I'd like to call the library board meeting to call police. Churchill's 5 present. To action. believe to be excused. The first item on the agenda is approval of minutes minutes. 26 dash 12. Other board agenda for 3 for 2026. This is approval of the library minutes from MARCH take a motion from Councilmember Kloman to approve or any discussion. Seeing none. All those in favor say Aye. Aye oppose, oppose. Evan favor or oppose the minutes have been adopted. The second item on the agenda that's up for discussion resolution 26 Dash, 5, 1, 3, author as extension to the memorandum of understanding between the Saint Paul Public Library and the Friends of the
Saint Paul Public Library. for extension to for a relationship with the friends, libraries. We expect this really are very appreciative of take a motion from Councilmember Kim to approve this item. Is there any discussion? All those in favor say Aye, votes. 7 and favors are opposed motion. Front? The next item on the agenda in staff report? Staff report any sick stash. 52 library needs assessment. Wonderful. This is the main presentation for today. So I'll turn it over to director Hartman for our Library needs assessment. Good afternoon Chair. Just library Thanks for opportunity to present to you. So every
year in city statute is the requirement for the library director to present there a needs assessment for the upcoming year to the library board. So that's what I'm here to you today. How we have on traditionally handled this kind of a state of the library. So share some 2025 statistics and outputs. We'll talk a little bit about our successes and challenges this year in twenty-twenty and then give you a little bit of a preview summer challenges lie for way ahead of that budget process getting started. So I some of the data points you've heard from me and other places. But I think it's really important and helpful to see them all in one slide.
We have about 23,000 visitors a week to the library in 2025. It was it was down about 6%. It was a long time ago. But you MAY recall the digital security incident from JULY and SEPTEMBER. And so that's what we believe. If you look at our numbers, they're sort of pace to continue. And then we fewer visitors in the 6 weeks that we did not have the Internet or public So w are glad that we're through that and everything is back to normal on the other side. But that was a head for public is saying services and the library in person speculate about 55,000 materials every week. Despite the digital security incident that was
only down just a little over one percent last year. So our circulation numbers continue to go up. Our electronic circulation e-books goes up faster than our physical, But our physical circulation still makes up over 60% of our total circulation. So as you know, as we've discussed before in this space, that's more expensive for us to buy e-books. But it's also an increasing demand. We know lots of folks are seeking a resource as for accessibility, convenience and lots of other reasons as well. I want to make sure that as we think about library and what we know it to be this this group understands, but not everybody always does that the meeting rooms and our library is our home. One of the most valuable services that we offer to the library. So we continue to see
that go up in the years post pandemic and why you see continuing to Invest other ways of making study rooms and meeting rooms available as we renovate our library Our programs and the attendance in our programs did go down in 2024, some of that is related to staffing levels in the library. Other is related to. Focusing our attention on not as many, not so much like more programs but or intentional programs of the ones that we have. Additionally, we had over 3,000 computer sessions and 1800 Wi-Fi sessions per week. Our WiFi sessions were down slightly. We believe that study the digital security incident. But in general, we're seeing Wi-Fi usage increase and we're seeing
computer stay stable or go down a little bit. So we saw that go down significantly and 2025 to computers not being director. Ben, do you think that? You know, 2025 page 2024, and in this past year and so coming here, you know, we've had ground a library trick transition. How you can round it seems like a scene similar activity, Brown, but there are also in opening hymn and Midway Library. So do you do anticipate seeing these outputs like increasing, even though it's kind of like looking at it? Some of the numbers originally counter. What do you think might happen yet? You're thanks for that question. So. Are you suggest how Brown is good? But it's also less than it was at the Rondo Community Library. And we can expect given its location and
given the size of the space, what's higher at our Holly Que Brown locations program such as really, really interesting. So we have more programs and more people attending those programs that we dead at our permanent location we will definitely see an increase in visitors and circulation when we reopen Hamlin, you can generally expect that when you built a new library, you have a significant renovation. The standard across the country is about a 30% increase in traffic ad circulation. My guess would be that will be a little higher than that for him. One. So I would expect that. Visitors is going to keep going up. But I I think the decrease and visitors for Rondo and the increase in Hamlin might balance each other out. And circulation continues to go up
a little bit each and we also pay nights as well. Closed Now, generally. Hamlet, we would expect more visitors and more circulation that are Hammond Library then or hate where, you know, will have only a few months, probably of Hamlin being open. A great question. City Thanks, chair That's sense to me that when we had no internet people the library is frequently. Did we see rebounded fairly quickly after the details he instead was resolving or did that compactor numbers for? Was there a long tail from that? Churchill's councilmember people were very happy with the computers and the printers turn back time. So yeah, we would. We very spread very quickly. That those services were again available and it came back pretty pretty nicely. PRESIDENT. It makes here at director Kunis mention the 40 programs
