Let's all rise for the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the stand with all.
>> All right. Good afternoon everybody. Um, here we are at the February 5th historic preservation board meeting. Uh, madame clerk, can I get a roll call, please? >> Member Hurley >> here. >> Member Young >> here. Vice Chair Hawkinsmith >> here.
>> Member Dashiel >> here. >> Chair Lowry. >> Yes. >> We have a quorum. >> Okay. Next, we have approval of the agenda. Um, anybody have anything they'd like to add to the current agenda? >> Chair Lowry? >> Yes. I do have two action items to add for today.
>> Okay. >> So, item 4 C would be uh light fixtures on Veno Delmare Bridge. >> Okay. >> And item D, 10th Avenue replacement. >> Very good. Okay. Uh I have a couple things to add to a discussion. They're
very very brief, but >> I do as well. >> Okay. You want to go first then? >> All right. I would like to ask about the historic plaques uh and the progress of where those are. Ironically, I had lighting on the bridge. So, you've got that. And then,
um, for just an update from our meeting on November 6th where we had talked about the demolition fees, um, and in regards to consideration of state legislation SB 180, but if there have been any more communication about or updates about the increase of those fees.
>> Okay. So we'll put that as 5A historic P uh plaques 5B update on the demo fees and I guess a sub aspect would be where uh Senate Bill 180 is on that. Okay. And
then we have I want to add uh I can ask I was going to ask about Senate Senate Bill 180 as well. So we can just do that at that point. Um, I would like to have a discussion about just a
brief discussion about the future of some of our meetings. Uh, in Senate Bill 180, of course, as part of that, I think we should start thinking about any potential changes we might want to have that would now be affected by Senate
Bill 180. But when that uh time frame has expired, we'll be able to move on with our feet going forward, not just start up at that time. So, I think we need to start talking about because we all know how it takes years kind of to get things done and we have to wait
anyway. We might as well start talking about future changes if there are some. Um, also I'd like to get an update on the design guide book and where we are as far as
so, so make Senate Bill 180 number six. Well, design guide book update number D. I'm at number C, not D. Six. And then 5E. I think we need to have a discussion in the future, uh, at least next month. I'd
like to get some information on rooftop accessories and how we're interpreting that. And as part of that, because I've got a lot of people have been asking questions, I would like to get more information about the resident that's being built uh almost finished now on I
believe it's 15th and Gulf Way. Uh specifically I want to know about um heights and what items if anything are being you are being um described as being rooftop accessories.
So we'll do make that 5e. So now let's go back. Anybody else have anything else they like to add to the agenda? >> All right then I'll make a motion that we approve the agenda as stated. >> Second. >> Madam clerk. Member Young, >> yes.
>> Vice Chair Hawkinsmith, >> yes. >> Member Dashill, >> yes. >> Member Hurley, >> yes. >> Chair Lowry, >> yes. >> Motion carries. >> Right. Audience comments. Anybody that All I see are employees, so I'm going to say there's no audience comments. So, somebody's on our Zoom call there.
Hi. I don't know who this is. >> That would be the applicant. >> Oh, coming up on next thing. Okay. Okay. So, you don't have any comments we until we get to your action item. Would that be fair to say? Okay, I see a not. All right, now let's move along. Uh, number three, approval
of minutes. Has anybody had an opportunity to look at the minutes of last meeting of January 8th? >> I did approve or I did uh review them and I would make the motion to approve the minutes from the meeting January 8th, 2026.
>> I'll second that. Madam clerk, roll call, please. >> Vice Chair Hawkins Smith, >> yes. >> Member Dashill, >> yes. >> Member Hurley, >> yes. >> Member Young, >> yes. Mr. Lowry. >> Yes. >> Motion carries. >> All right. Let's go to action items. 4 A is a certificate of appropriateness for the exterior maintenance uh case number
26015 for the residents at 1042nd Avenue. Lynn. >> Good afternoon. Um this particular case number is 26015. As you've seen, the property owner is here to speak on her behalf after I'm
through with the present staff presentation. And um the case um this property is located at 104 second Avenue. Come on. There we go. So the applicant's
requesting a certificate of appropriateness to remove storm damage doors. door, one door, replace damaged windows and reside the exterior front wall of the porch, which is located on the um eastern side
of the building. And in fact, that porch is recessed back a little farther from the actual front of the building. The um what they want to do is replace the damaged door, replace the damaged windows, and resside the exterior front
wall of the porch with new Hardy board siding. The wall is, like I said, on the north of what you what was an open porch, north side of the open porch area that was later at one point in time enclosed
the house. was purchased by the current owners in 2019 and the application states that they no longer use this doorway as a primary residence and use the original door on the front porch. In addition,
the existing windows requested to be replaced are not hurricane and wind impact resistant and are not energy efficient either. So, neither the windows nor the doors are original to the house either. And uh the Hardy board
siding is is uh what's being proposed to replace the aluminum siding. Let's see if we can. So, the subject property is the site of a single family home that was constructed in 1935 according to the Florida its Florida master site file
form. And the home has been listed on the city's local historic registry since October of 2006. Its local designation number is 31. The you can see the 2015 Florida master
site file photo. That was when the update of the Pasadril historic um Florida master site file forms were updated. And this is a current photo of the house. And so on the you can see where
