I call this meeting of the city commission of St. Pete Beach to order. It is 6:00 p.m. on uh May 26, 2026. >> Would you please stand for the pledge of allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. City clerk, will you please do a roll
call? >> Commissioner Marriott >> here. >> Vice Mayor Robinson here. Commissioner Cy >> here. >> Commissioner Maldonado >> here. and Mayor Tate >> here. >> We have a quorum. >> Thank you very much. Uh
approval of the agenda. Do we have any uh amendments or changes to the agenda as it is? >> Mayor and commission, I'd like to propose to remove two items. The first one this evening is 4D as we're working with uh PSTA to bring forward a joint presentation on this
item at a future meeting. And then the second item is 5B. After receiving significant feedback from the planning commission at last week's meeting, staff would like a little more time to prepare to bring you a presentation that includes their
feedback as well. >> Can I uh I had some ideas on that as well. Is that something I can submit afterwards to >> Yes, ma'am. >> staff. >> Great. Thank you. >> Okay. Any other proposed changes by the
rest of the commission or city attorney? I guess >> no. >> I'd like to um add an item for discussion. >> Okay. >> Um and that would be shark fishing on the beaches noted. Okay. Others before I
Okay. Um, do I have a motion to uh to approve the amended agenda uh excluding specifically items 4 D and 5B and adding uh an item for discussion for shark fishing.
>> I move to approve the agenda as amended. >> I second. >> City clerk, please. >> Commissioner Marriott, >> yes. >> Vice Mayor Robinson, >> yes. >> Commissioner Cy, >> yes. >> Commissioner Maldonado, >> yes. and Mayor Tate. >> Yes. >> The motion carries.
>> Thank you. All right. Going back to the agenda. Uh looks like we have uh two presentations, please. Believe we got Director Mills coming to do our first given his uh posture and walking
directly towards the Thank you. >> Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, commissioners. Uh for the record, Camden Mills, public services director. Uh it's my pleasure this evening to introduce Ecosphere Restoration Institute so they can give a presentation on living
shorelines. Um they've been working on a project the past few years in the Donses neighborhood um and looking at some living shoreline natural adaptation solutions um for our shorelines in that area. Um this project was supported by the city. Uh we were co-licants with a
grant through the Tampa Bay Estuary Program and we also helped support um with some topographic survey for this project. Um it falls in line with our strategic initiative for resilience. Um and the end goal of this project really from from the city's perspective is is a
published report on living shorelines. Um that can be information that our our residents and businesses can can read and get educated on. but also um we're we're producing template designs um that people that want to add up their or adapt their shorelines and install these
living shorelines, they can use these type of designs as references, which should um help save on some of those upfront costs and hiring an engineer and designer um for for your shoreline moving forward. Um but without anything further, I go um and introduce Mr. Tom Reese with Ecosphere Restoration
Institute. Good evening, Mr. >> Thank you for this time to talk about um what we talking about. It's living shorelines or living seaw walls. So, I know we all know what a natural shoreline is, but I I really wanted to show this because it's important to
understand. If you look at this picture on the left, all is upended to dry land and on the right, it's really deep water, but all the action is happening in between, right? That's where the juvenile fish are. That's where everything is life is. Um, but when we take that out and put this in, all we
have left is a blend in deep water. We lost all that habitat value. And and that's that's a shame because there's you a lot of places we would need seaw walls. In some places we really were overdesigned. And so if we're going to live in a high energy place like this
photo here and have your house really close to that water, you will need a seaw wall, right? So there's not like seaw walls are not supposed to be here. They just need to be put in the right place. This seam seaw wall, if you follow it inland, it goes in these back coes where there is no energy where you
don't have to have a solid wall like that. And that was just put in so the developer can put an extra row of houses in. So the problem is these things don't last forever, right? They ultimately fail and they're very expensive. They can be as much as $2,000 a linear foot.
depends what kind of tiebacks and conflicts and pools and stuff like that. So, it's very expensive thing and they don't have a long shelf life. So, if they're in this shape, what can we do to fix them? And it's not just a Florida problem, right? There are parts around
the country that have 80% of all their shoreline hardened. Um, Broward County is one of those places and in this region here where over 50% hardened shoreline. Um, and if you take a look at this aerial here, it's hard to believe,
but in here is 22 miles of seaw wall. Just if you start following around all those edges, it adds up. And that's a lot of hardened surfaces, and there's no room to take those out, right? I mean, there's just tight canals and and small lots. So, what can we do as these seaw walls start to fail and need to be
replaced? Can they be replaced in a manner that provides some ecosystem services and even extend the life of the seaw wall? And that's what we want to talk about. So we've done these projects where we a seaw wall will stay in place. We just put rocks and plants in front of
it. Um so there are living seaw walls now. And that rock that we put in front of the seaw wall is actually protecting the seaw wall. So the waves aren't hitting it and causing resuspension of sediments etc. Um and this is just a cross-section of what this looks like. You just put rock in. when you get near
the inner tidal zone, you put a sediment tube in there and then further rock and you can plant in that. Um, and so we put plants in. You can even put mangroves in. And these mangroves are 7 feet tall. They're being trimmed at this height. They're not causing a viewshed issue. We
all want to keep this keep our viewshed if you're going to be on the water. So, it really provides some ecosystem services that I think are are really beneficial. And so, how does that pertain to here? Um, if you're in really tight areas, you can even put things in front bolt right onto your seaw wall
that provide some interstitial spaces for critters to live. And this is what they look like. Again, this is still better than the flat wall because every flat wall energy goes straight down and up. And whatever goes down is undercutting that seaw wall and resuspending sediments, making the water
dirty. So, this helps take care of that energy. Um, and so we partnered, as Camden mentioned, with you guys, the Tampa Bay Estster program and us to come up with three designs. So there's three
houses that are next to each other. Each one has a slightly different situation. So we got engineering designs at $50,000 to get them designed and permitted. And what's so unique about this, the designs we have will be literally given out to
all the residents that have waterfront property. And with maybe tweaking where their dock is compared to the what we show on our drawing, it'll be a very inexpensive way to move forward. And we designed these specifically so you only need one permit instead of four. Usually
these take four permits and it can take six months. No one wants to wait that long. Um so we can get these done in a quicker way and it's very progressive that the city is doing this. Um like mentioned we had a $39,000
grant. You guys help with that and now we have design drawings in the existing conditions. In no way can you see this but if you when I hand out the plans here in the next week or two when we're finalized we can provide those to you. But there are three homes right here on
Maritana Drive and those are the ones that are getting these designs. Um, and again, no one can read this, but what I what it is is you're going to have a vertical wall there and as it comes up to the top, we put in features like rock
and and sediment. So, you can plant near the top and the waves will go over the top of that wall, but it'll be stopped at that area. And so, that's when you have the ecosystem services. Um, these are just some kind of renderings what they could look like.
Again, we can provide all this to you, but on the bottom you can see the seaw wall is in there. It's 12 in further out than the existing seaw wall. And and then we as we slope up, we get to the critical elevation of five. Most of these seaw walls are sitting at 3.8 or highest four. If we don't get them up to
five, then just king tides will come into the streets. And you guys already have that. I don't have to tell you that. But if we can get that continuously around the all around the edges, we will have then a barrier that'll take us to 2016 as far as a projection of sea level rise. These are
not going to help you for hurricane Helen. Okay, this will help you for everyday high tides, small storms, and so it really is something that'll be a benefit from all the flooding that happens in your infrastructure right
now. And so we are done with the designs except for the final tweaks which we'll have here in the next week. Like I said, the issue permits have been issued and this permitting guide we're going to hand out to to the city to provide to the residents. It shows you step by step
if they want to permit it themselves or get a consultant. It be pretty inexpensive to pull the permits because the designs are done. And the last thing is we want to get you connect connected with good contractors. understand they will come in here and
work in this area and not want because some of the contractors we talked to were saying, "Oh, we're not going to use these designs. We'll use our own engineer." No, we have these designed and permitted. We wanted to use this particular design. So, we have a list of contractors that we've had good
experience with. So, I want to provide that to you guys for the residents. And I will stop there and try and answer any questions you might have. Commissioner Cy. >> Uh, thank you. That was great. I appreciate this. And I had a couple of
questions. Uh, one of them I I wanted to see what you would say relative to insects would do to the when you're using adding plants to your yard. Some people have voiced a concern that might cause additional insects. So I just wanted to have some insight on that as
>> and you're saying insects like mosquitoes and >> exactly maybe no seums or is there any association with plants that we should be concerned about? Um, I think you will, if you had an area, some quiescent water somewhere in a back cove where there's not a lot of wind and stuff, you
could maybe see an increase in insects. But what I think where where this is close to the Gulf like this, there's enough wind here and what our tiny veneer of plants growing there is not going to be like a big mangro forest that could bring a lot of insects in.
I've not seen that as being an in um an issue, but especially in this location, I don't think it would be. >> Okay. Thank you. And then one other question, if you could bring up page 10 on your presentation. I had a question of what I was looking at on that one.
>> You just have to tell me what >> uh that's 17. Just keep going backwards and you'll get um seven more slides back. You'll be there. >> Okay. Okay. Sorry. >> Am I going the right direction? >> That's 13.
There it is. Right there. >> Okay. >> So, I was just trying to understand how this design would fit into the area that we're looking at. I see where you have the existing grade as the dotted line
there. And it looks like a very shallow slope, >> right? And Al, this is not for your location. This was just a this was an example for the pictures I was showing you. This was on the Hillsborough River. It's shallower. There's no resources.
You guys have resources right off your seaw wall in some cases because there's coral. Surprisingly, when I dove this area, I was surprised to see coral there and in some places seaggrass. So, when you have those natural resources, we don't want to impact those, right? Because
permitting is a nightmare. Um, so your situation is a it's deeper water and um, we wouldn't have a design like that. It's going to be a flat wall in the water. As you come up is where we put that living veneer of >> So there's a flat wall that basically is
your retainer that keeps things from working its way down into the canal. That >> correct. >> Okay. All right. That answers my questions. Okay. >> I think it's great. Thank you. >> Sure. Good, sir. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Robinson.
>> Very excited to see the three designs. Um, I think this is great. Um, I remember growing up in Treasure Island when we had the mangroves and it was a short canal, but had the mangroves and had all the red hermit crabs >> all over the place. And as a child, I'd
you know, run and scurry and they'd scurry off. So, it was it was really exciting. So there will be some hopefully some of that back. So that's great. Um I had a question in regards to the project itself. >> Um is this something we can share with other communities as well
>> if they have the same conditions? Right. We have I counted at least 70 houses that have the exact same depth, same conditions. So these plans are easy to transfer, but it could be somewhere else that has the same conditions. Right. Right. >> Um and so it can go beyond this. It's
very progressive of the city to be doing this. I've known I've have never had an opportunity to not only come up with designs like this, but to hand that out to all the residences really makes it easy for them if they want to go that route. >> Absolutely. And and you know, I'm looking at the big picture. It's great if it's a something we can share with
other communities that are in the same situation because we definitely do have the uh uh some old seaw walls and some um uh tight issues to say the least. Thank you. >> Sure. Okay, I do have a few more questions for you, sir. Number one, thank you.