per week that the attendance being down. 25% over 2024. And you talk about that is the staffing issue. So it sounded like it was that we were offering fewer programs not to 10 tons per program is lower. Do we also track attendance at the programs we do offer and over time to see what's of interest to people and to determine problems for the future catcher Jos Councilmember, thank you for that question. That's cracked. So we have an internal at any time we offer program. We have the it's on our website at that and then we have back door where we put in attendance and so staff for the program. Leads are responsible for adding that each time we also valuations for a lot of our programs that we give to participants are participating. If you are every brave, you would have seen some of those to help us identify We meet our goals,
right? So if we had identified an outcome in advance for goal and then branch managers and branch teams are expected to do that. To write a look at everything that we've offered and make changes to either. I want to say have more people at it because sometimes a program is only designed for 5 people so that if you have 5 people, you've met your But if you have a capacity of you're hoping for 30 and you only got 2 and we're going to need to like, keep tweaking it or try something new in order to make the best use of all of our time. and chair, do you have that date as to what was happening? Program attendance for the programs that are being offered in 2025? In terms of compared to 2024. Churchill's councilmember, that's a really good question.
Yeah, probably and I can probably get it to. Yeah. Thanks. Could keep going so 2025. I know we've talked to already a few times this year, but I'm gonna take this opportunity to highlight. Some winds from 2025 and yet this since we are already in APRIL we've had 2 years of standing room only at are brave talk brave of that last year at library and this year at Arlington Library with 150 people or more in attendance. And additionally, the part that's not public, but just as important as the share the over 1000 students and Saint Paul that are author his own. Piece Romina Garber. I got my theft brought her but will be sauna to sudents well. Really, really proud of that. Team really that. Last year we made a
transfer main library's improvements. So that meeting rooms at Merriam and race Street as everyone knows where thing Hamlin Midway Library later this year and just close Heights library last week for temporarily to we are reopening in 2027 and then we'll have our Rondo Library opened at the end of this year. Our library safety work that I presented at a number of times and certainly will do so again. I couldn't be more proud of the work of our library safety team and the rest of the library staff who have embraced to have learned things who have worked together with them, the skull as colleagues and our safety manager Alex Curry. But or incidents were down in 2025. Over 40% from 2024. And that's to do the hard work of that
team and the staff that surrounds as well all te folks that are leading this work, as I think about all the cool things I've had an opportunity to do in my library clear this is one of the ones that I'm the most proud of. Want to mention head to special edition of my very hard straight might have here last year. launched commemorative card to celebrate the 50th anniversary Southeast Asian immigration Minnesota. One of the reasons we do that, the we want people to have a new library kites. And it's a great opportunity work a local artist. But we also want to increase the number of people that haven't use a library. Her. And so in 2025 we saw a 24% increase in the number of Saint Paul residents who have used a library card. And that's something we'll be continuing to increase. Think
that said not track That's important to us. We're going to continue to support our libraries. And also we want folks to opt-in to use So we will continue to. More to come later this year about what our next special edition library card itself. Yeah, you wait for that with excitement. But but I'm not saying anything more I'm also really proud of a lot of the internal work that we've done that we don't get as much of an opportunity to be in the paper. 45 1% to this And one of those is that was started our internal Library Labor Management Committee last last year. That's monthly meetings with one to 2 members of each of the 5 are getting units that's in the library. I'm proud of how that team is working together. We certainly don't always agree, but we bring questions and we bring
the cost each other and we work for together. Much more work to do there. Talk about staffing, allowed check that schedule tact that safety being ad other topics that are brought to table. Calls for Lakers. Thanks, MADAM Chair. Really appreciate hearing about selected wins and appreciate that. You're including early 2026. To because feels very up to the minute I'm I'm wondering if in the future this is just a form adding thing rather than a content thing. But if we can see sort of maybe charts showing some of these changes over time for that. The for example. The 24% increase in number of residents who haven't use a library card seems really significant. And it immediately made me wonder. But the increases in past years and what are the actual numbers that we're talking about so that we can better understand when there's truly an outlier year and maybe dig
