##VIDEO ID:TwdJ1nQDBUQ## e e e e e e e e e e e e e let's call to order this city commission Workshop meeting of the city of St Pete Beach today is Tuesday the December 10th 2024 it is 4:30 p.m. let's stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please I pledge ALG to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with libery and justice for all city clerk if you'll please do a roll call vice mayor mahand here commissioner Marriott here commissioner Robinson is present commissioner R niiki here mayor patrill here we have a Corum thank you all right so today we're going to have a discussion on The Advisory Board and committee's code of ordinance yes mayor Commissioners I have attached for your review the chapter 22 code of code of ordinances that outlines the expectations for each of our advisory boards I've also attached the notes as provided for from vice mayor mahand back in August you'll see a list of all meeting dates for 2024 and corresponding attendance or non-attendance and the 2025 board meeting dates that have been approved except for the Parks and Recreation board because they did not meet in November so that will be for their review at their next meeting in 2025 thank you City Clerk all right commissioner mohin do you want to take the lead on this one sure thingk Mr Mayor so I think as everybody here knows uh uh I introduced this item back in August and we voled it voled it around a couple times and then the storms came and uh obviously it took a back seat uh but uh the the real Genesis behind me putting forth this proposal um was uh it started when I started paying attention to um what was going on in city government and uh there was a lot of uh conversation in 2023 um it seemed like the city clerk was pulling her hair out um with uh issues with attendance and issues with uh lobbyist reports for the two uh uh boards that require the lobbyist reports to be filled out and then uh I was in January I was appointed to the board of adjustment and I got to observe some of these things firsthand at that point participating as as a board member uh and then talking to uh a number of the well really all the all the uh board chairs with the exception of board of adjustment because I served on that uh just getting some input from them on how they felt uh about uh the time that they were putting in uh for the city and I I was basically left with the feeling that one uh we needed to tighten up uh some of the attendance requirements uh reporting requirements but to also create some Synergy or mesh points uh between the various boards and committees particularly the big ones but um not not just the the four what I would call the big four really all the Committees but uh I focused on the big four to try uh you know not to make it too overwhelming uh coming right out of the gate so um that was really the Genesis behind me just putting some things on on paper um I'm really not like uh wed to any of the proposals that I have necessarily put forward uh these were my ideas and I thought that they would be a starting point for the commission to to consider uh I guess the only thing I will say that if we have to prioritize uh because most of the proposals are the same with the exception of the reporting uh they they pretty much parallel one another uh so far as the requirements and the like uh except reporting that only applies to board of adjustment as well as um planning board uh so I know that we have Beach coming up fairly soon and beach only meets uh twice uh or I'm sorry I apologize only meets I believe four times a year uh that struck me for something as important as uh our number one asset in the city uh beside our residents uh as not being enough and uh I I had proposed that I thought maybe they should meet monthly like the other big boards I will say say that um the vice chair of the beach stewardship committee who he uh we've spent quite a bit of time communicating about the beach um ordinance and the beach in general uh on a host of matters uh he does feel that if we're going to ask the beach Stewarts to have more regular meetings uh and he does support them presenting before the commission at least periodically uh that he would like to see more support from the city for the beach stewardship committee um feels that maybe um they hadn't been taken as seriously as as maybe they need to be or needed to be so I just wanted to add that that uh well I feel uh in my opinion that they probably should meet monthly that was my initial suggestion um I I have spoken to the vice chair and the chair of the beach stewardship committee and the vice chair comment was if we're going to meet monthly uh I hope we have better support than we have now so I did want to to throw that in there um but I I don't know if today if it would be best to just talk about Beach first since we're working towards getting that ordinance up here and hopefully approved uh or or Mr Mayor how we want to proceed on it whether we want to talk about them individually I got a feeling if we talk about all four individually we won't get through them all in an hour and I also know that the city clerk uh wants us to at least have a conversation as it relates to um Zoom type meetings for the for the boards and committees so uh I I would suggest asked obviously Mr Mayor you run the show that maybe we start with beach and have conversations about that and you know see where we go so if we if we break it down to the the three big categories right and addressing each board individually um so one is if we look at the beach through a trip see if there's you know if we need to make an adjustment there on how frequently they meet and exactly what you know what they would be doing if they're meeting you know uh four times as many um then the second category would be the the lobby reports right so we have several boards that require the members of the board to disclose their interactions with lobbyists registered lobbyists um I mean that's something that I've brought up I know probably at least half a dozen times in the last year and a half um and then the third category would be uh you know attendance remote attendance um and whether we would you know want to allow that whether we want to delegate it back to the individual committees allow them just the same way that the commission usually does it you know or whether we want to set specific guidelines you know how often under what circumstances um so I think we can tackle those three things if you're all in agreement we can start with that if there's anything else that comes up we can tackle one each each one of these one at a time and then and then go from there so if that's the case then let's start with the beach one um so two questions I have for for the proposal for the beach is one um what would they be doing meeting 12 times a year and then well really have three questions um are the board members so you've spoken with the chair and the vice chair and they seem to be open to the idea of meeting more frequently um I guess the question then is you know are the other members available to meet more frequently because they initially signed up for a meeting three or four times a year and then the third question is when they say they would like to see more support What specifically are they looking for what does that support look like so that if they're telling us that this is what we need then we can as a commission say yes we can do that or know that's maybe something we can't do um just make sure that we understand what expectations are so that we can you know address those those questions for me or for them no I think those I think those are the three questions that that I have regarding so I mean you may have other questions and for me that the question is what are they going to do what exactly will they be doing meeting 12 times a year uh are the members okay with meeting that often when they sign up for significantly less commitment and then three what when they say they want support what support are they looking for well I I for just from my perspective um maybe they don't need to meet 12 times a year but I know I've spent a good good amount of time here in the last uh several weeks on beach issues and I have a feeling that if they were meeting and was having were getting support from the city maybe I would have been able to spend more time on other things so I mean that's real world firsthand experience in recent weeks now I understand we just had a storm but you know the beach isn't going anywhere and uh you know with the new beach ordinance and the like they're apt to have a lot more to do there um you know I I the I did speak to the chair he's here today I'm not sure if we want any comments or not I spoke to the chair very early on uh in fact I was still a candidate at that time I believe um he was supportive of more meetings the vice chair was supportive of more meetings uh but maybe not monthly particularly I mean quote unquote I don't want to say quote unquote but um his main concern was if they were going to have more meetings they wanted more staff support in order to get things done at those meetings so that's been my conversation about the meeting counts and what they would do so so what do they mean by more support they I'm just trying to like understand exactly what it is they're asking for do they want a dedicated person on staff to work with them do they want reports what what exactly are they so just so that we know what we can agree to give them so once again I can't speak for them I'm just going off meetings with them uh they do feel that staff should have a lot more involvement uh in teeing things up and prepping things for them to work with on the beach M um and the the second one question there that you had was what the other three board members would be open to meeting more fre oh no no not that no still still on the support um so they are they looking for dedicated staff I mean I'm just trying to stand I'm not sure necessarily looking for dedicated staff but looking for more more staff support and direction for their initiatives um like I I don't believe I'll give you an example I mean I'm going to talk about it again tonight we talked about it at the last meeting the rope fence that to me that should have happened between staff and Beach stewardship and I think you know I I have found out I believe staff was working on some of that but I don't believe the beat stewardship was aware of that because I had met with the or had a phone call with the the vice chair on that exact matter and I know for a fact he wasn't aware of it so I I think that's probably the type support they're talking about that there be more communication and I get that I got the same thing from the historic preservation board Now understand we we have new city leadership now and I I will say that one of my biggest complaints before I ever took office here was the lack of communication and followup uh from the city government uh and that was me as a resident and me hearing it from residents we're in a very unusual time now but I will say I feel communication has gotten much better so a a lot of the background on the information that I have received from the various boards was either very early in the new city man tenure um or you know based on past experience of previous City management would it be fair maybe so I'm going to turn this around right rather than the beach stewardship members looking for support from the city staff it almost sounds like they are offer offing themselves as a resource to the city staff and maybe we haven't been taking advantage of them as much as we could so not necessarily a resource for them but rather bringing those things directly to the commission run it by the library board run it so it's not it's not just a beach stewardship issue I think I think it's it's it's an area where we could where we could use the resources that we have with the different boards whether it's historic whether it's Library whether it's spee stewardship you know to bring those things because again they're representatives of the community right to to bring it to them and say look here's what we're thinking here's an issue that we're seeing can we get some input or feedback and then if it has traction in that with that board then we bring it to the commission if necessary does that sound well it does I think that's part of you know it's maybe going straight to staff and I promise you I don't want to keep talking I will let no I'm only I only as an ex speech St so I'll follow you so I'll talking we let the other I know uh David hubard who's the chair of the planning board spoke to us it was I believe one of the the second night we were going to take this up and he was extremely frustrated um I however we do it all I wanted to do is get it out there and say I think we ought to be able to do better here we've got a number of smart people on these boards and a number of committed people not all of them uh some of them you know some of them work a lot harder than others but uh in general there's a lot of resources there so however we can get them to get information and get it give information whether it's directly to the commission through the mesh point that I suggested whe whether it's uh more involvement uh with staff or the like uh doesn't really matter to me I just think that uh we really should get them engaged more uh and I'm open to whatever way that is um because if we just want to make unilateral Decisions by staff and the commission why do we bother having the boards right it's kind of a waste of everybody's time so yeah i' no you can say as much as you like I only wanted to say something as as a prior um member of of the beach store and so I can give you that perspective um and I think this applies to all the the the Committees um so when I first started on beach Stewart you know you read you read what what is it about what's the purpose what are we here for it's very very small when you when you read it right there's not much but when it says something you know we've had member come up here and and I'll say Mr kersman because he has and said this multiple times about um it talks about renourishment the renourishment of the beach and I'm talking about what our Charter says right the purpose of this committee it's far from what they do and that that's the complaint part that I that I hear um commissioner mahalan talking about when we we comp I don't want to say it's a complaint it's a disconnect of what is reality right if we need a renourishment it doesn't go to beach stewardship um penel County might be the one starting that not us even right and so there's a disconnect of who's who's leading it and who's communicating and and even this commission is kind of removed from that too because we're not leading that renourishment effort we're hoping someone's going to come and pay for it right use the bed tax or some other money out there um and bring it to us so that's a disconnect from what the purpose of the renourishment committee is I mean sorry the be stship committee is for now when I was here and when I first started it seemed like it was a nice committee that we came around and heard turtle truers come pay a presentation the skimmers and I thought oh well that's nice you know we hear but that's it it was nice we heard presentations there was no action it was not what the purpose of the committee was until we were given a purpose and the purpose that we were given was the beach ordinance and then all of a sudden we were meeting frequently um as a committee and also jointly with the commission and now we had a purpose not written in our Charter but it was a purpose now in that purpose could I say did we need to meet monthly absolutely because we had a task it was a big task that now at this point being on the commission is frustrating that it hasn't been approved okay because that I don't even know what year that started okay so that is frustrating that is the lack of support and I'm not going to say it's from from staff that it's it's from the commission because we should be pushing for that to be moved right and we should be supporting all the work and effort that was done instead of thinking that we have to start all over again and this applies to many of the other um I think boards when you hear them and when they're frustrated and they ask to meet jointly with the commission because they want to revisit what is their purpose what what what do they serve because then that determines how frequently you meet because to me to me I'll be we'll be you know back then that was nice hearing about the turtles and about the skimmers and yes we know there's dogs on the beach and they shouldn't be there and yes that there is um Florida Department of Environmental Protection can put fences on and it you doesn't hurt the code or the state won't you know all of that it was nice but we were not charged to do anything about it nor had the authority as a beach door ship to have authority to do anything about it and I would say that would be the same for the staff working with the committee right because it's not what's written so how would the staff know how to lead and charge this committee or support to committee when what's written doesn't match the purpose right the their their work doesn't match the purpose um I think the same for um Parks and Recreation for the library and I know I mentioned this when you brought this up um before to get us to this Workshop is you know we have friends at the library some people are on front of the library that serve on the committee okay how's that possible okay and so to me at that point is do we need it because you could have friends at a park you could have friends at the library right what's the purpose what's the purpose of these committees and um you know just like we want to revisit I I know we've talked about looking at our Charter even as a commission there's things that we need to go back and review that's outdated it hasn't there hasn't been a review and I don't know if Amber knows this since when was the last time any of this has been reviewed and updated to what the city needs um so yeah we we have an hour for this workshop and it's a lot of work I think that needs to be done um I know we're not going to finish it um can we randomly sit here and just say okay let's have them M meet monthly and then make sure you do your lobbyist report that doesn't solve the purpose and what we we task the Committees to do all the Committees I think planning board board of adjustment historic have different purposes and for the most part have been doing it but they have their frustrations and they all have voiced some level of frustration because they probably want it Revisited as well I wonder if if the commission will entertain a crazy idea which might actually get us to stick to our timeline today so um you know we're talking about about you know getting the boards more involved in kind of like their own destiny I think one of the ways we can do that is and and utilizing them as a resource rather than us sitting here making decisions for the for the beach stewardship board or any the other boards I think we may want to look at giving them a task kind of a you know sending a request to them that the first meeting of the coming year they'll be responsible for answering these questions right the beach stewardship committee should be the one to decide well I think they should do a couple things the first thing is and again I looked at the beach through a SHP what our Charter says and um that was really the reason I asked what are they going to do for 12 12 times a year right because I'm looking at what the charter says and and maybe there's not much for them to do 12 times a year but if the beach stewardship wanted to make a proposal or have the conversation what do they see their role how could they serve the city how can they be a resource to the commission and the staff what you know what items would they like to tackle and the same thing for for all the other ones right maybe with the exception of uh you know Board of adjustment planning um but even even they could look at it again those are more statutory requirements but you know the historic board right the parks and wreck all the other ones you know they could look at it and say okay here's here's what we actually do here are the things we actually would want to do bring and know here's how many times we think we should meet a year um and then bring those things back to the commission and as a proposal and then you know the commission can take a look at it and then we can make those amendments to the Charter and say okay here you know Beach stewardship committee this is what you're telling us you want to do we agree with ABC we don't agree with f over here um we can then have the those discussions but then again I think we can use the boards as a resource to help answer these questions so that we don't sit here tonight because we have to answer this question for all the boards right not just so I I think one of the things we could do is just give them a directive you know first meeting next year the first thing you're going to look at is let's revisit your purpose you know let's revisit how many times a year you meet um and then I'm not sure there's a third thing but attendance attendance well attendance we would set from I mean I think that's something that the commission can set for for everything should do that yeah I think we should have a uniform because each yeah depending how often they meet but that they come to us with that then you can determine the sure and then they can they can make recommendations so if it's a board that only meets you know six times a year it could be that look if you miss more than 50% rather than if you miss three in a row like some of the other boards that meet on a monthly basis right uh or whatever their recommendation is to to the commission I think you're also going to want them to also list what support they need what they'd like to see sure well I I think if they if they are you know if if they can revisit the purpose of the board that'll then you know help them in setting the agenda at the beginning of each year for the coming year and then based on that agenda they can come back to the city staff and say okay here's where we need help in these areas what also keeps things current to this to our environment which I think is a great idea which we definitely need especially we are in a totally different environment right now y but I think on the other items um attendance and and lobbyist reports and those sort of things I think we could as a commission can dictate or or decide on at this point but the other items I think it's a great idea let them write their their Destiny I I think we can let them determine their own attendance as well because they all meet so you know some of them only meet twice a year right some of them meet 12 times a year and then you know for for the ones that meet twice a year if they miss three meetings that's a year and a half so for them it just might be look you can't you know you you you know in advance what the meetings are we have to commit and we can have a conversation about whether it's Zoom or not you know if you can if it's a board that meets twice a year you can miss one but attend by Zoom as long as there's a quum for I mean for example just throwing out ideas but just on on this one first issue do we what are your thoughts so I I think uh I think that's a good idea to to throw it back to the the Committees and the boards to to do a little bit of their own um a little bit of their own deciding you know th those kinds of things how often they should meet that that sort of thing um I think that having better communication between the boards and the Committees and the commission um is is a fantastic idea and I think that you know having some kind of um you know and I I think this is something that the individual boards and committees can can also decide or certainly have significant input into you know whether they want to be able to present back to the commission quarterly or monthly or how often they feel like they they would have something valuable that they need to report back to us um I think that we do also want to be a little bit cognizant of you know do the do these boards and committees meet to generate their own ideas about what should happen that they then bring to us or do these boards and committees meet to do the work that is directed from the commission right I mean we all just met for three hours on Saturday to decide what what the priorities are you know we're going to be meeting again to decide what priorities are for any given time period so I think we want to be a little bit careful about just throwing out a blanket like what do you think what do you think you should be doing and then having them be working on things that aren't a priority that we as the commission have set for for whatever time period we're looking at so um I I don't know that that changes at all your idea about you know throw it back to the Committees to to determine some of these things on their own I think it's just something we want to watch out for no I was I was thinking really in terms of the stated purpose of the charter we haven't Revisited that in a very long time especially the beach stewardship you know they're talking about they have zero impact on beach R nourishment yeah they can write letters yeah send emails that's about you know so what I'm what I'm saying is give them as a task for the coming year you know maybe start on the first come up with a plan at the first meeting here's how we're going to tackle it is take a look at the charter tell us does the charter AC accurately reflect what they're doing what what you're actually doing do we need to amend the charter and the purpose of that Committee in the charter yeah so that it accurately reflects what they actually do not necessarily setting the agenda each year but really on an even bigger scale does what the chart are you doing what the charter says or do we need to amend the charter because you're not no longer doing something or you're doing all these other things that really should be qualified yeah no I I I think that makes I think so rather than us reviewing the charter and each individual let the Committees who are actually doing the work let them look at the charter and then bring a proposal back to the commission that we can discuss with them and then vote on whether we want to make those Charter amendments for those committees yeah yeah know that sounds fine okay who do my only yeah my only concern is is just you know that we actually get this done well this will be whatever whatever we're going to do that you know we're not sitting here 24 months from now and still talking about it but um I don't know if it's appropriate but is it right to ask the clerk's opinion on a couple things sure but but just to answer my proposal is that this is that we give them a directive for each of the Committees that this is the first one of the first first meeting this is going to be on their agenda yep no I so we're not talking we're not we're not talking about you know and then you know you know for the ones that meet you know monthly maybe you would say look you need to wrap this up by the end of q1 for the ones that meet less frequently you know um you know but I think this is something that they should be able to wrap up in one two three meetings yes you all make it sound so simple so this is a lot of or this is a lot of organizational work and you're what I'm you're you're what you're really talking about is you're seeking strategic alignment so I just want to caution that it's simple work because we're going to have a lot of opinions about current roles future roles desired roles and I also want to understand from the commission is this a clerk's office uh initiative that they're going to lead or is this a city manager's office initiative um there will be staff work required and I would want a very thoughtful facilitated process with each one of these bodies so I just want you to be mindful of the planning if you want good work it's not just asking them five questions and coming back and giving you five answers we're going to have to call the data put it together there'll be lots of emotion around purpose you know if you've ever done Vision or Mission work it rarely gets done in three meetings unfortunately so I just just be just be mindful that I'm not sure I can neither one of us could deliver this in first quarter I want to be very clear that would be nearly impossible to give you a good work product um I would also ask that when you're thinking about the Strategic alignment that because these are all advisory in nature my goal would be longterm that your priorities feed into their work not their desires feed up to you while their feedback is important and it's going to inform you on your priority work setting if we do it the reverse I think that's why you've seen a lot of frustration is because they're at they're at committee level saying we want this done staff's trying to do what commission wants and now they're getting referred work out of committee and so it's it basically makes it that we don't get anything done um the best example I can give you is the turtle ordinance you know I don't think I don't know that that ever came down from the commission as something that was extremely important and we were getting lots of pressure from the committee and so there's this Push Pull between two bodies one appointed and one elected so those are my words of wisdom this evening but we would need some clarification on um which office you would like to lead this because I think the clerk's office spends a lot of time with these uh the boards and commissions so I just don't want to leave her out got some questions well I mean that guess just just kind of feeds into that more but I know like I say the initial Genesis from this for me when I once again was very young in my experience in this chamber and it wasn't as a commissioner as as a member of the public was the city manage I mean the the city clerk pulling her hair out on the subjects of attending and the mandatory reports so I I don't know maybe this has gotten better and really the only issue we have is getting better communication between the boards and the commission and staff and maybe we don't need to change anything to get that to get to that point other than just working harder at it or making a concerted effort to engage them more but I I think that the city clerk should comment on this because again put Amber on the spot say I don't want to put on the spot but I hear what you're saying I think that's us right there's something that's already written right we already have an attendance or let me say policy but it's we have something written the reporting is already written who enforces it sits up here right Amber can communicate to us that as she's done in the past which is that frustration I think that that commissioner mahalan is talking about is here's five five people who have not reported and and what we do about it right there's not the frustration there's nothing being done if you missed attendance you are you being removed did we say we were going to remove them so that I think falls on on us not so much on Amber I mean Amber you can communicate that to us if you wanted to but that's what I hear as the frustration in the past is that she comes to us and reports it and it's almost like it falls in death ears right nothing happens um at least that's what I see well I think historically that's absolutely true but um every commission is going to be different um I certainly don't have any problem telling somebody to either come to the meeting or get off the committee um but you know I sat here and watched two different commissions that did nothing about that so uh if I'm the city clerk I'm saying I don't trust these guys I want something codified well I'm just being honest well but that doesn't then fall on the Committees right doesn't that wouldn't that fall on the commission no it does it does it does fall on the commission and it it fell on death years in the past again I'm not so I'll make the same proposal I've made the last several times which is hopefully we can check off one of things one of these things off tonight right so on the Lobby's report so we we'll come back to the first idea on the lobbyist report I think it should be very simple you don't fill it out you do not get to participate totally agree right absolutely and then you've missed your three meetings you're out right you fail to report a second time it's my proposal is two strikes you're out you forget one time I understand you know wait everybody has one of these put it on your