##VIDEO ID:qF0kWGeDdEM## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e now you to the Rescue all right so I call the meeting to order we'll start with the roll call please sure Mr Zucker is excused Miss balson Alvarez oh I'm sorry my apologies but actually technically we should do the oath of office okay before we do the roll call so that we have ensured proper appointment of all of our board members before we do the roll call did we uh uh and I believe we started start with the adequate notice and then the Pledge of Allegiance okay that's what we were going to do yeah okay and someone has the adequate statement adequate notice statement now for the adequate notice statement in accordance with New Jersey state statute 10 4-10 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to a newspaper of record and has been posted here in City Hall please be advised this is a no smoking building fire exits are to my right and your left and in the back of the room this is a scheduled meeting of a of the planning board there may be other meetings currently running simultaneously with this meeting if you're not here I'll I mean if you're not here although there is no one else here for the planning board your meeting may be upstairs or elsewhere in the building this is a good time for The Pledge here we go all right to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right so it's now my privilege to give the oath of office to our new and returning board members Jennifer balson Alvarez class uh class four Ryan felet class 4 uh is not with us this evening John zooker is not with us this evening class 4 Augusto Delo Class 2 uh Susan Bowen is not with us class 4 PJ Salah class 4 alternate 2 and mayor Fagan are class one appointment if you'll raise your right hand and repeat after me I state your name I elizeth do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support I will support the Constitution of the United States Constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New Jersey and the constitution of the state of New Jersey I will bear and then I will bear true faith and allegiance to same true faith and allegiance to same and to the governments and to the government established in the United States established in the United States and in this state and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people I do solemnly swear I do Solly swear that I will Faithfully that I will faithfully impartially and justly impartially and perform all the duties perform all the duties of member of the city of summit planning board of M of City according to the best of my ability according to the best ofil so help me God so help me God congratulations welcome and welcome back thank you all right so now we turn it over to Stephanie roll yes I'll do the roll call Mr Zucker is excused Miss balson Alvarez here Mr spur here mayor Fagan here council member Hamlet here Mr alaso here Mr felmet is excused Mr forelli here Mr Stern is excused Miss Bowen is excused Mr Salah here you have a quorum you may proceed thank you and if I may call for nominations all of our board members this evening our regular members this evening including uh our alternate 2 this evening given the absences so all can vote on these officer positions uh first calling for nomination for chair of the planning board for the city of summit for calendar year 2025 any nominations I'd like to nominate Steven spur we have a nomination is there a second second we have a second any other nominations hearing and seeing none we'll close the nominations and uh why don't we do a roll call vote nonetheless so we could hear all the affirmative votes okay Miss balson Alvarez yes mayor Fagan yes council member Hamlet yes Mr domaso yes Mr forelli yes Mr Salah yes unanimous congratulations thank you very much my privilege to turn the meeting over to our new chair friend go all right next on our agenda is uh identifying a second to M chair a vice chair are there any nominations for vice chair I'd like to nominate Jennifer Boston Alvarez excellent do we have a second second okay other nomination PJ don't want to jump with this too much for one day right dip your toe in all right hearing none uh we can Sly have a roll call V for Jennifer Balon alz to serve again as Vice chair thank you sure chairman spur yes mayor Fagan yes council member Hamlet yes Mr domaso yes Mr forelli yes Mr Salah yes the motion carries congratulations thank we'll get you a printed copy of the readout uh the next officer for us to appoint and will'll invite nomination is for secretary any care to nominate for secretary stepanie all right so we hear Stephanie sulos do we have a second second all right mayor Fagan really putting in some effort tonight welcome to days love it any other nominations for secetary that we'll have a quick roll call vote sure chairman spur yes Vice chair balson Alvarez yes mayor Fagan yes council member Hamlet yes Mr dalmaso yes Mr forelli yes Mr Salah yes the motion carries all right welcome back Stephanie thank you okay uh now to professional appointments U which has a reminder for hopefully the public who's watching us on YouTube enjoying spacal this evening um we have the opportunity to appoint board attorney planner and engineer um at the close of 2024 we solicited through the city uh we we invited uh professional firms in these areas of specialty um to to present their services or qualifications um and we identified um through the you know the examination of the board Who We Believe would best serve us for this year ahead so it's an annual appointment um starting with the board attorney um I think I just identify who this is right we don't unfortunately appoint a particular attorney we appoint a firm which in this case is savos sha which is represented typically by our our current board attorney or attorney from 2024 um Steve Warner so I don't know do we need a roll call on that or uh actually technically yes it's uh a motion second and a roll call vote please so then uh for board attorney uh I'll invite a motion for Salo shul to service the planning board in 2025 motion so moved a second second thank PJ all right the roll call sure chairman spur yes Vice chair balson Alvarez yes mayor Fagan yes council member Hamlet yes Mr domaso yes Mr forelli yes Mr Salah yes the motion carries thank you for your continued confidence and it's a privilege that continue to serve the board thank you Mr Warner uh next is appointment of the board planner for which uh the board has identified Burgess Associates represented by no less than the man himself Joe Burgess here this evening uh so I'll invite a nomination uh for Burgess Associates to serve as planner for the planning board so moves second second thank you okay any other nomination no right no we're good the roll call please okay chairman spur yes Vice chair balson Alvarez yes mayor Fagan yes council member Hamlet yes Mr dalmaso yes Mr forelli yes Mr Salah yes the motion carries thank you very much it's going to be a very busy planning year very busy year on your hats good grateful to have you Joe and Tom and the whole team so thank you thank you and finally his appointment of the board engineer for which the board identified cers represented by Mar rafet who's been with us previously um without i' invite a nomination for colar so move a second go ahead go go for it I don't get so many speaking parts during meetings all right we'll have the roll call then sure chairman Spar yes Vice chair bson Alvarez yes mayor Fagan yes council member Hamlet yes Mr dalmaso yes Mr forelli yes Mr Sala yes the motion carries Excell thank you all very much you good to have you um on committee appointments moving right along here um you and I didn't get to follow up on it we voting on environmental commission or his reservation so I tried to follow up with Rosie and I have not her back if we need anything we could always there's always February that's right all right um so we have four committee appointments to make um I don't know if see do we need to run through these individually or can we acknowledge these in one one vote uh if there's uh if there's no uh objection from any board members or any alternate uh you if there your appointments so you could do it you can do it all in one we do need someone I was going to volunteer some yes it should