##VIDEO ID:https://stpaul.granicus.com/player/clip/5047?view_id=37&redirect=true## In tis meaning of the safe housing and redevelopment authority to order roll call, please here. Johnson here, Joe 6 PRESIDENT, one action that Commissioner Kim. And number one resolution. 24 Dash 15. 48 approving the decertification of the Koch on redevelopment. Tax financing, district and a menu that treat budget there district 9 or a direct Thank you. Chair Nick or commissioners. This is an item you received a presentation on a belief last week. Expect for your action today. Staff does recommend approval of the item and there's a companion item at City Council today that you will notice on agenda as Thanks much. We did have a pretty robust conversation about this and I'm gonna move approval. Any discussion of Seeing none all in favor say Aye. All opposed motion case 6 even a full list resolutions Item number 2 resolution. 24 Dash 15. 49 authorizing approving a 2 million 159 thousand, $382 pulled 2 from and recommending by City Council. Metropolitan Council Livable Communities Act lca local housing initiatives count on and the amount of 1 million, 159,382 dollars and related documents from the Mary Hall project. Looking at 4.38, Dorothy Place, District 17. More to get to come Thank you. To acre commissioners. This is also an item e recently received a presentation on and is back today for your action. Icy Louise Perry here from the development team and is here as well heading the other questions. Staff does recommend approval of Vienna. Thanks so much. And once again, a minute move approval. This is directly related to a conversation we had earlier today at our budget meeting about the need for more housing all on the continuum. But in this case, permanent supportive housing and well, that's easy to overlook at its these actions. Stay by day meeting by meeting that we take that actually contribute to the increase in that supply over time. So says what we're doing here. Any discussion on that motion. Seeing none all in favor say Aye. Aye. All opposed motion case 6 in favor. None opposed. The resolution is adopted. Item number 3 resolution. 24 Dash 15. 56 approving and authorizing various easements, including a temporary right to construct for Ramsey County, Ray Street Reconstruction project and a25 or a street district. 6 Ward, a permanent easement Thanksgiving easement for northern states. Power, db Excel Energy at the Smith Avenue ramp for the Gold Line brt station, electrical Facilities District 17 more too, and a permanent easement for Metropolitan Council at Smith Avenue for utility Lines District 17 more too. This is the winner of the tabling toward nw government. Thank you, chair naked commissioners. We did not bring a separate like in in introductory presentation on this item because they're very standard easements across our properties, forced reconstruction and transit construction projects. They do come to this body for action and staff recommends approval of the nda. Thanks, doctor. Any discussion or questions about this item? Seeing that it commissioned by Johnson for approval all in favor say Aye. Aye, all opposed motion carries 6 in favor. None opposed. The resolution I adopted item number 4 s are 24 dash one. 82 introduction of formal Amendment Amendment t Shepherd Gavin Rental housing tif district number. 44 director. Thank you to acre commissioners manager Jenny Wolf, U.S. Here today to make a presentation on this item, which will come back for action at a future meeting. Welcome as Welcome back. Take Vo just for commissioners. I'm here to talk about a planned formal amendment to one of our tif District Shepard, Evan Rental housing number 2.44, that'll be before you on that. A future meeting in NOVEMBER. So I'm just going to give you a brief history of the tif district iself. It was rental housing tif district that was established AUGUST of 2003. And it does require ongoing compliance with tough district adjacent to it. Number 2.45, tif district number 2.44. Shepard, Evan Rental does have 325 rental housing units into buildings. The project is named River Crossing and it has 10% of restricted at 30%. Am I 15% of the units restricted at 50%. Am I? 55% of the units at 120% am I and 20% of the units were market rate. So this largely a market rate project. So 25% of the units are affordable. What we would low-income affordable and then the 120% am. I typically referred to as moderate income affordability. And that was U.S. That was what was required with fly at that time. For housing to district. So as I said, this was combined with another adjacent project, the senior rental project. Number 2.45, Graham place. Both tif districts had pay as you go notes that were issued to complete the projects pledging 90% of the tax increment at the tree receive each from the respective tif district. Collections began for number 2.44. In 2006 and that if no has recently paid off. So this means developers fully reimburse for all of their cost to build the project. And tif district does not expire, though, until 2031. So staff is proposing that w and to plan to increase the budget so that we expand and use these tax increment for affordable housing similar to what was done in the beginning that we would use it anywhere in the city. It would not be restricted to be used at this tough district lcation or in the project area. We have projected about 6.6 million of total spending that we would have for affordable housing over like the next 7 years and the proposed amendment would increase the budget. And expand the eligible uses for affordable housing. The expansion requirement is the same as if we were setting up a new tip district. So we do have to go through the same public process. We have to notify the county and the school board and then we have to hold a public hearing at City Council and then the tree board also act as well to approve the amendment. So what are the benefits of authorizing this amendment? Hosting districts are not restricted by bullying like a redevelopment of district if you recall from last week when we're talking pulling limitations, redevelopment districts have a timeline deadline, housing districts as long as we continue to spend the dollar on affordable housing projects, we can continue to spend be on the 5 period of time. The projects to have to meet certain affordability restrictions. And that's the project. Actual have meet it. So it has to be if it was a rental housing project, you would have to have 20% the units affordable at 50%. Am I or 40% affordable at 60%. Am I? And this is typically what's called qualified low-income building under the Internal Revenue code. So it's the qualifying tax credit or a bond project, which most of our resources are used for those types of There's a very natural fit for us to make the sources available to fill gaps to produce additional affordable housing. It can also be used for ownership housing for an ownership project. At least 95% of the units in the project have to be initially purchased by income-qualified households. All of the projects would have to meet the but for requirement, meaning for any tip assistance that we provide, the project would not happen. And the alternative to completing this process and making these resources available would be to close. The district are like and returned the tax capacity, the tax base. What are the next steps? So a tree board and city Council will both have resolutions before them on NOVEMBER. 