##VIDEO ID:https://stpaul.granicus.com/player/clip/5156?view_id=37&redirect=true## Redevelopment authority to Cup last week. Here Jalali is excused. Johnson here, Jones cam maker here. Yang here. 6 present. One is excuse that is Commissioner Jalali. Item number one resolution 25 dash one. 45. Resolution authorizing a retail management amendment to the parking Operation and Management Agreement parking agreement with Victory Parking incorporated at last and municipal ramp at 10 west 16th Saint Paul District, 17 or 2 direction. Thank you. Chair maker commissioners. This is a fairly simple item h owns that lesson ramp and the retail space, which is all along while the show for mom in an Amsterdam are. They have both been operated by thick tree parking since 2000. All this time. The retail management fee has been $17,400 a year and it's not increased. This action would increase it slightly to $20,000 year which we feel is fair in drafting the amendment to the park, an agreement to to the operating agreement to reflect this increase. The city attorney's office discovered that they're worse. The previous agreements didn't actually accurately reflect at retail management piece. So we're going to make that correction as well as part of the section. So it would just be approving the increase in the annual retail management fee and correcting the amendment to reflect that management of the retail space and staff recommends approval of the item. And structure any questions or patients on Seeing that it will move approval. Any discussion all in favor say Aye. All opposed motion carries. 6 in favor oppose the resolution is adopted. Item. Number 2 staff report sr. 25 dash Charlie on properties just before it turns over to the director producer staff just as a reminder to my colleagues that this the topic we started discussing last year when the service to do was with the department. This idea of disposing of our injury property. So as to make better use of it in many cases get property back on the tax rolls. This I something that the department has been working for some time to identify the properties that we have that with the most fit for position. And in what way I think today is stay is named or one will likely be looking forward to a 201. And that takes us into that next step of prioritization of the properties. But for now, this is a great overview of what we have. So with that afternoon. Thank you. To an acre commissioners and deputy Director Melanie McManus here today in and as mentioned, this will be kind of the first in a series of information will provide on a cherry land touching today, some some basic developable properties and in the various words. But again, will continue to dig into sharing information around. All of the properties and and what we think we might we might be doing with them in the future. So for today, we'll turn it over to Melanie. Welcome us with Thank you all very much. For the opportunity to be here this afternoon. excited for summer information about on properties. I didn't want to start, though. First of all. With a thank you to the pd ms pd team, as you mentioned, chair knickers. Than working on this before I arrived over in pd and one specifically, you know, folks, real estate, housing and economic development. We've got 10 and Joan people here who have spent lot of time and effort on this. I just wanted to make sure to thank them and appreciate all of the work that has gone into this from the pd team to provide the information that I'm lucky enough to come up and help share with you all so learning my new role in pd and observing the information. So as director Noonan said, opportunity to, you know, speak with you al further after this in the follow-up needed. I'm happy to do that as well. So that, you know, it's first light here is kind of some fun pictures. You have 800 ride. These are all a jury on properties that were redeveloped examples of that. You have 800 Robert Street. a single-family home that was developed through inspiring Communities, Victoria Park, which is redeveloped and has a new park and recreation amenities and the hollows redeveloped into a 62 unit multi-family building all at 60% of area median income. So the hra owns over 200 parcels and that is identified as tax parcels. And so that sounds like a lot at first blush. When you look at the map, you're like, don't know that there's a, you know, over 200 there. But again, just noting that those are parcels. So, for example, you could have several parcels that make up a lot. A few lots that actually make up the development site. And so just, you know, these parcels vary in size. They can range from anywhere from point 0, 2, acres to a few different. A few acres and they also vary by property type. And so there's a few different types of examples parcels just to talk about their trance fulper transfer parcels, for example. So those are persons that could potentially be transferred from the h to the city if they're currently being used for examples right of way or for parks uses their splinter parcels. So those are really small parcel. Some might be difficult to develop due to either site constraints, topography, and they could you know, one example sold to a neighboring property owner, parcels that are under development, you know, parcels that have tentative developer status or negotiating sale documents for the such those parcels, which and I are very interested in that are potential development opportunities that they currently owns. There's also some parcels with long-term use is an example of that would be our parking ramps talk a little bit more about on the end. So there's a lot of different reasons why the hra MAY still own particular parcels. You know, one reason might be the method of acquisition so certain funding sources have requirements that they train. Complete before it can dispose of property. So, for example, if it was acquired using hud funds, it might need environmental review. And that was acquired through tax forfeiture through the state and very county. The county board likely have to approve a specific outcome. And if there are any changes with the