It's about her over to me. They can to reporting. I want to just say right off the bat, you'll kind of see that. We shifted topics around for our committee here. Plan, I doing our best to always make sure we guess because ahead of time and also making a call on, do we need more time for a certain topic for bringing in front of the committee? And the think that right now it's a really busy time for departments. They're preparing for the trasande. So just wanted to ask for your continued flexibility as we topics around. And really excited for topic today. There's been a lot of preparation done behind it for overtime and vacancy reporting just for context. This was a really big hot topic that came up, especially in our last
budget season last year and it be made it really clear that having regular reporting on these 2 topics was something that was really important to the council. And there has been interest in making sure that get into our administrative code is falling there. Many benefits to that. And our director, Jay, we'll MISS. We'll be covering that today. I I want to start off by saying that Fordham, today's presentation. The goal is to understand how the city council can have reporting as part of our code to hlp us make informed decisions on the budget. I want to be really clear that today's presentation and discussion does that does not include a final ordinance language you'll see in front of us that there is definitely which here, though, is fr Don. We will not voting on it today after decide discussion of we
will continue to get department feedback and from from departments. But also from all of you till some of this might look really fun with the Mueller because ploy dirty circled around, especially the temple that we had around the over time reporting. And we also send it out yesterday. And this is really a space for us have more discussion about it. But I also want to give director j will MISS A chance to be able to present on this. And he's put a lot of work into this, you know, ever since budget season from last year, so day. Want thank you for all of your hard work on this and really making sure that graincorp rating feedback and input from the council here. And that language really reflects the reason why we even feel this
is a significant topic to us in the first place. Also, thank you to plot u n and our city Attorney Theresa, start of for all of your guidance on this. And so with that, I will. Turn things over to you. Dr All right. Thank you. Chair Yang and House members. Thank you for having here today. So as discussed, I'm here today walk us through a draft ordinance proposal. So we'll just jump right in. So here's overview of the presentation. Briefly discuss the draft ordinance, has been included as an attachment online and is also available here Chambers. And then we're go through the legal authority for the ordinance. That's make the attorneys I'm not an attorney, but you know, we'll cover that in more detail as as we go
through in terms of the the charter authority and 3rd part is where we go over. Alright, provide a summary of reporting The first one, a quarterly vacancy report and then the second one, a quarterly public safety overtime report. So beginning with the ordinance over the years. So at a high level, what this does is requires reporting by amending the administrative code, adding a new chapter 15 chapters one through 14. I really outline and establish the department's the operations procedures within it. This would add a new chapter within the administrative code under title one. you know, backing up, what is the administration administrative code in the first place? It's basically the operating manual of the
city. It Operation Allies charter sets the foundation, the administration and Ministry of Code. Sets really high level governance framework that the mayor and the administration operate within so it includes procedures reporting requirements and also organizational structures. So this is different from the legislative code which often we deal with as it relates to public and external to the administrative code. Israeli internal the legislative code is external. As you'll see the legal basis for this as outlined the draft is really detailed in the whereas clauses you'll fnd in lines 7 through 15. And so the
first is Section 4.1 which outlines the council's legislative authority. The second indicates that administrative actions require an ordinance. So basically defining. You know that rules around administrative actions that are set forth legislative. We require ordinance into to be effective. Section 6.1, 2 - states that all ordinances must be cut codified in the administrative code and ten Section 11.1 is separate. That's within chair of the chapter on taxation. And there is data says councils, fraud, financial oversight Authority within the city. More detailed language is actually included in the ordinance or in the law was causing this. And ten as I
mentioned earlier, really want to highlight that this is draft legislation. So it's not yet been introduced. This is for discussion purposes and it is pending Cho's naval review on again as mention and not that her niece. You know, this is the way home, you know, the foundation is aligned for the lead in But again. Cao has final say over these matters. Section one is really the whereas clauses of the language detail in lines, 7, 3, 30 and then Section 2 is the summary or or the the ordinance language. And that's on page 2 beginning and section. 35. So the first one is new section within chapter 15, 15, 0, one which establishes budgetary
reporting requirements for personnel vacancies. The inflammation implementation timeline would occur throughout the remainder of this year and begin on JANUARY. First 2026. Department would be human resources and it covers full-time budgeted. Non appointment non temporary roles by that. We mean, you know, full-time position Ft. Budgeted. There's actually a budget amount associated with the non appointment. It's not appointed role. And then non temporary non season off. So, you know, doesn't include seasonal public works employees or seasonal parks and recreation employees or any of the other temporary
