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Mhm. >> Mhm. >> Good afternoon everybody. I'm calling to order our meeting of the local planning agency for May 14th, 2026. Welcome everybody. Welcome. Uh Suzette, the clerk, if you would

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call the roll, please. Chair Peterson. Vice Chair Olette. Here. Board member Selmoff. I'm sorry. Board member Grosso. Here. Board member Palmieri. Here. Board member Sherer. And board member Vogel. Here.

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Thank you. If you would all stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance, please. Thank you. Now, if I could get uh somebody to do a motion to approve the agenda. I'll move to approve the agenda. Second. Thank you.

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And is there any comment on the motion? Uh all in favor? Say Say that loud. I. Okay, thank you very much. And um we will go on to request a motion to approve the minutes, please.

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I'll move to approve the minutes. Second. All right. Sounds good. And I don't think I need to get All in favor? I know. All in favor, please. I. Yes. Thank you very much. All right.

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Um let's see. Do we have any comments from the public today? I have none, Chair. None. Seeing none, we will move on to comments by board members. Are there any comments by

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the board members today? All right. Hearing none, we will move on to the action items. Oh, let's see here. Resolutions. Um are you going to be reading the resolutions? >> I I can do that. I would appreciate

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that. Thank you. >> Okay, the title is backyard chickens in certain residential zoning districts. And it's ordinance number 2552-2026 an ordinance of the City Commission of the City of Stuart, Florida, amending the city's land development code chapter

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2, zoning districts, uses allowed, density, intensity, section 2.06.00, supplemental use standards to add a new section 2.06.24, backyard chickens in certain residential

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zoning districts, and to amend the city's code of ordinances chapter 8, animals, article 1, in general, section 8.2, livestock prohibited in in the Stuart's code of ordinances by removing certain provisions relating

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related to allow backyard chickens in certain residential zoning districts, providing for the repeal of prior ordinances and resolutions, providing for codification, providing for severability, providing for an effective date, and for other purposes.

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Thank you. And I um Do I hear the presentation now or do I do the motion? You can ask for um uh the development director to go ahead and give a presentation on the ordinance.

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>> Give us a presentation. Yes, thank you. Uh good evening board members and and uh chair. Uh for the record, my name is Jody Kugler. I'm the development director with the City of Stuart. Uh this item comes from You uh based on this on February 23rd, 2026, the City

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Commission directed staff to prepare the necessary ordinance to allow backyard chickens within certain residential districts. The City Commission recognizes a growing trend towards subs- substan- sustainable living practices, including the desire

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to incorporate fresher, locally sourced products into local into daily diets. Additionally, there is an increasing interest in providing residents with opportunities to engage in small-scale backyard food production. Allowing a limited number of chickens on

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residential properties supports these objectives by enabling property owners to produce eggs for personal consumption. The proposed amendments would allow the keeping of up to four chickens as an accessory use on an occupied detached

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single-family and duplex properties within the R1A, R1, R2, urban neighborhood single-family detached zoning districts within the East Stewart neighborhood. And this would be subject to the terms

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and conditions outlined in the attached draft ordinance. This ordinance was presented to the Community Redevelopment Board last week, and they did vote um to move the uh item forward with a couple conditions, and I can go over those once uh if you would like to

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go through your ordinance. Um And I'm just going to quickly run through those, or if you would like me to wait and just hear your comments, and I can provide those comments. I would like to hear comments. Obviously, I don't think we have any comments from the public, but can I get comments from

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the board members? I wanted to ask about um the necessity of getting a permit versus like just having it be allowed, and then if, you know, there's a code violation, like somebody calls kind of a thing.

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So, we did model off of other jurisdictions, and I know that a lot of jurisdictions do require a permit just because of uh cleanliness and nuisance uh require abatements. Uh we do want to verify on a yearly basis to make sure that the chicken coops are maintained, and also

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being um maintained in the yard, and then they're in good condition. So, the idea is the city would like inspect yearly whoever has a permit, and make sure they're doing it correctly. That That is correct. And it's just >> city's option, though, not at

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>> Yeah, at the city's option. So, if we get a complaint and we don't have a permit, then they would be required to get a permit. It's just make sure that the uh chickens are maintained and the the the property is maintained and also meets the requirements of it is an occupied uh unit or it's not a vacant

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land. Okay. Well, So, are we going through You're going through the whole thing or what Is it just understood that we read it and that's Yes, I can >> You're not going to read through the whole thing. So, um thank you. So, in there, I just wanted to point out

