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Video-Count: 1
Video-1: https://stpaul.granicus.com/player/clip/5895?view_id=37&redirect=true

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: https://stpaul.granicus.com/player/clip/5895?view_id=37&redirect=true):
- 00:00:01: Inaudible Introduction and Agenda Overview
- 00:07:34: Roll Call and Midpoint Audit Update Introduction
- 00:09:13: Effectiveness, Efficiency, and Compliance of Data Practices
- 00:11:48: Peer Review and Stakeholder Engagement Analysis
- 00:13:03: Concerns about Declining Survey Participation Rate
- 00:14:30: Interview Outcomes, Timeline, and Key Questions Reminder
- 00:17:30: Audit Report Question on Uncaptured Data Requests
- 00:19:14: Audit Scope and Report Recommendations Framing Explanation
- 00:20:27: Discussion on Helpful Audit Report Feedback
- 00:21:44: Ramsey County's Lack of Participation in the Study
- 00:23:01: New City Clerk's Involvement, Future Topic Selection Discussion
- 00:24:31: Audit Topic Selection and Comprehensive List Review
- 00:27:15: Clarification on Audit Frequency and Budget
- 00:28:51: Categories of Topics and Audit Criteria Concerns
- 00:30:26: Example of Auditable Topic: Intake Submission for Potholes
- 00:32:00: District Councils and Business Licensing Topics of Interest
- 00:34:42: Opioid Settlement Funds and Responses Discussion
- 00:35:55: Risk Assessment, Narrowing Down List and Other Avenues
- 00:37:26: Citywide Impact and Hard-to-Get Public Transparency
- 00:38:41: Core City Services Delivery and Long Workday Mention
- 00:40:11: Focus on Core Service Delivery Areas for Audits
- 00:41:49: Business Licensing, Street Maintenance, District Council Reform
- 00:43:23: College Savings Accounts and Funding Source Debate
- 00:46:17: Business Licensing, Financial Risks, and Lexington Potholes
- 00:47:54: The city does been a lot of money in these programs
- 00:49:13: Core City Services, New Directors, and Pilot Programs
- 00:50:24: Tallying Topic Mentions and Individual Interests
- 00:52:09: Sales Tax, Opioid Funds, and College Savings Opinions
- 00:54:02: Cybersecurity Mention and core services
- 00:55:45: District Council operations and public works
- 00:57:13: Interest in Performance and Discussions needed
- 00:58:34: Tax Base Growth and Core Service Delivery
- 01:01:04: Identifying Top Topics, a Subcommittee, and Risk Analysis
- 01:02:32: The Top Vote Getters are Street maintenance/potholes, district Council are college savings accounts
- 01:04:03: Three Audits in 18 Months and Budgetary Concerns
- 01:05:31: Agreement on Five Topics, Questions, and Risk Assessment
- 01:07:04: Tax Increment Financing vs. College Savings Debate
- 01:08:34: Public Interest in TIF and Internal Review Processes
- 01:11:00: Final Recommendation: Stick to Top 5 and Form Subcommittee
- 01:12:24: Budget Question: welders Bill Based on Hours


Part: 1

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Roll call, please. Coleman here. She and Johnson here. Commissioner door. Committee member do worth sorry. Committee member Donnelly. Committee member last here, committee member and he's going to be 15 minutes late. maker here. Welcome. Everyone has been a minute. So it's to see everyone back together had a good start to spring and we have 2 items our agenda today. The first one is a midpoint update from Dr. Brent, about our audit. The data practices study and then a a discussion I'm really looking forward to because we have a robust set of ideas choose from. Thank you to Mr. McVeigh and all of the engagement that he's been doing that to just start thinking about our next topic. So I will start, though, with Dr. will come up. led to be here. Thank you for just a few minutes. To be able to give you all As I said in the earlier today, we're getting close. We're really close. we are like teeth synthesis stewing in summary and analysis. So. >> I'll do a little bit o a reminder. I'll do a run through of each one of our sort of data tracks. Give you update. kind of give you a fresh and slightly to timeline with some expectations and it about how we're going to go back and force in the month of

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June, which just kind plan all ? >> A reminder we're talking about effectiveness, efficiency and compliance of the city's data practices request processes, tools, policy user experience. >> We're focusing on the use of the city's school, got Q A and just kind of alignment with the broader Data Practices Act in just a framework for the state. Hasn't that expectations about how we manage public data requests? So if you remember, we have kind 3 data collection tracks. The first one is this kind of document and system review. And so we have kind of got everything in hand and are in the midst of all of that since this is so I'll just give you all of that. All of the Web site rview the portal review the publicly available information. All of the training information, all of the aggregate aggregated sort of performance data. >> All of that record retention information and then the model policies and template from the state. So we've got all of that. We've had conversations with the state and that staff there about all of doing all of that kind of synthesis. And I think what Audrey have talked about is trying to keep that report reasonable and links and giving you a gigantic technical appendix that is

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going have lots of pieces and parts and materials. We've also asked everybody we've interviewed if everything that they're sending us, if we can just make it available to you all. So it will include as much as we possibly can of other jurisdictions pieces, parts, policies, processes, procedures, all that kind of stuff. So we're just going to stack that into the technical. Up next will include a summary of those documents inside the report itself. But we wanted to make sure we're giving it over to you. In case the city wants to use it in any way to model anything for the for the future. Also, all. It's the the League of Minnesota Cities is really excited about this report. so I think there are going to be some folks who we come back to you and say would you be open to the report the and the lease too other folks who are really curious about this body of because everybody we talked to was like who love to see this if the city would be comfortable with No. The transparency and accountability work of this body is top secret. Yeah. So excited that people were excited because it is kind as you all know, something that everybody grappling across the state. So >> literature and benchmarking. So we've done all that peer review love. We've looked at the audit

