Why reward to order roll call, please. here. Can And Chair Jones here? We have 5 present. For PRESIDENT. PRESIDENT Sorry. One upson in one being. a few minutes late here. The first item that we have on the agenda is the approval of minutes minutes. 25 dash 41 approving 9/10/2025. Library board Minutes. Great. Does anyone have any questions about the library board minutes from SEPTEMBER? All right. I'll take a motion from the council PRESIDENT Maker to approve the minutes all in favor say Aye. Will post. favor or oppose. The minutes are adopted. The next item on the agenda is resolution public hearing. 25
Dash 2, 2, 1, amending the 2025 financing and spending plans in the library agency. Special projects. And I will send us over to director Hartman to give us brief update about this amendment. The friends of the same public library have additional funds to transfer to the library before the end of the year in support of transforming libraries and youth and family services programs. This resolution increases our special funds, spending authority to allow us to income or and spend those months. That's great. Thank you. Director Hartman and thank you to the friends of library. Does anyone have any questions or any discussion on this item? With that? I'll take a motion from council vice PRESIDENT Kim to approve this resolution on favor, say
Aye, All those opposed. 5 and favors are opposed. Motion has been The resolution has been The final item on the agenda I staff report. 25 Dash 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, library materials update. And I will turn it over to Jeff Schaffer and just hard to give us presentation about library materials. Welcome. Thank you for being here. Thank you to board members, we here to present a various materials inflections. Just update on that to be the same time last year. That to let you know where we're now. Particularly regard to budget proposal. So the first part of this is just overview of the proposal that will affect our library collections budget. There is a proposed reduction of 65,000 70 $79, which represents about 6.3%.
Library materials budget in conversation again with the friends who so generously support efforts the time. They have agreed to help us by working on a special fundraising effort to raise $40,000 of that cuts to offset that and make our actual reduction in the budget. Only about 2.4% of our current budget. We do know and you'll hear more about the constraints that we have with that selection budget just today that that any reduction in budget does impact the types and volumes of material that you have a cable show it. Actions. But it is every piece of our budgets physical materials to audio books. CDs final. The whole gamut and it also reduces our ability to purchase new materials and keep up our purchasing power. You know, the conversations
that we've had in the past, we've looked at our base budget and then a series of different percentages that we would need to have. To just maintain the level of purchasing power that we have at this point in time to be able to increase the budget or be able to make some submit significant investment it. This is just a quick overview of where we have been over the last couple of years. Our base budget for the library materials. Essentially the same 2025. You see that reduction that's proposed there. The difference is in the adopted budgets. 24 25 thanks to the efforts of this council was in 20 $2450,000 at it and then want another 175 which represented that 15% rate that allowed us to maintain purchasing power as well as put some investments
into things like specific election assessments and investments focused Certain by location. For 2025, w just wanted to give you a little breakdown of what budget is made up of. When we're talking about the general fund, we have reckoning about $857,000 hre. Every year we apply for the competitive portion of the country. Star $175,000. And that goes into our base budget for collections. And then this year, 25 you'll se that doubt allocation made Here's a general fund total. We also add to our collections through fees, miscellaneous revenue now Southern Metropolitan Library Services Association. He manages the formula Dollars that are distributed to us. And then funds coming from the front of the Saint Paul
Public Library. So with the special fund and general fund, we have this 1.0, 6, 7 million dollars and then the city being 1.4. This I returned over to Materials. Management supervisor talked about what we've done with those wins. Guess thank you to watch. thank you everyone having me here today. I want talk first about what we've been able to accomplish with the increase. We signed a budget last year. And we were able to maintain year spending on digital materials which doesn't sound that exciting. But talk a little bit more about our challenges there. We've had additional funding for kids, materials, particularly particularly graphic novels nonfiction materials really excited to announce that we will have read along books available system I by the end of the year. So those are like the picture books that have the
