Welcome everybody to the planning board meeting. Uh we're going to start with the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all. >> Jessica, could you read the adequate notice >> in accordance with New Jersey statute 104-10? Adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the publications of record and has been posted here in city hall. For the benefit of the interested
public, this meeting is being livereamed to the city's YouTube page and also broadcast on Summit's government channel, which is Comcast channel 34 and Verizon channel 30. Any hearings on applications for development in this meeting are quasi judicial proceedings. Any questions or comments must be
limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board may legally consider in reaching a decision, and a quorum appropriate to a judicial hearing must be maintained at all times. Please note that fire exits are to my right, your left, and at the back of the room where you entered. The city has a listening system to assist the hearing impaired.
If anyone needs hearing assistance, please obtain the necessary equipment here at the deis and return it immediately after our meeting. >> Thank you. And roll call. >> Chair Bolson Alvarez >> here. >> Vice Chair Hamlet >> here. >> Miss Bowen
>> here. >> Council member Chris Foley is expected but not yet present. Mr. Dalaso >> here. >> Mr. Mr. Felman >> here. >> Miss Morrison >> here. >> Mr. Stern >> here. >> Mr. Stuntton >> here. >> Mr. Golden >> here. >> You have a quorum. You may proceed.
>> Thank you very much. The first item on our agenda is new business, the master plan consistency review for um the ordinance 263393. And I was going to have Mr. Burgess introduce it to us and discuss it.
>> Certainly, I'd be happy to. The ordinance was introduced uh on the 7th of this month and there will be a public hearing on it tomorrow night. Uh we have prepared a report dated the 23rd of this month identifying the level of
consistency and inconsistencies in certain areas that we identify in that report. Basically, as you know, the municipal land use law provides that anytime the governing body uh seeks to adopt a zoning ordinance or amend a
zoning provision, it has to be referred to this board. you have technically a 35day window within which you must respond because if the 35day period goes by uh the governing body no longer has
to abide by any document you submit >> which is why we prepared this report on your behalf. Uh very briefly the ordinance prohibits that it provides a a very specific amended definition of data
centers. um basically was designed to clarify u the spec the specificity of what is permitted and what is not. It prohibits data centers in all zones in the municipality as a principle permitted use allowed as
of right. Um there is some question in terms of the definition of computer centers which is distinguishable from data centers. Um, in terms of the wording as to whether or not that appropriately clarifies the issue as to whether
computer centers are permitted as an accessory use, which is customarily incidental to a permitted principal use. We have made one specific recommended modification to the text to clarify that point. If you look in the ordinance in
section >> one 12 C >> item number two C on page three >> where it says no uh this is identifying the fact that data the term data centers shall not include a variety of specific
things and where it's accessory it says no portion of the facility is used for cryptocurrency mining, high density computational processing or wholesale data infrastructure services. My reading of that would have suggested that
contrary to allowing computer centers as a an accessory use, it just simply prohibits it everywhere. So I've suggested that after the words highdensity computer computational processing, we insert the words for offsite customers. That will distinguish
those companies that would fall under the definition of computer centers and it would be those companies that are only using data center information for the purposes of internal use only and not for the
purposes of serving outside customers. So I will clarify the point and with that we have concluded that it this ordinance would be consistent with the master plan and re-examination report. The the last comprehensive master plan
was done in 2000. There was a 2016 re-examination report. Both documents have very similar goals and objectives. Um on the one hand we do point out that in some in certain instances
the um the goals and objectives talk about encouraging and promoting economic development and balancing growth and development opportunities with the need to protect and enhance the residential community. But on the other hand, the goals also talk about not only
maintaining the overall quality of life for residents in the community, but protecting against potential risks and adverse impacts. If you recall, we submitted a a June memo detailing some of the issues, adverse issues associated
with data centers. Um, so we feel that with the change that we're suggesting, we can conclude that it would resolve the discrepancy, be consistent with the master plan goals or certain of those goals to enable you to say it's
consistent with the m master plan. >> Thank you, Joe. >> Can we have questions first? Did you need to >> I was just going to point out, Madam Chair, that we did do a resolution for the appropriate time and we did include >> uh the recommendation that Mr. Burgess
spoke of on page two in his July 23 report in the draft uh resolution, but of course the board is free to decide as it wishes as always. >> Correct. So any discussion or questions? >> I guess I have one. Uh so Joe in
speaking with you and just to explain it to the public when when Joe Burgess gave his initial recommendations one of the things that he wanted in there was this couple of words um which is for outside users. So when the council introduced it
um here comes Mr. Chrisulloy um they took it out which it's fine um but we're re-recommending that it gets put back in. My question is, and this is more um in speaking with the city clerk today, Joe does not think it's a substantive change for tomorrow night. I guess the
city clerk will have to make that decision tomorrow. But my question is if we are if we're if we're saying that it's consistent with the master plan as is written, but we're adding the words. So how does
how will that work? >> We're recommending >> we're recommending. So okay >> we can only recommend >> right >> at this stage we're doing a consistency review and we're recommending that this is inserted so that it's abundant >> but as as written is it cons is it still
cons if we if they don't accept this change tomorrow is it consistent with the master >> that's up for discussion >> okay >> so does anybody want to >> I'm not trying to complicate it I'm just trying to >> that's the question again is it consistent as written and we're also
strongly recommending this reinsertion for clarity and it's cons it's not a substantive ch change for example if we change the th00and square feet to 5,000 square feet I think that would be a substantive change this is just clarifying what they're already what
they've already written so I don't see it as as but that's for the attorneys to decide um so any discussion from members >> I mean the definition already includes cryptocurrency not being allowed above in data center right so
But that's not the only outside user product that they could. >> But I think with that, I mean, even if it doesn't get in, I'm not I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but doesn't seem like it's >> inconsistent. >> Inconsistent, >> right? >> Okay.
>> So, so you're adding this so that we meet the definition of promoting business and quality of life. >> Correct. That's essentially the bottom line to it all. Yeah. >> Um there was some concern that I had
that there was an indication on a few people that the ordinance already prohibited as a principal use and would permit it as an accessory use to another permitted business. In reading the text, I just didn't think
it read that way. So, this clarifies that one point. And if the council does in fact believe that it was um all always permitting it as an accessory use, this just simply clarifies it. So therefore, it's not a substantive
change. >> Yes. >> Apologies for my late arrival. My daughter took my car, so I came by Uber. So these little surprises in parenting happen. My apologies. >> I understand. It's happened to me as well. Um Joe, I'm familiar with this matter to
a certain extent as the member of council also who requested the review by the planning board. So this review by the planning board is very valuable to me. Um I would ask you the question Joe if I may. at the time when the the um
ordinance was being drafted by council for the July 7th I believe it was a July 7th meeting the meet the first of the two council meetings in July there was a concern that by adding the words for
offsite customers you would be inadvertently allowing the use for on-site customers. Uh, for example, if you were to build a data center and employ some kind of fake
employee, fake business upstairs. I think Susan, you >> on one floor and a data center on another, then then the company could very well say there well there are principal uses for this call center >> and we want to close that whole >> and once there would be a principal use
that's prohibited. >> So, but just just ask you Joe. So that was the understanding of council when this ordinance was introduced uh and voted for for hearing at the 1 July council meeting.
>> Do you see a risk by adding the words for off-site customers? Does that somehow open a back door to on-site customers? because that's the concern that >> because it says no portion of the facility
is used for all those uses that I mentioned earlier uh for processing for off-site customers. You're only allowed to process information as an accessory use for your own in-house purposes. You're not out there trying to get customers to use your data center
operation. it's used by the individual companies and we identify financial institutions, we identify hospitals, governmental services, you know, that sort of thing. >> So, it's clear that it's limited in scope and very focused in terms of what
it's allowing and not allowing. >> I think that would go a long way to satisfying the concerns of other council members >> on this particular issue. I think it doubles down on the accessory nature as opposed to >> opening a back door.
>> Right. Exactly. And I think >> opening a loophole, which is what people were afraid of. >> Right. And in the the draft resolution, just in case we decided to make this recommendation, we put customers because it's also um a term of art that we've heard from a lot of experts is
off-site users. So, we're going to do customers and users just to cover everything. Um if everybody agrees to that ultimately >> I have a open question. >> Sorry I think Ryan >> Sam Alman and I can't remember the name of this company >> open it's okay
>> open AI so if open AI wanted to buy BMS to develop I don't even know which is there chat they just say it's chat GBT that's their product so they could do that couldn't they >> yeah but their customers >> they're constrained to a thousand square
feet >> for their data centers I don't think they'd find that very I think I can help if if you can confirm my understanding maybe this will help with some of the others. Um so we're talking about the use as an accessory use. It's banned altogether as a principal use. Right.
Correct. And we're now in the part two of the definition which is only the accessory used to the principal use and now it's already being >> um mitigated to the lesser of a th00and square feet or 20%. And first of all, C
said it's also banning basically all highdensity um servers within the accessory use. And what we're adding back, so that was banning altogether in principle and potentially if some interpreted it as also an accessory. Correct.
>> And we're adding back the off-site users only in the accessory use part of the definition. So that if there's some subet in a hospital where they have high density servers for on-site you know research or whatever it's only on that
smaller subset right of the definition >> and if I may >> so in your your example I think would be a principal use like if Chad was buying something and there was >> and I think the key is something that I missed in the initial presentation we have a cap of either 20% of the floor
space or a thousand square F feet, whichever is less, that's all they can have. >> Data centers obviously are a lot larger than that. So a data center is a principal permitted use would never be allowed based on a number of provisions
in this >> right >> regulation. So yeah, I think if that un my understanding is correct, I I think this is obviously a benefit to the definition because it was basically outlawing it for 10 square feet before this uh
potentially based on the interpretation of the reading. >> Correct. >> Whether it's substantive or not, I leave that up to the attorneys. Right. >> Okay. >> In terms of the change, >> anybody else have any thoughts on this? All right.
So, do we have a motion to find it not inconsistent and for the recommendation that we all discussed? >> So, move. >> So, moved. >> Second. >> I'll assume that also is to adopt the memorializing resolution so we could go
right to that step. So, >> thank you >> with that understanding. Okay. A roll call vote. >> Vice Chair Hamlet. >> Yes. >> Miss Bowen. >> Yes. Council member Chris Foley. >> Yes. >> Mr. Damaso.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Felman. >> Yes. >> Miss Morrison? >> Yes. >> Mr. Stern? >> Yes. >> Mr. Stuntton? >> Yes. >> Chair Balsson Alvarez? >> Yes. >> Okay. Very good. So, we got one thing off of
our agenda. Done. Okay. So, now we have an application. Temple Hill Associates LLC, 527 Morris Avenue. Welcome. >> Yep, that's it. >> Uh, good evening, Madame Chair, members
of the board. Uh, my name is Hillilary Uls from Dempsey Dempsey and Sheen on behalf of the applicant Temple Hill Associates LLC in connection with property located at 527 Mars Avenue,
block 402, lot 1, 3 through7, and 61- 63 in the NBR5 and R six zone districts. Um, the restaurant Aubrey's Corner is located on lot one with parking area located on the other lots.
The applicant is seeking minor site plan approval and limited variance relief to permit modest exterior improvements to the existing restaurant, including new architectural lighting and signage, as well as replacement and reconfiguration
of the existing entryway landings along Mars Avenue and Aubry Street, which do not require variance relief. Uh there is no change to the existing restaurant use and no expansion or intensification of the property. The
improvements are intended to enhance the appearance of the building, improve pedestrian safety and building identification and enhance this prominent corner location along Mars Avenue. The applicant, civil engineer Andrew Clark and architect Nicholas
Giuliano will address the plans and requested relief in greater detail. And Mr. Taylor will address the existing restaurant operations. Um, if the board has any questions for me, I'm happy to answer them or I can call Mr. Taylor. >> I think you should call your your
>> Madam Chair, but may just predicate always jurisdiction. >> The uh notice was sufficient. The content was sufficient. It was timely served and timely published on published on July 16. Certified mail July 13 both at least 10 days prior to this evening.
And as mentioned, the content was sufficient. So, the board does have jurisdiction to hear and decide the application this evening. Um, with the chair's permission, I can swear in all the witnesses as well as our board professionals. >> So, we could just get it done once. >> That'd be great. >> Uh, so if everybody who will be
testifying can stand, raise your right hand. Do all of you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Thank you all. Back to you, Madam Chair. >> Great. Thank you. So, who's your first
win? Okay, Mr. Taylor. And can you state your name and address for the record? >> Jess Taylor. Um, home address 12 Lincoln Avenue, Cadam, New Jersey. >> Perfect. Um, and what is your relationship to the applicant and the property that is the subject of this application? >> I'm the managing director of um, Temple
Hill Associates, >> and the owner and operator of Aubrey's Corner. >> That is correct. >> Okay. And are you authorized to speak on behalf of the applicant with respect to this application? >> Yes, I am. And you brought this application before the board concerning the property located at 527 Mars Avenue. >> Yes, we have.
>> And can you briefly describe to the board what is being proposed recognizing that the civil engineer and architect will address the plans and improvements in greater detail? >> Sure. Um we're looking to add some exterior lighting um predominantly to increase uh pedestrian safety along
Morris and um Aubry Street. Um and increase kind of the um improve the overall exterior uh facade of the building. Um we've done a significant amount of work inside um we've added some windows uh to the building and we've done some uh changes as well but
um on the interior but are looking to finalize what we have on the exterior. Uh we firmly believe that this is a a very important kind of gateway to Summit and downtown. Um and we think this would be um a really great opportunity to improve on the entrance into the city.
>> Thank you. Um and will the proposed improvements change the existing restaurant use or increase the intensity of the use? >> No, not at all. Um, and is the applicant willing to comply with the city forers's request to provide planting boxes or planters with
seasonal plantings along Mars Avenue and Aubry Street? >> Yes, we actually already have purchased um planting boxes. U we just haven't had the opportunity to to plant them. Um, but they we have them on site. >> Perfect. I don't have any other questions. >> Okay, great. Does anybody have any questions for this
witness? >> I don't. >> Yes. >> Just one. Is the uh I see you're reconstructing the landing on the stairs. That's good. Does I can't tell from the drawing. I apologize if I missed it. Does that change in any way or increase the easement onto city
property? >> So, I think that the engineer and the architect can answer that question. Um and um I don't believe that there was ever permission granted um for those encroachments. Um but obviously as
a condition of approval uh we would go before council and ask for either a license agreement or some kind of approval for um the encroachment. And I believe on Mars Avenue that entryway is completely within the property line. It would only be on Aubry Street that it
encroaches into the sidewalk. >> You have a >> Yes. Okay. >> Sorry. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Making you stand there while I do my notes. Um, so next witness.
>> Sure. Um, Andrew Clark. >> Do you want to run through qualifications? >> And Mr. Clark is your architect engineer. civil engineer. >> Okay. If you could just run through your qualifications and um the steps that you took to prepare for your testimony
tonight. >> Certainly. Uh my name is Andrew Clark. Um I'm a land surveyor in civil engineer. I was educated I have a bachelor hold a bachelor's degree in civil engineering and a bachelor's degree in land surveying as well. Uh,
I'm currently licensed as both a land surveyor and engineer with my license in good standing. I've appeared before this board. It's probably been a couple months um when I was last here. Um, feels like I'm in front of the zoning board almost every month. Um, and I've
also appeared with some frequency in Madison's zoning board, planning boards, and Chattam Burrow and occasionally Chattam Township and Floren Park. >> Very good. We find you to be >> qualified, >> acceptable. Thank you.
