e e e e e e e e e commission meeting of the city of St
Pete Beach it is Tuesday February 11th 2025 it is 6 p.m. let's stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and
to the Republic for which it stands under God indivisible with libery and justice for all city clerk if you please do a roll call vice vice mayor mahand here commissioner Marriott here commissioner
Robinson here commissioner is Nikki here mayor patrilla here we have a COR thank you before we get started I'd like to make just one quick comment um seems that many of you may be new to city um to city um commission meetings
and so we just want to lay out some of the ground rules right so the fact that so many of you are here just like I told you when you were outside I profoundly appreciate it I was born and raised in a country where this was not possible you could not go out and speak to the government and speak against the government if you didn't like what the
government had to say to you and so for those of you who are here because you want your voices to be heard I want you to know that we want to hear you and because we want to hear you we also want you to please be quiet because when people come and speak we we will not be hear what they say so out of respect for
all the people that took the time to be here tonight I'm sure you all have busy schedules and yet this is you must have some important issue in your mind so when people come and speak I want to make sure that we're able to hear them so show them the respect when they come give them the opportunity to say what
they're here for so no booing no cheering no clapping just say thank you for your comments and let the next person speak okay this is democracy in action this is what we want we want Community involvement and the more of
you that are here I wish there were as many people here every single commission meeting it makes me sad when I show up sometimes and there might be two or three people right so thank you I genuinely thank you for being here now that said democracy is a beautiful thing it also
goes hand inand with order so I'm going to ask you to respect those rules tell your cell phones off make sure we maintain the Quorum you know we've got the sheriff here they're always here here by the way they're not here just for a special occasion so you know I don't want to call on them so please don't put us in a position where we have
to do that so again we're going to respect order and thank you all for being here so the first item tonight is the approval of the agenda Commissioners and staff is there are there any amendments to the agenda as proposed mayor I'd like to add a discussion item
if I could sure um I'd like to add a discussion item about our our process for when um new ordinances come before the commission that would be item 7 C process commissioner Marriott anyone else Mr Mayor uh yes sir
I was just making a note here uh if possible I'd like to move uh item J to an action please and that would be the pass of Grill um title check vals item under consent okay with half
Associates yes so that'll be 5A thank you any other amendments I would like to add a discussion item 7D on the proposed noise ordinance any other changes is there a motion to approve the
agenda as a amended I move to approve the agenda as amended is there a second second city clerk if you'll please do a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner res Nikki yes vice mayor mahand yes mayor
Petrella yes motion carries thank you with that we move on to item 2A the Helen Helen and Milton recovery efforts update thank you mayor City commission tonight we actually have three separate presenters uh three topics Fire Station 22 of update we we'll kick us off then
we'll have the Public Works director give an overview of how we're prioritizing the repairs of all the damage from the storm and then lastly you'll get your general update from the community development director they are all timed so I'd ask that you you let them finish the presentation and ask questions after if possible thank you
and fire chief you're up thank you C the manager thank you all you same so I was asked to bring uh this topic to you all tonight the uh Fire Station 22 update start with a brief overview Station 22 uh 1950 pass a gr away built
in 1974 uh of Interest with this conversation tonight uh some of the uh information that I gained from the research was that it was moved to this position after Hurricane Agnes came through in
1972 uh currently houses maximum of five fire fighers with three sharing a bunk room of less than 160 Square ft serves St Pete Beach neighborhoods of bell Vista V delar Don's our place and historic pass of Grill along with the surrounding area there's always been a question as
far as the viability of Station 22 in my experience and 2011 mccarth Associates uh were hired to conduct a structural analysis that identified deficiencies including the inability of the structure to to withstand hurricane Forest Winds
of 130 M hour which is the current building code the report stated the hardening of the structure would cost $350,000 that's in $21 and that would trigger the FEMA 50% Ru the report recommend it replacing the station with a category 5 hurricane
resistant facility to ensure the operational continuity of the department during disasters the decision was made uh not to go with the Cat 5 structure but to remove the hose Tower as it was structurally leaning uh and do
some cosmetic repairs Kitchen paint and flooring pre- storms conditions in in addition to these recommendations the following concerns were noted are still caused for concern today the seven Overhead Doors uh have not been upgraded to meet current uh wind load
requirements exterior walls or masonry visibly damaged especially on the East Elevation there's apparent leaks to the southwest corner with damage the overhead steel joist part of that roof structure uh and the electrical panel uh North End and the and South offices
consists of brick construction which is permeable uh there's moisture in that area evidence of water leaks in that North brick wall specifically in the windows around the windows and the wall is visibly damaged it's spalling and the concrete is uh coming off construction of the roof system is particularly
susceptible to wind loads again in 2017 hurricane Irma delivered a Lancing blow to the city damage was minimal in comparison to other areas Station 22 had a catastrophic generator failure amongst other damage it created an issue where it was
uninhabitable for weeks we relocated to station 23 causing significant increases in response times in September 2019 the city of St P Beach launched a strategic planning process One goal of that strategic process was uh resiliency
due to the age design and current condition of the existing structure a replacement project was created after 50 years of active use as a fire station the structure had unfortunately reached the end of its useful life with an initial estimate of
construction of4 million a $2 million earmark was obtained from the state with the assistance of Representative Linda Cheney the city hired sweet Sparkman Architects to create the design the preliminary design was approved by the historic preservation board as well as as the commission
unanimously with inflation delays and other factors cost Rose to an estimated 10 to 12 million post storm after the impacts of Helen and Milton damage is above the 50% value triggering FEMA compliance and current
building NFPA code uh bringing the current structure into compliance is not cost effective we have limited grant funding options were compe which are competitively based staff with the assistance of fdm is working to provide
more options Shoemaker and assoc and advisers are lobbyist is assisting with another appropriation request in the amount of three million note that there are similar requests being made by other first responder organizations in the area also impacted by Helen and Milton a loan is
another possibility a bond issue is another option permitting and construction is estimated to take 16 months Grant rules make require permitting to be complete prior to the award here's a slide that our finance department put together that can give you an idea of what the funding options
look like if we go with a loan yeah sure our finance director yep hi Finance director Angel Laughlin here just to give you a quick overview of what the financing could look like if we were to borrow $12 million there's be typically two routes that we would go one is just
Bank debt uh go through bank loan the advantage of that is the issuance cost would be le a little less than if we were going through a public issuance and issuing public debt however the interest rate in a public debt would be a little more favorable compared to Bank debt so really what it comes down to is what is
the the amount of the principle that we would need to borrow so this would be if we were borrowing the entire amount at $12 million if there's other sources of funding uh grant funding otherwise State appropriation that we could to offset these the the total cost of this project
then that could factor in the decision but just want to present you with what the total interest cost looks like the amount of the annual Debt Service requirement and then a comparison of the interest rates if we were to go on a 15-year bank note 20-year bank note or
go longer on a on a 30-year bonds because typically Bank notes banks will only lend about 10 15 possibly 20 years depending on the size of the issuance so if we want to stretch that longer that means less annual debt service requirements
um U but then we' go probably the uh the public debt route so just want to present that to you in conjunction with this presentation take any questions if you have them otherwise turn them back over to Jim thank you a report by an fdm vendor estimated the cost of repairs at over
$250,000 while the estimate and report is extensive it does not bring the structure to current code an internal report in conjunction with the Fire Marshal's Office this year listed some of the code deficiencies of the existing structure this is a summary I had over
four pages of code issues that uh with the current structure um some of these are quite pricey um and of course they would need to be done before we could occupy the structure renovation is not viable
although the price of 250,000 sounds uh low um bringing it to current code could run that price up quite a bit renovation costs nearly uh often cost nearly as much as rebuilding according to the station design conference uh
presentation that I saw in 2024 the FEMA 50% rule repair cost will exceed 50% of the building value full compliance with modern codes is required driving repair costs even higher the structure is outdated the existing station does not meet NFPA OSHA Ada or current building
code standards there are no gender neutral living quarter uh there's no area for Hot Zone design the uh current apparatus does not fit into the Bays uh it does not account for future growth hidden cost of renovation upgrading the electrical the plumbing
the HVAC the contamination control systems and the hardening of the structure to meet the current 130 mph wind load requirements would far exceed 250,000 um NFPA data shows construction costs in urban areas such as ours uh average around $1,171 a square foot
even with repairs the station would not support the modern fire service operations efficiently the staff currently is in a portable structure provided by Fimo uh it's at the Don Vista Building the current monthly cost is $577,000 100% of that cost is covered by
FEMA until February 28th after that it goes to a 7525 split currently we are coordinating with a new vendor uh to deliver a something similar to a double wide trailer uh that would cost 47,000 to set up with recurring
monthly costs of approximately $7,500 temporary station considerations it's not a long-term option it's not designed for that the ongoing rental costs renting and modifying the space adds Financial strain
uh operational efficiency it Maya impact response time and firefighter Readiness uncertain future the permanent solution is necessary to maintain the service levels the staff recommendation is to proceed with demolition the current station is beyond costeffective
repair uh plan for long-term housing for the temporary rent station is not viable as a long-term solution as I mentioned and construct a new station ensure compliance with modern fire and safety standards next steps our recommendation is to demo the station finalize
engineering compliance plans confirm cost estimates and regulatory requirements and secure funding and approvals identify grants budget allocations and financing options develop a transition timeline to ensure a smooth shift to a permanent solution engage uh maintain
transparency with City leadership and the community that's all I have are there any questions thank you Chief Commissioners questions you have your um in front of you so turn to green if You' like to speak commissioner mohal
and you're up first uh excuse me yes Mr Mayor uh I have questions for both uh Mr Laughlin and uh the chief uh Chief you had mentioned uh double wide uh that would be at the da
Vista at at this point yes sir and so during an evacuation period obviously we don't want the firefighters in a Double Wide Trailer m um 300 ft from the Gulf of Mexico or the
Gulf of America um so what where would they go um during the initial phases of an evacuation before they actually left the island those double those double wides excuse
me I'm sorry those double wides are wind rated uh for the 130 mph so initially they could uh stay prior to evacuation but once we evacuate in any storm the the stations are evacuated as well so they would be leaving just as we do now
so that wouldn't be an issue in the short term we wouldn't have to be concerned about their safety and a double wide no sir when you use that word there the condentation I know you understand that you know a 70 m 1 hour wind would blow it over so I could say camper does that
sound better uh So currently we're receiving from FEMA $557,000 a month for the fire department being at the dawn Vista we're not receiving that money those funds uh
are reimbursed so we pay for that and then FEMA reimburses us for it so who are we paying that to to the vendor okay for all the modular units that are there okay I understand I thought maybe we had converted the dawn Vista from the worst investment in the
city to the best but uh apparently that's not the case uh the 7525 split uh we talk about uh on February 28th that it goes to that split
MH how long does that last the split I'm assuming I'll have to confirm that but I assume it's approximately 90 days okay so it's certainly not for an extended period of time no sir okay chief I think that's all the questions I have you but I do have some
from Mr Laughlin So currently sir um you presented the finance which I show as being on my page eight um and you address the bank notes
uh 10 15 20 and then a 30-year Bond and this question might be for the Chief or it may actually be for Mr Mills um what's the life expectancy of the new station anticipated to be I know uh the
current one is at 50 years and we're being told that it has to be replaced should have been replaced 15 years ago so is the life expectancy 30 years 50 years 100 years what's what's our sense because that that certainly has to be
part of the calculus on uh borrowing money yes sir uh based on my research UH 60 to 75 years with new modern construction techniques so a longer a longer time than the current structure did you say 50 or 60 to 70 60 to 75
years is what I've read okay okay so um a lot can change in that period of time and I understand that but uh safe to say that the expectation would be that the new structure would be good for 50 years that would be a minimum I would
assume all right thank you uh so Mr Laughlin as I look at our city debt load and I I I look at this from the perspective that we've got
$25 million currently over the next five years in likely unfunded liabilities for sewer and water projects is that in round figures is that reasonably accurate sounds like it yeah I thought so uh
so we currently have a long-term debt of $2,795 um unless I missed a keystroke but I think that's pretty close to what our long-term debt is and when I say long-term uh essentially anything over a
year year I know we have one note that's maturing uh this year uh that will roll off on 9526 we have another note that will roll off uh in 2027 on
92327 but uh I included that in the long-term uh debt so uh in round figures it looks to me like the city uh has about $32 million in loans and bonds outstanding in does that sound about
right yeah based on this the schedule I sent you all I don't know if it's a month or so ago I'm seeing 32,900 so yep right in the same neighborhood yeah and and I would say that um the um coupon rate or the bond rate the interest rate
SL coupon rate for a bond or the interest rate uh for a loan uh the the rates of all of our loans are quite attractive so uh I it's I don't want to say it's almost free money but it is almost free money so we're really in
we've got great rates on our long-term debt so that's a good thing but um with this proposal of replacing this fire station uh we're certainly looking at adding the long-term debt whether it be a bank note or whether it be a
loan so as I see it um our annual Debt Service is about 2.5 million today uh $225,000 of that will be rolling off uh
in September of 27 I I apologize $222,000 of that will roll off in September of 26 and 225,000 of that will roll off in
September of 27 and I'm not asking you to confirm that because you may not be prepared prep for that I'm checking our my my schedule and and your comments they look very accurate so far okay so uh we've got uh in round figures about
$447,000 in uh long-term debt this rolling off um the annual burden on the city uh within the next let's say 18 months or before the fire station would be finished um so I I I just just want
to put that out there as we make a decision on how we think we might move forward with this um sewer and water aside because that's you know hasn't been dealt with yet and needs to be dealt with but specific to this
situation uh I kind of wanted to frame it um so people understood does that mean I'm out of time no um no sir I I I wanted to frame it on kind of where we are
debt uh and what we have rolling off and as I look at your financing options here um the the 30-year bond which based on our situation certainly seems
reasonable to me uh so far as what the ultimate cost is not only an interest rate but based on the life EXP expectancy of the fire station uh so we would be picking up
annually as I see it uh somewhere in the neighborhood of uh I've got it here somewhere got a lot of notes on this but in round figures I think it's around 300 350,000 a year in additional debt to
build this fire station if we went with the 30-year bond which from my perspective um I hate debt um but you know we kind of have to deal with the realities so as I see we're potentially
looking at increasing our cost once this station is done by about um $ 300 $350,000 a year and I thought I had the exact figures but I have a lot of figures here and only about so much time
um oh here we go $281,000 of additional debt load to the city moving forward um where we to do the 30-year Bond so my question uh as it relates to the bond
because I'm willing to be talked out of it by the other Commissioners or by City staff or the residents uh but based on everything I see if we're going to do this uh we you know the 30-year Bond's probably the way
to go my question would be would we be loading a general obligation or a utility bond for this project no no it wouldn't be utility because this is this isn't an Enterprise operation so the Fire EMS is in the in
in governmental activities um so in terms of um what we would pledge that wouldn't be user fees from um from util related to utilities but we look at you know pledging certain
um non-utility you know General Revenue um you know if it's non adorm or um or you know parking revenues so we' we'd sort through that in terms of the the structure of the debt and what the what the pledge would be but it' be it would
not be on the Utility side so this wouldn't affect um water rates from from payers since this isn't utility related okay so the 4.3% um interest rate or coupon bond rate um for the bond and and those I
understand those float around so that could be less it could be more depending on when we actually issue the bond um so that would be based on a utility bond for the credit rating of St Pete Beach is that 432 figure not a
general obligation bond for St Pete Beach in our credit rating no I don't I believe that's not based on a utility related Bond Ian that's that would be more uh General obligation debt and that's just preliminary preliminary estimates we
haven't so we could potentially um I I just want to be Eyes Wide Open on this so we could potentially be um looking at maybe a quarter percent more um on a utility Bond or possibly the estimated
cost of issuance because we might have to ensure a utility bond that that there could be additional expense that's not reflected here if we're doing a utility Bond as opposed to a general obligation Bond I mean I have to look into the
legality even even of structuring this debt as a utility Bond considering this is completely independent of our Wastewater and reclaim water utility system so I think we'd be looking at our governmental Revenue sources and that would be the the source
of the Pledge for this for this type of debt issuance and so I think those rates take that into consideration okay so just as a general comment for um I I'm I am far from a financial advisor I'm a one-man show
um uh generally or I don't want to use the word generally typically a general obligation Bond uh is more onerous to a city in in so much that uh and City Mr City attorney please correct me if I'm
Mis speaking here a general obligation Bond uh ties uh All City Revenue assets to guaranteeing the payment of that Bond
irrespective of what happens to the particular facility that the bonds issued for whereas a utility bond is specific to the utility SL facility that the bond is issued for
um which creates less ultimate risk to the city in the case of a default uh so I I I just think it's important I I think personally either way whether it's a go or an obligate or
a utility Bond based on everything I've seen so far if we go forward with this you know I am in the camp of issuing a bond but I think it's important that everybody understands that it will either be a general obligation or utility Bond and if we issue a go then
we are essentially securing all assets and revenues of the city to that Bond as opposed to the specific project am I correct or incorrect on that or do you have an opinion on that Mr City attorney I just have one additional legal fact
that you may enter into your decision making and that's if it's a general obligation B you have to go to a referendum of the citizens in a ballot so it have to be placed on an election so that would add a lot of time to the
project so if the commission feels that and and the city staff and the commission feels in it all of its power uh whatever that might be uh that we wanted to move forward on a bond we would have to make the decision that it
would have to be a utility Bond as I understand understand if time is of the essence because a referendum as we've learned in the past here um elections and referendums don't happen quickly around here so um in order to meet the
timelines that have been laid out uh we would likely have to do a utility bond does that complicate things for you I mean you you kind of were already advocating for the utility Bond do we have fire assessment or no in this city
I'm not sure is there a fire assessment like there some okay we don't have one I mean what we could do is is a much broader conversation on financing we could bring the city's contracted financial adviser here to talk about how to structure the debt like I mentioned a
2 to 10 million is a great sweet spot for issuing a bank note at a slightly higher interest rate lower issuance costs um the the less impediments to issue you know in term and I don't have the details on the types of Revenue
sources we would pledge for that non-ad Alor Revenue to pledge in the inner workings of that but we can certainly Workshop that bring our our fa in to give you you know all that detail we just wanted to present just a quick overview what this could look like and if it's something we want to pursue then
we can have a deeper dive exploration and discussion on the inner workings of the financing and what's the best course of action that that LE you know best interest rate best for the city best duration in terms the term of of the debt that we're comfortable with and
have in the financing mechanism uh Bank versus bond so Mr Mayor I have one more question and then hopefully I'll be done uh of the $12 million no matter how we fund
it we've already received or or we did receive an initial Grant of $2 million I think from representative Cheney y um is that what's the Timeout on that uh when when do we have to
actually um commit to what we're doing in order for that Grant to still be good and not have to go back and pay for it to be reissued to us I'd have to find out more about that commissioner I did send a question to the state I have not
received a response yet as far as that time line um as far as how soon we have to spend the money so the financing options that were pre presented tonight as I understand it
are with no without any additional help correct including representative Cheney's grant that she gained for the city I mean I know that our lobbyists are working on grants and all that but um so far as a Bird in Hand
the only one we know is commissioner or I'm sorry representative she was a commissioner questioner representative Cheney's grant that we received which I believe was for $2 million uh but that could time out on us but this $12 million is being presented
is not does not include that is under the assumption there's no other funding sources Revenue sources that can defray those those costs but if we do then obviously the amount that we would need to uh issue in debt would reduce and then maybe that makes uh a bank loan
more attractive than than a public issu it's okay thank you Mr Mayor thank you thank you sir commissioner marot uh sir uh fire chief I've just got a a quick question for you um the you know that's a a for for everybody
looking at it from the outside that's a big jump from a $4 million Firehouse to a12 million firehouse and we've got a City full of people who are also in the position of having to rebuild their houses and face some tough choices about how much money they have and how much they can spend and what they want
and so have have we looked at any options for a less expensive Firehouse or is it just a $12 million Firehouse or nothing you know we've spoken to the architect there are some elements of the fire station that could be eliminated but they don't uh provide for
substantial savings uh there's a community SL trining room that if we eliminate it you know we were told that it possibly reduce the cost by $500,000 it's pretty Bare Bones uh as it is uh it's strength really is not in the
is in its resiliency more so then uh you know it's it's not a lot of bells and whistles to that structure okay commissioner R Nikki yes good evening thank a question for
you um I can you hear me okay yes ma'am thank you um prior to the herd the plan for the building was to demolish is that correct yes ma'am okay just wanted to verify that
and then also prior to the hurricane what was the plan while being constructed imagining that there was no hurricane what was the plan um while the fire station was being constructed for
equipment or current staff you know firefighters to be located where were they going to be back then what was the plan we were still planning that but something similar to what we're doing now with the double wide trailer we've also mentioned the Warren Webster building um but various sites for a
double wide trailer or one of the city structures Warren Webster seem like the most appropriate fit uh we can't go any further south than that to meet response times so um we're kind of limit it okay so part of the plan was to have
double white trailers and and with those double white trailers and this is a question um you know with with because of all the Hurricanes and everything that's happened um are we is does FEMA frown on us having these double whes on
an island in a flood plane is that allowed it's allowed it's not the most ideal solution but that is uh really the most appropriate solution they are win rated uh they will be hurricane strapped
um but they they're going to be more resilient than the actual structure that we're leaving currently the old Station 22 okay so they'll be strapped um as well so not because I'm thinking of flood as well not just wind yeah flood would be something that
