November 18th meeting of the of the uh of the uh parks and recreation committee. Uh would everybody please rise and stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. >> All right. It's been a while since I've done this. Okay. Hey, Jen. Jenny, I think it's roll call. >> It is correctly. All right.
>> Member Dykins. >> Uh, yes. >> Okay. Um, Vice Chair Sinatra >> here. >> Member Gordon >> here. >> Chair Weise >> here. We have a quorum. >> All right. Um, so I guess the next thing is uh approval of the agenda. Correct, Jenny?
>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, the first item is the uh meetings from last week. Correct. >> Are there any changes? >> Any changes? >> So, we just need a motion. >> Make a motion to approve the minutes
from last meeting. >> I'll do it. >> Motion. >> Second. >> I'll second. A motion moves. >> All in favor? >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> All right. Okay. All right. Um
any uh audience comments? Guess we don't have any audience out there. That's pretty That's pretty easy. Okay. And I guess with that we move to Mandy's presentation. >> I think we're going to start um today with Eileen Torres. She's with our public services department. and she's
the public properties um operations manager and she's going to give the presentation on the parks and facilities updates. >> Good morning everyone. >> Morning. >> Morning. >> I'm Eileen Torres, operations manager for the public properties division. I
took over parks in July. Um and I wanted to go over some of the projects uh maintenance work orders and posttorm updates with you. In the presentation, it shows um some s significant projects that we've completed. Um one of them being the
mulch installation of all the dog parks. Um we finished all of them except for the big uh Vina Delmare dog park. We needed um a contractor to uh bring in the mulch for us in order for us to finish that project. And so we actually secured a new contractor and we're
hoping to get that done by the end of December. I'm sorry. I have a question about that. >> Sure. >> I live on Vina. Very familiar with that dog park bark. Are they taking out because I don't know where the mishap came from. I think they ordered bark and
not mulch. If you go there and look, the dogs won't go in there. And it's big sticks. It's not like and the issue becomes that dog park's full of dog waste because people don't pay attention and then they can't find it and it
blends in with the mulch. So, I don't know what they're bringing, but it's been a big concern in the neighborhood that it's more like bark. It's not really mulch. Okay, we can look into that with the new contractor. That's not a problem. Um,
the Egan concession and restroom remodels have been completed. Um, we took that in house to kind of stay within budget. The >> question. >> Sure. >> We'll do this as we go. >> Okay. >> I went actually over to Egan and saw the
uh work that was done in the restrooms. It's done very nicely. >> Um, but one of the things I noticed when I first looked at Egan when I got appointed to uh the committee was that the uh fascia from the roof surrounding the uh building, you know what I'm talking about? >> Yes. That's our next project.
>> Rotted and unpainted. >> Yes. It's the next project. >> Yes, we have that on our project list to do in house. >> Glad to hear it. >> Y um for the Egan big field project, um we have that scheduled for the end of the year. We originally went out to bid, but
it came out three times more than what we budgeted. So, we decided to take that in-house. So, the completion date will be at the end of December. That's our goal. Um the new installation of Hurley Park playground was completed and we had the
ribbon cutting October 14th. So here you'll see our yearly maintenance schedule. We try and keep that schedule. Um it ensures that major projects are planned with clear timelines, adequate crew resources are
allocated for each task and smaller ongoing projects continue to receive proper attention preventing neglect. Um this is our proactive uh approach to maintain the health, safety and aesthetics appeal of the our parks and facilities.
I also put in the weekly maintenance. Um, our weekly maintenance landscaping schedule helps to reiterate our goal to ensure that all areas remain clean, healthy, and visually appealing. It also allows us to address issues promptly and keep us up with seasonal growth
patterns. And while we follow this uh weekly pattern, we do make adjustments due to weather conditions or during slower growth periods to allow staff to focus resources where they're needed most. I know in the last meeting you wanted to see work orders. So since July uh we
received 16 C clicks fixed work orders related to park maintenance uh in which 13 have been completed and the remaining items include Egan Park big field and the Veno Delmare uh playground fence which are expected to be completed by the end of the year.
Um we have completed four or five related ccliff fix work tree related cclick fix work orders and we've completed all of them except for the venina tennis courts. We this week are planning to trim back the cypress oak away from the tennis courts
and then posttorm updates. Um we have listed for you some of the the accomplish accomplishments that we have done. There is a typo here about Egan Park. Um it said uh we had the project tenative completion for December 8th.
It's updated to the end of December, the end of the year. Um, we did get an update this morning that the top soil will be delivered December 1st and the trencher will be delivered December 2nd and then we will begin. Um, update to Sunset and Fisherman Park. The city has
engaged in advanced engineering design to provide a task assessment assignment proposal for engineering design services for Sunset Park and Fisherman Park Rehabilitation. Uh this project is budgeted for fiscal year 2026 and the city is coordinating with FEMA for
public assistance and its pending funding obligation. Engineering design and permitting will will need to be completed before construction. Any questions? >> No. >> Yes. >> Sounds good.
