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? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? For coffee Chair Johnson. Vice chair. hasn't Captain Rick him. Some of president making

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here 7 present and absent. All right. I feel like always kind fun thing to do to make people make a later day. >> We have a couple of positions Also important street light repair. And replacement udate. That's coming in from our new director director Bradlee. This is it your first time unification. So exciting. Exciting. then we'll overly which will also be a director, Barbara and several the folks that will be joining her as well. So first and foremost, Director Barbara, welcome.

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Welcome. really excited to be a part of your first a nation in front of the body, but also just like welcome to the city. I hope you're getting settled in. Well, it's been great to connect with you. Flying overall. Just excited for you to be here. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me here. And yes, this is my first presenting but very excited to do so. And we've got 2 important topics and I've been a number of experts in the audience here. I will kick things off for both of the presentations, but them call them that. We also have some. >> We have other questions.

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We'll make sure that we get answers to. All right. So first, we're talking about Saint Paul Street lights and where theft what we know as we know that street lights is a significant public safety issue. You know, it's a big problem. I want to share right out of the gate that one of us we're talking about how to repair this pesentation. One of the key things we want to talk about is what a frustrating think of this. Like we do a lot of work. We work very hard part in the Paris constantly and sometimes as soon as we repair like something else happens and it's down again that the virus

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on again. >> And this is turning into sort of its repeated cycle. And so we're going to talk about how we want to ourselves into how we're going approach this going forward because we're really in a situation where we'll continue to have direct flights throughout the city, but we want to be responsive. We are doing a lot of work and want to make sure that people understand the kind of work we are doing. Our team is very committed to doing this and yeah, it's very hard for them to when this is happening and it's a cycle over and over and over again. There's a variety light in

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status here in the city, as you well know. And I think that, you know, there are difference issues with different types of lighting summer for residential streets are for bigger thoroughfares, all of that. And there's a lot of historic night as well. We do know that some of the lighting fixtures are affected more than others. I cover where theft and we've noticed specifically some of the deck or if the castor or aluminum ones are the ones that are often the ones that are targeted most quickly. Here's

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a sign with one spent a lot of time here, but you kind of see the percentage of the different lights throughout the city. I think the key member that I want to mention as that we have almost 40,000 lights in the city of Saint Paul and that doesn't include the alley lights. lights managed by itself. And so there are a lot of light fixtures in the city. So was this happening? It's copper wire theft. It's very, is the goal of what the thieves are after. It's very prevalent across the country were not

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the only city that's struggling. I'm trying to address issues related to copper wire theft and it may not seem like the value isn't that, but it adds up over time and especially that's why you see corridors like entire order is effective at one time where people are trying to get as much coverage possible. And that right is the price of copper is going up significantly and it continues to go up right currently about $6 ad $0.50 a pound, but is expected to be over $9. A pound by 2028, which again, we

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talk about a problem that's continuing and will continue. That is part of the driver behind all of this. Also, when we look at it, this is something that affects the entire city. So all of you that have seen I've heard from many of you about this over time. So I know this is happening. All of your words. This is a citywide problem and which is why we're really starting to try and look at it from that perspective where it's coming after multiple perspectives from and repair. thanks to new solutions to how

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do we prevent the theft in the first place? And so you know what you see in the audience if that representatives from parks and from think APD, because we're all working together to try to come up with solutions. And I think that's a key message for us to carry forward as well. And for a transition over to have want to talk. But so the estimate right now is over 10% of the lights in the city are so that people's to 3500 street lights that are out right now. And then we look at the timing of things. The last time when we

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asked asked our team, thought everything was fully functional was in 2022. So this has quite some time as we're going. It's what start today will take years to fix. And even with come up with solutions that prevent access to all things we still need access to things to fix them. And so it's finding the hybrid solution between some of those things, but with no changes, I think the takeaway here, estimate it could take at least 20 years to address the current live in situation. So it's a people cat, it's a

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supply issue. It's a budget issue. There multiple things. So that's why gonna try and present and talk about more of this multi pronged approach that we want to take. That turn over 20. Thank you. Director the Just touch on a little bit of what the last fight. I think the key thing here is that >> we are falling further and behind. Since then a 22 to every year we're fighting falling further and further behind it with the trends, the wire theft. We don't expect this to change. We're going to continue fall behind. >> This one a lot words, but I think

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just a little bit of a couple key messages with this one as first is that we have a process like we get a lot of complaints. And one of the complaints that we're seeing more and more of his justice is the safer. You know, we see wires coming coming. All the polls. Some of the complaints were getting. So right now with our operations staff of the key things they're doing is actually going out and making sure that when we do get a complaint, the first thing they're doing going out there and making sure that the power's off and there's no immediate safety issue. >> We're not able to do a lot of wire theft to help most of the year. like wire fence replacement at this point.

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It's a lot of the safety checks that we're doing. When we do to repair. There's a lot of factors that come into play that strip. The second part of the slide is it actually function like to get major repairs after being on the lighting system. Some of some of the wire theft is causing significant damage. The lights and it's not a simple just pull new wire some of it cn we do somewhere thought to turn in 20 put summit? How long the lights have been out. A lot of cases we've seen reprieve could effect. So at some point likely can't continue to go back back the same places we've seen. That's

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a super frustrating thing for our staff is where as well as the public. responding the committee with the community. We do try to respond to every single wire theft of response. We get we do have a standard message. I think I heard probably because the news stories we had over 50 wire theft complaints over te weekend. Those all need to responded to. We are responding. Then we have a consistent message. Unfortunately, part of that message is cannot offer a specific timeline for when wire will be replaced. 3500 lights off lights off or falling farther and behind.

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There's a lot of factors here. We unfortunately can just not give people a timeline. sure that's frustrating for constituents of officials, cetera, that we can't give a timeline. But that's the reality. And I think that's not a very well-received response. >> have actually 2 questions. I saw councilmember Kim's hand and I go to Councilmember Nature. >> Just a quick going from question. Use of the majority of the street late replacement. doesn't happen. The Madrid, the majority of the years. I think reduces their seasonality to the

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repairs at all like I think the from question is like, do we do these in all weather or like winter make it harder to summer, make it harder? >> Is it much more about the volume of what you're trying to address for us is like the seasonality. Because I would imagine. I'm not going to it connect that actually. But in my head, it was like. >> Maybe there's less than the one I don't know. So is there more of a sasonality? >> This work in terms of replacement. Thanks for the question. >> there's kind of now the part of it's just like during

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this time of year, we're doing project work. There's other things that of crews need to do as well as just takes a lot of time to just respond to those safety checks. So there's ability to do with some occasional wire theft replacement, 2 outs for the summer months, but played last couple years. There's been sort of a push in the fall doing a bunch of overtime worked to try to get as many lights turned on before the winter as possible. think what we've seen is that there's pilots theft occurring in the winter because conduits for his Astana season, a pole that said we're starting to see

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that rain change a little bit where we are seeing some water theft throughout the winter. But it's a good time that falls push a good time to try to get as many lives as we can. Target turned on for te winner. And we don't see quite as much that just months, but it's still occurring. >> Councilman Acre think of it as acre. Thanks, Madam Chair Mr. Newton going back to the last bullet on the previous slide. Did that to that. The lights are on circuits, meaning. Christmas lights up. One goes out. Others go out. Is that what that means? I want to understand what you're saying. And there. Yes, thank

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you. >> That turn cuts president. Yes, essentially that when if you pull a light and you break the circuit, multiple lights come about the same time. So similar to what you're saying. You, you break the circuit more than one might pose. So it might be the case just to follow that, that that. Why are doesn't have to lights could be out and why are could still be in them. It's just that one key light wire was stolen. >> boat. Correct? wire can stolen from multiple that to

