Check. Check. Check. Cool. Okay. Good evening everyone and welcome to the June 18th meeting of the select board. If you could rise for the pledge of allegiance led by our Eagle Scout Eagle Scout Jackson Gatlin.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, as a reminder, we are being
recorded. Um, we will start the meeting by a reading of the Junth proclamation. uh Junth proclamation by the select board. Whereas on June 19th, 1865, more than 25,000 enslaved people in the state of Texas received news that they were
free and that the Emancipation Proclamation had declared all enslaved people to be free nearly two and a half years earlier. And whereas since 1865, Junth day has been celebrated as a special day of celebration for freedom. And the celebration of this day has grown into a day of learning, sharing,
and giving respect to the history, culture, and achievements of African-Americans. And whereas on January 1st, 1980, Junth officially became a Texas state holiday. Since then, the federal government in all 50 states and the District of Columbia have also commemorated or recognized the day.
And whereas the 117th Congress established Junth, National Independence Day, and declared June 19th as a legal public holiday, this bipartisan legislation unanimously passed the Senate and passed the House by a vote of 415 to 14, becoming the 12th federal
holiday. And whereas on July 14th, 2020, then Governor Charlie Baker signed Junth into law to be celebrated as a state holiday to recognize the continued need to ensure racial freedom and and equality. And and whereas Junth is an
opportunity to reflect on our nation's history and to celebrate the contributions of all our citizens. It is a change. It is a chance. It is a chance to shine a light on the strength of the human spirit and to begin to make a wrong right by working
towards a more equitable future for all Americans. And now therefore, by virtue of the authority vested in the town administrator and each of the below select board members in the town of Swamcott, we hereby proclaim June 19th, 2025 as Junth day in the town of Swamcott, Massachusetts, and encourage
all faith-based and nonprofit organizations, residents, businesses, and public institutions to acknowledge, honor, and value, and celebrate African-Americans, and encourage everyone to treat others with mutual respect and understanding. A witness hereof, we have un here unto set our
hands and caused to be affixed the great seal of the town of Swamscott, Massachusetts, this 18th day of June, 2025. The Swampscott Select Board. Um, thank you, Doug. Appreciate that. Sort of anticlimactic if as we read something
so powerful to then just move on to the next thing. Um, Jackson citation is right here. Okay, we are next going to recognize Jackson Gatlin who has come to be recognized as an Eagle Scout. Doug,
would you mind reading the proclamation? I will. Uh, whereas the rank of Eagle Scout is the highest honor that could be attained by a Boy Scout and takes years of dedication and commitment to achieve. And whereas Eagle Scouts act as leaders and role models in the community, the Eagle Scout Award is a distinction that
will follow Mr. Gatlin throughout life and will be a beacon to others of the leadership quality and commitment he has shown. And whereas Mr. Gatlin's attainment of the rank of Eagle Scout involved working with Lynn DPW and installing anformational kiosk at Slle Pond and Lynn, displaying environmental information, regulations, and city
notices. Mr. Gatlin also spearheaded the removal of invasive knotweed and trash at Slle Pond. This major community service project will undoubtedly benefit all visitors to Slle Pond for years to come. And now therefore, it be it proclaimed that on behalf of the entire select board in town of Swam Scott, we
do hereby congratulate and recognize uh Jackson Gatlin for his achievement of the rank of e Eagle Scout and urge others to join us in extending congratulations to Mr. Gatlin. Witness here whereof, we have here unto set our hands and cause to be affixed the great seal of the town of Swamscott,
Massachusetts. It's 18th day of June, 2025. The Swampscott Select Board and Gino Crest [Applause] Yeah, we can all we'll all come up.
I just want to say like for those of you that don't know this dude with all these mirror bags like this is not normal. Okay, most people have one of these. Okay, he's got like you know overflowing basically. Very very impressive. Would
[Applause] you like to tell us a little bit more about your project? That would be great. But uh I started scouting when I was in third grade. Uh I lived in Oregon at the time. I moved to Massachusetts actually
when I was like 10 or 11 years old. So it's relatively new to me scouting and stuff but scouting has consistently been a part of my life. It's okay. Yeah. So scouting has been pretty consistent throughout my life. Uh and
as you guys can tell I have a lot of merit badges. They Oh hello the mic's on. Um, so that gave me an opportunity to scouting gave me an opportunity to do fun things and be like awarded for it. So that was a lot of fun. Actually worked as a camp counselor at a scout camp up in New Hampshire. Uh, what was
it called? Hidden Valley. Yeah, that was it. Hidden Valley up in New Hampshire, which was a lot of fun. Summer of 2022. Uh, but anyways, going on to becoming an Eagle Scout. Uh, it was a lot of work and I'm very grateful for all my friends and family and fellow scout members who
helped me through all of this. Um, I mean it's not supposed to be a project that you do by yourself. It's something that you lead and it has given me many opportunities to lead and to help others. And it was something very personal to me also because I live out on Slle Pond. Um, and you know, I wanted
to have some sort of information that people could access. I mean, I go fishing there all the time. I go swimming in there. It's a great pond. Um, so the construction of anformational kiosk was pretty important to me. telling about fish, you know, the flora and the fauna of the area, some local rules and regulations, and also just anything that the city wanted to put up.
Um, the removal of notweed, too, uh, was a big part of it. It was blocking pretty important signs. Uh, there was a big metal sign there basically saying like don't drive backwards because it's dangerous, but that was blocked up so people could have driven backwards. I don't know. Um, so anyways, I got rid of Notweed. Uh, and there was also just some general trash cleanup. I mean, you
know, it's a boat ramp. People go fishing off of there all the time. Lures, uh, tackle areas, you know, just wrappers of stuff. So, cleaning all that up. Uh, yeah, that was my project. And I actually did my border review the day before I turned 18, uh, May 20th. So, that was kind of cutting it close, but I
did it. So, here we are. Awesome. Thanks. Thank you, Jackson. I will say I did mine the day before my 18th birthday as well. It's a very common thing that happens. So, deadlines helpful. Thank you very much. And congratulations again. Yes, thank
you. Okay. Um, we will move on to the town administrator's report. The town administrator is out this evening, but I do have a highlight reel. Um, on Saturday, the no kings protest saw about 500 attendees as Congressman
Molton spoke. For the police department, it was a peaceful rally with no issues, which is saying something. So, thank you to all the participants and to the police department. appreciate all your support. Um, due to the weather, the VFW will be holding their annual US flag
retirement ceremony on Fisherman's Beach on Wednesday, June 25th at 5:00 pm. If you have a flag in need of retirement, please drop it off at their location on 8 Pine Street by June 25th, 3 p.m. or bring it to the ceremony by 4:45 so they
can make time to have them all retired. Um, respectfully, a big thank you to the Swanscott residents who generously donated $10,000 towards the annual fireworks event. That's a really big deal and closed a really big gap for us.
So, we appreciate um the generosity of that resident and we will all enjoy the fireworks um a good deal thanks to them. The annual townwide yard sale was rescheduled due to weather and is now scheduled for June 28th. The library's
annual summer reading program for kids and adults kicks off on June 26th. Um we had had a conversation last week about the building department um and the new um building director. They the total revenue brought in in May by the
building department was $78,715. So, we can already see significant um significant um increases due to having a building commissioner. So, appreciate that um continued effort. Um Gino attended and made a presentation at the
Greater Lin Chamber annual state of the region on the state of Swampscott. Doug, I think you were there. I was. Um as a part of the cooling corridors grant program, we have an additional 52 trees to plant in locations around town. Um, if you would like to have a tree planted
somewhere around you, please email um, Gino or you can email the select board and we'll make sure it gets to the right place. Um, that is the highlight reel of the town administrator's report. It's more fully fleshed out. I mean, you could ask questions for the
record, but we could also ask Gino questions next time if we have any, unless anybody has anything. You're not going to fully be able to answer question. I don't think so. I could try my very best as I as I always do, but One thing I'm not sure did you mention Black Panther tomorrow night? Oh no, that's right. On the Black Panther
tomorrow night, 6 PM uh Town Hall being shown on Town Hall as the first of the movie programs being held by the rec department. Cool. So, very good. Um, okay, we will move on to public comment.
Um, public comment, please come up to the microphone so that folks at home can hear you. Um, please state your name and your address. You'll have three minutes. Um, it looks like we have one hand raised online.
Diane, you can unmute. Okay, go ahead. Um, DG, sorry, I can't see your name. It was David Greenbomb. David Greenbomb. Okay, David Greenbomb, you may unmute yourself and speak. Good evening. Thank you for the
opportunity to speak. Um, I'd like to speak to the board tonight. Um, excuse me, regarding u what I understand is the potential to eliminate the public health nurse uh in town. Um, a little bit about myself. I am a former longtime
resident of the town of Swanscott. Um, and my mother is, I believe, the last public health nurse full-time in the town of Swampscott. Um, that was about 35 to 40 years ago, and it's taken that long for the town to get another full-time public health nurse. Um, it's
it's a position that I I hold dear as I am the health agent in the city of Salem as well. Um, I'm a public health advocate and a public health professional. Um I believe that this position is of utmost important in importance in any community. Um they
offer services to the community overall but in particular to the seniors in the community. Um I think that you know eliminating a position of this importance um would be a detriment to the to the residents of Swanscott. And
um I think that this the town really needs to take a long look at some of the things that this position does. They offer vaccination clinics and blood blood pressure clinics. Um they offer walk-in services at senior centers for um you know for the seniors. Um they
provide TB and DOT for TB patients. Um, you know, I could go on and on and I know some of my colleagues are here and they're going to speak as well about this. Um, but I I I really encourage the
town to think long and hard about eliminating a position that does so much for the town of Swanscott um in in in public health in general. Um it it would be a tragedy to see this happen again after um getting this position back after 40 years. Um, I thank you again
for the opportunity to speak and uh I'll I'll yield the floor. Thank you. Thank you. Dan, if you could hover the number two hand. Hi Sharon, you should be able to speak. Sharon, you should unmute
if you could. Thank you very much. Very good. My name is Sharon Cameron and I'm a resident of Peavedy and I'm the director of health and human services for the city of Peavedy. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you tonight. The health of the
residents of my community is entwined with the health of residents throughout our region. The role of the public health nurse is critical to ensuring that infectious diseases are identified and managed in a timely and efficient manner. One of the cliches of public
health is that diseases don't respect municipal borders. The collaboration that our regional health departments and specifically our public health nurses have is essential to keeping all of our residents safe. To give you a very frequent example, there may be a
resident of Swampscott who works in a pee restaurant as a food handler. If that employee becomes ill with Salmonella and continues working, everyone eating at that restaurant is at risk. This is just one of many examples where quick and efficient communication
between public health nurses keeps that one isolated illness from becoming a widespread outbreak. There are approximately 80 communicable diseases that by law are reported to the local board of health by labs, hospitals, and
doctor's offices. And the public health nurses are responsible for following up to prevent the spread of these diseases. There in addition to the many food born illnesses, there are diseases like tuberculosis, Ebola, and triple E that
the public health nurse follows up on. In other words, the doctor treats the sick patient. The public health nurse investigates to figure out how that patient got sick to prevent it from happening to other people and also implements interventions to make sure
that that sick patient doesn't spread disease to others in the community. Over the 20 years that I've been part of this regional collaboration, we've honed our emergency plans and conducted drills that prepared us to offer regional
drive-thru vaccination clinics during COVID pandemic. We've standardized regulations and procedures across our communities to ensure that we're reflecting best practices while also promoting a level playing field for the businesses on the Northshore. We've
identified common health issues such as the need for improved access to behavioral health services and we've launched initiatives together such as the Northshore Mother Visiting Partnership to address issues such as the postpartum mental health of new
parents. Um, excuse me. I could give you many more examples, but in the interest of brevity, I'll conclude by asking you to please recognize the vital importance of the public health nurse role to your community and to the broader community
of the Northshore. Public health work is often invisible until there's a crisis, but the work our public health nurses do behind the scenes every day is essential to the well-being of all of our communities. Thank you.
Thank you. Uh, the next SC, you should be able to speak. Could you float over that name again? Okay. Stephen Casey, if if you wanted to speak. Okay, we'll come back um to them if they
raise their hand again. Could you go to Megan? Okay, Megan, you may unmute your mic. Thank you. Good evening. Um my name is Megan Luznowski and I'm the coordinator for the Northshore Public Health Collaborative, which is a regional
collaboration of eight local health departments, including Swam Scott. I just wanted to speak tonight to ensure everyone is aware of the decision that um the decision to eliminate Swanson Scott's public health nurse position would potentially jeopardize its participation in the grant funded program. These programs resources are
currently available to Swamot residents at no cost to the town and it includes a team of regional staff including a social worker, community health worker, a part-time public health nurse, two epidemiologists and two health inspectors. These staff members enable participation in the Northshore Mother
Visiting Partnership, which provides a home visit to moms who've recently given birth. And the main condition of the grant funding for this program is that participating municipalities may not supplant funds. So this would mean we would no longer be able to provide Swamot residents with these free regional services if the town does move
forward this decision, which would negatively impact both Swamot and the region as a whole. Thank you for your time and opportunity to speak. Thank you. Um, let's see. Go ahead, Diane. You can unmute your mic, Mr. Khan.
Good evening, members of select board. My name is Steven Khan and I'm an epidemiologist in Salem who works closely with local health departments in the area, including here in Swampscott. I want to speak strongly against the elimination of the public health nurse position. This is not just a staffing change. His decision was serious
consequences for disease control, the health of seniors, and legal compliance. The public health nurse is essential to infection prevention, surveillance, and rapid response. They are the ones who report illnesses, identify the source, and take swift steps to stop disease transmission in our communities. We've
seen this firsthand with protessis in schools, which was elevated last year, where the nurse follows up with families, ensures treatment, and works with school nurses and staff to prevent spread. Without that intervention, outbreaks will spread uh quickly and silently. Swampscott also has a growing
aging population, many of whom rely on the public health nurse for services like blood pressure screenings, flu and CO 19 immunization clinics, and home visits. These are not luxuries. They are essential preventative services that reduce hospitalizations and emergency care. If this position is eliminated,
these responsibilities won't disappear. Under 105 CMR 365, the local board of health is still legally required to conduct tuberculosis surveillance. If there's no public health nurse, the town will still need to fulfill that obligation, likely by contracting with an outside source, which is often more
expensive and less responsive to the needs of residents. The same applies to immunization and elder wellness services. Those would also need to be outsourced. So, let's be clear, eliminating this role does not reduce the town's responsibility, and it will not save money. It will shift cost elsewhere, likely increase them, and
degrade the quality of timeliness of care for residents, especially seniors. Please do not move forward with this. Swans deserves better than this level of risk and short-sightedness, especially for its most vulnerable residents. Thank you. Thank you. We'll go back to the prior
Stephen. Hi. Uh can you guys hear me? Okay, we can. Thank you. Okay. Sorry about that. I was having some audio issues. That's okay. Um my name is Stephen Casey Jr. I work with uh the the Northeast Training Hub as a regional public health trainer which covers Swamp Scott and almost 30
other communities on the north north shore. Like my colleagues, I just wanted to echo some of their statements and talk about the importance of public health nurses to the community. Um they provide tons of core services that protect residents and improve their health outcomes. Some of these have been touched on already, but some of the
services they provide and are limited to vaccination clinics for the public, first responders, and senior citizens of the town, blood pressure clinics, and routine hearing and vision examinations, monitoring and investigating infectious and communicable diseases, including contacting, educating, and guiding
residents impacted by these diseases. They thoroughly vet and inspect recreational camps operating in town to protect the children, assist with emergency preparedness to combat and plan for disasters, run programs that help children and mothers, and coordinate and develop substance use prevention efforts like opioid
prevention, for example. Eliminating a position like this is a short-term action that can create long-term communitywide impacts. Seniors and residents lose access to many services provided by the nurse and the community loses someone protecting them from infectious diseases that prevents outbreaks from occurring and contains
them when they do. In 2020, we experienced a global pandemic and in 2024, Massachusetts had a whooping cough outbreak in children across the state. Public health nurses were at the forefront of this when it came to protecting a community of seniors, children, and residents. On top of the
duties I already listed, public health nurses are key community figures that residents are familiar with. They're experts on their specific city or town that residents know, have a rapport with, and feel comfortable interacting with and approaching. They provide free free education, trainings, and guidance to seniors, new mothers, and residents
of all walks of life. As select board members, I know you took these positions because your community is of the utmost importance to each of you. Ensuring Swampscott has a permanent full-time public health nurse is one of the most efficient, effective, and costbeneficial ways to make sure that Swampscott residents stay safe and healthy and
don't lose access to services that benefit them. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. Seeing no additional hands raised or anybody in the audience, we will move on to old and new business and open up uh
to the 645 continuation of public hearing. to discuss a possible vote on the renewal of wholesome's uh earth removal permit. I have a motion to second. Thank you. We are now in the public hearing. All in favor? I Oh. All
in favor? I. Sorry. My apologies. Thanks for reminding me, Doug. Okay. So, we are here again to discuss the permit. Tony and company are here to help us with any additional questions or
concerns. Um we had wholesome representatives in last meeting to discuss the position um they had taken. Um probably the most community involvement I've had is the idea that is willing to
participate in some community outreach. and I've had four or five emails about some ideas where wholesome could spend some funds in Swampscout that might help our community. So glad that that that came from the conversation. Um but as for the task at hand, does
anybody have any additional questions or comments for Iraq on the permit? No. Iraq, would you like to say anything? You don't have to, but you are here. I'm here in case there was some questions. Okay, great. There's no questions. Fantastic. I see we have a
representative from wholesome virtually. Is there anything you would like to say before we proceed? That's Chrised. I'm here as well. I'm Jared Temple. Oh, okay. I'm here as well. Okay, great. Sorry. No worries.
Um, turn my hat around there. Oh, there you go. You guys were so friendly. I just assumed. Um, but that's a good sign, of course. Um, okay. So, I will take up a vote if anybody's so inclined.
