##VIDEO ID:tDInnt_RnUY## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e good evening and welcome to the February 3rd 2025 meeting the city of summit Zoning Board of adjustment my name is Scott lits I am the chair for the zoning board please rise and join us in the Pledge of Allegiance Al to the the United States of America to the for it stands one na indivisible andice all thank you in accordance with New Jersey statute 10 col 4-10 adequate notice of the special meeting has been provided to a newspaper of record been posted here in City Hall this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and decorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times for the benefit of the interested public this meeting is being live streamed on the city's YouTube page also broadcast on summit's government Channel which is Comcast channel 34 and Verizon channel 30 the transcript of this meeting is also being taken using video and audio so we need all speakers to utilize one of the microphones in the room please note that fire exits are to my right your left and at the back of the room where you entered the city has a listening system to assist the hearing impaired if anyone needs hearing assistance please obtain the system at the de and return it thereafter Miss suos please call the role sure chairman loits here Mr Steiner here Mr Yuko is excused Mr Nelson here Vice chair Zan is excused Mr Kieran is excused Mr Malai here miss chfo is excused Mr feskin is excused Mr chili here Mr nearing here you have a quarum you may proceed thanks Stephanie Annie ball is a zoning board's attorney Mr ball advises the board members on matters of law is the key interface with the applicants attorney Mr ball does not vote on the applications Stephanie sulos is a city employee and is the zoning board secretary Miss sulos works with the applicants on preparing their applications planning our agendas and keeping our meeting minutes Miss sulos also does not vote on these applications also present are experts who are hired annually by the board to Pro provide input to the board tonight we have Marie ra from cers engineering and Ed snikes from Burgess Associates these experts are seated at the table to the right uh the Public's left they also did not vote on these applications our board consist of seven regular members and up to four alternates all members can participate in the hearings tonight but a maximum of seven can vote most applications require a simple majority to be approved before we enter executive session to vote on the application you'll be advised as to how many votes are required each case will begin with the applicant or their attorney giving an overview of the application and the process to dat and the variances that are required we then hear from any additional expert Witnesses the applicant may have to help explain the application why the variances are needed the board experts followed by the board members may ask questions of the applicant their attorney and the expert Witnesses due to recent cases running excessively long we strongly encourage applicants and their experts to give brief and concise testimony so we get may get to as many cases as possible in a given evening once the board members and the board professionals have completed their questioning the public will have an opportunity to ask questions this this is not the time to tell us what you think about the case that opportunity comes at the end of the hearing please be careful as how you phrase your questions they should not be proceeded with a statement about the case but should be a direct question to the witness also before you ask your questions please clearly state your name spell your last name provide your address this is important that a court reporter be able to he to keep a clear and accurate public record after all Witnesses have been heard members of the audience have their second opportunity to speak and at that time you may Express your opinion positive or negative about the application then the public hearing is closed and we enter into executive session where board members discuss the case and then vote you will be able to listen to our executive session but will not normally be able to participate in our discussion I ask that each applicant and their attorney if present come up and give give a brief synopsis their anticipated testimony tonight including the number of witnesses and whether or not they can finish their presentation within 30 minutes all right and tonight we will begin with 47 Oakland Place good evening Mr chairman members of the board James Weber on behalf of the applicants this is a request to adjourn this uh in order to have a full board available to hear this matter understood April 21st ises that work that works okay great and waving the time frame to act we do and I assume requesting to carry without further notice that's correct all right excellent can I get a motion to carry this case to the 21st so move make a motion get a second second all right Stephanie Mr Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes Mr Malay yes Mr Chuli yes m Mr nering yes chairman lyit yes the motion carries see you on April 21st Mr thank you okay so our second and final case of the evening Oak no school good evening uh Hillary s from Dempsey Dempsey and Shen representing the applicant Oak School of the holy Child Inc regarding property located at 44 Blackburn Road and 72 Prospect Street block 3103 Lots 2 and3 in the R15 Zone um as a quick recap from the last hearing oakal school is an existing permitted conditional use that has been located at this site for 100 years the school is an inherently beneficial use and is protected under the religious land use and institutionalized persons Act of 2000 at the last hearing the board heard from Jennifer Landis the head of school Ralph Rosenberg the architect and Dan Chanel the civil engineer at the at that hearing there were questions and some concerns raised over the proposed new erass on Blackburn road so the school and their team have worked on the plan since that hearing to address those comments and concerns resulting in a redesign of the parking area that will use the existing entrance and exit on Blackburn Road um eliminate the previously proposed egress driveway and will result in an additional 10 spaces on site for a total of 31 new spaces where 21 were previously proposed uh Dan chanal is here tonight to discuss this redesign and answer any outstanding questions from the last hearing followed by Craig Parago the traffic engineer Marlo roller the landscape architect um and concluding with John Barry the plan and for the record I just want to note that the applicant did receive the fire chief's report after the last hearing um and agrees to comply with that report as a condition of approval so if there's no other questions for me I will call the first witness and miss this exhibit will be submitted or has been submitted toh it will be submitted yes in his testimony spoke oh you did okay then it's already been okay not sure which number it is is this the rendered site plan okay so that is I think it's A2 exhibit A2 okay great thank you so the first witness is Dan Chanel uh good evening again chairman members of the board uh Daniel chanal principal of the firm Dynamic engineering um I understand that I'm still under oath and my license is uh still in good standing put on the record um and just just to confirm for the record you were previously sworn at the last hearing you remain under oath yes that's correct my life s is uh still in good standing um so just referring back a quick recap on the last hearing uh the exhibit that's uh up on the screen right now this is exhibit A2 it's the rendered overall site plan essentially the same as sheet four within the site plan package so this is what we spoke of the last hearing this is the uh the what at that that point was essentially the proposed uh parking lot located behind M Hall U so it was a parking lot with 19 new parking spaces it lost uh three parking spaces with the driveth through that would kind of cut through and access and uh as you heard in the recap we did previously propose this driveway back out to um Blackburn which would be a one-way exit only driveway um so understanding some of the neighbors concerns uh that were brought up in the last meeting we're essentially now uh looked and came up with a new concept to eliminate this driveway U so with the loss of this driveway um those three parking paring spaces that would be eliminated on the street uh that can only be used when the school is closed those will no longer be lost uh on top of that we'll no longer be seeking a light spill variance because there will be no need to illuminate that driveway so no more light spilling over the property um and we'll also be maintaining that existing uh hedge row of mature vegetation that that exists on a portion of the frontage there uh since that driveway is no longer needed um so the next exhibit that I'll share is something the board has not seen yet and it is our proposed essentially redesign of this parking area U I believe this would be A3 um so this is exhibit A3 it's entitled site plan B exhibit 1 with a date of uh okay it's just uh January uh 29th 2025 so essentially what this shows is a zoomed in portion of the site and now a redesigned parking area behind M Hall what you see here is the highlighted spaces where essentially the spes that are new in comparison to what exists so on that previous exhibit there's those four existing parking spaces that are head in fronting on Blackburn and we previously had that driveway that went back out to Blackburn so essentially what we did is we took a look um at that existing driveway that provided access into our new parking area we widened that a little bit so it went from 18 ft to 24 ft in width that's this Dimension here and what that allows you to do is essentially provide enough room uh behind head-in parking spaces for cars to be able to back out so we expanded that to 24 ft and essentially look to just continue this row of parking that fronted along Blackburn so we went from those four spaces to now we have 18 spaces that front along that roadway and then we look to then wrap this parking lot around to essentially match that previous layout um to provide another uh what's this 12 parking spaces plus another two on this access way so previously uh with the way that you entered this driveway switching back to rendering A2 essentially just one way access into this no way to get back out um to the existing parking area unless you went out to Blackburn um a little bit of a funky layout uh with this it I feel flows a lot better under proposed conditions you have that 24t wide access you have that full um row of parking in the front it flows a lot better than existing conditions um and it actually gets us to gain an additional 10 spaces from what we previously proposed um in addition this now complies with the uh the parking setback from Blackburn Road allows us to maintain that existing hedge row and provide a minimum of of 31 ft of of buffer area in front of those parking spaces so they'll you'll see on our landscape rendering how well um these parking spaces will be hidden um so the previous proposed lot added 16 Ned 16 new parking spaces in this area of the site under proposed conditions we're now looking at 20 26 parking spaces in this area so that's 10 additional spaces off the street and onto the site from what we previously proposed uh which offers a uh further benefit to the neighbor Neighbors uh so to recap under existing conditions as a site exists today there's a 140 parking spaces on site and now with this new uh laid out parking area as well as the several uh new spaces Elsewhere on the site we're now up to 171 parking spaces on site so that would be a grand total of 31 less parked vehicles on the street while uh class is in session essentially going from 65 Park spaces on the on the streets to 34 so almost cutting it in half uh so I see that as a really good uh benefit to the community uh taking nearly half the the spaces that we use on the street now putting them on the site um these spaces as previously testified will match the existing size and striping on the site um and we're also providing now a new walkway at the head of the northernmost spaces that will provide direct pedestrian access from this new parking lot to the rear of mahe Hall as well as tie into the existing walkway uh throughout the remainder of the um campus this new layout does result in a slight increase in lock coverage from what we previously testified to uh it's an additional 2900 Square ft so on the grand scheme of things it's only an additional 6% uh on the overall walk going from 46% in perious surface coverage a proposed for the last hearing up to 46.6 so as a result of this uh we'll also be increasing the storm water management designed to account for the additional parking square footage while still exceeding both the city and state storm water uh management qu quantity reduction requirements the entirety of the new lot will be perious pavement so essentially you can see it's hard to see in this screen but there's this dot hatch that essentially outlines and delineates the proposed perious pavement whereas the previous uh design essentially only half of the new parking area was perious pavement so not only are we adding more impervious surface coverage um which results in a little bit more storm waterer runoff we are uh increasing the size of the storm waterer management system that we previously had proposed in the there to not only account for that additional impervious but also exceed the requirements um so again in my opinion that'd be even a further benefit uh to the neighbors um I think that essentially highlights the the main changes that we really wanted to go over um but Hillary if I missed anything please let me know you got it all more than happy any questions from the board questions any let's let's have the board professionals ask questions and we'll ask um the um I'm just thinking about Headlights going across the street um I don't know is that something maybe I should be asking a landscape she has a rendering yep she has a rendering but this uh this shrub row uh there is is pretty tall and mature which you'll see on that rendering and also where these head and parking spaces are the grade dips down um off the top of my head I'd say about an average of 3 feet so even with just the grade alone the cars parked head in in there um I think there's not going to be much of an impact past the property line of of those uh of the cars park there so um where are the are the lights on this area now so we didn't update our lighting design yet this is an exhibit but I'm confident that there would be uh no exceedances over the property line of the maximum ailable um I see you have a small like Hammerhead down at the end just to help people back out of their out of those end spots yep down here yep so cars backing out have enough room to essentially turn around and uh and exit the parking a lot the same way they came back in our traffic expert will talk circulation but essentially this is two-way circulation um around this existing parking area versus where we only had one oneway proposed could you talk a little bit more about um how you're going to alleviate the parking that is on the street now I know you're taking them off the street and putting them in the parking lot but is that just creating more space on the street so people can park or is there something that can be done to make sure that those spaces that were on the street are not going to be taken up by yep no I I understand and um as you heard from from the operations of the school uh earlier on there's only a certain amount of students that are essentially permitted to drive to campus um and they're not anticipating increasing enrollment um increasing the allowances of of maybe Juniors to drive that wouldn't be allowed um and the number of employees that they have here today are anticipated to you know stay the same um so really we just saw it as a net reduction of the amount of cars that they have parked the Street and now bring them on site and freeing up additional space for the neighbors and and again our our traffic expert kind of has a parking exhibit which then delineates the number of spaces in each area of the lot and kind of talk through that a little bit more as well I think that's all I have okay a few questions uh with regard to your testimony you were saying that the increase in purose coverage is 2900 Square F feet yes sir okay and that that increases the total to 46.6% still needing a variance correct slight slightly more um any tree removal in this area that is a good question our landscape architect does have tree removal calculations and and how many she's proposing so we can address that shortly thank you SL disturbance any further steep SL disturb um that is a good question as well uh in this area particularly I don't think we identified any steep slopes um but they if they are being disturbed uh we'll make sure to quantify that uh the steep slope disturbances are really associated with the Connelly Hall and tisdel Hall um I think there were some small bands but you might have been grading those areas anyway in the prior design something for you to take a look at AB sum of what that would be thank you mention thank you so there's no other changes to your storm water basin design other than the perious P that's correct just expanding it uh we didn't fully rerun the the numbers and the calculations but with the uh increase in impervious surface coverage in comparison to the increase the size of the Basin we know that will not only offset that increase but uh further exceed our reductions thanks questions from the board go ahead how much you last last uh episode was asked how much you exceeded the requirements did you do that calculation uh yeah so overall for the entire area of the site we are essentially 21% below uh what's permitted to essentially run off the site the runoff rates is what we look at volume is not something that is U is mandated by the state or or local government so we look at rates essentially how quickly the the storm water leaves the site so we are 21% below uh the maximum permitted under proposed conditions okay thank you absolutely so for someone who's not an expert on water runoff what does that mean so essentially the state uh there there's three main storms that we have to design to it's a 210 100e design storms both for current and future projected rainfall rates so current future projected is a year 2100 rainfall rates that they would project um significantly higher than current rainfall rates and we have to meet um reductions for each one of those storms so for example the uh two-year storm we need to reduce to the the rate so the runoff rate uh 50% of the existing so whatever the existing flow rate is leaving the site under existing conditions we have to cut that in half is the maximum uh permitted to leave under proposed conditions and then for the uh 10year storm we have to reduce that by uh 25% and the 100e storm we have to reduce that by 20 so essentially combining all those uh storms and looking at as a single per percentage uh against the regulations