Let's do the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands. uh when we were requested to supply items for the agenda and I replied within 24 hours and uh then the
uh for whatever I guess the timing is different that you know our agenda came out even before last night's uh city commission meeting and it didn't have anything in it yet. >> So what what would you like to add just >> I would like to add I would like to add the five things that were in that email.
The first one is uh regarding uh action plan for uh Florida law and relating to customary use. >> Okay. >> The second thing is regarding posts and signs
uh that are popping up now uh on the beach beyond the one that was in the news. There's some other big ones now. Okay. Uh the third is discussing revenue uh for the city or some sort of uh uh
revenue or control of some of the things that are going being being put on the beach that is on what I called untax land. Um I would probably relate this discussion to Mr. Twitty's discussion uh yesterday
as well. Um, number four is beach access points being something that was on our goal list for last year and I want to discuss how we can address it this year. And the last one is similar to what I said. I said fencing for dunes, but I would say fencing for dunes and turtles.
And I'll explain when we get to that point. >> For dunes and what? >> Turtles. >> Turtles. Okay. >> Turtle nest. >> I thought you said squirrels. was like, >> "No, >> I don't know why. >> I wasn't sure." >> Well, we can throw that in if you want.
I don't think so. >> Is it for me? >> Any >> There's um construction going on on the um water side of Sarata. I think as a group, we should all be aware of what they're doing. >> Um what's most visible is the
construction. Believe there's a restaurant, pool, and a fire pit area. And past couple days, I've seen some pilings and crossmembers that look like might be a significantly elevated walk over.
>> Was there like a huge pile of sand there like a couple weeks ago? >> There's been a lot >> like huge like dinner. >> I'd be happy to share with everybody. >> Okay, >> great. Do I have a uh motion to agend the
agenda with those items? >> I'll make the motion to uh modify the agenda to include the items that we the six items we just discussed. >> Second. >> Okay. >> Vice Chair Kerszman. >> Yes. >> Member Looney. >> Yes. >> Member Rothenberger. >> Yes. >> Member Thompson.
>> Yes. >> Chair Stevens. Yes. Motion carries. Okay. Can I get uh any comments on the Oh, any audience comments? No. There we go. Uh next uh action item,
approve the minutes from the November 19th meeting. Any comments on the minutes? My my comment is just that there were some things that maybe could have been more specific, but there's nothing problematic that I saw. Okay. >> I have any May I have a motion to
approve the minutes? >> A motion to approve the minutes from the November 19th beach stewardship meeting. >> Second. >> Member Looney. >> Yes. >> Member Rothenberger. >> Yes. >> Member Thompson. >> Yes.
>> Vice Chair Kursman. stations. Uh, beach silent concert. Actually, a future actually a future event is another Sunshine State Outdoor Volleyball Association event February 27th to March 1st and a Mind Travel
Silent concert March 12th. As far as Keep Penellis beautiful cleanup events in October through December, there are nine events, 177 volunteers, 328 volunteer hours, and 424 pounds of trash. Future cleanup events, the first
Saturday of every month, the Pasta Grill Cleanup, and the second Saturday of every month at the Trade Winds. Uh Penllis County Sheriff's ordinance violations for October, November, and December. You can see uh they've gone down significantly. October, there were
22 alcohol on the beach, 10 dogs on the beach, five glass on the beach, seven sleeping on the beach and four dogs off the leash. Compared to December where there was only one alcohol on the beach, six dogs on the beach, nine sleeping on
the beach and two dogs off leash. And then there's a couple of citations, one for a dog on the beach and one for sleeping on the beach. And then I just wanted to report on a couple of uh couple of projects that are ongoing. Uh the Penllis County Posa
Grillril dune planning. Penellis County is coordinating dune planning project along Posa Grillil from 1st Avenue to 7th Avenue. Earthbound will serve as the contractor. Uh there's a staging area will be set up along Gulf Way between 15th and 16th Avenue next to Hurley
Park. Uh dune planking will include sea oats, panic grass, railroad vine, and seashore drop seed. And the species to be planted will be subject to change once the contractor takes a look at the site to see which plants are needed. And then you've probably all aware of the
dune walkover project. Uh um replacement of dune walkovers at 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 51st, and 52nd Avenue. If the second avenue has been completed, I don't know if you've been down there to see that, but I I I think it looks pretty nice. They're working on the others. And that's all I have for my
report. Subject to any questions? >> Any questions? >> The walkovers. Is there any opportunity for us as a group to be involved in the design or provide input as for those? >> Well, not now.