into that a little bit more as a body. If you're able in the future to maybe provide a little bit more of that chart time horizon, that would be really helpful. Chair comes member. Thank you for that. This is a new metric 2025. Is the first time that we've gathered that. But I hear your comments. I think the other thing for us to keep working through as a group as I do, bring a lot of that data to my budget presentation in September. So I would be looking for direction from this group. Do you want to in both places are one of the other and it's easy to do both. If that's helpful. Come summer. Thank you, chair. Just I was gonna let you finish. But I don't want by the previous slide. I think it just would be helpful as well. Like during budget season. I don't know. I don't mind if I have a preference of it has to be like the outputs or the budget
cycle peas. But it's just helpful to know as well by Ward the numbers and just what the numbers look like. So the overview was overall, but I think it would be helpful to know lke the library specifically just in case we are seeing a difference depending on or like an outlier situation to the numbers because of the transfer migraines projects that are happening in those areas are because of the, you know, isolated incident. That's relative to just one library. It might be easier to see. Also, there are a challenge us. I mentioned the digital security incident. I think it's important to keep talking about that. We have recovered from that. But library sits in a very unique position in the city about how public facing
our technology. So. no Internet and Wi-Fi printing. Telephones at most locations are set and have access email. Impacted, too. And I know you heard about some of that during manual circulation. We were doing any check ins on ability to fulfill holds our Internet or Wi-Fi for staff. So really proud how my team came together and the creativity that they brought. I think quite sure. Told you before that we started sending are also few miles by facts because that was the only thing that was urkaine. Ws so popular. We're going to have to do it Even with the computers are king. I so proud of how team and I'm so proud of colleagues in the city about how we came together to
work through each of those steps and and the creativity that my team had to bring in the partnership with otc. And then most of that work fell on our library technology manager, Lisa, much key and our marketing communications in kind of coordinating with that communication with the out to that out to the public, but are successful. Also want to point, think maybe the library. So one of the only places you can still send up So I'm glad that. I mean, I think people still value that very much. But it seemed like it was very critical in some of these situations. I'm glad that we still have that to Saxon library changes things recognize people didn't laugh and also like. If you think about it, though, like so much as online, that when you actually
have something printed out anyway, we hd our managers read it to staff that all that's a totally different experience, right? So one of my colleagues is at Public Library Association conference today, which is meeting in Minneapolis and she just texted me to say that she was at presentation by the Calgary Public Library, Calgary, Canada. They do a really great work. It's one of those Calgary here. They like they're just they're well resource. They do really great work. Such as when our presentation, one of their learnings was do more in turn communication by an ally means incident at all. And so I was like we also learned that. So looking experimenting with that as our capacity permits. And I don't have to tell you that the implication of the impact for my team and our patrons and our whole
community and operation Metro surge we But specifically to stuff your library, fewer residents using my bring spaces. In JANUARY and FEBRUARY than we did in 2024, we are seeing those pick back up now. In MARCH, but there's a lot. There's a lot of impacts for a whole community. And as a leader of the workforce, I can see it now to like how holding that? Tension gripping for JANUARY and FEBRUARY is now coming out and a variety of ways in the workplace. Our staffing remains a challenge. The city's the city had a hiring freeze in quarter 3 quarter 4 of last year and quarter one 2026. That's clearing. But where catching up on our staffing. So you will always hear that from me that it's a balancing act that I think we do pretty well,
certainly perfectly. But within the resources that we have. And the size of our workforce, we're prioritizing. I'm making sure that we're meeting minimum staffing, that staffing guidance and opening the doors for about And then it's spring. And so when it's spring that can bring more challenges to our public safety to public safety. And our library are handling this. Well, but I had the fortune to be in this role for a number of years now. And so I know that it's spring. And it will not be like this forever. But there's a couple hot spots in the city that were working that we're working closely with Sdpd when asked Metro Transit when we see kind of a change in the number of incidents are the particular behaviors at a location? We have the tools at our disposal to that to play safety specialist in a different way
and to follow up with her partner so that they can help Priorities this year. Again, mentioned some of them are Hamlin. Midway Library will reopen just last week. It's gonna be great. Hidden Heights library is under construction. This one feels really good as well around a community libraries making good progress will reopen by the end of the year. We will continue to manage staffing within our reduce budget environment this year in our budget. As you recall. We have a reduced substitute staffing budget and an increased vacancy rate. So we have few fewer tools to ue to cover staffing. But so far we're doing okay that that's something that very mindful of and watching closely. Our library safety strategy that I've talked about many times
here. It's now moving into our restorative practices phase. So the parks and libraries. Have a grant to do this for the public and for staff as well. So we're really excited. This is kind of last phase to implement within our library safety strategy. When really looking forward to larning more about and using with our community members. Last year we had a team put together, a lot of internal work with our staff to identify how we can better support staff wellbeing at work. They did a lot. A lot of conversations of focus groups and surveys and brought forward towards the end of the year. Some recommendations to
