This is a long break. >> Okay, we will get started. Uh, our fearless leader is not feeling well tonight. Um, so you're stuck with me. Um, welcome to the January 7th, 2026 uh, Swamp Scott Select Board meeting.
Uh, this meeting is being recorded and if you are so inclined uh, if you'll join me in the pledge of allegiance. >> Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands nation
indivisibley for all. All right, we have some very important business uh to start out tonight. Uh long awaited uh fulfillment of two key positions in um
town government. Uh the first is the appointment of our new finance director, Patrick Luddy. Oh, >> might be a name some people are familiar with. Wow. spontaneous. All right. All right.
Fantastic. So, um uh we need to have a vote to uh appoint uh Sir Patrick. Discussion if you are so inclined. >> Motion to appoint. >> Okay. Second. >> Second. >> All right. I guess um any further
discussion? >> Um I do have a couple questions. Not really for you, Patrick, but because um Patrick, this is a new role for you and we also have a new town administrator. When we've hired someone who is new to a
position, we've also had a significant amount of backup for assistance and I think that was with um Eric and his crew. Are we still going to do that? I've spoken to Bill about putting together a proposal that would be focused more on supporting Patrick in the role as opposed to Bill being in
there once a week and working remotely. >> Right. >> So, yeah, Eric and Bill were very excited that this was the direction we were going in after having worked with him. >> Okay. >> And they're happy to figure out what the best way to support him is going forward that makes sense for us financially, but also gives him all the support that he needs. >> Okay. That's what I'm that's my concern
is support for him. >> Yep. >> Okay. Great. >> Right. Because this is wonderful. we're filling this role, but this does seem to create an opening uh for another role. Um so any >> I have a brief update that I can give during the TA report and that way we can move it out of the appointment if that's okay. Sure.
>> But yes, I I can speak to that a little bit. >> So we might not want Patrick to move, you know, >> we definitely do. >> And and I just want to express my enthusiasm um for this uh agenda item this evening. Patrick, you know, you started as an intern and you've you've
worked your way uh up uh the ranks and it it's really been exciting to to work with you and to see you uh to see you learn and and and grow uh in the role and you know, you've saved the town millions of dollars uh with with bonding and uh you know, we really look forward
to working with you and uh and and seeing your expertise continue to build. So, thank you and thank you. >> Thank you. I I would second that. I I just feel like it's extremely consistent, high quality advice and uh
work product that you deliver to us and that gives us uh gives me a lot of faith in you know what we're dealing with. So I really appreciate that and I look forward to working with you in this new role. >> Great. Thank you so much. >> Assuming we all vote, you know. Um so any further ado? Um,
>> I just wanted to say, Patrick, you're a shining star, and I'm not going to speak to it on a financial level because everybody's already done that, but you're an outstanding human. I've really enjoyed my interactions with you. Always professional, always pleasant, always wanting to help. I appreciate that. I'm
excited for you. Um, I remember when you started as an intern, I was still working in the schools. You know, it's great to see that progression, right? And that's what we want. So, kudos to you. Welcome. And I promise we will try not to be too tough anytime we ask you
anything. For me anyway, I can say that. >> So, how many how many years? So, when were you an intern? I I do remember when you were an intern. Was that like six years ago? >> Yeah. So, I've been with the town over seven years now. >> All right. So, you're an old man. >> Flies by. Um it sounds longer than it feels for me,
>> but um this is a really great opportunity and I want to thank the board and the town administrator for supporting this. I know you haven't voted yet, but um I'm looking forward to the additional responsibility and it means a lot. It's very humbling to be trusted with that >> and I'm looking forward to doing a lot
of great things um contributing in new and different ways. So, thank you. >> Great. >> Excellent. Uh all in favor? >> I I congratulations. >> Thanks. Thanks. I just have someone
asked me today um if you were an accountant and I just wanted to just make sure publicly not only are you accountant but you have a master's degree an accountant. >> I do. Yes. >> Okay. >> Very good with numbers. >> Yes. >> Great.
>> Excellent. All right. Um second item, the appointment of our new town clerk. Uh Kathleen Dupont. >> Yeah. If I could just speak real briefly. C Kathleen or Katie, do you prefer? Okay, Kathleen is here with us tonight. She's the assistant city clerk in Beverly right now. Comes highly
recommended from both elected officials and a couple of folks that work in city hall. Um she has over the course of her time there and impe uh not only to you know deliver on the job and work well in elections and all the other uh the efforts of the the city
clerk over there. He's also sought and been completing uh designations that we will be very lucky to have. Uh certified municipal clerk, certified mass the CMMC. >> Yeah, certified Massachusetts municipal clerk. Yeah, >> that as well. Uh so we're we're very
fortunate to have a qualified candidate like this that came to us. She was great in the interview process with us and we're looking forward to having her. >> Terrific. Great. >> Motion to appoint. >> Thank you. >> Second. >> Thank you. Uh any further discussion?
>> I just want to say after looking at this resume, we are very very fortunate tonight. Not only do we have a rock star in Patrick, but clearly we hit the lottery having you come to Swamp Scott. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. That's very kind of you to say. I appreciate it.
>> We have a history of having really wonderful clerks. So, you know, you have you have big shoes to fill, but it clearly it's not going to be an issue for you. >> Thank you. I look forward to working with everybody. >> Thank you. >> Great. Um, well, I also want to thank
Mike uh for stepping in, stepping up as always. Thank you, Mike. >> Amazing. >> Seemed seems seamless as far as I was concerned. Um, so I appreciate that. Welcome. Uh, assuming we all vote now.
Um, if any no further discussion, all in favor? >> I >> welcome. >> Welcome. >> Thank you very much. >> Sure. >> I don't know if you all want to get in or >> Sure. Sure we do.
>> I never do, but I will. >> It's a new year. >> I know. I'm still sure. Say hello. >> Where do you want us? >> We'll be'll be there >> here. You guys waiting.
>> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Nice to meet you. >> Okay, next up, Nick. Town administrator's report. So, um I just
was planning to begin not knowing where we were going to fall originally in the agenda talking about um Patrick and Katie and Mike as well and all the work that Mike has done to to keep us up to speed and and on track throughout his time and uh I think he and Katie will
work really well together. I also he has apparently pulled out some of his hair as well, but uh you can get back to the weddings and all the things that you enjoy doing. Um, I know I said the stuff you enjoy. Uh, and with Patrick, uh, I just want to highlight the fact that
since I came here, he has been acting as a finance director. Any question related in any way to all of the the roles and responsibilities that fall into this new position for him, I've been going to him and darkening his doorstep, and he's been great with answers. Um, and I I want to highlight what you all have said that it's direct, it's informational,
it's not shaded. He gives, you know, very real, very good advice. So, uh, I'm looking forward to recognizing the effort that he has been making through this promotion as well. Um, beyond that, I just wanted to talk a little bit about the last few weeks. Um, had an
introductory meter meeting rather with, um, Thatcher and Marblehead to talk about things that have worked well on the uh, regionalization side for them. Um, you know, ambulance service was one that I think has been a win on both sides. As an example, I've had ongoing conversations with Allison as well. We
actually spoke today to see if there might be any near or longer term opportunities. Uh, and I think some do exist. They're more on the horizon than things that we can necessarily do right now, but um, you know, we're looking at any time that there's any difference in uh, service level or staffing on either
side. Uh, the three of us sort of communicated that we'll keep in touch with one another to see if there's chances both to backfill in the near term, but to look for ways to share services and share resources beyond that. Uh in a similar vein, I had a an introductory conversation with Colby at
the Northshore IT Collaborative. He's the IT director in Danvers who runs the program. It was very informative. Uh pricing and service sounds great, but I asked for a few more details and he's planned to get that to me this week. We'll look to we'll look at that compared to what we have in place, what
we have done in the past and see what might be a good opportunity. I think there's a lot there that could be useful. Um, part of it would be on the town the town hall operations side. The in-person support is where they're a
little less hands-on maybe. Uh, but they focus on having a network and network capabilities. It allows them to to remote in more easily and support the um the the staff and maybe not be so focused on a break fix model, but instead maintaining the services in a
way that will keep our level our service level at a high at a high level throughout. We'll see what the pricing looks like. I'll be back to you later in the year and obviously if it's advantageous, it's something we would look to do um in the near term, not just waiting until next fiscal year because we are currently at will with uh our
current vendor. So, it's a it's something we're certainly looking more into to see what might be there. Uh Patrick and I have also kicked off the internal process with department heads on budgeting. Uh this Friday, they have a deadline to get back to us with uh their expense side budgeting. Looking
ahead, we are putting together the salary side with the idea that next week will be the first sitdowns with the department heads and Patrick and I to go over them. uh that will, you know, give us more information than we had when we last did the very high level projections on expenses and revenue for you all. So, it'll help us to begin to dial it in and
give you more more information as we go. Um, on the police department update, I know there have been questions uh here about hiring there because there's a number of vacancies. Uh I think when I was last here there were um between 15 and 25 candidates that we depending on when we
had had the discussion that had submitted their applications and needed to go through a vetting process and then the interview process. Uh at the as of the most recent update, there were 28 applications that had gone in. Nine were scheduled for interviews and those interviews were uh completed yesterday.