13th, the city council will have a public hearing at that same date. And then both bodies be authorizing the amendment, which would increase the revenues and authorized the additional expenditures. Future spending. So this action that would occur on NOVEMBER 13th would not approve any projects that would all cme before the tree board at future dtes. We would do the spending once we had received the Texan commence once they were in hand and we believe right now I'm projecting there's about 1, 1, and a half million that would be made available. Through the end of this year collections if this amendment is approved, so that would be a resource available provide to a project after the end of this And I think that's it. Was to 301, actually, if you kind just every everything is really a tough blanco. If really really come down So just so cear as well. That was super helpful. how much more money would be made available for affordable housing citywide. If we amend the plan and the way that you're proposing about 6.6 million and over 7 years and 1.4 million would be available. It the end of this year based on the collections? But only if we amend the plan. All right. And last week we learned about decertifying early and we would do that because sent all the money on eligible expenses, but it sounds like you're saying what we could do that here. Eligible expenses are affordable. Housing anywhere in the city were not restricted to the 65%. Like a redevelopment project. Turn commissioner is yes. In the case of a housing to district, we don't do not have that limit as long as we are continuing to spend for affordable housing. What the reason why we need to do the amendment our budget has been hit. So we have known no more after a station to spendable. What we have already spent. And so we have to amend it. And under that, if statute trying to amend and increase your budget is is a modification for modification as if you are creating a to district. Yeah, just add on to what did he say? When we adopt a tiff plan, there's a budget that we we make assumptions about how much income we think will be created. And That's why we have in the budget, which he says our budget has been met, like we we have to and then the budget because there's there's more there to use. And if we don't do that, we can't we can't spend it. It's just kind of formality that additional income is there to be used. But we have to go through this process to be able to use I. So this tip district another, it's generated more tax comment than we originally thought. When we the budget. acre commissioners, it generated more Texan increment more quickly. And that's why don't originally the projections were would would remain in place for the full 26 years. Thanks entertaining. MAY 301, other questions or comments that Thank For being able to once again talk was just I think my question really is just like. I'm trying to arrest the all the versus like the alternatives alike. What is the main in simple terms what is the main benefit of doing the amendment drought worsens, like return it back to the tax base. Acre Commissioner Johnson, the main benefit is provide resources to build affordable housing that otherwise would not be available rturn it back to the tax base. We wouldn't be able to do that, correct? Okay. Do we know what the to that to that point? What the taxable, the amount that would go back to the tax base would Attorney Kirk Commissioners. Yes. 4. Pay. 25. The estimated captured tax capacity is just about 600,000. So come. I think we have total 30 million in our tip districts. So what is that? About half a percent 600,000 back, the tax base divided by all 3 jurisdictions versus. 1.4 million this year for affordable correct. Yeah. And and attorney Kirk Commissioners, this action here. If we proceed with it in NOVEMBER to amend the budget, that still doesn't mean we have spend it all. And captured Al and not return to the tax base. So it just sets us up to do that and can continue full resources for affordable housing. But if something changes with that, that it's not like can't make a decision later on to decertify early. Is there deadline for which we would have to use this take advantage of amendment? Commissioner Johnson. So right now we if we continue to collect without amending, we have to The Texan comes to the county until under budget because they they they. declares it has excess tax increment. So we have to Okay. And if the amendment looking at the calendar had the looks like it's something that this plan would be. Most likely brought back to this in NOVEMBER. So in the event that something meant there was a resolution for adoption and it was adopted by the council and the a jury would there be another? What will be think of time? We would have to really utilize that for affordable housing projects, Attorney Kirk Commissioner Johnson, there isn't a spending dadline want amend bdget we can now capture and collected. Keep those tax increment as we collect them because we'll have a budget that in place. Ok, thank you. Thank you for the questions. And as that term is wealth, even after the tax, the tipp district closes in 2031, dollars can still be used. And te other question. It's just a staff reports for informations with actress NOVEMBER. Thanks so much as well. Item number 5, Sr 24 dash. 23 intro 2 additional dwelling unit to For it to the server to direct a good man. I want to say I'm really excited about this next item because as you all make a call from. feels like? Dcade ago at the very beginning of this year, we set some goals as a housing and redevelopment authority and and some strategies to pursue them. And one of those goals was to to encourage infill development. So to make sure that we're building out that gentle density throughout our neighborhoods that we have allow to happen through our want tougher unit, multi-family housing, zoning changes, but that we haven't necessarily facilitated beyond just kind of allowing it. And so that the tactic we decided to pursue is to create tools to facilitate infill development. And one of those was to create an accessory dwelling unit tool kit, which is something a lot of other cities have done to encourage that kind of infill density and are wonderful pd staff. Some took the ball, ran with it. And what we're seeing today is the direct result of that asked to them and a lot of really hard work on the part of our staff. So and might have just said everything here say that you're going in direction, given that thank you to make a commissioner's. The one thing I'll add is. Be used to play center accessory. Dwelling unit not all of the things that you can do with our with our changes are accessory to something. Some of them are just additional drilling in. So we we change the title to the presentation just to highlight it could still be called ad you. But we want to make it clear that they're not all accessory to something. So enamel go through. That's new plan. And Brown is here to go over this with you. But I want to just like that for you. If it if it looked confused why welcome is found. And I understanding is that your team is