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a couple things that um you're only allowed up to four hens. There will be no roosters allowed. So, as we know, roosters can be noisy, so that was all That's pretty much standard with other jurisdictions as well. Um at the Community Redevelopment Board, they did um

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make a suggestion or made a recommendation to approve the ordinance with a few conditions to consider. Um on page four of your ordinance, they have considered where the location requirements for the chicken coops and enclosure, which is um

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under section C, they made some recommendations to consider instead of a fence that you could have a hedge instead of um having a fence. Uh also, they were uh made a recommendation to make the chicken coops uh larger at 7 ft tall

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for taller people. And then if you want to put a fence to to have a maximum of 5 ft. And that was some of the recommendations that the board had made. I I was just wondering, the enclosures, uh it says shall be so constructed and maintained as to prevent rodents and

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other pests from being harbored underneath within or within the walls. But I am a I'm a concerned about them being strong enough to resist coyotes cuz they're everywhere now. And they love chickens. Do you think this will be strong enough to get the people to keep the chicken

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coops in, you know, coyote resistant? Um unfortunately, I cannot answer that. I mean, that is something that you always have to be aware of when you have backyard chickens. Um I do know there's some cases where they didn't successfully survive, but um

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you know, there is other ways where some of the coops instead of a you can make those coops a little bit stronger or you can get those um coops that I know you can order them online where they are coyote proof. Um I have seen them before, too. Um but I it's it's really going to be the

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owner's responsibility to make sure that they maintain their coops. Okay. What is the permit process on the coop itself? Is it treated like a structure? Do they have to do full They don't have to pull a building permit or anything like that. No, it's just going to show you

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>> a movable structure, is that why? >> Yes. Yeah, it will be a movable structure. It will um it will just show that you'll show the aspects of the coop. Typically, you'll probably purchase them. If you build them, then you're just going to show the height, the width, and the material that you're going to use, and then just show it on

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your land where you're going to set it back. >> it but similar to a prefab shed then? Is there any tie down requirements on it so it's not blowing into the neighbor's house during a hurricane? Um we don't have that, but if that's something that you would like to recommend, um we can certainly do that. I

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like a shed, you would do the tie downs. We could actually add that language. It's really just uh you can purchase those at Home Depot. The the tie downs. Right. Um Yeah, so that's my one concern. My other concern is the, you know, the setbacks

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um to have it 5 ft off the property lines, but then 25 ft from any residential structure. I mean, I guess my first question is, you know, what counts as residential structure in that aspect of it? Is a I assume pool doesn't qualify as that,

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but a would a like free standing shed count as a residential structure? So, I I see where you're coming from. Um, I think that um, if you say the principal the principal structure, that would define that that would be the house. So. It actually does say

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that they shall be uh you know built to keep away predators and weather. So, I think that might Relax. in include the coyotes. But so yeah, I don't know. I guess one of my

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issues with it is the setbacks of it. If 5 ft off your property line is can make it a you know, nuisance to your neighbor. If it were to be a further setback off of the property line, then you can possibly eliminate the double setback of 5 ft and

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then 25 ft from a structure. Cuz for example, let's say I went to the trouble putting this in and then my neighbor didn't like it, so then they just build a structure 5 ft off their property line and then now I can no longer have my chicken coop, so. But it does say 25 ft away from their house. Right, but I'm saying

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you could go ahead all the trouble put it put a you know, chickens in your yard and then neighbor goes and builds something and then now you no longer can't have it. So, I would recommend just a larger setback in general and keep it simple where it's not one property line

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setback and one structure setback. I think that bridge could be crossed if we came to it or something. >> And I would if it was me, I'd include swimming pool in the setback or outdoor covered structure. Your concern is that is what? I've ex-

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I've experienced it. I've been to a client's house in the city of Stuart, actually, and I was standing in their backyard. I was like, "What is that smell?" And they're like, "My neighbor has My neighbor has chickens right on the other side of the fence right there. That was an example someone did not take care of it and I know a lot of people will, but unfortunately there's a lot of

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people that won't. >> And you think that like 5 ft will make it not smell? Uh if it's 15 or 20, then it becomes their nuisance and not their neighbor's nuisance. Okay. >> So that's where my attitude is on Well, I personally don't think we're going to be overrun with people getting chickens personally.

