Okay, thank you. Okay, so we're here for the Tuesday, May 26, 2026 meeting of the zoning board of appeals and now being up to 7 p.m. We have a hybrid meeting and
we will start with um approving past meeting minutes. We have from three meetings that were presented. Do we have a motion to approve the meeting minutes? All in favor? >> Okay. So, it's unanimous.
And the next matter is petition 2604 by Jeff Tucker for 11 Yulo Street for relief to permit um modifications of an of a existing dwelling unit uh to expand
the attic space. Hello. >> Okay. >> Can you hear us, Jeff? Uh, yes. Thank you. >> Hi, Jeff. >> Hi.
>> So, um, you want to tell us a little bit about the petition? >> Uh, I think Emily, uh, Emily Baron is there on my, uh, for my office. Uh, she should be able to, uh, go through it. I'm just here for questions as well. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Would like to expand her existing attic space um to make it more accommodating. And so what we came up with was to raise the ridge a bit and add some dormers to get some more functional space on the attic floor. Um we did do the
calculations of the half story which gets us to 702 square feet of the max that's allowed. But our proposed plan is 902 square feet. So we are asking for relief for the extra 200 in square 200.
>> So my my question is about the 92 calculation because we've had this we've had this issue on a number of um applications before and wanted to make sure that the your
calculation has the area that is considered um living area. So I believe it's under the state building code, I looked it up a little while ago, is seven feet. That's how if there's any of the area that's under seven feet, we wouldn't
count it as part of the livable area that you would be expanding. So I'm wondering if you might be you'll get some square footage, but it's only like 10 10 around the dorm. >> It's not a lot. Yeah, we we took that
out of the calculation >> already. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. So I just wanted to make sure of that >> what vehicle do we have to give them dimensional relief? >> So the way our board has treated it in the past is that we don't have a
mechanism to give dimensional relief to vary um the limitation on a third story. So it would be a variance that would be needed which is an extraordinarily hard
burden to to meet. Um and I I I was just thinking about you've got so there's existing living space there. I mean the the the thing is if it were expanded to 702
it would be permitted. Um I don't even know if you need zoning relief for the 702 because everything's you would maybe you need a finding by the building inspector. So 702 can be done as of right. The question is the other 200 feet.
>> I I I believe it's a variance. I don't think we can do it by special permit and I'm not sure if anybody has any other thoughts about that. I think it's a really nice project. I'd love to be able to get to yes on it but does anybody have any other thoughts
about that? Maybe it's just a bit. I think you got to go around the perimeter and trim a couple of feet here and there. See what you can do. >> Any other bedrooms? >> I'm sorry. >> Or just take it out of the bedrooms. You
know, you got a couple feet at the dormer. I know we want to, you know, it seems like they intended to have it in line with the um exterior wall, but >> right easiest route. If I could mention, by the way, we
actually did that exercise. This is Jeff Tucker. Um, we actually did do a byite scheme and it was so squeezed. Uh, I mean, that's obviously we we we tested it at the smaller size. Uh, just given where the stair is and where the chimneys are, uh, we kind of could not
could not make that work. Um, so we definitely hear you, but uh, again, it became a very, uh, tiny bit of, uh, footprint on the roof. I'm just wondering right they got such a big stairway that goes there. I'm just wondering about that definition of
story. >> What is to the left of the stair square footage calculation since it is just mechanical access. >> We could it it did not get us all the way down to 702 though. Yeah, >> but yeah, we can certainly trim that.
>> That was bringing some light into the stair. Um, but currently there is a stair in that location. >> Uh, sorry, Jeeoff, I was I was asking the board if if we would have to necessarily calculate that >> as livable square footage >> about about the stairway. Yeah, that's
what I was wondering. I was just looking at the definition >> in the bylaw of story. that portion of a building >> unit that's within the >> including basement, sellers, garages, storage areas, etc. contained between any floor and the floor
>> or roof next above it, >> the lowest level of a building, including basement, sellers. That's >> I think >> that's the lowest level that's not applicable here. I mean, he said even if you do take that out, it still doesn't get
>> sure what that's even looking like. >> Well, as you come down the stair, there's a ledge here. That ledge is giving you access to that. >> What one? The only thing I can think of that you could do is if you could add 400 square feet on the second floor.