the little porch is and that's the only part of the house that's going to be affected by the request. That's a closeup of it. You can see where the doorway was and and you can
see the windows and I know there's probably a grill in front of it, but that's not how it's going to look. Some other pictures of this house. So the following criteria is to be applied by the historic preservation board when
considering variances pursuant to division or section 2815 exterior maintenance and repair work of the code. Uh the first question asked is distinctive external architect architectural features and materials
shall be repaired whenever possible and shall be replaced only when repair is not possible due to severe deterioration or in this case hurricane damage. Um staff noted that the existing door, windows and wall on the north side of
the subject property were hurricane storm damaged and needed to be replaced. Originally, this was an open porch which was enclosed at an at an undetermined time. This porch is pushed back from the front line of the existing house where
there is an existing front door entry which the owner has noted that that's the entry that they use. Now, thereby giving the porch a less prominent frontal appearance. Um the second thing that we have to take a look at and
evaluate is the removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces not that characterize the property and um the character of the structure. The materials that are being removed
though are storm damaged. Wasn't the request original request of the owner to have it done before the damage. so is to fix the damage that has been done by the hurricanes. The proposed new doors and the new door and windows and siding are
compatible with the existing exterior of the historic house. This request does not adversely impact on the architectural integrity of the existing house. It does repair the recent storm damage of the local historic landmark in
a manner that I think staff thinks respects its architectural integrity. And finally, the other criteria deals with distinctive features, finishes, and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a
historic structure and that they should be preserved. But in this case, the proposed repair on this porch reflects the home's architectural period and enhances its historic authenticity. In staff's opinion, staff is recommending staff supports
this request for the certificate of appropriateness to remove the storm damage windows and walls of north side of the porch and replace them with new windows and Hardy board siding which are compatible with this local landmark. The owner should address whether the siding
will be the width of the vinyl it is replacing or similar to the environment siding that adorns the rear of the structure. And after the applicant addresses the proceeding question, staff would be recommending
approval of the proposed certificate of appropriateness. I thank you. Got any questions of me? You can ask now or later. Uh but the property owner is here also to address her, you know, with her proposal. Thank
you. >> Thank you, >> Lyn. Her application states it's 8 and a/4 inch width the siding. >> That's what was given to us in the application. >> So, do you know if that's >> I didn't measure it narrow or wider than
the existing. >> So, I can say from a staff visit. Um, and if we can go back to the pictures. Um, yeah, >> this one or the next one. >> Um, well, this is the rear of the building. And this, um, the fiber cement
board under the porch, that's the the porch walls. Um, that is wider than the vinyl that was in the front. So, there's different sizes. And you have the asbestous siding on the side. So, we're just trying to get a visual of if if this is um an ex like the existing fiber
cement board that's there if that is going to be the same material. >> And there's best siding above that final section also. >> Yes. Yeah. >> And that's not going to be disturbed. >> Um Lyn, can you go back one more slide, please?
>> She's shaking her head. No. >> Can you just go back one slide and then they can see the front because I Yeah. So, you have the the front elevation. Um, and it shows in those um in the front over the existing front porch that they're not going to do any work in that
area. Just the area the recessed area to the side >> and the the damaged area. I believe pretty much just the damaged area. Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. But I don't know if that answered your question. above the door.
Is that that area that you're talking about that's to be removed? >> Right. Okay. >> So, that's not being removed. That uh the asbestous above the door is staying. >> Okay. >> So, you know, just for information purposes, they do make fiber cement siding now that looks like that as siding.
>> Yeah. >> So, you can you can patch it and match it. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh Ms. Is it Fosnes? How you how you pronounce your last name?
Your your sound's not on. >> Okay, >> there you are. You're on now. >> Yeah. >> So, it's Marggo. Is that right? Is your first name? >> Yes, that's right. That's right. >> So, so, uh, obviously you've been listening what we've been talking to today. Uh, what do you would you like to
tell us, if anything? Um, I was going to clarify the the above the door that's being replaced with the window is not as uh espos shingles. That's aluminum siding as well. That whole section of the house had aluminum
siding on it, but it's not being replaced. We're leaving it because it's not damaged. >> Okay. And I know there was a couple questions that you wanted her to answer, Lynn. I don't know if uh that >> Yeah, I think I I got disconnected for a minute, so I may not have heard
everything that you had to say. >> Just in a moment, I we'll we'll put that uh slide up so we can have you address these questions. I I think we kind of know one of the questions was uh whether the sighting will be the width of the vinyl it is
replacing or similar to the I don't know how to pronounce that fiber cement sighting that adorns the rear of the structure >> 8 in hardy board planks. So it's similar to the width of the uh asbestos shingles. Yes.