still open to suggestions for a technical sounding name for this tool kit. So ad you matter what it stands for aside, if anyone has some brilliant ideas at the table, I think the teams up Yeah, absolutely. Able good afternoon to make commissioners. Alright. So yeah, I'm here to talk with the draft guidebook currently cove additional drilling unit to paint. And so, yeah, that was a good reminder that this is pretty he strategy. It's also implementation actions from the one to 16 and housing study. That was that really made a lot easier to add housing units to kind of the typical residential at. I into effect last NOVEMBER. And then also just want to say that this was rebranded. It was kind of focus on the eu's. Originally. I know additional dwelling unit also as use. That's confusing we're working on it so this week and a focus moved it. The focus to just an additional dwelling unit. So whether that be an accessory dwelling unit atu or a principal unit, which is just your classic, typical normal unit. That a little right. So the purpose of this is to be a resource for property owners to help guide them through all the steps another housing units think planning its designing building, learning all the rules and moving in. Ad focuses on the h one h residential districts and these are the districts that are the result of that zoning study that implemented last last year. And those dozen most County districts. That most single-family homes are in those districts. So the supply to wide range across the city and help you really add add value to their property. So because now is allowed now alows most lots to at t add another unit that could be a viewer principle unit, the sky to help people understand which type of unit they would want to. At I's looking at the introduction here starting with why should you choose and other units by looking at this? They might already have the idea that they want at another. This kind of helps them figure out what other benefits they might gain fom that mentioned 2 different housing types, accessory, dwelling units and principle units. So the section provide information the property owners need in order to determine which which unit to belts. All rght. The process for adding unit has this press action is going to there's a process outlines this and what the timeline looks like have had people set expectations for what the but the steps that they'll be going through. This process starting with getting started. So that helps guide people through the through the steps really get started to learning all the rules. inspiration. I think about what they want in their property as meeting the costs and then other considerations like parking utilities, historic districts. I really nailing down on those things people want to know for for their projects. Right learning the rules. So this helps property owners and the rules about their lives really breaks. It breaks it down and take a zoning regulations that are different. If they choose to donate eu or a normal principle unit. And that includes all the other regulations that are really helpful for people to So we can include all the building code requirements that this help people understand things that they really should now. Also plan use a lot graphics and images. This is just a little sample of it. So that stuff the more to come. Looking at budget and finance. The section helps to lay out and pretty calm in financing options that people have other considerations. How this might impact their taxes resell costs. I design a unit this section House, information at the types construction that exist out training resources to that. And then as well hiring professionals and design and unit things that people want. We want to consider when they're And they're saying you that. And then for meeting as that might assist. Yeah, size informations, I'll be consulting with closely on Making sure that I have and everything that people would want to know about permitting for the interview, review all these processes that would that would kick in with these types of units. The last 0nd to last one here. And that is construction. So this would deal the process for construction and then also moving in and renting making sure people know where to access information on and moving in sending Alice saying the those kind kinof things. All right. And then that the next steps here and you MAY have seen initial draft document, there's a lot of empty spaces. It didn't work and consulting with said yes, i housing team on this this will be finalized in and design. It looked really pretty and want to graphics and hopefully is easy understand is possible. And then the next phase for next year working and prepare plans for to use principal units. Like I said, they're kind of interchangeable. Bt the details do matter for So. That's all I have. So I'm open questions or suggestions. Thanks so much. As questions, comments, ideas, names. Jenny, Craig courage. Anything that you're thinking, you know, my constituents. Would need to know at And if you're not seen covered here, you know, like so that out now or or any time soon, so that we make sure that we can add that this is kind of what we're thinking is the framework. But so to the scene and that you're thinking isn't covered. Included like this or any time soon would be the time to think Thank you. MRS. And it's your neck I think this I a really great outline for like the - overall tool kit. I think things that I've heard from some of my constituents are just and just kind of really in the details. But you know what type of like utilities and that type of thing are required to do well unit. So to me, that means it needs needs. He electricity needs water needs sewer. All that. And so I think that some of those details and what some of the requirements are because some folks are no really added this onto a lot that they already have and that can have some of it's own construction challenges and being able to meet the the code requirements. And I think the other thing that just as is interest to me the you know, you have I'm news live. Still have a building or house that often that is very old, Beatty old. And now you're trying build something new. And if there are coal requirements that, you know, requirements to bring any part of the existing construction up to code or just any challenges navigating that? I think that that would important for our constituents to know because that would mean at cost. I think that looking at some possible like cost estimates could be useful like. I think a lot of people love to do this in theory and then it comes down to what it would actually cost. That is one of the heaviest barriers. And so maybe just starting to give some examples of like. You know, model one model to model 3. Here's how they did it for this much money and just help people start to get their head around. What that could mean to they could start to plan because I think if I was like a random prson and I knew this was a resource, I'd go right ito the took it right away and be like I'm ready to do all the stuff that sounds great. And then they'd be like, oh, I don't have ad money. And so I know that it's like financing options is obviously a part of it. But even just one step before that, like what are we talking about here? What's