we'd have to to deal with um as you know from your own experience my own experience it's it's stuff to run from flood you can run from wind you can't run from flood so uh we'd have to adapt once that occurred if it occurred thank
you commissioner Robinson I just have one question how much of the building was insured the insured amount on the building did we get anything as late as as late as this afternoon as I was coming to the meeting I think there was a figure of
1.25 okay so we'll get some of that insurance money yes ma'am to go towards this reconstruction so that's good news yes there's also like I said a legislative budget request already uh in in progress with uh representative Cheney uh
hopefully to meet uh with the previous one as well so right okay thank you commissioner moholland I don't know how that happened I apologize all right thought I had it figured out thank you sir so
Chief how much how much are we getting from the insurance I'm not sure what the amount is that we're going to be getting from the insurance we had an estimate or an adjustor out and they've given us a number or the amount it is insured for is 1.25 okay uh commissioner mohol and just to
address one of your questions uh because of the way that our city elections are structured they run opposite of midterms and general elections and federal elections so we have an election almost
every 6 months available in the city so um that so if we had to go that route with a referendum I don't think it's not it wouldn't delay Us by two years like a normal election cycle or even by a year um it might be something where we would be probably 3 to six months out which we
could easily plan for so if that's the route that we want to go know go now we would just plan for the November elections uh or whatever whatever the next panel election cycle is so um Chief or city manager I'm going to
ask you a really tough question and I've been asked this question many times in the last couple weeks about a number of different topics and and items that we brought before the commission um you know we're dealing with the aftermath of two hurricanes we're dealing with catastrophic failure of our sewer system
to the tune of a minimum of $25 million as much as $35 million and now we're looking at another um $12 million I guess the question is I'm not this is not a loaded question this is a
a genuine serious question why now why do we have to do this now or is it something that we can put off what are we looking at I think the time now is now um the funding sources that we have are are you know due to the
hurricane are here and present uh if we move on those may go away um we cannot progress uh we cannot stay in these temporary structures any longer we have to move forward it's an investment in the future um like I said the previous structure served us for 50 years this
structure hopefully can serve us for 50 60 75 years uh with the appropriate design and construction um we need that that asset down at the South End of the island we're geographically isolated uh
and we need that station to be there so that we can meet response times and serve the public to the level that they expect okay and so if we didn't do this now if we went with the options I think based on the presentation it would be
about $250,000 to bring the station back to functional understanding that it would not bring it up to code but just functional it would bring it back to 1974 okay so um we cannot uh build in any new systems we can not building any
new uh programs into that new that station it is it is bursting at the seams uh it was never meant to have the staff that is in it currently it was built for administrative staff the front bunk room is actually the former Chief's uh office so uh we've tried our best
we've invested a lot of Sweat Equity into that station we've tried to make it uh livable um and we've stretched it I believe as far as we can stretch it and if we weren't to do this now right so if we went with the let's fix it option $12
million sounds like a lot what would that mean for the long-term viability of us Pro able to provide the emergency services to the community we'd be in the same boat the same decision points that we all have with our homes that live out here is it to make it more resilient or to go back
to the the way it was we have to make it more resilient because we're responsible for the public from that structure um you know we have a lot of people to serve in that area um and we would we could be affected just like we are affected with Helen and
Milton just like we are affected with Irma just like we were affected with Hurricane Agnes back in 1972 we're going to continue to live that same lesson over and over again um as these storms keep keep getting bigger and stronger so uh we need to we need to rise up
literally in figuratively and meet that uh need so is it your professional opinion and recommendation that this time at this time our emergency services are not sustainable in the current state and if we want to be able to service our
community this has to get done sooner rather than later it is my opinion it's the opinion of the fire marshal it's the opinion of our staff we've gone through that building over and over again we've toured that structure with multiple commission and Commissioners and the same answer always comes at the end of
that tour so um we've just tried to push it back you know to the back burner over and over again because we realize it's a it's a large uh ticket item but um it's something that is needed in my opinion
yes sir thank you Chief and if further questions for the chief thank you sir thank you so there were three presentations yes uh director Mills good evening mayor vice mayor Commissioners Charter officials for the
record my name is Cam Mills and I had the pleasure of serving as your public services director so this evening I would like to follow up on our previous discussion at the priority work shop that we had in December and go over some of the priority projects um that we're working
through for our our storm recovery uh when evaluating uh which projects uh would would fall into the priority raking um there's several criteria that we looked at uh first and foremost is is public health and safety um the extent to which um this the project would address um health and
safety Community impact um the the infrastructure vulnerability um which would be the risk and additional damage or or failure of repairs are delayed critical services to our community um as well as economic
impact in our priority work session back in December uh we presented over 20 um projects that we're pursuing through FEMA and and insurance these are the top five um that staff is currently prioritizing and working through uh first and foremost is our Wastewater
system and our storm water system next will come our critical facilities um such as Fire Station 22 our public Services building in our community center and rec center and then next would come some of the critical infrastructure of our passive grow way
seaw wall and the Gulfway roadway and beach wall um give you a high level overview of our Wastewater system um our preliminary damage estimate has over $7.5 million of damage um significant
damage to 11 of the 21 lift stations um mainly from Hurricane Helen and the the flooding damage that um OCC ref to our electrical systems uh Master Pump Station one is is a critical project in component of our
Wastewater system um to date we've completed about $130,000 worth of repair um but we have close to $2 million of remaining work uh with this project um Pump Station one is insured um as I mentioned we are pursuing um the FEMA
project and it is as well as a budgeted Capital Improvement program project so we are progressing um with that Capital Improvement project next would be the remaining um lift stations so the other lift stations that were impacted from the storms um in
total those repairs going to cost about $3.6 million um these facilities are insured and and again we are pursuing FEMA um and this um for these we have hired an engineering consultant to help with the engineering design uh for the
rehabilitation and we are pursuing uh mitig ation measures where we can to add in resilience next would be our underground pipe and structure system um here we're proposing a systemwide cleaning and televising um this will help clean some
of the sand and grit that was um put into the system um from the storm surge as well as um the TV's um component of it which would help us inspect um to um identify damages that we can't see from the surface and help us prioritize um
long-term Asset Management our under ground sewer system piping and manholes are not insured um so we're pursuing FEMA as our main funding source um right now we're um drafting scop of services uh for a contractor to come and clean and televise the
system uh this is a brief overview of some of the recovery completed to date for our Wastewater system um for our Master Pump Station one um all the replacement equipment um associated with that Capital project has been ordered um in the in the pump purchase orders
issued um that total is just under $2 million our communication equipment is now operational so we have visibility on on our different lift stations throughout the city um so we're able to U monitor alarms and address those as needed 11 uh temporary control panels
have been installed again so we can have um more fine-tuning control of those lift stations we had five portable bypass pumps um in operation uh to date three of those have been demobilized um we still have two that are out there um that we plan to demobilize in the next
couple weeks and we have ordered over 10 lift station pumps um that were damaged to be installed um as those are delivered we have our site damage inspections with FEMA um scheduled later this month for the 26th and 27th um so
after those meetings are completed um we'll we'll comgress on a a clear path forward um next would be our storm water system uh similar to our Wastewater system we're proposing a systemwide uh cleaning and inspection um this this facilities aren't insured so we're
pursuing a femo project and we're again in the process of dra drafting scope of services to advertise for construction services to complete that cleaning and televising next I'll get into some of our critical facilities um as a fire chief mentioned our Fire Station 22 um
the total insured value is is just over $1.2 million so we're working with our insurance um to see exactly what they would pay out for that um this project is is insured um and then we're pursuing FEMA as well and as well as using utilizing our Capital project funds to
move forward with the engineering and Architectural design uh the FEMA site inspections for this facility were recently completed on January 28th and 29th uh next critical facility uh which which has some economic impact to to our
community is is our rec center and our community center um this sustained quite a bit of damage um in total um almost $3 million uh we are pursuing insurance and and femo for this um right now we're in the process of finalizing the the scope
of the construction work for repairs um and that's a coordination between our city facility staff um the insurance and the contractor that we have um planned to do the repair work and then the third critical facility is our Public Services building
um this is the facility that our operations for streets and storm water waste water beach cleanup and and Parks is all operated out of uh majority of the damage sustained was from the flooding um from Hurricane Helen um to date we've completed about $4,000 of
emergency work um but we have over $200,000 of remaining work to complete and again we are pursuing Insurance um and FEMA as well as leveraging um already budgeted Capital Improvement funds to move these project forward um our site inspection with femma for
this facility is scheduled for March 11th our next two projects are are some critical infrastructure um that that would pose Life Safety um concerns first is our Passa Grill seaw wall um various locations between First Avenue and 12th Avenue particularly the sections um that
weren't recently constructed right now we're estimating this repair work to be in the range of $5 million um you would notice in in there because um that that is still to be determined and finalized um we're issuing a task order to a geotechnical engineering firm to perform
some additional um underground investigation um so we can determine any anomalies in in the Upland um soil material adjacent to that seaw wall um to determine if if there's any additional work um maybe into the roadway that that would be required um
so this is is definitely a high priority project for us that we're going to continue to invest um this facility is not insured so we are pursuing a femo project for this and then next would be our golfway roadway uh between first AV up up north
of 20th Avenue um to date we have completed about $40,000 of repairs um that's some of the asphalt Patchwork you can see in some of the intersections that were um severely damaged um but we still have about $2 million of work um left to complete we did have a
resurfacing project scheduled for golfway um in our Capital Improvement program um the design for that project is completed um so when we do um repair this road we do already have a a design shovel ready um in hand um so we're
we're pursuing FEMA um and and scheduling the site inspection so we can move forward with this project uh it's anticipated that our site inspections for the passag grill way seaw wall and this golfway project will both uh take place in
March next is a diagram from FEMA that just outlines um a flowchart of the public assistance process when we had our priority work session in December we were in that phase one portion where we were um identifying our damage and reporting that to to insurance and FEMA
um since then we have moved into into the phase two um we've completed our recovery scoping meeting with FEMA we have been assigned a a project manager that that will work through us through all of these various Pro projects over the next few years and boxton red is where we're currently at um scheduling
our site damage inspections from there um fima will corroborate their inspection data with our inspection data and then we'll move into phase three uh we we'll finalize the costing um and I would note um as previously stated Fire Station 22 fem inspections been completed as well as
our shuffle board Shack and with that I'll open it up to any questions thank you sir Commissioners commissioner moholland Mr Mills um so the there's a lot of damage on the old
seaw wall on pasac girl way um I mean it's obvious to the eye if if you look at it it was my understanding there was one section that we were particularly concerned about that maybe was at risk collapsing to a point where pass s way
would have to be shut down I haven't really been able to ascertain exactly which spot that is do you know that off the that that's around 12th Avenue um there's an area there where the sidewalk is is currently barricaded off so that that's the section of concern um what
what particularly the concern is is um the Upland soil material beneath That Sidewalk has migrated through some of the Leaky joints in that seaw wall and going out into the bay so that soil material that stabilizes that sidewalk is now gone and that's where you see
where the sidewalk has collapsed um when we did The Phase One Construction we did the the geotechnical um radar to identify any anomalies and that was an area where anomalies were identified so we wanted to come back and do a post storm scan so we can compare um what
that is and see if if that soil migration has um gone out into the roadway or not I had requested clarification um from your predecessor um shortly before you took
over it was my understanding I and I didn't know if it was the 12th Avenue um seaw wall but there was one of the sea seaw walls there that we were having issues with that was privately owned um which didn't make sense to me
but um the 12th Avenue was not privately owned no no sir okay yes sir uh I will say this there's one down I don't know the Avenue I want to say maybe fourth I I literally just noticed it this morning uh the the cap of the seaw wall all the
way down to the water is bulging um and I thought when I saw that today because I I was going to ask you this question um you know sometime in the in the near future about you know which one was the at risk of of losing
the road um but there's another one down there that I I mean it almost looks worse than 12 the 12th is kind of collapsed in itself this one is like bulged out and I want to say it's around 4th Avenue but uh it's from the seaw
wall cap like down to the water and it's pooched out so anyway I just want to make that comment uh so the 2.26 N million for Gulf Way
um does that include uh because You' mentioned it earlier as a priority project does that include the um what I'll call the boardwalk I know most people call it a sidewalk the boardwalk wall that will protect the dunes is that
included then that 2.26 million or is that a different project yes sir that that would um be included we would pursue that wall replacement um with FEMA right now we've we've packaged that up as one project that that we want to um pursue as we're doing you know the work within that full we would evaluate
it full right away width um yeah and I heard you say March something about that in March what March what we might know something from FEMA March we might be able to issue an
RFP or what what Mar March would be the date that we're um targeting to schedule our inspections with FEMA so they could come out on site and and look at the damage and then we can prioritize next steps so best case scenario that wall um
I'm less concerned about the road than I am the wall uh because of the dunes um best case scario that wall might start getting put up in June or July is that maybe a I'm not going to hold you to that I'm just you know want to get some sense I
would say best case um we would want there to be some sort of engineering design you know put forth to the wall we would propose it it'd be you know structurally designed um to support the dunes if it were to wash um through again but I think that would be the soonest that we'd be that we would see
something um as we're working and having these discussions with FEMA I think we need to explore some temporary measures too to see what options we have ahead of next storm season if that M if that construction wouldn't be completed by then so you're on board with absolutely
exploring some type of temporary measure where we not to be able to get serious action on that wall to protect those Dune so they don't end up washing out again and all the bad things that happened from that for a whole bunch of
reasons yes sir okay thank you Mr Mills thank you Mr Mayor thank you the commissioner commissioner Robinson histo this is kind of a hard question but maybe you might know historically
um what percentage has FEMA actually covered I can't tell you that from other cities any knowledge on that I mean this is basically this is disaster recovery funding from FEMA because we're in the nfip MH and that's where we're getting
that funding from because we're in the nfip through yep through their their public assistance program um but um I would have to do some further research to have an an educated response on that no I I figured it was a guess but I just didn't know if you've talked to any of the other cities that have as well were
in nfip and what percentage they you know uh got back or were able to get from the de Disaster Recovery I don't know if it's a you know 100% or 50 or um
thereabouts thank you okay um so we have a couple projects that weren't insured like the seaw wall correct and so what what do we do in a situation where we don't receive any federal grants or any FEMA or any state level grants um I think at that point we
would we would present to the commission to seek Direction on if you'd want us to pursue um using our general fund okay so now we're we're adding to the fire station to the sewer system
reclaim B and um these storm water as well correct okay thank you sir any further questions commissioner res Nikki any questions thank you sir thank
you good evening good evening Denise Sanderson interim community development director this is our typical presentation if you will um covering most of the standard items you've come to expect from this um presentation we'll be talking about permit processing inspections damage determinations and
the appeals process associated with that historic preservation applications current Staffing the volunteer program code enforcement their new hugs campaign and Beach debris so in the permit processing this was brought up in last commission meeting so I just wish to talk through this a little bit our
preferred approach is that all repairs to return a structure to its pre-damaged condition are included within a single permit that's easiest for us to approach in terms of review of the sisd package which must accompany very often the building permit application a note here
it may be a little bit different for Condominiums depending on their documentation alternative approach though may you may be able to submit for multiple permits but must disclose in each permit the total cost of repairs through the sisd package the the pro there of course is that it reduces the
risk of having high value open permits during Hurricane season one of the cons is that of course it's more labor intensive it requires that the pl examiner research multiple permits to ensure total cost does not exceed that 50% our current permit status uh to date
we've issued as of Sunday 1822 permits you can see there how the other permits are moving through the process of of intake through review um we're currently um issuing about 21 permits a day and I I'll note that specifically the the challenge there is that many of our
plans examiners are this Push Pull with other municipalities and so we're fighting to keep them on on our dime if you will focusing on our permits and so we're putting some pressure on them and I expect to see that number increase shortly we're averaging about 58 um Building Inspections per day we are able
to meet next day commitments on Building Inspections but I did want to talk through the policies associated with requesting Building Inspections and that is um all inspections should be requested only when all work to be inspected is completed and when requesting that inspection uh you need
to identify the date on which you in wish that inspection to occur there is a 2 p.m cut off for next business day and there are no exceptions to that if you enter for next business day after 2:00 it will not roll over and it must be entered again to get on the
schedule if there are outstanding issues an example of this is a notice of commencement is not yet on file or you've requested the wrong inspection a final electric before a rough electric as an example the request is denied again must be re-entered um when you've
resolved your issue there are no inspections currently on Saturdays Sundays or holidays and we're not able to guarantee specific time requests and most importantly upon completion of work get your final inspection and close that permit in terms of building inspections
these are typically what we're seeing as a result of the Hurricanes um for interior damage only in a single family single family residents you would often see rough electric plumbing and mechanical an insulation inspection a d W screw inspection and then final of those same Mechanicals of Electric and
Plumbing and then final building um we were just able to work with our permit system I work um our permit placards now beginning this week will identify only those required inspections that you must have and so that will hopefully clarify
for homeowners on that permit placard what inspections they must call for um unfortunately ior could not put them in in appropriate order but we are expecting um homeowners and contractors to pay attention to that permit placard and call for inspections as
appropriate as it relates to substantial and non-substantial damage determinations we've issued 2258 determinations 625 is our estimate pending from Title Basin and as you can see there the majority of these are non-s substantially damaged with about
1460 non-substantial in the appeals process um so far we've had 4 43 submitted 73 are in various stages of progress Zero have been denied and 370 have been approved some of those have been um uh taking a substantial
damage down to non-substantial taking non-substantial to substantial it's gone both directions the majority of which are of course substantial to non-substantial damage determinations we always recommend photos private Market appraisal if necessary and detailed cost of repairs to support that appeals
process and we may require an on-site inspection in terms of local historic designation and certificates of appropriateness you can see there we've had 47 applications submitted uh 33 have been approved 12 pending nine need additional information some of which can be quite extensive including a for
creation of a Florida Master site file and um forgive me I did have one I believe withdrawn there certificate of appropriateness we've had 10 demolition applications submitted eight are approved two are pending and restoration three applications submitted one approved one pending and one
withdrawn Elevate Florida this was updated to our website um yesterday brand new information coming out of Florida Division of Emergency Management and that is that the Elevate Florida application portal has been launched we put that out on social media as well please do encourage everyone to check
our housing recovery um support web page for more information where you'll find information about owner eligibility eligible types of construction projects some prioritization that the state has announced and then potential program benefits and contact information for the
state the city is not managing this program in any way shape or form stuffing allocation by type just draw your attention to the bottom uh lines there we did receive uh administrative support last Monday we have a gentleman U working on
substantial damage administrative procedures plan or um and in-house um administrative support helping us with internal Communications and documentation of our policies we also uh as of yesterday brought on 10 technicians that will be going out into the community working directly with
homeowners on sub they can conduct substantial damage estimates or reassessments they can do owner Builder permits and and handle appeal excuse me owner Builder uh paperwork I should say for permit applications and and the sisd review package as well as handle appeals
those on-site inspections if you will so um this is all tied to that mission request uh we did suspend the commercial SD assessments title Bas and largely handled that um but our new technicians coming on board yesterday will be able to pick up some of what may
have been missing there and as I said the administrative support So of the three Mission requests that went in two have been fulfilled and we've U Sunset if you will that Top Line there our volunteer program we have 26 active volunteers they are residents contractors and just very passionate and
interested people that have come into our community and have particular skill sets that are helpful they've all completed a two-hour training and they work in 4-Hour shifts um they've done wonderful job I think working with people and and sort of walking people through what can often be very complex
and intimidating so there as I've mentioned before they're preparing document working with homeowners to prare prepare documents uh they collect documents for drop offs so that you don't have to wait in line um for our intake desk and they answer a lot of general questions about the process they
they themselves have been through it um certainly we anticipate that um we'll utilize them going forward as ambassadors of what we're doing in in our office and support the programs and uh to outreach and coordinate for those technicians that have just joined our
team so the cord code enforcement hug campaign uh they're out giving hugs if you will and it's not really what this is is courtesy notices as I believe we mentioned previously notices of violation are being withheld until April 1st uh this um courtesy notice provides
identifies issue or violation that should be remedied and provides helpful useful guidance at your hug um um gives Waste Connections information refers you to information located on our website and contact information to discuss your options with code enforcement including extending of
deadlines just briefly on breach de debris we have three locations identified where sand with debris uh was moved to the beach um two of those 3804 and 4220 Gulf Boulevard those are landlord of the property line they've worked with d and have been have obtained permits and are removing the