>> Okay. Okay. >> Does anybody else have any question for the property owner here? Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, Lynn, staff was um making their determination on recommendation based on
what her response was about the width of the siding. Was staff leaning one way or the other? They want it to be the same width or the want >> It doesn't not need to I don't think it needs to be the same width. um it's similar to what's there and you know we're just glad that they're
fixing it you know and and you know it's it's kind of a mish mash of different different materials so on that porch. So I don't think it really matters. It's not going to be that noticeable or
anything and it's not going to affect its historic integrity. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> As far as the >> window that the window that we're using to the replacement window is the same as
the windows that are on the um west side of the house that were replaced in 2021. >> Okay. Very good. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Um, with that, I will make a motion to grant the certificate of appropriateness for exterior maintenance
case number 26015 for 1042nd Avenue. >> I'll second. >> Madam clerk, roll call, please. >> Member Dashill, >> yes. >> Member Hurley, >> yes. >> Member Young, >> yes. >> Vice Chair Hawkinsmith, >> yes. >> Member Chair Lowry,
>> yes. >> Motion carries. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate it. >> You're welcome. Thank you for being historic. Uh, okay. We're going to f 4B, which is the proposed addition of solar panel and beacon to stop signs at 21st
Avenue. Mr. Barry, >> thank you. We have a couple items just to run by this board. Recommendations under resolution 202304. These are for the north and south facing
stop signs at 21st Avenue and Pastor Way. Uh the proposal is to extend the pole uh keep the fluting to the design of the pole itself. Uh they will be installing a solar you know as we
currently have the solar panel at the top. The major addition would be that the pole is taller. Um it would also have the flashing stop beacon instead of the um lights that surround the stop sign currently. So again, the proposal is to keep it at the north and the
southacing stop signs. There's no proposal for the west or east at this time. Uh just hoping to get a recommendation or input from the board on this item per public services. >> I just have a question. I can't really tell in that photograph. is is
the stop sign isn't the same pole that has the street signs on it, is it? >> No. >> Oh, yes. >> Yes, that one is. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, the picture in the middle and the picture on the right, the diagram
doesn't show the street signs on there, right? Correct. >> That's correct. >> I mean, not not a big deal, but I'm just And the the solar panel is to control the light, I suppose. Yes. >> Okay. So, there's not currently a solar panel. I can't see it if there is, but
there is now for the little that goes around the perimeter of the >> Okay. So, that would be replaced by the actual flashing red light. All right. And just as a question, do does staff have any idea whether the
adding some of the changes that we've made lately, especially the speed bumps and stuff like that, that that's made any kind of a difference? I mean, I've kind of heard secondhand that it has, but have you heard anything like that? You know, less, you know, running stop sign tickets or anything like that? I
don't know. >> Haven't heard one way or another. >> Right. >> What prompted the change then? Has it been better or worse? I I think it is concerns about >> Yeah, they've been they've had a problem running those signs for a long time and
so they added the speed bumps which does seem to make a difference and I think they might have removed the tree to make it a little more visible. Um, and it's my understanding only because I say this really for the board, but I think there's still the belief that if
the red flashing light becomes too much of a distraction to neighbors, they can revisit it. even though I don't know if that would be the case. So, um I think we're just kind of trying to do what we can to figure out a way to enforce the stops there and this is just a you know
one more thing that should help. >> I did ask it's it's not an FDOT recommendation obviously this is a local road. This is just something we do think is going to help with the number of um cars that don't stop. >> Correct. So, what's the reason for
having to extend the post higher if there's already a solar panel there on top of the existing post? >> I think it's just to allow for that beacon to be visible with we would be extending up the street signs as well to
my understanding. So, well, this is obviously that we're just doing this for you're presenting us just for our input on anything, correct? >> Yes. >> All right. >> You know, one thing I I just Why don't I and and I don't I just want to say this
because I never really quite understood when this all started being a problem is And maybe you all went through these suggestions. I don't know, but I never heard it. That stop sign is on the other side of the of the sidewalk. It's about six feet away from
the actual road, whereas the stop sign heading south is right next to the road. And I'm just wondering why we didn't think about moving the stop sign six feet closer to the road. Um cuz I know heading north on Pass Girl way that stop sign is
blocked and camouflaged by other signs from the businesses there. And I just don't know why the stop sign wouldn't have been on the west side of the sidewalk instead of the east side of the sidewalk. But so be it. We've already gone this direction. Um
so you know I don't know. Maybe there was some maybe there was some actual reason for it. I don't know. Maybe we're going to get an answer right now. I >> believe what you're the area you're talking about. There's a tree on that
side because you >> see the picture there. It's not >> No, the other you're talking about this side. >> Yes. See how it's it's it's on the west side. Excuse me. It's on the east side of the sidewalk. So, it's like six feet from the from the pavement.
And see, most stop signs are right next to the road. And so as you're heading north on on Pastor Girl way, you you have the bushes. >> Yeah, I see what you're >> darf. You've got the red, white, and boo boo signs. You got things of that nature. And you're looking at a stop
sign that's >> on the you know, I sat on the east side of the sidewalk. And so a lot of times you don't really you might not see it until you get right up on it. I just point that out because it was such a simple thing. I I wondered if anybody even had checked that part out. So we
can make a note because if it can be done and not um somehow prevent the ADA access that was probably >> Yeah, I I don't I mean you can look at that and that's fine. I'm just saying it
just always struck me as that it was strangely located to start with and uh having walked that a million times, I don't see how there's an impediment to moving it, you know, six feet to the west, which is similar to the sign going
south. You know, that's that's in the actual median between the sidewalk and the street. This is, like I said, on the east side of the and I don't know if that has something to do with the approach the Vina bridge or something. I don't know but >> is that the one thing we would want to know is that the preference of this board as a recommendation as we move it
into final design and I just want to point out the um the the most important thing you need to walk away from is you will not have an historic poll. >> Right. >> Okay. So that's the that's the beauty
historic piece of this. It's not the fact that we're putting a light. >> Yes. Okay. >> Okay. >> Yep. And and so and so so in this picture we have here in the middle picture I we don't have on there the the street signs but that would fit I
suppose between the red light and the solar panel. That's where it would go. I think with this if we could just get your comments because again you guys are a whole another set of eyes that we could take that back to public services
you know brainstorm and then come back here as well. >> Well I would say you know this is just my opinion as it goes they've already installed >> are they going to take down the stop
sign that exists now they will. So, it's going to >> they're going to remove that and it's a whole new >> whole >> Okay. >> And this is not a this is not a super inexpensive exercise. Okay. So, when you said, "Oh, if the neighbor doesn't like
the flashing light, we've gone through this before at this stop sign where we actually had a light, you know, red, green, yellow, and the neighbors didn't like that, >> right? >> So, it was pulled down. Um, that's that's even more expensive than this." So, we kind of went with this middle
option to try to resolve some of the community concerns, >> but it's not something we'd like to put up and then three months later pull down. >> And maybe I shouldn't have said that. I just I just know that in meeting somebody said that and it seemed to be to me that seemed to be Yeah. a little
silly because it's like let's just do it, right? You know, so if that's what we're talking about then, you know, I mean, the board obviously can talk about this, but I would think we ought to look at re moving it whatever five or six feet to the west. So, it's a line where most stop signs are and it's more
visible. Uh, and then in that drawing we have in the middle there, I guess, you know, we need to make sure that they do in fact have the street signs, the historic street sign a fixed to that even though it would be okay >> between the very modern non-historic
solar panel and the light >> and and the base is not the historic post. It is not >> and north and south, but the east and west posts are going to stay the historic posts. >> Correct. >> Anybody else? >> And here it is shown like in a
galvanized color. >> I don't know if it's possible that you could get black to kind of camouflage it a little bit if that would help. It says it's going to be >> stated in the item on our sheet that it would be painted black. >> Okay. >> Yeah.
