e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e e e e e good evening we need that good evening
and welcome to the March 3rd 2025 meeting of the city of summit Zoning Board of adjustment my name is Miriam Zan and I'm the vice chairperson of the zoning board filling in for our uh chairman Scott lus please rise and join
us in the Pledge of Allegiance pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all
thank you in accordance with New Jersey statute 10 col 4-10 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided to newspaper of record and has been posted here in City Hall this meeting is a Judicial proceeding any questions or comments must be limited to the issues
that are relevant to what the board May legally consider in reaching a decision and deorum appropriate to a Judicial hearing must be maintained at all times for the benefit of the interested public this meeting is being live streamed to the city's YouTube page and also
broadcast on summit's government Channel which is Comcast channel 34 and Verizon channel 30 a transcript of this meeting is also being taken using the video and audio so we need all speakers to utilize one of the microphones in the room please note that the fire exits are to
my right your left in the back of the room where you entered the city has a listening system to assist the hearing impaired if anyone needs hearing assistance please please obtain the system at the deis and return it thereafter uh tonight we have uh Miss
cotigo as um who is a city employee she's filling in as the zoning board secretary um Miss cotigo can you please call the role of the members Mr Kieran is excused chairman lyas is excused Mr Malay is expected but
however not present at this time Mr Nelson here Mr Steiner here Mr Mr Yugo oh Mr Yugo is excused Vice chair Zan here miss chfo here Mr feskin is
excused Mr Chuli here Mr ning here thank you Andy ball is the zoning board's attorney Mr ball advises the board members on matters of Law and is the key interface with the applicants attorney Mr ball does not vote on the
applications Nicole cotigo is as we mentioned filling in for the zoning board secretary she works with applicants on preparing their applications planning our agendas and keeping our meeting minutes Miss cotigo also does not vote on the applications
also present are experts who are hired annually by the board to provide input to the board tonight we have Marie rafay from Coler Engineering also present is Ed snik from Burgess Associates our board planner these experts are seated at the table to the right of the board
The public's left they do not vote on the applications our board consists of seven regular members and up to four alternates all members can participate in the hearings tonight but a maximum of seven can vote most applications require
a simple majority to be approved before we enter executive session to vote on the application you will be advised how many votes are required each case will begin with the applicant's attorney giving an overview of the application process to date and
the variances that are required we then hear from any additional expert Witnesses the applicant may have to help explain the application and why the variances are needed the board members may ask questions of the applicant their attorney and the expert witness uh we just want to point out that the board
has carefully reviewed all of the plans so we ask the applicants to provide a concise presentation so that we have the possibility of completing your case in one session if possible once the board members and the board professionals have completed their questioning the public
will have the opportunity to ask questions this is not the time to tell us what you think about the case that opportunity comes at the end of the hearing please be careful as to how you phrase your questions they should not be proceeded with a statement about the case but should be a direct question to
the witness also before you ask your questions please clearly state your name spell your last name and provide your address it is important that our court reporter be able to keep a clear and accurate public
record after all Witnesses have been heard members of the audience will have their second opportunity to speak and at that time you may express your opinion positive or negative about the application then the public hearing is closed and we enter into executive session where the board members discuss
the case and vote you will be able to listen to our executive session but you will not normally be able to participate in our discussion the City Zoning officer has asked that we remind all applicants that they must carefully read the resolution that documents the zoning
board's decision and to pay particular attention to the conditions contained in the resolution for example if a landscaping plan is required you must obtain one and submit it to John linsen the city Forester if a grading plan is required you must have one prepared by a
civil engineer and submit three copies along with the application fee to the city's engineering division failure to satisfy all conditions a resolution will result in a delay in approving your application as it will cause extra work for City Zoning staff the resolutions
documenting the board's decision will normally be available one month after we decide the case and we'll begin this evening just um to hear representatives from um each of the cases to hear how long you
believe uh your testimony will be uh 27 Edgar I think we believe that's going to be more than 30 minutes so yes sure okay 49 tulip do we have a representative from 49 Tulip Street yes we'll
be okay and 67 Dale Drive yes do you think you can complete it within less than 30 minutes I have to come up you have to come no mic okay oh sorry yes come to the mic okay sure yes hi I'm the architect um you'll be able to complete
less than 30 minutes thank you and um six lelen Road yes sorry stuck in the back there yeah hi stepen H representing the applicants okay will you be able to complete within 30 minutes we'll do our best all right thank you no thank you so we are going
to start with 49 Tulip Street while we're while we wait for Mr mle so that that one does have a d variance as well sense so we'll start 67 67 Dale right okay all right so we'll swear the applicants
in first if you could each raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matter the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do and one at a time please state your name spell your last name Katherine Rosenthal r o s e n t h a
l Todd Rosenthal r o s e n t h a l thank you and can you just tell us a little bit about your application what you're looking for tonight so we been to the zoning board before and first of all I just want to say we apologize for
putting the board in this position we were originally approved for a variance and the project was not built to the specifications of the original variants um so we are back to figure out what we need to do to become in compliance um with the
T thank you and you have one expert tonight or yes we have our architect here help us navigate the process and you'll need to swear him in yep all right you swear from the testimony you're about to give this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do and please
state your name spell your last name thank you Daniel dubinet du u b i n e TT thank you and I know you obviously appeared us the last time you were here yeah I think the last time I was here was in 2022 for the Rosen THS uh any
changes to your credentials since that last time amazingly no any question questions from the board would you like to accept them once again we accept thank you thank you um if I may I'd like to hand out a quick exhibit um which
reflects the drawings that you do have plus some additional photographs that I was able to take yes um A1 yep just pass it can get started well thank you very much so back in 2022 we went for seeking a variance
to put a a covered deck in the back of the house plus a patio and there were two variances needed for that application uh one was rear yard setback um and the other one was lck coverage so we had the deck constructed and then
during the process uh with the patio um it got a little it changed it changed and the reason it changed is I think when they I wasn't involved in the construction end of it but I think what happened was which happens a lot when you lay out your patio that you want
it's hard to it's hard to get it designed right on paper so they decided to make some changes that they thought would benefit the patio and not realizing the nuances of the variance
that we had saw which was Lot coverage so the first image you're seeing is the survey that was presented a few years ago and you could see off on the left is the covered deck that did not change um
but the patio I was trying to as an architect try to make it fit within the 31 ft setback and then we had these stepping stones from from the driveway that would lead you to the back so during construction they decided Well let's take the square footage we don't
need those Stepping Stones let's increase the the patio a little bit because that would be more functional so the first page is what we had a few years ago with the 38.7%
ask um just a quick note is that the existing was about 38.7 so we um the deviation now I take it to the second page and so we eliminated you can see there we eliminated the stepping stones that walk along the side of the house
and after when they're getting for their final inspections they had to have as built done and then that's when they discovered well it got a little bit bigger than it was uh planned and so it certainly works very well and flows really well and the this drawing
is from the surveyor and the after having some conversations after finding out that we we we need to come back to the board we looked uh to see how we could take what was built already and maybe make it a little bit um more beneficial for the board and reduce the
block coverage so the pink area is what I propose that we're going to remove from the existing patio that's there now so the reduction is about 138 sare ft overall brings us to a lock coverage of 4.46% and 35% is
required the next photograph I'd like to just take you through cuz I think that explains the project better these are uh three photographs that I took at the job site and they accurately depict what was built so you see in the top left
photograph obviously you can see the covered porch that was built and the existing patio the red dotted lines is what we indicated that we could remove without uh too much trouble and of course it's a numbers game so it would
help with the numbers in that image you also see the nice screening that's around there um the the picture to the right upper right is showing this one uh
shows that the patio just extends a little bit past the deck but you can see that the we sit up at a higher elevation than the rest of the neighbors especially the neighbors behind us so the no one can see us and we're we're very well screened and so there there's
no negative impact by allowing this uh to remain and and the board agrees that we could take off 140 sare ft but in the upper right picture what I wanted to show also um there are significant uh yard drains for drain and storm water
management so we're very lucky we were able to have landscape drains connected directly to the storm water management for the town so there's no issues with the the extra impervious coverage in terms of storm water management we're
very well covered in the bottom right picture is just another view of how we're so private for the Neighbors um couple interesting things that haven't changed since a few years ago which is the shallowness of the backyard
uh the way the house was exist the the orientation of the house as it exists in the site was pushed back very far so it leaves us a very shallow shallow backyard so the Pao that we put in is about 14 ft deep not very large um but
that triggers a rear yard setback at 25.35 FT um but again there's no negative impact to the neighbors or the neighborhood and and a couple other things that make this a little bit unique is the lot coverage
a lot of it goes to the driveway so we inherited when they purchased a home uh a circular driveway they eats up about 2,000 ft of block coverage so it's not excessive the ask or what they had done in terms of it doesn't seem very
egregious it seems like a bit of a misdemeanor and they apologize for that I think they could testify more about how that happened during construction that I could but what I can tell you is that it's very well screened the elevation makes it uh almost impossible
for anybody else to to see the patio it's very modest in size it's certainly very functional for them and that the storm water management is is perfect and that there' be no negative impact to the surrounding
properties and they humbly ask for your forgiveness that's the application in front of you okay we will um hear any comments and questions from our experts
first so I um could you just talk a little bit more about that that storm drain um that you're connecting from your house to or from the house to the um storm drain that's in the back yes um is that being added or it's already there there's
three uh very large Inlet that's now that connects directly to the town storm water system so there's a um an inlet it looks like on this plan there's an inlet right over the um the town's storm drain yes
so there's a one that's right over the uh storm drain and there's two others that are outside that but they're both connected to that and they're collecting roof Water by those roof leaders yeah if I could let Todd uh
who was involved in the installation of it maybe respond I I yes so the leaders go under the patio into the the drain and they're they're collecting the roof runoff correct so is
it the the roof run from the entire house or do you know if it's just the back portion of the house I presume just the back and sides I would okay were those added on as part of the original approval or were those there
already um I believe it was just done uh as part of the original plan just to hide them under the patio okay I know we had them video inspected I think maybe with the engineering department I'm not sure exactly um but I remember we did
have to go through that yeah two of the inlets were pre-existing when we bought the home and we add a third as part of the construction okay all right thank you question just to clarify a few things the raised deck that you originally got
approval for that is the same Dimension yes yeah that did not change and then the deck the walkway that goes around the deck towards the rear yard where is is that aligning currently with a staircase that wraps up around that side
yes so yes so the P the the the new the old patio is going to land at the bottom of steps then sneak underneath the deck and so this one is like about F feet past the deck which felt way more comfortable as a flow to get to the patio so that lines
up with the walkway uh with the staircase yes excuse me with the staircase the the other walkways that are being reduced that are off on the right hand side or I guess the easterly side of the property what is the minimum Dimension that you have that you're
going to remain with uh for this new alignment yeah so coming out of the house there's two two uh points of egress so we figured we you can see in the photograph it's about 4 and 1/2 we're going to take it to 3 and 1/2 ft wide 3 and A2 yeah okay I just want to make sure that
yes so the 3 one2 will be the width of the doorway and then it will wrap around that same Dimension around the planters that you have in the back area yes okay and then come to the alignment of the one planter as the reduction of that other section of the Pao right okay
thank you no further question questions from the board I just um couple things what what when were these pictures taken they look like they're summer they're not they're from last fall like right before the fall so
fall 2024 right yes okay um and the you're removing the stepping stones that come from the driveway around to the back those were never built yeah so you okay you're not you're not going to do that so we realized the patio was a little
that was the discussion with the contractor we could make it a little bit larger if we didn't use the square footage from the stepping stones and that is now why we're in this predicament so so the Stepping Stones I mean they served the purpose that you thought to go from the driveway to the
back so now you're just are you going to just you don't you feel a need you don't have a need for those anymore I think it's acceptable the way it is okay and the other question did you ever consider um getting rid of the circular driveway and just making a regular driveway so that you could open
up some more lock coverage we did consider that the last time we talked to the board I think it would be really challenging for me to maneuver in and out of the driveway with the way the house and the garage are positioned um and therefore that's why we left the
square footage and also it would just if you see the front of the house it would be very strange and I think a little unsafe I feel like i' probably hit my car okay thank you um if I may the
um what is the uh the number of U you've given us statistics on if you remove it if you leave it where it is yes what are our numbers thank you uh if we leave it we're at 41. 36% which we would love to do but I
figured uh versus what versus 40.4 6 it was a reduction of 138 138 ft cuz I think we have to look at this as if you had come to us yes would we have approved it in 2022 the
way it got built much more than we uh uh U you know taking stuff sometimes taking stuff out isn't as good as leaving it where it is um I would wonder whether or not it would be appropriate to uh especially as
we're we don't know how this drainage is all working if we retain drainage control for a period of time um so that uh if indeed there was a problem um down the road uh with one of
your neighbors uh that this could be something that they would have uh recourse for is that something that might be appropriate i' ask our consultants if that works um yeah in in fact um that's why I was
trying to ask testimony about um how those drains came to be there and it looks like they were added in later on so there's an they already did an improvement on um the improved lot coverage but did the
city improve it getting put into their kind of be my question like like I I I can't answer that and maybe that would be something the maintaining jur jurisdiction over for a period of time would uh would deal with that and my other question is your pictures very
nicely show how uh well you are screened from your neighbors uh but you're much higher how are your neighbors screen from you and I don't see any Visual Evidence of that uh well the neighbor did you
talk to your neighbors and did we uh hear from them and uh what kind of uh testimony would they be G giving in are any of them here tonight I do not see any of my neighbors here tonight we did
plant a a row of like um what are those trees skip Laurels at the back of the property we put up three trees on the lateral side and one tree in the back um so and I think we got a nice comment from the Forester who went out there who
said everything is very adequately screened um we are friendly with our neighbors uh there has been no issues with the storm water it's been built like this for some time while we waited
to come back here we've had you know there's been no issues whatsoever are you just to clarify are you just asking if our neighbors have said anything about the visibility or anything all that you would like to share with us I mean I've look into the
houses that surround our property everyone has complemented the Aesthetics and the additional trees and I have not heard no one's told you it's too large and you that they' like you to take out 138 Square ft no one has theyve said
anything negative about the construction okay thank you I'm a little torn here but um we say everything's sh very well um uh screen thank you I was losing my
thought there from it but yet in the picture you can clearly see the neighbors playground set yeah which is I guess which is probably I'm not going down that path it's not us to them but them to us and so um we did three trees there there was
also already a deck before we built this patio that had the same visibility as the patio that we've built it is a little bit larger um and we did put up trees which right now obviously they don't go to the top of the deck um but
that neighbor in particular I'm very friendly with her she has complimented the deck she has been over on the deck and has not expressed any concerns about visibility from her side and one thing we did do just as a design feature at the lower portion of
the deck the Privacy Screen yeah which is is pretty but it also provides the Privacy that white fence little slat wall Mr Chuli did you have a question yeah I'm just curious on when this was being
install how was it not noticed that yeah wasn't comp I mean you have to notice that if somebody had to say okay go ahead do it yeah the conversation really was just and listen I am by no means an expert that is why
we have Danny here to help us with this it was just with my landscape hey you know if you get rid of this walkway you can have a little bit more functional square space in the patio and I said oh that sounds like a great plan let's do it and then I looked at the patio and we
realized it was too big and we knew that we were going to have to come back and we were very upset and we're here then we started talking about well if we remove a part then there's a rear side yard set there's all these setback and rules and different things and we did
not want to do that We Rule followers I did not think this was going to be a a big issue and it is and I have 100% learned my lesson and we are extremely sorry for the error and I do take responsibility for that I you know when you see things in person and you look at
them on that paper it's you know it's a little different and I agree with you it it was built too big but you know it was just I thought oh he knows what he's doing he calculated that that should be fine I when was The Patio built in 20
the construction finished in 2024 in the spring correct it's buil back and if I'm looking at this picture on the left correctly yeah you're going to have to rip out the entire
border yes and at least one row of bricks or pavers all the way around and probably one and a half because you got to put the the quarter
back right um so you're almost going to wind up with a walkway rather than patio well we're we're happy to have on the left in this initial phase over here yeah on the upper left I think there's no
expectation that's entertaining space it was just a generous wide walkway that we would be happy to I if it if it helped mitigate things to to do that if I I definitely as a architect I see no
uh negative impact by leaving it or change but to to kind of bend the knee that that seems like a thing but be happy to leave it I I have two questions um one is you did have to get a d
variance in 2022 correct so you knew right for or no sorry C variance you had to get a variance for the setback and the lot covered so you did know what the process was to get approval and you built the bigger patio
anyway okay so I just kind of want to say that that's to me that's something that really needs to be highlighted because um it would be one thing if you didn't know and you oops it was an accident but you were very close to the situation yeah but I didn't I didn't know how it
was going to be impacted and for that I am I knew that there was impervious coverage and I didn't at the end of the day it is 100% my fault so I will yes the second question and I don't think we have Clarity on this is that third storm
drain that was put in is that something that you guys put in to help your yard drain because typically we don't get to connect to the city storm sewer without we have to do our own storm water management like on site so I'm just
wondering about the permitting for that the landscaper did that um as part of the retaining wall that was done earlier okay but that was permitted and inspected that was thing was done in
