all right good morning everyone how are you commissioner Joseph can you have a seat please we're calling the meeting to order Marlene yes good morning morning okay commissioner Jo
jph here vice mayor Alex Lama here commissioner sto commissioner viscara here and mayor feton here thank you um okay before we start the discussion we have a few people in the audience so um this is a
workshop there's no public comment however if you wanted to give any input or have any questions you can email um the city clerk it's going to be on the screen the email or um or afterwards you can speak to the city manager or or any of us um and then also I'm asking for
the commission so that to uh reserve your questions until you're called on so that we have the um best time to allow everyone to ask all of their questions this is a pretty important meeting so I want to make sure everyone has an opportunity um to be heard and with that please go
ahead okay good morning mayor vice mayor and Commissioners um the last time that we discussed the Town Center North Vision was this past summer in July of 2024 and uh today we welcome back uh Caitlyn Forbes and Jeff cadams with complete City Planning Group to further
explore the commission and the city's desired vision for the study area um the goal this morning is to receive direction from the commission um so that way we can create a vision document for Town Center North which will then come back uh before you for adoption that Vision document will
then inform the future policy and code amendments that will codify that Vision um so with that I'm going to hand it over to Caitlyn and Jeff great thank you just GNA get let the PowerPoint up here and go ahead and get started
good evening mayor and members of the commission as Amy mentioned as a reminder Caitlyn Forbes and Jeff Gams with complete cities for the record uh we're very excited to be here with you again uh specifically on the Town Center North visioning uh process and project that we uh have been working through for
the last year and a half or so um as you'll remember last summer we started um a workshop process with you to talk about um some of the specifics after we went through uh pretty robust public engagement process so uh since that's been a little bit of time I'm going to
start uh our presentation today by reminding you some of the of some of the um highlights of the project the process that we've been through and some of the key decision points that we've asked you um to make to date and so that'll be the first part of the presentation and then we'll get into the second part where
we'll look to you um to have some discussion and some back and forth on some of the additional decisions that we're um requesting Direction on today um so just as a reminder of course as it relates to the Town Center North project specifically uh we were tasked with
identifying some challenges and opportunities within Town Center North and particularly as it relates today's topic uh determining whether that original Town Center North Vision still stands whether it's still appropriate for the area given kind of the history and um development patterns that have
happened over time and so if it does then we would simply establish the comprehensive plan maximums that are um currently missing from the plan for Town Center North um and if it doesn't then we would be tasked with developing an alternative Vision um and then
identifying the necessary comprehensive plan um standards as it relates to density and intensity and the corresponding changes that may be needed for the Land Development regulations um so again our role in this whole process was really to facilitate the public engagement and tease out um
the existing challenges and opportunities in Town Center North um the vision from the residents perspective and the business owners perspective and some of those key stakeholders and then present those findings to you which is largely what we accomplished at the first workshop and then we kind of went into a process of some back and forth questions you'll
remember um at our July Workshop um so of course then given that direction um from the July Workshop in today then we'll um shift into the actual text amendments for the compr Ive plan amendment in the Land Development regulations ultimately with a goal of
ensuring of course a legally viable plan but also importantly one that reflects the public um opinion and vision so again as promised just a two-part series here of our discussion the summary recap and then uh part two is actually two parts as well um so there's both the
short-term and long-term um Improvement and potential um Vision that we're going to discuss with you today so just as a reminder of course the um study area for Town Center North um the area map uh that we'll be discussing here is on the screen and some of these slides you know
we went through a lot of this at the first Workshop so it's really here in case we need to go back and reference it right so this is the original Vision that we discussed at the first Workshop um the key pieces of this were really that the original Vision contemplated the area as being a true economic Hub um
for the city and that it was really an international destination right so that implies some sort of scale and intensity um that maybe the residents didn't feel was still appropriate for the Town Center North Area um it talks about an 18-hour District um a lot of vertically
integrated mixed use structures um including structured parking and it just kind of rang of a a different intensity than what the public opinion is for for this area today so this was the original vision and we can come back to this if
we need to reference it of course um this was the current future your land use map um you'll see the overlay area for Town Center North uh the issue here being that Town Center North does not currently have maximums as it relates to F floor area ratio and density in the
comprehensive plan so if someone were to submit a development application today uh they would be subject to the underlying land use um density and intensities being mixed use business and the medium to high density residential categories which are the pink and red areas there um and then you'll remember
this slide uh which really quickly summarized the differences between the different land use and the zonings and the discrepancies or differences between those categories right so we talked about the differences uh between each of the land uses in the zoning as it relates to again density intensity and
height that should look familiar and then the next part that we discussed at the initial Workshop was the concept of floor eror ratio what it includes and doesn't include importantly it does not include parking structures which means that um you could potentially have larger struct structures than maybe
initially contemplated and the second key piece here was that um the zoning actually requires 70% of the ground floor of uh multif family structures to have a non-residential or retail component on the ground floor um again there was a
desire from the public for the residential portions of town center North kind of stay residential right so this is a requirement currently and we talked about whether you would continue to require that or whether that would simply be an option and then this chart again um
we'll have this for reference if we need to come back to it but this um summarizes all of the existing conditions um for the different developments in Town Center North and shows the over and underbuilt properties and some of their um existing conditions for density and f as well so of course
the kind of heartbeat of this project has been the public Outreach process we uh had a wonderful focus group um where we had three iterative meetings and built on different concepts and uh really teased out some really good guiding principles for future Redevelopment from them uh we really
enjoyed working with them and hearing from them there's a good mix of different stakeholders across the city and different Industries um we also had two different open houses and online survey different popup events we met with this uh senior group um and did a
round table with them which was great and of course we had our Workshop um at the at in the summer of last last year so the public opinion just as a uh reminder for the summary we brought this to you uh again at our last Workshop but generally the biggest
takeaway was don't repeat the east side right and the term uh beachy Village came out of a lot of the discussions right so there was really a desire uh for a low-scale pedestrian oriented neighborhood serving um Center as
opposed to maybe what the original Vision called for which is really that International destination right we heard that a lot of people enjoy the fact that they can do some of their daily shopping there it meets their daily needs as opposed to something that's so high-end that maybe they go there once or twice a
year right um of course there was a desire to see the current commercial plazas redeveloped and enhanced um as well as see an increase in open space and readdress the Collins Avenue treatment um something that's a little bit more comfortable for pedestrians
some shade and Landscape um ideally their preferred condition would result in a reduction of development allowances below what the current uh zoning regulations allow for and limit new residential as much as possible in that area of course that all
relates to traffic impacts um our focus group gave us a as a said um some good guiding principles some of which we uh highlighted here which would be keeping the height away from Collins Avenue prioritizing open space at the ground level improving The Pedestrian
experience establishing new internal streets so that there was a feel of um kind of retail streets as opposed to just surface parking that directly abots Collins and then um to that end also incorporating new structured parking so these were the questions that
we asked you in July uh you'll remember the series of questions started with whether the original Town Center Vision still stood whether it was worthwhile to kind of have a trade-off between density and intensity to see the commercial properties redevelop noting that it will
probably take some level of density and intensity to entice someone anyone uh to redevelop their property right and then we talked about okay well what if those allowances were tied to some public realm features we talked about whether residential uses should continue to be
allowed on those commercial properties um again noting that there's probably some requirement um for residential in order for them to actually move forward with the Redevelopment plan and then kind of conversely whether retail should be allowed to expand into the resident
IAL areas um as a principal use um or only on the ground floor um again currently it is a requirement for multif family to have that mixed use we talked about colins's ab and we talked about the inward versus outward facing commercial centers and we talked about Building
height um so this mayor I'm going to go ahead and read the um summary that we presented or that we we would like to present to you for feedback so when I get done with this slide I'll look to you to uh have some disc discussion and tell us whether uh you think as a
commission we accurately captured the feedback from the first meeting or if there's some adjustments to the points that we made here um so like I said we're going to read to you what we think you said to us based on the conversation but um we're going to pause right after and just let us know if um there's some
things that you would like to you know agree to adjust on the slides here so the first is that the original vision for a fully integrated mixed use area with a new Street grid does not still stand with the caveat that the new vision is more nuanced right so that the
original Vision in its entirety isn't still applicable and that you have a different more nuanced vision for Town Center North um the second concept being that you would prefer to see the scale and separation of commercial and resid residential areas within Town Center
North stay about the same um and enhance the Aesthetics of the commercial centers so generally what's there people are comfortable with but we note that there's some improvements that could be made especially as it relates to the appearance and the um the function of those commercial centers the next being
that we should keep the commercial areas a lower scale with some allowance for mixed use keeping the height lowest adjacent to Colin sa so the height would be kind of pushed back um into more of the center of the area but we recognized that there may be some need again for
the uh the mixed use features to see the Redevelopment of those centers actually take place um that we would prefer to see the arcade plazas redeveloped again with some um limited amount of residential to support or if not redeveloped enhance the the uh the
centers with more parking and a better parking layout with more pedestrian outdoor dining areas better drainage a better back of house meaning like all the service areas uh and a safe and buffered walking experience especially along Collins so the concept being a
Redevelopment and no Redevelopment scenario so um I think that was similar with the public consensus right that they would like to see the commercial centers redevelop to some scale but if they weren't redeveloped at least enhance the existing conditions um and then moving towards
the bottom of the slide generally keeping the residential area as it is and keep the commercial vehicle traffic separate while enhancing The Pedestrian connections to the commercial areas so there wasn't a strong desire to create you know additional Street good networks and allow for more um cross connections
from a vehicular standpoint but to really focus on The Pedestrian connections from the West into the east side of of town center North and to allow but not require retail on the ground floor in the residential area um so with that mayor I'll look to the
commission to have some discussion on that summary slide and see if there's any adjustments or if we generally concur with uh the fact that that was you know the the summary of the July Workshop okay uh commissioner viscar do you want to start
yeah I still um um now have to look at slides but there is like this the cons part of the consensus was that we want the residential to stay the way that it is but then allowing but not requiring
incidental ground floor retail is not the way that it is so I think that we should um respect that this this is the input of the of the community and then we're going against it and I'll remind you that I'm
