Good evening everybody. Let's open the meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with
liberty and justice for all. All right. Good evening. Welcome to the city of Saint Paul Park, Minnesota City Council meeting March 16th, 2026. This is an open meeting and it is being recorded by Tru
Lens Community Media. You can view these city meetings live and replayed on cable channel seven. 99 meetings are also streamed live and archived on the City of Saint Paul Parks YouTube channel. First item on the agenda is approval of the minutes of the March 2nd, 2026 Council meeting and waive the
reading of the same. So moved. Second. I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye aye aye. Motion carries five zero. All right. Item number two. Items from the public. Do we have anybody that wishes. Anything?
No. Seeing nothing for items from the public. We will move on to item number three to consent agenda. Um, first thing on the consent agenda, I would like to make a motion, um, to pull item C and move that to new business.
I'll second. I have a motion and a second to pull item C and move it to new business. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye aye. Motion carries five zero. All right. On the consent agenda this evening, we're going to
pay the bills. Um, we need to approve some 2025 budget adjustments. Uh, resolution 1773, reducing the speed limit to 25 miles an hour on third Street. Uh, special event
permit for Heritage Days. Uh, car show. Approve. Well, number four, underground tank and installation of a new aboveground tank. Approve. An AI pilot program which requires no cost. Authorized
participation for city to participate in the Partners in Energy program. And it appears that is it for the consent agenda. This evening. Mr. Mayor. Yes. Council member Swanson. I move that we approve tonight's consent agenda.
I second. I have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda as listed. Any further discussion? All right. All those in favor say aye. Aye aye. Opposed? Motion carries five zero. All
right. On the new business. Before we get into the presentation from rum River, let's take up item number C from the consent agenda. Um, I pulled this because this is a, uh, actually a good thing for the city that I just wanted the
council to be able to understand and highlight, um, item number C is, uh, approving reallocation of funds from an old project from the Stevens Ridge project. And, Hugo, if you could just go ahead. and give a brief update on what it
is and maybe, um, if anybody had any questions we could ask Don if she if anybody had questions for Don on, um, what's going on with that? We could do that. But I think this is kind of a good thing for the city. And I wanted everybody to understand the amount of money
we have coming back and the availability we will have with it. So. Hugo. Okay, mayor, Council. Thank you. Um, so in brief summary, um, this involves a project from a couple three years ago that came in about $1.1 million
under budget. And so, um, some of those monies were they came from, um, enterprise funds, uh, sewer water, etc.. So to make sure our books are accurate moving forward, um, staff would like to re deposit those excess
monies or monies that we save because the project came in less than what was anticipated. Um, back to the accounts that they came from. Uh, I think the project was around $2 million, a smidge over. Don would have the the details and was bid out a little over 3 million. So
there's there's the difference in, uh, saving. So kudos that, um, staff at the time, um, did a good job with making sure things came in under budget. Um, and it's just realigning where the money should go. So our books balance, and we have
a, you know, other needs for that money. But that's that's the gist of it. All right. Council have any questions I understand that we have some potential areas we could use this money of course, but. Correct. Um well. We discuss those later on.
Maybe. Uh, mayor and council, there are some items that staff have identified would be higher priority, or maybe even the highest priority, but those would be coming back to you in a future council action. Once we had true, uh, estimation of what costs would be through a
proposal, etc., but there's some pond cleanout that needs to be done. Um, and some other items specific to the stormwater situation that we haven't addressed in a number of years. All right. Any questions for. Mister Mayor? A question for the city administrator, if I
may, um, of that 1.1 million, how much of it is current dollars and how much of it is future collected assessments? Council Member Swenson, that is an excellent question, and I'm going to punt to my able bodied finance director to elucidate further.
Or should I ask it later? It's all current, but we're also going to be re collecting assessments in the future with regards to that project.. Build that bounce back up and collect those assessments up until 2038. Okay.
All right. Thank you. All right. Any further discussion or questions? All right. Well then I'll make a motion to move item number C.. I'll second. I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion or questions? All those in favor
say aye. Aye. Motion carries five zero. All right. Good job. Everybody. All right. On to our presentation from rum River. If you guys want to go ahead and
get started. Okay. Excellent. Good evening. Thank you, Mayor and Council. I really appreciate the opportunity this evening. I'm Andy Schrader, the chief building official with rum River consultants. And Carrie Levitsky is with me as
well, our senior advisor for government relations. It's great to be back with you again. It's been since November, actually, where we receive council direction and approval of the proposal. Last tonight, we're going to be looking at some of the hard work that our team, along with administrator McPhee and McPhee, and that team has been
working on as well, to kind of frame it, to start it out with. It would be helpful to see how we got here this evening. Your council packets include a staff report that's very detailed in the background in history and the interest of time. We're going to highlight a few of the key dates. And then we'll jump into how this new ordinance is
going to really translate into action. We understand there's a lot of content. First and foremost, we'll be reviewing much of this at a very high level. So please feel free to pause me or Carrie at any time if you have any additional questions or clarification. There is no question that is really too basic. If you need
clarification, chances are someone else would be looking for that as well. As you can see from the timeline above, we became your designated building official in the beginning of 2023. Processing permits and performing inspections on construction projects, and along the way, we've been discussing other services that
have been available and that we're under development. So a neighborhood services program is the city's way of caring for the built environment at every stage. And part of that is administration
of the Minnesota State Building code for new construction, remodeling, and then, of course, certain repairs as well structured and consistent rental licensing program is also part of the Neighborhood Services program, and also the
your local property maintenance code as well. And that gives the City of Saint Paul Park a clear set of minimum standards for existing properties. So taken together, it reads as a program focused on the overall
condition, safety and long term stability of neighborhoods. So this framing is strongly supported by the ordinance itself, which we have renamed to chapter 18 Neighborhood Services.