roles within the city. And then as you'll see in lines, 41 through 44, cover or the the elements of the report, so to speak. And 45 to 46 covers that, you know how it must be submitted to the mayor and council and then posted publicly. For the next report. So section 15 to again, similar implementation timeline. This, however, would be prepared by the public safety departments of police and Fire and safety services. And then the reporting elements are also following a similar format and outlined lines. 53 to 62. The cover is average over time by a role certain roles are spelled out for that percentage of shifts filled by over time cost
trends invited comparisons. So one of the values, the report is overtime to be able to establish longitudinal trends and have data have a data set over time. And then it also asked the department's to go into you know, any notable increases decreases could be event related and then any seasonal patterns that the council should be aware of. And then finally, it asked for a budget to actual comparison. Again, similar to the prior reporter there earlier report discussed it would be submitted the mayor and council and then posted publicly. So that is the extent of my presentation. And so just wanted to frame up the legislation before and invite any questions you might have. Thank you. I will go to te customer. Just first accounts
Johnson. Thank cair being thank you for the the section about the overtime for the police budget. I don't know if it's necessary to get this detailed in what's written in the ordinance. But what I remember from the budget last year was that there were sworn officers that were budgeted for that were not actually filled positions. And it was my understanding that that money was used to pay over time. And so if we're getting these over time, reports. There's a way to capture that as well because that several million dollars I don't know again how detailed you should be in this language. But there are just so many parts to to house. The police department was utilizing their money to pay for overtime besides well, as just specifically MAY be budgeted or in a particular
line item. So I'd like to find a way capture information for us. Thank you. Chair council that shows yes, all make a note of that we can explore what that might look like. That sort mismatch between authorize staff to use for says. is the associate salary. And then abc News for thanks. It's for Johnson. Thank you. I guess have a couple questions. And then like probably a couple I appreciate being able to see this. I did get a chance to review this yesterday when we received it. So thank you for getting that out to us. Prior to today's meeting. My first question for you is, I guess at what role, if any time be office of Financial Services is heavily involved I this process with the departments. But I don't see them captured here. So that Department of Human resources, I'm sure we'll be able to have. They
can see data. But I think the budget piece they work alongside Do you know that we have to put on festival and language like this story is that presumed? Cherry Councilmember Johnson, I she I think that's fantastic point. I think all of us probably should also be included in the language. Just a span of that relationship oftentimes Ofs is, you know, similar to the cao is sort of a clearinghouse of financial data really are the owners accountable ultimately responsible for for that. So I think it's a great point in both of these cases. I think relationship should probably be spelled Okay. Suggestion, I guess on that lines is probably just something it could be as simple as sending saying that they shall in partnership with the Office of Financial, our
Department of Financial Services. Be able to do that. But from a language perspective, I do think that we probably should mention them and both the budgetary reporting as well. So as reporting on vacancies, peace, the other question that I had was related to the over time expenditure I know that this is really this is noted to start on JANUARY 1st. You know, appreciate the new year rally. The New Year space. Doesn't address the current contingency that we have within the police department. So I'm wondering if like there's an ability to even have. Either a separate discussion or join discussion this moves along. But separately of like, I like order of this, but I think that's also spells out what we'd like to see to address this year's contend. It's and the budget and wondering, kind
of thinking about couldn't we just make this requests at this time to address the contingency for the police department's budget. The $700,000. Tat remains and contingency of their overtime spending this year. Jerry Yang and counsel the Johnson. That's a great question right now. The language is it's it's before you is is silent on the question of the current contingency admittedly, even this timeline I thought might in perhaps aggressive. Okay, you know, for, you know, given it would depend on certain data systems, workflows, etc. But I I think it's something that still, you know, obviously needs to be addressed and whether it's this language or through another venue. I think it's up
to you. And then my final question is related to whether or not the current budgetary reporting requirements as written but higher purpose or to have explain what the U.S. Was, that the type of employee it's like they're deploying over time expenditures. But if there's no mention of just like what it's for, I lst time they spoken, a lot of it was my disease. But then there was some emergency overtime spending that was more related to like of and special participation that was not related to like dispatcher actual And I'm just wondering if it's a possibility to just have a edition under the average over time for tie, which but for something that
