Absolutely. I'll be around. All right. Good evening. I would like to welcome everybody to the Monday, November 12, 2025 city of St. Paul Park Planning Commission meeting. Uh we'll do a call to order. Uh roll call for
attendance. Patrick DS I am present. Mr. McCannernney present. Mr. Hagerty present. Council on Mr. Conrad present. All right we have a quorum. So let's all stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Um, first item on the agenda, approval of the last mean uh, meeting
minutes. I'll make a motion. A second. All right. There's a motion and a second. Uh, all those in favor of approving the uh, meeting minutes from November 12th of 2024, say I. I. All those opposed? There
are none opposed. The motion carries. Our second uh piece of action here tonight is public hearing for the Geneva Meadows Preliminary Plat. And helping us tonight
will be Mr. Sparks. Good evening, honorable members of the planning commission. Um we have before you this evening a preliminary plat application. Um, preliminary plat are
the second step in a development process of a new development. First step being the concept plan where you provide general comment to the developer to tell them what you're going to be expecting of them when they come back if they come back. And then the
second stage is preliminary plat. This is when the entitlements are granted to a project. But then when you approve a preliminary plat, you approve it on a list of conditions such as conformance with the city engineers recommendations, things
of that nature. And then the third stage is final plat where they have to meet all the requirements of the preliminary plat approval and then they can then record the final plat at the end of that process and actually have the
development created. But with the preliminary plat, what we look for is does this project meet the zoning ordinance? Does it meet the subdivision ordinance? And is it consistent with the comprehensive plan? Those are the primary things we look at
uh with with a project like that. So, what we what we have before you is a specific plan for property that's located uh in this location where uh it's just south of where uh
Lincoln goes into 18th Street and then where Ashland and Summit kind of all end in that area. It's south of what we would consider to be 18th Avenue. um in that area. It's on a piece of property that's
undeveloped that's been undeveloped and as has a private road on the uh eastern side of it that is for access to a couple properties in Cottage Grove. And uh Cottage Grove has a dedicated
right ofway on their side of the road which is called Geneva Avenue. However, in St. Paul Park, what they call Geneva, we call Lincoln. And so Lincoln is the street that comes in from the north. And
then what they're proposing to do is continue Lincoln and summit into this property and then place a development around it. So before we like get too deep into what the development is,
uh we need to just kind of understand what we're dealing with in in general. uh the property is guided for a okay in your comprehensive plan that's your guiding document. What we do in the
comprehensive plan is you analyze every undeveloped piece of property. You have a transportation plan, a parks plan, utility plans, and you figure out what these different pockets of undeveloped
property could be developed as to fit within the larger city. And if they are developed, what improvements do you have to do to do it? So when you look at this property, what you're looking at is an
area where it was decided that the only possible development that would work in this area would be what we call low density single family residential, which means that it's for
single family homes between like two to five units per acre maximum. You can't go past that. you need and you need to hit that minimum. That's what we commit to when we do our comprehensive plans. And so based on the transportation
infrastructure in the area, the utility infrastructure in the area, it was deemed that this property would have development rights in that area. And so that if somebody came in and wanted to develop this property, they have the
right to do so provided that they're meeting within those parameters. And so 61 houses on 30 acres is what we have here meets it falls within that range. If anything, it's on the low end of that
range. So this is a low density proposal. And so like our transportation network can handle development of this size. Yes, there will be 61 more houses in the area if
approved, but the network that's in the area can handle that amount of traffic. Like if we were talking about putting like uh four giant apartment complexes here, that number of units, we'd have to change how the roads run in this area to
accommodate it, right? But since we're not, we're talking about 61 houses on 30 acres. This this can um handle that. So because of the fact that it's hitting those density requirements, it means that we can
accommodate this development. The utility infrastructure can handle it. It will require a lift station to connect to the sewer system, but that's about all we have to worry about. So like I was saying, you have to gain approval of
a preliminary plat first. And so the preliminary plat stage, that's where we look at, can we grant this entitlement to this property? Are they meeting zoning? And so what we do at this stage is we look at the development proposal that they have and we're going to
determine if it meets the zoning requirements of the area or if it doesn't. And if it doesn't, then you can require changes to the plan to make it so it does meet zoning. But as it stands, I
mean, people have development rights, like their personal property rights. And as long as you're following the requirements set forth in the comp plan and the zoning, you can effectuate those development rights, your personal property rights, the rights that you
have granted to you on this property. Okay. So, what we have here is um you have to hold a public hearing too to take in public testimony on it where people can comment on it and express to you how they feel about the proposal.