>> Be too far along. Gone. >> Yeah, we're too far along now. But, you know, in future future projects, sure. >> Is that something that we as a group what we would want to do to review what they have. Some walkovers have seating
off the sides. Some have foot washes. Some are steep to climb. You can't get a wheelchair over. Some are not. There's a variety. There's I don't know if there's a standard or not. I'm sure it's, you know, relative to where it's being installed. But since it's in our purview as a
beach, you know, amenity, >> I do know that the Florida Department of Environmental Protection has guidelines on them. >> Um, I don't recall if that includes seats or anything like that, but I do
know that there are some guidelines that >> they have to follow. >> I don't know that we'd want to get in the weeds, >> right? >> But if we could look at it at a at a high level and just see what it includes. Well, I I think what might make sense is to go out and take a look at what's being done now and then we can
take that feedback and the next time we do some sure some replacement or repairs, we can take that into account. >> There there was a comment that came up uh just by a resident about putting treading >> and uh >> that helps. I noticed it. Yeah. >> Yeah. So we're we're taking a look at
that and you know that >> you know I know some of them are steep and some have to have stairs and you know >> so when the walkover is done at the the avenues throughout past grill is there is there a next is there like a part two of one is there part two of two or is
there another set coming at >> this is a separate project and and so you know when next year's budget is set in October there may be I mean now would be a good time to you know take a look and make any comments that you might have for future dune walkovers. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Our budget development will begin in the summer and then we'll get that approved in October before October. >> Any comments? >> Yeah. I'd like I'd like to just say thank you. Um I I think last time was your first meeting and I didn't I didn't
go back and look at my notes uh of the of the comments I made, but you know, looking at uh this I just think it's perfect and I really appreciate it. >> Thank you. Appreciate it. >> Any comments? >> One thing I would mention, uh, does
everyone get access to the weekly Friday weekly city manager update? >> I don't know if it's some mailed to me. I don't know if it's mailed to you. >> Good stuff. >> That has a lot of information that's real time. So, if if you don't get that
asked, I think it's Mark who sends it. >> Yeah. >> Get on that distribution list. Okay. >> It's also on our website. >> And it's also on the website. >> Uh you covered both A and B, correct? >> Yes. >> All right. Let's move to items for
discussion. Um go to the first one, which I think was Florida law. >> Okay. >> And >> thank you. >> Then I I believe u the city attorney can update us on a a week old case or ruling.
>> Yep. Uh there's a recent decision from the first district court of appeal. Um and I think that was sent to you. I sent it to the clerk and hopefully it was distributed along with an article. Um so this is something um that I can prepare a presentation for you for the next
meeting. Um the basic idea I think we talked about uh maybe two meetings ago or three two meetings ago perhaps. Um, as you know, there was a Florida statute um that put the onus on the counties and the cities to sue their own beachfront
property owners to establish customary use through a judicial determination um in the panhandle. U they decided uh to do that and it resulted in um millions of dollars being spent by the
property owners themselves as well as the city who had to hire private law firms to do that. Um that case uh reached a settlement with a number of the property owners. There were some other property owners that um had not
settled. um in that case there was also a um an ordinance um that tried to establish as well. So it's a bit more complicated in terms of um how it actually relates uh to what's
going on in the beach and it is interrelated with um our number two uh add-on which is signs on the beach. Um, so I think um, next meeting I'll bring something forward on customary use doctrine and then I think John has some
materials that he wants to submit or talk about today about signs on the beach where he's found some additional signs. The one that was in the newspaper, uh, that one has been removed. Um, but there are some other signs that John wants to talk about and I would like to take a look at what he's going to present today and then bring
something back um with Brandon uh because we are looking at potential u sign ordinance uh revisions to address signage on the beach. They're kind they're a little bit interrelated. >> Yeah. >> Is um thanks for the update. Don't mind
I have a question. Mhm. >> Um I know that I think it was the UnderTew put the signs up, right? They had a trespassing incident. Are are is the city or you aware of any net new
trespass matters that have come up since then? >> I'm not personally, but I can bring that information back to you at the next meeting, too. >> That'd be helpful. And then one of the things we asked several meetings ago as we were doing
the behavioral and the turtle lighting wildlife lighting, sorry, excuse me, that we wouldn't we didn't do anything that would paint us in a corner that would reg stop us from having a customary use in
the future. did and you I think we asked you to put a a strong eye on that. Do you still contend that what we've what we approved here and what the planning board has approved is okay. We haven't painted ourselves in a corner in terms
of customary use. >> Yeah. No, we're okay and customary use doesn't need any action from the city to become the law. It is already the law. So, it's out there. >> Okay. So, and nothing we've done in our ordinances abregates any rights under customary use doctrine.
>> Are there any active customary use cases on the beach? >> Are there any active cases regarding the customary use >> on the beach right now >> on Treasure Island >> on our beach? >> I don't think so, but I'll check that too.