calendar it's on my calendar I have it set on the 9th of the quarter with a reminder the week before a second reminder the day before and then three reminders the day off just in case I forget I'm just saying it's not that hard right so to me is if you if you fail to fill out the lobby report you do not get to participate in any future meetings of that board you fail to fill out a second time you're off the board how's that enforced though Mr Mayor I mean doesn't the commission or the respective commissioner have to enforce that I don't think the city clerk has the authority to enforce that be codified I mean it's not written like that the lobbyist one is not written as stated by the mayor no and actually in the lobbyist ordinance it doesn't specify which boards but if you guys remember I just focus on the boards that have to report to the state annually the form one so that's what I narrowed it down to your two boards planning and board of adjustment um and I I would say as of recent there's just one member that hasn't done their last quarter report but everybody else has turned theirs in on time um so yeah but it's last year we had multiple members we had commission members who refused to fill out their you know so um so I don't know if that's something we need to kick back to use your terminology to the city attorney's office and help draft something that we can put into the uh Lobby registration ordinance or we put it into the board's ordinance I'm not sure where it needs to Board needs to belong I get your direction I'll put it into the code of ordinances under the boards okay and then the prescription would be that mul lobus reports let me know we'll write that in if you want the number of absences three to result in automatic removal you do that you can do that um and let me know what you want about how many strikes on the lobbyist uh reports and we can write that in and just to be like the teacher you know from schools is there excuse to absences I mean being fair because you know things happen um does that have to be codified or is that just something internal like we know hey there could have been a death in a family there could be someone in the hospital I mean there's things that could happen typically they're unexcused like we would say three unexcused absences or two or however many you want okay so on the on the lobbyist report you have 10 days right that's right so I don't know that there is any excuses listen yeah like if if you're in a coma but I'm just talking in general terms you've got 10 days so you know there should be plenty of time I'm more specifically is about attendance if you're not able to come especially if we don't um I know you're going to do the next part or one of the parts is about whether you can do a virtual meeting you know I've had I've had to go to Connecticut you know when my father-in-law passed away but I joined the commission meeting because it was allowed for me to join sure you know so if if we tackle the lobbyist reporting first how do you all feel about that proposal I would like to clarify if you're talking about adding lobbyist reports to more of the boards and committees or if we're still just talking about just the ones that are re the ones that are already required yeah I'm fine with that if you so so the the the what you've proposed is that if you don't fill out a lobbyist report if you if you have not yet filled it out by the due date you can't participate in the next meeting until you have filled it out mhm and then if you and then if you're late twice you're out or just if you don't do it at all twice if you missed the deadline twice twice in a row or twice ever period okay so if you missed it once and then five years later you missed it again you're out yeah I mean it's it's not you've got 10 days I'm I'm just clarifying what you're saying I don't have a strong opinion about it one way or another yeah I mean we're we're dealing with adults you should be able to use a calendar and fill it out and I think that um if if if down the road it turn you know at some points in the past it's been luckily it hasn't been the case lately that there have been people who want to be involved right and and want to serve on the boards and committees um there have been times in the past when that has been a a a more difficult ask to find people to serve um and so you you know if if the time comes down the road when that becomes the the the scenario again um you know uh uh in the future it PE people who are involved at that time may want to rethink how how freely you get rid of people depending on how hard or easy easy it is to find people to participate but currently there's people want to participate we haven't had a lot of trouble finding people to participate I'm totally fine with that proposal right okay um I have con concerns on that lobbyist report for simply the fact that um you know we do have um the qualification of the members that uh it's only persons that uh do not have any personal private interest um that are appointed to the boards and I have a concern that we do have one member that hasn't filled out the lobbyist form that is a member of an advocacy group or is a lobbyist is member of of a of a um advocacy group so I have concerns with that and I thought prior we weren't that was something that was not allowed with our uh previous city manager um that was kind of uh deemed as a as a no no and that would to me ball right into a conflict of interest voting board as well yeah so that's that would be a concern y Okay so let's let's tackle the first one and that is a valid point we can address as well so on the lobby registration and then the requirements are we in in agreement right you miss the deadline you do not get to participate in the next meeting you miss it a second time during a term you're off the board I agree with that yeah that's fine okay so let's we got that done good um okay so maybe what we can do is for your question because the last time that was a City attorney director not city manager um maybe we can ask the City attorney to look into it and then come back um you know at our next meeting or the um meeting following so the question is if a if a board member is a registered lobbyist and then they are also on a board um so we have had previously we've had individuals who are part of advocacy groups that we've asked to recuse them so they were not even lobbyists they were just members of advocacy groups and we've asked them to recuse themselves we had one instance where the husband was on a board he was not a part of an advocacy group the wife was a part of an advocacy group and we asked him to recuse himself too okay so those were one level and two levels far less severe than having somebody who is a lobbyist and then also on the board so we can maybe are you okay with asking the city an opinion oh absolutely I I think that's where it needs to go I mean point at the on the state level the conflict of interest arises if there's a special pecuniary gain or loss to you yourself or a member of your immediate a family that includes people that you live with um there is an exemption um and the commission on ethics State rules if you are serving on a nonprofit board um and you're not taking any compensation um then you can vote on a matter even if that nonprofit uh is either the applicant or takes a position on it um you can choose what you want to do at the local level if you want to allow that or prohibit that um then you can make that you have to be um no less stringent than the state but you could be more stringent than the state okay so maybe what we can do with that one is we going to use commissioner mooh Holland's idea from last time if if this is something you're interested in we'll let you run with it um and then to bring it back to the commission and say look I think we need to to make amendments to the qualifications for the boards or at least the big three okay you know if if it's if it's you know budget if it's you know planning if it's uh Board of adjustment you know maybe if you're a member of a lobbyist firm or whatever you and then we can bring it back to the commission if the commission wants to move that forward or not we we can take it from there does that sound sounds great okay good so then the other one that we have in 11 minutes is uh attendance remote attendance so I don't have any particularly strong thoughts on that I'd love to hear what what y all think about it you're talking about if you miss three in a row typ no no just allowing first of all allowing the boards whether we want to allow the boards to participate remotely whether we want to tell the boards you make the decision on a case-by casee basis or whether we want to dictate what the um uh what the rules are uh and then lastly is you know if you're not present in person does it count as one of your three absences or does it count as one of excused absences rather than unexcused absence or how we want to how we want to count that so from from my perspective uh I am not a fan of the uh Zoom Callins and I think that we should make make that decision I don't think that should be left to the boards um i i i i f we went a couple months here where um we had uh someone zooming in for every meeting and it I was in the audience and it was very clunky um it the the meetings didn't flow well uh I think that zoom in should be oneoff so I do not feel that they should be anything that is frequent or often uh approved for any of the Committees so I absolutely would not support allowing them to make their own decisions but I am only one of five here I I could voice um a little bit about virtual um especially because my profession is virtual so I've been doing it for 11 years um and I don't see anything against having a zoom meeting or participating in a zoom or teams or whatever platform you're using but the word participate to me is what's important okay because I have seen that happen and as as in my profession if you're not able to actually be participating and completely involved not doing I'm not walking down the aisle doing my grocery while I'm listening into a meeting um or you know I'm I'm at in Disney World you know joying the amusement park and and trying to do my work okay that's not participating actively engaged if you're not able to be in an a location that is quiet conducive to the profession then it doesn't count then I would say we can't hear so and so someone turn let them know that we're turning them off and that's not participating you're You're gone because it is wasting the audience the residents in our time so as long as you are in um actively engag and participating I'm all for it I mean I've been doing it for 11 years I do that with my students I do it with my families we do it as team members whenever we need we did it and most of us learned having to learn quickly through covid um but again we all know what the downfalls could be and and I 100% agree with you if we can't hear you and you're not participating then we need to shut you out you know door closed I would ask the city manager how much uh extra staff is needed if any for the zoom call I'm actually going to defer to the clerk because she's she ends up having to coordinate with it and I would at least need one IT staff present at every meeting that that occurs yeah so I agree with the city manager you would need to make sure that it is here but you know you all what I've witnessed in Zoom meetings with other people besides the commission you all engage in no read a room like you know when it's time for you to speak when it's not time for you to speak that's not always the case when I've seen other board members participate that's the challenging part and if you wanted it to be something that was a regular occurrence and just like an option at all times my recommendation then would you would need like a room monitor so that that person can be muted and unmuted because I have seen a couple times where that person just talks and you have somebody else talking and they're not listening and so they're talking over the people in the room and that makes very a very difficult meeting and challenging for the minute taker challenging for the presenter uh so yeah if if you really wanted it to be something then it does need to have a more of an it or somebody to monitor the zoom room to unlock and lock someone's ability to comment just free so would that be a second body or just or the same body uh it would be a discussion that the city manager and I would have to have with her staff and you just jogged my memory because I even in in the much larger City I came from we did not have remote options on our boards and commissions because of the it requirement yes I have an IT t team of Two and a Half people here so multiply the hours of the meetings by the year and that's the resource you're going to pull m other things in the city so it is work intensive on both the clerk and the it it's maybe it's because I'm I'll I'll add the reason I do it as a profession is but we're trained I don't have someone running the meeting for me but I'm trained to know how to moderate it so yeah there there is a lot I don't I don't know what happens you know back there when our Zoom is here but like I said I turn it off if it's not working that's it you know but um we're all trained to run effective meetings on Zoom teams or or whatever platform so I think there's there's one small Nuance to that is that when you're doing it and when I do it for work everybody's on it right and so what happens here is we've got four people and one person over there you know and we got to remember that there's a person there so I think that's really the Nuance is that it's just usually one person everybody else is physically present it ends up kind of the disrupting the flow of the meeting um yes I I I would my feeling about it particularly when you take into account the the added staff time and you know potential for technical difficulties and all that is that um is that it either is not allowed or that it would be allowed you know each member of a board or committee would have you know like it would be allowed maybe once per year in case of emergency or something like that you know but but certainly I I don't think we want it to be a a regular a regular just because I want to kind of an option um and I agree with that I I wasn't saying let's just do it all the time you know if if it's an emergency you know that's why I brought up my father-in-law you know but if if we if we allow every board member once a year between could be nine boards and five people it's still a lot of that ends up being 58 in total so I I think it's I think the easy answer is that it's just not allowed and if you have to miss you have to miss and I think it's an excellent idea to have a difference between excused and unexcused absences when when talking about attendance requirements um because I think we don't want to just eliminate people from the boards and committees who are engaged people who really want to be involved and are doing a great job because they have you know some bad luck and or you know sick one meeting and have a family emergency the next meeting or you know something like that I think we want to be careful about about setting up a scene where we're just kicking people out because they had unfortunate circumstances but I think if we have excused versus unexcused absences and then no no um virtual option I think that's fine okay so we we'll tackle one at a time so on the on the remote participation seems sounds like we have consensus on we do not allow it for the boards not the commission right just the board for the boards yeah and and even at the Comm level we do it you know normally the commissioner notifies this in advance the commissioner is notified the commissioner makes it I mean even I've made the request right so it's not I'm not exempt from it um we make the request the commission says y you're an a you know again I think most of us have maybe done it once per year if at all but no and just just just a clar because I mean it happened to me um because it was it was a death in the family but that was a commission meeting where we were doing conditional use application so it's like you know we're talking about the board it's not the commission right but I'm saying because I thought we said that if it's an excuse like it's okay to be absent I understand that but like if there's something like you really want to participate because it's um I mean everything's important then you make then you make well look I'm just bringing an example beat stewardship John kersman flew in the morning of or the evening before cuz he felt that he wanted to be part of that meeting MH and even though he wasn't scheduled to be here he flew in I mean I don't know how much more if there's a will there's a way right so okay so we have consensus no remote participation for board members okay so we can look at if we have zero time but um I mean we can extend this meeting by 5 10 minutes or we can do we need a motion for that I mean I think on talking about attendance I I think is that something we want to wait and hear back from the the individual boards because of what you were mentioning earlier with the the different numbers of times that they meet percentage Yeah so I mean okay so then we can go back to the bigger issue um and so city manager you said by crazy idea of q1 is just crazy right so um do you think this is something that could be tackled over the course of the next 12 months and here's why I thought it was simple right I think everything is simple anyway but um I figured if we lay out the groundwork or the you know it's it's cut and paste for each board okay here's your homework here's your responsibilities you know so that yes we would guide each board through it but we wouldn't have to reinvent everything for each board but rather here's a question that we need to answer question one question two question three you know this is part of your responsibilities to work on for the next 12 months um or do we say this was not discussed on Saturday and the priorities for the next 90 days and we revisit this issue in April at the next priority meeting which I'm moreing that will be my vote as we yeah I think that's a pretty good idea I mean I think we could very easily task all the boards and committees with at their first meeting this year having their own discussion about attendance policies cuz that doesn't get into the whole you know does your mission align with the with the charter um but but for anything more substantial than that I think we I I don't even think we'll need to do that we'll just I say if it's if it wasn't part of the priorities on Saturday we have our next party meeting in in April you know we tackled two of commissioner M Holland's big three items we can revisit this one does that sound fair we're making progress we've made well we got we got two thirds of the way there yep making progress two out of three down and so all and we have a plan for the other one as well so it's not like we're letting it go okay that works excellent any other comments questions thoughts all right in that case we are adjourned --------- ##VIDEO ID:0uRCFhsU4nI## e we're going to call to order this city commission meeting of the city of St Pete Beach today is Tuesday December 10th 2024 it is 6: p.m. let's stand for the Pledge of Allegiance please I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic from which it stands One Nation God indivisible liy and justice for all city clerk if you'll please do a roll call vice mayor mahand here commissioner Marriott here commissioner Robinson here commissioner is niiki here mayor Petrella here we have a quorum thank you first we have presentations the legislative update good evening good evening my name is Jim Taylor vice president of Shoemaker advisors I greatly appreciate this time just to give a quick update on what is happening in Tallahassee and what we think uh will be going on in Tallahasse starting in January ending May 2nd I just use this right here perfect well again uh happy to be here on behalf of the firm um myself and my colleague Susy um we're honored to represent this city he can't be here today he leaves flies out of Tallahassee tomorrow morning um but he has done a tremendous job representing this city um while I am new to this account I am not new to this area I'm born and raised in Tampa I still live here with uh my my wife and my four boys got a seven-year-old six-year-old and twin four-year-olds so I am thrilled to be here right now and missing putting them to sleep my wife might be a little angry at y'all that I am here um but I again happy to be here um prior to being here at Shoemaker advisers I was the government relations director at Hillsboro County for seven years uh love local government work for a county commissioner I understand the uh uniqueness uh of local government of what you have to Traverse day to day uh I also understand how important it is to work with our uh lawmakers and our partners in Tallahassee especially on the Appropriations front with that you can see over the past couple of years uh where Allen in particular has done a great job of being able to pull down uh those dollars from Tallahassee um through the job growth Grant fund obviously a resiliency project the fire fire station number 22 project which I have a feeling we'll be talking about uh again uh and uh the storm water outfall structure project now that the elections are over we now know who our leadership incoming leadership uh is going to be on the Senate side it's going to obviously Senate President uh all Britain he is in pole County Central Florida his Senator proem is Senator broer who's from the Orlando area what's good for our region for the greater Tampa Bay Region is the incoming Senate Majority Leader is Senator Boyd he represents man manate County and a sliver of Hillsboro County uh his district is much like this city understands the impacts of course of the most recent hurricanes uh and just the issues that everyone is dealing with today and we'll be dealing with for the weeks to come uh and then our Senate appr proes chair um Senator Hooper while his new Senate uh district is Pasco uh dominant he is uh you know from Clearwater was a fire chief there for a long time so again he understands this region of very well and then on the house side we have uh speaker Perez who is from Miami Dade um speaker Pro Tam Dugen from Northeast uh Florida and the House Majority Leader uh Tyler ceros he's also from East East Florida uh and then again good for our uh region of the Tampa Bay Market is uh the Appropriations chair representative McLure he is from planed city um and he is been a great great Advocate um for for our needs over on this side so we are in position definitely for the next two years with our lawmakers especially on the appropriation side to be working with them especially when it comes to um you know hurricane restoration resiliency um just getting things back up and running uh panel's County legislative delegation no change there uh news actually that came out yesterday is Chairman uh rousan went ahead and uh we have the delegation meeting which is set for January 9th uh that is a public meeting so anyone that wishes to attend can go the the uh penel County delegation will be there meeting with anyone for public comment typically panel County they do multiple delegation meetings they'll have a separate one to take up local bills um I don't think they're taking up any local bills for this meeting so this is a good time to come advocate for um the needs of your community residents to come um tell them their needs uh businesses and whatnot so that's a great opportunity I of course will be there on your behalf provide updates of what comes out of any discussion that may come out of that delegation meeting in particular and this is a big one is Senator desley he is the incoming chair for the Ted committee the tourism um and economic development predominantly the money that we advocate for you comes through this budget this Silo uh in fact Allan and myself actually met with him today and we spoke in particular uh about what those dollars are going to look like for restoration for rehabilitation Economic Development um and one thing that he is working on conceptually uh is understanding you know the the backlog in permitting he doesn't have a silver bullet he doesn't pretend to have the perfect answer but he is wildly aware of trying to make some type of Reform um and so he is beginning those discussions now we talked about that uh over lunch so we will continue those dialogues and provide um input as best as we can to him so he's going to be a fantastic Advocate uh for us not only on what needs we need for again restoration and response to the Hurricanes but also prospectively you know moving forward uh as well session so we have seven to eight committee weeks starting in January we actually we had one last week and we had one this week I just pulled in from Tallahassee about 45 minutes ago um the past two weeks have just been um presentations to newly electeds getting them used to the Rhythm and Cadence of Tallahassee uh they'll begin to hear from agency heads department heads uh in those committee meetings uh then they will the latter part of committee weeks begin to start hearing bills General bills of that nature um but March 4th that is the beginning of your legislative session and so that is the 60-day Sprint so our lawmakers all they technically have to do is pass a balance budget but of course they're going to file a lot of bills and take up a lot of bills in committees and on the floor so it's a 60-day Sprint uh typically it's nine weeks we break it up week week by week part of what my myself and Allan will be doing on your behalf of course is interfacing with our delegation members on your behalf going over you know Appropriations and then of course any policy uh that is filed uh by our lawmakers or committee bills that come uh before from department heads or agencies uh and then working of course with um Miss robelli and her staff uh to get feedback especially on the policy front um so we do that and we provide we L updates uh and that way you guys can understand kind of the flavor of what happened in committee that particular week what we did on your behalf and of course you know like okay it's week four you know uh budget conference is coming up and we're working on your Appropriations and making sure that they get into the budget um to be taken up in the final week of session um but again it is our job to provide those updates so you don't have to worry about it you're getting those weekly incoming email to let you know what myself and Allan uh are doing and partly what we do at Shoemaker advisors as well is while Allan and I run you know this this account uh Advocate on your behalf you also have access to all of our advisers as well especially if there's a subject matter expert in our firm uh they come in and and they would provide the advocacy for you as well so you have access just beyond myself and Allen as well um so session expectations kind of hit uh much of that as well um but you know starting now we started this morning um with Senator desley um we started weeks ago um with Francis team to kind of identify you know what are those you know major Appropriations that of course are going to be of major need working with our state state lawmakers to kind of get the flavor of where they're going to be putting a lot of the state dollar I think it's safe to say there's going to be uh a large amount of difference within the state budget uh for Hurricane restoration they understand what you know the greater Tampa Bay Area especially the Barry Islands what you guys are dealing with on a daily basis um so we anticipate um that uh to be a a good amount of difference from our state lawmakers but we take nothing for granted which is why we are up there um Allen lives up in tallah I live in Tampa but I drive up there rinse and repeat um so uh we make sure to make sure that they are very aware of your needs of your priorities uh as they begin to kind of craft that budget and again we would make regular updates answer any questions um that uh that you may have that staff may have um and then provide a post session report as well um of what was accomplished you know what were kind of the big themes that played out I mean it's it's political so there are politics that play out that could derail some priorities or whatnot but to let you guys all know hey here's what happened during that 60-day Sprint here's what we did on your behalf um and of course as always if you guys come up uh to Tallahassee to Advocate as well uh our office is of course full Reign to y'all and we are happy to to work with you and and set up meetings as well and take you around um Tah and meet with our lawmakers uh and committee staff as well so with that I'm going to stop and uh thank you and happy to answer any questions um that anyone may have all right well thank you so much it's been a pleasure to be up Sir actually I I will have a number of questions uh Mr Mayor I was just waiting uh go ahead Mr Taylor thanks for coming by tonight I really appreciate it sir obviously you know that uh being a Barrier Island uh with old infrastructure and now um just recently dealing with two major hurricanes we have a number of issues and like everybody else on the west coast of Florida we want money um but I do have a just a few nut and bolt questions and then maybe a couple more specific questions for you um I'm going off memory uh and please um correct me but I believe our monthly fee with you folks is5 to $6,000 is that correct that sounds about about right okay 5800 Madam city manager do you have that off the top of your head do you know okay that's fine I I I believe it's like 5,800 but I'm you know going off recollection uh does that include your expenses just the and by the way this isn't a Guta question I'm just trying to understand things sure uh I'm I'm not sure I got to look uh I got to look at the contract to see if that um I have yet to directly expense anything um to the city for for my particular travel as well I'll double check and to see what our what our contract says about travel or other ancel expenses okay thank you uh so Mr susky who's not here tonight is that how you pronounce his name yes sir Alan seski yes um how long's he's been how long has he been with the firm so he was prior to coming onto the firm he's been with the firm for uh just shy of three years myself I've been with a firm for two and a half years he had his own operation called Susy Consulting and Shoemaker advisors acquired um sesy Consulting roughly 3 years ago uh he has been a a lobbyist for 15 years he cut his teeth with Congressman young uh doing his Appropriations on the federal level and then came down and has been uh working with State clients for the past I I roughly think about 15 years so does he have a lot of Tallahassee experience I know I saw the the res res or the presentation where he has Federal experience does he have much Tallahassee experience he has incredible Tallahassee experience that is his his primary bread and butter uh over the past 15 years uh is uh advocating in Tallahassee on behalf of his clients that are State clients okay he's incredibly successful at it okay so you had uh indicated that he isn't new to the account but he's kind of new to our account would that be correct no and if that was as clear as mud that is that is on me I'm new to the account um he he has represented the city for for several years now um I was brought on uh to the account I'm just a local government guy uh and I've also lobbied Tallahassee I do both I Lobby local and and state um so I'm the new guy technically to to this account he is not okay and I apologize if that was unclear thank you I just wanted to clarify that sure I wanted to understand it uh so compared it looks like although I will say I believe that at least half of our um the grants that we've received from the city we haven't deployed now that may be our problem is almost certainly not your problem um but it looks as if uh we've received about one Grant a year since 2021 um at least as a partial result of your firm's efforts uh and a sum total of about $6 million u based on the presentation um would you say that that sounds about right that sounds about right okay but for purpose of clarity that is one I'll be happy to make sure if you would like you know the exact dollar amount um that way you have Clarity to understand what we have provided with our services yeah I don't I I don't think I mean maybe one of the other Commissioners wants EXA exact dollar amounts I don't think I need exact dollar amounts because I