So will get this started it folks, I'm going to gavel us all right. Good morning. I'm calling to order the organizational committee of the Saint Paul City Council. We have 2 really great presentations today. And our first we're starting out really, really strong. Our first presenter really needs no introduction. But I'm gonna do my best to get one. Julie is so many things are famous being counter one of our most popular statewide elected because she helps people understand the state's budget. Helps understand municipal budgets. I was watching the parade with you and the chant was keep your receipts. So it's just, you know, spreading financial education everywhere
she goes, she is our 19 state auditor. Te state auditor overseas, approximately 60 billion dollars in local spending, helping to analyze how that money is being spent and with what kinds of results she advocates educates, local leaders with training data and analysis that they need to make the best most informed decisions and communities across the state. She represents Minnesota's on boards that deal with issues like investments, economic development, housing and pensions and least and not least very famously us. It's an incredible part of the state fair, every single year. So with that, I will hand it over to you. Our State Auditor, Julie Blaha. Thank you. Chair Ken members of simple City
Council. Again, my name is Julie Blaha under sate auditor. With me is is our deputy. Deputy runs the audit division let jetted to do some self. Judge w State auditor at the office the other for 2 years now in prayer that I worked for 17 years and local government. That's crazy. And just yeah, we're for Any county is their auditor, treasurer. Awesome. And just really quick for our it folks. It sounds like there's still music playing inside and get anything from the That's our coolest you know, what I think that might drive people. Okay. And I because this is a sound that if you hve young people in school or you're an educator, you know, the sound which is how I'd like to present today. So we'd like to
do is go over some basic things about on our office and audits in general. Then I'll turn over to Chad and talk a little bit about your audit that we do it from their office. You're at your most recent audit and then we want to be available for questions because we know this is one of those things where you gets thrown around a lot. But that people don't always understand it as much as as they think they do. So we want to start with and I want to see if if you're watching at home, you can also join. And if you're watching live for those of you who got to play to Cook complete is online quiz platform where you get points for both accuracy ad speed. Now this is where the home team and make the people watching remotely have a bit of a disadvantage. I don't know at what level of a delay
this thing has and there is a time or say there's about 20 seconds question soul. If you're at home, you might want to just get into it be very, very quick and consume. You only have 10 sconds to do all. So I can I come to this work. I did. I was a labor PRESIDENT Minnesota Education. Minnesota's, I know the Hennepin local chapter and I also was a treasure of the afl cio. I'm but also a middle school math teacher. Which is why you don't get to choose your own name. This has an option where you 3 choices. And that saves me had to say the a lot of calls home if I could do that. So I'll give you a couple minutes again to to get signed in as I go forward, the first parts of this are slides. So you don't have to feel like you've got to be ready on the keyboard
yet. I'm here. Also I should mention that, you know, to its anonymous, I won't know who you are. You have to tell me if you win or give you a physical prize. Know because don't give away things like that. It because a public purpose and because I'm an elected So you'll all the honor, honor that that you can have So as I go forward, you could still see the pope will be at the bottom of the screen. So you're still gonna be able sign. And later, for those of you who are watching online. And I watch for that. Ok? So I'm gonna start again to start our heat here again. If you count down, don't worry. It. I will let you know before the first question where you actually get to participate starts. Ok? So just talk a bit about the office of the state
auditor. Oversee as as a chicken said, we'll see about 60 billion dollars and in mostly local government spending. Basically 40 billion of it is local government action in Minnesota. And then we also do this what's called the statewide single audit, which is the federal section of funds that the state that rest of that audit is done by the legislative auditor. And now we just picked up a couple years ago. Basically do need your work in 3 ways. We have examinations that audits, investigations, legal compliance checks. Tose are the kind of things will be going in and we actually test and assess what you do. We also provide support to the extent we can. You know, we have to maintain independence. So we but we our goal is for you to be successful. So we
have if you use one of our our softer, we we have support personnel. You can call if you have a question you can call us. We have news letters. We have trainings a lot of things on our website that you can visit. To find a website simply type in Minnesota State auditor will go right to it. And then we do analysis of that data you send in to us. We then we organize with some context and analysis so that you can make decisions based on fact. And you can find our reports a number of tools where you can compare data to other counties or townships as well as we have added a new set of dashboards to see where you are in your complaint, Jeremy, particularly what's in what's And so that anyone you
all can check. So can the public. All right. Ultimately the reason we do this, it's because I believe that when we have strong local government, we are protecting your right to make decisions in your own community. This is about freedom. People and of course, that's why we have, of course, flags and Eagles because I would suggest right now in end, a democracy like ours. You know, if if if Washington, D.C. Gets a little off the rails, if say if a, if the capital state Capitol, they get paralyzed, you all are the ones that keep things going. You don't have the luxury of an endless fight at the local level or none of us get out of our driveway for 3 months. The endless doesn't come. The water doesn't turn You have to get it done. And this is why
I'm so. I'm so lucky to get to work in this role because I get to stay focused on the work that you do that I believe is arguably the most important in any democracy. So with that, let's start talking about the first couple questions will be about office. There is no reason you should know these first off the next that will be about audits in general. And again, I didn't make them easy. So if you don't get in. Well, don't if you don't. No shade because there's no reason why should necessarily have this level of expertise at this point. But let's start about her office. The first question is what you were. We found it now. The picture uses a bit of a hint for those history buffs gives a little bit of a hit there.