>> I have some things. So, first off, you know, the issue is how customary us is used. And um you know I've been following this Fort Walton case that you mentioned a district in whatever district I don't remember the one of the courts and you know it was a Backstreet
boy who was the land owner and uh luckily it wasn't a beach boy and uh he you know he he was suing for emotional distress and and so what they have 20 days from that court date to come back
and refile. Uh so we it's not over yet and um you know the one of the key things was just said well you can't ask for money for emotional distress in that kind of a case. Um, but what worries me is that then there was like an a lawyer who who was in one of the videos that's
out who acts like she's representing helping the public and starts talking about you see this proves and solidifies our right to the to the water on the wet sand or the land the sand the rights to the wet sand and what I read from it and
I think that what I think you were saying is it it also has repercussions to the dry sand of course as as well. And that's really what we're concerned with because I think we all know that the wet sand is the sovereign state own land and and customary use is what we talk about in in between. Um the wet
sand is like an area that u people just use as a uh since time and memorial since time and memorial for the particular activity that's happening >> parcel by parcel >> parcel by parcel. So yet I I have a an
ad for instance from you know a long time ago. I didn't look up the data but this is 1960s or 70s for Gulf Winds condos where they where they said um a total of 26 miles of Gulf beaches are yours to enjoy. And you know that's sort
of a message that and I've heard this from many people. I'm not trying to to to do the committee where I do the the jump ahead, but what one thing I do think is important to mention is do the jump ahead, but what one thing I do think is important to mention is that that reading in Fort Walton, there was
an argument made and it actually makes sense that you talked about a survey uh the main high water line is like 19 years because that's complete solar cycle of all the different magnetic for all the different gravitational forces. So you average up 19 years. I don't yet
yet know whether it's a fixed 19 years everywhere or it's a rolling 19 years. Um but you know I agree with what you rolling >> to rolling. Okay. So every year it's adjusted. I looked at satellite photos and realized that a lot of our beach the
MHWL has actually moved in in some places and moved out in other places. Um but like you said um it the normally people just look at the apparent one. Um, but when I go back to the October 2019 city
commission meeting, uh, which I was watching for another reason, um, that's the one where the city attorney at the time was talking about how, you know, it could be argued that the beach has always been public, uh, that the history is there in the museum, which is why I took all the pictures I did in the
museum, uh, and other things like that. But he lamented that we had missed our opportunity in the city to do a a a a full customer use ordinance due to that law that had just come out. So back then they had wisely done one that just
provided the affirmative defense, that ability to refer to customer use when you're defending yourself. But we didn't have that full one like other parts of the of the state had that really gave customer use. And he was upset by that. So, I'm I'm thinking that because of of
all that's happened and, you know, next administration, you know, at the state level or whatever may change it yet again, I'm I'm proposing that it would be a very important time to to move forward on something in writing in our ordinances. It doesn't have to be specific, but something that really strengthens it. And I also was looking
for another thing and came across the August 27th the last meeting in August of 2024 right before the hurricane. And at that city commission meeting they had decided to do a joint meeting with beach stewardship and come up with a plan on
customer reuse. And I remember talking to somebody after that and it was because there were still some cases on the cusp. There was the legislation in Readington all these other things going on. they wanted to see made a lot of sense to wait other than to collect information from people about customer use. So I'm amazed by the number of
people I've run into that say oh I remember when this and I'm like you know I try to get their name or contact information but the idea back then in August of 24 before this little hurricane that happened and everybody's priorities changed um was we were going to try to to really come up with a way
to lock in and now we have that window. So, I really propose that we would, you know, try I'm hoping that's my input is that we would try to move forward on that. Um, that that's my number one com comment. You started covering number two, but I don't know if you want to. Let's finish one.
>> Do you have any I just want to make sure? >> Thank you. >> And I think we have a for the next meeting. So, number one, you'll come back and we can talk about it in more depth. >> That'd be great.
Okay, now we can get a number two. >> Okay, so posted signs and and I'm I mean I could stand there and show you some slides or whatever, but you know there's in our ordinance, in our draft ordinance, we start talking about 4x4 posts, wouldn't post to marked alcohol
zones. I don't really agree with that. But on top of it, it looks like some people may have jumped the gun. So, if you go uh up near the Silver Sands, it's not the Silver Sands, but you start working south in the Silver Sands. Um you'll see these 4x4 posts, not just 4x4
posts, but you know, you can see the hole drilled in it that lines up with the hole drilled into the next one, which to me suggests they're planning to put ropes into. And you know, it's not just a post. It looks like it's been concreted in. Um, and what really upsets
me beyond all of that is that some of them are even on the water side of the of the weed line, which is the natural place where the weeds are pushed, you know, up from the waves. So, I'm like, wow. So, they may have done a survey and
said, well, the 19-y year MHLWL is over here. And stuck a post. But that's not where these are supposed to be. First off, the intent of these posts is for alcohol zones and yet children are in them because it's any
guest to the hotel and it really is a guest. It's really a hotel guest delineation. So my comment is not just about and as I said is the juice worth the squeeze. It's not just about u the signs or the posts themselves but
the intent. And I really wonder if it's so important to have us be excluded from parts of the beach under what I would almost call maybe a pretext of alcohol zone. And why is it so bad that if someone gets their
drink from a bartender who's, you know, responsible person who's handing and selling these drinks? I'm not talking about coolers. Why is it so bad if if a person who's a guest of a hotel takes their drink and walks towards the water past the line? Are we really do we really want to turn our beach into a
bunch of posts and signs under the guise of saying, "Well, this is to control alcohol." It has nothing to do with alcohol. So, let's let's so it's that's a key part of it, too. Um and and and I do have from an earlier meeting when stewardship was covering the sign
ordinances or I'm sorry, the the beach ordinances, there was a lot of stuff in signs about signs about A-frame signs bringing them in at night, all this kind of thing. The issue was that right around that time there was some law changes that had first amendment issues.
So they were just got gunshy and pulled it all out. Now though listening to to attorney Brooks, he's got a good handle and it seems like the law has solidified. We know how to do these and I think a lot of what they had in there is pertinent. I can provide that back to you again if you want to use it as a starting point.
>> Yes, please. Yeah. >> Um so that was it for my comments on number two. >> Any comments? I mean, yeah, I see signs, new signs it seems like, pretty often. So, I'm not a huge fan of signs everywhere, but I understand. I think they're trying to protect themselves
>> based on conversations that have been in the past about things that could happen if alcohol is taken out of their zones and things like that. So, I think they're just trying to protect themselves. I think there needs to be more conversations about, >> like you said, about the alcohol and where it can and can't be. And are signs
everywhere that important? >> John, can you get us the photos of the signs with the addresses on them so that we can do a little rese? >> You can get it to us ahead of time before next meeting so that we have time to go through it. >> So I'll send that to the clerk and yourself.
