Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>> Roll call, please. Member Thompson >> here. >> Member Looney >> here. >> Member Rothenberger >> here. >> Chair Stevens here. We have a quorum. >> Great. So, we are here for to review the proposed marine lighting ordinance. Um, as this
is a special meeting, we will only be discussing that topic. I'm going to open it up to audience comment. Seeing none, we'll move forward. Item four, we'll go to um item A or the
item for discussion is the ordinance. Brandon, do we want to um just do what we did in the last time and just go section by section? >> That works for me if it does for the >> very effective last time. >> Okay, so we'll start with the ordinance.
Uh this is the markedup ordinance. We also have a copy of the clean ordinance. Brandon Barry, by the way, uh, senior planner with the city. Um, I wanted to start at the very top to talk about the division title. Um, I failed to include this, but
I'm suggesting that we change it to wildlife friendly lighting or something of that nature. Um, dark windows help the birds. There are other, you know, and that's more in line with the state's language. So, um I'll think of a a change in the division title, but is is the board or the committee amendable to
that? >> Yes. Okay. Actually, it was one of my comments. >> Beat me to it. >> Very good. All right. I will start working through the sections. Um no change in the purpose and intent. Um but there is language I
think that we can add to make that broader and more inclusive of other wildlife. there is a purpose and intent that I'll send out to the committee from the state's uh wildlife lighting ordinance that um we can we can include. >> One question I have just as we getting
into it is uh and never assume I I believe you guys have as you've gone through this thought about enforcability and holding up in court. I know that there's some technical things and we've heard from different different uh
sources that you need to make sure that one it's enforceable and two the standards. >> One of one of the first things we did was have our code enforcement department look this over and they'll be involved throughout the process. Um but they did make a few comments that have made
enforcability a little bit, you know, easier on their side, but they they have reviewed this ordinance and >> Thank you. >> Thank you. All right, working down through definitions. Most of these are definitions directly out of the state model lighting ordinance. Um, certified
wildlife lighting. The state maintains a repository of approved products. We are just um relaying that we do have a process where they can independently certify their own fixtures. there have been fixtures, bulbs, other um
installations that haven't necessarily been certified by the state. Um but if they have an alternative certification, they can submit that as well. Uh construction, we're deferring to the meaning of division 2 and I I will get into a little bit of detail on this. I think this might be one of the most
important parts of the ordinance. I would like to talk through with the committee. Uh we've made updates to cumulatively illuminated directly visible. That's of course direct source of lighting from a bulb or a direct cast source of light.
So a source of light shining on a wall for example that would be a direct source. An indirect source would be when it bounces off one surface and is still visible from another. Uh you see that a lot especially when there's harsh uplighting on on white buildings.
generally they tend to they tend to bounce and it you have an a secondary source of of illumination which would be indirectly illuminated. Um existing beachfront lighting and then um new beachfront lighting, new construction is something we'll get into
in a later section of this division for full cutoff. This is something we don't currently have in our ordinance. It's something that the state recommends that we include. It's not just having a sconce or another cover on a light bulb. It's actually an
orientation. The lighting is oriented so that there is no lighting above 90 degrees. Um it's it's a a sconce that is that is uh full enough to provide that that lack of um light source above 90°. They recommended we take out illuminated
because we use the terms indirectly and um directly illuminated throughout our ordinance. We use the state's definition. I'm proposing to include the state's definition for long wavelength. Um that's a wavelength of 560 nmters or greater absent wavelengths below 560
nmters. Um there are older bulb types that we are removing from the ordinance. They're not appropriate. We refer to wavelength instead of bug type. um other types that could be greater than 560 or
sorry uh less than 560 nanometers. And then new coastal construction. Again, I want to get into a little bit more detail on this in the section that refers to this definition. Again, removing bulbs that are no longer referred to directly. Talk about what a
shielding element is. Tinted glass. Um, this is actually a standard that we are proposing that is stricter than the current model lighting ordinance. The current model lighting ordinance through the state recommends 45% BLT or less. Um, there was research that
the state supported earlier this year that showed that 30% or less is what really moves the needle on false crawls and and um, you know, additional issues with turtles. So, we're proposing to update it to 30% at the recommendation of the Sea Turtle Conservancy.
And then transient lighting are those fixtures that are not permanently a fix. They're not interior room lighting. Those are fixtures that might be involved with a special event. They're a temporary setup. They're not something that a lodging facility or a condo or another beachfront residence or business
is going to have permanently installed, but it refers to those special event lighting, which I'll go into more detail later on in this ordinance. Take out again true neon up light which is better defined through full cut off and then visible from the beach. Um and that's
just to state that if we're not defining it as directly or indirectly visible or illuminated um it's inclusive of both. Any comments or thoughts on the definition section? >> I had two.
