thank you very good evening and welcome to the April 7 2025 meeting of the city of summit zoning board of adjustment my name is Scott Wilks and I am the chair of the zoning board please rise and join us in the pledge of allegiance i pledge aliance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you in accordance with New Jersey statute 10 col4-10 adequate notice of
the special meeting has been provided to a newspaper record it's been posted here in city hall this meeting is a judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board may legally consider in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to a judicial
hearing must be maintained at all times for the benefit of the interested public this meeting is being livereamed to the city's YouTube page also broadcast on the summit uh government channel which is Comcast channel 34 Verizon channel 30 transcript of this meeting is also being
taken using video and audio so we need all speakers to utilize one of the microphones in the room please note that the fire exits are to my right your left and at the back of the room where you entered the city has a listening system to assist the hearing imperative anyone needs hearing assistance please obtain
the system at the deis and return it thereafter nicole can you call the role please mr kieran oh Mr kieran is excused mr malay yes mr nelson here mr steiner here mr
yuko is excused vice Chair Zan here miss Chief here mr feskins here mr chantuli here mr nearing here chairman Lucas thank you Nicole you have a quorum you may proceed great andy Ball is the zoning board's attorney mr ball advises
the board members on matters of law and is the key interface with the applicant's attorney mr ball does not vote on the applications nicole Kotiga is a city employee and is acting as the zoning board secretary our secretary works with the applicants on preparing their applications planning our agendas
and keeping the meeting minutes board secretary also does not vote on these applications also present are experts who are hired annually by the board to provide input tonight we have Marie Rafé from Kurs and we have Joe Burgess
tonight from Burgess Associates um and he is our acting as our board planner tonight these experts are seated at the table to the right and the public's left they also do not vote on the applications our board consists of seven regular members and up to four
alternates all members of the board can participate in hearings tonight but only a maximum of seven can vote most applications require a simple majority to be approved before we enter into executive session to vote on the application you'll be advised of how many votes are required each case will
begin with the applicants or their attorney giving an overview of the application pro the application process to date and the variances that are required we then hear from any additional expert witnesses the applicant may have to help explain the application and why those variances are needed the board experts followed by the
board members may ask questions of the applicant their attorney and the expert witnesses due to recent cases running excessively long we strongly encourage applicants and their experts to give brief and concise testimony so we may get to as many cases as possible in a given evening once the board members and
the board professionals have completed their questioning the public will have an opportunity to ask questions questions only this is not the time to tell us what you think about the case that opportunity comes at the end of the hearing please be careful as how you phrase your questions they should not be proceeded with a statement about the
case but should be a direct question to the witness also before you ask your questions please clearly state your name spell your last name and provide your address it is important that our court reporter be able to keep a clear and accurate public record after all witnesses have been heard members of the
audience have their second opportunity to speak and that time you may express your opinion positive or negative about the application then the public hearing is closed and we enter into executive session this is where the board members discuss the case and then vote you'll be able to listen to our executive session
but you will not normally be able to participate in our discussion i will ask each applicant and their attorney if present tonight to come up and give a brief synop synopsis of their anticipated testimony including the number of witnesses and whether or not they can finish their presentation
within 30 minutes um I'm going to switch things up tonight so uh for 144 Beakman if you have representative could you please come up thank you so much hello board uh my name is Mario Ibrahim
and spelling my last name is I B R A H I M and I'm here with my wife Anna abraham great and I also have my architect here to answer any technical questions perfect uh so I've been a resident here
for 20 years summit uh and sir well I'll give you a full platform to tell us your whole story but just want to know do you think you'll be able to finish your case in 30 minutes or less oh absolutely all right great so you get to go first okay thank you we'll be with you in one second thank you so much okay sit back
down yes okay thank you we'll be with you shortly i have a representative from 695 Springfield Avenue please yes uh Roger Mayor Lindberry McCormack Esther Brook and Cooper um we have um
this is our second night obviously from three weeks ago we have our architect is uh still in North Carolina because of the shutdown at North Airport okay but we do have our engineer landscape architect and traffic and parking study
engineer Betsy Do ready to testify so we can u you know as much time as we have tonight we can probably fill it all right so you're assuming you probably won't wrap up tonight no we still have planning testimony and then planning and architect and then the u end of the
hearing so Okay yeah so we have the architect has to come back unfortunately something happened at the airport i think they ran out of flight controllers or something so that's fine all right Roger you'll have the rest of the evening so thank you all right great
144 Beakman you're on and if you could raise your right hand I'll swear you in do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do and you already stated your name and spelled your last name and um if your wife will be testifying as well um then same thing
do you swore from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes thank you architect as well we'll get to him once we're ready for architecture testimony okay hello everyone my name is Mario Ibraham 144 Beman Road uh I've been a residence here
for been a resident of Summit for 20 years uh a couple years ago there was a big bad windstorm if you remember 2023 a bunch of trees came down in in in town uh unfortunately one big one uh knocked my whole garage down uh and crushed
everything we couldn't get in we can't even get into the garage ever since because it's been crushed from the top uh I have my wife here who's going to speak a little more and I have my architect here to answer any technical questions you may have thank you thank you very much
yeah so we've been kind of uh challenged with our garage situation you know we have uh two teenagers two driving teenagers so we barely fit four cars in their driveway we park in the street we're on the road on Beakman where Wilson's school is so it does cause a
lot of traffic and congestion on both drop off and on pickup so we you know we're really looking to get it fixed in addition it's an eyes sore everyone that drive by sees it um it's a it depreciates property value not only for us but also for our neighbors so you
know we're just looking to get it fixed and um cleaned up and make it look pretty for the neighborhood great thank you do we have any questions from our board experts for these witnesses i do not okay board do you have any questions for these witnesses
no any questions from the general public for these witnesses no all right let's meet your architect you can raise your right hand uh any mic is fine great thank you so much you'll just have
to turn it on i think we're on yep yep all right please raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do please state your name spell your last name arthur Hen h E N thank you can you briefly describe your background and experience for the board please sure i'm
an architect for 25 years i've been practicing in New Jersey uh licensed in New York as well i've been before this board last um last summer I think it was um been before a number of boards my license is in good standing any questions from the board or would you like to accept him back once again we
will welcome back Mr hen let's proceed all right um there was maybe a quick housekeeping thing um we did an update to the drawings based on some comments um so there is a revision too um I don't know if you guys want to refer to that or is that what you're presenting i do I
do have it right if if you could just mark that as A1 okay and then leave it with our board secretary at the end of your testimony that would be great okay so yeah this is uh the first one and then I'll take this off and then go to the A2 revision two
as you go through please just highlight what was changed since we may not all be able to see that but we we don't have copies of the revision we don't refer to the Okay all right thank you for that
um basically we're reconstructioning a a detached garage this is a 24x 24 detached garage two-car garage uh and it was damaged by the falling tree um the new garage incorporates a gamble roof that relates to the Dutch colonial architecture of the existing home um
there's only electric being brought to the garage there's no water or sewer um the Dutch Colonial uh gamble roof allows us to have a a good attic that'll free us uh space on the first floor so we can park two car uh two cars in the garage
unlike a lot of garages storage we want to be able to utilize uh the first floor as uh parking um we have a couple of hardships it's an undersized lot 15,000 ft is required uh
11,300 ft is existing and the back of the property has a significant hill to the back it's about a 13 foot elevation change in about 40 ft so um that irregular uh issue at the back kind of
uh brings us to have some of these variances um the first variance there's four of them is the sideyard setback for accessory um structure what's required is four feet the proposed garage complies to the four feet but beam we
have that hill in the back we're pulling the garage forward um and so we're not digging into that hill and because we're pulling that garage forward pretty much in the basically the same spot where it is now um we're with the whole uh garage is not
within the rear yard setback uh of the principal structure so that triggers us to make the sideyard set back 15 feet as opposed to the four feet so we need that variance for the four uh 15 ft uh when normally would be four feet we also need a variance for the lot
coverage um this is an existing uh non-conforming issue uh the proposed garage with the improvements uh is unchanged but being that it was an existing non-conforming 132 square feet over the um existing uh we're required to get a
variance for that also the building height uh 15 ft is required um there is a provision that we can go to 18 feet if we match the gamble roof design of the garage or of the house we're matching the design but the pitches aren't exactly the same we're trying to keep
the intent if we were to match the pitches we'd be greater than the 18 ft so we're keeping the aesthetic to match the house but bringing the pitches down a little bit uh to to keep it uh within that 18 foot there's also a variance for the
driveway setback um we're not doing anything with the driveway um it's an existing non-conforming uh two feet required right now the driveway goes right up to the property line we're intending to keep that um there were a couple of uh
comments from the professionals i'll address some of the ones that I thought were kind of hot points um not to ignore any of the other ones um but there was a question regarding the elevation the base the the um uh average grade plan I guess you could say um there's a
calculation on that new plan um that was on the drawing originally but we just kind of clarified that um there was also a question regarding the overhangs on the side of the garage we showed a dash line on the front elevation um nothing really changed we're just
kind of clarifying that the overhangs don't go any closer uh to the property line than we originally showed um there was some comments in the engineering report about the drainage we're going to direct the leaders you know down the driveway similar to what
they are now um we're not required to do any um uh storm water management we're just going to follow the flow that the current conditions you know meet um yeah I just I guess in in closing you
know the we're making improvements here we're you know making a unsafe structure safe again um using the uh ground floor of the garage for parking to limit the need for parking on the street um there's already
a visual buffer so I don't think we're going to have a negative impact on the neighbors there's a mature Abraite row uh right on the lefth hand side of the property line and uh I think that the garage is consistent with other garages in the neighborhood that was kind of a quick No that was
great thank you Mr uh Ford experts any questions for this witness um so so Mr hen and I had spoken um about his application beforehand which resulted in this um this updated plan
which he's presenting tonight and so um I've been able to look at it he did um clarify that even though there's no uh storm water um required for the project he's um he's going to make sure that the uh downspouts are not um directed towards the neighboring property
originally when um the original plan came in they were directed towards the property so wanted to make sure that they move them and and it looks like you've done that um how about any lighting on the building will that um will there be any lighting on it there is an electric plan
and I think we have a couple of sconces on the front uh and that was basically it just some lights at the front okay what um what will the second floor of the garage be used for that's a good point um convers you know if they want to testify to it I can just basically
storage Christmas trees wreaths Easter decorations college kids stuff lawn tools i guess the point is that there's not living space up there there's just going to be electric brought to the to the garage you'll have
electric water heat no water no no heat no no sewer just electric um I think that's all the questions I have great Mr burches uh yeah uh more of a comment than a question because you did address everything that was in our
report it was nice to see that somebody reads our reports every now and then um the issue for the board is whether or not the physical features test or the public benefits test for the positive criteria are affirmed um in this
instance uh he has talked about the steep slopes that affects the ability to locate the garage in a a conforming location and you also mentioned the storm water management improvement so the board could take that into consideration when you balance the public benefits and the physical
features test uh the negative criteria you have to show that there's no substantial detriment to the public good and I believe you touched upon that when you talked about the buffers that exist on the site yep and uh the issue of the second prong of
the negative criteria where there's a substantial impairment to the intent of the master plan technically wasn't addressed i can point out that this is in a single family residential zone um some of the goals of the object of
the master plan talk about consistent land use arrangements and and the like and knowing the areas I know it it seems that this is uh consistent with that and be happy to answer any questions if you have it great thank you Joe i have a
question for Mr purchase one one note um for everyone board members experts witnesses audience please speak loudly and clearly into the microphone i I think we're having trouble capturing um everything that's being said because
we're we're trying to keep a record of it in the back so just a friendly reminder to you can be overly loud it's okay in this case thank you go ahead yes um can you just give us a little bit of um background on the the 18 foot what's
permissible versus just a little bit of information more information on that because um it the roof pitch and all of that what you know um I'm not familiar with the code it is actually an unusual
provision in the zoning ordinance um but in this case the municipality has said that where there's an accessory structure uh with a second floor you're entitled to go up to from 15 to as much as 18 ft where the slope of the roof is
generally consistent with the uh principal dwelling on the property um in this instance while it's not 100% the same you know technically the ordinance doesn't say it has to be 100% the same it has to reflect this the
slope of the roof and when you look at the plans it appears to do so you still have this on so Mr hannah it's your testimony then that the sty the architectural style and the inspiration for the design of the roof takes direct
cues from the existing house yeah it's drawn from the existing house okay and that's you can see that in the photographs of the existing house and then the proposed the current garage that's fallen down just had a gable roof so there's big improvements on this aesthetically if I may add one thing
Christa Anderson in one of her last acts before she retired had reviewed this and had issued a report indicating that this does in fact comply to the intent of the code while we're on that the historical commission um Miss King made a comment
too that it relates as well any other questions from our board for this witness yeah I just have a quick one so you're you're pulling the garage forward the the existing garage is actually being pushed back about Well the new garage is pushed back about a foot and a half uh from the existing oh
so the garage is going backward well yeah trying to push it back a little bit yes yeah because I was I thought I heard you say you were pulling the garage forward so I was wondering why you were extending the driveway oh no well yeah we're pushing it back a little bit yeah we're filling in about a foot and a half yeah thanks
thank you Don mr steiner um well I was just going to ask you quickly what are the differences between what you have and what you're you know what you have and what unfortunately the storm got rid of uh and destroyed for on you
uh what is it that's we're adding electricity and for for the lights there was electric and you're changing the roofing the size is the same the size is a little larger yes by how much
um the current the proposed is 24 by 24 we're probably adding is probably another eight feet wider than the what was originally there if you look at the uh garage plan you can see the silhouette of the existing uh in
relation to the proposed was the existing a onecar garage and is this proposed as two cars it's a one probably was like a one one and a half car garage yeah half a car Mr h well you know understood
any other questions for this yes please yeah so the the the current garage place oh sorry the current garage doesn't have much of a foundation there's a lot of nonconformities right now uh with the current garage so we want to put a we
want to establish everything up to code uh including we we do and we do have electricity right now so it's going to be the same electricity no water no HBAC um so it's it's a lot of improvements in that i I feel more comfortable that it's going to be more code it's going to be
code compliant 100% so from a building code from a building code and NEC and all the NFPA stuff all the safety stuff was there storage on the second floor of the first one we It's not as uh is we didn't have stairs going up to the
second floor to storage but we did have a second level to put storage but it was kind of we had to push it up and this will have a stair we'll have we'll have a a couple steps yeah we'll have a step going up okay to to answer your question
the existing garage was 18.2 feet by 21 and the proposed is 24 by 24 thank you good i have uh two questions one is about the the grade plane um you mentioned some
calculations but we don't know it was just referenced but there were no numbers we don't have it in front of us so can you just go through that for us to let us know where that landed yeah on the foundation plan um we took spot elevations derived from the the survey
that we got that has the topography on it um and we did a little calculation down at the bottom here um and basically it was there was another um cross-section which I think you do have like I said there's some
clarifications on on the A3 sheet the section detail one um it's uh um 2.3 feet above uh the the slab of the floor is the average grade plane so then we work the 18 ft off of that so you have that on that section
but I think we just added So it's not above 18 ft at all like after you recalculated right no no this we're we're keeping it right at 18 ft based on that the zoning's definition of the grade plane and the second question I have is for the homeowners um would you
um put in would you accept a condition that this is not going to be used as living space by you know teenagers um and that it is going to be only for storage absolutely because the height is seven almost 7 and 1/2 ft so really
conceivably it could be used for any number of things so just just electricity no plumbing no HBAC nothing's going to be just as it is today as as it currently is with the just electricity great any questions from the public for
this witness seeing none oh uh questions only all right great uh is there anything you would like to say in conclusion thank you for your time great
miss would you like to come up now as your opportunity if you have a statement you'd like to make state your name spell your last name and please give us your address hi uh my name is Annie Whittle my last name is WHI TL E uh my address is 140 Beakman
Road and I'll just need to swear you in if you could raise your hand do you swear affirm the testimony you're about to give in this matter the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do thank you um I'm the Iraim's direct neighbor so their garage is actually right next door to mine um and I just wanted to come and show my support i
know that they've been very frustrated with their situation as everybody could understand um and I really do appreciate that they've been really open with the neighbors and have kind of shared with us what they want to do um and yeah so I just uh I guess wanted to give a thumbs
up and ask you guys to consider their proposal and uh yeah hopefully they've adhered to everything that you need and and require and um that they can possibly move ahead as soon as possible excellent okay thank you so much mr ball can we have conditions and
number of votes required yes uh so conditions I have first just the general compliance with conditions noted in the board engineers memorandum and second as was just discussed the garage will not be used as living space it will only be used for storage correct um only C