the commissioner who lives there and I can tell you that one in in even in previous public engagement uh we being in such a congested area this is you know traffic is always a problem Etc right I don't need to tell you how
jammed we are um that residential area is is is a it's very peaceful um it it it's we have a wide Road and and it's um it's like a breather away from what the hectic
aspects around us uh and so I I would really like to see that preserved I I mentioned at the last meeting that um you know this idea of well because you want the the residential to have access to to the commercial and that's the idea
with the mixed use this particular area a lot of the residential has access to the commercial via the back way so we're not missing it um in fact when we have tried to implement I can speak for
my complex uh there's always it's we don't have it for a reason right there's there's there's always been little conflicts around that so um if the public is is telling you they don't want it I would leave it out that would be my
my suggestion thank you okay and for the purposes of this discussion I just would like to get clarification um because I know that there's been some confusion what is there versus what is allowed to be there so can you please clarify that
because many residents say keep it as is but as is is not necessarily what it can be based on what we have right now in our in uh ordinance in our code rather sure there's certainly um several underdeveloped properties largely being
The RK centers right there um if they were to redevelop under the current allowances they'd be able to build out to much greater than a two-story retail only shopping center um as well as some of the um smaller scale Residential
Properties like the Salem House and Aila South um those would certainly even Beach play those would be able to build um to a much greater intensity and density than they are today conversely there's some properties um that are over the development allowances rate um just
given the discrepancies between the comprehensive plan and the zoning regulations but um currently when you say keep it as is I think people are generally referring to the twostory environment but it is correct
to note that the current regulations um would be much greater than what the current conditions reflect and the commercial requirement that is you said 70% I believe so for a multif family structure the Town Center um
North zoning District would require that the ground floor has at least 70% right now of a non-residential use being retail or commercial so if to commissioner Vascar point if we were to change that based on what is built there
we would have to change that code that would be certainly a piece that I think you would look at amending to eliminate that or even prohibit it depending on how far you wanted to go okay great thank you um b m do you want to go next may I may I just interject for a moment
goad um when when I say leave it the residential without the commercial I mean the existing residential if we're going to uh be developing a mixed use where let's say you know RK redevelops and they want to make it mixed use I I
don't object to to that I'm just objecting to inserting commercial where there currently isn't any yes understood all right thank you for the clarification yeah so in regards to what we're talking about mixing residential
with commercial I think that we need to keep in mind that we are a very narrow City we only have one street traversing through there so probably that will change we'll make more inside internal streets but my concern is we're going to
be taking the traffic from Collins and you know passing it on to or adding it to the back where right now it is peaceful and I think that the sentiment of um the residents is that they want to keep it cozy they want to keep it like
neighborly so I think that needs to be Paramount and um when it comes to development we need to be mindful of the density and intens density I understand that there are economic um let's say
questions um let's say somebody comes and devel redevelops for instance Arc plazas right um the density is probably not going to stay the same it's not going to be two stories uh so we had talked a few years ago more
than a few years ago about perhaps arcade going for stories uh but I think the main point is that it needs to be kept where it's not suffocating uh because what what's transpired on the east of Collins and what we have right
now in the city it it feels overwhelming uh to be honest with you and I think that we need to be very careful not to you know pass that on or to make that same let's say um development on on on
the other side and we definitely need to keep the uh the commercial and the residential separated because we are a narrow City we don't have the you know uh the geography of like a Doral or some other cities where they have those
internal streets imagine we have commercial you know right on North Bay Road and um we have traffic jams I mean we already have a traffic jam with one of the residential buildings where the entrance is kind of awkward and you have
a lot of backup there I can't imagine putting some commercial there and then H having it become worse so that's my idea I think what like the city of Dale has done and and some other cities um with
their downtowns I think it's it's perfect you know you have um you have streets that make it very easy to for pedestrians and for cars to kind of go in and out and um the shops themselves
look very appealing and then on the back I don't know if those buildings spe I'm thinking specifically of Dalal and and daa point ER I think some of those buildings that are residential have commercial but it's like it it's done correctly we don't have that space But I
think we could look into something like that without the commercial that the residential buildings yeah now my question is we're sitting here talking have we had conversations with some of these stakeholders I mean you have Plaza of the Americas you have a lot of
buildings um and I know that this is kind of like laying the groundwork or let's say the the template so when those buildings redevelop it it happens in a certain way um but my question is
you know have we had conversations with some of the stakeholders so we had a pretty robust public engagement process that largely occurred in the spring and summer of last year and so we definitely had representatives in our focus group of um
from Town Center North Town Center South uh and then we purposely picked people that kind of represented the full spectrum of the city north to south um and then everyone was welcom to of course participate in the open houses and the online surveys as well and we were able to um parse out Town Center
North survey responses versus the overall City so that we could see if the residents within Town Center North felt differently than the overall City generally they actually U were pretty consistent there wasn't a a major discrepancy um but we've definitely been engaged with um the different
residential communities as well as the commercial stakeholders as well okay all right what has been the um the uh feedback from the commercial stakeholders um so far you know of course they haven't expressed a large
desire to redevelop um anytime in the near future because the economy of course is um doing pretty well saying pretty stable right so they're very leased up all of their spaces are pretty much occupied um so there's not a a large desire to undergo
the lengthy construction process at this point usually that's going to happen probably more in your economic downturns where you're not um having as much success leasing those spaces you might uh look at different opportunities um but right now I think they're pretty
happy and staying status quo and doing what they're doing since they're having having pretty good luck leasing right now all right thank you Mr Joseph yes okay so right now as far as I see it um
the cats family are the champions of our city as far as um with their um malls and the arcade plazas um and I'm hoping that they have have a plan to keep them as is or um
slightly restructure them but with the idea of having them be similar to what they are now um without that if let's say if arcade plazas were in the hands of another developer I think this city
would quickly be like New York City unfortunately so um I look at the Arc plazas now as they are as uh suiting the city
perfectly um that um they are What the residents want um you know more or less like someone said they could uh you know look into uh repairing the drainage issues um
maybe uh working on uh having different dining uh formats but other than that as far as the height of the structures and the plazas themselves they suit our city for what uh should be desired for many
years to come I know on the North End of the city I know we're not talking about that today but we have issues that I'm concerned with with a commercial Marina that's uh proposed um that we need to fight off
um the property behind Publix right next to our school um is there's an intent to um tremendously increase our traffic there so but that's another discussion
but um right now I think having non-commercial in the interior streets of um of uh this area is exactly what the resident want and I believe we should uh move
forward and you know with a status quo any um now what I wanted to ask you do you know of any uh properties that are in Jeopardy of being bought out in the Town Center North Area um I'm
not sure if staff would be prepared to answer that question I'm we have to be concerned with go ahead Mr city manager I'm not aware of anything right now okay so yeah so if a my what I would like to see if
there is a property bought out that the uh density and intensity should remain the same as what's currently built as what's currently built correct just replacement structure thank
you commissioner stensson you're up okay there is an area that is being empty for over two years now which is The Epicure kind of plaza or Square area whatever so it's not being rented like successfully like the arcade plazas um any thoughts
about that specific piece of property because it's not as successful as the other ones so there is a big potential that something's coming in the near future about the how you had conversation with these developers yes we've talked with the different Property Owners you of course it's very
underdeveloped as compared to what they could potentially do you know obviously each IND each individual developer has its own timeline and interest and different portfolio where they might be focusing in different areas but um I would anticipate at some point in the
um shorter term future that you might see Redevelopment plans just because it is such a um right for redevelopment property largely being that a large portion in the rear doesn't even have a structure on it right and then you have a very small single story structure up
uh against Collins Avenue so so with the rules as they are right now what is the potential development there as of right now so if you were to submit a plan today um that would be
under the mixed use business land use um and that has a base density of 25 units per acre up to 85 units an acre with bonuses and an intensity of a 2.0 f um so that's largely for your
non-residential pieces which means uh 2.0 floor area ratio um and there's no height measurements in the comprehensive plan but there are a wide variety of different height allowances throughout to Town Center North in the Town Center North zoning District but now height uh
for height yes there's different um Street types there so along Collins there's generally um a 50 foot um height allowance for the first 130 fet and then it gets higher as you go further back
into um into the center and into the the center of of town center North so it just depends on exactly where you are on the property but it does get to be a pretty substantial height allowance okay okay okay that's my question
okay you can continue may I ask for a CL just sure go ahead because I'm having trouble with I'm sure your answer is correct I'm just having trouble putting it together in terms of with all the numbers Okay so
simple question back to The Epicure um piece of land and I understand right that's why you have the buildings that look like like cash registers like this and like this so could we have a 30 story
building so it depends on where you are in the site right because you do have height regulations highest place in the back of the property could you have a 20 story structure there um you could have up to the maximum is 190 ft for the
district and on that street in particular where Epicure is located the max would be 140 ft so about 14 to 15 stories depending how you design it that helps me thank you but part of the problem is this very complicated Street Network map that's why it's every
single property is different in the Town Center North as terms of height so um it's a very cumbersome code how it's currently drafted but that's why the answers are are cumbersome it's not your fault I'm sure what you're saying
is correct I but how do we explain that right so long story the super simplified answer to commissioner st's question is you can have a 15 story building there yes in the back and you know it'll C
register like you said up to about that height probably like like a cruise chip you a cruise yeah exactly okay but I believe we're looking to do away with the with the birthday case aren't we we discussed that same thing um well I don't know I think I think that it was it was alluded to
because they're talking about uh sorry they're talking about putting um the lower buildings along Collins and then gradually increasing yeah so I I know we had discussed something about uh maybe
500 feet off Collins to to make some type of restriction regarding uh the distance off Collins that we would not allow a highrise like I said back continue with
the okay um mayor did you have any comments no I want to keep going and then I'll I'll have my questions probably towards the end okay so that was um our first stopping point we just wanted to get some feedback on again our summary of your
feedback to us to make sure um that we accurately captured um your initial Direction actually I am going to stop you for a moment because I think that this is um back to some a question that was brought up did do you have any um data as far as what percentage of the I guess focus groups and uh survey takers
and conversations that you had were the business owners versus the property owners the visitors and residents yes we were able to separate out the survey um into not just the survey every conversation I know that you met with the uh property owner separately
