um CIC joint meeting. Okay. >> Um I will Okay, you're good. Um so I will call the select board meeting um to order and um I guess with a motion we will enter into
our meeting. We don't need a motion. Thank you. >> Second. >> Go ahead. Maybe we don't leave. >> Yeah, we don't. Yeah. Okay. Um so I just we have a couple of um quick updates before we start. Um thanks for joining
us. The tri chair has been diligently meeting in order to set up um the idea of the financial summit. Um we sort of decided that because there were a lot of moving pieces um some positions that are
vacant in lie of a broad sweeping financial summit we would try to do some mini sessions. So this is the first of what we hope is like a quarterly or more frequently depending on time um joint meeting. Um thank you all for making
time in your schedule and being flexible to reschedule from last week. Appreciate that. Couple of notes from Joe. Um because the senior center is not acoustically perfect. Uh the feedback in here is aggressive. So if you could just
make sure you lean in to speak and uh or pull the microphone closer to you. Also, um try not to mess with the on and off. Uh if we could just leave it on unless you're having a private discussion. Um Joseph, that will help with the feedback. Um,
so I'm Katie Felen, select board chair. Eric and Amy and I, um, are excited to, uh, start with the agenda presented. The request is that because we are only slotted for two hours here that we really do try to stick to the agenda.
Um, so if a topic comes up that is not on the agenda or we get too far down a rabbit hole, that's why we put up these handy little um, postits and we'll write things down for future meetings and tri chair will create agendas based on feedback that is happening at this
meeting for future meetings. Um, see there's that feedback. Um, so uh, we will start with public comment. If there is public comment, uh we will limit it to three minutes and we will not be taking public comment during
our discussion. So if you have any public comment on the agenda at all, now is the time. Please, Mr. Patios. >> Hi, Charlie Patios. Um my my uh comment is regarding the Hawthorne by the Sea Restaurant and the closing this Saturday
and the auction that's here. I strongly urge the select board to empower the the town administrator to bid on this particular auction. Why? We'll know what the items are going to be worth in order for you to keep this restaurant intact and to have the opportunity to possibly allow someone to come in and rent it. If
you keep all the equipment within the restaurant, us becoming the owners of the equipment within it, you'll have a high chance of renting it compared to having all this equipment removed and having zero chance of renting it as a functioning restaurant. We'll know approximately what the value of the
equipment is based on the auction results. And I'm going to just pick an not an arbitrary number, but a rough number, 90 to $110,000. We'll know what the value of the what the items are worth individually to people. We'll also know what it's worth to the town. If we pay that number,
whatever it is, we'll have an opportunity to lease it to someone else as a functioning restaurant with all the equipment, tables, chairs, dishes, forks, knives, equipment, and we'll have a functioning restaurant the next day. We will not have a functioning restaurant if we allow the auction to
proceed because everything will be removed. As a result, let's keep the equipment, run the auction at the point where we now don't want the restaurant anymore, and we'll approximately get the same value at our auction that Anony's will get at their auction, but we'll
have a functioning restaurant that we could potentially rent to someone for whatever it is, one, two, or three years. Thank you. >> Thank you. Any other public comments?
Okay, seeing none, also uh we invited folks to leave comment via email to me and I have not received any. So, um all right, so we will move right into the meat of the discussion. Um we have invited capital um improvement committee here to join us. Um so that we could
really discuss um the five-year capital improvement plan. Um Nick has really and Jason have both taken on a lot of work to make sure that they've presented something to us that is you know realistic and um in its five-year plan and then I think what the idea will be
is they'll present certain projects and if we have questions we can stop and ask those questions as those projects are being presented and then at the end if there are projects that are missing that you have questions about why they weren't presented we can handle that at the end. That makes sense.
All you sir Diane, could you pull up the slides I had? >> So just to build off what Katie said, uh the idea here tonight was that we're going to be speaking to the net new projects that have been uh discussed this year as we've spoken to department
heads. The idea of the five-year plan and what it might look like coming to town meeting. Yep, that's it. Yes, it is. Thank you. Is the work that the CIC will be engaging in shortly and we'll be providing more information with them shortly as well. So, could you go
>> could you go to the next slide when you get a chance? >> Yeah, I have to share it. I can't see all that. Well, So, I'll provide a little more background while we figure this out. Technically, um, I want to thank everyone for being here. I think this is a great exercise for us to do in advance of the official CIC kickoff. It gives us
an opportunity to have a a real discussion with the community and find out from you all as stakeholders the things that we should be focusing on going forward. Um, and selfishly for me, it's hugely helpful because I'm getting to get a deeper understanding of the needs um, and the goals here in the
community as well. Are we sharing yet? >> We are. >> Perfect. Uh, the presentations tonight are a preview, as I said, of the new requests um that have come in through the discovery process led by Patrick. Uh, we anticipate that the recommendation will
be prepared shortly and we'll coordinate with CIC on the next steps there. I'm going to be as brief as possible so we can get into the meat which is really Max Gino um Jason uh to talk about some of the Can we go back a little bit please?
Um so to the first slide >> okay so I I can just speak to this instead. Um the goal here is to guide all of our work um by looking at long-term planning, the ongoing and preventative maintenance, uh actually
using the inventory management as a tool to make sure that we're investing in the right places uh in financially aligning what we can do, what we would like to do, and the things that we need to do. Uh each piece works together so that we can make the most informed contextual decisions possible. I'm not even sure
what slide we're on. So the CIC uh that this process provides a a structured and objective uh review of all the needs that we bring together. Do you need something Ryan? >> Uh Rich Raymond saying the audio is not coming through Teams. It's only coming through Facebook.
>> I'll hold for a minute. >> Thanks. Thank you, Ryan. Yeah, that's fine. >> It smells like Diane, >> can you just go to the next slide for when when we're ready? Thanks. >> Right there.
>> Yep. >> What time is it? Are you >> This is a very dangerous game. >> The Jets could turn a >> shorter. They've gotten
>> set for a while. I'll just take the uh heat off of the um of Joe and his team because I asked it to be at the senior center so we could all sit this way instead of face each other awkwardly in those chairs. So, this is my fault. I will take full responsibility.
>> Throw some gummy worms at us. >> Oh, yeah. >> Brought it home. >> That's disgusting. >> It's going to be in sales. >> Sure. Do you measure how much going? >> Did he last year?
>> She like driving him from neighborhood to >> neighborhood. Not telling what he can and can't do. >> Yeah. Like >> Yeah. No, he got on the scale. Wonder how much he covered. >> 16, 17y old kids coming. We'll be down there for
the time still like that's a long day with like drinking >> I don't library. >> So there was a accessibility project we needed to do to make it
>> so Doug is on. So we just have to do that if they listen on Facebook or just Facebook. This is his No, but Patrick was on there to answer questions if it came up
>> if there's a specific question. answer. >> I don't know about everyone else. >> Cyber cafe. I thought that was >> meeting. >> That's what we were saying last Thank you very much.
So for those folks who are on teams, they cannot get the um so the request is that if you are currently on teams, which you can't hear me, so you can't hear this request, ironically, >> um is to well they can't hear me
anyways. um is to go on to uh YouTube or Facebook and then if there are questions to reach out um and we will try to work it out through each individual committee. >> A message. Thank you. >> And they're going to keep working on it. So if something should change and they
can hop back on Teams, we will let them know during the meeting. Um >> post a message for this meeting to tell people to do that. >> Yes. stay in. Would you post a message in the comment section to let people know that technology is preventing >> just say we're having technological difficulties
>> to Facebook or to YouTube >> and then they could hear us although it will deter the participation and we will work on a better >> setup for next time.
Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, can I get started again? Okay. So, I think we're back on the second slide. Really, all these slides just lay out for those that are watching. I think
many in the room probably know a lot of this already, but this lays out the process that we undertake with the policies that have been set in place and the practices that have been in place for years. Uh these highlight, you know, the different ways the projects are prioritized. I'm not going to read individual slides to you. This one
especially because it's been up for a while. Can we go to the next one, Diane? >> I want to underscore this one because it's something that highlights the hard work that's been done over time here that puts us in a better position than many communities. Um there's a lot of communities out there that only use free
cash. They don't do long-term planning. uh there is not the idea that uh we need to prioritize these projects around safety or needs or anything else. It is literally we have this much money this year. What can we jam in or how do we go to package things up into a debt exclusion? Right here we're laying out
all of the work that has gone into this over time that puts us in a much better position. Um as folks know uh there's a guideline that we have to stay between I think it's five five and 7% of the budget uh on debt up to 10 is the ceiling. when you include current debt exclusions, we're getting closer to that
ceiling. But that's one of those things that is a discussion among elected and appointed officials. Like a debt exclusion can be thought of differently than some of the debt that we're carrying on normal capital, but this is just something that we could be talking about in the future. It's something I want to highlight. We are in a much better position in that regard than
other communities because of hard work that's been done over time and a commitment by everyone at this table and those before you uh to make sure that this is the way that we do it. things that can be funded through enterprise or funded through enterprise. We plan for major projects if they need a debt exclusion and they're socialized over
time to try to build um support for it. So again, I'm not going to read in each part of this, but it's really important to recognize the work that has gone on here that puts us in a better position. And that's something I even talked about when I was being interviewed that both uh on the budget overall and the debt
that is spent and the capital money that is spent. Uh it there's been real planning and real consistency here that has put us in a position to make decisions instead of simply react. Uh can we go to the next slide? So this is just a a little bit of a
process reminder for everyone and where we'll be going from here. uh Patrick and I and and the department heads have been working to gather all the requests and to put together the recommendation that will go to the CIC shortly. The CIC then does their work uh around a detailed
five-year plan. It includes public process. It includes discussion with um department heads and others. And then there's the formal adoption through through both the select board and town meeting. So again, this is more for folks that aren't in this room. Everyone here sort of understands this is how it goes. But it is really important to
recognize the work that has gone in over time and it's the reason that we put this effort in to allow us to make decisions again instead of just reacting every year. Uh and so with that, I believe that's all the slides I have. Uh we're going to turn it over to uh a number of department heads to go through
uh one by one. I I want to underscore what Katie said, which is, you know, we're going through the larger projects that are new. Please feel free to stop us if there's questions as we go. And also keep in mind that we want to hear about things that we may not have had on the list that have been talked about in
the community, are important to you, you've heard about from others that we want to make sure that we at least begin to socialize and to research. Um, but this is just where we are as right now. As of right now, it's a snapshot in time and it's a it's meant to spur discussion here tonight. So, Do you know which deck
is first, Diane? >> I don't, but I have them all up. So, who wants to go first? We have the financial maps and we want to start with Max.