be listed on but it's not do we have a list of the Committees she like a list I think that it's environmental commission preservation housing Park so I think ination with housing they well if I may I think we can probably knock a couple of these out yeah so affordable housing the intention was to reappoint Susan Bowen right um Mount Laurel I would continue in my capacity as the Mount Laurel representative right park line was open I was going to volun tell Ryan felmet um for that role but if anyone else is eager to service serve on the park line he's on Park line he was on last year right he was pretty sure yeah um yeah know he definitely the I say that Augusto has to kind of keep him like get him we have a lot going on with the park line so we're going to have to just keep him informed or whoever you know Jamal I think is the council is you want to defer uh Park line and ask Ryan no he's really excited about I could probably answer for Ryan he's really um with Augusto hovering over him to Ure that he attends and engages and reports back to us um and then I believe the shre was a reappointment for Paul Stern as correct M so unless unless anyone objects what about the historic preservation commission and the environmental commission so I'd asked Stephanie to to check in on those and according to the clerk's office there wasn't wasn't a need for us to appoint but we can if we want to can if we want because we've had environmental for years we' had people that are interested and star preservation had I was volun told that one many years ago and it um so I'm happy to do that again yeah I think it's there's there's certain reasons I'll talk about later on for some capital projects that I'd like to see the planning board eventually look at that I think it's important to have an environmental leaz on so I'd hate to lose that do we have anyone here today just if we were to include kind of preemptively an environmental commission representative we're unfortunately not fully represented anyone that would like to step into that role I'm looking at either probably PJ or PA unfortunately as I assume you Jennifer interest in historic preservation yeah yeah yeah not to be presumptuous but put me down for the environmental all right okay so Paul will be thank you Paul to the extent necessary Paul will step into the environmental commission big shoes from Mr Bell and PJ you're spared so at least for now we'll find something yeah we'll put you to work you're not that far from the chair seat So eventually we'll get over this story um I think with that we just need a vote then for the committee appointments including again preemptively environmental commission and historic preservation okay do you want to run through it just because that was a little fast so affordable housing planning board leaz on Susan Bowen Mount Laurel subcommittee reappointment Steven spur Park line committee Ryan felmet Shay tree Paul Stern environment commission Paul forelli and our own Vice chair Jennifer balson Alvarez for historic preservation cool happy to help so maybe we'll do we need Motion in a second let's there there's special committee appointments uh uh by but by the chair but uh nothing wrong with having a motion second and a roll call vote to show that the board is all on board for lack of a better term with all those committee appointments so for what we we had just summarized there is there a motion to move those appointments forward so mov all right do we have a second Augusto you want to get the second second sorry keep looking this way just on that side okay and then we can run through a quick sure chairman Spar yes Vice chair bson Alvarez mayor Fagan yes council member Hamlet yes Mr dalmaso yes Mr forelli yes Mr Salah yes the motion carries excellent all right moving right along number eight uh the calendar so uh you will recall we had approved a calendar for 2025 uh at the close of 2024 there was a change we needed to make uh to the December 2025 date due to a conflict uh with it was governing body maybe no it was with the zoning zoning board the August body the zoning board um so we were offered the 15th or the 18th as um Alternatives I don't know if there's a strong preference I don't think Stephanie had heard from any of the members 15th is a Monday 18th accordingly is a Thursday a Thursday that always stick with our Monday people are accustomed to us being here Monday our Consultants are too so I I don't weigh in but I think that from a legal perspective that's a prudent choice we won't ask for planning an engineering input hopefully it's plus he has the office party on the th no no no it's very low key very low key kidding so then let's let's proceed with December 15th I think we'll similarly request a motion in a second we can we can vote just to formalize the adoption so we have a motion uh to amend our calendar for now the inclusion of December 15th as our December 2025 un so moved second seconded thank you do a vote Stephanie okay chairman Spar yes Vice chair balson Alvarez yes mayor Fagan yes council member Hamlet yes Mr dalmaso yes Mr forelli yes Mr Salah yes the motion carries EXC all right uh resolution adoption so we have two resolutions here again as formalities the first being the designation of official newspapers to notice our meetings and the activities of the board um I don't know if anyone had any questions on that that's a relatively straightforward exercise relatively if I may Mr chair though as as many may know uh some of our papers no longer are in print uh certain significant Statewide paper will very shortly no longer have a print edition as well as its subsidiary papers but as you may know the legislation has been enacted at least on a temporary basis to ensure that all of our same newspapers that we utilize for noticing purposes uh um will still constitute sufficient newspapers for noticing purposes even if they just have an online uh digital version uh so uh with that understanding yes it's it's uh fairly wrote just like every other year perect good okay any questions otherwise I'll invite a motion for to adopt the official newspapers of the summit planning board so we have a second second on that chairman Spar yes Vice chair balson Alvarez yes mayor Fagan yes council member Hamlet yes Mr domaso yes Mr forelli yes Mr Salah yes the motion carries Excell all right and our next resolution we can pause here I know there were some questions or revisions last year um some tweaking of language but uh the planning board has adopted rules and regulations to govern our conduct um provide some clarity as to how we operate why we operate um so I don't know if anyone had shared I know Steve or Stephanie you had had heard from any board members about further revisions late breaking revisions I should say no I I have not heard from any I did re-re them as I do every year uh there are no changes in my opinion in the municipal land use law local government ethics law open public meetings act that would impact or certainly not uh uh provide any problems to our current addition or iteration of the rules there was a land use related statute that was amended this year but it does not impact our bylaws uh so uh unless there's something that board members Wish by way of discretion to make a modification we could keep it as is from last year okay I don't know if anyone had any questions I know there was a round of some questions in late late revision last year but jul I know like oh yeah you Troublemaker last what is going on I was definitely the Troublemaker last year so I don't think I have any issues I'm looking at him real quick um and we have the ability to amend during the year you absolutely struck by some great Innovation to the byall ABS and and certainly if there's an ml change or something I'll bring it to everyone's attention where if I believe that any rule of Regulation should be or must be amended so okay so any questions or speak now or until February you speak again all right and with that I'll invite a motion to adopt the rules and regulations of the planning boarda would you entertain that motion I would entertain that motion so much than you so much we have a second second thank you okay sure chairman spur yes Vice chair balson Alvarez yes mayor Fagan yes council member Hamlet yes Mr domaso yes Mr forelli