variances are involved in this so four votes are required to approve the application all right we will now move into executive session who would like to begin i think that Okay I think you know there that appreciate the neighbor support uh
appreciate uh your addressing what needs to be addressed thanks to mother nature and uh it looks as if all of our experts even going back to Christa uh have uh the uh the understanding that uh this is
being done the right way and uh I see absolutely no reason no negatives to it and uh the neighborhood will be happy to get the cars off the street and uh folks will be uh happy about that and uh it'll be safer on the street which the police
department will be happier about and uh they won't have to issue any more exemptions for overnight parking uh and hopefully your four your four or five cars uh will all fit so uh I see absolutely no reason that this should not move forward great mr nelson I'm
just going to support this application make it quick and easy well said thank you sir i just have to give him the I I I can support this application also um couple things I just want to um note the neighbor I love when we hear neighbors that are happy and supportive
of it that means a lot that way weighs that has a a large weight also um Historic Preservation Commission loves your design that you're matching with the house love that you get you're doing you're rebuilding but you're improving the looks of the garage and I'm jealous
that you have to have that extra storage because my h my garage is 100 years old so um I can support this great uh I too can support this application um I agree there are certainly uh some ex existing condition
hardships uh that factor in undersized lot and uh I I do appreciate your efforts to work with your architect to get a design that is uh very complimentary to your existing home which is beautiful um and I think the
size uh that you're asking for is entirely reasonable and it and it's uh true of your variance as well there's nothing outrageous in terms of percentages or areas that you're asking for uh so with that Nicole could you please call the role for vote oh wait
can I get a motion every time all right have a second thank you mr malay yes mr nelson yes mr steiner yes Miss Zan yes Miss Chief yes Mr fes yes Mr tanuli yes Mr nearing chairman Lucas yes
congratulations good luck thank you thank you guys okay sir can I please have the the exhibit thank you could you also uh send updated PDFs when
you Oh perfect thank you thank you Mr hen appreciate that thank you yeah no problem all right now for the main attraction 695 Springfield Avenue
take a minute i can introduce uh tonight please while we're setting up um again Roger Mayor Lindber Cooper we represent Beacon Unitarian um just a couple things uh after uh our hearing night three weeks ago i realized
I did misstate one thing in in my uh opening back then i I said that the property was 1.66 acres it's actually 1.744 so it's a little bigger than I picked that up from another mistake in the file that uh shall remain nameless but in any
event um there are a couple uh changes that we've uh uh proposed uh since the last hearing and we've submitted some exhibits and you'll hear well we don't have the architect tonight but you'll at least hear about some of them we've tried to eliminate a couple of the
variances and and uh make one of the variances uh smaller so we've eliminated the two variances for signage the sign conforms so that's done we uh moved the outdoor patio which required a variance that had a sideyard uh encroachment
we're able to move that closer to the building it's on the side of the building adjacent to the paddle courts so that is no longer in an location that requires a variance um more significantly we had the architect go back and look at the floor plan of the
sanctuary and we changed the floor plan a bit we extended the chancel which is the stage for lack of a a better term to make that a bit larger that's where the actual uh
efficients uh that take place but it reduced the amount of seating available on the floor of the sanctuary and we reduced the space in the available for seating in the balcony as well so the
total seating now in the at normal setup versus in the round which I'll get to is now 236 seats that's on the first floor in the balcony includes six seats in the cry room upstairs in the balcony so
that's 236 seats so that directly impacts the number of required parking spaces as well okay so that we were working with 300 seats 100 parking spaces it takes the parking load down to 79 uh in the round the seating is about
150 it's actually 152 and as we said there are certain u times during the year that worships conducted in the round and that's 152 seats so even smaller um the other thing we did do was have our u there was a comment from the
board's engineers uh suggesting that we take a look at putting some tandem parking in uh that would be Sunday only but would be sort of stack cars and there's a location where we could do that we can get four more spaces that would be in a
conforming location so those additional four spaces wouldn't encourage on any of the setbacks but they would be available so that would take the on-site parking from 42 up to 46 so uh you know push on one side pull on the other we have uh
tried to be uh um thoughtful and cooperative about getting that parking variance uh minimized uh as best we could so uh the the architect will have to testify next time about the layout and floor plan so forth so I just wanted to mention that
tonight but um you know our engineer can testify about the additional parking great and so forth so if there are any questions for me otherwise I'll just introduce Go for it this is John Cody from Langan Engineering and he's our site engineer hi John we're going to
swear you in you raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matter the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth i do please state your name spell your last name john Cotay last name spelled C O T E i work for Lang and Engineering and Environmental Services out of Paripony
New Jersey thank you and can you briefly describe your background and experience for the board sure i'm civil engineer graduated from Stevens Institute of Technology in 1986 i've been a licensed engineer in the state of New Jersey since 1992 u I've worked in the industry
my uh PE is in good standing uh and I've been before uh numerous municipalities excuse me throughout the state any questions from the board would you like to accept his credentials we will welcome Mr c please appreciate proceed
so John just uh you were the engineer one of the engineers at Lang directly responsible for preparing the site plan that's correct and you're familiar with uh the plans that have been filed with the board and the application and you've heard the testimony of uh Reverend Tanner and first yes I have okay fine
well I'd ask you then if you could just uh in a narrative way walk the board through the site plan sure so I have on the screen right now what is basically referred to as the site plan and the site plan set that we submitted this is drawing CS 101 and this drawing has both
the zoning table plus all the primary features of the site identified so what I'll do is I'm going to walk through quickly uh through the layout of the site and I'll do some it's okay to zoom in and out of the photograph of the image excuse me yes so starting
with along Springfield Avenue we are connecting to Springfield Avenue on the east side of the site basically it'll be a two-way driveway coming in the two-way driveway will lead into a parking field that runs up through the north side of the site providing the 42 spaces that
was referred to earlier and I'm going to introduce an exhibit in a little bit with the changes that were just referred to as part of our overall site plan changes so the the site driveway comes in has uh proceeds through the parking area has a turnaround at the end the
parking spaces are provided a series of both handicap as well as standard spaces and then the feature you see here in a dark gray is a solar canopy positioned over the top of the parking spaces uh an entrance shrive coming uh entrance walkway into the facility there are a
number of sidewalks provided there's walkways uh throughout the site the walkways both the primary entrance into the building on the east side plus additional sidewalks that meander through the site to connect both to the back side of the site as well as through into the parking fields and there's
various areas here that are uh part of the overall landscaping plan will be part of the landscaping testimony and provided more detail the site has a series of variances associated with it i'll start with the variances and walk through them and and I will amend uh three of those
variances as I talk to or four of those variants excuse me as I talk through the edits that we'll make on the uh site as a whole so initially the site is a 1.7 uh three excuse 1.74 acre uh property in where two acres is required the variance
for the uh site front yard setback is where 50 is required we're providing 42.7 and that frontage basically is associated that uh jog into the front yard is basically an architectural feature associated with the building and
it's this triangle area you see right here as part of the uh facade on the southwest side of the site going through then the setback for the uh sideyard uh 50 is required we're providing 28 the existing that was there
on the prior building was 26.8 we're bringing that up to 28 feet from the existing condition the setback for excuse me sorry the building height for the site uh where 35 is required we're at 37.9 and that'll be elaborated under the
architect's testimony to explain where that occurs and it's basically the front edge of the building that has that exceedence otherwise the rest of the building is below that elevation with respect to the lot coverage uh we're taking where 40 is permitted we're bringing it to
47.5 associated with all the features that we'll be talking about through the site both the parking the building and some of the amenity space on the site the building coverage is where 15 is permitted we're bringing it to 15.6 basically the footprint is an
11,895 square footprint upgrade with a two-story structure total square footage of 19,264 then the sideyard uh when we look through the sideyard buffer R47 is required uh our table here shows 9.8 but
we've modified that to 10 so our variance would be for a distance of buffer distance of 10 and that occurs on the east side of the site adjacent to the sidewalk uh provided next to the parking area the the next variance is respect to
the uh rear yard buffer where 50 is required we're providing 15 the and that occurs basically associated with the limit of where the parking on the north end of the site occurs that provides that's where the 15 foot is set back
then with respect to parking uh set back where 20 is required we're providing 15 and again that goes to the same uh area where on the north side and on the east side we're adjacent to those property lines going through then the accessory
structure uh solar as a canopy so excuse me solar canopy as an accessory use is considered a um access a variance so requesting uh for allowing us to put solar canopies on top of the parking spaces the next variance is the setback
uh which is the minimum setback for an accessory structure uh where 15 is required we're at 10.4 four and that again is the solar the solar canopy structure adjacent to the east side of the site looking at the um
no I apologize i'm sorry the sideyard accessory structure that's for that variance i apologize is the um uh portion of the landscape uh amenities that are on the west side and I'm going to refer to that in our exhibit and to to shift that to eliminate that
particular setback variance so then going through the parking uh the existing uh drawings reflect the 100 parking spaces based upon the 300 seats that was referred to earlier that'll be revised based upon the 261 seats and
I'll present that in my uh slide that'll change the variance uh from what we're proposing here to to a lower number and I'll put that on record for the next with that next drawing uh with respect to uh the variance for minimum parking lot landscaping the one shade tree per 10
space excuse me apologies the one shade tree per 10 spaces we're asking for zero we're incorporating the solar canopy into this and we're actually providing a number of trees throughout the site uh and a rather robust landscaping plan i'll be referred to by the landscape architect uh and that's the nature of
the variance for the to allow the parking to be uh set up on site as to the degree possible understanding that's a sensitive issue as well so looking then at the uh the last two uh variances that's on our table which is the maximum sign area where previously we proposed
12 uh 18 ft where 12 was provided we are going to look to amend that in tonight's testimony to bring that back down to compliant so we'll be eliminating that variance the maximum lettering height size as well will also go from the 7.5 in where six is permitted will be
revised down to 6 in uh for another exhibit that we'll provide tonight that'll eliminate that variance so then to support the the nature of why we're reducing some of these variances I'm going to introduce a new exhibit this is exhibit 05 the exhibit is entitled proposed site
plan modifications it's dated March 26th 2005 and I believe we're at exhibit A i think we're just at A2 two a2 i think it's two okay all right so we'll label that as A2 i do have uh smaller uh 11
excuse me 11 x 17s that I can hand out to the board like please that' be great no problem thank you okay magnifying glass so what this exhibit illustrates is basically a few opportunities we took to try and reduce the number of variances
on the site uh in addition to the parking variance that was referred to based that the architect will testify to with respect to the number of seats reduced in the overall facility we looked at some site features to see what we could do on site in particular on the west side of the site there's an area
illustrated in red where we had the original 10.4 ft for setback buffer uh reduction variance required to now moved it to 15 feet to make it compliant so that'll eliminate that particular variance the parking that was referred to earlier
with respect to the tandem parking would be a provision to allow for two parking spaces to be stacked on the northeast end of the site the four parking spaces would be utilized during uh summer excuse me uh Sunday services to allow for the added capacity of the four
spaces uh on the illustration we included the fact that because this side of the site grades down we're going to require a retaining wall to allow us to be able to facilitate putting in those spaces and then associated with those spaces there is an uptick in our uh lot
coverage to accommodate those four additional spaces where previously when I testified to the 47.5% if those parking spaces are amendable to the board that would bring that lot coverage to 48.6% 6% additionally as we make our way down
toward the uh front of the site where the sign structure is we're going to be revising that sign structure to the smaller size and smaller lettering size to eliminate those two variances so the overall parking count on the site will become 46 based upon the seat count um coming
down to 236 spaces uh seats excuse me our parking space is required then um we'll go down to 87 79 what's that 79 oh 79 okay all right i'll revise that if that's the case uh and then our parking
space on site would be 46 so then uh going through then the table uh those variances will be revised and if amendable again to the board or to the and to the review of the professionals they're deemed acceptable we'll incorporate those into the
plan so next on the site plan overall I'm just going to touch upon just some of the other aspects of the project site uh we provided within the package a firet truck circulation plan this is CP 101 this is in the original submissions
to the uh city and within that uh we received a favorable letter from the fire department with respect to the uh configuration that we provided looking then at the next um drawing is our grading plan just to give everyone a perspective on the how
the building will lay out relative to the adjacent grades uh the street along Springfield Avenue varies from elevation 354 on the east end down to 341 on the west end so that 13 foot differential uh occurs as Springfield Avenue slopes down
as you're heading toward uh by the site heading to the west the site itself then the building will be at 359 or approximately uh 6 feet above the entrance and approximately u 18 excuse
me 8 ft my apologies u yeah 18 ft above the western end my apologies the area that's that the building occupies at 359 runs throughout the site as it makes its way to the back in the back area we come off the building slope down for the
parking and then down further towards the park the area I referring to earlier where the tandem parking spaces is proposed would be a modification to the grading at that northeast corner of the site where instead of a sloped embankment we would introduce introduce a retaining wall to to support the
building of those additional spaces so then the site itself has a series of amenities um and I I'm not going to refer to the amenities by their function and I'll let that be a part of the landscape architect's testimony but each of these areas is provided for a
walkable site to allow for activities to occur through the site connected between both the west end and the east end north and throughout and then we have provided a connection to the existing um side portions of the property line on the southwest end and the northwest end
of the site to connect into the public lands to allow for the act if people were to be utilizing the uh site for a way to to walk it maintains that connection today so the next thing I'll show is the grading excuse me the drainage plan excuse
me and the drainage plan basically is drawing CG 102 and the site has a series of a number of what referred to as best management practice measures which are storm water measures to address water quality water quantity
control so the site is governed by your ordinance which also then requires us to comply with NJ requirements so the number of items and features that are shown on here are meant to address all of those different items the site is compliant relative to its storm water
design to meet both the water rate reduction requirements as well as the water quality requirements uh some of the elements that are there are proposed along the south end of the site is an underground detention system depend uh based on a a series of uh we refer to as
the coldtech recharger systems then a series of underground detention system um with infiltration on the east side of the site just a series of underground perforated pipes allowing for recharge into the groundwater then also have underneath uh our parking our parking
spaces are predominantly porous pavement porest pavement provides an additional water quality measure again another measure the D uh supports or promotes as a way to address water quality uh so with respect to the overall site
addressing the water quality the water quantity and the groundwater recharge are all measures required by your ordinance and are being met by this design next part of the drawing next drawing I'll put up quickly is just the utility plan for just simple uh to explain that we are connecting out to
Springfield Avenue this is drawing CU 101 and we're connecting the sanitary on the northeast side of the site we're bringing electric to the southwest and communication and water uh transformer pad will be positioned on the southwest corner of the site and provide services
into the building so everything will stem from Springfield Avenue to support the building and then the last drawing I'll put up is the lighting plan the lighting plan illustrates a series of different lighting elements throughout the site there are what referred to as
pedestrian level lighting on a number of the features the amenities I was referring to earlier as well as lighting for the parking area and then uh part of the lighting for the parking areas is provided by lighting under the solar canopies the lighting will be subject to
the hours of operation based upon compliance with the city ordinance so that'll be uh for the purpose of uh timing it'll be based on what the ordinance permits the type of lighting fixtures we have um are illustrated on our next plan which is the lighting
notes uh and light notes and notes plan LL501 and they're a combination of both our uh polemounted fixtures as well as pedestrian ballard fixtures some fixtures that uh provide for spotlight
uh type accentuation or uh down lighting from the canopy structures um the uh the canopy and the different features as an example there's illustrations of the type of lighting provided under the solar canopies that I provided as well
as canopies associated with the entrances to the facility the lighting is uh dark sky compliant relative to the overall fixtures that we've provided and it provides a u a layout that provides both safety
measures for the uh walking around the facility uh throughout the various features as well as for the parking and pedestrian uh access to the building so the lighting is also is designed not to shed light onto adjoining property that is correct and compliant with the
ordinance for the uh cut offs at the along the properties property lines and just on the drainage just to clarify so the groundwater management complies with all current regulations requirements that is correct uh a couple other just are there bicycle
racks showing up uh yes bicycle racks provided on the site total number of bicycle uh racks give me a moment I want to say 16 but I just uh don't want to misquote that i I'll have to
I'll confer with the landscape architect to confirm that number okay well she can and then are there is there a location for outdoor trash storage or disposal outdoor trash will not be there's it's interior to the building proper and brought out during garbage days for
pickup okay so it's just brought out in cans there's no dumpster correct no dumpster no trash enclosure anything of that nature it's all managed inside the building okay thank you great and one last question is the site not the building obviously but the site
ADA compliant yes it is okay thank you i have nothing further from Great this witness board experts do you have questions for this witness first um sure i'll start off um could you talk a little bit about the
um the solar canopies um maybe the height of them the um the drainage on them sure so they their height is based on they have a tilt mount uh so there's a vertical pole that will mount they'll u maintain the top structure and it can be tilted between a 12 to 14 foot height
depending on the angle it's put at for the inclination for the sun so varying height between 12 to 14 under the 18 that's permitted okay so meaning that it'll be at a fixed location it's not moving no not moving no no they're not moving just wanted to clarify that and
and Right and they're and the the they'll be guttered for collection of rain water or any type of drip line out to the system we have um combination of underground piping within proximity that the leaders can be collected to okay um