there are a couple of very good candidates uh that they're looking to move through the process quickly to see if we can um get a conditional offer to them if everyone agrees. But the initial board um broad panel interview certainly agree that there are a number of good candidates there and we'll continue to
move forward. I'll also continue to provide those updates both in the written update and here um here in the discussions that we have. Uh we're working through the CBA negotiations with them as well. Uh we have a a couple of more bargaining sessions scheduled just so you all are generally aware of
that. Uh and I also wanted to highlight that officer Caruso received a commendation from Lieutenant Waters for notifying the lieutenant of a person in crisis when he was off duty. The PD responded and rendered assistance. Uh it was outstanding work by officer Caruso for taking prompt action despite being
off duty uh and making sure that uh he supported the responding officers and the supervisor on duty as well. So, I just wanted to highlight that uh community development. We're submitting an application for the rehab of the basketball court at Fellows Park. The land and water conservation fund and
provide up to 50% of the eligible costs for projects and that's something that we'll be submitting this week. Um it's for an FY27 um project and it would also be something that we would probably seek a match from the CPC which I know a lot of folks are interested in going forward
but this is one of the recreation opportunities that might be a good fit in this first year. Um on human resources general update uh as you all know we have the executive assistant to the TA and select board posted. We have two applicants that were moving forward to be interviewed. One was today and
other one is on Monday. Uh we're also continuing phone screens to add to that list, but we continue to move forward in that process. The assessor's position has not yet gotten any responses. This was one that I talked to both Allison and uh Thatcher about. There's not an immediate answer that might work between
the three communities, but we we all see that there may be an opportunity in the longer term uh to share maybe a high level staff person between towns and then have a you know a well-trained clerk that is full-time in each community to make sure they can support resident concerns and also keep the gears running. Uh but that again is not
something we're doing necessarily immediately. We've also had a number of uh applications for the assistant town accountant with um I believe it's six applicants that are in the telephone screening process right now. Uh Doug, you also raised a question about the treasur collector position because we're
sort of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Uh in this case, we had at least one other very qualified candidate for finance director that we did not decide to move forward with that I have had a an initial discussion to see if there's an interest in applying for this. We we posted it yesterday to see if we do get
any responses, but I in sort of functionally I'm already looking at that individual as a finalist so that we can see what the responses if any and then also move forward with that candidate if that's not the case. So that's I just I wanted to separate it from the sort of recognition of the two c the two folks
who are appointing tonight. Uh and with that I'm happy to take any questions that you may have of of items that I did not cover. So one question I have, are we looking past um Marblehead in Nant in terms of collaboration for like the assessor's position? Would we consider some other
small towns on the northshore? Maybe do like a job share of some sort any of those smaller Manchester >> on the assessor position specifically. That's one that I I want to make sure that if we do that the communities are in many ways similar in their
composition. Um the example nearby is Lynfield Wakefield Reading have one. Um and when I actually talked to the TA in Lynfield, they're you know said it's great but it's really personality driven that Victor is >> such a force that that's how it works even though the communities are not
super similar uh in their composition. And when I talked to Victor who is the assessor among those three communities, >> he pointed out the same thing that Lynfield single family homes, Market Street and really nothing else, right? >> Whereas Wakefield is very different and reading somewhere in between. >> Um he suggested if we were going to do
it, make sure that it it it would be something like Nant and Marblehead because the housing stock is similar though not the same and that there are oceanfront properties. there are community there are parts of the community that more that are more accessible or quote unquote starter homes even though the prices are >> significant now
>> um and limited commercial and retail so we can certainly look at other communities but that was why I focus there because both from Hman and talking to Alison we had a similar similar idea as you know we do work with Lynn on veteran services and the dispatch so there there's always different ways to
do it but the assessor specifically we were looking for something that was >> similar more similar Yeah, >> for sure. >> Does that answer your question? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions for Nick? >> Okay.
>> No, the only thing I I would like to see the schedule for the police because you're saying the the interviews are already completed. >> The the panel interview that interviews are >> that was completed yesterday. >> Yeah. So, if you could send us update on as far as what are the next steps,
what's the anticipation for when they're going to get into the academy? >> So, yeah, we're not at the academy level yet right now. It's getting the ones that folks want to move forward from that list, >> right, >> to interviews that would be with the chief and myself and Maryanne, I believe.
>> Right. Um, so at this point I know that there were I think two that everyone agreed right away would be great to move forward and they were working to schedule something as quickly as possible. I'm happy to give the update as we go for sure so that you all know where we are in the process, but I wouldn't be able to tell you yet, you
know, when I think the next academy we could even try to get into would be in March. I don't know where it's located. So if it's a Western Mass one, it might be something that we would even wait for the April one and have them work somewhere on the department now. And so on the fire department, when they're hiring a a new candidate for the fire
department, they can bring them into the fire department right away. On the police department, they have to go through the academy, but is there any chance that if we hire can we can we hire anyone and have them work the phones or work the desk? >> I believe there is, but let me confirm that for you. And I know with the fire,
they train them up on several core competencies before they put them uh and that's been a process that they've engaged in there for 40 plus years. It was actually a question I had for Graham last week. So, it's the only reason I know that. So, I'll definitely talk to Ruben about what those opportunities are to have someone on board um so that
they're sort of looped in and hooked in with the organization even before they get to the academy. >> Great. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh next item, public comment. Is there anyone here for public comment? >> Great.
>> That's right. Scaring everybody away. >> All right. Excellent. Okay, moving right along. Uh the next item on the public agenda was a public hearing. Uh we have um we're actually going to be delaying that until our next meeting is our next
meeting. >> The next meeting will be the regular meeting is February 4th, I believe. Yeah. >> Because the 21st will be the tri board. >> Um >> Yeah. Right. Okay. >> Do we have to um do we have to make a motion to continue the public hearing
onto that date? I mean, when we when we made a motion before, was it a motion for the specific date? >> Let's do that to Sure. Just so take a motion. >> So, I'd like to make a motion to extend the public hearing until what was the date? >> February. >> February 4th. >> February 4th.
>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I I >> Great. All right. Uh, next thing up, uh, is a discussion, update, and possible vote on the Pine Street improvement. Did I ask to jump to solid waste because Marzy was going to join us for that and I think
she's setting up CPC and not yet here unless that's her in the hallway. >> No, she probably because they're not starting till 7. >> I know she was checking on the technology. >> There she is. >> There she is. >> Hey, we were just about to talk about Pine Street. >> Oh, great. >> But we can we can let you settle in and
we can take another item first if you want. >> It's up to you. >> Let's do solid waste. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, we'll move along to solid waste contract update. So, yep. So, Wayne and the team on the solid waste advisory committee have been working way
before I got here and have continued to work very hard. And we also have Brian who is from Melrose, but D, right? We have we have a grant through D to has have his support. He's working with the cohort of folks who have open contracts this year as well. So, has been very helpful in sharing information. Wayne's
going to give an update on the work of the committee with the idea that we want to get some feedback and direction from you all so that we can move forward. Um, and I'll give a little bit of update on sort of where Gino and I are with this when you're done if we want to start there. >> And I understand we're doing 10 minutes with them. Is that the understanding?
>> Roughly. Roughly yet. >> Yeah, we have like eight, seven, eight slides we can move through >> with the idea that there's more time for discussion. That that's the hope if there is any. >> Okay. Hi. Um, thank you very much for uh having us here. Um again we have Brian Walsh. He's our municipal assistance
coordinator for Northeast Region 2. Um and so thank you for coming. >> Yeah, happy to be here tonight. >> Um so we last presented to the select board back in April of last year. Um the solid waste advisory committee had come
up with some uh strategic um some strategic thoughts and ideas that we wanted to see investigated and implemented. Um through that period of time a lot happened. We had a three-month uh trash strike. Um and so
we got started um in August. We put together a task force to develop a request for proposal and uh joined the community cohort with other communities throughout
Massachusetts that are also working on their contracts at pretty much in the same time period. And that's where Brian comes in and has helped us greatly with that. So uh just quickly the first bit of this is kind of explaining the the
role of the task force. Uh it uh is is put together with a a wide variety of community. >> Can you go to the next slide? >> Y next slide. >> Sorry Wayne. >> Of course. >> So it's put together through uh a
variety of uh community inputs. uh uh myself, Gino, uh Nick, Mary Ellen, uh Kathy Mick from SWAC, Eric Schneider from Finance Committee, N uh Natalie Swanstrom from DPW and her expertise in procurement management, Jeff Fawn from
DPH, uh and of course Brian. Uh we received since the last time we talked an 80hour inind grant from the D uh which is uh useful pretty much for consulting uh and Brian is is our consultant by default for for that. So
he's uh been able to work exclusively for that time period to to aid us in this uh in this work. Um next slide. So just kind of the the highlevel big picture review from what we talked about last April, right? Quick bullet points
are obviously landfills are closing, trash is being exported out of state. We figure within the next 5 years about 90% of that trash will be exported. Um other than the two or three remaining incinerators that we have in the state, there's no room for it. So right now our
trash is currently being railc carred to let's say South Carolina I believe by Republic. Um second high level bullet point is that haulers are mostly going automated. >> So the and that and that's really for
both safety issues and profit by the companies themselves to reduce the uh of course the labor cost but uh trash hauling is one of the most dangerous professions um in the US at this point. So um what that unfortunately does
fortunately and unfortunately if depending upon the way you look at it is it it threatens the operation of our current hybrid operation pay as you throw or otherwise known as PAT. And so as we know that's the 135gallon cart plus the blue bags, right? We call
that hybrid because the town has uh provided residents a baseline level of service and any uh excess contributions to the trash stream is paid for on an asne basis. Okay. So as as we spoke about the
difficulty is having an automated truck which comes in with some people probably know from other communities comes in with a fork lifts it tosses it back move on to the next residence. What we're trying to figure out is whether or not that can be combined with
a bag. Currently Republic is not offering that option. So we have we're going to talk I'm going to talk about that in a little more detail in a few minutes. That's the issue for there. Um okay. So our recycling
contracts since the last time we did it in 2015 to become increasingly more sophisticated across across everybody in the country, let alone just us and Swans Sky. Um we're going to have a requirement for material audits and recycling contamination
determination. As we know, we talked about last time over the last couple years, we have no understanding what our current contamination level is and what the current makeup is. Okay. So commodity price sharing should be explored and in order to understand commodity prices or should in order to
understand contractually what the value is of our recycling stream we have to understand the proportion of it and understand how that fits in with what it's worth in the markets right as well
as what the um the MURF or the materials sorting facility will be able to offer us in terms of sharing any revenue that comes from that. And lastly, of course, organics diversion, which has been, you know, as you know, currently composting. It's uh certainly I know has the
attention of the select board and something that we we want to uh take into account at the contracting level. Okay, next slide. So, what have we done so far? We've we're having we meet every two weeks at
this point. Um we started in August as we formed the committee uh pretty much as we're in the middle of the strike. Um it was difficult to get a lot of energy behind it also considering we were also at the time un not knowing exactly who the future town
administrator would be and what his or her potential um thought process would be. So, but what we did do up until that point um is that we prepared a legal analysis which was included in a report that I forwarded to you. Kathy Mick did
a really wonderful job at putting together line by line and discussing kind of in a in a in a format that we could then compare to new contract highlighting the issues that we need to pay attention to. the advantageous right now just the advantageous parts of the
individual aspects of those of that contract and things that we should be aware of moving into the future. So um we also prepared a pretty sophisticated list of vend
vendor interview questions um that was researched both with the cohort um and thoughts behind some of the challenges that we face um and how those uh uh kind of trying to be able to differentiate between you know if we're interviewing five different vendors being able to
differentiate between you know each one of them relative to the variabilities that we have for our own town. We also differentiated between primary and secondary service levels. And so when I say that, you know, primary is pretty much what's covered under the contract, right? So trash and recycling, but
there's a huge long host of other responsibilities that we have to manage. Everything from household hazardous waste to mattress recycling, bulky pickup, um the compost program, right? and a list of other things that we have
to keep aware of as they both affect the residential services, right? Affect costs. It it's even though it's not in sight as the again the level one services, it is critically important to
the services that we pro uh provide to the rest of the community. Um we also had an update and evaluation from all the town directors. So that would be Max and Gino. um regarding what are the needs for the larger contributors.