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I think that in my opinion it's those people that want to get them, you know, won't be the whole city, but you never know. Eventually, I mean you're going to get the I I was surprised that there's less in here. There's like

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there's like a maximum size for the coop, but to what you're saying as somebody who's like kept chickens, like there's no there's no like minimum per chicken, you know, that can get really gross when people start to like have way too many chickens and >> But there it says a maximum of four chickens. So if you have like a little

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tiny I mean, so you're saying they might build a smaller coop. So I my neighbor in Golden Gate kept like six five or six chickens under their grill with a propane tank taken out. It was horrible and it wasn't for eggs, it was for fighting and

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>> humane. >> Right. And so I'm just surprised that there's not stuff in here about like if we're if you're going to force people to go to the city and get a permit, like shouldn't there also be some kind of like and here's the right way to take care of your chicken, you know.

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You've got to clean it, you've got I don't know how cities do this, but like if we're going to have people get a permit, shouldn't it also be about like, you know, keeping it clean and like It sounds like the city will get involved if there's a complaint of some sort. >> Okay. Oh. So

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along those lines, I I had two main concerns with the mechanics of this and to your point about coyotes and foxes, um and I looked statistically um

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it hasn't been too many years since there was a bear sighting right on Monterey Road, which is fine. The this language allows for securing chicken coop from predators.

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That is still not going to stop predators from coming around. And there's going to be an impact to the neighbors when they used to walk Rover or let him out in the backyard and now there's a fox there or a coyote or

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raccoons. Um snakes love chicken eggs. It's going to attract things and so um typically the reason for the livestock ordinance

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originally is because there's more density in the city and and they don't want to deal with those things. I'm a proponent of the chickens, but I'm also I also think there should be language that considers uh the impact and the cost to the city

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of dealing with that as far as animal control or, you know, calls for coyotes, whatever. Um because they're going to come around even if they don't get the chickens, it's going to attract animals like that. >> address that particular concern? Well,

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okay. I'm just going to say I where I live right behind me is a big parcel of city land that's vacant. And I have coyotes and no chickens, but coyotes in my yard every day. They're with the all the development that we have, there's

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nowhere else for them to go. They're walking up and down the streets. I mean, every neighborhood I go in, I see coyotes. It I don't think the chickens are necessarily and I'm not opposed to putting that language in. Th- This is what This is what I anticipate a phone call like to the city.

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I I walk my dog here every day and have never seen a coyote before, and now I've seen one three times in the last month. What are you going to do about it? And so, there's I'm I'm talking about an impact to the city now has to respond to that,

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and there's a cost to that. And so, um I'm wondering if rather than this being called a permit, if it should be a license that is renewed annually. And if in one area the density of

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chickens happens to be high, the city then can say, "We're either raising the cost of the licenses to deal with all of the additional traffic and response that we have to have, or we're not issuing any more licenses in this spot because it happens to be that five people on this

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block have chickens, and we have a huge activity of other wildlife that is attracted to the chickens. Uh I'm just looking at what what option do we give the city? In other words, okay, you get your permit, you pay a one-time fee, it's over. Ev- the rest of the neighborhood

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has to absorb whatever happens. So, if it's a license that has to be renewed with a fee annually, um the city can adjust that cost to deal with anything that may happen. And if nothing happens, the cost never gets adjusted.

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But if, you know, at some point if they say, "Animal control has had to respond to this, and it's we're spending a lot of time and money dealing with all this. You want to have chickens? All right, we got to deal with what the chickens attract in this area, and we can do that now. We've got some

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resources to do it, but the people with the chickens should kick in a little bit so that they deal with that. That's one concern that I have. The other one, to your point, I looked on I Googled chicken coops and um pens.

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You can get some bougie chicken coops. I I mean, these things are beautiful and and constructed and pre-constructed and they're they're really cool. But, the first thing I thought about to your point is we get a storm and that thing's going to blow into your neighbor's pool.