Appreciate this. This is actually really, really helpful. Um, not all of our properties, not all of our waterfront have a seaw wall. I know some have just actually natural mangroves and things like that. And so, I know you mentioned a five- foot design theoretically. So, I'm guessing you're
imagining at least a wall five foot above the the natural water line. I'm sure there's a phrase for it. But if I don't have a seaw wall, if we've got just uh sloping land with some mangroves, which some of our properties do, how do we solve that? Because you you you build a 5-ft wall up and and uh
and and and around neighbors that are actually have walls and then you get somebody that's got just mangrove and what I call that is a funnel. You just kind of took all that water and ran it down the lowest point. And so I'm trying to figure out what those without the seaw wall that are in these same environments should be doing. What's
your recommendation for those? Um, that's a great question, Scott, because one of the three houses has that situation. >> Okay. >> They have mangroves growing over the original seaw wall, you know, so it is a living shoreline. So, how do we achieve the five for them? So, what we do in
that case, we we're putting in a seat wall, as it's called, that's um about 16 inches sticking out of the ground. You could go sit on it, right? Um, and that ties to the seaw walls on either side at elevation five. side seat wall. It get
ch gets that elevation five without having to mess with the that kind of living shoreline they already have. Leave the mangroves alone goes behind it and you can step right over it. You can sit on it and that way if you do have real high water it that wall will keep it from coming into the streets.
>> So it's essentially a lower wall behind the mangroves. Correct. Uh that >> elevation total in that sense. >> Yes, it definitely works that way. And so there's not many of them, but that's the this I'm glad we had that one of the three properties happen to have that
because that way it addresses that kind of situation. I >> think you had an over I'd love to go back to the overhead picture and just maybe I didn't pay attention to it, so I just want to see it real quick. Which one had it? >> It's the slide with the colors on it. >> It's got the little on the right. >> Sorry. Yeah, I think he's going to find
it for us. Thank you. >> There. >> There it is. See this one right here? >> Yeah. I I I guess I'm looking at the right picture and I see >> uh Yeah, just for the left one that that was just depicted that when when we did this work for Broward County there on
that insert a they show the seat wall on the on the outside or the inside of the palm trees. But on the left side, you can see this house at the one property. It has mangroves. So, we're just putting the seat wall. Again, it's only about 16 inches out of the ground. Um, and then
it ties to the property to the north to their wall >> to the adjacent walls on each side of the property. >> Right in that way. >> Okay. And the seat wall, I'm guessing it's the black structure that I'm seeing in this left side here. >> Is it usually is it doesn't look very thick and I'm trying to figure out the
the is it a is it concrete? Is it a concrete barrier or is it >> It can be done with multiple materials. They're they're proposing concrete here. >> Okay. >> This one you can it's pretty narrow. I mean widthwise because it's really is not holding much back. Every once in a while water would be against it but it's
again it's not so high that it needs to be but you can see they put it in the ground pretty heavily so that it can handle the water when it's all the way up to the top of it even. So >> Okay. Thank you. That's uh it's very good. Um and can you tell me it sounds
like you've been doing this uh quite a while just based on your expertise. Can you can you suggest I mean beyond these three that are proposed? I I assume hopefully they'll go forward with it and and see where we go, but do you have other other communities? I know you mentioned the Hillsboro River or something similar to St. Pete Beach is what I'm looking for. Have Have we successfully done this in a community
similar to St. Pete Beach with similar I guess uh um you know uh elevation changes down to the water? Do you have Do you have a sample project we can look at another community and say this is how well it's done in community X? Um, well, we've done this with three residents in
on the Hillsboro River. Again, it's not the same here, you guys have, but same situation. All three of them we designed for them and they're putting them in the ground now. Um, so it was again banding some folks together. We tried to get four or five people together, but three did. And then when they saw the results
and each neighbor wanted to get in, I'm like, you missed the boat. But we can help them. But so we've done that. That that's about a year out ahead of you guys. But we did not set up the designs to hand out to folks because they have so much variation there. It's not as
easy here. It's pretty standard in general. We have that one mangrove, but most of them are are just a straight seaw wall. And so the two designs we have will work for most of the people here. >> Yeah. And I and I'm just thinking there's such a there's such a variety of
of different heights and and things. So is there is there information for residents that might want to follow up with questions? How do they contact either your group or can they contact your group? And if so, how for follow-up questions to to maybe learn about their specific implementations at their property? >> Yeah. And that'll be all part of the
information in the guide, homeowners guide for permitting these. Our contacts in there, all the regulatory agency contacts are in there if they want to talk to those folks. Um, so yeah, we'll be glad to help wherever we can. We we really want to promote this type stuff because I think it's it has multiple
benefits not only for the residents but also for the ecosystem and water quality for this area. >> Yes sir. Okay. >> Thank you. I think that was my question. So I was looking around make sure there aren't any others. >> I have another one to follow up. Um you mentioned 70 homes would be applicable
to this correct >> at least. And that's just on that's just in the Donses neighborhood now across the canal. >> They could use it too. I didn't look at that side. We were just trying to focus in here, but there have very similar conditions as you do right across the water.
>> Is there anything that doesn't lend itself to this? >> Um, you know, I really didn't do an assessment of all the properties, but I think even even if it doesn't fit perfectly, having these designs, they can be tweaked way easier than starting from scratch. >> And so hopefully that it makes it easier
for the residents. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Sure. >> Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Cy. >> Yeah. I had one other uh could you expound what the four permits that would normally be required? Which agencies are those? >> Well, if you were just um trying to put
in something not like we designed which is 12 inches out instead of 18 in out with the state allows as soon as you go those extra six inches, then now you're tripping into Panelis County's permit. Okay? So, their permit for that and we didn't want to wait for their permit so
we just designed it six inches closer. Right. Um, and so it's Panelis County, you got the state, whether it's SwiftMUD, most of these will be D because they're single family homes, and then you got the Army Corps of Engineers. Those are the three primary
ones that will get involved. Um, I don't think you'll have the fourth one here, but those three you'll have to get. But the way we designed it, D can issue their permit and even though the regulations were taken away that they can issue for the core once since it's only 12 in out, they still have their
provision to give the permit. So when we got that D permit, it said you have the CORE's permission to to go forward. So I was surprised by that, but that really made it easy. Not knowing they were going to give it to us, we applied for the core and we got the core permit as
well. But you the way this is set up is one permit and it didn't take more than 60 days to get that. I know that's 60 days, but I do this for a living and we're lucky to get these permits in six months. >> So, is that the city permit that you >> It would be the city permit because you
guys do have rec um authorities over that. And so I think the city has waved the fees for these type projects, but I'm not sure if that's the case, but I think you guys have been trying to make it a little easier, too. >> Thanks, sir. Appreciate your time this afternoon. >> Sure. Thank you.
>> You was nice. Uh we have a second presentation on Gulf Boulevard undergrounding project status and direction. Good evening. Uh Camden Mills, public services director. I appreciate the opportunity this evening to to give an update on the current status of our Gulf
Boulevard utility undergrounding project. And we also seek your um direction on on next steps moving forward while we're loading this here. Um so the G Boulevard project the the main focus here is is to underground the electrical power street lights and uh the
communication facilities. Um this project was incepted uh several years ago. Um all the way back in in 2020 is when we really established like a long range um budget for this project and it's currently split into three different phases. Um phase one is from
75th Avenue to 55th Avenue and then phase 2 A is from 55th to 45th and then phase 2B is from 45th Avenue to 35th. Um so the entire stretch of of the project that we're looking at here for this project is um from 75th Avenue um down
to 35th Avenue. Phase one of this project as I mentioned um 55th to 75th uh the city has completed our construction um for for the underground conduit work that that we were going to do as part of this. The next step um in the project is for
Spectrum Communications uh to remove their facilities from Duke's poles and then following that Duke would come in behind them and and remove the poles that are no longer in use. Um the latest update that we received from Spectrum last week is that they anticipate um
splicing their fiber um starting on the 27th of this week through the 29th. And then they'll need about two more weeks to finish removing all of their facilities from Duke's poles. And then at that time um Duke would be able to take down the remainders of the poles um
that are mostly on the the west side of Gulf Boulevard um down that stretch. Um so our our plan here is to have the um facilities relocated and Duke's poles removed and underground this summer. Next we move into phase two. Um and
that's that's the main topic um here tonight that that we'd like to see seek your direction on. Um so as I mentioned we fit we split phase two into phase 2 A and 2B um based based on the long range plan and budgeting. The engineering design for this has been completed. Um,
as we mentioned on our last capital projects update, uh, we were working through some hurdles with FDOT on securing um, the permitting from them to do that work within Gulf Boulevard. Um, since then, we've had, um, some productive conversations with them, work through our comments, and we believe um,
we we received some verbal approval. So, we resubmitted that, and we anticipate receiving the final approval um, in hand here so we can have those permits in place. Um, another complexity that we're still working through in this project, um, that that's important to consider is easement coordination. Um, to be able to
put these facilities on on um, the private properties, we do have to get um, easements throughout the corridor. Um, so I'll explain some more information on that here um, in the coming slides. And then finally, the the next step um, for for this phase two u,
would be to advertise a request for proposal uh, for construction services. Um, right now we're working with with our long range budget estimates. Um, so this would allow us to see exactly what those construction numbers look like today in 2026 for this next phase and then we could evaluate um, decisions
from there if we choose. Um, so next I wanted to get into some of the complexities u for for some of those easements um that we're trying to secure for these facilities. Um, so FA phase 2A this is the section from 45th Avenue to
55th Avenue. So far, we have um about 15 easements that are executed and fully recorded. Uh but we're still working through securing about 13 easements. Um and it's important to note about four of those properties are of concern. Um where where we don't aren't working um
towards a path of of approval. Um we have um two parcels um owned by the Plaza Beach Motel. Um three parcels with in Dolphin Village and then two parcels um associated with the Sarata development. Um so our consultant who is um helping us with this easement
coordination, their next recommendation is for the um city to meet with these folks individually and and see what the next steps are on trying to secure those easements. And then in phase two um we we have similar um complexities there. Um right
now we have about 14 easements that have been executed and recorded and then 12 um that still require an easement to be recorded. Um, out of those 12, about four of those are tracking towards approval. Um, but we have another eight properties um that that we need to reach
out to and and have some continued coordination with um to try to get those easements secured. Next, I'd like to highlight uh the the grant agreement that we have that's helped supported this project over the past few years, and that's through Panelis County's interlocal agreement for the Gulf Boulevard Improvement
Program. Um, this was a beautifification project uh for the barrier island uh beaches to to do the same type of thing that we're doing here and undergrounding our street lights and and communication equipment. Um, the grant agreement aotment for the city of St. Pete Beach
was about $8 million total. Um, that would be available to us for through reimbursement after um the construction was completed and and invoices were approved. In total, we've built about $4.1 million um against that grant to date. And so there's about $3.9 million
that's still available um in in that penny for Panelis um interlocal grant that would be available to us for for reimbursement. It is important to note that this agreement is set to expire at the end of this fiscal year um September 30th, 2026. Um so we are coming up to a
timeline there. Um we have um submitted a reimbursement request for about $237,000 in March of this year. um that's to cover some of the efforts um that were done in 2025 for this project. And we have also requested um an agreement
extension from Penllis County um to try to get that September 30th deadline moved further. Um but based on the conversations we've had to date, we have not received any indication that an extension would be um awarded. And then next I'd like to highlight um
where we stand right now on the the project budget for phase 2A. Um, back in about September of 2024, we did a pretty detailed analysis on the project budget. Um, showing where the funds were, um, based on what was originally estimated
in 2020 and then kind of where we stood at at at 2024. Um, right now, since we haven't put this project out to bid yet, we're still working with a lot of those those same estimate numbers. Um so what you see here the the estimated cost remaining for this phase 2A portion from
45th Avenue to 55th is about $8.1 million. Um the sub bullets um underneath that show um what the uh different costs associated um with that would be um so the communication relocations from Spectrum um electrical
relocations and street lights with Duke. Um the construction services contract that's marked as to be determined. Um so right now that's the number that is is estimated at $3.9 million but would need to be confirmed with with actual competitive bids. And then the um
construction inspection um services with our engineer of record um Kimley Horn um that cost is about $210,000. Um so as it stands in the city's capital improvement plan, we have about $1.4
million in in our 2026 CIP remaining. Um, as I mentioned previously, we have about $3.9 million that's available um from Penny for Penllis um reimbursement through that grant. So that shows about $2.8 million of additional city funding
um that would be needed to move this project forward. Um so on top of the 1.4 um what's currently budgeted, we'd be looking for an additional $6.7 million um 3.9 of which is is reimburseable. So tonight, u we we would like to seek
your direction on on whether or not we should continue u with this project or not. Um so we outlined a couple options here for to consider. Um but certainly open to to other options as well. Um so option A that's outlined here is is continue to proceed with the procurement. Um see what those
construction hard bid numbers come at and then we can evaluate um what our decision needs to be from there. Um, one thing to note is, you know, this would be a further investment of of staff's time into this project to continue with the easement coordination and to continue um with that procurement um
that procurement phase. Um, another option to continue uh consider would be just not to proceed at all. Um, consider re reallocating that $1.4 million that is currently budgeted in the city's capital improvement plan. um that that's funded from our general fund and then
forfeit the remaining $3.9 million grant funding um that that is available for for reimbursement. Um one one point to consider the the sunk cost right now in into phase two that that the city has considered is about $718,000. Um so with that I will open it up to to
any comments or questions. Commissioner Maldonado. >> Hey. Uh, good evening. Uh, Director Camden Mills. Uh, can you speak to vulnerabilities from storm surge and saltwater intrusion/corrosion from endpoints and things like that?