So if we look at the schools, we look at the individual town buildings, they are major contributors to the trash stream. Um we want to make sure that they're right sized, not just going forward to what we have from 2015. Um we also research capital expenses. Um we're going to need new recycling
containers. That is not a small amount of money. It was something that we will have to discuss. The board will have to discuss. Nick will present, I'm sure, in the future, but it's something we just wanted you to be prepared for. Um, we've been working on a skeleton RFP format
using examples from other towns. Thank you. Thankfully, to the cohort that we've been a part of, we have access to other contracts and other examples, pricing, and so forth. So, we're not doing this in a vacuum. Um again talking about the importance of a material audit
and um discussing um oh the option of a paid second barrel as an option. So for frequent users of excess to be able to give them an option and it falls in
particularly well with the fact that we have a potentially fully automated system. Next slide. Okay. So quickly right now as we know one container and an overthrow bag. Now why is that important? It was critical
to the fact that we have dropped 18.4% from our 2018 levels by 2024 numbers 125 numbers are still a little tricky because we had the strike. So we we're going to come up with some way to be able to report that. But without that
change that we had in 2020, we would not be here just based upon the change of residential behavior and how they diff and how they were able to move to more diversion out of the waist stream. So as
we talked about, you know, this is creates a level field of service. Uh but the bags require a manual operation by the current hauler. Um of course automation threatens to disrupt the hybrid situation. So it's critical to interview new vendors to understand how their operations can offer us a
solution. There's a lot unfortunately that we don't know and what I want to stress is that we want to we want to be wary of projecting what we know now as the only way to go in the future. So it's that
interchange is really important. Now trash service is exempt from 30B which means that we are of course allowed to be able to have those individual interviews in a in a internal setting right so that we can we can negotiate strategically.
Um but new thinking is going to be required right whether or not that's a sec you know what that that fee may be uh for a second 35gallon container um and even such if you know it would be preferable and this is something to have
deliberation on whether or not how do we continue if we if we just offer two barrels but we they don't have that option for an extra a lot of communities have have a transfer station. We do not we've not
needed a transfer station. We were very small functionally, you know, in terms of geography. Um we floated the idea of what you know after the summer when we saw we could actually drop off trash. Oh, we never knew we could do that. Actually, it works smoother than we thought. Maybe there's an option of a,
you know, weekly micro transfer station option. I'm not saying that's a recommendation, but it's something that we've discussed as a possibility to be able to offer the community. Of course, that would have to be paid for through fees through the bags. Again, that has to be investigated. Okay. Um,
next, please. Organics. Um, so solid waste advisory committee has has tried to offer additional solutions. We've been asking for additional
physical locations. you know, it is a wellused and well-loved resource to have the public composting bins. Um, but unfortunately it's expensive. And the reason it's expensive is because the hauling costs that we already pay for
through our contract, right, don't transfer to Black Earth. Black Earth is a really marvelous company. I have not a bad single bad thing to say about it, but just the infrastructure costs for Black Earth to do their job costs twice to two to three times as much for both
individual residents on a per pound basis. So what we've seen is that other communities have been able to implement organics and I'm not saying necessarily compost composting but there's other things that can be done organically to
get it out of the the waist stream through the same vendor that they contract with and that is something of high interest certainly that I think could offer the town benefit right by combining some of as well as the I'm not
saying that I know this for a fact, but it's a hunch and something that I certainly want to investigate is that if we are railc caring, right, a million ton a million pounds of trash to somewhere in the Carolinas versus being able to transfer organics
locally. Is there some net savings? This is something that I think is worthy of investigating particularly as we have pretty good control of our waist stream, right? because we have the 35gallon and I think it would offer
potentially a a a a nuanced option to even having the need for a second overage bag if we can offer composting on the same day that we offer you know communitywide as the trash pickup. It is just something to investigate.
>> Just to just for clarity sake please. >> So is that require a second >> barrel for the composting? Yeah. But so we're the the individual is doing the separation. >> Correct. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Correct. Um it comes down to
what the vendor can offer the programming that they have um and price. >> Okay. unknown and these are part of the interview and RFP process >> but it does exist locally that type of >> we know and Brian you can speak maybe more to this but we did reach out to uh
Hamilton and Winnham they are contracted through um >> Cassella right that they have >> the only ones that do it right now >> okay >> so I leave that as kind of a feather as a thought >> as as something we've been considering um so that's that covers that piece of
the uh slide of organics. Okay. So, um recycling bins. Um this is this would I think certainly a area of deliberation in terms of the service level that we want to offer the community. You know,
currently we offer unlimited recycling >> in a variety of different self. We have no restriction necessarily on the containers that the individuals use. If we go to fully automated, clearly we're going to have a requirement for a
standardized container. >> So conventional wisdom is do you go to a 60-gallon cart, a 96gallon cart? And then the next question is, is there a savings to the community if we can reduce our hauling fees by going to
every other week by offering a larger container? And I think I mean this is certainly something that we are going to be asking in the interview process. It becomes a question to set policy which lies at the select board level and I
think it might be a reasonable idea. This is a suggestion as we talk about this in in in public view. You get feedback from the community as to budgetary service levels
the and and and the re-education timeline that we would need to have to go back to the community to explain and you know what changes are going to come as opposed to we don't I think one of the things we learned a couple years ago
is just flipping the switch is a difficult thing to do right >> if I could just jump in Please >> the in the conversation with Republic with this as an example of a change in service that they had with communities. Reading Watertown were the two that they mentioned that have done it recently. They went to the 96gallon container kept
weekly and spent a full year the first year of a 5-year contract with the education explaining how and what it would mean that was different and how people should be thinking differently about. So this would not be to I just want to underline what Wayne said like something a change like this would not
be a rip the band-aid off July 1st. Mhm. >> A change like this would be we would ask for maybe four years of the every other week pricing and one year of >> maintain a high level of service away. We're all used to getting it now and we will really socialize and educate the community on why and how we're doing it
going forward if that was the policy decision that was made. >> Have we ever is there any experience with um state grants for recycling bins? Have we investigated that? >> Yes. >> Um previously there have been federal grants. Mhm.
>> And there have been private industry grants. >> Um, federally that money, yeah, I don't have to go much too much further. It's not it's not widely available for for these types of programs. Um, there is a private industry grant that has historically been able to offer upwards
of $15 per container. Um, it is my understanding, and Brian, you can certainly weigh in on this. I don't know how much longer that program will exist or does exist. >> Okay. that would be through the recycling partnership grants. Last I've
spoken to them, they are somewhat phasing it out and focusing their attention elsewhere, but they are still accepting applicants for it. Uh, and then as for state grants, the only the um there's no explicit grant for recycling carts right now, although
using uh the recycling dividends program funds uh an eligible expense is recycling carts. um the purchases based off the t how much Swamp Scott gets per year and the size of the purchase of carts. It wouldn't be a huge dent in it,
but that's one eligible um place to use uh recycling dividends program which you guys earn points for with things such as your pay as you throw uh program. >> But just I mean just for relative amount that's around 14 $15,000 a year. It's it' be a small impact and that money is
actually used for other things within the budget >> of the recycling program. So I >> that said it's it's >> it's a conversation that needs to be had but it's not an insignificant amount of money. money can be potentially financed through the vendor, but generally the
cohort and other communities D recommends that we end we do own them >> and so that however at the end of the day owning them as opposed to that's again another conversation. Um maybe one thing to add recycling in a
separate sense is historically and the next grants will get released uh next couple of weeks, but there's also not a curbside option, but sometimes grants for curb for compactors. You guys don't have a transfer station, so it might be difficult, but so there is some some drop off equipment grants are typically
offered yeartoear. >> So in other words, if our DPW yard had, you know, this is the cardboard recycling bin, this is the you know, I don't know what else we >> Yeah. So for example, so yeah, if you want if you were making that switch to every other week recycling, perhaps having more diversion options at your
Yeah, exactly. >> So So the cost impact we looked uh we looked through combi um you're looking at around $60 per container at the at the large quantities that we're looking at roughly 5,000 residents. It's not
>> 300 grand. >> Yeah, it's not an insignificant amount. Just something in your budgetary process and the capital allocations just to be just to be aware of. Okay. Um, next vendor interview process. Um, so I I'll let Nick and Gino maybe if you
want to elabor, you know, kind of give us a little more detail on that, but just to kind of highlight um the cohort as recommended doing an interview process to note and understand what we may not know and what opportunities there are to improve efficiencies
internally to us. And one of the things that we recognize is that Every town has a slight different variation. >> Nuance. Yeah, >> it is nuanced, right? And so, yes, we can talk about Marblehead and and Swanson. You know, Marblehead has a transfer station, right? It's a huge
>> difference >> impact to how the contract works. Um, so that said, you know, that's why it's important to ask those individual questions. Um, again, the old contract is favorable to us. Um, but we just
don't want to be in an information silo. Um and so I did include a list of questions that we developed in your packets just to be familiar with and um >> yeah I'll let you comment further the the interviews that we intend we've
spoken to Republic um and sort of going forward Wayne is as we talked about in the meeting welcome to join but we're trying to schedule it around Gino and I in our work days so we'll see who from the solid waste advisory committee will be in there, but we have Republic Waste
Management, Cassella and Capital. Um, and then Wyn and G Melo disposal. We have gotten feedback from different um, DPW directors on some of them. Melo is one that, you know, may or may not be
something we move forward with based on that feedback. But everyone else, we're we're looking to have those initial conversations and understand, you know, where they are in something like automation. Pretty much everyone's going there. you know, two years ago when other communities were looking at it was a little bit more >> of a not a question, but there were
opportunities out there to have manual um in more communities. The initial conversation we had with Republic was, you know, there would be a period in which they would be preparing from a capital investment standpoint to have the trucks and everything, but they are not offering five-year contracts that
have manuals. So we really I think we can anticipate that everyone will be in a similar boat either automation from day one or automation at some point early in the contract and for the rest of the contract um for all the reasons that Wayne outlined. So those those conversations we have, you know, I think
four or five of them will be complete by the end of next week and we have two that are outstanding that we're trying to schedule. >> Um and so this is to understand what they're offering, understand, as Wayne said, things that see around the corner, things that we may not be thinking of and don't know. um and it will inform the final process. This is outside of
the 30B procurement as well like legal services so that um we can have very direct discussions on price and service uh from the beginning and with everyone. So uh these are informational meetings and really useful and you know we will go from there to finalize an RFP to get
a price proposal that we can as as well as possible compare apples to apples. Is the automation likely to yield a lower cost? >> I would say it's a cost avoidance. If we were to somehow find someone that could
do manual, all of the other costs around the hauling and tipping continue to rise and this would be a differentiator, not in the, you know, in the grand scheme, but in sort of >> you were, you were saying it is almost like there was some issue with the fact that people were all going to
automation. I just wanted to make >> a lot of communities when they initially hear that are concerned that it's, you know, a truck with an arm picking it up and it's not the trash man that they see and may know over time. It's a change and so we wanted to highlight it to make sure it doesn't come as a surprise to
anyone as we move forward in the contracting. I think there'll certainly be a change in terms of resident socializing the whole issue of making sure that residents know whatever the requirements of the vendor are right in terms of location relative to the curb
spacing between all those things. So, and it'll and that's a process that each vendor would take on with us. It's not something we'd be doing in a vacuum. And if you're driving through Lynn, as an example, you can see how they line up and how the separation everything else. That's a good example right next door that they're using it already.
