The daisies you want to enjoy >> are going to do the pledge. >> Okay. Good evening and welcome >> to the Wednesday, April 8th select board meeting. Uh we are being recorded and we would like to welcome
um some folks up who are going to help us in the pledge. >> Okay, just one for now. >> Just you, kiddo. >> All right, here we go. >> Whoa. >> Oh, you can use that microphone right there. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Good job.
>> Wait, come back. Do you want to say who you are and why you're here with us? Yes, she does. You go, girl. >> I'm a Daisy and I My name's Harie and
>> There you go. That's Harie and she's a Daisy Girl Scout. Thank you, Hie, for your help. Um, we are going to begin um with the town administrator's report and then we will address all these other wonderful scouts in the room. So, thank you for
joining us. Thank you very much. I'll be quick. This feels so high now. Um, so just wanted to give a few brief updates on HR. Uh, we've extended an offer for a new assistant town accountant. We are very excited. We plan to be introducing them to you in the coming weeks, but
want to make sure all notifications are made with their current employer. Uh, we think it's going to be a great addition to the team. Uh we've also been continuing to interview qualified candidates for the new customer service rep which will help manage that effort with Chrissy. Maryanne, Patrick, and Liam have all been really involved in
that. Uh and finally, I just wanted to sort of tease or share where we are now. We've had ongoing discussions about regionalization opportunities with some upcoming vacancies in neighboring communities. I plan to be coming back to you in the next few weeks with more details on that as we try to figure out
where there might be opportunities to sort of share a full-time role at um the department head level and then have some staff in each community that handle sort of the day-to-day. So again, we'll have a few more details on that, but it's a very early stages of the discussion and
it's uh seems like a pretty great opportunity at this point. So we'll see where it lands. Um, wanted to highlight an upcoming event. The solid waste advisory committee is having the repair cafe this Saturday at the senior center from 9 to 12. You can check out their web page or you can email swacks swac
swampscottma.gov to schedule a time for your repair this weekend between 900 and noon. Um, as many folks may have noticed, uh, we have finally updated the website as well. The change over from the old version to the new one is complete. Uh, I would say we soft
launched it two weeks ago and identified quite a few problems and things that didn't point where they should and we've been working to remedy those one by one. One of the big outstanding items that we currently have and I've heard from folks um throughout the last couple of weeks, we really need to get Google to do a new
crawl basically of the website because it's pointing to old or dead links. But in the interim, what you can do is search in the search bar on our website that gets you right where you need to be. But if you're, you know, sort of conditioned to go to Google or Bing or something like that, it will sometimes take you to the wrong place. Right now,
we're working to remedy that. Um, the user interfaces require a little new learning on where things should be, but it's really a much better organization of the information in the long run. It will help us maintain records over time and make things more easily accessible. We're also asking that everyone uh go
and sign up for the news alerts, which are opportunities for us to be communicating non-emergency information. uh whether it's something like the repair cafe, uh an updated agenda or minutes if folks are interested in it, but we really need you to go sign up at the website and choose what you want to
be getting recommend uh um communications on. So, please check that out. I again want to thank Diane, Jody, Charlotte, Shannon, and the entire host of others that helped us get this launched. We continue to work very hard on it, and so um I really appreciate the
effort that has been done and that is yet to come on that. Um, and then please feel free to send me a note. And I know some folks in this room have already done so. Uh, when you find things that don't work or things that you would like us to change or consider making for a future improvement, all of these are opportunities for us to continue to
improve it. Um, finally on the Hawthorne, I wanted to give an update. We've agreed in principle to the terms. We're at the point now drafting with the hope that we can have something back before you all on the 15th. Uh, it aligns very closely with the lease as drafted in the in the RFP. We've had
really good discussions so that both sides understand where we're coming from. Uh but as I said, our goal is is to have something next week. If not, it would be that one at the end of the month. Uh but we're we're working towards next week currently to get everything drafted and in front of you all for the final vote and ratification.
Um and beyond that, I'm happy to take any questions. I don't want to get in the way of the real show tonight that's sitting waiting in the room here. >> Um I just have a quick follow-up question about the um the lease then. Are we
is the ball in our court or their court? Their court. I assume we've given red lines back. They're going to respond. >> They responded and okay, >> our attorneys are currently reddrafting to >> Right. >> So then we can transition straight to long-term RFP, >> correct? >> Post lease signature. That's the plan.
>> And so far on that front, I had one meeting along with Marzy with Collers just to see what type of support they may be able to give us, whether it's looking at potential value or what could be done. They've worked uh the group that we met with and we intend to meet with others before we would move forward with anything has worked with like the
city of Portland and Maine with the old courthouse there because it's a similar example where it's a central location in the community. They're not looking necessarily for highest and best use to just put as much housing there as possible that would get them the highest revenue. It's trying to manage uh community expectations along with
>> revenue generation and the use within the context of the community where it is. Um, we plan to talk to others in, you know, similar skill sets to figure out who might be the best partner to help us in that. And then we've also had community members reach out, offer their support in both the drafting of a
potential RFP or participating in any way that they can. >> Okay. Wonderful. >> And is the scope of what we expect to happen there generally in line with what we've discussed publicly? Is there any real change in with what Yeah. the Swampscott Center for the Performing
Arts would be doing? No, it is in line with what was presented and what was discussed. >> Cool. >> Y >> um excuse me. Um any any update on Archer on the Archer Street Woods? >> Gino and Marzy were out there earlier
this week. Uh I think Tony Bandowitz may have been with them as well. If not, may have made a separate trip with Marzy. Uh what we're working on right now is coordinating closely with our contractors uh and consultants to make sure that we're verifying sort of where
there were wetland delineations and everything like that to make sure we're within the proper scope and remedy any issues and also working with Tony and the Concom on a similar request. Um I know the contractor was planning to be out there with Marzy and Gino to talk about materials because that's an ongoing concern as well to figure out
what the final sort of treatment is at the entranceways. Um and we would plan to be back to you. Right now we're paused as we verify all of that information um around wetlands and materials and uses to make sure that everyone's on the same page going forward. >> Got it. So you may have an update for us
next that I would plan to speak to you about it again going forward whether it's a week from now, two weeks, three weeks from now, you know, wherever we need that update. Absolutely. >> Thank you. >> Sure. >> And we had had quite a few obviously community members reach out from that neighborhood. So once that information is gathered and we have clear answers
for some of the outstanding questions that the community members have maybe getting some together one sheet or a community meeting so that they can understand the answers to their questions so that >> they feel heard also >> I think it would be both would be most
useful because uh I coordinated with David on outreach to those that had contacted us. >> Yep. um we have been in touch with anyone that I got an email from or her a call from and also I know David had heard directly from folks as well. So I think the one sheet and an opportunity to do something in person would give the folks that are interested and concerned
but may not have the time to be there and those that are more closely aligned. So sort of same message in two different locations to make sure it gets out. >> Perfect. >> So have we stopped work there until >> paused right now? Yes. >> Paused. Okay. >> All right. Okay.
>> Okay. We actually have public comment available if anybody is here for public comment. Three minutes. You'll approach Hal's microphone. State your name >> and your address. >> Hello, Joe Doulette, 148 Elwood Road. Among other things, I'm the theater guy
and it's my responsibility to let everybody know about some awesome theater stuff coming up this week. So, uh, number one is the High School Musical. It's the 25th annual Putnham County Spelling Bee. That's tomorrow and Friday night. It's a wonderful show. It's one act, so um not too long to sit
through and it will feel like a a beautiful time. Lights and Sound again, amazing. They've really used what the town has invested um to its extent. So, if you want to see kind of what what that brought. And then on Sunday, the Blue Big Band, not the Big Blue Band, but the Blue Big Band is the Swans Scots
Community Jazz Orchestra 2 PM. Um an opening act by uh the lead singer of Turtle on the String um Arya and a quartet. And then the Blue Big Band will be playing Duke Ellington's Far East Suite. Will be a fantastic show. So, hope you all can uh make either one of those or both of those events. Thank you
guys. >> Thank you. And seeing no additional comments, we will move on to old and new business and the presentation of our scout plaques about you or Mariel.
>> Marielen's going to start. >> So, thank you everybody for coming. This is pretty exciting. We've got a two-part series here. First, we're going to start with our newest Eagle Scout. Um, it's my
honor to present our newest Eagle Scout proclamation to Adrian Leaport of Troop number 53 here in Swamcott. And tonight for the presentation, we are going to present it from our own Eagle. We only have one and only Eagle Scout on our
board here. And >> that's you. >> That's me. I know. I got it. I got it. Yeah. >> So, earning the rank of Eagle Scout represents years of dedication, service, and personal growth. Adrian has demonstrated perseverance, initiative, and a strong commitment to the values
that scouting upholds. We also wish to acknowledge the guidance and support of his troop leadership, whose mentorship played an important role in helping him reach these milestones. Scout Master David Leaport and the Assistant Scout
Masters Jim Cristiano, Steve Hutchinson, Chuck Page, Benjamin Bomeroy, Jacob Warner, and Larry Zall. On behalf of the select board, it's my priv privilege to present Oh, there's actually you. It's >> my line. I think
>> you take that line. >> So, Adrien, >> come on down. Come on down. Adrian. >> All right. >> So, Adrian, >> I'll try to speak up >> here. Adrian, if you back up a little, this will look much better. Doug, you
move forward and that way somebody will. >> On behalf of the select board, it's my privilege to present this proclamation in recognition of Adrien Leaport's outstanding accomplishment and his positive contributions to our community. Congratulations, Adrian. >> Thank you. >> It is customary for us to have you a
little bit. >> You can use projects. >> That's fine. >> Yeah. >> After we'll talk about Doug after. All righty. So, my project was a restoration of a um World War I cannon in the local
cemetery. Um so, that was getting a new uh coat of paint on it. Uh repriming it, repainting it to be a nice historical color. Uh we have wheels that have just arrived, so we're going to put those on hopefully um in the next u day or two.
And um I also worked with the Rotary Club to get a plaque funded to actually get the names of the uh fallen from the First World War um on the plaque. But it's been a great experience. Um and yeah, thank you very much for this. This
is wonderful. Thank you. >> Congratulations. >> Great job. So next what we're going to do is be first before we start next just want to thank Shannon Olirri and Diane Marches for working so hard at making this
happen running around and getting the names and also the scout leaders all the scout leaders in Swamp Scout for advancing names. Tonight we're presenting a plaque that has the names of every Eagle Scout and Gold Star winner. That's a Girl Scout
equivalent to the Eagle Scout since uh 1925. >> Whoa. >> So that's 101 years of Swam Scout scouting achievement. And tonight to start the presentation,
we will have one of our own homegrown scouts, Evan Seagull. And Evan will begin the reading. What we're going to do is we're just going to quickly read off all these names. Every scout has a list of names and in honor of all of these people who have achieved something, we're going to
bang this out and then these plaques will end up hanging at town hall um starting tomorrow. So Evan, I just want to say one more thing is when the director of DPW heard that Evan was going to be on this plaque and he was going to be here tonight. He was very
kind to make sure that I understood and everybody understands what an intricate part in the success of DPW Evan Seagull is. So it's pretty exciting. All right, Evan, you want to come down? And then you folks, you guys wanna and
gals want to start lining up behind Evan so we can start reading these off. I have Daniel Cahill, James Deainy, David Garin, David Shepard, Edward Shepard, Charles
Carlson, Peter Gross, Danielle Matthews, Andrew Brandt, Steven Godman, Matthew Havichek, Buckley Wrow, Evan Seagull, Charles Janest, and Andrew Neman.
Robert Calhoun, Albert Gagy, Carl Ward, W Ralph Day, Harold Austin, Joseph Agna Redber. >> Why don't you come around the uh why don't you just go around the back side of the stand with Evan?
>> Very good. Thank you. >> Thomas Hutchinson, William Warnne, Nicole's Mark Nicoles, Thomas Colin, Kenneth Wicktorm, Anthony Barto,
Wallace Greyinger, Richard Olsen, Robert Petrilio, Floyd Webster, Richard Hake, Summer Craft, Barton Egg, Albert Dvit, Robert Webster, Lawrence Levven, Dean Surgeent, Kenneth
Robinson, Donald Webster, James Clark, Richard Woodman, Uh Kenneth uh Gman Stanley Stalker uh John uh Ostein uh I think I pronounced
that wrong. Robert uh uh season uh Allan uh Allan uh Alex uh uh Ler Brown Don uh
Donald uh Mbridge uh E uh J E Deckwith uh E D uh Donnelly uh Edward Felen uh Donald Uh Mick uh Falling uh Donald
Summer uh Austin Atwood Daniel uh Warm Wood >> George Jackson, Neil Borstein, Harvey Blotch, Glenn Shepard, Howie Seljan,
Paul Dine, uh Larry Gratus, Peter May Meer, um William William Chipman,
Michael Garantino, Peter Han, Pete, No, Peter Hansen, um Shearman Clevelnick, Bruce Bal, Russell Manur, Jody G. Barner, Mark Kaplan, Joseph O'
Conor, Andrew Woods, Sha Barry, Danty Diamato, Kevin Callahan, uh Gerald Schwarz, Steven Serby, Jeffrey Fieldstein, um Eugene Ellis, Gregory Miller, James
St. George, and Henry Lander. John Julian, Jonathan Austin, John Pedro, Michael Eilopoulos, Fedo Rogers, Douglas Atkins, Paul Callahan, Andrew Dum, Duny, Kevin Barry, Keith
Callahan, Daniel O' Conor, John Lacy, Vern Gford, Thomas Nelvice, Calvin Lamb, Richard de Francisco, Laura Keenan, Julie Lockach, Brittany Roberts, Arthur Duffy, Felix Gorovodsky,
Steven Paige, Mark Goldstein, Adam Shiloh, William Travisio, Amula David Carr, GA Crossman, Grace de Benadetto, >> Christopher Wy, Eric Austin, William Rogers, Matthew Kobet, Matthew Barrett,
Thomas Burke, Michael Antonellio, Kurt Joerger, Kyle Barton, John Seasta, Darren Lev Lavoy, Ellis Weber, Drew Brooks, Andrew Wro, John Supa, Matthew Haleion, Daniel
Cahill, Kenneth Ruggario, Raul Ley, Donald Ronald Jaso, David Trapaso, Steven Whipple, Aiden Pilaski, Ethan Grant, Mora Cronin, Grace Ramos, Elliot Pilaski, Jonathan Walger, Effie Cobbett,
and Adrien Leaport, Lars PCEL, Ivan Cadervo, Ethan Davis, Liam O'Brien, Dukean Paige, Jamie Amy Garber, Ariana Cassella, Allison Jarvis, Nora Walker, Hannah Jagger, Michael Norcott, Robert
Mclofflin, Luca O'Brien, and Charles Paige, Lawrence Walkley, Colin Oulen, Jonathan Braid, Ross Tibido, M. Coowall, Jason Felbrook, William Stone. So before you sit down, can you just
show us with the raising your hand how many of you will have your names on this plaque and our next plaque? All right. So Shannon will start getting your names ready and start having ready. Okay. So this will be hanging up at town
hall and you can go in. It'll be on the left. And um I think uh this is a a really great tribute to your hard work. Thank you guys very much. If you if you would just make yourselves sort of like a one squish you guys together so
somebody can take a really nice picture like the newspaper. >> Yeah. Come by the flag. >> There you go. Great. Do you want to get in there because you're all aspiring? >> All right, squat down there.
>> There you go. >> Perfect. >> Take a knee. >> Good job. Excellent. >> Move your paper from your >> Wait, do you have this cutie on the end? >> Great. >> All right, >> perfect. Thank you everyone for joining us and thank you for doing the hard work
of reading all those names so that we didn't have to. >> All right, we will now move on and you're more than welcome to stay, but I'm sure you all have homework to do. So, uh, to the discussion and possible vote
>> on the middle school MSBA statement of interest. And we have Superintendent Kalishman here and Max Casper, the facilities director to join us for this part of the conversation. Gentlemen, >> please. >> Hi, everybody. So, as I'm sure it's not
lost on anybody that the physical building of the middle school is a bit of an issue, not any other part of the middle school. Um, it's a pressing issue and we're here to discuss the statement of interest process and timeline with you. So, I'm going to have Max take it
away with his oh, thanks J presentation and then we'll answer any questions. >> Thank you, Superintendent Kishman. Uh I just have a brief presentation discussing the uh what a statement is just statement of interest is uh some of the conditions at the middle school and
then obviously we'll be happy to have a discussion uh take any questions. So what is the statement of interest? The statement of interest is the first step in entering the MSBA's core program uh which funds major renovations, additions
and new construction for K through2 schools in Massachusetts. Uh we're very familiar uh with MSBA's core program having just built the Swampscott Elementary School in a partnership with MSBA through the core program. The
statement of interest is it's really the first step. Um it allows districts to inform the MSBA of deficiencies that may exist in a local school facility and how those deficiencies inhibit the delivery of the district's educational program.
Um the statement of interest itself is is a relatively straightforward submission. Uh it's not a massive lift uh for us to put that together. We're obviously putting a a decent effort into it and and answering all the questions fully. Uh but the idea is, you know, you're not supposed to be hiring
professional help or creating some like massive study. It's really just reporting to the state to the MSBA the conditions at your building and for them to review. Um the submission of a statement of interest to the MSBA must
be approved by a vote of the school committee and the select board. Uh that's why we're here tonight. We have already been in front of the school committee. School committee voted unanimously unanimously to authorize the superintendent to submit uh a statement
of interest for the middle school. >> Point it over here. Oh, okay. >> I'll do it. Just tell me when. >> Yep. You can go to the next slide. Uh, so here's a timeline on the statement of interest process. Uh, the statement of interest period opened in
January of this year. The first couple months, February and March, we've been preparing the statement of interest. We're still finalizing it. um March into April local local authorization votes as I just discussed.