it it looks like that maybe that um that rip wrap apron um that's in the norththeast corner of the site is that in conflict with your tandem parking spaces or is that Yeah so just for that illustration um so this one shows it
actually you know what I'll introduce another exhibit which is EX06 uh which talks a little bit further about the uh that particular area so ex6 is provi prop proposed site plan modification grading plan modifications
grading plan it's dated March 26th as well is this all part of A2 or is we could make it part of A2 or they were submitted at the same time or you can make it A3 if you'd like you have A3 already let's call it A3 then thank you sir
thank you thank you so to answer your question what EO6 represents is showing the same retaining wall that was reflected in EXO5 but also the identification that this will also be included in the porest pavement
component in terms of the drainage structures the blue dash lines are tying into the subsurface uh drainage component of the porous pavement and then the head wall would have to be reconfigured uh excuse me the flared in section would have to reconfigured to be integrated into the head wall into the
uh retaining wall okay how about the um the tandem parking spaces it it um it shows that you have a maximum um height of about four feet do you do you anticipate having some guardrails at the end we could we put
enough gap and space behind the wall and the parking spaces to introduce guide rail and potentially fence for fall protection and again it would be similar to any other feature here we'd want to uh incorporate it and have you review it from a design point of view okay um you don't have any wheel stops in this
parking lot at all do you curb stops or Yeah the wheel stops at the end no no none are proposed okay all right so I I would think that that the guardrail at the end would be would be sufficient for that okay okay um can you talk about um the electric
vehicle charging stations and um Oh sure when people can park there how is how does that work yeah so the to for the based on the current uh regulations that are required uh EV parking spaces are provided and they're positioned adjacent
to the first row of parking as you come in and the parking spaces themselves uh service there's a single uh type of can of type of uh excuse me the uh plug suction the the head of the unit my
apologies for losing my words here that would serve as two parking spaces adjacent and then the two you see here on the screen the second one addresses the need for one ADA parking spacing to be allowed to be utilize the EV parking
so it'll be signed for EV parking um they'll the we didn't take credit for the EV parking that the allowances uh in the current regulations give you but so but we're just we are providing them as a part of the overall site and our total
is four PV parking spaces is there a can people park there um once their car is done charging do they have to move it is there a I operations wise i imagine the church would maintain some form of operation but it is intended for people to charge out I suspected it
would be used during services along those lines where people would park for that longer period of time okay how about any mechanical equipment or generators on site just the transformer that's proposed along the southwest corner of the site everything else I
believe is roof mounted but the architect can speak to that okay will the architect be talking about the uh green roof yes that yes okay save that question um we did review the uh the storm water
and uh it appears that everything is is in compliance with their storm water um design there may be some minor tweaks but nothing that would be anything that um that would that would be a problem to fix can you talk about the lighting on
site is there are there dimmers motion sensors um anything along those lines i'm not aware if they're proposed to do dimmers um right now the lighting is set up to be there'll be some internal circuitry I'm sure within the within the service
from the building that'll control different lights at different times so what I would suspect is the parking would be under its own circuit you'd have circuits for the purposes of the uh amenity space areas um but I'm not aware of any dimmer type of scenar scenario
for that okay I think that's all I had at this time okay great thank you Marie joe yes uh hi John uh couple of questions from my memo uh first off how did you determine the number of required parking spaces so
three seats per parking space was the initial basis of it um so we again I didn't take credit for the EVs as far as like our count uh so we use that and then the architect is going to provide testimony to reducing the seat count by modifying the internals of the building
the stage area as it was said uh to reduce it down to the new uh 261 divided by 3 okay um the ordinance provides that where you have a mix of uses in a building you look at each ordinance
requirement for type of use i was not here at the last meeting so I didn't hear the testimony from the deacon but I understand that there's the sanctuary there's administrative offices that are identified on the architect's plans uh there's I gather a reference to
an educational component which I didn't see on the site plan on the in terms of the floor plans but there's a reference to it in a note in the architect's plans and then there's a reference to event space that may be rented out to others
um is it and I and nowhere on the floor plans does it show event space so I'm not sure if you're removing seats from the sanctuary for that yeah i don't want to speak at a term where it'll say operations there is no events but as far as I There is no
event as far as I know okay there's no events that's good to hear um but could you provide a different parking standard by calculating the amount of administrative offices and use the parking standard in the ordinance for
that component maybe I should respond to that i mean we did discuss that at the last hearing and um you know the ordinance honestly is vague can you speak to the mic please yeah the audience the ordinance is quite vague in this respect because it has a parking
requirement for the sanctuary which makes a lot of sense because that's the peak use of any house of worship but for instance in this instance if you took the parking requirement and read it to require parking based on the entire
building you end up with four or 500 part i mean it it leads you to an absurdity so and I agree I agree with all so our approach has been the maximum to to talk about what the maximum number of people that are going to be in this place at any one time are that's why we
pushed down the number of seats because we were trying to minimize that so when we talk about education space for instance we're talking about religious education which either happens you go to church and the kids go to to church school at the same time or maybe the
teenagers come Sunday night but it's not two separate uses drawing two different groups of people at the same time understood i think because the ordinance does talk about providing where there's a mix of activities uh it doesn't say where
they're separate and happening at different times it just requires the number and what you're saying may be a rationale for some form of relief but I think it would be beneficial to have the number so we understand the magnitude of well the code testified to the square
footage of the building and the architect can do that okay we did talk about it in the first hearing okay so did he talk about a different number i introduced it and I talked about the size of the building okay and what the parking requirement might be so what I'm
asking for then is a breakdown of administrative space um sanctuary space and well you said there's no event space um an educational space because there's
a a separate standard in the ordinance on those three things the the architect's going to have to do Okay that's fine i didn't expect an answer tonight yeah that's the basis the basis was the three for the space okay
um the retaining wall question that was just asked before um the retaining wall behind those uh four tandem spaces that's at a height of four feet correct okay um in our memo we pointed out that
the fire truck template that was used uh provides for a kturn turn movement and it appeared that the kturn turn movement encompassed a couple parking spaces which may or may not be occupied when right an emergency happens is there a
way to adjust that somehow or So we looked at the idea of the originally what we had was more or less like we looked at a hammerhead idea at the end and the hammerhead idea basically uh reduced the it it didn't provide for the
same kind of turnaround that the for the uh people attending to be able to leave a parking space or if they don't find a parking space available to go through and wrap around come back out so this was the prefer preferred alternative to a hammerhead type setup hammerhead would
allow for more parking but then it doesn't have the same kind of circulation and connection to the amenity space you see down below uh I'll show you on the screen here this lower section when you look at the I'll zoom in there a little bit further so this allows for a drop off to
allow people to use this also so if they don't find a parking space they can drop off someone who may need to rather than walk get closer to the building can exit here and then the people can go for separate parking spaces offsite and I assume then what you're anticipating is if there's an
emergency somebody's going to have to just wait until the fire trucks are well yeah in an emergency like that pull out yeah the activity would occur without Yes that's correct okay we did raise the question about the solar canopy it seemed to be unclear
that the canopy with his minimum 8 and 1/2t clearance um was in the path of some of the turning movements uh not for the fire truck that's what we utilize that's what the break in the solar canopies are there for but for the uh cars parked there is with with the
footings for the canopy is there enough clearance for that oh yeah we'll have the footings at the back end of the park of the space proper so they were on the spine so they won't interfere with the parking okay um we had a note in our report about the cap on the maximum color
temperature at 3500 Kelvin you agree to that we agree to that yes okay um are is the location of all ground and roof ground mounted equipment is that all screen i couldn't yeah we have the only ground mounted piece of equipment
is this transformer pad you see up front and that basically is right now sitting on a small retaining walls to support a level run that's where the site dips off down to the end uh we typically don't screen them for access to that i understand for the yeah for the um and
for roof mounted equipment i guess the architecture um in reviewing the zoning table uh we pointed out in our memo that it appears you also require a variance for fa e floor area ratio you're just a little over but yeah I believe that's just in
the architect's testimony yeah he can cover that it's a it's 300 square feet the couple is not that large but it has to be addressed and then the more global question you know you exceed building coverage you exceed impervious coverage
i think one of those you're the requirement is like 15% you're at 15.6% you know typically when you ask for a larger number it's easier to justify than just such a small overage could you talk about why you so have to
go for that relief so a lot of that will play into the architectural element of the design because the the internal programming associated with it I'm sure is what led to those elements there's small features that are architectural in nature and areas that are for example
our front yard setback with that small notch I referred to in my testimony those are things that lend to that overall but they're not necessarily like a an excess of space being asked for it's just the the nature of the shape of the building creating these spaces so I would I would leave it
to the architect relative to why the programming is what it is that went through a lot of iterations to get the planner will testify the planner will testify that as well nothing else great thank you Jeff questions for this witness from the board i have some
um so three questions one is about the variances for the solar canopies um and and maybe this is for Mr burgess um but when there's there's discussion of the max height of the solar canopy
and the the setback of the solar canopy and it says that they comply however I is that an interpretation given the fact that this is not allowed as an accessory structure so how could it comply like if it's on the roof of
the building it's different but this is to me I just want to know is that a C for sure or is that No actually it's a Dvariance because so the ordinance specifically prohibits Okay where that says uh that it conforms those should
actually be a Dvariance correct okay um so that is under accessory structures to to other variances and then um second question is about pvious pavers can you um tell us how uh what the maintenance
plan is for that i believe there is some required maintenance for that yeah in this case it's the the porest pavement proper is porous asphalt and the porous asphalt requires that instead of using typical um uh sweepers you would use vacuum type
trucks that would actually use this and you'll see this now throughout the state in terms of the way the D has made this a priority of their particular water quality measures that they offered to the development community so it requires that they be vacuumed for the purpose it's a vac truck as opposed to a typical
sweeper and then what is the maintenance schedule for that uh really just depends on the debris in terms of the need to clean it there's it's on a as needed basis there really from a maintenance point of view it can be looked at um you know sometimes you could say quarterly
but I really think it's based on the mo the need at the time so I I would leave it to the need to maintain it relative to the condition so the example is you have a uh a rough winter right you'd come in during the winter months and do the vacuuming on a more regular basis
than you would in the summer there's less you know things being spread salts and materials that would tend to be part of that um I guess would there be um a minimum amount of inspections a year sure oh oh sorry yeah from from that
point of view yeah we provided an operations and maintenance manual that includes those inspections in the in the actual system um what I could do is I'll show you real quick where that is bear with me for just one moment so the operations maintenance manual is
a requirement under the storm order regulations that propagated through the town the city's uh acceptance of the D standards this actually has to be recorded at the county level and rides with the land of the property so the maintenance requirements of this are actually formally adopted onto the
property and what this does is identifies the nature of the property the nature of the features on the site the different measures that are there uh these porous asphalt systems are referred to the underground detention systems and there are inspections for that purpose so inspections are required
and I can go down through and and show you as an example here uh porest pavement uh there's three different porest pavement systems here uh this is actually just describing the system let me get to the uh the maintenance component of it inspections and maintenance and this
is in the documents provided to the city as part of our overall submission so there's a maintenance cost put for the purpose of the actual um maintenance overall this is a a funds put aside for that purpose the vac truck is a is is
identified in there for the purpose of the porous pavement the buyer retention is for inspections to identify anything needs to be cleaned out if there's any types of um uh clogging of the pipes things along those lines um and then uh trash debris just you know in terms of
uh bianual is what we show here um one per uh uh per year is the upper uh components so to answer your question at least once a year that it's vacuumed but I put that back to it's it's the nature of what you see if you want to clean it
up you basically hire the back truck to come in and clean it um yeah i feel like that needs to be inspected seasonally at least or something just to make sure that it's Yes it's I don't see that in there that that's what this says right here this is
performed annually and you're saying seasonally which is you're thinking four seasons versus looking at it from a annual basis right right okay okay and then my my last question is can
you um explain the K turns a little bit more in the event that there's an emergency during a service like let's just say a holiday service when you have peak parking you have a a fire truck pull
in and then there park all the parking spaces are filled how does the fire truck get out so the fire truck right now would pull in and the the turnaround that we have at the end isn't doesn't support the full KT turn component we
looked at whether or not we could expand that and that would create additional encroachments of our into the setbacks that we're asking relative to the 15 ft um we could we looked at this area and in order to do that we would lose uh and
and provide let's say a turnaround for a firetr we will lose some of the tree plantings that we proposed in that area so we considered it at one point in time and then basically found that through removal of the canopy structure components we could support the turnaround but to your point if it's
full the truck would have to back back out based on that or use the K turn create more of a K turn scenario in the roundabout but the K turn goes into the parking spaces you can't use a K turn if they're full then they would they would have to go into the turnaround and do a
multi-k multi-point turnaround in the roundabout that I show at the end of the parking area to to your point it would take an expanded amount of paved area or or porous as additional pavement around
this roundabout to allow to do a a truck firet truck turnaround in that area so the truck could turn around there or I mean you said two first you said it would have to back all the way out and then you said a multi point so without without changing the circle it'd have to
back out if they were to do a multi-point K turn is actually just a three-point turn right but if they were to do additional multi-point turns there's a possibility they could use some of that pavement associated with this t circle to make the turn but it's
not a simple truck and turn that could pull in and turn around and come back out in that current roundabout at the end so if you want to accommodate a larger turnaround it would require a larger asphalt area you know to expand it basically it's a similar to the the
size you see where the K turn is today basically superimpose that area and I'll zoom in on it just to kind of illustrate it but if you were to superimpose this area onto this area it would create a larger paved area required to make the turnaround
so I'm not sure I don't think I'm answering the question the way you want to hear it i think just to make sure that I'm understanding it at the current design right if if all the parking is in at capacity the fire truck has to back all the way out there is no turning around right it's going to go back fully
out right that's correct thank you and there's no fire lane in the back right so there's no ladder access to the back of the building is that correct there's no fire lane in the back correct
mr malay you have a question yes i'm looking here at the site lighting schedule you have and I see like uh E6 and E8 there are like 46 of those and before uh they are
they excessive yeah these are the pedestrian level at the ground level benchmounted lighting so if you were to walk down a pathway and there are benches or in the amenity space area where you see this type of feature here this is a series of benches around this
radial feature and then those lighting components are underneath to create kind of a soft lighting on the ground for to so you have a visible we don't have any overhead lights that light that area those lights are only projecting on the ground below the benches to create a
ground effect the E8 that's on the E6 that you're referring to how about the and and the E8 is referred to as a um a canopy down light and these lights if you look as an example underneath the canopies um
there's actually a photograph type of view of it i'll show you in a second but these reside under the solar canopies and are basically below the solar panels proper so they're they're at the the underside of the canopy and if this particular image is an example this is
not a solar canopy uh array but this gives you an idea what they look like so on the one image here where you see these are mounted underneath okay that's the type of lighting we're talking about thank you Don
um with this expansion of the I guess it's four spaces in that little area was there any thought to move the the can the solar canopy on top of that to free up some space for the for the fire apparatus and turning around we could shift those solar canopies to the back if I just need to refer to ask the
client just to confirm that's accepted you know might it might help in some some areas and perhaps um I mean let's be honest they're going to back out they're not going to do the K term it was you know Yeah it's we reflected it on the plan to show the um the fire and
um may you I don't know i was reading the fire chief's notes here is there um remote fire department connection do you know there would be one the architect would work with the department on that and then can you can you elaborate a little bit on the um open
pathways from what would be the west side so is was there I'm going to put you kind of on the spot here was there an anticipation that parking would be used at Wilson Park and that would be an access point for resident I mean for the church yeah that's not the intent of
those the intent was to allow for people who utilize the site today knowing that there's a connection through that they would be still allowed to use that connection and it allows a connection to the I guess the open space areas like it's it's not they can be removed if the board so sees but it was meant to be
connected for the purpose of pedestrian access only no parking and maybe this you have a parking expert I would assume that's correct yes perhaps that could be a condition that that those lots couldn't be used Yes yeah none none of our projections are
based on using that parking wall so thank you can you elaborate on that on that um the path going to Wilson Park you're saying that that's for just pedestrian access pedestrians which pedestrians i Well if in the earlier testimony in the last session uh
Reverend talked about coming through the site people that utilize it to walk maybe their dog they're they're they're it's a it's an accommodation for what is anticipated to be the community not so much the the people using the facility itself is that going to be um a condition because I know the current
place there's a big sign you know no trespassing to go if you wanted to like from Waldron to go back to the parking lot there was a big sign do not you know no trespassing so I mean that sign will not that sign will not rem no no no no i'm talking about the
