e e e e e e e e okay good evening and welcome to the April 1st 2024 meeting of the city of summit Zoning Board of adjustment I'm Joe Steiner and I'm chair of the zoning board please rise and join us in the pledge of allegiance of Al the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation in accordance with New Jersey statute 10 colon 4-10 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to the newspaper of record and has been posted here at City Hall this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board May legally cons consider in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times for the benefit of the interested public this meeting is being live streamed to the city's YouTube page and is also broadcast on summit's governmental Channel That's Comcast channel 34 and Verizon channel 30 a transcript of this meeting is also being taken using the video and audio so we need all speakers to utilize one of the microphones here in the room and those are the ones on the table or on the podium we normally recently have had a handheld microphone unfortunately it is not working tonight so you'll have to use one of the podium mics um please note that the fire exits are to my right your left at the back of the room where you entered and the city does have an assisted listening system for the hearing impaired if anyone needs the hearing assistance system please obtain it here at the Das and return it thereafter Miss suos would you please call the role sure chairman Steiner here Vice chairman lyas here Mr Yuko here Mr Nelson here miss Zan here Mr Kieran here Mr Malay here miss toad here miss Cho here Mr feskin here Mr Chan Chuli here you have a quarum you may proceed okay Andy m is the zonings board attorney he will be advising the board members on matters of Law and is the key interface with the attorne and the applicants attorney his Mr ball does not vote on the applications Stephanie suos who just met as a city employee and as a zoning board secretary she works with applicants on preparing their app applications planning our agendas and keeping our meeting minutes uh Miss suos also does not vote on the applications also present uh is Carl O'Brien from ker engineering our board's engineering firm who is seated at the table to our right your left uh he's one of the experts who will be providing input to the board and he also does not vote on the application our board consists of seven regular members and up to four alternates all members can participate in the hearings tonight but a maximum of seven can vote most applications require a simple majority to be approved but before we enter into executive session to vote on your application you will be advised how many votes are required each case will begin with the applicant or their attorney giving an overview of the application process to date and the variances that are required we then hear from any additional expert Witnesses that the applicant may have to help explain the application and why the variances are needed the board members may ask questions of the applicant their attorney and the expert Witnesses once the board members and the board professionals have completed their questioning the public will have an opportunity to ask questions this is not the time to tell us what you think about the application that opportunity comes at the end of the hearing before you uh ask your question please clearly state your name spell your last name and provide your address it is important that our court reporter again using the microphones and public address system uh is able to keep a clear and accurate public record after all the witnesses have been heard members of the audience have their second opportunity to speak and at that time you may express your opinion positive or negative about the application then the public hearing is closed and uh we enter into executive session where the board members will discuss the case and vote you'll be able to listen to our executive session but you will normally not be able to participate in our discussion Christ Anderson the City Zoning officer has asked that we remind all applicants that they have to read carefully the resolution that documents the zoning board's decision and pay particular attention to the conditions contained in the resolution for example if a landscaping plan is required you must obtain one and submit it to John Linson who is the city's Forester if a grading plan is required you must have one prepared by a civil engineer and submit three copies along with the application fee to the city's engineering division failure to satisfy all conditions in a resolution will result in a delay in approving your application and it as it will cause extra work for the city's zoning staff the resolutions documenting the board's decision are usually available one month after we decide the case uh normally at this point we call the uh the cases in the order that they show on the agenda however we are going to change that just a little bit tonight uh is anyone here for the 10 Waldren application no um can you uh advise what happened with that one on the telephone call sure yes so they um they ask to carry their application um because they're looking to expand their first floor which would require an additional variance So currently they're working with their architect and they feel like carrying this application to July 1st should give them sufficient time okay we would look for an a motion to and they've given us uh all the appropriate yep so they know that they would have to Ren notice because it's going to be an additional variance they agreed to wave the board's time to act okay um my only question about this because this is a case of asking for forgiveness not permission um how do we hold them accountable make sure they really come back well if for some reason they didn't come back they didn't have the application done in time um then it would get dismissed at some point in the future and then zoning enforcement could be taken okay and they would lose all their escros I believe am I correct on that I believe so the escros that they have supplied now only the used portion of it unused portions would get returned think okay okay is there a way for us then sort of to calendar can we calendar that so that if July 1 comes and goes and nothing has happened with this application that we'll know it'll be on the July 1st agenda I can guarantee you that okay thank you is there a motion to I have another question about that because when you're putting in a variance application to expand say your first floor and maybe you're making a compelling argument now we're putting ourselves in a situation where we're going to be voting on The Dormers and the um expansion at the same time and it's all Yes or all no is that correct no you can split it up you know it doesn't always work in all cases where you can neatly split up the variance relief like that but in this case where it's kind of separate projects on one property if the board were to determine one aspect of it would get approved but you wouldn't Grant relief for the other one that is within the board's capability but we can't do any of that without the applicant here can't require them to to complete this variance um this application since it is like I said they're asking for forgiveness after something's done and then say okay if you if you want to ask for another if you want to submit another application that's a separate project I mean why isn't that I think that's pretty reasonable to ask ordinarily on a first appearance and request to adjourn the board would grant that initial request and let them present a more complete application But Ordinary arily you haven't actually built the thing that you're asking a variance for so this is not an ordinary circumstance that is true and do we know why they submitted the application was it because they somebody must have reported them they're not get all of s decide that they wanted to we don't know but that doesn't necessarily shouldn't weigh into the board's decision on any application well it's in Preston Anderson's say that the uh the application is submitted following a notice to the applicants that the Dormers observe being construction were not issued the required construction permit so the city has called them on the carpet for it yeah yeah and this is why they have to be here but they're asking for a delay and that's that's what I'm wondering I the city's saying you have to come here but now they're asking for but they will not be asking for there were a few phone calls about this already ahead of time uh and that's why a date certain has has been set so one more question are we allowed to if I mean the vote the board has to vote to approve to carry this right technically the applicant should be here is that not correct what happens when the app so if the is not here we just go based on what they've submitted and we can continue we can vote on this based on what has been submitted on the request to carry yes no I mean on the if we deny the deny the request to carry and then they're not here to present the case yes then it could get dismissed dismissed meaning denied denied could I uh make a motion uh that the appication be withdrawn at this time well they can't they're asking to carry it until July we can't withdraw it we can we can I think you need a motion to um to carry it and then if the board so desires it can vote that motion down and then it would not be carried correct yes in this case it will be withdraw no that's not a withdraw withdrawal comes from the applicant the applicant is not doing that unless we say if we vote no it's a dismissal if you vote no the application will not be carried thank you and they'll have to start all over again and they'll have to start all over again which I was told meant by Christa meant all new escripts yeah I don't believe that's the case but maybe I'm I might be missing something in the code somewhere so I move to den I second okay we have second we have a second I found a second over here well you're you're