Good morning, everyone. We're excited today to a presentation that I know we've all been looking forward to. Downtown revitalization is one of our citywide council priorities and as I said on Monday, I'm really grateful to my colleagues for how much all of us have claims downtown as our own, because it really is not just a word issue downtown us, the economic engine and heart of our city. And there's a lot of work going on, to revitalize it. And I think sometimes that work is not very visible. And so I'm really grateful today to have director we see with departments inspections to talk to us about the sum of the city's work on downtown buildings and downtown revitalization. And then to have just Spencer from the Downtown Alliance and Dave
Higgins, new executive director of the Downtown Development Corporation to speak to about some of the work that they're doing as well. And director to join director. We see. So with that, do we see? Welcome taken Thank you. Council PRESIDENT Morning into sea director of safety and inspections and going to talk first property Risk management task that we have in the city to address some of the issues that we're seeing. So just want start with can with the challenge statement is that was facing us just the recognition that there are several deteriorating buildings stand in the downtown area and they identified as at risk for a variety of And one of the situations we found ourselves in is that we had a bunch of information coming our way and a bunch of people really energize t address the issues
that we're seeing. We needed a way to harness all of that more effective. Fay. So we created this property Risk management task force and it is led by Dsi. And I see this is that not updated version, but that's The really we want to gather the information. We want to make decisions that are effective and efficient and we need it at least weekly, sometimes more depending on what is going on and to gather all that information, determine what we're going to do with it. If now is the right time to make a decision or for sharing awareness. So getting information, you see from the composition, it is all hands
on deck. So they have at least one person from each of these groups on the call every single week, sometimes more depending on what the different roles are within that department and what's going on. So our objectives are to keep downtown buildings safe. And I should say these objectives mean different things in different situations. So these are these are goals, but to keep building safe, keep Skyway is safe and accessible. Keeps stakeholders informed support, tenant transitions and that includes both commercial and residential. And then minimize the generation. Tat property would remain in this at-risk state. So some of our active work is securing unsafe buildings, helping businesses transition. Then preparing. So legal or emergency tools they use admin wants as an example. But there are several tools in
our tool box. And again, they vary depending on the situation in the building. And then also just keeping maps and our messaging updated. This note commonly misunderstood because I get these kind of questions a lot and there's a perception that we own these properties and that we can like essentially take them over there's very strong constitutional language about about property rights, so so much so that they just shortened to call it taking Sophie. Very cognizant of people's property rights fear not. Here to infringe on them. And we're very, very cognizant of our rights and abilities versus the property rights. And just to note that the city
does not have administrative citations. So there is no penalty fees for non compliance, everything that we do every all the energy that we put into anything that we're looking these buildings is purely cost recovery. It's gotten questions of. Plan penalize ing owners for their behavior. There there is no penalty that is available to city at this time. So just wanted to cover some key terms. Again, this kind of hearkens back to questions that I receive. It has a talk about this work with We have a couple Internal city process is that could confuse with some state or processes that people are familiar with. Revocation of the certificate or for specific of occupancy
is really largely generated from long-term non-compliance. And it essentially it says that you can't use the building so. Sometimes a replication is it for long to noncompliance is just because the building isn't thing is there's no tere's nothing particularly wrong with it. It's just that we don't inspect empty buildings for occupancy because being used. So essentially it says you can't use the building for occupancy. Condemnation. It still with the first the ticket of occupancy program. But really, this is a statement of something being unfit or unsafe for human habitation. And could be for a variety of reasons. It could be structural. It could be sanitary. It could be that there is not a basic utilities. Those are in
contrast to the rgister vacant building program, not everything that gets revoked or condemned will end up in the vacant building program. So. There is a handoff often between our for years to back. If if the inspectors to are vacant building inspectors, that particularly with commercial property or large buildings. There's a change of hands and the it's an active ownership change. And so we don't move things to the vacant building program as we're just waiting for that exchange to happen. The South. We give some time anywhere from like 90 days to a year. Usually where fire certificate of occupancy inspectors are monitoring and an occupied or condemn states state and if needed, it will move over to the vacant building. Much a
program. And there is a life cycle of the buildings something comes out of the vacant building program. Getting prmits and the contractor getting while the utilities are started and remedying to defer any deficiencies there, but made it into that that state. Lastly, I just wanted to mention receivership is see this question. It's this is not a city action. It's a it's an action through the courts and it's usually initiated by a lnder. But it could a tenant. And really the asked the court says, too, appoint somebody else to be responsible for the property. So funds that were coming to the property owner come to the appointed receiver and then receiver makes decisions on the building for. A thing for
repairs to enhancements. And they're usually doing that in conjunction with the for especially some larger ticket item, something that would cost for 5 figures. Question from his Bowie. Thank you. Chair. Current PRESIDENT And director easy about receivership. Can you and? Cher is area examples of the court's appointing the to be property owners properties. Well, I say property problem property, but can you also sure some examples that the courts have a, you know, a plant. The city here, a local mentality as property owner. Present its memory to my knowledge, that's not. Not something we're requesting are not property managers. I don't
know like historically if if cities have asked to be the appointed receiver, but we never. Asking for it to be the appointed receiver. They're not. Property managers. We're not looking to acquire these properties. There. Not looking to be property managers other than things like libraries and parks fire stations police stations. We're not looking to private property managers. So there hasn't been. Sample and it had been time where the city or that the courts have a point to type of government entity to be property owners of a when you mention receivership. So that's just only from like one party when private party to another private party, never to a public party. Can
surprising considering I actually don't know the answer to that question because it's a legal history question. I'm and case law and that's not my expertise. Yes, thank I I my question is kind of an online a little bit, that comes Bowie in the sense of just one of the things that we get asked, time the city make a play in downtown buildings like, you know, there's certain things going on downtown. And why doesn't the city step in to actually like acquire property are like try ad basically savage buildings. And so I think that was kind of on the lines. And I had a similar question of just like why are we in the a poverty management or in any sort of like interventions space when we have properties that
potentially are properties that and my understanding right now, especially where we are currently, this has to be a lot of buildings that, well, several dozen buildings that have been closing sometimes and dress for him ad they make make headlines. I'm a big news. I'm and I'm just kind of wondering just what meeting the time where we're at I love You know, just aspect of the property the the task force, but I'm just kind of wondering, Mike. What are we thinking for the futuristic part of our downtown lawsuit what role does play if it's not in property management, what is it in relation to like when we have buildings like the building that close, but very with very little notice but are substantially behind and billing in other parts of that like could you just share a little bit about how you guys are saying that the task force, what kind conversations are being had and just like. Your knowledge to the state about how the city has been