developer, funding sources might need to go back to the county forward for those approvals. Another reason could be of subsidy is needed if the site is identified for affordable housing, you know, the financing of putting that together takes quite a while. If city sources are expected, there is a finite amount of those as well. And again, every person unique and you'll see when I start to go through some of the examples of ward by Ward, everyone their own really interesting part about it and their own complexities as well, which is right. Every neighborhoods unique and every property in every neighborhood is unique, as well. So go through a few examples. And each ward of different a jury on properties. I will say commissioner, just I am not skipping war. 3. That there is no property actually, and we're 3 so go through the words. It's not a slight for intended as Starting with Ward one, there are 34 parcels and war. One and for a few different examples, you can look at this 6, 7, 67 7.71 Selby Avenue. This is a site that has the potential for a likely future rfp. We have received inquiries about this site. And so we'll talk later when you talk with different ways of disposing of a cherry property. That is oe method by which to dispose specific person makes a proposal or has increased about site. The site has the potential for future mixed use development. Another example in forward one is a and foresight on university in Sherburne. This one also has potential for future mixed use development. There's one person on the middle of this. That is not a jury owned and that parcel does have a structure on it. But this again, is an example of one site, but it is several age or a owned parcels with that. And more to their 88 parcels. One example is Four-thirty Robert Street South. This is the potential for, you know, maybe a future commercial development or great mixed use site an additional consideration as we've talked about every site being unique in having different considerations is that meant that will be reconstructing Robert Street from 2026 to 2029. So something also to be aware of when thinking of potential future uses on that site. Own property in order to State Street in Oakdale Avenue. Again, this is one of several parcels in it. But, you know, sort of one site with the 6 parcels that has potential as a residential development could be a great gateway intersection into the area. Looking at Ward 4 or 5 parcels in Ward 4. One is and I know to Chrissy Street and this is an example actually had talked about previously a property where the jury still owns the land. But there's a long-term interest in this one because the land was secured with federal dollars that required a cherry ownership. So there's a long-term ground lease with Catholic Charities and residents live on the site. That lease was an initial 10 years with 2.10 year renewal periods. So essentially a 30 year lease. Moving on to board 5. There's 9 parcels in Ward 5. And example. One is Trump So the land was originally acquired through tax forfeiture with the condition from the county to hold it for potential future redevelopment. So adjacent to this and part of that overall site, an area are condos and rental homes and the you look at te constraints is what does. Have some slopes. Another example. There's Case Avenue in Mississippi Street with the potential for residential development. Also, you can see somewhat it parts and grating on there. Ward 6 there, 58 parcels in court 6. Got a few more few more examples there for 6, oe is pain and Bush Avenue. So this is a really unique opportunity for potential future development 6.46. To 6.56. Bush are still under environmental review. So the hra can demolish a building after that environmental review is complete. Another example is pain in York and pain and little. This is potential for future batch rfp. And so checked with rfp process later. Doesn't necessarily need to be limited to one parcel for something like this with, you know, nearby parcels that could be one batch rfp, which is unique opportunity there. Also, there is an ally that by for kits lot and neighbors have enjoyed. You can see some of the paved area there have enjoyed using that for community space in the past. Arcade streets. Another example when you see the property alliance there for a batch rfp again, noting this is the sort of thing where, you know, a developer could come individually with a proposal for any one of those parcels are all 3 together. Also have the southeast corner of the 7th Street and Earl Street. Those are contiguous parcels. The Eastern one was purchase and abolish with Nsp. So and its peak conditions would attach to that parcel. And then moving on towards 7.10, parcels and there. And this is an example at 9.16 Wilson Avenue is something that potentially could be a single family lot. So we've seen other examples that could be mixed use. But there's also some lots like this that are single-family potential. So moving into the disposition process options, there's generally 2 main ways that they're a trait and dispose property. One is a request for proposal, sort of a traditional rfp process that, you know, you all experience in the past year unseen work they train with solicit proposals for specific site through the rfp process. Again, ap, an individual parcel or if they're in close proximity, put a few together for that proposal so tey sure they would advertise rfp. Let people know the parcels are for sale. Really encourage as many opportunities for folks to come in and make proposals on it. And then like it's some great responses and move forward to choosing a developer for site. Another unique opportunity and way to dispose of property is through a direct third-party inquiry, which is not uncommon staff, I think can get phone calls or e-mails about properties just when people are going by and they realize that is publicly owned and they called in fire and see what see, what it's like and see what it's all about. So if the jury receives outreach about a specific property, they can request a proposal from the interested party and then they look at that proposal for on protests and the