Do you want to say anything or No, same thing. I was just here to answer any additional questions, but there doesn't appear to be any. Okay, great. I'll make a motion to renew Holles's U 2025 2026 Earth removal permit. Second. All those
in favor? I I Okay, very good. Uh we need a motion to close the public hearing. Second. All in favor? I I Okay. And we look forward to continuing discussions upon um's community outreach. Yeah. And I think I think it
would be a good idea for those of us who have not taken a tour. Like I I I went I went five years ago. I would love to go again. So I Jared I will reach out and maybe try to schedule something with you guys over the course of the next few weeks. Fantastic. I know how difficult
it is to get everyone scheduled. Great. Great. You got it. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Um the next item on the agenda. Excuse me. Yes. Excuse me. Yes. Uh just a reminder uh there we got to get this uh
this permit to the board of health as well. Yes, I did speak with the board of health this afternoon and they will discuss it in their next meeting. Thank you very much. You're very welcome. Okay. Um the next item on the agenda is discussion and possible vote of the
Swanska Police Department's recommendations of the changes to Fisherman's Beach parking lot. We have lots of folks here who have thoughts on that. So, we are very glad to welcome you all. Um, the conversation sort of where we left it last time was maybe
possibly thinking about before going straight to recreation only in the whole lot the whole day if there wasn't some sort of compromise or some in sort of middle ground maybe that we could start thinking about. Um we invited some
members of um the Swampscott Yach Club, the harbor and waterfront, and some of the um commercial fishermen to join us today along with the police department just to make sure that we are seeing all points of the community um during this
conversation. So thank you all for coming. Appreciate it. Um so office we have so we have Ted Douly, Mike Kimali and uh Kevin Anybody want to speak first or should we Kevin?
Why don't we start with you maybe? [Music] Thank you for uh having us here tonight. Just brief introduction. Ted Douly. I'm on the Harbor Waterfront Advisory Committee. Officer Ree needs no introduction. Um, and Mike Kumbali, my
colleague on Harbor Waterfront, who is also a member of our commercial fishing fleet. Um, so I wanted to, you know, show up here tonight. Appreciate you taking the time on two weeks agendas here to discuss this. Um, so wanted to come answer any questions you might have. And I think one important thing to
clarify since our last presentation on this, I know our committee met a few weeks ago and I think there was a couple things that I think would be helpful to clarify since um the initial presentation with you a few weeks ago. Um first, uh our committee revised some
of the recommendations um to be a 5:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. um recreation sticker hours for the parking lot there. Um, so there'd be cut off at 5:00 pm to allow for patrons of local businesses and other establishments in towns to use the parking lot. Um, additionally, there was
a conversation about um the yach club and the ability for the yach club to have reserved parking there. And that was a a revise from that was just to have a pass, a temporary wreck sticker um for employees of the uh launch for the yach club who do not live in swamps
of which there are several to be able to park their cars in the lot just like anybody else would with the wreck sticker while they're on the clock. Um so those are the two real revisions that um I think have come since our last presentation in front of you this evening. Um, but happy to answer any other questions and Mike here can
probably answer questions that might pertain to the commercial fishing fleet and anything along those lines. Can just clarify. I'm sorry I missed it. Ted, what was the first piece? 5 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Wreck only. Wreck sticker only. Rec. But just with that those
hours in mind, seven days a week or five days? Seven days a week. May through and seasonally during this seasonally. So, same as um the rec the parking for the rest of town. It's what May to October, I think. October. May May 1st to October 1st is
the recreation is the current recreation sticker parking, but the sticker is good for the entire year. Yep. Of that, just so you're aware. Okay. Oh, just one second. Uh did you want to say anything additional? I think that
kind of covers most of it. Um, okay. Especially the conversation that that we had as a committee. Um, I think I just want to did want to point out, I know this was a concern at the last meeting was ensuring the public's continued ability to use the lot and also access the beach. So, you know, the conversation we're having here is on the
lot with the 41s parking spaces that are currently painted there. Um, meanwhile, there are 81 additional parking spots between Fuller Terrace and Cedar Hill that would be unaffected by this. So, we found that this was a good balance between um providing residents and uh fishermen the ability to use the lot
while not uh disallowing other members of the public from other communities access to the features in that area. Okay. I'll take um comments from if you'd like to come up to the microphone, you can make public comment on this topic and then we'll discuss.
Just state your name in your address. Hi, Chris Schwarz. Uh 33 Winshaw. Um is the wreck sticker the same as a beach sticker or is it going to be the same? So it's all residents will have access to the parking area from uh from 5 to 5
or 8. Yes. Yep. That's all I was asking. Thank you. Thanks. And I'm totally in support of it. Thank you. Okay. So, um, open it up to discussion by the board. Officer Re did remind me of one point
that I was neglected to mention, um, which was the ability for anyone who has a boat that is mored in Swampscott and has their boat registration in Swampscott and pays the, uh, the use fee to the town of Swampscott through having a moring would be eligible to purchase a wreck sticker just like a resident would
be. One other facet that our committee did discuss and thinks would be useful for the town to consider is for um veterans to be eligible for a pre a free parking pass. Um just as a consideration. Um do you know how many numbers what
numbers we're talking about? How many mor boat owners are not Swamp Scott residents? So there's uh there's roughly about 175 boats in the harbor. Um I believe it's between 20 and 30
non-resident boat owners. Um one of the things that we also did rec recognize was um with Lieutenant Waters as the harbor master when the mooring permits go out seasonally. That's something that we would be able to remedy on our end
making a pass specific for Fisherman's Beach lot. Okay. so that it it has the respect of the lot, the ability to use the the pier and access their boat without overindulging extracurriculars in other areas. And how
would the non-resident obtain through? Well, they they have to they have to apply through the harbor master and register their boat just like they would a vehicle. Um the vehicle the the registration sticker gets delivered every two years through the RMV.
Annually their mooring is registered in Swamp Scott. We handle the moorings. When the mooring permit goes out, we'll be able to send a pass with that mooring specific for that year only. Okay. But it would be an additional fee or it would be included in the mooring fee. Uh
I I think that would be up to the harbor master I think and and discussing the annual mooring fees. I know that they they do um there is a potential that they increase over time depending it's also dependent upon the size of the vote the boat boats so the the the fee for
the per foot of boat y um yeah I was just thinking from an equity standpoint a swamp Scott resident would have to buy both pay for the morning fee and the res and the recer so it would make sense I would agree okay Um,
I think you would find most of our members would probably agree with that as well. Okay, very good. All right, then. So, I guess just to recap what's on the table, um, we've already approved the recreation parking signs going up in the lot. I'm sorry. We we approved last
time the do not enter signs being that are displayed in the lot. Um, so what would we be what we are looking to vote to support today would be recreational parking signs to be installed, which would state seven days a week, 7 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. May 1. Oh, what did I say? 7,
sorry. 5:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. May 1st to October 1st. Um, there is still a request for a designated spot for the harbor master. Yes. Okay. Uh there would be a temporary employee pass to be given to the
Swampscott Yach Club with approval by the Harbormaster and the Police Department for uh an employee that would rotate between employees as necessary. Um so commercial fishermen do they already
if I mean I assume they register a boat and have a moing so they would be part of that conversation we were just talking about. Is that correct? That's right. And Mike can speak to this a little more, but they also have deck hands. That's probably not the right term, but Yeah. No, it's the right term. Yeah. Okay. Um, look at you. Yes, we um
um we're we're there very early in the morning anyway, so it it's really a non-issue for us. Okay. And and the commercial fisherman support this. It it it it doesn't encroach upon our inherent rights to the reservation at this time. Right. So, we have no objection to it.
Appreciate that. But is there a desire for the deck hands who might need a parking spot to Oh, yes. Some of the Yeah, some of the um uh good point. Um uh fellas have uh deck hands or workers who may not be residents. Um there's got
to be some consideration so that they could come down there. But we discussed this, didn't we? And we could give them a Yeah. and if they have the ability to prove to prove their employment with the town or something through one of the commercial boats registered. I'm sure that's something to be worked out in, you know, behind on the back end. But
that was just one other consideration. I want to ask a question, please. I understand the intent of all of this, but I do feel like it's starting to feel a little overengineered. Um, I mean I'm down there 100 days a
year like especially in the morning and maybe this is where you're going about like the deck hands like you're getting there four, five, six in the morning like there's plenty of parking spots like it's not an issue. It's not an issue for us. No. Right. So I I'm I'm curious
about the five to five why those hours were picked and I mean I frankly I I almost never see that parking lot full except when there's big events. You know I it's and I'm I have to admit I'm down there
usually before 9:00 a.m. So maybe it happens later in the day. Uh but it it just feels like this is getting to be like a real thing. I'd be happy to uh bring you down there most days of the summer when it's entirely full and many of us in the
boating community who pay a morning fees aren't able to park there. Um so I think that is something that is uh a frustration is that when we're paying a use fee um for what is a reservation dedicated to fishing and boating recreationally and commercially. We're
not able to access the um harbor most of the time during the summer seasons when we're paying to use the harbor. Um, so that's where the impetus of this really came. In addition to the long-term parking that commercial vehicles are currently engaging in in that lot that I'm sure the police department can talk
about the number of calls they get on that and the number of long-term parking uh that occurs there. So that was the impetus of the conversation. the 5 am, the 5pm came up at our last meeting in an effort to be um recognizing the concerns of of your board that was
mentioned about not over um casting too wide of a net and really to allow for better use of the uh of the lot during off hours for the commercial businesses that are in the area. I appreciate that part. Uh,
and I have to say like we could we can debate about the reservation, the boating and the fishing and whether or not you have to park on the street or in the lot or you know why is it if people get to the beach by 10:00 like then you know we should be you know holding all those spots empty you know all day long so the boater can come at 4:00. I mean
it's just there's there's there's kind of veiling interests here that um I I'm concerned about. You I take your point about there's 80 spots on the street, you know. Okay, let all the beach people without a boat, you know, let them walk. I I mean, I just don't quite know if
we're getting the balance right. And we're talking about Boers here because that's one of the concerns that we had. But we're not suggesting that this lot should only be used by Boers. We're really suggesting it's anybody who is a boater who's from out of Swampscott and any resident of Swampscott who wishes to
purchase a wreck pass should use the lot. We're not suggesting that they shouldn't. Um, but the frustration that a lot of people have is that when they go to the lot and they are a voter and they're paying a use fee there in the middle of the summer, they're not able to find a spot. And that is something that residents and people who are non-residents who paid to more their
boats here have voiced to our committee for two years. Um, so that said, I just don't quite understand how what you're saying is going to help. I mean, if people get there at 9:00 and they're just using the beach and they got record stickers, it's all going to be full
anyway. I mean, if you come later and you're a voter, you're still not gonna have a spot. But most most voters are gonna now have to purchase a wreck sticker. I understand that. And necessarily guarantee them a spot, though. But it's but it's also going to fall under the same
umbrella as all of the other lots in town that have recreation parking for beaches in the area. And there's going to be continuity and it's going to be sympatical with with the other areas when there's an abundance amount of um
parking rides, commercial vehicles that come in and acquire the spots and and utilize them to which the residents then are looking to get there and go about their day and their business with the with the lot. To echo what what Mr. Duly
saying it creates a level of frustration on the end where we're most of the boat owners, all of the boat owners are paying for accessibility there. This is just an extra level of um opportunity to continue their access ability to access
the lot. Um I I I understand that you're the the level of u detail that you're inquiring about. However, it is an area that requires a significant amount of flexibility with
the workers and their rights accessing the pier and the beach. Um, I think the burden is being placed upon um myself and the harbor unit to monitor the non-residents with them with their
moorings. There's no extra majority of work that's going out. We're now creating an an access to monitor the vehicles that are there. And and just thinking right now off the top of my head, if there is an emergency of somebody who does go out, we now have
a record of their vehicle being in there right off the bat with their sticker, they're monitored. The lot can be maintained and enforced by the police department. and the some of the amendments that were
made are now being uh accommodating to the local businesses. Um I don't see it as a detriment and as the conduit for the gentleman here to my left, we were just broaching this subject because we felt that it would bring continuity,
some balance, some structure, and an ability to keep moving forward on on maintaining the order of the lot. May I speak to the you may or not may may or may or may not be aware that it's also an overflow for the train station.
We have commuter parkers that four or five park every morning, get into a clown car, drive down to the train station, come back at 4:30. It's happening. Mr. Engles has a picture. You probably have seen it last week. You took it at 9:30 in the morning. The parking lot was full, out
of space at 9:30. Not a bather on the beach. So the property is not being used for the reasons the purpose that was taken by imminent domain in 1904 I think it was I read it um it said that the
property will be taken by the town for commercial fishing boating bthers and resident citizens of Swamot. It's cut and dry. So, we're just trying to get in line with the rest of the communities. And I understand what you're saying,
Doug. I I don't think we're trying to be unreasonable. That's why we tried to come back and tailor some of the amendments that are made here tonight to address some of the concerns that your board uh vocalized two weeks ago and respect those concerns. And that's really why we met a couple weeks ago to try and find a way to we could find a
middle ground that would help to address the concerns that this board voiced while also um vocalizing the opinions that our board has and and have been expressed to us. Thank you. Um we'll move on. Does anybody else have any questions? And then so I don't have
a question. I just have a comment. Um so this was unanimous decision by Harbor Waterfront. All nine members did unanimously vote this. I was at the meeting last week. I was part of it. Um, and I don't quite see I don't see how it could be a detriment, but I I mean I do
agree to Kevin's point that it is in line with what we're doing at the other beaches. So, I don't know why fisherman's would be different. To me, it seems like we'd be helping fishermanmen, the yacht club, and the residents of Swampscott. So, I don't see it as a I don't see a negative here. Um,
but that's just, you know, my my personal thought. I know it is kind of it's something we've never done, right? So, it's a new thing. It's a change, but I think it's a change for the good. Um, that's just that's my take. So, I just I just had a quick question for Officer Re uh just about the
overnight overnight parking. So, you know, if you have a I have a recreation sticker. I can park overnight and leave my vehicle at at fish in the Fisherman's Beach parking lot. Well, which is why the committee amended the time from 5:00 am to 5:00 pm. So after 5:00 p.m.
you don't need a sticker. No. Understood. But there's but there's still a problem with long-term parking. Yes. With residents and non-residents leaving their vehicles at Fisherman's Beach for extended periods of time and going going wherever going on vacation,
what have you. So, how do we free up those spots? How do we enforce that overnight that that overnight parking if to ensure that the that the the parking does in fact turn over for the voters, for the residents, for the if if there's
um to be able to So, if I could just clarify your question again, a vehicle parked outside of these hours leading overnight, what would our enforcement for those. We wouldn't have enforcement on those vehicles because the
restriction would eliminate us from monitoring the lot after 5:00 p.m. Mhm. Um, one of the reasons that was so that we could accommodate the businesses in the area, but you're asking how we how we could, for example, we would no overnight
parking. You could put signs in there that say overnight parking. Absolutely. That's And so would that be would that also be a re a recommendation of the Swampscott Police Department to to curtail that problem? Yeah. To to remedy that issue. Um is that enforceable if we put a sign
up that says no overnight parking? It Yes, it would be enforceable by citation and fines. Okay. Um and that would then just carry over to for that if it's that lot specific. It would have to designate the appropriate detail. No overnight parking lot. Yeah. And we would have to
stipulate hours. What is overnight, right? Um, we there is context. There's one hour after sunset to one hour before daybreak, right? Are we or are we saying midnight to 5:00 a.m.? I mean, that would it would be an extra
topic that we would be willing to discuss, I guess. Okay. Um, I just wanted Mary Ellen's online. If you could um recognized her, Diane, I don't know. She can probably just speak at this point. All right. Can you hear me? Yes. Thank you.
Um, so hold on let me put my hand down. Um, I think the the biggest concern I have is the there's a couple concerns I have is one is the the hours 5:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. I don't really see any
reason to have it till 5:00 p.m. Especially if you have a restaurant or different businesses there. I I think that making it till 3 is fine. I happened to be there this morning for an hour and a half and half the lot was empty. Um, and I'm not in the area now,
so I don't know what it looks like now. But my biggest concern is that a non-resident, a non- taxpayer who takes out a moing and you're not guaranteed access to the parking lot, you're guaranteed a mooring. So a non-resident
gets a mooring and now they have a parking pass. whereas a resident could lose out on being able to go to that beach and to be able to use the beach. And what sets that beach apart from all
the other beaches is the accessibility especially for disabled people and the accessibility for people have very small children especially if it's a single adult coming to manage their children. So I am completely against um giving any
passes to non-residents. Um as far as the fishermen go, fishermen are there in the morning and um as far as deck hands, just like Mr. Gmbali said, the early morning parking doesn't seem to be an issue for the commercial fishermen. So
those are my concerns. Thank you, Mariel. Okay. I think to some degree if please um I think to some degree Mary Owens uh maybe expressing more precisely what I was saying earlier. Can you explain just
a little bit more your thinking about the hours, the precise hours that you chose given the fact that super early isn't probably I don't think that I don't think anyone would claim that the lot is full at 7 a.m. Um, you know, or is it you're afraid that because even if
someone parks there at 6, but if then it's recreation sticker at 7, they're going to be hosed if they're off at work all day, right? So, yeah. Is there particular thinking around the hours? the five to five was really in an effort so we didn't have any unintended negative consequences of doing this on
the commercial fishermen or their their deck hand. So if they you know if we do this and then miraculously the lot is full at when they come on somebody comes into work at 6 or 7 one day um we wouldn't want to have an unintended negative consequences on the commercial
fishing fleet. I think Mike might might be able to shed some light at we're totally amendable to changing the hours if that's, you know, amendable to Mike speaking on behalf of some of his colleagues in the harbor and to this committee. U but that was the reasoning
why we structured it in that way in 3 p.m. versus 5 p.m. I don't I don't think that's a a sticking point for our committee if that's something that your board is more palatable to. I I don't really know what the point of the 3pm is from 5 p.m. I don't understand the difference.
Well, I mean, obviously understand the difference in time, but I just don't understand the effect of course, but I think I don't know what I think, for example, if you, you know, maybe we're going to go ahead, Mariel. There's a there's a restaurant across the street, they start serving at 4. So, that's that's the point. If if somebody's
starting to serve, they need more access. I mean, generally by 5:00 in the parking lot, people are leaving going home. I don't see any I I rather see it shorter just to help out any businesses than having it longer. I mean, it just seems to be a lot of parking spots in
front of Nord Haven or whatever restaurant is right there that wouldn't be I mean, it can only hold probably 20 people. So, I don't know that, you know, and just there's not going to be a rush of of diners at 4 p.m. Yeah, that's just my take. So, may maybe 4 p.m. might be a
better hour. We're we're amendable to that. I think what we're most concerned with is ensuring that this year we have a concrete step they're able to take to ensure that this parking lot is more accessible to residents and to those who um use the harbor for commercial or recreational purposes. So if 4pm is more
amendable to your board, let's take that step and see how it works. Um and then revisit this next year. So does that help the fisherman? Does that solve your problem? Does that solve the yach club's problem? And does that does that that because that's the goal of this, right? is to make sure that the fishermen have
their access, the yach club and the moing people, people with moorings have access and our residents have access to the beach. Right. So, are we checking all these boxes? Does this time frame check all those boxes? Right. I I don't have a problem with it.