>> So we don't know definitively out of any of those contracts what the decrease has been or the cost avoidance ratio is. >> We haven't even asked from that. It it's looking forward what do you offer and it's we we will not offer manual in the
case of republic and my expectation and belief is that if we said to others we want a price for manual and a price for automatic we there would be a difference in price that we could articulate to you >> and and Wayne so thank you and certainly thank you to the solid waste advisory
committee for all the hard work. Um I know you guys have been at it for what four years? >> Five years. >> Five years. five years. Um, one of the things I >> think about that myself. >> Yeah. One of the things that you keep that that you've talked about over the years has really been uh glass in the system. >> Yeah.
>> So, can you speak a little bit more to Yeah. You know, whether or not we can pull the glass out, >> maybe use that maybe have a maybe have the DPW as a transfer or Yeah. some other process to really get that tonnage down. >> So, yeah. And it I'm happy to talk about
that because it is I thank you for bringing it up. Um, >> let's limit it to 20 minutes up. >> Yeah. Okay. So, so just just kind of to reset the table for glass, right? So, up until maybe last year, glass was we paid
to haul it, we paid to sort it, right? Not only does it degrade the quality of the recycling material from a commodity standpoint, that's frankly not our problem particularly, but up until last year, it was going right back to the landfill. So that's,
you know, that's not a really good efficient operation as you would obviously obviously imagine. So what we did find out from Republic last year is that they were they found a place that was using it as aggregate for concrete.
Great. Right. They still have a loss, but it's not at the loss as to what it would be as a tipping fee back to a landfill. So, we're strategically trying to figure out, well, if we can get it out of the system
altogether, great. What we can't do, unfortunately, is throw it in the trash because it is a waistband item by the state. we'd probably be possibly better off if we did just from a financial standpoint because it's the heaviest piece of all of it, right? On a from a density
standpoint, one of the things that I certainly think the audit will reveal is how much glass we have, >> right? And and that will give us some criteria of what the impact is. You know, in a perfect world, and I brought this up with Brian asking for help and
and particularly from a regional standpoint, we meet every couple of months Brian holds a meeting with all the different Northshore communities and it's really nice because we can talk about what our common issues are and what's going on at the state level and so on but it's a common problem across
every everywhere. There is not been a state there's no one really at the state level that's helping. We're kind of on our own unfortunately to be able to to figure out a solution. So yeah, it's it's I think it would benefit the
town contractually, financially if we could find a different way to divert glass. And that really comes down to asking the question to the to to the to the not to the hauler, but whoever the holler is taking it to, >> right?
The haulers repres represents them, which is what are you doing with glass? And you're going to hopefully see, you know, if they actually have a home for it, right? and a direction for it that that will reflect in hopefully our tipping fees based of course upon the audit that says that we have this percentage this percentage this
percentage. >> Um so >> so this audit you've been referring to >> who does that when does that happen? Sounds like that has to happen soon. >> Great question. Yes. Um, so the audit
that's so the the audit functionally is you take x amount of of of samples of the recycling stream across the community. You drop it on the floor, you take it, you weigh it, right? It's really that straightforward. But there's eight or 10 different categorizations of what that is, right? Everything from
cardboard to glass to three different types of plastics, right? Different colors of plastics, different colors of glass. It gets detailed, but at the end of the day, we need to know before we pull the trigger and pay for an audit, I feel it's important that the
vendor has to say, "Yeah, I'll accept those numbers," >> right? Because otherwise, I mean, >> it's going to be for no good. >> It's not inexpensive to do. And I just we just want to make sure that the vendor themselves will honor whatever that number is based upon the pricing
because their their entire financial proposal is >> based on >> based on that. Right. >> So so an example of a community again reading went through a long process to develop an RF RFP. They ended up staying with Republic. They did an they did an
audit. uh in speaking to their assistant TA or TM, she was saying that they accepted it as part of the they all did, everyone that replied to the RFP, but also said that they would be doing their own analysis and audits throughout the first two years to make sure what was provided
matched >> with obvious discussions if it didn't. So it is it's something that's important but it is because of the blended values being different now that it's not just we get something back for recycling and the economy around that has changed they
are also more attuned to it than perhaps they would have been in the past. >> How much did that audit cost? >> $25,000 I believe in reading >> their grant there are grants for that. >> It's it's also an allegible expense for recycling dividends program funds. >> It's the same bucket of money that
>> same bucket that we're going to use anyway. >> Yeah. A lot of straws in that cup. >> Yeah. I And I will I will say a good one. >> Something rare about Swam Scott that I think would make us audit advantageous is your contamination rate is kind of a
strange very high holdover from back in the time when uh audits weren't that relevant. The pricing the commodity structure around recycling was very different um when we were shipping more of our commodities out of uh out of n
our nation. Uh so 30 so right now I think you guys so you kind of have a 30% contamination rate it's a fake numberake where that were that to carry over into modern pricing mechanisms you guys would be paying close to double sometimes
quadruple what other towns are paying in contamination. So that 30% would definitely be something >> 25,000 is worth it in a way because it'll it should drive down our cost a lot to get a more accurate number. >> Yeah. >> But I have to think that the companies responding are getting a little smart to that. Right. >> They've always probably been smart to
that. >> That's right. So what really is the value of it? >> The number of contamin we get a monthly >> contamination >> number, right? We get a report back and it, you know, it comes always as contamination 30.0000%. It's the just >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> But you know, it would be valuable because if we don't do this audit, then we're going to be at 30%. >> No, not necessarily. >> Well, you're stuck with whatever. It depends if they if these new contracts if they'd still want to honor that 30%. or if they you'd come in and say that we're not going to do that. Even without
an audit, even without an audit, the 30% is high. That that's far above state average >> 10 to 15 10 to 15 as low as as low as five in communities. Um >> I would think you still have to get them to accept the numbers, right? And if they all say no, then you >> if you don't do the audit, then you have
to just hope that they just say, "Oh, the average around here is" and they you start that. So, so one change from an execution standpoint, right, that we have to be aware of is right now there is no um penalty. Most communities have penalties, right?
So, if they see high levels of contamination rate, it's generally put into the contract as to what that that fee reciprocity, whoever you want to call it, is again, we currently don't have that. Now, the communities that do have that also have an active
employee or somebody on in the system that's actually going and auditing >> recycling police. >> So, in other words, if you're recycling XYZ that's not that shouldn't be recycled, you're getting a fee back, right? You're getting assessed X >> dollars for >> at the macro scale. Yeah. So, what what
other communities do is they have an you know, recycling manager >> this it you know, one of their responsibilities is literally go kind of do a micro audit around around town systematic level and then give the oopsy stickers
>> to them as as a community reminder. >> And just broadly as far as staffing for this goes, the >> it has been within public health, we have had conversations, Jeff, Gino and I, about the fact that it would likely
make more sense to sit within DPW because of the bandwidth that exists in staffing there. So, I just wanted to highlight that that's something that we're already exploring that may, >> you know, provide the potential to have someone that could occasionally >> or occasionally be out to do that type
of coordination or choose a neighborhood a month or something. >> Um, but we're trying to balance that to make sure that it does have the support that's needed. >> So, are you saying now we're going to see Gino going through our recycling? >> Yes. >> I have a question. Are there any
communities in the Commonwealth that do remove glass from their solid waste? >> I'm not sure of ones that explicitly remove it as in say we're not accept we don't want you to put glass in the recycling because it's all single stream typically. Um there is some for example
Bedford for example will have a glass a very effective glass drop off at their transfer station. is similar to the other diversion opportunities. So that is there is pulling glass out of the recycling stream >> but they have a functioning transfer station. >> Yes. And they and they they divert it
outside of >> and then they they get and they get a higher value um and they divert and they sell it for more than it would be worth just >> that's part of the >> So wouldn't we be able to structure an RFP with give us a cost for doing this right for removing glass from our
weight. Couldn't we specify that in an RFP to see >> in terms of removing it as we're talking about diverting it with a physical location? I'm not sure that that's realistic for us in terms of space at the yard. Never mind like a physical location to have
>> collection is a challenge for us, >> right? >> But didn't we actually I'm sorry. Didn't we actually kind of show that, you know, if you had a once a month, whatever it is, bring your glass >> for whatever we get out of it, it's it's better than nothing, right? I mean,
>> you could have one dumpster there. I mean, whether or not it's Republic that's picking it up or whatever. I mean, is that not >> on the metal on metal drop off day, you're saying another, >> right? Yeah. Why couldn't you do that? You already have your path in place. >> Right. Right. >> Just a thought. You know,
>> it could work. It's something I never considered to be honest with you. But yeah, we already do styrofoam. We're doing metal. >> The one thing I would definitely say is it has to be monitored. We can't just have a drop off site without it being monitor. Yeah. >> Right. Because that's the one thing I learned when doing the recycling for the
12 weeks >> because I shouldn't say it's because, but my interpretation is because they have a smaller barrel, people try to get rid of stuff with their recycling. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> That was what I was actually about to say. >> Yeah. Was going to say it in a nice way. Yeah,
>> but just for the purpose of, you know, when you're structuring an RFP, I mean, >> if you have that in there, maybe that rec, you know, they recognize a cost savings with the rest is a submission, right? That's just a thought. >> Would you then obviously take out the extra expense of the sorting, >> right? It would just be a direct
transfer to or we can find a place. >> Maybe there's a third party somehow that >> Yeah. >> And I can connect you with Ed. Before we get too far down the road of boutique model, I would like to part of why I wanted to have Wayne come in front of you all tonight was to get some highle
direction so that when we're having these conversations, we're obviously learning, but if we're moving into an RFP or drafting of any kind, you know, I think my initial feedback to Wayne back in October, November, whenever the first one I was at was at the same level of
service or better >> and we are not price agnostic. So, while we would love to have compost, we would like to have glass drop off, we need to understand what those costs look like because we are very sensitive to the overall price. And my number one
priority is that, you know, 99 out of 100 homes that get their trash out at 7 a.m. >> the barrel's empty at the end of the day and could pull it in. like that is our and I I'm happy to take redirection from that, but from a sort of customer service standpoint and a price standpoint, it is one of the most
significant expenses and certainly one of the most significant increases we anticipate between this year and next fiscal year. >> Um, so we just wanted to get a sense from you all like in prioritization like is compost and diverting glass super important or is it a nice to have as opposed to
>> must have. I'm thinking of it more will it help us decrease cost, right? So, I think it's kind of twofold. Yeah. >> So, I don't think it's more like um one of those nice to have extras. I'm I'm speaking of it as will this help us offset cost >> if we did that. Would it lower the
>> Yeah, that's my thought process there. My number one thought my number one priority is I'm really I can't see an option where we would not allow people to buy a second barrel. I don't think that's even a for me that's not even a question. >> It was a double negative.