One is and I hope I'm saying this right. Ballards the And one thing I've seen, I don't know where it's would it be covered there or someplace else. Um, as I walk, especially at sunset at night, I've
actually noticed those little solar lights you can paint on paths to light up the paths. And I know they're not turtle lights, but
they're in the dunes. Is that something one, if they were turtle lights, do we allow people to plop things in the dune to um allow lighting? Um and two, where
should it be in the other beach ordinance that we're not talking about or should it be here? >> That's a good point and I I spoke to the state about this. I I don't remember if a later section references distinctions between lighting landward and seawword of the frontal dune, but the state's
recommendation is typically that any lighting waterward of the dune or that there be no lighting waterward of the dune period during during turtle season. Um we'll see if that's in a later section, but if not, that's something we can address. >> Frontal dune or they I've seen it go all
the way through to private property. Okay. >> So, my Could you um think about that just where should it be >> or should it not be? >> I'm not a >> We had those before the storm on our
path. Thought about it because they sit so low to the ground. You just >> Right. >> Yeah. But yeah, >> as you walk, as I've walked and I, you know, kind of happened to look east, I looked up and I'm like, "Wow, I see >> the place I'm thinking about wasn't just
one." >> Okay. >> It was all >> You're talking about the the stake in the ground, dollar store, solar light. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. There's 20 of them down path. >> Yep. >> They put it out for a party and it stays there for three weeks. >> Stays there all year. >> All the time. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's a good point.
So I've I've seen that and I actually know of a place where it's there. So >> very good. >> Um I don't if you could think about where that should go. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> The other question in definitions was
motorized vehicles. Um in the other in other ordinances we have motorized vehicles in the in the beach other beach ordinance we worked on. The definitions don't match. I don't know if that matters or not, but just something. Should they match?
>> They they probably should for the purpose we're going to be using it. Um so we'll look at that. And if for whatever reason this definition is more inclusive, um we will keep this in. If it's less inclusive, we'll defer to the ordinance and the the
>> I'll let you whatever is most appropriate just for consistency. Thank you. That's all I had for definitions. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, moving on. Section 44.3. The state requests that we
identify through the ordinance responsible department that is our code enforcement department. Section 44.4. Um, this is what is actually submitted to us to certify that new coastal construction is compliant with the
wildlife friendly lighting ordinance. We require that a statement for the construction um be submitted. And I will say as we work through permits for some of the new developments going on, Tradewinds has made some improvements at the back. Um, the Sarata is going through a restaurant and kitchen remodel
at the back of their site. The Myiramar is building a new um lodging tower. There have been no issues whatsoever with getting this information from the applicants. This is really just a check sheet for staff for the applicants so they know from stage one what what needs to be submitted.
Product specification andor plan references to the certification numbers when they have been provided. The uh Fish and Wildlife Commission maintains a list. It's very easy to just reference that we're using these sconces, we're using these bulbs. Um, for those that do
not have that information, they need to give us sufficient certification that they have been deemed to be um full cut off, long wavelength, shielded and and so on. We do require an inspection prior to certificate of occupancy for new coastal
construction. That would be anything visible from the beach. The code enforcement department reserves the right to schedule an inspection. Again, this has not been an issue at all with any of our applicants. It's just codifying it so that we can reference it moving forward. Um, and that would be an inspection for any new construction that
does not utilize the bulbs with that have been certified by the state. That is an automatic requirement for an inspection just to make sure that they they meet the nanometer requirements. And then we do later on um talk about what constitutes existing beachfront
lighting um when they've been modified to comply with that section. We just ask for certification numbers or a reference at that time. Any concerns with any of that? Okay. So I consider this section to probably
be the most important of the ordinance. So I want to I want to go into a little bit of detail on it and this is CL classification of new coastal construction and existing lighting. So the state has a definition for I'm sorry they have standards for construction but they do not have an independent
definition of construction and construction is defined slightly different in our land development code than it's defined in the Florida building code. What we are proposing to constitute new coastal construction. So that would be full compliance with the ordinance.
Is any construction of any new building structure or accessory structure where any new exterior or interior light source is visible from the beach. If they're building a new building, a new structure, a new outdoor bar or something like that, anything attached to that structure or interior to the
structure needs to be compliant with this ordinance. if they're redeveloping either a structure in whole or a part, um any source that is reestablished on that redeveloped portion of that building would need to be compliant with the new coastal construction standards.