Um it it really again really doesn't affect us. We're there so early and usually done by then anyways. Um I think it's more designed just to bring it back to where it It was supposed to be from the beginning, right? We had sticker parking there for many, many years.
There was sticker parking there. You don't remember because you weren't here probably, but you know, it's just it's just whether it's four, whether it's five, we have street parking. I went to a restaurant I switch. I had to Uber from where I parked my car to get to the restaurant. Um, you know, I I have
sympathy, but you you you have to really understand that that was not the purpose of the reservation when it was taken by imminent domain. I can't make myself any clearer than that. Totally. And there's strong language that suggests this. So, you know, I don't have
what you're saying. Kevin, do you can you speak to why it was ever why it was no longer sticker required or what how that came about? I would refer to Mike because that happened well before I started fishing. There was a reign of fishermen at the
time that would not allow it. They put their foot down. Um they they it was their reservation. Um there was a time when there was no parking and I'm going back to the 80s when it was full of fish straps year round. So there was a regime
that wouldn't allow it. They fought it tooth and nail every time. I wasn't one of them, but they're gone now. Okay. And I think this is the right thing to do. Okay. For the residents of Swam. Thank you for that. And the only the only
other point I'll make is uh two quick points. Um the overnight parking I I in that came up that was discussed by our our committee. There's a lot of voters, myself included, who take their boat away for a night or two nights. Um, so having the no overnight parking on paper
sounds like a good idea, but I again I go back to the unintended consequences. Uh, we would hate to have an unintended consequence of this be somebody takes their boat away for two days or for an overnight to wherever and their car gets a ticket or something parked there. The
last point I'll make, Harbor Waterfront has not always agreed unanimously on a lot of things. I agree with that, Daniel. Right. you know, firsthand. Absolutely. We we did agree unanimously on this and uh with our fullthroated support. So, that speaks for itself. Yeah. Yeah. I would just um
I would echo this that this has been a collaborative conversation and it's been wonderful to have you guys participate with us and work through we nobody came here knowing all the answers and everyone's been open to the fact that you know people's ideas may come up
might make the situation better. Um, no matter how we vote tonight, I would encourage that this is not the last time we have this conversation. We revisit it in a month or two months to see if what we did was working. Um, because if we should be talking about no overnight
parking, um, then maybe it should come to the table then, or if the unintended consequences, you know, are something we didn't foresee, we should just make sure we're we're continuing the conversation. Agreed. Agreed. Excellent. Okay. K.
Okay, I would like to I'd just like to know what people's feeling. I am I am just very much against a non-resident being given a parking pass over their given anything though. Potentially
um a resident losing a spot there. That's that's my issue. I think if you're a non-resident, you have a moing that's nice, but I think this has to stay with residents. I don't know how that's any different from what we do today, Mary Ellen, because it's not stickered and so anybody could park there and take a privilege that I have
with a wreck sticker and park in a spot that I would park in today. So, I'm not Right. But now you're but but now you're saying, "Okay, we're going to be now it's going to be an enforcable enforcable issue." Yeah. But they still have to buy a sticker. It's not like we're giving it to them for free. They still have to even though they have a
moing, they'd have to buy a sticker. Correct. That's right. So, it's not like we're giving them away. And the out of town mooring fees are $2 per foot higher than resident rates. So they're paying slightly higher rate anyway because they're not a resident. Okay. So I think does anybody have any
additional questions or voice concerns or praise? All right. Then I will um entertain a motion if anybody has one. I will make a motion to approve the parking restrictions for Fisherman's Beach as
listed by Officer Rain. I'll second that motion. All those in favor? I I opposed. Since we're doing it all together, I guess I'm opposed. There's pieces I like, pieces I don't. So, yeah. Okay.
Mary Ellen, would you like to reflect a vote? You want me to wait? I said I Oh, I'm sorry. Please put a please put a note next to my name that I I just don't like giving passes out to non-residents. So, I'm sorry because your com your phone
cut out so we could not hear. You voted in the affirmative. Correct. I correct. Okay. Thank you. All right. So, 4 to1 we have voted to pass those recommendations and um Diane, as you are very good at this, if you could make a note in a couple months to circle back and we will
doing that right now. Thank you. and you're very welcome. Thank you all for joining us. Thank you guys for coming. Thank you for the discussion. Um we also have um a lot of folks here to speak on the next agenda item. So I will take the next one. But for after the next agenda
item, I've been asked to move the consent agenda forward because we have a couple people who are waiting to speak on that some items on the consent agenda. So, we'll take discussion and possible vote to allow the chair to sign the settlement agreement between school resource officer Brian Wilson and the
town of Swampscott. Um, we have the chief here and others. He needs a microphone to just sort of explain. Thank you, Marian. [Music] Okay, Chief, if you wouldn't mind. Sure.
Good evening. Thanks, everyone. Uh first off, thank you for recognizing our officers. There was a lot of hard work done with the demonstration this weekend. Absolutely. Uh 17 officers staffed the event. Uh we just want to thank uh the over 600 people in our residence for everyone being on the best
behavior and there was a lot of work done uh behind the scenes to get that ready. So kudos to uh Sergeant Steve Luck. Um, so to speak about the K9 settlement, this is an agreement between the schools and and the town.
I can't necessarily speak for the schools, uh, but I have been involved in the settlement. Just to give a little background story, a little bit of background, uh the Comfort K9 Sora was initiated in October of 22 and that was
uh an agreement between the then town administrator, myself, and uh Superintendent Angelus uh with uh the schools saying that they would fund the the cost of a comfort dog. Um, and then I know
Officer Wilkin can speak more on this. Uh, but, um, they went through, uh, training. The comfort dog itself was Sora was $5,000. Uh, in addition to the training that she has received, uh, there's been a lot of training. So it
came to the attention our attention that uh we should be compensating officer Wilson for u based upon FLSA and Department of Labor standards that uh any individual that is assigned to a K-9
or comfort dog uh must that the rule of thumb is uh shall receive an additional 3.5 hours of uh compensation per week. uh that's that's typically about 30 minutes a day. And so this agreement uh
with the agreement, there is a monetary amount that that should be owed to the officer for the care and upkeep uh of our comfort dog. And so there was an agreement between the schools, the officer, and and us,
the town, uh to settle that agreement, which is uh not the I don't want to speak on the I don't want to speak on the the specifics of the agreement uh unless unless you have Well, I can tell you once it becomes uh
if we agree to sign it, it becomes a public document, so anybody can pull it for its dollar amount. you can tell us the compensation is uh that is owed to the officer is approximately $30,000 uh since October 22. The um officer Wilson
has graciously agreed to accept half of that uh in lie of just um being having the ability to keep Sora and the um the benefits that she brings to our
community. And I can speak uh not knowing much about comfort dogs prior to our experience with Sora, but uh she is part of the like every fabric of the school of the community. She also she
and BRA and officer Wilson uh attend we have many uh persons in crisis calls each year, approximately 50 to 75 a year. And I can tell you firsthand that I've seen officer Wilson bring out Sora
to a an individual and it's not a lot of our children are having this uh mental crisis that need assistance. She has been there and she has been a lifesaver. Uh so just that alone
is so important to us. the use of um of Sora. She is just she has elevated our status in the police department um because of of having our comfort canine dog. In addition, Sora and Officer
Wilson is part of NemLick. When I was thanking the officers who were here, we had 17 officers. We have 12 Swampscott officers. We had five Neml officers. We had five Nemla officers. that was not an additional cost to our town which is a
is very costly. So having Sora as part of our NEML so that's what Nemlck is northeastern Massachusetts Law Enforcement Council is that every Neml community in Essex and Middle Sex County must give 10% of their workforce uh and
and a certain number of hours to Neck each month. She provides that for us. That's where we don't we we get our return on investment for having Sora and um and I I know Officer Wilks can talk about some of the callouts that um he's
been to on the local on the Northshore uh and the impact that she has made on on everyone. I get calls from uh chiefs neighboring chiefs asking if Sora can come by uh after significant events in
their communities. So, I mean, that's the long and short of it. I know Officer Wilson can can talk a little bit more on on what they do. Um, the the other thing I want to highlight here, just from the background that I have on this particular settlement agreement, is that it's it the school department will cover
the cost of this settlement. This is not coming from the town's side of the budget. I know we don't like to talk about sides, but just to be clear, because that is a question that wasn't really clear when chief was speaking. Um, and then I'll just really quickly speak to Sora's impact right here in
this town, which is, you know, on our kids all the time, all day, every day. Officer Wilson and um, Chief Casada have been very um, generous with their time with Sora. They're always donating to the PTO's. They're donating to events so that, you know, we have a raffle and you
get to ride to school um, with a police officer. It's the highlight of the raffle to be honest. It always draws the most funs. Um, it's exciting to have your whole class comes out and watches you come out of the police car and Sora's there and you're like, you know, superstar for the day. It's amazing. Um,
and then also I just want to say, I say this every time you guys come, the positive experience of children with law enforcement is vital to the future of community in Swampscott. And Sora plays a major role in that. to ha to approach
a police officer and see Sora by their side calms people to understand this is a community engagement. It's not meant to be a hierarchical engagement. Um and it's to me that makes it priceless. Um, so I just want to recognize that. And I
think to that point, um, you know, if Sora ran for select board, she would probably win hands down. And every child in this district probably knows Sora firsthand. And that is a testament to Brian Wilson because he has gone above and beyond to make
every child comfortable and acclimated, even children that are afraid of of animals like mine, right? and um you know the the extent of time and effort and humanity you have put into this is I don't think we we have enough to thank
you for um my question is more on the line of how did we get here and how can we avoid this in the future like what what what was the missing link like what did they what was the where did we fail so was it not was it a time sheet issue did we not
submit did we not you know how did this not get rectified sooner is is my bigger question. Was that is there a learning moment here that we can kind of Yeah, I think I think that um that the union had understood or maybe wasn't
aware at the time u because there are now now starting to be a lot of other uh comfort canines in Salem in in other this is the first of its kind and I think that's where they probably heard about that and say wait a minute you know our our officer is doing all this
extra work and and it is it is a lot of extra work on the weekends on their days off and so uh I think it's just in fairness to their the union membership and and officer Wilson. Uh that's how this kind of came up in in other
training with other comfort K9 dogs. Great. And I I will say it was uh it wasn't Officer Wilson who brought this forward. Officer Wilson has never asked for anything extra. And so, not all I I in my prior law enforcement agency, we had a comfort K9
handler. And I can tell you exactly like you said, Danielle, not all uh comfort K9 officers are the same. And so, Officer Wilson has been extraordinary. Mary Dillo, extraordinary. And and I thank you for that. I'm sure everybody
else does well, but is now joining. the the impact is the impact has been lasting. Brian Danielle, just to clarify to chief, if you could speak to how going forward the school will be uh changing the hours so that Right. So
that they we don't run into this again. Yes. Sure. Yeah. So there's no uh there's no additional cost um involved. This is a one-time cost where uh we would adjust his schedule every day to uh to meet the needs of that three and a
half hours per per work week. Okay. So, I'd love to make a motion to approve this before we bid it up. Yeah. Um second. Yeah. Um so, just to say it, we are approving this that I will sign the settlement agreement for officer
Wilson and the town of Swampscott. Been seconded. All those in favor? Hi. Hi. I thank you all very much for coming. Thank you, Officer Wilson. And thank you, Sora. I saw you earlier. I know you're here. Um, while I just asked to move up the consent agenda, our DEI consultants have some time constraints,
so we will go to the DEI consultants next. Maryann, if you just want to maybe give a little background on how we got to this point, like just a quick chief, would you mind? Oh, thank you, Captain.
Okay, working on it for couple hours. Uh, Mary, I believe we can hear you. If you could please mute your mic. Thank you. Thanks, Diane. So, you want you want me to give a little? Yeah, just a little summary of how we got here would be great. Sure. We started in the
fall. Um, we did a social media review. I sent them all the links, uh, the newspapers, magazines, all the different places they could see any interaction in the town of Swanscott. Uh, document review of, um, how emails were sent,
what they look like, just general couple of emails from different department heads. Um, meeting requests or meeting announcements. um gave them access to um pretty much most HR documents like empty
paperwork sort of stuff um and the policy and procedure manual that we have had in place since I think 2022. Um we also did a community survey um in the fall and we did uh an employee
survey. We did a community jam at the library. Um, and this is sort of a culmination of everything that we have done. It's their findings. Um, they did one-on- ones too with certain departments. Um, and uh, they're going
to go through the findings and then there's still a couple of steps left um, which will bring us into the new year, but there's no change in fee. They had a change over in leadership at one point, so it kind of delayed us a little bit. Okay, great. Thank you. So, we welcome
Ready, set. We can't. We cannot hear you. I see you're unmuted and your mouth is moving, but no volume. You hear me now? Yes, we can. Okay, great. Uh, hi everyone. My name is Jesse Turk, go he pronouns. I work for Ready
Set. I'm a principal consultant and facilitator. Um, and I have been working with the town of Swamkit since I think February. Um, and I'm really excited to show you the findings um, as a result of everything Marian has just been speaking about. So, I'm going to go
ahead and share my screen um, so that we can discuss these together. I'll pause for questions um, at certain points, but I just want to make the most use of our time as well. Um, moving into this, just want to offer a few reminders since there's a lot in here. Um, and a lot of
discussions around improvement, want to name that a lot, all of this, I should say, is based in perception, right? But perception, especially in this kind of work that's often subjective, is just as powerful as reality. Um, want to encourage folks that as we discuss questions, we are going to get to solutioning. That's the next step that
Maryanne was discussing. But this is really about just understanding where we're currently at, where we've been, rather than thinking about how we're going to plan for the future just yet. So refrain from judging uh others, others opinions, others perceptions, as well as judging yourself. Um because these these findings do mention
leadership of of swamps as well. Investigate any kind of knee-jerk reactions that come up and get curious about why you're having those. I think it's an important step in understanding um these findings. So, as Marian mentioned, um we had a pretty extensive assessment of the town.
Um we did a document review of all of uh these documents listed here. I'm not going to go over every single one. Uh we did a staff survey of the town staff, which was a 27% response rate, which is 50 respondents. Um we also did a community survey to make sure we captured the community voice. Uh we had
308 respondents, which is actually really great for a community survey. We did listening sessions with the staff both in focus group environments and one-on-one interviews depending on role and and the dynamics there as well as that community jam which was in person um at the library and social media and
news review. Um, so we have a really good sense from different sort of data sources about where things are at. And any kind of uh finding mentioned in here has been corroborated by at least more than two of these data sources. And within those data sources, at least
three mentions of the same thing I'll name. That's our sort of lowest bar. Almost everything in here um was mentioned way more than that. So you want to start with some bright spots. And this is really not to just make you won't feel good, but it's also to consider as leverage points as we
move into how we strategize thinking about where things are going really well in order to use them as tools for improving on the areas where we can see the opportunity for growth. So the first from the staff perspective, this comes from both the survey um as well as our
conversations with staff. The big takeaway is that staff take a lot of pride in their work um in working for Swampscott and they feel supported by their teams in specifically within their departments and they also see real opportunities to grow and contribute as working for Swampscott. So 78% on the survey agreed that they are proud to
work for the town. 75% agreed that when there are career opportunities at the town, they're aware of them. Uh which is rare by the way for municipalities. A lot of the time career transparency is a real issue. Um and team collaboration. 70% of folks agreed that their department works well together as a team. And just to give you a sense, um,
when we do our sort of statistical analysis, anything 70% or above is considered positive agreement. So these are all very positive findings. From the community perspective, residents are really proud to call Swamp Scott home. So you'll notice pride as a general theme here. Um, and definitely
something to consider and and think about as we get into solutioning down the line. um folks feel safe and connected and they really value the spirit of community that local events help foster. So 81% agreed that they're proud to live here. 76% said they felt safe in their neighborhood, which is
obviously extremely important. Uh and 72% said that they felt like they belong in the Swans community, which kind of gets into our larger purpose of being here, which is really about inclusion. How do we make people feel like they belong? 72% already agree. And how do we get that number to be even higher? um as
well as focus in on some of the nuances there, right? Who is saying they belong? Who is saying they don't belong? So before I move into our growth areas, just want to pause for any questions from uh anyone there about the positives
or any of our methodology. Yay for us. I think you're good. You may Wait, I have one question. Could you just tell us that the timing like what months you were doing these studies? Sure. So the survey the surveys happened
in the fall of 2024. The listening sessions happened in late winter early spring of 2025 and the social media review and document review happened also in the fall of 2024.
Thank you. No problem. Okay. So our growth areas are really ways to view where we have the greatest opportunity for impact. Um so we've kind of boiled them down to four main areas. So the first is DEI strategy and approach. So this is really directly
about DEI, but as you'll see DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion isn't just about the things that are considered quote unquote DEI, right? That's really just one piece of the puzzle. equity inclusion really touch pretty much any function that a town can have with its residents and with the
folks that work for it. Um it's really a mindset, right? It's a way of viewing things rather than oh this is this added thing we have to put on. So I really encourage folks to view it that way because ultimately this is about including everyone not just those who have not been included in the past but from a specific DEI strategy and
approach. The town has publicly committed to DEI in the past, but residents and staff experience these efforts unevenly and they report them as tend as they tend to be siloed and more symbolic rather than actual structural changes. And both staff and residents
expressed a desire for deeper DEI integration, broader inclusion, meaning how do we actually include everyone, not just some people, and greater clarity around how actions are meeting those commitments. So really wanting to see action behind words that have been previously stated. And the support for
this in our quantitative data staff survey only 53% agreed they understood how DEI actually applies to their day-to-day work and 31% felt their opportunities to advance are equitable which is super interesting given the high amount that people understand how to grow their their jobs. They actually
don't see the ways that they can actually achieve that. From a community perspective 41% agreed the town communicates clearly about its DEI efforts. So that's really interesting um and something to consider. how are we actually communicating what's being done
um and how are we doing it in a way that a lot of people can access it qualitatively at our community jam uh folks mentioned that these efforts are seen as well-intentioned but generally oneoff and underfunded um and there were lots of calls for greater inclusion beyond just the uh identities of race
and gender. So thinking about identities such as sexual orientation, religion, nation of origin, age, um there's a very long list of social identities to consider. how do we make this a little bit more holistic? Um, and then our in our staff listening sessions, there was a stronger DEI framing in the past that
has faded and staff kind of noted confusion and some resistance um and minimal accountability for DEI practices. And I'll note that some staff stated that they prefer that DEI not continue while others said they wanted it to continue even more strongly. So there is that tension there that we need
to approach and discuss which kind of ties back to how do we make this a broader discussion about inclusion rather than focusing on really specific and maybe outdated perceptions of what DEI actually is. So that's um this first area of DEI strategy and approach. I'll pause for
questions after the second one um just so that we can keep moving but I want to I know there's a lot of information here. I'm also happy to go back slides too. The second area we'll discuss is leadership and decision-making. Um, staff and community members perceive leadership as inconsistent in
communication and accessibility. So, when we talk about leadership here, we're talking about town administrator, we're talking about the select board, we're talking about anyone who is decision-making power. Um, trust in decision-m and accountability is perceived as limited and some staff report fear of offering feedback. So
quantitative data shows that only 38% of staff agree that they can actually provide input on decisions and 29% feel safe sharing their concerns with senior leaders. So in a town where the staff is really proud to work for the town, they also don't seem to be feel like they actually have a say in what happens in
the town. Um, and then the community survey noted that 33% agree that they believe their voice matters in shaping the town's future, which is really low, especially in a town where people are really proud to actually live there, um, and excited about what's going on in the town.