>> Perfect. Um, and again, >> license remains a good standing. Correct. >> It does. Always want that on the record. Thank you. >> Excellent. Um, and if you could desri describe for the board the existing conditions of the site, um, go through the site plan and respond to the board engineers comments. >> Certainly. Uh, I'll make reference to
the plan that was produced that I developed. Uh it's entitled site plan dated um 090925 and then last revision April 28th, 2026. >> No need to mark it as an exhibit. It was
submitted more than 10 days in advance. >> Yes, it was filed with the application. >> Yeah. And I've made no marks on the plan here. Um so the site is located uh it's actually uh in combination of zones but
um the the restaurant part of it is in the NB zone neighborhood business and then the some of the parking um tax lots are in the R six and R5 zones. Um but the site is consisting of a number of
tax lots. I'm not sure why they were never combined but they weren't. Um, we have we're in block 402. Uh, lots three, four, five, six, and seven. And lots one is where the building is almost entirely
on lot one, which is at the corner of Aubry and Morris. And then 61, 62, and 63 are behind it along Aubry Street. Um, so the building is is located almost entirely on lot one, which is the corner
of Morris and Aubrey. And there's a little bit of the building that's in the back on lot 63, which is in that R six zone, or rather the R5 zone. And the balance of all these lots is the parking area. So, there's substantial parking on this property, 170 spaces, uh, meets the
requirement, which by ordinance is 169 spaces. Um there's some handicap that's closest to the building. Um there's a recycling shed that's along Aubry Street and then a garbage enclosure that's behind that. There's a row of trees that
sort of screens the parking on Aubrey since that's sort of the more um residential side. Then this building that's here shown on the inside of lot two is actually not the property. It's not part of our property. That's where the bagel shop is
and a couple other little stores are in there, the cleaners. So, the crux of this plan, we're not changing anything in the parking uh the parking layout, the circulation, the drainage, none of that is changing at all. This is all focused on the corner
of Morris and Aubrey where there are a few um I'd say minor changes that are taking place. Um they've obviously done a lot of improvement on the building itself. It looks beautiful. I stopped by there on the way here. Um, but they're going to add some some lighting, some
sconce lighting along that um, the architect can better describe as he was more involved with that design and some signage. The in terms of like material improvements, uh, work on the ground, there's the
landing, um, that's being reconstructed that's along Morris Avenue. If you're facing the building, there's like a an a vestibule and there's stairs on both sides on the on the left side of it on this inside here. That door has been
decommissioned and there's sort of a it's a little bit awkward arrangement with the steps there if anyone's ever gone in in that way. And so we're getting rid of that awkward arrangement where there's you come down the landing and then there's like one more step down
to the sidewalk. So, we're going to get rid of that because that's confusing for people and it causes tripping sometimes. And then just rebuild in a slightly more modest manner the the farthest landing that's by the cleaners there. >> So, that's just being reconstructed in
the same location but a little bit smaller. Again, as um Hillary indicated, it's that's on the property that's not in the right of way on that section along Morris. And then similarly, we're uh redoing the landing on the left side of the
vestibule that's on Aubrey. That vestibule is the one that's encroaching on Aubry Street in the right of way and would need uh council permission. Um in fact on Morris Avenue, thank goodness it's not because I think that would need county permission there as well. Um, but
the the one in question here is the vestibule that's along Aubrey. And on the left side there's there's like a little landing and some steps down, two steps down, one or two steps, but then it sort of you touch down on the seller entrance, which is like a metal door in
the sidewalk. And so we're going to just reorient that so that you step out and then turn towards the street instead of landing on that seller entrance. So it's a little bit of a safety improvement. and and it's also in need of repair. Um,
that's the crux of the of the improvements that are planned. Um, I'm usually here talking about a lot more things like steep slopes and big drainage plans and things that we're doing, but uh, in this case, I'm talking more about things we're not doing. Um, >> the drainage doesn't change. There's
very little um, area of impact in terms of the work. It's maybe a few hundred square feet. We do have one issue that's outstanding that we'll have to address with the county. They did review this plan. They had a review letter that was issued. The the crux of their review
letter and I think it's kind of automatic for them for anything that comes in front of them based on what I've seen over and over is they want new sidewalks and new curbs along the frontage. >> So, I'm going to have to talk to them about that and see if there's if that's
really necessary. If it is, then we'll do it. um it it actually would cause more disruption and disturbance in terms of a construction effect than anything else we're planning to do. So that's something we'll have to satisfy with the county if they really want it. It's it
is only 40 ft of frontage. So we can put a new curb in and put a new sidewalk in and save them the expense um next time they do the road. But so that's an outstanding issue. Otherwise, the the drainage is exactly the same, the sidewalks and and there's no increase in
coverage. Um, so there's no triggers for storm water requirements or things of that nature. And I think that covers it. Um, unless I miss something, Hillary can catch me there or if there's any questions. >> Um, there's no new utility.
>> No, the utility work has been done already to get the restaurant running. Um, and then if you could just confirm that there's enough space on the sidewalk, you know, I think that was in the >> Yeah, the only place there's any change
to the space on the sidewalk is that landing to the left of the vestibule on Aubrey because we're reorienting it. That one step comes a little farther out than what's there now. But what remains is it's about 6'5 in. It's a little bit
more than 6 ft in there. And um so it's more than sufficient space for pedestrian movement. >> Perfect. And all of the numbers on your zoning chart, we've confirmed those are the correct numbers. So if there's any plans that have other numbers, we'll plan as the correct one.
>> Correct. Yeah. I think there was a question about the building coverage and F, but uh it would be as per the plan here, and that's not changing. >> Perfect. I I don't have anything else. >> I have a followup to that. So the the new step when you're turning it away
from that uh seller >> hatch >> um that's that's coming into the sidewalk a foot. >> Correct. >> Okay. And you said how much is remaining after you have that? >> Uh well on one side it's about 6'5 in
and it's almost 67 on the other side. >> Um and if city council for whatever reason says no we don't want you to encroach you can still have the have it. Yeah, we could we could reconstitute the existing
condition with, you know, an upgraded um >> concrete uh land. It's not like it's a deal. No, it's still functional. It's just better not to have you touching down on that. Yeah. >> Got it. Okay. Do we have any other questions for the engineer? >> I did actually. Um the entrance on
Aubrey now to the right of the where it says reconstruct existing landing. Mhm. >> Is that a ramp? No, that's a there's an enclosed vestibule there. >> Okay. >> And it's been there forever. Um, as long
as I can remember, it was the same vestibule that when it was Marco Polo, >> right? >> Which of course was there for decades. >> Um, and that's already been, you know, cosmetically rehabbed. So, it's it's got some windows and it looks much nicer, but it's it's an enclosed vestibule.
>> But does there need to be ADA compliance? There is ADA access that was provided when they renovated the restaurant. Uh it's not really shown on here, but um quite a bit a little a little bit down to the right there's a
new door that's on the outside at grade and just inside is like a little lift. >> Okay. >> Um so kind of like the prestige diner kind of thing. >> I haven't been there since reduced. So >> yeah, >> none of these changes is going to affect
the first aid squad's ability to get a stretcher into the restaurant, >> is there? >> It should not. No. >> Yeah, that's the only thing I would worry about is safety of getting people in and out. >> No.
>> Okay. >> Make sure you have the mic, Mr. S. speaking on behalf of EMS, they'd actually prefer the ramp to the lift because the stretcher will fit on the ramp. I don't think it'll fit on the lift. >> Yeah. I mean, I can't say that I was involved in any of that, but I I I think the access was something that was looked
at and designed for. That's why that door was added and uh the provision is there. I mean, there may be even in there a couple of steps up then often that's workable. >> I I think can answer the question. a
flight of stairs. But yeah, I'm I'm I'm probably not the best one to answer those questions. >> Okay, >> I just have a question. >> Marie, do you have anything? >> I have a few. Um >> Marie, just a second. Can we have Dia and then then you can go for just two
quick questions, Andrew? Um >> the first is uh regarding Union County. Is have you resubmitted the revised plans as they requested or is that >> No, not yet. I I've been trying to reach him >> because I kind of wanted to talk to him about it first. >> Okay.
>> Um because like I said, my sense of the letter is I've seen a number of these in different projects and I feel like they don't even look at it that hard and they just say put a new curb, put a new sidewalk in. Well, it seems as though they're pretty specific around the
concrete dense requirements or the the >> Well, yeah, but those are standard requirements for them and they have they have standard details that that that they want these specific details on there and and I think they even reference the concrete curb for example,
but it's all block curve in here. >> Okay. I I mean regardless we >> regard we'll satisfy them either way. It's not a complicated thing to do. It's just a >> and then my my second question is and maybe the architect is going to touch on this but um are the stairs as depicted
UCCC compliant or are they extending one foot beyond the last step? >> Actually >> or will that will you just handle that during the permit process? >> Uh I mean the the code compliance part of it I think the architect's probably
better equipped to answer that. Murray, >> I think I'll I'll start with um the question that Dillia had said um about that step that's sticking out on Aubrey. >> Um just from a just from a pedestrian access standpoint when somebody's
walking down the sidewalk, is there anything that's >> going to alert someone that this step is down at the bottom? There's there's no overhang. There's there's nothing sticking out. So, how would a pedestrian not see that? or not trip on it. >> Well,
>> exactly. Not trip on it. Right. There's Is there a railing that's coming out? Is there something that's a little higher to catch catch? >> I don't know if that one has a railing. That one he I'm getting a nod that there will be a railing on that. >> Talk to the other architect. Okay. So, >> yeah. Well, we'll let the architect answer.
>> Yeah, he he can answer that. >> Okay. Um the other um the other thing was um now not on your drawings but there was photos on the architect's drawings and there was a um over on Morris Avenue there or Morris Street there was um a
roof leader that was coming down and discharging right to the sidewalk. Um is there any other way to discharge that storm water so that it's not coming out on the sidewalk creating an icing condition? I mean, the only other opportunity would be to especially if
we're doing the sidewalks over and the curbs >> to to bring the pipe straight to the curb >> or is there something and maybe the architect can answer this. Maybe is there another opportunity on the the roof to bring that to somebody somewhere else during >> Yeah, because I know a lot of them on
Aubrey Street are are routed to the curb or some of them are going directly into an inlet that's there as well. Um, but yeah, I don't I don't know how that works up on top of the roof in terms of the, you know, the beginning of where the collection takes place. Um, whether
that's an option. Otherwise, the only other option would be to run it straight to the curb line instead of the sidewalk. >> Okay. >> But I mean, the there shouldn't be that shouldn't be problematic in either case because it's not a sump pump. Like some pumps are usually the ones that are
problematic in terms of icing that happens because if they run at all in the winter and then it's cold out then you get the ice. But >> in a rain event, you know, it rains, the water runs and then it stops and it stops running. It's not it's not like something that persists for half a day
afterwards. >> Okay. All right. Well, >> but but we can look at an option for that just to see if that's a better way to do it. >> Right. Okay. Um um I have questions about the uh the lighting, but I think I'll wait and ask the architect about that.
>> Um and and and maybe I don't know if this is you or the architect to talk about the encroachment of um light spillage off of the property line. >> Yeah, he's got a lighting plan that that was done for that and is well verssed. >> Okay. you're I you know my one of my comments
about um the county you're you're already working with them. >> Is there going to be any um equipment or additional um boxes on the outside for lighting at all? No, nothing on the ground. >> No.
>> Okay. Additional equipment. any um and this might be an architect question, but anything about the the dimming or um motion sensored? >> Yeah, he'll address that. >> He'll do all the lighting. Everything with lighting. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Oh, and everybody's done.
>> Is everybody done? Mr. Warner? >> Yeah. Just want to make sure uh Miss Ols, that as between our two applicants professionals who are testifying, we cover all the items in the engineers report. I know many of them are architects but can we uh
>> yes we will >> be confirmed that all relating to the engineer are will complies and then we'll see if we get will complies from all the architectural questions in the engineers report >> is there anything the we cannot comply
with >> no I mean again we're going to comply with the union county I just don't know what that compliance looks like at this point um >> that's up county and the applicant >> and I think that Andrew's addressed um quite a few questions. I think the other
questions are related to the lighting and so the architecture. >> So there's nothing that the engineer cannot or that you cannot comply with that's uh not correct that's engineering related in the engineer report. Thank you. That's all I have madam chair. >> Yep. >> One one item.
>> Yes. Uh just Andrew, if you could confirm for the record that all the areas of non-compliance shown in your zoning table are pre-existing conditions that are not being adversely affected by this. >> That's correct. They're they're pre-existing and are not being uh
expanded or exacerbated as a result of this work. >> Thank you. You can ask, but I think they have to. >> Yeah, I think I heard what you guys were talking about for the Union County. Sorry. For the Union County approval, that's going to be needed or maybe not needed. That would be a condition of can
that be a conditional? Yeah, obviously it's going to be condition for them. it's needed and we got a review from them and that we would have to satisfy in order to clear >> uh their approval and so I'm just trying to work out the details of of what
exactly that looks like and then we'll do whatever whatever they're going to be >> it's usually in the resolution as a condition of approval for this >> yeah that'll be part of it >> well I think just so you know how it works sometimes uh you know Marie Collers does their big long list of
engineering issues and a mix of architectural issues and hear from the architect in a minute. And then we usually button that all up unless the applicant does not agree, but typically they agree to all of >> to satisfy the >> to satisfy all of the concerns. And that's one of the ones listed in the
collars. >> The only reason I bring it up is just because we we are a little short staffed in DCS right now. So if we could if we could have uh that tied to collars and not the city engineer, I think it would be helpful for the city. Um, yes. I've just seen so
many applications where something's required for D or this or that and it's I don't know if we're supposed to have you check it or so I think we need to be just very clear going forward. >> I think it'll be when we do our resolution compliance. It'll go to Marie and then she'll review everything. >> Perfect. >> Ju just one correction for the record
that uh it's not usually in the resolution. And it's always in the restaurant, but and we we we have the general all outside of agency approvals, but we also include all the separate specific ones when they're listed. So the uh included but not limited to
>> duly noted both ways. Thank you very much. >> Perfect. >> Okay. So are we ready for the architect? >> Sure. Uh Nicholas Juliano >> public questions. >> Oh, sorry. Public. I'm so sorry. Do we have questions from the public for the engineer?
Nope. Doesn't look like we do. Okay. >> Thank you, Mr. Clark, for that reminder. It's been a while. >> And then if you could just go through your qualifications for the board. >> I'm sorry. First name, your name is >> Nicholas Giuliano. >> Yes, that's right. Thank you. >> You You got that question right. What's
your address on? We're going to go for two for two here. >> This is fine. business 16 Maple Street, Southern New Jersey. >> The rest you'll get from your your council, >> right? You can just run through your qualifications. >> Sure. Um appeared before this board
fairly recently. Um appeared before the zoning board a number of times and have testified also in um Milbour, Monontlair, Westfield, Rumson, and Middletown most currently. um have a bachelor's of architecture from New Jersey Institute of Technology and
currently licensed in New Jersey and New York State to practice >> and remains a good standing. Correct. >> I believe so. Yes. >> Okay. We we accept your qualifications. Great. >> Perfect. Um and can you just run through the steps that you took to prepare to give your testimony tonight? >> Sure. Um I've been to the site probably
a hundred times since the renovation started. um drove by there recently as well just to kind of see the lay of the land since everything's been done and all the construction equipment's gone. Um compared it to, you know, the restaurant next door, what the rest of the street looks like. Um feel like we
have a pretty modest application that really enhances the property overall from the outside. >> Excellent. And you've obviously um prepared plans and had conferences with the applicant, reviewed the administrative comments, reviewed the ordinance. >> Yes. >> Yep. Perfect. Um, and then using the
plans that were filed, can you describe for the board what is proposed um, from an architectural standpoint? >> Sure. I'll start with the exterior landings and steps since it seemed like there were some questions on that for Andrew. Um, that part of the project's primarily just to enhance the safety of
the site and um, help with the pedestrian wayfinding. As Andrew had mentioned, the Mars Avenue entrance vestibule is really not supposed to be a primary entrance anymore. So um during the design phase, we had decided with the owner to remove one of the um
exterior landings and steps going into that vestibule and really just maintain one towards the corner for egress purposes on the inside only. It's a non- entry door and um on the other Mars entrance, the plan was to um eliminate
the awkward single step at the bottom. Um couple of the other steps have unequal riser heights. the current railing is probably not code compliant anymore. So, we're planning to just reconstruct that entire step um in STOP. It'll actually be smaller than current. It'll just be sized for kind of the
minimum platform size you need. All of the new riser and tread heights will be code compliant. We'll be building a new guard rail and handrail that are all code compliant to current code. Um, all of the other steps on the site don't require full guard rails because they're
only two steps a piece, but we're still including just a single handrail for convenience. And that'll help with some of the um, you know, kind of visual cues that you were concerned about on Aubry Street. They'll see the step, but they'll also see the handrail coming in. Um, the menus in that landing, it's
illuminated. The door will have a sign on it. So, we feel like that vestibule will really kind of signal itself as the entrance to the restaurant and don't feel that there'll be a tripping hazard of any kind. Um, really we feel like it's going to feel better for people to not have to step so close to the
basement access door just cuz I know when I'm walking on the street >> on A3 the the railing that's going to be where that step's protruding. >> That's good. And then yeah, we have a new um wheelchair lift on the inside of
the restaurant. Right next to the wheelchair. Um there's wheelchair lift. There's actual steps into the restaurant and those are directly in front of the door that's at grade. So if there's any concern about stretcher access at the lifted vestibules on Mar Morrison
Aubrey, that rear entrance is a pretty straight shot right up to the first floor. When you open that gray door, you can kind of go right up. It's only two steps about six inch risers a piece. So, we feel like that would be pretty good access if anybody was coming in with a stretcher or just any kind of bigger
piece of equipment that might be tougher to jockey through the main entrance vestibules. But, >> Mr. Stuntton, do you have anything else to >> ask about that? >> Sharp right turn. That's good. >> No, not really. None that you can't make pretty successfully from the inside.