>> Yep. And to >> Okay. >> To staff and then Brandon probably include Brandon Barry. >> Okay. So that you were going is where I have with my shoulder issue. I haven't been out on the beach lately.
Um, I haven't seen these new posts. I do know that one of the things you mentioned that you were worried about is putting a rope up. That's a rope and post fence. And that requires not only a state permit, but I
would ask the question, wouldn't it also require a city permit to put up a rope and post fence? I do know for the state you have to in the CCCO. So, um I would just make sure of that. So, the issue of
putting a fence up and blocking people from moving >> would require permits to to go through. um if they're just putting up a post. I do know that the state allows a single post sign, but do we allow just a single
post? If it's not a sign, what's you know, I'd ask the city to take a look at that. What's the purpose of it? Now, if it's because we require to mark out, which is more landward,
where cabanas go and alcohol can go, and I I actually can rationalize why that would be there, so they can enforce where um booze is going or alcohol is going, um you shouldn't be out of that. Um I do believe that St. Pete Beach has
a good reputation of being a family-friendly beach and I do agree with the ban on alcohol, but we've made a concession to those resorts that within a marked area they they can do that. So, uh I'd like some more
information. How many new posts are we talking about? Where are they at? And u have the city do some research. >> Let me just add that, you know, I I did show for the camera since the camera is aiming at us what one of these posts looks like. uh with a red uh reflector
on it. But I I doubt that these are consistent with where that quote cabana zone would be. Um and I went a couple Sundays ago with my wife. We just sat down on a towel about five feet inward
from the post. And I mean that that that that beach attendant was was talking to us quicker than flies would find food. Um I mean he was immediately there, you know, shuffling things. And this is like the
Fort Walton thing where they come in with the drill right behind you. Um so I think that they're already, you know, they didn't ask me to leave, but it was like, "Where are you from? Where are you staying?" >> They try and get you a drink. >> No, they weren't even serving drinks yet. So they're he was just the guy, you
know, pulling the chairs out for guests. But there were no chairs out there. It was it was >> before we react, let's have the city, you know, give them the information, have them go take a look, and >> we can go from there. >> Yeah. Went peacefully. But I just >> Good. >> That's number two.
>> Anything else on number two? >> Signs. >> Post and signs. >> Post and signs. >> Okay. Number three. So, this one's revenue and uh I'll just start is I don't know if it's in our beach
stewardship to talk about where to tax and what to tax and all that. We can talk about it, but I would say in my belief I would ask this the city what would be the appropriate committee to talk about what to tax where. Um, I
don't I you guys might disagree with me, but I don't think we're a taxing committee. We have um a committee of staff that's looking at revenue sources um in the event that the legislation passes and that the House bill
um the House committee bill um would increase the homestead exemption by $100,000 for each year for 10 years. So say you had a million-doll house in 10 years you wouldn't be paying advalum taxes to the city for non-essential
services. You still pay for school. So it would have a huge fiscal impact on the city. So, we are having look aheads uh with staff and we're looking at potential revenue sources and this is an interesting issue that I can bring up
later with the staff today um about what revenue are we getting from uh the beach and what what revenue sources are available may not have to be taxes. It might be permits or licensing fees or concession fees that we have at our own
beaches. you know what are the opportunities out there and are we making u full use of them >> I think vice chair hersman has some ideas that could go into that quite nicely >> but let me clarify also for instance
last night I did speak when when our our tax assessor Mr. Twitty for Penelis was presenting and I had some questions but I didn't think and I I for I was rushed. It was on my card that I wasn't representing beach stewardship but I was rep it said that I was representing myself. Um and I didn't think I was
really doing beach business in that discussion. Um, what I'm really trying to get at is yes, so we have some ideas on what could be the the revenue details, but it's really also about just striking the right balance between
commercial and public or residents and and for instance, you know, and I I had it as a slide, uh, you know, some hotel and I didn't get into this aspect, some of the hotels, you know, charge a fee. Okay? and and and typically when they
charge a fee like at the serada that that beach area is usually almost empty because they bring out the chair or enough for what they really think they're going to use that day. However, other hotels like certain parts of the trade winds what they do is you it's
included in your resort fee. Now the resort fee is the money that they pay a person pays but Expedia doesn't get a piece of it because it's not part of the booking. So that's why I was thinking about this other financial aspect, but it also is because is because the guests are allowed to um only
allowed once they've checked in after 2:00 according to their website to reserve chairs for the next day. So if I was a guest there and I was entitled to chairs that I just had to pay for whether I use them or not, you know, I'm going to call and say, "I want a chair
tomorrow." even if I plan on going to play play golf all day. Maybe my plans will change. So you have littered with chairs. And so it's not just for the revenue, it's also to have the hotels or commercial establishments think a little bit about what they're doing filling the
beach. Um and um the other thing is relating to this, you know, we said that we had our ordinance being uh activity oriented because we didn't want to get in the way of Senate Bill 180, but Senate Bill 180 is about development and
where you put your chairs and all these kind of things is activity. So, I still feel that it's not fair even to have an activity ordinance that's so focused on what residents and the public could do except for tiki huts that can that got
in there. Um, but we that we need to also make sure we balance it with the activities that the hotels are doing, the commercial interests. Um, and um and and and uh might it be more efficient? Yeah. So, that that's that's
those are my main comments about that. Okay. Any other comments? Number three. >> Number four, access points. >> You You've been starting off each one. Do you want to start this one off too? >> Okay. Um, so so beach access points.