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better strands of lights at one time. >> But yes, like if it gets cut like something, if you were to cut it all, the lights would go out on that circuit. How the first hearing this. So how many? all really construct it. Summertime in a circuit. Is that how many lights are we talking about? given circuit? I don't have that question. Have to defer to staff Just looking to make to you know how many lights are to be on circuit. So just everyone can get. I was between 20 lights

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on the circuit. >> Okay. Thank The questions and me actually have 2 back - additional questions as well from council vice-president Yang and then councilmember jokes. It's your shots and just wondering if you can give us a refresher on whether this is as big an issue in other cities to seems like I don't often hear about in need to for Minneapolis. All. >> Just wondering if you can give some context. for the question. Madam Chair and Council member yeah, our understand this is issue

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everywhere. I think it is going to be different in different municipalities just filed, but the way they're framed, I mean, my understanding is Minneapolis does have the same investment street lights that we do in Saint Paul. So they have a lot X would facilities where Saint Paul has more. actual street lights. But experts are guys that we have. But I think this is nationwide issue. >> Council think students and just had a question about council president's question with the way that the circuits

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are wired for. The is or differently wire them >> such that likes and if they're late para Mueller's that cost more or is there a way to provide more redundancy around the way the circuit is is? >> Thank you for the question. I I don't know that I think we've got to take that back to our team and get more information that. But I would say that I mean, this has been a challenge that we've been looking at for 5 years. there's been a lot of creative solutions that we come up

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with. You know, that's not one that's we've discussed that I'm aware of. But a different team. >> Thank you. Out just want to keep us moving along for And I know that there's a quite a few different sites around it, too. Comes over. Kim, is this a question related to the spiders are kind of related to kind of the general topic at hand? >> It's more overall question. I have okay. I'm going to have us go through. if you have questions related to the specific presentation, I just want make sure we get through each engine for the time in. >> From a facilitation centre,

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want to give you a chance to cut through some of additional slides that you half. Well, I'm a last-minute stay with us live. Just partly that. You know, I know there's frustration throughout the city that, you know, I know our residents are frustrated or their citrus red, but I do like picture of our staff is working on this. You know, we have staff was sure that I could go and do this al the time like they're putting in lots of hours doing overtime and a lot of cases of they're seeing the wire stolen within days. S imagine of the front line worker you're working weekend. You come in on Monday

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or Tuesday find lot of the work that you do over the weekend is to removed. That's a super hard spot and not a great place for morale. And then at the same time they're hearing complaints from the community. A request like why replace or lights. So it's not it's not a crime or a place for our frontline workers. This slide really just kind of the show all the things we did. I want all of them. But like really want to show that the width and depth of the thing we're looking at, it's not one strategy. We're really looking up multiple things across multiple sort Copeland's and we've done a

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lot of it has been a lot of kind creative ideas out there. one of the things are in the process. What we're now reduce water size that was allowed because our change lights. because of safety. are careers were putting out. Kinda came up with a plastic face plate to like cover these up. Unfortunately, those have damaged. So one of things we're seeing is a lot of these things work maybe for a period of time. But if that some of their affecting this goes away talk more about some of those. But some of the other full things like we are trying we're going to like in pilot project on pleasant this year.

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It's a kind of a cool thing. I will tell you, this is not city of people want like it's a great tool to maybe have the tool box office. See how it plays out. But this is not like solar is not something we're going to work throughout the city, tree canopy, et cetera. There's other issues. That's a great thing to have in the tool box maybe it works in certain locations. You know, high exit polls is something that we tried. I think we've seen a lot of damage, some of the ones that Kirk says Putin. So if works in some situations that others, but there's a lot of different things that have been done. Even one of the other things that we're working on our staff working

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on when they have time is in need replacement. A lot of we pay for lights, some of them. pay for power, others. We just pay them by based on the number lights. If those lights are out, we're still paying them. So what are things we're trying to do is actually switch over to meters so that when lights are out, we're not paying fee to excel. What we've learned that there's a lot of life lessons learned. This is not great story here but thinks there's a lot of challenges. One a scale that is super important. I mentioned so 40,000 lights if we set. So there was option like the cost and time it

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would take to replace our lights to solar would take forever and would be a massive expense. So we really have to kind solutions that can be scaled. It actually can like changeover of a larger part of system shoulder. Those are hard to come by. These are resourceful, innovative in Kerman, quite frankly, everything that we've has had some success. over time, it seems like these are some of that. So this is a picture of our those high exit polls like it. We've had some success with it. But they're finding no fees or find out around that they're willing to do more damage to our poll. So

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sometimes like try to like secure them. So it's harder to get there just breaking through and actually doing more damage. The polls. I think other part is some of deterrence are great, but there's still a lot of our systems use and they can just sort of go Another street a couple blocks away and the the wires more accessible. I would say the other one of these problems with the reality for operations, folks to as every one of these strategies as we try to keep of a thief out, it actually makes it harder for electricians to do their work. So there's a really balanced here of how do you how do we

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come up with solutions that allow us to do the necessary maintenance repairs we need to, but also has that positive Detroit effect. fact matter is we just can't keep up and we are falling farther farther behind. And I don't think we see that changing. And, you know, we keep looking, but there is really no so that we have not come across a silver bullet to fix this problem. This is, you know, just kind like what fall work that you're talking about. So this is sort of a summary was done in 2025. So the number of

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circuit, some lights that were brought on board and just the number of hours they worked. little bit of a story about street funding first reliance. final few years back. We lost her ability to charred street lighting fees. So all the funding for street lights was treacherous. And the general fund, we did get a like a one-time funding for 500,000 just support choir there in 2024. But since then, we have budget cuts. And 25 early last

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electrician that's been carried over into 2026. And there really is no dedicated funding for wire theft repair. So really, we're just panned this out of her street. Light in budget. it's really coming at the expense of deferred maintenance. And really our streamlined system is getting older and older and they're actually has a lot of repair and replace the ticker. And that is all being deferred right now. And I think the final phase, one of things that has been talked about is that we are starting to look at a street light improvement district, not different. Not all that different from the strip sidewalk and for the district. It's got a summary of like them out that we spent

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on where theft. Unfortunately, numbers for the last couple years are not great this is to so changeover and software systems well as cyber attack. But you can see, I think I said it again ad up 2022, we thought we were kind of at certain that 0 in terms of wire theft out, even though he spent increasing numbers of dollars, we are falling farther and farther behind. So even with that putting more investment we are. You know, kind of as we look forward. I think, you know, we I think we've always had this approach

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for this is more than just a public works issue butcher of as move forward. This is not a from the public for can solve by itself. There is, you know, multiple lenses that we're gonna have to look at it for innovative, more creative in those lenses. You know, this kind of talked about some of the things that we've gone from show those lenses. And then Those different lenses, infrastructure that's kind of public works. What can we do with the lighting system? I think place to enforce play strategy here. big part of this. You know, is the deterrent? Are we trying to go after and catch car thieves?