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steps that oppressive audits. We've looked at al the to have the documentation, everything that is publicly available for all of those jurisdictions that you pointed us to and so are in the midst of kind of the synthesis for that or completed the synthesis around kind of the peer reviewed literature and the great literature. And then for the stakeholder engagement, surveys are and we had all. But one o our department heads respond. >> And we did a we were pests. And then the portal survey is closed. >> We didn't get nearly the response that we expected, although I think maybe in hindsight it was exactly the response we would have expected. So we invited about 2000 portal users. Anybody in the state of Minnesota or in that address, it had the state of Minnesota and we had 31 folks responded so we will. The our analysis team a little of allies and what looks like right now. So we'll do the closed ended. And then we did have some kind of see it on fill in here. If you have particular sort of suggestions for alterations to the portal site. So we'll share that back to yu. it's yeah. Thank you so much. And I just wanted to be able to kind right-size that. So how do feel about that to Ponce, a

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city? >> I when I hear you know, I just want to know how to. and I mean, I think >> I will say broadly, we're watching survey participation plummet nationwide and it doesn't matter what we're taking. A look at from the topical vntage point, which is why I think you toward much more engaged ways of actually collecting the information. We spent a lot more time in community that we do doing surveys or surveys using kind of classic because, you know, folks, you know, we're doing frequently sort of you know, often a onetime submission or even repeated submission for the same kind of things through the portal system. And those repeated submission, folks have it down. You know, something that comes and says, hey, give me some feedback about a process that surprise that they and I were interested in actually giving us any kind of response We did do a first-round just for folks that from Saint Paul. since we didn't see in a sort of big number, that's when we expanded it to the hole state thinking, oh, get us more cell. I can't say that I'm super at what that number looks like. 3. >> I was hoping for but, you know, I'm glad 30 and I think we'll kind of get from it. What we can get from And then again, agrees that a look at

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all of the other sort of portal access systems that the other jurisdictions have. So we at least have a little bit of that. Look for you all >> To sort of do some reflection. yeah, but it's that I think what we're seeing from a survey response rate Vantage point. it's not wildly And I think folks have probably we have lots of contracts across the country, folks with unreasonable expectations for can't you get a 35 40 50% response rate. Absolutely. to have an unbelievable amount of money to incentivize response. So Yeah. Thank you so great, great, great Let's see interviews. We talks to everybody that you asked us to talk to except unfortunately, Ramsey County and we became a woodpecker past Ramsey County and John McCarthy became a woodpecker past with Ramsey County. And so we finally stops door, knocking door, knocked multiple staff. I think maybe they are just overwhelmed. So we're like, you know what? We're just going to stop. But we did talk to absolutely everybody else from county and the city vantage point which was fantastic. We talked to a league. We talked to the state so we had some great conversations the league. We talked to both their sort of legal team and their data team. So it was a great set of

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conversations. And again, everybody is interested in seeing us once it's available. So yeah. Updated timeline. We are in the midst of this draft development that it just little to the right. >> Audrey Nighthawk this morning. June 5th is the day we should have a full draft report available to you all are hoping to get it by the end of May. But we literally just had our last year, a section called last week. And so we're a little bit further. And there. >> Survey data is in the hand of our analysis team right now. So we just aren't as far ahead as we had hoped. we thought we present your June 16th, meaning if that's possible. We would love final edits from you all if we could get them since we do the kind of dance back and forth by the 19th so that we could then have the final final version to you. All on the 30 with all of those at is kind of included inside of it. So. So that's our sort of refresh. Refresh, refresh, refresh one. And then the rest of this presentation is just kind of the reminder of the key questions that you all have sen repeatedly. >> in the past. We have Yeah. year. get that. Yeah. We'll connect often about then figure out when we might have a date fans to come

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to council. Well, council. Great. So looks like they have some questions. Thank you so much. That presentation Mr. Don't okay to one department >> I can go find it. I only know been Yeah. I can tell you. Yeah, will find >> out to The teachers like And we I will say we're filming Method House, that we'd be repeated reminders to folks. We do everybody reminder specific providers to folks who didn't respond to mean and we did multiple rounds of reminders. gotten This is a little on the weights, but under certain 5 best practices. I do a lot Bedford Ques. And the city have abad habit. You ask for They don't have that. They don't respond with. No, we don't capture And a non response is not to support cancer. That us. Because saying we don't track that appropriate response seconds information. So I'd love to see sort of language either in my findings are best practices. How the city plans to handle that affect us requests when they don't capture that. person is asking for and leaves the person serve on the and make that request. And the city just ignores So I think that helpful to have a little nugget in report yeah, thank you. And I will the audit committee. >> Just When we set the

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boundaries on the So you will see the recommendations framed. Here's what we know from other jurisdictions hears things that we're observing there that might be helpful here. Here's things that we know from the literature that might be helpful here. The recommendations for this report will feel a little different. Then the recommendations you have seen before in part because we're trying to be really careful about how we put just around the scope So you will see that language feel a little different. It's not going to be like and Greg, you need to be doing so in it's going you know, feel more like if not the best practice suggests this kind in a pattern. Thank you. Thank you for the question. Questions. Other questions. All right. So it sounds like we're going to be on a tight timeline. We'll have the draft report June 5th. We will meet on June 16th. You will want be back on June 19th. So I would have a family. read the report in June 5th come to that 16th meeting not seen the first time that prepared to talk about so that we just have come together that back to you by the 19th, the stats. >> then also just as a a new commissioner here, I just wondering kind of feedback is helpful. Just so looking at.