This is one on our list from last year. It's still vital. When I was outside talking to Mr. Twitty and uh the mayoral candidate was out there and and another gentleman uh the other person who's been here a long time just started going on about the access points. I said, "Well, no, I'm not talking about access points
from a taxation perspective. That's I I literally removed all my access point discussion, but I really want to get with him because he was yet another example saying we used to have this access point and this access point and this access point and they're all been g taken away." And it still gets into that
whole discussion about the the the attorney general saying that, you know, even a street vacate does not vacate the deed rights when when a development was made in certain other properties. We're told this is the area and I and I have those some of those. And and then
there's the stat state statute FS161021 which indicates the public's right to laterally traverse the sandy beaches of the state where such access exists on or after July 1987 or where the public has established an access way through private lands by prescription prescriptive easement or any other leg
illegal means unless a comparative alternate way access way is provided and of course that should be approved by the city commission or somebody. So, it's it's really addressing that and and and and and getting a handle on making sure
we don't lose these these easements that we have. And I I see a couple that are going and and uh so I think it it's getting to be timesensitive. >> That'd be helpful to have a list of addresses, too. >> Sure. Is there a
>> I know you'll supply it, but I don't know if you know are there any easements or prescriptive easements or prescription in going on now to get an easement in the city that you know about? >> Well, if we get the addresses, we'll
check with Brandon and I'll have Brandon check other ones as well. And and and by the way, I I do recognize that there are certain parts of the beach that I just, you know, qualify that I know have gone through the legal processes and have made sure that they
really do have the private the private ownership that they have of areas of the beach. And I know that there's certain access ways that similarly are are controlled, but I'm talking about a lot of other areas that have typically been public. Um,
I was I believe I might have a contact from a city planner from past and I don't remember his name right now. >> I called him. >> He lives up in >> Jacksonville. >> Jacksonville,
but he might be a a resource. I think he he volunteers at at a museum or something that could give us some history on how the city way back when was planned and how access points
>> that would be very helpful because we were actually looking for something someone with that kind of knowledge for one of the cases >> and I was led to believe he might have old maps and it's it was through a conversation with the fire chief that
when I uh met you was I was doing my uh walk around as a beach stewardship. I went and talked to the fire chief on his thoughts of the beach and what was going on and he mentioned that >> I will uh I I'll reach out to see if I can get that contact name and um provide
it to you guys to see if there's some information to be shared there. >> That would be great. Thank you. >> I I actually had that name back from right before the hurricane and I got distracted >> so I spoke to him a couple weeks ago. Um, he said he would send me stuff. I
haven't received it. I've texted him since then just to make sure it wasn't an email issue because he thought he'd also send stuff to the fire chief who had not received it. >> If you send us the contact information, we can reach out from the city too might help. >> Having his name. Okay. And number five, I think it was fences.
>> I could I could I assume you're Yeah. Um, >> you're on a roll. >> Okay, I have a slide and it has a bunch of URLs all about the proper way to create dunes. Um, and it describes the angles you're supposed to use, how
certain waves in the sand are more effective for protecting your your inward land and and how it's more protective of the dune it of the of the shape of the beach itself and a lot of things like that. And I I'll send that
along again to the to the clerk and the people we talked about, but one of the pictures and and and and the the chair may know this better because he's so involved with this. You know, in a lot of places you go at the beach, they have those slatted fences and it's a slat and
then equal, this is according to the the research that says this what you should do is say to protect your dunes, you put a slat, a gap equal size, and another slat. And you do that. And it's not just for marking off the dune, which I think is very important because people don't
I'm seeing in Treasure Island people taking pictures and complaining about people sleeping on what looks like the beach or sitting on beach. And I'm like, well, there's a there's a rope behind of a dune mark. Oh, but that's not the new one. We just planted new stuff. Well, you know, people aren't mind readers,
not dune experts. Um, so marking and clearly delineating where the dunes are is really vital. And the thing about these slatted fences are is something about the physics is that and I don't know maybe we don't have as much wind as they have down in the Carolinas as these other places or the same kind of sand
but the sand supposedly builds up in the fence area naturally just by the slatted fence. So I was wondering why we're not looking at something like that and marking off the dunes with a slatted fence. It doesn't have to be obtrusive. I'm not talking about the height here, but the physics of it could help our
dunes and help protect them. Um, so I'll I'll forward that along and and just to quickly say the turtle nest thing I was grappling with, you know, we're focused so far much on making sure the the the turtles don't see the light
behind them of the hotels. We can't run out there, put little sunglasses on the revisors, but they're only an inch off the ground. And I've I've gotten down an inch, you know, as close as my eye can get. And I'm like, "Oh, I don't see those lights anymore." And then I said, "Well, why don't we put a fence behind
it?" It might be nice and I know there's a lot of regulations on what you can do with, you know, you don't want to be, you know, hurting the turtles, but a partial slatted fence instead of just the post and the rope that marks off
ident identified nests and maybe even a second layer right near it. But I don't want them to get trapped in between. And again, I'm not prescribing the the width of the slats or anything like that, but if there was something behind between the nests and inland that was a little more solid, they still could walk
through it, but it would help prevent them from even seeing the light that's behind them. It still could reflect off the water, which is what we really want. Um, and so I was just throwing out something like that that maybe would be interesting for the turtles, too.