moving to deny the request to carry until July 1st okay so if you vote Yes you're actually saying you don't want this to be carried correct correct and if you say no it would be carried well then we would need a separate motion yes any further discussion V Yes means to deny carrying a vot no means to carry it right okay I'd like to continue the discussion any further discussion I mean I would imagine as a good neighbor you'd want to give for them the opportunity to actually understand what's happening here I mean I understand how like why we get to that point they could have been here and they could have shown up but I don't I wouldn't if it were me to Michael's Point are they represented by Council or by an architect or is this being direct uh it's also my understanding that they did have a conversation with Christa Anderson and they have an architect they don't have a lawyer they have an architect yes and uh I have a feeling that uh and I don't know did you discuss with Christa what she told them as to whether or not this would just be performant to carry it and or you know because I have a feeling if they knew that this was going to be this kind of an issue they might be yeah it was just kind of um you know they had requested to carry the application um the architect talked about what they wanted to do or what the applicant had talked about what they wanted to do um it was never raised by Christa or myself even um to come here in person because it's not mandatory for them to typically come in person for four people okay okay let's before people vote I would caution on taking a very hard stance tact given that the way the board has operated at least from the year and change that I've been here is that on the first motion to request to carry is generally approv I go precedent that I caution voters of the board in 15 years we've never denied a first motion to carry you know there's maybe more reason tonight to do that but I I'm strongly in favor letting them carry I mean if not they just have to start over they'll be here again anyway they yeah they're going to show up it's not it's not as if you're not going to hear this case you are going to hear this case one way or the other can you requ approve the request to carry but but say that they that they can't add an extra variance on I that has to be exactly the same way the application you can always apply for variances you can't limit many many times and you've been here they want to carry this application excuse me many times when we have had testimony on an application as we're going through we add variances because it turns out that we realize that they need them so variances can be added any time during the process and that's what the process is [Music] for one thing I would like to ask and I think this may help people is generally speaking when we have these violations issued by the whether it's chryst's office or somebody else construction generally stops you've heard it in testimonies before where somebody started building a backyard patio and it's been sitting there for 6 months 12 months even even longer so if the concern is that they're going to continue to proceed and then ask for more forgiveness I would like to believe that our construction department and our zoning department at the city will be there protecting us I don't think that's the issue because the project is complete this this is already constructed so that's I guess my you know I feel like we should have been voting on this today and they should have been putting in a separate variance application for whatever new thing that they're putting in that's how I view this project any further discussion on the motion how could we interpret their presence or failure to appear how we shouldn't we should no we should that does not consist any fact that failure to here before the board is significant we have the request submitted by them and we should hear a motion on it one way or the other uh when was that submitted we are not aware of it as a board member I'm not aware that they want to do it today I did send out the email today um today yes I did yeah but but the email from the applicant is Thursday yes it was Thursday we Wen but I was waiting to see if we were going to have a definite date to carry to so that's why I didn't send it out immediately on Thursday and then Friday the city offices were closed so that's why I waited until today because I wanted to make sure I had a date before I sent everything out and we have a date yeah we we have a date of yes at first they didn't request the date they just kind of said can we put this on hold and then we'll kind of talk about it and be in touch with me um and then we've had some disc SS with uh Mr chairman and with Mr ball and then we did come up with a date yeah but we we basically said we're we're we're not going to get into you come when you want we'll give you a date uh date certain and then go from there and uh Andy agreed with me and uh we uh we conveyed that to you and then all of a sudden we had a July 1 date which is significantly quicker than any I had originally put on a September one date you know that we had to have them on our September first meeting in September and if they wanted more time than that they'd have to come back in person um but they came back with July one yes yes ma'am I have a question I me know you said that they could add um requests for variances all along but the email it says we reevaluating a plan and may look to expand like it doesn't sound like they're they want to I mean they may look so it it doesn't even sound like they're just like it sounds like that's not really anything definite they're still in the planning session in the planning mode of their project right they're going to have the architect lay out the design make sure it works with the current house they'll probably price it out to see if it fits within their budget so I think that's probably why they hedge their Bets with that language and again there's nothing unusual or wrong with an applicant asking to carry a case there's nothing you know that's not unusual I went back and looked at the detail here we're arguing about 54 square F feet of Varan 62% assuming their calculations are correct it's not a huge number anything if they were presenting here tonight I could would be hard pressed to take offense other than the we got CL my back it sets a precedent about asking for forgiveness is the way I see it talk sub of the case now isn't getting dangerous now yeah okay yes we should get back to the matter at hand which is a motion to carry or a motion to deny the to not the motion is to not carry okay at this point is there any other Tech questions points of order whatever if not this is a roll call vote so just to reiterate yes is to what deny their motion deny okay could should should can we do it in the reverse can we can withdraw the first motion well technically we have a motion on the floor that's why I'm going that way because we have a motion the Mover can't withdraw it and yes he canose if he wishes to I just think be le less confusing if we have a motion in favor of carrying and people areos to that it's up to you if you want to withdraw the motion I don't okay okay we have a motion please call the role sure Vice chairman lyit uh no Mr Yuko no Mr Nelson I'll go with no Miss Zan yes Mr Kieran no Mr Malay yes Miss to oh wait I'm sorry no I don't get to vote this one you don't I'm sorry chairman Steiner no okay so then the word that that motion fails and the motion fails to carry now that the mo the the item is back on the on the table does anyone wish to make a motion relative to carrying this motion to carry second it any further discussion now yes says it's carried Vice chairman lits yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Don no Mr Kieran yes Mr Malay no chairman Steiner yes okay the motion carries okay um you'll communicate that what happened to them and their architect and gotcha okay now we move back to the agenda the way we normally do do it um we're looking uh now at 20 three Mars Avenue uh whoever's can you just quickly at the podium tell us how many doesn't look like you have any Witnesses um and how long do do you think you can conclude your case in 30 minutes or less yes okay U let me do the same with uh six um sorry 61 Tulip Street she's going to come up I'm assuming you're Miss kri yes okay do you um can you just tell us do you have you know what this is about and uh sure how many witnesses you have and whether or not you can conclude it in 30 minutes I can conclude it in 30 minutes I don't have any Witnesses and it's to replace a garage that was demolished by a storm okay okay then we will uh go ahead and do them in the order that we just talked about so uh Mr gr gretz close not close Okay and U muko is uh excusing himself from this particular case all right and if you can please raise your right hand do you swear Fromm the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name my name is Chris graetz my last name is spelled g r a b l u TZ thank you okay can you uh explain why you're here and uh why we should Grant the variances which uh are laid out by um there are um three variances that are uh zoning officer has indicated that you need and uh why they should be granted yes thank you um so uh the beginning of 2023 uh we installed a play structure in our backyard um we're unaware of the zoning requirements prior to doing so and on June 6 we received a notice from uh Christa Anderson from the zoning board stating that the location of the playet was not in conformance with setbacks specifically on uh my property 23 marav is located on a corner of John Street and Mars Avenue and so the setback requirement for a sidey guard and also uh because John Street my sidey yard is located on John Street is considered a front yard uh required a setback or required a variance for the setback from that location so uh the the place place structure where it currently is located um was specifically picked uh for a few reasons um specifically uh I have four