April 17th, that is next Friday, is the deadline for submitting statement of interests. So there's no wiggle room there. We have to have everything in order, all the signatures, all the votes in by that time if we will be submitting a statement of interest. Following that,
there's um a due diligence period. This is the MSBA's due diligence period where they are reviewing the statement of interest. Oftentimes they're visiting the buildings, interviewing stakeholders during that period um while they're making their decision because not every
statement of interest is awarded. Um they they only award some of them to the the neediest um districts. the end of 2026 is when we would um be selected if the MSBA does select
Swampscott to to advance and recommend it for eligibility. And then early 2027 through July 2027 is when this eligibility period would commence. Um it's it's important to understand uh
just sort of how how long this first step is. We we're sitting here in April 2026. We wouldn't even know if we have eligibility, likely eligibility to the end of this year. And then our period of eligibility doesn't start until some
point in the first half of 2027. And then there's a 270day window where you're in what's called module one of the MSBA process where you are forming the school building committee, completing the educational profile, and
ultimately likely authorizing local funding for feasibility and a schematic design. Um, I just wanted to point out how far off from today that that really is. That's really two years away
roughly. um before you're just kind of completing module one. And just to drill down a little bit further uh into the timeline, you can go to the next slide, Nick, please. Um we thought this was this was a helpful
slide. um having just completed a project and and understanding a project timeline, having real a real example and sort of mapping that onto what it could look like for a middle school project.
Um you see tonight, April, we're potentially voting on a statement of interest that would line up with a May 2027 feasibility coming before town meeting for approval. Um, again, if it tracks to the SCES
timeline, roughly fall 2030 is when town meeting could potentially be appropriating funding for uh a construction project. Um, with a project of this size, you're likely looking at a debt exclusion.
There was a debt exclusion for the elementary school. There was a debt exclusion for the high school. Uh, very unlikely there there would wouldn't be a debt exclusion. That would be roughly fall 2030 on this timeline. Uh with construction potentially beginning fall
2031. And again, if it followed a similar timeline, we're talking about a completed project somewhere along 2033. This is for sort of planning purposes. None of these are hard years, hard dates. It's just to kind of
conceptualize as we sit here, April 2026. If we go down this road, when is that completing? And obviously that plays heavily into sort of financial planning as well. Go to the next slide, please. Um, I want
to talk a little bit about the middle school itself and really like why we are looking at this option and and the conditions we have there. Um, a bit of good news. We haven't been ignoring the middle school. We've actually been doing things over the course of the last few
years. We've done a brand new roof, multiple millions of dollars. We've installed a new fire alarm system. Um, we've installed a new security devest vestibule at the building. Um, we've the town has already appropriated funds for a massive window project that we're
currently uh under design for. So, you know, we we saw some some things happen with the elementary schools and and them maybe not being treated fully correctly for years and and we didn't want to repeat some of those mistakes at the middle school. Um, and it is always hard
when you have a building that there's an uncertain future of, but you you know the our children are there every single day and it's it's important that we um you know, treat these buildings correctly even if there's some unknown. So, I think it really is important to recognize that we have already been
investing in this middle school. And, you know, it's unknown exactly what kind of project you get when you go into an MSBA process. That's just the nature of that process. But I'm I'm bringing this up because we think that there's good bones in in that middle school and that
there's an efficient project to sort of reuse the the middle school and not, you know, tear it down, put it in a landfill and build a extraordinarily expensive new building. That's really not our goal as we sit here today. Um, but the challenges at the middle school, we have
many systems at the middle school that are in very poor condition and they're they need to be on track for replacement. They need to be addressed. The the big ones that I I talk about a little bit, the uh the mechanical system, the HVAC system, some of the
pictures here um on this slide, that's a boiler that was installed in 1977 that we that we still operate today. That's the generator uh at the middle school that that is the backup generator for the uh emergency electrical system for the fire alarm system. Again, installed
in the late7s. It's in a corner inside the building. I I would like you to take a look at the generator at the elementary school. It's this massive exterior uh diesel fired unit uh comparing that to kind of what what we have there. And um basically that's a
car engine from the 1970s that we're that we're relying on. Uh and similarly the electrical system, the electrical service, most of the electrical distribution again dates to the 1970s when there was a large addition at the at the middle school. Some of the
electrical in the building is still dates to the 1950s when the original Shaw Junior High School was built. Uh the middle school is There's there's really there's something very important to understand about the middle school. It was built in
n in 1958 roughly. Uh but there was a massive addition in 1977 that converted the middle the the original junior high school into a high school and it was used as a high school for many many years until the new high school was built in the it was converted back to a
middle school. So we have two distinct sections of the building. One from the 1950s, one from the 1970s. Uh in addition to HVAC and electrical, uh security, fire protection, there's no sprinkler system at this building. Uh
the only school large school in the town that does not have a sprinkler system. Uh we have accessibility concerns. We do have an elevator, but it's from again the late7s. Uh and it's not a fully accessible building. There's multiple issues with doorways, with paths. I
think if you think of how you have to get to the gymnasium uh as a person needing accessibility, I think that really points out some of the struggles there. You have to go all the way around the building down a ramp. Uh it's definitely not a sort of equitable situation. And then building envelope
issues. Again, we're on path to we're on a path to addressing many of those with the new roof uh and the window projects advancing. Uh but still still concerns there. And on not on this list but important to recognize that sort of dovetales with many of these other
systems is hazmat. Um we have asbestous flooring asbestous pipe wrap in many area of the building that we're you know very much on top of. We've abated some areas over the course of the years. We continue to abate areas that are problematic. Um but it's important to
recognize that's a that's a real issue at the building. And that is my final slide. Um again happy to discuss have any interesting questions on the the process the document we've have shared the statement of interest with you uh the draft
version that's you know fair fairly close to being completed that we do hope to submit. >> So just just a few questions. Um so how many typically how many how many statements of interest you know would would be submitted annually you know on
on average the last five or 10 years any data there how many are selected and then what are the what are the pool of funds that are available at the state level that we're competing with others uh to to get >> yeah I don't I don't have the specific numbers but all of that information is
is available on the MSBA's website uh I I've looked at the that exact question like how many are submitted. It varies pretty interestingly wildly yeartoear. Um you'll see you know one year maybe 50 core programs and another year 20. Um
it's not about really the number that they that they uh approve. It's really the dollar value. Like there's a there'll be a high school that could be potentially a $600 million high school >> uh in you know whatever town it is. Uh, and that is going to impact the MSBA's
ability to how many projects they can do that that year. Um, so I would definitely point you to the MSBA's website for like specific data and information. It's there's a ton of information on that website that that speak to that. But, you know, their sort
of parameters, as I understand it, are really they have a certain amount of money each year that they distribute. >> And is that is that is that website max msba.org? org. MSBA.gov. >> I can tell you >> masschoolbuildings.org. >> Thank you, Jason.
>> Got it. >> It's between 100 and 150 annually that they receive. I looked it up while Max was talking 150 projects or dollars. >> Correct. >> Statements of interest. 100 to 150 statements of interest. It's
>> It can vary year to year. >> Thank you. Nick, >> can you just on the statement of interest? So when you send in a statement of interest, it's just like we're interested in getting the school repaired, up to snuff, or a new school.
Do they come in and evaluate it? And and what happens like we don't we don't have a financial plan on how to address this. So, how does it I know your your feelings
are that this takes a while, but I'm looking at this as if this happens fairly quickly because it looks like if we were to be accepted, we would have to do a feasibility. We'd have to go for
funding next year, right? We'd have to ask for funding. And how much how much would that funding be for a feasibility? Is that a feasibility study? Is that what it means? >> Yes, that that is like the first sort of um time that it comes before town
meeting and and funds are are appropriated for um perspective on it. Looking to the elementary school, the I think the the feasibility study was initially funded at 750,000 for the elementary school. Um ultimately around
900,000 was was what it was. Um just to put an order of magnitude. So, we would be looking for about a million dollars next year or just short of, >> do you think? >> I mean, we I don't think it's I don't think it's a good idea to try to like pin down exactly what that number is
today. It's a very different circumstance. You have to remember with the elementary school, we were looking like townwide for a site and >> right, >> but it's also 10 years laterish and things are way more expensive. So yeah, I mean that's probably a good order of
magnitude thing, but I don't want to sit here and say we're asking for a million dollars next year. >> And is this the same is this the same as was there another avenue as far as uh repair or
>> Yes, >> there was another there is I'm just I don't really >> sure no I can talk a little bit about that. Um MSBA has a another program called an accelerated repair program. Um right now they've they've started to do it every other year. Next year is uh
going to be an accelerated repair um year. It they they just started doing it every other year. So that that funds smaller uh targeted projects for um roofs, windows, uh HBAC projects. It
used to be boilers. Now they're uh exclusively funding heat pump projects with sort of the move towards electrification. Um smaller projects still still big a big deal um and you know significant funding
but that's the difference. >> And following on that did we were not using that for the windows on >> Nope. The windows are entirely funded by the town of Swampscott. We've we've discussed this >> in in the past. Um the reason that the
roof or the windows were not submitted as an accelerated repair project is because we knew that there was going to be a consideration for a core program and MSBA tells you to not submit an accelerated repair project uh if there
is a potential core program looming >> within a certain amount of time. >> Yeah. not like a hard line or anything, but um >> so going back to the larger point that I think Marielen was getting at a little bit, I think. Um and you mentioned it very briefly, but you seem to be somewhat definitive that we weren't
going to be pursuing a tear down brand new school approach. Is that is that really that clear? Did I understand you correctly? or is that still very much a lot of feasibility has to be done to figure out whether or not
it's going to be a brand new school or a major repair? >> Yeah, I mean again I think what what I was trying to convey is that we've looked at it, we've invested in the school, we understand the the building and and we believe that that building has life left in it and
and can be a good option for us moving forward as a town. But it's a feasibility study and it's not reasonable to sort of decide what is feasible before you have even done a
feasibility study. And as we experienced with the um elementary school project, you know, we're likely going to look at everything. I mean, we we looked at uh renovations of Hadley when we did the elementary school project. We looked at
small buildings. We looked at additions. Um, you know, we as a town, ultimately as a school building committee, like we have we we guide this process. It's not like we hand over the keys to the MSBA and they tell you everything that you're going to do. Um, having experienced it,
having been on an SBC, you know, it's we're partners with the MSBA, but we we drive the bus. They they have significant influence in some very specific areas. For example, they hire the designer. you have influence but they pick the architect. Um but we have
tremendous um ability to shape our project to shape the feasibility study. Um so I think we need to keep an open mind uh and let the process play out and and make wise decisions but I'm certainly going into it with the
expectation that we want to renovate the the middle school. I >> think the superintendent >> Yeah. No, I was just gonna I know this isn't exactly what you're looking for, but they from what we understand they prefer a renovation, which I think I've talked about here before that um because they're running out the buildings they're tearing down, they're just going in landfills and they're running out of
space. So, correct me if I'm wrong, Max, but they actually give more reimbursement for rena than a new build. Is that correct? >> Yeah, I think there it's sort of a multifaceted thing. Um we've had we've got feedback from the MSBA that they they like to see people retaining buildings instead of just tearing
everything down. Um, and then also I think what the superintendent is is is referencing is um you you end up likely getting more reimbursement when you do a renovation. Um, it's not that your rate is different. The formula is similar.
Um, but when you do a new construction, you hit these caps. For example, a big one is site work. And you you hit a c a maximum cap on site work and and then over that cap, you're not getting reimbured on over that anymore. when you do a renovation, you're you're not
hitting those caps on certain things. You know, there still are areas you're going to um likely hit caps on like like technology and FFN. Um but at the end of the day, your total reimbursement amount and rate of the project is going to be
higher. Likely your your reimbursement rate of eligible cost is actually the same, but you're likely to have more eligible costs with the renovation. And we feel we would have more ability to control the scope and cost of the of the
project if it is a renovation because we've done we've invested in the building. We know what is good about the building. Whereas if you're building new construction, everything's brand new from the ground up. You're paying for a new building where we we think that there's likely an opportunity to control
costs by doing a renovation. So then in what we have in our packet here, I this whole statement of interest has things filled out if I'm reading this correctly and I don't understand the answers to some of
them like it says is this part of a larger master facilities plan educational plan says no. Is an energy or decarbonization study been complete within the last five years? It says no. Does a district have a dedicated sustainability officer,
energy manager? It says no. >> Are all those answers? >> I think those are all the correct answers. Yes. >> We have done a decarbonization study, have we not? >> We haven't done a dedicated decarbonization study of the middle school. That's what we understand that
question to be asking. >> I mean, we could maybe answer yes and say that we've done done things, but I don't I don't think that would be the correct answer. >> Okay. It's part of climate leaders. It wasn't that doesn't check that box. >> In my opinion, it doesn't know.
>> Did the study we did include the building this buildings? >> Yes, but it wasn't I guess as deep as Max feels it or all buildings in the district. >> I don't know, >> which we did do all districts but all buildings but anyway. Okay.
Max, I have a question with the study that we did. We did a study when we were batt So when we were battling out, we wanted a new roof. Instead of getting a new roof, we got a study first. We got that study and in that study, it pretty much gave us um
an evaluation of the systems. >> Yep. >> Is that called the Caleb study? What was >> the Habib? Right. And so on the Habib study, it gave us also an estimate at that time of
what it was going to run us. But does that study help in any way? I mean, have we really looked and said, well, what is the real breakdown on what this could what our needs are and how how is this going to affect us?
>> Yeah, that study has actually proven very very helpful. It it's interesting because I I definitely shared your sentiment like felt like we needed a roof and we got a study um seven years ago, right? Uh ultimately we got a roof, but uh there's some really good
information in that study. Um >> we it it's informed our roof project. It helped us advance the fire alarm project. It's been helpful with the window with the window project. Um it helps sort of frame the needs of the
building. uh all of the needs that I talked about today with the HVAC, with the electrical, there's really good information in that in that report, uh about all those systems. Um so, I mean, I think it's been a a really valuable
tool. I think that the um sort of cost estimates in there have been valuable. They they've helped us sort of put preliminary numbers on some of the projects as we've as we've gone along. Um yeah, I think it's been quite useful.
But is it so on that study um does that study still give us some any type of an idea of what I'm just trying to find out what type of costs are we looking at and how do we fit it in and how do we fit it into our schedule and
when are things rolling off because I think one without having that structure in front of us how do we know how to how to implement ment this and how to fit it in because I would think that if we go
and ask for if we go to the MSBA and say, you know, we we want to do the study and then all of a sudden we're like, well, we're not going to be able to we're not going to be able to fund this at at this time. Is that going to hurt that? I'm going to guess that's going to hurt us with the MSBA. But I think because I just don't
see the real the real plan on how we're going to fit this how how do we fit this in? >> Sure. I mean, we've um you know, one of the questions on the on the SOI is not how much is your ultimate project going to cost, right? We don't we don't know. Um but it's a very fair question. I
think we all would like to to know the answer to it. The the new elementary school, brand new, um 160,000 feet in elementary school, cost us $und00 million. Um bid five, six years ago. That's that's really good information.
Um, a brand new middle school would certainly cost well more than that. Um, again, just trying to like use create some sort of upper bounds, lower bounds. Um, the like the roof cost about three $3
million all in fire alarm systems like one $1.5 million project. We're anticipating the windows to be like a $1.8 million project. Um, it's a question that I can't answer. I I
can't tell you exactly what the project scope is and we we don't have a cost estimate because of that. Uh, and it's it's tricky. Um, we've had preliminary conversations with town hall about trying to understand the the debt service and and when things are coming
off and uh trying to do, you know, some preliminary planning and and thoughts. But um yeah, I mean it it's it's sort of a catch 22. It's like you want we would like to have all the information. You can't have all the information until you
start down the path, right? >> Um I don't know. I think there is when is the when is the high school coming off in seven years? 32. >> And what do you know what the final
what's our final debt? >> Could you say 2032? >> 2035. >> 2035. >> Thank you, Joe. How and how much do we have left on that? >> That's about um $760,000
roughly. So in 2036 that will be gone. >> So and it's only it's less than a million that's left. >> Not total but total. What's the total payment? >> Um there's still
over 7 million outstanding on the high school. So, seven million on that and then our debt service on fully funding our unfunded liability will be 2032. So, there will be room in debt service.
>> The unfunded liability is part of operating. >> Operating >> that's not >> Yeah. But if it's if it's in operating that means we'll have more money in operating to put towards debt >> if you'd like to. I just want to make sure if you'd like to if we like make sure it wasn't that debt was rolling off.
>> No, no debt. We have debt rolling off and then in 2035 and then we have this other So we get to six years. Huh. Okay.