>> So if I'm a I'm a owner and I expand, does that mean everything now has to be >> correct or even a partial reconstruction of a building? Um, for example, this was not associated with the storm, but the trade winds enclosed a portion of the
rear of the Breen Ridge where they made what was previously an open arcade type area into an enclosed space. That space was made compliant with the new coastal construction standards in in our code. So, we would include something like that. Even just a reconstruction or an alteration of that space would be new
coastal construction. Is it just that section, not the whole? >> Excellent question >> as proposed. Yes. >> Okay. >> So, there's no there's no wiping there. There's no elimination of grandfathering of non-conforming lighting. >> Well, I wanted I wanted to talk through
that, but as as drafted, no. And um this was written a certain way and I want to get into that with the committee, but and and what I think what we're talking about there is the remodeling or repair section, which is subsection three. Any remodel or repair or addition to any
building which introduces a new or replaces an existing exterior light source creates a new opening which exposes an interior light source to be visible from the beach. Widens an existing opening from which a new or
exterior interior or existing interior light source is visible from the beach. constitutes a substantial improvement to the building or structure or exchanges a window or door within an existing opening for the other from which an interior light source is visible from
the beach. So this whole sub section could be collapsed into anytime a window or light fixture is exchanged it needs to be compliant with the new construction standard. We we can go that direction. Some of the initial feedback we received
and the reason why this was drafted the way that it was was that if one window is being exchanged, that is a repair under the Florida building code. It's not a level two alteration or a level three, which is what you have when you're taking out a window and putting
in a door or widening an opening. That would be an actual alteration to the building. A one forone exchange of one window would just be considered a repair. So, it wouldn't fall under an alteration. The concern that was expressed to us um whether or not that's something the
committee you know accounts for under under this um under the section or not is that changing out one window especially with a 30% or less visible light transmittance window when the rest of the windows are not compliant with that it it looks strange viewed from the
exterior. it is much darker than a window with just standard glazing without any visible light transmittance um reduction within it. We have the ability to write this much more simply and say if a windows being included in a
new addition, any kind of reconstruction or if it's simply being swapped out one for one, it needs to meet the 30% BLT requirement. But I drafted this just to open that discussion and see if that's something that the committee is is open to considering or whether we should just
make it as strict as possible. Any any replacement needs to comply. >> Incentives would be nice if there was a way to incentivize becoming compliant if it wasn't a requirement. >> Okay. >> I do know living on the island that anytime you replace any glass, it has to
be hurricane proof and it is so expensive. So, it's not something they're just going to, you know, if they're doing it, that's the time to make it compliant, but if we can't enforce it, it would be nice to incentivize it in some way. >> I don't know. >> And I think we could enforce it. I I
spoke with a building official this morning, and if we had that standard in our code, every single window permit that comes in for a structure in line of sight at the beach, it would be required to show that they're installing a turtle friendly window, wildlife friendly window. Um, but
>> because couldn't they find a film for the other windows that would closely match the new one or >> they could and we brought this up, this discussion occurred with the Tradewinds project when that moved few uh through a few years ago. Tradewinds is obviously a very um expansive property. They have a
lot of windows to um bring up to code, but they had mentioned that installing that film is is millions of dollars. um with a with a smaller condo obviously that's a you know much lesser expense but it could be in the high five to low six figures for the average building.
So, um I I will >> about it is a you have a condo and in their bylaws, each unit is responsible for their own windows
and one unit is having an issue and replaces their windows. Does that force all the other unit owners to put up film or replace their windows? Is that >> Am I paraphrasing the question
correctly? >> Yes. >> I don't know how you >> Well, my thought was if they wanted them to look the same, maybe the film would be an option. But if they don't care if they don't match, like if it's condo units, I mean, >> maybe they do require them to match. I don't know. >> Our condo, you have to when you're
replaced, there's >> everyone has identical Yeah. brand and >> style window. I just can you force if then I could if I had my unit and I live in a building with five units. I'm
having a water problem. I need a new window but my other unit owners won't agree to replace. Am I stuck with a leaky window? >> And we could make it specific to the unit or just the window being replaced. not necessarily make the whole
>> see my because in in a perfect row and everyone you know when that happens everyone replaces their windows at the same time but that doesn't that's not going to happen. >> Maybe they need to become more flexible the condo facility on how matchy matchy we are.
>> If you're if you're going compliant and the others aren't then eventually they have to all come to that same compliance. But >> typically there's a compliance with laws provision too that if you were replacing a window and it's required to have film that you put the film on the Anderson
window if Anderson doesn't have a tinted glass. We've left an option so that you could use film on the inside. >> I was talking about the other unit owners. >> Yeah to go through the >> do I have to pay for their film? >> Whatever you want to write. So if you
want to write just that window has to be compliant. you can write that into the ordinance here. >> Um because when we did windows and our the reason I know this when we did windows we actually and got our permit we had to
show that they were turtle glass to the appropriate standard and then when we had our inspection they came out and did that. Now four of the five of our units did at the same time. Um, I'm just having
this discussion is how do we how do we think about this for hotels and condos and houses? >> If you take away the new construction aspect of it
and there's a non-conforming light behind a window somewhere, what do we do currently? So typically the requirement well for existing lighting they have the option to simply move the light out of the window or install lines or you know
shutters. Um that's that's an option for existing lighting in both the state model code and and ours. We've had some um code enforcement the last few weeks that were bars were shining out in into the beach and so the to lower shades.
I'm just wondering if there's anything that we can use from that to this. Well, we we could certainly make all replacement windows comply with the 30% VLT standard if that's what the commission ultimately adopts. Um, just
keep it at that, not necessarily apply to every window on the building. And then for those who are concerned about consistency in the exterior look, they can just do it all at the same time. So if if you have a house on the beach, the storm comes through and knocks out one
of your five windows, you have to replace the one that's knocked out. You're going to have to put in the modern window. The other five, the other four, you don't do anything with, right?
>> If if that's the only replacement being made. Yes. So that's the way we handle it for residential. >> Correct. >> I think if you don't Yeah. If you don't force compliance, it I mean, unless there's an incentive, it won't happen. >> Yeah. I like the incentive aspect of it.