But if it is meeting the comprehensive plan and zoning and the subdivision ordinance standards, you're pretty much compelled to approve the plan. So, this is the development plan as general. You can see this is the
existing area flag the property. Property owner's name shows up there and then this is how they're proposing to develop the property. So when we look at this, there's a couple different things that we look at. These lots that they show
here, do these lots meet zoning requirements? Uh do the streets meet your standards for streets and things like that? So the zoning requirement is when you're low density single family residential in the comp
plan. The zoning district that corresponds with that is the R1 zoning district which is low density single family residential. Kind of almost the same name, right? And that requires lots
to be uh 75 75 ft wide and a minimum 9,000 square feet in area. Every lot has to be that width, that area, and then you have to meet the setbacks. So, what a developer does is they show all the lots on here, and in
those development plans that you see, you see all the measurements on those lots. And you see that they designed the lots to meet those minimum standards. And essentially what they've done is they've created a road network through the site and laid out properties on the
roads and show to us that they meet the minimum zoning standards. So all of these lots are meeting those minimum standards in the zoning ordinance and that's that's what you look for in this. Now the road widths
um we've got in when we talk about roads we talk about them in a couple different ways. We have standards in the subdivision ordinance, but we also have engineering standards. And what we typically do is we use the standards in the subdivision ordinance as a guide, but then when the city engineer says we
need more or we don't need that much, we go with the engineers judgment on that because you don't want to have extra infrastructure that you don't need because you have to maintain it. The taxpayers have to pay to maintain it. So what you try to do is you try to strive
for getting what you need but not more than that, right? And so the city engineers reviewed this layout and has provided some comments to the applicant um on some minor adjustments that would be necessary. And what they can do is
make these adjustments to this plan which would then uh be part of I mean the requirement to make those adjustments would be any in any condition of approval if you were to so choose to approve this. But when we talk
about the road configuration here, one thing to note is there's a in in both Cottage Grove and St. Paul Park's comprehensive plans. We have like future road connections planned out. And what
we do is we show these road corridors in areas where we think they'll go, right? But they can deviate a little bit from that. So a lot of times you'll see a map that shows like where a trail is supposed to be and it'll be show from point A to point B and it just goes in a
straight line. But sometimes when it gets built, it does this and it but it just goes from one spot to the other in the most desired way. What they're showing here is there's a Geneva Avenue corridor. And keep in mind Geneva is
Cottage Grove's name for it. St. Paul Park, we call it Lincoln. So Geneva and Lincoln line up with one another. When it's in Cottage Grove, they call it Geneva. We call it Lincoln. uh after the president, you know, and so
what they're showing here is taking Lincoln at 18th and curving it in to avoid some topography and they come around and then would have it go south out of the property. There's a private road that's
adjacent to the Geneva Avenue rightway. That is a private road used by a couple property owners in Cottage Grove and they're not touching that. They're just leaving that be. But what we are asking is that they plat it or have it in a
public right of way. So in the future if a they want to convert that to a public road they could but that the road corridor would be moved over into this area and Lincoln since it is a collector
and in both comprehensive plans it's talked about as being a trail corridor as well they're showing a trail along Lincoln which would be built in that location and then they're showing a stub Summit Avenue would then connect with
Lincoln and then continue on to the east and shows it stubbing at the private road. There'll be a manhole there which will have utilities available in case the properties to the east and south want to connect to the
utilities. This doesn't mean that Lincoln has to be in this alignment forever. It could and then property to the south connect back over to Geneva. It could also be that Geneva gets built up to Summit and then you take Summit over and then Lincoln out. But then what
they're doing is is at 18th they're showing Lincoln curving back in. Our engineer has some comments on the angle of that curve and that will be worked out if this is deemed acceptable with the with the uh developer. But as it
stands, it generally does work. It has to be moderately adjusted to fit within the right ofway in the manner that we're seeking and to change the angle just slightly. And then they're also taking Summit where Summit just kind of goes into Ashlin now. And they're showing it
extending south. And again, they're showing how they're making these road connections here. Like if you look at that in a closeup on your plans, um they're they're making these connections and redesigning these
intersections to make that work. And then, you know, you look at the um area here. I mean, you see the topography and everything that they do. They have to put a retaining wall in at the at the part that will be privately owned, not owned by the city. and that
will be up by the Geneva right ofway as it stands now. But what we'd anticipate is that the like here's the whole area is that you know the Geneva corridor essentially will still be the Lincoln
corridor I suppose we should call it since we're in St. Paul. Yeah. Why are we calling it the Geneva meadow? Why like that? But um but you know what we would do is at some point it will likely curve back in. But I mean we've
got all these different property owners to the south. There's a lot of things that have to happen that will happen in Cottage Grove that we're not going to be part of. But all we're doing is setting it up. So there'll be right a right of way that's called Geneva and a right of
way that's called Lincoln. Both heading south. Lincoln is the collector road that continues into St. Paul Park and continues up north through the city though and that's the objective here and provided that that objective continues
to be met then this plan can be viewed as being consistent with the comprehensive plan and uh this is the general layout again and we've got so when we're talking about the preliminary plat review here
just some high points just want to drill these points home to you is that we're looking for conformance to the minimum standards of the city and that they also have to meet our engineering standards. The engineer provides a letter just pointing things out to the applicant. If
you were to recommend approval, it would be that they do so by meeting all those things and that they're meeting the minimum lot size. They're meeting our requirements on landscaping and they are showing us where the trees are going to be removed and where they're planting in
the new trees. They have to remove some trees because of the topography and shifting that to to make it a buildable site. Uh there's a trail along Lincoln which is part of our general plan that that collector corridor have a trail in
it. And also with the subdivision there's something called parkland dedication where you can take a portion of a development site and turn it into a park. or when your park plan doesn't show an active park element
in the area, you can take the equivalent amount of the land but in money and then go spend it in your park system elsewhere. And that's what we're recommending that we do with this because there's no this isn't in a park search area. And with this trail coming
up, we're trying to connect this area eventually up to the trails or parks that are to the north of this. And so that's what we would be doing. Um, so as it stands, you know, again, properties have development rights and
when you're fitting within those parameters of development rights, a development can be approved, right? So, you have to to get your development rights, you have to be meeting our comp plan requirements and our zoning requirements. And when you demonstrate
that you are, you pretty much have to consider the the application and decide if is there anything really wrong with this according to our plans and policies. And so again, Geneva is
Lincoln. Lincoln is what we call it. And so what we're doing is the collector corridor is Lincoln and we're shifting it slightly over so that way there where you have the hill, you can have two rows of houses along it and then bring it
down. Geneva, the original location of the Geneva corridor is still available though and a road could be put in it if needed to serve the property to the east. But there's also a road stub to the property to the east. But if that property were to develop, you could go
out the road stub up Geneva and into it at minimum. Geneva could continue down all the way too from that spot. But eventually Lincoln and Geneva are going to connect up with each other and then the mass amount of traffic's going to go into Lincoln and then around and out. Okay? If that if you follow that
concept. Um, so then the utilities will be brought to the property and it will also continue to the property to the south. So either way, no matter what happens, utilities can continue down either
through the Geneva right away or through the Lincoln right ofway to all the other properties in the area. And then so we're not impacting the development rights. We're actually setting up the neighboring properties for development.