>> It lines up perfectly. >> Looks a little bit better. >> Yeah. Yeah. When we first sort of like was talking about it, I don't think it lines up perfectly, but you know, you start to see maybe a path, you know, >> right, >> with how the debt service rolls off. >> Yeah. I think the rhetoric will I mean,
obviously, it's we we've already started this conversation publicly. We had this conversation when all three committees met, you know, back in the fall at this point, and it was pretty clear that the committee supported going forward, at least on the um statement of interest in
working towards a better understanding how this falls into a timeline so that we could better understand how to prepare ourselves financially. I think the worst part of the timeline is feasibility study to be honest just because of where it falls in line with
some of the financial expectations we're going to have for the next 18 months which you know while that's not ideal it's also not a reason not to go forward to do it. I think we just have to understand that yeah, the landscape's
going to get worse before it gets better. Um, but I I don't in my opinion I don't think it's a reason to delay. Um, >> no. When you said Nick, a lot of people apply. Uh, but is it likely that >> right
>> everybody every everybody gets into the shoot or we it's more likely actually that your first try you donate get into the shoot and this whole thing moves back by at least a year. It it's not >> it's a competitive process. Everyone does not get into the shoot. >> Yeah. >> It's a both the quality of the project,
quality of the application, >> and they take a look at, you know, where they're spending money statewide and there's a number of factors. It's a board that's appointed that works with the treasur's office, >> right? >> Um so there's a lot that goes into it and the one thing that we had talked about a little bit is whether it's funding for feasibility or deciding on a
future debt exclusion, those are really opportunities for the community to reaffirm their support. Mhm. >> So it's, you know, you all have had discussions about the idea that this is a priority on some level and trying to make it work financially is what's important. But whether it's funding for feasibility or a decision around a debt
exclusion in the future, those are opportunities for the community to say yes, this still makes sense even with our competing priorities or unfortunately it doesn't. And you know, they're sort of built into the process that they accept. Some communities will not fund a feasibility even though they get in. And some communities will get
off at the debt exclusion and be back in a few years. Like these are opportunities for the community to say yes, this is a priority for us. We want to do it. We want to move forward throughout the next seven years as you get to the point that there's an open building. So it's it's not a endall tonight is what I'm trying to say. >> Yeah. I mean I I I think the time I
think the time for us to act is is now. I mean the timeline is so far it's so far out into the future. You know, we have to start now. There's no guarantee that this happens, but let's start the process so that way we can start preparing ourselves.
Just looking at just doing the the high level uh you know the high level of uh you know of of that uh that's rolling that that's on and that's going to roll off. This has to be a priority. This has to be a priority for our you know for the future of Swampskit. Um I mean that
this has been the problem uh historically is we haven't uh made these types of investments probably since the you know since this from the 70s until we built this high school. You know there's an enormous gap in time where these investments weren't you know weren't made and now we're on a little
bit of an accelerated uh timeline to to catch up. But hopefully we can do this we can start this and then we can get on a more regular cadence moving forward. Um, so I'm I'm fully in support of uh signing off tonight. >> Yeah, likewise. And I appreciate, you
know, the the time frame uh clarity. I think we've had a lot of these conversations that it hasn't necessarily felt very clear or exactly how long we're talking, not necessarily from you guys, but just in general. Um, and whether or not we should do the windows and oh, we're going to build, you know, we're going to uh why do the windows
when we're going to do the school very soon? And you know, it just gets confused. But when you lay this out like this, it >> it makes it very very clear. Is there anything else to a little bit to Nick's point? Anything else we could be doing to make our application stronger?
Is you know, like I don't even know. We're going to open the town warrant tonight. I mean, you know, is there anything that one would do to make your application even stronger? Would you have a anything from town meeting? Would you do anything in that regard to show
that the community is highly motivated? >> A unanimous vote of the select board. >> That certainly helps. Um I, you know, letters of support are are helpful. Maybe letters of support from uh our
representatives at the state might be helpful. Um you know, I think it it's the content of the application is is the key. We've been working um as a team in the school department um kind of putting it together the principal of the middle
school um IT finance uh special education sort of like identifying which questions uh are best to be answered by which specialties. Um I think that's the most important thing is is the is the
content and just the real true um state of the middle school. I think their ultimate visit to the school is probably more important than anything even this what we put in the application. Um but no, I mean there's nothing else that comes to mind for me sort of that that
we need. I think you know the the votes are are are imperative like we we don't submit without without a vote. It's uh that's just how it how it works. >> Yeah. >> Where does the funding come from with the state? What mechanism does the state
use for this section of funding? Do you know? >> I believe it's a bond that is renewed every five years or something by the legislature. We can look into that and get it back to you though. >> It's not It has no relation to the federal government. >> I don't believe so. No,
>> I don't I don't know. I know like states like New Hampshire don't have it h have a similar program at all. They the communities build their schools entirely locally funded which would indicate there's probably not a federal program but I I don't really know either. >> I just have to ask because it's like the first thing on this why do they ask
about the energy stuff like first and foremost is there any meaning behind that? Is that like a very important thing to them or >> I don't I don't know. um the >> because I just feel like our answers are kind of they're not maybe they're honest, maybe
they're accurate, but they're not strong. >> I think the the goal is that the design and future work is prioritizing sustainability and green infrastructure. >> So an openness and a willingness and a desire to move forward in that way is I think what's most important to them. I'm
happy to sit down with Max and see if there's any opportunities for us to con reconsider a particular answer or to talk to you specifically, Doug, about any that you may have in mind. But, you know, I think their goal, as with many of the state programs, is to drive communities towards adoption, similar to how green communities started.
>> And so, a community that's willing to sort of focus on that as part of their prioritization of the project, >> is what they're they're hoping to find. Yeah, I would suggest that you rethink some of these a little bit or beef them up a little bit. We don't say anything about climate leader.
>> I mean that's something I mean I mean we have done an analysis. I would argue that this one in the middle could be a yes. Um but I just you know if it's if it's irrelevant it's not really that important and that's fine but you know if we've got an opportunity it's going to be competitive then it's a little bit
like a marketing thing. we say conference our um what we did at the elementary school because you know that we're we're here for it >> done at the elementary school >> like there should be an appendix of just this is what we did there and we are willing to do it here >> in some regard
>> or you could say please call Doug Thompson >> no please call Martha actually >> or Martha Schmidt yes >> I think having just completed you know a highly successful project with the MSBA with you know an EUI under
>> 26 6 um geothermal fully electric building that they know about. >> That's that's a check mark in our in our box. >> We should lead with that. >> Well, then put it in there somewhere. Don't let them forget. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Even if it has to be an asterisk like this doesn't really answer your question, but we want to remind you,
>> right? >> Yeah. And just keep in mind like that is a document that we created. Um we're actually submitting this like in a form and some of them are just like yes or no questions. Many of them we do have an opportunity to expound on, but >> um sometimes we're just checking a box
and that doesn't really come through in the draft document you have. >> Fair. >> All right. >> So, we need a vote. >> Yep, we do need a vote. >> Does that mean you're ready for a motion, Doug? >> I am, but David seemed most eager. >> All right, let's hear it.
>> No, I'm I'm I'm just I'm I'm ready for the uh select board to support the uh the statement of interest in entering the MSBA's core program for the Swampscott Middle School. second. I'm >> I'm sorry to interrupt. There's very specific vote language required by the
MSBA um that you that we would recommend that you read. >> Okay. End here. >> Where is >> it at the end of our packet? This resolves form of votes. >> Yes. Sorry. >> Require form a vote. >> All the way at the end. >> All the way at the end. Okay. Got it.
Okay. Okay. >> Please use the text below to prepare the required votes. >> Yep. Okay. Having convened an open meeting on April 8th, 2026 prior to the SOI submission closing date, the Swampscott Select Board in accordance with its charter bylaws and ordinances had has voted to authorize the
superintendent to submit uh the MSBA uh the statement of interest form dated April 2026 for the Swampscott Middle School located at 207 Forest Avenue, which describes and explains the following deficiencies and priority C categories for which an application may be submitted to the Massachusetts School
Building Authority in the future. Priority five, replacement, renovation or modernization of school facility systems such as roofs, windows, boilers, heating and ventilation systems to increase energy conservation and decrease energy related costs in a school facility. Priority seven,
replacement of or addition to obsolete buildings in order to provide a full range of programs consistent with the state and approved local requirements. Building deficiencies include aging, failing or non-existent building systems such as HBAC, electrical plumbing, accessibility, fire suppression,
building envelope security and interior finishes and hereby further specifically acknowledges that by submitting this statement of interest form, the Massachusetts School Building Authority in no way guarantees the acceptance or the approval of an application, the awarding of a grant, or any other
funding commitment from the Massachusetts School Building Authority, or commits the Town of Swampskit to filing an application for funding with the Massachusetts School Building Authority. >> Daniel, can I take you as a second? >> Second. >> All right. All in favor of David's long
but proper vote, >> I >> I. And that's unanimous. We are very glad to support this uh statement of interest. And thank you, Max. >> Thank you >> for signing up to do this again. >> Thank you, Max. >> Thank you. >> All right.
We're going to move on to discussion and possible vote on the town's action related to ICE and uh the federal immigration enforcement. >> So, we circulated a draft that I got some feedback. I got a draft back from council today or last night rather that
I shared um with Doug specifically. >> Um my question is if we would >> Yes, we are >> discussed. Yes. >> Yes. We are going to proceed >> uh with the reddrafted version. >> Doug's gonna tell us how it's reddrafted. >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, I just I wanted to put it out
for >> Yep. All right. So, the revised resolution for everyone's benefit is as follows. Much of which is what people have seen before, but uh slickboard resolution. Whereas the current federal administration's policies, procedures, and methods used to enforce civil immigration have led to fear and concern
in Swamscot. And whereas the enforcement of the nation's federal civil immigration laws is solely the responsibility of the federal government, not the Swampscott Police Department or any other town departments, no Swamscot police officer performs the functions of a federal immigration officer. Whereas the governor of Massachusetts issues
executive order number 650, EO650 on January 29, 2026, which among other things bars federal immigration officers from using state facilities to quote facilitate civil immigration enforcement efforts unquote and conducting enforcement activity in non-public spaces of public buildings and whereas
there's a typo there. Um the tennis swampscott through its select board is governed by the constitutions of the United States and the commonwealth of Massachusetts. The select board consistent with the oaths taken by its members follows that law. And whereas the select board strives to ensure that all persons living in, working in, or
visiting Swampscott be treated fairly and equally regardless of their national origin, race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, disability, immigration status, ethnicity, or political viewpoint. And whereas the select board further states that the officers and other employees of the police department affirm its current
policy and practices regarding immigration enforcement. Whereas this select board resolution does not prevent town police officers, employees, or officials from lawfully discharging their duties in compliance with any applicable state or federal legal requirements, including but not limited to 8 USC section 1373 in keeping with
current practices, including if presented with a criminal warrant court order from a court of competent jurisdiction or other evidence of probate of probable cause as required by the Fourth Amendment in the United States Constitution. Now therefore, the Swampscott Select Board affirms the above commitments to members of the community and hereby proclaims as
follows. The town shall not use the property within its custody and control, including parking lots, garages, parks, or buildings, including the interior or exterior areas of any parcel upon which a building is located for staging areas,
processing locations, or operations basis for federal immigration enforcement actions. Town officials and employees shall not provide access to non-public areas of town buildings unless required by a valid judicial warrant or court order
issued by a judge or magistrate sitting in the judicial branch of state government or of the federal government or other applicable law or valid legal justification. Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to require action inconsistent with any applicable state or federal
law, regulation, or policy to diminish the statutory authority of any executive branch entity or to require action that would be inconsistent with other legal requirements for a state or federally supported. How do lawyers live anyway? Okay. Um >> um legal requirements for a state or
federally supported or funded program. Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to restrict or interfere with the execution of lawful judicial warrants or judicial orders or the enforcement of criminal law. This proclamation reinforces and affirms the town's emphasis on providing for the public safety of community members and does not
restrict or interfere with the lawful conduct of civil immigration enforcement. In addition, the town's responsibility to protect its citizens and visitors. The select board urges all residents and visitors to express their views in peaceful and non-violent ways which have been shown to be the most effective way to counter and roll back the actions of federal immigration
enforcement agents. Hopefully passed by the vote of the Swamp Scott select board on this day. Okay. So, um, to Doug's point, this, um, proclamation has been heavily vetted through council
to ensure that we are not putting we're not jeopardizing swamps in any way for maintaining this viewpoint from a federal or state perspective. Um, obviously there are no guarantees, but we have all the right language that we're meant to have so that we're not
putting ourselves in harm's way from, you know, budgetary issues or anything like that um to the best of our abilities. >> Right. And it's highly consistent with many other jurisdictions that um, you know, of similar competence and orientation.
>> Correct. >> So, I'd make a motion to uh approve this resolution. I will second. >> Additional discussion. >> All right. All in favor? >> I >> I >> I. >> None opposed. So, >> Doug, you can cross it off the list.
>> Y >> something we've accomplished. >> Appreciate your work and appreciate the town administrator's uh >> diligence. >> Diligence in trying to get us exactly what we were looking for. No, not at all. Um, >> thank you, Nick. >> Thank you, Nick, very much. Thank you.
>> All right, we move on to item five, discussion and possible vote on fiscal year 2027's preliminary budget as updated. >> This is very satisfying. Shannon, thank you for this. >> You made a lovely >> It's a long piece of paper for our long
range financial plan. So the the goal tonight is to be responsive to the request for a longer range financial plan. The document that I had shared in the electronic um draft of the packet I have tweaked a little bit. Um the one
change that was made after feedback from a few different folks was to make sure that on the town side we were we're at I think on the salary um consistent with the our current planning for you know both salary and expenses and reflective of what we did this year. and in the
same way to match the school's um work this year to get to three and a quarter as a a number that we're carrying going forward. So, I just wanted to give a couple of slides here with a few points and then I'm going to open that up as a PDF to view it as best we can online. I don't know how good
that's going to go for us, but we'll see see what happens. So, this is a five-year projection uh to give the context that folks have been looking for in terms of this year's decisions in with the idea that, you know, having a good sense of what's ahead or as as good a sense as we can have of what's ahead.
This is something that I I plan along with Patrick to regularly update at the least it would be quarterly. You'll hear about this in the summer. You'll hear about it again in the fall. This will be probably the form that we'll take for future projections of both revenue and expense as well which is we did it a little different this year being that I
was about four weeks in. And just again on the assumption side this is based on a mix of the things that we do know the financial policies and then the best informed projections that we can have. But sort of the further further out we get the the less realistic or specific
it is because we're going beyond our collective bargaining that we currently have and and that type of thing. to just highlight a few assumptions here. Um it's 2% levy plus 425 in new growth. We carry state aid flat because it has not consistently been growing. It's
something that each year we'll be able to sort of move based on governor's budget which is you know first few weeks of the calendar year each year. Um and then that also changes as we go through the legislative process where April vacation is the house and then the senate comes sometime between then and whenever they decide to move the budget
forward. Uh on health insurance, we're holding it at 10% growth. We had the 14 last year. This year was 10 without plan redesign. I don't know what GIC can really do to get it lower than that. That was something that was on the table this year. The governor eventually
pulled it from the proposals with her appointees and they focused on removing GLP1s which did make a significant impact. So it was just one of those things where I guess they were choosing which one this year they would focus on and I think going forward this will be a question. Uh if we can do plan redesign
at the state level in GIC to sort of bend the growth and then obviously part of future discussions as we do look at potential deficits would be having uh ongoing conversations with the uh the PE here in town as well on local receipts. I just wanted to highlight that we're
following the policy as best we can, but where we have actual information or projections that we think we can rely on, we're trying to thread them in. And so the idea with Hadley is occupancy tax and local receipts and um the food and beverage. And so those are things that,
you know, working with Marsy and the team were able to look back at what was proposed, what we all anticipate, and and those numbers are threaded in. Uh and sort of the the different side of that would be looking at when a particular piece of new growth would come on. So a large residential
development as we get more information on when we anticipate it opening. That's when we will update this to make sure that it reflects the the year in which we anticipate getting that that new growth. But it's a little difficult to be picking year to year uh when we start to look at deficits because we don't
want to be doing it sort of from the super optimistic view to say oh there's not a deficit because that new growth will hit the right year. We want to make sure that we're basing it on information that we have instead. >> Um >> I have a couple little com questions comments on that. Was that the last slide? >> I'm going to go to Can I set up the PDF while you start to ask questions?
>> Sure. Um, is the flat state aid actually what the like last three year average is or is just so I know I mean contextually is that a conservative estimate or is that really what the average is flat?
>> It is a conservative estimate and it's what we did this year. I think in the end for the projections and when we got the governor's numbers we changed it to reflect our proposal and >> but in general state aid does go up. It's just a matter of is it 2% 3% for what
>> the the question is the assessments and so like the net increase can be different if we have more charter students going out then it can significantly impact what our number can be >> currently we're I think we benefit from the fact that the school system is very attractive to folks. So we're the number
that in that charter out dollar is going down year-over-year. >> That may not always be the case. uh other assessments MBTA and others they kind of use to be able to say state aid is increasing when you look at AGA and chapter unrestricted government aid and
chapter 70 but they don't the press release doesn't talk about what they take it's only what they give >> okay so putting that all together our net increase over the last three years or so do you do you >> I think it's something we could push a little bit higher but my goal is to be
more conservative to be quite honest at this point because as we get that information, it would make next year >> sort of easier to to make, right? >> You know, we've had these kind of discussions before about this, right? Because, you know, you look down at the bottom line here and you see the
increasing negative negative number, >> but if you even just add 1% on state aid each year and that starts to ripple through all these years, right, >> then it can add up to real money, right? Um, so I don't want to be like sitting here for an hour, you know, pulling our
hair out, whatever we have. Um, and you know, but it's actually a relatively simple math. It's really an assumption issue, a very small but significant one, >> but to that to that same effect, if if you know, we're assuming right now health insurance is is going to be one
number. So if the if if we're off by 1%, that's also a large >> that's also a large number in the opposite direction. It might be that those aren't the same magnitude. I don't know if those are the same magnitude number. So that's you know just I think to be uh and even on the 10% I was going
to ask is that really ultimately you know what the last three years have been. I'm just picking three years just >> I I actually think the last three years just doing the simple math that I'm capable of not Patrick's math it has been over 10%. >> Okay been higher. >> Okay. >> And but this is no assumption of ever
coming out of the GIC or incentivizing people to not take our insurance. Correct. >> Correct. This is current sort of current setup current world just >> something we're exploring >> correct >> it is and the the consultant on that on the GIC side we'll look to the sort of
threshold is get all of our information that we can request once every three years as part of the contract >> and if we're net subsidizer they will go out and see in the market what we may be able to do if we are not we are not leaving GIC so you know
>> just just to answer your qu actually just you were spot on actually. Maybe you knew that state aid and health insurance are about the same amount. So >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Um just no just and Nick just one other one other question is how do how does
this feather in with what our available uh excess levy capacity is? >> So let me zoom in because I'm having a hard time even seeing this. So, um, excess levy capacity, if you just look at the screen, David, like is right, it's like the fourth down there.