sand 7,000 Beach Plaza as you can see there the city has roped off the pile to to keep people out of that debris pile I'll be happy to take any questions thank you do have mine on commissioner Robinson thank you Denise for everything
you've done with the volunteer program it's been awesome and I look forward to continuing to work with you on that and expanding that um and I'm happy to hear about the phasing so that's really good news because I know we talked about that and um just have more questions on that
though um how to if people have already put in permits is it too late for them to go back and you know if if they just started the process just put it in and they want to go ahead and do some phasing on that is
it too late for them to do that uh that would be unfortunately I can't say if it would be too late I'm sure we could work through that it may require a a resubmittal of building permit application so that the documents line up with a permit that's being issued so it may require a little bit of work but
I would say that it's never too late if a permit has not been issued okay and I think we can work on that to get some more information out to the public so that they're aware that this is an option now uh would would be great um also on the um on-site inspections for I
I've run into quite a few residents that have uh indicated you know uh little to no damage um and um are we still allowing the um the on-site inspections them to call to have an on-site inspection to verify yes absolutely now
that we have 10 additional people on staff that response time should be very quick okay and who and who do they go to they send it in through permits app they can also send it in through an SD appeal if they wish to do okay awesome and um I know on February 3rd on our community
meeting you also announced as well uh about and I don't know when that started but um for the owner Builder if their uh property is in Trust yes uh that that's going through the uh property appraisers um uh panel County property
appraisers office to what do they have to have a letter how does that work what exactly is that and when did that come about so a property appraisers office will be able to provide upon review of the trust documents potentially be able to provide a trust verification letter
so under Florida building code uh only owners of a single family or duplex can can can act as their own general contractor and so therefore a trust is typically looked at as a commercial Enterprise if you will Property Appraiser's office has taken a slightly
different Tack and is able to upon review of that trust and verify that whomever is occupying that home has the ability to make improvements repairs Etc has the authority to do so within the construct of that trust agreement then they will issue the verification letter and we're of course accepting that and
attaching that to the documentation so that we can ENT we can issue owner Builder permits yeah I've been watching the property appraisers website and I see things added because the uh bvr the building value reconsideration was an ad that they added that they never had before and this as well as a new ad as
well correct that and they've been incredible in that um until December 1 we had no way to evaluate a condo building's structure value in fact we couldn't get even get a condo units value none of which was provided and so they've been incredibly responsive it's
been quite remarkable actually and it's so beneficial to us to have that structure value now attached to condominium buildings okay I guess there's new things coming about all the time from every entity okay great thank you very much you're welcome well I have you still fresh on
this topic no you you you as well commissioner Robinson um so we spoke about the volunteer program and so you know you know huge kudos to commissioner Robin for coming up with the idea and we've got what 35 36 you know volunteers right
now who are in here at the front inside this room over here in a daily basis working from 9:00 a.m to 1 p.m. you know helping their residents helping their neighbors going through this process and as you were talking about the
hugs on permits um I I can't help but feel that maybe we could go a step further besides giving just hugs maybe giving a helping hand uh so I from what I saw a lot of the there were roughly about a 100 code violations that went
out um to some of our residents um you know that was unfortunate that was maybe a little overeager on some of the automated systems um and a lot of those were from what I saw debris related in a large part um is there a way that we
could maybe expand or look at expanding the volunteer program you know I mean I'm I'm a big guy I can shovel some stuff you know I'm not that good at paperwork and I would you know I'm sure there's a lot of people you know like me who would love to just grab a shovel
grab some bags you know get some dirt moving from people's houses take care of that stuff so that we're not waiting on you know FEMA's gone right they're not coming back you know Waste Connection will do it if we bag it up properly so at the very least we could do it in the way so is there a way that we could look at maybe expanding that
program so I would ask the city manager to jump in here as well if she would we have talked about that um our library director typically manages Beach cleanup kind of coordination these days and other volunteer programs and so we have had an internal discussion about how to
perhaps Implement something like that I'm not sure that we've landed anywhere with that it U it would be rather intensive for certainly Community Development to manage that kind of volunteer program I suspect that there's probably nonprofits or or church or organizations that may be willing to
take on some kind of course ation but we've really not landed on an approach or a process to consider though there has been some discussion about it I mean we have a list of the homes yes but it it goes beyond that um it's also those that have not entered the process yet with with building permit applications um we do know that
there are homes that haven't been addressed in any way uh people who are out of state or out of country and haven't come to their homes for those kinds of cleanup so we are anticipating that it's perhaps bigger than just the violation process I should note though if if we did Issue a viol ation we are
happy to extend those deadlines we really just need to hear from those who received the violation tell us what the plan is or that you need more time for whatever reason we'll be happy to provide that so the goal is compliance it's never to to take to magistrate so U
but we do need to have some measure of communication okay and since this was uh you know commissioner Robinson's baby Commissioners would you be opposed to allowing her to take the lead on expanding and working with the city man managed to expand the volunteer
program sure oh you okay with that or you not yeah absolutely okay commissioner Riki great thank you I look forward to working with you more commissioner malland uh yeah just real quickly uh I I
just want to uh say that uh you know the volunteer program uh it's really seems like it's it's a win every time I come to City Hall they like I never need them for anything I wish they were here when I needed them
for something uh but they've been all over me and not because I'm anybody I mean I come in jeans and a t-shirt and you know I am nobody I'm just you know another citizen but uh none of them know me they and they're always really
helpful how can we help you you know what do you need uh it's just you know really good to see and uh uh just today I mean the group that was there today there's three three gentlemen and they were just absolutely awesome like I say I didn't need them but uh there were
times I wish they were here so that's all I had to say thank you thank you sir yeah we we can't say enough good things about our volunteers I mean again these are these are our neighbors right helping neighbors I mean this is really what this community is about is coming
together when times are tough and I can say how much I appreciate that two questions for you sorry did you have something else well I was just going to say the next step in the process that we've talked about is expanding it to inhome because very much
worried about our elderly population and folks that aren't technically Savvy because the process is tough um the application's not easy um just understanding the process and we have people out there that are all they know is they've gotten a letter you know they're not internet Savvy they're not
on the internet they're not looking at and all they know is they've got a letter and they're paralyzed I I got a phone call from a resident um in District three whose brother lives in district one and I'm District Two it doesn't matter to me um but we talk through it and her brother's in that
paralyzed mode yeah um so I gave her some guidance we're going to circle back on it but those are the type of people that that need that that need that handhold and and just don't know how to do it and she had mentioned too that her brother had had some um older neighbors
that you know are walking around the community and they you know they haven't come to the city they don't know anything they don't know how to handle the process but I think the N extending the N uh the volunteer program out to a homebased and be able to help people at
home is huge I I will just I do wish to say one of my concerns with residents going into other residents uh we we do know that there's black mold out there and some some of these homes that were not properly remediated the 10 people that we have
brought on board have a vast array of experience uh they're in they're Insurance adjustors construction experts the like and they have appropriate PPE and so they are able and bonded and insured they're able to go into these homes I'm much more hesitant to put
potentially a resident at risk by going out to help another Resident where the property may not be properly remediated well any way we can help them I think we have to get out there to do that I just I don't want to leave anybody behind resident or business behind in the process um because again as I've been
saying we're February and we're four months away from Hurricane Season again and so we really need to to be able to get out there and do that and help everybody agre all right two two questions for you yes um so we've
seen two numbers are really stuck out to me in your uh presentation on where we are and the number of permits one uh looks like the number jumped up almost 15 20% from from the last report I think it went up from 2150 to almost 25 2600
so that's a huge up take in the last two weeks for substantial damage letters no no just for permits okay I'm sorry yeah 1822 is what's been issued and yeah no I'm saying the number the total number of requests right so we saw for some reason there's still a lot of permits out there right so if you haven't
submitted your permit you have until April 22nd 22nd for the the permit fee waiver right um and so on the permits I so the second number that stuck out to me was you know we we went from issuing you know 35 45 permits today to a much
smaller number about half of that yeah and and that is this past week um it was down to 21 um for the week on an average daily basis is it is part of that we're dealing with just more complex permits or is it just we're going lot of back
and forth or there's always a lot of or what's what's there there's always a lot of back and forth about 90% of the permits that we're receiving are owner Builder permits and most of them 90% it used to be 10% wow um currently so
that's the that's the current average um and most of them come in electronically and many of the challenges in getting them through intake are we're missing signatures notaries documentation Etc so there's certainly a lot of back and forth before it enters a review cycle um
but one of the challenges that we're having is our our vendors that are supplying plans examiners people are competing with those vendors other organizations are competing with them for their staff time as well and so we're putting pressure on them to continue to focus on our permits
okay so one of the things that I saw when I was in here with the volunteers a couple days ago is that if a owner Builder comes in they go to the volunteers they'll go through the package with them they'll highlight all the areas where there might be information missing or deficiency genes
they help them complete that or send them back home and say hey come back with this information so since we have so many owner Builders I'm assuming your recommendation is come see our volunteers first absolutely right yes have a complete package ready and that's
going to eliminate a lot of headaches for the homeowner as well because there won't be a lot of back and forth there'll be a complete package that we can submit to the building department that should also expedite how quickly we can issue the permit would that be a very much a fair statement uh yes we you
know I've been asked on several occasions can I provide a sample of a great owner Builder sisd package and they're very difficult to find there are almost always deficiencies and that puts us in a position the plans examiners have the authority to um to modify the
permit value based on their assumptions so in the absence of information they're making assumptions about actual cost of remediation and some of those other things so they have the ability to do that but certainly you can imagine that takes a lot of time and a lot of Sometimes some back and forth with the
applicant so right now if a owner Builder walked in tomorrow morning what is the average weight time to speak to a building official building official you're not going to be able to speak to the building official somebody in the permitting if you're in the in take um maybe an hour depends we have
very slow periods um quite often now and it typically gets busy around 11:30 12 this morning there were a few people waiting for 9:00 opening but it was not at full capacity by any means and if they were to come in and speak to a volunteer what's the wait time almost
never is there a wait okay so at the very least they could speak to a volunteer while they wait an hour correct okay and if they just have documents to drop off they can leave it with with a volunteer who has access to bring it in if you will through the back door and we can get it uploaded to a permit so document drop off can occur
with them as well okay um you had a section on I'm sorry I'm just I'm shocked by that 90% number I mean I would I would have been shocked at 50% but the fact
that so many people are choosing um that certainly put some color in some things um so there was you had a section talking about the fees for reinspection right so you if is that so what are those fees for is it if you pass your failure inspection if you
don't trip for the inspection what is it for right and and you know honestly I think that may be incorrect I think we are in fact waving reinspection fees um I can double check on that I think we are in fact waving those right now so um
but it is a problem uh very often we get calls for incomplete work um or certainly if it's if it fails because something doesn't me code then we'll have to go back out there but definitely encourage I the rule of thumb on inspections I would encourage all homeowners keep this in mind if you had
to open it up it has to be inspected before you cover it up so uh if you tore out drywall an inspection is required but before you do anything else whether it's insulation or electrical so keep those things in mind if you open it up
inspection is required somewhere along the way before you cover it up okay um could we get some clarity on the fees I mean I again the fact that there's so many owner owner Builders and I'm sorry whoever cell phone that is I'm going to ask you to turn it off again I ask
nicely politely please do us all the courtesy so that we can have this dialogue if you need to have a conversation please step outside have the conversation outside and then come back in when you're done um can we I'd like to get some clarity on
whether the fact that we have so many owners doing it on their own like they're not you know they're not building officials they're not contractors they're doing this maybe for the first time in their life ever and hopefully for the last time um you know I'm I don't have a problem
charging contractors they know better they're licensed and you know if they waste time because they're doing things incorrectly they you know by all means um but I think at the very least for homeowners we should have at least a you know at least a one time you know give
everybody an opportunity to at least you know one time address it and and wave the fees for that I I will get clarity before we post that presentation to the website so what we do Post tomorrow will will accurately reflect and I'll communicate that to the city manager and
commission okay all right any further questions thank you thank you all right uh since we have a specific item how many of youall are hear for
noise ordinance okay excellent love it uh since we have a specific discussion item for noise and I would hate for the public to be deprived of the conversation about noise um I would as it as we normally would do we have General audience comments next and then
we would have noise related or noise ordinance related comments at the time of the noise ordinance discussion um any objections to that no I mean that's how we normally would do it because it wasn't on the agenda it
wasn't noticed that way initially MH um I and and so many people are here to comment on that I would just ask that maybe we just move that to the next item on the agenda okay so you would like to make an amendment to the agenda yeah I'd yeah I
would like to amend the agenda so that the next item we discuss then is the noise ordinance so these folks don't all have to city clerk would you mind just clarifying what the Rules of Order are for amending the order in the middle of a meeting you have to make a motion to
amend and specifically state that and then get a second okay say how you want it amended so I would like to make a motion to amend the agenda to move discussion item uh 7
D to be heard uh as the first item after General audience comment okay is there a second okay motion dies okay I will make a
Amendment to the excuse me hey you're not going to hear what I have to say if you're clapping maybe you'll like better what I have to say because I'm going to make a a Amendment to the motion to move that discussion to go before audience comments so that you all get to go first
can I second it if I made the original motion I second it then okay city clerk if you'll please do a roll call on the amendment of the motion sure commissioner Robinson yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner res Niki yes commissioner Marriott yes mayor
patrilla yes and then city clerk if you'll please do a roll call on the amendment to the agenda yes commissioner res Niki yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner marott yes commissioner Robinson yes mayor patrilla yes yes
motion carries thank you all right so the reason I brought this item for discussion this evening was so I think sometimes there is of a lack of clarity and I think you may be addressing that in one of your
points later today uh you know how do certain things become come before the commission right how do we make changes to ordinances uh you know why certain rules proposed right and so generally the way the process works
is um so you know the United States we are a representative Republic our responsibility as Commissioners so these four individuals to my right and left represent their districts I represent the entire city
and it's their responsibility to bring before the commission issues concerning their constituents right that's how a representative Republic Works they we represent you right you tell us there's an issue we take a look
if there's a way for us to solve the issue whether it's administratively we'll take care of it if we have to do an ordinance we do it that way so generally that's how the process works right and then sometimes right you may get a lot of
people talking about an issue and say hey this is a really big problem in our neighborhood it could be a No Parking sign it could be a parking sign it could be a stop sign it could be a could be whatever it is right and then we bring it before the commission and we say what do you all
think about it we invite the public to come tell us what their thoughts are on it as we're having these discussions about ordinances and often times what we hear is rather one-sided right that's why we have two
readings for any ordinance the first reading is to give an opportunity to come and say okay what are they proposing here's the proposed ordinance right and generally the second reading very rarely do they pass without any kind of amendment almost every every
second reading there is some kind of change to the ordinance reason we have changes 99% of the time is because then we hear from the other side of the public right and we
represent all parts of ped Beach not just the one side or the other side but all of them and so that's why we have second reading and that's why often times you'll have several
weeks between ordinances to give plenty of opportunity for the public to come and tell us what they think almost every ordinance I get dozens of emails and phone calls and public comments because the public says okay we heard what you
said in the first reading we like it we don't like it right and then based on that feedback right as a representative it is my responsibility to represent my constituents and there have been many
cases where I felt a particular way about a certain issue but the public told me they want something different you know how I vote as a representative should I vote with my constituents my personal feelings on the
issue I will articulate them I will tell you what I think about something so that you know exactly where I stand but if you tell me overwhelmingly I want X and I would I would pref prefer Z I'm going to go with X because that's what a representative
does and I think for the most part that's how most Commissioners feel and maybe maybe the reason many of you are here tonight is because I'm naive to think the way that I think because when you look at the way
government works in most cases think about it right City County state federal how many times have you said to yourself I can't believe they just did that on whatever the issue it is and you may have written to your Congress person
and you may have written to your county commissioner and they still voted against it they might have received received 500 emails for something and five against and they went with the five right so maybe I'm naive to think that a representativ should represent
the 500 maybe I'm naive to think that we should be listening that I'm not here as a dictator to dictate how things are going to be in the city and anyone that thinks about running in this city if you think you're just going to tell us how it is and you're going to impose your
will that's not how it works if you think that way you shouldn't be in office right it is my responsibility to represent my constituents and so because of that you know over the last two weeks I've had a lot of discussions with my neighbors I may not have responded to
all of your emails I've responded to a few but I do read them I do read your comments on next door and on Facebook even the not nice ones where is he he knows who he
is right but the thing is this is about having an honest and open dialogue right it's not about me telling you how it is and I think the getting mad the screaming the yelling should come at the
point where no one's listening forget who had the sign back there if you're not mad right somebody had the sign if you're not mad I couldn't agree more with you if you're not paying attention if we were not paying
attention you should be mad because I'm mad every time I watch one of my representatives in Congress or in the senate or somewhere else you know they told me they were going to do something when they when they got into office they were going to take care of that and I never see them follow
through but I would also ask you until we've proven otherwise that we're Unworthy of your trust and faith that you at least give us the opportunity to hear you you give us the
opportunity to represent our constituents and so because I've heard you and I think all of us have heard you even though the point is simply we've heard you and so what I would ask from you
tonight as we're going to have these comments about the noise ordinance I want you to to keep two things in mind and I'm going to ask you to do me one favor I would like for you to help us come up with a
solution okay so the problem is real whether yall believe me or not I just went through my emails earlier this week and I counted in one instance just one bad Act had over 50 emails you know because and you know so
help me here how do I help the person and the people that have sent me 50 emails about a situation that is making their life miserable where they can't sleep where their windows are shaking at night I had one lady call me 11:00 at
night she was a cleaning lady from New York she sold her house when she retired and she bought her dream condo on the beach in St Pete Beach and she's crying because she was so miserable and so distraught because
it was the third or fourth night in a row where she couldn't sleep she took all of her life savings everything that she worked for until she retired she invested it in this one piece of property and she was just
miserable and hating life and I sat there 11:00 at night I'm thinking to myself what do I even do here what do I even tell this person how do I help her and if youch so everywhere yep so here I am
asking you for help and that's your response okay thank you so I'm going to ask you again for those of you who are actually willing to listen and help out and find a solution okay so you know what has been proposed and to make sure that we all understand what's been proposed I'm
going to ask the City attorney to clarify exactly what was proposed because it seems that whatever y'all have been told may not necessarily be accurate as far as what the actual ordinance says and then I would like for you as you come and you speak your mind
and you give us give us your ideas I'm genuinely interested in your ideas right I can't come up with you collectively the 50 hundred of us are going to have a better idea than the five of us by ourselves right so I want to hear your ideas how do we address the issues that
we have and how do we also address the concerns that many of you have right if if I hear what you all are saying correctly and correct me if I'm if I'm hearing you wrong what you're saying is somebody's telling you we're going to kill live music is that about
right okay so somebody's saying that there's going to be zero live music in St P Beach if this ordinance passes okay okay so that's this is why this is why we're going to have this dialogue right okay so help us here so I'm going to ask
the city manager sorry the City attorney to explain what the ordinance is I will tell you what my original well my initial thoughts and response to what many of you have said online is City attorney would you mind just quickly
clarifying what the ordinance reads yeah I'll give you a very short summary that some sums it up and Frames the issue at first reading uh there was a presentation and there was some deliberation and I believe the motion that passed at first reading to for
consideration at second reading would be to prohibit excessive noise that's clearly audible at a residential receiving property that's located 200 feet from the noise between 10 p.m. and
7 a.m. okay and then there was a a motion or or amendment to a motion it was seconded to have a daylight hours uh or daytime hours 7:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. to prohibit
excessive noise that can be heard at a resident's 500 feet away so again from 10 p.m. to 700 a.m. it's 200 feet and from 700 a.m. to 10: p.m. it was 500 feet and we also compared that
to the city of Tampa which is 100 ft from 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. okay thank you so most of the comments that I've heard specifically spoke about and even some of my neighbors you know said look
the 500 ft during daytime hours the reaction for most people was you know what I don't think we need that and so if I would as we bring this back at some point for a second reading I would look I would ask that the
Commissioners hear what everybody has to say again I would love to hear what your feedback is but my initial reaction is at the very least we should it's genuinely seems that none of our constituents care about the 500 feet during daytime hours and so that's what