>> Okay. All right. Um, we have a lot of lighting questions, but >> Yep. I think uh if you want to just run through maybe the signage, the lighting, and then >> Yeah. So, I mean, most of the lighting that we're here for on the application, it's essentially kind of decorative in
nature. It's very dim lighting. Um wall-mounted lanterns, similar to what Summit House has. We're not actually doing gas lanterns here. They'll be electric, but it'll be at a similar kind of light level where it's really just a glow um on its own. doesn't really illuminate much to be honest. Um, other
than just the little bit of facade right in front of it. Um, there'll also be some gooseeneck lighting um, illuminating the Aubryy's corner sign that's already been installed. Um, that'll be shielded. It's facing only against the building, not down onto the
sidewalk or out onto the adjacent street or um, neighbors. And we have um a foot candle calculation photometric chart that was prepared by the lighting designer. Um really the most intense
part where we have light spillage is at Mars Avenue right in front of that vestibule. We get up to about 1.2 ft candles there. Um the ordinance does stipulate that you can be up to 1 ft candle for commercial sidewalks. So we're kind of close to that level
already. There's street lights already that exist there. Everything down Aubry Street is really pretty low numbers. Um, you know, by the time you get to the sidewalk, we're at 3 2 4. Um, you know, and again, this is not abudding another
property on either of these two sides. They're just onto the street. And the lighting really terminates very far away from when you get to the first kind of residential block on Aubry Street. So all of this kind of stops on if you go back to the photos
really the last piece of lighting we're installing is at the end of the new green storefront and all of that stucco at the end here is all just non-illuminated other than just emergency lighting. >> Sorry. >> How many feet is that? >> Probably I scale it off from the plan.
I mean probably 50 feet to the edge of the building. Then you still have the parking driveway to get into the parking lot and then the next lot starts. So probably 70 or 80 ft from the next lot >> from the last. >> Yeah. >> I don't think it'll change kind of the
perceived brightness from from either street. And really I mean you want a little bit of light on the sidewalk to get there. There really wasn't much to begin with when it was Marco Polo other than just the street lights. So again, helpful for wayfinding for people. >> So the dim lights are going to shoot
down so that it does help with pedestrian >> just like kind of a general ambient light outward. They're they're glass lanterns. Um I'll go to the last page here on A five, I believe it is, >> has a cut sheet of that light. Um it's a
copper lantern that gets mounted onto the building. It's got a opaque cover on top, but then all four sides of it are glass. underneath the bottom cuz I saw they're they're nice fixtures. Um yeah, >> the bottom is open or is it solid? >> I think the bottom itself is solid to
hold the fixture, but then the four sides of the vertical are glass, clear glass, right? >> Um >> I'm actually thinking about lighting around the the step. >> How much is there going to be enough just to see it accurately? Because >> it does stick out. It's a little >> Yeah. >> awkward.
>> Um but I understand why you're doing it and it has a railing which is helpful. Um, does anybody have questions about the lighting on the building? >> I do not. >> Just for clarification, you referred to,
if I may, Madam Chair, earlier the foot candle illumination levels. You were referring to the diversified uh uh sidewalk lighting sheet uh dated February 11, 2026. Would that be correct? >> That's right. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Marie, you ready? Um, do you want to do that or do you want them to do the signage and then answer questions? >> I thought we'd stick to lighting unless that's more difficult. >> That's totally fine. >> You know, do it by topic. >> Sure. >> Um, do you have any um hours of
lighting? Any switches to turn off the lights at any time? What What are the plans on there? >> Uh, to my knowledge, and I'll let Mr. Taylor confirm, um, I believe they'll just be turned on sort of at the evening hours. um you know, right around dusk and probably run until the restaurant
shuts at the end of the night. They won't be on overnight at all. >> Okay. So, on some timer or some phototric, >> right? >> Right. Photometric. That's not what I meant, but >> timer. Yeah. >> When's the restaurant closed?
>> Sorry. >> Um so, I'll have Miss Can I have Mr. T? >> Sure. Remains under >> just so we can >> So, um the kitchen closes at 9. So, we're closed always on Mondays. Um, on Sunday evenings, the kitchen closes at 9:00. Um, pretty much all six days,
usually we have guests stay maybe an hour or so after the kitchen closes. Um, so on Sundays, it closes at 9:00. Um, Tuesday, Wednesday, it closes at 10:00 and then Thursday, Friday, Saturday, uh, the kitchen closes at 11:00. Um we've been open now for just under a year and
I think I have had guests um there past midnight maybe once. Um so it it we certainly will have a timer um that we'll be you know using and certainly won't have those lights on past uh the guests leaving. >> Thank you.
>> Okay. Any other questions on lighting? Uh >> no. I think I'm I think they've covered all of the other >> Great. Okay. Perfect. on to signage. >> Okay, on to signage. So, as you know, if you've been to the site at all, the main Aubryy's corner sign has already been
installed. Um, it was compliant with with all the signage requirements as of right. Um, it's really just the accent signs and their relationship to this sign that are um necessitating the variances. Uh, the first set of signs
are really kind of small accent signs at the corner of the building. Um, and these are really just more of a design motif than anything else. We're really emphasizing that this is a corner building. Um, if it isn't evident in the name already, but we're showing two small street sign placards on both
streets meeting at the corner of the building. Um because the building is on the lot line for the most part on Aubry Street and very close to the lot line on Mars, putting two signs at a corner that way creates the variance for um distance
from the lot line on the Aubrey Street side. >> Right. >> Um from Aubrey to the property line, again, there's no neighbor on that side. It's the street. So, we feel like it's not that impactful in the sense that it's a sign too close to somebody else's
storefront that may have a sign that's conflicting. You know, it's just the street once you get beyond it. And the other variance is for the Aubry Street placard street sign and its proximity to the main Aubry's Corner sign. And again, the main Aubry's Corner sign is placed
above the first two kind of glass storefront pieces that you can see it from Mars when you're coming down the road. But because its position relative to the lot line, the street sign placard for Aubry Street is within 6 ft of distance to the Aubry's corner sign.
Again, it's a much smaller scale sign than the Aubry's one. It's very much a major and a minor sign. And in terms of all the other signage requirements, we're well under the total amount of square footage of sign we could have for this for this storefront overall. Um, the letter heights are all quite small
compared to the maximum allowed. So, we feel like the signage for the building itself is pretty unobtrusive. Um, there could be a lot more signage without any variances, but just this particular design necessitates a few because of the building's position to the lot lines.
>> Thank you. Questions? >> Just for clarity, none of the signage is illuminated, correct? >> Uh, not internally illuminated. The main Aubryy's corner sign will have gooseeneck lights that illuminate it from above, but nothing's back lit or internally illuminated.
>> Mhm. Any other questions regarding signage? >> You have one. Okay. >> Yes, I do. The the I don't want to disappoint you. The the the the uh just for confirmation, the magnitude of the deviation for the sign separation
variance is 3 feet, i.e. 3 feet versus six feet minimum required separation. >> Correct. >> Yes. Let me um look at my chart just to see the exact number. >> That's correct. >> Yes, that's correct. >> I cheated. I looked at Mr. Burgess's memo.
>> He's never wrong. >> Speaking of Mr. Burgess, do you have >> That's right. >> Correct. >> That's correct. That's right. >> Okay. Great. And I guess the uh uh the um sign setback deviation is actually
less than a foot 3T required 2T 3 in or thereabouts is what exists. Correct. >> Okay. >> So we have that magnitude. Okay. Thank you. Nothing further >> Joe. Do you have anything? >> Uh no. When you get time to deliberate I'll offer a couple comments.
>> Okay. >> Okay. All right. So, do you have anything else to share with us? >> Um, I just have um a brief closing statement if that's okay. >> Well, we we're not quite there yet. We have >> Oh, sorry. Questions for the public.
>> I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Questions for the public for from the public for our architect. >> No, you have another question. Oh, good. Go ahead. Um sir, can you just confirm that the the handrails are going to or can we
make this a condition of approval they're going to extend past that so so that the UCCC compliant? I'm not sure if they were in those depictions or not, but in speaking with the building official, I know he was a little bit concerned about that. >> Right. So the the new stair on Mars Aav,
the one with the denser um picketing here, that will be a fully code compliant stair with the handrail extending one foot beyond the bottom tread. The other sets of steps >> aren't required to have any handrails by code. We're really just putting them there for a matter of convenience.
There'll be a little bit of a decorative curve probably as the rail terminates beyond the last step, but we didn't want to bring this handrail particularly a full foot beyond the step because then that's another >> How far do you think it extends? >> Probably 4 in maybe in that version.
>> Is that just because it's shorter? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But if I may, just for clarification, no handrails that are being installed or will be installed will violate uh the construction code. It's just a matter of
you're installing more than is required. Correct. >> That's right. >> Marie, can I ask your opinion? Um with regard to tripping and just it's unusual to have a step going into a sidewalk and it's in the cities right away. Would we recommend something more extended than
four inches just to to try and catch people's eye so they don't trip or do you think 4 in is sufficient? >> I think that's sufficient. You know, it's it's something to catch their eye, you know, a little higher up than just the foot level and I think I think that's adequate. >> Didn't somebody recommend planners like
to buffer that which they could be on either side? >> I'm going to provide those. Yeah, might be helpful. Sure. >> I mean I am unfamiliar with I saw Mr. Linson's comments and I thought are they allowed to do that because they're in the right ofway. >> Yes, it's same thing like La Fakatcha
because they are um temporary and you can remove them then you don't need >> so they can be yes they can be moved around. >> All right. So maybe that's a good idea just for safety so people don't trip on it to put them on either side of the step. Okay. >> Actually madam chair you alerted me to something which is you mentioned one of
the other reports and I was focusing on the planner engineers reports but maybe we should double check and make sure uh where either comply with the foresters report and with the construction officials report as well. >> So we have fire is that all of them or just those? >> Um I think those were the only ones with
any comments. >> Ah gotcha. Okay. So we had engineer, we had construction code, we had forester, >> we had I guess HPC and and EC had recommendations as well. >> Uh they just um said that they agreed with the design. They like the design.
There was no specific comments to comply with. >> Got it. I was going by the check marks on the on the cover sheet. Didn't get to the reports yet. Okay. So, we got them all covered. >> Okay. Good. >> My my last question is this isn't going to change delivery times or can you just go over what the current delivery hours
are for the restaurant? >> Sure. >> Remain on the road. >> Um it won't change anything for current delivery times. Um the uh waste removal is um from what my understanding um to the city's requirements of sometime
between 4:00 and 9:00 a.m. Um and then the only early um delivery we have is the bread delivery and that's usually around um 6:00 to 7:00 a.m. Those are the early ones. Everything else is norm, you know, normal business time. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Thank you. All right. So, um I think we can wrap. Well, you want to do your comments? >> Uh public comment. >> Thought we just asked that. >> That was a question. >> Yeah. Questions. Now they get to comment. >> Oh, that's right. Comments. >> Yeah. Do we have any general comments
for this application from the public? >> You get to be sworn in by me if you if you make a comment. No. Okay. >> Have to tell the truth. >> Okay. You scared them all away. >> No, I don't think they ever >> Okay. So yeah. >> Okay. So if >> you may proceed with your closing
statement. >> Okay. Excellent. Thank you so much. Um so the record demonstrates that this is limited and carefully considered application for an existing property and an existing restaurant use. Um the proposed improvements are modest. They consist principally of uh lighting signage and the replacement and
reconfiguration of the existing entry landings. There is no expansion of the building. And as Mr. retailer confirmed there's no change in the restaurant's operations or any increase in the intensity of use including parking demand, hours of operation deliveries or
service activity. The requested variance relief is similarly limited. The deviations relate to the location and separation of two signs and the illumination levels at the property line. As the testimony established, these conditions are directly related to
the existing configuration of the property, including its corner location, and the fact that the building is located at or near the property line. The proposed lighting is intended to provide appropriate illumination at the entrances, improve pedestrian visibility, and assist with building
identification. The signage is modest in scale and designed to provide identification from both Mars Avenue and a Aubry Street while maintaining the architectural character of the building. Um it's important to look at the application the context of this
particular property. Um it is at a prominent corner along Mars Avenue, a busy county roadway and an important gateway into the city. The improvements will enhance the appearance of the property, improve identification and wayfinding, and provide a safer, more
welcoming pedestrian environment. Uh the requested relief is appropriate because it is limited, sightspecific, and driven by the existing physical conditions of the property rather than by an effort to intensify or expand the existing use.
The proposed improvements advance the purposes of zoning by promoting public safety, improving the visual environment, and enhancing the character of this corridor. There's no substantial detriment to the public good. The lighting has been designed to be modest, shielded, and directed toward the
building and pedestrian areas. The signage deviations are minor, and the application does not create any additional demand to the site. Accordingly, it is respectfully submitted that the applicant has satisfied the applicable standards uh for the requested minor site plan
approval and variance relief. The application represents a thoughtful improvement to an existing property without changing the nature or intensity of the use um and will be an enhancement to the property. Therefore, the applicant requests that the planning board approve the application subject to
reasonable conditions as the board may deem appropriate. >> Thank you. Okay. So, we're going to go into close session now. >> What do you not close session? What do you call it when we get to deliberate without anybody else?