>> So, in 2027, excess levy capacity is 2.5. >> Yep. >> Um, the change is that's the number that we're using this year, right, Patrick? I just want to make sure I'm saying this correctly because I had the same question. David, >> when we look at next year after using
961, is that right? >> Yep. This is where we stand. And then when we get to 29, we're using all of that to try to close it. >> Look at that. It's perfect. We landed right at zero. >> Well, no, that's it's just zeroing out that number. But don't give Patrick that
much credit for this, you know. Um, >> what a soft landing. But as we, you know, look down here, the surplus or deficit, the bottom line is really, I think, what you may ultimately be getting at, which is as we start to go into, we're already in deficit spending. This is year two.
>> Yeah. >> Um, so we get to the point that there's now a delta to make up >> as opposed to excess levy that's available when you get to 29 and it's just under 500 in current projections. >> So very technically, if everything was right in 2029, we'd actually need an override.
>> Yes. And to be clear, this is a snapshot, >> right? >> Everything is not going to go exactly as we expect. This is based on assumptions. And I'm saying this more for my own benefit than >> than you all. >> I'd like to understand by this chart.
>> When we look at it, it will change probably every three months when we're looking at it up or down. Um, as we get more information, have a better understanding certainly on the revenue side where we think things will end. um but also as we're able to either identify ways to control cost or we see things that are going beyond our
control. Um but this I just want to underline for everyone it is a snapshot a moment in time that we will come back to repeatedly so that we're having informed discussions about 27 right now but also 28 29 and whatever going forward. >> Yeah. I mean I think for me it's important that this document is dynamic
and that we're constantly evaluating it. We're constantly updating it. So that there was a lot of leg work to get to here for you guys to put this together now because we didn't really have I mean we had bits of starting points but nothing like sort of this concrete and
as um as this evolves and has more information some of these will become more solid but then we're we're always going to have that squishiness in the outy years because there is no crystal ball in town hall and we have no certainty. So we can make the best of it that we can, but should be informing,
you know, some of our choices like whether or not we where we can fit the middle school and what this looks like and if we were in 2029 to have to go before and say, "Okay, well, we're looking at a deficit of half a million and potentially a million dollar in spend
>> for feasibility study." Like it gives it context rather than, >> you know, as we were discussing earlier, Marielen So let me on your first slide you had 2% on a tax levy. Do you have 2% and then here I'm reading two and a half%.
>> Let me zoom in. >> So >> the second line down. >> Oh yeah. >> In your narrative slides. >> Yes, you're right. I apologize. The narrative was incorrect. It's two and a half. >> Okay. yard two and a half. >> Yep. That's >> um
>> two and a half. Thank you. >> Two and a half. And for something like the new growth, we would have a better idea where we see beyond the 425 as we have a better understanding of some of the larger residential going forward. as we discussed a couple meetings ago that we
can highlight as we move. >> Okay. Well, this will this is the first time we're seeing this, but this will not be the last time. And we will continue to have conversations as as people get a more more intimately aware of what's happening on the spreadsheet. We can certainly give feedback to Nick.
>> Yeah. upon our each individual review or um obviously we can have it on another agenda um to discuss but I think >> and we'll be talking about it tomorrow night with Vincome as well. I wanted to make sure that we talked to you all at first for at least this first blush but they as with you wanted to make sure
that's something that they had at their disposal to make decisions in the current fiscal year. And we're happy to sit down with folks individually if you know you would like deeper discussion or um there's a number of other workbooks that are behind all of this obviously, but we wanted to roll
this up to something that's at least in part digestible in a meeting like this. >> I just want to touch back on what Doug is saying as far as >> as far as the state revenues. just um I'm just wondering based on
historical data on our assessments and our revenues and what the state is forecasting because what I'm hearing is the state is forecasting a little bit of doom and gloom.
>> So I guess being I guess we have to be conservative. >> Yep. And to further uh shoot holes in my theory, um even if you gave it a couple percent increase, which I grant in this
environment would be aggressive, that's that's not really going to make a material difference uh really in the bottom line. I mean, even if you got a 70, 100, $200,000 out of it, you that you're not materially affecting the trajectory.
And my hope would be that as we do get more information on any of these that we're holding as conservative, it makes the year we're in next year more realistic >> better. >> Uh and then has the knock-on effect out. That's part of why, you know, I think
maybe even Patrick would want to be a little bit more optimistic than I am. From where I sit, I want to make sure that we are being realistic so that we are prepared. If you know, state tax revenue crashes, then local aid is one of the
things that they normally will just keep basically at zero. It won't roll back, but it's not going to grow. And that's when you get into the give and take part of it where they might say it's increased by $300 million, but assessments have increased by a significant number as well. Um we're we're happy to think about adjustments
and certainly the with the schools the three and a quarter was one that looking at what we did this year and how hard they worked to get where they were it was reasonable to make sure that you know we're reflecting both of those efforts in the in the years going out as well because we think it's again sort of
conservative with a small C and something that we can be focused on trying to do everything we can to fund other priorities if and when funds become available. >> Yeah. And I mean there are ballot initiatives that that are upcoming, you know, one around the repeal of uh of recreational cannabis and the other
around rent control. Uh both of those could have material uh impacts to our budget as well as the state budget >> and one to decrease the state income tax. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> I another one that has been in the legislature for multiple sessions is the
idea of allowing local option on uh meals tax to be doubled. And so especially as we have, you know, new places to eat and go and bend and it's it's an opportunity that there might be more significant increase in local receipts at that level. And that
is one of the few ways that we're not just reaching into the taxpayers's pocket. It's folks from other communities that also are coming um that are pitching in and helping us to pay for some of the services that we all would like to be able to fund. I think the the little bit of um worry with that
is you have to remember on a on a million dollars on a million dollars alone for for the food and for the food it food and beverage we're only making $7,000.
So, it's it's really in the hotel area and in the cannabis area where we get a little bit more bang for our buck. So, >> yeah, you get >> I mean, I hope they do change it, but I don't, you know, don't start getting all
excited that it's a whole lot of money because it's really not. >> No, I mean, the hotel's the >> hotel is where it's at force. Yeah, that's the six the 6% versus the 75 basis points for for FNB. Um, so I just have a question. So on the town budget,
you because I can't see it that far from here. On the town budget, you're you're only putting in a 2% increase >> for 27 and 28. And is that what it's really coming out
to with especially with the way our contract? >> So what we had looked at was a percentage for salary and a percentage for expenses. Yeah. And so I'm not sure what the final breakdown in that if it got rounded up or down. Um if you want
to jump in. >> Yeah, I'll just jump in. So for town operations going out into the future, we assumed 3% overall assumption on salaries. Excuse me, I'm getting over a cold. And um 2%
on operating expenses. And I just want to call out this town budget number does not include fixed costs. Those are up above under obligations. >> But the 2027, this is the the budget. >> This reflects what's in our budget proposal at this current time as you all
approve. >> And to Mary Ellen's point, that so 2% is actually for that town budget line is the year-over-year increase at this point for the town budget >> minus fixed cost. >> No, because then it goes to we go to 3% in
>> what year is this? 20 29. 29. >> And what do we have? What do we have the schools at? >> Three and a quarter. >> Okay. Mine says four. >> Yeah, it says four. >> That was what I said. The update between when >> these were all printed and
>> the final changes that were made. >> It'll be consistent three and a quarter across. >> Right now. Yeah. >> Thank you both very much. I do have I'm just I have to bring it up for this year's budget. I mean, at what point are we going to be discussing the schools
sitting on the nant revolving account cash? >> Have we not discussed it? Well, I I you know, the schools schools have in September $574,000
in a revolving fund and I would like to see that money applied to this budget and I don't know how the select board is, you know, what the select board's opinion is on that or I think it's really important if >> can I just ask a question first? Mhm.
>> You I assume you saw we saw an email or like a breakdown of the the draw down. How much is anticipated to be used by certain Did you see that? >> I'm not Well, let's here's what we have is we have we have a budget. So, the
school committee has a budget. They're working off of their budget and they've reported this so far this year that they're doing a great job and they're coming in under budget. So coming in under budget, there's cash sitting in this account.
Uh I think there's there has to be a clear conversation. I mean, so if the school is saying, "Hey, we're working off of this account and we're going to take a little bit more out of this account." There's no financial policy of having just this lump sum of money
sitting there when the schools just go in and take it in and out. I mean I we do have a mechanism in the event that we have an unforeseen expense in in any department we go to the finance committee reserve which is specifically
set up to take care of unforeseen issues. But to have this amount of cash just sitting in an account while we're reaching into our unused levy
is insane to me. So, I think it's important, Doug, to just vocalize the data points from that email because I mean, when you say 400, what I what you say 540,000 >> on August, excuse me, September 11th,
I'm saying what the schools reported was 574. >> So, at the end of this year, based on the current rate of spending from that account, what will be left? I I just want to be Are you asking us the question or the superintendent just to be fair to you?
>> I'm happy to try to answer it, but I don't know if you're actually asking us or asking >> Well, I think it's the I think it's the select board that has to weigh in. I think if the I think if the members of the select board say, "Hey, I'm okay with the schools sitting on a large fund of money and going in and
using the excess levy." I think that's that's what people have to say. >> Well, I wouldn't say it that way. whichever way you want to say it. I mean, >> here's here's what I understand. And I don't I don't have the memo in front of me or the email, but here's roughly what I understand. And if I'm way off, please
correct me. But basically, what I understood from that memo was that >> there's the 540 at that point in time. They expect it to be something like half of that or something by the end of this fiscal year. Uh 200, 300.
>> I think that's it's it's going to be higher at the end of this fiscal year. 400 by 400 by the end of this fiscal year >> and then your budget next year is an assumption that you use another 200 or so but so by the end of the following year it would be down to 200. >> Yes.
>> Okay. So that's so um I still don't have 100% clarity in my mind whether or not I wish or I should have or they or someone else should have said something at some point earlier about whether or not this existed and what would be left and when and all that. I'm going to put that aside for
now. I feel like now through all these conversations, many of which you've uh uh helped to spur, um we've all have, I think, total clarity on what's in that account, what it can be spent for, what the projection is, and I think the
schools have heard loud and clear. I hope I would think that a dialogue about if that balloons next year, I would I would expect, not that I'll be here, but the superintendent probably would be saying something about that. Um, so I think that we've brought clarity and
transparency to the situation. Um, and right now we have a budget. Whether or not you want to take money out of that budget, I would assume, you know, there's two options then. Either then they're going to say, "Well, then we need more general fund money um to get
to the same point." Or if what you're really saying is you want them to just cut their budget, uh, that's another thing. That's not that's not an opinion I have right now. But that's kind of my understanding of the situation. >> Well, to speak to the first item, which is sort of like how we got to where we
are, I totally agree. We have much more transparency than we had originally. We will have further transparency. The tri chair met and has committed to in May or June meeting and going over all the financial guidelines, the what we use
for free cash, the parameters by which we, you know, the boundaries by which we stay as a town. In addition, we are adding this to the docket to be discussed of the expectations of the how the town and the school committee can work together to come up with parameters
by which that account is more well regulated so that we don't end up in this situation again. So there is clarity going forward. Um so we have all committed to doing that. schools aligned with that school has come to every table
and answered every question we've asked involving this account. We've pushed back a lot both publicly and in tri chair pushed back a lot to get to a point where we think that given the facts of what occurred we can still put
the school in a successful position but we're not going to put the taxpayers in a in a worse off position and they are working to they're continuing to commit to do that and and I think we will get there. Do you like me to chime in or >> feel free? It's up to you, Jason. You're
welcome to. >> I was just gonna say one, I actually agree with you that we should have a financial policy about the funds and I think Nick and I will could talk about that and figure that out. I don't disagree with that. Just to go over it again for clarity sake, there has been years where this fund was at zero. That
is not what we want. That is not good financial planning. That is not a situation. We will be coming to you for way more if we zero it out. That's just the facts. Yes, it grew in large part because again again in we get three payments from the hunt. So it comes
beginning of the year, midy year, end year. And then it will drop in June when we pay our teachers over the summer. We use this fund to pay for teachers, psychologists, special ed, counselors, you name it. Anything that we can use it for. When there's a hot student in the
building, that's what we use it for. Because of that, it will drop at the end of this year. The way we were able to go from 4 point 4% that was originally our um our number to 3.25 in large part was because we are spending down the
account. Again, we don't think it's smart financial planning to zero it out. We will be coming to you for a much bigger ask, but this is how we were able to come to 325. And for what it's worth, and I know we're not other towns, there are towns that carry millions of dollars in revolving accounts. we are not there
nor would we asked to be there but um so that's that's my take on it >> and I just I just want to thank the superintendent for answering this question again and again >> and again so this is at least the third time that this question's been answered in a public meeting so you know my
opinion is that it's it's been asked it's been answered and I think we should continue on with our meeting so thank you superintendent >> so I I am going to say I am the one who's been asking and I do have a
difference of opinion on that fund. That fund was set up so that we could expedite money coming from NAT directly into the into the school budget so that it wouldn't have to go through a town meeting approval
and the amount of money that was left in that account. There was never a discussion about how much money should be in that account. When that money was set up in the account, the amount that was left in was pretty minimal. Was actually zero the first year, very
minimal the next year. I think year number three it was like 164 and then jumps to 574. So with with all due respect, I just think that having a cushion account without having
a direct conversation with the taxpayers and town meeting on how accounts are going to be set up and then going to the taxpayers and saying we're going to be leaving money in a account and then we're going to be taxing the unused
levy. I I think that that's a that's a problem. So I respect what you're saying. I just have a difference opinion. >> I do think that we did all agree in the tri meeting that we had that we this policy was a def was a definite that so
I'm not sure if we committed to a time frame for that and >> I said >> did you say a time frame? >> Yeah, I said in May or June we will meet as a tri as tri committee. >> No, that's okay. Um but the tri chair just spoke about it this morning just to
really make sure we had our eyes dotted and our tees crossed which is now is not the time to talk about financial policy. We are in the middle of the budget and we need to move forward with a budget that the school can rely on, that the town can understand. And once we get
through this process, we will commit to having the conversation both about our financial policies because that's been sort of swirling around for a year now and this this policy and any other policy that the school or the town decides it doesn't have today and it should.
I think it's important to note too that this year we have put we have made much more of a collaborative effort than I have ever seen. The three boards, the school committee, the select board and the finance committee, multiple
opportunities for open meetings together to talk about this very thing and a very collaborative, transparent effort. And if I'm not mistaken, the school department has answered 11 to 12
pages of questions surrounding this account, surrounding its policies, its philosophy on budgets, and every question in between has been answered repeatedly by Cheryl Stella, by Jason
Kishman in full um public settings where people have had numerous opportunities and the finance committ has done a really great job and asked a lot of questions that really made sense and it has been the first time in a long time in many years that I've seen such a
collaborative effort and I'm disheartened that no matter what and no matter how many times we do that and we actually try to move forward collectively we still come back to this question as if the school department is trying to do something nefarious.
Okay, when it's a revolving account with a very basic concept of in andout movement of funds, right? Um, no matter what answer they give us, they still will not get any recognition or credit from members of this board. And that is
incredibly disheartening to me. It's not that we shouldn't ask questions. We should, and we have adnauseium. But yet, we still want to continue down this path. And I I just find that really unfortunate, you know. So, I thank you, Jason Kalishman. I thank you, Finance
Committee, Cheryl Stella, who repeatedly is questioned and questioned and questioned and has done nothing but answer in the most professional, appropriate ways through emails, through memos, through public questions, through private questions, 12 pages of questions
about budgets. So, I don't know what else there is to say, right? I I really don't, but I really do appreciate the effort. Can you just say where those 12 pages where you can find those 12 pages? >> You you're in receipt of them, Mary Ellen, because we've all seen them. >> I don't. >> So, for you to claim that they don't
exist or you haven't seen them, that's shocking. >> I have not seen 12 pages, but I will go back and look again. >> The finance committee has seen them because they've drafted them and they've asked them and Cheryl has responded to them, right? When they told us this publicly, we knew that
>> each and every time. >> Each and every time. But we're still going to claim they don't exist. So, >> uh, I was about to move on. >> Well, let can I I won't let you yet. >> That's fine. >> And that's because I'm going to echo that I am very proud of the collaboration that we have accomplished
this year. And I think we have really tried our best to have a fresh start with a new superintendent and a new town administrator. And um I I am proud that we have come to the table multiple times in public session and in an attempt to be very transparent and attempt to try
to get out of this cycle of us verse them, >> try to come to a place of understanding, try to be very collaborative. We we are being very respectful. I appreciate that. But >> um I I think it it's okay to have
disagreement and it's okay for you not to agree with what the four of us are saying. And that doesn't mean you stop disagreeing. But what it does mean is that eventually we have to move on. And I think that is sort of the position we're at. We will continue to be collaborative. And we don't want
disagreement to get in the way of collaboration. And we I just feel like at some point we we might go down that road again. And I don't want to go down that road again. We agreed to a fresh start and that is what we are trying to do here. So
>> now we can move on. Now I can move on. All right. So we we do have discussion and possible vote on the budget on the agenda, but the finance committee has not correct >> finished its work, right? So we weren't really expecting to literally take a final vote. >> That is literally on going to be here. >> Yep. I understand
>> from now until 10 >> for the public from my whatever. I just wanted to be clear the expectations. So we're not even really we don't have in front of us like the latest greatest you know. Well, we kind of have it in the five year. We do have yeah that that is where we are right now. I pincom I think
will have uh certainly opinions places that they would like to make sure that we consider or make changes. So we're still waiting to get there. They were also waiting for this projection so that they would have it um in fairness to them. So they've continued to meet. They've met with the schools. They've gone through the budget line by line
with Patrick and I. Uh but this was a deliverable that they were looking for from us as well. And it was my delay in getting it to them because I wanted to share it here first. I I suppose the only thing to say though is >> you said we were moving on though. >> Just kidding. Doc,
>> um where do we stand at the average tax bill impact of this? Are we in the 800? >> Do you need to pull that back up? >> Yeah. One second. I think we did share
that previously. >> Yeah. I just I >> because it's different than what it was originally. Right. >> Right. We've gone down once, but I don't I don't know if that's where we're still at or if there's been other changes or while Patrick's looking for it, Nick,
are you aware or anyone else aware of anything that the finance committee has identified or is of significantly pursuing that would alter the last thing that we saw? I do not know specifics. The last meeting that they had was last Thursday. So I was with you all. Um I
think the last discussion that I was a part of. There was a sort of broad agreement, but they didn't start that night of having a discussion among themselves about their priorities as opposed to having Patrick and I there two meetings in a row to get through the 500 lines and then to have Jason and the
team there at another meeting. So I think they're really getting into the meat of that just now. And this will help inform that discussion so they can see where the levy sort of runs out or where there's opportunities both on the revenue and expenditure side to make something work different. >> I'm sorry I didn't hear you. >> He was making a joke. It's not that
funny. >> It's $670, Doug. $670 to the >> 67 >> 670. >> Yes. 670. Sorry. >> So that is the average increase to the taxpayer >> as it stands right now. >> As it stands right now. >> Correct. And that does that include the CPA?