kids at home all under the age of eight um so allowing adequate room in and around that play structure so that they can run around um not keeping it too close to our current garage as my two oldest are seven and 8y old boys and we'll find a way to climb on top of the garage if they have access to the play structure so we positioned it um in a nice flat area um and requesting that uh we can leave it in the place that it's currently located okay that's okay um questions from our board engineer uh we reviewed the application uh the amount of imperious coverage which is what we're looking for for uh for something like this under 300 sare F feet storm water perspective is not an issue with it grading is not an issue with it so from an engineering perspective we have no concerns with the application okay did uh I'm going to ask a quick question yes sir uh why did you uh did you you didn't check with the building office when you the Construction office or anybody at City Hall when this came up and you were going to put it in once I received the letter I did no I mean before that uh no did uh you you didn't hire an architect or was there a contractor involved who would have had an architect or anything like that we're trying to figure out why the why we're hearing this because as you heard we just had another G I did this but you know didn't do it uh here you are thank you uh again in response to uh what the city's uh zoning officer has required you to do um otherwise if it hadn't been found that would still be there exactly the way it is today so so as I've been made aware um from from the um zoning requirements is that a a front yard setback for Place structure has to be um two times the side yard setback um however it's worded it's roughly 50 ft from John Street my property is 50 ft wide so there's no physical location on my property that would conform with the zoning um both both uh specifically from the John Street side uh as that setback is greater than the width of my property um so any location I would put it in my yard it would require a variance in order to be allowable okay um Miss Anderson did make some suggestions as to location have you seen that and reviewed it I have okay your comments to that uh as as mentioned before the the location was uh specifically picked both for the for my kids safety and mind um as well as our visibility from our home um putting it next to the garage causes some concern concern about safety uh both with kids swinging on swings um and allowing access to climb on the roof um okay any other questions from board members what what is the approximate distance from the um closest edge of the play set to your garage if you had to guess roughly 20 ft my garage as you can see from the site plan is not Square to the property yeah and then um my followup would be what would you say is the distance between the other side of the play set and your fence uh the property uh which side of you not your property line of the fence uh uh speaking the gap on John Street side uh it's roughly 5T 4 to 5 ft so it allows access to walk around lawn Mo things things of that nature um I have one question yes if the if it does require a variance even if you move the swing set so um that's just a the front yard variance would be required to have a a swing set um if it were to be left in place would you consider painting it to match the house and the garage color so that it sort of blend in with the environment a little bit more I I'd consider painting my house that the swing set happens to be nicer uh paint job than my home is um we do have it's um we do have plans to update the outside of our home uh to actually conform with the white and black uh finishes that are on the playet just quite a few projects since we moved in about 3 years ago we battled a lot of water in our surface water and groundwater so some things that have taken precedence to over facade did you install your fence I did was there a reason why you chose that height uh to conform with the zoning requirements and did your fence install give you that guidance I I installed it myself okay uh no that came from uh my original submitt for the fence was to be six foot all the way around to create a little bit more privacy from John Street but uh as soon as I left the um uh the the line that is parallel with the street and my home uh it had to drop to 4T and so it steps down along that side anyone else I just have a couple questions yes sir um if required would you be U amenable to putting up some screening say like P know trees or something around that if required and then my other question would be um and you probably don't know the answer to this but I'm going to throw it out there anyway sure how far are the houses on your street set back are they 50 feet on average no they they're they're not 50 ft because uh my the width of my home is or the width of my property is 50 ft and so if you look at the survey you can see that the home on John Street that's behind my home um is if I had to take yes maybe 20t or so along the with the rest of the homes there thank you did you have you had a chance to read Mr linson's comments I did uh on Landscaping I yes and your comments uh just my thought on kind of isolating this away uh it's know a little bit maybe different than what you may hear of I just we put the play set up in our backyard um it's not just uh for my kids it's also for the neighborhood kids so we have about 13 kids just on John Street um and when my kids are outside playing they quickly run over and come over and see so uh while I do appreciate privacy it's brought quite a bit of life back to our small Street there John Street any other questions from board members yes oh I'm trying to figure out ways to articulate this um because you've got a lot going on in a very small space in your backyard um and and I am not a landscape architect by any means but you know I I I can certainly see some screening with your next door neighbor on John Street as being appropriate um the street side itself I wouldn't fuss about that much because you're on a street um but but I can appreciate that that a a neighbor might want a little extra quiet and I don't know what options you have with that driveway which seems to C cover a fair amount of your backyard if there is some of the gravel that can go away and be grasped over and then some place where you're willing to move the um the playet um I mean it's not a question it's just I've been doing this long enough that there's going to be some there's got to be some give and take here y I found it interesting that the uniform construction code has no jurisdiction over places well I there's no cement under this this is just sitting on grass I know it's I don't know if that holds you know that ties our hands in some ways or not but I asked the qu I I told you guys early on I'd need help on some of this stuff and I don't know the answer to that I'm sorry I'm I'm laughing because I am also I live on a street that has my kids are all back the kid and that's something I want to Foster in in my kids in my community um I think it's a very good thing to build strong Community ties I can't see how moving this makes material difference and to move something like this I have moved the swing set it's an absolute pain and you're picking up five feet it this seems like an thank you sorry I know we're deviating from the mogram no just yeah we got to find a way to put question marks at the ends of these I mean in particularly because there's no nearby playground this is for the kids on John Street and now we're we're we're negotiating with ourselves I'll be quiet I have no further questions any other questions from that I'm looking at it as a permanent structure if we are giving the variance uh consideration and uh it would be like structure is it uh I believe this is somehow temporary I mean uh once your children are grown up they would like to have something uh different in place so uh I don't see any mechanism of granting a temporary variance I don't know if there is no the variances would run with the land we've seen you know conditions on very temporary variances in the past when it's a matter of you know months before something changes but an indefinite period of time you generally don't want to have a uh condition hanging out there as a a temporary issue Andy could you structure it as a sunset variance meaning like if this structure would ever be removed can you have to come back we could put a condition in the resolution that that's kind of what I was you know just saying is generally that's a short-term fix um if something's in a resolution yes you know we could have that language in there but it's more likely to fall through the cracks as far as an Enforcement issue but we could you know assuming the applicant were to agree to that condition that if the playet was ever removed that variant would then uh be abolished and it would no longer apply you couldn't locate any other accessory structures in this area I my youngest is a year and a half old so it's not going anywhere anytime soon okay years oh my 10 my my 8-year-olds love it just as much so that if um if the board were to require that as a condition would you agree to imposing that that upon removal of the place at the variance would cease I I don't have an issue with that at all okay that could be a condition I have a question about that that means but could you apply for another one like so say for instance the play structure um set gets removed he moves somebody else can I mean they could still apply for the VAR again it's not like it's not like just this one ends but another one can yes it doesn't prevent something from being located there with a variance in the future okay yes would a combination of that and some additional screening with your next door neighbor on John Street be be acceptable uh just the the area along so that the the fence uh starts in the uh in the corner off of John Street the back corner of the yard uh the fence starts at six foot okay and then after about uh 16 ft it