e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e let's call the order the city Commission meeting of the city of St Pete Beach today is Tuesday June 11th 2024 it is 6: p.m. let stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all city clerk if you'll please do a roll call vice mayor Lorenzen here commissioner marott here commissioner Philz here commissioner Riki here mayor patella here we have a quum thank you do we have any changes to to the agenda as proposed please I I do want to request a change if possible sure um I want to respectfully ask the commission um to move for a b c and d from tonight's agenda um because I had been gone um since Thursday um to the Florida league and didn't know about the items that came about BCD um till much later and wasn't able to access email I know I received a lot of calls texts from the public from the residents and haven't been able to speak to them in regards to those items and this is the district that I represent um so I would like to be able um you know to be able to discuss and and motion for those items appropriately Commissioners any discussion um I disagree V item a for sure I mean we've been talking about that one for months so um I don't agree with a B CD um I don't really have a strong opinion either way on those although they look Fair like fairly light load items to me yeah I me we had a special Town Hall just for the both ramp you know we asked Mike at that meeting whether there was any additional information forthcoming there really isn't so I don't know that it benefits anyone to delay something that could actually address a serious problem in that neighborhood I guess my question would be around the time sensitivity for for some of these items um I know with the with the boow ramp my understanding is we can't apply for the grant without getting too far into it right now we can't apply for the grant until next spring anyways if we are going to get a new ramp right if that's the route so I don't know how time sensitive that one is um but I kind of want to get into the conversation you know with other Commissioners to hear their opinions um but I'm I'm open to either way on them um I I mean I certainly understand the uh the concern that without having been able for any of us been able to access our emails for a couple of days that that there might um concerns or opinions um that we haven't seen um but we've also had a lot of time for people to comment particularly on on item a the boat ramp um and I you know I I can see both sides I I hate to see the wheels of government turn even slower um but I think those are fair points for items BC and D yeah but again with the both ramp we've been at it for over a year a special Town Hall just for it um so um so what is the consensus and could I add would it be fair to say um not take a vote but have the discussion because I agree but um apparently there's been a lot of public comments that haven't been received and and that's why I use Ab C and D because all of them could have public comments and I don't know well in that case we should just scrap the entire meeting tonight sorry I said in that case we should just scrap the entire meeting tonight what specific to a district that I represent that's no I'm just saying if the argument is we haven't had access to email since yesterday morning we should just scrap the entire meeting because it doesn't affect just those three or four items it affects everything yeah I say we continue on as published I just don't think that's I say let's keep the ball rolling we spent a lot of time on this already all right if one of you would please make a motion and then we can vote it up or down just so that we have it on the record that'd be great uh I'll make a motion to uh uh approve the agenda as published I second I would like to make an amendment to that motion I would would like to add a discussion for the freebie and add a dis and actually yeah that's it sorry just the freebie oh the freebie yeah I would also like to add two discussion items first we need to take a vote on mayor patris Amendment and then you can amend okay I will just remind everyone no cell phones no speaking no clapping no laughing no just please if we can maintain the maintain the Quorum whoever's called up front or to the microphone to speak would I certainly appreciate that just so everyone can be heard thank you city clerk so this vote is just to accept the mayor's Amendment to the motion that was made um on the floor that first motion by commissioner Marriott and vice mayor Lorenzen is still pending so this is just for the mayor's Amendment please U commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Philz for the amendment correct just for the amendment yes commissioner Riki no commissioner Loren or May lenen mayor patrilla yes okay motion for the amendment carries 4 to one vice mayor Lorenzen yes I'd like to if the commission will agree I'd like to add just two quick hitter items for me uh the first one's going to be 8th Avenue parking which the mayor's already brought up I just wanted to add a little more to that and the second one would be the uh children's playground proposal for Hurley Park so so those would be discussion items d and e yes correct okay okay so this is for just the amendment that was proposed by vice mayor Lorenzen commissioner Philz and this is to move forward to add commissioner lorenzen's two requests to the main motion on the FL commissioner Riki yes commissioner or vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner Marriott yes mayor patrill yes motion carries for the amendment now I'm going to take a vote if you like say you have an opportunity to propose an amendment if you like to what's been amended like you mean to add you're anything or if you want to take anything off you still have the ability to propose it so it's up to you I proposed it already so we didn't have a formal I'll vote y again if it's fine yeah okay now we're going to take a vote on the initial vote for approving the agenda as published with the inclusion of the mayor's discussion item on freebie and vice mayor's request for the discussion items on 8th Avenue parking and Hurley Park so we're going to Encompass it all commissioner R Niki yes I'm sorry that's okay sorry I know I heard the the phone same uh vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Phils yes mayor Petrella yes the motion carries thank you do we have any general audience comments please one Jerry I if you would like to make a comment either general or to a specific agenda item there are yellow cards at the back you can please fill one out give it to the city clerk um as sooner the better thank you Jerry I I'm Sor Angel if you please take your name and address for the record I live at 2702 pass gr way want to thank you again for this opportunity to speak on the flooding and drainage issue along our stretch of passive rway at the last meeting I reviewed the impact of the last three storms that caused significant flooding and property damage and I provided some recent history what seems have gone wrong since the construction of the new passag gr way and the underground Batten tanks and title checks check valves that were installed at that time so what I've learned since the last meeting is the installed drainage system was not designed to be serviced and maintained which I still find hard to believe but this is where we are Public Works is proposing a new title check Val to be designed as a retrofit a retrofit that can be serviced after it's installed and our current commissioner Rich District 4 and the head of Public Works Mike Clark will support a project in the fiscal year 25 budget to have our drainage system repaired so what I need from the city leadership all of you is your support okay I'm sorry if you'll please stop the clock thank you if I knew who you were I would ask you to leave again this is we want to maintain the Quorum we want to give everyone the ability to be heard so that when it's your turn to speak you can also speak uninterrupted so you can be clear and concise in what you want to communicate to the commission and to your fellow residents so again I will ask one more time please silence your cell phones thank you I apologize for the interruption thank you uh what I need from all of you is your support to approve the project that the head of the Public Works plans to submit at the next budget planning meeting our need is critical and Urgent uh the issue is now timing when and for me it's concerning how long it'll take from selecting a contractor that's going to design this new valve uh to replace the failed ones then um manufacturing it ordering it and installing it and it could take you know several contractors and and bidding to have this done so realistically we're probably talking several storm Seasons before this actually can happen from front to back so anything practical that can be done to expedite this will be greatly appreciated by our stretch of pesc way that's impacted by the the flooding and draining issue in the meantime is there anything that can be done in the inter room um it would be helpful if Public Works can identify near-term actions that could at least improve some of the drainage uh issues that we have during flooding to reduce the water intrusion property damage I've inquired about the use of public reserves or your budget reserves and what would it take to trigger it but um I haven't received a response that that's being considered or being pursued at this time and in closing correction and repair of the drainage system requires all of your support and prioritizing our needs in the fiscal year 25 budget we hope our presence here helps the commission support the pro proposed project when setting priority needs thank you thank you sir Mary Mc Reynolds if you will please state your name and address for the record Mary mcrs 3103 South de bazan um I lived in pasagrill the last 11 years and and our landlord we rented our landlord decided to raise the price to where we couldn't stay there any longer so our four generation family decided to buy and Donas our place we love our neighbors and we're very peaceful in our neighborhood however as I have shown the commission with photos we have had 8 in and 7 in of flooding in our home respectively last August and last December last night I set my alarm for 4:00 a.m. 5:00 a.m. and 6:00 a.m. to check for flooding in August during aalia a sewing machine on the table in the flooded living room caught fire I ran down stepped into the water and unplugged it we didn't die had we evacuated the house might have burned down and fire trucks couldn't get in late the next day we were able to get the water out but not the stench of dog human and fish poop I live right at the end of the park this is a health hazard a Ong with the mold that sets up quickly this is our forever home we need the city to do all measures and maintenance to remedy the flooding because of the hazards of Health thank you thank you John kurman if you'll please state your name and address for the record John kurman be Honda Way South um can you zoom in a little better on the screen rather than the keyboard if you could um one item is um in the minutes that you're about to approve for the June 4th Workshop I believe that um we had more action items than simply defining the boundaries of the alcohol Zone I think if anything we wanted to get all the boundaries and there may have been other action items so I think that there should be some caution on the minutes or at least make sure we cover that later um also I sent you a letter because I was very concerned at the last meeting there was the comprehensive plan uh change that was made uh by kimley horn and I know that the mayor had some concerns about making changes without um you know he wanted to make sure people really were able to study it or had credibility and one of the things I think that was a serious credibility issue is and this is the text from the Clos captioning at the bottom they actually were saying that the text they were including was the exact text that the Florida statute requires and so I understand that the commission would then look at that and go well it's what the state inquires what are we arguing about what are we even thinking about however if you go to the actual statute that they referenced in there and actually tells you that you do not have to use that language and a local government May adopt its own property rights element or use the following statement of Rights so essentially you were misled and I have a concern when people make a decision based on misinformation should you revisit your decision or not I I can't speak for that but I think it's a big concern when you're not given the correct information and they make a decision based on wrong information that could be material um and it also said in the in the in the ordinance in the statute that the state comprehensive plan should be reasonably applied whether economically environmentally feasible not contrary to the public interest so I might suggest that that be put up as section 11 I mean because they put that other text about private property rights as a whole section why not put this required text as a whole section and the reason I'm concerned about the private property rights is think about customary use and think about our beaches we have a unique situation here there's a reason that we have the opportunity to put special language in our ordinance we don't want to just give it away and have people go well I have Peach front land they I have the right to evict people off the beach and that's the message that ordinance is written sends in the comprehensive plan um it was not an exact quote uh and there were other changes made for instance they they took away safety of the dunes so there's some language we had in their comprehensive plan about Doom protection struck out why is it stricken I find it particularly coincidental because in our own Beach ordinance because it's a little confusing how it's redlined they just deleted everything and then pasted it again so rather than Crossing out 994 like section 94 and changing to section 95 and leaving the text as is it's all cut and pasted so everything gets crossed out and everything gets written and you can't tell that they took out D dun protection there either thank you thank you sir okay if there are no further audience comments we will move on to item three the consent agenda can we please have a motion to approve the consent agenda anyone I motion to approve the consent agenda items items a b c and Z Second City Clerk if you please do a roll call vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Philz yes commissioner Rikki yes mayor patella yes motion carries thank you next we have action items the first one is 4 a the dces are both ramp feasibil feasibility location Mr Mike Clark I believe you're up good evening Mike Clark Public Works director um with regards to the Don CeSar boat ramp feasibility location um we applied for and received a Florida boating Grant uh to do a feasibility analysis of two selected locations the existing location and the cabillo Avenue turn just around the corner that uh study has been received a public Workshop was held recently uh about 55 or so folks attended along with all of our elected officials and must much of the city staff uh the city manager and myself uh and the COO and a couple of others and um a conversation took place for a little bit over an hour uh there was a question put on the floor for a hand vote um whether or not we wanted a boat ramp or not and then the second question was at what location would you like it and everybody witnessed the results of that um the grant is still open and the um the way to close the grant is to select a feasible location one or the other um you can close that Grant by not selecting formally not selecting a location you I mean there are other options um um but we do need to close the the grant um and so the action before you is um really what uh what guidance would you like to give the city manager and and the staff so for those who were not there what was the outcome of that impromptu unofficial vote so I announced it out loud and my observation was that the majority favored having a boat ramp and the majority favored having a boat ramp at its existing location can can you tell me exact numbers on that mic that was it was just a observation of the hands raised okay because I witnessed the same observation via um TV because it was on a TV clip so I it's really hard I didn't witness that there and and I and I wouldn't say it was it was hard to tell it's like half the side half the side people were kind of arguing as to why are we raising hands I also had you know surveys done that had more than 50 people who signed against it so I I hope that we're not thinking that that's what decides in doing this instead of let's talk about this feasibility study first be before talking about a meeting that was way past due where some people raised their hand and some people didn't and a lot of people including myself didn't really know what we were raising our hand for um so can we talk about the feasibility study first I thought the questions were crystal clear the audience heard them crystal clear the results from my point of view were accurate so I I'm telling you commissioner I do not share your observations but I am more than happy to discuss show you a video to the very end all the questions that you may have on this um Mr Clark I can show you a video clip my question to you first is you said this grant is still open is the grant expecting the commission to make a decision in order for you to have this final report for the grant are they expecting us to motion a decision for you is this how we close a grant is that what the expectation is yes okay I didn't see that on the application so U maybe you could share that because I didn't see where it said part of the requirement is that the commission has to decide um what location it is the purpose of the feasibility study was to do the analysis of two locations and to come up with a conclusion as to which one you would like or not okay so here you are can you can you go over the feasibility study for us since we did not go over that at this meeting I'd be happy to um are there any particular aspects of the study that you'd like to focus on yes both options and if you want to look at the table um um what's severe moderate um what what the whole study was about you know is that an appropriate location for this ramp so the feasibility study took a look at two locations the existing location and the Cabrillo Avenue turn and they took a look at it from a number of aspects all delineated in the report um and came up with a uh series of of statements as to how difficult would it be in which parameter they were look uh looking at as to which location you know are utilities difficult here is parking difficult there so there are a number of areas each of the uh locations is challenging in all almost all of the areas identified so there's no question that we have an engineering challenge no matter which location we select they are both buildable we can engineer a solution the real question is the public sentiment I suppose as to which location is preferred by the public because from an engineering perspective we can engineer both of them so from the study we have a true accurate cost of what it would be for both locations there was a probable cost uh given for both locations um I think one was a little over a million the other one was in the 900 range um uh based on my experience um I'll take that at face value at this stage um a more comprehensive cost analysis would come during a uh comprehensive design of each location I believe those numbers will go up um how much I I can't tell you but regardless of which location is selected I believe that the cost will go up perhaps as much I I would I would a perhaps at least 15% perhaps more is the current design designed to prevent flood in the area there is no design a feasibility sketch visibility sketch correct and either location would be at 5 ft na a uh uh 88 elevation yes it would it would comply with our code but will it stop storm water yes it would stop storm water also so with that that elevation water will be able to still run through the outfall out into the to the to the mcferson Bayou we would design it to do exactly that so it's not designed in that particular feasibility study the feasibility study does not do design it just say whether or not it's possible to build something at this location so we're not sure yet if you select a location I will tell you that we will gu we will design it to evacuate storm water and protect against flood water similar to Passa Grill correct um similar to many of the locations in the city that we've done so far that are still suffering from storm water I'm missing your point my my point is that we're not sure from today's study the all the information that we need as far as cost and whether designing that ramp is going to mitigate flood I just told you that we will Design the flood at either location to the 5et level and I told you that we will design it for storm water evacuation and for flooding that is what we will Design either location will engineer it the the issue before the commission for the grant is which location would you like us to pursue so in these designs it's going to address safety which is severe in both location right intersection pedestrian zoning which is residential as far as I know we're not zoned for commercial uh boat ramp or Recreation um parking is still put down as moderate because I think the study said um of the 15 recommended we currently are only putting in 12 so we're short three um storm water flood plane clearly says severe and alternative Don is our ramp one alternative to severe utilities are moderate but it's probably not identifying all the things that we probably would need to prevent storm water not to mention on that intersection alone I believe the Donar hotel is going to have to construct some kind of outfall for the storm water Vault that they're going to place in their parking lot riparian rights severe alternative one riparian rights alternative to slight but possibly severe um neighborhood concern severe traffic safety severe on alternative one severe on alternative two construction impacts for alternative one severe alternative two moderate but we're not sure yet um dredge and Phil do we have a d application filled out and sent to D you haven't selected location so there's no way we could send that in can we guarantee that they will even um uh let us do every step that's required under statutes of Florida state will be followed okay so in both we're looking over a million dollars in what this feasibility study says but yet we really don't know what the true cost is and with construction going up at the rate that it is and this grant being let's say possible grant that we can get which is and Mr Phils mentioned earlier it's not till the spring of next year that's because you missed the deadline no not me not me um I didn't miss the deadline okay I I've been involved with this for a very long time I did not miss the