But I would say so we don't have to, you know, do this come back again on this kind of thing. If there's some legitimate reason why it can't be moved, then it, you know, I would say just where it is is okay. You know, uh, and maybe they've already talked about that. As I said, I just didn't never it's just
it's in an odd position. That's all I'm saying. >> I would agree with that. And also just from walking it a gazillion times, I think if it's closer to the street, the visibility is going to be better. I think is, you know, people that are visiting and they're driving, they might see the RWB sign and that might just
kind of get lost in the mix. So, I think that would be of benefit. And also, obviously, having now the light on there hopefully will get people's attention. And I have noticed people slowing down now that there's those little street bumps there. >> Had a few fillings fall out of my teeth
and I'm just No, it's great. Okay. Anything else be on that then? >> No. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. So, now we're talking about action item 5C, which is are the lights on the Vina Bridge.
>> Yes. We just wanted to confirm um public services is ready to move forward on these. The recommendation from the board, I can't believe it's been two and a half years, but uh that's shown in the uh option four there. There were two options. is this kind of slate steel
blue and then there was the same in black. I believe the recommendation from the board was for the blue. I just wanted to confirm because looks like we are moving forward to production for these. >> Yeah. I don't think there's been any any
if I can just go further what you just said. We're just kind of bringing this up again to refresh us all what we did a couple years ago, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. I say go for it. Let's get it done. >> Yeah, I would agree. >> Good. All right. Good. And so, so now
it's going to be they're going to produce those. It's just going to take some time frame to do that. And then so we'll be installing those at some other unnamed time at this point. >> Correct. But they are moving on to production. >> Okay. All right. 4 D 10th Avenue Sidewalk.
Public Services is going to be replacing the sidewalk along the north side of 10th Avenue, creating an uninterrupted conduction, sorry, connection from the Pway sidewalk. Uh they will also be planting Washingtonian palms where the Australian pines were previously at the
northeast corner or sorry northwest corner. Uh we have a few different options. Three of them are available now. One of them would be available in 8 to 10 weeks. They were hoping to get the recommendation from the board on which of these options you feel to be favorable. Uh the current options are to
install either 12in or 18in gray and red multicolored hex pavers similar to what you have on the north side currently in certain areas. We also have a vendor who can supply red only 16inch hex pavers now. And again, this would be a
replacement of the full sidewalk on the north side of 10th Avenue. Um, we do potentially have a different supplier. Um, we don't know cost yet, so it could be a higher cost. Who could install the same 16-inch hex pavers in 8 to 10 weeks
out? Um, those would be the multicolored gray and red. So, not just the red that we have access to currently, but they would be the same size as the ones that are presently on the north side of 10th Avenue. Just hoping to get input from the board. Um, if you are favorable to
one or the other, >> I'm assuming that there are some hex pavers there that are salvageable and reusable. >> Yes. >> Would they be able to be intermixed with the red? >> I believe so. They they plan to reuse the ones that are viable to reuse.
>> What are the what is the standard size of the hex pavers that we primarily have on passenger? >> I believe it's 16 for the authentic hex pavers. Okay. So, why do we have 12 and 18inch ones?
>> Those are just what our supplier has available right now. >> Well, I I know there's a whole stash of these over there at public works that already exist. >> Um that should be the same. If it's 16
in, it should be, you know, what it already is. Um and and and a question I have is you said are they going to do the whole sidewalk on the north side of tent and just between the alley and pass a girl way where they've where they've torn these trees up. I don't know if there's a problem with
the other part of the sidewalk, but maybe there is. >> No, I think to the west as you go past the alley um that has just been recently replaced by the homeowner and anywhere north once you get to Eileen's house and past that. So it would only be that section that they've recently
>> Well, I just wonder for for purely for numbers because it just it it seems to me that I mean I don't know. I mean I I I didn't know. Well, let me go back for for clarity. So, we've been when we've been putting in new sidewalks or replacing
sidewalks, our as of a couple years ago, our suggestion that I think was being followed maybe until just recently was that we wouldn't do flat sidewalks. We would do hex blocks if available.