yes Mr Salah yes the motion carries Excell uh we have minutes then point 10 on the agenda from our December 18th 2024 meeting um always an opportunity to revise those if necessary I don't know if anyone caught anything in their detailed review prior to the meeting I have a question sure um Steve can I just ask you a quick question why uh the the section 21 2 1-10 uh letters and petitions and objection oh I'm sorry we're going back to the BW yeah sorry I just I just thought about it right now I'm sorry Steve no no no problem bear with me I'm just curious why that why people can't bring letters or petitions in front of the planning board I'm just I just don't understand yeah there's a case law making it very clear that uh uh you if you you cannot send in a document to constitute testimony because one cannot cross-examine a document and everyone including members of the public are entitled to question any testimony brought before the board so for example if someone wants to bring in a letter that they wrote and they want to read their own letter under oath into the record and be available for cross-examination that's fine but you cannot submit a petition from a thousand residents okay uh saying XYZ and none of those thousand residents are here to be uh attested that con of course constitutional Provisions do process Right of Confrontation come into play what if they were here I'm sorry what if what if all the petitioners were here again if all the petitioners were here I guess two things number one there's no problem with them submitting the petition be because they're there to be cross-examined the other thing that comes to my mind candidly is if there's a thousand people here why do you need to submit the petition why not have each and every one of them testify under oath as to what their opinion is but sure so it's simply it's simply the out of court the document without the uh uh the witness testifying that's the problem so we are a quasi judicial body as I always like to say so I think we're still on the meeting minutes then okay and that we would just need a motion a second I think a a Voice vote is acceptable I have some edits yeah there may be some abstentions for anyone who might have been absent but I'm sure Stephanie will record that yes sure some okay so on the well the way it printed out for me I don't know if it's the first page for everybody else but one two three the fourth paragraph it I think um I think we need to change this the property is in the CB anyway uh it was confirmed that it says there will be no signage but actually that signage uh there was no signage proposed at this time but they anticipated signage when right M you know so we we have to reflect that okay that they would be signage at some point um and on the second page just for clarity uh the board commented that the windows are important for the character of this building and expressed appreciation that The Replacements would mimic the historic Windows because they did a bang up job yes and they also referred to the design guidelines that they follow and the Secretary of interior standard that they followed we're like hey it works it actually works sometimes hoay so I it it was in the the negative that we were like oh you can't replace your no no we were complimenting them on on their their uh beautiful job that they did and then the last little edit I had was the next uh paragraph the board asked about the interior condition of the building not the style okay um and the responded that the interior is in good condition and has plaster walls bronze Gates and a coffered ceiling okay so and they said they were going to keep it all sure they did which is pretty neat it's one of the best buildings in summer all right that's all I have any other additions amendments just overall revisions to the minutes from December 18th we'll look also at the actual resolution memorializing the decision for us but it's now more consistent okay hearing none we'll ask ask for a motion to to approve the amended minutes of December 18 just one thing we're going to exclude council member Hamlet Mr dalmaso Mr felmet Mayor Fagan and Mr Salah because they were not present for that meeting so we wouldn't take a motion or a second from them either correct correct they'll abstain from the vote Yes I think that leaves three of us a second second all those all those in favor I any opposed the motion carries okay Co and moving to item 11 resolutions for memorialization uh 367 Springfield Avenue uh the applicant saf Summit LLC um this is the former Bank of America building I suppose we would refer to it as but it has a much deeper historical lineage than that um anything else maybe Jennifer you caught just for the sake of consistency or yes DET uh on the second page um well I don't know I don't think my page numbers are correct so uh under four one two three four five six seven eth bullet it's the historic preservation commission got that y um um which I just noticed now actually uh and then under number 15 um just the the actual correct name is the building is on the national and state registers of historic places as a contributing and we usually say building contributing building contributing correct it's the bu not the yeah but we usually say building okay and then um a little further down it said Ms Dy further advised that the proposed um improvements follow the design principles which is an interesting word for additions to Historic structures and then I think what you're referring to because she said it was as found in our Dro in the design guidelines and if you really want to get specific the Secretary of interior standards s sois just want to do that I think that's just accurate and that's what she said and it also gives us a plug for our design guidelines um and I think that's all I have I'm just going to take a that's all yep that's all I have any other amendments to this resolution actually I may have an amendment okay and my apologies because my colleague was here I was not I know it was unanimous but uh if the decision uh if the minutes are accurate we may have only had and I think they were uh six uh voting in favor none against on this uh we I put nine uh to zero I think it's six to zero there's so on page five in the decision section so remains unanimous but only six to zero it was a great application excellent all right so then with the addition of Mr Warner's Amendment uh is there a motion to I'm sorry I just want to State who the voting members are um so the eligible voting members are Mr Zucker who's not here Vice chair balson Alvarez chairman spur Mr forelli Mr Stern and Mr Bell so there's only a few more than enough yes we have a motion to approve the amended resolution for so this application seconded second okay and this will will take a a voice a roll yes chairman Spar yes Vice chair balson Alvarez yes Mr forelli yes the motion carries excellent and number 12 for planner discussions to change the pace and make good use of Mr bur's time who generously came here for one of 12 items on the agenda and I have a five different items I'd like to discuss I will be brief I promise uh one is the Dr um we have submitted the revisions as we discussed at the previous meeting um I think we've addressed all the issues that were discussed because I think we're down to two or three really of of consequence um in addition to that unless there's a question about that memo uh in addition in ver at the very end of the year we submitted a second memo about a dozen or so Pages identifying ordinance additional ordinance amendments um we are in the process of taking those ordinance amendments and putting them in the structure of an ordinance now because I think there was complete concurrence that what was in that memo was satisfactory uh we should have that for the next meeting um and if there's any questions about the Dr otherwise I'll move on to item number two maybe just to pause there for a second only for me to say I think the intention we have is with the revisions that you've noted there that this board would vote to send then these recommendations to the governing body at the February meeting which I don't think is unreasonable in terms of a timeline that that is correct and then what will happen after introduction especially for the new board member