recognize um at least three of the four items are on your list and they do come up to in rough figures $6 million uh and like I say some of that is hasn't been deployed and that's partially on on our side of things but I wanted to understand that so based on a cost of let's just say $70,000 a year um that the city of St Pete Beach pays to shoe marker advisories or has paid um over the last four years we've received a return of $6 million in Grants from from uh Tallahassee is that pretty much what we should expect for a city of our size or um is that maybe better than we should expect or kind of right along the line because once again it seems like we've gotten one score a year yeah um and I I don't know the relation to any of that I'm kind of new to government so I'm trying to figure all this out yeah I don't necessar want to compare it necessarily to other localities because your needs are different than in other City's needs you know and other Ci's needs are different you know than yours so I don't necessarily want to compare because I don't you know again it's a bit different um but part of part of our job is to work with staff to identify to say hey we're working with our our appropriators in Tallahassee we have an idea of how they want to appropriate uh funds okay we've got we've got Beach nourishment we've got a fire station we've got a pipeline we've got sepu fill in the blank whatever that may be you know it's part of our job as kind of helping you play chess to say we think it is in the best interest to to identify these three or four projects you know and then once we identify that that could be a $600,000 project it could be a $3 million project or any anywhere in between you know because we also we have to be very um clear in terms of cost uh we don't want to be asking you know for 40 million you know they're going to look at us crossy and that is going to be ripe for a veto no doubt um you know so it's also we have to be smart with identifying those projects as where as well because we've got to work with our lawmakers and get their Buy in as well because once they put once they agree to file an appropriation for you in many respects it's it becomes their project and so we want as much Buy in as possible and working with them working with our appropriation staff as well so that once we get it into the final budget and it is passed out of Tallahassee and it then goes before the governor you know we are lobbying every step of the way um until the governor signs the budget and releases his veto list and hopefully we are not on that on that veto list um but I had to answer that question all the time when I led the government relations team at Hillsboro County you know simply being like you know what you spend x amount on my salary my coordinator's salary my contract uh lobbying salary we brought you 5 million this year we brought you 7 million this year you know overhead was only 300,000 I think it's a pretty good Roi and so the numbers just based on these numbers here I would say it's it's been a very good Roi uh for this city um but we're competitive we don't you know we want to get as much as we can for for you and you know we definitely think this year with what we're hearing from uh our partners in Tallahassee that again we think there's going to be a lot of difference in the budget especially that Ted budget um for you know the response to two hurricanes so I think I'm hopeful we'll have another good year Mr Mayor I promise I'll wrap up pretty soon uh you you uh I have one more question but you had mentioned something that I'd like to just drill down on a little bit uh You' mentioned pipeline was there a specific pipeline that you were thinking in the back of your mind when you mentioned pipeline for our city I was just using broad examples okay um of of you know obious see we got money for the the fire station I do believe uh in conversations that got impacted again um but I'm just using different silos examples uh as you deliberate what those priorities in projects should be understand we just we have a sewer pipeline that needs to be replaced really soon that's a a lot of money so I was hoping you were going to tell me that that's what you were referencing but I understand we have couple pipeline projects going on one water one sewer the water is probably a heck of a lot less than the sewer but I if you stick around for the next presentation you'll hear all about the underground sewer pipeline understood well and that's that's what we do um with M relli's team is you know talking with Camden and others to again identify those projects to make sure that again they are aligned with Tallahassee and be like okay you've got this pipeline project and it costs 6 Mill and we can tie that to the storm and we can break break down the funding that we could get from FEMA from uh you know local government and that way we can go to Senator deigle and others to say okay $4 million for this project but again that's part of process our team works on with with your staff and of course with you guys as well to identify those projects so the last question I have Mr Taylor and unless of course your answer prompts another one uh so moving forward um so Allan clearly is very experienced very uh he's familiar with the firm he's been co-oping with the firm for a number of years that's my word I should have said this he he leads our Tallahassee office so let me let me Triple down on he knows what he's doing you know he leads our runs our Tallahassee firm as as well okay but he wasn't our specific lead in recent years I think that AB he's been on this absolutely okay yes sir that's why he is included in uh in the presentation fair enough fair enough so How likely are we to get similar or better results moving forward uh is there anything in the works that maybe we should lower our expectations or uh can we maybe raise our expectations um MO moving forward well we are hyperco competitive so we want to give we want to deliver as best as possible but at the same time we don't want to set false expectations to where we say there's going to be this windfall this golden parachute because everyone is going to you know just give West Coast Florida all that tourism dollar so they can renourish all the beaches and Harden everything because that wouldn't be fair that wouldn't be fair to you because you've got a you know you've got to report to the constituents as well um you know but I will stick with in our discussions that we have had with you know Appropriations chair Hooper Senator desley um the Appropriations chair in the house there's going to be a large difference to um this region and those impacted communities just as it was two years ago uh down in Fort Meers where we saw a slew of of State dollars to go and re rehabilitate those different uh cities and communities down in Lee County and Coler County um so I I think there is a great chance of great success but we don't do anything different whether we think there's a low chance of success or a high chance of success we our goal is to deliver um as best as possible uh the product that we you know that we say that we would uh deliver on your behalf thank you Mr Mayor that's all my questions thank you sir thank you absolutely any further questions how many other Beach communities do you represent does shoemaker and um advisers represent we have Treasure Island madira Beach um uh Gulfport Oldsmar Safety Harbor those are the communities in this in this area how many um other communities do you have that were impacted by the hurricane um or should I say hurricanes hurricanes uh there could be other uh advisers in our firm that represent other communities not in this area we have we do represent um a couple of cities and counties up in the Panhandle um I do not um I do not represent those those would be other other advisers I can get I can provide you that as well I just be curious to know how many that you have represented that have had hurricane impacts in the past sure absolutely I'll provide that okay great thank you absolutely thank you all right thank you all I appreciate it thank you thank you all right next we have a presentation on the Enterprise program overview good evening mayor vice mayor Commissioners Charter officials U for the record my name is Camden Mills and I have the pleasure of serving as your interim Public Works director um this evening I'd like to give an overview on our Enterprise programs which consist of our Wastewater our reclaim water and um our storm water um I'll touch on some of our level of service overview um some of the actions that are adopted in our budget and and how we're um Meeting those or not meeting those level of service expectations um go over our budgeted revenue and expenditures we'll touch on our Capital Improvement plan um go over some of the preliminary damage assessment that we've collected so far to date associated with those utilities um discuss the current user fees and then finally some areas of opportunity u based on some of the observations that that our team has had to date um so first I'll get into our reclaim water program um at the top here you can see this this Mission state statement um that is included in our adopted budget and our our goal is to provide a highlevel um Quality Service to our community um these these action items listed here are taken directly from our adopted budget and then I included a column here uh with either a check mark or an x mark on on where we feel um that we're satisfying that that level of service criteria or not um as noted here U one of those action items is full service replacement of reclaimed laterals um from the private water box up to the public main um typically when we receive um reports of leaks um that are in need of repair our our goal would be to do that full service replacement just due to the age and condition of our infrastructure um due to some limited resources in in recent years um rather than the full service replacement we've been moving just towards um quick fixes and and maintenance repairs through the county um so that that's one item where I don't think we are are meeting our current um level of service um I'd note that our reclaim program uh currently services around 2900 customers and delivers an average of about 2.8 million um gallons per day of of irrigation water to our community in our comprehensive plan uh we do have an Initiative for portable water conservation um so I think that's that's what drives our our reclaim water program um right now to to limit that use of portable water um and and any dependency on the regional drinking water supply um in this next page here I'll show you our our current adopted um Revenue um from from our budget and noted here in red is is $400,000 um from our general fund that helps supplement the revenue um so so what we're showing here is is the revenue that we collect through this program is is not sufficient to um to meet the expenditures so we're currently supplementing that with with funds from our general fund um longterm our goal will be to you know Implement a rate structure that that adequately seeds um operational needs and and limits draws from our general fund as much as possible um with the goal of being self-sustaining Enterprise next um touching on what some of those adopted expenditures are um in total that comes out to about 1.7 million um for this current fiscal year and then as compared here you can see um our our revenue from that program is at about 1.6 um so our our revenues exceed our expenditures um the column here on the right is our our level of service shortfalls um these are values that staff has identified um that that we would need um and added to the expenditure amount in order to meet the level of service criteria um that that we want to provide um so so really here there's there's two two issues um that that we're um identifying is is one in the resources allocated but also in in the revenue collected next I'll get get into the capital program U for the reclaim water fund um that is uh $400,000 um and that consists of about 2% of our overall um CIP program these are the projects that we currently have budgeted in our fiscal 25 uh program and and that's where the the 400,000 comes from um just general repair and replacement of of Aging infrastructure the pig port installation is is associated with uh maintenance activities and then here is our current reclaim water user fees um right now we charge a basic uh basic service fee um our reclaim water is not metered um so it's not based on usage um so that's that's why right now it's just based on on uh this flat fee per month next I I'll get into our storm water program and again these are some of the adopted um action items that Define the level of service um yes sir sorry um why don't we pause at each category see if the Commissioners have any questions sure and then we can move on to the next uh category okay uh Commissioners any questions on the reclaimed water uh I do have one quick question for you Camden on the um the I think it's the slide before this one talking about the the budgeted CIP yeah no keep forward sorry you went back a little too far yeah there we go so the 3 $50,000 for repair and replacement is that um is there a is there like a a a a a feed of pipe or a number of of structures that it serves or is there any any kind of context you can give for you know how much repair and replacement do you get for that 350,000 I don't have that offand I can do some research to see in years past you know how how much that that extends um I do know um based on years past and and historically the amount that we spend in this fund uh we typically request around 430 to like 450 okay so it's about the same amount that we've spent in past years on that on the same activities correct okay thank you y and again this doesn't include or I might be wrong it does include replacement of laterals so the the replacement of laterals um would come from that repair and replacement um CIP program um the shortfall that I mentioned where we typically ask for the 430 to 450 that that's the Delta to where now we don't do the full service Replacements we do the maintenance um based on the resources okay thank you so so based on these numbers it looks like the general shortfall every year is the maintenance that we have to do on the pipes and the whole system correct y y so the amount of money that we that comes in is equal the amount of money that we get charged for the waste water sorry for the reclaimed water the money that comes in so the $25 per house right right covers what we get charged for the water correct so we don't we don't collect enough money to also pay for the maintenance we only get enough money to pay for the water that's being used that's that's correct yep that the money we collect from from our user fees um is not included with this 400,000 currently we're using the general fund to for this 400,000 and not to put you in a spot I know you just showed up in this position so I'm not in any way you know if there's any blame to be put on anyone well you know that's today's not the blame game but this $400,000 is just patching right we're not actually fixing this problems the underlying problems we're just patching it so that can the system can continue to be C you know just be serviceable we're not actually making any progress because my understanding is you know it blows up we go and Patch it and then 6 months or two years later same mon blows up again because we're not actually making any progress in in in addressing the overall problems of the system that's that's correct so typically um in in reviewing years past it seems like you know through quarters one and quarter two through fiscal year um we are able to move forward with that full service replacement and then as we're analyzing the budget and seeing you know what we're expending um based on what what is left towards the end of that year in quarter three quarter four that's when we adjust our level of service um to be more towards the maintenance repairs rather than the full service Replacements okay so if you go back to your very first slide right um where you talked about right here right that the big X at the bottom what number would we need to actually do full service rep placement rather than patching we would need um approximately about $80,000 more a year okay so we're short 400,000 every year and another 8 $80,000 would move us from patching to fixing correct okay so I hate asking why questions but how come we're not spending the extra $80,000 to make sure that the system gets fixed rather than just patched together every year if if we had the the funds we would we would continue to move forward with um with the full service Replacements but when we you know get towards the end of the year and we're at our resource limit that's that's when we adjust our level of service okay so based on the 3,000 roughly homes that you are you at some point going to provide a proposal that says or is that something that we're doing in the future today today or in the future oh in the future so that's part of all the fee studies we're we're looking at is what does it cost to run the system Okay so we've got 3,000 homes or users we're charging 25 bucks a house and we're short 500,000 roughly every year um rough numbers I'd have to do some calculations to confirm that but yeah that is that's an area of opportunity um that that we see um where rate study a comprehensive rate analysis where they look at our asset management program look at our Capital program and structure fees based on that thank you sir Mr Mayor could I ask one quick question so is uh Mr Mills is $25 per residence is that what I heard correct and and Commercial properties and multif family are currently that same so uh Condo building with 50 units in it pays $25 for their first eru and then there's an additional $25 umll fees um for every equivalent residential unit um on top of that it's going have to and that's monthly monthly correct so what about I almost hate getting into this but what about a 300 unit Hotel what do they pay they would pay um you know that base fee and then whatever equivalent you know residential unit that it comes to so of that 300 units is 300 erus then they would pay um you know 25 for that first eru and then another $25 for the additional 299 erus so 25 per or in total 25 um for a commercial property is just for that first equivalent res understand that I got that and then for every additional unit is another $25 okay so if they had 100 units it would be 200 or $2500 okay thank you if they had 100 erus correct if they had 100 erus which is not just like roughly not the is always equivalent to exactly to a unit different um calculation based on property usage but in general generality yes thank you um so then to touch on our storm water program um so the first first action item um level of service is implement a comprehensive system uh maintenance plan including Inspection Cleaning and maintenance of assets um for for this category um we do have um developed um the system of maintenance plan where where our shortfalls are is in the implementation of that um currently you know the assets that our storm water includes is is all of our storm drains all of our underground pipes our outfalls um our tide check valves baffle boxes as well as um Retention Ponds um and and the other two categories um we we are currently um meeting the adopted level of service for um and these next we'll get into um the storm water fund budget and again you'll see you'll see a similar theme here um where we do have to draw from our general fund um to help supplement the revenue um that's collected from from these utility fees and again our our long-term goal was would be to implement a rate structure that that adequately Services um this this fund so we can be um as self- sustaining as we can um this shows uh some some of our stormw water fund expenditures that's budgeted for this year um currently at $4.6 million um and then below here you can see the number that was drawn from the previous slide that that our revenue is $2.5 million so again um the the expenditures um exceed the revenues and then um to meet the level of service um we we are showing um an additional 20 26,000 that would be added on top of that $4.6 million um to meet all of our our level of service needs um and then this is our our Capital Improvement program um showing the storm water fund currently we have $3.1 million of capital projects budgeted um that comes out to about 14% of our overall CIP program and then on this slide I show the storm water projects that are currently budgeted for this fiscal year um you'll note uh that first project the watershed management master plan um i' included that on here because it's associated with storm water um but that is funded from our resiliency fund um which is which is from our general fund um but the rest of these projects here you can see um the Don is are outfall improvements U that project does include a $625,000 grant um associated with it um next I'll touch on some of the um preliminary damage assessment um that we've collected so far um from these storms um the overall damage that we've identified at this point for our storm water system is about 4% of the overall damage um that that we've um collected uh that total dollar figure uh for the storm water damage is about 950,000 um there's two components with that well well three one is um associated with cleaning and televising our entire underground storm water system system and and doing an asset inventory um to update our our asset management program as well as making repairs to the um the one storm water pump station that we currently have um that's down in pasag gril um that that sustains some damage from the flooding um getting into our storm water rates um we have two tiers U one is on a um per parcel basis it's an annual fee and then the other um tier two two is variable um based on equivalent residential units um as I understand these these uh rates were recently adopted in a resolution uh 202 24-4 and um next I'll opened up with any questions on on our storm water program thank you Camden Commissioners any questions don't be shy all all right um if you wouldn't mind just going back to the first slide and we'll walk through a couple of those items yes sir and it's going to feel like I'm putting in a spot here Camden and I guess in the way I am um recognizing that you're not responsible for the issues that we currently have but we're certainly going to be relying on you to help fix them right um So when you say Implement a comprehensive system maintenance plan what what items would fall under that that's that's a great question so that would be um reactive maintenance so dealing with with work orders as issues come up on a daily basis but but also preventative maintenance um preventative maintenance side some key components with that would be our our tie check valves and our baffle boxes that are at our outfalls um currently we have um two two workers in our storm water department and they are um pretty much dedicated to reactive type maintenance um historically looking at previous budgets preventative maintenance was accomplished through contracts um where we went we had different contracted services that that helped out with that routine maintenance um as I understand the last couple years those contracts have not been in place um so that's something that we're going to be working on Advertising um getting those secured so we can meet the needs of our our preventative maintenance as well so from a level for zero to 100% over the last I don't know five years or so how much preventive maintenance have we been doing I I don't have that number off the top of my head I'd have to do a little more you say we're meeting our expectations for preventive maintenance or we're not I would say we're not um as I understand I think it's been at least two years since we've had a contract in place for our TI check valve cleaning and our and our baffle box cleaning um and that that is you know affects um some of our outfalls in in our lowering line neighborhoods so I think um we fell short um of that currently okay so just want to make sure that I understand what you're saying so if I'm not repeating it correctly please correct me have we done any maintenance on our baffle boxes is in outfall in the last two years um to my understanding we have we have not done that preventative maintenance on those structures um when we after these storm impacts um we we hired um we didn't we use State resources um through a mission request to have a contractor clean some of those baffle boxes um and and based on you know the conditions of those looking at it I think it's been some time since those have been serviced okay were you under the impression that those items were being taken care of and we just found out after the storm that gosh darn we haven't been doing anything for two years um I no I think we our our team was aware that that preventative maintenance was lacking okay so I the reason I'm I'm keep hammering this point is because I think this is an important point um for the commission the public to understand this that we've been told for years that our systems are great that we're doing you know continual maintenance I mean how many conversations have we had about flooding and we're told everything's doing great you know it's just we're not sure where it's coming from and then there's no maintenance on the ti check valves as I understand yeah in my time here that we we haven't been conducting that preventative maintenance on again I want the public to hear this as well understand this right because you were told the same things that we were told and if it wasn't for the storm and if it wasn't for having a new city manager and a new Public Works interim Public Works director we're actually looking into all of these things I mean we're not Engineers we're not out in the field here to commission we're brought in information and based on the information we're provided with we have to make decisions and information that we've been told for years is we're doing all the routine maintenance that has to be done we we're not sure why these things are constantly failing well here's your answer if I sound mad is because I am mad I understand and I'm not and c i i you're in an unenviable position to have to stand here and I I I feel bad that you have to answer questions knowing that you did not cause these problems but I I applaud you for for being here answering these questions directly if you don't mind moving on to the next slide sure mayor can I ask add one more thing on that um because I did hear Camden say um Mr mil say that if anything it hasn't been effective maintenance or consistent maintenance it's always been reactive because I agree with mayor you know how many times have we talked about um pasor Grail Don B Vista you know on and on many many emails but I know it hasn't been consistent maintenance or repair it's always been reaction you know reactory not not a schedule um I I don't think I've ever seen consistent maintenance I don't even know if two years prior I don't know what that contract even looked like the outfalls I think were constructed maybe or were under construction during that time but had been told the importance of having to maintain them and then knowing that they hadn't been right so that you know when we approve as a city outfalls it was always asked well what's the money to maintain them because we're we're putting all this new stuff out there but we are not budgeting what the true maintenance consistent maintenance not reactory you know like it's the Barnacles are growing okay let's go or and I know you guys went out recently um maybe it was a week two weeks ago or something like that to try to clean them out to see if we can get these things working again um now of course we have damage as well so I'm sure you're finding finding that out but that our city truly doesn't have a budget which I think is what you're trying to tell us is we don't have a true budget um staff positions that just work on maintaining and cleaning every outfall storm water drink um out there all the time on a weekly basis I I agree with you and and my concern is right the staff comes to US every year and says here's the money that we need here's the projects that we need to work on here's what it's going to take right have you you've been paying attention watching for a long time and and I've seen you before from there and now from here always talking about flooding TI check valves and so on have you heard at any point that we've got a 2 million ion doll annual deficiency no oh not for maintenance no no just in general for this for the storm water program is we're looking at what two two and a half million dollar deficiency right and that's not including what it would take to actually get us to doing a good job another $226,000 a year right the information that we've been fed as a commission whether intentionally or through negligence or incompetence I don't know has has not been accurate because you're the first person that I've been here for almost two years now and at no point has anyone come and said hey we're missing $2 million to actually do a good job for this just and we've got what three four things we're going to look at today and the first one was short 500,000 this one is short 2 and a half million if we were supposed to do it correctly yes right so how are we supposed to make good decisions if we don't get appreciate you bringing us good information okay I I do not envy you being in in that in that seat right now but I appreciate it I it can't be easy and I I want I do thank you because this is the information that we actually need to be able to make think about all the decisions we've made in the last two years based on everything is great and we haven't gotten to the sewer system yet right get ready okay we'll come back about the decisions we've made the last two years based on all this information or lack thereof or misinformation and Mr Mill is it safe to say that 2.5 million is really not what we need right that's you're talking about a shortfall you're not giving us this is what we need to fix the maintenance issue right like what how much it would cost staff how much it would cost equipment um to really go out there and maintain all the outfalls and and storm water like that's not the budget that we're missing correct so so what's shown here is that um the the expenditures that we have planned is 4.6 million that exceeds our Revenue so that's that's where the you know $2 million differences there the $226,000 shown that's the need to get us um to be able to provide the high quality level of service that our that our budget adopts um I will note that we do have um some budgeted positions in their storm water department so we will'll be adding two more people there and we're also going to be um pursuing um some competitive contracts to get contractors on board to help supplement the maintenance as well and our our team's goal is is to be um you know this isn't news that that I'd like to share with you either but we we want to be as clear as possible and make sure that you guys are aware of the resources um that we think is needed um to to provide the level of service that that our community desires and and I appreciate that then again realizing that you've been in your position five months yes sir city manager less than that right and you're coming in here stumbling into this information and and I I appreciate you bringing it to us and as much as we don't want to air out dirty laundry I think it is important for the community to get a clear picture because a lot of these things came to light as a result of what's happened during the two storms and I think it's important for the community to see exactly what the true picture is of some of these uh some of these systems so thank you for that Mr Mayor yes sir so just a couple words Mr Mills one I hope you don't burn out and two keep speaking the truth thank you well said Thank you so next we'll get into our our Wastewater uh program again same mission statement uh providing high quality level of service to our community you'll see some of the first um adopted action items um that we feel that were're we currently deficient in in our level of service needs um and and that is you know develop and implemented a pipe inspection program a manhole inspection program and as well as um addressing our fats oils and and grease um I will say on on items two and three we have developed a a comprehensive uh manhole and pipe inspection program uh where we currently fall short is is on the implementation of that and and on the fats oils and greases um that that's