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That's what should we taking just my first time, some of the report said and just some of the we're here said just curious what is. >> Helpful. Feedback over says, you know what, maybe is cranking here, but not necessarily is helpful. Yeah, I mean, I think we're particularly interested in feedback that is going to shape the report to be as useful to you as possible. So, you know, we need recommendations that are a little more pointed. You know, I need a little more detail and the data collection here. Can you pull the side of the technical You know, it's there. So something else that you learn from these particular jurisdictions or is there something else from this in a peer reviewer, great literature, kind you know, sort of pushing us to take a little bit more in a particular place or when I look at the questions you know, I still feel like I need a deeper level answer I would say less so in copy pieces like that or because when you see the draft, we're going to take yur at its back and they were going run it through a really deep version of copy editing our side. So we sort of do that kind of dance back in force. But I would say that it's there about your use because this is really going to end up in me. And Greg's

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hands is going to end up legal teams hands to really make some decisions about, you know, do we want to think differently about the tool that we're using, that we want to think differently about policies and practices we want to put in place. We want to think differently about staff training that we want to think differently about, you know, other evolutions that we want to make. So if you want to point this team. You want this report to be the 8th hole point this team. So I think it's kind house anything that would help shape that if you want us to, you know, keep pulling out those things, right. But if it's a those kinds of things and it would be absolutely fabulous feedback. Thank Yeah, yeah. Yes, thank >> I know you said to take a hard to get response from Ramsey County, but that's a big county. So concerned about. >> I mean, John, give us multiple people. We people. We emailed multiple people. >> We talked to head up and we talked to Duluth. We talked to Bloomington. We talked to Minneapolis. So talked to a number of jurisdictions. So I'm not as worried about not Ramsey, especially since we have had a pen and we have Minneapolis, you know, and we have, you know, a couple of other bigger. Cities. So yeah,

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and I think also because we talked a of Minnesota cities and they have a sense for kind of what's happening across the state talk to the state. >> So I do feel like we've got You know, what is everybody up to kind of So I think I don't think we're feeling like we haven't talked to enough other kind of communities about And I think John was probably as frustrated as we so and that that's not a judgment. I mean, I think we. Fancy in't staff rebuild hiring? You know, they are. And then a Volusia in period right now. And I think that's fantastic. So opportunity for them. You know, I think if you're open to kind of sharing, I do think one of things we say back to them is, hey, here's the report. Even though we didn't hear from you. We look forward to that future partnership that you're going to have with the city of Saint Paul. Just as a way represent statement as to how and should do a request to get the answers that I only partly just that is super frustrating. Us tns comments. All right. I think our appetites are sufficiently what to for the final report. So thank you so much, Doctor Brett. one just slight point of order. We do have a new city since you began And I think she and a hotel under should definitely seeing a draft of this as well. Because

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as you as we think about who is going to want to make the most use of this, definitely going to be are people clerk side mayor's office. Okay. Also, yet fantastic. All right. Thank you so much. see you All right. Sounds good. Thank you. Hear from the meantime. Yes, thank you. So we are going to pivot and I'm gonna look staying and merit to take close notes of the next conversation. Because we're gonna definitely need to make sure we capture. >> But I think it's going to be it very robust discussion. And I want to make sure know where landing so. need to start thinking about our topic for next. The it what we are hoping to do is to actually land on 2 topics that would so that we're not constantly in a cycle topic selections. So we have cut our next year, even though we're in almost June. next 12 months worth of auditing. If we want to land on 2. I think we are hoping to eventually send 3 possibilities to the City Council of which they would choose to. So we would have kind of 3 recommended topics and they would choose their 2 favorite. And then, you know, we can decide if you want to land on 3 topics recommend how many topics do we want to put through our risk analysis? Essentially, what we're doing now is we're and a very high

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level conversation about that happens. We have in front of us included in that conversation will be. It is all the topics we should consider or do we want to try to cast a net to get more topics in this list? If we're ready, We will, if we can. If we have consensus try to get down to a certain number of topics that seem to have interest, want to have inordinate number of those because those would be the topics that we've been then. Put through this risk analysis and then we would come back and look at the risk analysis of those and figure out which 3 we want to recommend to move forward so that's everything I'm hoping we can do that memo we have in front of us. I mean, just something. So the memo is from Mr. McVeigh and he did a ton of work on this and he is coming and you will be a speech in more detail. He was substitute teaching all day and school had like scheduling snafu. And late basically summarizing. Not only what we heard back people who the completed our survey, but also all of the different board members and staff in different district councils that he's been talking to her time so this is sort of the most comprehensive list. I think we have right now. And that's what I'm hoping we can do is again. High level about what stood out to you from

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this. Also talk about what whether or not you think we need to try to cast the for topics and then see where we land Mr. just a quick clarifying question. Are you saying? >> We would do to audits and 12 month period. of and you could sort of make this go. A little tighter. Probably some of the topics yet. And we have been doing to wish a They have a $50,000 budget and Wilder has generally been able to do to. 25,000 are audits. >> If we ever had like massive one Le Piden the budget 2. Like, oh, we haven't ever done is chosen to So we kind of constant choosing cycle. Back session from start recognize the 3 people are totally new to process. And I don't want to assume any prior knowledge. Help folks have had some time to look at this in advance. There isn't a great way present Because its list of topics. So I guess I would just look to the group to see. What topics are of the greatest interest based on what you saw or general. Facts about what's in front us. Once make one comment. Yes, I think what I would like if you look at it picks their topics, they have categories. And so there's like things they have to do by statute. >> And then things to kind of interested in that fit at my my come of being maybe next time we can work on some