current um home of the beacon on Waldin oh I can't I can't speak to that i don't know yeah apologize i'm not familiar with that condition okay just because Yeah and then the the other thing is I mean I guess same along those same lines is what there's going to be somebody testifying about parking
yes you said okay I have the rest my questions there thank you do you know off the top of your head what the solar panels or solar canopy service is it for the main building is it supply light for exterior yeah it's for the main building proper it's basically just Oh the um I
apologize i don't know the the generation but it's below the the building's capacity it has to be sized to it's a net meter zero doesn't doesn't go in in exance of the building's requirements you're not selling anything back to No no yeah net net zero or net
net meter excuse me one more question did you guys do a solar study or shade study to see whether or not production on the east side of site is going to be functional for I have not it could be yeah it can be looked at as far as additional uh to get an idea what the the the canopy
manufacturer has seen this layout and supporting of it so we're based on that i'm sorry just another question sure um you mentioned that all the um the I guess the pavement's going to be um it's
water porous combination yeah the the parking spaces will be porous pavement and everything's sloped toward the front because I know the backyard slopes away so how does that work yeah we draw our our water goes internal to the parking field and it goes through a series of under subsurface drainage pipes and then
it's piped out based on that that's considered part of the treatment train for the water leaving then it's piped out into the basins and and then from there to the discharge point is there any um uh what's the word I'm looking for fuel leak oil leak is there is that any
different than normal pavement yeah it's it's the same and and basically that's one of the reasons they they came up with forest pavement they want for minor things like that to be addressed by this as a water quality measure okay just one clarification May thank you for bringing this up the there is no is
there a state mandate for annual inspection or semiannual inspections of these systems as in they would storm water retention ponds i know other municipalities have this the state mandates that you provide a maintenance program and the program that we provided in that O andM manual I was referring to
earlier is based on that but the state doesn't have a specific other than I would say if what they refer to as the best management practices manual that it's an annual or bi-annual depending on the type of device some devices for example have vegetation in them like not
this particular setup here they require quarterly just for maintaining the vegetation portion of it but in this case what we have in the O andM operations and maintenance manual is the current prescriptive requirements in that the state changes that would
would they automatically have to comply with the new jurisdiction or new requirements no normally your grandfathered in based on when you got your approvals good mr steiner just one quickie uh is there
any storm water management on the site currently and if so does it work there's there's there's only you at least look it's Yeah it's there's there's what appeared to be possibly an old version there was a little tiny uh sumpt area in the back corner area of the site
northeast corner of the area um but it wasn't we couldn't find a pipe or a discharge or anything of that nature to it so we don't know how it functioned it we don't know the the what it served but with the regulations that you have to imply we actually reduce that runoff
from the site today what you see today compared to for our proposed is reduced compared to existing so whatever is there you're going to remove and start over yeah and we actually are imposing functional systems we couldn't figure out any type of functionality on anything that's there today so then
right now all there are are leaders coming off the building right in fact most of it and the garage i'm only talking about a small kind of where the the property crests over and goes down that little sumped area doesn't see a lot of the rain water doesn't see the rain water from the runoff from the
parking lot today as an example so even if it is a measure it doesn't serve any kind of water quality measure today there's no So we're not counting it and you're not counting on it correct no we don't yeah we don't utilize any of those features thank you Mr ste yes Joe please one more followup um and
I guess this is more of the attorney um when I brought up earlier the issue of classrooms and you had said there is no such thing but on she No I said there's religious education oh okay there's not a separate school or nursery school or
anything like that thank you Joe all right now we will take questions from the public uh we strongly encourage questions we strongly discourage statements preceding those questions and we strongly discourage
repeated questions if one of your neighbors uh beat you to the punch please understand that we're trying to get through as much testimony as possible tonight but please anyone who has questions questions only for this witness please come up state your name spell your last name and give us your
address thank you so much hi Kim Leonard l E O N A R D 81 Road um I just had a few questions with your site plan um can you explain how you came up with the lock coverage the other
coverage areas what goes into that number when I added up it was different yeah so there's there's actually an analysis for the lot coverage provided in the drawing set and the drawing set shows the different areas of the site yep and so I'm not sure what your basis
was well no I did the same thing i went in and the building is 11,895 parking is 17,720 the walkway is 1005 the concrete payout is 64 the concrete area is 178 and the
walkway sidewalk is 7,541 that comes out to 26,58 and you have 23,547 i can't qualify your numbers i understand you did that yourself that checked out yeah I can and yeah sure that's accurate that's fine yeah um and
can you also go over how you got to the floor area ratio 18,024 that's based on the architectural components of the project and basically that square footage compared to the property area proper as long as you're using also the 1.74 acres and not what
was in inadvertently referred to as 1.6 acres i understand that but I see that the building coverage is 11,849 square ft the square footage of the building is 11 thou no 19,264 correct for the two floors square feet
and this is 18,024 so I'm just wondering what the difference in the I'm not just ask the architect for the floor area i'm not that familiar it's very specific under the ordinance and there are portions of the building that you would think are floor area which are excluded like
basement is all included basement storage areas so okay yeah the Yeah that can be that can be reviewed okay um I have just a few more questions so on your zoning table I also noted when I
was going through um there's a curve cut is that correct a this curve cut here mhm 40t is that I can give you I can give you a dimension on that second oops hold on this if done proper now if I mark this up it'll end up becoming an exhibit relative to
what's already out there now so uh we can talk about it from there so you just have to give me a moment just to uh do the measurement on here while we're talking can we just check to make sure that uh hand mic is still turned on hello can
you turn the switch hello that's better there we go thank you so approximately 44 ft so it's 44 ft and what is um the maximum allowed i don't know if we identified that on
our I believe it's 15 i I I will have to research it and tell you we can research that also um I guess my question is why do we need a 44 foot curb cut that takes away parking spaces correct so right now let me go through here we utilize a 24
foot wide uh walkway I mean driveway excuse me today two-way and then the curb returns on that are basically it's a standard driveway for two-way movement so the curb returns here are just allowing for typical maneuvering into the site so it's not excessive relative to the driveway that is typical of a
particular site like this okay so Okay um and then I just wanted to mention that um the minimum frontage on your zoning table you have 50 feet which is correct in a residential area but with a conditional use of a house of worship it
should be 200 ft and I know that doesn't change the whether it needs a variance or not but just so that we could see the difference i can we can check that right um uh will you be the one that puts in the application to the Somerset Union
Conservation District that's correct you are now did you do that we haven't applied that yet because typically we want to hear the board's comments anything that happens through the planning board process so that we provide them with the plan that they're actually going to review so as an example those parking spaces I referred
to earlier had I already submitted it would already be not already be have to be revised so It's it's a condition typically we get those will that be reviewed by the board before the final decision it's typically by the district yeah by the district logistics jurisdiction on that
particular element what what district i'm sorry the conservation district has jurisdiction over those measures okay and what about it's a Union County road correct and you need to also apply to Union County right that's correct and you're doing you're waiting the same
reason yeah just want to know the right plan that we're going in with and with the concerns with the safety the traffic the pipes breaking and the storm water um with the with county pipes are
we going to is the board going to be able to review the Union County before they make the final decision no it's a separate application to the county yeah we're not impacting wouldn't you think that you would want to know that though i'm just asking like wouldn't you want to know what the since
it's a Union County road what Union County's thoughts are it's not required and we can't force them to go through that process it's outside this board's jurisdiction and you you I'm sorry one one
clarification one clarification so if the board zoning board decides you know it's a really good idea that we see that before we make our final decision is that a decision the board can make i'm sorry can the board say Can the zoning
board say we are going to wait to hear from the Union County no they own application process their own approvals and we can't force outside jurisdictions as a condition of compliance okay i would just think the
city of Summit would want to have more can't do it more uh say over what happens okay um couple other questions you had mentioned that with the new grading the building will be sitting six or 18 feet above the
sidewalk level so three Yeah so right now you've got 359 is the existing excuse me the proposed building compared to 351 out on the street and 340 right and 341 at the other end okay so just to
get an idea of the bulk of the building when I'm standing on the sidewalk in front of that property the building height from what you're saying depending upon where I'm standing will be anywhere from 48 to 560
ft high well to clarify clarify well before I answer that statement that question excuse me the building is roughly at the same elevation what you see out there today for the for the Red Cross building in terms of the existing building out there today is 359 and
we're proposing our building at 359 okay so if you want a perspective right it'll be the same elevation but it will still be about so it'll be still be about 50 60 feet tall how build how tall is the Red Cross building the I don't know the existing height of the Red Cross building off the top of my head but if
I'm looking at the zoning table we publish that our height of the building will be 37.9 and when the architect has an opportunity to testify he'll explain where that is it's not the entire building sitting at 37.9 it's just think
of it like I'm not going to use the right term here but like a steeple the small extension above that 2.9 ft is basically that portion that small extension of the building as a architectural treatment okay i guess I'll ask the architect why he couldn't just bring that down to stay within the
variance but that that's probably that's an architectural question um okay so from your expert opinion as an engineer is there any reason like technically like water sheds anything why more
parking could not be put on this property if the building was smaller i I the answer is goes back to the functionality of the building i'm not the one to address the functionality i'm I'm not asking about the functionality i'm missing like technically that is
tied tied directly to your statement your your your question was whether or not more parking could be added to the site for the purpose if the building was smaller right and the answer would be yes but you would not have the building to be effective what you're asking for that all I asked is if it's technically possible that's But it doesn't address
the the application um but that's that's a separate issue okay so just I want to be clear a couple just so we're clear you're asking you're No you're asking questions but I want to make clear that you don't take a question and turn it towards a point of where it's not
applicable i just want to be careful about that right in other words the purpose of the of the application that's before you before the the board right now and the public excuse me is for this use based on this particular configuration so I don't want to confuse it i I see what you're saying okay um
and I appreciate that and how large is the sanctuary uh the architect would have to say that i don't know off the top of my head i know the I know the parking relative to the seat count required do you know the percentage of the sanctuary to the rest of the building it's an internal let's try and keep them to sight related questions for
the civil engineer attorney yeah you you'll have an opportunity certainly to ask questions of the architect after I guess the the the the big concern is that are you aware of um are you aware that we have a problem
in on Springfield Avenue with Union County pipes breaking and flooding and are I my my question I guess I'm notware I'm not aware of that okay i my question to you is are the is the storm water water draining into the same pipes that
keep breaking but at a reduced rate we're obligated no no just understand we're obligated reduced rate of Yeah we're we're obligated compared to existing conditions today in our post-development condition that we reduce the rate of runoff for the two the 10 and the 100year storm and that's
complies with the ordinance you know we reduce the two-year by 50% of its flow rate we reduce the 10-year by 75 and the 100redyear by 80 to 80% and that's from the retention based from the retention basins and the infiltration and everything else and when do the retention basins overflow you need 100
based on 100 years okay yeah the current one standard because I know a lot of other people have questions too so on the east side of the building you have you're taking trees
out and you're putting in a parking lot and then you have a public walkway that goes back into Wilson Park and then you have other trees that are city property once you take those trees
down how close are you how close is the parking lot to Oakley Avenue uh I'd have to go out and do a measurement for you i don't know off the I can't do it from what I have information here i think that's all I have thank you thank you jeff Sullivan 12 Pac Avenue uh so a
couple questions about a couple different things the um the pathways on the west side of the building into uh the park so it looks like just off the property line there
are gray path lines like as if it's continuing on so are those meant to connect with existing path are those existing pathways connecting with existing pathways yes so those are existing yeah to connect to this existing pathway here that's on adjacent
to the Okay so this is not any new pathway you're just right connecting connecting to the existing on the public land correct right okay uh regarding the solar array and knowing that that is not
allowed uh per the ordinance was there any consideration to try to put panels on the roof i'd have to refer to the architect i don't know what evaluations they did that way i know we have the green roof component so I'm not sure where that lies in the in the that would have to be an architectural question
okay and last question about the um on the utility the transformation uh box transformer the pad do you where is the is there something like that on the existing property the
existing service is actually um I believe it's go back to the This is the existing uh generator and transformer box today they have they have a generator in the back of the building
so is this common to put a a transformer pad in the front of the building like that it's actually controlled by the power company they have final say where it goes and generally what we do is we try to look for a location that's going to be that connection for the service off the street and then a reasonable
distance to the building from a connection point of view and and so how how tall is is it the wall or the box itself yes the whole Yeah so we we have a retaining wall there that has a height of Mr cotay can you speak into the My
apology i'm sorry we have a retaining wall there that has a height of 2 feet in the back uh and on one corner and 4 foot on the other corner and then uh zero at at the front so basically if you're looking at the wall from
Springfield the left side would be two foot high and the right side would be up to four feet high and then that would level the pad for and presenting to the to the roadway it's approximately three and a half feet three or four feet above the roadway elevation the adjacent
sidewalk along Springfield and sorry how wide is that roughly so the width of the pad itself is typically um I want to say I got probably 8 by8 is the rough pad size but I'd have to confirm with the utility provider there specific pad but
it won't be bigger than what's shown in terms of the retaining wall area that captures it and then the uh transformer itself it sits on underneath the walls no the the comes up above the wall yeah it comes up above the wall that's why I was saying it's around three or four feet above the grade of the the sidewalk
that you're out along Springfield the wall is three or four the pad the pad elevation for the transformer the pad itself is is approximately 3 or 4 feet above okay and then the transformer the transformer sits on top of that yes and do you know how tall that is off of that um I've seen transformers roughly 5 feet
in height i don't know if we have that the the power company will provide it and whatever product they provide is what we use but I can't can't testify to the exact height and then are there wires that go off of that or they go underground they go underground underground okay great thank you you're
welcome uh David Warren W A Ren 76 Beakman Road um I had a question about the the um roundabout the parking the turnaround what's the approximate distance let's
just say from the actual circle to what I assume is the there's a basketball court there now a Wilson playground what type of So we're we're 15 ft off the property line and then it might be another uh I can measure
approximately 10 ft to the asphalt driveway that's there but I don't know the court itself how far away that is are there any safety barriers whatsoever between the the circle and just the the walkway and cur just curbing proper just
regular concrete i think you mentioned there'll be some trees there'll be trees yeah trees planted around if you want to be consider that a safety feature i don't that that was kind of my question if there was any consideration to would there could there be any consideration for any enhanced safety measure between
because I could imagine for such a low speed maneuver we wouldn't typically do it yeah park right parking lots you know safety measure like was requested before about a guide rail off the back of a wall would be typical but not for a simple turnaround like that yeah just wondering in consideration of it being
the elementary school if there would be anything just in the off chance that someone all it takes is one person to lose control uh yeah i from a feature point of view the typically between the two and the curb but that would be the measures okay uh and then on the solar
canopy what can you describe like the reflective nature of those panels during the day just thinking about how it may or may not reflect into neighbors or into any you know homes so positionwise these these canopies are at the back of
the site proper and then on the east side of the site so just to give you a rough idea um the canopy structure will be sitting you know roughly at elevation um let's just say 12 ft to 14 ft above
that so 369 as an example um the building itself will block any of these in the back and the other ones will be tilted to the west so you won't see the so you'll see combination of there'll be
panels from this orientation from the street and there'll be panels like that orientation from the street and and those angles are based on the inclination of the sun where they get their yield whether or not you'll see any glare from your road i don't anticipate you see glare from
Springfield Avenue the the building will block the majority of the panels that actually face Springfield Avenue and that's just this line of sight if you're looking here this building better better drawing here this one
yeah sorry so this So basically most of these here those will be covered by the building these will be covered by the building and then these are starting to face towards the park okay so you don't feel that there's going to be any major reflecting into point of view thank you
for my opinion thank you hi Nicole Deloro uh D E L A U R O1 Oakley um I have some more questions about the solar canopies sure if you know that they are expressly prohibited in a residential zone why do you think
they would be good to have included considering to be justified with the character of the neighborhood especially since they're nowhere else I've seen in Summit well predominantly if you think of the sustainability component of the churches part of their overall culture
that would be an element of that you know from the point of view it's coincident and associated with that type of program where people are trying to do something to try and offset whether it be carbon or whether it be just power and generation in in general so it's it's I'd say it falls in line with the
program of the of the the church's culture i mean I do think that well I would say trees are are definitely better for question yes um so how because you cannot plant the one for every 10 spot shade trees
because you have all the parking you're not actually shading any of that heat that's being generated on the eastern side of the property so the solar panels do u do help in shading the
asphalt proper is it superior to trees but but in addition what's not I mean I don't it's not part of my testimony because I'm not the landscape architect but you'll hear from landscape architect the amount of trees that we're planting around are it's it's not a minor planting it's actually substantial so I