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Um so, there's no language in here about does any of this do any of existing code or building permits apply to the structure? To anchor it, make sure it's anchored down. If it's big enough, it should be

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anchored to a wind code. Um so that again, the neighbors don't have a chicken coop flying into the their yard when we get storm ABC. Uh those were my two things looking at this. I um

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I don't Can I respond or should >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Um one is One thing I would say is like, you know, the city doesn't issue permits for like a compost, you know, and I feel like you could have a 4x4 compost full of rotting food that attracts rats and

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snakes and coyotes and raccoons and the city has nothing to say about it, right? We don't have to pay any money. Like, I definitely have one of these composts that has rats in it. Um and you know, I don't think it's the city's like job to

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to monitor and regulate this at the four chick four hen level, you know? Like, it's not a farm. >> I don't think so either, but my point is what if on your street six out of eight houses have a four chicken

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level and now there's other things attracting because of that. >> And so, to have a dog, you absolutely in the city, you're supposed to have the dog licensed. >> Yeah, right. And it to have any other kind of animal that you would you know, okay, you you're going to use

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the chickens for eggs, but you're still I feel like a license that's renewed annually gives the city the option to adjust for impact of whatever happens. >> I have some concerns about that. One is I don't you know, there are very bougie

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chicken coops out there and and there are people who keep very bougie, rare, amazing chickens that Yeah. put out crazy colored eggs and like I don't think we should construct this to be just for them. So, I want to like I have concerns that people have to get a permit at all from the city. Like it's

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four hens, you know, like I feel like it's a private property thing. I don't think it's our job. I'm not going to like stop anything or vote against it if everybody else agrees that like yes, we have to permit these things. >> So, in the event of >> think it's like not real that there's

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the personal opinion. I'd be interested in the data, but like I don't think it's real that four four hens you know, across six residences in a neighborhood is going to attract more coyotes. And it's not only coyotes. I have the raccoons. My backyard is has snakes,

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which I love. I love the snakes. I don't mind the raccoons. I have >> think when you permit your dog, you permit your dog because it could bite somebody and make your dog it's because it could bite somebody No, you don't permit your dog. You license it annually to make sure the shots are up to date

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and everything else. And that also I've got to believe goes towards the resources for animal control and that sort of you know, if if someone has to call the city, if there's if there's no if nobody's accountable for the impact regardless of whether it's nil or a lot

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and if if it generates calls to the city to manage the the situation, where there's no account in here for that. I'd be interested to know that But but I have one question. Doesn't the county handle animal control? The city doesn't, does it? >> contracted with the county sheriff for animal control. We have a contract.

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>> [laughter] >> The county sheriff >> But there's still a cost of There's a cost to that. And and there's an impact to the neighbors. So, in answering phone calls >> that might happen or you've actually Whether it may or may not, I it's there's it should be a provision that is accounted for or everybody's going to

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go, "Well, you know, there's nothing we can do. We voted this in and the rest of you just have to deal with it." So, are you suggesting >> And and believe me, I'm a proponent of the chickens, but I'm just saying there's there's no language in here that that allows for that and it could

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happen. Everywhere I've known that people had rabbits, it attracted every creature, you know, and and people got annoyed. I can't walk my dog. There's this, there's that. I'm afraid. Well, are you suggesting like a a minimal license fee to start and that would go up if we if

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we needed it to Absolutely. >> things done. What's the fee right now? There's no fee right now. >> That was my going to be my other question to staff is is is there a blanket Does this fall under a blanket annual So, on an annual basis, we do a schedule of all uh fees and so forth and so it would be

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adopted every year and if it would if it has to go up, it would go up. Right, Jody? Is that That's what I'm in favor for of the city being able to say this is becoming a thing. We have to cover the cost.

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And if it's not a thing, it stays where it is. And Is that something Have you seen other cities that have had that kind of like impact and so then there's like an uh regulate like a response >> Well, and it also gives the city the

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option to say in this spot we're not granting any more licenses right now. Which I think is not the city's job. Could could the permit be used the same way as a license, though? I mean, they won't give any more permits. >> Not necessarily.

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There's no expiration of the permit. >> away if there's My thing is we shouldn't be going into people's backyards unless their neighbors complain. >> But there's with a provision, there's no With a permit, there's no provision to cover costs later. With a license that's renewed annually,

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it gives the city the provision to cover any impact costs from chickens being around in a neighborhood now. I just think that I have somebody who who would take care of their hands very responsibly. I wouldn't contribute, you know, I would dig in my coop so that, you know, coyotes can't get in and like

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I don't think I should have to cover the costs. >> be the most responsible person in the world, but coyotes, even if they can't get in, they're coming over sniffing around. >> But they're also like there are raccoons and snakes and coming to my compost. Like I said, you know, like >> Okay, so Well, I have a question. What

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are we considering the permit fee to be right now? Do we have a number? Right now, we have a zoning fee, which would be $65. 55? 65. 55, right? 6 65, yes. Oh, 65, 65. Okay.