built-in audio player with them. That's a replacement for the base that have the paper and cd player fewer and fewer people have seen the players and their home really well received. Really excited, too. Expand that early literacy offering to the whole city. Continued our investment in purchasing replacements for high use items and outdated content. This is a little bit bread and butter library work. You know, things are being used legally. We want to make sure they're in good working order. If things are out of date, we want to make sure the replay. So we have accurate information for patients. During years where we have budget challenges, it's hard for us to maintain those activities the way we normally would. And then we've been able to further develop the confusion community informs collections pilot that we started last year at Rice Street at the
Rondo Library this So that project is in process right now. Run staff have been gathering feedback from the community members at their community conversations series which allows them to egage with patients in a few different ways about the collections are also running a survey and then we've begun spending based on the feedback we've heard, which is really run the gamut more action movie is great courses. Dvd's. Louis books, Twilight saga. Biographies, really a wide range of interests that we've heard. When I was here last year, I talked a little bit about the Rice Street Library pilot projects a Swiss engagement from the community about what's in their collection. And that was still in place as we were working on it. Then. As a result of that, that
project we did at around 1200 items to that question in response to community feedback and with the extra funding that we received for collections. And that includes an Arabic language collection. And this is substantially refreshed. Spanish language collection for kids at that location. In addition to making purchases based on what we heard from community. I wanted to mention I had a chance to meet with the project team that worked on that project. And one thing that was great hear from staff I thought was this project allowed them to make connections with community and talking collections and what they're looking for and what they need. And it opened the door build relationships, community and to be able to say what you need. And also here it is we we were able to actually respond, which doesn't always happen. We hear
people need. Eluded to our challenges around digital materials a little bit earlier. Wanted to talk. Broadly about what our trends around to digital materials are looking like. So. When I say digital materials and talking about a book and eye of a collections primarily. So as you can see in 2015, really the majority of our circulation was coming from physical materials, patrons coming into our doors, checking out an item, bringing it home and about 14% of the circulation man was from digital materials. That was, you know, a fairly ancillary part of what we were doing and Twenty-twenty was a and inflection point for us. And for most libraries, I think as patrons weren't able to come into our buildings in the way they normally did. So we saw
that shift closer to a 60 40 split. So 61% of our circulation was from physical materials that year and 40 39% was from physical. Our firm digital excuse me. And then our year to date this year is exactly that breakdown. So I think kind of we're stabilizing around that. That level of circulation from physical versus digital, you know, plus or minus a few percent each year. And I have a question. Do you think it's interesting to me that proportions or so the same from Twenty-twenty do you anticipate don't know what other libraries are saying that maybe they will start to transition that maybe not back to pre-covid but just. In the other direction that
folks will get more prep materials Yeah, don't really have a sense. It will say a big difference from 2020. And 25 is just the overall number is much higher you know, understandably not a big circulation year for us. We're seeing more overall check out materials. But, you know, I think to me, my sense is that our digital borrowers are continuing on and that that of it for the You have a follow-up question. Wat percentage of the additional materials are ones that you think are? Like for you loan content, have in circulation. And I'm sorry, if like the question sounds a little too The last year a kind remembered. It was like a demand for materials.