myself and the rest of my team. And now we're moving forward into that implementation, really proud of this work. Staff wellbeing is something as you know, very important to all departments in the city, especially public-facing ones. I'm really proud of our staff coming together to put forward some recommendations and proud of how we're going keep trying new things. Right. Based on that feedback from staff. We anti-bias training for all of our staff last year and will move that into full implementation this year. That was created by by protester whose are for good or for equity. Inclusion, anti-racism. So that wasn't a trading that we're able to find anywhere that that our
needs. So we combined a hole into different thanks created so that will be required training. We continue to make the safety infrastructure investments that you've added to the budget in the last few years. Some of those have been somewhat insulated given, for example, the paper monitor's require a pretty intense of partnership with the Office of Technology Communications so needed to take a for a couple of months last year. But now we have a plan that we're moving forward left. And as I could never stopped my team from internal process improvements. If I if I tried and I don't want to try because there's always so much need a, they're both in the library of the city as well. So we'll continue to focus on that park in 2026. And now 2027 and beyond. So as we
think as the budget process. Kick-off gets underway, it's really important to be that you all understand that our library safety strategy that was previous was funded by finance. So we as we comes the end of those funding. I I have a challenge. I have a challenge to that. I need your help with to resource the continuation of those positions through a sustainable funding source a variety sustainable funding source. S tat light, as i just mentioned, our library safety strategy has been tremendously successful and also as a pilot with arpa funds. So now that te pilot is completing now, the question is how do we sustain that? So I want to be really clear. And I think there with
my staff too. R Lavery safety specialist have made a tremendous difference in our library. And I don't feel like I'm in a position to be able to run our libraries without those positions in place. So as can see, the amount here, that's about $650,000 annually. It's no cat. And I realize that. Public services staffing continues. It just continues to be more expensive. To operate library is and all the ways that we've talked about here and other ways to do so. We're using our existing f tall panhandling, midway and we'll use our existing if fte to do the same with Peyton Heights. But we will at minimum more staffing to open Riverview Library. When we get to that point, right? So we did not have in our budget our request for additional fte for
Hamlin. You won't see one for Hayden, but when all 3 of those projects are done, I will have I love the of staff. If spite Curious as to why that is, you can see a little bit more about that same number of libraries. Why do we need more staff and And know you're not saying that special to make sure that you're not saying that Riverview Library last to get done in this tranche. But potentially not open due to aesthetic concern when it's ready. councilmember, so it continues to be more expensive to operate libraries. And there's a couple of list that shows up in staffing. It shows up in the safety specialists, right? So we're moving whatever safety specialist to him. One that isn't a role that we had before. It also continues to weak. It's very
important to us that we honor our minimum staffing arrangements and in the past 5 even 6 years ago. The library is to get away with some stuff we used to be able to have to staff here when actually the minimum really for safety reasons should be 3 or 4. So some of that some of that is through conversations with the union. We really want to make sure that we're staffing a building appropriately so that it can be safe, but also so that people can get have their questions answered as well. And to your question about Riverview, No, I am not saying that. I'm just saying that we are going to continue to experience staffing crunches as we open up other libraries. And you're absolutely right.
We did not build gigantic libraries specifically because we know that we have to staff them with the staff. We have. But the reality of all the other factors in public services over the last year for years means we're going to be really, really tight. Thank you for that transparency. Ad I think nasty surrounding what is necessary moving forward. I think one of the things that has been really going to share every budget cycle when I see a cut to the library's budget. I'm like. Look at this point. Every time. And I think with this particular 2027 and beyond needs assessment, I hope to see that that is kind of incorporated in what is proposed to this body and also
just like what ultimately is adopted. I will share that. Look at the $650,000 number and a lot of the resources that we have it does appear that at times at the end the year, there is an utilize funds and things that we could potentially could pull from inside. Hope that in your conversations just with not only with the administration, but even in the back in with our Office of Financial Services. There's some conversation about what we know what the cost of really doing business is like as we prepare for the budget season, this seems like a really tangible number and something that could be especially if needed addressed for the safety of and the strategy and addressing the staffing needs. And so, you know, I see this as an opportunity where, you know, just initial feedback.
