e e e e e e Mission Workshop of the city of St P beach today is Tuesday March 26 2024 it is 400 p.m. stand for the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the repblic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all city clerk if you'll please do a roll call vice mayor Lorenson here commissioner Marriott here commissioner Philz here commissioner res Nikki here mayor patrilla here we do have a quum thank you all right I have think right now you're up good afternoon everyone nice to meet you in person I know we've talked on the phone I'm Renee norlock and norlock and Associates our base is in Tallahassee and um we've enjoyed working on this project with you we look forward to moving forward some things hopefully tonight and um uh I'm what I'm here for today is to talk with you a little bit about the candidates that we have for this position kind of where we are in the process and um give you some details answer some questions for you about candidates and uh We've made some recommendations to folks I'd like to talk to you in detail about um that said I think we've had probably close to 100 applicants for this position I'll tell you that hasn't I've been doing this for 25 years and that hasn't happened in a very very very very long time um those numbers are just not you know so and I get it I understand why people would want to come to beautiful St Pete Beach um that said we did go through every one of them uh and really assess candidas more so based on what our conversations were with all of you to begin with and um really try to find the folks that we felt like brought um what you were looking for we didn't want to bring you all the same kinds of candidates we wanted some diversity in the group of experience and where they come from and how they got to this point and even why they're interested so um I have five candidates in particular that I'm going to talk to about tonight uh give you some details behind what's on the rasum an know it's really really hard to know what you've got when you're looking at it on paper um but I have talked with these people individually some of these folks I've worked with before so I know them I know their care character I know their reputation uh I may have even recommended them somewhere in the past 25 years and had the opportunity to talk to some of the references at some point and that does carry a lot of weight so I just want you to know that where we're at now is just finding out more about these folks we have some yardage to go here we are scheduled to move forward we have some dates on the calendar tentative dates on the calendar in April to do an on-site interview process and we'll talk about that a little more in detail of what that's going to look like uh what the expectations are for those dates and then um in addition to that we still have to do background checks on candidates we still have to do reference checks on candidates we don't dig into their background too deeply at this point in the process we just have you talk with them have you learn something about them and determine who you're most interested in narrow it down to either a smaller number or a single person and then that's when we really get into their business and make sure everything that you need to know uh is in place and that uh you have the information you need to make a final decision on the city manager so and I'm going to apologize now for my voice I live in Tallahassee and it's springtime there and this is pollen related whatever so I apologize um I don't know if I I hope if you did not get um a document from us a PDF document that has résumés in it other folks that we recommend I do have hard copies here if anybody needs one but I'm basically going to go through this booklet with you um I mentioned that we had almost 100 candidates that list of folks who applied in the back of this book it's four or five pages long I think it there's probably 94 total we also did send out a link to a Dropbox uh if anyone wanted to look at applications you had access to that I understand and could look at those on your own some people like to go through all of them and that's fine that's a lot to go through but um we just wanted to make sure you had access if you had any questions about anyone I will tell you there are folks on this list that at first glance you may think well why isn't that person on there I may know something about them I may know something about their history or their past um if I know that there's a strong red flag on a candidate for for some reason I will I will make a determination that we need to not have a conversation about them I will tell you if a candidate has ever sued their employer that's in my in my industry that's a big noo um you know there's hope that you can work it out some other way if there's a problem and not go to that extent so that's just an example of something that I might have said um we're we're not going to go there so um that's it I'm just going to go down the list of candidates I'm going to go one at a time if you're okay with this and just tell you a little bit about each of these candidates probably not everything that you want to know but what I'd like to do is run through them so then we have time for you to go back to candidates or ask supplemental questions about anybody along the way um we don't have a magic number that we're trying to get to um there's no you know I I didn't say I want to recommend five candidates I didn't do that instead I looked through the candidates and and determined which ones I thought Rose to the level of professionalism and could bring some different skill sets to you to consider and we ended up with five candidates on this list this is this is my list it's a recommendation you don't have to take my recommendation uh you can tweak it you can take it or you can you know say let's go with these five and if we don't like these five then let's bring another set in and talk with them too uh I think if you do in fact bring these five in you're going to have a nice assortment of candidates that bring a different perspective on City management and on addressing the needs of St Pete Beach going forward so that's it I'm going to jump right in Mr Glenn Adams um Glenn has not been in City management um for a lot of years but he has been in um the public sector he is a military person a retired military person and I would say his most considerable experience that caught my eye was when he was chief of staff at the wh Sands Missile Range in wh Sands New Mexico this is a huge base there's it's it's like a city is what it's like and he was in charge of of what went on there there's a lot of different dynamics that went on there um he did retire and he got a job at Santa Fe Texas for a couple of years uh unfort fortunately his first stent as a city manager was during the co years and um that was a that was a tough time uh to um become a city manager and take your first city manager role um also right as he got there right around the time he got there there was a um horrible incident in Santa Fe where there was a shooting at a high school there I I I think some people don't even know about that I mean it it was it was very serious event so he walked into a situation where there was just a lot of things that uh were certainly unexpected and and he he's a good manager he's a very personable person very likable person um he he just is able to connect with the community um he he just draws people in and I think as far as um being able to connect with your community I think he would do a great job um he does have some um engineering type background in some of his roles that he had in the military and I think that's a valuable asset to have for any manager to tell you the truth because you always have Capital Improvement projects that are coming up or that are out there on the horizon and it's always good to have a trained eye at the home uh when you have that kind of work going on what he decided to do after Santa Fe is do interim roles he likes that um he said it he likes to be able to go in and assess what is going on in the community and he has The Knack to do that he's very good at reading what is happening in a community what is needed in the community and he knows how he's a leader he knows how to get people on board on the same page moving forward together um as as a unit if you will um I will just tell you you know some people get a little nervous if someone's military experience that they're going to come in and be barking orders and all that stuff I promise you that he is not that military person and honestly I'm I'm pro-military for a lot of reasons basically because of the training that you get the discipline that you get but when I'm looking at candidates for city manager roles that have been in the military I need to know that they can transition into public sector and do well at it and some can and some cannot so I have no problems whatsoever um making a recommendation about Glenn um recently I did talk to candidates about a lot of things by the way I talked about their management styles I assess those I also talked me to make sure we weren't WS apart right we couldn't get there you know um I talked to them about commitment coming here you know I I let everybody know they need to come to stay for a while this isn't a two-year scent anybody coming here you know I I know those things are Beyond everybody's control but the intent should be there's a lot of work to be done it's going to take a while to do it so you know and and also I talked about them being a part of this community right not on the other side of the state sometimes here or what have you but here um so uh there were a lot of things that I talked about on the front end to make sure that it was a good fit for what this community needs and what this community how this community functions the the need for somebody to come and be part of the community um that said when I talked to him about salary he said that he's done his research as have all of our candidates and they know it's rather expensive to live in St Pete Beach which we all know that right um but he said he did want to be at least around 2115 um to consider this position uh he does have friends that live down in this area I imagine probably some military folks uh in and around the area that he has come down and interacted with so he has been here he's familiar with the beach I I suspect some of these candidates have probably been roaming around here in the last 30 days or so maybe they've been sitting in on your meetings I don't know uh but I would expect that that would be the case um so he's being very picky about where he goes next had some offers um but he's looking for a board he's looking for an a board that seem that is cohesive he's watched your meetings he felt comfortable I mean outside of it being a beautiful city and everybody wants to come here he wants to know who he's going to be working for so he's done his research and and he's very choosy about that because there are a lot of jobs now where there's just a lot going on among amongst the board they're very divided you know it's very divisive environment um some of them are very toxic environment you know you can find them on the Internet you know meetings all day long about those things but he um he's been very particular about where he will come because he wants to come he wants to stay and he wants it to be a good working relationship um the next candidate and I hope I'm going in alphabetical order here is Kevin cper um Kevin is a very solid city manager he um he has a planning background he started in planning um that's a plus in my opinion uh but also everywhere he's gone he's been tasked he's been charged with doing something in that community and he has stepped up every time he was in Auburn as an assistant city manager after doing some other work as a deel as a um planning de uh director and planning uh role uh in the in the northwest Florida area uh including Pensacola and when he got on when he got in Auburn Auburn was just a was a college town that was it it was just the college U that's why it existed but when he was there as assistant city manager the charge was to build the city of Auburn to build it up to make it a destination place for people to create a Main Street to create businesses to create an an experience not just for student students but for others too and he was very successful to doing that I don't know if any of you have been to Auburn lately but it's worth going and it's um pretty impressive what what took place there and that was on his watch he was very involved in making that happen um just like now he's gone from Auburn to Dothan as his first city manager role I don't know if any of you have been to Dothan before but Dothan is a good siiz city in Alabama South Alabama been there a long time about the same size for a long time uh sort of the same economy the same you know things going on there for decades now and he was charged with doing something different in Dothan and putting it on the map and again some people would say well you know it's Auburn and that's Dothan I'm just saying he has the ability to come into a community and understand what's going on and how to move it forward and and take whatever charge is given to him to make that happen uh whether it's connecting with the community which he's been able to do that in Dothan um and there's been a lot going on Doan I will not I mean I have a long list of accomplishments for this guy in Dothan which is pretty amazing to me and if you if you're familiar with Dothan it'd be pretty amazing to you too but he really um has done some exceptional things there so I'm going to tell you this is your candidate that um he can he can he's a great city manager got a very soft personal style to him him very approachable very pleasant a bit of a dry sense of humor very likable guy um smart as a day is long and I'm not taking away from anybody else on here I'm just telling you um but this is the guy who also if you are inclined to look longterm this is what I have noticed about Kevin is he has the ability to look at the 2050 vision for your community not just the 2030 or the 2040 and not a lot of people not a lot of managers in general but certainly not a lot of planning directors or planning people have that really long-term Vision so um I will I will just leave it at that but that's certainly something if you interview him I'm sure it will come up it's about sustainability for your community it's about what do you want it to look like how do you want it to look how do we figure that out with the community to forecast 2054 this city and and he's the person who can automatically walk you through every step of that and I I think that's a really valuable skill set amongst um city managers that I have worked with um let's see if I talked with him about salary I think he was looking around the 225 range if I recall um he would be coming here to stay here it would be uh him and his wife all his kids are grown and moved on and doing their things all over the country um Michael Maxwell I think is our next candidate I have never worked with Michael before I've never met Michael before apparently his father used to be a city manager of in Tallahassee Jerry Maxwell which was um interesting I'm sorry I skipped every let me go with Jim Harriet here um Jim is kind of a different candidate also um I'm not purposely finding people who have um planning backgrounds or engineering backgrounds but it seems like we've got a couple here that do um Jim Harriet used to be in Sarasota County for a long time he certained under Jim lay there for many Jim hired him served under Jim lay there for many many years um Jim actually started a department there um with I'm sorry Jim lay the county manager actually started a new Department there and put Jim Harriet in charge of that department and it was basically handling Capital Improvements project he he's an engineering guy and couple improvements is second nature to him as a matter of fact I have a list he sent me a list yesterday of some of his projects that he has worked on I will be glad to share that with all of you I think I have copies for all of you but right now he's working on the Jack City of Jacksonville Beach Trails master plan with the consulting firm that he's with before that he did the cesta beach renovation project in cesta key um cesta village streetscape Village parking District um just loads of projects in and around Sarasota that the Turtle Beach renourishment for Largo I mean for leok key um all kinds of beach work and beach related work because again I was interested interested in somebody that would know how to help you in the event of either a hurricane or with a seaw wall or with you know other beach related challenges that um that you have and so um he did share that list with me and like I said I'll share it with you too if you'd like um he would like to be around the 225 range also in order to consider this position and um his most recent job prior to the Consulting role was alacha County assistant County Manager um I jok that Jim was the county manager there and maybe Michelle liberman wouldn't appreciate me saying that but Michelle was the county attorney in alacha and she was tapped to be their County manager and she' never been a county manager or City maner manager anywhere ever before she hired Jim to be her assistant because she knew Jim was solid and he came highly recommended to her and he basically came in and became the assistant County Manager the defacto county manager I guess and basically walked Michelle through her first several years as County manager there so I I am comfortable with his skills at this level of being a city manager being a County Manager this is coming back home for him he went to um he went to high school in Naples and grew up in Naples and this is him moving back to this part of the state he actually went I was sharing earlier he actually went to elateral County because he had three kids who were about to go to college and he thought that would get them at UF if he moved there and they all went to um UCF instead so um his plan backfired and now he and his wife uh are mobile and want to come back to what he calls home here um I I think the upside to Jim is his engineering background um again very pleasant person easy to connect with people I think he would fit in he's um very you know it's very personable but at the same time he he understands things from an engineering standpoint and while you're not hiring an engineer there are Engineers that you know it's good to have someone in the seat that understands what your contractors are doing or not doing quite frankly and be able to hold them accountable so I think that's a big plus that Jim brings to the table is his background in civil engineering and again I think um I think his management style would fit in here I'm not I don't have any concerns about him um at all I'll tell you there's maybe an article or two out there on candidates not and I think there's one on Jim from alacha I've vetted these things I've gone back and talked to the people who were involved that could tell me the rest of the story if you will and you know there's always a rest of the story quite frankly when it comes comes to a newspaper article so I feel comfortable with these candidates that they're not bringing any baggage to the table when they come here um next candidate Michael Maxwell I was saying that I I've never met Michael before I've never worked with him before he did an exceptional interview with me um he's been up in clear waterer and he's no longer there it was a mutual decision to part ways up there however um I think what happened is there was sort of some shifting going on the top there and the Deputy roles and in the in the city manager roles that um he he had gone into a a kind of a side assignment uh in in his most recent role with them and I'll tell you he was really excited about it and and that just I kind of want to I want to highlight because this is what stood out to me when he became the chief Innovation officer at Clearwater he said it was the most Funny's had in a really long time and I understand this because I work with cities and counties all across the nation and every city and Count's at a different stage in their evolution and many of them have embraced Innovation and many of them are doing all kinds of really creative great things to create a culture in the city environment that um sends the message that we care about the employees that um we care about the the residents we care about the community we care about everybody right and and there's different ways to do that there's different ways to impact the culture and and then when you do that people start getting excited about it and it builds on and and all kinds of innovative things happen from it and you basically changed your organization for the better and that was the decision that was made at the time that Mah was assigned to the CIO role and it was and it wasn't popular because change hurts sometimes but the count the the city manager at the time said you know burn the ships we're doing this we're going in and so he felt like he had the support in the backing of leadership there including the elected officials and others so he just dove into it after he got into it some things happened with the city manager and you know it was kind of the city manager's idea to do this and so the support waned a little bit but he tried to do what he could in that role and uh new managers came in and different Dynamics they wanted their people in certain places and all this other things so there was just a decision that he would step down and go do his own thing which I think he's doing didn't put it on here but I think he's doing some really interesting Consulting work right now and um this is his first choice as far as a next city he did he did learn about as being an assistant in clear waterer the difference between reporting to the elected officials and being part of the decision-making process and carrying that