it is 21% below um what we are permitted to uh discharge from the site under proposed conditions tried to make it a littlear so um so I think they're allowed up to a certain percentage and they're going to be 21% under what they're allowed to run off percentages like like 21% 21% how many gallons how many so I know I know like d me I can't let anyone run off my property of my house just can't do not allowed to do it so I don't pay my driveway it sinks into the ground so you're kind of doing that here but you're throwing these percentages out there but that I don't quite I don't know if the public understands it because I know I don't yeah so so when you look at storm water as a whole so a lot of people think volume they think quantity but when you're dealing with especially a site like this that has high Bedrock um water is not able to get back into the ground um either way so it sits there and it runs off the site so with that in mind how does this impervious pavement work so the impervious pavement is a system that's designed uh that allows the the water to seep through the pavement there's there's larger voids in the pavement meaning water can get through it and then there's a large essentially Stone bed below the pavement that stone bed again has has voids in it so storm water is able to be held in that big uh essential pile of of stone dry it's a large dry a large drywall exactly and then we have a out control structure which is essentially just a manhole with a series of different um holes in the wall and as the storm water elevation Rises within that stone storage bed it starts to seep out through different holes so the LGE the smaller storm event has a real small hole to go through so that gets held back and releases a lot slower and then these bigger storm events come up that storm water the Basin fills up a little bit more and maybe it'll hit that next hole in the uh in the wall to allow a little bit more storm water out so that rate goes up that it discharges a little bit quicker for the larger storm events but still less than under existing add conditions so essentially it's it's it's again it goes back to the analogy of of kind of looking at either a big traffic jam or even you know a bag of water with a hole in it with a uh little tiny hole only a little bit of water comes out once and a bunch is being held back in the bag or if you just turn the bag upside down and dump it all out that's essentially be be no control so essentially we're we're creating a a a vessel um to hold back this storm water and release it at a slower weight rate to allow the infrastructure Downstream of the site to be able to get that big first flush of the storm where they might not have the capacity to convey additional storm water we're now holding that on our site for a longer period of time allowing those pipes to essentially clear out and we release it over a longer period of time and it's 21% that's under you're 21% under what's allowed correct is that just for the new pavement and the the building construction as well that is for the any area of site that we no not the entire site but any area that we disturb so essentially any area on the site that we disturb we are required to uh manage the storm order for that site so for those disturbance areas we're 21% below what the state or the local government would allow us to release thank you so following question what about the entire site the entire site we don't look at the entire site as a whole again you're only looking at those areas that you disturb um so that the rest of the site will continue to drain as it currently does today um we don't need to further reduce those as we're not disturbing them so no change for that but could you give us that number just so for our edification as to what you're what we're going to have as a final result for the whole property for the whole property so so again that the areas that are we going to be over or under and if so by how much you're still going to be under by existing and it would be that 21% below what would be permitted under proposed conditions soing but what about the gross number correct so that that gross number is going to remain unchanged existing versus proposed and what is that what is that gross number I I couldn't tell you off top of my head we'd have to analyze the entire site we're obviously not finishing tonight perhaps you could look it up and tell us yeah but it's it's not going to change as far as the the um that the impact to the neighborhood it makes it better either way for what we're proposing so we're still reducing and it's a benefit when compared to existing conditions because there's less storm water leaving the site as quickly as it does today let me go on to a different subject if I may parking uh when you testified before I believe you said that the new parking lot was going to be utilized by faculty and so we'd have experienced drivers that wouldn't have a problem with the smaller than normal parking spaces what are the new parking spaces going to be used by that's so th this is proposed for visitor and employees um but there are additional spaces on site in other areas that are going to be used um where you can bring more students on site and those are going to be the same size that current students are already that that already Park on site will be was there any consideration of perhaps taking one or two less parking spaces ated and giving students The Wider parking spaces that new drivers need it's a good question I mean our our consideration was getting as many vehicles that are parked on the road off the road and into the site to essentially benefit the community as a whole 6 in in a parking space is if you were to pull into one of these parking spaces I'm sure that you wouldn't be able to tell if it's a n space 9 foot Space by versus an 8 and 1 half foot space 6 in in a parking space is is very minute I understand what you're saying if again we're adding 10 more spaces than what we previously proposed if the size of the parking space is is that much of a concern losing a couple spaces to make them wider I don't think I'd have an issue with that either but I don't think you're going to see much of a difference honestly in my professional opinion is 6 in in the size of a parking space go outside and look at the car that's parked next to me is it my truck and we have a full full full parking lot I think it also depends to um where the other spaces are located so you know the other spaces that are on site might be being reallocated these specific ones what they going to be used for employees and visitors so sorry I I think we might have touched on this at the last hearing but you just remind me again what's preventing you from can you're building a brand new parking space here why wouldn't you connect it to the smaller Carriage House parking and then get some relief from Blackburn and have some exiting on to lnet again it was just uh one they that the prior resolution that didn't allow us to use that driveway we wanteded to make sure that we weren't essentially changing the flow and the way the site works today um and just provide additional space off the off the site I mean we but but there is an option if the board would prefer yes you know we do have that option that we could show you if you'd like to see it we would like to see it okay thank you all right so then my next exhibit would essentially be exhibit A4 yes so this uh is exactly what you were asking about is essentially now extending the end of that parking area um to provide access back out to I'm sorry not on the prospect although I'm glad you're showing us this so the board can see it my next question I'm saying connect what you're proposing here and just keep going alarid right you already have parking spots in front of the carriage house right is that correct that's correct and curve cut onto late existing that's correct okay so I'm asking why not just because the neighbors were not yeah discussed with the neighbors yes that was discussed with understood so okay so this is this is the proposed solution then this is another option right to provide another to provide another way out of that and was this discussed with the neighbors and what was there there this was just discussed at our previous hearing because it was brought up concerns why not just you know extend the driveway uh from M to that new parking area that's you're moving it from one one public thorough far to another which I I mean that will your will your traffic expert testify as to whether or not this will provide relief to Blackburn okay great any other questions um this 6 of a percent like what is that that's got a question oh I'm sorry go ahead oh I'm sorry no worries I wasn't here at the last meeting so I forgive me for bringing this up I just occurred to me as I looked at the plans this evening or ear today could you go over to the storm water basin that's proposed so this is referring back now to exhibit uh a2re the exit movement for access into and out of that Bas seems to be fighting the greatest to me it seems to be kind of trying to go back uphill and then you're going uphill and great is there any way of um if you were to zoom in where your label is there a big white square is there any way of coming out uh 90 degrees towards the the school itself thereby reducing any disturbance on that I guess that's the East Westerly side of the Bas yeah I mean what I'm saying that's that's a good question we could certainly take a look at that but uh we were essentially working with the grade and using that almost as a little bit of a Swale to kind of catch the storm water that is further uh to the East and directed towards our Basin I didn't know if you can save more trees or add more buffering on that side because I know your landscape architect will be coming out to discuss this that they had more area in that location they could potentially buffer the adjacent homes little so there is um additional Landscaping proposed in that area which she'll testify to based on comments from those Neighbors okay because you have only 10t there that's why I was trying to get a little bit more room if you had room um but I'm not an engineer so that's why I probably ask that question understood Mr nson yeah so um back to my question the 6% is 2900 square feet yes sir okay now I'm glad you brought this bio retention thing up is there a way to run that to the per the pervious the new pervious material that's installed so it can drain into that and not so much uh to the city's sewer uh storm system because doesn't this all drained to the city storm system including the perious Basin oh they they do as well yeah there's no infiltration capabilities on the site based on our testing corre anyone else all right questions from the public for this witness questions only please got someone there [Music] are you um Eric nicely e r i n i e l y um I've got some your address sir 56 Blackburn Road thank you um I've got probably a lot of specific questions but that's probably because we've been through this and we have 12,000 gallons worth of water tanks up above so just be patient as why I ask the questions so the what I call the pond or you call it a retaining well is it collecting water just from the additions to the gym or is it collecting water from all of the gym and also from the parking lots to be able to get to the coverage that they ask or is this just you're covering the piece that's been added or disturbed as the appropriate terms are to find for for which Basin the the above ground one we were just I I was mainly talking the one behind the gym but I'm just trying to understand a little bit because the destuction of Disturbed was generally you had to catch the hundred-year storm based upon what's Disturbed not based on what's already there and if your prior approvals were close to the threshold even though you say it will be better than it was it's still not going to be to 21 is my my question but I'm not trying to get to that I'm just trying to ask you where is the water being collected from that runs into that pond yep both the open space area that's essentially uh surrounding or we're further to the south of this addition uh the roof area from the addition and portion of the existing building okay so you've capturing it as much as you can because this p in order to pump you can't really pump the water because of the grade on the rest of the property correct so you basically what you're trying to do is overcompensate by putting the water collection on the existing roof as well to be able to compensate for the water that you can't necessarily correct on okay just trying to make sure I understand um what's going on um the next question has to do with the the parking spaces and has and I know you talked about it won't drip light into the road the new or the new layout the new layout but will there be parking lights in the parking lot in addition to the ones that are already in the parking lot yes so for this new parking area that's directly behind M that will be lit again is it possible to have those outfitted with either motion sensors or turn some of them on and off at certain times of night when they're not in theory being utilized I don't want people not to be safe but I also just worry that it does seem like it's getting fairly bright in the neighborhood um if we leave them on all the time I'm not saying you can't have some of them I'm just saying it might might be nice to do something yeah no I I I certainly agree um that's a good suggestion we can uh discuss that with operations there's ways that these lights can either be dimmed at certain hours of the night or some of them can be turned out off um I I don't think that would be an issue okay and they can also be shielded right yes absolutely okay thank you thank you other questions from the audience this might be hi Rebecca Morano 80 Prospect Street um I'm not sure if if you can answer this or maybe the Headmaster but um the Juniors aren't allowed to park but they do up and down the street in the spring how are you going to keep them from there'll be extra spots on but I'm concerned that it's not going to impact the amount of cars that are still going to be on the street and I am in fact happy when those girls are parking in front of my house I not upset about that but I don't I'm wondering how you're going to be able to control the amount of kids that Park um outside of the school when they're not allowed to park in the school because I know it happens all the time so we in fact just address that yes yes uh so we've become aware that more and more of them were're doing that which kind of makes sense with as the year goes on more of them have 17th birthdays and get their licenses and so forth and many of the parents are very happy for them to be able to start driving but we have uh last week and then again today met with the entire Junior and senior classes re uh confirming with them what our policies and procedures are uh saw a huge Improvement today uh in kind of reinforcing this is what the policy is this is what our handbook says this is what you signed um and Communications are going out to them again to reinforce that and just can you just say what that policy is oh yes that that uh juniors are not to drive to school until May one uh when our seniors are on their Capstone projects so Juniors can start they can ask permission to drive to campus or drive to school on May because that's when um our senior class is on a you know monthlong project how will you actually Implement that well we do our best so we have our security team we have our our Dean actually did A Walk about today um to do that we you know get our eyes on what we can now it's not possible for us to kind of canvas the totality of the neighborhood but we do our best to kind of keep an eye on the areas that are close to school that are likely places for them to do that and then we have our meetings with them and call them to task and get them to understand what the poliy is thank you you're welcome hi um Brad Olson 64 Blackburn I'm going to follow up on the same line of questioning so I'll save some for him um in a minute but um do you know how many oh he he stay his that no she hasn't I'm sorry what do you mean the witness has not identified herself oh oh Jennifer land is head of school openal school she's still smart right okay I think everybody else um uh do you know how many um parking spots are how many cars park from uh due to Oak no on the uh the streets currently streets I do think we have that calcul yes see 65 existing drivers 65 how do you how did you calculate that um based on the number of employees and the number of student drivers and the number of visitors we hit to drivers it's not it's not based on any sort of survey like I don't think anybody actually count walked nobody's gone out and counted wouldn't that be appropriate thing for I I don't know how some to do when they coming know that they were from Oak I mean other people could be parking they don't have necessarily a sticker on their car that you know yeah I mean my house keer could park but she's there for two hours like so like uh but what do you give hang tags to um the students our students who are permitted to drive so we'd be able to to survey them but uh other cars um I wouldn't necessarily know if they were it could be a parent who's visiting briefly and then leaving or or someone else so if I could just interject do you want to just wait on that question till the traffic engineer presents and he might be able to answer you better on that question yeah yeah um uh because basically I'm I'm interested to un understand and what will be the impact on the reduction of from what building but I'll save that for thank you um uh while while I have you I don't know if this question was asked so apologies um if it was covered um but uh how much in taxes does 72 Prospect currently pay you know we did get that calculation do you have it in front of you Hillary I I I can get that for you this evening but I don't have it is it about 52,000 that's what Zillow says AB okay I don't want to confirm what will happen to when you Annex it what will happen to that taxt I can't become part of you have to go through a whole process so we just don't you don't I don't know do you currently pay property taxes does currently pay property taxes I don't know the answer to that question I'm not their taxer of course not so the assume that the 52,000 will go away uh and the city will no longer earn that 52,000 that's if you Annex it yes that's likely and as it was when we when we did own that property for many years uh and I'll just remind the board that taxation of the properties is irrelevant for our purposes thank you so the um let me ask ask you a question we don't consider taxation as whether the relief can be granted to this application is that a a separate approval that needs to be done by the Town Council or I mean because you're going to be by essentially you're saying this board this uh zoning board could give away property taxes without any consideration for the impact on the financial property meets an exemption that would go through the tax assessor and that that's how it applies but for we cannot consider that on the you know the weighing of this application