yeah so we have um the focus group obviously we have all that information because we had about 12 to 15 people in the focus groups and we know exactly who those folks were and they were a wide range of residents business owners people that lived you know the full range North to South throughout the city
so we intentionally selected a pretty diverse group um from the open houses we do have signin sheets so um we have kind of their contact information to understand who came to the open houses and then the surveys um we also have some of that type of data as well but
did you keep any record of overlapping we we tend to have the same people come to the meetings yeah uh we did see a lot of um similar faces between the open houses and um the focus groups and people that listened in the focus groups
just as a um kind of outside listener so we did get to see some similar faces but we also saw different groups um throughout uh the process as well so it was nice to see some repeat faces to see the investment in the process in the project that's great okay go ahead
please uh I do have a question go ahead or clarification and who chose the focus group um there was some feedback from the commission um in terms of the focus group selection um and then we move
forward with that group as well same I had zero input on who were the folks in the focus group actually that was a conversation and I specifically uh make that comment before that we should be
the ones selecting or at least proposing the people who was going to be part of the focus group and I cannot talk on behalf of everybody else but I was completely keeping out of it so I don't know how I I I know that um people could
sign up to be a volunteer I believe uh however who decided who were going to be that focus group and I can talk on behalf of myself I had no input into it can you CL can you just remind everyone how the group was selected sure so we opened up an application online for
anyone that was interested to volunteer on the focus group um of that I I forget how many applicants we had exactly but it was about 20 to 25 does that sound accurate and then from there um we made suggestions to the Commission in a memo
as to who to serve on the focus group and who to be alternate um focus group members and so that was sent through the city manager's office there was an email and a memo to the commission did not see that yes we did have it it was quite a while ago so you
probably don't remember um okay I don't miss too many things please go ahead okay thank you so um we'll go ahead into moving into the next portion of the discussion um of course a lot of the discussion um that we're having today is
setting us up for uh actually writing and establishing the vision document which again is going to be be the foundation for those comprehensive plan and Land Development regulation amendments it's largely going to be a graphic based uh document with different combinations of imagery and diagrams and
focused on um the public realm features meaning the streets the Open Spaces massing um some setbacks and then Hardscape and Landscape features um and then that will really set the foundation to come in with um the more text based
component which would be again the ensive plan and the Land Development regulations one one second commissioner Joseph let let her finish we're going to go in order go ahead um so you just write it down just as a a final slide here before we move into the next section um to give you an idea of the
timing and the process of course here we're today we're talking about um the vision document this Our Town Center North workshop for that Vision document and then the next steps through the spring and summer would be to draft the vision document and bring that back to you for approval by solution and then we
can move into um the comprehensive plan and ldr text amendments um to implement the vision document so did you have a question before we move into the next section thank you so earlier you mentioned bonuses now bonuses are not a given
correct correct yes but you made it seem as though you uh speaking regarding uh reconstruction let's say of Epicure so bonuses are not a guarantee that's correct okay I wanted to clarify that
also when you were speaking to these focus groups was anyone not concerned about additional traffic no traffic of course was a a very big component that's the a desire to keep the scale smaller okay and was anyone interested in seeing
another building like Aurora on Collins I think the overall consensus from the focus group was to keep the height away from Collins so if there's necessary Building height that it would be concentrated more towards the center towards the uh West Side of Town Center
North but to keep the scale along Colin specifically smaller scale right so basically Aurora was a tremendous error that we don't want to repeat is it was that basically what you heard from people um I don't know that we specifically spoke about Aurora but
generally the consensus was to keep the height lower scale along Collins okay thank you okay so we're going to move into the next um section of our workshop and presentation so just as a reminder this is going to be split into two parts and
that'll um constitute the remainder of our um time with you today so um the first portion that we're going to focus on is kind of the shorter term um Redevelopment opportunities that are presented in Town Center North that
are largely based on the public um in put that we heard through the public engagement sessions as it relates to the existing conditions with the commercial plaes specifically um and obviously our primary goal is to establish the long-term Vision plan through the vision
documents that's your 2030 40y year Vision document uh but we also need to recognize the reality that the Redevelopment to the scale that we're talking about um which is really knock down tear down Redevelopment might not happen in the short term because of um
some unique circumstances in Town Center North being uh the mix of under and overdeveloped properties as well as the ownership patterns right of course there's the rcade commercial plazas that constitute a large portion um of town center North and like I mentioned earlier we haven't heard that there's a
large desire um from their team to redevelop in the near term um but there are some um significant concerns from the public with uh some of the existing conditions found in those centers also the fact that there's a large number of condo properties meaning you have a lot
of individual property owners that would need to be um the properties would need to be aggregated and then sold and then redeveloped right so that creates some total Redevelopment challenges and then you do have newer residential towers that are you less likely to redevelop
because they're newer um so the first piece that we're going to talk about is the shorter term Redevelopment potential um especially as it relates to Again The RK centers and it all starts with getting excited about solving a parking problem um so this is a key opportunity
um that kind of opens the door for other improvements within the RK centers and really snowballs into the shorter term Redevelopment potential and even you know just improving the conditions if they did kind of generally remain the same for the next 10 20 years there's a
lot that can be done without tearing the centers down and rebuilding um so the the first key thing to focus and hone in on is parking and circulation which was um one of the main concerns from the residents when they go to these centers it's really hard to park there's not
enough parking they're getting towed um so there's a lot of opportunity with the surface lots to address um enhanced parking and revised circulation patterns right so when you look at the centers um and I'll show you on a slide um coming
up here there's largely um two main surface lots that serve the RC centers the North and the South centers um and again it's very tight to get in it's hard to find spaces and then we obviously have a lot of uh the public residents that are parking there using
it for Beach parking and getting towed um the surface area of the surface Lots constitutes a large portion of these Parcels that could be better served um for some other purpose you know we heard a lot about improved um open spaces and outdoor dining and things like that um
that could dovetail off of better utilizing that surface parking area um through parking structure and the like um so by solving the parking problem which we're going to get into um we can also address things that were also
mentioned by the public being the Aesthetics of the centers creating that pedestrian environment um providing for more and better outdoor dining experiences adding some landscape and um addressing the drainage so again by addressing this these short-term issues
you're setting yourself up um to really set the stage for long-term Redevelopment potential um simply by starting with addressing the parking but let me ask you property commissioner Joseph commissioner Joseph let's do this orderly let her finish and
then we'll go in order private property understood and we're we're working into this exactly right um so we're going to get to that in just a just a second commissioner so again the the existing conditions are shown on on the map here this is one of the more recent um plans that show again the two um surface Lots
there were previous Park variances granted that again contribute to some of the existing challenges and parking shortages that are out there um creating some of the visitor frustration when they go to the centers and they can't find spaces folks are getting towed again and it also from the um Arc Center
does limit the types of tenants in the tenant mix that they can have because they have to work within the confines of The Limited number of parking spaces that are there you can't have all high generating parking demand um uses like the restaurants and things like that you have to also have a mix of some lower
generating uses that don't um contribute to your parking requirements as much which maybe isn't as favorable um for the types of things that they might want they might be missing out on some tenants because they simply don't have the parking um in the existing centers so what does that mean um for
the city There's an opportunity to partner uh with the RK team on Parking Solutions right and what we mean by that is is um partnering on structured parking um there's a large amount of land that could easily accommodate a
structured garage and again that opens up land um to accommodate other features that are highly desired Again by the residents input the Landscaping the plaza spaces the outdoor dining um create some uh additional infill at the
same scale that would create the interior streets so when we're talking about the benefits for the proper owner and the city moving into some sort of partnership on this parking solution you know of course the property owner there's a whole host of potential benefits whether that's again freeing up
land with the surface parking by creating a structured garage um it gives them greater flexibility um in their tenant mix and they could also generate some Revenue um with a pay for parking structure um and also if you overbuild
the garage you're setting yourself up for future Redevelopment by not having to build maybe another garage or another garage as large if you provide some Extra Spaces in in an initial garage and of course just a better customer environment and less frustration when people are coming to your centers from
the city's side of course um we'd be potentially obtaining dedicated City spaces for Beach parking and other uses um we could look at potentially integrating a um rooftop Park um which would contribute to your Park level of service potentially um you could
potentially even create some additional facility space into the garage depending on it on how it was designed this is just like an initial um list right there's a a lot of different ways that you can approach some sort of parking partnership and solution here um especially as it relates to the design
of the parking and um the agreements that are um entered into as to how the city gets to benefit from that garage the residents of course um it would be easier to park and uh have access to the stores and shops they would be uh less Towing because there's the available
parking spaces for them to to utilize and it would allow for the centers to be beautified by again taking advantage of the space that was once taken up by the surface lots and doing something else with that that's a little bit higher and better use of the property um so what does that mean in terms of how you
partner you know there's of course monetary contributions um there's the bonus funds that have been um contributed from other projects um you could consider um reduction in permit fees or some alternative parking rates for future uses um going into uh
Redevelopment scenarios in the future and so what does that mean of course there's the parking in the rear um this is uh dimensionally very um capable of fitting a garage in the rear there in that location in the um in the
red Dash and then in the pink you could start to look at infilling and creating um additional you know one and twostory um commercial building that create these internal streets and adding some additional Plaza um space
and so when we look at the North Center you know this is the existing condition where you have um the L-shaped building and then the out parcel with surface parking you could start to take some of that surface uh parking up against the existing um outdoor dining areas or
sidewalk areas and you could use that space um for expanded patios um you could add additional building um along 170th potentially of course again to the commissioner's point this is all private property right but it just shows you
what you can do when you start to address the parking issue you can start to um create some opportunities for some uh better uh designed centers that speak to some of the residents concerns where they're looking for more space as it
relates to Hardscape and landscaped areas um you could even uh add another little parklet there along Collins Avenue same on the south where the you kind of have the curved building um right now you largely have a large
surface lot that directly ABS Collins and one out parcel there or one out building you could start to infill and create um an additional uh Plaza area with this one or two story structure and significant landscape and um you know