>> Okay. >> Yes, it is. and Diane, you can go right to the second slide. >> Okay, thanks everyone. I uh just have a few slides. I'm going to run through the uh proposed FY27 facilities capital requests and then uh
talk about a couple of the bigger projects on both the town and the school slide school side in the next slides. Uh, so I'm just going to run through these projects. If anyone has a question on a particular project, I'm happy to stop and talk about it now or at the end, whatever, whatever you prefer. Uh,
the library HVAC controls project. This was initially uh exclusively a controls project to upgrade the HVAC controls at the library. Uh, that's still what it is. Uh but we are actually looking into um dovetailing it with a HVAC
project that could be funded through a through a grant and uh we're doing some preliminary work on that regardless of whether the larger HVAC project advances. Uh the controls are um in serious need of of replacement relying on a a control system that's not
consistent with a building of the scale of the library right now. library flooring. Uh there's some sections of >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Seems like the audio may be working on
teams now. So, okay. Ryan saying yes. Patrick saying yes. So, >> back one. >> Back one. other way. >> Tell me where to stop. Right there. >> Right there. Okay. Um, just on the second one, this
is library flooring. Um, there's some sections of the flooring in the library that are in uh very poor condition, namely the children's room and the room to the left. Um, as you walk in the front door or used to be able to walk in the front door as of yesterday. Um, and that's that's just a flooring project.
There's sections that we're not doing at this time because there's visions of a larger project that tie into the rear entrance. Um, so it's sections of the flooring in the library. fish house exterior improvements. Um the fish house, you know, is obviously a very
notable building in town. We've done a lot of work over the years, but it's in a very difficult location. It takes a real beating with the weather. Uh and so this is a project to do a few different um exterior projects. The masonry chimneys need to be rebuilt. There's
windows that need to be refurbished. There's constantly siding and uh trim projects that we're doing there. Uh that's sort of a conglomeration of different exterior projects at the Fish House. Um 89 Burl Street. This is the former Reach Arts building. Um I've put
it on here as a discussion point. Um there's not a dollar value associated with it right now. We're still collecting information at a staff level of uh what might be happening and the timeline and what that project might be looking like. We had a meeting with the
veterans recently to talk about it and it's um you know it's advancing. Uh we're just not clear on the scope. We're not clear on whether it will uh be presented at this time, but I didn't want to leave it off because it is a significant project potentially. Uh SHS flooring replacement. I hope most
of you have seen the uh new flooring in the entrance at the high school. The the logo uh it's LVT is the material. It's simil it's the same material that we have almost throughout the elementary school. I think it came out awesome. Um
and this is a project to do the basically the rest of the common spaces that are uh currently sheet vinyl that that is failing and to do that in LVT as well. SHs cyber cafe and guidance buildout.
This is two projects that are kind of pulled into one. uh there's a a guidance space that they've asked over the years to build out a wall and create an additional space um to use. You know, when you build a wall in a building uh of that scale, it involves many systems
and is is more expensive than you know, say building a wall in in your single family home. And then the cyber cafe, they're looking to activate that into the school store. It would be a renovation of that space. That's the space as you walk into the lobby of the
um high school. Not if you were to go into the calf, it's actually on your right. It was originally a cyber cafe when they built the high school, but that's not really a thing anymore. So, they have visions of that being a a fully built out school store.
SMS window replacement. This is a big project that uh we appropriated the design funds for last year. Um we've uh completed an RFQ process and are in the in the process of hiring a design firm uh to do this. We we've actually
selected the firm and are finalizing the contract. Um this is to replace likely uh all of the windows at the Swampscott Middle School. It's a very significant project. SHs, SMS, MEP improvements. Uh again,
this is pulling in a a number of smaller capital projects at the high school and the middle school of mechanical, electrical, and plumbing, predominantly mechanical, but there's there's some electrical and plumbing projects as well. Uh we've had some real success over the last 5 years or so um with this
approach of, you know, pulling smaller projects together at a handful of buildings. Um and that's that's what this is. District security improvements. Uh this is across the um school district, mainly the high school and the
middle school because the elementary school is is brand new, but there is actually one small project at the elementary school that's part of this. Um again, this is a a conglomeration of of smaller projects, but some big projects are baked in here. Um the
biggest one is the BDA at the high school. So, that's a system that allows firefighters and police to use their radios in these large concrete and steel buildings. Uh, they're required when you build a new building today, but the high school was just before that that code
went into effect. So, that's one piece. And then there's a whole list of um projects. Some of the some of the big ones and important ones. The middle school and the elementary school have duress button systems currently. So if there's a situation at those buildings, they can press these buttons and there's
an immediate response um by the police and fire eventually. Um but the high school does not have that system that the middle school and the elementary school currently have. Um there's security, the actual intrusion system at the high school is in need of a
front-end repair. Um, again, I can go into more detail if there's a desire, but there's a there's a list of projects that are that are falling into that category. SHs HVAC study. Um,
this is to start looking at the HVAC at the high school. Uh, the high school is coming up on 20 years old in just just a couple years here, which is, you know, surprising to many. Um it's in actually quite good shape the building overall but we are starting to see some failures
in some components of the um HVAC system. Actually this section of the building here in the senior center we are in the process of replacing the condensing unit on the roof because it uh partially failed last year and we're starting to see issues creep up on some
of our other rooftop units. Uh the HVAC at this building is is very complex. Um and there's a lot of different ways you can approach it. Uh so we want to start looking at it and being very proactive um with what we're going to do over time. And there's a larger project I'm
going to speak about in a little bit, but this is sort of the first step in starting to shape what the larger projects down the road should look like instead of just letting them kind of hit us in the face and, you know, have these large large projects that just come up
and and that's what would happen here at the high school. SHs parking lot and solar canopy design. Uh this project actually started as exclusively the paving project uh for the high school parking lot because the asphalt is starting to be in disrepair.
You might notice there's some potholes at times. Um we then layered in um the senior center front entry. There's some desire to improve the accessibility here at the front entrance. So that would be part of it. And then also we're looking at solar canopy design. And um here at
the high school, if we're going to do a paving project, that's the perfect time to be also doing at at least the infrastructure or potentially the full buildout of a solar canopy. We've done a preliminary study with uh Conigi who's help who's doing our project at the
elementary school right now about the viability and um it appears at this time to be a very viable project. So again, this is a design project to to look at this project holistically. SHS envelope improvements. Um we've done
pretty well over the last few years at keeping the envelope here at SHS uh tight, but again it's coming up on on 20 years and we're going to, you know, we're going to be looking at some larger projects with the envelope in in the in the notsodistant future. Um there's a
there's a system that looks a lot like stucco. Um, it's not quite stuckco, but we're having so a big chunk of this is to is to do a significant project on this like wall area that's you you don't see it often when you're kind of looking at the high school, but like up on the
roofs and some of the like higher sections of the building where they meet the roof. Um, we have some significant repairs there. Uh, we've had to do some roof drain projects already over the last few years. There's some additional roof drain work that that we need to do
and uh some some roofing roofing areas that we're looking at there. Finally, uh project I have spoke about before uh and we're we're actually not sure if it's going to be able to advance, but we're kind of keeping it on the list as we work through the process
is the SCES solar canopy project. It's a project that's been fully designed, but has been held up by National Grid. Um it's a it's a great project. we'd like to do it, but there's national grid infrastructure issues that are a major hurdle to the project. Uh it's not
completely dead. Um but it's very much has a cloud over it and we don't know the exact status as we head into town meeting, but we have months here and we'll have more clarity by the time we get there. So, we're keeping it on there for discussion purposes right now. >> Cloud solar project, Max. Nice one.