>> Sure. Um, you know, certainly not, you know, an electrical engineer, but but from my knowledge and and what I understand of this of this type of project is, you know, you your facilities either are overhead or or they're underground. You know, if you're overhead, you're you're susceptible to to wind. If you're underground, you're
susceptible to to flooding and and saltwater corrosion. Um, a lot of this um infrastructure is is flood resistant. Um, but it's it's not 100% floodproofed. Um, so I think that is still a vulnerability um considering a coastal island um like like this that if you
were to get storm surge flooding, we could expect um some some damage to that that underground facilities. Um but um you know I I would defer that to either you know Duke Energy and and their data points on on these type of projects or or more structural or electrical engineer.
>> Very good. Thank you >> Commissioner Cy. Uh yeah uh can so I thought there was a a a match funding match that was required for this that would not be reimburseable is so it looks to me like
we're saying our total cost would be 1.4 and then the rest would be provided can you >> in addition to the 1.4 um the city would also need about 2.8 eight. >> Okay. So, it is about 4 million that
would be coming out of our funds and then there would be uh that's not re reimburseable. Is that >> that's correct? >> Oh, okay. All right. Okay. Um then another question I had relative to the easements uh would is can you
explain how the timeline would be um relative to an extension or not getting an extension? Do we have to have the easements taken care of before the deadline as it stands right now or? >> As it stands right now, um all reimbursement requests would would need
to be submitted, you know, by by that deadline. Um so easements would need to be recorded, you know, work work getting started. Um as it stands on on the um see on this slide here where I estimate the $ 8.1 million and I list the the
different sub bullets below that. um the Spectrum and the Duke Energy bills, those could be paid um right away without starting construction. Um so I would anticipate if if we put this project out to bid, the numbers became favor were favorable and we wanted to
move forward with it, we would um pay these Duke and Spectrum bills first to draw down the rest of that penny money, seek our reimbursement, and then the rest of the project would be up to the city. >> Okay. Yeah, that's good. And then now these uh numbers are all based on 2024
uh uh estimates, right? >> The um the first three the the 121 to 3.6 million and the 261,000 those are all hard numbers. Um as well as that $ 209,000. The one that's still um to be determined is is that $3.9 million
construction cost. That that could most likely increase um being that this was an older estimate. I don't know if you had sent us the email today that showed the cost overruns exactly in the uh first phase and I noticed that the big overrun was actually the undergrounding
part of it. So that's where uh it it was the couple of million extra or >> and we ended up with a six million short. I think it was a combination of of a lot of things. You know, material shortages kind of cost overruns there. Timing wise added to some cost overruns.
And I think, you know, the initial budget, you know, may not have been very tight to begin with. >> Yeah. I mean, I feel like since we're looking at 2024 uh number on that undergrounding FA part of this, it's bound to be more expensive now and then I'm not sure how much more overrun will
be involved with this one just with the uh extra complications of doing it in the our barrier island sandy soil and water levels are really high. >> So, but I mean what what is your take on that? Do you feel like we would be looking at an overrun on this? More than
likely from where? >> I think more than likely would it would be higher than this 3.9 number, but you know, I'd want to put that out to bid to see exactly. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. And how long would that when would we have numbers from the bids? >> Usually we um put those on the streets
for about 30 days. Um so it's it's about 90 days, you know, kind of from from start to finish until we solicit it, close it, evaluate it, and see what what those numbers are. Um, so our goal would be we, you know, we're on a tight timeline. So if we could get this out to bid in June, you know, then we'd be
making decisions in in Octo or August, September. >> Well, I feel like the hurricane slowed us down on that on this whole process. Is that true or >> Yes. Yeah. Well, as we were working through recovery, a lot of a lot of our CIP kind of just was put on hold until,
you know, that updated budget cycle was was approved. >> Okay. Okay. Well, then um I guess I may have a couple of more questions here in a second. Commissioner Robinson, >> this project's been six years in the making, right? At least
>> 2020. Um you've come at the kind of the tail end of it because it started a long time ago. Uh or 2020, six years ago. Um and it kind of followed on the heels of my beach, right? Indian Rocks or was it Readington?
>> Not sure. was one of the beaches and we were going to piggy back with their original construction company to do this and that's when we got our cut of the monies from Pennies for Penllis just like they did and we're going to it was
at that point fully funded and it's gone from a fully funded project to now a city funded project for the most part to complete it to where it's to to get the whole project done. Um, I had a question on the status of the under uh the
roadway uh for the easements. I know that there's there was some we had a conversation a while back about um being able to put the undergrounding under the roadway versus there was I guess some push to put it underneath our
uh sidewalks for the easements. Correct. >> Is that was that push still there? the the main concern about whether going um within the roadway or under the sidewalks that was mainly that was the permitting issue that that we were running into with um FDOT. Um the
easement issue is is more for the equipment like the pedestals and and the transformers and and things like that. >> When I travel through other towns, I do see that their pedestals and their transformers are raised. Yet I see from the undergrounding that they've done so far, their pedestals are not raised.
>> All right. Okay. which is very discouraging um from that standpoint, especially from a resiliency, from a fire hazard, from everything else. Um as we've said, it's not waterproof. And the one thing I think we've learned
with Milton and um Hela is uh proof is better than resistance. So uh I've got big concerns on that. um whether that's the way to go. I mean, the hardening isn't pretty. We can just take a look
down the street over here and see all the hardened poles on uh Bogusa Drive here from City Hall down to 71st and you'll see them all or look down 73rd and you can see all the hardening poles.
So, um it was kind of done as more of a beautifification project in general. >> Understood. Um, so I hate to see it go, but I hate to spend this money that we don't really have. Um, and definitely that last last end of it,
it looks like there's just more money to be spent and that project's going to as well from a construction cost standpoint. It's going to go up as well. >> Yes. Currently, there is no funding plan in place for that last 10 blocks. So, we're looking at 10 blocks now,
basically. 45th to 55th, 10 blocks, and then another 10 blocks. So, 20 blocks, correct? >> Um, see, I did write down another one. Um, excuse me,
it's timed out for me. I think you already answered that one. how much we'd spent to date. Um, accuracy of that. Um, that that's all I have. Thank you. It's I I know you took over this project that you didn't start,
so I appreciate your work on it. >> Commissioner Marott. >> Sure. Thanks, Camden. Um, just a couple quick questions for you. Um, Commissioner Robinson mentioned seeing some of the the the transformer boxes and things in other communities where
things have been undergrounded being elevated. Is that a uh is that by by Duke's choice? Is that by the design when the project was started? >> I'm not sure, but I could I could do a little bit digging and get some clarification on who kind of dictated that.
>> Who dictates that? Um, and then and then my next question is kind of along those same lines. Um, and so the the I don't know answer is completely acceptable. Um, ju does I mean does Duke have an opinion themselves about undergrounding on the barrier islands or do they have
changing views on that or do they have do they express an opinion at all about that or is that purely just a barrier island community goes well gosh it would be a lot prettier if we underground it and Duke goes well if you want to we'll you know if you want to do it and you want to pay for it we'll do whatever you want. Um again that that'd be something
I'd like to follow up and okay some some formal reply on. Um and then my last question is that if um on the you know once the the infrastructure is in place um undergrounded you know the the section that we have from 55th to 75th if that if that infrastructure does get
damaged by flooding is then Duke responsible for the maintenance and the replacement of that infrastructure if that happens or is that um >> my my thinking would be yes it would be on on Duke's responsibility especially if the conduit itself itself was not
damaged and it was just replacing the lines within that conduit. But, um, that's another point I can follow up with them to confirm. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Commissioner Clausy. Uh, Director Mills, I spent some time thinking about this today and so I put together um the commissioners have a
copy. I don't I don't have a copy for you, but it was just some research that I did today and uh I was looking at Duke's uh storm protection plan that they filed with the Florida Public Service Commission and where they basically say that undergrounding is not
always practical on barrier islands and they say uh the sandy soils and the susceptibility to flooding uh make undergrounding less effective and more expensive. in these locations.
So, it it kind of um and then just like what you were saying, I want to uh sort of reemphasize that a little bit. In some places, undergrounding might make perfect sense if there's not a chance of getting or I should say a very large
chance of your utilities being covered by saltwater or other kind of flooding. And and there are a lot of locations even in Florida that fall into that category and where you could see where wind would be a bigger threat and flooding might not be a threat at all
and in a lot of places have trees like Gainesville, Tallahassee, etc. So there would be the perfect place to underground whereas here if you underground we're actually lowering our critical infrastructure and um whereas I have to raise my air conditioning
condenser up to my roof level. They're going to take the transformers, which are getting to be hard to find these days, off the pole where they're up in the air and and lower them. So, if you did have a high wind event here, there's a good chance that there would be very
high water associated with it, too. So, I'm just trying to think out loud here. And uh to me, I'm not sure I wouldn't rather spend 4 million on a neighborhood street. And so that brings up the question is uh if we didn't do this
undergrounding is there any other um where where would this money could it be used in other places for um capital >> the the um the 3.9 million for for Penny Panelis for that interlocal that couldn't be used um for for other
projects but the city's money that 1.4 4 million that's currently budgeted out of our general fund into that capital fund. That could certainly be um reallocated to to another project. Um or um right now in in our proposed uh fiscal year 27
budget, there's also more general fund money um shown for this project. So that could be, you know, re allocated to another project as well. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Director Mills. Uh thank you number one. I appreciate this. Uh this is uh
something we've at least I've I uh I've heard about over the years and in my short tenure as as mayor um you know we're faced with this kind of decision. I I know it's a lot of work. I know you inherited as as Commissioner Robinson said. So thank you for your research on it. Um if you'll go back please one
slide to uh to slide seven. And so I'm looking at we have we have 1.4 million budgeted right now. Correct. That's what I'm saying in front of me. And uh even with the grant of 3.8 from the Penllis County, we would still need 2.8
additional beyond what we have. Am I reading that right? >> That's correct. >> So we're short 2.8 million just to finish phase 2 A, which is an $8 million $8.1 million project. And I'm going to turn and ask you what phase 2B is, which is another 10 blocks.