attracted the situations. think it's actually that creates a great to my my next slide. And I'm sure our prayers at downtown Atlanta have a different take on this. But our goal. And if you go back to one of those objectives was to have these at-risk state for as sort of time as possible. And and, you know, one of the reasons that we're not interested in being property managers is because we aren't. It's not expertise or not. We're not marketing properties were not. We're not managing private leases again in very small areas of the city government. We are doing second center. Unit is leasing of parks property. That's long-term lease. They've been there for a decade or more. That's the type of property
management that the that the city conducts not property management of high rate structure Downtown Saint Paul. So our focus is to have these be at risk for a short a time as possible in our decisions are aligned with that goal in mind. So from OCTOBER, we've seen at least 3 sales of these buildings. We know that there are several purchase agreements that are in process now. These are all good things to us because as long as they're in private hands and we get a responsible party. And they're also still on the tax rolls. If the city were to purchase this property because tax exempt that in the long run help our I don't try in the same way that private ownership would. We've been able to turn it to support the tenant transitions, which has
been a really big focus of ice and the other piece is just staying nimble with our communication chain to over, communicate, try to communicate, recognize the different audiences that relate to downtown downtown's all over the country are very complex. Ours no different. We have a very strong presidential. Population in downtown. Ad it's not every neighborhood that has, you know where you live is also where like the largest events in city have fun and people conduct business. So we have work lending all of those things for for the future of our downtown. We have at least 5 buildings in receivership and again to us, that's a good thing. We've converted from and non responsible non responsive Party to a responsible party. And I winter clothes and just saying that leaders. Thought leaders
in Saint saw this coming. And if which is kind of my Segway to to the downtown Alliance and the downtown investment strategy. The the win might, it might be a surprise. You know, certain things happen. But overall picture here was not a So groundwork is being laid it to be able to. Make this transition and a kind of make it akin to the grieving process. And just because you get to acceptance doesn't mean that you agree with with action that's that's taking place. And one in MAY. If you've ever rceived a grief card for me, it would have this court in and it's there can be an upside to the downside and it lives alongside of it. And we have a lot of downside happening right now that we're trying to manage and deal with it at the
same time fully prepared to move forward and work with that upside. That's coming on. And That means it Mathias. I also pivots to help with things like permits, making sure that people can be successful in their new locations and what they want to do. The future, these buildings. Thank just second question. This was a little bit from the composition of the task Are the plans to kind of share back with council? I know that they're not. I don't. I'm not sure the council has presence on this at all. And if not, then what is the communication MAY look like from the task force to the council. So we actually know what's happening there since we are at the table. Because PRESIDENT To want to address You can go ahead. As a council member I'm in regular communication of
console. PRESIDENT Maker about our work the task force. We have a standing meeting to cover it. She's also part of my regular communication. Whenever communicating to the proper. Stakeholders, if it's don't own partners are residents sure to include cuts PRESIDENT, making those communications. I think it might be worthwhile as well to also include the House and redevelopment Authority and those same type of communications. Mean, right now I am the chair, but in the future and even just throughout, I think the housing redevelopment Authority for the city should definitely be able to get those updates beyond just the forward lines like I with respect to council PRESIDENT And your leadership like I feel pretty confident about that. But just in the space of being able to have the eatery,
which does occupy it on property here downtown. And I would say that's probably a stakeholder in that space. It would be really great to also the in the loop on that. And we don't always get a chance to hear from the public safety inspections as much as we do planning and economic development. But it would be great to know the plans for that. And so I kind of expected later leader a to talk about some of the downtown response in the House and Redevelopment Authority as well. And in part, I think that could be from sessions like this MAY be the updates from the court. Thank Jonathan. And I am I would encourage you to reach out to site if you want to set up regular conversations. I reached out to you. Angie, to request that and you're welcome to join te ones we have core set up your own us as you see fit. But I agree that communication is really important in these
issues. That's Thank you. Council PRESIDENT Director of the cia and a couple. A question that one comment because of customer. Johnson calls for police questions regarding like the city taking on some of these properties. And I understand you know, that we're not property managers and when they would, we would no longer collect the property taxes. I think the other thing that came to my mind is then be responsible for the maintenance or bring these properties back up to compliance or code, which I would guess be very expensive, especially in the buildings downtown. But I think brings a question like what is our role? Because you know, the revocation of combination, condemnation of these buildings where they their fires certificate occupancy, they can no longer be occupied
and we had situations where where residents and tenants have been displaced and it's a it's a hge deal. And so I think our will I think our role is like, how can we prevent that from happening? And from what I can tell, I don't know if there are any other, you know, things that Dsi is able to do. But question is beyond and administrative citations, like what else is there that yes, even do to bring properties into compliance to prevent that from happening. 4. Also, this assumes that, you know, losing it, the fire sent to pick occupancy. It's something that the property manager finds detrimental a very harmful to them. But if that's not the case, w really are kind of running out of options. That's my questions. Like what else could we even do beyond that? Because I think preventing us from even getting to that point is is where we you that's where we might have the most part to do
something about it. Council PRESIDENT, a Kurd councilmember, jst I appreciate the question as you MAY know, for your safety inspections is baby and its first and foremost, a prevention program. So we are here talking about today is how many buildings be prevented from this being at risk to begin with identifying issues early by bing either proactive inspections responding to complete inspections. And you are correct that normally the keeping the fire certificate of occupancy is is the biggest carry a tune of the biggest motivator of making those corrections because they care about their investment and they need to keep their investment. We're running into it. A few situations here where that's not enough. And that's where something like
administrative citations, not that it would have changed the outcome. I think it would have identified the future. The thing that we can do that we are doing buying time. So we saw that with alliance paying Chris working with our utility partners to extend the timeline that they were willing to keep the utilities on an order to give the tenants time to find locations for think was possible. Those obviously are still very hard conversations and very hard news. Very unexpected expenses and same thing happened with the Lowry. We It ptentially could have had like a 48 hour turnaround time then being - displaced. And instead we 5 weeks of time, which again still not enough, but it's better than it would have One of issues that we haven't goes