>> What's that? >> There's a cloud over the solar project. Um yeah and you know just to speak to it a little bit um why it is such a great project not not just to have solar and and offset the cost there but we would
still likely be able to leverage the IRA um because we have started it already and we have full design and the timing we'd be able to implement it so we have about a 30% payback there. Uh and it's a great project for the climate leaders accelerator grant which Swampscott is
eligible for. Um, that's a million-dollar grant. We will do that grant. We will use that grant somewhere at some point, but this would be an awesome project. We could we could do we could almost put this project in place for very very little costs to the town and reap benefits for years and years.
But again, there's this major hurdle we're trying to work through. >> Max, can you explain a little what is the hurdle with the infrastructure? My memory was before we couldn't get on their schedule. They had other things to do. But is it different now the reason why it's not happening? Yeah, it's not that. It's not a scheduling issue. It's
actually National Grid's infrastructure, the wires that feed the building, their substations, and the age of it, and the capacity of it. So, they have concerns when you're a solar generator that you, you know, are at some point potentially going to push u push energy back onto
the grid. They even have concerns when you're a large user like like we are at the elementary school of when you're not using the capacity they would expect you to use. That actually can have implications on their planning for their infrastructure. Um
it gets pretty technical. I don't really know all of the details, but we we've been in a study already to be able to implement the rooftop project. and they were looking at the rooftop project and the canopy project simultaneously. The only way and and so the results the
initial results we were getting from that were major major improvements on national grid size hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars potentially. The only way we could sort of fasttrack that's it's funny to say that now because it took two years to actually do it the roof project was to have them
stop looking temporarily at the canopy project because they couldn't look at the two separately. So again, the rooftop, the roof is covered in solar panels as we sit here today. It'll be generating by the end of the winter, early early spring. Uh that's a a real success, but there's still major
challenges to the to the solar canopy. >> Just to ask the question, is the is it a cost issue for National Grid that have to spend money to make it compatible? And is that a manageable number that could fit in such a cheap project for us and still make it have a good return? We don't actually have all the information
yet. So like where we are right now is we need National Grid to sort of restart the study. We've asked them to do that. Um and we're going to get that information over time. Hopefully over the next couple months, but you know, working with National Grid and their timelines is very very challenging. So
um I don't know exactly when we're going to even know that that answer. >> Thank you. Okay. Thanks. >> No problem. >> I have a couple of questions. Good. Well, I was just going to ask just I think we know the answer to this, but I think just might be good to just remind people the middle school window
replacement since there's a project a page later that talks about a hund00 million renovation. I know we're only have put aside design funds, but the expectation is there that none of that will be throwaway replacement work that'll stay in the in the new bu in the new revised building. Is that a fair statement?
>> Yeah, that that's the hope. I mean, we don't we don't know with certainty what the middle school project would be. So there is some risk and you know the windows are at a in in condition at this point where we can't really wait anymore. We have to at least be advancing the design and and likely the
the full project. Um but you know our I'll speak a lot about the middle school in a in a bit but yes the the hope and expectation is that we're not throwing good money after bad with the windows. Um but you know there's not certainty with that. there's a possibility that
you know sections >> um but we you know we can't in the meantime let water sort of infiltrate into the classrooms. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Max, do you know I mean I look at HVAC controls and upgrades and studies and also wind window replacements. Do you
know if we get any sort of energy incentives or programs tax credits associated with any of those sort of upgrades and mods? >> Yeah, I do. Um the windows we don't uh the windows grant opportunity would have been through MSBA. I'll speak in a little bit
of why that is is not the case. Uh but the energy projects we always um leverage um the utility. There's incentives available for weatherization projects and heat pump projects and controls projects. Um, that controls
project you're specifically referencing is likely going to be paired with an HVAC project at the library that will run through green communities that will have massive um incentives through national grid and be funded almost entirely uh by uh the green communities
program. So, >> great. >> Yeah, we're we're always looking at that and leveraging that. Okay. Should I move on to the next slide? >> Office to see if they can help move that along. >> We have in fact. Yes.
>> Oh, thank you. >> We may we may need to again once we're kind of back into the process for the solar canopy. >> Cool. Thank you. Sorry to be late. >> No problem. So my my next couple slides are just pulling out some really big projects
that are potentially on the plan on the plan uh for the next next few years. Um so first I'm going to talk about a a couple of town projects. Um library entries. So we are in the midst now as of this week of a major library entry
front entry project. Um I think it's going to be a great project. we're it's it's off to a good start. Um we when we did the design, we also looked at activating the rear entry to the library. Um and I believe that, you know, that is the wish of the library
director and the trustees to eventually advance that project as well. The rear entry, there's a a little depiction of a initial early schematic in the lefthand corner of the slide. Um that project would include a redesign of
like the entire um sort of corridor of the of the library and the way they process things there. So it's um that's why it's such a such a bigger number, you know, for um to put in perspective, the project we're doing in the front right now is about an $800,000 project,
but it's all exterior. Um this project is less exterior work, but more interior work. And we haven't we're not at construction document level for this just just schematic level. And Naomi, >> I see that um I mean it looks like a
much more formal entrance. It's a very lovely sketch, but I don't see how it's accessible, and I'm hoping that that's part of the plan. >> Certainly, uh that that one you're looking at actually is accessible. It's a little hard to tell, but there is a there is a lift there to the left of the stairway. Um, but we have options that
include a lift and options that include a a ramp that we're looking at both of them. I don't think >> say the lift. I mean, there are there are many other places that use a lift just for this little one half a floor kind of thing. It's always problematic. People have to figure out how to use it
and sometimes it breaks and it rusts. It's on the exterior. I'd be much more comfortable with a ramp and I don't I I work in geriatrics so this doesn't suit as far as I'm concerned, but I hope you'll just take that into consideration
since you're beginning that design. >> Nope. Certainly, it will 100% be accessible and we're looking at all options. We, you know, this this isn't really advancing right now. These are just sort of where when we did the design for the front, we were looking at this at that point. So, it's sort of
like static as we look at it right now. Max, when you guys contemplated or do contemplate um the rear exit or entrance, will there also be improvements to the walkway so that like for example, you could park in
town hall and access? I know you can now, but it's sort of narrow if you're it's more well um utilized. It might need an expansion to some walkways in the in between town hall and the library. >> Yeah. No, I don't think we have looked at that yet, but there definitely would
be opportunity to. I think that's a that's a great idea. >> Okay. >> There is um with the side entry project that could be coming up at uh well is is on the warrant for the special town meeting. Um there is a redesign of an of a section of the walkway. It was actually just necessary because of the
grading. It wasn't actually driven by the walkways themselves, but um they are getting touched with with that project. >> Okay. The second one on the town side that I was going to speak about is the uh fire station. Uh there's been different discussions over the years about the
fire station. A former chief had a vision of a of a major uh addition renovation. Uh the current chief h has a more scaledback vision. Um we have design funds right now and are working with an architect to look at look at the
basically the existing footprint existing uh structure uh activating the the third floor of the of the fire station redesigning the second floor. That's really the brunt of the project and it's mostly driven by
um equity for the changing population at the fire station. there's more women firefighters and the building um historically has been set up for there be more much more men male firefighters um and they're they're getting by right
now but you know long term we would need to make you know major adjustments to the to the layout there for that to be equitable um so really looking at the whole building again we're very early in design that num um dollar value on there
is is very much just a ballpark right now the project isn't fully defined. Um, but you know, there are some major needs at the at the building that we're going to have to address that we'll be doing through this project as well. The HVAC system uh is in is in very poor
condition. Um, that's that's a good a little overview on that project. And then the third one for on the town side is the DPW yard, new construction. Again, we um have already funded uh design to um start looking at this
project. The DPW yard uh often overlooked, but one of the um facilities in town that's in the poorest condition. Hasn't um it's it's quite old. Um hasn't got a lot of attention over the years. They really they do a lot um with a
little over there. Um but it's a tough space. I think Gino could speak to it. Like the trucks barely fit into the bays. They're very tight. Uh we have roofs that are in very uh very poor condition. Um we actually had someone we're doing some repairs today just to
kind of keep it chugging along. Uh we did a lot of work over the last couple years to make it more acceptable for the for the guys working there. Uh and I think that that went a long way. Um but really in the in the long term we think the best solution is a is a new
construction uh probably at the existing site uh from my recent discussions with the with the DPW but you know there have been discussions in the past about alternative locations um that's obviously tricky in in Swamp Scott.
