##VIDEO ID:bjb6AP1jvBQ## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening and welcome to the January 22nd 2025 meeting of the city of summit Zoning Board of adjustment my name is Scott lit and I am the chair of the Zoning Board of adjustment please rise and join us in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge Ali to the flag of the United States of America and to the for it stands one nation indivisible lice for all thank you in accordance with New Jersey statute 10 col 4-10 adequate notice of the special meeting has been provided to a newspaper record has been posted here in City Hall this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times for the benefit of the interested public this meeting is being live streamed on the city's YouTube channel and also broadcast on sum summit's government Channel which is Comcast channel 34 and Verizon channel 30 the transcript of this meeting is also being taken using video and audio so we need all speakers to utilize one of the microphones in the room please note that the fire exits are to my right your left and the back of the room where you entered the city has a listening system to assist the hearing impaired if anyone needs hearing assistance please obtain the system at the Das and return it thereafter Miss zulio please call the role of the members sure chairman lyit here Vice chair Zan here Mr Steiner here Mr Yuko here Mr Nelson here Mr Kieran is excused Mr Malay is excused miss chfo here Mr feskin here Mr Chuli here Mr nering here you have a quarum you may proceed thanks Stephanie Andy ball is our zoning board's attorney but Andy's not here tonight so filling in for him will be Zach cinski sorry Zach do that every time uh our board attorney advises board members on matters of Law and is the key interface with the applicants attorney Mr ball typically does not vote on applications Stephanie suos is a city employee and is the zoning board secretary the suos works with applicants on preparing their applications planning our agendas and keeping our meeting minutes as julos also does not vote on these applications also present are our experts who are hired annually by the board to provide input tonight we have Marie rafay uh from colar engineering also present is Steve Leiden uh from Burgess uh sitting in for Ed snikes uh and acting as board planner these experts are seated at the table to the right of the board The public's left they also do not vote on the applications our board consists of seven regular members and up to four alternates all members can participate in the hearings tonight but only a maximum of seven can vote most applications require a simple majority to be approved before we enter executive session to vote on the application you will be advised of how many votes are required each case will begin with the applicants or their attorney giving an overview of the application um the application process to date and the variances that are required when we hear we then hear from any additional expert witnesses that the applicant may have to help explain the application and why the variances are needed the board experts followed by the board members may ask questions of the applicant their attorney and expert Witnesses uh I also want to note uh due to recent cases running excessively long we strongly encourage applicants and their experts to give brief and concise testimony so we may get through as many cases as possible in a given evening once the board members and the board professionals have completed their questioning the public will have an opportunity to ask questions this is not the time to tell us of what you think about the case that'll come later that um please be careful as to how you phrase your questions they should not be proceeded with a statement about the case but should be a direct question to the witness also before you ask your questions please clearly state your name spell your last name and provide us your address it's important that our court reporter be able to keep a clear and accurate public record after all Witnesses have been heard members of the audience have their second opportunity to speak that is the time when you Maya come up and express your opinion positive or negative about the application then the public hearing is closed and we enter into executive session this is where the board members discuss the case and vote you'll be able to listen to the executive session but normally not be able to participate in that discussion I will ask each applicant Andor their attorney if present to come up and give a brief synopsis their anticip anticipated testimony tonight including the number of witnesses and whether or not they can finish their presentation within 30 minutes um so to start uh number one nrk for 573 Springfield thanks Mr chairman members of the board it is understood that the board has gracious great all right thank you thank you all right next uh Roy Johnson 12 Hillside we need for what's that we need for car oh we do all right uh can I get a motion to carry 573 Springfield so moved to March 12th get a second second Mr Steiner yes chairman lit yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Vice chair Zan yes Miss Cho yes Mr feskin yes the motion carries great thank you I'm sorry are we doing with notice or without notice just for the record without without notice without notice okay all right Mr Johnson even my name is Roy Johnson iue I'm here of myself and my wife Susan we are requesting Rel regulations are varant for rear yard St back allation of an air conditioning compressor um in the backyard of our home so minor description Sor are we going right into it or no no I just want I just want to do the summary first so okay um so there a fairly modest request residence is a TW story Cape style house over on Hillside Avenue in the Lincoln area District we have deal with a lot of nonconforming condition in the proper on the property and in the neighborhood houses and work included the inst of aess to Serv a the Mr johnon do you do you expect your testimony to take 30 minutes or less yes all right excellent thank you all right hopefully it'll take five minutes well we will get back to you in just a minute thank you sir all right and for our last case of the evening do I have have a representative for okol yes right come on up uh Hillary from Dempsey Dempsey and she I'm representing Oak School of the holy Child we have six experts and we will not complete our application of their Eves all right Hillary how many experts do you think you'll get through tonight if you had a guess the board will sit through all right we'll take that perfect thank you so much Hillary all right uh our attorney is going to swear you Mr Johnson please raise your right hand in state and spell your name for the record Roy Johnson r y j h s o do you do you swear from the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do thank you I'm sorry just for the record I just want to note that Mr Yugo has recused thank you Stephanie so as I mentioned we're looking to install airing compressor in the of home would basically be in a nonconforming already nonconforming back at home so we're looking for reling rear yard setback um property has a lot of nonconforming issues now it's a very small tight lot it's about 60t wide by about 80 ft loc comach impacting a right away or A View From the street so after some consideration um and a lot of you know conation ideal location public View and impact of the neighbors so the air conditioning unit is about 30 by by 30 in rest on a small pad and like I said after consideration we should really know PR location to place theit on the property positive criteria allows the installation of a central air conditioning unit in an over home of small lot impact of locations the neighbors the city is NE efficiency unit will be can be surrounded by a shroud or a screen if necessary um basically the variance the request for the variance could be granted to any public good oring the attemp of zoning plan or existing the proposed plac has no negative impact building properties the neighborhood or the city of summit rear yard property line is not boarded by a resal structure adjacent structure on the re property line large multi Department complex riew this is probably the most logical placement for the unit no one will see itar it or be impacted by it in any way um the city agencies and Council basically review the application back with no comment or no obje actually a few of rers probably the ideal for the UN sotion Rel and approval of VAR I'll turn it over to the board and see if anybody has any questions or concerns regarding the application great we'll check in them with our experts first to see if they have any questions okay Marie do you have anything um so the one thing I noticed was on the application you said it would have a screen around it which I don't think the planner has said that it doesn't need a screen because it's in the rear yard but do you plan on putting a screen around it we could put one up again the screen a shroud you know that might not be the right description for I think one of the reviewers from the environmental commission just putting up some native alternative to that is a great idea we have a lot of in the wife but again it's out of the right away nobody sees it nobody hears it imp anybody and it wouldn't be a structural screen of any and strictly detected right okay right that's all I have great Steve do you have anything yeah I do thank you mrman just a few questions if I might um you mentioned there's a garage behind your property do you know off hand how close that garage is is to your building to your property L and how and how long that so there's actually there's an easement I don't know if the easement is still there or still recognized on the um on the survey but basically I think our existing house is about 19 feet off the back property line and then this pad is about 30 by 30 so I think the setback for the back property is 25 ft we're already nonconforming by I think six feet or 5et and change and then this just a couple of couple of feet to that I think it brings it down to 17 a change yeah actually I was I was asking about the garage behind your property right do you know how tall that is or how close it is to your property line it's 10 feet it's basically right on the property line it's covered with Ivy it's you know it's it's been there forever it really is just B monic structure that doesn't you know Rumble serves as a fence or a barrier for the back of our property so no one from that property would be able to see your air conditioning compressor correct or hear it okay and then you have detach garage of your own do you not I do yes and that would also appear to block views of anybody from the uh from the north is that correct that is correct actually the whole backyard is fenced in so it's really a captive a nice tidy captive area like I said it's got a lot of mature planting a lot of flowers a lot of trees a lot of foliage fenced in it's got the you know the neighbors or the the um the multi-unit dwelling um garage ordering our property on the back and the garage our garage is to the you're looking at the house is to the right of it at the foot of the at the end of the driveway so and understanding the the Chairman's wish that we'd be quick on both Sid both your properties are boarded by adjacent driveways is that correct so the dwellings are somewhat that is correct actually that is correct yes somewhat remote from your property line uh there's a set back as far as they can be given the side the LOD yes all right I I have no other questions Mr CH thank you great thank you Steve uh questions from the board for this witness seeing none do we have questions from the public questions only right seeing none uh do you have a closing statement not really I um I hope under consideration or after consideration this will be approved I it's the least offensive place to put it all right great thank you Mr Johnson um any comments from the public seeing none so will the board render a decision tonight yes sir at the conclusion of the hearing I think we're gonna have a very extensive debate on this and then we will we'll vote immediately do I need to stick around that's yes you'll know about five minutes or less yes sir how many votes do we need for this four okay great so we'll open it up to Executive session whether there any conditions oh yes thank you Mr just the standard uh letter yeah just the standard letter we want to make condition no no just standard letter just one condition right who wants to begin j i I'll kick this off I first I want to applaud Mr Johnson that was one of the clearest quickest simplest presentations for what I think is a completely reasonable there's a hardship it's it's a small lot you're not going to be impacting your neighbors on either side between the questions you presented the questions from our planner this is the clearest answer I would completely support this let's move it forward anyone else there no negatives there are lots of positives and I think we all ought to support it great with that can I get a motion to approve so I'll second okay Mr Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes Vice chair Zan yes Miss chfo yes Mr feskin yes Mr Chuli yes chairman lyit yes the motion carries right good luck Mr Johnson thank you very you're good to go uh you should know that there's a resolution that will come out in about a month don't move forward until you get that resolution and uh have the opportunity to review it and comply with all its conditions thank you great thank you sir Hillary you're up the high bar I did this in five minutes note for the record that Mr Yuko has rejoined okay good evening um Hillary OLS from Dempsey Dempsey and Shen representing the applicant oakal School of the holy Child Inc regarding property located at 44 Blackburn Road and 72 Prospect Street block 3103 Lots 2 and three in the R15 Zone okol school is celebrating its Centennial year as a private educational institution in the heart of summit the school has been a part of the Summit Community and its current neighborhood since 1924 when it acquired the laed estate Oak's mission is the education and growth of the whole Child by providing an intellectually challenging and creative program of study that Fosters excellence in every aspect of school life to meet the wants of the age in furtherance of that mission it is necessary for oakl to modernize its facilities to adapt to the constantly evolving nature of Education which requires a fluid development of schools themselves in order to continue to advance the education of children the improvements proposed by oakal were specifically designed to overcome the challenges of the site and provide a modern and functional facilities that can meet the needs of today's students there are four main elements to the proposed project first our additions to Tisdale Hall which was last renovated in 1996 second are additions to Connelly Hall which was built in 1956 third is to add on-site parking in the area behind mhe Hall which is also known as 76 Prospect Street and finally to incorporate 72 Prospect Street back into the school's conditional use 72 Prospect Street had previously been owned by oakal um and used for school purposes from 1952 until 1971 the applicant is seeking consolidation of the lots for two and three um preliminary and final major site plan conditional use approval and deviations from the conditional use standards regulating coverages heighten stories minimum front and sidey yard setbacks parking locations and setbacks and buffer requirements an F variance uh bulk variances including fence height signage development within regulated steep slopes parking dimensional in striping and lighting and modifications from certain prior conditions of approval the specifics of each of these variances will be described in more detail by the applicant and its experts during the presentation I think it is important to note at the outset that the school that schools are classified in the municipal land use law as inherently beneficial uses which means a school is universally considered a value to the community because it fundamentally serves the public good and promotes the general welfare Oak is not is not only an inherently beneficial use but an existing permitted conditional use in evaluating non-conformities de dealing with inherently beneficial uses the courts have determined that the pro positive criteria is presumptively satisfied focusing the discussion on the negative criteria the negative criteria is evaluated for inherently beneficial uses by determining if there is substantial negative impacts or impairments as a direct result of the proposed improvements and if there are conditions that can be crafted to mitigate those perceived impacts or impairments in this case most of the building additions are interior to the site shielded by other buildings or sufficiently screened and will have little to no impact on the neighbors the school is adding parking on site improving perimeter Landscaping improving storm water management and retaining the residential appearance of the house Carriage House and driveways at 72 Prospect Street all of which have a direct positive impact on the neighborhood in addition this application is also subject to the religious land use and institutional persons Act of 2000 which provides that land use regulations shall not be imposed or implemented in a manner that impose a substantial burden on the religious exercise of a person including an institution unless the imposition of that burden is in furtherance of a compelling government interest and is the least restrictive means of furthering that compelling government interest so that means that this application is benefited as a religious use protected under the Constitution is an inherently beneficial use under the laws of the state of New Jersey and is a permitted conditional use in the district under the ordinances of the city of summit the presentation for this application will begin with Jennifer Landis head of oakal school followed by the architect Ralph Rosenberg civil engineer Dan and sonol traffic engineer Craig peroy landscape architect Marlo roller and it will conclude uh with the applicants planner John Barry so if there are no questions I will be happy to call the first witness any questions right pleas okay Jennifer Landis for to here whichever is more comfortable attorney and if you do the favor of stating your name and spelling for the record please Jennifer Landis j n i f r l n d i s do you swear or affirm the testimony your to give us the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth thank you okay uh Miss Landis can you please tell the board the positions of responsibility that you have had at Oak School yes I in my 11th year at okol I six years as the head of the upper school which is the seventh through 12th grade there one year as the associate head of school and now I'm in my fourth year as the head of school I also uh lived in Summit with my family for five years and in your current capacity as head of school are you authorized to speak on behalf of oakal school in regards to the application pending before the board yes I am okay can you describe the objectives underlying the proposed improvements and how they further the school's Mission yes um as as you mentioned Hillary this is our our Centennial year um marking our 100th year of holy Child education and Summit we are very proud of that Legacy and excited about our future here in this