What do you say? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Good. Okay. Good evening and welcome to the June 17th meeting of the select board. We'll get started with the ple Oh, you are we are being recorded and we'll get started
with the pledge of allegiance, please. [clears throat] >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Okay. >> Okay. We will begin with the town administrators report. >> Good evening everyone. >> Good evening. >> Um so I'll provide a brief update on the general government side of town hall. Uh on the HR front, we welcomed our new customer service rep, Jacqueline
Jacqueline Jones. Uh we're excited to have her as the office continues to staff back up with Chrissy's transition uh to Lynfield to be assistant town accountant. So we're very excited. In addition, on the 29th, we'll have our new supervisor joining. Um, I will introduce her at our next meeting. She's still working through the exit plan with
her current position. So, uh, want to respect that timing as well. Uh, in addition, we've completed our finalist interviews for the new director of aging services position. Um, Heidi is retiring at the end of this month. We have had a number of qualified candidates and the finalists that we've sat down with have
been fantastic. Um, we anticipate m making that final. um appointment either later this week or the beginning of next week. Um but again, we've had a couple of great candidates uh come in and have those discussions. So, we're really looking forward to the future there as
well. Um in addition, I wanted to speak briefly uh to the project at the Hadley School. I know we've talked about it a little bit here over the last couple of meetings. Um we did receive the design drawings from Dixon and the team, the development team. Um and we're going to put together a neighborhood meeting for
him to go through those uh with folks that are abutters and adjacent. Uh we will publicize that. I think we're we're looking to try to do it all together um on the 6th, 7th or 8th uh when we have our next meeting here. He'll also be joining to go through the the design
plans with you all. But in addition, while he's up, we wanted to do an in-person meeting with uh the neighbors in addition to obviously inviting them here to share their opinions, but to have a a a closer chance to have one-on-one interactions and give feedback to him. Uh also on the development front, I just wanted to highlight again something I mentioned
last time, which is the coming restrictions on parking that we anticipate at Hawthorne. Uh in speaking to the team there, uh as they move closer to completing the work that they plan to be doing, uh and then moving into operations, there will be restrictions. Uh, I think the plan, and
I don't mean to speak for them, but it's certainly a hope that it will start with education before enforcement. Um, it will be well signed so that everyone's aware when and how it's starting. Um, but the hope is if there are folks that are in there that it's a education before enforcement type of thing so that everyone has an opportunity to to get on
the same page. Um, the in addition to that, I wanted to speak briefly about the pier uh fisherman's beach and the fish house more broadly. Um, we've seen an uptick in the number of, you know, what I'll call prohibited activities in the area.
Uh, jumping in the water from the beach, from the pier, fishing from the pier. Um, you know, other things that I would very generally call loitering, but it's really just sort of, you know, not being thoughtful and mindful of your surroundings and the others that are in the area as users. Um, we want to remind the residents, any visitors, uh, and
obviously the kids in town to be respectful of the space, respectful of others in the area, and really be mindful of the surroundings. you know, jumping off the pier into an area with active boating is problematic and troubling, and we want to make sure that type of thing uh does not continue. Um,
in addition, we'll be updating the signage in the area. There is, I think, one smaller and faded sign currently in the space that highlights those prohibitions. We'll be replacing that with something a little larger and obviously new. Um, and we're going to be looking at um installing new bike racks
so that it's not sort of a free-for-all, which is developed over time, uh, that is developing into conflicts between the commercial fish use, um, and, you know, when kids are riding down, we want to give them a place to safely store their bikes and also allow everyone else to be able to use the space the way we plan.
Uh, I've spoken directly to the police department about it. um both the harbor master's office which obvious obviously is right on site when staffed will be um trying to keep an eye on these things but it'll be part of um patrol as well that it's something we just want to keep an eye on. It's not that we necessarily have to have someone sitting there at
all times but we want the visitors uh residents and kids to be mindful and then also we will be there on the education enforcement side as well. Um finally I wanted to highlight it's a you know busy couple of weeks for events. Um, tomorrow we have the Junth event at
town hall. Last week we had the pride event which thank you uh Danielle for your participation in that. Um, and then also on Friday we have the World Cup game which is a US game at 3:00. So we anticipate a big crowd there. And then the week the weekend ahead we have
Harbor Fest and the following weekend or the two weeks to the um the parade as well. So, there's a lot coming on going on between now uh and the 4th and we encourage everyone to get out and enjoy it. Um and so I wanted to highlight that stuff and there'll be a couple of other games. I don't have every game in front
of me that we're showing uh but they're basically daytime or early evening games over the next couple of weeks as we go through the World Cup tournament. It's been great turnout so far. Uh and you know, as I said, we anticipate Friday will be bigger with the the holiday schools and a US game after they had
looked pretty good in their first game. So, we'll see how it all goes. And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions. >> Any questions? >> So, I have questions or comments really um about the pier. So, we've seen a serious uptick. We've gotten I've
received calls from voters, children that are jumping off the pier in front of their boats, >> bikes that are down there. I heard someone drove a vehicle down the side ramp there and just kind of parked there. Um, so I kind of I want to understand what the role is of the
harbor master in terms of safety, peer safety, all of that. How does how does that role? >> So, prior to it being a uniformed police officer, the enforcement, there was some distinction in enforcement. Now that it is staffed by police and we have police
on patrol, that distinction is not really existent any longer. Uh it is not staffed at all times as everyone is aware, but we want to make sure that you know not only when we have someone there that um the harbor master and assistants are thinking about these things and
keeping an eye out for them uh and speaking with leadership at the police department, we also want those on patrol at any time um throughout the day who may be in the area to also be keeping an eye on it, stopping by again to be visible and to make sure that there's
some deterrent beyond signage. Um, and you know, we appreciate anyone else sort of sharing the message as you're doing right now, right? >> Uh, to highlight the need to be really thoughtful and safety focused if you're down there as any type of user at all >> because I know we do have signs down there already, right? There is a sign
that says no jumping or, you know, no bikes or whatever. >> There's a no fishing sign also. >> No fishing, right? >> And I don't know that that is really deterring much. So, um, the other piece of the safety issue that I have right now is, um, pedestrian safety, right? So, we had an incident the intersection
of Salem and Humphrey where a child was hit, >> child on a bike was hit by a vehicle. >> So, um that got me to thinking, is there some way that we can talk to the police about maybe revisiting like a safety officer
position or pedestrian safety position? I think we did have someone that was dedicated to traffic. Well, I don't think that's a really appropriate title, but um more pedestrian safety, maybe someone that can take care of the beaches, the pier,
you know, crosswalks, things of that nature. Um so, I just wanted to be thinking about that because it's it's that time of year and I mean, you know, we have a lot of kids out there riding, we have a lot of walkers out there just walking and I want to make sure that we really are paying attention to safety.
>> Yeah. I I think on the staffing side and how those resources are allocated, I'm happy to have something to tell you on the 7th, whether it's an agenda item or a rundown here of how we plan to move forward. >> Great. >> And then I think as you're aware, but others may not be, um, Gino and I have
been working with public safety um, and others to figure out both short and longer term solutions to improve that intersection. >> And you already did. It's a it's a step in the right direction, but we're all, you know, there's other things that I think Gina had identified certainly and his team are suggesting. >> Um, so there may be additional the in
addition to the restriping and that type of thing that we will be doing at some point over the summer. >> Um, you know, whether it's another rapid flashing beacon, which I think is one of the solutions that's going to be on Salem. Y >> um, you know, we're looking at other options in addition to the idea that was already implemented. >> Great. Thank you.
>> Sure. I I think your comments on the pier are timely and I can only share from my experience. About two hours ago, I was coming back from my >> coming back from my boat about two hours ago pulling up to the pier and there was a kid who was probably having the time of his life but got caught swimming under the floats as I was coming in on a
boat. >> Oh my god. >> And uh if timing were different, it would not have been fun for anybody. >> So I think it's really important it's not being anti-fun, >> right? Because I'm sure if I grew up in town, I probably would have loved to have jumped off that pier. Um, but when
situations don't go right, it can be frightening for everybody. Um, so I appreciate that update and um, look forward to having those situations hopefully be more minimized. >> Um, the only other thing I would bring up is uh, the DPW team did a really good
job um, building out the I'll call it the commercial boat launch, but it's not a boat launch. Um, they did a great job of last few weeks building that. It was really entertaining to watch them build it at low tide, cover it up when high tide came in, low tide came back, they took it off. It was a lot of fun to
watch, but I was at a harbor waterfront meeting this week and there were concerns from the commercial guys that um it wouldn't be used appropriately because it's really designed for them to load their traps on their trucks at all tide points, leave the truck there when they go load their their haul onto their boats and not have their trucks get, you
know, washed out to sea. And I said, I don't know if anybody's going to do that. And then I left the meeting and on my way home I saw a gentleman in his car at the end of it eating pizza and having what looked like a really nice view while he was doing it. Um but I said, "Oh, I guess I was wrong on that." Um so I would just ask maybe we consider some
signage there or some policy that we could consider about uh ensuring that those who use the harbor commercially have the infrastructure that we invest for them used for the purposes that they're being paid for. >> Yeah. And I I will add that Gino and I spoke about that as well. Um I think it
was before we had heard necessarily about the >> pizza incident. It was more related to I think a pile of bikes. >> Yes. >> That were left there. Um, >> so again, I I don't tonight I wouldn't be ready to have something that's fully thought out to sort of share with you
all, but the general sense and idea was looking at can we do something that it's permitted commercial use only type of thing and >> it's a nominal almost non-existent fee necessarily, but it's something where we have an opportunity to then enforce it's being used the way that was intended.
Uh, and it's protected as an investment over time. So that you know a use that might conflict with how it was designed could could result in a a sure >> a timeline that wouldn't be great for that project >> Yep. >> to be sustained. So >> thank you.
>> So two things on the boat ramp piece. Uh can it not be just some ballards with some rope across them that says commercial use only and the fishermen utilize it and we try to I mean sometimes that's enough. I don't know. We'd have to ask that gentleman in
his pizza if that would be enough to stop him. But sometimes just having it not open is enough [clears throat] to stop somebody. Um the second thing I wondered is if there was any way we could get a representation at the Harbor Marine Fest this weekend to be talking about um like float safety, dock safety,
peer safety. >> Um that way there's a presence and there's some education happening before we're just being the fun police. and they may already be planning on that, but we'll underline it tomorrow morning.
>> Thanks, Marilyn. Did you have anything? >> No. >> Excellent. It's >> going to be a long night. So, >> all right. Uh we will move on um then to public comment. So, public public comment will be three minutes. You can approach the
mic, state your name and your address. And um this is unless you're speaking on the ERAC item on the agenda. This is the moment for all comment of for agenda and non-aggenda items. So Iraq is a public hearing. So there will be comment during
the public hearing. [clears throat] >> Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. Master plan is also a public hearing. So you can also talk about the master plan during that. >> Go ahead, Tom. >> Great. Uh good evening. My name is Tom Polaria. I live at 30 Stanwood Road in Precinct 6. I'm a town meeting member
and also proudly serve on the harbor and waterfront advisory committee. I am also the father of three children ages six, seven, and nine who participate in many of our town sports programs including baseball, softball, lacrosse, soccer, and basketball. As my children have
become more involved in sports, I have spent countless hours on fields throughout Swampscott and across the Northshore. One thing that has become increasingly clear compared with neighboring communities, the condition of our recreational facilities has fallen behind. I am not here tonight to
point fingers. I am here to ask the board to work with the open space and recreation community uh committee, the community preservation committee and all other committees in town and improve our recreational fac make improving our recreational facilities a priority and
to fight for this funding and necessary support for this effort. Quite simply, upkeep and maintenance have not kept pace. Our track is in deplorable condition. The bathroom facilities at Black Siege are embarrassing. Baseball fields are overgrown with weeds. Fields
are often not lined. Grass is long. Benches are broken or missing. Fences need repair. And many playing surfaces are uneven and poorly maintained. Because we have so few fields and no room for many new ones. The facilities we do have receive tremendous use. At a
minimum, we must properly maintain and take pride in what we already own. I have visited facilities across the Northshore, and the difference is striking. Their fields and facilities are simply better. In many cases, those improvements have been driven by partnerships with local leagues and
community organizations. In fact, some of the best fields in Swam are the baseball fields at the middle school, which are maintained by our little league organization, proving that we can do better. At Black Siege, one of the busiest and most visible areas in town, we have an agent building that is a borderline eyesore, shipping containers
being used for storage, and a bathroom that I was frankly disgusted by. We should expect more from ourselves. Our town should be proud of these facilities and we should take pride in their appearance and management. For too long, we have focused on new initiatives while neglecting the basic maintenance and upkeep of existing assets. Our
maintenance crews are underst staffed and overworked, and we need their support. And they need support. I believe we need a comprehensive assessment of all recreational facilities, a long-term capital improvement plan, and commitment to funding both routine maintenance and major upgrades. We need to restore the
track, improve the turf, level the fields, repair fences, provide adequate seating, and invest in infrastructure that supports our athletes and families. Swam has a very loud and proud a long and proud tradition as a strong sports community. We have always supported our young athletes and taken pride in this
legacy. We have fallen behind. We can do better and I'm asking the board and I hope the board will make these investments a priority going forward. I thank you for the time. >> Thank you. Hi. Uh, my name is Ruth Davidson. I live at 207 Humphrey. Um, and I'm a couple of
doors down from where the new center for the per well proposed center for the performing arts will be, which I'm really excited about. Really looking forward to having this kind of multiuse space, even if it's temporary. Um, that
I I think it's a really great proposal. Um, and I've really appreciated the conversations that I've had with folks on the select board. And I wish I would really like the opportunity to hear some answers and some comments from the folks involved in the actual proposal, which I
feel like I tried to make possible and has not happened yet. Um, I'm really happy to hear that the sound implications of this will be kept in the walls. That was my only noise concern
about the actual space actually and I think that's really encouraging that that's been committed to. My other concern has to do more with the potential of large crowds at shows late at night who have been drinking all
exiting into that parking lot at once. I don't have a good sense of how the venues will be used. It may be a moot point. It may be a non-issue if it's small groups of people or even larger groups of people at dinner listening to entertainment filtering out at different
points. I don't see the issue. But I think if there's a comedy show, a concert, sorry, thank you. I am short. Um, and you have the potential for 300 people to be in there because that lot handles that. But I don't know if there's going to be a space that will
accommodate 300 people. But 300 people exiting late at night who have been drinking are going to be noisy and rowdy and those of us who live a couple doors up are going to hear it and that would be disruptive. Um, so I'm hoping I would
love to hear from the folks at the venue or the select board around how we're going to handle that and ways to anticipate it. whether it's having representatives from I don't know if it's a club, restaurant, whatever, from staff who are helping to mitigate that
or our local police force, whatever. I would just love to see that managed so that it's not a chronic issue. And then I had one other question for I don't know what I saw that Maria um is also applying for an entertainment license to go in there. I think it's great she's
going to be in there and I'm wondering what kind of entertainment that is. I understand the victualers but it would be nice to know what's actually planned and in terms of the implications for sound for noise. Thank you. >> Good evening. My name is Paula Clarage.
I'm 31 Banks Terrace and I'm here as a resident of Swampscott and as a representative of the Open Space Recreation Plan Committee. Uh, I wanted to present several points that the committee would like you to consider and include in any RFP that's issued for the former Hawthor Hawthorne restaurant
site. We believe that the Hawthorne property should be developed as primarily open parkland without any sizable structures, which is in line with the position of a large number of the town's residents who have consistently indicated a preference that the property be mainly developed as a public park and plaza. There [snorts]
was strong support for open space in the public forums that followed the purchase of the property. The surveys conducted by the consultant hired by the town HDR showed that most important use for the property was public park and open space. A strong preference for more rather than
less open space was also expressed at the public forums held by the Hawthorne Reuse Advisory Committee. Of 545 responses to the committee's survey, 271 favored open space, park, green space for data collected.
People in neighboring communities have benefit benefited from their open space areas along the coast. For example, people of all ages stroll, run, bike year round along the Lynway or around the pathways at Red Rock Park in Lynn, Fort Su and Marblehead, the Willows in
Salem, Lynch Park in Beverly, and Stage Fort Park in Gloucester. These open space areas contribute to revenue generation to these communities by drawing people from these communities and beyond to the open spaces to support events at the parks as well as making
purchases at nearby businesses. Open space at the Hawthorne property would serve as an amenity to our local businesses, including the forthcoming Hadley Hotel to draw people from Swampscott as well as neighboring communities and beyond. We agree with the report issued by the
Hawthorne Reuse Advisory Committee that the Hawthorne restaurant should be removed. The existing building needs updating to meet accessibility codes as well as extensive repairs to address years of deferred maintenance. Depending on the use or occupancy type proposed
for the reuse of the existing building, there is potential for costly new work to replace mechanical, electrical, and building envelope systems to meet current energy code requirements. Lastly, the building blocks the coastal access that's required by the warrant that was approved purchasing the
property. Many arguments have been made for more parking and revenue generation on the Hawthorne site. Based on the redevelopment analysis in November 2024 by the town's consultant, Baker Tilly, the entire Hawthorne Street corridor needs to be addressed holistically and
cohesively. To quote from the report, it says this larger assembled parcel, and they're referring to the Hawthorne property and the adjacent St. John's parking lot, would represent a key anchor on the western end of the Humphrey Street corridor. and reverse a persistent trend
in the town of privatization of key waterfront parcels for residential use and ensure long-term public access to the waterfront in this key district. Previous planning studies have noted a lack of identity for the corridor, including a lack of promotion of local
businesses, difficulty getting around the area, and a need to improve the physical character of the corridor. The Hawthorne property can't be seen as the sole solution to address the parking and revenue issues facing Humphrey Street corridor and the town's finances. Is that it? >> Yeah.
>> Anyway, in conclusion, >> open space and recreation plan committee urges the members of the select board to encourage and promote open space, remove the existing building, and have free public access to the entire property. Thank you very much. Good evening. Uh my name is Jim
Olivetti. I live at 86 Farragut Road and I'm a member of the uh tree committee, the town's tree committee. I I'm here um you know, you've heard most of my message from the previous speaker, but
um in more detail and in writing, uh you were sent a letter on um May 15th from four town committees, the tree committee, the open space committee, the conservation commission, and the climate
action uh uh committee, the uh resilience committee. So, um, if you need a copy of that seven-page letter, and there was a lot of detail in that, um, please, uh, talk to any of the chairs of those four committees. They
all voted to, uh, and edited and participated in the writing of this letter that you received on May 15th. the the overall message is what you just heard that the majority of the Hawthorne
property in the uh your four committees opinions ought to be reserved for open space. Um I think that uh rather than take too much more of your time, I just have one uh suggestion. if there are um
uh citizen committees that are going to work with the the board and the town administrator to plan Hawthorne uh property use and reuse. Um I would encourage you to select also some members from these four committees
who've put a lot of thought and effort and who actually have some purview into open space here in town um to serve on those committees. Please uh think of these committees as a resource that you have and that you can uh draw from as
this very very important project involving open space in our town moves forward. So thank you very much. >> Thank you. Good evening, Town of Swampscott. My name is Brian Driscoll. I'm a resident
at 1104 Humphrey Street here in town. This evening, I'm here to help support my 10-year-old son, Connor, who's been a resident here his whole life, an active sports star in town. Uh Connor has a um a business idea that I'm here to help
him support. And in pursuit of that, we uh contacted Gino Cresta and uh asked for his advice, he suggested that we come here for public comment. And also in preparation for that, Connor has gone around town and collected over 50 signatures in um approval for his idea.