>> Okay, any questions on the those big town projects? If not, I'll move on to the school projects. police station. I know it's about the same age as the school. How's that holding up? >> The new police station. >> Um, that's actually a little bit newer
um than than the high school, you mean? >> Yeah. >> Uh, it's a little bit newer. It's holding up. We've done a few projects over the years. Um, I think it'll it'll start to kind of be on our radar a little bit more, but it it is a few years newer than the than the high school and is in fairly good condition
still. We have one smaller project actually um at the police station that didn't sort of make the threshold to kind of be on the presentation. It's just a small buildout of a couple spaces there. Um
it was just a smaller dollar value. >> I just wanted to clarify the um library entrance. Um, I was looking through the notes of previous year's projects and it looks like in 2024 we appropriated $800,000 to do entrance work. The
spreadsheet says it's 10% complete, but that could be wrong. Have we spent all that money yet or is this >> is that the front? >> You haven't driven by the library in the last two days. >> No, I haven't. >> Okay. Uh, they they tore up the front of the library this week and we're under contract to do a major renovation of the
front of the library. >> Okay. So, that that line item from 20 24 that's committed that we're going to spend all that money and this should be incremental to that. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then the thing in for the special town meeting in a couple weeks that's also incremental to what's
>> been approved in the past. Okay. >> Yep. Fully the the side entry is fully designed. We have full construction documents. We did that. It made sense to do it at the same time we were doing the front. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but yeah, it was never sort of planned. I think we're the appropriation was appropriate for the scope on the on the
front. >> Okay. Cool. Thanks, Max. >> No problem. >> I would just suggest if anybody hasn't toured the DPW facility recently that you do so to understand how dire not to be dramatic, but I mean it's not great
and definitely needs to be focused on. Um, and I think it's it's hard to sort of think, oh, $15 million for, you know, like garages, right, where your trucks go. But there's also a great deal of work that happens there and um so just
to underscore that >> I think that was definitely in the forefront of many residents over the last couple of months. Yeah. >> People got a really good bird's eye view of like how how tough it is over there and what what the condition of facility is. >> And I just want to echo what you said
when I was on the select board which was many years ago Gino gave me a tour and it was needing a lot of work at that time. So it's well beyond the time that this work should be done. >> Okay. Um my last slide D. Thank you.
So I'm just going to speak to a couple of major school projects that are also on the horizon. Um the biggest um and it has been on the capital plan for a few years but definitely worthy of more and more discussion. um SMS major
renovation. Um I'm of the opinion that um you know we should be sort of collectively looking at submitting a statement of interest this this coming year. Um the timeline on a statement of interest we we know very well because we just did a project. Um it's about seven
years from when you put a statement of interest in to when you finish a project. Um, and that is a it's a long time, especially with some of the the systems we have in place at the middle school. Um, the from a facilities perspective, the
reason that I'm a proponent of this project is that we have many major systems uh in the middle school that are in very poor shape because they are very old. Uh, the middle school first section of the building was built in the 1950s.
Uh, and then there was a huge uh, addition in the 1970s. There's a picture on here of a boiler that was uh, installed during the 1970s edition that we still run to this day. Um, so there's there's just there's a
lot of risk there and we we need to really start focusing on this building. I think for a really long time all of us were focused on the elementary schools and we had to be and the middle school is sort of sitting in the background. Um, but it's there and it's needy. We've we've started to do some projects. We
did a roof project that was very badly needed. I spoke to the window project that we are, you know, we are advancing and is very badly needed. We did a fire alarm project uh that is that is fully complete now as well. So, we have been, I think, doing a better job with the middle school than we did with some of
the elementary schools years and years ago and really letting some of those fail. But um we're we're at an inflection point now to decide sort of you know what what is going to happen with with the middle school. Um
again I I spoke to these systems that are in these really poor conditions. Like we we can fix all of these systems. It'll be hard. It'll be expensive. Uh it is an option. There is some grants available for some of those systems. Um, but at the end of the day, we're going
to spend tens of millions of dollars to replace these systems and you're going to walk into the middle school and it's going to look a lot like it does today. Um, an alternative to that is get back into the core program. It might not, we might submit an SOI this year and and it
wouldn't be received because we just got one. That's, you know, very possible, maybe likely. Uh, but we, you know, we keep kind of pushing at it. Um, and the reason I think that's a good alternative is because we know the state will reimburse, you know, about 40 to 50% may, you know, more reimbursement
because there's less site work involved than we had at the elementary school. So, we could spend roughly the same amount of money and end up with, you know, not a brand new school, but something that is much better when when you walk in the door that addresses at
the same time all of the major major needs. The big ones are the HVAC system, the electrical system from the distribution, um the electrical room, the service throughout the building. It's all it's all aged in need of repair. Just those systems alone could
be 20 to30 million. You know, we the those exact systems at the elementary school were $20 million and and it's not getting it's not getting cheaper and renovations are not easier than than new construction. >> Um is that's separate from the major
renovation. There's an additional 50. >> No, that's an that's an alternative project. So I I put that on there sort of as a juxiposition so that we could look at look at it as the options and and the options are start to like start
to build towards a larger project and and have that discussion in earnest or we really would be neglectful if we didn't start putting forth you know major singular projects that actually can't be that singular because when we do the HVAC we have to do the electrical
because it's going to be a a much more electrified system. Um, you do those two big systems, you're probably going to be triggering some codes. You're definitely be triggering some codes for accessibility, uh, and addressing the the elevator and other accessibility items in the building. You're probably
going to be putting a sprinkler system in at that same time. Uh, it just it gets really big and expensive really fast because of what the needs of the building are. And, you know, uh, Latana, you know, she can speak to her her tech needs at the building, but, you know,
their their major as well. and um you know they kind of fit in with the electrical if we're to do electrical renovation, but we're talking millions of dollars to kind of get that building to a level with technology that you know is on par with our with our other buildings. >> Max, this is something you think it's
going to be done in one sort of whole, you know, big old project, not in stages or because once you start taking critical systems down, you can't have students in the school, right? So, this is like a take the whole school down and do this major upgrade. Is that what you're thinking?
>> Um, I don't No, no, not really. Actually, I think I think there may be an opportunity um to do it in phases. Uh because it would be really really hard to empty the middle school. And and >> my knock on question was going to be like now we know what we might need to
keep clocking for. >> Yes, >> that's correct. Max, what are the what are the grant opportunities for renovations? What's the difference between a new building and grant grants for new building and then grants for renovations? >> So, a major renovation project uh is in
the same program with the MSBA as a new construction. It's they they fit into the it's called the core program. Um there's smaller grant opportunities through MSBA for just a select bucket of projects, roofs, windows. Um and now it used to be
boilers, now it's heat pumps. Um the reason we did not seek the MSBA grant program for the windows is that if you are anticipating a core project, you are directed to not submit for the uh accelerated repair projects. So, where
we think there's a a good possibility that there's a core project in the future, um it wasn't appropriate for us to apply for the for the window project. >> But is there no difference in the expected uh reimbursement level new construction versus a renovation?
>> Actually, the re the expected reimbursement is actually higher with a renovation because of the um because of the lack of site work. So, the MSBA formula is extremely complicated. I don't actually know it, but I know a component of it is there's
a cap on site work, and you hit that whenever you do a a new construction project, but with a renovation, you're highly unlikely to ever hit that. So, your end of the day reimbursement rate is actually likely to be higher on a renovation. >> Max, the alternatives that you're
proposing is one, a major renovation, and the other one is the alternate systems. And is there a difference in the reimbursements for those two options? Yeah, the alternate systems is you're only going to get a reimbursement for at
this point the like the the heat if we do a heat pump project. We would say say we did not submit for as a statement of interest for the core program and as a town decided that wasn't the direction we're going to go in, we would likely be looking at the um accelerator repair for
the HVAC system and we would likely eventually be able to get reimbursement for that. Um, but not the not the full electric system, uh, not the not the accessibility, not the technology, just
the like singular um, accelerator repair project. >> Max, can you walk us through the process of putting in a letter of interest? Do you automatically does MSBA automatically kind of tell you which road or which path you can take and what
your options are in terms of funding reimbursement? Is it kind of a one-stop shop thing or do you have to submit separate ones depending on the scope? >> So you you when you submit, you're defining whether you're submitting for the core program or for accelerator
repair. But like as we found out with the Hadley new new elementary school project, you don't actually define uh the full scope when you submit and they they want you to be looking at the different options and be keeping your your mind open. I mean, >> I feel strongly that, you know, we that
our best opportunity is likely for a renovation. Uh and I know that the MSBA actually looks looks positively at that. they they'd rather see you work with existing stock than, you know, tear a building down and put it in a landfill and have this massive expense and
project of of new construction. Um, so does that does that answer your question? >> Yeah, it does. You know, how how close would you say is there like a timeline for when this happens? Is there a certain window of when you'd be looking to submit if you do look to submit? >> Yes, the uh the window opens each
January. We don't know the exact date and then there's about a three-month period. um you you usually sub submit by a point in March um a statement of interest. The the submission is not a super heavy lift. Um we did one you know
seven and eight nine years ago now and um it's it's very doable. I think the big the big kicker of it is that it requires a vote of both the in our case the select board and the school committee approving the submission and
their support for the statement of interest. >> And again, either one of these options, the major renovation or the alternate system upgrade is separate from the window project at the middle school that is already allocated or you know se that's separate, right? So that that's
going to happen kind of regardless, right? Or >> Yeah. I mean, we're so we're designing the window project right now and we will be seeking the appropriation at town meeting that that we have not appropriated funds as a community to to do the construction yet.
>> December. >> Sorry, Max. Um, when is the We have to your point, we've only funded the design of the windows, the middle school. Do we know when we'll have a warrant article to fund the the project itself? >> We expect it in May. >> May. Okay. >> And that would be for construction the
following summer because we wouldn't be able to appropriate in May and do the window project the following summer just because of the the timelines for a project of that scale. But we have to do that project in the summer because it is a >> what? >> So it's another year.