So were we found in 18? 49 18? 58. 1973. Or 1998. And again, you see a time rep they got 1 seconds to pop an answer. So people. Right. That's And everybody else got the got very good guess Yes, we were found in 18. 49 and we'll get little bit more in a second here. Here's our I will get every each time we will be getting a scoreboard and we could see everybody score because we don't have as many people in if more people have been those of you in the audience, you can still join. You could still win at this point with 10 more questions to ok, I won't MISS. Became a territory. That's when you need some start watching the money. And so that's when the off the state auditor was first formed. Then, of course, we start counting a 19% coming from when we became a state
1973. There's a lot of change. And that's our office picked up some from the public examiner. Some duties went to the legislative auditor. Some duties actually went to the governor as well. 1995, in the first woman elected state auditor that was ordered to the Dutch are and we have had women in that role since I know this board and little bit about that kind of and not even we eliminated our state Treasury note don't want and here's a deep cut, if you know what your auditor it's different in virtually every state. 19 states have an elected state auditor. Several legislative auditor. Some have comptroller. Some have treasure sun devil threesome every combination of those, Minnesota is pretty unique in having the state auditor
having such a local focus, but that's also because so much of work, our state level initiative run through cities, counties, towns, school districts and special districts. The state has a huge interest in a successful government level. All right. Here's our next question. Which of these is not a division of my office. I wish it were. It's my I wish it Maybe someday it isn't at this point. The rest of these, though, all our names of our divisions. That's where the music is coming his back. Well, that's the next. We'll keep you But you got good I'll tell these are all this is This is really telling. Yes, our office all the divisions except for cybersecurity. We did just
recently hired a chief information officer. And so we're upping our game. When it comes to technology, we've always had our operations division is one that's not named here. Constitutions me, my division. What we call the mighty team of me and 3 more of that are that division. We have legal special investigations. We do have a pension division. We work a lot with my relief associations is a big part of what we do. We also help We also work with tra. So we we have area that helps the technical parts of pensions. I knew that all of you hope if tax increment finance is out of our office, which is a good thing for you to know. We complicated and it's got
money. A lot of time to come to us and we love that. And so you MAY have worked with our director, Jason on tax given finance our job is to help oversee it. And then we also attempt to help make the policy lke clean so that you can follow as well. And so let's see how that shook it up. Focus on that. I think it's the young people used to If I'm thinking, I know people say it. I am not a member of only one of as a state already on several boards. And only one of them is a board. I do not serve them. I used to make the wanted serve on the Taylor Swift appreciation to f and and then I realized that it 50 and Sunday. Staff that. Okay. You think 6? You would guess that? I'm gonna go ahead and we'll talk about which I I am not a legislative audit commission. That is the
office of the Legislative Auditor. The Legislative Audit Commission are the legislators that work with her. And they over they they see that her bosses, my bosses are all of us more directly. And so I'm not on that commissions. I do definitely watch it constantly. So lets see what that did. Change because was hard. What the board these arthe words that I also serve So Executive Council State Board of Adjustment exchange for those are all made up a statewide constitutional officers. Para and on that board, real finance Authority. His store, the shady board, all of the constitutional officers are simple. Technically on it about them and its capacity to attend. So attend kind of on behalf of the good and then housing minister Housing. I get to serve on this. Right now we're going to start going into your audit. These are ideas about your audit. Audits
in general. I'm here and I'll tell I have to get 40 hours of continuing education credits and auditing myself because I signed the audits that I learned a lot of these myself to It MAY have made all of these. There's some point. This one is the one I have the most commonly error made by legislators. Almost never had a legislator. Get this one right. Only one of these is required for something to be an audit things MAY be true of of of of an audit. Only one of the things she asked to be too for you use the word on it. Really never had a legislative. see if oh, my gosh this. This is one of the best I've ever had for people getting this right. This is unusual, unusually high percentage of correct here. Again, the idea
that the financial component makes sense because that's yours, too. Cbs, cbs involving years annual. That's how yours only thing that makes something it audit is a set of standards and these are things you comparing to that face. The people theoretically all agreed on ahead of time. So that's why you can audit vote because based on what the vote should be and the laws will probably be your standards. There. Again. Good. It gets a bit around other things that are in an audit. The scope of your details tell you what we're going what looks at the this might come You know, to look at the screen, this one might actually come in the little handy in a future question. They could be laws, policies crest practices anything. Again, that something tat standard and it's about process or a policy tests. And we just we check it. You say to people have to
sign every check. We lok at your tax if they sometimes very simple. And then the report we have is what want you to call the audit. That's a thing we can with our opinion, which is not we think it's more of a based on what we see this. What we believe is true. That so let's take a look at this one, which of these are sources of standards used in your audit. And by the way, if you think I'm being really tricky I'm not if you want your best test taking skills as a strategy for like a new teacher who doesn't right? The questions too tricky. You can. Hey, you are correct. You are correct. All 3 see in all of is. Just could be the first year teacher reading it. On there all about got the government accounting standards for Gatsby is
sending a lot of sets the stage that we that buy what we do an audit. Your policy resolutions could be something that's tested in your audit. Federal local state laws can show up in your audit and you and yours and then government auditing standards for lead business. You might know generally accepted. Accounting practices are fast, standards are version. Is government auditing standards, which is the yellow and they're so if you got well done. And actually auditors or accounts account number, ok, your audit? Now? There are times you might want to try to attempt, but what does really do? He's got to be done? These are due dates for something standards for different things. Yes, it is your is actually do SEPTEMBER. 30th now you MAY want to get
it done by JUNE 30th because you can get full summit. That the government Finance Officers Association certificate of achievement for Excellence in Financial reporting, which I think the city is historically teen. That deadline is usually JUNE 30th that Hugh Grant extensions. But bye bye federal guidelines that the deadline is SEPTEMBER 30th, which is 9 months after the fiscal year ends. So we will get partial credit for JUNE 30 is what you're saying. Partial credit. Don't think I of the that that I that. All right. Let's take a look at excellent. No movement yet this one might get people moving. Which of these is not an example of
an internal control. And in fact, one of these things cannot be considered an internal control. Again, internal control is something that you do to make sure things go Go right. It's a process politics of like that. That gets help too make sure that you're doing things correctly. Accurately and timely way integrity. Thank you for via on it. That wasn't ready. Solutions things like bank reconciliations. We check that. In fact, we have had I think statewide surprising amount of times that we've had to pull people out on failure to complete bank reconciliations in in a timely fashion. And that is something you really want to And having policy can actually can be an internal controls in time. That's all we have to check is what your policy, your approval review process,
you know, putting your mileage or or our expenses, those can be an internal control. Having an audit is not an internal control. So the idea of saying that we can't do anything until we get audit. That is not if you don't know what your numbers are. And you think you have to wait for your audit before you know how much money you have. You have a much bigger problem. That is not your internal control. It's a way to check to see if the other ones are working. Okay. Again, some really good performance on this. By the way, we only have a couple questions This would be east. What a 3rd less, which of these is the most serious type of audit finding findings. And we find it issue we're gonna bring your attention. Which of these is the most serious. His words. We are hard think it's a smart and they're not logical that necessarily. Yes, if you get I'm getting a lot
of people. It was a material, weakness, material means it needs are not going to catch it like a $5 error somewhere with Michael tension. But that's not going to be a big thing to be material. It really matters. Michelle Wie isis is with the ones with the highest risk. That's question like to say, hey, stop Texas. First, your a mature significant deficiency is still an issue. There's some risk here that would be a next level down in a verbal will give you verbal things that we've seen that are a challenge. And we'll tell you what those are verbally. Don't need to go in the report, but we do check additional tracked in a sense. We still will know if it keeps coming up. And then it MAY make the report for that reason, too. All right. This is I believe the second to the last question often does in bronze tell you what. All the other. I just
love pandas there are you all have a chance it could still happen. Giving. Or if you're trying for last place that I have someone also trying to do at this point. Also fun thing to try. Even either way you try to play makes you Which o these is the best type of audit opinion, which is the thing you're going for. What you want to see on your audit. that paragraph to figure funded project. Yeah, you get What you the fight is not something people each year for doesn't feel like the kind of thing you want to say is as opposed clean audit clean audit is how you talk about it. But so a lot of people say it's an unmodified as you get an qualified modified is a term we use. You would say that's a clean audit. You MAY have explain that to a constituent
typically have modify the qualifying to had some versus significant. At is a really at this very problematic and and disclaimer means we didn't have enough evidence to give an opinion and strict again, he's here to make to this event. All I last when. Last night last question. One Which of these can an audit do? Only one of these things can it actually do. This one. This is one that I think is a board members want biggest challenges. You have understanding. What can you say you're on? It does. Yes. Your audit can point out risks can find on the front. Don't go. Don't go that date. We charge a lot more if we get. You can't double check every transaction. That is simply not an option down the road. That could be an option at some point with ai. That's maybe something our future, but certainly not a today
thing. Fix problems. We can't fix your problems. We can tell you about your problems but to maintain independence to truly be able to assess your work. We cannot do you so we can make suggestions. We questions about your ideas, but we can't actually going to fix anything ourselves tere. But we can point out risks will tell you where your risks are. She can make a decision about your next choice. And with that. Let's we can take a minute after this would do turn it over to channel. Take a few minutes and talk about a couple things we noticed in your most recent that. All right. Let's see who. Let's see who did this. And again, you get to disclose your your your position if you'd like. He's been Want to take you there. Congratulations. Hold candle.