That number to me is not And when we have other opportunities in other places where we are moving resources and we're kind of planning ahead. It's a lot easier to place what is proposed and to try to scramble for it in the back in. And so I hope that there's just some continue planning ahead for us. What we see in all to, you know, your leadership director and kind of what the conversations are going to be like with staff and just. But it should be like proactively and it's more. So I bring, you know, basically doesn't think budget, but always thinks budget and talk about it, the Fed, but looking into it, it's just like. 650,000 ares accommodated at the beginning MAY be found in resources that were under utilized Twenty-twenty 6 or 2025. As always, it easier conversation to have then how do we find it
at the end of the year? The coast just and consummate kept I'm sorry. He said this. But what additional staffing it. And when you need. chair comes member Kim, are you talking about like when we reopen Riverview and cancer is biting. The bullet point for preview, we don't know yet. So it will be really panhandling midway with the staff that we have allocated and see how that goes. He did staff. Did you transfer from Riverview I'm sorry, I didn't hear How many allocated staff are you moving from Riverview to him? And that way? We're not moving anybody from to Hamlin it away from hate and high jump. And yeah, I don't have a number in front of me, but I think that every see this line, one of the things I'm so sorry, the the crux, my question is like. You know, like recognizing it's more expensive. We want
staffing, right? Like is there a number of this kind of like bumbling around in there to be like if moving x amount of staff and then what it looks like to. Thankfully, staff Riverview to the point that you want is there like a minimum and maximum number. You're sort of thinking about more. So for us to kind of hear what that cost because I can kind of see the library safety strategy or warnings are to sustain funny and 6.50, annually right to seeing those staff. What does that look like for Just like across like what what is that in terms of numbers of staff? That's guess I will hold, councilmember, I think yes, I understand. And we were talking about like for people. Right? So just like and again. Not in this budget cycle, but that's that's kind of the number that were taken out about 20 or 15 for ok, sounds
good. I really appreciate that. Another question that I have is not related. You talked about earlier around training anti-bias training for staff. One thing we also talked about like potentially trauma training for management as well. Also like us. I mean, like part of the reason why we have. Public safety staff and trying to bet on this because of some of the things that are friendly. Staff workers come into contact with. And so we do a lot of training for front-line staff to be trauma informed of the way that we're approaching and speaking in like inner engaging. Can you speak a little bit about any additional staff then like maybe management hasn't alike receiving support a staff member. That Lake has been traumatized at Councilmember, thanks for that question. I do also recall that we had that
feedback. That managers maybe weren't always doing that in a way that stop with like. So I just want to be clear that when I talk about frontline staff, I'm also talking about managers, right? So managers and frontline staff. Maybe. Like a library associate or a nasty number are all receiving the same training initially. And then word our management team that meets every month and so are additionally providing other supports what I would say about Travis trauma-informed training as that take that to every single aspect of safety specialists right? Just last. That's continued support. Not even just as it relates to safety, but continued support and training for about how to
continue to work with their staff effectively. So I feel pretty good about what where deliberating, as you well know, not every staff member likes their manager, right? And so what that's part of why we have the monthly Labor Management committee to try to get to the bottom of specifically, right. If you could help me understand where was this happening so that we can find so that we can provide that managers. But I welcome free future conversations about where that MAY not be everything that we could be doing. I really appreciate hearing like that. It is in baked into the training additional one that is considered a passport. So I appreciate you're in. Subject to criminal. So just make sure I'm understanding his. It says that we're going use existing fte to reopen him and Midway do the same with hate heights. Does that mean that?