2020 the third the third drain yes two were existing when we purchased the property one was added is that the same landscaper that did the patio it is yes we're not thrilled with probably one not to yes but you do have
a permit for that a storm water permit for that cuz we don't have any I don't think we have any permited the retaining wall um I'm not sure about the specifics okay I think I might be a little overly
stringent here but I would feel better with a more than um a good enough drainage system especially with what our vice chairperson just mentioned um so could we make it condition that we make sure that's permitted that the um third
storm drain is has was approved by permit as opposed to add it after the ranian wall was was approved is there something we can do along those lines they can either submit proof that it has received a permit specifically for that drain or or if not
seek that permit from the city yes I think that would be a great idea oh sorry so just to clarify so there was no storm water management system put in for the extra impervious cover that was added CU that would be this is 300
square feet of patio so that is that actually triggers storm water management as well and I'm not sure that the storm water management is allowed to be running off into the storm sewer is that correct well that's that's what I'm not
I'm not sure I I don't I don't have proof that they received permission to tie into it um you know I don't know that would be something I I I don't know if that would happen with the proof
um that they were given permission that would be something that would be able to come up if they went into the town records and pulled that permission out I'd like to see that as a condition condition yeah I think that um you know I I just haven't seen a case
where we're like or in the you know that people are allowed to connect to the storm sewer as in lie of storm water management that they have to do on site where people are putting in retention basins and things like that so I don't know that that was specifically requested as part of the prior project
well yeah but now you've added 300 extra square and actually is it just to clarify that was my other question so it's 303 Square ft extra after you remove the 138 squ ft after we move so it's 438 ft over right now right
267 uh and then if we add back in the 138 26 yeah so about 400 square ft yeah but I think that's a good condition that we satisfy the well engine what I'm alluding to is is is your word were that
the storm water management is adequate not exactly I'm not quoting you but what does adequate mean I me it's actually like my adequate if I have a fire I mean right you know no I would say I've never seen a a more perfect system now it was
it allowed and approved and how to get there but that's a direct line there so all so do all of these drains drain right into that storm sewer I think so I I wasn't involved I mean think
so let's leave it as a condition I'm sure it's been I'm sure it's been approved but I'm still a little troubled by that and yeah I feel like that should be I'm not even sure about it as a condition because it's sort of something we should know should be part of yeah that should be part of this application
already which um which drain were you saying was actually approved with the retaining wall Construction in 2020 there those two are pre-existing and this one was the one that was added these other ones must have been there for
decades so it's by looks like fence backy dra he's motioning to the drain that's next to the fence on the right hand side the other two drains must have been there for many many years okay um so we're actually are we
talking about two different construction projects 2020 2022 and 2024 am I correct so you did the retaining wall when like 2020 2021 right
so that's an earlier project done and finished then you did the one that you got the application that and the resolution that we have in front of us from the zoning board so that's construction number two that's it and that's it and now you're back here for the this
is still part of number two though yeah in any of the what what were permit obtained with the 20120 yes but we did not need to come to the zoning board for that first raining wall project we only
came to the zoning board when we where where did you go we had it was just submitted and approved construction permits and no variances required no yeah there was no variance involved there was no planning involved there was
but there was no approval to attached to the dra I don't think we know the answer we don't know nobody knew that because you you're saying your landscape just did no we're not saying our landscapers submitted plans to the town and those plans were
approved and I don't know if he specifically asked for the for the maybe we need that evidence to see what it is and we may need to come back and look at this again yeah either we could request that you know that be confirmed or that
the way I see the potentially address it as conditions is as we've noted that they either submit the proof or if they don't have the proof was permitted get a permit and if they can't get a permit for that drain and they need to then compensate by providing storm water
management they have to submit a storm water management plan which would then be subject to City review and approval so that's one way we could address it if we wanted to potentially vote on this tonight alternatively if you think it's necessary to see everything ahead of
time that's up to the board that all depends on how large the patio remains or right it's still over 300 square feet which has been added correct they take the the piece out it's still 303 303
after talkt but 300 is the level that triggers storm water management requirements well and they're already over lot coverage the last time and I don't think there was stormm Water Management done as part of that so it's
because we were existing non forming yeah um I think yeah we we the conditions that we satisfy engineering make sure that the storm water management if wasn't done
correctly is done correctly so then my question for the board is then do we still are they still going to be required to remove the 138 square feet or will they stay where they're at get the management that's my that's kind going to my thoughts will depend upon whether
or not okay stuff was done properly or somehow other errors were made and uh how much forgiveness I'm willing to give depends upon the evidence I think it's hard to put that in as a condition and I think that I'm not will the application
is here my my feeling is the application is here at 33 ft square feet right so if if you want if that if we're trying to keep the whole thing then I feel like we need answers and we can't vote on it tonight we could probably vote on it based on this but that's just one too
many unknowns then to go how do you know what your answer is going to be when you find out if do if your answer changes based on 400 squ feet or 300 square feet then I don't think we can vote on it we could probably vote I that's my feeling
I don't know I see what you're saying um I guess we should ask are there any question any com questions from the public too before we is that so seeing none um do we want
to move into and any comments from the public yes any comments I was just curious oh comments of the public yeah public comments um so would we' like to move into executive session now
or and just decide that's yeah up to the board on whether we want to proceed whether we think it's necessary to see additional proofs prior to a vote addition proof additional proof you want
additional I don't I don't know how to word this but I'll try my best um the the people that are seeking a resolution here um there's a resolution for them by removing it back to where their original plan was to avoid all
this uh or if they want to move forward for the larger walkway my understanding is that they have to provide storm water management storm water storm water management plan is that what we're talking about is that what we're thinking well we have to find out how the storm waterers managed was was it
permitted or did they just connect to the drain um but that could absolutely be a condition of approval that it's certified if it's not correct then we may it correct I mean I I I think we have to get
proof when I see when you see an example of a contractor that does something like this you have to think maybe he's done other stuff that
wasn't compliant and we need to verify that okay all right so it seems like the majority of the board is suggesting that the best way to proceed is review that confirm whether you've gotten that permit um confirm whether you're able to
get a permit if you don't have one and if not it sounds like we would need a storm water management plan to address the impervious coverage and that's really not something that can be addressed all in one tonight so are you willing to go through that process carry
it until the next available meeting so you can go through that route and confirm it so just to confirm if we need to see if we got a permit for for the little one extra Inlet is that correct is that what I'm I I think what the Bo
and correct me if I'm wrong but I think what the board is looking to see is that you you were given permission to connect into that that um 10inch drain that's in the backyard that traverses your backyard there were inlets that were put
into there and there's um there's also roof leaders that you connected to that and I think the board would like to see that um permission was given by the town to directly Connect into those I think we might have been specifically asked to do that in our first project and we provide the town with a video inspection
of the work so I do think we had permission so we would be happy to go back and find that would be if we didn't do that obviously would like to do that so that would not be my intent to not do that so what do we need a motion to
carry without notice to when yeah I think our next available date June 2nd so that gives enough time enough time to review the permit status and potentially get a permit if you don't have one already and see if that's you know a possibility otherwise I would
recommend that a storm water management plan be prepared for that June second can I ask one question just even if we did this it sounds like well I guess that's even if the patio is over 300 Square fet we still need additional
storm water management to on top of this so it's validating this and also doing additional storm water management well no if I understand it correctly if you have a permit to connect to that drain to the storm water system that that covers storm water for this project
right Mar I would agree yeah thank you the permit would have been for a much smaller patio so if your patio is bigger you just have to also confirm that it's acceptable we need to know that permission was granted yes three of those lines tie in not just the one
right for all the all the drainage on the property that has that you guys have connected to just basically okay all right so just to clarify then when no additional notice for the next meeting June 2nd is the
next available date and you're waving the board's time frame to act in this matter yes yes okay so Mo thank you everybody thank you oh hang on we need a second second
second okay thank you wait now we need to vote um Mr is not here Mr Nelson yes Mr Steiner yes Miss chfo yes Mr tanuli yes Mr nering yes Vice chair Z
yes okay and Mr Malay is not here this evening um we have notice so we will proceed with the testimony for 27 Edgar is that correct that's the plan and then we'll plan on voting at the next meeting is that that that will be up to the
applicant on once we get through the testimony it's their option to because there's only six voting members and uh five are required to approve a d variance they will tell us whether they want to proceed with deliberations at that point or carry till the next meeting when it's um you know a full
membership of the board yes Mr ball that's correct James first on behalf of the applicant sh as described we would like to proceed tonight proceed before the six members present uh I recognized five of the faces I don't think I recognize yours hello on June 1st good evening nice to meet you um uh we'll proceed with the
testimony uh and then at the conclusion of that I'll just consult with my client as to whether or not we would like the board to go into an executive session this evening or would we like to refrain from that have Mr Malay review the video and then come back next meeting for the vote um my plan this evening uh
chairwoman uh since it has been quite some time we were here in December uh so my thought would be to quickly uh summarize our case uh Mr Clark had completed his testimony previously but I wanted him to just give a quick summary of his testimony to remind the board
about the application uh and then we would have two additional Witnesses uh we would have our architect and then we would have Mr seckler our planner uh if you recall chairwoman the application is a single uh lot in the R15 Zone uh it is
about 16,000 ft of a lot uh as your ordinance allows uh the proposal before the board uh is for a 3unit town home uh that is an allowable use uh the issue and the reasons that we are here are because of our setbacks and it's an
odd-shaped lot uh but the reality is uh what it is is a density question uh and the density in this particular circumstance uh presents us with the D variants uh what's unique and you'll hear Mr seckler talk about that uh is that if we were to reconfigure this uh
not as three town homes set next to each other but as an apartment complex where we had it as an apartment uh we would not be here before a d variance we would still need uh the bulk variances and the setback issues uh but just an in interesting Nuance in your ordinance the
ordinance would actually prefer this uh to be an apartment building uh as opposed to three tow houses which the applicant has chosen not to do uh so I think it's important uh there were also some concessions made um and I know there was a question from someone about uh what was going to happen with the
neighbor um Mr cerola the principal of the owner uh had uh met on numerous occasions with the neighbor to the right of the property uh whose driveway encroached Upon Our lot uh there was a presentation made to him some back and fourth uh there's actually a formal
presentation which Mr cerola uh agreed to uh signed uh so that we would be able to allow that owner to have a full driveway that would park two cars uh and no longer have the need on our lot uh I know the neighbor to the left also was
concerned about drainage uh so if you recall we can seed that the town would maintain um uh uh storm water jurisdiction for a period of two years I know some of the board members uh also had concerns about the location uh of the trash enclosure and the manner in
which recycling would go out uh there will be one change uh in that regard which I'll address so uh that's just a brief summary to get everybody back to recalling before the holidays uh I know Mr Clark had previously been sworn uh he was uh admitted as an expert I can go through his credentials again and have
him reworn if that's necessary need he remains sworn and under great uh Mr Clark if you would please summarize for us um what uh what the application is about uh I don't think we need to go through topographical things let's just get everybody back and uh in the view of
what our applications yeah so I have uh as reference the site plan that was presented previously uh prepared by me with the revision date of September 4th 2024 just to refresh everyone's memory
uh briefly um as indicated we're in the multi family zone so the the multif family use is permitted we have setback variances based on the the uh positioning of the proposed dwelling units with the side yards and the rear
yard and also the front yard although we have um something closer to conforming with the front yard um we have an access Drive Mr Clark you're you're calculating the front yard is actually the end of the driveway yeah as as I indicated in my testimony before um
counting it from the street would only bring the setback to halfway up the stem so I've treated it as this uh line that's 100 ft back and that's how I viewed it and that's how I treated it as a variance in terms of the setback for the front
yard um but the proposal is to create the driveway coming up that stem and have parking spaces to the left and the right and then garages for each unit um one garage unit for each dwelling unit
um the storm water management will be in the center of the parking area and the drive aisle is four tank system to collect and manage the entire roof area and the entire paved area of the driveway and the pavement um so it's a
very robust system in that regard um we're framing the back corner and leveling off the sloped area with a a retaining wall um some of the conversation last time uh centered around the neighbor to the
right on lot 57 and as indicated there's been some ongoing discussion with that neighbor to reorient the landing um as indicated on my plan so the steps are not projecting into what would be the the driveway area
but projecting instead we're going to reorient the steps to face the street and then there's enough room when you do that to have a driveway uh right next to that on that property that would park two vehicles um another point of discussion
was the garbage and recycling and I think one of the recommendations or or um questions suggestions from the board at the time was would it be possible to uh relocate the AC units on the two left units the one on the right is already on the side and perhaps have
some accommodation for um Recycling and garbage cans in those areas that's actually um something I looked at I think it's a very good idea and would fit in nicely in this Arrangement uh it would eliminate the
need for the 9x9 enclosure that's uh uh next to the parking spaces on the left side and it would uh basically isolate those contain contained areas which could be uh fitted to match the architecture and you know look nice and
have some landscaping around it it um that would be in the areaa of where those AC units are on the two left and then just to the right of the doorway on the right unit and so that would enable that to be managed in a much more um
diffuse way that wouldn't have the mass or the uh imposition of that 9 by9 enclosure and also added benefit becomes that if we then just square that area off we get another parking space so we'd have an addition parking space we're
already over the the requirement so this would just be one additional space that would further reduce any uh potential burden on the roadway or the neighborhood for uh the residents and even a certain amount of visitors um so that's that's one change
that we did look at and consider in um are proposing to implement in the plan uh the change in lock coverage is about less than 200 square ft and we're well under what's permitted and also are um presenting a very um substantial storm
water management system so I don't think the additional coverage is any kind of U meaningful impact or concern with regards to zoning um and that that that summarizes the top level you know application and I just wanted to bring us all back onto
the same page and make sure um we sort of remembered being a few months ago where we're at uh we also did agree to uh the condition to submit a landscaping plan to Mr Linson if approved uh for his
review and approval um following uh the application process uh Mr Clark I think there was testimony previously uh assuming we didn't ask for any variances could we build something on this law of any kind of substantial nature that would fit to the neighborhood no not
with the the assigned setbacks would create a a building envelope that's so um shallow that you couldn't actually put a meaning F structure um aside from like a shed or small garage maybe thank
you so uh do our experts have any questions for the witness the last two witnesses I guess so I just wanted to um are you saying that you're eliminating entirely the dumpster enclosure or are
you just modifying it eliminating it in in fact in the location where it's currently shown we would just simply square off the back and and render that as an an additional parking space okay so um there is no dumpster enclosure
correct um being proposed anywhere so there'll be probably 3 or 4 feet deep by 7 or 8 ft wide enough to fit a few cans um Recycling and some garbage cans enclosures in front of each
unit okay um and are you confident that um if you were to update the dryw calculations that you would still be able to have enough volume that's in there for
sure um I think that's and oh could you could you talk a little bit more about that um that driveway stem um you're suggesting that the driveway would then be
18 in 18 ft wide the whole length of that stem right except for where we're in common with the neighbor on the right right so so at the back of their house the fence comes out and then goes along the line so this area in here there'd be
no curve in between and and their driveway would be here next to the the reoriented landing and then and so there'd be this would be continuous here but then there'd be a curve on that side and once you get to the fence it's 18 ft wide okay so the
neighbors's driveway and your client's driveway are all going to be one continuous pay continuous piece yes okay and um is that um in keeping with what's there on the neighbor's property right now yes although now it's more Stone
than paved so it'll clean it up a little bit and uh and formalize it a bit okay um I think that's all I had okay I just want to make sure you're finished I have a few questions you were describing I'm sorry I was trying to research something you were describing
the staircase modifications that was to lot 57 correct okay so what you're saying is that you would modify the neighbor steps correct okay and that reorients them towards Edgar correct is that what would happen that's strike and is that a modification that's not shown
here at this time on well it's shown it's not clearly labeled um so so the existing condition that little Landing that's that's right by the corner of the dwelling the stairs project towards the driveway towards the driveway and so so
what I'm the West correct what I'm showing is just reorienting the steps on that Landing to to uh be directed and come down towards Edgar Street okay and that gives you how much space between that landing and the adjacent property
line uh I think I have it labeled on there 9.8 ft thank you I just have a small copy thank you um and so you're looking at then two tandem parking spaces would be correct provided there that's right all right and then there would be a driveway out to the
street okay in that instance and for the record we've done we've done the calculations to note that the proposed changes to the neighbor lot would not require any Val will be as of R and it should also be clear the neighbor is here I think if he have any questions or if he wants to speak on that point
certainly to can you please just speak into the microphone yeah thank you you would also indicated in your testimony that you would submit a landscaping should the board act favorably on the application so at this time you're not proposing any
specific landscaping for the board to consider in the deliberations of the Varian that's being proposed that's correct okay all right um I think that's all the questions I have for this witness thank you my time questions from the
board yeah um so that new driveway for lot 57 or proposed driveway um where does that drain to will that drain to your drainage system or drain to the street are we adding too much how many square feet are you adding to the driveway it doesn't
drain much right now it's very flat it's very flat um to the extent that any of it is is slightly moving towards our pavement we'll pick up a little bit of that how many square feet which we do now how many square feet is that pavement uh well it's 9.8
by about 40 I a total is probably about 400 sare F feet okay and then why why don't you just make a landscape plan so we can see it well we we we hadn't generated a landscape plan at this point um obviously the property is going to be
landscaped um you know as and any new development would be so again why wouldn't you make a plan Mr Nelson architect will testify he has renderings that do show certain landscape aspects we wanted to hear from the board exactly what would be required or what you would like to see and that would be Our