So we wanted to uh start this process by making sure that we let the board know that uh we would like to um support Connor's idea. I'll let him tell you a little bit more about it, but then we'd like your feedback later, too. Hi, my name Hi, my name is Connor
Driscoll and I want I want to make a business and basically what my business is about it is about Thank you. It is about painting house numbers on
the curb and how that benefits the residents of Swampscott is first responders, delivery drivers, um ambulances, and emergency services in general can
see your house number better. So, basically what I'm trying to wrap up by that is you'll be safer and you'll have a higher chance of being alive in if um a situation ever happens
at your house. >> It's a great idea. >> Thank you. We'll submit this. [applause] >> Thank you. Connor would like to submit his proposal to the board for inclusion in the meeting minutes and we'll look forward to following up with you. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> And also the longest touchdown I've ever
gotten tackle football is 85 yards. [applause] >> Great job. >> I've seen him in action. He is a very good football player. [laughter] >> Uh good evening. Um I'm Daryl Smith. Uh I'm not a resident of Swampscott. I'm a
business owner of 33 years in town at uh on Humphrey Street. I had my dental practice there. Um I was here about a month ago uh when Cedar Hill was being discussed about changes to the parking rules. Uh I kind of just wanted to
update you what's happened. So since then they've painted some lines at the corner. That corner where everything was a mess has been improved. Um, and they they haven't improved the signage. They haven't cut some of the
branches higher up on Cedar Hill that would make it a lot easier for street parking. Um, and they have really started enforcing. Uh, so I've got a half dozen tickets of my staff. Uh, in 33 years I've never gotten a parking
ticket parking on Humphrey Street. I've always it's always been pro business. Um, a couple times cops have asked me to move cars or do this or that and we've always complied. Um,
since the new rules at the uh at by the pier parking have gone into effect, those are being enforced. I've been there three or four times between 11 and 2 o'clock during the day and there's 20 open spots. There's lots of parking
there. Um I have 12 spots of my own in my own business which is probably pretty a lot for Humphrey Street. Um but we have a very busy practice, lots of patients. We leave the parking at my
place open for customers so that you know people can access dental care. Um so the new rules have made it really difficult for my staff because I asked them to park somewhere else. In the past it hasn't been a problem. Lately it is.
You had mentioned that there might be a form or some discussion public discussion about what to do with parking. You know it could be simple as some sort of pass. so that my staff could park on the street. There's a 2-hour limit. So, some of these tickets
are over the 2-hour limits. I've also had a couple patients get parking tickets because some of them come for longer than two hours. Um, so enforcement is working. Uh, but it's it's for the first time in 33 years,
it's now tough for my team to find parking. So, uh, you mentioned the public forum to discuss the issue. Uh, give me a call when you want to put something together and I'll I'll get involved in that. So, I'd like to find out some way to make it
accommodating for businesses that have employees and uh, don't want to be shut out from parking on Humphrey Street. There's lots of parking at that end of the street that uh, you know, seems like there's always a spot available. So,
it's never really been a problem until till enforcement and the new rule at the uh, you know, by the beach parking. So, thanks for hearing me out. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Daryl Smith. And you can find me.
>> Hi, Dennis Peot. I'm at 19 Thomas Road. I guess uh I just want to start off by thanking everybody just here and just in town. Um I'm having a great summer and I think a lot of it's due to a lot of really great things that's that's happened. I've been over Philips Beach, they've got the mats down, the beach has
been great, the lifeguards have been really helpful. Um and you know you know that the beach is you know the weather's been perfect for that and you know I've been able to take advantage of that. I've also taken advantage uh you know being right next to town hall all the different activities. Um going to the
the farmers market you know Danielle deserves a lot of credit for getting it going. It's a you know packed a lot of people there. Get some wonderful fish and vegetables and stuff. Um Pride Day was great. Um this afternoon I hung out. Um watched the soccer game. Big crowd.
Kids were all over the place. Went to the Mexico game. Uh youth soccer sponsored free ice cream for the kids. They were they were having a great time. So, um, as all the different struggles that that people have, I just want to let people know that there's a lot of really good things in town and that part
of town, town hall and where we're going has really developed into a really strong community area that a lot of us are really enjoying. That being said, you know, I've talked to a lot of my neighbors just around all the changes and stuff. There have been some issues
with parking and other stuff, but there also been a lot of benefits. Um, and I'm here today, you know, just to put a pitch in for for the entertainment license for the Hawthorne. That part of town has grown and developed this great food. Um, friends from Atlanta came in, they, you know, got some pizza at
Volvos. They loved it. One of the best pies they ever had, you know. So, we've got a lot of positive stuff going on. And I think it's important for us to realize that part of town has changed. When I first moved to Swans, it was pretty dead. Um, you know, there was parking issues from the senior center,
you know, cribage night on Wednesday nights. came out. You know, there was a little bit of parking issues with that, but that was it, you know, and now we've got a lot more activities, a lot of really positive stuff, and I think we need to keep the ball rolling with that. I understand and I think we need to look at some of the concerns of the
neighbors, but being a neighbor over there and talking to a lot of our neighbors, a lot of people are really excited about this. and a lot of people although we want to you know make sure that everyone's concerns are heard I also want to express that many of the neighbors in that you know are excited about this opportunity to be able to get
some cultural uh activities going in there and continue the the positive momentum um stuff going at the library I mean it's just a great part of town and I'm so excited you know after being there for 20 some odd years this is the most exciting you know time for that
area and I think you know hopefully with the hotel and everything else. You know, the beaches being clean. I mean, Gino, great job in in terms of, you know, the work in trying to make sure that Kings Beach is clean. Let's try to continue this momentum and just I wanted to kind of express that a lot of us, the
residents in that area are very grateful for all the hard work by so many people uh to make it a great place to to be. And I'm just glad that I live where I live and be part of this town and for all those, you know, DPW, everybody else in town and for this board to all the
hard work that people have put in have really made a big difference and most of us are having to enjoy it. It's one of the best summers I've had in a while. Thank you. >> Thank you. [applause] >> Hi, good evening. Charlie Patio's 130 Atlantic AB here in town. Um, normally people come here and address the select
board because they want some they want you to do something. Um, I'm here tonight to say thank you for being here. Uh, many many nights late. Um, not always thanked. I'm here to thank you. Thank each and every one of you. Thank you. Um, I also realize that you're
trying to get more done and with less. And that's not an easy thing. And we're trying to balance the needs of our seniors, trying to our youth, our schools, all our services. And it's a tough thing to do. And we're running out of money. Quite frankly, um it's tough
to make uh bricks without straw. It's really it's a difficult challenge. Um I know that one of the things you're going to be talking about tonight is the Hawthorne. Um, I could tell you from and I don't represent the board of assessors here tonight, but I think like one and uh and I'm the member of I'm member of
the board, but again I am not here in in that capacity. the revenue that you can realize from a Hawthorne development, no matter what the development is other than open space, which might not please everyone, but if we want to run our schools and we want to build a senior
center, we want to build uh a better community and and infrastructure to be strong and dependable, we need revenue. Uh, I'm estimating the revenue from a Hadley Hawthorne redevelopment somewhere in the vicinity of 1.1 to 1.5 million
between real estate taxes, meals tax, and room tax. That's a significant amount of money. The planning board is very capable. We have a very, very well staffed and educated planning board. I
think if you lean on them with the cooperation of the select board and zoning, you'll be able to come come up with something that will address the needs of the city, excuse me, the needs of the town in a very deliberate and thoughtful way that addresses the needs
of not only the youth but also the senior and everyone in between and our infrastructure that we that we all depend on, businesses as well as residents. So again, I appreciate what you do. Easy job and I want to just say
thank you sincerely. Um it's not easy and tonight will be proven. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Evening. >> Hi. Um I'm Tanya Lillick. I'm the chair of the open space committee and I am
here tonight to address the Hawthorne the RFP and obviously as being the chair of the open space committee uh we are in great support of having open space as much as possible at this site. I believe a lot of residents felt that this was
something that they voted for at town meeting. A lot has happened since then. Uh but I'd like to just talk about some of the things that would be important in terms of open space. Uh Swampscott is a very small town. We have lost open space
which I will talk about in a um a little bit. But it is important that we just don't pave over everything. We definitely need to think of open space and the greenery and the characteristic town and beautiful town that we have and
we just need to keep that. This is an opportunity for a beautiful waterfront park, [clears throat] a gateway jewel to our town. And once we've done something to it, it is very hard to go back once we put any sort of sizable structure on there. So, I just wanted to talk about a
few things that have happened over the years in terms of open space being lost. Um, so the town had failed to buy the extensive one Salem Street property adjacent to the current middle school and Tedesco golf course despite the vote
at town meeting urging the town to do so for the reasonable price of $600,000. Um, the a campaign was in initiated to convince voters the property was too expensive and unfortunately no no open space was gained there.
The town purchased the formal Temple Israel property on Humphre Street for 3.5 million and sold it in the end to a developer and a part to a butters and again no option for open space. Uh the former Swamcot High School on Greenwood
uh it was donated to the town by Philips family spec specifically for a school but in the end the town sold it to a developer uh effectively giving the property away. Again, no open space. And this is the highest hill in Swamscott with commanding views of the ocean. And
the new Swamot High School here was built on open space with the promise of compens uh compensating open space being provided elsewhere in town. This promise was never fulfilled. Uh more recently, the White Core property was again uh not being able to
be purchased by the town or have it be open space. And then finally with the conversion of the f uh the Hadley school, a Hadley hotel and we will also be losing open space with regards to the playground there. I we really feel that
the Hadley Hotel is going to be a great uh thing that very bringing in a lot of revenue and I think the complimentary part of the Hawthorne will be something that will be will draw visitors in. Also keeping in mind that there's lots of revenue that can be generated with a
park. We talked about Lynch Park as being, you know, weddings, that sort of thing. So, we can't rule out the fact that there will be revenue generated by this park. So, I just would like to um ask you to consider this when we're talking when you are talking and discussing about the RFP tonight, and I
appreciate you taking the time to hear me out. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. [applause] >> Hi, everybody. My name is Christine Collins. I'm a 35 year resident. I have never ever been to a town hall. So, I'm very excited to be here. And thank you.
Yeah, never too late. And I kind of wanted to um talk a little bit about something I've seen kind of jumping on what this gentleman said, but a little bit differently. I am so excited about how many people are walking to our downtown area. I live on 84 Puritan
Road. My sons and I will be on the porch having something and tons of people walking by to go downtown. It's really exciting. I mean, I have friends, like you said, you know, that are coming to to just be here. I feel that no matter
what we do down the line with the property and I I do respect the open space. I really do. I think right now there's a this great opportunity, like they said, to have this amazing cultural space and I can't wait to walk there.
>> I really can't. I drive in town. I drive into Boston. I pay $40 to park, $100 to do this. I'm going to be able to walk. I'm going to have my friends park in my driveway and we're going to be able to walk down. We're going to be able to go to Little G or G and then go to the
lounge or the comedy stop. And I just I think it's becoming a walking town. and I just love that. So, I just wanted to say that and how excited I am about the whole thing and I can't wait to see what they're going to have there. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. [applause] >> Hi. Um I'm at Masmini Nason Road. You
know, I'm I haven't prepared anything, but I I heard about the meeting and I'm really excited about what's what what could be developed at the Hawthorne side with the entertainment. And you know, if you look at what we have uh downtown now
and the restaurants, they seem to be doing really well. I you know, I don't own them, but the dock side's been great. G has been gray and just add more to what we have here. And I respect the open space, but you know, we have three
great beaches here. You know, Phillips Beach is amazing, right? And and you go down to Fisherman Beach on a Saturday night, Friday, and have people are are having a good time with the U bonfires and stuff. So, it's it's really good.
And, you know, as everybody knows in this town, we're becoming an island. getting out of this town, getting to this town is really tough and it's going to get worse when they redevelop the Linway. So, I think we have need to have more development in town so we have more
to do here and you know I I'm really in in support of it and hopefully it goes through. Thank you. [applause] >> Please. Um well, Mr. Watson is approaching. I will read um a public comment that I've
received via email. Uh this is from Katherine Wilson, precinct 3 Elmwood Road. Dear Select Board, I'm writing to express my support for a full entertainment license at the new Swamscott Performing Arts Center. Recently, I made a call to the Swampscap PD requesting that they ask Mission on the Bay to lower the music. The police
went into Mission on the Bay, however, never asked them to take action and lower the muting. Uh excuse me, lower the music. I watched the June 3rd select board meeting and the owner of the new establishment made it clear he would abide with keeping his music and sound within his property. I'm looking forward to having this new establishment in town. Would appreciate it if the select
board would grant them a full license equal to any other establishment in the area. With appreciation, Katherine Wilson, >> please go ahead. >> U excuse [clears throat] me. Brian Watson, 20 Oak Road. Um in in listening to people's comments, it struck me that
that a number of people uh sort of take a position that has to that the development of the Hawthorne site has to be all one thing or all all another thing. You know, people talk about all a park or all green space and and refer to anything else as paving
over the lot. And I think I think a way for the town to think about the site is it's 1.4 acres and we can do more than one thing. Uh I think our professional staff Margie and Christa would testify
to the fact that the survey of about 550 people split relatively even even between people who preferred more open space and people who preferred a hybrid which would which would have some development. Um I think that a careful
development could could satisfy a lot of the desires of the majority of town's people. Uh for example, some some of the plans of the Hawthorn Hawthorne committee showed 50 or 60% park toward
the ocean side of the of the site. We were very sensitive to people's desires for preserving a view uh and for having a significant amount of green space. At the same time, our committee felt with the exception of one person, our committee felt that we could also get
substantial revenue if buildings were were gathered either along the street or perpendicular to the street, but in relationship to the streetscape and the economic corridor that exists. So, so I think I think our town can can kind of do both and and come up with a plan
that's not that's not a compromise. It would be strengthened because it it does both. Uh we could reinforce good town planning by strengthening the identity of the Humphrey Street intersection there at Humphrey and Readington. It's a very important
intersection and it would be a natural to build some streetscape or or a courtyard if people don't want buildings hard on the street. There are a number of ways you can arrange arrange a bunch of buildings 20,000 30,000 square feet of buildings. Uh and then you the town would have 50 or 60% of the site that's
more than half from from the buildings back to to be a park and that's where the park wants to be. If if if you had a 100 town planters in here, I think they'd they'd feel like making the entire site a park would in fact be
inappropriate. Uh we have a lot of open space across the street and it would look strange. It wouldn't look like part of a streetscape. And then the last thing of course is the revenue issue to to to make if the town were to make the entire site a park it is roughly 7 to9
million of public money and there aren't grants available that are going to give us 7 to9 million dollars. So it's it's sort of a happy coincidence that that building an entire park is too expensive anyway. I mean, I think I think the
hybrid plan would can satisfy a lot of the goals that people have expressed uh and and so I would encourage the board to look at doing many things satisfying many goals and and they do happily mesh into a plan that would uh that you know
that nobody would have to apologize for. Thanks. >> Thank you. [applause] Okay, seeing no additional comment online, we will move on to the first agenda item which is um the earth removal advisory committee joint meeting
with the select board and the public continuation of the public hearing or the amise permit. So, do we have the We do see some members rack here with us tonight. >> Is it just you?
>> What's that? [laughter] >> I said just you tonight. >> Yes. Uh Joe Marion, 22 Nason Road, U chair of the uh Earth Removal Advisory Committee. You have our recommended permit. Uh there are no changes since uh we met two two weeks ago. So, uh, the
expectation is that the select board would vote, uh, on this permit. That would, uh, allow, um, Amrise now to operate between July 1st of this year into, uh, June 30th of next year. >> Okay. We, um, there you are cannot open
the public meet I mean your joint meeting because you're just one tonight, but we can >> we continued our meeting last. >> We did. So, we have to open we have to vote to open them. >> Well, I don't have a quorum here, so that's what I mean by I'm figuring that meeting is open.
>> It's It remained open at the end of um two weeks ago. It's open now. It's going to continue to be open until I meet again with a quorum. >> Okay. >> Gotcha. >> Is George Is George online? >> No, we can close it. >> I think George >> Yeah, George is George Allen is online.
Yes, >> but he's not yet a >> He's not on the yet >> of Iraq. >> He was assigned last night as >> we have the vote to have him on the committee. >> No. Board of Health. I think they they choose their own. >> Yeah. By article board. >> So, yes. >> Okay. So, we have two of what? How big
is your committee? Five. >> We still three more. >> How big? >> You need three members, right? So, so George, >> we have we have five voting members. >> Yes. >> Uh, three appointed by the select board, one is appointed by conservation, one appointed by board of health. >> Yeah. So, we still have >> We still don't have a quorum.
>> Still have enough for a quorum. >> Um, but we should Can we open the public hearing, Nick? It's continued. >> It's just continued. We never closed it, but we should close it and then we should take the vote to support. But if there's public comment to be made
regarding the earth removal permit, now would be the time for that. So, if you have spec public comment specific to the MRI permit. Okay. Okay, seeing none uh questions
from the board regarding um anything that was not answered last time. >> No, I'm I am in support of >> great >> passing this. Um Joe uh spoke at the board of health meeting. >> Joe spoke at the board of health meeting
last night and um I think everyone's in agreement. Joe, if you want to fill the select board in with some of the things he talked about last night, maybe that's helpful. >> No. Um well very quickly uh what part of the um part part of the uh discussion has been this board of health is um is more focused on the quarry and the
quarry activities than prior boards of health. Uh just a matter of what they what a board of health chooses to focus on. There's nothing other than that. And uh what we decided was that uh the board of health might do best to have one of its members as a voting member of Iraq.
Um so uh to accommodate that our uh John Picarella who was appointed by board of health previously resigned hopefully to be appointed by you folks uh into the open seat that you have an appointment power on and um and George Allen was was
um appointed uh to be the board of health rep on on so now we have a full complement of five voting members which is good. >> Excellent. >> Great. >> Okay. Does does the board have any additional questions regarding the permit? I would be happy to make a motion to
approve the MRI uh permit as presented. Second. >> Okay. >> Um all in favor of supporting >> Oh, sorry. >> That's okay, Mariel. >> Disobeyed that. >> Go ahead. >> I >> I >> Okay. So, now we the permit has passed.
>> Now we need to close the public hearing. >> Motion to close. Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I Okay, great. So the permit will remain until next year and you know I do know that George had some ideas from the public health's perspective about you
know >> changes to the permit. So hopefully now we have the runway to see if any of those can be instituted for next year. >> Those discussions are just starting right with Amrize and uh and and I expect that we'll >> we're going to get on that fast. >> Thank you so much. Thanks Joe for
>> Thank you very much for your hard work. >> Appreciate it. All right, moving on now to the joint meeting and public hearing for the master plan adoption with the planning board. >> Just a quick question for order. Do we need to sign this tonight or electronically?
>> Do we need to Are you electronically affixing our signatures to the permit? >> Can we vote to give? >> Yeah. >> So, do you want to make a motion? >> Sure. I make a motion that uh uh we allow electronic a fixture of our signatures onto the contract. The permit. the permit.
>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Okay. Thanks, M. >> All right. Um, would you guys like to >> open up? >> That'd be great. >> 17. [laughter]
master plan and to hopefully approve the same. >> Excellent. Do we have to vote to enter there? We have to vote to open the public hearing. Yeah. So, >> I'll take a motion to open the public hearing. >> So, moved. >> Second. Whatever. >> Okay. All in favor?
>> I. Okay. So, now your meeting's open and the public hearing is open and now we can hear all the great things that you >> I think we'll start with you. >> Um, so, okay, great. This is on. So, good evening members of the select board, members of the planning board, and members of the public. For the
record, my name is Christa McGaha, senior town planner for the town of Swamcot. I'm joined this evening by Marzy, um, director of economic and community development, and Carlos Montinees from the Metropolitan Area Planning Council, who is joining us remotely tonight. We're pleased to
present the final draft of the Swam Scott master plan 2035 for consideration by the planning board for adoption and by the select board for endorsement. This effort represents approximately 18 months of collaboration among MAPC, the master plan advisory committee, town
boards and committees, town staff, and most importantly residents of Swamcot. The document before you this evening reflects a shared vision for the future of our community and provides a framework to help guide planning, policy, and investment decisions in the years ahead.