and the criteria that the board is tasked with reviewing from a zoning perspective okay so like if they wanted to Annex 15 properties that accounted for 750 of taxes my answer stands you would not consider that impact on the city we cannot and there's no is there a process to consider that outside of the zoning board or maybe I should you'd have to apply to be tax exempt so you have to meet certain requirements well you're all that's already the case with okova but not this specific piece of property would have to go through that same process so somebody would review it I think we're drifting away from question and into commentary let's stick to questions please those are all questions but um I will get back to this I understand um so uh for the thank you Jennifer um so um are you familiar with the flooding that uh already occurs down from lard um I've heard about it um witnessed it you haven't witnessed it okay um the so there's already a significant negative impact in that area and um part of it um must be contributed by Oak null um the additional 6% lock coverage you're going to go up um do you have an understanding of how much that will impact the flooding of that area I can tell you it'll be reduced because we're exceeding our storm water management requirements you're exceeding it in which area so my question follow to nicely's earlier was you have the catch Basin all the way on the other side of the property which is nowhere near where the flooding areas are it all goes in the same direction down stream so will what gets routed to that catch Basin is it just the Tisdale or is it from other areas within the property uh as I mentioned in the previous uh neighbor it's capturing a portion of the Overland flow near that Basin as well as a new re roof area as well as a portion of existing T Hall okay but doesn't capture anything from anything I guess that's east of Tisdale Hall is that correct correct it would be North yeah North okay which is where you know all that that property runs down towards lard in that direction whereas the major flooding so I don't know how you can say it'll be reduced when the catch basin's all the way on the other side of the property all of the storm water makes its way to the Salt Brook that is north of this site so how that storm water gets there it's it's going through the conveyance Network throughout the city and discharges to that existing salt Brook so we're capturing the storm water that's generated by our area of new Improvement movement we're capturing it we're holding it within a detention base and we're releasing it at a slower rate so it's a um it's a benefit to the existing City's infrastructure as we're now holding more of that storm water on site and releasing it slower as that big first flush goes through those pipes okay um understood um so you're saying the catch Basin also flows down to the Salt Brook correct that the whole site drains ultimately to the Salt Brook okay um sorry oh the catch Basin itself is it cap does that counted against lock coverage the pervious pavement basins are the above ground bio retention Basin is not because it is landscaped because so even though the the basin's in the parking lot the perious pavement even though they're technically perious they still count as lot coverage by the way the ordinance so we do account but the catch BAS doesn't no it's open space so that's that's still it's landscape area it's yeah it's open space to catch other water that's being routed there but it that doesn't take up the BL coverage correct per City definition okay okay thank you thank you other questions for this witness Ellen Becker 92 Prospect we're doing the the pervious pavement right and when we're talking our runoff rates the the way that goes over there that would be different than if you calculated it if you were just had like let's say a traditional asphalt pavement right no that we we still calculate like the runoff coefficients and everything exactly the same but is a runoff coefficient between the pervious pavement and let's say just straight up a good old fashioned asphalt base with just your asphalt cover that's that's the same let's call it matriculation factor it's the dead same yeah so you still get the same runoff rate between pervious pavement versus a a straight asphalt pavement correct but everything's being captured in the perious P it's not running off anywhere so how is the runoff rate the same between and a like if we just paved it with just concrete right and we did a broom finish on it and then we put pervious pavement the runoff would be the same between those two surfaces yeah technically just gets to the Basin quicker so the runoff rate is affected if something gets there quicker the rate is affected no because we're looking at the rates Downstream essentially where we're tying back into the existing infrastructure of the city but not on the actual pavement itself well all that's included within our storm waterer calculations so you know open space area is calculated differently but for the you know the rules that we follow essentially pervious pavement is treated the same exact way that regular asphalt pavement would be it's actually a a method of being more conservative than if it was to be considered a lower coefficient like something so it does matter between what your surface is that does affect the runoff rate previously it just said it does not matter the previous pavement does give you different runoff rate obviously because you have less stuff Gliding Over the top of it than if you just did a real tight concrete finish right be slower I'm saying our design technically it would be slower very yes yes very conservative it's more conservative by using it as a solid by equating it the same as normal pavement so the if you switched over the it wouldn't matter so why bother going to the prvious pavement if it doesn't affect your if it doesn't affect anything to do with the parking lot why not just go with the good oldfashioned cheap asphalt pavement because this is a green infrastructure best management practice for storm water management it's a way of yes we're Paving the lot but it's still pervious and we're using that as a way to not only meet the storm water requirements for the new pavement that we're adding but also a benefit to the rest of the site because it does affect the way the water either metric or they're using rates or just pure gallons there's some difference between the perious pavement and just good oldfashioned concrete right the perious pavement we can use as a basin regular concrete we cannot so it is there is a big difference between using the two right yes okay all right that's great and then I think last time we talked about the you know lifespan of this Perth payment it has pores in it it needs to be treated right we have to treat those and what is your in your professional opinion of a parking lot at a 5% slope like we talked about last time what's the expected lifetime of that effectiveness of the perious pavment before it has to be you know before it works not just to become asphalt it's a great question it all comes down to wear and tear how often it's it's driven on best guess five years I'd say 10 to 20 years so it's possible in 10 years we're if it's not maintained proper they could be less than that right again as I mentioned at the previous year question it could be less than that if if not properly maintained right yes but we are required again to provide a maintenance manual that is deed to the property that the owner is then responsible for maintaining and ensuring the way that these fair enough fair enough okay so yes if there's issue with the pavement and it's not functioning the way it should be it would be on Oak to replace that to make sure they still comply with their storm management system for the life of the system it it lives with the property no matter who the owner is thank you very much absolutely can I ask you a real quick question sure how do you know it's not working uh if there's no water getting through it there's there's specific tests um that are required to make sure that there's um you know ility through the system question how often those tests performed uh so the the the maintenance manual that we will have to submit we need to do quarterly uh inspections to make sure it's functioning um or after major uh rain events um but if there is an issue that you know the neighbors mention or anything like that they have ability to to contact the city and and that's why we make sure that that on andm gets deed and is uh recorded with the county and un file so that there's always responsible party um that is you know required to make sure that their system is function the way it should be thank you we did retain jurisdiction right I believe so did we not retain jurisdiction for two years yes noted the last time reminding people that we have and the applicant has agreed to having the uh the city retain granted jurisdiction for two years correct hi um Isabelle Rogers 92 Prospect Street quick question about lighting I know you guys you don't have the plan yet um first question is what is shielding mean shielding essentially means shielding the glare from the picture so you cannot see essentially the direct source of light and it can also mean Shield shielding it so that light doesn't spill in a direction that you don't want it to go so that's part of the actual like light insulation yes okay these are LED fixtures so they're they're full cut off meaning that if you're standing you know eye level with the fixture you can't see the source of lighting so it doesn't they're they're what's also called dark sky compliant meaning that they don't shine light up in the air cause more light pollution um and each one of those little LED diodes that's in the light you can control them individually to make sure that the light is directed in the way that you want it to go a lot more efficient and um better than you know those old metal Highline type fixtures so these are high-tech LED very controllable um and a much more efficient design than older Styles okay um what in your soon to be plan for the lighting what is the um set standard is it that 0.1 foot candle um that for the the maximum the city allows at the property line um there's different standards for the different types of uses so like a normal residential use you might see a 0.5 uh but for a commercial use like this um you normally want something uh usually the low side at 0.1 foot candles all the way up to as high as five um we at the hottest point I believe in our last design was was about five I think it was s that's your last design was that no that the highest level I'm saying exceeded that I think it was in five range not was spilling off seven was the variance that we were looking for of the spillage that won't uh be proposed is there Zoning for interior is there like a regulation for interior lighting um I'm not sure if the city has set standards yes there are lighting standards that we need to comply with I think the color temperature the the height correct things like that um but typically the standard for uh lighting intensities throughout the site goes based on the use and it's based upon the um lighting Institute um you know would it be what I assume it would match what currently is there in the other parking lots so the extremely bright area all when it's from Sundown to Sunrise if you don't have these answers now I'd love to right now or will these be better I don't think all the fixtures are LED right now these absolutely will be and our intended the ordinance yes and our intent is not to make this look like you know a stadium it's going to be the the lowest level of lighting that is allowed for a residential or institution commercial use and institutional use so that's the difference it's commercial versus residential right in the yeah okay so that's okay but again we will you know commit to complying with the city ordinance for for this use for commercial or for residential this is a commercial use so we okay and those are vastly different correct the ordinance I want say vastly would love to know the difference between residential ordinance and Commercial ordinance onling hello Nick papis 96 Prospect Street so I have a question on this shielding shielded lights you said at I level you don't see the glare but oakn is significantly higher than the surrounding properties especially on Prospect Street and down to lnet so if we look up we're going to see the glare I mean if you're lower than any light you you'll see the click right so the shielding really essentially doesn't help when it's one of the highest points in the neighborhood the shielding is for making sure you don't exceed light levels at the proper L and that's what we'll comply with so my property looks in from my backyard into Oak null I can see every single one of the lights clear as day they're elevated above me that will not change except there will be more in the future correct because the shielding won't help the fact that I'm 20 feet below right do you know if they've upgraded the light on is it MAV Hall too in the front because it just seems not no yeah it seems like it might have been at a normal standard and it's incredibly glaring now brighter than any of the Summit Street lights in the neighborhood yes yep so we don't have the lighting plan the landscape you said that on the on the Blackburn side where the parking lot will face out there's a mature hedro there we can clearly see cars coming in and out of it will there be plans to make that denser to fill in the gaps a big piece the the landscape architect is going to testify after the traffic engineer okay and she can answer that question for you then no other questions thanks thank you not seeing any other questions for this witness Hillary you want to bring up your next witness sure can I ask you a real quick question sure would Oak n be um open to say reducing the number of lights that are on after a certain time is that something that they would consider say say you know if it's I I think depending on safety yeah you know obviously you have to have lights on certain lights at all times for safety reasons well I'm telling exterior lights in the parking lot I mean I drove through there yesterday I I am sure that that they can look at the lights that they have on and evaluate which ones can be maybe turned off at certain times it's not a problem it doesn't like this again there still detected still when you're ready Mr Ball's going to swear you in back old school way again do you want to be sworn yeah we can at least do that if you could please raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes it is please state your name spell your last name sure my name is Craig Parago p r e g o y thank you and I know you've appeared before us a number of times including relatively recently but if you could please just uh remind the board and the audience of your background and qualifications sure uh I have a bachelor's degree in civil engineering from Virginia Tech I'm a licensed professional engineer in New Jersey I testify pretty much on a nightly basis as an expert in traffic including here in Summit recently any questions from the board we'd like to accept them once again we'll accept you once again welcome back okay um what were you requested to do in Your Capacity as traffic engineer in regard to this application yeah we were initially brought in to look at this project in 2023 in the springtime and the development program was still a little bit unknown and the school year was coming to an end so we went out there and collected traffic counts made a lot of observations and did a lot more than probably we would need to do with what's happening here which is good because we have that information uh available um typical of any other school that we do a lot of work for schools typically of any typical of any school you have about a half an hour in the morning at the drop off time and a half an hour at the evening uh at the pickup when there's a lot of activity and then for the rest of the day uh it's pretty quiet they do a really good job like I said we've done a lot of schools and made observations they do a pretty good job with that process here the difference that I see at this school that you don't often see is the number of vehicles parked on the street so this application is obviously uh addressing thatone excellent um and I think you already touched on what what you've done site inspections uh reviewed the ordinance traff accounts things like that yes um again we went in the spring of 2023 we were out there uh Wednesday April 19th Thursday April 27th and Wednesday May 3rd collecting all this data in anticipation of maybe a a wholesale change to the way this project I didn't know exactly what we were going to come out with as you heard from the prior testimony we're not changing the staff not changing the number of students so really that that that half an hour in the morning and half an hour in the evening it's not going to be any different than it is today it's going to continue to uh as it operates today but what is going to improve again is is the part working and I think that's really the kind of the unique feature of this particular school but just since I bothered to actually count and collect the data I'll give you the information if I look at based on the enrollment at the time um when we did the counts in Spring of 2023 if I look at with the it The Institute of Transportation Engineers projects that's what we usually use so if they were going to come in and build this school from the ground up this was all Woods we were building the school I would use it to project how much traffic they're about 30% less traffic generation at this location than the it would suggest so that tells me that the things that they're doing to limit the traffic are working robust before and after school programs they they shuttle some students to the train station uh they have the the registration and the limitation on the number of student drivers all those things kind of keep traffic to a minimum and that and that bears out in the numbers again those would be a lot more relevant if we were talking about a change in the student population or redoing the access or new uh parking Fields but this is a much more uh um simplistic Improvement in terms of the traffic impacts but I thought the information was good to have and it'll help us as the school moves forward uh you know if they if they uh plan on any other uh improvements or things like that but uh obviously the parking here is the focus you you've heard the testimony uh from the prior Witnesses we're increasing the number of spaces uh on site by 31 there's 140 striped parking spaces now um there is the ability for 37 additional spaces in that that section I guess I got to walk over to the exhibit now I'm low Tech so this is the exhibit A2 yes A2 uh this wide open area here for if they have events but that's where uh uh recess is during the day so those aren't striped parking spaces used on a daily basis but there is that overflow capacity and that was previously approved by this uh by this board um but 140 of the spaces are striped we're going to 171 spaces so that's a plus 31 technically plus 32 the law would