>> Is it not enough? >> So you're talking summer of 2027, correct? To actually do a project that could be funded this coming May. >> Can you just walk me through why if we funded if if we approve it in May? >> Yep. >> So you're saying you can't send out an
RFP. Can't you send out an RFP with the um with the caveat upon approval of town meeting? Well, it wouldn't likely be an RFP. Um, you can do a a bid u ahead of of the funding. You can't sign a contract without the funds appropriated. Uh, but they can't order they're not
going to order the windows until we've appropriated the funds. And you can't order the windows in May and and have them ready for install in July as you know as of right now. There been times in the past you may have been able to do
that, but with lead times it's not it's not currently practical. So, what would the lead time be for a project of this scope and size, Max? Is this a >> Well, it would be implemented in summer 27. The windows. Is that is that is that you're asking about the windows still? >> No, no, no, no. From the time from the
time you order the windows. I mean, these are installing them. >> Yeah. To install them like what's that what's that time frame? What's that? >> Yes. Um, so we actually we interviewed four design firms recently and and had this exact discussion with with all of
them. Uh we're confident that we would be able to install all of the windows in the middle school in one summer. >> Thank you. >> How long right now from order to delivery? >> I don't I don't know the answer to that. It >> It's definitely longer than two months.
>> Definitely longer than two months. >> I maybe just to say it out loud. So if we if we slam this into the special town meeting in December, >> could you get the windows done over the summer? >> Probably. But we don't know the cost
with the with with the certainty at this point. We haven't we haven't designed it. So >> Okay. >> Um >> that's right. >> When will the design be completed? >> The design will be completed at a
schematic level um ahead of town meeting. So we'll have you know cost certainty well in advance of of town meeting of May town meeting. Um, and then the right now, again, we're just signing the contract with the contractor. Uh, so we do have these
dates, but there's still there's a little bit of tentiveness to them. Um, we're anticipating construction documents in Sorry, I'm just trying to remember the It's spring this this coming this coming late late
spring. we've been talking about >> and it's, you know, the window design at the middle school is not it's not simple. There there's actually some really complicated things going on with the facade of the building because we're
dealing with a a 50s building for a major section of the of the building. Um, and they didn't build buildings from a from a water tightness perspective the same way in the 50s than they did in the 70s than they do today. Certainly. So there's some there's some pretty intense
design work that has to happen. Um and and the in the first sort of stage of the project is is actually a a study of the entire facade to understand sort of the long-term uh potential and implications of of the building because
they're aware of our possible, you know, future projects. So that that's really the big one. Um it's it's kind of a tough project to follow. And I I did already speak earlier about both the SHS parking lot
solar canopy and about the HVAC project. So I don't really have a lot more on those right now, but happy to answer any questions. >> I think this this is good work, Max. I think something I'd like if we can get our information organized this way. The
word in my mind is scenarios, right? So there may be a scenario where we have a major renovation and and if that if we if we use that as the first brick in the in the wall, like what other projects would we put around that, right? Or if we decide we're not going to do a a full renovation, we're going to do the
systems approach. Well, what scenario does that put us in? Right? Because we may be able to free up other resources or there may be timing. Um, so maybe we need maybe we can do that for the school projects, but we're also going to have to zoom out and and look townwide at,
you know, certain scenarios. If we decide that we were going to emphasize investing in our schools, that's going to be the priority. You know, prioritization is about what you don't do, right? So, what does that mean we can't do as a result? If we're going to invest in our our our town infrastructure in the DPW, the library,
town hall, the beaches, whatever that means, town infrastructure, maybe there's some scenarios we can put together around that. So, I I I don't know what everyone else's expectations is are for tonight, but to me, this is just an information gathering discussion and and starting to to have at high
level discussion about like what are the themes and what are the priorities that we're going to address address together over the coming years. Um, but at some point, we're going to have to put together you know, if we do X, we can't do Y, right? We're going to have to get to that decision. >> I just have a question about the state
funding. Are we in any less ideal of a position because they just funded an elementary school or is that does it even potentially put us in a better position because they know that we've just successfully done a project and they know what we know, you know, the pitfalls and all the things since they
just walked it through with us? >> No, that's a that's a great question. I don't I don't really know the answer. Um we've thought about it a lot. We're not like in a like a cooling off period or anything. Like we are certainly able to to get back on the horse. Um >> but I I think I think we have two just
like you said, we have two things that are working against each other. They're going to probably look at us as a small community, a well-off community. You know, are they do they deserve another project right away? But they're also going to look at us as an unbelievable partner that implemented a great project. Um, so I don't know exactly how
that kind of shakes out at the MSBA level. My sort of guess is I think it's good to get in because I think there's a real chance they they maybe say no on our first pass and and then we kind of get back in and and tweak it and are that much like smarter with the process
and maybe we you know we get it the second time around. But I don't I don't really know. Is there substantial feedback if they say no where they're going to provide us with reasons why or >> I don't I don't know the answer to that. >> Okay. >> Um
>> I think in the past it was just a no. >> Okay. Um also uh just to go back a slide to the DPW yard con uh new yard construction. Are there costs related to that for like scope design? Anything? I mean, it must
be over $100,000, right? >> Yep. We have >> that's already on the schedule. >> Yeah, it's already appropriated. Uh we have $200,000 appropriated. Uh we're developing an RFQ right now. >> Um we think that we can we can get at
least a schematic design with that. Um it will depend on whether we kind of focus on one site or or looking at multiple sites. So that's a discussion point. But, you know, if we are able to kind of tell a company to like, let's look at this site and and advance that, that would be we'd get more out of that
than being like, okay, we have to open this up to the to the whole town and and look at the different feasibilities of different locations. So, that's an open discussion right now. >> Just to go back to the the LOI situation. So, you said the window is
January. Is that correct? >> It opens in January. >> When does it close? in March. >> Okay. So, being that we're in November, is that something that we should be considering or or talking about in the in the short term? If they rule us out
and say, "No, you're out of luck." Then we can at least understand our priority list to Ryan's point of what we could fund, what we couldn't do, and it's going to change the whole landscape, right? If that's something completely off the table that we know we're not qualified for, we're not accepted into,
right? that changes everything else kind of as it would come into play, right? So, is that the intent to really submit for January? Is that the direction you think we're headed? >> I Yeah, I think I think what I was hoping to kind of spur with this is to
like definitely open up the discussions to that. >> I don't want to put you on the spot. I'm sorry. >> You know, the piece the piece that's missing from this is like the is the financial analysis and I'm not I don't have that to provide like the debt service implications, all of that. like that needs to be a part of the conversation. It was a really really
important part of the conversation the last time around. Um so I'm I'm I'm taking a very facilities centric view but I mean it has to be a layered conversation. >> Thank you. Could you put the application in with
the windows included with also capitalizing the windows just in case it doesn't get accepted? >> Yes. I don't I don't think it really works like that. Like you're you're putting a SOI in for a core project. You're telling them you're going to do
something really big and you don't you can't tell them exactly what that is. So, >> right. What's the response back if you put that letter in 30 60 90 120 days if they accept it? >> When when do we get a response on the statement of interest? I don't I don't
actually know. >> Right. Because if we're waiting a year and a half for the windows, why not include it in the application? And >> well, if I if if we put a statement of interest in and we did a major project and by the time we got into the design,
we hadn't done a window project, um, it would inherently get included. So, I think there could be a takeaway there that the the timeline I talked about on the window project, if we ever were in a position to kind of back it out. Um,
that could kind of work, >> okay, >> hand in hand. I'm not advocating for that. I, you know, I need to look at the condition of the building today. The windows are unacceptable. We need to be advancing that. But there is a consideration years down the road that that that could be a scenario.