evaluated under a number of conditions. So the look at things like consistency of the land use with already approved plans for the aea with the development cost would be the time to cmplete the project qualifications. The developer. You know, they look at the proposal similar to it. If it were an rfp received except for that director party in free. And if the proposal then meets the criteria, staff can bring it to the hra. If the proposal goes to a jury for consideration, teir public notice des go out at least 45 days before the a jury would consider the item. So a public notice of folks know that, you know, identified we have received an inquiry. There is a proposal. Nature is considering sale of the land. Then a few other examples to go through our an into parking, which is sort of a different matter. So let's check for a second. Just questions. We have a stir. I was just wondering for the understanding of maybe how our processes MAY be initiated if a 3rd party is ready to develop an outsider wants to propose something for development. I know that there's been examples maybe that has prompted an rfp, but I'm just kind of wondering how the city what initiated our processing some of our it really. And just kind of what things would be looking Deferred to director known on this one being It's good question. So the 2 options that you saw our on our website as as our disposition option. So when when potential developer would reach out, if if we let me start with, if we didn't have an rfp out and a developer wanted to propose again, like knowing you mentioned that they can just say, hey, I'd like to propose on this land and they follow the listed process on the website. If if it has all of the, you know, meets all the criteria that we would bring it to offer consideration, even then you might say, you know what, other person feel that, you know, so that's one way then are few might get initiated. We have. And we want to continue to tell you all about pieces of land in your word and you MAY ask us than to put rfp. We continue to put them out regularly and we have some constraints, right, staff constraints. But really a lot of the reason why they have some of them haven't been put out for rfps because there's been a priority from previous bodies to make sure that they were always affordable housing. And there's only so much resources right towards that. So all say that all housing production makes our housing market in general more affordable. So I don't if if this body wants to continue to. Kind of make sure that we don't put out an rfp unless we require it to be very affordable than our challenges. The rsources right. But if there are some that you're like, you know what, this could be market rate and that would actually be a good thing that makes it easier for us to find a developer and to get things moving. So I just I just put that out there, not suggesting one of the other, but I want to just flag that the requirement for certain levels of affordability sometimes make things harder just take longer because of the looking for the financial resources. So it's really this just you all-knowing like one of the pieces of land we've got like right now we are working on 11, 70 arcade with face-to-face ad and, you know, we put out Hefner site. So those larger sites. And we're looking for developers where we're working with him. But again, like it's it's a resource thing, right? So they're they're all looking for resources to try to get their development going. So, you know, we'd like to develop these and get get some going as quickly as possible. But I just want recognize that that there are constraints around usually financial resources that and sort of policy requirements. And that's a follow-up. I think it's just really this is going to be really important conversation as we head into the upcoming. He Thereafter. You know, I appreciate hearing the difference of the different types of persons that we have. And just kind of the understanding we have 200 parcels that sometimes makes up different developments and different types. I know one thing I hear often in community talking to some folks who are like I'd love to, you know, kind of know what, what land we as a jury on what you know, access to resources they have within the city. That there's always questions about. How do we get, you know, on the radar of future heir, the are of staff and leaders. And so I just that's super important. And I think over the next year would be really important to be transparent And as we're heading into, like priority discussions and just kind of identifying areas of developed fall projects that want to move on. I would love to and I only have 10 listing the North 7, but I really love to know kind of which ones specifically those are kind of be able to see like where they fall on. I think for us, we probably for many of us to where it's like love to dive into the properties that we don't then hear more about like if we discovered or had rp or not or if there's certain he wants is about it or I think that we should be taking into account that. I think many people are interested in doing business with us. And so I look forward to seeing what looks like in the future. Thanks, Other questions. I would agree that Biden questioning their and directed. Curious where te this was the first that I heard that it was because of age or a board policy. Your guidance that we haven't been getting at our peas out more quickly because of a preference for affordable housing there. Number of properties in my word that I begging for an rfp to go out for for 9 plus years. And it just always seems like we're too busy to do it. So I'm curious what kind of policy guidance specifically there has been in the past or that you would need because it doesn't seem to me that it does anyone any good to have parcel sitting. They can't your point could be used for housing of any kind. We have a limited amount of affordable housing funding and will always use all of it that we have to subsidize affordable housing. But that doesn't seem like that should be the thing that keeps us from getting properties that could be used to build