So unless there's something structurally different about the avenues between 35th and 45th and 45th and 55th, I would imagine you tell me it's another $8.1 million to finish the last 10 blocks. >> It it it's going to likely be around in that range. I think the previous
estimates were about 6.7 million um for for that last phase. So I would expect upwards of of that. >> Okay. Um and you mentioned there is this is fiscal year 2026 budget remaining. How much budget is remaining for this project through all remaining years?
>> That's it. That that's the only money that's currently budgeted um with city's funds right now is this 1.4. >> Okay. I thought you just a moment ago mentioned that there was some future funds that we wouldn't have to >> we're we're proposing in in the next year's budget, but that's not um you know adopted and actually budgeted.
>> Okay. Um a few more I'm I'm gonna bounce you around, so I apologize. I'm talking money now, but now I'm going to go into easements. Um, I noticed some of your easements were kind of in the process and some were overtly denied. Um, very specific. You can stop right
there. Go down one more. Right where you were back up right here. Overtly denied. The pink one. Right. And so overtly denied. Can we proceed without that easement? >> This in this um location, the design was
adjusted to remain overhead. >> So we'll end up even with our plan. So, I'm I'm kind of I'm walking you through this and I'm sorry. I'm trying to mentally walk myself through it. 2.8 million left on finishing from 55th to
45th. Another 8ish million to get down to to to finish it all theoretically. And so, we're talking $10 million to get it done. And we'll still end up with an overhead pole line sitting right here. >> Correct. Yep. And then in that >> lines go down, come back up a pole, go
across this, come back down, go through. Is that Is that right? Correct. And then you would you would seek to have um that property owner underground themselves when when they redevelop that property. >> Okay. Ditto on the at risks.
>> The the at risks have not been redesigned to accommodate for um denial. So those ones in red on this slide, those are the only ones where the design has been adjusted to accommodate for. Um those the other ones that are shown um still in pink uh green or yellow, those
easements would be needed. um or a redesign would be needed. >> Okay. Will you go back one more slide for me, please? Just I'm sorry. I could probably do it on my thing. There's a lot of pink and green and pink and yellow there. Right. Theoretically, I guess on the good news, if if if uh these didn't come to
fruition, we would stay overhead and save some costs. Am I right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh but again, I think you you've kind of touched it with with Commissioner Maldonado's question. What does it what does it feel like to be a hybrid property or a hybrid city where some of your stuff is up and some of
it's down and did we really do anything beneficial here or did we is it is like a chain your weakest link or what are we doing here? I'm trying to figure out your your assessment of it is a >> my assessment um you know this is mainly a beautifification type type project. Um
you um you do have some resiliency in undergrounding but you're you're more susceptible to flood damage than you were if you were overhead. Um, so you're removing the the wind danger and and you're could have potential more flood >> and then and to uh Commissioner
Marriott's question, whether the whether the electrical line or whether the utility is I'll just go Duke Electrical, but I assume it's Spectrum. It's it's all of them, right? Whether that line is above ground or underground, if it fails, it's usually that utility provider
that's that it's their cost to fix it in these situations, right? >> Yes. typically. >> So there's not really a a cost benefit on going of the city to do this. It's truly beautifification is what I'm hearing. It's like we might get a little resiliency out of it if it's a wind event and we'll lose some resiliency if
it's a water res event. Uh and for us, we get just a prettier street for what I'm hearing now is about 10 million extra dollars to finish this up. Okay. Um I'll ask just a few more questions, please. And I'm not Please don't take my questions. I'm pepper you
a lot, but I don't mean it in a bad way. I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around it. This is what I do. Um I I know that FDOT uh is looking to redo a lot of the work on uh which is essentially this corridor. This entire
corridor is uh FDOT owned and they're looking to resurface. I saw some work that they're doing potentially on the sidewalks. I don't know if we're in the same kind of easement area. you know, are are are they going to do some work that's going to solve our problems in some way, shape, or form to make our
project easier? If if we if we tie in with them uh while they're doing all their work to repair the streets and the sidewalks and whatever they else they might be doing, hopefully some of the uh the uh the um easements along the the medians. Um is there something that we
can tie into that might mitigate our costs in the in the undergrounding piece? >> That that's something we can reach out to FOT about. Um, from my understanding and in the project that's coming in the near term right now is is pretty minor scope um just to repair some storm damages. So, it'll be like curb um
sidewalk repairs u maybe some asphalt type repairs, but not a like full-blown roadway resurfacing type project. Um so, I think it's I think the project that's coming in the near term with FDOT is going to be more limited in scope. So, I don't think they would have um like
underground boring um as as part of their scope. That that's something we can we can reach out to and and see if they would be interested in that though. >> Okay. And then the last thing that I'm kind of struck with, and I'm I'm sorry, I'm just kind of absorbing some of what I heard earlier. Uh we go through all
this trouble to underground our our our uh utilities and then Duke sets them on a on a pedestal that's at ground level and uh as Commissioner Robinson alluded to and we're right back in the same issue, right? We're I mean, I think the reason we would do this is that the next
big flood event, we don't have major outages across the city like we experienced, >> you know, during Helen and Milton. Uh but if Duke doesn't either elevate their pieces or I assume they wouldn't underground them and harden them that way, then we're just at the mercy of
Duke's uh pedestals and their their I don't know if they're generators or whatever ties all this together from Duke's perspective that is sitting above ground at ground level. That's that's our weak point assuming we underground everything. Is that a fair assessment?
>> Yes, that's that's a fair assessment. >> Okay. And we can't force them to elevate or do anything else. We just or or can we I think you said you'd ask. >> We could ask. I haven't I haven't had those conversations with Duke personally as far as scope. >> Okay.
>> All right. Um I think that's it for me. Commissioner Marott, please. >> Sure. Thank you. So I think after um because I think you guys are looking for direction from us, right? Not just questions. And so, um, after after listening to all of this, I think my
feelings are that you this project, as we've said, started off as a beautifification project. Um, and and I think that has validity, right? Like you drive down a street that has undergrounded utilities, it does look much less visually cluttered and and,
you know, has some advantages. Um, and so on the on the on the pro side of things, you know, a beautifification project is always nice. It makes it look nicer. Um, we have the opportunity to do it at a bit of a discount because we have
the the grant money that we can use, you know. So, so you you know, I I would look at that as you know, if we were ever going to do it, we'd want to do it now when we can do it at a bit of a discount. The other way of looking at it, um, which I'm leaning more towards, is that,
you know, the the the phase 2B is probably never going to happen realistically. And so, how much drama and expense do we want to go through for phase 2 A where
we don't have guaranteed easements? We don't have people who are what who are eager to grant us easements or they already would have. Um, and it is it a good use of taxpayer dollars for both
the city funds a and the grant money because let's be honest, the money that comes from Penny from Penllis is still taxpayer dollars, right? So, um, so is it a good use of those dollars? And and though part of me really strongly feels like gosh, if you can do a project, even
if it's just a beautifification project, at a discount by using grant money, you should probably do it. Um, you know, I I feel like there's enough complications with this one that I'm not certain it's the after after hearing everyone's comments, I'm leaning more
towards thinking that it's probably not the best thing to do. Um, so, so at right now, if you had to ask me what's my direction, maybe I would say go ahead and put out an RFP and let's see what the actual construction costs are. But I would be leaning towards that probably isn't
going to happen. >> Robinson. >> Oh, sorry, Commissioner Cy. >> Okay, I'm up. So, um, so the neighborhoods in general are all, um, not undergrounded. So, those are all
subject to high wind loss of power. And there's where most of the trees are as well. And then, uh, if we do have the flood now, we'll be losing equipment that's on the ground level that we've lowered. So, it's like no matter which
one happens, we're going to get it. So, I I just don't see the benefit of this. and and that's just amplified by there seems to be desperate need for the money in other areas right now.
>> A big chunk of 75th North is undergrounded in the neighborhood. Not not that that is specifically relevant, but >> No, that is >> but but a big a big chunk of that neighborhood is grounded. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, please go ahead. >> Well, no. I I've I've had feedback that
people would obviously like to have their uh utilities undergrounded in neighborhoods and once again I'm not sure that's the best idea on a barrier island but that's debatable but in this case I feel like the money needs to be put somewhere else.
>> Mr. Alonado. >> Yeah. So I'm not a fan of uh use it or lose it. Uh but I will say that just based on the conversations at this point, I'd like to reallocate the 1.4 million towards something else uh in the budget. Uh for the things that we
discussed, just the cost versus benefit and the risk analysis, I think that it may not do us the service that we think it would. So thank you, >> Mr. Robinson. >> Are there any costs to for the completion of phase one that we still
will have? No. >> Okay. Just want to make sure on that. Um, just as I stated before, because this was a fully funded >> $15 million beautifification project that has turned into now at least a 10 plus million
that it's going to cost us. So, um I um I can't see going forward with this that at our current situation that the city's in where we need money in other areas to uh that I think would take a priority. And I'm concerned as well as to the
resiliency of the undergrounding um aspect. And uh with that being said, I did not call and I don't know if anybody else has called to check. I just looked on my phone. It was Indian Rocks that we were piggybacking with to see how they went and how they did with how their
undergrounding went with their storm. But I do know that it is was a different construction company that did their undergrounding versus us going with Duke because that changed and that was a contributing factor to that 15 million
not being uh uh fully funded anymore. I think four years ago we were it was only $6 million and 20 I'm sorry in 2024 two years ago it was only uh $6 million that we were short on this project. Now we're looking at 10 plus because we even with
the 10 we're not taking in account the increases in the construction costs on both phase um uh 2 A and 2B. So I I would say from a beautifification standpoint, maybe we can try something else. It's
don't think it's going to be I I just don't think it's a a good use of our taxpaying money in the situation that we're currently in because we are still not in blue skies financially. >> Um yeah, I I I tend to agree. I I got to
tell you, I've I've heard very passionate feedback from some residents on both sides. Some that say it's got to got to happen. We we started it, it's got to finish, right? And other residents, I think we got an email, at least I certainly got an email in the last day or two, uh you know, suggesting that the dangers of of undergrounding
and how they lead to fires in some instances and things like that. So, I know there's passion on both sides. I think for me, I'm it's just my nature. I hate to give away $4 million and say, "No, we don't need it. No, thank you." And so now I'm asking I I you know for me I think ideally if we could find a
good use for it. I realize we can't use the 3.869 million to be to be clear. We can't use that anywhere else but undergrounding. Is that I I think I just want to make sure I hear that right. >> That's correct. >> All right. So if we don't do this we lose 3.869. I certainly don't out of out of a what
is still a 10 plus million dollar kind of left of work to do to really get us underground. And we'll still end up with some stuff over overground no matter what. We're in a hybrid situ situation no matter what. I think um is there anything if if we pulled the the the
fiscal year 2026 budget the 1.4 million we pulled it out and said look we don't want you to spend that but you still got the grant for the 4 million. Is there something some some bow you can wrap up to Commissioner Robinson's perspective? some work you can do that might that might advance us a little bit without just giving the money back or is there a
conversation maybe city manager to be had with with the county that says look we we we've got until September to use it but we'd love to use it in other ways you know can we please reallocate it somewhere because we don't think it's the best spend of our money but I just you know we've got 4 million sitting our coffers and I hate to give it back if we
can find a good use for it either engineering wise and something that that provides more tangible value uh so I would I would love to see us uh potentially pull again pull our portion of the budget unless it's mandated for part of the part of the match. Uh and
then see if there's another alternative that we might be able to request. you know, is there some way we can reallocate this because I hate to, you know, yes, it's found money for the for the for the county, but we could certainly use it in other areas and if they would allow us, I think we'd find
better uses for it than still being in a hybrid, you know, undergrounding situation. >> So, I don't know if we can investigate that as maybe a next step >> if So, a couple comments. One is we've already asked the county if we could
reallocate it towards other things and they've told us definitively no. >> Did you say pretty please? I'm kidding. I've used all my charm >> and continue to do so with the county. Um I I'm hearing from three people that they don't wish to continue. So unless
you have persuaded those other three to take away and go research this concept of using the 3.8 8 from the county to do some partial construction, but I'm looking at my
director. Is that even feasible that you would be able to construct, let's say, two blocks before September? I I'm just throwing that out there because that's kind of what >> it certainly wouldn't be possible to construct. Um if you if you wanted to
use four then yeah that probably would take you down to probably two or three blocks when you're factoring in like economies of scale. >> Um that would require renegotiating our agreements with Spectrum and Duke. I think that would be the longer lead time. >> Understood. And we'd still have to get all these easements
>> done or not. Right. And if we don't get these easements done by September, roughly about three or four months and I'm seeing about 13 on this page and again probably 12 on the next one. None of this really comes to fruition or either that or they all go overhead. Is that right? >> That's correct,
>> man. Okay. Thank you. >> Sarah, I know if this is a just a recommend. I think I did hear three, you know, not proceed, but I I want to make sure this is this a motion we need to make or just give you some direction. You got your direction or >> We have our direction unless the city
attorney. >> Do you want to take any public comment on the issue? Are there any cards for this issue, Renee? >> Yeah. All right. Well, yeah, we'll take one. >> John Kersman. >> Thank you. Thanks. >> Thank you, Canon.