>> If you include the CPA, it's 680. >> 680. He said >> 680 >> CPA only. >> It's 10 bucks. >> It's 10. >> That's the change year over year. That's not >> It's already baked in. It's already baked in. It's already >> It's already baked into the 670.
>> This year we have the CPA. >> Is that clear? >> Yes. >> Okay. Thanks. Yep. Okay. Is any additional discussion or can we move on to capital? >> All right. Let's move on. >> Okay. So, if you thought the last spreadsheet
was bad to see online, you've seen nothing. Um, so let me pull this up right now. What we have is the um capital improvement committee's prioritization where they gave AB and C is
What's the problem? >> No, go ahead. >> There's some vocalization happening in the hallway. There's some vocal warm-ups. So, sorry. Yeah, >> we're a little distracted. Sounds great, though. >> There we go. >> So, it's prioritized now.
>> We we included how they had um >> there's a rank column. >> Yep. So the first column which I mean it's sort of fifth or sixth then from the right but next to FY27 to the left of FY27 >> there's a ranking
>> um they took a look at it and they talked a little bit at pincom last week if I could ask Patrick I'm sorry with your voice but if there's if you could characterize the discussion there I talked to Ryan a little bit he came to discuss CIC's uh effort to prioritize shared
that with the finance finance committee. But I think again as with this finance committee was looking to gather all the final information before they weighed in if I'm not mistaken. I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but I'm >> Yeah, you're not mistaken. So Ryan Hail attended the finance committee meeting last Thursday. uh they ran through the
capital plan with the prioritization that the capital improvement committee assigned to each project which was A, B or C which represents a must do in their opinion, a strongly recommend or a nice to nice to have could defer type
project. Um so they ran through the the list of projects with the prioritizations. Couple projects that um were topics of conversation were the renovations at 89 Burl Street. just understanding scope timing better. Um and the track
proposal. Um those ones came up and that was a lot of our conversation. So >> where are we at with that >> in looking at this? The majority of these are either an A or a C. Three of them are rated A B. I I am shocked that
>> there's only the one rated a C. >> No. Um one of them is a C. Yeah, there's only one >> and three of them are a B, but the majority are A's. So, what kind of priority how how are they determining priority?
Like what is driving the A's? So, every single thing they have here as an A set of criteria are they utilizing to grade them that way? >> So, it was a deliberation at a CIC meeting where they each were sharing opinions. I know from a very basic
standpoint, what I recall was the idea that sort of life safety was something that they would immediately put as an A. >> Yes. >> And they would interpret that and deliberate on each project individually. I I don't know that there was a >> So why isn't every project graded
something? >> Because it's in the outy years. So they only ranked fiscal year 27. >> The branding way finding in demolition of Hawthorne has no rank at all. >> Right. Because there's no money. There's no money in fiscal year 2028. Yes. >> Yeah. And why are we still carrying the
$2 million, >> right? When it's not 2 million. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> We we'll fix that. But but I it looks like from what they did, they took anything that's prioritized for 2027. Nick, you can correct me if I'm wrong. Tell me to buy it. >> And then in 2027, they prioritized only
2027. >> Okay. So I I think it would it it's a sort of a silly pursuit for them to prioritize 28 or 29 because number one some more things could come on that sort of >> affect the scale and number two if some of these things don't get done obviously
they may rep prioritize into a different year. So I think >> they >> also town meeting only votes on 27 correct >> the appendix includes the rest. So those are things that can float between years if necessary. >> Right. when we're looking at an overall
picture for five years, we're looking at all of these things, right? So, >> I understand the thought process of ranking just those in the in the current fiscal year or the next fiscal year, but the importance of the other pieces in the following subsequent years will
dictate our overall approach. >> So, I think that I think the just my opinion the ranking system should just be in in for all of them, right? we should understand where our priorities are for all, right? Maybe exclusively
for this year in terms of what we want to really accomplish, but um >> that's sorry. >> And I'm really I'm irritated that the demolition of Hawthorne is still showing 2 million when we talked about this a couple months ago and we pointed out that it wasn't right. So, I would have
at least expected that corrected by now. >> We will correct that. I apologize that's not updated. Um, I would just caution that the five-year capital plan is not everything we intend to do in five years. >> No, but we have to utilize something. >> But I'm just saying there are large
projects like the school. >> There's many things that we would put in years four and five because they need to be socialized in the community so that people understand they are out there and they are coming. even if they stay in year four or five for two, three town meetings and they're in the appendix and
aren't really they're not progressing >> because we all to your point exactly. People need to recognize that if we're talking about a hund00 million project, >> right, >> that it exists whether or not we know the year it's coming. We have to that to for all the same reasons that you all wanted to make sure we put a projection
together that was reasonably targeted and went out at least five years. when you get when you're talking about a capital plan, years four and five are really about socializing big projects. >> Three is almost aspirational. One is real and two is a little more real, but still not
set in stone. So, I just want to make sure that we're looking at it. So, I don't know that prioritizing something that's in year five makes a ton of sense because we're trying to give information to you all and to the meeting members >> about a vote that's coming up in May. I apologize. Go ahead.
>> Sure. I mean in the Burl Street 89 Burl Street just has a question mark for rank. So I don't know what that means. >> It says needs more information to classify. So there must be outstanding questions there that CIC did not have at the time of ranking in order to to clearly ascertain where it should fall.
Uh and it's likely questions related to the timing of >> uh veterans crossings and therefore determining if that money has to be spent in 27 or if that money could be pushed to 28 based on this cycle. largely influenced by that and also the fact that you know Max Marzy and others
at town hall have been trying to run down information so that we can put together a plan and with that plan a cost for what that buildout should look like for the users and so since I started we've met with them a few times and in the last four weeks five weeks
we've probably made more progress in in that we got a group of them together the leadership of the different groups to to be in the room and say you know this is these are the types of uses and needs we think we'll have here and we still need to get more information from them to be able to move I think it was last year's
amended capital spending that that has design money waiting for us so that we can move to design and get a real cost and understand if I think it's 600 in here is accurate and also to Katie's point which fiscal year it needs to be spent in >> okay well I appreciate the efforts to move that forward
>> sure right and and also I just think it's I just think it's important to note that while this is going to be $600,000 potentially in in in 27, there's also a source of funds for this. So once the project >> once the project's completed and there
and and beneath is in receipt of a co there's a rent payment in the to the tune of about $1.6 million that's coming into the town. So, I just think that it's it's important that we're that that we as a board made a decision to
relocate the VFW to the to 89 Burough Street with the explicit promise that that building was going to be that we were going to take those funds and make it and and improve that building. That's what we did. >> Yep. >> Um Absolutely. So, I just want to make
sure that that you know because that's that's going to that's going to outlive the next few weeks. it's going to outlive the next uh few months and and and probably the next few years. So I I just I just want to reflect that to the public that we you know we did made a promise, we made a commitment and we
also have a source of uh of funds. So any investment would be uh temporary until those and you know it's really just a cash flow >> which is something we have to talk about on the warrant because we there's a fund that we're supposed to be creating for that. But anyway, we'll come back to that. Marcy is also applying for she's
looking to be to apply for funding for >> grant opportunities. >> Grant opportunities. Well, there's special funding for, you know, re furbishing buildings to be more handicap accessible. She feels pretty confident we're going to be able to get money for that.
>> So, can I go a little macro and work backward just for a second? So, the seven million basically is what we have lined up for this year, right? >> Yep. Um, and that's that's a normal debt load we take on each year. >> Yeah, that's comparable to what we've
been doing. Yes. >> Um, am >> I missing the track? >> Oh, it's on the first page. >> On the first page. >> It's the only thing that's ranked C, which is a nice to have to defer. >> All right. >> No, there's a couple. >> We'll get your track, Marielle, in just a second. >> Sorry, we're gonna stay on track with
Doug. >> Sorry about this. >> Um, a little bit to Danielle's point. I feel like we've got we've got an option here, right? We have now two other committees that and according to public reports, I
wasn't there for the meeting, there was a robust discussion between the finance committee and the chair of the capital improvement committee about this and I think the finance committee had some pointed questions about some of these things. Um and I expect that there will
be more discussion on this amongst the finance committee tomorrow night. Did you say that meeting? >> Yes, tomorrow night. >> Um so, you know, we can sit here and kind of go through each one of these if we want. um
or you know is there anything Patrick or Nick that you know of from those discussions or if anyone else was at that meeting that is a major question mark. Um, I mean, I I have a little bit
of a just a confusion about the paving, uh, because my last understanding was that actually there was money left over from last year to do most or all of Atlantic Avenue, which is what's kind of pointed out here. Um, so I'm not really
sure what happened to that, uh, or if that didn't turn out to be true or what, but that's a question I have. >> I don't have the answer. I'd have to ask Gino if it's something that >> happened last year. >> Patrick has the answer. >> I can Well, I can just jump in. From my
memory, last town meeting, we did not authorize the normal level of funding for paving because we had a backlog of projects and authorizations that would fund those projects. Yeah. So this is more in line with our normal kind of cadence of paving funding this year and
go paves based on the pavement management plan the analysis that I think beta group did >> several years ago to assess the condition of the road. So he's going off that off that list in terms of how projects are prioritized and also looking at when utility work is going to be finished because you don't want to
pave a road and then rip it all back up again >> to do utilities. So >> that all generally sounds good. If if it didn't say Atlantic Avenue in here, I wouldn't have a question. But I had a specific conversation with him that led me to believe that that was actually
already >> I had a specific conversation with him, too. And this is the data I got from him. So I can go back and just get >> maybe things evolved >> clarification. >> All right. And then >> Sorry. Go ahead, Doug. Finish your >> uh No, I've I'll read.
>> Okay. I guess uh for me I just want to make sure if we could help clarify any of these question marks in this conversation. I think we just gave a little bit more. I don't think we have clarity on the timing of the veterans contribution. We have a cl I think to
David's point this is a um >> cash flow >> cash flow problem. Thank you. Um that this is money we're going to put up front and then get back. This is an investment we all agree to make in our veterans. Um, and
we need to get all the parties to the table a little bit faster, maybe. I don't know. I'm not, this is not a criticism to you, but this is just in general so that we could make sure that we're going to be in align with timing because if we get down to the end of things and the timing is off, uh, it
won't be the veteran's fault, it will be our fault. And we just really need to try to make case so that they understand the timing. So, if we are deferred in any way, they understand the consequences of that deferment. >> Um, which could be them without a home for a period of time, if we can't all get to the table, make decisions, have a
feasibility study done, understand the cost, get it approved by town meeting, and get things rolling. >> I think to that point, it's reasonable, you know, whatever the number is here that we have a number in here because I think we're going to have to spend before we get the money, >> right? Yeah. Because they're going to be get moved out. >> Correct. CO before
>> I think everyone would benefit from us underlining that it's money that will be for all intents and purposes reimbured. >> Yes. >> At the point of the CO so that it's not borrowing over the longer term. It's borrowing to make sure we can make it happen. >> And won't we have 300,000 available to us out of the affordable housing trust
that's already been allocated >> to this project. >> I think there has to be clarity on how we can spend that $300,000. >> Not on this project. That has to go to the housing. >> That's what I can't go to. >> It's not going to on Burl Street. >> It's not going to bay directly, but it
will. It is. >> Yes, >> it's in the housing part. >> It's in the housing part and not in the reallocation or improvement of a building which is used for rehousing. >> So, couldn't we could >> That's right. >> at town meeting get funding out of our
capital stabilization. This is just a thought. We could get we could do a cash just a cash flow issue taking something out of capital stabilization depending on where it leaves us within our percentages and then reimburse capital stabilization
when we get income coming in that wouldn't affect anything tax- wise or debtwise. >> Yeah. Right. Because this I mean this is just a plan, right? That's different than ultimately
I don't know technicality. >> I'm just saying if we have to if if we have to have a vote if if if we need to do something at at town meeting to just have a vote to allow us to use those fundings that by using that funding it wouldn't it wouldn't affect anything on
the debt service. It wouldn't slow anything up. All you're doing is you're just relieving you're just helping your cash flow. just taking a little >> Could we take the next week to look into that and actually talk to you about it next week in more detail? That way it's
a little less >> hypothetical and we can see what hurdles there might be other than drafting. >> I understand that. >> Yes, I would. >> Does that work? >> Yeah, definitely works for me. It's just it's an idea to look at that. I think that might work, but I'm a little concerned about the track.
>> I mean, they're ranking it as number as C. What what are they thinking we're going to do here? If we have a track right now, >> is there a possibility we can use CPA funds? Because a track is a recreational.
>> We have spent CPA funds more times >> as a sol. I mean, this might be a great idea, but I am ju I just want to caution everybody. It's first of all, the CPA Doug, maybe you were going to say this, so >> in the short run, the answer is no. Uh you can't really spend much of anything
in the short run. Um, it's not really until like next year's town meeting. Correct me if I'm wrong, Patrick. >> Next year's town meeting. That's town meeting. >> It would really be spending. There's going to be some things we'll talk about here. There's be allocations set aside, whatever. I've been frustrated about
this, but the CPA masters say this is the way it has to be. Um, maybe maybe you could do something in December. I I I don't know. But right now, no. >> Um, >> also we don't control the CPA funding. There's there's a committee created
And they are they basically have their their own budget that they receive applications for projects both from the town, >> from nonprofits, from whoever wants to make an improvement on the housing, >> historic preservation and recreation. >> They make all of those decisions and the
sort of end of the input from this board was the approval of the board itself. >> Right. >> That's it. That's where it ends. >> And our nominee, >> well, we could put in an application. >> Correct. We can put in applications. We can well I it still brings me back to >> the there's a really important fact I think factoid that I'd love to confirm.
Somewhere it floated that there was significant revenue offset on the track. >> What >> am I just like >> hallucinating about this? >> None. >> There's no there's no
>> Well, so what what is the plan then for this track? I mean, if if CIC is saying it's a C, I don't know how it's a C. >> The plan is to let it to let it continue to deteriorate into the state of disrepair that we've let three
elementary schools continue to deteriorate and why they got to the point they got to because we insist on kicking the can down the road, down the road, down the road as if it's not important because, you know, it's used solely for one or two track meets. as if the people in this town that just want
to walk around it don't use it. Of course they do. And we we actually had people come and speak about this at a meeting and we all actually sat here and said, >> you know, we really wanted CIC to to look closely at it and they turn around and they give one of what two C's on
this whole list of things and one of them is to that track. >> Patrick, did they give any reasons for it? Was there >> Yeah. So for the projects that are rated C, they The main thing they considered was how much of the population might be served by the asset. >> Um, so
>> which is insanity to me because if no offense to school department, if I take a look and see the staff device refresh, who does that serve for $100,000 that serves just your staff at the school, right? So you want to talk about how limited that is compared to a track that
the entire public can use as well as kids that pay fees to actually participate in sports here. Y >> right. So where where where does that how does that make sense? It doesn't to me but >> so so let me let me further discuss that. So just to jump on your piggyback
on your point Danielle um the sewer main rehabil rehabilitation right here $3.5 million uh in this in this upcoming fiscal year. We've already spent eight figures, >> right? I don't >> that's sewer enterprise.
>> Oh no, understood. I I understand that. That's a whole different >> low interest loan interest, >> but it hasn't been not not all the time. Not every time. >> It's not >> It will be this time though. >> Okay. But I'm saying But I'm saying previously it's still it's this it's the
same it's a it's a different pocket from the same pair of pants. We're all We're all paying for it. My point is we've spent we've spent eight figures and there was an email that was sent out uh by a fincom the vice chair of the of the
finance committee Eric Schneider uh just looking to the point where the town has spent over $3 million fixing over 500 private sewer laterals in town. So, we have 15,000 residents and we have 500 people, 3% approximately that benefited
from the private sewer laterals being uh being addressed. I mean, that's, you know, to me it looks like if, you know, if there's $3 million there, I mean, we could have spent another million dollars on a track. We could have we could have spent uh money doing uh doing other things. We could have spent money fixing
our pipes. >> And it's my understanding, Mr. county administrator that we continue to spend public dollars on private laterals. >> Yep. And as the details that I've been able to get and it's been spotty as you
are aware, the the work for IDE has talked about making those improvements going back to 2017. >> In public meetings, it's been discussed that that was part of the effort that would be done because it was a part of the IDE work. It is not something that
only occurred in the last near-term. It's been, you know, appropriated as a capital project multiple times. DPW director and others have spoken to it publicly a number of times, but it's absolutely something that it would be great to look for opportunities with
something like a betterment assessment if we're doing prospectively in the future to make sure that we are capturing those costs as the improvements are made. I I think as a taxpayer, as a rateayer, I think we should try to see if there's anything that we can do to recoup uh all or a
portion of those funds uh for the rateayers and taxpayers of the town of Swampskit. I think it's important that we, you know, we we brought in the town, we brought in the superintendent uh and uh the the administrator, you know, the
uh the finance the the finance uh person, Cheryl Heric, Stella, um you know, and had them answer a litany of questions, had two separate meetings for, you know, a uh for anou around a utility.