deadline I'm not responsible for that Mr Clark I'm not responsible to meeting deadlines I'm sorry okay it is due next year possibly but we still don't know whether we are going to be awarded it's a competitive Grant okay there's no assurance that we're going to get this Grant and it's only for design not buildout so we're talking of possible two years if any that we're actually going to do construction maybe if we ever get that far right you have alternatives we have alternatives for you don't have to have the grant you can go with alone you can do it you know the city can do it if they wishes and they don't need the voting Grant to do it so you're asking for us to get this as a capital Improvement project I am only asking for a decision on the feasibility study tonight I've got I've got a question goad what would the process be to see the feasibility at another location such as Ean Park I would be happy to write up a task order to the firm to go ahead study any location that uh we can come up with it won't be covered by a grant it'll be something that we'll have to budget in the fy2 or however the city manager wishes to address that but is that something that we can do right now I mean we don't need a grant to look for other viable locations right I I know the community is for wanting to have a ramp what I'm asking for is a ramp that prevents flooding in a neighborhood you know that's pretty severe and significant um so could we ask for another location to be looked actively look in the city to find another location for a second ramp city manager well that's certainly something the commission could direct the staff to do but that's not really the question tonight but that's that's something that that you could do if if you if the majority of the commission does not want to pursue either one of these options that you were given in the feasibility study that the commission authorized and you know that's that's what Mr Clark's looking for is the direct we want to we need to know do we need to close this grant out because we're not interested in either one of these locations But to answer your question yeah I mean the the commission can authorize a staff to go out and hire a firm to look at the Poss the feasibility again that's what we did with these two locations to look at the feasibility of of doing a ramp anywhere that that you may may have a uh your SES on Mr Clark as a followup to that did you consider any other locations we did uh we considered other Alternatives one of them was uh not to do anything um and uh one was to not have a boat ramp at all um another was Egan Park um and I do not believe staff came up with another viable location anywhere in the city that the city already owns enough land to make it uh even a worthwhile attempt so you did consider other locations I'm sorry so you did consider other locations uh the only other location that came up during discussion was Ean Park okay so you mentioned that the new boat ramp would be at 5 ft correct is that the same as if there was a seaw wall there yes okay with the with a both ramp at that location or the alternative location at the current location versus the second proposed location would that be an improvement of over the current situation for both safety and for flooding for flooding yes uh for safety I think that's a subjective thought um people could argue either way thank you I'd like to make some comments uh buckle up your seats and get a cocktail because this may take a few minutes so bear with me here let me first start by saying look we Don is our place folks and and some of the folks long past the grow way we all empathize with what's going on there I don't think anybody's sitting here going uh tough luck I mean it's a it's a crappy situation we all know it and uh you know I understand the fear and anxiety that the residents have there I think we all do none of us would want to be in that situation the whole flooding situation I get it we all get it and you know I've already kind of pledged on my behalf that we'll do everything I can in my few remaining months but in the FY 25 budget to look at things that are feasible that can be done in the near time but this evening we're here and this started March and I and the mayor and some others concurred to move move this back a little bit so we could have time to have a town hall which we had so this isn't a new issue it's been around for well over a year so we're here tonight to focus on whether we keep the ramp where it is and improve it or we move it to gabrio those are the two options uh that were put forward in March and those are the same two options the staff's looking at us tonight look we're Beach toown guys and and this to me is right at the Crux of who we are as St Pete Beach all right um the Don ramp's been there at least 80 years right it was built in the 30s don't interrupt please it's been quoted and it's correct that the comp plan says hey you have to have two boat ramps for 10,000 people so you know let's use little Common Sense here that kind of breaks into 5,000 people per ramp right so we got one ramp that's 5,000 we got the Egan ramp that's what 3 800 4,800 I'm losing track of the math here so that and then the Egan Park ramp was built in ' 92 so nobody in the city commission or the residents of '92 said stop construction we only have 8,900 people we can't build the second ramp that's just crazy come on let's use a little Common Sense here please so that that's a complete blue herring that argument all right you don't build you build for the future you don't build you don't shrink things okay our neighborhood are not getting smaller the houses are getting bigger every empty lot's getting built on the demand for boats is not going down it's going up so come on let's let's pay attention to what's going on the idea that residents in passag Grill and Vena are going to have to drive one of the proposals was well just go down to Egan so we're going to drive 20 to 30 minutes to Egan to use that little ramp during especially during winter traffic when we have a boat ramp that was built right there 80 years ago that folks like me who move moved here in 1992 when this is perfect I have a boat I have a boat ramp it's a perfect situation so we want to kind of reverse that whole thing it just it doesn't make sense and then put yourself in the shoes of the folks in Egan Park I don't know if any of them showed up to the meeting or even aware what's going on so that's a single Lane Road Captiva Circle that goes past that little park and now if you want to close the Don's our ramp all that traffic is going to go in that little road in front of all those tow houses and back up that ramp imagine yourself being a resident there so to me that's that's just ridiculous um one of the other ideas was well you can go over to Fort tooto and use that boat ramp I went there Memorial Day Weekend all 300 of those slips were filled or parking spots were filled by 9 a.m. they had a hundred roughly trucks and trailers that were then parked on the grass on the side of the road leading into Fort tooto so that place is already at Max Capacity plus you can do a 5-minute drive to the to boat ramp or you can go wait 40 to 60 Minutes to launch on a busy weekend over at Don CeSar that's not why we moved here I won't even mention the $100 fee you got to pay to get an annual pass over there the other idea I keep hearing is whoa go use the high and dry at pass the grill well that's about 500 bucks a month which is about $6,000 a year okay not all not everybody can afford to cash out throw out that kind of cash some of us may there's a lot of folks that live here that can't we already talked talked about EMS and fire department that ramp is there for emergencies not just well I'm sorry it's there for recreation but it can also be used for emergencies picture a hurricane and a tropical storm and everybody's trying to get their boats out of the water and we're all going to go over to Fort Desoto and compete with with the mass of humanity is going to show up there that would never ever work A lot's been talked about the safety card I swear I feel like we're a society now every time we hear something we don't like safety safety we're all going to die I've never heard a list of any accidents or deaths that have happened in front of that boat Ram never heard of one okay so the safety card you have your turn so the safety card I think it gets thrown around as a way to shut down public debate hardworking commercial fishermen use that ramp okay don't turn your back on them the garbage issue I get it I don't like it either I think the mayor talked about that the other day that's an Enforcement issue the kayak Reynolds get it too it's an Enforcement issue if we don't like it we can change that I don't even like the idea of the Cabrio area that's been roped off I mean that area has been used by the guys with the barges that fix your ramp I'm sorry that fix your seaw walls and all the other things now we're telling them they can't even park there and where are they going to go if that ramp gets shut down okay your cost just went up and those are the very guys that are going to fix your new seaw walls right in theory when the residential seaw walls get built those are the same guys so now where are they supposed to launch at Fort doodo my family lives on 22nd Avenue we've been there since 1992 and we are the absolute epicenter of traffic coming to the beach they back up in front of my house all weekend long we got weddings we had horse and carriages crapping in front of our house but we just laughed it off we have uh Bachelor parties we have Gourmet setups on the beach now everything you can imagine is in front of our face now we knew it when we bought it in ' 92 and we just kind of go it's the price of living in Paradise all right St Pete Beach is Coastal Florida all right it's not some Orlando theme park where we all sit back and pretend that we don't live on the ocean all right it's a place for water sports fishing Recreation most of the folks that grew up here or moved here that live in those neighborhoods saw that boat ramp and that was one of the enti are getting here ramp flooding yeah there's some ramp flooding I mean tonight's a classic example when I drove here and I'm sure commissioner res Nikki saw it as well some of the bad seaw walls had ramp had water come over them the ramp came up to the top of the ramp and that was it okay does it happen on King Tides oh yeah it does I've seen that too I've seen it go all the way across the intersection I don't know if it was an inch 5 Ines deep and I saw it going up to the gentleman's house that lives across the ramp who just put in in a brand new swimming pool by the way so it's a nice job on that but that water goes right up to the edge of his property on those really couple horrible times so yeah I get that and that's why I'm saying I'm in favor of keeping the ramp right where it is I'll compromise if we want to spend the money to put a I'm sorry to modify that ramp I'm not in love with it because Mike I know what going to happen it'll take a couple years got it this resident seaw walls will have to be reconstructed anywhere it's going to flood around it either way until everything's fixed my concern is that if it takes like the seaw wall you know 6 months 9 months to build that ramp we're basically out of a local ramp for that whole period so I kind of liked the Cabrio idea for a while until I thought well gez now we' picked up a problem that some residents of Don's our place uh don't like and now we're going to shift it over to Cabrio and hey it's like rugby it's called a rugby a buddy pass and you're about to get something bad you throw it to the other guy and he gets creamed with ball so I don't like the idea of transferring an issue I like the idea of fixing the issue and that's a legacy ramp it's been there forever and I think it needs to stay those are my two sents thank you sir Commissioners do you have any questions or comments for Mike Mike Could you um refresh our memory on what the cost of this feasibility study was I know we had had a there's a grant that's it was 100% Grant funded approximately $127,000 okay um and so so I guess my my thoughts are that um I I don't see I i' I've looked at a map quite a bit and and I I think that finding other locations on property that the city owns like Mr Clark said you know staff couldn't find any um you know if we were if we were willing to decide we wanted to buy a bunch of property to put a boat ramp on there's probably some some great locations but I don't know that don't know that you have $15 million Cory Avenues available yeah right exactly I don't think we're in the position to do that um I also don't like the idea you know we've we've sat up here for the last four months listening to people talk about uh how bad traffic is on Gul Boulevard um and the idea of putting everybody that lives on the south end of the city with their boats and trailers dragging them down Gul Boulevard um to go to a boat ramp on the North End of the island doesn't seem like it's you know it's it's it's it's taking one problem and turning it into a different problem um and you know I think that uh uh public access to the water in Florida is really important and that's that's why we got this grant right because the state also thinks that public access to the water is pretty important and uh and you know I I'm not fortunate enough to have a house on the water and I really appreciate the spots where I can access the water I also don't have a boat so I don't need a boat ramp but outside of boat ramps there is essentially nowhere that you can get in the water on on The Bays side of this island that there just isn't I mean there's places you can get in you just can't get back out so so I think that that that keeping this boat ramp is is pretty imperative um I I don't have a real strong feeling about about either of the two locations like like Mr Clark says I think that either one can be engineered to be workable um like commissioner Lorenson said in some ways I kind of like the idea of the cill location just because then the other boat ramp can stay open while that one gets constructed um but you know I I don't I don't I don't know that I have a real strong feeling about that one way or another I'm interested to hear what what uh everyone else has to say about that can I bring out a couple of points if no one I mean I don't want to be the only one talking about it but sure I um I've been involved with this for way before being commissioner on on this di the year built was incorrect by commissioner Lorenzen it hasn't been 80 years um and to give you a little history about what we now call The Boat Ramp was not designed to be a boat ramp the plat for the Don cisar neighborhood and if any of you did your homework and understand the history of what that location was was an outfall that was always an outfall and and and actually I'll step back a little bit on that particular boat ramp which we're calling alternative one um before the bridge was built the Bayway bridge was built there was very little access to getting to the south side of our Island our Barrier Island okay the Don CeSar Hotel was the Veterans Administration for quite some time Bowman purchased that hotel to bring it back for those of you who may know um during that time again access was very limited to our Barrier Island in order to get construction material to the Donar Hotel they were using what used to be on East Mar Marana and the Bayway okay that used to be an outfall just like all the other outfalls that are in the neighborhood that was an entry point for construction material when the Bayway started its construction and I'm talking about the draw bridge Bayway not the current one okay another option was opened on the mcferson Bayou side as an access point for construction okay and if and and that's how that started um I have pictures and I wish I would have brought them with me um and most of you can see them if you go to any historical um archive you could see there was always a seaw wall on mcferson Bayou with an outfall through time and before we Consolidated as St Petersburg Beach okay that Community the Donar Town its own Township could not afford the amount of money it would take to retrofit and fix all those outfalls and through time they fell apart and Through Time people believed that these outfalls were ramps because they look like ramps okay you can still see some of the ones that have not been fixed like the one on 36 okay and if you didn't have that ending outfall where you could see a little hold you know where the water runs through they all looked like ramps and as a matter of fact they had to add some red markers to prevent cars from driving into the water okay those corroded through time as well we Consolidated more time passed I've been up here in that Podium multiple times talking about all the historical documents years and years and years of residents complaining about the broken outfalls we also had on that Podium people come up and talk about well let's support Recreation why can't we use these outfalls as places to put kayaks in and out padle boards in and out they look like a ramp and that's exactly what happened on mcferson Bayou through time and back in that time we didn't have the kind of boats that we have today okay we didn't and through time somebody in the city and there's no and I searched for it no no information to show who actually approved on this city for that to be a boat ramp there's no documentation there was no community meeting there was no change in land use on this feasibility study it states it is residential just like any residential property that we can purchase and make it into a boat ramp so is there a cost to find another piece of land to make a boat ramp absolutely we can find any houses that's on the water buy that land knock that house down and make a boat ramp according to what we did in the Don csar neighborhood right it's the same thing we went on and I still got very very involved and had a conceptual plan and and I remember Mr Clark talking and started didn't go into depth about the water threats analysis and the conceptual plan that residents for years I've been coming up here for years talking about the flooding in our neighborhood the thousands and thousands of dollars that are lost in people's property the heartache that we have every time there a storm and you're going to tell me what's important so we can pull out our boat on a hurricane are we going to be and don't interrupt me I had inter you I would there and that we can pull our house out of the water as well there is other boat ramps D the fort doot is not the only boat ramp okay I am a Boer I also bought my hope and my home saying how nice and convenient it is that I have a boat ramp down the street okay but the difference is that I took into consideration all the people who live around that boat ramp who suffer every single time there is a flooding issue okay every single time okay and we can't turn our heads away from those people either yes there's a lot to do in the neighborhood but we were in the process of doing this feasibility study came about you know why because we wanted to to know whether we can build a ramp that would still mitigate flood okay we want it we want it to know for sure that if we were going to put a boat ramp there it would mitigate flood but in the process it turns out that there's countless problems with having that there okay safety issues I can tell you another thing in history someone in the residence that put a lot of work into even getting a sidewalk next to the Donar um parking lot because there didn't used to be a sidewalk and there's still according to this feasibility study done by Engineers professionals outside of this Das and outside of the staff who are here that it's not safe I I do go through there there's five streets that connect if you include that ramp five West maritana Casablanca Cabrio and the boat ramp I've been on that intersection when there's a buat trying to come out and back up when there's kids trying to cross the street Street when there's kayakers showing up with 40 kayaks loading them and putting them all across the street and that's safe and we're going to be okay that we may approve something without without certainty that all of this is going to be addressed I'm all for approving something that if you tell me all these things are going to be corrected 100% great wonderful but I also believe that we should be looking elsewhere okay maybe there's a location that is safer for all of us to use that doesn't cause the hardship that the people in that neighborhood are receiving all the time Tides change every day happened today yes it's a little water for you but I've already had to fix two vehicles you know some people had to fix golf carts as well you know and for all of you who keep driving through that intersection thinking oh it's just water good luck with that you soon will need a new chassis as well okay it's not a place to have a boat ramp okay it is a residential neighborhood the same that pass gril Vina or any other neighborhood doesn't want a boat ramp there for the same reason it applies to us as well we didn't want the bay rid Bridge either look at history we still got it you know and we have a big issue that we need to solve okay we do we have a big issue on flooding in the neighborhood but this was one of the steps towards that that was the reason for this we've been peac mealing a conceptual plan because we haven't done the whole picture at once this was just one step of a big plan you mention or some of you met mention commercial use yeah there's been endless use commercial okay free no one pays and I asked the city how many people actually use this boat ramp and I know one resident working with a city in in conjunction with a city came up with 20 27 boat fees paid a year boat trailer fees 27 so yeah maybe there'll be a little bit of traffic going down Gul Boulevard for 27 Vehicles okay that there it doesn't make any sense you know we are about to close to spend more than $1.2 million maybe because in two years it will be more okay so um you know I I I don't understand why we're not looking at the whole picture why we're not being presented with the whole picture people from all parts of the neighborhood and I listen to people in P gr too I've had residents call me because they know I understand what's going on with the flooding we need to understand that that is important the comprehensive plan does not ask for two boat ramps only one okay according to the comprehensive plan and our population okay it is not far to drive to another boat ramp and if you're evacuating your boat on a hurricane the day of a hurricane good luck with that okay um I do I wish we could or I do want to be able to propose that we do look in conjunction maybe elsewhere I know this grant it's a grant so I know there's no cost for us to write a grant a grant that we might not get next year 2025 so you know if if we want to write a grant to find a design but I would also like to find a property that would be more suitable for a boat ramp that meets all the criteria on on this study that was done I I