And if we didn't acquired herself, we would maybe like loan or lease buy or rent ourselves so that we can put in circulation. How much of that do you think is driving sort of this sort of like new consistent digital? Demand versus physical physical books like is there percent that's meaningful. Not are not really at all. I I could talk a little bit more about just how are look at the moment. Words and that will happen from the question. If you want ask yes, and feel free to not have to answer to this. I realize it's not the most in-form question asked it but interested is new material comes out. And our ability to purchase and refresh our physical book stock. And also like meeting the
demands of like the things that folks that come into libraries and looking for books. And do have it right yet that it's drawing people into the library as as an interest. So I just sort of wonder that sort of like that like the thread of my my thinking, feel free to nine's right now that I'm just sort of interesting member that that was a question last year's budget. Is that that line item for the library's ability to get like printed material. That's what it's like outside of our normal circulation, the more demand and was popular was diminishing. Some just sort of that's okay. Those are those points are connecting with Thank you for giving space to us they question. Yes, it's a person, a person. I'm not sure I have meaningful information but we can follow. Yeah, thank you. I in very well to conversations number. Another
question. We're just We're no, it's not Do you do you watch the transbay location like actually kind eye more. So curiosity question, where of life the library safe that we have like where we're seeing some of the more Maurice, a physical, our mindset digital like 2 guys. Fact that by library we we again, that's the having dig into a little bit more. If you're interested in specifics, I don't have members. I'm super confident about right offhand. But we just take a look at, you know, overall trends and you know, which are seeing are checked It's not extremely easy with their digital connections to see exactly where they're checking out. We can share and that an often what we find is
they travel together a lot of the time with the exception library go where we do have some usage and the digital collection and a lot of times in our high use, lbraries and physical are also it was like, is pictures are also using a digital collections. more it's sure ask more so like men cheat than the discussion and seeing the numbers. That's just one day like in my neighborhood like things that the case or is it more digital physical? So we resurgent Councilmember Coleman. Thanks to just thank you. Circulation as just go back to the community informed collections process. Super Snow a little bit more about
that thinking, particularly in the context of the reopening of the Hamlin Midway library. but I guess is leading to 2 questions. One. Frgive me if getting So feel free to. Definitely tougher the slate as well. But and I just I'm curious to know what's happening with that collection sense. Most of the preview of the collection from the previous iteration libraries coming back. But obviously there's been a gap in time. So I assume that there are some updates that we would like your help to make air and also really care. So the possibility of timing around the community and from collections process and if it would be possible to do some of that engagement. Future patrons of the New Hamlin Midway Library before that opens in 2026. Yeah, I can't speak The second I think certainly would
be interested conversations with community members. There is some funding set aside for rebuilding the collection of Hamlin. My my team and I have so many King plans. You know, When we closed that building, we went through the collection kind determinations about what items in storage for the library reopening with a timeline that turned out not to be accurate when the library reopens. I there's definitely there will be work to be done. Rebuilding what that collection looks like. Thinking about nonfiction books that have a lot of timeliness of them. And like, ok, will this be? Good in 2024. And now, you know, would be asking different question if I had a time machine. Thank I think comes from we didn't then we'll go to
council PRESIDENT Thank you, Just thank you so much. I question out of curiosity, learn more about the circulation process. the plant are there multiple platforms for for patron to something or reserve a physical copy or digital copy? imagine as a refresher I think last year e we learned a lot about was at I believe and maybe I'm making this I don't know. But I swear it. Was that It if people out of patients are able to order additional materials, app are they also have opportunity to order them inside of the library's. If there's like multiple platforms, if there are so over physical collections are available our Web site through the library's app and then many of the digital
materials can also be reserved through the library's website or Bt they can also be reserved through our vendors platform. So there's to pass for folks digital can I add in? Most people get our digital materials through the Libby app. So that's probably the number one thing I hear from people on the community as I love Levy Libby. Is this we purchase and it's how you get connected to our digital. All. Materials you put in your library card and then they are delivered to you via your phone or your iPad or your Kindle. And just because actually get us playing how that works in her next slide. You're right on topic. Thank you. I love all of you And I will send it over to council PRESIDENT Maker, thanks just interested to see
the time her as that interval that we need to those different paragraphs, that it's 5 years. And in particular interesting to see the 2020 2025 at the same obviously with pandemic was in between there. That's pobably all kinds of different. But wondering I would have sort of expected that the digital trend would continue grow and seeing that it is at the same as 5 years ago. I guess I'm wondering just a point in time. But from what you know from the literature from our peers, cities, just what you observed. Do you feel like we're going continue to trend towards digital more and more as a possible that we sort of had a stabilization We might be here for a while and asking her because I know the budget considerations about to get to where really relevant. I am not sure. I think a