intention to prepare a landscape plan based on your comments we're going to show you in the rendering an idea and we hopefully get comments and then subit something formal later and then um testimony was given that you're going to place recycling bins in the front of the structures well we'll have enclosure
we'll have an enclosure that that will be attractive and you show me on the picture where you plan to put those so where you have the air conditioner units now you have uh you might want to lift that up so everybody can see CU I don't
think there's room well we haven't introduced this yet but but you know I checked there's room there's there's enough room in here maybe underneath those windows you'd have a an enclosure in there with enough room for three cans recycling and two two Refuge cans and Mr
Nelson that's just our proposal if the board feels that the actual trash enclosure uh is a better use or a better way to operate the property uh we certainly have no issue going with the original plan we did hear comments from the board last time that there was concern about that I know one of the neighbors was concerned that this would
be right behind her property uh so we're presenting this as an alternative uh that the board can create as a condition or or if you'd like to see it the way we've proposed it initially we're certainly willing to keep it as is and and I don't know if you can answer this question or not but uh in your your um
provided photo uh isn't there requirements for uh HVAC units to be so many feet from a window and that might not be your perview but well I I've never heard of that with regards to um air conditioner unit
I do know there is a requirement for emergency generators have to be at least four or 5 ft away from any opening or window opening or doorway um so so that's a little bit different yeah I could be wrong yeah I know it has to be I know the condenser has to be so far
from the structure people often don't like to have them outside their windows but that's more preference than uh than code requirement okay thank you um I have a two questions um you mentioned that that you even if you built on this
property without and to build on this property without have needing any variances you'd only be able to build a shed so if you even if you took the the footprint of the current the house that was on the property and rebuilt that you're saying that yeah it's not it would be still be non-conforming with regards to at least the front and rear
setbacks okay but not obviously not the bulk um I'm sure you're aware that how our Recycling and garbage Works in Summit the garbage go to the back pick the G Pals recycling Pals everybody at least has one so three units three Pals
one driveway how is that going to work on recycling day where are the garbage pales going to be the recycling pales well I'm I'm sure they'll place them right next to the driveway at the end as most people do there's going to be three Pals so
then cars are going to be pulling in and out of the driveway and well we're not going to put them in the driveway no no but I'm saying is on on recycl day you have to bring them out that's right so they'll be I'm just have you thought about that like right now if there there was one house it's one pale it's going to be three Pals at least three Pals
cardboard everything else it's is there enough room to have those Pals and the cardboard and Etc and for people to use you know we we did the calculation so your average trash can is going to be or 24 in or less yeah or or even if it's 3
ft if the exit to the driveway apron is 18 ft if we have them stacked tandem at the end of the driveway I can still have full Ingress and egress because I still have 15 ft of a driveway to drive out and back onto the property so the theory would be that they would be at the end of the driveway stacked tandem so that
the recycling men or women could come take them and then the homeowners would bring them back to their and the homeowners this would be part of the HOA in their packet that they that this is what how recycling must be done I mean yeah I mean that's how recycling Works in Summit so you know no no no in terms of in terms of keeping them in that line
so that they're not blowing all over the street okay thank you yeah I have a question I mean the last time this came up there was a room and there's a room full of
people here now that live on that street was there any attempt to get any feedback from The Neighbors on this project that you're building uh Mr Chuli I can I can state for you that um uh Mr capara who I'm talking about one I'm
talking about the I mean there's the whole street is here and have you weighed any of their feedback on what they think about the project well they didn't specifically State at the last meeting what they talked about I know
that Mr ke Mr the principal met with both of the neighbors who are on each side of the driveway he did not go and have an additional meeting with additional neighbors or he maybe attempted to meet with that neighbor I'm not sure the neighbor with the driveway he met with him on several occasions
including his past Saturday presented a formal proposal he basically only went to two neighbors and disregarded the rest of the street it would be very odd to have an Outreach meeting where we would invite the neighbors to some kind of but when you have that many people in opposition
to so the answer is no we did not do that okay understood um any other questions from the board I just need something refresh from my memory I know last me I think I asked about sprinklers the buildings fully sprink C we we will we will agree to that as a condition yes
Mr Nelson um so I have one question and this might be Mr schnikes might be able to clarify but you had mentioned that if you had built a 3unit apartment building you wouldn't be here for the variance if it
was like a tower is will speak there would not be a density variance because the density allowed for an apartment building is different than townhouse style so the units you would still have the you still have variances
we would still have the issue that we would be able to build about something the size of this table because of the setbacks but if it were to be an apartment proposal that would then uh alleviate the need for the D variant Mr SE has there will be testimony related
to that okay out of the five variances you're looking for there would only be four right yeah the devarian would go away the density would go away so we'd still be going through the we would still be here yes
Mr and again remember based on Mr Clark's testimony no matter what we propose we would be here no matter what we propose yeah if you proposed a single family you would still have setback Varan
okay just another question if I could yes came up from the testimony I just wanted I was not at the last hearing but I believe is the architect going to cover lighting yes yes okay uh as far as fencing is concerned is there any fencing along the driveway being
proposed no no I couldn't quite tell from the details okay there's an existing fence as I indicated on the right side that's a you know it's like a vinyl fence privacy vinyl fence MH yeah it starts about halfway up that that um stem and then frames the the backyard of
lot 57 but nothing on the Westerly side no the the Westerly side as indicated on the survey there's a again starting about halfway up to stem there's a substantial uh screening with arbites that frames um their backyard thank
you okay so uh we're going to open it up for questions from the public for just these two witnesses keeping in mind two things please one only questions two we will be hearing from the arch protect in the planner um after we're done with
questions of these two witnesses so um you know some of the questions may be for the next two witnesses just a clarification cancel is not a witness it's only for Mr Clark at this point yeah okay um so any questions from the public I am Jessica gut
G 29 stre directly in front of this property um there are a few things I'd like to ask about one is are you aware those arbores are in my property yes and those arities are not meant as a buffer for
whatever property ends up going behind my property if I decide to lift up those trees if your parking lot does something to harm my trees I am under no obligation to replant trees I under no
obligation to spend money to protect your buffer zone and nobody has gone to me to ask if I want fencing or screening or discuss any problems I might have with having three structures directly behind my property along with parking
lot I appreciate that you might move the garbage but it is still considerably more garbage I'm Sor sorry that's a statement but the fact that you're using can you make it a question yeah the I want to know if you're aware that
the vegetation is mine it's a buffer zone that isn't necessarily usable for somebody else's property are you aware that nobody has discussed screening with me the property owner or try to make this any nicer considering I have a
child who lives there plays in the backyard just please keep in mind this is questions only your comments about the application will be heard later in the uh the hearing um also are you are you aware of the historical context of the property and why it is only a single
family dwelling in that nelope I'm not aware thatt I'm happy to discuss that when there's time for okay that'll be in comments yeah thank you any other questions from the public for these two witnesses one witness oh
oh one witness sorry one witness clarify no okay seeing none um we'll move on to oh oh one more okay I'm Katherine robenstein r u b i n s h t y n was it K Katherine was it k um
hi hello I think we had a conversation about the width of the street did you have a chance to recheck how uh wide the street is and what the difference I did look at that uh my my estimate from looking at the drawing of 24t is uh
consistent with the curb width out there so it's it's actually not 24 it's five inches less than 24 which are most streets well I mean and it also varies it depends on where you me of course the problem was uh the the the reason I'm asking is again the um Emer comment or
question so question has question please I'm trying to understand if there is emergency on the street the width of the street doesn't really allow much of the traffic and so if if there are um
ambulance nobody on the street can get through so how how do you um given the additional density added to the already Den Street how will that be um um eased on the
neighbors or is it making is it making it more dangerous to have such a large structure on the street because is it to such a narrow Street or um you don't see it as a problem just object to the question
he's not qualified to discuss dangers okay of of a medical propensity as we all know it's the obligation of emergency Personnel to respond to emergencies if the town believes that the street is adequately wide to support the homes that are there then you know that's within their per make additional
changes if they need to yes and oh you have a question yeah okay you have to come to the podium state your name and your address and then you can ask your question okay um Ian sclar last
name spelled SK l a r um I live on 404 jail drive but I'm on behalf of Mrs um Gutman there so um since like the surrounding properties are ranches and this is two store floors have you ever
considered um the interrupting of privacy for the other properties since it like Towers over the other well not really I my opinion it's not towering over um other properties uh in where it's located where it's
situated it's of a permitted height uh most of the dwellings on the street uh are in fact twostory dwellings there are are some ranches that are farther down in the one family but um most of them are not but the surroundings um are one
story the closest surroundings the immediate houses next door well I mean we're not towering over those dwellings we're set back a considerable distance from those dwellings so there's a lot of space in in between the
dwellings I don't perceive tow or massing to be a problem in this case okay thank you for your time thank you any other questions Andrew that's great that they capped for your answer um okay if there are no other
questions then we'll move on to the next witness thank you all right I'll swear you in while we're passing that out if you raise your right hand do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last name my name is H Shan last
name is spell e k h i a n what's your first name please hike h a y k thank you and can you briefly describe your background and experience for the board I'm a licensed architect in the state of uh New Jersey I graduated from NGIT please just make sure you're speaking
into the microphone please I graduated from NGIT uh with a bachelor's of architecture uh I'm currently licensed uh I am the principal of space and Mark architecture which is located at 42 Maple Street uh suit New Jersey I've
appeared in front of this board and other boards numerous times before any questions from the board would you like to accept as credentials I think we'll accept thank you all right go ahead um her turn just passed out an exhibit uh we prepared
renderings of this of all I'm going to mark this is A1 it consists of one four five six s eight nine photographs which are color renderings of the
submitted architectur we have rendered or a visual of the property you show the okay so it'll help you visualize the plans and elevations uh it shows the
property from various angles uh some of the vegetation that we're thinking and um I will go more into the exterior architecture after I present the planes hello it's on you just have to hold it up close you just turned it
off all right um I'd like to start with the first floor plan uh page A2 uh we're proposing a uh three tow houses they're each one is similar to each other and they're modest size homes uh we're
proposing a a single car garage uh that leads to a mud room and a powder room that's tucked away uh for privacy and from there uh you can enter your kitchen put down your groceries and the rest of the space is uh open concept living room
dining room area um the entrance is at the front um you come in and and there's a straight staircase that takes you up and down the house um currently uh the steps uh are encroaching into the single
car garage I believe this is a variance item uh that was questioned um in my experience of designed garages that's 20 by uh 20 foot long and um one or two steps will not um be a problem with the
functionality of the of the garage it does not require a railing or a guard rail guard rail so it could be it's very easily accessible um from any direction we also are proposing a uh EV charger um
and that's um another sustainable uh element for this home um just to clarify it was our intention to make them EV ready but not actually to install the Chargers as as an obligation ofation yes correct correct um and then I'll take it to a second
floor on the second floor we're proposing uh three bedrooms one being the primary Suite with its own walk-in closet and a primary bathroom facing the rear yard and then uh two bedrooms uh uh
with with a closet one has a walk-in closet the other one regular closet a hallway bathroom for those two bedrooms and a laundry room um and then I'll take and then we'll have a attic space and I'll take you
there all right since these are very mod siiz homes we're uh proposing some additional space like a playroom recck room for the children uh to spend time and when you come up this uh stairs you would come into a rec room which will
have a dormer facing the rear yard so it's going to be uh lit lit up uh with sunlight and then there will be another room that could be used as a office or another space um maybe for the parents
um the two end units are the uh same just mired um each one has a window to the side however the center unit because it's sandwich with the two other um houses has just a dormer it's one big
recck room just to go back to the basement now uh when you come down from the first floor you'll have um a mechanical room a flex space another you know recck room um and a a a small area for gym workout
and a and a bath a bathroom for that for that gym and um I will now go to the elevations and you can also see on on the renderings how it's going to look in real
life so what we're trying to do here is break up the facade and there are uh other multif family houses in the area it's monolithic brick structures we're trying to bring in um more character that's uh to to this area and for that
reason we have pulled and pushed the houses uh kind of working with the uh the property lines uh that we have and also we have brought in gable gable roofs and kind of a rhythmic um in a
rhythmic way we we broken it down to seem like at three small houses next to each other rather than one big apartment complex and here you can see uh the colors that we are proposing like wh siding and we're breaking that up with
um a gray siding in between um and you can you can you can find houses of this uh style throughout Summit so I think it'll um it will be in within the character of
our city um and you can see from the backyard um we kept it even even the backyard there's some pushup pull and there's some uh interest in architecture and uh we separated the apartments with
fencing to give them privacy um and place the um place the condenser units in the front so the noise would bother the occupants in the in the in the rear and if you look
through the ren rigs you'll see some of the vegetations that we're thinking about uh we're covering the um covering the um condensers with boxwood bushes hide ranges and on some of the renderings you'll see some ornamental
threes trees at the corners of the building just to soften it up a little bit um in terms of lighting we're going to we're proposing uh lighting at the on top of the garage uh at the doorways uh
where it's required by code uh we will we will provide lighting that that is lit downwards and not to bother anybody else um and let me just also show you the rear elevations
the rear of the property and here you can see the doors that are taking you outside uh it's few steps to a patio area for each each um home to enjoy the backyard uh the backyard faces um I
think an open space it's a school area so um it'll be a nice space for them to you know relax and spend time um besid the architecture um i' like to also mention
that this house is going to be sprinklered currently there's a single family home there that's not sprinkler and um having a driveway that's less than 20 ft width uh kind of um makes it
difficult for a fire truck to go in and and help out the residence um the current house the driveway is narrow and it's not spring and we're we're proposing to bring in sprinkler system even though we don't
we're not required to sprinkler a townhouse by code uh and this way you know it's going to be safer than what it is currently today and like that was a suggestion not a requirement of the of the Fire official correct correct um
thank you uh and in terms of Ian's question can you just talk about the height of the building a little bit sure um we're going to be below the uh height requirement of the of the uh Zone which I believe is around 30 35 ft and what
will our height yes yes and what's our Max height on our prop we're below5 ft 33.8 is the highest unit okay so there are other um two story houses in the area everybody is allowed to build two-story houses and um in my opinion
we're not towering over any other neighbor there is a significant distance between us and other houses there is also um natural vegetation already there um I've been to the site and I cannot
see uh to other people's uh other neighbors properties because of the density of the vegetation and verify no uh variances requested as to height we're conforming as to our height correct do you want to walk us through the renderings maybe Page by Page
sure uh the first page you can find the front um front view that shows all the all the tow houses together um and we do see some vegetation on the rendering but um my statement to Mr Nelson uh is that this
is just a proposal uh but you're open to discussion with the board suggestion from the board uh and Mr Nelson as I said we would submit a formal landscape plan uh if approved uh we didn't want to presume what the board would want we would like their input on vegetation right I I'm I'm not a landscape
architect but I have shown and given an idea of what it could look like and we have picked native vegetation um that that'll last through the years um on the second page you can
see the front again but from the um from this angle front left corner and um here you can't see can we show the public I did provide a copy to the to the to
the does anybody want this one I can I'll share thank you New Y they're going to have questions they may as well see what it right again um
if we we're going to place the trash cans in the front we we would also propose to uh screen those trash cans with vegetation remembering again if that's what the board desires we'll do either way as the board sees fit right so we're trying to give the houses as
much privacy as possible therefore the left house has a door a patio to the left of the uh house um that would be their own space um this third page is a
closeup of the um of the house uh just to show you you know what the materials are like we're thinking about uh lap siding Bard and Bon different colors um it's going to be asphalt shingle roofing
and then fourth page is the back of the property um it's uh White lap sighting you see this a lot uh throughout uh Summit and uh you can also see the two fencing separating the right two houses
backyards we're going to provide a door uh for the landscaper to be able to go in and mold lawn and uh on the fifth page you can find again the rear of the property and here you can see the Dormers as well
well um that's from and this this time this is from the other corner of the property and we're presenting the uh uh in this view you can see the patio um again the next page is again
the rear of the property but this time you can see the um the the patio area of the middle house then the next page is where we're looking at the front view from the other
Corner this from this angle and um same thing just backed up a little bit and then the last page is showing um a night shot of what it could look like
um with the lights over the garages turned on uh just and maybe maybe a few lights around the uh driveway but we can we can we're open to changing that I'll take your questions with that
okay questions from our experts okay thank you um with regard to the proposed architectural detailing uh we had put in our memorandum the request to
compare it to the design standard of the coordinates could you go through that and identify how this uh elevation or the elevations are compliant particularly the roof lines are you familiar with that section
of the code um I'm looking for your letter sorry it should be 35-1 14.3 what I'll do is if it's if you can't find that we didn't specifically call out the features we were just asking for testimony on it um there's the first one which is
Building height in roof lines the roof lines of at least 30% of the number of units attached in a structure are to be staggered in height by not less than 2 and 1/2 ft of height of the roof lines of the other units are your roof lines doing that or
it looks like it's less than 2 and half ft um we are staggering the roof lines they're stepping each has a stepping back slightly and it is as you can see on the plan it's more than two two feet we're stepping back with each house
right but it's actually 2 and 1/2 ft of height between the roof lines does it comply with that at the same time you need to maintain the six on 12 for 80% of the building 85% of the buildings total roof
coverage we are I believe we're meeting the six on 12 okay I'm just wondering if you needed relief from that uh differential I believe I believe this is more than six on 12 at the angle but as far as the
height of the roof Ridge line they articulate the ridge line is same but because the houses step back and if you look at the renderings it looks like it's dropping in height looking up from a perspective right but