So, if you could move on to the next slide. Thank you. So, before going any further, I would like to thank everyone who contributed to this process. That's including the 27 members of the master plan advisory committee, our town boards and committees, community organizations,
town staff, stakeholders, and the many residents who share their time, ideas, and feedback throughout the process. This plan was shaped through extensive public engagement and reflects the priorities, values, and aspirations noted by the community over the past 18 months.
While MAPC provided technical expertise and facilitated the planning process, the vision, goals, and recommendations contained in the plan are rooted in the input received from the community. So, the final draft report that we are focusing on tonight has been made
available on the community development page on the town's website. We look forward to working to advance the community's vision and to thoughtfully implement the plan's goals and recommendations in the years ahead. Um, and at this point, I would like to turn the presentation over to Carlos,
who will walk us through the final plan, the community vision, and all the implementation work. >> Good evening, members of the planning and select boards. I'm Carlos Montinez. I'm a principal planner at MAPC and thank you for this opportunity. Um, now
I'll quickly map the six macro steps that brought us to tonight. We started with a, if you could um, advance a slide. Thank you. We started with a community survey in 2024. We moved through three public
forums and six advisory group working sessions. We had a planning board preview in January of this year and then we had a public comment period for the draft uh that ran between March 2nd and April 18th and we transmitted the final
report on May 15th to the town. The comment period was extended twice to make sure that the community had ample access and town planning staff actively recirculated materials throughout the extended window. 15 respondents submitted 57 individual
comment periods or comment points during that period. I'll come back to those later. Before getting into what the plan says, let me set the frame for what kind of document the master plan actually is. Next slide, please. This is probably the most important
framing point in the whole presentation. Uh adopting this plan tonight does not legally require the town to do any specific thing. It is not a zoning regulation. What it does is give every board, every department, and every
committee at Swamska a shared framework for making decisions. Our working definition of consensus throughout this process was that everyone agre that that not that everyone agrees on every single point, but that the community can
collectively live with the direction and move forward together. And that is what this plan reflects. Uh town staff retained final discretion on which recommendations to pursue and when. The recommended master plan implementation
committee would perform the role of keeping master plan ideas alive on a regular basis throughout the 10-year plan horizon. So what does that direction actually look like? I'll show you on the next slide the community's north star.
Um so this is a an abbreviated version of the vision statement and there were six themes that came out of this process as things that swamps said mattered the most. These were uh preserved identity
rooted in maritime heritage, thriving and affordable neighborhoods, vibrant economic hubs at Humphrey Street, Vinnon Square, Anony's Pier 4, and the Hadley School, sustainability and mobility, public gathering spaces,
and transparent, equitable governance. The community rated this vision statement during the public comment period by giving it four a 4.2 out of five on average. 12 of the 14 respondents who gave it a four, which is
a strong fit and um or they gave it a five for an excellent fit. Not one person rated it below a three. uh that is not a unanimous agreement on every detail but it is a strong signal of foundational consensus around the
general direction. Now on the next slide let me show you the structure the plan uses to get there. The master plan is substantial but it's also organized in a way that makes it usable. Uh there's one
vision statement that flows into 10 crosstopic themes that cover eight main planning focus areas. There there are 42 goals with 96 strategies, 35 of them being priority and 247 recommended
actions, 116 of which carry some priority designation. Here's um how the work sequences in the next three years approximately from 2026 to 2028. There are 76 actions in total.
47 of those designated as some level of priority. That is what the town could focus on first. The middle period from 2029 to 2032 has 125 actions with 57 of those having some priority designation.
The longer term phase through 2035 has 46 actions with 12 of those being some level of priority. The phasing is deliberate frontload the urgent and the achievable build capacity and then tackle the more complex and
transformative work once the foundations in place. the uh the town's not obligated to do it all and earnestly pursuing a subset of the most compelling priority items could be regarded um as a very worthwhile
successful endeavor. Now on the next slide, let's see the eight areas of focus. There are eight planning elements but they don't operate in silos. Um the elements are the following. economic and community development, land use and
zoning, housing options, um transportation, mobility, open space and recreation, public services, historic and cultural resources, and climate and sustainability. The plan highlights 10 crosscutting
themes that run across all of those eight elements to make sure that the connections are explicit. A, for example, a decision about storm water infrastructure is not just a climate win. It can also be um a land use investment and a public facilities
decision at the same time. Solutions in one area can also routinely advance multiple priorities simultaneously. Uh when we opened the final draft for the public comment period, the community weighed in on all of this. And on the
next slide is we'll show you some of what came back. We opened draft 1.5 for public comment from March 2nd to April 18th. And I'll go through uh who responded and what they said. 10 of the 15 respondents
provided their names and nine identified their organizational affiliations. The represented groups included members from the master plan advisory group, the finance committee, the climate action and resilience committee, swamps for all
ages, the council on aging, the affordable housing trust, the community preservation committee, and the swamps conservancy. Two respondents identified as residents without any affiliation. And the average respondent spent 78
minutes completing the form, which we interpret as meaningfully engaging with the the report and providing us feedback. Across the 15 responses, we cataloged 56 discreet comment points. 43 or more were
fully or partially incorporated. The vision statement rated was rated 4.2 out of five. Uh the chapter level scores range from 3.8 for open space to 4.4 out of five for land use and zoning.
There were also three priority designations that were reclassified as a direct result um in response to the public comment period. Let me walk on the next slide. We'll walk specifically to what changed in the final document.
So every one of the 247 actions now has a unique ID so the recommended implementation committee can easily track and report progress. That change came directly from a comment period request. Language was revised across
four sections of the plan [snorts] to more explicitly uh reflect the community's preference for publicly accessible open space at the Hawthorne Waterfront property. Accessibility and inclusive language was improved throughout the report with framing based
on the language from the open space chapter. And there were uh three priority re reclassifications and these were green infrastructure for storm water management was elevated to a high priority.
Open space acquisition was elevated to a medium priority and invasive plant removal was elevated to a medium priority. All three of these reclassifications came from public comment um period input. Uh the plan's
overall structure didn't change. There's still 42 goals, 96 strategies, and the 247 actions, but the priorities were sharpened. So on the next slide we'll um go through what the plan actually prioritizes first and we'll look at the next three years
on infrastructure. So there were 47 priority actions in the first three years organized around four buckets on infrastructure and resilience. There's Kings Beach water quality remediation and the EPA consent decree
coordination as front and center alongside seaw wall protection and green storm water infrastructure work was elevated to that higher priority on connectivity. There's the rail trail construction as antip anticipated for
2026 2027 that is very near-term also safe routes to school implementation and ADA accessibility improvements are also in this window then on housing and affordability
there's the missing middle zoning reform there's the affordable housing trust capacity building and ADU implementation as well as um home weatherization outreach. And lastly on economic
vitality, there's continued Vinnon Square activation work and small business facade improvements as a high priority. So these are uh communitydriven priorities that we recorded as part of the process. They showed up consistently
across 385 survey responses including 1,800 comments, three public forums, and almost two years of advisory group working sessions, including uh input assessment exercises that occurred between the meetings and the working
sessions. So on the next slide, we'll show how none of this starts from zero. And Swampskut's already built a lot of foundation. This plan could accelerate. So we'd like to show you and acknowledge what's been done. So uh this slide is worth pausing on swamps. It's not starting from scratch.
I'll only touch on a few examples from the slide. On climate and energy, there's the uh green community designation continuously in place since 2010. Also uh in terms of um m momentum, the climate leader community
certification in May 2025, one of the first of 19 municipalities in Massachusetts to achieve this on housing and zoning, the ADU enabling bylaws passed town meeting in 2022. MBTA communities compliance was achieved
in 2024 and Vinnen Square design guidelines were adopted in January 2024. On transportation, there's the complete streets funding for ADA curb ramps, sidewalk repairs, and traffic comic improvements, as well as rail trail is
now at a 25% design. Our fourth area of momentum and success um is economic development whereby there was a committee um established in 2020. Approximately $75,000 in facade grants reached eight downtown businesses as
well as wayfinding at 12 locations. On open space, the ADA playground renovations at Abbott, Jackson, and Stanley parks were completed from 2020 to 2023, and Philips Park had 12 acres
permanently protected. Lastly, on public services and facilities, um over $8 million for the public safety building renovation was completed in 2022 and there were 2.1 miles of water mains replaced. So, this is all in
acknowledgement and recognition that um this plan accelerates that momentum. It did um it's building upon that. So, on our next slide, we'd like to show you how did the different parts of the town actually use this plan moving forward.
So different bodies play different roles but the cadence is the same. Monthly reference, quarterly reviews and ideally annual reports. The planning board could regularly consult the plan during
reviews and zoning discussions in order to frame decisions with community consensus from the master plan report as readily available context. The select board could consider it for capital investment priorities. Uh department
heads could consider it for aligning their annual work plans um and programs as well as grant applications in um in order to reference specific um recommended plan action ideas. and the recommended master plan implementation
committee could coordinate across departments, review some progress every um review progress over every quarter and then report on an annual basis to both boards. One practical point worth naming, every
grant application that the town submits that references specific plan priorities could make it a stronger application and that could be a really tangible near-term benefit of adoption tonight. The single most important first step
tonight is establishing that recommended implementation committee and we'll discuss that on the next slide. So this is priority number one after tonight and we are recommending it could be in place as early as winter of this
year ideally so as to not lose momentum. Um the implementation committee could be a joint volunteer and municipal body. Its job could cover quarterly progress reviews, cross department coordination,
grant opportunity identification and annual reporting to both boards. What it is not, it's not a new approval layer. It's not a veto over town decisions and it's not a replacement for existing boards. Final discretion stays with town
staff. This recommendation was actually carried forward from your prior 2016 master plan. It was recommended then and we're restating it now. Um, two greater Boston communities show that it can work. Milton created their first version
in 2014 and they just revamped it at a special town meeting in October 2025. Arlington has had a standing committee doing this work since 1992. Um these are proven capacity strengthening structures.
Now on our next slide, we'll close with what could happen after our completed project. Um MAPC's role concludes tonight and the town's master plan implementation role begins now. MAPC we've delivered about
18 months of engagement that 385 response survey with over 1,800 comments six working se um working group sessions three public forums and that public comment period and tonight's form will transmitt. The plan includes a sequenced
and prioritized implementation chapter in order to guide the town with where to start first. Uh what comes next belongs to the town to swamps potential potentially formal adoption tonight as well as consideration of that implementation committee formation later
in this year. And now on to our last closing slide. Uh before we open for your questions, we just want to give you a genuine thank you to all the people who made this possible. the 27 advisory group members who gave their time and input to the
planning staff for all of their feedback and responses to the hundreds of residents who completed the surveys, attended the forums and submitted comments and to the planning board and select for your partnership throughout. Uh we had liaison on the master plan advisory committee throughout the entire
process. And now this is Swampskit's plan and we're proud to have served as your planning partner. So with that, I'll turn it over back to Christa and Marzy and yourselves. Thank you. >> Great. Thank you. Um I think we will
open it up for questions um and discussion from both boards. >> I I'm just going to start this off if that's okay. Katie, >> is that because you have sat on both boards? uh to start maybe >> I just think it would be helpful I will
uh pass the mic to Angela um to give context about what a master plan how the 2015 master plan was developed what the 2035 master plan that we're looking at here builds off of and how in practice this is used by both the planning board but the select board but from practical
experience I pass that to Angela because she um was part of this latest working group but also led the 2025 Swanscott master plan so I think lens will be helpful for us as we have our conversation tonight. >> Please >> throwing you under the bus, Angela. [laughter]
>> Thanks, Ted. Um, it's it's very exciting to, you know, be in the beginning of a brand new master plan and I think what's important for most people to understand is that um, looking at this, it it seems very complex and, you know, I would advise that anyone who wants to go
through it, just pick a pick a topic and then just read through that. And I think it's very readable and usable and um it it gives a a good sense of direction. We have definitely uh used the master plan
and its um its advisements, its recommendations on I would say just about every zoning article that we've passed um over the past you know 12 years um this including right up until
now. Uh in addition in terms of implementation um although we didn't have a standing committee there were many of us that kept track of the status of all of the um the strategies and the goals and the
actions that were taken on the original master plan that was um a 2015 to 2025 master plan and those 10 years really flew by quickly I'll tell you but um we do and in particular the open um the
open space and recreation plan committee which kind of extracted their plan from the master plan which identical plans but they extracted a more detailed plan from the master plan and they to far as I know to this day still meet monthly
and update every goal and strategy on their plan and have continued to do so. I'd also say that if I mean if I brought my huge paper copy of the implementation schedule from our original plan, you'd see that probably 85% of what we started
was um was either completed or is still ongoing. Other things were deemed not so important or situations changed along the way and different uses were taken. But it's been um it's been very well executed upon and I think that we can
look at a lot of the the um the major moves that we've made in town and and um rely on the master plan. It also gives us a basis for um for just for direction and whenever whether we're thinking about you know establishing an RFP for a
particular property or where to put a facility or or what's really important what kind of housing we really need because we also updated our housing production plan. These are really critical documents that have been well researched, well discussed, well thought
out, um with a lot of expertise behind them and it's just a wonderful um document to use as a guideline. So um I'm very pleased. Thank you very much Carlos and everyone else on the committee that put in so much time. Um
I'm very proud of this and proud of the whole um committee and our community development and town planner as well. So thanks for that. >> Thank you Angela. >> Thank you. >> Does anybody have uh any questions
either for Carlos or or Barzy? Everyone >> Yeah, I have a kind of a ongoing question about the implementation committee part of it. That's not something we had back no >> back then. Right. >> Um >> it it's more in line of how do you
suggest going you know >> finding the right representation um of members on that potential committee and understanding that everyone's got different priorities. Some that I'm sure are strongly in favor of one thing and
strongly in favor of another thing. How do you how do you see other communities that have gone about it to balance those to give recommendations? >> Well, I'll let Carlos um pipe in on that as well, but um my recommendation having trying to you
know, struggle through this in the past. It's it's it's definitely a lot of work you need in the you can't we've tried to do it peacemeal. It was really hard to be you know running around to Gino and running around to different committees and trying to get us but luckily I you know worked very closely with Marsy and
we we connected on so many of the different topics that were in here. Um, and you know, I had a lot of help from other people to try to keep up. And like I said, open space carried their own weight, which was amazing because it touched on many different topics, not
just open space, but um, you know, cons conservation and recreation and a lot of other a lot of other areas. So, um, in any event, I would look to the individual sections that we cover. So the the main topics that we're covering
here um and and identify who are you know who are the people most likely to be involved in these projects. Is it DPW? Is it you know you know um conservancy? Is it the planning board? Is it, you know, if if it's something that says, you know, um,
uh, devise new zoning to cover this or that strategy and this, you mean clearly it would be the planning board and the you members maybe members of the select board that would want to be involved in that, but any kind of, you know, zoning would uh, recommendation would ultimately come from us. So I think it
makes sense just to look at the different areas and and think about who are the constituencies that really would play into this and then look to members from those constituencies and put together a committee based upon that.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. I just want to say to Wayne for this evening we are looking at so obviously this was presented to us. I think the planning board, we're looking for the planning board to adopt the plan, then the select board to endorse the plan, and then the implementation
could be early fall or sometime around or midfall where we can really think more constructively about what it looks like and how it runs. And you know, I think your point is well taken that >> while yes, you are looking for folks who care about the topics in the master
plan, you're also looking for them to be champions of the master plan and not their own topics, >> right? That's a >> that's the tough balance that he's talking about. Um, >> so I agree that can be hard. >> I can say that we didn't have that experience, right, at all. Um, I think
there was a lot of and, you know, Tanya could I don't know if she's still here, but she could definitely speak up to this. I mean, there's definitely a discussion, you know, during these meetings about, you know, well, should that really, you know, because everything changes. It's fluid, right? So, you put together it's not, you know,
it's not concrete. It's something that is is very substantial. But if you're looking at three different actions that you want to take, I mean sometimes just logic and timing and circumstance will dictate what needs to come first and what needs to change and circumstance,
you know. So, I mean, it's it's normal to have discussion over it. I do not recall ever having a problem with someone insisting that this doesn't belong. The should not be here. We're changing it. were getting rid unless it was by, you know, mutual agreement
because it just wasn't relevant anymore for some reason. So that's been my experience. >> That's great. >> Yeah. >> Um I will I will plug open space because they follow a very similar they do >> um pattern to the uh planning uh I'm
sorry to this how the sequence of prioritization and action happen on their board and they are meticulous. They are >> and they, you know, they have all of their options 2.001 and they they say where they've gotten on that and then they move on to the next one.
>> It is it's remarkable. >> Pretty incredible the amount of work you do. So, just to plug all the hard work you guys are Thank you. >> Um, so if anybody I mean I don't know where we want to go with this. I'm happy to consider um you guys have to adopt it
before we endorse it. I have a motion. you don't have it in front of you. I can >> Okay. Um but if if folks are ready, we this won't be the last time we're talking about this. This is the gateway to this conversation, right? >> Oh, there's public comment. Thank you, Laura. Thank you. >> Um this is a public hearing, so there is
public comment, so please >> Great. >> Hi folks, Marao. Um I sat on the committee and I just wanted to say thank you to Carlos. I I learned so much. I thought it was really really interesting. Um and and his team was
fantastic. Uh two quick points. I will say there were three public meetings that were pretty weakly attended. Uh very poorly attended. So I kind of will point that out only because public comment tonight was so robust and there's, you know, obviously everybody
has so many interests and we want everything to to land in a positive way for our community. But, um, showing up and attending is is really part of it. Um, so so I'll I'll kind of give that plug, but I'll also just say if
everybody on the board could read the in the survey, the comments, they're detailed. They're, you know, the people took the time. So may they may not come to public comment, but they really took the time to, you know, write those detailed comments. Um, and I think that
they all really, you know, need to be read by by folks who can make changes and um, just be aware of people's thought processes. So, I think that that's um, a really valuable point. So, thank you. It was great serving on it and and again, Carlos was uh, was really
a terrific guiding light. I wasn't quite sure how that process would work, but it was um, it was it was it was a wonderful learning process. So, thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Real um real quick too, we just you know obviously the the team with Mars and
Christa were um terrific, but also I just want to give a quick shout out because Marissa started it so and she was wonderful at the beginning too. >> Thank you >> to kind of follow up on Morris comment. I think one thing that was really interesting and that her comment kind of
really uh emphasizes the survey responses. uh MAPC as part of their budget I I believe did paid Facebook advertising to get some of the survey responses and it was an interesting way to collect people's feedback in kind of their own atmosphere on their own time and it was uh just I
mean I remember seeing it I was on the committee and I remember seeing be like oh wow I didn't know that was going to show up in my Facebook newsfeed. Um, but to her point, it collected some interesting feedback from people you're not likely to see coming with public comment. >> So, diving into those responses is insightful from audiences we may not
normally hear from in public meetings. >> How do you know if there are Swampscout residents >> if it's coming from Facebook? Yeah, [laughter] >> Carlos might be able to answer that more than I will, but >> so it's g it's a there's a geo fence.
Um, and it's by IP addresses. >> So I your IP address has to hail from Swans, >> right? Yeah. >> Only people in Swans were seeing the ad. >> Okay. >> But the level of detail that some of these comments got in, I mean,
>> yeah. Yeah. >> Well, if it took you 76 minutes to answer, I don't I hope I mean >> it took a long time. They were very verbose. >> A mother tab. >> Yeah. >> I just want to add Can I add one more? >> Please, you may. >> Yeah. So, Ruth Davidson 207 Humphrey, I
just want to say I really appreciate that you do those surveys because as someone who wants to participate but can rarely get in here, I feel I pay attention to those surveys. So, Oh, that's great. >> Good. Thank you. >> Good to know.
[snorts] >> All right. So, it looks like that's the end of public comment. If there are no I think we've determined there are no questions, so we are ready when you are planning. >> I I think I just say one more thing. I think for the general public, they may not realize what we're looking at. It's 250 pages long.