would be like a. Short explanation as to what is for whether it's tech, what type of use it is not just the employee but the type of use if its emergency non-emergency special event space that might be just really great to try and see where so much of their overtime is being pulled Because I know that they had mentioned that especially in their report back to us that the department was just that there's fact non-emergency overtime spending. That is also, you know, when they have to show up in places that that they send it to be capped. But for and a vendor for something else and community that they still need to report to. See the purpose outlined. Here's that would be my only add-on as back. And chair Yang and council member Another great point. What I would what I would
indicate here is on line. 61 total payroll costs related to overtime and any associated Premium pay tear to your point? No, there's no activity coating in here. I know that was previously discussed. Premium pay is probably the closest we get to that in terms you know, court appearance is part call backs or any other special, you know, activities outside of based compensation. However, maybe not at the detail that is useful for council or wants so some of those other sort of activity codes might be explored. All right. Thank you. Thanks, Murray. A present. Thanks so much, Jane. First of all, just backing up. I want to thank you for your leadership and having this conversation. It seems to me
like in all the budget process is I've been part of we always kind come up with some of the sprinkling like Ashley wish blank then sort of the budget process is done. We move on to the new year and then before we know it, right, the next budget process. And we never really had time to address the blank because of your leadership of this committee and the fact that were meeting year-round, we have the Thank It feels really good to be to be doing Strongly supportive of the ordinance proposal. I'm curious. I totally agree with Councilmember Johnson's point about the need reports now on just basically a budget update from police and curious if we've made that request of them yet or not. And if been responded to. But I think we absolutely need that data from them. Now in my mind, this
ordinance is intended to address that issue in the future by just. Creating a process and not requiring us to be asking for information because it would just be baked in. But we absolutely do need that information. Now. And then I had. To suggest additions one, it would be, I think, great to know in the vacancies section whether or not these are year newly created positions because we've talked in the past about how often in a budget cycle were asked to create new positions and we go back and forth on. Well, is this actually going to be a full year's worth of salary? Because by the time we get through the budget process, by the time the positions posted by time they're hired, is that really? And it's especially, I think, agree just to me when we do budget for new positions and then find out that they weren't tired, maybe for the entire year MAY be heard bunch
of months of the year. So knowing whether or not they were created within the last year, I think would be a good ad, too, that section and then also to Councilmember Johnson's point on the overtime reporting. Ad if it's not already covered here, I think it would be good to know whether or not the overtime was compensated from an external source or not. So to your point about the events, for example, they might work overtime, but it's paid for sure or or not. In addition to whether what the activity was, I think knowing whether or not it was we got revenue to compensate for that would be helpful. Thank you, chair COUNCILMAN Acre a good points. Made a note of that with regard to the newly created positions,
one of the one of the tensions here is that we budget in one year cycles. And as you all know, we need to have a structurally balanced budget revenues, match expenditures. It's oftentimes we're paying for a full year. Ft. But we know that given the reality of hiring timelines, cetera, you know, oftentimes the actual costs us last at the state, you know, they take a fraction of that first year to account for hiring timelines. You know, our attention, of course, a structural balance. We want to pay for And so we assume the full year employment. So, but but a good point, I think something certainly we can on. I just make sure answer your question to counter PRESIDENT About having made a formal request for these reports police and fire from a juror we haven't yet. And I I would say no, because we
operate on a one year budget cycle. It's always pretty tough to like the question in for the beginning of the year. We just started to. But I think they now would be a really good time because I'm sure those numbers have been coming in. And and so I want to make sure that we get to a really good spot was like what we are asking and we will actually be making. Very supportive of us going in and submitting that request that we actually have something ready for for budget season this year and agree with the comments that you have made up because the PRESIDENT Knew customer Johnson about we we really don't need to wait until next year for us to start getting this. So want it now. So, thank you. I customer just hand up and then Kuzma Johnson. Thanks in. A director on just in this kind of just a
comment on what customer Johnson was saying about the type of overtime in the report from last year that the police department, Fred, the table looked department over time. Contractual overtime and special events over time and they broke that out. Maybe that's possible that they could break that out for us. On. The other thing I wanted to add is that there their overall I do at another table that they shared with I don't have it with me, but it was their overall overspending. It wasn't just overtime spending which most of their over spending cuts from overtime. But there were other spend other types of spending that contributed to that overspending. I don't think it was as much as over time, but I think it was like I don't know what was. It was like workers comp additional benefits are just things that that contributed to it, which