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Um, so you would be more comfortable if we called that a license, not a permit? I would and I'd like to see that fee be maybe the first time because there's an inspection, it's $55 and that covers the cost of somebody or whatever it is and

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that covers the cost of city staff going out there and doing the inspection, working with the homeowner, dealing with that. And then after that, there's an let's say there's an annual license fee of $25. What's it What is it to have a dog now? I haven't had a dog in the last

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year. >> It's fixed. It's $10 or something. It's fixed. Okay, so 10, 20 bucks a year annual license fee and then it gives the city the provision to say, "We're having a problem with this. We're constantly running people out to

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reinspect these, the neighbor complaints, everything else. You know, we we we need to raise that fee to cover the costs of all that to $45 a license." I'm I'm kind of thinking like Caitlin says, it's not going to be a huge issue, but

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>> wonder if why can't we that, Do we have to like Do we have to like imagine a problem and solve it in this situation, or can we like you know, adopt the resolution, and if the city is having a hard time with it, you come back and reprocess the concern? >> Is that something we can do? Let's say

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that it that it turns into a problem, can the city make new rules requiring licensing, requiring different uh different things than we have in this right now? So, to be honest with you, I drafted the

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ordinance, and I don't know much about chickens, so I'm I'm learning a lot from some of the comments you guys are making, and you're bringing things to light that I didn't think of. So, that's why we're going through this process, and that's a good point. With cats and dogs, we do an annual license.

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Um when I reviewed all the other cities that I we Jody and I What did we pull? About six or seven municipalities? Yes, sir. And we looked at what they had, and we didn't copy one particular one. We took bits and pieces that we thought would be relevant. But that's not a bad

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idea, but I I I think right now it it it is a permit, it's a one-time charge. And there are uh like you mentioned that there are some uh provisions if they violate the you know, the the permit will be taken away. Um I I didn't think of an annual thing.

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Um But is that something we could implement in the future? >> mean, you we you do an amendment to the ordinance. And And technically, we're amending the ordinance by adding this, and I don't know that I made it clear initially, but when you look at the draft, anything underlined is adding. And if it's crossed out, which nothing's

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crossed out, that would be both in the um If you go to the very end um in the ordinance Nope, there's nothing crossed out. So, everything all we're doing is adding language to the text of the ordinances. Right. We're not deleting anything.

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Um so, uh everything here would be adding, but in the future if we felt the need that we needed to do a renewal on an annual basis, yeah, that could be amended to add something to that. >> So, this could be like a pilot program, see how it goes, and then if necessary,

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if if all your concerns and fears come true, we could always amend it to then make it an annual license fee. I chair. >> that's true, but I also think it's our job to be realistic about the possibilities of things to happen,

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and I think it's arguable that if you have chicken food or cat food or anything else left out anywhere and chickens and eggs in a in a spot, you're going to attract wildlife that may not agree with your neighbor's cat or dog or anything like

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that, and we're to blanket approve this with no vision of the impact possible impact of that, I I don't think we're doing our job. >> chicken feed shall be kept in a secured covered metal or plastic >> Well, they can't eat it in there. I think we can say

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>> got to put it on the ground for them to eat. >> also just say like there could be a problem, and so we're not allowing chickens, right? But we're trying to figure out like how to allow chickens. >> 100%. >> Karen, I don't I I don't think I think like adding extra regulation and extra like inspections and extra staff time is not

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saving the city money. Uh, well, it if you if if the neighbor calls one time and the inspector has to go back out there, that's already probably cost the city 150 bucks. >> And I think that's exactly her point. Even if, you know, the person pays a

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license fee, it's costing the city money to regulate. Yeah, regulate. >> Which we have to do. I understand. >> But there's no way with a with a a one-time permit, there's no way for the city to adjust

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to cover the cost. With a license fee, they can. We just said that every year. So >> they're going to come back here and and Okay. I'm sorry. I think that >> I get what you're saying. It's I think Jody has something to say. If you could turn to page five of your ordinance,

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there is some ramifications that if a permit needs to be revoked or if there's costs in the violation, it does say that the city can um uh recoup the cost if there's any actions taken against homeowner. There is provisions set in

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here that talks about that. Oh, interesting. So D and E does address I do think it addresses your concerns as far as a cost impact to the city. So typically if in today if we get a if