the scale of what we're trying to finance and how can we do this and what are ways you can do it. So just give a little more detail there because I think that once a lot of people understand, but we're talking about here. I think that it would just make it even more real impossible yeah, I just think that could be another great example is help people help help bring it to life that So. It's budget season. We're talking about the money yet. So let's talk different Face here in the tank. Thank you so much. And thank you for the beginning stages of this. Lot phones kind of sharing the draft more that you have with us. That's really appreciated. I think one of the things but I kow that this kind of gets of like, if you want to start and where do you go, what do you do? But I even think sometimes that the city is a unique position where we have a lot of contractors division I can into but then are not rank until I am wondering if it's possible. Even as you guys are going through that the preferred plans are like the invasion visioning work for the preapproved plans next year and between now and then if it's possible to get kind of a lineup of resources for people, kid, if their conduct in the city and they have idea. But it's not. But it's not really fleshed out. There are places that they could call that are willing to talk to them organizations or contractors that are looking to do work like that, where it can be helpful to gather a smallest that might be just helpful for people who are just like I I want to do that. But I want to talk to someone and I'm sure the city staff are there, but I The housing team has a lot over to that. They do want I might be able might be kind of cool to proactively plan for few entities to send them the route that could help little bit more in death per person for sun-like having all of that and take come to the city Yeah, absolutely. That's right. Feel free to follow up with other. If you need more information, anything that's being said and they are taking notes otherwise and it's going person a person to overload you with think this a really neat kids. I was wondering if you can talk a bit more about bullet point where so that you could purchase a plan set purchasing your pre design plants et online. Can you say more about what that is that? And is that something guide that people can purchase like from the city or is that like a different sort of Web sites? Commission meeting So so you can go online and you can search Lake Atu plan set and there are resources. I mean, don't know how legitimately some of the websites are, that there are out there so people can use as an option from the city. They're advance or anything. But if it's just kind of like a stand-alone building, as long as that, if it's within the setbacks and fits our other requirements, it should work. So people do have the option at all. Just touching that a little bit that people do that. Because, yeah, know that that was out Thanks for sharing about it. Yeah. I also echo what Vice Johnson mentioned. I think if you really helpful. To also like the start, the contractors and the search program to be listed somewhere. Okay. We don't have a requirement at all. Right. For like people to have to do contracts contractors in the search program. Do I have that? Not sure if I like to make a commissioning. Do you mean at all like someone wants to build something in the city or when when when we subsidize something we have. We have leveraged to require types of complaints of someone just doesn't wants to build something. So we don't have as much leverage. So it kind of depends on what they're doing. Okay. Yeah. I was just saying it be helpful to have that list like that available in case somebody for doing this for the first time in, don't know where to go and seek different quotes from contractors. So I believe on our website we already have a list of those contractors available. So just making a connection between the 2 would be good. It comes just I think, and this is more in response to council meetings. Question about the pre design plants et. Just want to clarify my understanding of that is it's a pre engineered manufactured set of construction dcuments that MAY or MAY not require some like modification to them before. You can submit them for permit basically what that means. Right? They're not vetted by asset. Also like, yeah, getting in touch csi before you know, purchase. That would probably be a idea. But it's basically just that my understands it's basically expedite in some cases, the design process. If you already have. If if a manufacturer already has like and telling it like you're there to have drinks for it. And, you know, sometimes you can apply those in in different environments across the country. Sometimes you can't. But that's that's my understanding of of that. And those can you know, those can be helpful. Yes, yeah. And so to basically that that's kind of the prefab manufactured side. But there are actual ones that you can buy like the building plans for. So they're going to different things. But I but I I know you're Tuchman. Tunica commissioner, post. The because looking at 2, we're talking about a few different thanks to so there's there's like him say there's there's preserve prefab. Plans. There's their designs out there that people together and they sell. We also are looking at the next step that you mentioned is let's put together some pretty actual preapproved plants like some we these are dark. And when we have that, we feel like continue to expedite and simplified the process of someone's like I can pick from the 6 and I know it's gonna get approved. As long as you know, there's a few things requiring setbacks and having land in that kind of thing. But like that would even streamline it more. And that's that that was her from the West side that she had there. Okay. Yes. One point that the difference between pre designed and pre expect this. 1, 1, thought I had listen to the conversation. I think it would be needs kind of to it. So all these point earlier there it does seem like there's so many initial decisions you need to make or questions need to ask yourself, are you even know that you want to go further down this road related to your lot and you're zoning and your your finances. And so I wonder if there's I know you're looking to add graphics and make this, you know, very detective in user friendly and maybe a decision tree or flow chart at the very beginning. That sort of like should I build an ad you and the kind of walks you through all of those things in a pretty simple way. Might be a good way to start. And then I am also as I'm hearing people talk thinking about different audiences. I think this is right now designed very much for individual homeowner who's really new to the process doesn't know a whole lot about city zoning or codes or anything like that. It might be interesting to have and maybe in particular in the online version of this for you can link to different sections or skipped a different sections. One that is more for developers are contractors. MAY not need to know. You know why they're already being engaged, but maybe giving them more quickly to some of the permitting or are planning or other documents that we have. So just a thought. And then I guess last question is, do