>> Seriously, that would permit it, >> right? Then you'd have another 400. to be 50%. Because you have so much room dimensionally >> walls, >> right? >> You're you're fine on all your setbacks, everything except for lot area.
And you know, I know the neighborhood, your large homes in the neighborhood. I don't think adding I mean that's that's one way of doing without a variance in my opinion. Does anybody have any thoughts about that? If they added part of their project 400 square
feet on floor two >> be as of right correct >> they could do it the 400 square feet they could do as of right >> and then they could add then they could have the >> feasible larger stud on the right >> second floor right over the
um the kitchen edition. >> There you go. Is that on a full foundation? >> Yes, it is on a full foundation. There are there are those porches that we did not count, right? There's open air porches that flank the building if you look at the rendering on the first page,
>> right? They don't they don't count unless enclosed. >> Would a pergola >> help us there? >> If you were to put those covered, it would need to be living area >> windows.
>> But that's one thing to consider. I think that's the really the two choices are that it's it's reduced to the 702 and no relief we you would just need a finding from the building inspector or adding 400 square feet making it bigger
might seem counterintuitive for the zoning board to just that but quite frankly I see that as an option that you could do that would make it legally compliant. I missed what you said about the building inspector. >> I'm sorry.
>> I missed what you said about the building inspector. >> I have a hearing issue. >> The building inspector. Did you say something about >> I missed that part. >> Oh, that you could you could have just it could be done perhaps just by a
finding there. The building inspector I believe he has the jurisdiction to award uh to give you a building permit. So if you went in with a plan, >> see how that works. Just because you >> they're going to have to redo the roof anyway >> doesn't
>> if you then you're 50% of the floor below. >> So if you put if you put >> 50% of the floor that you're on the floor below >> you compare it. So the the third the third floor the second two and a half that can be 50% of the floor immediately
below. So if you increase >> to rip that off. >> Okay. >> If you added 400 square feet that would let you put up another 200. >> Yeah. Okay. on that and it would still be a half story on our definition. >> Just gave added 150,000 to their project, right?
>> Oh, yeah. The way the >> Right. >> Well, or you could shrink it. It' be a little less of the budget if you got a choice. >> It Well, we we did look at a smaller plan and honestly, it doesn't save any, >> right? You don't save any money. You don't, >> right? You're taking the roof off.
You're >> No. >> Well, the roof of the of the study's coming off anyway, correct? Um, it does need modification and I was going to take out the skylights anyway. >> So, bigger study.
>> Bigger study. >> Interesting proposal. Yeah, >> that's so that's I don't know if anybody else has any other comments about the petition or if there are any questions that >> in this bedroom >> that the applicant has Jeff has
>> funny shaped bedroom >> because I'm thinking what we could do is we could continue it to our next meeting. >> Uhhuh. You might be a if you if you're able to make modifications to your plan that the building inspector can just prove you may not need to come back here, including my suggestion of the 400
square feet. Um, and if you need to come back here, you'd already be noticed and advertised and ready to go for relief that we might need to give you. >> Well, to be to be clear, the only reason we would come back to you is to actually seek a variance, right? Because there's
no other relief being offered here. We've already been through planning board, so we don't really need >> I don't think you're going to need relief, >> right? >> Just in case the building inspector thinks different than you or I think, we would keep you on our agenda.
>> Got it. >> So that you don't have to revertise and renotice. >> We did reach out to him at the very beginning of this project to find out what the rules were here. And it was it was our impression from him that that it was a special permit and not a u a
variance. Obviously, we try to avoid variances, you know, anytime we can. >> Yeah, I I do see it as as a variance. I don't see it as a special permit. I don't if anybody else >> No, I agree. When I reviewed all this before, I was struggling to come up with
a way to say yes. And I paid close attention to it because the house right next door to me has the half story which looks like a third story next to me >> and uh but he was permitted to to have that half story
and I've seen a bunch of other ones over the years. So that would be my thought on it. So would would you want to continue to our next >> Can I ask? >> Absolutely. So what you're saying is is that if
um if I push forward with the plan as is, I need a variance and you're saying getting that variance is not >> really really really difficult standard. >> Really difficult. >> We've I can count on one hand in the 20
years I've been on this board how many variances we've given. Probably about five. >> And you need to have a reason for it. So, you need to have an unusually shaped law that wouldn't that would make it so hard for you to comply. >> Okay.