>> Yes. I mean, just to give the general public a sense, it's even long, you know, when you add in all the rest of it. Yeah. >> And it's really well laid out. Very Yeah, thank you, Carlos. It is really the layout is excellent. I think I've told you this before, but I find it really easy to
>> to move through it. >> It's actually very readable, even though it is quite that long. If you're looking on a specific topic or you have interest in a specific area, if you want to just approach the plan for that specific topic, >> I find it's it's colorful, it is readable, it's approachable, it's not
like a stuffy sort of um >> consultant based report >> that we've seen in the past. So, it's very well done. >> So, that being said, would you >> shall I make a motion? >> Okay. Um, let's see. So, I move that the
Swampscott Planning Board adopt the Swampscott Master Plan 2035 dated June 2026 as presented this evening pursuant to Mass General Laws Chapter 41 section 81D and direct staff to publish and
maintain the adopted plan as the town's official master plan to guide future planning policy and land use decisions. >> Is there a second? Second. All those in favor? >> I >> wonder this.
>> Yes. And we have Oh, there we can clap. That's a lot of hard work. Thank you very much. >> Absolutely. >> There we have we do have a motion for the select board to endorse. So >> I move that the Swampscott Select Board endorse the Swampscott Master Plan 2035
dated June 2026 and recognize the plan as a community developed framework intended to guide future policy discussions. capital planning, budgeting, grant pursuits, and municipal decision-making through the year 2035. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> I.
>> Very good. >> Thank [applause] you very much. Thank you. >> We should need to dissolve. Yeah. Uh motions out the public hearing. >> Motion to close. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I motion to adjurnn. >> All right. All those in favor?
>> I. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Thank you Kristen and Marzy for all your work also. Thank you and Carlos. Thank you as well. >> Thank you everyone. >> So will there be a recommendation on um like a future committee in the fall?
Then we'll have planning or in conjunction between staff and planning >> to figure out what direction we'd like to go in to make sure that this isn't just something that lives on a shelf but reads and continues. >> Yeah. Especially with our new CPA committee in town, which came as a direct result of the Swampscott 2025
master plan. Y >> I think that implementation committee will be helpful as they consider their budget priorities. >> Absolutely. That's a great great point. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay, so we will move on to discussion and possible vote for the
entertainment license for uh Swamps Center for Performing Arts. This is the third time this has come up on our agenda and as oh you may remember we had some questions come up last time so we wanted to table it to make sure
that you could answer some of those questions just so we were all on the same page. Um, please >> I I just want to point out that uh the proponent had distributed uh via Marzy this this evening some written
documentation, but in speaking over the last week or so uh with him, you know, I highlighted that the board uh and the community worked hard to get liquor license side into the queue to get moving as quickly as possible. And um
there were some questions that remain this evening um that I think you know he would be happy to address and it may might be good if you all have things that you would like to start with or we can turn it over for just a brief statement. I'm not not really sure which way the board would like to go to start. Um >> I just have a quick question on the
liquor license. Is um Jenny Armeni involved in this? Does she have it? And >> yes. >> Yeah, the notification has gone into the state and we've let her know. >> Okay. I can make a brief statement if you want. >> You're welcome to. Yes,
>> sure. Um, first of all, we have to stop meeting like this. My girlfriend's getting very jealous [laughter] of what I'm doing on Wednesday nights. [clears throat] But, uh, I do want to say, uh, that I really appreciate the expeditious way that you handled the
liquor license and the victular license. Thank you very much for that. I also want to add that uh we have been uh very clear about uh uh entertainment being the foundation of our business model and it's uh vital to what we're doing. Um we
are after all a performing arts center. Um that said, we are empathetic to the town's concerns over noise, crowd control, and parking issues. And I'm here to answer any questions on that. Um, and you do have the report that I gave to Marzy, and that's kind of a
overview of what our plans are to handle entertainment, what type of entertainment we'll have, and uh, [clears throat] and how it will be handled. Excuse me. Uh, we're not going to be a roadhouse. We're not going to need Patrick sees at the Swam Center of the Performing Arts.
So, we want to make sure everybody realizes that. Uh we are already in conversations with nationally recognized entertainers to have ticket events by the fall of 2026. In order to attract this caliber of entertainment to the town of Swampscott, these professional
organizations require the same professionalism of us. That includes providing professional sound engineers, a safe and welcoming environment, on-site security, crowd control, and parking lot attendance. On the nights when these ticket events are not scheduled, the venue is being
prepared to host community functions that could range from events as simple as family birthday parties, fundraising events for the town sports teams, dance recital, corporate events for some of our local businesses, and things in conjunction with the Chamber of Commerce.
All of these events will work in the within the parameters of our hours of operation and be managed by the professionals on our staff. With regard to noise issues, uh the production of our showroom at the Dory restaurant will be being designed by Michael Dennis. He's here to my right. Some of you may
know Michael as he's the stage and production manager for the Lynn Auditorium as well as having a lifetime resume in theater and production that stretched from Boston to Hollywood. Michael's a true professional. He's we he's already uh in the works. Um,
lastly, I've been spending a lot of time at the Hawthorne property, as I'm sure everyone can imagine. And the more time I spend there, the more I'm amazed at uh the genius of Anthony Athenus, who in my opinion designed a perfect restaurant,
function facility, and entertainment venue. I mean, he he really knew what he was doing. It's also obvious that aside from its aesthetic beauty, Mr. Athenus was very cognizant of using building materials that would create a virtually
soundproof environment in the building. In fact, when I crossed the street the other night to get ice cream at Papos, it occurred to me that there will never be any kind of noise coming from the performing arts center that could possibly come close to the noise being generated by the traffic on Humphrey
Street. Thank you. Um especially when a motorcycle goes by. Um, so in conclusion, I just want to say that the Swampscott Center for the Performing Arts plan on being a great neighbor to all the businesses and
residents of Swampscott, and our doors will always be open to comments and suggestions by the community when it comes to making things even better. >> Thank you. [applause] >> Oh, shucks. >> All right. Are you the com first comedy
act that will be on the stage? >> No. If I give Michael the microphone, the host will come down. >> Um, well, thank you for that. And I think there were a couple of specific questions that we had sort of left open from last meeting. So, if members would like to, you know, if you haven't
received answers on those, if you'd like to ask them now, that would be >> Sure. >> I just had a couple questions. So, at the last meeting, we had some concerns from neighbors or people who live in the area about um sound leaving the building or emanating the the building or the property line. Um clearly you have the right sound engineer helping you out. Um
but just curious, I know you operate another restaurant in in one of our neighboring towns. Um just curious that has a busy parking lot that has a busy atmosphere. I've been there a bunch. It's a great place. Um I'll give you a plug for that. Um but what's your experience been like there? How do you manage sound there? Because it's not dissimilar. big parking lot out back in
a relative. >> Well, we we definitely we definitely have plans in place. We've been there six years now. So, we uh we we know how to control the crowd. We know how to control the parking. There are certain times in the night when the managers know when to close all the windows so that the sound doesn't affect the
community. We've had very very little complaints or any problems at that at that venue. >> Perfect. Okay. And is are you have similar sound mitigation strategies that you employ there that you'd employ here in terms of you know I don't know decel measurements
you do for your sound engineers there or something of that? >> No, not really. We're actually just taking it to another level in Swam Scott. It's >> that going to be a bigger room. >> Yeah. >> And a bigger stage. So we need a more uh professional >> uh situation addressing the the sound
>> and engineering the sound. Usually what happens at at the Beacon is uh bands can come in and play through our house system, >> but you don't really need a sound man. >> So uh the the the room is kind of self-regulated by the size of the system. So you don't really need a sound
although some bands do bring soundmen. >> Okay. So >> and women the acts you're planning to bring to the uh Swans Center for the Performing Arts pretty much will all have their own sound engineer, sound tech that'll be responsible for that. >> Yeah. No matter who they are, they will be required to have a sound person
present. >> Perfect. Okay. >> Definitely. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Ray, when you were here on was it June 3rd, I specifically asked you um if you'd be able to keep the sound and any noise on your property. And at that
time, you said yes, you'd be able to comply. And in the past, we've have had issues with some of the merchants in town and we've had agreements that they could keep the um sound on their property and sometimes there's a little slip, you know, and it gets hopefully
get corrected, but is that still the case? >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. >> Definitely. >> Could you remind me again what your hours are that you're anticipating or planning for? Well, it's if you're talking about when we're going to specifically have
entertainment, it's very difficult to to say to give specific hours because there could be something happening on every night of the week. So, what what we can say is that we're going to operate within the parameters of our of our working hours, which is 11:00 am to 1:00
am. But I would say typically, if you're talking about maybe a Thursday, Friday, or a Saturday night, >> and our and our say our license to close is 1, I'd want a band to be finished at about 11:30, maybe 11:45, and make sure everybody's out the door no later than
12:30. >> Okay, >> that would be the plan. Okay. >> Anyone else? >> And is there any plan to utilize the deck space at all? >> Not right now. >> Okay. >> Not right now. There is one section of the deck on the first floor, right?
>> That uh we're waiting on finalization from the architects. >> Okay. >> And the engineers to say yes, it's okay. But even in that case, even if they okay it, I'm going to put kind of a maximum capacity of maybe 20 people out there, right? >> And also with no tables,
>> just kind of a lounge type situation out there. I had a Ronda Cheers. >> Would there be music out there? >> Uh you won't you won't hear it >> anything? No. >> No, you won't hear anything out there. That's just a place to go out and relax and enjoy the view. Okay. >> No dining unless it's just something
casual they can sit with. Yeah, I think I brought that up originally because the ocean can be tricky, right? The way the noise bounces off and sometimes, you know, although you're keeping it inside from the front of your building where your entrance is, it's carrying out to sea.
>> Mariel might hear it at her house. So, >> Marilyn does hear it at [laughter] >> Yeah, we'll hear >> we can definitely keep that door closed whenever there's any kind of entertainment. The whole the whole environment will be sealed. >> Okay. Are you going to be using the upstairs at all? This totally unrelated to your
license. I'm just totally curious. >> The upstairs, we're planning on having the comedy uh club upstairs. >> Cool. >> At some point. We're working on that now. >> Cool. >> Nick's Comedy Stop. Give him a >> And then one other question. I think it
came up in public comment. Um was it the Maria's catering? Is that >> that's a separate separate separate? >> Yes. And we had asked this last time if each individual subtendency was going to be getting [clears throat] their own licensing. This had come up last meeting. >> Um so uh I think that was the catalyst
for Maria's filing for a vitillers on a entertainment license because they are their own business inside of their business. So they they would need their own license permitting. >> Okay. separate separate public hearing or separate >> uh it is there's >> it's a common vic under
the entertainment entertainment but there's no public I mean it's on the consent agenda because they're only asking for indoor >> background music >> they're not asking they're not >> they're just asking for performances background music >> so just just to give an example Cindy's an entertainment license because there's a TV on
>> right >> so like that's [clears throat] the it's sort of ambient music indoor music type of thing >> so That's why she has an entertainment license >> here because of that. Okay. >> Yes. It's a speaker for ambient music is the purpose. >> So if they have a TV on, they need to have a entertainment license.
>> Yes. >> This came up in December when we did the renewals. >> Yes. >> Do you mind if uh Michael Dennis made some comments? >> Sure. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> He's been here for so long. I feel bad. >> You don't feel bad. Um thank you by the way. um to answer the soft questions
that have been asked about the sound. Um fortunately, how I've designed this space to be the sound will be generated not towards the front doors out to the parking lot. It logically can't do that. The stage is actually as you walk
through the main doors. You have to go into the property and then go to the left. There'll be seating, round tables, and structure depending on if we're doing a concert or if we're just playing background music. Most of it will be
background music for the hours until the acts that have been hired start playing. And in my career, we don't really start playing the headliners until about 8 8:30 and
they usually wrap up in 2 hours at least. No more. I don't know many headliners that would do that. But all of that sound is generated from behind brick wall and the serving area which is
protected from the front doors. I walk the space. I'm 150 ft from the front door to the downstairs edge on the property. And there's only one way to bring sound into that. I'm not going to filter sound through the building
because there's a piano player on the other side of the wall. And then there's a whole section and Nicks will be upstairs generating comedy or whoever we get to do the comedy. We can't I need to have a a an excellent balance between
somebody enjoying a dinner and having a conversation with their family. Um, and I'm very cognizant of that just to let everybody know what my dream is for the the fact that it's a performing arts
center. It needs to be able to be a loose coat and we need be to be able to change at, you know, the staff, my crew needs to be able to change um daily. So, so it could be anybody from Paul Anka to
Johnny Ray could and anything in between and your kids can perform on that stage if they really really want to. So, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay. >> Motion to approve. >> One additional question. >> Wayne's got the last question all the
time. >> All the time. Um I I I just want to make sure that and maybe it's a silly question, but a lot of places like in theaters, they have double doors specifically to hold the sound in. I don't know if that's an issue if the doors stay open and you have a band
playing. I just want to make sure that is that is that an issue that we would be expecting to receive complaints about? >> The double doors will be closed. >> I don't think so. I'm scared. Okay. >> Yeah, they'll be closed. >> Double doors. >> There are double doors. >> There are double doors. That's why I'm asking. >> Oh. Oh, okay. Sorry. >> I want to confirm. I say confirmation. >> The fourth door and then into the vest
[clears throat] building. There's a second set. >> That helps control the crowd, too. >> Great. >> Thank you. >> Okay, Daniel, I believe I heard a motion. >> Yeah. Motion to approve. >> All right. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> All right. All in favor of approving the um where are we? The entertainment
license for the Swamps Center for Performing Arts. >> I I thank you very much. >> Thank you very much for everything. >> Good luck. Thank you. Good luck. [applause] >> We got a good Wednesday act for you right here if you're in the market. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Thanks, Charlie.
[laughter] >> All right, we're going to move on because we are here all night um to discussion and possible vote on the Hawthorne RFP. And we are going to start with >> um hopefully Nick's going to provide us
with a little timeline, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay, you guys can stay. This is going to be riveting. I promise. >> No, >> run while you can. >> Oh, no. Don't [laughter] grilled cheese. >> A grilled cheese. >> That sounds nice.
>> It's soggy by >> the the idea that I will be really brief and turn this back over to you all. I just wanted to highlight some of the discussion as I sort of recalled it from the last meeting. Um the things that we wanted to talk about and I will next time make that font a little bit bigger.
Uh >> the timeline I know it's it's bad. I apologize. It looked fine on my computer. Exclusive versus inclusive drafting which is the idea of you know do we want to say a particular idea or a particular plan is just not acceptable. We don't even want you to hear it or do
we want to sort of be as open as possible? And then the other discussion is the scoring rubric which really those two go together but it's just something that I wanted to highlight. Um this again doesn't look great on this little screen on the big screen now but in short this shows the Hadley hotel
timeline that was laid out in the RFP. It's roughly a six-month process from the date at which we posted it to the date at which the award was made. The there was you know it was posted there were tours for 6 to 8 weeks. Um questions were due. the the town had two weeks to answer them and then there was
a month before the final proposals were due back to the community. Um there were presentations 5 weeks later uh of the finalists that were selected and then you know as I as you show here there was negotiation February 24 and getting into
the final agreement. This was how it was originally laid out in March of 2024. So the idea is it's 24 25 weeks from the beginning to the end. Um so looking at this I think it gives you ample time to have a robust discussion at a number of meetings about which way you want to go
on the drafting. Um the other things I just want to highlight here are you know we we really do need to land the plan on that goal of when you want it posted and then we really can give you a calendar that says this is when we as staff can commit to getting things in front of you for review and feedback. This is when we
could do a public meeting or public information session where it's, you know, community development, myself and whoever else is involved. Um, but that's a really important step for us to be able to build a calendar for you like where would you like it to be at the end and then we'll build backwards. So that gives you your your schedule for
discussions. Sorry. Thank you. Um, and then the other question that I just want to put on the table, doesn't need to be answered tonight, but Ted had mentioned it is around the idea of professional support to ensure that the quality of the responses are what we're looking for. And looking at like the the RFP for
Hadley had like the website with the drone footage and >> and all of that, we could certainly take a crack at that, but a professional would do a better job uh working with us, I think, and it would allow us to get the best possible outcome. So, not a decision for tonight. It's something that I'll continue to highlight as you
all have these deliberations. Um, but I I just I wanted to lay that out there. So, I we're going way too far. >> Not yet. >> Not there yet. This is where I meant to be. So, these are the things that we that I really thought you wanted to have a discussion about tonight. So, it's timeline. It's a six-month roughly
window. Um, but you all really need to deliberate on how you would like it to be drafted because that's that 30% that we talked about that is really up to you all. It's not the part that's here is the property as described, here's the community as we you know, it's the it's
the really important stuff um that you all need to make some determinations on and begin that deliberation tonight, how you want to draft it and the ideas around scoring. And with that, I'll turn it over to you all for discussion. >> Thank you, Nick. So I think we could if
we start with the timeline conversation if we we have Swanson Scott Center for Performing Arts leasing the site until >> the end of June of 2028 >> 6 of 2028 and I feel strongly although it's up for
discussion of the board that we conclude this before we lose our tenant so that we would have a purpose um no period of just open uh building and we would not have to go back to town meeting >> for extensions because I think they made it pretty clear that that's not what
they're interested in. >> Um they sort of gave threw us a little bit of a bone to allow us to even do a short-term RFP. So let's not abuse that privilege. So if we are working back from uh say we give a buffer of a couple months, if you start
at four April of 2028 and you work backwards for six months, which is what this process give or take might take, uh you are looking at an RFP being put out inve. So, we really do have um and we could
deliberate till, you know, maybe through the summer about all of the items in the RFP that would give town staff three months to actually >> either hire a consultant or something like that which would envision what we've spoken about here and really build. We can obviously truncate that
timeline if we wanted to. >> Um but >> the whole point of asking that question was to work backwards to figure out are we talking about this in two meetings? Are we talking about this in six meetings? Are we like how are we approaching it? >> The the timeline you just laid out. Um sorry I'm looking at my calendar so I'm
trying to understand. >> Was that having the RFP out next fall 2027? Is that what you said? >> So that was having it out in October of 27. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Why the runway of 15 months? >> Right. We're 2026 now. Am I
>> right? Okay. >> Sorry. I'm I'm getting in my own head here. Um why do you think we need a runway of 15 months? We don't. >> I think she was that was the >> She's just back. Even if we even if we went all the way talking about this for a year, we could
still be >> just back and see how long it took us. >> More for the public's knowledge to understand transparency in the process like even if we went from a worst case scenario and we couldn't agree on anything. >> Sure. Um, >> okay. Sorry, I'm late to the purpose. >> Obviously, I think we should put together something much faster and we
should get it out there and we should elevate even maybe the >> So, for the Hadley, we had a very specific purpose, right? And we had a consultant who managed it who whose only job was to uh to find people within that topic, right? We had a hotel consultant
who was able to leverage those connections. I think this is going to be far different. So I I think it begs the question of if it's open longer if if um because it won't have even if we implemented everything that
the Hawthorn news committee said it wouldn't have every a pinpoint one sole purpose to focus on. So you'd be asking people to think very creatively and intelligently about the parameters we gave but we're not saying like you must do X like we said you must answer us
with a hotel. Mhm. >> Um, so it makes more sense for this to be a little bit longer of a of a runway. >> Um, >> well, the the Hadley actually had a longer runway and the what you're saying is it was 6 months with the when we actually focused on the RFP. Sure.
