Please rise for the pledge of allegiance. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation indivisibley and justice for all.
Uh, madame clerk, roll call. Member Hurley here. Member Young here. Vice Chair Hawkinsmith here. Member Dashiel here. Chair Lowry here. We have a quorum. Okay. Uh, welcome everybody to the Thursday, September 4th, 2025 historic
preservation board meeting. Uh, before we get to the approval of agenda, do you want to swear in witnesses at this point? And what that is, folks that might give information here, we're supposed to swear you in to make sure that you know you're telling
us the truth. So if anybody wants to is planning on speaking today, um, and let me talk about that for a second. If you're here to speak in general about things, uh, we'll do that in a minute. If you want to speak about a particular
item that's on the agenda, you can wait and speak at that point. So, with that being said, anyone who plans to give information or give testimony, please stand. And Madame Clerk, could you put them under oath? Please raise your right hand. Do you
swear or affirm that the information or factual representation that you're about to give to the board is truthful? Thank you. Thank you, folks. Before we get to the approval of of the agenda, does anybody have any items they'd like to add to the agenda?
I'd like to add a discussion item for um Gulf Beach's Historic Museum update. That reminds me that everyone should turn off their phone, including myself. Okay. So, what was that again? Discussion item one.
Item F for G Beach's Historic Museum. Okay. Anyone else have anything they want to add to the agenda? staff could add an item about road closures. About what? Brandon, I'm sorry. Road closures.
Road closures. Okay. Okay. We'll make that 5G. Okay. Uh with that being said, I would make a a motion to approve the agenda as written and added to. Second. Madam Clerk, roll call, please.
Member Young. Yes. Vice Chair Hawkinsmith, yes. Member Dashiel, yes. Member Hurley, yes. Chair Lowry, yes. Motion carries. Okay. Uh, next, this was that point a minute ago I talked about if you have a
general comment you'd like to make about something uh involving the historic board or the city, which uh isn't particularly dressed addressed in the agenda. Does anybody have anything I'd like to comment on at this point? Okay, seeing uh no comments, we'll go to
item three, approval of minutes, and that would be for the last two, I believe. Uh that would be for the July and August board minutes.
I make a motion to approve the minutes of July 1st, 2025. I would second. Go ahead. I'll second that. Okay. Uh, Madame Clerk, roll call, please. Vice Chair Hawkins Smith, approve. Member Dashel, yes. Member Hurley,
yes. Member Young, yes. Chair Lowry, yes. Motion carries. Next, uh, I think we have to talk about the August 21st uh, minutes. Has anybody had an opportunity to look at that?
I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from August 21st, 2025. Right. I'll second that motion. Madame clerk, roll call, please. Member Dashel, yes. Member Hurley, yes. Member Young, yes. Vice Chair Hawkins Smith, yes.
Member uh Chair Lowry, yes. Motion carries. All right. Now, we will take us to number four, which is the action items. Uh 4 A is a certificate of
appropriateness for the demolition of 104th Avenue, which is case number 2591. Mr. Barry, do you have that? Yes, I do. If we could pull up the PowerPoint and for these first three cases in particular, thank you very much
to the applicants. I know you've been patient with getting these items on the agenda. So, um I believe we have Susan Hat Hatton present for Richard Hatton and Janice Davis. Hey there, she's here. Um they are requesting a certificate of appropriateness for demolition of a
single family residence and garage. They're both contributing resources. The primary residence was also designated as local historic resource 16 back in the 1990s. Uh you can see a photo of the residence on the lefth hand side um from 2015 in
the center and then the structure on the right obviously showing extensive damage posed to lean in and Milton. Uh here were some other photos submitted by the applicant. We have criteria for the issuance of a demolition permit. Um it has not been
the board's policy post storm to uh require stays, but in the case that you wish to do so, um you would be eligible to impose up to a 90-day stay on the residents because it is on the local registry. Staff did review these criteria due to what is clearly significant damage um
that exceeds what staff finds to be a reasonable threshold to require repair. Um we are recommending approval uh without a stay. Um the property could be redeveloped with a similar use and arrangement to what is currently on the property
and the owner is present. Okay. Um before before we get to the owner for a second, I I have a question, Mr. Barry. Um I know you put this on all the staff reports where it talks about the potential changes uh that may occur
down on Pastor Grill and and the size of this lot. They couldn't build to the underlying zone anyway, could they? No, they couldn't. Um, it's it is based on lot size and they would they would be limited regardless. But just just a
general note for any of these applications. I I just wanted to make sure that I had clarification. I understand why we want to include those, but um in this particular case, it would have to be built under the overlay um regardless. Yes. Because of the size of the lot. Is that correct? Correct. Yes.
Okay. Ma'am, would you like to speak? If you have any questions, I can answer them. Otherwise, you know, we get out the application. Okay. We're sorry to see it go. Yeah. To see it go, but there's really no choice. Could you just state your name for the
record, please? Susan Hatton. And Miss Hatton, do you already have plans for a new structure? No, we are going to sell the lot. Okay. All right. I was just going to say if you did uh obviously at some point we might be interested in seeing those but I would also encourage you if you were
going to put plans to get with the uh city and historic uh get our recommendations crap or or our um suggestions before you made plans. So because so many people have already got new designs before they even come and find out what's up. So all right I
appreciate it ma'am. Um anybody have any questions for Miss Hatton? So sorry for your loss. Yes, we we Yeah. It's only been 110 years, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anybody have a motion?
Go ahead, Sean. Um make a motion for the certificate of appropri for demolition number 255091104th Avenue. I'll second. Madam Clerk, roll call, please. Member Hurley. Yes. Member Young,
yes. Vice Chair Hawkins Smith, yes. Member Dashill, yes. Chair Lowry, yes. Motion carries. And also, I think we probably should have put in that motion, and correct me if I'm wrong. Yes. Without without a stay, so you can demolish it at your
You're all in agreement. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure may not be the right word. Okay. 4B is a certificate of appropriateness for demolition of 1082nd Avenue which is case number 255092.
Also Susan Haden's property for Richard Hatton. Um the applicants requesting a certificate of appropriateness. This is not a locally designated structure. It is a contributing resource single family home. You can see on the left the photo from the RE survey in 2015 and then on the
right with the damage um following the hurricanes. Here's some additional photos that were taken by staff. Same criteria as the previous case, but again the stay would be limited to 30 days should the board wish to impose one.
Um we do ask for just a bit more applicant testimony. Um, of course, our assessment was back in late 2024 was only looking at the exterior of the structure. In most cases, we did assess the damage to be less than the substantial damage threshold. The applicant has indicated that there was
more extensive damage and they of course have their own justification for demolition of the structure. So, we just asked for them to uh speak to that briefly. As I mentioned with the previous um case, I don't have any concerns with the use, the arrangement, the density of the property. um they
would be subject to the overlay requirements should they move forward um in the future, but they are able to redevelop a single family home on the property. So, that being said, um pending that applicant testimony, um we do recommend
approval of this case um without a stay. Okay. So, for the applicant's testimony, what do you wish to inquire of Miss Hatton and her response? Um, as I mentioned, the city's uh substantial damage estimate was was under the 50% threshold, but we're not necessarily
aware of all the interior conditions or, you know, the the current state of the the structure. So, if you could just speak to that briefly. The current state of the structure was totally inundated with water. We had about 30 in I guess or something like
that. Uh, everything inside was damaged. Everything. We removed the, you know, was for the plaster, cabinets, everything in the house. There's nothing left. Toilets, you know, everything.
When we looked at it, we thought that it would just be too much to repair. And you know, we were looking at uh well anyway, the electric to bring it up to code, it's going to be at least
25,000. You know, replace the walls. Well, it's 20,000 to take them off. Now, I'm sure it's going to be more than 20,000 to put them on. Every door in the place needs to be replaced. I mean, closet doors, you know, in and out. Every door, garage
door, safety. We had to bring the windows up to code and that I don't know if you've done windows but 50,000 is the lowest estimate that I well miss the the reason we're up to 100,000
right the reason we're really asking this question it's not so much we want to make sure you understand which I'm sure you do but this is for the public as well if if if your damage was under 50% then obviously you could
rebuild the house as it was. Okay. And that's your option because as you know and everybody else I think knows here is we can't stop a demolition. So you could have a brand new brand new house and you could demolish it if you wanted to. Okay. Um but we want to make sure you
know that you had the option or have the option to repair it as it is. Uh and of course was historically designated you could probably even get around the 50% rule. All right. So, as long as you're you're good with that, you know, it's not so much
important to us uh you know, how much it's going to cost, whatever. Let me ask you this question again. Is that also a property you plan on selling or are you going to rebuild there as well? Sell and where, you know, okay, we've collected on our insurance once. The
second storm will collect, you know, again, but they'll make us raise it or tear it down. So, and I, you know, I just can't see that. Well, no. No, it's not. I mean, we're not here. It's not just a financial,
right? And and understand that, you know, part of the of what we're doing here is we have our duty, I suppose, as historic board is try to preserve the historic structures if we can. We realize it's oftentimes going to be issues, but we want to make sure that
the people that are making decisions are fully informed as what they can and cannot do. So, sounds like you know what's going on. Okay. I'm 75 years old. My brother is younger, but uh we're just getting up there in years and just can't see.
Sure. You know, spending all that time and money. Okay. Um All right. Anybody else have any questions? Yeah, but I'd like to make a motion to approve the certificate of
appropriateness for demolition number 255092 for 108 22nd Avenue without a stay. I'll second that motion. Madam clerk, roll call, please. Member Young,
yes. Vice Chair Hawkinsmith, yes. Member Dashiel, yes. Member Hurley, yes. Chair Lowry, yes. Motion carries. All right. Thank you, ma'am. You're welcome. Thanks for all the work you did, too. I mean, the staff did a lot of work uh
after we made our report. You know, we filled out all that stuff, but they did a lot of work and I think that they deserve some credit for that. And uh and thanks for being on the board, too. Thank you. Historic stuff, it is important. And we wish we could keep our
houses. Well, we only hope the people who buy your lot agree and they want to build something that fits into the neighborhood. So, I will make sure that I say that. Okay, that would be great. Thank you, Miss Hatfield. I'll let them know. Thank you. Yeah, we love Saf Beach, but we don't
like Thanks a lot. Thank you. Fair enough. Okay, now we move on to 4C which is certificate of appropriateness case number 255076 for the flood plane management
regulation FEMA variance number 255077 for 3110 Passover way. Hey, good afternoon Mr. Chair, board members Gil Martinez, senior planner with community development. Before you today
is a request for a certificate of appropriateness as well as a FEMA variance. That would be for case numbers 2576 and 2577 located at 3110 Pasigril Way. The
applicant owner Paul Sierra and Leslie Van Trump on behalf of Adrienne Timl and Alexander Angelman are requesting a certificate of appropriateness and FEMA variance to the floodplane management regulations for the renovation and expansion of the kitchen area on the
contributing cottage outbuilding by less than 70 square feet for a locally designated property at 32 at 3110 Pasril way. Here is a zoning map illustrating the
zoning and the location an aerial of the property. Can I ask you a question here just while you're here, Mr. Martinez? So, this is a secondary structure, an out building they're want the remodeling on. Is that right? That's correct. And so, in this p aerial picture, I actually drove by there today, but I
couldn't see around the fence. the structure is is the the one on the alley. Is that right? That is correct. And I and I apologize because I believe this aerial picture is capturing two separate properties and it's actually property number three that you'd be looking at. Yeah. I mean on on our one that's on our
website here, it's a pretty clear picture. Okay. You can see that one much easier. Thank you. It's your record. Here is um obviously our public hearing posting. General photographs of the exterior of
the property itself. Here's where you start getting some some visuals of the area in question, the renovation area, the the cottage in the back towards the alley. These are current condition site that were provided by the applicant in
their backup. This is a a slide um speaking to the scope of work for the certificate of appropriateness. It speaks to the scope of work both for the exterior and the interior of the cottage remodeling. The intent of the request is to expand
the kitchen area by less than 70 square feet. Convert to convert the two-bedroom windows to French door facing the patio and elevate the flat portion of the roof to match the elevation of the peak gable portion. To the left, you would see the existing
floor plan. To the right, you would see the proposed floor plan. You can see how it's been closed off by approximately 70 ft. some orthographic views of the structure. So, this addition is extending out into
the east side yard space, right? Not going out into the sideyard or going out onto the alley, just in the east side yard space. That is correct. Yes. Um, the criteria for the issuance of the certificate of appropriate shall be consistent with the US Secretary of the
Interior Standards for Rehabilitation, sections 36 and 37. What I just found out is the Code of Federal Regulations. The requested certificate of appropriateness is consistent with section 288 and the Secretary of
Interior standards for rehabilitation. The proposed work retains the historic character and the materials in such a manner that it preserves the distinctive features and finishes, minimizes changes to defining characteristics, repairs rather than replaces historic elements,
uses gentle cleaning methods, protects archaeological resources, ensures new work is compatible yet distinguishable, and maintains the integrity if of the FE maintains the integrity if feature removal is needed.