>> Yes, sir. So, I couldn't agree more. Uh, if you recall, I think not last summer, the summer before I actually gave a memo that had a stack of Florida Department of Environmental Protection guidelines. One was for rope and post fence to keep people out of the dunes. Another one was
that for sand fencing, which is what you're referring to, which tells you exactly you got to measure where the wind is coming from and how to how to do that and to be turtle friendly. So there's guidelines and and I believe with that conversation they actually
roped off pass a grow and I would hope that uh you encourage public public services to look at the new dunes on up get that rope and post fence up but as well as use um sand fencing u because
sand fencing mimics what sea oats do. So sea os grow, >> the wind comes, it hits the sea, goes down, builds, builds a dune. It's a artificial sea. So those are tools in the toolbox to help us build more. I think dunes are infrastructure. They are
the seaw wall of the west for us. And the more we can keep the water out, the less flooding we will have. So I couldn't agree more >> for the sea turtles. Um though yes the baby turtles if you put something behind them if they would walk directly to the
water that would be great. It's the mothers that come up and look to wear the nest if there's all that bright light that spooks them. And so just having a piece of pli it's not the only cure >> but that's you have to think about the mother where they lay. So if you have
all these unnatural lights, the mother's not going to come and nest to then have the sea turtle, the baby turtles like that. So it's broader than broader than that. >> But we've had a lot of we've had a lot of crawls in the wrong direction. So I just ran out. >> I had before we did our my building, I
had sea turtles. I had baby turtles in my swimming pool. And once we had that, we literally redid our building. It is we got a gold stamp certified because we didn't we were in it for a year. We didn't realize it and as a building we decided to get sea turtle certified and
turtle glass and we did it all. >> So what confuses the babies is is has a lower threshold than the mothers. The mother went up and laid the laid the eggs but then the turtles got confused. So this idea maybe get off that scenario. >> Yeah. But we have to solve for both. >> Sure. So, I couldn't agree more and I
would ask the city um to look at the the guidelines for open post um and also try and find be it through the uh Penllis County Sea giveaway where we could get a grant to actually plant more sea oats as
well as look at installing um sand fencing to help build up those dunes to keep the waterway. >> Nice. Let me related to that just real quick. Have we ever have we been seeing many turtle nests in the dunes? Because I was reading some studies to understand
how turtles think. And supposedly the the the the nest follow a bell curve between the high water line and the toe of the doom. So they made it seem like they don't really you don't really expect them to nest in the dunes. They use that as a signal to like give up and
either lay or or head back. Is that >> I've seen them all over. I've seen them in I've seen them in the doom. I've seen them on the mean high water line. I've seen them on the edge. U you know, as I walk, we actually, you know, during turtle season, we'll actually
walk and look at them all. There's no I I don't see a distribution, but I'm not the expert. I would say call Bruno and see turtle trackers. >> He he might know more. >> Thank you. any other for fencing.
And I think number six was we're going to talk about construction behind the >> uh what hotel was it? >> So there's several projects going on on the beach. >> Uh the first that jumps out at me
because I walk by it almost every day is the the the work going up the Sarata. Um, there's a excavation for a new pool that's going into the sand between the water and the buildings. Pool there, I think, is still active.
There's a huge walk over between the the buildings and the pool. Um, in addition to to the pool, there's uh plans for a new restaurant and a fire pit. The point of this is there's a lot going on and
there are plans, you know, we've all seen the plans, the 10-year plan for Sarata, trade winds. So, I'm I'm I'm focusing on what Sarata is doing and, you know, we're all visually oriented. I see this what looks to be a big walk over that might be, you
know, a good 15, 20 feet off the grade of the sand. It's significant. And I'm going, you know, what's going on over there? So I walk, they see the signage, they got the fencing up. You could peek in and see, you know, they're making progress. It's nice to see development. And >> so that's one piece of it. The other,
you know, the original, the old swigwam, the quintessential beach bar, >> PCI, >> it was there one day, I walked the next day and it's magically erased. It's gone. >> The PCI, the car PCI. >> Yeah.