>> There you go. Okay. Um I think Joe might have some comments regarding C1 and C2 variances. >> Yes. It's interesting although they didn't use the terminology when they testified they did touch upon the statutory burden um in terms of improved
wayfinding aesthetic enhancements and improved public safety uh to combine C1 and C2 primarily C2 which is the public benefits test in terms of the lighting in terms of enhanced public safety it's
also a C2 public benefits test and when you when one looks at the extent of that lighting deviation from permitted 1.0 foot candles to the proposed 1.2. I would venture to say that there's not a person in this room they could
distinguish with their eyes what that difference is is very dim the minimous differential. So in terms of public safety, excuse me, in terms of the negative criteria, there's no substantial detriment to the public good for all those reasons and
there's no substantial impairment to the intent of the master plan or zoning ordinance because of the dimminimous nature of the relief that's being requested. >> Very good. Thank you, Joe. All right. So, it's time for us to discuss
>> any comments or opinions or feelings on it. >> I mean, how would you want to proceed? >> I would say I think it's I think everything after looking at it for this weekend and most of today, I think it's very reasonable. I think it's a nice addition. >> You know, it's tough starting a new
business, so I think adding lighting and and signage will hopefully make you more successful and seems very reasonable. Um, so I I fully support this application. Great. Anybody else? >> I would agree. I mean, what they've done so far has really been transformative
and this just puts the icing on the cake >> with the lighting and >> I support it. >> I have no issues and I like the fact that they are thinking about the safety of people on the sidewalk and people inside the restaurant. And so, as long as John's okay with it, I'm okay with
it. >> Very good. Very good. tee it up real quick for a motion. >> Sorry. >> But would you like me to tee it up for a motion for >> Well, I just wanted to um >> when you're done >> say a couple of things before you teed it up. >> Yeah. Um but I wanted to make sure
anybody else had any other comments, Mr. Stern. No. Okay. So, a couple of things that we touched on and I just don't I just want to confirm with Marie and Joe that they're covered in what you put in your reports that you're agreeing to uh
address. That's correct. Um the the storm water downspout onto Morris, is that uh something that we that they are agreeing to? Was that specifically in your Did I miss that? >> It actually was not in my letter. That's what I So um but it sounds to me like
they're willing to look into it to see if they can direct the water to another location or if they have to rip up the sidewalk that maybe they can, you know, pipe it underground um so it's not an icing condition on the sidewalk. How do people feel about making that a condition of approval because of ice?
You know, if that's if it's going right onto the sidewalk at Morris where it's a busy street. >> I guess has icing been an issue in the last year of >> I think it's a good idea to make it a condition of approval. I mean, we don't >> It does sound like you're digging up the sidewalk for the county anyway.
>> Correct. >> Um, we may not have to. It depends, >> but we can certainly look >> also look at piping a down spout to another corner. >> I I think that the applicant is definitely willing to look into it to see if there's a better location.
>> Would it be a if if the board so desires a good faith obligation uh subject to the review and approval of our engineer? >> You could work with Marie. >> Uh would you be able to stipulate to that and then the board will decide if that's sufficient >> rather than us dictating that you could
work with Marie on on solutions? Okay, great. Um, the I'm not sure if we have to put in the hours of operation for just to if we're saying if if they're testifying to uh turning off the lights when they close, but then they're open till 4 in the morning. I don't even know
if that's legal, but do we need to put the the operation times in there as part of the conditions or just >> put in there that they're going to >> I think I I think they were testifying to when the lights are going to be on and off, not necessarily what their hours of operation were. I
don't >> Right. Right. You're linking it to that. We're linking it to when that that when they close, >> then the lights will go out at >> the lights will be off no later than >> is it 11:00 p.m. each night or are there any nights when it may be midnight?
>> It would be I would say midnight because you want to wait for all of the employees to >> if the board wanted to tie Yeah. If the board wanted to tie it to Well, I think I know where the chair is going. What if the operation hours of operation change and they get extended albeit unlikely >> um might might be problematic to to
extend it that much permitted. >> Yeah, I don't think you could but if you want if the if the board wanted to quantify a time for absolute >> or we could just leave it at hours of operation if everybody's comfortable with that. I just thought I'd ask. >> You want to leave it 1 hour post or 30
minutes post uh closing or or just >> Well, when do your people leave? nine o'clock on Sunday, 10 o'clock Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 11. >> No, but I was asking when the employees leave, >> right? >> By midnight. Mr. Taylor, >> that's when the last guest so far in the
history of um has the latest that they've left. The staff usually leaves about an hour afterwards in terms of cleaning. And >> do they need that lighting? >> It's not because they always they all use the um employee entrance door which is on the um in the parking lot.
Okay. So, any thoughts on that? I think the simplest way would be perhaps a cut off at midnight and just give it a number >> and on most days what uh if they mention uh their Sundays
>> Sunday 10:00 >> Sunday 10:00 weekdays every other day midnight cut off >> but I would say that there's a chance that it would be off before that but if you put in 12 then >> it's just the outside number so we have some some kind of idea okay for
perspective. You want the lights on, you know, while the guests are leaving, >> right? Exactly. >> Shut off. >> Okay. >> We have the step. >> Okay. Thank you. Um and you're going to go to the city for the encroachment and that's already
agreed to. Yes. Right. And then um >> Oh, delivery times are the same, but you you confirmed that in testimony, so I'm not worried about that. Anything else for to clarify any conditions that we have >> for approval? >> I don't think so. Okay. So,
>> go. >> My understanding is the relief sort is a minimum sign setback uh 3T versus uh 3T required 2T 3 in proposed. Sign separation of between Aubry Street and Aubry corner signs uh 6 ft separation
minimum required 3 ft proposed. And the illumination at the lot lines is I I heard as much as 2.3 foot candles whereas 0.1 ft candles is the maximum permitted. Um uh >> it's it's 1.3
>> I'm sorry. Oh okay. Oh Joe will double check that one on I might have might not be always perfect. The the the the um but u >> and minor site plan approval >> right. Well minor site plan approval always. Right. We got that. Uh so it's mon site plan approval with assigned
setback signed separation and maximum illumination at the lot lines all the conditions set forth in the various uh reports as stipulated to buyer on behalf of the applicant as well as all handrails UCCC compliant and all
a good faith effort uh to uh find a alternative location for the downspout for the storm motor runoff from the downspouts subject to the review and approval of our engineer and cut off on the lights uh
absolute cut off at midnight and I believe those uh were all the individual conditions of approval. So that would be the motion I'll assume unless I'm told told otherwise. >> I move so moved. Second. >> Okay.
>> Vice Chair Hamlet. >> Yes. >> Miss Bowen. >> Yes. >> Council member Chris Foley. >> Yes. Mr. Domaso, >> yes. >> Mr. Felman, >> yes. >> Miss Morrison, >> yes. >> Mr. Stern, >> yes. >> Mr. Stuntton, >> yes. >> Chair Bolson Alvarez, >> yes.
>> So, uh, thank you very much. >> Thank you. You did a beautiful job. >> Looks great. Um, shall we take a little break for everybody before we start the next application? We're going to do a fivem minute break till 5 of 9.
I will let you know. I'll give them a chance. All right. So, the next item on our application is 190 River Road. >> Good evening. I'm sorry. >> Before you begin, and my understanding is we may have a board member uh who is recusing himself from the matter. Uh
board member Delmaso will be recusing. We still have uh I believe 2 4 6 8 9 8 9. Yes, nine members full compliment uh to proceed without Mr. Delmare. >> Okay. No, thank you for pointing that out. Um good evening, Madam Chair,
members of the board. Jason Tuvel, attorney for the applicant. This is an application for 190 River Road. It's block 102 lot one. It's for preliminary and final major site plan with some C variance and design exception relief. Um, as the board may be well aware, this
is the old Wells Fargo building. The property is located basically on an island um at the edge of the municipality um close to the Millburn border. Um this is a fourth round site, meaning it's a four it's part of your fourth round affordable housing plan. Um
where the developer in this instance worked very diligently with the municipality and its um city professionals to come up with the plan that's going to be presented before you today and at subsequent hearings. So the application is for 198 residential
units. 30 of those units would be set aside uh for affordable housing consistent with your affordable housing plan as well as the settlement agreement um with the municipality and the zoning ordinance that was subsequently adopted in furtherance of the u of the housing
plan. The site plan as you're going to see before you is to repurpose the existing building. So, it's very interesting on a lot of these projects, you know, you mainly see groundup construction. Here, the applicant has the ability to repurpose an existing structure. Most of
that being the parking structure, the two stories of it that's out there um today. The application as a whole is going to is we believe is going to improve storm water management, enhance light, landscaping um and also be very very aesthetically pleasing from an
architectural perspective. And the applicant paid a lot of attention um to the Vanderpool aspect of this application in terms of the historic nature. Although the site is not historic or the building is not historic, it was called to our attention that there's a lot of value to this
property from a sentimental perspective and the way that the municipality views this property and what occurred there in the past. So, the applicant worked with your historic commission and your other design professionals to come up with the architecture that you'll see um this evening.
There's also what went into this and you'll see by way of the comments. We worked very diligently with your um uh technical review um uh committees, your planner, your engineer, your fire, police, historic. So, you'll see a lot of the comments I believe we've
addressed successfully and to their satisfaction prior to coming before this board um today. And that was over the last I would say year and the last couple months of really uh refining the site plan. I think what's also important to note are some of the agreement terms
that were part of the settlement agreement with the city. I won't get into some of the I'll say ancillary terms. I'll get more into the terms that deal with the site plan aspects of the project. So the project will provide shuttle service for the residents to and
from the downtown. Those will work in the morning peak hours from 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. and in the evening from about 400 pm to 7:00 p.m. The shuttle service will be run by the developer. There will be no third-party uh service running the shuttle. The developer themselves will
be running the shuttle service. There were very specific landscaping requirements that the city uh required in the agreement. We've uh adhered to those and you'll see that during the course of of the presentation. We are going to contribute um 25 parking
spaces on site for the city to use. And when I say the city, I mean um the city will figure out how they want to use it, whether it's for employees and or other services that the city provides. But there will be 25 spaces and they'll also have access to the shuttle service that the applicant um is uh is providing. And
then we also named the building after the Vanderpool family. So you'll see that when you see the architectural plans um that you have before you and the application as it should be based on the fact that we work so diligently on this ordinance with the town essentially
conforms with all the higher tier of zoning requirements. So we're under on building coverage and lot coverage which is usually a measure of intensity. So we have a we had a percentage that we could adhere we could max out there. We're actually below those. We're below on building height. We're below on floor
area uh ratio and we're significantly over on parking. So, the residential component of this project requires 384 parking spaces because we're reutilizing the existing um parking structure. There's actually 585
spaces. So, we meet the requirement. The 25 above the 384 will go to the city and another 175. It we have the ability under the ordinance to lease those to a third party for some sort of auto dealership or similar type of use to use
on a monthly basis. And that's in your zoning ordinance um as part of the parking requirements. So, I have five witnesses that I plan on calling and I'll just explain who they are and what each one of them is going to testify to. So I have Rob Frude. He'll
he'll start. He's our civil engineer with dynamic engineering. He will go through storm water, the site orientation, the layout, lighting, um and he'll be first. Then I have Merrily Mock. She's our um architect. Um so she
she'll go through the building elevations and the floor plans. Tom Bower is our landscape architect. So, I know sometimes that the civil engineer will do landscaping, but here since it's a pretty um comprehensive project, the applicant did hire to its credit its own
a separate landscape architect to do a planting plan here that you'll see. And then Craig Paraguay is our traffic engineer. And then finally, Matt Flynn um with John Mcdana and Associates is our professional planner. So, like I said earlier, from a from a zoning perspective, we adhere to basically all
the requirements. We do have some signage variances associated with the application. Um there are some um bulk deviations. One is about 0.2 ft that the um setback to JFK Parkway. But the reason for that is just the existing
parking structure just happens to be 02 ft off. Um but the other setbacks all um comply. Just some other operational characteristics that I'd like the board and the public just to have in the back of their heads when they're listening to the application. and the witnesses will go through this, but just so you have it
from the outset. Um, so there's a pool and there's other amenities associated with this multif family um, development. Those will be open from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. And we'll we'll talk more about the intricacies and how they're how they're accessed and security, but I just wanted you to be aware of that. The
fitness center that's on the site, it'll be 6:00 a.m. um to 10 p.m. Garbage pickup and recycling is usually two to three times um, per week. And again, that's private hauler. The applicant has its own service that comes during off- peak times that's
coordinated um with building management. So, we'll go we'll get into more detail on a bunch of those things, but I just wanted the board and the public um to keep that in mind. Um I provided my affidavit of service and publication to the board. I hope Mr. Warner had the ability to go over that. I think it's in order.
>> Is that my queue? >> See, I'm setting you up with the chair's permission. You know, I did have an opportunity as always to review the content of the notice. I did find it to be sufficient. I found and timely served and published the certified mail on and published on July
17th, both at least 10 days prior to this evening. So, the board does have jurisdiction to proceed. I would never let the board proceed without jurisdiction. So, >> thank you. So, Madam Chair, with your permission, I'd be happy to call our first witness. Sure. >> Which is Robert Frer from Dynamic Engineering. >> Madam Chair, if you like, I could swear
on. as well as our board professionals or at least those that are here this evening. Uh so if you will all raise your right hand as well as our board professionals both uh do all of you swear to God or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
>> Thank you all. I think we got all five witnesses there as well. So perfect. >> Okay, >> proceed. >> All right, great. So Rob, if you can just go through your qualifications for the board, licenses held, educational background, and your experience testifying as a civil engineer in the
state of New Jersey. >> Uh, certainly again, uh, Robert Fr is as in Frank R EU D. My professional address is with Dynamic Engineering, 1904 Main Street in Lake Ko, New Jersey. I have a bachelor of science degree in civil
engineering from Lehigh University. I've been practicing civil engineering and land development consulting for over 30 years uh in New Jersey. Um I'm a licensed engineer in New Jersey as well as six other states in the region. Um I've testified in well over 100 municipalities throughout the state,
most in Union County except for Summit. So I'm happy to be here for the first time. >> Welcome. >> And your license is current and a good >> My license is current and I serve as a director and principal with dynamic engineering. >> All right. I'd ask that the board accept Mr. fruits qualifications as a civil
engineer. >> In good standing, you always ask. >> I think you said it. >> All right, we accept you. >> Great. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right, so Rob, why don't we start by um describing the surrounding area and some of the existing conditions um on the property.
>> So, this will be our first exhibit. Got it. Okay. All right. All right. So, Rob, can you just describe the exhibit for the board and who prepared it? >> Uh, so so this is entitled overall aerial map exhibit. It is uh prepared by
our office. It has today's date 727 uh 2026. >> A1 is uh again an aerial map >> just that we're designating it A1 >> A1. >> Again, this is an aerial map pulled by a
uh service called Deermath within the past several months. It identifies uh the current property outlined in yellow. And we've also identified uh several other critical features. Let me see if this will so you have uh the city limits
of Summit uh that surround the property. You have 24 running uh on the right side of the page. So north is generally to the right side of the page with 24 on the north and the ramp from 124 immediately on the north side of the property. you have the mall here. Uh
beyond that, further to the north, uh to the east or below uh the lower end of the property is River Road with the municipal golf course uh beyond and then residential beyond that. And then on the south end is where JFK Parkway and River
Road come together and you have a small connector that helps serve as access through there. And then on the uh west side is JFK Parkway and you have office buildings uh beyond that as well. >> So the property is basically surrounded
by street frontage as well. >> Again, so you have Yeah, you have rightway frontages on all sides of this property. So the next exhibit would be A2. And this is a an enlarged version of the same exhibit showing the property
again outlined in yellow, the same orientation uh with River Road at the bottom of the page. Um what's now just off the page and I uh failed to point out you have uh the Payic River that runs uh to the west of the property
beyond uh the other office use. And there's a tributary of that. What's very unique about this property is there's a tributary of that that runs through the property and ultimately through the golf course. There is a large covert uh underneath the parking structure that carries that water through the property. There's a flood
plane uh governed by the DP uh that runs through there and I'll get into that in a little bit further as I describe uh some of the conditions. Uh specifically, this is block 102 lot one known as 190 River Road. Uh it's 4.4 4 acres. And
again, as Jason indicated, it's in the uh AH33A affordable housing zone. As Jason mentioned, a very unique property in a couple of uh facets. One is it is completely surrounded uh by rightway and road frontage. Number two
is the structure uh that's on the property today. Uh what you see here is an outline of the parking structure building. This is actually the upper floor. There's a lower floor parking uh below what you see in the aerial and then you see uh
the building here that's several stories that rises above the parking structure uh there. Access is solely from River Road at the bottom of the page or to the east side where you come in to uh an intersection into the property. You can go straight off River Road and get into
the lower level of parking or you can go to the right and circulate around. You're basically coming up a ramp getting onto the upper level uh parking here which circulates around and then there's a ramp that comes back down. So, it's one way circulation around but that
is a full movement driveway on River Road. Uh at that point, um the building itself is about uh 52,000 square ft of that 4.4 acres, which is uh 27.6%
coverage. Um the overall parking structure is about 80% coverage on the lot using up most of uh that space. Again, going back to the DP again, there's an unnamed tributary that runs
underneath uh the structure. Uh it's in what was anticipated to be a 40 foot wide easement. It's noted on a a older uh stream encroachment permit that was issued when this project was built. It appears that that easement was not uh recorded. As part of this application,
we would record a 40 foot wide easement uh to allow for potential maintenance if necessary of that. As part of this application, we did make application to the DP and received a flood hazard verification and an
individual permit that would allow this development. As part of that review, they did review the uh flood hazard components of that which are uh twofold. One is there is a floodway that runs through the property. It mirrors the line of the culvert that runs through
the property and what that means is the culvert in a flooding condition uh contains the floodway uh and it's a little bit beyond the banks of the culvert going through there. In addition, there is the flood plane. Excuse
me. >> Will you be showing that air a graphic of of the cover culvert and the easement um today? >> Uh we we can Yes, it's it's contained on the site plan. We can show that. >> Thank you.