I think would be helpful to also know it wouldn't technically be over time, but it seemed like it somewhat significant or another significant part of their overall overspending. And I think it will be important to capture that just a have the whole picture, if that's possible. I have to go back and find what they shared with us. That said exactly that was. But I think that would be important to note, too. Noted, for Johnson. Yeah, I think you like the terms I really appreciate that point cuts just think the terms of like that people often ask us like what problem are we trying to solve? I think this case. really are trying t win with this with ordinance pace really start to dive into what
is catering to the significant amount of over spending within both departments regarding their overtime expenditures and everything else. And so what we are shared with an even just what will remains clear to me from last year's discussion was around the recruitment needs and vacancies within department since I actually think before Dunn says could be really helpful of sections. I would be really helpful I certain to capture some of that because then we would be aware, you know, right now it's police are Department of Fire and Services here. But it's, you know, we MAY find and a vacancy report and other places that their and even in future budget conversations that we MAY want to add. Yes, as a commonality all sorts of departments. But I think as a starting point and that's
that's the to me that that's the question are the problem or the thing we're trying to solving the space of just really being able to capture weight of the issue I I would share that Baldi a formalized request has been made because the PRESIDENT To your question we actually have made several different attempts to have a discussion around the budgetary relations with particular around the police overtime spending to address the contingency and we have not received a response. We have not received a schedule. To have a meeting for that discussion and multiple have been made. And that's something that for me, I appreciate having the ability to directly discuss that this year because I think this is great starting JANUARY one, I think as well as wonderful and when we decided to put the
contingency in place, I will just admit that I kind of expected us to have a discussion with the Saint Paul Police Department regarding their overtime expenditures. And it's still a priority for me as a council member. I think there's been a lot of great things that have we have to within our work our police department. And we had significantly significant overspending, multi-million dollar over spending last year that we still need to really understand. And so I would really appreciate. And I know Councilmember Billy and I were kind of assigned in the council capacity with overtime expenditures, but I assure us that the leadership team, but I would really appreciate counts. Chair carrying and direct rooms for us to make a formal request this year with these had points and starting please to address this year's
contingency. I have formal requests and I know that the Office of Financial Services have begun to talk to the Saint Paul Police Department about some of these items. But I'd like to do that in a formalized And I think it would be, you know, I I be appreciative to be a part of that. I know I didn't a customer. Join me in that. But and for the chairs will respect to your position and and the budget. But we should make a formal in that way, because I think that it's really just not acceptable to not get a response when it comes to scheduling. To talk to the administration about the ways to report, but also we are in MAY and heading into JUNE. And so I really do want to address the contingency because that $700,000 that our police department is not
currently able to use. And I feel like addressing the contingency of housing to free up a time to cater to the ongoing issue, which remains that they have an ongoing issues running over time in over time span spending. That is every year related to the budget. So I'm assuming they will need it this year. So I would like to be able to address that contingency directly. And so just to provide some further context for councilmembers, that has been my greatest disappointment so far. I don't understand why we don't get a response. And that's really concerning to me. And so I would love for us to have a formal requests. Things cause for Johnson. Wholeheartedly agree with you happy to work on that with you to making a formal request. Also want to highlight in the draft language. Sheriff says that these reports are be quarterly reports and very
supportive of that. And and down also would want to make sure that in our formal request that we make, we really emphasize that like moving forward even for this year, we would want those quarterly reports to come All right. Vice Chair Kent. Sure I okay. I'm sorry. I didn't see This ok Well, want to well, just I also want to say Cherry do appreciate you having this on the agenda. I know this is something that when you had. The plan to head up the budget committee early on. This was one of the year. The here and all the council that this is a huge priority for me. I wanted also highlight in have stated that, you know, this is also a priority for Public Safety Committee. This