if you're not familiar with this process the governing body will introduce it formally then it comes back to this board and this board then has to make a determination as to whether or not all the ordinance amend proposed amendments are consistent or not with the goals and objectives of the master plan and then they make the recommendation back to the governing body and technically the governing body can take that recommendation and uh take it completely or partially or reject it completely and vote on it anyway but that's the way the statute the municipal L use law reads okay um but there you I just have a quick question about the EV the state EV um resolution or regulation superceding our regulations can you just walk us through that a little bit um state regulations for uh EV uh the provision of EV stations does in fact and it says in the regulations that it supersedes local ordinances and what that state regulation provides is once the the number of EV stations are calculated a developer is obligated to install a third of that total initially or Pro provide the wherewithal for it to be installed initially and then every three years I believe it is um they have to do another third until finally they're all constructed okay I guess the reason I'm asking that question is I know one of the things that I was hoping to well I'm not sure if it be popular or not but um within our within our drro right we couldn't have advertisements on the EV charging stations I think that was in there and I'm curious if that um that could be so so do do we have to worry about that anymore like can we have an EV station with advertisements on it yes okay so that's a big change um wait I'm sorry if I may with the chair's permission the question was can we have one with advertisements and because before we couldn't and uh you're saying the answer is yes we can yes but you're are you saying in that we have no control over whether or not that can occur it can as municipality because it's counter to our drro but it doesn't matter because the state take regulations on that's my understanding the state the state doesn't dictate if there's advertising on them or not what's a that's that would be a local type of thing if I may maybe the best thing to do is just double check because and I didn't look at it for this meeting and it's been a little while those are the but the dog did not eat my homework I'm not going to use that excuse but um but I believe uh and I just want to double check uh that uh the stateb statue preempts Us in certain with respect to certain uh uh aspects of electric vehicle uh and and make ready spaces as they call them uh and and the dictates thereof but certain items I thought were left within Municipal discretion so I would just want to if I'm correct in my recollection I would just want to double check to see if advertisements might fall within that discretion for us um so it's a long longwinded way of saying Joe Joe Mr Burgess is probably right but I'm not entirely certain he is I just want to make sure before let's check it um I had been under the impression that when we talk advertising it could be simply you know if it's a Tesla wood on the side as opposed to a lit up thing which is effectively Street the of the yeah there's there's a whole spectrum of issues that you could deal with within that that need to be discussed no one should look at this as a yes no answer for anything yeah but it might be prudent to double check that I I have I'm I'm involved with municipalities where people have come in at the shopping malls and sought to use them for advertising Revenue there are TV screens and multiple digital advertising lights Etc so I think it's yeah chair if I may I think it's interesting I I was speaking with um the superintendent of the um school board and I actually asked him I was like do we have any EV charging stations right now you know within the the high school or and the answer was no so I think you know whether or not you're for or against advertising if it's a way for whether it's the board of Ved or the city to get a few EV stations you know you're talking about little to no cost versus you know putting that in our capital projects which we're about to do it's it's comes actually an interesting conversation but maybe Steve Mr warmer from a procedural perspective the recommendation of this board would be to what resend the existing EV ordinances that the municipality had passed allow then the state or the state rules to apply and if we were to further seek to amend the for say the advertising case we would pass an ordinance locally to address those specific areas where we have the discretion I mean yeah there's a lot of steps in that I just want to right and and it might be most effective and efficient to do it in one ordinance right as opposed to just edit what we have based on what we find out about ads lighting screens all of that whether the state covers all of that I will double check that and I gather so will you we tag team I'll your people callot my people there you go we'll come to a unanimous conclusion the sure so it may be helpful then just in preparation of the board packet for the next meeting to have the existing EV the municipal ordinance shared with the board for reference if the intent is to modify the existing rather than write something new everybody could practice looking it up yourselves there you go because that's what we should be doing right okay all right that's the first of five items on Mr bur's Hit List here what do you got for secondly is the one of the more exciting ones it's the housing element and fair share plan yes okay as a I think most of you might if not all of you know the governing body has filed the resolution correct they did file it uh with the affordable housing dispute resolution program uh we were obligated by law to file it no later than the end of this month uh interestingly enough the legislation does in fact say that if you don't meet that deadline you would lose your immunity from exclusion or resoning litigation so we are we have done step one in this process the next step um let me first talk about the steps in the legislation and then we'll talk about how we're going to address everything um in the month of February oh and and that resolution particularly for the new board member um was to identify what we believe our initial assessment or determination of our housing need numbers are um that is no different than when COA used to give us a number the new legislation allowed you to adjust it however the legislation did say that the methodology the DCA utilized the municipalities have to utilize so obviously well they suggested that there's this flexibility to come up with your own number if you're using the exact same methodology you don't have that much flexibility um but irrespective of selecting their number um during the preparation of the housing element and fair share plan we are entitled to pursue the COA vacant land adjustment process just as we did under round three when our number dropped from quite a few hundred down to 36 units and we envision that last but again when it went from I said quite a few hundred because I forget the exact around 400 that's I remember down to 36 we anticipate that with this round the number will be even less because of the way the process um requires you to do that evaluation so um and I apologize for interrupting Joe but if I may just to and part of the process also with respect to the binding resolution of course is to within 48 Hours of adoption of the ordinance posted on our website as well as have it filed with a declaratory judgment complaint with the affordable housing dispute resolution program through the ecort system which of course is has been done no doubt correct the next step is through the month of February anyone any interested party whether it's fair share housing center whether it's a resident where it's whether it's a developer anyone can file an objection to your selection of the number the fact that we have chosen to just acknowledge dca's determination of the need suggest that no one should be filing an objection to what we've done in the month of March and I'm just going to call it the program from here on out the program in the month of March uh is supposed to be analyzing every