town one of the adages of our founder is that we must meet the wants of the age and this concept impels us to be reflective and to evolve making sure that the educational experience at okol serves our students well year after year decade after decade and in this case in this particular Milestone it begs us to ask this question as we enter our second century during my time at okol I review the academic and Mission related needs of the school striving to stay relevant and current with best practices in teaching and learning and there are several challenges that we've struggled with over many years that we' have asked NK Architects and dynamic engineering to help us find Creative Solutions to to address these challenges improve the function of our program and facilities and help us deliver on our mission to educate young people in the very best way possible the concepts that we're sharing tonight reflect the culmination of our efforts to address our institutional needs and respond to and incorporate the feedback we've received from our neighbors over the last two years there are six uh primary objectives of the plan um but before I touch on each of those six um I thought it might be helpful to quickly highlight some of the characteristics of our campus uh the school is is called it's named Oak null and named as such because of the tall oak trees that are on the property there but also because the school is situated on a null it's essentially built on top of a hill um this is both beautiful and challenging for us um we have a beautiful location looking kind of over Memorial Field in a residential area um but it also is not kind of a flat property um which creates a little bit of a challenge for us we also have several fronts to our campus with perimeters on Blackburn Road on Prospect Street on lned road and on Ashlin road we love our location um and also are face challenges by how we're situated and having this in mind just helps illustrate some of the issues that we're trying to solve and how the Creative Solutions uh that we are are seeking are necessary in order for us to work through those challenges so the the objectives of the plan fall into six categories uh the first is programmatic the second environmental sustainability the third accessibility the fourth parking the fifth storm water management and the last Landscaping so I'll begin uh with programmatic uh regarding our programmatic needs we are primarily seeking to increase our flexibility with academic and extracurricular space we currently operate at a room usage rate that creates significant challenges for the teaching and learning experience for our teachers and our students so in short we need more space more classroom space for the population that we currently have to maximize the benefit of our program we are also challenged by shared spaces particularly for per PE for physical education and for performances we have one gym for 14 grade levels which restricts the schedule in both of our divisions both in our lower school and in our Upper School uh it limit Limits The Recess opportunities and options for our lower School St students particularly during inclement weather and creates tremendous difficulty with our scheduling and the space just simply doesn't accommodate all of our needs additionally our upper school students do not have any casual Gathering space and our Upper School faculty members do not have a faculty room this impacts our library which becomes a de facto Gathering space for students which then creates a situation for other students who are seeking quiet spaces to study to try to find a different to study and just creates a general challenge with the use of of those spaces regarding environmental sustainability one of the responsibilities set forth by the goals and criteria of holy Child education by which we are bound is quote to accept and respond to the moral obligation for the conscientious care of creation we have a committee that is partnering with experts on environmental sustainability and ways that we can do our part to reduce our carbon footprint and improve our Energy Efficiency and the building plans that we have in mind here will help has improve in those areas in multiple buildings regarding accessibility we are also looking to improve barrier-free access we do not have elevators in several of our buildings on our campus and it can be very difficult to navigate the campus especially for someone who is injured or has any other Mobility challenges this plan would all would allow us to have elevators in two buildings which would be a significant Improvement for our campus Ralph Rosenberg from NK Architects will present in detail the plans for the campus improvements for us related to parking we have two few spaces on site to accommodate our needs based on the feedback from the neighbors and specific requests from the prior uh zoning officer Christ Anderson at the technical review committee meeting to look at Creative Solutions to alleviate some of the paring issues faced by the school the application proposes to add a 19 car parking area be behind M Hall at 76 Prospect Street the school has piloted the use of these additional on-site parking spaces behind Mall with notification to the city as requested which has had very good results these additional on-site spaces improved the challenges we face and improved parking concerns on the perimeter roadways I should note this application is specifically and primarily designed to address current educational academic and administrative needs of the existing okol community and in no way is designed to increase enrollment beyond what it has been over the years additionally the application does not contemplate any increase in existing conditions relative to offsite and perimeter parking and perimeter vehicular circulation in fact the proposal should reduce some of the perimeter parking issues because of the addition of the proposed on-site parking although the proposed application will improve the parking issues in the area it will not eliminate them the school and I personally recognize that parking and circulation will be an ongoing subject and we are prepared to engage in a collaborative process of once this application is completed to explore ways to address those items which involve the neighbors the school and the City of summit once the application is concluded the school will be happy to facilitate a meeting with the designated representatives of these three essential groups to explore opportunities and creative ways to adjust parking in the area surrounding the school Craig Parago from Dynamic traffic will speak more about parking and circulation later this evening regarding storm water management storm water management is a concern that is shared between the school and the neighbors we have partnered with Dynamic engineering to assess the current ation and develop a plan to manage storm water the application that we have submitted includes a storm water management plan which will capture all the additional runoff created by the proposed improvements and will improve current conditions and provide additional relief danol from Dynamic will walk the board through those elements of the plan as well and lastly regarding Landscaping we have taken steps to address the aesthetic of lned road as well as the additional screen of campus and the new proposed parking area and gym Edition to make sure the camp perimeter is attractive and in line with the beauty of the neighborhood Marlo roller licensed landscape architect from Dynamic engineering will touch on those those elements of thank you um and recognizing that the school's professionals will testify in more detail can you briefly provide the board with a general overview of what is proposed as part of this application to meet the objectives that you've just laid out yes uh the two additions proposed to our gym toal Hall will create much needed flexible space and provide Ada accessibility to the building it will Al also allow us to move our nurses station to our main level which will be more effective and efficient for helping sick or injured students the lower Connelly Edition will provide additional classrooms a community Commons and an innovation lab we are currently operating below the industry standard with the number of classrooms that we have and additionally the lack of a community Commons and lounge space has negatively impacted the use of our library and some offices this addition will allow us to add an elevator which we currently do not have in this building and this elevator will go a long way in helping individuals with injury and other Mobility challenges to navigate our campus more easily the upper Connelly addition will provide us with additional classroom space and student lounge space as well which will also serve to mitigate the challenges that I've noted with our space and through this application we also seek to reincorporate 72 Prospect Street house uh back into the school's footprint uh which would also uh provide us with a total of eight additional paring there and lastly we seek to add 19 space parking area behind M Hall as noted earlier and just for clarification are the improvements proposed designed to increase enrollment no as stated previously the improvements are to meet the current academic educational and administrative needs and improve the function of our programming facilities okay uh you mentioned incorporating 72 Prospect Street back into the school use can you tell the board and members of the interested public what is proposed for that building yes um as mentioned earlier 72 Prospect Street was actually part of the school's campus from 1952 to 1971 and it is our hope to bring the building back into the campus The Proposal is to leave the existing home Carriage House and driveways as they are uh because they they are beautiful elements of the area and we are not seeking to change um the aesthetic at all we'd like it to maintain the residential look and feel um and the as for used proposed uses the school is looking that building for offices possibly including marketing and Communications advancement enrollment management or business functions um as well as storage and then having facilities and maintenance use in the carriage house and why are these uses a good fit for the space these would be the best uh since the house is not located in the primary part of campus and those functions are not student focused so we wouldn't have students um walking to that portion of the campus they would not require changes to the house in any substantial way and it alleviate challenges on the main part of Campus allowing for spaces currently used for offices to become some meeting rooms and other spaces the existing Carriage House in the back of the property will be used for maintenance on the first floor in the garage area and there's an existing apartment on the second floor which is occupied by an employee of the school who is also on call for 24 hours a day in the event of any emergencies or issues on the campus perfect um and have you had an opportunity to review the administrative comments with regard to this application yes in response to those comments can you tell the board the location and timing of the garbage and recycling pickup yes garbage and recycling are currently stored outside of the back of Conelly dining hall both are picked up daily Monday through Friday at approximately 6:00 a.m. by a disposal service company which can we have a contract and this application wouldn't change that right that's correct and can you confirm the timing of the site lighting recognizing the architect and civil engineer will testify later regarding the proposed additional lighting yes all outside parking lot and building external lighting uh are set on manual timers the timers are set from Sunset to Sunrise and are internal to the campus and do not spill into the neighboring properties we are proposing Lighting in the new parking area for safety purposes and Dam will go into more detail about that aspect uh with regard to the parking on site can you tell the board if there are assigned parking for students and employees yes the school has 15 spots for regular student drivers and an additional space used by by students who may have injuries or other needs that require them to park on campus in that designated spot there are a few other designated spots for visitors and the head of school and the rest are open parking spaces for employees um Oak's campus has been the subject of Prior approvals from the city of summit can you confirm for the board if the school has complied or is in compliance with any applicable conditions of those prior approvals yes I've reviewed all the prior resolutions of approval for the school's property and the school is in compliance with all the conditions of the prior approvals with one exception this condition relates to the 2008 approval which was for the incorporation of 76 Prospect Street which is now M Hall into the school's use and it required that students not parked within the first 16 spaces on lned road closest to Ashland I looked into this and it is an area that we have not been in compliance we do have community members who have been parking in that area uh it used to be an area used by buses to line up pick up however there are few buses that come now and over time drivers began to park there I would ask that this be a change in the condition from 2008 it's consistent with the rest of the use of l Road and is also helpful in limiting the number of cars that would then seek to park on other streets the application is also is requesting an additional modification of one of the conditions of the approval from 2008 that condition which was the result of discussions and comments with the then neighbor at 72 Prospect Street prohibited the from using M hall for parking this application proposes a 19 space parking area in the rear of M Hall which will be heavily screened from view by the neighbors and which will alleviate some of the parking congestion around the perimeter of the school thank you um has the school had any neighborhood meetings associated with the proposed with the proposal yes uh the schools had four neighborhood meetings on September 29th 2022 December 8th 2022 September 13th 2023 and January 9th 2025 and what was the outcome of those meetings overall the meetings were positive the neighbors have been thoughtful in their engagement with us and it has been extremely helpful to have a dialogue with them and hear their insights and concerns which really did help us shape the final plans of what has been proposed in this application we've been able to address what we can in the short term and also consider some Creative Solutions for the long term and I um truly thank our neighbors neighbors for their engagement throughout this process and although um theyve been mentioned can you just State um if you have any professionals that have been retained to assist in the development of plans on the presentation of this application yes uh civil engineers Dan son and Danielle waser Architects Walter and Ralph Rosenberg landscape architect Marlo roller traffic engineer Craig Parago and planner John Barry thanks I don't have any other questions great do our our board experts have any questions for this witness I don't Mr chairman no I had some but I I think they were adequately answered of this applic perfect thank you any questions from the board for this witness I just have one question um 72 Prospect Street you says it was part of the campus yes so it's is it so it's not used at all for the school correct right now the school does own the property but it is rented out to it's a residential home for family um I have a question as well um you said that uh the schools right now operating sort of below the standard for the number of classrooms can you tell us a little bit more what that means like what is what is the standard I can so this was one of the the first things I was asked to do upon my arrival at o when I was the head of the upper school um I had recently done some work at my previous school on scheduling and Analysis of room usage um the the industry standard says that schools should operate at about 75% usage of a given classroom which allows some flexibility um at okol uh I'd say 80% of our classes are classrooms this is in our upper school are operating at 100% usage and the 20% that are not are rooms that are specialized rooms so for example the dark room or the dance studio or an art room so what happens if you have a a a bunch of kids that are all signing up for let's AP European History and you need to break that class into two sections to accommodate them because there's a lot of interest that year we wouldn't necessarily have a spot to put that other section so it doesn't mean that we have more students we just have maybe more who want to take that particular class but we don't have the flexibility to put those kids in another space um additionally and this was something that we ran into a few years ago we had a a pipe burst in a a radiator um over the weekend and it kind of out two of our classrooms and it really compromised our ability to be flexible and we had to end up running classes in a conference room and one in our Chapel uh while those classrooms um were fixed due to that flooding so it just puts us in a position of lacking flexibility um and it's really not what's best for kind of teaching and learning experiences um especially these grade levels just two questions um you mentioned there were 15 student parking spaces do you know how many students Drive about 65 students Drive give or take it's uh our our policy states that our seniors are are drivers and and uh that class you know the number of seniors we have fluctuates a bit um but generally 65 to 70 is our our graduating class and um you would mention that using I think it's 72 Prospect now would become the administrative office of building so to speak so the administrative offices that are currently I believe it's is it Conley Hall so we have administrative offices in several buildings um M Hall is um at 76 Prospect Street so we would potentially um maybe have some folks move there but also some folks on the primary part of Campus could move to 72 which would then give us a little more of that breeding That Elbow Room on right so like today I went to the main building on on um Blackburn the old so the stone building isall the brick building is Connelly Hall okay and then the houses on the um corner of prospect are M and current 72 um but it used to be called Grace so the Grace Grace Hall is where administrative administrative offices are can't speak where the administrative offices are currently located like your office my office is yes so would you move to the new building I would not uh but we we might have our enrollment uh management team who was also in brace Hall with me they might move there which would then give us some some space into that building but we haven't we haven't figured out exactly and then those empty spaces will become what so a couple of different things so we could put a faculty room in that space um we're also seeking to put a joint faculty room for our upper and lower school in the in the lower Conelly Edition so that we have a space that's for all um but when you walk into Grace Hall my office is immediately on the left my assistant's office is ahead and on the um I'm sorry I'm on the right she's up ahead on the left uh we could move her office this is just an example next to mine um and then that office could