>> Continue. Uh there is also a a general flood plane which shows the 100red-year flood or the design flood for the D uh which surrounds a majority of the property. Uh the way it is uh situated with the
elevations of the deck that uh that flood plane encompasses the entire first floor of the parking by a foot or two but the entire second floor is above the flood plane. The entrance from River Road is
below uh the flood elevation, but as you come up the drive on either side, it rises above the flood elevation. And that's important because as we go into redevelopment, especially for residential uses, we need access through there. >> I will see if I can pull up a
site plan. do the rendering. >> So this is the uh site plan first floor. It's sheet six of 21. This is one of the sheets containing the set. So I don't know if you want this marked as an exhibit or >> it need not be marked. >> If it's in the set, we're good.
>> So this is uh as taken from the set again, it's sheet six. >> Just the last revised date on the site plan set >> just so we can confirm for the record. uh June 8th, 2026, revision number six.
>> We're confirmed. Thank you. >> Okay. So, I will This is a a black and white version. I can outline the covert that runs through here. It's uh starts opposite the golf course just south of where the driveway connects. So, connects the the uh drainage pond on the
golf course, comes under River Road, and then makes a slight angle and ends up on the uh northwest corner of the property where it becomes another open channel before it comes under JFK Parkway and ultimately connects further west uh to
the Pacific River. So, what I'm outlining here that comes through uh includes the 40 foot wide uh proposed easement area around that culbert. >> We're going to go back to the aerial map and I just want to give some reference
points for elevation. Again, uh the flood elevation uh through the site is between around elevation 184 to 186. When you're at the river road entrance, that's at 183. So, it's a couple feet below the flood elevation.
As you go to the south side, it's about 190. So, this is the low point on the site is the entrance on River Road. It's about elevation 190 here. JFK Parkway comes down a little bit again, uh 186 to 184. when you're at 124, that's the high
side, that's actually higher uh at elevation 205. For reference, the lowest garage floor is 183. Again, that's a foot or two uh into the flood plane, but the upper garage floor, which becomes our entrance, and I'll show that when we get into this the proposed site plan, is
194.7. So that entire upper floor of parking which also then contains the entryway and the vestibule and the access to the residential is all well above uh the flood elevation. Uh Jason mentioned uh zoning compliance here. Again uh before we get into the
proposed I do want to point out there's one existing nonconformity that's in the northwest corner of the property where the parking structure is 24.8 ft. When the ordinance was written, uh it rounded to 25 ft and we have a slight deficiency. So that's an existing
nonconformity uh that we would request a variance uh to cover. There are uh all primary utilities here, gas, uh electric comes in, water, and sewer. And I'll get into those a little bit when I talk about the proposed, but they're all existing today. There is a
pump on site uh to handle sanitary sewer. Uh and that essentially covers the existing conditions. I'm going to turn now to a uh rendered plan. Uh this was uh prepared by uh Milo Bower Carman, the
landscape architect and dynamic engineering. It contains the site plan, the uh landscape plan of the perimeter of the site superimposed on that and colored. You can also see here uh a plan view of the upper uh floor parking and
the entry vestibule and I'll walk through that uh for the board a little bit to show the development >> and that's A3 >> and this will be A3 and this has a date of uh 727206. So again as Jason mentioned this is a very unique development in that it is
essentially an adaptive reuse of the existing uh structure that's there. While the office component, the the bank office component is dated and obsolete and uh not uh viable for the reuse for this project, the parking structure uh served a lot of value and we're
retaining that parking structure and using that for the proposed development. The lower floor parking structure remain essentially the same. The differences will be and the architect will go through it in more detail. We'll be bringing stair towers down uh so that we have uh ability to get down and up uh
for the residents and also for access. There will also be utility rooms on that first floor that we'll go through and that's the utilities coming in and out of the building as well. Uh as you look at this uh there's a slight modification to the circulation in the site. The driveway on
River Road remains exactly in the same place. That'll come in and out. If you're coming in and you want to go to the lower floor parking, you continue straight just as you would do today. The difference is the drive aisle that runs north south along that river road uh
area. We're widening to make it two-way in both directions. That allows two-way access if you go north to get into the residential parking garage on the upper floor. And that would be uh gated gate controlled access in that area. You can
also uh turn left and come around the south side of the building. As you see the additional color here, and our landscape architect will go through it in more detail, but there's some treatments there that provide a nice entryway into the building. And what that includes is a drop off area as well
as a bypass circulation that goes directly into the parking structure uh that you see there. Also again, gate control. But what that drop off area does is that allows for um ride share to come. that allows for small deliveries like a a mail uh a quick Amazon delivery
to come in uh at the upper level and come through. Anything you see in blue here would be uh services inside the building, lobby, mail rooms, things like that. And architect will go through that in further detail, but that all that is accessed from that upper floor. There are three parking spaces here, including
one handicap accessible parking space for uh quick uh park and drop off. Maybe you're coming in for a leasing meeting or you're coming in to pick up someone. Uh there's also a 24 foot wide uh drive here where you'd be able to stage along the curb or bypass to get through there
as well for uh the drop offs. Along the face of the building that faces River Road, we have a uh more substantial drop uh loading area. It'll be seven feet wide uh and run uh a
length of the building here just south of the entrance. There's also going to be a rollup door there. You'll see that a little bit more detail from the architecturals. That rollup door will handle larger deliveries that'll handle uh moveins, move outs, things like that. So, if you're moving in or out, you would stage here along this area and be
able to park. Typically for apartments like this, we don't see anything larger than say a U-Haul type box truck. An SU30 type truck is what we would show here. So that truck could come in and stage here for deliveries. This is also where garbage will come in and out of the building. So architect will go
through the details of how garbage is collected inside the building. It's maintained inside the building until it's time to be picked up. So when it is time to be picked up, the garbage truck can stage in this area and the containers will be brought out, loaded into the garbage truck and brought
immediately back in. There will be no maintenance or storage of uh garbage containers outside the building other than for immediate pickup. >> And Rob, in your professional opinion, the drive aisle width and the loading space size are adequate for the proposed vehicles that the applicant anticipates
to go to the site. >> Yeah. So the as we've widened the typical drive is 25 ft which is more than sufficient for two-way traffic. Where we have the loading we've widened to 30 feet which includes the 7 foot wide loading zone. Now we do are
requesting uh variance relief for the width of that loading zone which is uh in the ordinance is noted to be 12t wide. Uh that's often if if you were to have a perpendicular type parking stall with loading you need to be able to open doors from both sides next to other uh spaces. When you look at RSIS and you
look at a typical road width with parking on one side of the street, it's 30 feet with a seven foot um parking lane. So, this is consistent with while it doesn't apply, it's consistent with RSIS dimensioning and more than enough for a vehicle to stage here uh for that
loading, for that garbage or for the drop offs uh and get out. >> Total width is 30 including the seven. >> I'm sorry. >> Total width is what? >> 30 feet. 30 feet including the seven >> and seven of it is >> seven of the 30 >> is is the loading correct.
>> Okay. >> Now the other uh modification that we've done along the river road frontage is we've added uh an emergency eress here a little bit further south. If you recall when I discussed the topography here the river road entrance is at the low point
on the site that is below the flood elevation. As we move south, we're rising. As this driveway rises to get to the second floor and River Road rises as you move south, we're getting up and out of the flood plane. Uh this is provided therefore to be an emergency uh ingress
and egress that's outside the flood plane. That was part of our D approval to provide that access point outside the flood plane for the residential use. We do have an application with the DOT uh currently that's under review uh for that access
and that will be gate controlled uh summits emergency responders will have access to that gate if they need to come in from that direction as well. Uh speaking of emergency and first responders uh from a fire perspective we have the ability for the fire truck the
summit fire truck to come in and stage along the south side of the building. then he would be able to turn around and come back out uh the main drive. We've also met with and worked with uh the fire officials over the past several months through the TRC meetings and individual meetings to look at access
from JFK Parkway to the building, access uh from 124 and additional access along river. So there is uh quite a bit of access to the building from all of these road frontages for emergency services and I believe >> Yes. >> Go ahead. No. And I believe
>> I believe there was a letter issued today uh from the fire official confirming that based upon everything we've talked about that this satisfies their concerns. We have added additional stairwells that were some of his requirements in the building as well. >> Right. At some point can you guys drill
down more on all of the ways that that they can access that they can turn around? Can you show those turnarounds and can you show how they can access so that we get comfortable with that? >> Certainly. So we have uh vehicle >> I don't mean you have to do it this second because that's probably not what you had planned but at some point
>> I'm in access and circulation. So that was a good time, >> right? >> Um so we have vehicle circulation plans as part of the plan set. Uh I can >> bring those up >> because there's certain turning radiuses for for fire trucks and um the concern
of the atrium like how are you getting people in and out of the atrium portion? I know that that was an earlier concern. Um, but you know, if if that's not what you're prepared to talk, we can talk about it another night. We can get into that. >> No, this is perfect.
>> Yeah. And we worked very diligently with the fire official. I think you had multiple meetings to have their concerns. >> Right. I mean, I I uh I have them some of some of the correspondents, but clearly we weren't in the room, and it would be helpful to understand and make sure we we understand how you got there
and how you're >> making sure that you >> and that was uh critical concern uh to the the fire department as well to make sure that there was adequate access here. So, this particular exhibit is the vehicle circulation exhibit for the fire truck. It is also sheet 21 of that
revision 6 from June 8th, 2026. So, it's part of the plan set uh that's before you. Uh and that shows the fire truck coming in from River Road being able to make uh essentially 180 degree movement onto the access lane that comes up to
the top and staging uh along that uh front uh drop off area there. There are no overhangs there. uh it's full access uh for a vehicle to be able to come in and out. To get out, it would require a multi-point uh movement to get out, but we've reviewed that with him. And
typically at that point, there's other first responders there to help with traffic control, and that was uh not a concern. We did also review with him uh staging along JFK Parkway in the event of emergency to access upper floors,
staging along 124 in the event of emergency, and again staging along River Road. uh in the event of emergency uh for access to upper floors. We took into account the elevation of the ground, the elevation of the top floor of the building, the reach of the ladder to
show uh that it could get to the majority of the balconies on that upper floor and uh in part of that conversation is when we added an additional stairwell uh to come out. >> Right. That was one of his suggestions >> and Rob just point out where that is just on the just the location. So, the
stairwells. So, here on the north side, we have uh an additional stairwell here. And what you see is there's a door here and an emergency uh there will be a path here that would be accessible uh if you're coming out of the building to get out to
the public right of way this way. And that's uh of appropriate grade for uh for egress from the building. >> Go back to parks. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, no problem. Of course, >> we're back to A3, I guess it was.
>> So, back to A3. And, uh, again, we also looked at uh the garbage trucks and the that SU30 or box truck showing coming in and staging along here and coming out uh the driveways. Again, I'll briefly go through uh the parking
standards here. Again, as Jason mentioned, this is a bit of a unique application because very often we're looking at parking with a microscope to make sure that there is enough parking. We're comparing RSIs maybe to some local, you know, realities of uh increased parking. This is a great
situation where we have an abundance of parking because we're reusing the existing structure. Overall uh the parking structure has 584 parking spaces. When following RSIS standards based upon the breakdown of one, two, and threebedroom units, there
are 384 spaces required. So there are uh 200 additional spaces beyond those required uh by RSIS. Included within those 384 spaces would be the appropriate uh accessible spaces, ADA compliant spaces both on the first
and second level of parking. There will be four on each including uh van accessible spaces. In this case, uh those spaces are approximate to the lobby area here on the south side of that parking uh garage area. Uh we also have a complement of EV
spaces appropriate uh per the the EV statutes of 15% of the uh residential parking that's required which totals 58 uh EV spaces and those are broken down about 50/50 between the two floors. There are 30 on the floor that you see
here uh located uh central to the parking area and uh closer and along that uh uh east wall that's closest to River Road and below that on the lower floor there's another 28 uh EV spaces
and those are put there uh in for purpose and for reason because that is close to uh the water and the pump room so that we can provide uh additional uh fire suppression in that area. Uh that's something we've also discussed uh with the fire officials.
Uh of those 200 extra spaces, as Jason mentioned, 25 are uh as per the the ordinance reserved for uh the city of Summit and 175 would be available uh for uh third-party leasing in accordance with the uh ordinance standards.
>> Just ask a quick question on that. >> Yeah. >> For the 175, I'm assuming those are on the the lowest level of the garage. So has D opined on if I would just imagine just as a layman if you're putting 175 cars leasing them out if that's their
your area for prone to flooding for a x number of year storm how guess how we manage that. So the the D standards for for parking vehicles in a floodprone area are number one that for residential
one space per unit needs to be above a flood elevation. By having uh the parking that we have on the second floor, we far exceed that. So there's at least one space for each unit on the upper floor. When you have parking in the lower floor, what is the standard is it would be signed and noticed uh that it would be floodprone. In this case,
it's only a foot or two. So we don't have the same risk of um the cars floating away that you you know if you were on a a a deeper river bank or something like that. Um so but it's it's all contained within the garage. Uh but
yes they would it would be signed and noticed uh and any lease holders in that area would be aware uh that it would be floodprone. Also included in the RSIS uh criteria baked into the calculations of the 384 spaces is 1/ half of a parking space per
unit for guests. So out of the 384, it's assumed that there are about 100 spaces for guests. From a bulk zoning and criteria standpoint, as Jason mentioned, this is predominantly and mostly compliant with all the bulk standards. The only
deviation as we pointed out is that one area in the northwest corner uh where the existing parking structure is 2 ft uh closer than what the ordinance says for 25 ft. Otherwise, all the setbacks are compliant. The coverages are compliant. Uh we do have a slight
increase in impervious coverage. Uh we're at 80% now. We're going to go to 81.9%. That's really the result of the widening of this drive on the west side to allow for two-way traffic. And what I'll get into in a minute is how we're mitigating that through storm water management, but
that's still below the 85% allowed. From a building coverage standpoint, 45% is allowed. We're at uh 41% uh coverage. Uh our floor ratio is 1.59 where 1.65 is allowed. So all of the bulk criteria
again are satisfied uh with this application. So, it's really pretty unique uh to be able to come in here and talk about a project that has an abundance of parking uh and also satisfies uh the ordinance standards. Uh briefly to talk about pedestrian
circulation today there is sidewalk all the way around the property uh that will be maintained uh in the future. There's also in the southeast corner uh and the southwest corner there are existing crosswalks and access to the south on River Road and also across the
street and we will be adding a crosswalk near the entrance of River Road to get over to the golf course that's added. We'll provide ADA ramps in those areas uh as well. >> I just have another question. I'm sorry. It's okay. Uh, will there be a rapid uh
flashing beacon there or any type of um >> um I'm going to have our traffic engineer talk a little bit more detail about the details of that. I'm not That'll be part of our DOT application as well. >> I have a quick question while you're having your drink. I I see you said a
box truck can get in the driveway. Could a moving van get in there? So, not a typically for a an apartment like this, a one, two, or threebedroom apartment, moving is is within a a U-Haul, which is a >> a 30 foot box truck.