features like water fountains and things like that but significantly you're taking um rows of parking and expanding the patio space for um some more pedestrian amenities so what does that look like um you know there's a lot of different opportunities you know again
it is private property and so you know to a large scale it's going to be driven by the the property owners but just to and to help you get excited about solving a parking problem right this is the opportunities that you can create when you start to take surface parking you put it in a structured garage and
then you can use these spaces for better environment within the centers and so these are the types of imagery that capture kind of what the focus groups in the um public Outreach was really driving um in terms of a a Redevelopment Vision scenario right so a lot of Plaza
space um places to sit places to hang out green spaces you could have a second story um Terrace area with outdoor dining a lot more space to integrate landscaping and so you just open up the
opportunities um on that property by addressing the parking problem while also ensuring that the city gets some benefits out of it in terms of the additional spaces um and some other incentives that you know you could continue to work on and this is the
South um Plaza here so same type of thing just by um structuring the parking to the north there's I think with this Center just given the location of the parking structure you'd want to probably maintain a lot of the surface parking here because it's not so not as close um
but there's still opportunities to expand um some of the patio space there by having a a parking garage that serves the northern centers and some of these areas could use ballet and use that garage and then you have opportunities for much more um comfortable and
enjoyable spaces as a visitor of course the parking garage um itself there's a lot of different design opportunities you've seen um probably some really neat parking garages um as you drive around and visit different places there's all sorts of different
design options for parking garages now the idea being that you're going to focus on screening it from the residential area um to the West um but there's there's all sorts of design techniques um for the parking garage design right and then the rooftop like I said you could activate the rooftop and
um create some more park space and some green space again that was what we heard um as one of the major desires out of the the uh public engagement process all right so all by starting by to address the parking and circulation concerns by
providing for structured partnering and engaging in some sort of um incentive with RK uh Team to build the structured garage then you snowball into addressing these other issues um that were the main takeaways from the the public concerns
with the existing conditions being the Aesthetics The Pedestrian environment outdoor dining the landscaping and the drainage issues um so at this point mayor i' like to pause and U ask you for some direction on this issue and the request
would be for direction authorize the city manager and staff to further analyze uh potential Parking Solutions and Partnerships um and potential incentive opportunities and then uh bring those Alternatives back to the commission for presentation and further discussion okay before I open it back up
um um the floor to the commission I have a question regarding the number of parking spaces how many are there now um You have about a thousand or so between the North and the South um I think there was some restriping that occurred and so when your suggestion as
far as a parking garage um in the back of um or really a Json 2 myms that would be one parking garage to service both plazas so the parking garage um idea would largely be for the North Plaza so
the L shape and then the half circle and then I think the one to the South you'd probably keep a lot of the surface lot just because it's a little further away from that garage but it could serve some of the parking needs there and what is the allowable height right now if the
parking if let's just say the um cats plazas decided they wanted to go ahead and move ahead with this um it goes back to the very tricky height diagram any I don't know right no I know you don't have to answer it this moment but I guess that would be part of your um you know analyzing as far as
working back with staff okay I'm G to open it back up it does get pretty substantial back in that commissioner Joseph would you like to ask questions Park how many it was just north of 450 spaces so I want to say 460 480 okay so is that a
number I'm asking um is that a number that uh you were considering would be helpful I think that you want to really take the next step and get into that I don't think it'd be appropriate for us to provide a specific number but I think
you'd want to look at taking a significant amount of the surface parking in the North Center and structuring that and that frees up the space to do some of these other improvements I think like we showed you want to probably leave some of what we call convenience um parking spaces um so
that you can do kind of the F minute run in and grab your lunch and run out without having to go into the garage but it' be a much reduced number so I think in the north you have about 600 um spaces and you have about another 400 in the South um based on the plans that we
saw so I think You' you'd want to look at structuring a large number of the 600 so the aqualina is what how how many stories do you mean the garage the garage eight eight stories and 460 spots
yes and then we were talking about maybe not having the garage be all parking maybe having one floor internal some you know workout or something or yeah I mean
there there's a endless potential right on that design because it's kind of raw land in the back um the difference being that uh I'm not sure dimensionally how large the other property you're talking about is where they had the 450 spaces we have the lady here to answer in the
in the rear um currently in that area behind the kind of half circle building you have just over 200 spaces just on the surface level so obviously the design of um the parking garage and accounting for some setbacks if you just
kind of use that as your base per level of how many parking spaces if you kind of built out that whole PAD as a parking garage perel level you might get you know a pretty good amount of parking spaces and be able to keep the height lower just because you have a pretty
large pad to work with in terms of each individual floor area whereas if it's on a tighter um site obviously you have to go higher to get the same number of spaces so that's one benefit of this site is that it's a pretty large area in the rear of the
buildings so to me the uh the garage with the uh working together with RK and the city uh sounds like something that might be a a very reasonable option commissioner ston
nothing commission viscara so two things um I don't think um the city properly has properly handled
development and parking needs and that's why we have certain problems now so you can't go wrong with additional parking I feel parking is always good whether it's for visitors or um people always asking
us can oh can I park my extra vehicle the condos don't have room so there's there's parking is always good so I I think um and that's something that I noticed in in my visit to the a couple of locations they seem to be organized
around parking like they figured it out they figured out something that that we didn't right that um and it's and it made a lot of sense like guess as a visitor going in and having available parking Etc thought I think that's good
so um I also liked your um I think you captured the what residents would like to see the low um you know this is what this looks like it's a two maybe three stories of of
commercial it's it's it's beautiful but obviously you need to park somewhere and that would be in the back so I would bring to your attention and I don't remember the details but I know that we looked at uh something about a
garage was going to be close to Plaza of the Americas we talked about possible um City spaces and there was something and and that's before I was elected so sometime before 2018 I can't give you an
exact year and I and it fell apart I don't remember why but there there were issues around that so um I would um advise you to look into what happened because I don't I don't recall why it fell apart but it did obviously it's not
there great yes was that a city project or part of a private development project I don't remember the D details I I do know that it failed you remember it was it it was a recommendation that was put together um that looked really nice I
remember and that included all of these elements but I think it was more of a recommendation I remember there was something specifically wrong that the city manager from Plaza of the Americas caught and that that's
why it fell apart but I don't remember what it was okay good let her finish are you done commissioner okay vice mayor go ahead yeah um so first I'd like to understand the context of going into a partnership or giving
you know uh RK some incentives to building the parking lot um would this be a first step to more steps where RK commits to redeveloping his retail spaces I think
there's a lot of opportunities here right so this is kind of setting the stage to take a further look at um what all the city could get out of the partnership deal whether that's uh certain number of Beach parking spaces or um other facility space in the garage
um but there's there's a lot of different ways to kind of structure a potential partnership to your point um requiring some other commitment in terms of improvements that they're going to make in the area that's freed up by removing the part the surface parking
and relocating it to the garage okay yeah because I mean if we're going to be involved in that with our K obviously we would like to see you know the modeling that you showed us for what you know the uh residents would like to see there I
mean it's excellent so I think you know the whole city wants to see something like that uh obviously it it entails a lot of capital expenditure from rkade and I'm wondering if there could be some guarantees from from the the
property owner you know if we're going to get into a partnership and incentives Etc I don't know if the city's going to have to ex uh spend some money on that but definitely it needs to be a partnership
where we we see it come to full fruition uh and have a commitment from from the property owner um and what else and I think that that's what I'd like to understand I think it's great I mean we need more parking going
into those shopping centers those shopping strip malls if you want to call them uh is very difficult and uh yeah we definitely need an improvement on on that but yeah if this could be the first step and we could get some guarantees
and commitments from from RK and whoever else uh is involved um we're all for it yeah I'm for it great thank you um so some of the things that I think need to be considered um well first question in
discussions with the property owner were they open to a parking garage did you have that discussion yet with them or no we very conceptually um talked about a parking garage at some point um but we didn't go into too much detail um
because at that point and this was a while back um I they were maybe in a different different um thought process about Redevelopment in the centers and um you that may have changed more so um you know kind of in the
last recent couple weeks or months um but I think that this opportunity is something that you know solving a parking problem is something that any property owner especially a commercial property owner um is gonna probably be
interested in okay and then um go ahead I just wanted to if I can interject and and kind of summarize right now I think we're dealing with two different issues one what we're looking at is kind of the overall vision from you going forward
that we can incorporate into our zoning so yes RK is the property owner that that we deal we're dealing with but it wouldn't be specifically uh a separate issue would be some sort of public private partnership
with RK so we wouldn't get into that specific regarding this meeting this meeting is I think the overarching concept has been parking is one of the main concerns that's a feedback that we've had so what we've
talked about internally would be going forward if it's the commission's directive that we sum we in some way incentivize the zoning as we rework this
plan that would encourage whomever the property owner is to invest in and develop a garage that that would be the approach in my discussions with the city attorney we also have to be careful that we
cannot use public funds in a private partnership doesn't mean that we can't do you want to clarify well you can but to to your point there are two issues here one we're dealing with some zoning changes that are prospective you're looking 20 30 40 years down the
line so there's a visioning aspect of it that is important regardless of who owns the property with regards to changes or more immediate changes or Solutions with this particular property owner um we have to be careful because
it would have to be some sort of public private partnership probably statutory and you do have limitations although money can be used there's ownership issues because it is private property so um it it's it's complex it's doable but it's complex as to what you can or
cannot do with regards to that um so we it's not just a matter of going to RK and saying hey are you interested and let's just have some guarantees it's not just a simple agreement there is a process you have to go through uh but it's it's certainly doable but it it
really is all up to the private property owner uh to be willing to do that right no I understand I think that um I think we all understand that it's not going to be something that's going to be easy my my question was um I don't want to give them direction if it's a pie in the sky
kind of thing so that's what I want to see a clarification on is you know as long as you you hear that we all are in uh agreement that parking is important and before um Mr city manager one second I know you want to say something currently the parking spaces that they
have if they were to redevelop assuming there's no garage um are they now in in um compliance with the amount of parking spaces they have Amy I know you may not be ready for this question so that could be something for later they the last time they received a