The primary function of the Minnesota State Building Code is to set uniform, statewide standards for how buildings are constructed, altered, repaired, and maintained from a code administrative standpoint, issues affecting the structural integrity, fire protection, health, sanitation, and safety
are addressed consistently across Minnesota. Inspectors are really another set of eyes that can help educate and inform as to the current safety standards, as well as methods of construction. These all fall under Minnesota State Statute 326 B that outlines the roles and responsibilities of not
only the contractors, but also the code officials, as both professionals are duly licensed and supported by the Minnesota State. Excuse me, Department of Labor and Industry. The state building code is really made up of a number of different components. And as you can see from this slide, they drop in
pretty quickly. But there's a lot of layers. There's a lot of different sections under this, what we call the umbrella of the Minnesota State Building code. And not only requires the technical knowledge of the built environment, but also requires an understanding of all the other state laws and local ordinances that assist with this administration.
Currently, we're on a six year adoption cycle. In the end of 2026, maybe the beginning of next year, we're going to be due for another round or updated building codes. The question is often asked, do I need a permit? Now? I know this
verbiage is really detailed and I don't want to read it for you, but I do highly encourage you to read it on your own because it is very specific. As far as the administration of the building code and when a permit is required. Basically the short answer is I just try to be funny about things is
when in doubt, fill it out. There's no charge for filling out a building permit application. And what we want to avoid is, well, somebody at the office told me or I heard, we don't want to deal. We want to make sure that things are well documented. So anytime that question comes up of do I need a permit for this or that, we do ask them to engage the
permit process that gives us an understanding of the scope of the project and whether a permit is required or not. If it is required, we'll walk them through that process. If a permit is not required, we document it accordingly, and we find that to be very helpful to have a good paper trail, especially when you start talking about refinancing
insurance needs things of that nature to make sure, again, that the property records are complete as far as permitting and through different projects. Thank you. Now, sometimes people would
come up to the front counter, even though we operate in a digital world where most things are, a lot of things are done online. It's not uncommon for us to get phone calls or even people that stop in and ask those very same questions. So the first thing to do is really to have full, a full understanding of what their project would entail. It's not
uncommon for permits, whether it be land use, electrical, building or plumbing to be lumped together. Do I need a permit? Well, what kind of work are you doing? Again, we need to back up and fully. We need to ask the right questions in order to fully understand what their project is going to entail, to make sure that we can steer them in the right
direction. So part of that is, again, as Andy had said, identifying what the person is really asking many times that that question begins with, do I even need a permit? What do I need a permit for? But often the real
question is much broader than that. Is the work allowed? What type of permit applies? Our plans required? What inspections are needed? So a large part of our role is helping residents, contractors, property owners and other
applicants understand where their project fits in. Within that process. The goal is to provide guidance before the work begins and a strong permit program is not just about issuing permits, it's also about helping people and
helping them understand the requirements. Early on in that process so they can avoid surprises later. And when someone reaches out with permit questions, we will help explain whether the permit is required. What information needs to be
submitted? What fees apply, and of course, what the next steps will be. And that third bullet point there, as far as we do, we also help connect the question to the right process. So not every permit question is strictly a building code
question. Sometimes the issue involves, you know, other site conditions or another type of approval process such as zoning, engineering, public works, fire. And so one of the benefits of a coordinated neighborhood services approach
is that it gives the applicant a clearer path to the right answer, instead of leaving them to figure it out on their own. Um, again, early communication helps avoid bigger problems later. So when residents and
contractors ask questions upfront, it reduces that risk of unpermitted work. Project delays. When inspections don't meet the code requirements, and additional costs, which of course creates frustration for everybody involved. Permit
questions are their good thing, and they give us a chance to help the project plan accordingly and correctly. So our role at Rome River is to be a good resource, be a resource, not just a regulator. Um, it's
a good opportunity to reinforce our program in Saint Paul Parks program. And it's also about customer service. And so we're here to provide direction, explain the process, help applicants understand what is needed so that work can move
forward in compliance of the Minnesota State Building Code. One last point on that, if I might, is people's homes and their businesses is their largest financial and emotional investment next to their kids and next to their family. And it's really hard to return either. So I like to say that just a little bit
sarcastically, but it is, you know, our homes and businesses are our biggest financial and emotional investment. We want to be cognizant of that. So I wanted to break down a little bit between the difference of a designated and the delegated. So this is in front of us all day every day. So I just want to make sure that we put it in
terms that everybody can understand is. So when a jurisdiction adopts the state building code, that then allows them the ability to administer that code, except fees, plan inspections, complete reports, things of that nature. So every city, when they adopt the state building code, they choose one
person to be what's called the designated building official. Each city can only have one, and that person is in charge of the overall governance, if you will, of the state building code. That's different than the delegated. So now by default, anything that's state funded or state licensed schools,
hospitals that by default goes to the Minnesota State Department of Labor and Industry for building code administration. If one has the proper training certifications and continuing education, they can get that delegation from the state. So run River, we have the delegation agreement
and a number of cities where we do the administration for hospitals and schools, which normally defaults right back to the state. So that's what the delegation is now, the delegation for building is very similar to the delegation for plumbing. Anything that's new commercial or over five
plumbing fixtures by default goes to the state Department of Labor and Industry for their governance and oversight. However, if you have the certification, you go through their testing program, you can get the delegation for plumbing, which is which is awesome. It's fantastic in the sense that the state is very
behind. They're behind in their plan reviews. They're up to 16 weeks now as far as the plan review for new plumbing projects or or again, those remodels that involve over five fixtures. We have a master plumber on staff. We have the plumbing delegation agreement as well in a number of cities,
and we've reduced that down to a matter of days or weeks, where the state has taken a number of months. So that's the big difference between designated and delegated is the sense that each city has to have a designated building official, but the delegation is above and beyond that. I know
that was way off script, but I cover everything. You're good. Okay. And as we talked about with the plumbing, one of the major amendments that is part of the article two in chapter 18 for the Minnesota State Building Code is aside from bringing the
code up to current standards, state statutes, and all of those necessary components, we also incorporated the language for the plumbing delegation. And that again allows Saint Paul Park to receive that delegation, the application and
all that information is in your council packet. And so if, um, if that is or if and when that is approved, we would then go through the process of getting that delegation from the state. Um, this is current as of February 24th, and I've
highlighted on there the jurisdictions that we currently have delegation with the state of Minnesota for plumbing, um, plan review. And I believe we have 17 now. Um, and if we do apply, uh, Saint Paul Park would make that 18. And I'll just say again, it's such a
great service. The fees are the same that the state, um, we like to align that fee schedule to be the same, but it's a better service because it's a turnaround. It turns around faster. And, um, you know, we hear a lot in the field. Um, as far as from plumbing
contractors of when are you getting the delegation here? Because the state is so far behind. And also remember, that allows for local revenue sharing as well for the state delegation on building as well as the delegation on plumbing. If the state does it, the state keeps all of those resources and all of those funds. Whereas when we have it as a local
understanding, the city also shares in that revenue as well. So there's another reason to do that and more local control as well. Yeah, that's a great lead into our next slide here. And so now that we've covered the basics of the Minnesota State Building code, also known as the MSNBC,
um, let's talk for a second about how it's funded. And one of the largest concerns that we hear since this regulation is, is a state mandate is how is it funded? Well, honestly, it's simpler than you would think.