>> That's and >> so no. >> So, no. Correct. >> Okay. >> I had a quick question. Um, you said the emergency access is above the flood plane. That's the one to the left. Is that right? >> Correct. >> Um, and that's pending some sort of approval. Is it you said it got D but
pending DOT >> DOT application is filed and pending. >> Yeah. So we we're we do not have that yet. Obviously that would be a condition of of if this board were to grant approval a condition would be to to secure the DOT approval, right? >> It just takes some time.
>> Okay. So that was filed recently or >> it was filed a few months ago. It just the DOT takes a while to to go through >> and I'll have the traffic engineer go through the DOT permitting of what was required. Okay, sounds good. And then is as it relates to the flood plane, the first level you said is a couple feet in
in in the flood plane. Second level garage is not and the EV parking spaces are mixed between the two. Is that >> they are correct? >> Is there any um concern around the EV parking spaces being in the flood plane? >> Equipment would be out vertically above
any flood elevations. So equipment would not not necessarily be ground mounted. >> Okay. or mounted in such a way that it's it's outside the flood plane >> on the on the ceiling. It's going to be mounted on the wall. >> Uh we haven't gotten into that detail
yet. Um there are different methods to do it. Uh but you know some the interior programming to that level of detail hasn't been fig designed >> but the building department would review that to to mount the building to mount utilities is very common outside of the flood and you have to work with the construction department to do that to
their satisfaction. >> Good. Thank you. Sure. >> So, as part of this application, uh your ordinance has a steep slope ordinance. We have reviewed that. We did submit a steep slope exhibit that shows some very
minor uh steep slopes primarily along this uh eastern property line next to River Road near where the driveway is and along the north side. Uh we do have some disturbance in that those areas. Our disturbance is greater than 1,000
square feet. So, we're requesting uh variance relief for that. Uh the purpose for that again is to be able to widen uh this drive uh that parallels River Road to allow for two-way traffic in that area. Uh but all of this is previously
disturbed area. It will be restored maximum slope 3 to one as uh noted in your steep slope ordinance so that we would uh satisfy the maximum slope when we return vegetation to that area. And you can see all these areas will be well
vegetated uh upon completion. >> So you see no negative impacts for the disturbance of that slope? >> No, it'll all be and it'll all be uh stabilized and it's being reviewed by the soil conservation district who would also review and make sure that it's appropriately stabilized.
>> Thank you. >> I mentioned briefly that we do have a slight increase in impervious coverage as part of this application uh as part of the review by the D which is complete. This does not meet the criteria of a major development because we are less than 1 acre of disturbance
at about 089 acres and less than a quarter acre of uh new impervious. One of the benefits of this application uh the new DP uh criteria that we follow now talks a lot about motor vehicle surface area and uh water quality uh
treatments because we are covering everything you see here that's parking which is much of it is surface parking today exposed to the rain and elements. This will all be covered. So all of our parking will be covered and protected uh from the rain elements. That'll all be
collected on the uh upper roofs and floors. Uh so we had a significant reduction in motor vehicle surface area uh through the site of over half an acre. However, because we are disturbing more than 5,000 square feet, we're subject to this uh soil erosion of incentive
control standards for for storm water, which requires a reduction in storm water for the two and 10ear storm. Uh we've achieved that by taking runoff from the expanded driveway here, providing inlets to collect that on site with oversized pipes and a control
structure. So we'll be controlling the runoff before it enters that road. All that runoff is tributary to that area today. We'll just be reducing that through the outlet control structure before it discharges. um that has been reviewed uh and we did receive our
certification from the soil conservation district on June 2nd who reviewed that storm water also obviously under review of your engineers as well. Otherwise, all the runoff uh occurs as it does today generally by uh drains uh
within the within the parking as it does today or it will be roof drains from the upper floors or the uh outdoor amenity areas uh and collected into a drainage system that's interior to the building and the structure that ultimately goes into that cover uh that exists today.
So, the drainage patterns are very consistent uh with what they uh what they are today. Uh from a utility perspective, as I mentioned, all existing utilities serve the site. Uh we'll maintain uh gas service. We'll propose new electric
service. You can see here just off the edge of the building where uh the access drive uh bunks out from the building a little bit. There are two uh light tan squares and then a rectangular one. Those are two transformer pads and a generator pad that will uh be installed
for the new electric service. uh and the generator service for the building. Uh those areas, our landscape architect will go into a little bit more detail, but there is uh evergreen screening in that landscape area between the drive and river road to provide some screening
uh for the new uh electric service and generator. We'll also be proposing new water service into the building, including fire service for the proposed building and sanitary sewer service uh for the building. Uh if you've read the review letters, uh there were some discussions
about sanitary sewer. We've had a lot of ongoing discussions with the city's engineering department uh about the sanitary sewer for the site today. There is a pump on site uh for the site that pumps out to River Road and ultimately goes uh south along River Road to a
gravity system. We've uh performed ongoing investigations working our way uh downstream, if you will, in that area. First we check the pump, then we check the immediate uh downstream force man. And we're now looking a little bit further down the line. What we've learned to date is there's adequate
capacity from a treatment standpoint. We're in the process of continuing the investigation to make sure that uh the lines that get from us to uh the ultimate uh treatment area have adequate capacity for conveyance. Um again those studies are ongoing and work working in
close uh close quarters with your engineering staff and the department of public works uh to make sure that uh those studies are to their satisfaction. From a lighting perspective, uh what we've done is we've looked at the parking and modeled the parking lot lighting. Again, all of that is interior
to the building, but we want to make sure that we have adequate lighting there. We also have a series of 19 fixtures that exist along uh the drive that parallels Rover Road and then out into the uh circulation drop off area at
the south end of the property. Uh those light fixtures will be adjusted in temperature to uh match the requirements of uh the ordinance uh of 3500 Kelvin. That eliminates one of the variances that was noticed in your engineers and
planners letter. Um otherwise we do have uh a variance for maximum illumination at the property line. We're at about 1.3 foot candles. That's in the area where the driveways are along River Road to make sure that we have adequate illumination for safety along River Road. Um.1 foot candles is permitted,
but in this area we're adjacent to the road and it's an important factor uh for safety. We do satisfy the DOT's criteria of 0.2 at the curb line. So it it diminishes quickly as you get past the property line to the curb line to satisfy the DOT. But then in that area
where there's a driveway, it's important to have enough lighting to be uh to be safe. >> And Rob, that won't in your opinion negatively impact any surrounding properties. >> No, you have River Road and the golf course immediately adjacent. So there's no negative impacts. There are no
residents uh in the immediate area at that point. >> I just have a question. Um, if you were to go to the first um, road of residential, which I forget the name of that street, >> is it Iris? >> Iris. Yeah. How is it going to impact
the Iris residence? >> Um, because I would imagine there's been nothing there forever and now all of a sudden we're, you know, it's how would like do you have any photoometric um, >> lighting plan? >> So, I will go to I can go to the lighting plan, but first I just want to
go to the aerial. So um >> this is A1, >> right? So this is the uh overall aerial plan. The property is outlined in yellow. Then the next yellow dash line is 200 feet. So probably 4 to 500 ft is when you get to the first residential
south. And we're talking about the driveway that is another probably 250 ft north of that south property line. So we're 7 just by eye I'm guessing about 700 ft uh at least from those
residential areas to that driveway. Um and again for context we have not done a study of existing conditions that is a driveway today and I imagine that there is some level illumination at that driveway when the uh and for that matter the entire uh parking area and upper
deck probably is illuminated and that is exposed uh because it's not interior. So, we'll be taking the majority of this area and bringing that inside uh in parking area and significantly reducing the u sort of the visibility of where that parking is from those residents.
>> The fixtures have shields and >> so all the fixtures are an LED energy efficient light. They're downward focused so there is no glare uh from the fixtures and they're 15 feet high which is within uh the ordinance uh standard there. Will there be any like photoometric
renderings that that we can see from that area or if you haven't done it? I understand. I was just curious. >> Uh we did do a lighting study that's part of the application package. I don't know if they have that one >> immediately handy. >> We can get it. It is part of the site
plan set though, the phototrics. And that's what shows that just in that area where the driveway is is where it gets over uh the.1 ft gandles at 1.3. Otherwise, we're compliant. So, at the south end of the property
where we're closer, but I wouldn't say close to the residence, we satisfy the ordinance standards. >> Yeah. And like Rob was saying earlier, we're at that 1.3, which isn't that high to begin with, but when you get to the curb line, it gets reduced to 0.2. >> Right. And that's a that's a DOT requirement. So we're at 02 foot
candles. Uh full moon on a clear night is half a foot candle. So we're well below a moonlit night. Not to mention the constructive interference of street lights and things like that that are in the area. So in my opinion there there would be no uh noticeable
uh light effect from a the driveway at the midpoint of the property for the residents to the south. lights from the apartment. >> What about like taking the driveway out of that? What about if every apartment had their lights on? That's sort of where I'm thinking.
>> So, we have not modeled that. >> Okay. >> Um that would be in this case maybe not different than if the office had lights on at night. >> Okay. Um, but our architect can probably go into a little bit more detail about uh the type of glass that's used, things
like that, and how that would be managed. Um, these lights, uh, I'll just go back to the A3, which is the rendering, the lights that'll exist on the the perimeter area here on the access. These will be on from dust to
dawn uh, for security and safety for residents that may be coming and going. um our landscape architect and architect can get into more detail about uh the lights at the building and the area uh outdoor amenity areas and those lights which will be controlled and they will
not be on all night. >> Sorry, I had a quick question on the just the back to the crosswalk. Um it just goes to the municipal golf course. I mean, I I can't recall. Is there sidewalks over there? Like, what's the intention other than crossing the
street and there's just the municipal golf course and then residential like around the corner. There's not really any business or school right there. >> So, there that was a request um as part of the uh resoning and review process to
add that. Um so, we're certainly amendable to doing that. as far as access to really the activity in the residents to the south, those neighborhoods to the south, >> right? >> There is existing uh and you can see it here on the uh southeast corner. There
is existing sidewalk and crosswalks that come to the middle island and then continue south along that area. So, there's connective sidewalk to that area further south. >> But the crosswalk goes >> our the crosswalk that that we're adding uh goes directly across River Road to
the golf. >> Yeah. My concern is kind of like around what you were talking about like adding a crosswalk because it's going to encourage people to cross down there. It's kind of busy on River Road these days. There's a lot of development going on. So even though it's helpful to have a crosswalk and people are crossing, it's also encouraging people to cross on
a very busy road. So I don't know what the answer was to the beacons or or whatnot, but just generally um 198 units people crossing the road down there at the end of River Road before you access 24 and things like that. just something that I don't have the answer, but >> I don't have the answer either. I just
know that we've specifically spent a lot of time as a city putting in sidewalks in that area for that reason because it is I don't know if you've noticed, but you go in one way in the golf course and it's almost like not the right way. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> Um so I don't know. I have to put more thought into it. The one thing I was also thinking of is I was driving by a few times today and on the I guess it's the what's the I guess it's the JFK Parkway side. It's almost like the sidewalks are sort of invisible now.
Like they sort of um and I'm sure it's just because nobody's used them. Why would anybody use them? I'm assuming you're going to enhance that piece of those sidewalks and make them as um as wide and nice as the ones that are kind of currently there or is that not part of the plan? Yeah, in this case, I think
some of the uh over story of the the tree area here is just covered here from a visibility standpoint, but the sidewalk is there and we'll we'll make sure that it's maintained >> because I would I would imagine if I was living here, I'd probably want to walk over to the mall or I'm not sure what I'm not sure how much thought has been
put into that, but I guess that's just >> Yeah, we could I'll have the traffic engineer address it because there might be some DOT requirements associated with some of these items. So, I'm glad that you're asking the questions now prepared for more. >> Yeah. I was looking at it today and it's just I was thinking to myself like how do you how do you navigate people around
here, you know? >> Yeah. I mean, it's like surrounded by I would say pretty busy roads. Not necessarily highways, but access to highway, right? >> Well, just looking at uh Google Google Maps here, there's no sidewalk along the golf course side of the highway. So,
you're dumping pedestrians across uh a crosswalk and there's no sidewalk that would link the golf course to the rest of town. >> I don't think so. Sorry. Go ahead. >> Yeah, I think that that's a a secondary consideration is just being able to get residents who potentially might want to
use the golf course to get to that side. again the the primary and I just went back on the screen to uh A2 just to be able to see a little bit broader perspective of what's happening but the the the primary sidewalk coming from the site uh and there is connectivity at the
south end and you'll see it on the site plan but there is sidewalk that connects to uh all the sidewalks on River Road to the south that come from the site. So again if you're coming out of the and I guess I I'm flipping back and forth here. I apologize, but if you are coming
out of the lobby area of the building, you can see and and our landscape architect can probably present this a little bit better than I can, but you come out of the lobby area here and we've created a a a sense of connectivity here and you can see the
sidewalk stretching from the lobby across uh our entrance and connecting to that sidewalk system. So, I think this is a a stronger connection of sidewalk than what comes across River Road. That's really from the lower level, and that provides access if you're going to
the golf course, but I think the stronger connectivity is coming out of the lobby and coming off that front uh walkway area. >> Yeah, I think we agree with you stronger. We're a little concerned about >> Can I make a suggestion? >> Yeah, we'll do we'll address it with the
>> Not not even that. the the crosswalk was something I believe that was requested at some point that we were reviewing it. We're we're indifferent to whether we provide it or not in terms of the we thought we were providing it because it's something that the city wanted, but we can speak to your board planner and
engineer and discuss it and if the professionals think believe it's required, we could we could keep it. If the consensus is it really isn't necessary, unless DOT or another jurisdiction feels it's required, we can eliminate it. But we can >> Yeah, let's table it and talk. >> The overall goal would be pedestrian
safety around the whole site. >> No, of course. >> Getting to the MUN, walking along the MUN to get back into your main entrance, all of that is integrant and let you know collectively what we come up with. That's great. Yeah, Harry. >> Thank you.
>> Sure. So, the last thing I want to uh point out tonight for the board and then you'll hear a little bit more from our landscape architect and architect or some of the signage that's proposed here. Uh we have uh two freestanding
signs. Uh one of them uh is up on the corner of uh where you're coming in off River Road and the other is at the south end. and you'll get a a really good perspective of this from landscape architect is really actually built into
the wall. There's some nice features there uh that you'll see in pers some perspectives from him. There also a series of uh building mounted signs. Um one of them is a smaller one over the entrance on the south side. Uh we have
an identifier of uh the Vanderly over the garage and then there's a sign up on the building on the north side uh that you'll see from 124. And again, you'll see those on the elevations, but just want to give some perspective from a site standpoint as to where they are uh
so that the board has awareness of that. And then there will also be some temporary signs that we're requesting uh during lease up. Uh one of those would be uh on the River Road driveway here and one is at the again at the intersection uh excuse me at the
intersection with JFK here. uh just identifying uh the property for lease up as well as some uh signs on the building. Uh again, those are temporary signs. You'll hear and see of those from our architect uh and our planner as well.