Variance from flood plane regulations case 25707. So variance from the flood plane management regulation is being sought to re to renovate 3110 passway as listed and described in the staff report. The estimated cost of the renovation is
$75,000 which exceeds a substantial improvement value of 15,630 allowed by FEMA and by way of Penelis County Property Appraisers valuation. So currently this structure is valued at
just over 30,000. Is that correct? I don't know exactly off the top of my head what the actual value of that structure would is. I know for a fact that substantial improvement value of 15630. I'm assuming that's the 50%. That is the 50%. So you Yeah, one can
assume that it's 30,000. I I just don't have the numbers in front of me right now to make a complete statement on that. Staff finds that the requested FEMA flood plane varian variance is consistent with the criteria in section 2816.
The request applies to a historic structure designated by the city, meets national register state historic places listing requirements, ensures the structures continued historic designation is the minimum necessary to preserve the original structures
historic character. Staff finds that the proposed certificate of appropriateness and FEMA variance are consistent with the city's St. Pete Beach land development code. The work is minimal, historically appropriate, and maintains the character
of the contributing structure. Staff recommends approval of the proposed certificate appropriateness case 2576 and the FEMA variance case number 2577 from the flood plane medic management regulations.
Staff recommends the following actions. A motion to approve the requested certificate of appropriateness case 2576 as proposed and outlined in the scope as described in the staff report and a motion to approve the requested FEMA
variance case 2577 from the flood plane regulations for the property at 3110 passway to allow for the scope of work as proposed in the application and outlined in the staff report.
I'm available to take any questions you may have and I'm I'm not certain if the applicants or the owners are here, but if they are, I'm sure they could answer any questions you may have as well. Okay. Does anybody have any questions for Mr. Martinez? I have one question. I This was or is on
the local register? That is my understanding. Yes. Um are both structures on the register refer referenced on that designation? Okay. I have ma'am, could you just would you ma'am, could you please just state your name
for the record and come on up so we know? Yeah, please. Thank you. Have to do things officially here, right? Yeah. I'm Adrienne Timl. I am um I own the home with my husband, Alex. Um when we first started this process, yes, we know that um the value is low of the house,
but the value is very high to us because that's where grandparents stay. We have a family uh with four boys and they tend to stay in that cottage when we go out to the beach and they can, you know, drink their coffee in peace in the morning and we just want to do a modest expansion. Um we also got hit by the
hurricane in Tampa. So the idea of demoing this modest accessory structure that has highly functional for us um and dealing with another full-blown project rather than a modest enhancement um that just wasn't palatable. So, we're going to go with we would like to do a modest
enhancement in keeping with the craftsman style of Passagril. Um, when we first looked into this, because of the substantial damage, we did confirm with a lovely woman who worked with the board in here. I'm forgetting her name. This was a while back, but yes, the
accessory structure is also on the listing. I think it's number 60 or something like that. I think you you have a plaque on the front car. Yeah, I know. One of those original plaques. So cute. So yeah, they both are. Glad you're saving it. Yes,
you. We are, too. Um, yeah, I was, you know, I before we have a motion or whatever, I I this is what we really want to do. You you this is we we have to grant demolitions, etc., but we love when people try to retain the homes and take
advantage of the historic aspect and get around some of the FEMA uh regulations. Yeah, we're pleased to be able to do it. And um I will say in Tampa um the preservation board is not quite as flexible and a little difficult of a
process. So this has been a much smoother, friendlier process. We're trying to make it Yeah. that um makes preservation doable. And I mean in other areas it's not as doable. People really shy away from those homes because of the burdens
um and the high bar. And I mean I think that anything here in Pasacro, everyone understands the character here and what we're trying to maintain. So, well, we we I'm going to disagree with you. I think a lot of the new people don't. And that's the problem, especially after the storm, we're getting so many demolitions and
you know, some of the new places agenda item and so that's why I say we really appreciate when when people do exactly what you're doing. Anybody have any questions for this lady? Okay. Anyone have a motion? I'll make a motion.
All righty. I'll uh move to approve certificate of appropriateness for case number 255076 and flood plane management regulation FEMA variance number 255077 for the property at 3110 Pasway. I'll second that.
Madame clerk, roll call, please. Vice Chair Hawkinsmith. Yes. Member Dashiel? Yes. Member Hurley? Yes. Member Young? Yes. Chair Lowry? Yes. Motion carries. Thank you, ma'am. All right, moving along. 4 D is a
certificate of appropriateness for demolition case number well, excuse me, of the residence at 2550 Pascal Way, which is case number 25110. Thank you, Chair. And this is a certificate of appropriateness for
demolition of a single family residence. This is a contributing resource. it is not on our local historic registry. Uh you can see some photos here on the left from the 2015 RE survey where it was determined a contributing resource. On the right the residence in 2023
obviously pretorm. Here's some photos of the site uh post hurricane. The Banyan is still at the front of the site. Um, with this residence in particular, I do just want to point out this is one of the homes with the roughs on wood siding, which is
a fairly unique feature, at least county for homes. Um, and also the addition to the back of the structure. I don't have a date on that. Um, it's fairly hard to see through these photos except in the right uh right photo looking from the back of the property. Uh, that is a
upper level edition as well as a rooftop deck. Um, I do think it was very well designed. And I just wanted to comment on that. It's it's fairly well hidden from uh the street through uh by the gable. Of course, there was more vegetation in place um I believe pre-torm um but that is what I feel to
be a very um very contextsensitive addition and and something that I feel that was was very well done at the time. So with that being said, um this is eligible for a stay of up to 30 days, subject to the same criteria as the
other cases. Um our assessment, which again was only for the exterior of the structure, found the damage to only be 24%. Again, this was close to a year ago. Now, um the applicant had referenced uh damage to the foundation um which
again the photos mostly supported the the interior damage to the structure. So, that might be something they want to speak to. Um, we did not perform an interior inspection to my knowledge. This is another structure where they are currently undersized for the zoning district. So, they would need to build
to the overlay regardless, but if they do move forward after the devel after the overlay amendments are adopted, they would need to follow the um the additional requirements that we've been working through over the the last few years. So that being said, um we just do ask
for applicant testimony on the damage to the foundation. Should they provide adequate testimony? We do mo ask for a motion to approve this case without a stay on demolition. Merry, before we get to that moment, I just have a question just for clarification or my own edification.
What's this the the size lot that needs to be necessary for the underlying zone? So, south of 21st, it's typically 44 feet in width and 4,400 square feet in area. North of there, it's usually 6,000
square ft and 60 ft in width. There is a little bit of variance to that, but that's that's standard. So, this is like at 57* 98T. So, that's just kind of right under where they need to be. Just under. Yeah. Okay. Appreciate that. That for future use. Okay. Okay. Is any anybody uh the
applicants here, anybody want to speak on this? Yes, sir. Come forward. My name is Michael Julian. I'll be designing the house. The owner and the contractor have asked me to come since they've both been out of town. And I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. uh the client is the reason that
they're they're wanting to u demolish a house other than the fact of the damage and there is extensive damage inside the house. The house is a frame structure and so all the frame is you know sword water and uh there's rot inside and uh and the the family has uh the client has
a has a larger family uh and they would like to be able to accommodate them when they come to the house. If you look at the uh uh the street, you'll see uh that there's very little parking in front of the house because the house is very close to the street. So, they would like to set the house back in harmony with
other houses that are along Passway. And uh and of course, they want to build a house that's appropriate to the area. It's a very eclectic area, although which is very interesting, but it's uh but we also want to be able to be sensitive to to the design features of
the rest of the neighborhood. Okay. Is that enough as far as what you need for Okay, it is. Um, yeah. Was what was I think Julian? Is that Julian? J U L I A N. Thank you, sir. And have you done your uh made plans for this house yet?
Architecture. We started preliminaries. The problem is we cannot get in because of the house being there. We cannot get in to do soils tests back of the house. We have to remove the house to be able to do that. And we're assuming, of course, it's going to be pilings. We don't have any doubt about that. But we are looking at a uh at a three-story
structure uh two stories of living over garages and storage underneath. Okay. And of course, one of the things we're always concerned about is the and I you've kind of referred to it, but the architectural aesthetic to make sure it fits in with the rest of Yeah. we have on Pascal, which is very
eclectic, but I think if you've been down there, which I'm sure you have, you recognize that some of the newer homes don't really fit into the architectural aesthetic. And so we would certainly encourage you to do a a a plan that that would do it. I've lived on Treasure Island for 39
years, so I've done a lot of structures around and we did talk to Brandon before we even got started with everything about the uh Excellent about the setbacks and the aesthetics and he gave me the information that we need to meet as far as the criteria is concerned. And and this is only the owners of this
property also own the next door lot. Yes, they do. Okay. Which is a newer house but a nice house. So that's fine. Good. Um, another question I have, this may sound a little bit odd, but you know that first off, you personally speaking, I think that's a great house. I'm really sad to see it go. I understand these
issues, but those I guess they're cypress sighted is what they really are, right? Uh, there's a few of those on Pascal, but they're really unique and and and really nice. And when you when and if you demolish this. Okay. Um
will you preserve some of that sighting or because I know there's people out there that want to do addition to old homes and stuff and that's very hard to get a hold of. Yeah, I know. Well, the next door neighbor, the casinos, they this client, they've already actually given them some of the siding to be able to repair their house.
Yes. Excellent. Excellent. So, yes. Yeah, we're sensitive to that and and again, you know, obviously to to incorporate that then into a new design just to find that sighting is very difficult right now. But yeah, it's interesting. Okay. Um, anybody have any questions, Mr. Julian?
Okay. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Thank you. and Brandon. But uh just to be clear again, this this is not designated at this point, right? No, not all right.
Okay. Uh I'll make a motion for certificate of appropriateness for demolition of 255 Pastor Girl Way, which is case number 25110. Uh and without a stay. I second.
Madame clerk, roll call, please. Vice Chair Hawkinsmith, approve. Member Dashel, yes. Member Hurley, yes. Member Young, yes. Chair Lowry, yes. Motion carries. And Mr. Julian, I'd like to thank you again that you've done so much prep work before you came in here that you could
answer those questions. I appreciate that. That's what we want to hear. Thank you, sir. Okay. 4E certificate of appropriateness for demolition of 10813th Avenue case number 25116. Yes. The owners for this case are Jane
and Michael Gilbert Gilbertson and this is a contributing resource to the Passover grill overlay district that they are seeking this demolition request for. You can see here photos of the site on the left from the 2015 RA survey on the
right the residence in 2025 and some more photos of the structure taken by staff. This is a contributing resource eligible for a stay of up to 30 days subject to the same criteria.