we know you and timeline mentions next steps us. Highlights do you have timeline? But when you want to get it? Ready put out a public. Yeah, I think the end of the year is over. And the other. Questions. think people are all that. We think a lot about names and we'll follow up with you Thank you for the really tremendous work on Excited to a product. Thank you. Item number 6 s are 24 dash one. 58 feature apd 2025 budget presentation carried over fact over 16 2024 a tree board why do that? Need to get a tissue. So please, ok, thank you to make your commissioners. So we've we've been going over budget for a few weeks now. And this week we supplied you with written responses to several of your questions during that during the previous budget presentations as well as and I made you a copy of this because it was e-mailed to you. But just in case needed the speeding. Year over year. Hr apd Operating Budget, which 2 pages revenue and expenses that you have in front of you. I want to give you general information about how we budget and have some of these numbers show up right now. And then I have a few specific ones that I want to cover with you today that I if I were you, I'd have questions about. And then if you have additional questions, will go there, ok? Well, they want to say in general and we've said this over the years. And and Nicole Green and I are digging into this We've very conservatively, meaning we we've budget and this is has nothing to do with what I'm talking We we assume will take in less than we usually do. And we assume will spend more than we usually a in both ways, quite a significant amount. So we feel like we can do better in the in the frecast piece, right? So that's one. That's something that I'm very excited to have knuckleballer with me to dig into how can we tighten up? Estimates of what we revenue will be? What we think our expenses will be. That said. A lot the things are, you I want to say volatile, but they depend on things that we don't have control of. Right? So we do. We do have to leave some latitude in in certain areas. So I'm gonna walk to a few things. Also the actuals that you see in the SEPTEMBER 30th column. A lot of things don't actually get book until the end of the year are very close to the end of year. So so some of them, you'll think like you, you budgeted so much. But you've probably spent any until cover some of those but know that it's never it. It's in every case. It's not that like when you're 75 per cent through the year, 75% of that, you know, spending happened or whatever, some some are pretty even like Like the, you know, some of the things that more predictable come in that way. But some not to let me cover a few things and then we can have more questions now and then we can continue to have question so, for example, the Federal Grants administration line, which is start the revenue page that you have in front of Mine great, big so I can actually see it. And I have some fun mind. But the Federal Grant administration line, you'll notice for one thing we've we've budgeted, you know, less revenue every year than than we've received in Athens. So we typically, bill, for more admin the we budget that said this year, we did not get a grant agreement from head until SEPTEMBER usually comes no later than JUNE. And so we can't start charging admin to it until we get the grant agreement. It's it doesn't I doesn't cost us anything. We can catch up, but we couldn't starts. Booking admin We have about 1.6 million and admin costs that will be charging. Like even as of right now to that number. So we will hit our expected our adopted budget at least but just sets an example of how things sometimes happen where if you look at a snapshot a day of SEPTEMBER, 30th and and wondering why we budgeted to to have 1.9 million in revenue. But we've actually only build for 157,000. That's very misleading because we do have a whole lot of that meant to Bill for right now. But we couldn't even start to do that until we hit receiver Head Grant agreement. Does that make sense? So that's one example. A jury parking intent, admin. This is a couple lines down and that one also right now is showing way less you would think. There are a few different reasons. Most of that that you're seeing there is parking in the 2 fat man it's a little different this year because a lot of our tif projects had at the the temporary tiffin them and that we have to allocate manually where we put that ad in which to district put it into so Jenny will do that before the end of the year. But it's just not been. It's just not been booked yet. So again, that's another number that you'll see rise, you know, dramatically before the end of the year and should be similar to our to what we project in what we adopted. But that's the reason why this and right now showing that get directed to I just wanted and following along correctly. So you're saying 2024 actual has to temper 30 for a tree parking into man is a lot lower. But we expect that to change because that basically is in progress to basically allocate that. Is my understanding that Tunica Commissioner, Julie, Guess that's it's it's just admin fees from tip that we can. We can build to that to the tif. But we have to do that billing and we have to in this case because a lot of it is the temporary to figure out which to district. We want bill that, too. And so it's just an accounting function that we still have to go through. But it there to be accounted for because those admin fees are getting build-out. Still exact, ok? And then the whole like. First example, before that one line was that I just heard Everything supper, which It the 3d one federal grants administrated. Okay. And I should numbers on these my numbers on these. But that was the 3rd. Then I went to the 5th one. Something I want to point out and there's a few of these. So the grants and contributions line, which is a couple more down and then enter fund transfers at the very bottom of that page and a couple of lines on the expenses, a to point out. We get money from Minnesota housing to these fix-up grandson. It's a pass through. So they so it's like a wash. The money comes in. The money goes out. So you see a budgeted amount that we never we never hit those. And that's because it comes in and it goes back out. So a point of that you and I can e-mail you this. So you know that they're they're there. I don't love the way we account for those, but it's just kind of tricky because it's it's kind of just to pass through. Almost all of it has to pass through. So directors that that's 2 of the grants, the grants and contributions line. On this page and the interests transfers at the bottom are both just pastors. Yep, they're part of this except grant passed through. Those are the primary things I wanted to show you on. The revenue. Page move to your expense page if you'd like. And I'll point out, just quit. Just before we go ahead, director. So I I think as I'm hearing you speak, it seems like it makes most sense. I mean. Knowing that different expenses are registered and revenue comes in at different times the year. I understand why looking at 2024 actual as of SEPTEMBER, 30th might not be. Very relevant, right? Because things might later in the year. But looking at 2022 2023. It doesn't like There. Several