>> But with the Hadley, prior to that RFP, you have to remember we had a committee. Um, we had multiple recommendations on exactly what to do and then the select board had to, you know, we had to work pretty hard as far as figuring out exactly what was our final decision on
what we wanted to put in there and the final decision was a hotel versus affordable housing, you know, community space, this and that. So, it was a much longer runway than the six months. So, >> right. And I think some of that work we've already done, right? So, we've created the Hawthorne committee. they've
come back they've come back with a um detailed recommendation um we've gone we've already hired a consultant we've gone through some troubleshooting there and so now we're at the other side of it and I would say we're sort of to a similar place where Hadley was and I think that's the point
Nick is trying to make like from this point if it were Hadley it would have been approximately 6 to 8 months >> so and I think it's been really clear to us that the town wants to see action >> whatever [clears throat] that looks like whatever direction that ends up being. I
just don't think we can sit and kick the can. I think it's definitely hard decisions all around, but it's on us to do that and that's what we're here for. And I think that delaying it or, you know, dragging it out any longer, I
think um it's just not what people want, right? I think we've sat on it for a long time or previous elect, however you want to describe it. Yeah, I think it's, you know, time to really decide what it is. >> Well, you know, >> yeah, I think this comes in stages, right? In terms of developing any type
of project plan, it's the, uh, you know, we've had the input from the community, um, dialing back into what that input is is what's going to be important for us to be able to prioritize. And then drawing that the envelope of choices, >> right, the framework of choices that we
have, the areas of do not go past here, stay within here. slowly we're going to have to kind of build that well not slowly but with with meticulous thought we're going to need to kind of build that frame in till we get some focus. So I would you know I think that's the I
think we have plenty of time not in a not in a bad way because I don't want to wait till the end at all. I want to do I want to start this now. But I think we have the right balance of time that we don't have to be forced into >> right. We're not rushing >> rushing illdecisions but can be thoughtful about it.
>> Yeah. I think the only thing that comes to mind when I think about the timing as playing devil's advocate is you get a uh RFP respondents. We do not have a tenant free space until >> June of 28.
So now an LDA can be because we've already leased it to the Swans Center for Performing Arts. So >> we so and they're making significant investment and you know we have a contractual obligation to allow them to utilize it till that time. >> So if you were to have respondents who
like we would just want to be very clear in the RFP that it's not vacant and that it's there's a tendency there. There could be due diligence that happens coside coinciding with >> tenency. So, I think, you know, we can alleviate some of those problems, but
you don't [snorts] want to be so far in advance that then there's 12 months of them waiting for us to have our tenency, you know, elapse. Um, >> well, I think if it's clearly stipulated that we obviously are leasing it till
June 2028, I mean, it's there's really no confusion there if the if you're stating that, right? Um, you know, but again, I think we when we asked for this short-term lease of town meeting, we said we would update and we would, you
know, basically get moving. So, I don't I just >> want to be cognizant of that fact. I don't want to rush. I'm not saying rush, but I'm saying make substantial progress towards >> what exactly we're looking for. And we owe that to Nick. We owe that to everyone to give direction on how this
moves because if it if we don't then it doesn't move >> and there's there's also going to be some level of financing contingencies that are going to have to go into a development of this size that will take as we're seeing with the Hadley substantial amounts of time. >> So the worst case scenario that I could see is you know the Swamps Center for
Performing Arts vacates a space then we still have nine months of financing financial contingencies that may or may not happen and then we're sitting there with a potential dilapidated build. Well, at that point it won't be flapped. It'll be very nice, but we're sitting there with a vacant building um that may
or may not fall through depending on financial contingencies. So, I think there's a we got to try and get to the Goldilocks of figuring out the right sweet spot in terms of not too far out, but close enough where we're not >> left with a vacant building while somebody's going through 12 to 18 months of finance. So let's let's evaluate then
if that backing the time out is in what that time is in terms of having to get an LDA the financing what is a reasonable amount of time that we could expect six to nine months. >> Well what was the finance contingency for Hadley? Was it >> we're still in it
18 months? >> Jesus. >> I mean >> there was a 90-day due diligence period and then there was an 18month financing due diligence period. >> How long did it take to negotiate the the LDA? A long time. How much? >> Long time. >> How long did it take to negotiate the LDA? >> Oh, you guys. >> It was signed in >> It's not that long.
>> Well, it was um >> It was awarded in the spring and signed in August, I think. Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, >> yeah, it was not that long in the scheme of >> Okay. Between everything we just discussed though, 4 months plus 90 days plus 18 months, we're talking >> saying working backwards.
>> We're not talking 24 months. >> We're not collecting income during their finance phase, right? >> No. >> Okay. So, we're holding on to it one way or the other. Uh-huh. Yep. >> And we're paying for it. >> So, we've got a lot of time, but we don't have a lot of time, >> right? >> So, >> yeah.
>> So, we're all right. I mean, why not shoot for October? This October >> to open the RFP >> to have it out. >> Not to Well, I don't know. I'm How long is it? Let's Now, let's work from the
front. We work from the back. Let's work from the front. So, how long will it take us to establish the priorities, build that framework >> and a lot of conver and some good conversation? >> You're asking the same question from the other side. >> I am from the front. >> And so, >> so just say you Sorry.
>> I mean, from our standpoint, we were trying to make sure you all knew where the guardrail wasn't the end. >> So, >> I just think if you if you work backwards, sorry, I just did the math. So, if you work backwards and you say there's a a 12-month financial due diligence period, which you can
stipulate that in the RFP to say we're not going to have more than 12 months of financial due diligence. >> So, if you go from 628, that brings you to 627. And then there's a 90-day due diligence period. Could be less than that. That from when it's signed. So, that's 327. And then you it
takes 6 months to to negotiate and uh to to pick somebody. Well, even if you said, say you said, so you're talking about September of 26. So, we're talking about, you know, really only having until probably August, September, you want early fall, you want something to go out this year
so that when you're working backwards, you're sort of lined up with the end of the short-term lease being the end of the financial approximately the end of the financial due diligence. So that then you're starting one income stream is >> around >> replacing around the same time as one is
being lost >> of course. >> So I think that's the approximate amount of timing. So maybe by the end of the summer you're looking for an RFP for us to come to a consensus on an RFP >> which makes sense because then at you know winter town meeting or fall town meeting we can give an update about
where we are right and it's logical timeline. we could have more definitive answers for, you know, the people that have put their trust in. >> So, let's do this. >> Say something. So, >> you're saying by the end of the summer to have an RP? You're talking four meetings.
>> Well, so we would have two meetings in July. >> Meetings in August. We could have additional meetings every week. [snorts] >> Well, that's great. Whatever it >> takes all summer. So I I want to one of the views that I have been kind
of gathering is that what we're seeing here with with the performing arts center is it's a pilot and I think there's going to be valuable information that comes from that whether or not you know the risk obviously there's a risk taker from the the perspective of the
business but there's these four quadrants that I kind of imagine I've expressed this in in public a couple different times but you I'm hoping that they succeed. I'm hoping that the public likes it. They could find out that they didn't succeed and
but the public likes it. Then they could find out that they succeeded but the public didn't like it and then it could be negatives on both. Either way, however this pans out, it's an amazing pilot project for us to be able to understand what the potential is for an
entertainment of some sort on this on this property. how and I think that may affect how we see it as a board just from from the aspect of the reality of it's actually happening right I think
that may gave us that so this space this window assuming that they're starting up pretty quickly will give us some indication and this is in no way saying that we're going to let them go past I'm I'm not supporting or not support not supporting or not supporting it I'm not
even opining on that in terms going past the lease. I'm just saying whether or not this type of project >> Yeah. >> has value in the community, both for the business and for the community itself. And we're going to find out really really quick. >> Wouldn't you say the value So I agree
with your original supposition, but my thought is that the re the value is really to the RFP respondent, not to us. Because a respondent would come in and say, "Look at the response that this place has gotten. That's a great business model. We want to make that long
>> term. And so really when I think about drafting the RFP, I want to think about you know the well the next point whether it is open-ended such that I'm just providing a rubric that says well I
think I want the site to be least verse owned and I think I would rather you know score higher a property that is a lease model versus ownership. >> I am I might negatively do that. I'm not saying that you can't reply with an
ownership model and that allows the respondent to really pave the path forward and prove the business model. Now, whether they use the documentation of the current business, great on them, um whether they tune into these meetings and the realities of what's happening in town this summer. I mean, that's the
respondent you want. Um, but I don't think that it maybe should affect what the foundation is that we have heard from the community thus far from either the Hawthorne Reuse Committee or other committees or the community at large or the original consulting conversation
about what the community says they want. Now, could the Laugh Factory of Swans change the committee I mean the opinions of the community? Absolutely. Um, but they're limited by the by the building and the space on what they could have even started with,
>> right? >> We're not going to limit anybody at all or we have the ability not to limit anybody at all if we choose not to. >> And that and their window of them develop, you know, the RFP goes out, the the the professionals that are coming back and be paying like you said, paying attention to what is actually happening in the community.
>> Yeah. >> And to the business. >> Yeah. Well, from from my take on it is I think what's very critical for us is the entire economic development of that whole channel and also having open space in that area. So we have a couple
variables. One is the parking lot, St. John's parking lot. The other thing is uh having something there that is supportive of the hotel and having the hotel there. So these are really critical. So something might work for a developer. or a developer might come in
and say, "Hey, this is going to be great. This is going to work for me." But it's something that might not work to um enhance the hotel and and enhance economic development coming out of the hotel. Um the taxes we receive from a successful hotel are
>> pretty paramount to what our financial success would be in the entire area. So I think that's really really important for us. I'm just going to circle back to the timeline for a second. Um, I get concerned about trying to have a
RFP launched early fall in that, you know, we talk about needing a little bit wider of a window to collect responses since we're not just looking at one uh use type. >> Um, so if we're going from what was it 90 60 days was the Hadley? No, for the
for which >> the RFP >> for the RFP it was uh six months. >> Six months. >> Six months. Okay. >> It the RFP was >> from start to finish >> the was 90 days. Start to finish was 180 days. >> But the the window was >> getting to the agreement
>> open to submission was 90 days. So, I would get concerned about getting too close to having like, you know, submissions are due Halloween uh Christmas night or something like that because we also have to consider if we're going to market this and trying to market this to the uh development
community and as widespread of a um response community as we we can where we have to also consider the amount of time it takes to develop a marketing plan to get that enacted and that'll that takes runway having >> doing that for a living that takes a lot of runway too. So, I'm getting concerned
of a we've got to get this RFP written in the next two, four, six meetings. And then we've also got to consider if we're going to hire somebody to help market it, and then we've got to find money to pay for it. And then we've got to tell them how to do it. That's a lot to do in six meetings or three months. And um then we're also getting close to
battling with response deadline that comes around the holidays, which is just a little wrench to throw in there. >> So, I I would the response deadline for Hadley was mid December. Mhm. >> So that I I would caution against worrying about that. If it's a good
opportunity, it's a good opportunity. >> Agreed. I'm I'm thinking about more from the marketing perspective of it and them battling to market this at a time when it's going to be uh more costly and more difficult to market. >> And I just want to highlight what we're asking of you all is not that you need
to do everything that you laid out in those six meetings. The majority of that is you all come to a directional decision and we do it and we come back to you and tell you what we've done during our normal full-time work hours
because you all are volunteers and so we'll need the expertise. We will need input on more than one occasion, but I I want to make sure you all are focused on the big decisions that are really important so that you can sort of point us in the right direction to execute on things and bring them back to you >> so that you don't feel like you have to
carry the entire weight in your meetings over the next two or four or six months. >> So, so Ted, in thinking about your timeline, if you ideally had a better timeline, would it mean that the RFP would not go out until a
or >> sorry >> the responses wouldn't be owed back until after 2027 so that you weren't in that sweet spot >> early into 2027 so it gives us the runway to figure out how we're going to build the rubric how we're going to craft the RFP meanwhile figuring out and allowing you know Nick and Marzy and the
team there to figure out how we're going to market it if we're going to need additional paid assistance to market it to the development community like those are two parallel tracks that need to operate independently but one can't really start in detail until the other gets more well thought through. So I
would think you know that the holiday thing is small potatoes but it also plays into that. I would imagine if we can get the details of an RFP worked out by early fall and then at that point that gives us a little bit more legs to develop how we're going to market it to the development community for responses
that puts us closer to Octoberish. Responses after 90 days for that are January which is not unreasonable. Okay. >> Um and at least gets through some of that busy time for media and um gets into a new fiscal year
for for companies that'll be able to have better forecasting for what RFPs are going to respond to. Do do we have I asked this at last meeting regarding the adjacent property, the parking lot, do we
do we ask for an RF, you know, for for a contender for someone who's going to put an RFP together for a with and without option? You could >> thus then if they can come back with a development that makes sense with a with option there becomes
a detailed discussion on how to finance that because it's not free and it's a >> well we need the timeline for that. >> Yeah, >> that's kind of where I'm >> right. So we need the timeline for this >> for the grant for the grant proposal. We
need a timeline for what it would look like in capital what the breakdown is financially. >> I the grant respective to >> the purchase of the property. >> Ah like an incoming grant for money. Yeah.
>> Correct. >> It would be so up to a million dollars grant opportunity to purchase the parcel. >> Oh >> that's what's been discussed. >> Okay. So, um,
yeah, I guess, uh, to more solidify that point, we do have to determine if this is an RFP just for Hawthorne with an asterisk of, wouldn't it be great if we own this adjoining parcel? What's your vision look like? Or
if it is simply like, well, let's just be concerned with what we have in our basket right now. Mhm. >> Um, so >> I think we would have a diffult difficult time as a public entity asking for responses on properties and own >> on a maybe, right?
>> And let's not forget the um Hawthorne committee did draft plans with including potentially having >> the parking lot. So we do have some general idea of what could be there, >> right? Because they did a lot of that
work, a lot of work. and and we have that if we needed to. But I mean, we've been talking about the parking lot for the church for how many years now? So, I don't think we can sit in sit on
that to to form this to start forming this decision. Personally, >> part of there's chicken and the egg. I don't see how we not I mean I think it's I think that I think we have to make a decision on what's happening with that
parking lot because that'll add a significant issue as far as what we're going to do because if we have that parking lot that adds more a significant amount of space which checks a lot of boxes and it it'll
give whoever is going to issue an RFP >> you know you know if we if we can protect open space and add a little bit more open space or do whatever. And then also, you know, have uh, [snorts] you know, businesses and parking that
pretty much gives us everything that we've been asking for that that people have been. So I I think it's really important, >> but we're also asking people to pay more millions of dollars that >> for a lot where they've already given us the authority to purchase a lot for
millions of dollars that we're paying for every single month that sits there. So I just want to be cognizant of what we're asking this town to do. I I'm not sure that there's an appetite for additional spend of that level, right,
for that parking lot by town meeting. At this point, we we we haven't even broached that subject. We haven't even remotely, you know, checked the temperature on that. And I I'm hesitant quite honestly because I can't even tell you what the plan is for X, but yet I want to tell you to buy Y. So here so
here's why I was saying what I was saying before which is exactly because of that is if you had someone who said if I had that I could do X and then it becomes >> right >> an influential reason why we could go about it >> right
>> it could it could it could have economic development opportunity that the number makes sense >> because right now going into it and saying we want to spend X for whatever space that is without a plan >> as a resident I would questioning that too,
>> right? It's hard because, you know, could it potentially I mean, I would have thought that this situation with the parking lot would have resolved itself by now and we would have had a more clear path to either doing it or not. And it just hasn't unfolded that
way. So, I'm hesitant about the amount of time it will take, right, to actually to, you know, figure out if it's a viable option that, you know, that'll I I don't want that to be the enemy of getting something decided about this parcel.
>> Yeah. >> This very important parcel. I don't know. I I respect that, but I also don't want to miss a major opportunity that we're not going to get get again. So, totally. We
also have we have opportunity for a million-doll grant, federal grant. Um, we also have uh the additional monies, the CV, >> CP, >> CPA,
>> CPA money to help um offset. Um, I just think it's an o I think it's an opportunity that we cannot just say, well, we haven't made it happen just yet. Um, let's just go ahead and and
deal with this one property, this one side, the Hawthorn. We haven't been able to clo close it up with the parking lot. So, let's just focus here. I mean, I understand it's going to take a little bit more patience, but in the long run, I think it's a major asset for the entire town long term. I don't know if
it's as much patience as it is, you know, the appetite of people in this town given our current financial situation and the level of frustration that people are dealing with with us owning this property for as long as we have at this point and and failed to do
anything with it. >> I don't think it's just frustration about this property. I think it's like we've cut budgets across the t town departments. We're talking about schools, you know, like not being able to give the schools all they're asking
for. We're talking about other, you know, Tom came forward and spoke today about maintenance of fields and other, you know, we are getting pulled at by every single string available, >> police, fire, I mean, >> and it's not and, you know, if we had the ability to do it all, we would. we
have the appetite to, >> but I just >> will obviously support what the maj majority of the board does and I'm not typically the negative, you know, naysayer, but I I mean, we we bought a $7 million parcel and we some people
thought it was totally going to be open space and some people thought it was going to be a vision that now we likely, although we some of us would like to see it, probably cannot afford to facilitate. you know, a park is very expensive. You
have to upkeep it and it's not what is going to provide substantial in um you know, reoccurring revenue for [snorts] us. And so, we have to be more thoughtful about it. And >> to me, it's hard then to come forward
and say, "Oh, but wait, for just a couple million more, we could have this other piece and we can give you exactly what you asked for." like I don't feel super great about it, but can I see a world where we could try to make it happen? Yeah. And I'm I'm not going to stand in anybody's way to try to do
that, but I just I've been very honest with the board. And >> and I think that to think of CPC at this point >> as like an option for us, I don't even think that's in our purview remotely. >> It's not. The CPC is the community preservation act will create a
committee, right? Committee exists now, right? They will only have $770 something,000. >> No, they'll have double that. >> They'll have two double two years in the first. >> They'll have enough money. They'll have enough money to cover a bond. >> But [clears throat] they have to number of things.
>> Yeah. There's three priorities that they need to hit >> open space >> minimums on, >> right? >> And it's open space, affordable housing, and um historic preservation. >> It is completely outside the five of yours control other than the appointee that you have.
>> Right. as is the grant really. And so in we we as general government would make a um request of them for funding and it would be competing against other priorities that other organizations and other parts of >> right
>> so I I just want to highlight it >> as Doug talked about it as well for different priorities related to open space and development >> times over by now you don't even have the authority to do that >> it is it would be competing with everything else and it would be something that we would submit and advocate for and and ask for support of.
>> So if that's how we're thinking of the funding source for this parking lot, that gives me pause because I don't in my head know that I can count on either of those avenues. Now grants maybe, you know, sometimes we're successful with them, sometimes we're not, right? So
>> how else are we going to afford this parking lot? >> I think we not to totally cut off this conversation, but we are here to really talk about the substance of the Hawthorne RP. understand it's parallel the the >> no pun intended the parking lot is parallel to this conversation. However,
I think there are some foundational things that we are not talking about as far as like actual information that is needed for Hawthorne that we should probably do our best to >> veer back towards. And let's also be really clear, the Noanic Group when they submitted the RFP for the uh the Hadley,
>> the Hadley, >> essentially insinuated that they were buying three commercial properties next to it to combine with a hotel and said, "We have the resources to do this if you would like." >> Right. >> I think we've talked about this project long enough tonight that a developer worth their salt is going to understand
the diverse opinion on the process be made if they could >> correct >> facilitate. Yeah. >> Yeah. The one thing I would say is we shouldn't let the perfectly good be the enemy of the perfect. >> I would hate to delay an RFP and put us in a timeline of potential not having
income because we're trying to do something that may or may not h not happen. >> Meanwhile, I'm not um I am recalling the public comment tonight of the $600,000 for one Salem Street that was ignored and the $3.5 million for the temple property that was developed into
whatever that pro property is. And then all of these things where they're expensive at the time, but a few years later, man, >> would a should have, could have. So those are hard to say at the same time, but we >> kind of have to consider both of them at the same time. >> $10 million to acquire Archer Street and
this property. So >> 100% >> for sure. We were losing open space time after time, missed opportunities. But >> I find it difficult thinking back like this is a once in a-lifetime opportunity. And now I think maybe I'm jaded after all my years on the board, but how many once in a-lifetime opportunities are going to come about in
my six years here? Like it feels a little much, but >> it's all because you're on the board that all >> is it? That's hysterical. [laughter] >> Um, okay. So, do did anybody did anybody have any So, I wrote some things down about just the
RFP itself, like topics that I think we maybe if people don't have thoughts or opinions about tonight, we should think about having thoughts or opinions about very soon. Um, so, you know, the least own preference, like if a respondent is, are we saying like there is no ownership possibility here? Is it just a 99-year
lease? Is it a shorter term lease? If they propose to be owners of the property, would we consider sale as part of it? Um, if you did consider sale as part of it, what would a deed restriction might look like if you didn't want to see certain options on the parcel? Um, do for the question of
residential came up when we presented to town meeting and that was like a very hot button topic. >> Um, so is there and what I have come to understand is that residential might be one of the best ways to get a project like this financed, but can we cap it?