>> Okay. >> All right. And Rob, you have the chance to review um the board professional review letters. >> I did. Yes. >> All right. And if there's any outstanding technical comments that you didn't address during testimony, can we comply with the board engineers letter? >> We can. I I think I've put as much of I
as I can into the testimony to cover that. Uh anything else that I haven't touched on is probably technical and we would certainly comply with unless there's any uh questions in that. >> I'd like if you'll indulge me to have Marie fill in anything that she doesn't think we covered so that everybody has
the benefit of that information. >> So um yeah, I think we went over site circulation. I think he adequately disc um you know discussed that with deliveries, garbage pickup, emergency vehicles um being able to get around there. Um
you're um still working on your um your DOT permits. Um they just take time to get through. Um your ADA parking spaces um everything will be compliant with ADA. um both your parking spaces, your access to those
parking spaces, traffic um traffic, I don't know if this is something you can um talk about, but um do you know how um you're going to be managing the guest spaces versus the um city reserve
spaces and the car dealership spaces. Is there any way that you're going to have an agreement with that? Are they going to be signed? >> The spaces for the city will be signed. I think they're designated on the plan. >> They're they're designated on the plan on the first floor. >> And um
>> excuse me just a second. Just make sure you're sharing the mic because people >> Sorry. So people at home can hear you. The city spaces are designated on the plan and the city will have access to use those via a key fob or whatever security measure that the building
implements. And then same thing with the um with the spaces if they are leased and they're all on the first floor as Rob indicated um during his testimony. >> Okay. Um we talked about the EV charging spaces that you're still working on uh
where the equipment's going to be. That'll be part of that. That level of granular detail will be coming out later on with your um building permits. We talked about the um 7 foot wide loading zone. Um I I think what I heard
was that um a lot of times they're wider loading zones because of um truck doors opening and that's not necessarily something that's going to be um happening too much at this. There's not a whole lot of deliveries. Am I right on that?
uh the frequency is relatively rare, the move in and move outs. Yeah. And it would be one scheduled one at a time. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And speaking with the applicant that has, you know, thousands of units and many projects throughout the state as everybody knows um they schedule these through property management that
um dictates which what type of vehicle can be used on the property and they're done one in the morning and one in in the evening during off peak hours. So property management really controls a the type of vehicles and the timing that they can be done and when they can be done.
>> Okay. I think I think that's that's helpful to know. Sure. So thanks. >> Um you have the site triangle shown on there. Um and I think maybe I can ask some questions of the traffic engineer about that later on. Um
could you talk um maybe about the construction staging or um you know maybe where the contractors are going to park? Is that something that you can discuss? >> I I can give an overview and I think if there's more detail that you're looking for, we we can get into that. Uh but
generally um again, you have the existing first floor parking that's there today. um that would be available for contractor parking uh while everything's happening vertically above that um as well as staging. So we don't expect everything would be housed on
property basically. Okay. >> Uh during construction. >> Okay. So um do you anticipate any like pedestrian detours at all on the sidewalks? >> I don't think the sidewalks will be impacted. No. Everything would be inside the property. >> Okay.
other than, you know, minor uh interruptions when the the new entrance is being uh constructed, things like that, but nothing longterm from construction. >> Um, let me see. Um I there's some tandem parking spaces in the the parking garage. Um is there
any way how how are they going to be assigned? Um would they be you know the same unit would have tandem spots so that they can communicate with each other? You got to move your car so I can get out or >> Yeah. So that's handled through the the management leasing office and and they
would go together. So, if you were a uh apartment user, a couple that had uh multiple vehicles, you would be able to lease tandem spaces together. It would not be to two individuals. >> Okay? >> They would go uh together to a unit.
They covered a lot of it. So, I'm still going through it. Yeah, >> you know, in our letter, um, just to clarify, we had talked about, um, getting access to that, um, that culvert that's underneath the building, and there was discussions with the city
about, well, how's the access going to happen? Um, but it sounds to me like this is a a large covert. It's not it's not just a small pipe under the ground. Could you talk about that a little bit? Uh certainly. So
>> and and Marie, if I may, um the one thing I I know that DCS hasn't submitted any comments, but we have to fill that gap somehow. Um we we have to get information from the city on how the city is going to maintain access to that covert and
there's >> or how the applicant's going to maintain >> or how the sorry but but the but the city should still the city should still be able to access it, I believe. And without DCS opining, it puts us in a little bit of a so we have to make sure that we can request DCS to if they're
having informal conversations or whatever, we have to document it properly, I guess. >> Yeah. >> And that that's fine. I mean, if anything, it'll be a benefit over what exists today because we'll be able to delineate the access, give an easement to the city, figure out how it' be maintained both by the developer and by the city if needed. So, we'll be able to
work out those details. So, if anything, it's going to be way better than it is now. But Rob, we can continue to work with the um with the city on that issue, right? >> Absolutely. And again, so it it's a significant covert like we could walk down there side by side through this
covert. So there's really access from either side uh for uh people to get get in there. Um and as discussed, we would be providing an easement that would give the city the backup rights to get in, but ultimately maintenance of that would
be on the property owner. I I my one question is any any idea why the golf course pond is always overflowing is that if that culvert's so big what's the problem? So I don't know particulars on why the golf course >> it's got to be the culvert starts right
I mean the golf course it's pond is here and it starts to back up typically from Kubrook Parkway the last probably 20 houses or so >> and I'm just curious I mean we don't have to answer it now but I I think that that area is constantly you know it's the first one it's the
first thing to flood is that area. So, I don't know how that conversation in the culvert um but I'm sure there's smart people in the professionals that can figure it out, but it's a it's a real serious concern for the residents down there have spent many hours. >> So, we did do a study of the area, okay,
and a study of at least our reach of it. We went back to the golf course, but we didn't study particularly the the mechanics of what and when things are happening on the course, but we did look >> at our property as to what was happening. We went as far as the Payakic River and I think a lot of the flooding situation happens. The Payak River
throughout the area is is you know over overflowing right so that becomes a lot of the source of flooding. Um but this was reviewed in detail by the D uh to confirm why and how it operates and it's essentially an existing condition. Um
we're doing, you know, our part to improve it by um by number one providing the the long-term maintenance and the and the easement, but also by reducing our storm water contribution to that. >> How's the condition of it? >> I'm sorry. >> How's the condition of it?
>> Uh I'm not intimately aware of the condition right now, but we have been doing some studies of it to make sure that it's it's structurally sound. >> Yeah. And one of the items that we've been talking about with your professionals and we've done it, we cleaned it. So I don't know if that's going to help as well. So I don't know
if previously in the past what the maintenance was in terms of debris, but the developer has cleaned it, which is a good thing. And then the video of it was sent to your board engineer. So they videoed it to see what the what the condition of it was. So your >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. If it was Did you receive that? If
it wasn't sent to you, then it might have just been sent to the city. So I'll do we'll make sure you get it also. >> Thanks. Okay, that's good. >> So I share I share the concern about this watershed u upstream just a bit you have repeated flooding and yes the
existing use is just dumping all the water into that culvert. Um, I guess one question is under the proposed and now delayed D regulations that were supposed to take effect this month, would they have required
additional remediation on the site by the developer? >> Uh, not not really. Um, so the regulations that have been delayed by the D, uh, their primary focus was on the coastal areas and the increased
floodation there. There were also some minor components related to um green infrastructure and water quality but the the previous round of regulation changes is what uh we're really looking at which is it's it's increased the funnelation
by two feet that we designed towards it also looks at more intense storms but again this is a considered a minor project so we really fell below a threshold because it's such a minor project to be reviewed to those right >> yeah I I guess be because of the existing problems in that wershed said,
"Is there an opportunity? Did you consider other mechanisms, dry wells or other retention mechanisms on the property?" >> So, the architect will go over, Rob, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's some green space on the on some of the decks and things of that nature, like green roof type features that we have
that haven't been accounted for, Rob, in your analysis. Correct. >> That's right. So, >> I was trying to scan for those. >> I know. I'm ahead of you. I know. I hear what you're saying. It's a valid point. So, so the architect will go through those as well as maybe the landscape architect in a little bit more detail,
but there are areas on above the ground that were used to facilitate the retention that you're talking about. >> So, what this plan doesn't show is that as you get to the upper levels, there are some some prominent outdoor amenity spaces that include some landscaping and
some green roof type uh structures. Um we haven't accounted for that in our stormwater calculations but they certainly exist to provide additional mitigation. >> Right. So ours are more conservative by not accounting for those. >> Correct. >> Question. Can can anybody just for the
benefit of the public I know we're calling it a minor site plan but can you go over and and just explain to the board the differences and the criteria that I think has recently changed for the major development. So just to be clear, this application is is a major site plan. From the city's perspective,
you're you're talking about his response about the D. >> Yes. And the and the TSS. >> Okay. >> I just want to be clear. I meant to ask make sure you have a mic. >> Certainly. So uh major and minor project from a a stormwater standpoint, whether
it's in the in your ordinance or in the D standard, is an acre of disturbance or a quarter acre of new impervious coverage. specifically focused on motor vehicle surface area. Uh so as I mentioned we have uh an increase in
imperous coverage that is less than an acre. So that does not uh cross the threshold of being a major development. We also have uh less than a quarter acre. We actually have a reduction in motor vehicle surface area by virtue of covering the majority of the parking lot
today. So that's a significant improvement from a a water quality standpoint. All of that water is now whether it's on the green roof or on the general roof structure collected as opposed to being on the motor vehicle surface area which is where you get more of the silt and debris. So all that's
going to be handled through interior maintenance of the of the parking garage. Um so that's a a improvement there. Um so again we're below that threshold. So, as a minor project, we're really focused on the the soil conservation district standards, which is managing the two and
10ear storm, not the 100red-year storm, which would be added in uh with the D with the higher ST with a major development. >> So, if you what about uh the fact that it's a parking garage that you're you're so you're taking off sorry you're taking off the top taking off the the office
building portion. Does that count towards one of those criteria because that area is being reconfigured? I you might be able to I think you >> substantial change, >> right? Like I I thought that the new rules for if the criteria didn't meet uh with with
like the renovation, but maybe if you didn't catch it, Marie, then >> Oh, no. I I you're talking about something different, right? Like a substantial improvement to to a to a house. You'd have to raise it up. >> No, no, no. I was just I'm talking specifically about the four criteria for it. It's okay.
>> Yeah, you you might be actually doing what I used to do, which is conflating storm water, >> right? I think you might be right. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, I used to do that. >> And this is also very unique because >> I apologize. >> Our our ground disturbance is really limited to that that driveway that's
parallel to River Road. The parking structure, we're not >> taking anything out of the ground. We're not doing ground disturbance. That's usually a significant criteria. >> Right. Thank you. >> Uh, other questions
for the engineer? I do. >> One regarding the Sierra was I saw the fire department's memo from earlier today that you're going to add a fourth stairwell. Is that right? >> Yes. Uh, elevators. Still three elevators. >> Uh, I'm going to defer to the
architects. Not 100% sure how many elevators are going to all to the garage or or upper floor. So I'll let the architect confirm that when we get >> I don't want to misspeak. >> When you have the the traffic person
engineer, are they going to discuss anything further with regard to your loading and offloading area or is that just your engineer? >> Do you want him to? >> I do have a few more questions about that. Um, >> that's fine. No, if you say what they
are, if Rob can't answer them, I can always defer to the traffic >> engineer. Right. I'm just trying I want you to try and help us understand how we're not going to have a problem if you have a garbage truck sitting there and then there's a fire and then the fire truck has to get beyond him because isn't the garbage getting picked up
right there too at your seven foot width? >> Yeah. I mean, yes. >> And moving vans if you know are going to be at that seven foot. What's right behind? It's just parking right behind there, right? >> I'm trying to get out. How can we get
this a little wider so that we don't have problems? >> So, one of the challenges here is this is an existing condition, right? We've got a the rightway and the building exists today. So, we can't move either of those. Um the the turning radius
here, we want to maintain that so we can make a 180°ree right turn on the river road without crossing the center line. So this this dimension or this radius here is kind of critical to doing that. That's one of the reasons that we are seeking the relief. But when you have 30
ft and you have a car staged in that seven area, 7 foot area or a garbage truck stage in that area, you still have more than enough room for cars to move in one or even both directions past that. >> Um out of 30 feet, you can fit >> What's the height of the of that um that
section of the garage? Well, that that's all open. None of that is covered if that's your question. >> No, no, no. Beyond the seven feet like towards the building. I'm trying to think of other ways to get your some of your vehicles out of the the
driveway. I'm just brainstorming for a second. What other uh I'll just put it this way. Any other ideas that were contemplated when you're trying to figure out where to put loading and offloading and garbage and moving vans? >> So, it it's a combination. >> It's a really tough site. I get it, you
know. So, what were what were your other options? Because it seems like quite the choke point if you have an emergency situation and you happen to have the garbage truck there. You happen to have a couple moving vans there. I know you said there'd only be one, but you never know. Um,
>> so good question and I a couple things. One is where the loading area is is a combination of interior and exterior programming. So, we want to make sure that that loading area is immediately outside of an area inside the building where you have a service
elevator that can move stuff vertically uh within the building uh as well as in and out as well as the trash room and things like that. So, that was considered as part of it as well. Um, I would say if there were an incident and
a U-Haul was parked there for a move in or a move out or a garbage truck was there. Um, they would probably have time to get out of the way before a fire truck, you know, as the as the call goes out before the fire truck gets there, we can clear the space. Uh, but again, it's
30t wide, so to get a fire truck pass there if there were someone staged there. Uh, there should be enough room. >> Yeah. And just just on operational sorry just operationally as we indicated the property management would in would uh dictate when the move in and move
outs can go. >> Um in your scenario of like well what if there was a mistake the just remember the the length of the loading zone is what's oversized. So they would be back to back. It wouldn't impede the width of the drive aisle.
They would be back to back because the length of that loading zone is fairly large. But I think the more critical aspect of it is the fact that the developer that not only develops it but then manages the property themselves. >> Um, in this situation, we're lucky to have that. >> They'll dictate the type of vehicle and
the time. >> But if you want the traffic engineer to maybe get into more of like the technical maneuverability of that, it >> just to make the board feel, >> you know, get some graphics, show us how it's going to work. >> I understand. >> So we can get comfortable that that's not going to be a problem. >> I understand. So, we we'll we'll we'll
make sure that that's addressed. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Yeah, we can ask what's the clearance required to get into the upper level of that parking garage. >> The the clearance at the at the entrance, >> right? >> Ceiling height. Yeah, >> ceiling height. Uh I'll defer that to
the architect. I'm not 100% sure what that is >> exactly. So, you're showing I assume is the upper level of the parking garage and the building above would is this is access to the upper level on the south face of the building. Correct. But the building is above it. So depending on how high the building is,
you know, something may or may not fit in there, be it a van or a box truck or whatever. >> We would not expect a box truck to get inside the building. >> Okay. >> Yeah. There would be no loading of Sorry. Right. >> There would be no loading or unloading of any vehicles inside the parking
structure. It it would all occur either at the loading zone or if it was a small smaller vehicle, they would pull up right in front of the building like a FedEx truck or UPS, drop it off at the package room or the concierge and then just just be on their way. So that that's part of the answer to
your to your question on how you're dealing with the site is that the ceiling heights for the parking deck are too low to have any any deliveries, any garbage pickup, any of that sort of thing within the building, which can happen in other sites sometimes like in
in the city or whatever. That's that's what's part of your conundrum is I have to do it on this street way. I would say, and I've done a number of projects with with this applicant, >> this is typical for how they have
deliveries. And obviously, every site's different, right? But the usually loading and deliveries is outside the building. You don't have a garbage truck. You don't have a move in move out inside the building on these product projects. >> Yeah. >> We're just trying to think of other ways
to diminish the congestion there. That's all. >> Yeah. A related question kind of is is it the emergency exit that's not in the flood plane? Is that not the actual exit because it's too close to the loading? Like why wasn't why why is the only entrance exit in a flood in a flood
plane if there's an emergency exit that's not why would it >> right like in our traffic I'll get into a little bit from DOT uh standpoint we have one one primary entrance >> but why isn't it the one that's not in the flood plane >> like you're moving it uh very close to
the >> to the loading area right that you're >> well no offsite you're moving it very close to the intersection here and the radius here but our traffic go through the numbers. >> So, it's just like what's the separation of the situation intersection? Yeah. So, either in a flood plane or too close to
an intersection had to pick one of them, right? >> Right. The the traffic engineer can indicate that there was DOT has requirements for clear for how close a driveway can be to the intersection. And I'll I'll have him go over that. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Sorry, beat that dead horse. But, um, I
think it's really an important part of the discussion and and if you can mock it up and and show us the turning radius for the fire trucks and all of that, that would be very helpful. Thank you. All right. So, it is 10:20.