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There's a legal aspect. There changes to around selling wire. But I think those need, if it did strengthened some of the policy. Do we have the policy desire to sort of change some of change, funding, cetera? And then even the community, the committee can be a little bit of a watchdog, understand the simple issue of a little more. So these are kind those 5 players that we're looking at. we haven't partner with simple

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the police I think see if it holds for this to as a resource we've been they've been doing a lot of think one of the strategies that was there, it was that these The technology, the >> what was be But there was a the technology that was looked at that had like motion sensors and that that was tried. And Donna, for a few part of the issue, I think that he's got away. >> I'm not exactly sure that the reason why that wayt I think there was ultimately there with the resources

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weren't there and next communicating out and to quickly respond to was not something that was viable. So was one of those things that we try to 20 didn't work things that we are currently talking about with. Police is expansion of cameras to try provide an ability to identify and help captured a The Eagles tries. So in January, one of 25 there is new legislation about selling copper wire. This is I think we see this is

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a huge win in terms of being able to better enforce the law. Arafat that's going on. Unfortunately, one of the things that we just haven't seen is a lot of focus on the actual police scene of this of this rule and actually. Trying in force at The sellers are recycling centers and that's I think, a focus moving forward and how to exactly do that. I'm not sure how much that is in our control as a city versus, but we need help from external partners. Coming from a policy standpoint you know, I think there is want to look

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at this tree lighting improvements districts or there no New Orleans or legislation that can happen. They could be strengthened Iran, that scrap metal and how we actually enforce it. Are there additional resources at local, a local or statewide level? And then just really pushing for higher prosecution coming days. I think there we have had some success prosecuting, but I think some of those penalties are are still not that significant. And as really are, those penalties released turn t keep the wire theft from a tree. >> And thank certainly have a

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question from Councilmember Coleman. >> Thanks, chair. Thank you so much. Just peace. little bit more about the street improvement districts come up a couple of times. know i would be similar to a sidewalk improvement district, but understanding more about what that look Look like would be helpful. But Europe that this just the street improvement districts use a little bit more about what that would look like, what the cost would be, how that would it increase our ability to scale our response. Councilmember? >> I don't. I don't first they have that information. I think that's something we want to talk about and forward. I don't know if we've done

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better. >> Madam Chair, Councilmember, thank you for the question. It would be similar to the sidewalk improvement district. We don't have numbers yet. We're working with. >> That policy team through mayor's office and also with the city attorney to come up with a framework is we do need a legislative change in order for that to for us to do this because of the lawsuit the few years ago. And so I think it's so we will be working out numbers over the next few months. And that is something we can certainly bring back to as we get program or proposal for this

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program together. Council President things this is more of an overall question. I can tell that to the end if you want that's I >> Well, I guess I I'm grateful for the information I am. I am not hearing the innovative strategies that the director mentioned. I'm hearing a lot of things that. Have been tried haven't worked the frustration of staff, the frustration of the public. It feels to me like we need that

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strategy. And if it's not going to come from the department we need to know who. Is putting that together I will be really straightforward that a street light improvement district, for example, is. Not smething that is a solution to this problem is a way of asking our residents to pay more for their wired to be still so. That is a nonstarter for me until we have a way of actually addressing problem. So and I. I'm seeing a lot of things that aren't working I certainly hope that not.

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Continuing to put. Why are back into full set. He's going to be stolen on Monday when it's on Friday. But I'm not hearing right now. Either what we are doing or what we are. Planning to do to figure out a plan. Thank you. Madam Chair Council president. We are actively working on trying to come up with a plan. I know that's not the answer that everyone wants. And I open the presentation with this is a frustrating problem.

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because that was the conversations we are having to. And that's why we really feel it means an enterprise approach and talking with them. Leaders across the city of different organizations and Putin with parks. And Police department because if we have to come at it from many different directions, we have to continually looking for options that are to try technologies themselves and we will continue to do that and deploy them in different areas to see what works. As Randi mentioned, that the main

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problem is there is no solution that will work everywhere and the creativity, one of the key things I think is I commend is having a new safety and operations focus for that is all under one structure. Well about from our focus to get on some of these targeted areas, including street lights and its because that I see it as a true public safety issue. I think that this is something we can focus on. more than happy to come

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back as we work on You know, Bird a fairly new into some of these rules here. So we're still getting the groundwork laid out how we're going to do this. But we do know that we want to work with partners across the city because it is it does matter for it's it's a frustration for the department as a frustration for the citizens is frustration for all of you. And we know that. So but we will be able to come up with plans. But, you know, part of what we wanted to share, that is what really the first as and we wanted to. The

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point about where have a situation that it's very hard to work with cells that fight. Thank I wish there was an easy solution. This is a super super hard problem. I think we as director said we're going to really have to like focus on this and really push yourself to see if we can come up with additional strategy. U.S. official says she's from the public works side, but we really do also need enterprise approach does not appear that

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this problem is going away. In terms of case judges. I think we've we've done a lot in terms of like putting together folks haven't seen it. Are our Web page o public works of all the things that we have done this or the state of affairs like a frickin life, questions. There's lots of ways for people to report wire theft and I think you want to think that we've heard places it's super important and we're trying to show the south folks that seems like a share as much information as I have. So the more information they can provide the details of what they've seen certainly helps and then forced point after

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the fees so some of other, you know, best practices keeping graduates. just watching the street reporting reporting what people see. From infrastructure strategy. We're going to continue to respond to complaints. I I think for the plan for public works is to continue to repair street lights as we can. I think, you know, part of this is where there's a high expectation from our constituents that we are continuing to even though

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we continue to see the wire theft happened. We heard looking for other wire theft deterrence strategy I think, again, we've had some successes in this round, but they they seem to be short-lived you know, that's a picture of pause solar lighting. You know, we'll see how this works whether or not this is something we can use in certain locations that maybe are more prone you have a more open tree canopy. We're going to continue like look for strategies that we can implement implement on larger scale basis. So just kind of in summary here, if we see this as a security public

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safety issue, we have tried numerous strategies. I hope, you know, that's come out here that are really trying. This is up in a really challenging problem. We're looking to continue look for not giving up. We're going to keep looking and seeing that there's other options that we implement and, you know, push for teams to to try to find those innovative solutions. I'd like France situation is not sustainable. We are following going to be farther behind. And unfortunately we're gonna have more complaints about why out why her lights being out. And got to believe replace it.

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Ultimately, if we're going to be successful in this room, we're going to more resources and a broader approach across the city. This is not a problem. That's public park and saw herself. We really need some of that leadership help some of the policy from police partners in Park City Center. That we can take any questions. Wonderful. I see a couple counselors Inc as well. thank you guys for do have a quick question as Could Could you talk about like the cost to maybe some of southern nights

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like this? So I can understand some of the numbers of what how much, how expensive are some of these mechanisms that are seen deemed potential alternatives that you're looking at. What are the costs that the average person like? That's not necessarily in the round of the worker? You know, what is the cost of the flights for the cost? The different types of replacements. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. I have to like maybe get you more information later. But I'd say for the I don't have

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readily available my is that the solar lights probably were a little bit more on the up front end. The other thing that, you know, part of the reason calling this a pilot is there's maintenance things that we are aware of with solar lights, France, it there's Patty sellers. part of this is a battery that's holding the charge from the solar that has to replaced on a regular basis. We don't have to do that with that regulates same thing with a solar panel along with those solar panels last and how often do they really need to I don't if there's a big difference like there is a difference in the capital costs. And I think there is a a slight increase for the solar, but there is

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sort of a different maintenance that comes with them. That require some relatively significant investments as you like. And that may be the 10 to 20 year life life. We're with wired streetlights. there's ongoing maintenance, but it's not about, you know, big investment that's needed at different. Let's say that 10 or 20 or point, you know, life cycle. >> I want to go with council weeks a severe first question, the group and keep going with the hnds of a thank Chair Johnson, thank you so much Haitian a question particularly related to the enforcement. Unlike the holistic strategy side. I'm just curious to know what has

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been the partnership particularly with the city attorney's office and also the attorney general's office, particularly around, you know, looking at hiding or enhance scene. Some of our enforcement and statues. I saw that believe a fire that is now considered a felony charge. I'm just curious to know as well. You know, I mean, obviously we should be using every tool. But if there's an the if there's any.