items where we regularly underestimate how much revenue will have come in. As you said, do we look back at that performance as we decide our next year's budget and just because it seems like most cases for 2025 we're proposing, think firly similar to what was proposed in the past, even though I've seen that we take it more. To make we do every year we sit down and we look at this. And again, I think I I believe Nicole and I can tighten this up. That said, we do have to figure out some of them. Some of them we know are more volatile. And so we'll have to we'll have to figure that out. Where we think we can be more confident and tightening up our forecast and where we might need more sort of flexibility. Yes, we do look at it. We don't just automatically carry over what we has been carrying over, but we can we can do better are forecasting. This is this is a theme we have that we that were working on together. And I mean, and this page anyway, it's a good problem to have and All right. Other questions on revenue before we move to expenses. And I know everyone's just seeing For the first time a lot this Not a question. Just a comment that there's just so much to absorb. And I've appreciated like just having this is a standing. I didn't keep coming back and talking through it. I think that I'm just naming allowed for Mellon process saying that I think that we'll just continue to need to digest this. And so I think that it is normal to feel the overwhelmed him and take we have several weeks to go yet before we land the plane on all of our budget. So I want to thank you, Doctor Goodman, for just being willing to talk us. And you can occur for making space in a in ongoing way, because I think there's just so much complexity how we get the work done and I appreciate having a standing time to talk through it here. So I just want to make that point because I don't remember also in previous years getting necessarily do that as much with a train budgets. And I think that process point has helped me personally. Only helps me great, but I hope it helps other people to thanks. Thank you. It's helping me You know, to make it. And Commissioner it's I think a great exercise even for our team. You know, it's I this is my 5th budget year and every year I find something every year I find something that I'm like, wait, you know, like let's talk about what did this, you know, so it is a lot. And I know I know that we we emailed this in that we some calls and e-mail that I have it in front of you we'll talk through it. We can keep talking through it and we'll continue to refine it. And truly im excited about ability to have some help in really tightening it up as we go over the next, you know, few years so I I also appreciate ability to continue to go after these things with want to move to expenses. Okay. That service is the second line is you're seeing that it's it's it's pretty low. That another thing that kind of gets built towards the end of the year. For example, like City Attorney's office has just completely and others, other departments and other other things that we do. These are services that are some internal to the city and some our Expenses that we have that the place and equipment and different things there. They're just things that often come in towards the most closer to the end of the year. So I tink if you look, you'll see that we've generally hit pretty close to our forecast on what we Other services would cost just know that seeing that number lower doesn't mean we're we've got a bunch extra money there. I suspect that we'll spend all of it. It'll speak between now and the end of the year that gets books. I wanted to highlight that I want to highlight the next one property maintenance and and we do have quite a bit still in that fund. Bt this is one that. It's a this is one example of one that a little bit hard to budget wheel in the hands you know, brewery still this year. The retaining wall, the historic retaining wall behind the facility failed. It has failed and we don't know yet how much that's going to cost or how much it you. It's historically significant. We have to do what we have to take every break out a number it like we have a consultant looking at that. It could end up costing us quite a bit of money. Maybe not. But we have, you know, various things that that can't we kind of that's one where we almost have to kind of budget for a little bit more than we than we think we might need. It's not as simple as we know. These things need certain amount of maintenance. So I just give you that to say, where that's when that will, you know, will carry over funding when we have it and we haven't used it and that one will probably hopefully often, you know, be higher than what we needed and not lower. We we'd rather have extra theirs and not enough to cover something that we need to pay for. Make sense. And the next thing a highlight is the home buyers homeowner Fix-up program line with just a couple down from that. Actually say before we do that, next line don't pd data management. Looks like. We haven't spent and that till now. That's a great question chair Nick are that is investment tracking system course departments after we've been working on for years. And I'll tell you that. It's tricky. All the departments try figure out what they need to to keep track. The hra is even more tricky because we have so much funding comes in for investments for housing and and what this means is, you know, you all and others often ask For analysis of where we spent money for this and how much housing it would've affordability and we want to be able to provide that information to better way the sites just keeping it on Individual spreadsheets. We also need a customer relationship management piece where every you know, all we're all talking to giving business and so is the port. So if someone else or who are 6 people in the department or whatever, so we want to be able to keep better track of how how we work on those things. And we also really need project management software to help us kind of push projects forward. So we've been looking at is there one system that will do all of thing should be do 3 different things. That's a big investment. It's hard. And it's not just about the initial investment that the licensing fees going forward for years. So we're still sort of limping along with multiple spreadsheets, but we've been working for quite a lng time tc and consultants to try to determine like. What we need in our department. And and we're getting very close 2 nearing down some options that we just keep just the same money that we keep carried over other than we spent some money this year on. Some consulting work to try narrow that down. I do think it's going to be important investment. I think it'll it'll work. It'll make our work easier and better. I'll tell you that. In the meantime, one thing we have done is we have we have a software called North Ridge. We keep a lot of loans, outstanding loans and other things in that haven't been updated since 2016 and we have updated that. So that will give us a little bit more flexibility. And that was that was not expensive. It something we should have done a long time ago. We just didn't. And so now we have. So we're looking at our data management pieces in all of those areas. But