back to the property rights is that we can't take over something for. There actually hasn't been a deficiency. S the end, even the utilities, they'll give a shutoff notice. But if the owner comes in day of the show after it is and settles there, Bill. The utility remains on. So effect, we can't take action and tell their spending something that happened. Thanks for Appreciate the point that administrative citations which thrown around this table kows that. I've been a strong advocate for specifically because of the need to have a really effective tool with very large property owners downtown. It would be so helpful MR. Thanks. PRESIDENT Maker, I'm just going to serve as a very large parent to your last point and just. I'm at. I just cannot state strongly enough. How
frustrating is that? The city has been without this tool and that's a fault of. Previous councils of the fact that it takes a long time to get this. An administrative citations were on the table years ago when I was an aide and a single councilmember was able to stymie that effort. And now we've had years and years and years without effective tools for our city staff to use. I think people don't appreciate the sensitivity to see process creates for U.S. Department staff. The pressure. That you weren't able to name but I will name is that building owners are fully aware that the city has to care about the public good and the tenants in that building being displaced and they know that the city will take that
heat if we were voca see whether it's residential commercial, any of those issues, the pressure on the city when that city departments to make that staff as they are technically the ones causing all of this displacement of people out of their homes. People of this small businesses. And so there's this gigantic piece of leverage. These property owners have where they know the city asolutely does not want to revoke a and create so much displacement. So much uncertainty, so much harm for these residents and small businesses. And so not only do we not have administrative citations for departments at to use, we also the only tools we do have are hampered by an absurd amount of inertia leverage that the property
owner has. S are department staffer effectively fighting with 2 arms tied behind their back and essentially wth their legs tied and there's nothing to be done in almost all the situations just because of the systems we set up for them to use. And so I'm I'm glad you spoke to a directory. See, I'm really glad you spoke to a council. PRESIDENT Maker and I know this current council, you know, shortly before I arrived, I'm so thankful that this current council passes unanimously and it can be, you know, at least on the table. And I know we have challenges with going forward, but I just cannot state strongly enough how much it harms the ability to run a modern city to protect our tenants, to protect our commercial and residential tenants downtown across the city. It is unbelievably frustrating that
we have not had modern tools for our city staff to be able to use. And so I just want to strongly support both you said Director ec my Council colleagues and also frankly think the current council for passing those when they did because despite pickups, we're going to have for the picture that, you know, for the remainder of the year. Whenever I I just we eventually need these in place cannot be stated enough. How ridiculous it is help them. Frankly. Thanks asking. Garcia very there questions for Doesn't look like if I want to thank you, director received from making some of the work visible like I saying earlier. I think the fact that your team meets weekly. To talk with these properties is not something people necessarily know And so I think knowing that it is top
of mind for you and so many other departments is really important. I also appreciate the definition of terms because I think we're using a lot of terms. We're hearing a lot of terms of the media. I think receivership, for example, is one that could sound really bad and scary. And hearing you say actually, in this case often work, grateful that the properties in receivership because that means it's in better hands. That's important, I think to hear. So thank you for your presentation. And I recognize that we started out a little bit of a down note regulation, moving to think it's better to go in this direction. Don't go too far to stick up for questions. But thank you for your presentation and will welcome to MISTER Spencer. And decade. Was ativated yesterday. Thank you. Council PRESIDENT
Maker members of the council. My name is Joe Spencer PRESIDENT Xi pull Downtown Alliance and I'm grateful for the time to. To talk about this work that we've been undertaking. At the risk? But just maybe even the burden of reiterating things you all probably know. I think it's useful to set the context for this conversation with the very beginning of the sample downtown alliance. We were launched 2018 and And as we launch, I was the first staff person we started by just looking around the country to see what are other downtown organizations doing? What's what's the essential role? What are best practices for these kinds of organizations? And we learned a couple of things right away. What the first and most kind of obvious is that.
As a city. We're very late to the party in terms of creating a downtown organizations are counterparts downtown Minneapolis have had their downtown council in place 6 or 7 decades. So we're just getting ourselves up to speed and in those not quite 7 years of the first order of business was, again, the most ubiquitous program for downtown organizations is the safe and clean city's call that a business improvement district. We call ours downtown improvement district. You know the history because you just approved this last year. But I just want share. Our gratitude for your
support. Not only in approving a special service district, our downtown improvement district, but also participating. Ad paying your fair share for the city on properties that safe and clean program. Can't be underestimated as a tool to help with this very conversation that work we're talking about today so that that new the idea that you approved last has been rolling out starting in JANUARY, takes a little while for us to get our staffing up where close to where we want to But we're still still in early stages of getting that wrapped up. But that is that was kind of the first order of business really for the downtown alliance. We're also are involved in and things like marketing and activations and supporting
things like roller disco in Rice, Parker, supporting Lower Town Townsend, Mears, Parker, Happy Hour events and the kinds of things that activate our public spaces is essential and again, sharing good stories and marketing and branding for the downtown's all key part of what we do. And as yu'll know when we started in 2018, it wasn't long after when the world fell apart due to the pandemic. And we immediately pivoted to the kind of triage work needed to respond to that emergency. But in 2022, we could see. We could see essentially this moment that was just described by director. We should we could see this coming looking around the country at at trends for commercial real estate looking at our on trends within downtown and the kind of facts on the ground.
We could see. Diminishing commercial real estate property values. We could see the flight to quality having a particular impact and a real threat to to downtown Saint Paul. And so initiated downtown investment strategy with with support from the city's pd department helping to fund that along private foundation dollars. That we presented last year are finished MARCH of last year. We released the sinkhole downtown investment strategy and that strategy articulated 3 kind of primary components. First find a way to accelerate commercial to residential conversion, especially in the core. The second piece was to improve the streetscape on key connecting corridors would have to get all the black faces in downtown right. We do have to get a great
streetscape on those connecting corridors. And then the 3rd piece was to advocate for and really make progress on some key. Large projects, including central station, the river's edge and the entertainment district surrounding a renovated arena. So as we release that in MARCH, we started to make the pivot into implementation and the most active really pressing need was the changes in the commercial commercial real estate. And so that the committee structure that put together had some great leadership from council PRESIDENT Maker as well a per soldier, the ceo of of Security. And we started to dig into how do we actually
make this implementable? At that point, we're also looking around the country were not the only downtown to have experienced the kind of crisis of of real estate and what were the most effective tools. And we see We see this model for downtown Development Corporation. It's not everywhere. It's not ubiquitous like the downtown improvement districts are. But these these development, corpse have been very effective. We also look into our own history and Saint Paul, 1978. We saw the launch of the lower town Redevelopment Corporation led by waiving low that organization was tremendously effective at at stimulating and shepherding a hall. Kind new era for lower town and really creates one of the great strength for downtown Saint Paul in the the lower town area. So we had that model and our own history and around the country. And so earlier this