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categorizing some of these because some of these are. Things to talk about, but not a fit for audit. And I think this list could be paired down dramatically and the questions and that criteria that you need to fit audit I think is missing here. So. We can start begin little down. But I would really, really highly suggest that we get really detailed into the scope. The question. More so than what topic? Because you need to good. To have a good >> It couldn't agree and I think one of the downsides of gathering process that we have is it's very one of the plus side and down to is it's very community-driven. Explaining any setting in any amount of time. To community members. What an odd it's like is or isn't and what question is, it appropriate for an audit is something we haven't yet? Cracked the nut on. So I think you're right. You're 100% right. What we're seeing here is sort of things that people are generally interest, an inner have questions about many of which don't. And the lending themselves to being a real topic. Thank you for example of what are you okay. So like? You can have a big topic of potholes. >> The audit would be. When I as a resident have to notify the city of a pothole, I submit email. Now you're on. It would actually be that

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process of the e-mail submission process. And that's like what you want on it. And it's a great thing on it because everyone hates potholes, bunch of them. And just clear like that. Sort of how you think these big things and sort get down into this. So lake. Intake, submission process for potholes would be like a good fit. The topic make sense okay. Which think would be a good topic. We wanted think of something. seeing and then to Johnson. But I just want to indicate that this is the first kind of gathering all all. >> Survey responses and off to So it's pretty long you can feel overwhelming. But the risk aalysis that share maker mentioned earlier as well. We will identify. >> It topic that meets our criteria for to So that's one of the reasons why we do this because we want we don't want to just ignore that was And that's why Mr. They spent quite a bit of time detect categorizing to defend. Talk to If that's helpful. >> And just a procedural point, typically just bring topics. But we interview that we thought were of interest or adjusts. Is that we're okay. Yeah. And looking to folks like say what hear interest to you as you enter it and if there are things that you're interested I mean, we all have our own where knowledge of

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things in the with all different person, potholes recently, I'm sure we can bring those into. We don't have to be limits. Because of all. sorry. As a follow-up, I was just kind there's a few. There was a few things that as I was going I was like, okay, well, maybe how it's written here to it. >> He tweaked a little when it comes to that being credible. A lot of the potential to be something that I think we become cat. There was a few fun here district councils and that actually caught my attention as well in part because of the a lot of the conversations that have come up around district councils, including like that we have funded. We've made some changes internally, but also just the structure. We have 17 district councils in the city. You know that number and the overall effectiveness and responsiveness we've recently gotten and received data regarding, you know, updates and population population size, you know, the staff and makeup of them. Some district councils have any record directors on not just the overall. He said that I I wasn't sure where I know that it was listed as 1, 0, that one of the topics maybe like District Council reform. But I think just kind in piece could potentially be a topic of something that the city is

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funded for many, many years? Which might be a tool. I think one of the other topics that I thought timely and what we've already been doing. surrounds the business licensing topic and I think just like the process and the procedure overall of some of our programs within Department of Safety inspections. So like I thought 6, 7, were of interest like that building called pensions and the business licensing only because of the I saw an avenue for maybe. Going to that process through the assigned. Seen with that look like. I know on the east side we have there was interest in the lead line replacement and I think it's in part really trying to understand like where the project is, how effective it than what what but it would be needed to actually accomplish all of the pieces. And I just noted that several inside district ounces of requests that that's I thought I would bring that up as well. And I have more. But I'll stop there. Those were like 3 initially that have jumped out at me of potential things that. Could could these spaces pole and then the opioid settlement funds. But I wasn't sure what That one I think eventually will be an important piece. But I just don't no, that's one that I feel like. I think people are more so interested in what

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come of that was versus maybe an audit of them currently because there isn't a lot of uses. But I think there's a I think one of the piece that could be loked at as our opioid response thus far in the city. And so, you know, there's the finds itself that we've received, but we've been responding to you know, to open. We've had of opioid response out for years. And I think just being able to look at just the overall departments that are involved in that could warrant. Response beyond just looking at the funding we recently received in tow. When I read the kind of right up on that, it was like possibly right. But like also, there's been a D fr the for overall dive in the response at the city to opioids. Multiple multiple departments will be involved in that. So really just understanding what the city would be doing there could and how effective it is, what things are working. The kind of goes back to when we had, you know, we have different presentations from the police department and from fire about their responses even the increase. So back those in my initial Thank you so much. Destruction as some that common such acre just made for the benefit the people. knew. You mention the risk assessment that it sounds like we're doing this time is kind

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of narrowing down a list and then we put it through a second process. The risk assessment, which I think some of the concerns expressed about would this be good thought it Department be responsive. Potentially ws me see moving of the need. All those times. Just trying to recall the elements of the risk assessment off the top of my head. I can remember them all, but I think that's part of what gets too so if you see a topic area. I like that. There's kind of the proposed scope. But to your point, don't you know, there's not kind of to detectives late out of line point questions. Are we trying to answer? I think. That would be great. But this is us. Amazing to have 15 topics can follow. This is I think we're continuously improving like this since my time on this committee, I think has been the most kind of robust list w probably had to choose from. So good. Start. Thank >> Thank A couple thoughts. One is just sort of things that I'm considering when choosing a topic. obvious. Incredible to have this list. And I know. for a lot of these conversations, a lot of them are coming out of District council Ford meetings. think it's really helpful, but also trying to look at these with an eye to what ese are we hearing residents recognizing