is also a budget conversation. It's a public safety issue. It's a issue that our constituents care deeply about, especially if 60% of our budget is going towards public safety. We want to have a transparent space to see what our outcomes, what our investment and how we're making good use of these This is the conversations I had with both Chief Henry in chief. I think this is a conversation that. They also are are are dissecting around. What is the factors, especially if someone who's administrator who does the day today. Who is like doesn't hold the hat as like a chief budget oficer. But doesn't all that the impacts of that? I think there definitely needs to be time for And just want to allow for this conversation to happen here. I think with the Public Safety Committee that we all voted for. And
also thank you. Again. 2 weeks ago voted for it chair. I definitely foresee this conversation extending. Maybe in a different perspective in a different realm, but still have some budgetary impacts. So my question particularly is for director Jay and also kind kind of extending from Councilmember Johnson around Our last year's resolution. You know, that had the quarterly request. And now we're on having the beginning in conversations around the ordinance. And please, excuse me, if this was mentioned early on. But I'm just trying Understand what would be the difference, particularly around something that's in the fashionable ordinance like versus our resolution like that? Is it because we go in the ordinance like this is now make it permanent rate. This is now make this more of a
formalize way that our budget did not already do. I'm just kind of like wrestling with that, you know, as just dealing with the tension of, you know, we're now going refreshing, quarter 3 and I'm here from council members that we have not responses to our to our requests for for overtime spending tracking. That's my one question. My second question implementation of this. So I see just like where the reports go to like the submitted to the mayor and the council. But I'm not sure of who actually is the person like the staff like structure. That's gonna actually prepare
this does with this ordinance, which I actually support what this ordinance actually budgetary impact in a way to where we have to take on because essentially would be our council that's preparing these documents and submitting it to the council and to the mayor. Are we looking at certain departments to pretty much I within this ordinance, like in struck a staffer to prepare these documents because one of things have noticed with everything that we have done particularly around ordinances like the implementation is not in our hands right? We do broad policy making. But then the administration does the actual like a signing o even within your right, a sighting of staff. So and it's really
curious around what's the the thinking around our approach of how we want this to be implemented and who'll it, who would foot the with the council are ordinance? The holding accountable to actually deliver on this role. Thank you, chair. And you can the week great questions. So to your first question about why an ordinance for says a resolution. So we in the chart of authority that the council has for creating administrative ordinances through the legislative process. It really defines certain acts as having to ordinance versus all other being resolutions. So in this case. As people waited in 11 12 of the bill draft if lands and intent of the bill dressed any act of the council, establishing procedures for administrative actions must be enacted. By administrative
ordinances. So that's that's why. And I think there's additional nuanced in terms you know, the practical effective you know, ordinance versus a resolution another, you know, am. You know, another thing to say about that is that and in the ordinance is in many ways, more permanent, it's publicly accessible becomes part of our code. That's on And then it sort of written eyes is the you know, this process throughout the city versus a resolution which is documented in Legistar, which is our system of record. But it's not doesn't have the same sort of permanence of an administrative code. Change And you know, in terms and I think, you know, with that the goal, of course, is to, you know, improve the information decision-making
environment by having these things written aisd have her on a more regular basis. And then to second point about who owns the process, you know, this is a draft. And of course, the administration it's to fill and a lot of the details in terms of how this is, you know, minister how this is implemented. I think, you know, my earlier point the goal is to have. The context, rich decision-making environment. So, you know, there is room for the administration to fill out. You know, details within this report. But they would ultimately have to own the process. And that requires. Online all. 38 of page to the Department Human Resources for. you renames a talent equity resources. To to take on this report, of course, as Councilmember
Johnson indicated would need to be done. Also in collaboration with the Office of Financial Services. And then 50 indicates that it would be the departments of police and Fire and Safety Services who would need to. On this and staff Any other comments, questions comfortably? mean, at this time, I'd definitely I do appreciate. I do appreciate this is first beginning stages that really Jeff stage, I I think we really want to take our time with this, especially as we Pretty much designing new internal ifrastructure pretty much like a transparency process we want like both the department our our office to to have access to. But I do think is a good start to wear. Has the more permanency that you had mentioned that we
really want. But I think especially in terms of capacity designing staffers signing staff. We don't have. I mean, I don't know. I want to misspeak to say we don't have that authority, but we can write that authority, but it's really more. So of relationship building. So wich I think is important that we have multiple approaches and we have multiple committees to be able to ensure that what we're designing is actually going to. Be enacted some and I know Councilmember Council, vice PRESIDENT Question of just make a couple of quick comments. I appreciate that question. He has lost their response from new director Bonds. In simple terms, me how I think of it is that this is a way in which we make sure that there's accountability. And