year. We launched a new subsidiary organization under the Downtown Alliance. Paul, the same Paul Downtown Development Corporation. And the first order of business was to find the staff leadership to really carry this load. And as council PRESIDENT Can attest. I began to reach the conclusion we were looking for such a skill set that I thought it might. We MAY, in fact, be looking for unicorn that MAY not exist without when we needed somebody who is going to come in with a real estate law expertise because we knew their son for any issues. Around some of our. Particular sites in downtown. We knew we needed somebody with. Private sector. Development experience, somebody who would know the U.S. But no this world inside and out. But also somebody ideally who had experience with public private partnerships because we know we're frankly going to need
your help and w're going to need to navigate these waters together. And so come to the conclusion that just MAY need to settle on. Maybe a few different people bring all these different expert. He says together. But along the way after dozens, if not hundreds of conversations trying to explore this world. We met a fella that I'm gonna introduce to you now. Dave Higgins and steps into the role as PRESIDENT Of the Saint Paul Downtown Development Corporation. He has all of those expert. He says I describe, should he? Has a bit of his career in real estate. Of his career began at the Boston Redevelopment Authority. And then most recently here in Minnesota over the last 12 or so years as a private developer working for some of the largest and most reputable. Companies in town. And so I'm really
thrilled to get to introduce you to Dave Higgins. What's coming up, David, kind of walk us through some of what we're working on together. I'll jump in from time to time. It will be available for questions as well. I want to point out that the image on the screen here isn't something we generated. That's actually that came from the Rams counties. They're planning work and they brought from to essentially. Analyze the property values. For for the city of Saint Paul and Ramsey County. And you can see here really the tremendous value and importance of downtown from a property value frankly, property tax value standpoint. So I just wanted give credit where credit is due for that slide. And now
happy to introduce the 8h Welcome, MISTER Good Morning. Council. PRESIDENT Nature council members appreciate the opportunity to. come before you today, help with what's going on downtown and hopefully broader impacts that has throughout the city and obviously the downtown. This is an impact economically and otherwise for for the county and the It's a tall our capital city at the end of the day. So just want to thanks, Joe, the opportunity to. Step into this role and and and take us on very exciting opportunity. And despite the challenges, I feel like it's a mountain of opportunity for for the broader market who will do a lot of the work at
the end of the day. So I'm gonna run through some kind of background context. And then and then walk some of our calls. Big-picture goals. And then some big-picture strategy initiatives. It's early on. And that's, you know, from the work that you all running cities, see building cities takes time and we're mindful of of opportunities that are short term. And we're also recognizing that really the mission here we're trying to bring solutions that are. Or 50 7500 your solutions for this area and not just. That's that's a 2 or quick hits to a three-year hit cricket solution that that we regret down te road obviously the floor is yours. Also
interrupted time of questions fundamentally, when we talk about downtown revitalization. There's a lot of instinct to think about our own personal experiences cause we all have hand. And when we think revitalization, we think about naturally vitality and that experience And it Experience very much a component, the good work of the alliance and the number city departments to contribute. There are absolutely critical. But fatality is also about. If the people and getting people and growing a city, a healthy city is one that always growing and appropriately. Lots and lots and lots of cities not just in this country, but in other countries tend to be reactive. And that's appropriate when
things are going great economies are humming. Challenges seem to be behind what a community. They can wait. Climates like what's going on in that core of downtown and just going to pop to kind a little bit more of a picture kind of. 3 thirds of downtown. We're focused on the central. Of course, are heard that you guys are super familiar with when you have climates like this, cities need to be proactive. And so part of our high exploring in some instances introducing in facilitating what that what means, what that can be as an opportunity for the city. Downtown's r a and revitalize a number
about more than back back to And they're there about more It's it's really an economic engine. And sometimes it's hard to remember. But the illustration on on the screen really emphasizes. Kind of a of a value relationship, itrinsic personal value. But just when we take about a city budget, economic where revenue comes from. That's a poor. All the great programs that residents we you all selected scare about came into office for want to execute at the end of the day like it or like here now we all have to accept that those those move forward dollars, a lot predominantly. And so where does that come from? Downtown's? Predominantly are the biggest economic engine for cities. And so the opportunities
growth is to. It's a kind of bring that back as a stronger. And I think you and think averages or something like 22%. It typically is what the portion of a city budget. Arrives downtown And were considerably below that. Think at least until some of the Russian federation's hapless was around. 32% are. Low 30's and we closer to it. Ad our low teens and with current valuations that might give or so. How do boost that up? Has an opportunity to support all the things that you folks care about, your voters care about we're confident and you're downtown if we can right-size and And grow, it can can be that engine and we want, you know, we wanted to stay that she engines so that the you know, the purple doesn't shift to the
neighborhoods. Because obviously the budget has come from somebody you know, a number folks as I've come on board, have talked about the tax burden, Rowan. And residents and that sort of thing. And that doesn't just hit homeowners. That hits renters, too. Invariably apartment owners. The way the business is run pop pass through a lot of costs to the renters. Everybody feels that it's not. Its. It's not just a such as a commercial thing. Fundamentally growths. Growth is the answer. It seems like a platitude. Simplistic, but it but it really is a meaningful impact as collateral impacts. It has ripple effects supporting a small business is coming back. Restaurants
coming back and then those pieces as they come together. Being the thing that draw. Office uses back to the downtown. So that's kind context. I think we not sure controlling slights. Day day one. a number of or goals are kind aura of the downtown investment strategy is Joe has noted. That's that's where we come from. In essence, like I said bfore, we're aiming for long-term solutions. And so some of these things will take time. W're happy and excited to stay in communication with the folks. I want to echo my purse kind of our organizational gratitude for. The city support time, embracing revitalization downtown and and the steps that are being taken to death long-term viability is a
key issue. It's going to it's going to be about partnerships and some new Some of those tools are process oriented. Some of those tools are are financial and and part of that process is to really to take a step back and examine how. Kind of the business of of development is done. In its interaction with the public. In hopes of finding some some places when things are coming. You don't have to look at efficiency. But when when things are challenge, there MAY be opportunities there as well. That actually don't cost anything. I think that's a key piece. Well, lots of these initiatives will actually take considerable. Sums of money to be able to finance some of that will certainly come from the private sector and absolutely should. They're going to be
times where apublic private partnership that's necessary to support some of the things that that lead to this turnaround increasing financial resources are. Invariably and exercise that that we we can go through together in the same way that Joe talked about the alliance and the stakeholders. They're looking around the country we're the time in which. Kind of kicking this off is a time when cities around the cuntry have done a lot of the same work. And so we don't have to reinvent the wheel. And that's a really great thing. It's it's it's pretty easy to summarize kind of the the big best practices. Really? It comes down to 2 things. One is is looking at process for