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that district councils that are necessarily reflective of the entire community all the time. So that's one thing that I was looking for as through this list. So impact, what what are topics that have citywide impact or have a significant impact on? They're a critical mass of residence or really our ability to. Operator city in a major way. So that's one factor for And obviously what makes that audit. And there's another piece that I wanted to mention, which percent no blinking just what? What information may be harder to get through other avenues. I think some of the topics that a recent here are really, really important to have a public transparency it around and there might be other venues to get there. I think some of these are information topics that can really hard to get that for the public. And that to me could make him a potentially topic for an audit where what allows us to begin a little bit deeper the week and other forms. So those are a couple things that I had in mind that said and Cher comes when 6, 7, are just ideas things that we hear about all the time is this ice saying building code Dsi. >> Cannot overstate how often that comes up. So both of those are particular interest to me.

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Number 14. Public works and snow removal to aso, but just seems like certainly talking like or city services that is. >> Like potholes, a very good and one. the last to it marked down where 41. Which test. I would say we have all the and that there I will say that summer feel like they're potentially other was having a conversation. But to get into the real needs could make some fair. And then the final one that I had. My just 46, which is that student safety. ? >> I want to make sure too. The author of this entire 40 us Mr. thank you so much for credible work on this coming from a bsy day teaching. We just started to dive. And we one of the things we're talking about a little bit is that these are not get topics. They are much higher level than that because, you know, and we're kind of talking about how to get from the level of topic that community members, district council members might suggest down to the level of specificity and objectives that we need for. Not it. And then we started talking about what is interesting to us here. So I don't you want to say anything about this or about that question or about anything related to this. But I want to give you the FARC since this is really your work product and we're very grateful. Happy

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to do it. I am but a servant of the taxpayer hope >> all I have in terms of commentary is that. What I kept hearing over and over again from residents at these being 3rd district councils and also from folks that reaching out to be outside District Council contacts has been. Really focusing on core service delivery as a focus for any. audit topics. We may ultimately. Find comb. Maybe he try to narrow down. The more usable for Obviously someone like Ron and it was really hard actually translating some of the issues that brought to us. During our town halls translate to something that is usable product that we can actually act So can gauge Mont. With the help of our consultants because people have a lot of really great ideas. I will say that as well. But my focus really I implore the committee. To really look at core services and Billy areas for we have really high risk. buy that is. Where there are. >> Ongoing issues that we have a city that relate to our responsibilities under either city ordinance or seat statute. And for certain programs, maybe even federal law. That scandal messy right now with that, there's some ongoing changes in terms of policy from the federal government. So. Public safety

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public works. Public health, things of that nature. That's what I would suggest Consider when it's delivering its topics. So the beauty of all this is that we are independent body so we can make recommendations to full council. must be so please. That's all I have And Madam Chair, thanks so much. Faster topics that came up that were of interest size would have the chair up a chair. Do you think Councilman had a lot of the same. Topics my colleague switch. That's So I aso have business licensing and business code I wrote instead of snow falling had street maintenance activities. Lately. I haven't really fixated not just on potholes, but on the work that we do or don't do usually don't to on maintaining. Our infrastructure investments that we've made recently. So we talk a lot about like our streets are falling apart because they have generations of deferred maintenance. But then we go in and we reconstruct a street in our lifetimes. In my time of the council. And then that little scene where the asphalt just overlaps and isn't even really seem at first. The next season is are packed. And then the next season is like a crack. And now like I'm on side, which is done 9 years ago is a crevasse but for a little bit of coding

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are filling earlier on like that fully reconstructed street could still look like brand new street. And it is a Granite Street in like. terms of street life. But it's falling apart because Minnesota that smart Israel is needed at District Council reform as well. college savings accounts and Mr. Donnelly decided recently and worth. I think that. But and this is a good example where I think maybe we should decide like. It might be that the problem with some of the like program programs is that they're very juicy and out of the ball. They're not basic services. So we may want to just decide that we're not gonna even audit. to see pilot programs because we really want to focus on the core services. But I put as well. This just all in on pieces around the program surge, you see, I also think what they're not they're funded through taxpayer dollars matter and my level of care organization, I think we have different grant funded opportunities. >> And the distinction that that some of the things, Melissa, that some are funded by external resources, other find a tax dollars. And so just when I thought about that, when you know what I thought about the cars, leaving savings accounts, that is where ended up just like is this fund and the general fund

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is it's funded through taxpayer dollars and maybe somewhere along the lines you could probably make the make the argument that it's coming from the government wants shape or form. There might be some where that we're paying for it, right. But I think on the local level, there's a certain things that I couldn't. It was a council member. There are certain things that when it's funded through the general finer their own funding from our levee, we have a little bit the ability to react and respond to depending on the findings of the report are. If you do that, I did with you know, the savings account. I'm not sure what we would change on our into like dress that person's like. 6, 7, or even just like I also was looking for a way that the city effectively respond to the findings. So that's us. I'm not sure what the outcomes of of the college savings accounts for says whether or not we do them. But the funding source was something that ultimately lead to be put my short list. So I also I guess I had the college state savings account. >> Only because they know when we had the mayor here, that something that she was. Really interested in you know, I I think we also have to listen to, you know, where some of the questions are coming from. Now, whether or not it's honorable, I we have to put it through. Kind of a