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Relationships to some of these vendors that's accepting the wires. because I like similar to. Other copper wire like AB, see the people are that that that these are incentivize. I buy some of these companies that they're selling the wires to. So I'm just wondering if there's any accountability or enforcement for those companies that's receiving that as well. >> freshman chair and council member. want to. Companies

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because >> start with Accept at 4 we have. We our police force has been targeting people at who have been stealing wire. Not necessarily within our structure to go to people who taking in the a I do appreciate the comment about attorney general. I don't know that we've done that. I'd have to ask. I know we had some charges through the county. So I think they're they're involved. But now out you.

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Welcome personal. Are you doing to I'm I'm very good. Thanks, Frank thing really? And think great question. It is a very complicated matter when it comes to actually charging holding offenders accountable. >> There's a there's only recycle yards that are in the city of Saint Paul. The rest of them are scattered across the state. Saw. We do have legislation and ordinance in the city of Saint Paul. But you are 100% correct that we need a statewide approach. There are jurisdictions across

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the country that have established a statewide. Why are theft taskforce Louisville, Kentucky, as one that comes off the top. My head where they have coordinated efforts across the state, a fortune Wisconsin's right across the border from us. But that approach that I have been in conversation with mayor's office ad the next legislative session there's also some changes. I think that we've made a lot of progress, copper wire theft or not copple worth of catalytic converters was a big thing

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that the state law then change that that has to be registered on an electronic database. The law now states that you have to record these cells transactions on a journal. No law enforcement agency in the state has time to visit the site scroll through pages and pages and pages. Of these documents. All of those of the suggestions that I would make going forward I'm not front and we have made some arrests. It's been a bit since we've made It's very difficult to to get a case from arrest to charge minute because we are

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behind on what it is that. Is open. What is current. So we have to be able to say that the light was working when the individual caused the damage to the life that we have been able to make some successes in the past. But it's a comparatively speaking a relavely little level felony. To begin with. >> Yes council president maker, thanks, Madam Chair. Just quickly following up, I'm glad you brought up catalytic converter theft because that I know we have put a lot of stock in the legislation that passed on copper wire theft because after the legislation pass related to catalytic

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converter theft, we did see a dramatic production and those that so can use a little bit more about why this proving to be so different. >> Well, the catalytic Converter says they are recorded. An electronic database called leads online. And that that is a different database than than what is included in the copper wire theft. The copper wire theft requires the seller to have a license that's free and issued by the Department of Commerce or there's a nominal fee associated with it. And then the law says a day after record in all the way, it's that the vehicle and the

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driver's license information when they make the sale. But it's not in a searchable database with world in which we live in today. You know, you walk into a restaurant. They remembered that you were there last week say that we're recording this data. class journal that's kept under the desk. It's not efficient for a law enforcement agency to be able to go out there and say this person has been here 15 times in the last 2 weeks. So those are the leads that will definitely help law enforcement come to you know,

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an idea of who is doing this and it's not. It's not just copper wire theft, it's no air conditioning units. It's cell phone towers. We see the statewide and it's it's a much bigger problem than Saint Paul. >> Thank you. Chief icy home cuts over Kim. 10 as well. The local council Burgess, the vice president yes, similar line of like interesting questioning. So bill that was passed was 2 of our sample representatives, my representative, if you know,

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Hollins and are retiring, Senator Sandy Pappas. >> And I think that you know, they'll be interest and even weakening the language next year citing colleagues to consider, you know, if we were to amend this bill. So it works stronger. What recommendations I make and how we want to maybe adjust our legislative priorities for next year. But one thing that has come up time and time again is your exact point. Council president is like. How are we sort of tracking this information and one of the best parts about the catalytic converter theft was also that they required to

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show ID. And for the VIN number of the catalytic converter and that possession of it. And so there isn't sort of a similar regulatory space there. But one idea that it come up previously was limiting the number of times someone could sell, could sell it because even looking at the numbers that you posted earlier, if I were even times by to the numbers between January first and June, 30th, we are on track to have 15. 1581, which Scituate sus right between 224 2025. In terms of the number of lights that are

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out. And so I would just encourage us to think about not just putting on our list of priorities, but what is the language that we want to change to ensure that it could be enacted statewide? what like? I don't know if they need to show an ID, but it's just a state like and legitimize the market. But now we're seeing issues where it actually doesn't. qual theft. So that's like a thought for my colleagues. But then the follow-up of are on the numbers. U.S. has reported. >> The number that you are offering us is a snapshot of reported wire theft. >> And recognizing that

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report, the system in my mind, based on the number of complaints that our office gets and how much of a hot topic this is could one in for that? Actually, the numbers quite larger than the ones that are being reported. >> The number is much higher what is for it. So that number that you see for that state like that is just what is reported and log into through a complaint and desk in some of those things. We know complaints come into parks, go into public works. Come from constituents to your word

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offices to to complaints to the police department. So we know it's much higher than that. And that goes to a couple of things house and the same. But one of the things that we need to be able to do and this is an active in that we need to do a public works is. >> Have also record of the assets of which lights around. So you can the show have the proof that the light was on and it's no longer on. So to help with that. But also as we were talking this multi front, that's part of it is going back into the legislation because the problem isn't just isn't just checking of the

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records. It's even where selling it, too, is sometimes at a states. And so that a huge poblem here because said with that 3 and the and the in the city. But that's not necessarily where the wires going to. >> think? We're going to council vice-president question comes from bridges question. But then we're going to transition to and overlay and folks to have additional questions for director Barbara on that. I think it's going to be really important for this for discussion. I think to echo some of the things you heard here to you like I think being

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able to share some of the information regarding the issue is really important. But what's equally important is being able to show, you know, especially on the budget committee some of things that we talked about. It just like, what are some of these things going to cost? What is that like to have innovative strategy to address the issues that we're seen? Because, you know, doing nothing obviously is going to lead to further degradation of this and also just like bigger problem in long run into more expensive problem for the city. >> For Darcy published are basically to fix if the state

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doesn't come and save us. >> Which they often don't. And so just thinking about like what the strategy looks like in the short term and long term, I think it would be really helpful to beat you down on that. I know that te department is doing a lot of internal conversations, but I don't necessarily know you know, to what level of those conversations have, even, you know, kind of reached us as well. And so do CSS like allies and that work, especially when it comes to the budget season. I know we had like a slide that was on some of the dollars. We have given, but not necessarily how

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it was utilized or just like what's the breakdown of those funding sources and we talked about deferred maintenance and just how that's been the money that's been kind of scraping through. But that also that may be even more dollars, hasn't actually lead t a decrease in the fact that we've been seeing. And so I think that some of the questions that your scene of just like if more investment doesn't necessarily mean that the problem is solved because we're trying to come up with more comprehensive strategy. I hope to see that reflected in the budget asked for the department as you guys are going into budget season because doing nothing or even just being able to put

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Band-Aids on the problem doesn't seem to be working for us. And thank you, Madam Chair. They've doing that thing doesn't work. And that is definitely not our intention. It is currently we'll get you some additional numbers how the funding has spent been spent after the past couple of cycles. And one of I think that this before my time. So I think that half a million dollars that was allocated, that was that slide. That went to a lot of extra overtime and