um um in an elevation you can see it's except for this end house they're mostly the other two houses are at the same height but I would say architecturally it because the each unit steps back it's giving you the same feeling of different
roof Heights I understand that point but yet could you confirm whether or not you needed relief from this 30% requirement 30% of the structure where you need to have not less than 2 and A2 ft of pight difference between roof
lines um I can uh find out about that and because the board would need to know that in their deliberations okay that's okay um we'll that when the planner testifying and we'll provide you an answer with that thank you
um also we had noted in our review that the it seemed that the dimensions of the inside of the garage did not meet the 10x 20t requirement um the dimensions are measured from the
interior of the wall okay but you have a staircase that projects into the par yes so kind of covered in my testimony that this staircase that's being projected in may need uh a variance but have a if I
if I push it into the mudroom it is going to drastically uh change the layout where it's it's going to be a uh a a ma major negative the way I have to orient it that uh will take away from
the house uh the interior layout layout here and I would prefer having the steps in and it makes the space more efficient more functional and having those two steps um which are going to be that that high is not going to interfere with the
functionality of egress and in uh ESS uh through the garage okay but yet what would be the effective depth then for that garage space with the staircase um each step would have to be 9
in um so that's 18 in 1 6 uh 18 18 18' 6 in so you would have 18 6 in to the interior wall of the where the doorway is to the garage door right from the the
last step to the end of the um wall would be 18 and2 gotcha okay so that's the there would be relief then asked for that correct okay why would that function better or how would that function even with a what
size car could you fit within that space you could still uh a parking spot usually um an outdoor parking spot would be uh 9 by 18 ft uh we have 20 feet here and when you park in a a regular 9 by 18
ft parking spot you know that there is plenty of room around that parking spot here we have an additional 2 feet U so this this car that we're showing here is a a large um a large car and you can see that there's enough space around that to
walk and be able to just step up these two two steps that are going to be each one would be no more than 8 in off the floor um we do not need a hen rail or a guard rail by coat it's the elevation
difference is minimal uh if I push the steps into the into the mudroom then I would have to come in um from the middle of the kitchen and um and kind of instead of going from the
side of the kitchen into the living room dining room area you would directly would have to go into the kitchen uh to be able to get into the house or if you're in the kitchen or in the living room area you have to go through the kitchen to get into the powder room um
mud room uh we would have less um hanging space uh because of the layout for those reasons I would prefer it uh prefer to have um the two steps within the garage and I've designed manyi
houses with this layout uh type of layout we have not had have we have never had issues okay um all of the garages need to have access from the front right it's from the front drive area correct so they are
front facing correct um have you were you involved in the site plan design at all um out of the buildings on the site yeah at the beginning I was working with the civil engineer okay did you look at any other alternatives to try to
avoid that front facing garage condition um it's really not possible especially for the middle unit and um I think it it's more functional
um having them facing the front um want to add anything yeah there we don't we don't believe there are any better options from the side um so can I just clarify Mr Snus
are those three additional variances besides what is are the that you're you're calling out for the the relief from the roof line the staircase and then the front-facing garage I don't know if I saw the front face I just want to clarify how many we're
adding the roof the roofline is a design guideline right Ed that is correct the roof line is a design guideline so that's a waiver it's not of variant but yet the board doesn't in addition to that I believe we had the garage dimensions in our review under item
number five on page five okay that yeah that's in there but the front but we didn't have the front did we have the front facing Garage in there no y area I believe that's new or or that would be an addition to the ones we did
we listed okay I think they may have addressed that during testimony earlier but if I'm not mistaken okay thank you just regarding the materials and provided in the illustration um you had indicated that they'll be siding can you describe that
a little bit more will it be vinyl siding will it be mineral siding uh we're proposing hardy hardy board sighting okay so it will not the specific but the the mineral board type right okay thank you just wanted to identify that for the record um you had
indicated the Landscaping on the illustrations as well um you had showed just some shrub Foundation plantings any shade trees you would have added to this we do have large parking areas we're trying to reduce the heat island effect uh things of that nature we can add
those I I'm not sure if it is necessary because there are already large trees surrounding the property they're surrounding the property but not necessarily having canopies overhanging the parking spaces I know you're not a landscape architect but that's something
that I would stress as you look at a plant we would be open to adding shade trees as well as any other Evergreen uh plantings as well correct um lighting you had indicated that there's going you provided the illustration that there'll be I guess task lighting at the doorways
for the garages and then it seems that you have some small ball type lights correct that are also delineating the limits of the driveway correct yes um you have them rather small they're they're low to the ground the beams spread on those I know you tried your
best to illustrate what that might look like um does that really cover enough of the parking lot area in order to maintain safety of that parking lot area it well the the lighting on the house and the lighting around the dryw will
help visual help you see the driveway at nighttime however we're uh once we um once we submit our landscape plan we'll also um a submit a revised lighting plan that that'll illuminate the uh yard it's
something that I just wanted to question about because there is issues of just making sure people are negotiating their drives appropriately because you do have cars backing in and out and things of that nature Not Be Our intention to do anything overhead or on a pole we would do all Sur all low level I would
recommend a little bit higher ballards but I don't want to get into testimony yet want to aler that the board in your illustrations I wanted to go to the rear illustrations I just want to caution you
um is when you Illustrated this I know you took an artistic license with it but yet does the rear yard space actually Dimension to the rear yard space you're proposing or I'm looking at the fence sections you have okay uh it looks like
maybe the posts are 6 ft apart and if I was to add up the fence sections it might be larger than what you actually have to your property line could you confirm that um I didn't want this to I it may not be 100% accurate um we may
have taken an artistic license on that one however we're not going to go over our property line right but yet one of the variances being sought is that back distance off the rear property line so this does not generally illustrate correct exactly what's happening back
there the the re the rendering is as to the structure uh and correct the the the fence is there uh but it is not an actual rendering based on the specifications and size of the rear yard okay the space that's available thank
correct uh no further questions thank you do you have any questions the only thing I wanted to um touch on was um was about the ballards um and I I realize you're going to you're going to change
them a little bit but um but you know it's great when there's no snow but if you have snow there's there's no way to be able to see them so um if you're going to be using them for some safety in the parking lot we want something that's taller taller that you yes right
we agree to that I think that's all I have question questions from the boardering number two show a very substantial group of trees in the back I assume that's an artistic license uh it
is okay yeah but there are a lot of trees at the board at on the property line uh towards that side that's actually an athletic field back there there's no large trees of that nature the it opens so that takes me back to my landscape
plan would really be nice to have it in front of us now we're talking about a lighting plan would be nice to see it in front of us uh are those egress windows in the basement um no those are regular how about up in the attic are
those windows in the Attic attic uh do I kind of see those becoming livable spaces where maybe an extra bedroom could be added large enough to be the uh eess window and uh well you you should know the size of
the windows right yeah yeah yeah one second yeah those are casement windows the L eress ESS windows and the side windows no but the basement window is that that's not an egress window that's those are not an egress window but we can add an egress window I don't want
you to we we we specifically discussed that M Mr Nelson uh and suggested that we should not add ress Windows because we didn't want basement dwellers correct yeah so it does they're not currently it doesn't have to be and then um this
might be an off-the-wall question I would the rain gutters that come down in the backyard um they're going to drain to the front like the ones in the center of the building so you're going to put them all the way around the perimeter of the house to the storm D to the storm
management system that's all I got for right now oh one more firewalls put firewalls between the units it's going to be up to code yeah they're they're going to be through the roof through the all the way up yeah any other questions from the
board um I just had one and it it kind of goes to what um Mr Nelson was referring to with the egress windows I personally don't think having an egress window or not having an egress window is going to stop someone from using as a bedroom um how many of the extra rooms
cuz I what do they have to be 80 Square ft to be considered a bedroom size how many of the extra rooms in each of the units are bedroom sized counting the basement and the attic I think there are three counting the basement yeah we have
a flex room a gym a wreck room which doesn't have a door so uh we wouldn't consider consider that a room but gym flex room so two for each unit in the basement on the first floor we don't have any
rooms on the second floor we have three bedrooms on the attic level we have on the middle unit we don't have any rooms it's just open space uh on the two end units we have a office uh one room so
the other one is a the space is a record room doesn't have a door doesn't have you know you cannot um put a door and have privacy and there's no Plumbing in that attic space either there's no there's no Plumbing that was going to be an exqu you're not going to pre-platonic
sorry I I didn't mean it that way I meant an office space for the parents to use like the father using it as a office or mother to lay the concerns of the board we certainly would make it a condition uh that we wouldn't Market that uh and if the board really wanted to I could include that in the um
Homeowner Association rules and regulations uh that the attic space or basement space could not be utilized as a put on the deed I don't know if I can put it on the D or not I think theoretically it' be filed because it's I have to file my master
deed so there you go right I suppose so you could do that it would be not part of the deed of transfer but it would be part of the master deed of the condo association just to clarify what what the manner in which that would be
done well at this point we'll take questions did you get the answer to the question on where the fire connection is for the spring I didn't ask is there going to be but I know that that's one um it'll be residential so they could be shut off if they don't pay the
water no no no I'm not sure that that that'll be designed by uh other professionals that so if the water shut off if the water shut off during a fire or after a fire the other occupancies lose their attach so you'd have to have
no I don't think the sprinkler system they would would be able to manually sh it depends on whether it's a residential which means it works off the water service for the house or if it's a standalone it's it'll be a stand alone so then there should be a sprinkler connection somewhere on the property so the guys don't have to drive down and
hook up to the building M should be remote out toward the street okay near Hydra correct we know the Street's narrow so that would definitely help with the uh suppression problem on on that at least on that property
okay so I don't know if we have a answer okay I I I know the chief brought it up so correct so if the chief brought it up I figured you would well is that a condition we need to put in clarifying where that connection is I think it'll
be like a 13r system there are different here of that's a residential sple system yeah which which works off of your water service for your house any other questions from the board Mr Nelson if I can ask a question on that if there's three separate meters and each would be on their own syst there should be yeah but there's also a
water Bane that shuts off the water to the property I would assume from the street correct just like if they pull the wires at the street you do power to the structure I mean I'm not trying to make yeah no it's it's a fair question I mean we'll work with the chief on whatever if
he's the expert on that yeah exactly okay any questions from the public for this witness yes my name is Olga Cina k r a s o t k i n a I live at for2 moris Avenue Apartment 55
I have a question uh considering that will be three um home houses instead of one right now do you have any considerations about impact on water and
sewing systems uh backup sewer system water and sewer systems because it is where will be fre houses instead of one practically system can handle it right so it'll be designed
uh the the street system should be able to handle that and we will have the right size piping to um you considering to change this line This currently uh connected to is yes oh the existing line
that's going yes you have a plan for that it will be on the construction uh construction drawing set okay uh do we have rendering um actually uh
how how this look like from from the unit to to the to the property behind that because I'm living currently on the town uh apartment complex right behind your uh the behind the house there are
no additional renderings from the interior view to the exteror just just yeah just this um no we can because uh it's look like right now for me uh as look bigger that the space there are
there right now it's look like I don't know uh for me it's no such space there Behind these uh proposed units so just I'm considering Ral space for any backyard at all just make sure you're
asking questions please uh what what what size of backyards you proposing let's do this for the record he's going to reference the site plan which was previously introduced by Mr Clark um where's your house located okay so let me go back home me
Mr Clark would it be easier for you to answer the question where's the house located where's your home located over here right there so you're toward the
back okay over here so we have 15 what's the question size well they vary um I mean I'm not sure how to best describe that it's I I don't I don't have a scale and
I didn't Dimension out every backyard but what's the width of the dwelling unit what's the width of the unit the unit width so it's 45 ft by between 15 and 22 I'd say on the end
unit which is a rough approximate correct Mr that's an approximation I I didn't Dimension out the the backyard space this is just not looks how it's look like from from from the pictures like it's a huge amount of space on the pictures but it is will not be the such
a yeah it's not an expansive backyard certainly it's mod backyard it's not not like it's look like from the from the pictures it's from on the pictures it look like a huge picture excuse will be like um questions please there will be time for comments yes that's good
question quick question before the one more public person gets up is that okay um when I think it was the young man named Ian right is that his name so what what is the height of the two houses in front of this proposed project do we know compared to the to the project
itself the height of do we know we don't if you don't know you don't know we don't know we don't know yeah the lot 57 and lot uh I don't have my paperwork in front of the two houses in front directly in front of the project do you have the heights of those yeah I I don't
think I have the Heights on those any other questions from the public yes uh Lewis sers 31 edger Street um I have a question about the garbage you were talking about before that you want to put the garbage cans where the condensers are now correct correct so
what would you do with the condensers where would they go for the AC unit that would that would move to the back okay that I was curious about and then amount of volume of water had a question about the volume of water because you have the entire roof
and you have a leader system and you do put catch basins in now the height and I think is higher on eggar street where all that water is going to flow into this building where's all that water going to go then there's also Al a field
that Summit owns in the backyard which would drain onto that field which I know is brand new so I want to know where all this war it's going to go I just asked Mr Clark to address that question the storm water as I described in my testimony previously is going to be managed in a a four tank drywell system
right but my curiosity is did we do a volume of measurement of water like to an inch so you got I'm sorry I don't so let's say we get an inch of rainfall yeah where's all that water going to go do we do any kind of measurements or studies of those catch basins of the
what catch basins the ones we're proposing on site to earth right yeah they're going to catch the water yeah let's say they overfill then where's all that war going to go if it's over abundance War well yeah I mean there's an overflow potential city of summit know that that
water can flow onto their field well I'm sure that they do the city of summit was noticed for the hearing this evening I don't know if they're here what what we've done is size the system according to the standards for Summit which is for a 3-in
rainfall not a 1in rainfall so it's a 3-in rainfall so if 3 in of rainf on this entire roof area and this entire paved area the volume that's designed for the system will handle that 3 in of rain when you get a 4th inch of rain and
you get a 4 in rainstorm there will be some overflow okay all right I just want to make sure we're aware of that that's all yeah okay thank you not sure what even my name is Robert Delmont d e l m o n t to
Edgar I have a question and I also have an answer to that question that was just presented how do I do this questions only questions yeah okay if you're your questioning the question is you state that
this catch Bing is going to catch that amount of water I have did a St study on the and I is this if this you can save this for public comment if it's not a question because there will be that opportunity as well
all right I'll do it up when I come back thank thank you any other questions yes my name is Ron party r a n p a t i last name jatna j a y a r a t h n e 39 Street uh I have a question about the
capacity of the building like at a point like how many people can OCC including maintenance and Constructors construction workers and everybody because based on the capacity the Ed cust is going to be like kind of uh
congested uh when we get get out and get in so how how many people are going to be occupied on this property because it is going to increase based on the current property that it has I just I don't I don't think the architect qual ified to know how many
workers are going to be on the site at any one point which I think is what the question is based on the number of bedrooms and like Capac occupy and live there um I would say it's three bedrooms cor
we have three bedrooms yeah each yeah so I would expect to normally have uh 18 people maybe four n so maybe two people OCC so 18 people and also in addition to
that like if any maintenance people come in and visitors come in I don't think 18 people the answer is it's a three-bedroom property and there's three of them the rest is your conjecture sir all right hi Leslie salcio 412 Mars Avenue
um we're the property right next to you guys we're in your backyard um the city Forester mentioned that there were two dead trees that had to get cut down at the last meeting you guys weren't really committing to doing it just want confirmation you will be cutting those trees down as they hang over power lines
and we've tried to reach out to those previous owners because we can't get access we've trimmed them and everything but they are two dead trees over the power lines that fit affect 57 units so we would like those trees removed the
new or n will cut down the trees the Deb trees well well we'll comply with the recommendations of the Forester okay because at the last one it wasn't really sure if you guys were going to do it at the last meeting what I testified to is we would um agree to the forester's
recommendation he indicated that I think his his comment was nondescript he said there are two large dead trees on the east side that need to be removed my testimony was we certainly will remove whatever the Forester
indicates should be removed okay but I'm not sure exactly which trees those are oh it will be clear and we again we've tried to reach out to the previous owners excuse me we're just going to stick with the questions right now thank you just to move it along um any other questions Alfredo oristano dir3 edar
Street last name is o r i s t a n i IO how many vehicles per unit do you estimate two two vehicles two with a three-bedroom house okay how could I make this a question I had four but that's that's another question how do you that so
that's six Vehicles potentially three leaving and three coming in how would you propose they navigate when there's three coming in and three coming out with that Narrow Street people backing out constantly and that young man playing in his
street it's a very dangerous situation with all them vehicles and two vehicles per unit is very low with three bedrooms we we're proposing 18t driveway which is very narrow only one vehicle
pass questions only there's two vehicles can pass on 18 on 18 ft yes um what if when the when the garbage cans are there how are they supposed to get by on the apron or the driveway the garbage cans don't come out the garbage can stay back according to my understanding recycle
comes out that's right so it'll be three cans there they at 18 feet now is 15 ft when there is a rainstorm or wind they could be scattered across the whole driveway you have three cars coming in
three cars coming out possibly more sir this this again is not a question and I think you could save this you could save it for comments for sure than I'll be back up thank you okay are there any other questions
yes um I just like some clarity at the last hearing I think somebody had said that can you just give your name and address pleas oh Jessica Gutman again 29 Edgar Street um at the last hearing I think it was said that they could have four garbage cans per household and two
recycling bins is that correct four two and two two and two garbage and two recyc okay so there's a potential for six recycling bins out on a property with no Frontage but they you want to line up