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catastrophe. Idid have I also had 6, 7, business licensing >> and the building But I was looking at a these more financial risk, which is 10 to one my land. So. Some of went over just bcause they were not. They didn't appear to have a financial risks. Mr. Darling, OK quickly at the college savings accounts, there's a big loud mouth who made a big stink that this program wasn't living up to the standards. That was me. And the truth is healthy centers every day. Get a job and never heard one person DeJesus. But they do talk about jobs and bills. And the city does been a lot of money in these programs. Millions and millions and millions of dollars. And it's not helping Siders. And Ithink someone needs to stand up and say we're not doing these things. Well be doing that. That was my point. Potholes quickly. You don't have to pick it, but my kids in your words, it's Lexington and Thomas. it's a cool place. The entire Elliott's full female city. And first of all, e-mail in the city is 2005 tech. It not being rude, but that's like watching DVD for movie. You can use Clyde today and get a new system up in a week. And so we have 2005 tech want to even of the city they were played. But they we don't prioritize non. Are on main roads? And so we so daycares

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parents and children and grand parents and educators in one of the poorest parts of our city. Potholes ae prioritized and it's small child care business. That's a perfect topic for an audit. That same were not meeting the needs of children and our small businesses and a municipal services of 20 years behind where they need to be and it would be a pretty easy audit to be able to serve, say hear the findings of best practices in municipalities. They're doing this differently. Here are the resources need to make sure tat our childcare still have huge holes in there and front That's right. Sarah came potholes. And that's way bt CSA. I let it go because the data is there. It's whether the city wants to take it in act on it or That's where So just to clarify, Mister Donnelly, I >> first cousins, the county saying it doesn't really need an audit because the data are great And by the way, we did reach out to the mayor's office to try to get any further of topics that came to her mind after she was with us and didn't hear anything back. But I will say just from how she has generally been spending her time, she's been speaking. I know the business being open for business is something that is very important to her. So it sounds like a lot of us are kind of

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zeroing in on core city services in general. >> So nothing we've said yet has struck me as something that. Would be a nonstarter for her. I also we used to have this criterion in our risk analysis that had to do change recently. So something it just changed or something was being studied. So, for example, snow removal. We have a pilot program right now for like alternate side parking. didn't want did something that was maybe about to be changed or had just been changed. I still think that's probably true. But I think I an opportunity when there is a certain kind of change specifically when a new directors being appointed of a department which is happening a lot right now, especially like, for example, in there's a new director man where an audit actually be even more welcome and more germane them. >> Telling someone who's been doing it on time. you haven't been doing this the we recommend and of course, we want al of our existing department directors and staff to know tat this is always non judgmental, non-critical in support of are critical, but support of critical. sometimes when a new person comes and it just is received in a different way and might be valued in a different way. So that might be something we want to keep in mind as we

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choose a topic in the department that early too, as well. A lot of for what I heard is business licensing. 4 times code functions for temps 2 minutes activities. If you include potholes twice, District Council reform twice, college savings accounts twice and tip twice. Opioid settlement dollars. One snow removal once investors safety once. But I have not heard everybody's interests. didn't share chair knickers. So I can talk through kind of. So I. >> Shows 9 different ones. And don't want to hear all 9. We do. Yeah. some comments. So my thinking I'm kind of interested in so and how. Certain monies have been spent. So like the one percent sales tax but I'm also thinking like, is this the best way is the audit the best way to get at the information? I don't call like. Is there something already underway to share all this is how we spend this new one percent. Tax or when an audit be welcome that that's not otherwise going to happen. So that was on my mind. I like looking at, OK, this is new taxes isn't meeting the goals of why we wanted to add it in the first place. The opioid settlement funds. How are those funds being used just from my experience and my job. I've seen that it's it's kind of difficult because you don't know when the money is coming

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in. And so being able to plan my understanding is that the settlement is coming a long period of time. But it's when plaintiffs are no, the defendants want to pay it. So you're not getting may be on a regular basis. It's kind of when works for them to pay the money. And so it can be hard to plan and do programming. So kind of it could benefit from looking at that like how is that being handled? And is and effective use of the money? I did like the college Saint Paul idea because it's partnering with the mayor. But if there is data that already exists, it makes sense. Looking at that and seeing with this audit, look something that doesn't, you know, and today to that doesn't already exist or would it be repeating that same thing? But I did choose so to go through kind of my list. Number one arts programs to see. How are how's that money being divided or? Being spent? Park infrastructure improvements. S that's an example of the one percent taxes kind of. Is that meeting the goals of the EU sports programs. Number 11, the line replacements. Number 12, Skyway is. 14, the streets and highways that's been mentioned. So I guess, the pothole one snow removal. And then number. 21, what was that? One the District Council reform? So I live in the

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Lexington him one. Neighborhood. And that's been an issue for us. You know, how do we work with Union Park? Because I guess Lexington from my understanding is a holdover from. The previous system when there are more numerous and to tease and then Union Park came along and it's never really gelled. I don't think, you know. So looking at it, I think make sense. 25, that's the college savings one. And then. The last one 30. The opioid settlement. ? think the only person we haven't heard Mr. Mackay. >> In trms of specific Tufts. To be honest, I don't have very strong feelings towards any one topic. I will say. Meeting with our district councils. There was this. They're going to have some bias towards a little bit. Bt there was a considerable amount of mentioned regarding District Council operations and and whether the current system has to sign is actually working very well or 50's to be improved. What also came up a lot like every single meeting Anything related to function of public works. Any act to be performed by public especially the streets. I think that's people's minds just because of our deferred maintenance that we've been slowly chipping away But it's so significant issues. Cybersecurity was another one