Although, and if and if they those weren't then we were going to do poured sidewalks with the hex >> stamp >> grid stamp on it. Correct. I think there's been some recent sidewalks poured where they didn't do that and the city whoever this people
were reminded that that was supposed to be hex blocks and or that stamp but if we so now do we have a supplier of hex blocks that we didn't have before. So we don't have to do stamp sidewalks. you feel what I'm understand what I'm saying
is uh because this appears we've got if we have a new I don't know someone if you know the answer let me know I didn't know we had three different size choices the 12 and 18 are inconsistent with the
current hex blocks it sounds like they are I haven't been out there to measure them and do we now have a supplier that can give us individual hex blocks sounds like we do so I'd like to know that because in a perfect world, I'd like I'd like to
use the hex blocks instead of using stamped sidewalks. >> I think for the city project that we're looking to do right now, we do have the availability get the papers. So, we're looking for the recommendation if if if you want the 16, we have red. If you
want would rather wait 8 to 10 weeks, we can mix the two maybe with what we have. But I I don't know the quantity. that may be more of a public services um question that they could answer as far as quantity on hand.
Um, I can commend them that they're they're trying to work with that or but in order to go for further, you know, we'd like to to hear from you what your recommendation would be to proceed. Otherwise, if you would like to do a combo platter that's
8 to 10 weeks out. >> I don't I don't have in my mind what exactly is there right now. Okay. Since it wasn't on the agenda, I didn't get to do my driveby and there it's hex blocks. Old hex blocks. I >> know. Are they white or >> we can we can
>> you know what size they are? >> Well, if they're the ones that have always been around, they are. >> I believe they're >> those are 16. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, these are the the >> and it's not mixed as far as the sizes go. >> The sizes aren't mixed. Historically,
the blocks have always been red and gray. There's no green ones anywhere. So, we've always been red and gray. And so that section which is right in the heart there has old red and gray pavers on it. Some are busted, some have been
pushed up because of the root encroachment and that's why those trees had to be taken down and that area leveled and the blocks replaced. I would I'm pretty confident that a significant amount of those blocks are still salvageable and can be used. And I also
feel that the public works has enough blocks, existing old blocks that they've got stored over there to replace that whatever that is 100 foot shot there or something that they need to do. >> Would you like for us to check with
public services and bring it back to the next meeting >> because then well then they can do they could get going on that potentially right away. We don't have to wait for anything and we don't have to order new things and pay more money or do anything like that. And uh considering that we've been this this sidewalk issue has been
going on for a couple years, I would think the faster we could do it the better. And so I think it all I think the stuff all exists. >> Okay. >> In my belief. And so yes, if you could do that, Kristen, that would be great. Y and and hopefully maybe at the next meeting we'll find out not only did they
have enough, but they've already started or have done it. Um, however, for future use, that's why I was interested in if we have a new supplier that we didn't have before because I think we need to maybe we should bring that up at the next meeting. >> That could be part of what we could have
public services >> sidewalks about how we might want to go about that. That would be great. >> Not a problem. We can do that >> at a prior meeting way back. Can't even imagine how far back. conversation was that the we would try to maintain hex
blocks on pestro way and Gulfway as much as possible but on the side streets because of the limited supply at that time that we were doing mostly stamp concrete on the sides >> right >> side streets so that we could save whatever we salvage for those other areas >> right so that's why it' be important
maybe at the next meeting too if we got a price to see how if they're they're so expensive we might want to stick with that plan if they're not that expensive then because I think that's a great way to look if we can if we can do that >> well we can Keep it on the main main drag. Yes. >> Plus it's more permeable and all that stuff too. >> 8th, 9th, 10th.
>> Yeah. >> In front of the museum. >> Nice to have those hex blocks. >> But a lot got broken and you know it got messed up in the storm. So you know it's going to be kind of hard. We have to do it by block by block I guess. Okay. >> Does that take care of that then you think?
>> Yes. Thank you. >> All righty. So that was fine for D. Uh oh. Now we go kind of discussion items. >> Um >> plaques, >> historic plaques. What do we know about those?
>> So I've reached out to um our plaque supplier um and I have to She's Florida based, but I can't remember the name of it right now. They do have um to just confirm pricing um what the city would need to pay for to get the mold done. Um
prices have increased slightly. So because of that I am altering the um the application form to be sent out and I kind of wanted to do it in um bundles for at least the first go round to get a
reachout letter with the application because we as city staff have to place the orders. Um so we can confirm dates and we can confirm historic designation numbers because we wouldn't want the incorrect plaques uh going out. um and doing a couple batches and then we could
probably switch over to individually. But I just within the past, I would say week and a half received that the new plaques would be $249 each. >> Is it possible um to put the a link to the application on the historic page on
the historic board? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So Kristen, you think that's something we can just talk you can just give us some information next month on that? Is that kind of where we're at? I mean, >> yeah, you can give you a status update on that. >> Yeah.