out versus being in an assistant role where you're just waiting for the directives right and you're just assisting it and he did indicate that in his next move he wants to go back to being in a city manager seat that he's not interested in being assistant again he learned a lot while he was there and he was glad he did it and even the CIO um role he was really glad that he did that because that's something he's carrying forward with him um as far as salary um me see if I have what he was interested in when I ask people I can't ask them what they make I mean I can research it it's all public record right but um what I typically do is just ask where do you where do you want to be to consider this job and is there flexibility in that sometimes they tell me where they are other times they don't um and he just said you know that he was flexible as far as salary and and mind you everybody has looked up what you paid your last manager and kind of what the package was and all that right because it is public so I think everybody has a gauge on on where you want to be in that regard um let's see not sure if I'm good on [Applause] time um Fran robustelli never worked with Fran before um she was really a nice surprise to tell you the truth in all this um really really really solid manager um she's managed in a lot of places you'll see all of them in California and you're thinking what the heck why would somebody from California want to come here there's a lot of people from California that want to come here by way um but she's from here she's from this area and uh she got her undergrad degree at um USF in Tampa and then her followed her husband's career he was he was from he's from California and so she went on the other side of the country and followed his career out there she was not looking for a job when we reached out to her you may say why would you reach out to her Renee well we reach out to everybody and we always know that there's somebody in somewhere maybe California who's from this area who would be interested in coming back home and who has done some great things and sure enough here's Fran um she was very pleasantly surprised to get a call from us and we reached out we had a conversation with her um her husband uh took a look at it with her they sat down and said you know what yes and so she's not applying for any other jobs she said if I don't go anywhere I can stay right where I am and stay here for a long time she's out in the Bay Area stay here for a long time time I guess Oakland City of Oakland tried to get her and she said no way you know she likes some more um I forget how she described it but she likes a a she likes an organization where she can connect with people Oakland is not necessarily that it's huge um so she would stay right what she is she said if I don't get St P Beach that's okay you know I'm happy here I'm not going you know I'm not looking for a job um but um she did her homework she did a lot of homework on this and um she is interested when I talk to her about salary um she said well I'll tell you I'm making a lot more than probably they can pay which I knew that it's California but she said I will be interested in coming she said but I think the lowest I could go is 250 because of the cost of living in St Pete Beach and I said okay I said will you just stay open to the fact that there's a package that goes with this and that somehow you know we can work out the details and get a package that's acceptable to you she said by all means but we had excellent conversation I'm just telling you she's she's solid um I was thrilled to to have her in this pool and again I don't want to highlight her other than she's on the other side of the world and you may be looking like what the heck Renee you know but I'm just telling you she's definitely worth having a look at and having a conversation with she's she's very bright there's I don't think there's anything that could come up that she can't handle and she can't tackle um and again just a real personable person a very likable person and um I highly encourage you to talk with her as well as the other candidates um I'm just looking to see if there's anything else that I can share with you I did ask them I did ask all candidates there's a question I have it's a mile long but I do ask is there anything in your background that might be considered controversial or maybe just warrants further explanation on your part uh and then I give examples right and I say Prof personal examples would be things like DUIs or criminal convictions or what have you because if we have a DUI in college 25 years ago okay but if we have a DUI every month for the last three months we have a different problem so we need to know that but um also on a professional level I ask is there been any allegations of and again I say this is an example any allegations of sexual harassment hostile work environment um ever been fired ever been forced to resign ever been the subject of disciplinary action or proposed disciplinary I mean I give them the Gam you know because I want them to know what I'm asking you know I want them to tell me up front I'm going to do my backgrounds I'm going to do my research I'm going to do nex's newspaper articles and all this I'm going to find out what I need to find out but I would rather hear from them what the rest of the story is if something is out there and and to tell you the truth people are very honest with me because they do tell me about that DUI back 25 years ago at College you know and um but anyway U I have that conversation with them and I even included any EEOC complaints that when through the proper channels and were vetted and then resulted in any disciplinary action um for the most part you know I I expect people in this role who have been in this career to have some EEOC complaints because they happen um my question is did you do the right thing right and did it did you do something wrong you know it was it vetted properly and what have you so I don't have any concerns about any of these candidates she did mention that about six months ago I think don't quote me on that but it's been a little while that she did um uh I'm going to say she I forget how she word it but she fired the police chief um and then she shared with me some things about that that I'm not at Liberty to share publicly right now um that I I totally get it um but that said there was nothing and she said I'm totally comfortable with the decision you know and then and then of course that person has filed some kind of EEOC complaint about the firing or something like that but she said you know I made the decision it was the right decision I stand by the decision I'm not second guessing the decision and everything is good but that in my opinion is not she's she was not she's not looking for a job because of that um apparently the city that she's in has um a history of a lot of racial unrest going back to the 50s and and this has all become part of that if you will but again you know it's six months removed now and she's very comfortable with that but I just want to let you know I've asked everybody that question and you know at some level if they said yes you know there was an EEOC complaint because I fired someone and you know they were mad and and it went through the channels and it was it wasn't founded you know and nothing came of it so I'm looking for again patterns here of behavior for people whenever I'm looking in these folks background so um that's it I think I think I think what we have here is we have five candidates that are really different from one another they come at this differently um what I did emphasize with candidates so you know is that I was told um by all of you individually and in our individual phone calls that there were certain things that you were concerned about as far as the next city manager goes you wanted someone who was going to come and stay here not come and go you wanted someone that could connect with the community not just with developers or the business side of things here but the residents that are here and that you know you wanted to see things get better as far as the organization itself is concerned that you know you have some challenges as a city as does everyone but you know you want the right person to come in and fit and I I really think for your city and I think you guys probably Express this to me fit is a really big deal um you can get someone who knows the job hands down left and right you know and and is so good at it but if if nobody feels comfortable around them or if you can't work with them as a team member right and they can't work well with the staff here then it doesn't matter how good they are how smart they are what they do it's got to be someone to actually connect with all of you and that was an overarching message that I got from a lot of you so I'm going to take a swig of water here and give you a chance um to ask me any questions any follow-ups any concerns I will tell you that again we have some yardage to go here we're not at the endgame um the plan is to bring candidates in for interviews and we have an assortment of I'll say events for that process one would include and I don't want to get ahead of myself but I'll go ahead and throw this out this one would include that candidates sitting down with each one of you individually so you can have a one-on-one conversation with them it's always different when you're in the room with a person and having dialogue with them but also in addition to the one-on ones there would be a group interview where and like in this room in a public form where people could come um and they stand up here and you interview them you ask them questions and have it you know see how they see how they respond see how they handle tough questions uh on the spot right um also um I would encourage and I think I've talked with staff about this um what I would call a meet and greet uh it doesn't have to be very formal you can have it here at at Town Hall at City Hall if you want but this would be a chance for for everyone to come right for the community members to come for staff to come so it should be after hours so staff can come and and and mingle with candidates um so you have staff you have community members you have residents you have business you have chamber folks you have everybody who is interested in the city manager be able to come and just interact in an informal setting with the candidates and kind of just have conversation with them right and get a sense of who they are and what they what they bring um and then in addition to that we'd like them to do a tour we used to do guided tours of the city prior to or during their interviews so they could go around and see things that are important and may come up in your discussions or in your interviews what we suggest now is a self-guided tour we give them points of interest to go and look at but we found that when they wander around on their own they love doing that they learn a whole lot more and they're able to interact with different things and see different things and learn different things um so we definitely want them to do that too we'd also again this is for you to decide later I'm just throwing this out um we also typically have what I call a Q&A session with Department directors that means Department directors are all in one big room one big conference room and we bring the candidate in one at a time it's not an interview the directors are not picking their boss they don't hire the city manager you do but it gives them a chance to interact with these candidates and it's a two-way street the candidates get to see the bench they get to understand you know the department directors learn a little bit about them see what team they're getting here and kind of understand the role we are trying to sell candidates on you as much as you you know as much as the other way around right we're we're trying to help them see what they're getting into to make sure they not only want it but they're prepared to do it and they have a good gauge on it because you want to set them up for Success coming in here this part of the process starts their experience with the city and we want to make sure that's a good city so I know that was a lot to throw out there and we need to talk about that after we talk about candidates but but my purpose of sharing ing that is we're not at the end yet we still have some work to do as far as this process rolling it out trying to get a consensus on the same candidate which is always a challenge but we'll get there um doing references doing background checks and even some of the concerns that you may have about some of these candidates that you might Express today to me you know I'm going to be making notes of those things because if you move them forward and interview them I'm going to want to ask references specifically about those issues right so we've got more going on behind the scenes here than just having interviews and just picking a name okay we're still doing a lot of work behind the scenes for you so I'm really going to take a breath now and thank you mayor thank you Renee any questions comments I've got a few unless you want to go first mayor by all means go ahead all right um so do we have an idea I know I could look it up what our current city manager makes at range um or or the one that was previous to the previous one I don't have all the details of his package I think there was a few elements to that that you know we would probably want to consider going forward however um I think someone told me that uh benefits and everything the package uh was somewhere between 225 and 250 okay but I don't have a base salary out of that did all five agree um that they would come in for the commission hearing the public hearing meet and greets possibly and then uh department head means that's a lot of travel it it is um it's it's going to be all done in about a two or three- day period I'll roll into there I think you may have been notified of just what your time commitments are on those two days so you won't be involved in everything going on but there'll be a lot going on I think if somebody has to hang out somewhere for a while at with an interview process St Pete Beach is a place that they probably want to be doing that so um the only challenge we do have is it's I'll say it's spring break I mean spring break is about three months now um you know and bringing people in we're going to have to work really hard and staff has been helping me with that already about just you know Finding lodging for people during the time where everything is sold out and my last question I hope this doesn't come out wrong um were you the firm that uh produce uh Mr Reyes our previous manager no no I was not um I know of him I probably talked to him maybe a handful of times in my 25 years I know kind of his background I knowing from the other side of the state I actually work closely with his wife who was Deputy city manager over there because I did the Miami Beach city manager twice over a 12-year period and the second time I did it she was the deputy in my point of contact so I I I know more of her as just a professional colleague and I remember her saying her husband was in City management but I never put it together um so I know where he I know more about where he's from and um and kind of his experience and his I guess um time on the other side of the state thank you you're welcome thank you questions comments I've got a couple questions um you touched on a couple of these individuals as far as willingness to live specifically in St Pete Beach the other candidates are have you talked about where they would plan on living yes um just so you know we thought it was 10 mile radius from City Hall for some reason but we understand it's 10 mile radius from the city that the city manager can live all of these candidates have said and I typically find this with city manager candidates they want to live in St P Beach because um I mean it's sap Beach but that's not the that's not their reasoning it's because you know it's hard to be involved in decisions here and Carry Out directives from this board and then go across the bridge you know and live somewhere else not have to live by the rules you know and and the ordinance is here so even though um that that parameter is there for them even if you had no residency requirement most any candidate would bring you would say I'm going to live in the city that I'm responsible for managing and and in this case the challenge is the cost right from one side of the bridge to the other but again they know that and they've done their research on that okay and my other question um could you clarify which ones you have not met in person I have not met Michael Maxwell and Fran robustelli okay and then one other question I had um I I may have missed it but I didn't have a compensation that Jim was ideally looking for Jim here yet yeah [Applause] um I wrote down 225 225 I believe is um where he landed yes he um he currently is but uh he currently is around 190 I believe so he wanted to be and I think he had done his research and he said the he that he perceived the range to be somewhere between 220 and 250 for this job and that he would need to be at least at 220 to consider it which I do think by the way if it's any help to you I think that's a competitive salary for this job um I again I'm not sure where your last manager what the package all included and what happened have you um but that's you know something that we would look at that I'm sure they've probably looked at probably have a copy of the contract already okay I think that's it for me thank you okay thank you out out of the 80 some other applicants that you had um and and you have these five who you think are the the the best candidates for us did did you have a like an easy second tier five or did you have like a two or three that you were like oh man were really tempted to put these in but maybe not or or was it very much just a like man these are the ones and the rest of them are like so so different that it's a good question council member um the excuse me the um there were candidates that I looked at um that I would have put um in here except for some reason recent past events that I just felt like would be a difficult sell um I I just didn't I didn't I didn't do that to them and I didn't do that to you um I feel like there was not an identifi easily identifiable tier two in that group um because there were a lot of people in that group I did not know but what I did see would there were a lot lot of candidates that had smaller town experience which is okay but you're small as far as the number of residents but you're not small you're in the thick of it um and so while I suppose they're probably very good managers and could probably be a good manager here I just felt like uh I just felt like the con wasn't there some of them were places in no listen nothing against Utah or Kansas or no nothing against that but if their whole career was in that particular State I just felt like you know I feel like it was a bit of a jump you know what I mean I felt like these folks had been in enough places to know how to acclimate to a completely different place some of them have Florida experience which is important to us too um but also they they've all kind of proven that they can adapt and can be effective um I wasn't sure about others I would have to literally dig down pretty hard and we can always do that um and probably interview a good I don't know 25 more people to find out some rock stars in there I don't know if that answers your question yeah no absolutely thank you missioner Betty questions comments I do not have any either you do not either okay I I got one more question so of these 94 people how many did you interview I'm going to say 10 to 12 because that's usually how manye it ends up being um I think I probably looked at at least that many and some of them so we put in our proposal that we do Nexus newspaper articles and whatever we do social media searches whatever we do now backgrounds and what have you the truth is before we start talking to anybody we do those too because we need to know if if something's out there and they're not telling us right so we put in our proposal that we do it at a certain point when we're recommending candidates we do it on the front end so I may have talk to some people or maybe um put them over in this column to talk to them and then taking them out so I don't have an exact number on that thank you very welcome so with that said mayor I think the goal is to move forward and we're going to move forward fast um I will tell you first of all I just want to thank everybody here and tell you what a fantastic job the city has done because when I called in December and said we're starting this search um staff said no hold on um there's some things going on we got to take care of first and I just commend you for what you've done here um and uh and I am able to share this with candidates you know none of them were none of them were talking about anything about the city other than I you know I've done my homework and and it looks like a great opportunity so congratulations as as a board on on moving forward and and getting to this point that said we also even though we had to pause for a little bit we kind of revved up a little bit because we wanted to get ahead of others in and around the area that are also looking for managers and I can tell you I'm known for people trying to take my candidates after I make a presentation so I'm going to go call these people as soon as I get out of here um it it it's really unfortunate but I mean you know transparency is what it is and you need it and these meetings are essential but I have had candidates to tell me that after I after I present them somewhere their phone starts ringing off the hook so I don't think we're going to lose anybody to anybody else I think we're solid I think the fact that we've already got these dates and again Mr Saunders and your staff for pushing us on getting these dates down made