Um in this case we did find that there was justified extent of damage. um our estimate actually exceeded 100%. Um so it would cost more to restore than the uh depreciated value of the structure. We also found that it's not one of the last remaining examples of the frame vernacular style in pass. It does have
that unique sighting, but um there have been some significant modifications to the home over time that are more contemporary. And as with the other cases, the existing option to develop to the underlying zoning district would be removed in the future um depending on when they plan to come in for new development if they if they choose to do
so. Uh with that being said, um we don't see any reason for a stay or additional applicant testimony unless they wish to do so. We do ask for a motion to approve this case without a stay. Is there applicant here? Anyone want to
speak on this? Come forward, please. My name is Michael Gilbertson. I am the uh owner along with my wife Jane Gilbertson of the subject property. And we did uh go through, you know, different options of, you know, restoring it back to what it was, lifting it and and trying to do, you know, what we could and it just doesn't
prove out to be economically feasible at this point. We we're sorry to see it go. We nicknamed it the Betty after the previous owner. So, we're we're sorry to see the Betty go. Right. Do you have plans? At this time, uh, we're doing clear of the site and we haven't decided whether
we'll sell the site, rebuild. It was a rental income for us, a rental property for us. So, at this point, we're not clear on that. Okay. We just like we always say, and I think you know, you obviously have are familiar with Pascrow already. So, you know, if if you do decide to
build yourself, I mean, please get the city involved. Definitely will because you know we find a lot of people I think that they may have an architect from out of state been down to pass a girl. I'm an architect from out of state. So yeah. And you you own the adjacent property
right on Golf Way. Yes. The new it's I think a new build by Alvarez if I'm not mistaken. Yes. Correct. Yeah. All right. Okay. Um thank you sir. Appreciate it. Unless anybody has any questions. Oh. All right. Thank you. Okay. Motion. Yep.
I'd like to make a motion that we approve the certificate of appropriateness for demol demolition number 25116 at 10813th Avenue without a stay. Second.
Madam clerk, roll call, please. Member Dashill, yes. Member Hurley, yes. Member Young, yes. Me uh Vice Chair Hawkinsmith, yes. Member Lowry. Yes. Motion carries. Okay. Now we'll move on to
4F, which is a local historic designation for 8345 Bokea Drive, case number 2582. Good afternoon. Lin Rosetti, contract planner in historic preservation for the city of St. Pete Beach.
This property is a local designation request from Dennis and Sandra Sullivan. It's this house's Florida master site file form was done in 1987 by Glattis Cook who was the person who surveyed all
of Pasigril back at that same time period. But she had also been tasked with looking around the rest of the island of St. Pete Beach to see if there were other houses that she should be designating and sending Florida master sight file forms to the state and this
was one of the properties that she selected. This property is located at 8345 Bokea Drive in St. Pete Beach, Florida. It was built, it says circa 1925.
And I will let you know that when I worked for the city of St. Petersburg a few a few decades ago um a lot of properties if they did not know the exact date the county would always put 1925. It's believed that this house is
older than that. It is um located at like I said at 38 8345 Bokea Drive and it current location in its current location it was put there in 1938.
The Pumpkin Shell which it's called by its owners historically is one of the oldest houses in the North Beach area of St. Pete Beach. Although the area has not been historically surveyed to date, a field windshield survey located uh
during when we were getting ready to prepare the application for the North Beach survey application, that was one of the ones that we had we had looked at and felt had potential historic significance. The city of St. P Beach recently was
notified by the state that a grant has been awarded to go ahead and survey this area in its entirety. In fact, the contract is going to be reviewed by the city commission on the 22nd of September
to to do the whole North Beach area. The island of Long Key historically housed four townships. Passigril Dons is our place, Belle Vista and St. Petersburg Beach and Corey and this
particular area in question where the pumpkin shell is was in the North Beach and St. Petersburg Beach area. St. Petersburg Beach was platted in 1919
by William Mcadoo on land he he acquired from C. Perry Snell and Roy Hannah both who were St. Petersburg proper um developers and later those holdings were
sold to Nathaniel Uppam who actually developed um much of this area. This house interestingly enough like I said it was moved it was actually moved from the city of St. Petersburg
where it was built in 1925 or or earlier and then what happened is that it was moved it was trucked over the Makatu bridge by somebody to bring this house and
other houses over to the city of St. Pete Beach. Actually, it was it was actually the township of St. Petersburg Beach. And this was done in the 1930s and it was
not put on the current lot where it was house. A number of houses were brought over here. I understand that some of them may have been relocated even to Pasagril and around the whole island of Long Key which is what St. Petersburg
Beach was called back then because it had the four municipalities. And um so the reason why it was actually it came over trucked over in 19 in the 1930s is that because
of the depression. Well, first of all, you had the 20s boom era and especially in the city of St. Petersburg, there was a lot of development going on, not just buildings, but also infrastructure development. And so when the depression hit, folks that had property in St.
Petersburg were being hit with very high tax bills and so consequently a lot of the houses owners were abandoning their houses and they were offering them so they get something out of the property by having giving them away almost, you
know, very low sale. And so because of that economic depression and people abandoning abandoning their houses, these homes were often even totally abandoned and then they were moved elsewhere.
The integrity of 8345 Bokea Drive remains intact and is wellmaintained. Stylistically, the house is representative of bungalow, the bungalow craftsman architecture. staff has taken a look at this property's significance and finds that
it reflects the broad cultural history of the North Beach area and it's a residential component is um consistent with a lot of the other properties in the neighborhood. It embodies the distinctive visible characteristics of the bungalow
craftsman architecture styler period and it's associated with the life of Yolandi Van I'm going to get this pronounced incorrectly Risma who married who owned the house and was active an active community organizer and hostess
between 1946 and 1975 and in 1975 before her death misma uh transferred ownership of the house to her granddaughter, Sandra Sullivan, who is in the audience today
with her husband. and staff is recommending that this contributing residential structure be recognized as a locally designated historic landmark property because it is significant and is well-maintained property that retains its integrity and
is an excellent representation of city of St. Pete St. Pete Beach architecture and also um architecture found in on some of the other areas like Belle Vista for example. It's it
certainly is generally post World War II, but some of these houses started coming here during the depression. So staff is recommending that this contributing residential structure be recognized as a locally designated
landmark because it is significant and well-maintained property. It's been here for quite some time and its architecture has remained architecturally intact and can be glad to answer any questions that you may have. And I know
that the Sullivans are here and would like to speak. Thank you. Thank you. Ma'am, would you like to come forward? Speak. Oh, sir. I apologize. I thought it was.
Please state your name for the record. I'm Dennis Sullivan. And my wife Sandra Sullivan is here, too. She's the real owner. She inherited the house in 1975. and my son Peter Sullivan is is here
also. U thank you for your time and um I really enjoyed looking into the history of our house and and of the neighborhood. Um and it led to me putting together a booklet which
uh documents what we know about the house's history. It was it was a lot of fun to do and it turned out it's a very interesting story. Um, I'm sure you have a shared interest in in the history of the area. Um, I think I provided copies of that booklet to everybody. If you
didn't get it or if you want another copy, um, let me know and our son Peter can can can give you a copy. Uh, the staff report was very very complete and I don't have much to add, but I would um
ask you to look at two pages if you have it from the booklet. Um, one is the cover page, uh, which shows can watercolor from just interrupt. Can we put that on the overhead there for him? Just so we we're
on the same page literally. Where do I put it? Yeah. Okay. Oh, there. Yeah. Oh, perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, this shows a watercolor from 1946. um just after Sandy's grandmother bought
the house. And this uh photograph was taken uh this summer from the same vantage point. And you can see that the basic exterior appearance of the house is the same. Um the woman in the door is
Sandy. Um so it's a before and after. And there's another uh before and after because if you'll turn the page to the inside page, these pictures are
also of Sandy at the age of three in the backyard of our house, this house. Um along with her grandmother, Yolan Van Risma um in the boat and she is property
owner. She's here today. So, the house has been in our family for 79 years and covering seven generations. Uh Sandy and I raised our children in the house and we've lived there for most
of our lives. So, the history of the house means a lot to us personally. Uh but we think the house has sign significant uh historical interest to the city. Um as detailed by Ms. Rosetti,
it's one of the oldest houses in this end of the island. It's one of the few remaining houses of the the pre-war uh bungalow uh architectural style. U that's a nice expression for it. the the the construction old-timers say this is a
cracker house. Um woodframe construction typically raised up a couple of feet and put on um cement pilings, short cement pilings. Um those two feet turned out to be very important
in Hurricane Helen. The house did get flooded in Helen the first time in all of those years. the uh over 80 years uh that it got flooded. Uh but the damage
wasn't wasn't terrible. As I said, there are very few of these houses around. I could only spot 12 other pre-war cracker style houses north of 75th Avenue. And of those, just six of them appear to be occupied. Uh the
rest of them I think will be lost because of of Hurricane Helen. Um the old the old expression is no house is ever finished and this one's 100 years old. I can tell you it's not finished and no house lasts forever. Uh
but for 79 years uh our family has maintained and restored and improved the pumpkin shell and we're proud of it. um historic designation will help us continue to do that. It'd be good for us
and good for the city. Um any questions or what did I leave out? Well, I want to thank you for that wonderful historical narrative that you gave us that that was wonderful and that'll go in the permanent record so people will have
that will be preserved. And did you ever find out when you were doing your research what How why it was named pumpkin shell? That's my going to be my question. My grandmother named it. Uh she was a
a very vivaceious um artistically inclined person uh given to grand gestures. And so she she had bought a house down in Florida and decided to give it a grand name. She called it the pumpkin shell. Why she came up with that, I couldn't tell you.
It's from the nursery rhyme. It's still the pumpkin shell eater. put her in a pumpkin shell and there he kept her very well. That's right. Oh, well, I'm sure you're right about that. I didn't I forgot that one. That's very interesting and very fascinating and a
great story and we really really appreciate you putting the time and effort in and it, you know, this is the kind of stuff that makes our job feel worthwhile. So, I I appreciate it very much, sir. Thank you for your consideration. Okay. Um, any other questions of anyone?
All right. I'll make a motion that we uh take that we do a local historic designation for 2582 and case number, excuse me, 2582 for the residence located at 8345 Boa Drive.
Second. Madame Clerk, roll call, please. Member Hurley? Yes. Member Young? Yes. Vice Chair Hawkins? Yes. Member Dashill? Yes. Chair Lowry. Yes. Motion carries. Thank you, sir. Thank you.
Okay. Next, we move on to discussion items. 5A is a design review for 1032nd Avenue. Pull up PowerPoint, please. Some other photos of the prior cases
work through. So, this is a little bit different from the design reviews the board typically sees, which are typically um new construction on vacant or demolished and and redeveloped lots. Um this applicant is Cal Webster for Kimberly and Steven
Turner, addresses 103 Second Avenue. Uh this is a combination of standards, but it's partially a design review pursuant to the land development code section 20.15 for a house medium style development. Uh it is partially subject to our vested rights and non-conformity
section as well which is to convert an existing contributing one-story residence that floor to parking storage and access and construct above a re-established living level. So they are making the structure flood plane compliant but they're taking they're keeping the
structure on the on the property and they're they're adding a living level above to to accomplish that. So I'll go through the design quickly. Um, you can see the footprints of the structures are very similar. There is a little bit of infill just south of the garage. Um, but
otherwise the footprint more or less matches the structures level that's being converted. Uh, they're also putting some additional landscaping in on the south side as required by the elevated building standards uh, section of the Pascal overlay.