>> All right. Cool. Thank you. Yeah, I think we talked about the reverse of that last year, which was like should we go forward to the state for the window project be because what is the chances that the middle school project is going to come to fruition in the next 5, 7, 10 years? And if it's not
going to come to fruition, then we we potentially should go forward to the state with the window project because even if we all want it to happen, like the town's still going to have to support a project of that magnitude. We've unfortunately seen the school projects fail multip more than they've
succeeded in this town. So, um, so I think we talked a little bit about that last year. >> Max, are there any preclusions um, since we started moving forward with the window project already? like do we would we would that get factored in if we did
apply to the MSBA for uh the accelerated uh repair project? >> Yeah, definitely. Um we're we're going down a a totally different track for a window project than an MSBA accelerated repair project for windows looks like. Um so it would be like stop back to
square one. They have a very like structured approach. It takes it's a very it's a lengthy approach that you have to do deep studies it actually ends up costing more like on a total number when you when you work with the MSBA like you you pay less because you're
paying a percentage but their their process is kind of complicated and and layered um and like the project would be a more expensive project on the sum but you know to answer your question more succinctly yeah I would definitely change the the entire process
>> so I think I know the answer to this but If uh if if everybody were in lock step and and ready to vote, what would your where would you see this and the the best scenario at this stage? I think it's really
important that we continue to the design process for the windows. um if we're in lock step and we're, you know, hitting a home run with the process and it's and we we fill out a statement of interest, we get accepted into the program
immediately. Uh we start to understand the timeline and there there is a scenario where it doesn't make sense to implement the the window project. Um I don't know that that's likely at this stage. I think that there's there's so many things that need to stack here. Um
that that's just that's one possible scenario, but I don't think that's necessarily the most likely scenario. So out of all the lists that you have of things that you're presenting from a facilities point of view, this middle school major renovation or the alternate
systems is the biggest, right? So it is it is the one that will dictate how a lot of other things will unfold, right? So it kind of deserves the most scrutiny, the most attention when it comes to decision-m and thought process, right? That's kind of the way I see it. I just want to make sure I'm not missing
anything. >> Yeah, it's definitely the biggest like from a dollar value. I think that, you know, the DPWR is a big project as well. It's just it's just, you know, not as large of a footprint and complexity. Um, that's a that's a big project too though
to just to be fair. >> Max, one of the worries that I have are these little things that come up out of nowhere. Like I'm trying to I really want to have a better understanding as far as in facilities. What else is out there that we need to do? For example,
last spring all of a sudden the track popped up out of nowhere. had hadn't been on anyone's um radar and just out of nowhere we now need a minimum of a million dollars up at a track. What about the turf field down below? When is
that going to get replaced? What about, you know, the fieldhouse? I mean, there's a lot of little things that keep adding up and jumping out onto our list here that I really think we need to have a full-blown serious, you know, audit of what we're going to need so we know
where are the priorities going to go. Yeah. No, definitely. I mean, I'm I'm in the loop on the track field. I mean, we had a meeting just last week or the week before with with um Gino and and Jason to talk about the the fields generally
and um sort of longer term planning. you know, those are they are sort of shared spaces and and sort of shared responsibilities for like the planning and um that makes it a little more complicated as far as like how to appropriately attack them. I mean, keep
in mind like I I'm specifically speaking about like facilities building projects basically right right here. But that's only a piece of the of the larger capital plan. think that's a big part of why or you're having this meeting today is to like think more together and
holistically about how we're approaching, you know, the projects, >> right? But for example, in this project I'm looking and right now we're about to spend $100,000 on a community life study. A community life center would cost what? 60 million. And where would
where does that fit in in this in this picture? So, I'm just saying these are all nice little bullet points we have here, but I really want to see the bigger bigger picture. >> No, I I understand. >> I'm just curious as to why we don't have
um why the track or the um or the turf situation isn't here or isn't on this list. >> It's within Gino's presentation. Perfect. >> I think uh maybe we should move on then to Gino's and that way we can sort of figure out
what we're missing after that conversation. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you, Max. Of >> course. You want a little handhel? >> How does it work? >> You just hold on to it. You just keep that close to your mouth.
>> Okay. I like being in the back. [Applause] Oh, no. I don't know that. It'll be more open last >> for the the track. >> Yeah. >> Years ago when the high school was built,
but brick. There we go. [Music] >> You should see what the station. It was like that all over the station. >> Oh my god. [Music]
>> You want to just work off of that? >> Yeah, I can work off in behind, too. >> We have it in our packet. Sorry. Head home. We're having technical difficulty getting >> all to keep this moving. I think everybody wants to probably get home and watch the Pats tonight.
So, the first one on the list is the DPW facility. We've been talking about that facility as far back as 2005 when I was a member of the capital improvement committee. The time has come. One of the things that I'd like to talk about probably most importantly is we have a
lift that's outside. So for any of our sixyard trucks and above, when you look at the garage for the mechanic, he's outside in the winter time on a a lift, especially when something's going wrong in the snow. Safety issue. It's not
handicap accessible. There's a few issues there. We don't have to beat it anymore. And really appreciate Max, the assistance he's been giving me over the years. And when you look at the number I have, obviously there's a typo between my number and Max's number there. I think we missed a one there.
So, moving on down the list, the next one on the list is sewer main rehab. We have the same list. Currently, we're pro spent close to $12 million when you count the $3.5 million contract we're involved with right now
with cleaning up King's Beach. 2015, the EPA hit us with a consent decree. We're working to resolve those issues. Most of you know we've been working with Lynn most recently at UV pilot we set up. But
this work here is we refer to as IDE work. So this is discharge detection and elimination. So we're going to continue to do that regardless of the UV system whether that happens or not. But that's probably a discussion for another day.
the $3.5 million that I'm referring to right here, it's an SRF loan. We applied for it. We're in the second phase of that. If we do not get the SRF loan, this can go away this year because we're not going to borrow it. We're only going
to go forward with this if we get the SRF loan. We're currently in the middle, as I said, of a $3.5 million project. if it had to get kicked out another year for us to get approved for that. I think D EPA would be satisfied with this is
previously we were doing $2 million worth of work every other year which translated to $1 million a year and they didn't think that was fast enough and if we do three.5 million every two years confident to be happy with that. Water
meter replacement another big ticket item we have down there for $3 million. We last replaced the water meters in 2005. Expected life of a water meter is between 15 and 20 years. We're right at probably the 20 years now. The reason
you want to replace them as meters start under recording after about 20 years. Thus, we're losing a little bit of revenue. Technically, we don't really lose the revenue, I always say, because unfortunately, most of us in the room are picking up for that loss revenue because we end up increasing the rates.
But that is a number we've talked about for years that whether it's this year or next year, it's something that needs to happen. Next one on the list, I think Danielle was referring to this or maybe Marilyn uh replace the track at Upper Jackson. We were aware of some issues at Upper
Jackson in the past and we did cut out sections of them where it's being damaged is from tree roots on the outside of the property. The tree roots are coming in and uplifting the track. As I said, if you go up there now, you'll see that where we cut out a couple of sections repaired.
It's beyond repair right now. It came to our attention last year that uh one of the meets uh referee at one of the meets said that we probably would no longer be able to have meets up there if the track wasn't fixed. So, that's how
it came to our attention. I put a number down there for 1 million because I had met with Field Turf USA and that was the number they gave me. A few other amenities up there, but I think Max has met with a the second contractor we met with may not be as high. So stay tuned
ballpark, right? Yeah. >> Do you know? >> Yes, sir. I know that the um I mean the timing is going to work out for some of these things very differently, but when you're speaking to them, would you mind what you think the advised time horizon is for these items as you go through?
>> Go thing. So, if we go back to if we go back to the top, we talk about the DPW facility. I'd be very happy if that happened in uh FY28. You know, if we knew something was on the horizon for getting that building fixed, fine. I
talked about the sewer rehab if we got the SRF loan. Water meter replacement in the next couple of years. Should definitely happen. The track it up at Jackson probably should be happen this year. We'll at least get the funding this year when the funding becomes available in July. Start working on it
shortly thereafter. >> Are you renting that at all? >> The track? No. No. But it's >> what was the question? Renting >> renting. I'm thinking, you know, where it's a track, but somebody brought that to my attention, too. They said, "Geez, do you know they only have one meter a
year there? Is it really worth it?" But it's used for recreational use, too. You go up there, there's residents up there walking on a daily basis. Oh, >> there probably students using >> there are probably there are probably more students using the track than uh
any other facility that we have more than 100 kids each semester who are in the tracking field. >> And I and I believe it's used for gym as well, right? Fizzed. Yep. >> And it is a beautiful facility if you've been up there, right? It goes around the
soccer field which is in pretty good condition, too. So, >> it's an investment for the town. >> This track one, we also got a grant from the state for $35,000, right? >> Yes, that's correct. Yep. $35,000. Max and I have talked about that. Probably will do some engineering or
some design work, but probably not much more than that. Uh, continuing on, uh, painting the water tower. Ryan, you familiar with where the water tower is? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, we painted that back in 2001,
I believe. So, right now, we inspected on a monthly basis. It's starting to rust a little bit. We need to paint that not only for aesthetics, but to preserve the tank itself. >> What's the What's the life of the water tower? Like, how old is it? And
>> uh Good question. I really don't. I know it's dual walled steel tank because we just had it inspected on the inside. We had some divers go in there, inspect it, but I guess I could look into that for you. I don't know what the life expectancy is. >> That's another ticket replacement if that
>> Yeah, but I don't think it's anything in the forefront right now. I think if we paint it, it will be in good condition again. Next item up is uh the sewer jetta. You can see a picture of one right there. on the bottom.
Sewer jetta is well that's actually a sewer vacuum. Excuse me, not a jeter. I have it written down wrong. Uh that could be used for multiple. We have a sewer jetta right now that we use to free up sewer blocks that would not only replace that because it'll be a combination truck, but it be
used to clean and catch basins. We're mandated by the D to clean storm drains. There's 850 of them in town. We have a truck right now that we use. which has a clam on it. It goes down. Two clams come together and lift it up. That truck is
from 1985. You can imagine it doesn't work real optimally. You pick it up. Some of the debris falls through. We're working on it. You can we probably on a good day can clean 10 catch basins a day. With this, we'd be able to double that easily.
>> So, Gina, quick question. 650,000 for a brand new truck >> for the brand new. Yes. something similar to that, right? >> Can you get them used like the fire trucks? >> Yeah, we've talked about that. I'm not sure you want to get a piece of equipment like that used because it's
probably been abused over the years cuz what contractors are using for now is when they excavate a trench, they loosen up the soil and then they just vacuum it out so you don't have guys uh digging underneath pipes and stuff. But something we can look into.