that happen because we're going to move quickly as far as timelines for city manager searches we are two weeks out maybe to do this and that's just the right amount of time it doesn't leave candidates hanging out there and exposed where they are right or in the papers or what have you and and it keeps them it it keeps them engaged and we get there quickly so that we don't lose anybody so I I commend all of you for doing that but I will be back here in a couple of weeks I'll send you some suggested questions for the interviews that doesn't mean you have to use my questions but they're really good and um it it does mean that at least you have something that you can look at and come up with a standard set of questions what I'm going to ask you to do first round interviews is ask all the same questions to everybody and I know you're just like oh no you know they're so different I want to know different things the way the questions are written they're open-ended so you're going to get the answers you want from all the candidates and then at the end of interview with a particular candidate if you still have something lingering there about that I'm going to encourage you to ask that question at the end I don't want them leaving an interview either one-on-one or public interview and you still don't have answers that you need from that candidate or from me okay my job is to make sure you're as informed as you can be about everything that's going on so we will do some suggested questions we'll have some ranking and rating sheets just to help you kind of look at soft skills and even rank candidates as they go forward Ward um because it's hard sometimes with five of them you're like I can't remember who was what you know this the sheets that we give you will help you with all of that um and we also will have the schedule in there so you know what's going on with everybody else and where everybody is at a certain time and I work I have no idea what my phone is just dinging like no tomorrow I could just chunk it right now so I apologize for that but um anyway um we have a lot to do and and I'm working closely with Wayne and staff to make all that happen great thank you so much thank you it's very nice to meet all of you I'll see you soon all right thank you unless we have anything else for this meeting in that case thank you Renee we are adjourned --------- e let's call The War of the city Commission meeting of the city of St Pete Beach today is Tuesday March 26th 2024 it is 6 p.m. if you please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all city clerk if you'll please do the roll call vice mayor lorensen here commissioner Marriott here commissioner Phils here Commission commission res Niki here mayor patrill here we have a quorum thank you city clerk um we are going to this evening swear in our two new Commissioners that were elected and the first one will be Karen Marriott for district one and raise your right hand and put your hand on the Bible I Karen Marriott I Karen Marriott do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I am a full-time resident that I am a full-time resident of the city of St Pete Beach of the city of St Pete Beach that I will support that I will support protect and defend protect and defend the Constitution and government the Constitution and government of the United States of the United States and of the State of Florida and of the State of Florida that I am duly qualified that I am duly qualified to hold office to hold office under the Constitution under the constitution of the State of the State and that I will and that I will well and Faithfully well and Faithfully perform the duties perform the duties of Commissioner of commissioner on which I am about to enter on which I am about to enter so help me God so help me God thank [Applause] you and next will be commissioner Betty Ras Niki for District 3 right here I Betty res Niki I Betty Riki my name do solemnly swear do solemnly swear swear that I am a full-time resident that I'm a full-time resident of the city of St Pete Beach of the city of St Pete Beach that I will support that I will support protect and defend protect and defend the Constitution the Constitution and the government of the United States and the government of the United States and of the State of Florida of the state Lord I am d that I am duly qualified that I am duly qualified to hold office to hold office under the Constitution under the constitution of the State of the State and that I will and that I will well and Faithfully well and Faithfully perform the duties perform the duties of Commissioner of commissioner on which I am about to enter on which I'm about to enter so help me God thank you I think you're up again sorry that's I think you're up again with the proclamation okay um Jennifer did you want to speak Proclamation yeah here comes Jennifer McMahon thank [Applause] you hopefully you're aware because there's a big sign right on one of the pillars as you walk into City Hall off a Cory Avenue that we are a tree city and what that entails is we have to um do a few things in the year to keep up that status and one of those one of those is to have a proclamation every year um declaring a certain day as Arbor Day um so mayor I don't know if you want to read it if you want me to read it please okay do the honors whereas in 1872 the Nebraska Board of arch AR agriculture established a special day to be set aside for the planting of trees and whereas this holiday called Arbor Day was first deser observed with the planting of more than a million trees in Nebraska and whereas Arbor Day is now observed throughout the nation and the world and whereas trees can be a solution to combating climate change by reducing the erosion of our precious top soil by wind and water cutting Heating and Cooling cost moderating the temperature cleaning the air producing life-giving oxygen and providing habitat for wildlife and whereas trees are a renewable resource giving us paper wood for our homes fuel for our fires and countless other wood products and whereas trees in our city increase property values enhance the economic Vitality of business areas and beautify our community and whereas trees wherever they are planted are a source of s source of joy and spiritual renewal now therefore I Adrian patrilla mayor of the city of St P Beach do hereby proclaim the last day of April as Arbor Day in the city of St Pete Beach and I urge all citizens to celebrate Arbor Day and support the efforts to protect trees woodlands and further I urge all citizens to plant trees to Gladden the heart and promote the well-being of the future generations and to do that if you don't have the money well guess what we are giving away trees this Saturday in heran park and some seeds if you don't have a lot of space and you want to do some plants as part of our spring event in heran park so we have the underwater egg hunt our Easter Bunny will be there it's from 10:00 to noon and our parks department will be out there there will be a touch of truck but we will be giving away trees and plants and seeds at the event so um help support the cause in our tree City and come by and get a free tree or plant or seed so thank you thank you do we have any amendments to the agenda as proposed I wanted to add an item for discussion okay which is which is I I wanted to add um to discuss about form six lawsuit that um I'm I'm not sure if you all read it but just wanted to bring it up for discussion item anyone [Applause] else we have a motion to approve the agenda as amended I'll move to approve the agenda as amended I'll city clerk if you'll please do a roll call commissioner Philz yes commissioner res Nikki yes vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner Marriott yes mayor patella yes motion carries city clerk do we have any audience comments we do Brad pedit if you'll please state your name and address for the record good evening everybody it was nice to walk down in nice weather it's about the longest weather I spent in s Beach and stuff if feel please state your name and address for the record so that'll be uh my name is Brad pett I live at 8151 blind Pass Road in St Pete Beach thank you sir uh and I did enjoy my walk uh I just came up here I wanted to show a little gratitude um to the lot of intestinal fortitude uh for you all to step up as appointees when that arose to a little bit of more intestinal fortitude to run for office on aosst um but I got to take my hat off to it's a difficult job um I've lived in St Pete Beach uh for do math because I'm in dimensional uh just about 20 years now um we've all who've lived locally over a period of time seen the culture of the community change not only in the beaches but in the cities um uh where I used to live I used to really enjoyed Clear Water Beach CU Clearwater Beach was a residential Florida Beach town with a you know a tourist base absolutely I understand that uh you couldn't pay me to go there now couldn't do it uh the uh conditional permit use getting pass for SRA did cause me concern um my concern is it's going to continue it's going to go to the trade wins it's going to go to Beth Moran's property and it's going to disappear here so I talked to my wife the other night about her age and I'm like you know what are we going to do I'm a transplant she's a straight up Florida Cracker which is not a derogatory statement for anybody who knows Florida she's a true Floridian I told her Panhandle cuz that's what we like about it but again gratitude um may not agree with everything will'll never be hostile love my neighbors love the people who live here wow I did that quick but again just just gratitude thank you for what you do um I know it's not an easy job especially know it's not an easy job when you got to sit here till 2:30 in the morning so uh uh I guess my Vis are off to you and season openings in two days thank you very much thank you sir that was the only General comment thank [Applause] you next item on the agenda is 4 a the consent agenda 4 A and B do we have a motion I'll move to approve the consent agenda do we have a second second city clerk if you please do the roll call commissioner o Niki yes vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Philz yes mayor patella yes motion carries thank you next we have action item 5A election of a vice mayor will entertain Notions suggestions recommendations nominations not everyone at once like I I can't do it so uh one of yall is going to have to do it do we have to make a change um we don't have to make a change we will be making a change whether we do it now in two or three months time so um we can you can nominate that it stays the same for example so that's an option Rich are you willing to stay vice mayor yes okay um I would make a motion just to keep it as is for now then I'll second city clerk I feel please do a roll call vice mayor lorensen no no I'm just kidding yesion marott yes commissioner Philz yes commissioner res Nikki yes mayor patrilla yes motion carries okay next we have item 5B appointments or reappointments to the city STP beach advisory boards and committees uh we do not have to take any action but if you do want to take action we can I don't have any action to take at this point I've reached out to most of my appointees and um have heard back from a few and I'm waiting to hear back from a few so I don't for for for me I don't have any action to take at this time District Four is good as well I will be changing um one of mine um so and I think the application is complete should I mention the name now or wait until the trainings are complete I'm not sure cuz that I mean if they've have they qualified I mean have they have they buil out the accurate the information application and everything like that I believe so everything's complete okay shouldn't be to announce yeah okay so for um just for the board of adjustment um and I hope I say your last name right I know I said Garo right um and she's here actually too so Kathy um will be appointed for um in April um for the board of adjustment thank you okay any further items of discussion on 4B public comments okay thank you next we have item 5 SE the lazarillo park replacement rights lights Jennifer welcome back good evening Jennifer McMahon Chief Operating Officer um before you is a replacement of the light system um that are in lazarillo tennis courts um probably Betty can attest we have so many electrical problems in that particular Park where the lights don't come on the lights stay on too long it's an old s old timey system that you hand um crank and this um replacement um in particular for the galvanized um pole is a one system um that um is is a warranteed for 25 years whereas opposed to the other ones keeping the concrete poles that are existing is a 10-year warranty um so our recommendation is to do the 25 particular because of the location of where it's at and um some of the issues that we have with flooding and so this would upgrade that and what comes with this um we did this in Hurley Park is it is controlled by an app so by a computer or a phone we can control the time so if it's raining we can turn it off um when when um it's on too long we get a a call and we can turn it off from wherever we're at so that is a very similar system that we have in Hurley park it is the same system and the other um what I like about um this lighting system as well is they're very cognizant of the lighting concerns we have that Park is surrounded by homes um and so is Hurley Park as well as Turtle lighting so they design they have a system where they design how they are faced and the angles they're at so there is no light shining in any of the neighbors homes and there isn't anything not particularly from that Park that would do anything to harm any of the wildlife so um that is what is before you today I I do have some questions on that one um now and now that you said wild wildlife just because I wasn't think of that yes the oses so do they have to be move do someone come to move those ospr that are off we can only do them during a certain time of year so if they're laying the eggs we can't do it and we have to wait till the the fledge Lanes leave before we can do anything on the light poles okay yeah because we've had to deal with that and we've had to go on to um uh D on it because there's drop throughout different times so we were trying to address it and try to move it but it's not um something we can do until they leave the nest has it ever been considered to do and just I I didn't even think about it until you're saying this but um because there are so many Ospreys there between the trees and the trees that have died and some that had to been removed um to have a structure for them so that they don't get on the next light fixture and do the droppings like you're saying yes we did also have a design for that um about a year or two ago when we were looking at doing that so I think it would be a good time for us to um do that at the same time without harming any of the nesting but yeah it's like a wooden structure with like a little cage so it's not a large expense but it's definitely something we looked into and that's something that we can bring later on you think or is a city I don't know the cost of something like that to do I'll find the cost but I don't think it would be something that would be okay sign over the 25 yeah okay um then the other thing is for hours of operation on lights because um when I was president of the Donar and I know Jennifer we've talked many times about this um in different meetings is how how late those because it was that timer system so you know you could TW turn it and nobody could literally be on the tennis court but because it's just ticking away like you know the old style microwaves you know to turn off um what are the hours of all our parks with tennis courts um or um baseball fields you know is there specific hours who who has the authority to turn them on and off is it just anyone who shows up just you know like we've always had that issue of just turning them on 10 o'clock we have the ability to set the time where we get into an issue it happens every time we change our the bring forward and go backwards we tend to always get a call because we always forget to go back and change the time off or the time on based on whatever time of year um but um with this system it is more controlled and it's not um as manual it is today so are all our Parks manually controlled by anybody who goes to the park not by the time where it turns off or can get turned on WE control that um in a separate location that the the public doesn't have access to so our facilities guys can go in and change the back end of it I guess you can say but turning them on and off during those times are done manually by the public okay so they um so the light won't stay on till 10:00 the whole time unless someone uses unless someone uses it and so it's not a so is there a timer so like will it time off or does someone manually go there like how so if not the same thing will keep happening that the timer hasn't gone off but there's nobody on I mean we have people who go on the tennis court and just walk through the tennis court and turn it on they're not playing yeah um so it could take an hour I don't know what the length of time is um how do with this system it's immediate with the old system it's like a 20 minute crank up to get them to turn on and then to turn off I don't know if that anybody familiar with using those but that's what's on there today right so this is a switch off and on this is motion detected or is is there a feature like that that's going to turn it off good question um um I don't know that we've got it where it's motion censored but I play on tennis courts that are motion censored for them to turn on if I mean that it would help because I know you know I would hate to tell a resident well you can just you know walk across the street and then go turn off the light you know if maybe there's a better way of doing it yeah um because that was an issue um and so therefore you said till 10 o'cl so that means anybody who goes onto any park can't turn them on after 10 correct okay and we'll look at doing an electrical box on the outside yes thank you yeah that would help because we know that there was boxes there before but they had no outlets and since we've been doing some events over there that would be that's easy to do with this yep okay so Jennifer basically it's the the two proposals are whether it's a 10year warranty or a 25e warranty and it's a $20,000 price difference right is that galvanized um poles yeah and the other one is keeping the existing concrete poles okay and the the the Galvanize comes as one system as rather than peace mealing it so our our recommendation for maintenance purpose alone just the savings over a 15-year time is worth I believe a 25e warranty okay how long have they been in business mcow long time do you know I remember using them in the mid 80s so they've been around a long time it's just I think it's important to know whether the 25 warranty is worth something or not we've used them before and um a rep reputable company that I would feel comfortable with for sure I understand just it's more comforting to hear they've been around since the 80s as opposed to if they showed up two years ago oh no they're welln yeah they are very well known just uh you know one interesting fact about them that they like to say is when the Daytona Speedway was lit for the first time this is who did that any further questions for Jennifer musco has been around since 1976 looked it up yeah I know cuz I've played tennis at those parks and I think I might have been the one who called in the fall because yeah yeah it happens like every time the time Chang and it's always like but the new the is the new system going to help prevent that in any way the new system is yes way better the it's Lillo that we always get the phone call for um we've redone Hurley Park we don't have any issues and hopefully soon with stuff that we would do with Egan we'll get those online and then we replaced Venus with LED but we didn't do it through a musco system okay yeah I know there is one active ospray Nest I don't know if there's eggs right in the center yeah um so I think that's a good idea about potentially if a structures fairly reasonable cost to put outside of the cour I think that's a cool idea there could and there could be some funding with some of the organizations that we worked with that designed it too okay and for the motion um if there that's um available can it be added you know I don't know like the whole like if that's something I'll find out I'll call Bob city clerk do we have any audience comments not on this item thank you do we have a motion I'll I'll move to approve the proposal with musco Lighting in the amount of $202,450 for the LED tennis and Lighting in Lazaro Park I'll second city clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Philz yes commissioner asz Nikki yes vice mayor lenen yes mayor patrilla yes motion carries thank you next we have item six resolutions quaza judicial hearing resolution 2023-24 conditional use permit 23069 and variance 23068 45090 GF Boulevard C attorney yes thank you mayor as you know quas judicial is going to require you all to um disclose any ex party communication research that you may have done on this matter uh then when uh it comes time to start the process you want to have the clerk swear in anyone who's going to speak and testify here today um I will also indicate that there are two you're going to have to vote separately one on the CU and then secondly on the variant those are two different items but it'll the code reads that if a variance is a companion to a cup it is heard by the commission typically your variances go to your board of adjustments but when they're accompanying a cup they come to you but still there're two separate uh votes but you'll hear one presentation okay thank you this dis closures and soring in District for I've had zero on this one go ahead um lots of emails um from uh