that's what that line is and why what the funding has continued to carry over. Thank That MAY have been more more informaiton nation, then you wanted, but all that, okay. The if you go down a couple of lines, the home buyer fix a program that line and on your next page about halfway down the interest fund transfers out. Tat's the watch of the that's the other part of that program that goes in. It goes out. So just you'll see those. Those for that. I've mentioned to 2 in revenue in 2 and expenses and I can explain that more to it another time if you'd like. But those 2, those 4 lines always looked weird because money comes in from the state and it goes back out and and it's just to watch never really make sense. When you look at paper. But I wanted reflect that for you this sorry. Thank you, Chair Nick or is that and like part of the past through category that you were talking about or is that something you have to make your Commissioner? Julie? We have a lot of past events like what do you do that? Typically call pass through grants. That's really what this is. It's not one that don't hear about it as much because we don't we bring each one to you for like approval. You know. That's essentially what it It's a pastor. We get the money. Pass it through to the to the homeowners. You I want to flag line when when it is but have to lay down civil unrest list deed match. That's a million dollars that we've been carrying over. And I want to give you an update on that. lisc has a set transition fund - that we allocated $500,000 to and they haven't been able to get that project. But we're very clips and we're hoping to close it by the end of the year Saint Paul Project. I don't have details here right now. But know tat that one's been hearing over the other 500,000 currently in the process being considered for the Plaza Del Sol project that many, many, many funding sources. And also hope to bring that by the end of the year, at least for your consideration. So well, I appreciate that. That's been carried over for multiple years. We're closing in on using those fentanyl be fantastic uses of the fence. So I just wanted to select few weather. Hasn't. Come forward. Their deadline of No, these are I mean, these are our fun. So. Just around 10 Exactly. Yeah. As clarified. So when you said that the Dow Plaza that's coming from the list, the Yes, Tunica Commissioner Bowie. It's that's that one. That's correct. There's 500,000 to list and 500,000 for te Match for the Deed program. And that would be pleasant Let's move down to and I'll say this this one is one that that. That we need to do better work or work on the all the way to bottom the rental rehab programs. You're going to see lot of money that's been carried over and not a that's been spent here. This is a program we've we've talked about this before. We have a big waiting list. There was a period that it was completely closed. We had no staff here at at one point for that literally like it wasn't moving because we had staff turnover We just didn't have anyone implementing that program. We do teens. Here is a supervisor in that department. He has hired up. He is organizing things and we have a well. We have a big way. The list. We have tightened up our processes and our procedures there and so all of that is going to be moving this year. We're great. You're forgetting. We have done in Saint Paul, but I just want to deflect for you that that's why I haven't seen that to be there. I don't I don't love it. I don't love that. We haven't been able to move things. But that's the one area where we haven't really had enough staff to kind of move that program forward and then we did so if you have any other questions, answer them. But that's the that's kind of the. Te simple answer to that question. Let's see. The rest of this is is I think pretty cut and dry. But I want to point out, too, that the bottom at end of the second page. there are multiple trips that transfers that we used to pay for our share of the intergovernmental relations position, fr example, or other things and all of that gets booked by Ofs at the end of the year. So you just don't see anything there because hasn't the county hasn't been done that happens at the end of the year, there and the one that you'll see that's different. The chief officers allocation. That was 949300. That now is just part of the service allocation. It's included in our services. So so that just that light just went away. But to Nick, you're commissioners dozens of the things that I I thought might jump out at you that you have questions about so much fun to just go ahead and answer proactively. But if you have questions about others and happy to try to answer and if I can't, I will get you those in for that information. I know you'd like to probably take this in a little bit more. And I I can come back and talk about it or answer questions offline for any of these things. At any point. Thank chair. Here had question. Director Goodman around inspiring communities. This is something that for. It Ising just went to see more growth, a month's time community-based development. So that proposed budget for $105,000 his act from the year before prior. Can you just explain is this from the dollar is like and what lies this number, the project compared to the same exact from last year's. That's a question. Commissioner and chair next I had the very same do mean? Delays? We are twins. Kids too many names right next we have other funding that goes into inspiring communities like like we use, you know, our various sources of funding. This was a little iss today like y $200,000 tat we keep hearing over. At some point that was allocated in and we always have a need that we use - our cdbg and things that are time sensitive or use limitations. First. And s we just haven't ever dipped into that will 100,000 that's been sitting out there. We probably need to just I today we talked about this like a Ford is carrying this $100,000 over every year. Let's just that. It came from our lone enterprise fund or or our general fund, which means it's that's are diminishing pot of money. So what we would do is just stop budgeting that. And that just makes the the demise of that sun to come a little tiny bit lss soon. But there's not probably good reason to continue to just carry a number that small over and when we have other funding sources for that program. I appreciate a fire in the program manager to Id be like I want to keep everything I can get there. And I appreciate that. And if it turns out that we need to. Reallocate funding for inspiring communities. You know, for anything as we go forward, we can always make those adjustments. But those are the things we're looking at is whether we have line items that we just continue to bring forward every year. And that's one of them that that we picked Thank you for asking that to have follow-up, not about the line item but just around the management of I how many fte as you think goes into managing inspiring communities. Chipmaker Commissioner Bowie. We 1, 1, to 3 people who work and are inspecting these program now and it's we're really looking does want t let brought to you all of our single-family, lots rh area. Lots that. Then up stone and single-family building single-family, which is what inspiring communities