the public wants I think that's what the public should get that is at least in my understanding of representative Republic that's what the public should get so I don't know what the rest of the commission or if you all just ready to hear from our public I I think that I I
think it would you know they're all going to be limited to three minutes a piece I think it would be excellent to hear from them um I you know when we spoke about this before I wasn't in favor of there being a distance in the daytime that was part of our concern and and uh um I will just say that at our
concert in the park last Friday I took a long walk around the neighbor Hood with my dog with my phone in my hand with Google Maps and and that concert was clearly audible in a residential neighborhood um at least a third of a mile away from the sound of the of the concert um and to my knowledge we've
never received a single complaint about that level of noise and so I think that that should start to give us a good guide of of what we're looking at um but but I I think that we've got a lot of people here who who have been waiting a long time to talk I think we should listen to them sure I'd like to say
something I mean I think there's other factors involved too it's not just the uh necessary the uh the length because there's other factors rol and buildings that block buildings that bounce there's
other things that are also um involved with with the length so there's other factors to consider with that no travels over water pretty well I live seven blocks away from and I can hear I can hear music I doesn't bother me personally I love live music um but
there's other people that live very close and it is an issue for them and we have heard and I've had heard repeatedly from people with issues the whole point is with this much passion there has to
be a way to find a solution I see it I've heard it I know it uh resin simp told me I've got both sides of it you know the the noise is too much I did other saying what you're doing is too restrictive and I get it and I'm here to
listen as well and as the mayor said it's representative so please I'm the first person to probably do a March so I'm happy everybody's here and like the mayor said it's great to see a crowd because it shows that you have passion
and that with passion you can make a change so my hope is everybody can work together be good neighbors help each other out and not have to go to extremes on either way and and that's my hope for
this so I would love to hear your comments commissioner moh thank you Mr Mayor the real problem is is no matter what it is in
life 100% of the people don't always act the way they should or they do things that is are is injurious to others whether it's driving 100 miles an hour on the interstate um you know you name it
there's laws for everything the problem that we have the code of ordinances that are that are on the books in this city and in many cities as it relates to noise is not
enforcable so if you have have one two three% of the individuals or businesses that are Bad actors we have no way to enforce that the the the ordinance are just not
enforcable so we need to find a way to have enforceable ordinances in order to ensure that people are not disrupting other people's lives and I I alluded to this at the last
meeting daylight hours many of the people in this room are much younger than me and some of the older people um probably stay up lighter than later than me 10:00 at night other than when I'm at a commission meeting
that's not daylight hours for me it may be for most people in this room but you know to say you know 10 p.m. at night is daylight hours well it isn't for all of us um you know that's kind of an arbitrary
standard um but our ordinance currently is very arbitary and it's frankly just not enforceable so you know hopefully we can find a way to
ensure that people can enjoy the beach life enjoy music without having one two 3% I I I see your sign back there very nice um that uh people can enjoy their
quality of life uh and when there's somebody that truly is acting up that there's some level of enforcement because right now it's a wild wild west anybody in here if you're a musician or your a business
that plays music you can pretty much do whatever the hell you want to do and you can get away with it that's the facts ah yeah okay all right you get you get one opportunity we
hey all right settle down settle settle down so so drug okay you get one that was a all right sir you will have your opportunity to see your piece
as well thank you in fact the city clerk is going to start calling names next okay so again I'm going to give you you got your first warning got your second warning there is no third
if listen to you guys talk for two hours now can we get wee Mr Mayor may I comment unless we've been talking about serious City business here and it's unfortunate that people don't want us to talk about
so okay so I think what the commissioner was trying to say is for 99% of the musicians in town we don't have any issues it is the 1% the same 1% that's keeping the other 99% of you guys from talking right now
so with that city clerk if you'll please call the names when you come up you will please state your name and address where you reside currently and everybody else else please be respectful and let them speak they will have three minutes to speak their
peace thank you Jeff Caputo if you clap if you boo if you cheer I'm not giving any more warnings please I don't want to do it good evening mayor patrilla Commissioners residents of St Pete Beach I I had stuff written here but you're
asking for Solutions yes sir so uh to your point you're looking at uh we might con content neutrality issues so the sound of a live band or a DJ that particular expression of music
is going to be different than a solo or Duo act with acoustic guitars so this thing hearing something at 200 feet 500 feet it's going to be different because you know a drummer a band playing rock music in right so your ordinance is
going to have to be content neutral the the ad Administration and enforcement of such is going to have to be content neutral in that respect because certain expressions like rock music is going to be louder than the you know girl singing
Whatever with her acoustic right right Mr I mean you seem to be a subject matter expert in this I'm assuming you're a musician of some sort I am would you mind if I ask you just a couple questions just to kind of help us understand your position better is that all right yes please okay um so as it is
right now the or refers to music after 10 p.m. so live music is not allowed after 10: p.m. already in the city uhhuh so I'm just trying to think through so how would after 10 p.m. how would this impact live music in the city after 10
p.m. I I can't really speak to that um I'm just saying like the way you have the the ordinance possibly written we we would need some form of I I I saw the agenda minutes there's you know you're listing health problems uh that people
could experience from noise M it would be great to see what information you're relying on upon which to base that ordinance um and then we're looking also at at cultural heritage like a a band could be heard at that 500 feet boom
code enforce that's a code enforce and then you're talking about a I guess abatements too right the general consensus of the commission is that if this comes back it would not come back with the 500 ft with that address most of your concerns or it would especially yeah with with
that distance taken um just just so that you all have a I'm not going to hold you to the three minutes right I understand I'm taking this is great thank you just just so you all rarely happens actually at commission meetings where we have a dialogue so I know that's not how we normally do it right and I'm not here to
fight with you I'm here to find a solution right I'm here to have a dialogue right and I think by actually hearing from you you're going to help us make better decisions right so just so you understand what happened a few minutes ago was the consensus of the Commissioners was which means is the
directive to the city staff and the City attorney is that if this ordinance come back it would be at the very least with the 500 ft removed right so the 500 feet essentially is no longer on the table
MH so no sir that it's so it's from 10 so what's still left so so we can keep you want to tell me more about the 500 ft that's okay I I'll listen right but so what's on the table right now is talking about how do we take care of people after 10 o'cl right so from 10 o'clock so live
music is by a spe it's a special permit in the city anyway and it's it's over at 10 p.m. okay and so then after 10:00 it's you know it's just general noise it's not related to music at all it actually has not the noise has nothing to do with
music it could be somebody sitting banging in a garbage can at 3:00 in the morning that you can hear 200 ft away or doing construction work with their Jackhammer or whatever I see them every Sunday and we have an ordinance against that as well and usually I'm just very kindly walk over and say hey look I just
I'm not going to report you but um right more practical Solutions go ahead and run the clock um so the uh thank you for indulging me I appreciate it that's very generous of your time to do that appreciate you too um look at some cases where there were
issues that actually went all the way to the Supreme Court costing taxpayers dearly which God forbid if that happens I mean I just saw this whole thing with what you guys are looking at so um look at uh there was a case Tanner versus Virginia Beach 2009
case they worked out some type of ordinance since 2009 obviously worked out city of St Pete had major noise issues in 2019 I remember that they were able to work things out it would be great if if legal counsil could actually look at hey what what did Tanner vers
versus what's Virginia Beach doing now based on that case so nothing does go to court um Kovac V Cooper was another case I was reading so um basically and and the fact that we have a cultural heritage here of live bands uh that
that's that's a grandfathered thing here MH that part of our culture um and just keep the First Amendment uh to free expression in mind in your deliberations CU I I don't I don't see any local governments talking about the Constitution I don't even see State reps
talk about the Constitution we you keep that in mind keep that first amendment of uh free expression the right of that grandfathering the cultural heritage we have of live bands keep that in mind uh look at the ordinances for practical Solutions content neutrality all of
those things and uh that's that's about all I can say I appreciate you all's time thank you thank you Mr capudo yep next Bill puit all right if you will please come forward they'll state your name and address please Mia
heartley okay if you'll please come and state your name and address for the record good evening my name is Mia Hartley I live at 680 71st Avenue in St P Beach District 2 thank you for for taking the time to
hear us this evening I understand there's a lot of inflamed emotions around this I'll take ownership of that myself that being said uh I do appreciate the introduction and the consideration of removing the 500 fet um I do find that to be a potentially
reasonable way to move forward with this um but I do still want to speak on how the ordinance was first introduced and how that first reading went because I watched that January 28th meeting and I think that's maybe what inflamed a lot of the folks that are here this evening and have something to say I grew up on
St P Beach uh I had birthday parties at Hurley Park I had band practices in Vena delmare I was on a turtle Patrol uh when it was just me and Bruno and his Willie Jeep way back in the early 2000s so been here a long time I'm a musician as well
I'm an attorney but I don't lead with that because I want to make a good impression on people so and I'm nobody's attorney here tonight I'm speaking only to my opinion um and what I heard so far um based on that January 28th meeting the new noise
ordinance as it was prepared and presented at the time I did find it to be extremely halfhazard and random and pulled out of thin air to take words from the city attorney's mouth uh regarding the 200 foot distance it was clear to me at that time
that the majority of the commission despite having had a week with the new ordinance had not reviewed the language of the old ordinance and I found that very concerning that we didn't understand the deciel readings uh that we didn't understand the time frames at that time and this was up for first reading and the lack of preparedness I
found disrespectful on my part as a resident of St Pete Beach that my commission wasn't aware of what they were talking about when this was brought to the first reading forcing a brand new ordinance through that first reading without understanding the language that was contained in the old ordinances because
there are two pertaining to noise again including that time frame deal meter readings it just demonstrated a severe lack of cons consideration for the serious implications that could come from imposing an ordinance with those uh with the 200 ft I found it most
concerning when the city attorney stated that she pulled the number 200 feet out of thin air I think that 200 feet has been the buzzword for a lot of people so at least hopefully let this be a lesson to the commission that if there's going to be a number presented like that that could impact the lives and the livelihoods of so many people who work
on this beach who live on this beach who have a livelihood performing music on this speech I understand there's anecdotes about you know pool parties and this and that I get that but wow the implications of this and the chaos that created right just to have that awareness moving forward when that first
reading happens Commissioners I implore you to not be outraged by your fellow Commissioners when they insist on making informed factually based decisions from that first reading thank you commissioner Marriott thank you commissioner uh rosinski for that um and
in closing let's bring St P Beach back to life because it's a community that's been struggling uh and whether whether it's rap music classical music or country music thank you so much EDM on my case but no one's perfect listen you guys want to clop
you're going to be here all night the first guy was good too all right so again I'm I'm trying to help you all help me help here right so city clerk Greg
primer going once going twice next an Dees no Christopher Horman if you please state your name and address for the record sir my name is
Christopher Harman my address address is 2816 Lum Place Tampa Florida 33618 um I am uh a forestate licensed Town agent I work with a lot of entertainers a lot of uh business owners Hospitality workers right here in s
Beach many of whom are C Beach residents and my myself a Tampe native have been uh performing here myself in book entertainment for 30 years actually so it is part of the St Beach culture to have live music I do appreciate your opening to this because it does feel like there's a dialogue that can happen
and I think that's what needs to happen and that's why so many of us were angry and scared because the way that first meeting went as Mia said it just felt like let's throw some things out there let's not even worry about how it's going to affect so many people many of whom are residents so I think that's all
we want is to come with something that is enforceable that works for everybody and that uh you know allows live music to continue because it's so important so uh we are all very passionate about that but definitely came in feel a little inflamed so uh I'm pretty worked at
myself right now if you can't tell so and I do this for Liv for years I talk on microphones to sing to people but it it's it's very scary is is the word I think you know that we're all very concerned of our livelihoods we're all down and out right now as so many people are but you know a lot of our businesses are not doing well and we're hurting so
the thought that we can come back is very scary so um that's all I really wanted to say and you know let's work it out let's make make this happen because I think there is a dialogue to be had to make it work to make it enforceable we don't want Bad actors giving us a bad
name I I raised my kids playing guitar bought a house playing guitar and many times drove over here I'm not a resident but drove over here brought my kids with me to watch me play we're not out here causing chaos on the streets we just want to be part of the St Beach
Community like we always have been and keep music going but do it in a way that is respectful because all of my clients whether it's musicians or venues that's part of the conversation is being respectful to the community to the residents and the tourists like but
that's who comes to watch us play so it is very scary at this moment and that's what we're trying to you know communicate and some of us are a little more overzealous than others but you know we do want to be respectful and have that dialogue and figure it out and that's all we really want so i' greatly appreciate you saying that before
because coming in it was like we're in trouble but it feels like there's a way to to work this out now and that's all we want to do so uh you know um I am a little worried about the thought that it's not able to be enforced I think that definitely there are many legal
instances that I've found myself not a lawyer that of cases where this is enforceable and then we can work it out and make it happen and like I said we don't want Bad actors holding us all back so please let's try and figure this out a way that works for everybody so thank you so much thank you Christopher thank you for taking time to come
tonight next comment please Curtis Woodard Curtis if you'll please state your name and address for the record hey what's up Curtis Woodard 6411 s Piper Way uh South Pasadena St Petersburg right across the bridge um want to
appreciate yall for addressing all the issues ahead of time um and being forthcoming with like you want to find a a solution to all this and um I guess a lot of us were kind of like up in arms about like live music being killed or canceled and I don't think that's the
issue at all I think I can totally see somebody coming here to retire and you know live their life you know and like they don't want to be disturbed by the noise of uh what the music is but when I first came here 15 years ago I stepped out on to pass Grill Beach and I was
like oh my God this is beautiful and then I went and I saw the live music like up and down the beach and I found the life here and I was like oh my God this place is amazing that's what drew me to this place is the live music and the the culture we have it's amazing look at all these people um so like I
don't have much to say as far as like me or Jeff you guys are very articulated thank you for that um but more me it's like the heart of St Pete Beach is not just the um the the scenery and the beach and all that but it's like the people and the vibe that we all create
by being musicians and um the original like the the major issues you said uh when we were first here like you know the infrastructure um the the seaw walls the fire department that stuff it seems much more important than like what we're
talking about here like noise and whatnot but um when it comes down to it like the vibe here is like what brings people here and that's what pays the tax dollars that fund those things um from before so it's without the vibe and without that you know what do we have
going on here like I don't want to be here if there's not live music I literally only go out if there's live music somewhere like I don't go out to drink or to eat or whatever I go for the vibe and like what all these people create and like whether it be the the bar owners the hotel owners um the the
people that run the bands you know the booking agents thank you Chris Haron all you guys um but I just love the vibe that we have here and the community that we have here and uh I know we can find a way to you know what whe the time or the um the decel meter whatever it is you
know the feet you know I think that's you know not that as important just like keeping the vibe alive and um just finding a we can find a way I don't have the ansers but like I know that we can do it so appreciate you guys that's all I got to say I love you guys thank you for coming out tonight and it sounds
like you genuinely care about the character of our community I do man I I moved here for a reason I could I could have moved anywhere else I've been all over the world and sure everyone's here's traveled a little bit and like this is where I want to live this is I love this place I ride my bike here all the time and right you know I appreciate
you guys uh being in public service and caring about this place as well otherwise you wouldn't do what you do so thank you apprciate you coming out tonight thank you thank you city clerk Seth Campbell have you please state your name and address for the record good evening
Seth Campbell 460 15th Avenue North St Petersburg um I was going to start by saying I thought we were all going to get a noise ordinance for clapping but it's never too late the 90 is gone you got the DB meter
handy back there all right please please start the desm meter now um I want to say I've played around the country I played in Nashville Austin Texas New Orleans um don't kill the vibe here because a lot of what makes those places amazing is the food the culture and the
music's part of that the beach is here fantastic amazing so what we need to do is don't harm that vibrant culture um I see babies all the way up to great grandma's great grandmas uh I I play music by the way out on the beach I play with my band and we play rock music DM
meters hate me I know I'm working on it but I also play acoustic guitar and uh DJ a little bit too so I mean I see people of all age groups dancing enjoying it the tourism economy uh from those people coming here and moving here um year after year brings that tax
revenue to fund those projects you were speaking about beforehand and we just had two hurricanes we need to keep that money going um study show live music actually increases Revenue 20 to 30% uh at bars and restaurants so it is important I understand you're not trying
to like kill the music all day um so you're trying to move towards what you do from 10 o'clock on well from 10 o'clock to 2 that's about 4 hours of music that goes on so if you have like a Friday Saturday Sunday going on that's
about 13.5 hours you you know times that for the whole the math is that's like about a month and out of a year that's Revenue that you're cutting out for you know money arguments um I did come up with some solutions um
adjusted decel limits instead of curfews um for the late night do something that I don't know what the feet you know appropriate feet would be but bring that uh the deciel the decimeters out make sure it's not too loud in certain residential areas that being said um you
can designate music zones or like entertainment districts um that way it makes it clear it communicates to people moving here that if I move here there's going to be music so if somebody if somebody came to St Pete in one day and didn't or St Pete Beach in one day didn't see any
music and um just bought a house here without that kind that kind of research um that's that's unfortunate but that's how it's been here for a while so maybe a clear communication of entertainment districts would be helpful um you can also do um does let's see
like soundproofing in certain areas um maybe if if a res a residential area is closer to an Entertainment District you could give uh either grants or like maybe tax uh incentives to businesses to do remedi to do sound uh Remediation in
those areas so I just thought I'd bring a few different solutions I haven't heard spoken about um otherwise yeah I was going to bring my guitar and play for you guys I just didn't want to get a ticket so sorry thank you Seth I appreciate thank
you for actually bringing us some some actionable items I mean I listen it sounds like you actually gave this some thought so you came up with some things that I hadn't thought of but I appreciate that and I think that's this could help us move forward thank you all thank you city clerk Taylor
Janssen if you'll please state your name and address for the record hi yes uh Taylor Jansen 3030 Irving Street Sarasota Florida um I'm a born and raised Floridian um originally was born in Bradon but grew up in Pensacola Florida another Beach town right a lot
of beaches and a lot of live music in that Community but I purposely came down to the St Pete area to a go to college and then I couldn't leave I had to stay here to play music and been here for about seven or eight years now um I understand that there has to be
enforcement without it there's chaos without it there just going to be yeah it's going to be loud it's going to be ridiculous it's going to make people's you know um their lives little more difficult but obviously there has to be somewhere of a middle ground and I
really appreciate you being open to that discussion and and addressing that before we ever came up to talk so when it comes to how can we go about that I am no genius in that matter but what I can say is this about before covid happened I had
way less problems with cops coming to my to my gigs and we're a rock and blues band and we're a little bit loud and I have no no stranger to having the cops show up I always try to go to talk to them with the management because I want to understand how we can help how much do we need to turn down what's the the
loudest part of the of the band how can we make it better my issue with the ordinance that is proposed is it's an invisible Line in the Sand for us musicians how are we supposed to know what we need to do with an with an actual decibel limit we have an
understanding of where that line is but with the distance how are we supposed to know that when we're on the stage how are we supposed to know what the what's going on 200 yards away and what the actual limits and sounds are to that when it comes to the enforcement of the
decibels I understand that yeah it could be a little bit difficult to get the the equipment out but I can get one on my cell phone right now just download an app and that's how most of us without that you know nice piece of equipment check our deciel levels to make sure we're not going over it so I don't
really know exactly what to to do to do as far as like say Mr Campbell he has some very good points but I will say this as a born and raised fidan there's always going to be issues with the sound and it being too loud on the beaches but that's what Florida beaches are that's
what our community is that's where our tourism comes from so many people come to this area to see the bands they love at the venues that they love and I think the reason why a lot of people are hurt today is because not only this it was a Blindside after we're still in recovery
from from the Hurricanes there venues one of who that's represented here today at The Toasted monkey they're still not up and back together yet so now it just feels like you're just throwing another another curve ball or another knuckle punch right into to the faces of of this industry so I really do appreciate your
time to that you guys listened and I I really um hope that you get to have some more time to talk to some of the um higher-ups in this this industry and Community because I think they have some great ideas and I really hope uh you have a great rest of your evening and thank you for your time thank you Taylor
like much like yourself I came to USF in '95 you can do the math and I never went home because this was my new home so I appreciate what you had to say thank you sir city clerk Bill puit if you please state your name and address for the
record uh my name is Bill puit my address is 3158 Avenue South St Petersburg um I do appreciate you listen to everybody it really does mean a lot um I I would like to have everybody look back at that 2002 ordinance um I've been
at Jimmy bees for let's see uh March will be 25 years now so I was there when we when the first ordinance came and I can promise you this we have always behind that bar kept a decimal reader and we always were very very strong on staying what that said at the
borderlines and everything but you know the the property lines can change especially out there on the beach when the winds come through it can we have it design there where we have the music block to send down to the beach and most of the time's okay however sometimes the winds change and might blow it towards
the condos or stuff like that um that does happen now Jimmy bees and many of these uh places that have the live music are in the L was it LR zone so they are in the live music Zone um you know I just want to make