become a smaller conference room we right now have one conference room on the part of Campus um which is challenging if we have a leadership team meeting or a board meeting um and then another group wants to meet we don't really have a space for thank you Tom yeah a couple questions about parking um you mentioned obviously there are more students who drive then who have parking spaces where do they currently park I think I know anecdotally but just for for the record uh they Park on wared road on Ashton Road and black place okay and how many spaces of the new spaces behind me I guess you mentioned two locations for new spaces and maybe said this and I didn't hear it are they all designated for student parking or or how many no they would not be so we don't have enough parking to accommodate all of our employees and and all of our students so we have employees who are parking off site and we have students for a parking off site so bringing uh if we were to put the parking behind M Hall at 76 that would very likely become the parking for the people who work in that building so that would be for adult um we may be able to add you know a student spot here or there but generally we' be looking to bring our employees onto the campus um and then have the student parking Satisfied by the parking spots that are already designated for them on campus plus the ones that they are utilizing off and between the two new parking locations how many total spots was it I think was 30 something or uh additional yeah you get my Che sheet out I I believe it's 21 the net increase net increase so there' be 21 CS presumably off the street parking correct um I think that's all I had thank you you had mentioned the 2008 um conditions yes can you expand on the non-compliance that one Clause yes so in that uh in reviewing that application one of the conditions was so LED Road extends from Prospect to Ashland so the condition stated that the first 16 spots from Ashland back should not have parking in them uh Sor I just want should not have student parking student parking sorry student parking um so in reviewing that um you had us assess kind of where we stood with that and we are not compliance there have been people parking not always all the way but not 16 back um and I think that happened over time to be honest as that used to be a spot where buses would sit so they weren't idling on the in front of the you know houses in the other areas so they would park there waiting for afternoon pickup um we don't really have bus bu we used to so that need isn't there anymore and I think just over time people just started parking in those spots um and I we recently became aware of that looking over all of these um all these past applications and resolutions and wanted to be forthcoming with that was one area that we've not been compliance with with the absorption of 72 Prospect all that parking happens basically parallel to your property correct right from Black to ashin prospect to Ash Pro Prospect to Ash yes yes thank you I just had one more question about the parking on Ashlin just because I know that that that is a spot where you're competing with braon school for pickup and drop off and everything are any of those spots do they have time limits on them I don't actually remember on Ashlin right there by the no right like okay so it's not that doesn't need to be like a special condition either for allowing parking okay I have a question about parking you mentioned that there's like 65 to 75 students that drive the seniors what happens if a Junior wants to drive I mean there so I can tell you what it says in our handbook hang on let me pull that up we allow Juniors to request to drive to campus after May 1st because our seniors um go on a what we call a Capstone project for the month of May so we really we try through our policy to kind ofate too many student drivers um on occasion there are uh might be a hardship in a particular family we do draw from about 68 different towns uh so occasionally we entertain that an exception for a student but generally we try to keep it with the uh with the seniors so how would you know if a junior drove and parked on ash we wouldn't necessarily but we do pay kind of close attention and we'd probably hear it honestly from the seniors any other questions questions great um let me goe probably shouldn't ask this one but I will anyway um you've got a lot of issues here has there been within your board within your Administration thoughts of maybe this isn't the right location and perhaps should we be looking as other schools have done you that that hasn't come up we really we love this town and we love where we are um and especially now in our 100th year and honestly having the ones come back who have been part of our community for a very long time and generations of families who have sent their children to the school um that hasn't come up as something that that I think would be something the school would want to do we love kind of where we are okay all right so we will now open up to questions from the public questions only so has a qu question for this witness please come up state your name spell your last name and give us your address W okay so just couple questions so what's your address sir oh sure 45 black thank you so much um you mentioned not increase enrollment is there anything preventing you from increased enrollment I Ro um someone on Facebook group mentioned that is CA by the city enrollment is that true not that I'm not aware of a cap by the city um no we enrollment it fluctuates over time but generally we like to stay within a range that um kind of feels right for how our program works because my concern is a traffic I know now you don't want to increase sir questions only okay sorry okay another question is s to prospect is it currently paying property taxes I believe so so it gets incorporated into the main lot is it still going to pay property taxes I would have to defer to to Hillary on that um I don't know the answer at this time so I'm Waring if this ready question thank thank you yes thank you have the opportunity to ask questions specialist yes S I have one question following up on that what is current enrollment and you said fluctuate so what's the r yes so our current enrollment is 52 um we generally fluctuate between 500 560 um if we were to to to go up it wouldn't be with driving students um it's usually in kind of some of the lower grade levels where we have more enr thank you so when you did the previous um applications um and there was there were sort of conditions right set and those were also based on a student population like at the time of the last application do you know how many students you had I don't know that off hand um but we have done an analysis I think over the last Dozen Years um and I think kind of a 60 student swing was within that range what just how many um members do you have on staff I believe we have that 136 136 136 and that's full in and that fluctuates um as we had submitted to the board between 130 and 140 additional questions from the audience sure say that or come up no you can come up state your name spell your last name and give us your address please my name is Isabelle Rogers my last name r o gs and I live at 92 Prospect Street thank you I'm sorry I missed the current enrollment 502 502 so you guys are on the very low end you said the swing will be in your app it be between 500 and 560 correct so that could be a large swing up um than the current what we're dealing with now um question for you you mentioned that the current lights or your your the lighting system for the parking lot would be on a timer from sunrise to sunset currently your lights on the parking lot are not on that timer they go surpass are they on this will be from Sunset to Sunrise so if there's light during the dark time sun okay so it will never turn off at night it's just going to be a constant flow on night some of them some of the lights on campus yes and that's existing right right that's existing and for the proposed parking lot at that I think would be answered by the engineer okay great testifies perfect um and then you mentioned that the the goal is to keep 72 and 76 intact as there um to keep the residential looking field but adding a parking lot directly behind the historical and view of everything do you think that is also in a look in field of residential we would do everything we could to maintain the Integrity of um house the property the neighborhood it's we really love and respect where we are and wouldn't want to do anything that compromis the aesthetic for ourselves or for our neighbors so we would be working with our engineers and Landscape Architects to do everything we could to maintain that aesthetic and make it as pleasing as possible we'll also try to mitigate some of the parking challenges okay come back up and ask the lighting thank you Dix Ellen Becker Ellen Becker e l n b c k e r92 Prospect you mentioned there's a pilot program earlier that went with the parking yes and that that Hy Dory as you said and that was for for which spots those spots it was behind uh 76 but not the 19 was not piloted correct it was the spot that we were proposing is the spot where it was piloted how was that how was that were Lin chocked out like likeing out a ball ball field 19 spots piloted behind 72 we actually were able to Pilot more than 19 and our security team was instrumental in helping the traffic flow with our employees so we did it a few times last year when there was a a change in the the parking uh around our campus there have been some alterations to um there were some no parking signs that put had been put up and it caused a bit of a situation for some of our employees who typically parked in those spots uh so we asked and got permission to have um to kind of go driveway of 76 and park in the back there um mostly along the back perimeter and the side perimeter and our security guards helped manage that to make sure that it was safe um and efficient so it was it 19 spots were occupied in this exact area as part of the pilot and you curb cuted them out onto black we did not do the curb cut so circulation as was not the pilot program did not circulate out on to Blackburn that's correct circulated back through the property and then out it did not no it only circulated kind of within that property itself so did not go back there was no exit enter as part of the pilot that's correct we were drive around couple whirly whes and then shut it down what we were doing was uh for certain events and certain times we were parking there for the day so we weren't just doing this for kind of a few minutes we parked there for maybe three or four days in a row based on the situation Happ they entered from where they entered from the driveway on 76 and also exited from the driveway very good so they did not exit off of the black as currently showed as I think we've made that pretty clear correct we were not piloting the exit we were piloting the number of spots that could fit in that spot sir also keep in mind that they're going to have an expert witness testify about the specifics of parking thank you hello good evening Serge mura 51 Blackburn Road um does o currently offer Traffic Control in the morning afternoon departures or special events we do with our own security guard but not on the main streets of summit if that makes sense we and our security guards are not permitted to um direct traffic from the streets of suit there pered to direct traffic within the conf of our and we have a robust security team that does that internally with this new flow is the intention to offer traff control I don't street so it it is not because I do not think it's an option it's something that we have looked into and there wasn't the capacity for that thank you thank you any other questions for this witness seeing none your next witness um Ralph Rosenberg Mr Rosenberg can we swear youor ren do you swear from the testimony you're have to give it's the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do thank you can can I just ask you about your uh qualification please yes I'm a licensed architect in City New Jersey as well as a licensed planner since 1988 I testified in front of many boards including City we will welcome Mr Rosen please begin um can you just tell the board what steps you took to to prepare yourself for your testimony this evening yes enk has been um on campus I think we're approaching our fifth year on campus so in those five years walked to campus met with everybody the administrators faculty um security guards and we come to know the site we come to know the buildings we come to know Summit and I think we every box as far as diligence to get to know the school and campus as much as uh um and did you review the um administrative reviews and the ordinance and confer with yes I have okay great um did you prepare plans for the school that meet and address the objectives laid out by Miss Landis and her testimony yes Ma and can you go through those plans um which are incorporated into a slideshow presentation which I would ask be marked um exhibit A1 yes with the board and describe what is existing and what is proposed yes success thank goodness good feel sure I can hand them out while you start these are printed versions of what we're seeing on screen yes what what we've done is we've um taken all of the previous exhibits that we've submitted for review and sort of reshuffled the deck a little bit with some new exibit to tell a better story this application so as I go through it we're going to talk about um some of the variance definition and some of the Varan help make the whole l thank you start y please um like we said earlier it's you know it's been I think it's been four or five years and you know we've got to know the site the Topography is a challenge like previously mentioned and this first is really a composite of basically everything and it talks about a lot of lot of conditions at hand one it talks about existing condition there are four academic build site can ask a question should we be marking this as A1 or it is yes yes it is thank you so there four existing AC buildings on S is calledo Hall which is the gynasium Athletic Facility on the bottom of the page lower left I'm sorry is Bon that is the early low school right in the middle of the campus is the larger of the four buildings it's called Conelly Hall there are two additions proposed on Hall and to the far right center of the campus is GRA Hall that's the old mansion on the property to the far right is the 76th house and 7 76 Prospect and 72 prospect on the far right on Prospect Street along the back parallel to laed road is the large playing field and sports as well now what the slide represents also is everything in Orange on the new building addition proposed now we're proposing a variance for that building coverage of and what that means is we're allow 15% site coverage for building Footprints we're at 16% and that's relevant with this diagram because um that extra 1% is about 4600 square feet and we tried every which way possible to reduce all of this arms down by 4600 squ fet to take the variance of the table but the compromises to all of those programs like misl was too much of a deficiency asked for the school after all these years of planning and programming for the future academic needs so again even if we were able to reduce the orange by 4600 square feet we would still have a lot covered Varian and we still have the F Varian so we re-evaluated all that and kept it on the table today before you tonight asking for that 16% so with all of that said and done building Footprints are the building Footprints by default we have existing Flor area ratios that exist in nonperformance that just gets a little bit larger and the lock cover which is Paving parking roofs buildings that also becomes a little bit longer a little larger than existing but it still is nonconform so that's the big picture of those two variants for um building coverage F and lot area coverage as we proceed through like was previously mentioned um Conelly Hall is is the biggest of the two academic Building C to the hall of represents two separate buildings the upper part of con upper con and the lower part of larg of is the big and unfortunately the top part of Cony does not um have access to the lower part of con accessible Ada way so now we have two elevators plan for Connelly to have the upper part of Connelly accessible independent from the lower part of con so what all that means is um there's two elevated CES proposed with upper con and lower of the three elevated programs for the entire campus what this plan represents is a lower level which is halfway in the ground which is a Innovation lab now the whole school campus between school has this new la which is the make students can explore three dimensional thinking model and Crea that has full access to an elevated C which is directly parallel across the parking aisle to the font of insura so now the building has access to the three levels proposed with a ramp and two new fire skes on the first level we're ping the first level which is the addition to the cafeteria the multi-purpose room so we can see from this diagram I hope you can see from this diagram it's kind of small so the cafeteria the dining component gets expanded into student Commons to the left is the wellness component of the campus which is student mental health and wellness diversity Equity um inclusion Etc as well as campus counseling as well and the need for Conelly um I guess throughout the campus is the lack of restroom course and two of those are proposed as well this low con Edition on the top part of con the third level but really is um not the third floor but the third level of those five general classroom additions those five general classroom editions allows the existing program spaces to really repurpose as Mrs L pointed out those extra non non traditional teaching environments all of those programs to make that efficiency um that was talked about to be 75% not not the 100% free up some of those needed programs um for o on the top floor again we have a boof plan that roof really is important because that gives us uh the pitch roof character that we're proposing to break up thisat roof massing of these to make them more residential a From Grace Hall as well as giv me that rooftop screening device for the rooftop now this picture is important because this is the existing condition of the cor of conal low eall which is again a brick building thaton large window penetrations and it's directly south of GRA which is se you know to the right side of the rayall really is the Genesis of all the architectural decisions that we've made you can see the stone vineer you see the detail and you see the the simulated sleep high pitch roofs and see this narrow slot vertical Windows combined with horizont window so all of those elements from graa gave us Clues to really make the additions much more coherent with the existing canas and we did a quick sketch of the low eon that's what's on the screen now so the TW story building but it comes out of the ground a half a story high just like a simple gra and a lineing of Flor elevations um so we have two stories on top of the stone base the same stone that we're going to find onall it's capiz scul man roof which screens the mechanical unit from B mature and further out toward Ash we think the context of this Edition really softens that that the existing Cony Hall to the to the campus and all that means in in the elevation diagrams that