>> So, yeah, >> I think we got through the engineer. Are we good? >> Oh, yeah. I >> We have to have uh questions from the public. Yeah, I I was speaking with Joe today as well as Ryan. I think it'd be helpful for the board. Um whether we go
as a quorum, we don't have to notice it or Joe, maybe you can talk a little bit. I think it'd be helpful for those of us who can to go down and see it. Um I'm a C person and I think it would just be helpful. Probably make the meetings a little shorter. So, you know, I don't know if that would be possible, but I think it'd be helpful.
>> Yeah, the the applicant can provide access to the building. Um I can coordinate that through um Mr. Warner or through um Austo, however you want me to handle that. Um I'm happy to do that. Uh >> thank you. >> I think it would be easier to do it without a quarum going to the um but
I'll leave I'll leave that to Mr. Warner to to indicate how >> Well, you know, although the the board will make that decision whether the board wishes to I won't make the decision whether the board wishes to do it as a uh >> a quorum publicly noticed site visit,
which is cumbersome. Um, but that's the board's prerogative. Uh, or to do it uh individually or in smaller non-quarm groups. >> Three or less, right? >> Uh, four or less. >> Yeah. Because you're a nine member. >> Yeah, we're a nine member board. So, five would be a quorum. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. >> But, um, you can let me know how you want to handle that and I'll speak to Mr. Warner and we can provide the access. >> I'll liazison. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> I won't concierge but I'll leazison.
Great. Great. Okay. So, are we good? We're gonna close up this part of it and ask the public if they want to ask your engineer any questions. >> Sure. >> It's too late to ask. >> Great. >> State your name.
We have to do address >> and address. Yes. >> Hi, I'm Laney Seager and I'm a resident at 60 Canoe Brook Parkway. >> Yep. S like Sam, E like Edward, G like George, E A R.
So, we have several questions from the community. Um, the first of which is should that covert overflow or in a flooding experience, what is the plan to protect the neighborhood beyond the MUN >> to I'm sorry, to protect
>> to protect the neighborhood beyond the golf course. >> So, good great question. There was an extensive review of this and and one of the things we did here was we went through a long review with the D before we even came here to make sure that we
satisfied some flood protection standards. Uh so we went through that and we did a study of it and we have made sure that we have clear access. We're going to provide the secondary easement over the covert. we've cleaned it and we'll have uh continual maintenance of that cover uh to improve
that area um throughout and we're also meeting the the stormwater criteria uh for our site on there as well. If I may, and I don't want to interrupt your questioning, but would the maintenance be something that uh as a condition of approval should it be approved would be
stipulated to be recorded with the county clerk's office like a storm water oper and M manual or is that >> Yeah, I mean it's not statutory like the on andm manual in the stormwater rules, but if the board felt that that was an appropriate mechanism in addition to a
condition of approval, I can talk to the applicant about that. But that wouldn't be uncommon. I see green roof deed restrictions now being implemented by boards. I see other sort of maintenance agreements requiring recording. But I can speak to the developer. But yeah, I think that's something that we would consider. >> We have done maintenance agreements.
Murray, >> right? Like and as he said, it's, you know, they're not statutoily required, but you know, he can talk to his applicant and see if they're >> Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't think it's a unreasonable request if that's what the board does request. Okay, thank you.
>> Sorry about that. That's okay. Wanted to jump on it while I got it. >> Yeah, thank you. Um, our neighborhood floods quite often and uh we have several water main blank uh water mane breaks between the streets of River Road
and on Woodland uh up through Karen Way. We had one just this past Saturday which cut off water supply to many of the residents in the neighborhood. We've had probably one a month in the last year. And I'm wondering if your developer has
taken into consideration the potential impacts of 190 plus toilets flushing that weren't there previously impacting the water system. >> Uh so we do have an application pending with with the water utility and part of that will to make sure that there is
adequate service uh for the site not only for the regular domestic uses but also for fire protection. So that's part of this project is to to work with the water utility. >> Okay. We had one just this past Saturday and every time the water main breaks
several of us lose access to clean water. So we're concerned about that many toilets. Um, additionally, you mentioned that it slopes down towards the MUN on the river roadside and considering uh
how much flooding we have in the community, particularly directly in front of the municipal golf course on Canoe Brook Parkway, has that been taken into consideration? The impact of the slope into the golf course into the neighborhood?
>> So, it it does slope. River Road does slope towards uh the low point where our driveway is, but ultimately everything from that area from our site flows >> if not through the culvert west towards the Payic River. So everything is flowing away from the golf course and
away from the residential community. >> Okay. The top top not only your culvert but also the topology >> the ground topography. Correct. >> Am I saying it wrong? >> But Rob just to answer the question because I think it's important on the topography, excuse me.
>> We are reducing in certain storms and overall this will be a benefit in terms of how the site is being designed to the surrounding area. Correct. >> And then also you mentioned similar to your comment about why is the loading
and the garbage truck on the river road side of the property. Am I understanding correctly that that's where that will occur? >> That is correct. Yes. So, in front of the MUN, have any has anybody from your team visited the neighborhood directly on the other side of the MUN?
>> I I I've been through the neighborhoods yet. I'm not as familiar obviously as you are with the neighborhoods. >> Okay. So, has anybody determined if that will impact those neighbors whose backyards are the municipal golf course? If you've been through the neighborhood, it should be quite evident that you can
see this building and the property from our neighbors backyards in their bedroom windows. And you know, why was it chosen to put the garbage, the deliveries, the moving in and moving out on the side of residents versus the other side on JFK
Parkway where there would not be residents that would be impacted. Uh so I guess first primarily the reason that that side of the building was selected is because that's where the entrance is and so that works functionally so that it minimizes
circulation around the property and additional traffic. Um but also um the again the the trash pickup is just a couple times a week. The moveins move they're going to be relatively infrequent. They won't be happening on
top of each other. Um, so it won't be that noticeable. And what you see on the plan on the screen, our landscape architect can talk more about it, is substantial improvements to the frontage, uh, landscaping here that'll help, uh, not only soften but screen uh, what's going on there,
>> right? I mean, it doesn't seem substantial to you and I recognize that, but if it's your backyard, that's substantial potential noise, potential movement at times that there is not normal movement. And I'm just wondering, has anybody visited our neighborhood to
determine if it's going to impact noise or anybody's, you know, ability to see that or hear that? >> So, noise-wise, we have to comply with the D regulations and the city's ordinance for noise. So, we're not allowed to get a variance from that. So,
we have to comply. Um, so that's that's that's the answer on that one. And then like I said earlier and I understand the concern um the move in moveouts will be very infrequent especially once the building is leased up and then also uh the garbage pickup it's private hauler
so the applicant can work with the board on timing that would be like I said it's two three times a week but we could work on the with the board on timing that you know the board feels is the least disruptive to the area unlike now where you have you know an office building that would have more traffic more
deliveries um that doesn't have those restrict restrictions because we're coming in front of the board. We can actually now implement those as conditions of approval that may not exist have existed for a prior project or if you just retended the building the way that it was. >> When you say infrequent move in and move
outs, are we to understand as a community that there'll be a requirement of one-year leases or >> Yeah, I can get that answer. I believe that that's the case. But when I said infrequent, I what I said earlier um was that they would be um twice per day at the most. one in the morning and one in
the evening and I'll double check that and confirm that. And to your question about the leases, I'm happy to get that answer for you as well. >> So infrequent isn't what is we don't know what that means. No more than twice a day, but it could be every day. >> Sure.
>> Okay, just to clarify. Thank you. Okay, I think that's it. >> Thank you. >> Do you have any other questions from the public? I have a question >> to make sure we hear you at the microphone. Your name and your address, please.
>> I'm Carly Movie. I live at 7 Iris Road. >> M as in mom. U L V as in Victor. E Y. >> So this might not be a question for the engineer and if I'm not here at the next session because I'm guessing this is going to flow over. just maybe more of a
thought starter, but just some questions of the traffic studies on River Road specifically. >> So, when that was occupied at full capacity as an office building, the three lights were not on River Road that
have caused a lot of traffic over the last three years. They have there have been a lot of studies just about cut through traffic on Iris, cut through traffic on Woodland. Um, and that being at full capacity with full-time residents, I'm just wondering if you're
going to extend those traffic studies as a town or like for the project to be comprehensive. >> Yeah. So, I would say that those are probably better questions for when the traffic engineer testifies. He did submit a full report in connection with the application. He's here to he's here
to um hear your comment so we can incorporate that or he can address that in testimony as to whether what you're speaking about is impactful or whether he cons that was considered. >> Yeah. Um so I guess I would just ask the board to take that into consideration. I can send an email as well. So my other
question would be when I moved in 10 years ago, I got a letter and notification that Wells Fargo was putting a light on top of the building and it had to go out to all the residents within, you know, a certain um area. A lot of us just learned about
this. Um, a lot of us had no idea this was happening. And I don't want to undermine any of the work and planning that's been done because I value and respect everything. And I do want to give you credit that it's going to look nicer than a vacant office building. So
I think that's, you know, fantastic. Um, but not learning about it compared to receiving a letter to come to a hearing that they were going to add a neon sign over an office building 9 years ago and learning about this, my question would be, how much notification is the
community and the area going to get? We just sat here talking about Aubre's corner sconces and step for like 40 minutes. So like lights, you know, things that will impact us. Your point about residential lights being on, we
can see this that was acknowledged by the city nine years ago. So like will there be communication I guess is my question as the project progresses. >> Right. Um, you want to speak to how how people are
notified the process? >> I can help you with the process. You you you if you're within 200 feet, you receive the uh certified mail notice uh from the applicant according to the records and those would have been crossch checked by
>> but no neighbor has received them. >> No, no, no. I'm saying if you live within 200 ft. But regardless, there's also publication notice. So they did provide the requisite notice for this hearing. >> Okay. >> More than 10 days in advance for the municipal land use law. They may or may not they don't have to provide further
notices. It uh uh going forward. The anticipation is each meeting that we carry which we'll probably be carrying this one very soon. These hearings will continue uh we'll be giving you a date, time, and place uh as to when the
hearings would continue. Um it's a an open public meeting hearing process. So the members all members of the public are welcome to come as every evening that this uh these hearings continue and you have an opportunity to ask questions
of every witness and then generally at the end you have an opportunity to make any comments you wish which I will swear you in so that they have the weight of testimony just like you saw me swear the experts there. So, it will be ongoing and uh it'll also be on the website, I
believe, >> just to further confirm as to when these hearings will continue to be. >> Thank you. And just to clear up residential like questions on the notification, is the radius is it is it different than it was 9 years ago or is it a difference?
>> The perimeter is would be the perimeter of the the entire site, the lot. It's one lot, right? 200 feet from the perimeter of the >> 200 feet from if it c and if it catches any portion of your >> Joe's going to >> but I'm sorry if my question is not not
clear though because we >> I understand that you got it before 10 years >> I can't speak to that but Joe's going to show you the 200 foot we have a list >> here's here's Ira >> just to say this line represents 200 ft from >> I totally respect that absolutely
>> I have no idea why and I'm not questioning that I We received that letter and that was I think why so many residents were confused by >> how far this had gone along with no one knowing and to this point not being able to ask the questions.
>> Well, just to be clear, this is the first time we're seeing an the application as well. >> This is the very this is the beginning of this site plan application. and we're all like as neighbors catching up and so like please understand >> everything should be posted on the website too so that you can look at all
the plans and all the comments >> website we have the website but um but yeah no so like definitely respect everything that has done I think the biggest point is the traffic on river road and from the website it really seemed like the traffic study that was used may have been a little outdated
prior to those three additional traffic lights which has caused a lot of backup coming off of 24 Okay. No, we're happy to address that traffic engineer. >> And and if I may to help um uh Mr. Taval, you're you anticipate the traffic expert to be which number witness.
>> I was going to be the fourth witness. I was going to do the building next, the architecture, >> then the landscape architecture, and then traffic. I just thought that that but you know, I'm happy to hear suggestions from the board. But >> for larger projects like this, they typically go more than one meeting, especially when the first meeting had so
many other items on it. >> Yeah. Um, so yeah, and >> we have a tentative meeting in August, but often it's not one that's used. It's officially on our schedule as possible because so many people are not here in August. So the next one in September,
Jessica, is when >> September 28th. >> Okay. So >> So that would be the next time that we'd see the applicant for sure. >> That's great. We'll just August neighbors >> again. Everybody goes to the beach in August. So yeah, because I think everyone was just surprised there was no written communication for how it will
impact obviously water, traffic, visibility, lights, like all the things that you guys are are, you know, talking about. So we'll just keep an eye on the um the agendas as they come up. So thank you guys. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Okay. We have to go into close session with
there no more questions from the public. >> Okay. Thank you very much. We have to go into close session. >> Well, date time and place. Do we have to formally announce? >> Yeah. Is there is there any way to be heard in August? >> I don't I have not taken a survey of attendance because that's why it's always flexible because so many people
are away. Um we'll have to get back to you if we have a quorum. >> If we have a quorum, we can do it. >> But of course, we have to right now give a date, time, and place. >> Okay. So, who's around August 17th? >> I will. >> How many do we need,
>> Mr. Attorney? >> Well, you need five minimum. >> Five minimum. We're here >> to have a quarum to continue the hearing. >> You're here. >> I'm just not sure. >> I don't know. >> You don't know? >> I can let you know in the next >> Don't put your hand up if you don't know. Put your hand up if you know. One,
two, three, four. >> Five. Good. We're good. So, August 17th, >> we have at least five. >> Don't get sick. >> We might have more. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, so just >> Joe, did you have a point? Are you gonna be here?
>> No. And I'm not sure if Tom will, but we'll have somebody here. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You'll be here. >> Yeah. I'm glad momentum. >> Okay. So, just for again the benefit of me, all members of the public for this
hearing. Uh we're going to be continuing this hearing, carrying it without further notice. This is the notice to >> August 17th 17th at 7:30 p.m. >> right here in city hall.
Okay. >> Is this waving the board's time? >> Question. If we can't attend that meeting, can we still vote at the end? How does that affect the >> As you know with all hearings um you can qualify yourself by watching the video and uh then notifying and signing the
certification with Jessica. >> Um so so long as the vote doesn't take at a place at a meeting when you're not there, uh you can qualify yourself in the interim to be able to vote at the next meeting. >> All right. And just to be clear, August 17th, 7:30 p.m. in this room, and there'll be no further notice required.
>> No further notice. >> All right. Thank you very much. >> Okay. >> Is this waving the board's time to act as well? >> Are we are we at that point? >> Probably not, but why don't you give us an extension of time attack through the end of the month of September and shoot me an email to confirm it. >> All right. Since the next meeting is
August 17, 2026, why don't we do an extension through September 30th, 2026? >> I just said that. Yes. >> Thank you. >> But I'll look out for the email. Thank you. >> You can go. >> It's okay. It's okay. Thank you.
>> No, no, no. >> So, we have to go into close session. Can we have have a >> Yeah, we have a resolution >> into close session. Are we going to go back to public? >> Yes, the chair. >> I don't I don't Do we have to do that resolution though after? Don't we have
to come back to to to sign something? >> Do we have minutes for memorialization? You want to do the minutes real quick It's okay.