wouldn't think that we would be high as receiving an award on a grant when this feasibility study says it's no good I mean what as a grant writer um or recipient of of an application I think they would take into consideration this study and probably be a little bit confused as to why we're going to build a boat ramp in an area that clearly states in this feasibility study severe severe severe severe so what year did the uh Don CeSar boat ramp get owned by the city owned yeah when did we put the City St yeah what year was that none it wasn't a boat ramp so who's been maintaining the ramp and who does the ramp belong to well when I mean you're asking me like I there's not much maintaining but when we Consolidated as a city that's when the when the city received so the property so you would admit that the boat ramp belongs to the city of St Pete Beach and it's been I don't know if it was built in 8090 years I couldn't find it anywhere but let's say it was 40 years and we've been using that at Egan it belongs to the city right it's a city ramp I I don't know why you're asking me whether who own you don't have to know just yes no question is it a city ramp they inherited a piece of property the city inherited a property it was converted to what we we call a boat ramp today listen I'm kind of tired of talking about to be honest with you we've heard all kinds of conversations about flooding outflows people that used to go here people used to go there the history of this the history of that it's a ramp it's been in use for decades just like the Egan ramp all right and you know it's just we all I've already acknowledged the flooding I commiserate with it we would like to do the best we can for the rest of the flooding with Don is our place but to shut down the boat ramp as if that's the cause of all the flooding and donces our place excuse me is not is not I'm not sure who keeps gentlemen commissioner speaking when it comes your turn to speak up front anyway I I just think it's we understand the flooding issue we all got it there's nobody's sitting here that doesn't understand the flooding issue and doesn't want to solve it but to act like that ramp is the cause of flooding for all of Don's our place come on please no one's saying that's the cause well then why do you want to shut it down you knew there was any entry point coming into pass excuse me Jennifer would you mind checking if the sheriff is outside and bring him inside oh he's behind Mike Mike I'm so sorry you were blocking my view um next person who speaks if you please escort them out unless you're called upon thank you I've got a couple comments I'm done so first off I feel for the people who have flooded in the neighborhood I think um besides the health of as an individual or your family I think one of the scariest things is damage to your property from natural disaster so I get that um I I want to kind of separate the issue of the flooding in the neighborhood with the boat ramp I get the argument of how they can go together um but you know I I I think it's fair to say the boat ramp is not causing the flooding in the neighborhood is it a part of the solution as it currently is no so that's why we're talking about making improvements to it if if that's where this goes um the other thing regarding the comp plan the way I remember reading is it's one per 5,000 people um one ramp per 5,000 people and mathematically we're closer to 10,000 than 5,000 I think the boow ramp is an asset to us as a city I think it's an asset to Residents and also you know for people in surrounding cities who come to our city and spend money here and spend money at local businesses and I think having two boat ramps is important um do I think it's a great location not necessarily do I think you know the argument about it being in a residential neighborhood I'm big on managing expectations how long has it been there well we don't know the exact amount of time but it's been there a while you know I feel most of the individuals who live around the ramp it was there when they purchased um you know and the the concern I'd have with closing it and moving backwards a big not just because it's an asset to the city but a big reason why too is is in the event of a hurricane people getting their boats out of the water that's that's a scary thing and whether it's one two three days before I've seen it it's it's Madness um so I think it's important for that reason as well I would like to know more about the possibility of having it at Egan but it sounds like that's not necessarily an option um tonight and then that involves more process and that means the boat ramp is going to stay as it is right now longer so now those are some of my thoughts it's a tough decision you know I I get the arguments on both sides but I do think it's an asset having it there um for the city and from the conversations I've had and people I've talked to my understanding is it is used for emergency services from time to time and whether it is or it isn't that doesn't mean it wouldn't be in the future um so I think that's all I got for right now thank you commissioner I think it'd be appropriate to hear from the public Ian I certainly would love to hear from our residents and what their thoughts are on this issue city clerk I assume we may have some comments Omar CH if you'll please state your name and address for the record please trick one I live at 3335 West maritana Drive today's topic I ask are we but ostriches with our heads in beach sand I cannot help but run that crazy number through my head over and over 1.3 million are we inan damn ostriches every time the boat ramp is mentioned the discussion turns to flooding people we don't have we don't have an issue regarding that ramp we have an ongoing issue regarding the flooding in our neighborhoods Mr Mayor you mentioned recently a lack of solutions being presented may I be so forward us to suggest the following instead of spending 1.3 million on a poorly located un necessary boat ramp take that kind of cash start a program of splitting the cost of new 5- foot seaw walls with those people in homes on the water it's 50/50 City and homeowners we the people have some commitment both financially and regarding organization neighborhoods have to get together so we can minimize the supplier quotes by extending the number of feet of wall to be done so for example on my street we would get all homeowners on board that go from the boat launched the first city built Spillway that's step one a minimum distance to be done in one shot the city provides permits the owners put up the cash perhaps up front and the city pays a second half of the bill out of that 1.3 million that we seem to be able to come up with as a grant for the first extended seaw wall is done how do we maintain this fund the people inside the area we are discussing those that do not live on the water you assess a tax a sort of special tax levy that goes into that fund perhaps it's only 500 per year maybe a thousand but they all benefit to the value of their homes and the savings on insurance and repairs specific addresses providing cash to specific neighborhood funds also of course we continue to chase federal and state and perhaps County grants maybe we achieve okay an example of numbers distance from ramp to Spillway ballpark 480 ft let's use $500 per foot that's 240 Grand $120,000 from We the People 120,000 from the city fund we Clos down that unnecessary ramp for far less than 1.3 million good grief fix a terribly located boat ramp and turn a blind eye to the real issue that really needs the influx of cash that really needs our Focus as flooding as the issue we all face let's let Common Sense reain get our heads out of the sand out of the beach sand and get started there you are a solution thanks and Kima if you please state your name and address for the record yeah my name is Ed Kima I live in doncesar place I don't want to is this what I do oh this one okay got it I I don't want to beat the engineering study to death you've spent a lot of time on it um um and you know that the engineering studies said that this ramp is bad from a number of points of view the comprehensive plan calls for one ramp and the city spent a lot of money hundreds of thousands of dollars for a report that was so long I couldn't even get through five pages of it called the resiliency adoption plan and it calls for the re relocation of the Don CeSar boat ramp reason being Dan is our boat ramp floods Dan is our place in listening to you it's really sad tonight for me to listen to you guys speak um because we're talking about making a decision for the greater good the boat people are pretty vocal but there's not many of them 200 people in Don is our place voted to have the boat ramp closed mik Clark didn't count them in his show of hands but he did Count some households where both the husband and wife might have been there so they counted as two whereas I went there and I was the only one representing my household and I only counted as one anyone who's done any research knows that that whole thing was a sham because Mike wants to focus on these two locations and he did so from the beginning of that meeting and and that that was a show only 27 boat trailer permits are issued by the city 200 people in D as our place wanted the boat ramp closed and here here's another example the the boat ramp is used 97% by non-residents 97% of the usage of that ramp is by non-residents and while I respect Florida being a state that runs on tourism and the city being a city that runs on tourism how would you like an amusement park in your neighborhood the comprehensive plan basing the number of boat ramps on population you might as well base it on the number of ice cream cones sold because it doesn't matter with the population because the population doesn't use the boat ramp as far as the contractors this is what the contractors do trespass on private property the city has had a lack of due diligence this is the email that I got from Mike Clark showing that no exploitation of an alternate location was done this was prior to the town hall meeting do your due diligence look for another location and vote for the greater good thank you sir we're talking about convenience versus necessity Marty leond and as Mr lefon comes up um as you know our email isn't working so I couldn't get the request to speak that we normally do and then I would forward them to you we H um it was able to go on the back end of Civic since it's used on our website and pull them and I just wanted to acknowledge these individuals this is not something I normally do but because of the circumstances they all are echoing Mr lefon sentiments this evening so I just wanted to acknowledge them Julie pelia JD pelia Carolina Rosenbach Margaret Rinker and Jorge Morales thank you city clerk if you'll please state your name and address for the record I'm Marty leond I live at 3200 GF Boulevard I'm also the president of Marina Bay Condominiums this is a 40 unit uh complex that is on uh Golf Boulevard and 3111 pass Grill way we're also part of the Don CeSar owners property Corporation you know the Public Works director presented the Stant Consulting service feasibility study that was done on the current boat wrap location and the proposed location 400 ft South on cillo earlier this year the feasibility study come back with overwhelming evidence that both locations were terrible choices to make a financial investment in how can you make a conscious decision and direct your staff to either of these documented poor choices to go and move towards I'd like to to suggest that the commission give direction to your staff to re-engage stanch have your trusted advisor do a feasibility on several alternative locations your trusted adviser will provide the commission with a new study that could be viewed more positive positively by all this will make your finan uh your financial decision where to invest obvious the data provided to you by stantech today again shows why you should not move forward with either the current or proposed location and it should not go without saying that no study was done by stanch again you've heard this on actually who uses the boat ramp Ed was just up here talking about the studies that have collected data showing the overwhelming use by commercial businesses and non-registered pelis County boers boat traffic is only going to increase in the future as St Pete Beach grows so why invest in a poor decision for the future that will impact by the way a designated bird sanctuary that's owned by the Autobon Society with the evidence from the study the solution should be to close the Don CeSar boat ramp move it into a location that is more suitable and makes Financial sense I respectfully ask you to direct your staff to find a new solution re-engage stch to study alternative locations the commission should avoid making a bad decision to move forward on either location based on the data that was provided by your trusted adviser thank you for your time and your service thank you sir Michael Welch F please state your name and address for the record thank you and ex uh I live on johar place and your name please my interruptions but this is a enthusiastic Mike I know who you are but if you wouldn't mind stating your name for the record Michael Welch thank you sir um almost everybody has said something that uh I agree with tonight um and many people have said things that I totally disagree with starting with Mike this feasibility plan for 120,000 you automatically times that by 10 or 12 if you want to get anywhere near the cost of a project uh I've enjoyed that boat ramp uh for years I live I've been living in the neighborhood for 25 years as the commissioner pointed out the houses are getting bigger the boats are getting bigger the trucks are getting bigger and the traffic is unbelievable there must have been 40 kayak there last night and 40 people standing around which you really have to be careful driving through uh we could fix the flooding on that boat ramp and the berms around it with probably um the neighborhood doing the shoveling it would take about a foot to keep the water at this moment from coming over the water's Rising we all know that it's not going down um let's start treating things with some kind of practicality with this state has been totally destroyed environmentally because of core of engineering thinking and that's just a fact if you disagree with it you don't know the real facts uh when I heard that proposal to put more digestors in the uh outfalls it just it makes me ill to get rid of water all you need is an opening to lower water and you need something that closes that thing when the water gets higher to keep it out of the neighborhood uh we have a situation with the do that I've been dealing with for I don't know how many years ever since the new bridge was built though that doesn't change they don't do anything nothing happens another study is done another proposal that is so over the toop we have ski jumps in our neighborhood now that are supposed to be drains that don't work we have one old-fashioned ramp it's concrete it used to be dirt and that's the way everybody put their little boats in because Boats were little an 18t boat I had a 19t boat when I was many many years ago and that was the biggest boat around everybody else had 16s okay uh over engineering things doesn't accomplish anything except expenditure of money and then maintenance when they built all right you get the picture it's uh I'm I'm now in agreement with getting rid of the boat ramp period thank you sir Louise Manali hi if you'll please state your name and address for the record Louise monol 2600 pass gril way thank you um I'm in favor of keeping the boat ramp exactly where it is and where it has been I've been a resident here more than 50 years and have used that boat ramp for more than 40 years um when we first moved here 25 years ago we looked at purchasing on 3309 maraton a two story yellow house did not purchase there for the flooding so the flooding is something that's been going on uh quite some time obviously and today at 2:00 may I place these here this is a a photo of maritana and it's already breached the seaw wall to today with no King ties here's I believe this is Mr Homer's property just breach there here is your boat ramp and we are not flooding into the street so I'm I'm in agreement with keeping the boat ramp where it is and keeping our tax dollars or how the money goes into repairing the boat ramp exactly where it is um fixing the SE wall is obviously important but that to my knowledge is private property and I'm not sure um how you can go about uh forcing that or making that happen but making the boat ramp you know 5 feet where it needs to be you would need to fix everything around that or the citizens would need to be responsible for their own personal private property um we did not buy in that area because of the flooding so I mean it would be the reason I wouldn't buy next to an airport for the airplane noise it's been there it's you bought there knowing what you bought my final comment is um District 3 uh Miss Betty I would like um to ask for her to recuse herself from the vote as she seems to have started this years before she actually had a vote or ability to to cancel this boat ramp and I think it's a a personal issue and not one that she can vote as a commissioner thank you thank you Jeff res Nikki if you'll please state your name and address for the rec my name is Jeffer Niki I live in Donar place in addition i' i' like to mention that I'm a licensed civil engineer and I'm licensed in the State of Florida and as part of my job I actually commission Engineers to perform studies I've worked for two different municipalities in doing storm water studies and design and traffic studies so forth and so it's interesting to me that the city would pay for study the study basically outlines that both of these locations are not anywhere near good good Alternatives but we're discussing selecting one on page one of the report even says that there are safety issues there anybody who that who's been walking through that intersection has seen that the dangerous situations that come up on a regular basis there's no P also there's no pedestrian cross Walks from across the street to the boat ramp so you have pedestrians walking through there boats backing up putting boats in the water tourists trying to drive through there and figure out where they are so so for me this is an opportunity to resolve a problem and we're we're basically saying yeah we know there's a problem but you know and it's been there a long time so that's okay so we're going to allow it and as an engineer I don't have that that if if someone comes to me which they do often and they ask what what should we do and we base it on Research just like do these feasibility studies and we make a decision and the decisions have to be based on the results of the study not how people feel about something you know I know that's important but it it really in my opinion shouldn't be part of the decision in keeping a facility that's clearly was never designed to see the use that it's seeing now I mean it's it's been establish that that boat ramp was put there a long time ago and I guarantee it wasn't designed to ever see the use that it's seeing now so to to to try and and prop it up and keep using it it it it really doesn't make any sense financially or from a design standpoint or access standpoint from there's no good reason actually to keep the ramp there in my opinion it's just doesn't make sense now of course the issue of storm water comes up from from looking at the feasibility study sure they're going to raise the ramp elevation between two and three and A2 ft so what that will do is stop runoff from coming up the ramp but you still have the issues with the sea walls adjacent to it and as a m and also the way the way I see the working because I see these kind of designs all the time they're going to put curb inlets on either side of that of of the bottom of the ramp which are going to be connected to pipes to F and byou and guess what's going to happen the same thing that happens now at all the other outfalls you're going to have run off stopped when the tides are high and and if even if they put the valves there and then we got the picture it's not going to solve the flooding problem either thank you sir deorah shner you please state your name and address for the record uh good evening Deborah shner B Sega Isle Drive St Beach I have a question as to why The Kayaks are still there if they don't have a a business occupation they've not been approved by the city and it's been going on for quite a long time I don't know where the process is to stop that commercial situation I will say that the boat ramp as it is now I don't know if anybody's been on it lately is extraordinarily slippy somebody is going to get hurt and somebody is going to sue the city and I happened to know somebody who just you know was going on the boat ramp the other day a resident who was you know quite shocked at how bad it was because I hadn't been there in a while as to where a boat ramp should go or not go um you really do need to fix what you have there regardless and you have to figure out a way so that maybe it becomes a resident only boat open certain hours um to mitigate the noise and the lack of quality of life for the rest res residents who have to deal with that all day long I I don't know where you go from here because we do need an emergency ramp I'm not sure if the fire chief has another one a little bit South on pass away I seem to remember there was something over there so we need do need to look at it maybe as a very very limited boat ramp but right now quite frankly I don't think anybody should be using it because I think it's a liability for the city and uh I don't know where you would put another boat ramp but I do really worry about not only emergency rescues but the fire department has also used that boat to help put out house fires and so there is a safety aspect to it but um the city needs to seriously look at it because somebody's going to get hurt one of these days and um I'll leave that to those who do this kind of a job but really we need something for emergencies if that's all it's going to be used for then let it be used for that and if we only have 27 people who are registered with the city using the boat ramp that's a very minor amount of people if that's how we decide to go forward very limited use rather than all and also fixing the burm so that people don't get flooded but there are safety issues for our community meaning Department Etc and their safety issues right now cuz somebody's going to get hurt thank you thank you Cathy Gara feel please state your name and address for the record Kathy Gara Casablanca Don our place so uh I think you've heard a lot already so I won't be labor but I did want to share a couple of things because first of all I think if we have a study and we want to get it paid for I think think we need to close it out so that we don't have to foot that bill closing it out in my opinion is also a statement of we are not making a decision on a direction that is a decision so as far as studies go