>> All right. Um so um first question is who is in charge of oversight and supervision of the people who are actually doing the work? Is it their immediate supervisor? How how do we know
the work is getting done as it's ordered? >> So we have a crew chief. I have two crew chiefs that oversee uh the team. And basically when I have a work order, I give that work order to the crew chief. The crew chief sets a schedule and then
I talk with the crew chief on that schedule and then if they cannot make the the uh timeline that was projected, then they come to me and say we need a little bit more time or we these are the problems that we have encountered and then we uh change up the schedule to fix
what we need to do in order to get that project done. >> Okay. So, um I wanted to talk about um the U McKenna Park >> uh trees. They were recently out there removing some shrubbery. There are three
tall dead trees that died uh after the hurricane >> and they're on the park property, but they apparently weren't included. Do you know if that is something that is uh was part of the project? Is the forest We have a forester on staff,
don't we? >> We have an arborist. Correct. >> Arborist. Yes. Close. Is that was that something that went through him? Did he make the decisions over there? >> The three dead fus trees that were next to the uh dog park?
>> No, not that one. The ones that border the north edge with the shrimpies and Corinino's retail center. That was re that was the recent work that was done removing fas trees and
shruby. There were three tall trees that were on >> Gulf Boulevard at 90 whatever that avenue is. Uh so I I've been watching that and wondering, you know, when the city would take action on that. I don't even know if it's on the radar, but I
thought it was interesting that they were working on some small shrubbery down low but hadn't paid attention to the clearly dead trees. >> I'll look into that and then I'll get back to everyone. One of the questions that I asked in my first meeting here was where's the
report of the survey of the parks after the post hurricane? And I I I never saw one. I'm not sure there was one. So, >> okay, >> that's okay. But, um it's it's something that probably should be in a future
plan. But uh for the uh the trees and uh issues like that, I would have thought that uh arborist would be out there looking at things like that and saying we need to take care of that. >> Okay. >> I'm not sure how those work orders were
being done. So, um, also are you, uh, the the shuffleboard court building at Pasigril? >> I first learned it was going to be demolished when I saw that it was going out for bids for demolition, right?
>> And I I had asked questions about what's going on with that and really couldn't get an answer. And so, I guess that was the answer. Who's making th those decisions? Are those being done in staff level? Is that being done by the commission? >> Um, it would be done by commission. Um,
I know that recently we received approval from FEMA to have the building demol uh demolished. So, the next steps would be bringing that to commission for final approval. >> Is that FEMA? Is is that still a
negotiation or is that a completed item? The what FEMA is paying for and what they're not? >> I don't have that information. Sorry. >> Um, at the Ursio's park um where they put the new sign in. I think it was a new bench or something, right? Uh, I was at
Commissioner Maldonado's meeting uh a few months ago where someone was raising a really big stink about that park and I think it was primarily about the dock, the fishing pier >> or if you want to call it that and uh
it's it's still sitting there in disrepair. I don't know whether that's on the list. Do you know? >> I don't have that answer but I can get that information to you. >> Okay. Well, you know, my thought on that is unless it's required by a deed of gift to maintain that, there's a really good one like 50 yards away that people
are using, so demolition would probably be more appropriate. But yeah, I was just curious. And as for uh I'm a big fan of signage and so my thought would be on signage to um put a sign on there. Here's what we're doing with this um or
you know check in with us or a QR code or or something because it it just appears that we're not doing anything. And that would be one of my thoughts on how to handle that. Okay. >> Okay. That's all I have.
>> Anyone else? Okay, >> thanks Eileen. >> Okay, so um I guess really if there's no other questions on the parks aspects, I have a couple of things on the recreation side to kind of go over with you all today and get some of your input. Um as you know at our last
meeting we spoke about a fee study and how we we've started working towards um uh revising our fees and taking a look at them. And today I have a few more questions that I kind of want to get clarification from the advisory committee u with as far as how do we
want to proceed in this fee study. So they've given us some preliminary information that I haven't shared with you. Um what I would like to do is schedule a meeting in January once I have your feedback from today's meeting so that we can kind of go over everything together before we do any kind of presentation to commission. So,
let me go through this presentation pretty quickly here today. But, um, as I mentioned, your input mattered. So, the city is conducting a fee study to review the current pricing for recreation programs, facilities, and rentals. Um,
we are comparing these fees to neighboring municipalities as well as market rates. The uh goal of this is to establish consistent transparent cost recovery goals and support equitable access and long-term financial sustainability. Uh the committee's input
will help shape recommendations to city commission and inform policy direction on fees and subsidies. So we really are looking for your input today as far as how we want to proceed with this process. Um so what values should drive our fee structure? How will fee changes
impact our residents? So, these are some of the things that we'd kind of liked you all to think about. Um, we can go through and and get some feedback today. Um, but then like I said, once we get the fee study results from Rafelis, we'll go ahead and we'll do a more indepth presentation with you and we can
always change our thoughts at that point. So, um, today I'd kind of like your input on what principles should guide how we set our fees. I mean, should it be based on affordability, fairness, cost recovery, access for all? Um, how do you how do you think we
should balance taxpayer support versus user fees? How do you think the public perceives our current fees? And are there specific groups we should protect or prioritize? What impacts could higher or lower fees have on participation? So, I'll give you a minute if anybody has any comments on