Administration of the Minnesota State Building Code is funded through user fees, meaning the cost of permits, plan review, inspections and related code administration services is paid by those using the service. So the chapter 42 fee schedule
that's also included in your packet this evening, um, is is part of of that process. And so this approach is intended to be budget neutral. Um, so the cost of development related services is not shifted to the broader
tax base. Um, in other words, improvements, um, pay for the oversight that is required rather than placing that burden on the general taxpayers. It's a budget neutral. So then one
of the questions that's also commonly asked when in when ordinances, um, an ordinance revisions are brought before the governing body is how do these programs get funded. And again, um, run River does not have any involvement in the
exchange of money. Um, trust us, auditors prefer it that way. They want everything filtering and finance director coming through the city, and then we build the city. Um, so as this slide shows, the applicant would apply for that
permit through baseline, which is our our proprietary software. And, um, our permit technician reviews that online application. The permits ready once the permit is ready to be issued. They pay for that permit through baseline. And
um, and then, um, we bill Saint Paul Park according to our, our agreement. And then Saint Paul Park retains a percentage of that fee. That's how it's been going the last three years. So there isn't any change. I just wanted to make sure that the current council was aware of
how that process works. So next let's talk a little bit about I'm going to pause if you have any questions related to article. Um, article two before we move on to rental and
property maintenance okay. To go. Okay. So we're going to talk a little bit about rental licensing and property maintenance. And that is part of again, the repeal and replace ordinance that's in your packet. And that is
article four and five. Um, we've been run River consultants has been assisting with Saint Paul Parks rental licensing program since January 1st of 2023. Um, so this isn't, again, isn't anything new as far as for us to administer
that we, the city council did approve back in April for us to do full administration. So that has been approved by the city council. And now we are getting through that work in order to get those codes up to, um, current standards. So why apply
the same rental licensing structure to all rental, all rental housing when a jurisdiction regulates rental housing, it is generally better to apply the program consistently across all rental dwellings. Whether the property is a single family home or a
multifamily building. If one type of rental housing is subject to more frequent licensing or inspection requirements than another, then the city can create the appearance that similar rental uses are being treated differently. Without a clear
health, safety, or operational reason. A more uniform structure helps support fairness, consistency, and defense ability in the administration of the rental licensing program. Federal and
Minnesota Fair housing laws broadly prohibit discrimination in housing and HUD recognizes that even if a housing requirement appears neutral, concerns can arise when it treats similar properties
differently without an actual clear public purpose. Um, this is just a quick snapshot of some numbers for you. Um, at the beginning of this project,
we performed a complete analysis on the housing stock in the city, and this slide demonstrates the approximate numbers based on this analysis, given the number of properties and housing units we anticipate performing about 190 initial
inspections per year, which translate to approximately three full weeks of inspections. Um, and that's throughout each of those cycles. Uh, of course, that does not include any inspections, and I did I did thought I thought that it would
be important to note that that first rate inspection is included in the cost of their license, which the city Council did approve back in April as well. Um, so that's good. So approximately 1800, uh, residential properties are in the city of Saint Paul Park and
approximately 232 of those are rental properties. That represents about 21% of your housing stock. And, um, again, splitting that into two, two rental cycles. So we anticipate doing about 190 inspections
initially per year. So this is a high level glance at the core changes in the amended rental licensing ordinance. It creates a more uniformed rental licensing structure, clarifies administration and enforcement,
requires regular inspections of all rental housing, strengthens the accountability for property maintenance, and improves tools for addressing noncompliance, and adds tenant protections. Overall, we've modernized the
program and IT and it better aligns with the city's broader neighborhood um, services. Uh, related to health, safety and stability goals. We're going to dive in a little bit deeper. I
should have done the check marks. Um, we'll dive in a little bit deeper here on each one of those, um, components. So that first one, a more direct alignment with neighbor with a neighborhood services
approach. Overall, the amended ordinance shifts the program away from being only a rental licensing rental license process towards a broader, neighborhood focused, framework centered on. I should have grabbed my reading glasses. Um,
accountability, consistency, and ongoing property maintenance. The second bullet point, the clear purpose and program intent. The amended ordinance as a much stronger statement of purpose. It explains that the program is not just about licensing, but
about protecting health and safety, preventing substandard conditions, supporting neighborhood stability, preserving property values, and maintaining minimum housing standards throughout the city. The current ordinance treats single family rentals
differently from multifamily rentals, especially as it relates to the license term and inspection frequency. The amended ordinance applies the licensing requirement more uniformly to all rental dwellings and rental units, which supports consistency,
fairness, and effective administration. The amended ordinance more clearly authorizes the city to post a property to prevent occupancy when there is no license. When a license has been denied, revoked or not renewed, or when
a unit is unfit for occupancy. It also places direct responsibility on the owner to ensure the property is not occupied. After posting. Ultimately, the property owner is responsible for what transpires on their property. It is also important to
recognize that rental rental properties are a business. Um, it operates similar to a business license and whether that's accidental or intentional. The amended
ordinance streamlines the grounds for enforcement and provides a more direct framework for notices, hearings, tenant notifications, waiting periods for applications, and reinstatement fees compared to the current ordinance, it's more straightforward and gives the