>> I don't know what you Yeah. I don't know if you can do some kind of I mean, >> you were doing that last month, too. You know, >> I just >> the carrot instead of the >> people need to have a reason to do the right thing anymore. >> It's just it's hard and it's expensive. I mean, money, you know, >> windows are expensive. thing is so
expensive and I don't know what the price difference is. I've not priced turtle windows versus >> They're expensive. >> I know ours are expensive. We can only do three at a time. >> Years ago when the Donazar expanded um the Oceanania or whatever piece of Right. >> Mhm.
>> So that was like, you know, so here's this existing building and they put on a new piece. >> They're doing a ballroom now. >> Okay. So what happened with that? They got, you know, 80 new windows on the new piece >> and they've got, you know, 300 on the
old piece. >> The permit's going to be for the 80 new windows. >> Mhm. >> It's not going to affect the 300 existing. >> No, typically not. What we did make an exception. It does not apply to the Don Cesar, but to other buildings.
>> I'm just using that as an example. Of course, >> when when um when there's a substantial improvement to the building, all of them need to be made compliant. But if it's an addition that is not a substantial improvement, it's whatever's being added on. >> Said that 49 50% thing kicks in again. >> Exactly.
>> Well, that's that's what's currently drafted. So, >> yeah. >> But under the building code, substantial improvement is new construction. It's treated no differently from something being built from the ground up. So, that's what kicks that in.
So it sounds like requiring the single window or door replacement that single window or door in a non-substantial repair only footprint >> would require that single window or door to be made compliant and then the owner
of course has the option to apply. >> I think by default we have to limit the scope. >> Yeah. >> And we can't use one of a thousand to create to affect the other 999. Right. That's just my way. >> And we've I've seen other ordinances
that have a compliance period. I don't know how the city attorney feels like that for something feels about that for something like this where there's a comply deadline. I think um is there a possibility that the
incentive would be if you have tinting then you don't have to use shades or blinds in the evening to prevent your light from shining through the window to the beach. So it's kind of a built-in incentive that you don't have to go out pull your shades every night. But they
still if they didn't tint the windows, they still would have to sh pull the blinds or move all the drapes so that they're not interfering with the turtles. >> I agree with that. >> I mean, after the construction's done, they're either compliant or non-compliant. And from an enforcement
standpoint, what difference does it make whether it's a month old or 10 years old? They're still not compliant or they're compliant. >> And if they're not compliant, they got to do something about it. Right. >> I think um the windows will have a
natural life and they're going to get hit by hurricanes every now and then. Um and people do replace their windows every now and then, but it is very expensive. So, I hate to >> require um someone to spend $100,000 in their house to put new windows in. And
we might have like bigger fish to fry, no pun intended, but tends with coach lights that are outside the windows that are a lot easier and cheaper to replace. >> It might be a bulb swap out. So,
you know, you have to wonder how much impact at what cost, you know. You know, >> I think limiting the scope I'm I'm comfortable. I think that's realistic. >> I think we're put in a new window. It
needs to be distinct. Is that what we're saying? >> Yeah. And you know, you got form and function and and the function is Yeah. Okay. It has to be new. It has to be functioning new in a new way. If it doesn't meet the existing form, that's
on you, not on us. Okay, thank you. >> And then this will be modified um defining what existing lighting is for for this division and the purposes of permitting. Those are existing lights that are visible on the beach from the
interior that are visible through a window or door. So again, when the window or door has not been modified or exchanged, um it doesn't comply with the visible light transmitted standard that we are adopting. Um I will remove the portion about undergoing like forlike
replacement because it is the recommendation of the committee to make that single light or sorry window or door comply with the glazing standard. >> Glazing or film. >> Film correct.
And then um this is just a carryover from our current ordinance and it's what allows us to address those exterior lights that even if they have been in place the the fixtures been in place for 20 years, they needed to have been made compliant by uh 2007. So that's what we
site when we're citing violations. Doesn't matter if it was installed 20 years ago, it needs to be compliant because we did have that compliance deadline. That was my qu what was the significance of that date? I >> think that was just our original compliance deadline and I just explained
it carry it over. >> Thank you. >> Um this section is not being struck. Uh section 44.3 is being brought into chapter 95 our um beach ordinance. So
this is just being relocated. Section 44.6 six standards for new beachfront lighting. We retain most of these standards. We are requiring again references to the longwavelength light instead of the individual bulb types that were
previously in our code. Um the state discourages using those uh bulb types. They encourage referring to the wavelength. uh we referenced the certified wildlife lighting program references or demonstration through spectrometric
inspection. Part of the challenge we have in talking with the state, this is a challenge statewide, especially for those um municipalities on the west coast, it's it's difficult to go up to someone's property in the middle of the night and hold a spectrometer a few feet
away from the bulb and determine if it's um in compliance or not. We do have the film. Um, we do have the cards that we use for just a quick check, but we haven't tested whether or not that holds up long term. Um, it's really just
for a, you know, line of sight review. So, this would allow at least at the time of inspection for new construction or the change out of windows, doors, exterior fixtures for us to go up to the um the rear of the site and perform the inspection if need be.