Over the last, guess. 2 years slick since 2024. With the closure of him and with him on the way being closed and some of these libraries opening and closing that we've had the same number of staff that is okay. The gap. So those staff were redeployed to other locations when Hamlin Montoya was closed. We slightly expanded our Miriam Park Library hours because we were able to with the staff. That's how we'll reduce back to our regular Merriam Park Library hours as some of those staff will go back go for the first time today. Hamlin Midway Library. So our fte has really in the same. but it's it's all a punch. But still Okay. Council PRESIDENT, council member, but think your job to a point for him. Issa precipitation is going to offer some comments, particularly some thoughts,
particularly around the library safety I think it's such a central part of our libraries and really our city when I think about just the impact that they make. They also come from our community when I had a chance to. believe it was the public safety town hall conversation we had at around a library getting a chance to introduced to each of them and hearing their story and many of them taking great pride being from Saint Paul from the community. See this as opportune for them. The gift that I'm just really not really curious, but I guess I would give thought to the conversation around was sustainable funding looks like not solely just for like the library department, but really like a across departmental
safety strategy. I would really like to hear from the Office of neighborhood Safety around how they see our safety staff for the library integrated into the holistic picture mount, we think about community safety employees. I am aware that onus they also have their safety staff. They've, you know, had many rate iterations of safety strategist, whether it was community investors are I believe we have our own in-house safety staff are contracting some community violence intervention organizations like, for example, boots on the ground where no was contracted specifically Around the library. Thinking about funding what I really like to see. You know, hopefully don't
have to play a jigsaw puzzle game of China gets funding from different departments. But what I would like to see particularly is that. This isn't just solely on the shoulders of the library department right to sustain the safety staff. But we really see a integrated approach our police fire. Us and our parks and rec, including Fearless Library, frontline staff to come up with a a funding source in the program so we can sustain those staff. And, you know, wishful thinking, right? We go into the future and we might figured out the finan a problem and we don't have some of those behaviors at our library. Like what are some
other uses? You know, in terms of community safety that we can apply to our libraries basis. burglary calls for Thanks, MADAM Chair. I really appreciate this conversation. And wanted agree with a couple things counts of I member Johnson's point it's it is really helpful to have these conversations in advance of the budget and particular to see things built into the base when it comes to us. That's not fully within your control director. But to all those might be listening to us right now, it's helpful to see things in the base. And I would also add to that the circulation keeping the purchasing power consistent with what has been in previous years. We passed the resolution is likely board a long time ago and we have consistently not seen that be in the bay so than we've had to scramble to find those dollars every year. I would
really like to see that resolution have a little bit more weight in the budget that ends up being proposed and hopefully proposed by the mayor. And then I do. I am grateful for tat honest conversation about the basic cost of doing business. As others have said, I have heard from frontline staff that we have not been. They haven't felt fully staffed. And so hearing that at times we have not been meeting. Minimum staffing will have to know the half. We always meet minimum staffing but that minimum staffing is not. All that the desired staff, it is not so. Yeah. So there's a difference between safes, safe minimum ad then a regular staffing level. Sorry to interrupt. Decided that that's important. I thought I heard something different. Okay. So that we have not been
meeting desired staffing and I think it's important to understand what that desire staffing is sort of to the questions that were being asked across the system. And then I also want to know sort of member, but he was just talking about the the integration of also our library sfety specialists in the staffing model, because I think fair to say that Fte is haven't gone up. Over time. But if we have added a whole bunch of safety specialists, those are also. Those are people who are helping them at concert. Rishel Fte is and a seemingly they be doing some of the things that before were falling solely on our public services, staffing members. So as we're asking for those folks to become. Long-term funded by a city source and also potentially for staffing to increase I just think it's
important to see total numbers needed. How the library safety specialists are playing as well as maybe how other. Department staff on a staff plan. Any other questions can it? Can I respond yet on council PRESIDENT? Thank you for that comments. And I you will its budget season. So you will hear from my staff or if you already have it about staffing. And I would really, really welcome an opportunity to either be in those conversations or provide additional context. Staffing is a challenge. Unquestionably, it is a challenge for every library system in this country. And I believe the best we can with the resources that are available to us the. We don't always agree on that, right. And then that that entirely make sense. But I hope that we can continue to
have productive conversations because I think sometimes the limitations of our budget are not always understood by others as a poor station. If that's my job, right. So just me just sort of flagging that we have the Ft that we have to your point. Sure, just we have the same fda that we had, right. And so when we move folks to open up Hamlin. We have the same Ft that we had. And also it doesn't feel great, right? If you had 5 staff you're going to have 4, right? Because we need to open up the Hamlin midway Libre. So there's a lot of nuance here, but I know we all see and really So I welcome continuing to be in conversation with you individually or in any way that's appropriate. Thank you, I think also be interested understanding. I understand