>> $200,000. This is $3 million. Um, that's been ongoing. Uh, and we just have spotty information. I don't believe this was ever this was ever approved or authorized by the select board or by town meeting. And this is a this is an
enormous amount of money. And this is a problem that continues to be ongoing where we're spending public dollars fixing private sewer laterals. I I I I understand that we're we're trying to fix a problem here, but there has to be something that's done. There has to be
some accountability. So, at our next meeting, I would like to have a conversation to figure out what happened, what continues to happen, and how we can address this moving forward because I I don't want to see our our funds being spent um addressing
something that is the the the really the responsibility of each individual homeowner in town. We're setting a dangerous precedent. We've we've already paid for 500 We've already paid for 500 private sewer laterals. What What about you know what happens with the other 14,500 residents
of town? >> Well, I would >> Well, we have a proposed by the Warren. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> I mean, I would say for >> Does that >> There there's there's the history and then there's the future, right? So, we we had a we had a lateral bylaw come before us last year, which for whatever
reason >> for sort of a bunch of errors ended up not being on the warrant last year. It was rescended from the warrant. It is going on the warrant now. It will be when we open the warrant, you'll see it has already been vetted by council. It's
been vetted by the water sewer infrastructure committee and >> it's with council after water sewer infrastructure forwarded it. >> Yes. Um and it is something that at the time last year we all supported to go forward with but for the re for reasons
related to council and >> some typographical errors and how it was distributed it was chosen to be take off the warrant. That's this is how we're fixing it in the future. I mean I agree with you that it would have been it would have been great if there was a
more clear written policy. Okay. This is a sort of a Achilles heel if you will for what we've been going through. And part of growing in this process is figuring out where the policies are lacking and putting proper standard operating procedures in place so that we
are not coming to these conversations continually and that we are limiting these conversations going forward. And I don't disagree like I don't I don't know legally if you can recoup those dollars. We'd we'd have to reach out to council and see what can be
done. But to your point, I I don't agree that the DPW director went forth or anybody went forth without clear authorization to spend the money as it was related to IDE work. It was disclosed that we were
doing it in public meetings since 2017. you said that we were doing it and when we voted on it whether it was us or our predecessors there was a awareness that it was done within that work that Gino was putting forward as IDE work. >> I mean >> I think I was aware there was $3 million
actually. So tribute to Eric Schneider if that's really what the total is for it. So it's a great great point >> and I think that circles back I think your o overall point was that we could spend that for something like we could spend that much for how many was it? 500
500. >> I think we probably have 500 people that use the track really where the start, right? >> Yes. Bring it back. >> Can we just like go to the Is it okay if we get >> Yeah. >> get back on track? >> Um so I think I think the sentiment I'm
hearing is that we we disagree with the ranking being a C. >> Yeah. >> Yes, we do. >> The the sense of the board, I don't know if it's a unanimous sense, but the sense of the board is that this is this is a high priority. Maybe it doesn't qualify as a mustd do under the criteria of the
capital improvement committee, but um there's a sense here that that should be a much higher priority. >> And and I have one question for the superintendent who is here. What is your athletic fee? >> 450. >> 450. And how many children run outdoor track? Do you have any idea?
>> I someone quoted it at the last meeting on how much revenue is actually brought into the school department by people that run on this track. And I think that's an important distinction that we have parents paying $450 per runner that participate in track and cannot actually
run because we are choosing to grade this as a C. >> Kids can get hurt >> in addition to the fact that it's a liability. >> At middle school, I think it's 100. >> I knew the middle school was over 100. I'm not sure. >> Okay. I'm just wondering what the what
the plan I'm just wondering, you know, what's what the plan is for CIC because this these are people that do think things through. >> Oh, it's the same. >> The fee is not Sorry, Marilyn. The same. >> No, the fee isn't the same at the middle school and high school. The high school fee is 450. Middle school fee is 275, I
believe. >> That just shows that David didn't pay >> 275. No, I did just pay. It went It went up. >> I will say just for the record, they're all going up all over the place. athletic fees. I mean, Beverly hockey is going to be $1,000 next year. This is >> right. >> But to to my point of this is what
people are paying to use this track that people that we're saying not enough people run on to replace. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. >> This is where I this is where I was referencing my number earlier. I I think there was a number floated something like there's $75,000 or something that comes in in fees that somehow are
associated with this track. >> So, um, >> Mr. Kala, the runner. >> Yes. Mrs. Kala who even spoke Yes. with that figure >> was here. >> Marielen, you were saying I'm apologies for the interruption. >> I just I I just usually they have a you know there's a thought process but
there's nothing here. It just says the million dollars to see it doesn't put it anywhere else. I just think that >> all inclusive >> we just need to get more information on what they're thinking about. I mean I don't know. Are they thinking about that it's not going to be a million dollars that that maybe
>> um it can be a repair? I >> no we we talked about that last >> confirmed it not be a repair. >> Yes, they don't make the >> we spoke to that at the >> at the meeting with the CIC as well that repair was not an option. >> All right, >> at this point. >> All right. So, I think if we could just
find that out and I'm just going to say, you know, one concern that I have is I still see vehicles coming up here and nothing personal, Max, but I don't I don't understand why the facility director needs a car. Um,
we're a town of three less than three miles and you know there's we could pay a subsidy. I think it's 51 cents a mile. >> I think it's 70 75 >> 75. Oh, really? >> 75. >> It could cost us a dollar a day if Max
has to leave, you know, his office and go to another building. I just think we need to think about these things. Then you have a you have a vehicle. You have a vehicle for the fire chief. You know, I know the fire chief's
vehicle actually only has 72,000 miles on it according to what you told me, Nick. Um why we need to spend close to another $100,000 on that. These are these are things that I think that we have other we have really tough priorities and things that
we need and I don't think these are these are priorities. I I will just say that the reason those came in and I'm not judging the quality of whether they should stay um is that we've generally downcycled vehicles for other use and I know like Max and Gino are both at the
as I understand at the tail end definitely Goss I'm not even sure what you're driving of a vehicle that's gone through one or two other departments already and it cannot it like doesn't really run well anymore and it's at the point that we're now spending more money to maintain in the case of the fire
department the deputy chief um and fire prevention, that vehicle is falling apart. And so this is something where they would be down cycling. And I real I we've had discussions in the past. I just want to highlight we're not junking a vehicle that's still running with 72,000 mi. We're junking the vehicle the
vehicle that's 20 years old and is no longer uh you know something that we can maintain, >> right? But I'm also saying like do we really need all these vehicles? I mean, I think that in the past we needed these vehicles, but I think that at some point we got to say, you know what, do we really need these vehicles
on, you know, in a 7-day work week >> is the or or why doesn't it fall into the nice to have category, >> right? >> Do you know what I'm saying? Like what is a sense ranking system if we're ranking everything a mustdo? Like that that doesn't not when we're in the situation we're in. That that doesn't I
feel like the capital improvement committee is not hearing us. I I feel like they're not understanding the severity of what we're doing. Town, school, every other department trying to figure this out. Like I I I feel like we keep saying the same things over and
over about this plan and no one is listening. And that is it's really frustrating me. I mean another another question I have is on all the student device refresh at has there been consideration on people buying their own devices
>> other than people that can't afford >> well it's anity >> it becomes an equity issue it really does and it becomes an issue as far as like oh I was thinking you were saying bring your own devices sorry that becomes a issue as far as like if kids bring their own devices then we can't help troubleshoot the issues that they
have and we can't keep them off certain websites >> and regulate >> say it that way. And as far as the device paying for it, it becomes an equity issue. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, just like when you go to school and there's textbooks, you know what textbook you have to buy, you can't
say when you start in the whatever grade it is, this is the this is the device you need to have. Just like the calculators, you know, do you have calculators you have to buy coming into the school? >> Yeah, I mean, we've certainly discussed it. I think that there was a lot of
debate over the years about this and um we're really thankful that the devices have been provided um that they've been put on capital and approved before and we're obviously hoping that's the case um because of the equity issue. That's the best I can say. Miss Mackie Nolles isn't here right now so she could
probably speak to the specifics of why it's important as far as the devices go um a little better than I could but >> require someone to have a $500 laptop and I can't buy my kid a different laptop. What do I do? >> No, I I think >> you understand the equity piece. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> No, but I I I think that you know there I think that that that population should be subsidized, but I think there's also a very large population that >> could pay >> could pick up. >> So, can we go back to the vehicles for a second?
Um, I want to push it, Nick, a little bit. Maybe it's just to make sure you're definitive. In your estimation, both the facilities director and DPW
electric vehicles are mustd do this year. I did not rank order them into mustd do and not. I included them in the plan. I know I know you didn't I know you didn't put the A. So now I'm asking you >> I I included it in the plan as something
that we would like to do this year. This is a proposal. It is not the end all be all. This is a recommendation that was made but I'm more than happy to take feedback from you fin. >> We don't have the I I'm asking you I'm sincerely asking I'm not saying I have an opinion because I really don't know.
I haven't inspected the car or whatever. >> Uh with Max sitting here so I'm trying to pretend Max isn't close. Um, but I I just want to be just get to, you know, I don't want us to just keep floating ideas and like not really clear what the end result is.
>> So, I I also did not inspect the vehicle myself, but I rely on the department heads when they put in a request like that that it is something that is, you know, of need this year. Both of these things have been on the plan for multiple years as well. >> This is not the first year.
>> Okay. I think the overall the overall question is do we really need this vehicle? That's I think that's you know finally going back and thinking about things because it's just I think it's the same thing that we do constantly. Is this something that we really need?
>> Well, can we can we simply >> take a look at Max's vehicle, see how many miles on it, and multiply it by.7 cents and determine whether this is a good investment or not? Because if we're if we aren't paying him for that, if the mileage is on the vehicle, that's money we didn't we saved not paying Max to use
his own vehicle. So, I mean, wouldn't that tell us if this is a good for the next 10 years? >> Yeah, I'm not I'm I'm talking I'm actually talking in general terms as far as really looking and really identifying, do we actually need these? Do we actually need >> I know, but I'm saying the only way we
can determine need is based on usage. So I would think we would look at the usage and determine is does the usage justify the need. So that's based on mileage. That's what a vehicle does. So look at the mileage and see how much mileage has been used. And we'll determine how he's
had that he or another department head has had that vehicle for x number of years. It's gone x number of miles. So the investment is either a new vehicle or this number of miles times whatever the return is. I would I would also just in the case of specifically DPW and facilities, a personal vehicle might not
be appropriate for them to be using, transporting, doing whatever it is that they may be using the vehicle for. I so right because the other >> facilities director that has a generator in his trunk when it's his personal vehicle is something completely different than
>> right >> using a new or downcycled vehicle that is townowned and you know it's not wear and tear that I think is reasonable in in these two cases >> um because they do you know if I was saying every department head should have one that's a completely different
argument right >> you know in a town hall there are the two pool vehicles that >> there's There's actually probably demand if we were to get everyone using it outside of um the building commissioner. There would probably be demand for a third and that's something that we can
certainly look on over time to say a future. But in these cases specifically like their uses is they would have things in their vehicle that a a person may not want in their their personal vehicle to be completely honest. Whereas health myself, like we can jump in one
of these poolled vehicles that are at town hall if we needed to. >> Wait, health health has a vehicle. >> No, no, no. They he uses us. >> He uses a pool vehicle. The fleet pool, whatever you want to call it. >> You almost lost me there. >> Daniel, I could feel you. >> I feel like I'm back in the cell phone
debate from last year. Everybody's got a cell phone. >> So, it's for inspection. I'm I'm just saying like building uses it almost all the time and I know that there's some demand from others. So, >> and these cases are separate and apart than a building commissioner going to do his or something like. >> So, here's what I'd ask you to be very specific. >> Yeah.
>> I'd ask you to just go back around one more time over the next week and come back with a clear obvious ideally like two bullet point. This is why we must buy these two vehicles this year because they must have a town vehicle that transports X,
Y, and Z. And it therefore it has to be a $50,000 electric vehicle, not a $25,000 electric vehicle. Um, and it's most cost effective to do that. Just so we're I will Thank you. >> And please utilize the need to have,
want, or must have, right? With that thought process in mind, >> because that I I don't think people are understanding the severity of what is want versus need, right? And we >> and I I love leaving it to department heads to decide, but I'm tasking you.
>> I hear you. Well, I think the just to be clear, the ranking was done by CIC, right? Correct. Everyone understands that. I think I think both of you are asking for something different. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> District security improvements.
>> Can't ask about that. Which is I can't ask. >> Super secret security. >> Okay. Um, so I guess I I'll I'll direct the same type of question to you. So schools, right? District security
>> improvements. Where's that? >> Where's that? >> Uh, just going down that same page. >> Facilities. >> Page two, >> facilities. School buildings. >> That's facilities. >> Oh, school buildings there. >> You know, as as succinctly as as you wish. Um,
you know, I know this is CIC's. I imagine it comes from you all in terms of the musto, but can you give us an example of why it's a musto this year? >> Sure. Um, >> so the the the district security
upgrades is um a number of like security projects. Most of them are at the high school. I think the best example um >> is the duress buttons. So the duress buttons um the elementary school and the middle school have a a duress button
system that would be that is pushed at certain locations in the building to alert uh authorities as directly and quickly as possible in the case of a uh a likely shooting event at at a school.
Um there's not that type of system here at the high school. So, one of the projects that is part of this is to uh install duress buttons at the high school so that they we also have uh those buttons in place at the high school.
>> That's an A+ to be honest. Like I mean I I I we did you were joking before. I >> I wasn't joking. I was being facitious because I really didn't want to go down this road but >> Oh, you knew what it was. Well, it says really it says SHS dures EESPA and SHS intrusion alarm security system and it's
a similar project to what we did at the middle school, right? Like well we did we made certain upgrades at the middle school to allow for us to be able to do this going forward, right? >> Yeah. Well, like the duress button, for example, we were able to do at the middle school um because it it actually
integrates with the fire alarm system. Okay. And actually communicates out with the fire alarm system. Um, and then at the elementary school it's even it's even more intensely integrated across systems. So >> I think I stepped in it one year and asked this question and come to find out
I mean I just feel like >> this this is not just this obviously does not just protect our students, it obviously also protects our staff and is a paramount of importance. So >> and what about the envelope improvements at the high school? >> Envelope improvements at the high
school. >> Yeah. Um that is so the envelope you know generally roof facade uh windows that specific project is mostly targeting uh there's a it's called an ephus system. You actually can't see it
uh in most of the places that you look at the the building. It kind of looks like a stucco. Uh it's in it's in a number of the areas on the building that um are like up on the roof, but like um vertical sections, you know, some large
sections that that we've had inspected and we have some failures and we have a project to uh to do a significant repair so we don't have intrusion over time. >> Uh there's a couple other like smaller projects that we're considering with the envelope. Uh but that's the biggest one and I think the best example.
>> Thank you. While we're on it, high school flooring. Flooring looks great out there. But 250K more for what? >> Yep. The high school flooring project. So, at this point, we've done the lobby. We did the hall heading out there. We did the hall that leads to this room.
Um, the project as proposed is to do the rest of the vinyl sheet flooring in the building replaced with LVT. LVT is the product that we have in the lobby and here here. Um there's a number of areas
of the building like the halls on the second and third floor, the floor right in front of you. Uh that's a VCT that is in uh very good shape. It's waxed over over the years. The sheet product has failures at a lot of the seams. Uh you would have noticed it in the atrium over
time that you know that we repaired. Cafeteria has a lot of seam issues. We've done a lot of patching. Um so you know this is a pretty firm number. We have a we have quotes. Uh it's just to replace the rest of the uh vinyl sheet material with LVT in those very specific
locations. >> And it can't wait. It's not something that we can put off two years, three years. >> It's actually a B. This is one that is a B. >> That's a B. Okay. >> Yeah. I I couldn't sit here and tell you it couldn't wait. I mean, it's a good project. We're ready to do it. But >> y, >> you know, it's as guarantee as some of
the others. >> If you don't do these things, then people tell you that you don't maintain your >> Well, right. >> So, but if you do do these things, >> spending too much money. you're spending too much money, right? So, it's like a catch 22 really. >> Thank you, M.
>> Yeah, but I think just to Doug's point, we we asked the town administrator to go through and ensure that all of these based on this I think based on the CIC rankings are appropriate based on our understanding of them. So we would ask um the superintendent and the facilities
director to do the same and just ensure based on the se well I'll call it the severity of the situation that we are really ensuring that what we are putting forth to capital is really as vetted as the nant revolving account.
How about that? And what is the possibility of getting someone like a local um a a local business or someone who's
graduated from the schools to pick up pick up the fee on the track or I don't know about renaming the track but I mean have we looked at that? >> I would like to have that conversation.
I'm waiting to connect with at least one potential outlet to help defay the cost. If you have any other individuals or >> are you Mary Ellen? >> Not today. >> You want it to be the Marielle and Fletcher track? >> If there's anyone you'd like us to reach
out to, I think both Jason and I would be happy to figure out the >> Katie Failen track. >> Don't look at me. I got to put my kids through college. >> Yeah. I >> mean, I don't know that. Do we have to do we have to consider the the naming like naming rights and things like that? I mean, We do have a right.