>> John Kersman be on the way. You know, this is a an email I sent in 2024. And I unfortunately went from being like the chicken or egg breakfast who was was the chicken. I was just involved. I'm more like the pig. I'm very committed.
Um because one of the distinctions we have to make is that overhead wires when they break fail open. In other words, you have a blackout. You don't have power because the wire broke that the pole fell over.
Underground wiring in itself is not a problem. And as I said in 20 2024 prior to the hurricane, I said undergrounding is okay, but the end points need to be protected. So if
the base stations, the transformers were as elevated as we require our homeowners and businesses to elevate at the very other end of the same wire, I wouldn't have a problem other than I don't think anyone really wants one of these big platforms on their lawn
either. So then you get into that whole pole, you know, cellular tower kind of discussion too. But the the problem is just that and I've worked with electricians after Sandy who've explained how if water gets into the sheath at the end of the wire
so where the lugs are um on ground level it then gets into the the the coating of the wire works its way down creates this green ugly paste that eventually shorts out. As people in Marco Island discovered it actually produces gas when it does that. So if you have a sealed
conduit, it builds up the gases and then it blew out a utility room in in a condo building there. And I I provided the the fire department study that analyze how to avoid these things. Don't do this. Um so you know, if you could use the money
and it would still be an undergrounding project, but look at how to make your energy more resilient even for the people that already are undergrounded. So, I had to replace an underground line or the the Duke did and and I was running on the quote baby for
like 3 months because I only had 120 volts and they had to figure out how to make it 220 again. And then my neighbor just this last month, he lost one of his legs and had to wait until they came and replaced that. And then, of course, I wrote this in September 20th of 2024.
And less than a week later, I would have wished to have been proven wrong, but that's my house. And I was told by the fire investigator it was due to the the wiring d not in the house but the power that came when the neutral shorts with
the other lines. So overhead fails open. But when salt water or especially salt water that's even highly conductive crosses two wires now you've got a whole other weird situation going on. You've got power going into the homes but it's
not coming out the way it should. It has to go find a ground to come down. This is how you have 220 volt lines. It's a big problem. So, I I commend you for what you did, but I just hope maybe you could use some of the money to help make what we've got more resilient. >> Can I uh I'm good. Thank you, sir. I
appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you for your feedback. Ken, then can I ask you one more question? I don't know if this is out of protocol. I'd just love to ask Ken one more question, please. Sir, like this is what's occurring to me, and I'm sorry I should have asked this question earlier. It didn't occur to me until I just heard this discussion. Um, you
know, we got 4 million left and we keep talking about these Duke pedestals that are still sitting at ground level and and the problems less the the the underground wires or the overhead wires. It's these connections that are sitting right where the water is going to be prominent. And so, is there a design
that might just take the 4 million and work on those Duke pedestals and raise them up if Duke were immunable to it? I don't know if that's I mean, we're still talking about hardening our our our uh our utilities, but we're talking about taking those pedestals and raising them up where appropriate to mitigate flood
risk that is already sitting in our system, whether these wires are underground or overhead. Is there anything we could do there? And I guess this is my last gasp, but how could we spend the 4 million? >> I I think it's certainly worth asking the question. We can reach out to our contacts at Duke and and see what options are available for us. I think at
this point we're not undergrounding or overheading. We're just kind of saying, can we do something with those pedestals that seem to be the weak link no matter what we do in these situations and can we spend the four there. But but in my in my mind, not the 1.4 that we've already budgeted. Pull that back. See if we can use the four in some way like
that. >> Understood. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, I appreciate it. >> That's good. >> Okay. Just for the record then uh staff direction is we will discontinue work on the undergrounding of phase 2a
and further make a re recommendation for the reallocation of the 1.4 million in 2026 during um the 2027 budget development process as well as the 2.8 that was previously plugged in for this project.
will make a different recommendation for you to consider and we will contact Duke as well as the county to see the feasibility to use the undergrounding funds to raise the current pedestals to mitigate flood risks.
>> I like it personally. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Uh city clerk, is there any other audience comments, please? Not on this specific. >> Okay. I think we're about to go an audience comment. >> Yes.
>> Tic in general. So, yes. Okay. Thank you, >> John Kersman. First, I'm glad >> this is about uh the beach. You can zoom in a little more if you could. Um, so I feel a little bit Groundhog Day, but of course in 2024 we had an event that has
distracted a lot of us. But in April 24 at beach stewardship I said hey beach steward and this I'm taking for myself because I can't I'm not representing beach stewardship here but I said hey we need to make sure that beach stewardship gets involved in decisions that they need to be involved with. You know it
says that we shall be involved in all sorts of things not even may we shall and it's not really happening. um things happen. And so the the next thing is one of the items was beach deeds and public rights of the beach because there had been a project that the city had previous administration previous
everyone to gather all the surveys and they were going to use those surveys to figure out what people what rights the the owners of properties had and what rights the public had. And we remember we realized back then surveys don't tell that story. Deeds tell that story. If
you're lucky then you even have to do more research. But surveys, they're not even in searcher vaults. They're not the official document that describes these things. And then lastly, just from from back then, I was saying, "Hey, fees and permits for businesses and construction on the beach. How come it's $20 for all
your beach chairs, but it's a per m machine cost for a laundromat. It's a per pool table cost for a pool pool." I'm not so sure. It's not even written that it should be per chair on these beaches on the beach chairs. And I don't
say that just to raise money for the city, but it's also because then if someone says, "Hey, I got to pay for each one of these," maybe they'll be a little hesit more hesitant to cover the beach with them. Um, so I want to thank you. U places where there used to be
poles on the outside of the apparent water line, now they're 40 to 50 feet off of the apparent water line when I pace them. So that was terrific. Um, job well done. Um, question I have though is we already had an ordinance that said
you only can have a beach sign in certain scenarios in certain parts of the beach and it even said the setbacks are 40 ft from the visible water line. So we had that ordinance. So right off the bat when people object and go, "What do you mean visible? It has to be the high water line." Well, come on. We've
already had this ordinance in place and it's based on visible. So it's not a dirty word. Um, what concerns me, and the reason I'm up here is because I heard that the sheriff is going to be collecting the surveys and using that in helping to determine
when to trespass someone. First off, I'm shocked because I was just at the beach stewardship meeting last week. And this wasn't even mentioned as as as a scenario on the table and already it's being implemented so or or partially implemented. So, it concerns me and I I think it should concern all of us
because it could disrupt customary use because once the city starts endorsing and allowing certain things, you're changing the whole ball game. This is this is like the cure is worse than the disease because a post is a post. But if now you're saying that the meaning of a certain location is we can that the the
property owner who's not even paying taxes on that part of the property can now start trespassing people, that just opens up a huge can of worms. So I I I'll send these to you, but this is the statute also that says that you have to have the right to reverse if it was there in 1987. A whole laundry list of
things. So just I'm asking you to be careful. Thank you. >> Thanks, sir. >> Mayor, can is that can we find out if that is accurate on the sheriff's using surveys?
So, we have had um a few property owners submit revised surveys to the county um tax assessor's office to have them updated as well as um the deed rights to their property.
They have uh personally asked for assistance from the sheriff's office in instances where they have had um individuals who have not left their private property when asked. And so the
sheriff has asked for us uh to well basically they have collected that specific information that they put in what they call a hot file. It's not a field file that they call it a hot file. And for that particular property, it has
that information in the sheriff's office uh dispatch folders. So if there is an incident that they can actually reference the documents to prove that it is private property and they can assist if needed. >> So this is not a
beach uh every property wide. This is a select few. Is that what I'm hearing? Or are they trying to do it beachwide? >> This has just been a as needed based on individual property owners. I know of three that have been involved specifically with the sheriff's office
on particular challenges on their private beaches. >> Thank you. >> Uh I'm sorry. I realize we normally don't do this, but uh I have a followup as well. I wonder if if uh you know we can whether it's us or uh or get the
sheriff's office to give us you know we're part of a bigger beach community. There's beaches you know there's seven or eight beaches you know straight up to clear water and you know uh so I'd love to understand where the beaches community kind of falls. You know where other communities
kind of uh enforce this don't enforce this. You know I' I'd hate to see St. beach be the standout one direction or the other? Like there's got to be some consensus for what Penllis County beaches typically, you know, behave. And
I I wonder if I don't know if he's if the sheriff's department is the best source for us to kind of understand, you know, where these kind of requests are coming or whether this is a city reach out and and find out. I just love to see where what our neighbors are doing, right? We don't have we don't have to solve everything ourselves. If we can
find better practices in our neighboring communities and I would I would love to see if we can just at least understand you know what the other communities are doing b the same topic. >> We can certainly reach out to sheriff's
office as well as uh we would some of some of the beach communities have their own private police >> department. So, yeah, >> but I could reach out to the sheriff and see based on their coverage area of the various beaches in Penllis County what they're
>> doing. Um, I know uh I don't know if you know, but the sheriff is also an attorney. >> Um, so he is, uh, very well verssed on, uh, Florida statute and Florida state laws. He's even been advising us on some of the wording in our own sign ordinances and giving us some ideas with
the city attorney when we bring back >> for the second reading. >> Um but I certainly will reach out to him and see if he's having I I he did mention today to me that he was having a similar issue in another beach northward. >> Yeah. >> So um and he was coming up with some solutions that might might work out. Um,
>> I'd love to find a common solution essentially, not not try to solve everything ourselves is my my general take on a lot of these things. >> We're not we're not on we are an island, but we're not an island, you know, with regards to things like this. So, let's choose our good neighbors. Commissioner Cy.