Qualitatively, um, our findings matched pretty well. Uh, the community jam noted that the feedback channels exist, but are only effective if you know the right people. So many field decisions are predetermined. So, they're saying, "Why would I even bother?" Um, and in our listening sessions with staff, staff described having to walk on eggshells
with leadership and that the perceived politics and select or conflicting dynamics affect their morale and trust in leadership. So, I know that's a lot and again I'm going to remind folks not to to refrain from judgment, kind of get into sort of curious about any knee-jerk reactions
since I know this obviously relates to folks here. Um, but I do want to pause for questions um or any comments here before I keep moving with the other two areas and our next steps. I think we're well aware of this. I know what's unfortunate is that none of this
is actually shocking. Um, well, number one, I've already heard it because I've met with the DI consultant before to be fair. Um, but uh I I don't think it would shock any of us to hear a lot of this feedback that's happening. Um, I
think that's why you're here maybe because we at least for me, I could speak for myself feeling like we could be better, we should be better, but we're not sure how to get to better. So, I think that's um, you know, one of the reasons I felt that this was a really
important initiative. Well, it's obviously concerning, right? the screen, this slide itself, um even though we know it exists, to see the numbers in front of you and to see um the feedback from staff and and community is is concerning and I think
that as much as we know it, you know, we maybe need to put we a little bit more action behind the behind the thought, right, to try to see how we can make some changes. And you know, nobody's perfect, but we can certainly be better. And um I think we're we're taking the
steps to do that. I think that's happening at a very timely moment for Swampscott. So um I can only get better from here. But I think to me it just it just continues to highlight the fact that we're not communicating as
effectively uh as we should. Um I mean communication is listed numerous times uh throughout this uh throughout this initial feedback. So, you know, I I'm I'm very interested in really diving in and trying to figure out, you know, if
we have 33% of our community that believe their voice matters, you know, how do we engage the other 60 the other twothirds uh of our community? Um, you know, how do we communicate effectively uh efficiently and and give give those
individuals a voice? And that's that's 33% of those who participated in the survey, right? So, it's a much larger um proportion. David, do you have any data to show like how this relates? I mean, you know, our democracy in general, people are a lot
of people are disengaged. Uh, you know, I'm not trying to minimize this, but just to contextualize it. Um, where does this 33%, you know, kind of compare with other clients that you have, for example? Yeah. For those that we've done community surveys, right, not every
municipality actually is willing to do a community survey. So, I give you a lot of commendment for that. Um but for those that we have done it, it's similar. Um it is it's pretty Yeah, it's pretty similar. It's generally low across the board. Um and
it also depends on the setup of the municipality. Um it depends on the access to meetings like this one. Um access to language appropriate um avenues for providing feedback, right? For instance, other towns that h have
many languages as the norm, there's a barrier there. So, it can be lower. Really depends. But generally, this is a low statistic for most towns. And I think too, I mean, we are at a time where, you know, DEI is being
eliminated, ignored, um, and frowned upon, right? So the fact that Solomskott is actually engaged and interested in continuing with DEI initiatives and in looking to get better says a lot, right? And and that's, you know, um while it
might not be popular, I think people are afraid of it too because not everybody, you know, really understands the nuts and bolts and what it means. And um I think we can see that probably you probably saw that at the community jam or you know with only 50 staff members wanting to fill out you know or respond
you know that kind of speaks on its own. So I think the more that we can highlight and discuss it as a town and as a collaborative group you know the better we'll be for it. Right. I do think there's a a a real chance that people are confused
about this because on one hand we're talking about it as DEI and then another part we're talking about is kind of engagement in general right uh you know these things about uh whether or not people feel they have a voice in shaping the town's future I could say has you
know normal parliament has nothing to do with DEI I think the inclusion piece inclusion part I understand but when you put it in the context of DEI eye. People see it through a certain frame. Right. And they have a preconceived notion of what that is. Exactly. And many people may be blocking it out before you even
finish the three letters. Right. Totally. As opposed to if you're asking a question about community engagement without those letters, it might be a completely different conversation. So I it is a little I have to admit even for me every time we have this conversation I find myself kind of going back and
forth about exactly what is our objective here because I think we entered this through the tunnel of DEI and I think in maybe in collaboration with ready set or through this process we've started to broaden it and the questions asked clearly are broader
right I'll name that um DEI as I agree that DEI as the acronym has become a much more uh fraught acronym um in the past, you know, six months, seven months. Um
that being said, the questions we ask on our surveys with you all are the questions we've asked for the past five years. Um when it comes to when it comes to equity and inclusion, inclusion covers community engagement, it covers communication, it covers feedback. Because really all inclusion is about
and equity is about is how do we set people up for success and how do we make people feel like they can have their opinion heard? How do they how do we make feel like they can engage and they can participate? That's really what those terms are about. Um but understood on the semantics of it and I'm not saying semantics in a in a negative way
that the terminology does matter and allowing people to even feel like they can approach it. Um and it's definitely something we should consider as we get into the strategic planning portion of this engagement. And just to be clear, I wasn't even referring to kind of the the negative spin that's been tried to put
up be put on DEI more recently. Yeah. I mean, like when we as we asked these questions, uh I'm trying to remember the the survey like it didn't say anything about DEI on the survey, did it?
Did they question? Yes. Yep. Okay. you know, um, but it is a good point, right, that these surveys are more expansive because DEI as an actual applied idea is more expansive. It's not just about gender and race. It's not just about historically marginalized
people. It's about a way of operating in a way a more holistic and human- centered fashion. Um, I will keep us moving just for the sake of time. Um, but so our third area is operations and people processes. So, this does mainly relate to staff, but I
will say the community had a lot to say about it. Um, so in general, there were operational inconsistencies in hiring, onboarding, and accountability practices based on what we reviewed. Um, and those seem to also contribute to perceptions of unfairness and favoritism among
staff. Um but these gaps actually extend to what is felt by the community in public facing systems like the town website where unclear processes and outdated information information seem to limit access and trust. Um so quantitative data showed that staff just
35% agree people are held accountable consistently and 39% felt they received sufficient onboarding. Uh we're in the community survey. Respondents described variable service quality and access depending on the department or individual they interact with which is super in line with what we heard from
staff as well. That departmentto department people operate completely differently and that you worry about what your department does. I don't know what the other department does. That bleeds over into how the community experiences the town. Um and in qualitative data um there was a strong
call for mandatory DEI training, onboarding support and transparency. Um and in our listening ste uh sessions with staff uh workplace culture was named as sort of shaped by favoritism informal networks. Um but there was a very strong positive outlier at the
library. So I want to bring that up because the library um both perceived by folks who work there and others at the town is seen as a real positive example for how inclusion and equity is uh being done really well. So just one of that on the record as well.
And then the last area I'll touch on before we move into our next steps here are is culture and engagement. So while staff take pride in their work and their teams, many sort of feel disconnected from the broader organization and unsupported emotionally. Um and that kind of leads to reported burnout, low
recognition, and inconsistent communication. And that ultimately contributes to disengagement. And I'll name that disengagement is a a main hallmark and flag of a lack of inclusion. Right? If you can't feel like you can engage, you cannot share in what is going on. And that's ultimately what
inclusion is all about. So quantitative data showed that staff, the staff survey, while 78% are proud to work for the town, only 33% feel recognized for their work. And I'll name that is really unique. U most places where you don't feel recognized for your work, you tend
to lose pride in who you're working for. Right? If they don't recognize me, why would I care about them? That is not the case of a town, but it's also probably not something to take advantage of. that's probably something to really focus on first. How do we recognize people so that they can continue that pride and strengthen that pride? Um and
30% say communication is timely and transparent. So that is another area similar to what uh you had mentioned. Uh communication is a really key piece of this. Um in the community survey, community members see some staff as engaged and others as cold or dismissive. Um, this is an assumption
and a perception from our our perspective based on having worked with lots of communities that if someone feels like they're burning out, they're not well recognized, that they're not engaging well, that tends to come off as um not engaging well with the folks that they're actually working with.
Qualitatively um in the community jam there was a lot of discussion of the website um of how it is not something that folks can engage with and therefore people just don't want to uh and don't then know what's going on or or don't have the information they need to engage properly with town events. Um they also
noted that Facebook as a main form of communication is not preferable. Uh some folks named it as toxic. Um especially the interactions that some leaders have on Facebook um who are sort of official representatives of the town seeing the
way that they interact on Facebook uh was really disheartening for for community members and that it's uh contributed to a sense of fragmentation um in terms of uh neighborhood and life experience and that that town culture is not universally welcome depending on where you live. um a lot of discussion
of the wrong side of the tracks, the right side of the tracks um and listening sessions. There was a strong desire for more meaningful connection between departments um as well as transparent communication um opportunities to just know what other people are doing to get to know folks in
other departments um especially if you're not working physically in town hall. Um so I will oh I'll just also name what came up in our document review social media analysis. This corroborates most of what we heard um and is a useful
starting point especially for um how we update policies and I know Maryanne is already kind of on updating some of these policies from an HR perspective. So I just wanted to name that as well. Um but the policies that we reviewed were uh they reflected kind of exclusionary defaults that are pretty
common from older types of documents. So really Christianric holidays, abbleist language, vague reporting structures, um, and a lack of trauma-informed structure for feedback processes. How do we give feedback in a way that's actually useful to all kinds of people, not just one way of doing it? Um,
interviews and hiring tools lack consistency and they had sort of outdated job classifications that may introduce bias um, reinforcing perceptions of favoritism. And there were also missed opportunities to ask about belonging and inclusion and psychological safety, especially in exit processes. Um, so just showing that
we're even focusing on that and wanting to learn more about it is could be a huge win. From the social media and news perspective, uh, public discourse around past DEI controversies have remained unresolved and that has fueled mistrust. Um, that came up in the community gem as well. Online feedback revealed a high
value placed on veteran support and neurodiversity inclusion, but disability access seems to feel unre unrepresent under reppresented I should say. um communication and visual storytelling tend to skew towards certain demographics and calls there were calls for greater age ability and cultural
representation in visual storytelling that is representing the town. Um and there were also engagement gaps that suggest residents want more clarity and purpose behind DEI language and action with more transparency and emotional intelligence and leadership. So really
what this boils down to is what's written down on paper seems to um lend itself to some of the things people are saying in our listening sessions and from a social med media and news review uh piece. This kind of ties back to what came up in the culture and engagement
area of our conversation. Before I move on to our recommendations, just wanted to pause one more time for any questions or comments. I just want to acknowledge the parallels between our community at large and our community in town hall or under our
employment and how the tone of the community at large is directly correlates with the tone of what folks feel in town hall. and so many parallels. Even the language that
that was being used here, you know, uh town staff feels burnt out and underappreciated. People feel disengaged. People feel like they're not being heard at um at some level. So you know I think regardless of what we call
it uh our communication needs you know a step up to regardless of whether we in reality feel like we are communicating at 100% the perception is we are not and as we discussed earlier perception fuels
reality whether it is reality or not so I think you know it's important for us to take a step back and say Okay, maybe the ways we've been doing things aren't working or we could see them through a different lens or we can try something
different um in order to try. And I mean the request for me would be that we have the space from the community. It seems like we do because we're engaging in this process to make mistakes, to try things, to find things that don't work, find things that work, find things that,
you know, we have to make work better. So hopeful, but um probably a lot of work here. Definitely a lot of work here. I'll also name that there's always when it comes to municipalities and towns and and cities,
those responding to community surveys and community engagement are those that are tend to already be engaged. Um, so I just I agree with what you're saying in terms of the parallels and it tends to be people who know a little bit at least what's going on with staff and know
what's going on in the town. They come to town meetings, they are aware of what's going on in the community at least somewhat and they can see those gaps because they're looking and they're paying attention. Um, for respond for those, you know, the many people um in town that did not respond, it's hard to
know if they would be aligned as well. Um, but the folks that do respond for community surveys and listening sessions and things tend to also be the culture carriers, tend to be example setters. They're the ones that are going to step up and say, "Yeah, I'll plan that event if you give me the space to, "Yeah, I'll
brainstorm with you. Yeah, I'll give you the grace to make a mistake and offer feedback if you say you want that." That kind of thing. Any other questions before I move on to the next steps here? Um, I do have a question. Can you just uh because I didn't hear how many how
many staff did you say 50 staff responded to your survey? That's correct. Yeah. And does that staff is that that's town staff? That's not school pool staff. What is the total town that 300? Um this did not include school staff at
all. So I will name that. Um but this included all other town staff. Um I don't know what the total for the town staff is. says a 27% response rate. So So about 200 about 200. Yeah. Because this also included this included um you know
police, fire department, library, senior center, town hall. Yeah. And uh my next question is when you did you go through all of our policies and procedures? We went through whatever was we went through whatever was sent to us
which is the very limited document from 2022 not the new handbook. So okay so not the new handbook and then what about so I'm just wondering does how does that compare to all uh best
practice policies and procedures? Do we do everything best practice? No. So, as as sort of I sort of mentioning here, not not quite not yet. Um, there's a lot there has been a lot of room for growth there. Um, and that's
something we're I know Marian's already been working on in order to kind of update a lot of that. Um, and that's something we'll also strategize to support you on. That might be that might be a good segue to our next chapter or areas of growth.
Yes. Thank you for that. Um, so we want to name potential ways we can grow, uh, potential ways we can move forward. And we have lots of examples of how to do this. Um, we're not going to name them all here tonight because that would make this last quite a while longer. Um, but these are some main buckets of of areas
that are avenues for growth and there will be more discussed in our strategy sessions as well. Um, but one area is leadership training and coaching. Given the disconnect between uh staff and leadership right now, the discon
uh giving feedback to leadership, how does leadership become culture carriers of a more inclusive environment uh for town staff? Um many folks both on our survey and in our community jam noted a need for a community welcome initiative. How do we make people who are new to town um or not as engaged in town feel
more welcome? This could be pamphlets. This could be actual, you know, ambassador program, um, things like that. People were already excited to volunteer to support that learning and development opportunities for staff. This was requested both by staff and by community members. This would be uh, you
know, DEI training or we don't want to call it that, which is totally fine. Still community and feedback training, uh, leadership training, people management training, that kind of thing. Um, there was also a lot of discussion around website prioritization and reorganization. Um I recognize that that
is a budgetary concern. Um but it is something that feels high priority for especially for community members. Uh bringing up the idea of uh creating townwide community communication norms and guidelines. So regardless of what department you work in, regardless of what section of uh the town you work
for, here's the way we operate. Here are the things we say. Here are the ways we communicate with each other in different situations. And that's set across the town. So creating some consistency in that area. um as well as communication norms and guidelines for how the town communicates
with community members. Similarly, feedback mechanisms and processes again townwide both for internal staff and for how feedback for the town can work from the public. Um also naming other cross department systems and processes. So,
this kind of ties back to what you were just mentioning. Um, when it comes to hiring, when it comes to exit processes, when it comes to um the handbook that that Maryanne was talking about, all those things that kind of make working at the town feel more inclusive from
structural perspective. Um, and then lastly, a lot of what the community brought up was about events. um how do we make events more inclusive? Not just from a race and gender perspective, but from a wide array of um of identity and access perspectives with a strong focus
on disability inclusion. Um accommodations for folks with uh different types of disabilities, not just physical ones. Um such as, you know, sensory disabilities, medical conditions, um things like that. Um so creating some sort of guideline uh system or checklist uh depending on what
would work best for those who plan those things. And so just to give you a sense of uh how we move forward from here. So right now we're in this transparency area aligning on findings making sure that we're discussing this with you all making sure that this report is available um at some level to the
public. Um I believe it is now because this session is public. Um and making sure that there's space for questions which we're discussing right now. From there we move into our strategy sessions. So we have a couple strategy sessions that are uh sort of formal strategic facilitated conversations with
myself and my colleague um that will create our goals, our priorities, our objectives, our actions, all that to ultimately culminate in a roadmap that will be a tool that is a dynamic tool. It's a living document um that can be used as a central focus for how we move
forward. Um from there we highly recommend getting feedback on the road map before we make it official. Um that can come from stakeholders both within town hall as well as community members. Um many community members uh stated that they really would like to be able to see the road map um and offer that feedback
even if we don't take it right even if we say you know what thank you for that feedback unfortunately we can't do that for XY reason that would be preferred rather than not having the chance to get feedback at all. Um and then we move into of course the implementation phase phase, right? How do we actually go about doing all this stuff? How do we
what goes when which is will be part of the road map or timeline. Um and how do we share in the effort, right? Because community members have stated that they would like to share in the effort. Um this is not all need to fall on leadership. Um in fact, it can't that would be way too much to do. Uh so we definitely encourage sharing that
effort. And that will conclude this presentation. But I'll leave room for questions one more time in case anyone has any. Yeah. Jesse, would you be able to go back to the previous uh the previous slide, the potentials avenue potential avenues for
growth? Yeah. Just let me let me reshare. Sure. There you go. Yep. Thanks. So, just one of my one of my hopes here is to make sure that this next chapter, these potential avenues for growth, this this
plan that we're formulating, that we're working with our consultants uh to accomplish that it just doesn't sit in that it's not completed and goes and sits in a drawer. This is going to require commitment from from us. It's going to require commitment from the community. It's going to require
financial commitments. Um, and these are things that, you know, just looking at communi again, communications, it's website prioritization and reorganization. I mean, we really need to look at how we're disseminating information. Uh, and not just putting it on Facebook and not just sending out a
newsletter, but actually having a professional who can who can help guide us through this process. It's it's it's extensive. I mean, when I started this, we had a, you know, we had a a an executive assistant to the to the town
administrator and to the select board who also then morphed into communications director and then uh and then, you know, she was gone. Uh, and that kind of fell by the wayside. You know, just kind of looking at the other avenues for growth, leadership, training and coaching, learning and development
opportunities for staff. There was employee recognition that was mentioned earlier. I mean, these are all things that we had. we we we did cut those out of our budget uh in fiscal year 26. So I think if you know if if we are to be serious about this, we do we have to
make as a board as as the chief policymaking board within the town, we have to make a commitment financially to this uh as well. So I I just want to state that and I will seed my time. Thank you. And I think, you know, some of this
stuff doesn't necessarily have to cost a lot, right? R right at the beginning anyway. Um the website to me has been an albatross of a of a thing. I mean, it really does, no offense to anybody at all, but um a lot of times we don't have
enough information. We don't have it's not, you know, it's not interactive. It doesn't give residents the feeling that they can communicate with us. I think um you know like a couple months ago a resident had suggested like a suggestion box just literally you know somewhere they could go and deposit like
suggestions in in ways and that that's fairly simple to do on a website but I was going to ask Marzy I don't know if there are grants out there or anything for municipalities for website improvement I thought there was seen that in some towns there's technology
assistance that we can seek um and actually uh part of the um the work that we have done with the department of housing and livable communities um uh were a community that listed technology as a one of the issues that we should be looking at. Um so maybe that's an avenue
that we can explore to at least check that one off which which might not be a a big ask. Um but you're right, you know, we did just go through a very difficult budget cycle. I don't think we necessarily cut everything out for development of staff or or training and coaching, but we certainly scaled it
back. Um, but I think it's, you know, I I think that I think one of the pieces of feedback was that we operate a lot in silos. So that's something that we have control over that we can kind of direct a little bit more collaboratively to understand each department and their
needs for training for things that you know you might have some departments that don't necess necess necessitate as much training as others right so you know to know that we need to you know engage the department heads and understand really which ones are lacking and that's kind of you know something
that Maryanne maybe can focus on um you know but it is a big bite there's a lot here there's a lot of good information and it's, you know, it's all stuff that is good for us to know and but you're right, we can't just let it sit in a drawer. We need to action it and that has to start here. There's really
nowhere else for that to go. I'll name that while we list all this here like a menu of options, it does not all have to happen at once. I think as long as you communicate out when things will happen right and you know name when there are changes in that schedule which
will inevitably happen that's very positive that'll be a very positive change um for people just to see okay this is what's happening this is when someone is accountable for this this is why it changed um I will name something we always say which is that perfection
is the enemy of the good right like progress is so much more important um so you know as as you were saying, you know, things there are certain things on here that are free, right? Creating communication norms and guidelines, that's just conversations and planning
and approving it. Um, you know, cross department systems and processes, that's something that you all can do internally and we are happy to consult on that, but understand that that can be expensive as well, right? So, how there are definitely things on here that can be done for free, things that are somewhat
costly and things that are more costly. Um, so I think it's about prioritizing if your budget is is shifting, where are the things where we're going to put money towards it? Where are the things where we can ask for volunteers? Um, and and kind of get into the the sort of details of that as we get into our strategic planning.