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electricians to take a big push to try to fix a bunch of things a couple of years ago. But we do need to look at the ongoing funding structure because where the money comes from now is from different street maintenance. >> To pay for a state It is right questions they ask Im really glad you brought us here to talk about it because we all recognize it a complicated issue. but it's good to have partners that are interested want to help us solve the problem. Yeah. And I think just so you all know and

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everyone who's watching, but also cty staff do when topic is brought to the Budget Committee this year. It's symbolic of a the feedback that was coming from this council. So presenting because over, you know, a majority of the council all the council members action vocal has an interest in supporting it. And so just really being able to hear from you on is really helpful, beneficial. I think we're thinking about the budget season. Just know about lies under and our work. And we are watching because we see the maps. We understand we hear the calls. We also the complaints, but on the plus side and also on the other side of things, you know, we are invested in trying to

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understand what the innovation solution is and what the strategy is and how we can support that as well. Because beyond the complaint to be on the work that our staff and our team are doing. You know, the volunteer overtime that folks are taking. We essentially also share the same common goal of addressing the public safety issue, which is when we have street lights that are stolen. We have streets that are dark. We have folks that don't feel so safe. Walking down the street, walking around the lake, some cases and so just really making sure that we are also able to to mitigate that with

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investment, I think will be really important. And if we don't know that ahead of time, you see things like positions that maybe you're hoping to fill are a part of the strategy not getting funded. You see things that are part of the strategy not being funded because we aren't aware of the strategy. So that piece is going to be really important this year And with 2 questions. we do said you, that's not a question of your question answered. I just I just kind of want you to go to. we're going vote I. Yeah, I agree with what chair Johnson said. I think that you know where we're talking about

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an issue that to solve it is going to take a really long time and it's probably going to cost millions of dollars just guessing. >> And I think we do need support from the state government. We can't. So this problem alone. And so what I would Alston like Cerda what I would really like to see is, you know, from the strategies that you have, what is the cost? What is the timeline? Are we looking at short-term strategies versus long-term strategies? and what is the difference in how many lights that that's going to keep on in our cty? as I'm sitting here and thinking like, why

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don't we make them all and accessible to everyone? Will that keep more lights? And I'm not sure. But, you know, I think there's I share your frustration in trying to think about all these options. And also knowing that, you know, the feasibility around some of them and the time that it will take or talking about 40,000 street lights. So I really appreciate the presentation. I think more of that information, even n matter how big the cost is, you know how much you maybe don't even like it or love it. Just seeing what those options are. So that its chair Johnson said we can work on making

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decisions or even adding some of these things to our legislative agenda. going to be really important because, you know, we this is this is such a huge issue and if this goes on for another 20 years because it's going to take that long to fix it, we're going to keep spending 500,000 to a million dollars every year until it gets fixed. So I'm for you no matter what the cost is, wanting to know what it is and figuring out how we can paid for now because it's just going to cost us more money later and as everyone knows, it's a huge public safety issue. >> Thank Met Council member we

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will work on some of those numbers. I think will be a high number. And if we're looking, especially if where there's one thing to fix the 3500 licensed a different thing play across the 40,000. Let's cross the city, right? Because as we've seeing that these wellness, as as implement things, but I think that we're having direct conversations P as well. So I think we We're kind of working together to figure out both fixing and then also best prevention. And so put a focus talking about some numbers and

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trying to get you guys, something of if we had all the things to able to fix everything and to build and prevention shows what that would be place it. It will be a big number. And you know what? That's why we wanted to Very blunt and honest Thank you. council vice president being all with you on this particular presentation, Mr. Johnson, I want to take a moment to recognize all the work that her staff have been to problem solving this issue. >> And just trying to be

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really innovative about it from public works for police department to parks back in all of the departments involved in this. >> And I say this because that one of the things that I know when I reflect on just how far along com. Honor city stance for repairing the street. And how important is just really proud that we are where we are today because I remember during the pandemic it there was a presentation done about this and at the time the rhetoric was well like having street

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that's more lead. Doesn't mean doesn't make us safer. But I believe that our residents are very clear about what actually is safety to them. And they do want to make sure that they're going to business corridors to a park that is well lit. I think they can see where it is they're going, whether it's in a few feet of them. Many feet ahead of tem. And so again, I'm really proud about that in over the convention. Offer your work. I'm sure it's very disheartening to our residents and and to our leaders here in the city to whenever we do

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hear about the wiring getting stolen again, however, I also know that it's even more yo disheartening and discouraging for our staff. Are the ones doing the hard work of putting the wire in. So I really appreciate you all. One thing I wanted to uplift is I wonder if this is just suggestion out there and talk out loud. You know, when I say this, I wonder if there's some srt of partnership that can happen between the city and especially this corridors because in my ward, Payne Avenue has been without lighting for probably over a year now. And that's the one a here are the most complaints

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about. I also shared desire and getting bad that court led up to because I know that, you know, we can just bring more patrons on into the business is when we can accomplish that. And so the I have in mind is I wonder if there's some sort of recommendations that even our plan and economic development department can put out to businesses that are facing this issue. But because sepa some businesses where like you just put up there, you know, hang up their own street lighting. And that light really great on the corner or the area that they're And to even though that's not going

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to be a for solution. And we don't want it to be because it will also drive up energy costs for businesses. If it's something that can be done for the interim, too, I'm sure that there are many entrepreneurs who are ready to to spring into action and try do something. In the meantime. So that's something want to out there. I think it would definitely be creative PD can talk about that. Some more partnership the department's year. >> Thank you, Madam Chair customer. That's a great idea. I definitely bring up with PD and even within the assistant mayor, group like there could

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be other other departments who might have a role as Thank you. Thank yu. Thank you, Mr. And for being here. Thank you Chief Alston for being here as well on this item and for making time for it. >> entire public Staff team that's here to related to it. We appreciate you guys. >> Coming out to talk about this will transition over to mill and overlay now. That they chair council members are here to say to also talk about relief program

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in the city of Saint Paul. So we're going to tax incentives, talk a little bit about what is known overlay. The funding source is. >> Projects over the last few years. Some of the benefits and the shortcomings of it. And then challenges and kind of what we see as a budget priority. So what is known of her life? No, no, a street. We have technique and I'm going to show a little video. I can get the ? >> know how to >> You may have heard the

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words mill and overlay used a lot lately in Saint Paul. But what exactly is mill and overlay? We asked Chris Sanders, Saint Paul public words, paving supervisor for an explanation. >> Simply put millon or lay as a way of adding life to old pavement. When a street surface to terror raids, can be rehabilitated through millon overload. >> It begins with the milling or removal of the top layer of asphalt. >> We remove all one and a half to 2 inches of the top layer of the old pavement. The old material that has brought up by the milling machine is

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then recycled into new asphalt. The mill payment is then swept to remove any loose debris next attack or is applied to the newly built surfaced attack or helped spawn the new layer of asphalt to the existing asphalt. Then the pavement is ready for a fresh layer of asphalt. Saint Paul uses a variety of asphalt that is stronger and mre resistant to wear the other commercial grades of asphalt. This asphalt produced at the city's on asphalt plant. The payment is given a final smoothing with a trio rollers.