in history is uh I don't know sorry so 2020 we had a sea level rise adaptation plan right 2021 we also provided a summary or the team did here in the city water threats anal uh analysis mitigation study so we've got a lot of studies right in the studies I get extra time um so it shows an adaptation plan in that I'm highlighting note boat ramp to be relocated or replaced by open outfall so there's Solutions and these are things that you all commissioned to have work done back in 2021 then in 2024 fiscal year plan in October you said that these are all the things that you would do for the doncesar neighborhood of which one of them is design design actually for the replacement of the boat ramp include flood mitigation concept the word design is there not a study it's a concept design for a living Shoreline for the entire Don CeSar neighborhood these are your words the city's words retrofit of existing storm water check fails to improve the performance of the Danes our neighborhood installation of the new new storm water check fails in the Don CeSar neighborhood construction of a living Shoreline and Street drainage Improvement at the 36th Avenue storm water outfall structure public private partnership to install a living Shoreline seaw wall in the Don CeSar neighborhood those are written down things that you said you would do this year in your plan and so I think that while this boat ramp consumed a lot of energy and time it's really kind of sad because we have such a big job that we really need to be getting done and focused on and turning this into an action plan so to help you with that we do have a petition that we put together we have 180 signatures we've been able to connect them all with uh at least 119 of them very specific to being residents in the dances our neighborhood I will leave this here and it states that we need the city to complete all of the fiscal year 2024 commitments to the doncesar neighborhood by end of this fiscal year and the second thing is we need the city to Define an executable comprehensive plan to address the Dan's our neighborhood flooding and resiliency and review this with the homeowners by the end of this calendar year we want to see it it's not limited to so go beyond this but it is a request that we would see raising what does it take to raise the seaw walls you all will be able to read this we need funding support we need you all to work with us on it thank you I have left copy for everyone thank you Steven Stewart you please state your name and address for the record my name is Steve Stewart 250 Julia Circle South been living out here since 1970 bought my home from my parents um when I look at this my son-in-law is a firemen on passor grill they use the ramp the ramp is a resource not only to the residents but the people that serve the residence and it should stay where it's at what I see is a problem which I see in this country all along is that we have people who make decisions no one forced anybody to buy house in Don CeSar the boat ramp was there they know what was a flood zone yet they bought so if you're not happy with the flooding and the solutions make your choice move or not talk about it anymore because the flood zone the the the the boat ramp is not flooding your neighborhood it's because a choice was made to buy a property in probably one of the lowest lower areas on the beach I'm not an engineer I don't have studies but all I see since living here since 1970 people come here and they immediately want to change what brought them here so if you made a choice to buy in that area abide by your choice you made that choice live with it as a resident and someone who served on boards here I really don't appreciate the attacks on the staff and getting up and sending nasty emails it's it's there's no civility so again you made your choice you chose to live there if if you don't like it make your choice and leave thank you thank you Jill leond did you want to speak okay if you please state your name and address for the record I'm Jill fond and I live at 3200 Gulf Boulevard um it's so disappointing I stood up here two months ago to see the the tail wagon the dog we're like trying to make a decision because we appli for this feasibility study when Mike stood before Mike Clark stood before District 4 at a town hall about a year and a half ago he said a feasibility study would be done and multiple locations would be considered not two and we've got two locations that were considered um we have we hear about this outflow system and the scuppers that aren't working through pass the grill and Don CeSar we've got so many other things that aren't working and now we're looking at spending money on a boat ramp which the feasibility study has said neither location was good it's just when the new city uh manager comes into office I I think there need to be some considerations about the staff that is running this because we have so much flooding in the city and yes Betty's been up here I'm in District Four I'm not in District three but I respect Betty for how much she's been doing in terms of trying to help you know the community in the flooding it just doesn't seem like there's a great priority for the projects and that's very disappointing you know there should be some better hierarchy of things getting done and I think if Betty's going to be asked to recuse herself from this vote then I think anybody who's on the commission who has a boat should also recruit himself I mean I just think what's fair is fair I personally took offense to somebody in District for making that statement I just don't think that's really fair this thing is kind of it's kind of a mess honestly thank you for your service thank you Mary Mc reyolds I already spoke you had number four so I wasn't sure I wanted to make sure you got your time John kurman I need the camera again zoom in on the screen it would be helpful instead of the keyboard they could zoom in a little um John kurman be Honda way uh I'm GNA start mostly with facts because I heard some questions asked first off this is an article from 1980 Historical Museum it said repairs to the book boat ramp at the daar okay so we know it was there and but it also says in 1980 because of its extremely deteriorated condition the commission unanimously voted to proceed with the work so in 1980 they did work because it was already deteriorated now going back actually going forward to 1982 people talk about the intersection of Casablanca and West martana took a drive took on the aspect of a busy loading dock cars and Boat Trailers jockey for position of the boat ramp so 82 was bus used and they mentioned that they believe that the boat R was installed about 10 years earlier so now I think we know about 1972 so if you bought your house before 1972 understandably you maybe didn't know about the boat ramp um comprehensive plan comprehensive plan was discussed comprehensive plan says just like if you have basketball court for every 5,000 people if you have 7,500 people you don't just have one basketball court you have two you can't have half of a court you can't have half of a ramp so once you go over 5,000 you have two that's what this calls for and a ramp means a separate ramp that's in the comprehensive plan there was discussion about 27 people with boat trailers or permits you don't need a permit to use the ramp you need a permit because if you choose to not to to leave your boat at the parking lot all day you might have to pay 25 a day at at at The Egan Park and the da uh boat ramp it says attached boat trailer only 25 a day but if you don't want to do that you can go for 75 a day or 75 a year and get the tea permit so that does mean you're leaving your trailer there all day it doesn't mean you're not using the ramp uh this was something that Betty actually was associated with a while back but this was about the flooding this isn't about the ramp this is about the flooding and that's this is my opinion piece now you got to separate the ramp from the flooding flooding is horrible we got to talk about addressing flooding or who's responsible for flooding or getting it taken care of but that's not the boat ramp now in the study I don't know how you can make a decision it said alternative one is the existing Don cazar ramp and alternative two is the intersection of cablanca and gabilo but it says moving the ramp to cassa Black and gabrillo how do you how do you price moving when you only include and this is my slide from March 12th it says alternative two relocates the boat ramp approximately 400 ft South and turn at the turn and Cabrio Avenue well how could you say that it includes that the relocation if you don't include the cost of recommissioning the old ramp location to be a seaw wall or whatever it's going to be so you don't have the data even if you decided to move it to Egan or move it somewhere else in the city part of moving it is actually remediating what's there and I don't see the study even since March being updated to give you that data thank you sir thank you okay thank you we're open to further discussion or a motion or can I just put one because um some of the staff I mean sorry some of the residents a couple of residents had mentioned emergency services but and I don't know if um Chief Kilpatrick is here or not but I did ask whether the city um I remember someone at a community meeting um mentioning that they used the boat ramp but I did directly ask him and he said he actually didn't say he showed me a hand and said zero um they don't use the city of St Pete Beach Fire Department does not use the boat ramp and and I don't know um if you could verify that city manager but I know I asked him personally I had a discussion with uh farie Kill killpatrick U about that because I didn't know when the question came up uh and uh he informed me that they do use that boat ramp on occasion it's not something that they use every day or even every week but they do use it on occasion uh under uh to to launch some of their craft they also use it when they're maybe out on a rescue bringing someone in that may be the closest place to bring someone in so uh our our our fire department does use it on occasion mayor two more cards two more cards yesly Al Bellis if you please state your name and address for the record Al Bellis 4010 bellista Drive um and I also own pasag Grill Marina um I don't think a day goes by where um we don't get a Call of where's the boat ramp or or you know how do you get your boat in the water so this argument that it's not useful or people don't use it is ridiculous you know the whole um business Marine Community relies on these boat ramps so that part of it is is like a nonstarter that boat ramp's been there forever so I don't really get that argument but when I bought my house on Bell Vista it was because because I couldn't afford being a delmare or Brightwaters everybody knew it flooded you know maritana floods all the time but Bell Vista has been flooded eight times since I've been there no one's up here worrying about that but this boat ramp where everybody needs and uses and because of flooding I don't get that the other thing was today Mike Clark was on TV and he was talking about everything in the city the goal is to be 5T on the seaw wall well these ramps accomplish that so pick one you know it's the 5et that's what you're going to do Citywide a major flood isn't going to change anything it's still going to flood you know if we get a one we get a two we get a three nothing matters even a depression is going to flood we had flooding today on passor grill passor grill floods just as bad as maritana Bell Vista floods everywhere so I don't you know we got a we got an amenity and we want to throw it away I don't agree with that thank you thank you Craig Steven for please state your name and address for the record sure my name is Craig Stefan and I live in Don CeSar place and uh the only thing I'd like to say about the boat ramp uh is that if we're going to put it in uh let's put it in differently than it is it's got to be raised higher it's got got to be higher than the road level and if it's higher than the road level once that water breaches that new boat ramp where's that water going to go is it going to just sit in the street for the next two weeks or is it actually going to drain out you know and as far as the location I don't really want it I I would vote against it myself you know because of all the traffic and the boat ramp or the boers that are putting their boats in there are sometimes two and three people doing that at the time you know and so they're just sitting there and then you have the kayakers of course you know we've all discussed all that but I just uh and as far as the flooding in the neighborhood I've lived in the Donar neighborhood for 35 years and it's been the last two years that I've ever flooded you know everybody says oh everybody knows that the Don CeSar neighborhood floods well it's had water in its streets yes but it's never flooded everybody's homes and everybody that's on the ground has all had flooding you know so there's something that needs to be done we need a comprehensive plan like Betty said uh for the whole thing you can't just keep on peac mealing things and think that's going to solve the problem you have to have a comprehensive plan where you put the seaw walls in if you want a boat ramp it's got to be redesigned so that uh it also it's I guess it would be a compromise between the voters and the people that live in the Don our neighborhood the ones that don't want it you know because uh you know it's just it can't work the way that it is now and as far as flooding when you get something higher than a high tide if you get a king tide that water comes right up the boat ramp runs down Casablanca Avenue and then it cuts off my egress and Ingress into my neighborhood I can't get in or out of it you know because of that and that's the only way that you're going to get in and out of that neighborhood is on uh de an Avenue off of Casablanca so to say that the boat ramp doesn't flood the streets that's incorrect so anyway that's all I have to say thank you thank you well if the timing is Right I'd like to i' move to approve make a motion to approve locating the replacement of the existing Don C our boat ramp at Don CeSar boat ramp which of the two locations if you wouldn't mind just being Don CeSar boat ramp keep it where it is and renovate it okay thank you sir I'll [Music] second city clerk if you would mind doing a roll call commissioner filtz yes commissioner Riki no vice mayor Lorenzen yes commission Mar commissioner marott yes mayor patrilla no motion carries 3 to two thank [Applause] you next we have action item 4B storm water pump station donces our neighborhood Mr Clark I believe you're up again your honor Commissioners the uh project is to position a future Pump Station at uh this particular location that is also going to receive one of the new outfall structures that have the improved baffle box and TI check valve vault uh combination what we're trying to do is in the near term uh prevent tidal flooding and storm water issues at that particular location by putting the outfall structure in place and then uh in the longer term uh if we do put a pump station in that location which is what the proposal is we want to make sure that that pump station is engineered to fit with the exist the current infrastructure so we're we're doing some long range planning here to make sure that everything's compatible and we don't have to go back out and rip something out or redesign it so this is specifically for moving the design forward yes any questions for Mike if you would like to make a public comment please fill out a card and hand it to the city clerk she has a lot of cards I doubt she'll be able to pull you your if you want to come show her that's fine C is it Craig okay come on Craig okay M where if you wouldn't mind uh waiting until you reach the mic and stating your name Craig stefen I live in the Donar place and uh I just have a question for Mike certainly you would mind addressing the sir if you wouldn't mind addressing the commission we do not oh I'm sorry I I was going to ask Mike cuz he was the one that was talking we can ask those questions on your beh uh where exactly would he put those pump stations would he put them uh on the the spillways or would they be in the park or where are they going to be we can ask that question once you're done with your public comments oh well that was my okay that was my question public comment thank you sir okay Mike where would you put the those stations hence the reason for a concept design thank you it will be in the general vicinity of that T intersection of I believe it's East maritana and whichever one comes out of lazarillo park um East yeah the one by your house and that's the Basin the Basin yes there's a T intersection there and uh so someplace in that in that proximity is a uh proposed uh Pump Station of the future and what would the pump station be used for to evacuate storm water um so so in a built out situation where the uh all of the seaw walls of the uh neighborhood are elevated we now have an uh a storm water evacuation scenario and so the pump stations would be evacuating the storm water and the tie check valve systems would be preventing tidal influence from coming through the seaw wall thank you any questions for Mike Mike these are for the existing outfalls right the ones that because you said the one on De Basin so this is for the ones that don't have a current structure correct this this is one particular location um at that intersection which does not yet have have an outfall structure one that we are at the improved version of the outfall structure is will be designed simultaneously with this project by the same firm uh the reason this really came up um was we had a parallel project going on and we did not expense all of the funds for that particular design by this firm and so we wanted to repurpose those funds and uh and go ahead and partner with this particular these two projects together so that in a longterm Vision we we get we get it right early on and I see this particular location as being fungible to the other locations where we would propose um storm water pumps at the outfall structures so this is going to set the footprint for long range thinking so just the one on B in and South maritana East maritana is that the I don't know if you have your stuff with you if you can show but I just want to make sure if you're just saying one because it says 30% design and I'm not quite sure what the 30% is 30% design is a concept sketch that shows that a future Pump Station would fit with the outfall structure that's going to be also designed and built we want to make sure that the placement of these structures they all fit and the piping between them NE futuristic piping and things of that nature that they're all they they all they're compatible and it all fits and when you talk about design you're talking back in that con the that original conceptual design that um was it Hoff and I forgot the other two groups um Haled both and the original conceptual design had pump stations in lazzarella park right and now what we've done is we've turned that design into fa you know as we did a second study we turned that design inside out and we put the pump stations on the perimeter that saved us a a lot of funding in reeva roads and redirecting storm water and things of that nature it it cut the cost of the future project down considerably any further questions for Mike would somebody like to make a motion I'll make a motion to approve um item 4B storm water excuse me Pump Station D is our neighborhood 30% design Second City Clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner Riki yes vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner Marriott yes Commission commissioner Philz yes mayor petrola yes motion carries next we have item 4 C the Out full re Rehabilitation five locations down Cesar neighborhood so we were talking about this in the uh previous item where we have five locations where we have built outfall structures uh people like to call them the ski ramps or the slopes or whatever that's fine uh and we have discovered over time that the tide check valve by itself at the outfall structure where it we're right on the bay is subject to debris uh clogging it open therefore it doesn't work or we have Marine growth that will latch onto it and similarly blocking it open so the amount of uh maintenance it would take to keep that thing working perfectly so everybody you know would would uh see that is extraordinary it's just not something that we can resource and so as we got to thinking about the causation of why the valve doesn't work from the debris and the Marine growth we separated the two out and we talked about the Marine growth and so if we bring a tide check valve back into a darkened and more uh freshwater environment it's not conducive to the Marine growth if we place that TI check valve valve behind a baffle box then all of the debris settles out before it reaches the ti check valve and if we place that TI check valve in a vault that allows for quick disconnects on a short section of pipe to be brought to the surface on a crane truck and then maintained on the surface uh then we've improved our maintenance posture dramatically and so those are the two concepts going into the thinking behind what we're trying to do here in order to protect our neighborhood in a more Rel relable fashion Mike where would the uh baffle box be in relation to the the ski jumps for lack of a better term uh pretty much everything will be out in the T area of the intersection in front of these outfall structures it'll be under the street okay and are these these are the same things we're talking about that cradle style unit where we'd pull out the bad put in a new one that's got eyelets on it so the maintenance can pull it out are we talking about the same thing here yes okay and I see that we've got the five for Don CeSar neighborhood which I completely um back 100% would that once that cradle style is developed would that be the same thing that we then Implement along passer go way for the flooding on on the seaw wall area there yes okay and that would come at a later time I'll be bringing that forward in a future commission meeting as soon as I get the the task order back from the design firm thank you so at this stage we're looking at a new design if this motion if if this gets approved then we will have a design phase later this is the sorry the we will have a a bidding process later to actually do the work correct okay it's I don't want to be the one that says you like who's at fault here right um but it seems like we spent very recently a lot of money to put those ski jumps in and so you know one of the questions I think is prudent to ask is you know why is it not working I mean you know we I assume at that time we had a similar design you know the same process that we're having right now somebody designed it somebody bid it got approved it got built where is the what happened I know you and I have had this conversation but I think it's important that you know our residents understand what the history of is and why we're