I wonder too, Jesse, if it makes sense just from um the feedback like I know these you said this is a menu, but there must be a hierarchy, right? Things that feel like more bang for the buck, right? And the community really would like to see more than others. So maybe if we could do some sort of like um
prioritization grid where it's like okay this is a high priority but it's a high cost but this is a low priority low cost but high priority low cost and so that we could help prioritize some of these things going forward right you just named the first exercise of our strategic planning session so
congratulations. Thank you. It's like tailor made. Yeah. Perfect. Well we look forward to that. We thank you if everybody's good. Yeah. Thank you, Jesse. Thank you very much for your time and we look forward to the work now.
Thank you all. Appreciate it. Have a good night. Okay. Now, with the indulgence of the board, I will move the consent agenda just because we do have a couple of folks um who are here on behalf of the consent agenda. Uh so, if everybody's
okay with that. Um, so I just want to pull the I'd like to amend the discussion and possible vote on the hawker pedallers license. Um, it became fisherman's and Philip speech. I spoke with the applicant and um, they're
just looking for fisherman's not fisherman's and I think it was an ore originally and so they're they're just looking at fisherman's right now and they're comfortable with that. Um, so that's number four. So, um, we just
propose that amendment. So, you're pulling that or just um, no, I mean, I can't make a motion, but I guess if I could, I would say it would just be read fisherman's speech and not fisherman's and Phillips um, so that it could remain in the consent agenda as amended.
I just have a question about that. So, do I want to pull it through? Sure, let's pull it then. Okay. Okay. So uh what remains on the consent agenda is the discussion of the appoint reappoints, the discussion and possible vote on Andrea's Takaria on the alteration of
premises um and the state I'm sorry the real estate tax exemption um that we voted on town meeting and the minutes. So moved. Second. Yes. Uh can you pull the water and sewer commission and Andreas
Takaria? Sure. questions on that water and sewer advisor. Wait, uh waterfure infrastructure advisory. You want to pull that, right? Pull that. And Takaria and Takaria. Okay. So, we are pulling
one I two and four. And we have a motion. Yep. So, moved as amended or moved. Yeah. Yep. Second. All those in favor of approving the consent agenda? I I Okay. Moving on to then um we'll go to
um the pedaller's license first. Doug, just a quick question. So, what will that mean, George? You'll have a a vehicle there. 10 by 10. Okay. Marian, would you mind just passing your microphone over just so folks at home can hear? Thank you.
Appreciate it. Yeah. Similar to what a a farmers market would be. 10 x 10 tent all weighed down, display table, table for a thing, a a griddle. um couple coolers and uh everything will be inside
the tent um you know Wednesday we're giving you a pass basically to be there anytime any day anywhere between June 19th and September 30th I mean no seriously what is yeah I understand yeah so so my thinking was like 11:30 till 6:37
um Wednesday through Sunday I'm also going to be doing the swamps farmers market and other events so I'm not going to be there all the time. Um, and really just open to like feedback and you know, I mean, people aren't come coming there at 9:00 a.m. or at midnight, you know, I
mean, but but reasonable hours. Um, do you have any any thoughts about that? Are we going to give him a recreation pass in order for him to have a spot there at Fish Beach? Um, he probably already has one, I bet. You should get one free, though. So, I think his suggestion was 11:30 to 6:30.
Yeah. Um, and you said Wednesday to Sunday. Yeah. And and I'll I and I think the person that I'll be interacting with the most is Jeff on. Yep. Okay. So, that'll get set up like in a parking spot or No, no, no. Um uh you know where the um on the grass side
where the there's a bench and then Oh, on the grass. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Yeah. I'm not going to take off parking. I Yeah, he knows after the last conversation. And and you know, depending on busyness, you know, if it starts to be like what am I doing here at noon or what am I
doing here going till 6:30? Oh, this is a new thing or new thing. Brand new. Great. Y exciting. Yeah, it is exciting. I don't have a problem though. Okay. So, um I'll take a motion on that item. Second. All in favor? I I Okay, thank
you. Um we'll move to um water and sewer infrastructure because um Mary Ellen, are you able to talk about that now or do you want to? Yeah, I'm going to talk about that. I just wanted to mention that I had sent an email both to the advisor and to the
chair that I'm in support of Andrea my being um appointed to this committee especially as the founder of King's Beach and all the work that she does. And I also would like to recommend Lauren Fischer. I know Lauren was
finishing her term, but I know that she has expressed um interest in the possibility of staying on. So I just wanted to make sure I could share that with the other members of the board because I don't want to break break open meeting law. Okay. I think those are my
only comments. Thank you. You want to speak? Yes. Yeah. So to that point uh we have you know we have reopened um you know we've Diane has uh has just reopened the um
you know she she has a yeah she has the application process. Sorry my brain's not working uh right now. Um but uh the application process is open. I believe it's open through the end of the end of June. Oh, two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Two weeks. So, we're gonna have uh so everybody who's already who has already
applied will be considered uh and new applications uh will also be considered and we'll be taking that up. Uh I I just I do need to uh to have a to have a conversation with the uh with the chair uh the new chair of uh of water sewer infrastructure advisory and we will take
that up uh at a meeting in July. So, we're just doing the the renewals basically right now. No, these are actually these are appointments. Yeah, these are these are appointments that were recommended. These are alternates that are being they're all being that are being elevated to full full members. Yes. Okay. Got So, I'll take a motion on
the water. So, moved. Second. Second. In favor? I I Okay. Um, Andrea's Takaria. Then, uh, the only question I have on Andrea's Takaria is is Marissa there? I just want to know, do we have to put the actual
location? It says outdoor dining. I'm just, uh, want to make sure that that's really clear. What What does outdoor dining mean? Does it have to be more explicit? Well, Marz is here, so I will No, I'll just I'm here, too. I'm online. Sorry about that. Go ahead. That's okay.
I just joined. Um, so as a clarification, this is all within your jurisdiction as the local licensing authority. There's no subsequent paperwork that then needs to be filed with the ABCC. Um, so we can when I
print when I furnish the liquor license for Andre's Takaria, the one that ultimately gets hung up in the store, we can totally specify that the outdoor dining is relegated solely to the patio um, right outside of his restaurant. I think that's perfectly fair.
Okay. Okay. Um, so I would like to make sure we do that, especially in light of the fact that we have had people come down in the neighborhood and express some issues with that. And I'm pretty confident that um the owner is in support of that, too.
He is. He's nodding his head. If you were here, you would see him. Can't see anything. Okay. Oh, well. So I will entertain a motion then for an for Andrea Takaria. So moved. Second. All in
favor? I I Okay. Thank you. That concludes the consent agenda. Thank you for the indulgence and we will move on to the TA search committee update. Nobody's here for that. We have a simple memo. Okay. Oh, we do. I'm sorry about
that. Yeah. All right. I will read it from Heather Roman. The town administrator screening committee requests your vote on June 18th to extend the search time frame by 30 days. This will extend our time to July 2020 25th, 2025 based on the timeline presented to you at our May 7th meeting.
We expect to request one more extension after this. Thank you. Okay. I mean, I know we've all been involved in the conversations with the consultant. Um I think he's well on his way now. Uh, we feel like I I feel like we're moving in
um a positive forward motion. Um, so I'm h I'm happy to consider this, but anybody else? I am too. I'm quite Are they only allowed to do 30 days at a time? Is that why I believe that's correct. Yeah. So, here we are again.
Okay. All those in favor? I I very good. All right. We're moving right along now. Um, Katie, does everybody have the the timeline again? Can you send out the timeline? Sure. Or what their process is. I just I
couldn't seem to find it yesterday. I'll send it out. Yes, somebody will send it out. If it's Diane or Maryanne or for public consumption, I think it has gotten longer than at least I think what I said the last time we talked about this publicly. So, we are now talking
about August. August, right? August. Correct. Um, yeah. I I believe it's due to they're accepting applications now through the beginning of July and then they're going to start the interview process and I'm pretty sure they're looking at 20 applicants already. So, right. Yeah, that's what his email said
the other day. Okay. Yep. Um when the applications closing, do we know is there a fin year? Yes. End of June. End of June. End of June. Okay. Maybe if there is a TA search um part of
the website, although we've just said how inadequate the website is, but we could update the timeline that way if somebody were to find it can make sure it's accurate. Um item number six will be tabled until next meeting as um the community host
agreements were not yet ready for discussion. Um there was some back and forth um with both parties and councils. So we'll table that till um next meeting. Review determination and consent pursuant to mass rules of professional
conduct from KP law concerning the representation of the town of Swampscot and NAT relative to the interpunicipal agreement for the shared building commissioner service. Um, so this came up because KP Law represents Nihant and Swampscott. Um, as they represent many
municipalities, um, and we asked them to prepare an agreement um, an intermunicipal agreement um, for us to share the building commissioner and because they have um, a conflict of interest, we have to wave it. So um,
that is why this is on here. Um, happy to answer any questions or otherwise. Is that is it your recommendation that we wave it? I do not represent the town in any capacity. However, I spoke with town council and obviously it's their recommendation. It's a straightforward
process. Um their representation of Nihant doesn't change. Yeah. You know, they're they're not gaining anything additional out of the relationship other than they represent both parties. Um so it seemed pretty straightforward. It seems pretty straightforward. Yeah. So
moved. Second. All in favor? I I Okay, cruising now. Wait, I have a question on that. How about we just wave when are we going to have the when are we going to have the agreement? Well, I believe I I believe we will have the agreement as soon as we wave the conflict. They could
not give it to us before we wave the conflict or else they would be practicing outside of professional conduct rules. Right. Okay. So, I will I will ask tomorrow. Have it at the next meeting. Maybe Friday. Maybe Friday. I'll I'll ask tomorrow. But they don't have days. I
don't have the day off, unfortunately. Okay. Hawthorne Reuse Advisory Committee. We have our chair here. Welcome. Thank you for waiting. Well, that's all right. Um, should I go ahead, please? Okay. I just have a brief
report. My name is Brian Watson. Um, our committee's had six meetings so far. Uh, we have the seventh one next week. Um we've we've been trying to meet every two weeks to kind of keep the pressure on ourselves and um all the meetings are
public and we welcome comments. Um in our in our earliest meetings we spent some time uh discussing the committee's mission generally um and spent some time you know getting a handle on what that mission required
of the committee. It wasn't, you know, necessarily easy because, uh, the committee is diverse with 13 people. So, it took some serious discussion, but but but I think we did a good job of it. Um, we then sort of went into a sort of
research phase. We investigated the site as a group. We visited the the Hawthon site as a group. We talked about the history of first 13 people. So, it took some serious discussion, but what in the world? Go ahead.
Uh we talked about the history of Humphrey Street, history of the development of the site, you know, from say 1900 to the present and it varied quite a bit. Um we talked briefly about the conservation issues that that any development will have to respect. Uh we
also generated a list of factors and considerations, goals, realities, criteria, etc. There isn't necessarily a limit to it. um factors with which uh we are and will evaluate and compare the plans. We're
sort of in the process of uh evaluating them now, but but we aren't rushing to conclusions. We we're leaning this way or that way, but we're still really in an investigative uh phase. Eventually, we'll, you know, reduce the number and
we'll start to become probably tighter about comparing the plans. Um some of the factors uh in that list of factors, some of the factors wouldn't surprise you. you know, the financial viability of any plan, the environmental pros and
cons of any plan, um the amount of green space or park space, u the amount of building construction, the amount of parking, the potential popularity of the of of the plan in terms of how will the town feel about plan XYZ
uh and many more factors. Um, we are also engaged in educating ourselves. You might remember when I was here a year or so ago and I said that one of my criticisms of the last process was that the consultant kind of skipped any
consciousness raising about the many aspects that a town could use to compare plans. You know, um, we're we're trying to fix that. We're trying to say there are many things that that people could look at. many people will have
uh items that they think are more important than others. So we as a committee we we feel like we would like to be fairly educated in various aspects. We all bring something to the to the committee. Um but we feel that's
sort of a way to model u what we hope the citizenry citizenry ultimately will will do. uh and we also think that it it it will ultimately help us pick a better plan. Um so we've looked at a range of
things to to uh educate ourselves and we don't stop. We sort of it's a process that sort of overlaps and is simultaneously with evaluating plans. Uh I mentioned we're in a research investigatory phase. We have drawn I think 18 or 19 site plans and they are
concept plans meaning they they they they show an outlined footprint of buildings and their arrangement on the site and we've drawn them deliberately uh kind of ranging from the most green space say a maximum green space up to
say a most you know most building construction uh plan. So so if you look at the drawings are on the website. So as you look at them, as you go from the beginning to the end, you you see that you kind of see it's loose, but you see an increasing amount of building on the site. Um you could call it less to more
development. And the other thing that's interesting is the ideas represented in the plans uh come from many people. So uh different people have suggested different things and we've the committee's tried to tried to sketch any
sort of plausible re uh reasonable plan concept. Uh uh we you know we we we think we've captured most of the concepts and in fact we've even started to modify some of the concepts. You know, the committee looks at these plans
and they say, you know, okay, this has a feature here alike and this this but this other plan has a feature. Can we compare uh can we combine the two? So the the plans are by no means uh etched in stone and we encourage anybody everybody in town to look at them and
hey see something if they if they think something is missing if citizens think something is missing now is the time to please let us know because you know although we're evaluating the plans we we haven't gone deep into you know discarding plans. Uh if I could stop you
right there Brian I just have a couple of questions. I'm sorry. Okay. Um, so where is the input coming from? So when you say people, you know, suggest different ideas like a random people just emailing the committee to say I
would like to see what this plan looks like or is it the committee itself and into and to my to further elaborate on that, how do we get from 18 schematic designs to a decision on what exactly is going to go there, right? How what does
that process look like and you know yeah um the ideas have come from a variety of places. We started off with many plans that came from the earlier process. Uh out of that process came some green
space plans um some plans with a modicum of street buildings. Um some many many of the plans came from the ideas of people on the committee. Okay. Um and and the the last one would be as you said it
sounds funny but random ideas from citizens many I mean many citizens have spoken to me and said is this is this a reasonable idea? Right. and and uh so my only question my reason for asking that question is at what point do we say it
is too cumbersome that we are at a massive number of plans and how do we whittle it down to what is eventually going to be there and I think that my my concern comes from when are we actually going to engage the whole community to understand y which
one they want right how long do we continue to you know vet different options And you know as we do we waste more and more time. I don't mean to say waste time but spend. Yeah. Yeah. Takes more and more time right. And we want people to be involved but we also want to get something there at some point.