>> Yeah. I was um wondering if we have an agenda for the June 3rd uh community meeting relative to beach use or is there could we get a presentation from anyone like at the sheriff's department on how they handle
the problems in other cities for example relative to and and what um topics are we really planning to cover in that meeting because there seems like a lot of beach use issues to me and breaking them into different parts. I I
understand we're going to do that, but I'm not clear on exactly when we're going to do it and how we're going to limit the upcoming meeting, if at all. >> Actually, the upcoming meeting was limited to signs and working through some of the challenges of the current
ordinance that you have as first reading. If we want a broader beach use discussion, that would take some significant preparation from multiple disciplines. So we won't be prepared for that on June 3rd. We will be discussing some of the challenges with for example
as Mr. Kursman pointed out using language that is from the water visible water line versus 50 feet from the mean high water line. Those are those are things we're starting to vet through some of the feedback we're receiving from the commi community bringing that
forward to that meeting about that specific ordinance. I think it's so a little more complicated because the question is why does anyone want a sign on the beach? And I think you have to
understand the why behind that to be able to make a good decision on the signs. So, um, some of it seems to be from the feedback I've been getting from the property owners, it has to do with the alcohol policy that we have in our city ordinances. Some cities don't
have uh an alcohol ordinance for the beach. That might make a big big difference. And then uh some people h are located next to a very popular um establishment that brings people to our beach and uh
they use alcohol and and it influences the neighbors a lot more than it does in other places on the beach. So there's a handful of properties that have been very vocal to me and I've been trying to reach a solution with the sheriff. So I
feel like we need to accelerate the process on this if we feel like it's a a significant pain point which I'm I'm hearing. >> So you'll have your opportunity on June 9th which is the first reading of the
two of the three-part beach ordinance we're bringing forward. So, we're hoping to keep June 3rd very narrow around the 60-day time clock we have of whether you want to adopt a second reading and what changes you would make just on signs. And then June 9th, you have your first
reading on the beach ordinance related to uses on the beach on public versus private as well as the wildlife, turtle lighting, skimmer protections, all all animal protections. And so
you'll have I'm we're we're expecting some significant interaction and conversation. We've done quite a bit of engagement with um our beach stewardship committee as well as the planning board because there are some recommended zoning changes. So, I would encourage
you to encourage the public to come out for that meeting um as well because that's the broader beach discussion. That's where alcohol use is included or not is included in those um ordinances. >> Okay, that's great. Thank you.
>> You're welcome. Okay. Thank you. Interesting uh topic you brought up there, Mr. Kersman. Uh >> I do have one more public comment. >> Oh, we have I'm sorry. We do have Thank you. I Sorry. We have one more public comment. I apologize. Thank you, city clerk. >> Cameron Mazuchi.
>> Thank you. >> How you doing? >> Good. Good sir. How are you? >> Good. >> Yeah. I just wanted to >> Sir, I'm sorry. Could you get your name and address? >> Yeah. My name is Cameron Mizuchi. Uh 3307 West Maritana Drive over in the Donses neighborhood. >> Thanks, sir. Um, I can speak for several
people um that I've spoken to in our neighborhood. Um, you know, some you were talking about your experience with mangroves and your and how how you enjoyed them. My experience is different. I grew up uh going to my grandparents house which I now own. I bought from my family and we grew up
playing on the dock. Um, actually my kids were just under the dock yesterday playing with similar crabs, pulling them off the dock and playing with them and then putting them back or putting them in a new location. So I have an experience as well. It's different and I enjoy not having mangroves and I know
people have mangroves and it's a nuisance for them and they don't know how low they can trim them. Um they get bugs. Um they in one instance there's um mangroves that have grown up so far around the
seaw wall that needs to be fixed that uh the person I spoke to that was going to do the seaw wall said it would be $30,000 just to try to move the mangroves around to where they can get to the seaw wall. So we start thinking we can fix this
solution. And even in that gentleman's um comments, he mentioned something about, "Oh, well, there's coral that could grow and things like that." But he also said that could open up another can of worms and getting something in the future if you wanted a permit because now you have things that you can't
touch. So, I think um another thing he said that caught my attention was never really got to do a project like this. You know what? We already had a failed attempt at a project that's never been attempted in our spillways. I don't we don't need another, you know, another
project to be the first in line to try something. I personally that's not for me. Um and I can't help but to think that this thing has been spearheaded by someone who used to sit up here and they no longer sit up here because personally they didn't have good ideas and they
were voted out and this person in my opinion is seeking to get a free seaw wall at the expense of other people. Now, if this is just um you can choose to have this, okay, I would also suggest uh is your neighbor going to have a say if you put mangroves up or something
that brings in this this um these nuisance, are they going to have a say? Because I have a neighbor who wanted to build their property up, but the neighbor said, "Well, that's going to create shade at my pool, so I'm not going to give you a variance." So, I'm just I'm just wondering what other consequences are going to be down the
road. Um, and I don't want to sell out the whole neighborhood. And I don't know where this leads. Does this lead to everybody with a seaw wall is going to be forced to have mangroves or some other oyster beds? We play in that water on a regular basis. If there's oyster beds under my dock, there's like 3 ft of
water. Those things are razor blades and they carry a lot of bacteria. It's very dangerous. So, those aren't that not necessarily the best place for oyster beds. Oyster beds can be put all over the place. But, we need to think about, you know, nature's playground. and also
doing what's right. I mean, we know seaw walls work. Uh, can I just say one last thing >> quickly? Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Thanks. Um, a seaw wall is just like a roof. There's a a shelf life and we need to be responsible for that as homeowners. And I think every homeowner
I've talked to is fine with paying for a seaw wall. It's theirs. They know they have to upkeep it and that's that's just part of the process. So, we should look at it like that. >> Thanks, sir. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you for your feedback. I have no further audience comments.
>> Thank you, city clerk. Uh I think we move on to the consent agenda. Uh and I think we've already removed item D from this. Uh and so
is there a motion? >> I move to approve the consent agenda as amended. >> I second. Clerk, please. >> Vice Mayor Robinson, >> yes. >> Commissioner Cosy, >> yes. >> Commissioner Maldonado,
>> yes. >> Commissioner Marriott, >> yes. >> Mayor Tate, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Okay. Uh, we have a set of ordinances. City attorney, would you please read the ordinance? This is the final reading of
ordinance 2026-12, the fiscal year 2026 budget amendment. An ordinance of the city of St. Pete Beach, Florida providing for an amendment to the budget for fiscal year 2026 by increasing appropriations for expenditures in the general fund,
building fund, wastewater, reclaim water fund, storm water fund, and construction project fund. providing for codification, conflicts, severability, correction of scrivener's error, construction, publication, and effective date.
Thank you. Is there a staff report? >> Good evening. >> Good evening, Mayor Commission. Uh Devin Schmidt, finance director um for the city of St. Pete Beach. I don't have a staff report since we went through the presentation um at the last the first reading. So unless there's any questions
I can address um from you all. Um there's no changes to what was previously presented. >> Okay. Uh I don't there's any should I check and see if there's any audience comments or any questions that are associated with this? >> I have no audience comments.
>> Okay. Thank you. Any commissioner comments? >> Okay. Uh, is there a motion, please? >> Motion to adopt ordinance 2026-12. >> Second. >> Commissioner Cosy, >> yes. >> Commissioner Maldonado,
>> yes. >> Commissioner Marriott, >> yes. >> Vice Mayor Robinson, >> yes. >> And Mayor Tate, >> yes. >> The motion carries. >> Uh, I think our second ordinance on our agenda got waved earlier. And so, uh,
we do have an action item. Uh, and so is there a staff report on our action item, please? Or city manager report. Thank you. >> City commission. Um, introduce the item of the city clerk annual evaluation for the public's benefit and record. The
city clerk, city manager, and city attorney serve at the pleasure of the city commission and are considered charter officers. And um one of the special privileges we get is to have a public evaluation in state of Florida
under our sunshine laws. Um tonight is uh you're considering the annual evaluation for our city clerk Renee Rose. the city commission um approximately when I was hired established a process where the charter officers would um participate in a 360
evaluation which includes the commission a set of their peers which for um madame city clerk is the city directors as well as her direct reports. Um she also completed a self assessment
and um presented her goals for the upcoming year accomplishments from the last year as well as she submits a consideration for any amendments to her employment agreement. Um tonight she will do a small presentation verbal. Um
all of the materials are in the public in the public uh published agenda um as in compliance with uh Florida sunshine laws. And after her brief presentation, the commission may ask questions, have any conversation, comments, and then any
direction to changes to her employment agreement to the city attorney and myself in which we will take those back and bring any recommended changes from the commission to the next regularly scheduled meeting for consideration of adoption.
>> Thank you. >> Good evening, mayor and commission. Included in your packet is my annual performance evaluation materials, including the 360 evaluation summary and comments, self-evaluation, accomplishments, goals for the upcoming evaluation cycle, and compensation
information for your consideration. I appreciate the time and feedback provided through this process. Feedback received through the evaluation process reflected strong themes related to professionalism, responsiveness, organization, collaboration, and support provided to both the commission and staff. Constructive feedback included
continuing to improve delegation, measurable goal setting, and team development opportunities, which are reflected in the goals outlined for the next evaluation cycle. Included in the packet is a compensation information for consideration, including a salary survey of municipal clerks within Penllis County that was just recently updated in
January, historical compensation information for the position, and a compare a comparison table reflecting various adjustment scenarios. In addition to the proposed contract language regarding future COLA and merit eligibility consistent with general employees, I am respectfully requesting a consideration of a one-time
market-based salary adjustment based on the scope of the position and operational responsibilities of the city clerk's office and the feedback the evaluation feedback received through this process. >> Thank you. Uh, I know I'm going to turn it over in just a moment to the city commission,
but I I want to see if there's any public comment or any any any items received. City clerk. >> No public comment. >> Thank you. Uh, I will open up to city commission questions, please. >> Commissioner Cy, you won the race.
I I was just wondering if you could um which city seems to be the most similar um job busyness or or description that you have here in our city on the let's
see which page that was page 157 or 160 in the packet. >> I don't have the packet in front of me. I'm sorry. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, okay. So, um, it just tells all of the, uh, cities in Penllis County, mostly here, and shows the salary ranges, and I was wanted to get a
feel for what your opinion was on, uh, what's similar and what's not similar. I can't >> I don't know that I could speak to that without knowing their inner workings and how they're structured. >> Okay. Thank you. >> We did consider the population as well in each of those cities.
>> Yeah, I was looking at that. Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking for that. What page was it, please, sir? >> Um, >> 157. >> Right after appendix B. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Yeah, SC says 2025 clerk salary survey
on the agenda packet. Hot link. >> Thank you. That's not >> It's going to take me a moment to get there. I apologize. I'm going down. So, if anybody says a question, I'd happily entertain other questions while I'm looking to find it. I'm I'm scrolling and it keeps failing on me here. I apologize.
>> Okay, I'll ask. >> Commissioner Robinson. >> Um Renee, um yeah, you had put in uh based on the recent salary survey, um commission range from 108 to 112. I think that's where they're getting to what cities were you referring to or
where were you referring to but you didn't that was what you wrote >> right right and that was just based on an average of this the city's amount and population as well >> okay I I don't I don't know which ones you took because if I look at this I'm
looking at similar population similar CMC uh certification >> um I'm even looking at lower ities. I mean, I think I see a high, correct me if I'm wrong, everybody, at 100.