we submitted for review are shown here in this so all that back story represent back in June the next larg is Project hold sorry I'm just gonna interrupt you for one second can you just um explain to the board what are the variances needed for this lower Conelly addition um I'm sorry this a good point me go back that's an important what's what's highlighted in red on the top part of this St there two side yard setbacks and one existing noncompliant setb exists at um 30 28t to the side and we can see that from sort of this little jted out corner of building top middle that's an ex we're proposing to extend our kitchen services to go a little bit further into that 50 ft to 34t I believe 34.2 34.2 encroaching like that 50 but we're not encroaching near enough the existing nonperformance that exting so it is one of the variances but the detriment is not as bad as existing only one that um and what is the square footage of the area in that BL in in the area of the setback just in the area of the setback I believe it was 320 me to the outside of that one story a little bit deep into that but not as deep as the existing and there is um mature screening on the rear in the rear yards of the properties that are adjacent that's heavily landscaped someways surrounded by sh and trees and then can you just explain the um the height variances for lower Connelly um I don't believe it's a high so um from the average grade it's 44.4 feet and for the high low it's 48.6 feet from the average grade for low eony it's um see the definition of height is taken from an average grade and the average grade on this diagram almost comes up to the top of that second floor window so sorry so the height variance is a result of the average vage come to the middle of the rear elevation that measures itself to the top of the ridge of that man so the reality is that it is high as point of average grade but in reality it comes in less than the required 35 ft so the average grade reference line to all of con and as well to TI when I get the ti is an abstract reference point which is below because the slight SL takes into account the aage from the high to the low and in the middle is the point of refence so it still is a twostory building it's not a three story building because it does not come out of the ground more than six feet 50% ofet of so it's a little but but you would say the topography in this area um and matching it up with the existing building um create a a hardship in meeting the height requirements correct and and including the architectural details to make sure it has a residential field um and the fact that it is located interior to the site it's correct it's located interior site again the point of reference the top third level if we can see from this diagram we eliminated most of the brick massing of this building really stop at the level to and you see from reference behind this man you can see the existing forms of conall so from Ashland beyond the corn line and from bentur Beyond The Corn line in nide there's another story of an existing Cony behind that that rises up another story higher which is the campan the center perfect the whole Topography of this hill complex equation it's always two story building coming out different points of measurement right thank you um if you want to go to Tisdale now sorry to interrupt can I ask a question before we go sure so you're telling me that the new addition is not higher than County hall or it is the new addition is not taller than the existing existing with the camp the center is taller than I can't read that that's the ex well I think the the part of the confusion is you're only referring to lower Connelly hall right now not the upper and because one it's five levels on sheet A10 so it's kind of hard because it's going to be one building so the reference point of just lower Connelly Hall is confusing so it's because it's you know the perspective that you're looking at it from and then when you have to again measure around you have to because it's all one building you measure around the entire building so you know it's it's a little bit more complicated than I I went back to this one because this this could from the perspective of the low field one ofur you could see the building in the background Mr Rosenberg why don't you go to A3 and then just point out to the board um that line in the elevation in the background I'm sorry yes there you go you could just show point out there you go perfect yeah this this top there you go can you see the mouse yes yes can I can't see the mouse on my monitor but you can see the mouse on the screen even if you want to walk over point it out I'm sorry that Top Line parallel to the top border is the corn line of the existing Camping Center of con Hall one building back that's still part of the same Mega structure we call and then that little section with the vertical Windows the long vertical Windows that's currently lower Conley hall or is that the addition this is the addition of low economy Hall no but's asking the the windows those long vertical Windows those are existing those are existing right those are existing right so that's that is currently that is there on site right now yes I'm sorry all right now I'm getting confused but what we're looking at here upper image that's facing bonov ventur Hall yes yes correct line okay we toone out is proposition that's upper con so that very that very faded gray in the background that's existing building and that double line on double triple line on top there that's the top of the existing building that's the top of at the top of the hill yes got it sorry the second largest which is gymnastic as um currently what's found in white is the existing gymnasium which has necessary locker rooms restrooms Lobby open no elevator um Etc we're proposed to sandwich this building what was earlier discussed as a need for secondary multi-purpose athle venue uh done for the lower school but also just for a general Flex bace you know for the whole campus to share this is a proposal that talks about a small multi-purpose room that does um is proposed to be built on the south of the existing is Hall and next to the propos another additional fitness center to the north of this addition which is sort of sandwich of the existing entrance facing conell is a new elevator Tower stair Tower and some faculty offices Etc so now this building would have accessibility to get to the second level which currently it does not it will have a secondary multipurpose athletic room for the lowest group Domin and inside that one venue for the lowest grou closing a small up stage for those performances and multiuse for this building on the second floor there was some general classrooms we proposing more offices again that elevator Rises up Fire Rises up and then stage space as well R up in the middle of finalizing the renovation program of this building all inside the existing envelope the two new additions which are proposed in would be exactly as describ mulp Fitness Center elev St the existing context of his doll as seen mostly from ashin um it's a brip building it has a lot of accent Stripes it's a flat roof building with a small little Ridge down Center which exent towards the entrance and and Lobby um from Ashland um it has large windows it's articulated inic wood in the traditional con it's a little um out of keeping with what we see on Grace Hall but at the same time we have respect for it so this reference is uh a sketch that proposes the bump out of the existing tis doll which now is a flaque building and we simply taking the pediment the peak and the addition to the right and simulate what's exist and then can you just point to the board where the addition is on this yeah so if I is theat and we proposing this little bump out is really cop the existing conditions and just pushing forward the existing the gri details and cores um really make it less of a statement and at the end of the day it look like what always have that elev Tower as around the back um it is a flat roof building so we are taking you know some of the freedom of what's already existing on the back of his doll and really to give ason something much more residential put a little pman tower on top of the stage soften off this whole corner of as as again the same bricks the same detailing that's currently existing going to continue that so is this visible off of Ashlin it is this is view this is the view this view is from Ash okay but everything that's peaked and forward is new conditions but it's all matching EX exist is there a view from Manor Hill Road this is kind I mean the side would be what Manor Hill would see but there is you know landscaping and the landscape architect will describe the proposed Landscaping in that area so this this almost is a view from manold but uh story for this Photograph slide is all the existing wall design is copied and just rebuilt further south of of the building so the details are just just existing of rebuilt and move forward and can you just go through the variances um for this part of the project yes um this is one of those highight variances U again referencing the average grade that's asking for a height VAR of an existing condition the existing Peak on TI doll is at 399 believe 37.4 ft that's an existing height reference from average grade and all we're doing is simply taking that pediment moving it North and keeping the Bridge height the way it is but unfortunately on performing is ask for the variance to keep it and re that's the Vari on goall at the same time it's been reference from the environmental commission to every south facing roof try to entertain solar panels we have no south facing slop roofs but the conversation is continuing to a flat solar panel on top of more information need that conversation is still alive well we need to get further into the process um and I I do believe that there's also a story variance for this because the basement is technically considered a story above grade so even though it looks two stories technically under the ordinance it's three stories so it's just another variance that is being requested do you have a picture of the current um North Side the side that faces Conley Hall I don't see that in here I see I guess I've taken Liberty because from this slide uh just to see Slide the existing con hole is almost this view but imagine this architecture has been FL right so taking that corner pediment and just pulled it extruded out of the mass and called it an addition so if that verbal description helps that's that's the existing TI all it's it's it's just a flat going to articulate it and make it a little more user friendly perect yep upper con we're going yep we're going there now again this this is the last slide and then uh we're going to end with upper con Conn again is still part of conell NE up to low accessible we need to add a secondary to as I previously described and that's what's represented here if you come off of Blackburn to the building to the right you'll see this covered um sort of this elevated concrete Terrace that's where the new elevator Lobby will be and above that we're elevating a second floor with stone columns again because directly east of Grace Hall so this diag represents program small elevat Tower elevator Lobby on the lower level with the line are small very resp fun to class again to free up some of those traditional classroom spaces to be repurposed for that flexible multi-purpose use that the school desperately needs to be that's um as a little sketch we did a little photo monage um as you come off with black con is to the right and refence it as to the left down to uh the paring lot Andross from and this is what the proposed addition will look like uh to the right you'll see uh new windows we've kept all of the large existing window bacular Inta all the have the same large windows but we've added this sort of peak out again very similar to the low eom to simulate the resal to break up as much as possible that massive roof expansion are cing the cores bringing in the stone bringing in the simul Slate from Grace Hall making the whole much more um responsive to it to its neighbors and this project also needs um a story variance and height variance again because of the topography because the um there's a story above grade that's calculated even though when you look at it it only looks like two stories yes two stories again because of the average grade reference and theum represents the point of referencing the full St so from that measuring point we are asking for aight again it's the high VAR is still less than existing Heights of conell so it's l of semantics and definitions of how how it presents to you tonight this diagram I think clearly represents that reference line deep deep in dir I'm measur to the r to give you that that height 529 52.9 clearly not can I ask a question just for REM clarification so on the commy additions the upper you're building two stores yes and it's less the roof line is less than the existing structure that's there that you're adding it to correct it's less than the existing as the building grows down the hill the building becomes taller just bear with me on the lower portion you're building three stories but really one is a basement correct and that again the roof line that you're proposing is still below the existing structure correct thank thank you is that floor part of the overall square footage that you referenced where you're 400 to 600 square feet over for that 16% that would go towards floor area ratio okay that the one that's below it's not for building coverage well technically it is because you're still adding that piece right that piece yes bumping out Beyond exist exactly yes thank you and then I have one other question how many existing classrooms are there and how many are you net adding we're adding net new traditional classrooms of five but with that five net that means we allowed to repurpose other smaller classrooms to be multipurpose nontraditional teaching total five total new if you need to look it up and get back to us that's just a question I'd like to answer perfect brand new old classrooms free up other the classrooms we repurpose and R and and right now how many stories is Connelly as it stands it's it looks like it's a tough question because it's it's going to be five stories based on topography based on one of the A10 I think it shows it as five stories so what technically it's same it's is it it's you did that diagram and it wasn't for us put this out there it is five levels from the lowest point to the highest point existing existing so we no not sorry for existing the low invation L is the fifth floor which is underground so existing the four levels calling them levels inside Conelly the lowest level of the Innovation lab on Lower conell is a new Flor plate so would be turning four into do any of the floor plates on con match the elevation of lower Conelly including the proposed Edition no no the cut Downs upstairs through so it's a little so they're not continuous through one the really disrupts disrupts the okay this this new looking at the front elevation on A5 yes what is the purpose of that just just visual is it going to be Utilities in there storage what's on upper Conn yes the top floor is all ump the peak roof the roofa the peak roof is an aesthetic device to screen the mechanical unit behind it it's probably larger than I need but it's a device a device where I can kind of take all of the flat you know the cony building this is very flat kind of loosen it up a little bit so it has some relationship to Grace Hall directly to the to the neighbor and gives the residents and the users of the building sort of a pleasant way of having a Gateway bookend between the beautiful Grace SK and but the peak doesn't turn the corner therefore screen from screen black it's just floating on top of that can you view those mechanical units from Blackburn no and I just want to point out I believe the design guidelines also frown upon flat roofs so trying to eliminate or disguise as many of them as possible I'm just think such a high um if if it's a recommendation to maybe take it down a little bit well it's you're right on the right on the line because there's always a conversation about how tall is tall how low is low Grace Hall is you know up there so so what your proposing the design aesthetic is to mirror that of the pitch for Grace yes thank you uh how about we move on to signage which is always fun and exciting signage uh let's start the easy one F Hall we proposing to relocate those pin letters on F Hall and just move them up by moving them up that's a variance it exceeds the height that the sign is allowed to appear as well as the existing sign is larger than 8 sareet so by default the sign exists as an existing nonform relocating it but higher than the zon allows and that's on upper Conelly it's an existing um small I think of a 6 in Le of black on a white Colonial porch beam Corners once we make that building or brick that that sign is not going to do so we're asking that sign to be a 10 inch letter um to be pin lit pin mounted and that size obviously is going to be larger than the 8T as well but again because of the block on top can be very subtle sign almost nondetectable from black it's almost as sign as the US already the big sign application we're asking for is low eony low Cony is internal it's not visible from it's not visible from black ored or from and it is meant really to self advertise for the people already on the campus he's calling for a press the logo of words the holy Child also another sign is which is another so the big ass is Con so internal upper con you think it's warranted to ask for something a little bit bigger less visible what's existing then existing not performing simply raing it upes um and are any of these signs illuminated no signs um and would you say they're all consistent with existing site signage and needed for ease and identification yes perfect um and then um in terms of the coverage variances um is it your opinion that it would be difficult to perceive the additional mass or coverages of the buildings from any one spot on the campus um due to the fact that there's kind of an upper and lower campus yes that's that's a good point um it was mentioned earlier and I should have reemphasized that no part of this campus um you'll be able to detect all of the individual additions you stand low Cony you can't see tiso you can't see upper Conelly seeing that up con you can't see low Conn or his though so the spreading out of of this ask I think is warranted to you know take advantage of the Privacy that this campus has by default so the Navy won't see it inside the campus outside of the campus spread out and well hidden mass and the topography obviously creates a challenge um and some of these additions are tucked behind other buildings that are on site um they will be shielded by proposed Landscaping yes um and they were thoughtfully designed so they blend in better with a more residential feel and consistent with the design guidelines and Summit yes thank you can we go back to the signage for a moment yes you said uh what's exist zoning allows out eight square feet and you're going for 10 8 sare feet is what I read from Z right so the the nominal difference between eight and 10 why would you what's the need for that what's the justification for that well I think when we proposed the tent it was conversation had about scale and appropriateness for a simple black letter that has less contrast on a brick wall than a