>> Or some other hardship. And >> so, >> it it's it would I don't see that we'd be able to get to a variance on on um increasing the
to permit a larger story, half story, more than a half story. So I don't I don't see a variance as a as a viable way to get there. I see that because you have a generously sized lot
>> area that there's an alternative which would permit it. It it may seem >> strange but that would I think permit it. So I think that you have the two choices. It sounds like the 702 is >> now you can knock down the second or
>> just redo everything. If I can ask, um I I know this is like splitting hairs, but it might actually solve it. If you notice that overhang is really deep. Um I can't remember how deep it is, but it's certainly in excess of 18 in, which is your standard for um uh for like a
cornice. Given the fact that it's extra deep, does that possibly buy us extra square footage, particularly over those porches? I I think it's just a calculation of what is the living area below. >> And I don't I don't think that would um
>> include any of it. I I mean it could be as simple as closing it in and making one of the areas a screen porch. >> Right. Right. >> Enclosed. I think that would meet our definition. >> Right. It doesn't have to be heated and cooled. >> I don't think it needs to be heated or
cooled in my opinion. >> Got it. Do change I mean not our jurisdiction but do change these changes that we're talking about for the second floor impact the planning board and the decisions they made. >> Yeah. Then now they got 900 square ft
and 150 square ft. Now they're building 1,200 ft new. Don't they have to go to the planning board over 800? >> You may need to go back to planning board with modified plan. If >> if you're triggered, >> is that is that triggered if it was
1,200 square feet in total? >> We we had already triggered it. >> Yeah. >> On the 900, >> right? So, but you got to now if you made changes >> Yeah. But they're not have a problem. >> They're not going to have a problem with it. They they gave the re relief subject to ours. I don't think they'll have any
problem. It's really just trying to comply with the zoning limitation. >> Right. I'll have to to double check if they'll need to go back, but I'll be in touch if that's something um if you change it that would need to go back and get approval again. >> Well, I'm just I'm wondering if you
could um if they would administratively let do it as an as an amendment where it's an as of right addition to the second floor, >> right? If it's less than 400 square feet, then it could just be um approved by the building commissioner.
>> Yeah. Yep. Okay. because they already got it approved. >> Yep. So this >> So to get going. Yeah, I think you'd be okay because it's another 400. You've already got approval of the >> 900. >> So any other questions for us? >> Um
so if we are able to make the dormer more sloped so it is under the 73 for a portion of it, we can cut all that out too, right? >> You can cut all that out as well. Okay. >> So, that's another way of >> looking to do it. So, that's what they did next to me. >> Okay.
>> On Brown Road, they had um they have a dormers that are very steep, but a lot of the areas under the 73 and it didn't count. >> So, we can try to do that as much as we can, too. >> Yeah. So,
um what what do we have for a date on the June meeting? Do we have any other petitions yet? >> We have two petitions um for the June meeting. Today was actually the deadline. >> Um and I believe it's on the 16th, but
let me double check. >> Yeah, I have it on my calendar. >> June June 16th. >> Okay. So, we'd ask you to sign a continuence to June 16th. >> Okay. >> And um is that what you would like to do to continue to that date? And if you
don't come back, you don't. >> Yeah. So, we'll just do it just >> Okay. >> So, that >> Right. If we do that, I I would just want to open and close the public hearing really quickly. Um just because that's why we noticed for public hearing. If if we do want to continue >> Oh, open up
>> tonight. Yeah. >> Um wait, so I'm I'm lost. You want us to do what with the public hearing? >> Open and close it really fast. Oh, so >> because it was noticed for tonight and then we would continue another one. >> Well, I would I would look to keep the
public hearing open, >> right? Right. I meant like we would just need to open it and then close it to continue it. >> It'll be on our agenda. >> Yeah. >> We would open it on the six. If they didn't need relief, we could open it. >> Gotcha. >> Just let them withdraw
>> because they don't need the relief. And if they need the relief, we've got our public hearing open and we can continue and then close it. Right. >> Okay. So, do I have a motion to continue to June 16th? >> A second.
>> Second. >> All in favor? I >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> So, all right. Good luck project. >> Thanks. That's it for what we have, right? >> Yeah. Motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjourn. So moved. All in
favor? I