>> Okay. We we the option of purchasing a second barrel should be an automatic for us, an automatic consideration. >> And that that was the first discussion Gina and I had with Republic. If we're fully automated, you're talking about hybrid. If there's any bag floating around >> and it was absolutely and they recommend
if there's, you know, frequent flyers of that program. >> It's a a barrel that covers the cost basically. >> Absolutely. >> And it replaces the bag and they just have two barrels at that home. Right. There's certainly and I we had use cases and you could see it around the holidays. There is a point in the year
that we certainly have to figure out what that looks like and how to do it. But the the real meat of it and >> 50 weeks out of the year it's if you're a frequent flyer, we need you to do the second barrel, not >> find a way to support that. >> Totally >> use case that's, you know, 250 out of
5,000 homes. One and one thing to note there would be to uh maintain a pay as you throw program. Uh that would you would want to have an annual fee beyond just the initial purchase of the barrel that will be >> one of my perspectives is you guys have
been such a waste leader that 20% reduction is one of the best in the in the state over the last four years. So finding ways in this automation to to maintain that and uh if you look example of Topsfield recently went to that exact program I think they are doing $175 for that second second barrel. So the
pricing is a whole another thing. >> Well, we're doing it we're doing it right now and just not provided barrels. So people are buying multiple bags and then the bags are sitting on top of the barrel or sitting on the So by just saying it it should equal whatever I think each barrel really holds two bags.
So whatever two bags cost there over 50. I think we I think we can come up with some proposed algorithmic numbers that make sense in terms of you know >> the fair share of whatever it is that >> Mhm. >> basically if you're using if it's a
service >> right >> how much does that service addition cost and be responsible but the resident should be responsible for whatever that additional service >> just the fact that we're offering it is important. >> Yep. So just from hearing what you two at least had said it's make sure that we
are offering these things that may lower our cost and are also advantageous from a environmental standpoint that we're separating but composting but all of these things it's weigh them in tandem not we just must have compost or must have diversion >> it's how do these impact your proposal
that would lower our costs for the community or avoid costs whatever the phrasing that someone may want to use to describe it is that an accurate representation >> yes I mean for me from my perspective it's and how do we lessen the burden a little bit on the resident, right? If they're going to have to pay for it, at least there's a convenience, right? You don't have to go out, you don't have to
go out and buy blue bags. You have the option of buying a second barrel, which is more convenient for you. >> I mean, it's obviously at an additional cost, but providing that option is okay. You know, >> my thought anyway. >> Yes. And just want to make sure that the
the sum total of that isn't it's a nice cherry on top, nice to have. We'll worry about it as a secondary issue within the negotiation, but I would like that the the composting and the glass be kind of center in terms of our ability to kind
of drive down the tonnage. I don't quite understand the mechanics of nor do I think we need to get into it right now. But there is a dynamic here. Some people uh they might want a second barrel but you know for doing automation we can figure out a way like wenham or
whatever it was where the second barrel is their compost thing. Does that then obiate the need to have a second barrel but now you're getting this instead. So I think there's a lot of you know work that needs to be done to kind of push that agenda within the conversations so that it's not you know just take the
simplest path and then oh hey can you throw the compost? I'm not saying you do that, but >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. It's important to have that feedback. We're trying to kind of reset the table, >> share the share, >> you know, just from an advisory standpoint, sharing what we know to this
point. being able to come back now that we've kind of everyone's kind of all reasonably on the same page, being able to come back with what some of those opportunities are, get further feedback on a more regular basis, you know, increase the uh cadence level of um of our communication with you over the
coming months. >> And I won't say it's like my personal requirement or anything that, you know, a hill to die on, but I really don't think an every other week recycling schedule is that advantageous to most people in this town. That's my personal thought. I think recycling should be a
weekly thing. Okay. >> Right. Because I just don't think that enough homes in Swampscott have that storage capability, >> right? If you don't have a garage or you don't have somewhere to store it, I mean, I think of what I recycle on a weekly basis, it's a huge big blue plus one, right? And that's a week. >> So, I don't know. But that's just my
thought is in ter because I know you mentioned maybe going to every other week for recycling. >> It's a much larger barrel than we have for trash right now. But that would that is something that they've suggested as a way to again >> Wait a minute. Are we talking about trash or recycling? >> I'm talking about recycling. >> I was just comparing it to the barrel
that you all have >> in your homes currently, the 35. >> Mine is mine is bigger than a regular trash barrel. So, people have different sizes, right? I know. >> Even though they have the small one that's a that the one we give out is a small little guy. >> Um, but if you look around or draw, you know, drive around on a weekly basis,
you'll see >> people are recycling. >> The most expensive part of the contract is the hauling part of it. Yeah. >> So, the the opportunity to reduce cost there >> Yeah. Yeah, >> it's not insignificant. >> Sure. Sure. >> And it it that could certainly take a bite out of the extra $300,000 of
capital cost that we need. >> Yeah. >> Just I'm feedback feedback that we're looking for is a I think a >> and I think we'll see that more as we get further along. But that's just my initial >> Okay. We should probably see the options. Yeah. You know, ideally >> the cost. >> You know, one thing I really want to see
is I want to see a timet on, you know, what our benchmarks, not benchmarks, what are >> deadlines. the calendar. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> What are the what are the dates we have to hit? >> Yep. >> And so we're already in January. It's quicker than >> pretty much it because we're done with
this contract the end of June. >> Yeah. >> And what date do we want to have a new a new contract in place? >> Yeah. >> Just just a just a timeline that's all. >> So what happens come July 1? Does service end or do we are we do we roll
over monthto month? How how does that >> So they are interested in obviously staying with us. They would >> they have expressed as of right now that they would prefer we're signing up for five years with them again. >> So that's an ongoing discussion. >> Okay. >> And we can just have Gino do it again,
you know. No, I'm just I'm totally kidding about that. >> Thank you. >> Um yeah, we'll come back. I think it might be useful if we were to provide as part of your packets the calendar or something like that so that you can have the information even if we don't have another discussion of this step necessarily in the immediate term and
then we can plan to come back with the advisory committee later on if that works for you. >> Okay. And also just so the public knows that the solid waste advisory committee meets once a month. You have public comment. >> We always have public you know engage with anybody that wants to come in and
chitchat. >> Absolutely. We c we definitely welcome public comment and if there's any questions the community has um you can email swac swack swampscottna.gov. >> Great. Thank you very much. >> Big thank you Wayne. Wayne
wants to do it. >> Thank you both. Thanks for coming in. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. >> Thanks Brian. >> Thanks for anytime. >> Appreciate it. >> Okay we will go back to our discussion of Pine Street Improvements. So if I could just frame it to start, we have had ongoing discussions with Gino
Marzy, uh the the DBH team, consultants on both sides and ZBA. Um >> DBH is the neighbor. >> Yes, sorry. Sorry. The housing uh developer. Um and we've come to a point where we just want to give you an update on where we believe the conditions will
be um as a part of the the ZBA potential approval. Um and it's been shifting just from last week to this week. So I thought Marzy could give an update on sort of where we are just again so you all are on the same page in the end. I don't think we'll need this is aformational update and any questions you may have as opposed to any action
from the from the board. >> Can you just start Marzy with just like kind of where we're at process overall like where is the ZBA and the overall process? >> Absolutely. Happy to do so. So good evening. Um I just wanted to acknowledge that we do have members uh from the
Benet Brit team. Uh we have Susan Gdelman the executive director. um Yara Vir, she's the uh project manager and I believe Holly Grace was there. I'm not sure if if you see her there. >> So, just wanted to acknowledge their presence. Um so, first maybe we'll start
uh way back when. Um Benet Brit um is the project developer as you know. um they submitted a an application to the town to the uh zoning board of appeals for a comprehensive permit um that would allow or request the construction of 41
units of affordable housing um at Pine Street um called um >> Veterans Crossing. Thank you. Um so that process began on August 20 22nd. Um the first public meeting of the zoning board of appeals regarding this project occurred on September 16th. uh ZBA as
part of that process retained a um a consultant or an assistant to sorry uh retain a consultant or an assistant to allow them um um to assist them with the process because as you know comprehensive permit um is something that's very well regulated by by the
state. It's a state statute that uh we need to comply. The local zoning board of appeals has 180 days to complete the process, meaning that they open the initial meeting and they have to close within 180 days. Um then after that they have about 40 additional days um to
render an opinion or a decision regarding um the project. Um so just to kind of walk you through the process, we have had about five meetings right now or the ZB8 has held about five meetings. Um the 180 days will expire on February
18th and the ZBA should render a decision by March 30th. So that's based on the timeline, the 180 days and the statute how the process should should follow up. Um so as um Nick has stated
um ZBA has been working uh with um a consultant as well as a PR consultant. the town was able to retain um Vicki Mason with Gino's assistance to really assist us with um review some of the engineering work um as part of the the
process. Um they are working for the town, but the developer is paying the fee to review the project. Uh Vicki is somebody who is probably known to all of you. She's a former town employee and and has amazing institutional knowledge about the infrastructure um that
surrounds the the project area. Um and at the last ZBA meeting um the ZBA um had some concerns about the um the the replacement of the culvert. Um as you know the the culvert replacement has to
take u take place in order for the project to um to be constructed. um the town or we had worked with Benet Brit Housing to secure grant funding through the one-stop program from the state um for the relocation of the culvert. We
were successful in the grant where we received um $750,000 to um towards the replacement of the culvert. Uh the estimates that we received from the engineering firs firms were about like 7 750 sort of around
that that that price point. Um the estimates for the project also included some contingencies, engineering fees, um uh remediation um work as well as uh professional services uh for uh as a for
consultant. Uh so that total number came in at um 758 >> during the ZBA process. Um the zoning board of of appeals wanted to assure that the town that there's sufficient funding in order to be able to to relocate the culvert and they were
concerned about the fact that they did not want the town or they wanted clarification in terms of who is the entity that will be responsible for any cost overruns. Uh so that sort of brought us here. We had an internal discussion. Um we continue to um you
know look at the numbers in terms of um the estimates but obviously estimates were based on previous um funding but at the same time we have secured um or we had allocated um about $123,000 in contingency fees as part of the grant
application. Um so we feel confident. I think Gino had an opportunity also to take a look at the um the estimates and I think that we all agree that right now that there is sufficient funding um to address the the concerns from the zoning board of appeals. Um the the developer
um stated that they would be able to contribute some funding towards it. U so last week we weren't quite sure what the amount was. Um this week uh we have heard from from the development team and they would be able to contribute up to $100,000 in additional funding um as
additional contingency or as a match if needed if the project were to the cost if there will be any kind of cost overruns. So I think that's the sort of a brief update of where we are the process. Uh we will have a next ZBA meeting will be
held on um January 20th. So Nick, per our conversation earlier, if you just want to frame this up like we is is a vote necessary from us for us tonight. Nope. >> And um and then um >> can you or Marzy just frame what the
understanding was in the initial agreements with Ben Breth about whose responsibility this would be? Are we starting from this was unknown or was there an understanding to begin with which we're now specifying further just trying I have no idea what the LDA says
in >> all right so so I'm sorry I should say probably before we we go on to the uh um sort of like how we almost maybe maybe got here is that um at the last meeting last Friday we have um held the meeting uh with the project team and an up here
reviewer um and um the ZBA just wanted to see assurances where you know there would be an agreement in place that would assure that the contingency is there that there are some some funding over overruns uh to to cover any um additional cost and that's where our
discussion came in about either anou memorandum of of agreement um that the developer will pay for for the uh the cost overruns or if that could become part of the u the u part of the comprehensive permits and a condition
that would stay that developer will pay, you know, up to x amount of dollars, like the $100,000 that they're agreeing to pay or any cost overruns. Um, in regards to kind of going back, the relocation of the culvert um initially
was not part it's not part of the um um land disposition agreement, was not part of the lease because at that point, if you recall, when we were looking to have the four-story structure, the massing of the building was a little bit bit less. And maybe at that point, I'm not really sure if we knew what the impact to to
the culvert might be. I think that there was some discussion maybe that that the culvert will have to be relocated, but I think as the project advanced and there's additional work that was being done and then the structure was uh redesigned to be a three-story structure. Therefore, it impacted the
culvert more and then we needed to that needed to be um relocated. And on the question of action tonight, when we were unsure if we would do anou, which at one point was where we were leaning versus the idea of it being a condition of
>> the permit, >> correct? >> That was that was when I wanted to make sure that we had the the ability to vote if necessary so that clear direction could be provided. And I think in the past uh in talking to the chair a little bit she had mentioned on something like this there were sometimes like two
members designated to say like we all agree on the idea but these two members will be responsible for the final review or something along those lines. That was the type of thing we were thinking. that's no longer necessary because in these conversations we're talking about as a condition of the permit and then also highlighting for the chair of the
ZBA and the board itself that this is something that we are tracking on a sta on the staff side you know as they move through the building permit process and everything that's where community development and Rich's team are in close contact to say all these conditions have been met we can't move forward or they have been met and we can so this is
providing more certainty to the CBA that on the staff side we're paying attention And I think both the developing development team and us are comfortable with this number based on the contingency contingencies built into the original um grant application and the money that they've pledged should it be
necessary uh beyond that. >> That all sounds great, but is it theoretically possible that this could come in at a million total and the contingency and the 100,000 wouldn't be enough and then therefore what >> theoretically possible? I couldn't
really answer. That's a accepting the premise that something could be any cost. Sure. Yes. >> Okay. Well, not any cost. Well, I mean, it's >> I think >> we have we have a conservative >> um engineering estimate that was put together reviewed by the peer review team and both the
development team and our staff are on board that we think we're on target. >> That's great. I don't know what more we can do with any development project than have peer review our outside consultant and our team internally looking at it. I'm not >> I understand but I'm just
>> there is a bidding process. So I guess to answer your question we won't know definitively until we put it out to bid get the bid prices back. Mhm. >> But as Nick said and we all said, I'm fairly confident that we're going to come in at or below that price because Hancock, who did the estimate, he was
conservative with that, built in a contingency, and now we have an extra $100,000. So, but definitively we'll know once we put out the bid and the town's going to be putting out the bid because the grant came to us. So, it's essentially going to be our project to oversee. Mhm.