efficiencies and certain types of projects ad and affording those that have the most significant impact to have I already that maybe in in a easy time might not be necessary. And then the other pieces financial resources. Those are the 2 areas that countless cities are are going through. Got a number of examples of what those cities are. But in the interest of time just keep going here. And then Joe said, enhancing the pub pedestrian experience, public realm number 2 in the downtown investment strategy. And I think that's something for people to recognize. 2 is some of these projects. The real tangible nw building projects take a long time and
take take. Turned to designed to to and also get financing together. But what's important about the public Brown, is there going to be things that we can do in the interim? To try to start to evolve. The experience that's associated with this part of the downtown and there are steps that we can take improvements that we can make. want to take the time to do from that are were involved in some of the discussions with the program formally known as mobility attack, which is now the streets and sidewalks program. Perfect example of of collaboration really dedicated to the staff who are doing a great job in, including just an absolute wealth of inputs from a lot of different places and were part of that conversation to help. Shares some of how the real estate
interest rates and how that relationship can be enhanced again, any of these topics happy dig into Joe, do you want just touch on to that point just as a sort of ask as we move forward? I think it's really helpful to have the context and to have the high level. Philosophy behind what your what your work is going to be I think it would also be really helpful to the extent that you can to dive into some of those specifics. Both on what specifically the tdc is going to do, what those other cities are going to are have been doing. I think the more we can get sort of tactical sense of what is actually going to be done, the more helpful, it'll be for the discussion. And and that's fine. Next couple pages servant was right on track and we only have one side less. I wanted to say, Joe, do you want to touch on
this? Just just just to kind of quickly, I want reiterate something, you know, as they talked about the need for resources like. In order to meet this moment. But it's we're going to need subsidy to make a variety of these projects possible. And I think the scale of our challenge here and this is the state line is really only meant by the scale of the opportunity. But it's going to require some real significant kind of sacrifices of investments to make this possible. The reason why we have buildings being boarded up is because people people decided that foot the owners and the banks decided. It's not worth anything. It has a
negative value and it's going to take some real investment to turn that around. Not just for those buildings, but for the ones that surround it. So stepping into just looking at the again that the map going back to the downtown investment strategy. We identified the key connecting corridors. We subsequently study with Gensler and architectural from that has a way of analyzing buildings to score their compatibility for conversion. We also look at can vacancy rates and we look at the the buildings, the Madison Equity Properties and the others that are. In distress. And we see these maps ball overlap in in the core of downtown. And so. Our theory of change here for for the downtown is is when we when we look at it, if we look at everything from cedar to the West, actually see a
downtown environment that's in pretty good shape. We've got we've got strong occupancy in the commercial buildings. We've got a visitor attractions in that part of the downtown that are doing very, very well. We've got good traffic. We've got You know, the the businesses, the store fronts, the restaurants are doing pretty well. Similarly, if we look at the eastern 3rd, everything from Jackson to the east, we've got a lot of residential property. Those apartment buildings have very strong occupancy. The kind of fundamentals. But there are good. And when we look at the trajectory of downtown Saint Paul, if we compared to the last downturn, for example, we have twice as many people living in downtown. We've got attractions like Ghs Field and and the Palace theater. And we've got we've got traffic
that we've never had before. When we really look at it and island, it's the core that is most distressed. And if we think about the journey on 5th Street, one of these key connecting corridors. From Market Street, Washington all the way to to wabasha and even half way down to cedar. That's a pretty strong environment. And then it really kind of falls apart. When we get to see that pedestrian friendly, that we lose the pedestrian friendliness and turned toward something more like. Pedestrian hostility. It's a place you don't necessarily want. It doesn't drop you down, even though they're such great amenities and we get to lower town, we get some ears park in the farmers market. Our opportunity in the thing that is super energizing to me is that if we can just repair a couple of blocks in the
bill, we can stitch together these strong portions of downtown and have an experience where if you stepped out of a show at the ordway be drawn down 5th Street ne want to keep going and explore this fantastic downtown switch to reinvent that core in a way. And we have that opportunity now because because of all of this distress. And that I think is the silver lining to this moment. And so as Dave is about to talk about the specific strategies got quick question. Time. We have to 11, 30. And we're still in early days were just a couple months. And so as you have questions of Dave or is he describes Keep in mind, we're very much early days and kind of getting ourselves up to speed and again, I'll turn it back over
to him. Stand by for more questions of happen. Welcome back up Best thank you. PRESIDENT Maker in. To Joe's most recent point, I just really other than globally being very excited both about the report that was done all the effort that went into it and the new Development Corporation. I just want to really specifically know the point that MR. Spencer just made, which is people like me who are on the extreme and I'm willing to walk 10, 15 blocks of Moon Rock more than a mile to go between destinations. All do bizarre. I'm fully on fringe of the spectrum of willing to be a pedestrian and no matter how hostile place. I mean, I walk around downtown Omaha, which is the only city have ever been to where the streets are even wider than
Saint Paul's downtown streets. But normal want to go. One or 2 blocks are at Max 3 blocks and the value of using 5th Street as a very pedestrian focus. Pined, for example, in connecting. The different parts of the downtown is that you're not just benefitting 5th Street where you're creating as an entire corridor. 6 blocks wide, 3 bucks on other side that now all of a sudden has gravity and magnetism because a normal person will walk down 5th because it's very pleasant and they're willing to lok to their left or the right and see something that they make a checkout. But they would have never accidentally found that small restaurant or that small shop. That sells the, you
know, the dog sed stuff show and what you'd ever see that unless you accidentally have the chance to see it. And so the point of making those corridors. So aggressively pedestrian friendly, I think is so important. And it also speaks to the fact of certain things in this are going to be very expensive and other things like, for example, shutting down Street requires planning by emergency services requires planning. But you can shut down the street with 15 jersey barriers. You know, we could go bg hunks of concrete and all the sudden at planters. And we weigh more pleasant than it right now. And so I just want I really appreciate naming that because the pedestrian friendliness is what everyone loves when they go to the state fair, Disneyland or they go to Europe or they go to New York
or they do all these things and then they come back to Saint Paul and we pretend it's not something we can do here. And the truth is we don't have to invent the way to make neighborhoods pleasant and desirable. Everyone, vacations and does things all the time and their leisure time. You can do it every day. And so I just want to name how critical that is. Because it's the solutions are not complicated than some of them aren't. Even that. Difficult. You just have to decide to do them. So I just want to name that. So appreciate that. Being court your comments are well taken councilmember there. It's sort of like building alliance building downtown development corporation. And what are the tools? The examples are out And so.