Can we um can we limit it to a square footage where we're saying like we don't want to see more than this or we'd like a response that is something around this. >> Um the >> Can you just ask a clarifying question? >> Yes. What was the language of the Warren article and were there any restrictions
put on it for utility of the land once acquired? >> Mary Alan just asked that question before the meeting and I looked it up and the there is no deed restriction on the parcel right now unlike Adley which there is for um >> a deed restriction for residential um on
that parcel. Angela is going to help me. >> Go ahead. >> Yeah. Um, if you wouldn't mind, I just want to to bring up a couple things that are really important regarding residential on that site. Um, when we first had an opportunity to buy both properties and I was present for all
these meetings. Um, the original developer, Leall came to the town, sort of a pre-application review. Mars, you remember, she was there. They came and they put up two slides and one was a horseshoe shaped mixeduse sort of fancy
development with about 64 condo units on the Hawthorne site and the other one was about 90 units at the Glover oh sorry about 90 units at the Glover site. um both of which you know we said um
initially just said no to but the whole idea was I mean we didn't want to see condos sitting on the Hawthorne site this was not just we it was me and community development and there were a couple of members of the select board who are no longer on the select board
now that were with us um and in any event the whole reason that we bought the property was to prevent a residential development from going there. That's the reason if you go back and look at the purchase and sale agreements, the agreements with
Leot when they got Leot to drop their bid for the Hawthorne property and just buy the Glover property when we agreed to zone the Glover to reszone a 40R at the Glover to make it um available to
Leot McCall for 96 units. We did so as a trade so that they would drop the Hawthorne property because we did not want to see residential units there. Um and that we felt that this was again an expense that was being, you know, or
rather an investment for the town. the way it was presented at town meeting, you know, everybody remembers there was, you know, unfortunately a kind of a slide that went up there, but it was presented as we're gonna have open space and there they show like a little small building along Humphrey Street. But
their promise that was made, if we could all go back and watch the video of that town meeting because it's available, was that there'll be no residential, there'll never be residential development here. Um, in our Hawthorne um committee meetings, which I was a
part of, there were um some some of the members, not me, were supportive of residential. I'm very much opposed to it. And I can tell you that on that site, it's a business. It's a B2 zone site. We're as a planning board and as a
planning department, we're trying to get away from allowing commercial properties to be downzoned into residential. We lose money on that. It feels like a quick fix. It's not. Okay? It's a col.
We We all know we've got a split tax rate. It's the worst possible thing that could happen at that site, which is a site that is unprecedented on the coastline of Massachusetts. And that's just a fact that we were able to determine there's no open site like that
any place along the ocean. So bottom line was just one more thing about residential is there is inadequate parking there for residential. And we also made the point that it would take away the sense of ownership of that property by the town. Thank you.
>> I appreciate the We're not going to take public comment, Brian, but I appreciate the historical zoning. >> No, no, no. >> I appreciate Excuse me, sir. Excuse me one moment. If I could just finish my sentence. I appreciate the historical zoning and negotiation background which occurred
when we acquired the property which is paramount to this conversation to make sure we are at the foundation trying to keep in line with that background which none of us were here for because most of this was negotiated right before we joined the board. >> Right.
>> So, thank you for that. Brian, we are not I understand you would like to say something but I appreciate >> Brian please. There would be no comment, especially opinion comment. >> I asked the planning board background and historic information from a
representative from the planning board. >> I am not asking for you to comment right now and I would appreciate it if you wouldn't mind respecting that. >> I can respect the rules. >> Great. Thank you. We are moving on to commentary by the board then. So if
there is additional commentary that was misinformation, >> then you can join us at public comment next meeting and we can discuss the misinformation. Ryan, >> in three minutes, >> Brian, >> you're welcome to send us all an email like you already have.
>> Okay, thank you very much. >> That was misinformation. >> All right, what's next? >> Okay, so >> it wasn't. Okay. >> So, so are we saying that the planning board would recommend that we do not put residential or anything about
residential in an RFP? Is that what you're saying? >> Has the planning board opined on that? >> Well, that speak for the entire boarding. >> I cannot speak for the entire >> giving us the history. >> Yes. >> Just talking about it from a negotiation standpoint at at the original purchase
of the prop of the parcel. It was meant to be a tradeoff. >> That's right. For Leot McCall for the >> Glover property when that original development was discussed. >> So they said we will drop the residential thoughts at
>> Hawthorne and pick up the Glover, which I think the town felt was much more well suited for residential development over a beachfront um >> location, right? >> Location where it's the mouth of the commercial space, right?
>> Mhm. Um, so that was the context that I was trying to ascertain there. So, thank you, Angela. >> Are you asking So, are you asking our opinion? Are you >> I was just laying out some like some commentary that I sort of thought about. And again, we don't have to necessarily answer any of it or all of it tonight,
but I just thought >> to try and start off somewhere to get the ideas flowing. >> So, can we just like hit the topic lists? Yeah, that's >> and and I think we kind of got into the weeds of I I liked where you were going with this like just get like the broad topic list that we can start to >> so whether or not we should require
municipal parking or not on the space and potentially how much whether or not we require open space and potentially how much and whether that's by square footage or by >> percentage of the property at as a whole um or you know a scope of percentage
right whether we would favor the rem the removal of the building and prefer a new building or whether we would rather see the existing structure remain. Um, you know, what the environmental ramifications might be to keeping that
building or building a new one. Um, if we're looking for I know in the Hadley RFP, we were very specific about the environmental responsibility of the construction at that site. So, if we wanted to keep in line with that, >> um, the street scope consideration, we they talked about that. >> Streetscape.
>> Streetscape. What did I say? Scope. Sorry, I'm thrown off a little. Um the streetscape consideration um and how it lays across with uh if the church parking lot is not developed, how it might look to have that space undeveloped and then the building right
next door. So, how we might consider that and how we would like it to um to work. Um to me, I wrote walkability. I know there's been a big push at Vinnon to make sure that that development is very walkable and very accessible. Um, God bless you. We heard from public
comment about, you know, how much more walkable the community is becoming. So, you know, is that something we want to really focus on and make sure that however it's set up, you know, that we feel like there's a lot of channels to get in and around and that it feels like, you know, we're able to circumn
the whole space through walking. Um, and then synergy to the hotel obviously. So if it's something or and not just the hotel but all the bu the businesses in that area but you know specifically the hotel coming in as you know helping to
keep that vibrancy going in that space. >> Um those are the things that I just wrote down as >> it's a great start. >> Thanks Wayne. >> Appreciate it. >> It's a great start. I I would highlight because the fact that we are
I think there's an agreement between the balance of open space and and business development that we also kind we can almost bisect that at some point and talk about topics of for the open space we would like this type of thing for the
business space and we're not defining what those spaces are but what would we lead towards in the RFP? rate hire her. What would we give more consideration to? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I think we can we can >> Yeah. As opposed to kind of like mapping it all together. You're going to kind of map it right
>> separately and it's two two branches of a tree. >> So with with the development, I think the easiest to not try to program it yourself would be to rely on the planning and zoning work that's already been done. >> Right. >> So it that if you you I assume you want
to speak to the overlay. No, I did not want to speak to the overlay. >> Okay. I >> Well, I won't ask Angela again. >> I would be more than happy to if there's a question about the overlay district, but what I was going to suggest is we don't know what we don't know. Swamp's got a horrible track record as being developers. I think that's pretty well established, especially tonight. With
that being said, I it's hard for us to sit in our chairs and say, "Here's a perfect project. Now, somebody go build it and finance it and come to us and tell us what it what it's going to cost you to to benefit our town." So I think it's very difficult for us to be able to say and expect to
get great and a great breadth of responses that here's the responses we want. By the way, you have to have x percentage of open space, x percentage of buildings occupying. They have to be built this certain way. All sorts of things like that. I very much think we need to have our preferences and our
rubric needs to emphasize the fact that we may not want housing. So you get points on housing. You may we may want this. right weight it to our priorities but I think it's going to be hard >> any hard blocks you know hard lines in the sand are not going to serve us well
in terms of getting the quality of respondents that we want to get >> and we just limit ourselves if we do right so >> there could be and I just want to throw this out there could be a really great idea right >> that has a bunch of residentials there I have no idea and I'm not suggesting that there could be a really great idea that's entirely parkland there I don't
know what I don't know and I'm not going to know what I what these responses are going to be until we see them >> so that's why I'm just suggesting keep as wide a birth as possible, show our preferences in our rubric, >> right? >> And then evaluate what we get. >> So to that end, it, you know, sorry for it to say
>> some open space, some municipal parking or, you know, phrases like that where it's not >> you have to have 10 ft of park space or, you know, nothing definitive or closedended, right? You're looking for more higher level general has to include
a portion. Maybe it's 15% open space, >> right? And the more open space you get, the higher the score. I don't know, something of that nature. >> Has to, you know, be 10% municipal parking ability, >> right? >> Right. >> When we when we issued the Hadley, remind me, did we attach a rubric to the
RFP or did that come after we we put the RFP out? >> I thought it was attached. >> I think we RFP would Oh, I cannot think of one that would not include >> a explanation of how you can anticipate being scored. And so it speaks to your priorities and your values. >> Okay. >> Yeah. [clears throat]
>> So I think the best >> it can be soft to like this is you know >> strongly encouraged encouraged you know like I'm not using the right phrasing but it's like >> we can define it not with a number but with words that again allow for some
subjectivity so that you get a great >> project like Ted's saying that no one at this table is anticipating that reflect priorities. [clears throat] You can you can you can find a way to >> so a great project could be is going to be a great project for whoever wants to go in there. But is it a great project
that's going to support what we need up and down that street especially with the hotel? I mean I can tell you that you know since day one even before day one you know I've been looking at this especially on the finance committee when
we were at on the finance committee long before we even started talking about this. we talked about uh buying the property as a finance comm. I mean this is like 15 years ago that that should have be a goal that we buy this property um the Hawthorne property. So, the and
I'm going to just reiterate again, my number one concern is anything there that's going to support that hotel because the revenue, our tax revenue from the hotel is vital to this town. And, you know, looking at what the need
is for parking down there, um, having housing is going to take away from parking. We lose parking. we we lose the ability to have more commerce going on down there. So, I know that you want to sit down and say, "Hey, let's just have
an open slate, and I can respect that, but >> I'm pretty clear for myself. I I don't want to I personally don't want to sell the property. Um, and I don't want to have housing only because I don't want to take away from opportunity of
commerce." So, can we I think your opinion I'm not judging on the opinions. I'm just from from the framework of how we're going to go about this. I think the the coordination of this group like right this second >> I think let's hit the topics and then we
go down and let's score the topics and discuss >> because because you're ping I just don't want to get off >> y >> on the tangent. We're all passionate about it. Right. >> Yeah. I think that's the right way to handle it. So maybe what we can do is we can uh it is getting late so maybe we
can decide we think these are the 10 topics of importance >> and we don't have to rank them tonight or we don't have to wait them tonight. We can just decide on the topics and then the next meeting we can talk about how what the specificities are of maybe five of them or four of them and then we
can go the next meeting and then break it down a little bit like that so that number one we're not trying to you know do all this at once but also that we're being fair to the community. So if somebody is really wants to come in on one of these topics, they sort of have an idea and not have to attend every
single meeting to >> if we have addition I mean as we're thinking about this if we have additional ones should we submit it to you as chair and then you can bring that forward to the next meeting >> or do you discuss this? So, so we can take the list that we I I just discussed
and and we can submit any additional items to Nick >> and then it we I we can create a um >> checklist of sorts. >> Yeah. Or like a >> scoring >> rubric. We'll start to figure out the scoring >> start to really map this out. Let's get categories. >> So, would you like us to include these
categories just on the agendas going forward? That way, as you're saying, >> yes, >> we're taking them in the order that we list them, whether it's alphabetical or whatever, so that if someone wants to come, they can reasonably anticipate that a handful will be covered. >> Yes. >> In an evening. >> If they're not, they know what's coming at the next
>> all of them on. Exactly. And then and then hopefully from there, we'll have a little better understanding narrowing down to the ones we want to focus on, and then we'll be able to maybe cut them in half. >> They'll just be bullets under this topic on that would be great. >> So, let's start with owned versus leased, right? >> I'm going to read back what I have here.
That would be great. Thank you. >> Sale versus lease, housing, residential or not? >> Y >> um municipal parking, open space, if so, how and what type? >> Y >> um do we value demo? Do we want to keep it and renovate?
>> Right. >> Um >> environment, the environmental responsibility in redevelopment or >> demo and renovate, you know, renovation. >> Um >> you said walkability is a topic, right? I didn't know if that was something you were just saying or >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Streetscape. Streetscape consider
>> streetcape or scope as I said originally. >> Uh streetscape and then synergy with the hotel. >> Yes. >> I would like Humphrey Street. >> Humphrey Street corridor. >> Yes. >> Commercial synergy. >> Mhm.
>> Okay. So that is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 nine. >> Somebody's going to come up with the 10th. We got to have an even number. >> We don't have to come up with it tonight. If something comes up that people think about, we can submit it to Nick and Nick will um will facilitate it. >> I think re-reviewing the the Hawthorne
committee report might as we're thinking about this might have picked up something we didn't. >> Yeah, most of these I took from the Haw Committee report to be fair. Like when I was reviewing it, I was like, okay, these are the topics that they >> talked about at large and this is, you know, where they spend most of their time to get to their conclusions. So
>> without diving into too much detail on it, out of curiosity, what were the environmental considerations for the Hawthorne or Hadley RFP beyond the super stretch ultra building code that we had authorized two years ago? >> Super stretch passive house. >> Passive restraint. >> Oh, it's passive house. Okay.
>> House, right? I said that with authority and I had no idea what that meant, >> but you did big on that being a requirement >> um that they attempt to to the best of their ability to be passive house energy efficient. And so they are attempting to do that
>> even through historical >> um historical >> but was that on the RF was that on the RFP or is that what we just did at the LDA >> just negotiated that but if you recall it was a >> an item that went back and forth. >> Oh my god. In order to if you're talking about
>> cutting down the time of the negotiation the best way you can do that is to put your in the RFP so that it's not it's less negotiable. >> There you go. So >> thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Great. >> All right. So we will continue that
discussion. This is the first of many again and we will move on to discussion and possible vote on the solid waste and recycling contract with Republic Service. >> I have a slide that is tiny so I was just going to read them to you instead because I could barely read them. Um so I wanted to give an update on where we
were. Uh the negotiations are ongoing. We have gotten the red line back from uh Republic. KP has reviewed it. I had a discussion with KP today and we'll be moving forward um with some feedback for
Republic tomorrow and then we also have an operational sort of planning weekly meeting with Dan on Monday. So there'll be two opportunities in the next couple days for this on the public. There's nothing massive. I just want to highlight that you know the the our RFP had a contract included in it. They had
some edits. We you know accepted some and have feedback for others. So on the public information sessions we had our first session on Monday. The idea of doing one at the senior center came up which was a great idea that we had not planned for and considered. We're now planning for that will probably be the first week in July to be honest. We want
to have try to have both a the 96gallon and a 65gallon barrel there because that also was part of the oper the discussion on Monday that I want to share with everyone. We will have a limited number of smaller recycling barrels available. Um we want to be responsive to the fact that folks
have expressed a need for them. Um we will require registration for them. We're trying to manage both the inventory and the usage um with the priority certainly in the beginning when we have limited inventory to go to uh folks with seniors in the home or those
with limited mobility. From there depending on what we have available, you know, we'll try to honor as many requests as possible. But that's certainly where we're starting because that's where we've heard the we've heard the the feedback that it's an important consideration to to make. Um,
from here the discussion points that remain are the same ones that you all discussed a little bit at our previous meeting. And certainly we've considered um what a second barrel could cost both for the trash and recycling. Uh I think
that final determination is something we need to come to shortly at the very latest. it would be that July 7th meeting um because they that that would still give us the opportunity to be collecting information about who needs it and then get getting back to them with a delivery date as well as a cost so they can make a final decision. Um
that hinges on a couple different things that we discussed at solid waste advisory committee uh both tonnage and sort of the administration of such a such a program. So uh that's something that I would ultimately leave up to you all. happy to weigh in, happy to bring it back to the July meeting if we think it's too late tonight to have the
discussion as well. I'm not sure where you all would like to go. >> Um I I the determination of what this fee could be um has some math behind it. There's there it really does. Um I developed
working the last couple of days really hard trying to develop a calculator for it so that and I I think I sent it to you like late this afternoon. And you probably haven't even looked at it yet. I don't blame you. Um, but I took the data that we know and I put, you know,
what our variables are, which trying to pull it up here, but my battery's dead. Um, there's the cost of just the tonnage, which is our tipping fee, which is separately negotiated, and then there's the cost of the actual functional
service. So, there's I can actually wait till Katie So, so philosophically, I just kind of want to lay the groundwork of two different ways to look at this. I'm I have a feeling on one. There may be differing opinions. That's okay. But I just kind of want to frame this in in a
way that everyone can kind of understand it together. Of course, everybody knows, no, not everybody. It's terrible assumption. Our trash contract is broken down in a couple different ways. One is the transportation cost, and the other is by the weight, what they call a tipping
fee. That's by about 125 bucks a ton. So when you think about what the established per cost per resident cost is, there's a baseline and that baseline cost is for the the truck to come to your house. The total contract for that
service though still has almost like a a hidden cost based upon the total amount of tonnage that we provide because it determines how often they fill the back of the truck, how often that they have transportation back to the landfill or the transfer station and so on. It's not really easy to see
but if you can think about it one way is there's an established base cost per household that it cost. Now the second part is usage. So if you have, you know, we did we did a a quick basic division of the amount of tonnage we've had in
the last year divided by 5100 municipal households. It comes around 25 26 pounds per household. Now that's doesn't sound like a lot, but the reality is is that some have less >> and some have a lot more. So there's a
there's a bit of a distribution curve in terms of its usage, right? And so we did SWAK did a survey twoish years ago and did we got like 900 plus respondents
which I thought was pretty good. That's a that's just under 20% from from a statistical analysis standpoint. and it it was roughly eight% were users of a regular regular basis of for extra bags.