think when you see that that maybe you have a better perspective on the tree replacement type of approach you're talking about yeah i mean most of the trees at least I've seen that on the planter on the western side but I can save that question for later um for the lighting how tall are the polemounted
fixtures and where exactly are they located so the pole mounted fixtures have a a mounted height of 15 ft uh which is compliant with the ordinance and then they're positioned on the south side of the drive aisle and on the west
side of the drive aisle as you come in and one on the east side of the drive before you get to the solar canopy arrays the solar canopy arrays provide the lighting for the parking on the call it north and east side do you know how many lights there are on underneath all those solar canopies yeah the solar
canopy array is an E8 type fixture and E8 fixture is 34 so you have 34 of those and how many of the tall ones the tall ones are 10 total seven of one type and three of another but both 15t mounting
huts and are the tall ones at the 3500 Kelvin or are they will all be at that basically even the solar canopy lights and yes everything will be limited to 3500 really bright okay yeah well that was requested to be limited to that so okay um okay I think that Oh and then the
tall versus low how many low lights are there so the lowlying fixtures based on both baller types there's various versions of them there's nine baller types that are the kind of the the stick the the post mount type and then under
the benches uh there's a series um the E6es I referred to earlier in the testimony which were the ones under the benches there's 41 of those but again understand they are below you know they're they're soft light on the ground not not any type of light so they don't
project up they don't project up correct yeah and that's what the statement earlier just is that all the lighting is dark sky compliant specific to that address that comment do the solar canopy lights go off at night they would go Yeah they'd go out just like regular lighting does to comply with the
ordinance and is that through a switch through somebody actually manually doing it they have they could have a combination of timers or switches depending on how they want to operate it okay and then you mentioned about rain can you just say again how rain and snow guttered yeah they're guttered off of the canopies and then collected into the
drainage system that's shown on my drawings okay so even if snow were to be on there if we had a major storm that would kind of drip the gutter into the gutter system same way your house would okay same think of it like your house same idea we had a lot of snow this year my house had lots of snow yeah yeah um
and then what is the highest point on the back end of the solar canopy for versus the furthest end I guess down ranges from 12 to 14 ft okay and would that be okay with the fire truck if the fire truck was coming in that's why we show it outside of the the limits of the
canopy just as a as a added measure it could a firet truck could go underneath that depending on what type of rig it is but I don't I don't want to I don't I don't propose it that way and what about the monument sign how is that lit in the entrance the monument sign is lit through combination we have two uh let's
see i have to actually check i thought it was back lit i thought it said uplighting which I know is prohibited but I I thought that that's what I saw in Yeah I'm not showing it right now there redesign that yeah we have a redesign that design so yeah we have a
redesign of that that'll be part of the architectural testimony when he comes back okay great thank you very much thank you Mr chair just one question um I believe last testimony we talked about limiting lighting until after the facility uh was shut down for the day uh
versus what was just talked about right there which is an hour from the last testimony was an hour after the facility shuts down i was just want to make sure everybody's aware of that hi Christina Kogan 686 Springfield Avenue um could you just confirm whether
or not there is an event space in the building currently i I'm not the architect but we we've made testimony that there's no event space there's not but the architect will talk about that okay are you aware on the website under Beacon's website under about us there's a space rental for both the Red Frost
space and the Waldrin space are you aware of that it's also listed on Wedding Wire i think it's irrelevant well it's relevant to me that's why I asked um it's not it's not it has nothing to do with this project good to you well what's the maximum occupancy of
the sanctuary space and the building as a whole ask the architect all right well I guess my questions won't be answered tonight sorry ingred Colboom that's C A R L E O M it might be better to hold it c A R L B O M
21 Oakley um so we've talked a lot about this but I still want to understand this about you know how you calculate the number required they think they want you to speak into the mic it should be on it's on maybe hold it a little closer you got to hold it okay thank you is that better
perfect all right um so I haven't quite understood how you use how you calculate the parking still so in you have a report dated November 21 2024 and there is essentially an
algebraic equation if I can rewrite it as could I could I interrupt a second but that will be covered by the part by the traffic engineers testimony okay but for the purpose of my testimony we calculated parking based upon the number of seats so it's one parking space for every three seats and to the planner's
testimony earlier or planners comments earlier you know there's a question of the can we rate that against other elements of the site but that'll be the the parking study parking study would be the parking uh expert okay should I should I not ask any more things about
your parking unless it's about the site configuration uh but not not the not the uh the traffic related questions from a report that I didn't prepare that's not under that I didn't prepare that report our traffic engineer prepared that that's your name on it I think is it not
your name no that's uh it's actually Mr burgess is Oh I'm sorry i got the wrong All right i will I will come back thank you when the traffic engineer is Yes i don't want to drop this thank you drop the mic
hi Naj McCary c A R E Y uh 29 Oakley Avenue and I'm uh wanting to know can you put up the do you have the ability to put the entire structure from the outside besides the the the site plan like what it actually looks like oh there uh there will be full
architectural testimony can you just speak in the mic thank you oh he Oh I wanted to know if the whole you know the outside structure so when you can see it from the road if that's you know if we could put it up that'll that'll be provided with the architect's testimony he just unfortunately couldn't be here because of travel issues but I'm doing
the site civil related testimony so if it's a question regarding site civil which is the site layout components of the site design like storm water or grading or utilities well no because my I was about you know the structure filling you know fitting in with the in with the with the neighborhood will be
able to speak to that full color renderings and differences okay because I think it's really important that everybody see that the visual thank you hi uh Matt Degan six Beakman Terrace um my question is about the drainage mhm so
all the runoff water is going into some sort of retention tank correct different different systems throughout it's a combination of retention tanks porous pavement underground infiltration system so it's a gall it's different galleries where on the site plan are those located
sure so the drawing we put up that was referred to as the grading plan drainage plan so as an example along the frontage is a series of underground galleries this is underground detention and then that'll discharge out through an outfall control structure that goes out to the
inlets along the street in terms of the the discharge this is an underground infiltration system which takes uh components such as the rooftop drainage and then that gets again everything I referred to goes through outlet control structures that percolate through the
ground part of it percolates in the ground part of it slows it down well it's no it's it's different we we have soil tests to show that we can actually percolate you know soil types are have to be conducive for that purpose but those those locations there's there isn't going to be anything in the back right now what's under what's what's
around for example the porest pavement has under drained components of it and those go out to the system those are all part of the they're part of the storm water water quality measures so there'll be the discharge out the back here for example combines both discharge from
some of the other features I talked about plus the under drains of the porest pavement as an example and that and that moves through there and through there yeah through that through that discharge point yes that's correct okay thank you thank you please Marissa Tolman uh 7 Beman Terrace
Tan um I just had a couple questions on into the microphone please thank you i had a couple questions on the EV parking sure so there's four spots and those are not included in the 46 parking count they're included but the state allows you to take a credit of an additional
parking count not a real parking count but a a parking space towards your obligation of parking for every one you can get basically an added space so there is a provision that I could have counted it as 50 parking spaces on site because each EV grants you an added
bonus but I didn't do that i just kept it as what are the real parking spaces that are out there so my number doesn't reflect that bonus in any way okay and so there's canopies with lighting over those under Yeah yeah yeah yeah over the spots i'm sorry yes um can you see that
from the street they'll be part of the if you were to look from the street of site being lit you'll see that the site's lit like any property that's lit up but ultimately it they go out at the time when per the board's provisions when after the activities are over okay
so do they have like a vendor like Charge Point or EVgo or somebody that I don't think they've selected anything along those lines yet those are usually listed on like a map so people can come off the highway and use them 247 i don't want to speak out of term but I don't believe they're public facing spaces
they're not the state doesn't the state requires you to build EV spaces but they can be off your own house panel and for your use only they're not meant to be public spaces okay so they're not they're not on the they're not on apps things along those lines they won't yeah but I but the product that they're
buying I have I don't know specifically which brand but it wouldn't be a like a web web based like you can use it from you as a resident come up park it in the spot and use it as if it was yours to use yeah that's not the intent no but is
it listed on like should not be no okay yeah no thanks thank you kim Leonard 81 Beakman Road uh just a couple questions where is the playground off of this map i'd have to get an aerial map to to do to show that i don't
have it that map here to show it the playground you're talking about the park playground not the I'm talking about the playground for the church oh no the church has amenities i don't know if I would refer to it it's there's play space i I'll let the uh landscape architect she actually can present that
whole area and what that consists of again I those are landscape amenities as opposed to I just know a playground was very important to the church for many years okay so um also did you do the safe plan application uh sorry your number your
name's not on you but I wasn't sure i worked with the attorney for this okay so couple of things uh right here it says the curb cut 15 foot max required proposed is 40 so would that be an additional variance
yes we covered that i covered that in the introduction last time okay i didn't see it on the the list uh and then also the buffer area for parking required from the site application required is 20
ft and proposed is 15 ft and I did not see that variance either that's on there yeah that's that's represented in the table yeah did I miss it yeah it's the parking setback 20 versus 15 oh I see so it's just not under parking okay all
right thank you thank you thank you thomas Marzetta 21 Oakley Avenue uh my question is would a underground parking garage with sufficient capacity for all parking needs have been feasible and if
so was it considered i I don't I can't adjust the feasibility because the cost of underground parking is typically a expensive proposition so I don't know from an economics point of view whether it was feasible or not typically it's not based on you know overall costs of a
project when you start adding a space in that cost anywhere between 15 to $20,000 a space to be able to build that out in addition to what your other site constraints would other site costs would be 15,000 times a 100 is what can you do
the arithmetic for me sir uh 1.5 million and could you tell us what the total cost of this project is i don't know what the total cost is overall it's that's that's a combination of uh everything from the building to the site work and everything else could you build such a thing as an a civil engineering
student didn't you study bridge building structural engineering and things of that nature sir I'm not sure that's relevant yeah I would say Mr cody did your firm uh perform any geotech on the site yeah we did a geotech investigation
to support the storm water design okay can you speak to the or summarize quickly the the summary is there bedrock is there what's the makeup under underground yeah there's there's underground soils consist of a combination of um both what we refer to
as um uh I want to say lom sandy lom there's other materials in there i can actually what I could do is I don't have the report here specifically but I do have in the stormwater report the references for it so if you like for a second um I just open up the stormwater
report and I'll call up the section that has the uh test pits in it thank you these are the test logs that are in the actual um report proper um the top uh in this particular case the top foot was the dark brown silt with some um fine to
coarse sands trace roots below that is the light brown silty uh trace fine to coarse gravel uh trace clay and trace roots below that were reddish uh silty for find across to to coarse sand and again back to trace uh find a coarse
gravel trace clay and trace roots uh you make your way down it's a similar um component there are some trace cobbles at the 5 foot and below for the for as an example of one test pit on the project site uh we had a total of uh
let's see one two down to the bottom here we have eight test pits on the site to document the soils throughout great thank you thank you please Christina Kogan 686 Springfield Avenue and I hope you can answer this question
it is in regards to the safety of the community and Wilson Park um God forbid there was an emergency at the church where there requires multiple fire trucks and ambulances could you explain how they would be able to maneuver
within that parking space in area so their entry point into the site and their access to this drive aisle that is around the site pro within the site proper is their primary staging area typically when I work with fire departments throughout the state a lot of the fire departments talk to me about
they don't want their vehicles staged up adjacent to the building typically you'll stay the fall distance of the building away so the drive aisle is at a position a suitable distance away from the building and the fire chief had a chance to review this and provided his comments on it for that for that purpose
so where would they stay on they they would stage on the main roadway coming in so maybe Springfield Avenue well no our access drive coming in would be the more likely they could stage along Springfield if that were to be the need for multiple fire trucks but they have the opportunity to access the building
uh through the our main drive okay easy for them to get in and out yeah the out is based on the K turn that we provided and the otherwise it' be the condition that the board member u had provided before that if they were to be all parked they'd have to back out okay thank you for answering that thank you
thank you hi Rachel Brennan 7 Fairview Avenue b ren i had a similar question i was going to sit down but it's slightly different because I I thought you said they couldn't so my question also was going to be like what happens if there's a
police or a fire truck that pulls in and a police truck pulls in behind how would that fire truck get out because I'm confused on these logistics but it sounded like you're you just answered there would be a kpoint turn but I thought there couldn't be a kpoint turn there would be a kpoint turn if the
parking spaces are available for them to make the turn i think we're assuming or at least I'm going to assume it's full this is on a on a day where it's full yeah it could be any any any one of the conditions right so the other example was I don't know what that means what what is any one of the conditions a condition could be that they're full the
condition could be that they're empty it could be whenever whenever a fire occurs is not I I don't want to speculate I want to consider a consider consider a full parking lot as a scenario okay right that was one of the scenarios so what I referred to earlier was that they would need to back out or potentially do
some kind of So can I ask a backout question on the backout if there is a whether it's another firetruck or a police car behind the fire truck that's in there how how does the backout occur so they So what you're asking me is how would I stage a fire and that's no just to be
clear yeah i I don't want to speak out of turn relative to the fire department's ability to stage a fire i can tell you from my experience how different fire departments have operated over time in particular where the vehicles need to be positioned away from a given building that's my expertise in terms of working with various fire
departments but I can't tell you that a fire department will bring one vehicle in behind the other or backup or or whatever the concern might be so I don't want to understood but this allows for multiple vehicles multiples fire trucks
can Yes can pull in and exit and they'd have to exit the same way they came in by backing back out and you've confirmed that that's a safe way for evacuation the confirmation is not from me it's from your fire department having reviewed the plans and agreeing that it's acceptable to proceed with this
design that's that's the that's their response to the technical review which I don't I don't speak to and do they give because I have no idea um do they say whether it's like an optimal design for or they just say we can all comments are
online okay yes the report the So the fire chief's report is is part of the online document okay awesome that's what I'm basing my testimony on awesome thank you appreciate it thank you hello gorkasarasa 37 Oakley Avenue Samir
s A R A S A so my question is is the underground garage technically feasible i I would say that it's not something that I would consider feasible on this project just technically from like can you build it i'm not I'm talking about the as an engineer i can do a lot of
things but what's practical in a job I I'm not talking about it's practical i'm not economical is is it technical feasible yeah technically you could design something but I can't tell you would work for the church's purpose you're asking me something is it feasible for the intended use from a
technical point of view technical point of view I can build anything right provided or whatever so can you build an underground garage if I I can't tell you it would be the right thing to do for this project that's if you're asking if it's feasible and I believe that's the right thing to do i can't tell you that i'm not asking if it's the right thing
to do skin is is it technically feasible or not uh it again is this is this question difficult for because you ask so when I think of subsurface conditions and I think of digging down into that material I just talked about the likelihood is I'd compromise some of the
infiltration areas that I need to take advantage of in the current above ground scenario this site is graded diffic it's a difficult site to design for the storm water having been the designer for the storm water so if you tell me I need to eradicate some of those locations you know let's say under the building things
like that with underground parking which will likely have to go out from under the building proper then I'd say I wouldn't do that because I'd be compromising places where I could infiltrate today which is a state priority on where do you design your storm water management it's to resources that are available if I wipe it out with
something like an underground parking deck then I'm I am wiping out other feasibility aspects of the project so your your question is not black and white yes or no it's a there's a lot of components in the design elements that I have to consider as to whether it's truly feasible and then obviously that
has to tie back to what the intended use is so you have to consider all those things okay and regarding the configuration so you said that the t the roundabout could could be could be made bigger if it were to the north and to
the to the east it would Yeah it would do two things it would increase the impervious that we talked about before like we're talking about those parking spaces an example it would also eliminate some of the primary trees that we're providing up along that northwest corner as part of our buffer what if you move it to the right and to the bottom
you would eliminate parking if you moved it to the right if you because right anywhere where it is right now allows for people to drive through if they don't find a parking space to be able to decide to drop someone off at that lower uh southern portion of the of the
roundabout and then to go back out so that's the it's it's basically for a is a tradeoff like you lose parking spaces you would lose you would you would lose parking spaces if I move the circle inbound of the current parking where it is now in other words if I add parking to the end I lose parking where I move
it over to so same so if I just take that circle and shift it around I'm not going to gain parking spaces because I have to provide that somewhere for people to turn around and that is actually the most productive location for it to be for people to if they didn't get a parking space to turn back
around and go back out okay and then regarding the width between the parking spots is it the same when it's in a curve yeah 24 ft is our minimum that's a require yeah it's a requirement right per the ordinance thank you thank you thank
you please hi uh Dory Gagnon 27 Bedford Road i had a lot of trouble hearing you on that side of the room i could barely hear anything i couldn't see the things um so I'm going to ask questions maybe you answered them but um I just want some