Want to say we you have to. Congratulations. Do, it's going get connection is part not Feel free you know I will back you And with that, I'd like go there to deputy auditor streets to talk about your specific right decisions. Thank Good Councilmembers. So yeah, can briefly go over things. A lot of this is stuff that's already talked about in last year's exit We complete the audit. So might be review. But want to tighten with what we just What auditors talked about how it applies to the city what kind where you stack up. Some of those things that we that you just discussed and went over in the code
so this relates to the audit for the fiscal year ended DECEMBER 31st. 2023 because it's a lesson that completed. Audit for the fiscal year ended DECEMBER 31st. 2024 is currently underway and in progress. So it's all private data until we complete our audit process and release a report and that but so that the city of an unmodified opinion on it, sir, and the financial statements. And so doing a lot of really what we're doing is we're going in and making sure on the financial side of it that the financial statements presented by the city are materially correct. That other materially stated and there's no material errors and misstatements. And a lot of that is goes to the assurance within the public bondholders bond rating agencies, other organizations, they can rely on those numbers in the city's financial report. We also evaluate internal
control over financial reporting to make sure that there's a and no significant internal control issues that might cause a material misstatement or srious misstatement of the city's financial statements and it for for the fiscal year in the 20 DECEMBER 31st. 2023, we did not have any material weaknesses, which is the worst. Kind of finding or or significant deficiencies in internal control financial reporting so that that's good news for the city. We also evaluate if there's noncompliance material to the financial statements. We did not find any. In the city. We also do what's called the single audit. You might hear the term tossed around and it's basically audit of the. Cities up federal programs and the way it works as we take all the city's financial programs, the financial
federal program, that story for the federal programs evaluate them according to risk in the amount of dollars involved. And then we select specific programs that will call a single water program, specific audit on those programs. And sure they comply with the federal requirements to the program. So every year the Federal Office of Management Budget releases a complaint spplement with, you know, is giant document that has all the federal programs and then it specific requirements record it s regionals programs. So we will go through the programs. The city's the city has and laid in a fight which we're going to audit and apply those requirements. And again, we did not have that your weaknesses. So again, the most finding it, we did it. We did not have any of those in
relation your internal control over compliance with those reporting requirements. We did have one significant deficiency. Just briefly go over that in a second here. But again, we had unmodified or a clean opinion and the cities compliance with the federal requirements. For those for those will become major programs that we tested and the major program was the for 2023. Was te covid-19 coronavirus state and local fiscal recovery funds. So pretty common one in a lot of oddities to be audited. Now, some of that covid money wraps up will probably be selecting other other cty programs on upcoming years, too, to do that. But there's much to be the covid dollars still still being used and that still subject to the hunt for this year. And so that one that significant deficiency, I guess, really the suspension in with the federal so
specific to the covid-19 coronavirus, state and local fiscal recovery funds. There's a federal requirement that before you enter a transaction with a covered party or or a vendor or a sub grantee something like that. You're supposed verify that they're not suspended or to barred from doing business with the federal government prior to that. We had case where we found it into a transactions on the finish you over Yeah. Can also say during cold that was not an uncommon Right? That was one the most common fighting across the country. was Now it's about recipient so-called recipient monitoring, making sure you're keeping track of anybody else that you share money with. But this also was quite calm. One, sometimes it's not checking.
Sometimes it's lack of documentation. Just not right down the Jets or finding because again, this is the thing I learned big say not documented. It's not done in a sample of a cut cver transactions tested the city that upper from the verification for suspension department for to beneficiaries and during the coverage taken the 8 that we tested. And that's what letter to rising level of a significant deficiency that reported. Your audit report for 2023 and again, that is verifying that very common finding, especially with the covid-19 funding that came from federal government. A lot of new programs a lot of creating systems and controls on the fly to check some of that stuff. So a lot of slip through. That's not uncommon. 2 local governments that we audit. If I can also say one thing is a former mth teacher, it is sometimes tempting to look
at these tests and say I've heard this in media before. Some will say well as 208, right. That means one 4th of them are wrong. Note. You can't say that. That is not how this test works. Think 8 we found it's That's all that's s do not. You can't extrapolate that and say that means these many were wrong overall. Just so it's not it's not The sampling is not develop me to do that. only other thing is coming to an eye will go through. You know, there's some verbal findings and I know Office of Financial Services is probably are those probably working not to Justin was no. But just that the timing, the you know, so SEPTEMBER 30th is by federal when the audits supposed to be completed
again, I know the city goes for government finance Officers Association certificate of Achievement Award. And the deadline for that is technically JUNE 30th. Like I said, there's often extensions granted and I think the city is taking advantage of some of those. And in recent years. But but you also did not we're not able to put the audit in time because we do not have all the materials prior to that SEPTEMBER. 30th federal deadline. So again, and I know number of reasons for that, there's a lot of staff turnover on new systems being implemented. Things like that. But not uncommon for for larger entities or smaller. And it is for that matter. But that is technically the deadline that SEPTEMBER 30th. And that's for us to complete the audit. So we also need to be the financial statements and the supporting documentation prepared, you
know, in advance of tolls to be attending such one of the city council to be aware that if you play, they've heard that before. Where of that. Again, we I think GOD always more effective. The more timely it is to the end of the fiscal year. Relates to so I can something to also with with a a real significant challenge of public finance. Workforce shortages across the country. It's one of the top things that treasures controllers get together, we talk about it also means and that people can think about each other slack in the in the past. You know, if if you if you all are running late we could kind of double down and pick it But we also are having
we also struggle sometimes to keep our hiring up. So as a result, it's it's much tougher now to help somebody out. If you start to get behind, it really can amplify itself. So. mean, if things that MAY not have been a problem with time in the past are much more challenging today. And with that, I think that is what we have planned out. I think we have really about 10 minutes left or so. What have you? What you? All right. So this is our opportunity to to to entertain any questions you MAY have. About your audit general, any any of those kind of things? Yeah, any questions from my colleagues given the content - or even just the fact that we have the state out there present to answer any questions that we MAY have. Chad Johnson. I have to reach
for the mic. Okay. Well, I just want to thank you so much for coming in to present in front of the council. I think it's been really especially from I serve as te chair of the House and in redevelopment authority. And so being able to work with your office in that capacity. As far as like the audits and things too. I know that one of the things that I've been communicating interests really wanting to primarily focus on is getting are just ensuring that our city audit under a tree meet the deadlines and stuff that are in place. Are there any recommendations that you might just for us as far as like things to consider that you're seeing statewide that just kind of helping municipality is get to that place where they are so many on time. They are getting to the place of actually happened
at its completed. Then everything they need to do. You know, one of the things and thinking about you know, you every time you have a finding, you get a response to the something that is a finding. But I think it does vary quite a bit from disability municipality. And this is where I'm hearing my lawyers to grind even from down the street. And it's and I'm not sure if it's looking a lot of it. I think we've heard turnover. Has contributed to it. Try to better. Yeah, I think statewide we've seen that that a lot of, you know, a turnover Bush. People retiring moving on to different positions. We have a in general. I think all industries, the you know, moving to different employers and organizations all over the
last several years. And I think of turnover like that its its tough, the governmental financial statements on complicated, you know, especially in a city like people here Minneapolis and the other large cities larger counties. Lot of programs going on and the Governmental Accounting Standards Board, which sets the generally accepted accounting principles for local governments continuing as new requirements, new standards that come out, that kind of keep complicating a pictures. I think that coupled with coupled with the staff turnover really makes it difficult for some entities to to get their completed. Their financial is prepared on time and then get the information needed to the auditors on time. So. I lives also be very good to your financial staff because if I hear that they
have accounting degree. 24 credits, by the way, in the public who are interested in work in this state auditor's I will have a conversation up. I can try to filter front that is that dire? And that just be very clear. So I think some of that is that I think planning for that in understanding that. lot of us have have had the luxury of having 30 year people for your people right now. 75 1% of all sea pa's in the United States culd retire today. Right now that is how that shortage is ging to be. And that demographic change that against a demographer here down the road and demographic change. Definitely affecting us. So my new thing I yell at the at the upgrades is consider a career the county because it is it is a topic that we all have to