here talking about rehabilitating something that's was it 2 years old 3 years old yeah so I think it's important to separate the structure itself and what it looks like from the tide check valve okay the two are completely different they just happen to locate in the same space the outfall structure is the the that sea the section of the seaw wall is owned by the city and so if we're going to touch it then we're going to bring it to code which means it's coming up to 5 feet we chose to do that at the time as a demonstration project so everybody in the neighborhood and other neighborhoods could visually see and feel what 5T navd88 looks like so that's it's a demonstration of height the the fact that it's got Wing walls on it is merely for a structural stability issue they would not be required if there you know everybody else was doing their thing we'd have helical tiebacks instead um so that structure was done for largely for that purpose now it just so happens that we have a pipe that goes through it to evacuate storm water so hey let's take a $3,000 check valve toss it in there and life is good that's that that was the advertisement and I'm not the only Public Works director storm water engineer or uh professional that bought that story um and comes to find out we had these two issues that uh make the ti check valve unreliable and so when you go back to the thinking about it how do you make the tie check valve reliable what other engineering principles do we have in play here that we can apply to this these locations to increase our reliability and protect ourselves against flooding and so as I said before we have the Marine growth which is a daylight and and salinity food source issue and we have the baffle the debris issue and so we broke those apart and then we have the maintenance issue and so we took all three of those ideas or aspects of it and said okay what are we going to do how can we do this using our principles of design and physics and engineering and Marine Biology and everything else we can think of how do we do this and so this project is going to uh design and go through that thought process incorporate all of those principles incorporate all those professional fields of uh of engineering and design and come up with a solution and just to further again just to clarify what this will do and what the purpose of this is because not just in the nonces our neighborhood but in many of the other neighborhoods we have two different types of flooding issues right we have high water and then we have just a lot of rain coming down this will address which of those two flooding issues both okay how so if if it worked perfectly now and these the situation with Marine growth and debris were not present then the tide check valve against the rising tide would close and if it rained then the rain would stack up behind the valve in the street but I'd rather drive through freshwat than saltwater When the tide goes down the head pressure of the water on the street would then push through the valve and evacuate that's the perfect storm we're going to do exactly that but we're going to do it farther back in the street Behind These protective measures just so that because this was something that I personally I don't mind saying I did not understand but when there is standing water on the road and there is a high tide it is designed to keep the rain water on the road and keep the sea water the salt water off the road so so it's designed to actually hold the rain water the fresh water until such time that the tide goes down and then the water on the street can evacuate into the bay that is correct it takes about 8 Ines of differential head pressure to push the storm water through the valve right so it's it's it's working the way it's designed at that time that's correct before the Marine growth took on it before the debris got into there they worked as they were advertised okay and this is deja vu for me but um and I'm and I'm happy to hear the mayor bring this up and and that that recognizes it because we can go back to when we originally designed the spillways or outfalls I don't want to call them ski ramps um and that question came up back then I know from myself as to whether we would have Barnacle growth and at that time I was told that it was going to be far enough back in that it would prevent Barnacle growth now you know I'm trying to get a solution okay and I'm not not not wanting to try something but if I feel like we tried something and it didn't work um even though we KN knew before the the design that it was a possibility that we could have growth but we were told that wasn't going to happen happened it was far back enough for it not to happen then during the construction of all these um outfalls um I already knew we were going to have more than just fresh water but also salt water because the seaw walls were not being addressed not only on private property but on city property because not all the outfalls are built on the whole stretch of city-owned property um and I know this might throw some of you off because you might not know the design but I know Mike is aware of this because God knows I had countless emails on this um the one on Don Jose if you any of you have driven around through there would see that it's much wider than the rest of them because that's the only one that was built from property line to property line of City Spillway the one on Alonso the one on alhamra um was not okay so water comes around the sides of of those spillways so so the mayor would be clear to understand we don't know if it's fresh water or if it's saltwater because the same comment you just mentioned earlier Mike saying I prefer to drive through fresh water I was told before the same comment um do I prefer to drive through fresh water I prefer to drive through no water um fresh water could be bad too the intersection closest to where I live is very deep on fresh water because of the slope and the pitch of the street so depending where you live you could have more water and and Mike you should be aware of this on 30 on 36 you got water backing up all the way past Casablanca not just East maritana that's fresh water um you shouldn't you know it's not going to prevent an issue okay for people trying to get out of their home Ingress or egress safety whatever it may be um I like that it is further back the the baffle box again didn't have enough time to really look into this whole thing I think Mike has mentioned this a couple of times about this potential design I know at the community meeting you kind of went over it um through the surface but I haven't had time to even discuss it or or understand it um do I hope it will fix it yes but can we 100% for certain know this engineering is going to fix it I think it's a question mark because it didn't fix it before the project ended March of last year to be exact um and my other question is I think the company had to retrofit I think is the word the flex files that weren't working on Alfonso alhamra and I think there was one more I'm not sure if it was a 3102 um was that done already by that company did they already come back out and fix the ones that that weren't correct tie check valves in two locations were replaced by the manufacturer and are those currently working 100% it's anybody's debate on any particular title rid as to whether or not they're working so we're not sure the the observations of everybody we've heard is that we have water behind the valves on a routine basis now whether it's coming through the valve or around the adjacent outfalls or up the up the up the uh the boat ramp you know I I'm not going to argue that the water is there uh I'm looking to offer what I believe is a advanced um engineering concept that uh I I believe uh has Merit if we would choose to try to do something else I'm perfectly happy to entertain any of those types of comments also is it I don't want to say safe but is it good to say it's almost like we're testing something right we build this test it out in these locations before even attempting to do it elsewhere right before B Vista does flood for residents who said they don't and he's okay well I've got a lot of residents from B Vista boaa um who call and complain so everybody's complaining I don't think everyone's okay with it um but it's a big investment um we did invest a lot before this is a 57 if I remember the number for the design we don't know what the cost yet will be to do it um so it'll take some time to be able to replicate this right before we say you know this is working um let's invest this in passag Grill let's invest this in boaa let's invest it in you know district one through four right um it could take time and then not really know I'm not going to offer you any guarantees nothing nothing is perfect we are advancing engineering principles and knowledge in ways that they didn't teach me in college and as I talk to all of my colleagues we are all cities and led by Public Works directors for their engineering we are all collaborating and thinking about the same thing so when the tie check vals came in uh we all said H yeah this concept has been around for 100 years let's give it a shot on this particular situation that is new and we all learned the same thing together and so um I have shared my thoughts with uh the County Public Works director team and uh everybody's kind of waiting and and taking a look at what we're designing what we're doing um I've been asked for my ti Chuck valve Vault concept by a number of other agencies to include the fdot so we are we are applying engineering principles to challenges that we didn't we didn't foresee uh as much as 10 15 years ago but they're here now and they're like they are Stark in our face here now and so we can choose to continue to try to do our best and rely on engineering principles and thought and intuitiveness and give it a shot or we can sit back and say well I don't think that's going to work and we'll do something different the TR the choice is entirely y'all's and Mike with the pump station is that going to work in conjunction with this so would the pump station be pumping the storm water out pump stations will be storm water pump stations so there wouldn't be fresh water then either right because you would pump out storm yeah the pump stations will be designed to trigger at a certain depth on the street itself so um probably uh we we'll have to we'll have to figure out what the uh what the design criteria for the the pumps will be um you know water in the gutter a certain volume of water um you know all those calculations come in play and and so but um but that's that that's still a long way off we're we are the pump station though at the same time right the we are we are the concept design is only to make sure that it fits in the space not the design of the pump itself no we're going to take a box that represents a reasonable size pump and we're to make sure that that box fits and orients itself in into the space with the other devices and all the other utilities that happen to be there and Mike I think that's why we're only doing the 30% on that at this point that is correct if I could add one other mayor if you don't mind if I can that on this particular item on the the five locations I've always liked being our staff being Innovative and being the leader and finding Solutions but as we all know the solution that everyone thought was a good one with with what you know the check valves did not work does not work and you know from what I've seen of of this solution it's it certainly would address those problems uh I guess my my question or maybe the discussion we should have uh the pros and cons maybe of only doing one of those locations now instead of all five um I I know the the downside would be we would be putting off the other four for for a while and getting those done but I guess the pro the side of it would be we' be testing a location out to find out if it really works the way we we thought it would work so that may be a discussion we should have Mike if you have further ideas on that and I know the cost would probably go up by separating them also but but uh that might be a discussion we should have we can certainly do one location as a advanced test and we will go through five or six months of design um we might be able to speed the procurement up by using an existing um contractor that we have uh and be in construction um which are funds that are not appropriated yet I don't have uh CF funds for these um but uh construction could take place uh prior to the 25 hurricane season if we just do one uh and then we ride that hurricane season out and see how it works and so basically uh you you take your one location you sacrifice off all of the others and it's not just these other four there's two in B Vista there's six in pasag Grill um and there are three others in the Don CeSar neighborhood all of those locations will remain open for another two years instead of we give it a shot and uh even if it doesn't work perfectly once the structures there it gives us a whole lot more information physically uh and from observation as to is is it working as designed or if it's not working as designed it will show us why not so the the Lessons Learned off of that will be far less costly if we go all in than we will be if we Peca it in terms of uh the potential for future flooding and damage just just to clarify the 57k and it's for design that doesn't include construction this is design strictly designed so it doesn't include fabricating the part trenching it out putting it in okay so this is just to design it okay for the five locations yeah which should be the same for all of them right it should be yeah they'll be very very similar so the Topography is a little bit different so you have to survey the utilities existing will have to be identified and you have to work around those I mean each intersection has a little bit of uniqueness to it but the concept is the same for all of them but just to make sure I understand this includes in that Design This is what the unit would look like with the eyelets and all that type of thing yes well that piece of the design is already done separately and commissioner maybe I wasn't clear you know the the design you know would be for all five but you could make that decision and once the Design's done do you want to do all five of them now or do you want to do one but that'll be a future decision thank you yeah I think in the perfect world Mike would stand up here and say do this and I guarantee you that this will fix your problem but I think we heard that the first time right well I know you didn't say I guarantee it um but I I think as I see it now our option is do try something right give it our best shot based on the data and information engineering we have or do nothing um I don't think doing nothing is an option at all and so I would you know I'm more inclined to you know let's look at a design let's you know I don't even like the idea of putting it in one location location cuz then that puts us in 2026 before we can even look at the other locations but at the same time I don't know what the number is going to be but it's going to be a big number and I also don't think that we should spend all that money on five locations and maybe it doesn't work maybe we'll find something if we do one location maybe we find a different problem maybe we'll have to redesign and re-engineer that location we don't know um I think we're just making decision based on the best data that we have today but as you mentioned you know 10 15 years ago you don't have today's data as near as I can tell from around the region um we stand here today on The Cutting Edge of ideas and I know you mentioned that before that the county has approached you that uh you know Florida the Florida has approached you maybe I'm sure you've probably spoken to other city man sorry City uh Public Works directors has anyone said hey we we'll go in with you to try this right has anyone has Florida or the county everybody's having a hard enough time protecting their Turf yeah so you know I'm sure that's let's say that we design this and it works like magic and then everybody else comes Mike can we have you design um there is a question before the attorney on on the issue of patent yes yeah okay me I'm willing to hand this thing out if it's going to help people I'm inclined to agree with you I think it'd be nice if on a friend end especially the county said look here's something that we can work with st be Beach maybe that's a phone call we can make and say look it's $50,000 if you can pitch in half of that and then part of our contribution will be look when we we'll be the guinea pig we'll do this one and then if it works we'll share it with all the other cities and municipalities in in penel County we could certainly do that yes sir yeah I'm all in again but again this is just for design it no shovels the dirt nothing yeah yeah and again it's I think it's a you know the county takes a fair amount of tourist development tax out of St Pete Beach I don't know 15 17 million every year so if we ask for $227,000 I don't think that's a this could be a resiliency fundraiser could be all right do we have any audience comments Kathy Gara if you please state your name and address for the record Kathy Gara Dan is our place um so there was just a couple of quick things first of all I'm super excited to see action moving forward is always great getting some new designs awesome redo not good obviously don't need to restate that two things one um Mike you mentioned uh it sounds like I don't know I said that the right way there's an update to this um so I would request that if we have an update I can't find it anywhere um and it would be important I think to share that with the community and maybe even do a community Town Hall cuz I think you can see we're all pretty excited about this whether you're in bista Don CeSar pass a grill we all want to know what's going on in the space um the other thing is um you know we look at the boat ramp or we look at um the idea of these outfalls um it's great but I think placing it over an overall plan um and knowing that this all feeds together to serve uh an overall strategy I think that's what would be really helpful so that as we're as you place your bets like for example doing 57 I don't know what the number is I did not read that level of detail but if it's $57,000 to do five why if we have nine plus we have two for f Dot and something else why not do it all I mean get the economies a scale because we don't just want five we need nine um so I I guess that would be the thing let's let's if we're going to move forward let's go ahead and make the bet that this is the study now and let's get a design to support the study and then we could work on funding models with you all with assessments with grants and with government bonds to help us pay for this over the next couple of years instead of being here again looking at a Revis plan because it will always get better there'll always be another way to do this better just give it time um so that's my other ask is just to get this against an a bigger plan and share that plan um the last thing is it's just a question of Maintenance and I know this is probably not a very fun topic but we did place our bets on what we have um maybe maintenance I think we heard Mike talk there was there's not Staffing Wayne I don't know what the situation is but if we could maintain what we have right now to get us by I would just beg you to do that so what's the cost to maintain what we have because even if we're in Design This is years out so what can we do to just maintain what we have get the Barnacles and debris out make a commitment to that for the next six months help the infrastructure we have work better thank you thank you Cameron if you'll please state your name and address for the record okay Cameron Mauch West maritana Drive um I'm just curious I I I hear a lot of things that sound very complex and honestly in my opinion it sounds like it's something too complex for just a city worker to be handling on his own and I don't think that the city of St Pete Beach is going to produce something that's going to save the rest of the country or the World by the design I think that's very overarching and I'm wondering why we're not hiring tried andrue engineering firms and construction companies to come up with a plan that will work and they will be responsible for if it fails in the public sector if you work for a company and you produce failures and cause the company money you lose your job but it seems like there's not a lot of accountability when failures occur here so if we hire out we hold them responsible we have them fix the problem that they created because right now it seems like we create a problem and then we get to go and have a second or third or fourth attempt at it and absolutely if we were to follow that path I would definitely not suggest doing them all at the same time because if you have the same problem we've just multiply by five and the cost of it um the other statement I don't know if I can ask a question or not but it it's in regards to this um seaw wall this non-permanent while it's going to be put up that's the item what's the purpose of it that's the next agenda item will be discuss the reason I bring it up is because we're talking about spending money to put up something temporary for what because I know our neighborhood could use a temporary seaw wall so why is it okay to spend the money to put up a temporary seaw wall there and not in our neighborhood and if you say it's because to because you own the seaw wall I don't understand that logic because the seaw wall is going up to protect the land not the seaw wall and we need that protection too um I would ask and I would be willing to help in any way I can as a resident um but we do need a plan to get these seaw walls up in our neighborhood and I don't I don't think we should be fighting and having the standoff of who's going to pay for it I think we should it should be a collaboration but I know a lot of residents that live on the water that are willing to put up the money but there's no plan and we have to do it all at the same time so it's really going to take us working together and I'm willing to be part of it if I need to be but we need to get we need to get more communication between all the people have seaw walls and with the city and how we can move forward thanks thank you Jerry if you'll please state your name and address for the record Jerry I Angelo 2702 pass rway um I want to piggyback off a comment made um two presenters ago having to do with the again these these title uh check valves I'm not willing to want to wait a year or two to find out whether or not the next iteration of a solution is going to be applicable to the valves that are along pass ofr way so the piggyback comment has to do with is there anything that can be done now to make these valves working again I mean if they're failed fix them or replace them I heard um Mike mention that these recent spillways they lasted maybe two years was replaced by the manufacturer so I would like clarification as to whether or not the valves installed pass away are not