anything on that slide. Um, any feedback. I'm sure that you've all kind of looked at our budgets and seen what our revenue and our expenses are. And I know cost recovery is one of our major um our goals for the year to to try to recoup back some of what we're we're
putting out. So what are your thoughts on our guiding philosophy and overall impact of this fee study? >> Manny, has there been any study in terms of these questions are kind of I think it's difficult for me to make the decision. Has there been any studies regarding what the public the residents
are asking or thinking about these questions? >> We haven't done any outreach to the public as of yet. I think that's going to be part of it once we get kind of your input and we can kind of see where we can go. Now, I can give you a little background of what traditionally we're looking for in the in recreation cost
recovery. So, we have these different tiers. So, tier one is kind of a community benefit. Um that's your parks, your playgrounds, your trails, your open spaces. That's normally uh taxf funded, primarily tax funded 100%. Tier 2 is a
mixed benefit. So, you've got sport leagues, uh, community classes, special events, and camps. Those are the recommended cost recovery at about 70%. And then your tier three is your individual benefits. So, facility rentals, anything that is just for your benefit. So, facility rentals, adult
leagues, private lessons, those are recommended at a cost recovery target of 100%. >> So, right now, um, we're kind of operating at a very low cost recovery. um were were heavy uh heavily funded by
our taxpayers. Um so that's the point of going through this whole study. So really, you know, what we're just kind of looking for is any impacts that you think that may, you know, we want to kind of identify any impacts to the
public that you think could be an issue coming moving forward. So if we were to raise these to get to a 100% cost recovery in three to five years, you know, what are the impacts? the impacts to recreation could be we you see less participation uh people decide to you know go somewhere else to go to a
fitness room once we get that reopened um those kind of things you know so I mean >> that's another topic right >> yeah that's that's another topic but basically you know we're just trying to get a little bit of input and like I said this is kind of thinking points for when I do the full presentation with you
in January where you can see the actual numbers >> so what I'm kind of looking for is for you all to go out into the public and do a little bit of research for us as well. Um, talk to your neighbors, talk to the people that do use our facilities and our programs and our activities and get
their input so that when we do bring the projected increases or decrease decreases based on categories to you, you have a little bit of input from your neighbors. Um, we're going to try to do the same thing with the people that currently use our programs at the recreation center and at the aquatic
center. we're going to reach out to our classes and kind of do a study on, you know, what do they think is a fair rate for what they're they're being charged right now. >> So, these are not questions that you need to answer today. These are just moving forward in January when we do the
presentation with the fee study kind of where we want to go with this. >> So, the conundrum, at least from my perspective, is you've got uh everybody's kind of tired of taxes going up. people's budgets are a little bit uh out of alignment. And then you got the I guess there's a pretty big number that
the city owes >> with infrastructure. $200 million is the number I keep hearing, right? Has the committee the commission have they stated anything regarding how these fees need to be put back into balance to help
not add and keep offset some of this costs coming up in the next uh 10 years? >> We haven't brought the fee study to the commission yet. they are aware that we're uh conducting a a citywide fee study. Um so at some point they are going to have input as to how they want to see it too. What we're what I'm
asking for this committee is to kind of give our recommendations on the recreation side of what we think is appropriate. >> Can we get a copy of the current fees that are being you know u
brought forth to the public you know so that we have the education of what do you think this should cost? Sure. >> What are they charging now? You know, I don't think we all as a committee know. Yeah, >> sure. I think definitely for our January meeting that will have a copy of the
existing fees. The what we'll present to you will be the existing fees, the recommendation from R refellus and then for our community uh a committee input. We'll take that information and then we'll bring that information to commission for what their recommendation
is overall. So the big thing is you mentioned right at the beginning was doing a study with other municipalities in the area. >> They've researched other municipalities through this fee study. >> Their fee structure is what their cost structure is as well because that's a big piece of this also. Are we in alignment with what our costs are?
>> Yes. >> Okay. >> And then you have different tiers for individuals maybe on that lower end of the income spectrum that can't afford maybe an increase in how we affect that. So you know kids for example can still go swimming. >> Yeah. And some of that's going to be further along in this presentation. And so this is let me move on to our next
slide and that maybe some of this stuff will answer your question. So if we're moving on to our cost recovery expectations and affordability some of the things I'd like you all to think about um which activities should aim for higher cost recoveries are resident
non-resident rates and prime time differentials appropriate? Should we implement or expand scholarships or sliding scale programs? We do offer a scholarship program for our summer camp, but we don't offer our scholarship program for any other activities that we do right now. Um, and then are there
partnerships or sponsorships that could offset costs for participants? Right now, we work uh with Silver Sneakers and Renew Active. They're both through um insurance and we do offer um a member can come in with their Silver Sneakers card and take a fitness class at no cost
to them. And what they do is Silver Sneakers, we submit the report to them at the end of the month. silver sneakers and renew active reimburse us for the cost of that class for that participant. >> I didn't know I didn't know that. I didn't either. >> So, talk to your healthcare provider.