sure you guys do look at that because I think as long as everybody stays with that it does keep the music under control I mean have you guys been to Jimmy bees it's a fun vibrant place it's still down um we got to get it back and that's been you know to reiterate with uh what the other gentleman said is
we're really looking forward to getting all that back and getting back to the way we were it's really people I mean they travel from all over the world to come here and to experience our culture and experience the whole vibe all up and down the beach at all the venues they
love it and we really need to get it back that's pretty much all I have to say thank you Bill thank you very much out tonight city clerk Jeffrey Jacob my mama calls me Jeffrey Jacob LJ
harness LJ harness recover an alcoholic wrong meeting I want I was told before I got here that you were tell to work with but I want to tell you you've been so respectful to us tonight it's allowed me
to take a deep breath I want to thank all of you for your hard work and passion and uh Joe I think you and I should go have a coffee sometime i' be very interested for us to have a one-on-one but I appreciate y'all
seriously I came down here in 1974 quit my part time job I quit Ball State University and I had an agent said I'm going to make you a rock star come down to St Pete I starve for the first year and a
half but what I've seen over 50 years the ups and downs of what we're talking about tonight St Pete Beach all the way to Clearwater Beach I can just go on and on and I've seen it like a roller coaster but after
what's happened the last couple years in the last six months I wouldn't want to have your jobs when I look here all this right here there is so much passion
here I've been gone for 11 years living in Las Vegas I chose to come back to St Pete Beach and that is 301 87th Avenue St Pete Beach Florida there is a lifestyle
that I know if I ask somebody when I go on a vacation one of my first questions is where do I find where do I find live entertainment the revenue that these people here bringing to this
beach I have no clue but it's big time the club Owners the businesses the hospitality there is such a family of and entertainers Hospitality workers that have been
devastated your example of uh the lady and tears that touch it really touches me it does and there's so many people that come here maybe so many months out of the Year blah blah blah blah blah but I know for a fact some of my brothers
and sisters have been here their whole life and they depend on making a living as an Entertainer or a musician yes I'm a kick-ass Rock and drumer but I have a lot of appreciation for someone playing a
cahon or acoustic guitar and uh I wasn't going to come here tonight because uh I'm usually in bed at this time after being up that's what I mean Joe you and I we can hook
up but for years I saw the sun come up in the morning from the night before thank you sir now I get up before the sun LJ thank you God bless you appreciate you coming out
tonight city clerk John kman Mr kman if you'll please state your name and address for the record in really zoom in so I can see everything thank you uh John kurman be
on the way so um Friday night's concert wa it's about the process um some residents object to something as you talked about and then legal trust come up with a cure but that cure may be worse than the problem and and then we're doing the process because then you
start to discuss that problem and you weigh it and it's only a problem if if you know you have deaf ears and you don't really review the situation um Phil Collins sound last week I measured it 5,000 feet away I could clearly hear the music so it's
it's not even just a third of the mile um the noise ordinance though uh opens a much larger door so even at the at the the nighttime uh you know we have to consider when people move into a nuisance it's not a surprise to them or they need to do their homework uh and we
can't just ignore ordinances and Trust the common sense will prevail that you know that you know OG you know people aren't going to going to complain I mean go downtown when the Janice has a concert you can hear it echoing throughout the city uh we didn't buy
Here many of us didn't buy here to go into a 55 and older community uh we actually like what's going on here uh we we want the entertainment it's not a surprise um you know maybe you need to focus on the decimals at the equipment as I heard the reason you didn't want to
use decibel was because there might be too much background noise you couldn't get an accurate reading so maybe the change instead of being a distance is focusing on decb but come up with a new decel rating just similar to what the musician talked about that he can measure it but add his equipment and and
and focus purely where there's a problem so for instance I thought this was about a particular bag actor in The cg1 Zone and we only have two cg1 Zones near the bridges so maybe you do need to focus on an ordinance maybe it is even daytime at cg1 because you have a particular
problem at a cg1 Zone affecting residents nearby so just focus on the problem you're trying to address um if you live next to an large resort Zone you know maybe there's going to be large resort activities maybe there's going to be people doing things on the public
beach you bought next to a public beach don't expect to change the beach this this was actually something that I didn't write but you know the realtor says the only downside of this property is a noisy live music venue next door that's okay we'll just buy it anyway and relentlessly complain about
it you know this this is not this is not new people do it at the racet tracks too so you know commissioner malland was saying you know musicians have been doing whatever they want and have been doing whatever they want well then if that's the case that's the usual and customary
who is it that's making change Jimmy bees has music every night at 10 o'clock starts live music I don't want to see that change I moved here because I like that a lot of people did so really it's the people that are trying to change things that are really you know that
that's the quality of life that's that's you know being affected on others people have a quality of life that we want and thank you John careful about that thank you thank you John city clerk Nick hogash okay if you please state your name and address for the record and
whoever's got that plug in the middle if you would please unplug it so no one trips over it sorry I'm done Nick gash 9425 blind Pass Road St Pete I'm your neighbor um I always preached listen learn and react
so tonight I listened I learned and I'm going to react I thought your opening dialogue was professional and the things that I was hearing um you proved them wrong um I think you showed that you're open-minded
and that's what I came here to ask you tonight is to please be open-minded to these musicians they know better than me um the only suggestion that I would make not being a musician um but maybe the rulle should
be a little different for Friday and Saturday night then Sunday through Thursday just the thought and my last comment was you said something that made me come here tonight about health issues well I have health issues I was on a
a ventilator for two months I'm one of nine people I'm the only one that lived um and I've been through a lot of health issues and quite honestly I go listen to Marcus and these guys perform and it makes me feel better so don't take that
away from me thank you y'all can clap for him clerk Dylan quow if you'll please state your name and address for the record uh good evening my name is Dylan wowski and my current address is
11522 60th Terrace seminal and if you haven't guessed by now I am a musician and like many of these hardworking people I've been blessed to make a living doing this in this community and that is what live
music is is community I have no idea why certain people got unhappy with the noise they were hearing decided to make us the bad guy but every single day we pick people up give them hope and give them light when they don't see or have light like that gentleman just talked
about and that is St Pete Peach is live music and to be honest you pretty much addressed my major concerns 700 a.m. to 10 p.m. that off limits 500 ft deci DEC reading should be a no-go Zone and and
by the way especially counselor mahand I'm been employed as a musician for 10 years precisely because I can't do whatever I want and every band that I work with every agency and venue we work very hard to follow the rules because that's good for business so I've I've
touched on the human part now let's go to the business part we just heard a lot about a $12 million new Firehouse a seawalls now correct me if I'm wrong those are not optional things those are things essential for the community and you know how stuff like that gets paid for tourism dollars and you know what
happens doesn't a lot of okay you want to talk about money being brought into the community your point is valid okay you're going to have less you you want to hurt the economy you can go ahead and propose vaguely poorly worded ordinance and that is the issue that we've had
when you say something so vague like what is reasonably loud well Common Sense isn't common obviously otherwise wouldn't be here talking about this ordinance so yes remove the 500 ft during the day that should be off limits and then 1000 p.m.
on I don't know of a single venue that has their ven their bands outside pumping loud music past 10 p.m. every venue works hard to keep it in an enclosed space and bands themselves if I'm playing on stage and I can't see the
bartenders hear what the people are ordering that's too loud that's bad for business so get rid of this ordinance make a new proposal and I think I think we'll be fine because again live music is the community here and I don't think
anybody wants to see that go away so thank you thank you Dylan and I'll I'll let you all in on the joke the joke is the tax dollars for the tourist development tax dollars 100% of that goes to the county none of it comes to the beach cities
it's un it's unfortunate the bed tax all that sales tax goes to the state of Florida right so the only thing we have is 14% of the residential property tax we don't even get we barely get we don't even get 80 we get 15 not even 15% of
that so that's that was the joke it wasn't that what you said was funny it was just that it's been a running fight with the county forever right because they do take the tourist dollars but they don't give it anything back to the communities that the money gets taken out of but anyway that's a different conversation for a different
day City Clerk Marcus Allen Marcus going once going if you please state your name and address for the record Marcus Allen uh 4510 Plaza Way St Pete Beach um I did I wasn't
going to speak today but I'm I'm a resident I've been here for 30 years and uh raised a family here and all be all with musicians dollars and up and down the beach especially St Pete Beach I love this place I love these people and
I can say I can say and knowing most of them personally to a man or woman not one of these people is not willing to you know to bend and see if we can do this together and I appreciate the fact that a lot of my points were already made before I even stepped stepped up here so thank you very much again for
offering to do that anything I can do to help with that I'm available thank you for coming out Marcus city clerk Dave araso if you'll please state your name and address for the record uh Dave rasma I currently live in Palm Harbor 6982
301st Avenue North yeah um I think there's some technical things that can be T taken into consideration not just with the venues but also the homeowners and the residents that that might be the people complaining You' mentioned the woman who had retired here from uh New York or New Jersey that said our windows
are rattling uh there was a venue just outside of St P Beach on Treasure Island called Beach nuts several years ago that so I've been playing on this beach a long time as well as many of the people here and they would get uh some neighbors calling and complaining about noises and I asked the the owners Gino and Jerry
what they did to remedy that situation and they said they bought that homeowner um soundproof windows so um and there's some other uh depending on whether that homeowner is someone who likes to maybe go out and eat and drink and enjoy music you could also give them maybe a little
bit of a bartab I think there's um there's there's Solutions Technical Solutions in terms of uh speaker placement the types of speakers you use soundproofing um anybody that's had I've had recording studios with Neighbors in in res not residential but commercial buildings where there's a nail salon
next door and we have to soundproof because they don't want their customers hearing what we're doing right so um you know there's there's ways of doing that whether it comes to you know Pockets between the drywall so forth there's soundproofing situations that can be taken in consideration um there's also
things called uh silent discos that I've heard about I haven't gone to them but people apparently just wear headphones and if you take your headphones off it's as quiet as more quiet than this room y so um you know there's technical ways to address this both on the who's making the noise and who's complaining about
the noise side of it so all right that's it thank you Dave have a good one thanks for coming out tonight city clerk Casey Allen if you please state your name and address for the record my name is Casey Allen uh 2825 53rd
Street South Gulfport um I'm born and raised here in St Petersburg um grew up on St Pete Beach and so when we talk about Community I I'm very passionate about the community and um I'm seeing a big change in
culture um especially after 2020 um seems we have a lot of people moving here and maybe not doing their research on where they're moving and what they're getting into when they move to St Pete Beach which is since I've grown up here has been a beach full of Tourism that's
what it is and that's why people come here and they come here for the live music and they come here with their families for to bring like happiness create memories um and all of us in the room here are the soundtrack to their
experience to their travels here um and it seems that I assume that a lot of these people that are complaining about the music have probably just moved here um because it's kind of interesting that all of the sudden it's become become such a big
issue um and it's just an idea of maybe maybe you shouldn't really be allowed to complain about the music if you haven't lived here more than five years because you you obviously didn't do your research where you moving so I don't think it's fair for somebody to
just move here and then be able to come compl and and you know change the environment just for themselves not caring how it's infect affecting everybody the businesses the culture um that just the whole experience of St Pete Beach itself that's like somebody
said that's what St Pete Beach is it's live music it's tourism um and we're all the the pulse the Beating Heart for that here um and so yeah I hope we can figure out a solution um to figure this out because
without live music what's what's this place going to be um people aren't going to visit here the word will get out on social media it'll it'll it'll be a very boring place and it'll affect all the all the um the hospitality
industry and we take this very seriously this is our living this is our livelihood we're professionals I know you said we we get to do whatever we want and um like Dylan said we work very hard to be able to do that we we don't just come in and play
three or 4 hours music we're not just you know hippie playing music we take it seriously we're artists it's it's it's our purpose and so yeah we came in here today very scared because we did hear that about the
daytime um issue um so it's good to hear that that's not really a thing um because also the um cost of living here is doubled and we're struggling and it seems like it's interesting that this just came up at a time where there's no
live music at all we're being kicked while we're down so that's it thank you than you Casey Mr can I make a comment please if you if you insist I do insist thank you uh I just want to set the
narrative straight um many of us have actually lived here for quite some time and many of us do a lot of research when we buy properties and sometimes uh situations happen around us after we've bought a property uh that
has a severe impact on either our business or our residents so the narrative that uh uh many of us uh weren't smart enough to do research before we bought our homes or before we
bought our businesses uh certainly there is some of that there's certainly many people that I won't even go to the flood elevations but uh many of us have done a lot of research before we bought properties uh
so to say that you know we bought next to uh a loud uh music bar that we should have known better that's that that narrative is not 100% accurate so uh there's there's more to that story than
that so I just wanted to make sure that that wasn't the only narrative that we left here tonight that everyone uh knew where they were getting when they bought their properties uh so thank you Mr Mayor thank you sir I will say I've owned my home for 32 years longer than
some of you were probably in Diapers at that point and I've seen and I've seen the beach change from a bazillion things and it was what was it uh uh before it was ever uh there was oyster shuer was where buoys was and uh Woodies was the sunset
Tavern and then um what else did we have oh uh it was uh not Charlie and Dick's Oasis was where toast toasted monkey was and it was all enclosed so there's there's been some changes since Gall the G oh
love the gallery love the gallery yep remember that yep Sammy Sammy at the gallery yep yep so been here a long time so there you know it's kind of unfair to say that about people moving here you know or telling us to leave cuz you know
because of the music I think if I if I may I think I think what their point was simply was that they also said it's unfair to lump them all in together if I heard you correctly right that it isn't as you've all many of you have said 99%
of you you know you know what the ordinance are you make sure you are respectful and I can't tell you how much I appreciate that with the gentleman from Jimmy B's you know I can hear you during the daytime at my house I can't hear you at night and I've been there at night and I can hear you when there so
whatever yall are doing with your sound engineer it works the businesses I I think y all should get together and have a chat with the gentleman at Jimmy bees and say hey what are you doing what is your sound engineer doing to help with the Acoustics help with the sound deing help with you know because a lot of
times it's not just you know the the high pitch stuff doesn't you know travels fine but a lot of times it's the low frequencies which is where we have issues with the DB meters right you're running at 120 hertz you know at full gain you may not hear it but you're going to feel it and that's the rattling
Windows right it wasn't there's no you know so that's the issue so I think if we get some help I mean if we have you know just like with our volunteer program that you all heard us talk about earlier if we have some many especially some of the businesses that are rebuilding now is a great opportunity to build it in from day one right so that
you know play until 2 o'clock in the morning not that I've been there till 2 o'clock in the morning more than at least two or three dozen times right city clerk Matt fiser going once if you please state your name and
address for the record Matt fiser uh 471 85th Avenue St Pete Beach uh I also Own St Pete guitars at 6630 Golf Boulevard St Pete Beach um so I'm looking at this I think maybe
from a little bit different perspective I own a business that the way you guys serve our community that's this is who I serve um I hear every day how challenging it is right now for local musicians I mean my customer base basically breaks in down into two
categories tourists who always ask me where can I go see live music and local musicians who to be perfectly honest I mean a lot of them I haven't even seen since the storms they're not buying strings they're not getting setups on their guitars because there's no work
the the places where these people play don't exist so I think we'd all agree as a community we're struggling we're hurting we haven't recovered yet this community of people is struggling more than anyone and typically we're not the most affluent people in our community we
struggle to be here and serve this community right now that being said I also think that it's important to note that some of the most talented musicians in the world and in Florida choose to live and work here at this beach that's special this doesn't exist everywhere
and all it would take is to be slightly more restrictive to force these people to start playing in Safety Harbor on Friday night we don't want to lose that so I'm challenging you guys as a commission protect what we have it's super important it is the lifeblood of this
community if you want to see this community not survive the storms be more restrictive I would challenge you to think about ways that you could potentially you know loosen the restrictions on Friday and Saturdays give these people a chance to survive
this help us to grow as a community help us to bring other musicians into this community um you know and as a resident I will tell you I'm living in a camper in my driveway right like a lot of people I'm not I'm not special but I
will tell you the one thing that brought me some joy and made me think that you know it's still a good idea to live here and it's still a good idea to to be part of this community after losing everything I own was when kki opened and I started hearing music from my backyard
more than 500 ft away I might add I haven't felt that good in a long time I hope to hell they play it until 2 o'l in the morning every single night it's the one thing that makes me realize that the thing that I loved about this place that made me move to this place still exists
and if we do things that even just a little bit make it harder for us to do that this won't survive this is special and it's fragile and if we don't nurture it and support it and make it easier for these guys to come out here and do the hard work that they do to bring this
Vibrant Community to life it just shrivels and dies and that's happened in countless other communities when I moved down here from Safety Harbor they were fighting the same battle and the one thing they had to decide was what type of Community are we they're the type of
community that that Embraces this I hope we thanks for coming out tonight city clerk John Diddy if you'll please state your name and address for the record two two my name is uh John Didier stage name John Diddy 1969 Dunlow Circle
Duneden Florida uh I'm a local musician here in Tampa Bay I've grown up in Tampa Bay raised in dun Eden and have been coming to St Pete Beach since I was a small child uh now courtesy of Chris Harmon and Street Spirit entertainment
I have played St Pete Beach multiple times and uh I want that to continue I'm going to share my experience with specifically the city of dun Eden and what just went down last year with
regard to them amending their Sound Ordinance for clarification I believe specifically that the 500 ft are ridiculous metrics also having a statement of just excessive
noise leaves so much ambiguity and that's not necessarily to you guys or to us but the enforcers which are penell County Sheriff's Office I believe for St Pete Beach and this happened specifically in Duneden without without
specific decible readings and places to where these decible readings need to be taken place uh in addition to the type of deciel meter which dun Eden uses an aeed decibel meter this needs to take place so that there is not confusion
with the rotating cast of officers that represent pelis County Sheriff's office around the entire County you guys just like dun Eden are not privileged with their own specific Police Department that probably lives near the city and
specifically knows their law laws and uh specific amendments that the commission Andor city manager has put in place so I do think that it's extremely important to have metrics scientific metrics that are
readable also to stipulate with regard to Dun Eden the measurements are taking place prior to 11 p.m the deible reading is taken at the property not the yeah the property line of the complaint
after 11:00 p.m. it's taken from the property line of the business and I think that that is extremely reasonable for dun Eden mind you that's at 1100 p.m for Duneden personally I've always felt
that St Pete Beach was a little bit livelier than dun Eden dun Eden's a little bit sleepy and this ambiguous language that takes place in the code for safety Harbor is the reason why they are struggling right now to Wrangle
these issues there um otherwise as Julie W bajowski said in this meeting to one of the complainants they've known for years that the adjacent property was zoned mixed use or commercial thank you guys for your time I appreciate you thank you Matt I appreciate you coming
out tonight city clerk next Lee Pond all right if you'll please state name and address for the record good evening my name is Lee Pond I live at 2 three 46 Druid Road in clearw I also work here at St P guitar
shop at 6630 GF Boulevard here in St Pete Beach uh I've been a musician here for decades I came here from New York I was on the road it was I fell in love with this place it was in my 20s I got out the road and stayed here as a I have
two degrees from juli art music I played everything from Margarita Ville at the Corner Bar to gerswin with the Florida Orchestra um first off I take offense to the word noise what I do is not
noise what I do is not to be lumped in with a guy banging a garbage can at 3:00 a.m. in the morning you know I think and I think any other artist here would feel the same way you know if first thing you want if we want to amend anything let's remend
the name of it want we get a Sound Ordinance a music ordinance whatever but noise is insulting I know a lot of insulting terms I can use for public officials we're not doing that tonight you know and I'm sure you guys do too you
know um the problem is how do we how do we solve this does it have to always be the um the business or the bands themselves what about the the buildings where people live the
residences isn't can we have a code that if you are in a certain District where live music is going to be and a lot of these bars have been there decades I played at the gallery years ago you know it's a little shady you establishment now I wish wasn't there but
whatever you know years ago I played there it's been there for decades we said someone Joe said about you know no one does the research unfortunately you Pro right you've lived there for years but a lot of these complaints are coming from people who don't live there for years and the bars on the club venues
have been there a lot longer than the uh than than residents happen you know another question I have what about City uh Endo uh concerts and events are they going to be exempt because a lot of cities do that
they'll have this ordinance for the businesses but themselves it's a whole different story so again are you going to hold yourselves to the same Ordinance do you plan on that have to you know um at 10:00 so we're not Joe's asleep at 10
o'cl we're not having any parties believe it or not I'm old too it's like I am also be asleep tonight I should be falling asleep now but um again like I'm saying we should you know we need to find all technical ways of dealing with the sound
placement you know um speaker placement in St Pete or I should say Pete proper the for outside venues there's speakers are supposed to be on a pole above over ahead and point at a 45 degree angle toward the
ground right that's that's not an unreasonable request M you know and that can help in in huge ways just that alone um it's it's it's like I said this has been here for years we have we have we have a culture we have a community we
have this is all based on this thank you we have to continue on this have apprciate you're coming out tonight thank you thank you Lee city clerk Tito D if you pleas St your name and address for the record my name is Tito Vallejo 6911
intere Boulevard Tampa Florida good evening Council and your honor I just want to say a lot of what I was planning to say has already been mentioned has already been stated so I want to reiterate a few things first of all dropping the 500 ft segment of the
ordinance is huge to go towards mitigating the fear and anxiety as you've already heard from a lot of our community so thank you for that but more than that I think that it's uh just the
arbitrary words and measurements that were in this ordinance and councilman malland uh admitted that it was arbitrary in your in your statement it was around 7:48 p.m.