and the park dedication would be cash and Lou. So staff recommendation is that you recommend approval to the city council of this plan since the development is meeting your requirements and that the city council
would discuss this in June. We give the developer some time to meet some of the engineering requirements if necessary and then um at that point in time the council could consider the application. And uh again I mentioned it
needs a lift station because of the way that the um you know the sewer is too low and needs help getting up. So we we have that but uh generally speaking the development meets your development
requirements as proposed and uh that's where we stand with that. But if you have any questions for me, I'd be more than honored to answer them. Uh we have received some comments from residents in
the area about uh electricity and some electrical issues in the area. Uh the city administrator tells me that Excel Energy has been pulling permits to upgrade the infrastructure in this area and that's going on right now. And uh so
that is one thing that I noted and um that the traffic in the area, you know, people have concerns about new houses, more traffic, right? people will always have that kind of concern and you kind of empathize with that because, you
know, when you're adding new stuff to the area that adds more people to the to the traffic. But what we're trying to do here is focus the traffic as much as we can on the Lincoln corridor going north. And that's because that road is designed
to handle a higher amount of traffic and lessen it on 18th and Summit to the degree that we can. So with that I can do you want us to hold off on our on the on commission questions after till after the public we
it's up to you guys well I I would rather hear from you guys because maybe all my great ideas aren't so great. Yeah, I know politics. I'd rather hear your position
as a consult than we chime in after. So, generally speaking, as Nate has has spoken and and as we've gotten the letters from this, so generally speaking, this plan sort of ticks all the right boxes, right? Just when you're looking at the ordinance and stuff. So,
we are kind of in a position where we we would be inclined to maybe think a certain way. So that's that's so that's the baseline where we're at. But that doesn't but here's here here's what we're going to do. Okay. So Mike Oh,
hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I'm going to describe the boxes. Hold on. Okay. I'm going to open up the public meeting. Anybody who would like to speak, head on up to the podium, state your name and address, and you can um speak your bind or speak your
peace. Okay. We There you go. Good evening. Steve Trosky with LAR. Uh thanks Nate. Nate and his engineers have given us a lot of thoughtful feedback. There's a bright future in St. Paul Park and we're happy to invest in it and hopefully bring 61 families into
the community. So Nate did a very thorough job explaining it. So again, I'd be happy to stand for any questions after you hear from other folks in the public. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. Paul. Yeah, he's the developer. Yes, developer. Yeah, he's the guy. And you
are? I'm Stuart Bowman. I live at 1748 Lincoln, which is down at the end of Lincoln Avenue. And you're talking about putting high amount of traffic from these homes through Lincoln. And the concern I've got right now is that the
corner at 18th in Lincoln uh is an accident looking for a place to happen because people come down 18th, there's no stop sign or anything like that. They come around the corner and it's a racetrack up Lincoln because it's a straightaway. You add that extra traffic
coming in. I would like to see either uh a three-way stop put there to to get the traffic to slow down and look before they go through. Um there's just been and there's kids kids all over the
street. So to get people to slow down, my suggestion is to get a stop signs, a three-way stop there, unless the 18th is going to go through, which I don't think that's in the plan. But, uh, that extra traffic that's going to come up Lincoln,
I already get enough traffic right now with trucks and everything going back and forth to this additional traffic is a concern of mine. All right. And I happen to know the guy that's on the corner in Cottage Grove there at the very top. Um, he's sitting over there.
He's my son-in-law. Mhm. And so, we've got some concerns how that road. Do you happen to have a picture of what the proposed uh intersection is supposed to look like that we can see how that worked at? We can make it almost any way we want at this point. Okay. Well,
that's that's my concern. I mean, uh it's just right now Lincoln at that end is nobody stops going around the corner. There's no stop sign there. Speed is the issue. Um and my concern is with the extra traffic that we need to address that. Okay. Yeah. I mean that's
something that we can address, right? I mean either either as part of the planning or I don't know if public safety wants to look at that or Yeah, Mr. Chair, they reconfiguration Lincoln and 18th is is going to be reconfigured and the city engineer says it's going to
require new traffic control mechanisms on it. Okay. And so they will it's being redesigned and there will be traffic control measures placed at that intersection. Okay. Well, I moved down on Lincoln in 19
76 where there were no homes across at all. Mhm. And when all those homes went in, traffic was quite a bit different. The other thing I'm concerned about is water. Are you going to be putting in a water tower down there to supply these homes? Are you planning on tapping the
existing water? And how's that going to impact our water pressure? I'm concerned about that. And I'll I'll let somebody else talk about power because I know they've had power issues. And if you're doing looking at upgrading it and that on the Ashlin
side, I'll let you speak for that, buddy. But, uh, I'm concerned about both those two things. Okay. Okay. I'm Walt White. I live at 611 85th. So, I'm right on that house right on the dirt road and where the curve happens right here. So, I've lived there for six
years. Um, I've had my mailbox is up here. I've had my mailbox taken out four times by people spinning out around this turn. Uh my kids can't play in the yard. Cars drive in my yard, peel out, crash into trees. Um they've taken out on this
in this curve. I know you guys have fixed it. I've watched it happen many, many, many times. Um at the end of the road there, you have all these barriers and signs that reflect say turn, dummy. Right. Yeah. Right. People crash through them. I've seen our own buses, city buses, u or school buses, crash through there and then turn around and crash
back through. Um the builders that built the three houses where the pool was down the road in Cottage Grove, they've come around taken down street signs. I've had to call you guys replace the Lincoln street sign numerous times since I've lived there already. And that's just today's traffic. So I am worried about the little inlet there going like this
when there's already a curb and my kids and the other kids that are in the area, my kids are already fearful. We don't even like to have lemonade stands because where they would have those is where I've had so many cars coming into my own driveway, you know, around that turn already that they would take out my
kids. So, I'm already fearful of that stuff. So, I mean, does does the fact that they're that they're planning on putting in traffic control measures, I mean, does that make it any different for you? I mean, do you think about your Yeah, it wouldn't bother me as much knowing that that I I wanted to come to talk to you guys about that in general
anyway. just even a speed bump and a speed bump would solve so many problems in that area just alone right there today. Um, and then also with the plows, that's one other thing I want to bring up. It already sucks when the plows come and leave their deposits, which I know, but
now you're going to add nowhere for them to put those deposits cuz that's generally where they stack up is right on that spot where you want to put the road and in my yard as well. So, I don't know where all that's going to go and how you're going to deal with that because there's nowhere else to put it. So, just something else to think about.