tapers down to uh 5T and then it goes down to 4T just before uh just before the parallel line that runs along John Street uh and is the same L side wall of my home okay I'm speaking more of of the the 50 Feet behind that backs up to your neighbor's driveway right about about uh a little and if you were to plant some ARB vas or something like that VES or something like that on your side of the fence my preference would be not to only because uh as you can see how that t shape comes off of the swing set that's that's the actual swinging area and so by putting trees uh in that area kind of runs the swings into the trees and doesn't really allow for the kids to kind of run around there there is uh there is fence along that entire yard so as it uh kind of blocks away from the neighbor's home uh it is 6t tall for uh that's 28t post of 16 ft and then it goes to 5T for two more posts uh and then drops to 4 ft uh which which is just uh parallel with my home so by that point the neighbor's home is uh it's it's closer to John Street than than in line with theirs I've got to ask how tall is this place at um there there's a photo at the back of I'm looking at the back and I'm asking how tall is it it's it's up there 10t that tall when I'm looking at the house it's uh if it's uh like a fort on top of uh stilt so if I had to take a guess it's probably about 15 ft tall okay story yeah it's a story and a half we have no rules to handle it rules right we can choose to enforce or as the yard grades down it's uh it's not as tall as my garages um only because my garage as you can see kind of the elevation lines it does go up and we have a taller garage so all right any other questions just just back to um question around potential screening even if it was something that was narrow buted right up against the fence in the backyard just to provide some screening so NE not looking at again I'm not sure what where house is but looking at a 15ot structure um yeah I don't I I I don't know if it's a concern from the neighbor or any of the neighbors um they not here that's that's a good sign yeah it's you know I look it's not not not trying to steer away from it only from the perspective of being able to maintain and have the kids run around there but U obviously the screening is quite expensive to put in um and we do have grass all around that area so um you know as mention we we don't have much of a backyard but we try to utilize every square inch we can okay um is there anyone in the audience that now that we have one person in the audience uh is there anyone in the audience that would like to ask a question of the applicant no and seeing uh at this point we can ask uh if anyone has an opinion on and there isn't anyone in the audience at this point other than another applicant um so at this point I would ass assume that we go to conditions if we were to approve this doesn't mean we will says if we were and uh then the number of votes required and then we will move into executive session okay so I had to two conditions noted um one is wait no do we have an engineering memorandum call there is a there is a there is a memorandum from not you but from the construction yeah but so we usually have one for compliance with the board Engineers memorandum but that won't apply so I only have one condition then um that all variances associated with the playet shall terminate upon removal of the playet understood okay we will then move into executive session who wants to kick it off um this applicant clearly has a very real hardship based on um how their site is situated um but what concerns me is that the board offered several different avenues for compromise and you didn't uh seem too interested in any of them and I think Claire actually had the best way to approach this that playset can easily move a few feet forward so there's still room behind and get some very much needed screening this is a gigantic playet I understand you're constrained by your lot but at the same time I think in order to Grant this variance we're going to need to hear um some willingness for for you to to work with us um to blay some of the traditional concerns we have for cases like this uh so for me that would be moving the place that just a few feet forward there's still plenty of lawn in front of it and allowing enough room to grow some Arbor or equivalent uh to screen a 15t tall structure um from the neighbors whether they want it or not and then have enough room to to pass through on the other side of the place it anyone else I'll chime in um I have three young kids the age of seven so God bless you I um having grasp for them to run around is very important to my household um I understand and I actually agree with Mr lus here um if you're going to move it I would suggest that the board would give guidance because it's not just it's two variances currently if you were to move it over towards the garage is very concerned because I know my kids for the fact they're younger definitely get on that garage I would be encoring the board to look at request two things rotate the PlayStation 90 Dees um but also trying to set a minimum side yard setback CU getting to 15 I think maybe a little bit much but something like say 10 ft to get that room for an AR V can make sense let say J even if we mooved within 10 ft of the garage I don't I don't know what child's going to jump 10t from the playet over to the what I'm saying is moving it so that you're at least 10t from the setback yes versus getting it to 50 cuz that's really only moving towards the driveway yeah and I don't know about the applicant's kids but I know my kids like the Catapult and jump off the swing and grass is much nicer than gravel or driveway agre um but the frankly the front yard setback of 50 ft that's just imp impractical it's a clear hardship there yes so moving it closer to the garage I'm more concerned about the neighbor on John Street with some kind of privacy and pushing it closer to the Morris Avenue location than than anything else I think the one thing that I noted when I looked at went to the property was that there are no trees right there's no there none and I do think that even just um partly for screening but partly for the Aesthetics I don't know if there used to be trees here and they were removed for the gravel driveway or for the playet um you know we obviously don't have that information but I do think that just to soften the whole thing and make it look you know it would be better to have some some Greenery in there whether that's um Arbor VY or something else um but I do feel like it could use a little bit just do I have an not not right now we'll give you I they give you a chance at a little later can I can I yes I I agree with Miss um I think one of the things I mean it looks like I I think that's the hard thing is it looks very Stark it's very um there was not much green at all I mean it looks like there's just there's no there's nothing at all no trees that you could see in the picture um and even driving by it looks like I mean I think there's room in front of the fence also even if it was just soft up with some shrubs along the way it would see make it feel more of a park like um atmosphere instead of being like an extra building there and think that's that's my issue not as much as the location because yes I understand that there is not many other places to build it but even if you just softened up the whole thing and put it you know a tree I don't necessarily think that the you I think the fence seems like it's um it's a nice looking fence and it seems like it's high enough tall enough against the neighbor's driveway and Andy could we say that making these suggestions for shrubs or for um trees on on the side yard that's a positive criteria is that correct for public benefit M yeah absolutely you know adding screening it both positive and would reduce the negative impacts on the neighboring property as well okay could we perhaps condition it to the um consultation of the applicant with our engineer and our Forester to come properly with and a way to move to to help him with his dimensions of where he would need to move it in order to get what you want at the other end because I don't know that any that I know I don't know what how far he has to move it uh 5 ft has been suggested uh Christa said flip it 180° um you know there are all kinds of suggestions on here um but we've got to I I think we do he have to hire one and come back to us well I think we should if we're going to be considering uh a motion tonight we should have final setback figures that we're willing to allow as part of the variant because we can't just leave it completely open-ended for the engineer to determine well either Scott or J suggested 10 and 10 I thought which given the size of the lot um and the need for kids to move around struck me as reasonable I keep checking both sides in case there's any other comment any thoughts from engineering yes if you go with with 10 and 10 or whatever the board decides to go with what we can do is we can work with the applicant and through your zoning office and building department to make sure that you know it doesn't have to come back to the board again we'll just work through the details to make sure that whatever is agreed upon that's what's going to be met and that's what's actually going to be moved or built or whatever is agreed upon between the two different parties so I I guess it would be a condition of approval so that I could handle what we need to do to make sure that what the board's looking for actually gets executed is that now I'm going to ask you is that something that you are willing to accept a 10 and 10 with the uh concurrence of zone of U engineering and landscape and and the screening and the screening on the side here uh what would be greatly appreciated is to be able to leave this structure um where it is it's as mentioned it's you're you're not hearing us I'm sorry if I may um but to plant uh coverage uh inside the fence along the neighboring property and to the outside of the fence