municipal any objection and every objection to a municipal number and resolve that dispute in the month of March my own view is that is where this process may slow down a little bit yeah um and you know our office is also being retained as you know all the special adjudicators are basically being retained now through them as well as the courts in this process um following the end of March um assuming there's no there's nothing to resolve for us we could start doing our housing plan now which we will be doing and I'll talk about that in a moment but in the month following that um everybody has to prepare their housing plan technically you have to file an adopted housing plan by the end of June June 30th okay realistically what I am suggesting we should be preparing and finishing a draft plan for the full planning board to review sometime in late April worst case scenario the first week of May yeah now you have to decide we've talked about this previously whether you want to have that I would continue with working with the uh Mount Laurel subcommittee group Which con comprises the planning board and council members um and work with them day to day and then periodically we will come back I'll come back before the planning board to explain where we are in the process so you're fully the full board is always kept fully informed just that June deadline is for the governing body's adoption of this plan no no um we the planning the the planning board adopts the plan the governing body however excuse me um Endor has to endorse the plan before it gets filed okay with the state June's the filing so from a timing perspective that were're saying bring to the planning board in April a final draft let's call it may we would make any amendments necessary right and we would expect the governing body to endorse in that may to latest June time frame well approximately we can talk about the fall schedule too many attorneys I'm going to let you but you know what what we intend what we would like to do is you working with the subcommittee um have a draft plan in late April for the full planning board I would suggest we invite the governing body at that meeting to discuss an executive session what this is all about what the plan is all about and then the you know once everybody's in agreement with what the plan components are we will then hold a public hearing here sometime in mid late May it might even be the first week of June depending upon the complexities and issues that we have to resolve but then sometime after that the governing body will be endorsing it and then we file it and again again the way the legislature acted if you know once you adopt it if you do not file it within 48 Hours file it with the program again you would lose your immunity so they're being very own 48 hours from the endorsement pardon me well the adoption by the planning board yeah yeah 48 hours from the adoption by the planning board would be the time frame to to file it and post it so we adopt it they have to endorse it within that 48 and you have to file it within that 48 no I believe after the endorsement then they file 48 after the endorsement I think as long as that makes more sense as real thing I'll double check Jun I'll double check that but the key is it all has to be in place no later than June 30th and in if I may in addition to the adoption of the housing fair share plan by this board uh we will also have to have our implementation ordinances that would ultimately the governing body would ultimately adopt to effectuate that plan also need to be completed in draft form so in other words uh how you're going to effectuate through zoning ordinances that plan needs to be I I've always called it since they ad since they started this in March or before uh it's like a prepackaged situation uh so those or those ordinances have to be uh uh appr approved in a draft form uh by the end of Honor before June 30th as well right not just the housing element Fair now the next step in the process obors have until August 15th to an objection to that plan and the final deadline is don't hold me a DAT in March of 2026 where all ordinances have to be adopted to implement the plan that's correct okay now um Nancy Holmes and she's our affordable housing attorney um has put together a schedule that the subcommittee is meeting Thursday to review that schedule but it will detail once it's ironed out we we'll bring it back to the full planning board it will detail the series of meetings over the next six months that we intend to have with the planning board with the governing body we have a couple blank dates in here at the moment so we'll come I'll come back to you U at the next meeting with that all filled out okay so you'll know exactly what we have to do and when um any questions on the housing plan we just from A administrative perspective is do you anticipate the planning board require any more time than what is allowed in our schedule of public meetings or we should be able to as long as we're on top of the sequence the Cadence of it we should be able to accomplish all we should be fine um I'm hedging my bets a little bit but I'm fairly certain particularly if I get to continue to work with the committee because then we can meet during the day and you know move things along quick quicker that way okay anything else on no okay uh the third thing is it's a combination of three and for the master plan reexamination report and then the master plan we had talked some time ago about the need to do a new master plan um the last time we did a reexamination report was in 2016 so we have until early uh 2026 to either do a comprehensive new master plan or the Rea again and we agreed that it would be best just to do a Rea and what I'll call it down in dirty Rea knowing we're going to do a full master plan and um we had put together our letter of engagement on that issue uh the only question to you is the time frame that you would like to to do the reaction recognizing we have all this other stuff to do and you know we could say 90 days or you could say a little later um after we prepare the housing plan right but I'll leave it up to you in terms of how you would prefer to that's work you engage with you Burgess Associates engage with the planning board it's the planning board that bears the brunt of that that work is It ultimately endorsed by the governing body or how no no no it does not have to it's a planning Bo and I will tell you statutorily there's five specific questions that are asked um if you're doing a comprehensive reexamination it could be a very big document I would say let's do a very modest document save your money and uh because we know in the end what the conclusion is and it's like the fifth question of the statute do you feel you have to do a new master plan or not we know what the answer is so why spend a lot of time and effort on a Rex right when you really don't need to do so and if you're in agreement with that you know we could do one fairly quickly okay and probably most cost effective way so the work of the board in that very initial step is to review the of engagements as as has been proposed and then ultimately vote to approve it and begin the work in whatever form we ultimately um if if I could suggest then we could put in 90 days for that shouldn't take that long but um you know it'll it'll make us legal so we don't have to worry about an early 2026 deadline staring Us in the face if I may just for clarification you're saying 90 days post July 1 let's say um for assuming no we could it could be we're going to we could submit this next week and then 90 days from whenever the governing body signs it so you would do it contemporaneous with the housing element fair share plan okay yes again because I'm envisioning and I'm going to really stress this a modest document because in the end we do know what the conclusion is going to be so it's a decision point for the planning board to make at the February meeting for example in consultation with the governing body did you have a question there I say you leaning and have yeah I do so I just want to be clear in my head um the re this sort of pseudo re exam quick quick and dirty yes we need a master plan just we're g to and then how what's the time frame between when we determine that and when we start