today um so if if we know that it's arbitrary let's let's fix that there are ways to measure this and you uh your honor you mentioned that you like EDM so you well know that if you don't have low end if I were to turn off the
subs at your concert you wouldn't feel like dancing but you also know as you mentioned that low frequencies propagate in a different way than high frequencies so rather than just using arbitrary terms and arbitrary measures
which will be difficult to enforce as has been mentioned let's use let's employ the the expertise of experts which clearly we have here and if not I'm sure the city or maybe it has to be the county I don't know how your
finances work there employ an expert audiologist acoustician sound Engineers something like this so we have actual enforcable measurements and readings and measures that is the basis of most of
the fear and anxiety if we say you can't have any noise well what is excessive noise what is realistic what is this and that I do agree that 200 feet is uh absurd if you understand how the physics of sounds Works uh which I I have a
feeling you do if you understand how the physics of sound work 200 feet is not reasonable it's not realistic certainly not for lowend the councilwoman earlier mentioned that she went to a concert and at a third of a mile she could hear it but she hadn't
you haven't received complaints with now we have numbers now we have facts and data that we can use to implement this now I understand understand you have to serve your residents but while someone moves down here from New York City and I I'm not
saying that the solution is to ignore this one person but you don't change the entire ecosystem financial and cultural ecosystem of a city just for one person like that what happens when someone complains repeatedly are there any
disincentives for someone who is uh constantly complaining thank you sir thank you thank you for coming out tonight city clerk if you'll please call the next name Grant Izzy please state your name and address for the
record Grant Izzy 203 59th Avenue um I am not a mus musician I did play the trombone when I was in high school but um not for very long because I really wasn't that good at it so I do appreciate all the people who came out
from the Comm Comm today and I'm actually very um I feel very positive about the whole discussion tonight I thought I thought it's been very good I I commend you for listening um and accepting some
criticism you know and feedback and so I I would just like to add just a little bit more of that in order to not only help this this issue but any of the other issues fac in our city right now
the reason we are here right is because we didn't have this dialogue or take the time to have the dialogue before we did the first reading of the ordinance right there's an old saying in
leadership poor poor leadership right you might have heard this ready shoot aim how many times are we going to shoot before we actually aim to get something right I believe you're going to get this
right this this ordinance I believe it because you've taking the time to meet with folks and I sincerely believe you're going to you know do more of these discussions but that has to happen across the board with all our issues okay I didn't come here tonight
to talk about this I'm going to talk about permes later but it's the same concept we are a community and the only way this community is going to pull through from this crisis is if
we talk to each other before we start making decisions because this ecosystem as someone mentioned is important and we are not going to get back on our feet unless we're talking to each other we need to be in touch we need to
be in touch with everyone in this community and this didn't have to happen tonight it was totally preventable so I'm just asking you to aim first before you shoot in the future thank
you thank you sir in case you all didn't know he's running for office so city clerk Rob suzan please state your name and address for the
record Robert is on 4506 golf bard I want to make sure the musicians and everybody at home are watching this and they're paying attention to actions over words because I want to see I want to explain what happened tonight so tonight
we came here and the noise ordinance wasn't actually on the agenda so because it wasn't on the agenda everybody had the ability to speak at comments at a at audience comments but because the mayor then put it on the agenda and put it
last on the agenda it wasn't going to be until midnight or 1:00 in the morning I don't think you guys really realize that so as good as this mayor is with his elegant words and you know kind speaking about democracy and wanting to hear everybody he really didn't want to hear from you guys today he really didn't he was actually trying to shake you guys
out so especially having the efforts that they showed in the beginning with the two-hour presentation that usually comes after the audience comments but it was purposly put in front of the audience comment to shake many of you out and Kudos two guys for actually staying around and not being shaken out
but this mayor you really have to watch him because he's really he says one thing but actions speak louder than words and his actions today prove to everybody that he says he cares but does he really care I don't think so so between us we shouldn't even be here Mr
Mayor we should be focusing on recovery for the residents so this is absolutely ridiculous that we're even discussing this ordinance the beach ordinance sign ordance all this other stuff you're coming the fire department needs our help the residents needs our help that's what we should be discussing not this
not wasting all these people's time my time the commission's time so kudos to miss Marriott and riski for bringing this addition much quicker up so we didn't have to be here at midnight so thank you for voting to get this done but before I finish with this I had a pleasure of speaking with a sheriff
about two days ago in regards to this exact ordinance and he gave me a good example he said thankfully because there's a decimal reading some did not get cited there was an incident at Zamora and San sier actually called Anor because of the noise Sheriff actually came to saner the window was open and
the gentleman was complaining they can hear the noise Sheriff that got the decimal reading and he was like yep I can definitely hear the noise and he showed them the decimal reading he also showed him the decimal reading of the cars passing by The Cars passing by were actually a louder decimal reading than
the Zamora noise or music that was coming from Zamora so if there wasn't a decimal reading at that point that hotel the zamore at that point would have got a citation because of the noise ordinance the way you're trying to pass it there's no doubt about it there needs
to be a decimal reading technology should be used it's to our Advent there's no reason we're going back in time and not using technology so decimal reading are you paying attention Mr Mayor Mr Mayor you have your time okay I'm just making sure you're paying attention because you were so much paying attention to everybody else but
when I'm calling you out you're really kind of doing your own thing so this again actions louder than words so I want the residents to realize who our mayor is here is's also propping lease up as well with all these comments of hers so thank you for your time let's save St P Beach and let's recover St P
Beach thank you Robert and here is the uh agenda from the last commission meeting just so you can see that the presentations always come first before audience comments so what he told you knowingly was incorrect and I'll take I don't take offense to anything he says
except for one thing my grandfather spent two years in the gach because he spoke against the government my grandfather climbed through barbwire and mud in a Minefield leaving his six-month-old son me in the middle of
the night do you know why so he could be in a land that is free where he could speak his mind even against the government and so you can say whatever you want about me that's fine I got thick
skin but do not ever question question my love for this country and free speech and that's why we sat here for the last 3 hours and listen to every single person you do not have this you do not have this in any other country you had
your time sir and I let you speak in though we normally do not allow personal attacks but I want to make sure everybody had the opportunity to hear you speak so that you can speak your mind because I do believe absolutely and the free expression and freedom of speech and you have it and you should enjoy it and should be thankful for
every single day so I'm happy to have any conversations but if you want to impute my Integrity on that shame on you next person Carly Johnson if please state your name and address for the
record hello my name is Carly Johnson 10288 1110th Avenue North Largo Florida um I just wanted first forem mostly thank you for letting us members of the community to have the ability to talk to you guys about the concern that me and a
lot of my best friends back here um have about the noise ordinance so my myself I'm a musician along with my band members back there we were scared to death when we heard about this um knowing that we hadn't been able to play
Jimmy bees or toasted monkeys since midt due to the hurricane was obviously a huge hit financially for a lot of us um and this new noise ordinance was going to be even a huge concern because we
didn't think we would be able to play music at all after that so we kind of were gearing up to okay um should we look for other jobs because this is what we do full-time we don't do anything else we don't want to do anything else this is what we love we love St P Beach
my mom and dad moved here in the' 70s and my mom went and saw bands and now that I'm playing at bars that her friends used to play at it's it's fun it's it's a crazy thing to see your daughter do what your friends were used used to do and my 90-year-old
grandfather came here to Jimmy be's at a place that we play at after 1 p.m. and he has a lot of different health issues Alzheimer's hearing aids is not mobile he got up and sing a song at probably 11:00 p.m. and he had no issue do doing
that and I'm sorry for the people that do have health issues and are going through XYZ but we don't play until 10: p.m. at at Jimmy bees we go till almost 2 a.m. Friday Saturdays and even during
the week so to take that away from us it's it's taking away a huge pay cup from us it's taking away our livelihood our freedom our just what we enjoy in general and I feel like it's going going to harm tourism it's going to harm a lot
of things in St Pete Beach St Pete in general it's going to harm businesses it's going to harm our booking agent shout out to Chris Harmon who spoke earlier with stre uh Street Spirit entertainment and I feel like it's just not a good move and there has to be
other ways to work around it as Seth was saying earlier maybe with um the decb or soundproof like the windows or something like that just working with what we have instead of banishing it
completely I think is a horrible move and I also want to speak to Mr Joe Man Holland um for grouping us into saying we can do whatever we want I believe is completely disrespectful and I do believe that we are deserved an apology
and thank you for your time thank you Carly thank you to and your friends for coming out tonight city clerk Tanya Navaro if you please state your name and address to the for the record my name is Tanya Navaro my
address is 10815 Cedar Street Riverview Florida so I have a babysitter on the clock since 4:30 my husband and I are both full-time musicians I actually don't make the majority of my money here on St Pete Beach I'm mostly an event singer um but I have had many years
especially right after covid where Chris Harmon saved my butt because I have three young kids at home and a fourth on the way and my husband and I thought that it was worth it to come out tonight in support of all of our musician friends
who this is their livelihood and I heard a lot in this meeting about especially at the beginning about the residents and about their quality of life and I think it is worth consideration about the musicians the business owners and everybody else who
works on St Pete each and their quality of life I don't think it's fair to say that one supersedes another and I think that equal consideration needs to be given to both as someone who has worked in the industry and I've actually attended similar meetings like this in the city of Tampa uh for businesses that
were in residential areas I actually spoke on behalf of a another business that was having big time issues with their uh residents nearby saying that the that the music indoors was shaking their Windows which is just physically
impossible there weren't even sub buffers inside um but you're always going to have residents that are not happy you're always going to have people that are unhappy I'm sure no matter what you decide you're going to have musicians that are unhappy and you're going to have residents that are unhappy there's no way to please everybody and I don't envy your position because you are
beholden to all of us and I can really appreciate your position um but what I would say is uh you can't have an arbitrary or ambiguous measurement it has to be a real decel limit we play at a ton of venues for weddings like the
Bishop Museum where they have manatees and tanks across from us and there's a 70 DB like for which is ridiculous it's a room full of people talking but that's what their rule is and it's it's a hard measurement that we can adhere to because without that kind of limitation
we can't possibly even attempt to make people happy so that's what I came to say I think Seth Campbell had a lot of actually really great ideas um but but please give us a way that we can physically and scientifically measure to make people happy the city of Tampa did
extensive research I know you cited that theirs is 100 feet and what their limitations were but before they made any of those decisions and I researched this thoroughly they brought in experts they did studies and based on their infrastructure and I think that it would really benefit you to do the same so
thank you so much thank you Miss Navaro Tiffany please call the next name Tiffany Bender if please state your name and address for the record um my name is Tiffany bender and my address is 4280
70th Avenue North uh St Pete Florida um I'm going to read most of this just off my phone because I was unsure if I should speak um but everyone had very beautiful things to say so I figured I could share my heart um first and foremost I do want to thank you all for taking your time out of your day to
speak with us and um let us come out and speak because everyone did come out and show their support so so I think that's awesome um I don't necessarily have a solution um I did like what Seth Campbell had to say he did have a lot of uh good ideas there um but I did want to share my heart um so I personally find
music cures the soul and mind in many ways I feel like music is a beautiful thing that brings people together it brings joy and happiness happiness amongst masses um to put an end to group fun because of a few complaints seems rather silly to me I believe quality of life is affected not by or by not
finding Joy within yourself not from noise from Neighbors and I I'm just going to leave that at that but I do think uh quality of life is kind of based on I I can understand maybe excessive noise but quality of life really is just based on how you choose
to live it um I do not personally believe that my neighbors or public nuisances are more than just a bother to me occasionally or should affect me enough to want to put an absurd end to to Joy that others are having um the new ordinance can be seen as is very biased and has no real measure that makes sense
to use um many people come to the beach to have a good time and when I think of beach I think of party um I don't think we will ever be able to control everyone nor should we and respect is usually learned throughout experiences I think we've all had a party phase in our lives
uh the older I get the less interested in that I am but I have to think that that was once me um I was once young younger I was once learning I was once growing I still am but now in different ways um I've been blessed to find my path as a musician like many of the other people
here tonight um I'm blessed to be in a city that of St Pete that has such a thriving beautiful music community that brings wonderful Souls together where we get to leave our fears our sorrows and our thoughts behind and groove with the music um this is a place where I have
not just been able to perform but I've been able to see my own favorites and been inspired many times throughout the years I've lived here um without some of those late night late night noises some of my favorite and most incredible experiences would not exist thank you
appreciate it guys thank you so much for coming out tonight city clerk I have no other cards okay thank you so that closes the conversation on the uh well that closes the public comments on the
um on the what shall we call it the Sound Ordinance who said that Sound Ordinance right all right uh so I'll take it back to the Commissioners uh Commissioners do you have anything else to add or any other further
discussion commissioner Marriott um I I would I would like to suggest that um before this comes back to us for a second reading um that and and and maybe it means that we that we have to start all over at first reading but I I would
be amendable to that that we that we you know clearly this is a subject that a lot of people are passionate about and that there are some there is some uh information that we need before we can come up with a with a workable ordinance and so I would like to propose that at
some point before we go further with this ordinance we have a workshop session about it where we can you know gather more information and talk about it more fully and really devote the time to it that it deserves okay thank you I think that was on the recommendation
from the city manager at the last meeting uh that we have additional data and information prior to the that we gather all that information before the next before the next reading I don't think that's necessarily the worst idea to have maybe kind of a just a status
update or just um here's what we found so far before the second reading so that you know we can have as much data as possible I think the data we got tonight was pretty good I've got a cheat sheet this long right so those of
you who think I'm not taking notes and not paying attention um this was very valuable so thank you for that it was invaluable so commissioner um I like the idea of more discussion as well I'm I like the idea
of the passion here and everybody coming up with ideas I think there are some great ideas out there and you know it keeps our community together as well um you know it's it's it's a two way street and if we can work together then we can
solve all the problems so I I think uh definitely some more discussion on it um in regards to it sounds like it sounds like the musicians like the decibel rating they want the measurement so that needs a little bit I think a little bit
more determination even though it's been difficult it's something I think we we we need to look at I thought what he said the one G I forget um who it was but he mentioned having a reading both at after hours having the
reading at the actual venue yeah right the it's either the property line of the complainant and that was was that Theon or was that done a lot of research on there worth it's worth investigating for sure well thank you that's excellent information thank you so much for that I
I like the other idea of the location of speakers um that came up with the on poles and 45 degrees I think there's some science behind this as well as as the measurement so I think there's definitely ways ways to solve this and
and um now that you this is a process and I'm happy that everybody's involved in the process I mean it was not it was noticed we had the first reading there that's why there's always a second
reading as well because there's that room in between to make the changes to listen to to I I don't know how else we would have gotten the word out to everybody about about notification on the noise ordinance so it's glad to that
people are listening and watching and being involved because that's how you make real change is you're involved you're not sitting back and you're involved so it's I'm happy to see that thank you commissioner any further comments discussions before we move on
to the next item yes sir Mr Mayor yes sir I'm sorry I didn't see your red light no that's fine yeah you know a lot of the stuff that we've heard tonight and we've talked about tonight it's in the cup process and the cup process is the
process by which you get the permits to play music Amplified music specifically and often times the cup process fails us we have a situation currently where
the cup process likely will fail us so I I just want to add some context to that that there is a a process in place to have people do different things with their speakers and some of these things
and it has failed uh or potentially has has failed uh so I I just want to add that context text to it do we need more dialogue yes and I know there's been a lot of
criticism and uh I have been since I've been on this uh commission a bit of a champion about uh getting ordinances out there uh because uh I sat in this room for 18
months uh before I became a commissioner and not a lot happened in here not a lot got done uh the there's a lot of hand ringing over stuff uh we dealt with a beach ordinance uh the last commission meeting
uh that uh has been lingering for two or three years in this city great um three years in this city and um I believe correct me if I'm wrong uh Comm commissioner Riz Nikki as well as
commissioner Marriott were were on the beach stewardship uh committee back when that was originally being worked on and nothing ever happened uh and three years later uh we had a it it wasn't a private
meeting but it wasn't a public meeting uh I I in I didn't insist I asked that we bring the beach ordinance forward because it had been lingering for so long so we could get it front and center
so we could act on it rather than than it just sitting around and nothing ever getting done uh so uh maybe um I I know Mr Izzy gave me or gave us a a
leadership lesson but I think I know a little bit about leadership as well and sometimes uh you got to get stuff dealt with and get it moving in order to uh get something done and a lot doesn't or
hasn't historically got done around here or big things haven't historically gotten done uh there is there's not been a lot of proactive legislating in this particular body at least since I've been paying attention so uh I just wanted to
create some context Mr I I appreciate it thank you sir commissioner R Niki thank you I used the hand so I don't have the light over here um I just wanted to say that I do you know I appreciate it that um commissioner Maran had brought up
earlier about um having workshops or discussions before ordinances are brought that are not emergency um and and this for me was one um it seems that a lot has become a discussion about the
music when what I've always heard from residents was not about the music it was about the repeat offenders right and it's not about musicians it's about any type of nuisance you know so it I know
we're saying Sound Ordinance or do we call it um you know back to noise orance but it's about nuisance it's about the same repetitive calls that we get from the same resident who's saying that they have a repeat offender so I hope that in
our discussions in the future whether it's a workshop or however we're going to go forward um but that we remember how do we address that because um I Heard commissioner mahalan bring up the cups um yes we do have a lot of cups
that have conditions and again goes back to those repeat offenders thank you thank you okay with that we move on to consent agenda is there a motion to I make a
motion to approve the consent agenda I second city clerk if you'll please do a roll call the vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner res Nikki yes mayor patrilla yes motion
cares thank you oh all right city clerk do we have any general audience comments Grant Izzy if you please state your name and address for the record yeah Grant Izzy uh 203 59th
Avenue um well good evening uh first first before I begin on on my permitting discussion I wanted to thank the city staff for their continued efforts to address the number of permits that we still have outstanding and I know you're working hard but let's not lose sight
that we still have over 70 uh um 700 excuse me households or businesses without permits that 71% permit approval rating is is still a grade of a c minus and frankly I think
we can all agree that's not good enough so how can we do better right now on behalf of many of our residents I am formally asking this commission tonight to give direction to the city manager to immediately start a new Express permit initiative which will
allow residents who who sustain the typical flood damage that most of us received and only want to put their homes back into their original configuration to start the recovery process without further delay this can be done by simply signing an affidavit
which of course would require compliance with all building codes inspections and cost reporting and and this is something that literally can be done in 15 minutes in addition I'm also asking that we allow inspections to be accomplished with photos Andor video there is no
reason we can't use technology to our advantage now I know what I will probably hear is that grant that just can't be done and we've already discussed this or we have to be fearful of FEMA
because we are going to lose our insurance discount or get kicked out of the nfip there is no evidence that supports these concerns and we heard the same erroneous statements during the zero look back discussions you only get in
trouble with FEMA if you break the rules and express permitting is not one of their rules how a city permits is up to the city as stated by FEMA so as far back as October 26 second
many of us stood in the same place urging you to apply common sense and to vote for the zero look back and urging you to make fact-based decisions not decisions based on what you were afraid might
happen unfortunately it took you almost 90 days to come to the realization that the zero look back was the right answer and you finally voted for it on the 23rd of December so so again I am urging you
tonight to make to not make the same type of indecisive leadership mistake please think out of the box be courageous be decisive and help this community rebuild ASAP stay focused on
the real needs of the community thank you Rob suzan City uh City attorney I'm just prop is on if we have a standing rule against personal attacks I'm perfectly happy if he wants to do it again to let him do so so please do not interrupt him first
three minutes thank you thank you Roberts is on 4506 Golf Boulevard and I am not attacking just stating the facts so that's all they are so I'm actually glad that we actually had that two-hour presentation prior because I'm here to speak about my permit so for those that
don't know there was actually a meeting here on February 3rd that the mayor put together was an open for meeting all the Commissioners with the exception of Joe was not here at this meeting and three of the building officials were here and I was here with probably about seven or
eight other people and the big topic of course was permitting and the process of it at that meeting mayor you said that you guys are so caught up that you guys are issuing permits within 14 days if somebody submits a permit 14 actually you mentioned 10 days and then Denise
corrected you and said probably about 14 days I want all the residents to know that I applied for a permit on January 22nd which is a Wednesday tomorrow will be Wednesday it'll be three weeks for a simple fence permit fence does not
require electrical HVAC or Plumbing a simple fence permit and HEI will be here tomorrow 3 weeks most likely now that I'm making this Comon I actually get it tomorrow hopefully a simple fence permit my contractor applied for and we can't even get that done so how are you here
able to stand in front of all these people and tell everybody that you're issuing permits you're doing this I think Mr izy just said you're at 70% 70% is a a d 65% is where you were at last Monday so that was an F so I honestly don't think you're doing a great job I really don't so I think we need to get
people into their homes I think we need to start issuing permits forget about all this other stuff we're discussing right now with Sound Ordinance noise orance Beach ordinances all this stuff all this needs to be tabled everything needs to be table there's nothing more important than getting residents back in their houses you're wasting too much