We will require exterior fixtures newly installed to be full cutoff. That is a new definition in this code amendment. Again, changing out the references to being long wavelength. Uh we did not have any standards for pool, spas, and accessory decks. That
was one addition that the sea turtle consery requested that we add in. So, we just specify that pool, spas, accessory decks need to utilize long wavelength lighting, fully shielded bulbs and fixtures, underwater lighting needs to be mounted horizontally and not be
directly or indirectly visible from the beach. Usually not an issue, but those lights that extend above the pool deck that illuminate the pool deck uh would still be subject to the lighting standards. >> So, on the pool, and I just know this because we had our building turtle
certified. To do that, we actually had to put a total friend a wildlife friendly wavelength light in our pool. So, we actually exchanged that out. So, they are they are available
>> in the pool. The light >> in the pool. The underwater light bulb. Um, >> is that a county or a state thing or a city thing? That was the program we went through to get our build our condo building certified. To do that, it was
every external light and one of the lights external lights was our pool light for us to get our gold star. Um, we had to change it. So, we did. Um, so it's just something we could
potentially consider here is having them change that. I I guess what I'm asking is is according to what standard and who writes the standard? Is it the city or the county or the state? >> Well, I think we could include it in our
ordinance if we need this language to go a little bit further. We would still defer to their wildlife lighting program. They do have underwater lighting certifications as as you pointed out. So, they could still use that independent certification or they could defer to the state's program. So,
I think it's a state law that commercial pools have a light. >> Okay. >> I believe that's correct. I don't know if private pools need to have a light, but I know commercial pools >> commercial pools definitely do. Yes. >> Now, the question is, do we want in our
ordinance to define that that light needs to also be wildlife friendly? >> Right. >> Well, and you get into other aspect the same. There's a maybe there's some some poles that have overhead lights over the pool deck.
>> Yeah, that's included in this that this is the underwater section. And I'm not for her again, so I'm just >> You can't see that. >> Sea turtle babies ended up in your pool. >> We had That's actually why it's
fascinating you say that. The reason we went through the process of doing what we did is we had baby turtles in our pool. >> No kidding. >> And we had our then we said, "Okay, enough's enough." And we had our building. >> Unbelievable. >> Gold starred and got the certificate. But that's it's it's amazing you say
that. That's why we ended up doing what we did. >> We found baby turtles in our pool. >> I think it's interesting because so much of the dunes have gotten flattened since last year. I You possibly do see some pool decks that you didn't see previously, right? Um, I have not. I've walked some parts of the beach at night,
but not all of it. >> So, you have the water under the light putting the glow up. >> Not you could. Yes. >> Yes. Yeah. >> I don't know. I mean, if you're on the beach and it's illuminated, then that would obviously
be an issue, but I don't know if you wait for it to be an issue to enforce it or >> Well, I think with this being under the new coastal construction standard, I think it's, you know, that that would be a reasonable requirement for any any new pool or, you know, significantly
remodeled pool if if the >> back with Yeah. >> Can you tell the difference with the pool light? Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, is it significantly dimmer? >> I wouldn't say dimmer. It's different. >> Different. >> It's It's different. >> No baby turtles this year.
>> No. And not that I'm saying there's a correlation, but we had more nests in front of us since we did the work than not. But that's I can't >> I'm not going to submit that that made a difference. It's just it could have been a >> you know, these these go in waves.
So for new new pools, significant remodels, we would we would apply that standard. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And the one right before it, there's Dune Crossover. >> Yes. >> Is that defined? Is that a wood walk
over or is that a path? or that gets back into the one question I had about the solar >> that that might be good to define. For example, um with the Myiramar, they're reestablishing their dune walk. If you've been out to the site, you know, it's it's a it's a cliff. Um but they're
working with the state and a portion of it will be an actual built walkover. A portion will be a cut through the dune. So, it would probably be a good idea to define that as as either, >> right? And I know the Florida D actually has a whole page or standard on what a
wood walk over would be and a cut through would be a sand path. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Okay. Moving on to standards for existing beachfront lighting section 44.7. Um only modest changes here.
Our ordinance thankfully was based on the I believe 2000 state model lighting ordinance and there have been some technical updates. You see that with the long wavelength standards, but overall the types of structures, the triggers, those have all more or less stayed the
same from revision to revision. So, and this talks about replacement lighting, removes those true neon yellow bug type bulbs and so on that the state no longer uh recommends
and just talks about those fixtures that necessarily need to have a short wavelength light um would be exempt where where state law prevails, but there are very few situations. I'm I'm not actually aware of one. Um and uh the
rest would need to be made compliant. And this is getting into what we were talking about previously. This is effectively retained as it is current as it is currently drafted in the code. This is also in line with the state model lighting ordinance. So those who have existing buildings, they're not
changing out windows. They're not changing out any any kind of exterior interior lighting fixtures. They would be eligible to either apply window tint or film. They can remove lamps from the windows or use window treatments like blinds or curtains or of course the film
uh to comply with this standard. >> Moving on to section 44. >> You do so at the very beginning it says by July 1st 2008. Just that threw me for a loop.