doing a master plan uh probably after the adoption of the housing plan because this is going as we had some preliminary discussions the new master plan is going to be a pretty comprehensive document there are a number of elements um the statute now requires you do that you've never had to do before okay um one relates to climate change and the vulnerability assessment um so there's a lot and when there's a sustainability element that you're obligated to do now as well so there's a lot there's many new things that come I would imagine there may be a closed session discussion with the governing body in advance of even entertaining A approval to spend money sure I'm not sure the governing body is entirely up to speed on that timeline right well that's kind of what I wanted to wrap my head around a little bit what I would what I could do for you in this Rea I'll spill out what the whole master plan process would entail so you'll have that early okay that's helpful and then as a piece of that I'm I'm probably getting outad of us a little bit but um I recall in 2016 that there was sort of a committee that was residents and you know not necessarily just planning board and Council people is that correct am I recalling that correctly and is that I believe you're that is correct but again because this is going to be a modest that was like an 80 page document this is going to be 20 Pages at most okay we don't need but the question is how will the public be involved and engaged right correct I think to Joe's point the scale of the overall effort is significantly diminished from a full master plan development but it doesn't remove the necessity of the public to engage in some form and I think we use the plane board can discuss whether groups whether it's yeah how we will solicit that because I think last time for those of you uh who are newer um we discussed you know do we want to go for it and do a whole another one or do we want to do it and in talking with Joe and the the the board because our last react was so comprehensive with with way more public Outreach than is typical for a reacts we thought okay maybe this time we just do this because we have the housing on our plate too and that's really got to take our time and attention that we do this skinny one and then really go for it again next time which I think would be great but I do think that the point of public Outreach is still important and we have to figure out how to do that in a in a a different way than we did last more truncated way yeah I just have a quick question so if you if we take the Rex which was 80 some like how are you going to skinny that down like because it's 80 pages are you going to take all the goals and objectives and and what's your vision on that the vision is that we're going to say for the short term those goals and objectives are still valid and they will be evaluated as part of a comprehensive new master plan that will be the recommendation at the end of that document I'm just I'm my only fear is that we're we're taking an opportunity to do some work and we're not like it's actually a decent opportunity to sort of look at some things that maybe we do need to discuss like to give you a couple of examples right um we sat in our capital budget meeting today and as we go through our capital budget I know there's things that now the state is requiring for like our transfer station for um I think it's like remediation um so to give you one example or what's in our you know what what have we recently included in our rosi what do we need to include so I'm just worried that I don't want to just check the the box and get it over with because I just want to make sure that we all agree that all of these goals and objectives are the same I think we just have to take some time and make sure we're on the same page because it's it's important we're basically saying we say that this document is is good to go and we may not all feel that way and that's why we need some public engagement for sure and you've learned a lot and you you know we're all to talk about things we can add and that's the very question I'm asking you right you know do you want to do more now when your Plate's going to be pretty full because there's also the state plan that I want to talk about the determination is not really to be made of the scope within the public input sessions that could spin wildly out of control it's more likely in the consideration of the scope of work of Burgess Associates when we he defines I like skinny reacts much better than down and dirty reacts the skinny reacts um and that's for the governing body for the mayor for staff for everyone to kind of input on as to whether or not based on especially kind of recent land use debate and discussion in the community this is going we're going to be able to fairly reflect the changes that we we want to make and remembering this is still a policy document it has a certain kind of altitude to it no but see I think that's what what happened with the 2016 document we were not involved in that obviously somebody else was it's that's that was a reexamination report that somehow became the equivalent of a master plan that's right and that was a lot more than it needed and reacts ever is um we learned a lot yeah the react we got a lot of that was really interesting and helpful I thought a reex a reexamination is what the title says it is you're just looking back at your reexamination your master plan and deciding is it sufficient or do you need a new one and the react that evolved from however it evolved um was almost the equivalent of a a master plan it contains some unfortunately it contains some but not all the of the requirements of a master plan is spelled out in the municipal land use law it certainly included a lot more than the reexamination requirements there are St out in the statute because the statute as I said just asks five questions what are your goals and objectives are they still relevant um if they're not what are your recommendations and does the local Redevelopment and Housing law apply anywhere in town and the bottom line question is do you do you make all those kind of changes or do you just do a new master plan and in many instances where towns recognize they're going to be doing a new master plan they'll do a very brief truncated react because they know where the where the conclusion is and then all your time and energy will be spent on a master plan rather on rather than on a document that technically has no legal weight you know the react really and you've heard me say this previously um the reexamination does not carry any legal weight the master plan does because it's the predicate for all your zoning regulations and that's the document that the zoning board and even you on bulk variances have to evaluate When anybody asks for a bulk variance or the zoning board when they evaluate a use variance and decide is there a substantial impairment to the intent of that document it doesn't say the intent of a reexamination report you can't rely on re-exam as I always tell my planners they the uh uh in any master plan consistency review I always go back to the master plan the real one not the re-exam but the re-exam if I may and please correct me if from wrong Jo one of the ways I think of it it stop the clock on the 10 years uh not a bad thing if you're butting up against a 10year expiration from prior master plan or master plan reexamination 2016 2026 I hate to say it's around the corner because we just got to 2025 last I recall but but it's everything's always just around the corner so yeah to Joe's Point uh do you try to do it all now with everything else in your plate or do you stop the clock so to speak uh and then uh when the housing element fair share plan Etc is is complete uh then do the Yen's work of a ma a new master plan the the Rex does refer back though consistently throughout the document to the original master plan and then almost transitional pontificate more but say but look at that it does refer back to it it's still a useful docsity to re-examine the issues a bit and tweak things as needed which it's not we're not in other words we're not blowing up the Orin docum there's no need to do that at this point the large majority of is probably I think most pretty consistent valid but