accessible at all so therefore there cannot be any kind of temporary remediation um again to me I would find that very hard to believe but if we're going to go along this path of another iteration do it once see how that goes before applying it to our stretch of pass away that just puts more of the problem of flooding and water incursion and property damage upon us um until there's something done so that's all I want clarification is can anything be done now to either service or replace those the valves and then if the this other concept valve works then then do it again thank you thank you John kurman no slides John man uh be he on the way I'm just want to provide some information that I've mentioned before and that is that people have told me that they're having flooding where they didn't used to have flooding and I went back and I looked at the Noah records and the records of actual water levels and we have people reporting flooding on 59th Avenue um as well as B Vista but they're reporting both of those people reported mentioned to me that they're seeing Flooding at High levels penetrating their houses doing things and when I go back the water level was not as high as it had been in Prior times when they didn't have problems so at first I you know one idea was well it's because they have the check valves and the check valves weren't working but I heard tonight the check valves have only been around in for maybe two years or at least that model um so I'm just throwing out there what else Chang you can't blame global warming because the water is lower than it was the issue is we're getting more flooded for the same level of water and we I think we just need to figure out why that is maybe maybe Mike knows the answer and he can share it but but what fundamentally has changed not to the environment but that we actually have worse situation for the same level of water that's that's my question I think we have to figure that out thank thank you sir okay commissioner any further comments or questions from Mike I I do want to just just because um some of the residents brought it up and I don't know if if you all want to talk about it but the com the company responsibilities like the um I know Cameron mentioned um and it popped up as a question in my mind about the prior um you know they came back and refitted those Flex FES the ones that that were no good right there wasn't fit it right whatever it may be is there a level of responsibility on those contracts for them to repair or do something different um because it's not what we thought you know I mentioned earlier when we were all talking this is deja vu for me because we thought the design of where those Flex vows were was okay as far as growth um because it does tie back to what a lot of the residents are saying about why the ones that we have right now failing and we know it's maintenance um we don't have the equipment to maintain them or the staff if you want to say it's the staff but I think think there was an issue of equipment um to clean some of these out or how frequently do they do this um what is the schedule of especially with storms coming what is the schedule of maintenance for the current ones that we have even for like the Don SAR area or pass a grill who actually did have theirs done way before ours um how frequently do they go and clean them out um I I I could not imagine that it was designed that you could not access it it it just kind of you know baffle box but baffles me right that that we can't access and clean and maintain um whether it's ours or the ones that do own um I know um another Resident who lives off of the Bayway we have issues with those Flex files and if any of you are familiar um Barcelona Granada all of them are flooding because there's either garbage lodged in there and the frequency of coming out and cleaning it out is infrequent um so so that's just a question maybe you know city manager Mike or someone can address um why that's happening um I know I think we also mentioned Seawall plan I I just wanted to throw this out because it triggered a memory I don't think I mentioned this at a commission meeting but last year and Amber you might be able to help me because I know you help me there was a motion um by the prior commission back in June I think it was of 2023 for a plan on the seaw walls of Donar where are we on that well I can Mike you can help me but I think what I've been told as far as maintenance it's a not a matter of not enough people or equipment it's a matter of being able to maintain them the way they're designed Mike you may want to add to that but it's it's not a staffing or equipment it's it's uh just the ability the way those are designed and installed to actually do the maintenance and that's why you know they're looking at a different design that would address that maintenance issue one of the things that that they're addressing um you know as far as whether you know the engineering firm is responsible I think that was your first question you know there's certain assumptions that are always made in in designs and you know I heard the discussion you I wasn't here but I heard the discussion that they talked about well everybody thought that where they're located the Marine growth would not obviously that's a an assumption that was was wrong you know if there's a mechanical problem with so then that's obviously the problem that the manufacturer has to address and they did address on a couple of them I believe so uh I don't know Mike if you have anything else at I believe that answers your question and as far as the motion for the seaw wall do we know what ever happened with that I do not know anything about that one then I would just like someone to follow up on it sure all right do we have a motion and again this is for the design we can revisit later how many have okay I'll move to approve uh item 4C outfall Rehabilitation locations donces our neighborhood Second City Clark If you please do a r call vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner filtz yes commissioner Riki yes mayor patrilla yes motion carries thank you next we have item 4D temporary seall at 36th Avenue the sea wall that the city owns at the Terminus of 36 AV Avenue is a little unique um it's about it's 50t wide right away and it's about 2.6 ft cap elevation it has a Department of Transportation storm water pipe that runs through it underneath the road and then we have our surface rainwater evacuation running through a pipe on the surface the structure is fractured quite significantly and has gotten worse over the last couple of years so the source of flooding in that neighborhood is through the holes in that seaw wall nothing else the there are tie check valves there's one on the surface and it appears to be functioning well and there is one in the fdot line that also appears to be functioning well um that the flooding in that neighborhood every high tide is coming through the fractures of the concrete wall the solution to this particular location is more complex than most partially because of the different types of pipes going through there but also because of how the rain water will flow uh in a in a uh in a future um design and so in designing this particular solution rainwater will be going into new inlets that will be constructed flowing backwards up the street through the baffle box that's already existing and then through the new a new check valve and then back through the wall where all of the others continue to flow uh through that wall or and an inlet in close proximity so there's so there's Road elevations and things that are going to be incorporated into this project by necessity to have the storm water actually flowing in the right direction um the attempt at doing a really nice living Shoreline was uh thwarted by the Florida Administrative Code uh we cannot go out into the water uh with our uh water quality uh thoughts and nearly as far as we wanted to so recognizing that we were not going to win in an argument against the State of Florida anytime soon we re uh we modified that design to cut that distance back severely and we and we went to a different permitting process which is much quicker much faster but still takes time and that's where we're at with the the bigger project at this point well we're not going to get into construction anytime soon we the procurement process itself with bidding and everything we're not going to get into construction this hurricane season but we're going to go through this hurricane season and this particular location lends itself to a temporary fix the plan is to excavate out one bucket width wide a half a yard bucket in front of the existing wall form it up and put flowable concrete fill into that space it will flow into the voids in the wall and it will form a bond against the existing concrete against the and against the soils behind it and it will halt the flooding coming through that seaw wall and it will uh hold that neighborhood dry uh in all cases except an over topping in the future that's what this this project is designed to get this neighborhood through this hurricane season for this amount of money is that like injections you know I I forgot the name of the company similar so it's similar to the injections and I only I bring this up only because you know with the fails that we have waiting for the living Shoreline on the other side of mar you know on maritana um we did have a company who came out forgot the name of the company starts with an H I'm stuck on it that does injections they call it injections when when they come out um but because of the severity of the seaw wall they did not recommend it and and hearing you say it's cracked I'm I'm assuming it's just as severe um as the ones that are along South maritana I think the other the ones along South maritana are a little bit more advanced in their deterioration than this particular one uh I've looked at it with the contractor and with our construction inspector with an engineer and uh our conclusion is that the flowable fill correctly mixed will hold and plug those voids and we will have a tight bomb in a tight seal and my other question is I might have a couple more why not just make a seaw wall why do we need a temporary one what why why go in the living we have an issue with the living Shoreline design I know we're going for a second attempt redesigning it making a little bit different but why not make a permanent seaw wall and if we could add a living Shoreline component to it add it later um and not spend the money on a temporary and get a company out and make a permanent seaw wall at the five nav um like the ordinance requires the company that we have can do this work under an existing contract and can start in a couple of weeks for me to go out and procure for a new seaw wall we won't be in construction until the end of the cons until the end of the hurricane season this is this is all about timing and and I would still have to take that wall out because it doesn't solve the drainage problems the the design is much much more complex than just tossing a wall across the the the space I a good question um has the city used this type of temporary seaw wall design anywhere else in the past not to my knowledge what happens if we do nothing and neighborhood will continue to flood on a weekly basis so in simple terms it's a Band-Aid fix for a hurricane season this pushes us through until the end of the hurricane season yes and during that time we will Advance Design get our permit go ahead through procurement actions go ahead get a Contractor on board and and after the hurricane season maybe around the December January time frame move into construction Mike obviously you had flooding in that neighborhood what happens on those events were comes over all the seaw walls anyway let me rephrase that so this would keep normal rain events or normal Tides from going through the cracks but on those bad days where it goes over the top of the seaw walls does it on occasion go all the way up to the homes the number of times uh that has come over top of the seaw wall is limited to the bigger events the idalia the herine um those types of Events maybe three in the last eight years or so so if it's over topping the seaw wall cap then it's it's game over the water will seek its elevation yeah this is this is the daily the weekly the high tide that's the king tide the the heavy rains this you know this is the the tidal effects that the neighborhood is experiencing but it doesn't affect the homes for those title events just the cars being able to drive through them it gets up pretty good it gets uh 18 to 20 inches in the intersection and uh so cars have stalled out they you know and uh the wake goes up into people's garages uh it's killing all the grass and the Shrubbery it's the same situation that we have in other neighborhoods uh in this particular neighborhood we have this particular solution because of this particular circumstance it solves this problem temporarily for the entire neighborhood we don't have that circumstance any place else that I'm aware of so Mike on the city-owned seaw walls I'm guessing you have a a a list of inorder of of most needing to be replaced we do and and is is this one on like the list of next needs to be replaced anyway it is and and then this is also the Band-Aid for this storm season or or or till we can get a new seaw wall in that spot because it's not just storms right it's correct any old high tide okay Wayne can you tell me what the I'm sorry go ahead um what what's the time for procurement just so that we know you know if we say no we want a permanent seaw wall instead what's the time frame actual time frame if we say urgently we want this forward at least 90 days after procurement after we get permits after you get a design right after we get permits I'm talking about if we're ready to try to find someone to build a seaw wall you know we put it out advertise it at least for 30 days sometimes longer so we can get several contractors then the bids have to be reviewed then they have to be brought to you then they have to be approved and then the contractor has to get it on their schedule so you know from the time you actually put a job out on the street to you see shovels moving you're six months U or more but the other part as Mike said you've got to get the permitting done in there before we can actually award a bid also and and is the permit is the permit from the city cuz it's just a a seaw wall we're not talking about living Shoreline going out further uh Mike can you address the permitting process uh state after EP process so every seaw wall in the city goes through FD process we have to permit as a city through the state yes on every one of them so every homeowner takes about six months to get their sea wall up if they request one is what we're saying well a homeowner doesn't have to go through the procurement process that we go through but that's 90 days to get it going right so but I mean at the moment of Permitting it takes that much longer for and again I'm just trying to I would rather get something permanent than temporary obviously but you know it it is not the only intersection flooding in our neighborhood and I know I see my 36 people here so it's not that I don't want it um addressed but I want it fixed you know not not not just Band-Aid um because I'm sure Mike can't give me a 100% guarantee that this is going to Band-Aid it temporarily yeah this is a this is a Band-Aid that we think will help the situation until we can get a permanent uh a permanent structure build I think I know where you're going so this is almost mid June so if we said yes right now what would be your estimate before shovels would start digging in walls which I I mean for a real one not the temporary one actually for the temporary one too uh for the temporary one from time of go um two weeks and then one week to finish I don't need a permit so no permit okay I was I didn't know that I don't believe we even need a city permit for this one W I don't think so no city clerk do we have any audience comments yes sir okay any further questions for Mike thank you thank you Mike do we have a motion uh I'll move to approve the construction of a temporary sea wall at 36 AV by Roland Inc in the amount of $ 364573 Second City Clerk you feel please do a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Philz yes commissioner Riki yes vice mayor Lorenzen yes mayor patella yes motion carries thank you mayor yes sir since I'm the oldest guy sitting here at the de can we have like five minute break are you though I'm right there with you all right uh let's call it 850 when we return thank you thank you thanks e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e see that they put a stay on that all right next we have ordinances 5A final reading and public hearing ordinance 2024 01 technical Review Committee attendance city clerk sure thank you an ordinance of the city of St Pete Beach Florida amending the code of ordinances chapter 22 boards committees commissions article 6 technical Review Committee parent TRC section 22-1 146 membership providing for codification conflicts severability correction of scriveners error construction publication and an effective date thank you City attorney okay um this is a ordinance final reading of it it's very simple it basically adds uh to the TRC uh the membership being City attorney city clerk um so it's in chapter 22 where you have your boards and committees so um I think the reason for that is that you know these these committees have become more important um so I think formalizing them a little bit uh we've been attending them my staff has been attending them via Zoom um you know some of the issues discussed are very very minor and uh but some of them are not and I think it's important that the the minutes and everything are taken and notices are done correctly and that's what the clerk does and you know if I need if myself or someone from my firm one of the attorneys needs to jump in because there are frequently Attorneys at these at these meetings that um staff may need some assistance with with thank you any questions or comments do we have a motion mayor I do do we have any yeah Deborah shner please state your name and address for the record good evening Deborah shna boa Isle Drive I did notice um a while back at one of the meetings that was recorded part of it was left out so I don't know if that was a glitch or what but I would like to see a backup maybe just voice recording during these meetings and to me there were other people there it was a very significant um piece of information that was left out of one of the meeting during a recording and so I want to know that maybe there's backup maybe there's something else so that we make sure that everything is recorded properly and um I think it's important even for everybody up there to watch those meetings so I don't know if we can watch them if they're recorded the next day or how you going to do that going to be the same as watching a board meeting or a commission meeting that it is on the city website and and I really really think that's important to do thank you thank you yeah it was something that we addressed last year where we uh specifically requested that um they would be recorded and broadcast so I I have noticed I'm not sure which specific meeting Mrs shner is speaking about but I have noticed on several other meetings and recordings where there are seem to be glitches on a regular basis where uh certain sections are missing and sometimes on the we the city's YouTube channel the recording has a section that is missing on the city's website recording or vice versa and so I that'd be something would be greatly if he could have looked into yeah saw too yeah it's it's I've seen it about three or four different times recently do you see it just I'm sorry do you see it for all other means or TRC specifically uh City commission meetings planning board meetings um y I've seen it on and it it happens regularly where a five minute chunk is missing from somewhere so go ahead I'm not sure why you're going walking away if you please state your name and address for the record Dana Richardson 5830 Bahama Way South I just want to say I've noticed that you used to put on the website the uh district meetings and I think the last one was 2022 the d The District three meeting got put on but any of the other ones like that we had for district two or not or district one so if you could please make sure those get recorded and added that'd be awesome thank you thank you make a comment on that the district 2 town hall is on the city website if you go to my profile on the city website it's under there thank you any further discussion on item five a I move to adopt ordinance city clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner filtz yes commissioner Riki yes vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner marott yes mayor patella yes motion carries all right next we have items for discussion 5A Florida League of cities government week activity city clerk I believe that's you excuse me mayor before before you do that because I I was just following through the agenda um that page 213 is that the waste the addendum to Wastewater system repairs is that like just something that is in our packet that's not supposed to be there just I want to make sure that I'm attaching things to where on my computer I don't know if you all notice from page 213 to 246 there's an addendum one Wastewater Systems Repair issued September 7th 2021 and it goes on and on and and I believe it's not tied to anything that's in our agenda so I just you know I don't know if a correction needs to be made or just noted that that was just something that made maybe was put there by mistake or error you don't know what page number it starts on page 213 we let Mike Escape too early well I know it's it's roll in company it has nothing that we've approved you know prior so and I know it doesn't have anything to do with the Odor Control device that we approved and the consent agenda I was just waiting to see if something was going to come up before you on to the next section um I mean that would have been before section five yeah I didn't maybe that's something the can take a look at same company part of the it was included I'm sorry commissioner mayor um it was included in the temporary seaw wall item D and when I was publishing this I did notice it but I don't I don't know Public Works of stuff so I just assumed it went with it but I did notice it and I questioned before I pushed it out but I was at my my due my due time mhm I don't know if he just does it matter here's me it might have just been in there by mistake okay then I'll say it was by mistake and it's noted it's the same company yeah it has nothing to do with the seawall right all right okay thank you city clerk 68 so yes I provided you all last week or last meeting with the couple copies or a couple pages from what the Florida Lega cities sent me regarding Florida city government week and um prior to this year other years I was never emailed anything or mailed anything like this and it was pretty much last minute so I was actually pretty excited to have this so that we could