>> And that's just a carryover from our current code. I I didn't want to adjust any of the dates because I was afraid we would lose that. But we do we cite this all the time um when when referencing lighting violations. So >> and it lets people know it's been the law for a long time.
>> No, I'm not. I just wanted to make sure I understood why. >> Okay. >> No change to standards for publicly own lighting >> on the >> number eight under that section. It says plants vegetation buffers between light source like that. Can we
talk about making sure that you know those are native friend uh friendly, right? They're not putting up Australian pines to solve the problem. But uh be specific, especially they're on the dunes.
>> And then one question is if they're on the dunes, do they need a permit to plant? I don't know the answer to that. >> That's a good question. >> We want to make sure they're putting in dune friendly
>> hold sand down. Sea grapes, sea oats, probably sea grapes if it's all the way back. Sea oats if you're in the front. >> It doesn't say dune, but that is the space between the light source and the beach. So, >> usually so if you just think I'll let you word it, but that's I kind of thought about that.
>> Yeah. The Florida Department of Environmental Protection has a great pamphlet on effectively everything you can plant in the dunes and you know be >> be friendly >> friendly. So we'll we'll defer to that. >> Your question raises just gives me a second Brandon. Does does the the the
confusion between who owns what sand? It's kind of timely now, right? Does that have any impact on what we're talking about here? Is it city, county, state, private? That's all I wanted to say.
>> Well, for for the for the chapter 95, we do make distinctions, but for this, it's it's any any light source, so there really isn't that public private distinction. Okay. >> We have slightly higher standards in 44.8, but other than that, Yeah. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. All right, moving on to 44.8. Um, no no no changes here. So, this refers to street lighting, parking lot lighting, beach access lighting. Um, and we have
that higher standard for the shield fitting. State did not recommend any changes to this section. >> The sunrise to sunset. Um, we've defined that differently and or did we define
that differently? Just a this is a consistency question. I I understand sunrise and sunset, but we al but we have different versions of sunrise and sunset. I think >> it was in the beach ordinance, right? >> So I just for consistency you might
>> absolutely good comment. We are adding a section at the recommendation of the state and also just as as good practice related to special events utilizing light during turtle season. This should be inherent in the other sections. But just to call it out and make it clear that special events,
temporary events, temporary light sources, they all need to be compliant with this ordinance. Um any any lighting utilized on a stage or on any kind of special event during turtle season um needs to be sea turtle friendly and
wildlife friendly. >> We discussed you know during turtle season um should we discussed in the the the last one fireworks? you're reading my mind. >> You know, there's lighting with
fireworks is one thing, but two, there's the pollution of fireworks that go on the beach that then can affect the wildlife. >> Um, I'm in favor of saying during in the other ordinance, I said no fireworks on the beach because of that
matter, but we should also if it doesn't go there, at least we should have it during this season. So, I wouldn't be opposed to having no fireworks here as well. >> I don't know. That's me. I don't know if
everyone else agrees or disagrees. >> That would be in case the amendment to or the the request under chapter 95 is not approved. This would be the fall back at least during turtle season. No fireworks >> or belts and suspenders have it in both places. >> Right.
>> I'll leave that to legal to belts and suspenders. Well, it just it's July 4th is in the middle, but we don't do the July 4th fireworks on the beach, right? We do them >> on the other side. >> On purpose. >> Some of the hotels get try to get special permits.
>> That's why I brought it here. >> There's a lot of fireworks up and down the beach on the fourth. It's on our end. There is >> private. Yeah. >> Okay. Very good.
no changes to the requirements for construction during nesting season. Um we have standards and those are pretty boilerplate. Um we do enforce those. We did add um including use of temporary light sources. The problem is sometimes
you have a property that's fully compliant with the um long wavelength standard, but then they put construction lights up at the rear of the site that are not compliant. So, we're just making it clear that those temporary light sources also need to be turtle
compliant. Uh there was a recommendation just to pair down our enforcement section 44.11. Um inspections are required by the code enforcement department. They they had actually asked that the existing prevailing sentence be removed because
if you specify the week when they're doing the inspection, they might be compliant that week and not otherwise throughout the season. So they do random inspections and that tends to fare better for, you know, making sure everybody's in complian. >> People can turn off their lights.
>> Correct. Good. >> That's a self fix. >> Yeah. And then we listed out penalties. So, um there are different standards that we follow for transient lighting. Um those
that are in compliance that fall with under fall under a building permit are subject to those standards under the code. Um when there are properties that have multiple light sources that are in violation of this division, each may be cited as a violation. Just making that
clear. Violations that originate from a transient lighting source like a special event or that originate from individuals in the public beach shall be cited in accordance with our new citation procedure. So that those who um have a
transient lighting source or is generated from a special event that refused to comply after being asked to do so can be cited for fines. And during marine turtle nesting source uh season, um any light source that's installed upon any public property
that's visible from the beach that we have not authorized can be removed without notice. And uh this is again just following our monitoring and reporting guidance. I believe this is provided by these sea turtle trackers currently, but this is just the annual report that we we submit
to them showing violations um corrections and um false crawls and and so on. We submit that on an annual basis. >> Can that be can we add should be submitted to this committee as well?