>> Thank you. Um and then the other, you know, structural the other buildings, you know, around the old swing, they're they're gone. Um the the the bell weather is still shut
down. Um we know Trade Winds has a long-term plan. I think it'd be good for us as a group to know because if we don't, we're not doing our jobs what's going on with
current and future planning. I'm not talking about, you know, weed level high altitude, you know, just general summary. And maybe if Brian if staff can do some like like a comprehensive highlevel
report as to here are the projects. Here's what the future looks like at a at a very very high level. No no no no detail. Tell us where they are, what they're planning on, what to expect because I know folks come to me and say, "Hey Bill, what's going on front of the
SRA or what's PCI doing?" And I don't know and I need to know. I mean, I can read and educate myself, but I think all of us need to know those things. Um, so I've got the Bellweather, the Surat of the Trade Winds postcard in
about as far as I go on the on my stretch of the beach. There's probably more south of that that I just out of sight, out of mind. So if we want to add or if we think it's a good idea if you know um so that kind of comprehensive
general report >> just kind of like a status update of project the projects and where they are along the beach >> and if there were any requirements in the cup for them to do anything. >> There always is. Yeah, right. What are
the conditions? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay. I think that'd be helpful for me. I know it'd be helpful for me. I think it'd be helpful for us. I I'm tossing that. >> Yeah. I didn't see the huge pile of sand and I was like, where is that going? Because it's significant amount of
>> I I think what you saw >> pulled it out did the pool. >> Yes. >> It was ginormous. >> We had friends in President's Day weekend. So, we were >> vacationing at the Hilton. >> Yeah. >> I'm assuming that is land word of the CCC. >> That's what I was going to ask. I I I
don't know. I coastal construction control line landward so it' be away from the water. I I guess I >> the beach is so deep there. I don't I really don't know. a very deep >> and why there's why I mean if that is in fact going to be a tall walk over
>> I do some of the the conditional use permits they had to rebuild a dune and they might be doing they might put a dune there like that and then walk over >> to to go over there that's what we want
>> and maybe the dune kind of buffers the water from the pool and Yeah, >> I think as a property owner, you would want that. So when the next storm comes, it's going to stop >> stop it.
>> I I think we have to there's something to to be cognizant of. One is um I'd like to ask that we get this information ahead of time, not a project status when it's too late. But if we think that they're getting permits to do something and it's so close to the beach, maybe
that's the time frame to let us know, you know, because I have no idea when Treywood's going to do something for a 20 year plan. And and on that point, and it's a valid point, not to make it terribly complicated, but you know, if the city extends an invitation to the folks at Sorado andor at Tradewinds or
PC and say, "Hey, if you want to come in and do a quick chalk talk and let these guys know, generally speaking, what you guys are doing, we would welcome that. I would welcome that. >> I'd be willing to do a special meeting for that." >> Sure. Absolutely. I mean, it's and then
we then we kind of become the conduit that it's it starts there. I'm not talking about making a big deal out of it, but just like a status update. We know we got this 10-year plan. Yeah. Where the the the trade winds and here's what we're doing. generally here's where there's going to be a pool and here's
that's >> well a matter of fact before he did the sorado or the tradewinds I tried to have a items on our agenda here in beach stewardship to talk about what people and I want to hear from the public too thought was important >> for protecting the beach in light of what was going on with some of the
conditional uses but so I'll I'll wait till you're ready to go around for comments >> and then and closing on that piece of I got a few others here um me if memory serves I believe the trade winds and the Sarata and their, you know, closeness to
each other. I think their general long-term plans include some some activity with potentially maybe a like a a boardwalk kind of thing. And if that's the case,
then, you know, that would be a good starting point for does that how does that work to neighboring properties? what Treasure Island's done with that meandering boardwalk between the beachy area and, you know, the hotel
construction area. To me, it's nice and it gets a lot of use. And I've always thought it'd be great to have that kind of thing here on our beach. It's a huge project. It's going to take coordination, all the beach owners to make that happen. But and this would be,
I think, a good catalyst to to begin talking about that because you've got two of the two of the really big large resorts in the center of the beach next to pretty much next to each other and I think they're all saying kind of the same things in that regard.
So, >> um >> I'll go this way. >> Yeah. Okay. Um you you the question of which side of the CCL is on is important. Um, and and then whether the I mean I guess digging out a pool on your property and then dumping it on the
beach. I think that's a D question. And it reminds me of when the zipline was built at the trade winds and it it went from the property into the sandy beach with a big area of the beach roped off. And I I particularly took offense to the
roped off area and asked the city about it at the time and past administration um in so many ways. And um they said, "Well, the D approved it, so we don't do anything." I said, "Wait, so if someone wants to build a dock, they have to go
to the D, they have to go to the state, they have to go to the county, and they have to go to the city. But if I want to build something on the beach, I only have to get the D to bless it and we're done. So I really think that we need some procedures at the city level at a
minimum that it's not just up to the D to say, well, it's not hurting the beach from a the environmental protection aspect, but there's other aspects involved. And so the city does need to be part of anything that's built on the beach, even though it was quote maybe
temporary because it had claws that dug into the sand, but it didn't move that often. Um, and and me and my neighbors now were talking about doing a zipline across across our little cove to sac because gee, there's no city rules about zip lines. Um, but I don't think that's
really the case. We're just joking. Um, so, um, and I'm I'm I'm very sorry to hear that PCI knocked down so many of their buildings. People have had I feel like this the beach should provide something for everyone. Doesn't have to be the
same people. And um, it's too bad that uh that they've lost something. Um, but I hope that u new places will replace it. And um, that's my comments. >> No comment. I agree with what Bill was talking about as far as getting some
information that and not being in the weeds, but I have people coming up to me, hey, what's going on over there? I really don't know, >> right? >> Don't know anything about it. Uh, while we're on it, before we move on, do you guys know of any other significant projects underway? Like that would be
south of the bell weather. >> Um, like Myiramar's rebuilding, but I haven't seen anything any activities on the beach, per se, >> because we would want that on our >> maybe the maybe the little sheep. >> I haven't really noticed anything from
like dawn. >> Anything down at Pass? Just >> Dan, anything down? >> Doing a doing the ballroom, but that's not that's on the >> the dawn. It's got >> that's going on the other side of the
block end. >> Okay, that's I mean that's a good start. >> Tradewind Sorado PCI. So >> large resort district, right? Um, and I've got a few other things if
that's okay. >> Um, the Paradise Grill at Uppam has been going through um, remodeling, >> which is cool. They got a bright blow your eyes out yellow
exterior walls. It looks great. Um, it's underway. I know we don't meet but every three months so they'll probably be done by the time we get back together but um that kind of struck me as a surprise.