people who live in the area or no longer living in the area from the condominium on the far end on the street by the beach um and just personally myself driving to the area and monitoring it you know throughout the the week and on week thank you um I've been by the property driving by reviewed emails and talked with City staff on it and reviewed the packet thank you uh I've had uh emails from a handful of residents and spoke to a couple of nearby residents on the phone as well thank you Mr Mayor i' like to stand corrected I was thinking more along the line of lobbyist stuff so yes I read all the emails I've also looked at a lot several times thank you um I've met with the applicant on a number of occasions they are an appearance of one of my neighbors um I've reviewed the package read the emails spoke with staff did a site visit thank you city clerk if you'll please wear in would you like me to read the resolution please resolution 22324 a resolution of the city Commission of the city of St Pete Beach Florida approving a conditional use permit pursuant to section 35.3 B3 of the Land Development code to allow the permanent establishment of a semi-pervious commercial parking lot at parcel number 06 3216 08118 0000 0470 with the address of 5090 Gul Boulevard in incorporating the conditions outlined here in and providing for correction of scrivener's error and an effective date thank you if you are going to be addressing the commission please stand and raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that the information or factual presentation that you will give to the commission is truthful thank you thank you Brandon good evening can we get that PowerPoint thank you I'm Brandon Barry I'm a city planner a senior planner and a certified planner this is conditional use permit case number 23069 associated resolution 204 uh and also variance case number 23068 which is traveling under the conditional use permit the address is 590 GF Boulevard the owner and applicant is hadock LLC agent who is presentent is Timothy Driscoll Esquire of Driscoll Law Firm the applicant requests a conditional use permit to permit the permanent establishment of a semi-pervious commercial parking lot this request is made pursuant to Land Development code section 35.3 B3 there also requesting variances from Land Development code section 3910 to allow for the lot to be utilized without requiring Frontage sidewalk improvements and pedestrian amenities here's the timeline of the application was submitted and amended in August the technical Review Committee was in September in November the applicant responded to the technical Review Committee comments um there was initially a noticing in November we did ren notice this month as well um there were two continuations of this case it start um the first case was in December it was continued to January when it was continued again we did notice throughout the month of March I have received six letters that were published for the pack packet I also received one letter after the packet was published which was sent to the Commissioners and I'll make part of the record and um of course tonight is the public hearing for the case so as always what is a conditional use permit based on the definition in division two it is a use that as operational physical and other characteristics that may be different from those of the predominant permitted uses in a zoning District but which is a use that complements or may otherwise be compatible with the intended overall development within a district provided that specified standards are met purpose and intent out of division 4 is that certain uses are conditional rather than uses by right they are subject to the conditional use regulations because they may but do not necessarily have significant adverse effects on the environment Public Services the desired character of an area or they may create nuisances a review of these uses is necessary due to the impact they may have on the surrounding area or neighborhood the conditional use review provides an opportunity to allow the use when there are minimal impacts to allow the use but impose mitigation measures to address identified concerns or to deny the use of the concerns cannot be resolved here's a listing exhibits here is an aerial map of the property it is located at the southwest corner of Gul Boulevard in 51st Avenue the property has the zoning of LR large resort District that is also the future land use commercial parking lots are an allowable conditional use as a primary use in this zoning District here's the survey of the property the property currently contains a three-unit home that was constructed in 1940 here is a site plan for this request this is the second time this request is coming to the city commission it was previously heard as a conditional use perm in 2018 it was approved with conditions at the time uh for a three-year period outside of that the applicant is also received five temporary approvals since 2015 there was one in 2015 one in 201 17 one in 2022 and one in 2023 I'm sorry that's four four temporary use uh permits so this is the sixth time that this request is being reviewed this is the identical site plan to the use that was approved by the city Commission in 2018 there are 28 parking spaces on the lot eight of them but the residence directly to the South and to the West there are also 20 spaces along the perimeter of the lot um you can see it's hard to see on the survey from here but in the southwest corner there is a fenced area that contains a portable toilet that has been maintained while the use was in effect since at least 2018 the applicant is not requesting any um adjustments to what was approved in 2018 this is the site plan that they've requested under this scope here are some existing photos of the site these were taken about a month back uh you can see in the top left and top right photos these are the four spaces that the applicant maintains for the residential use in the property they're located to the west side of the building you can see the portable toilet there in the center this was taken while the use was still operating the bottom left photo you can see the shell in the lot I believe this was taken after the applicant had placed a new shell there are some spotty areas on the site um there's a condition that we requested the applicant fill in and make consist in the surface on the site um which you can see in the bottom left and to an extent in the bottom right photos um again you can see the enclosure in the top left that's the area at the southwest side of the site that contains the portable toilet and some other uh surface areas of the site staff finds that the applicant has met the burden of approval for the conditional use permit but finds that amended conditions pertaining to distancing between the uses the commercial and the residential uses that are on the lot lot surfacing and buffer improvements should be considered for any long-term issuance of this youth certificate um during previous publications of this report staff had recommended denial of the sidewalk we did speak with the fdot a few weeks back there are some significant um issues that they they face at the front of this site that had been recognized in the original staff report um but they were mostly financial and typically Financial concerns alone are not the basis for recommendation for approval of a variance um the concerns that were shared related to improvements related to the um retaining wall located at the front of the site that staff was recommending that the sidewalk be extended to and also issues related to easements that might need to be established on the applicants property should the easement be provided to the fdot on the basis of that um staff is recommending a variance that tracks with the approval condition for the for the case for the conditional use permit case which would limit it to five years um which is what we are also recommending for the approval of the parking lot itself it be limited to a 5year approval part of the basis of that is to keep it consistent with other parking lots in the area there are other lots that have been approved for a 5-year period we would like to keep it consistent with the other ones in the vicinity staff does recommend denial of the portion of variance case number 23068 that pertains to The Pedestrian Frontage improvements there are very limited improvements that would need to be made along the Gulf Boulevard Frontage of the site these include um limited Landscaping um one pedestrian amenity and they're they're fairly Limited in scope and I don't find that they would po pose a hardship to the applicant if required staff recommends approval of conditional use permit number 23069 with 20 conditions staff recommends approval of variance number 23068 as it pertains to the sidewalk improvements and denial of the variance as it pertains to The Pedestrian Frontage improvements I just briefly wanted to go through the conditions um as I mentioned before a commercial parking lot is a primary use of the lot so is a multifam development and we would like to make it clear that any approval for the use of this lot is a primary use should there be any kind of future Redevelopment of this lot it would require for the parking lot to be discontinued that's condition number one uh previously it had been four spaces that staff had recommended be retained for residents of the um of the residents that are currently existing on the side we are recommending that the eight spaces that have but the residents uh not be used for commercial parking commercial parking would be allowed in the 20 spaces that line the perimeter of the lot recommending hours of operation be sunrise to 30 minutes after Sunset the applicant shall maintain and clean the beach access west of the property each day the lot shall be used for standard passenger vehicles only there shall not be any storage of boats RVs or so on lot shall be closed to all non-tenant guest or owner Vehicles after Sunset excepting cases of emergency a lot attendant shall be present at all times the lot is operating there shall be no no additional lighting that is installed to operate the use signage shall be maintained to indicate when the lot is opened or closed and removed when not operating there shall be a maximum of two signs and two trash receptacles may be must be provided on site and maintained by the applicant I wanted to um propose a a potential edit to what is in your staff report in the resolution for condition number 11 it's the same intent and the original intent was that the approval of the use and the companion sidewalk variances be limited to 5 years I just did want to propose a condition that provides a little bit more justification to that the applicant shall reapply five years from date of the development order due to potential impacts to AB budding residences surrounding area changes and development requirements for the 10-ft sidewalk such application shall be made made no later than 180 days prior to the hund prior to the 5-year Mark um that's just to provide more clarification and that the limitation would be for the 5 years that's recommended by staff condition 12 the applicant shall supply pedestrian easement of the city or fdot choose to expand the Gul Boulevard sidewalk within the subsequent 5 years condition 13 the variants for the sidewalk shall expire upon Redevelopment or discontinuation of the use should the applicant choose to redevelop the lot themselves or should someone purchase and redevelop the lot they would still be responsible for the 10-ft sidewalk the surface Improvement shall be made to provide distinct reasonably complete coverage of shell drought tolerant sod or other approved material where required this would apply for the whole lot outside of the buffers buffer Improvement shall be made within 90 days of conditional use permit approval the applicant shall construct a permanent restroom within 180 days of approval to be made available for customers I didn't want to provide a note on that in just just a moment uh going on to licensing and monitoring requirements the property shall be maintained with an active BTR an uncured code violation or multiple cured code violations related to the shoes shall automatically require this use to be returned to the city commission and then the conditions that we recommend for any conditional use permit any violation of the conditions herein will allow the city commission to resend approval of this use and the city commission may review periodically to ensure that the conditions are being followed as I mentioned before this use has previously been to the city commission at the time staff had recommended that the applicant construct a sidewalk to the beach along the northern side of 51st Avenue and provide a Crossing from the property that would require the removal of some parking spaces that are currently in the RightWay on the Northern side of 51st Avenue at the time the city commission had removed that condition as a result of that I did not add it it is in your staff report if it is something that you're considering there is a recommended condition I also wanted to mention in lie of condition number 16 there is no code requirement that the applicant provide any kind of toilet facilities for guest customers on this lot they have maintained a portable toilet since 2018 while the use was operating at the previous approval the city commission had requested that the applicant install a portable toilet when the sewer moratorium had been lifted the use approval had expired right around the time that the sewer moratorium was lifted so the applicant NE never did construct that um portable toilet or sorry that permanent toilet um so in lie of condition number 16 the city commission does not need to require a toilet at all on the site if you would like to allow for them to continue to maintain the portable toilet that's also an option I did include the condition that it be made permanent due to the recommendation of the previous City commission again staff recommends a motion to approve resolution 2023-24 and a motion to approve variant 2020 23068 as it pertains to the sidewalk improvements and deny variance 23068 as it pains to The Pedestrian Frontage improvements as I mentioned before we do have the agent for the application present I believe we do also have the owners present as well if you have any questions for me now or after they speak I'd be happy to answer them thank you Brandon do we have any questions for Brandon I have a quick one um you were going pretty fast on the parking spaces you mentioned four for residents and eight that I kind of got lost on that part no problem I'll get back to the site plan so there are eight parking spaces that abut the residents in the in the top left hand side of that survey on the screen there and then there are 20 spaces along the perimeter of the lot I would ask that the eight spaces around the residence be maintained for either residents or for guests of the residents and that the 20 around the perimeter be maintained for commercial parking got it thank you what's the reasoning for restricting them there three units generally you allow one parking spot per unit you've got a fourth one for guest parking why restrict them to eth with this be sorry uh with this being both a commercial and a residential use I would like to provide especially with this being a long-term approval just more more physical buffering between the two uses the commercial and the the residential uses on the lad but it's their own property it's not like it's the neighbor's property that we're protecting right no um that that's correct um it's you know the re was really just a recommendation to provide that that physical separation of of guests um there is a recommendation that there be a lot of tendon on site at all times so if you know the commission finds that there can be an adequate separation with those for spaces retain that's that's fine thank you I have a question um is so how do you separate primary and secondary uses um there currently is residents living MH so does that become secondary not necessarily and it's primary uses and secondary uses at least as they're laid out in the future land use element typically pertain to the either the purpose intent of the of the district or the highest and best use now in this case a commercial parking lot even though it's not listed in the future land use element it is considered a primary use but there's nothing that's specifically prohibits two primary uses on a lot this being in the large resort District both residential and temporary lodging are considered primary uses but they can still be mixed on one site under certain instances so it's more dealing with the um whether they can exist separate from another use a secondary use would require another use be present on the site in order to be approved um a primary use doesn't necessarily need to have that other Prim AR use present to be approved so in this particular case we would have two primary uses correct and it's the the first condition is a recommendation that the parking lot remain considered a primary use so that in the future if there is any kind of Redevelopment of the site if they wish to reestablish a parking lot it would need to be considered in the context of the new use on the site okay mayor may I ask Brandon a quick question a couple of questions um the residential is that's that's also owned by the applicant correct correct are these rental units I believe they are long-term rental units okay so if there were any code violations in this commercial parking lot let's say a car left overnight and the alarm goes off what would be the tenants recourse a complaint to the city like any other file a code call a code enforcement code enforcement the sheriff after hours so call code enforcement on your landlord okay and I always use the app as well pardon me you can always use the app as well or the app yes uh the other question is you're familiar with the Land Development regulations correct yes in section uh division four is the conditional use permit section correct correct and section 4.9 uh which is entitled attachment of conditions with approval um it has a um it has it has a phrase in there which says specifying the duration of the permit and our hours of operation as one of a list of types of things that you as a professional planner would put together in a situation where you have a commercial parking lot and a residential use correct correct and it it it does go on to say that there needs to be some basis for the set of that duration just like any condition that would apply to this law and that was the reason for that amended condition 11 that I read into the record earlier um just providing the basis for it the maintenance of the special area plan and the potential mitigation of any residential concerns that might arise in the future okay thank you thank you how many I still have some questions um how many prior code violations and and I'm talking about residents complaining because I know it could be I'm listening to what our City attorney is saying how difficult it is for someone who's renting a property to have to tell on their landlord um in in the risk of losing uh their rental um or lease um has there been issues in the past because of this there was a call made to code enforcement a few months ago pertaining to um a situation on the presidents itself um it was not substantiated it was closed out uh there were multiple calls pertaining to operation without a permit nothing related to the actual lot itself but but operating without a permit in place those have been closed out uh they did receive a temporary use permit after those cases were were put in um we did receive a complaint two weeks ago uh that they were operating over the weekend but we did have staff stop out this preceding weekend and they were not operating at least while we we were there so so from the time from 2018 from the original um cup um and then the four temporary uses do we have a number of how many violations have happened uh there were three code enforcement complaints since 2015 all uh three of them proceeded they were in the last 18 months um like I mentioned there was one that was related to substandard Property Maintenance it was closed out without action the other two related to operation without permit um they were both in 2023 and the applicant did obtain a temporary use permit after those complaints so they they were brought into compliance there aren't any open uh violations on the property currently okay um and then a question on the the shelling because I I know I think something that I had read before in the packet um and you showed one of the pictures um where they did put some more shelling but maybe not as complete m from what I've read in ordinances if a property owner homeowner wants to Shell their driveway is that something that we allow uh typically no it's allowed under very specific instances um off premise supplemental parking in the Gul Boulevard Redevelopment district is one of the cases where it's allowed um but typically for a to meet parking requirements it is not permitted under very specific C circumstances it's allowed okay and the reason I asked this is because shelling to me and from what I've I've learned um isn't pervious becomes it doesn't percolate eventually right when it gets compacted over long periods of time which in the case which you can tell in the picture it's not going to percolate any more water it's it's the same as having a non- perious um um area and I know from our the report it says the Cal the engineers waiting for calculations is this stuff that's going to be done before um it could be operational um to show that yes it's not going to be puddling water or there's going to be drainage yeah absolutely any surface improvements the engineer would want to look at just to make sure that the site can hold water that is part of the semi-permeable standards that the site retain its own water it doesn't cause runoff into the