think about. Are developing structures that have the kind of guardrails for new people? Our restructuring for new people and not uing experience. The are all of our institution knowledge. You're going to have to, you know, to things in other ways. This waste house after it down. You've got to kind of the training. I think that's just going to be a long-term change. In in finance. I think that specific this is city of Saint Paul. But just in general, one thing we've seen local them to us. I think the governing bodies have to make those decisions on home. Many resources they're going to allocate to financial reporting and financial the function to write like unlike anything else on there's there's a lot of demands government budgets. But the more resources you pour into the fans reporting
the easier it is to comply with all the deadlines and you get a lot of reports voting time. Andhink you also have to consider and, you know, have the risks, of course, if you could say, ok, you know, make a little thinner and staff and I think that risk it might still play out. We your reputational risk, of course, too. I think all of us our big goal is to keep trust with the community. We know that's how we keep engagement and get the best the best decisions made. And so you do have to consider reputational risk as well. As a matter for at thanks, Vice PRESIDENT Can. Yeah, I would just want echo that point just because, you know, in my experience, hearing a fast and seeing what our team is able to accomplish, the fact that we have such a capable. Group is what allows us to take advantage of like the bond sales bond swaps. The Times are able to save truly millions of dollars in a given transaction just by having
people who are so. You know, tightly in closely working these issues and able to navigate those opportunities as they arise. And that only happens because we have the right people, but also that they're adequately resourced. So they're not just playing catch-up and not able to do any proactive problem solving. So I really appreciate you raising not just because it's it's a struggle, all municipal local government deals with of. All of the dollars are tight. But the more you invest in these teams, the more they can help save us money on the on run that. And then a question about single audits for the federal programs. So the the rules are changing constantly rate. We're lucky to have o board a grants team that's are tracking that. But in your projection, do you see
there being sort of additional technical assistance for municipalities to navigate that. We're having issues with single. With their single audits. You know, you do bring up, I think on complexity, you absolutely are bringing this up. And I'm talking right now to give you time to think of your that. This idea of one of the things we one of the things we have shared and I think it is treacherous across the country have all been sharing is that we really do need gas be really focus because standard it really has to be in need not a want. And also they have committed to also being kind of slowing the role of it. And folks and I'm the greatest needs and also looking at there's anything else they can drop. That is
no. It's that it's out of date. But but you're right that these are more complicated than most things also come think for orders to to find that in a letter speak to. And that is absolute eligible to get Governmental Accounting Standards board in things, but but to speak to the single out of part is also those are federal requirements. So the programs I don't know, new coming into Play that will affect like complexity of the single I think it just some of, you if you look at all of federal programs wide range of I mean, it's hundreds of programs and summer, extremely, extremely complicated and detail oriented and some are pretty So really depends on the mix
of programs and any Requirements that the that the federal government were to put into place on those funds or sometimes, you know that it's the the state acting on behalf of federal government implementing those requirements yes, thank you. I was talking about new standards in general, which are also a thing. Then you add that to other things. But this is also a place where your are federal. And our congressional representatives can help us because if you are seeing programs coming out with onerous reporting requirements or things that don't seem to feed and actually make you better help us action better. That's that's the avenue. In my role, I spend more time talking to state officials about, hy. You know, he said you want an audit. Do you need an audit? I spent a lot of time going. I don't think you want own it. You ability to investigate. You don't need a full audit here Do you need
this to be a full gap audit? Can the person use regulatory basis? Cash bases So sometimes people don't realize small words can make big impacts when they put a little just Woodward gap and you change everything. And so a lot of times that's what we monitors walk down Is this what you really needed? What are you trying to get at? This? Will this actually get the concern? You have especially see lot officials who want to protect against all front right. And people very focus on fraud, rightfully so. But they'll think that that audit stop and we have to find them can help. But what you're looking for is not necessarily any more audit requirements that happened after the fact you generally want more kind of lies, reporting kind of requirements or something else to that
effect. so the Any other thoughts or comments from my colleagues. Seeing none. I think I'll just wrap it. Didn't share Johnson, just incredible gratitude, first and foremost for the work that you do in the support you provide. Municipalities across the state navigating complex financial challenges, but also just how to be better at sort of that compliance parts and offering an incredible about of technical assistance. And then additionally for being a strong partner for us in our audit and providing clear and transparent information for us and our viewers at home too, understand and understand sort of the role of of the state auditor when it comes even the city of Saint Paul. So thank you so much for the incredible information. Will venture to say that's the first time
we've ever had like a computer live at the council chambers would have big focus is has been in. This role is help people understand this. When I think we talk about complexity can be such a barrier help you the help get people access to their government. If it's too complex, if people feel stupid, if people feel like this is not for that, they won't be the gauge. And I believe that you have good values and basic understanding you have the ability to make million dollar decisions for your community. And we want to make sure everybody can be part of that. And that complexity is not a barrier. I also really particularly want to thank you all that the things every the things you in this room affect people every single day. I would argue with the single biggest impact on their daily life comes out of this room.
And I thank you so much for giving all of time and energy dedication to make sure our days go better. More wonderful. Well, thank you so so much. Your energy is always infectious. We look forward to seeing you very Thank you so much for your time today. So we are moving right along with our agenda. We have a second presentation. Look at that. How incredibly punctual in on time here. Darius and you standard has been said, I don't know director we see has a cahoots. So it's to say that's going to checked to follow. Coming up, we've got our vacant building ordinance review. Let's see. Here are my notes. This is one of the policy prairies. The council's just sort of in a long discussion around vacant buildings appeals. And of course, they come through a legislative
hearing. Officer. So I am just going to kick it over to our legislative hearing. Officer Marcia, to kind of kick us off into the presentation get us real in today on a vacant building ordinance considerations. Thank you. Vice PRESIDENT Can council members. Really looking forward to today's conversation and having a chance to talk about the entire vacant building program. You obviously get a little bit so that sprinkled throughout your days in hearings. Want to begin a little bit of harsh reality. And that is something I learned when I started working in this area and that is that the reason you have a vacant building program is that 50 years ago there was a assault in an empty building on University Avenue. The city responded by creating the
vacant building program. And that was in 1974, so 50 years ago. It's kind of for to that we are now revisiting and we still have some of those same issues. This if they can building program that was established. Did 2 things. One is that set expectations about keeping building secure, protecting the public safety. The other is that set minimum standards for the building's rehabilitation. Those things are both tue today. I would like to mention that the last thing is tis was e of the first vacant building programs in the country. It's still considered gold standard. We have an excellent reputation for how we manage these issues. Not that we can't improve, but we should definitely take a moment and acknowledge the great work that city staff today are doing and our predecessors
have done before us. We do have some great veteran staff who work in this area. I would be wrong not to mention Steve Madden or who is the vacant building program manager who is out in the streets and notice the stuff better than any other person I have ever known. I'm going to turn it over. First 2, David Hogan, who is the decade, deputy director of the Department Safety ispections. And he really is the deputy over all the areas that we're going to be talking about today. In the middle of cover, a few slides myself go back to David and Angie, we see the director of Department of Safety Inspections will be rounding out the conversation moving us forward. So
without further ado, thank you. And I will turn over to Deputy Director Hogan. Thank you for Good morning. Everybody comes present. Council members. I'm going to talk about a few slides and is MARCH idicated directory, step and talk about a few size do the same. If I go too fast, is time is consideration. So the first step of the vacant building program is what is it? What? The life cycle so a vacant building is. And unsecured or secured by other normal means or a dangerous structure or condemned or has multiple housing or building code violations is condemned and illegally occupied or is occupied for a period of time longer than one year, which time the enforcement officer has issued an order to correct a new condition.