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The new payment then be open traffic within 15 minutes of completion all said and done them. Illinois overlay process is done in 2 to 3days and the street is set to last for several more years. >> really, I think the key thing that's takeaway from that is it is a way to help extend the life of the road. So as we know, has challenging corridors within the city. It is not the. Fairfax full road reconstruction is, but it does extend the life of threat. And this is what looks before and after. And then this this

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slide was put in by past. ex experts said it's agood way of understanding kind of where you want to ban the cycle of all that. So the PCI pavement condition index that just tells you the condition of the surface of the structural integrity of the road. So early on in the early days, obviously should be good. There's a point in time things start to deteriorate and that is actually where want to start doing some of that and on overlays for repairs. >> Earlier in the cycle, so thanks. The 4 year here, you

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really want to be spending the money on this peservation here. And so one of the key things in the long term looking plan that we need to build out. I think, you know, there's a lot of there's been work being on this, but its really fguring out how we status of the construction and the military way and street repairs so that hitting that sweet more rather than just responding to thinks. And, you know, really really cost-effective comparatively. You can see the cost side

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about $4 per square foot now. So this is only a the that >> operational piece of it. So there are some additional funds required for. >> The other piece is what we do overlay. We also go in and fix concrete work building the ADA, accessibility, some of those other pieces of infrastructure at the same time. So there are some additional costs associated with that. But overall, it is a good cross and effective ways to street maintenance or a All right. So how they how is it funded? So the funding

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sources come from a variety of places. So their street reconstruction bonds, which are issued for overlay general fund for arterial oerlay. We'll have our city and come up and talk about those 2 different programs. A little bit more. There is assessments that are by used to service debt on the residential non of her life. we it covers a portion of future costs larger portions as actually is for reconstruction. And now going

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to transition over to. Nick Peterson. The city engineer. ? Welcome, Mr. Peterson, Good Morning. Nick Pearson, City engineer. So I will start with arterial street known overlay work through the residential program. That's relatively new. So every year about 3, 5 miles of arterial streets are paved through the overlay programs going to depend on the types of corridors and the amount of funding that's available. If we step back in time and look at, you know, not only a decade ago, the city had a whole lot more money budgeted for this kind

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of work. But it was really kind of falsely budgeted because there are legal challenges that were imposed of the program and the way that our projects were funded. And, you know, fast forwarding back through time. Know if we find that we've got 4 million dollars general fund available on 1 million of assessments. >> Related to that, there was also. You know, less maintenance funding that was available. similar legal challenge at the same time. So lesson overlay work that helps extend the the pavement life

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and then also less ability to keep up with those potholes. >> The pavement preservation, as I said to mixed and the life of the road, it's going serve as seal. A seal on top of the people like it's almost like it's a much more than this. But it has the effect of page right? That will keep water out as well. So not only does it add structural itegrity and actually ad load carrying capacity to pavement, but also helps extend its life when these projects occur. There's also concrete work that happening. So in the video we saw the bituminous oerations as a part of the the lrger

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project. There's also a lot of concrete work has to happen. Sometimes Kerr pass to get replaced. Pet ramps have to be brought up to ADA standards and there might be pumped out that are introduced when we look at art, real streets particular, they're going to have higher volumes of traffic. And as a result, there's more risk associated with crossing streets. And so there's also focus on pedestrian safety improvements to happen with these projects as well. So traffic calming and because there's this ability to kind of reconfigure the road. So that's all the striking disappears. And, you

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know, we've got bigger project than bike lanes might be as well. So that's a consideration on the project. So historically, arch real overlay work. A contractor has done the concrete work. And then our forces city public works. Forces would perform the actual new bituminous placement and we work with another contractor to stuff off. So kind of a hodgepodge with generally speaking historically, the talking point has been that we've we've done there work in House, starting tis year to

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simplify things a bit. We've kind switch that around where our own forces are going to do. Residential overlay work will still have You know, specialist contractors doing contract the concrete work, but the bituminous work on residential would be done by our forces. There's less coordination. That's a more efficient operation for folks and then the arterial because there's so much more that happens with those would be done contractors. Council. President maker. >> Thanks, Madam Chair. Do we

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preform work on ICE? And answer is no, but I will make sure we don't perform work on state and county roads within the city. Correct? Madam Chair Council president. We do on occasion, but we do that via cost participation policy. So I'm I'm anticipating kind of the root of of the question. >> That we do have some maintenance responsibilities on county and state facilities. Just imagine if we had it already know what feels like. We often have whole lot of stuff going on. It seems

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like it's uncoordinated. >> imagine we had the state the county doing a lot of that stuff on their on. >> So we have meet its responsibilities. And so we will do some of that work. But we will make sure that we are made whole from the state of the county will not work occurs. We have cooperated. come to on So the cost participation is 10%. >> I'm the owner. If if it will vary by the type of how how it's delivered. >> But I would offer I would really like for. Those costs,

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participation policies may be to be more amicable. >> And city's favor and we're working through that was rented county right now. Ad on the slide were kind of looking back over the last, you know, not only 5 years here over some of the work that's been performed. I'm here real network. And so we've got 21 through. 25 indicated these corridor show up in our 5 year plan? Really? We're trying to be more dynamic and we're not planning for these 5 years in advance. A lt of these corridors, we

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don't have the funding to do that. Reliably because we have to do it sooner. We don't have the ability to do these things on a rigorous sorter-term schedule. So we're trying to acknowledge that some corridors could be worse than others. so we've only got really the first couple years of her 5 year plan has actual placeholders in there for specific corridors. And then we've got to bin rules of the court orders that are at the end of that. So we can see there's a whole lot of projects that have for farms. The far-right column has the street maintenance bituminous cost included there. They're

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also Pine Creek costs that go into these as I know, other than, of course, administration, engineering and inspection that goes with the U.S.. a rough rule of thumb is that the concrete cost is not only the same as 2 minutes cost that's not a perfect science. But generally speaking as a rule of you would see in that first role, 1.5 million dollars, roughly multiplying by 2 to get to what that total construction cost is and then adding an engineering. And, you know, those administrative aspects testing and that sort of thing. >> So just want to some some

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background here as we progress through time. It's not a perfect science. But as we progress through time. >> Our funding has decreased and we have issues with these. You know, every entity has projects throughout the city. Sometimes there are scheduling challenges that come up something something takes longer than was anticipated. And our when do we get We we ask for and usually need a fairly narrow window to do our work and we don't want to be. You know, as a good partner, we don't want to Asking for

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too egregious of a window, you know, being too conservative in that. But on occasion, the window will pass. And so we see corridors like get gets led a year and then another year because, you know, there are big things that we don't want to get in the way for partners important work as well. >> there can be some bigger and bigger impacts over and then the last row. Here is 2026 and under next slide talk about see Anthony. But so be is I'll say, I don't know ever used the word fun before

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council before, but it's kind of a fun example of partnering with with one of agency partners out there to do work on. So be. Metro Transit, had some money that was available and it had to be used to enhance their. It was attached to a specific project to head to be. >> Used to enhance that. That service offering. And so that transit facility ws long so be they offered to pay for a 2 look there. So we let them, you know, hey, we're for all on board with with that right? And then we have to then a

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part of the agreement as we take on the concrete working to pass, that would go with it. That's our street. So so a good partnership. And, you know, making its way through through the process here. No. Saint Anthony, this is going to look a lot kind of procedure really? It's very similar to what had happened in Korea. Rondo. Somewhat recently. This is a quarter to frontage road that struggles with that My a one way to enrolled and this project would propose to narrow the lanes stone from to make it

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much clearer as to be driven. It's complicated in the sense that across this county roads and and at facilities. Ad the opportunity, as I noted comes up to do so much more. So we have to do a DA enhancements and then there's also the opportunity to look at traffic calming and to, you know, look at adding bike lane facilities. So the project proposes some bump-outs and bike Lane maintains parking on the one side of road you know,