>> All right. Maybe maybe that's something we I don't know. Is that >> is that advertised somewhere on on the portal the city side or >> we have it on our website as far as you know a silver sneakers option? But we don't advertise that silver sneakers is a free program for people to participate
in these classes. They do it at multiple locations. You can do it at other gyms as well, not just a municipal um uh facility. But that's something we'll make a little note here too to to add that on. >> Okay. So, just to
move along here, these other um talking points. So once we do figure out the fee structure and how we want to move forward, how are we going to get support from the community and um you know advertise what we're doing. So how should we communicate fee adjustments to
ensure transparency and trust? Um how can you as committee members help gather community feedback or share information? What non-negotiables do you believe the city should maintain? And there are there any other additional considerations for staff as the fee
study continues? Is there anything that would you would want to see brought forward in a fee study? Um outside of a cost recovery >> have we and I was looking at some of the uh I got that report from Mark. Thank
you for whoever starts sending those out every every week. Those are nice. And some it looks like some of the classes just don't have like Zumba for example. not to point them out. Doesn't have a lot of participation. >> I don't know if that adds a lot of overhead cost to discount even to maintain the notion of having a class like that, but
>> it's going to talk about maybe scaling everything down because there's a lot of classes. >> We do offer a lot. We we have a wide range of classes. Um most of our classes are anywhere between 30 and 45 minutes. So when this fee study what part of what the fee study is looking at is the
length of a class the cost of the class per participant um because we work on a 7030 split with the instructors the instructor retains 70% the uh city retains 30 of the cost um they're taking a look at that 30% and
basing it on what kind of electricity are we using how big is the room how many participants are using the the program so they're really doing a full evaluation of everything in this fee study. >> Mandy, are you are you in charge of the fee study? I mean, you some of you know what's going on. I mean, in terms of the analysis of the data and all that.
>> I've been involved with them with Ref Telis. We actually have an outside uh company that's doing this. Yeah. This Yeah, this is an outside contractor that's doing this for us and it, like I said, it's citywide, but right now they're really focused on recreation so that we can kind of get a grasp and if we need to change fees anywhere, we want
to be able to do that sooner than later. So normal course of their business this is what they do. >> This is what they do. Yeah. This is what they do. >> What data to look at, how to do the analysis, how to report the findings >> they do and how to tear everything and if there'sations >> all their recommendations. So we'll be bringing all that forward to you like I
said hopefully in a special meeting that we can all attend in January. Um we'll have all of that information. So that just kind of gets you started with thinking about fee studies and where we're trying to go with this. Um like I said, we're not trying to raise the rates on everything. Oh, no. >> Um, that's not our intent. Our intent is
to make the best use of what we have. >> Um, they're looking at rentals, they're looking at special events, they're looking at, um, everything that we do, our our programs, our pool, everything, open swim, open gym, all of that. And to see how competitive we are with the
surrounding cities. >> What What have we done in the past to to get this out to the public for their feedback in the past? We haven't done a fee study probably in 15 years. So, it's been a while. Our fees have been the same. Um, I know that when we've did it
maybe 15 years ago, it was really just kind of an in-house thing. I mean, we made recommendations based at on, you know, what we felt as staff at the time, uh, would be appropriate for fees. I don't know if we've ever really undertaken a full fee study like we are
right now. probably being really transparent this time around is going to be >> definitely. Yeah, we definitely want to make sure that we have involvement and we have you all involved and your input, you know, to to move forward with the process. But so that's kind of where
we're at with the fee study. Now, let me jump over here to our co-sponsorship agreements for special events. So, I'm looking for a little bit of input on these as well. Um, so we do do a lot of co-sponsorships throughout the city. Uh, the purpose and intent of this is what
should be the main goal of a city co-sponsorship. What criteria should determine if an event qualifies for co-sponsorship? So, we do already have a co-sponsorship application. And it does outline some of this, but we just want to make sure that we're on the right track as far as what
you feel should be in a co-sponsorship. what what should a co-sponsorship involve >> and what what are some examples just on that no what what are some of the examples of what we do today from the city co-sponsorship perspective >> so right now we have co-sponsorship agreements so when we brought this to
you last March I believe for the uh the list of events I outlined a list of events that were going to be co-sponsored for 2025 um that included some of the Corey Avenue events uh that included um >> talking special events Like I mean
obviously we got the the Sunday but also like Halloween or >> right any of these Halloween those type of activities that draw people down to >> Corey. Yes. So a lot it's heavy Corey Avenue. Um it's some pass a grill. It's 8th Avenue party under the lights.
That's a co-sponsorship that we do. Uh so there there's multiple events throughout the the city that we will co-sponsor with. And what it has traditionally involved in the past is a waving of the permit fee, the special event permit fee, if there's any EMS
costs associated with the event, and if there's any sheriff costs associated with the event. The event organizer is still responsible for a certificate of insurance, for the hold harmless agreement, to provide a site plan, and to run the actual event, to do the
logistics of the event. >> I have questions. Sure. >> Um how much of those fees and the um EMS uh requirements, how much of that is in
law, is in our insurance requirements, how how do we decide that someone putting on the trunk or treat uh Corey festival and the group down in um um has a street party have to pay the
same fees and have the same EMS and the same fire and sheriffs. Who decide where is that written down or is that something that we've just decided? >> They don't pay the same. So, it's based on the hours of the event and what's all required. So, if it's a larger event,
additional sheriff may be required. There may be some events that sheriff is not required at all. There may be some events that EMS is not required at all. So, it's event specific. And when I brought this to you in March, the spreadsheet that I had outlined what the costs were for each.