Um, no certification over at Treasure Island at 108. I mean, I'm I guess that would be the high 108 for Treasure Island. >> For which population are you looking at? >> I'm just looking at uh 65. I mean, I
could go if we're going strictly on that, you know, um um looking at there's nothing else that's really close other than Old Samara and Golfport that are close to 9,000. Everything else, you've got something lower than
that and and higher than those. Well, I please I just want to make sure I want to give you time. I don't if you had another question that that be it. >> Thank you, >> Commissioner Cy. Please. >> Um I was Could you clarify what MMC and
CMC and then I noticed for example in Bair Beach there's no certification. >> Um >> no there's not because I had the CMC there and I left. >> Oh, okay. Um neighborhood of place. Do you um so MMC is that a higher
certificate? >> Yes, it is. So we have an international institute of municipal clerks and so the MMC is a master municipal clerk. Okay. >> And the CMC is a certified municipal clerk. I earned my CMC um just prior to to coming to Florida and then I am
currently actively working on my MMC. >> Thank you, Commissioner Marriott, please. >> Sure. Thank you. Um, thanks Renee. I know this is super fun to do in public. >> Yeah. >> Comes with the territory. >> Yeah, exactly. Um, so I wanted to start by saying I I appreciate everything
you've done since you've been here. Um, you know, the city has has come off of a couple years of a lot of turmoil. Um, and I for one really appreciate the level of calm competence that you have created around you. Um, and and I I appreciate that you create that
atmosphere. um uh in in the clerk's office and and encourage it in the city. I think um and and I've told you this before, I think you're doing a great job. I um um you know, when we when we interviewed Renee um for for the position was that just a year ago,
um I uh uh uh she she said, "What do you what do you want to see in a clerk?" And I said, "Gosh, I would really love to see somebody who just can do their job and not have there be anything else happen besides them doing their job." And I think I think you've done exactly that. And so, um, uh, so I really
appreciate everything you've done for us. I think you're doing a fantastic job. I hope you stay for many, many years. Um, and, uh, I think it's fantastic when anybody negotiates for a better salary for themselves. um particularly when women do that because that's something that that historically
a lot of women don't do for themselves. And so um so I I applaud you for being willing to do that. Um for for me I would feel very comfortable in um uh at the on the very last page I think there's a or second to the last page there's a little chart with some
scenarios there with the um cost of living increase the cost of living plus the 2% merit and then you know the various percentage adjustments. Um I would be very comfortable in um in uh giving Renee the 10% adjustment um which
would be a little less than she asked for but more than she's getting now. Um, and so that's my opinion of that. >> Okay, >> Commissioner Maldonado. >> Uh, thank you. And, uh, Renee, thank you again for your service. Uh, without a doubt, you're punching above your
weight. Uh, we did a very lengthy interview. Got to really know the inner workings of the office, but also your aspirations and goals and how you're mentoring those that work for you. And that alone is weight uh, and gold. So, I would say that I'm at the 12%.
I do believe that you're underpaid. uh given your history and the experience that you bring from another city and then looking into the comparisons to the other ones it's very difficult. I do think that uh in this environment and this uh current economy that a 12%
adjustment is very fair. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh thank you. Uh question for you please. I I'm new so I didn't get a chance to interview you. I I I will say I I uh really enjoy working with you as well. I
I uh I found you even as I did your your uh your review and I I made note a few times that we haven't worked long enough for me to see your staff interaction, but but your interaction with me has been uh been wonderful and I appreciate, you know, all that you've helped me get, you know, my feet underneath me, not
only not only through the campaign and keeping me on on the straight and narrowed there, but uh but all the way through here and I appreciate it. Um, I do want to touch a little bit. Uh, I I'll give you a little background on why I'm asking this question. I I I personally come from the private sector and and I and I did a little research
and I I will tell you that you know in most in most cases um you know many private sector companies are are given 3 to 5%. I think I think you're punching above that. Don't me wrong, I just that's my first statement, right? And I think they they generally reserve the the higher numbers for people that are
that are uh that are aspiring, you know, uh to advance their careers and and and are uh to Commissioner Maldonado statement again punching above your weight. So, I want to explore a little bit your your uh I don't know what it's called. Is it MCM MMC? >> MMC >> MMC versus you're currently a CMC
>> and you're pursuing an MMC. Um, can you tell me how that's going and and how much time you have left and and where you where your you know aspirations on finishing and those kind of things? Just tell me about your your training. >> It does take about four years to get up to the MMC level. I did unfortunately
have a setback when I was at Bair Beach because there wasn't an opportunity to go to trainings as much as I would have preferred. Sorry to hear that. >> So I I am kind of a little bit behind, but I am doing everything that I can to get that as accelerated as I can. Do you know when you expect to finish the program or do you have a do you have a goal in mind?
>> My goal would probably be two years. >> Okay. So, you're halfway through it feels like. I >> I believe so. I'd have to go back and look at my certification numbers. I >> I'll just I'll just tell you I again in my private industry career, you know, uh
10 12% raise are usually usually elevated for someone that's getting a promotion in this case going from a CMC to to an MMC. I frankly would love to see us certainly you're doing you deserve a race. Let's be clear with you. Um but but maybe somewhere meet in the middle that that then we get you where
you want to be with the MMC, you know, plus a cost of living at that point if it's two years out, but kind of gets you uh more market where we are now and then assuming you have the aspiration of finishing up the MMC, you'll become more valuable to the city even beyond beyond where you are right now. And so that's
kind of where I'm just mentally kind of thinking. Um, but I'll I'll echo Commissioner Marriott's comment. I I I I wouldn't want to be sitting negotiating my public salary in front of everybody. So I I applaud you even for that. So thank you very much. And I'll just kind
of hold until I can get some other feedback. >> Sure. >> Thank you, Mr. Robinson. I as well come from the private sector and it's cola plus really right now these days is about 2%. Because the state of the economy unfortunately that
is you know low although um the cola has increased a little bit. Um I as well feel that a 12% is high for a first year um with without the MMC or any sort of
upward movement. I know that the I had asked about the prior clerk salary and her ending was after five years of employment. So you've got the colas, you got the merits on top of that, etc., etc. Um, I would be, you know, looking at maybe
something, um, I guess it actually comes out a little lower. Maybe the, uh, you know, a cola plus plus even maybe a three, which I think comes out to about the 8%. Um, or couldn't come out to the 8%, but that
like a 6% on that three and the three. Um that's again I I have to state that our city is in a you know we're still in gray skies. Um we're not in blue skies yet financially
and um that you know 12% is a big jump for first year. >> Mr. causing. >> I would like to tell you that my old CEO, he always told us that I know that you would do this job for free because
it was so much fun. And there was almost never any kind of cost of living adjustments, but uh we would do contracts three or plus years. And so you end up getting behind and then you catch up at
the end of several years. but it seems bad while you're waiting and you're feel feeling underpaid. Um, I would lean more towards an adjustment rather than a cost of living. And maybe that's just because of my background.
Um, and I'm not sure what's appropriate on cost of living anyway. It seems like it's outrageous. So, um I would be somewhere around the eight or 10% adjustment at this point and we'd be really excited to um see
what we could do uh when you go to the MMC level. >> Thank you, Commissioner Maldonado. >> Okay. So, I started with the Santa Claus at 12%. I'm willing to come down to the 10%. Uh the difference between eight and 10 is approximately$16
$166 a month. So I think that if we're splitting hairs, I'll split them with you. I'll see your 10 and keep it there. So look, I I I would I think I can support that. I I think for me, I'm I'm excited that you're on the MMC path, which means
you're you're wanting to uh you're wanting to grow hopefully and stay with the city of St. Pete Peach. We'd love to have you. um and you're advancing your career. You're not, you know, to me uh yes, you want to be commensurate with your peers around you, but but the reason you do that from a from a
management perspective again in the private sector is because you see somebody really looking to advance their career and looking to uh to to to frankly provide more value to the city as their as their skill set grows. So, I would support a 10 as well, frankly. >> Do we need to do anything official? I
just need direction. But >> well, they'll vote on it when we bring it. But I want to restate what I think I heard, >> unless you want to vote. >> No, you go ahead. >> Okay. So, I heard the majority supports a 10% one-time adjustment, and I just want to
confirm um I heard Commissioner Marriott say plus the contract lang language provided for there wasn't further discussion about that, which was to align uh future CPIs and um
and we have a merit increase built into that for fiscal year 27. Right. So the one time the onetime adjustment would be 10% and then going forward would be the cost of living adjustment plus merit if warranted like
>> and dependent on what was provided all other employees. >> Right. >> Thank you. >> Can you state that last? Dependent on >> So the merit is largely dependent on the city manager and designing those
systems. we have and we bring those through the budget process. So if the commission were to approve a compensation package during the budget process, essentially what you're saying is it applies to the city clerk as well. So
for example, if and we we apply cost of living in October of every year based on the budget cycle. So you'll be seeing those numbers s soon. So if the cost of living, we use the May numbers because we have that number to actually give you
a real life budgetary impact. This contract language would essentially allow me to process a cost of living adjustment for her at the same time, which would be October of this year. And then for fiscal year 26, we implemented
a uh merit-based uh system that could give um up one or 2% basically merit pay for fiscal year 26. Um, we'll be proposing that same exact meritbased system for 27 and then hope
to phase it out as my new HR director looks at our compensation system as a whole because there are still some adjustments and fixes that need to be made despite the implementation of the pay plan that happened upon my arrival.
So, um I'm going to be using her expertise, um to link that to performance management and advancement in any sort of pay scale that exists in the city right now that we don't really have that structure in place. So,
that's the plan. Essentially, with all that, you would be aligning the city clerk with with whatever the city manager is putting in place through the budget process. so I wouldn't have to come back for a separate contract amendment for the city clerk every time we did some sort of
cost of living adjustment. >> And then her future performance evaluations would simply be asking for performance pay, not necessarily market adjustments or cost of living, unless the market somehow went wacky. And she
comes back and says, "Now city clerks are getting paid $200,000 a year." I'm just throwing that out there. I'm going for my CMC >> and then the you know the market drives the discussion but she would have those discussions separate with you.
>> Understood. Okay. Thank you. >> So that's reflected in the second amendment that's attached to your packet that language. And then to make sure we're all on the same page, the percentage would be 107217 would be the number we fill in that blank.
>> Mhm. >> In section 1.2. So we'll put that number in and then we'll bring this back to you and put it on consent agenda at the next meeting. >> Okay. Just need >> looking forward to the city manager's
review next. I guess >> be very exciting. Yes, >> these are fun things. I'm sorry that you have to do this. I really am. I some of these sunshine laws I I like shake my head at it sometimes, but uh I'm Thank you for for indulging us through this. I wish we could have done this in a more informal, >> right,
>> forum. So, >> well, we do need a motion. >> Okay. Uh do I have a motion, please? Um, yes. So, city attorney, you can help me. The motion is
what do we need a motion now? Because we would make a motion when the contract comes back to us, right? >> You can make a motion later, but the the consensus is for 10%. Which is 107217. >> Yeah. >> Be filled in section 1.2 of the draft second amendment. And then we'll bring
that back to you on consent agenda for a vote. Can I ask for for for poor Rene's sake, does this have to come back to us a second time or I feel like we're here. Do we have to do it twice and have this? >> You want to fill it in tonight and you're comfortable with it and you've got the second addendum, then we can >> I would hate to personally be dragged
through this twice publicly, but uh if if you know, so I would tell you I would I for her favor I'd soon wrap it up. >> The motion will be to fill in the blank at 107217. $100,7 $17,000 $217.
>> Okay. Well, I'll make a motion that we adjust the pay for the city clerk. Uh Renee, a 10% adjustment. That's 107217. >> Ralph, you also want to include the language about the cola and merit in the future. >> That's already in there. It says um
employees base salary shall be increased as of September 28th, 2026 to match any increase granted for the cost of living adjustments per cola at the same cola percentage increase as the general and management employees. Beginning fiscal
year 2026-2027 and continuing thereafter during the term of the agreement, employees shall be eligible to receive annual cost of living adjustment, COLA percentage increases and merit-based compensation adjustments on the same basis as those
approved for general employees subject to satisfactory performance evaluations and approval by the city commission. >> Okay, I second. >> Okay, Commissioner Maldonado. Yes. >> Commissioner Marriott. >> Yes. >> Vice Mayor Robinson. >> No.