another item that that we haven't been addressing um recently uh we do have an open position um for an inspector um that'll help um us um satisfy that that program moving forward um our Wastewater program um there's there's a lot of infrastructure associated with that about 200 200 2.8 miles of force M about 41.5 miles of gravity lines um over 750 manholes um three Master pump stations and then 18 um lift stations um so in total um the revenues and expenditures associated with this Pro program um services that infrastructure um I will note as as I understand um back in 2016 we were operating um beyond our capacity at at about 130% um which resulted in some sanitary sewer overflows and environmental impacts um that led to a uh consent order from the Florida Department of Environmental Protection and ultimately on a moratorium on further development um since then there was a uh Force main Improvement project um that really updated the backbone of our transmission system and including some lift stations and as I mentioned the force Main and the goal of that was to um improve um for for buildout of our community redevelopment District um however I would note that the system does not currently have um full capacity to build out all of the islands Parcels um per our comprehensive plan um due to um the limitations at the bottleneck which which would be our Master Pump Station one your slide current uh these are just outome points sorry can you repeat that last thing you just said our system is where um that was just noting back um some some U Back in 2016 that that we reported that we were over capacity um since then we did the forest main Improvement project and constructed three additional lift stations um the goal of that was to improve um capacity in our system and I would note um right now the pump station one is is our limited um you know the the bottleneck in our system that that limits our capacity so right now we could not fully build out to you know all the limitations within our comp plan on Parcels across the island until that uh Master Pump Station one is is upgraded so at the current level where we're at today of units on the island what capacity are we running at right now as far as i a a percentage wise you said you were running 130% previously right so today based on you said we couldn't build out to full capacity so right now with the number of units that we have what capacity are we running at i' I'd have to um go through some further data and follow up with you on that number of exactly how much capacity we have in our system I know that Forest main project did add a quite um quite a bit of capacity um to allow for some Redevelopment in that community redevelopment District um but that exact number on on where we're at I I'll have to do some research and follow up with you on okay I'm going to hold you to that yes sir that is a number that I think it' be important to understand okay because we do have some big decisions coming before the Commission in the next couple of weeks and months that will be impacted by that number okay understood and again you you said that that New Forest main uh was beneficial to the uh Redevelopment District how did that impact on the residentials it um it has an impact on them too because that Force M ultimately feeds to our our Master Pump Station one so that that improved um systemwide capacity um and and an observation um that were not in here is is really the lacking of of the implementation of preventative maintenance again and and keeping up with our um Asset Management planning um and and just being short on resources from a funding personnel and and contractual standpoint um I want to note in in fiscal year 24 um it's reported that we accomplished about 10% of our uh preventative maintenance work orders through the fiscal year so again in this program um very reactionary based on the resources we C that was this year last last year so 23 or fiscal year 24 thank you yes sir so so we did 10% of what we know to be required for maintenance preventative maintenance um so um extending the useful life of of the infrastructure we have um we have been well at keeping up with the um reactionary maintenance um side of things but again um due to um you know funding personnel and and lack of contracts in place um that's fell short um here is again the revenue from our adopted budget um similar theme that we that we draw from our general fund um to help supplement the program um this $3.8 million um was dedicated to that Master Pump Station one Rehabilitation um um you know when when large capital projects happen over time you know it's not untypical to draw from your general fund but not something that that we plan to do every year um our our goal like with reclaiming storm Waters we want this to be as self- sustaining um as as we can this shows some of the um budgeted expenditures in in fiscal year 25 um totaling about 15.3 million um in order to meet the level of service um that that's adopted um we're forecasting that we would need an additional 1.6 million and then um you can see here on the bottom that the revenue collected um from our Wastewater fund is is only 9.4 million um so again um some of the observations is is just shortfalls in both resources allocated and and the revenue collected next I'll get into our Capital Improvement plan um for our Wastewater fund uh we currently have $7.3 million budgeted in our CIP um this equates to about 31% of our Capital Improvement program here is some of the current projects that we have budgeted in fiscal year 25 that make up that $7.3 million um the biggest of which is that Master Pump Station one um it's also important to note here um Force main one improvements for $40,000 um those 40,000 is to complete the remaining of the preliminary engineering study um that being conducted U for the Force main one replacement in future fiscal years we will ask for um design on that and then eventually construction um and and i' you know that may be the pipeline um that vice mayor was mentioning earlier um but that's a project um that that will be a very big project that'll be coming to you guys in in short time um next I wanted to touch on our Wastewater Pump Station one and some of the funding specifically tied to that um we have a Florida Department of um Economic Opportunity job growth Grant um associated with this project that's providing $2 million of funds um here's here's the timeline um just a brief overview um from my understanding of this project in 2022 we were awarded the grant um from fdeo in March and may of 2024 um we amended the grant agreement to ask um for some extensions as well as ref finding some of the scope in October of 2023 or of 2024 um our city manager reported to you that that Grant was terminated and on November 4th um the fdeo um agreed to to reinstate that Grant um they agreed to reinstate that Grant under two compliance conditions uh one of which is that we provide proof of all purchase orders Associated um with the draw down of that $2 million by February 1st of 2025 and that we also provide all reimbursement requests um by April 11th 2025 um it's important to note a good chunk of that $2 million is associated with equipment that um the city is directly procuring that we do have purchase orders for and and that we've submitted it to fdeo um so once those um payments are fulfilled um we'll we'll submit our reimbursement requests um staff does not currently have um any objections um to these to these two conditions um but one thing I'd like to bring to your attention is some of the job growth metrics um that is tied to this grant so after completion of construction um up until December 31st 20 34 we have to track performance metrics um to show that we're we're meeting the goals of of fdeo and and that's what's shown here uh minimum private capital investment of over $250 million and the creation of over um300 jobs um that we can show that this project added capacity to our system um allowed for redevelopment and then we we track that and and submit that to um to fdeo and then on this slide um this shows some of the Redevelopment projects um that were that were associated um with this with this Grant application um So currently um unless we receive Direction otherwise we are U moving forward with administering this grant next I'll get into uh the preliminary damage assessment associated with two hurricanes um for our Wastewater system that comes out to about 35% of the damage that we've collected to date um and that comes out to about $7.6 million um a majority of that damage was from Helen um sustained from the flooding um that was damaged to some of our um electrical um components that were submerged um from the water um and and rendered inoperable um and and from Milton U we we um received some minimum damage um from there um I'd like to know that we have ordered um some temporary um control panel replacements for those panels that have been damaged um directly from our manufacturer the goal from that is to get the five bypass pumps that are still currently online um to be back to to pre-storm conditions um we anticipate that the installation will be um operational within two months on those systems um we're still waiting on lead time from that manufacturer um but the those temporary control panels will allow us to keep the system operational and functioning but um we will still need to move forward with permanent panel Replacements um which need to be built by the manufacturer um the lead time that we're expecting on that is about 8 to 12 months would we be looking to raise the the height for those control panels we are yep on some of our critical um lift stations we're we're proposing to to add some mitigation measures um and to be a little bit more resilient um the goal there is to be able to when we are impacted by a storm um to be able to bring back online some of our critical infrastructure like our fire station City Hall public works as as quickly as possible um on here um showing some of the damage to our Master Pump Station one um to date we've performed about 131,000 of emergency repair work um the remaining work um left to get that to pre-storm conditions is about $1.9 million and this in or this uh lift station facility is insured um so we'll be pursuing insurance claims um we'll also be submitting our damage assessments to to FEMA our 20 other lift stations um the emergency work conducted today is about $450,000 um the remaining work is about $3 million um so in total we're about $3.4 million um worth of damage sustain to th to that infrastructure um the insured value shown on here at $1.9 million is for Lift stations two and three uh we're currently coordinating with our insurance company to see of of the other 18 lift stations are also insured as well and we've submitted our our dam damage assessment to to FEMA um so as we work through our our process of storm recovery um and we start to get more concrete numbers from our insurance and FEMA um we'll be shared assure that with the commission and the last um damage component is is our underground pipe system in our manholes um we're proposing $2 million to do um cleaning and flushing and televising of our system and lastly here I'll get into our Wastewater user fees um so as you can see these these fees were recently adopted in ordinance 20246 um these are monthly rates um that that are the same um for residential and and Commercial usage um as you can see in the previous slide um you know the revenue that's collected and I know these fees were recently updated but not too much different than what they were previously um so believe you know we still have a shortfall between what we're collecting and and what um we plan on spending based on um providing a high level of service um would you like to take some questions now or would you like me touch on some of the areas of opportunity let's do questions okay go ahead so Mr Mills you may be getting to this I'm just I wasn't I didn't participate in the early budget process this year I wish I had have but I didn't um so our our fees for sewer uh H how we we pump it to St Petersburg just so I understand things and it looks like we base our rates based on the number of gallons we pump over there is that how we base our rates um I currently um do not couldn't tell you exactly how how those rates are based off of um from my understanding um I don't believe like a comprehensive rate study has been conducted recently um so I'm not sure exactly what um you know what how those rates were determined yeah I thought there was more to the Matrix than just gallons so I was just trying to understand that I thought maybe you knew but um I think it's water water usage I mean that I know cuz I was just hit on my b significantly which I need to appeal because um we haven't used as much water at my house and um it is by usage and through that tier tier rate right but I was just trying to understand from I I believe St Petersburg charges us on a different Matrix but I I don't know the answer to that that's why I do I I just don't have those those values on okay well I think that's something we probably moving forward need to understand I think we've all operated under the assumption that is based on gallons um I certainly have uh and maybe it is but I think there's more to that um Matrix than maybe we all think and I think we probably moving forward because we got a lot of decision there's a lot of work that needs to be done you know better than anybody uh there's a lot of work and a lot of money that's needed here and it's not all going to come in in the form of insurance or femur or the like uh so we're going to in the next several months have to be taking some hard look at a number of things um so I'd like to maybe understand that a little bit better um just what that full Matrix is is it just strictly gallons or is there more to that story um and I sense that there may be more to that story and I think we need to understand that before we start making budget decisions uh moving forward understood yes the the monthly rate charged um to the residential Comm commercial is based on gallons usage um but how we set that rate that should be based on maintenance needs and capital needs and include you know different components well and also what we're charged right because there and what we're charged right because there's not a direct linkage between a resident's Gap bons and what the city's getting charged from St Petersburg for sewage is is is that not correct I thought there was there was more to that story that apparently none of us fully understand but I at least have a sense that maybe there's something else there it is based on gallons that we that we send to St Pete um the charge that they that they send to us but our overall rate structure it should ENC capitate that you know what what we have to pay St Pete but it should also incur you know maintenance in capital needs so they charge us based on gallons yes as I understand but um I'll confirm that and follow up maybe maybe if you could clarify that okay um I I don't know if I knew I wouldn't be asking the question but I think there may be more to that story okay want to go back to slide one actually let's let's The Pump Station one's as good at place as any okay what was the condition of Pump Station one before the storm it uh was in need of replacement it was it was near the end of its useful life um so that we did have a CIP Pro or project programmed um for rehabilitation at that so yep and and you mentioned earlier that the bottleneck is one of the bottlenecks Pump Station one correct all all sanitary sewer flows on the island ultimately go um to that Master Pump Station one before it's discharged off the island of St Pete okay just correct me if at any point my analogy falls apart here but so before we did the undergrounding project s the sewer project on Gul Boulevard we essentially had one gravity fed line servicing all of St P Beach and that went to pump station one I think it was a force main that fed to pump station one but um I was still see yeah but it was a single line right so then we double the capacity or we increased the capacity whether it was double or whatever it was when we added the west side of Gulf Boulevard with a new sewer line that was associated with that Force main Improvement project yes and you know the hole at Pump Station one remained the same right so whether we have two lines five lines or 100 lines they all terminate at Pump Station one correct okay so the capacity is bottlenecked by this pump station and that we knew was at the end of its effective life at least two years ago if we based on the grant request I think that'd be safe to assume okay and then the the the work that we're doing now is $1 130,000 already expended another $1.9 million to to be spent that's to bring it back to where it was 60 days ago it does there is some overlap um between new components so some of the replacement parts um that would be um components that were damaged from the storm that need replacement were also same components that we were proposing to replace as part of that project okay so once we Place Pump Station one so the last person who stood here before us told us we have all the capacity that we could ever need now that seems to contradict what you said about five minutes ago that we couldn't possibly build out everything that we have in the comprehensive plan allowed not until that pump station one is upgraded currently where we're at today currently we do not have the capacity correct right the reason I keep harping on this point is again this is important for the public to understand that this commission including three of us who are here today have made decisions based on the information that we were told about the capacity of our sewer system at the time of the application not in the future once the repair work was done okay I can't speak for the other Commissioners who voted differently than I did so I don't know what they would have done if they had different information but the reality is we all relied on that information to make those decisions and now the information that we find out it is vastly different from what we were told and we haven't even gotten to the fun Parts yet right so when you look at you know we we keep talking about a pipeline it's not a pipeline right it's it's it's a sewer line correct and that sewer line is because we've talked about money that we short money that we need immediately and then there is money that we're going to need in the very near future I mean those are your words you said in the very near future we're going to have you're going to be bringing information to us about the pipeline or the sewer line that goes from Pump Station one across the bay correct correct when you say in the near future you talk in the next 6 months in the next six years um less than six years um So currently in our budget we are projecting um to have that construction take place in fiscal year 2029 um I I would propose that we try to expedite that um to be as as soon as we can um up in maybe fiscal year 28 um which will give us some time to um complete the design okay so you're talking about finishing the project in 28th or starting in starting okay starting in 28th okay I've asked this question to the person who was standing here before three times over the last 12 months this exact the exact same question and the answer I got the last three times was 8 to 10 years not four years 8 to 10 years and the last time I asked that question was in April decisions were made in this city based on the information that we received from public works and from the city manager's office not the current city manager not the current inent Public Works director right there's a big distinction here rough idea of what that pipeline is going to cost about $15 million um currently is what was shown in in the budget um I have not reviewed the the preliminary analysis done um where different Alternatives would be considered um but I would say you know $15 million is probably a ballpark um to chew on for now um but with that um I think we also need to you know consider some resiliency and and possibly some redund in our system okay so 15 Millions for for the replacement sewer line from Pump Station one six 6 and a half million for Pump Station one corre how much for the other preventative for preventive maintenance to raise the lift stations electrical and everything else um that is a good chunk of that $2.9 million shown here um for for remaining work and and mitigation measures so 3 million 6.5 million we're 10 million plus 15 million we're $25 million and we have a $2.5 million annual budgetary deficit okay so we we're not even meeting our current obligations and somehow in the next five years we've got to come up with $25 million that that was not the question for summarizing I'm I'm just thank you I'm summarizing it okay if you don't mind going to the first slide and I'm I'm going to apologize if I sound mad is it is because I am actually livid would probably be more appropriate so you're telling us we're doing roughly 10% of the maintenance that we know we should be doing preventative maintenance okay so we're not even in forget doing the maintenance we're not even inspecting our pump stations we're not inspecting our manholes we're not inspection inspecting our pipes uh we are inspecting our our lift stations but our our manholes and pipes um we can improve on okay so we're not even doing the basic inspection to find out if we need to be doing preventive maintenance and that that's something we have proposed in our our current fiscal year budget is to do um televising with a camera of our sewer system and based on the results and engineer we'll look at that and analyze and develop our our long-term maintenance um and repairs um based on the results of that now with the exception of Mr moholland but you've also been paying attention for a long time most of you have been either on boards or actively involved in the city do your knowledge have you ever heard because in my recollection I keep hearing the opposite that hey we're doing everything we're supposed to be doing yeah we could use an extra staff person that would be great but really for all intents and purposes no one's coming asking for more staff because we don't have the resources or the people to do the inspections no one's telling us we need more resources more money no one said hey we're we're short $2.5 million doar a year right so again as commissioner mallin said I appreciate the truth and I thank you for it but the reality is is we've been making decisions at at the very best incomplete information if not downright deceptive information I wish I could read my own handwriting on the if you would mind going forward a couple slides um to the to the grant one back okay so we received a grant two and a half years ago because two and a half years ago well we received a grant 2 and a half years ago because probably three or four years ago we knew that pum station one was deficient then we've amended the Grant and then in October the grant was terminated can you please explain to the commission and to the public the circumstances under which the grant was terminated um the circumstances on which the grant was terminated um was based on the fact that we had not um provided any um any draw Downs on that $2 million up to date um so the fdeo was concerned um that the fact that we had not emitted any requests for reimbursements up to that point um that they weren't going to be able to obligate the funds and um on their on their side of things so sounds like we were der elct on paperwork um I I think at that point we hadn't um exhausted the funds yet um we recently just secured those purchase orders um for that equipment um that I mentioned um just in the in the time frame that that I've been here okay but a simple phone phone call to them would have been like hey we're working on this you know so what what caused them to take a drastic step to the point that to say we're going to terminate your $2 million Grant based on on not being able to um not requesting any funds and and I i' I'd like to note too um those amendments that were done prior uh originally this grant was slated to be complete I believe in June of 2024 um so that that was one of their main concerns was you know we were past that date of the original Grant and and hadn't shown um any progress on that so this grant is tied to pump station one right so generally the way it happens just for the public right you say you have a project you want to work on you want to replace a pump station the first thing you do is you go get plant and engineering done right design correct you have your design then you go out and you get bids right you get bids you bring them before the commission the commission looks at the bids they vote they approve one of the bids and then work commences so in this four-stage process where are we today in this in this process um the design plans are completed um the Construction contract has been awarded and now um we are in the process of of procuring materials and then um once those they're some of them are long lead items um and once those are closer to being um to deliver is when we'll break ground on construction but we do have the contractor um secured and in a regularly meeting with them so this was based on the original Grant application we were supposed to be done with this project 6 months ago and so far we haven't even finished procuring all the materials that we need to break ground correct okay and and I know you all think why does he keep harping on about this I want you to understand exactly the situation that we're facing and where we are in the city and and and kind of how we got here today you know on the fees which I think is next up okay I know we looked at this briefly during during the budget session but again the city manager came in two weeks prior to that meeting so that budget wasn't yours um our finance director came in after that based on the numbers that you're telling us so you're saying this is these are expenses and here are receivables right roughly we take in about half of what we need right so we would have to double the fees to get to 100% of what our expenses are is that relatively Fair assessment that might we off or I think that in general generality I think that's that's a fair assessment um you know part of part of that um that would need to be considered is you know long-term maintenance and replacement of other projects but yeah yeah that that doesn't that just gets us to breaking even on the budget not the additional money that you had for us to be doing our preventative maintenance and inspections and everything else correct right okay so we were sitting here at a budget meeting in July and we request you know the proposal came that we increase these fees by a certain amount the amount that we increased them by I have to go back and it was but it was it was dollars two or3 two a month not double and the reason we did that is because we were told if it increase it by this amount it's going to cover 50% of the shortfall or the number close to that and forgive me I don't I don't I generally don't remember the exact number but the decision of the commission at that time was based on the numbers that we were given the numbers that we were given based on the numbers that we have today either your numbers are way off or the numbers from several months ago are way off your numbers don't help you in any way at all so I'm more inclined to take your very very ugly numbers as being closer to the reality than than the fairy tale that we were sold six month months ago okay I know your next slide was uh after these was kind of looking at what the future holds and what so I I but before we get there I just want to see if any of the Commissioners have any more questions based on um this just shockingly disturbing information that as before us I I have a question on the sub aquous line um I know you're saying slated for we're now slated for 2028 four uh four years from now is what you're looking at what is the uh projected end of life on that line um I would need to check on I haven't reviewed the plary engineering study on that on on what those projections are um a sub aquous type of line may have a shorter lifespan but I would I would think we would be shooting for like a 40 50 year range I confirm that and follow up okay thank you commissioner Robinson were you asking about the the lifespan of the of the one that's currently in place or the one that the one that's C currently in place oh the one that's currently in place that one is near the the end of its useful life yes yep is that thank you projected at 2029 are we getting really close to that my understanding is around six years um from now so we're going to start this in four years with a two yearh but not really because it'll be 2029 by the time it's completed so we'll be within a year of basically what we're saying the six-year lifespan correct but let me let me confirm that that six-year number and follow up with you and with and and I do remember in the in the presentation it w it was 20 years okay it was in that 20 years because I remember asking aren't we using cameras to look at that and we were told um not yet but we were had told before that that they had been inspected or were being inspected and and I I know it was around the 20e range because that's what threw me off we were trying to approve these fees which I wasn't very happy to have to do um anyways the my another question um just to kind of think of the Futures I don't know what you're you're might be proposing but because you said it bottlenecks right at at at Plum station one um since you're new here as an engineer do you do you propose maybe doing something different like why are we going to continue to bottleneck everything um if we have two lines running down Gul Boulevard why not have another Pump Station at and I know this is money but again I'm thinking if the life of it is 40 50 years then we'd be talking about this again you know that it's bottlenecking and doing the same thing and maybe then we've added more capacity already to to that line so are we going to try to plan so we're not continuing to do the same thing I think as as part of when we review that preliminary engineering study that's done in different Alternatives I think one of the Alternatives that should be considered is redundancy um so we're we're not dependent just on one station or or one line um of course there's you know additional costs associated with that but I think that from a benefit cost standpoint that that's something that should be analyzed and and will be analyzed do you know if this is one of the priorities that might have mentioned we had the lobby is speaking to us earlier today and mentioned priorities from the city um but is this one of the things that okay I see the nodding on that side so I have uh submitted initially um an Appropriations focus on this pipeline to across the bay as well as Fire Station 22 so those are the two I've raised right now as most most critical okay could I clarify one thing and and uh um commissioner R Niki was just asking about the you know like what what are we doing if we're going to have the same bottleneck and and I want to make sure I understand this correctly that that the the bottleneck is pump capacity not the size of the pipe necessarily that goes under the bay is that correct um yes yeah that would be correct currently yeah so it's it's not that it's not that we have all this capacity flowing down Gulf Boulevard and then it literally bottlenecks into a smaller pipe that doesn't get fixed the problem is that we have this capacity flowing down Gul Boulevard that goes to a pump that doesn't have the capacity to pump the volume okay thank you correct yep and then that's really um some of the components that's associated with that Rehabilitation is a lot of that infrastructure is going to remain in place the upsizing of the pumps is is a major component of that okay thank you okay to move on um so next want to touch on some of the areas of opportunity um that that we've seen um so far um first is you know performing a comprehensive Enterprise utility rate analysis I I would recommend that we um conduct that for for all three utilities um I think the theme we've seen here is that we're underfunded um in fees globally um as I understand the last storm water rate study uh was conducted in 2011 um I'm not sure on when a reclaim or or Wastewater study um was last conducted um but really our goal would be you know address current disparities and and create a more balanced rate structure um that's fair and Equitable um but also you know serves and supports