>> At this point, if someone wanted to order one right now, they could submit an application and $249. >> So, with the payment, it would go directly to um the company itself. City would not
take in the money to pay out. Um so, we would be processing the application, providing the information to the company. Once they have that, then they can reach out to the company individually to pay for it and then they would be probably shipped back here. And I was hoping because I know historic
preservation month is coming up that we maybe we could do something fun if if they take the 6 to8 weeks to get. So it's kind of a brainstorm in my Yes. >> preservation. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
All right. Thank you. All right. So now we're looking to get an update on demo fees if we have anything on that. >> So we're undertaking a citywide fee study. Um a lot of the focus has been on zoning items. We're looking at not just
certificates of appropriateness, but site plans and uh conditional uses and the other applications that we tend to see frequently. We are working on that. Um, it's likely going to be tied more to the justified staff cost and time
involved with that. Um, I don't know if we're looking under the study at a I don't want to call it a punitive fee, but a fee that is higher for the purpose of historic preservation, but we currently charge $50. That's well below the time it takes for advertising and
staff time and all. So, we are looking at those applications uh to increase the fee. We just don't have a total right now. >> Out of curiosity, if someone wanted to have an event out here, like let's say someone says, "I want to get married on the beach." What is the fee for that? Or
do you guys know? >> I can look it up. So there is a base fee and it's based on the attendance. Um it can be as affordable as $50. It can go up to a th000 but that is the base permit review
fee. It does not involve for example if if fire needs to staff the event. There is an hourly charge for that. So it does go up significantly from that depending on the type of event. And I believe part of that fee study under recreation services that they are
looking into the increase on those fees as well. But I would double check with I mean it just seems like if people are coming out here to have their special events and things like that I think that it would be more than justifiable to raise the I mean there's
so much that goes into these permits and research and time and etc. Uh, and there's a lot of money being spent and thrown around and I feel like $50 is kind of ridiculous. And obviously the city could benefit from having more in
more income. >> Yeah. I think I I I thought there was something a couple years ago where they may have increased some of that, but I don't know who who does that go through a city commission or is that like a parks and reccks decision? I mean, how
does that even get started? You know what I mean? If you know >> the the city commission would amend our fee schedule to increase those fees >> schedule, right? >> Because uh Well, right. I I think what Danielle's saying to some degree too is that as we
look at analysis of all that stuff, we want to make sure we're, you know, consistent. I mean, there's, as we know, there's whole businesses, I believe, because I've seen their you know, their equipment in their vans and stuff that just do beach weddings
and uh you know, I don't know how much the fee is, but it's pretty nice to use a public area for not much money depending on what you're charging somebody else. And you know, there are times because we have that. We also have these uh oh shoot, I'm thinking the word there
where they they set up the tents. It's not a wedding, but it's uh you know where they set up the chairs and the tents and all that kind of stuff. >> Oh, the cabanas. >> Yeah, the cabanas. I mean, not not the ones from the Paradise Grill, but individual companies that come out and
set up. And pretty much you can bet that that spot right there in 20 seconds going to have a cabana up there every single day. Uh, so it's almost as if it's, you know, it's been taken over by some of these companies and, you know,
like we talked about the the cabanas or we should talk about the cabanas at the Paradise Grill. I think it's my understanding they aren't supposed to put them up until somebody requests them, but they actually fill them out at the first thing in the morning. So,
anybody that lives between 10th and 11th has no place to put their chair because there's already always empty cabanas there. And I always thought, what happens if you go down there and move one of those cabanas because there's no one there? Does that start a fight of some sort? You know, it just seems like
uh that is something to be addressed with the new lease of Paradise Girl whenever that comes up is if they're really doing it the way they're supposed to be doing it or not. So, I just throw that all out because the the the use of the beach, whether it's from the fees
for weddings or cabanas or whatever, uh I think gets exploited sometimes. I'm just saying that. But so, Danielle, when you're talking about the demo fees, are you talk are you thinking they're they're too little or they're too much at this time or
>> I think it's absurd. I think they're ridiculously too little. You have people that are buying properties for a million, two million, etc., and they're going to spend $50. >> Yeah. It's >> and and that makes me just since we're
talking just for a second because it makes me wonder too, you know, this in the issue we're having with 702 there and I we're talking about that pastor away and I just wonder does the and Brandon, you can probably answer this. I was going to ask you this. Do we have an OB does a city have an obligation
>> to do site reviews for property that somebody doesn't own? >> You know what I mean? Can I can I say I'm an amateur ar uh architect and I'm going to pick out 30 pieces of property on past grill and I'm going to put together 30 designs site reviews and
give them to you because I might want to purchase those properties sometime in in the future and then you all have to spend all the time and effort to go through each and every one of them even though I don't even own it and I can change my mind. >> So if they're acting as an agent for the owner and they've prepared a complete
set of plans so they can't just draw a sketch and turn it in. It has to be a engineer architect prepared plans. They have to get a title survey which is extremely expensive. If they do all that work, yes, we have to review it but not if it's a sketch. So >> I understand and I appreciate that
certainly makes sense. Okay. And that that gives me more information than I had before. But along that line too though, if if you're acting as an agent, usually like on a demolition, a person come in who's the agent and we know what they they want to do. They want to demolish the house. They're just here to
do that. But on some of these site plans, does it cause issues when the agent doesn't speak for the owner? You know what I mean? Or you can't have access to the owner because the agent is
the only person you know and can talk to. I'm talking about future potential f future issues that that we might have gotten around some of these problems that that kind of popped up. Well, typically with site plans, those go for administrative approval absent of
variance. And in that situation, we're just deferring to code or policy. And they have to accept the they're not really conditions. They're just criteria to fulfill with a conditional use perimeter variance. In those cases, typically if
there's anything substantial, the owner would need to get involved because they have to commit to something that's not just typically a course or uh criteria for approval. They might need to commit to making a contribution or giving up land. And I don't think in those situations we would be able to really
hold the agent solely responsible for that. We need to get a commitment. So, >> I guess I'm just trying to figure it just seems to me that I'm I'm concerned that sometimes our staff we might be in situations and maybe we need to change our policies. All I'm saying where we where the staff is doing
a lot of work on potential speculation, you know what I mean? where you're you know and you all have as you I I know you're busy enough and I feel bad that I'm constantly bringing stuff up but seems to me that sometimes uh you know
we're doing a lot of work for things that isn't necessarily going to come go to f come to into fruition >> and in those cases in site plans in particular we're looking at fees but I will say that those are probably much more in line with the actual cost of reviewing those applications I agree
that a certificate of appropriateness is extremely low it and cover the cost of staff review and and time put in. But with site plans, they they do have to pay they do have to pay that fee. So >> that makes me feel better. All right. Good. Thank you. >> I have kind of a extension to that
question. The amount of demolition and reconstruction that's going on in the area currently with people that are coming in to purchase these and they want to do things like move their driveway. uh if it's a corner property, they're moving
it from one side to the other and things along that line. Do they do need to speak to somebody though to be able to be sure that there's not an issue with doing something like that even though it's a new build that what can they do kind of thing.