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that was mentioned periodically. Really getting, at course services. A lot of folks are just really wanting the. I really love to audit committee making sure that we are looking at. Things, whether it's public safety, her parks and or anything that nature. And we do a lot as a city does meet that standard. Of course, service slippery and we're cash strapped as well. So looking at where we can belief provide value for taxpayer money and things are going well, where they are to try to make ministration. I think that's important. But in terms of actual specific topics, I'm not really feeling strongly one way or another. I felt my role throughout this process has really facilitate the public, can bring all this information to the committee so we can all have a discussion and make decisions based off of that. So I will respect the decision is made by the topics. But you make at the I think the sheer quantity of topics that we've received this year, there is a lot of people they're learning. But what we do for the very first time and conversations with district councils with the president set to come to our meetings and they really interest in the work that we do. They want to see us doing more. And I think in the long term, I think work that while there, what they do for us is

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wonderful. I think going have a relationship with them for a very long time. I do think that in the foreseeable future, we need to bring staff to this committee and actually have an office that reports the council through this committee. To do our work over time because there's a sheer amount of clearly there's a lot of interest in terms of performance on we don't have the capacity as a city for Compare to. Piers of similar cities our size or even like over Minneapolis. So and there's also a lot of issues have come to my attention attending district councils that. We don't have the capacity currently to address because state relate to matters. Concern. Potential violations of state satute regarding city operations I think will be to have discussion. And I'm not sure if this is the form to have discussions and bring these matters the attention, the state auditor's office, but these are matters that need to be addressing at some point as So that is my. My rant. just one perfect question. When he said that they would be. He said Labor had district councils would feel about the topic of district Council reform being But what did you say that that that they have natural inclination towards that because they're interested party?

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But they have an inclination toward that being on that. Yes, those to diversion they're overwhelming support. >> All of the district councils. You have what I listed there that actually supported that. That just came up from over and over again, like from District Council board members and those 2 fences like all bring that to the attention of the committee. Thank 2 thoughts. The first is some this conversation thinking about the mayor's address thinking what storms table thinking about for services and also thinking about how what many of the topics come that back to the fact that the city needs to be able that we we don't have enough money to do all the things that we want to do. Any Thinking about public works the problems that public works. Budget. He's nt all. There is not large enough for a city of this size. So really thinking about. And same thinking a lot of things that thinking about. A lot of things think about how we have to it's coming up in the next year. I would put in a plug for doing one of those on a topic that is about core services and it relates to tax base growth. I think that 6 feels like a really obvious into their it seems like that was issued have become

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interest. That's business licensing, really thinking about making it easier to do business in the city. that has so many benefits. Second alignment between the council, the mayor's office. So I it just seems like that could be very worthwhile. And if we did that, I would do a strong plug for the second audit in this whole cycle to be something that really looks that how are services being delivered to the residents currently, even though we all business licensing is very important for average person in the city of Saint Paul. That is not something that they're doing on a daily basis, but they are interacting with public works department. They are interacting with parks. They are interacting with whole host of our other departments. So I don't have strong feelings what that second one would be. But that could be one way for us to think about how to make this decision. Thanks for coming. I really that's really interesting. So one that's more about. A long-term solution to the ultimate problem of not having enough tax base and enough revenue. And then another one about what we would do if we. Yes, okay. Variance. With 5 minutes left. I. I want identify this of the topics that seem like they're rising to the top. And my suggestion would be that if we can agree

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on. >> 5 to 6 of these that we would designate a subcommittee and I wuld definitely recommend still worth Mr. Last or because they did last time they were fantastic. >> Maybe anybody can volunteer sorry, to take those broad topics, draft specific, get them into sort of auditable farm in terms of specific questions. Pacific specific outcomes that we might ask for from an audit and then to do the risk analysis on those, which we would then. Review when we next come back together. And if that seems like too tall, an order for June, we could wait until July, especially because in June we're going to be receiving that full report from while there, which I expect will take our whole time together. So that would be keep that in mind as might like proposal for what we do with us. But it sounds like what's rising to the top is and we have to decide if these are the same or different, the business licensing and business code functions 2 separate things are both getting a lot o attention, street maintenance activities and potholes District Council reform and college savings accounts and sort of that. The top vote getters, if you will. And that's topics. And could probably be broken up into like. Maybe more than that

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specific questions. But and that you will have many research questions that can be part any of those topics are due to practices currently. I think we have 12 research questions that topic. Maybe you can correct me on that. I don't recall top of my head. Time call its of it is not apartment. There's like, yeah, 20, I could kind get that we could sense. >> One of was filed against Yep. I got business licensing isn't licensed business code functions? Stream in activities. Slash potholes because in there. But potholes was called that specifically by certain cranky constituent. District Council are Street maintenance and potholes kind of mentality going up. District council reform and college savings accounts. So I would be I was one of the votes for college savings accounts. That brings it up to where the I am somewhat compelled by what Mister Donnelly is pointing out about the fact that this may just be a situation where we I mean, metimes we have the data and audit is what's needed to like. I trust the data and build. The case for again. Something. And currently the data we have line and you can tell your sources is from your email. So it's possible that we still want to. Put more of a case, find that. And I'm also suede buy the argument

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that this may be something that it's just. It's not working. We could easily see that county to to see that. And then it's just matter of political will is whether or not we continue program. Company on its are we doing for? 2026? Inc for at this. We're basically starting June or July, most likely the next topic. Yeah. Sorry. Served as the backup. We we want to choose to. They will not be completed in 2026. But what kind of choose to serve a 12 month. worth about it, even though that will take us into next year. Is it possible that we could 3rd into this cohort? You think because of the fact that we are starting later this I'm not sure where we are with her. My Appropriation the Audit committee's program budget. But or is that not? will likely only have 50,000 for next year as Is my guess. We're looking at a significant. Check picture dissipate. I checked the need to study business yes for Preble County. Not have enough for that. So you don't think that whatever we have unencumbered for this year? Well, not carry over into next year that we could still use it will it next year. I think we're putting to still do an audit this year and then another at this year and then another at it in the beginning of 20. So technically hearing.