our our level of service um next would be storm water and wastewater system cleaning and televising um systemwide um that'll help restore some of the capacity in the system and help us analyze the results um of that data collected um to plan for operational and maintenance as well as capital Improvement projects moving forward um proposed to update our storm water asset inventory and GIS um this will help us with our our work order management um currently some of those baffle boxes and TI check valves um we we don't have inventor in in that GIS environment um so getting those inventoried as well as um the remaining balances of our um of our infrastructure will help us uh plan plan forward for maintenance um next would be securing contracts uh for our routine preventative maintenance um that'll be generator maintenance um associated with our lift station um commercial diving services for our storm water outfalls and TI check valves and um pump trucks and and pump take services for our lift station wet well and and manhole cleaning um I'm proposing that we we restructure um the organization structure within within our public works department um to serve more efficiently um and and also fill some of our budgeted um Personnel positions that that are currently open um and ultimately adopt level of service criteria based on based on our community needs um for instance right now um I don't believe we have any adopted level of service to address title flooding um so that's something I would like um to identify in a policy and get that adopted and and I think that can be accomplished with the update to our watershed management plan and thank you for your time this evening um open up for any other questions I have one question I'll get to the question first and then I'll get to the comment um looking at these three major systems that we have and the significant uh budgetary deficiency that we've had for each one of them and I know you haven't been around long enough but is this something that is this year or is this something that was the same thing happened last year the year before the year before um I I can't speak to that sorry okay um I would imagine it it's probably a compounding issue okay um city manager if you don't mind just looking that for the next time just give us a I would like to have an idea so this is again you I know you just came in and cam you just came in as well and I'm sure this is as shocking to you as it is to to me and the commission here um but I would like to understand whether we had similar shortfalls in the previous years and the reason I'm asking this information is because we were told that we had a $1.4 million surplus last year we actually did a uh millage tax rate reduction based on that good news and we had a $1.3 million surplus the year before that I'm trying to understand whether those surpluses were real realized surpluses or just surpluses on paper because because somebody was playing hideand-seek with information um okay to my comment um I just want to say thank you um to both of you and the city manager I know this information couldn't have been fun or easy to present I appreciate the fact that um as commissioner mohal said you're trying to present the truth and they not trying to sweep it under the rug and paint us paint us a Rosie picture here because a picture is anything but Rosie I think when we're looking at the next 5 years it's going to be incredibly difficult the budgetary deficiencies that we have are somewhere in the $4 to5 million based on simple easy math here and that's not including the $25 million we'll need right so that's just to get us to break even and then we'll need another $25 million over the course of the next five years to address these major projects that we have and and that is if no other major projects happen right if nothing else comes you know to light because of two major hurricanes that we've had so I I appreciate it and I particularly appreciate the fact and that you've put forth a plan on on how to address the current deficiencies that we have by hiring additional staff by looking at the rate Studies by looking at the budget and making sure that the commission has good and accurate information that we can base the decisions on that we need to make so I appreciate that I appreciate um would you bring us information and to Mr moh's point I hope you'll be around for the next five years to help us you know figuratively and literally clean up this mess so thank you thank you next we'll move on to the approval of the agenda Commissioners do you have any amendments to the agenda as proposed Mr Mayor I don't know if you want it now or at the beginning of consent I just have a minor um clarification on the minutes do you want that now or before we do the consent uh probably pull it out and we can discuss it and approve it separately okay so we're going to pull 5 a we're going to move that to 6f okay any other amendments to the agenda mayor I'd like to request uh we have a special guest here this evening to put put a recognition from you um ahead of the Helen and Milton recovery efforts thank you any other amendments is there a motion to approve the agenda as amended motion to approve the agenda as amended Second City Clerk if you'll please do a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner Riki yes vice mayor mahand yes May patella yes motion carries thank you next we have a special guest with us Robin Miller where are you Robin is no stranger to standing before the commission and now we have a proclamation Robin I would like to read this Proclamation and if uh like to give the opportunity to say a few words um so this is a proclamation whereas the city of St Fe Beach takes great pride in saluting the remarkable individual whose work makes a significant impression to the city and whereas Robin Miller CEO and president of the Tampa Bay beaches Chamber of Commerce has been committed to supporting local businesses and enhanced economic developing development for nearly 17 years especially along the barrier islands and whereas during her tenure Robin Miller spearheaded at the popular Institute for leadership program and worked tirelessly to bring the Tampa Bay Beach's Chamber of Commerce to the Forefront as a key leader in tourism now therefore be it resolved that the mayor St P Beach and the city Commission on December 10th 2024 hereby officially recognize Robin Miller for 17 years of significant and excellent contribution to the businesses residents and visitors of St Pete Beach [Applause] thank you mayor thank you commission thank you Francis uh and everyone on the beaches I I I love I love the Barrier Islands you know obviously I love St P Beach and I I'm I knew I wasn't going to cry I I thought I wasn't going to cry and I'm like leaders lead they don't cry and um you know one of the things I just said at the last event I was just at is that um the communities of the Barry Islands have lifted our organ ganization up and we H have a seat at the table and we have a seat at the table in tourism and economic development and resiliency and Tampa Bay Regional planning Council and and that was the long road right to do that and so I'm very confident that your your chamber is in very good hands with our board of directors and there's going to be more great things to come to elevate the organization for the Barrier Islands through your recovery efforts um this started for me and August I just timing is never right for anyone to have a personal or professional change as I I sought counsil uh with our newcomer that had to leave a community too so I appreciate all of you and thank you so much hold [Applause] record you want to your [Laughter] cop and and if I may I'd like to also thank Robin for for all that she does for the businesses like like many of the of the business owners in St P Beach I spent years feeling like the best thing that I could do for my business was to make sure that nobody in this building knew who I was and it was it was only thanks to Robin for for hosting um uh meetings with with City staff in City Hall for the local businesses to come and share their thoughts and get to know the the folks in city government that um that that got me involved and so thank you so much you you you're amazing yeah and Robin I'd also like to add and for the for Community to know that you're not only just were working for your businesses you were working for the residents as well well um during the most difficult times um through the Hurricanes you sent countless emails to us so that we could share to the residents not just for the businesses so and most people don't know that so thank you thank you next we have item number three a presentation on the hurricane recovery efforts hi good evening Denise Sanderson community development director Mr kurman saw me walking to my car earlier today and was concerned that they canceled the meeting because he he thought perhaps I wasn't presenting so I assured him that no I will I have a standing item and and am indeed presenting this evening so this is your your usual update on the operations um surrounding our recovery efforts is largely geared of course to the Community Development activities building planning zoning code enforcement and the like so so tonight's agenda really focuses on substantial damage determinations the substantial damage appeals process multistory structures new uh sisd review package the permit status update intake hours Staffing update minimal repair permits historic preservation applications long-term housing recovery and a couple of miscellaneous things so this hopefully will not take all that long but um do want to mention here that we do have a community meeting tomorrow evening in City Hall from 5:30 to 7 and we will have Fe FEMA Representatives on site to answer questions so firstly substantial damage determination so to dat we've received 2,97 excuse me there are 2,976 inspections that have been completed according to the Title Basin data that we've received 215 of those are non-residential and the balance of those are residential we did see receive very large transfers of data this past week we were excited to see that um as you know that had been held up for a couple of weeks I think they were working through some software glitch issues if you will but we received some really substantial overused term a really large number of data files there as you can see on Friday we received 658 there is a significant process that that the team needs to go through when we receive this data it is raw data and that you know there are no no formulas in that so we we do need to make sure that it came across cleanly sometimes there are duplicates of record that need to get cleaned up and then of course we WE Post these um into the ior portal uh and and generate the letters and and then do the mailing so um the letters that we received on December 2nd we received 265 of those just as of note 42 of those were duplicate as an example um duplicate of previously received information those letters did go out on December 6 uh 658 of them were received on Friday and those letters will go out by next Monday is our estimate um so as you can see there in blue to date we have 463 determinations that have been issued uh with 2400 still pending review and and again all of that is largely at title basis you can see uh down below um how that's broken out between commercial and residential so the appeals process so we we've developed a a an appeals form a reassessment form uh we're cleaning up a couple of miscellaneous items on that to make sure it's easy but the real announcement here is we we've set up a separate email address it will go as SD appeal at St p stpete beach.org and that is that all of those appeals are going to a single point of entry um it would be flagged appropriately its own inbox so that we can process those accordingly multi-story structures this isn't really a new policy this is really tagging on to the policy that we brought forth last week and you all came to consensus on and we've implemented this is about multi-story structures and how we're going to be approaching those so as you can see for those that are four stories and above we can make very broad assumptions that those are likely not to be damaged greater than 30% so no um you know the Assumption there that there's not not substantial damage and therefore under 30% no sisd review is going to be required that I think will very significantly allow us to expedite permits and that of course is for even the ground floor units right because the way that that FEMA looks is at this is that it's at the structural level that those determinations are made when you get into the three store you know in theory you could go up to 33 and A3 per right um really that is most likely in sisd review is not going to be required we uh may need to see some permit or excuse me some photos to see if there's roof damage or other kinds of structural damage and then the building official can determine make a determination about whether or not an sisd review is going to be required for that but certainly the presumption is generally going to be that it's not substantially damaged when you get to two stories it is quite possible that you could be substantially damaged we'll see that in the older structures that have lower structure values um probably the recommendation there is uh to the property owner to to get an updated appraisal on the structure itself um so that it can be properly evaluated but it is quite likely that the sisd review is going to be required for two stories and then of course single F uh single story that's always going to be required uh we know that this was largely a flooding event so no changes there what if you have a multi-story home so we've got lots of two and three story homes I it's a great question thank you and if you have a living level at at um at the ground floor I think that that's a valid question and it is something that we talked about a little bit internally trying to figure out how to to pull those certainly if an owner can can show us photographs of a three-story structure we would take a look at that and and make possibly make a determination that no sisd review is going to be required so again on the 30% um under 30 there's no review it just passes through they put their permit P they put their SD si uh package in and it they should expect that that goes right through we will be presuming if it's under a 30% calculation then we are it's it's nons substantially damaged and we are presuming then subject to a look back right we still need to look at any open permits we are presuming then that the repairs are going to be less than that 50% um the change here for the multi story what's important to note here is on the four stories and above we don't have to wait for the SD determination or a package review it can go straight to permit following the policy that we prescribed last week so because we can clearly make those assumptions it's going to be certainly less than 20% structurally damaged um except for perhaps a roof or other things that we might need to get a photo of uh so if a roof permit as an example came in with that then we probably at least ask the question and document it but that is a a significant shift here right because that's not waiting on an SD determination to presume that it's 30% or less that's just using some raw math if it's four story structure it's not going to be greater than 30% therefore we don't need to wait on that determination okay un unlike the some of those residential ones that are lower still have to wait on the letter yeah unless you're a four-story structure you're not waiting on the letter correct just making sure okay now have we actually started this so it it is effective what we're doing right now is pulling data from the Property Appraiser's website and unfortunately it's not an easy data pull to identify on a structure by structure basis what the stories are so if you can imagine a very large parcel with many many structures on it you really got to dive into that and look at structure by structure how many you know what how many stories each of those structures were um because uh we cannot look at that from a broad assumption you know multiple buildings Etc it's on a building by- building basis and so it gets a little bit clunky there I would really prefer that we count on our folks out in the community to notify us when they submit throw a note in there hey the structure that I'm in is greater is four stories or greater and then we can move quickly through that process there a spot for them to note that on their application they certainly could they could put that in a note and once they submit an application they can send notes to us so that's perfectly appropriate so the uh the sisd review package as we know this was formerly known as the FEMA packet we will be posting that on 1216 so this this is um a complete redo of what we've had previously and that does not mean that everything that has been submitted before has to be redone it certainly does not if you're already submitted no need to revise this is really just to make things more userfriendly for those that struggle to fill it out this is going to be available as a fillable form with autoc calculations going on this happens to be just a screenshot of a cover sheet and because I believe in in um following best practices and imitating others that have done great great work we're U modeling largely off of the counties but customizing it for our look back with exclusion and other things um we've really beefed up the instructions for the user on there um and we'll be publishing you know some a tip sheet if you will to go along withle document so people can see this and and how it is to be filled out or how best to fill it out so that will that will be live by the 16th um we're we're working on quite frankly we're working on the calculations within the fillable form to make sure it operates correctly as we get into permit status so just an update on where we're at today so as you can see in the green we have received 306 um that are not yet in the review queue 343 are in active review and then we have 192 that have been denied um for uh either deficiencies in the application as it relates to the building code or other things and Corrections are generally needed um we have issued excuse me we have approved 202 pending the SD determination and issued 243 so as you know our goal our our dream state is 75 permits a day we're currently operating at 12 now this is the very first this does not reflect any information from this week this is as of Sunday um end of day on Sunday but as you know we adjusted our permit intake hours to address a lot of what you see there in the the green and orange to expedite those review processes could I ask a question on that on not one there sorry um for the 202 that have been approved and then you said pending as D determination I and and correct me from wrong I thought that if if someone shows in their application that they feel or they had an appraisal and it's less than the 50% they don't have to wait for the stdd you you can start um work or no you have to still wait it it's it's SD determinate um dependent that what we talk if you had a separate appraisal and and you yeah uh that's really it's so that policy we brought forth last week really is dependent upon receipt of that SD determination to give us that calculation of 30% or less now what's going to come to us of course is the SD determination is going to be the the FEMA wind loss mitigation letter on the Property Appraiser's website that's what Title Basin uses when they do their calculation and so you know the the appeal we still have to document the appeal and the appeal is then that appraisal um so that process should be relatively quick but if a determination of substantial damage is made then we do have to go through that process similarly if that um calculation from Title Basin comes in less than at 30.0 or less we won't even bother reviewing the sisd packet that may and likely is already on file we can go straight to permit review on that what is the process for that approved waiting or pending the letter um how does that work I mean once they get it what do they do uh so if we've got a conditional approval and you get the letter is that you're already correct you've already submitted and you're waiting for your letter what do you do so it's a great question and it's um kind of a Sticky Wicket I'll I'll just be very Frank so the way that we're processing the sisd determinations is the creation of a separate permit so if you've gone in and looked at any of those what if you put in a property address you may see an sisd permit and you may see a repair permit as an example those are two separate permit numbers and so how we're tracking that in the system if we do an sisd determination then we leave it in a review status which connects it in theory I would say that we quite honestly need to improve the process to ensure it's working appropriately but it should be left in review status even when we've issued the SD determination so it will trigger the building plans examiner to put those two together that's how it's supposed to be working I cannot promise you in this moment that it's working well or efficiently and it's one of those workflow items that we're trying to figure out how to make that system talk to each other more effectively so that we're not counting on two or three people to have eyeballs on it it needs to be a little bit more workflow Centric rather than people dependent in order to make that get through the system effectively and it's an area of opportunity for us to make significant improv the concern I have and that I see is that people can get online they can see that and they have no number to call that is being necessarily answered or there's too many phone calls going into it uh there's delay in any sort of reply on emails and we've got a bunch of anxious people and I can't blame them certainly um that so there's got to be a better way to address this to go ahead especially when it's there in black and white and they can see it understood so I I think there's two ways that well three really that we're addressing this so one is we reduce those intake hours so those permit texts can get to those emails and again there's thousands of emails they're trying to work through as you know the other Avenue is we've got to figure out how that system can work better so one triggers the other because that's really what needs to occur within the permit portal so that it doesn't rely on somebody notifying Us by email or phone call and then thirdly is the phone system and so I I did hear today that our new phone system is going to be rolled out the first week of January I know that means that we've got another month of struggling with a system that doesn't really automatically roll over to multiple lines um so you know we've got two people generally speaking responsible for those phones all day long and and if if I'm looking at this than that if I'm looking at this and we do 658 permits uh oh sorry SD letters in a period of basically 10 days we're looking at what January TW uh 10th or thereabouts to get through the almost 3,000 to get them all out I I don't know um I the every data push that we get from Title Basin is a little bit cleaner than the one we've seen before so I'm very very hopeful that we're getting to a point where we've got clean data and and I I'm certain that they would agree to this it's been glitchy enough for them they paused those transmittals for nearly a 3- week period because of the issues they were having with getting good data transmitted over to us so I'm I'm hopeful that they you know having two transmissions in in a period of four days I thought was a really wonderful sign and yet we haven't seen any this week so I'm hopeful that we get another chunch of this data and it's cleaner and cleaner every time I will love likely need to reposition some folks in my team to go into that data QC process and and begin to tag those into I into the ior portal pulling people off because we have um fewer intake hours pulling a couple of our Title Basin folks off of that effort and into the data entry effort of getting things um those letters issued and whatnot do we need more help in this department I think we might um I as you know well we'll get to this in just a moment we've onboarded a large number of people this week and so my I'm a little bit hesitant to to um to take on more until I can assure that we've got people on boarded properly with that crew um but you know I I think we'll be able to make that assessment that determination if you will very very soon as to whe as to whether or not we need additional support um we do we are getting some support um do we need additional it support for getting um two systems to talk to each other I'm just trying to figure out what the bottleneck is and how we can solve that so we do have a meeting with ior tomorrow it's on the kickoff of the new enterprise system you all approved a month or so ago the contract for that and those are some of the questions that we're going to be working through is the new enterprise system which has a workflows module going to help us get to where we want to get to with this so the timing is good in that respect but of course that also means a software upgrade that's going to take a little bit to get through I think it's I do believe that it's not an IT issue I think it's a software issue that the vendor needs to help us resolve and that's IQ works I work yep or I work a couple quick questions for you um the first one um to commissioner Robinson's point about about if somebody sees that they have that significant damage determination or or non-determination letter and they also have a permit in review there wouldn't be anything stopping them from printing that letter and uploading it to their permit correct they certainly can do that c you know that would be an unfortunate way to to resolve the issue it's C if some and they're in a hurry yeah they they can do that okay they certainly can yep and then um my second question for you is on the the those those uh uh applications that have been approved but we're waiting for the significant damage determination is there I mean I I realize that that we have to base that off of the information that comes from the county through their contractor but is there not [Music] some percentage of damage you know like we we've already reviewed their sis D packet if it's been approved we've already determined that it is under the 50% B based on based on the the calculations that have been provided for us in that packet M so it seems like there should be some number like it seems like if you if you if we've had plans examiners and the building inspector have signed off on that and said Yep this all looks totally legitimate and you and if you looked at it and said man this is less than 25% of the damage that the risk to the city of going ahead and issuing that permit is very very small potentially and so what are we waiting I mean like we're waiting for and we're waiting for data that is apt to be more flawed than anything that anybody else has provided us to call it highly subjective would be an understatement correct so and that's and that's exactly what I was saying before like what I want to know what we can do what policy can we set if we need to change something that's why I say I don't remember what we talk about last week because we talk about so many things I thought that's what I thought for some reason that's what I thought we were saying okay because that's 202 people waiting to potentially get a letter that might not for six weeks WR well I know some are wrong right some are wrong and people have been telling me that they're wrong okay so then they then they don't know what to do do we appeal it do you know or am I supposed to get a corrective letter and we're in a Lim so what can we do as a commission what can we say you know what yes it's a low risk if it's less than 30% give them sign off and say you guys are taking this risk if it comes back as you know these numbers were not right or whatever I mean I thought we had this Clause right wasn't there a legal Clause that we were talking about that we were putting in these permits um that we do that so people are not waiting I mean this could take months more if you have to try to correct an SD deter termination letter that that we're already sensing this data is flawed my understanding is that there's no correction on that once it's issued correct correct that's correct no there's no correction on it once it's issued you live with that and that's what you live with but you go through the appeals process your only option to do is appeal and you only have 60 days to do it there's no extensions on that 60 days 60 days to file the appeal to file the appeal so the so the the question is is this right part of the appeals process is providing your bids a copy of your county letter or an appraisal MH right correct photos under under what circumstances would an appeal be denied if you for example have county says you've got 100 Grand to play with you've got a contractor that says it's going to cost $75,000 you're not even close to that 50% on actual expenses mhm so if you receive a letter that says you've got $150,000 in Damages your appeal's process would be to say well here's a letter from the tax Appraiser's office here's my certified notorized affidavit that forget if it's a federal crime or whatever you know right so you put yourself at you and your contract are putting yourselves at risk right so the appeals process would be to submit that and say say well no actually the damage is only this much well you've just actually described what the appeals process is exactly that and that's really what the sisd packet is really for so so here's the question then right so that's the appeals process the only thing what I think the Commissioners are getting at is what is preventing us when we have an affidavit we have a contractor bid we have a county letter or an appraisal that clearly show that this is less than 50% so it virtually doesn't matter what the leather says because the appeals process will be provide this exact information so what's the difference between providing information now letting people start now what's prevent because I'm I'm sensing that there's something preventing us from doing that sure I think what we all want to understand is what is it what is the mechanism that's preventing us is it FEMA says you cannot start a permit until you receive the letter is that it or what is it so um and I'm certainly not able or is it is it a city policy because if a city policy you have control over that or is it one single person that's reviewing everything and signing off on it on 3,000 so I'm hearing five different questions let me back up and make sure I get all of them so a few things um so FEMA does require that an sisd determination is made when um a property is non-conforming in the flood plane so we have got to issue that at some point in the process sure so you could from a policy perspective Ive you could say homeowners you can take all the risk and we did do that to some degree with minimal repair permits right you could take all of the risk on but we're putting our flood plane administrator building official at risk there in my opinion I think that that's um you know they are legally obligated to enforce flood plane regulations and then as a building official they're obviously legally enforced to to enforce Florida building code NEC and the like so um we could issue a policy and say hey you know what if you can present information and you think that you've got a solid grasp on all of those repair costs they're fully documented and you feel comfortable in doing so and you've got a letter that tells you what your structural value 50% is and you feel confident and comfortable going forward you could issue that policy you could you all could could make that policy and we could Implement that I certainly don't believe that its best practice I think FEMA would probably have some difficulty with that I think there's an opportunity tomorrow I know we have a FEMA Region 4 representative that I intend to ask that very question um tomorrow I think I just emailed you about it a little while ago because I do think it's a question we we can ask we have certainly asked about that 30% rule if you will and got positive feedback I um received positive feedback about the Bureau of Labor Statistics data that that is though dated March 2023 for the Tampa Bay Region that is suitable data that we can use for labor rates for owner Builder permits so I think we're getting good dialogue and