parking variance was in 1998 and every time we receive a business license application we have to analyze the parking to make sure that they're still within the um variance that was provided in 1998 so they're still deficient in park
working for the code standards they are deficient okay so if they were to redevelop let's just say they knock the whole thing down going to make all new um stores and restaurants they would they would still need to um regardless if they got a garage or not a garage
they would still need to uh have more parking it depends on how they're redeveloping and what the program well okay let me change the way I'm asking the question based on what they have now how many parking spaces are they short that's the I know that not right now if you can get back to to us on that I I
that's just something I would be interested in knowing okay um Mr city manager you want to say something yeah I was just going to say going forward so what we need to know is and I think we have consensus but I'll wait to hear the rest of your discussion from the
commission what incentives would you like for us to incorporate in this zoning so that any of the property owners in this town center District would be interested in accessing for
maximum use of their property because if if we don't have that then that seems to be the main concern I think we would probably want you to come back to us with different options as far as what
incentives are best practices what's even allowed by law um right so yeah we we would have to I mean I don't know to what extent they want some general direction but again on the two fronts one with regards to
prospective changes to your code that would potentially incentivize future land owners or current land owners uh certainly it's something you know we probably should come back to you with with regards to what's possible right what's as best practice and so on and so forth and with regards to any
potential opportunities with the p the current property owner we'd have to decide sort of what direction we want it to take as a city because the requests there's some formality to the request so if we are truly looking at a P3 there
are formalities excuse me as to how we would actually request that and put that together so we'd have to decide that as well okay so I think what we're looking for today is uh the commission's um Vision that we can direct Jeff and
Caitlyn to go back in and put some sort of document together that we can bring back to you that incorporates what you're telling us today so the the different things that you've mentioned you know the the various height challenges and the parking we know
parking is one of the number one issues that we're we want to bring back to you okay um does anyone have anything else to add commissioner vcar well in terms of well I don't want to go into the incentives but I think there's multiple things that we need to
address but I'll I'll wait until we have recommendations right but certainly parking is one of them um and the um I and I guess like one we it would I would want uniformity across
the just uniformity and then not have the different uh requirements when know when we ask a question it shouldn't we shouldn't have different uh requirements at this corner than at that corner right so um I think
that would simplify life going forward also um uh vice mayor go ahead yeah um I would just like to see what incentives um you know you come back with and also I I would like to see
uniformity and um be mindful of you know we're talking about parking structures you know be mindful of how how big those parking structures are as well I think we all once this uh parking structure for aqualina was built
I think it was a little bit of a of a shock to to all of us um you know even though it's you know eight eight stories whatever it is you know we need to be mindful that it it's done correctly so it does not feel like you have like a
huge Lego piece there and it's overwhelming okay yeah commissioner ston yeah and so my only question is to get these uh opportunities or alternative we need to continue uh spending in Consultants do we have that budget for
and until when we're going to be with this yes we have it budgeted and this as we explained when we started this is a very um significant investment we're trying to change our zoning code from
all of the challenges that we've had over the the past 25 years and procedurally and legally it's necessary for us to go through this process because at the end of the day we are affecting our property owners property
rights so this is one of the many steps that we need to go through and we have another Workshop scheduled for Friday in order to clarify and get clear direction from you how to go forward in the future
so yes it is absolutely necessary and it's also necessary that we have experts on board should there ever be a challenge that can support the changes that you want to make so my question again is because we want to change or because we want to be in
compliance because we have issues right now with our comp and whatever so this is specific is because we are trying to get a magic solution for parking or is because we are not in compliance because I think we are mixing two things there there's there's really almost three
issues here so you are dealing with a compliance issue on the east side okay so we're rectifying issues with your comp plan and your code with regards to the east side um on the west side you're looking at changing your code to effectuate the commission's
vision to make any changes you deem prudent with regards to Future development heard a lot about height you know intensity density and those types of things so those are things you're looking at the parking situation certainly is something you want to look at but I think you need to separate that
that's something separate that may be workable with current property owners and so on and so forth but I think and and Amy can correct me but the the Crux of what we're trying to do because you are in a zoning in progress that's been around for some time now so we're
getting close to the Finish Line they they can't last forever so um to the extent you want make changes to your code to effectuate some changes to development on the west side we need to kind of square that away as to what those changes may or may not be so we
can actually codify those and get those going and then we can look at parking as a future solution you know through the Avenues that have been discussed I still sorry any clarification okay so again do we need
to make these changes because we are not in we need to or we want to because twice you guys said we want to make changes so that's what I want to be very specific that we have to make this code
changes because we have to or we want to because we see the issue with the parking because it's two different things and because our vision because remember we are all here temporary so the vision of this commission today
might be very different of the vision of the commission tomorrow or that it was yesterday so my point is that we are making changes because we want to make our vision in perpet for the future or because we have to make the
change that's what I want to have the clarification because if we are doing this because we want to that is totally different okay if we are doing this what we have to is different as well so that's the the part because um there is a alliances going on especially with
politicians behind the scenes and I just want to make sure that we are not doing this just to pay back to the polit to the to the people that was banking certain politicians so that's what I want to have very very very clear that
we have to make these code changes because we are not complying with the law and not because we want to again put in perpetuity whatever it is that we have the vision of right now and keep it and make it part of our code so I
apologize I didn't answer your question the first time um on the east side you have to okay because your buildings are out of compliance with regards to the comp plan so you need to rectify that and make him compliant on the west side it's if you want to you don't have to change anything if you don't want to but
if you're concerned about height and you're concerned about intensity and density the way that it's currently framed in your code and what's permitted and not permitted epicur is any example you know those types of things and those are things that you may want to change
but you don't necessarily have to so on the west side it's to prevent well on the west side it's it's to basically again you are you know you're the stewards of development essentially and your code so if you want to make changes
this is the time to do it based on the feedback we've gotten through the entire process plus what you envision the West to look like um on the east side to your to your question commissioner we have to do that the East is definitely something we have to do on the west it's it's sort
of a vision that you may or may not have Amy go ahead thank you so in the Town Center area this was Town Center South and Town Center North there is a discrepancy between the comprehensive plan and the zoning code the comprehensive plan restricts development
whereas the zoning code allows greater development and with that inconsistency Redevelopment is not being um catalyzed right now it's not that's why there isn't Redevelopment occurring because if we were to get a site plan they would be restricted to what's in the
comprehensive plan so that's why we're going through this exercise because you can't fix the regulations without a vision so we're here to make sure we understand the commission's vision the residents and the property owners tie that together in a vision document and
then come back with the comp plan policy and code amendments to support it so that's why we're here today okay and I I do believe it is necessary because the property owners can't move forward with Redevelopment at this time go ahead so
for me I'm interested in uniformity as uh commissioner vascara mentioned and also I have a question regarding this um birthday cake um idea of construction is that memorialized or is that
something we can change readily so um it is currently codified it's in your Land Development regulations in terms of different street treatments and locations and the heights that are allowed along those different streets but it's certainly something that we would look at and potentially
amend given um your direction yes so that's something for me that I would absolutely like to amend understood okay um just one more comment and then I think you probably have enough from us do you yeah it sounds like there's consensus to at
least take the next step and really diving into the analysis and um to your city attorney's Point looking at what legal Avenues you have and the legal requirements to you potentially um explore and the different incentives um
that we could potentially bring back and I think this is really just setting the stage for the next exploratory stage is really diving into all of your options okay and so just one last comment that I had you had um stated uh convenience parking I don't know how many of those
restaurants now uh rely on um you know the Uber Eats or whatever that is so that obviously is something to consider um and I know you're not redesigning the you know but it's more of a vision uh one of the challenges in the past and Amy correct me if I'm wrong was the
flooding in the parking so I don't know what that looks like when you try to put seating outdoor seating where um you know historically that area has flooded and what kind of uh investment that requires yeah I don't know if that was ever brought to your attention yes
drainage was definitely um something that was brought to US during the focus groups and some of the open houses and so hopefully when you're um talking about making some major Investments through structured parking in the rear and then you're looking at different opportunities in the areas that's then
opened up by relocating the surface uh the surface parking you would definitely have opportunities to look look at um solving some of the drainage issues so that that's definitely on our radar all right so um can you just tie this all up together for us and um yeah
um it it sounds like uh we have the direction the request for direction was to authorize the city manager and staff to further analyze the potential Parking Solutions and partnership or incentive opportunities and then bring back to you those potential alternatives for further review and discussion so again you not
really making too many decisions at this point and just letting staff um take the next step into exploring what those potentials are okay great um like mention please go ahead okay we were talking about Beach parking but Beach
parking in Sunny Isles is really not for anyone that lives in sunny is the visitors so and I know we have a problem now on 174th Street I've had many residents froms calling me asking that
be some type of permit set up or something in the windshield or stickers on the cars all of their spaces are being that you know because the garages a lot of the garages are being worked on we have theond stre
parking and beach goers are taking away resident spots so we need to do something some type of system whatever you know not to a large LGE degree but some type of system where code
enforcement can go around and know that these cars that are park there are beachgoers rather than residents okay all right okay so um we're get into the last part of our uh discussion here which um just wait for
the presentation to queue up again so this will wrap up our time with you today this is uh going to be the segment where we talk about um the different Benchmark locations that we shared with you um for review whether you were able to um go to these places
in person or have been to them or if you were able to look around on Google Maps um we provided five different locations um these were provided to you based on previous discussions um with the commission and we also just wanted to
provide a variety of different locations so whether that's a variety in scale or the character um you know not any one of these places got it right and our intent isn't to copy and paste those places into town center North right but we wanted to have some common ground to
discuss different features and aspects um of these locations that you like or didn't like that maybe are appropriate or inappropriate for Town Center North just so we all are working kind of from the same information and we can talk about the same types of things so again not no one of these is perfect and