Um, I think that's all I have for now. But, yeah, as long as there was some something safer for the traffic there and especially if you're going to put a trail for people to walk on, it's already a scary zone. So, to add more to that scary zone and make it scarier, it could be worse if we don't think about
it. That's all. So, okay. Thank you. Hi, my name is James Swing. I live on 1764 Summit Avenue. I am the house that is directly facing south off of Summit that will face the new development. Um I saw on um one of the zoomins of the intersection, the three intersection off
of Summit. Is there a way you can pull that up quick? My concern has to deal with that intersection there since it borders my property. Yeah, there we go. Oh, yep. Right there. Because I'm the house there right on the uh east side there of the new uh property there. So, what kind of traffic control measures would be looking at
there with it being a three-way approach intersection? We looking at yield signs, stop signs, or anything at all? Assume that would probably fall into the same category with the other intersection. Then we can dictate what we would want it to be. Okay. We can we can uh have
that designed, but um it'll right now I believe it's intended to be similar to the other one. So the other one the way that this is going to come in, you come in and then they would have to stop. Sure. And then turn. Okay. I think we'd probably do something similar on this
one. But yeah, I'm just concerned about the approaching traffic. What that looks like. Say if there's two cars approach is going to be a little lower. Sure. So, it could be different, but if you want when we can get back to you with more detail on what the plan is for that if
you want, but I I think it would probably be the same. You'd be stopping here, but there isn't as much traffic cuz this doesn't go anywhere really. Sure. Yeah. So, I just be curious kind of just with the construction there, like what that looks like just from a
accessibility and stuff like that. The other question I also have um two more questions in fact like what kind of constructions anticipated within that intersection there. What's that? Like I know they just repaved that area. Like what other kind of construction we looking at with extending that road out there? Like how invasive is going to be?
Oops. Sorry. Yeah. I'm just asking about the invasiveness of like the construction there of that extending of summit. Mr. Chair, if you would be rebuilt. You see this section of road here? That that would be rebuilt. Okay. And then you're also I mean I'm ass like
when they're pulling electrical and they're pulling sewer and they're pulling water. I So I mean I mean there's I mean it's new construction, right? I mean there's they're going to be digging holes. They're going to be digging a lot of them. And I mean it's I don't know how you get around it, right?
I mean it just it's kind of I get that. I'm just kind of curious kind of like what the scope and scale would look like is just kind of my inquiry on that. I think like Nate said, be looking at front of your house. Lincoln's going to Lincoln's going to be the biggest primary road that runs through, right? That's going to where that's going to be
the road that handles most the traffic. That's going to be the road that's got the the trail on it. And I can't remember off the top of my head, but I know there was they showed where the storm water was going to be and the sewer and light. So I think Lincoln is designed to be the main corridor, the main corridor where most of this is
going to happen, which makes sense based off the current straight lay layout of the roads that we have currently in town here. Um, last thing then, is there an easement from the south of 18/summit down here cuz I was looking at this map and it looks like there's a gap between the end of the road here to the
bordering property on the north there. Yeah, there's an easement there. Uh there's a pipeline easement like this area here. See all that stuff in there? It's like a utility e. So that's why there's the I'm familiar with that there. Yeah. So there's a right of way there that allows them to go into that
area cuz they're in the sum this summit right away is there so then they can connect to that. Got it. Okay. That's why I was just wondering if like any of that was being touched south of summit or if just the intersection. Perfect. Thank you. Wish you had a cursor so you could show
in those areas. Summit is my name is George Enigu. I'm at 1683 Ashlin Avenue. Um I kind of grasp the the deal of getting new development. I was part of Stevens Ridge as we spoke prior to the
opening of the meeting. Summit is very busy with a lot of kids playing on that street. So, it's just it's going to be as busy. I can't understand why you would say Summit is not going to be the main artery. People come off uh 70th Avenue and then coming into Summit,
that's a main artery to get to the lower end of the development, wouldn't it? And that's a straightaway that's coming down the hill and there's nothing but kids playing on the street and there's a few families that don't speak
English, you know. So, there's a concern for traffic there. My concern is what's in the boxes you've already you're going to I didn't get to understand what's in these boxes you already agree with. My concern is we already have power
outages. Last night a few times lights flickered and stuff. So I know you're going to have infrastructure for the new development, but it's going to be a hernia for the
existing residents if you don't do and it sounds like you're already talking about building up the uh current infrastructure. What does that entail? So, it's it's Excel Energy's uh burden
to to upgrade that. Um and upgrade what? Uh to upgrade the electric Steven's Wood area, right? Correct. Because it's going to be that's going to then feed into this area. So, they would have to upgrade that that as well.