Any of those combinations would qualify ability for for being in the vacant building program. The benefits of a vacant building program. It protects public safety. I'll go into a pcture we have some anecdotal evidence of of the pictures of of the public safety part regulations to help prevent crime fires. Instructional hazards associated with abandoned buildings. It helps preserve property values. It helps avoid excessive blade in areas it reduces municipal costs, encourages redevelopment. Improves of public health and and support the community will be excuse me. The stakeholders for work building owners and residents, businesses, investors, neighbors in residential and commercial think both residential and commercial. The district councils, neighborhood
organizations, the city team that is involved in in the work. City Council safety inspections. Police fire city attorneys and pd. I'm sure there are others at that are involved as well. But the main departments are listed there. Other realtors in the building contracts. Coming over to We see. I just want to take a moment to explain data for a minute because when we had the Great recession. I it in addition to my regular duties, I was doing the public information. Officer position in Dsi. So I was regularly talking about are vacant buildings. Not because it had to do with my day job, but because it was really large topic because there were a ton of vacant properties. So if you look at and so I had these
that the in my records kind at at the ready we had over 2000 vacant buildings in the city. At one point. And in it 2009, we re occupied over 1300 vacant buildings. So we re occupied 3 times as many vacant buildings as we currently have total now. So it's just the the continuum of how bad this can get when we don't have laws that really helps support getting react. Can see our whole goal is to have occupied buildings. If they do, if there is a need for them to be unoccupied because they're dangerous. We want that to be rectified as quickly as possible so that they can go bck to being contributing parts of. Our community. The Lincoln here is to the public GIs map that shows where all the current
vacant buildings are. But I really just wanted to highlight. So then and now piece of this that we are. Say it kind of like you have unemployment will only get so low. There's always going to be some some folks who are cycling through employment. This is kind of our lowest unemployment rate. This is our lowest level of vacant buildings. Sure, we can try to get it lower. But having for around 404, 50. Is remarkable. Given where we've and we do, even though the number is right around 400 for the last 4 years, these are not the same for 100. It's one of the problems they haven't really. Telling the story of the vacant building program
because this looks very static like these are the vacant buildings that there were 2 years ago. And we'll talk about some data later. They really do turnover. And that's that's the that we get them back to reoccupied if possible. In back over to David. So something examples of buildings that have been in a vacant building program in for a vriance reasons are lot of water damage. There's going to be buildings that have water damage and structural issues. And of course, fire is always a a. Because to cause a vacancy. A tale of 2 buildings is a this is an example of a category one vacant building was opened on JULY of 2024, it was referred by the mortgage lender and we were able to
close out that file on FEBRUARY 25th as the property was reoccupied. Now there's a kitchen here. She just was fire of U.S. Or not, maybe obviously, but this was a fire was very You had just gone through counsel for demolition you know how to show the picture underneath picture. Suffice it to say this. Was a are monitoring program and the fire was actually discovered by the Code Enforcement inspector. Visiting the house and noticing the smoke coming from it. It was a suspected arson, but obviously it's that's not a the investigation was inconclusive. This would commercial. Anybody who knows me knows that. I love statistics. And so I really wanted to come up here talk to about these. The graph you are seeing here on your left, this is vacant buildings by ward. So
what we know right off the bat obvious that one-fourth of the city's registered vacant buildings are in Ward. One. There's pretty much equal number in Wards. 5, 6, 7, s there's a beginning pattern. You can look back at the map that we just referenced. And you MAY notice that historically there's been a little bit more weight in Ward 6 and in a few other areas of the city. And right now it has this pattern. The next slide I think is really important because it tells us vacant building they could buildings in the city by property type. And if you take together single-family homes and the duplex us, you've got 3 fourths of the registered vacant buildings, the balance
mixed use in commercial. That's about one-fourth of what we're dealing with in the city. I don't have any statistics right now on the parcels and how that is reflective of parcels or property types. I would say right now just looking at the slide, that duplexes are way more represented in this group that what you'd expect based their population in our structures. Sounds great. Yeah. We've got a questions Councilmember. Remy, thank you. Chair of the qr preparedness. As you mentioned, 9-1-1, having nearly a quarter. The amount of vacant buildings. Can you speak to like what are some of the factors now? Why is where heavily represented? And this I know when I talk with former council members particularly around like the vacant building program has really like moving forward. Many of them have mentioned -
that back in their day is about 2000. So the fact that we have got under 1000 or and not, you know, not getting into double digits was a relief. But if you could talk about some of the factors is unlike the building's owner, is it like geographic areas? Come summer, but we thank you very much. That is a great transmission to the next 3 slides that I have for you. really appreciated. And the first slide that I wanted to share with you is registered beacon buildings and median household income by track. And the lighter tracks on this map represent the lower median incomes and the darker that rocked the higher the median income. This is definitely the preponderance of vacant buildings fall in areas where the income is
lower. We can look at the next few maps and kind piece together what is going on with that. But that is the where questions. So I'm gonna say right off the bout that it has a lot to do with income. Unfortunately on this map demonstrates the heavy. Concentration also of the the concentration of people of color and it is mirrored in the income slide that you just saw. So it's kind of 2 sides of the same coin. Family. We're looking here at registered vacant buildings and the Dancing Star. We have a question from Chair Johnson. I don't think this will be covered in today's presentation by did want to ask a follow-up simply because I'm also interested in the amount of pre-existing. Vacant buildings that we have that are rgistered to. One of
little sees the potentially have multiple different owners do that. That's something that has been like a common teme, at least in the Ward, 7 properties. It sometimes seems as though and I think it really great to know just like how many of them actually have, like kind of like the see that is or even just that there's some common threads among citywide morgues of maybe potential Ellis East that have multiple vacant properties in the city. Vice PRESIDENT Councilmember Johnson actually, you guys are ahead of me. What these do tell us is the wheres and the characteristics of those neighborhoods. What it doesn't tell us is exactly the ownership question. And the ownership question is also more complicated by the fact that the owner might be one
entity or person when I goes into the vacant building program exchange a couple of times throughout time, we se a private owner. Who ends up selling to flip for who ends up being in possession and then sells to a person who's going to be an honor. Occupy owner occupant or maybe it turns into an investment property. So there's that kind of a pattern. We also see it happen where and owner Navy walks on the property for whatever reason stops paying taxes. It goes into the hands of the county and maybe, you know, as a tax forfeited parcel or property, it ends up in the hra is hands. And so these changes over time. Do go to our program interventions that we have that the city and we can
figure out hopefully with some follow-up research, what impacts those have you will hear in a few slides from now about the Ramsey County parcels that they control the hra Parcells as I think that is what we know right now. Actually is we could figure out current owners, but that doesn't explain. And historic pattern. You have the questions on statistics of the maps? No, I think just you know, feel yes, sure. We had a quick question. And ten just for the sake of getting through content MAY be let's try to hold or questions and tell. The end. But if it is very urgent, I will call on you to this mission. I just was one. Offer. Just like for a follow-up, particularly as we're looking at the maps, it
would be really helpful to know. What? What the mapping, particularly for orders of a houses to have in order to vacate prices of houses have been found fake. It. So I think that's one of the things, particularly when you mentioned just like the demographics for like race to wear. Like are tese houses they can because they can't afford them. You know, are these houses make it because they were just found a kid data set will be helpful. Thank you, councilmember. I would add that one of the reasons we see these patterns that we do is because the value of the house and is lower. Incomes are lower when repairs come up, there's less capacity to do the repairs be they everyday made regular property maintenance repairs replacement of roof. Those things can cascade. And they do affect these neighborhoods much more than other
neighborhoods. Those same factors do in impact where properties are condemned and ordered vacated. They also impact where the Department Safety and inspections would need to. Take an investment property where land there hasn't been letting the city in for a long time and revoke their certificate of occupancy because we haven't been in to inspect it. So these patterns, unfortunately, do. Overlap in these exact areas. That's really important. Concept as we move forward. For a lot of people just as boring as what I just went through would the Colts and the laws that govern. How the city manages its vacant building program right away. You can see in the upper left-hand corner of the
vacant building ordinance. That's chapter 43 and what it pretty much define. It provides the definitions and the registration requirements. But it is other chapters in the code that talk about how we manage these. So in the upper right hand corner the nuisance coach after 45. Those are the items that were concerned about that's for boarding is covered. That's where we talk about a building no longer being safe. That is a nuisance building and it talks about you've got to mow your lawn. All of those things make vacant buildings that are neighbors. If they're taken care of. The property maintenance code chapter, 34 does the same kind of thing is setting those minimum standards. 33, the city has actually its own building codes. So in addition to the state building code, there's this. That's a