>> And I I I agree that the numbers are not identical, but I looked at the um uh the street festival >> uh in a neighborhood which is sort of a tight not through traffic or anything. And I thought, I cannot understand why they can't just put two barricades up
and call it a day. And we actually uh paid those fees. And and I I thought, who who came up with the idea that we have to have all these people there? The sheriff is 2 minutes away. The ambulance and fires 2 minutes away. And and we're
treating that the same way as we're treating the Corey Avenue Festival or the the uh Pastor Grill, the 8th Avenue Festival. And I didn't understand that. So my my thought is that we should
revisit the requirements and see how we can reduce the requirements. And I I look at the uh Corey Avenue Sunday Market as a model for what requirements should be for all these other events
because Corey Avenue Sunday Market has no sheriff's, fire, EMS, nothing. There's a single individual, I saw her, who puts the barricades out, controls traffic, sets everything up, takes it all down, and that goes off without a hitch every Sunday. And that's a major
operation. It's closing several streets. Uh, and I look at that and say, well, if they can do that here with some basic barricades and one person's in charge, why can't they do that everywhere? Uh and and I use as an example the uh I
went down to look at the 8th Avenue uh street party where they closed 8th Avenue. >> Uh and I counted 27 vendors. Uh there were um I think 12 uh businesses that had their doors open were taking
advantage. So one or two of the bars set up tables in the street. There was a band stand. The fire department had a booth where they were cooking as a fundraiser. Yet, there were private food vendors also on the street that paid to
be there. And we had uh we waved the fees for fire and EMS, they were there. So, the the equipment, the trucks that were on duty were there. So, there were a lot of people who were there on duty
in their vehicles. And yet there were all these fees and it didn't make any sense because all they needed was two barricades and one person in charge with a contact information. And so I look at that and think or is this just a holdover from how can we give extra
money to all of our people for overtime or were they even on overtime? And I I look at that and and wonder why can't they all be like the Corey Avenue Sunday Market. So that's my input there. >> Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. So, I
will speak to the um the fire personnel that you did see out there cooking. That's all off duty. That that's through their union. That's not anything that we're paying overtime for. That's through their union. Now, we do require EMS depending on the size of the event. If it's over 250 people, we do require
um EMS to be on site and that is included. U but as far as the individuals that were cooking at the venue, that's uh fire union and they're not on duty. >> Well, the fire truck was there. Yes, correct. >> I'm assuming some people with the firetruck were on duty.
>> The uh rescue uh there was a rescue fire rescue truck with the surfboards on it. They were there. I'm assuming they were on duty. >> The sheriff's vehicles I'm assuming they were on duty. >> Sheriff was Yeah, sheriff's sheriff's provided. Yep, you're correct. >> But we paid but we charged and waved and
paid a sheriff's fee. >> Correct. >> So I I And we're we're fairly small island. Mhm. >> Uh the um EMS and sheriff and um fire are minutes away from every site,
especially like at Corey Avenue. The fire department is right there. They can walk over. >> So I look at that and wonder why do we have all these fees? And I I think that it could be just a holdover from, you know, maybe it was unions or or
prior insurance requirements or something. But uh I I would look to see how we can reduce those uh rather than look about uh see about waving them. >> Yeah, we definitely can. That's kind of what we're talking about today. So, we kind of want your input. So, you know,
right now as it stands, 250 people at an event will trigger different things. So, it'll trigger EMS. It may or may not trigger the sheriff depending on the location and the type of event being held >> hours >> and the hours um and you know what else is happening on that day. So, there's a
there's a lot of different factors that go into it. And right now, as far as the sheriff, when we do ask for the requirement, they give us their recommendation based on uh their experience from past events, past similar events, past events in our city um as to what would be needed to control
that type of event because the last thing we would want to is for something to happen at one of our events and not have um EMS available or to have sheriff available. So, you know, there there does need to be a standard where we do have EMS and sheriff at events depending
on if it's a size. Now, is it 250 people or is it more? We don't know. But, um, that's kind of where we're going with that. But, I mean, to leave an event completely open, um, we do need to be able to protect the people that are in attendance at those events. though.