say because we are providing an EV space which the state law says counts as two which is kind of irrelevant there's 31 additional stripe spaces legally 32 additional spaces so when you look at the the breakdown of who parks where you heard the prior testimony that there are 65 and just grab this table there are 65 um sorry 61 student drivers and 16 student spaces so immediately there's a discrepancy uh there's 136 staff and only 120 parking spaces for them so that's why you're getting these o this overflow in the street primarily laed Road 40 cars can park along here 16 to 17 along ashin that's where you're seeing that overflow so there'll be 31 less of those those cars park there in the future and importantly I think enough for the entire employee population if you do the math all 136 employees will be able to park on the site there's four visitor spaces now which isn't enough they have 8 to 10 visitors a day so we'll be able to provide the full 10 visitor spaces and get 25 students on uh onto the lot so you will see a 31 parked vehicle reduction along along those frontages which I think is a big benefit um the traffic impact again not going to be changing unless the board and the neighbors uh like this connection to the new parking area to Prospect Street we would not want that to be open for the students or that pick up and drop off time I think that needs to stay the way it is but if the if the board feels from a traffic engineering perspective having an extra access point as a relief valve is is a good thing but I understand from a neighbor's perspective maybe it doesn't look like a house across the street as much anymore if you have more traffic going in and out so we're sort of in different to that and and the school is as well but uh either scenario works and is a big Improvement uh throughout most of the day that half an hour in the morning that half an hour in the evening is not going to change but throughout the rest of the day you're going to see a lot less congestion a lot less traffic on laet and I think that does incrementally improve the traffic impact to a certain degree in that you don't have people trying to parallel park which disrupts traffic you don't have somebody circling around when they can't find a spot so incrementally an anec toally you'd see a little bit of improvement but the big Delta here is the parking getting it off the street let me see what else I wanted to touch on uh I can describe the circulation I mean I'm sure everybody's uh familiar with it but it's essentially divided into the upper school and the lower school the pickup and drop off for the upper school which is off of Blackburn they have a nice long Loop that allows that to occur that's staying the same the school they use the loop in front of uh bonaventura Hall off of uh ashin Road for that pickup and drop off so it segregates the two um it works fairly efficiently again I've seen schools where there are are fairly severe impacts off site there are some here but it's not as bad as I've seen on others again just the parking is the difference and that's what this application is improving just check and make sure I don't have anything else oh the the uh the parking space size is the 8 1 12 by 18 typically for a low turnover parking environment uh industry standards you want an 8 foot three space or bigger so we're a little bit bigger than that the The Wider spaces yeah it makes it a little bit more comfortable but it's more ideal for when you have traffic in and out all day here whether it be student and or staff or visitor they're coming in once and leaving one so you don't have that high amount of activity it's obviously serving the campus now that's the size spaces It's Not Unusual I typically probably your big parking garage here I'm sure they're not full 9 by 18 spaces so it's not it's not something that's necessarily that tight it's it's 6 in it works for a low turnover of parking in my opinion it's better to have more of those parking spaces to pull more of that traffic off the street than to have the wider spaces um and I do think getting rid of the driveway on black burn given the concerns made a lot of sense just seeing if there's anything else to touch on I think that really covers it sorry I'm just going to ask if you could just hit on the variances and then talk about 72 Prospect Street oh sure well the one variance was the the parking space size and the hair pin striping hair pin striping would make a a smaller space feel smaller so I think it makes sense to have the single spaces the other parking Varian is and you'll hear more from the planner have to do with parking in the front yard which is kind of unavoidable because we have all front yards um the additional parking baces that we're putting along Prospect Street they won't be striped but they they're sufficient for being able to park those Vehicles there uh so it'll keep that residential character I think parking in the front yard of a residential home is is fairly common so that makes sense uh in that location for sure um so was the size of the spaces the hair pin striping and the front yard I believe and and how many spaces will be at 72 Prospect Street eight spaces and again that those will not be striped to maintain the residential look and feel of that correct it's it's four in the front so basically similar to a driveway you see there's on the aerial here there's four cars in front of a residential home so that'll stay residential feeling and then in the rear building you have uh three spaces that are farther off the road and one additional space they today just formalizing them so uh all they part of record yes and I think that there's some variances just but they're kind of pre-existing non-conforming spaces so yeah and the plan will go into right the you know those types of things but from the traffic standpoint I think the big ones are the hair pin striping and the size of the spaces and I I certainly think it makes sense for this type of operation and you mentioned that and there is one EV space that is required and being proposed yes which technically gives us an extra space but not in reality I don't have any other questions um do you have any opinion as to whether um the access onto Prospect is a better solution or to leave that closed off from from a traffic impact perspective it's better because you want to disperse the traffic more and you have an extra relief Val is it so much better that it's worth upsetting the residential character of prospect no so I I mean really we have some neighbors here in the audience maybe that you know their opinions I'd be interested in but I don't think it would it would noticeably make things that much better but from a technical from a traffic planning standpoint it's better but when you look at the context of a whole being in a residential neighborhood of school we certainly don't want students going through there so it adds another layer of policing when you add those things that aren't necessarily traffic related I don't know that it makes it worth it to do okay um are the and I don't know if this is you or the school that I should be asking this are the drop off times and the pickup times the same for the upper campus and the lower campus I have that information they're very similar yes but uh the upper school uh drop off is at 810 lower school it's 8:15 and then the upper school ends it's between 250 and and 3:05 it depends on uh the student schedule and the lower school ends at 3:00 so it's really 2:45 to 3:15 in the evening is when you see that that busy time period and is there any um concern about operational um pickup say for queuing out on the roads will there be anything increased from that because of these improvements there won't there is some you start to see that that Q for a very short time wraps wraps around onto larna people are very good at at least the days we were out there not blocking up Ashlin and same on Blackburn not quite so much because they have a much bigger drop off Loop but none of that's going to change with this um that's all I have this just one question uh with regard to the hair pin striping I know you indicated that it's going to make the spaces feel even smaller in my experience correct me traffic engineer but that the hair constructing makes people Park more in the center of the space that that's the intent of it yeah okay do you think that's a benefit here even with an 8 fo6 spas or again it's another thing if you if if you're in a higher turnover environment it might be a benefit but even with herin striping once one guy Parks too far over then it snowballs down the rest of the aisle and thank you questions from board just quick on parking um we had testimony that and you took counts at the notice that some were before May 1st and some were after we had testimony that things change on May 1st now I don't know what that happened in 20123 did you notice that kind of a change and what was it like uh we did in terms of the the volumes going in and out no and in terms of the parking I didn't notice any difference no there were no changes I learned of that change and the Juniors were in yep and I learned of that change after doing the the counts but I certainly it it it's fairly consistent we even noted how many left during the we look at an hourly volume you're looking at peak hours for a school so I I captured how many people leave lned and leave Ashlin during the peak hour obviously they all leave at some point but you know we we really looked into it and it was fairly consistent before after were taken up by the Junior I guess so that came immediately okay any other questions for this witness no all right questions from the audience go ahead no you're up you're up okay the locktop that's used for the parking spots that is used for recess why is that recess why is the could you just restate your your name and address of course I'm um Isabelle Rogers 92 Prospect Street um why do you not use it for parking and instead have recess on the turf we have uh we have recess in both places so we want the children to have the opportunity for field play as well as black top play so um they might be playing basketball or four square or Hopscotch or jump rope on the hardscaping um and then soccer or football or just kind of running around on the turf and couldn't be done on the tennis courts um it can be a little bit but the tennis courts are encumbered by stuff in the middle it's and plus our our littlest ones who are in prek and K it's a it's a bit of a hike for them so to use their their recess time to track across the field to get to a kind of mediocre play Space would not be ideal for their for their play gotcha that's all Alan beer2 Prospect the turf field what is what is played on the turfield currently what what's it used for give me give me a Tuesday on the turfield yeah so it would be our Middle School uh sports program as well as our Junior Royals program which is a third grade through sixth grade um Athletics activity um so pretty much every day there's after school excellent and the turf field is regulation you got to have these dimensions and this these lines in order to participate in said Tuesday afternoon activities on the turf field yes for the sports it is but it's not regulation Siz for varsity and JB Sports so this is just for our Middle School sports okay so any shot of maybe borrowing creating a little black tops so they can Hopscotch and giving back those parking spaces at the lower in the spirit of you know little back and forth yeah um I wish that was possible if you looked at uh kind of where that field is positioned it's it's pretty tight right in there there really isn't discretionary space on kind of any side of it uh to forgive at all but nothing's used regulation wise for it it's not regul for Middle School sports it is it is not for Varsity high school but no nothing could be given there to create a black top corner or something in order to be able to alleviate and have said parking so we don't have to pave up the backyard no there's there's literally no space for that okay I wish there was good evening my name is Kevin Morano at 80 Prospect Street um I was a little confused on the comment about the parking in front of 72 going forward here yeah you can see it's it's it's just showing that two vehicles could park here and two could park here that nothing's changing with that driveway that won't be painted in it's just getting on something to that effect yeah it'll still look the way it does today and obviously lighting is a concern and and we're directly across the street if I saw the again everybody's talking about you know not in my backyard stuff so please excuse me but you know if the light plans are not done yet and it appears to me a number of the cars are going to be pointing directly into my kitchen from where they're parked when when their headlights are on I mean so there is a landscape plan that just hasn't been presented yet okay that she's the next witness oh yeah step ahead of me yeah thank you I'm Eric nicely 56 Blackburn road if you had a clean sheet of paper Within These confines that you're working on and you were putting another 26 cars and only having one exit out in those half hours that you talk about that there's not a way to relieve it is that going to make it worse during those half hours no because the additional spaces are primarily staff spaces especially which would connect the prospect so you know they're going to be arriving not all concentrated at once like the pickup and drop off generally the staff they know when that time is so they're going to come after before depending on their schedule okay so I don't think it would affect the busiest times it would just provide an extra location so they wouldn't have to circulate onto Blackburn but again it's it's a balance is there a slight benefit from a traffic perspective yes but are all the other factors worth it probably prob not okay I was just trying to see if there if you had a change and you thought about it would you rather have an exit Point through Prospect than you would black bur that was just with my blinders on purely as a traffic engineer yes I'd rather have the extra driveway on Prospect but given all the other understand there's other rules that you're you're stuck I'm just asking if you thought it was better enough thank you Rebecca Morano 80 Prospect Street um what year was The Field built before I arrived I arrived in 2014 so was the a variance necessary for that field to be built was there any concern with parking spaces at that time at the school because you have the same amount of people coming and going was there any concern for parking at that time when that field was built I can answer that um Hill I don't know if that's part of I mean I I think there's always been a concern about parking but so parking wasn't addressed when those when those field that have been proposed all of the neighbors oppose every time they had solution what neighbors the lned road neighbors the Prospect Street neighbors nobody wants it in their backyard right so if they keep proposing Solutions there's some group of neighbors that that seem to always have a an issue with whatever is being proposed but every but it was built the the field did not require any variances um and I was not involved so I I can't really tell you there was a grass field there before the tur field so when that tur field was put there it was replacing what was a grass field okay thank you hi Gary woo 45 Blackman Road so I know everybody's saying that ran is not going to increase with your expertise if they increase R by 20% how would that affect traffic the testimony is the enrollment will not increase I know but hypothetically with this expert wi is kind what what what would happen to traffic can I ask that I not allow to ask that question it's hypothetical we're dealing with the application as it's proposed not with you know any number of hypotheticals so then are they guaranteeing that they're not going to increase the enrollment the enrollment I think has been pretty consistent anden yeah we had you know screen en if you could just use a microphone please of course um so the swing of enrollment that we've had over the last um several years we wouldn't exceed that um and that swing if we were to increase by 20 or 30 students for next year let's say they wouldn't be driving students it would be in our younger grades because our our our high school grades are close to our at capacity and we wouldn't exceed that so any driving population would not increase with an increase in enrollment but eventually they will be high schoolers so they will be driving they will but we won't increase the number of students that we would have in our graduating class so we might um not accept as many in a particular grade level because we're already at that capacity we would not exceed that graduation size but you're increasing amount of classrooms so you have more capacity if you want to use it we are increasing the number of classrooms to meet the needs that we have today because we are uh beyond the industry standard um of classroom usage and we are looking to get more flexibility with the way that we use our classrooms not to have more I understand that but you can go back to that level in a future I'm sorry I didn't what's prevent you from going so say you're 20% over over say get the rooms allow 100 students you have 120 now you're adding 50 more spaces so you're 150 if you go to 20% you have 180 students now so what's what's preventing you from doing that wanting to not have a problem that we have now so we're trying to solve a problem not to then recreate it in the future so can you guarantee that that's not you're not going to increase rollment I I can tell you that we have no intention of increasing our graduating class or High School enrollment or our driving population we have some spaces in our lower grades that we would increase our enrollment but that's how it had been previously so we would not be looking to exceed something that would create a parking or traffic So eventually if those lower classmen want to go to high school you're going to say you can't go here no so our lower school classes are smaller than our high school classes so for example our graduating class let's say is 65 our 8ighth grade class might be 35 or 40 so we increase enrollment at our nth grade and always have um so it it wouldn't impact what we would be graduating we might only have let's say 30 in our sixth grade for example but that sixth grade will move up to the high school and we would only then increase that grade by let's say 35 to get to 65 we are not interested in having classes of 80 or 90 okay thank you any other questions for this witness I can I know I know I'm always late to the game and I apologize but when I drove through the site the other day um I guess three weeks ago uh there's a couple of large school buses are those yours or they for sporting events or could have been either if it said openal school that's us I didn't really look that close not um but we have our bus Parks yeah they Park on that little yeah yeah back there yeah back here yes so was likely a visiting a visiting bus and you have a few um GMC uh yes the Yukons yeah yes those are also student uh we our uh