I can see the current structure on the left and then on the right uh the proposed structure. They are keeping the coina siding. Um they also are keeping the uh well it's it's combination of lights on the on the alleyway side but the windows um window style on the north
top of the building is similar to that on the bottom. Um on the top they will have Hardy lap siding horizontal which matches the brick work on the um converted lower level. And you can see here at the top of the
screen the rear of the structure viewed from the alley and then on the bottom the uh east side of the structure uh which is also along an alleyway. They are preserving the vehicle access to the site to the garage at the northeastern
side of the site there. and then another zoomed in showing the back of the structure as it exists currently. Uh you can see here the interior layout. The reason this is being undertaken um we have two processes through which the historic preservation board can approve
lesser setbacks than the underlying zoning district would allow for. The first is for contributing structures that are remaining contributing resources. uh staff had assessed that option. That's not necessarily an option for this structure, which we'll get into in a moment. We also have the design
review process. Just as any new home would be eligible for those lesser overlay setbacks, uh the applicant would be taking advantage of those with this with this design. We had a few comments on the case. We have gone over these with the applicant as well as the owners. Um we did find
that the design generally meets the design criteria. The new story contains similar space as windows, siding orientation, and color pallets as the converted ground level. The massing of the building we found to be appropriate for the area. This is a little bit different from what the board typically sees, but we do feel that it's an
appropriate use of the structure given the damage given the um the goals of the owners to um you know preserve the structure as it exists today with it its general spaces and layouts. I did speak to the owners about this. Um they have acknowledged that the modification just
because it is a permanent conversion, it couldn't be deconverted. Um it's likely to remove the structures historic integrity. One of the major benefits of uh keeping a home and and renovating and and not undertaking this kind of work is that it allows for the living level to
be preserved at grade or slightly elevated, not above the flood plane. Um the owner is undertaking this work obviously to make the home FEMA compliant. There may be future incentives in the that are introduced whe if the city were to enter into a Florida main street program or offer
other incentives to historic structures in the future that this structure would not necessarily be eligible for. But we do feel that it preserves that design integrity and we do feel they've done a very good job with that. Um, one of the distinguishing features of the residence was the metal fill grade post at the
corner at the porch. Those are being removed. They're being replaced with aluminum. I assume that's for structural integrity. I just would like the the applicant to speak to that. Um the roof is being changed from concrete tile to a metal standing seam. That is obviously a significant modification. I assume it's
for um the life of the roof, but I would like the applicant to speak to that. And we have talked to the applicant. As I mentioned before, this is a combination of different standards in the land development code because they are undertaking the design review process instead of the uh contributing
structure. um addition standard. They the rear of the structure, the living level that's being reestablished above and the rear 15 feet, which is about the last four feet of the structure near the alley, um is limited in height to the living level that is being converted. Uh
so that's approximately 8 feet at the rear of the structure. The reason for that is because that portion of the structure is not compliant with the design overlay requirements for a house medium. So the applicant and the owner are aware of this. they are going to keep the rear of the structure um for
that at least that 4 feet at the living level height that is being converted. Uh the remainder of the structure will step up which is allowed by the code. I just wanted to point that out to the board. So with that being said um this is a design review. The board is eligible to
make comments that insist or that is that assist with the compatibility of the structure within the district. This is a single family use. So there are no other form of mass limitations other than those required under the design regulations. So there's no limitation in square footage that they would face as a
multifamily structure would on this property. Happy to answer questions. We also have the applicant and I believe the owner's present. Yes. Brand I'm going to ask you to go back to the uh previous slide. I guess we call
it number five. Can you can you explain that a little bit more? I mean, I know you just did a pretty I mean, a good job as far as that goes, but I didn't quite is is that the area that's like above where like the carport would have been the cutout. Yeah. So, that's that would be the
garage at the rear of the structure. They're also adding a stair with access and and landing at the rear, which they're eligible to do. Um the city passed regulations at the end of last year that allows for structures that are non-compliant to the setbacks to be
either elevated in place or the ground level converted um and the living level established above in the same footprint. So they don't need to comply with the setbacks. They would not need to get variances for that. However, the living level that is reestablished within the
setback cannot be any greater in height than the one that is being converted. So, the structure steps up, and the owner can confirm this, but I believe it steps up to about 11 feet at its highest point. Um, and and that portion of the structure is compliant with the setbacks. So, they can go as high as
they would like as long as they're compliant with the district regulations, but that rear four feet of the building because it doesn't meet the setbacks for the overlay. They do need to keep that at 8T and they have acknowledged that and they will be compliant. I I appreciate that. That's because this is a
kind of a new thing for us, I think, which I think is interesting, but it's great, too. I mean, I'm glad that people are converting or, you know, attempting to convert the lower floors and, you know, kind of duplicating what they had before, but on a on a second level. Uh, is the
applicant here want to step forward? Whoever wants to come out, we just Yeah. If you would state your name for the records, please or the record. Uh, Cower Pioneerville contractor. Want to state your name, please, sir? Kim Turner.
Okay. Oh, hi. I How are you? Uh, questions. Oh, one one thing I have and this is kind of the owner's there and I'm sure you've probably gone through this, but I just I just want to point this out in case it's something I I don't think you're aware of because I I
think as we get some redevelopment there after the storm, you know, you know, you could I'm not saying you you probably know this and decided not to do it, but you know, you can if your house was historically designated, you could raise
it up in the and not have to be FEMA compliant and still retain the historic nature of the house. Many people don't want to do that because they want to be FEMA compliant and they want and they're, you know, concerned with if we got another storm,
how high in the air you want to be. You know, I would point out that some of the old houses on Pascrow actually didn't get flooded. The ones that were built maybe in the 20s were maybe four feet off the ground. So you all know that and and Okay. I just want to make sure I want to make sure that that's something
that you considered and and pushed by. We we did look at those things and it was determined um I believe Cal through our our um architect that the it would not be easy to lift that foundation and
um we also received um 33 in inside the house. Yes. and um then add a foot for splash and um we just decided okay since it's a family home and we're hoping to leave this to our kids that to take this off
their plate and go higher. No, I understand entirely. I just wanted to make sure that that was a consideration you went through. Um okay. Uh I don't Does anybody have any questions for anybody about this? I really like the way it looks with the
addition and I love the tabby stucco and that you're keeping that. It's really it's really a nice look on the new house and the old house. We really wanted to keep uh I have just a brief thing that I was going to say. Oh, go ahead. It's brief. Um we the history of the
property is you know we lived here here for 35 years and raised our kids on Pasigril and uh we're only the second owners first ones built it. Um, we're all very attached to the house, its location, and its orientation on the
street. Um, its modest scale and the spaces around it at sunset, how the light changes. I don't have to explain past the grill to any of you. Um, we've celebrated milestones here and memories. Working with our architect, we made
every effort to honor all the things in the new design with a special emphasis on keeping the scale of the house compatible with the street, the neighborhood, and the historic community that we live in. For those reasons, we were determined not to demolish the house, but rather to duplicate it as
closely as possible in a singlestory elevation. We played we paid attention to keeping an entry area on the ground floor and keeping the garage on the alley. I'm an avid watcher of the historic board meetings. So I try to take all of this in when I think
good to know we're hammering it home then. I heard you. We we will keep the trees that survived. Uh we have a mango in the back and you know your mango survived. Little sprouts are coming out. I say I know about four that everyone I'm aware
of died including one I had it's still iffy but we'll if we don't get it we'll replace it um and we'll replace the landscaping we lost and I had just gotten the yard almost where I wanted it um and add more to enhance new spaces to keep a traditional coastal
vibe will keep the shell exterior for sure and trim this um trim the second level with horizontal sighting in a coastal color to pick up colors in that that coina and incorporate pained windows as we have on the first level
and um and more importantly we're just elevating a three-bedroom two bath house and keeping we're going to have to give up a little space in the in the bedrooms but you know interior stair nothing to deal with on the outside in the front.
The only difference is it'll be elevated according to FEMA mandates and hardened so it'll be in a better position to weather the next unprecedented event. We sincerely hope that you um agree with our efforts and approve the design.
Thank you, Miss Turner, very much. Yes. And uh you know I I'll agree too. I think it's a great design. I love the fact that you're doing the two store. Everything you said is is so great, right? We really appreciate that. Um, so this is just forformational
purposes. Go get it. Go do it. We we I don't think anybody has any issues with anything at all. You've done a good job. And uh you know, the city has said you might lose your potentially historic significance. The only way to find out is to come back and see if we you get designated sometime in the future if you
want to do that. But uh, no, it's it's it's really great and we we appreciate it very much and it's a real we love the fact that you love pass girl and we're keeping it the way it's going. So, thank you so much. We appreciate it. We might have to start passing out half plaques.
Yeah. Very good. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Okay. Let's see. discussion item 5B, which is a design review for 10620th Avenue.
And this is one that the board's seen before. This is a new um from the ground up redevelopment. This is 106 20th Avenue. Casey guest for Eliana Guess and Wang Guest Junior Revocable Living Trust. This is also a
house medium residence. It is proposed to replace the storm damage two family residence. So, it is being made it's a single family as as defined by our code. Uh you can see the layout of the property. They are keeping the pool and some of the other spaces at the back of the site. They are eliminating the
existing parking. Um they'll be turning that I believe to green space, but the the applicant is present and can speak to that. And um they are making some frontage improvements as well. They are expanding out the house on the side, but it will comply with the house medium standards. The building is compliant
with the setbacks. They are proposing a two-foot encroachment for the spiral stairs at the front. Uh that will move on to the board of adjustment later this month because this is not a contributing structure. It doesn't go through the design. Well, the the building goes through the design review, but it's not
eligible for some of the waiverss that the historic board is eligible to grant. So, it will move on to the board of adjustment. Uh you can see the front of the structure here. I believe they've done a very good job at preserving the uh design of the structure. Obviously the
windows are similar um different pitch to the roof, but um otherwise I feel that they've done a good job at at preserving that in the reconstruction and it's obviously above um a ground floor parking storage and access level. Here's some more isometrics of the
building. And the floor plans um again just a one one living level over uh over parking. Uh we had just uh just three comments on this one. Um the design preserves the features and massing of the existing residence. It does lack a defined front
porch or stoop. As it currently stands, the code does allow for additional landscaping. This was submitted prior to the adoption of the amendments. Moving forward, a defined portrait stoop will be required based on the standards in the code. Um they do have a front entry
area that functions that way, but it just doesn't meet the uh the dimensional requirements in the code. They are eligible to install landscaping to um to resolve that. The access has changed from the alleyway to the two front connections. That is currently permitted, but it is a significant
change to the block. Um, there is one other property that I'm aware of on that block that does gain access from the avenue, but the the others do primarily gain access from the alleyway. And that is again something under the forthcoming changes that will change when they're on an alleyway. I believe the alleyway here
is 15 ft in width. Um, there was just a slight disparity between the landscaping plan that was published with the packet and what the um architect had shown on the building plans. Um it looked like the space and I'll get back to it.
Um at the north part of the site between the driveways um was a pa pad on the landscaping plan that was shown as a green space. So to meet the green space requirements, at least part of that needs to be um foliage, ground cover, uh
shrubs, and a tree. So I just wanted to point that out. That is something we can address with the applicant at the back end. With that being said, um, as with the prior case, the board can make comments that assist to ensure compatibility of the structure within the district. I did want to point out that this is now a
single family use. It was formerly a two family use. Had they proposed to keep the uh the two family, which we've spoken with the applicant at length about, they would have been limited in square footage. This is obviously a fairly modest um increase in square footage compared to what was on the structure or what was on the property
previously. But because it's a single family, they are able to expand without need for any variances other than the variance for the front spiral stairs that I pointed out before. Uh that's all I have. If you have any questions for me, if not the applicants present. Uh okay, Mr. I just a couple questions.
Again, this is just for future use as well. So could you also can you put the very first slide back that shows that one, right? uh that kind of shows the house designed that on 20th that has parking just on
one side. Is that correct? Street parking. I I I believe it does on the south side of the street. Yes. On the south side. So the south side this house is on. Yes. Okay.
All right. Um, okay. Is the Oh, so do they have to to to do this? Do they have they have to get curb cuts, right? Correct. And do they is that an automatic thing or they have to go through somebody to get that approval? They would go stands right now. Yeah. Right. They would go through the building
permit application process. We would work with our public services and they they are eligible for curb cuts under the current code. So So it's not a matter where they have to get a variance or something like that. That is something that that has to and
again this is for f more for just my knowledge for for future situations in a way. So is that something that because it seems it strikes me it's somewhere in the code. I had read they have to get approval for curb cuts and maybe I'm wrong. I don't know
that they do get approval. It is just an administrative process. we make sure that they meet the width and the you know they'll have to have a certain um offset and expansion joint with the sidewalk and so on but otherwise they they would be eligible for cuts
and so if and I know this isn't relevant to this case but if we pass some of the suggested changes that we have at the that are kind of pending at the moment how does that affect that aspect of
getting curb cuts because if we if we change So if you have an alley, you have to use the alley unless there's extenduating circumstances or something like that. How how is that impacted that part of a request for a curb cut if you know? So in that case moving forward they
would only be eligible for curb cut through a variance. So they would have to provide parking access from the alleyway and then they would go through the variance process to define what curb cut. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that. Okay. Uh any more questions for Mr. Barry? I have a
good point with regard to the parking on one side of that street. They're with their curb cuts. They're eating up two, if not three on street parking spaces on a street that's already got limited parking. And does all the concrete
on the new plan work into the percolation or the pvious surface? So, they're required to meet and I I have spoken with the applicant about the landscaping requirements. we have this 70% maximum impermeable ratio for the lot which is standard across the city.