big prt of why our usage has stabilizes because the percentage of our budget that we're putting towards the digital collection has also stabilize. So I know some. You know, urban libraries are putting 60 70% of their collections budgets towards or digital collection. And they're probably see more usage. That's not. Not where we are right But I think. I think we MAY right now have a little bit of capacity. We've had our capacity meet people's demands and interests in the digital collection. Based on our funding Yeah, I think council PRESIDENT, that's a great question because if we put more money into the digital side with more people than use it because that would lead
Shorter. Wait times. I'm assuming for folks and maybe more people might use it. Maybe that would shift. Consumer Jones. Yeah, Ithink just to follow up and I think remembers well, just the the digital materials often have like a time frame in which they're active in our catalog. Like we basically have second a lot of amount of times. We purchase it for that. All right. And to have it available. And I think that. You know, in relation to the price of costs the investing utilize it. I think also come from. What are kind of want to look like what we have, what we want to purchase what you know, what point as the interests of additional
materials gets? 4 increases more. And so I think just general, that's something that I. I thought the trends of it just kind of thinking really understanding what we should be investing in stems from that of like how much of our digital. Those off of the year, how much we have to renew common digital materials that are sught after and we we that mean our team that happened so we try something else or get some more access and they are got pretty much you don't really and a little bit differently than if we have like a physical hardcover book will just keep it in our systems Hopefully, you know, it's like hoping the return of and then we can forever. But like of a digital pieces, I know we have an expiration date. So yes, really intrigued by added. I think it's really cool to see just what trends were seen in that regard. Just
how are keeping up with the the city person can questions. Feel free to just like fall with me or not. But I have a question of the circulation question. He has assertive. Like the libraries have such a unique challenge, but opportunity to just be like a resource for anything that folks are walking into in terms of like knowledge and learning and like having access to a book or like additional thing. But no wonder then like our physical, like for physical books. Mission is to say is my bias. There's nothing better in my mind cracking open. A new book Take Deep Press. Walking a book stores but how much do all the material then to to kind of the stock and demand like for lack of a better word today. But like relevant to the to the like emerging both needs but also interests of
the same of Lake Saint Paul residents alike. Do we do purges to kind of keep the staff that we have sort of like fresh and because like, again, you have just such a unique challenge, but opportunity to like Meet said of the growing need of like what are conscious interests are as like Saint Paul resident. So yeah, yeah. Yeah, we do. Do will be a service collection maintenance activities. So a lot of that is outlined by our collection development policy. So we take a look at, you know, if something is damaged or broken and we would remove it from the collection. It's out of date or if you've got a new version of it, it's something that is no longer being used. So it was something that was very trendy. I mean, no wonder
trendy we would remove it from the collection to maintain the relevance of the collection and to account for the fact we have physically constrained buildings. So we can't we can't keep everything realistically in our space. Do. I don't have, you know, percentage, you know, ideally, we're kind equilibrium rate stuff going out as a signal stuff coming in. But that's always the case. Yes, a sort of interesting to note unlike the trend. Like I think thing that we're all kind of traveling around us like the trend of service, that stagnation point. And realizing that like we're only going to get as much demand is what we can offer that digital space. And then similarly structured of our physical books, right? We're only. Like if I look at that number in my head that I'm assuming that the books on the shelf for the most like relevant in the ones that we
can get for this moment in time. And we're trying to lose staff at that. That that interest level remains sort of the same in terms of the amount of circulation that we have. So it's more of just like a general outside, like wondering out loud. But it's just sort of interesting to see the numbers, the numbers in that way. And and hearing hearing the budget implications. And if we create demand or interest in products we could see an increase, but just or ability to be able meet until those demands MAY limited. I just counselors for those set really nerdy engineering things, maybe because the city Culliver am so like there's there's I don't do this often, but there's there's 2 types of equilibrium, their static equilibrium and dynamic
equilibrium. And I think what I'm hearing is you're concerned about a steady people room where you would stand Ram things would be balanced but they would stay the same The dynamic equal rammed things could evolve or change but still be equilibrium and balance. So it seems like that's what we're looking for. Yeah, as we're moving forward, being able to adjust to the times but still have the right balance that we need in our in our collections department. When when also a necessary. Also this morning, customer justice talking about how at your job you implemented the system that we just implemented, that you noted that was 10 years ago. I like died. This is where 15 years. and see, I won't do that know what exactly that point, actually. Yes, exactly. That point. Thank It. I think are.