facilities teams use that uh for a variety of things they they are usually parked right here and we do sometimes use those for student transport maybe one of our smaller teams or an off-site community service project or something like that all right so why don't we take a five minute break break before Hillary's next witness sounds good all right thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right we are back in session miss can you present your next witness please sure Mara roller and if you could Mr ball is going to swear you in if you could please raise your right hand do you swear airm the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name it's Mara roller r o l l e r thank you and can you describe your background and experience for the board yes um I'm a licensed landscape architect um I manage the LA group at Dynamic engineering I have a Bachelor of Science in landscape arure from Penn State University um I have licenses in New Jersey Pennsylvania Delaware Virginia Maryland and Texas they're all in good standing and I was initially licensed in 1988 can now any questions from the board would you like to accept their credentials we will accept your credentials welcome thank you perfect um and just to explain the steps you took to prepare yourself for this testimony yes so I met with um o school and did deci SE I review the application and well as the land use ordinance um review the site plan existing conditions as well um talk with the school about their desired objectives and work with the dynamic team so that we' have a cohesive design plan we put all of this together we also went a TRC meeting previously and we took their comments under advisement and Incorporated those into the plan excellent and did you prepare plans in connection with this application yes um and can you just describe the landscape plan for the board and members of the interested public if we can get the computer to work again okay to theard I referring to what was exhibit A2 I believe yes which is the rendered Cy um this shows the overall campus uh it's rendered so some of the existing vitation is cut just so that you can see clearly the parking lot and circulation through the site but I think you can see that it's very densely vegetated all the way through it's extensively landscaped um school property with existing shet trees ornamental trees Evergreens as well as a mix of shrubs and FRS that provides year round cling around the campus to the external properties and internal thank you uh internal seasonal Beauty to the campus inside and it's very wellmaintained there is existing mature perimeter shade trees around Connelly uh as well as a mixed evergreen trees they will remain nothing that we're doing for Connelly the two additions here affect anything back here so we're not changing any of the conditions that are back there those trees will remain we're not adding to it because we don't want to disturb the root systems of those mature trees so that will remain as is um then down by lower Connelly where we're doing the building here any existing plants that we can salvage from the existing perimeter we will replant around the New Foundation of Connelly space permitting then on Tisdale I don't want to get anybody's way uh in the Tisdale building here the two additions that are going on we're not disturbing any of the buffer that is all the way around this side there's no grading there's no tree removal back there this area as Dan mentioned earlier we're obviously removing some trees here for the addition and then this is where the Basin is going and I'll get into some details down here on larid there is some existing vegetation along the property perimeter as well as a fence and we are proposing some um improvements around there too just go to tale we have the do we have this exhibit already entered no so that is going to be so this is a sight line exhibit A5 so the Seline exhibit is going to show sections of the various places that we're proposing landscaping around the perimeter of the site as well as showing some of the landscape material that we're using this lower section shows larnard and it's hard to see from from a distance but we're showing uh the initial planted size of a tree and then has it grows up so what we have along learned is Evergreen vegetation along the toe of the slope along with a fence replacement and we also have large shrubs growing along the top and we're saving as many mature trees as we can that are in the middle of that to create a nicer buffer that's there already the Tisdale in the back this is the Basin which is sunken a little bit down it's all planted it's a bio retention basin the whole thing will be planted with grasses shrubs and trees that helps also with the water intake and also keeps it looking natural then the buffer will start with 6 to 8ot Evergreens and then eventually they'll mature up to where you'll block the view of the building and the it'll be also fronted on some shrubs to help dress the side that faces the residences the proposed plans that we filed originally um only Incorporated I'm going to switch back to the A2 exhibit a buffer along the back of one Manor Hill but after talking to the neighbors and hearing some comments from the last hearing we this do discuss with the school that we would extend Landscaping across the back of the adjacent lot you can see that there's existing trees back in here which we're not going to take down to do that but what we will do is field adjust plantings as we need to to fit it probably be more likely large shrubs than a lot of evergreen trees so you'll get lower level planting but the existing trees will still give you the higher level planting but that'll give you additional screening and we'll work within we don't want to disturb tree roots and damage the existing trees but it'll give you some additional planting back in through there so we that will be addition to that and there in addition to that they did also discuss the fence that will be going along have it on our exhibit an iron fence that we are doing along lned that we agreed to extend uh replace the fence behind that second Manor Hill house as well as they express concern about the condition of their fence that was behind their house this yes fence correct on the yeah that's a newer exhibit I I we have it digitally and it's I can't get it to pull up you have it on the I can show you on the other um Tisdale exhibit when I bring that up uh the buyer retention Basin is going to have going to bring back up the sight line exhibit some of the plants that are in there is the red twig dogwood we have sycamore trees we have cthra so there's a variety of things that are in there that are going to flower that are going to grow tall that are going to help absorb the water there's also um grasses in there like switch grass and these evergreens are a variety of Evergreens that will be used to have a mixed planting along the bu buffer of both lard Road and the buffer that is behind Tisdale across both of those houses there's also some Holly so we'll work with um the space that we have to mix in these things to make a nice buffer that goes back there that looks natural the [Music] um the lard Road fence right now is a chaining fence that's seen better days and we're going to um replace that with an iron fence all the way across this is a new exhibit and this is a view from behind one Manor Hill looking at Tisdale as the landscape would be in its initial planted condition I will put a caveat to say though that there is a lot of existing deciduous trees behind this house that I couldn't show and then appropriately make you see what the buffer planting looks like so it's it's a little not 100% accurate that you there is more buffering here than what this looks like but I wanted you to understand what the buffer that we're proposing looks like so bear that in mind as you're looking at this so we have a mixed row of evergreen trees that'll be going in at 6 to8 feet and then what we'll do along the bottom of this facing the residential side to keep it more natural looking is put in a mix of flowering deciduous shrubs so that when you're looking at this from this side you'll have that lower level view that'll be a mixed flowering buffer and then you'll have the upper um Evergreen and then what we did was projected to fiveyear growth so Five Years it'll be to this based on the selection of plants that we chose and I would say that 10year growth then will be you won't even see the building at that point like we have Blackburn Road this would be A8 this is that was A6 and seven okay rendering of the existing condition there is a double row of evergreens Li Al inter please don't interrupt her testimony thank you there's a double row of Evergreens based on the best effort that we could make to represent what we felt was out there um they that exist all the way across there now if you look at the aerial view on the maps it's a staggered row of Evergreens they have to be planted at a certain spacing so that they can add a grow to mature if you plant anything other than a emerald green aror bitey at 3 ft together immediately because they don't grow all that much you can't plant things you have to give them space to fill and grow so that's why there's a double staggered row so that one is behind the other space so that you essentially get a pretty solid planting and again you still have to have some space for them to grow we are going to add to the front of that in the five-year growth they would be significantly higher but understanding that sometimes um with Evergreens depending on how the ground plane the branches do vary with the ground plane we would fill in the bottom with this as well facing on the street side so that you would get the benefit of lower level planting and again as Dan mentioned earlier the parking lot is lower so just by virtue of the change in elevation and grade the 3 ft lower that it is already does hide some of the parking lot lights that would be facing in that direction so again we can certainly work with residents and with the planner in the town to make sure that the selection of things that we're picking here benefits everybody we can do you know more Evergreen less Evergreen we can also depending on the space that we have plant some additional behind for a third row where space permits to try to bolster up that while they're all filling in and growing and in addition to that we would also have a couple of shade trees in the parking lot to just soften and shade that as well and the fence I'm going switch back to the Tisdale because I don't think I pointed it out in the rendering and I'm not sure it's easy for you to see but there is a black Iron Fence shown in here behind and that is the same fence that will be going all the way down lned as well we are removing I think somebody asked a question earlier down in um the mostly in the area of Tisdale for the improvements that are there we are removing what's the number 27 evergreen trees that are existing and 21 deciduous trees in order to accomplish the improvements in that area however we are planting back 13 deciduous trees and we are putting back 51 large scale evergreen trees and 44 smaller scale evergreen trees so we're significantly planting more than we were taking out in addition to that there are 71 additional evergreen shrubs 132 deciduous shrubs and 68 perennials and grasses throughout the site so we believe with given the improvements that Oak was proposing that there is sufficient mature Landscaping in the areas around the site some of it is on Oak's property some it's on the residential property adjacent that provides significant buffering to the property already um again existing trees along the western property line will all remain and due to existing tree canopies and expensive root systems we're not going to underplant or disturb what's what areas that we're not disturbing but we've put in significant Landscaping to help buffer some of the new things and also to improve the view from Lauren and we're really not doing any improvements at all but we're just trying to make that a little bit nicer as we've listened to the con comments from Neighbors okay um and did you have an opportunity to review the administrative comments yes I think you've already answered the planner's comment we did and I think the only other comment we had was from the Forester and it was regarding a few species and we said we would work with them to swap out species um I think the Forester actually approved and recommended the approval of this plan the environmental commission was talking about some native right and that we would swap out some the plant list is significantly native some things we chose were not invasive um but not necessarily native for the just to help with deer brows sometimes that's some things are a benefit so but we'll switch out what we can work with them great I have no more questions Marie um no I don't any questions okay Ed do you have questions for the just a few great questions um the buffer to the rear of Tisdale um that's proposed along the adjacent property that's in a 10-ft area you're staggering the trees where you can what's the spacing on the trees themselves at time FR it depends on the variety where we have green giant Arbor VY trees because of they get to the mature size of something more significant those are 10 F on Center where we have Emerald Sentinel Juniper for example those are closer to 6 feet on Center so it just depends on the variety okay um in the Basin itself that the rail that's shown in the illustration did you take any uh artistic license with those trees that are proposed in that Basin are they shown in this illustration we didn't take any there are there's a existing I believe over here we didn't show them as anything the these are the existing trees that are there now didn't show what's in the Basin they're they're they're don't they don't show above what the Evergreen screen is they're there but they're behind because the Basin is a few feet lower so even though those trees are planted the evergreens are 6 to8 feet those trees are going in at like 14 feet but because the Basin is several feet in the ground it kind of evens out so you don't you'll eventually see them much taller because they'll mature camores will mature to be 60 70 feet tall at some right because of the nature of this being I guess one of the areas where there's relief required for the buffer is it possible to raise size of the caliber of the trees proposed in the Basin uh just so that they have more net effect uh back behind this buffer adjacent to the buildings I just wanted to put that out there I think that we could yeah we could consider that for sure it's a way of adding to that buer more effective yes so in your illustration your second set of illustrations that are shown I guess along the prospect is it Prospect or that's a long uh black thank you that's simulating the existing it was simulating existing trees okay and so therefore you're adding to that as far as plants in the foreground and plants in the background to try to fill in the gaps behind that those PL correct you're willing to do additional PL if it's necessary correct be something for the board to consider with theer asking them to maybe conduct a field visit to see where there should be S plant relative to that is there any plant proposed I know the illustration was just shown tonight to the reconfigured parking area along black is there any um plan things adjacent to the parking spaces themselves in that area there's there's some existing hedging in front of some of the parking and we'll certainly work with a with you to enhance that as we may see fit to I know that was concern of some of the neighbors as far as headlights possibly projecting out adjacent across the street if you put planting closer to the park cars would you agree that tends to block The View there we would well if the park cars are 3 feet lower then I would rather the park that rather the planting be closer to the street that's at a higher elevation would be more effective so it would be at whatever the higher elevation would be in the particular location to be the most effective but willing to look at that BL absolutely okay nothing F thanks board questions for this witness I'll take one um I'm looking at Mr linson's comments they're dated December 24 December 19th 24 has he seen any of these which I consider significant changes to your plan has he had a chance to review them need the rendering that his there's a whole plan that's been changed uh we have do you mean the new parking parking we have all kind we have all kinds of new things on here uh has Mr Linson seen any of the revisions Mr Linson has not seen the new parking layout from tonight but it's in the same location basically as it was previously has he seen any of these these drawings these are just renderings usually he I mean we're seeing them for the first time right usually the renderings are just presented at the he in he's seen the landscape plan which has all of these on them but this is just what it would look like in real life if you looked at it I think that's that's pretty typical of what I would really like Mr Linson to have a second fight at the Apple well I would just I would just add that he approved the plan as it was and what we're showing is additional planting so I can't imagine I I think we can certainly share approval we can certainly work with him again I think that there was also some other areas that we were going to have as a condition to add some additional plantings to buffer and Screen some of those certain areas so we can certainly make that a condition of approval that he gets another review I think that would go a long way towards helping the neighbors have sure have confidence in absolutely way we are he did approve the plan as was shown but I'm not sure that that's what I'm looking at again right now so a revised plan will be reviewed by the city Forester and to take into um Ed's comments into account as well you'll consult with the city Forester regarding the plantings once they go in yes perfect other questions sure um I'm glad to hear that you're doing some work on lard because that I drove through there and it's it's G to Bey up see much prettier although I tried to get a soccer ball but I couldn't reach it but anyway um on Blackburn where we're talking about these additional plantings to help shade the um traffic the headlights was there any consideration of a fence 4 foot high fence then you don't have to wor like we've had applications here where they talk about how the bottom of the pine trees get some disease and then they ended up you know it goes up and then you end up replacing a tree as opposed to maybe a 4 foot white vinyl fence Never Dies does get dirty but you can clean it even though you do have a 3ft difference an elevation there might be I'm just throwing it out there I I'm I'm not sure if like a white vinyl fence would be consistent with the to go the other way and say might we continue the stone wall so I know it's a little bit more expensive but it fits in with the motif of the of the school um just a solution I think that's why there was the under if you just turn it back those under plantings to kind of take that into