They they will need to demonstrate that they meet that at time of permitting. So they're not asking for any variances to landscaping or impermeability at this time. Okay. So you again this is justformational just discussion kind of stuff and I'm
just going to say you know I'm kind of torn because I think it's a I think it's a great design. I think the house looks great. I really appreciate the fact that it's two stories and really fits the scale of the neighborhood and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, uh that's why when I asked when Mr. said it was on
the the parking on the southern side, I was concerned, you know, because uh basically north of about I don't know 12th or something like that, there's parking on just one side of the street instead of both sides of the street like it is in South P in the southern end of
Pastor Grillil. So, a lot of houses that are on the side that doesn't have parking get curb cuts and they don't use their alleys. And that seems to be more and more, you know, done. And of course, you've heard be adnauseium and all of us talk about the alleys and what the purpose for them is. And we really think
that that's an aspect that makes it uniquely passive grills because it has alleys and people park in the back and they don't put their garage doors on the front street if they have that opportunity. Again, this is a very beautiful design, but it's going to take away two or three parking spaces in an
area where parking is at a premium. And, you know, the current house now uh has the parking in the back. And so, you know, I I'm I'm talking about this, like I said, I'm kind of torn because it's a beautiful design. And on the
other hand, I really really wish the parking was in the back, you know, and I don't know if that could the plans obviously they can they can build this regardless of what our how we feel about that. Um, but I think, you know, uh it
would be so great if if the parking was back and I know they have a pool back there. It's pretty small. I actually went down the alley today just to kind of check it out, but I think they had areas uh for two parking spaces in the back the way it
was set up. Now, it wasn't in a garage and obviously they're going to knock the house down and it's, you know, they can do whatever they can build whatever they want at that point. But, you know, that would be my comment. Uh, and this isn't a situation where the owner, the
applicant has to defend what they what they're doing. You know, they can if they want, but uh, you know, it would just be so nice if it was in the back and the alley, what which is what, you know, we always feel the alleys are for. I think one nice compromise would be
because there was that parking in the back on the on the left side if you're looking at the house from the front. If there was a drive-thru garage from the front to the back where one car can access from the alley side and one can access from the drive side, then you're only granting one curb cut and the other
side is just green space would be a lot. It is but it's going to require obviously if they wanted to do that new architectural plans, whatever. And and as I said in the beginning, you know, what you've designed is nice and there's we we we can't stop anything. All we can
do is kind of make suggestions. And whether that was thought through already, I don't know. But, uh, you know, as as far as, as you said, it doesn't really I'm trying to think what the other house along there has a curb cut in the front. Um, there's two to the
east of it. The one directly east of it has a curb cut and it's right next to the property that is right next to the alleyway. It also has a curb cut. Right. And that's that's across the street from those one of the houses just got
demolished too, right? Yes. It's a brick house. The one that just came before us with their plans. Yes. And do you remember offh hand whether they had parking in the back or not? They went over they they did all theirs off the alleyway. Okay. All right. Um does anybody want to get
up and speak about this? Hi. How are you? Hi. Please set your name for the record. Yes. Let me get to the podium real quick. Set my stuff down. Um, good afternoon. I want to start by thanking you for your time today.
Um, I'm Casey Guest here to represent my mother, Illiana Guess, as trustee for the property regarding our house at 106 20th Avenue that has been owned by our family for over 20 years. Want to kind of take a little backst step here. I will address
all of your questions. I had answers to everything brought up. I've tried to prepare for that. Um, but let me take a step back. Um, being a historical committee, I thought y'all might appreciate seeing Do I just set it here?
Face up. Face up. Oh, face up. Oh, well. Okay. And y'all aren't going to be able to see it. Uh, we can kind of see it. Um, so this, if you can see it, was the house
actually. Actually, we can can Yes. No. Love the way you're doing it. Right. So, my parents bought this house in 2004 when I was pregnant with my second daughter. And it's a duplex and each
side has 650 square feet. Um, since that time, um, Brandon when he was speaking has a picture of the duplex the way it is. We've done some additions on it. Having to tear the duplex down is
ripping our heart out. We have never cried so hard. And my mom and I spent Oh, my father passed away in 2012. and when he did, I became executive, power of attorney, custodian, trustee,
hence why I'm here. Anyway, um we really did not want to do that. Um we spent months looking into ways that we could keep it. Um we ran into the obvious FEMA 50% financial limitations. I did speak
with someone um on the historic committee to let me know about designating it historic and keeping it, but then we ran into other limitations. Did you know you cannot get a loan for a duplex? That was sort of the defining uh factor
for us. The builder also did let us know the difficulties of time and cost in raising the home. But even then, we were willing to go forward to keep it because it has so many memories of me bringing my children down there and being on pass
and allowing them to run and play and be able to close my eyes as a mom and not worry about them. So, the fact that us, like so many other people, have wound up having to tear down their beloved historic homes is really sad.
But, um, to honor our old duplex, we're going to pull up some of the old hardwood flooring, preserve it, and my daughter, who was, um, I was pregnant with when they bought it, is now 21, an interior design student, and she's going to make me a statement piece out of the
hardware fork. So that that helped my heart a little bit. Um, so as you know, our duplex was destroyed by the hurricanes last fall, Helen and Milton. Our intent is to rebuild
responsibly with a hurricane compliant home 12 feet in the air that is safe, functional, and blends seamlessly into the character of St. Pete Beach. We've been working with a licensed architect and builder since January.
Please know we spent a lot of time thinking about ways that we could honor our old home and Brandon hit the nail on the head um and the photograph he showed with our old duplex um next to the proposed design of the
new home. um keeping the arched windows, the front doors and the arched windows. That that was sort of our guiding principle is we needed for our own hearts and minds to take that piece with us because we have so many wonderful memories there. Um we also cho chose our
design with the light colors, the terracotta roofs, stucco exterior exterior arch doors and windows because it is definitely root rooted in St. repeats tradition of coastal and Mediterranean style. We see this all over the island. Um, and in fact, our
inspiration home that is on Passagil, I slammed on brakes. Thankfully, it was on a side street, took a picture of it, and there's a home bigger and better, three stories, uh, on the beach, but down from the dawn that
looks just like this. And so we took this home to our architect and said, "We want a Mediterranean/coastal style home that goes in with the island." The Don saw with its arches and its terracotta roofs is Mediterranean
along with homes seen in Passboro's historic district. But that said, it is our hope that our home blends seamlessly in with the community. Um, and I wanted to thank you again for listening to our proposed design. We hope it meets up with the
board's expectations and the city's standards. Now, to address some of your concerns, um, I'm going to start with the entryway design to explain how and why we came up with
the front design and the way we did. Um because the property uh the home must now be raised 12 ft in the air for hurricane compliance. This creates big challenges with stair design for our family. It is essential that
this be safe and accessible. I have a 82year-old mother who I adore who, let's face it, we all get older. we are still going to want to get into that beach house along with to be honest with you myself I have had a lifetime of hip
surgeries starting at age two I've had my hip replaced I have more to come so it is essential to our family that we have a home that a wheel that will be wheelchair accessible we can get in and
we can get out in addition to that um the stairs cannot be so steep deep. I have impaired leg strength. Significantly impaired leg strength. So I needed stairs that were not so steep. So stairs rising 12 ft perpendicular to
the front created very steep steps and required encroaching several feet into our setbacks to make it functional. Also not very visually appealing, frankly. We also considered uh stairs stretching horizontally across the front.
This still resulted in steep stairs that were difficult to climb as well as dominated the front facade. When we talked about adding a landing, it got even the stairs got even bigger.
Also, we have limitations that we have to adhere to. For example, moving the home backward into the lot wasn't feasible because the existing pool is only 5 feet behind the house. And that was to code when we built the pool in 2020. The pool had to be 5t away from
the house. We took y'all seriously. The pool is 5T from the house. Um, and then incorporating the stairs within the house footprint reduced what we considered essential living space for wheelchairs. I know. The last time I was
in a wheelchair and a walker, my own home in Atlanta, I could not go to the bathroom because it wasn't big enough for my walker and wheelchair to get through. And I told my mom, something good comes out of something bad. So, our something good is going to be making
this home wheelchair accessible. I also during one of my last surgeries spent the summer convolesing at the beach. Same thing. The duplex, while we loved it, was not accessible for those in wheelchairs and walkers. And so this
home is being designed with that in mind. It's essential for us. So, back to the staircase. It needs to be something that's not steep. It needs to be something that is visually beautiful and something that
does not dominate and and you look at the front of the house and think wall of stairs. It should be beautiful. It should be seamless. When you talk about um a home that you feel welcomed into,
it shouldn't be this visual of stairs going across the front. So, our stairs have a very minimal visual impact. They create a gentle slope that is easier to climb, also does not require a landing. They're compact, they're balanced, they
avoid the wall of stairs look, and they are more consistent with a neighborhood friendly appearance. The cur curb staircase, we believe, maintains a welcoming quality while avoids a bulky design or steep steps that are hard to
climb for people like me. Any questions? Uh, not that. I I mean I was going to say I think I think the stairs in the front are are beautiful and fits in really really well with the house and I agree everything you've said about that. Um, I don't know if everybody else
thinks that, but I mean, I think that's a really good way to kind of minimize the stairs in the front. And I I think our bigger concern or again, this is just, you know, review. We're just giving you our our opinion is is the
alley access aspect. And you have told me something that made me think about that a little bit because But so you don't have an elevator, right? So what we have is lift. Oh, we didn't want an elevator because we're
both a little claustrophobic and because the power goes out at the beach a lot. So, we have a lift that is going to be covered on our back porch. And this is designed for the wheelchairs to get up, groceries to get up,
and all of that. Now, moving to the alleyway access. I would like to Can y'all bring up a picture? Oh, here. Here. This will work. This will work. Okay, this will work. All right. So,
currently the way the house is set up. Did Did I miss something? Oh, okay. No. All right. This is this this next section that I'm going to be presenting to you is on the alleyway driveway access. All right. So, currently our home where this is saw
has the driveway in the back. um which is concrete. So when my parents purchased the house in 2004, apparently the person before him had a concrete business and our entire property is covered in concrete. And it has been our
goal throughout time to get rid of that concrete. So, one of the best ways that we can get rid of concrete and imperous surfaces, increase green space, and frankly just make it more beautiful is to get rid of that concrete
driveway. Um, we carefully we did carefully consider retaining this setup during the design phase. Here's the reason we didn't. One, there's only room for one car back there.
not two. You can't if if you put two, you're somebody's gonna you're gonna scratch cars. We've tried. Or you're gonna scratch the walls as you pull in. Also, extremely difficult maneuvering. The alleyway access is limited because
it's extremely difficult to pull in and extremely difficult to pull out. There is a house directly behind our driveway, which is somebody else's little garage area. Um, and it requires extensive maneuvering and we've almost hit his garage multiple
times, including both my daughters who were learning how to drive. Um, which is the reason why our family usually parks in the front of the house. So, we talk about those two spaces. That was us. we were using them because that back
alleyway is impossible to pull in and pull out of. And um when we used it, frankly, was when we had guests. Also um the alleyway is just it's a very it's a
very tight space. So green space for us is a huge priority. I've told Brandon this before. We want our property to look kind of like a lagoon. We want lots of green space. We want native plants. We want butterflies and
hummingbirds. And we want no concrete. And the pavers that we're going to have are only so that you can walk from one area to the other. So, we want to significantly increase the green space on our property, which is limited if that alleyway driveway remains. Pulling
up the back alleyway concrete driveway reduces imperous surfaces and enhances the property's landscaping and appearance. In addition, there are site conflicts that we have to consider. Keeping the current back alleyway concrete driveway
confl conflicts with our necessary back stair placement for the new build, which requires rear stairs for secondary access. with the pool on the back southeast side. The
stairs cannot go here. So, the new stairs are gonna go right here. And um so we would not be able to access under the house um because the new stairs are going to
be there um which is the problem. And even if we didn't put stairs there, we would then have to add concrete from the driveway right here to be able to pull in under the house. Um, this is contrary
to our goal of increasing green space and reducing imperous surfaces. Here's our design logic. The main area, living area is elevated with required concrete beneath the footprint of the house. So, it seemed to us common sense and
efficient to place the driveway in the front, reducing the need for additional imperous surfaces in the rear. The front of the house sits closer to the street, making it easier to pull in and out of and reduces the need for additional concrete.