>> We we would I mean that's remember we talked about the signage even in the fall we were looking at and >> but um one of the things we did do is that we looked at New Balance on there. We sort of filled out a little >> blur on New Balance because I know they did some work in Gloucester. >> Um
and then I talked to somebody at Puma. >> I I I just kind of went down the circuit there. Um unfortunately >> it's competitive. >> Well, it's not even that. It's like towns like Swampscott. they're not feeling so sorry for us that they're gonna >> no >> fund a new track, but I think it's worth looking into other ones. And that was
just me going online and filling out a little form. It's not like I >> called their offices or anything. So I I think that and then Max had another thing that happened. >> Yeah, we did also apply for a um a grant through Institution for Savings. It's one of the banks in Ven Square that just
has a program where they fund projects like this. They've done it in some other communities um but we didn't get it. I would also say to Marielen, to your point, um, one of the things that I want to continue to do is like sort of lean on alumni, get that alumni network
going. We're just not quite there yet. >> What about aggregate >> amrise? >> Yes, it's the third name since I've been here, but yeah, I'm waiting for my tour because it was postponed in the fall. >> Get there, Connors. Get there. Come on.
>> Okay. It's It's not for lack of trying. It was for lack of planned. They they want me up there on a day that they're actually doing blasting so I can see what the impacts are like. Um and I I had one planned for late fall and it fell through. So I am looking to get back up there.
>> Attorney Drewus and Garrett both know that I am looking forward to it, but we just need to get a date. >> And I think the other thing is this. I mean it's as Nick is or Jason is going out and asking people to support some of these capital improvements. I think we have to show that we're willing to put
our money down first sometimes before people like these aren't nice to haves. They're needs to haves and if you don't help us, we're going to figure out a way to do it. But like incentivizing that through the process that we've already vetted that it's an important project for us to understand the impact.
something like the track which you know while only recently came a part of the budget has been a pivotal part of these conversations that we've had citizens show up and have concerns over it that we've been advocates for it um
would show that you know if somebody is listening or we know somebody and they want to make a contribution this is a significant way to do it. Yeah, I was just going to say we did some digging on this recently actually as far as um naming rights and the costs and I don't know why I'm leaning over and not and um
a lot of some school districts had sort of like a $100,000 donation gets you this named thing, but in this case that doesn't get you there. No, we wouldn't. We So somebody's getting the track named after him. We can't even afford it still. So we'd need to really up it to
>> a million dollars. I I think it might be useful for Jason and I to talk about it. The other option would be you pay a percentage of the total cost >> and we are open to naming it. >> It will not be a corporation. It will not be, you know, like we have to set the guidelines so that we're not we
don't get a cannabis name >> New Balance Track, >> right? Or >> New Balance Track I think actually isn't >> isn't as bad as the cannabis track. >> But I mean in New Balance's case, I think it's almost always New Balance Foundation that's making it. So you're you're referencing a nonprofit that just
happens to have the name of the business in it, >> right? >> Um but I think maybe we could come back after town meeting to be honest so that we have some time to look and to see what works in other communities and even if it's something that would require multiple sort of higher level donations. How can we recognize
>> right >> whether it's something standard like even the granite market that we have for the beaches that you will put your name in it for 10 years or 20. This is the same thing that I talked about with the benches. >> Yes. >> It cannot be forever. it is for a capital need now. We want to figure out how to recognize you that's reasonable,
but we also >> need to come back to you again or find someone else in 15 years, you know, or 10 years. So, >> y >> if we could plan for June, if that works for folks while we continue to look for opportunities to help fund this particular capital need, >> um I feel like that might be >> to get us $30,000 for it.
>> What' you say? >> The Armenian did she get us $30,000 for it or something? >> Wasn't that what she >> 35,000? So it's only 9. >> Oh, so we don't need a million. >> 960 for now. >> We can fill a little thermometer and we're parts.
>> Take the cans out of the mall. >> All right. Um, if we've run down enough of the donor list, we can move on to the town administrator sixmonth evaluation. >> You all have a So this just to wrap this
is same same category. We're waiting for FinCom to do their final and then next next week. >> Yep. And now we've asked >> Yeah. >> a couple people in this room to do the same and so we'll talk about it again next week. >> And just where Fincom is, they didn't have the opportunity to have Ryan with them until last Thursday. So this week will be one of the times that they're
talking in more detail about capital outside of that. Give give us your feedback. Let us understand how you prioritize. So >> just wanted to level set for you all. The administrator review is part of the contract in the Troder that after six months I get a review so I can get
feedback, improve better, not perfect. Um, this is a a form that's been used by a few other towns with uh TAS that I know obviously open to changes. Are you all providing feedback uh however you would like? Do you want me to walk through
how? So, um, so I've actually already we I looked at the form. We're gonna use this form for this year. If you have feedback about the form, >> why are we using this form? >> Why not? >> Not well, we've had a form for years. Why aren't we just using the form that we've used before?
>> Because we have a new TA and we discussed using a new form and so I picked a new form. >> Um, the only reason, well, a couple things. One is we didn't discuss it, but >> No, I said I discussed we just the town administrator and I discussed it. >> Oh, um >> this is our discussion.
>> Okay. So, couple things. one is uh you know there's only three we've had a we've had a form before which I thought was you know worked pretty well and then on this there's only three categories and I just thought the other form gave more >> you mean three categories
>> you know more feedback or a little bit more leverage >> to you know you might not want you might not want to say improvement needed uh or maybe it's a smaller amount improvement needed versus satisfactory so That's that's that's
just my opinion on that one. And the other thing here is it says here shall not be publicly released. Um I I know we've got we've talked about this before and I just I my understanding from KP law is that these are public documents
and they are to all be released. So, >> so what is a public document is the >> culmination or summary of Nick's um evaluation. What is what our stance and we have
reviewed this with KP law it's actually in Nick's contract is that we will not make the individual evaluations public and if somebody wanted to have a foyer request and then take it up to what do they call it the administrator of records or however >> supervisor
>> super supervisor of records then we'll cross that bridge when we get there but very similar to other towns we are going to make the summary public and not the individual evaluations I yeah I I think all of this is correct. Like I think
>> I mean >> I concur. >> I concur. >> Um but I was concurring with both of you. Um because I think my recollection is that at the end of the day we did feel as though I thought
we got some of this in perspective from KB law that at the end of the day we might might not be defensible to keep this even the individual ones >> right >> but our but our policy >> but our policy and our stance is such yes
>> so our policy and our stance is not to release it but if somebody wants to file it for and then go to the go to the state records. That's that's the the avenue that they have to go and our chances of being able
to defend that are pretty much slim. >> I don't know. >> However, however, we we can protect the privacy of of our of our town employees >> and as much as possible as much. >> I think there's a difference. I think there's a difference in town employees
versus the town administrator. My understanding is in in the in these types of rulings >> and and this is this is this is where this is where town council talks out of both sides of their mouth. So town
council will say one thing and then you ask them and you squeeze in another direction and they say something completely different. So I would think uh we should heir on the side of caution. We should protect the we should protect some of the privacy and as Katie
stated um we can we can certainly release the consolidated uh review and that's that's the public document. That's been that's been that's been the practice that we've had for as long as I've been on the board. We can air on the side of contractual obligation until we are told otherwise
because our contractual obligation to Nick is that we will not release these for the time being and if we are put forth with a decision to do so then we will inform the town administrator of that obligation. >> Okay. When are we getting these back by?
>> So um if you could all get them back to me by >> Wow. Look at that. >> By the um end of not this coming Friday, but the following Friday, what does that make it over two a little over a week and a
half? If any more time we can discuss, but >> that's the 17th. >> The 17th. Thank you. Um >> or you would just need it by before the election. >> Some of us certainly would. >> H >> some of us certainly would. >> Yeah. >> I think you allow time for a summary to
be prepared. >> Yeah. And if I have any additional questions, I don't I don't want to have to call Doug on his off time. I'll call him at when he's >> You said call him anytime. >> Call him on his birthday. >> Um, so can I just ask this is our evaluation, right? We own this or did we
get it from somewhere else from another town or is this one >> I asked around and it's a it's something that I found >> in my conversations with other TAs that have been used in a couple towns. >> Okay, great.
All right. Um, that is the town administrator's six-month evaluation. Now, discussion and possible vote to open the annual town meeting warrant May 18th, 2026, including review, discussion, and votes on articles for inclusion in the warrant. This sounds very impressive,
but >> so, >> can I just share where we are? Please share where we are cuz I >> we had we in the packet had presented sort of the anticipated articles. We since then have provided this printout
which does not have sewer lateral. It will I'm just letting everyone know that it's not in there. And the other topic that I just wanted to discuss with you all as a board and I had had a brief discussion with the incoming moderator and I plan to talk to the current moderator uh at some point next week as
well. Now that we have two annual town meetings and we're not chasing a date to be scheduled in the fall, >> there may be some utility to saying we're going to do zoning in the fall and budget in the spring for not that it will always be like set in stone, but the goal is to do zoning in the fall,
budget in the spring in order to load balance for town meeting membership. Um, and also to allow for specifically when it comes to zoning related bylaws, anytime that there's someone new coming onto the board, they're coming on at the very end of the process on the planning board or on the select board. They may have very strong opinions on things that
are happening or want to be involved in a way that they would not be allowed to based on the timing. Um, but now that we have the set in stone first Monday in December, again, it's not something where it's sort of the will of the board like we're going to get together in October for a couple years. We're going to do December now. >> Uh, so that we can actually plan for it
and we give more runway for membership on elected boards to be involved in those planning and zoning decisions. It's an opportunity and an option that I just wanted to throw out there. By no means is it required, but in this draft that we have um you know it is almost all budget related articles. Uh there's
a handful of articles that were related to planning that were considered or had are in the process being considered. Planning board's not moving on site plan review in time for the spring as it is anyway. That's one that they've taken a look at I think over a number of years. Um there's changes to the bylaw around the MS4 permit which is storm water
related and then the two other ones that have have been floating out there around among town staff that were highlighted by resident the tree bylaw to make sure that replacement trees are of a similar um >> caliper. >> Caliper thank you at the at the average breast height. That's the other part I
do the ABH um to whatever happens to die or is you know destroyed accidentally rather than replacing something that's gotten to be 4 in with another 1 in wispy thing. And this would only impact um it's for the bylaw impacts places that have a landscape plan as part of
their um site plan. So it's it's really commercial and large residential. It's not something that impacts an individual homeowner uh for the most part. And then the noise bylaw is the other one that's been raised following the um the work with the UV pilot. our our terminology
is a little off and that we don't account for um the ambient noise. We're just going from absolute zero. So, it's something that we need to address. And I guess as I've been told at this point, I have not investigated personally when there were questions about the sound
emission um on the roof deck. That was it was part of the sort of the rub and the give and take was are you measuring it correctly based on the state law versus your bylaw. is your bylaw appropriately. So, that's another one that we would need to sort of flesh out
more, but that that was one of the other um general bylaws that was considered as a potential inclusion this year. So, the first question really now that I've rambled through all that is if you'd be open to the idea of moving um the zoning specific stuff to the fall as a practice
at least for this year and knowing that we really don't have anything planned, but also to allow us to load balance for town meeting members. >> I think that's a great idea. >> Yep. Me too. >> Makes a lot. >> It's a no-brainer. I think >> the only concern is is there ever do we look at risk as as far as having quorums
>> in the fall? >> I >> in the fall. It's actually >> It's actually, >> huh? >> It's winter. >> I think if you had zoning articles though, you'd probably get more people >> really because it' be more substance in a way because
>> it's not just a shuffle. It's something in addition to >> What is the What is the opinion of the planning board? So, I've talked to Marsy about it. I have not gone to a planning board meeting to discuss this. They don't have anything to put forward right now anyway because they're not doing site plan for the spring. >> So, this is an opportunity to not only
recognize what they have going on, but also allow us to plan a little better to make sure that, you know, we get into a cadence that this makes sense. >> It's a little bit academic at the moment because there aren't really zoning things on here anyway. So, it's not like we're moving something off here because of that, right? Well, it's almost better
to do it now uh because there isn't anything on here so that they could be uh so that when they want to put something forth, they're understanding the cadence that they have to prepare for versus having something be at the table and then it sort of feel like maybe a punishment or whatever for it to
go to a later town meeting. I think that's one of the reasons why it's a good opportunity to do it because you're not you're not putting them on a new timeline. And additionally, we have a new town administrator who would like to, you know, have a little bit more,
it's a little I think have the meetings be a little bit more even and not have everything happening at one time, which sometimes, you know, the annual town well, I guess now they're both annual, but the spring town meeting could go three three nights sometimes, especially
if the budget discussion is robust, and that's a lot, especially for a person who pays for a babysitter for all three nights. Um, I had sent in an article on how the finance committee and the capital committee is appointed. I don't see that in here. >> I did not include that. That's on me. I
can add it. >> And then the other question I have here is on this um on this uh what do you call it? Roadicides. >> Rodenticides. >> Rodenticides. Um, I still would like to
see that out of citizens and put into miscellaneous or Yeah, I guess miscellaneous. >> I thought we agreed to that. >> They were going to go back and look and see whether or not it was >> we were allowed to do that.
>> So, it's a question of how you all want to organize it. >> Yeah, >> it's ultimately up to you all. We can the citizen can withdraw if we if we put on the >> if we put forth as part of the warrant if we put something it forth as part of our warrant. >> I'm sorry I thought you were talking about where it lands on the warrant.
>> So I when I talked to Katie today about if there was something that we wanted to do I think ultimately we would propose a warrant that is substantially or exactly the same and that's the only time that you can sort of move through things or withdraw at that point. I don't think we
can at this point because it's already qualified for the ballot. I mean for the warrant. I apologize for the language. >> I I I think I I think we could absolutely take this article and move it into just make a copy of this article and move it into our miscellaneous
articles >> and then allow the petitioner to withdraw it >> at whatever point they want to withdraw it. >> You're talking about the bonfire one. >> No. >> No. Rosan decides. And why is this important? the differences because you
want it to be more of the stamp of the select board. >> Yeah. I wanted and and also because you've had different committees voice it. You've had a past town admin administrator bring this up. I just >> It is already the policy of the town. This is to make sure that it's a bylaw
so that >> if there was anyone in my role or DPW or Yeah. Right. >> Okay. So, I'll work through the >> same thing with the for you know definitely. >> No, no. I I Not that. >> Not that. How about wood fires?
>> No. >> No. Because the woodfires was uh is not from the board of health. >> These are all citizens petitions. What What are we actually talking about here? We're talking about moving the rodent side's petition to a actual warrant
articles that's being proposed by the select board >> having the citizen and having the citizen withdraw it as a citizen's petition because we have all agreed to support it anyways. What? This these three citizens petitions. >> Just the one rodenticide one. Sorry. The
rodent one. Just the first one. >> Move it up to miscellaneous. >> So it's coming from the select board. Not just a citizen. Just a citizen. >> We we all voted on that one. >> No, no, but when we talked about it la was >> we're talking about it now. >> No, we talked about we also talked about it three whatever two weeks ago. Yep.
>> Right. >> That was already the policy of the town that we were already doing this. >> Right. that this was going to solidify the language that the state is now adopting, >> right? >> And like having done that, we would consider just moving it on to the
warrant as proposed by us so that it would have it would have potentially a a a weight bearing to town meeting that we're behind it and not that the citizen is behind. >> I have no interest in that personally,
but I mean whatever the board decides that's Okay, that clears that up. Um, >> and I I have my the uh the other one is this vets money thing. >> Wait, so I don't think it actually cleared up. So, are we moving it or we
not? Because Nick's got to have direction. >> Oh, we're moving it. >> We're moving. >> We are moving it. Okay. >> Sorry. Just want to make sure. >> Okay. >> What about the vets money? >> The vets money. So, when we took the vote, someone can go back in the minutes >> about setting up the fund. There was a
particular language about a particular type of fund that we would be setting up for the money from Benabith when they pay the rent payment that that would go into a specific fund. So it would be there clearly designated for the repair
and rehabilitation of Amber. >> Okay. So the the board voted that we want to make sure that whatever >> yes >> steps that need to be taken are taken by Tom so that it has a place to go. >> I feel like
>> we will add that >> process-wise it's a little uh we maybe took that vote backwards because we need to we need to fund those monies before they come in not put them in a fund after they come in because we're reimbursing ourselves after. No, I don't. >> No, I think you're talking about the
money that is received as a part of the CO. >> It's them achieving the >> Let us look into it. We'll have an answer next week. >> We won't have the money. It's not >> needing the capital money. We still need that because assuming >> the cash flow issue, >> right? >> Right.
>> Right. >> Right. >> But I uh I don't frank I don't remember all the details. I mean, >> so we'll take a look in the minutes and >> we'll see what we can find if we have more questions. There were two technical options and we voted for one and how we were going to do it and so hopefully
it's okay. >> You're just trying to codify it, right? And make sure that it's >> that's it. You will review that through on what we voted last week and >> that long ago. >> I think so. >> Okay. >> December 24.
>> Yeah, David was around that time. Yeah. >> So, is that we want that for next week, right? >> Yeah. Yep. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> So, are we are we meeting next week to open and close this warrant? We're going to open it tonight.
>> Open it tonight. Oh, actually, right. >> Discussion. >> Okay. >> What? >> We're opening it now. Close next week. I guess >> we can close it at the end of the month as well. That would be >> what's happening. >> New members. >> Uh, no. It would have to be the
beginning of May. What date? We have a meeting on the 29th, which is the day after. >> We could figure it out. We'll see where we're at next. >> We're meeting next week, the 15th. Right. >> We could always have a brief meeting, whatever, if we needed to close. >> Don't want to leave us.