little bit expanding upon. And there are sections in here that apply to vacant buildings and particularly to Category 2, 3, buildings, the charter and administrative code. Those among other things allow us to recoup the costs of managing the vacant building program, but also to recoup costs. Separately for any of the nuisance abatement actions and fees that the city has had to charge and people haven't paid those bills. So that is just super important. Family and you know, this from regular experience with me that the council, I will make recommendations to the council on. Orders decisions, the terminations of the Department of Safety and Inspections and the council will decide those matters. Similarly, you hear cases
on special assessments and orders to abate nooses buildings also known a substantial abatement orders because that's a lot of money. That's what the substantial is about. Finally, real quickly, the everybody's got a footprint on the laws that we use. We have policies and practices that every day we used to make the bill they can building program, run. Those are plane not oly and city code, but at the federal level at the state level and also through case law. So we've had. We have here, the Minnesota State building fire maintenance coach. Those are providing the standards for the occupancy. So really important that's outside o our hands. That rule book that that is the rule book that's
going to be followed. The state allows us to charge those taxes to recover these costs. And really importantly, we've had. We've had cases over the years where the council's decisions have appealed. I will tell you that we have revised. Practices and policies as a result of that. But many more times we have been affirmed. I mean. 19 out of 20 times that the city has affirmed the way it is doing its business and we can feel good that we are drive a car. But in the right lane and directly and we have them. Told so with that, happy to answer questions when we're done and I will turn it back over to Deputy director director. We Thank you hearing especially a little bit worse
for cntinuity. So we talked a lot about kind of baseline and the statistics. You can get a little bit more into te nitty gritty of what the laws and ordinances. So there are 3 categories of vacant buildings in the ordinance. These are the fees listed here and there is a typo on the next because these are current. But the category one. Has the around $2700. C aCategory 2 is the same except for year to it goes up. Category 3 is the larger amounts. These fees are not penalties. These are required as a fee to pay for the monitoring of the property through that year. So to break down those categories just a little bit further. Category one is. Just essentially it lacks utilities. You can't
occupy this building straight up. I call this that somebody shut off the lights and locked away. But, you know, for the most part, it's a suitable to return to one some life safety type stuff gets handled, including that you have running water and power. The longer that it's in this state, though it can quickly devolve, especially if it has an owner who's not paying attention for for one reason or another. So then we get to our category t not occupied and there is exit exact code language related to these. These are my make plain language versions. More than one maintenance violation. All of these we are visiting at least once a month and in that they record their findings on
that visit and it will then determine whether or not we need to increase that. Frequency. But they also check in and check out this little bit later. If there's any evidence of people getting into the property, tey'll check at different times a day, including at night if needed. Category 3, not occupy, obviously severe to lactation again, minimum it once a month, the vast majority of our buildings are in the category 2 category one. Those are the most that are in flux to comment on the commodity in unison and kind of the tale of the 2 buildings. That category one was off the vacant building. This in a matter months. So before you get into the regulation, legislative hearing, a sermon mntioned ordinance that happened in 1974, and that that grounded
us or that established this program. And there too many things from 1974. That I would wish to other than hmans. But policy paid. There there into the record. There was a letter from the League of Men Women voters and they had sent a letter in as part of the public testimony related to this ordinance. And what I found so fascinating is that I think you could say this exact same thing today. So I just want to read a snippet of it. If you'll indulge me much of the charm, character and sense of history. That sense Saint Paul, apart from the surrounding communities is found in our housing stock. He's older, established neighborhoods have much to offer maintained in good condition. They're becoming
more attractive to young families frozen out of the high cost of new housing. However, these neighborhoods particularly subject to creeping blight deterioration and much effort is needed to. I'm a continuing basis to maintain the quality of life. Concerned residents with pride in their neighborhood and faith and its future. Our neighborhoods, greatest asset Bacon reported building can have a disproportionate effect on the stability vitality and the sense of security of a neighborhood solutions to the problem created by them are usually beyond individual control clearly to the city's advantage to have any boarded building repaired if need be and occupied again as rapidly as possible. So I just found that fantastic has really I think you can say the same thing today. We have rising
housing costs. And we have great older housing stock and great neighborhoods and people who care about their neighbors, neighborhood and what it is. It's going to take a lot of folks to manage. The maintenance and make sure that neighborhoods are well cared for. So that gives us to our - regulation enforcement. And so if you're if you're following, are the goes into kind of the maintenance and the vacant part in the maintenance, a change to city? Because when it's in the vacant building program, we're taking the majority of the maintenance it. Addressing it through assessments. In a statement. So identification, these come in a variety of ways use other one. It was reported to us by the mortgage lenders, sometimes their neighborhood complaints, natural or human-made disasters are
common. Reason for vacant buildings, including fires again, either natural human-made. Utility shut off notifications. So simple, regional water or Excel Energy or district energy will notify us when there's a utility shut off. check on that. Make sure that that nobody I living there. And if they are and start to getting an address to get the utilities back on, this goes right back to your question. Concern which is about in for these already unoccupied. And that's why the utilities were shut off. And then we turn it into a vacant building. Interior code enforcement inspections resulting in kind of nation. We try really hard to keep people We know how disruptive it is. If you've
ever moved to, you know, like a voluntary move is disruptive to your life. Involuntary move is very disruptive to your life. So we work really hard to keep people where they are and work with folks keep them there. Same goes for the certificate of occupancy. So managing we monitor bite and identify any sort of maintenance or safety hazards. So if we're seeing if there's a broken window, it gets If there's tall grass tickets, any sort of if there's a front porch that looks like starting to lose structural stability. We make sure that it gets stored safely. And then night monitoring happens on a case-by-case basis. And this is really tis is intense work when it's night monitoring. So we don't do asking people to take times
at a time evenings and their home life to do this. We also do it in pairs for safety reasons. So and there's a cost to that, obviously with overtime. There's a typo on the fees here. But the numbers are correct. As far as the number of buildings. So we have about 74 buildings that have been on the vacant for more than 5 years. 97 in the 2 to 5 year, 94 in the one to 2 year and 123 in the less than one year. And really the more than 5 years. Those are the tough cookies, right? They've been on there for a long time. Really need. And those are ones that you probably have seen come across council. Really trying to figure out
what are the best ways to get those off with a vacant building list and back to 2 reoccupied or if need be raised, torn down and so that there's an opportunity for. Somebody else to come in. I really got a cruise here running that time. So fiscal overview of so the big building team and inspectors that monitoring. There's a sale review coordinator and w'll get to the path to recovery. But that's really his full-time job is get those in that path to recovery. And then Steve McNair, whose manager in just a wealth of information on program. The costs there are there's intended to be cost recovery. The numbers I have
here is for that accounting unit. So it doesn't include in the support type like hr and legal and those elements that would be costs. Also that at the council's time hearing officers time. Any of that is not included in the expenses related to the monitoring of vacant buildings. So I just have the last 3 years on here. The abatement expenses are done via a vendor contract. S through procurement, an rfp and redo the debate month. They are recovered through council approved tax assessments. So those are the work is performed charge to the property. They have an opportunity to appeal the assessment. And as I know as a
senior guys is agenda, you see those routinely. Emergency demolitions can come from either. The general fund or you see the next book point there, Cdbg and Cdbg can't be used for anything that's been on the vacant building. This for less than a year. Sorry. Yes, I wrote it differently on here, but it cannot be used for anything that's been on the vacant building was for the less than a year. So if it for some reason has to come down and this is usually like I would say the vast majority a time when mowing. When something hasn't been on the list for your. It's due to a fire because it's in such disrepair that it's not safe to continue standing and so that we would need to use general fund dollars. Otherwise cdbg is utilized for that funding mechanism. I put
on this. There's that they're free vacant buildings. So the hra does on some vacant buildings. They are on your maps. We've noted which ones are hra owned back in kind of those early or mid 2, thousands it around a lot of vacant buildings and tey've been slowly working their way to get those off of there roster and back into the hands of community, which is great. The other is Ramsey County Ramsey County ones are due to tax for features where it they are now responsible for monitoring the health and behavior of those properties and they pay us for the initial year, but not any subsequent years that they're on the vacant building list.