We could also say potential to the city commission, but at least here. Does the city have to approve that sea turtle trackers license every year? How does that work? >> FWC does,
>> but to give them because they only do St. Pete Beach. Clearwater does the rest of the island. >> Yeah, I've been involved in a couple of the FWC things and they're dividing up the different segments in different areas and they >> they're reshuffling the permits around around the state.
>> But we >> it's all all done by the state. >> They we don't have any say on who does the sea turtle tracking here on the on the island. >> I think only informally. >> Okay. >> I didn't know how that >> permits issued by the state and it's issued for particular segments for
particular purposes. >> Okay. Ralph on the excuse me on the who what what who who is it that sets the rules? Is it federal EPA? Is it state fish and wildlife in as much as what you can and cannot do to say an existing
nets? >> Um maybe >> you say you you mean public not the city trackers. You're talking now just about endangered species act at the federal level >> and then at the state level there's also protections at the state level as well.
>> I think it's managed by the the question I think the question your question is WC >> what they're allowed to do or not. I believe that it's the state >> that sets the specific that you can't touch a nest without being named on.
>> You can't harm or harass an endangered species, including marine turtles under the federal endangered species act. And the US Fish and Wildlife Service gets involved in comments on projects that involve federal permits or federal funding. But they can also do what's called private taking enforcement on
private projects. And that's at the federal level. and citizens can file citizen suits under the federal endangered species act for say like driving on the beach >> in sea turtle season which are frequent cases and then there's also the state of Florida has their own regulations and
they're patrolled by Florida Marine Patrol and FWC and so we still have occasions of people sometimes poaching sea turtle nests in >> I know we're off topic here but it's the questions have been raised >> and you know if we have a nest
that's, you know, unusually close to the wet water line >> to remove to remove a nest like say during a beach renourishment project that's happening in the sea turtle season, you have to have a permit from the state and the federal uh to relocate
the nest. And that's can only be done um by permit holders. And there is a way to do that and there is a way to get that permit. It's thick and there's a lot of conditions and you have to go through at least a couple month process to get it. >> And that would be specific to a a
renourishment or other similar >> Well, there's other ones that say if there's a net a nest in danger that that the beach monitoring permit holder is allowed to uh take eggs and and and hatch them and then re rep them on
certain occasions. And then I know Santael has a bad coyote problem now. So they're allowed to put chicken wire over the tops of the nests that allow the hatchlings to come out but prevent the coyotes from getting in. So >> or if there's some nest too close to the
water line and we know there's going to be a king tide or storm coming. >> Some of those are removed. Can we remove Can we relocate the nest or can someone >> You can't but a per a permit holder can like on Longbo Key the M marine comes out and they have their buckets and they take them and relocate the nest but it
has to be done by a permit holder >> and in our case it might be sea turtle trackers that would initiate >> sea turtle track they're the ones that hold the license and I believe you have to be named on the license to actually do it. >> Okay. They've gotten more specific where you have to say who's going out on what day
and >> each individual person has to go through training. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> That's all I had. Um any other comments from the committee or anything we missed? >> As always, you've knocked it out of the
park, man. I just This is like minutia on top of minutia with wavelength. So again, I'm curious, the entire document, is it only during turtle season or is this a year- round requirement for lighting? And
>> so the lighting the lighting is year round and this this comes up frequently. Um the exception would be outside of turtle season for special events, they would not need to comply or constru you know construction >> visible from the beach that would not need to comply but within season. Yes.
And as far as enforcability, obviously during turtle season is very important, but outside of turtle season, are we monitoring like turtle whiting like >> yes, >> December through? >> So, and that's part of the reason for that that uh sent removal of that one sentence. Of course, they can go out as
frequently as they want, but they start fairly early in the year. They might actually start toward the end of the preceding year uh just to do those initial inspections. >> That's a great question. Well, we have a lot of friends like visitors and such and so we talk about like if you walk at night with flashlights,
can you walk with a flashlight in December, January, you know, that type of thing versus during turtle season. So, those are all just curiosities. I think >> there's also other wildlife that it affects, >> right? So, right, >> you'd want it's better just to say year
round. >> Well, no, that was the question like is it is it okay out of turtle season? But yeah, so the designation doesn't matter when >> you should have a wildlife friendly flashlight which you can get on Amazon. >> There you go. Okay. >> And you know there are some properties that are coming back online here in the
near future. >> It'll probably be after season. >> Mhm. >> And I imagine that the repair process and the permitting process would incorporate these things into their reopening.