>> I don't want to force the poor s Sunday Corey Avenue market to have to get all of these u um um people out there and park a sheriff's car and an EMS and a firetruck and all of that there. I don't want to force them to do that, but they're more than
250 people. So, I asked the question, why can't they they be a model for how we do all of the others? And um you know I I I wonder who's coming up with that 250. Is that a state law? Where's that coming from? >> That's something we need to look into
too because I'm not sure if that's state law or how that goes. But um these are all good questions and we're going to take notes and and we'll bring it back down to you >> u to kind of get a little bit more information. But this is kind of the discussion that we want to have as far as these special events. You know, is it too restrictive? Is it not restrictive
enough? Do we need to add more? Uh do we need to take things away? So, I definitely made notes on your comments and we'll look into it a little bit more. >> Great. >> Um, so as far as these organizer responsibilities, where am I at now here? Few waiverss. Okay, so this is goes back to what type of support should
the city provide? Should we provide this fee waver? Should we provide staff support, facilities, the certificate of insurance? Uh, should there be limits or tiers of support based on event size or type, which is kind of what you were getting at, I believe. um what conditions should lead to a suspension
or termination of support and how should the recreation advisory advisory committee be involved review recommend or approve? So does anybody have any kind of thoughts on that as far as the process? I mean I know last year when we presented the co-sponsored requests I
mean we kind of just we went through them one by one but I think all of them were approved and we didn't really have a whole lot of questions. Is there anything else that you would like to see different in the process? Well, I I think that uh when you presented that to us, uh we were
blindsided and we punted. So, we basically said to the commission, "Do what you normally do, but we'll look into this." And that's what we're doing. >> So, I I do believe that we should have input. Somebody has to have input uh and and oversight. Uh and if it's us, that's
great. I don't know if the commission is into that. I don't know if the staff has any I don't mean to call you staff, but if the uh city um city city workers have any uh uh input or desire for change or anything, they may just say, "Let's just do it the way we always did
it." So, I do think we should have uh input on that. I think this is the place to do it. >> Agree. Is there anything else that you would like to see as far as um when I bring it back to you or whoever brings this back to you? Um as far as like the
documentation, is there something that was missing on there that you would like to see? Would you like to see a full event packet? What What do you What would you think that you need to see to be able to make an informed and educated decision based on level of support for
these co-sponsored events? First, I'd like to see um how many incidents or events occurred at any of these festivals that required
>> EMS, fire, sheriff. Um I think that should be something that should be in a post. There should probably be a post event report. Here's what happened. you know, we we had or we had no issues. Uh I I uh
also uh I would uh I would like to know if this is if it's a for-profit event, you know, are they, you know, are did they make tons of money? I mean, if uh if we're if
we're tossing money in to wave a fee for the public good, we're essentially paying admission for our residents to go to make money for these people, which seems odd. >> So, keep in mind, too, when we do approve them, most of the special event
co-sponsorship requests that we receive are from a nonprofit. >> And yes, I do know that. And setting up a nonprofit is a great way to do that. Um, so let's take a look at that nonprofit's financials. >> That'll peique some interest.
Is there anything else that you would like to see as far as when we present to you for uh recommendation? Is that it? Okay. All right. So, what do we think that the organizers responsibility should be? So,
should they provide um and cover the insurance, the hold harmless agreement, safety items? Should the organizers be required to report attendance outcomes or financial information afterward? I think that we've kind of already touched on that. We've said that yes, we would like to see a post event um analysis of
of all of this that's listed here. Anything additional? >> No, ma'am. I get I get so when somebody comes to us, what what what is their what is their perception regarding what they could receive? I mean, it's kind they're coming to us based on they're
looking for something, right? What >> what typically is that something? >> They want funding, right? But >> what's what's driving that? Just because we've done that in the past and now we're going to continue to do it in the future. >> I think so. And I think that, you know, on the recreation side, we like it when
people come in and they want to co-sponsor with us because it's another event and activity that we can bring to the city without having to do a lot of that extra, >> you know, planning, organizing, implementing. You know, it it's a benefit to the city as a whole. If
you're going to have a concert out here at Corey, you know, people can come out here and they can enjoy that time and it's very little staff time to have to put something like that together. And it's a great event. I mean they they have a they have a good turnout. It supports local business. It drives tourism to our region. I mean these are
all good things. So I mean we really want to move forward with it. I think the what they're looking for in exchange is help um you know to provide the barricades to provide cones. It could be to provide uh the waiver of some fees so that they're able to offset some of
their costs associated with putting on some of these events. I think that's the main driving force for people to come in and try to partner up with the city. >> Um um another another comment. I I think that if if we make it easier and less
expensive for people to put on events like this, we'll get more events. >> We could I mean it could be a possibility too. I mean the the waving of the fees isn't solely the driving force too. you know, we want to make sure that these events are safe for everybody so that people do want to come
back. If they come to an event and they don't feel safe at the event, that could be an issue, too. >> Yeah. >> So, we don't we really don't we really need to try to find a balance with what we're doing to make it maybe a little less restrictive, but not so open that there could be issues in the future
where people start getting hurt at these events. We we definitely don't want that. We want to make sure that it's a fun, safe, enjoyable time for everybody. um as part of that uh one of the um I think
the example of the 8th street uh or 8th Avenue uh party with the fire department was there with the trucks and the rescue trucks and tons of people were there because it's a great place to be. And one of the things that you'll notice about our sheriffs especially is they will spend time hanging out. Um and we
know where they hang out. I know where they have lunch. know where they talk to each other and that's a good thing. We want them to be out and around in the community. But if there is an event and that's a hangout place, they're going to be somewhere if they're not they're not cruising up and down the roads all the
time. So that's just that's a freebie. >> Um firetruck has to be somewhere. >> It could be there. >> Let them sell hot dogs. >> So there there's lots of freebies. >> So and the firetruck has a paramedic on board. So there's there's all kinds of
uh ways of of doing that to make it easier. >> I mean, people's perception these days of wanting to know in the back of their mind there's EMS and there's there's police presence, etc. is huge. It is. >> I mean, I do it myself and I, you know,
I'm sure everybody else does. They go down to the like a night at night of court. I mean, you know, hey, >> do we have the proper amount of in case something happens? Yeah, you want to see you definitely want to see their presence out there. I mean, it does it just makes for a better event if you have them out there and visible and
whether or not they're talking to the patrons or not or or the the guests and the visitors. I mean, that's great. We want them to interact. We want them to be involved with our community and we want to, you know, have a presence out there. So, that's that's the goal of this. So, um so how do we think that
co-sponsored events demonstrate community benefit? Should there be an evaluation process, which we've kind of already talked about? Um, and how do we ensure transparency in which groups receive co-sponsorship and why, which I think probably leads back to the post uh
event evaluation? And then how can we ensure that these partnerships strengthen and not strain our city resources? Are there any thoughts or comments on any of that? >> So, the typical strain would be obviously we got
set up approvals, etc. There's a certain formalities, you know, getting the sheriff to show up to an event of that. But is it just mostly is it is it a cost component? >> Primarily cost component. Um, and then it's also could be staff uh it could be
staff heavy depending on the type of event and what is needed as far as you know barricades or um if staff is going to be required to be there. be asked, for example, the city putting barricades up on the end of streets, for example. >> Um staff on site to assist with some of
these events too at some of these street closures. >> Uh that could be a strain. Uh but I mean really the strain is is monetary and then uh some staff related staff time.