>> I just want, you know, finish our business, but whatever. Someone else can finish it. Whatever. >> So, we'll move the citizens on the rodentic side. Rodentic side. >> Yes. >> Look for the vote to make sure we're codifying it. Yes, >> there are placeholders in the drafted
document that's in front of you for >> sound bylaw landscaping that were not complete. I will for now remove them with and send an updated draft that is focused on the budget and citizen petitions >> and please follow up with planning so that they understand >> of course >> the cadence so that they're not caught off guard.
>> It's not the right thing to do. We I will report that back. Great. >> Oh, this idea about the zoning is going to remove the sound and landscape. Those are all still very actively being discussed by the individuals that raised it. >> Um, and would need to put them before KP
as well, which we could definitely turn around. But this idea would be that we would move all of that. And um, earth removal is looking at their bylaw to see changing. I think one of the big things Marzy said is the limits on the amount of earth that can
be moved needs to be sort of adjusted. Um and it's more around development as opposed to earth removal in terms of like the Iraq group working directly with AMRIS. This is around development at individual uh locations. So these are
all things that have been in process and are not complete anyway. So again part of why I was trying to take the opportunity to rebalance. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Great. That is a very innovative idea. Is that one of the questions on the
>> You can put that on his >> Oh, you better. >> I wasn't involved in that. I would have probably put that on there. >> I'm sure you can you can shoehorn it in there somewhere for me. >> Under other >> Yep. There's a spot for comments. >> All right, everybody's good. Moving on to
>> So, we're not So, that's all we have to do. >> Did you vote to We open >> Oh, we want to vote to open. >> Yeah. >> Right. Okay. So, I'll entertain a motion um to open the annual town meeting warrant. >> So, move second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I
>> I sorry. >> Okay, great. >> So, consider it open. >> Important work being done. >> We good now? >> Okay. Discussion and possible vote on let's see discussion and possible vote regarding the findings recommendations
from the investigation of a complaint. So can I comment on this before we start? >> I guess you may. >> So the reason we have we have this on the warrant on the warrant >> agenda >> on the agenda it's getting late on the
agenda is uh my responsibility. So, I'd just like to start by saying that on um the Wednesday evening before Thanksgiving, uh Katie Palin and I received an email from an individual
accusing Mr. Gishman of hitting his car while parked at Vin and Liquors and Whole Foods. And I took it upon myself to walk into the police station to ensure that they received the email. Even though I did forward the email to the police chief and the town
administrator, I still violated the code of conduct by getting further involved. And for this, I apologize to Mr. Gishman, the select board uh and Mr. Gishman, the select board in the town.
And in the future, I will do better. That's my comment. >> All right. Um, where do we go from there, guys? So, I guess a little context. Marilyn gave a little bit of context. Um,
so uh Mr. Gershman uh put forward um a an allegation that somebody, he did not know who, went to the police station and
um with an email put forward uh the only two folks on the email were Miss Fletcher and I and um he uh asked us to put forward an investigation to determine sort of what occurred.
during that interaction. Uh to be clear, I want to say that the matter of investigation is not Mr. Gershman and what occurred or did not occur in the parking lot. The police handled that in normal course and um that was not the matter as of the investigation. The matter was simply to determine what
occurred and what was asked um in the police station that evening. Um the there is an investigation. It will be made public. We've met in executive session and and agreed that it would be made public because it was paid for by
taxpayer dollars um in order to determine sort of what occurred um for the purposes of protecting um members of the public and employees. there are certain items redacted from the investigation. Um and uh the
recommendations of the investigation um you know were listed out for us to discuss in executive session. Um and one of um you know the results of the investigation is obviously the apology that Mary Ellen
just read. appreciate that Mary Ellen um and taking ownership for and responsibility to some of the um the facts in the the allegations. So um is there further comments or discussions?
I guess I would say I I also appreciate Mariel and you um making that statement. Um, I I do think that there were two parts to the
situation. Um, and I'm wondering whether or not um you would agree with that or you're specifically uh feeling that there's only two infraction there only one infraction of
the handbook. um because the as the um independent investigation indicated uh there was one about um and I'm going to read just so I'm not misquoting or misparrasing.
So there's a paragraph in the uh code of conduct says conduct in relation to town staff. Town officials must understand that town staff do not take direction from any individual official on any matter. Therefore, officials should refrain from giving instructions to or requesting assistance from town staff.
All such requests should only go through the chair of the officials committee, the town administrator, or the chair of the officials appointing authority. So, I have to admit when you read what you just read, I didn't quite catch exactly whether or not you felt as though you were addressing that or didn't feel like
that was relevant. I felt that I was addressing it and I think I you know I'm pretty clear here that we're sitting here and we're talking about this and it's my responsibility and I apologize. So uh so the the the context here was
that the uh police department official felt as though they were being given direction uh to undertake this uh and clearly you know through multiple conversations and the code of conduct
we're all in extreme agreement that uh the only person we give direction to in all of town is the town administrator >> and we want to make sure that we only leave that impression with anybody and everybody
>> that that's the only person that we direct all of our communications through and we don't want anyone to feel as though they're being instructed otherwise without the ten >> right I think no no employee should feel that a select board member is telling
them to do a job or telling to do And then the second piece is uh conduct in relation to other town officials which states important town officials shall treat the members of other all other boards and committees with respect despite potentially conflicting roles and differences of opinion. Concerns
about the conduct of another official should be privately directed to the select board chair or where appropriate to the town administrator. And I think I think you I think I picked up in what you said that you did address that piece. >> Yes, I would say I addressed that piece.
>> So, I want to thank Marie Ellen for actually owning this and um admitting fault, right? Because it's not easy to do and we're not none of us are perfect humans and you know, so I I I give you a lot of credit for doing
that, for owning it and and saying it was wrong. Um that doesn't take away the fact that I personally am incredibly annoyed to have to even have this conversation or to have this be a thing. And it's part
of what I've been saying for a long time that we can all disagree. We all have very vehemently publicly. We've had differences of opinion. Um but we absolutely have to chart a different course going forward and I've said it in
relation to our interboard relations with school committee with finance school verse town all of these narratives and this goes to the heart of it. So, sure, this is very specific to this one incident.
Um, you know, David and I don't agree on a lot of things over the years. None of us do on this board, but I am disheartened that I have to even have this conversation and that this even came up because this took it to a new
level and it's disappointing, right? I am really really encouraged by the fact that that Mary Ellen is owning it and recognizing that it wasn't the right thing to do. But I do think that we as a board if we cannot hold each other
accountable then we have nothing. There's zero here, right? We have we're we're we have to hold ourselves in a different category than the people we we represent in this town, right? And if we can't be better,
then we shouldn't be here. plain and simple. Um, you know, this took a different turn because this could have been a really serious criminal situation for someone um for a member of this board that had no idea this was coming and quite frankly didn't really deserve
it. So, I'm I'm I'm upset we got to this point, but I'm also glad that we're doing this publicly and we're owning it and we're trying to we're committing to being better, but I really want that to stick, right? And I don't want that this to be a one-off
where we're talking about it and it's going to go away. I want our relationship building in this town to change and it starts here with this board and it starts now with this. And that means how we talk to each other. how the respect we have for town staff,
for school staff, the professional courtesies we extend and to stop overreaching, overstepping and coming out of our lanes and understanding our roles, right? This this was, you know, a a an odd
situation. It just isn't a norm. It's an outlier, I hope. Um but we signed a code of contact code of conduct. we sign a handbook like I am not here to tell anybody in this town what to do um or to to to assume a position of
power that I don't have right we have a collective power amongst us together as a group we don't unilaterally have this you know overwhelming sense of tell people what to do point it's just got to
stop right so that's that's the request I have um you know and I feel badly that we're even spending time on this when we have so many other pressing things to deal with in this town. But at the same time, I'm glad we're clearing it up.
>> Yep. And I just, you know, I I just wanted to I filed the complaint. I wanted to make sure that uh this does not happen to other um select board members, other volunteers,
uh other members of town staff. other residents uh who you know and I mean it's a complete uh subversion of the chain of command. It's a complete abuse of power
to have a select board member walk in to the Swampscott Police Department on the day before Thanksgiving, the evening before Thanksgiving and say, "I want to get this guy." That's in the report.
That's chilling to me. It's chilling to my family. Um, and it should be chilling to to to everyone um, you know, who's who's listening. And this isn't the first this isn't the first time that this individual has been uh, engaged in
these types of behaviors. >> But this is but this is Excuse me. So, here we go. You're making accusations. That's what you do all the time. You make accusations over very let me let me finish let me finish speaking please go ahead >> thank you >> so this isn't the first time that she
that she has gone to department heads or or other people and requested things and used her her used her power to elicit some type of response again this is >> you know I'm sorry but if you don't have
this abuse he's just going at this again this is abuse of power Mary Ellen >> this is you are I want to get this guy, >> throw things out there and hope that they're going to stick. You constantly make comments. I mean, July 22nd, you literally at this meeting, you you made
slanderous comments towards Gino Cresta and Katie Failing. You This is what you do. You make these comments. You want to make a comment, then just make sure there's facts to back it up. Marielle, you're just deflecting from from your responsibility here, and I appreciate your apology, but
I I think this entire board wants to ensure that your behavior is your behavior is corrected, and that when two new board members come on in a few weeks, that god >> your behavior isn't isn't repeated. It because it is completely and utterly
unacceptable and it has been for a long time. You just got caught this time. Well, I will say this. The behavior that occurred in this allegation is unacceptable. And
as a board, we agreed, we signed a code of conduct and we agreed to hold ourselves to that standard. And that is what we did here. And it's unfortunate that we had to do that. And
my commitment is to continue to do that if that is what needs to be done. And it's it is important for two new members to come on and understand that it it's not just a piece of paper you're signing and that we're going to hold each other accountable to it and that we're going to have a transparent process if we
fail. Nobody's perfect. We all have failings. Um and so when there is a failing, we're going to be transparent about it and we're going to hold each other accountable to it. And that is what is happening here and um that is the commitment I make to the
community at large because that's what you hired us to do. So um if there's no further discussion then we will move on to the consent agenda. Can I get a motion to approve the consent agenda? >> I need two things taken out of the
consent agenda. which two things >> and that is um I don't have the March 18th I didn't get the March 18th minutes just need to get that and >> would you pull out the uh March 2nd
minutes so we will be the request is for the consent agenda to remove March 2nd and March 18th and the vote I will I mean I'm sorry the motion I will entertain now is approval of the consent agenda
minus those two items Anybody >> uh can I I I apologize. I just took note of the spending limit on the recreation of volume revolving fund. I apologize. So either we can pull that and just have
a brief discussion. >> Increase the spending limit of the recrevolving fund for the current fiscal year pursuant to MGL chapter 53E. >> Yeah. one slash two >> or half unclear if effective. >> I didn't catch that. I don't Do we have that in here anywhere? >> I didn't see that either at all.
>> Okay. So, can we just pull that out? >> Yeah, we'll pull it out. Okay. Let's Let's approve the consent agenda with that being pulled out and then we'll cons we'll move that to old and new business and we'll have a conversation about it. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Okay. So, motion to approve the consent agenda as amended.
>> So, moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I Okay. So the minutes we will just move to the next week's consent agenda. Well, we'll talk about the increased spending limit. Um Nick, >> yes. So the increase in the spending limit and I was looking for the exact
number. I have not yet found it. Uh you put a the at each town meeting, we set the the cap for the revolving accounts. Uh we talked about this in like my first or second meeting when we were going into Clark that we anticipated that we would exceed that limit because we were
adding programming and thus adding expense because we pay for the instructors, we pay for the space prior to Clark, you know, whatever the case may be. We we're at the point now that we don't want to pass the limit prior to the end of the fiscal year. So we're raising it mid year. The only way it can
be raised is a a vote of the select board and the finance committee. Um whereas for town meeting we will have an updated number for next year that reflects what we anticipate it actually being with >> so we just we can do it without town like they could go we could pass it they
could go above it even before town meeting votes correct only temporarily >> it's only for it's only for this year and fin >> if you and fin both do it >> and fin has it tenative it's on their agenda so that if you all talk about it >> but there's no number in here >> I'm looking for the number right now as
I said if I could >> Yes please. Well, you gota if I could just have a moment to try to find it. I was having trouble actually reading my phone. >> Shannon, for the consent agenda next week, could you please I believe because the appointment of um Joseph Blood to
the poet laurette committee is replacing me as the select board appointment because this is the the high school student that is coming on that we did not have and I was sitting in this seat for a period of time because we did not have a high school student. So, I don't
I'm not I'm unsure. I will formally resign publicly through this commentary right now. If that is not enough and you need to put something on the consent agenda next week, just let me know and we'll But I I will formally resign to make room for um Oh, >> Mr. Blood.
>> I also have I have a question on the approval. >> Can you take out the on the just take out approval on >> We already did it. >> The bagel. >> We just voted. >> We just voted. >> Just voted. It's a hawker's license that >> everything was in order >> as of yesterday, I believe.
>> You want to reconsider the vote? >> Yeah, I want to reconsider the vote because well, first let me just on a hawker's license, a person can just go anywhere in town and set up. >> There were requests about the actual location that he would like to use uh police provided him exactly where
>> where did I go wrong here? Where did I see because here's the packet. We did not provide you the information that the police provided with locations because >> I don't have anything in the packet. >> There's the hawker app. >> Yeah, you do. >> I don't know if you got your packet early. And >> there's my packet. Yeah. >> In the back it says hawker application.
>> Huh? >> On the one that I just was handed tonight. I was just handed this. So, um yeah. So, I you know what? I I have a problem with giving >> We actually do have uh it says this is where this is the area he'd like to park
his bus. And then he said there we actually do have that email in this packet right here where it says, "Thank you for supplying the photographs. Please be aware you cannot park 20 ft within an intersection. Please be aware to avoid any chapter 90 issues regarding idling vehicles for more than 5 minutes. Our recommendation to ensure your truck
is not facing traffic. It's faced towards the B size. As long as you park on the post office side of the curb, that should be permissible. If there are any public safety concerns or hazards, we reserve the right to restrict your vehicle in the location it's parked. Please let me know if there's anything else we can do. Have a wonderful day, Ruben.
>> All right. So, where is going again? I'm, you know, I'm sorry. This is just Actually, I'm not sorry. Um, you know, this just was just given tonight. Okay. Does anybody Marielle can make a
motion to reconsider the vote? If everybody wants to reconsider the vote, we can remove it from the consent agenda. Otherwise, we've already voted. So, did anybody does anybody want to entertain Marielle's second Marielle's motion? >> No. Doug,
Danielle. >> Okay. So, we've passed it. >> Okay. >> Stop. >> I just, you know, in the future in the future is, >> you know, can I get can I get stuff in advance because just keep being handed
this tonight. >> No, Marielen, we all get stuff at the same time, right? So, >> no, actually, >> it's our responsibility to look at >> I picked this up on I picked this I picked up my packet on Friday, >> right? Okay. It wasn't in my packet. >> Okay. But it was tonight. So it it was
it was handed at just before the meeting started. I mean I I'm what I'm saying is can I have information prior to the beginning of a meeting? >> Yeah. I mean that's fair. >> Oh, thank you. >> Obviously. Um so >> we're talking about a consent agenda here. This is this is not >> this is simple stuff.
>> The the reason I'm bringing this up is because having vendors just parking say a v is the can the vendor just park in front of the new bakery? Can the vendor park in front of, you know, one of our operating, you know, retail establishments? I'm trying to make sure that we're doing everything we can to
protect the businesses in this town. We do not make any tax revenue whatsoever with somebody that comes in and just pulls up and starts selling selling their goods. >> Okay. So, this particular hawker is in frequent communication with the chief of police and town hall
about where he will be parking and what is allowed. and we have not had an issue thus far. So, >> okay. >> Did you find the number? >> Yes, it's currently 500. We're raising it to 650 so that we do not have to come back in the next two months for any
reason whatsoever. It is only money that comes >> 650. >> Correct. >> It's only for money that comes in that goes out to pay for things. It is not something where we're spending that. This is money in, money out, but we have a cap on every revolving account so that we can over time build up retained earnings in any of them. And this is one
of those ways that we protect it. The 650 is just meant to make sure we're not coming back to you or the finance committee again as we get into hiring and planning and paying for things going into the summer. >> Yeah. And as there's and as there's increased programming at the Clark School, there's increased >> summer's the busiest schedule for programming. So, this is a great problem
to have. And I applaud the rec director for having to get us to this point because the revolving fund has been flowing in and out well. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I very good. Select board report and
comments. Would anybody like to make a comment that they haven't made yet tonight? >> Great. Seeing none. I would like to thank um Neil Bishimer and Emilio Rodriguez for being here tonight and Joe
Lulette once again. >> What's up? Perfect. >> I I had a uh I think I mentioned this to you kind of in passing, but I'd like to make a formal request if I would meant to ask Max since he was here today. I don't know if based on everything we're talking about if he would be back next
week uh or not, but um I would love to get an update on uh whether it's from the climate action committee which I can probably um or from Max probably most appropriately where we stand on the
potential for the $1 million plus dollar uh $1 million plus grant opportunity um from climate leader. You did not mention this to me. Mention this to me.
>> You what? >> Sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I'll ask him. I should be able to give that update. In addition, we're submitting a green communities grant for weatherization a few different buildings as part of the normal annual course that we'll be submitting at the end of this week.
>> Yeah. So, don't we have a polic we have a policy in place where we're supposed to be >> seeing grants >> seeing grants and approving grants >> over $50,000? >> Oh, these under $50,000. >> I'll have to check. >> Anybody else? Motion. Motion to adjurnn.
>> Second. >> No, no, you have to make it. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Danielle is the first. David, will you second? >> Second. >> All in favor? I thank you everyone. >> Thanks