consideration to make sure that underneath the trees were also going to be it's we can make it look any way we want I say that but well I mean again I'm sure that the board could retain jurisdiction over landscaping and we'll work with the Forester to that was that was the idea of adding lower level planting and again the parking was already lower so that's really not the headlights weren't at that level and then we were going to supplement that anyway just to make sure that we had that extra level of protection in addition to things behind there so I'm confident that and again you have to you do have to give some ability for plants to grow yes um but that it would be very sufficient and really more aesthetically pleasing than a solid fence in my opinion okay thought I'd ask any other questions no all right questions from the public again please questions only name and um so that is very generous Lial interpretation what exists look very different just questions only at this point the uh are you aware of when these existing trees were planted I believe that's a proposed rener that's a proposed no there's no the the ones that are there the ones that are there have been there for a couple of years I don't know the exact data installation I wasn't I'm okay that's what I was going to say maybe a couple of years di correct and these were replaced I do you know why the other ones died I was not a part of this project then okay um are these irrigated is there a drip line or anything in these or would there be drip lines with the trees that you're proposing if you plant the right plant you don't need to irrigate trees and shrubs you need to irrigate lawns you need to irrigate perennials you manually water for the first year until establishment and if you plant the right plant it it doesn't need irrigation to grow after that it'll get acclimated to regular rainwater having said that if something gets diseased and there's a new disease imp plants every day there's nothing you can do to control that so if what was there got a disease and that's why they died they weren't those existing Evergreens that were there previously didn't die from lack of irrigation they died from probably getting some kind of contracted disease just like Dutch elm disease now we have Emerald ashore like things migrate they die and then you have to replant so that's just a part of the evolution of plant material what is the spacing between those trees they're probably 10 feet on Center because that's what they would need space to grow they would be 10 feet on Center in one line and then you stagger so that the 10 feet on Center behind it makes it 5 feet apart visually the hope that you for yeah that's an industry standard uh is that what it currently is I believe that is what it is I would have to double check I don't I'm not going to guarantee that off okay did you consider um putting a wall I mean the wall is beautiful it's a little bit disrepair from time to time but like did you consider putting a wall in no we thought the landscape was more appropriate well good um say that for the comments um on the Tisdale catch Bas I didn't I don't think I appreciated this but there's plantings that go in the catch Basin are you referring to the detention retention Basin not a catch Basin okay it's a bio retention Basin and the nature of that is that you plant it entirely so the entire thing is planted the 60 by 30 the entire thing is planted correct PLS going into that 653 a are some of them um it's a mixture of plants so there's from the large scale there's three sycamore trees and then there are dozens of shrubs and tons of grasses and how how below grade are the um sore trees the whole Basin is ranges from 3 to 6ish feet deep so they're there and the sycamore trees are going in approximately 14 ft so they'll be 7 ft out of the ground from the GetGo and then if we do some larger trees as was discussed it'll start from there and then those all of those plants the whole point of a bior retention Basin is that they not only is water infiltrating down into the system but they are absorbing water up into the tree and so it's a dual benefit of storm water um and then are there any of this may not be for you but um the second question relates to you is are there any windows or lights on the back of Edition this the back of tiso that so all those are windows there that are new I would defer to the architect for whether they're um spal glass or real glass I that those are new windows okay so lighting will come out do do windows exist there now got to come up okay why don't you come up and question okay Ralph Rosenberg andk Architects um as a point of reference we replicating the wall we are covering so this new wall replicates the existing wall so the existing gymnasium has Windows on two sides the new gymnasium the exil gymnasium we only have Windows on one side so there are existing windows we are basically moving those South but they are clear windows faing side and this is the view from Manor Hill correct correct correct the you mentioned that you're going to extend the um that the set of um green Giants up to the next how far up we're going to extend a buffer planting across to the next house when you look back at if I could bring up the original A2 the house that's here we're not taking down any of the perimeter trees that are there now they're going to stay we're not disturbing them so we're probably not going to be extending green Giants and emerald Sentinel junipers because they're not going to fit and we don't want to compromise the root system of these existing big beautiful trees what we probably will do is look for things like when Winterberry holly that will take the shade um you know nine bark other types of things that will take the shade but grow to be 10 or 12 feet tall so you'll get a significant human level screen at that lower level and they'll Thrive underneath the mature Shade that's there without and we'll field adjust them I can I can show you a row of things on here when we go out there maybe there's a big route and we'll have to move it to work around that so it'll be an extension of a buffer it won't be green GI in AR bites it'll if we could fit one in between someplace it's hard to tell at this scale on this exactly where there's a space but we'll we'll it'll be a mixed planting because there's you know there's there's a lot of taller oak trees there correct um but they only provide you know they only provide this much screening on the way up right and then up top they provide screening but not where um light comes out of the windows um so right room in the back of Tisdale that the lights are constantly left on at night and you know I was just asking if there's a way you can consider bringing some of the screening around the back of Tisdale um it under the we can certainly take a look at that but our our goal was to absolutely minimize disturbance around that building so we took down the absolute minimum amount of trees and left everything that we could leave there and so you don't want to compromise the health of those Oaks by jamming something in that's a not going to grow because of the shade of the Oaks and I agree with that you know so we would certainly look at that in the field condition and see if there is a possibility of us to fit something larger scale on the side there I mean there's amount of light that comes out of there gy when it's used at night and whatever you provide could you could um could you articulate better for me so I could when I look at it what you mean well there's a on side that window that out this is an old picture is this do you live here yeah I here okay so there's a lot of okay there might even be room at the edge we'll have to take a look in I think that's something absolutely would agree to let me just see if I have I asked you about the stone wall right you thank you welcome good evening good evening I'm Eric nicely 56 black bur Road will the garden that's behind by the C would still be there that isn't um will any of the plants do they like to have what I call Darkness during some part of their day do youan some plants are impacted by correct some plants are impacted by how many hours of Sun they exposure they have correct and I'm what I'm trying to ask is if the lights are on would that potentially the plan that you like no no okay thank you you're welcome any other questions from the public for this witness okay um last witness is John Barry you step up and we'll swear you at all right do you s affirm the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name sure John Barry b a r r e e thank you can you describe your background and experience for the board sure I have a master's degree in city in Regional planning from Ruckers University I'm a licensed professional planner in New Jersey a member of the American Institute of certified planners both of those in good standing since 2014 and I regularly represent and testify before boards such as this and I've been before this board a couple times any questions from the board would you like to accept them once again we will accept your credentials welcome thank you okay um so in in preparation for this evening I certainly visited the property reviewed the materials with the team reviewed the various professional reports and the the city's development review ordinance and put together kind of a brief synopsis of all the different planning relief that we're seeking we've heard about all aspects of this so far from the other Witnesses so I'm really bringing everything together summing up the other testimony that you've heard this evening or and last time as well so in in essence what we have is an application to make improvements to the the Oak Property and school operations the various aspects of the development you've heard about the additions to the buildings for the purpose of creating more flexible space to accommodate the existing population of the school and to bring the learning environment into a a more Modern Standard a more accessible standard and something that the school and its students can continue to thrive with the various other site improvements that you've heard about go into to accommodating those improvements to the school program and hopefully trying to work with the city and the neighbors to mitigate any impacts that come along and you've heard from the different Witnesses and you've seen in the evolution of the plans that the applicant is certainly willing to work with their neighbors and we've appreciated all of the input that we've gotten both during Community meetings and as part of this process you've gotten a good overview of the property itself um it's got multiple frontages four frontages really going around it's a large site it's got the school campus two former residential structures on Prospect Street I'm not going to go through all of that again because I think everybody's heard it but just to to set our stage property's in the r-15 residential Zone which permits single family residences public parks and playgrounds and conditionally permits institutional uses like this educational institutions houses of worship things of that nature the main relief that we're seeking and why we're at the zoning board is a conditional use variance there are a number of conditions spelled out in the development um ordinance that um the educational institutions in the r-15 zone have to comply with we're also seeking a D4 variance under the statute which is for exceeding the permitted floor area ratio and wrapped into the D3 conditional use variance is also a D6 height variance we'll talk about height in detail in a moment but those are really overlapping in their analysis so as far as the conditionally used standards go there's a minimum front yard requirement of 50 ft the 72 Prospect Street building has a 30 foot setback to lned road which is down in the bottom right corner of sheet A2 over there that's an existing condition it's a technical deviation since no change is being proposed there but we wanted to make sure we note that because that uh house is proposed to be incorporated into the overall site there's a minimum sidey setback requirement of 50 ft in the corner of the Connelly hall edition there's a 34.2 ft setback the that's actually not quite as far as the ex existing setback there's a point in the existing building that's 28 ft so the new setback is not even going as close to the sidey yard as what exists but it is not meeting what's required that area is about a one is a one-story portion of the building that's about 320 squ ft in area within that required sidey yard I'll skip Building height for just a moment because we'll get into that in more detail um we just heard a lot about the side buffer which is toward the left side of our A2 drawing that's in the area on the side of the tisdel building where we have the bio retention Basin that we just heard testimony about uh there's a sidey yard buffer requirement of 50 ft 10 ft is proposed to the retention Basin and 6.2 ft to a walkway area adjacent to that the lot coverage we heard about in the engineering testimony there's a maximum lot coverage under the conditional use standards of 40% 42% exists today before any of the proposed improvements and with the modifications to the parking lot that we heard about this evening 46.6% is proposed the maximum building coverage that's permitted is 15% and 16% is being proposed with the new additions to the buildings finally we have two uh two issues related to parking parking is only permitted inside side and rear yards considering that most of the property is front yard based on its orientation we have a little bit of a hardship with that issue the parking in the front yard at 72 Prospect at both lard and Prospect is existing in the front yard and then some of the new parking that's proposed behind mahe Hall at 76 Prospect will be in the Blackburn Road front yard the finally we have a existing minimum Park setback issue um 20 FTS required for the parking setback the proposed new parking behind 76 complies with that but some of the existing parking at 72 Prospect that's being incorporated into the site does not meet that requirement there's a 13.6 foot setback to lned and a 0 foot setback to prospect the driveway comes right into a parking space now for the height where we at a91 we are at A9 A9 so this is an exhibit that was prepared by uh NK Architects it's a blow up and a modification of a little diagram that was on sheet A8 of the submitted plans and what it's really showing is a full cross-section of the Connelly Hall buildings the lower and upper Connelly it's a little hard to wrap our heads around we spent 20 minutes this morning on a call with the whole team trying to figure out exactly how this all fit together so we wanted to make sure it was as clear as possible the city has two different standards that it uses to measure height it has a measurement from average grade plane and it has a measurement from the lowest point of the building to the highest point of the building and based on how Connelly is configured today and how the additions are proposed those are two very different things so if you come into the site from Blackburn and you're at uper upper Conelly you're looking at what's really a two-story building and the proposed addition is matching the two stories with a new Ridge feature that you heard about during the architectural testimony as you come down in more into the property and work down to lower Connelly you're coming around the side of the building you're sort of presenting now into a new three-story portion that's below what we were looking at before so we have a what's functioning is a three-story Edition for lower Connelly and that's one of our variances uh two stories is permitted and this based on how the floors are defined counts as three stories the um and then as far as the heights themselves go we have the high low so the top of the building to the lower the highest point to the lowest point of the building on the lower Connelly is 45.58 Ft so sorry John I'm just going to interrupt you it's actually upper Connelly that has the three stories and lower Connell is two stories which seems counterintuitive but the way that the ordinance is written upper Conelly considers um that third floor from that building um as one of the stories on upper Connelly yeah all that work still got it wrong so this this part here coming into the upper Connelly building actually counts even though when we're looking at upper Connelly we only see two floors this third floor here is considered part of its overall structure even though you would never see it even though you would never see it all in one place and then like is kind of the opposite with lower Connelly even though we have a functional basement level it's enough below the grade that it doesn't count as a story so that's only considered two stories so we need a variance for the three stories at upper Conelly so as far as the high low the lowest point to the highest point we have the 45.58 Ft at lower Connelly and then because it is all one building really we have 72.1 ft from that very low corner all the way down and around the hill at lower Connelly to the top point of the ridge that's back up toward Blackburn at the top of the upper Connelly Edition from average grade plane again this average around the entire building lower Conelly complies it's at 26.5 ft upper Connelly this Dimension here is 52.9 ft so technical in my mind in nature rather than practical because at any point where you're standing near these buildings they don't present themselves as anywhere near This Tall because you can't see all of this from any one vantage point on the site and then in addition we have a variance for the average grade height from for Tisdal which is 37.3 ft and the high low for tisdol which is 40.3 Ft so those were fairly straightforward but and less than 10% deviations in both cases all right okay so that's all the relief associated with the D3 and the height issues um as far as the planning proofs go um looking at whether or not the site can continue to function despite this non-compliance with these conditions and we have an inherently beneficial use which does the heavy lifting for the positive side of The Ledger on the analysis from a planning perspective school is um recognized under the statute as an inherently beneficial use the school has been located here at this property for just over 100 years now and so has been functioning and evolving with the neighborhood throughout that time many of the conditional use standards and issues are related to how the site has been developed over the years and the Topography of the property we've got the dramatic slopes throughout the property the um improvements are generally interior to the site you've heard about the screening the the height issues are really all interior to the site um and matching the existing buildings the height of the existing buildings is driving the height of the additions with regard to coverage you've heard about the storm water management that's being proposed to enhance and improve um the conditions that are there today we've got new landscaping around the perimeter to assist with any of the setback and buffering issues and the commitment by the applicant and their