six recycling bins on the driveway or are you planning on putting it in front of 29 Edgar Street or 27 25 Edgar Street I think my understanding was that the proposal was that what putting the
garbage p in the driveway right the side so you the property line of 29 Edgar Street will have six recycling bins lined up and if there's presumption that there'll be six recycling potentially I'm just looking at for each unit M so three to six recycling bins will be
along the driveway that's your conjecture it's not9 Street the there's a conjecture that they'll have recycling bins yes but I'm asking is it going to be lined up along the driveway or is it going to be lined up in front of the previous testimony was that the
recycling bins on recy Ling day would be lined up in tandem at the end of the driveway or however else the town requires it to be done pursu into ordinance okay do we know what the town requires is that something that's
acceptable to the town to have them in to do when you bring your recyle bins out I put them at the edge of the corner of my driveway and I have a very long curve okay so we would do something similar but there's no curve testimony is the testimony okay the testimony is the
testimony I'm just wondering if there's no curb where the recycling bins go I also wanted Clarity on and really I do um you said that you were moving the garbage and the recycling to the front of the property right the front of the
units the front of the units and the condensers are moving to the back of the units that's right okay not that the condensers are in the front of the units because I think he can't together that was our original proposal however uh we have changed it since the last hearing
now the um condensers will be in the back to clarify that is an option of the board how they would like us to Cate to to locate if we get there how they would like us to categorize that or locate those condensers and re receptacles if they would prefer them to be individual
we will do that if the board would prefer us to have a garbage enclosure away from the homes we would do that okay so if you have the garbage enclosure away from the homes that's along the property line of 29 Edgar Street correct it's where it was
proposed in the plans may okay correct thanks any other questions from the public hi Karen last name Aras a r i a s 23 Edgar will you guys be providing guest parking for these units or will
they be adding to the already pretty big parking issue issue that we have we have one one all the parking all these parking spaces count as guest parking spaces there's a
question for the plan we we'll have the planner test okay thank you Kim Delmont d l m o n t 32 Edgar Street um you mentioned it HOA is there a property manager that's going to be managing these three units to ensure that the recycling is where it's
supposed to be and um snow removal ETA the decision on property management will be left to the ultimate owners of the property that's not something that we could conjecture on at this point so there's no there's no guarantee that the recycling B are going to be where they said they're going to
be but we're going to rely on residents to keep them out of the neighbor's yard okay that's a comment so is is a question any other questions I know I always go out of line I'm sorry yes so when we were talking
about Paving a driveway for lot 57 you mentioned that the driveway was going to be over 300 Square ft doesn't that trigger a storm water management plan for that lot alone and if so who's going to be responsible to do it the owner of the property or the applicant because
you're make you're adding 300 more square feet of imper we're not adding 300 more square feet I was indicating how much that is right now it's Stone right now so it's a it's a driveway that's Stone right now which counts in the ordinance as impervious coverage so
is there a plan to PVE that for the is that who would be responsible for Paving that you guys or the OCC the owner of the property in this in this scheme of things here you're providing with the space you agree to in coordin coordination with this project it's been offered that that would be paved okay
what happens 5 Years From the end of the project you know then it's that owner's driveway so if they needed to repave it they'd repave it okay so am I out of line for asking your you mentioned the dimensions which be over 300 sare feet of possibly paved driveway because it's
existing in coverage right grael it might add 100 square ft but the the the area that's there will be about 400 ft which was what I thought your question was originally what's the what's the area of that driveway so if it's paved
they don't have to manage the storm the if the total new paved area does not exceed 300 Square ft it doesn't trigger the storm water and we're adding maybe a 100 it's it's actually not 300 ft of new paved area it's new impervious coverage
and what I'm pointing out is that most of that is currently a stone driveway which counts as impervious coverage in the city of so if you had a stone driveway and you paved it it's not an an increase in impervious coverage there's
no trigger for additional storm water I disagree with that statement well I'm just telling you what the ordinance says and how how the zoning is treated um okay we'll talk offline we have to treat I do have one question um based on uh something the uh previous person said
which I don't recall um is there any clarification on how snow removal will occur on the property here um because it now there's testimony that this is going to be managed by the individual people from the units but it does seem like
it's going to be just to be clear Mr that was not the testimony I was stating that there's no proposal at this point we can't know what these owners are going to want to do they may want to hire a management company they may not maybe one of them is a property man manager for a living we that's the only thing we were I just wanted to know what
the proposal is on how to remove snow I believe that was one of the questions that we had from our experts as well to discuss snow removal and yeah my testimony before was that my expectation would be that a a service a company would be uh paid to remove the snow to
handle the snow I mean gone are the days when you know the kid kid up the street shovels the driveway um couldn't those requirements be put into the master de and then whoever's supposed to take care of it has to do it and we can require that Mr Steiner
what would the just just so I understand what would the requirement be that it would have to be professionally removed removal trash can placement all the all the rules and regulations that people are asking about that we're not getting an answer because it's somebody else
down the future has to make the decision well maybe we make the decision now and put in the master deed if that makes you comfortable I would I would I would stipulate to to I'm sorry I said if it makes you more comfortable with this application we could add those details into the master deed I wouldn't want to
bind a future Association to require them to have a management company or to say something like we're going to have snow removal done professionally because I could pay my kid $2 to do it and done within 3 within 5 hours of the end of the snowstorm I'm making it up here you
know whatever it is that we decide that we want the rules or that you would propose as rules to put into it because I think the proposal should come from the developer and then see how that floats with the uh with the board and the
public I mean if you want to propose something uh I usually go with the standard of I'm sure there's an ordinance for the city of summit that says within a certain period of time from the conclusion of the ice or snow event that this law is supposed to be cleared I think that's a municipal ordinance I don't know I need to put
that in the master D but we would in the manner of where the snow would be placed I think it's a little hard for us to put that in a master D to say that it's going to be you know near spot four if there's a certain number of inches I mean you know we we can't plan for every single possibility you can say that the
snow is not going to be on either side of the stem of the driveway I think that's the real issue where is that snow going because that's a really long um stretch of driveway with almost no place to put the snow right now so that looks like something that probably needs to be addressed I mean
the reality is we could agree to that there would be no snow placement in the in the in the stem of the driveway any snow that would be placed on the property to melt would be put somewhere else I mean the reality is it's going to be in the grassy area to the right or to
the left of the parking lots and are there any other questions from the public okay yes um that may be actually easy question for you so if you start the project let's assume you will um how long do you
foresee this to go because again it's a narrow Street you will have construction construction workers it's going to be impossible for anybody to move in or and out what is um how long is that potentially can take because that's a
huge disturbance to the street because of the size of the project uh typical construction timeline would be around 9 months thank you can you just give your name again for the record please apologize Katherine Rubenstein 35 Edgar
Street okay I think I saw one more question over there or two more questions of yes Kim Delmont 3 to Edgar Street so during the 9 months of construction where are the people who currently live on Edgar Street supposed to
park that are currently using on street parking um I think these questions are for the contractor however I would think in your experience as an architect construction of this if I were to do the con construction myself I would first uh
plan out the driveway issue with the uh home homeowner the neighbor and then continue the construction with a lot this size and the fact that there's going to be eight or nine uh or seven overflow parking spaces uh based on your experience isn't there enough space on
this lot for the contractors to be on the lot during the construction process there's a 18t driveway and we can bring in heavy equipment if needed and there's a lot of space uh to move around and uh maneuver um so incl including all the
workers that are going to be there they're going to come they're going to all Pile in the same car and only Park one vehicle they're not going to park on the street we have the right to develop the property if we were to build a single family home we would still have the same number of workers equipment
coming in and out and um there is enough space on the property to go in and out and develop the de build the houses so you're saying that there's going to be no impact to the parking on edger Street for the nine months you're doing
construction I'm not saying that there will be no impact um um there will be the same amount of impact that um a single family home construction would uh
would have thank you are there any other question hi Carl deam I'm from 30 edar Street um I'm sorry if this is a stupid question but I'm just trying to understand how all this fits on the property so I think you said the
building is three units 45 ft each 30 ft uh wide 30t wide each and about 33 to 36t deep
so about 100 feet wide and how big is the current oh sorry how big is the current house that's there in terms of that same width so this is like wait wait wait wait wait on the plan in a dash
line is the footprint of the existing house so it's not quite 90 ft wide it's probably 80 ft wide okay okay that's helpful and and how big is the parking lot you said it's going to have room for eight parking
places yeah there'll be three spaces here and three spaces here one handicap you know the handicap space is like twice the size of the regular space right so six spaces here and then the Garage spes
so six spaces in each car is available and so the parking lot is maybe 40 ft it's all dimension on here but the spots are 9 by 18 ft and then there's the area that is in between the spaces
for maneuver okay and accessing the garages okay and then where did the shade trees go you mentioned you were going to build some they don't go on the parking lot they they they go they'll they'll be around the park okay and then the backyards I mean they look gigantic in the picture but they
look tiny so what are the times yeah okay I'm just asking like what are the measurements of those back yards what is the patio measurement is there's a patio an a yard but how does this all fit I mean I go back to my one question is how in the
world does all this fit on one property it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't one it doesn't match those picks but number two it just doesn't seem to add up to what I see when I walk down the street and there's a little tiny house back there
on a little tiny lck if you look at the dash line on the that's the existing house if you want to come closer I can show you the the proposed the proposed homes the footprint of the proposed homes you can see the existing house it's not that
much bigger than the current footprint of the home we're pretty much adding a second level two and a half story house so I was able to design the houses um they're small enough uh
they're modest Siz homes and they we we have an open floor concept so it's not it doesn't feel small inside yeah but um they're not large homes so the three of them amount to
um a little more than the current homes footprint and we just pushed it back in order to give ourselves enough parking so I I guess my question I hope this sounds like a question is like when you
add it all together the amount that's left as a lot you know undeveloped like what does that add up to it feels like there's just teeny tiny strips of lot left well you can see it's 21 ft on the
left side it goes from 15 feet to 22 feet on the right side in the back it varies the shortest distance is 10 ft but it goes much larger than that at certain points because from these quarters you have 10t 16 foot 17 feet
this this is more likely 30 feet um and like let's be clear there's no variance requested for coverage correct um no and there's no variance requested for Florida area ratio correct correct so we meet the bulk requirements for the area so
okay are there any other questions from the public okay I think we're going to take a five minute break here little stretch yes okay thank you
e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e okay we'll call the me meeting back to order please yes excuse me everyone take a seat let's
go yeah we're going to call the meeting back to order and we're going to take a break for a couple of procedural um things we need to take care of here so we're just going to address the other two applications uh one of at time
let's go with 49 tulip first if we could just have one representative come up to the microphone please sorry can't he you if you could come up to the mic for 49 to a representative that's good all right so obviously given the
late hour of the evening it doesn't look like we're going to be getting to the other two matters uh this evening 49 tulip or 6 L Allen um so I as we discussed we would be uh looking at carrying this until the next available meeting date which is June 2nd one other
question is there any chance that I know like you guys some you have that sort of alternate meeting sort of planned in there is there any that any of those alternate meetings would get opened up it's unlikely um you know
if if we want what we could do is carry it until a closer meeting to reexamine the schedule and see if we can possibly squeeze on but we might get pushed again is what say it's like well it would just be for scheduling purposes is there any
space on the March 12th special I doubt it okay I just know that we put a Mee that's why I was asking you if there was thought the one was really short and I don't know if anything else has been put on yeah there's two on there so if if we want to take another look and and you
think this is a brief application yes um we can carry you to a a closer meeting knowing it's not going to be heard that evening but for the purposes of looking at the schedule and being able to nail down a final hearing date for you that
if you'd prefer to do it that way June 2nd gets filled up yeah I mean the risk is the risk is you're going to sit do the same thing again at the next hearing and that June 2nd at that point could possibly be filled right that's the thing a possibility Carri in other
words most likely there's not room on really on the hearings they're going to try to sneak you in but the chances of you being heard are probably slim to none again and then you may miss the June second slot because other people will then be put in line in front of you all right we'll take June second okay so
then it's my birthday so maybe we'll have good luck no June 2nd is my birthday waving the time frame to act until June 2nd then and then we will be asking for a motion to carry without further notice until June 2nd
move second see in a few months just need to vote hang on Mr Nelson yes Mr Steiner yes Miss chfo yes Mr tanuli yes Mr ning yes Vice chair Zan
yes and then for six LEL yes uh good evening again Steven hail representing the applicants Bruno n gardi i' have had an opportunity to speak to Mr Paul realize the next available date at this point is uh June
2nd uh obviously we'd like to proceed earlier than that but we understand the board's schedule and uh look forward to appearing back again at that time and uh uh I will stipulate as I mentioned any property extension of time period for decision so waiver of that until June
2nd as well so with no further notice yep again asking for a motion to carry without further notice so move second Mr Nelson yes Mr Steiner yes Miss chfo yes Mr Chuli yes Mr ning yes Vice chair
Z yes he thank you very much and as I mention if there's any neighbors that are here on on our matter uh we'll be glad to meet with them out in the hallway now so thank you so much thank you so now we're going to continue with the planner is that right yes that's
correct SE I called Matthew seckler all right if you could do swear from the testimony you're about to give on this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do and please state your name spell your last name my name is Matthew seckler that's s c k l r I'm with Stonefield engineering
design address is 92 Park Avenue in Rutherford New Jersey thank you and uh can you briefly describe your background experience for the board please sure Bachelor of Science in civil engineering from Union College have a masters in City Regional planning from Ruckers University a licensed professional planner in the state as well as an
engineer been accepted for over 150 boards in the state of New Jersey any questions or would you like to accept his credentials accept accept go ahead Mr sh be testifying this evening as a professional planner correct correct uh you had opportunity to review the plans
the proposals and the drawings uh for 27 Edgar Street and Summit yes um go ahead man certainly um as everyone's here for we understand we're here for uh variances as it relates to the property at 27 Edgar Street it's block 1302 lot
58 I'm going to bring up an exhibit and we could mark this it'll be three sheets I know what you want to mark this as uh it's going to be A2 yes I'll refer to the sheets and what is on them as I get to them
this is prepared by Stonefield engineering design address the uh date prepared is March 3rd 2025 sheet one exhibit A2 with today's date thank you the sheet one is an aerial exhibit and again this outlines
the property in question uh in magenta uh and it overlay it's overlaid on a Google aerial what's important to note is a couple items here one the property is 16,5 2017 square fet and that's going to come into play as we talk about uh
the zoning and density implications it's also in the MF multif family Zone the multif family Zone allows for single family two family townhouse apartments condos and various other conditional uses but
those first five I mentioned are permitted uses permitted in the zone if you're building a single family or two family it refers you to the R5 criteria if you're building tow houses Apartments it has specific multif family criteria in terms of the zone so again on this
magenta property you could build single family two family townhouse or apartments it's important to note that the density requirements change based on what you're building on the property the single family minimum lot size for this zone is
5,000 square ft meaning based on just pure area this lot at 16,000 squ ft can have three single family lots carved out of it again just based on area obviously this is quite unusual size it has the
stem to it it's awkwardly shaped but just based on area when you're thinking about density you're thinking about units over area you could build three single family lots on this property two family lots are allowed to be a minimum of 10,000 square ft so you
could carve this property up into a 10,000 foot lot for two family and one leave over uh a lot that's about 6,000 squ feet for a single family so again another development option for this property based on square footage is a
two family house and a one family house is what could be built on this magenta property based on the area shown an apartment apartments in the MF zone are permitted to have 12 units per acre that would be the equivalent of
4.55 units on a property of this size an apartment is defined as a multif family building with horizontal separation meaning that the units are separated and stacked up like a cake you could have based on the area over 4 and a half units on this
property townhouse that's what we are proposing that is a multif family dwelling with vertical separation and this is based on your definition vertical separation between the units meaning that you're sharing a wall on the side of you not floor to ceiling based on that standard you
allowed six units per acre or 2.3 units for the dwelling for the lot size that we have here and that is one of the reasons why before this board because of the type of unit we're proposing which is a townhouse vertical separation we're only permitted to have 2.3 units but
again this lot area based on the zoning ordinance based on the governing body can allow for three units if it's single family if it's a two family with a single family or if it's what's defined as an apartment again we are going side to side as a townhouse so that is why
we're before this board for the D variant as it relates to and I'm now going to flip quickly to the third sheet and I'll go back to the second this third sheet is called setback analysis this is I'm going to zoom in a little bit again the property in question
outlined in Magenta in red is overlaid the buildable envelope based on the setbacks for this Zone and again we took the setback for the front yard from basically the horizontal line behind the properties that are in front of us and
we set back from that location I think your planner may have considered potentially the front yard being from the road on that stem in that case we'd have a little bit more buildable area in the front yard but again we still would have a triangular shape that and you could
see the existing building underneath it can't even the existing building can't even fit in there so we have a lot that again it has hardships as it relates to it lot shape that we really have no buildable envelope even for a single family house on this property so we have
two things that the the majority of the variances we're seeking are related to the setbacks because you can't build anything within that triangle and density because of the type of units we're constructing not the fact that we have three units because again that can be built based on different housing
Styles because of the housing style we chose we need a variance for that relief I also want to talk about some of the improvements that we're making to the property um one uh as it relates to the design and now I'm going to flip over to the site plan this is what was
on that sheet in front of you but I've just put up on the screen couple of the items that we've done back is we've because of the unique shape of our property the fact that we have this long stem and we're basically