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should make things safer in the long run. And it's it's not a reconstruction. So it's not as robust as a reconstruction project would be one that all the getting replaced. But, you know, it's sort of a happy medium. Then transitioning into residential, know all way. So this is a relatively new program that started in 2023. It's funded by street reconstruction bonds. The budget for this is 3 and a half million dollars on an annual basis. And the order for these projects is

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determined going way back in time when the streets were reconstructed, we're going back milling and overlaying these roads in that same order. So there's an aspect of being consistent with that. And, you know, we took we took the multiple pages of those areas that were regionally called the RSVP. Areas and just working forward through that same so making making good progress on that, France that's focused preservation because quarters residential streets don't carry the same

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volume and have the same risk associated with arterial crossing. So there's more of an emphasis on payment and less on other. Safety aspects. And as I noted before, this is a case where our forces are going its work they'll be something of the building that removal. on top. So some a map of what the program initially looked like when we kicked off. There's actually, you know, maybe one element of pride I might I might point to on here. Or next project on the slide area number 5, and that's actually been moved up

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to this year. So it's progressing a little faster anticipated. And this is a suspension, Alan Gin, because of the, you know, a set dollar amount every year. But these projects are all going to be very different in size complexity. And again, another sample project here, the it Birmingham Project is residential all the way. It's going to do some ADA working you know, take care of a whole lot of stuff

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in the area one times as best as we can. So before sizzle. To the work of him. So back to kind of big picture here, overly benefits. one of those very few of. Affordable options. We don't have as much money as as we wish we did to be able to fund this kind of improvement. But it is one of the few some affordable options that we have it in part structural benefits to the road actually increases you know, carrying capacity in

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hopes that live longer. We do have the ability to assess these projects the city. Can assess, yu know, there are limitations on that we can to 25% on these projects. You know, it's it's a super effective way to it. Improve the pavement condition versus reconstruction. We're not gonna go out and reconstruct just for the sake of having a smooth, a writing surface. So it's it's significantly cheaper than that used to get the you know, a really smooth quiet surface. We can reconfigure things with, you

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know, new paint markings and and, you know, kind of change up that the use of roadway at the same time. And every time a little really work is done. It reduces the maintenance that demand do the number of potholes and the severity of potholes particular will go down dramatically, at least on that corridor. So that's important lead. I mentioned programs, safety improvements that are part of a five-year plan. There's a lot less disruption that goes with us. Generally speaking, you know, the country work can take a

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bit longer. But it's really it's we're measuring this in weeks and months. You know, conventional construction project us. And process can be multiple times. There are limitations to this. It's not the right thing to do. Whatever old and You know, there's there's a whole lot challenge that goes with The funding limitation that we have so you know, some roads are really old. If there's maybe they were constructed

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consistent with the demands of the, you know, the current current times here. one of the best things that we can do. If you've got a road that super degraded wasn't constructed correctly or it's just simply old and the materials are just tired, broken failed. It doesn't make sense to do it if utility needs. doesn't make sense because we need to dig it up anyway. go through the process of doing just the surficial work, what we can do so much more. And it doesn't address the underlying issues. Payments tend to feel from the

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bottom off, you catch fish. >> Transitioning into our departmental challenges. you know, this is where maybe a and make a sales pitch for, you know, different equipment, kind of a thing for operations side of public works. But are the equipment that we use to perform this work is it could be more optimal. >> It's not as big as it could be. We could have equipment that is more efficient that, you know, can cover more area at one time. It couldn't park more energy into the work. doing to have a more solid

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product in the end, would be kind of nice You know, that the trailers that we use routinely making rounds from the public works facility back out to the site. Rest contractors will have figure equipment that they can mobilize more readily more quickly. we want to move into. Really making sure that we've got top notch products out there rather than using a qualitative method that's been used for a long time, but actually using technology to do that. So one world doing this. One of the things that I

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have to always forward is it's the same people doing the work that would be filling potholes. So >> it either overlay operations or or possible operations to staff limitation. We do have are on asphalt plant. That's a thing of pride every spring when I go up to the public works facility in. I see all these trucks from other cities there cued up, wait to get our fall. As for the first shop in town, that's a thing of pride to see people do that. So. You know, we've got some control over that. And of course, you know, it's it's intended to be self-sufficient plants aging,

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and it's going some serious attention here. we've been coming to light how we do Mr. P's. I'm gonna have you finished your last 2 slides here s we have a couple times quick questions from council members before we have to after 9, 11, 30. So you can just quickly finish the last 2 fights that you have. >> So the impact decreased funding from the little overly you know that happens, the roads going to accelerate its decay much faster. Director Barbara presented a slide that had a graphic that showed that

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roads going take a lot faster as ages. roads don't get attention in time, water gets in and it just creates all kinds of problems. We've got increased But I mentioned in claims and complaints all kinds of things that come up from from the public. It's one of a number of strategies. Some of these are relatively new. Obviously we're talking about overlay reconstruction is is pretty clear. Reclamation is something where

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we're kind of a hodgepodge of the 2, so to speak that we're trying to up. We get a couple projects in the somewhat recently and then looking into new additives that would help our roads last longer. And then, of course we have we have made things that we do. So with a person's happy to stand for questions. Thank you. Council president maker, thanks, Madam Chair. I will combine all of my questions together and want action. But 2 sides ago is definitely my favorite slide talks about

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some of the needs ideas to make this work happen more efficiently. I've never heard about the need for the different equipment, but I hope that there will be follow-up with how much that would cost and how much that would save. curious why we don't use contractors are considering apprenticeship with the trades potentially to so that we're not using the same workers to potholes and Mullen overlay. If it's just a labor how we're thinking about solving that do we have plans to make our asphalt in DOT certified. And then finally, never hear about feel cooking anymore. We still cooked and

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what's the value of that life of the street versus small that really another process? that's all. Let's take a couple of them like you want to start with the Has a plan from adopting still be certified? >> Madam Chair Council President. >> I'm gonna try and go in reverse order here. I wrote down. So. Track trend up to. Constructed the Cold is something that is preservation tool help slow UK. >> And we pulled the plug on. Do you want to jump in where

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got to make >> The fuel code aspect to it. It's that help prevent decay. And we got to a point where we were doing for the city every year. But we've done that for so long. We found her way into having lots still cold layers roads and we pulled the plug on that because at some point it just didn't make sense anymore. And it could cause trouble and benefit at that stage of time. So it'll be reintroduced, but it will be

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reintroduced on roads that are most appropriate >> some point I supposed just gonna keep going on the in the shoulder. the plant, I'll skip the plant. And no, totally forgetting what the rest of the questions just on tractors to help with paving and any U.S. Lee are ways to address that labor issue. >> The have copped arrests. That one, I think actually there's a having a contractor to perform maintenance

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purposes. And operations aspect. Ay that those without? ? >> moneys Charlie on the streaming as manager. I can say men not question. We are working on trying to get certified some of the stuff that we will have to do is we have Bill The clear at this cycle has full had 12 plant. So once we work through all the cost will pay for to the comes councilmember just to

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support us. But we are trying to get And that's where Feisal because a lot municipality. They do the projects they need and a certified products. So we are working on that. And that's and that's where contractor we did. Look at one time, call. So so hard country more than what our force could do. But if we do have the budget, I wouldn't support going contract. >> I think again, you know, just overall director Barbour

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and really do appreciate both presentations. It could be really helpful to see the actual finances behind what's being pesented. It's a little hard to follow and I appreciate that, too. Presentation, he says. But like my questions remain of like the amounts resources that are actually appreciated the four-million and the 1 Million. But like doesn't actually translate for me of like what you know, what we're spending, what we Bt it's the kind of dollar amount behind the work that happens. And I