kind of come together at ahead of time and figure something out and the couple of things that I gave you guys like we talked about last time was um doing the youth for for the school and like asking for an essay maybe from fifth graders maybe what would you do if you were commissioner for a day or mayor for a day and having them write um a little essay about that and having them come to a commission meeting you all can review them and then the other one was a bingo with different businesses and um that was pretty low cost when the city of Longwood did it they did it for about 160 bucks so I thought one of those two options for us I just wanted your feedback on what you'd like me to do if anything I thought the Bingo idea was a cool idea I like both of them yeah I like the school thing too yeah you just want me to pick one I like I mean I know it's too much to say both but can you or or at least see if the see if the school is interested in participating in something like the sa contest you know yeah sounds good next we have item 6B Beach ordinance um yeah I had asked for that to be put on the agenda and I know we just spent a lot of time talking about that last week but um as I often do I walked out of that meeting feeling like I did not express myself well so I wanted I wanted a second shot at it um at the end of the the meeting with the beach stewardship committee I had um questioned uh you know like pulling some sections of that beach ordinance apart and and I think that my my reason for that got lost a little bit in that discussion and and um and that's why I wanted to bring it back up is just that um in looking at that at that beach ordinance it's a big it's a big document that covers a lot of things and so my my goal is you know that that that the commission and pre we and previous commissions and the beach stewardship committee have been talking about this a lot over a lot of years and I was thinking man how great would it be if we could get some portion of that to actually happen um you know potentially even before you know the Labor Day holiday weekend or something like that or or to to get some things happening a little bit sooner and so my my thought was and and that also when it comes to the the first and second readings of the ordinance that um I feel like there's most of the ordinance which I'm sure plenty of people will have a lot of things to say about and then there's the part of the ordinance involving the chairs behind the hotels which I also think a lot of people will have a lot of things to say about and so in the interest of of allowing kind of um multiple public comment times or public comment on a couple of different big issues and in interest of being able to perhaps get us through to the point where we could um have a little bit more control or at least knowledge about um businesses that are operating on the beach through the licensing portion of the ordinance um and some of those kinds of things if we didn't want to consider pulling the um the discussion about the the chairs and the setbacks and I think another another reason I was thinking of of pulling that section out is just the time that it might take and I don't know if Jennifer you still here um if you have any uh input for us on like realistically how long it's going to take to get the information back that we were asking for when we start talking about setbacks and you know property lines and you know all of the stuff that's involved in that um it's twofold because part of that is the business impact letter that we also have to prepare so I think when we talked about it we were looking down the road 90 plus days to get all of that stuff together um I think Matthew and I are comfortable with everything else but that part of it um I know there is a um I think Lisa left but there is a um Beach stewardship um next week Amber to discuss the turtle lighting and the turtle issues that's a separate thing as we separated that out I think everything else outside of the Cabanas I think we're we're pretty clear from you all and from the beach stewardship Committee of being able to prepare that and and present that pretty quickly if we take that section out and that allows us just to work on that section which then might speed it up a little bit so I think we're comfortable with that I don't want to say John kersman was right by taking things um not in one hole so I'll be on record but I think Matthew and I are both comfortable with that if you are that we can come to you sooner like she said and probably get a first second read hopefully before Labor Day with a majority of what was in there um other than the Cabanas and these turtle um environmental things so thank you so I didn't know if anyone had any feelings about that one way or another or or or if if like we had talked about last week everyone we would rather just keep keep it all together even if it takes you know even if it's you know October November December before we can get the whole thing sorted out and I agree with commissioner um Marriott that because I always saw that as more administrative part of the ordinance um kind of like you know we have our Waterway and we're trying to figure out um how we get what's the permitting going to be for commercial entities to use the boat ramp you know since that was up about here um that I see that more administrative I don't know I mean it could be added later if we wanted to be part of the ordinance but that that was such an administrative piece um that you could still approve the beach ordin while they work on the administrative piece of setbacks and density and and so forth because there is a lot of differences between all the different hotels and um Condominiums you know um and also private properties uh homes and and so forth so I I would agree I think that's a good idea yeah seems seems reasonable to me it's all right we don't have public comments in this section so I thought this was the did you bring your your six people with you because you already had four minutes today yeah all I know we we had discussed this at the beach stewardship Workshop um we are so close to the end of getting this done if we break this up into multiple sections we're going to have to do two different impact studies we're going to have to do multiple readings over and over again I mean we're basically at the Finish Line part of me says you know we've we've already been advised that um there are groups getting together ready to basically file lawsuits against the city the moment that we even touch the beach ordinance um I can tell you I have spoken to businesses who are part of the chamber who are saying the chamber is organizing those meetings right and to me this sounds like specifically singling out a group and letting them off the hook and just kicking the can for down and when you look at where is the biggest impact on the beach it's not from residents it's from the chairs from the Cabanas it is from the hotel it is from the visitors and by leaving this out of the whole big picture we're again not addressing the issue that is causing all the problems that we have whether it's overcrowding whether it's alcohol in the beach whether it's pollution whether it's the sea turtles the skimmers the trash on the beach and I think we're not doing our residents service with three years we've been working on this beach ordinance and we are this close from the finish line and again we're we're we're specifically singling out the one section and leaving that out that will have the greatest impact and actually having a nicer Beach a more userfriendly Beach a more safe Beach something that we can be proud of a cleaner Beach something more environmentally conscious addressing the what the issues that we have with the environmental impact especially on endangered species so I for one I am I think we're letting people off the hook by not addressing the issues that need to be addressed and we do a lot of talking and we talk for three years it's time for action and we're disclosed from having the information we need so we can move forward I I I appreciate your view on that my my goal is not at all to let anyone off the hook it's to it's to get the portion that we can get done quickly done quickly and it's not to not keep working on the other part and get it done in the same time frame it would get done anyway it's to get the other part done more quickly and and perhaps I feel that way because on the section of beach that's closest to me which is north of the postcard in what I see when I walk over there is people who have four 10x10 tents tied together on the beach and that's part of what the beach ordinance would address what I see is seven different companies that are doing professional bikini photo shoots on the beach and on the rocks at Sunset that's keeping residents and anybody else from being able to even get to the beach and see the sunset and get to the water because there's you know a popup changing room and seven different cameramen and and lights and what I see is an elaborate wedding or proposal set up in front of The Secret Garden that where where after dark they flip on LED lights that are very bright so they can have this perfect photo shoot scenario for this for this thing that's happening and and this would give us the chance to get a hand on some of those things before summer is over it's not at all to let anybody off the hook or to say that we're not going to follow through with the rest of these things it's that we could get this one chunk done probably by Labor Day and and to to control some of the density and intensity on the beach more quickly rather than leaving all of it until and maybe it would just be November you know and and we would have it all done and so C certainly if if everybody felt like that was the right call we could absolutely do that um but but I just wanted to be real clear that my goal had nothing to do with letting anyone off the hook or removing a section from what we're doing it's just separating them out so that we can do the section that's very immediately achievable and could make an immediate difference so that we can do that and make that difference immediately rather than waiting on all of it until we have the more complicated part done done we're waiting on a couple setbacks information and that's it it's not complicated well it's not complicated but staff has told me that it's probably going to take 60 or 90 days and you know what this is June July August September that puts us past Labor Day into October before we have a first reading and then we're going to take resources away from actually competing that work because we're going to focus on getting the first and second reading getting the impact study done for this so that then we can double up and have the work done again for a second impact study where we could just have one done I I think I think that the the the the work on the impact study is not being duplicated because it's it's it's different impacts I mean the the the impact studies are going to be are going to have to be done for all of the different impacts regardless so it's not it's not like you're it's not like you're creating more work you're splitting the work up into bite-sized chunks you know you don't you don't eat an elephant in one bite right you know like like we're we're splitting things up into bite-sized chunks that can be achieved so that we can make something happen versus waiting until we can do it all at once I mean this isn't the hill I'm going to die on you know it was I I my my feeling was that I didn't express it well last week um and so I wanted to to to bring it back up just to make sure that everybody understood what what my goal was and my goal is just to get a chunk of the beach ordinance that could make a difference on what's happening on the beach done sooner rather than later I think you expressed yourself quite well at the meeting and I think we had this exact same conversation at that meeting and I find it interesting that you would bring it up now in the absence of the other five individuals who disagree with that Viewpoint I well I I I don't know that they disagreed with that Viewpoint I there were several of them that were noing their had conversation and we had consensus that we do it all as one now we want to reopen that discussion in absence of the five individuals who participa in that discussion and who are instrumental in getting this ordinance passed sure I I brought it back up because I felt like when I walked out of that meeting at the end I felt like the direction that the discussion went I felt like my intention wasn't clear and that that that I I had I felt like I had not clearly expressed my intention and what I was trying to accomplish by splitting it up and so if I was in correct about that I mean I I I I feel a little bit like you're trying to insinuate that I'm trying to do something underhanded which I am absolutely not doing I want to be very clear about that my intentions are to try to actually accomplish something when the wheels of government turn so slow that it is incredibly painful for everybody who's sitting out here and so because we've been talking about this for so long my goal was to try to accomplish something we absolutely don't have to is it worth bringing the staff thoughts on what's just transpired between the two real quick I don't mean another meeting I mean right now I don't want to put you on the spot if you don't want to comment W you go ahead I mean I can lend just some procedural tools maybe um I understand the reason for the request uh is that this is an operational part of the ordinance that um staff believes that there needs to be more data collected on it to support it um when you're dealing with legislation uh it can come we can advertise it's two readings first and second reading you can always you know carve that out during the first hearing or the even the second hearing I mean it's legislation so if um just offering you that as a as another procedural process that if you can't come to a consensus on doing that um bifurcated process you can start the process and I don't know how long it will take for step to if it's 90 days 20 days I haven't talked about that but during the first reading if it gets to where you believe that that section of it's unwieldy or for some reason you want any section really you can make changes during that um that's what the purpose of the first and second reading is for I think that's a great idea you know to move forward as quickly as we can to get the first reading and between now and then you know our staff can look at well how long is it going to take what do we need to do and we could better address the concerns about getting something done now rather than later so you know I think it's a great suggestion get get it get that first reading done uh we can gather more information and even before the SEC at the second reading you could still make a change so you you know at least we would get the process going as quickly as possible yes first get I just want to make sure I understand what you said get the first reading done with a chunk pulled out or just push the whole thing forward and and revise it as we yeah push the whole thing forward now as the first reading or not now but get the first reading on as soon as possible uh as written and uh then at at that first hearing we could probably have some more information on the timeline on what it could do uh but you could either move it forward like it is then or carve something out or you could wait till the second reading if you needed more information and you could carve it out at that point but at least we're moving as quickly as we can with with something so so in essence things could happen tangentially you know um staff could be working on data collection at the same time um if you did have two ordinances and I'm not saying what I'm just procedurally saying you do have to do an economic uh impact statement for uh every ordinance so if you had two different ordinance you have to do that not saying that's a big deal advertisement is also another cost you'd have to advert read vertise it as a second ordinance um but I'd certainly understand if if it got to a first hearing and you felt like there wasn't enough empirical data to um support that operational part um what you call administrative um management part of the beach then it can be uh SE severed off of that and we'll run with it as uh commissioner Marriott had suggested just run with that on a different timeline but at least get forward get going on the first uh hearing as the manager stated we could do that yeah I mean our our common goal is to be able to enforce as soon as possible I think that was your intentions I don't think it changes staff time when I say staff um so we've already done a first reading and let me just remind you of that last March we have not we it was on the agenda to talk about and it got pushed off so this is over a year where we've had now multiple workshops to relook at it because of the change of the commission and the beach stewardships so um we absolutely can do that I guess um I would like we're willing to do it doesn't change staff time and we're not dropping off any portion of any part of what we've been discussing over the years so I I don't think that's at all staff's intention nor Matthew's intention nor commissioner Marriott's intention it's to try to accomplish something that we have been working on and we have discussed in multiple multiple multiple workshops and I feel like there are certain items in this that have been agreed upon over all these workshops so it was taking out the ones that are still in question I think that's it we can do it either way if the timing is not going to change for what the information that you guys need from that March meeting is it considered a first reading I I don't think we actually I think it was it was uh deferred basically okay it was never read it was never heard it was just an agenda so and this is a new probably a new new language new title things like that so I don't think it was considered a first reading although it was on the agenda but it was deferred okay Andrew does the business impact statement have to be done prior to the first reading or just prior to passage of an that's a great question um I I would think that it has to be I'm going to guess I hate doing this lawyer shouldn't do it but I would have it for the first reading I mean I wouldn't have it for the second I mean I'll check on it but I would I would I would think that logically you would want it for the first reading because it's sh she's shaking her head no no way it's by adoption it's by the time of adoption it's seven to 10 days before you adopt it that's what I get for guessing yeah so what we do here at the city is they fil they staff whomever puts it together prepares it I put it on the city's website there's a specific page dedicated to it along with the ad that goes in the newspaper so it's advertised in advance of the publication of the agenda but it's always it's also attached to the agenda as well it has to be done 7 to 10 days prior to the adoption just like your advertisement saved Again by the city clerk right thank you why we keep her around exactly you could have deferred never guessed at anything so from what I'm hearing from the tool that you call it our tool this is in our toolbx it would still have the same effect um and we can use it in the future to pull it out if we see fit right or or I don't say pull I shouldn't say pull it out I do not want to remove it obviously but to to um to wait for further information on on it so yeah and if it's information that's necessary for the for the city to implement it then I think that that's that's prudent I don't know I don't know enough about like what the information is lacking if it that's something that's but at the end of the day it's got it's got to be an enforceable ordinance and so if it's data and information that's necessary to do that then I would think that that's prudent I don't know enough about it so at that first hearing if we if it's not something that can be enforced that would be brought to us to know that maybe we should move that section out right because you said it has to be enforcable so if not knowing what's working with the density of the Cabanas and the setbacks and so forth and we can't enforce it the best course would be to chunk that out right could be could be Poss depending okay as a point of order can I speak as a beach Stewart because the beach Stewarts were not invited to this even though it was on the agenda I had the notice but the commission still decides if you're making a decision tonight on something then the public yeah I think we're having a discussion and um I think you have a meeting coming up at which point you could make recommendations to the have a discussion with the other Commissioners bring up whichever points you would like and then if your recommendation is one way or the other that can certainly pass on to the commission because as we're still 30 45 days out from first reading anyway well that's what I was looking to do is see we change the agenda and not just be the tur next week I mean that is between you and the city clerk to add add to the agenda discuss on yeah well with I mean with the knowledge that we can that we can potentially move forward sooner with a first reading and and and address that as we go I'm I'm fine with that I I just didn't want to have something you know hold us up and and you know have months and and more you know and then we're going to have elections in August and then somebody's going to say oh there's new Commissioners we should have another Workshop you know so I I uh I'm I'm I'm comfortable with that if that's an option where we can bring the first reading to the commission sooner perhaps than we were thinking might have been otherwise and and continue to move forward so so you would have first reading you would have the benefit of hearing from the public and others and if you all chose that hey we need to take some of this stuff out um based on that too uh it's a good way to shine a light on something but yeah it kind of achieves both uh you're you're not like giving up any ability to change that thank you you're welcome all right next we have item 6 c a discussion on the freebie and [Music] um so we've had multiple discussions at the commission on the service that the freebie provides um in particular with as in reference to tipping um so one of the things that I can say I've personally observed and I've had residents bring to my attention is the um the increased well some of the drivers have big tip chars some of them have smaller tip JS um but what was most um and again I'm really not against it you know it's I think if it's not obnoxious and obtrusive even though when we look back at our contract our contract specifically States and I asked our city manager to review the contract just for clarification but we did this last year in September or October where we reviewed the language of the contract and we came to the conclusion that yes um you know they're not supposed to be asking for tips at all uh and if it had been just a tip charge I probably would have have