has been all this time. Was great and we've built a lot of single family homes. They they don't pencil really any more. Costs way more to build a single-family house. We can sell it for. We can within the margin to the owner, single-family lots now. So don't use often. The team been working on that coming back to to let you know that we'd really like to focus more calling it small scale development program instead of inspiring communities and it being more about multiple units. I think they're scheduled to come on NOVEMBER 6, which we can do. All of I think we want to propose without any kind of really actual changes because we have a disposition policy already that allows for that. So but yeah, I think right now we have 3, 3 people working on that program and multiple projects that we're we're still working on a lot of duplex projects in the last year. Many of those developers are emerging developers, developers of color who have gone through multiple of these programs that either we or others have done. So we're excited to be working on all of those. That's that's sort of the status of the summary of the status of the program right now. Thank you, Other questions or thoughts. This is a lot for folks look at this very basic question, which what's the difference from on the expenses sheet? What's the difference between salaries and fringe benefits and services? What are those 2 I know what alleys and fringe benefits are? But when we say services, what does that mean? You're Tunica Commissioner Jalali salaries and fringe benefits is literally our salaries and benefits for our staff to that's just yt pd staff. Yep. Services includes our building rent like all the central things that we pay for, building rent it has. If we have services that are like. Let's comprehensive plan. Another planning studies low recording again, city attorney fees Syria is a whole list of vehicle rental in storage. They're just it's kind of a line of things we have to pay for to function. You know, so that at times. Expensive. Yes, there's Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for the question. And fully understood that into there I realize it's very well know what got And also I wanted to understand because I i regularly see because it makes sense. We tend to spend the most on our staff, our people, our human assets, and then the next biggest line item for expenses that and I just wanted to understand what we were talking about. Thank you to the mix of U.S. This pane had also have one on one question for the revenue. Page and says transfer from Housing Trust Fund is that from Taft? Like is it do we? And also I don't want to open up another. 301, on on tif. But I'm just trying to see how do we know where? Like which fund or which source of revenue do we know that's coming the pulling of 10? Chipmaker Commissioner the these documents that you have are not reflecting tip for any sources other than our general fund. The Attorney General Fund and update, right loan and a price and and city general fund. S if it's pulling or has like. Pulling that, those things pay for, you know, for housing projects. This is our operating budget. But I'll tell you, but that line are you talking about the one that's like 100 and $42,000 proposed for 2025. A transfer from Housing Trust fund. They're going That is that salary and benefits we have in the in the Housing Trust fund. We have one housing principal project manager that gets funded by the Housing Trust fund that it's been like that. I don't know when it came up, but and that's just what that is. We make that transfer at the end of the year. So that's that's what that particular minus. So just for clarification, artist pull pays for housing production and doesn't go into a revenue commission and Commissioner Barry Tourniquet only the admin comes into this. This so the to fully goes to projects that if admin is in that line that I told you that we. We still need do some allocating some some charging of so that it can come into our revenue. Okay. Thank Questions. I think that boards them, they're all the you know, it. this side of the table told Ellen Court. No, I really appreciate this conversation. And I also want to acknowledge that missile at point, we don't often do this level of detail in public like this But I think it's really useful. It's helpful to be able to all talk about it together and it's helpful to build here, you know, and that you're willing to bring all of this out here and have this conversation about some pretty detailed subject is really really says a lot about the department and its very transparent and it's great. I think we'll all probably have some follow-up questions as we dive into this I would just say that we have not yet adopted budget. So to the extent that as you're looking at this and as you are looking at this and you think maybe there are some adjustments that we should make for 2025 because it's just clear that we're going to take in more revenue here or have fewer expenses there. Just want encourage us not to wait a halt calendar 12 months. If there are things that we know right now, we shouldn't because we haven't adopted about So So we can do is to tell his room to change our proposals in our minds until until there is And then lastly, I just don't know maybe make Alex did. I don't think that I got email with written budget information apart from this attachment. Chanticleer of commissioners. You did receive it in whole grains in it to you again last night. And actually, she sent these to judgment and piece of it with me, think like me to hand them to use it came from a cold rain to many. It is There were 3 attachments to her email. One was the with answers to the questions you had asked. And then the other 201 was a revenue expense. She yesterday. Sure that I have it. I will look for looks like others not confused. So it's just great. Well and then and then we'll just in my colleagues also by John said they're working on. Sort of figuring out our thoughts on what's been proposed for the attorney budget and we will be coming around to speak with all of you about your thoughts and getting your your ideas as we work to just like return to the city budget as we work to get the tree budget into final farm. So expect to be from a calendar request from a sunset over the next couple weeks. But if there things that you no right now that you want to see a major budget or don't see in the that do you need budget. Let me know so that we can do but we will be coming it as well. And jannik, let me just add to that just for clarity. What you have in front of you is not the true, but top rating budget. So I had made presentations. And talked about programs that we want to do and how we might want to use various sources of funding. And that's I think 10 acres. That like how we feel about those things that have been proposed. So if you need me you've received those presentations and You've got copies of the men. But if you if you anything from me to go through those discussions, let me that this was this was literally the expansion on. I think thing it in the budget presentation that we ask for specifically. So yes, and then I think there will be a little bit more information trickling out and follow up coming. Great with that. If there's nothing else to come before