city better defined enforcement tools. The amended language also expands and clarifies definitions so that the ordinance better reflects the different ways that rental housing exists today. It more clearly defines applicants and license licensees, property
managers, rental units, residential buildings, and other key terms, which helps reduce ambiguity in administration and enforcement. It also adopts the most recent publication of the International Property Maintenance Code by reference, which that is important when
the housing inspector is performing the onsite inspections. The current code does not, um, identify which international property maintenance code PMC um, the city has adopted. That does become problematic as the
international co-counsel authors Minnesota State Building Code, international property maintenance code, plumbing, all of those, and they're on a three year cycle. Even though the state adopts the building code every six years, there is a new property maintenance code that comes out
every three. And so it's important that that is identified in your ordinance because it does change through the code cycles. If I might do is that is more discretionary as well as the property maintenance code. Some jurisdictions adopt it, some don't. And they have the freedom to choose. And we're
going to get into a little bit of that flexibility too, at the fire code in just a moment. But the property maintenance code is not a mandated chapter. Correct. It's in what's called an optional chapter. So if the city decides to adopt a property maintenance code, they can pick which version they choose to go with. That's why there's some variance in there. So I want.
To point out. In the packet we've identified all of the amendments to that. So the height of grass and all of those different what you call your code official. So in the international property maintenance code and that first
section, um, there's a lot of, um, revisions within that ordinance. And that's very important because those sections then could ultimately change. So in the current code, in the current, that section of the city code of chapter 18, it
refers to sections that no longer are there or have been moved. So it's very important that this gets updated. If I can double click on that for just a moment. So the Minnesota State Building Code is adopted by reference. And the the amendments are made by at the state level. So the state has the ability to amend
the model code into what they deem necessary. For example, stair rise and run the stair geometry that comes, excuse me, that comes from the International Code Council, but the state amends that into what they think would be best fitting for the state of Minnesota when it comes to the property maintenance code, you
decide. The city decides what amendments are more applicable and more fitting for the city. So that's the difference between a model code that the state adopts, and then this optional chapter. Absolutely. And so, um, getting
on to. The stronger administrative structure again, um, it gives that framework by identifying the code officials, um, role more clearly, spelling out who can apply for a license, what information must be provided when updates need
to be reported and when fees are due. It is more structured and easier to follow than the current code language. The amended ordinance expressly allows inspections in off years, where, uh, when a formal concern is filed, what the
process of that looks like, the inspection, the allocation of the inspection fees depending on whether violations are found. And this gives the city a more direct and transparent way to respond to those concerns. One another big operational change in this
amendment is that it does require a license rental properties to be inspected every two years prior to issuance or renewal. Um, the current ordinance has a little bit different of structure, including less frequent approach for single family rentals. So it does um, again,
add more of that consistency. Um, it does also include a no retaliation provision, which is a meaningful policy, in addition, that protects tenants from punitive action for making good faith reports to city or law enforcement or your
contracted services. And again, property condition standards are simplified. Um, you know, long list of maintenance standards within the rental section itself is what is currently happening. So there's a lot of repetitiveness going on between, um, zoning code,
property maintenance code and rental. So by um, reorganizing that so that it's all in one place, it takes that cleaner approach that we feel is necessary. So we've got a couple of situations for, um, rental licensing. Um, and so
one of the questions that we hear a lot of is, what if my landlord is not responding to my concerns? So we need to start with the nature of their of what their concern actually is and get to the bottom of that. What exactly is the issue? We need to understand whether
the concern involves a possible health, safety, maintenance or code compliance issue, or whether it's primarily a private civil dispute between the tenant and the landlord. Minnesota Minnesota's attorney general explains that landlords must keep rental property. Um,
fit to live in, in good repair and in compliance with applicable health and housing codes, and also notes that tenants should notify the landlord in writing when repairs are needed. So going over that tenant concern process and what when we hear
these, how do we approach those and what that process looks like is we want we want um, we want to know whether the tenant has already communicated with the landlord. That's first and foremost, um, before this, before, you know, run River, the city would get involved. We do our best to confirm that
they've already raised the issue with their with their landlord in writing and allowed a reasonable opportunity for them to respond. That helps show the concern was first directed to the responsible party and gives the landlord an opportunity to correct the
problem voluntarily. Again, the Attorney General Handbook specifically recommends written notice from the tenant when repair issues arise. We do provide a link to that tenant and landlord's roles and responsibilities in that rental
licensing application process. If the concern does not appear to involve a clear code violation, then our role is limited. In this situation, we would generally direct the tenant to the Attorney general's. Um, that document, that publication that I would
refer to for guidance on those types of remedies. Um, not every dispute is something that the city can regulate through a rental licensing program. We always encourage that written communication to the landlord. First, we ask for a copy of
that. Can you forward us what you had said? So again, we're vetting through that and helping that tenant get to the core of what that issue is. Um, we will reach out directly then to the landlord. And, you know, are you aware of this issue? What have you done to mitigate it and have that conversation?