>> So all right. So are there any questions on co-sponsorships? We'll bring something else back to you. We are looking to open up our co-sponsorship application um January 1 and it'll run through I believe
March or April. I'll have to check on that date and get back to you, but we do open it up to all of the nonprofits in the area, anybody that wants to co-sponsor with the city and we want to have a plan in place prior to that. So, your input's been valuable and we'll we'll um revise our special event
co-sponsorship application based on some of the feedback that we've received today. So, do we talk to our compadres and the other the other municipalities in terms of how they handle this stuff? I mean, we have all the way up to Dun Eden. I mean, they do phenomenal, right? Sarasota, I mean, everybody's got >> fairs going on and such.
>> Yeah, we actually we've reached out to all of them. Um, so Dun Eden has sent us back, you know, their packet of what they do for all of their events and how they planned it out a year in advance. They have a full calendar that shows exactly what's happening every weekend. um they not only require just the
co-sponsorships to pre pre-apply, but basically anybody that wants to do an event in the city to pre-apply. So, every city from here on up, I mean, everybody has some good and some bad that they do with their their events, and we're just trying to see what will work best for St. Pete Beach and, you
know, limit the cost for the sponsor as well as limit the cost for the city and then still provide a safe and great event. So, >> is that something that we could see what other cities are doing? You can you actually you can go to their websites and see too. I mean they they've got everything is on their city website. So
if you go to like the city of Duneden and put in special events, okay, >> their permit pulls up. Um you know most cities, most municipalities will have their event permit online. >> Terrific. >> So take a look at that. >> Okay, that ends my presentation today.
>> I have a uh comment on the um uh percentage of cost recovery. Mhm. >> Um, and you mentioned the 70%. >> And, uh, I just wanted to go on record saying I'd be a fan of having it lower.
I I don't think it's uh I I think that part of the lifestyle here is uh beach and recreation and uh vacation and the more that we can encourage uh people to get out and use things and
do things and not have cost be an impediment >> or a gee I don't want to pay $8 for this or $10 for this. And uh there are I know from using the pool they lose money every time I go there, but
but that's it's part of having the pool, >> right? >> And um fitness center, you know, the same thing. Uh we're not making a profit on all the events that you're scheduling and doing in recreation. And we shouldn't. Uh I
think that's part of it's like the parks or the library. I mean, if we truly if we truly wanted to have cost recovery, we would charge admission to the library, which is crazy. But that but but that library is very expensive. The renovation alone was
shocking. >> But and you know, you have to wonder in the in this day and age, I'm not picking on the library, but this in this day and age, this is my library. So, but it it's a uh I'm glad we have it and it's a you know it's a wonderful asset, but uh
clearly we don't make money on that. And so if you were to apply that percentage of cost recovery across the board, it would probably be five or 10%. >> Right. And I think too it's important to remember, you know, cost recovery is one little portion of what we do as
recreation or aquatics or even a library. I think that the quality of life um health and wellness benefits outweigh a cost recovery all day every day. So I mean I think that's that's the kind of discussion that we're going to have hopefully when we set this meeting in January to kind of talk about you
know yes this fee could be this but does the community benefit or the individual benefit outweigh what this cost recovery should be. So we'll take a look at all of that when we present to you with the actual fees in January. I know last time we got together we
talked about you got the city component you got the person the individual or uh uh organization wants to hold an event and they also have the other ones that are all the hotels I mean those properties that are benefiting from some of this stuff in terms of their
participation >> I don't know how you handle that but I mean clearly when you go down to Corey Avenue a lot of people coming from all over the area but a lot of a lot of people are staying at the the hotels are coming down take advantage of that which is a which is a positive. So, >> how do how do the hotels, the businesses
go ahead and contribute? >> Well, I think they um right now as far as like contributing towards our our normal everyday events, you know, I mean, like you said, it they're bringing people. I mean, there are people that are staying at their event or staying at their resorts and they're coming to our
events. So, I mean, that's boosting our look, I would say, as the community. So, I mean that's that's kind of a benefit for them um and for the city because without those people coming, you know, these tourists and visitors coming to
some of our events, they're going back and they're telling people how great it was in St. Pete Beach. And I mean that that could be a big boost for our economy. So, look at that as kind of a benefit as far as monetary benefit. Yeah, >> at this point >> I get that just kind of over the whole
it's going to be interesting with whole budget issues we got coming up in the city house shake out. >> Mhm. So >> well I think that's it for president. >> That's about it. I've got a question. >> Okay, sure. >> Sorry I have a lot to say. Um
recently Upen Beach was uh mostly closed for the beach reourishment and um on uh the city's Facebook site they posted up and beach is closed no access
and I live there and run there and I was running across the single access point at 73rd Avenue and I thought Oh, well that's just simply wrong. So, um, and there was
no signage indicating use the access down here. They just roped off or yellow taped off all of the access except that one. It's kind of hidden. You have to look for it. And so, basically, we closed our beach.