also just, you know, you ensures that there's communication on what is expected to be delivered to the council in terms of information being, you know, console PRESIDENT, you had a you mentioned earlier, like every time we have a budget season and we've been having of the council for 5 years. This is the first time that if recall correctly, there's been conversation around. Lt's pt something in code about information that should be brought to the council so that we don't have to keep making requests randomly here. And there based off of no what we are reacting to when it comes to budget presentations and so the fact that, you know, there hasn't been responses to meeting requests are even, you know, just for the conversation about this, that we can get to a place where there's concrete languish putting put into a cold or that there's a report delivered. I mean, I think that's really indicative of the need to have something very permit to create a
structure that will allow for all the parties involved to know exactly what is expected of overall. And so I'm very just grateful that we have yu director rooms. You know, when you came in as a chief budget officer, you are always really clear and providing us that that guidance and also stressing the importance of let's get this into the colder. Here's what the council can do and what they can't deal. And I really appreciate that about you. It's really been a strength that I see in you. And really glad that you continue to charge forward with so I have vice chair cam and then councilmember council PRESIDENT Come you have a line of I just want to bring a few things into just ride, additional contacts because it and the budget happens every year. And sometimes we have to
be reminded of some of the conversations that we've had he's appreciated when my colleagues to the scene. So part of the conversation was around. Also, Tricia and retention. And then connected to that sworn strength is an arbitrary thing. We who sets that we set it. It's it's based on population size, but certainly strength is sort of an arbitrary number. But what I'm really hping that we focus on is. Attrition and retention of staff and not just after department staff across the city Council member end of the charge on so many very recently of the staff satisfaction survey that we conducted for the first time. So be very interesting to see the turnover of staff based on that based on that report. I also want to name that the way that accrue over time is unique. They if you remember when the chief came, he talks about even per shift. They can
occur over time, right? It's not the and a 40 hour work week. That's when they start earning over time. It is by day. I'm also very curious about whether or not we have a contractual obligation and their labor contract for paying them And additionally, you know where we are talking about overtime overtime for who we have a lot of part-time staff and some of our departments that have been working at the city for 30 years. That would love to be earning overtime better. Frontline service workers in Parks and rec our library staff. So I also think that there's sort of an additional phase of questioning around who who gets overtime. Hope is that over time line item in our budget and and I think
great conversation had suffice as to what purpose and point and who and who gets it. Just want to lift up that. I agree. I think their components of this that definitely fallen or public safety committee and our budget committee and this is where having them. Having the conversation, but recognizing how the overlap is important. And then lastly, you know what, that when you make a request of the dice Israeli official, but in past years, we've received really interesting reports of staffing structures that conducted by a chief. Thanks. And it had to do with our highest call time and how we're utilizing our paramedics were also our firefighters and I serve ask the question to the chief as well. When is the highest amount of calls times, right? How many people do we have to have on to be sort of
fully staffed for the shift and what does that look like? So and naming that for my colleagues and I would respectfully submit that into her. Official request and then lastly, I know these are not all, you know, connected, but just taking all the great conversation is is lost. It will listen. Reducing the overtime budget was also sort of meant connecting to the attrition and retention of our police force. Their retirements included. And I think the councilmember just that they were talking about was like fatigue on And then when they have to be out for for like wellness and physical therapy. I I believe the intent of the council and we discussing it was to incentivize them to staff up like that. We are over relying on overtime and there's a great fatigue in our workforce. And so by cutting by cutting the overtime of
keeping their budget to be fully staffed up again to serve an arbitrary number. But one that we hear that they need is meant to be an incentive for them to staff up to recruit and retain 10 network for. So that's that's the last that I'm sorry. They weren't all eloquently connected, but I really appreciate the conversation. My colleagues today. Counter-protest case. Thank you, Chair Yang and I'm not sure if this is for director rooms or for yourself frankly than mostly trying to make sure I have good contacts coming in a little bit later to this conversation than you all of us following it and the news and whatever. But that's so different you are living. It. I know the language is a draft, but what in terms of the actual? Either possibility for language with the language There been any