Finally, the inspiration home we based our design on is currently in pass that also has this two driveway design that is shortened. Our proposed solution are the short driveways finished with pavers and mondo grass like this beautiful
picture here I found on Pinterest. This is what we're going for so that storm water can drain where the grass is. We and we're going to have pavers. We really don't want concrete. It'll allow the water to filter into the ground,
soften the look of the driveway, blending seamlessly into the landscaping. Finally, if necessary, we will remove pavers. Uh please know the only concrete on the property will be under the footprint of the house itself.
Um so the bottom line is because of the necessary building code requirements of the proposed back steps. Um it it just is not practical to keep that pad of concrete there for for all
those reasons. Any questions? Well, I will say you did an excellent job in presenting your your you certainly thought this out. Just a couple observations and and this is just in general, please. It has nothing to do
with your situation particularly because you've made a lot of good points. Okay? And for example, the last thing you showed showing the driveway there and how you propose to do it. Uh because of course one of my comments would be, well, your driveway is going to be concrete, but it's not. You're going to make it so it's impervious, right?
Exactly. And I don't know how difficult it is. It's often times difficult to be able to grow grass through in those situations. Dwarf Mondo grass. And I got the idea. Got it. Okay, that's good. There's a there's a house on Pass Grill that has it. Another one of those stop the car moments and take pictures of it.
I love it. I told my mom that's what we got to have. Well, I think that's really good. Okay. Um, and so I'm just saying this as a general comment, not about your specific scenario. You know, we talk about the concrete pad and stuff in the back and the pool, but in reality, you're de
demolishing your house and basically starting fresh, right? So, you can almost do anything you want, right? You don't aren't stuck with a concrete plaid or something like that. However, you know, in my opinion, what you've talked about the steps and and all those things, as I said in the very beginning,
I think your design is a beautiful design. Thank you. It it's it's it's only that we have I guess I have to make comments, I guess, about the principle of not using the alleys because we're trying to push that through you. But I understand what you've said. Uh this is just a design
review. You've certainly from in my opinion made some good points. I don't know how other people feel about this, but uh I I I appreciate very much the the thought you put in this. I think it's a a beautiful looking house. Thank you. I believe I don't know if I spoke to you
or maybe your mother right after the storm. It was me. Okay. Was that you? Like live in Georgia or something like that. That was me. We had a hourong conversation here. Yes. I was standing in my backyard looking all the damage myself at the time. Right. Right. So with with uh you know that's
the only comments I have. I don't know if anybody else wants to say anything or not, but I I do appreciate I'd like to add and I I don't you know I was a teacher for a while so I I I get it. You you never want to say well Johnny did it so why can't I? However,
I'd like to add that my lovely nextdoor neighbors who I truly adore have 20th Avenue access. And while I completely understand the welcoming feel that we want people to come to
Pasigril because it's so beautiful and it's so family oriented and isn't it lucky that we bring families to Pasil Island. On the other hand, for an owner to have a place to park is such a relief,
especially when we have company now. We're going to pull all the way under the house and we will keep our cars and our family's cars off the street. So, that will open up some of those spaces, right? And I and I get that and and but the but the flip side to that coin is
you're taking away two parking spaces. Okay. And so, and you have a good point. You know, there's other places on 20th. And all all I can do to respond to that is say that over the years I don't think we paid as much attention to pass a
grill as maybe should have been. Maybe because I hope no one throws rocks at me, but it was a bit of a beach ghetto in the 70s and the 80s. Okay, that's the nature was an old old neighborhood and it really hadn't become historic and that people the charm and uniqueness hadn't really come through like it has
now or the property values, you know. So uh you know we at least myself I think we and as a board we're trying to keep the view out there. We want people to think alley alley alley if we can do it you like I said you have done an
excellent job in presenting your situation and you put a lot of thought into it and even when and if we we get this requirement of using the alley that's not always going to be a hard and fast rule. depends on individual situations. You know,
there's a little bit of a nuance that y'all wouldn't know about unless you lived there. There's a little bit of a nuance between 20th and who's the next street up going into the island, the pe the houses, the neighbors of mine that
share the driveway. The nuance is stay out of the alleyway. Yeah. And I don't know. So, we try to, right? But that that's the nuance. And in fact,
one of my neighbors even said to me, "Y'all really shouldn't be parking back here." Right. Well, I can see that. And part of that problem, just since you're talking about that, is you know, we're volunteers, right? So, we're not employees of the city. And part of the reason we want to make this
alley thing happen is so the city starts taking better care of the alley. I listen, I'm all for putting trash back in the alleyway. No. So, so my point is we're trying to bring the alleys back to what they maybe once were were and what they were in intended for. As I said, I went by your
behind your house tonight and I you know, I had to go through two feet of grass in the alley. I know they're cutting it. I understand. So, I'm I'm just saying, you know, so yeah, yes, you're the nuance has been created and you're right about that and uh and that's something we would like it moving
forward to No, the alleyways add charm. I I love them. Oh, yeah. Um I love them. All right, so let me move forward to the green space or impervis impervious surface ratio. Um and let me put this back up.
So, all right. Please know we are absolutely committed to the city's imperous surface ratio and we are committed to providing as much green space as possible across the property to comply. Here are the steps
we were taking. Removing all concrete on the property, thank goodness, except for what is necessary under the footprint of the home. That includes replacing the existing back concrete driveway with landscaping to reduce those impervious
surfaces, increase screen space, and improve appearance. It's going to be beautiful. We are also maintaining and increasing green space along both sides of the house. Um, what I'm not sure y'all saw in the landscaping plans y'all
received is the fact that there is currently green space 2 to 2 and 1/2 ft all along the sides of the wall. And um hopefully what we're going to do is just put pavers and more green space. We want
it to be so welcoming and so lovely and so natural. only using pavers where necessary. The landscaping plan submitted were does meet the required tree count but is not reflective of the full current amount of green space on
the property. If our 24% green space requirement is still not met, we are absolutely prepared to remove portions of the pavers in the back to increase the pvious area. We are keeping the landscaping that
survived as we have some beautiful plants back there. Um, and we're heartbroken to see some of them passed away. But we're going to keep what survived and our new plans will prior prioritize Florida native plants to
enhance beauty, privacy, and ecological benefits. Our approach will not only enhance our property, but also support storm water absorption, benefiting the island during heavy rainfall, which as we know from last fall is so, so
important. And our house, even though it was 5t up, did get flooded with up to 3 ft of water. Our green space and landscaping will help the home blend seamlessly with the island. So, we're committed to balancing our family's needs with the city's environmental and
aesthetic standards. We hope these steps demonstrate our dedication to compliance and enhancing neighborhood character. Um, and wanted to know if you had any questions regarding green space or anything else that I have spoken on.
I I don't I mean, just so you know, we don't actually get the the only only landscaping we plan we have is this right here. Okay. So, so we don't we don't they don't provide us with all that the the the minutia which is great and I and I appreciate what you're saying and I and I love your level of commitment. I think you'll be a
I just wanted us on page and I certainly um being the historical architectural committee um or just the historical committee want y'all to know how desperately we did try to save that duplex. And I to be honest with you
thought we were going to have to demolish it before I came. We have not for multiple reasons. So, I was out there yesterday and cried again. The new house, yes, it's beautiful, but there is something to be said for the old house
that you could be sandy in, sit down and not worry where you sat, fall out of bed, and wind up on the beach. So, we did try. We really did. And not being able to get alone was sort of the final straw, but Okay. I appreciate this very much.
Anything else? All right. Thank you. I think so. Thank you, Miss Guest. Thank you so much. And oh, and one more thing. I just wanted to say a special call out to Brandon Barry, Kristen Comment, and department for all of y'all's help.
We really appreciate it. Thank you. Yes, they oftenimes don't get enough credit like this should. Yeah, they've been instrumental in getting me on a Thank you. Thank you. Mhm. Okay. Uh, moving on. 5C,
local historic districts. Yeah, we wanted to keep this fairly brief. I think we'll bring back more information for you in the future, but we wanted to talk a little bit about local historic districts, which we have the national version. Um, we also have the power to designate a local version,
which we do not currently have. We of course have our long list of locally designated properties and resources, but um a district is a little bit different in functionality and Lynn has some experience with early historic districts
and getting them established over in St. Petersburg. So, I wanted her to talk a little about the process. They've obviously designated many more districts since um the late 90s, I believe, but um you know, we got to start somewhere. So,
First, good afternoon again, Lin Rosetti. Um, Brandon, did you send them a copy of the thevenue page document? Yeah, we got that. Yeah. Yes. I got that Sunday and started reviewing it while I while we're closing
out that grant. So, I haven't finished reviewing it, but that's, you know, that's for a potential dis historic district. And why have I been relentless in going about seeking grants
to get areas that I think have district potential or just good neighborhoods to get them surveyed and find out what's in there. So, as far as local historic districts, before you actually
declare a local historic district, you need to know what your inventory is. So survey is the first step where you inventory your assets. You know what you've got and try to organize them. You can organize
them in districts because they are in close proximity geographically. They also have um various characteristics that are similar and they have generally some common
type of situation. But really what are the benefits of having a historic district or you know developing a resources? I think actually be when you start to get a lot of
districts in your community, you probably need to develop a historic resources management plan. I know when I was in St. Petersburg, I I ran the first my first historic survey in 1977.
I know I was about five years old, but you know, 55 years old, no. Um, I was pretty old. Well, I wasn't very old then. I was fresh out of college, but I had been involved in historic preservation in college and as a and I got assigned to
oversee the first historic survey that they were doing in St. Pete. So after that, you know, we looked at some other areas as well, but what the city decided to do, they tasked me with writing a an historic resources management plan as
well to take a look at those areas where we had we had identified a bunch of areas that we called um areas of significance. We weren't calling them districts yet. legal said don't don't call them
districts because we were doing a lot of survey work and we were finding clusters of properties that went together and they may be neighborhoods by themselves. It may be a couple of
neighborhoods. Maybe portions of neighborhoods that lent themselves to being historic districts. And so we just um finally decided that we needed to have a plan that would help us
categorize them as maybe locally significant or national register significant. At that time, some of the sections 106 of federal tax breaks were coming on board and folks wanted to know, especially in the commercial
areas. And there are a number of benefits to having um districts and or and also a management plan. that you know you can
develop protection of your historic properties, guidelines for project planning, stakeholder engagement, long-term preservation, and such plans are pretty essential for pursuing
what you want to do with your cultural heritage, how you want to protect it, how you might want to organize it. Doing districts is a way of organizing things. districts actually run not just geographically, not not just a
geographic location, but you could have thematic groupings dis that are called historic districts. They would be something that maybe all houses in, you know, a particular area or community were done by a certain
architect. Things like that. um just many different things that you can kind of look at and say, "Okay, these are all hotels that were really important in the early tourist industry in
out on Pasigril like your hotel Danielle or others up and down the beach. There may be more because you got to remember St. Petersburg Beach used to be called Long Key and it had four municipalities.