right of way so that is something that they would look at if they were to expand I mentioned that there are alternatives they could use drought Toler and sod um if they wanted to use permeable pavers those are other conditions where they may not actually be improve you know increasing the uh impermeability of the site so there are alternatives um if they choose to use shell that would be something the engineer would look at okay thank you any other questions for Brandon I've got I've got a question Brandon um based on the size of that property being in the large resort District if it was to redevelop what could it redevelop to um I believe it's let's say 38 acres is what I have on file it's 15 units per acre so they could develop about five residential units if they wanted wanted to redevelop um they would be allowed to have up to 50 units per AC or if the site could reasonably support that um I'm not sure but that would be in terms of temporary lodging and uh that would be with a conditional use permit by right they would be allowed up to 30 units per acre so that would work out to be about 11 units for the property if if they could accommodate it with with setbacks and parking and all the other requirements okay thank you and actually have one more question is there any other property in the city of St P Beach that has a similar scenario where there's two primary uses one being residential and one being of commercial use in terms of a permanent operation I'm not aware of any we do have one other commercial parking lot in the Gulf Boulevard Redevelopment District but it's operating under a temporary approval like the applicant has been for some time now um just parking though right correct um they're they're a shopping center for example can be comprised of multiple primary uses where they have commercial and office which are usually held out as different um different uses but for anything where there's a residence with a parking lot or a residence with a commercial de development right on that property I'm not familiar with any usually they're out parel outk thank you Brandon thank you would the applicant like to come forward Mr disco good evening for the record my name is Tim Driscoll my office is at 146 2 Street North sweet 310 in St Petersburg Florida uh thank you for allowing me to come before you and present this application uh this is as uh and I and I want to thank Brandon uh initially he's been uh very easy to work with and he's responded to all of our questions and I appreciate his responsiveness and you you've got a gem of an employee there and I also want to thank Mr Dickman for taking my call last week to discuss this item uh so it is a conditional use approval this is one of the permitted conditional uses under 35.3 B3 and it's a variance application from the requirements of uh 3910 and we've asked for a variance from the the entire section I think Brandon laid out pretty clearly that there are two different elements in that section the first subsection a is the 10-ft sidewalk requirement and uh staff is supporting that application in subsection B it's that there's a landscaping requirement we've actually asked for uh variance from that in the amenity requirement but I understand that my client already meets the Landscaping requirement with with the exception of planting maybe one additional Tree on the western boundary and removing an invasive uh Brazilian pepper so we're okay with the staff's uh recommendation as to that we do think that the amenity requirement is is Harsh because when you look at the overall situation there this particular use does not contribute in any way to the traffic pedestrian traffic on that sidewalk it is completely Superfluous all of this is is a beach parking lot that where all the traffic goes towards the beach all of the other uses in that vicinity all have their own parking lots so this is not being used for that it's strictly a beach parking lot and of course for the tenants on the property itself Mr Driscoll if you don't mind which specific condition are you referring to by number they'll just allow us to more easily identify it well if it'll help to I prepared an exhibit to uh address the give me one second certainly sir I'm prepared an exhibit is it okay if I hand these out to the commission yes please I've got several of them I'll keep if you'll leave a copy with the city clerk and then City attorney thank you I got I got don't worry pass it down for you so I've prepared this to assist the Commission in reviewing the conditions that we have some issues with and I'll just jump right to that I did want to introduce my clients uh they're here as well it's uh Chris tacticos this is truly a mom and pop organization even though it's a hattech LLC it's these two folks right here they are the owners and they're The Operators um so going through and I think you asked about the specific condition I was talking about um the uh variance is not included Within These conditions so that's why it's it's being because it's a separate vote I just wanted to make it clear that we are asking for a variance from the entire requirements of 39.1 and I'll explain more about that but if if the commission's approval of the variance is for the variance from subsection a which is the 10- foot sidewalk uh and the variance and and no variance other than not granting the variance on the amenity we understand that but I would submit to you that there really is no reason for that amenity because there is no use of that sidewalk occasioned by this property and I have some photographs I'd like to show you as well but just to go through these uh conditions that I handed out just so you know what we're asking for now this is based on a resolution that was provided to me uh last week and so I don't know if the resolution has been amended because what was shown on the screen was a little bit different just in the wording of some of them so some of that may be ameliorated by some of the language that was on the screen but in terms of the written resolution that we received we have concerns number one over the parking spaces that are reserved for the residents and their guests we uh prior approval of this and I'd like to put a copy of the prior conditional use in the record as well I have a copy of that with me uh the prior approval was for 21 through 24 four Lots be dedicated to the residents and so we're asking for that again and as you pointed out May in your questioning it's it's four unit or three units one for each and an extra and their their history has been that each of those residents only has one car and that the four have been adequate obviously they would still be able to use the other spaces but we don't want to have to reserve them specifically for them and allow the public to use those as well the prior conditional use looking at number three there uh the prior conditional use was for 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. I know staff is asking for sunrise to sunset we would prefer the 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. that has been historically the the the time period there um this as you as you've heard this conditional use has been an operation since 2018 and there have been no issues with that time period so we're asking for that I didn't see this language in what Brandon presented so I don't know if there's still a uh a section in there that talks about unforeseeable overnight parking of vehicles essentially and we just want to make sure that the the approval allows for the occasional situation where somebody maybe leaves their car overnight they they're out drinking at one of the bars or something or uh there might be some reason that they may need to leave it overnight so I just asked that we strike the the language about overnight just say for except for unusual circumstances a lot shall be closed all those resident Vehicles after closing um a number seven and again I didn't see that up on what Brandon had on the screen uh and he said his language was that there' be a lot of tenant while it's open and we're fine with that uh we just want to make it clear that once the lot is full uh sometimes Mr tacticos goes home he's done and then the people let themselves out and they exit the property on their own he doesn't sit there and monitor parked cars all day he takes off and leaves it there um and then number 11 this is this is a a real sticking Point uh for us the 5-year limitation we ask for a permanent conditional use so that they can continue to maintain this without having to seek approval every several years and I know that the City attorney talked about section 4.9 but if you look at section 4.9 you have to recognize that it says the city commission may attach such conditions to a conditional use approval as are necessary to carry out the purposes of the comprehensive plan any adopted special area plan in these regulations and to prevent or minimize adverse effects upon other property in the neighborhood so in order for you to impose and it does have the condition of duration of the permit hours of operation you would have to make some finding that there's a a possible adverse effect or it's inconsistent with the comprehensive plan or some other type of finding that would support limiting the duration of the conditional use and I would point out to you that there is nothing in the code that allows you to limit the duration of a variance if a variance is Justified the variance should be granted and I think that's really what staff is recommending is that you limit the variance on this 10-ft sidewalk and I think I can assuage your concerns about that because this property is not going to be a parking lot forever I mean I think that's pretty clear you asked about possible development on this site somebody's going to develop the site it probably is not going to be my clients but they're not going to continue to to operate this for a very long time but they don't want to be tied to just 5 years and have to come back through this and do this exercise every 5 years you're talking about a very small scale 28 space parking lot it is a very unobtrusive type of use it is low intensity use and they have had a history as you've heard there are no code violations that have ever been prosecuted to success so they've had a history of operating as good operators and I would submit to you that any emails that you've gotten uh where those people are not present should not be considered it's not a popularity contest you know your decision has to be based on the record and the evidence so you should disregard those comments from folks that are not here to testify and and be cross-examined uh as to whatever their uh concerns are and with respect to going through the remaining condition changes that I've requested if you look at um and I didn't keep you a copy so but I know we have extra copies up there I believe so if you can get one of those Madam clerk I'd appreciate it at the end um the condition on number 12 about retaining a possible easement there's nothing in the code that requires that easement there's no code provision that would give you the authority to do that I would submit to you that it would be an exaction and a taking of my client's property to require them to uh provide that easement certainly if there come becomes a circumstance where the dot and and the city has no control over that way that's a state road so if the dot decides they want to expand it or the city wants to expand it you still have to get permission from the do to do that including expanding the sidewalks those are all part of the do's property so if that ever occurs you can certainly reach out to the property owners and find out if they're willing to Grant variants or easements so if there's an expansion necessary and at that time if the city wanted to do that you could do that I don't think you need to make any condition of this particular approval and then on 13 you will see that the staff in this condition has built in an expiration if there are changes at the property so that covers the city with respect to whatever might occur there if there's Redevelopment this issue may come back up and you may have to look at the expansion of the sidewalk at that point but there's no reason to already decide that within five years we're going to have to do that so we've asked to strike the fiveyear provision and then finally Brandon talked to you about the the permanent uh restroom and he offered you the alternate condition we're fine with the alternate condition we certainly don't think that there's any justification legally for the city to impose upon these folks to build a restroom when there's no code provision that requires it they are technically not even required to have the portalet they do like to have the portable toilet and they do maintain it well they have a professional service that does that for them so we are ask we're asking that they would be allowed to continue that it does provide an amenity for the operator when they're there as well from a conditional use standpoint the law says that if a property owner comes before the city and presents facts that demonstrate that they're entitled to the conditional use the burden then shifts to the city to prove why they're not entitled to it so I think that based on the staff report and based on the information that I provided and will continue to provide you as I go through my comments I think that they have already presented sufficient evidence to show that they are entitled to the conditional use so if you were to deny it for any reason you'd have to have uh legal reasons to do that if you're imposing conditions there has to be some evidence to support the imposition of those conditions as well so I would caution you on some of the ones that I've specifically asked about and suggest to you that the more defensible position that the city would take would be to include the conditions as amended in the presentation that I've given you I've kind of jumped around so let me just make sure I don't miss anything one of the one of the justifications for the variance to the sidewalk requirement is that there is a retaining wall there there just isn't enough space to get a 10-ft sidewalk in there and so that would create uh an intense hardship on my clients I have some photographs that I can and hopefully put up on the uhhe one more time 90 degrees 90 degrees the other way there you go got this way all right that's a that's a picture overall of the the property some of these are very similar to what Brandon showed but there's a couple I just want to make sure you you've had an opportunity to look at you can see it's it's fairly wellmaintained it's it is an impious parking lot I do want to point out that the land use plan Brandon didn't mention in his presentation but the staff report shows that this particular proposal meets two primary conditions our policies of your land use plan one of them is to have pervious surface parking areas within the city so this is accomplished by this particular use I know there's some issue about compaction sometimes that does occur but as you add throughout the life cycle of a shell parking lot you can improve that pervious nature and secondly is for there to be parking in the city city is always looking for parking that is one of your policies in your comprehensive plan so that's why this particular application meets and helps to further the goals and policies of your of your land use plan here's some of the landscaping and you can see that they have done a really nice job of taking care of the property and here's there's wheel stops car stops bumper stops at every parking space excuse me is that current pictures just so that that I know is that what it looks like today taking within the last um probably before the last the hearing in January so maybe within 90 days something like that and here are there's another view this is what the residential property and the four residential Le designated spaces this is a view to the neighbor on the south this shows the uh outdoor shower and the Tenant parking signs that they've added and this is a view towards Golf Boulevard I believe that's towards Golf Boulevard and again another shot with the tenant signs and then here is a view of some of the Landscaping that they've added and they they intend to add more Landscaping they're trying to make the site as uh beautiful as they can here's a picture that shows the sidewalk in front and as you can see they got they have a retaining wall to the left of these plants there's a hydrant there there are other utilities there so if the do even allowed any work in there it would be quite extensive and I think you can see that that creates a potential hardship on the uh property owner and I want to show you just a couple more photos this and I apologize for the print quality on that that's the view down the block towards the beach you can see the beach access that's used by this property and the the patrons that park there this is the condominium uh that is to the west of it and you can see the beach beach access from the other direction there and then finally the beach access uh that goes all the way out to the beach and there's a big wide expansive Beach out there I did want to show you a couple of the nearby parking lot so you can see that this is this parking lot is consistent with what's in the area this is the serata parking lot across the street uh it's quite substantially larger this is a much less obtrusive parking lot that my clients have and you can see that this is exactly the same construction with the mix of grass sod and shell and here's another shot of it and then another you can see the the amount of grass and how the cars are parked on grass they're parked on shell so you have that mix my client has taken great steps to try to provide for a shell Drive area even though some of the cars will be parking on grass and again these are all this this parking lot has been operating for a long time without any uh runoff issues of any kind even during some of the storms that we've had since 2018 and this just shows the uh the sign showing that that is a serata parking lot I do want to show you just a couple of pictures this is a property that's further south on Golf Boulevard this is the 5,000 golf U Hotel property there you can see again the exact same construction of a parking lot very similar to the one that my client has you see they also have a retaining wall and again they have the substandard uh sidewalk as well and you can see that that's pretty pervasive in that area here's one final shot of that particular parking lot and again you can see it's a mix of grass and some shell and then finally I just want to run down a few photographs of the sidewalks up and down um Gul Boulevard and you can see even there the with the new sunrunner spot there's no widened sidewalk you can see all the resorts all up and down they all have the same existing type sidewalk that also borders my pl's property and I would submit to you that each of these uses has much more of an impact on that sidewalk than my client will because there people just don't go out to that sidewalk uh when they Park in this small parking lot and there's another one I just got a couple more sorry to inundate you with these but I do want to make sure that the record is complete with these types of exhibits and you can see up and down uh Golf Boulevard there are a number of these and they're all the same the sidewalk are very similar if not exactly the same up and down Golf Boulevard so if you look at that and you compare it to what my client is doing you can see that they're consistent with it I do want to make sure that the record includes all of the items that we submitted so I'm going to submit this to the city clerk as well this is our applications and I did want to make make sure that we included in the record the prior conditional use where the city commission at that time found that we met all the criteria for an approval the conditions some of the conditions were the same some are different than what staff is asking for now it was approved and I'd like to enter that into the record as well it was approved as a uh 9 to9 operation which was what we're asking for again and if you look at the the sidewalk standard that's set forth in um section 3910 it says a 10-ft sidewalk shall be constructed that will allow for safe un constructed and efficient pedestrian flow in the potential for sidewalk cafes and outdoor eating areas as appropriate and you can see that when that was adopted the idea was that if you redeveloped one of these large Resorts you might want to have or if you do some other type of commercial ra building type of construction then you might want to have an outdoor cafe or something and use that sidewalk so then you have a reason for the wider sidewalk uh this is not the type of development I think that was envisioned when that happened there may be a day when there is more intense development on this site and at that time as I've said the city can come back and try to address that issue at that time so with that I would uh ask that if uh there are speakers I'd be given an opportunity to rebut but uh we believe that you should Grant the conditional use I don't believe that you should limit it to 5 years it should be permanent I think you should Grant the variance as to the sidewalk requirement and the amenity requirement and I'm I'm ready to answer any questions you may have thank you Mr Driscoll do we have any questions for Mr Driscoll mayor I have a few questions certainly um Mr Drell who whose photographs were those are those yours uh my client took those your client took those photographs okay um do you have any experts here here that can substantiate um for example the assertion that um this use will have no impact on the sidewalk no no expert here no okay do you have any experts here uh relating to uh parking spaces for residential use in other words how many parking spaces are required per dwelling unit no okay um do you have any experts here to apply on the need or