black letter on a white wall so it was simply an aesthetic judgment to work better was just an aesthetic makes the sign more easily visual visual okay and then the other one I think it was Tisdale uh you said the you're raising it currently exists on right above the first door right above the header of the door we're raising up to the second level so it's going that higher than 12 I think it allows 12 without go much higher than the 12 so the height mounting is a variance as well as repeating the existing and B on the new structure You're Building you really couldn't reduce it to that 12T um no we're proposing a canopy um better serve with something higher thank you um and then just for the record 72 Prospect Street can you just um confirm that that will remain as is um with the residential look and feel that it is today and there's no changes proposed to the exterior of that property corre um I think you've already described the materials and the colors for the proposed um improvements um is there any building lighting that's being proposed we have um the only building lighting that we are talking about of exit lighting by code so every exit door entrance door would have um small light under the canop or next to not in AED by code that's we dealing with right um and in terms of the administrative comments I believe you addressed uh the solar panels from the uh environmental commission um did you review the construction officials comments and does the applicant agree to comply with them as a condition of approval yes perfect I don't have any other questions thank you questions from our board experts for this witness I do not have anything for this witness I guess I have one Mr chairman um would it be accurate talking about signage would it be accurate to describe the proposed signage as wayf finding signage on site as opposed to what a typical business might have for sign correct it because it it outlines which building you know the names of each building so it helps identify each building I think it's a very good argument to call it a wayf finding project but at the same time it was done for more PRI of place so if if you go down the path of part of place part of buildings it is it is a way find I'm not sure there's your I'm not sure those two concepts are in Conflict right I agree and so these signs just to go on that wayfinding thing these signs aren't designed to draw attention to the site from outside the site they will not be seen outside the site I think that's uh the only question I had Mr chairman great thanks any additional questions for this witness from the board I just have a couple um sorry about um fire suppression old buildings are sprinklered um all the new additions will be sprinkler there are some existing spaces that are not sprinklered um everything new will be sprinkled and it will the connections be on the building remote close to the street has that been looked at I don't whatever whatever local state requirements are that's um that just makes me wonder if you're putting in sprink let's say in lower and upper Connelly have you explored the possibility of putting sprinklers in the rest of the building once you're doing this kind of in giant infrastructure project I mean day one that was day one getting the building up to code first and then expanding footprint second so it's a again it's a conversation that's not resolv okay to sprinkle building there some Logistics and so many moving pots currently with this proposal it's still a live conversation I think it will happen when it happens we don't know it is we recognize it it is needed and then one more question about the signage so um you know I see one of them is like 11.4 square feet 11.25 sare ft would you and when when looking at the signage given the size of the buildings right sometimes you you look at perspective would you say that the size and the location like the height is in keeping sort of the scale of the building right where if you made the sign smaller it might be just lost in a building that size is I mean that part of the reason for the choice and size I'll say yes you're exactly right on because we measure the after we visually place it so after we visually are happy with the look then we measure it so we don't the athetic comes first the measurement comes second and we found ourselves way we can't do we're here tonight any additional questions I have a question about the signage yeah I was saying it's it's basically so that you know which building you're at so the lower Conelly Hall the sign on Lower con Hall says open but doesn't say Conelly Hall like how do you know that that's Conelly Hall if you're coming from say the ashin area because the upper Conelly says Conelly Hall Tisdale says Tisdale Hall but then lower con says open allall well upper con Hall is a point of entry for the campus and the school for parents visitors that's and that's also the the theater building the campign theater center inside con tell that was important that sort of point of entry into the campus that was important Connelly um is more of a you're already in the building and that parking lot is used as a secondary playground so again it's a brigher place for to celebrate the building not not so much for people outside of the campus so it's sort of I think that most people know it's one building so it just has the one sign on the upper Connelly and there's no entry facing that parking lot SL playround corre no you have to come in as straight you make a right and you know in all of the size that were asking for below economy we're not going to K us that weever be approved up e because it is it is a lot so keeping it a little aggressive but appropriate low eony for internal and those signs are blocked by bonaventura right so you want to see them from the street other questions I do one second floor over the proposed I guess it's flexible phal room the multi the multi-purpose right so on the proposed second floor there's a squared in area at the lower B what is that that's the top of the stage the stage is a is a high volume that's like the precum that's that's a open all the way up open all the way up it's you knowen volume perfect okay I think we're done with board questions we will now open it up to the public remember questions only for this witness same rules is first time please state your name spell your last name and give your address uh my name is Eric nicely e r i n i c l y I live at 56 blackb Road um my question is if putting these structures in place have you looked at the size of the footings and whether or not you need to drill or blast to be able to get the supports in in that area because we are all on bedrock sh a little bit when that happens or have you got that we have not done that okay thank you thank you please Brad olon 64 Black Road um I have two questions um first do you mind bringing up the first um overall maap that you had yeah yeah so um it looks like with respect to most of the additions or at least one and three as you have labeled there you have them on sort of the interior of the property um with respect to tisdel Hall you're going out closer to neighbors have you considered options to locate that on the interior of um the property so you don't impact Neighbors on Manor Hill and yes we did um but the burden of defish and parking quickly took that off the table try to keep everything as much as possible thatc with you still have green space within um the the interior of your property that you could consider existing is right hereo to the north here uh I could propose a number of different things I don't think that's what you want me to do with my Q&A I'm just suggesting that it it doesn't I'm not okay we did look at it it proved not to be viable okay I I think also the nature of the space needs to relate to the other functions that are in Tisdale that's why it was located or attached to that building how much of the Tisdale addition adds to your lock coverage variance lock coverage VAR that Delta is like 27,000 so is not reason all of the buildings all of the floors all of what contribution does t make to that and there will be um testimony about landscape screening that's going along that perimeter by the tisel addition correct yes the um I just have a question as background when I read the 1991 um resolution for the original build of tisdall it referenced an R15 of 35% lock coverage and they I think 41% um why is now the V 40% that is the conditional use standard in the ordinance has it changed or it could could it could have changed since 1991 okay yes um okay second question and and just to be clear the standard for the r-15 zone and conditional uses are different a school is a conditional use so it has to meet different standards than what another property would have to meet in the R15 Zone my property at 64 Blackburn needs to meet because it's residential right school is a conditional right yeah so it's um second question question uh line of questioning is along the um parking so on lot five or number five number five number five um you're adding parking to I think 76 Prospect I think that's for okay I'll sa that perfect thank you thank you any other questions from the public for this Witness hello my name is i l question for you you mentioned many times that you can't see this you can't see that when you're standing on Blackburn Road or Ashlin road yet I would venture to say everybody who's got a home here who is concerned about Oak do not on the road even if you're on the opposite side of Blackburn road the second floor do you have a question yes my question is have you used a drone or anything else to actually get a visual what the neighbors will see out their Windows okay um and mine is just a second um with regards to the drilling you haven't done anything with regards to the drilling that they're going to go down into the ground and we sit on Boulders we haven't done any kind of okay thank you can I follow up with that question about the um the sub structure is uh when some of the other buildings like Tisdale Hall were built what did you encounter in those areas I mean you must have information on that from th that those that construction well we have we have uh existing conditioned Rock elevations and water we have not designed the Foundation Systems yet but you have a Geotech report we have a Geotech report we don't have any foundation designs when was fale built in the mid 7s what was the last structure to be built on the campus and when that was the last one yes okay 90s was 9191 it is getting a little late in the night 9s thanks thank you Mr Rosenberg thank you Hillary I'm gonna propose a five minute break sure and then hopefully get through one more witness tonight sounds good it'll be the civil engineer great perfect thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e if everyone could return to their seats please almost a five minute break for a five minute break we have uh returned from our break Hillary are you introducing a new exhibit um yes there's going to be a rendered site plan which would be A2 great thank you your next witness please okay Dan Chanel please your name the please uh good evening chairman members of the board my name is Daniel chanal last name is s n l I am a principal of the firm Dynamic engineering located at 245 Main Street Chester New Jersey ra you're going You're about to give the trure I do just please your qualifications absolutely I am a graduate of the New Jersey Institute of Technology where I've earned a Bachelor's of Science in civil engineering um I have over a decade of uh experience in preparation of various uh commercial residential and Industrial site plans uh throughout the region I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey as well as several other states where my license is valid and good standing and I've testified uh well over 200 times before various uh boards included this board uh that I'm in front of tonight we will I appreciate it thank you some technical difficulties so we might have to if you want to sit over here no that's right I can I can probably drive at the same time and just while do that can you just explain the steps you took to prepare for your testimony tonight um absolutely um I was essentially tasked along with my staff to evaluate the existing conditions of the site work with the architectural team uh to essentially evaluate the uh the locations of the uh building additions um as well as look at the existing parking configuration uh working with our traffic team uh to essentially incorporate both the building revisions um or additions as well as the existing parking uh issues and uh work to essentially find uh somewhat of a solution to help alleviate some of the uh the problems that exist today um and so recognizing that the site is fully developed with existing buildings parking and other improvements did you prepare civil engineering plans in accordance with the requirements of applicable city ordinances and the municipal land use law I did um and then I would just ask if you could go through those plans for the board uh I would hope to looks like we're still synthetical issues showing sorry just not recognizing yeah we had on the break it wasu that works we steal your computer fickle it's very fickle who else has batter's dead on this way you don't want suggestions think I'm dead we'll just go old school and use some cords of them how many computers does it take to get one exhibit up computer number three computer number three lucky that's for a license we have a backup plan perfect we're back all right so where we left off the uh exhibit that I I have mounted on this board is essentially an aerial exhibit this is sheet two within our site plan set um it is dated uh February 1st 2024 last revised June 18th 2024 and essentially this is just an aerial image of the overall site um the site itself is bounded essentially faded back and shaded a little bit and uh and bounded by the yellow line um I'm sure everyone is very familiar with the area relatively residential in nature uh the site itself is currently made up of two separate Lots as you heard uh this evening the overall campus uh which is lot three is about uh 9.8 acres and then a 72 uh Prospect uh essentially at the very Northeastern corner of the site that makes up about 3/4 of an acre itself so those two existing Lots um that ultim s.6 Acres um the site itself fronts on four separate roadways uh you have Blackburn Avenue that is along uh the western side of or I'm sorry Blackburn road on the western portion of the property that's a two-way undivided roadway uh which is under local jurisdiction right now there's two driveways on that road you have a Ingress only driveway which is located opposite of Blackburn Place essentially that is the main entrance to the upper portion of the school and there is also an egress only driveway uh that's a little bit further north along that U Blackburn Road Frontage that's an exit only driveway uh it's important to note that there is no parking permitted on either side of the road along Blackburn Road uh working in a clockwise direction we have Prospect Street to the very north of the site and that is where 76 uh which is M Hall as well as 72 Prospect front both of those uh existing buildings are essentially residential in nature uh they both have their own driveways uh both full movement um access back out the prospect of our Prospect Street Prospect Street also allows no parking permitted on either side of the street along the the school's Frontage uh working further along in a clockwise direction we have lned road which is uh the uned mov gravel roadway um two-way uh and there's only one existing driveway that's on that that uh that street for this subject site which is a gravel access to that carriage house that's associated um with uh the 72 Prospect um so that access only provides access or that driveway only provides access to those four parking spaces associated with the carriage house and parking is permitted along lned on the western portion of the propert which is is essentially the side that oakn is located on and there's also parking permitted on the Eastern side but essentially only two-hour parking between the hours of 8: AM and 6: PM and then finally we have Ashland uh Road uh which again is also under local jurisdiction um and there's one Ingress only driveway located at the Eastern end of the frontage uh near the intersection of lned then there's also a full movement driveway a little bit further down uh which provides access to that lower portion of the school um parking is permitted along the opposite side of the street from the school Frontage but only up to the uh the crosswalk there's no parking permitted past that crosswalk and uh there's no parking permitted on the Oak Side of the Street so you heard a lot about the existing conditions of the site it's h currently developed with seven existing buildings you have tisdall Hall Connelly hall bonaventura Hall Grace Hall uh M Hall the 72 Prospect the 72 prospects carriage house and then there's also a small shed that's Lo on the site so all those existing buildings as they stand today um makes up about 58,000 Square ft which uh encount for about 12.6% of the entire parcel whereas 15% is permitted for building coverage um there's also paved internal circulation in and parking areas throughout the site uh there's enough delineated parking spaces so marked and strip parking stations for 140 Vehicles currently on the site as it is today um there as you heard earlier there is a trash and essentially receiving area located to the rear of um Conley Hall um which is right up here the essentially the Western corner of the site where the dumpsters are located and some of the receiving op operations take place uh there's concrete and asphalt walkways that connect the various areas of the campus you have the turf Athletic Field along the Eastern property line and directly north of that you have a fenced in paved area containing the three existing tennis courts um it's important to note that that Turf Athletic Field is considered a perious surface uh meaning that water can get through it through it and there is a drain system underneath it that collects that water and uh and conveys it off site uh these existing improvements uh make up about 4.4 Acres of impervious surface coverage which accounts for about 42% coverage of this entire site whereas a maximum of 40% is uh is permitted so there's an existing non-conformity associated with both building coverage and lock coverage as the uh I'm sorry just lock coverage as the site sits today uh the site is very moderately graded uh generally slopes from the Northwest to the southeast and the grade falls about 50 feet across the site so from uh from black Blackburn road down to lned it's about a 50 foot elevation change because of this there's various steep slopes that are defined by the city ordinance um that are Disturbed it's just essentially that the nature of this site because of the developed nature of the site the location of the buildings and how they're connected with one another um there's areas of both per or of paved area and grass area that exceeds the maximum um slope what would be considered a steep slope in the town so essentially whenever you disturb these steep slopes uh it requires a variance because these steep slopes are meant to to be UND undisturbed uh in order to essentially maintain the existing the grain drainage patterns making sure that there's no erosion that takes place on site so we will be seeking a little bit of a variance to disturb some