had it had Pass Grillil. It had Dons Bazar Place, Belle Vista, and St. Petersburg Beach. Corey is part of St. Petersburg Beach. We've uh been awarded a survey for
certain to do the North Beach area that is going to be uh the funds. We're taking the contract to the city commission on September 22nd. And North Beach is the neighborhood, the
residential neighborhood of the Corey area. The Corey area has a lot of different places, too. You've got, you know, just like Passet Grill, you've got the Corey Main Street, and then you've got other properties. So, when you're
taking a look at preservation and your stakeholder engagement, you've got to take a look at your inventory, what you've got, and what makes sense to protect together. And sometimes one size doesn't fit all. We
aren't going to take the the rules and regulations that we use for design review and pass a grill and apply them probably any place else in St. P beach there may be a necessity to do maybe more generic
ways of dealing with this. I remember um after we ran several surveys in St. Petersburg. I was tasked with preparing what's called a historic resources management plan and just, you know, making coming up with rules and things that could be
done, tools that could be used and how do we get to, you know, the long-term preservation of these areas. And so such these plans really are essential for the preserving of the cultural heritage if
that's what the community wants to do. Um like I say even in one community not one not everything is one size. So we have to start thinking out of the box a little bit probably but
you know we really can the first thing major thing to do is to create a master inventory which is what we're doing with these historic surveys. I don't recall if I told you that we also applied for a survey to do the area
that's between what's on G Boulevard up and down G Boulevard um specifically between where Corans and where Bel Vista and Donses are and to get to capture those areas especially the tourist
areas. That's a grant that I had just applied for. would would also include finishing Bel Vista which had to be done about through probably three surveys because there were over 555
properties in Belle Vista that were of an age and style that we wanted to survey. Let's see. I don't know. Um, I think we might want to begin exploring ways that, you know, as as a as a city
and as a historic board to start thinking about with this master inventory that we're developing, how we might want to begin exploring ways to protect these resources. Certainly, it won't be
using the design guidelines and passive grill because they wouldn't translate. And those are things that we can, you know, develop and we may want to have some discussions about and you guys may have great ideas and staff can brainstorm. And the more we
find out what we've got, the more more we find out what we want to save. For example, I know that with the downtown area of Corey there, I I know that um
he's he's left, but um we we are probably going to be looking at the possibility of certain downtown redevelopment efforts and but downtown redevelopment efforts and historic preservation can still run handinand
together. You don't have to sacrifice one for the other. That's been very successful, I know, in St. Petersburg. I don't know if you guys may have some questions. I'd be glad to try and answer them. Otherwise, I think we want to, you know, kind of keep our minds open and
maybe have some discussions or even a workshop at some point to talk about what we've got, what our historic resources are, what we think that they may be, and how we might want to try to protect them. Any questions?
I have one question about designating a historic district. Do the owners of the properties within that proposed district have a say in whether or not they want to be part of a historic district? And if there's a majority that do not, is the city still move forward or are their
hands tied with that? That depends. First of all, um, right now we're, like I say, this is the inventory stage, but if you want to create a local historic district, and I did two of those in St. Petersburg,
their regulations required a minimum of more than 50% of the property owners had to sign off that they wanted to be in the district. And then it was if they did
it w it went forward and if not it didn't. But the two that I did were Roser Park and Granada Terrace. They were both approved. They both still stand today as local historic districts and they are regulated accordingly. And um
some feathers were ruffled in a couple of other areas that were later done. One was in Allenale and Allen or Allenale Terrace. I'm not sure because I wasn't an employee. I wasn't working there anymore at that time. And also Dri
Driftwood where in Driftwood there was a house that was owned by George Gandandy Gandandy Bridge. Uh George Gandandy had a very significant history in St. Petersburg. He was a very influential person. Well, he had a lovely two-story
white clapboard house in Driftwood. And if any of you have seen the Driftwood neighborhood, it's an amazing neighborhood of very unique vegetation and tree canopy and houses. And much much of it was developed by a guy named
Randall Dodd. And so that neighborhood decided that they wanted to become a local historic district. And the folks who owned the Gandandy residence did not want it
and they wound up house eventually became demolished. But that was because there was a technicality in collecting the signatures and the signoffs and because of that that particular
lawsuit was lost. Similar thing happened with a house in the Allenale Terrace area which was owned by Doc Webb. And if any of you have heard of Web City, probably all of you, then you would know that Web City was pretty significant.
And so was Doc Webb. He had a big old 1920s kind of a colonial vernacular house, twotory, beautiful. And uh it wound up being lost as well because again a mistake was made and it
was about at the same time I think both mistakes well similar maybe maybe uh by however they were doing it at that time I wasn't there but those are some of the pitfalls where you've got to follow the rules exactly or those who
may want to circumvent it or get out of it maybe have a way to do it. I know legal firm can probably talk to that sort of thing, but um I don't know. I think at some point we
may want to come up with maybe even going back to something like a a book that is a is a a architectural structure type book or something where we find out what characterizes these neighborhoods. I can
tell you from the sur work that we've been doing, a lot of it is midentury. Most of it is a lot of it's post World War II and on into the 50s, but there are some areas that have some older
properties as well and we're just finding out what they are. I don't know if you got any questions or anything else. It's just I think we'll be well not this one. I think it will be when we start getting the results of some of these like you
said the inventories then I think we start do exactly what do we have there's see if there's an interest in the communities I know Don Cesar probably does but you know when we get that we'll go do that who knows and then and there are two levels local districtricting and
national register districtricing just for clarification is pastor grill is that I know it's on the But is it we also have a local? Yes. I believe so. Of course we do. Okay.
No, we don't. And that's that's why we wanted to bring this to you because Okay. I wasn't I wasn't sure to member Hawkinsmith's point. Currently, our regulations require that everyone in a local historic district opt in. So, functionally, it's not a whole lot different from the individual
designations that you see every meeting at this point. Um, that's not typical. other jurisdictions. It it it doesn't work typically for designating a whole area because the property owners who want to move forward will move forward with the individual designations, but
typically there's some kind of a referendum process or a communitydriven plan process. I believe St. Pete's gone through both. And um I think we've talked in the past about other regulations and potentially how to move forward on something like this. we would
have to amend our code to get that started. But if that's something that we were to look to move forward on because the local designation or the district designation is what really gives cities the ability to regulate historic districts, not the national register, not the overlay, which is a optin
voluntary process in most cases. Right. So, right. So, that's how you can start protecting them as a as a as a So, we talk about what we do here. We often our favorite term is there a bunch of teeth as far as that goes. And that's
if we wanted more teeth, let's say, then that would be a situation where the community would have to we'd have to do a referendum or something like that to buy in, which I don't know. I I think that the timing of that is certainly uh more significant now, you know, not only
for what's happened after the storm, but I think people who actually live down there recognize it a lot more as well, too. that I I think that's probably a route we'd like to go. So, I don't know what we have to do to get that rolling, you know what I mean?
To or see what our our steps we have to take to see if we want to bring it up to the community to vote on something like that. Is that something you say we have to amend the with I'm sure we'd have to go to the city commission, I assume. Right. Correct. And that's that's probably a logical way to move something like that forward because there is an acknowledgement that this is something
that may become an option in the future. Um, of course we we have a process. It just requires an opt-in from every property owner within the district. So, we've never really had that occur. Um, because we I didn't mean to interrupt you. You say it it's an opt-in from every member. It has to be an opt-in from every member
in the district. So, for example, pass 100% of the homes that have to say they want to do it. Correct. And we we can define the historic district doesn't necessarily need to be 32nd down to first. We could have 8th Avenue or 7th to 9th, however we'd want to define it. But um even in
that case under current regulations it has to be an opt-in from every property owner. Okay. So I think it would be really helpful for us and really important moving forward to have an outline like a timeline of you know when we give public notice to
individual property owners and right now I know you know Corey Avenue merchants are not the same sect as Corey Avenue property owners. So you might come and do a presentation at Cory Avenue Merchants meeting but not capture the
attention of the actual property owners and the property owners are the ones who have to opt in if we were doing yes historic designation for the for the district. So I think kind of a timeline of this is when we do this and then we have to do this before we expend a lot of resources
for the city teamwise and finances wise. um getting so far ahead and then finding out there's not that 100% or majority interest in the property owners that we would have to have in order to move forward, then we there's just a lot of
work that's been done that isn't going to produce what we want as a goal. So to consider that in a timeline and kind of create an outline of what we would need, including a workshop or two in there for information
sessions, I think would be important before we get too far down the road. I know going to the meeting on the 22nd, there's probably going to be some financial commitment on the city level and understanding what happens when that
money is spent and the likelihood of it moving forward to a designation designated district like where Well, I also think I just started thinking about how a lot of these community associations that already meet that are, you know, have nothing to
do with the city or our group or whatever. I mean, that's where you're going to get a real pulse, I think, for what people want to do. I mean, what from what Brandon just said, I suppose you could say, okay, uh, if you wanted to have the third, fourth, and fifth
avenue its own local district, you know, or something like that. That that could be done, I suppose. I mean, I mean, because you if it has to be every single person, you know, if if there's a 100 properties, I'm sure there's going to be one person that's going to say no. if there's eight property. I mean, I don't
know how big or small it has to be, but the starting point, I think, would be at some of these community associations that actually get the people out and they speak to them. So, that's an approach, too. So, it's all good, you know,
food for thought. All right. Anything else on on that? Thank you, Lyn. Appreciate it very much. You're welcome. Thank you. Okay. So, now we're at design, oh, excuse me, 5D design guide, Brook, preferred architectural styles and
promoted new builds. Yeah, I just wanted to keep this brief. Um, thank you. I I have received from two members um photos of your preferred and I it's actually much more expensive than what I asked for. So, I appreciate that. We'll definitely include some of
these homes and those that have been significantly renovated or elevated in place or had additions. Um, I'm not covering those today. I just wanted to if we could pull up the PowerPoint show just a few slides of new builds and um these are flood at least at the
time they were constructed they were under and subject to our flood plane ordinance. Um, so just some homes that we were sent photos of from members that they believe are in line or approaching. Um, the the design regulations is we
would like to see them amended. Um, actually I wanted to point out 1041 19th Avenue. We would not currently allow that design because the bottom is open at more than a 20% um, you know, openness on the ground level. So that if it if that is something that the board would like to to see and we don't have
to cover it today. I just wanted to point that out. Um, that might be something we want to address through our through our overlay amendments. And sorry, isn't the one in the middle? Wasn't that an an addition to a older home? That wasn't a full knockdown rebuild, was it?
I think it was. Because I thought I remember doing the review where they were adding that kind of fourth not it's really not a floor. I think it's more of a a higher ceiling. You're correct. And I think that was added on to an already a structure that
already existed. Whatever. I'm just saying. Yeah. Okay. And just one more slide. So, this is really just a reminder um to members if you could send me when you get some time um photos or just addresses of some of the homes that are new builds or
substantial additions to or renovations of older homes um that you feel meet the intent of the design uh design overlay. I would appreciate that and we'll we'll include those in the design guide book versus the draft and then we'll move that forward to commission once the
board signs off on it. So that's all I have. Okay. Thank you. And then but just kind of on this stuff when we're talking about preferred architectural styles, is that something we can I know we we've talked a little bit. I know you got plenty to do,
Brandon, so don't I'm not, you know, trying to, you know, put more on on your shoulders as far as that goes. But I mean, we had talked in the past about, you know, some of the the styles we want to put in our guideline book. And so I think that's
something from the board's point of view that not only sending him pictures of these new builds, but some of the existing architectural styles that we think should be included in the design guide book, whether it's, you know, Spanish Mediterranean, Craftsman, bungalow, whatever.
Um, and so I think we need ultimately when we have the actual guide book put together, we'll have a a number of photographs that will show those styles. So, when people do new builds, hopefully they'll try to emulate that in some fashion.