more housing out into the market to build more housing. To make it. That's that's a great Again, that's that's just been sort of the stated policy when we've brought when brought in the past with this funny projects or possible pieces of land. It's it's it's been communicated to I don't know if it's an official policy that that really the hra has kind of using their land for affordable housing, which which is fine. But it is it. You know, I all those parcels on Payne Avenue, for example, if we put those out for development right now and just said developers common develop these commercial parcels like they they would do it if we're saying you have to have housing on the site and they have to be affordable at certain percent my that'll be hard right? So I guess it's just looking for guidance in and all the persons are different. Some of the downtown parcels are different right? And some of the words have more commercial and some have just residential. So I think as we sit with each of you and we plan to do that. Go through the list with each of you what's in your in your board? We can hear from you like what your priorities are and how comfortable you be with given, you know, types of of proposals. I never want there to be chaired maker that we don't get things because we don't have enough staff if we have land that we need to get out and get developed, then we need to come to you and say we need more staff. You know, if that's the case or we need to pivot away from something else and focus time on that. But I I really think a lot of it's just been around resources. And so we'd love to know as we talk about each of these parcels, like what you'd be comfortable with and the way of proposals and that will inform when and what we include in our fees. Thank you. And just question about pay I think we can we can and continue discussing how to make this make our wishes known and helped guide staff and those conversations. One thing that I would and also curious about is if we get proposal from a 3rd party to redevelop, it looks like staff gets to make the call as to whether or not that. Comes to us for any kind of consideration that if staff decides doesn't meet criteria, then we never know about it. Is it possible too? As mentioned that we get proposals often. So the spicy, the proposals that we've received in the reasons why we decided not to to this point. To I think we might not communicated that very clearly. We get a lot of inquiries. We if we get a proposal, we We will tell you about it. And we we would tell you this is what we heard and this is why we do or don't recommend moving forward or why we, you know, like you can go ahead with an rfp. You could we could go back to them in. As for more information. So if we get an actual proposal, you will know if we just get an inquiry. Then we direct the interested parties to the to the disposition policy and say this is what you need to submit its very clear on the website. This is what you need to submit. Nice include all of these things need cover all these topics. And then we like to thank your councilmember to determine if you if and how we would move So percent, the proposal to tree board, if it meets certain criteria, it's just too little confusing. Yeah, apologies. And I know I saw that. As Yang and then I think a missing thanks to Nic. I just wanted to get clarity clarity on the information needed to submit a proposal that you see that can be found online. Absolutely. Commissioning it's online. It's under a disposition policy. We can send you each to and it is. It is. I think it's very clear. It's one page and it just a list of. This is exactly what you do. There's an rfp process. This is how that plays out. There's alternative process and this is exactly what you would do. And then you work with generally our housing team because it usually housing, but not always, you know. And and we move on us as I just spent. That sounds good thing And there's also an online map. So we'll we should do a follow-up e-mail that just has here's where you find it. You know, so you can share with your constituents. Here's the map. Here's the you know how you propose and that those things that you can share on your social media year. However, you'd like. So we'll we'll get you. Shareable information that you can that you can use. If you you have to That was my. That was my question. But was just wanting to share that That turn occur. And I ask just to be able to get an actual us for for the commissioners of the addresses and things we recognize the graphic is that sometimes a little hard to see where those are. So as we're heading into that continued conversation. I just you know, I look forward to seeing the the lists and kind of going through that myself for But we did think that asked just so you guys know it's coming. Think it'd be really great to see that the addresses and the types that you have within your done that will just help with some of that. And I look forward to kind of being able to. At least here what if any discussion 7 like have been discussed or if there were inquiries just kind of see like where we are at you know what things were considered. Kind of looking into in hearing that and I look forward to likes kind of scene where we are really with that because we have 200 parcels, but it's like is there a lot of interest in Psalm and maybe not in others or is there like nothing? Is that that super silent and we should be concerned or is there like a lot of interest that maybe we just need to continue to revisit as a part of our overall overall strategy. That could help with future like studies that were delayed. And I think so just really looking forward to that continued. Absolutely. And we'll have that list. And again, we're going to meet individually with each of you kind of go confirm And and some, you know, again, me mention we have over 200 parcels, but like a lot of them are little little bitty pieces right of way or little bitty pieces. A few that are are not developable that are functioning as community gardens, which really should continue. And those, you know, few I think there was one in your board last