energy too much time on nonsense the important thing is the residence and getting residents back in the house you mentioned neighbors helping neighbors I want you to know and I want all of our residents to know that I've actually closed all my hotels down all January February March not closed them down but
actually canceled all of our reservations every single reservation our hotel and every person we have in our hotel right now is a FEMA guest so every displaced neighbor is actually staying at my hotel so that's actually neighbors helping neighbors I can be making a whole lot more money with tourists right now much more money I'm
taking the lower money from FEMA because it's the right thing to do so some of us do care about our residents and some of us are doing the right thing I've been here for 37 years this is my beach I grew up on I went to golf beaches I went to St John's my kids went to golf beaches my kids went to St John's I care about this beach much more Mr Mayor than
you think and you'll ever know so I urge you to get our residents into their homes because that's priority all this today was nonsense what time is it now whatever time it is absolutely nonsense today so disappointed in you disappointed in some of these commission members here appreciate the other commission members everyone knows who
I'm speaking about but the facts are the facts and unfortunately 90 days to get the to get the process going was ridiculous and more delays are happening let's get people in their homes thank you thank you sir I believe we're prioritizing non-emergency permits
over emergency permits getting people on their homes back so maybe a fence permit you know is probably getting processed slower than getting you know permits for substantial damage and getting them back in their homes so thank you sir do we have any more General audience
comments I'm trying to answer your question mark Bailey if you'll please state your name address for the record yeah Mark Bailey address is 5820 bimy Way South 59th right off 59th
Avenue uh my wife is Judy uh and she's here with me tonight uh we've been coming down here for 40 years owned property here for uh decades and we have a house that's uh one story in that
culdesac uh there are two large homes on either side of me and uh over uh they uh elevated their property so the entire Street drains down to our property and out to the Bay but anyway we applied for
a permit uh we got hit like Helen like everyone else we applied for a pit permit in December and it remained pending in January and we finally went down there with our Builder to find out what was going on with it and find out what was going on so uh the uh naively I
guess the Builder said look uh the uh cost for uh the uh repairs is less than 50% of the County Assessors so we went down there naively and uh waited uh about an hour and a half and went in and spoke to
a woman there and uh she said well you need an appraisal or you can just tear your house down and we said well we want to challenge the FEMA damage determination she said she can't do that so my wife and I went subsequently back to review the substantial damage letter
and our insurance policy the insurance the letter sets forth various options one you can challenge the FEMA determination contrary to what we were told after waiting an hour and a half or we can Elevate and then what value what
relevance does substantial damage have if you choose to elevate your home and so frankly if we did challenge the FEA determination I have no doubt that we could uh get a permit for our single
story uh street level home but our insurance policy it provides a significant benefit for elevation of substantially damaged homes and so the mayor's uh supported
people elevating their homes peace of mind for my wife and I at our age we're both working full-time taking off a half a day of work here and there just to wait around for somebody to be rather dismissive of our entire process with our Builder standing there
as well uh was not appreciated uh but at our uh age peace of mind uh dictated elevation so we hired a reputable elevation company and pay have paid a significant down payment to get that done
$40,000 to start the engineering processes and uh the surveys and the elevation and all the things that go into preparing to begin as stepen cby would say this work is underway we went last week back and wait
I'm sorry you want me to stop if you look I I'll hurry up it sounds like you had a well Bott very unpleasant experience and well the bottom line is Mayor y we got a denial after after we talked to the young man and the permit
department right who basically said it looks like uh we can get this done for you I'll call you back he didn't call two or three days later we get a dismissive email it basically says uh your permits denied because you've been substantially damaged and it's like we
just showed you the contract we' entered into to get this house elevated what what significance what relevance does a substantially damaged letter have to do you can't what you I guess you can do anything you want but what we want
somebody to give us the permit like all of our neighbors are getting to do the interior of course so while this is pending we aren't paying money for rent and all the other things is just uh frittering Away by the time that if you'll if you'll allow uh city manager
would you mind taking his name and number and we can give you a call back tomorrow morning we need a yes sir but there needs to be a process for people who want to do what you've asked us to do and that's elevated these homes right absolutely and then again I that that shouldn't have happened that way and you
know for what it's worth I know it does it's too late now as an apology but allow us to take care of it if you don't minding all around us they're not elevating their homes they're almost finished right we're sitting around waiting uh naively because we're trying to follow the rules and improve the
property certainly so let us help you than thank you sir what's your name John kman if you please state your name and address for the record John kersman be Honda way thank you you can zoom in again I just want to
follow up on what uh another gentleman said earlier and that is you know certainly I apologize would you mind stopping talk for a second Deputy if you would kindly ask the individuals outside if they would just move it outside because it's just very difficult I could barely understand the last gentleman
thank you so much sir um the uh the gentleman who mentioned that you know residents you know should be top priority I guess over fences but also businesses because I was I was hearing from some businesses um and you
know that that just it's you know real trickles down and trickles out and when the workers can't go to work you know they can't pay the rent or they can't do anything and and it just it's really affecting them too um so when we talk about the process I talked about that
before um but here's an example Le and this was what got me involved with the city back in 2021 and this did this had nothing to do with anyone here not a single person here in the commission no in the administration um but they did an
ordinance and it was for streets and sidewalks and micromobility and they said we have to address the rentals of scooters and ebikes that are going on and this is going to be terrible they're leaving them all over the sidewalk and the next
thing you know you now first the next thing you know it wasn't streets and sidewalks it affected things on the beach that's not a street and sidewalk and the definition of micromobility was a transportation available for private use by reservation through an online
application or a website or software it was rentals next thing you know it affected the ebikes that we owned ourselves and I wrote a letter to Mr Dickman I reached out to the commission and they didn't care so if you go back to that last slide that's when the
process breaks when they ignore that and you feel like you weren't being listened to and you don't get the public notice and the commission was deprived of the input from the public so they only heard one side they heard the people that said we don't like ebikes they didn't hear from any of the people that said that
knew that it was going to be taken away from everybody so I think it's important that before we put that for instance into the new beach ordinance that these different things get called out and and so and also we now have a new ticketing ordinance because what they also said to
us was don't worry about it the sheriffs have more important things to do than to pull you over but you know all of a sudden now on know on a cold day in January when the only people on the beach were kids on bikes and the not even near the water that's what the
beach that's what the sheriffs were busy doing was was pulling people over um so you know things are changing and now we have a ticketing ordinance where where now different people are going to get uh pulled over or not have the warnings so
I was thinking you know we have a free be uh maybe we need a free beach chair you know we want to get cars off the road maybe we want to get chairs off the road or chairs off the beach you know if we're going to compete with other businesses so what I want to do was maybe before the 20 on the 26 have
another Beach stewardship meeting and I'm tying for myself where people come forward and get to talk about the very different things that are covered in the ordinance thank you Mr Mayor may I asked uh Mr Cruzan a quick question sir how long have you been on the beach
stewardship committee uh I was on back when when Karen and and Betty were on the committee so the three of you have been involved with this for over three years would that be a correct statement uh I think so yeah okay and and we and we were waiting that's all I needed to
know thank you okay Deborah shner all right going once going twice if you'll please state your name and address for the record good evening
Deborah shner s Beach OA Isle first I have to say Happy Valentine's Day to everybody it's coming this week close so the gentleman that I would talk about that hotel year is Robert shisan who lived across from the Zamora and complained that the music was too
loud and it does travel across the water and he moved to Treasure Island so when I talk about that hotel you now you know who he is I do want to thank Lisa Robinson because today I helped a senior couple that we've
known they don't have internet they don't have a computer even their phone doesn't even do text so I'm trying to devise a way to help them by using an email that comes to my computer cuz they're paying out of their
pocket for everything because if it's only on the city website and I understand that's how you get information out they don't even have the internet so they need the help of their neighbors and honestly I don't think anybody up here understands how many
people don't even own a computer or have internet or anything so that really surprised me so I'm trying to figure out how to do that and how we can help them I don't know if would be an email that goes to the city and then maybe they call them or
whatever it's interesting that the prom massive Hotel groups did not want Lisa around when she was being appointed and then they changed the rules why because it's residents
first anti- massive huge hotels and development and you've in that way since I have known you and I moved here in 2000 we also own property before that and I really really appreciate that some other
people are promoted by the chamber the chamber Works to have massive huge hotels on St P Beach it's the way it is and it's been that way forever residents have been ignored by
the prior commissions to the nth degree where we're here till 3: in the morning and hundreds and hundreds of people have been here yet those other people those other
Representatives voted against the will of the people all the time and that scares me with new people coming in because I know who you are I know who you are I know who you are and we're in a massive situation in
St Beach between recovery from the hurricane and you know we don't see anybody doing benefits for us nope they're only doing benefits for California and in North Carolina we're we're just ignored with the
stepchild with the orphan and we need to take a look at how we can have some of that money that's coming in through well anyway thank you we need help thank you Vincent Toria you please state your name and
address for the record Vincent Toria 3514 cablanca Avenue St Pete Beach Florida um I want to there's a way that permits could be actually done faster my
neighbors have been doing them they've been requesting from the city an inspection for PE for the inspectors to come out and they have been coming out and they've been issuing the permits right after that after they do the
inspections on the houses so that's one thing so but people don't know about it unless you inquire about it okay the second thing is I am against video inspections
or photos as you know and I don't know if you know but a couple years ago before you guys were even in here I had a video inspection and my air conditioner exploded in my house and you could watch it on Jackie
Callaway just type it in on Google and see air conditioning with Jackie Callaway and you'll see me on there okay so I had a very bad experience and of that situation so I understand that there's a lot of backlog
with all these inspections and everything else like that but there is a way that people could start getting inspections in their home okay and start the work in their home and they will give them they come out they gave it to my next door neighbor right away she got
it the same day her contractor went called it requested an inspection before he started the work and it was done and it's been going ever since so there is a way of doing that but as far
as video and photos no I don't think so that's what I have to say thank youum thank you for coming out sir I have no other cards okay next we have item 5A previously item 4 J task scored with
half Associates commissioner mohen you had some questions uh probably for Mr Mills I would assume I just need to get a few clarifications on
um on this uh particular project so I believe the existing um check valves have been serviced and inspected as best we possibly could service and inspect
them recently is that not correct uh for the record U cam to Mills Public Services director um those have not been recently inspected or or maintained I thought I thought we had had a conversation that they had the
trucks going valve to valve and um pulling debris as best they could out of them did that not happen those those um inspections when maintenance were at the baffle boxes um that are a little bit Upstream um from the pipe end these
these check valves are inside of the pipe at at the very um pipe end so we've done nothing um we haven't had divers I I thought there was some discussion about divers getting the some of the sea growth and some of that other the piping and up into the valves none of that's
happened no sir um that has not happened we we do plan to solicit a contract for those diving services um for for routine maintenance um but that hasn't been complet completed yet so we can probably reasonably assume
that the function of all these existing check valves is not going to be much better than it was before you took your position would that be correct uh W with these proposed improvements uh removing the check valve from the pipe end and
moving it closer to the road that would allow our um staff to be able to maintain no I understand that but as we sit here today and assuming the design and the new install isn't done before
the rainy season or hurricane season that um we're speaking principally about pass Grill way here we're likely looking at the same tidal and freshwater flooding until the new boxes go in
there's nothing that's happened since then that should make us think that that's going to get better that that would be correct um the the only maintenance that's occurred since and was cleaning out sediment and debris from those baffle box
structures and the engineering design it's laid out here about all the various meetings and the like but there's no specific timeline could you humor me and try to give me some kind of a timeline of what we might be talking about on the our our
Target is 6 months um from from notice to proceed um the the process would be um first starting with the engineering design uh which senses is a retrofit um it's it's not as complicated as as a new design uh the majority of the time frame would come um
through the bidding process so you know design a couple months go through the bidding process which typically takes about two months and then um the construction phase of it um construction would be pretty quickly um the only um time really there would be in the lead
time of ordering the materials so altogether we're targeting 6 months so we're looking August plus or minus for the design phase approximately approximately uh and then the install timeline after that install would be would be fairly quickly
again the the only the longest part of the install would be procuring the materials um but the install itself would wouldn't take but a couple weeks of actual construction on site so anybody that wants to Transit passag gril way or anybody that lives on passag
gril way just needs to buckle up for hurricane season is what I'm hearing we're going to we're going to try to expedite this as much as we can um ahead of hurricane season again our our goal is is to get it in in six months um but existing conditions until that um would
be in place until that's completed is there and this question maybe more for the city manager uh I know the check valves were in the capital Improvement budget for the upcoming
year um does it appear as if they're going to hold I know we're going to have meetings on on this uh moving forward but is this an item that um I'm going to have to tell people in a few months didn't make
the budget cut is are we at risk at that or I mean this is important to a lot of the people down there so this Project's fully funded through this fiscal year which ends September 30 I don't see any
forecast of removing funding from the project the goal is to complete it and not AIT correct okay all right thank you yes sir thank you Mr Mayor thank
you any further discussion is there a motion yes I make a motion to approve the task order with health uh Associates Inc for engineering design services for passer Grill check Val project in the
amount of $ 58598 199 and to authorize a city manager to execute the task score I second city clerk if you'll please do a vot call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner res
Nikki yes vice mayor mahand yes mayor petrilla yes motion carries thank you next we have item 68 ordinances final reading of ordinance 20251 city clerk please yes ordinance 20251 an ordinance of the city of St
Pete Beach amending the St Pete Beach code of ordinances section s 98 9835 9836 98-12 2.4 and 98-12 1284 to amend a provision related
to Improvement in repair of buildings and flood Hazard areas providing for severability codification and scrier error and providing for an effective date any comments discussion is there a motion I make a motion to adop I have public
comment okay public comment debor shner I don't have public thank you I make a motion to adopt ordinance all right next we have items for discussion the first one is 78 Enterprise
programs uh in December 10th we had a rather lengthy and disturbing report on the current state of our uh Enterprise programs uh subsequently we had a discussion about the uh previous consent order with the
D um that some of the items in the uh Enterprise report um might be might need to be addressed and so we asked the City attorney to take a look and come back with a recommendation City
attorney in front of you on the Diaz you have a paper uh copy of a two-page cover letter this would be to transmit to the D and also to the Department of Commerce the consent order the compliance agreement but most importantly the
enterprise system overview that Camden Mills presented on December 10th this would be to send this uh to the student thank you sir so our plan is to um sign this and send it out unless we hear otherwise
from you tonight thank you sir commissioner Marriott yeah I just have a a couple of quick questions do you have any um uh expectation of the result of this are is is and I guess what I'm really getting at is is are we you know
proactive L signing ourselves up for fines or something like that that's going to adversely significantly affect our city budget no I don't expect any finds this is just informational only the consent order has been closed the compliance agreement was to adopt remedial amendments to our comp plan
which we adopted so we we should not be facing any fins but this is full disclosure to them um it's better to disclose or provide any notice than not okay and then and then the the um the the information that will be attached that will be transmitted to them that
will also include um our current status of what we're doing correct yeah it has um has the entire Enterprise overview uh presentation that Camden gave and it it's over aund and some pages but it
goes through and talks about what we've adopted our shortalls our funding sources our budget and it goes through each of these items and has the photographs and the uh financials for our budgets so so we're so we're so we're providing clear information about
about you know this this is this is what happened we fell short on some of these items this is what we're in the process of doing to rectify it correct yes okay because I I I I wouldn't want us I wouldn't want to see us do something you know it it would seem kind of like
driving past a policeman and going oh hey by the way I drive too fast all the time and I've gotten a lot of speeding tickets would you please follow me this this is more to disclose our deficiencies and our needs okay and right now they're uh preparing for
legislative Appropriations for the upcoming session not the special session but the upcoming session after that so I think this would be useful as a legislative tool also okay thank you thank you all right any other comments
questions thank you next we have item 7B freebie cost reductions commissioner Robinson I'm bringing this back up again for uh discussion um I know that the last time we had a lot of individuals speaking you know for the freebie and
I'm just pulling I'd like to pull the rest of the Commissioners since we can't talk Anywhere But Here in public what feedback did you get because I can tell you that I got feedback from residents saying they didn't want to continue to pay for the
freebie um um so there was this overwhelming here and I got overwhelming on the other side I'm sure you all have heard something as well too um the concern is this is a big you know fiscal
item I mean we've got to be responsible especially seeing what we just saw the 25 mil the other 12 you know every penny counts it's kind of like in this town with water every inch counts um so I have concerns on that um
I've listened to what people have said um I know it's a it's a great product but again I haven't received anything that they promised from what they promised from coming forward for schedules did we get we did send an we did distribute an
email uh through the city clerk today to the commit today okay so we do have schedules okay um but but again it's something I know for some reason nobody liked the the trial program with the uh
uh you know uh $3 for for uh non-residents and residents uh um getting the free right and I'm going to uh as a as a trial program but I'd like to suggest going ahead and continuing
with residents being free and non-residents having uh being charged and I would suggest staying with the $3 and as well doing the advertisement to get some of that money's back as well doing what we can to do some cost
savings on this item that is it would still be in existence but it's not um the residents are paying anyway regardless of how this works but at least this reduces the cost for for that
service thank you any other comments questions discussion go ahead commissioner mahol well I can only speak for myself but I got the sense that most of us left left
that meeting a month ago or whenever it was there been so many of these it's hard to remember when it was but um we were all unfulfilled that's how I felt um I felt like we should do
something uh and we did nothing uh so I'm I'm happy to to to see that we are going to talk about it again uh I guess you know I have come to the in my mind I felt
freebie should go back to what it originally was which essentially is a pass grow Loop um I I I learned from our last meeting that if we're going to keep freebie that that probably not going to pass so I've
come to the realizations realization that um mentally I I would need to compromise uh but I still believe that we should do something to help get additional Revenue
if we can from this product uh because we're in such need for Revenue uh and uh most or many over half the residents unscientifically do like it all the
businesses for obvious reasons seem to love it um so uh there's a lot of support for it there but it it it does represent a significant cost uh to uh the city so I I I guess just uh
piggybacking a little bit on what commissioner Robinson had indicated I I guess I would uh based on her recommendation of visitors only and the residents not paying um can that be managed Madam city
manager through the um parking program I know that was talked about some before you answer that please is there a motion to extend the meeting to let's say 10:30 I make a motion to extend the meeting to
10:30 a second city clerk if you please to a roll call commissioner res Niki yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes may patrill yes thank you so the easiest
administrative implementation would be to piggyback off the parking implementation right now so so if we're considering a resident free uh program we have a database that's linked
directly to free parking because we have to go through a registration process for that I would ask the commission to consider that um when and how you expect a full implementation because if you ask me to do something right now in the
middle of recovery might be a little tricky or difficult Beyond just transmitting the data we currently have on file to freebie that we just completed from the December 20124 parking permit process so
if we could just do I call it a soft implementation and then going forward in 2025 we would then change our our forms most likely to say when you come register for free parking would you also
like to register for free or make it automatic so we don't have to differentiate between the resident and they just automatically get registered for both so when you say soft basically you'd message it through Communications
Department through Commissioners etc etc that if you're a resident C you need to apply for this through the permit system and then next year it would be part of the the process for anybody is that
somewhat I think the soft to me would be we would just take the current database that we have from the most recent parking and we would transmit it to freebie and that's only a month old and that's a month old and then if if we
could definitely put on our website that freeb is free to Residents and if they're not already registered just like if you're not already register for parking those would be sort of the onesie twosies that come in every week or so that we get just regular new
people come in or new cars those sort of things trigger a new registration and if you had a disclaimer at the top that says hey if you already registered for parking you don't need to register again so that we don't get duplicates we would try yeah we would dry our best to yeah and we I would think we could have
freebie also you know reinforce that that when if if it's still a soft opening and there still people are still using it they can communicate as well with the residents that it's free they need to sign up I mean one of the things we need to ask freebie is can the residents do a direct registration with
freebie that would be the most ideal I just don't know that they can do that yet okay so I need to confirm it needs a little bit more work but I mean that's it's doable it's doable I just would hope that the expectation is it's not perfect right you know I could see complaints
coming and saying I want you know I thought I was registered and you know they try to ride and they have to pay because the the the driver as we transition is not going to be able to wave a rider fee if there's no registration so there's going to be some
hiccups arguably on a transition I I I would add before our yield uh for whoever else uh I I I I felt I kind of thought like that we had left the
last meeting with that we had quazi authorized them to um begin the advertising where there's a 50/50 split in the contract but um I I personally think it was voted down
entirely okay um you know I I I I feel like if we did nothing else we should authorize that based on but we should put a condition on that that it has to be familyfriendly type advertising uh obviously we don't want strip joints and the like um advertising
on freebie but um I that that would be my thoughts on that so I uh thank you Mr Mayor thank you sir commissioner Marette so I think my my concerns are the same as they were uh when we talked about it before and and that is that I