along John Street uh to meet the length and the width of the structure so that the corner of the lot is has a privacy uh screening with something like a skip laurel or arbide some sort of plan any other comments from the board uh I think I take that as a turn down of the the condition I think before we get to deep into the weights here I think Claire's suggestion was only along well it was m who had suest along John Street yeah and really it was our Forester who started the whole thing right we just kind of cut it back just along that 50 foot section if you're on John Street fence to the right just to shade your neighbor a little bit um I think you know um we're trying our best here to let you leave tonight you just got to comprehend what we're um saying I know it's expensive I have the same size lot I had a swing set I went through the whole thing I get it um but at the end of the day um There are rules and we're we're bending them a little bit because of the hardships and the and the positive aspects that we're we're describing uh to get this done I appreciate point that too yeah just to clarify I was not suggesting that there had to be screening along John's street I was just suggesting that some Greenery added to this property would as um Miss chfo said soften just the look of the whole thing and whether that's along the back we'll call the backyard the neighboring yard with the neighbor on John Street or somewhere on the property um it seems this property would benefit from that to sort of distract some attention from the play set yeah we I I have always planned to put some sort of tree cover um along John Street um just patiently waiting uh saving rather pleas good good ask me um I I'm I'm I'm suggestion that we let them keep the playet where it is because I think it seems like a lot of more we're more concerned about it seems like a lot of us were more concerned about the screening and because even if you move it visually I don't think it's going to be that much of a difference um it's going to help with the numbers and the setbacks and everything but I you're still GNA see it so I think the emphasis should be on the screening and not necessarily I'm not say the screening just the softening of of the the hard the hardness of everything thank you well I thought I offered an opportunity for the applicant to help us and uh unfortunately we got turned down and uh we we really need to get this thing to be safe and to be properly screened and um I just don't see that uh that happening and I'm not sure what happens if we turn this down um if we turn it down it's in violation I assume that Miss Anderson will come and uh issue a citation we'll go to court if I got it right that's a possibility uh and uh the judge May order it removed uh that's any number of things that can happen uh if we turn it down but I'm not sure that uh I've seen a compromise here uh that's good enough to accept leaving it where it is Mr chairman would it be appropriate for the applicant ask for an adjournment to have a moment to talk with the landscaper or we could we could bring it back at another date if he would like to ask for that consideration could it be a condition compliance with the uh City forest we we're just giving him additional time to consult with whatever experts he needs to talk to in order to come back with hopefully a compromise that this board can and uh you know we do we have a date that that that that we could offer May 20th okay um but again that's up to you because you can see where the board is going and I I don't believe I noted the vote requirement before and just want to clarify that we have seven voting members here tonight um you need four to approve the application as it only involves C variances so before we talk about potential other dates you can dat I think May 20th if you are willing to carry it discuss it a little more look into it further and come back on the 20th with a hopefully come back on the 20th with a revised plan and maybe even accompanied by somebody an expert and letting us uh explaining what what needs to happen would the board be able to consider the landscape privacy and all at the same time on the 20th that's that wouldn't be something we could consider tonight no we want I think we want to do it all in one in one one one resolution which would be taken at the next I I think he's asking if we can move forward tonight with the vote if you are willing to add screening is that what I'm hearing that would be appreciated okay sorry just clarification on that are you asking us to potentially move forward with the location as presented but adding the screening correct I open it for discussion well I have one more question because I just think screening that word is tricky right because screening suggest your going to put Arbor VY in the back and you had already said that if you leave it where it is you don't actually have room for screening so I just want to clarify that we can dictate we can say we need if we need screening on John and on the the side yard property line then we that could be conditioned I say generally we would condition it right so that it would have to probably will have to move a little bit basically to put that screening in based on whatever circulation he needs right right or yep wants to use it post screen uh just given given the location of where kind of the other kids play in the yard with soccer and the visibility of where the playet is from our windows in our home to be able to watch the kids it's it's in a a very good location for us um so I would uh be more than happy to meet whatever requirements on the uh landscape screening to be able to keep it in the location um it's uh big help for me I I think the board's willing to consider not moving the playet as long as you can conform with the screening conditions that we put on your application tonight so if you can live with our provid up against Great unless someone feels differently I would defer to Mr Winston to see if there is something that can be thin and Screen appropriately I'm not barberist but I trust him so I would defer to that would skip laurel just only be in kind of a softer leaf and notable I think yeah I think you have that discussion with Mr Lind yeah you the condition would be submitting appropriate species number location he signs off on it you're good to go thank you and are we requiring any particular height or are we completely deferring that you know I think he spelled out did he say 8T [Music] yes that's just standard yeah I think go with and are we asking just for screening between the neighboring property are we asking for that L shape or L shape L shape in the corner so you understand that you're willing to agree to that condition that you will screen in accordance with his comment in the report but it's for his review and approval yes sir okay and the board is okay with well majority at least is okay with imposing that as a condition with imposing that as a condition yes okay so at this point I would uh entertain a motion to approve the application with all of the conditions which maybe we should read again just to be safe certainly so I have that first all the Vari associated with this playet shall terminate upon removal of the playet and second the applicant um shall conform with the screening requirements um as set forth in the city forester's memorandum and shall confer with the city Forester regarding the screening of that property okay and again it's four votes four votes to approve yes okay and I just want to confirm that sounds like we're not requiring a condition that that the place that be relocated no correct okay is there a motion second I'm sorry who second it I did okay Vice chairman L yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Zan yes Mr Kieran yes Mr Malay yes Miss toad yes chairman Steiner yes the motion carried okay congratulations I know it was a little difficult but we got there I got four kids that'll be happy and a wife that'll be happy when I get home um thank you very much what I what I would would again strongly recommend is that when you see the don't do anything tomorrow understood uh except perhaps talk to Mr lindson but uh when the resolution comes next week next month here uh and you probably be sent one in advance to make sure that it says what we all think it should say um and then make sure you follow what it says that's you know otherwise U Miss Anderson will be at your door step against which we don't really want to do thank you uh just so do I work with the Forester in between now and next month's meeting you can but it's not required ultimately you know the the variance is going to or the condition is that you submit you know what you're proposing to the city Forester confer with the city Forester but it doesn't have to happen before the resolution that will just be a condition that's imposed in the resolution itself and that goes through the stuning office same same office I've been working with in on Thursdays so you could contact the office on Thursdays thank you very much thank you okay does anybody need a break or do we keep going keep going come on back come on up we have a uh need to stay or no no no you good night you've been through enough okay I'll swear you in before we get started if you could raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth please state your name spell your last name name i e R YF thank you okay um by now you know what we need to do which is to uh go over just why you're here and what the variances required are uh which may not be what you thought they were but when you got um when you got um Miss Anderson's report you'll see that there are three of them that she has brought up um there also was an issue relative to uh and the board should know that there was an issue relative to uh what do they call it the uh the flood flood map and originally they thought it was in now it's not in so we can proceed with the application without any any thought in that that particular area it's not uh not required for the project and the application can