they're willing to tell us what is acceptable from them I would be hesitant to do anything without the guidance of our FEMA region Region 4 representative do we need sorry do we need a second building official to speed this up so we actually do have a second building official Community can only have one official building official one of the employees that has joined us actually two that have joined us one is here only intermittently um both of them carry the building official designation so they have the full ability to review all permits all plans all of those things they cannot stamp so they are not the designated building official right only Luke can stamp correct but they can review and get to the point that can stamp it correct and that's the objective is to get Luke out of as many processes as possible so that all of that is showing up on his desk is the stamp okay y okay so let just take one step back okay so you're ask you're I'm I'm still have I I I hear what you're saying I I can't reconcile it with logic okay uh and that's not that's not your fault I'm just because in my mind is if there is if the appeals process is to present the evidence and we just happen to prevent the evidence before anyone's even gone to court yet right it's a foregone conclusion unless there's unless there's some way that an appeal could fail even though you've provided all the information and I'm trying to understand under what circumstances would an appeal fail if you provide an appraisal an affidavit and a full non-female package it it's not going to fail I mean if the numbers work the numbers work so so then the question is so so so what I'm hearing you say is you do not feel comfortable making that recommendation to the commission unless we got an opinion from FEMA that said and those people will be here tomorrow that's fine is there is there a way for your office city manager um to get that answer I mean I'm I'm happy to schedule an emergency session Before Christmas yes if that means we can start issuing these things without having to wait for the letters because we're at 10% of the letters yeah correct and and I mean that that means 90% of people can't start anything so if is it yeah so just from a procedural standpoint and City attorney can correct me if I'm wrong but we're still under emergency Powers so for some reason I'm hearing you're comfortable with it the community development director comes back and tells me she's comfortable with it with FEMA I could make that decision before we come back to the commission this is not a formal resolution being passed this is Administrative policy but anything we do that puts the city at risk for your inclusion in the the flood insurance policy no I mean I'm we we weigh in with you because we want we want your opinion I think it's good to get that opinion but if if we get that opinion tomorrow if we get that opinion this week things up and if we can then say look starting Monday we can as long as you've got all of everything done and you it doesn't even look like you're coming close to 50% maybe we set a threshold of let's say 40% just like we did 30% for the other one or we could leave it at 30 whatever the number is I think we can come up with something that gives us a a significant of cushion where you know again we don't want people to jeopardize their homes either and start spending you know $50 $775,000 and then right correct I think the kicker is definitely if they submit with the independent appraisal because all I've seen is those boost values but but even if they submited with the I think the the county of appraisers has even more weight cuz that's the one that the letter is going to use anyway if the numbers work if the numbers work with either value the numbers work like exactly if the numbers work with the with the with the value off of the county assessor's website there's no then there's no need for the for the independent appraisal you know if if the if the numbers work the numbers work and if it's the exact same information you would file for an appeal I agree it's it seems ludicrous know the exact same information would be adding in the independent appraisal only if need it no because if you didn't need it you wouldn't be in an appeal process you would still be at your 30% no no they can they can issue you substantial damage because they say that the county assessor's office says you've got 100,000 to play with but they think it's $150,000 worth of damage whereas your contractor says it's $75,000 right and you're over at your your 30% for whatever letter that they're going to give you anyway yeah a very clear example that we're is if you took any water in in your house the calculation is going to presume 100% damage to your flooring well we know that a lot of flooring of course around here is tile and most people were able to save that tile and so some of those things are some of those Basics can easily be addressed but have to be addressed um through the appeal process and I'll just be very Frank we talked um internally um certainly consulted with the city manager with the data that we were seeing come across would we feel comfortable manipulating that data that comes to us because we know that those assumptions might be heavy-handed and we all concluded that that would not this is a State Contractor that is authorized by FM to do this process we felt very uncomfortable with taking their subjective process and layering our own onto that and so what that certainly is going to yield is we are going to have a relatively High number of SD determinations I would not be able to stand here and tell you what my prediction is is where we're going to land but we just by the way of how this subjective process seems to be working is going to yield a number of SD determinations that will be overturned on appeal and again some of that appeals process is information that perhaps is already been submitted to us but we still you still need to file it right so we're thinking you know we've got to be think thinking about the inevitable audit that's going to come at some point we still have to go through that process to document everything and of course that's going to be frustrating as well um how we manage that appeals process with Staffing and and the like is going to be essential no doubt um Denise you also mentioned you said the we didn't want to put the building official at risk because of flood plane regulations that require the s determination right letter before issuing uh a permit well both it happens to be that our building official is also our flood plane manager I don't wish to put the flood plane manager at risk by violating flood plane regulation through the SD process right now does it say though that you need to and I'm sorry because I I mean I read I think I remember the guide book from FEMA I it said sisd packets basically I don't think I remember it said letter like to get your you know permit you need this letter you need to have the the packet I believe filled right now Luke has to sign that letter his name has to go on there so his fear to sign the letter saying that that packet is good versus getting an an a nesty determination letter that we all know can possibly be wrong he has to sign the SD letter he has to Stamp Those permits and he has to review he has to sign off on on the SD review package those are all requirements of both of those roles that he carries so um this is why unfortunately all things seem to be going through Luke right now and again we're trying to amend that process so that all that he gets to him to his desk is a fully vetted by qualified Personnel a fully vetted three streams of data that he can feel comfortable putting his sign drawn and stamping immediately um I think we're on the right track with a large number of staff and highly qualified staff that that came into our our um office this week so um if I move on to that slide we can talk about um what that's looking like now so this just is a reminder about our new hours um so Staffing allocation by job type so because we stopped doing our own SD inspections um again subjective process and we didn't have access to all the public data that the Title Basin inspectors had um and with a large trunch of data that came across last week we released those two SD inspectors from their workload and um returned them back to tital Basin we weren't able to utilize them in other parts of our process so we currently have 34 uh FTE on staff it's actually more bodies than this but it's um equivalent to 34 full-time equivalent employees and this is how they're um um allocated currently so code enforcement um I failed to mention in the previous slide one of our current employees is transferring into our department she's a a a certified code enforcement officer um she is going to be focusing quite heavily on beach um you may know her iako is joining our department officially in Code Enforcement so you see an additional FTE allocated within that and then post permit inspections the SD determinations because we're doing less of those ourselves what you're seeing there in SD determinations is really the data crew that's where I think um we can allocate more resources and I can put in Mission requests for them and I've talked with our FEMA accountant Cheryl and the Delo reps that we're in today that are working with her um and then plans examiners and and packet review as you see there what's showing in green and then permit intake what's showing in green is what we're dedicating to the business and Commercial um activities and you know keeping in mind the structure policy that we just talked about um we'll be able to I think push forth a fair number of commercial related permits rather quickly under that new policy and we're dedicating a team to that effort any questions on this before I move off that so currently we've received minimal repair permits we've received 48 applications and issued 24 of them unfortunately many of them we really are not able to submit over the- counter and typically it's because the product approvals aren't coming in with those so with Roofing as an example you need the Florida um product approval from dbpr some of those Basics and this is um quite honestly uh just um a matter of owner Builder per um permit applicants unfamiliar with what's really necessary and required so a little bit of Education we didn't put on there that they need to do a building permit and under building permit that's where that shows up it a minimal repair permit is still a a building permit but I don't know if we actually put on there that they needed to fill that out because underneath the building permit it does say that you need to put those items just saying I would have to take a look at that so the minimal repair permit document is really a policy document well from from the three pages I've seen it doesn't have a building permit application on there as well because that's a different go in and put in so just saying that that under those um details on that one of them is the uh the uh performance on the uh product performance okay I'll I'll take a look at that and make an amendment and then the other thing I have because I have had numerous people call me on this was that in regards to this and I totally agree with them the number one item is electrical I mean for your safety in your home is going to be electrical other than your structure being bad um and and so with that being said if I'm why why would I if I'm going to be proactive and get my electrical done to get into my house doing a minimal repair versus going ahead knowing or taking the risk taking the risk because there is the document that sign you sign that says you take the risk that if your SD letter comes out and you are Beyond it then that's your risk but to go ahead and do the full electrical on your home if you're willing to do that to get back in your home in Li of spending you know a th000 bucks or 600 bucks or whatever to raise and change out your receptacles it's a waste of money it's not inefficient it's inefficient for permitting as well because you've got to do double duty on that that to me does not make sense with not being able to just let people permit out their electrical and have it inspected and spend the money to do that at their own at their own risk so th this gets to the larger question that we need to ask of FEMA right the region for rep so when with minimal repair permits the guidance suggests safety safety it's for what is minimally required minimally being keyword minimally required to safely occupy the structure that's why roof that's why um ital change out that's why you can do limited electrical limited Plumbing no drywall so tomorrow you have that conversation you'll have the I will have that conversation you put that on there with that because to me that's huge and that would speed up a lot of people and not and not waste a lot of time effort and money um because there's a lot of money being spent and a lot of people are losing their contractors to do the work waiting for permits what we are seeing is quite a bit of your train of thought because you were saying roof you know so you about to say roof what is minimal for roof you can do a full roof repair so why why is not doing minimal I just want to check that I'm not going to get my house on fire on electrical versus what commissioner Robinson's saying is let me just get all my electrical ready so then I can close it off with my drywall and the inspection what's the difference it's a great question it's not one that we've talked about the reason you could do a full roof repair a full roof replacement versus a repair is a replacement is excluded from your sisd calculation oh I forgot about that one and you look back so if we didn't have that exclusion we would limit it just to a repair correct should have done that a while ago put the electrical exclusions there's not much to laugh about all right so moving on to local historic designation we've received 35 applications to date we did have to to move a historic preservation board meeting due to a quorum issu so that meeting is occurring on Thursday evening there will be 11 seeking that designation on that agenda um so today we have about 990 structures that are currently designated and and we're kind of working all of those designated properties have been tagged in our eyework system to alert us some of them are eligible for a variance or rather um an exclusion from the sisd review some of them are not and it depends on when they received that designation and so those alerts have been placed on every property in accordance with um their eligibility there so long-term housing recovery a brief update on this one if people wish to scan this code they can certainly do so they can sign up for communications from Florida Division of Emergency Management they will be applying for federal funds and these federal funds will um be in the hazard mitigation grant program which is open to all applicants and the will be open to all applicants and the flood mitigation assistant Swift Current program the Swift Current program is limited to nfip policy holders important to note that fdm needs to make that application to the federal government once allocated the state will then set up the current plan is that the state will be setting up the application system and and homeowners will be applying directly to the state I would suggest that it's similar to the home hardening program that they manage and the Hometown Heroes program that they initiated and supported so um I would guess that they'd probably use some of that infrastructure that they built for those previous programs but you can um we do we did launch a new housing recovery support page so we'll continue to update that page um with information you'll find the full flyer related to to um the communication that you'll see through um through this scan but um you'll be able to see that information and we'll every bit that we get related to long-term housing recovery we'll be sure to post on that support page then some miscellaneous update so the final pass of residential storm debris pickup started as you know on December 5th the last day for a private residential pickup is December 23rd um if aftermath and I I can amend this um certainly and put it in writing if aftermath has already been down your street for its last pass of pickup they are not coming back so don't put more debris out so if um your the beneficiary of already having seen that last pass that that's your last bite at that apple with aftermath it won't be returning but they will be completing their last pass um I believe that date is still December 18th is the target date but certainly ahead of that 90-day deadline that was established by the governor's executive order and then commercial properties um we have issued notices of violation to 40 again the goal is compliance it is not to issue fines and things like that and we certainly are seeing compliance um so our code enforcement manager our acting assistant city manager and a member of the public works department are going to go out on Thursday with dirt on demand um to to evaluate what's left and and to make sure that um we're on target with all of those commercial clients that still need assistance in getting their debris managed and then finally We are continuing to make updates to um the various web pages but the most important one is really the landing page and that's the hurricane rebuild and repair information so now if you go right now if you go on the city's website that's going to be an automatic popup to take you directly to that page um that's the best source of of launch into all things hurricane repair you'll be able to get to that housing recovery support um web page is an example and another other a number of others that will be listed on the left-and sidebar that will be helpful information and with that I happy to take any questions how are we handling the discrepancies that went out between Title Basin and our City's assessment with the SD page yeah so um we have determined that as a state qualified vendor the Title Basin data supersedes so we have had to reissue some second letters as a result of that so the people that did call me to tell me that their Title Basin was less I can tell them that that's the one they go with that's the one they go and that will get pass through how do they how do they speed up their process since they've already had their info in so if they're conditionally approved it's really just tying those things together and then go they go through permit so if they have not been if it has not been reviewed um and again you know if it's title Bas in number or you know the number comes back at 30.0 or less we won't even be looking at the the sisd packet um and will only be a permit review if it's come in at higher numbers then as you know we'll be looking at the all all streams of data okay and then um electrical can you clarify what the electrical rewiring or submerged wiring um is because I sat through a couple um times at the at the permit desk uh on the resident side listening to what's been said and it is in direct conflict with what I've been told so that's disconcerting I I don't know what you've heard I have blanket statements is that any wire that got submerged needs to be uh removed yes which I understand but it is a bit misleading because I've been told it does not have to be removed all the way back to the sub panel nor does it have nor does it have to go all the way back to uh your um your main that is correct it does not is only and can we put a picture in there that shows the water line and a receptacle and another receptacle above it because there's people up there that cannot explain this concept ccept of how to do that and to put a junction box in Li of and or move your your receptacle up and they're misleading people and that's a huge amount of money electrical is a large portion of this and we're talking you know $600 to $1,000 to change out your Outlets to 8,000 to 10,000 to rewire your house it's a huge difference and it's basic it's a it's a diagram that just needs to be sitting there and they can point to it it's it's so that I understand what you're asking you would like a diagram that communicates to contractor to homeowners what their contractors should be doing I was standing there when a contractor came in and had the question that's disconcerning because contractors are licensed and should be very familiar with the NEC code and that's they said every city is a little different on what they require so that's why they were in there asking well and I have had talked to a couple homeowners who had um probably not as upstanding of electrical contractors who were the where the electrical contractor told them they had to replace all of the wiring in the house versus just cutting the wire up above the waterline and and doing so you know it's that that's a that's a tricky spot right because how much how much education is the city required to do of the public but but there should be some attempt probably of of making it clear right and and to be clear we cannot tell you what you must do in your home we can only refer to the building code or electrical code right and it's the the responsibility is therefore on you to review those code requirs and I know that makes a lot of people uncomfortable but that's the law y so um electrical and not electrician as you know don't carry any of those license es but what I have been told is um by the building official is electrical does need to be replaced if it got wet because there is a paper barrier that is wrapped around those wires that Wicks water and so an electrician should be removing all wiring back to a reasonable place in which they can they can put in a junction box if that's what's going on and hopefully contractors are doing that and trying not trying to take advantage of homeowners by rewiring a an entire house which is not necessary the only time that it is required to rewire an entire house is if you have cloth wiring and we do have many structures I'm learning that still have cloth wiring so if an electrician goes in and finds that wiring no longer needs code they are legally obligated to require that the entire house be rewired thank you for the non-el electrician answer as a don't play one TV got those thank you thank you I think you're up next anyway uh before we come back to you we just have the consent agenda sorry we have audience comments and then consent so I apologize you are back in 30 seconds all right uh are there any general audience comments Jeff bonell okay you pleased state your name and address for the record good evening my name is Jeffrey bonell I live at 440 80th way um to answer your electrical question Luke himself told me you just have to cut the wire up above the waterline that's not why I'm here I've heard a lot of talk about how to expedite the process how we can be more efficient I personally feel that we've done the opposite I wanted to put a human side to this as you go through your decision- making process I'm an honorably discharged retired Marine combat veteran father husband I'm living at my mother-in-laws my son gets dressed from a box every day we're waiting to get back in our home my home is ready to go I've already redone my electrical I've already replaced my air conditioning I've already elevated everything in my home I'm waiting on you guys that's really all I have to say we don't don't need a letter I have a Florida certified appraisal I have a contractor's estimate that's based right off of my insurance payment I use the same numbers and wording all you have to do is just say Jeff go forth and prosper thank you thank you sir Deborah shner if you'll please state your name and address for the record good evening de shner bua ale Drive in St P I do appreciate that transparency is important and a lot of politicians say they they'll be transparent but they aren't I saw it today and Glory Allelujah I feel about that so we had some elderly neighbors and when I say elderly they're high 80s low 90s who receiv received the substantial designation letter the house looked good when we looked at at it I've also known some FEMA inspectors have looked in people's windows and not even been in their houses and still determin that they've had substantial danger damag me now they're going to have to appeal this is their life so you have to build up tear down or abandon your house that's what they've been told and I do believe that's on that letter yes and there might even be another designation how scary is it that your lifetime where have you've lived for 30 years now they're telling you build up tear down or abandon and giving you no money to do so I think it's very also very important to note that if you are waiting for a FEMA trailer or you have signed up for a FEMA trailer you can get a hotel voucher well you don't have to pay for that I already have a friend in Readington Beach who has been doing that because I don't know why the femat tralers aren't coming but it's been a while so get on that list if you're spending a lot of money each week or each month in housing and in fact she even receives a couple of meals a day from some group so there's help out there for that and I think it's important that people live in a safe place with they not spending all of their money and you may want to call your mortgage company and see if they can help you with that because you're spending money at a hotel or Airbnb and then you're spending money on your mortgage it's almost impossible never would we realize how bad this situation would be with two massive bigger than Katrina storms hitting St P Beach days after after another it's unprecedented even one of those storms would be unprecedented in our community so there's a lot of catchup going on but we also you got to take K not you State FEMA has to take care of the residents we have to figure out a way to get them to do that they would not want to live like some people are living right now I have another family they're in a tiny 500 400 squ foot room with matches on the floor for their kids and then they have a big dog and the most minor of kitchens and they're pain for that cuz they have nowhere else to go thousands and thousands of people are homeless thank you thank you John kersman F please state your name and address for the record Podium cisman uh my address is in beond way I'll just start with I uh you know it goes back to the discussion about food trailers versus food trucks I did hear in this is hearsay though that someone said that they uh they were told by FEMA because this is a Barrier Island FEMA is not going to bring any TR trailers here that they believe that because it's an island that they're not going to do any trailers uh if that's incorrect maybe we can do something about that um can you switch to the display here um just on one topic electrical and then I'll get to the main topic that we've been all discussing you know one of the things you know FEMA stands on ceremony about is they want everything raised up because that's safer they want electrical raised up the these are both you know FEMA documents they want everything raised up for electrical um but then they put the other end of the wire on the ground six feet below Bas flat elevation so that's their Transformer I took that picture in 2018 when they were fix fixing corrosion and that's a closeup and Mr Clark said don't worry about it it's all waterproof when I was here talking about why we shouldn't underground if we don't put the connections up high well those are the non-waterproof connections he said don't worry because they turn off the electricity during uh a surge well and then here's a picture taken during right after Helen well I happen to see the guys from duke who were assessing the damage um and this is what they pulled out of that Transformer this week and they explained that the reason these are so damaged is because the power was on and not only did it cause a fire in my home but they said that the reason there's so much corrosion is because there electrolysis when the power is on um the power being on significantly accelerates it and makes makes the damage much more severe I also sent a letter because there's been fires uh and explosions actually in in in in other cities when the gas is uh funnel in even a year later so that's why these guys are running around trying to fix that uh next you know I spent time reading the the uh CRS Co coordinators manual and the addendum from 2021 um and I just want to make sure that everybody realizes the problems that you guys are dealing with the with these significant damage letters predate you because one of the first things that it says and this is a very it's not even in the coordinator manual it's in the addendum that they get into when you have to do these significant damage letters and the significant damage letters in one small section and it starts with step one being an estimator database it was supposed to be created years before where you identify the homes that are at risk and after you have that database of usually post firm homes that are at risk you figure out what homes have the risk of flooding and how bad it is and then that you go through a summary and you and then you know what to do later so it all should be set up long before and then you could focus on just the homes that have these problems not what you're having to do now it's a much bigger problem that thank you sir Linda Len if you please state your name and address for the recordan 2802 pass the grill way every time I come up here same same thing Furious Furious Furious you think you're Furious you should see an old lady like me Furious it's not a pretty sight there's a lot of smoke blowing around here tonight boy still clearing it out aren't we you have been in that seat for 19 months and it's tonight that you're talking about the storm drains and clearing them out they're down my street now on 28th Avenue these past two days clearing them out where have you been for 19 months why wasn't that done it took Des santis to make it a law in J June of this year before anything happened this city has been poorly run for at least 19 months so quit telling us it's the Mr mills's problem it's not you have not asked the questions you needed to be asking you have allowed this city to become this horrendous horrible mess FEMA is we don't FEMA's not helping us you know that already FEMA is absolutely not helping us this is a total detriment to this entire community that's my first point my second point is why are we allowing these monstrosity houses to be built 6 7,000 square ft on a 6,000 ft lot the guy's got one foot of setb on Sunset way one foot on a three-story building that's going up right now 2905 or seven on the Gulf side how did that happen how did that happen because these are the causes the city not asking questions Mr Mayor 19 months in that chair and you folks allowing FEMA to control this situation this is not FEMA things these are coming from the city and that's where the problem is get on the job you're being paid get on the job and start asking questions because you did not obviously did not ask questions and I still don't know what happened to that $6 million I'd like some transparency on that one too you're more than welcome to go back and watch all those meetings where I asked all those questions in fact you heard me if ma'am your time is up ma'am what happened your time is up and we're not talking about the six time not up okay I asked those questions and in fact I specifically told Camden I am now blaming him so please do not put words in my mouth and I specifically said multiple times tonight no you're transferring my you're you're you're twisting my words I'm telling you you've been in that chair for 19 months and you're asking the questions that you were asking tonight tonight no ma'am I've been asking them for 19 months because you would have had those answers a long time ago and this city would have been prepared you heard Andrew heard theia you know what that means we were not prepared at all for this stor and we should have been much better we live on a Barrier Island this is not a joke this is Paradise and you're letting it get degraded you alone 19 months that's it for 19 months and for two years before that I was he gets to answer but I go ahead let's hear what well we listen to you for three minutes and generally we do not allow for an individual to just make plant accusations that directly the one accusations this is reality ma'am would you like like me to answer or not it's up to you go ahead try it a yes or no yes okay thank you so you will allow me to speak uninterrupted is that fair I've said yes okay for 19 months and for years before that I asked these questions