certainly the intent is not to copy and paste this into town center North but to just give us some common ground to talk about um different projects and possibilities here um so we did provide a little questionnaire just to kind of give you some prompts and questions to think about we didn't ask that you you
know fill those out and give those to us but um hopefully you had a chance to take a look at some of these places um if you didn't I'm just going to go through a quick couple slides and then we're going to open it up for some discussion on different types of features and aspects and we'll you know
talk about that topic specifically and then we'll close it and then we'll talk about a new topic and we'll try to stay very focused on the topic at hand because we're going to talk about uh five or six different topics and don't want to keep you here all day right so the first location um that we asked you to visit again either virtually or in
person was downtown Dural um I know we talked about that um in this meeting a little bit already but um this is definitely a new work City Center it's a true City Center that has a wide range of um different uses and U really is kind of an entertainment District
there's some um large towers set back on podiums so at the ground level when you're walking down the main streets that there's just a single story retail environment and it's kind of hard to tell that there's Towers pushed further back um but there are some uh larger uh
greater intensity uses surrounding the area um there's a quite a large um Park area um there's the government center and um other um entertainment and non-residential uses there's the public school there's
grocery stores there's office and medical space right so certainly the scale is a lot larger uh when you start to look at especially the peripheral areas of the downtown as opposed to just the main um North and South Street in that four block area um but they've done
a pretty good job at um hiding the towers especially on again that main street that runs east west north south in the four blocks there um so there's some pretty good design aspects to talk about as it relates to downtown Dural and here's some imagery from um those
main streets and you can see those Towers push back and you really don't feel them at the ground level because of how they've designed the podium to be just a single story again this is a place um we talked about easy parking if you've been to downtown Dural it's really easy to find a spot get in the
garage um even park on the street for some of the convenience parking and they do have a pretty wide range of um entertainment and restaurant uses here and they cater to the night life a little bit here with some of their um
restaurants and um entertainment uses and then the next was Park Square in Aventura I like to think of this as kind of a small But Mighty Neighborhood Center um geographically it's pretty small but they pack a lot into this area
um as opposed to Dural it's definitely more of a neighborhood serving area area um as opposed to more of a regional you know City Center here uh but they have a wide range of uses including an assisted living um facility they've got office space some high-end Fitness residential
and a hotel so um they get a a lot out of this little area and uh here's some pictures at the ground level just as a reminder as we get into the discussion so um definitely more contemporary City place up in West Palm
Beach is kind of the quintessential City Center um in the south Florida area if you've been recently they've spent a lot of money and effort um redesigning the facades to make it more modern you before it was a lot of the pinks and oranges in the 9s um and now it's uh much different
looking they did a beautiful job renovating but um what is that about eight stories I'm sorry that's about eight stories I think if I remember um the core of City Place tends to be about three stories and less but um to that point with the Redevelopment especially on the edges they're getting a lot more
of the podium Towers so it's a little smaller at the ground level and then some pretty tall towers um around the the edges of the city place so of course um some kind of unique features in City Place just that it's around the
old church there in that pedestrian only um kind of loop in the center and they've also created a new pedestrian only Street um for for the large majority of times that you visit so they continue to push the The Pedestrian friendly atmosphere in City Place um
trying to make it easier and easier for the pedestrians um again another place where they have a large number of structured garage opportunities it's usually pretty easy to park and if you go there now there's all the construction so it's maybe a little bit harder than typical or what it will be in the
future um and then the Town Center in Miramar is a little bit different this is a again a very small four block um Town Center that is anchored by their government center um so you'll see the axis there that terminates into um City
Hall along the lake there um this is kind of a long awaited project they put a lot of time in effort into um gearing up for this Redevelopment and this Vision that they had and it's pretty much built out now they've wrapped up the construction of um their newest building along Red Road
there um it's largely a a smaller scale and they have about you know four stories and less on most of the buildings but there are some um larger buildings especially the newer one I think goes up to about eight stories um so you can see some of the imagery here and some of the taller buildings in the
top left that have been recently built um they have a different mix of um some restaurants it's definitely more local serving you I don't think people are coming to this area necessarily from a a big Regional draw perspective um but
it's a great spot for people to come for lunch and um live and work in the area and then downtown Dand is definitely one of the um older uh options that we asked you to visit and take a look at the interesting piece here is that they have the below grade parking um so there's
underground parking in the Dand um downtown area you know this it's very Urban there's not uh much Green Space to speak of but uh they do have a range of scale um uses there you it goes up to
you know kind of the midrise and then down to three stories with the residential in certain areas so um they definitely have a a good variety of restaurants it's pretty restaurant heavy here and so here's some of the images um of downtown Dand so as we move into the
back and forth discussion here about you know what you like and didn't like and what works and doesn't work um just keep in mind for Town Center North specifically in the your vision of the Redevelopment scenario where more so uh you know the knockdown tear down Redevelopment Vision as opposed to what we talked about earlier which was
solving some um smaller pieces and looking for infill opportunities and more of the beautification this is really the 20 30 year uh Redevelopment scenario where you know everything's a clean slate and there's maybe a total Redevelopment of the area right so what
does that look like and feel like what's the overall character um what can you do when you visit Town Center North and why are people coming to Town Center North right the original Vision was that economic Hub where it was an international destination right and we've heard that that's um likely
changed both from this commission and from the residents so again the residents really enjoy the fact that it's a neighborhood serving um center now and that they can do some of their daily shopping so um and then Who's Coming to Town Center North again is it
more of the local residents is it serving our um immediate resident population or is it more of that Regional draw and then of course you know keeping in the back of our minds the commercial plaes and the residential neighborhood and the distinction and division um between the two and then the fact that renovation opportunities
ultimately lead for redevelopment opportunities by better utilizing some of the the land in the area in these centers in the um Town Center North overall so the first topic we're going to talk about um overall character we're going to talk about um scale and massing
um we're going to talk about um the mix of usage is Street Network and parking um open spaces and public realm features so those are the types of topics we're going to talk about so again we're going to try to keep it focused on the topic at hand and then we're going to get into
those other um topics later as we continue our discussion um so we'll open it up for discussion on the overall character so like the look and feel um for each of the individual places and we'll look to the commission to just
give us some feedback on um on their thoughts of each of the different locations or if they just had a favorite or a least favorite or anything that you'd like to share with us about overall character okay commissioner ston you want to start no none commissioner Joseph I'm
actually I'm waiting to hear from you miss mayor um you haven't given your okay so um I'm familiar with some of the sites and I visited um a couple also because I wanted to look at
them through the lens of of this homework assignment right um the where where are we overall character I so I actually I like the Renditions you gave us I think that that
that captured um what we could be better than the examples that we saw um I think the closest to to what uh Sunny is could look like would
be the uh the Aventura site um but I don't like it I think um it's it feel it's very cramped you say it packs a lot of punch right like it's uh but for me I find that very overwhelming it's very tight if I feel very claustrophobic
about it but comparing it to the other sites where you're working with a lot more space and there um as much as I enjoy them I thought that they probably weren't very it's hard for me to go to
Miramar I had lunch there and and I I liked I liked how quiet it was how separate it was from the the main traffic um the the you know that this it felt like a campus actually and that
it's um anchored around government uh and this massive garage which was free parking and so I like those features it it was very welcoming I just don't know how um realistic
um a vision that is for us I think um a more realistic vision is probably Aventura but it's so crammed I I so if there could be a middle ground yeah um and also I'm like
the worst person to ask in terms of space issues so um I have a very difficult time envisioning it um through these different examples um but I I liked the the peaceful part of being which I did not
get an aventur of an amateur you walk in you don't know what garage to go into and and it's very tight and people are parked where they're not supposed to be and it's for me it was a very stressful effort um let me see I think in terms of
character that that um I I didn't get the feeling of the openness and that you mentioned something like there's plazas or whatever in the Aventura piece like I I I that didn't come through for me but I
did like it in um in Dural and in Maramar okay um that but again they're just working with different pieces so I I like the sense of openness even even if you're surrounded by the the shorter
buildings um and the quiet and the being separated from traffic great thank you for that okay vice mayor yeah I I particularly like downtown Dural I think they've done a good job um the challenge for us will be
we don't have that type of space m but having said that I think think that and based on the on some of the mocks you showed us it it's got to be a mix of perhaps downtown Dale Town Center
with with a Park Square the issue I have with Aventura Park Square is that it is not a relaxing um experience at all it it feels like the parking then you know there's cars trying to get in there and
they're waiting on the sides and then you're trying to get down and it's feels a little bit too crammed and we need to be very careful not to fall into that trap and I know that we're looking at
incentives to you know some of these developers so they developed this but I want to be able to improve upon what we have and not get into a situation where
we we develop and then the final product is something that perhaps is not what we had in mind um that includes the density and intensity so we need to be very careful it needs to be What the residents had
stated it needs to be a caling and uh very neighborly experience so given the space that we have we need to see how we could accomplish that great thank you okay did you want to add
anything no Joseph no no um yeah for me I the same thing as commissioner mcar and vice mayor said it would be great if we had the space um but we don't um and
a lot of this is driven by you know what is it that the property owner wants and and the kind of businesses that are going to be um attracted by this because at the end of the day they're there to make money so um
and I would like to to see something very similar to Park Square only because it feels like there's a lot you can do and I agree it's not necessarily calming um but it allows for um you know optimal
use of the space um the you know the idea I think a lot of this just really revolves around the parking mhm the parking you know once we you can sort of get the parking right everything else Falls in place um yeah I wish we had more space all
right go ahead okay thank you so good good discussion yes yes so actually um Park Square I'm not really happy with the height seems to be too much for me and too um
to Canine it um I would like to see some type of um if if the uh plazas were to be redeveloped um a two or three story maximum uh some type of inside
out environment um so that you're you feel like you're off Collins Avenue really off Collins Avenue however that might be able to be done but I think that would be um a
scenario that residents would be quite happy with okay thank you go ahead okay so the next topic is the mix of uses that are available in each of the centers obviously some had a greater variety of uses some were really kind of
just residential in some retail some um had less of the the residential components um obviously some even had you know the government components and um supermarkets and um the hotel and Al so there there were some that had a
broader range of intensity um in terms of the types of uses and some that were more just you know some smaller scale restaurants and some residential so if there was uh one that you particularly liked or didn't like or combinations of the two as it relates to the types of