>> Correct. We especially in Pastor Grill, we always recommend that they reach out to either ourselves or for public service issues to public services to make sure that they can move forward on that. We don't always get them. Sometimes a building permit comes in and they're not aware that they need to get a certificate of appropriateness or go
through design review, but I'd say probably four out of five do do know. >> Okay. >> All right. And I think part of this was talking about uh Senate Bill 180. When can you give me the time frame on that
again? >> So currently the time frame and it was retroactive when it was approved last year. It is to October 27. There is an amending bill in the legislature that would roll back the most restrictive
limitations on that the moratorium restrictions and so on to the end of June of this year. Um they would keep in the future limitations for future states of emergency but they would be much less restrictive than what
we're addressing now. And I don't think any of the work the historic board's undertaken would be adverse to what the amended. >> Right. I think the stuff we've talked about already and had a workshop with the commission and stuff, we've kind of come to the conclusion that that's not a
restrictive aspect that's going to make what we have so far delayed until October of 27. Is that that's my >> That's correct. Yes. >> And I just for the record I concur with what Brandon is saying. He's stating everything as I would state it. Okay. Thank you.
>> Perfect. And and then and it may be even though it's not affecting our proposed change we've been going over uh up to now, it may actually Senate bill may expire, whatever in June of 26 if some new legislation is passed.
So we don't know on that yet. Correct. >> It's right. It's made it through two committees. Um they had all recommended it, but it it does need to pass and be signed. So >> Okay. And so and the reason I asked that kind of stuff is is as I said, so it we're either we're potentially
talking about four months or very possibly uh what 18 months, right? I mean, if it goes all the way to October of 27. And I just want to tell the board people, you know, we've done a lot of stuff to get these changes that we're going to talk about in a minute with the
design guide book and stuff like that, but then there's going to be an area there and I don't think we should take the position that we can't do anything till October of 27. So, let's not talk about anything until then because we can do a lot of work between now and then that once that Senate bill
expires, we'll be that much further along. I just say that just just so we, you know, can talk about future things. And I would just think that as we go into the next few months or whatever, if there's items of that you might want to bring up for items of
discussion that we can talk about, you know, certain potential changes to to certain things uh that we haven't touched on now. So that was my only point on that was to get us all kind of forward thinking on that. So, thank you Brandon and and Chloe on
the information about when this expires. And now I guess I'm going to say that kind of takes us into 5D, which is a update maybe on the design guide book and where we are in our ch our changes we just talked about getting that moved
forward and getting that enacted. So, I believe the board has wrapped up its portion. and we did make those few small corrections from the recommendations last month. Um, our design reviewer is still putting together that guide book. I I will check
in with her to see status, but that's really all we're waiting on. We'll bring that back to the board once it's prepared, get your consent for, and it's it's very similar to the building types in section 20.15, the land development code, where it shows the schematic of
the house and has the other standards that are relevant. we will bring that back to you, get your consent, and it it is still pending final rating. We haven't made any changes to um the content or title that would need to go back. So, um we would move it on
to city commission for final adoption. >> Okay. So, so timewise, we're talking about and I assume you're talking about Tara, right? >> Yes. >> So, Tara's got to add that stuff. And so then once she does that, it comes back to us for one or one more meeting to us
for for absolute final review kind of thing. Is that how you would >> Right. And that would be specifically for the guide book that the code hasn't changed since the last time that you saw it. So we would bring the guide book back. We would get your consent for that and then move it. >> Okay. And so
we don't know if that could be next month or two months from now or three months from now. I mean I I know I know I can't you can't necessarily speak for terror. I just want to get this thing done. We've been farting around for years on it and uh you know I know we
got delayed by the storm but that's been what 15 months ago and we're still where we were. So >> I I will follow up with her in the next couple days and get a status update. >> And also I'm going to make the request I think I said it before but I just want to remind you I know you don't have anything to give us at this point when
when she has done that. Can we get hard copies or that or can that be sent to us so we can review it obviously as soon as possible as opposed to I don't want to come back and have a meeting where we're all kind of looking at it for the first
time and don't have and I want at that meeting I would like to be able to say this is ready to go and then because then we have to get it back in front of the city commission right for what >> they would well they they wouldn't necessarily need to accept the guide book it would be part of the ordinance
and They would they would approve the ordinance on final reading if that's what they choose to do. >> But I'm saying so with them we need to do a final reading with them. >> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. So So we're talking about one more meeting for us at a minimum about it and then another and then a
second meeting with the commission. Corre is that anything else? Any other meetings besides that or could two meetings take care of that? >> I believe two meetings could take care of that. Sorry. And and because the commission meets every two weeks, we could technically not have to wait a month between those
two meetings. >> Correct. >> Possibly. Okay. All right. Thank you for giving me that information. So I would ask Kristen too for for next month, can we instead of bringing it up as a discussion item, can we have included as a discussion item to get a time frame
on that, please? >> And when that does come back to us, what can we expect to see there? Is it going to be You know, we got the introduction obviously. Is it Are we going to have kind of a booklet format with photographs and figures and descriptions
and >> Yes. So, that's um there's a book. It's like no Lynn knows the the one. It's in it's in our office, but um it's effectively a guide book to American houses is the book. It it tends to be a you know, a guide book for um design
reviews. And it would be very similar. would show an example of a craftsman home. It would take into account the details that we tend to see on pass craftsman homes and they would point out those details. It wouldn't be a setback height standard document that's still in
the land development code, but it would really just be a um just a a baseline for those types of structures. And along that, I don't know, I don't want to get in y'all's business as far as that goes, but is is there anything we can do or any individual board
members can do to help move that along or be of assistance? I know you guys got a lot of stuff to do and and and and I'm fine. I just I just really think it's imperative we get this thing moving because we're getting, you know, more and more demolitions and more and more
buildings coming through. And I think hate to think that by the time we get things passed, we've there's been 20 houses that got uh built in the meantime. So, um >> Well, city attorney, is is it okay to send out a an action item document to
the board as long as they don't discuss it in advance? >> They can review it in advance. They can't discuss it in advance. If they review it in advance, um just save your discussions for here. >> Yeah, sure. And I would think that the because I I can't prepare what she's preparing either. Um but what I would
what I would do is send that document out in advance and if we could just get board input on if there are any elements or recommendations in the guide book that you feel are not something that you would support um in a vote if just you know thinking about that for the meeting where we bring it forward for action that would that would be helpful.