year. That was. 10 feet of, you know, land that had previously something else. And the next door neighbor called Check. I just can I have this like can you sell this to me? You know, like, it's not. It's this wide and it's mowing in. And I've been knowing that for 25 years in. So we came to the board and said this is a sad note. Now you said that was like one that had been on our list or, you know, forever. And and so some of that is like we should've already like w should just establish those and then say the like heavy feel about like. Can we just? Can they this or or get some, you know, fair, small amount of of money for this little piece of land that we're having to maintain regardless. You know, some things like that. It sounds 200 sounds like a lot. There's not 200 developable parcels do the mix. Thank you. Yes, you. It's yeah. I just wanted to share something that thought of as it was was after last question. I think it's really great to know now that there is a process to submit a proposal. I didn't know that because I didn't think that it was always just know you put in the well, our staff, the about the rfp and then that basically only way go about trying to get any tree lot. But I do know that I think in the past few years you had a couple of really competitive rfp process now, part of peace for lots a word. And I'm wondering whether there is a follow-up at all. 4 for developers to submit a proposal but didn't get selected to let them know. Hey, you can actually submit a proposal this way and try to, you know, pursue getting a lot because think about those other applications that didn't get picked mean they were really great. And so again, it was really competitive process. And I would I would love to be able to get back to some of them and say, hey, did you know about this other way of trying to get a lot? So can you talk a bit more about the weather there? Is that follow-up family? I can certainly turn acre of commissioning we we develop relationships with the with people who propose always that we spend a lot of time with them. Lot of people in this room spent a lot of time with propose theirs. And so absolutely we get to know what they're interested in what they'd like to do. And if it doesn't work out on the piece of land that they're interested in. We would better other pieces land or even, you know, like anything we hear about, are we we want thanks to get developed, what developers can experience to build wealth. So we would certainly not just send them often and of and not touch them get we we continue to work with them. Sometimes several times sometimes over and over. You know. That's really great time. And I just wanted to chime in on what you're seeing in church maker the rfp. Isn't that? Almost like maybe and run policy on the affordable I don't recall us ever passing a policy about that. But I would say that I do remember. And I've also said it myself to every Hadar of peas. Some that can do in my like nver. And I get a briefing on on like the top applications are then what really does stand out when developers they do want to deliver an affordable housing. And so that always really appeals to me. And so I but but I do want to share that. I don't I don't think that that should stop us from from putting out our piece for these other lots money to dispose of them. If there's a proposal that comes to that doesn't have affordable housing. But it is something that our community really needs its, you know, very beneficent appealing to community overall. I would be very supportive of that as well. So I just wanted mean that that way, you know, darkened in that that's not the requirement for affordable housing isn't how I would want us to to operate like always having. That is a requirement in turning dwn development. Said thank and thanks for said pressure that I agree with that characterization Spacey question as Vice PRESIDENT Kamala say. just the that's the openness to just to proposing to us without our extend also to a jury on buildings. At to make sure we very many we do issue and we do get inquiries, for example, like the Lexington Library in all say that. That's one that. Because it's it's in the middle of a of a block on the green line that will probably redevelop. We've held onto that because that would give us some leverage to get to get what all want developed there. When somebody starts assembling that land it starts to develop. So we would in that case like if they weren't use that were for 10 years, for example, something that we want to give up control of that land, but could be it could be used for something. That would be great and if someone came to us with with a proposal, we would talk to that. It was again, we said inquiries about it was shown it. I've shown it 2 or 3 different organzations myself. So but we haven't had anyone with like a solid. This is what I want to do it the financing and I'm good with it. Being a, you know, ten-year lease or whatever. But yet be the same for Billings. We still we don't have very many buildings. And because of that sentence him space. One of the Know that. All right. I'm sorry. Continue. Not much left. Just another example, really, of a jury which is our apartment. Our partner so. A trait on programs are publicly owned. There have only manage this is in contrast on tree parking, which is managed by public street parking minutes and owned by the so they raise issue revenue bonds to construct parking ramps in the past. So those revenue bonds are paid back through the revenue that's generated from parking operation. So show here. There's a total of approximately 7200 parking spaces, which is about a 3rd of all of the downtown off-street parking. Math there. And just noting that last year there is an rfp issued to use arpa funds replace equipment at the tree on ramps. What will happen this year? And that's setting because equipment in those ramps is extremely outdated, has been very expensive to repair and replace. Really has allowed for sort of post covid modern working practices. And so it'll be wonderful to get that updated this year. The jury also owns a surface. Lots. They're a 5 street, a tree and