clarification on a couple of things uh hopefully everybody can hear me um the parking spots uh to clarify you said there were parking spots for people who are residing at the church or for um Reverend Tanner or I've just was
there no it's a general use of the overall facility just 42 or for EV vehicles there's extra spots no what so so what you were hearing was a discussion about the state allows an applicant like this to take a credit for an EV space if I build one EV space I
get two spaces to the count that this board sees in my parking count even though there's no physical space okay so we didn't take that credit we just went with So there's just 42 is that correct it's the 42 or the 46 if the board sees that they want to add the tandem the extra ones okay just wanted a clarification on that cuz I sure I don't
know if mic's not working or what's going on but I just had trouble hearing you okay um Okay so storm water management i saw the pictures and I kind of understood but where is that water going once that's in the basin on in Springfield Avenue because across the street there's a broken pipe and people
are losing their property and that's broken so where does that water go once so there's a combination of discharge points out today that the site goes out to we connect on the southwest end to the pipe that's on the north side of Springfield Avenue from ours but if you
hadn't heard from my testimony our design requires us to reduce the rate of runoff compared to existing today so we're not going to exacerbate a problem that's downstream that we we're not responsible for the county's infrastructure but when we tie into that infrastructure we're required to reduce
the rate of flow into that system and so since I know nothing about this I'm just going to be an improvement over what's out there today so what is the existing rate of flow that's currently offset and nothing's happening at the property right now but if somebody was living there what is that rate of flow so today
when you look at the the site the way it breaks down the there's different portions of the wershed and I'm going to open up a page here in my stormwater report that'll give you an idea there's a lot of content here so you just have to bear with me a moment here
so our storm water report refers to different storm events two-year 10y year 100redyear it talks about the existing that's peak flow out there today it talks about what the allowable is and then it refers to what our proposed is and our proposed has to be that or less
and this is a allowable is a reduction from today so if you look for example in the two-year it's about half of what goes out there today two-year storm is the storm that the most frequent storm you see during the course of a year it does a lot of the the it's what they
refer to as a it's a a storm that'll happen anywhere 50 times a year as an example so again let me ask you this question does that go to the Salt Brook though do you know if that pipeline goes yeah so the the pipeline that goes downstream I don't know where the terminus point is i think that's
something important to find out but but but just so you understand it not to say it doesn't make a difference but understand that where we're tying into is the county infrastructure right the county infrastructure like this board this is important for the city to understand yeah like this board's uh same so we're actually treating the
water that currently today on the parking lot is untreated in the existing conditions so So understand the post-development condition oh I know you're doing I'm not saying you're not doing but there's a lot of development on that street so I think the output what's happening is important right yeah to be really clear we're not in we're
actually improving that situation compared to what it is today so if you ask about what is downstream what about this what about that I'm not I'm actually improving what that'll see from this site so it's not a it's in other words we're not we're not we're not making it worse we're making it better in that respect okay so um another
question um so big on safety um and I had a big project that was put across the street from me and so the fire trucks still a little concerned about EMS we're talking about a lot of fire trucks but we're not really talking about EMS and their safety so let's say EMS was the first one on site then the
fire trucks come and then the police come so EMS is not able to get out of there once the fire trucks are behind them so one thing that the project did across the street from me was put an exit now obviously I don't think that's possible with this site to put an exit
onto Springfield but I don't see how EMS if there was an emergency where there's patients that are injured how are they going to be able to get them out you're you're projecting a scenario that may happen could happen it may not so I'm just like that's like my
number one concern is getting patients out yes there's a fire put the fire out whatever but there's patients that are injured and there's could be 300 up to 300 people I think with Mr nelson's testimony that last time saying that people were standing so so let me refer I'm just concerned about Let me refer to
that comment or the question excuse me right the question is that if ambulances were pull in here you've got a two-lane roadway so you as an EMT person would park on one side or the other side if you take the whole lane up I can't tell you that operationally that's going to be the smartest thing to do but you have
the ability to bypass somebody with an EMT uh vehicle you could drive back into that is there a way to zoom in a little bit so you can you could you could drive as an EMT unit you could drive through this circle and come back out this circle will support an EMT ambulance i'm
just talking about fire trucks behind me like but if but if a fire truck blocks the whole thing then operationally yeah they're going to block it but if they don't you have two lanes you have an inbound and outbound lane that you can use and that's my concern is that you know that the project that we pushed for across the street there's an emergency
exit and it's roped off i can't speak to that project i I know that i'm just saying that was something that we pushed for and the board agreed that there had to be an emergency exit for people to exit out of so that's something that I would suggest the board to look at like this is something that I'm I'm
suggesting to say that EMS cannot exit and patients cannot get out of this safely so that's something that I'm suggesting uh well while you before your next question I just need to put a before I lose my I think under Yeah yeah
how do you open it nicole your turn boy John just when you think engineers know what they're doing just remember an engineer built that it's engineer proof
yay so Mr cody uh in your turning analysis for your site layout could you just remind the audience of what width firet truck you used and then the width of your roadway so maybe that'll put this in perspective so our fire truck is
based on the Summits firet truck we get the information from the fire department proper um the overall truck itself has both steering angles it's a 50 It's a 45 ft long truck as far as the way it's rated and we use their specific geometry
and we run this through a program called AutoTurn autoturn is a program that actually uses the true wheelbase the true steering angle to operate the vehicle and then we can use that to simulate and what you see on this plan are the maneuvers of the truck coming in
so this is a summit fire truck coming into the site like off of first off off of the main road into the entrance drive and also exiting the entrance drive and then that maneuver as it comes through operates and again to your point whether or not it they're in a single lane that an EMS can bypass or whether they take
the entire lane up I can't speak to their operations but it is a two-lane roadway which would allow EMS vehicles to go past the fire truck on whichever side they're not utilizing at the time and make their way through and if they for their own turnaround benefits the MS units can use this circle at the end to
circle back out and exit so dement if you could just guess what what is that a a nine or 10 foot wide uh Oh truck itself it's on there yeah use use that for the uh the What's the roadway width the
roadway width is 24 ft all right so the truck is 8.2 8 thank you all right um and then just one more question about this storm water what is the rate of flow so the rate of flow varies from each discharge point uh there's actually a combination of different points we
have uh throughout the site there's four different uh analytical points and the flows are we refer to them in engineering terms in terms of CFS so the example of the 100redyear uh from one pipe discharge is 3.4 CFS i know that's
not maybe relatable but that's the the what you need to understand is the original existing conditions compared to what the post development is and every one of them is lower by a measure does that have to do with size of the building or is that just that's just state regulations on whatever you design
it's it's about the parking and the building and everything okay thank you so much can I can I just clarify something can you go back to the dimensions of the fire truck so it says it's the width that's that's parking that's not operational width that's the correct the operational is
reflected in the in the Yeah the operational is connect correct is reflected in the path you see on this drawing that's driving i'm talking about when the when the outriggers are out and the ladder's up oh yeah when you stage when you stage a unit exactly again that goes back to that's why it has to be people ask me a lot but I you know I I I
can speak to what I have experience with but I don't personally stage fire responses that's why those those figures can be misleading because you're saying it's 8t wide but when it's when it's up and operating it's probably closer to 20 yeah with everything set up I'm sorry with everything set up I know I'm going
to regret this but when a fire truck's operating and it's had its ladder up and its outriggers are out it's a lot closer to 20 ft right so that could be the case the number you know you can the numbers are one thing but the actuality is totally different and a lot of this goes back to the timing and the way the different um services you know get fire
chief's the expert yeah I have to put it in their hands they're they're the final say in in any application that I have in terms of Thank you Rachel Brennan 7 Fairview Avenue tied up my question or teed up my question perfectly um and
thank you for noting that uh the report was online i took a quick look um so I just want to confirm the report it looks like from the fire department was issued in July 2024 i just want to confirm that there have been no changes to the drawings that we're looking at now since
that report was issued his his report is based upon the this is the February 9th 2024 drawings that we're presenting that that is part of that took a long time to get to this board hearing so that's why there's a time gap but it it's it is this is the report prior this is reports
based on this plan yes okay so so what they issued is based on that drawing is based on this drawing okay that's correct so cuz I just I think at one point we were talking about there had been changes to the circle those are covered in the report this the circle
changes were internal design iterations we went through not something that the that we presented to the town to come up with this solution so people asked if we had investigated other scenarios and we did and that's how we came up with this final solution you see here that the that the that the fire department reviewed okay this is the one they
reviewed okay thank you i have a I have a quick question about the fire truck is that the fire truck that Summit's using now that's what was provided to us by the fire department for the current firetruck to utilize for this particular service okay so we So we
have a new fire a fire um fire department now um firehouse now that can you might be able to help me Don that they can they can have larger fire trucks now correct theoretically so if we were to get a larger fire truck that
would fit in our larger firehouse the firehouse is part of the driving factor for size of apparatus really it's the bridges in town okay there's bridges li you know PGA Avenue has two bridges some of them we can go under with some apparatus some we can't springfield Avenue bridge we can go under with some
appar I say we I apologize to fire department um cannot go under that bridge with certain apparatus um the dimensions that they showed are the dimensions of the apparatus so um tactically when you're using I'm I
feel very nervous about talking about this but tactically when you're using a fire apparatus the width is a lot wider than when you're driving it you know your hoses is coming off you got But the fire chief's the expert and if he said he's good then he's good right yeah i have to base it on their review i agree thank you i'm just planning for the
future christina Kogan 686 Springfield Avenue um how many of the parking spots are reserved for handicap there's a total of four spaces three spaces excuse me that are on the site for the ADA okay sorry
there's four EV and three ADA so of the 46 seven are just regular spots i mean seven are not the regular spots they're EV combination yeah the ADA actually shares one of the is an EV space okay so there's an overlap there um and was
there a plan for where the like overflow of cars would go yeah Springfield Avenue the actual shoulder along Springfield Avenue is the overflow okay which was I think discussed earlier the parking talked about in the last We'll we'll have full Yeah we'll we have another Yeah we have another answer that'll be
another expert all right thank you all right thanks uh Jeff Sullivan 12 Pac Avenue the uh I noticed on the warm the water uh storm water yeah where the tying I think it was the tying
in image yeah there's different right different discharges this is one of them that was asked about tying into Springfield Avenue yes so if you could zoom in there next to the uh transformation pad where the it look is that a manhole where where it turns this is an inlet today existing up manhole
here yes yes so that's set at grade with the uh with the with the embankment slope that's a That's a greed so yes so one of the other images you showed was this side of the property is has a significant slope yeah what I was showing was just
basically that if you look at the elevations on Springfield Avenue we have to tie into those at the rightway right so our grades of the natural existing conditions out there today are in this rough elevation 434 that's here and then it makes its way up the embankment slope
so what's out there today is an embankment slope if you looked at the existing conditions so these are this is this is the existing slope that's out there today these these are contours representing one foot elevation changes so you can see this is upwards to uh say seven or eight or even 9 ft here just uh
existing not not proposed right and that you're not planning on any grading to change that slope yeah we we do we have the wall to make up a flat spot for where the transformer is proposed we have a um series of we have slope
embankment there similar to what you see out there today and then up top here where we have you know our our perimeter around the building we level back off again so the example is the building is at 359 which is if you were to see the existing Red Cross building today that's
the same elevation existing building to where we're putting the proposed building that would be a rough give you a gauge of the elevation i'm just asking questions that are focused on the the manhole cover and the grading and are there any other manhole covers
along that pipeline that are they're reflected here you know near near the steep slope and specifically I asked because my my neighbor who had work done has a manhole cover in their front yard mhm and it's and it's sloped and the manhole just
sticks right out of the hill right yeah so so so you know I'm asking that's the that's the thrust of the question is how does the manholes sit on the hill yeah so the grading has the man the manholes of basically the two foot you see if the diameter of the manhole that grade will
be across and there'll be a probably a change of about maybe 6 to 8 in across that manhole for the purpose of what you'll see revealed so you may see six or eight of a lip of the of the mantle on the 8 in downhill side six to eight inches of of a lip of a lip and and
that's the only one or there'll be multiple it's these it's these three here you see along the front that are in the grass area the the landscaped area excuse me along the front one two and three and each of those will be jutting out like that 6 to8 inches
like I don't refer to as jutting but yes it would it would be exposed by a small portion of it and how far away is that from the existing sidewalk or is that uh that's approximately Al I can measure it but it be about maybe anywhere from 8 to 10 ft depending on the location so So
that's the the property line is where the sidewalk begins no the sidewalk is offset from the property line this is the edge the edge of the sidewalk closest to the site and this is the edge closest to the street so you're talking about from here to here
that's right sorry go ahead so So visually on this plan this is the edge of the sidewalk existing today and this inbound of the property is where the manhole will be proposed did you consider uh putting in a retaining wall between the sidewalk and
the where the elevation begins in front of those manholes no similar to what's down the street and many of the houses that are being built yeah we went with the embankment slope to have more natural cover rather than a wall in the frontage okay so those manholes will all
be visible uh within that 6 to8 inch type of visibility okay thanks the height of a curb basically looks like one more hi Nicole Deloro one Oakley um I had a question about the eastern side where the storm drainage if
there is any all the way on the eastern side and is the sidewalk that's behind the um I guess parking spaces is that pvious paving as well now the sidewalk is just uh excuse me if I'm not speaking in the mic the sidewalk is uh concrete
sidewalk lining along the edge the pvious pavement goes up to the curb line proper and there's a discharge point that we were referring to earlier tonight in the testimony at this northeast corner of the site and that's this feature that's shown on the plan here and that doesn't get moved with the
additional tandem spots now just the outfall will stay where it is but instead of being um a small like what they refer to as a flared end section it'll just be integrated into the retaining wall if the board so chooses to want us to build that how does the water collect between that point and I
guess yeah there's a series this this is the underground the drainage system below the porest pavement collects that drainage in that area and delivers it to that pipe is the sidewalk pitched towards the side the sidewalk here pitches towards the pavement okay thank
you thank you Mr chairman can I ask two one couple questions real quick absolutely okay um just talking about that area you have that the rip wrap I guess it's called right on the right on the property line right why wouldn't you want to catch
that drainage into your drainage system because this is going to be untreated water no I I apologize that actually is treated water that's the the whole point of the porous pavement I was referring to earlier that is treatment for the water as well as anything else that occurs you know anything that comes off
the the paved areas is treated by that pavement through the through the porest pavement and and basically that the rip wrap is there is just for stabilization of the discharge like soil erosion that was referred to earlier that conservation district's review will review that they'll require me to
provide that rip wrap as a part of their their review so what's going to prevent that water from running onto the property next door which I know belongs to the city but that's where it goes today that's actually this if you look at the existing conditions this is the direction the water goes from the site is that correct though that is and it's correct and it's reduced in the same
capacity I was referring to earlier the rate of runoff at that location is actually going to be less than what it is now that's what it is now but even even though it's all grass and everything correct that's because we're slowing it down we're treating it it's that whole train of different stormwater measures is is what were used to slow it
down and treat it today it's untreated it goes off as direct discharge existing conditions and we're actually so woulding that I'm just gonna ask would I be able to do that having that so close to my property line to my neighbors if you may if you
when you do the design you technically have to find the points of discharge that go out there today and and you have to work those points of discharge and that's a point of discharge existing great thank you Mr thank you i do have a question may I go oh sure okay last one
hi I'm Norma Howard 42 Oakley Avenue H A U R this may be a code question or a question for you so whoever wants to answer so when I did a big project on my house which is just down the street I had to keep all of my water on my
property so I'm very curious about why are there different rules or are there different rules I guess is the question yeah just with respect to development like this the rules are
governed both by the city and by the state D city adopts NJD's requirements i can't speak to why your site didn't allow you to discharge but but I I can't speak to that i don't know same city but no but just understand I apologize just so you know I'm not I don't know the circumstance that you you built to if
you were overbuilt if you were what the story was i I don't I didn't need any variances yeah no no I'm saying I don't I don't know the specifics of your circumstance so don't get me wrong that I'm I'm trying not to compare can somebody just clarify that for me because that's important to me because I
a lot of extra effort and cost on myself to keep my water on my property and I did not I did not need a single variance i wasn't overbuilt i wasn't over lot coverage space coverage floor questions only place so yeah so what's the rules
the city the city has in the ordinance stormwater regulations that's the rules i understand that and that's the rules and and I'm compliant with those rules and I bring it up only because people question you know what do you base your design on so design's based on New
Jersey DP standards so make just so that I I'm clarifying yeah it is permitted for this property to have their water flow onto someone else's property yeah matching correct with the reductions i'll I'll chime in
the postdevelopment flow cannot exceed the pre-development flow that's the standard that we're guided by and that's what they're comp i have just one more question it's much much easier i have lost track of the number of variances how many are there i have to count them based upon what the board accepts it was