professionals to work with the city's professionals to make sure that any of those buffers are designed and maintained to the satisfaction of all in addition um in terms of integrating 72 prospects effect into the campus it was at one time part of the school from 1952 to 1971 so it's returning back to its historic home as part of the overall campus as far as the proofs for the floor area ratio we're dealing with a similar set of circumstances and standard of proof is really focusing on whether the site can accommodate the use with the larger floor area the Renovations you've heard testimony from an operational standpoint about how they're necessary to improve the function of the school make it more accessible more modern um I can share from having been in the Connelly building that there's not an elevator uh there's very limited bathroom facilities so just from a brief visit those functional needs are obvious portions of the buildings that count toward the floor area ratio are barely perceptible and certainly not all perceptible from the same location on the site so as far as that standard goes it seems like the uh the property can easily accommodate the relatively minor deviation in floor area ratio now in addition to those D variances that we just went through there are a few bulk variances being sought the proposed fence the iron fence that U Marl just testified about along lned Road that's wrapping around the uh the side of the the Basin there it's proposed to be 5T tall where 4 feet is permitted in a front yard you heard from Craig and some extent about the parking stall Dimensions um 9 9 ft 8 9 by8 ft is required where 8.5 by 18 is proposed um the parking space striping where hair pin is required and the single stripings proposed um all of those are um relatively di Minimus in nature more technical in my opinion and then we saw during the architectural testimony the signage package that was being proposed internal to the site and heard from the architect how the signs were placed and designed before they were measured they were considered in the Aesthetics of the buildings they were considered in the overall view of the campus and the relief is being sought as di Minimus in my opinion a maximum of 8 square ft is committed for building signs of the six signs there 17.63 10.35 28.3 10 11.25 and 9.42 square ft so nothing massive all within the facade dimensions and confines of the buildings fitting in with the rest of the campus the maximum sign height requires deviation because the signs are proposed to be mounted higher up above the first floors and the maximum lettering size is proposed to exceed the 6 in that's permitted 10 12 and 18 in are permitted at various points and then finally we have a variance for steep slope disturbance 6,227 Square ft of slope disturbance which is a little less than 10% of the regulated slopes on the property are being proposed to be disturbed these are all all the disturbances are necessary based Bas on locations of the existing improvements and how the developments will fit in with the existing buildings and connect to them the disturbance will be managed you heard the engineering testimony about management of the disturbance and there won't be any excessive erosion or other unstable conditions and that storm water management will mitigate any long-term impacts so as to the C variances um there is an element of hardship related to the depoc ghy of the site especially for the steep slopes and then there are a number of benefits that the project as a whole advances um the school as its in its function promotes the general welfare the um which advances purpose a the additional parking that's being proposed we're not seeking a parking variance the proposed parking is meant to help deal with uh issues that have been raised by the neighbors over the years and help manage the school's um operations and so that promotes purpose H which encourages the design and location of Transportation routes to promote the free flow of traffic um purpose I is encouraging a desirable visual environment through creative development techniques we're maintaining the historic character of the Prospect Street Frontage so there's no change there from Prospect Street and then the other buildings are the additions are matching the existing architecture to the best extent possible and then finally um encouraging coordination of public and private procedures for the more efficient use of land the applicant here has been working very closely with the city for a long time to try to ensure that it remains a good neighbor in this location and that the improvements that are being proposed here are not only functioning better for the school but also helping alleviate some of the the stresses that have been noted in the surrounding areas um so as to the that's all that deals with the Positive criteria side of things briefly as to the negative criteria you've heard all the different mitigation approaches that the applicants proposing related to parking related to Landscaping lighting um and the um storm water management The Proposal is not going to be exacerbating any of those issues and we're going to be taking steps all along the way to try to lessen them where to the extent possible and finally when it comes to the Imp chairman of the zoning ordinance and master plan uh there is none that I would see in any of the goals and objectives of the master plan or the recent reexaminations and under the zoning ordinance this use is anticipated in this location it's a conditional use so we're doing the best we can to address those deviations as noted um so in conclusion I think the site has functioned as it has looking to improve and mitigate circumstances where we can and the use is inherently beneficial and certainly meets the positive criteria for Relief we feel we've worked through enough of these different design exercises to mitigate and address any negative criteria and the applicants committed to doing so moving forward as well uh so with that I think I'll conclude um I just have uh a quick note that we're also seeking a modification of Prior conditions of approval to permit parking behind 76 Prospect Street um also the potential to use the Prospect Street driveway if that's something that the board desires um and also to permit students to park in those first 16 spaces closest to ashin on lned um the reason for that is so that they're not parking on other streets and they're all contained on that same lned Ashland and um Blackburn area thank you all right experts questions for this witness um just a few U thank you for your testimony um what I would offer as a question is relating to the building height that's being proposed is is your what is your testimony with regard to the features of the site itself that are requiring that Building height measurement uh would you say it's the topography the change of that actual natural condition yes it's a a combination of the the topography which is the natural condition but also the placement of the existing structures so in order to tie in new additions to the floors of the existing buildings they're required to be placed in such a way and of a certain height to to function okay um hopefully I'm pronouncing the building right this the Connelly building is the building that we're adding an addition on to um that's this building right here right and that's the one that has the minimum sidey set 32t I believe hold on close uh 34 yeah 34.2 and there's there's an existing 28t set that's to an appendage that's being added to the back of the cafeteria but you said it's a on story elevation that portion is one story yes okay what are the mitigating factors for that distance offset to the adjacent properties in in terms of mitigating that specific distance yeah um from a planning standpoint well the the purpose of it first is that the placement of that little bump out is because it's adjacent to the existing kitchen so to preserve the function of the building that's why it's being bumped out there rather than elsewhere the um I I would have to defer tomorrow I don't know if there's the ability to add any other Landscaping in that location to help screen that I know there are isn't it also down grade as well it is yeah it's down down lower than the neighboring property correct and it's only 320 320 square feet and I think there's existing just want to make as that yes thank you um the F for the building I know you indicated that the illustration was very helpful even though you you may have had the wrong uh number of stories but regardless um as you look at F and the purposes of f really control the bulk and mass uh sometimes it's also intensity of use on the property but yet the bulk and mass of the building how is that being broken up by the architecture from your standpoint profession so from within the site depending on where you're standing there are only certain buildings and only certain pieces of buildings visible from any given location and then certainly the same applies from around the perimeter of the site so depending on which property adjacent property or Street Frontage you're on you can only see portions of the campus so it's not a situation where you have a large monolithic structure it's not a situation where there's a street wall um that's overwhelming in mass and so the the different diverse buildings and pieces of buildings being built into the topography being scattered around the property helps soften all of that space all the volume all the mass associated with the structures and because it's multiple buildings yes that's certainly part of it okay regarding the sign variance I know you touched on I think you indicated that that was somewhat dominous I might disagree but yet from the standpoint of uh the sign the signs themselves isn't one of the other benefits of the sign is sort of more of a way finding purpose in the interior circulation of the campus yes and there they're for interior identification only none of the signs are designed to or will functionally be visible from outside the campus they're not attracting visitors to the property they're not um advertising the presence of the school they're merely identifying the buildings once you're already on the campus and circulating around the site okay your size is necessary why uh both for um identification purposes so that the buildings are are easily known and also as the architect testified there's an aesthetic idea behind it there's some logos there's a cross there's elements that are not simply words and they're all designed to be a package that that fits into the faades of the building I'm sorry if I didn't hear the earlier testimony by the architect but are any of the signs going to be eliminated no they are not no thank you um your testimony regarding the parking within the front yard I think you touched on if I correct me if I'm wrong the fact that the propos changed parking area along the Blackburn that's also going to be in the front yard yeah so there's there's there's two there's the setback standard that the park the change parking meets but it's still located within a technical front yard Tech front yard as in the front of a building and the reason why that variance really is applicable is because of the multiple frontages uh to to a point yeah there there's very few places you could place parking that wouldn't end up in a front yard um so it's it's really driven by the fact that the site has four frontages okay and lastly with the buffer that's proposed along this southernly property line from the uh the actual Basin area um 10 ft is being proposed from your professional opinion why is that 10 ft appropriate from the standpoint of what's being proposed and I guess the testimony yeah so the the 10 foot is the the first row of screening really then beyond that we've got the bio retention Basin and in the the back and forth with uh with our neighbor the uh landscape architect articulated how there would be sycamores there would be some other plantings and so the Basin while technically within a required buffer area at planting will itself serve a lot of that function by by being a planted area between neighboring property okay uh thank you further questions thanks do you have anything have any questions for thank you Bo questions for thisness I don't know if this is your purview but you mentioned it the parking spaces you said were eight and a half feet wide as opposed to I think we said 8 fo3 88 6 in 8' 6 in yeah but I thought I thought we' mention 8 foot3 used 8 fo three as a example of kind of the bare minimum so we were 8 fo6 is what it's proposed and then um the signs could this would you need a variance if you Incorporated the signs into the facade of the building if it was like I don't know like I don't know how to call it like if it was engraved into I I think it's still cons still cons they would still be cons okay and I think that's all I really have no I'm all right no all right so uh we will now take questions questions only from the public for this witness all right okay you're done with all your Witnesses we I'm done with all the witnesses I do have a summation but I can do it after the public comment public comment all right so now this is the time for the public to come up and tell us your thoughts positive or negative about this project so if anyone would like to do that please again state your name spell your last name and give us your address we'll be swearing you in oh yes sorry so if you could please raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes and please state your name spell your last name BEC Morano a Prospect Street m o r a n o thank you um I want to First say that Oak has been a great neighbor to my family we've lived in the house since 2017 we bought out the house after living in Summit for 35 years knowing that we were buying across from the school so we've never you know had any issues it's like buying a house and then complaining about your neighbor like that's not where my husband and I stand on this we're we love um our relationship ship with the school however and I have I'm not opposed to any of the buildings being expanded or any of the improvements that they want to make internally I think the one thing and I know it's not in my backyard but um it was written in I think the attorney summation that this would not affect real estate values and one of the things I'm I I'd like to ask is it was written in one of the documents that we received I think that was probably a prior resolution or oh no you know that's the me the memo in support of the application yes I was just wondering first and foremost where was that information taken from um well it's consistent with um testimony that was given in 2008 or I I have to look what what year was but there has been testimony regarding this property and improvements that have been done and how it does not affect the values of neighboring properties I think in my case unfortunately having um to St at a la up a parking lot with lit up all night long um is going to affect my real estate value and um I'm actually real estate agent so I can attest to that in a professional way as well as a private citizen um it's just not going to be pleasant from the second floor the third floor there's never going to be any trees that can grow high enough to block out the cars that are sitting there and for the amount of days a year that the spaces get used while they're in school it seems that it's just excessive for us in a residential area to have to take that on and um burden us with that and that's where I stand thank you thank you Serge M yes do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes please state your name spell your last name Serge mura m y r 51 Blackburn Road thank you um so recently first of all I'm all for the improvements as well okay but just making them manageable for for Neighbors in the area so uh just to take a step back in my thinking here uh recently we were at University of Michigan and we're doing a college visit and the campus has outgrown its blueprint so 70% of the students now that are freshman incoming freshmen have to stay 15 20 minutes away by bus because they've outgrown the blueprint the footprint of the original campus that happens there's a lot of disgruntled parents that when their kids go to University of Michigan they have to basically be 15 minutes away from the main campus we already know that the lacrosse Fields the soccer fields and so on are in chadam and what I have found now being my wife and I being our kids being there for three years is there's an increase of traffic flow in the area and on Blackburn Place Blackburn Road leard all kinds of different parking going on so we just want to keep the Integrity of the area so that it it is not chaos um so that's just my point I I I think it comes a point where you do outgrow the footprint and I think we're there now so let's just like keep it manageable okay cool thank you yeah um Eric nicely 56 Blackburn Road ni why do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do thank you um they have been a very good neighbor and I think what they want to do as far as adding on to the school makes some sense from a building standpoint I would like to ask though that the additional roof that's going to be on the upper school um where the what I call Congregation area would be would be passed upon um because that actually blocks our view over to the where you work and that's an actually nice better view than actually the roof with all the air conditioners and another thing would just block our view um so we'd like to potentially not have that in place um we also would like to um have some type of process relating to the lighting um the lighting has just um gotten much bigger they're leaving more lights on part of it's because of Co they need blue lights those types of things um but I think overall if we just keep adding lights um and we don't have some mechanism to turn them off when there's nobody there um it is going to continue to keep us up or those types of things and it' just be better if we could have some type of light plan that works long term um the other item just from a standpoint of probably nice to have is just make sure that the the retention actually is working the people at Warner have had a really hard time and further down um to make sure that that water is retained and then when they get the architectural drawings I they think you to ask a little bit about how far they drill down and if they can't go any further what the plan is to stop versus bringing in dynamite and those types of things the reason I asked that is you have us storing 12,000 gallons of water um in that big garage that's right back there and if for some reason everything shakes even though we built everything to your specifications I really don't want any a tidal wave to come down and some little kid um happens to drown or something like that so I just think you ought to think about how far when they're going do the dring whether or not they're shaking the rest of the structures thank you thank you do you sore from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes state your name spell your last name Sarah Mur 51 Blackburn Road m s y r a thank you um I'm super supportive of oakal as a neighbor of ours and as a