conversations yet with the department's mentioned in the ordinance or with the administration. Do you have response first direct loans? And we can. Go around. Chair of House for basket and I'm happy to defer to council member Johnson's earlier comments related to You know, multiple requests were made to mayor's office to be canned process related as w did not receive response to that. Yes, sorry, chair director rooms to be clear, not about the information that would be in the reporting but about the possibility of administrative ordinance for the language. Minister Gordon is what I'm for. Have there been any conversations with? Like to raise the fact that we might be bringing in administrative ordinance or talking about the
language. Cherry Councilmember Progress key. I MAY not be aware of other conversations that have been had, I think for for today. The goal is to present it for discussion and my whole Kit, Kat department feedback on record input into it. Okay. So, yeah, just thank I want to make sure at the context of if this is, for example, the first time they would be seeing this language and also hearing about the possibility of an administrative ordinance in general. I just want to make sure I have contacts I definitely think most folks have brought up questions and points. I would argue make the thing on just in broad strokes and the same commissioner Rod Stewart's first question is there's always sort of a tension between. What we're trying to manage within just the relationship and the requests versus what we
trained formally sort of require. And that's always just a tension that exists where if the 7 of us all talked about what we try to prioritize or which time we do what we all would just fall somewhere differently on spectrum of Senate formal requirements for every single thing. We want to have it all in the admin code versus I would like to think I try operate. Almost entirely in relationship. And then when needed pivot to the structural. And I think all of you have experienced versions of where that trigger point is hit as well. So I think I appreciate the fact that all of a sort of just where everyone is different working south. So there always will be a slightly different opinion what's needed or how much is
new diverse. What's not? I think the main point that I really appreciate that I think you spoke to most are young, but other folks as well setting up. So there's clear expectation is certainly something that I'm in favor of. I appreciate The goal of making sure. Information is being shared. I think the method of how frequent are what information is included. They're not or other things like that can frequently come down like relationship management versus literally reading admin administrative ordinance. But I definitely support the idea of having shared expectation, having clear expectation, making sure we are being clear but what we want and then, you know, it's on us to be trustworthy partners in that relationship
either way. But I definitely support the the goal of that shared expectation and clear expectation because and to your point, councilmember down some this is forward-facing. But for this year's budget, which I will not be here to help with, it's it is important to get some of this information now. So that were informed in the fall. So and kuz our process you brought up a really great question, Ali. was saying, mentioned or gotten to the mayor's office that this would be something that's put in initiative could if I remember correctly that, you know, from director rooms to the mayor's office was that that was something that you intended on doing. We've had so many conversations about this since the budget cycle last year and a You know, the resolution that you all voted
on a plea. That was when I was maternity leave. So I don't know exactly what was wrded and to have I feel we've been really explicit on. Here's intention of what we want and putting it into the code. But part of then I saw him here from Kuzma Johnson. PRESIDENT. Thanks, Jerry Yang and I I will only mentioned in the theme of shared expectation and clear expectation. I will also name there have been times where I was very eager to put many, many even less legitimate things listen to the administrative code thinking it was sort of guide department action or ensure our internal actions are done in a certain way. I will flag I'm assuming we get the analysis from the city attorney's office. One thing they MAY flag is. Actually enforcing administrative codes that departments are held to ends up of eventually getting
fairly tricky only because what would the actual formal enforcement action be? So just flagging for folks that I think. Using the administrative ordinance for clear expectation and shared expectation is important. But I will note that it still will require a fair amount of like relationship management to ensure it comes to reality because I think eventually once you get down the the line, the legal analysis might say there's technically no. Formal like stick so, I think it's still require some care it. But I just just show Johnson. Well, yeah, I appreciate you know education and I think I will just say I'm fully aware of te limitations regarding shuffle, but it simply from the lens of just like. I also think that the lack of response is unacceptable.
And so being able to as a council member that the one thing I can within adience to kind pursue this. But I also feel like one of this was this would not be necessary if we could make this response and for question and get a response that matches. I'm not I'm not sure this point time we'd be able to do more optimistic about just a motion to have in certain departments and sums that I You know, for example, I do think that making task of our first instinct East Middle services from my experience. Usually I'm able to get response back in weeks. I quickly have when it relates to discredit the fire department. I I feel pretty confident that I also feel pretty confident. We knew Burns ability to respond to us as well from the direct Department of Human Resources. I have not yet heard from the Paul Police Department chief Axel about this piece. And so I welcome that conversation.