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we get a complaint about a chicken coop or chickens being on a property and we've had we've had complaints in the past. We do code do a code violation to the owner. They at that time they had to remove it or they go to the magistrate. There's fees attached to that. There's time

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frames. And then they and if they don't comply then there's liens placed on properties. Hopefully by the time we can get them to comply. Wow. But there is a ramification that talks about code action and cost um recoup. So my original point I wasn't even

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talking about code violation. I was talking about attracting wildlife and the animal control impact of dealing with that. That was my first thing. When I think about chickens or or anything like in it's going to attract It's been my experience my whole life here. It's going to attract

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uh other things. >> Predators. Yeah. And and and there's no there is no provision to um allow for that the cost of that impact for animal control resources or however that works in in

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here. I don't see how you can have even if it's four hens that can if a critter can smell them, they're coming around even if it's secure and they can't get in. And what I'm what I'm saying, what I was originally saying was now you live next door, you've got your

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little puppy that you let out, you know, and now there's there never was before, but now there's coyotes. And or something out there that's going to attack your rover or or whatever. And I love the idea of the chickens, but that's kind of not fair to whoever has the dog and

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they're going to call the city to deal with it and and if that I don't see how that can't happen. It's going to escalate. Huge problem? Maybe not, but I think that it should be uh

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a provision for the city to be able to collect annually or not. If it's not a problem, they never change the the the price. It doesn't go up. But if it does, if enough people in an area have chickens, I don't see how you're not going to have Do you live in the city?

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>> Absolutely. Okay. I have my whole life. No, you don't have to. I think you can just own property. Well, okay. And I mean a couple years ago I in the a block from where I grew up, there was a turkey walking down 10th Street. >> Yesterday. >> I couldn't believe it. >> A wild turkey crossed my front yard. >> It's a Yes, I have a video of it.

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>> The creatures are here. We don't see them all the time, but I'm convinced they're here. I know there's foxes and coyotes like you said and I just >> cats are getting >> My >> disappearing. >> One of the guys that works with me had his cat killed by a coyote and it it was violent.

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>> It's gruesome. Yeah. I mean, I personally I'm like a proponent of like not letting your cat outside because I believe they kill songbirds and they're in danger and you know, but I'm not I'm not coming to the city to be like you have to get a permit for your cat, you know. I So it's kind of like we live in

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a society like The uh you know, dogs also should be you know, in a fence or on a leash and coyotes are not as scary as you think. I mean, they do kill cats cuz cats run around and and get eaten by them. But, if a person is

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watching their dog or it's in a fenced yard, it should be okay. >> disagree. I'm looking at it as it's a phone call to the city's office. It's a response that the city has to make. There's a cost to that. There's no way to cover that, and I don't see how

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you can have chickens without there being some more for the city to have to manage. And a one-time permit fee of 25 65 bucks, I don't think it's going to cover it, and I think there should be a provision to

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do that. I would like to know your opinion on this. Cuz we have seem to have like sort of a >> I agree with your comments that most people are that are wanting this are responsible, but there's also there's the responsible dog owner, and then there's the irresponsible dog owner.

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Those are the ones I'm worried about. They're the ones that leave their dog chained like in the backyard all day long, all night, barking. And that's going to at least in the short term, I see that happening with this. This people are going to see this and be like, "Oh, that's cool. Let me get some chickens." Zero experience. You know it's not easy. It's I've never had them.

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I've asked a lot of people that do. It's actually kind of easy. It's [laughter] there's You have to know what you're doing. You have to take care of it. >> You do have to take care of it. People might do it well for few weeks, few months, and then they get busy, and then now they're not cleaning up the manure, they're not you know,

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keeping the feed in a proper container, and now you have you know, you have smell concerns in the summer, you have, you know, more rodents. We already have enough rodent issues, you know, in the city of Steuart. >> I think the license you get accounts for that. >> I'm just Yes, but I'm just wondering what what How would you solve that

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problem that you're bringing up? I don't know if I can solve everything, but I I mean, I don't I'm not 100% against the chickens, but I just see too many negatives. >> Do you feel the licensing fee would ameliorate that? No, that's a code enforcement problem. Right.