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3 between the next 18 months in the next 18? Yes, yes. Okay. Okay. Are you saying maybe we choose 3? That gets us to the end of 27? We could don't think that as well. It would be nice to get an actual a calendar schedule We will get there and have the 2 at beginning of every year. Why do we do Because we can always land. can choose how many want to land on afterwards. folks are okay with those 5 that I mentioned. The narrow down through that then get the specific question strapped to them. The risk analysis done we have a rubric for risk analysis that we what we can send out 7 knows what we are And then we look at that in July and make a decision about some number that we want to on to the city council recommended. Does that sound like a thing? Heads nodding? It's just I have a question about >> Not to put her into. Can you remind again how much college savings? How votes? 3? And 10 so bad. Tax increment financing does have a significant impact on tax base maybe worthwhile considering that as well. Virus and in college savings them cousins accounts of tide. So I mean, here's I'm saying is I feel that there's other week. There's a lot of different avenues for that have peace. But I I did have them mower parity lists the

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like. >> But it made the list of requests savings But, you know, he said that one as well sections that are I don't to Add in tax increment financing as it happened. There's so many rigorous processes, rent tax income and confined our existing. >> do all this if not for this, this this exists all the time. And so it's like. we can continue the conversation. But it's there's not an absence process there. And there's not an absence of data and the TIF and it's very subjective at the end of the day, whether you think it makes sense or not. So I would say like. For media, like hard to understand what you're really going on it, that's going to have sort of a clear and point, particularly when you have so much data on the financial side that shows the and the end of day, if you want to. To test for the Grand inventory project or not. It comes down to whether you think it's a good If you're not in the space don't know. I just don't see too. If like double topic. But that's up to the the team. guess is likable to share that. A lot of our Tiffany analysis as a process happens internally as well. And while there is a criteria, there is a process when it is internal amongst staff, including internal amongst committees internal amongst for review. I

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think there's been a lot of public interest and that overall process and also see the audit looking at how we are currently handling our own financing, as I say, the but I think when you're looking at bad, that's at least how I envisioned it, which involves a lot of cooperation with our planning economic development department. But, you know, I think so much of our current process maybe to be maybe to an external audience can be difficult to really kind of comprehend. Despite multiple every year. for some patients with the housing redevelopment Authority, multiple different avenues which we share that information. You know, there there could be elements of it that are just both process and effectiveness and how we review it. And if we have appropriate staffing forward. If you have also just the review process that's keeping up with what the rest of you know, rest of our communities in the region are doing as well. Think Paul is. Is always calm, wind and the state the so we won't be looking at like whether we, you know where where we should be, that something that we've continued to maintain. But when you look at it, know why there are some differences that may be notable. But I just know that also in community, there's been a lot of competition surrounding

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tiff. And so this body, you know, always brings a 3rd party to look at something. So there might be a credible. All non, you know, is not the city just doing. It's not an external. group of folks just doing it. It's you know, something that we would. So said I hear you on that, you know, as far as process and procedures. But that's why it rose kind on on my think it's it's different in the city says that versus when there's audit that actually goes through and affirms the process and procedures that we currently use box that through the public eye has a different lens some of the some of the pieces I also think are really important for folks to understand that when they look at it because not everyone knows the complexities of the average person just truly may not talk about as much, but it's big all have thing that people see millions go into a project, not fully understanding the why. So that's something that for me was mre like. >> Could be an educational, could be helpful for. But definitely something that again didn't rise to top of my list, but he's definitely made it to like the top. You thanks but didn't rise to be notable because I think there are other places that we could directly influence.

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So given 5 minutes over and I really appreciate this exchange. I think and recommend is that we do stick to the original 5. We can only choose 2 or 3 and we don't lose the other topics. We just can also use. Look at them at another time I also think there's a question in my mind as to whether Wilders is amazing partner. They've been clear that there might be some topics that are extremely specialized, that they would not be able to handle their own would need outside help. And I think might actually be in one of those. So if we to do it well, so I think for now, I would just let's look at that top 5. And then they can ask that folks who are willing to be part o a smaller subset of people, too. To the subcommittee work let know if you're interested either right now as you leave or by the end of the week so we can get back together and we will be back in June for the final report July for this. More detailed analysis. Is there anything else folks feel like has to happen between now and July to be able to move forward here? Just have a logistical question story because and you budget is 50,000. The contract with welders select they don't go over. 25,000 per. So like this it's gone longer pain. is enough expense, it's >> Walter, Bill based on their

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hours and staff involvement. So it's not always going be 25 K per study. It could be 25 or 30. >> So their first that he didn't use the full 25 K so they were able able to use 3 major, which is about 30 K Tiffany Shell. And 50,000, all people be on which we are now. On the other hand, why? Could i into the 2026? Like? 50 kep budget for 30 this year so we could with the smaller budget, which could just mean that we it takes longer. Tell that next Sunday because we need to. >> Going to 27 when we have the money to finish So, yeah, that's that's a great question. Yeah. Okay. With that. We're over time. I apologize to everyone for getting that I hate to and late. But with that