So we know we have some that are barely filling it, some that are filling it normally to its height and others that are constantly needing additional capacity. So knowing that we're going automated and the use of regular extra
bags becomes problematic just from the the service side um they've encouraged us to go you know to have a second barrel. Okay. So how do how do we how do we structure that? So one way to do it is to is to say okay well if you have a
second barrel you make you have to make an assumption that the first barrel is completely full >> right >> and that complete being completely full depends upon everyone's going to be a little bit different so if you but if you look at
the EPA had provided some guidelines in terms of how much that could potentially be if it was full and it averages it could be as high as 50 pounds Okay, that may vary upon your experience, but
that is kind of a based upon average of the uh t how much tons it is per cubic foot or how much pounds it is per cubic foot. I've done some math. I put in the calculator, whatever. We can all look at that. I'd like to be able to present to the board that calculator, work with
Nick a little bit further to help make those assumptions and then come with a recommendation, but also something that you can say, well, what if we charge less for this or more for this? And you can kind of see how that flows together and then then it it starts to make sense. The same thing
goes for the recycling carts. I'm pretty convinced that the businesses on Humphrey Street and other commercial businesses are going to need more than one. But whereas I think the average per household was like 10 11 pounds of
recycling. If you in other words, if you take the massive number divided by 5100 residents per week, >> it's it's not that much. But then you have to make the assumption if you need a second recycling cart, you're filling up all 96 gallons, >> right? which is which which then burdens
the town much higher than it ordinarily would as the average residential user. So when we're thinking about a second barrel, think about it in terms of it's full >> because >> right plan for it. >> That's that's that's my that's right in
terms of coming up with that number. >> So in terms of coming to you with a recommendation, would it be possible for Wayne and I to work together come on July 7th? That would be the we need to set the price on July 7th for a second barrel. >> I just want >> So there will be a discussion.
>> There'll be a discussion, but we also need to come to a conclusion that evening on what the Nemo will be. >> I'm trying to rep [clears throat] my own two barrels. >> Can I just talk about two things really quick on top of that? So great that you did the calculation. That's so logical. My mind is in glee. However, when I was
talking [snorts] to it about I I was talking a little bit to residents about it at the farmers market as I was walking around and some people were like some people agree totally with that sort of mentality like all you do is take the number of residents divided by that divided by the average tonnage and that's how much I'm supposed to pay for
an extra barrel. But then some people were like well the whole reason we went to the small barrel was to reduce the amount of waste that we have in tank. And if we did that, then yes, I agree that there are outlying households that need a second barrel. But what deters
them from filling up the second barrel to capacity, which is not what you want. You really want that barrel to be as >> overflow. >> You want that to be as small as possible. You want it to be used not every week. You want it to be used as little as the household can manage. So
then do you put on an additional like sorry you went over the gallons but you really shouldn't you should be trying to isn't that what the >> nobody wants to talk about it but I'm going to bring it up like a like a basically like the comm the community has committed
>> to a tax basically for a second barrel and so it's not just what it cost but it's saying well if it's not in line with the community standard which is we're going to try to get down our tonnage to x amount of tons annually and we're going to try to reduce the amount
of waste and we've implemented all these other ways to facilitate that. I know you're hurt. It hurts you to hear me say that. >> It doesn't I I I I we are not doing this in order to encourage additional trash. We are acknowledging the fact that having
multiple blue bags will slow service that is done in an automated way. We're trying. >> And so we're trying to we're trying to address a problem that is created by the change in service that no matter who we went with, if it's above one blue bag, everyone we talked to said, "You should
really go to two because it will slow service and ultimately become a problem both for them and for us and over time our costs will go up, >> right?" >> And I understand the policy goal of a smaller barrel. There is a I know on a fee on the fee
side, we cannot exceed the contract. We need a very strong defensible reason for the number we come up with on a second barrel cost because it cannot be >> cannot be a second barrel tax. >> It cannot be punitive. >> It might not be punitive. >> It cannot be that you did this and our
value is that you shouldn't be doing that and so it's more expensive. It is this is what it costs, >> right? And that's the goal of calculator. >> Well, >> I'm I'm in agreement with that. I'm just curious why there can't be a punitive tax. And I'm very >> on the fee on the trash fee side when so
and I'm talking about the fee at large that has been discussed very broadly here and there is a distinction here that I'll get to in a second. >> That is one that it is very clear you cannot charge more for a fee. It's like a utility. You can't charge more than the service. >> You can't surge price it,
>> right? And so this is >> this is in a this is in a bit of a gray area. It's is it an additional service because we're selling bags for $3 as it is that in theory as designed and as originally priced were meant to cover
the cost of that extra bag. Well, but is it done in the same calculation as logically as that the original? >> So, right. And so the what I'm going back to the philosophical argument is is does the bag have representation to the total service cost, right? Or just the
cost of the additional tonnage. There is some >> Is there a tax already on the bag? That's what I'm >> No, it's upside down right now. >> Right now it's we're upside down on it. Yeah, it needs to go up. We're upside down on it. So in theory, we should look
at this as if every residents in town bought a second barrel and filled it up to price the second barrel as a worst case scenario. >> No, no, not necessarily. Um, what I was suggesting is, >> so can I just jump in real quick? >> Yeah, please. >> The the quest the ultimate question that
it boils down to is are we paying for tonnage because the truck is already at the end of your driveway? >> Mhm. or when we when we look at the administrative costs in the town side to make sure that we're you know sort of running the program and we consider the fact that it does add time for transportation it could add time for
transportation because there's another run to dump you know there's a lot of variables that I >> it's it's unknown right now to say like we know it's >> cost it's got to be >> so it that is the question that we will be putting before you ultimately >> I don't want to blow this whole thing up
but why wouldn't you Just if a person were going to buy a second barrel, give them a larger barrel for a additional fee rather than have two barrels. >> You mean one larger barrel and replace in place >> instead of two and
>> one gallon instead. Ignore what she just said. >> I'm just asking because strike that. Please strike that from the record based on the size of this barrel. >> No, it no >> you could have a second barrel, but it is I guess it's an I'll answer my own question. It's an administrative nightmare to have two differentiz
barrels floating out there because you'd have to procure two differentiz barrels. You lose the buying power for buying one size barrel because you'd have to >> It's also the exact opposite of your argument that as a policy >> I'm very good at that. >> No, but [laughter] as a policy someone
could just say I'm happy to pay XV fee to just I've been struggling with this barrel forever. I do not like this barrel. I haven't liked it since the day it came out and I want the other barrel. It we we've torn the band-aid off. we have the barrel. The discussion is about
if we need instead of having >> blue >> four blue bags every week, how can we support that edge case in town to make it possible to make sure our vendor has a way to do it and our residents have a way to do it that makes sense for both and supports service that's efficient,
safe, and reliable. >> So, our vendor could support the same timely service if if every house had two barrels than if every house had one barrel. It doesn't matter >> if every ho I mean we that's the question see I think I think we're
>> the use case it's an edge case that people are going to need a second not everyone is suddenly going to say I want to pay extra I want a barrel when I have >> I expect you to see probably a couple hundred out of out of the 5000 >> okay great >> and it should be accommodating the people who are every week buying an extra bag
>> and then instead of having to leave multiple extra bags out there and with that inconvenience of having to go buy those damn bags they can just put the bag in the container. You know, I I think that container fits a bag and a half >> if that if you 35 gallon container. 30 gallon.
>> You mean your regular trash barrel only fits a bag and a half of trash >> basically. >> No, that is not true. >> I'm speaking from experience. >> We're talking about the blue bags. >> The blue bags are 30 gallons. >> They they fit 30 gallons. >> Okay, so let's get back to the agenda
item since I totally derailed the conversation on my fun. >> So, I should have stayed in the ladies room. I just I just want a price. I don't care. >> So, we're going to get a price. Wayne and Nick are going to work on a calculation that makes logical sense, which does not include a tax. Everybody listen, that was a bad idea. Sorry. And
we will provide >> appreciate the thoughtfulness though. >> Correct. >> But I think philosophically, I think we need to be really clear. I can tell you I don't want to see just the tipping fee on there. I want to see it. I I want to see whatever the fee is to encompass all of the fees that it that it costs to
>> I don't want to hear in a year that we're upside down on that. >> That's exactly what I would >> I think what I'd like to do is show you >> the highs, the lows, multiple cases of how we came up with it and then we can discuss what we discuss. >> I believe it.
I believe you. All I'm saying is >> I would just say we should get to the we none of us want to hear we're underwater on this next year. So price it for the worst case scenario. >> Yes. >> Right. Is that >> right? >> It's like a luxury car here. >> So, but here's a question. Just because >> how many but we can be wrong.
>> What's the What's the timeline for ordering? Just because I want to get these extra barrels out >> as >> we're ordering this week. It was either done today or it'll be done tomorrow. >> Excellent. >> Soon as possible. Fabulous. >> And there'll be an, as I said, there will be an inventory for the smaller size and an inventory for additional
35gallon barrels for trash. When that inventory runs out, there will be a waiting list. >> Yeah. So, how >> we are not buying enough to have like just >> a whole garage full of extra. >> Okay. So, the next question is how quickly can we get online or communicate that we need to have correspondence from
the community of what they need as far as you know how many people here need an extra barrel? >> Not me. >> For trash. >> I will. >> How many people how many people need will need extra barrels for recycling? >> We it would not be this week. We need to create a form and database online. The
people and then the other side of this is you're not going to set a price until July 7th. >> Right. Right. >> When we were at the public information session, I said the last week in June, first week in July would be when the form would go live. >> And I think we can do >> I think we can get it in advance of the
price. But the real >> idea of like who's going to say yes, like we need to have the price. Well, we do have we do have residents that do not want that do not want this 96gallon uh container. They want the smaller container. I mean, we know we have that, >> right? And that
>> so that form I think that form should be out ASAP >> for recycling. >> Yeah. >> Yes. That it's there are a lot of residents suggesting that. Yeah. >> We do not want the big one. There there's it's it's both senior citizens who are concerned about the the handling
of it and then we uh received >> actually at the farmers market received a ton of uh feedback that was >> folks that live kind of vertically so they have retaining walls. Yeah. >> Me >> right. It's a good example. >> Three sets of stairs to get up to my house. >> Right. Where they they they need to
bring it down to the street where historically they brought a smaller set of containers. They're not sure they can handle >> a 96 gallon container going up. particularly reasonable it becomes a becomes a safety issue. So >> okay >> I I will highlight and this will be in the language on the website
>> when you downsize if we make a change in service we are not providing a second barrel just >> here's your down >> there this we are willing to make this use shift from 96 to 64 but we're not redeploying a second time >> and ordering a second round of barrels
if there's no several hundred that have been deployed >> at the smaller size. Mhm. >> So in that situation, >> in that situation, I would I just like to see us get a form out ASAP for that one. >> Yeah, I we talked about it on Monday that it would be last week in June,
first week in July, which would be >> a DPW once >> end of next week, beginning of the week after >> is most likely what we're looking at >> once a week >> to get something that's reliable and works. >> Maybe we could do some targeted Facebook ads. Um >> Okay. >> Is that in the budget?
>> I don't think so. >> What is the What does the timeline look like? Oh, so we're saying but when when are we going to talk about the actual uh change over to are we looking at August one? Are we looking at
>> change over for service? Talked about that on Monday as well. We're looking at July 27th. It's the third week in July. >> The third Monday in July. >> You think we'll have all those bins in now? Okay. >> Great. And Dan acknowledged and we will be
repeating that there will be a learning curve. Their drivers understand that. We understand that. Dan's staff, you know, um >> they'll we're going to set up a trash at swampscottma ma email address. They'll,
you know, that will go to both probably our office and the DPW certainly in the beginning so that the responses are quicker. Um, and in addition to that, we had talked about setting up a phone number that would literally just be a voicemail for things to come into that we can be clearing out repeatedly from
the >> from the customer service um office so that it is not something that's just >> yeah, >> you know, either interrupting customer service all day or not being responded to quickly enough. >> We had like 50 people out here. It was pretty full on on Monday night. We had
another dozen people online. >> Lots of people online. >> Yeah. A lot of people asking questions. So, it was I think well received and >> there were some people that thought they would not be able to handle the barrel that when they saw it they like I can do this. I'm okay with you know at the same time there were others saying where will this fit at the end of my driveway versus on the but there were a couple of
folks that were seniors that anticipated it being problematic and once they felt it >> saw it they were okay. >> Yeah. Good. Well, here's the other discussion that I think we need to have to have and we need to have it now versus later and that is the service as
far as going to every other week with recycling because I don't want to see us in a position where we're going to wait. We're going to see what happens and now we're going to turn around and drop another bomb on people. I would prefer that we have this conversation right away and we make a decision right away
and then we set set a time on when we're going to implement that. So, >> how does one get though true community feedback if they don't have the barrel yet that they're using to determine whether or not twice a week I mean uh every other week is viable? >> I think it [snorts] I think it takes I
think it's I think it's on us to decide whether or not this can be done. Now, Republic was here on Monday and when they were asked the question, how many communities I mean they cover the majority of the Commonwealth and out of the majority and every one of those or I
don't think he said every single one but >> most of their their clients are every other week. So, if we provide a service of if you think you have too much recycling and you couldn't handle every other week, then you should be you
should be able to get another barrel or, you know, buy another buy another barrel. >> Buy another barrel. >> Yeah, lease another barrel. So, you're going to lease another barrel and if you feel that that also might have a problem, then we should have a mechanism at the DPW on the last week of the month
where if you need to bring some more cardboard down, you can still bring some more cardboard down. Yeah, people's main concerns were just the amount of corrugated and um Gino is looking um to do along at the you know at the end of the month where we have metals and and
styrofoam >> to pilot a a cardboard take and um and I think we'll see when we see what that load looks like. I think if we say we're going to have recycling the first week of the month, the third week of the
month, and we have just in case you need more, you can also drop it off on the fourth week during the metal recycling. That is giving people the opportunity. And if you feel that you need more, then
you can also lease another barrel, same as getting another smaller barrel for trash. But I I did speak with several families. Um a family of six, a family of four, family of two. And every one of those families were
they were positive about being able to do it. Now, there was a family on my block who is very apprehensive about it. Um and that's that's the extent of my research, but it's >> how how much is it going to cost us or how much is it going to cost us? No. How
much is it going to cost us if we don't do it? >> Oh, >> 170,000. >> I lost. >> It was about 100 just 168 something >> 168,000. >> Okay, let's call it 150 because that's the low ball, right? So, it's approximately $150,000.
>> It was close to 170. I'm going to chalk it up to that. >> It it it is meaningful because when you look at the contract over time, if it's just going up with the 5% increases, >> that Yeah, it gets more and more and more. >> So, year one, it's 168. Year two, it's that plus 5%. 5% escalate. Yep.
>> So Salem, you know, >> which we could offset with a trash fee. I hate to say it, right? But you [snorts] could in theory. >> Well, fee can't be punitive >> or no has nothing to do with >> that wouldn't be punitive. That would be covering cost. >> Um Salem Salem does it. I'm pretty sure
Lynn does it the the every other week. >> The other piece is is it going to cost us to have the DPW yard open for receiving? >> It's already open >> in the end of the month. It is the same day as paint, metal, and >> right. So they're not it's not going to cost us anything.
>> It's not additional. It's what we're already operating. >> We'll have to pay for the dumpster or whatever. Like there will be a nominal cost, right? >> For a place to put it or more or manpower. >> No, there's the the there is a nominal cost to additional tipping for recycling. It is the most valuable as
long as we keep it clean of our right now when >> you have to cancel if it's >> but it's it's also >> if it's raining you have to cancel because the cardboard gets wet and then it gets too heavy and >> it's also very >> it's not as valuable. >> It's also very light. So like to get a ton of cardboard is takes a lot more
cardboard in volume than >> it's a lot of cardboard >> than to have a ton of glass you know like so >> but yeah it's something that when we talked about it Gino said it would only work if we do it on that Sunday or on the weekends that were already there because then it is adding staff time and
everything else and it's cutting into savings right >> so that was certainly part of the discussion throughout with the the task force group that included Marielen and Wayne >> and you don't think this is going to discourage people from recycling? What? >> Going every other week instead of just >> tossing it in the trash because I don't
want to bother >> waiting for I'm just saying >> they're >> they won't fit it. >> Most most communities. >> Where are you fitting it in your trash barrel to be honest? >> Well, >> communities in this area >> in this area most communities are already every other week. >> What's Marblehead? They just negotiated
theirs. Are they moving to >> What's Nutant? >> Okay, let's hunt Marblehead. What are >> you know what Marblehead? because they made a bunch of choices like late in the game. I don't know what their their final choice was. >> Uh can we >> I think they have the transportation anyway as well. So I think he would have
said >> no I'm just curious what our >> um >> surrounding what our neighbor communities are doing that. >> Can we at least wait to make this decision until the seventh so that we could have public comment on it and invite public to discuss it because it's not a topic that we've discussed. >> Yeah. >> As publicly as the all the other related
>> So I I think we can do it. My concern is the roll out of this and so I I understand Marielen's point of thought where you know we don't want to go you know feel like people are getting hit over the head right >> you know in all six months from now what
are they doing now you know we need to get in front of it >> I am >> and advertise it >> yeah I am just a bit hesitant to do something that I don't know >> what >> how it's going to turn out Yeah.
>> What about if you had a fivemon roll out? You had a five month. If you said, "Listen, this is we have our new barrels. >> Figure out how you're putting it on the curb. It's it's all it's not >> it's not that hard. You're going to be okay. And starting January, we're going
to be going every other week." That gives people five months. >> What about October? >> Well, you get close to holiday season at that point. M >> recycling during Yeah, >> I was good with October, but >> and and you know, we can always reserve the right to >> Did you get any feedback on this Monday
night? Anybody ask? >> Not for every other week. >> So, we didn't even I haven't I know that you've disagreed with my characterization of this. I've talked about this. We're not changing service levels, >> right? I too. So that's why we are doing
what we've always been doing and that's what and so we have not asked for we have not solicited feedback on this idea. >> Some people have certainly heard your discussions on it and I've mentioned it as part of the discussion and I explicitly talked about it at the solid waste advisory. I don't know that I did as much in
>> the one LA this past Monday. >> Yeah >> that we negotiated a price for this for a reason >> because this was our chance to do it and we anticipated that this could be a change in the future. But when you get this barrel in July, you're still going to have it every Tuesday. It's not going to be every other Tuesday. It's going to be every Tuesday.
>> We've publicly stated that and now we're going to potentially >> No, I think what Mary Ellen's saying is get used to it, but make a decision. We're not going to we're not going to do this until for I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to do this anything earlier than 3 months to
make sure every October but I think to make it even easier on the public to say January because now we're past the holidays. >> You know that's just the input that I have. >> Yeah. >> I had a resident say that he thought January was a better date. >> Yeah. I'm going to be sleeping on the
couch next year. They're going to write about [clears throat] it and then we're going to have feedback. >> Sorry. That's the L item. >> Oh the L item. Sorry. I apologize. The item is here. They're going to write about it and then I'm sorry it wasn't meant to be personal. >> Thank you. Um they're going to write about it and then we're going to have a
million people show up on the 7th to give public comment about whether every other week is a viable option. >> I mean let's I mean we close to $170,000 savings. >> I know it's hard to pass up that especially when >> after three years that'sund almost
$190,000 >> right? So >> total like it grows. So >> Mhm. >> I don't know. >> All right. Is there anything else left? Because we're not going to we're not going to solve this one topic tonight. >> One just setting the table so we know. >> Okay. >> What are the pitches? Could we'll have a
brief discussion on the costs for the fee >> the background and how we arrive at it and then you all can deliberate and decide on the 7th. >> Okay. Okay. Good. >> That'll be fine. >> The fee for the extra barrel I'm talking about. >> Right. >> Just want to be clear. >> Both extra barrels because they're they're not going to be the same price.
Correct. >> They could be, but they probably won't. >> No, they can't be. >> They can't be because the recycling >> 190 gallons of recycling. >> Um, >> question. >> Okay. So, we'll move on to the final topic on the old and new business, which
is the six-month review of the town administrator. So, in accordance with the town administrator's contract, he um negotiated a six-month review um >> and the charter. >> It's on the charter. >> It's what? Okay. So, it's >> I said both and the charter. and the charter. Yes, we one topic I do want to
get into before we give the review is that there is a misalignment now between the start and end date of Nick's um yeah the start date of Nick's contract. >> Thanks. >> The annual review process and what it says in the charter. >> So the charter contemplates a June
review annual review. >> It worked out we did a six-month review in June. So his six month well his the six-month review actually began in April >> and we solicited feedback from the prior board members which is what I will be presenting tonight. Okay. >> So we would be looking at October for
his annual review. Right. So we should at some point update our hand charter and handbook the charter review committee slated to we got to get that going but that should be a topic so that we can align with you know upon the anniversary hiring
>> anniversary day instead of June >> and it should be an annual process that occurs >> got written that way. >> Exactly. >> It's not it just says every June. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So [clears throat] the overall combined cing uh scoring in each individual category. So the five of
the two prior board members on the three of us all did our best to answer the questions that were put forward which included personal characteristics, professional skills and status, relationship with our board, policy and governance reporting, citizens relations, employee relations,
supervision, fiscal management and community external relations. I will say that not all members answered all of the sections. So it does sort of skew the results. some members felt like they couldn't answer certain sections because um for whatever reason. Mhm.