things you could do and see when you went there that' be the next topic okay commissioner Joseph like the best well for me I think we we still have um on the east side we have a couple of lots if
not three lots but and then we have other buildings that are going up St reges Bentley uh so we're going to have a lot more people in our city than we have currently and then with other ideas that are out there that um we need to
Cur but in any event um I can't see having any residential in our current um plazas now we just can't the the
um our infrastructure cannot support um more residential housing commissioner ston vice mayor yeah I like um again downtown Dural
and um but we need to keep commercial and residential separate for sure just because we're a narrow City we don't have the streets we don't have the infrastructure commissioner viscar
yeah for this area I would I would prefer to not have mixed juice I I I like like again back to your rent rings and which is basically what we have I know that's not
necessarily what what's allowed but it's it's how it is and um if we could pre preserve that that would be better but if if um if mixed use is what we what we have to include then um I would I like
the you know there like what I like about Dural like we we really don't have great entertainment here and I think we could we could um benefit from from having more entertainment um I like the in Aventura
the um right that's the one with the rooftop with the active rooftop that's a nice feature um Palm Beach has the um pedestrian only streets so I think we need to to always keep The Pedestrian at
the at the center of our conversations uh we did not do a good job on Collins as we developed and so we need to give our pedestrians a an alternative to you know where they can like walk and be without worrying
about traffic which goes back to having like that internal space right within buildings um let's see now I really didn't have any great takeaways from D land and and um with um Mir I like the variety of
businesses that they had they had salons and they have a Crema that's coming soon so um and food and you know um but again that that one is structured more around government so I think that would be different for for these slots and I also
like their use of shade and how they um I like I forget which one it was I think it was Palm Beach but where it's not just palm trees everywhere but they use the more mature trees a variety of vegetation and in Miramar the buildings
have like the shade kind of the like they have like arches you have the you have the business and then you have like a like a covered part of the building like arches and then the open sidewalk so you have the wide sidewalks so that's another one so very wide sidewalks and
and the buil-in shade or ensuring that there's um so I like the built-in shade and and in in Maramar great yeah their arcade system is pretty nice there that's what it's called yeah the arcades and colonades yes there you go I
like that yes great okay anything else on that one okay so let's go to the scale and mass right so we talked about um some of these you see more of the single story at the ground
floor and then we call um the podium Towers or there's the podium and then the Tower so the podium being the single story or you know single two and three stories and then the tow is being pushed back away from the street so that you don't see them and feel them as much when you're um walking around the town
center some of them are you know a little bit more straight up and down and there's not kind of that push back but some of that's because they're more of the mid-rise and lowrise and they don't have the tower components like you know downtown Dural and City Place does um
you know and Dand kind of ranges from the three 3 to eight Stories the Town Center for um myar was largely three and four stories with some of the midrise um especially like I said in the the newer um buildings Park Square is kind of all midrise downtown Dural has the the
podium with the pretty large towers um and then city place at the core it's that three and four stories but there's definitely Towers uh with podiums on on the edges especially when you start to look at some of the new construction um so there some discussion about um the
overall scale and mass but also if you feel like the podium design helps um you kind of get around the concept of height because like we talked about with the commercial centers especially there's probably if you were to really um look
at the Redevelopment scenario where they're tearing things down and rebuilding you're going to need some sort of intensity and density allowance for them to justify doing that right so if the podium design helps you with the scale and mass that's something that we can certainly
incorporate so that the towers are pushed back a little bit further and The Pedestrian streets are kept at you know the one two three story um type of scale so that it feels a little bit more quaint when you're walking um through the through the town center
area so scale and mass vice mayor no no okay commissioner ston I think Dell did it amazingly so at the beginning it's very short and then in the back is a little bit higher or a lot
higher so I think they did a good job M Joseph I'm a staunch supporter of um you know no more than three stories or four stories Max in anywhere in town
center so long live the uh ran cats family and may they own these shopping centers for 100 more years okay commissioner viscar uh well I I would also prefer for
for to keep things as low as possible but again if that's not um in the cards then yes the the setback version okay the street Network and parking we talked about the ease of parking being
kind of key um a lot of these uh locations have what we call wrapped garages so the garages are hidden at the center of the building and then they have peripheral uses whether it's residential units wrapping the upper stories and retail on the ground floor some of them have Standalone garages you know up in um city place they have some
Standalone garages as well um and then the other thing to keep in mind is the grid Network right so we talked about not wanting to necessarily establish any more of a street Network or grid Network in town center that we like the kind of
east and west division and that anything going east to west should be pedestrian only in terms of additional access points um that we don't necessarily want to create additional vehicular access points meaning gritting it out like maybe the original Vision U more so contemplated right so some of these um
actually most of them have more of a traditional grid pattern some are a little bit smaller and maybe more walkable feeling others have larger um grids and block systems but um you know and then the downtown Dural or um
downtown Dand rather has the below grade parking obviously that um has its challenges but it does have its benefits as well um city place again has a lot of the wrap garages but they do have um a good amount of uh street parking just like um uh down deral does as well they
have some of that convenience parking where you can pull up in parallel park and um Town Center in myamar has that as well which is helpful for the um business owners especially you the restaurants that want to have people pop in and grab their lunch and um head out and it just makes it a little bit more
enticing to visit those places when you don't have to enter a garage every time when there's a mix of surface convenience and garage parking so if there's a type of or if there's one location in terms of when you parked your parking experience when you got there if you were able to visit them and
then just as you were walking around which streets kind of felt more comfortable to you in terms of their scale and um what it felt like just walking around or zooming around on Google that'll be the next topic okay I think we add we spoke about this but I
want to give everyone an opportunity to say anything else commissioner Joseph did you want to add anything well I just like to say that uh thank goodness that in this uh past election that we just got
through that the mayor's candidates did not win otherwise you we'd be having a totally different discussion today so the residents should be happy for that and I thank them all commissioner stavon okay vice mayor
yeah I mean regarding pedestrian traffic and the ease of The Pedestrian to to be able to walk around I think that's going to be Paramount and um you know I'm I'm just having a hard time I'm not an architect I'm not an
engineer God knows I'm not any of that but um I'm having a hard time with the space you know H how is this going to be um you know structured I would say uh I'm sure that you know there there there's a solution to that
um but yeah I mean definitely keep uh commercial on towards the front where arcade is the owner and then the back I think the back is going to re redevelop probably at a later stage um but yeah we need to keep the parking structures at a
sides and obviously have some parking structures on the surface um but yeah definitely it needs to be a common uh experience where pedestrians are at the center of
this commission VIs largely echoing what the vice mayor just said and and I guess in summary not Aventure out yeah okay short and
sweet okay and then moving in towards um open space and public realm features um open space you know there's a wide range here whether it's little parklets or plazas um or true playgrounds right so Dand
definitely as I mentioned a little bit more urban there's really not much to speak of other than um some different Planters and things like that I think they have a little fountain in the the middle there um downtown Dural obviously has quite a bit of integrated open space
and it ranges from uh kind of pedestrian pathways through the heart of the downtown to again true playgrounds and park space City Place um just revamped there kind of Heart of the City Place with um some additional kind of uh event
space and flexible seating with the lawn area it used to be um more of the The Fountain area if you were there um within the last you know five six years as opposed to within the last year they've changed that out Town Center has uh kind of the corner condition plazas
with the fountains um and outdoor dining and to the commissioner Point some of the arcades and things like that that create their open space um and then Park Square just being the fact that it's much smaller and more condensed they lean more on the little pocket plazas and some of the linear spaces there so
um quite a bit of range in terms of the types of Open Spaces that each of them have um open space was one of the key pieces from the focus groups and the um residents that they would like to see more of usable open space spaces that were comfortable and off of Colin so that they could sit and linger and enjoy
um you know just hanging out with friends or a meal great thank you uh commissioner ston yeah as much as open space as uh possible and available will be the best in my opinion commissioner
Joseph well I don't know we we have a small City the area itself uh doesn't uh lend itself um even upon Redevelopment to um you know a lot of green areas or
wasted areas um you know that that don't lend itself to restaurants or commercial other commercial uh buildings but um I think as far as uh sitting and um
meditation we have a meditation Garden that um I I want to bring up another time but uh I don't think it's being well utilized or used uh so sitting spaces I think we
need um this whole project here it's it's um it has to do with what RK will do in the future so this discussion really is what we'd like to
see I I think a lot of it is just uh we're wasting time except for the fact of uh you know the zoning parts of this but the vision is going to be the arcade's
vision in the end um commissioner visar a big fan of the Open Spaces I noticed in the the different sites that um
the use of fountains I think that's a a nice thing for us as well because we do have a lot of noise like traffic noise and I think of part again creating the calming effect that also helps um The
Fountains can help with the with the like drowning out that noise um open space makes makes um makes it more familyfriendly and um and again going
back to that neighborhood serving uh spirit I think uh it's the the the way that we should go nice mayor yeah I agree I mean uh fountains um they have a caling effect and little
plazas where people can like just sit and just shoot the breeze there have conversations with neighbors with friends so definitely yes okay and the last one um kind of ties into that the public real features so this is more of um to commissioner
vcar point the kind of ground level treatment with the arcades and colonades or um again some of the open space types of features whether there's outdoor dining right on the sidewalks um just anything that you experienced as a visitor in these locations that you
enjoyed walking past and engaging with um um that made it kind of interesting to be there you know public art all those types of things that kind of um create a sense of destination and um you know unique thumbprint on each of these locations if there was anything that
stood out that um just kind of made it memorable to experience that place yeah I'd like to start by saying um definitely um seating with shade but I think we also need to take into account
um the weather and how right now it's really nice out so it seems like a really great option but in a couple of months it will be almost impossible to sit outside so spaces that take into account um the the weather the rain the flooding the but definitely shade um is
really really important commissioner Joseph commissioner ston I like the art portions like Dalal Etc they have very nice art around and I like also the art when the kids or adults can interact with like they can
go on top of it it doesn't have to be a playground similar to what they have in the Aventura uh mall where they have like this structure like these monkeys that the kids can go up and down so it's not a playground but is meant for that so whatever our portion can be
incorporated is a is a big Plus in my opinion yes ma'am yeah for me it'll be shade art and um plants commissioner visar no I have nothing to add it's been covered okay thank
you okay all right so um with that that was uh your homework assignment so we appreciate you uh participating and taking a a look whether you were able to visit in person or online or you've already been there um this definitely helps us um understand again a little