I did you all know that that was going to happen? Okay. Did I? So if if there's something that the city's going to be doing because I believe that's city property >> city owned. I I think it'd probably been
helpful for us to have been aware of that um if not for any other reason than just sharing information with interested residents. >> Um and then in the same regard, I think it was about three years ago, it was under Mayor Johnson's administration
that a project was on the books for uh reworking that whole plaza and the parking configuration. Dam, do you all did you all that was before my time here, but did you all have any sight into that? Um,
>> well, I actually have spoken to the city commission um and went to the parking workshop and I I specifically for that area made a recommendation that there's a big area that doesn't have parking and that that could be an extension of the residentonly parking area that's in that area.
>> Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, and that gets to be a big thing really fast, but I would like to know where that project stands, if it's still going to be done. Brian, do you have any knowledge of that at all? >> I I don't I can
>> And there's nothing that's that's timesensitive about that, but if we can put that on the agenda with everyone's agreement for our next meeting, could we get an update on that? because I remember seeing some plans and I mean the parking I think was going to potentially double.
>> That's great. >> And the problem was I believe the CCCL and ownership of the the the dune area between the walkway and the the dune and the water and the city or the county
might have. I mean there was there were there was a lot of >> So they were paving new areas that hadn't been paved before. Well, the the plan that I looked at had part of the parking encroaching and set over what is now grassy sea area.
>> So, >> that's a lighting issue, >> which which would be problematic. I'd have to look. I have a I went to the state website and downloaded their GPS data and overlaid
it on Google Maps to show where the CCL is. >> Good for you. >> So, you can actually scroll and see where the CCCL is and I just don't remember where it is there, >> but it's pretty close >> as you know. You know, the lot we have to renourish that beach that there's
there's not a lot there. Yeah. of >> of non CCCL. >> It was back in 0506 that the water was maybe >> six feet off the end of the walk over in front of the grill. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's >> Yeah. I mean that's if you can picture that. >> What's the building just north of that that has here's the Here's the grill. >> The Caprice. >> The Caprice. Right. I think the CC >> the blue metal roof.
>> Yeah, the CCCL goes through that property. >> Oh, is that right? >> I don't think there's much. Okay. >> But we can Brian can look to see if the >> Yeah, if we could kind of research that and just >> place some eyes on it and know what's if if it's not going to happen then, you
know, but if it's still kind of >> perpetually about it. So, >> yeah, I I I don't know. And and that reminds me I I have in my in my big 500 slide set of or beach related things I have uh uh sections in
the map uh from the D set I think that shows the CCCL and it's satellite photo and I I I can't share it with you unless I share it with you here but it you know of course it covers the Sarata and all those other places. So maybe in in the packet that I send um I'll include the
the uh the CCL maps >> and and to help you might and Al Johnson I I can we can meet after I can give you his number. He's a treasure trove trove of information. Excuse me. And he's more than willing to help out and say oh yeah
and probably about half an hour you probably save yourself two days worth of work. So, um, and then finally, uh, once again, we have spring break right around the corner. So, I thought
since we're not going to be meeting it again until um, when I don't know, March, June, >> May 20th, it says >> May. So, we'll be looking in the rearview mirror at spring break next time we're here. Is there anything that
we should think about, discuss before it hits us. >> I I'd like to say >> I just wanted to toss that out. >> I'd like to say that I I didn't think it was very welcoming when we put up all
these signs right uh on our bridges and it wasn't just for spring break about zero tolerance and so forth. It caught a lot of people by surprise. I mean, we obviously, you know, want to make sure people are are controlled. Um, and and
many many communities even have special rules for those two months. They get more limiting about alcohol. They have special special rules just for those two months because as the people up in Walton Beach and those old areas, the panhandle tighten down, the same people
are looking to where to go next. And you know, we we enjoy tourism, but we want to make sure that we have some of the similar controls at others just to keep so we don't become attracted by our lack of >> I should know this, but I don't. Are there are there nesting seasons that
that overlap with spring break? >> The birds, they start I mean, I think they've already got it roped off down in Fort Doddto for the nesting birds. I don't know if that's all the time, but >> um >> they they do they rope them. which we
could do with our skill. >> Ryan, have have you seen anything come across your desk in regards to preparations for spring break? >> I have not. >> Okay. >> The year before they they talked about enhanced patrolling
of that if you could look into that. parking, nesting, enforcement, general awareness. It might be kind of a lackluster spring break with, you know, the the places to stay on the beach are not what they were
two years ago. >> So, we don't know. >> I think the PCI actually was is taking reservations for the time frame. They don't look that ready, but hopefully they will be. Um, that's my recollection. It may have changed by now. >> That's the center of the universe for
spring break on CP. >> Not anymore. >> That's all I have. >> Okay. Any other comments? >> I'm good. All right. >> Everyone's okay. We are journed. >> Thank you.