continue the weird thing is that the city doesn't seem to know who owns the creek I'm not going to worry about it I know we've been told we can go ah I like Creeks well I know but there's another one there's another application where that keeps getting put off the one on West End where there's a a chunk of land by the railroad tracks that the city doesn't know Lo but we're go we're we're going to help okay never mind this applicant now if we can okay so why um obviously you had a tree decide that it like your property yes um so on August 13th one of my neighbor's trees fell down in about a 15minute storm in the middle of the night and it took down two other trees with it they uh demolished my single car detached garage which was grandfathered in on my property um it also damaged my house and my car so this is my my third and final step in the repairs is to rebuild the garage and the exact same location with the exact same dimensions even though the ordinances today require so why do you want to do what is there a possibility to build it so that it has the wider so if it were moved to the other location on the property on the other side of the house it would have the same issues with the rear and side yard setbacks okay and the Creek flood whether it's flood or not flood zone um so if it were mov move to another location on the property would have the same issues and it would be an extreme financial hardship and there would be two 100y old trees that would need to come down to do that that doesn't look like something we want to do but okay um I did see the uh one comment about the charging station and it apparently is attached to the side of your house it is so that was unaffected so that will not be moved no okay so you're not adding it to the to the garage or anything like that okay the lot is undersized so again we go back to how many times have we done this calculation that if it were the right size we wouldn't be here uh so I think we can do that calculation real quick so uh that's one one particular area that we talked about uh um Carl do you have any questions uh well we did a review dated March 11 L for it uh the big thing and I know chairman you touched on at the beginning was uh the fact about didn't be P out of the blood Hazard area there was a l we checked on it worked with the uh city engineer on it as far as anything dealing with storm water it's a nonissue because it's outside of a slood hazard area uh the appli looking back to looking to put it back in place to where it was and not looking to take out any trees well trees were already taken down so um that that's what we have there uh as for the application itself you to be stated it it's a smaller lot minimal locations to um relocate it but if there's something that you would think about putting it elsewhere you know I would discuss that other than that I we have no objection to uh putting it back to where it goes as far as the is concerned anything okay questions from the board I have a couple Mr chairman based on comments oops comments from Chris Anderson report um you you presented a survey dated December 2005 correct and M Miss Anderson wants you so just ask you to confirm that um that this there have been no changes to the property since the day that survey provided she says the city Su construction permit database indicates that permit was issued for removal and repaving of the driveway in 2013 it is unknown if the existing driveway is the same as it was on that 2005 survey so the driveway is exactly the same um all the driveway crew did was to dig up the asphalt that was there and resurface it there are Belgian blocks that separate my NE my driveway from my neighbor's driveway and those were not touched they were just repaired so nothing was changed in the within the confines of the space okay yeah and and walking around there yesterday I agree with her other one of her other comments that it looks like it's going to be difficult to construct replace the garage it had without you know quote trespassing on the neighbor's property so she suggests that we had a condition so I got a letter from my neighbor the direct neighbor that I share the property line with and they both signed off on no problems with construction happening okay can you uh provide that to us and we'll we'll mark it as what A1 I think Mr we want that as a condition though in some fashion correct yeah we should impose that and I I imagine that you don't have any objection to um conditioning that any construction any required entry onto their property you will receive their permission sure okay Y and we are the owners of 63 Tulip Street and immediate neighbors to jie keyri anyway of 6 on Tulip Street the purpose of this letter is to Grant permission for her contractors to enter upon my property in and around the area of my garage for the purpose of rebuilding through the her adjacent garage and it's signed by Sonia and Carlo paor I guess that puts it on the record the hard way and just one other question um I think uh well the the app the Forester noted that he doesn't you know he has no objections he says no trees landscape will be disturbed he has no objections when the when that tree fell down did it take out any did you have any other Landscaping back there that the tree took out besides so it was from my neighbor's house across the creek so it fell over the creek onto my garage um it damaged a couple Arbor V so they'll be replaced okay yeah maybe it damaged two out of six okay so they'll be I'm assuming there's an insance company involved in there is and it's been a lot of red tape okay they never want to pay the claims do they that's all I had okay anyone what prevents us from having a 4 foot uh uh sit back on the left side I don't see any anything that prevents moving that so it's a wonderful to move that frame uh you're building it from scratch right or you using the same existing structure um I was told that the concrete pad that was there will need to be excavated to be able to pour new buddings so that needs to come up but if the drive if the garage were moved over to the right um it would not be in line with the driveway and it would there wouldn't be enough clearance between the house and the garage I don't see that as a problem because you do have enough room on the uh complete driveway and one will not affect the U driving in and out it would have to the garage would have to be angles I can understand the variation that it takes that might be hard but but just adding foot of concrete of foundation to the right and moving it little bit it would have to be angled in a different direction than the house in order to be able to if you moved it over to the right I think I I'm challenging my brain but I think that would wouldn't that also add lot coverage yes it would add impious coverage you have you now have a scam from the existing asphalt to brand new asphalt which would up in there and that would be a point of future failure it wasn't all for at the same time um I'm not sure what's exactly under the existing driveway if it was just two in of asol on top of stone or is it on top of dirt or what have you um know the minute you start adding new with existing you have a a point of delure somewhere in the future um if you're looking to build on top of the existing Foundation probably your best bet construction wise um but I understand the concern about shifting over for side yard setbacks and everything else like that but then you have to weigh that against what doesn't make sense with shifting it over with new asphalt and increasing impervious coverage so you know it's ultimately a decision for the which way you want to go you have a couple different variables there to think about well and let's see is it not the case that your neighbors at 63 tulip also have the garage too close to the property line so you almost have to each of you has to trespass to maintain the exterior of your garages so you have to cooperate correct is there another backyard structure in your yard that is not showing up on so I think we need to talk about that there something it's also potentially preventing the garage from being moved right I so there are there are brick seating areas brick patios small brick patios um and there's like I guess you'd call it a pergola over um over that but it I don't think that is the issue with the garage being moved necessarily it's more clearance from the house to um and the Ang having to angle the garage mhm and then before I visited the property I was wondering if the the garage could be moved forward a little to decrease some of the driveway um and to get I mean and then you were describing what's going to happen with the garage because you've got an existing footprint or whatever that looks like oh you just put another garage up where it is yeah so is all that coming out or are they going to be able to reuse the concrete well not the concrete but the fact that it's located where it is I I don't know the engineering terms the footprint footprint is the footprint would be exactly the same you're going to the same size yeah same location 12 by 18 and and because nobody knows who owns the creek you can't reasonably get the permission of of that property owner to go behind the garage I was getting there I think there is a need for a better survey or more uh more current current it doesn't show up I understand here there is 1ot 37 uh I don't know what that is and then the 2.98 which is mentioned in the uh zoning uh board U uh zoning uh officers uh number one for left side the are proposed of 298 ft while the 2.98 is shown here as if it belongs to the neighbor and we have here 1.37 so if we approve what we are looking at is is not really uh are we approving this one here so what it appears to me just by looking at the survey the neighbor's property the front corner is 2.98 offset to the property line the rear corner is 3.07 the applicant's front corner to the property line is 1.37 and the rear corner is 1.11 so that's really what you're looking at uh based on this drawing yes yeah yeah that's