anywhere between I think 16 to It's been reduced down to I think 14 14 or so okay based on if the board accepts the Yeah revisions that we talked about earlier tonight right and those calculations that you need to check that were brought up in the questions correct okay thank
you Mr cody we'll ask for an updated or revised voting chart to reflect um whatever changes were discussed over the course of your testimony tonight okay and I don't know at what point in the process the board will give us direction on whether they want to
evaluate it based on the temporary uh the tandem parking because that would affect the variance list like uh the coverage would go up for example lot coverage by a little bit in my earlier testimony I spoke to that if these ideas are acceptable to the board then it would modify the variances and I would
just I can update it would you like me to update it based on the assumed that we'll do the tandem parking yes okay yes great thank you thank you um so why don't we take a five minute break roger can we get one more witness in tonight i think we could do landscape all right
great let's do landscape and then uh we'll start with questions let's assume another 40 plus minus minutes after our break and then um if there's still questions remaining we'll we'll continue with
those questions in the next hearing all right so leave your computer i'm going to leave it up and running yeah i'm just going to bring up uh Oh YouTube or I'll use your name we'll just let Now that I know I can use
this spill so relax where is he i held him up he's where all the old guys went that's not nice roger some of the girls did too why why did you think you were
included in that here he comes what well we'll resume when Mr nelson gets back to the base no worries Don i held you up i held turn i held you up all right we know that okay so we got this all right all right
we're all back i will swear you in if you could raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matter the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes please state your name spell your last name my name is Tavis Docker it is D O C K W I L
L E R thank you and can you briefly describe your background and experience for the board please sure i am a licensed landscape architect i am licensed in uh New Jersey of course Massachusetts Nebraska New York Pennsylvania and
Virginia i be began my career in 1988 i own Verdian Landscape Studio our company is in our 26th year i have testified before boards in New Jersey uh in Princeton i um am a primary author for the high
performance landscape guidelines for the city of New York's park system and I also was on the civic design review a mayoral appointee for the city of Philadelphia reviewing projects for eight years uh projects to see how they
affect the public realm any questions or would you like to accept your credentials we will welcome thank you thank you and your New Jersey license is in good standing I think yes it is thank you and you uh were principal in your firm who directly participate preparing
the landscape plans for this application that's correct so you're familiar with those plans yes I am and with the site plans and the building plans as well yes that's correct okay so I wonder if we could then just if you would simply walk the board through the through the landscape plans i certainly can and I
can I can zoom in as as needed um as described by my colleague we have the drop off area in the front of the building and I I will have an an exhibit for this uh which you should have already that describes the paving uh we
have the drop off at the front of the building and I think you can see my cursor there's a a walking labyrinth in the front of the building we have the walks that were described that move people around the building with a small gathering space at the
rear hold on let me see if I can forgive my There we go we have um a lawn at the rear of the building we have a small nature-based play area at the back of the building and the site is
completely planted which I can describe next oh actually I'll describe play next um the play which I think we had a question about is a small area behind the building there is actually a fence to prevent children from running into
the lot and this is a nature-based there's a small boulder climb there's a small net climb there's a water play element and there's some sand with a net hang all of those features are shown here at the bottom of
the exhibit there's the style of net hang there's a little rope climb there's a little rope trail walk a boulder scramble and then a little bit of water play for children this is meant uh for smaller children uh so all will be age
appropriate and it is really important to the uh mission of the client to make sure that children have a place to be in immersed in nature the next exhibit is the tree removal plan we did work with John Linson your arborist for this plan he
reviewed all of the trees with us we have 63 existing trees on site 29 of them are to be removed most of them are in not great condition and we are planting 91 trees on the site
uh John did talk to us about the three larger trees in the back and we did look very hard at saving them but due to the turnaround requirements and the parking requirements we were unable to do that because we'll disturb too much grade around them and we have to be very
sensitive about pardon the root zones of the trees to make sure that we live they live the planting plan is all native deer resistant plantings appropriate to your ecosystem here and they are meant to
showcase the ecosystem the plan is planted um very carefully in concert with the storm water the storm water plan because really to get great water quality you need to have your soils your vegetation
and your storm water working in concert so we worked very hard with John's firm in order to uh make sure that works this is the tree plan and you can see that we have a variety the little the little colored ones or the flowering trees the
little pink ones and then we have large trees and also um small understory trees we did look at shading because we want to make sure that we can actually shade paving but not shade the solar canopy
the sun wraps the site in this direction so we've been working back and forth with the architect to make sure you get good solar gain where you need it but you'll get cooler pavements uh where you also need it because that is very um important it's not just um
the management of the the rain uh to reduce quantity but it's also the cooling of water to help to make uh water that's not heated up so that it it performs better with the soils and vegetation uh let's see
oh let me hand out and I've gotten confused on the numbering of these so someone's going to have to help me this would be four I think a4 yes and this is an exhibit that just talks about the paving materials so you can
see the the materials being proposed thank you very well thank you thank you thank you sorry thank you i'm actually not seeing this exhibit i apologize
give me a minute it should be the site materials oops one above it thanks for bearing with me everyone um the the unit pavers in the variegated colors are the hatching here at the drop
off and the entry plaza and also at the back of the site the exposed aggregate is the aggregate proposed for the concrete walkways and then we do have you'll notice some uh boulders in the landscape New Jersey native boulders and you can
also see the rendering of of the entry plan the next exhibit we'll see how long it takes me to get this apart is the the reduced sign so this will be A5 a5 thanks
thank you thank you thanks so basically this is a reduction uh so we don't need a variance for the sign the sign is now meeting the proper square footage and the smaller letter
height so I think we went from a 7in letter in the word beacon to a 6 in and that's um that's it that's pretty simple do you show lighting for the sign there is lighting for the sign um but I'd like to refer back to the architect
for that okay okay we'll cover that with So I can I can certainly go more in depth on exactly the plantings but but that my my presentation is very quick really in comparison to what my colleague had to present no worries
thank you so much uh just one follow-up question so the the plantings I know you mentioned the native plants and so forth deer resistant is it also designed to try to buffer the site yes thank thank you very much this is meeting all of the
buffering requirements requirements for the site and we really tried with this plan to take into consideration the trees in the park um we're really trying to do what we call seal that edge so we're trying to
provide an appropriate woodland edge that will help with the overall ecology of the neighboring woodlands on the site and that's why we have a variety of trees and shrubs of a variety of sizes and shapes so this from a landscape standpoint is compatible with the
parkland absolutely compatible with the parkland and I and there were also um questions uh about this buffer along the side of the the site i want to point out the turn is actually lower than the
rest of the site and we are planting this edge quite a bit so I don't I think that um this will be a very a very safe edge no further questions thank you Roger board experts what questions do you have
for this witness just a few okay very simply and they're in our report um did you speak with the city forester about the street trees that are required yes and we're meeting it we're meeting you are
confirmed correct and also the ordinance talks about that 5% of the lot area has landscape plant comply with that yes you did but I just needed to hear it and did you have anything to do with the
green roof design is that just simply the architect it will really be just the architect okay i have nothing else thank you Jim right covered it all for me okay great questions from our board for this witness i have one quick
question you said you're removing I think it was 29 trees is that Can you just go back to the number of trees you're I wanted to just make sure it's clear i thought you said you were planting essentially double the amount that you were taking out we are so we're removing 29 trees and we're
planting 91 just almost triple almost just over triple right and and the you know the reasoning for that is we're really using the landscape to create spaces on the site and and also um if you look at how trees grow in the
landscape unless you're doing like a really formal landscape they do go grow quite close together in order to gain ecosystem benefit from one another so you get better growth what is the average height of the trees i mean you're removing trees obviously
they're mature trees because I mean you know it's a very shaded property and you're adding those trees what's the average height of these trees that you're adding the trees vary in height for so sometimes we go by caliber so I'll describe both we have trees on on
average of um two to 2 and 1/2 in to 3 in caliper so not really big trees those tend to be 12 or 15 degrees some diameter uh yeah that's what they call the caliper in diameter so those tend to be about 12 to 15 you know it's not an absolute right they're living things
those tend to be about 12 to 15 feet we also have understory trees that will probably vary from 8 to 10 feet and then um we do have some some smaller trees that that we'll use again because we're trying to get a a multi-layered
ecosystem so they could be quite small but those are not those are not the large larger trees that you see here we tend in my practice not to use very large trees like you might see when someone wants an um you know you you go
to uh say the trade center when they install that landscape they use really large trees right we tend not to do that because the smaller trees actually establish more quickly and so within five years you'll get a tree of the same height as the larger one that you
planted which will still just be trying to establish its roots maybe too much information but that's okay this is a minor detail but I'm just curious were you able to collaborate with the architects when they were producing the renderings uh to help them work out the
species and scale of the vegetation that's shown in those images very much so okay and I'm you know I'm sorry Lewis had his travel delay the architect had his travel delay because you would have heard all that first but this is a very integrated process everything we did
really related to the spaces we were making the feeling of going into the building where the windows are in the building so that is all uh coordinated and when it came to the renderings we actually worked back and forth on those renderings we did they shipped us the
architecture we did initial renderings and then they went back and finished them so it's it's as accurate as you could be in a drawing and just added one more question along those lines were the renderings intended to show uh the
opening condition of the project or at full maturity of They're not at full maturity we usually try to show something between five and 10 years but but of course we think about how those plants will will mature over time okay perfect thank you um I have two
questions one is just I don't know maybe it's my eyes i'm having a hard time differentiating the some of the greens here can you just show us and and I might have missed it um where the rain gardens are because that's the one that I'm just having a hard time picking out
i absolutely can let me let me try to get to the right plan though um let's see is it one two there we go so the rain gardens starting from the
front there's a rain garden here at the corner of the building there's a small rain garden here and this is more of a low wet spot
not as much of a rain garden but will that last spot get redesigned if those tandem parking spaces we we'll adjust the trees out but but it'll still be the basic uh hydraologic relationship between the plants and trees here
and then the the second question is um I think some of those benches Mr malay had pointed out was it benches that had lighting at night is that this like intimate place here or is it by the play
space do you know yes so the I the idea is and this has been of course moved in as was shown in one of the exhibits but the idea is that they just have low lighting underneath the um it would be like um understood the lighting for those i
just I just see this as a space that you know even kids will come and hang out at at night and um you know the lighting turns off for the whole facility like an hour after the um I live across from a school and
there's a a playground and there are there are kids there at all hours where there are lights or not so um I'm just wondering whether maybe in that area and what I'm not sure what the just in a safety perspective like whether those
should be maybe motion activated lights in that in those areas by the benches i just see people will congregate there at night even when the lights are off and you might want those lights on or is that I'm not sure thoughts on
that we could look at that um you know certainly that was it was not meant to be lit with a lot of overhead lights because it was meant to be very subtle and it but this would go against what you just asked you know it it could be that they're they're only on if there's
and if you know a little gathering out there right but we can certainly talk about that yeah i mean I maybe I I would suggest considering making those motion sensored lights so that if somebody does come by and hang out at 11:00 at night
there's some some light yeah i was going to kind of ask because that the intimate place looks like it almost includes part of Wilson Park i know you want I know that the the church wants to um be open and welcoming it almost looks like you're
taking that this the the applicants taking advantage of this open park there is no delineation between the park and the church property so there's no fence so look if I was 16 years old and I wanted to hang out someplace that's
where I'm going so um I know I know the church talks about not having a fence around this property but u you mean even just separating the church property from the ball field might be something that you as a landscape professional might say this
might be an area where we do want to delineate because it is a it is a public park that's open to baseball and soccer and whatever else happens and then you're well like you're putting paths you're putting connections onto city property that the city approved and are
we going to approve that through this board or you just you're just taking for granted they're going to say okay so you're welcoming right you're not telling kids you can't go there is what I'm getting at and I guess I I will say and maybe I didn't properly um Roger tried to queue me there I didn't
properly describe this we do actually this line here is uh shrubs a a lot of densely planted shrubs so I think that will help with delineation of the two properties i don't think that will be particularly
attractive to walk through i mean if you're a kid of course you you might still walk through it but that won't you know the the idea is that that really becomes a hedro between the properties to try to discourage and then the you know the invitations are just at the path points really so that people can
still walk through the site if they want and and just the the sunny meadow in the front of the building that's on Springfield Avenue um this is going to sound really corny all I can think of is Little House on the Prairie and a Girls Running Down the Hill i will is that kind of like like
you have like I don't know what kind of plan you put in you will see more renderings of this with the architect so I don't have the renderings today but but let me talk to you about that a little because I'm very glad you asked um if you had worked with us maybe 20 years ago that would have been a much
more wild meadow now we tend to well we do plant these in a very controlled manner it's a few native grasses we don't have them they're they're shorter they don't go over two feet and then we selectively
put wild flowers in them we also if you notice um we have we have shrubs shrubs here and I think someone asked a question about the manholes um the idea is that we can also use these to start to to hide any of those pertinances so
we are trying to both make sure this is welcome from the street but it is it also has appropriate screening for both the passerby and the um the church itself meadows are very important and I
will not bore you with my entire lecture on the history of gap forests in the northeast right but we used to be entirely treed from the the ocean to the Mississippi and there were just small gaps that provided for habitat with
development um we've lost a lot of those gap plantings which really affects song birds so to bring back a low short meadow like this and in the Atlantic flyway is a another very important habitat for um for our song birds so
will your rendering show what the neighbors will see from across the street yes okay oh one more sure the circle is going to be planted inside and inside the circle is going to be there's going to be plants or trees or in the the roundabout
we do have plants and trees in the roundabout we did go back and forth about um we thought about that with that firetruck turn you know we we did talk about potentially doing that like in a cobble or something so you could drive right over that so we can certainly talk
with the fire chief about that you know right now we we're we're really trying to embrace that circle in the vegetation and make sure that pavement is very shaded but we also understand health safety would that how would that
affect plowing of that snow plowing going to be a problem that's a good That's a really good question too um I think for plowing and again I don't I don't run operations but I you know I would tend to to start to push the pave
the the plowing up toward these back corners you might have someone put some into the center uh which you know would probably work fine as long as we don't put a whole bunch of shrubs that could be broken right yep thank you i guess that is there okay is
there any irrigation in the system you have we are going back and forth on that now um these plants long-term won't require irrigation but in the first three years of establishment it is important that
they are irrigated right like it's little baby at the nursery sometimes what we're finding is it's less expensive to put in an irrigation for what we call establishment establishment planting and then stop using it if that's not done then we'll help the
client with a watering plan um I just to piggyback off of Mr nelson's question and this may not be for you this may actually be for the engineer but um did we talk about plowing those uh spaces with the solar
panels because you have a post right and the back side right i know so where does the snow where does the snow usually you push the snow to sort of to the front of the space on the grass where do you push the snow with the solar panels john could probably Yeah better answer that
yeah typically because the because of the column spacing allows for the plows to move in between there's space to actually push to the back of the parking spaces for the for the snow proper yeah so between the poles between any other questions from the
board for this witness okay so this point we're going to open it up to questions from the public questions only uh I apologize i'm going to limit the amount of time uh but if there's still people who want to ask
questions we'll certainly open it up at the next hearing for this witness that's how we'll we'll kick off the next one please hello Kim Leonard um I just have a few questions 93 it's very impressive that you're seriously 91 or 91 not the extra
two can you give us two more no um but can can we get some type of chart that will show what your maximum height on each one of those trees will be at planting and then at maturity for example like you're
planting 93 trees but are 50 of them 3 feet high no okay that Well that's that's I think that's important for us to know sure uh well let me just talk to you a little bit i can talk to you about averages but of
course right they're living things and all of them will have different growth rates but none of the the trees will all start at I'll say 6 to 8 feet okay okay
some of them are canopy trees like oaks that could go up to 120 i will not live to see that sadly but I plant trees so someone else can see them right um the understory trees which are the smaller pink and we we have a full plant list on
the planting plan so you can see the difference between um does it show the um height at maturity of each plant it does not show the height at maturity of each plant i just think that's important because it's buffering just for buffering let me
Did you have it John thanks give us one second because I can give you an idea sure okay there it is oh there it is no it's the problem so all of your drawings are here if you want to know any
particular set just give me the set and I'll zip through to it thank you yes so most of the trees in this shade tree category are going to at maturity be 150 ft if we're really lucky and time really
goes on they could go bigger that opaca would be on the smaller side the very last one the American holly that probably matures at 50 to 75 feet the understory trees most of those trees are going to mature at 30 to 40 feet and
then the the shrubs that that really varies we're using some dwarf varieties that won't go over three feet but we also have fulls size varieties that could be six to eight feet so when you when you look at the plan um to your question we're using larger varieties up