>> Thank you. Following that up with another big ticket item is the water main replacement MWR interest free loan. We've taken advantage of that over the last 20 years and right now our allocation is $500,000
a year. So we'll be looking to get appropriated for $500,000. But what I've done in the past is carry that appropriation to a subsequent year so I'd have $1 million so we could do a larger project and get a better value for our dollar. Similarly, you probably just seen us. We just finished the water
main project on Atlantic A from it down to the Marble Head line. We also included Beach Bluff A and Palmer Road and that was a $1.1 million project. We're trying to stay on top of replacing the water manes all the time for the obvious reasons to prevent breaks and
what happens over the years in the old cast iron man mains tuberculation builds on the inside of the pipes and that chokes down the diameter of the pipe so you're not getting the volume of pressure that you probably should when we do replace them we replace them with cement line lines so you don't have that
tuberculation building up on the inside of the pipes. Next one is a combined one, non-chapter 90 paven and chapter 90 paving. I've been working for the town for over 22 years now. And that appropriation for
Mass DOT has not changed in 22 plus years. They give us $300,000 a year. And as anybody in this room can imagine, cost of asphalt has gone up. Cost of labor has gone up. So several years ago, we started supplementing that with what we've heard is nonchapter 90 paving so
we can get more paving done each year. So out of that 650 300 of it is a grant that from mass dot >> it's based on roadway miles. >> Yeah. The formula here.
Next one coming up on seaw wall repairs. We've over the past several years we've done a very good job repairing the seaw wall at Kings Beach and to the tune of probably $5.5 million to repair that wall over four separate phases.
That wall is in excellent shape right now. So we've moved on to Eisman's Beach. We skipped over Fisherman's which is you know we're working on the public beaches right now. That wall is in pretty good shape. So, I don't anticipate needing too much work over the years, but the wall at uh Eisman's
Beach is in pretty tough shape. Just put out a contract earlier this week with some tailins that we have from the King's Beach to take care of some of the bigger holes on that. And this 250,000 appropriation I'll be looking for is to finish that wall at um Eisman's Beach. Some people
refer to it as No Beach. Next up is equipment replacement. Last year I came before the capital improvement committee looking for funding for two Sanders. Sanders are pretty expensive, $185,000 a piece. I got the appropriation for one, which I
was happy for. Coming back this year for the appropriation for the second one. The age of the Sanders we have, the one we're replacing this year was 2000, 2000, so 25 years old. And the second one is a 2001.
So, we've talked about maybe leasing a Sander truck, but if we can get another 25 years out of a new truck, I think it's more wise to purchase it and lease one. And lastly on the list is probably the
most important one on the list. It's not a big ticket number when you look at all the other numbers. It's lift station upgrades. We have three 250 horsepower pumps at our pump station, the main pump station on Humphrey Street. And refer 100
horsepower pump, which we refer to as the pony pump. Pony pump runs constantly. So, we're not ratcheting up the pumps up and down. That's brand new. Now, we have to replace start replacing the 250 horsepower pump. I'm going to
probably be looking for 120 to 150,000 appropriation for the next two years after that. This will replace one of the pumps down there. Uh the lip the pump station was turned into a pump uh converted into a pump station from a wastewater plant in 1992.
So you're looking at almost 34 35 years. And those pumps do a lot of work and it's time it's come to replace them. We're happy to answer any questions. Gino, how many pumps are down at the uh at the lift station?
>> Did you mention the number of pumps? >> The pumps? Yeah, that's at our pump station. There's three 250 horsepower pumps and one 100 horsepower pump. >> Thank you. >> And you need 120 this year, 120 next year, 120 year after. >> Yeah, this 120 is for this year, maybe a little more this year because I use an
appropriation from last year for the pony pump to put a $23,000 deposit on a 250 horsepower pump. Is there a difference just going back to the water main replacement? Is there a difference between water mane replacement and force main?
>> Oh, huge difference. Yes. Yeah. >> And where are we with force man? >> Force main we've been working with right pass to come up uh a proposal probably could have asked for this year I guess to evaluate uh force man.
>> And isn't that our most vulnerable spot in our water? >> Yes. In the sewer. >> In the sewer. >> Yeah. The force man Mary Alan's referring to was here at the pump station. There's a 2 and a half mile 24
in pipe that carries all our waste water to the Lin waste water plant here. And if something go wrong there, we' be in trouble. >> Trouble. >> Similar to what happened in the heart. If anybody's familiar with the Linway in the heart, they had a couple of catastrophic. >> Be adding that in this year to evaluate that.
>> Yeah, we probably should. I'd probably drop that. I do have a proposal too. I'll get it on there. I'll send it over to Ryan and Patrick to take a look at it. >> What's the cost of >> that? I believe it was 400,000 in the
ballpark. >> Gina, what's the um what about the seaw wall and any repairs under Hawthorne? >> Good question. Yep. I never We probably should look into that. I know when we had the failure at Mission on the bay, I
brought u uh extreme shock treat over there to take a look at that wall and they said that was in a lot better condition than the mission on the bay sew wall. >> We'll probably do have to add that to the list of few walls. >> Gino, is the cost that you show for the
uh water meter replacement of 3 million, is that like the I know it's an estimate, but is it the all-in cost of a subcontractor putting them in homes? Is not just the equipment? That's right. Yep. >> No additional DPW cost involved in that project. That's not accounted for. >> No. Similar to what we did in 2005, we worked with two different vendors. One
to purchase the meters and then one to install them. Then we got a better value for our dollar that way. >> So Nick, maybe we can ask a takeaway. This may exist. I've never seen it to to see a schedule of all of the assets that
we have in the town. Useful life, end of life, replacement cost. I've I've yet to see one. I'd love to see one. I know you have limited staffing in your finance department, but it's something I think it'd be worth publishing. >> So, that's one of the things that's listed in the policies that we're supposed to be doing. I Patrick and I
actually talked about it today and we've talked to both Bill on the accounting side and Patrick's looking at as well. It's something that we will put together, especially for the discussions that we'll have with your committee, but we'll share with everyone. This afternoon was my first discussion with Patrick about it. >> Great. Thank you.
We do have an asset management plan for our infrastructure, sewer, water, and drain. Uh >> I can I just say I do think a lot of that lives with department heads and it needs to be organized and collated in a way that makes sense to folks that want to look at the big picture. So it's not
that we're starting from scratch. We do have the information living throughout the departments. We need to bring it together. >> Yeah. I mean, like I said, I've just never seen it, so maybe we just need to compile it. We're we're we're we're staring into a a cloud into the future here and I'd like to see a schedule.
>> Um Jino, could you talk a little bit about the turf field if you don't mind? >> Yep. Be happy to. Um we were told at the beginning the turf field would have a probably useful life of between 10 and 15 years. Um most of you know I still do the chains at the football games and all
the referees are amazed at how good a condition our field is in. It's in very good condition. So, I do anticipate we have a minimum of five more years before we need to replace that turf. >> Wasn't there a fund set up to put money
in there each year so that when it comes time to replace it, we don't have to find the money? >> That's correct. >> Where's where's the money coming from that's going into that fund? because we
never see any of that in our annual >> It's coming in from user fees from the youth groups. >> Okay. And is it is it actually on target for replacing the field at the time that we think we'll need to? >> No. And I think initially I know you
were on the board when we were discussing that. I think the hope was to be able to fund 50% of the turf because the only way we could really fund that is to really hit the user groups, the youth user groups with uh big fees, which we decided if we could get 50% of
it, that would be great. >> Yeah. So, when we look out further um in our budget, we'll have to account for that. >> Y forget. >> What about Stacy's Brook? I mean, seems to be two options. Either an outfall or some UV treatment. What are the
Shouldn't that be part of the plan too as alternatives just like Matt said for the school? >> Yeah, I guess the answer is yes and no. There's no way we would either go forward with the UV or the outfall unless we got significant funding from the state or the feds.
>> That's the same with the school from the school. MSBA were getting 40% funding. So I mean just to have it on the plan as a discussion point. >> Yeah, I think by doing all this work we're doing right now we're going to be uh making significant improvements to
the swamps side of the outfall on Kings Beach. That's what the $3.5 million is going towards. >> Can I just add >> to fix the pipes? >> Kleinfeld is going to be before the board, the select board, uh hopefully
next week, if not then the next meeting after that to talk about the results of last year's. I I think it would be prudent for us to think about in an outy year or maybe even the 10 year where it's socialized. We all know it exists but we really the number is even more cloudy than you know Ryan was talking
about with our looking out into the cloudy abyss of uh asset management everything. I identifying what the right number would be is the real problem once we move anything beyond the five years for sure. Even the outy years and the five years is problematic. So we can
definitely look and see both with Kleinfelder's next steps what they are suggesting and then what we may want to do beyond the IDE stuff that we think is making a significant impact on the swamp scout side as well. So we'll take that under advisement and make sure we get something in there.