said you know what it's not you know if they're not you know actively soliciting I mean putting a tip CH this big might be considered actively soliciting tips um but I've had reports from from several residents who have um after they took a ride with the freebie and did not tip that their ratings are going down uh and these are individuals that don't drink don't frequent bars they're not in a position where they would have been obnoxious or inebriated or anything else um so I think it's it's prudent that we go back and relook at that and have a conversation with our vendor uh about you know what practices they allow and don't allow with their employees especially since we have a contract that states what they're supposed to be doing can you explain what what you mean by rating so when you when you take a ride with the free just like you would with Uber oryt you can re you can leave a five is from one to five star rating for the driver and then this driver does the same thing for you now again I just saw this past weekend somebody got a one star rating right taking a ride from one hotel to a restaurant and back because they well the assumption is because they didn't tip because really there wasn't wasn't anything else and so what happens is the drivers look at your rating and then they determine what whether they want to pick you up or not based on your rating right and it almost appears like there is a unspoken understanding where non- tippers get a low rating which signals to the other drivers hey these individuals here don't pick them up because they have low ratings I mean that's that's one of the possibilities that could be one of the consequences of it um again I think it's something that the vendor needs to look into I think it's Aver ation we need to have with the vendor um and you know why we're allowing a practice that is specifically prohibited by the contract mayor I could tell you right now that um you know having a jar that says tip on it is the same thing is asking for a tip sure that that's my opinion I mean it it's it puts people in a position where if they don't tip they feel like yeah they're not and if what you're saying is true that's defeating the purpose of the freebie um because they shouldn't be doing that you know there are lots of companies like Publix and other places that actually have their employees say we cannot accept tips or something so unless we want to change the contract and we can where it says we don't accept tips in their freebies you know maybe they should stop the practice of putting jars out yeah I remember hearing conversations here that yeah jar is okay as long as they don't ask or say you got to do it or have a side that says you got to give us a tip but uh you know the contract is very specific it says the service should be free to users and no tips will be accepted I mean that's the language the contract is is there a I mean I I understand you know like on Uber and that sort of thing why the drivers would want to be able to rate the passengers and decide who they pick up but when when the city is paying for the service I I feel like I feel like that part shouldn't even be allowed you know like the the driver shouldn't be able to decide who they do and don't want to pick up you know I mean that that that seems to completely defeat the purpose of of what we're trying to do with that service yeah could we find out about that I mean just pulled up my app just to see if I'm rate it but I didn't I didn't know that that existed you can't you can't see your own rating I looked into that as well so the drivers can see your rating you so I know on Uber for example you can log into your profile you can see what your rating is um you cannot do that with the freebie um I know I've talked about I brought it up to staff about this the tippingsparse tip but can we and kind of I heard mayor kind of insinuate you know it's not we don't want to give something to someone who's doing really great right regardless if we said no tipping if I'm writing and I know there's no tipping and they still say no tipping allowed I could be very grateful for someone helping me right and I'm okay with with doing that myself but could we strongly suggest and ask that there is a sign placed on all the Ubers it says no tipping um or even I'm sorry Uber I got the Uber in my mind freebies right or um like Andrew like you suggested you know like there's and probably not another lapel because they're not going to see it but just right on by the Dashboard or by the side and now obviously it's going to be a little bit different because we have um some of the new Teslas out there already um you know can can we assure that they do this we can certainly suggest that to them but I think it if we want to enforce the contract which we should you know we put it back on them to make sure their employees understand that uh that they can't accept and they probably be putting a sign would certainly help that you know help them enforce or take care of their own employees that way we certainly suggest that is there anything in the contract that that would allow them or disallow them from like deciding in who they pick up or who they don't pick up or I mean is that is that something that we should be thinking about putting in a contract if we renew it or amend it or change it I don't know I can take a look at that but I don't know right off the top of my head I mean we can have language in there it says they're not allowed to have any type of discrimination you know algorithms or anything like that where they can decide that I mean I can come up with easy enough to put into that yeah just remove the rating system yeah yeah any of that I got another comment on that that commissioner res Nikki alluded to I thought where we left off with them that something was coming back to us to vote on the cars MH and not allowing Teslas but I've seen a Tesla out there and I don't know if it's giving people rides or it's just an employee yeah so it is I was confused about that yeah part yeah they also have a minivan now and all those are parked at the Webster Center they're taking up the parking lot now instead of that little gravel fencing area they're supposed to be using now the minent is for disability so that one I know I think that one's been around yeah that one's been around specifically yeah but the Tesla my understanding with the last meeting we had was they were going to come back to us and we were going to talk about it more about maybe going all Teslas or half Teslas or no Teslas I rode one yeah yep uh Kristen the community development director and I met with them a few days after that meeting um requested specific information that you all were asking during that and we're still waiting for them to provide us the information so I can get it on the agenda but I wasn't going to put it on an agenda until I got the information and I do write it frequently enough to um and I don't tip so I guess they're still picking me up they don't know I'm a commissioner either so they're still picking me up um but the the Teslas were pretty immediate after that meeting just so you all know because I I was like didn't we just have a meeting and here I am writing a Tesla now writing it though they did explain to me it's because they were down Vehicles so there there was an explanation so it's either they give us the service or you know we don't and we somehow get reimbursed for the time that the service is not available so it's you know what three minute comment do you want to hear um on the podium you know we not we don't have the service or I'm writing a Tesla um so it's kind of hard you know not to excuse it by any means because I was just as shock that's why I mentioned it I guess the positive is we can try them out see how we like them well well back to the the original um complaint that I think we all share is yeah I think if the contract says no tipping there should not be a tip jar out there period that that definitely sets up discrimination okay thank you uh next we have discussion item five sorry 6D 8th Avenue parking yeah thank you uh and mayor you brought this up at our last commission meeting so uh both Jennifer and I and have had several meetings with some of the merchants on 8th Avenue and and they share and it's not all the merchants it's a couple of them that own the restaurants and some other establishments and uh with the impact of the seaw wall we talked about this already and then the beach free nourishment they've lost a lot of parking spots for example um Mother's Day one of the restaurants had 60 reservations they only got 13 cuz people couldn't find a place to park they just there was nowhere to park so the issue is the beach goers have figured out that 8th Avenue is basically free parking so they'll park there all day long even though there's a sign that says 3 hours of course they all know to ignore that and they get free parking so what I came out of that with was you're going to have to reach out to the other merchants and kind of come up with a unified front because I don't think we can recommend the a fix for two or three businesses everybody kind of has to be in agreement on what we do so one of the options is uh turn 8th Avenue back into paid parking uh or I shouldn't say back put it into paid parking the other one was maybe uh adjust the software if this is possible and I think it' be pretty easy fix so that when somebody parks on 8th or 9th and they get there three hours that's all they get if if they try to go back in and you know use their app to renew that three they don't get it and then the ticket enforcement guys would come along so um I just wanted to bring that up for everybody's awareness I don't think we're at the point yet where there's consensus um on what to do they were also thinking about some way to enforce uh like somebody out there with a you know a stand that says hey this is business only on on the weekends you can't come through here or please don't come through here unless you are going to a business um that one makes me a little more uh nervous because if we do that because they were mentioning the city paying for it if we do that obviously then we have to take into consideration Corey Avenue Upland Beach all the other businesses so I think that could open up a can of worms so um some great ideas I just think U the next step is they need to coordinate with the rest of the establishments on eth and kind of come at us with a united front and a suggestion um so in the meantime if we could maybe take a look at is there a way to change the software um so folks can't repetitively Park in the business spots and then what would be involved with turning 8th Avenue um so just bring that up for discussion if anybody's interested so I think with the the park mobile app is that the one that we use Wayne yes okay so I know with the park mobile app in downtown they have different zones and different restrictions for the different zones so in some zones you can it's paid parking two hours but you cannot extend beyond two hours some of them you can um it would necessitate that we create a zone for 8th Avenue for example where you could park for you still have to register to park I'm just thinking through this right where you have a 2hour max parking time if you're not registered to park you get a ticket if you register the park it's free up to 2 hours without the ability to extend I don't know if that's I mean I know that's possible within the app I'm not sure if that's the route we want to go but that might be another solution yeah where you can you know it doesn't cost anything and it doesn't because I know the businesses have mentioned they have some challenges with the paid parking especially on the weekends or holidays when it's 25 for the whole day do we have disc on on eth like the we don't use those the hockey pucks no bricks of course this has been a issue that's gone on for years in years there's been a lot of ideas a lot of things that have been tried but I think the point is to see if there's any new ideas as a group down there that they may have to uh that that we haven't tried or maybe we didn't do a good enough job on before uh you know the the problem with one of the solutions of putting someone there this is only for these are public streets we can't restrict who goes up and down the streets we can we can do something about the parking but we you know that's several issues there but uh yeah I think you're right that it needs to be a unified idea because I know I've talked with some of them too and different ones have different ideas yeah absolutely okay well anyway just wanted to bring that up thank you thank you sir you also have item 6E yeah thank you so um the monor school uh has been approaching the staff for quite some time um ever since the dog park uh got put back in um they were asking if there was a way to put a kid the kids playground got removed um so they were asking is there a way where we could put in another small playground in Hurley Park they have one at the mono school but they want a little bit bigger ger facility or they want a bigger facility put in Hurley Park than their little tiny ones they have at the the Monas school um the conversation was that they would and the price tag was somewhere around $85,000 there were two different options U the conversation was that they had enough people through monor and through Pastor B Community Church that they would um donate 50,000 excuse me not 50,000 half of the cost um as a two different ways to do it one was to collaborate in the park and then I think after talking with legal we decided the best way would be a donation that is strictly um geared toward a kids park excuse me a kids playground in Hurley Park so that seems to be the way forward um so when they first sent the petition and I got it um I kind of bed because it was first name last name initial only and then like 33707 or 3376 I couldn't decipher who it was I had no way of telling if it was you know folks from some sign up list or it was folks that were really in my neighborhood our neighborhood in District 4 um so after some give and take they got back and I got a a plethora of emails from actual folks that I could recognize the name their address where they live you know do you have kids that type of thing so uh now that we excuse me after a lot of miscommunication pardon me now that we finally I finally got those um I'm good with it uh from my perspective however uh or I'm sorry this would be something I'm recommending for the budget talks of course it's up to the the pleasure of the commission to see if this is something when we get to that point that they agree with um you know putting that a small playground back in so that's that's kind of where we're at we would we have to go through the regular procurement channels if we're using yeah yes sir okay I think it's a great idea I think it's it's been something that's been brought up for the last two years I think it's something we should take action on I think it'd be great if we can um ask the city staff to put together a proposal and we start looking into that and yeah obviously the The Bu the budget issue and then the the split on the cost would have to come back to you all but we can start working on that yes sir great and there is an interest excuse me an issue of a natural gas line that kind of goes right through that area so this that's where the experts are going to have to weigh in and go here's where we can put it here's where it's safe to put it or whatever so thank you great thank you one more thing on that there was a playground there before yeah with the Don Park is Right mhm thanks all right um next we have staff reports and S clerk thank you mayor I just wanted to remind the public that voting is in August there are links on our City website under the election page um linking to the city or I'm sorry penel County s soe in regard to check and see if you are signed up to have a mail ballot if you're not signed up for how to get a mail ballot work through the s soe's website to sign up to get a mail and ballot so that you can participate in the August election that information is standard on the the city's website under the election page it's always there and the penel County Supervisor of election page is pretty easy to navigate I have to do it often so it's it's pretty user friendly or you can give me a call and I'll walk you through it and you have to register each year yes you do have to sign up again for a mail ballot every time you want one for any election well one if there's two elections that year then you would just sign up one time but yes I could be wrong but I think it said 8 July was the deadline for the mail in this for requesting one um I might be wrong there I have the schedule I don't know off the top of my head it's very odd because the mailing has to by Statute has to be so many days and I know that it's residential is in July however on my schedule I remember typing in like seven days before the election is the last date of request and mail ballot which I thought was really odd because they mail it out in July but that's what their website saying I had to double check for one of the candidates that qualified so yeah but all that information is on the s soe's website thank you city manager no City attorney uh two things um real quickly I'm pleased to introduce you to Sharon Lindner she's a uh lawyer in our firm she's been there for four years uh with us she's been extremely involved with City business uh on ordinances uh easements contracts you name it all the requests for Legal Services in the background so I thought this would be a good opportunity to bring her up here here and let her um meet everybody that she's been talking to on the phone and in emails and so forth and so on and to get a feeling of the the meetings and so forth so um this is Sharon she's a very good lawyer and we're happy to have her in our firm and um she's very familiar with the city I took her around on a tour and she was like oh I know that I know that I know because she's dealt with all these issues but she hasn't been here uh in person so I'm trying to get her more acquainted with personally with the city and with the person City personnel um so thanks for being here Sharon uh secondly um I know that there have been some some snfo with the emails so some of you may not have received U my email last night and also there was an email that went out from the Florida Liga cities regarding the form six litigation um there was a 33-page order that was issued by the southern district federal or us Court um basically saying to the commission on ethics that they cannot enforce uh that Senate bill that uh required the full disclosure it's a um freedom of speech issue I won't get into all the legalities of it the Florida Le of City's uh email has a link on it that will bring up the actual order and then it's got a letter that was issued by the Commission on ethics and I I provided it to Amber today with different instructions I don't know where you all are with your filings um but apparently the commission is now uh having people do the filings F form one instead of form six um I don't know if that's going to change because I wasn't really in the order but um they're trying to fix their website uh so that you know the your directed to the right form in other words so look for that email um from the Florida League of cities it's got a good explanation on it or you can talk to Amber uh about it it it is I I found the commission on ethics letter a little confusing um but uh that's normal I mean the order came out yesterday so and that's it for me thank you district four oh gosh I've talked enough tonight just um my probably my final me meet and greet tomorrow evening at 5:00 P p.m. at Hurley park for any uh District Four residents that's all I have thank you District 3 um I just wanted to mention I did attend the Florida League of cities um training that was held um Friday well gone since Thursday so Thursday to Sunday and it was long I wake up at 7 in the morning was there till 5:30 but it was a wealth of information um it was all day we worked through lunch you didn't leave but um I learned a lot and I'm trying to figure out how to disseminate it some of the stuff to all of you all here because they they do give a lot of great information um for newly elected but but I think just overall um and they did briefly talk about form six they didn't tell us about that order but but I'll read on that um but there was just I mean I have so many notes and so many pages things to ask you know Andrew and and I brought up some to um the city manager as well for Wayne um but it but it is really worth it I know there's I think another one coming in August I think it was I don't want to say the exact date and of course this is for the commission I know there's something coming out for the conference but I haven't been able to see my email so I'll wait for that but I but I highly recommend it so thank you District Two yeah um nothing District specific just was going to say start thinking about and planning for hurricanes season and let's hope for the best thank you district one uh just that uh um the Sunday Morning Market on Corey is still happening and uh even though it's uh was pretty hot this past Sunday there was a bunch of people there it's still a lot of great vendors and I'd encourage everybody to go check it out thank you um I know often times in in in government that this this was always one of my complaints before I came into office was you know there's not enough communication from from the city about some of the things going on and um and so I'm I'm actually just want to say how impressed I am with our new public information officer um it's the volume of information is coming out and it's not a matter of quantity while there is actually quite a lot of quantity and just if you look at the you know the fire department you look at the library you look at the city's you know social media page there's constantly information but it's actually quality information um and so as part of that you know ongoing Outreach to make sure that we increase our communication to Residents you know what what are we actually doing like they're not watching every single commission meeting not sitting here for four hours um so as part of that um one of the things we discuss is in addition to doing the district Town Hall meetings is also doing a Citywide mayor's Town Hall um and so the first one will be two weeks from tomorrow on June 2 6 yes um right here in in Chambers it'll just be a informal session where we're going to talk about some of the things that we've done this year where we are you know where we going um but it's going to be more Citywide rather than districtwide just as a means of improving our communication with our residents and our constituents with that um I think probably at six o'cl but we'll it'll be it'll be posted on our social media Mark's been excellent about that I me I just I I can't say the amount of good things I've heard from residents about the improved you know quality of our communication um so that's a good thing unless there's anything else with that we are adjourned thank you everyone