So over the last 10 years that equates to roughly like $280,000. That is not recovered. And that's because they're supposed to be doing the monitoring so they pay us, wants to register it there, tasked with monitoring and making sure that they see isn't happening, cetera. That does have its challenges because we're the ones we're fielding complaints related to any sort of issues related to the buildings we stay in close partnership with them because again, they're responsible for the monitoring of those. So we transfer that information on to the county. Notifications and invoicing. This is just a note every action that we do is recorded. And so we are recording what is happening What they're finding with
their cleaning up. Bt how long they have to take care of it. And and what the remedy is. And all of that information is is tracked same with the One of the things you'll notice in any sort of vacant building that you see if we do the boarding. We meaning the city ordered the boarding. The boards are painted gray and it's amazing with something jusas small as that will do for that would blending in not being super obvious that it's reported building as you drive. And of course, they can mention there are council costs related to. The vacant building program. There's also finance costs because they're processing the assessments, attorney costs others that we just haven't
captured him. Path to recovery. This is the most exciting part. It's also pretty time intensive. But we we want to be able to get buildings back into occupancies. So. Land use determination and construction. So the land use is. Usually easy peasy every once in a while we get one that comes into a problem and that's related t nonconforming uses. So something's been vacant for more than a year, it loses its nonconforming use. Can a hardship. If there's something that's we used to run into duplexes all the time before before we loosened up our into zoning code is something to be nonconforming duplex. And then that's making for more than a year when that has to
single-family dwelling. Get that react up, it would have to deacon reverted to family to one family or go for a variance. So that was a hardship and it can be and we. We do monitor that because it's some of these buildings never meant to be or they weren't built to be something that is the current zoning. So category if this if there's new ownership, they need to register that just need to get a truth. Infill of housing report for the sale. And if they are renting, apply for the fire certificate of occupancy. But essentially as soon as it is safe for occupancy, this sale can go through and it can be reactivated. Can agree to. We get a little bit more complex and I should say a lot more complex. But there is we have seen a huge benefit with this
process and the benefit is recidivism. And that is that we used to see people who would buy a vacant building property. They're like, oh, my gosh, I can buy this house for $10,000. Sign meant and they get into it. And there's like $200,000 worth of work and it would go right back on the vacant building list. So the this sale review process has changed that entirely. So this really requires people to do their due diligence. We go to a full inspection which created a a list of all the things that needs to be repaired. Owner potential owner takes that list to the contractors and says any quotes and all of this to get those numbers together. And either tells us in with their current finances that they can finance this or work with the bank to give a letter saying that they can finance these
repairs. It's really that we need The financial capability to be able to make the repairs as what we're looking for. So the sale cannot go through until we have that sale review permits cannot be issued until we have that sale review. And it's really just making sure that people once they get into this project, they know what they're getting into eyes wide open. Category 3. These are much more difficult. There is. Because order to abate and that that is like. That has preceded by a bunch of stuff. But when we get to are a Category 3, there's an order to abate origin of notices. That's a phrase often see it at the very first thing in your counsel agenda. It's like a notice to the council about this that's building. So, you know, there's a notice to council it also goes certified mail to the interested
parties. It goes out to the district councils are ems and it is posted on the building, of course. And in the Pioneer Press. They're often appealed, as you might imagine, because we're taking very serious actions. So the notice to bait is really the notice that we're going to demolish this property. And that's serious. We're talking about very big deal. And so they're often appealed, which leads to them getting to marshes desk. And she also takes them very seriously. There is no sale without acode compliance or certificate of occupancy. These properties are in such bad shape that it doesn't often get there. We usually end up going the other direction, which is the building comes down. It's but it's not impossible. And you really kind of need somebody who's dedicated to that structure for one reason or
another. But oftentimes they'll be and these can't be sold in tow. There is a code compliance inspection, which means that there's often sort of purchase agreement that says that ownership will be transferred once it complete. Does require a 6 that are sorry, $5,000, six-month performance deposit. Sometimes proceed with a full inspection and also hpc review. If that's needed. If it's historic preservation district. These are where we get super complex and it's a good thing. They're just slivered of our pie because they very time intensive. Program successes to remove occupancy materials from unsafe buildings. This is. It's kind of funny that we don't really mention it until now. But there's a reason they became a vacant building. And that's because they're unsafe
to happen to further to reside in or to perform business a I know single-family dwellings the majority of these. But also had like. We had a metal plating. This is that meant to the vacant building program which ended up being a huge deal. And there were a lot of hazardous chemicals in that property which made it dangerous. Fort. The neighborhood and made a different dangerous for first responders. And it took a lot of effort to clean up just to make it safe to be empty let alone safe for reaction to the So removing unsafe materials and some people. To lower citizen, I mentioned. isis see they can building files. I would see 4 different files and one Adrus. When that happened 0, 4,
and again 6 and again in '08, and now I don't see that. I see it was a vacant building in 2016 hasn't been vacant since. That's what we want to see that we had an issue. It kind of dress and how it's able to the contributing to neighborhood again. Tragic events or nonexistent. I guess this is kind of your definition of a tragic events. I we do have fires. And in these was mentioned in that tale of 2 buildings. But even those are rare because we do the monitoring because we're checking to make sure that people aren't in these buildings. But we haven't had deaths and gas explosions and things lke that in these properties. We haven't had them falling over and other properties. Damaging other parcels. The framework
and the record-keeping competency. I cannot emphasize enough how much of success it is just to have a good record keeping of every action we've taken every time that we've given. Notice and opportunity to make things right at the property. Our record keeping here is what make sure that we can get this property. One way or another reoccupied are on the ground and have opportunity for the next person. Monitoring methods, reduce blight. So all the ones you see I've got less in 5 minutes for it come. There are challenges with the program. I do put this note here that some of these elements are on purpose. I could have made that unlike size, 45 find. And I kind of mentioned it just now is that? the record keeping here is super important. We're talking about people's property that
we don't know. And we're taking pretty serious action against property that the city doesn't So we do need to make sure that we are following not only our lives but the state laws, federal laws and that we're monitoring case law and taking appropriate action that keeps us in line making sure that we don't violate people's property rights. We take that super seriously. Due process takes time. But sometimes, you know, if you like, if I had my magic wand, this is what I would do. You know, it doesn't achieve cost recovery and maybe that will always be. Sometimes there is just a cost of doing business in keeping things safe. The consistency and going backwards for make should serve the top. So some