of these steep slope areas which I'll speak on uh shortly um there are existing stormw management uh measures in place as it sit today the majority of the storm water that's generated by both the buildings and the parking area are collected by various inlets and roof leers on the site and most of the storm water is actually discharged to uh ashin road to the uh the city's networks within there there is actually two existing subgrade detention systems that are located on the site uh it does take some of the storm water and detains it and releases at a slower rate um those improvements were putting back in in I believe the early 90s or early 2000s with some other improvements which helped some of the storm water concerns uh back then those are still functioning today um the site is zoned as a uh is within the R15 Zone um where a institutional use is permitted but this is a conditional use and as Hillary had mentioned when you have a conditional use within a Zone there's essentially additional zoning requirements um that are essentially different from a standard use that would be permitted within that zone so when we're working with the conditional use here there's there's standards that essentially exceed or are different from the the standard Zone as a whole uh and when we do not meet one of those conditions it kicks us to the zoning board uh which is why we're before you this evening to uh essentially seek a couple of those variances other than the lot coverage variance I mentioned earlier there is several existing non-conformities on the site uh which include the minimum front rear and sidey yard setbacks maximum Building height uh buffer width uh maximum lock coverage as I mentioned parking space size driveway slope and the location of some uh off Street uh parking I'm just going to to end the striping is end the striping Y correct um so unless there's any condition or questions about the existing conditions of site I'll switch over to my rendering uh and discuss the proposed improvements so this exhibit would be a new exhibit which I will Mark A2 with today's date and what this is is essentially a colorized version of the site plan that was submitted on the have of this application essentially overlaid onto an aerial image itself so uh this is titled site plan rendering and it is dated uh January 9th 2025 again just colorized version of the site plan the orientation changed a little bit uh previously North was to the top of the page now North is to the right hand side of the page we have lned Road at the bottom of the page Blackburn road to the top prospect to the right hand side and ashin further off to the left uh so as I mentioned as part of this uh project there's two main objections objectives essentially one of which is to consolidate Lots two and three lot two is at this very Northeastern corner lot three is the rest of the site so once that's Consolidated uh we'll have one overall lot consisting 10.6 Acres it's important to note that we're not touching lot two that existing home we're not making any changes to lot two as you heard earlier tonight however because we are now consolidating this uh making a part of overall lot three we have um essentially two new technical variances associated with uh the setbacks um so now that we're going to be a part of the uh the school use we now have two front yards associated with this and we will be seeking a variance for uh the setback on lned road which is a technical variance because of of the zone and now consolidating to the same lot um and then the other objective obviously for this evening is uh seeking the approval for the additions to Connelly Hall which is at the top portion of the page centralized portion of the site as well as tis doll Hall which is all the way to the southern end of the site the additions are the darker orange shade and the existing buildings are essentially those uh those pan colors uh the gray throughout the site is parking areas again we have the existing turf field to the Eastern portion of the site and that tennis uh tennis court directly to the north of that um as you heard there's uh four main building uh additions out of throughout the site and as a result of these building additions we will be looking to increase the building coverage to 16% whereas only the 15% is permitted so we're going from that uh 12 and change up to 16% because of these uh new building Riv uh additions um as far as setbacks however we are uh complying with the majority of the bulk standards for tisol Hall uh we do understand that the addition would be essentially on the outside portion of the campus however that building addition does completely comply with the setbacks both the side yard and the front yard uh but we are seeking a setback variance for lower Conelly essentially the little portion of the building that out to the West will be closer to the property line than what permits so that's a new variance however it's important to note that it's not closer to the property line than existing uh building currently is so it's another technical variance just for that addition uh other than that we do have the height variance and a buffer variance that we would be seeking that's associated with our above ground uh storm water basin uh all the way to the South that I will touch on a little bit further uh shortly um additionally as you heard we are proposing some parking improvements uh the main parking Improvement is the surface lot that we're proposing behind 76 Prospect uh this lot will contain 19 new parking spaces uh however we will be losing three parking spaces within that existing lot because of the new driveway that will essentially cut through the existing parking area and then enter uh the new parking field uh behind m m Hall additionally there'll be a new driveway it'll be an exit only that exits out to U Blackburn Road essentially providing another egress uh for those 19 parking spaces and that essentially goes with the flow of the existing um uh uh circulation patterns of the site itself it's one-way circulation in this existing parking area uh so in order to get to this parking area you have to continue to follow that one-way flow of the existing parking area enter that spaces for 19 space uh cars then the only way out would then be back out to Blackburn um but again only 19 parking spaces back there it was essentially tested out uh in in in Prior U this past year uh and it seemed to be working well and it helps alleviate some of the concerns getting some additional cars off of the road uh parking spaces will be uh striped at 8 and 1 half ft wide by 19 ft deep uh which would require a design waiver uh the city requ fire is 9 ft by 18 um however throughout the existing site all of the spaces are 8 1 half by1 19 and what that essentially accomplishes is you're able to get more parking spaces uh you get basically get more bank for your buck since these parking spaces don't turn over often it's not a retail use uh where people are coming in and out U making short trips the width of the space isn't isn't much of a concern uh just allows you to accommodate more vehicles and those cars aren't moving often so once you're you're parked in there um you know you're staying for a long time versus a use where you'd want to be circulating those cars and have a little bit more space Also those spaces will not be hair pined meaning essentially two lines uh making up a single line in between the spaces that's another city requirement and essentially that's just going with the theme of the rest of the campus which was previously approved to allow the eight and a half wide spaces as well as not providing hair thin spaces uh that new egress out onto Blackburn uh Road will be paved it will be lined with Belgian block curb um you know have all the stop signs we did see your board Engineers comment about regrading the road to make sure no storm water is entering the site which we will absolutely comply with and make that happen um as far as parking requirements when we're looking at educational institutions uh the existing site requires 51 parking spaces uh that is based upon the number and type of the classrooms within the school Under proposed conditions we are adding those five classrooms as you heard so that parking requirement would then go up to 64 so technically by code we are compliant with the number of parking spaces that we provide on site with 140 existing uh and only 64 required under proposed conditions um the total parking on the site as it equates there's 120 employee parking spaces 16 student spaces and then four that are essentially designated for parking for visitors once we make these improvements we propose this additional parking lot um on the site as well as reorient uh a couple areas of the site uh which would also include the eight spaces uh behind 72 Prospect we actually end up with 161 parking spaces on the site so it's essentially a uh uh going from 140 to 161 which uh results in I believe gain of what 21 spaces yes um so that essentially removes 21 spaces that are currently used on the street and that brings them onto the campus which helps oliviat some of the parking concerns on the streets surrounding the area and you'll hear a little bit more from our traffic expert on the parking situation as well as the circulation of the site uh other slight improvements we are proposing a single electric vehicle charging space up by tis doll Hall to comply with state standards and providing parking um we're also providing a new handicap accessible space uh that would comply with state requirements uh as you heard we are proposing some new site lighting associated with the new lot uh that site lighting will be designed to essentially match the the lighting that exists on site there'll be six um decorative style LED fixtures um that will be full cut off dark sky compliant um and again match the theme of the existing site we are seeking a little bit of a variance because of light spill over the property line at the uh driveway that's going back out to Blackburn um the city code allows 0.1 foot candle I know that's a a technical term uh but essentially that's a very low level of light we are about SE 7 foot candles at the property line um can we comply we absolutely could however we prefer not to uh just for a safety reason te typically driveways you want to have a little bit more light so if there's anybody walking on the sidewalk uh Vehicles exiting at night time would be able identify somebody walking uh just makes a little bit more of a safer condition however if members of the public or the board are are concerned with that uh if we can make that compliant we definitely um finally these improvements that we're seeking will result in about 18,500 Square F feet of new impervious surface coverage which is about 04 Acres um this would go up by about 4% when we're looking at a coverage as a whole uh to 46% so we're going to 42% surface coverage up to 46 uh to mitigate the increase of storm water generated by the new impervia Surface coverage we are proposing an above ground storm water detention Basin at the uh Southern corner of the site as well as two subsurface uh detention basins which would be comprised of perious pavement meaning that storm water can enter through the pavement itself and be uh held back and release that slower rate which I'll I'll touch on a little bit surely um and then finally with these new improvements we are providing uh a very nice uh robust landscaping design essentially focusing on the areas of the new improvements as well as uh improving the existing buffer along uh lned Road as well as buffering the new parking area and our landscape architect will provide detailed testimony on that um site grading essentially was matched to maintain the existing conditions throughout that site uh as I mentioned earlier because of these new building additions uh and work being done in areas that are already steep since we'll be disturbing these steep slope areas we are essentially seeking a variance um to disturb the steep slope areas I believe uh the square footage is 6,277 square feet precisely of steep slopes that would be uh essentially Disturbed for this construction but the site is going to be designed to make sure we're not causing erosion uh there will be predective measures put in place during construction to make sure that there's not excessive erosion from the deep slope areas and then they'll be fully stabilized uh following the conclusion of construction to make sure that there'll be no issues in the future with h with the rosion so I think granting that variances would be warranted uh with the measures that we would put into place now with the most uh important part that everyone would love to hear about I'm sure is storm water management we are aware that there's concerns uh in the in the area with the existing storm otor conditions especially with the stream that is located east of the site so as I mentioned earlier there is various storm water control measures already on site which collects the storm water some of it is detained um and then released primarily to inlets that are located on ashin road um and then conveyed uh further Downstream under proposed conditions we are implementing three storm water management basins and essentially the intent of those basins is uh to provide storm water quantity quality um measures before the storm water leaves it site self uh this is what's considered a major development when we look at State storm water requirements as well as City storm water requirements what are major development all that means is essentially is whenever we're disturbing more than an acre of land or if we're increasing impervious surface coverage by more than a quarter of an acre uh we are required by state code to essentially meet um that storm water quantity and quality reductions in order to accomplish this we have the one what is considered uh a bio retention Basin essentially a bio retention Basin is a basin with plants in it and what that's going to do it's going to collect storm water that's generated by the tis doll Hall roof essentially the water that lands on the roof is going to be collected by roof leaders and then discharged directly into that Basin as well as uh some of the open space areas uh that are located directly to the west of that Basin will just flow down the hill and essentially get trapped In This Storm water detention Pond uh and it will be essentially detained and at least at a slower rate um what's important to note is since the there's no pavement or parking area proposed up there all that storm water is considered clean anything that a vehicle drives on is considered dirty and we have to treat it for water quality however we are going above and beyond in this case by proposing a bio retention Basin which provides water quality measures as well since there's plantings in there it gives the water essentially opportunity to percolate through the soil and be collected by an under drain before it is discharged off site so that water is cleaned and and right there it's going above and beyond what's required for this area of the site the next Basin is essentially located between lower Connelly and Bon Ventura Hall it is located within the existing parking area between those two buildings what we're proposing there is what's known as a perious pavement Basin um essentially we'll be ripping upart the the asphalt and uh replacing it with uh pavement special pavement that allows water to SE through it and enter a large Stone storage area below that pavement that accomplishes two things as well one you have the water uh quantity reduction there because you're storing the water and you're releasing it slower off site and then the pavement itself essentially acts as a way to clean the water uh before it leaves the site uh since we are uh again since this isn't any new vehicle surface that we're proposing uh we technically don't need to treat for water quality because the building addition that is essentially draining to that Basin again is considered Clean Water by state standards we're again going above and beyond what's required by now we're adding a water of a element of water quality to that existing parking area so that parking area right now is considered dirty water right now we're going to add that Basin allow the water to percolate through the Basin clean that water uh and then release it off site once it as a time at a further time essentially again back down towards Ash and then finally sticking with the same theme the new parking area uh behind 76 will essentially be comprised of the same thing it's going to be pervious pavement that has the ability to collect the storm water that's generated by that new parking area again it will be cleaned by percolating through that that pervious pavement and then discharged at a slower rate you keep hearing me mention rates so yes additional storm water or additional perious area generates higher volume of storm water but when we're looking at storm water management we don't look at volume we look at rates so the way I kind of like to think of it is uh almost like looking at a a big Stadium uh and almost a reverse uh situation of what happens to a stadium during a big sporting event um when everybody wants to leave at the end of the game everyone leaves at the same time it takes a while to get out of your seat kind of work through all the concourses and exit the building essentially that's the same thing as a flooding condition you have the same amount of people in the stadium no matter but you have the same uh but when they are all trying to leave at once it causes a backup and in this case it would be kind of like causing flood in this case when you have no storm water controls that higher volume of water rushes off the site and it causes flooding problems Downstream however going back and looking at the stadium before the game starts everyone kind of goes in slowly over time um get there late so there's no problems kind of getting to your sea that would be the same thing essentially as a propos conditions of a storm water management system you still have the same amount of storm water falling on site and trying to leave however now it's being held back and it's released at a slower rate through our detention system uh which allows the to essentially alleviate Downstream flooding issues by letting water out at a slower Pace than it is under uh essentially proposed conditions with no uh basins whatsoever so we're going above and beyond by providing additional levels of water quality as well as now raining additional water in the existing parking area before he allow allows it to leave the site so under proposed conditions even though we're adding additional impervious surface coverage it does actually help any type of flooding concerns as we're now holding this water back on our site and we're relasing it a lot slower to essentially allow the storm water systems Downstream to catch up uh as we release this water from the site to tou else as far as utilities all these buildings are obviously serviced by existing utilities there will be no major utility upgrades to service these buildings um outside agencies we have already submitted to the uh Union County planning board where we've received our approval and we've also submitted to the somerset Union s Conservation District who essentially looks at the site under construction to make sure we're not uh allowing soil to leave the site from Str water runoff may have granted their approval as well sity unless I missed anything my direct I tried to