>> Is it normal for the ZBA to be involved in the finances on the permit? I just don't remember like things like this coming up with the ZBA and and um excuse me with the
Westcot or any other um I have not experienced that. I think that um a lot of times they might look at the infrastructure and request some changes um that that would impact the project. Uh but >> right so they'd make a request for a
change on the infrastructure but >> yeah I can speak on the the Avery I can't speak on the Westcot because I'm I don't even remember familiar with it but I know on the Avery project on Essex Street ZBA did come in and say we want
the developer to give the town a $50,000 >> for improvements to the area for the town to use at their discretion >> and the developer agreed to Right. Well, hold on one second. So they Right. So they did do that for the Avery. They actually for the Concordia
they the Concordia the ZBA asked Paradise for additional monies to uh beautify the sidewalks with landscaping and things like that. But this is a little bit different to me. They're asking for an MO. They're asking
forou. We already have an LDA and a a ground lease signed. So I'm >> so when I spoke to Heather Roman because I am the liaison to the ZBA. Um I don't feel like I don't think she was requesting anou I think it was a suggestion. I think that it was just an
assurance for them um to understand that if there is an overage they were you know checking their box and doing their due diligence and saying if there happens to be an overage do you guys have the money to pay for it? Where's it going to come from? Right? So now that we know that um it it really is just like solidifying that the developer is
on board with providing the financial assistance which I think is 100,000. You just said that's correct. Um I don't think she was necessarily I thought Heather was really great and I don't really think she was suggesting or demanding anou. Um I think that was just you know something that could be done or
maybe had been done in the past that she you know was familiar with. I don't know. Um but I don't feel like she was forcing that issue >> that I don't think she was forcing and I think that was one of the options that was looked at as they've had this and that's why we've gone from that idea to now as a part of the condition of the
permit. >> Okay. I have another question here is um I'm concerned about the time frame only because I know the funding rounds are coming up and they're coming up soon and I went and looked at our original scheduling and it looks like funding
rounds start at at the end of February, possibly in March and if you're saying there's a possibility ZBA will have their their comprehensive permit you know completed by 3:30 isn't that putting us in risk of not getting
funding in this first funding round. >> No. So maybe I can just go back a little bit more. Um we have been working um sort of in between the ZBA's meetings um the project team are um our town staff as well as our peer reviewers. We have tried to address any kind of outstanding
issues that were identified during the during the uh the ZBA meetings. Right. Um, and I feel like coming into the meeting into the the January meeting right now, it seems like we really addressed most of most of the the concerns that the ZBA has had. Um, um,
we just met this past Friday. I felt like we had a great meeting. Um, the the engineering team is providing some of the uh the additional uh backup data that was requested. Um, and I'm not sure if if you had a discussion with Heather. It's >> I did. I had a lengthy discussion with her on Sunday and I don't feel like she
did not give me the impression that there was anything um significant holding it up or that there would be any difficulty. I mean she did we did talk about the culvert in the the relocation and an increase to the water line or the size of the water. >> Yeah. And that's something else >> which is also has also been discussed
with with the with Benet um at zoning I believe. Yeah. >> So, I don't think from, you know, from me, I spoke to her for a while and she did actually summarize it in an email as well that I did send to to Nick. Um, I don't feel like there are significant things that that zoning is concerned about that would delay it.
>> Is there anything is there any possibility of expediting it, getting it going a little quicker? >> At the end of this month, I believe. >> Yes. But just to let you know, in order to kind of expedite because that the the meeting or the public hearing should close by February 18th. Um and then the
the the March deadline is the time for the ZBA to issue its decision. This is a uh you know a very um large project. So some sometimes writing the decision could take a little while while longer. um the chairperson um has authorized the
consultant that's helping the ZBA to work with the attorney for the developer to really uh try to get all all the facts that as as you read the decision there's a lot of sort of like um information basic information or project information that has to be included uh because most of the decisions are
several pages long. So they already are working on they'll work work on it to asssure that that all of the facts are already in there that both of the parties agree on them. Uh and then this way we could expedite the the decision the issuance of the decision. So then um the we could start the the 20day
>> to uh comment if you wish on on any of this. >> Is she here? Y >> so I'm Holly Grace with the neighborhood housing. I work as a project manager. Um so I first of all thank you Nick and
Marzy for facilitating us being at this meeting and we're grateful for the time you're spending on this and um I guess part of it was trying to keep momentum. We are feeling like this project has a lot of very positive momentum um not
only in the permitting process that's underway but also on the financing front. So um I think Marzy summed it up pretty well tonight. We are comfortable with the thought of
having some I'm assuming a long uh comprehensive permit decision by the ZBA in um including a commitment for us to uh fund up to $100,000 in overruns for
this whole work among other conditions that they impose. It's our preference that our legal agreement with the town is the one that already exists, our um LDA, our land development agreement that
we have with you town. Um so and it's our that's our guiding document with the town and we are have been making a lot of progress and working diligently to be able to make this vision for 100% affordable senior veterans housing a
reality. Um, we're grateful for the partnership with the town and also thankful for the opportunity to give you an update tonight. So, I think it's been consistent. Timeliness is very important
also. Um, and we are threading the needle a bit because the state funding deadline for this upcoming round, I believe, is March 13th, which means we need to submit a full application, including our final approvals with that
application. Uh in December, we submitted a free application to the state agency EOHLC, the Executive Office of Housing and Livable Communities that allocates the funding that we need. Um
we have not heard back from the state whether we are eligible or allowed to submit a full application. We are acting as if we are going to be able to and then our permits will be in place by then. Um, and it's our hope that working
with town staff and um, the town's consultant that we'll hopefully have a pretty good draft decision that the ZBA should they feel comfortable could vote on as soon as they feel good about it.
So, Holly, to Mary Ellen's question, I is it really critical that you receive a full decision from ZBA before that March, mid-Marchch date you just gave.
>> Um, it's my understanding that it's a threshold condition to have I guess zoning in place. So, permits in place >> and finalized. So this round for funding is highly competitive. There are many
developments that are proposed across the state for affordable housing. So we're competing. We think we have got a great a great project and readiness to proceed is a strong criteria for the state. So the ability to prove that we have our comprehensive permit in place,
the expiration of all appeals period and it filed with the town clerk. I believe those are the steps as important. for the state to see so that when we get the financing allocated to us, we can close and begin construction as soon as possible. >> But you don't need all those steps, the
appeal period and all that to be done by March, mid-March, right? Clearly, that's not going to happen. >> Well, this is this has been the So, >> am I missing something? already. >> Well, it's it so it look it looks it looks like we've got a problem because
with the dates that Marzy's giving us and with the dates that Holly's giving us, we're two weeks out. >> So, they go ahead >> I believe Mary's dates are the outside dates. We've discussed the possibility with the
board and they seem open to it to have some special meetings outside of our typical monthly meeting schedule. >> So, we're working with a mix of optimism and pragmatism on this and hopes that we still have a a spot to compete in this
year's funding round. So, Holly, if Holly, if we if if you guys are to miss uh the funding deadline of March 13th uh 2026, when when would the next funding round be?
>> Um there's a >> I don't think we would qualify for any round. So, I think it would be a year because we don't have we wouldn't have eligibility. Why? Why not? >> The state funding round is a yearly
process. It's either issued in February, it happens to be later this year, March. Um the state does sometimes have what they call a high readiness round for special projects that for one reason or another get invited. It's really out of
our hands. It's really up to the state to invite into any round, whether it's the winter round, which is the one we're talking about, the 2026 winter round, or any high readiness type rounds that they may at their discretion initiate.
So, don't know the answer, but the answer could be that it might be a year. >> Okay? Okay. But if in the event that it's not a year, there's there's the potential that you could that that there could be a round, but you would have to be specifically invited. Just just to be
clear, >> right? >> Do you always have to get invited into these rounds? >> Okay. No, we have to I mean the um the state funding process has a pre-application
and then as a result of in every round there's a pre-application which is a screening process for the state and then as a result of their analysis of the pre-application we would you know developers are invited into the rounds.