bit better your vision and start to um look at the existing regulations that will um you maybe potentially be amended to allow us to implement this Vision along with the vision that's been set forth through the public process so just
as a reiteration here this was the um the feedback that we talked about earlier today not sure if there is any last changes as we walked through uh this discussion today if you thought of anything else that you'd like to add to this or change obviously we took notes from the first time we talked about it
but if this discussion made you think of anything else I just wanted to give you a last opportunity to say anything else in terms of the just the overall Vision anyone has anything no I I think beachy Village captures
it okay okay so um then our last slide here was um one that we presented to you uh at the previous meeting and these were uh some of the iterations or um potential options that you the
commission could choose to move forward with in terms of revising the comprehensive plan and the zoning regulations there was the first option which was keeping the current comprehensive plan standards and revising the zoning to reflect um the impact of this would be you know likely
to see limited Redevelopment based on the lower F and the uh medium to high residential in the mixed use business um and the permitted density is below the average built condition um in Town Center North currently you're more likely to see uh rehab of structures
versus total Redevelopment being the knockdown tear down Redevelopment right so um we talked about both of those scenarios today the Redevelopment being some of the infill opportunities where you're structuring parking and opening up opportunities to maybe add an extra building or two and rethink some Plaza
spaces and things like that and we also talked about the Redevelopment scenario in the back half here where we um went through some of the different um iterations with the Benchmark locations right the second option um was to keep the current zoning regulations and revise the comprehensive plan to reflect
um this would be you know the density uh is lower than the maximum density in the uh medium to high residential um which would is you know legally acceptable because the zoning could be more restrictive than the comprehensive plan but it would um potentially limit Redevelopment
um in the future accordingly uh the third option that we presented and discussed was kind of a hybrid revision where you're revising both the comprehensive plan and the zoning regulations um to implement the revised Vision that we've been talking about through these two workshops and the public engagement process um the fourth
would be to reduce the intensity and density throughout Town Center um to the maximum legal extent of course the implications of that would be potential challenges by Property Owners reduced development interest again you kind of there's a give and take there right May
mayor can I jump in I'm sorry go ahead but this goes to your question and I wanted to clarify um definitely the East we have to make corrections I use kind of a very broad stroke when I refer to the West because this does refer and um there are aspects
of town set are North that are inconsistent your code is inconsistent with the comp plan so as this correctly states you have the option of making your comp plan consistent with your code or your code consistent with your comp plan so those would be required but to
the extent of visioning or adding things or none of that that's purely something if you want to do but there are some corrections that do need to be made I wanted that to be clear I'm sorry to I'm sorry to interrupt no thank you um so on
four you reducing the intensity and density to the maximum legal possible that may be a different answer on a property by property basis um but that again would probably bring challenges by property owners and um reduce development interest would potentially
or most likely be the most publicly supported um and we've talked about um looking at a market analysis to determine some sort of minimum Redevelopment threshold so it's the minimum um intensity and density that you would need to Grant to kind of tip into the uh Redevelopment scenarios as
opposed to just um kind of the renovation process and then the last would be to increase the allowances beyond the current standard which would um probably incur more immediate Redevelopment interest um but definitely be the least publicly supported um so
with that there's there's probably sub iterations of each of those that we presented um but this is the last kind of piece that we would be looking for direction on in terms of um the vision it sounds like you know there's still Direction and desire to um probably lean
more towards the uh lesser intensity and density uh especially in the residential portions and keeping that um distinction uh with the commercial and the Residential Properties there you maybe treating the East and the West a little bit differently so um you know the the
balance will come with the commercial centers and the potential for redevelopment there you know how much the city um wants to see those completely redevelop versus just potentially renovate right because the more you restrict the density and intensity on those Parcels the more
you're going to stay in the well let's just kind of fix up what we have because it's not worth it to totally redevelop and see something completely new and uh maybe a little bit more in uh in line with some of these other true Town centers that we've seen right versus if
you um give them that density and intensity then they might be more inclined to kind of tear them down the next economic down cycle and um come up with a a brand new vision there um yeah the these are the options
that we've prepared for discussion and if there's any further direction that the commission can provide or insights that'll help us move forward with one of the um options on the screen okay commissioner viscar yeah I think I'm I'm I would be
uh if I had to vote for one of these I would uh vote for number four vice mayor yeah me too I mean you know I understand that developers need to make money but there's got to be a way where they can make
money I mean as it is our city is pretty hectic at this point you know so we need to protect the residents we need to protect the pockets of calmness that we have and I think that you know if you know again I'm not an architect I'm not
an engineer I'm not in the commercial space uh business so but there's got to be a way where we could either you know keep it the same or reduce the intensity and uh the the the density and intensity and
still be beneficial for everybody Joseph so I'm stly for one and four so that is residents know I'm the West Side
100% And thank you sson I need more time to make a recommendation but I will make sure to give it to the city manager's office so he can give you that feedback okay thank
you yeah I need a little bit more information because uh I I'm leaning towards four but also three um to have a better understand understanding of what it is we can do that's going to um protect the west side but um at the
same time you know there are people that have apartments on in that area that um I want to make sure that they're part of this discussion if they haven't been already if this in any way affects them and it may not so I need a little bit more time to review
this if I can add also mayor um when it states to Legal extent that's a moving Target and it's very difficult um because the more you reduce density and intensity the more challenges you're liable to face um is there's not a magic
number or a magic you know analysis that's going to be able to determine okay where are we good and where are we not good so you're going to have a greater risk with option four with potential challenges if you're going to make reductions across the board just so that you're aware right that's why I was
going with four and three so it's based on it would really be a combination but we would be looking to you to give the recommendation because that's of course we understand that there are challenges with bir right and it depends on the property it depends you know if there's a you know if it's something that's
going to be developed in the future versus something that's more immediately developable um you know there's a lot of factors that fall into play but certainly there's aspects to So currently and please correct me if I'm wrong because I've looked at this too
many times um I believe your F under the comp right now is limited to 2.0 correct business it is okay so if you decide to go and your your your actual code provides for more than that right
so that's part of the disparity that you have right now so if you choose number four you're going to be sticking to two essentially right right so that's going to create more of uh friction with the development community with regards to not being able to go over the 2.0 that's
currently in your comp plant so those are the types of ramifications of and I'm not saying you shouldn't choose for but just understand that you're going to have more challenges with the lower density lower intensity or lowering that to um the
maximum low that you can hopefully you know get away with but it's very difficult to pinpoint what legal challenges you may or may not have well that's why we have you I can react to the challenges but it's hard to predict okay so I have a question for go ahead
for Alan so I know the state uh we have Upstate legislators uh who you know have large swats of land to develop redevelop and they don't a lot of times
don't take into consideration a city like Sunny Isles where we're just so dense and it's up to the commission to protect what we have so that we don't become like New York city
so I know with we have regulations and laws that are going to come down that actually try to restrict the city that is so much like ours to build
more but are there any exemptions at all uh due to uh density intensity that we have have currently no I mean that's typically that is regulated at the local level but a perfect example is live local my
Senator pizo did a great speech um and I think he even mentioned Sunny Al directly with regard to certain Coastal communities where this would be so impactful versus others it's said and it's argued by your representatives at the state level but I
don't know if that falls on death ears or not but typically land development is a local you're the you're the local planning agency that's usually a local issue there's obviously restrictions on the state level you know whether it's affordable housing or certain other
aspects but generally it's controlled but you do have very strong property rights in Florida on the federal law and state law you have the Bert Harris act which is essentially if you can't make out a takings claim under the federal uh
guidelines or even State guidelines will give you Bert Harris which will let you kind of claim the same thing um so that exposes you more um because of the strong property rights you have in Florida so it's not that you're preempted but there are consequences to
your Land Development um regulations well at some point I think we're going to have to end up in court I mean at some point there's going to be a developer that doesn't like what we're trying to do to protect our residents
and that may be something that happens you know it could be an expensive proposition my my role is to tell you that the possibility is there okay thank you yeah thank you so much for the discussion I know we kept
you well past lunch here um and hopefully you're not too sick of us because we will be back Friday for a discussion on uh the bonus uh structure within um the Land Development code so we'll be focusing solely on existing bonuses and potential modifications to
the bonus um structure and it'll be a shorter discussion we promise okay and then in the meantime before we we uh close this um I had said in the beginning that there's no public comment but I do encourage um the public to send in any comments questions I believe the
uh Clerk's email is going to be on the screen um reach out to us individually reach out to the manager this uh conversation is not over um this is still happening and we still want people's feedback as much as possible so and and thank you for all the work that you've done um and for the um the good
questions may I give some homework to whom to you maybe or the C manager um in anticipation of the bonus discussion um I maybe it's already part of your notes but I I would like to get some examples
of some of our existing buildings like our tallest ones and just tell us this is what it is this is what it would have been without the bonus so that we can have some scale on the east side you mean yeah
okay I mean have we given bonuses on the west like maybe we have so um we in the centri PID those areas I think just just some examples so that we we can appreciate what those bonuses
mean in bricks MH okay yes okay so bonuses are not an entitlement correct they're discretionary that's correct yes okay so I think some developers are not aware of that and they assume that they
have bonuses you know that you know that's a right yeah that it's a right so that's one of the changes we need to make in your code because the way it's worded now it's very there's a sh in there that's problematic um they should be
discretionary and and not as of right but they've been treated as of right and um that's one of the changes we need to make I do just want to provide a little bit of context um uh with regard to commissioner RCA's uh
request um previously we had discussed with the commission um was one of the first things we did I guess at the the first Workshop uh that on the east side um we were proposing to keep the amount of bonuses that were available in other
words we weren't looking to reduce those maybe restructuring them um in terms of what a developer has to do to get them but at the end of the day you'd still be able to get on the east side of Collins the same intensity that you could get today I just wanted to be clear about that so that when we talk on Friday
we're we're really intending to talk about the structure of those bonuses as as opposed to the total amount that can be awarded east of Collins so I had forgotten that but but still my request um is the same just just to have
something visual to to just to be able to visualize it yeah I I think that that commissioner viscar makes a very good point it would be nice to have some you know what if and what would have been um some some sort of um pictures would be
great okay so with that um we're going to adjourn and we'll see you on Friday thank you thank you