Because without communication, um, there, you know, there seems to be just a big gap as far as what all can transpire. So if there is if there if it appears that there could be an actual code concern, we definitely get out there and we inspect that property. Um, if
file violations are found, the owner is responsible. If no violations are found, um, the complaint process, the complainant, um, complaint process still has accountability. And then we would, um, that cost for that inspection then does get to
that tenant. And all of that is provided in writing prior to the inspection, um, being scheduled outside of the cycle. So problems don't just arise with landlords, right? Um, we
also here and our and the rental licensing program is a good resource for property owners. We have gotten a lot of my tenant is destroying my property. What can I do about it. And so again we start by understanding the exact concern
and identifying whether the issue is private leased matter or is it a possible code violation. And again, did you provide that information in writing? If you did, can we get a copy of that? Um, so this is
then the outlines that owner concern process. Um, is there evidence of actual damage or conditions that rise to the level of property, maintenance, housing or safety violation? Um, we confirm again, owner
has, um, communicated clearly in writing if the information provided suggests that the tenant may be causing property damage or creating conditions that violates the city's code, we will inspect and document any conditions that do have
those violations. And our role again is documenting, documenting conditions we don't resolve. The civil tenancy dispute. Um, I will say that the record tends to be very helpful if a property owner is
going through an eviction process, um, they will take that documentation coming from the city, um, that states what those violations are and when they go to court, um, the judge isn't just kicking that down can down the road. They actually have documentation from the code official stating
what the violations and what the conditions of the property is, and I'll just I do need to give a notation here that it's fair to explain that in Minnesota, removing a tenant, it is um, it can be a lengthy process, but we don't. We
meeting around river, the city, we don't evict the tenant for the owner. We don't get involved with that. That's the Minnesota Judicial branches job. Um, but again, we provide that, um, correction order. And oftentimes it does speed that
up. Um, just wanted to give a quick highlight as far as the steps of the next steps for the rental licensing. And that would be, um, if and when that rental license, the ordinance is approved, um, upon
publication, uh, rum River will assemble the final property list. Um, we will sort that out by cycle. Mailings will go out identifying the new timeline and process, and then, um, we'll go through, uh, update all of our checklists, um,
forms and then official letters could potentially be sent out. Then, um, 1st of June. And this is just an example of what, um, that letter can look like. No different than building as far as how it's how is it funded
budget neutral. No different than um, the building. No different. The permits and the permitting process. They apply for that permit, we review it. License is ready to paid. And then, of course, we invoice Saint Paul Park for, um, our
portion of that. And Saint Paul Park retains a percentage based on the agreement.. That was. A lot. Yeah. Thank you for your patience. I did two. ordinances and one. Yeah, you did two. articles and one. And any questions for. Carrie?
Okay. Thank you. So now I'm starting to touch a little bit on the Minnesota state fire code. So Carrie wears a lot of different hats and I do as well some days. But the main hats that I wear is, as the building code official and the fire code official. The building code official, we touched on a little bit already is the designated and delegated things
of that nature running the department. The Minnesota State Fire Code, and the role of the fire code official is something that I'm getting better and better understanding of. The need for more, uh, better connections between the building department and the fire department. That's something that has been remiss,
if I might, in the last number of years, at least in the 20 some years I've been in this, uh, looking at it as a hand off of a baton is when something is built or remodeled, you have a certificate of occupancy. And as soon as that certificate of occupancy is is finished, that baton gets handed off to the
fire department. They're the ones that respond. If somebody gets hurt, God forbid there's a fire or something of that nature. But the the need here is really better administration of the fire code as it comes to fire prevention and making sure that the environments are safe as they can be, and they're prepared for when the fire code
official or when the first responders go back out, whether that be police or fire policy. The first preventers. Thank you for that. So that's one drum that's been beat lately. Is that the building inspectors are the first preventers, and the police and fire are the first responders. So I like that. Thank you. Gary. Um, it's also a little
bit different in the sense that there's more discretion in how it's administered. The Minnesota State Fire Code and the permits that we're going to get into here in just a moment. But all of these are required by state law through the Minnesota State Fire Marshal's Office. So these are things that are simply just not as actively administered or enforced, if you will. Then
perhaps they could be or should be. Kerry's famous for saying that a lot of times when we come into cities, it's not uncommon for people to work in silos. Public works, engineering, land use planning, fire building that we're all concerned and worried about. Uh, with with what's right in
front of us. We work in silos. What we're doing now in this part of this initiative is to build bridges between those silos, because we really do rely on each other to a great extent. So in collaboration with the Saint Paul Park Fire Department and city Administration, we're working
to establish a comprehensive permit and inspection process. So there's two main permits when it comes to fire code. It's the construction permit and the operational permit again, both, both of which are identified in the Minnesota State Fire code. So a construction permit is when you build something when you
install a fire sprinkler or a fire alarm. There's a couple of other examples there. High piled storage, stationary batteries as well as temporary stages and canopies. That's a construction permit. When you actually construct something. And we're familiar, we're accustomed to doing that. Even here in Saint Paul Park. The
missing piece is the operational permit. It's the annual inspections. Or every other year when those inspections are not being done for testing and maintenance of the fire sprinkler system or the fire alarm. Um, the ongoing use mobile food trucks, welding operations, that's another one.
So if you have a business, a manufacturing business, and you have welding operations, there's a building permit there. We'll go through and we'll check all of those boxes. Does it need a fire sprinkler system? Does it need a fire alarm? And then largely the building official is done, but that button needs to be handed
off to the fire department and the fire code official in what's called an operational permit. Now, those permits can be issued over a set period of time, whether it be every year or every other year. That's where we work in collaboration to better understand the potential hazard of that business. What are those
inspection needs? And that's really where we're going to get down into the into the nitty gritty here, to use a technical term, as far as understanding the city a little bit better through the year, Fire Chief. Outline. It's hard to see.