Okay. Because we have power outages. I mean, it's like California and it's only Mayberry, St. Paul Park. Mhm. But Mayberry's growing up. Mayberry. Yeah. Um, and you said low
zoning housing. What does that mean? I low density. Low density. I filter as low income, right? So it's we're not duplex, no quadplexes, no high, you know, no multi-story buildings, single family, detached homes, like Steven's Ridge. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. There's
no government subsidies where you're going to get 8 to8 or Yeah. And it is going to be an HOA. So, homeowners association which we managing. Yes. And I would expect these homes to be 300 to 450
Mr. 300 to 450. Mr. Pra. Uh probably higher than 300, but we haven't decided the product mix yet. Okay. Yeah. But higher than 300. Okay. So they'll be comparable or higher than existing homes in St. Paul Park. They've
covered it. Uh you know because contract developer were you the developer for Stevens Ridge bro Lair? No. Okay. Because they sold all the top soil and we were like Sandy Hills. We had to buy I had 13 truckloads of black dirt all in
for my low density income there. Well, I mean, part of what they're doing down there is because it's a hill, I mean, they're spending a lot of time and a lot of money on the retaining walls, the storm. I mean, there's a there's a lot
going in to kind of making sure that these properties um you know, keep as much dirt on them as they can, frankly. I mean just to put it simple uh nobody like yeah safety is it and then our we have power outages. So just so
you know I live on Lincoln Avenue I have for 20 years. Okay. I live on the east side. So we're the side that every single time three raindrops fall I don't have power. Last the last power the last storm in August didn't have it for a
week. Yeah. Okay. Um, so I am intimately aware of Lincoln Avenue. Lived on it for 20 years. I'm right near Lincoln and 14th. So I'm just a few blocks up from where we want to build this. Um, I hear the cars roar by. I see the kids in
Lincoln. Everyone's all the kids are walking down Lincoln. They go to Pullman. I I see it every day. So I I My kids walked that street too when they were little. So one of my kids loved the neighborhood so much he bought a house right down the street from us. So yeah, my concern is the safety and the the
infrastructure because it we're already have a problem that's not your problem but I'm voicing our and as this progresses those are the things that we will be ensuring uh get implemented. But I do I do agree though with your comment
regarding that Summit will or might have been the other gentleman. Uh that Summit will likely end up being the larger collector cuz I mean it makes more sense. You know, you're coming off a 61, you're going to get off, you know, right down here and if you live in one of these new homes, you're just going to shoot straight down. You're not going to
jog over going as soon as you finish that last stop sign then you start going down the hill. So I think that's something you know there's just tons of kids the whole plan with public safety. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's something future plan that we will Yeah. We will
look at that. So our taxes going to go up, escro accounts going to go up. What are we going to get out of it? We're going to get we're going to get 60 new families and then 60 new people that are paying property taxes and 60 new people that are going to you know share the burden contributing. They're going
to they're going to shop at our store at the businesses. They're going to go to our parks. They're going to be our friends. They're going to their kids are going to work be in the neighborhood. So, I mean I mean I've been on the planning commission for six, seven years. And you know, and you know, there's always these whispers of we're going to build, we're going to build, we're and here we are. I mean, this is
the first I think real right solid plan that's actually come to this stage that I've seen in my five or six years on the plan commission. So, this is exciting. This is nice. You know, I mean, when my kids were in scouts, the scout master used to tell me, you know, back when I was, you know, the part of Lincoln Avenue where I live was just all hills
and fields. He used to just run around when when he was a kid, snowboard there and but you know what? Someone built my house and they put a street in there and they put traffic people. I'm second face Steven Ridge, so I don't have too much to say, but I was contributing. I was a
taxpayer. I mean, we got families that don't even speak English on some and there's like seven families in a house, bro. You know, that ain't right. I love Chicago for that, you know. Well, here's the deal. That opportunity for my kids.
Everyone's our neighbor. We got to learn to get out with their neighbors. As long as they pay their taxes, mind the law, then I guess they're going to just be our neighbors. And yeah, there's no enforcement with the law, but Yeah. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you.
Other commentary or questions from the public audience? One old man's want to get up. No problem. And make sure you keep coming to the planning commission meetings, the city council meetings to share your opinions on these things. My name is
Larry Crrener and I live at 8591 Geneva Avenue South in Cabbage Grove and I can call it that. I've been there for over 50 years. 30 out here. Um, my property abuts where this is going to be
built. It's still up on the screen. So, the whole area of Geneva Avenue in Cottage Grove runs north and south right next to my property. Okay? And the only
thing that I want you aware of is for the past 20 years, I've talked to Barry Sitlo, uh, Mr. Burbank, and the other city planners have been very, very helpful to me over the years because I've had at
least eight developers come in wanting the 13 acres that I have. And uh I'm really happy for Gordy because I know what he has kind of what he wants as well. We talked a little bit before the meeting, but I'm a little concerned
about what's going to happen with Geneva and Lincoln because both cities all these years have been talking about combining those and running Geneva from Lincoln. So, it's almost a straight shot with that little curve that's at
the edge as my neighbor said that everybody piles into every winter. Took out my mailboxes again this winter, but the utilities as well. I have the gas and electrical utilities going down to my property and they are stubbed there
for future development. I don't know if anybody knows that either, but the plan Cottage Grove has submitted and still is submitting, matter of fact, they told me last week that they're going to send it to you again. Correct. That they
prefer running Geneva Avenue up all the way from 18th down to 95th at minimum. That's where they wanted to go in order to develop the property that's already there, including Mr. Nesvig. So, they
want the whole they want that straight road. Both cities have been working together on this. Cottage Grove declined to work with us on this. Pardon? Cottage Grove declined to work with us. Hold on. As of when? Let's Let's hold on. Let's let Mr. Sparks talk about this because
he knows. We received comments from Cottage Grove, but they were they just wanted what we were doing here, this layout explained to them. And when we did, they said they didn't believe they had any issues with it. So, and and
again, Geneva is there. Yep. If somebody needs to use it, it's available to be used. We're changing how the intersection Lincoln is Geneva. Y So, Lincoln's going in to 18th in this manner. It's going to be the proposal is to rearrange that Geneva where it was
previously configured is still there and available. We're stubbing utilities to this gentleman's property. And if let's say hypothetically, I've seen a couple development plans that have come through on his property. And in those where the
entrance into it, if they needed to run a road in Geneva up to there to go in, they that's available to do that. But they wouldn't have to build it all the way up to 18th anymore. They could end it where he goes into his property and it could go south to wherever it needs to go. Nothing's changing with any of
that. What's changing is the collector road is being shifted over in this location. It's serving the same purpose that it would in the other location. It has it makes no difference where exactly it is. There's still access to his property.
So, can I ask a practical question? So, is it essential to this particular plan how it's designed and and the specifications that Lincoln be curved in? Couldn't you just call that, you know, find a different president? Could you just name that road
after a different president and just let Lincoln sort of naturally stop and have sort of an semi indeterminate ending and like where at some point it Lincoln could directly connect to Geneva or is there something about that being Lincoln
Avenue being a collector road that it that it's critical to this particular development that it be that street and it's that street that curves through? Well, you could theor See, the idea would be that that road, it's going to be expensive to build this road. It's a
bigger, higher volume road. So, we're we're getting it now. We're getting it taken care of. You could theoretically run Geneva all the way up into that location to where those two roads come together. if somebody came up with a
design that worked, but it's going to have to be where the design is done in a very thoughtful, unique way because you're going to have 18th kind of coming in and going up like this and stopping and then you're having Lincoln coming like this. So, it's reorienting that. So, if you
added another road into that, that's not necessarily ideal. So what would be ideal is is if Geneva north of this his property didn't continue anymore. It just goes into his property and then that's it. And it could go south. You
have Summit to where you can drive up from Geneva over to Lincoln and up. I mean there's so many different options with this. But what we're doing here is what we do when you do development, you deal with the big things first. So then the rest of the puzzle pieces can be put
together. Nobody's losing any development rights. Nothing's happening that's causing issues with anything. It's just that what we're doing is is we're reorienting where this road would run in order to provide this north south
corridor in that in that area. And there's availability of another north south corridor just on the other side here which would be Geneva. If somebody needs to use it, it's available for use.