>> One just back one question on the turf field if if you're done on that. Um, the user fees, are these user fees from like the schools and stuff that otherwise would be going to the school or is it like from ex like third parties if they rented that type of thing? >> I think it's like youth lacrosse and
soccer flag football is on that field. >> So, would these things would those dollars otherwise go to the uh the school department for user fees on that stuff? No, >> those don't go to the school. high school use if he's and middle school use if he's go to school >> the outside groups
>> they're outside groups okay they're outside groups I wasn't clear on that okay thank you little >> shoot you soccer used lacrosse youth football >> okay that are not directly connected to the schools okay thanks >> money's in that account >> yeah between 40 and $50,000 Patrick just
said I texted him >> of a million dollars coming up >> correct >> I mean and that's not uncommon in any community the thought when these were being installed was yes, we'll collect a user fee and it will defay the cost. >> But in reality, it where it's just another way to get back to the same taxpayer
>> because it's a a almost always a user group from the community >> and we try to keep those fees reason as reasonable as possible to maintain and light and do the other things that we do there. >> With some that that number is a little low because we gave youth youth soccer
and youth lacrosse, we were cutting their fees in half because they funded the lights for the field. So, we made a deal with them that they 50% would come off. They would fund 50% of the lights would come off the fees and the other 50% was a straight donation to us.
Just for the track, um, does anybody know how many home track meets we've hosted in at Upper Jackson in the past five years? >> How many this year? >> Zero this year. >> I think it's one a year. I understand that. >> Yeah. So, I think it was >> one a year.
>> In the last five years, I think we had four. >> Yeah. Because we missed one last year and we'll miss one this year. So >> say we're gonna pay $100,000 a year to host >> track meet. >> I don't I don't think that's >> No, I understand. But I don't I don't think that's actually true either. You
know that that may be for the high school for the high school. >> For the high school, but for the middle school I I know the middle school hosts two, three, four meets a year >> um >> as well at Jackson. Yes. Okay. And the unified track team too, don't they host
meets 20 minutes? >> Yeah, I stood up there many times. It's not just one. >> Okay. >> Although it's not just the track isn't just used as a track. So there's a soccer field up there also. So I've been up there for soccer games. Youth
soccer's using it. And you know, even the school uses it. We use >> elementary school. >> The elementary school uses it. >> Citizens use it >> for the turkey track >> this weekend at the track. A lot of people who just go and walk it >> and walk it. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> And and for the vacuum truck, how how many hours a year do we operate the current equipment? >> Well, the current equipment mean and the sewer because we don't >> we clean that thing with what what do we clean with it? Sewer grates. >> Yes. Oh, so the old truck
>> hours wise if it's uh >> you can get that together. >> Just it's just the rent versus buy question that we ask about everything, right? It's like how how much utilization are we going to get from this asset? Is it going to be like the shovel thing that sits in the park lot parking lot for 355 days a year or is it
going to get used every week to because we're cleaning grates every week. I just don't understand how much >> it's a manpower issue too. It won't be used every week but we'll be using it quite way more than we're using the current one. >> Okay. >> I just want to reiterate to just go back and re-evaluate our vulnerability to the
force man. Y >> want to get that more. >> Thank you. >> That I think we'll move on from >> Thanks, Gino. >> Can we go to the technology slides for
capital plan to reflect those? Um, so I think we we need to on a on a tactical level, we need to we need to clean up the the paperwork for less lack of a better term, right? We've had a lot of transitions in town hall time. I'm going to be, you know, up a
creek because I have to actually have it upgrade in my in my department or something like that. And now I don't have anywhere to go. And now we're trying to race through leasing, you know, the the mobile school setups and all other things >> or, you know, I'm not even sure what it means for the library, but if you think
about uh Marblehead when they when Eveith went offline, >> that became sort of that same swing space and >> um no, it became a library for a while. >> Okay. >> Um I don't know what the use is now, but it's it was that sort of swing space.
Right. >> Well, I think it's important to note too that to your point, Jared, um the recreation department has been without a home for a long time and and as well the senior center has been we've heard constant concerns about bursting at the seams here in terms of programming and
what they can allow. So this this opportunity to utilize clock as we're doing right now um will be very telling to see if it can sustain what what's currently happening there and whether or not that fits into what we want it to be long term. Right? So I think this
exercise is is a very valuable one. Um, you know, we've already seen the rec department. I'm the liazison to the rec commission um put forth, I mean, no fewer than 20 different programs for just the month of December that are really, um, gaining traction in terms
of, you know, they were offering things at locations such as Mexicalei Grill or having to utilize restaurants around town because they didn't have dedicated space. So, um, this they now have that. So to see if they can actually capitalize on that is a is a very
interesting um experiment and I think it'll help us really understand what we can do long term. So >> and to Danielle's point, the senior center is just constantly saying they're busting at the seams. They're busting at the seams. There's not enough. And I don't know how much space they're taking
up over there, but I'm sure that they're >> they're probably working hard with Charlotte trying to get as much space as they can. So, it really does take that that um thought process that you said of town departments that need the overflow space. That's really these are two very
valuable town departments that we're utilizing Clark for at this point. So, >> I'd like to speak to two of the options we haven't addressed, the affordable housing and the swing space during the housing building renovations. I imagine
that um to convert a school into a residential facility is going to be beyond our means. >> So I don't know if that's even realistic to consider. >> Just putting that >> I had that same feeling. >> I think when it was originally presented
to give the um authors sort of their due, it was that they would become they would start as swing spaces. There would be renovations and then they would become permanent after. So it wouldn't be all for not. It would be I mean David correct me if I'm wrong. From the housing authorities's position I thought
that the idea was yes there would be some capital investment to create the space. Folks would move out of their current space and then we would have more housing online. >> So >> after >> and then this and so the state would be assisting us with the funding there of
creating new affordable housing there. >> Well, what a developer. >> That's what that was. >> We didn't really get that far. that's been very well vetted, right? I think that's the claim or the >> I mean, I certainly would love to see affordable housing for much more and maybe we could even get to our our 10%
and >> that would be fabulous, but it's hard to imagine that we would just do it ourselves. We'd need help from the state. >> I mean, we've had very good relationships like Michon like you've said um with Benab and as a partner and Pine Street which is coming online. Um,
so I would assume a similar project could go out for RFP for Clark and we Swams Sky has had success in that regard in in taking schools offline and creating affordable housing. And um, I think so long as you know we remain a good partner that that that would be
possible if that was something that we were interested in doing. >> It's just these other things we could potentially do shorter term and more quickly and that would be a much bigger project. Mhm. Yep. >> And and really, you know, one of the
other options on the table was um the school department potentially having to go outside and, you know, solicit other people to come in and and rent the space, right? So, that was a consideration and and to me, what better people to utilize this space than the people in this community, right? So, and
and that was my personal thought process around, you know, letting recreation and the senior center overflow um kind of take over that building because I'd much rather see Swampscott residents putting it to valuable use than having to go outside. Right. That was >> But Danielle, to your point, I would
argue that the schools don't have the the bandwidth, the expertise, anything to be, you know, uh landlords, >> right? Absolutely. So, you know, I I guess my question is how do we get this off our books?
>> I think you vote to give it to the town. >> I think that's how these prior buildings have come to us. So, I think that's if that's the direction that schools would like to go and that would probably be next steps and then that would facilitate um a larger conversation about
>> short-term use long-term use. This being just the beginning of that. >> So, interesting. >> I'm sure that since we've started this conversation at a much more public forum, we will get far more intrigue and
hopefully more ideas to add to the list, but this is just what has come up thus far. So, >> um >> I know there's there's funding for school renovations, but is there state funding for, you know, what we're doing with Clark? I
mean, is there other sources of funds to build sort of recreation community centers? >> It's a great question. >> I don't I have not heard of that in all the um CLC meetings. It hasn't come up.
Um there is through the feasibility study. We can probably find out through the folks that you know they've been working with if if that's the case. I would have thought they would have led with that foot if they had it because that's obviously the biggest hurdle is funding, right? Um
so, but we'll find out. >> I do think the one thing to consider depending on the use would be CPA funding as well. >> Mhm. >> The affordable housing and recreation are two of the options. >> Great point. >> Anybody know when the CPA
committee is going to be meeting? >> It's been seated. It's been seated and I think they are meeting I think Diane >> I'm working on getting a date. >> Okay. >> Probably in the next two or three weeks. >> Okay. >> Hopefully sooner. Yeah. Thanks.
>> Okay. Um anybody have any additional comments? So we're good there. Good there. All right. Well, we will table the last discussion item to the next meeting and we uh the hope was for the next meeting for us to talk
about broad uh our policies and you know if we need to you know keep them modify them change change them in any way. Um you guys could feel free to email your chairs if you have other ideas for second, third, fourth meetings as we move forward.
>> Um but thank you guys very much. >> Yeah. So, thanks to everyone in the uh administration who put together all the materials for today. Really, really good discussion. Hopefully, first of many to come. And I I do want to personally say how grateful I am that we sat through two hours of meetings about capital projects and I did not hear the word
pier. >> I I almost said it, Ryan, too, and I was like, you know what? Give it a rest. >> Open Do we need to? >> So, we opened our meeting. So the select board I will take a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to second. >> Second. >> Thank you.
>> Come. Motion to adjurnn. >> Oh, is Doug still on? >> Second. >> Yeah, he's still >> I don't think capital you opened your meeting. >> Okay, I think you're good. Um, >> we never opened. >> We never opened. Okay, you're good. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you everyone.
Appreciate it.