in other people's backyards we're in lot 59 to 57s backyards we shifted the property back we decided to comply or actually provide excess front yard setback to our buildings and sacrific the rear yard the rear yard which backs up obviously to the school property uh
to our to to our back so again when you looked at that triangle what we sought to do was increase the setback to the front yards and again we are providing uh I believe it's 43.1 ft between our building and lot 59 where 30
ft is allowed so we're in excess in that location and in terms of lot 57 because that is again uh we are 85 ft between the lot line and our closest dwelling unit so again in our design our design
style here our thought was that we want to provide a greater front yard because of our unique shape and we sacrificed the rear yard in that condition we are not seeking any variances as it relates to building coverage meaning that the the size of
the the the site the size of the buildings on the site is what is permitted in terms of the amount of square footage they take up we are compliant I know that there was a gentleman who asked some questions earlier about how is everything going to fit on the property a single family house of this shape would be permitted
on this property based on that size same thing with impervious coverage we're allowed to have 70% of this property covered by impervious coverage we're at 61.1% or I think uh maybe higher if we uh increase the size of if we make that
dumpster or Refuge area into a parking space um so again we probably 61.2 or 61.3 where where 70% is permitted so again we are not seeking Varian as it relates to the um building coverage or impervious
coverage as it relates to the variant for density we prepared this EX and it's loading slowly and I'll kind of walk there's a lot of information here I'll walk people through what we are
essentially trying to show based on this exhibit this is I'm going to individually mark this one as A3 with today's date okay and this is titled density analysis it's sheet two of three also prepared March 3rd 2025 what it shows is a little bit more
zoomed out area of the uh neighborhood you could see Mars Avenue on the right hand side of the screen Edgar Street running through the middle and you can see there's a peach color and a yellow color the peach color is the MF Zone that is the zone that our property is in
the yellowish color that is um the residential Zone the single family residential Zone uh that is uh the R15 Zone which starts just to the west of our property in the rear and there's one property 29 Edgar Street that is between
us and the um R15 Zone at on Edgar stre itself so when you look at our design style or what type of density or what type of building can be constructed here what it's supposed to fit in with it is looking at the peach area or the
properties between basically our lot and Mars Avenue that is what our design standards are our design standards are not the r-15 Zone which is the properties to our West or what's shown in yellow what we've sought to do is we looked at tax information we also uh did
you know General visits from the street looking at number of mailboxes looked at public available tax data to get a determination of the number of units and the square footage of the various other properties between uh within the MF Zone
along Edgar Street uh and some of the adjoining lots that is what we've shown on this exhibit here a number of the properties not the immediate property on either side the the imediate property on either side of Edgar Street while there're in the MF zone are both single
family dwelling units but as you start going towards Mars Avenue in that MF Zone what we've noticed is a number of three family dwelling units on Lots less than onethird our size meaning that they have densities in the range of 30 units
per acre and again we are proposing 7.9 units per acre which is the three units that we are proposing so when you compare us to the other Lots within the Zone 15 Edgar 17 Edgar 19 Edgar 21 Edgar 23 Edgar they appear either to be three
unit buildings which is 30 units per acre or they may be two unit buildings which be 20 units per acre more than double than what we are proposing on our lot so in our Zone on our street there are other dwelling units many other dwelling units many other um uh lots
that are significantly more dense than we're proposing to our rear um is Summit Park uh that also has a greater density than what we have it is at 15.7 dwelling units per acre uh the other um multif Family I'd say
the larger sprawling multif family development at 390 Mars Avenue is also 12 a half units per acre which again is greater than what we are proposing uh even on the other side of the street uh uh you know a couple of the single family houses even have greater density
than what we are proposing on our lot because their lots are so small our lot again has a greater percentage of pervious coverage meaning non-developable area than the vast majority of the rest of the neighborhood that is in the MF
Zone the reason why I'm showing this is because the threshold for a den for a density variance is not the same as a D1 variance we are not seeking and we do not have to satisfy the medich standard which is the highest threshold for granting variance relief however the
density variance threshold is outlined in the case the grub case in which it shows there is a relaxed standard in terms of what the board is evaluate this application one of the criteria in evaluating this this application is whether the site could accommodate the
potential problems associated with the enhanced density now I want to again refer back to the fact that we could fit three units on this property based on the square footage if we decide to build them in single family houses if we rip the houses apart and said we want three
single family houses we wouldn't be here for a density variance we may have other variances because of lot coverage and things like that but we would not need a variance the governing body felt three units is appropriate based on our lot size if we were single family two family and a single family apartment it's only
because of the arrangement that we have on the property of the buildings is why we're here for the density variant and I think that's important because all the potential negative impacts you know the lighting traffic noise smells those type
of negative impacts that could come along with density would be the same same if we were those single family houses or apartments on this property in fact I don't see any negative as it relates to those you know list of potential issues and again in in
evaluating variances we again look at items such as noise I don't think this property will have any more noise and if it was developed as a permitted density I don't believe there's any additional issue with the height again the height I think we're compliant noise lighting
parking we actually are comp with parking the vast majority of the other multif family dwelling units on this property have narrower driveways than we have and don't have sufficient parking we have excess than what's required for parking and that includes the guest
parking because the rsis standards which is what the the city uses for parking includes a half unit per um a half parking space per unit standard for guest parking that is what we have and that's what some of those outdoor spaces are used for so again I do not believe
we have a parking issue traffic again you could put three units on this property if the buildings were arranged differently so our three units is not going to create any more additional traffic than those other development scenarios so I don't believe there's an issue as it relates to traffic for this property either so overall I don't
believe there's any substantial detriment to the public good as it relates to the density variants that we're seeking um as it relates to the second prong when evaluating um zoning relief uh it looks at the zoning plan and the master plan and again it talks about the
fact that you are seeking to maintain the prevailing character of the neighborhood uh that's what your master plan says in objective 1.04 and again I think in looking at our density at 7.91 units per acre and looking at the other three family two
family and and housing units along Edgar Street we are consistent with the neighborhood I know we may not be consistent with the neighborhood as we go further west but that's the single family Zone that has a completely different set of regul where we're located we are consistent with the neighborhood the majority of
the units that are around us it also encourages your um master plan encourages development of a variety type of hous variety of housing types I do think this does provide a different type of multif family housing I think if you look at the development
that has gone on in the history over the last let's say hundred years along Edgar Street and I know it wasn't always called Edgar Street looked like in maybe the 30s a lot of the houses that are now multif family these three family houses were constructed that was the style of the time was basically you stick you
know a three family like a three family house where you may have a maybe a single family house in converted like single entry maybe one entry on the side up and down style apartment living I believe it was the late 40s or early 50s that the Summit Park development and
similar um kind of um Garden Apartments were constructed that was a different type of housing stock that was popular in that era that had those Garden style apartments and that's what you see in the larger properties to our North and to our South nowadays A lot of the townhouse development or multif family
development small scale not you know your 60 unit buildings they are built townhouse style as opposed to the 1930s kind of Walk Up Style you have these townhouse style and I do think we are providing a variety of different type of housing stock that fits in with the neighborhood fits in with the multif
family development because we are giving them the 2000's version of multif family development so here you have that variety of you know the 1930s the 1950s and now the 2000s style of multif family housing um in this area while still
maintaining the density characteristics of the Zone um so overall I believe as it relates to the density variance that we do meet the threshold that grubs uh has outlined um in uh based on that case terms of the other variances that we're
seeking we're seeking a host of setback Varian as it relates to our side and rear yard again I want to bring back that third exhibit this is really a C1 variance issue this is a hardship there's really no developable envelope even if we built the existing house if
we tore it down and wanted to rebuild it we couldn't comply with the setbacks that are out there so I do believe we are seeking a hardship variance I also think that because we are increasing the the front yard setback compared to what's out there today and in excess of what the Zone allows there is a little
bit of a C2 two variants or flexible variants here where we're sacrificing the rear to give a better front yard because we think that's a better design we think that's a better design because of our unique shape the fact that our front yard is someone else's backyard and we want to be able to provide a proper area between our structure and
their structure lastly I think there was a bunch of waivers uh as it relates to this application um a couple of the waivers I think one of them in talking to the architect and the applicant um I believe will'll be able to satisfy the
issue with the varying uh building Heights I think what we're going to plan to do is increase the outer tube structure slightly still be compliant with the building height requirements and then drop the center one slightly so we have that twoot separation between those two structures um between the structures and
I think that would satisfy that design criteria I also would state that there is um waivers that we're seeking uh I believe as it relates to I'm I'm going to throw it out there for the condenser in the rear of the site I think it would like it may be within the 25t setback
again that is because the whole structure we've pushed back to provide better front yard so again because we have a lot of room in our backyard uh any condensers if we do move it back there maybe within the 25 foot setback we also are seeking a deviation as it relates to the driveway size and
driveway location the fact that it is facing the street again uh while it is in front of the house Technic in front of the units and technically facing the street it is shielded from the street based on the other Lots around us so it's not like someone is seeing a garage door when they drive by they will not
see anything because of where uh structure sets back on the property I also want to discuss how I think this property advances the purpose of the municipal land use law this is the positive criteria as it relates to um variance relief and W and waiver
relief I do believe that um this does promote purpose M which is the efficient use of land again we are dealing with a property that is uniquely shaped again I believe looking at some you know historic mapping in the area this this seems to be a lot that was carved out even before some of these streets were
constructed um and I do believe that while we have limited buildable area based on your zoning we provided a development plan that is consistent with your zoning requirements for um lot area and impervious cover uh with um building area and building coverage and
impervious coverage so I do believe we be we meet purpose M I also believe we meet purpose I which is promoting desirable visual environment well you may not see this structure from the road because of how it's set back I do believe that it is um showing a reinvestment in the property over what
building that has been out there previously and I think it also promotes uh purpose a which is promoting General Welfare which by providing a variety of housing types again I believe that we are consistent with the goals of the MF Zone by providing multif family housing
uh which again is permitted The Zone and we could rearrange the square footage different ways in this property and still will get three units however we think this design townhouse style consistent with what the you know current multi small scale multif family design is um of of this of this current
ERA I think is better than let's say a stacked apartment building or trying to fit uh you know two families or one families on on this lot in the rear so overall I do believe that the variances that we're seeking and waivers that we're seeking can be granted uh and happy to answer any questions of our
Council and the board I just have a few Matt thank you and thank you for being succinct at Del late hour um as I review uh can you bring up A3 which is the the density right uh as I review this it appears that there's 21 properties in the in the peach shaded area I'll Trust
you count I did the count I did the count how many of those conform with the density restrictions or requirements of the zoning ordinance so I would have to relook at the two large multif family ones because those are uh they would have different density standards
but in terms of the I'm going to say the ones that front Edgar Street I'll you want to know how many conform yes uh well the two single family houses that are on either side of us conform and it looks like there is I think 13 Edgar maybe a
one family that would conform so the one families might conform but the multifamilies they look like they would all not conform uh to the current Zone Zing standards so of the 19 that front on Edgar that are either single or multifamilies the three single families
would conform but the remaining 16 would not conform with the zoning ordinance with the density requirements correct uh and how many of those that do not conform are more out of Conformity than our proposal nearly all then they all look like they're in
excess of 7.91 that said if they stack above they're allowed to be 12 units per acre so they their thresholds a little higher but I'm seeing numbers in the 30s and and excess of 14.7 so the majority of them are in Greater
non-conformance uh than our than our development um and and if we decided that we wanted to do apartment living on this lot based on this size and we did four units we would be the conforming
lot in the neighborhood as a multif family would we not we could build 4 and a half units obviously you can't build a half units we could build four units based on our lot size we could also build you know we could take one of the buildings on let's say 17 Edgar move it to our property and we' be conforming
and that has three units okay thank you questions from our experts yes thank you um thank you for your testimony um getting back to the your first part of your uh introduction you talked about single family and two family homes and
then you talked about tow houses did I Mis understand or mishar you say that tow houses could be on 5,000 square F feet or was that single family home single family could be on 5,000 square feet I might have stated the wrong work yeah it may have been tied together I just wanted to clarify that I think the
testimony was at single family on 5,000 he had mentioned 10,000 square foot two family as a two family a two family correct thank you okay so with that in mind looking at the density variance and you appropriately identified what's required in a density variance is
looking at whether or not the site can accommodate the problems associated with the use or the density as well as whether or not it presents a better alternative better planning alternative when we look at density we're looking at the impacts also to the
surroundings and to the actual density that's being proposed on the property if you a conforming density for this property would be two tow houses correct 2.3 but yes okay you would have more area for setbacks and things of that
nature have you looked at the amount of relief you're requesting for the rear yard setbacks um how does that compare to the Zone plan I'm looking at the purposes of that rear yard setback requirement
standards of light air and open space certainly and again I'm going to go to my third sheet here so again I don't believe that even two units could be constructed without a rear yard setback or potentially you could push it forward and I guess comply because you'd have to
build it within this red triangle two units um that said again the idea is from a reard setback standpoint is to have sufficient light air open space to the rear of us is you can see the field in the background is the school property so there's not a residential property
that backs up to us um so again I do believe there is sufficient air open space if I was going to sacrifice one of the setbacks either front or rear I would sacri sacrifice the rear to benefit the front and that's what we did with this design and again I think even a two two family or two units per the
density that's allowed would have a setback variance as release to the rear okay but this exhibit here you're showing the front yard setback requirement correct we're showing it from the line that is I guess adjoining the neighbors to our front right um if
if you did it from the street you would have an undefined sidey yard the entire way up the property mhm but then also you would have a sidey yard setback from the the most uh what are those the sly property
lines excuse me I guess those are the uh the southernly lot lines that separate block or excuse me lot 59 and lot 57 yeah I'm going to I'm going to this is might get dangerous because I'm not good drawing on the fly on this but if the front yard was actually actually from the street if that's how you want to
measure it your developable envelope would get something like this which means it would really push the building you I guess could build something but it's going to be right up on the properties the lot when we get the right lot numbers well actually wouldn't you have the sidey guard
setback requirement as well from those lot lines because really the way the uh definitions work for front yard is it's from the front RightWay line or the front lot line and then the side yards are the lot lines that are other than
the rear yard and the rear yard is the minimum uh setback it's the most distant from the front lot line so you're saying it would be something like You' have 25 ft essentially right from those areas
something like that right if you're calling this a side yard even though again I agree with you it's I guess by definition a sidey yard but it would not be you know it would be between our front of our house and the right buildings in front of us so technically you could put two uh tow houses in that
area and still comply with the side guard setback requirements if if that's the definition again I'm going to defer to you that that could be constructed again I do think then from a C2 perspective our design of not being rid up in those neighbors backyards is a better design by pushing it back and
again I'd rather sacrifice our our proximity to the school property than our proximity to the neighbors in front so again while I guess by zoning that may be allowed I think again that's a clear C2 where there's a better planning alternative okay um you also made
comparisons to a permitted number of Apartments I think you said four units have you studied any sort of layout of what an apartment would look like on the property no um again I assume it would potentially look like some of the maybe conver Ed single family houses whatever
I don't know the history of the other units on on Edgar that have three units I don't know if they meet your definition of apartment because I've never been inside to know how those units lay out uh but again an apartment which would be a multif family building with more than two units and a
horizontal separation between the units um would be would permit four and a half but you really didn't look at a plan that would show that correct or conclude that whether or not the parking would fit for four units as well it's it's
possible the parking would fit for four units yes okay but you have not looked at that correct it's really just your opinion that that would be the case well I'm I'm just stating that from a pure lot size perspective in it I did not do a design to determine if there's any other deviations or variances that would
be generated okay you heard the board talk about a request for a buffer or landscape plan in your professional opinion what's being proposed here as well as as as whether or not the density can fit
how can you conclude that there's no impacts to the neighboring properties as a result of the sidey setback variances well I've heard from the um previous experts in our Council that they would be willing to provide buffer so I'm going on the basis that whatever buffer
is being requested by the board or the board's professionals would mitigate any potential setbacks because it' be generated and requested by the board so I'm going under the assumption there would be proper screening proper buffering um based on whatever
vegetation being suggested even with the side patios being provided especially adjacent to the uh single family residential Zone on that side yeah and I'm going to go back to the exhibit again where we're where we're in violation of our sidey setback is in the
extreme rear of that property so while I appreciate it is a single family residential um dwelling it is back near its shed and I think if you look at the site plan you could see the shed is basically as close to the property line as our patio is I don't have it
exactly scaled off but it looks like it's approximately you know 6 to 8 ft off the property line so it would be in a similar location as as our patio but that gives enough room for buffering at least for the buildings and their second story Windows um being at that setback
is yes and again because we're so far I mean again we're near their shed um so our patio is nowhere near where the actual dwelling is um and again that 6 and half ft buffer is is clearly enough for some uh vegetation when you compared your