The didn't amazing job previewing the rest of what I was going to about. So. How just heard it content is through licensing from the publisher and it is through that 3rd parties to the vendor is overdrive. Their app is called Levy. So hear folks talk about maybe that's what they're talking with. A 3rd party platform where we purchased publishers isis. Prices that we hear often much higher than the consumer prices. So adea vote that might be available through consumer platform for $20. Michael is $8220 s. And as we all licenses to expire after a set amount of time or number check So if we are going to maintain the item in the collection. We need to make purchasing decision to keep it in my collection. Just an example of what this looks like with the
real-life Kristin Hannah's the women, which was really popular last year at for for a print copy for physical book. We get discounts vendors so we pay 16 ad for a copy where the retail price for that $30. But then on on the eve side, libraries could expect to be $60 for one versus 14. 99 for consumer, even coffee. And 59. 99 for library. E on bike versus, you know, around $20 for Consumer audio book which is challenging a one item level. But then we're having to buy multiple copies in order to meet demand compounds the challenges we haven't Our budget capacity to meet that We've seen significant price increases over the last several At least one publisher is having, you know, double
digit price increases year over year. It a publisher's view every sales as last individual sales and set their prices accordingly. So they're thinking that a library check out sale. They didn't get. So they're they're extra offset that. And then because we're in the realm of digital rights management with license for says the for sale draft Dr IRAs have limited, right? So first sale doctrine. The idea that you are the library when you purchase the physical material, you own that book you that cd and you get to decide how to land it. Put a to how long to keep it. And that's just not the case. Digital environment, the terms are set entirely by publishers. Despite the challenges we are committed to maintaining a digital collection. In addition to the fact that it's popular and he's making up a large portion
of recirculation every year. E-books have accessibility features built into the text and audio content or low vision or are blind users and they're available for patients who can't come into our buildings for easily for a variety of reasons. The audio content really makes up about half of her circulation in the digital collection. And b, because physical media is becoming less viable, fewer see the players and homes receive hires and cars. Fewer tiles coming out on physical media. The audio content is. Down a little. He argues is the most viable way for us to deliver that content. And it is it is the area of our collection where we see the most growth over the past several years from their pitches have a general Jackman
format preference for digital content. Convenient. It's great to be able to have. Couple of books in your bag for a few good stuff. Can read a book and you don't have to. We're even making it to the library before it closes. We do want to try to meet our patrons where they're at and what they're looking for for us from for content. So obviously alluding already to the challenges we have around. Maintaining our collection. Did in the face of increasing prices and the challenges of digital content. If we are to have budget reduction, we will see wait times for all materials increases audiences in all formats, digital content likely see the biggest impacts our prison challenges there. And the fact that we already have higher we times
in collection. Question will be less robust. So this is, you know, speaking to the relevance of the question, fewer new titles, you know, less breadth of offerings, fewer Midwest others you're debut. Or not items and are they content doesn't get replaced as often as as it should or would desire. Replace we MAY have Discontinue services or from entirely, you know, we offer some data basis is support students curricular work. We MAY not get to continue those whatever reduced or very limited capacity for special collections projects that allow us to innovate or pilot new ideas. So that's the read along that are so popular started out as a pilot projects race. You can community collection are examples of things. We would have a harder time doing with budget. And yeah, less able to respond to the changing
community needs information environment. So that idea around Lee, how do we? Bring people into the library and you factors is a live report. It is much harder to do if we don't have adequate budgets and meet how needs are evolving in format is are evolving. It actions have cumulative impacts collections that are invested in become less relevant to the community and community is not seeking them out as often maintaining a relevant to the question is easier than overcoming the challenges of a collection that has not been invested. And, you know, we're really grateful for the recent additional investments we've had in collections that help move us back for building back our collection budget. After years challenging budgets for us. like we have some I can do it again. I don't Go
counseling for the changes. At question around the time, the due publish eu regulations. You're like actually regulates our digital pup or not are but digital publishing rights as a whole. And then if what is the extend? Our city attorneys can examine, you kow, if it like association are some see statue majority. To explore, you know, looking at those changes because I can only imagine you know how that can actually make our really hard with making sure those products are available reason. Cause We'll start with the caveat that I'm not a but my understanding is that mostly the the regulations that govern. Even digital content licenses are copyright So what what also, you know, probably