against the park side i see so you have it designated where where each Exactly okay okay thank you yep um another thing if Do you mind just putting back the one with the greenery on it you have a lot of faith in me
yes now this shows on the east side of the property it shows a lot of greenery there but if I understand correctly you're taking all the trees out to the property line correct uh not quite all of them but most of them yes correct most of those and then you have a city
walkway which is paved so it's not green there so okay so the upper layer that you're seeing is the canopy line of the trees in the park so that's where the trees overhang that's what we call the canopy line mhm underneath that we um
don't have a lot of of shrubs but we are actually planting that with a variety of uh grasses and ground covers okay i was just trying to figure out if there will be a strip of mature trees between the city walkway and the parking lot we
didn't include that because of the shade and the slope there it will be hard to plant them on that slope and they'll also be under a lot of shade from the existing trees so we don't think they'll have good good growth the sun is
actually um wrapping see my hand the sun is wrapping around the site like this so we're planting more trees on this side to shade that part of the parking lot okay but you do have that strip there we do correct you do have a cement a paved yes we do we do very wide paved we do we
do have that is five or six feet and then we have the the slope going up into the park i'm I'm saying right after Yeah right off of your property line there is a paved walk a city paved walkway that's actually a driveway or is it a drive driveway for emergency
vehicles that's an old residence used okay yeah there's a there's I walk it all the time it goes straight back to Wilson Park so it's I just want to I just want to mention that it doesn't really show that piece of it okay yeah no we we just showed the park as treed
we didn't show the impertinances of the park okay all right thank you you're welcome hi Rachel oh no I don't want to uh Rachel Brennan seven View Avenue i just had a question about the um play spaces and kind of
specifically the water um I don't maybe you showed a picture and I looked too quickly and I didn't see it i probably went too quickly or I looked too quickly either way um but my question is in terms of location I know um we
previously heard that there were sort of gaps that would welcome children to go from the park to kind of cut through um to kind of cut through this area and then I saw that there was potentially or
that there's going to be some sort of water play and my concern is that if children are kind of encouraged to use this as a cutthrough and they're passing water play and aren't necessarily with adults is this water play like what kind
of water are we talking about how close is it to where those openings are where children are encouraged if not encouraged not prohibited sort of from fluidly going from one space to another is there anything that might warn children or parents
that this is there is a these are not one in the same property sure and this should be on their radar okay so I do I do want to say that there is there is actually a fence and gates at this portion and as we said before this is a
fairly thick hedro um and and if I'm if I'm going let let me show you on the color first and then I'll go back to the black and white i think that will help okay awesome so this is a fairly thick planting of of what we would call a hedro so this is double density shrubs and trees and we actually see this
little piece of fence actually extends all the way around and there is a gate here so wait so sorry I'm just trying to orient i have the worst sense of direction so this is on the left of the park is the park and there is a f I
didn't realize there is a fence that is lining that property not lining the property the fence stop starts about here in the middle of the where it says great lawn and this fence wraps the site with a set of gates there the water play
is back here but now let me tell you really what the water play is because it is this is not a pool or pools of water okay and I know people always get um anxious about that what this is is what we call a pump and run system so there's
a little water pump here and then there's a runnel and I'll show you a picture and then there's a drain here so what this might look like these are kids playing actually over um at a school in uh Pennsylvania
and they can pump this pump and put water into that little trough and then it drains down into this little area so there are no pools of water and this is also the kind of the thing that could be turned off when not in use i was going
to ask is it is it turned off when not in use it could be and that would be you know an operational question and is the intent with all of these play spaces that and and I this might not be a question for you um that the children
there using them will always be supervised because I'm thinking other kids coming in won't that was the testimony I think that so the expectation is it's equipment that does require adult supervision i don't know that it requires it but the testimony was that
they would be supervised so I'm thinking with kids who are come who are in the park if they are able to kind of come into this play space and they don't have the benefit of adult supervision I'm just flagging I maybe it's something to
consider i missed I think in the picture in the prior slide um the prior slide oh or this I where um where where we looked earlier and it was sort of the open space for sure residents to to kind of
walk through between the spaces how close is that to the to the park areas so this is the park on the left or to the play spaces here that we were looking at the play space is immediately adjacent to the building
okay so they first Okay so you would have to So is that where is the fence open that fence and then come in here okay okay got it okay thank you or you'd have to kind of fight your way through the shrubs okay got it thank you very
much thank you hi Nicole Deloro one Oakley um a few questions for you can you actually go back to the slide where you have the trees that are being removed sure with the circles and the X's that one okay perfect um so can you
explain to me the purpose of a side buffer as like a lay person like why why does why do we have to have them in a residential neighborhood you mean a buffer of trees a side buffer whether it's plantings shrubs basically
a border around the property as per the zoning ordinances i can't speak to exactly why this ordinance has them but usually it's so that you buffer one property from the other would you say that it can help maintain the character of the
neighborhood because you have that buffering between yes very much so okay so on the eastern side right there's eight deciduous trees that will remain that's correct right
correct okay and then for the ones that you are planting when I count them there's the 91 that you state 29 are shade 50 are understory but then the remainder 70 plus are shrubs they're not
trees yeah shrub uh maybe I have my math wrong so what I'm thinking is that 10 20 30 40 50 i think I'm correct i will double
check that number for you okay if since we can't meet the shade requirement on the eastern side would you consider ever planting deciduous or evergreen on the adjacent lot on the western side because
if if there's not a lot of tree cover basically all of Oakley will look at the solar canopies especially if the ground cover is mostly shrubs and not trees so I'm sorry I'm misunderstanding from which direction on the eastern side this
side yes you don't have the the real estate basically to plant the required shade trees because of the parking so you're planting the majority of the shade trees on the western side of the property that
um in in my knowledge of the site this has a lot of shrubs and actually a lot of invasive growth here i think it would be very difficult to see through those shrubs are being removed it's like a lot of brush not the shrubs in the park we're not touching we can't touch
anything in the park it's It's actually So it's a lot adjacent that's owned by the city i don't think it's actually technically the park but is there a way to get some sort of higher coverage rather than a short shrub or grasses on the eastern side of the property we
could add more i don't see why we couldn't add more shrubs there my only concern with adding trees is that I think it's going to be too shady i don't think they'll live okay thank you do you have any renderings of what the view and I actually was thinking about that
before the canopies but um now that Mr delori brought that up of the view from say the parking lot through what can I see of Oakley because I I walk through there too and you know there's definitely what what is the road or the
walkway one side of it is completely open from this is the city part um there's not a lot of foliage between Oakley the corner of Oakley and where the driveway starts and then on the if I'm facing it on the left side of the
driveway kind of that's where that you know some of those shrubs are or overgrown whatever it is i mean it weeds maybe um but some of that is going to be removed so is there any kind of rendering to show us what it's going to look like when you're whether you're on
Oakley and you're looking through and whether you're on the driveway and looking towards Oakley like both directions is there something that we have them we could we could certainly do one i think that would be helpful sure sure and I mean I don't you know I don't
see a problem if if we want more shrubs on that side because that becomes a concern as I said I remember it being being pretty overgrown but we'll look again hi please uh Jeff Sullivan 12 Pacic
Avenue uh the ordinance for a parking lot requires a 5-ft buffer plus evergreen landscaping for yearround privacy does this plan uh meet that requirement around the
parking lot do you know we don't we have not used a lot of evergreens but I believe that we've met the requirement given the um park around it we can
certainly add more evergreens but I don't think I don't think with the density of this planting you would ever and I guess even comes more into play on the uh on the right side there right where we do actually have a lot of
evergreen um I mean like the whole perimeter of the parking lot yeah sure is the is the uh ordinance I'm referring to right i I feel that we're we're meeting it but certainly we can talk about more ever okay
and yeah so if it wasn't I was wondering if it was noted as one of the uh no variance requests okay thanks thank you hi um Eric Young Juj 36 Oakley Avenue um so you said that you were building a
fence around the playground on the property and I was wondering um you know in your professional opinion like if those same safety concerns should also be applied to the playground that's on the other side of uh the roundabout uh
which is a public playground uh and we've talked about that quite a bit so that would be I suppose to the northwestern side here um or that or what would prevent you from putting in a fence there just for addressing those
exact same safety concerns well I I'm not exactly sure what what you're worried about but we have trees in the way and this site is lower than the other site it would be really difficult
for a car to somehow get up that slope into the park so in my opinion I don't see that as a safety concern but what about kids running onto uh the the the roundabout or onto the the parking area well the the playground is a distance
away and they would be crossing a path okay so so I don't I don't I hear what you're saying but I that didn't occur to me as a concern professionally because certainly they could also by that token run into the school parking lot okay
right uh sure i mean it's maybe like a little further um than than this but um Okay i I guess so you you think it's not needed um All right fair um and then can you talk a little bit about um just to
what extent light pollution or mitigation from light pollution has um factored into your designs sure this is all night sky so all of these are down lights and there's the the we've met the cut off requirements for the edges of the property and then also as we've
already discussed um these are going to go off at a time that is that is in compliance you know from our perspective from the architect and the landscape architect we don't want to what we call blow the site with light it's it's not the intent of how it should look and
it's also really not very good for the ecology of the site so we're trying to be very mindful of that great um thank you so now there's a a change proposed to this plan where um maybe we'll add
some uh tandem parking correct that's right here so to what extent like does that impact your considerations around light pollution and mitigation thereof if you have to remove the trees well I don't think we'll remove them we'll just move them inboard in other words we'll
just move them and we have the space correct all right well thank you you're welcome thank you hello my name is Gorkas Sarasa 37 Oakley Avenue SA so the question I have is how many
years will we have to wait until the trees cover this massive bulk of the building from Oakley Avenue well um we're actually not proposing that that that bulk is completely obscured because you'll see in the
architect's renderings um it's important to have views of it but I'm talking about Oakley Avenue oh I'm sorry oakley Oakley well there this is already full there's lots of there's lots of trees in here now so yeah but now we can see the
building the existing buildings pretty clearly right so I mean I think what I'm hearing is a request for some more shrub plantings along along this edge so we can look at and we can absolutely look at that and you know shrubs again I
don't recommend coming in with like super big plants because they take so long to establish i say that you get things that are between three and four feet and then depending how quickly they grow probably
in you know four to eight years you would certainly have a variegated depending what we plant and when I talk to people about planting I try to talk to them about um it's often more effective not to make
a single line of planting but do a staggered planting and that's why we we did this over here because a staggered planting at multi heights tends to trick the eye better than you know like the that row of our variety that you see around a transformer so that's what
we're trying to employ and we could certainly look at that there does that help to answer and then from your professional point of view would you prefer trees versus solar canopies they are the same
i think we have to be really careful when we make it an either or um you know trying to be sustainable is usually a kit of parts if you want a building to use less electricity which
has a very large impact on the environment then it's very important to install solar in this case I think the way these are positioned and the way we are putting trees in we're actually going to shade
this so the canopy will shade this and the trees on this uh western side will begin to to shade this this parking lot so I it's just hard for me to answer that as an eitheror because it isn't an an eitheror
um I think in this case it is better to have the solar and reduce energy loads than it is to worry about those trees every 10 parking spaces and and I'll I want to talk to that one minute
more because and I I use this as the um like the Kmart analogy when you go to Kmart right it's great they met the code and they planted the trees except the trees really don't have enough soil volume to
grow and make a difference so those trees tend to stay static in a parking lot the tree you get on year one is very similar to the tree you get on year 15 when we plant trees in a situation like this they have a lot more soil volume so I think you'll actually get
much better growth than if we put you know like a five or eight foot strip so hopefully that gives you an answer i'm following up on this in this sustainability considerations are you thinking the holistic process of manufacturing solar
panels the metal structures the cement the concrete that goes into the piles versus the tree where you just one we have used when we have manufactured all that it's like oh once when we put it yes it's more sustainable you want to talk carbon
sequestration no I'm just asking this question to see if we're using in the assessment that part i think we're this is getting a little far field from landscaping okay question it's it's a it's I mean you know it's it's a good question but but it is a complex calculation which I I
think I think we know thanks thank you can I make one request if you are going to bring renderings the next time from both directions from Oakley and from the parking lot um can that also include maybe what this canopy
is going to look like after 5 years we've seen that with a number of other um applications where they show us what it looks like at the time of planting and you know so it's a basically a vertical view as as opposed to looking
down on it we're looking across at it um like a cross-section of what it looks like at time of planting so some of the shrubs are three feet some of the trees are 10 feet but in five years this is what it's supposed to look like we think it's going to look like and I can see
you know the building and the solar panels what you know what's covered what's not covered in in five years because I think that goes to answer a couple of the questions that the public has brought up i don't see I don't see why we can't do it either i mean again you know stick
stick with me on this everything has a different growth rate so we will estimate this to the best of our professional ability sure but we also um don't like our renderings to fib so great thank you you're very welcome one
more quick question maybe not this will be a real fast one this elevations of the that are on the side of the parking lot yes going to the west to the east side is that due to construction or is that natural those elevations are you building the parking lot up the parking
lot's uh down actually it's down yeah yeah so that I'm glad you pointed that out because the parking lot's actually lower so that will also help to cut views across that park thank you thank you thank you so Roger you have three more uh we have
the architect traffic and planner okay so obviously we're going to need carry and you've discussed keep going till 4 in the morning you don't have four i love that you think we'd finish
by 4 i did not put him up to that so the the next available regularly scheduled meeting is July 21st uh I know that's a ways out and I know the board is talking about potentially trying to
accommodate a special meeting yeah certainly i will talk to the church about you know the possibility of a special meeting if a if you find a date yes so I think we're working on that if that is what you'd prefer to do if everything works out scheduling what we
could do is place it on for the next hearing date simply for scheduling purposes only noting that we're not going to hear the hearing that night it's only to establish a date for the next hearing sure so don't get worried people that want to see the hearing it it's not going to be anything
substantive at the next hearing it's just going to be for scheduling that's great then we can stay in touch on dates once you all look at your calendar that would be on April 21st if I'm not mistaken um I imagine we're going to carry it
obviously without further notice until that point um do you have a question about that just for the benefit of the public so that they don't have to come on April 21st to hear when the next date is can you just tell people how they will find out when when the case will be
heard sure so assuming we don't want to watch the video to find out it will be posted on the website when that carry date is established um so you can all just check the website at that point um so we certainly wave
thank you the time frame great um is there a motion to carry without further notice so moved second nicole can you call the role please yes sir thank you mr malay yes mr nelson yes
mr steiner yes miss Zan yes miss Chief yes mr fes yes mr tanuli yes chairman Lis yes thank you thank you all right and we're going to close this hearing now and take care of four pieces of business is that right close it to the
public two resolutions right resolutions and minutes oh all right we have res we have resolutions in minutes and resolutions can you try to be quiet for us yeah i'm I'm We're still in the meeting sorry thank you
great i can't move either one of them so Yeah uh resolutions for memorialization we have zoning board application 242261 this is for 573 Springfield
Avenue this is the southern fees building the board approved the application with the following conditions updated landscape and storm water management plans compliance with requirements set forth in the port engineers memorandum compliance with current lighting standard and the HPC's
request for construction inconsistent with design guidelines the board will maintain jurisdiction over landscape and lighting good um get a motion to approve hold on so the same members are the same people
that can vote for the next one did you want to bundle them yes cool zoning board application 242271 this is 28 London Dairy Way board unanimously approved this application this is for a one-story addition at the rear of the house and replacement of
pre-existing deck which provides the applicants a view of the arboritum um so the individuals that can vote on this are Mr nelson Mr changuli Mr nearing Miss Chief Miss uh Vice Chair Zon and Chairman Lus can I get a motion
so move second thank you uh Mr nelson yes mr chantuli yes mr nearing yes miss Chief yes vice Chair Zan yes chairman Lucas yes okay both
resolutions approved can we just to be safe I'm probably being too nitpicky can we do a separate motion for the separate resolution the second one can I get another motion for 28 lender motion second sorry no worries i'm not going to bundle
anything else we need a roll call you want a roll call for this one too all right mr nelson yes mr tantuli yes mr nearing yes miss Chief yes vice Chair yes chairman Lois yes learned my lesson
um it was my fault i I was encouraging i was wondering about that myself we do it for council um so minutes for memorialization we have March 3rd uh any amendments questions comments concerns no the members that can vote for this
are Mr nelson Mr steiner Miss Chief Mr tenantuli Mr nearing and Vice Chair Zhan i need a motion so move second thank you voice vote okay voice vote all in favor opposed
cool um March 12th 2025 minutes any questions comments concerns amendments nope the individuals that can vote on this Mr nelson Mr tanchuli Mr nearing Miss Chief Vice Chair Zon and Chairman Lis can I get a motion so move
second thank you voice vote all in favor opposed march 17th minutes uh the individuals that can vote on this is Mr nelson Mr steiner Miss Chief Mr tanguli Mr nearing
Vice Chair on and Chairman Loyas can I get a motion so moved so moved can I get a second second thank you all in favor i opposed can I get a motion to adjurnn
motion to second i'll second there we go i will not be here