it gives you the opportunity to I wouldn't call it down and dirty I wouldn't call it light I would just call it a a kind of exactly what it is an acceptance that the Maj the main majority of the original document is valid and a couple of key points need to be maybe Rec clarified right and then again I would work with either the sub commit the M laal subcomittee that you already have or you know a different group this is more for the planning board rather than the governing body because the governing body doesn't get involved in a reexamination report it's probably a sub subcommittee of the planning board right it can't be more right people than than you have a you can't have a quarum right we are The Gatekeepers of the master plan I favor right not that the mount laal subcommittee isn't looking for more things to do the only other thing I would add is you know you're supposed to do one at least once every 10 years y so you know we can hold off completely on this until the summer and see where we are with the housing plan and then do a quick react that says we're going to do a new master plan and the only reason I'm even suggesting doal react I know that the comprehens master plan will probably be you know an 18 month process from beginning to end right at least so it falls into that when we say we stopped the clock does that mean another 10 year time starts yeah and if it I may just to get way into the weeds and um the master plan re-exam the last one was November 2016 so it was close to the backend so we have a year I'm not going to do that Math on the Spot but we have well more than a year and a half okay so maybe we hold off completely for a little while and see where we are when we finish the housing but it'll be helpful to see right your letter of Engagement to have discussion with a variety of stakeholders on what the degree of public input needs to look like what else is on our plate so we can determine what the appropriate timeline is okay and that timeline's probably after the June July period supect right yes yeah okay all right love do that than you I you have two more items on your okay well the well then it's just the master plan and then the master plan is a comprehensive document at a minimum it's required to have goals and objectives a land use plan element a vulnerability assessment and the sustainability element okay and then finally I got a call today about Capital Improvement plan uh programs the municipal land use law does in fact provide that you know if the governing body directs you to do so you can do a complete Capital Improvement program and you know it said for a number of of years um you identify and review all C major Capital Improvement projects in the municipality and interestingly enough the school board as well and um the statue just spells out a lot of the regulatory Provisions the company that it's really hard to contain myself right now finally you think it's a good idea yeah I was asked whether the planning would has the right to do that and it clearly does oh yeah so Joe if I may ask a quick question um from what I understand and again we're sitting in budget meetings right now and So within the council you have to do a six-year Capital plan and the one thing I've been thinking a lot about lately is you know is is is it really the right spot for Council to be making the decisions around things that we would typically discuss in the planning board and and some of the capital projects sometimes become a little bit hairy with the public um and we have all the resources we have our Engineers we have our planners and as the planning board the the reason I was thinking of this as the planning board develops the master plan you know this is the board that truly knows um you know what the capital needs would be for the city and and also what the challenges are around storm water management I mean we have you know many houses falling into the saltbrook right now um so I just I think it was worth a conversation whether or not the governing body would say to the planning board you know we'd like you to look at this I haven't really talked to too many people about it but I think it's worth a good conversation and I like the idea but I at least to get to review it I don't know if we would be um you know we would be reviewing what's brought to us and then at least there is a review because currently there is no review of these millions and millions of dollars that the city's spending so I think that's a good thing all of our residents have to come for review when they have a variance back back to what you were saying there Joe is you're not referring to a state mandated review by the planning board of capital projects that's not what you're refer to you're referring to the planning War's ability to review capital projects that is correct within its scope of work so then my question to Mr Warner is Mr Warner in the other municipalities or Mr Burgess that you that you've seen have you seen a model where the governing body it's not defers isn't the right verb exactly but forms a relationship or some kind of process of perhaps Pro drafting prenter Capital plans sharing them with the planning board and then receiving some kind of recommendation or review like what this is new to Summit I think as best as I can tell the it's not a bad idea my own personal experience is I haven't uh been involved with it uh and I have a fair number uh of planning boards in addition to municipalities and zoning boards and uh been doing this for a few years or so but that doesn't mean anything and I I suspect Mr Burgess may have more experience than I do seen model that works have more gray hair than him um but my experience is the same I could count on one hand in all my years doing this that a municipality has done this a planning board has done this excuse me yeah I've read about it you read the last time we discussed it you said you were familiar with municipalities who review Capital review Capital project reviewing uh you know there are certain individual projects governing bodies we've done that yeah in fact I think we've said that courtesy reviews for Capital no no no I don't mean courtesy reviews actual reviews because there's no there's no recourse whatsoever if it's a curse curs so nothing ever happens correct we say thank you and we smile go wish we got that before construction document but this would most the time it's great but it it would get us in front of it a little earlier at minimum Joe you're not saying that we we have this untapped power to compel the municipality to direct their capital projects in any which way it would still be a consultant the statute says if if the governing body refers it to you right but if you if they don't refer it to you you can touch this so there's a conversation I think to have with cap about how your process runs where we would responsibly kind of Step In perhaps to offer some additional opinion or perspective or engineering what have you um so it doesn't interrupt the necessary Cadence of the cap committee and adds value not just another step in the you know and I think it's really just it's really the governing body saying to the planning board we want you to take a look at the six-year Capital uh six-year capital budget uh Capital plan right so it's saying Capital Improvement for Capital Improvement projects right so it's you know because a lot what happens a lot of times is our Capital Improvement projects come out of committee and then as budget season comes we kind of whack them down and we this year it's not a priority um but I think it I I like the idea and I've our former city administrator and I always disagreed on it but I I like sort of a balance to that because I think this board's important and we're spending a lot of money on projects and is the only place that the public sees the capital project plan the holistic plan would be in the annual kind of December budget meeting budget presentation and even then that t tends to be kind of limited to one years of kind of expenditure so there really isn't a forum plus say it isn't available I'm sure it's on the city website but it's not really available for discussion for discussion that's and and school projects I think it's interesting in light of sort of what we've experienced with things like the