the not need for landscaping no okay do you have any experts here to aine on the use of shell and its compactness and Water Management no okay and do you have any experts here that can opine to using the 10- foot sidewalk as a Outdoor Cafe no so in other words you would agree that your job here as a lawyer is to make legal arguments only and that you cannot offer competent substantial evidence is that a true statement no that is not it's not a true statement No I can present competent substantial evidence in my testimony and the exhibits that I provide uh you don't have to be an expert to provide competent substantial evidence and all of those items that you pointed out an expert testimony is not necessary in order to show the facts that this particular development does not impact the sidewalk that the there is no runoff off my testimony is sufficient to establish that that there is no runoff from this site and that the compaction is not an issue in this particular site but you do understand that you are not an expert in these areas and you cannot offer expert testimony in those areas I do acknowledge that yes you're correct sir thank you thank you Mr drll anything else okay thank you I question excuse me I was just thanking you for answering the city attorney's questions the commission may have further questions and so let's give somebody else an opportunity and maybe they'll answer some of the questions so why don't we start on this in and and work our way down I I don't have any questions for the applicant I have a question um perhaps for staff or the City attorney does the uh does the conditional use run with the property or with the owner so it runs with the property but again uh the code legisl which was adopted allows for you to establish time limits um in order to um address any uh noxious uses or incompatibilities so if we if it's if it if it is granted it could be sold as a parking lot down the road it could be sold as a parking lot and it could perhaps I'm not even sure but it possibly could be split where someone could buy the residential part and then they would have a commercial parking lot next to that it wouldn't be the same owner okay that's it thank you go ahead that was one of the questions I had um how how long has your client owned the property they bought it in 2005 okay and I've noticed there's been for sale by owner sign out there over the years um is it currently for sale by owner I don't know the answer to that do you is it for sale right now the property okay yeah they would like to sell it to someone to develop it okay they do not have any intention of selling it as a commercial parking lot but obviously as the City attorney said if they did sell it someone could continue to operate whatever conditional use is approved so what are they currently selling it as they're trying to sell it as a developable property which is really its highest and best use clearly this is not the highest and best use for this particular property this generates very little income this is a very low volume type of use they the most money they make is during the holiday season or fourth of July those kinds of events but otherwise it's it's it's not some big Revenue generator further questions thank you um a couple of questions um because you entered into the record um and I'm not sure if we have a copy of that um the prior conditional use application that was approved right um so and and I you only reference the 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. time um but you also mentioned several times that this is strictly used for the beach goers right that that's why no one's walking in the sidewalk and so forth so our beach is operable sunrise to sunset so why wouldn't um the parking lot be com the same you know why 9 to9 that I don't quite understand well that's that's like I said that was the way it was approved before it just gives them some more flexibility for people to get their car sometimes people come in the summer obviously 9:00 is basically after Sunset yes other times of the year it might be dark but it's to give them more time for people to get their cars out of there that's all okay CU um I mean we do have sunsets sometimes close to 6:00 p.m. um so I just wanted to put that out there because our is not open on those times um the other thing I saw and some of those pictures I could tell were not recent um I mean I saw two people walking on the sidewalk that were still wearing their covid mask and there's construction going on in that part of the the street that's not currently happening so I know that's not within those 90 days but the fact that there is somebody walking there tells me that it is being used coming from the north to the South so I don't I don't see um why we wouldn't um and maybe we can deliberate this later but where you're getting that the 10 foot isn't needed some of the pictures you're bringing up our developments that are um up and coming one that was approved that we are requesting 10- foot sidewalks um not to mention that I participated in more than one but even last week on what pelis for and fdot are asking for which is 10- foot sidewalks uh for safety um with the initiative of vision zero so I I don't see why your stretch wouldn't be important um so I I don't know if you know that that that's currently what's happening it's not something in the future but it's something that's being discussed today um let's give them an opportunity to answer please I could just respond to that if there's a person in the picture that's coming in across the sidewalk that's in front of my client's property they're not coming from my client's property they're just citizens walking by if you're going to impose a restriction on a property owner that property has to contribute to the reason for that and this property is not contributing in any way to a 10- foot the ne necessity of a 10-ft sidewalk because people are not even going in that direction from this property those are people that are just walking by from other properties to other properties they're not stopping at this property that's just not happening I'm not going to say it's never happens but that is not the the common situation and therefore to impose that type of a condition or require that type of a sidewalk construction would be an imposition and an exaction against this property that's not justified by the facts it's just not there and there's been no evidence presented to you that would indicate that this sidewalk is necessary to further this development that section was adopted for when a resort is improved and that is going to contribute to the traffic in front of that Resort that's what that was there for and that's what that should be implemented for I understand that the city has an overall goal of widening That Sidewalk but you have to tread very carefully in imposing that on the neighboring Property Owners well it is a conditional use so and that would be an amenity for the community um another question on one of the pictures you had or you emphasized that there was a shower um so this shower is available for people who are coming from the beach right off of a a residential primary use yes so people can come up to that residents at that distance who are using it as a commercial parking lot if they're if they're a patron of the parking lot that's there for their their use as well so they have access then to or proximity to that other primary use yes which is also owned by the same owner and so they can control the behavior of the people in involved as long as the owner is still there and not gone home because the parking is full correct that's correct thank you another question on the potable um portable toilet during storms um is that portable toilet removed I can't answer that no they they keep it there is it anchored I don't know have check there's there's a service that maintains it so I think they rely on them yeah okay but fences can go during a hurricane so my question then next would be to the city as to whether um portable toilets have to be and I'm pretty sure they are have to be removed toward storms and is that included as part of this application I've got oh go ahead I'm sorry it's not specific although if if the commission were to recommend approve or recommend a portable toilet in live of the permanent that would absolutely be something worth including so okay um so Brandon and just to make sure for because from what I've seen when any were never a resident including myself when I've had um remodeled in in my home and especially that we've had many storms we were required to move those um portable toilets so that's why I'm asking is it required in this case as well it's it's not specified in the code and and typically portable toilets are allowed for special events under a Land Development code they're not something that you would require for a use long term so that the regulations of them are fairly limited they're they for special events primarily um but if you were to allow one on this site um you could impose other conditions that are appropriate for the welfare because they're asking for permanent so correct I did want to mention that the the condition that staff drafted as a consideration in the staff report would have portable um toilets that are made permanent are actually regulated by the Department of Health um so they would need to go through the permitting with them if they were to actually get a permanent portable toilet so there might be other standards that they have to comply with I believe they have a company that handles the portable toilet for them so that might be something that they're more familiar with but they may have other standards over and above even what are is in our Land Development code for that toilet okay and just to clarify so if if this were to move as not a permanent restroom facility but portable um is that requirement that you're just mentioning about going to houseal something that is to be done before the operation of of it as a commercial parking lot it could be um the permanent toilet what staff drafted for the that was in the resolution not the alternative condition was that they'd be provided 180 days so that would allow for the portable toilet to remain for 6 months and then they would need to have the permanent toilet constructed if they're permitted to retain the portable toilet for the use of the property um there are other conditions that you know or other elements of that that you would definitely want to consider and having them remove it during a hurricane is you know a good one um having them maintain it at at the frequency they've been maintaining it we have not received any complaints about any issues with the toilet in the several years that it's been there um but just ensuring that they keep it up to to spec is is important okay thank you Mr dral I think we may have a couple more questions for you commissioner yeah just one quick one um and it's really for the owners you're probably going to have to ask them so in your three residents or apartment units whatever they are there are those mainly single occupants are we talking couples families I think they're all single occupants right single like single bedroom type places uh one is a two bedroom but it's aing one bedroom is an office the other is bedroom single may I interrupt for a moment and I'm just why don't you come um Mr Driscoll the fair housing act really shouldn't we be discussing the makeup of tenants yeah it it's they're they're just individuals I'm only asking in relation to parking spaces we can talk numbers of individuals many num we talking about there's yeah there's three bedrooms sorry to interrupt you may uh three bedrooms with one occupant in each is that correct two three one one is a studio so really yeah but that's a one bedroom oh yes yes so with three occupants is that correct three three occupants yes thank you right yes one's that's all and these are these are long-term tenants they're not short-term right they're they're leas tenants yes one year leases any further questions from Mr Driscoll before we allow him to depart thank you sir thank you Mr Mayor mayor could I make one comment please certainly please I have an answer to the the question about uh whether toilets have to be removed and I thought there was a section there's a section in the Florida building code uh section 111 36B that all portable toilet facilities shall be removed or secured within a permanent structure in the event of a hurricane watch that's under the Florida building code thank you thank you Mr city manager city clerk do we have any audience comments we have Kim Peterson if you'll please state your name and address for the record my name is Kim Peterson I live at 8201 33rd Avenue uh St Petersburg I'm one of the owners of the GOL Beach Resort uh at 140 51st Avenue West also the vice president of the board and I'm with two other owners and past board members do you want their names I do not you have your three minutes sir please do not you have your three minutes and it's counting down so all right our concern is the traffic that this is going to create for people coming and going on that street um there's issues with the beach traffic walking down the middle of the street has caused issues for our our guests at the resort um there's seven spots now along the street that are paid spots if you're going to allow the parking lot our recommendation would be that that somehow is partitioned off and those parking spots are removed and that becomes a walkway for the people because there could be as many as 80 to 100 people a day coming up and down through there depending on how many people are in a car um as it is now a lot of people just want to walk down the middle of the street and there's no control over that uh toilet problems I'm glad that's being addressed because we have had people come try to use toilets at our Resort off of the beach have used the bushes for their bathroom it's not a little frustrating but I think from a safety point of view we need to really control what's going on on that street it's a short Street there's people going to Krabby bills there's people going to our Resort and there's one private residence halfway down there also um so if you could do a do a barrier and a sidewalk somewhere where those parking spots are we wouldn't have a problem with it it is a plus to have Beach parking so um we got at least that way if you if you move the uh cars out of the parking area then there's at least a place for two cars to pass each other in the street without running into pedestrians and that's our biggest concern thank you sir thank you that's all I had okay thank you with that we will close unless there's any further questions for the applicant or for staff certainly very I just want to say that um it sounds like what the gentleman was requesting is some kind of amenity change by the city and so that wouldn't be part of our application and we do not believe that we contribute significantly to the traffic that's in that area so we don't think that any further conditions are warranted uh in that regard that's all I have thank you very much for your thank you Mr Drisco I do have a question on um excuse me Mr Drisco not for not for the city not for okay um are those spaces that was mentioned um from Mr Peterson uh City spaces yes okay so there's eight SE metered um spaces I'm not sure of the number but they are metered spaces okay okay thank you oh and another question because I know it was into the record was the but I don't have it so I'm not sure if it's on that one the conditional use application prior was that the one that re that was asked or um was removed of putting that sidewalk on the North End was that part of that particular application or was that was just a temporary application do any of you remember or maybe you do that had been a recommendation for the 2018 conditional use permit it was not adopted though it was not included in the resolution it was a recommended condition it was recommended right thank you Brandon I've got a question for you before you sit down um is it possible or could it be possible and what would the process be like to split that property um and have the residential and then have the parking lot because of the amount of the lot that would need to be retained for the residential it it would be at least half of the property um I I I guess it could possibly be done but it would be very limited and how much of the lot would remain for the commercial portion of it um they have three units there currently and they would be allowed five units based on the parcel size so probably about half of the lot would need to be retained in the split for the and there are other considerations that setbacks and other things lot coverage so I I don't know if it could viably be done but it it would they would severely limit the amount of lot that could be used for commercial parking if they split it okay thank you Brandon before you go go ahead I just want to make sure we're crystal clear on the sidewalk issue all right um so at 5 years I want to make sure I understand this if F do says we want we want them to expand the sidewalk then they have to according to the the condition the request would be um just like the former approval there there was a time limitation on it and that was in the former approval the 2018 approval it was for the conditional use permit and they had also applied for the sidewalk they did receive a variance for it then as well so at the end of the the 5 years the conditional use permit would go away that's based on what staff drafted if they wanted to come back and request it again they could choose to build the sidewalk or they could choose to ask for another variance but it it wouldn't automatically trigger that requirement in five years it would just be if if they came back got it thank you before you sit down can what kind what type of housing is that is that multif family or it's considered multif family at three three units okay thank you I have one more question for you as well Brandon the variance does is is the variance as the conditional use does it go with the property or does it go with the use or does it go with the owner in other words if if they sell the property in four years and the and the new owners want to redevelop it does that sidewalk variance still in effect or does that go away at some point if it changes hands or changes use it does like the conditional use permit typically run with the land um I believe the applicants agent mentioned that you know under there was a condition in there that um if the use of the property were to change or if there were to be a Redevelopment even to the same use there is a condition that the developer would be responsible for the 10-ft sidewalk there there is some administrative approval to reduce that but they would be eligible or responsible for whatever that is at that point um I think St staff was staff's recommendation was for the 5year limitation on this use which would tie in the variance but if they sold the property a year from now um and it were to be used under this cover by the new owner um whether it's five years or whether it's permanent until development they would be a they would not be responsible for the sidewalk based on what's drafted um really all staff was recommending was a a year limitation on it it wouldn't affect anything to do with ownership um except that if there Redevelopment of the use thank you thank you any further questions for staff of the applicant with that we will close the Quasi judicial part of the hearing and we will move on to deliberations comments the only comment I want to put out there I mean it's in his rebuttal uh Council made an assertion that this gener no traffic or some assertion like that and he's aine that he's not a traffic [Applause] expert all right no statements somebody would like to make a motion are we not going to discuss this well I asked if you guys want to discuss it nobody said anything so well I I mean I guess my question to the commission um is how would you like to go about it do you want to go through each condition I see a lot of things I do want to discuss because um I don't I do not want something that is permanent because there's too many question marks for me on this um and you know the fact that someone can purchase this property and continue to use it even the way that it is indefinitely um and we don't know the owner of the future um I doesn't settle very well with me do you consider 5 years permanent um no I they're ask they were saying that they wanted uh so sure but the staff's recommendation is 5 years and we could easily adopt the staff's recommendation for the condition additionally we could also for example modify it to say we can do a five-year approval with the administrative approval at the end as long as the applicant doesn't have any code violations any other issues in the past so that we could approve it going forward as long as the applicant is in good stand that which is what we generally do for most applicants as long as they're in good standing and so so far the applicant has not demonstrated that they are not not banding that they have any code violations nothing ongoing um I agreed I don't think it should be permanent um at the same time you have a stipulation that in the case of Redevelopment the conditional use will be voided anyway and then they would be then they would be you know subject to all the other conditions in the Land Development coding and comprehensive plan I I agree with some of your concerns um commissioner R Nikki you know even if it's 5 years what if the property sells in 6 months you then we have four and a half years um with someone who has the use that we don't know uh so that's one concern but I guess the the biggest concern is the the two uses existing together um you know and what problems could come from that that what problems have there been in the past that's that's what I'm I'm having trouble with so they've been operating like this for six years we haven't had any problems so what problems