It's a little oh it is. Yeah. We should. So right up here. Thank you. So extracting the potential properties, that's the first thing that we do, Carrie. And the the folks from baseline, they extracted data from the county's website. As far as the non-residential properties. Now, what we need to do is comb
through those to see which ones fall within other parameters of requiring a fire operational permit. And there are 50. There are 50 different instances that would be applicable if a business needed an operational permit. So what we're going to do now is go through there and extract those businesses out
about which businesses would receive this letter and that letter. There's also a copy of that here, basically introducing the program, introducing myself, and that we're working collaboratively with the city and asking for a meeting, quite frankly. So at that point, we'll work with the fire chief, and we'll arrange a
time that we can go out to the business to understand their business a little bit better. We can walk around the inside, the outside to see again if their operation does fall within the parameters. That requires an operational permit at that time, when that the determination is made, that's
when we will document that they don't need an operational permit or will help them along with that process, which they will get an operational permit. And then that actually dove dovetails back into the baseline program so that everything is available, everything is online. So it's that same that same database,
if you will. Now part of this process is going to be establishing two pieces of information here. The one on the left is a Maltese cross that's called a bis or building information sign. That's something that the firefighters and the administration will have access to. This will be
built through this program. So this is actually one for I think it's 300 Pullman. It's an apartment building. So on the top there five B. That's the type of construction. And through the nomenclature of the building code and fire code, we know what that means. That means combustible construction.
And it's not protected with fire resistive elements. That's five b on the right side there. Is it sprinkler or not? Sprinkler. In this case that building does not have a fire sprinkler system. So it says ness on the bottom there. That's an R-2. That means it's an apartment building to the
left l h. That means it's a low hazard. But then in the middle there is for tactical considerations. If there's anything special that the fire department needs and wants to know, for example, on site welding or in Anoka, we have some cryogenic fluids, uh, being utilized at event and
right next to federal, which makes gunpowder. That's a really important thing to have separated as far as those uses. So in the center there again are tactical considerations that the first responders are going to want to know what's on the other side of that door when when they respond to an emergency on the right. What
that is is a simple overview. It's a site plan or a pre plan, if you will. And what we're trying to do there is identify the high five in the first five and the first five minutes of arriving on scene. What are the first responders really looking for? The key box. How do you get into that. And that's a whole nother conversation that
we'll get into as well. But the key box how do you get in. There's a master key box. Uh, where are the nearest fire hydrants where the utility is located. Where is the shut off for the gas and the electrical, as well as where are the fire lanes if those are established. So this is going to be part of this program as well in
baseline. So the first responders can see on route or doing any pre-plan so that they can have one of these for each property identified. Any questions on this piece? This in my estimation, is probably the biggest gap out there. I always look for gaps in
overlaps. This is a big gap. We're also working on the same program in Robbinsdale and Oslo, and we're having the same experience there is that these are things that are just people just haven't filled in those gaps yet. How's paid for. Thank you. Revenue neutral again. So this program is paid
for by the user. So it's the businesses themselves through an operational permit. And now again we will work closely with the fire department to determine if it's a relatively low hazard. And they have their portable fire extinguishers and everything's in line. We can stretch that inspection out to two years or whatever we deem
appropriate, if you will, for that particular property. If, however, there's a number of of items that need to be addressed, we might decide to come out there every year until those issues are addressed and they're back where they need to be. That was a lot. I almost
feel like I should apologize, but that is a lot of information. I really want to take the time to to pause and see if there's any questions or thoughts or input on anything that we've said. Um, I have a question. These operational permits for the fire code update are these
places that are currently permitted, not permitted at all. Um, is it something that would be completely new? It is complete. Businesses and rentals. Are we once again sticking our fingers into our small business pockets?
It is a new program. It is. It is required. Here's the ironic part. It is a required by state law, construction permits and operational permits are required by state law. That doesn't mean that they're effectively administered. It just means that it's one thing that we haven't connected with
yet. There are cities that administer construction and operational permits. There are cities that don't. Um, mayor council, I just wanted to share a couple of a couple of staff thoughts as
this program was, was coming together. Um, so staff have been part of the committee since September to plan and help create what what this looks like specific to Saint Paul Park, not just another cut and paste, cookie cutter type of type of operation. Um, we
dubbed it Neighborhood Services because we want to, um, be collaborative and partnering with, with the community more of an educational component. Uh, we thought code enforcement was a little bit heavy handed, although there is certainly an element of code enforcement to that. But really, the driving focus was partnering with the
community and collaboration and working together to create safe rental spaces, safe businesses. Um, uh, resources for landlords and tenants. ET cetera. Um, uh, really ultimately, our goal was what can we do to improve the quality of life for the
residents in town and coming up with a program like this or updating the program like this? We felt it was very important that that we do that as kind of a driving force. And I think by and large, I think, I think we've arrived at that. Um, just a couple of notes. The city attorney is reviewing the
volume of information that that you see, it is consistent with, um, other communities that our city attorney also represents. So I'm not anticipating any surprises, but we have not had the official everything is is good to go. So we do have time to review and ask questions.