go as quick as I could good I'm more than happy to address anything I missed if not I'm available for questions um so I just wanted to ask one more question about um did you have a chance to review the engineers report um and can you provide any comments on that if you haven't already touched on those comments yes I have I had an opportunity to uh review the board's professionals report and honestly from a site engineering perspective there was nothing in there that uh we felt we couldn't address add it was all technical in nature a lot of storm water related items but nothing that was Earth shattering our our issues addressing so the applicant as a condition of approval can comply with everything absolutely all right so with that we'll turn it over to our board professionals and see if they have any questions for this witness so I I do have to agree that um there's there's a whole lot of storm water comments that I have in my letter but they are very technical in nature and I don't feel that there anything that complied with so um you know it would be something that would just be in a resolution compliance that I think the applicant would be able to just correct correct some things that we um that we found in there and if not we can work together to find some resolutions I didn't see anything in there that was um that that was going to be a showstopper okay um other than that I think um you addressed um the striping for the parking stall um you feel that there's any um sight distance problems over on Blackburn road with the exit from the new parking lot I do not I know that we didn't show a sight triangle more than happy to show that but essentially so since we are on the outside um portion of the curve you get a good view of what's coming down black turn and I feel you could see what uh is making a leftand turn from Prospect but we'll absolutely show that that side triangle make sure nothing blocks uh blocks the view um would your traffic expert be talking about maybe some directional signage inside um he can but I did see that a comment as well more than happy to essentially work with with you to to play some directional signage throughout the site to make sure we're we're flowing in the directions that uh that would be enforced right I think the only the only change to some of the um the flow on site would be um to that new parking lot and ensuring that that's an exit only correct so um so I think we could we could work to make sure that that was agreed accomodated um you mentioned the uh the allowable light levels at the um the exit and um that does make sense to have some light spillage at that area I think it's is a safety concern especially when you have a a a crosswalk there um sidewalk going across that exit um I think that's I think that was all that I had that I wanted to point out great thank you Steve do you have anything for this s i don't Mr no great so let's open it up to the board do you have any questions I do yes um for the proposed parking behind 76 Prospect is did you consider a way to incorporate it with the that parking um better with the existing parking so that you did not so that there is no need for an additional exit onto Blackburn because I know that that's there's a new four-way stop sign um which is kind of close to that corner right there so there is cars that back up I'm an avid Walker I walk on Blackburn almost every day and there is between the um driveway entrance in and out that alone um is tough to navigate so to add another exit have you considered that the pedestrian traffic also along there yeah we did and and we absolutely took a look at essentially trying to utilize the existing exits but there is existing essentially clockwise flow around that existing parking area and to try to get vehicles from this parking area to go essentially back into that parking area and then continue in a clockwise manner we felt it it would have been uh difficult to enforce people would essentially be trying to go against the flow to get out of that existing driveway on uh Blackburn which is why we really wanted to introduce essentially another way out from this this main parking area and it's only 19 cars um it's mainly going to be a faculty that would be parking back there um and we're looking at those cars you're not going to see anybody going in from that entrance in the morning majority of the people are going to be parked there all day long and it's just that one portion in the afternoon where the majority of the people would be leaving so essentially one movement that's really taking place at one portion part of the day that we're anticipating um and with only the 19 Vehicles there we didn't anticipate too much of a concern we really just wanted to try to avoid any internal conflicts as much as we could with that one-way circulation around the existing parking area so and if I could just interject I know the traffic engineer will speak about this more but um I believe the employees that Park that will be parking back there um have a more staggered time frame so they won't won't be like 19 cars are leaving all at one time I have one more question sure um on the lower actually okay on the corner of Ashland and manah Hill there's a house there is that owned by oako no even though there's there's like the fence looks like it's it doesn't look like there's like it looks like it's not technically owned by Oak School of the holy Child thank you I have a couple questions so um first for the storm water management um we're looking at is it about 4,300 feet of impervious cover at square feet or how much I think it was 43,000 43,000 just under half an acre it just added okay so can you tell everybody on the board how many gallons of that of storm water that is for a 3in storm just for perspective I'm not sure that calculation off the top of my head because we look at again it's rates that we're looking at so but it's 80 it's about like 880,000 gallons right 8 gallons per CU foot um so that's a lot of water and I I mentioned that because I wondering if you have done soils testing in the areas where you're talking about you know the basins sound like a great idea I love managing on site but a lot of summit is Clay I don't know under the parking lot have you done soil board those plac so you all these are suitable for so I know I mentioned quantity and quality as two main things that we're looking to address with storm water management the other one that the state requires is uh groundwater recharge essentially if you were preventing water from going back in the ground uh when you pave it you have to make sure that water gets back into the ground however in a case with a site like this we did storm water testing uh we went looked at the existing soil con conditions below where these basins would be and like you mentioned we uh encountered a lot of weather brck um a lot of clay conditions and we did permeability testing on those soils and they are not soils that are that essentially allow um so storm water to get back into the ground the rates are extremely low uh less than um essentially 2/10 of an inch in an hour uh so under existing conditions no water is really getting into the ground so under proposed conditions even though with with those basins proposed the water won't be getting back into the ground either which is why we're we're looking strictly here at detention it's holding the water back uh for as long as we can and releasing it at a slower rate to alleviate um the issues with with capacity Downstream of the site okay so even the detention Basin here is not by t uh Tisdale Hall that's not just percolating there's you're corre there's discharge pipe and it's just slowly discharging still goes through the soil to get filtered but then there's a pipe beneath that soil that then collects that water again and discharges it offsite okay and then um second question separate but given given the parking stress on parking I understand that you're exceeding the parking requirement but you're under your parking need right like so I think that's really what we have to be talking about is what the need it doesn't matter that you exceed the requirement if you have you know lots of people parking off site so just looking I don't know I didn't notice it really in the other when I was looking at the other plan maybe it was the color of this or something but where you're adding the 19 parking spaces um assuming that lot two would be incorporated there is this space between the carriage house and the parking lot right the 19 space parking lot have you considered adding it looks like you could probably get another 10 parking spots there if you extended towards the carriage house we did but there's a significant grade change there which is what essentially eliminate or or impacts our ability to uh to to park that there there's a a wall that essentially wraps around by that existing walkway um and that that grade change isn't uh conductive to allow us to extend that parking area well could you make that by The Carriage House its own parking area so that the people who are in that building can park there I mean I'm just you know trying to figure out the place on site where add parking we did delineate so with this carriage house now under existing conditions it's being used as a residential use that the school's really not using so with the carriage house both the carriage house and the residential dwelling in front of it we're actually gaining another eight spaces there so that's where we're getting that that those additional essentially 21 spots is between the 19 in the new parking area the eight from um 72 Prospect um and then we're losing uh several throughout the site because of the improvements the three that we lose for the new driveway as well as one of the spaces that we lose for the new handicap parking um and then we lose two spaces between B Ventura and uh and Connelly so we are incorporating as much as we can that Carriage House where we do gain additional eight spaces that we don't have today um and we're pulling 21 spaces that are currently being used on the street to now bring them on site it looks like there's room for maybe more parking there that's all on the it's it's blue here I don't I actually don't know how heavily wooded that might be or something if that's you know what the great ch not off the top of my head probably about six feet yeah I mean I think it's something to consider it does it definitely looks like a place where and and the reason why that would be probably a good place for parking is that nobody's going to see it right from that part of LED Road you already have the Carriage House hiding it I I'm I think that oal would be very happy and willing to add more parking on site so if that's a spot that the engineers think that we can add more parking we'll certainly look at that you already have a existing curve cut uh Prospect why not connect that driveway to the new parking lot and foro um this troubling additional curve cut on Blackburn well I think we discussed this you know previously with neighbors I'm just going to jump in I believe one of the conditions of the prior approval was that they were not allowed to use that driveway any other questions yeah I I have a couple um maybe you're not the perfect guy for this question but I'll ask you anyway um I don't know what your school pickup and drop off stuff is there but if if the front of the if Blackburn road is used as a drop off and parents come out to the site drop their kids off and then drive out the existing exit will that new curb cut become an additional oh I can shortcut this way to to get to the stop sign quicker or is there going to be some Provisions to not allow that to happen my assumption I don't want to speak for management is is security probably would not allow that it would maintain the existing conditions unless um you know maybe the existing driveway is is you know utilized or or closed off to push people more of that but I believe the intent is to keep the pickup drop off exactly how is uh because the new the new um curb cut is directly across from the neighbor across the street so I'm a little worried about there yeah I I think security would most likely prevent that from allowing that they'll make sure that the security there's a security off and then you spoke about the lighting uh the Overflow of the light at the new curb cut yep does that happen anywhere else on the site where will just be that site so and if not why is this site more important than the other sites Yeah question that's a great question we did do an existing light level study throughout the site so we walked the site with the light meter to determine some of the light levels um there was areas that was real minor with light spill so existing um driveway that is the the two-way driveway on ashin there's a light pole that's essentially right on the property line you get a good amount of spill there but that's accomplishing the same thing it's a it's a a sidewalk that you want to make sure you're you're providing light for um off the top of my head I'm not sure if any of the other driveways uh exceeded but more than happy to take look for just a general engineering practice that we try to incorporate just for safety but again it's something that we could comply with if it was necessary CU right um again the neighbor across the street may be subject to that overflow of light and I'm kind of concerned about that yeah there's there is a street light um that is uh probably I would say couple maybe 200 feet that's up the street uh those are Cobra heads the typical Street lighting those will be significantly brighter than than anything we we propose here so in relation to existing Street lighting I don't think you'd see much of an impact we're talking 7 foot candles which what a foot candle technically is is the amount of light that a single foot candle or a single candle puts off from one foot away so you can see it's it's very dim and um as far as access throughout the struct the complex again maybe this might be the traffic guy but you're the civil engineer uh emergency vehicle access is any of this changing right now that will hinder uh the response to your best of your knowledge no to to my knowledge the circulation of the site is going to stay the same there's no issues today and we don't anticipate any new issues good thanks another question do you know the distance it might be on here I just can't read small R from the the new curb cut on Blackburn the distance from there to the crosswalk on Prospect and Blackburn where like where the stop sign is do you know the stop line about 115 ft 120 ft okay and there's a Code minimum right I believe it's 50 feet but I defer to my traffic engineer Jay Tom yeah um where did you guys do your perk tests because this is obviously a pretty Dynamic site we you know the architect testified to that so where were the per test done and did you find any conditions that were different throughout the site I mean conditions vary slightly from from test pit to test pit uh but we did test in each of the proposed Basin locations and the results were all what the state would consider substandard for allowing permeability back into the soil okay you also mentioned that this is based on the amount of impervious surface that you're add is a different standard than the normal are you kind of insinuated that if the standard is is you know one: one the impervious surface that you're creating are you addressing the one: one standard or are you going beyond that and capturing more capacity I think I understand so you're basically saying are we going above and beyond what essentially major storm water requirements require in terms of capacity yes yes um I can tell you that we're we're absolutely meeting what's required by the city the state and the county um I don't know my exact numbers with without looking at them but I do believe we exceeded the minimum allowable uh discharge rates or essentially the maximum so we we are letting um we we're holding back more water than technically we would be permitted to to let go so we are exceeding the standards required it'd be helpful if you know by how much you're exceeding that requirement absolutely you can get back to us you don't need to do it right now yeah I'm pretty sure have my charts if I can decipher them real quick I might be able to spit out really quick answer for it um while you're looking that up we can I have one more and I have one more to you um I think we didn't look at the storm water drawings like the drainage but it looked like and I don't know if this was like sort of a pipe underground but it looked like there's an area sort of in the where a lot of flow goes down to lared like maybe it was around where the tennis ports are or something um that that's a discharge point um it doesn't I mean learned floods sometimes right and then you have conditions right like we have right now where it's it's freezing and you're having like young people drive in these you know swampy roads or icy roads like has there been any um look at addressing that discharge point to try to alleviate the issues on Road especially since you are using it for parking and for students yeah I mean we we even thought about the potential of adding inlets along Larned which would essentially result in the need to pave the road uh which I believe a lot of uh the the city is not really for they would like to keep it unimproved it really you know forces essentially slower travel but we also took a look at the site and what our site trains to leared um the site does generally slope in that direction uh a large of what looks like it could get to the road would be one the turf field however that turf field is um essentially pervious and there is a drainage system below it that captures the water that falls on it and then discharges it to the corner of ashin and lned um and then the tennis facility it actually is bordered by a stone trench that has a perforated pipe within it the intent of that pipe is essentially the capture uh the surface runoff from the tennis court collect it in that stone pipe and then again convey it to the same location on ashin so the intent is that a very small amount of the water that is generated by Oak null actually makes its way to lnet it's either co uh connected by or collected by the existing infrastructure within the parking areas the subgrade um collection system within the the pous field or that stone trench adjacent to the tennis facility um could there be some maintenance potentially done to that stone Swale to make sure it's collecting that water like it should absolutely more than happy to take a look at that but we did we did take a really a close look at that we knew how much of a concern that was for the neighbors and in our you know opinion is that this site really is not discharging much water directly to lned road so um when were those impr I mean I used to live around the corner so and I walk there all the time uh you know few it's been a few years so I'm just when were those improvements made because I do you know my memory of it is that the road got a lot of water and the source of the water a lot of the water is obviously coming from the uphill right that's water goes downhill and the only uphill location is open old school so maybe those improvements have been just in the last couple years or something or maybe something else should be done I don't know but I think it's yeah again the turf field did have drainage installed below it um and then I know just from Historic Site plans that we have