what I'm looking at and uh I see here 1.37 which is way way uh off from what the uh zoning officer wrote here proposed I read here for left side setback proposed 2.98 ft where 4T is required while I see here it's 1.37 white foret is required so there is a discrepancy that I can can't really uh understand so aside from that confusion right mistake on one of the other um Gage is taken down by treat natural disaster they're looking to repace as it is existing position no changes a creep in the back the neighbor's garage for [Applause] Clear if we were to ask you to move it then that would require changing the the size of the concrete driveway potentially angling the garage or leaving it asending when was the garage originally built the house was built I think in 1920 something and I believe it dates back to then um yeah that's all I know does it matter that the pergola is not on the survey I mean I just doesn't matter I mean I don't know if that's a something that requires permitting and variance or any of that I just the impious surface should it's over 350 ft or 300 ft whatever it was yeah the issue is if it would be getting close to the impervious coverage limit then that would need to be accounted for I don't know if we're anywhere close that to that figure or if there was a setback I think just to follow up on that the only thing that just survey does is it tells us that there's nothing back there so the question about moving a garage was based on this maybe part of the Assumption was there was nothing in the backyard um but that being said I mean the garage is the garage it was there until August of 2023 and through no fault of her own it it got destroyed subsized a lot using the same footprint I'll leave it at that yeah I I no problem replacing the garage what was there I do have some concern though about the confusion between the zoning officer report and the survey should we Rec I know sometimes Chris anerson suggests requiring a new survey as a condition should we I don't think she did now should we suggest that though should we add that as a condition so and I guess I don't know maybe the question should be for Carl right now is the answer readily apparent based on this survey are the figures that we have in Christa's memo of the side yard setback and rear yard setback off were those looking at the neighboring property and they should I don't have Chris's report but I'm looking at the I got it zoomed into where it is for the on the survey and it's what I said previously and I'm going for the back corner from for the existing garage so the back corner closest to the property line is 2.2 and the back corner the furthest away from the so it's did this survey back in the day just took the corners of the of the structure okay and just went to the rear property line your side property line so we think then that the left side yard set back is being proposed at 1.11 fet in the back corner is 1.11 and in the front corner 1.37 2.98 and 3.07 is on the neighbor's property according to the survey I think that's the answer you know it is a valid survey um and I think we can pretty confidently go with that perhaps just asking for confirmation from our zoning officer that those are indeed the figures okay I mean and this came in late it's one hesitates to question Christa but she may just have been rushed it's a tight spot with a lot of numbers yeah so if you're looking at this and not diving into it like I'm able to zoom in on it on the screen so I can pick it apart pretty easily if you're looking off of a 8 and a half by 11 sheet or 11 by 17 you might not be able to see that as clearly you could see how those numbers might be yeah true I mean I have that corner just completely taken on my entire screen right now that's exactly why I think in new survey will help for future purposes but it's going to show you the exact same dimensions yeah but at least we know what we're talking about we do know it says it right there that she made a mistake potentially and then if if she we can potenti go down that path and we then causing additional expense and stuff for an applicant that we won't don't really need to do because we have the real numbers is what you're all telling me yeah as long as we get Chris to agree to that that's one point uh one not 2.98 okay and we could discuss it with Chris as well if she any questions with it based on what I'm seeing right now yeah all right any no audience no questions any opinions of blank audience no um anything you'd like to say as and a wrap up no I don't think so I appreciate your time um we will go to Executive session the conditions are we have three conditions one is compliance with the conditions noted in the board Engineers memorandum second that the applicant shall obtain permission from the neighboring property owner for any potential entry onto their property during construction of the garage we got that what's that we we have a a letter but we're still going to require that as a condition okay um and third the applicant shall confirm with the zoning officer that the final left side yard setback figure is 1.11 Ft okay and once again only a c variances are required here so four affirmative votes would be required to approve Okay who wants to open up discussion I would um I think it's a very reasonable application I mean she had a garage I don't know how long um lived in this property probably in here somewhere very reasonable the garage was damaged and destroyed by a storm she's asking to rebuild the garage um the only thing that I suggest is um if you read the historic preservations comments just saying that um you know just to to try to if if you can design the garage where it kind of fits in more character with the uh house I mean it's a chance to maybe make an improvement there but I I support this application I I agree with all those arguments I think you assum you get your Insurance coming to cooperate the tree may have done you a favor in the long run may have bought you a new garage that I'm sure the old one maybe look good but I'm sure it's going to be better shape once it's replaced um yeah I think replacing the garage that was there you know we're not adding to any situation that didn't exist before it was very tight back there but I think that's a necessity given the configuration of the and the size of the Lots so I I can sport it as well anyone else okay I think uh to be honest with you I think when nature takes down something that we uh that we built and that they had nothing to do with it they should have been allowed to just put it back up but that's not the way it works that's why we're here uh but I think I don't see any negatives to this uh the neighbors will have everything that they had before you will have everything that you had before which is positive for your family because right now you don't have it uh and I uh totally support where we I going so I would uh entertain a motion make a motion we approved approve second Vice chairman lits yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Miss Z yes Mr Kieran yes Mr Malay yes chairman Steiner yes the motion carries Lu so I contact Christa with that confirmation or the resolution will come in a month you'll receive a copy of it probably ahead of time uh you know but don't do anything until with your insurance company or anybody else you have the resolution approved because we're now going to approve resolutions that we did a month ago okay we'll we'll raise that with Christa and just let her know that that's an issue but just if you could check in with her to be sure she has all the information she needs and she can confirm that figure but we'll give her the proceed with an architect yes after the resolution is in place yep okay um we have uh some resolutions to approve sure um from you you're perfectly welcome to say you can go you can go if You' like yeah you can hang out all want but before we get to the resolutions I just want to note I was contacted just this evening right before I was leaving for the meeting um by the applicant at 58 Beverly they indicated that they just got uh the draft resolution it was stuck in their spam filter they were away this weekend and they didn't have a chance to review it they are asking that they have the opportunity just to have their architect review the resolution make sure it looks good so we're asking it to carry it to the next meeting for approval uh which we're within time to do so I would recommend that we just uh so we will take that off the agenda and uh move forward with the one yep okay so the resolution that we have on for tonight is 7s6 Road that's zb2 32227 block 251 lot 9 that's step and Jesse Aldridge our eligible voting members for this resolution are chairman Steiner Vice chairman lits Mr Yugo Mr Nelson Mr Kiran and M M to can I have a motion to approve the resolution MH okay and a second second okay whoever you want Vice chairman lits yes Mr Yuko yes Mr Nelson yes Mr Kieran yes Miss to yes chairman Steiner yes the motion carries next we have are the minutes um they're from March 18th um we could do a Voice vote for the minutes um but we will have to exclude the members who were excused that evening which were Miss Don Mr Nelson Mr Kieran and Mr feskin move move to accept the minutes okay second second okay all those in favor I any opposed okay the motion carries okay okay uh we have U our annual report ready to finalize I know you see at the end of the page uh the final page that my name is attached to it it should be Scott he did all the work on it so I'm going to turn the um the discussion over to Scott um to uh open up any input from all of you and and uh hopefully get a motion to move it forward and uh finish it six months ahead of last year thank you Mr chairman so this board is seeing various iterations of the report um you you will notice that there's some items that have been added some have been removed I've been given very good guidance on what cont constitutes an annual report um I I guess I needed a little bit of reminding on that so I'm appreciative of um the