do we anticipate we've all received some emails of some complaints quite a number of complaints um you know so you assume half of maybe half are true you know still a lot um so those are just my concerns I mean commissioner res Nikki you gave an example of the shower being attached to the building I mean it just seems a bit odd to me it just doesn't seem like correct the use is necessarily go together um and then I I have the concern of what it could open up for other people what they might try to do um with parking or to get multi- uses out of their property there are other single family homes on the street north of that um that fall in the large resort District as well so what would that open up for parking with them or they going to try to make inquiries um to help generate revenue on their property so those are just some thoughts I've had absolutely and you know you you helped me I remember a lot of comments even public has made um or just overall when there's a parking lot coming up and the proximity that is to whether it's a home or a park um and you know I it's hard when you're a renter and you're not an owner of where you live right you you are are um coming in um under a lease um and how can you complain that there is a shower I don't know exactly where the shower is I can't I I didn't even know that was there until you put up that picture um but it tells me that that's something that's not even a part of this application but that that the owner is okay with having it so close to um maybe potential children who are inside that uh unit or apartment or or bedroom or whatever May um so that does concern me um that that that's there um so the the two I have the same similar concern that you have commissioner um is that having two primary uses without a clear separation um I I don't think that's a good thing you know where has it been a problem in the past for the last six years well other other than all the the tons of emails that I've been reading they were all from one individual pardon they were all from one individual um no I had more than just one individual um you know and even if there's just one you know again I know the person's not here and there but it's a complaint sure so um and again you're a tenant so I know it's much more difficult for a tenant why than because you're not the owner so but what keeps you from complaining there could be hundreds of reasons mayor you could be in a lowincome um you know I don't know what the rental is I don't know the individual person's situation they might need this home they can't afford to look for another home and so what would prevent them from complaining in filing a code enforcement violation how could they do that losing their home how could they lose their home I don't know can the applicant terminate a valid legal lease for any arbitrary reason I do not know that I don't know what their lease look like cuz I haven't seen a copy of their lease so if maybe there was a copy of the lease then I could tell you most definitely they cannot but I don't have a copy of that lease so I do not know that that would be a good thing to have brought to this application so it wouldn't be a question so I do not agree with that so yes I do see it as a problem I do not think that having two primary uses without a clear separation should be allowed I think you're setting up a fallacy that doesn't exist mayor that that was my point that why um planning staff actually took a lot of care to try to balance the uses um because you know it is they are tenants that are going to be dealing with a use that's considered intense a commercial parking lot that's not buffered there's nothing blocking it and if they were to complain they're essentially complaining against their landlord which you know is uh a major um reason why you wouldn't complain so I think staff has done a good job at trying to evaluate and try to put together some conditions to try to make sure that those two uses you know looking at them independently residential use commercial parking lot and not thinking about like who owns them necessarily but unfortunately that that's that was my thought too is that I I think that those tenants are are kind of put in a spot that they can't really um potentially uh use the resources that they have at the city because of potential fear of reprisal are you saying somebody can't make a miscellaneous complaint you can't it's got to be it canot be anonymous except for click fix what except for click fix right yeah by law your code enforcement um stuff is all you cannot be anonymous anymore I think that um I I I don't know that that we as the city commission need to be in the business of mediating landlord tenant disputes in any fashion and uh um I don't think it matters whether that's a three-unit apartment building or a single family home or any number of other uses that it could be I think that you know what we need to look at is does this make sense to have as a parking lot and if a tenant wants to you know if they have an apartment available and a tenant goes and looks at it and it's very clear that it's a commercial parking lot and they choose to rent that spot I'm not sure that it's any business of ours to you know want to negotiate their lease for them um I I I think that that that falls into the category of maybe things that maybe maybe we can try to regulate but I don't see any purpose in it um so I I think we should be looking at it as does this make sense as a parking lot and like the mayor said they've been doing it for quite some time um with with minimal problems um and uh you know from from my perspective I don't see any I don't see any problems with this my my concerns are making sure that we don't um you know I I would have a concern with making it Perpetual you know and not having there be an expiration date because particularly with the 10-ft sidewalk I agree I don't think there's any reason to make them put in a 10-ft sidewalk for the use that they're doing um but I don't want to you know make it impossible for us to make somebody who redevelops it into something else put in a 10- foot sidewalk so you know for me if we do something that um that has an expiration whether it's 5 years or seven years or has the ability for an administrative renewal based on no problems um I think that seems very reasonable Mr City attorney if the commission wanted to impose a condition that the conditional use application or the conditional use permit expires upon s of the property is that something that we could upon sale of the property or transfer of the property of ownership I mean somebody might want to buy it with that use on it um but they'd be able to reapply they could reapply I mean if so what I'm looking at so with cups under 4.3 just so you guys can follow along with me um there is a provision that or for 10 sorry changes to previously approved conditional uses so there's a distinction between minor revisions and not minor revision so there's a whole list of things that in fact 11 things where it says a minor revision is one which blank blank blank blank blank blank and so if and to me changing the name of the person in which the cup is um in you know basically the person responsible for it uh it doesn't seem like it fits the criteria for a major revision so and when it's a minor revision it does say the city manager is authorized to allow minor revisions to an approved conditional use after staff review to to authorize the issuance of a development order for the construction in accordance with the revised conditional use so things that would cause it to not be minor are things like uh alteration of location of any points of access to the site change uh does not change the conditional use does not increase the density or intensity uh does not have any uh change in external or internal traffic I mean so it's stuff like that that would trigger every because everything else would be a major change that would have to come back to you all so I would I would think that you could go down a road of as long as everything is the same and it's just changing whether it's the name of the person owning the property and is responsible for all the conditions that are being posed because somebody has to be responsible they have to take over this and these these conditional uses are are recorded in the public record you know that could be done I would think as a minor revision as well as perhaps even the the duration of it so to your point mayor you were saying that you know as long as nothing has changed and they're in good standing there hasn't been any um any complaints or any any changes that would you know trigger something that it could be done administratively I don't know how the applicant feels about that but seems like it's it doesn't expose them to a public hearing like this well it would seem to satisfy their in spirit their request yeah while giving the commission the opportunity to review if necessary if there are significant issues that arise because conditions are not being followed or because of code violations or other issues commissioner yeah um I'm a huge fan of entrepreneurs and I kind of feel like we're overthinking something that isn't a very large project here um and I agree with what commissioner Marriott was saying I mean it's kind of like buyer beware renter beware I mean I can't imagine being a renter not walking in that parking lot and going oh there's 20 or whatever amount of spaces we agreed to without going yeah it's a commercial parking lot um and I agree also mayor with you know six years the history has been pretty minor stuff a lot of it's here say um so I I don't like making things so hard on people that are just trying to run a small business so I personally don't see any problems with this one guess what there's code compliances that have to be met and if problems arise in the future that's law enforcement or code enforcement's role so um other than one minor thing you know we were talking about I think it was eight spots that have to be set aside and I don't know if we wanted to get into this kind of minutia but I'm I'm thinking you know three or four or five would probably be adequate um for the residents without restricting the uh the owner from making income off an additional three or four spots that's those are my thoughts thank you commissioner I I'm inclined to agree we have a resident of our city who's in good standing they're a small business owner um they're going to live with the consequences of their actions while they're here unlike many others who come before us we do not um I would recommend that we look at the um seven or eight um requests that that the applicants Council has made that are before us and look at those conditions and see if we are in agreement or if we would like to amend those um I think we should start with the first one um and I think that one speaks to the one you just mentioned eight units sorry eight spots versus four spots personally I don't see any reason to set aside eight spots for three units um which is significantly more than what would be customary for um for tenant bases for parking I I concur I think four is fine gives one extra spot for a visitor I agree with the staff in keeping a separation from um two primary uses on this particular lot that those being uh ridden the way that the staff recommended should be kept that way because it starts to separate the two they're sure in the entrance and the parking rot they're they're on the same problem prop Commissioners your thoughts four versus 8 I go with I go with staff's initial recommendation I'm fine with four okay consensus is four next we have hours of operations from 9:00 a.m. to 900 p.m. um personally I don't see why the applicant is asking for this it would seem like it's actually limiting their hours during the summer but that is your request uh personally I don't have it might not be the way I ran it but that's your request um so Commissioners what are your thoughts on the 9 to9 versus sunrise to sunset I guess so my question is if a vehicle is left there after the hours then well then it's up to code enforcement it would be up to someone calling code enforcement yeah okay would be a violation CP it would be a violation of the CP right correct I I think Sunrise the sunset diapers the baby I mean if it's winter car shouldn't be there at 8:00 at night if it's summer they can stay till sunset I don't I mean personally I would I would recommend Sunrise to an hour after Sunset because in especially in the summer the sun takes forever to set and if people don't leave immediately off the beach you I mean there's no one chasing them down right the beach manager's already gone home exactly they're not out there getting people in their umbrellas and chairs and chasing them off I'm fine with that you're fine with Sunrise to 1 hour after Sunset um and I I would like to keep it the sunrise to sunset we do have a future Beach ordinance coming up which if I remember um and maybe Matthew you could help me with this one we went through this for for a long and maybe miss you know commissioner maritt you remember as well what sunrise to sunset is as I remember we discussed the same thing that the mayor just brought up the sun going down on the horizon and what what closes the beach um so I would like to for it to stay consistent to what the hours is of the beach if if what they're saying is that this is what the parking lot is for is for uh Beach use yeah mean you normally would give people an opportunity to pack their stuff up and leave so even if we shut the beach down and there was somebody kicking everybody off the beach by the time they pack up all their stuff go to the car pack everything up that gives them a buffer of 60 minutes to get all their stuff in their car and and go home without somebody having to harass them you know we're we're here to make things again to commissioner's Point why are we artificially making this more arduous on the applicant for no reason whatsoever Commissioners yeah I'm fine with Sunrise to an hour after Sunset that's seems reasonable commissioner yeah quite frankly I'm I'm not sure how this use aligns with the future of our city and making this the city better but um since we're moving forward on it I'd say hour after Sunset to allow people time thank you seems we have consensus on Sunrise to 1 hour after Sunset does the applicant have any objection to that no objection thank you sir number six um this is the overnight storage of vehicles not associated with the owner um yeah I think we should maintain the no vehicles after hours um I understand what your request is and and why you're saying and and absolutely I certainly if I had a customer who was not in a condition that they should be driving I wouldn't want to force them but then the other part of me says that's what tow trucks are for and I don't want to be that guy but if you're an adult and you can and you put yourself in that position there will be consequences um and you're you know the applicant shouldn't feel bad about enforcing those I'm I agree with that mayor as is not as amended right agree shouldn't be stried Commissioners yeah it's fine okay we have consensus that the overnight does the applicant have an objection with it no we did not thank you sir um looks like number seven was resolved by number three and number six as far as Vehicles after sunrise and or Sunset um I think the question on number seven is whether we require someone to be there all the time from 9:00 a.m. to an hour after sunset yeah I mean what we going to have somebody in law enforcement with binoculars watching the whole time I mean it's right think we're getting stuck in the weeds yeah so you want to remove the requirement for a lot of tenant I think that I'm you know I mean I I understand what they're looking to do with allowing a lot attendant only when incoming vehicles are parking and that when the lot is full they would prefer to not sit there all day um I also know that somebody could walk back up and leave and then the lot's not full anymore but then if he's not sitting there he can't collect any more money so I I you know I mean I feel like that should be up to him on that one I don't I don't know that I don't know that there's anything going on in parking lots on the beach that really require somebody there supervising it on a regular basis to keep it safe okay Commissioners we have I I agree it's kind of self enforcing there's a there's an economic enticement there so and it's such a small lot okay next we have 11 um the applicant has re requested that we strike this um conditional use sorry the um the time the five year uh yeah the conditional that that would strike the condition don't strike yeah I don't agree it should be stri yeah I don't agree either yeah I would keep I think it should be five years at a maximum you know to the point of they live in the community what if it sells in six months we don't know who who's coming in okay bye May mayor Matthew McConnell for the record just remember this is the condition that staff modified in the beginning of the meeting so there was language that it would expire in 5 years but the applicant would have to reply reapply 180 days so if we do leave that in if we could just approve it with the amended that was shown not the one in front of you right correct um real quick Brandon do you have a I mean I know that we're doing this on the Fly um on that minor revisions versus major revisions I mean do you feel like uh just coming in and reapplying for the same exact thing but extending the period out another whatever would that constitute a minor revision I mean I'm looking at I'm reading all the things that constitute um a major you know I I agree I I don't see anything here that would prevent an administrative EX ension unless it's you know a material change to the condition um there is a later condition and even goes above what staff had recommended in the past for violations can be brought back before the city commission there are actual triggers in place for when they would be brought back whether it's the current owner or future owner um so I I would think that allowing for administrative approval would would be all right under what's adopted in our code the Mr Driscoll does that help you at all yeah I think I think that's a good compromise if they can seek administrative approval within days of the end of the five years I think that's satis sure so as long as as long as it meets at 410A yeah so as long as they there's no revisions to it and there's been no violations there is language and one of the conditions that if there's code violations it could come back before you and you could revoke it and that sort of thing as well so I think the city is protected and it protects the applicant as well thank you thank you okay are we in agreement with that okay thank you uh next item 12 condition 12 the applicant has requested that we strike this condition I do have a question on this one am I reading this correct as as it is proposed by City staff that if the were to requ require 10 foot sidewalks the applicant would be is that what it means that the applicant would be required to put one in right this would be if the city or the applicant move forward with a across the board Redevelopment Redevelopment um we would ask that they would provide the easement for that um again this would be a requirement during Redevelopment based on what would be included in the resolution under what the applicant provided so I think our main concern is just making sure that should there be any kind of future Redevelopment that they still be responsible for the sidewalk that it not be Perpetual across any future use um so but as long as they maintain the current use they would not be required to make changes to the sidewalk correct based on the the previous condition just may I if I may ask it seems that our Land Development code and talking in the large resort district is very clear that when you do redevelop you are required to put in 10 foot sidewalks it it seems that both your requests to add it and the applicant's request to remove it are mood points because the Land Development code requires that it be done no matter what in the case of Redevelopment the reason I added it in is because typically and and there are parts of our code where development is defined as actual con you know construction from the ground up a new building but development in the Land Development code as it pertains to conditional use actually includes a conditional use permit so just by asking for this it triggers the need for them to include the sidewalk which is why they asked for a variance but in terms of any kind of if they were to build a hotel or a new multif family there are other conditions that would still retain That Sidewalk requirement in that case um so they would be waved under this development which is just a sole conditional use permit but in the future they would still be responsible under actual new construction okay so if the applic can stated that they are not going to be seeking Redevelopment at some point in the future having this clause in there doesn't seem to in any way burden them I mean that's my point is simply if if you don't have any intention of Redevelopment leaving the language in here as the staff requested doesn't really impact the applicant in any way because they told us you're not looking to build a hotel or condos or anything else and if you apply for another conditional use that is different from this conditional use application you be subject to the 10-ft sidewalks anyway right the the applicant would not be required to do anything under this except for provid an easement they would be required to provide the easement if this condition were left in if it's struck um like the applicant mentioned that there could be a negotiation with the property owners but this is kind of a was like a half measure for the requirement to expand the sidewalk F2 requires an easen this would require an easement if the city or the fdot were to move forward at any point in the future with the