about the stone trench and the perforated pipe that surrounds that that tennis facility so the intent is to collect that water and discharge It Off there's a small you know slope area that that exists between the sports facilities and lned road that slopes towards the road that doesn't have any type of storm waterer infrastructure but I really think a great amount of of the the ponding that you see along lned is just from the unimproved nature of the road um the flat areas and there's really no pitch to drain it to any type of storm water infrastructure the closest Inlet on lnet is at the corner of Ashlin and then once you get work your way down I'm sorry that not sure the names of the roads off the top of my head but to the East there's some further storm water infrastructure there but without the correct pitch from a paved and improved uh RightWay that water kind of sits there um again more than happy to take a look at the existing infrastructure that is in place for the tennis facility and the um and the field to make sure that it's been maintained and it's functioning the way it should uh but as far as other improvements uh there's there's really no other space to kind of place any type of basins or improvements that are along barned Road um and and certainly nothing that be new generated from our proposed development and just there is there any storm water management in the road right now uh no there's not there's no inlets the only way to do that would be to pave Road or you could cut the road and slope it a little bit to create some of the drainage you're talking about if it's level I mean it's a dirt road so it could be it could be sloped a little bit I think it's already been cut right well he yeah I mean the potholes and stuff that kind of exist along the road as it you know gets Cloud keep in mind it's also outside of their jurisdiction it's the city problem right well I mean it's something you can work with the city on if you want to create a safer parking be happy to work with the city but again that's something that the city would have to be involved can you just let's let's try and get it questions explain to us again why there's an above ground um storage system in the Southwest Corner could not could that not have been done like it did between the between um I don't know the names the perious yeah yeah so perious pavement is is pavement so right it counts as additional impious area and you know a bio retention Basin essentially it's going to look like a you know depression with plants in it so the intent is essentially match the existing um uh you know features that are in that portion of the s since it's it's generally wooded and and uh and landscaped now we want to kind of keep that same theme it adds additional screening for that proposed development which you'll hear from our our landscape architect um and essentially with the new storm water regulations that came back you know several years back there's essentially subsurface um detention is a thing thing of the past the only way you can do subsurface that's essentially within a uh open space or grass areas if you have uh permability capabilities in the site since we investigate that we don't have the ability to get the water back into the ground since it's and that that won't be like a swamp no that's why we have drains underneath it for that reason since it's not perating back into the ground we're able to capture it then and uh underneath and the landscape architect can show you what those plantings are going to look like okay let's open it up to public questions questions only for this portion of the testimony thank you hi I'm Morano 80 Prospect Street I'm directly across the street from the proposed parking lot um my question is did you take into consideration the six curb Cuts I have on my property that faces Blackburn Road right across the street from your proposed curb cut for your exit for your parking lot so are the one the curb cut that we have proposed on on Blackburn right I I I'm directly across the street I have six C C cuts across I have circular driveway and a back driveway that goes to my back garage and the curb cut is squarely in the middle of all of those cuts did that come into any consideration about coming in and out of the opposing properties that how that would affect them y I mean we we certainly take that in consideration which is why we aligned it with that opposite side of the driveway because you typically want to have two driveways that look at one another so you don't have two turning movements that essentially conflict they don't see one another when you're but it's not a driveway now so there is a driveway on on Prospect Street that exists with the home so this is aose correct which is going to create I think a lot of conflict in that corner with the moms driving down the street my second question to you is when we did our renovation addition on our home we put in all the appropriate water retentions that we needed to for the town and they failed miserably the the our soil did per to the extent it could to put those INR water sheds in and they never work properly along with a perious um driveway that I have on on all of my driveways it fails miserably the water runs all the way down Blackburn road and it comes down cross through my property and my neighbor's property so I'm concerned that even though you've done theud which we did and hired the appropriate people it still didn't work properly because soil is so difficult do you have do you have a question um is there anything more that you could do to make sure that these underground systems do not fail after the put in yeah absolutely so that's why we are proposing essentially an underd drained system below it because we know that the water's not going to get back into the ground so we are as it gets released at a slower rate it's still getting collected by pipe so it's not going to sit in there and in addition uh with the condition of of approval we're required to deed to this property as part of this property a operations and maintenance manual which puts on ownership that they are required to maintain their stormw management system and make sure that it is functioning properly and that's a state requirement thank you are we retaining drainage jurisdiction can add that as a condition please 64 Blackburn um uh I guess I have a similar question along the 76 uh uh Prospect part um someone mentioned that it was a condition of a prior approval that you can't use the driveway that already exists there why didn't you consider that as an A change or alternative versus adding like what what's the problems with considering that as access as opposed to adding another um access point on or exit point on blackb road I don't know it's a good question it's more so that we knew that was a a prior condition um that essentially you know this application was required to comply with so under proposed conditions we wanted to make sure we were maintaining that that condition to comply we didn't want to add essentially an additional you know more traffic through a a residential nature driveway on Prospect rather keep the essentially the existing flow of traffic on Blackburn where the majority of it uh exists was a condition of approval to not use that driveway then why is it in existence what is it doing there it was part of the the house when somebody lived there it's not being accessed no are you would you consider closing that access up good question I mean it's it's exists today it's essentially a driveway that's residential in nature and we just wanted to continue the the residential field the neighborhood which is why we we kept it there it's not used for parking it's I I it has a it's a circular driveway correct it's not a oneway access correct is this something that's more akin to the traffic I'm sure the traffic engineer can discuss this right and I think it would be important for them to know that we maybe go up into an idea of changing a prior resolution based on this resolution should it improve traffic flow and the impact on the community yeah I agree that's a might be a good idea depending on what the traffic engineer says yep um I have another set of questions around drainage um the well I'll make a comment I cut me off but I lost the car in 2020 on just down from lonard because of the flood um so there's already an existing issue where um there is too much water flowing off of just saying uh Oak's property but the whole hill there um so there's already a very very difficult situation for the people who believe live below lard I experienced it losing a car there um and um you uh I think failed to answer the question that Jay had about how much additional you're doing over and above but I think it's important that you answer that question when I had my variance for steep slope um people made me do excess over what was required um in a very material way um so I think you should consider that or will you consider that make a question consider doing more than what we're required yes yes and we we are doing more than what we're required no but you couldn't even answer will you answer the question how much more are you doing than required you're not able to answer it at this time I could if you give me 10 minutes and I do run some calculations I got plenty of numbers you're more than allow to look at our drainage report and review it yourself or he can answer it at the next hearing that's fine thank you um yeah I think that's better the uh the next question I have is um what does above ground mean is it visible correct um from uh Manor Hill and my backyard above ground meaning it's it's the storm water will be held above the ground won't be a subsurface detention system essentially the water will still be visible when there's there's water in the system is there any equipment above ground um in this case there's a a small retaining wall that essentially goes around the Basin to help form that depression how high is that wall uh at the very highest point it's about 7 ft but outside of that it's uh it it fades back down to essentially none 7 feet above the ground correct in the depression so the depression will be seven feet down at the very Southern corner of that site so it's inside correct yes but will it it's not will it stick up above ground so the pond is s feet into the ground Pond s okay and when there is um there's no water in there because it'll drain right if there's uh how do you prevent people from falling in there if they're walking through a fence it is the fence around just that um the top of the wall that that Encompass top of the wall how large is that space how the the Basin itself like the dimensions yeah how how big will the fence be around that well the fence will will be the required 42 feet or 42t 42 in for fall protection um but the Bas in itself is about 60 ft by 40t oh it's massive if you wanted above and beyond we're we're providing additional storm yeah but it's also requiring a variance correct no the detention Basin does because tech for the buffer correct yes it is requiring a variance corre okay thank you for correcting his incorrect answer to that question I think he just didn't understand what you're saying um there will be a variance and I think that when you landscaping that's proposed and then you might have more question okay so I have a question will the Landscaping have a drawing of what the spas and would the fence around it will look like does it I I maybe if it was in there I missed it we we have a landscape plan that shows the plantings within that Basin it shows the location of the fence around the Basin great thank you thank you just a real quick call just because I you it'll be answer next question but on the Basin will there be something that will circulate the water so we don't have mosquitoes and disease and that type of thing no but it's a state requirement that that Basin drains within a certain amount of time 72 hours but it'll drain quicker than that just keep I have one last question I apologize to the board and to everybody here um you had mentioned multiple times that we continue to discharge to Ashen are there any other discharge points that could work I know Lyndon Oakland and certain parts of prospect are yeah we we looked at that as a result of of meeting with the neighbors and there's there's no existing storm water infrastructure within arnet is there any on Prospect or at the bottom of Blackburn uh that's uphill so we wouldn't be able to to essentially get stor water to that point were you able to buy forgate the site what do you meaning to trunch the site take the part that's uphill and discharge it on the prospect the part that's on ashin discharge it there so point that we're we're missing is it's very important for storm water design that you don't take water from one point of the site that's draining to one spot under existing conditions and essentially direct it to another location that's a a a state requirement with storm water management that you can't change the location or patterns of So the plan of this site is entirely black burn to Ashland it's to match existing drainage patterns that's where it goes today and that's where it has to go in the future we just have to make sure that we're holding it back and reling it slower to comply with with the applicable regulations and exceed those regulations quick um we're net 16 spots right net net when we're all said and done with the dance we are net 21 in that area up there where we're out three and and 19 so that's net 16 area corre thank you very okay then U we're 42 up to 46 per impervious right sitewide you said percent percent correct what is in our R15 with our famous conditional use what what's Max 40 so okay Delta six thank you very much um in your expert opinion to Becky's Point how long what's the lifespan of the the pervious pavement that it acts pervious you know again it's required that it's maintained so essentially there's so what's the lifeand if it's maintained properly 10 15 years okay great and what's maintained how do you keep how do you keep the in clear so the pores allow the pervious pavement is essentially a a street sweeper a vacuum truck that drives over top and sucks any stuff out of it okay so you have a maintenance plan Street seeper comes by X number of times okay and then I'm looking at the grading plan quick you've got what 407 from the Blackburn cut down to inlet at 4016 call it a 90 foot 96 run do five five and a half% smell right on that grade down from where I'm sorry uh from when you enter on Blackburn heading down to the end of your parking lot of the new we just focus on the new parking yeah does about 5% smell it right yeah grade and does the impervious the perious still work when you have first flush running over that at at 5% a good first flush the twoyear Storm at first flush as it goes over the pervious is there enough pores for the skin you know to allow it to come down in because 5% not nothing on a on on a parking lot it's it's a really good question but there is guidelines for the maximum slope for perious p you what what is that Max slope to be able to get to so that your storm inet and what you're proposing there can gather the necessary storm water yeah it's 5% it's maximum it is imagine that okay thanks guys thank you yes so in front of from the entrance it's parkol days or non school hours is the curb cut out in take parking spes so my I'll defer to my traffic my understanding is parking is not permitted on okay non non school days you can't park between so that curut is take away parking spes yes it would if if parking is indeed permitted there three or four probably about three so that's another reason sorry so how is that the effect public the public need to be Tak three spaces for for having expon 19 people that are stagger faculty that can't directions and how exit well it's still a net gain for the parking situation as for the public is a loss for non school days non school well school days then there's going to be less parking on the street from people that are non school days you're taking three parking spaces from the street on non-school days but then you're going to have less people parking because School faculty and students aren't there but there's more non there's more non-school hours than there are school hours in a day correct I I think I've fall in what you're saying yeah so you're take so that you're taking away yes but my opinion more appropriate for the traffic engineer for members that can't follow directions I don't think anybody said that they can't follow Direction you said I think that the flow of the traffic doesn't make sense and you probably lose spaces if you had them come back into regular parking so you wouldn't be able to put as many parking spaces onsite them but do ENT take an exit if it's all one people are coming in work in the morning leaving at night so just enter and exit that same spot right how I think I think that the traffic engineer go through this and then if you still have questions all right with that we'll close public questions for this witness H I think we're GNA wrap up don't want to hear another witness okay for tonight problem tonight no problem not a l four seconds not Happ Stephanie when are we carrying this to uh February 3rd the next hearing okay great we had a feeling it would be more than one hearing so we prepared in advance so we need a motion to carry till when February 3r we need a motion for that is it already scheduled yeah without sove and you're providing the time to act great can I get a motion motion second thank you everyone thank you Mr Steiner Mr Steiner yes your both okay Mr Ugo yes Mr Nelson yes Vice chair Zan yes Miss chfo yes Mr feskin yes chairman like it the motion carries great uh we have a little bit of business before we have to take off it's too cold I'm doing this anyways turn the heat off on us make us faster Stephanie you want to run through the resolutions yes so our first resolution is can the public just um sorry we're still in session thank so thanks so our first resolution is 479 Morris Avenue you that's 479 Morris LLC block 507 Lots 4 and5 zb- 23- 2189 our eligible voting members are are Mr Steiner chairman lits Mr Yuko Mr Nelson Miss Cho and Mr feskin can someone please move that move okay and a second second okay bless you Mr Steiner yes chairman lyit yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Cho yes Mr feskin yes the motion carries the next one we have is 250 Hobart Avenue that's Beacon Hill club Block 2203 Lot 1 zb2 3- 2224 our eligible voting members are Mr Steiner Mr Nelson miss chfo Mr FES and Mr Chuli can we have a motion check it okay Mr Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Cho yes Mr feskin yes Mr Chuli yes the motion carries and then the final one we have is 230 Oakridge Avenue that's Thomas and Allison McMill block 5106 lot 13 zb- 24- 2264 the eligible voting members are Mr Steiner chairman lits Mr Yugo Mr Nelson Vice chair Zan Mr Kieran and Mr Malay can we have a motion so moved second second okay Mr Steiner yes chairman lyit yes m Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Vice chair Zan yes the motion carries and then finally we have the minutes uh from January 8th 2025 sorry 29 Bridge ro we're not doing no we're saving that for next time okay sorry so we have the minutes from January 8th um everyone here was present for that meeting can someone move that so move and a second second all those in favor I any opposed okay the motion carries can I get a motion to adjourn moved second all those in favor all right