guidelines and I would like to share them with this board just as a reminder uh the the purpose of the report is to take items that we see in actual cases um and then put them forth in this summary as a way of suggesting possible changes because of the anomalies that might occur uh during our regular business during the year okay um so we are not a policymaking group while it was given some excellent suggestions about some various uh I would say policy changes that could be part of the future reimagining of the master plan that's supposed to happen every 10 years um we as a body canot engage in that sort of um conversation through this report and there was some other really good suggestions about some of the items that people have seen that they like or don't like that's fine but we have to find certain language that makes makes its way in the form of a recommendation rather than uh a personal preference so that's why you've seen the changes that have taken place to the draft of this report now having said that we would like to come to a consensus So based on the previous drafts and the changes I've made I think a healthy discussion based on what we have here tonight is um worth our time but please keep in mind that we do have some parameters I know that one of the suggestions made was to talk about um the the intermingling of variance approval and and um permit building permit approval uh based on what we saw tonight or didn't see with Waldren in terms of people going and doing something and then asking for forgiveness rather than permission right but I understand from uh the esteem Mr ball that that's not something that's within our uh parameters are are scope to be able to accomplish so that's why uh that language will be stricken from this final version of the report better known as number 14 there you go may I ask a question about that so uh specifically about number 14 I have one other question but so the report does it only have to be recommendations or can it include findings something things that we have observed instead of making a recommendation can it be noted as a finding that this is something that we happening we saw it happening with the one tonight I believe we also saw it a few weeks ago or a month or two ago with another property so I think that to I could understand that it can't be incorporated as a recommendation that the municipal use law basically says anybody can put in a variance but just as a general finding and putting in a note to say this is something that we see an observation I don't know I I feel like um you know you know when I ask the question I think that about that the you know is this something that can be interpreted right I think I that's what I asked and we could incorporate that yes as a finding I think there's just at least from what's recommended here it's not a good it's not a feasible solution because the municipal land use law compels us to hear variance cases and an applicant can bring those at any time so yeah whether it's you know us recommending it or the city looking at it we the city cannot impose a limitation on applications based on you know a time frame comparable to permits it might be something that the city then transfers over to enforcement to make sure they're on top of those issues but um you know as far as applications go and our ability to hear them our hands are tied on what we can say in there right but but we could say you know we've seen this happening and maybe there is something creative we can do with the Dr that planning can think of that we can't or and and I think Mr ball had said well zoning board can start voting against those and if that is sort of the precedent that that happens then those will be brought less frequently right the ask for forgiveness will not become not be something that's happening as often I just feel like on some way it should be because this is a public Doc it's going to be a public document right so it's a recognition of something that the zoning board has seen the fact that it's out out of our hands right that we can't control it doesn't mean we maybe shouldn't reference it I don't know just to say this is something as a board we're looking at right when we're we're considering this so everybody knows when they come in here that we're considering that I don't know if that's do can we do recommendations and findings yep yeah we can well I mean we can say I I think what what Andy is saying is we can ask the planning board to fix it we just can't tell them how to fix it well not even sure that they're the ones that fix it the certificate of zoning occupancy fixes it if somebody went and looked at the house my neighbor actually couldn't occupy their house until so it somebody came and looked at it right well no they were going through to get their certific occupancy and it was it was a double front yard setback issue and the patio infringed on that second front yard by three feet on a corner and they held up occupancy for seven months but that's only because they moved out of the house if you're in the house right like like the house that the one today that was moved they still you know you're not withholding the zoning certificate of occupancy because they didn't move out can they can we make a recommendation of the impos fines I don't know the answer who impos the zoning officer enforces it or enforcement city of summit I I I don't mean to digress on that I I think giving the findings is appropriate I did have another question on this is with the housing regulations that just got changed by the governor whether or not number nine needs to be addressed or just very clearly saying that it's a finding just like number 14 well I mean I can speak to that that may predate you Jay and some of the newer members there have been two different developments one on Park and one on Ashwood where the developer bought up three adjoining lots and put a duplex on each of them yep and there's no set aside obligation because this affording H the affordable housing set aside comes comes into play once there are five units on a single lot and although there were six units they were on three different Lots but any of us driving by would have said that's one development and so that's what that is trying to get at no I get what you're saying and is a developer I look at this things and that's if the code is written this way I'm going to play the game of course but what I'm saying is with the new regulations coming out from the governor's office MH there's a question on whether or not we can do anything whether this gets taken up or againsts entirely okay and I I don't know that answer I'm not a specialist in affordable housing law it might be something that the affordable housing Council for the city can take a look at and determine you're on that you're he Scott on the special committee so he can take I was say Clear Point saying this is our finding we have exact specific answers or scenarios of this we should address it in in conjunction with the new Governor's okay well we can tweak that language the one that jumped out at me is that 4 6 and 7even kind of all belong together into what's an impervious service swimming pools driveways and impervious in general good point oh they can be pulled together or I could find a way to consolidate I have a question about number two just as a new member to the board so in the last last year were there applications for stacked garage stacked parking it was at the end of 2022 at the end of 2022 yeah all right but not since favorite project well I was just wondering if in the last year there were there's a grand there's a grand total of two buildings I believe in some had one a year and a half before that yeah yeah on Summit Aven yes so I I was just wondering because that's a 2023 um so that was looking back at 2022 many of these have been in multiple years the port kosare um has been around forever Carri over a lot yeah so some of these are carryovers but um they're talking about uh redoing the master plan a year early so um if there's items that we feel even though they they're carried from previous years and want planning board to take them into consideration even if they didn't get heavy um consideration By Us in 2023 it's still probably worth keeping on the list okay okay so we're going to rewrite uh 44567 yes sorry to do that to you no that's clar it's a great observation I'm certainly happy to yeah and we're and we're making into a finding um and yes a recognition of something that we've seen okay um multiple times as of tonight um and then Jay had a good suggestion about trying to find a way to add additional language to number nine that recognizes the change the state level change in affordable housing as it affects that recommendation so I'll get all that done okay we'll get this out a lot quicker um for everyone to review and then we can have a final round of comments and then hopefully a vote in two weeks on April 15th now April 15th will be a long meeting because we begin we begin with training uh at I believe that second training session with with h Christa is that night and it starts what at 6:45 no it starts at 5 I'm sorry 5 yeah uh okay it's really early uh and then we'll have some refreshments and then we'll start at 7:30 and we have two uh significant cases on that night one we are giving an hour to restate their case and the other one then starts and we understand they'll probably take the whole night MH so 11:00 it will 5: to 11: I apologize now all right so we might be voting on this a month for now well no if we indeed have the draft with and you know please use email and talk to each other you know talk to Scott and let him know what you think if we we've got an agreement that everybody's on board we can pass it great great we do resolutions all rather quickly if indeed uh we we have consensus excellent am I allowed to say that I did anyway for forgiveness it's the night for it I know uh our next meeting is April 15th any other business if not a motion to adjourn second second all those in favor good night all for