Anderson Fieldhouse this year I mean I think there have been some projects that have been kicked down the road um and you know unfortunately what that means is that we now have an emergency and so I think Dil and I have talked about um you know how can we make that not happen so often or ever if possible I mean things happen but um big projects like um parking garages I mean I can think of a lot of things in town that like a lot of our facilities that probably you know are coming up on how how long has Summit been you know been around a long time lots of hundreds of years um so I feel like it's it'd be an interesting way to kind of vet and help prioritize some of those maybe I suppose the fun part for the planning board is that you look at what the need may be how the need is being met but we don't have to worry about the financial element of it we defer to the governing body on those on that but part of it quite frankly would be engineering possibly architect an architect you know certainly not just planning at that point right well just just to give you another example this is you I've got 5050 but you know a lot of times we'll go for grants for a sidewalk project and so I'll give you an example on Mount Vernon we go for a grant we get a couple $1,000 and all of a sudden we get the money and it's a brand new Council and they're like well we didn't apply for the grant and the neighbors's like well this side of the street wants the sidewalks and this side doesn't and all the council members are sitting up there but when you look in like the Union County mitigation uh you know document there's a huge flooding problem and you know so you can see why you know we're so there's a lot of different pieces to getting all this stuff done and I just think it would be helpful to have the planning board sort of be involved in some of those decisions so that when we finally get the money the council isn't like okay we have to figure out whether or not the sidewalk works or not now I would also say you know you know Steve you mentioned about the financial piece the planning board's recommendations can without really focusing on the numbers really help affect the numbers in a positive way prior so having that that feedback would be probably pretty helpful to the city I would imagine because you don't know what you don't know sometimes then you get the bring power in here to help bring that together at propo that maybe it would be beneficial for me to put together a brief memo detailing what the powers that you would have if the governing body were to refer it to you so you would have a better understanding of it all we love a good memo yeah that would be wonderful I love right but you know de de you're TR cap this year right yes yeah so I think it'd be we'll have a discussion kind of offline about how it can snc in with Cap's processes and when would be the right time to inject the planning board and then kind of to your point about the powers we would scale the kind of involvement of the planning board appropriately and maybe begin a practice of involving the planning board as a step in the review and approval of capital projects exactly I would think that you know once you explain it all to us and and maybe the menu of options of how far you go and what we would get involved with or maybe what we wouldn't um then perhaps understanding better the process because it's not going to be like oh this little C now we're going to review that it's going to be somewhat of an automatic thing once it's set up where we've decided it's important to review at least these or be involved in the planning for sidewalks throughout Summit or you know I think we'd probably come up with the menu that we prioritize at first to then have this become part of a flowing process okay yeah that'd be great thank you okay very quick on the state plan oh yes as I told you the state plan did publish the doc document they still haven't published the maps um so we're waiting for that but let's assume is going to happen soon and here Union County is the lead entity for the process um they've already sent out uh information about how they're going to handle the process and the first step is they're asking each municipality in the county to identify three prioritizing goals that that you they want to see um so we could have that discussion at the next meeting but I just want to plant the seed in your heads that you should be starting to think about what are your prioritized goals we should be looking at the the Rex for that um because reason I say that is because it is the equivalent of a master plan right um and that could help even if it's 10 years old now or 9 years old you all does everybody know where to find the master plan it's in my briefcase old school gota look it is online you go online and you go to the city website yeah and paper's great I mean if you're a paper person it's great you should definitely flip through the whole thing um but you can get the pdf version which you can just search any word and then that's almost easier I think because they have a PDF version on there and it says final because there were several iterations says final but they also have the other kind the government that whatever that is but anyway go to the city of summit planning board and then all the documents are there familiar yourself with it go for Brook so ironically we just found yesterday or last week the 1994 uh master plan so Nicole cotigo was scanning that in today and I actually looked at it Steve you have that with you as well so I memorized that one it's actually it's it's fascinating to look at cuz it's it's so old and I'm sitting there reading it today and I was just like oh my gosh so I can't wait it's actually probably going to be up on the website tomorrow but it is actually really cool to look back at that one versus the other ones yeah if I could just add to that I was doing some work for the town up in putham county in New York and going through old ordinances that were trying to update all their codes found a 1906 ordinance that said in the central business district after Sundown if a car is going through the business district somebody must walk in front of the car carrying a light that's amazing and it was never taken off the Box hilarious that's great well they used to do that with the with trains because the trains would go through the city streets so they'd have to like yeah that's fascinating um just on that point procedurally back to the C cross acceptance the three priorities ities I remember that as a question within the cross acceptance for have one of the 10 do we need to formally vote on that how does the planning board need to express its opinion on the three priorities is there something procedurally just so there is a form that they've submitted right but just in terms of process I mean the process is you you do use your master plan documents right and although it's again it's just sorry procedurally when we complete the cross acceptance form do we need as a planning board need to motion accept it it's been 20 some odd years since we've had our every three-year state plan so I'm not concerned about us reaching a consensus on it necessar but just procedurally I mean look bottom line is is it never hurts to have a vote and a doc and some documentation of the vote even if it's a one page which you've seen I can actually do one page a template type resolution you know uh uh see attached um but uh we think about that talk about that it's uh I just want to make sure it's time bound like all of this tends to be and the state accept the state plan has been I mean we've been talking about this in September of last year I mean and before well before that even so yeah it took them a long time to there the last one was 2001 if I'm not mistaken it just to do it every three or years that sounds about right every three every three and it was 20 some OD years AG 23 years all right thank you Joe you're welcome Marie anything you want to add no we talked to your off here I think Joe covered everything in the municipal Landing there nothing left amazing okay have a master's now in planning right well with that it completes our agenda for our reorg meeting our first meeting of the year uh we are adjourned until February 24th 2025 see you that thank you