with the same number of tv what From your perspective, enough interest now that your perspective in staff's perspective, what is the desire number? Because if we're talking about like, you know, maybe one or 2 more staff members really help fill in this gap for this. You know, just he stressed that our staff is feeling and make things easier for everyone. That's that feels very reasonable me. But it's just helpful to know. So when we are making decisions and budget chair Johnson and all of us are working through this. You know, if you get this many of t this is kind of level of service, you get this. Many these are the differences. So we just have kind different options to look at. And I also agree that the safety specialists is very critical in making sure those do have sustainable funding whether its through the library or through some other
citywide. Do just like not even a program. But there's so many departments that provide safety that also have a lot more funding the library or their opportunities where, you know, we can the department, you are her could receive any kind of support are health and that funding because the safety that impacts everyone and everyone benefits from it. And so as much as we can talk about those things early on, understand them and and hopefully get them into the mayor's proposed budget. That's going to ideal for for all of us in this process. Churchill's think search saying Iwuld also encourage You all to ask constituents what they think the additional staffing is that with the aid I have, I have continued to ask that and have not heard like that number. And so I would really benefit from a number. So that we can be and
more poductive conversation. Absolutely. Chair. for Bowie and then scored big change. Joyce, I really appreciate how you just wrapped all that up. And I had another But it was related to what you're speaking t, particularly around the safety specialist. I have a quick question. because this came up, I believe early 2 years ago when we're talking about just some of the labor union contracts and how that has impacts on, you driving are increasing some of the costs when it comes to like salaries, right? And we want to make sure like where we have competitive salaries and we now are really strong pro Labor Council here in Saint Paul. But I'm just curious for every guiding the safety specialists. Are they asking
workers as well and and perfect and then also part of the budget conversations. I don't know where asking is that in terms of cntract negotiations, but it would be helpful. As for having the budget conversations, we know what are some of the changes and what are the budgetary implications? Because I think that kind answers a lot of our questions when we talk about just the cost of doing business and wnt to make sure our wages are competitive in Saint Paul. Councilmember, thank you. The part I can answer is that yes, our library safety specials are part of asked me technical there full time benefited union representative roles as to the status of has been contracted free the human resource us about where that isn't, what budget implications that House. Thank
you. That's where Yeah. I feel like a lot. A couple of the questions or statements to its its. It's also because we are talking to our constituents while talking to you. And I think just kind of coming into the police just what we sharing. I think there's a lot of all right. We we know of that and talking to about the budget conversations that it's not fully in your ability. But we also know that to the millions of viewers that are watching at home that continue to utilize our that we hear from him that we can see right. 23,000 1000 visits that are received per week residents all across the city. You know, you have stepped foot in front of us staff has done in front of us with the library specialist numbers. And I still remember those from last year rates and investment that seems to be working. And I think that that's something to shared. I
would hate to, you know, on the staffing metrics and some of the pieces, especially around just numbers that we're trying to continue to maintain and that we are seeing some of areas of increase, you know, and sustainability over the last few years, including post covid time, right? There's been a lot of positive pieces and nuggets that come from these consecutive presentations. And just so I just want to see foot announcement that like we are talking to you today, but I think that the clear intent of for my my comments, are they going to extend beyond the u of just my overall support for this vision? And because I don't I think I'll be having the same composition of the parks because what I personally right, he to see is my eastside He said rec centers receiving reductions and our staffing really. And I'm sure that rings true for
others. And so towards the end of the year. We do hve that conversation. But what our values are and in the last 2 years, this council has always like what their values of supporting the efforts of the libraries. And so I just, you know, want to continue to see that. I think what we're asking for like that number, it's not because we have a at least it's not because I have a specific number in mind. It's more just lke, what does look like too? What it's for departments and for city staff, too kind of reach for what it looks like to be not in the area scarcity. But does it look like to find us? Not in the space where we feel like we're, you know, really, truly going year to year. Kind
of buyer bootstraps. Love So I think that's just kind my intent is and where I am coming from when it comes to adjust our needs and our 2027 vision is, you know, how do we kinda? Pull into the opportunity that we have, I think with the not only a new administration, but I think just saw a full council, you know, and also just piece where I think you have council members who MAY be. Access to libraries to provide reason a different way and also just continue continue to have this time. Multiple years post covid but a really pivotal point in our history for sure. City for so many different things that I would hate for libraries to get lost in that conversation because they