some other like consumer trade. Agency, I know I'm states have tried to pass legislation to get fair. You content pricing for libraries and those not yet been successful. And part 2, the provision provisions and copyright Coleman. Thank you one of question on that divide between fiscal materials digital materials. You all have any demographic data and need civically it. When you were mentioning just accessibility of all of our digital materials that that might skew towards older under families are I in person and check out a physical book. But I have no idea that assumptions. All right. Don't know. We record that information and like her permit a data about patrons. So I'm the best we can look at library go as a proxy for like younger Burley do data Adult director of All-Star. one thought on the
demographics question there. Library go is a big user. So library go as our partnership with the Saint. Paul Public Schools were all saying public school students automatically have an eectronic library card. That's the same as their school id. They ue a lot of digital content to. So just I think the story around digital content is much more complex than and we might assume we're seeing like young people. The whole point of why So folks could access e-books and databases on their school-issued IPads. So I think that's making a portion of We're also seeing people are reading off a candle, but they're reading out their phone, right. So I think a much more diverse and always user group is using our
digital content just like Jessica says, we don't you know, we don't collect demographic some folks that have a library card. So we don't know that. But it's a really good question that we can keep thinking about like how to distill more of our on our day. Data by areas of the city, for example, could be interesting. And one just follow up Jessica said when you're a digital user, you don't name your library, right? So digital content doesn't get tracked in the same way that physical content. So if you check something out from Arlington Hills, it's Arlington help like we know it comes from Arlington content doesn't work that way because you don't have your own library that
it's coming from. Coming from Cloud Library. If that helps, it sounds like slightly different data from black chain. It's a present make thanks really appreciate the presentation. And I think the good news is that this library board passed a resolution committing to not letting purchasing power decline in collections. So I think all of the points are well taken about. The impact of that. And I think eeryone around this table chairs a commitment to keeping keeping those dollars I wanted to just ask how other library systems are dealing with the move to on the increasing I think in the past. We started talked about is like, yeah, this is really unfair and it's hard. And you know, but we just sort of have deal with that. And I'm curious if they're in innovative ideas being tried
in other places to accommodate the demand for digital, but also the fact that it's extremely, extremely expensive. Waivers are trying different approaches. I don't know why. How many of them are having success with different approaches. You can try lot of different purchasing strategy is in order maximize your dollar. There have been attempts in the past to get kind drm free collections for patrons and the challenge there is. The big publishers that are publishing the blockbusters with marketing budgets that pitchers are going to hear about are not going to let the library have. Digital rights management, free version of their. You've also attend is content that was less exciting for patients to check out didn't get used. But I think it's something that I a tracking on and
members are frustrated by think most libraries are struggling with how to. Meet demand the challenging environment. Also yeah. So we are collection. We are part of that a larger Twin Cities consortium that is administered by most of the Metropolitan Library Services Agency or Regional Public Library system. And so members. Representatives from member libraries. We are constantly trying to refine our strategies policies in order to maximize how are patients experience the collection in a way that, you know, it is contained within our budget capacities. So we changes how purchasing is happening on the consortia level to try to get more access the titles versus like fast access to really popular
titles. We work with each other just strategies and how to manage policy and how we can try to you know, effectively work with the budgets that we Do we have any other questions? I want to thank you both for your presentation today. And I really also just appreciated the discussion from from our colleagues on this council. PRESIDENT Maker said that we you know, especially hearing hearing the impact of of our collections and especially the financial impact if we if we're not continuing on with maintaining that, it's really important to this board that we do what we can, you know, not just for next year and it really, again, appreciate the friends of the library for their for their help for next year to build up make sure we can still povide what our residents need. But also thinking in 2 years ahead and what that might look like for
for collections. Thank you again nothing else to come before us. We are adjourned.