So, I would encourage uh I know I just dropped a whole bunch on Brandon the other day. Um and I ran out of colored ink on my printers, but um so can we and I mentioned this to you the other day as far as this design
guide book. I mean, we've been it's something I think we really have to get that moving here quickly because everything's rapidly changing and as much as we can push and, you know, generally we're encouraging people after they've already made plans,
you know, and so if we have the guide book there, when they read the ordinances, they'll already have an idea of what we're looking for. And so I know Tara's working on some of that, but we I think we really got to get something going on that. Uh and and like I said, I'll assist any way we can, but you
know, I have a question about that. Where are we in regard to the storms and being able to make changes that we ran into the year before? Well, I don't know, Brandon, you can speak to that, but I think we kind of thought that this the you mean the the proposed changes that we have, I think
we decided none of them were really affected by the this moratorum legislation or whatever you want to call that. I did I did review the overlay with the attorney's office and they were comfortable with what was in that. We did make the division 40 8th Avenue
design review requirement optional. It's strongly recommended, but it's not required. Um, so that would be the one significant change there. That was to bring us into compliance with Senate Bill 180. So, um, and I did want to mention to the board
with the overlay, we have requirements that refer to the design guide book, but that's really the last piece. I mean, we've obviously for several years been working through the overlay and the 8th Avenue. We're trying to move the guide book forward as quickly as possible, but
there are more zoning related standards in the overlay and the 8th Avenue District amendments that don't necessarily rely on the design guide book or just design in general that we talked about um access to the property today, for example, that's more related
to the zoning side of things and when we grant curb cuts. So, um, if this is something that is going to take a couple more months to put together, but if there's consensus from the board and I can add it on the agenda next month, we can maybe look at separating out the
zoning amendments, carry those forward for final adoption, and then potentially come back and deal with the design guide book and and items like that because we have, you know, we've been in a holding pattern for a few months now and I think there are board priorities that fall more on the zoning side than the
guidebook side. Um, if we I could add this as an item next month. Well, let me let me ask this so I'm I'm clear. We're talking about the the zoning. Is that what we've brought up on the proposed changes already? So, for example,
correct? So, so one of the items addressed today, um, we have the standard in 8th Avenue about the measuring those structures that have a ground floor use, um, from grade instead of from the design flood. Those are more in the zoning side of things. They
affect the design, but they're not pertaining to the design guide book that we're putting together. Gotcha. But, but, but is that an in the zoning thing? Is that more of an interpretation we're talking about at this stage? No, those those would be the actual amendments to the overlay that we've included in those those
ordinances. It would just it would remove any reference to the guide book because that is something that we're currently working through. We've had we went for first reading. We didn't receive any comments from the commission, right? Um but this would be focused solely on moving those zoning amendments forward to second reading and then coming back
and dealing with design. Yeah. I don't uh uh so the the question you kind of have is should we're kind of prioritizing the zoning at the moment and you're asking maybe whether we should
prioritize design or or look at those just and and not do one and then the other kind of I don't so I yeah just just as an option because it it's the last two meetings the board has discussed items that are in the overlay or the eighth Avenue amendments that are
more on the zoning side. We've been talking about the guide book and the need to move that forward and I I will have by the next meeting a a timeline hopefully for that. So, they may still align, but if we're looking a few months out for the guide book and some of the design related regulations that can be
separated out from the zoning, which has already gone through first reading, we're not changing any of the content. We're just moving them forward at different time frames. So you would have the requirement for alleyway access in place within a few months and then we would address the guide book. I got you know I think we want to I think we want
to go ahead the way we've been proceeding but you know I'm just I I think but aren't we ultimately if if the city commission agrees on what we're doing that don't we have aren't we the new ordinance would then refer to a design guide book that didn't exist at
the at that time? It does. But what I was suggesting with that was we would remove the design guide book related regulations out of that and then move forward the other regulations. Not changing anything, just postponing those until we have that guide book prepared
because we need, like you mentioned, we need a guide book in place to adopt the regulations as they're currently written. Right. No, I guess I'm just saying. So, so would we be removing a reference to design guide book from the decision making of the city commission and then
they make a zoning decision and then after that we go to amend the the ordinance to add the guide book and go back in front of the city commission to do that. Correct. It would it would take the language as it's currently proposed and just remove that one section temporarily
while we work through the guide book and then bring that back to as as a separate ordinance and then that would have to go through a first and second reading again. It would. Well, I don't know. It just seems to me
I'd ra I if we could, I'd rather do it all at the same time because those first and all that stuff Well, I guess I guess we we have to we have to go back in front of the commission for a first and second reading when we finish the guide book
anyway, right? No. So, we we've been through first reading. We we'll have the guide book as a supplement, but it it's not something that we're adopting into code. It's a it's a separate document, but the ordinance makes reference to the guide
book as the basis for the design. So, c can we do that or do we have I mean, do we have to have the guide book finished to to have them make the reference to it or I kind of always got the impression that that was something we could fill in later? And maybe I'm I'm wrong. I could see why that I would
be wrong, but you know, Uh, I'll add this as a discussion item next month so we can get in more detail on it. Okay. I mean, my concern is I thought the beautiful thing about the design guide book is it puts people on notice of what we're kind of looking even though we can't force them to do
that. At least there's nothing that exists now. You know, and when we talk about the requirements when they do a technical review, that's just measurements. It's nothing to do with an architectural aesthetic at all. And so, you know, the design guide book at least provides an
architectural aesthetic that people, builders, developers will be aware of because it'll be in the in the code that they read. And so, I I hate to delay that because that's in my opinion the biggest problem we have right now. we have so many new
developments that going to go on. And if we're not giving these people uh the incentive or or understanding what the architectural aesthetic is, we're going to wind up just doing this over and over again where we're com, you know, people are coming in and building whatever they they they want, which they can already,
but they don't even know we're looking for something else. So, I I don't know. I mean, I'm just being I'm just uh frustrated by it, I suppose. And the first reading included reference to the guide book. It did. Yes. So
if we were to remove that reference and first reading has to be read again. Yeah. We're back at zero. I don't know. Will you know what we're just talking about? So let's maybe we can talk about it and coming up and then
and then at the next meeting we can have a a a better path there. But, uh, you know, I was hoping we could, um, get do that sooner rather than later. I mean, I'm in a way I'm I'm I'm more concerned about the design guide book
than I am some of the little zoning requirements. I mean, those are all important because they, in my opinion, cleared up a lot of uh, unmentioned or loopholes that were put in the earlier um, ordinance that I think have been taken advantage of in some fashion. So,
I was trying to close we're trying to close the door on that, but the the design guide book to me, we don't even have one right now. Even though the city has on numerous occasion funded putting them together, but they've never been enacted. And so, I think that's a huge void that we
really have to have that taken care of. So, I don't know what what do you all think about if we make a distinction between the guide book and the zoning changes? I mean, is there Well, I think my concern is during the time that our board has been seated and
working on this, the commission has 100% turned over and then half again, you know, so reintroducing and going back to the board time and time again, you're having to re-educate the new board members and that causes
pause again. And the more we put off and wait, the more we have to wait some more um to re-educate and reintroduce and restate and reread. Would we have the ability to keep things as the first reading has been and then
be able to come up with a skeleton framework of a guide book that could then be a living document? I think that's the intent with the with the design guide book. So I think we can start with something maybe a little bit more bare bones. I know that our consultant is working on putting the,
you know, the guidelines together, which is the more technically complex part of the project. Um, I'll I'll check in with her before the next meeting. And yeah, it doesn't reference guide book volume one dated blah blah blah. It's just very Another question would along the line is
I think we have to define what we mean by the guide book. I mean I I assume what you're thinking and Terara's thinking of is the guide but would also be incorporating all the um specifications all the technical aspects
that that go to building a house where we may be wanting just to say hey look at these pictures yeah coffee table books yeah well no I mean serious you know but but it's part of so when people when a developer or
builder looks at what it is they're supposed you know what the the the code is they're also referred to a visual aspect and and that's something they can show their clients right so I don't other than an architect I mean
if I was a home builder I'm not going to be reading the code and visualizing something in my head I just don't have that capacity but if I'm given something visual to look at I could go oh I like this one better than I like that one and
that's something to build on. And I do think as far as within the guide book, it shouldn't be so specific that it references ordinance 40-7 because then if 40-7 changes, the guide book is then obsolete. So, we want
something that's a little more general, more visual um and not quite. So, as if we look at it, it's a visual guide to help guide guide people to
sort of what we're trying to accomplish here. And I think that's what the intent is. We are keeping it more general. I mean, there are other books that do this well as well, but um we'll have the craftsman style and you know, we'll point out architectural features that are
typically associated with that, but it won't be a specific reference to our code. It'll just say if you're designing in this style, we want it to look similar to this or otherwise be justified by an architect. So right and that that's that's the language that's so key
is we talked about before is just the the basically the onus being like you just said you know to have the architect has to justify why their plans are consistent with that aesthetic you know um so I think we could you know I think we like I said I don't I don't think we
need to get into too much technical stuff on that really uh it's really just it it would in my opinion be like I said the the aesthetic aspect of or the counter counterbalance to what the ordinance is. Does that make sense? It does. All right.
Thank you. Thank you. So, can for the next month's meeting, can we have get some maybe and feel free, you know, I'll help you anyway I can as far as that goes. I'm sure you all would, but if we can u try to have something
maybe put together for next month that we can just kind of look at even if it's stapled and we can rip pages out. Is that possible? We can. Yep. All right. Next month. Okay. So, now I guess we go to 5E, which is
the update on the status of cityowned historical resources. So, it looks like on the 17th, um we will we are closing, I believe, the bids for the shuffleboard court demolition and the restoration of the paycheck. So,
I should have more information for you next meeting on those. Okay. And I'm sure you you said the demolition of something, but we don't we we aren't demolishing anything of in those situations. Right. Right. Right. Okay. All right. Thank you. Is
there And then we're at uh 5F. That was you, I think. Miss. Yes. So, uh, G Beach's Historic Museum is inviting the public. And I'd love to see members of the board there to help with gardening on Monday morning. So, you just show up on Monday morning, um,
with your gloves and your bottle of water and ready to work and sweat a little bit. I would, but that might be a sunshine violation. So, I'm joking because we'll be out. I won't talk to you. Yeah. Okay. But we also be we might get sunburned.
It's okay if we occupy the same space. We just can't talk to each other. No, I know. I'm just trying to be, you know. Okay, that's great. So, Monday at what time? 9:30. All right. Is
Okay. Um 5G the road closures. Yeah. I just wanted to point out from our public services department um on September 13th and November 15th um we
will be closing 9th and 10th Avenue for the day. Uh the first event is for surfers for autism. The second event is tenatively for the V-Dubs Beach Bash. Um that's so November 15th is tenative. September 13th is confirmed. I don't
have dates for this yet. Um but they will be replacing a sub aquous water mane um from South Passer Grillil over to Tiara Verde. I will get information to the board as soon as I have it. Um
there will be quite a few closures and detours including on 9inth AB. It could be as long as three months. I don't I don't have dates or a span of time yet. Um, but I wanted to let you know I've been in contact with Penllis County and just kind of put that on your radar. Um,
I will be I will give you information as soon as I have it. You said something with Terraver. So, it's going to go across. Correct. From 9th Avenue. Okay. Yeah. So, that'll be a probably a multi-month process. I don't have the exact extent of road closures yet, but
when they say close 9inth Avenue, does that mean even where it crosses past a grill or do you I know you may not have enough detail. I don't have enough detail at this point but um I believe what they are proposing is a detour 10th uh to 8th so it will be
closed you know through Pascal. Yeah Pascal. Yeah along those lines you know they they've installed those uh I forget what they're called but those concrete barriers south of Knife. They I don't know if they're finished but they did almost all of them
one day just a couple days ago. So that's been waited for. Hello, Kristen. Hi. What's going on? Um, Miss Lynn had found these nice historic maps of the Corey Avenue area and she wanted to share with you those
and I just wanted to pass them out before you left. Okay. Um, since you did have them pres. Thank you. You are sure of time frame, right? No time frame. No. Do you want us to color these and bring
them back next month? It's just like I do like looking at the old street names and Well, there is a date on here. I mean, that's not what but refers to. Oh, there it is. The bottom 1956. So, this is at least that old.
Uh bottom right. And up here, middle left, it says this area is a multi-million dollar resort development to be opened December 1956. But that's not when the map was done. Yeah, it would have to be done before then. That's what I'm saying. So it's at
least previous to 1956 because it actually it says Gulf of Mexico which that may well it's also got avenues on it which is something that would happen after the 70s. Don't start. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay. Is there anything else that we have here? Right. I seeing there's nothing nothing else, I'm going to adjourn the meeting then. Thank you all. Thank you. Thank you.