>> Just don't reply to all. >> Yes. >> Exactly. >> Blank copy. And we can also make available hard copies if you'd like. That would really pick up. So we can send it to you, you know, electronically as well as we can reach out and get them done.
>> Thank you. >> And and and if and so let's say that that happens and people are reviewing it and they say, "Okay, well, I think the Senate should be changed to this or this should be removed. This should be added." Can can that be sent to staff
prior to a meeting and then staff disperse that to the rest of the board? So at the meeting they can already have looked at that and come to some sort of consensus. >> Nothing's precluding you from communicating with staff um prior to the meeting I wouldn't I wouldn't
disseminate their comments to other members of the board. >> Okay. So >> I think that would make it also difficult if you maybe like something and chair does not like I think it's better that you bring it all at one time and we can discuss it because as a board
you would have to work through that. >> Yes, I I I agree with that. I guess I'm thinking of >> minor things that would be more like you know uh you know whatever >> if it was something where you're asking
for more information from staff um and you know if if you were answering his question you could >> okay all right I get it >> distribute the answer to his question everybody but >> obviously I'm just trying to minimize us having to have two meetings but okay
sounds good all right anybody have anything else on on that the timing of that or any other thing like that? Okay. So, let's move on. I would say the next thing is I want to talk about uh rooftop accessories and I know we have a
definition. I know and and I I really do think we're going to have to have some discussion and maybe city commission will have to have some discussion about how we interpret what rooftop accessories are. So I'm trying to get information as to as of right now how we are interpreting
that and how and some examples uh that go on and I nothing against the house I'm talking about but I've had numerous people say to me that house looks so so high and and I have to agree and you
know the question I think is that fourth floor even though it's recessed test. Is that actually above the maximum height or is part of it above the maximum height or is it all under the maximum height or is it considered rooftop accessory that has a wall and and a
ceiling on it? And I would really like staff to be able to present that to us next month so we know in practicality how the interpretation of rooftop accessories is being done at this point.
Does that make sense to everyone? >> Yes. >> And I and and there might be other houses that you might want to mention and that's fine or other commercial structures and that's fine. I would just use that one in particular because I've
gotten so many people talking about it and uh I would like to be able to answer questions if I could to to the citizens anyway. >> Okay. Anybody else have anything on on that point? I mean, I think also just the def I don't know if there's something currently in definition as far
as like if we have anything in any of our codes or anything like that specifically outlining kind of to your point. >> There is. It's just more of an interpretation of there's a definition of rooftop. Is it called rooftop accessories? Is
that am I saying that right? Or is it rooftop pertinance or what do they say? >> It's it's part of the height definition but it lines out. But you'd like to see that in writing for us to bring back to you next month. >> Yes, please. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But if you go I'm going to say if you go into division two, go on a definition, you'll find that.
>> Well, I think that'll go hand in hand with interpretation, too. >> It does >> because I think it allows us to clarify whether or not the water has been muddied or could be muddied. >> Well, I'm just going to say this at the moment. The problem is it's a bit vague.
It says it says like a chimney like an elevator shaft like mechanical I think for for air conditioning and then it goes on to say I think something like other non-habitable areas
and obviously there's a big distinct some distinction between a chimney not a fireplace but a chimney an elevator shaft not an elevator but an elevator shaft and something non-habitable, which can be defined as a
place you don't sleep. So, there's a pretty vague area there that can be and I think >> or >> what >> like a gazebo on your rooftop. >> Absolutely. You know, it there has to be some sort of a a parameter that we we go forward as we're seeing more and more of
these buildings that people are trying to incorporate their rooftop into it, which I don't have a problem with that as long as it's under the height maximum. You know, one thing is to have a make if you can build four four floors and make the fourth floor a rooftop. That's one
thing as opposed to building four floors and then making a rooftop on top of that. So, uh we're going to get more and more and more of those. And I think we need to really get ahead of that because uh it's it's an issue. I'm pretty confident. So, if we can just get some detail on that for next month, that
would be great. We'll >> do. All right. Anything else from anybody? Get my gamble here. All right, returned. Thank you all.