surface lots that accounts for, you know, much smaller proportion of the overall parking that the hra owns. There any additional questions spicy or not? Additional questions just for clarification on the Rams and the garages use different ramps that will included in the rfp regarding the parking. Management. Commissioner Johnson. Yes, the they they are don't want. So we've had we have oerating agreements on some of these ramps that been in place for. Long time. And it's just good practice to every every few years. But rfp that's competitive for the for the operations. We MAY end up with some of the same operators. We don't know that. But they they I think I think all of them would be included. But I don't have that in front of me. But all of them would would be included. That's that's our goal is to put out rfp for the operators for all of our troops. Director and I said the statistic before, but can you remind us approximately how much we spend just on holding costs for all the properties that we? Chair Nick or commissioners, you know. Over the years we've we've kind of said it's about a million dollars year. I think I mean, it's expensive. And, you know, some are more expensive than site. We hve to have security and there's, you know, certain things we have to do there. Some of some of them don't have as much a holding costs, but they do because they're not producing tax revenue and they're not producing housing and they're not. You know, so so we do. We don't want to sit on land. We would like to we would like to find all the ways possible to move it. And Melanie mentioned something else just sum up. Some of them do have the claimants related to funding sources and in, you know, very stiff. Think so. Well, I say that nice. If you'd like to move all the properties, some of them are trickier than others to to actually dispose of. So it, you know, go over those kinds of things with you and and we've talked to many of you about some of these parcels already in your and your boards. And we kind of have some ideas. But yeah, we'll we'll keep digging into that and share the constraints and the opportunities that we see. Great. So it sounds like a follow-up is individual 2 aligns with members to go over the developable parcels within their wards and I think it personally I would love to see the ones that you think are lowest, hanging fruit, developable and then the ones that have more strings attached and that are harder and a couple of that. I would love to see us get more of these properties out of the market this year. And I know that sounds like a shared all us. Thank you, council mayor and I wanted to just as a question particularly I know we reviewed kind of in our monthly. Check ins about these parcels. But can share just what all the purposes that we give, particularly 2 parties. I know we obviously have the opportunity for people inquire and grant proposals. But for my expands on there's a lot of these examples in Ward, one where office I control to garden are remain purpose, particularly for this 7.67. So beside, I know that was designated as like a performance. a venue has like a wooden stage there. And I use to operate like a park. Can you describe just like different ways are parcels. Are her fist? We take chair. he fully capable of the she's noon. So Japan just because I've been here longer so a few things some of the dickens and zoning, right? So the use is the ultimate uses might depend on zoning or where they are There's a lot more commercial in words. And then there's, you know, this is this probably it's it's on but it's next to residential. So could be like a mixed use. It and we can. We can work with you to to give you an idea of this is a man of land and this is how many like how much housing it could support or, you know, give you some ideas of that in that particular case. And some of the other cases, it's land that right that we haven't put up for our fever, not doing anything with it. Present time there have been agreements in the past. There was an agreement on that site to to allow it as a performance space. But even that one I think was intended that at some point it would be developed and eventually that that lcensee said, not going to do anything with it. So we to leave terminated that but it just it really just depends on te community garden pieces, usually they're in their pieces that we feel like very developable. Sometimes in the past, they just they become community gardens. And we've left in that way just because that's really what the community wants. And and the and the council members in those words have supported that. That's not to say they always have to remain that way. But, you know, there's there's value in that as well. So just follow-up just that one want. I want to know, kind of like the process. Seems like at least going up and we're going. It just seems like organics type of process. Can you walk through? Is that the type of process of inquiring to use a parcel for garden are like what is that? By way of inquiry? That by way of like a district council, I'm just not sure just how the city determines what could be used its rom. Jennifer Commissioner Bowie, it's usually they just come. The District Council is often the one who come to us and and make a request and we have to have a license agreement. We have to insurance. It depends on the use. District councils will want to do just like some sort of community engagement event or a carnival or something on a piece of her. And so we you know, we have a have a license to commit that's required insurance requirements and so so it's pretty simple in that regard. As far as very temporary. Use us. If they're temporary uses, they just they just can reach up to to our department and and look, we have a license agreement. We work with Co. It's kind of boilerplate. It's pretty fast. We play need a couple weeks notice at least, you know, to get through the process. But but it's not it's not up. Thank you. All right. And questions or comments. Otherwise look forward to one who knows maybe 3 Aleneva. Thank you so much for your very helpful presentation And there's nothing else to come first