Uh, and and uh, but it wasn't closed. And some people figured it out, but others didn't. And so, I wrote to Mark Portugal. What's his job description? >> Mark's our communications manager, >> right? Is that communications? Is that
his thing? I sent I sent that to him and and said, "Hey, this is there there's access." >> And um and then after it reopened, I said, "Hey, it's reopened." >> And so, um is there anything else I can do?
>> Mark would be your best bet for that. Um and you know there is sometimes that for safety reasons too I think that um it was probably mentioned that Alam Beach was closed for the reourishment trying to keep people away from that area as much as possible and that south entrance
was still open and available which is part of the public beach. So I think it probably originated as a as a safety concern and trying to keep as many people as possible off of Uppam Beach and try to funnel them maybe down towards uh county park or pasora during that time. Um and then reopening the
beach kind, you know. Yeah, that's something we would just have to bring that up. Um as far as when we open and close things, we can bring it up and talk to our communications a little bit better. Maybe we can communicate a little bit better that what's open and what's closed.
>> Okay. And um my my last question, the C click fix. >> Um I I've been doing a lot of stuff through that >> and um there are some things that they just will not fix. Uh fortunately at
Hurley Park, uh the mayor had a ribbon cutting so they fixed the water fountain, but it had been on the list for a long time. So, I'm thinking maybe the mayor needs to have a ribbon cutting at each of the parks maybe once a week and then we can we can get stuff worked on. But
one of the things is that when the repairs are actually made, some of them are poorly done. Really poorly done. And um when it gets >> quality of the job or >> Yes. >> Yes. quality of the job or just not done
at all. It's just closed. But, uh, yeah, there were there I've I put in a couple things for that were damaged and, um, they halfway repaired it. It's it's like it was poorly done. It It was It was the
kind of thing that if you were to show it to any of the supervisors all the way up to the mayor of the person who did the work, they would say, "This is crazy." So there was improper or lack of oversight on that.
And one of my thoughts on that is we could uh revise the C click fix so that a photo has to be posted of the repaired item instead of just closed or
acknowledged. And uh if something's acknowledged, there should be a next step. Next step and date expected. Uh is that something that you can relay to whoever does Cclick Fix or do I need to talk to somebody else?
>> No, we'll relay it over to Cclick Fix and see if those are options that we can add into the to the uh to the system. Um I'm not sure what the capabilities are of Cclick Fix at this point. So that's something we'd have to look into. >> Okay. Well, when there's uh when the acknowledgement is done or the closing
is done, there's there's a a comment, sometimes it's thanks for submitting this or whatever. It could be fixed, but I'm I'm sure there's a way to do that. But, uh yeah, I would uh uh I'm happy to do the oversight for the city, but uh um
city should be doing its own over. >> Yeah, I think that that's the you know, goes back to what Eileen mentioned earlier, too. You know, we have crew chiefs now. We have um you know operations managers. We have different levels throughout our organization that go out and will inspect the work after
uh jobs are complete. So I think that's part of kind of the oversight on their part of of going back out and just making sure that the job's done >> to standard. >> Okay. If you need help, let me know. I'll talk to Commissioner Maldonado.
>> What do you guys think on that? >> Great. and get stuff done at your park. Get that fascia taken care of. >> So, we still need approval of minutes and the meeting dates. >> Motion to approve the meeting the the
minutes. Is that what it was? >> Did we do that? >> Yes. >> So, move second. >> Did we set a date? And we'd like to try to go ahead and set a date for the um January meeting to go over the fee study. >> Sure.
>> Um I'm not sure what everybody's availability is. I thought January 20th would probably be an appropriate date. Follows in line with our Tuesdays. >> Believe that would work for me. >> Good. >> Yep. >> I'm good. >> Okay. We'd like to go ahead and set that date.
>> Okay. And then there were two, excuse me, two meetings in the sorry, two meetings in the packet that were included for next year. >> If you had a chance to review those >> standard typical >> Those are your standard. Yeah. >> Yes. >> I just need a motion and a second on
that too, please. >> Approve. >> Yes. >> Second. >> Approved. >> Thank you. >> And you were going to send out that kind of budget stuff that we talked about, right? So we could look that over. >> I will prior to that January meeting.
Oh, okay. Um, well, that's on the final that you'll come up with, but what we're doing now so that we can talk to the public about >> Yeah, the fees and everything. Yeah. What our current fees are, that'll be sent to you. >> Yes. >> All right. Good. You all done? Motion to
adjurnn. >> Thank you all. Very good. >> Thank you.