So, what I'm hearing from Holly is that you're in communication with the ZBA and the ZBA is open to having additional meetings or trying their best to accelerate this whole process. It doesn't look like there's any major hiccups going on here and that it's just
a pretty tight schedule. Am I right? >> Yeah. But I I'd like to understand more what the >> Let's work backward then. Like just to be clear, what's the appeal time frame? >> 20 days. >> 20 days. >> So, it's a it's a standard once a once a
decision uh once a planning board or zoning board of appeals decision is filed with the town clerk, it starts a 20-day appeal process where that during that time the the developer >> is that from the day of the vote of the CBA or the the the detailed opinion is
made public. >> When the opinion is made, >> it's filed with the clerk. So it would be most likely the morning after the decision is completed. You know, like if the zoning board >> the detailed decision will be available the morning after the vote. >> Well, they're working on this.
>> So hold on. I'm I'm saying if they were to approve the final decision that they are currently working on with both the uh attorney for the developer and our consultant. >> I'm just saying it wouldn't the the clock starts when it's filed with the town clerk. That's all I was saying. So
whenever they finish, if they vote on it, it wouldn't be at 8:40 or 8:04 on Wednesday night. It would be Thursday morning the clock starts. >> I know, but isn't it even more than that though, Nick? Because they vote on whatever, let's say January 30th, then they got to write up the opinion, >> right,
>> which is what they're working on now. >> I understand. You think it's going to be ready the next morning, the opinion's going to be completely ready. They're voting on 100% the opinion's completely. It could it could be fairly uh fairly quick because we already identified the
um sort of contingencies or or issues that we have had. We have a a chart with those items that they could just be plugged into the decision. But but we're really trying to address most of them outside of the the ZBA process and this way there are there are not a lot of
contingencies. >> Okay. >> All right. So the opinion, so the expiration for the opinion is 218. That's what you're saying. >> The 218 is the is the u end of the uh
public public meeting process. So we have 180 days for the ZBA to open the meeting and to close the meeting. So ZBA has to by statute has to close their public process or public comment period and the public meeting by February 18th. But they could do it earlier. No later.
Correct. They can do it earlier. >> Yeah. So that would be 118 days right now. 188 180 days is on on 218 based on when when the >> Has He Heather said has Heather Heather said anything like we're looking like we're going to be able to finish this on
115. >> So I would I don't I don't have an answer to that, but I would caution that this is well within the control of the ZBA. So these are sort of questions that we can be asking, but it's their responsibility and right to do what they would like. >> I think they've been very good partners
in helping us to prioritize and identify issues that they would like addressed and that's what we've been working on. I just want to make sure that we all recognize that this is part of what you know they do on behalf of the town. >> Yeah. But what we do on behalf of the town also is making sure project gets done. So that's why I'm trying to really
understand the timeline so that everybody else who's watching this can understand the timeline. And what I'm hearing is it's a tight timeline. >> Yeah. >> And I I just want to have, you know, of course I appreciate the ZBA. That's a very hardworking committee. Very very hardworking committee. Um I just want to
have a a pretty good idea. I don't want to be So I just want to say um I am happy to reach out to Heather again and talk to her. >> That' be great. >> Um as Nick, I'm sure you will as well to um help facilitate. I I really do think um she's been a great partner and so has
the whole ZBA. I don't have any concerns about it. I spoke to her on Sunday as I said um as Marzy has also concurred. I don't anticipate I will remind her of the deadlines um and I'm sure she's well aware but I will certainly remind her of
the deadlines that Benet is facing and you know this has been a a long process. We know clearly what what our directive was, you know, from special town meeting. I don't want this to turn into a political issue, right? This is something that's been decided, a project
that we're moving forward with. Um, and really, we're all on the same page. So, I don't I don't see the need to make it um adversarial. I don't think it is. And I just ironed that out and make sure that there aren't any hiccups. She was very good about letting us know what they were um concerned with. And it was,
you know, very fair stuff. And I I really feel like she will come through and that the ZBA will come through and do what they need to do and do their due diligence that they're required. >> I don't think there's any issue with that, Danielle, whatsoever. I think just the the dates that were presented, you know, in a couple of our minds made it
start to seem as though we had an issue and so we're just trying to clarify that. >> Yeah. And that's why I'm saying it publicly because I I want to do the same thing. So, >> um, so if it's okay, I'd like to return to the the actual issue here. Um, so I'm I'm still a little bit confused about
why a major expense about moving the culvert is something that wasn't addressed in the LDA. Like I mean, what would we have done if we couldn't have gotten a $750,000 grant to pay for this? I mean,
it's great that we did, but it's it's I mean, we we knew this had to happen. I'm a little confused about that. Well, this this is a project cost. The good part is is that um the Commonwealth has um several programs um that assist communities with infrastructures and
especially as you know that the um the the Commonwealth has uh I don't want to say you know like not incentivizes but really encourages communities to to build affordable housing. Uh we all know that we need affordable housing. U there are grant programs that assist us that
assist um communities to to reach those goals. And one of the the grant programs is the onetop and that really assists with infrastructure improvements and um the abilities to you know to to to build um affordable housing or just improve the um the conditions the housing
conditions within the Commonwealth. Um for us this was a um a program that um you know is available to um to the community. So when the ground the the round of funding was available, we have worked with u the staff from Benabit to
collaborate on the application to really assist the project as as you know affordable housing that's um it's very expensive especially now what's going on in the building industry in terms of terrorists the the the increased cost of constructions and then just even some of the the site conditions that we have in
here. So if anything else, I mean the town, the select, all of you have been amazing um to work with the developer. I think that uh you know in the you know spirit and the collaboration of creating affordable housing this was a a grant
that was available and you know luckily we were funded. So now we can you know >> that's the point though right there Marzy. Luckily that's what I don't I don't get. Um, still I I understand all that. That's all wonderful, but
>> is was it a it's not a surprise that we had to move the culvert, right? >> So, I don't understand how like or did we always just assume that we'd get the one stop? >> I think the the one distinction I just want to highlight, I wasn't a part of it, but that Marzy identified in the beginning was the original footprint of
the project within the site was different than it is now. >> Yeah. We approved the the footprint that it is now with the LDA. So it wasn't like that was Yes, that was two steps ago. >> And I understand your concern with the
fact that we did move forward without it. I I think for the purposes of this evening, if possible, we did get it. It is an opportunity for us to make sure that when we're looking at anything that comes down the pike in the future that it's incumbent upon me and the staff that's here obviously, but
me as the person that's responsible for them that we are taking into account all of these things so that we're not having the discussion of where we have an LDA, we didn't get the grant. What do we do now? In this particular case, I don't know how far down the road we can go with the the three parties that are
here, me being ignorant to it and even the folks from the development team, we did get it. In this case, we have the money to do it and we will make sure that in the future we are not moving forward without addressing it in the LDA or understanding where that funding would come from. I I just I'm not sure
what information we can provide to you that would give satisfaction to the question, I guess, is >> okay, but it doesn't mean I can't ask the question. I mean, it's a huge expense and a major piece of the project that it's making me scratch my head a little bit like how did we miss this right now?
>> I think that's the key. It's it's us. It's on us that we missed it, right? Because it's not on Nick certainly wasn't here. >> I wasn't. >> So, I it kind of that is a good point. What What did we miss, right? I think we were so concerned with getting the project moving that did we miss or did the design just get changed?
>> But we prove the design rate that it is right. So >> I'm not suggesting you can't ask the question. I was just trying to say that I think the answer is a a way that we can improve our process. >> Absolutely. >> And it's sort of yes and like I we did get it. I don't know how you want us to
address what we would have done if we didn't because it's not a scenario that >> we definitely have to implement something in the future where that doesn't happen. Right. >> But Marzy there there there was a similar project I believe right around the corner on Boon I believe that did
qualify for a for grants. I think we qual I think there were there was there was grant work for >> our sewer infrastructure improvements there as well. >> No, the buon place the the >> we applied for the >> a grant didn't get it. >> We did we did we did not get it. >> We did not get that one.
>> Okay. >> Okay. There's another round of funding that um we already started to discuss um to um to try to secure funding to um to work on the um on the water lines within the neighborhood to really support like you know >> to increase the size of the
>> Exactly. Yes. >> Does that include the Boon area? >> Yes, that would include the the entire >> So we're going to we're going to go after those >> Yuri >> I'm sorry. >> We're going to go after those grants. >> Yes. And and that round opens up in um later in January. So Gino and I already had started to have discussions and
>> that was al also a consideration for zoning. They were concerned about that and Heather did express that she discussed that a little bit with Benet on one of their recent calls. Am I stating that correctly? Bene is there you guys do knew you knew about the waterline situation right?
>> Um so the viewer viewers focus on all the infrastructure in the neighborhood and that connecting to the development. So sewer water unistorm water has all been under their um review and very I'll say very
thorough review. They've been um >> very detailed on your behalf. >> So we're responding and providing more information and making sure that they and Gino feel comfortable >> great. >> Thank you.
So I you know just just one of my thoughts is I know that grant applications are now coming in front of the select board typically on the consent agenda. So we're seeing these as they're being applied for. But I think maybe getting a you know quarterly update or some type of just some type of
update as to where that where that's progressing because right now we're seeing that we're applying for them but we're not necessarily seeing >> the outcome >> the outcome. >> So I think that would be helpful for for me certainly. >> Okay. and and we'll definitely do that. Um we'll do both. You know, obviously we submit some grants that were very
successful with um and we share in the success, but there were quite a few that, you know, we do submit and are not funded. So, we'll make sure to update you on both. >> Great. >> Thank you, Marcy. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, I I I'll just say I I still u
I sure hope it comes in within within $850,000 because I'm not really sure what happens if it's any more than that. Um, but I guess we'll just figure it out at that point if that's a you know unfortunate situation that happens. Uh I'm I'm most uh comforted by the fact
that Gino said someone that gave an estimate uh is I don't know if you literally said this, but my inference was that they're probably going to be a bidder. Um so if they gave an estimate um then you know maybe that's a good indication that it'll come in at that
amount. Um but if if it doesn't if it comes in higher, I'm not really sure what happens. So hopefully that won't happen. >> Deal with it. >> What's that? >> We'll have to deal with it. Then that's it for that item unless there's any further discussion. As I said, there's no action.