That is when we started when we Yeah. Sorry if I just might go ahead. I think when we diverted from the original process to this process, the two things that we felt like I I think we echoed to the committee that were most important
is that it be a transparent and public process. And that is because people felt like the process that we originally had was neither. Right. So I think what's important about the transparency part of the process is that there's a really clear criteria that you
guys present At some point there will be public engagement. Hopefully it will be, you know, sooner rather than later, but it can be overwhelming to present 18 ideas, right? So when I think about it, you know, if the committee creates a criteria and says, okay, we started with 20 and we got down to 10, but this is
the criteria we used, then you're one enabling public input into the criteria to say maybe you did this wrong or that wrong, but then also you're a enabling public comment into the 10 ideas you have. Yeah. So, I don't I don't know if that's the right answer, but to me it
feels like we need to both have a transparent process which makes it really clear how the committee got to where it was when it's then engaging the public on what the feedback is. Because if the public comes back again and says, "Well, none of this represents what I thought I was saying when I sat
in this room and expressed my frustration with the original process." Then we have a second failure on our hands. Right? So, at what point do we say, "Okay, here are the 18 ideas out." I know they're on the website. And let me just cut you off because I can help you out with this. When you you did sort
of interrupt my talk, I was about to say the committee, you know, moves uh steadily. Not I don't want to say slowly, but we're methodical. We move but we do move steadily. And we've had a lot of meetings and we have reached some conclusions. We are no longer looking at
18 plans. There are 18 plans there. The point of putting those all on the website is we do want the town to see that we looked at all those plans and some of those plans that we have already decided as a committee we don't like. Some people weren't happy with that. We
so and and I mean so what what plans have we eliminated already? If you look at say the first four or five or six on the site we have as a committee you know said those don't let me give you an example. There was a plan. There was one
plan that was just completely park. I'm using this example only because it's simple simple and easy to describe. One plan was all green, all park. Now, a lot of people probably a lot of people would support that, but the committee because the committee's been uh
so how did you come to that? Right. Okay. the committee as a group had a big discussion about it and and one of the things our committee as a group all 13 of us are doing is are we're saying things like will the financial pros and
cons of a plan play a role in this and the whole committee said yeah the whole committee said we can't have a plan that's only money going out we need a plan that generates some revenue now we haven't decided the balance but the committee was was unanimous with with
one you know maybe that um a park would cost a lot of money. It would cost 10 to 12 million to develop the whole site as a as a good park now. I mean a really top-notch park. You take the Hawthon down, that's 500,000 plus the asphalt is
75,000. So you're 600,000 to demolition, you're another 10 million to build the park. And then every year you have a certain amount uh of maintenance. You know, it's 30,000 a year probably to maintain it. And I talked with Gino Cester about what they pay the contractors who maintain our green
space. So that's money that would go up. And now you get a beautiful park, but the but the committee as a whole said, "Look, we could we could do a substantial amount of green space, have a really large park, but if we just for as an example, if we put a row of buildings along the street and a little
bit of parking, we could generate 100 or 200,000 a year in property taxes. So it so that so we have reached conclusions but we are trying to go slow enough as a committee because we're a we're a strong
willed bunch of people. We're trying to respect you know everybody's desire to to weigh in and speak and we will we will move fast enough. We've we've as a committee we've set our goal to finish by November. You know I mean that that's
the goal to finish by November. the restaurant is there until December 1st. Um, so so that's six, that was six months, right? So that was a sixmonth process. That's extremely fast for what we're trying to do. You know, this this
is a challenging site. Um the other decision we made as a whole committee was if the site remains just the Hawthon site not not the church lot too but if we only end up with the with the Hawthon site the committee agreed that the
restaurant should come down the Hawthon restaurant should be demolished. That's what that was that was the committee's thinking. I'm not saying it's yours and I'm not saying that's what happens. All I'm saying is our committee is trying to, you know, we sort of feel liberated
that what you want from us is our best intellectual analysis and what you, you know, we'll give you the recommendation and if you don't like it, you won't take it. But we couldn't we couldn't rationalize if the site is only the one site. How
does a town that just paid 7 million to buy this because they were told there would be a park and no restaurant. How do you how does the town come back and say, "Well, oops. We're going to just rent it out for another restaurant." That didn't feel right to us. and and the finances. I don't know what the
finances would be on that, but as a committee, um, all I'm all I'm saying is as a committee, it was unanimous. Uh, so I I understand the processes that you're going through and I understand they're cumbersome and that there's a lot of
personality and a lot of opinions and I don't envy your position because it's a really hard I think of all the committees we've seated, this is a very difficult committee, right? Um what I do hope is yes what you first said about you know you we assembled a team of
intellectuals sophisticated people to have conversation about that property but I don't want you to lose the pulse of the community. Absolutely. We so I think that's important to just and that doesn't mean you're not doing it. I just want to iterate that
it you can absolutely have your opinion but you want it to be rooted in something that you feel like is representational of the community's viewpoint. So for example your example about the park if if the community overwhelmingly wanted it to be 100% open space and it was going to cost 10 million. Sure you can present something
to say well if it was 90% open space we could fund the open space by having this 10% be commercial. That's absolutely plausible. But maybe what we shouldn't do is then dismiss it because the committee doesn't believe that it's the best decision going forward. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. I I want to say
two things. You mentioned the public process, I mean the public exposure. A couple of times our committee has actually articulated in the committee. I raised it one time and I said, "Do you think it's time for us to, you know, put all the drawings in the wall of the gymnasium and have the people come by?" and we talked about it a lot, but
because there were a lot of drawings and because the committee I mean the consensus on the committee was no way because the committee itself didn't feel like it even had its own ground to stand on. We just felt we would be buffeted left and right by 150 citizens who would
just give us, you know, many different opinions, which is which is great. But but I hope you understand that the the committee itself is 13 people. And believe me, democracy of this town is represented just in our committee. So
it's like we know there are a lot of people that want that would that would like to hold Green Park. We know there are people who would like to cover with buildings. It's it's almost in a sense at this point as as a couple of people in the committee said it wasn't useful,
you know, and don't get me wrong on that. We're we're very interested in integrating with the community. Yeah. Just just comments and and a couple questions. So, Brian, so thank you to you and and your and your committee for this work. This is this is a heavy lift.
So, uh certainly thank you. Um, I've tried to follow some of the meetings and watch on Teams. It's It's very difficult to hear. It's very difficult to follow. Yeah. Doing. Um, I know that you're, you
know, you're trying to have a dialogue amongst your team and you're sitting around a table, but I'm just curious if there's a way to to present that a slightly better on television because I know one of your criticisms before was the process and that it was behind
closed doors. Yeah. This is a public process. However, it's still it's still difficult for me um to follow. And it's if it's difficult for me and it's difficult for those in the audience, I I I I just I just want to I just want to proide that. Is it because you can't see the drawings? It's because we can't we
can't see the way you're set up. It's not easy to hear the conversation. It's not easy to see what you're talking about. So you don't have the context for it. There's a lot of So just I'm I'm just so just just keep that keep that in mind uh you know as you're moving forward as your as your committee is moving forward because
there are people that do want to follow along that do want to participate. Yeah. And we are this this process is certainly more comprehensive, but we want to make sure that you know. Yes, I get it. Y and sometimes there's public engagement and you can't hear what the public says and then you respond, but
you don't know the context of your response because you can't hear what the public said. Yeah. From from members from members who were sitting in the in the audience because there's not a there's not a microphone. They don't have a microphone. Right. Right. Yeah. Um, one of the other questions that I had was um, was just about and it's
certainly not my view, but there there are people there are people in town who have, you know, who have inquired, has is the Hawthorne Reuse Committee, have they discussed the sale of the property, the sale? As an as an option? Yeah. This Oh, yes. You mean so Yeah. Well, I can
tell you that the committee has often times taken a few minutes to talk about, you know, I I said we're reviewing plans, but we try to integrate in how would these plans become reality when when you see the plans that have buildings grouped toward the front of
the site and you see as fair a decent park, you know, at the backside, one of the presumptions of our committee, and again, we're not in stone, but you know, where we're leaning, I don't want to get too far in front of the committee, but we're leaning leaning toward if that
were to be the case, it the town would either have a long-ear lease, like a 99-year lease of that of that rectangle of land again along along Huffy Street, or it would literally sell for say $2 million, you know, one-third of the
site, the front third, the rest would be parked. So, those are just I mean, we are not at all pretending that the town is going to build buildings. I mean, the town is not a developer. So, if we if we propose uh 30 or 40,000 square feet of
buildings, you know, maybe maybe some along the street and and a little L or something, you know, that's still very grouped toward the street, but our thinking at this moment, and we we haven't gone too deep because the committee hasn't even said that's what we want. Um but our thinking is yeah it
would it would be realistic to make an RFP at the end of this process ask developers if they would be willing to to build essentially the diagram we give them that we we specify the number of stories one two or three we specify the gross outlines of the buildings not not
the literal dimensions necessarily but pretty close and we specify where where the parking would be because you know they they'd have to accommodate some number of cars and And that would be the way it would get done. Go ahead, Doug.
Yeah. My first question is Marzia, are you attending these meetings? Yes. I have to say that the primary feeling I'm having right now is that I'm not sure that we're giving you the
correct scope, sufficient guidance. Um, it it it feels like you're being put in a place, the committee is being put in a place to make some really significant tradeoffs with maybe
a lot of the information, but maybe not all of the information necessary to make those tradeoffs, right? I mean, just as a simple what if, like, and this is not a position for me, but I know there might be someone sitting here that might have this position. Um,
yeah, maybe it cost $10 million uh to do a park and it's all green space, but there are grants out there and like that's the best route. I think that's one of the reasons why the library thing came along, right? It's like maybe there's a way to actually get the money to do that. You know, is that is the
committee capable of assessing? Is it fair for us to be expecting this committee to be integrating and weighing and basically playing kind of quasi developer and figuring out all the pros and cons of this? This isn't quite how I
envisioned this this unfolding, right? I and this could just be me, but I was envisioning the committee to be tasked with finding options, you know, or suggesting and in drawing out options for potential use of this space and then
almost immediately involving the community to get their feedback. be it, you know, stickers, you know, on on plans or um a survey of here are the, you know, 15 choices and then kind of taking the ball and and going from
there, right? So, I I and I think that's partly our fault for not better defining the scope maybe of of how this committee was to to proceed. Um, but to be making assumptions like, okay, this we we kind of discarded the one that's all green
space because of, you know, whatever the 13 people on this committee felt, that's kind of like actually contrary to what my hope was for the process because I want it to I want the 15,000 people of this town to tell me what they want and I want that to guide how this process
goes, right? Not that I have any less respect for the 13 people on this committee, but the role of those people in my mind, and I could be wrong, was really just to kind of create the ideas to get this thing off the ground and then bring it to the people to find out
what they really felt. Can I know Marcy wants to get into just if I may, just it may be time to have a session, a public session. I think what would be helpful is whether it's 18 or the 12 or the whatever it is
um and you know the pros and cons that you all have assembled so far like let's have a let's have a public checkin I mean I'm not so sure the the dots on the thing really ultimately is right but a public checkin I think what would work make sure you're
getting other input y you know besides the 13 of you now maybe some other people have a different viewpoint on some data that you have about pros pros and cons, but let let's see where we're at. I think what you say, I hear what you're saying and I like that. If if we
could do that, but structure it so it isn't people with yellow dots just going, "Yeah, oh, yeah. No, that that's the nightmare we had last time." What I would be perfectly willing to do, and I think the committee would back it up, we can talk to them. But if if we if our
committee were permitted, if we hang maybe 10 drawings, I don't know, we don't have to hang 18. Some of the some of them are, you know, patently not going to happen. So we could we could get ourselves down to eight or nine or you know um
and if if in that giant public gathering, let's hope 500 people come. If we were permitted if committee the committee was permitted to speak about each plan like what you said about the pros and cons, then we it might take us an hour to go through 10 plans. We'd
have to say you're going to need patience. But then you've given people, you know, people who think they want all buildings or people who think they want all park, you give them some information and what you find is that people say, "Whoa, that's something to think about."
And what it does is it slows people down. And I know that sounds funny. You want everyone's opinion, but you want them to slow down long enough so that there's a little bit of reflection from it. I don't think it sounds funny at all. I think it's totally logical because I will tell you after the
library, we I'll call it a fiasco. I spoke with many public residents and when I engaged with them one-on-one and I explained to them the thought process behind the library, the funding mechanism, the synergy with the hotel, the availability to to run, you know, be
a renaissance for that part of town. People were like, "Yeah, that that's not what was presented, though." Yeah. So yeah, I find like maybe it's not an hourong discussion where you're talking at people, but it's each of your committee members set up against one
option and then they're engaging a little bit and you know letting people understand. That's another way to do it. You could have a walk. I think that's I think that's time for that. It's important and then where we get in the process. You don't want to get too far down the road and then have people be
like, "Well, I don't see anything that I thought I was going to see represented here." Right. That's what happened to us. Yeah. So, learn from the mistakes of us and let's try to improve the process. So, the public is carried along the process. That's the committee's job to carry the public along with them,
educate them, understand all the conversations you have. You're not rehabing them. you're just explaining the information you got out of them and then hopefully have some public input and then come back to the the then the committee will have that input back to them and then they could make informed
decisions about certain things, right? And you might have three options right now on the table that are all mixed use and you don't know the exact ratio of mixed use. You don't have to. You're just saying this is a mixeduse option. We don't know the exact ratio of mixed use yet, but we're thinking, you know,
like park, parking, and building. And that's one example. And that's the pros and cons. You don't have to have all the information, right? Right. For the and I think it's important that we're considering just this site at this point, right? We are not considering Well, our committee the St. John's
parking lot at this point. I mean, that's not is from my understanding, right? I mean, we're not Let's let Brian speak to that. Well, our committee had um our committee is doing two parallel sort of sets of plans. I mean, we we're we're more primarily focused on the
Horththon site, but we also have sketches which show potential development with the church parking lot added. I just don't want to see you waste, to be quite honest, to waste time with putting too much effort into something that might not happen or might
not even be at this point a consideration. Right. So I think that the Hawthorne site is right. I mean it's got to be the driver. Go ahead, David. Well, yeah. I mean, there were, you know, there were certainly there were certainly statements that were made by one of our board members that there was
an agreement uh to purchase uh the uh the St. John's parking lot. And um I certainly want to give Marielleen the opportunity to to speak to that. There was a video that was posted on April 25th that indicated that there was an agreement. Um to my knowledge there is
no agreement. Um I don't believe there's any knowledge of any agreement uh to any other members of this of this board. Um so you know I called it out at the time. I would like to to hear from Mary Ellen
as to why that that statement was made and why um you know why residents of of Swampskit were were misled uh with that with that information. um because I certainly think that's going to help shape the the you know how the how the
Hawthorne reuse committee you know is evaluating these these these potential options and I again to Danielle's point I don't want to have you know Brian you and your committee you know waste waste time well yeah if we knew if we knew we didn't have to look at it of course
right it would not reduce our focus on it for sure yeah no that's what I yeah I agree um uh Katie yes please Katie can I have a moment you Hey, first I can't even address that bogus
statement, Mr. Gisher, to say that there was never an agreement. There was never an agreement. There is a verbal agreement with the church that the church actually was publicly out saying publicly out putting this out in public that they
verbally agreed to the town that they were willing to sell the property and they are willing to sell the property to the town. That is that's out there. That's public. Members of the church have said that we actually had something
in we had an agreement in in writing that expired on 1231 2024 um that we had the exclusive opportunity to buy that. So I I don't know where you have been for you to say that you don't
know anything about this or there was no agreement. I find that to be incredibly disingenuous and not factual. Mary Ellen, Mary Ellen, I don't think you understand how an agreement works. An agreement is where two sides have have have come have come to a have come to a
decision about a price. Mr. Gishman, I have the floor. I have the floor. We have an agree. We have a verbal agreement where we have the opportunity to buy that land if we should choose to do it. If the select board does not want
to take that opportunity, that is in the purview of the select board, we have an opportunity to buy that land and to have access to a parking lot behind there. We have that opportunity and that has not been a secret. You have been privy to
it. It's been out there publicly. So to try to slander me is just unacceptable. an opportunity to purchase and an agreement are two complete separate and distinct things and you're and you're
trying I'm I'm responding now so please please allow me to speak. Thank you. So by you saying there's an agreement that means that there's a financial there's there's this hand and this hand are in agreement as to what the price as to
what the price will be. That is in no way shape or form has ever happened ever. So I have never said you you did you did April 25th April 25th you said there's a you said there's an agreement and you doubled and you doubled down in in writing and then you accused me of
political theater. So again, I'm I'm just trying to get to I'm trying to get to the facts here. I don't want to mislead the public here. I don't want to indicate that there is an agreement when there is not an agreement. There we have an opportunity to purchase the property.
That is that is that is factually accurate. Anything anything beyond that is simply not true. So there was a signed agreement with the church for a period of time to purch to the option to purchase the property. Okay. Now we're sharing executive session information.
Well, it's already been shared. We don't have to double that was that was that's a public document. I don't believe it's a public document. In any case, it's probably good to have this conversation so in in in public and
actually be honest and upfront about the situation we're in. My whole point in this thing was I don't want this committee to waste more time to consider something that is not officially ours and it's not. I I agree with that. I agree with that. And I don't think it's
uh I don't think it's a waste of time because conceptually uh it is true that the church and others have expressed the fact that there's a possibility of purchasing parking lot. Okay. So that is common knowledge for sure. And so it is to me it is
reasonable actually it's even prudent to weigh the benefit pros and cons of incorporating both or not. So, I don't feel that to be a waste, but I just want to make sure I agree with David, the context, the context, we need to be very clear about where we are and where we're not. Right. And I think to task a
committee though with creating schematic design that leads this town to think that it's a real that it's a more of a possibility than it really is. Yeah. Is probably not the best idea. Agreed. And we're I don't think we're anywhere near schematic design. I don't know if you that technically, but I don't know. I I don't know if that's the case because
I've seen designs with incorporating that parking lot. Part of the ask of the committee is to if the space was acquired, what would that look like? How do we put pen to paper? How does that affect what we do with the Hawthorne property?