And I hope that we're able to after this conversation, especially surrounding the contingency before it in a way that is like. For the superintendent, also responsive and so that to me is like what I really appreciate about this. I think the one a he said, I would add, I think just to some of the council members of their points about timing. Going back to legislative process that we're even able to look at. I think this could be really cool tester on that process. And I was just kind of pulling it up because, you know, we have we have a optimistic 11 week timeline for things. But looking at where we are in this release a space and because I believe will soon have. Chief policy officer. But just looking at the legislative assistant role as well. And just want to shout out for and council ratings office Chiang's office about this. But this to me really does qualify that 4 to 6 week period of a hearing
that the policy Committee for And so I really would encourage us to utilize the legislative drafting process that we have as an opportunity to kind poke through. I know it's being currently. At the city attorney's office space. But I still think that that's ok for us Proceed on the timeline that's so that we follow the next steps that it would typically in week 5, 7, I really love to see a bike. This continue forward in hopes that it would start to address some of the departments by and the city attorney's office by and things of that nature and be around just in time for budget to actual conversations in JULY that we intend to have. So. Preston, thanks so much. Chairing the problem with such a great conversation is that they're just keeping things that I want to respond make quick. To COUNCILMAN Johnson's
point, I think that's an excellent idea to use our newly minted legistlative drafting process. I will update the group that yesterday we met MR. Thompson, I met attorney teacher, Nielsen and City attorney started to talk about the process. Lot of buying an interest a couple weeks that we're making and meeting next Thursday to hopefully final final final it. But I think it was a really healthy forward moving conversation. So want to say that also to a point, I think has memorably that you made a little bit ago. I totally agree that I want to take the time to do this right? I also don't want to make this into such a big right? Like we're asking for a report. On publicly accessible information. Department already have, but they trap themselves. So I want to make
sure we're doing it right. And I just don't like magnify what asking them to report asense that they should already have available. So that too, and then MR. Prescott, to your point, I totally and your question really, I think the the other value of the administrative ordinance is by making it that formal. You have the continuity. And I think given that we just saw council where 4 new members came on board, we know that what you come into a sort of what you except as the normal and what you don't come into, you sort of have to figure out is needed. And in some ways I feel like. This is a gift that we can give to the next generation of people who sit in our seats of our awareness of what is needed. So that when they come in the world that they come into is one that has been shaped by what we've already learned is needed, not something they have to learn and then figure
out and then created I totally agree about the issues with enforcement. I would just say if it's not in code, it's not expectation. So we can't even start. And it was surprise all of you to know that I have looked a little bit into what the actual legal options are. If you can't get and the code responded shocking for and there is a legal process of the writ of mandamus that you can actually the council can actually like for sue in court if administrative code is not being followed. We would never want to get to that point. We do everything racially and I think we always will. And should just to know that there there's actual process. And finally, I just wanted to come back PRESIDENT Kim's point about what might also be part of the report and I think given how much conversation we
had last year about the fire department and how much additional resources we put into hiring additional fire firefighters. I just want to make sure that. The report that we ask for in the near future icludes hiring of those positions that we put it because that was a lot of blood, sweat and tears. I sure as heck hope. Council PRESIDENT, anybody else have questions. Comments. don't see so the last thing I'll share t director ones. I do remember when we had library board meeting MAY be. 2 months ago. The library director mentioned that it was in the code that they had to come and present sometime APRIL or something. So really interest me a look of what's the language for for even that
department and I don't need to look at every example out there, but I'd be really interested in seeing how detailed are they in their language to establish peace to be presented or not? It seems like the library director has a lot of autonomy in deciding what they actually want to share because directors report back to us has very different and unique every year. So just wanted to at that as summit. Some intel that I learned along the way recently Customer. But thank you, councilmember, our chair so that the other question around like implementation. I just noticed in the document doesn't reference at office of Financial Services because I couldn't think them as a central allies like reporting fiscal no
transparency like body. So I'm just wondering because even like I mentioned earlier. Kind of my comments around at the department, head of police and fire they they aren't the ones that are like managing the data and I'm not sure exactly what. Like as a someone who does like the administration is, and they're very one that actually does the data collection and data reporting like we have like we have a system of that. But I'm just curious if tis is alignment with how we're already collecting that data and if there's more of like a centralized approach to it through like Office of Financial Services. Thank Chair Yang and council are you're correct. This to should be part of the draft really is office's role
in terms you know, financial data and information. So that is one area that, you know, the draft I deficient in and they should really included in here. So that should be part of the second draft. For Trump's. Thank you, I just wonder spawn tear coming about the library. So the because it's a separate agency in section section 14 of the code. There's a lot of requirements and therefore one, what what the library directors present when the budget is supposed to be presented. There certain days and which those presentations are required to be made. So that's where that's where that live. So Oakland reach up to 14, the cannon, isn't I it what is in APRIL? Just as a number of
days. So it says like 165 days before the date of adoption of a post maximum tax levy. So that would be SEPTEMBER. So hundreds, 6 Fridays and guessing. We'll put that link in APRIL. But it's a so so that's in And mostly because libraries, its own separate agency. I would assume so if we did put something similar. It would you know, probably entered 15. the things customer toast? last round for questions or comments. All right. We'll see 9. They want to say thank you to everybody at the table here for the rich conversation. Is a lot of work to do with this look forward to having employee and I stay in touch with you all in. I struck him that he had made a swell about this and next steps. Director. Thank you again for your hard work on with that year, a
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