>> Correct. Yes. It's >> passed. Good. >> We never face challenges with additions and significant construction and especially with those exterior lighting fixtures by by and large all property owners comply. But when you get down to,
like you said, the minutia of what happens when you're changing out one window, you know, that's where it can get a little bit dicey. And I think that's what this really is intended to address. Okay. >> Dan, anything from you? >> I had one quick thing and it's on the
native plants. on the dunes. There are definitely requirements which you can put on there, but somebody I'm looking in 44.7 where we talk about somebody could use vegetation buffers for like which makes
sense. But if that's on their property, is there something that would keep them from putting the Brazilian peppers or is there something that the city can say no, you can't put that there? We we do prohibit category one plantings.
Category two, for example, I believe coconut palms are currently category two. Um we do not prohibit those, but what is planted in the dune does does need to be um native stabilizing vegetation. So, and the uh Florida
Department of Environmental Protection, they have a pamphlet that really lists out all the appropriate planting. So, we would direct them to that. if they wanted to use something else, we we would evaluate at that time. >> Okay. >> A subject for another day >> um is
>> planting on the island and non-natives because what we've there's a team called Dune Savers. What they're noticing is things that are planted on island going into the dunes taking over and getting rid of all the stuff we want
>> to to hold. You know, I always say the seaw walls of the west. Um, if we don't have the right things there holding that sand down, we're in trouble. But we can talk about that as a potential conversation for another meeting. Any other comments?
Do we want I know we we had public comment before. Everyone okay to allow another public comment? I am. >> Sure. >> Yes, please. >> Okay. Cindy Perry, >> please state your name and address for the record. It's good to see you.
>> My name is Cindy Perry and I live on Bokea is Drive and I just wanted to make one comment. First of all, very excited to see this work. Um, as you all know, I'm a burer. And 80% of the birds
migrate at night. And one of the things we need to think about is sometimes when you put a a darkened window, it actually reflects more and you're more likely to have a bird strike. And birds like the wavelength to be long as the turtles do,
like 590 or whatever. So when you were talking about just turtle season, um it's really a bigger picture. Um when a bird strikes a window, even if it flies away, they usually die. So, just wanted to mention the birds.
>> Thank you. I appreciate you being >> with that. Do I need a a motion to adjurnn? >> You can. >> I motion that we adjourn. >> Sorry. >> I do have a couple updates. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. >> I should have went to you, Cameron. >> Um, first off, the up on beach
nourishment, we should start seeing construction progress starting today um out there. Um so the the sand placement and grading activities are expected to last about four weeks. Um and the beach access will will be closed while that work is going on. Um Panelis County does
have a project website specific for this um project. So you can you can check the updates um as well as what's going on in the rest of the county's re. you say the access is going to be I don't mean to interrupt but when you say the access is going to be closed there's um one of those plastic fence things on
the beach that runs down to the water and it's right there at the silver sands. So the the southernmost walkover is still open. >> It's still Yes, sir. Um, are you saying that everything from that southernmost
northbound to the pass is going to be shut down? >> Yeah, pretty much where you where you see that fencing now is is going to be is going to be their area. They'll they'll be sticking to that for >> So, can you still park at the beach pavilion and get onto the or get into the Paradise Grill area?
>> Yes, you should you should still be able to park there and access the grill. >> And that's the extent of it. You can't go off the deck. You can't go over the beachwalk at Paradise Grill. >> Yeah. And then north of there. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> It's similar to when they did the pass grillishment. They blocked it off and
>> there's heavy machinery that's at least there was when they did pass a grill. We don't want people there because we don't want them to get hurt. So now does that also include stopping beach walking along the wet sand at the
waters line north of that Silver Sands fence? >> I'll have to verify their limits. I think they they have closed off access completely. Um but >> they did pass. >> Yeah, >> they did. >> Okay. >> That's going to affect a lot of people.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And their their their goal is, you know, shore up the area and get it done as quickly as possible. >> Get them as fast as they can, obviously. Yeah. >> Mhm. >> They're going to enjoy a nice bigger beach. >> And it's a big operation. I've seen it several times in the past. And it's >> Oh, yeah. It's big
>> acorage big. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> So, >> it desperately needs it. >> And they're running 24/7 if I'm not mistaken. >> I don't think I don't believe they're No, >> it's loud. It's loud. >> They were in the past. We'll see. We'll see. Thank you for that.
>> Yes, sir. And then the second update I had um was regarding my role here on on the committee for the staff liaison position. We'll be transitioning that over to Mr. Brian Pekkins. He is the assistant director for our public services department. Um so he's been in
the role for about four or five months now. So now that he's kind of settled in and gotten used to city operations, um we we thought that'd be a good time to bring him in to this committee. Um, so Brian, he he's here joining us today if you'd like to meet him. Um, he holds a bachelor's and a master's in in civil
engineering. Um, he's got quite an extensive career um in construction uh specifically with the Army Corps and is also a licensed professional engineer. So I think he'll be able to provide a good technical perspective. Um, his team manages our our capital projects, so
Dune reourishment or Dune walkover replacements and coordinate with the county on the reourishment. Um, so looking forward to to having him serve with you guys moving forward. >> Sorry to see you. >> I know. >> Step aside, but welcome to the team.
>> So that we did have a second already. >> Okay. >> To adjourn. >> Ajourn. Thank you.