Council PRESIDENT In terms of what the strategic initiatives are high level and they are high level. That's not always. Is fun at a time where people want to see change. They are in process of being established and they will have a process of being implemented and fine tuned. Property redevelopment is a fundamental component. To where we hve the opportunity to be effective. That takes a few different forms. In a climate like this as everybody is experiencing the private sector is not rushing forward. The most challenging properties thankfully commission director. We see noted some of the properties that are more compelling to the market are beginning a process of transacting. That's
great. And it's tstament to the quality of the assets the quality of broader protection and demand for Saint Paul. But on some of those challenging the markets not Russian forward. One of the one of the key reasons their cheeky reasons why organizations, a nonprofit one w we will have access to a broader spectrum of capital. But but as important as that is, a nonprofit has the ability to mission to be mission-driven as opposed to bottom line in the first $0.10 and sometimes market need. Projects that are sometimes referred to as loss leaders. It's often considered in the context of convention centers are stadiums where you project MAY come in and intrinsically. I particularly convention centers in in their
own financial operation or necessarily. A profit source. All of the collateral benefits that come from them. And making up the difference. And so within the context of real estate assets, if there's a project that the private market is not interested But as a catalyst in this critical. Being in a nonprofit allows us to come in and make the case for why it's a critical asset. And, for example, some of the buildings on the core of downtown. In the heart. If they are today's bad news, they also have the opportunity to be tomorrow's goodness. And so being in a position to facilitate or be an actor is important. And so we're nonprofits so that if in the right circumstances with
certain properties, the market continues to not come forward. Then we can be in approach it participant. Circumstance where we could step forward and take on a project that might not the. In the private market financially feasible in a traditional sense, the way that happens is repeating to its have much more money. So there's property redevelopment there's intangible things that are not building. They're not a piece of paper sometimes or a piece paper, but usually not. And that's the key partnerships we need us as as as we've experienced in the number of meetings today, Council PRESIDENT, there are a lot of stakeholders that need to stay at the table and engage resources to make
projects happen. Stay close to each other in various departments and bodies government was work relates. Those are a constant part of the work so that everybody is aware of priorities and has the ability to help create efficiency everywhere. Possible. That part of it's not exciting for a lot of people. I recognize that and it's it's not a project that you can walk into or skyway that you can traverse, but that's integral to making this happen in the same way. He experience in doing your work balancing priorities. Advancing initiatives. That's a huge piece of this for us. And then again, as I mentioned, there's policy and process opportunities
potentially for streamlining and we have conversations with staff about that. We're really excited about the administration's we're planning efforts and have had the opportunity Hear about some of those. See some of the high level works there naturally. This the climate for downtown's and and is is the dependency on office that creates a lot of challenge with the changes hybrid work experience and so the way the way cities become healthier is to have a x, the turnarounds happen in a sequence, it starts with residential and that's a huge focus. As as the mayor noted in the state of the city address, resident residential occupancy downtown's north of 90% whereas offices, got a vacancy of us well over 30%. And so we need to go where the demand
is. But it's not jst where the numbers are demand was. We need the people downtown. We need them here. It's it's experience. It's eyes on the street. It's it's supporting businesses. All of that is about growing population. And so being proactive around that concept, advancing housing, you know, making it a place that's that's easy to do work. Fed wants the growth. That's what the market needs to know. Jones touched on the adaptive reuse and conversions. That's an area of focus for us Saint Paul, as as as the Gensler Studies hve shown, fortunately as a number of buildings that score pretty well spatially. That's the first step is whether space works and there's a whole
bunch of other work that we have to do and we're going to dive that is evaluating those buildings from a structural standpoint from the, you know, building systems standpoint, renovation standpoint, working with contractors to price all of that work its its the nitty-gritty. Just. I had a question about the council PRESIDENT MR. Higgins, the as you're talking about the adaptive reuse ad conversions. He said there's a study by Gensler Architects about the just like a conversion score. My question is, are, is that only architectural considerations or does that also include lake? You know, you mentioned structural potentially being separate percent include structural mechanical, like all the other aspects of the building. Design.
That study is really just a first cut on looking at the space to see if the space works. And so it's it's the next phase of kind of really the nitty-gritty of development evaluation and feasibility. That is one of the key steps for a spring in the and engineering contracts. Mechanical and electrical contractors to evaluate the building and then figuring out how it pices and and whether it makes sense to do or use or if it makes sense to really start over with the site in in a different condition. So a lot of that. Follow on work is most of the work. The work of Gensler is a very high level. Initial look at whether spatial you Burke standing. So it's a lot of that follow-on work. That is part of what
we're doing. Then Mr comes before you keep going to follow him. It's just question and the exchange we had a structure weezy earlier. That level analysis, isn't possible unless we have. Control of that building, right? The value aiding its mechanicals and such. Are you saying that the Downtown velopment Corporation is doing that on a variety of buildings own? So there's there. There's more than one option. That's not necessarily say controlled or again. Back to the topic of partnerships. There can be opportunities to work wth landowners who MAY be either don't have motivation. Resources initiative funds to move something like that for with them by themselves. But they might the open tonight getting in the way of that happening and might be willing
to partner and provide access. Some of were talking about doing is is being a direct actor just like any other developer. But we're also trying to do a lot of other things, too. Facilitate the process for the private market. Step up. The private market at this has it and put a lot of these properties. And so there are ways in which we can get them a little bit closer First interested, then curious, then. Then best. So some of that as we're in the midst of writing a housing study. Housing study, csts, you know, anywhere from 7 or $8,000 to 15 to $20,000. We're taking that problem off the table. Those take 50 is 45 50, 60 days? We're taking that time off the table. We're putting together a house and say that will make available to the market. So information's
In terms of doing some of this analysis. We need doing it under our charitable mission. has no return. But can be a catalyst for somebody else in the private market to take a look at that information to save them. To save money. These are the things that are world blocks to develop moving forward. And the and the last piece that you wrote about the money. And we're borrowing a model exists some other cities. Where we're recognizing this takes considerable funds. And so we're in the process of starting to resent downtown investment fund that has the opportunity to provide additional capital that the market just doesn't have right now to bridge those gaps. But it's it's it's very similar to
what the public sector does in that regard in cities all over the country. And show no, it will be a component here. And so that's a key of a time and effort for and will be a key piece for some of these projects to move forward make progress. And then the last piece is one more tangible. And I would I would say that's really the really the narrative about Saint Paul. And it's really important because, you know, it's a rich, the rich history and culture and civic pride in Saint Paul is is is around. You know, Saint Saint Paul built itself. Saint Paul takes care of Saint Paul's problems and can solve everything internally there's a huge opportunity here as Joe's the
scale of what's available different. Relative to the size of the downtown here compared to what usually available in other cities that cuts both ways that huge opportunity takes a lot of capital, but it's also. If the messaging is right is an opportunity for the broader national market to actually pay attention and pick their head up and take a look at this opportunity. And we have the potential to bring not only more capital. But a whole lot more ideas, creativity, a diversity to what the product is and how we get there. And I think part of the work of our organization is working with public say colder is working with some of the private
sector leadership. And in some of these process opportunities that we see also some of these funding opportunities we see. The broader markets. think to themselves at some point, too. Hey, there's playbook for Saint Paul. It's a clear political support. There's financial support. This feels like a new chapter Saint Paul. We want to be a part of that. I think that's that's a narrative shift that we think is a huge opportunity here. And that takes the work is. Working with folks like yourselves working city staff and working with the the private development investment, brokerage lender, community, all those folks, all input to what's possible here. And if we can
incorporate those varied perspectives. We can create a new narrative that goes beyond where it is today. Which is pretty challenging. Thank you. I think just in its belly. Thank you. Council PRESIDENT, MR. Higgins, I a follow-up to the question before. So I understand that the. The scoring for the Gensler did is more. So just kind of the first step. Very initial. It's not really the level of like looking at the space probably the heightened square footage. But it's not the level of like a feasibility study to not related to costs. Just should we even go that route? The question I have is about like when it comes to the adaptive reuse of these buildings, some of these
buildings are 50 75 years old and a lot of times with with making these modifications, you you find things in the building that you weren't expecting to find them and they cost more money or you have to bring the building up to code in a way that is expensive. It takes a lot of effort. And so what are the ways that? You can entice developers to to take that on when there's some risk associated with that and especially some costs with with some of projects. I mean, if you, for example, you know, the cost of that feasibility study is a lot of money to pay the different disciplines to do that. You know, then so developers that might be purchasing a proud that property might know like. Well, you know, maybe this is, you know, maybe not as high risk is. I thought so. I guess that's kind of the the concern
I have around question around how we can can still get those those projects moving. Yeah, great question. Council member. This this is this is a perfect question for kind of the different roles 2 of the different roles that we can play in this process. We have to the reason. Folks, hesitate. Based risk in return. don't know about a needs to be filled they they have. 100 questions and they need answers to all of them. That takes time and money. As you, as you rightly noted, and then there's also the market house. The market doing. And so people look at those 2 things. And so we can be useful in
providing a lot of those studies and then. Essentially work with them. Are the market. And kind of test what works? What were excused me? What we're finding through those studies to gauge whether or not interest is rising. As we take some of those questions off the table and because taking those questions always taking risk away. That can get people to come forward. But if it's not happening, that's where we can kind of step into that role as an active developer because the solution there to the very same problem here highlighting is. If we're able to show the market. Before they're ready, a successful project that was really incredibly challenging from a financial standpoint, a process standpoint, construction and engineering
standpoint. That will help with the narrative about Saint Paul. It will establish the demand that we know is here in the market and will be one more significant project to move forward and that gets attention. And that creates not just a curiosity, but it creates interests. And then that stretch create demand in confidence. And that's when you have people coming in to do more. New development. And we do feel that's key for downtown Saint Paul. There's a number of great properties just the Madison portfolio alone. But throughout downtown, some have seen redevelopment 4, some haven't since there. Original
construction. Those are great opportunity is an important resources, integrate sustainability policy fulfillment, but it's also it's also true City vitality and revitalization and confidence in the market come from new construction. People love to see cranes. People love to see the next new building because that says something about what's coming at it. It speaks to the future and it creates excitement in a way that. Sometimes polishing up older building and flling it has tremendous value. But we still need the new projects to and so. I would just I would just sort wrap that followed up by noting that when we think about tools, it's it's our role as a tool.