And I did get a copy of the presentation earlier today. I will send that to Council for review. Um, it'll be pretty much what you saw here. So if you had any questions for additional follow up. But um, that's kind of the backstory on this. And I believe this is an
extension of the direction that council gave staff and my predecessor before I got here. Um, and this is kind of the culmination of how things are looking. And so I think we're in alignment with that. I think we're consistent, although very flexible, to modify, uh, as a
council may. So, uh, so choose or desire. So I just want to share that. Thank you questions. Councilmember Conrad. I have a question as far as inspections, do inspections happen to, um, properties that
are identified now or is it as there's renewals or situations that arise? I mean, I don't know how current anything is in town. So where do you start? Where do you. Create? Which type of inspections are you referring to? Building permits are reactive in nature. So when somebody builds or
remodels or has an addition, there is a building permit process involved with that. Rental is on a cycle. As Carrie identified now of the fire, construction permits are much like building in that if somebody is going to remodel a space or add on to a building and there's a fire resistant
element to it. Fire. Excuse me, fire sprinkler or fire alarm? That's the construction permit. The piece that's missing is the ongoing operational permit of that of that. Business. Which is more cyclical, similar to. Um, rental rental. Thank you for that. So a fire operational permit acts very
much like a rental, where it's an ongoing for a period of time that, you know, whereas a construction permit is when you build it, you inspect it, you you write the final inspection record or certificate of occupancy. You're largely done. Whereas the operational permit, much like rental, is an ongoing
operating, if you will, of that of that property. I guess what I'm what I'm wondering, um, in a in a larger scope to reflect on is, uh, it's ironic that you had those apartment buildings there on Pullman in third, but is that something that each building
would be inspected to see where they stand currently, or do you wait for an incident or pioneer village where is largely full of seniors? Um, any of those types. Of thank you for that structure. So this would be proactive in the sense that we're going out and what we find in a lot of these instances are portable fire
extinguishers that are missing or not recharged, that are discharged, um, exits, combustible construction. So this is, in a sense, being more, more proactive than reactive to go out to make sure that the buildings, again, are safe so that the first responders and the in the residence, the occupants are
protected in that manner. Okay. Great question. Do you have a question? I have a quick question. I heard the term budget neutral a couple of times, and I really appreciate that. Um, the question is on that when it comes to the fee structure, is
that set by your organization or is that set in concert with city staff and then approved by resolution by the council? Great. Great question. Um, as a governing body, the city council, you are the authority that sets the fee schedule. So that's part of that is
ordinance. Um. 786 chapter 42 fees. Um, by retooling the fees, reorganizing them in a way that makes sense. Um, that's part of that. Chapter 42. Ultimately, you are the
governing body that sets those fees are agreement between us and Saint Paul Park has it so that it's a revenue sharing. As far as so if if a roofing permit is $125 and we receive a certain percentage of that, and
then Saint Paul Parks keeps a certain percentage of that. So it's I want to be very careful with the term revenue generating, because that's not the purpose of it. It's that, again, that development pays for itself. The improvements, the cost of the service that's required by the state. State
law is, um, pays for. Itself in much like just that example. The fire is the same way. There will be some roles and responsibilities for city staff as well as our staff as far as generating that list, doing the inspections, going back on the re inspections, yes. So that's a shared
responsibility as well. Okay. That's a good question on that too, because if the basic fee structure is required to to produce for rum River, their portion is there constraints upon rum River outside of the contracts for the pricing for those fees?
Can you ask that again. A different way. I guess I don't understand. The question. Yeah, I think I think I understand Councilmember. And um, so again, there's not constraints by state law. Um, there are certain portions of, uh, section 42 that's before
you, um, that models again. After that, the state similar to the plumbing plan review plumbing inspections for nonresidential. And that again is we, um, we want to stay in line with what other jurisdictions and the state do.
We don't want to be up here, and we don't want to be down here. We the way we do our fees is what is the lowest that the fee can be for doing, for providing the service that's
required. And that's how we set our fees there. This fee model, um, it it's in I think almost all of our jurisdictions, the model is and most of the fees, um, are aligned. A lot of them.
It's not this. If you were to look at other jurisdictions surrounding, you're going to see very similar fees would be my guess. Okay. Thank you. That did explain. But I'm just going to just to verify though, it is constrained by contract. No it. Is not. It's so pricing can
change within the contract. Yeah we do have in the agreement minimum. So for instance if um I don't have it in front of me, it's hypothetical. If our minimum is $50 for something or $100 for something or 500 or whatever
that is, if you set your fees below. So essentially the percentage sharing, um, that's approved in the agreement, right? You can set your fees lower than that. But then, then it would end up going into the
general budget to make up that gap. Right. Or we can again, there's so there's there's many different ways we can talk about that. There's the different percentage sharing and things of that nature as well. But we do we aim to keep our fees as low as possible.
Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank I got one of my questions answered there. Um. Our recommended fee is excuse me, I needed to. State. All that up, but I do have one more question. And then if anybody else has any.
Otherwise, we'll move on. Um, the refinery, when we talk fire code, this operational and inspections, that's kind of a whole nother monster, isn't it? It is. Do you want to speak to that chief? Yeah. Are we? Is this something
new we're going to be getting into with them or we're going in? I mean, you were talking welding. You were timing. There's. That's going on constantly. Are we going to be talking multiple permits or are we going to have to have a whole new conversation with our
partners at Marathon? Right now, between federal and state. But they build on that and that's what they on their needs. Right. Now. So one of the one. I'd
love to be just more or less information. Okay. Yeah. And I'm not as familiar with that organization as you are. This is targeted for the businesses outside of that. Uh, for the the operations, again, the the manufacturing, the apartments, the assemblies. You know, we have a large
concentration of people and you have a higher hazard that would be more identified accordingly. Again, assemblies, uh, churches, bars and restaurants and things of that nature, as well as apartment buildings and manufacturing, those are the big. So again, there are 55
zero of those types of operations. That would be, uh, that would fall under that, uh, category of an operational permit. But in Saint Paul Park, not all 50 would apply. Of course, some of those like cryogenic fluids and things of that nature, are such a specialty. You know, we have
the benefit of experiencing that in Anoka. But outside of that, I'm not familiar with too many organizations or manufacturing that use such type, that type of, of, of, uh, processes, if you will. Okay. Then I have another question. Sure. You said apply.
Where would apply? You just use the word apply. As far as enforcing fire code, we're not necessarily. Are you talking about a new application or the current businesses. So it would be a new application. So say we come out to a manufacturing facility and
they're on site welding. They have acetylene. They have a bottled, uh oxygen tanks and things of that nature that would fall under the confines or under the parameters of requiring an operational permit. What we would do is we identify that property in the spreadsheet, we would generate a letter for them, and it's
customized. It's not dear Property owner or anything like that. We want to find out who we're sending this communication to. So that letter is customized to that owner and it's mailed out to them. And then they're going to be requested. You can see from that model that they would contact us. I think our our target is like two weeks. Please get back to us within
two weeks so we can arrange a meeting at your property. We'll coordinate schedules. We'll go out there to meet with that property owner or their designee to walk the inside and the outside, and then we'll be able to identify does their operation actually meet one of those 50 criteria or does it
not? If it doesn't, then we'll be able to write them off. Or to say you your business does not require this process. Thank you very much for your time. If it does, then we'll be able to categorize them with that information sign as well. We'll be able to go through and determine the type of construction. Is it sprinkler?