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No, no, but I'm asking him if a licensing >> What he thinks. >> It might help weed out the person that just shows up to a Tractor Supply and is like, "Oh, I'm going to have chickens today." You know, that might help weed some of the irresponsible people out if it's

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something a little bit more in-depth. I'm actually thinking of people who uh you know are doing this for protein for their family in a food system that's, you know, the food is getting very expensive. Um particularly like people in our city who kept chickens from

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their, you know, country of origin or whatever it is, and creating a structure where like you have to pay all this money just to keep them. Like I just don't like that, you know? It's a It's a very like It's a property rights thing, too. >> everybody being 100% responsible. Yeah.

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And the chicken coops are secure, and the feed is secure, and everything else, you are still going to attract wildlife that your neighbors may not want around. That That's That's the part that if everybody's got the best of intentions, that's the part that's not being accounted for. But I mean, my neighbors

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don't pick up their dog poop, you know, and I just kind of have to deal with that cuz I live in a city. I don't live in Montana on a, you know, 100-acre property. Like you just kind of have to deal with people. I mean, there's things you can do. Like you said, people can call the city if they're not taking care, you know. Um Do we

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Do you have to get Do you have to get Do you have to deal with the city to keep a beehive on your property here? I know you have to deal with the Yeah, there's actually There is a state agriculture, That's the state, though. There is a state statute that exempts They inspect >> um for honeybees. Yeah. And that you can have a

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>> know if the city did or not. We cannot. The state statutes prohibits you from even licensing a honeybee um So, all all the And And compost, the compost program with the city, you all partner with IFAS, with the University of Florida. Did anybody talk to

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University of Florida about backyard chickens and policy that's worked in other places or So, my previous um position at the at St. Lucie County, um I did write the chicken ordinance and we did we did uh talk with IFAS and they gave us um some good information to hand

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out to the owners when we handed out the when we did the permitting. Just some guidelines and that's something that we can do as far as far as the education component of it that we could actually uh give them that information. Um they do have programs where they do have um

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backyard chickens um uh classes. >> Classes, yeah. So, they teach you how to maintain a chicken coop, how long you should leave the light on because and chickens you don't want to leave the light on all all the time because they'll keep producing eggs. So, um they do teach you that and that's

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something that um we had already if this was going to if if this moves forward, um in our department, we will have a uh education component so they can link in to IFAS and there's other um uh 4-H clubs that um help them out as well. Okay. that um I have some

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resources that we can provide. >> that I took the composting class and got my composter from the city and I think it'd be really cool if we got if you could take a chicken course with IFAS and then get like a coupon to go to Tractor Supply and get a coop for half off. Maybe they'll help or something,

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but And some of the 4-H clubs um offer a pilot program that actually uh the people the kids can gain their um credits by assisting new um new families in how to maintain their chicken coops and how to feed them and and um

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take care of them. Yeah, I mean I teach um gardening at the Boys and Girls Clubs and I'm definitely thinking about like programming around this. >> Very cool. So, from what I can tell you're opposed to the license. I'm okay with the license. It's fine. >> Okay, so If everybody else agrees.

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>> If if we were to uh add a provision that they get that they renew a license every year, would you be comfortable? I would and my other concern was uh like Lance said about the structure.

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It um there's no language in here about um I If you build a big enough structure, there's no language about it being subject to the existing codes for being anchored down or whatever like a shed.

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Uh But but it is a chicken coop. There's a there's a it's got to be under a certain >> But it's about airborne like a shed. That's it. >> that could be 7 ft tall and in a in a 10 by 20. But people have like dogs enclosures and playhouses in their

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backyard. >> Yeah. I I I would be amenable to asking a licensing fee every year to renew it. I I think that's what I would want to see added and that's about it. >> Okay. That's my >> What what are you What does the staff think?

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Uh >> Do you think that renewing a license every year is a good idea? >> hard to add into the No, we can create that in our our system. Yeah, I I I I I I I >> our annual alarm permits, we could do the annual licensing for backyard chickens. Our annual what? Sorry. Annual alarm permits that we issue. She has a

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lot annual alarm permits that we could do like annual chicken permits. >> Okay. We already have it built in the system. Yeah. The payments are So. So, um any further discussion? All right. So, basically, we're looking at a motion

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that accepts this ordinance adding an annual licensing fee. And do I have a Can I before we vote on this? What is the What would What would that change in the process? So, it would be

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right now, as written, you go to the city, you get a permit, and then you never go to the city again? Uh correct. The city The city has the option of inspecting on an annual basis to check to see everything is up to code.