Because now you have a bigger footprint. So now are you saying it could have more open space on Hawthorne because you have parking on St. or something like so I do think it is important as Doug was saying that we think about it holistically and that that drives the decision on
whether or not the town would like to see the town community would like to see the town procure that piece of land actually enter into an agreement but from a but from a communications perspective I think it's incredibly important that we share the facts and
not and and and not and and that there is At this point there is no agreement, right? There is an opportunity to purchase and we can and we can potentially evaluate that. Um but again I don't want to get into executive session. You know what's fairly workable? Um we we've already developed
some pretty decent ideas if the second lot was built. We could kind of do the both and it's and it's and and we could make it clear that I mean our focus certainly has been on the Horththon right the Horththon site. we could keep our main focus there, but but because we've actually drawn some plans and
thought a bit about if we if we get this lot, what would be the implication in some sense? Maybe that actually as you as you're saying, maybe that would help the town decide whether do we want to pursue that lot or do we not? If if we bought it, what could be as long as
we're clear with people with what the situation is. Yes. I mean again we were criticized in the original Hawthorne process for not having a plan before we 100% bought it. Yeah. So here we're trying to rectify that, right? These are your options have at least options and
plans to say this is what it could look like what it might how it might synergize. Yeah. Right. This is exactly why I say I think I think a public meeting in two weeks or three weeks is a great idea, but if we're permitted to speak, you know, speak first about the
plans, we will make clear, you know, right now we're sort of assuming it's called by the sea site, but we have drawn plans, you know, to see what would be possible if the town, you know, we're not assuming it. We're not banking on it. It's it's a matter of telling people
clearly what what's going on, managing. And I think we can do that. And and I think it's it will be important. You know, it sounds funny, but it will be important at the at this big gathering. Hope there's 500 people. I think we need to say right up front that, you know, this committee is going to talk for 45
minutes first or something, 30 minutes, you know, because you need people to be prepared that unlike the last process, we'll get up there and give out some information. You know, we're not going to say pick this plan or pick that plan. We will not do that. But we'll say, as Doug said, here are the pluses and
minuses of this concept. Here are the pluses and minuses of this concept. And and we'll do that with every plan we have, including the double plan. And I mean, as long as I think as long as the town gets a chance to get some information, then then you know, then they then then let it be a sort of free
after that let it be free flowing like get have the citizens be free to make comments. give us their reaction to the various concepts and and at that point we'll shut up and it'll be an hour and a half of the just the town reacting to things. It's all in how it's conducted.
I think clear clear accurate information, right? Because that's where we get into trouble is when there are halftruths out there or there are different versions of certain things like these the 15,000 people in this town deserve all of the information as we know it and and they need that
upfront. Right. Well, I I do think our committee the you know, as I said, we we have a tough time in agreement on things, but I do think all 13 people would agree that you know that full sort of public exposure in a big gathering uh as long as every plan is fairly
advocated for in the sense of pros and cons. I don't think anybody on the committee would have a problem with that. It's got, you know, it's got to be done fairly, objectively, and so forth. No, no plan gets a free pass. you know, every every plan is is is rigorously
assessed. Okay. And I think I think we're all on the same page. And I guess just so we could be clear about our expectations then going forward, it would be a presentation to the public of the plans, whatever number of plans the committee wanted to bring forward as options and that there would be some
pros and cons discussed of each of the plans and there would be public engagement and then that would allow the committee to have good direction going forward about sort of where to spend its time in the going forward. And it'll be great, you know, if the last two hours are just public comment, we'll take notes. And it'll be great if we say to
the public, don't tell us yes you like it or no you don't. Please tell us what about the plan you like and you don't because that forces people to sort of why do I like this plan? And the other thing is that allows us sometimes to mix and match the features of plans. We've
already found that as a committee. Yep. That we find out that wow everyone likes this but it's on the wrong plan. So yeah. Yeah. Very good. Yeah. Yeah. So it so I think it I think it can can work. Okay. And and and let's talk the timeline. I mean, should we maybe do it
in three weeks or I mean, I guess it's up to the committee on how fast they could get the pros and cons for each together and the design. I mean, why don't you if it's if I'll talk to the committee, but if it's three or four weeks, something like that, then Marzy can circle back with us about a timeline. Well, the next meeting is scheduled for June 24th. And, you know,
we're meeting next week. So, we will bring this to the committee and and you know and talk to the the whole committee will participate and we'll we'll see what the committee thinks. How long will it take us to get the pros and cons together? Yeah. It's probably realistically at least four weeks because we we actually haven't finished
reviewing all the plans. So, Okay. Yeah. So, maybe a month from now. Excellent. All right. And the other Oh, one other thing. I'm sorry. One more important thing is the space you I'm sorry. The space that you conduct a meeting in is very important. So what'll be important
is like we had our committee had a meeting in the gymnasium, the gymnasium wall. We taped all the drawings up in a line. It allowed all the drawings to sort of exist. It was like 25 ft long and people were able to just cruise along and look. So I think it won't
work. You know, everyone says do it in the school cafeteria. That in that space that won't work because it's all chopped up. The walls are all chopped up. There's no wall to show, you know, the wind, there's one long window wall. The opposite wall is doors and openings to quarters and then the little end wall
where they have held this. Oh, you're talking about the new elementary school. Yeah. Talking about at the new elementary school. Oh, the high school cafeteria. Oh, I'm sorry. Well, we we'll need this will be important. We need to have a big room. You tell us what works for you. We'll just need a big room. I just put that up so people can move
around, you know. Absolutely. Yeah. And Katie, I had just Brian, one of the thing that I think have been missing. Well, first I want to thank you for your hard work and this is absolutely one of the hardest tasks for anybody to do is
to you know this is a very emotional um project. It's everybody has an opinion on it. Everybody's passionate. So, I really uh appreciate all your hard work and watching you keep the patience patients and being open to how to
improve and how to reel things in. So, thank you so much. Um now, my minor criticism, it's not really a criticism, but we have a report that was given to supposedly given to everybody on the committee, but it really needs to be
addressed. And that's the Baker Tilly Baker Tilly report that um Doug Thompson really charged away with that. And I think it's important that you spend time going over there going over that report because it identifies the economic
development for that area. Yes. And in my opinion, one thing that is critical to keep in mind is the hotel and how that space integrates with the hotel and how it enhances the hotel.
So those are those are my comments. Yes. Well, we we we'll we handed that report out the very first meeting, but I think people have, you know, maybe put it away. So Marz and I Marzy and I'll get a copy to everybody fresh. I I think you
have to have a discussion about it, too. you have to suck or whatever because I've asked a couple people, you know, what their opinion was on the Baker Tilly and if they felt that it was pretty accurate and out of the four people I asked, nobody knew what that report was. Yeah. Well, you're right. I
I think there was no discussion of it. So, we'll we'll we'll we'll make a portion of uh a meeting be a discussion of that so that people are kind of forced to look at it and think about it. Thank you, Ryan. Okay. Thank you. Okay.
Okay. Moving on. Appreciate it. Um to the discussion and possible vote on 12 to 14 Pine Street schematics. I think Holly and Yara are on. We saw them come and go and here they are. Thank you for
staying on all night with us. Thanks for having us. Absolutely. Um Marcy, do you just want to start with maybe an update on the community meeting? Yes, absolutely. On um June 12th, um Venet Brit and um Gino and I or
the town um held a neighborhood meeting for the residents um uh abudding the property. So basically um all of the surrounding streets and obviously the meeting was advertised um via the no more channels in regards to the the notification on the town's website etc.
uh we had about um I want to say close to uh 15 residents who attended the meeting. Um it was fairly positive. Uh the concerns or the discussion really focused on um a lot of it was about parking uh parking during construction
and then traffic flow. There was a request in regards to having speed bumps on Pine Street as well as a stop sign on Buon Street and Superior Street. I think that's something that was in front of you a while back when officer Re was discussing about um the traffic flow on
the site. Um so um that really focused on on on the parking. The other issues that were brought up was um trash and that trash is not picked up prior to 8 a.m. And that's something that we convey to the residents that that will be part
of the comprehensive permit when and if the developer submits the proposal. I think that's something that we should request that would be written as part of the decision um to talk about you know the site condition and also any kind of um traffic flow or uh pickup and the
deliveries or or just um address the the u services that will be sort of impacting the the residents on the area. Um another question or concern that came up was about u the trees in the area and trying to keep as many of the mature trees as possible. Um and that was
something again that I think the the developer and the town was again willing to to consider and and really work within the perimeters of the site. Um and lastly the final concern about just uh communication and to make sure that
um there is a designated person or um the contractor that will be able to hold weekly site meetings or uh the residents and town will have their contact. So, we'll be able to uh reach out to them and be able to address any construction issue. Oh, I'm sorry. And and under
parking also mobilization and um contract the parking that that should that should be addressed. Um so, I think that that those were the major points. I'm not sure yara or Holly if there's anything that I missed that maybe uh you
recall from the meeting. Uh I have similar so thank you. Okay. And then just just one thing, I did hear from the from the planning board um and they would like to have an opportunity to be able to share with you their comments, but they will not have them
until July 3rd. Okay. Um sorry, when what's the schedule for getting comments back? So um we don't we're we're not due or the select board
is um should submit their comments to beneath by June uh July 14th. July 14th. Okay. But then if they have to come back with changes based on those commentaries that's why we were trying to sort of have the conversation faster so that they would have that feedback if they
needed it. We would have time for feedback. Doug, when you said did you say 15 or 50 people? Uh about 15. I want to say 15 people. 15 residents. And did you say uh were the residents of that area all specifically notified or?
Yes, they each each um we did send out flyers to all of the residents of New Ocean Street, Pine Street, Eerie Street, um sections of the beginning of Boon and um Curry Circle. Curry Circle. Yes. Thank you. And were people around Reach
arts specifically given notices too since this kind of like a this project is kind of so effective. We did not notifi outside of the of the notice that was posted on the town's website. We did not target them specifically with a um
leaflet or notification of the of the project of the meeting. And what about the veterans? Yes, the vet veterans were notified. Um I did hear back from Dave Emerton. uh he was sorry that he could not attend the meeting. He had uh prior engagement. Um and I did not hear from
Nelson Leon Marzy. I have a question. Um the planning board is going to come back with comments, but does the planning board also what is the what does the planning board what's the planning board's role? Um, further on, I'm just
wondering if the planning board doesn't come back with comments right now, do they have another um another role later on? Because for some reason, I thought that they were involved. Are they involved in site planning or anything like that? Well, as as part of the comprehensive permit,
they'll have an opportunity to be able to submit their comments as will any other residents. Um so similar to um to this process to date when a comprehensive permit is submitted to the zoning board of appeals they will send notices to all of the abutters within a
a 300 ft radius. Um meetings will be posted online and they will be able to take uh comments from residents or um any interested party or stakeholder that would like to attend the meeting and make their comments. Yeah, I think we're gonna have
Sorry. Go ahead, Mariel. Uh, as far as the timeline, are we if we're having to if we're have to wait for the planning board, does that is that put this at any disadvantage? And I'm just wondering Well, we're going to have a we're going to have a timing issue with the planning board because if
they don't if they don't get us comments till the 8th, we we No, they said the third. I'm sorry. Oh, the third. Okay. So, we we do have a meeting scheduled for Tuesday the 8th. um still be within the time frame for Margie to get comments back by the 14th, but not
feedback, but not feedback um or changes from the developer, which is what we were hoping. Well, I think that maybe um I would defer to to Holly and Yara, but I think that the goal for the comments from the uh the select board is to be
able to proceed with the sort of further development of the plans in order to file the comprehensive permit. Okay. Um, so I just uh and and again please Yar and Holly chime in in regards to um if what I'm saying is if you agree with that because I feel that although you
know there's no additional um comments that would be required by the select of the town prior to the submission of the comprehensive permit. So I think that as per the EL um land disposition agreement, the sele has until July 14 to
make any comments on the the rendering. And from that point on, once the the the developer received those comments, I would imagine that they will be using them in order to advance their plans to prepare them for the comprehensive permits uh submission.
Okay. And may may I please build on that? So um yes, what Marzy said is um I guess desirable or the p the path that we have um and I think our if it works
for the board. We view these comments from the neighbors although very important as relatively minor. Our most desired path with these comments would be um before the deadline that's in the
land agreement a letter I guess approving the set potentially with conditions what seem to be important to the neighbors and we um could could add within our comprehensive permit plans address the comments or conditions that
are in the letter if that makes sense. And we are I guess um taking comfort in the fact that comments right now, we're viewing them important, you know, regarding the issues that Marzy
mentioned, but they are not things like, you know, we've messed up the number of units or the building needs to be totally redesigned or um things that are uh major comments. Well, I I might have
one of those. But um um so uh are we done with that process about the planning board timing thing for now or? Yeah, I'm still not 100% sure where where we land on that. So
then we we wait, the planning board gives their feedback, and then we give feedback on the ETH, and then they're hoping then to integrate both those feedbacks into whatever they submit after the 14th. Is that right, Holly?
Or well, although I I know at the Michelle [Music] don't believe we had planning board feedback at this point in the process. We had it later on during the comprehensive permit process. I mean, right. So, what is Do we need to have
planning input? I guess we we I don't want to shoot us in the foot, right, for the fact that we reached out to the planning board. We provided it for them. We asked them for feedback, but now the timing of it might not work. Why does it not work? I mean, it's the third. They give us the feedback from that meeting.
We have a meeting on the 8th. We incorporate that and we're still got another week to the 14th. Is that enough time? Basically, I think Okay. I I'm sorry. Then I misunderstood what Holly was saying. I I thought that perhaps they wanted feedback as of today so that
they could work to modify what Oh, um yeah, I I think your board quite honestly, I don't know what the planning board feedback will be, but if it's dramatic like totally redesign the project in a different way, then that puts us in a different scenario, right? If it's please use these tree species.
Yeah. Okay. I mean, I guess that's the issue, right? If the planning board comes back and we're having a full-blown conversation on the ETH about redesigning the entire but I think it would be useful to I mean to know right I doubt that's going to be the case. Me
too. I don't have a sense I have not had an opportunity to to talk to them. Okay. Did you say they're not until July 3rd? That's what Marzy said. Yes. Yes. That's what Ted told me that their comments will be in by the by the third. Their
comments will be in by the third. So they're going to be meeting earlier than that. Okay. No idea. Doug, go ahead with your um soal comments. Yeah. Um Holly, I want to go back to a question I asked and Yara
last time. The culvert. Um, can you refresh at least my memory on I the covert that transexs the the parking lot? The lot. Thank you. That's the word. Simple word I'm looking for.
Is that I think it says that that's going to be removed. Moved. Moved. It's It's being slightly relocated. Relocated. Relocated. Yeah.
And and why is that? And where is it being re I couldn't track that? Yara, would you be able to? Yes. Um, it's being reloc and Marzy might be able to help with the
answer here going I'm trying to pull up the p the plan. See if I was say if there's a plan reference um sheet number. Yeah, it's on C. Hold on. Uh if you look at plan C002,
[Music] um there is a note that in that there's a note sort of in the middle of the plan that says remove uh hold on. Yeah, like 87 linear feet of something of the culvert within the pro
within the proposed building footprint. And then to the left of that there is a a note that says install 125 linear feet of a box culvert prior to the removal of the existing. So though that dash line that those arrows are pointing to is the
location of the new culvert of the the that we're moving the culvert so it is no longer underneath the building the proposed building footprint. Got it. Okay. Okay.
Um, so, um, I still feel as though we've made a compromise here, uh, that is too severe
compared to the promises that we made to each other, excepting Danielle because she wasn't there in the beginning of this process. Um, uh, about how we were going to move this process forward, uh, uh, in a unanimous fashion. Um, you
know, uh, those conversations were had in executive session. uh we spent a lot of time uh accommodating each other's viewpoints uh to move forward in that fashion in
the beginning and um we lost that thread last year and uh we didn't just lose it amongst us uh select board members u but I think that fed into uh you know breeding uh
discontent and division in the community about this and uh leading us all into a path where we were choosing sides and we felt like there was nothing we could do except either choose the neighbors or choose the veterans.
Um and I I think that's I think that's a failure of leadership on our part. Um, and I am uh I think people most most people know me I'm not one to kind of proceverate on these things or get terribly dramatic
about them, but I I'm just I'm have I'm having finding it impossible to let go of this. Um because I do feel like we've uh we've not exercised full imagination to
figure this out in a better way. We were, you know, understandably rushing towards a deadline at the end of last year. Um, and, uh, you know, went down a kind of a polarizing path through the
special town meeting and, um, and and frankly had a kind of a very divided vote there. Uh, even on the two votes we had, uh, kind of went both ways. Um, and even there, even in that
context, you know, people still kind of wanted to have everything on one site, but didn't feel technically that that could happen at that moment or um or the legalities or, you know, it was confusing. Um, so
I realize, you know, this is at least, you know, the clocks at least at midnight, if not after midnight, but it occurs to me that, um, one of the big issues was four stories versus three stories.
Now, we have a beautiful picture of a three-story building. Um, which I'm sure still feels like monstrous uh to the the neighbors. Um, but you know, that was the kind of compromise.
Um, but what what's occurred to me over the last couple weeks is that it's actually possible to accommodate a post in that building and keep it three stories.
If if you take if you're looking for 2,000 square feet and you have three stories, you're looking for 700 square feet. The building is 70 feet wide.
If you add 10 feet to the end of this building and three stories, you've created 2100 square feet. 10 feet. You probably lose a couple parking
spots. So, I'm not the architect. Maybe there's something wrong with that analysis. Maybe it's, you know, still too complicated. I don't know. But it just it just seems to me that
we we truncated a process and didn't focus on working to a mutual conclusion. And I'm I'm really afraid of like what what
this will what residue this will leave forever with this project. And and we don't have, you know, we're charging forward on this piece of the project. But if we're being true to
what we say is going to happen over at Reach Arts, yes, sure, we have money in the the capital budget, but I think we need to either be really operating both of these pieces simultaneously to ensure that we truly have a veterans crossing, which I think
it's a misnomer to call this the veterans crossing now when we have two different pieces if that's what we're doing. Um, of course I I I would I would vote in a nancond to add 10 feet to that building. We're still keeping it three stories.
That was the big thing. Um, yeah, you're going to have parking issues because now you'd have the post there. Uh, but you're going to have parking issues either place. You're going to have money to build out Reach Arts. You're going to have money to build out the post at Pine Street.