density to the other Lots within the uh surrounding area I understand that you were trying to establish the fact that this is a it's not out of character when we also look at density though we look at whether or not they comply with the other factors of the property whether
it's coverage or setbacks themselves did you look at those other lots to see even at their densities if they complied with the other factors well I could speak just from looking at the properties that you know lots such as 15 17 19 21 23 Edgar this series of what
looked like to be three family houses definitely do not comply with lot coverage as it relates to impervious coverage just from my observations and again parking uh in terms of the number of parking spaces there's no uh on these properties they don't have sufficient
delineated parking spaces there are cars that park on the lot but they're clearly not delineated I don't have a number if they comply with parking so definitely not parking definitely not impervious coverage building coverage they look like they exceed the requirement uh as
well uh but I don't have that uh defined is this an exhibit that we can get a copy of I'd like to review this certain exhibit for the board um just to make sure I concur with the uh calculation and I just want to clarify one point uh the entire rear yards uh are wrapped in
fencing uh so I just want to be clear that that that there is screening there may not be buffering as that definition would be but but all of the side and rear yards of the residences it's plotted on the site plan that there would be a fence of your proposal
correct you're saying okay thank you looking at the driveway itself um there is a variance required for the side for the setback of the driveway to jent properties what is it there that helps to mitigate that condition uh when the board looks at
that they have to Value whether or not that's a substantial impact to the intent and purpose of these zoning so they have to uh evaluate that offset distance what is it there that's helping to mitigate that condition well again I
think there's a couple conditions going on one is the Reconstruction of the driveway that is currently utilizing our property so we're fixing a condition that I would say is unfavorable from zoning perspective is that you know lot 507s driveway is on our lot so that is
an improved condition we are proposing curbing along the area so again that is you know helping delineate the the driveway and also again I think we're dealing with I know that that may not have a C1 uh specific type uh um justification but clearly this lot needs
to be served whether it's in its current condition single family two family whatever would get built here needs to have access to the rear of the to to the meat of the site um so again I think that we really no matter what is constructing this property needs to provide a sufficient driveway but
there's nothing there to mitigate the offset at least to lot 59 well a lot 59 again we do have um I think it says a block wall along the property line that's existing I'm just zooming in on the site plan here it indicates there's a block wall you know what the height of
that wall is I don't know myself I was just curious I I don't I think it's potentially in some areas 3 feet but I don't have an exact measurement okay and then it transitions obviously to a block curb as we go back okay uh that's all the questions I
have at this time I do not have any questions questions from the board yeah I have a couple out of all those houses on edar there do you know how many of those houses are 50 foot wide or
less I believe the M the majority of the ones I'm going to say in the 15 17 19 2123 that one I believe those are generally 43 by 100 Lots so I think 43 ft wide by 100 I think they're right
around 4,300 Ft so I think that's approximately what they measure some of them on the other side of the street the 10 12 14 Edgar um again I think are similar in wi either those might be 50 or 40 by because I mean you you
mentioned that you know by the numbers that you could put three houses on this lot and I I kind of disagree with that because for the fact number one it's a flag lot you would have to get sub three subdivisions for that property and
there's no way in Summit you would get a subdivision for a flag lot to put three houses there understood I I was not I was not stating based on the shape of the lot how many units we could get just saying one one house and another two
family can't do it here not going to happen agreed I I was going just as if you had a rectangle that was 16517 sare ft we had a rectangle that size we'd be able to get those three single families I agree this property
because of its unique shape likely can't arrange itself in that way but your ordinance contemplates if you're this size this is how many yeah but you have to use it in perspective too you can't just you know use the numbers and say it
works because of the numbers I mean it's it's logistically the way the property is laid out agreed we would have a we would have a host of other deviations if we were to try to go down that route and this board or whatever board would see it may deny it I'm just saying just taking the density
question what what could fit on a lot of this size not shape what could fit on a lot of this size and there are three units that can be constructed on lots of this size but I agree not this lot but lots of this size I have a question um for the
other homes on Edgar Street that you said with three units do you have many um have any idea how many bedrooms I don't so so they could be one bedroom units could be one bedroom could be two could be three I've never been inside I've been in a couple some of them all
one okay yeah there a couple are small thank you so you were out to the site and you you you were on edar Street yeah I've driven it walked the property would you say edger Street works now works uh when
schools you know well here's a scenario they replace the gas lines on Edgar Street occupants can't park there so what I know you're not a traffic engineer but would you say that the that street works the way it is now yeah that that street is again I'm going off the
expert you know something little less than 24 feet in width there is parking on one side 2hour parking so that students don't leave their cars there um it's tight but it's also a low generating street it's not a cut through
it's a cold to sack um based on rsis it's probably I I guarantee you it predates rsis in terms of its its width um that said again our three units especially because we could park it if we couldn't park it and we're going to say Hey listen the issues that they got
out on the street we're going to put another car out there on the street because we can't fit all of our people on our site I would say that would be exacerbating that condition potentially substantially M right now and this is based on the rsis numbers three units
the rsis considers townhous generate six trips a day would be 18 trips 18 trips you know nine out nine in is not making or breaking Edgar Street I think a couple extra cars on the street parking
that gets a little tighter y so and I'm just back to the other residences on on uh edar Street you you threw out a bunch of numbers for units per acre and blah blah blah blah uh would you agree that when those houses were constructed none of this
zoning I don't know when zoning was placed here but I know those structures seem to be from the 30s and 40s which typically predat corre so so um would you in your professional opinion uh if you were asked to rezone this
neighborhood would you exclude Lots 59 and 57 from the multif family that's neighborhood 25 and 29 Edgar I I don't know why or why they drew that line and again I've sat here on the on zoning boards before and I've been on the wrong
side of the line and I've been saying you know we're one block one lot away what does that mean and the rule is the line's dra but the line's dra yeah I could see there's different characteristics for those properties 25 Edgar 29 edar and again we're an oddball CU our
m i you know I got to follow the rules of year I'm just if you were if you were asked tomorrow to a reone the neighborhood what would you do I I I potentially would have drawn the line differently right but again said I got you're working I normally get hit the other way I gotta I got you
okay anyone else have questions right well as usual I have a few um so I guess you know the just to reiterate this house this proposal for this townhouse is being you know it's
being proposed when we have multifam um zoning ordinance in place in contrast to when the rest of edver street was developed and perhaps might have been developed differently but that's something we can't change is not being changed so we're really looking I
feel like correct where that's a distinction I realize you're putting in context of the neighborhood but that is a distinction 100% I'm not saying we shouldn't be here for a variant because they have more density I'm saying one of the thresholds is does it fit the neighborhood and I'm saying the neighborhood has density that's even
higher we're actually in between would you say though increasing density in a neighborhood that's already dense could exacerbate um some already existing issues in the neighborhood again I think one of the main issues is parking and
while all those other Lots do not comply assuming do not comply with parking that a mult family we do and I think that's one of the the big thresholds I think other issues as it relates to again those setbacks I think we'd be sitting here again looking at setbacks unless we
had a single family or two family house pushed up you know as we redrew that that box which again I don't think is is advantageous we could still have the same size building based on building coverage we could move it up and potentially have two units on the
property and I think that would actually be more detri Al to you know difference between three units and two units I don't think it's significant but our house is being moved up to right behind those rear lot lines I think are more intrusive let me just try can you explain how two units would be more
detrimental than three I don't think I'm following that yeah so let me try to I think we had it drawn no so assuming that the Box the permitted box is correct here I guess you guys can't even see that because it
was drawn too light see the red lines I squiggly Drew this is on the Fly assuming what the developable envelope would be if we followed the as if these were sidey yards behind us so we could build two units up to this red line as big as what
we're basically constructing now and the only difference would be would be that we would have potentially two more cars on the lot you know that you know two more cars on the lot one more family potentially in the neighborhood and
instead the buildings would be way up onto 15 ft off of the two houses that sit in front of us we're allowed to be 50 based on this we're allowed to be 15 understand that I'm not understanding about how there would be two more cars on the lot the
difference between like if we had two units versus three units so you're saying three units is two more cars three units is two more cars so um and that gets that actually goes to my other question I mean there's a lot of talk about the setbacks and how you're really
um sacrificing the backyard for the front yard but isn't it really the parking for three units that's driving the setback it's really what's requiring you to set the house back because you don't have space for the parking unless
you set that the building that far back is that I mean it looks to me that the entire front yard is parking and so that that's really your limiting factor there is that correct again if we were to build two units as I stated we'd have
two less parking spaces so we would essentially let's say eliminate 9 ft and be able to move the we would move the buildings up 9 fet if we were able to eliminate two parking spaces essentially based on this design we basically would let's say this parking space here and this parking space here
would go and everything could shift up 9 ft so the benefit would be 9 ft well I I think or would you say that if were two units that would be possible that the whole design would be reconfigured and we really don't know what the parking would look like possibly yeah yeah this
is going off of this but you're right there could be a different design plan um I'm just wondering why this wasn't brought with two units to meet the density of you know if you for the townhouse
and I don't know if you have an answer to that but I could only I don't know why I can only explain again looking at the other multif family housing in the area we're providing a Zone a density that is less
than the vast majority of them so I'd say somewhere between permitted and what's existing and we're somewhere in the middle and last question um in your experience as a planner uh is it typical that the zoning board would be expected to dictate what
the Landscaping plan would be that we would have to say what we're looking for for Landscaping on the property or is it normally the other way where the Landscaping plan is brought to the zoning board I would say I've never met a board that hasn't contemplated changes
to landscape plan so there's always give and take you know I've always asked had you know boards that ask for another two feet on the height of the trees or a different species something native something tree resistant but you know so I never have seen a perfect landscape plan come before the board so I think
this applicant instead of going through that exercise was like you know instead of going through that just tell us what you'd like to see and we'll put that on the plan but again I I I understand where you're coming from but if the board is to approve a plan how how can
we how can we you know it it's really it's really hard to approve a landscape plan that we don't know and and say these are our ideas and then we vote on it I'm I'm just trying to I I would like a little more explanation on that especially this maybe goes to m Clark
too because you've testified before the board several times and you have brought landscape plans for the other projects so I'm just trying to under that that's something that I'm um yeah I'm I'd like to see 24 foot trees all the way around the property that's my experience as a landscape
architect so that's why I've been asking you know normally a landscape plan comes it gives us something to look at something to chew on and it gives us a in our brain a visual idea of what's surrounding the property we have we have an occupant on the street that said hey those are my trees if they go down what
are you going to do for me so I mean I understand your point so that's kind of where I was going for before any other questions I have a question from for the handicap is that required
the handicap spot yes based on the number of units based on I don't know the exact requirements of proportions of handicap spaces to regular parking space do you happen to know ited it's it's usually a percentage yes the percentage
of the total and one in this instance would be what what would be necessary I think it's one for 25 one one for your first 25 usually rely on Engineers but so it doesn't matter if the actual building is not handicap accessible cor it doesn't matter so just you need a
handicap spot you can be in a wheelchair but you can't get into the unit that you're okay just checking okay you know I testified before there many hand could you come up to a mic Mr Clark microphone Mr
CL I know I know this from family members that you can get handicap license plates and placards because you have a heart condition and you you you can't you know you're not going to present the yeah you're not going to walk you know 100
yards to the front door of the Walmart you know you need to be closer most many of the people utilizing handicap spots are not in wheelchairs yeah but my my point was that there was nothing in the plan that does have a unit
that has elevators has ramp so that was my point Thank you any other questions from the board I'm going to ask this because I'm just curious we have one way to get into this piece of propert but there are other
sides to it has anything been looked at to work with one of the other property owners to gain access from the other side I can only say I have no I don't know I was not involved if there wasn't any discussions again the adjoining
properties are the school um you know the single family houses to our West and you have some and then we have multif family behind you just wondering if you get that particular group wouldn't be an obvious choice to
merge with I don't think that you turn the around and they face the field there's not a road there there's not a road that comes around unfortunately the parking looks like it saying it would have to go through the parking of
the not access ement it would require some work but it's because right now you're exiting into an area that's difficult any other questions from the
board questions from the public yes come up and use microphone please and if you could just restate your name for us thank you my name isina k s o t k i n a I have a
question when you are providing these numbers here uh did Drive ways counted for the total square footage or not because driveways not canot be used
for building anything correct I'm just waiting for the screen to load back up so the calculation was we determined the lot area so that's the entire property building driveway driveway okay
yeah it was driveway building any grass they had what your tax record showed for the approximate size for those lots and then I looked at tax records or counted mailboxes to determine how many units were in there tax records typically show Single family two family multif family
and has a number of units so that's that was the calculation if there are two mailboxes and one of the units have been combined I may not have captured that no no no my question was if you uh remove driveway from consideration for a building how
this number will change on our lot or the other ones our lot the your lot your lot is Edgar is load under consideration so the question is how much of our lot is driveway or parking
driveway or parking I will get you that driveway actually because you cannot uh build anything from driveway so um it is um so I mean I could get the difference between
driveway and parking area is about 5,9 driveway I'm not talking about driveway is probably 2,000 square ft is probably the neck here is about 2,000 square fet how this impact uh this
numbers of how many units you can build if you remove drive away from uh consideration so if we had 2,000 less square feet of our lot you B saying if our lot was really mhm this I'm referring to you'd be able to
build probably 2.9 units in that case was M any other questions from the public yes Kim damont 32 Edgar Street um so I had the question about whether the driveway was considered part of the calculation for the density and and all those
calculations so um it's not going to impact the coverage and so forth because it's not buil buildable well it does we do have to count it for coverage so that pavement counts against our coverage calc our our impervious coverage calculation and it
does become part of the denominator for the density calculations just like any other property the driveways are part of their lot so it is part of that calculation and that 2,000 feet is part of that
16517 square feet that our lot is okay um my next question is when you were showing all of Edgar Street and you were talking about the number of units for those multif family homes how many owners are there for for a home right
isn't isn't the home owned by one person and then rent it out I would assume so but possibly some are condos but again I I I don't know the ownership status of those units because we're talking about having three separate owners for this
property and I'm I'm questioning who's going to maintain the vegetation that you're planting in two years is it person in unit a unit B Unit C when the when the tree falls down or things like that I'm going to partially defer to
council because I believe that's the point of the HOA that's the homeowners association so there is one Central entity that owns the common space again someone has to own has to be an entity that owns the driveway everyone's going to be driving over it so there is going to be an HOA I believe
and that would be the single owner the overall owner correct the HOA will own the lot and then the units upon the lot will be owned by individual owners with the homeowners association being responsible for the care and maintenance of the exterior of the property
including any kind of foliage or tree maintenance or snow clearing we stated we would even put those types of things in the master de okay thank you um my last question um we we're talking about the number of parking spaces for a three bedroom but when we were talking earlier
and we were asking about the room in the Attic being um considered another bedroom how would that impact the parking regulations so your parking standards rely on the New Jersey residential site improvements standards which for three
bedroom so for town houses they have a two three and four bedroom standard we use 2.4 parking spaces per unit which is based on our bedroom count there's none there's no standard for beyond that but at 2.4 we have compliant parking that
would be seven right but I think that the that office space or whatever that's in the Attic that has a closet you know that's let's wink wink a bedroom that's a fourth bedroom all right that I think is a comment but if you want to make it
a question refr it I want to know how it how how that that unit impacts the parking requirements because I still don't think that seven parking spaces or six because one isn't one of them handicapped unless the police are going to be monitoring we we have eight and I
think we agreed that we would add a ninth if the garbage dumpster area was going to be individually placed in front of each of the units so that would be nine parking spaces one Ada so that would be eight I'm just looking at the
the number of houses on Edgar Street now and the number of cars and it doesn't appear that um those houses have 2.4 cars per three you know for a three bedroom so that's all thank
you just to clarify on the parking it's nine space spaces plus the three parking garage spaces or does that include the parking it's includ that includes the parking garage spaces okay just want to be sure about that any other questions from the public my name is n b a last name jatna
j a y a r a d h n e um 39 Street I would like to look at the the image with the zoning like uh yellowish and brown so my question is around uh because we
are like separating our two SS and uh saying that I'm going to plug it in closer to you hold on yeah but everybody remage that I'm referring to this is the one that is here's the hard copy why you ask the question I'll try
to describe it that's okay now uh my question is around uh because we are separating out two zones but uh edar street is sharing this both zones so basically maybe we are talking about like looking at focused on one zone and
saying this is compliance but uh is there a standard like uh kind of uh population D density is there a standard uh on a street where like with a dead end uh or is there a standard for Summit
uh on the population density that can be accommodated in a street with a dead end I don't know if specific population density I do know that there are standards for how long a street has to uh once a street gets a certain distance it needs to have an actual cold deac as
opposed to like a dead end where you K turn yourself around this obviously is sufficiently long or is needing to have the cold Tock at the end I don't know a specific standard on how many units or how many people can live on a uh a road
with no access no other access I don't I don't know a specific number yeah I also ask me question because for any building or any location there's a capacity limit but II I heard like in 1930s and 40s we did lot of those mistakes are we going
to keep on doing these mistakes and like impact on quality of life of the 39 in Street adding more uh units into a sing un it's questions only so you could say that com question like is there a standard Summit is looking at as a