Last year in your planning meeting back in whatever it was, November, I believe I was laying in my hospital bed. It was public on public TV, I believe. Mhm. And my neighbor shot it to me, sent it to me and said, "Hey, you got to be watching
this." And the thing that surprised me most is I had already been given an offer by a developer. They can choose to say which one if they want. I was already given an offer to buy my land and they had a different
plat for the same area for Mr. Nesvik's property putting culverex on it and everything. Everything came into to Geneva Lincoln. So it was one straight shot and it was supposed to go all the
way to 95th. And every developer that has come through, the smaller ones can't afford to do it. They've all exhausted everything. One person did six months worth of research. I'm still talking with him. And the city of Kadach has
told them, we will work with St. Paul Park to get that road put in from 95th all the way up. So, it's a straight shot for everyone. And uh then all of a sudden and then you
were one of uh the members had asked u the Lara representatives and maybe they weren't aware of it but a month earlier they were proposing a whole different plat included the Geneva side of it including Mr. Nesvik's property down
there. So, it's kind of to me it's like you're going to build extra roads hooking to the right or wherever they're off of Lincoln and then in the future it will get developed. I may be dead and gone, but it's going to happen.
And now you're going to run another road almost. You know what I'm saying? You're going to run another road to join in with Lincoln and with 18th and whatever the new Lincoln is. It just doesn't make much sense to me. Well, I mean the the the I mean the
roadways are already there, right? They're not going anywhere, whether they're developed or undeveloped, whether it's a private road. So, I mean, but you folks were told they did not know what Cottage Grove wanted. And that was not accurate because Cottage Grove
has been telling everyone that comes looking at those properties, Mr. as and mine. They've told everyone if you want to build here that's terrific. You're going to have to punch Geneva Avenue through and that's been since 2020. And
there's nothing that can stop that in the future. And and whoever if somebody in the future wants to do it, like Mr. Spark said, they're just going to have to come up with a a design that Yeah, that's and that's fine. I mean, I have no problem with that. But what uh what designation is this road going to get?
Because right now, my neighbor and I are taking care of it. We have been for 20. Well, he's newer to this thing, but my neighbor before the cognitives were also taking care of that road. So, what designation is Lincoln gravel road going
to be? You mean Geneva gravel road? Well, yeah, Geneva. Well, it isn't Geneva. Geneva is a 35 or 40 foot strip right in front of my property. The gravel road is St. Paul Park. Yeah, the gravel road's going to be just left exactly as it is. It's a private road.
When we went through the It's going to be designated as a private road. It's It's going to stay what it is, aren't we? It's what it it's it's your road. So, how are you going to make it look aesthetic? I mean,
well, it's imagine that private road is going to be somebody's backyard. That's right. Yeah. Okay. You're correct. with the new with the new plat. Yeah, the first plat all the houses faced the gravel and and my property.
Yeah. Everything faced the same direction. And we are hoping that as this progresses that Cottage Grove may show additional interest and things may get moved around. Is that fair? Possible. Yeah. So, that is still a
possibility at this phase. Okay. question. Sure. Yeah. I think once once he's done the re the reason I the other thing I wanted to bring up is before that road
was annexed into St. Paul Park and if you want to hear some angry people that used to take care of it, talk to the folks in Great because it was plowed and maintained by them. Wow. And once it got a next, then it turned
private, which is not an issue. I mean, I've been doing it for years, but it just uh a lot of history there. And I know that that's even Dr. Horton was going to run that road. It just kind of seems a little bit extra to get to the
same thing. Well, but you know the Lar and Mr. Nesbake have I mean, it's their property. They own it and they they have the right to to to plan it out and look at it and see what they think is going to work and what's going to fit in our community and and you know that's that's
great that we can you know we can all have a property and we can kind of enjoy you know how we want to use it. Well, thanks for hearing me out. Sure. Thank you. My question I forgot was and it's not the developers it's St. Paul Park, I
would imagine with the addition of 61 homes, what's the future plans for additional fire station, police station, because that's going to bring in some Well, I mean, the city council, you know, they they do a budget every
year, right? You know, what what what's the what does the county give us for protect projected, you know, dollars? You know, what are we going to collect? So, at some point, you're right. So more people means you know what we're collecting. Have you guys discussed it at all? Not this is the planning
commission. We would I mean we that's a that's a kind of a real like tomorrow in the weeds sort of thing. That's we're our job is to say as as Lenar and Mr. Nesvic brought us a plan that looks good that kind of meets the rules and if it does that's great. Now once the city
council gets it and they look at it and they're going to take a a gander like well what does this mean for the rest of us? What does this mean again? infrastructure that's stuff like that that should be brought up that's going to be then that but that's part of the final process that the city council t uh is that after
approval or before approval? Uh that would be after approval cuz you're talking more I know we're 60 houses is going to be like between 120 and 175 people. It's like two 2 point whatever people per house. Yeah, you got you're
not going to need a new fire station and police station over 60 houses. It would have to be quite a bit more than that. And um well, but but the city me right the city's going to be able to budget for what they think is appropriate police and fire coverage whether or not how many full-time or paid or volunteer
firefighters there or how many full-time. Yeah, being Mexican moving to St. Paul Park, there's a lot of white people that get DWIs that have upper income grow. So, yeah, it is a concern, right? Yeah. And and keep in mind, yeah, and the city council will make those
decisions based on public input. So, we are listening to the public. And here's the fantastic thing for all you guys. There's two city council members sitting here listening to all this. And these guys got votes that count. These guys got votes. They're part of the discussion. They're going to bring it to the other three members of the of the
city council. And you're going to have two guys who have sat here and listened and who heard everything. So, this is this is a great evening. this is a great time to get stuff out because we've got these two guys here to listen. So, you know, thank you for the comments. I just want to add one more thing. Sorry, Walter again. Um, 8 corner 61 11185th.