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think to the question to the peace and jus equipment, you know, I think my biggest question on equipment anytime is how that benefits residents where, you know, making those investments is one thing. But like. Investing for different needs of millions, like I think when we think about what it would ultimately look like create some relief for people. So they are not covering the entire piece of the military process. And that would be helpful to know where the revenue sources of some of these projects come from as well. Just look where the money comes from, where it's being spent and numerical

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numbers. I love, especially I love numbers. I love all the things. That's why I really wanted to buy the chair. And so we review those and I find them a little bit missing from the presentation. And I just wanted to be able to share. That's available in a follow-up. We'd appreciate it. I'll go over to Councilmember Joe Council, vice president again. Thank you, Thank you. Director. 2 questions. One about you mentioned, the rolling equipment. And I also like to see what that was would cost. I'm going assume

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that the ruling equipment that you have is providing sufficient like rolling of the well. But also sounds like if we had better equipment. >> It would provide better. A better role to the asphalt. >> And then >> there would be, you know, a cost benefit associated with that around the longevity of the of the mill and overlay. So that's kind of my first. if you know what that would be you and what the improvement would be in the road if we had better equipment and then if we could, if you could get the

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costs, that would be helpful. >> bunch of friends. Thank you, Madam Chair Council members who have some of these answers. So I'm gonna step out of the way and let them Welcome start a little bit. And then Jericho finished, is really more the I've been the operation manager and public works for a whole 2 and a half weeks interim. I'm this is my cash personnel and overlay. But one of the things, you know, asking some of the same questions that you guys are asking and >> when it is fair credit, to me was that. The rollers take 4 passes where you can rent equipment currently, or if

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purchase equipment for about 2 to $300,000, we could do it. Double and due to pass opposed to 4. So we are looking at those numbers and the efficiencies and then the next question last year when he can talk a little bit more about this is OK, well, what would that mean for staff hours and efficiencies and time and how much more can we do? So we are digging into those things right now to see. >> Where the actual dollars a line and with the benefit would be. But you know what happened? They had the benefit as we get it done quicker and get more done. >> Okay. And then my other

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question council president maker a similar question about sealing cracks in pavements. It's it's my understanding that that is would be a maintenance strategy. In addition to what Millon overly that by providing ceiling of the cracks and between Millon overlays, you. >> You know you get you prevent water intrusion. You get more life out of that spot. You don't you don't have to. And that's kind part of that maintenance. But it is it my understanding that we aren't its only we're not currently doing that. We're only doing Nolan overlay. Could you clarify like which

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of the pavement improvements changes were actually doing? >> Madam Chair, Councilmember. There's a distinction between seal coating and I I thought council president asked about coating specifically and then there's crack sealing yes and correct. cracked is still performed. It, you know, throughout the system. And that's I think it's still funny. am saying that some Cup relay want to chime >> Graham was super intended

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for street maintenance. So with a silk road we're not doing, that's where we would put a full layerf a coat on the street cracking cracks. We do feel most the time were doing that were doing repairs in the area. We know there is a big crack there most the time we do that when we're cuts, which is where they cut square hole in the street and stuff like that. So yeah, we do put sell it in there that but as a city overall, I just

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going out everyone at this time. We are not doing that. >> OK, so you do tis Still the cracks only if you have a project near. It's not part of the general all of the streets as of right And I guess I'd be curious if we were to do that. What would the cost be and how would it prolong the life of the road and what would be the costs if there's a cost savings that would important. That would be for because part I can say With doing it. If

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prolonged waters, though so a long as the street, Thank you for. thank you. Madam Chair, Councilmember taking all this information and Solis is frantically writing all these things down in the audience. And so we'll come back with numbers. So you have to. >> Thank you. Yeah, no, I really appreciate being here. Being able to hear from folks that are doing the hand. So I just really appreciate that piece to it adds like faces behind names I would share. point as well. I look forward to kind of being able to share some of the work that gets may or may not be that staff may

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or may not be getting current credit for. And so get a lot of complaints that a lot of folks that go through and maybe their focus on that one particular road. But also if we're seen that you know, we know that staff is doing the roads nearby, move over with in the streets that are on quote, unquote list of things to do. You know how better tell that? I think it's going to be really important just because that. I didn't know that if you bought a project, you also look at the neighboring streets and other places, too. I think that's a really valid point to share with people. thank you, Madam Chair. You're really not much >> I'm really excited about

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what's coming. So to me is team has been working on as you go proactively kind of circling the area to see what they can also fell. And we're working on a map that can be shared with the public. It's not ready either. So again, the kinks are worked out, but it is showing the response to complaints number of potholes that have been filled and then adding and that information too about those potholes that we're proactively feeling as well. So it's coming soon to, you know, City Web site near where we're not quite there

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yet. >> And I think it's impressive to see the number of particles that actually are the field and the work that is being done. And when I looked at the map and went, wow, I didn't know we were doing such a great job. while you're human cost. Thank you. And congratulations on your new role with the public works. Team. And yes, the thing, you they for you. Any person that can make trash. Same, exciting and under of all the way that you can can definitely make sure that the story is told around operations were care, public works. I think it's so important that we hear able to accurately reflect just the work that folks are doing that

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is it hard its manual and its labor. So we appreciate you know that word, too. When I look forward to being able to share that map out when we could. Any other questions from my colleagues for him, literally the But like most of people that part of we have them. >> Okay. question from council president. actually wasn't asking them with the invitation. You know, I care is 2 minutes find any very quick break and travel update on the new mix that allows us to help potholes and winter. As you can thank you, Madam Chair, Councilmember AV the best team. So I'm going to

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turn it to them. Like with the real stuff, not the >> To well. The first thing I want you guys know to something that isn't on were not able put on a list for you a lot of times we go to areas that we haven't got calls can take care of that area where 400 people in that neighborhood made that call report. So that's something does not track that. We want to let you kw, too. We do look at it every area, make sure you know, they're not calling. We have supervisors drive in that section. The machine you're talking about is our gala. So with that process allows us to do is we

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have a lot of not a lot. We do have some waste when it comes to ask ball back the trucks down at the end of the day and they don't put in one of our yards. So with this machine were able to take it in mostly in the winter. put it in this machine and it will heat it up and recycle it so we can use it again. How that helps us is to less waste that we have to pay to get rid of. Other thing is we're using. We've made cold mix. Cold mix isn't a

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permanent fix. So we're able to use a more permanent fix with the recycled asphalt plant potholes. And then the next in the spring. It's more. It's still there. So the cold mix comes right back out and we have more potholes that we have to take care of at that time. So it helps in a way of yes, Les waste and a she's a permanent cause potholes you can permanently fix, but it helps spring. So it isn't coming out of the hole and we don't we have less >> thank Well, we really appreciate all of your time.

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And for folks being here today and just being able to answer the questions and and trek with us in this discussion. Again, the reason why these topics are brought up was because they were similarly amongst the council as priorities for this by the cycle as well. So doing that scene, all that we see the work that you all are doing and want to continue to invest in it, be understand that the problem itself takes both of us, rely repairs and them on a related multiple process. But we hope to see and be a part of the strategy with you. So thank you guys so much for making the time.

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Thank you very much. Madam Chair and council members for having us here today. It's important for all those great people who do great work to be able to share some of what they're doing. thank you very Appreciated. >> With nothing else in front of us, just want to give a shout out to council vice president I hope your budget engagement event went really well last week. I mean, yesterday, and I look forward to hearing about it will continue to promote the others from that are coming up we enter in the budget to Thank you guys. We are adjourned.