>> Uh, Commissioner Cy. >> Yes. >> And Mayor Tate, >> yes. >> Motion carries. >> Okay. Uh, thank you. Um, let's see. Items for discussion. Um, I think we had uh Commissioner Robinson had an item for discussion.
I I believe we all received the same email chain from um Danielle uh regarding her fines on the beach regarding shark fishing and the dangers that that does leave behind and uh
safety concerns for people that walk the beach, the lines that are left and also the fact that uh other cities have as well issued uh bans on the shark fishing on the I don't know
about the chumming offshore if that is indeed happening. Um but there was mention of that as well which would bring concerns of bringing any sort of um predators closer inland than
necessary than would be normal. Um I just wanted to bring this up because I feel that there are concerns when we do fish off of peers. There are things that you can put your your monofilament in. You can, you know, dispose of your lines, things to that effect. But when
we have blatant disregard and being left out on the beach for, you know, young children that come on the week or weekends, um, or just adults, any of us that walk the beach and there are people that walk in the beach very early in the
mornings and won't be able to see that. I just have concerns, safety concerns on that and want to see if what the rest of the commission felt if we should consider any sort of uh ban or limitation or anything to that effect.
>> Commissioner Maldonado. >> So, interestingly enough, I had this conversation with the city attorney and city manager earlier today. Um, I personally witnessed a fisherman uh doing shorebased
shark fishing at Pasigril in a very very crowded environment this weekend. I actually hooked a uh tourist. Luckily, uh it was his shorts and not his skin, >> but just continued to reel it in like no regard for the person that he had
hooked. Uh and then at the very end of it, left the chum there, just threw the chum back into the water. And my thought was, what if he did catch a shark? How do you release that thing? You know, missed uh hundreds of people swimming around in waist deep water. Uh the other
thing is that he was using a large drone, a very large drone. If that thing uh were to lose control, you know, either on the sand or overwater, it could cause uh problems to people. I will say that Treasure Island has banned shorebay shark fishing. Indian Shores
has banned uh shorebased shark fishing and Readington Shores has banned shorebased shark fishing. It seems to be something that our neighbors are doing and out of safety concerns, but more importantly, I think that the other thing that needs
to be considered or discussed is how we're training these sharks to react. Are we encouraging them to not follow their normal patterns and routines? Are we encouraging them to come closer to shore and come in contact with people? Sharks are normally not aggressive and
not dangerous. I want to dispel any uh notion that they're dangerous on their own normally unless provoked. Uh most bites are accidental. You know, when that happens between humans and and sharks, the shark quickly realizes it's not its prey that it was going over. But
I am concerned with the u stuff that u folks are leaving behind that people pick up when they're out there cleaning up our shores. Uh but to see this happen in a very crowded environment and have no regard whatsoever for tourists and
residents. Shame on that person. I mean absolutely shameful. That's how I feel about that. >> Thank you, Mr. Mario. >> Sure. So, I think that um that I think we already have in our
ordinances um some prohibitions against fishing near people who are swimming. Um and I I think we potentially just need to look at ways to enforce that. Um
I think that I mean I I know that that some of our neighbors to the north have uh instituted shark fishing bans from the shore. Um, I do know also that recently in Marco Island they um were looking at passing an ordinance to ban shark fishing and um
uh backed off of that idea when Florida Fish and Wildlife came in and said we're going to back the guys who want to fish for sharks from the shore because it's a constitutionally protected activity. Um,
so I'm not sure, you know, I'm not I'm not sure how much we want to get into trying to pass an ordinance that maybe wouldn't be defensible. I don't know if the city attorney knows anything about what happened in Marco Island or anything that um that's going on there. Um, and
and I I would be much more interested if and if there's anything we can do to ban chumming more so than fishing from shore, which you know, beach beach fishing is um I think enshrined in the Florida Constitution, fishing from the beach. And I don't know that we can um
although some cities have uh passed ordinances against it, I'm not you know that that it may just be that they haven't been challenged. Um, but I would be much more interested in in banning the part that's truly dangerous, which would be the chumming close to shore.
>> U, you know, I think for me it's uh I'm I'm horrified that someone continues to reel their their their poll in after they hopefully didn't realize that they caught somebody, you know, but if they did, I mean, truly shame on them. I kind of neighbor are you. Um, I'm frankly
interested in in what Commissioner Marriott said about whether there's already legalities. I feel like we get into this all the time. I I think some of these things are, you know, some of these decisions that we go back and forth on are fairly you can find 45% of the people on either side of it. I don't think there's a huge percentage of
people that are saying they they want shark fishing off our beaches. uh especially not chumming to your point, but I would love to hear the the legalities of it if if uh city attorney, you have some guidance for us that might uh that might help us. I certainly, you know, I don't I don't I don't think it's
a high demand thing to go out and shark fish off St. be beach, but I know it happens and I and I can imagine if we went down the path that said we we ban it, whether it's constitutionally preempted already and or uh but chumming may not be. I'd love I'd love to get some guidance on where we might be able
to limit our exposure here. Um because I also wonder, you know, uh chumming occurs or or sharks don't get caught or whatever it is and and a swimmer gets hurt, you know, but yet we allowed this or we increasing our liability as a city
by by allowing it. So I'd love to get the the liability kind of aspect of it and what we could do within our um within our purvey that doesn't get preempted elsewhere. >> Okay. I think the consensus is for me to put
together a memorandum of law with supporting uh documents and bring that back to you, which I'll do. >> It's a nice restatement. >> Thank you. >> I've dealt with this with a couple different cities already, so I've got a good head start on it. >> All right. All right.
Just uh to be a broken record, um the upcoming beach ordinance has a proposal that chumming the water when fishing for any species from the beach or when weighed fishing in waters
adjacent to the beach is prohibited. and disposing of any carcasses obtained by fishing other than when following best practices of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission. So, good news.
Ralph should be ready for uh a liability discussion at the beach ordinance um first reading on June 9th. Okay. And if you would like to add something or expand, that will be your opportunity uh to do
so in that first reading presentation. So, >> yeah, thank you. I mean, I I think I'm I'm intrigued by what Commissioner Marriott said with with regards to chumming and drawing the you know, I won't say predators, that's the wrong word, but but drawing the animals in, right? uh and uh you know
how we can mitigate without without directly overtly uh going against fishing from the beach is kind of a common use. So >> I I'd like to also add the uh drone portion to the discussion whether that
requires licensing and what prohibitions over city- owned property we have. Okay. Thank you. I I think we've got direction on that. Um so now we're looking for uh for reports, please. City clerk, do you have anything to report?
>> I just want to reminded officials and applicable staff that form one statements of financial interest are due by July 1st, 2026 and must be filed electronically the state's EFDMS system. Emails from the Florida Commission on Ethics will be sent in the coming weeks.
Elected officials are also annual requirements to complete a 4hour ethics training. The Florida League of Cities is offering a webinar training opportunity on July 15th and Madira Beach is actually hosting an inerson viewing option for those interested. Information on both options was recently distributed by
>> Thank you, city manager. >> Yes. Um, I'm pleased to announce and hopeful that I've been advised by Representative Cheney as well as our state legislature that um, we have a few
uh, requests earmarks to the state that have progressed to the governor's desk for signature, which means they have made it completely through the budget process. Those currently are a $1.5 million additional earmark for fire station 22, a $2 million earmark for
pass wastewater um lift station repair um and and renovation and a $1.825 million uh earmark for Bokea Drive. So, uh, fingers crossed and our, uh, representatives are up in Tallahassee
working diligently to try to keep these alive and if once I find out, I will definitely report it, um, to you all and the public. Thank you. >> Thank you. That's good news. Thank you very much, city attorney, please. >> Nothing further. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> District 4, sir. >> Again, thank you to uh to you, mayor, uh, for attending our community meeting. was very well attended and we really enjoyed uh just getting to know you a little bit better to hearing your uh vision and your way forward for St. Pete Beach. So, thank you.
>> Thank you, >> Commissioner Cy, please. >> Nothing to add, >> Commissioner Robinson. >> Just want to say thank you to Fire Ops. I attended the Fire Ops 101. Um and it is a difficult job. Not that I didn't already know that,
>> but uh suiting in the gear, putting it all on, trying to uh uh huff up a a flight of stairs with all the gear in and the tank on the back was was interesting to say the least. So, um uh thank you to everybody for that. Um and
it was nice to hang out with Jod from HR, so that she was there as well. Um, also wanted to mention this Thursday, May 28th, there is an open, it's district 2, but uh it's open to everybody for uh discussing historic
designation. Um, it is important to reconsider that as an option for those that haven't um yet elevated or are on the fence about elevating. Um, it is a good option to do. It's free. I'd like
everybody to come out here, hear about what you can do if you historically designate your home, especially in light of the 2025 FEMA letter that's out there now for the wind mitigation letter. Uh that is roughly 50% of what your
valuation was before. Um so this will add value if you historically designate your home, it adds value to both the community and potentially to your home. uh for it. If you decide there's not a storm, but you can't sweat it out,
you're doing the prayer plan, praying that nothing happens and you just can't do it anymore and you're looking to sell uh historically designating your home might help to add a little extra value to that as well. Uh so something to
consider across the board um in the community. So that's this Thursday, May 28th. It's really more of a workshop from 6:00 to 7:30 p.m. And then I I wanted to mention I do have my library hours. I'm doing a monthly 5 to 5:45
p.m. Looking at uh the first of every month, the first Monday of every month. Uh there are two exceptions that will be July in July. Uh it'll be July 8th. It's a Wednesday, so it's the first Wednesday of the month. And then it'll be
September 14th. It is a Monday, but the first Monday is uh Labor Day, so I don't think anybody wants to show up for that. Uh so uh move that date to September 14th and hope to see everybody there. >> Thank you, Commissioner Marian.
>> Thanks. Um uh a quick thank you to the sheriff's office for um thoroughly investigating an issue we had in district one of um uh some not very nice contractor dumping debris
on vacant lots and lots that have new construction happening. Um, and so if you are living in your neighborhood and you have vacant lots near you, um, please keep your eyes open and, uh, pay attention to what's going on and try to try to know your neighbors and help your neighbors. So hopefully we won't have
any more of that happening again. Um, and also um, thank you to everybody who was at the beach this weekend on Memorial Day weekend. It was a beautiful weekend and the beach was pretty crowded, although not the most packed I've ever seen it, but it was also packed full of largely families having a
fantastic time on the beach and there was I heard of no drama on the beach and it was just lovely and full of people having a great time and getting along with everybody and having a wonderful weekend. So, thanks to everybody who came to the beach this weekend. >> Yeah, thank you. I'll uh I'll echo as
well. I know uh it was Memorial Day weekend. I come from a military family. I I appreciate everybody. I appreciate the cities uh you know making a note of of uh not only we celebrating and enjoying the beach but uh why we're why we have Memorial Day in the first place. Uh so thank you to all who uh who uh who
observed and uh and I know we've got uh we've got some interesting things coming up. This is a really 250th year of our country. So I know there's some really great plans coming up for our uh Fourth of July event and uh and other things. So, I look forward to to more of these community events and and and kind of
building our community all the opportunities we can to smile uh is what I'm looking forward to seeing. So, let's let's go have some fun while we do important work. So, thank you. Uh with that, uh there being no further business, we are adjourned. Thank you.