Uh, I'm just curious. My wife actually works at Pullman and they're already full and they don't have enough staff for the school. So, I'm just curious if you know single family homes, they're going to have again, you know, two two, three, four kids is normal. Well, they're going to have to hire five more new bus drivers, right? Cuz cuz some of
those kids that are at the at the edges of cottage of St. Park or in Cottage Grove, they're going to end up going to they're going to they're going to move them around, trust me. Yeah. Okay. I'm just curious about that. Um mostly, I guess. And yeah, kids are small. We can squeeze
them as we go there. It's okay. You got to watch and we built a What's that? E school to teach Spanish emer. Well, they do. Mhm. But you also get to learn Spanish, too, right? Yeah,
absolutely. But that's a schoolboard meeting. You might be at the wrong meeting for those questions. Yeah. And boundaries are constantly changing. I mean, you talk about where this fits with Cottage Grove. I mean, there's no greater example of ever changing populations in their schools than what's
going on in Cottage Grove right now. That's I'm also very well, right? Right. Two schools in the area. So, that's right. Yep. And they are expanding Pine Hill. That is part of the part of the development. Yeah. Any other questions or comments from the gallery
here? Could I ask a question about our representative? Quanup ask the question and if he wants to make sure he's on the record. Yeah. Just curious because I've gotten two different answers for the same question in the last two weeks. I I my understanding was that Lar was
going to make a designation for that gravel road. Not private, but something half public or I don't know how it was phrased, but that's what I was told. Do you know what it is for
sure? I need to know so I know. Keep shoveling gravel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Steve, Trosky, Lenar. Uh, we're going to designate that road however the city and their engineers tell us to as part of the approval process. That's the that's
the short answer. Okay. That's that's at least an answer that I can take back to my neighbor. All right. All right. Mr. chair is that well is there any other well what I was going to say okay so as a part of the public um comment section as part of public hearing just I want to
make a record that um letters were sent out to people in the area who may be affected a couple letters did come back but I'm assuming the fact that only two came back most of the letters did get out to the people who want to be affected there was also uh an email sent
to the city uh looks like it was sent today at 1:45 p.m. from Natasha Draing who lives on Summit Avenue. And again, part of the com part of the process of having a public hearing is you get to show up, you get to talk, but you can also send letters and and these are
things that everybody in the commission has read. They go to the city city planner. They they're read by the city staff. Um it's a it's an email that is sent in opposition of the proposed development. There are a number of
issues that um the tenant raises. Um I'm just going to read the general thing, but this this will become part of the record as a as a part of what goes to the city council, what they're going to review, what they're going to read and kind of consider when they're making their, you
know, further decisions or further commentary about what's going on here. So, one of the concerns was again increased traffic, which is something we've also heard. uh power instability, which again is a comment that's been made as a comment as a Lincoln Avenue uh resident that I would agree with. Um
internet stability. Um I don't know anything about that. Uh increase taxes for construction. I I mean this is a private uh bill. I mean, everything we do, the roads, what I mean there, this is all part of the
public good, right? We're all friends. We're all neighbors. We're all here to try to hopefully work together, enjoy each other's company, and again try to build our community. So, um, sometimes we have to take on certain financial burdens because it's going to bring some people in our community. It's going to bring people here that we want, that we
need that's going to keep St. Paul Park alive and vibrant. So, sometimes there's a cost, but there's also a benefit that maybe we don't see in dollars and cents, but there is a benefit to development. There's a benefit to having new people in our community. So, um, sometimes you just have to pay a
little bit to help our neighbors or our future neighbors. Um, some concerns in the letter about increased noise from tra from traffic and just additional people in the area. Um, concern about light pollution. I guess I didn't look too closely at what was the lighting um,
plan and I didn't see what the the illumination levels were and maybe I missed that, but there's going to be some light. There's there's street lights. I mean, I think street lights are nice. Keeps the kids safe. Keeps the people walking around at night. Fine. The inconvenience of construction. Yes,
there's going to be construction. It's inconvenient, but it's not forever. Uh disruption of wildlife. Um that's a part of development. I I think the planners are trying to minimize, you know, what they're moving in terms of trees. They're putting trees
back in. So, I I think there's a they're acknowledging that, you know, they're trying to address that issue. Um, and there's a comment, lack of quality work from prior construction. I don't know about that. I don't know. I can't speak to the quality of whatever work has been done down there on the
streets, lights, sewers, whatever. But, um, so just as a thought for, you know, future reference for anybody watching this, which is if you can't be here, you still have an opportunity to talk to us. You still have an opportunity to put in a message, get your voice out. It becomes a part of the record. It becomes
something that we as a commission consider. It also becomes something that the city council reads as a part of their packet. So unless there's any other commentary, you made a comment that you know quantity, you know, it's always good to have. I my position it's always quality
rather than quantity because well there's no reason why quality and quantity are exclusive, right? We could we could have both. Most people felt the same way when we built even bridge first grade and if and and there was some planning commission 30 years ago that or in some city council that put in a vote
that helped build the house that I live in, right? And but for them and and but for all the the things that people had to put up with 30 years ago when my house was built, I couldn't be here. I wouldn't live here. I couldn't be on this commission. Um I wouldn't have the friends and neighbors that I have. So, I mean, we're all going to make some
sacrifices. We're all going to put up with some inconvenience. But the goal is that 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now, we're going to have a lot of new neighbors and they're going to be good people and maybe somebody will be sitting on a commission like this, the planning commission or the parks commission and they're going to be contributing. So I I
I be complaining about the development of the next property. Yeah. The next the next go round, right? But like I said, I I you know, our our job isn't to make all these sort of value judgments. Our job is have h has a has
the plan that's been brought to us meet certain minimum requisites. Is it is it sort of moving us in the direction where we think our city should be? And frankly, I don't know how you say it isn't meeting the bare minimum standards. So, um we just have to have
some faith that it's going to be welldesigned, well implemented, and that, you know, people are going to come and and it's going to be the neighbors that we like having. So, Hopefully when they put the road in, they'll do it right because when they put Steven's Bridge in, if you come drive by by 1748