last December almost exactly a year ago I have asked about palum station one and the pipeline to to Treasure Island I did it again in January I did it again in April I did it multiple times and the reason I was mad today is because the answers I was getting from our city staff the people that we rely on to be experts because they're Engineers the licens in these fields the answers I was getting then that we all relied on are not the answers that we got tonight and you know the only reason we have these answers tonight is because the individuals who gave us those answers are no longer here and you know why they're no longer here because I took steps because I took responsibility and because I did the actual things that I ran on yes so thank you if that was true it is true be looking at these huge monstrosities 22nd Avenue what's the monstrosity got to do with the pipe the these those are the questions that we dealt with tonight those are the questions I've been asking for three years those are the answers that we getting different answers for the last three years so thank you power that's it you got the power and you just proved it congratulations I have been taking steps we've been making changes we've actually been improving the process throughout this that's the reason I was put in office and everybody else was put in office and this is to the credit of this commission they're actually rolling up their sweeps and doing the hard work that has been neglected for years in our city why was Jennifer we do not discuss individual Personnel well I would like to see her back in the city she's the one who should be sitting in your place okay thank you you're welcome do we have any further audience comments yes Kevin Hanigan thank you Kevin if you'll please state your name and address for the record Kevin Hanan 65164 I apologize for my U how I look but I was I was I'm one of the few that got a a permit I'm open and I was putting samples paint samples up and honey the one on the left I think is the one we're going to go with um but I was watching it on YouTube and I was compelled to come and what I want to talk about is public perception the perception has been in US vers them and US verse you and I don't really I don't believe that's the reality but it's it's us not not asking for can we do it not not asking for help like help us do it no we're asking for permission to get on this island you're everyone's accomplished this is not Center City nowhere where we we can't do things your meeting your first meeting about FEMA we were my wife and I were ready to go I was very vocal out here and you scared the Dickens out of us just wait just wait we're one of the first to get our our our U our permit and because we're one of the first permanent people are ask they're coming to us for for answers for questions right like hey how'd you guys do it I don't know how we did it but the perception is you have no teeth you have no teeth evidence of that house right around the corner like what are you going to do so people are building their homes we're done we can do it we're in our homes and we've built what are you going to do about it clearly nothing right and and but that's that's the perception the perception is you don't care and it's not true I I understand that i' I've missed one meeting since this whole thing has started what's going to happen is people are done they're moving in their house they're going to build Jeff I know Jeff Jeff can build it's gonna be perfect and you're going to have to get inspected two years from now and then now you're going to have to deal with lawsuits because now you're going to they're going to say well you have to tear your your drywall out and people are going to tell you to go kiss off and then you're going to do nothing because you can't your hands are tied we see that it's clear and then there's lawsuits what's that going to cost this city and I'm not blaming anybody here I've seen Treasure Island I've seen Med I've seen Readington all the FEA packets are different the FEMA is the issue so either you're you're you're with us or or or let us know that you're with us or you're not but coming your way coming your way are lawsuits and it's going to cost the city it's going to cost the city dearly I don't have an answer that's not that's that's y all's job but that's what's coming and I love this city it took me decades to get back here I love it so that's all I got I don't have answers I just wanted to give you a uh the perception thank you thank you sir Kim gust gustaffson sorry please state your name and address for the record hi I'm kimly Gerson 441 88th Avenue St Pete Beach Florida I just want to thank thank you all for your time here today and asking um the questions that you have it does seem to me that you have everyone's um desire to get back in their homes and do it as efficiently as possible um I'm one of the people that received a substantial damage letter just last week I haven't put in for a permit yet I appreciate this is a new situation for all of us here I've lived on the Barry Island for 21 years I've seen this FEMA packet change five or six different times I'm now here there's an aale packet that's going to come out but not until the 16th I've got a 60-day window m during the holidays to put together an app appeal find a contractor I hear they're not all great around um and and get that packet together so on behalf of myself and my neighbors um many of whom are much older than me and have lived in their home a lot longer than I have and I see that they're all getting substantial damage letters and I've heard that this data is flawed please do something to give us more time to get these appeals in thank you thank you no further okay is there a motion to approve the consent agenda as I make a motion to approve the consent agenda I second city clerk if you'll please do a roll call commissioner Robinson yes commissioner Riki yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes mayor Petrella yes motion carries I propose that we take a 9 minute recess to 905 all those in favor I sure yep cuz I think it's we're going to be here past our 10:00 mhm yes yep and so I mean that's assuming we all want to get through everything tonight yep okay we will be back at 9:05 Sharp e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right next we have action items 68 adopt resolution 2024 D30 City Clerk thank you resolution 2024-25 Ami missing middle property tax exemption to developments that would otherwise qualify pursuant to House Bill 7073 and providing for an effective date Denise Anderson Community Development director so the the live local Act was passed in 2023 three and basically it provided tax exemptions for those properties that were providing uh income restricted housing to low to moderate income persons and households so in uh there was a change in recent years excuse me that the original act I believe was passed in 2021 the change was enacted in 2023 giving local governments an opportunity to opt out of the 80 to 120% threshold so what that means is if you got an affordable housing project that is for income qualifying households 30 to uh 60% those are that's pretty much how the affordable housing Universe goes you have no option there it is going to be 100% tax exempt um per the house bill so the uh opt out provision allows you to take a tax exemption for those 80 to 120% from a market perspective Mainland pelis county is generally running Market rates at are about 120% area median income so this affects can affect a wide number of housing structures throughout pelis County it could impact housing structures within St Pete Beach as well what that opt out allows you to do is opt out from providing that exemption the the process requires that we review the shimberg report which is a tach year agenda item is really the last page I would draw your attention to that shows that we have a surplus of property available in penel county in the Tampa Bay Market um to the tune of nearly 4,000 units which gives us the ability to opt out and so most local governments are doing so when they become aware of it they are doing so it is something that requires annual renewal we have to look at that report every year to ensure that there's still a surplus but that's really what it is and it it is also opting out of a fiveyear look back if you will so the language is newly constructed so if you have a newly constructed multif family residential rental property a property owner could go back for five years and claim the tax exemption and so getting this on the books make sure that you're projecting your adorm taxes from unintended or um surprise exemptions that may come your way have to take any questions I just had one question um and and I don't know if you maybe clarified it for me when I asked you earlier about the January 1st date um whether we had done it January 1st of 20124 and I was advised by staff that this does require an annual election of opt out so annual and yourown yeah annual um one of the challenges quite honestly you may have knows this is the shimberg 2023 report they usually publish a report in 2024 you know they haven't come out with the 2024 report and unfortunately they usually publish it in the month of December so you now have the ability use a 2023 report when opting out um they haven't published the new report some jurisdictions I don't think it's necessary some jurisdictions are passing a couple of resolutions following you know they would do it at this time and then when the shinberg report comes out the 2024 version and they would pass resolution I'll probably talk to a couple of counties or municipalities to see what best practice is on that so you may actually see it again um but that's really just to protect the organization in case there's any weird glitchiness there um I don't think I was not able to find record that we've done this previously so for those of you that are new on commission if you don't remember it that's because I don't believe it's come forward but um most organizations are are certainly taking it forward in order to protect the potential hit because certainly property developers are aware of it yeah and and that's CU we didn't we didn't need one for 20 we didn't need one adopted by January 1st of 2024 then this is for 2025 you did this is the second year in which you had the opportunity we don't know if we have done it yeah we we didn't do it previously and so you know thankfully we had nobody apply for it but it could have been a significant hit correct I believe this is what we got or the commission got threatened with back with Columbia Sussex for if we don't allow this then you know we'll do whatever we want with uh with housing and and and setbacks or and height and disregard our all your zoning I don't think it precludes that though right you could still build using the live local you just couldn't have an exemption is that correct you just couldn't have an exemption for the 80 to 120% correct which is stop them from which is a 75% exemption right yeah right right I'm for it so okay good you like to make a motion I I make a motion to adopt resolution 2024-the for 80 to 120% Ami missing middle residential developments I I second do we have any audience comments city clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner is Nikki yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes mayor Petrella yes motion carries thank you next we have item 6B a discussion on possible action evaluation process for Charter officials before we get started um I would recommend that we table this for further continue it to maybe a January meeting since we don't have any charer officers who are an immediate in their annual spot for a and it's we're already going to have a unless there's a really compelling reason why we should do it today mayor the only reason I chose this timing was upon my appointment the commission asked for a six-month review so I was seeking some feedback and consensus on a process okay if you would like to delay the review that's fine I just want to make sure there's a process in place before we month review would be October sorry January 88th yes which is before the next commission meeting okay that is a compelling reason thank you let's do it oh may I proceed please okay thank you so uh upon appointment as I mentioned I was asked to uh if if it was possible to do a six-month review I agreed to that and when I arrived I uh immediately met with the charter officers um to discuss what the process was um at the time and uh we discussed mapping out uh what I am proposing tonight to believe a more a better process more comprehensive uh the City Attorney at the time is no longer here um but I did meet with the city clerk and um the three of us had a agreed at the time that it was it was an appropriate process for all of us to be part of during our normal evaluation so essentially what I'm recommending is that we we kick it off with a 360 evaluation I was originally proposing to include the uh mayor and commission but I had been advised by our City attorney that Florida law does not allow Anonymous um participation and evaluations by elected officials that was different from where I came from so um I'm proposing just a small amendment to this process that the 360 evaluation only include um internal staff so that would be uh fellow Charter officers uh a portion of the team I I lead and or that we lead and then a portion of other people throughout the agent organization that that work with us in our roles then that information would uh be facilitated by human resources so there's a unbiased uh space where that can confidentially be deployed to those employees the employees that participate will be able to participate confident confidentially which is important if you want honest feedback feedback they need to feel safe and then that subset of information would be provided to each of you so you would have that information um as a report on each Charter officer and then you also would be able to provide your your own uh individual feedback to the Charter officer during a individual meeting prior to the public meeting so as you're in addition to that the charter officer would be asked to submit their own self- evaluation in that packet as well as goals and objectives that they have uh feel they've LED achieved as as well as projections of future goals um that ideally as we progress through our priority work session would start to link to the priorities that the commission is setting after all of th those individual meetings happen those documents would then become public and there would be a public U meeting to do the public evaluation with the charter officer and if compensation was being considered I'm also asking to put a process in place where Human Resources would actually conduct a market survey of your Charter officers um that that are being reviewed you have that compensation to review um the charter officer is able to review it and submit a memo and writing ahead of the public meeting so you're not surprised what we may or may ask for if we're asking for increased compensation or benefit packages so everything would be in that packet as you approach the public meeting and then you would complete the evaluation that's the end of my report I think that sounds great sounds great any the audience comments okay and and it's all good um like Manning this and Staffing it kind of been vetted well the work is going to fall on a charter officer and then Human Resources just to administer and set up a 360 survey with Survey Monkey which is a pretty simple survey tool there is a there is the U ability to even keep the responses confidential to the administrator of that so I will make sure that's set up and and put in place and just print out the raw data so we'll have a first dve run of this in January yes so I'll be your gany pig thank you and um we'll see how it goes okay all right thank you is there a motion do we need one I just need a general consensus that there's no resolution unless you City attorney we need a formal vote if you have any changes you know let let them be heard now I guess otherwise we can proceed this way okay perfect to see sounds good good to proceed thank you uh the City attorney you are next item 6C request for an executive session okay hold on the City attorney hereby announces a request for an executive session that will be closed to the public for the purpose of seeking advice concerning settlement negotiations or strategy sessions related to litigation expenditures associated with litigation in the lawsuit red white and booze LLC a Florida limited liability company Charles L column and Helen column versus the city of St Pete Beach Florida Middle District of Florida Tampa division federal case number 823 CV2 2704 kkm AAS to be held on January 14th at 4:30 in City commission Chambers at City Hall 155 Cory Avenue St Pete Beach 33706 the executive session is expected to last approximately one hour the entire session will be recorded by a certified court reporter the court reporter shall record the times of commencement and termination of the session all discussion and proceeding the names of all persons present at any time and the names of all persons speaking no portion of the session will be off the Record the court reporter's notes shall be fully transcribed and filed with the city clerk within a reasonable time after the meeting at the conclusion of litigation these transcripts will be released to the public so please keep that in mind the city commission will not take action during the executive session but may take action concerning in settlement negotiations at a future public meeting the following individuals will be present during the executive session one or more who may participate electronically so the meeting is limited to these people one or more of these people may attend electronically depending on schedules Adrien Patilla mayor Joe mhal and vice mayor Karen Marriott commissioner Lisa Robinson commissioner Betty resen RI commissioner Fran robelli city manager Becky Bose Esquire Ralph bro Brooks Esquire Nancy steric Esquire and Stephanie v Esquire of the Vose law firm as City attorney and attorneys William boltri III Esquire and Brandon J sheerman Esquire with the law firm of Henderson Franklin stn and Holt PA who are serving as co-counsel for the city in this case and an official court repor as provided by law so with your consensus we'll hold this meeting at 4:30 on January 14th it will commence in the public and then go into this executive session and then come back to the public meeting and this will happen before our regular meeting that's scheduled for 6 PM that day yep okay thank you sounds good any objections to that date none here okay thank you next we have item 6D approval of the Corey Avenue Market from January 1st 2025 to February 1st 2025 good evening Mandy Edmonds acting Parks and Recreation director so this um agenda item is bringing to your attention that we are requesting an extension of the temporary license agreement with cabba for the Corey Avenue Sunday market until February 1st 2025 and the reason we are requesting this is to um we want to honor this current agreement until we can review our special event permitting process and packet and then go forward with the full agenda pack with the full packet of events when we meet with you um January 28th so we are ex we're requesting the extension thank you questions comments Miss Miss Edmonds uh is anyone from cabba here tonight they are not here tonight we did request that they do um show up here for the 28th meeting of the meeting on January 28th okay so let me just throw this out to the commission just um so when they reappear or whatever and Mr Mayor I think you were the only one that was here um there was hours and upon hours of cabba conversations in 2023 I believe a lot of it had to do with their relationship with their hired vendor or not vendor but their hired promoter um I seem to recall that the commission was supposed to get an understanding of what Revenue that Caba received from selling their vendor spots um and then what the disposition of that Revenue was is my record do you recall is because I think they right now they pay $200 for a permit and by the way uh I I'm not anti uh the Sunday market um but there's certainly expenses and and risk associated to the city and $200 maybe that's okay but if you know cob is making $5,000 off this and uh it's just you know going to the promoter whoever I just think the city should uh we should know that so I I don't know if if Mr Mayor you or anybody else can that's here tonight can light me on that but uh that's a question I have I mean there was a former commissioner who was very intent on knowing their financial details um think he was about the only one um I mean if that's something the commission wants to pursue I don't know if that's in the agreement or not I don't I generally don't genuinely do not remember so if there if they have to do that then we should request that um but to me it's like any other permit right if if we issue a permit for some other event and they use that event to sell tickets and do whatever else we don't really ask them what their revenue and expenses are and so on right um to me it was a question of you know really the the issue at the time was like why are we even why is the city even getting involved in this dispute that the association had with their vendor and so on and and my position at the time was that we really the commission should stay out of it that's not you know for me to tell the business what vendor they should use right our responsibility is to apply for for permit you know we issue the permit or we don't issue the permit so they're either you know in good you know they operate in good faith and they're they're good Steward of the permit they've been issued um maybe the question is in the in the last year have we had any negative responses or any negative you know feedback or any issues with their permit have uh no to my knowledge we have not um and I will let you know too that we are up to date with the $200 monthly payment so I mean everything that's in this license agreement has been fulfilled up to date yeah so I mean maybe that goes back to our fee studies right maybe we should look at and and say look are we charging enough for these street closure fees and so on that you know if you know at the very least one of the issues that we've s we've seen with a lot of our fees that they don't even cover the cost of you know of us having to either have I don't know how many firefighters we have to have out there we have to have additional staff we have to do additional you know so maybe again this is probably part of the fee study where we come back and say look for us to close Corey Avenue you can apply for the permit but it's not going to be $200 anymore because it's actually costing the city $1,500 or $2,000 for the day and then maybe we adjust those fees based on based on that fee study um which is what we are looking at when we are reviewing this entire special event packet so right um you know it's the fees that are associated with each event um what is required for each event what's required for a co-sponsorship ship with the city so we're looking at the packet as a whole and then we can make changes that's why we're we are requesting just that we extend this for a month so that we have time to review that but $200 does seem very low well and I I mean obviously there's a lot of events that go on in the city and like I say I'm not anti- the Sunday market um but it seems like it's probably a money-making event and we shouldn't be losing money on it right uh it's not like you know somebody renting uh you know some few hundred square feet on the beach or something like that we're closing a city street we've got to put resources to it and we're charging 200 bucks when um we're how many millions of dollars in the hole right now uh so I I just wanted to raise it uh I hope it doesn't die here um but from my perspective I think it's a question worth worth worth asking really for any what's truly a money-making event I don't know you know if they're making a thousand bucks off it that's one thing but if they're making five or 10 grand off of it that's a whole other thing uh that we're absorbing losses to support it so right yeah I I believe some of their income that they got from it was to also promote it and also to promote Corey Avenue in general and I would just want to really focus on what it's costing the city I I'm really not concerned about what they're making I think I I agree with the mayor there's a lot of we're we're not asking for people to tell us what their expenses and revenues were at an event but it's really what's costing the city and I think that was brought up before and the issue was all about something else and I remember hearing all those meetings but um my only thing is not to forget um I know we got it's on our up here and everyone didn't see the the change of the dates and the on the the packet that's online so I know we have that here the only one that I didn't see that's sitting in front of us is uh updated parking and um you know contact information I know this is just for a month I think there was a safety plan that was in there it's outdated um I know the parking is different right now we've added parking on 75th that's not indicative on on this map you know that that we man right we're we're enforcing that and and making money as a city too if you all remember why we did that and it mentions in references well as Fargo using it as a parking lot I just want to make sure that that is that something that we are allowed to do is that's something that we're going to have to look backer but I know it's written on this parking plan and it that seemed very strange to me that they're allowing us to just let when we review this entire permit then we will go through all of that we will request all of that information and have that to you for the January 28th meeting thank you thank you is there a motion I move to extend the current temporary license agreement with cabba for the Corey Avenue Sunday market until February 1st 2025 I second is there any audience comments no sir thank you C the clerk if you please do a roll call vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner res Niki yes mayor patrilla yes motion carries thank you next we have 6C approval the street closure for January 4th through 5th on Cory Avenue yes um same type of request um this is another event on Corey Avenue uh we're looking to have a motion to approve the street closure for the cabba art and craft festival January 4th and January 5th 2025 um again we will be reviewing the entire special event packet they do have three other dates throughout the year that they will do the same craft festival and they just did this this past weekend so this is another extension while we review the permitting process to move forward with this event um I will note too that the applicant was told originally that these permits would be approved um administratively so that's why they did not submit the permits prior to they just assumed that this would be a carryover from the approval of last year so thank you questions comments audience comments no sir is there a motion I'll make a motion to approve the street closure for the cabba art and craft festival for January 4th and January 5th 2025 I'll second C the clerk if you'll please do a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner Riki yes vice mayor mahand yes mayor Pella yes motion carries thank you next we have item seven sorry 6f formerly 5A December 2000 December 3rd 2024 City commission meeting minutes commissioner malland uh yes Mr Mayor just a a minor um clarification uh I had mentioned about Duke Energy uh in my D4 um comments uh that they had received and acknowledged uh that the need for repair and installation of street lights in passag gril uh and I also uh commented that there was no time they had not established a timeline for that uh that did not into the meeting minutes so I just wanted to clarify they have acknowledged it uh but they have not given the city unless it's just happened very recently uh a a timeline for doing that so hopefully that's soon so that was the clarification and I'm prepared to make a motion to approve the minutes uh unless somebody else has something else on that go ahead I make a motion to approve the December 3rd 2024 City commission meeting minutes Second City Clerk if you please through a roll call commissioner Robinson yes commissioner res Niki yes vice mayor Holland yes commissioner marott yes mayor petrilla yes motion carries thank you next we have ordinances 7A first reading of ordinance 2024 d07 city clerk thank you an ordinance of the city of St Pete Beach Florida providing for the allocation of 12 units of temporary lodging density under the provisions of the boutique hotel/ condo District temporary lodging unit density pool as established in the city of St Pete Beach Comprehensive plan to prop to the property located at 4200 Gulf Boulevard Miramar Beach Resort and reverting the 15 temporary lodging units allocated under ordinance 2021-topcon what's uh can be on screen is just sort of a timeline of where we're at what's leading us up to today's action item and so um but I think I'll walk through a a at a deeper level sort of all the steps that are leading us to today so um ordinance 2120 excuse me 20214 was approved in April of 2021 with an initial expiration date of April of 22 allocating 15 lodging units to the property under a prior accompanying cup the project approval was appealed within the subsequent 30 days and the appeal was settled in October of 2021 changing the expiration date of that ordinance to October 2022 hurricane Ian then made landfall between SE and September of 22 and executive order 22-28 declaring a state of emergency was reaffirmed every 60 days there since and we are still under that so um it's still active today and so it's told we cannot expire it as you know um plus 24 months once that emergency period ends so um ordinance 20247 if approved would return the 15 units allocated in in 2021 to the density pool and um it would be under a non-appealable or excuse me following non-appealable passage of that ordinance and would allocate 12 units to the site under the forthcoming cup 24038 uh that project is likely to come to you in January so the action that's today is not the project itself this is simply about allocation of units and returning three units to the density pool for boutique hotel condo um and I'll change the screen there forgive me as you can see there um it is the only active Cup on the record for that um allocation and it would return three units to that pool so what occurs at the next meeting when you consider the cup the cup cannot be approved without an allocation of units and because this process required to requires two reads we bring them to the Finish Line at the same time they are tied together if you um vote no on the cup these units do not get allocated okay but the 15 that are approved are allocated that is still an active cup okay happy to take any questions got technical staff here the attorney representing the client is also here but again I would encourage you not to engage in a discussion on the cup because that's not been publicly noticed okay thank you you're very welcome so go ahead so we've referenced the cup um so it would not be out of line to uh make comments on concerns or questions that maybe we would be looking to have answered uh at the cup hearing I think that would probably be a courtesy I would think people would see it that way uh so are are you uh comfortable with uh me putting a few questions out there or a few comments as it relates to to uh the cup so there's some Advanced heads up that either staff or the applicant can be prepared for it yeah you know I certainly would defer to the attorney on anything just I the caution that I wish to express is because this has not been publicly noticed as a cup public hearing I don't wish us to get too far down the road where we're making decisions or indicating decisions are being made um in tonight's discussion related to an item that is not being brought forward okay well and if anybody wants to answer my questions that's fine if not um I'm sure there'll be prepared to answer them uh next month should we City attorney do you want to weigh in on that let's hear from the applicant first their representativ is here they're present so they may have something to add to staff presentation okay good evening Katie cold law firm of Hill Ward Henderson representing the applicant as Miss Anderson went through we know tonight is the allocation I think just big picture it's