Um the virtue obviously is that this is keeping a little bit more in faith with what the original concept was and what the the agreement was that we had with the veterans. So um
those are the thoughts I offer. Marzy, sorry Doug, one thing that I just wanted to point out. Um, if your request is is for the 2,000 square feet additional space for the for the VFW, that's something as I'm not sure if recall from the discussions that we had had with the
leadership of the veterans. Y was that that was not not sufficient for them. That that was the issue with with the with the previous plan that that's that space is too small. The 1500 was too far too small. Well, it's 1500 plus two 300
square foot spaces outside of that 1500 for them to utilize. That was ultimately fine with them if I recall correctly. So maybe obviously that could be verified but yeah that that was just my
takeaway. So I just wanted to kind of point it out because I I remember when we had the discussion initially at the um at um the senior center when the project was shared and that at that point the leadership that was in
attendance at that meeting stated that that space is insufficient that at this point they have a lot more space and they really um that that this is not a viable option for them. that obviously we have to ask them but well that I mean that was one discussion
but as the process evolved their thinking about that did evolve uh as well so yes that is it's accurate that they're that that the space that was offered initially was met
as as you described however as they went down the road they said all right we could we can do with this space with with uh you know with with something that that's a little smaller but ADA accessible and within the and within the housing. So so I'm sorry that was never
conveyed to me. I I never had that discussion. I I did not hear from the from the veterans about that. Was there part of this that was there something to the funding piece that wouldn't necessitate a post in the
actual housing units? Wasn't there some piece to that? So, was there a reason or is that not accurate? I don't even sure what we can openly discuss because these are all executive session conversations and we just got called out
five an hour ago for talking about something else from executive session and this is just diving in deep with you Doug. is part of the problem is that when the conversation started, it became a lot
about taking sides and using things against each other and mistrust even in our five plus or minus, right, as members came and left. And so it became like everything can and will be used against you. And so then the collaborative
spirit of any conversations, they fizzled because that wasn't a safe space to have any of those conversations. So that's again that's a representation of us also and that's a shame that it happened that way but I mean the reality
is we signed an LDA so that we could utilize ARPA funds so that we can go forward with this project. Now that doesn't mean we can't amend the the LDA. I'm not just squashing to say we can't, but in order to
the developer agreed to build a building without a post and they're under no obligation to put a post in uh based on the document they signed. Um and as a matter of fact, to speak on what you're talking about, when we originally were talking about the option of having a
post, we had to buy the square footage back from the developer and then put money in to develop the space. So, they would have a loss on the two spaces that they would have had had they um had they become units. Anybody correct me if I'm
wrong. Right. But I thought Kim had mentioned something. Kim Martin Epstein had mentioned something at the special town meeting that said um there couldn't be a post or a oh that it may jeopardize their funding. That's that's what I'm speaking about. That's what I'm referencing. I don't know if anybody
else remembers that or what or if that's even accurate. I don't know. I remember hearing something about that. I don't know if that's I I think there I think there have been concerns about that. I mean we clearly we clearly you know bid it out that way. Right. Right. Um even required it at that point. Right. Um I
think there were concerns about that. There concerns you know the operational issues of doing it that way. You know people don't like the feeling of it that way. I I'm not I I literally don't know like if it's literally legally impossible, right? you certainly want to
have separate entrances and you know so but and the use was another issue right is that a comparable use to have within a housing project that was something else that was that was brought up more from like an ethical consideration right
be you know having alcohol with you know a veteran population yeah I remember that piece but I I don't know I I don't know the answer to that but but I appreciate the spirit of what you're attempting to in your honesty about like your feeling and just, you
know, seeing if there's like some way to have a path forward. I I appreciate that. I don't uh, you know, disagree necessarily, but I also don't want to see this prop this project jeopardized, right? I don't want to see it um and I don't want to put the
developer in an awkward spot. Certainly, and we, you know, have no intention on not going forward, but I can appreciate your thoughts. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I don't think there's ever been a moment when everybody basically wants the housing to happen. That's never been a question, right? So, no. Um, just if I
could just point out two small um um sort of items or or um features that were not highlight highlighted at the last meeting. Um and then it was that there's going to be a flag pole on site and then the railings are a little bit different. Um Holly and Yara, is there
anything else that you'd want to highlight in terms of the new plans? That was a hard segue, Mary. I'm sorry. Let me distract. Look, let me wave the flag. No, but I wanted to make sure that you're aware of it because I don't think that we talked about at the last
meeting. I I think that sums it up, Marcy, because we we revealed the other, you know, dumpster locations, smoking shed, which we wanted to make sure we called because we know they're areas of concern. Um Mars, you and I had had a
conversation about a deck and I could not figure out where I came up with that topic. It is on this A001 schematic that there would be a deck off the backside facing. I that is still a concern for me just for neighborhood um
like visibility. And I think I think I may have heard that one of the concerns of the planning board is like the like the the feeling of it approaching what is this um Eerie and Pine Street and having the building so close to the edge and
having it be so like a solid building on that edge. So, I wondered if one of the considerations may be to take the the porch that's on the I think it's a porch on the second floor and move it to the
Pine Street Eerie side um where there is more space between um that and the neighbors. So, it feels less like you're overlooking the neighbors property. And then also making it feel less like so up against the
street there and a solid massive building and a little bit more open. And then making that sort of parking lot face side more solid if that makes sense. Sorry if I'm not describing that well. I don't know if any of the neighbors brought up that concern or even saw
that. Um, but I would think that if we're going to have a roof deck, maybe having it But isn't isn't the roof deck on the It's overlooking the parking lot right there. Yeah. But I mean, it's also like looking in the backyard of one of this these neighbors, right? This is their
backyard. Mhm. Here. Yeah. And I mean, if their backyard is like my backyard, it's probably, you know, very small. And so it is likely that I don't know how mature these trees are, if we're going to keep all these trees, but there might be a a line of sight there. If we just
moved it to the top corner of Erie, even either facing the corner of Erie and um Pine Street that overlooks the street and not somebody's backyard or on the corner of uh or on Erie, not on the corner of Pine
Street. At least there's a it looks like there's a driveway here. Um, what what about from a design perspective to just provide that screening on the Curry Circle side here? So that way you you wouldn't have that
you wouldn't you wouldn't necessarily have that visibility into the backyard. I Yeah, I mean that's that's totally an option and I'm not stuck on moving the the porch, but I think part from what I had heard maybe part of the planning board's um initial thoughts on it was
its approach coming down Pine and like the solidness of the building coming from Pine and having it maybe have sort of a broken up on one side with a porch so that that second level was open might make it feel a little less intrusive.
Yeah. or or uh disparaging against the heights of the neighbors. Um so if it sort of like went from three stories to two stories to a one-story house, that might be a nice approach rather than threetory, threetory, one-story house. I don't know. It was just a thought. I
don't know. Is that a possibility? Do you think? I'm asking Benet. Yara, you're more of an architect than me. Um we can definitely look into it. Um I know that the um you know there's sort
of the the we can definitely ask our arctics to to look into to that and the layout of you know the units you know the stacking of the units and and I know that the the the size of that proposed roof deck is not necessarily a full unit
size. So we would sort of have to see how that would stack. But we could also definitely try to see if there's some way to alleviate sort of that sort of solid three threetory um wall on Eerie Street and and we could see if that if
there is anything that's viable. Again, I guess my request is that if this is one of the comments and direction that we need to take and potentially in the planning board memo, I I think we just need clear direction.
I I really don't want to exercise our architects to do something in between now and and July 3rd that maybe will get overruled. Absolutely. Definitely not asking you to come up with a new schematic design right now for sure. Just an idea. I am I don't
and we'll present that to the planning board. Maybe that's not we don't even have the feedback from the planning board. So again, we're also fostering under the same same, you know, like I'm making some assumptions here of things that I heard, but I don't know them to be 100% accurate. So we're going to have to wait until the planning board comes
back with feedback because we open the door. So we've got to let them in to be able to have the time to do that. And if I can raise it, Marzy, I don't know if um changing the location of that roof deck. Um
if if the name I'm not 100% sure where the different neighbors were who attended the meeting and were very involved and very detailed in their comments. If they're um would be a folks that directly across Eerie Street that might
not like this change. Okay, fair. I just want to be aware. I just want to be aware of the sensitivities that could could be raised in that direction. Absolutely. Also, to David's point, I think that we should really look at the landscaping plan. I'm trying to look at it quickly to see what you know like if there's any mature trees that are
staying or there's, you know, like other landscaping that would uh sort of provide additional screening from that site. I I think right at that at that area, I thought I had noticed on one of the plans that there was actually removal of trees. Yes, there are. But
then there's a replacement. Yeah, I mean I understand why but that's something else that we can take a look at because I think that maybe there's sufficient screening either through fencing or the on the trees or maybe you know some okay is now exiting. Hi Mary.
Good to know. Maryell, I have some other comments. Is please now's the time. Thank you. Um so did you all uh talk any more look into any more uh the
questions I had last time on uh energy efficiency lowcarbon building uh design standards approach you would use Uh we don't have any more information regarding that but we would with the
comprehensive permit submission. Okay. Pretty. And the key reason is because we're not we haven't been engaging the architects on these until we know what we need to edit. Honestly, well, it's a little bit of a chicken and
egg, isn't it? Um, you know, my my understanding is at this phase, uh, it's very common to understand like whether or not you're going to be I mean, you have to do to specialize code because we've adopted that here. So, that's that's not really a question. Yeah, we
must meet energy code and building code, right? Uh, you mentioned last time, well, you've done things as passive house in the past. Well, if you're going to do passive house, my understanding is that you would know that. Now, um it's not necessarily I'm not asking you to
like tell me what the uh building envelope uh is going to be rated at per se specifically, but concept not necessarily. Yara knows more about this um because of her recent experience, but it's my understanding there's a few pathways to meet energy code and passive
house is one of them. Yara, is that correct? That's right. I Yeah, I don't I I don't know that. No. Um, but you know, we our goal is to have all our, you know, have been, you know, our our most recent
developments and the other developments in in is to, you know, our goal is to have passive house on our projects. Yes. So, we haven't engaged our sustainability consultants yet, but you know, the goals of our developments and recent developments have been to make
them as most energy efficient as possible. Okay. But you're you're you're asking us to approve this schematic design that has all sorts of mechanical equipment nicely hidden on the roof,
but that's going to preclude you having this be solar optimized the way you've drawn it and what we're approving. So, are you are you suggesting we should say we're approving this but uh not with that mechanical
equipment there because you can't do solar and you what you were saying earlier Holly in terms of the list of conditions. Um, I would like collectively all of us to consider the potential that we could add solar on the
slope sloped roof as single family homeowners do. So, you want us to approve it with the possibility that you might add solar on the sloped roof? That sounds great. Yeah, I bet it does.
So, the state also requires us to be very green for their funding sources to create this affordable housing. Okay. Well, so it'll meet a high standard. Okay. Well, what can you can you share what that is with us then so we're not
guessing if you're already So what I guess what's the concern honestly like what do you want to mandate that we're passive house certified or I mean that we'll meet your local building codes you want us to exceed local building codes I'd say sure give us a condition and
we'll as long as it's reasonable and meeting building code we'll meet it if if you okay if you want to go that way, that's fine. I mean, it would be better. I'm not trying to play a guessing game. I mean, if if you have that's news to me what you just said
that you have certain things that are required of you for your funding. Why don't we start with that to understand what's required? Uh maybe that's terrific. So, do you want additional information? I get and then this part of this is
we've we've submitted this set. Is it as an applicant? Is it approved or not approved? Do you need edits? Do you need what do you like? We need a like clear direction almost a written response of of what it what it is. I we're we're
this was a milestone set for us this schematic design set and our intention was to take feedback comments or conditions back to our architects to refine our set
to be the comprehensive permit package which then gets I mean in the typical course of events goes to the zoning board and gets discussed and
edited and conditioned in a greater level of detail. Fully appreciate that, but this is our last chance to say anything about it. Um, and yes, so I'll be direct. Since you've said that you have certain
requirements that uh you're obligated to meet in this in this regard, it would be wonderful for you to share what those are so that we know what's already required and uh maybe that'll be at least sufficient for me or maybe we'll
I'll suggest we add something more. Um so we'll certainly meet your local building code and your stretch code. We would like to be solar ready. Ideally, it won't be required that we add solar because sometimes we struggle
to find the sources to do that and add it after the building is already occupied. We will have water sense lowflow plumbing fixtures. We will use wherever available Energy Star energy efficient appliances
as we do in all of our other developments. Y is there anything else we can add that we've done most recently? Um um it's it's such a high you know the most recently we've done passive house where
the the level of of um um you know the level of efficiency in the building is is is extreme is is extremely high and and and um you know we're not sort of guaranteed we're going to do passive But we we I
think we need to um I think we can actually say lead gold certifiable because that's what we have in our most recent development right we don't typically go through the process
of certifying for lead because it is very costly but we provide many of the features including and needed for the lead certification so we can submit the checklist to you. Yeah, I wasn't suggesting lead. Uh, and
I think you know if if you're doing uh specialized code which we've adopted here, it it may depending on how you're designing may be very close to being passive house in order to get to specialized. Um, but there are other, you know, aspects to all of this, some
of which you're starting to touch on. But, you know, I'm not looking here to go through like every little piece uh collectively. Uh it' be nice to understand what you know, what you've specked out, what you haven't um to start with. But, you know, there are
things about permeable surfaces and what you're doing with storm water and the fact that this is a flood plane. And, you know, there's other aspects to all of this too that are, especially at this site, highly relevant given it's in a flood plane.
Correct. And and the building is going to be elevated and will be, you know, has been designed to be able to address all the flood plane concerns and, you know, there there the storm water management system. I know that there's, you know, sort of um there's reports
that need to be that will be compiled and during the for the 4B comprehensive permit application. thoughts maybe. I mean, Doug, to your point, we could just require
them to a standard and they would have to show it's not financially reasonable in order to not meet the standard. that's the direction you're suggesting or would like to go in. I mean, I'm just, you know, this isn't just Doug, right? I mean, this is our
climate action plan. This is exactly what we're expecting from all these things, right? So, um, just kind of carrying that torch here a little bit, right? And, uh, you know, I'm clearly frustrated. I feel like, yeah, I I shouldn't have to be, you
know, you know, pulling this information out. Um, and this has been a frustration throughout this process, I have to say. Um, but uh, you know, so I' I'd love it if you know, as I've asked twice, if we could get a list of what will be
included, you know, through this conversation, you know, little bits of information are kind of dripping out. Um, and it'd be nice to have the the holistic understanding of what they've thought about. You know, maybe all these things are covered. That would be great.
Um, but right now, unless I've missed something somewhere, it I didn't know a lot of what I just learned in the last 10 minutes. And so, I don't know if I know everything yet, and it's kind of hard to follow. Okay.
So, I'm happy to work with um to provide information or maybe Yara and Holly that we can work together and you can forward the information through me to the select board. That sounds great. Sure. Thank you.
And then from that, Holly, we will be able to at the with the comments from the planning board looking more holistically at the schematic design with that information and their comments, we will be discussing on the
ETH and then we will be able to get comments back to you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you both for being up at such late hour. We appreciate it. Um that's the last item on old and new
business. Mary Ellen, did you drop off or are you still here? I'm here. Okay. Did you have anything? Sorry. Before I go because apologies, you're not in the room. Correct. Okay. Thank you. All right. The last
we've already done the consent agenda. So, the last item is um select board time. I know it's late, but um does anybody Thank you. Thank you. We are um Does anybody have anything for select board time? I just have one thing. Okay.
Um I'm going to hold up this little card. This is an open studio that is being done by one of our local artists, Nate Fontes Freed. those of you that do not know him. Um he is doing an open studio June 28th at his residence 48 or
Orchard Road if anyone can see that. Um he's quite talented. He's done a lot for a lot of people in this town, including the new elementary school. He's designing a piece for the lobby, but he's having an open studio and I'd highly recommend everyone give him a visit. Again, there you go. That's all
I've got. Thank you. So, I'm just I'm just excited about the uh the movie nights uh that are starting. Um so, you know, I'm looking forward to uh to that. I'm looking forward to um fireworks festival on July 3rd and then the uh the
litany of concerts that are coming um on Wednesday nights. Thank you, David. Doug, I'm all set. Okay, Mary Allen. Uh yeah. So I just wanted to um really reiterate what we heard during that DEI
presentation that we have an issue with communication. And I know that when I was started campaigning in 2022, that was constantly a topic that people brought up, communication, communication, and that we need help
with how to communicate better. So I I was happy to hear that from everybody um that comment that on the board and from the consultants. So that's one comment. My next comment is we have our annual rabies clinic next Wednesday from 6:00
to 7. It's on the website. It's on account Facebook. Um we'll probably ask people to put it on other Facebook pages. And if you just pass it around, it's just our one our anniversary date in June. If you just bring in your
certificates, we can get you a three-year. If you don't have a certificate, get you a one year. And it's for dogs and cats only. So, if anybody has any questions, they could just give me a call or call Diane. Um, just send an email to anybody. We can get people helped. And it's for it's
open to the public. It's open to not just Swam, but any resident. And that's it. And I don't know who's manning the video, but tell them thank you. They heard you. Um, okay. I just want to I was asked by the board of health to um
convey two things. One, their dismay and disappointment about the potential loss of the public health nurse. Um, they have obviously had a call to back call to action, which is why we heard all those folks in public comment. Um I went
to the public health I'm sorry the board of health meeting this evening before this meeting and um they are really looking for um Gino and the board to reconsider the decision of losing the public health nurse. Um, so,
uh, also they would like everybody to know that the pro the recck department programming was voted back in February to be moved to Eisman's Beach because they did not have the data to um, say
for certain that fisherman's would be safe. So, they voted back in February to move the programming. Um, so that's set in stone. um the rec director should be aware of that and there will be no programming at fisherman's except there
were the well the sale program will be at fisherman's obviously um also I wanted to highlight that we are having I believe it's the 28th of June that there there'll be a dedic um a ribbon cutting
I guess for lack of a better term of the two um accessible wheelchairs that'll be available at Fisherman's Beach 30th the 30th I'm Sorry. Thank you, Diane. Monday the 30th at 11:00 a.m. Um, and it is um through a generous donation by Deb
Newman and her family that we will have a an adult beach accessible um wheelchair and through a um a donation through a nonprofit that we will have a child's uh accessible wheelchair. Um it
was brought up in the board of health meeting this afternoon about why it was at fisherman's beach since fisherman's is not always open for swimming. Um I don't know the correct answer. I I would guess it is because they need to be stored and they will be locked in a locker. So they will be available upon
request and reservation and they won't just be available um you know like for your kids to play on or for some like you know they're going to be utilized. Um, so they had suggested looking into whether they could be moved to other beaches and if there was storage available at any other beach to keep
them. Um, I suggested that maybe we not limit ourselves and instead we look for more avenues to get more accessibility at more beaches and not move the accessibility from fisherman. So let's see if we can accomplish something there.
All right, that's all I have. Motion to adjurnn. Oh, and happy birthday, Doug. Happy birthday, Katie. Happy birthday. Tomorrow is Doug's birthday. Tomorrow is Katie's birthday. I won't forget it. Happy Happy Junth, everybody. Happy Junth. More importantly, that's right.
Yeah. Um I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. So move. Second. Thank you. Um all those in favor. I All right. Thanks everyone. Night.