Lincoln and see what my driveway looks like. Well, cars can't go up. I have to have an SUV walking down my driveway because my side of the road so low. That's literally I mean it's literally and there's a half a dozen houses on the
east side of Lincoln. I said you said east side of Lincoln. You I'm talking down in 17 and 18. Uh, look at the drivers. This is crazy what they did. Well, here's the deal. They've submitted a plan. It's got the graded. I mean, it it's all the things are there. So, the
city engineer has the opportunity to look at it. And again, until the city engineer approves it, there's no shovels hitting the dirt, right? Okay. So, we have to have some reasonable amount of faith that Mr. Sparks and the city engineers are going to be able to look at and say, "This is going to work. It's something that's feasible. It's
something that people are going to want to spend that kind of money on." And I just want you to know that every time we get a good rain, we have Lake. Well, then maybe that's something we need to bring the the city engineer or some public works
right. It's like it's like hard to get through it. End up small. I think it was 90 when we had the straight line wind come in from uh summit and all the water came down. It was up. So part of the problem is that we're having a
conversation but nobody can hear it. So So here's the deal. If somebody wants to have a you know maybe talk about something different you're welcome to come up but if there's no other like commentary we're going to close the public meeting and then we'll just finish up with the commission. So I'm going to see no other public comments and having nothing else to read. I'm
going to close the public meeting. Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. Um, you there was question about uh what the appearance of the units would look like and we have this is uh on the screen here we're showing some pictures of houses that
will be similar to what are going into the development. Right. Uh they have not designed exact units for this development. These are ones that they have in a similar development in a neighboring community. You can see they have a range of different types of
houses. Um, some will they'll have different types like lookout, walk out, slab on grade, basement, whatever. And so now I I I know, you know, we got a lot of issues with, you know, bedrock. So, do we know generally
speaking, is there going to be is it going to be all slab on grade? Is it going to be a mix between is it going to be multi levels? I mean, do we have any preliminary ideas about kind of what the mix is going to be or not down there? Right. Okay. Come on.
But these should have basements. They can have Steve Trosky. AR. At this point in the process, we don't have specific homes picked out, but our engineer has informed us that about 50% will need to be slab on grade and the other 50% will
be a lookout. Um, now that percentage may change as we learn more about the site, but yeah. And I saw you guys had did core pick. I mean, I I saw you guys were down, you know, your part of your plan was, hey, we went down to look to see what was going on, right? Yeah.
these these communities and projects that Lenar and other folks build, they're they're significant investments in financial um financial ways, other ways. So, we don't take the opportunity to build a
community lightly. We don't take it lightly anywhere uh including St. Paul Park. So, we do geotechnical evaluations. We met with the pipeline. We meet with the utility providers. We call them small utilities. internet,
electric, things like that. So, we're not going to go and put in multi-million dollar infrastructure on a site that we haven't been assured is going to work, right? Uh and and move in 60 families into the community. Yep.
Okay. So, when you said slab it, so well, hold on. Well, okay. So, well, okay. A slab on grade is means it's just a it's a concrete pad. Utilities come with a concrete pad. There's no basement. there's no sub. So,
right. Uh and again, there's there's places, you know, throughout St. Paul Park where there there just there's no other option to build other than slab on grain, right? Or um Okay. So, this is the part of the commission meeting. So, this is where anybody in the commission uh we have an opportunity to make a
comment, raise a concern, ask a question. Mr. Conrad, you have any thoughts or anything you want to share or questions for Mr. Sparks? Well, as a resident that lives on the exact opposite end of Lincoln/Geneva/ Century, I know there's concerns about
how Geneva and Lincoln coexist. But part of the angst when that happens is getting which city to be responsible for whatever problems come in the future, whether it be wear out or damage or holes or whatever. And you get
a lot of this and Having two separate routes currently, whether they stay separate or not, might not be a bad thing, but it's I think it's something that would all have to be assessed at the point that Cottage Road decided to develop through what the best
solution is. So, I would maybe not you don't may not have to be as um concerned about that being separate right now as you might think it is because it is a constant problem where I live. other commission thoughts,
comments. I don't really have any questions or only comment I have is I I think I'm in support of it. I think, you know, it's a good thing overall. I'm just happy so many people showed up. So, thank you very much for showing up
cuz the the commission and the council uh we have to make decisions based on what we think. But when we have the public here, it makes it a whole lot easier for us to to figure out the best decision for St. Paul Park and the citizens. So, thank you very much for
coming. Okay. So, public meeting is public hearing has been closed. If there's no further comments or questions, I guess I would be open to entertaining a motion on what we would like to do with uh the recommendation from the planning commission.
I'll make a motion to recommend we move forward. Okay. And second, um, let's be more specific. move forward with the caveat that the LAR and and the the property owner
would comply with all the recommendations of the city engineer public works department and the the the letter of memorandum where that lists all the sort of additional issues that need to be addressed. Correct. Correct.
So, we've got a motion and a second to move forward to move this plan forward with all additional comments and and requests for recommendation to the city council. So, take a vote. So, all those in favor of
moving forward and giving a positive recommendation say I. I. Any opposed? Hearing none, that motion passes. Okay. Uh, next on the agenda would be new business. Unless anybody has any new business or or I guess this would also
be a time for any commentary or questions in general. Any commissioners or liaison have anything they'd like to say? I just think it's great to see the development opportunity. Um, somebody else mentioned earlier, I mean that was a place we called it the pond. We slid
down there as kids and uh it's a great place and I watched uh the Stevens edition get done used to race snowmobiles down there with my uncle and them when there was nothing and so it's u I think it's a great opportunity. Um when I ran for council, some people said
with without really understanding where the city was, but they would blind say we need more housing or we need this, we need more tax base and we don't have a lot of opportunity or vacant land or things like that and this is a great opportunity to um to make some you know financial
contributions to the happenings of the city. So I applaud the progress. Thank you. Any other comments or statement? Well, um, no one unfinished business, so I guess I'd be seeking a motion for adjournment. I'll make a motion and
second. All those in favor say I. I. This hearing is adjourned.