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Uh it's optional. I doubt we're going to have enough staff to do it every year to every person who has a chicken. >> do it when you get a call, right? >> Probably. We're reactive than proactive, it seems. Um but if we get complaints, that would you know, an active call. It It It It

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would cause a reaction for us to go out there and inspect it. Um and if they lose the permit, they would have to reapply for a permit. Now, with a permit, if it's $65 at the front, it might not be something that's renewed on an annual

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basis, but if there's a need to increase that cost, the permit can just be increased, and then when people are adding or getting chicken coops, it'll be an increased initial cost of permitting, but uh whether it's an annual thing, I I think annually you can keep up with it,

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and maybe make it a lower than $65. >> would I would definitely think it should be lower than $65. >> is a dog permit a dog license? >> $10 if they're fixed. If they're not, isn't it 45? I think it's 35. 35 or 45, something like that. I would be in favor of saying the the first time when they

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have to do the inspection, the initial license is 65 or whatever, and then after that it's 10 or 15 bucks a year. But but it gives the city a a uh a little bit of uh >> an option to adjust that if it becomes a thing. And if it doesn't become a thing,

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it's 10 or 15 bucks a year to your dog. >> your concern, I just want to be sure you know, like that when somebody goes to get a permit, the city's not going to withhold the permit until they go inspect the site every time. That's not happening. Right. >> I I think his the concern is just that he wants to have a little financial

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buffer to uh pay for any complaints or >> impact impact that it might have on the on >> I just I just don't believe that impact exists, but it's okay. I I'm actually with you, but I in in the spirit of

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compromise Okay. >> [laughter] >> I think it's like, you know, we're in a position here to like let let people do what they want on their private property with some oversight, but we don't have to like be in people's backyards every >> And

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nor will there be an inspection every year. It'll just be a >> but if you have to go back to the city and pay again and like I guess it's good to get more information from them or whatever it is, but so I don't feel that strongly. I just I just kind of think that's not the right way to

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I I personally agree with you, but we have two other board members who are kind of on the other side of the fence, so I feel like that's a good compromise to get the ordinance passed, the revision passed, so

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Is that the golf cart annual or is it bi-annual renewal on that? Does anybody I don't know the answer to I That's cuz I just got one. Well, we >> That's I remember what they're saying. It's once once a year, I believe. Yeah.

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And it's a simple process. I don't know. That's not through my department. That's actually done through the police department. >> got one. >> Just give an example. I don't know. So, we're asking how much it cost to golf cart renewal every year? No, I'm just saying that there's already a system like that. I don't know that it's

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I don't know that it's important for you guys to identify a dollar you know, staff could figure it out, but you I think it's the process whether it's a permit initial permit or an annual renewal that that's what you're proposing. It's just like any other renewal. You go online and you and you do it.

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Yeah. I'm just I'm just a I have a question. >> person, you know. I have a I have a property like And I understand there has to be oversight but >> we're in the city. There's density so there's neighbors and A tie it it's it's it's dead the motion

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would die so So if you have a tie the motion dies. We don't even have a motion yet so >> I actually motion to to recommend that the city adopt this as is. Any seconds? Oh gosh.

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I but you know that's going to make this probably make it die. It's a motion if somebody can second. >> I do not Any seconds? All right so at the moment that motion

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does not pass. Do we have any motion to approve this adding an annual licensing fee? I motion for that. Uh the chair chair or that you can't make a motion. >> I can't motion. >> But if you want to make make a motion no one else makes a motion you could pass the gavel to someone else.

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And they could be the chair. Okay so I would move that that we accept this with a license stipulation in lieu of a permit and the license has a

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initial fee the same as the permit fee but subsequent to that it's it's $10 annually and renews with the other city in the same way as any other city license for any other thing dog cat whatever. Any second? I'll second it.

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>> All right. Now a motion has been made to accept the uh ordinance with the revision that there be a license initial cost of 65 and additional licensing fee of $10 each

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year. We've had a motion made we've had a second. All in and I think we need to do a roll call, right? Okay. What what do you vote on that? I'll call the roll. Oh, she'll do it. Thank you. Thank you. Board member Paul Mary?

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Uh yes. Board member Grosso? Yes. Board member Vogel? No. And uh Vice Chair Gillette? Yes. Motion passes 3-1. All right. You owe me one. I'm not kidding. No.

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>> Hey, I'd like to have some chickens. Uh the motion passes as you say and now we are going to ask if there's any information from the staff for the staff update. Nothing from the staff. And I announce the adjournment of the

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meeting. Thank you. Thank you, everybody.