aren't asking for the starts. So that's just more like doing a lot of innovative things over the last few years as a body in I just don't want to lose that in the library discussion. So that's where my questions are coming from and more. So just like not this is expecting you to fix everything but definitely Mullins of where I'm like. What does it look like? Are levers to operate not of scarcity bow out of what is needed. Thanks Cause resonating. Thank you. Chair jewels I want to say thank you, Dr Harman, your needs assessment presentation here to me, it's been. Just very I'm counting it's doing a lot of level setting for me and a sense I'm doing a lot of reflections on on the things that I heard you share over the many years here, which has been really consistent. And I think that like for me, there's a lot of similarities between what
- you're sharing about like the challenges and sustainable funding and what I'm hearing from other departments. But to me, like was what it is really unique about our library department library department. Overall is that I think you all are in a very different position where, you know, when that when we are in a crises like pandemic, for example, and then also operation which will surge, we're going to see less people coming to our libraries. And that's going to be more cost savings for you all. You're going to be spending less at the department. You all have been very resilient. And we're very lucky that we have the friends too. I don't know where he would as a city really in the in terms of like the state of libraries. If we didn't have
that partnership from them. And so like, you know, what I'm thinking a lot about is that I I believe in the and then next few years I hope this year with the arc council as a port and where we're going to have to make very different decisions when it comes to more so like the systemic like systemic. The system. I would say that that we are currently working in. I think you like right now thinking a lot about the question that the friends they asked us maybe a few a couple of years back when it came to one percent sales tax. How come library expenses aren't a part of it? Even though we know how important our libraries are to our communities. In our library fund balance like every single year and get her budget season. Constantly asking
like, how come you tap into that? Knowing that most of the saving a lot of savings for city does come from our And and at the same time, responding happens in a lot about the departments. But our libraries continue to get the short end of the stick. And so these the top 2 things that are coming to mind to me right now. Tey just really want to share to everybody here because like what I said earlier, I believe that we're going like if you want to see major change in means that it's going to require for us to make major changes in decision-making, too. And I personally feel very ready for that. And I wanted to share that because didn't really have to strategize as as a board to be able to make that happen. think was present Any other question, I think this is the slowest. This is the last and I know we want to
you all have completed my slide for So thank And thank truly, really, for for your partnership. I What your support for libraries, Meehan's I'm ready to partner with you any way that I can. But funding gaps comes up is an acre mentioned library materials, leverage technology, Just got whole pack that New hardware is increased by 20% rate so that the library relies on that technology in the public facing technology in a way that no other city departments. So you know, I entirely believe that that we can get to a place where we're not in a scarcity mindset. But I'm but I'm also aware of the budget challenges ahead of us So I think it's it's important to have these conversations about what the libraries mean to us about the
locations in the hours and the services and the staffing. Because it it won't continue to always feel sustainable. And so I think that's and thank you for understanding that tat's true for libraries across the country. It's true for libraries across the state. I was just a being a regional library directors yesterday. Every single one said there's nothing more to conduct 1st half. And I don't say that to scare anyone, but just to really be like just really be real. All right. Like if our budget continues to go down or have anything left right to offer up Councilmember Johnson. I I so appreciate your your perspective. Like let's see more of that like in the base and also and limited by the tools that are disposal. So I know I know you know that I don't I don't want
to cut like 3 hours. Never wanted to that. And also I don't have a lot of flex in my budget to put anything else on the table. And a cut being asked of me. Thanks for understanding. Yes, that's right. I guess we'll and there for today. I do want to share a couple of things that director mentioned the reprieve event, which was I think day after less library board meeting in and I was Able 10, there are some other council staff there, too, from lots of her word offices. It was a fantastic event. There was a whole dinner which don't think that had before. They're just talking on a desert earlier that really fantastic. It's such a great event and it was featured People magazine. I think now saying that was featured It's going to be featured in Minnesota, Women's
Press. Is that correct? So just again, such a wonderful program that that the library put on every year and with the friends. And so I just wanted to highlight that. And then also I got to tour the him and Midway Library last week, which is under construction. Looks absolutely incredible. If you walked into the old him and then her it's really hard to recognize it. But very, very excited about that project and being able to open that library this year. So if you haven't checked it out yet, I'm sure. Director Hartman with love take you there. Yeah. More announcements but Hamlin way the next few Yeah. Leno. With that, we are