of it is slow in time and resource intensive. And again, some of this is on purpose. But some hearings delay what we deem is urgent action if due process is necessary, we're always going to do due process. There's a typo here. It says not all hearings lead to meaningful policy change. That means building change. So we're tree in part of that. This is definitely a carrot and stick program and sometimes the it doesn't work as well as we would like and that carrot and stick should be that we get things back. I keep writer to resolution faster and so trying to identify when it's not working and what we can do about that. Hearings do take time, staff and money. I know you all know that because you see them come across your desk. Posturing without action. This is just I think we have this for probably every enforcement thing that we do sometimes
folks new since buildings to make to said give a message rather than actually come up with solutions. Access to information and services, marginalized communities MAY struggles to participate. We covered a lot here. We went super-fast. I only have 2 minutes left and that is sometimes that means that if you if he could be a lot of hand-holding as needed, you might not know how to engage with us in the first place and marginalized a number of ways. If you have mental health issues English isn't your first language you just don't have the time. Energy and resources to come to us and stay engaged to get your building back to fruition. And then consistency. We want to make sure that we're consistent. This is something that any enforcement program, you're always striving for better consistency. Coming with Poly. I was get most of this, but a lot of this. I
really did want to highlight because some of the The struggles that our customers have in getting react. You can see is that they have to do it on paper. Our online does not support our online tools that we do have does not support the ability to apply for permits online because our only option is that it's hard hold. If you're in the vacant building program, you cannot pull permits. This is going to allow u t do more of a soft hold. Once you're approved for sale or be able to apply for online permits, it wll be way better. Permits will be able to be linked together. Will know it's related to the sale review and the reaction can see of this building. So encourage you to look at this
more. I did think to Councilmember mention whether or not it became vacant, but it there's nobody living there. That's not something that's easily tracked now. But I've heard that from others. And maybe that's something that we work into the vacant building program when they're identified that whether or not somebody I was occupied at the time that it became vacant register vacant. Goals for refinement. As legislative hearing officer mentioned, we have world class program so I so this is refinement. We're always up for improvement. But we're not looking to overhaul the program. It has a ton of success. But I know we only want to raise the buildings that are in the worst Nobody likes to see a beautiful
building that just that is now, you know, demolished. Continue to prevent the buildings from cycling back on increase that consistency have clear expectations for future penalty tool with administrative citations. If we get them. Ad that's just we don't know what that would look like that we would want to make sure there's clear expectations both for us and our customers. We're always striving to increase equity and services, increased neighborhood Dvelopment Corporation. They're participation has fallen off. We'd like to get them back in the mix and then I would also just add. One other one worked further upstream. How do we get them from being on the list to begin with? Not leave you any time for questions. I'm so sick us w are a little tight. It will take just one question at the That was match that. So was number rescues that
love lot of pressure. Thanks a council vice PRESIDENT Campbell. I just want to name. First of all, how much work and effort and just brain power went into just this presentation. I'm very aware of all the work ms Mormon put in all the work that folks and yes, I put in Jimmy Nelson and beef to and others in the in the Council Ward office is really invested a lot of time. I know the central staff like Jane Timm and others I know invested a lot. And so I just want to name that. I also want to. Just the history and the contexts from you all was really helpful. I'm someone that feels like I'm very aware of the basics of a vacant building program. But actually a lot of new context and history to me was shared tday and that helps put into context what the city has done to be a model for others. And I tink that's always worth
noting. We regularly have to try trying implement something and decide whether to invent, you know, invented. We'll all over again versus finding best practices in the times that we're able to provide the best practices of service to our neighboring cities and others. Also vacant building program often gets talked about its capital of the capital, be like it has an official meeting. We have plenty of buildings that people refer to as a vacant. And our words are I have in my word and they're not technically capital of the capital be vacant buildings in the sense of this program. And - so I think the adjacent tools, even you mentioning administrative citations, which I will continue reminding folks is on the ballot this NOVEMBER. And it
is just something that folks do the research care about as as a tool and there are so many adjacent programs and tools that are needed for the things that don't fall cleanly into this program. 2 quick things that I think everyone probably Noesen are easily solvable. I just based on the hearings, we've our ship my short time as a member, the number of people who somehow claim to not get the mail notice. I don't know how hard it would be with Polly to do e-mail notices maybe everyone already thinks that. I'm just saying it out loud and then the sale review process you mentioned is also interesting because again, even in my short time there's been multiple, multiple people who claim to not realize they're buying a building in the vacant building program, which
is me as someone who's property sounds almost entirely unbelievable. But I appreciate maybe there's off-market sales. Many people are trying to move quick. They find a good deal. So I don't know wat control we have over. You know, making more of these bees do this every process so that ms Mormon and we don't have these weird situations or someone is claiming to have not known, even though to me it's fairly unbelievable that someone wouldn't know. But I that's another thing to name. And then. Only t substantial pieces that I would personally professionally. Recommend we adjust or prioritize. When you talk about refinement, seen the number of properties that are in for over 5 years gave a lot of stress. And I think in particular, I appreciate director. We see what you said about only wanting to take
down buildings that are in the absolute worst shape. I would possibly recommend also putting into that category those buildings that are in for such a long length of time. Speaking to the zoning changes you mentioned, I think there are times we should consider properties like these to be opportunities for new 6 family homes for for family homes. And I know it's very extreme about taking on buildings, particularly ones we don't we don't on. But I'll just float that. I think it's it's worth considering. When we talk about cost recovery, you know, there's only so many factors that go into that cost recovery. How much the fee is the fact that the aatement actually has a really long tail before it gets back to us and then also just the fact of those long, long, long standing buildings particular
the cat to and cat 3. Just note, I know the be mixed opinions about that. But I'll just note that the possibility for rducing the ongoing monitoring time. But otherwise, just a lot of appreciation. I know we all could have had 100 questions asked just because it's so important. But thank Thank Also do Krejci the staff. I mean it you really nailed it. The goal today was just a ground council members and their basic understanding of what the program is. But the categories are. But just to then start engaging really meaningfully around some of the policy changes that we see. I think the challenge is side that you offer. It was like really robust. And I know that they're ones that we see on our council side, as you know, funnel up that. We'd like to add to join the conversation and to see
where there's a lineman, Dan, where there's this alignment. But also, I think again, recognizing that there there is due process and practices for a reason to ensure that and and I think will my due diligence will just be ensuring that councilmember. Challenges and considerations will be sent back over maybe in a more like. Analyst for consideration for us review together. And so with that, we're 9 minutes over and will adjourn. Organization committee of the Council today and a deep gratitude. All the staff particular Central Committee Martian or me who I know just takes all all these complaints had on council side. So thank you so much for the time. And we are adjourned.