think this is a a particularly bad time to put extra burden on staff um you know I I think that no matter what we think the burden is or no matter no no matter how simple it it appears
um that there will be a period of time where somebody is going to have to answer some number of phone calls every day from people who say I thought the freebie was free for a resident and I'm a resident and they charged me and and and you know it's it is it a lot no in a
normal situation is it totally acceptable absolutely when there's already 15 people sitting in the lobby waiting to try to get building permits sorted out it seems like a a a bad time to put extra stress on staff um I would
be completely fine with if we if we feel like we need to charge I think we should just charge everybody you know Char charge everybody $2 the and and I I know I I understand the the idea that residents are already paying for it through their tax dollars
but but I think we need to remember that commercial business Commercial Property Owners also pay property tax so I'm paying for the freebie twice right and so um you know the the residents or the voting residents or or
whatever group you want to decide that you're giving special privilege to they're not the only ones who are funding what happens in the city and I think we do need to remember that and so if we really cannot afford the freebie then I think right now the simple answer
is to charge everybody because it doesn't require any staff time at all um you know so so so that's that's my opinion about that I'm I am uh generally in favor of selling advertising when
they gave their presentation um to my my only concern with with the advertising revenue is that it's not very much money um it's it's a very tiny amount of money and there we do have a couple of private
businesses that that are comp competitors to the freebie that the advertising revenue is their Soul source and I'm um I'm moderately concerned not hugely concerned but moderately concerned that um freebie will just go okay well the people whose logos are on
the side of the free berried cars are clearly the people who are willing to advertise we'll just go offer them a better deal and and and adversely affect the the local businesses that we have who are doing the job so so those are my concerns um with with that so what's your
solution I I think charge everybody charge everybody $2 or or assume it's like a library and you know it's something that's just taxpayer funded and some people use it and some people don't you know I don't I don't think we have anybody standing at the doorway of the library trying to
decide who's not a resident who's coming in and reading a magazine my concern is the amount the disproportionate use from residents to visitors I think at last it was what 6040
60 non-residents and 40 residents that's a big difference and to to have residents pay for it twice I I I just can't get behind that I mean I was I was down in Miami and the hotel there did a charges you
$25 and what you get for your $25 is one free Uber ride and you get your branded bottled water and your internet but it was $25 charge there are ways that the large hotels can work around all that I'm
concerned about the residents and What the residents are paying and I'm concerned about our budget and I'm concerned fiscally what we're doing here I mean it's a lot of money I mean the last meeting we we had a gentleman stand up from Free Beach Ride he offered to do his own program for us I mean I'll throw
out the fact that we we do the termination on freebie and we we put an R do their six month and we do an R P to see what comes back to us that we can that that's a better deal for everybody so that's another
option I just don't think it everything needs to be on the back of the residence and this is one that's clear clear well let's hear it from the horse's mouth C man how much time and effort and
expense would you estimate saving $250,000 a year would cost this and if you don't have the number just that's okay just can you is there do you want to give us 30 days and come back with the proposal or yeah I I need
to talk to staff and see really what this looks like and I can't give you a I I really can't give you a solid I appreciate can you answer what is our base hourly rate at the C at the city like if you were coming in doing basic
admin work what's the lowest entrylevel hourly rate I think it's around 20 $21 an hour okay so $21 an hour would a part-time person working 20
hours a week be able to handle this entire project yes okay so a part-time person at $21 an hour for 20 hours is $420 a week times 52 weeks is
$2,840 to save $250,000 so there's a simple solution we could hire we could hire one person just like we do by the way this is not unprecedent in the city because we we do this with with with meter mates and parking enforcement right we have
the same math we look at it and say okay we we charge this much for parking and this much for parking fines and we worked it out to it came out to like $65 sorry $65,000 per parking enforcement person over their salary right so whatever they
get paid so whatever we pay them the city makes 65,000 over so in this scenario we're able to get a 1 to 10 return so we would pay somebody the $22,000 a year and we would save $250,000 240,000 based on the presentation that they gave us a couple
a couple weeks ago I'm just saying sometimes the solution is much easier right I'm not saying that it's not going to take time and work but we already do this math in other departments there's no reason why we should keep you know keep having the residents pay and and why would we charge them again a second
time just cuz it's easier more convenient well so is hiring a part-time admin and by the way I seriously doubt it would take 20 hours a week which means now that gives them an opportunity to maybe free up that person to do something else answer phones route calls
whatever it is I'm simply saying you know what you said earlier sometimes we get so paralyzed in making simple straightforward decisions I think that the hardest thing is just going to be the startup of it after that it's going to once the word gets out that you you know and this
part-time person's probably probably not full the full year it's going to be the startup and that's it I mean we could budget for the whole year but see how it goes but it to me it's the startup once it's out there and people are registered they know and it's
easy okay I personally I would like to ask the city manager I I'm not sure that we're we're not making a decision tonight by the way this is a discussion right okay so we're simply trying to provide direction to the city staff my recommendation would be give the city manager at least 30 days time to come
back with a proposal hard data and say look this is how much it's going to cost us here's some ways that we could do it and here are some ways to implement I mean you could even have for example part of the soft launch a 90day period where we tell
everybody you start getting charged but we don't charge anyone so we can see okay how many are the freebie missing right so that we don't get people coming back to get a $5 refund right and that that would be a waste of resources we could still offset it by $21 an hour but
still um but there's got to be a way to in this scenario to make sure that you know we decrease the cost of the freebie while still providing the service that the residents actually want and if you do do like that soft open where you don't charge but it's
just a get the word out that as of a as of a date it's going to happen um at least that way you get the you're you're hitting your Market because they're the folks that are riding the freebie the residents and it helps as we heard the workers are you know they they need the
the freebie and this helps them they don't get charged for it as well I mean that's another thing that would you know happen there where you're charging workers as well to uh ride the freebie so you know it should be free to the residents if we're going to keep the
program and charge for non non-residents okay is anyone opposed to allowing the city manager giving her ample time minimum of 30 days to get dig deeper into this and come back with a
proposal is that their reasonable amount of time I'm fine with that and and I think that gives you an opportunity to talk to the free because they were the ones that said they could do this as well yeah what's your threshold for charging non-residents just so I have a cost
around $3 I think is what we talked about last time I think any any more than that you're running into competing with Ubers and then what's the point any less than that might not hassle I don't know that's yeah I'm I'm
easily transition from freeb to 3B okay just saying I I don't think they're changing their logo I don't think so either but okay past 10 o' it took me a while on that one all right is is is anyone opposed to
that idea I'm not okay no so the manager do you have sufficient Direction I do thank you thank you ma'am okay next we have item 7 C commissioner Marriot you want to talk about the process for ordinances
yeah so um I think that the the the how things went with the noise ordinance um uh clarified for me um that I think that our process may be slightly flawed in how we in how ordinances come before
us and and and what we do with them and so um you know I think over the last few months we had some ordinances come to us that were that were truly emergency ordinances that needed to be de with immediately and and it was good that we did that but there are a number of other
things like the like the Sound Ordinance or the noise ordinance that I think don't fall into that category of a of of the same amount of urgency and I think that uh you know like like tonight was an excellent example of the
Val the value and the validity of getting really good input from the community on what we're doing and I think it would be much easier to do that if when something new comes before us if we had a workshop or a community meeting I guess you'd call it a workshop and you
can you know take Community input if you like um to gather more information to really have a good conversation about what's happening so that then the public has a really solid opportunity to reach out to us and communicate how they feel about things before it comes back to us
for a first reading where like in the case of this noise ordinance we were we were making up numbers for the for the first reading which are clearly going to get changed for the second reading but by the time it comes back to us for second reading then the people who show
up to comment there's there's no there's no opportunity for change at that point right because then it's the second reading and so um I think I feel like it would be a much better process if we on on issues like this if we would start with a workshop have really good you
know conversation a time to really focus on one issue to really figure out all the the the potential pitfalls and and how we're going to deal with it have staff be able to come up with a really solid ordinance that that's Much More Much More well prepared um before we go
into first reading and second reading so are you proposing a workshop for every single ordinance I would I would I think that there are there are ordinances that are uh uh administrative changes right that
probably don't require a workshop before everyone but I think for ordinances where there is significant substantial change or like like in the case of this ordinance where it's coming to us with uh um you you know the ordinance that
was that that was noticed that was brought before us for first reading was not you know was was you know kind of on the Fly changed for what we passed first reading but that discussion wasn't uh wasn't based on anything right so I
think when when an ordinance is coming before us where there isn't really solid uh uh information that is informing the details of the ordinance I think it would be wise to have a workshop first commissioner mohal I think all those points are
valid uh but I'll go back to what I've said nothing ever gets done here if you follow all the normal protocols I think the two concerns from my perspective when you put an ordinance up because
there has to be two readings and and I could be wrong I didn't really plan to have this discussion tonight but obviously the ordin that we pass at the end of the day should be an ordinance that's that's supported by the
commission and should be supported uh by the community uh and it also has to be an ordinance that can withstand legal challenge uh I I you
know lawsuits are are never good anybody that's ever been involved with them there's no winners and uh 34 years of running a business the last thing I ever wanted to do was do something stupid and pass you know make a bad company policy or something that
ended up in some type of lawsuit or something uh so I I I I may very well be missing something but I think fundamentally those are the two most important things uh the the the problem is as I see it from my observation over
the last two plus years has been that nobody really pays attention to anything until it really like it becomes oh gee this is like happening uh so it's almost like to me I
don't want to say that we should be just throwing ordinances out there to get people engaged but I I mean how many how many workshops has have there been I keep going back to this for the beach ordinance I know it's big but can I
don't know uh city clerk you may know do you have any idea how many joint workshops and workshops has been uh for the beach ordinance and i' say 10 to 12 10 to 12 and we're calling for more of
them and I and I I I realize that you know there's a fear there okay let's be honest the fear is we don't want to get that wrong because uh one of the big powerful overlords of the city will end up suing us so we're paralyzed to make
any decisions or or or take any actions so we end up doing nothing and you know we have all kinds of other problems that um faster and grow because we take we're
paralyzed and we don't take any action so while uh commissioner marot I absolutely respect what you're saying and I I agree with it in principle but in reality based on my observations we need to be
bolder and I'm not saying being Reckless I'm not saying doing something that um you know we have a 100 residents that come here and tell us that we don't want this or 100 businesses or a combination
of the two whatever or the city attorneys tell us which they do behind the scenes as everybody knows hey uh this we probably need to tweak on this a little bit so you know I I personally don't want to feel like we've got to be
hamstrung and every time that one of us has a proactive idea of something that ought to be done in this city um that we can't try to get it moving forward uh and and be a little Bolder
and as I had said during one of our working groups um make incremental changes uh whether that's between the first and the second reading or whether that's we pass an ordinance that as long
as it's not being really harmful to anybody or that it's going to put us in legal Jeopardy we can we can tweak on it later but fix the big stuff uh so anyway uh I don't disagree with you but um in
watching how this place works and how nothing really productive has gotten done for a long time here uh I just think we need to be a little Bolder about this stuff so um that that's my opinion thank you Mr Mayor thank you
sir I commissioner Mar I I like commissioner malland I agree with you in principle on that but again nothing seems to ever get done here and just like with the freebie that I brought back up it got shot down before and I'm
bringing it back up again to talk about it that can still happen that is part of the process okay it and and the other part of the process is us as Representatives should be in tune with our community and should you know know what our community
wants and doesn't want and that and that's part of it too and if you want to put out the word that hey we're going to be talking about this because we know it put it out there out there to to you know your constituents so they can be involved it's great to see this
involvement I mean how many times been here where there's nobody I mean it's been like that for years um so it really is our job to let that out as well and let them know and get them involved there's that's the reason to there's two
readings there's notification there's two readings and anything can change it can get shut down it can get modified um and it can come back just like the freebie just like I brought the freebie back so that is the process and I don't I don't personally have a problem with
the the process I I agree some things deserve workshops possibly but I don't want to die the death of workshops and not getting anything done and to see three years on the beach ordinance is
nuts it wouldn't survive in a corporate world commissioner Mar so I I I can sympathize with you Joe on feeling like nothing ever happens because in my my business if things went the way they do in city government I'd lose my mind
right um but but I I think we do owe uh uh our community a higher level of attention and a and a uh a higher level of care um and my goal is not at all to slow things down um I actually think
that by having a workshop first on things like this ordinance it would speed things up because now we've had a first reading we've had tons of public comment it's going to be who knows how long before it comes back for second reading we're going to have a bunch more public comment it's hard to know what is
even going to get passed by the time we have the second reading and and and who knows what it's actually going to be clearly if we were all really in touch with what our constituents wanted we would not have passed the first reading that we passed last week right because we wouldn't have had a room full of people who were terrified that we were
going to destroy their livelihoods and in addition to that I think that when we when we rush into these things particularly when we stack several of them in one meeting we have meetings that go till 1: in the morning and I don't think any of us are our best self at 1: in the
morning would like to re change all of your decisions from 2 and 3:00 in the morning not saying that I there there are absolutely things that I have said at two and three o those things are all done in one meeting too there and and there are times when when it is very important that we finish something in
one meeting right there are times when you have to sit here and go through the whole thing thing I think there are also times when we can spend much more care and and and make better DEC enough care is three years enough things one if we take something one Topic at a time when
we need to spend an hour or two hours discussing it if we can we can have all the meetings you want we can have a meeting on Tuesday a meeting on Wednesday and a meeting on Thursday and and pass an ordinance on Thursday I don't think that we're doing our jobs
well to force them things because in the interest of getting things done when we then make bad decisions I think what you saw tonight is for the first time that I've been involved in the city in the last three and a half years where things actually
went well and what the gentleman said earlier about we wasted time we didn't waste time we spent time and we listen to our constituents even though most of them were from outside of St Pete Beach we had a former commissioner sit here and he famously sat in this chair
right here and at one of the cup meetings he said even though I received 500 emails against this thing I'm going to vote for it you know what you saw tonight the exact opposite like you said quote we owe our constituents a higher
order of care you're right we do that's why we gave them tonight for the first time since I've been involved in city that's because for the first time we have a commission who's actually listening to the constitu that is the reality so the irony right
so that when it's convenient fast you know one meeting till 3:00 in the morning let's get it done right but when it's and we know exactly what it is it's the same issue every
time right I don't care if our residents pack the room y'all never listen to them not once I don't care how many of them show up I don't care how many send emails I don't care how many meetings we have I don't care how many people show
up having block parties and packing the room and packing the entire parking lot so I the irony irony that so that's so when it's so when it's convenient for a certain population we got to take more time 12
meetings was not enough we got to have more meetings but yet when that same group comes before us for something they want forget What the residents want forget what they say we don't care so what you're telling me is that you are
disagreeing with me because you are critical of decisions I've made in the past abut I agree with you in principle just like everybody else I'm just saying you're not living up to your principles that's the irony that you that you say one thing and then you do something completely different in public that is that is completely false and I find that
very insulting I have sat here for a year and listened to you insult me and and and claim that I have ulterior motives and that I do not have integrity and I have had enough of it all right I am trying to do the best for the
citizens if you guys don't want to do it you do whatever you want and I do listen to them and just because the residents that reach out to me are not the same residents that reach out to you I am so insult Ed by the fact that you would dare say that I am lying when I have
voted the way that most of the people who have reached out to me have have asked me to vote and so for you to tell me that you think basically that I have no Integrity have ulterior motives and I'm doing things for the wrong reasons
to protect some special group of people that you don't want to say out loud because it's businesses and that's not a special group of people you know what who I'm in in favor of I'm in favor of the community of St Pete Beach the community of St Pete Beach is made up of residents it's made up of voting
residents it's made up of non-voting residents it's made up of taxpayers it's made up of people who are residents who don't pay property tax it's made up of commercial property owners who can't vote but who do pay property tax the community is also made up of tourists
and it's made up of workers who work in the businesses on our beach all of those people make up our community and the fact that you only represent residents is reprehensible it's 10:29 are we extending this meeting or are we adjourning we still got a couple items
on the agenda I make a motion to extend the meeting till 10:45 I second vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott no
commissioner Robinson yes commissioner Riki yes mayor patrola yes motion carries so what about the process do you not like I don't like that we get a first reading of an ordinance brought to us with with very incomplete
information so when we have an ordinance coming before us that has information where like like when we had first reading of this ordinance we have an attorney who says well where did that 200 ft come from and she goes oh I pulled that out of thin air it's what it'ss you know to me that's not a prepared ready
for a first reading ordinance and so when we're going to hear an ordinance that's not ready that we don't have information on important details I feel like it would be wise to have a workshop where we can have an amount of time devoted to discussing that just that
topic so that we can work it out properly and what's your threshold what what constitutes needs a workshop what doesn't need a workshop I think the city manager probably has uh more experience than all the rest of us and being able to advise us on that
topic city manager is that a task you want to take on I would be seeking General support from the commission that if my read is that you're going down a path that I can probably
tell might create some stumbling blocks that I would suggest I put a workshop in to not only talk about it but in this instance staff didn't really know what you wanted so because we didn't have a
conversation with the commission to understand what you were trying to achieve exactly it's hard for staff to be prepared so from a staff perspective if we understand the policy Direction and what the problem we're trying to solve for I don't think we had grasped
that completely and so we typically my experience has been if you're going to have something that's a pretty meaty conversation or it could be political in nature or it could have very very varying views in the community
you want to insert something to help staff prepare a solid first reading that brings you a well prepared presentation that's been my experience okay so what percentage of the time would require a workshop
in your experience like one in 10 ordinances one in 50 probably one out of four one out of four we have at least four every week oh I'm I'm I'm well you have at least four every
week because we're in an emergency but no we've had four every week for the last three years it's been like a a constant if if it's an administrative change those do not require workshops you're seeing a lot of land use
ordinance changes here because they've been doing a lot of cleanup okay not going to require a workshop but if you're going to fundamentally I mean like behavioral ordinances are almost always going to drive a workshop because now you're talking about people's behavior in the you know that's
why the beach has been so controversial because you are talking about behaviors on the beach noise is controversial uh setbacks could be controversial if you're going to fundamentally change the setbacks of your residential spaces and Parcels those are things I wouldn't just
bring to you and say let's now just say you only need a 10- foot stepback that's a big land juice change so you're just taking a read on it and I'm getting to know this community better but I think it's a conversation we could have as you start to refer
ideas what could have happened differently here is I could have said may I suggest a workshop before we bring back a first reading and you all could not or tell me no I mean that's that could just be part of something we build into the conversation good is everyone
comfortable with that approach yes I mean it makes sense but I'm not going to sit here and say that I wouldn't bring something forward that I felt needs to be brought forward um I mean but I talked to the city manager so
so uh I mean I think generally when I have an idea about something I mean I think most people would know I brought a bunch of things up and normally I do talk to her AE a time about it um but I don't know you know if we're trying to set a policy I'm not ready to sign off
on any policy I you know I think we've been getting stuff done to be perfectly honest with you that hasn't been getting done so uh I I agree that uh it hasn't been perfect it isn't perfect but um you
know to try to create one siiz fits all uh you know whatever you all want to do I'm perfectly happy on how we've been going along and uh uh you know like I say we're getting I feel like we've been getting stuff done has it been
controversial absolutely has it been perfect no but you know we've been doing something at least during a difficult time and haven't been ignoring all the other things that we have to be doing so you know to try to make sure we follow a
certain bureaucracy I'm just I didn't come here to be involved in a not talking buy we're talking allowing the city manager more discretion and the items that she oh of course I I don't have a problem I don't have any problems with that but you know it doesn't mean I'm not going to bring something up from
time to time that you know I haven't asked for a workshop for uh because you know like I say we like to Workshop stuff to death or we can hire a study those are those are things that uh we like to do
well too so but yes Mr Mayor I'm I'm fine whatever you all want to do I'm on board I'm assuming to that if you suggest that and we against it we can say that too right doesn't need one doesn't need I don't feel it needs a
workshop so there's always that that can come out um I just don't want to workshops Stu to death I I I'm more of move forward keep moving forward keep moving forward and get things done cuz not a lot has been done and it's very
discouraging to see three years of time spent on a beach ordinance and it's still sitting there and we're still calling for workshops yeah and we're still calling for workshops on it you know we sat in our priority meeting and I think uh two of you brought up the bring the beach ordinance forward
and now we're we're back back again workshopping so well let me just see clarification I don't think I'm worksh one comment okay no no okay I just wanted to be I I didn't hear that direction from you all just heard the
beach ordinance is coming directly back to you without a workshop unless I get direction to take it back there's been plenty of calls for another Workshop I you just heard a no a no a no okay that's three other