actual expansion of the sidewalk independent of the applicant so that's that is one case in which this would actually result in in an impact and this would be an easement on Gulf Boulevard not on 51st correct uh correct only on Gulf Boulevard okay because there was a discussion about an easement on 51st as well for a sidewalk but that's been stricken that that that's not included correct thank you commissioners I think it makes sense to leave number 12 as suggested by staff concur sir I agree good 11 corrected 13 I think 13 is a moot point now that we've denied 11 M great all right lastly toilets uh number 16 um thoughts comments Brandon do you have the um amended language that you had for about the the permanent portable toilet also to um just to clarify you did I hear you correct in stating that a washroom laboratory slash washroom is not actually required yes just that the applicant has put one there and so since they've put one there in the past it' be nice to keep having one correct it's it's not an actual code requirement that they have one there um it's it's something we had asked for in the past and so if the applicant just removed it all together they would still be in compliance correct yes okay I think I would rather have something than nothing I think building an entire bathroom seems yeah rather excessive I agree um I'm I'm on as long as again no one's documented that they've had any issues with not maintaining the Portables in the last six years um I'm inclined to say keep using it as is Commissioners coner I would still want to find out about um removable let I don't know how we could add it to make sure that the health department um requirements are met if we keep a portable um toilet um because I mean it yeah we know we're saying this is 5 years but this has been going on I don't know when the first time was it the portable toilets appeared but obviously it's been more than five years already so it's almost a permanent situation per se um how could that be added I don't well if they wouldn't maintain it they would be subject to a code violation correct correct and so if somebody were to report them then they would be fined for having a you know portable toilet that's not maintained that's out of code that's in some way non-compliant so that is your vehicle for enforcement I'm not sure that we need to create a new one when there's already one in place and I think just direction from the commission toward staff if you were to approve the portable toilet we would know to reach out to the Department of Health that's something they we know that they need to do so we can we can ensure that at the followup yeah and like for storm removal and things like that correct and that that'll be part of the building code so just like with the Department of Health we we would have to check that anyway okay um that those are all of the conditions that we have can can I ask another question those are the conditions that that they brought to us but there was conditions as the staff wrote as well so um the one on the permeable ground because I know there was a question um and the engineer question about the calculations how does how does that come about like what are they going to be looking for and what does that trigger um and I'm I'm saying this just so that the owners know what it could possibly trigger if whatever these calculations we don't know about were to come up so typically an increase in impermeability on the site of I believe it's 10% if it's related with a par related to a parking area that would trigger engineering calculations so they have the surface as it's currently developed or laid out um if they were to Shell to the perimeter of the parking spaces that may trigger the need for them to provide storm water calculations um there's only a limited amount of space that would need to be filled in so I don't know that that would take place but they do have other options they could plant more sod there were there's some dirt areas they have other options that wouldn't trigger those um it's it's really up to them how they handle that thank you Brandon do we have any questions comments on the other conditions imposed by or requested by staff or are we okay with them as is okay seems like there are no objections to the other conditions by the city staff I make a motion to approve with conditions resolution 2023-24 do we have a second I'll second city clerk if you'll please do a roll call commissioner Philz no commissioner R Nikki no commissioner Lorenzen yes commissioner Marriott yes mayor patrilla yes motion carries 3 to2 thank you mayor you have um two variances that you have to tackle that's next do we have a motion for variance I only have one on my I've got it I make a motion to approve variance 20 3068 for the sidewalk second did I get that correct see cler if you please do a roll call vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Philz no commissioner res Nikki no mayor patrill yes motion carries 3-2 so the next variance has to do with Landscaping I believe correct Brandon yeah if I made we only have one variance on the agenda does he I believe we added a second we split those into and the second one will be U approve or deny a variance for buffering pedestrian front that's what I heard that's what he he presented okay right I believe it was written as the one motion but it it's for the part B the uh 3910 B for the other The Pedestrian improvements in the front Okay well one additional vote isn't going to hurt us so more is better than less that's right so I make a motion to approve variance 23068 B for the buffering and pedestrian front do we have a second second city clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner res Nikki no vice mayor Lorenzen yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Philz no mayor patrilla yes motion carries 3-2 thank you that concludes item 6A next we move on to item 7A items for discussion commissioner R Niki discussion regarding form six lawsuit I wanted to um have this opportunity to to talk with you all about it since you know obviously we can't talk about it in any other way um I read the information um on form six lawsuit I don't know if any of you have had a chance opportunity uh to look at it but with the amount of of um um things going on in the city lately and and all that that we're all going through as a city itself um I thought it would I would be interested to hear from um and I'll say our attorney but also the attorney that is leading us maybe have some way of them presenting to us as to what that could me um because this is a potential problem I would say for our municipality in future um people wanting to step up um um to take you know our seats or even committee seats um I just wanted to hear your thoughts on that if I could um just expand on that you you may recall maybe a month ago or so I circulated to you all a resolution ution that was prepared by uh the law firm of Weiss soda and they were essentially looking for they they understood um just like our our firm and lots of other firms we were starting everybody was starting to tabulate uh the number of resignations that took place across the state and um this Law Firm represents a number of cities that also had been impacted by uh resignations and they essentially decided that they wanted to bring a lawsuit uh in state court and federal court um and they were soliciting they were basically looking for plaintiffs cities and I think they were doing it on a flat fee of $10,000 and I had circulated that to you all um but of course we were dealing with a lot of other things um you know I've I've kept up with it and um I've recently got some more information where they have filed the law law suit they originally filed the lawsuit um and it was 26 cities now it's gone up to 40 municipalities that have signed on to this lawsuit essentially um attacking um I I really want to go into the details of of the merits of the the case because I think um the attorney who's doing this should be the one giving you that information but essentially attacking um the state for the impact on these local local governments and most of them are small governments that don't have a lot of um uh folks that would be inclined to run for office or uh things like that there are some municipalities that are like that had 100% resignation um there's also tangentially another movement called Fix uh form six which is more of a public relations uh approach to it but um yeah so this is a reputable Law Firm um Weiss serota and they have filed the these lawsuits on behalf of 40 um 40 local governments and I think it it it Matthew what was it over 100 elected officials 150 elected officials that were affected and and um I reached out to uh this attorney and they said yes they are still you know willing to take on other municipalities if other municipalities wanted to join in um they would do that so they they basically re they've amended their lawsuits to add the new names and I guess he would continue to do that but I would be happy to invite uh the attorney to uh participate via Zoom it probably be the best way instead of dragging them all the way here um if you wanted to hear more about it if you didn't you know that's fine but I just want to make sure you know that this is happening and going on thank you so I got a question so is the is the only benefit of participating is this just another city City adding strength or is there a benefit directly to any cities that participate um I don't I don't think that it's going to change what has happened already in the past but I think that the benefit if you saw it that way like would this city benefit by um maybe the law being changed I don't know enough about the lawsuit but I don't know if they're trying to avoid the law or change the law but um you know there are people that are trying to argue that perhaps they should have established um you know population limits on the application of this law which is not uncommon you know there are laws that are established by population um but the benefit to me would be that if you saw this as a problem going forward with trying to get people to run uh for elected office because they don't want to have this uh expanded disclosure of their assets that's essentially it were you asking and I don't want to put words in your mouth in other words if we don't join that as one of the 40 or 46 would the and let's say the state said we agree but only do those 40 or 46 or or are they more likely to change the law of the entire State you know I think they're seeking to change the entire law so it would be they'd have to change the law or have the law voided or uh deemed unconstitutional or something like that I don't again I don't I don't I can't site um all the you know verse and line on uh the merits of the case but you know if you stayed out of it and they prevailed you would you would benefit from that but I think the way that they see it is that the more that the justices see how much of an impact has occurred throughout Florida so if it were five cities or one City versus you know right now significant number um you know it I think it I think in their view it it looks it helps and you said there was a fee attached to joining the mov yeah originally I don't know if it's the same but originally they were seeking um 10 a flat $10,000 just to participate um so I don't know if that's still the the amount um but that's what they're were looking for at that time was just a flat $10,000 to participate in this lawsuit thank you any further discussion would anybody like to hear from on the attorney to I mean it doesn't hurt to listen at least in my opinion it doesn't hurt to listen um because I don't know all the merits of of this um I do think it's affecting the city I mean at least myself personally even when I'm trying to see if I'm going to um bring someone new into a committee that's a question that everyone keeps asking you know you know and I'm able to answer that part for the you know if it's the beach stship committee or um the library or so forth but it's in many people's minds you know I don't know what our special election coming up is going to bring but are we limiting the amount of people who would be interested in running um in our city or participating in our city because of this so I'd would like to know if anybody's interested in listening or we rather just sit behind and just see what happens I I might be interested but just for economy since our meetings are getting you know sometimes long and I think we got some big ones coming up maybe we could get some kind of summary of it at a date the future and email it to us or provide it to us uh yeah I'd be happy to I mean I can do that we can limit his time or you know or a presentation yeah we had over 20 people volunteer to be nominated for the vacancies it doesn't seem like that was really an issue that's my simple doing the math you know yeah um that's it I I mean we had 80% of our commission resigned because of it so you know I think we were affected um I think in talking to people in the community I do think more people would step up if it wasn't mandatory but I I guess commissioner R Nikki to your point I mean what would the format be you know would we do it before a commission meeting would it be part of a commission meeting that's the my question yeah presentation presentation yeah the format for the presentation yeah we have the TV here and can be an action item and the attorney can take five minutes and express to you what you know more more clearly what the merits are of the case answer any questions about potential liability uh any of that stuff before you decide yeah I I think if it could be solved with maybe just more information via email okay I'd be a fan of the email to because I know it's going to be an issue for District 4 but I don't know if it's going to be resolved before August so also further the Florida League of cities does a pretty good job setting out summaries of all the all this I'm I'm just saying there are resources available that if we need more immed information before the next commission meeting or before the next report those resources are available and generally they're in your inbox do you know if the Florida league is presenting on this already they were very vocal in the beginning I have not really followed this case um personally I disagree with it I think you took an elf not two hours ago that says you will uphold the laws of the State of Florida and I've said this on December 27th the same way your responsibility is to uphold those laws you do not like the law then you do the things necessary to change the law get get a referendum get it in front of your state representative who lives just down the street get the Grassroots moving make the changes I do not agree with the law as it was changed I'm happy to tell you that I don't think that thing exclusion should have been made but now that the law was passed just like all other Florida laws it is our responsibility as Commissioners to uphold us laws so if you don't like them change them by all means I I don't think it was a good law in the first place but I don't think we need to get ourselves involved in another lawsuit uh at this point well I think we're just asking for a presentation at this point not not that we're participating or via email if I think it sounds like at least um two are requesting just a summary email sent to the commission on this so that you can that'll be great that'll work decide later excellent next we have item nine staff reports city clerk if you'll please start I have none thank you thank you so much City uh City Manager for oh thank you sir City attorney yes I I do have one thing that I want to do um again you at the last meeting I talked to you about having an executive session in two weeks which would be April 9th for the lawsuit of um the you know the red white and booze lawsuit but I want to be more clear about it um just in case uh there's somebody uh you know wanting to make sure that I checked all the boxes because I'm required under Florida statute uh 28601 one subp paragraph 8 to uh request one of the exceptions for me to have a meeting outside of the sunshine uh referred to as an executive session is that the entity's attorney shall advise The Entity you are the entity at a public meeting that he or she desires advice concerning the litigation I am advising you I need advice the subject matter of the meeting shall we confined to settlement negotiations or strategy sessions related to litigation expenditures so this is going to be regarding settlement negotiations there's two prongs you know that we can only talk about two types of things uh so it'll be limited to settlement negotiations or perhaps a strategy session related to litigation expenditures the entire session uh will of course be recorded by a certified court reporter uh they will uh record the times and commencements and termination of the session all discussion and proceedings the names of all persons present at the time and the names of all persons speaking no portion of the session shall be off the Record the court reporter's notes shall be fully transcribed and filed with the clerk within a reasonable time after the meeting the entity shall give a reasonable public notice and we will be putting that out uh tomorrow uh reasonable public notice of the time date of the attorney client session and the names of the persons who will be attending the session um so as far as um the people attending the session um I will tell you right now uh it will be my you all hopefully uh Mr Saunders myself Matthew McConnell assistant City attorney perhaps OD Dickman as of our law firm uh William bolre who is defense counsel for us Brendan Sherman who is also defense counsel for us uh and an official court reporter so those are the folks that will attend uh some of them may attend via Zoom if you don't mind so that we don't have to bring them from Fort Meyers um and with that uh at the conclusion of the attorney client session the meeting shall be reopened opened and the person chairing the meeting shall announce the termination of the session the transcript shall be made part of the public record upon conclusion of the litigation which means that uh the public will have the opportunity to see to read what was talked about uh during that session um after the conclusion of the litigation so I wanted to make sure that I did that as formal as possible um to make sure that get it right so there you go what time what time so that's going to be April 9th at 5 o' I think we just needed uh one hour um for that so uh 9 the 9th at 5: thank you for your Indulgence of that can you please um update us and elaborate on the sarata's attorney um there seems to be things I hear on the community that somehow the city was somehow approved this as far as I know nobody approached me asking I'm not sure about the rest of the Commissioners and so I think we should make sure that we're the residents are clear as to what's happening and why it's happening and whether it's with or without the city's approval on on what approval the sarata's attorney joining the city uh the lawsuit that the city so the so the Sera uh intervened and the the case uh that's being um brought by protect St P Beach and individuals um we took the city took no position on it um one way or the other um so typically you know judges will um you know allow people who have a vested interest that they see as a vested interest to intervene uh so you know you know there was no there was no reason to really get into that fight and spend a lot of attorney time on it I just wanted to clarify that it just to clarify further uh defense Council for protect STP Beach did consent to the intervention so and I'm just I'm responding to the things I've heard from the community that somehow that the city was approached that we were asked and that we somehow consented in one way or another and we were we were to I mean you're required that ask all the parties and um I spoke with defense counsel and I said you know is there any problem with us just taking no position whatsoever you said no okay thank you for clarifying that sure District 4 thank you mayor um so I did uh ask the city manager to add uh Beach re nourishment progress where we are to that nine April because I got a lot of residents asking about that as hurricane season gets closer and closer so I appreciate apprciate that um congrats to Commissioners Marriott and res Nikki on your your appointment kudos to Jen McMahon for the 9th Avenue oh she's still here good the 9th Avenue parking workout with the businesses down there I know it's been a mess since the seaw wall construction has been going on and I appreciate you getting those garbage cans out to the rest of the beach um and I was going to give Mike Clark a compliment since we always beat him up but he's not here so I'll send that in person to him um and the dog park is reopen again with grass thank you thank you District three just to um for everyone to enjoy the next weekend I know I'm one that loves to participate in the the egg hunts at the pool and always take home a tree so I'm I'm growing a lot of Australian pines at my home so just for those of you out there in the community it is uh a real nice event that they hold and and be there early look for parking um lots of kids do show up um and I think the city does a real good job you know with that event so happy holid thank you District to um yes there's the Three Palms Point neighborhood block party is Saturday April 6 um it is from 6:00 to 900 p.m. that's the only thank you district one uh just that um with it being in the thick of spring break I was out at upam Beach this weekend and uh it was a lot of people there and everybody seemed to be having a really really nice happy family kind of good time and uh it seems like it's been a very uh uh reasonable Spring Break season this year and so I'm sto stoked to see that and stoked to see our businesses doing well and we'll carry on thank you so much with that we are adjourned thank you everyone e