important to note as you can see on the chart um the project as a whole results in a reduction of density on this site including the reduction in density for the pool we look forward to having a full hearing on the cup walking through the changes um it is a smaller building it is a less smaller footprint and it is fewer units and uh we would look forward to having that discussion in the future so happy to answer any questions um that you may have with respect to this um piece of a larger puzzle I have a question Kate um and this is not about the CP this is just about the density pools what I want to just focus on here if the request was for 15 prior and now you're reducing to 12 why is it important to change it why why can't we just you just not use those three like why does it have to show 12 exactly the same question that I asked previously when we made this application it's the in in my opinion um the units are already on the site we probably could have developed the property and returns of three unused units the city preferred to have the commission reallocate as a companion to a new cup um based on its process so um the prior Administration prior attorneys we had that conversation this spring and this is where we are but to to your point commissioner I I would tend to agree we're going to return those three units if the new project is approved and constructed okay thank you and and this might just be a City question then I'm not sure why you know and I kind of spoke with the city attorney about this but um is it because we want to put the units back back in our pool versus just losing them not having them available for the city is that is that the reasoning well I think you have a number of units that are allocated as you see in the table um units allocated between Boutique Hotel Town Center Corp up on beach Village you have a limited number of units and so if you're not going to use them in one area they would be made available for use by another area or maybe we even with within the boutique hotel you could reallocate these units um I think it's a use it or lose it so if you're going to allocate them and they don't use them then they're going to waste in a certain way um here it may be appropriate to wait till the cup revision comes forward to see if that's something that you like and want to do and if you do then these units would go back into the pool but today because there this is done by ordinance there's a first reading and a second reading so it's um almost admin aial type first review first reading of the ordinance they can all be considered together and January 14th with the cup and this allocation that would be probably most appropriate okay thank you I mean I had the same question that you had why not just lose them just put them back in the pool but also the other question I have is uh in every other cup that we've had that has had multiple components to it those were all brought together at the time of the cup this is almost you know putting the cart before the horse and rather presumptive right why not I understand but the next meeting is literally 14 days later so it's really not going to impact anything if we have to do a second reading should the cup pass um you know I to me saying yes to this just seems presumptive that somehow we will be and even if you look at the timeline of the planning board the planning board first heard the cup in September and then they didn't get this until last week right uh no mayor that's incorrect they heard both actually and there was um a mistake in the noticing they heard both and there was I'm I'm think I'm thank you Miss Coman yeah there was a mistake in the noticing and so um both went back together again so it was so they didn't receive one first and then the other which is what we're asking here they they were together okay y I mean I I would you could do like a continuance of this first reading until January 4 14 and then you can ask your questions and talk about the cup and the allocation at the same time y i I appreciate that the Crux of the issue here I think um your code requires the density to be allocated prior to the approval of the cup so from a procedural standpoint as Miss Sanderson said you could not conditionally approve a cup without without the without having your second reading you already have the 15 allocation well we have 15 we all and they're giving back three so I think you could then if that if that's the interpretation that's fine then I don't even know why we have a new ordinance but I don't know why we have any ordinance either um but that I I think the applicant's concern is we we were um because of the mistake and noticing we had our Hearing in September we thought we were coming to in October obviously the storms rearranged all but we had the additional impact of the noticing and so we're now three months behind um my client already has his financing ready to go we're we're hoping to move this along either the existing approved project or the new approved project as quickly as possible so so I'd hate to see an additional U month delay um this is the process that the city has used used apparently always and so uh it's kind of what we've been relying upon to the state so so does this delay a process then for the city if we don't if we don't change to this ordinance is that what the issue was I think what you're saying is they want to get the project moving and if they do the first reading today they can do the second reading and if you approve the cup then they're good to go otherwise they would have to do another second reading yeah but if we just don't anything with this they already have the 15 allocation yeah that's what we're just saying why do have why do they have to change it they're just not using they don't have to right they could give back later yep correct yeah oh wait um I apologize I'm looking for the 2021 ordinance because in the proposed ordinance before you tonight it specifically references the cup and so if the 2021 ordinance does as well um my my concern would be were those units tied specifically that might would eventually I would want there to be a you would eventually change them both but it would just be a timing thing the C is resolution 20214 the ordinance for oh you you explain it the prior the prior allocation was 20214 and the prior CPU was 20248 right so you don't have the benefit of seeing the screen that we just did but there is one of the sections of the ordinance that was passed in 2021 does state that if that cup does not go forward then those units go back in so again that kind of speaks to what we're talking about for January where we're tying these units to the cup which is why they need to get to the Finish Line at the same time time because you can't approve the cup without those units being allocated similarly we did that in 2021 which is why if we're abandoning or choose not to go forward with that cup issued then those units are put back into that pool and so this allocation is very specifically tied to it but the net difference is the same returning three units making sense no let me let me see let me let me see if I understand this correctly so um so the reason that this is coming to us tonight is because the the previous allocation of 15 units was specific to the previous cup and so those 15 units that have been allocated can't be used for this new cup because they're tied to the previous one so we can't approve the the cup based on an allocation of units to a different cup and if we don't do a first reading of this tonight and then a second reading at the night of the cup hearing because that would have to happen before we approve the cup because if the if the if the units aren't allocated then you cannot you can't even hear the cup because there are no units allocated so if we don't hear this tonight we cannot hear the cup at any further meeting until we have the first reading and then the second reading of this ordinance so I think the the the city process and the way that the the the the unit allocation is tied directly to the conditional use and the conditional use is dependent on the unit allocation requires that it be done in this order in this fashion I believe you have that exactly right but this summary does not say that this summary says something else this summary says we already have 15 units and we're giving back and we W 12 it it says right here right so the cleanest thing I guess would be if we meet on January 14th and you say you were to approve the CP then this will be ready to go and you can approve this and on January 14th if you were to deny the cup then you just wouldn't approve this on second reading I understand what I'm saying is it doesn't impact your your ultimate decision that that aside so first of all well that's that's not what our package says right our package says we already have 15 units it doesn't say that they're tied to a different cup and we did we need a new the way it should read if what you're saying is the way that we understand it is it should say we are requesting an allocation of 12 units period for this cup this new cup that's what it should say but what it's not what it says what it says is we already have 15 we want to amend it to 12 okay so either those cups you cannot move allocations between the cups or you can't what this says is the presumption is that you're moving units between cups if that's not the case either this package is incorrect or what our understanding is incorrect M mayor if I may please Kristen Coman senior planner um in the ordinance 20247 in the whereas Clause it does say whereas the applicant made uh complete the subject application for development on August uh 2nd 20124 under conditional use permit request 2438 which included a request to draw 12 of the Project's 50 total units from the B Botique Hotel condo District temporary lodging unit density pool with all those units requested for the project which the density exceeds 50 per buildable acre um I think when you're saying let me go to the next side let's see um so they're requesting the 12 as far as this uh slide here it showed the previous one where the total units utilized was 15 that was crossed off um and it was just to really say administratively that those units exist and that's what we're doing as staff is saying we're looking at that uh that density pool and just confirming that that those units exist so far with that 2021 um approval the cup approval myar was the only one that requested any unit so far so from the 125 units that are in our comp plan that allocates those they requested 15 in 2021 which would leave 110 so that's just as where we um created this slide was saying now with this one it would only be 12 and 113 units would remain in that District you're saying that the 15 units are reverting yes well should should the cup get approved and that was part of the approval because they're maintaining that right if you don't approve this new cup that the previous one would still remain so there is that kind of flux going on where they're not going to give up that right and to do that cup with this new project but they are requesting less units so three would go back to the pool okay so again I understand what you're saying okay simply saying the language and the verbiage does not say that because and maybe that's just a poorly written staff summary right so and that's seems to be what it is at this point okay I am clear on that questions comments discussion are we still talking density pool or yes sir we we're only talking density pool well I I but I have something I want to be certain sure I have several questions I'm going to table most of them until the cup but there's a couple comments I have for staff that I just want to make sure before we make a motion that I get them in so you tell me when Okay add your leisure add your leisure so uh this comment is is for staff but it would apply to the applicant uh there's been a lot um once again in my observations uh we've had a lot of conversations uh as it related to um live music at these various um developments um businesses Etc and when the previous City attorney was here he had uh either suggested to staff or I thought staff picked up on it um that um lock boxes might be a requirement um I think we're getting into the details of cup and I think if as I think we're getting into the details of his cup I think if if you have any questions like that we can just address Ed in the city with the city staff and have those questions ready for when when the time comes now that noted this applicants attorney opened the door when she started making comments about the cup and its scope and so on so I will'll we'll let it slide that's okay um you know we're not going to go any further down that road um so let's just stick with the allocation request for 12 units and uh leave the cup for when the cup comes and those details Mr Mayor if I can I would just suggest Mr vice mayor um my client and I both talk regularly with staff about this about the conditions we worked closely with the planning board about the conditions so any questions that you have or suggestions um with conditions if you would please share those with staff we'd be happy to continue those conversations before the next hearing I'll do my best I just think because it's a quas Judicial hearing we just want to stay away from any conversation about the cup for our sake if their attorney opens that door that's good for them but as far as we're concerned I think we should just stay on this side understanding it had been introduced but I I can I I I agree with you I agree with you and I think we should just St on the side of caution on this one um all right Mr City attorney help me understand because is this a Florida statute thing that says you have to do the allocation before you do the cup or is this our comp plan or Land Development code that has this thing so horse C backwards that's our Land Development code okay we can amend Our Land Development code perhaps maybe we should look put that on the list of things because this is completely backwards I mean it's it's the you're looking one of them requires two readings the other one requires only one reading and that creates the problem but we could make it where they either both both can be done by resolution and have one hearing I think what we're doing is trying to amend the code so that requires an ordinance yeah I mean you're you're asking us to weigh in on whether we should allocate these units before having seen the merits of the project there is a Florida statute that allows for development agreements and I've seen in other jurisdictions where complex issues like this are made part of a development agreement that allows uh for a little bit more certainty and flexibility at the same time yeah I I think it's just I think it's probably just a poorly written ordinance so not this one yeah is there a motion to extend the time maybe 10:30 motion to extend the time to 10:30 Second City Clerk if you please do a roll call commissioner Marat yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner Riki yes vice mayor mahand yes mayor patella yes motion carries thank you well I see this as administrative I know it's as confusing as we all might feel I I will um go I this is not a decision by any means this is just that we've got to do this administrative so I will motion to have public comment oh sorry public comment sorry mayor it's all right I don't know if you're waiting or not I was going to do it before after the second because that's still that's that doesn't close the okay no go ahead okay we'll get to public comment good evening Deborah sh I drive in St Pete Beach um before I get on that topic Mike Clark I have happen to have this in my my notebook 53 11623 any deficiencies rise to the level of a moratorium individually or collectively he cat said no that's what I'd let you know that for one of them um I believe this is a property owned by Roberts is on am I correct developer no no oh it's not he did own it at one time no okay don't know all right so then um there you go he keeps having that mattress there so I guess I have to look up um that property I thought um Miramar had issues with part in when they first put forth their um cup they neglected to add parking for a um the rest restaurant on the outside I do remember that I think it's important that [Music] um when you have a cup change you're supposed to go back and start the process over and I do believe that's part of our ordinances or requirements or whatever and this is not only a big cup change but there' have been other as well including the rooftop so I think this possibly needs another hearing regarding can you have a cup change and still go on with the process because we seem to have people coming here and one week after another we're going to add the rooftop it's we're not going to have music but then we'll have ords and wedding SE receptions we have to you know stop all of this when you come this is what you do you can't change it and it's been happening even with the mamore so I would suggest that this project go back to the planning stages and so they'll have all their eggs in a basket thank you I think just for the sake of accuracy this is a different cup it is a completely new application from scratch they did go through the process Community reading yes and I think part of that is because of the comments we've had on previous cups so I I appreciate the fact that they went through all the trouble starting from scratch and and go into that process so it's it's good to see that we're making some progress in these areas commissioner Riki I thought sir yes sir I'm sorry were you g to make a motion yes I was but you can go yeah I I just want to say I mean I'm going to vote for this but I really don't like how this has gone down I mean it's been really clunky um so anyway that's just how I'm feeling but I'm going to vote I'm a motion to approve the first reading of ordinance 2024 d07 Second City Clerk if you'll please do a roll call commissioner res Niki yes commissioner mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes mayor patrilla no motion carries four to one thank you next we have ordinance 7B first reading of ordinance 2024 d18 city clerk thank you an ordinance of the city of St P Beach Florida amending the city's Land Development code division 28 historic preservation section 28.5 ordinary maintenance and repair to allow for administrative exemptions from the substantial Improvement requirements for substantial maintenance and repair to Historic structures providing for codification conflicts severability correction of scribers error construction publication and an effective date Den Sanderson Community Development so this is really just a first read of an emergency ordinance you already passed so um I can certainly get into details I'm not sure that it's necessary and happy to take any questions thank you questions comments is there a motion I'll make a motion to approve the first reading of ordinance 20248 is there a second second City the clerk are the audience comments John kersman Mr kurman are you still here no he was his stuff is right there I I think he he might not have thought we were G to go that F you sign up for this one and the next one he was standing I think he's right there in the lobby maybe oh no that's no that's not him yeah it's not him unless he went to the restroom we're not going to be so mean as to start his clock early he was in the restroom John we almost started the clock without you no we're on the next item the historic resources you signed up for 7B and 7c we are on 7B historic resources yes yes okay neither did we that's why we extended by half an hour if you'll please state your name and address for the record uh uh John kman be Honda away uh and um my my comment about the historic resources is that you know it's you're using a carrot and the carrot is that if you declare your house or you're whatever you're building a historic resource you don't have to deal with the femur Rule and you can repair and my point here is you also have a carrot if you raise your house or your building you also get that same promise that you no longer have to deal with it and shouldn't you make sure that people who do raise at least get the same carrot um and it seems that that's hazy because what I'm finding is that sometimes people don't seem to get the same carrot sometimes it seems people are sometimes getting confused and going no for for houses that are raised you only get an exception for what the rules were not what they are now we need to compare against the new elevator certificates and the new rules so the word is and was seems to be coming up and so I just want to just show you you know real quickly that the the the desktop reference does say you follow the rules for to that they need to be met when the building was constructed if the building is post firm the box says you need to continue to follow the flay management requirs that had to be met when the building was constructed and then even in 2023 the the the plans get stamped no new work is allowed below the BFE all work must show a compliance will not be allowed to make the building non-compliant with any aspect of the building that was required was required for compliance and then the desktop reference 647 work on post fromont buildings has to be met when the building was constructed um and then the insurance says post firm buildings in the regular program building compliance with the flood b regulations in effect at the start of construction will continue to have favorable rate treatment even though higher bfes are more restrictive greater you know so the insurance even stays in effect you get the discounts don't worry you don't have to protect these houses they they their their insurance stays it's grandfathered and it's based on BFE not even DFE so even if your city puts in design flood and says BF plus one doesn't matter the insurance rates are protected for these homes there's grandfathering um and it's even in floodsmart.gov even that definition says policy holders have remained loyal customers have their their their eligible and there's even administrative grandfathering and and even our own PL said if you were built prior to1 femous substantial packages are not required uh if you're after and then I've showed you that memo and the reason I'm flagging this because even now we're now seeing on our website if your home level was constructed key word was constructed um you're okay but now we're saying you need an elevation certificate so what I'm saying is if we're going to say you don't need a FEMA pack oford historic at least put you know your your houses that were that were you know should be grandfathered on the same footing so I'm not against this historic thing but at least use the same carrot and entice people equally to raise their houses if you're going to entice them to be a staric thank you thank you sir questions comment ments is there a motion we have a motion in a second sorry city clerk if you'll please do a roll call commissioner Marriott yes commissioner Robinson yes commissioner Miki yes vice mayor mahand yes mayor patrilla yes motion carries thank you next we have item 7 C final reading of ordinance 202 24-16 city clerk thank you an ordinance of the city of St Pete Beach amend the St Pete Beach code of ordinances section 9835 9836 98-12 2.4 98-12 a.4 and 998-1316 to adopt amendments to the city's code regarding substantial damage substantial improvements look back period and exemptions to Improvement and repair of buildings in the flood Hazard areas providing for severability codification and scrier errors and providing for an effective date thank you who's up forgive me Denise serson uh bere of knowledge here on the process so um my former life we didn't read um present on second read but happy to do so so this is we'll just ask questions if we have any here uh any questions comments for okay no Mr kersman I believe you had a signed up thank you Denise and I'm glad that I actually get to continue okay John kurman see H way so remembering what I just presented um if you look at the at the business impact statement it says any existing residence or business that is not elevated or flood proofed to the currently required standard so remember I just was talking about how all the FEMA documents talk about that you had to comply with the then current standard so back when for instance a lot of the homes were built it was the standard was BFE but now the standard is BFE plus one so by us now saying you need to be the currently standard houses now have to be a foot higher so you've just now made the rule that a house that was compliant or a building that was compliant now has to be a foot higher and is no longer compliant and you think well be a foot higher well it's not easy now if you bought a house and you thought your house was compliant now it's not compliant and that also means that when you did your B business impact study and you wrote All Kil studies built prior to 1975 are the ones that are being impacted by this this business impact statement wouldn't be correct because if the if the if if the level went up by a foot that would mean if you're now going to suck in all the all the properties where it's gone up a foot well now many more properties are going to be affected by this than just the pre-firm or the pre-1975 properties so I'm hoping that it's just the Preamble that's wrong and that we don't really mean to say the current rules but we mean to be saying the the then current rules because if you start making everybody constantly chase the current rules it means you're not just affecting the structures that are pre-firm or pre-1975 as the business binb back statement says you're going to be affecting everyone constantly and everybody who even chases the carrot and says okay I'm going to raise my house why would they do that if next year someone says you know what just like you know they they they tried to do it last year oh you know what I think we ought to do bfv plus two and so the city makes a bfv plus two Rule and the next thing there's a hurri next time there's a hurricane or a flood and someone has significant damage they're going to go oh my God I have to raise my house against six inches and they're just as screwed as everybody who's never done anything to their house and they're all and all those same people are going to get evicted yet again you know who just spent their $300,000 to raise their house or or whatever so you can't have that so you really have to stick with the then current that's in there and I don't even see it in our ordinances where it says that it's now current so that's why I'm saying please put it in your ordinance clearly that it's Zen current just the way you're saying for the historic people you're off the hook thank you City attorney I mean that seems to be a rather important Point well what we're trying to do here is to um I guess the question is if if your house was compliant before does anything that we're doing here put them in Jeopardy of not being compliant no this helps them this is an ordinance that helps helps the people okay okay I'll make a motion to adopt ordinance 202 24-16 and transmit amendments to the Florida Division of Emergency Management I second city clerk is there a roll call sure commissioner Robinson yes commissioner M niiki yes vice mayor mahand yes commissioner Marriott yes mayor Petrella yes motion carries thank you sorry I was confused the the two ordinances ran together the way that they're printed in here so when you said to Florida the division of Emergency Management looked like it belonged to the next ordinance and so just want to make sure that the motion was actually correct um next we have 7D final reading of ordinance 2024 D13 an ordinance of the city of St PE Beach Florida amending Land Development code division 3 administration of the Land Development code section 3.10 vested rights and non-conformities in division 6 supplemental regulations Section 6.14 encroachment of certain specified ancillary residential equipment into required yards repealing emergency ordinances 2024-25 14 containing similar Provisions providing for codification conflicts severability correction of scriveners error construction publication and an effective date thank you city clerk do we have any audience comments any questions comments from the commission is there a motion I make a motion to adopt ordinance 2024-the for discussion next we have uh staff reports city clerk thank you city manager report thank thank you so the attorney nothing at this time thank you District 4 uh yes Mr Mayor uh couple things uh one week uh after uh we had the conversation about the seaw wall ropes and posts on the The Dunes uh work has actually begun so I want to thank the city manager and staff for getting that going in such a expeditious fashion so uh happy to see that uh the passor grill uh Community Association bonfire scheduled for Wednesday December 18th and uh one last uh note to the people who have been asking uh the questions and concerns about parking matters uh the city now has taken the first step in uh processing a request for bids for a parking study so obviously that's not going to happen overnight but it's in the works thank thank you District three um I just wanted to say to thank um the staff for for all that they've been doing um we're about to go into the holidays so I and I know I'll be gone for a little while so I just wanted to um make sure I say that in case I don't see um you all um and also for the residents out there as difficult as as this time has has been for many um for those of you who are able able to volunteer able to help out out or able to give a little bit more for those who are working hard and I say this because I've talked to a couple of workers like the postal office you know uh workers um are mail men's right um and waste management um who typically um you know put out cards for residents in the mailbox um not only because they're they're looking for a little bit it's what they usually rely on during this time um and are not going to be putting these cards in the mailbox because their their companies are not allowing them to do so um so just because you don't see the cards in your mailbox don't forget about them um because you know lot they're not the only ones out there I know there's a lot of other workers out there who usually ex you know it's it's supposed to be a joyful time but it's going to be a very difficult time so just to try to remember those people and if you're able to um not to forget so thank you and happy holidays thank you District Two I just want to say you know thank you again to uh perming staff because I think they've been taking a lot of grief lately uh they recently just uh have a a officer assigned to uh to them so that can tell you how much grief they're actually getting um also I'll be at the library on December 16th from 5: to 600 I hope people show up love to talk about what's going on and and U discuss any issues or or thoughts and and suggestions thank you district one um so I guess the only big news in district one is that lack cette is back open for breakfast on Corey Avenue which is great I know everybody missed missed having that option uh and then I also just recently heard from the um some members of the parent teacher Association that Gul Beach's elementary school will be reopening next fall so um Gulf beaches will have have uh have kids enrolled again um for the 2025 2026 school year so I think that's great news as well and that's all I got I think Tiki Bagel is also open again yeah they're open they've been open for weeks yeah which is I mean they were only open for a couple weeks before they got hit I mean that's you know unfortunate but I'm glad to see them I know they were out the neighborhoods passing a bagels you know immediately after the storm so yeah um just remind everyone that we have a community meeting tomorrow here at City Hall from 5:30 to 7:00 p.m. we will have representatives from FEMA here U we'll have different stations set up and so we'll have be able to sit down and and answer specific questions and we'll also have the staff set up building department with permits set up um she didn't tell you about that surprised sorry um anyway we will have lots of FEMA uh Representatives here the commissioner will be here and some of our staff will be here um you know to to help facilitate some of the discussion and answer some questions um this is our last commission meeting um before January 14th so we'll have a long uh almost five week Break um for those of you that you know we don't see you wishing everybody a Merry Christmas and a in a happy and hopefully much improved New Year thank you everyone we are adjured e