Some of the some of the financial resources that want to partner with you on also going to work to build on around. Those are tools. But there are a tremendous amount of opportunity is don't cost money. And those are how people partner, how people communicate about facilitating creating efficiencies and remove roadblocks and create priorities for projects. Those don't cost money in the those those take aligned interests and common goals and that proactive intentionality that that the turnaround is really, really dependent upon. Surrey in the last piece is beyond that. Is public assets. There. There's real estate in
the city. That is really today. Background music for a lot of people, but could actually be atool that the city could bring to bear counties are similar. State also the public is one of the biggest landowners in cities. And so there can be some creative opportunities to incorporate some of these assets that are under utilized into creative development and catalyze board Just thinking about the Madison portfolio or just thinking about Central Station or River's edge. It's a lot more to work with. But today there are assets that folks just don't really pay attention to or think And I think that will you'll find that the part of the conversation and areas that we MAY come to you to talk to about your support for some creative ideas. We MAY want to. Testing te market. Thank
you. Great. Want to thank you. Council PRESIDENT. will of and he and I just appreciate how you opened up the conversation centering around. I use the experiment still connect this to downtown and actually was like a moment nostalgia for me thinking about, you know, being one reason say pond growing up. But what I used to come to downtown you know, now is very different, right? I didn't imagine coming downtown as a city council member. As spring up, but thinking about Macy's man coming down here to shop to eat, go to the restaurant like and that a lot of those business don't exist anymore. But we do new opportunities, particularly with event center, how we've been growing our sports bar
down town 7th Street. So I do site opening up at that I want to ask particularly I'm going just kind of combine all this just so and I know can have more opportunities to to hear from you. But I am on the lines of So PRESIDENT Maker mention about like more tactical. I'm just really curious about just what are the benchmarks that development corporation is projecting, particularly of like? How do you know like downtown is growing? I know touched on that a little bit about the the revenue. Quantifying how many businesses are be seeking to attract to Saint Paul to where we know we're in a healthy place. How many units do we need to build? How many people are seeking to attract and
then also what cities are remodeling after what cities are learning lessons and that too. And then lastly, you mentioned about key partnerships, particularly the capital partnerships. I know, you know, a lot of this is going literally all of this is going to take capitals. So what is goals and building those partnerships with our financial institutions are private sector. Funders. And lastly, you mentioned downtown investment fund. Is there a ballpark of how much we are seeking to raise? To actually meet our backs? Count PRESIDENT. And cast member going to step in with the first part of
that question about benchmarks and where are the kind of what our quite a fireable goal. So. Super honored in this last year bcome a member, a board member for the International Down Town Association. And they've done some phenomenal work measuring. Just bsically how you measure vitality, right? And so they have to get the credit downtown vitality index. We participated in. That's benchmarked against. I think 80 different downtowns across the U.S. And Canada. What that study showed was that the most vibrant downtowns in America. 10 to 15% of their city wide population living in downtown. And they have 60 to 75% of the citywide jobs located in downtown. So we set our goals
for downtown Saint Paul off of those off of that study. And we we so we want to we want to get 10% of the city wide population to live in downtown. Currently, we have just over 10,000 residents. We want to triple that to be over 30,000 residents downtown Saint Paul. And then as a follow-up to that, based on a number of different downtown revitalization studies that have been done by it, a Brookings Institute and others. We see that starting with both entertainment and and visitor attractions as well as residential is kind of key first steps order to to get the next piece, which is the jobs located in downtown. When we did the study, we have 55,000 jobs downtown Saint Paul. We have about 150,000 jobs across the city. That number has fallen for downtown over the past few years. But
we want to grow to be half of the citywide job. So 75,000 jobs downtown Saint Paul? Those are that's what we see is kind of the key benchmarks for a vibrant downtown. And then the 3rd goal. So 20,000 jobs, 20,000 tax are 20,000 plus jobs, 20,000 residents and then one of our existing strengths is our ability to attract visitors. And so we want to grow that by 20%. So. A nice round numbers. 20,000 people, 20,000 residents, 20,000 jobs and 20% more visitors. I will just add to that. a goal of getting that tax revenue. Out of downtown, which is somewhere one side or the other 10%. Back up into the that can give to 20's, maybe did 30% and ended at 2. It's obviously through healthy buildings, new buildings,
Grace. You Councilmember Bowie that asked a couple other questions in there I'm gonna. The idea is study reference to the number of cities that Joe was talking about. Probably the probably the best example nationally for our organization kind of the gold standard doing this is an organization call 3 cdc. It's not a cdc. Its downtown development Corporation. The 3 c's or Cincinnati Center City. And that's an organization that was started about 20 years ago. Initial seed fundraising of 50 million dollars by public and private contributors to really revitalize downtown there
through a series of projects and funding initiatives. So that affected private real estate that affected public facilities and that even had involvement in public spaces as well. Since since that star, they've raised a total of 250 million dollars over 20 years and that's enabled them to catalyze over 2 billion dollars new development and public improvements you have a fair question. How much money do you want to raise? We like to raise as much as possible. They're an organization that's a gold standard. These these projects are expensive and complicated. Target numbers like they're targeting. I think it's not unrealistic. I think in that and in the near
term which time will define as opposed to 2 months into the job. I think we'd certainly like to serve with raising 100 million dollars and as alarming as it is, projects will go through that pretty quickly. And so I don't think I don't think it ends there if we want to get to a really healthy place recreate the downtown can and should be for all Saint residents. And progress. Thank you. Council pesident maker and just just want to marks and things were, I think most of us are probably on the same page. Just want to mark noting that I'm thankful they came up to the fact that we want to be driving. Property tax values downtown up. I. These council members of do with this much more than me. But just the
amount of conversations I've had about property tax burden even in the several weeks for this has been like visibly part of. My life and so immense and my peers have had much more and much more longstanding interest conversations about that. Just want to know how big of a priority but needs to be thankful. Also love that you mentioned that people love cranes. I remember unlike for over a year multiple years when registers been experiencing the crazy boom. I feel like there's an entire be just about how many cranes are I think I can't believe the amount of focus on number of one very ral. I really appreciate that. And the downtown improvement district appear cities candidate is included because as much as I love the comparison to Cincinnati, which is essentially compared to Minnesota Southern City, I