>> Good thing we didn't have to vote, huh? >> Uh thank you to the team from the development team for joining us. >> Thank you, Benet. >> Thank you. >> Thank you all for having us. >> Have a good night. >> Thank you. >> Right. >> All right. The next item is review,
discuss, and potentially vote on special municipal employee designations. So the discussion around special municipal employees came up when we initially looked at um adding um Mr. Shuter Schutzer when I say that correctly to
the housing authority. Um there has been back and forth discussion with our council in his case housing authority is already sort of handled and dealt with by statute as a special municipal employee. The reason I left this on the agenda is it was highlighted by KP because we did not have any records
anywhere in the clerk's office. many communities do where the select board as a policy decision, you're under no obligation to do this, will designate a number of committees as special municipal employees because of the expertise and the professional experience that their membership
normally entails. The reason for doing a special municipal employee is that it is a little more flexible on the conflict laws. It still is required that they are disclosed, but it allows someone to be representing for a fee before a different town committee. um you know a
a client which right now they cannot if they are not designated as special municip special municipal employee. These special employee I'm just going to say special employees because it's easier for me to get it out. These special employees are not designated by individual which was the original thought from the housing authority folks
when we had Mr. Shutzer. They are by role or position or committee. And so the idea um of putting this before you was if you were interested in it um looking at um planning conservation ZBA
to start. We could always come back with others in the future, but those are ones where there's generally folks that are professionals in the field that serve in their community and may occasionally um also represent as a matter of course of their in the course of their business represent um clients before you know
other municipalities are even here. As of right now, they would need to recuse themselves, not work with those clients within their business. This would be an opportunity to allow them to do it. It is still required that they disclose. uh it just gives them a little more flexibility and it allows our the community to leverage their experience
and expertise that they've um developed professionally uh on these volunteer elected or appointed boards. >> Have we received any other requests from members of these from sitting members or applicants of these committees to to be designated as
>> No, to date we have not. The idea in talking to KP was that we are trying to avoid potential issues in the future if there were a vacancy or if there is someone that wants to run or if there is someone that wants to be appointed and they work professionally in the field and work with municipalities on a
regular basis. It's sort of belt and suspenders to prepare for the future and we would also keep this on record in the clerk's office because in all honesty it could be something that was done 35 years ago and the record just was might looked high and low to try and avoid even having to do this.
>> Yeah. Um, so that was sort of where we are right now. It's the idea that we are avoiding these uh potential issues in the future and also hopefully broadening the field of residents who may be interested uh in serving if they are familiar with these laws. They may have, you know, chosen not to volunteer in the past.
>> So two two separate camps, right? So just to recap, Mr. Schutzer, for housing authority, that's already categorized as as >> okay. >> Already okay. So it's in the consent agenda. We're not really dealing with that on this agenda item. >> Correct.
>> Um what we are dealing with here is the recommendation to uh add the board of assessors, board of health, ZBA, CPC, capital improvement committee, recreation committee. >> Those were that was the exhaustive list. He put >> historical commission, historic district commission to also be added as special
municipal employees. >> Correct. And it is your policy decision to make. We don't need to do this tonight. It was something that as a best practice would put us in a position to allow future volunteers to be appointed or to to be elected to those roles. >> And you and your recommendation would be
aligned with Tom Mc >> and make sure that we have the record available so that going forward we can immediately point to it and say this action was taken on January 7th. They were designated and as such they have this, you know, additional flexibility to be able to serve.
>> I'm I'm fine. I'm I'm fine to move forward and and and follow the recommendation of >> Should I take that as a motion? >> Yes. >> Second. >> All right. Any other discussion? >> Okay. All in favor? >> I I
>> Okay. Fantastic. The next item, I believe, is the um potential legal services. >> Yes, it is. >> So, I've had this as with um solid waste is outside of procurement, the 30B structure. So you can have discussions
in advance. I've spoken to two firms to see if there would be capacity to apply if we were to, you know, go through some sort of a formal process that would definitely reflect and mirror the RFP, but it is not actually, you know, a normal 30-b procurement. Um, there was
interest from both of them. I also alerted Tom that we had this discussion just so KP was also aware that it's at least something that has been discussed at the end of the last board meeting and was being discussed in more detail tonight. Um the recommendation for me and sort of the detail I wanted to share with you all was if we were going to
move forward, we I would like to put together an RFP that I can share with the group for feedback. Um we can discuss it um in the future if you'd like. Um that process would ask for sort of the service proposal and the price proposal. We would look at their qualifications or the request for qual
request for qualifications and a price proposal. The request for qualifications would be the basis for an interview interview process that in my mind happy to take guidance from you all but would be two rounds. One is um a handful of department heads and hopefully the
moderator and a couple of chairs would be ideally a way that we would do this so that there are multiple points of view into it in that first round. Um we would then come to you all with a recommendation. If there were five respondents, we might narrow it. If there's only three respondents, we might have all three come before you. But that
first round of interviews would be something that, you know, in my experience when we did this in Milton, it ran about 90 minutes each as opposed to a pretty tight 50 to 60 that the select board did with with each respondent. And it allowed for a pretty frank discussion, you know, from the
ZBA. Heather might say, "These are things that we do. This is how we operate with outside consultants or with attorneys on the board." It it really helped that process forward. Um and we were able to put forward a recommendation to the board that was informed not just by the request for qualifications but but by that that
discussion as well. We would then move to a process where you all would interview as I said you know two three four depending on what we have um final respondents so that you all could weigh in have a public interview with them and ultimately make the decision on who you
would like to appoint as town council. So that would be the way I would like to do it. Um I I want to be explicit by having this discussion that you are all on board with the idea that we're exploring it. It may mean that we end up with who we have. It might be that you talk to a number of firms and and um who
we have now is who we want. Um it might be that there's someone else. But I don't want what I didn't want was to not have this discussion and then get to the point that we have three people in front of you and everyone's like, well, you know, we have a great experience. Why do we have these other two firms in here? I just want everyone to understand that we're moving forward with this and eyes
wide open that um this is the path we intend to take and that the next step if we choose to do this would be the to draft that request for qualifications and price proposal which would basically mirror an RFP that we would put together. >> That sounds >> um >> sounds good to me. >> Sounds good.
>> And just the last thing I'll add to that >> vote for for prostit >> that would be I wouldn't I wouldn't mind a vote. Um the last thing I'll say is that you know I've talked to a handful of moderate or administrators in this area and I'm also looking at the Mass Municipal Law Association and we'll send
it to a couple of other firms or reach out to other firms rather that represent multiple towns just so we're not looking at sort of the sole practitioner model but one that has expertise in land use and you know um contracts and the like so that we're getting whether it is a large firm or a smaller firm we're
getting sort of everything together as opposed to a single individual that does it which is the case in a few communities nearby. >> Yeah. Motion. So, motion to uh to accept the recommendation of the town administrator to put together uh an RFQ uh for further discussion um asking for
service and a price proposal for uh town legal services. >> Second. >> Any other discussion? All in favor? >> I >> I >> Okay. Thank you very much. Um, >> did you want to say was there anything more on controlling legal expenses that
you wanted to say or that's all part of this? >> I that will be built into the price proposal. I think I didn't know if you had any short-term things you were going to suggest, but okay. All right. >> I spoke to I can speak to them again. I spoke to them. I am making sure the department heads >> go through me and Tom is making sure if
they don't go through me that it comes back through me. So, um, >> I'm not asking. >> I know. I think we have a good handle on what's coming and going. The idea that we need to narrow the spend is something that we all understand and will work towards. >> Great.
>> Um, >> okay. Next item. Discussion possible vote approving the current language of H3917 recreational land tax treatment. >> And this was the golf course. >> Correct. The home rule work that was done at town meeting prior to my
arrival. It is now in the committee for the third reading, I believe, in the legislature. Um, and we heard from uh, Representative Armeni's office that because of the way it was drafted and the way the vote was taken, they would just like a a vote attested to by the
board. Um, you know, with the raised stamp from uh, Mike down in the clerk's office sent to them so that everyone it's a procedural mo it's a procedural move that's being requested by this committee and the legislature to make sure that this bill can continue to move forward. There's no substantive change
that has been made. They just were not as happy with the drafting as they could have been, I guess, in the council's office. >> So, there's no there was no substantive change in the >> I don't believe so. >> Okay. >> Well, there can't be because it was voted it was voted at town meeting. So, >> and if there had in a more perfectly
drafted document, there would have been wording in there that says any substantive change can be approved by the board. They feel like we're not even that's not the question. It's not a substantive change. They want to make sure that the board is on the way it was drafted. They do they don't have comfort that the board is behind. Okay.
>> The decision. >> Just putting our stamp of approval. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Have a motion. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> Any other discussion? All in favor? >> I >> I
>> Okay. Uh so I think you're on the consent agenda now. >> Yes, we are. Oh, can you just pull the minutes and put them on for the next meeting? >> Sure. >> And can you also just make it really clear because we did receive an email >> um prior to walking in here about the
issue of whether or not we have to vote >> for vote as a um a roll call vote. So I I if I understood the question correctly that was raised it was whether or not it needed to be done with the housing authority. Right? >> So what I did was I talked to the chair of the housing authority but I also
talked to the executive director Kevin Johnson to find out um as you can see in the email that was sent there is a qualifier there that if the board the select board is not timely notified in writing that the select board can vote and appoint alone. They do not need to do a joint meeting with the housing
authority. the executive director of the housing authority does not recall ever um in writing timely notifying the select board. Uh and the chair has said the same thing that it the according to the executive director it's been vacant for quite a while. There was no movement
on this until um late November, December, I believe when the discussion started happening that we had both a tenant representative that was qualified and interested and Mr. Shutzer as well. And so because we missed that 30-day window, you all are able to make the appointment legally on your own and they
will be happy to accept Mr. Shutzer and the new tenant representative. So they have a full compliment on the housing authority moving forward. >> And and in all fairness, uh the housing authority at their last two meetings have uh have affirmed that decision. I spoke with Mr. Patios, the chair of the uh the housing authority uh this evening
before this meeting and he he he said yes, we're in full support of Miss Russo, who we've already appointed, and and Mr. Schutzer, there's been no reconsideration or anything. So, they're they're happy with uh with us moving forward. >> And he indicated the same. But to directly to the question that was raised
this evening, I spoke to council about it. And because of that missing that 30-day window, you all are able to move um the the vote alone and without doing it in conjunction with the housing authority and just make the appointment. >> Great. >> Okay.
>> Motion to approve the consent agenda. >> Second. >> As amended. as amended. >> Second. >> Uh, all in favor? >> I I >> select board time. >> Taking note of the fact that we are now
at two hours. Just for the record, it's a job bug. >> 12 minutes. >> 12 minutes. >> Is that what it says? >> No. It's 8:30. Anyway, anything? >> Um, I can go first. Um, I just want to
say thank you to Nate Vice, Daniel Bolinsky, Joe Dulette for televising the meeting tonight. And I also would like to congratulate the chair of the planning board, Ted Douly, and his
family, Nicole Douly and Jack Douly. They have a new Douly. Um, Merritt Douly sounds like Mary Douly. I think she's named after the new Commodore at the Yacht Club, possibly Mary Webster. But anyway, um, it's pretty exciting. Um,
Meritt Julie showed up on the 4th, the middle of the afternoon, and uh, it's always exciting. So, that's, uh, that's all I have to say tonight. >> It's getting very, very local, very personal. Okay. Uh, anything else?
>> I don't have anything. Not today. >> Good. >> All right. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I