Uh, the occupancy classification. Are there special considerations? Again with compressed gases and oxygen cylinders and things of that nature so that Maltese cross would be filled out during this process. So at that time they would be asked, informed that they would need to apply for an operational
permit, much like a rental license. So they would apply through baseline. They would apply for that operational permit. And then we would again build the, uh, build the Maltese cross, the building information sign, as well as the on site site plan for pre plan. And we would get them into the cycle if there's any
corrections that needed to be made, we would be able to identify those. And depending on the severity we would identify how long they have to make those corrections. And sometimes if it's a more immediate need, we might be more a little bit more proactive, come back in a matter of a couple of weeks. If there's a lot of combustible
storage under a fuel canopy or something like that, that we would want to be a little bit more proactive. On. All right. The goal is to work with. Absolutely the public. Right. Working with them, not being going back to that, um,
where we want to be, uh, a resource, not a regulator. And on that sense, too, is that we find this with a program like this as well as property owners, too. We want to take the time to explain the why behind the what. I get that from Simon Sinek. If you've ever read or listened to Simon at all, he's really big about that is because we wanted to
let people know not only what the regulations are, but why they are there. Why does a handrail have to be returned? Why does your acetylene tanks need to be supported in the corner? Why do you need exit signs with the emergency lamps? Um, there's a lot of reasoning behind this. And obviously we're we're dedicated to this. But I like to take the time to
explain the why. Right? No, I'm just, you know, I'm a small business owner, and everybody knows that, um, but. As am. I, the, um, it just seems like the mandates an overreach sometimes. And the double dipping, because I know a lot
of us already get inspected several times by our insurance companies, by our other inspectors, by, you know what I mean? And now. I do. And if I can speak to that, I'm a small business owner, too. And we recently purchased a property in Saint Francis. So now we have a commercial building. The fire inspector comes through and he pushes the button to make sure
the lamps work. He looks at our at our portable fire extinguishers and once that is done, once you have that established, it's a lot easier to maintain going forward because like me, even me as a building official, I'm worried about or I'm working on my business, not necessarily paying attention to the building. So to have that other
set of eyes is really valuable. Right now, I'm just getting ready for the questions. Oh, absolutely. And if you have any questions on that regard, please feel free to send them my way as well. All right. Any further questions for Andy or Carrie?
Google. Um, briefly. Uh, mayor Council, I just want to clarify or reiterate that our fire staff have a large role, should they be so inclined to participate in aspects of the fire inspection code? Absolutely. We're going to rely on a mutual relationship as well. As.
Correct building that bridge. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor and Council. Thank you guys. Wonderful evening. And thank you for. Coming and all the great information. All right. Um, at
this time, I'm gonna make a motion to take ordinance 784, resolution 1768 1772, ordinance 785. Rosas 1770, ordinance 786, and resolution 1771 as a slate and table.
Them okay. Second. All right. I have a motion. And a second. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye, aye. Motion carries five zero. All right. Item number five. Reports from the council. Council member, Haggerty public
works commission. Yeah. So we had our Public Works Commission meeting on March 3rd. Uh, we did not have a quorum, so we weren't able to make any major decisions. But we did have discussions. Uh, a lot of which was already in the
city council meetings. So we're good there. Uh, our next meeting is on June 2nd. Uh, so we need two more members, at least one more member. But we'd like to get two more members, uh, for public work. So please
come down and apply. Thank you. Thank you. Council member. Haggerty. Council member. Swanson. Public safety. Thank you. Mayor. Our meeting was Thursday, March 5th. And, uh, during the meeting, they accepted, uh, the the applications of two new, uh,
chair member or. Excuse me, uh, council or commission members. I'll get to it. Um, and also welcomed the new chief of police. Uh, who gave a nice presentation of, uh, his history and, uh, what he was
looking for for the for the department. And also, uh, Chief Kramer was, uh, gave a nice presentation. Also. Our next meeting is set for June 4th at. I believe it's 6:00 on Thursday. Here at City Hall.
Here at City Hall. Thank you all. Thanks. All right. Thank you. Council member. Swenson. Council member. Conrad. Planning. Our next meeting is scheduled for April 13th at 7 p.m.. I, um, I won't be able to attend. I will be out of town.
All right, we'll enjoy. Thank you. Council member. Conrad. Council member Fred Henderson. Parks and rec. Um. Our meeting is this Thursday here at City Hall at 6:00. Um, we are still looking for crafters for May 9th for our garden event. And all the crafters get a free table, and
we'll have bouncy house and kids crafts, so I hope everybody can come. Thank you. Council member Whitbread. Henningsen. Um, tonight I would just like to add and ask the people out in TV land that are watching this and anybody paying attention.
Um, we do have our annual volunteer appreciation dinner coming up and which we're going to try to transform into appreciating our employees. Also. Um, we do have something on the website, I believe. Yes. Hugo, about applications to
submit for potential volunteers of the year. Mayor. That is correct. And I believe something was posted to the Facebook. So if you know anybody that's doing good in the community and you want to nominate them for volunteer of the year, um, please get that into us as soon as possible so they can be
considered and maybe even get a nice free meal out of it. Um, and that's all I have this evening. Anybody have anything else? Council members? I would like to say thank you to public works. Tony, Tony Bryan and company. You guys really cleaned up. The town
really looks great. People could get no worries. I, I travel to different cities and you guys did a good job. Thank you. Yep. The last snow event I. I will add to that I had people who came from out of town that
I ran into on Broadway yesterday and they said we just came through several cities and I will say your city was one of the easiest and the best looking roads we hit. So good. Job. All right. Nothing further
before this council. This
meeting is adjourned.