standard KP again I I don't think there's a standard I don't know of a standard in terms of population density for a deadend street um I'm unaware of a specific one because I'm asking that question because if you keep on doing that sir that that's a that's a comment
for the end of the meeting okay are there any other questions yeah Robert 132 edar I have a question for the board I thought last time we were here oh there he's talking about the density and this and that as
far as how many people on now I thought we verified last meeting that the side this this lot is 3792 acres and a proposed building is required for two acres how
is this justifiable that's that's really commentary for the end of the meeting sir excuse me this is for questions of this witness what you're suggesting is commentary for the end of the meeting so i' suggest saving it until the public comment portion
okay are there any more questions for the planner yes um just a clarification um because I'm looking at your comparison to the other multif family homes and it seems like you're comparing multif family homes that are
already overly dense and Beyond compliance in today's day and age or you're comparing it against multif family homes that have egress on tomoris Avenue is that correct is that what the comparison is for I'm showing it's one
of the threshold issues in a density Cas is to show that it fits the neighborhood that's it's within so okay so if the neighborhood is already overly dense it's by being overly dense it's fitting the neighborhood well again it's one of the thresholds that the board can
consider and again our our case and one of the points that we'd like to make as the case for them to consider is that this is an area where this density would fit in um or actually less than some of that density obviously the board could also contemplate the potential negative impacts which again I don't believe that
the one extra unit that we're proposing is generating um a significant neg negative impact on a number of those kind of threshold issues obviously you or the board May disagree with that as well yes is there another question for the planner what you said right um so you
said that the lot has um um room for like two. 3% uh sorry two and then like9 wait I okay never mind sorry was 2.3 2.3 2.3 okay um so that number is
closer to two than three so I want to know why you think you can do three when the number is closer to two and if it's fitting in with like the aesthetic of like the neighborhood if the aesthetic
is dense and this is like very dense why do you want to make it more dense especially since it's like a dead end stream okay good question um so what I was making the case for and I agree we we are here because we want three where
2.3 are allowed if we didn't want that we we wouldn't be talking about that issue I was stating that there are other developments if the houses were not connected and there were three separate houses on our siiz lot our area we could
fit three houses we could fit a double house and a single house also on our lot of that size that because of the type of house we building we need relief from this board and that's that's why we're here
if if we're trying to make the case that that extra 7 is not significantly negative to the community I understand your perspective but have you ever considered that um you don't have to do
three properties you could do two and instead uh 100% And that's an option that the board can decide when they vote on this application okay thank you for your time are there any other questions for the planner okay seeing none I think we'll
move to public comment is this at this time if there are any members of the public who'd like to address the board now is the time and just know I'll be swearing each of you in so if you could please raise your right hand when you're ready second
I just don't want to drop anything do you swear airm the testimony you're about to give in this matter the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do and one more time state your name spell your last name Katherine Rubenstein Katherine was a k r u b i n s h t e y n 35 edar
Street um give me just a second I'm going to pass on some other things for the board but I just need to plug in um just a little bit of History something that one of the neighbors came
um into the historical society and was able to discover just the perspective I guess so that we can um appreciate the reason for this size and uh structure of the property doesn't show
up okay oh there it is all right um so what this is um and I have a presentation of the rest of the pictures but I just wanted to share this this um so we'll have to if you could describe what it is and then
we would need to mark this will um this is um old original or one of the very early um Summit maps with the um houses on um
at stre it's the Union County New Jersey 1938 scale one in 100s survey where did you obtain it um one of the neighbors obtained it from the summit historical society and I just Council any objection
to this particular exhibit Council any any objection to this particular exhibit no it's right okay okay we're going to mark it as 01 so this is Edgar Street back then and
all the multif family area um is there it's it's really for more for um kind of pointing out these are the um 28 32 and 27 they all belong used to belong to a single family family of Cane family
um this 32 uh which is number 25 was actually had um a structure built in it these two properties at the time of 1938 didn't have any buildings this is just illustrational and that would explain how come there is so little space
because the family built for the family members I'm not going to go into more of the history but this is the original kind of beginning of where um things were back then so if you see here this this is just increased family of Frank
Kane family and some of the people actually remember him owned these three uh buildings right this is the one was buil this was just the property this is just for a historical appreciation of why such a IR regular shape but I just
want to um share the um presentation of some of the pictures that we prepared in the neighborhood to just kind of give you guys an idea of what our street looks like but for some reason my presentation doesn't want to
work yes it's tired I appreciate everybody's time I'll just do this before doesn't want to work now um I will have to come back if I can but what I do want to share I'm not sure why I can't see
my do you think you can find um the share Drive the the the um no I mean the thing like it was here before but it disappeared um this is a letter we wrote and um kind of it's just for you guys
the copies but uh we just want to have it for the record and these are some of the pictures that we we we'll need you to just show it to applicants Council first to see if he I'm okay um this is picture with the conest congest I'll
show the board I'm I'm fine um some of the congestion and I apologize it worked before but the um this is some other you know can I appreciate the narrowness and the amount
of cars we have on our street um um this is the situation with the garbage when there is recycling of the some of the neighboring multi family houses as it
is and um this is one of the situations when we have bigger trucks I have more pictures unfortunately for technical reasons I don't want to waste everybody's time but the narrow of the street is a
big issue for us and um since technology fails me I'll just think um just want to say um in short so proposed Varan for 27 Street fails to
meet zoning requirements it does not provide any public benefit it poses significant safety risks threatens character and and live livelihood and liability of the street and the neighborhood imposes undue burdens on
the community infrastructure so on on behalf of the street or rather you know it's may be my opinion but uh we actually respectful request not to Grant any um kind of um
variances to to to decrease significantly the quality of our street um and I'll leave this with you if if this works would be great but I try it so we'll we'll need those
copies and You original and I will uh print out the um document that I didn't I only shared on the digital but this I'll leave you with you and then uh you can can you email that document as well I will
my thank you so much all of this will be posted on on the website yes sir um I'm sorry just one Moree I realized something that maybe I
can um share that you're not you're not put to the screen just so you know yeah you a couple pictures that I also wanted to share that's why I kind of brought this but it seems like okay
this was one of the letters that I sent um again on behalf of the street to tap into Summit what I want to point out here the actual pictures can you see so this is the house in question um this is facing back towards
the house um where currently the driveway is this is facing from the street and that car would have to move um to Park this is behind the house high
school property okay that that's pretty much um all I wanted to share and we just to give the appreciation of the gr Grant scheme of um the house that being built on this kind of property is just doesn't
seem um honest and um TR fair for for the neighbor thank you all right so that third article will be marked as 03 no objection thank you thank you and I'll
email it to you right now yes I got it any other comments from the public yes I won't make I need to swear if you could raise your right hand raise your right hand please do swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matters the
truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes and state your name spell your last name Jessica Gutman g m 29 Edgar Street thank you I won't prolong this I won't um reiterate what Katherine said but as you can tell the entire neighborhood is against the proposal as
it stands now it just increases density beyond what we can accommodate there are so many concerns regarding Waste Management sto storm water parking various emergency and everything but um just in
terms of the historical context in addition to it e one lot that was owned by the Cane family back in 1956 a zoning Board of summit granted a variance to build a single family home on that plot that is now 27 Edgar Street and back
then with fewer residents and less traffic the board expressed concerns about the lack of Frontage and inadequate yard space for a single family d back there in 1956 when there was far less density on the Block before all of the other single family homes
were even built in the C act and um I think once you see her presentation it'll sort of put everything into context any other comments from the public yes yeah come back up to the microphone
I'll need you to raise your right hand do you sarir the testimony you're about to give in this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth uh I do and please state your name spell your last name Ian sclar SK L A R thank
you um so my problem is with the parking um since this is already a crowded Street um adding three more houses is not going to help so I take piano lessons um from Mrs gutman's
wife oh husband wrong thing um and sometimes it gets really hard to like Park and then one time we always had to park on Morris and then getting three more houses will like make this chance percentage of having to park on Morris
higher and I don't want to park on Moors because one time we tried running across Springfield and it was not fun and not just me but Eddie um her husband also has like 30 other students and it increases the risk for us children to
have potential injury um the other thing is even when like everybody else on the street has like for Christmas the holidays all that stuff they have their like brothers sisters cousins and whatnot come over
then like um maybe like somebody who because trouble walking has to walk across Morris and that like makes it even more unsafe so I think we should leave it as it is and just like try and make it safer for everybody thank you
for your time hi I'm Kevin Testa 34 AER Street do you swear from the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do can you just spell your last name please t s a thank you um I've lived on Edgar Street for 24
years and I've witnessed uh parking problems on the street since I arrived illegal parking makes it difficult to safely back out of driveways and spot children walking to the high school and it's not unusual for an illegally parked
vehicle to temporarily prevent cars from moving up and down eggar these problems only increase in the days and weeks after a significant snowstorm cars are often ticketed on egar but this does little or nothing to
solve our problem um according to uh police record there were 29 tickets in the last 15 weeks for overnight parking alone uh the proposed condo complex will
only make a bad situation a worse the number of mailboxes on Edgar indicates that we already have roughly 48 families on our compact Street this project would raise the number to
50 um I realize they have more spaces than the law requires but having nine spots doesn't ensure that parking needs will be addressed well uh will truck drivers making large deliveries be able to find a spot out near the town homes
will contractors performing lengthy work be able to park legally will parking problems on edar Street increase when trucks and cars can't park in the condo log most homes on my street were built at a time when families usually had one
car times have changed Edgar now has many households with two or more Vehicles the street cannot accommodate three large town houses with a small parking lot please vote nowk you are they
okay please raise your right hand do you swear airm the testimony you're about to give this matters the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do and state your name spell your last name my name is Alexi Berna last name b i r n a so I'm the owner of 25 Edgar Street so
the 57 lab so what I can confirm that you know Mr caparo yeah he approached me with a proposal you know of change the direction of the stairs um but however you know like I want to mention that he approached with
this proposal in the middle of last week so so basically he didn't you know like leave us with no time you know to fully process you know to consider his proposal changes so this is just one my
my statement you know that they were true you know they have a proposal but they just like wait for three months since last meeting you know to come to me and kind of you know like oh this is what we can propose this is what you can
do but as I said you know they just leave us with few days you know to think about it so this is one of my statement comment Al Al like something else I would like to say that you know like even today on the last meeting you know there are like were harsh statements
that I'm parking on the 27 Edgar property but the only like what I'm parking I I have a picture you know like if you don't have any so I'm going present you so you can take it so this
is this is the property this is how I'm parking this is the property lines so basically a TI yeah it's on the 27 Street and basic and I'm only the owner for five four and a half
years and I'm parking there yeah so but this house ler this property is from 1920 and also this the entire the the 27 Edgar stre Street is from 1950 so and I
have a witness here who can who can basically confirm you know that since then this piece of land it was used by 27 Edgar Street owners um
another say another thing what I can say that the same way I'm kind of parking on the 27 Edgar Street property the same way they are parking on my property as well and you know what is the reason
because my fence it's my fence it's installed 2 feet inside of my property so they're basically the the picture which they show previously you know the dumpster are are sitting on my property
right now ideally so but I didn't you know didn't say anything or make any comments you know that why your downstair is there so from here it's kind of question I have a question kind of a question that okay what if they
going to start they're going to start you know the construction so what is going to happen if I sign the agreement let's say I sign the agreement let's say you know like they're going to redo my
driveway they're going to change my stair Wares um so what is going to come first because from what I can see they are like keep saying you know that they have like 18 ft of property which it means that next to my driveway there would be
like heavy equipment and and and cars going back and forth so I guess this is this was my comment and also like it's a it's not like a question that I want them to
answer to me right now you know but just like to generalize like to add to all this meting thank you so much I'll just briefly note that any Arrangements you make about that construction on your property that's between you and the
applicant um so timing areas of construction that would be spelled out and whatever agreement you signed with them um aside from that I'll just also note that we're going to mark that picture as' 04 okay thank you and also like I have another picture you know like the stairs
how they you know how my stairs oriented so so this is what they're proposing to to change the this way so as you can see I already have a stairs and this is my door so if they're going to change then you know my stairs will
go like four more than four inside this because like in the plant anywhere you know like it's not mentioned that I have already stairs and and like in this spot and I have a
all right we'll mark that second one as 05 thank you so much thank you do you s affirm the testimony you're about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do and please state your name spell your last name Robert Delmont d e l m o n t
and just address one more time please 32 edar street thank you I have lived 66 well I have 66 years of experience with the water related issues on Edgar Street my family has owned this property since 1959 my daughter now is the third
generation owner of this house and as earlier as I stated I think in the last meeting it's 39 3792 Acres is uh the size of this property and the
required acreage for this size building is 2 Acres I think this raises serious concern about Water Management okay our house is on the higher side of edar street and we
experience water runoff from property above kpl Boulevard New England Avenue High Street the property that is concerned with this uh variance is lowered in our house and it will evitably get additional water runoff
that flows down and will go down to the high school and the apartments below now according to United States Geological Survey rainfall calculator one inch of rainfall produces six
gallons of water per square yard or 27,1 154 gallons per acre so lot 58 this equates to 10,296 gallons of water for one inch additional water runoff from higher
properties look make this matter worse the catch Basin that's designed for this property from Mr uh add here um green it's will hold
24,000 gallons of water however if we get 2 and a half inches of rain that Basin will not be able to accommodate that water because that'll be result in 2,740 gallons of water which will exceed that basing
capacity now we frequently experience water brought off from the properties above us and is the also is there's an underground stream which goes behind our property down AG Street down Mars Avenue
by auditory school which added to this problem and historical events like Hurricane Floyd in two in 1998 Hurricane Irene in 2011 super storm Sandy
2012 we had rainfalls of 7 in to 14 in 11 in to 16 in and 11 in respectively we get storms like this here where is this water going to go and I think I urge
this board to really consider this and reject this plan thank you there any other members of the public who wish to comment yeah I'd like to examine that
one can you hand it to council first so that'll be 06 uh we are up to 06 okay yes just PES Katherine Rubenstein 35 at Street I
promise right everybody's so late but this thing is actually near and dear for all of us so we're hoping it will be for the rest of the people who can help um excuse me if we can just have
quiet so we can hear the public comments um this is demonstration of what will happen and um I heard that the dumpsters are supposingly will be not along the curve but just to appreciate if if
they're not here they would be here and even if this area is redone you can imagine that it still becomes quite difficult to navigate another issue is
um so this is currently where lots of kids are and just briefly are these the same pictures that you showed us this is different I will add it to the via email so this is the two
um I guess Park Park spaces driveways right and um this is the condom minimum and um this quite congested Corner my son actually was riding dirt bike over here and almost hit car over
here so there are lots of kids on the street and school children also passed by narrowness of the street and additional cars on the street really do create um safety
issues that's that's all I wanted to add thank you so much I will forward it to the email Mr ball this of the exhibit submitted by the last uh witness we have no objection to the entry of this uh but note that this is not a finding of the board this is merely an agenda so the use of the
word that the board was concerned uh is not the finding of the board uh it was that the application concerned a certain issue as opposed to a finding or statement of opinion by a prior board so without a resolution obviously we don't know what the board decided but we can
certainly accept this as a you know as the agenda for that meeting and that will be 06 any other public comments would the city have a copy of the resolution that goes along with that meeting what was the I'm making you
you're pushing your luck because that's going back quite a bit okay so if there are no more public comments we're going to hold closing arguments let look council is as we discussed earlier what I'd appreciate is if Mr Malay uh would
make himself available to view the video and then we can return I think you mentioned it was March 17th is that the next meeting yes so just a a quick explanation because I know we have a lot of members of the public here as you can see there's only six members of the board present a full board membership is seven members the applicants because
they require five votes for a d variance they're entitled to request that the actual vote occur at a meeting where the full membership is present so that's what's happening here um we are going to then be I imagine moving to carry this
application until March 17th March 17th without further notice where we've concluded all the testimony we would only be hearing the applicants attorney's closing comments and then the board would go into deliberations and vote on that application there won't be
any further testimony or comments from the public at that point um might I also suggest that we remind both Council and the public that there are 11 potential members who may read the testimony listen to the video and the
regular members and alternates in yeah no objection will vote correct so depending on who's who is present that night it may not be Mr Malay or I understand yes yeah it could be any one of the members that wasn't present here sure everybody understand and uh and I of course stipulate to the extension of
time for the board to to um make a decision so is there a motion think we have a question okay y so if they came with like their landscape plan whatever they can't are
they going to be they present that that's up to the chairman of that meeting on to whether to allow that in so yeah if there is additional testimony that is allowed at that meeting then the public would be a ask questions and comment at that point thank you but that
that's not the intention at this point I don't think we have time for that at that meeting either I would expect that if that's the circumstance I'm going to contact the board secretary in advance of that and at that point the 17th would be merely a scheduling
meeting so that we could then avoid a notice for whatever future meeting the board would have time on I haven't contemplated that yet because it's I haven't eaten since noon but sounds appropriate okay motion to carry without further
notice until March 17th no motion second Mr Nelson yes Mr Steiner Miss Cho yes Mr San Chuli yes Mr ning yes Vice chair Zan yes and then yes we have nothing nothing on the back
today yes yes for that 11:00 sorry I'm tired e