school a religious institution and I think they absolutely should be able to make improvements to their campus um that directly benefit the current students and future students um my biggest issue here is as a resident of Blackburn road is the parking lot that's going to be put in um to me it seems that this parking lot is being put in to provide seniors more parking I it's a luxury an absolute luxury you're going to take away a green space that fits the neighborhood to let 17y olds park there let me be clear I have a 19-year-old I have an almost 17-year-old a 14-year-old I get it I get it I get it we want our kids to drive um I actually don't mind them parking on my street they Park on Blackburn place up and down the entire way I don't mind them they're actually very respectful they're nice rarely is it an issue um I will say making these spaces to get people off the street stre that's not going to happen more people are going to park on the street more kids are going to park on the street I've never once seen a car tag hanging on any car on black place ever that didn't like denotes it's a senior driving and again I'm okay with Junior's driving I'm okay with senior's driving I just don't think that we need to completely put in a parking lot that directly faces my neighbor's house and adds to congestion in the area to make that Improvement the building improvements yes I don't think we need the parking lot thank thank you thank you can I just note for the record that that parking lot is for employees and visitors you should arm wrestle for it do you swear airm the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the truth nothing but the truth I do Nick papis 96 Prospect Street and please spell your last name p a p p a s thank you and I also agree and and supporting of the the improvements to the school buildings to the structure I really uh disagree with that addition of the parking lot and I know that we're only looking for a 6% coverage variance but you're already 2% over so are you're 2.6 total I think that you know creates a tremendous issue with storm water I understand their retention basins I went through this with the town four years ago and put a lot of retention in my backyard to make it happen but at the end of the day the flooding is getting worse you're covering more of the land it's nonpermeable over time and it's just running down the hill to people on Larned I also think the parking lot with the additional lighting is you know it's the the school is a bright glowing Beacon 247 the lights never shut off the current lights around the parking lots are clearly not shielded because if you do what they say they would do I would not be seeing them from 500t away and then also when people pull in and out of the parking lot you can see right through the landscape shrubs I mean I have a very thick barrier of landscaping in my backyard large trees mix shrubs my neighbor has dream giant aritis every time he pulls into his driveway I can see his car lights he can see mine so having you know 15 cars pointed at our neighbor at night during a school event is just not acceptable for the neighborhood that's all thank you thank you if you can raise your right hand do you sarir the testimony you're about to give this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes please state your name spell your last name Brad Olsen o LS o n thank 64 Blackburn um yeah I I uh I noted before that there's a massive amount of um flooding that occurs I lost the car in 2020 in 3 ft of water um uh just down from lard um and um there's already a massive problem that's one of the worst areas in Summit um and Oak is going from 41% to 46% loot coverage uh in this situation and it's hard to imagine this doesn't contribute further to um the flooding problem um one way to make mitigate that is to not put in all these parking lots um it is not a benefit in my opinion um for many of my neighbors to have the parking lot um versus having people park on the street the parking on the street is fine um and um you know the objective of trying to get cars off off the street building parking lots they're going to be there 12 months a year 24 hours a day with lighting that's going to disrupt the neighborhood versus cars being there from you know whatever it is 8 to three isn't a tradeoff that I'm willing to think is beneficial for the neighborhood um and I think that's a detriment and I think this board has to really consider um the the drainage issues that exist given the flooding that exists for those houses down on on lard and how much this continues to contribute to that um separately um you know I it may have already been decided to okol has pulled it back but having another curb cut on Blackburn is not something that I think is good for the Aesthetics of the neighborhood the stone wall that you have is very nice I think you should you know integrate that with the landscaping and extend it um down towards um your new property at 76 Prospect or your existing property in 7 Prospect I think that would be um beneficial for the area in the neighborhood um I put in a stone wall I got my neighbor one up for me to put in a stone wall the nicely have a stone wall um you know it kind of fits the whole thing there's only one house missing and that one just turned over and hopefully they'll do construction having a Stonewall continue all really kind of makes the um character of our neighborhood um and the last I guess point I just like to make is that um I would like you know for okol to consider more screening uh in the back of Tisdale Hall there to the extent possible given um The Oaks that are there uh you know it's difficult for us beautiful school you know and I Echo everything else about being a good neighbor I brought some things up to you and you addressed them and I appreciate that um and um but um um I forget where I was going with it but um additional screen the school yeah yeah the lighting and so forth and the windows and you know lights are left on I know people to turn it off but they're left on anyway and you know anything you can do thank you for helping me finish my sentence no problem okay thank you if you can raise your hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do and please state your name spell your last name yep it's Isabelle Rogers r o g RS uh 92 Prospect Street thank you um I also if this is like nitpicking on your plans look beautiful you guys have excellent you've hired great the best of the best um I think the overarching issue here it's been stated before is like at what point do you have you grown out of your current capabilities in a residential um neighborhood and I think that is what is most concerning to me as a neighbor and to um to other neighbors as you can tell the the number one thing is that like you guys are an institution and your issue now has become our issue and in a residential neighborhood um as you can imagine you don't want parking lot in your backyard you don't want bright lights on all night you don't want to have to get new curtains you don't want to have to be on your patio and see a extremely lit um area so our concern here is that again you guys are in school 161 days a year eight hours a day that is 15% of the year so your issue is now 100% our issue when it's really only 15% of the year um it's a big it's like that's a effective everyday of our life um in addition as you guys get these improvements you're just going to continue growing which I understand I would too if I were you guys um a great institution I understand why you want to keep growing but in a residential neighborhood unfortunately there are confines and more traffic coming in um at ours where we have three young kids that will be walking to our public school um nearby is just overcrowding so as you guys as a board I really wish you would take into consideration that 15% of the year for to help them is affecting greatly affecting the neighbors 100% of the time do you swear airm the testimony you're about to give this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do and please state your name Ellen backer e l l n b c k e r 92 Prospect thank you I don't have have really anything clever or new to say than what we already haven't said I mean to me the parking lot's an absolute non-starter landscaped or not landscaped it's an absolute non-starter and I guess we as Summit residents and I don't mean the lecture but we're leaning on you guys to make a good trade because that's what you do you represent us to make a good trade and what they're asking for is not a balanced trade and anyone just logically thinking it all through can understand that throwing this parking lot down there and building additions you know I do have some issues with but but overall like what they're asking for there's no give there just is no give and it's up to you to represent us to make a good decision and when you put your head on that pillow tonight I hope you do thank you very much okay I think we're done with public comment so result all I'll throw it back to you for okay can I just respond to some of the comments absolutely okay so first of all for the lighting um I think that the school would obviously be amenable to evaluating the lighting around their school and seeing what they can turn off seeing what has to be on seeing if things can go on timers and things like that so that's number one where we hear the concerns of the neighbors and I I think that's something that the school obviously will look into and is happy to to address um with regard to the storm water management we have an expert he has been qualified for by this board as an expert and he has testified that these improvements that are being made and the storm water management that's being proposed is going to improve the conditions over and above what currently exists um he's also stated that the maintenance plan will be recorded with Union County to make sure that there's no issues with that storm water detention um moving towards the future um let's just see I don't know Dan can you just address the drilling ands for a second please yeah my pleasure absolutely um so we did do a geotechnical study um on the site uh essentially various test borings throughout um the only area where we anticipate potentially running into some Bedrock would be the lower Conelly Edition um but it's an add an elevation below the surface of the grade low enough where I can't absolutely guarantee we're not going to do blasting but it's highly unlikely that there be any blasting that' be necessary probably just some jackhammering um you know with uh you know back hose and stuff to be able to put the typical spread footing down there uh but with the depth of the Bedrock that we encountered from our geotechnical borings we don't anticipate you know major blasting and if there was we could absolutely do vibration monitoring and everything that the performance standards that are required you know by the state and the local um government to uh ensure that there be uh minimal impacts to the surrounding area thank you um also the school obviously as Mrs roller Miss roller testified to is obviously um will'll agree to a condition of approval to you know add Landscaping where we can to help the screening and work with the city Forester uh to make sure that all of those areas that are being improved are sufficiently screened um from View From The Neighbors um and then I I think one of the neighbors said that this is bringing more cars and traffic uh the traffic engineer testified that that is not the case there will be no additional cars coming to the site it's the same number of cars that have always been coming it's just they will not be parking on Perimeter roadways they'll be parking on site um it's also not student parking it is for employees so that way all the employees can get on site we have enough visitor spaces and then it will be for 25 students on campus so I think that addresses all of the comments and then I have a summation if I could please okay so I want to thank the board for listening to the presentation tonight and I want to thank the neighbors who have participated in this process for the last 3 years ool school is an inherently ly beneficial use and an existing permitted conditional use that is further protected by the religious land use and institutionalized persons Act of 2000 the courts have determined that when evaluating non-conformities with an inherently beneficial use one the positive criteria is presumptively satisfied and two the negative criteria is evaluated by determining if there are substantial negative impacts or impairments as a direct result of the proposed improvements and if there are conditions that can be crafted to mitigate those perceived impacts or impairments Mr Barry has just demonstrated through his testimony that both the positive and negative criteria has been satisfied justifying the relief requested as a result of this propos proposal I'm not going to repeat all of that testimony but I will focus on the impacts to the neighbors those impacts will be a substantial improvement over existing conditions the additions will match up to the existing Heights of the buildings they have been designed to comply with with the city's design guidelines they have a more residential feel and for the most part are interior to the site or shielded by other buildings on site it is also difficult to perceive the additional coverages in F from any one spot on site um because of the topography with an upper and lower campus and the fact that the the buildings are dispersed throughout the site the storm water management proposed is in excess of what is required and will account for more more and will account for the additional impervious coverage sorry and will I I handw wrote this and so it's a little the storm water management proposed is in excess of what is required and will more than account for the additional impervious coverage proposed the plan will also allow the school to retain the captured runoff on site longer which will reduce Peak flow rates and be an improvement over existing conditions the perimeter views of the property on lned Blackburn and by Tisa Hall are all being improved with landscaping and again has agreed to a condition to increase that Landscaping the Landscaping on Blackburn will shield the parking area the landscaping and new fence by Tisdale will screen the new addition and detention Basin and the lned road perimeter will be cleaned up and improved dramatically with a new fence and Landscaping this Landscaping will act to screen the improvements beautify the site and is designed to be consistent with the residential feel of the neighborhood 72 Prospect Street house is being maintained to keep the existing residential features of the exterior and the property and I I guess we disagree with the the neighbors that are here tonight um but the most impactful is the increase of 31 on-site parking spaces which will reduce the impact of parking on Perimeter roads while maintaining the existing circulation patterns all of these benefits are a direct result of this proposal and will have substantial positive impact on on the surrounding neighborhood and our in furtherance of the goals and objectives outlined in the plan and the master plan of the city of summit which include um to maintain and upgrade the availability of Community Resources for residents through Modern and efficient facilities including schools promoting a desirable visual environment providing for adequate parking encouraging the efficient management of storm water and encouraging the preservation of historic buildings great that's it thank you so much Miss ol um due to the late hour we are not going to go into executive session tonight nor vote on this application uh so we are going to carry it to a future date I just have a question um so at that future date will we allow public comments or question at that time or is it strictly deliberation and a vote it'll be executive session and a vote okay then we could do February 19th 20 oh you're right than you what date the 20th February 20th I had the old date on here so in the meantime Miss ol I would strongly advise you to talk to your clients about um amending this application that does not have a parking lot at 76 Prospect thank you okay noted could we also have the well I guess that kind of affects the lighting design because they're supposed to produce a lighting design do we have to see that I think as long as theyve committed to complying with okay I I would also recommend to the extent possible you know we've talked about evaluating whether the lights can be dimmed can be turned off at a certain hour on motion sensors if we could have a proposed condition for lighting on the site by that next hearing I I think that would help us understand what what exactly is being proposed there okay um and I would also ask Council to confirm that you're waving the time frame for the board to act yes and I imagine requesting that the matter be carried without notice yes please excellent can I get a motion to carry can I get a second second whatever so Don and then Joe second okay take your pick Mr Steiner yes Mr Nelson yes Mr Malay Mr Chuli yes Mr ning yes chairman L yes the motion carries okay we have some business to attend to yes we have a few resolutions and the minutes the first resolution we have is for six Garden Street that's Michael and isumi sidowski block 40 4711 lot 7 zb- 24-2 267 the eligible voting members are chairman lits Vice chair Zan Mr Steiner Mr Yugo Mr Nelson Mr Kieran and Miss chiefo can somebody move that move I'll second okay Mr Steiner yes chairman lth yes Mr yes the motion carries the next one we have is 230 Oak Bridge Avenue Thomas and Allison McMillan block 5106 lot 13 that's zb- 24- 2264 I'm sorry I just want to stop for one second um Miss s do you mind just giving me the exhibits or who them to you tomorrow but I also need the hard copies too I need [Music] both I have the Landscaping ones actually I don't have that one yeah that's the one I was missing whatever you don't have I'll make sure thank you yes okay sorry I'll continue um the eligible voting members for 230 Oakridge are Mr Steiner chairman lit Mr Yuko Mr Nelson Vice chair Zan Mr Kieran and Mr Malay can we have a motion move and a second second okay I think it's just you Steiner yes chairman lits yes Mr Nelson yes and Mr Malay yes the motion carries the last one we have is for 29 Ridge Road that's Elena Holdings LLC block 2201 Lot 25 zb- 24- 2245 the eligible voting members are Mr Steiner chairman lit Mr Nelson Vice chair Zan and Miss Cho can we have a motion so moved I'll take Mr Nelson and a second somebody someone no it can't be anyone on this side over here actually so it's you then got to be so moved whatever I just moved second that's the second for 29 Bridge uh Mr Steiner yes chairman lit yes Mr Nelson yes the motion carries and then finally we have the minutes I sent them out to you guys earlier today I hope everyone had a chance to look them over um so who's that he Mr Steiner okay so Mr Steiner will move it and a second second and we'll do a Voice vote but we will exclude Mr Malay because he wasn't present all those in favor I any opposed great can I get a motion to adjourn so Mo okay and a second second who favor have