actually really appreciate the fact that northern climates are being compared because a lot of the placemaking and pedestrian focus and even the vibrancy having cold comparisons of cities like Calgary, let alone the huge. You know, Toronto, Vancouver, all they're really, really known for being truly global diverse. Vibrant cities. But I think even place like it one calendar year, frankly, under discussed. And so. I'm glad cold climate cities are part of the comparison just because there's some things where. Places that plus nowhere, frankly cheating and their placemaking. So we we have to do with the actual challenges and then really want to mark how much I appreciate the Strand strategic call to make it a nonprofit. I we have a role to play in the public. W
have very uncertain like federal financial situation. But part of the market has a role to play. But by creating a nonprofit status year, putting some on a sinus and yourselves to go out to our film director film Traffic Partners and say, Hey, we need you with us on this night. You know, we're one of the night cities you care about downtown vitality, economic vitality, McKnight, you care about supporting, you know, bipoc businesses, local businesses and economic vitality. We need you with us on this and we, you know, even with Saint Paul compared to the rest of the metro being in night city in certain elements that we have unique to others. I just us being able to funnel those resources and really put that call out and make that ask what have a place where can organically land is a big deal because it's on all of us to make that ask as community
leaders, the mayor's office, you all. But there has to be a place for those funds to go in for the asked to be from a through. And so you all being a safe, trusted strategic partner for those funds to go to. I just want to make sure. And in that. The I appreciate just kind all lot of the discussion here. I think one of the things that I found myself thinking about who is just importance how we are planning for that long term strategy that have mentioned and discussed. And I think that that play such a huge role, especially in 2the city of Saint Paul's project. Projections like we're building essentially would be pulling building for both like the city of Saint Paul now, but also lke the future generation. We're tinking
about 50 75 years from now. Hope wuld be that Saint Paul and our city looks substantially different when it comes to how we even interact with our commercial and residential spaces and opportunity. And so I am really excited about that. I I hope that we also as part of the strategy and even just like in the housing study and just then the vision for the work that you all are doing, that there is extensive community. Thank you it. Beyond here, beyond just the downtown space, because I think one of te pieces that I always just really interested in hearing a continuing to see is like what brings Paula Yates downtown. You know, I think from council and just sharing just some of the reasons why she came downtown. I mostly, you know, came downtown because of work. And that was pretty much, you
know, that was it. I kind of a my neighborhood on the east side and kind of where I would go. The restaurants going to play side frequent in my community, in my neighborhood. And so it's like, how do we get, you know, some of our our small town tendencies t come downtown to maybe that's not if we don't work here and you know, for me, I was like for most my day downtown, because that's where my office was. But like, how do we get to the place where also just having like everyday thing, PRESIDENT's interact with downtown in the next 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, not MAY also mean that we're building and should be including the voices maybe of people who are here right now. And so I look forward to just seeing what that looks like as it
continues to build with you. But I think one of the things that I always kind of envision and always thought about was like, you know, when I first here someone who was just like I was like, I wonder why, you simple decided to build their downtown like they did in spaces of just like what you do in comparison to like Minneapolis. And just like how often people to go to Minneapolis for a lot of things or not. Vice versa, not want to come for across the but like a lot of places. Where friends? A lot of places are we've got to eat after dark things that what happened, you know, just like if you want a rooftop, you talent. There are reasons why I was leaving the city to go to Minneapolis. And I do hope that that's a part of like the thought process, too, because as we're comparing and as we're thinking of comparisons. So often, I think about people
come into Minnesota. America in Minneapolis, but don't make it over here. I do wonder up just like. When we're thinking about back 10, 2050, 75 your strategy? Who were building for matters? And I think that that's really important, at least for me is like. How how do we attract folks that are here? But also just like in general, are there certain element, especially surrounding like entertainment that we MAY have missed when we created Saint Paul first like no years ago or so to 5 years ago that are quite relevant now where I do hope to see some of Some of the entertainment events, investments expanded. I do hope to see some no commercial real estate we've aalyzed now. So I think that's really important that we also continue to have residential properties that are here in
downtown. And I've seen some other comparisons and other places in other cities to that. It's really cool how thinking about it. And so I just I really love the to do it. Ithink one piece that I would say it's just I think it will be really important, especially surrounding the fundraising strategy and the partnership strategy for us to just get really specific at naming thing, you know, where we're going and what we need to do and what we need to accomplish. I think, especially from the piece of just come back from being in the kind of public and philanthropic sectors. People like to tend to fund specific ideology and specific direction. That specific partnership. Sometimes it's hard folks just to get out of that. You know, piece of just like want to revitalize downtown. That's likely. What
does that mean and what does that look like? And so I-40 just hearing. That I thought the that's part of this whole entire presentation was the answer to councilmember police questions around benchmarks because that help me understand the vision and the direction that you're going. And I think that was when I was wondering the entire time. And so it's just really great to like here. Hear that. And here the pair the back on any of the background story. I think we are meeting a need for him even now. And I think we should be building also for youth and for our future generations. And so I hope that their partner table as well and I would severely like intention would be intentional about including young people in Eurovision strategy because essentially you're building downtown for them. A lot of folks that are at the table, you know, we made always get the opportunity that we have now, which was too, which is to like quite literally set
the tone for decades to come. And I hope that we do that would say presidents that are here now and we are and to about, including their voices, especially those that were not included in past when we've constructed downtown. And there's huge generational and racial barriers to that. And so I hope we're really into that to be intentional about what that looks like because the future of our city looks like Thanks so much Johnson and thanks to all my colleagues for the really thoughtful, robust discussion today. I have nothing t add to what's already been said. They this is this has been lightning for me. I want to thank both of representatives for their time and we look forward to continuing the conversation this is just the beginning. So thanks so much. We urgent.