>> So um for the first category, personal characteristics and Nick and I have already discussed this um so this is not um won't be new to Nick. Um but uh personal characteristics the combined rating was excellent with strong consensus of high performance across all
of the reviewers. Um for professional skills and status the they called it a high S. So some satisfactory, some excellent, mostly strong with some variations from one reviewer. Um uh relations with select board again they gave it a I we gave it a high S which is
very strong overall with consistent positive feedback across most reviewers. Um policy and governance was rated as satisfactory with a solid performance limited variation but fewer excellent ratings in that subcategory. Um there
was a high S for reporting. Um for citizens relations the combined review was satisfactory. Um for uh employee relations it was a high S which means some said excellent and some said satisfactory with more
saying excellent than satisfactory. For supervision satisfactory mo this was the most variable of the um subcategories. This is where most people did not answer it because um it was based mostly on like relationships really like for the chair or vice chair and if you didn't
hold that role you might not have had perview or felt like you comfortable answering some of these questions. Um fiscal management it was excellent um one of the strongest and most consistent of Nick's categories. And then um for community and external relation he got a high S which is a strong um performance
with some opportunity for growth. Um overall the town administrator has demonstrated a strong overall performance across the evaluation period with majority of reviewers rating his performance in the high satisfactory to excellent range. Um several areas
consistently noted um as highly effective. His key strengths include his excellent judgment, professionalism, and composure. his ability to maintain clear and transparent and timely communication with the board, providing thoughtful recommendations, but supporting the board's overall informed decision-making
skills, demonstrating strong ability to learn quickly and adapt. This is obviously a six-month review, not his annual review, and boy, we've thrown a lot of him and he's been able to handle it. [snorts] Um, he's showing initiative and understanding town operations, identifying process improvements, and
implementing solutions. Um most impressive is the positive working relationships that he has built in the short period at town hall. Um I will say that I have spoken with many staff members at town hall and the most positive thing I hear about Nick is how
he empowers them to do their job and they feel like a partner with Nick which is amazing. The atmosphere in that building has shifted and it's much to um >> Nick's credit >> to Nick's credit. [clears throat] um performance obviously strongly
performs strongly in financial management including his budget preparation, his fiscal oversight and responsible use of resources and then showing commitment to organizational effectiveness. We have not been keeping up with all of our processes and procedures but he has um
tried to implement some and continues um to encourage department heads uh to do so. So, areas for continued growth, incre increasing engagement with the broader community, more direct outreach and visibility to residents, quicker response time to residents, um through
email or otherwise, um continue to delegate responsibilities, empower staff. Staff feels very empowered, but it does feel like there there's just a lot of work to go around. So, we will continue to ask Nick to delegate where able um to further strengthen his internal leadership capacity.
um in certain situations he Nick might benefit from addressing challenges more directly and proactively um and then to improve visibility and communication with some internal management areas. Um and that is just because the some of the
board members didn't feel like they could answer some of the questions. So the feedback was maybe if we discuss it more at large then everybody will feel empowered to answer it six months from now. Um so overall the town administrator is performing at a very high level exceeding expectations in several key areas and meeting
expectations in all others. The feedback reflects a capable and effective leader who has made strong progress and is well positioned for continued success with targeted opportunities to enhance community engagement and organizational depth. Um so again the t key takeaways
um are the highest reading is personal characteristics and fiscal management um and the more moderate moderate development areas are policy and government citizens rel relations and supervision. So that is the combined scoring
and I will be providing that to Katie. Yeah, >> Dupant. So, she can hold it. Um, if somebody should wish to see the consolidated >> and then we will figure out how we align so that we are doing the October review
but also keeping um best practice in align with the charter because we're not going to do one in October and one in June. >> I mean, if you all wanted to, you could just do six months from now and then get on and get >> get on the charter schedule after that, >> right? That's >> so that it's more intensive in the
beginning and then on to the schedule, but it's up to you. >> Okay. Fine with whatever >> fine with that too. And this was the first time we used this form. There was some feedback about this form and it not being the best form. I really disliked the prior form. Um, so I have asked
Danielle to do a little bit of research and see if we can come up with a standard form that we could all agree on before we actually do the reviewing so people feel comfortable and able to answer all the questions. So Danielle's going to work on that in the meantime. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
All right. Any questions? Everybody's good. >> No, I I just want to say um this is very much a job where there is no matrix. There is no onboarding. There is essentially trial by fire. And you know,
it's difficult, right? You know, when Nick walked in day one, he didn't get somebody leading him around, showing him the ins and outs. this is what you do, this is how you do the job. Um, in the absence of that, I I think you've performed exceptionally well. Um, are
you perfect? No. Who is, right? Um, but you know, considering the climate that was in that building, um, I have spoken to many employees in town hall and they are for once happy. They feel
comfortable, they are doing, you've made a number of significant hires, really good ones. Um, and the overall feeling when you walk in there is different than it used to be. And that is all due to you. So, thank you for that. And, um, I
look forward to the future with you because I really think it's going to it's going really well. So, >> thank you. >> That's my take. >> Great. >> So, I am looking forward to having a different application because I think that application is a little tough. I
mean, I couldn't answer something, you know, asking about the relations with employees. How would we know what the relations are with employees unless we're walking around asking employees, how's your relationship with Nick, which I don't think is really something you want to be doing. Um, and I also think
that there are some, you know, there are some, you know, there's some opportunities there. I think communication, you know, was never touched upon. I think you know our communicate I think communication is something that really needs to work be worked on and as far as financial I
don't share that agreement on financial and on budgeting. Um and I just think that we have to have conversations here as far as what is this board's philosophy on finances and how we should be looking at things because we are
coming to the end of our um unused levy and we're looking at an override. So those are conversations we have to have so that you know he has really clear guidelines on how to put these budgets together. >> And that's good feedback, right? I mean I think too it would be unfair to
penalize him for um being here six months and making him responsible for our unused levy, right? Um certainly not something we could grade him on or negatively grade him on. Um but yes certainly you know I think he's carrying
out what we direct and what you know in the past six months in the way we've guided so as much as we want to um if we look for improvement for you then we have to look inward also because we're the ones kind of driving that bus but it's definitely a good point
>> on that topic and I will keep it brief since it's just on what you brought up. Well done. I think you've done great in the few weeks that I've been on the board and worked with you. >> Um, at town meeting this year, the finance committee provided recommendations on ways to minimize
future tax levy >> uses, >> right? >> And we should have conversations about those well ahead of budget season. >> Yep. >> Yeah. We should Yeah. >> set up a We've been talking about these financial summits. We We had more than
the day that we agreed we were going to do them. We've had more than we had before, so bravo. But we definitely need to have more. >> Yes. Yeah. >> And I know like originally it was sort of like this looming thing that it had to be all things at once. And I think we
kind of, >> you know, target the scope. >> Yeah. We've like decided that that's actually not true and we could really make some informed decisions substantively about which topics need to be spoken about. So, I think we could probably expect um I think it's hard to
do them in the summer. >> Um but we could hopefully we can look towards an August or September maybe um >> in advance of budget in advance of budget. >> The only nuance I would provide to that is some of those recommendations align with planning and zoning reform which we
are now encouraging to happen at a fall town meeting which requires the work to happen over the summer. >> Yeah. Okay. So we can >> and the planning board's already working on zoning amendments that kind of fit in a similar mindset. So that's the only nuance I would suggest. >> We can see if our partners and Vincome
are available in July and see if we can figure out some agenda topics. If people have agenda topics, they should email them to Nick and or and Shannon. Well, I think that was >> I think Eric has an interest in looking at and I've talked to Eric about this both before and after meeting looking at
the policies yes to align and it speaks to what Marielen just said actually that >> we're aligning what the priorities and values are right now with the priorities >> that are outlined you know in those guidelines right so >> right >> this being the second year in a row
going into excess levy with a projection that continues to do that >> right >> we shouldn't have in there that we are not going to do that. We should acknowledge what we're doing right now or we should draw a hard line that we stop doing it. >> Right. >> And that was one of the things that Eric said it would be important for you all
and fin to sit down together >> and have that among others have those discussions to say are there guidelines that looking at it eight nine years since the last time there was a deep discussion around it. >> Yeah. >> Are there things that we need to change to reflect the financial reality that we're in right now?
>> Yeah. And I think we should think about that when we talk about our goal discussion which is on agenda for late June as a board. Our goals as a board now we have >> the master plan. Now we have thoughts about financial policies. Now we have you know and how the budgeting process went this year.
>> Um those should all be helping us understand the >> things that we want to propose, >> right? >> Um as our sort of highlevel policy mission statement as a board. Um so we
will continue on that discussion and then that will dovetail nicely into a financial policy discussion. >> So I just wanted to comment one thing relative to his performance evaluation. I I first of all I thought you did a wonderful job on Monday. Um I really liked how you handled you know all 50
questions coming at you in public. Thought you did great. Um I think your level of professionalism is is is incredible. Um, I've come to realize just really how much you've taken on. Um, and being able
I I know it's challenging when I want an answer back quickly, but I also recognize you are also juggling chainsaws at the same time. So, and I know you're you're hesitant to even say you're always one I I appreciate you
always wanting to fall on the sword. Um, but I want you to know, you know, that that, you know, I I hold you to a high, of course, a high level of of not just respect, but um, expectations.
Expectations are high in this job. Um, and I think, uh, delegating those responsibilities to your staff is one of the most important things. um building a staff that that both has that that mutual respect and also um um knows that
they're valued um is is incredibly important um for the community um and also helps you make uh your your job become more effective. So I just want to say thank you. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Excellent. >> Okay. >> Well, enough about you, Nick. Move on to
the consent. >> I would like to move on. Thank you. [laughter] So on the consent agenda, would you pull out approval of appointments? >> I think that's the only thing. >> Approval of appointments. Six. >> Yeah, because I Yeah, because I just have a question that >> Yeah, just we'll be able to wrap it up.
Just pull it out so I can just have a a question on >> So the the motion then on the floor for the consent agenda would be items one through five and we will take six separate. Somebody want to approve that? >> So motion to approve. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> I.
>> Okay. So now we're looking at just six, the approval of the appointments. >> So the the question that I have is number one, we're looking at approving appointments. Um and just wonder did we have enough time to advertise uh
>> advertise these? So these most of these are current sitting members and the and we asked the chair if they and the appointee if they wanted to stay current sitting members >> right >> and so they're not open seats >> right so the one question I have is for
example um on the water and sewer committee you know do we have a list of people that want to be on the water and sewer committee because >> so I I can address that. How about if I finish my sentence? >> Sure, >> please. Yes. >> Um because you have do we have anybody
because we have a member here who's on so many different committees. I'm just wondering if we have people who are on so many different committees. Did we want to like make that person an alternate and get somebody else in there or get give another citizen an opportunity? That's I'm just wondering
did we did we really look at this and we didn't have the we didn't even have the application out there to be able to get on a committee for any extended time. So that's that's the question I have. The other thing is no one um I I'm I'm the
liazison to the uh retirement board and no one even asked me about reappointing Tom Driscoll and I would like to just say something about Tom Driscoll real quick. So you're all very well educated on Mr. Driscoll
and um I think he's a very rare volunteer to have in this town and I actually put a couple notes cuz I didn't want to forget it. He's actually in the Janelle Cameron category of volunteers and it's pretty tough to get into that category. Um he's a former select board
member and that was he [snorts] was on the select board before we had town administrators. So that means he had to really roll up his sleeves and do a lot of work. He's a current clerk of courts. He's been a lifelong resident here and he's been on the retirement board for 35
years. I mean, he doesn't even look that much older than 35. So, he's on the board over 35 years. He's been the chair since I've been on the board, which is he's been on the chair longer than that, but in the last four years, he's been the chair as I've and I've watched him
just do an excellent job of controlling his meetings and always keeping everything um quick up front, and they get a lot of they get a lot of work done. He keeps the committee expenses super lean, whereas other committees across the Commonwealth uh go on retirement meetings in Colorado,
California, or all over. they go to the Cape for their for their meetings. He only spends money when it comes to real important educational um issues that involve it. And um >> so what question >> this is one of the few committees that
this is one of the few retirement boards that doesn't take a um compensation. It it would be a little bit hard for them to take a compensation when a committee like ours sits here without any compensation, too. So they they've restrained themselves from that. Um but
this year alone he had to make he the board he was actually a deciding vote had to make a very important decision as far as changing consultants and I thought he was out of his mind changing consultants and that action turned to be
really a super super positive thing for for the community and the savings and the number one thing that we cannot forget is he and this committee have kept the retirement on target to reach
that goal and be fully funded by 2031. This is a major major accomplishment because I was involved a couple times on wrestling matches that he had with past town administrator to try to ease up and the past town administrator was really
doing his job and he was completely in the right um for requesting to have an extension on this. But Tom held held his ground and the committee held their ground and we're looking at being fully funded on 2031. So even though nobody
asked me my opinion, um he is one of the best people to have on this committee. I just want to make sure you all knew what this man does. So that's all I have to say about that. And then my only other my only like concern is did people get
an opportunity to be on the water committee, water and sewer committee when you have someone who's there who's on so many other committees. >> I think they have an opportunity to be on any right. They were advertised all over Facebook. I know that >> and it was on the website as well. I did
reach out to everybody like for instance on the water and sewer when you guys had spoken about it a few months ago. I reached out to all the that we had, >> right? >> Um some expressed interest, some did not. And then the chair was provided all
those applications um to be able to pick the four alternates what they picked. >> Um I will also say that uh Brian Drummond has recently given his notice to resign from his position. So there will be an open seat um that we will have to fill outside of this. So you can
take Brian off of consideration for this because he will not be >> Can I address for a second? So, um, I went to the last meeting. >> Can you address what? Sorry. >> What? >> Never heard it that way. >> Right. I got it. >> It sounded like it sneezed or something,
but anyway. >> 106. >> Um, so I've I've I've was at their last meeting. I've spoken with their chair. Um, yes, I am um understanding that Mr. Drummond has um uh chosen to resign um which opens up. There was actually two
vacancies um because Terry Dan still had also um resigned. Uh so what I >> who also resigned? >> Terry Danto. >> Terry Dan still. >> Yeah. So >> stay with animation. >> Yeah. >> Oh, sorry. >> So um it what ends up for whatever
reason. So I'm I'm less on to water and sewer um solid waste um climate action and and a couple other ones. Those three in particular have been fairly new and one of the challenges was that um when
we first instituted them we the previous select board you know they were threeyear twoyear one year so they had a revolving cycle >> somewhere or another that got lost and there have been a number of people that have been like renewed for one year so what I what what I did and I submitted this to
>> to Shannon and I and I copied uh Nick and Katie to you as [snorts] well as chair Um, >> yeah, >> just the ability to re reconfigure is the wrong word. Reassociate everyone together so that there are rolloffs, appropriate
rolloffs. So, I'd like to um >> amend. >> Amend. Yeah, I think I'd like to amend based upon the list that I provided or we can take it. I don't want to necessarily drag it out to to the next
select board meeting. No, no. Just just tell us the expert amendment. >> So, would it be easier just to to propose the >> the list? >> You have them. >> Everybody wants a copy or >> can you just read which for Iraq is John
going to be a three-year term? >> So, yeah, we can take the the easy ones first. Iraq is super easy, right? So, >> yep. >> He's he's going to be our select board appointee. >> Okay. >> John Picarella. >> Yep. Correct. >> On a three-year term. >> Yes. >> Okay, great. >> So, that's accurate. That's accurate. Um,
>> historic district commission is >> is accurate. Um, great. >> We're looking at >> Wait, can I just ask, does Sylvia Bellin still live in town? >> She's considered an alternate and no, she does not. >> Okay. >> She's considered an alternate. >> And I asked that only because I know that that was something we focused on
when we redid how we appoint people and we said that we had a preference for people that live in town, >> right? >> So, but that predated you, so I didn't know if you knew that. >> Yes. I and I and I talked to Marzy at length uh about the configuration. So, right now we have >> Okay. What about uh board of health?
>> Well, let me let me just finish with historic district just to be sure. So, Andrew uh and Ingred, >> that's correct. >> Ingred, y >> for a new three-year term. So, that's correct as stated. >> Sia's three years. So, that you're good with that table.
>> Uh yes, Sylvia is three years as an alternate. >> Correct. So, what? No. All good. Okay. So, climate action. >> So, climate action. Um, >> where is that? Okay. >> Climate action. Suzanne Hale
>> was a wee bit interesting. Um, >> just tell us what you want. Well, we don't need I mean >> so what I what I what I did in the list was just reassigned everybody locked it in starting with Martha, Suzanne, and
Jerry as >> So the only appointments you have are Suzanne, Jerry, Richard, >> and Professor Stephen Young. Those are the only three that are up for consideration right now. >> For right now? >> Yes. But I have different dates for all of them. And I'm resetting some of the other folks to >> You can't reset the other ones yet
because they're already midterm. They're not up. >> They're not up. So, you can only reset the four that you have on your list here. >> Yeah. That's why I pulled my computer up because I didn't have them print up. So, if you look at >> So, if you want to read >> you look at the bottom list, right?
>> I only that you can That's what I was mentioning earlier. >> The ones that are expiring now. >> Correct. Right. Right. So, >> we're not allowed to reset. >> No. because you've already given we've already given them fair to take term away. >> No, >> no one's taking the term away.
>> Mag, we could put this on the consent and give it to you printed for July 7th so that you can all review it. It's it's only seven days into the expired >> terms, we'll be able to address it. And that way, >> I think it >> if you all see it, we got this recently, so if you all see it.
>> Okay. >> But can we can we approve all the other ones outside of Wayne's then because >> Right. I think we need to but giving Wayne and and Ted a little grace because they don't know this process. So I think it's it's valid to have the conversation so they understand what they can and can't do.
>> Okay. So why don't we just remove climate action from the list? >> So are you clear now that you're just looking at ones that are expiring now, right? June 2026 and you can't move the others. >> Yeah, that was a little confusing as well because it wasn't clear at the time until like now.
>> Totally. um because we had to look through the old notes to understand who who make sure we had the list as to who was expiring, right? >> Yes, we can certainly re >> Okay, so we'll take climate action off for now from the consent agenda and we'll revisit that on the 7th.
>> Are you where else are you proposing change? >> Yeah. What other one >> are you solid waste advisory stuff? >> Yes, I'm going to take those >> solid waste. >> Solid waste. Do you want to change or those are good? >> Um >> I'll keep it. Those are
>> solid waste. If I may, I would say pull only because you changed Emily and she's the chair. >> Okay. So, she was she >> and and I have a vacant seat. >> Correct. So, I would just suggest >> pulling that. >> Pulling them. So, we'll So, you can meet with Shannon on what you'd like to sue
for solid waste. Also, we'll remove solid waste. >> Okay. So, remove that one. >> So, >> what else do you have? water and sewer rack and you have so water and sewer district and you have >> your your actual >> members are they all existing or they >> No, there's four alternates. Those don't
exist. So they those are being appointed. >> I know I'm not talking about the alternates. I'm talking about the actual members. Are those all existing or any of the new appointments? >> There are >> Ralph Supa has always been on. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Carly has been on. >> Scott Melindesh. Uh
>> Bind was just put on, right? >> He was just put on. >> Okay. I would just pull that only because he was changing to the position. >> Wait, so then Andrea is a member or an alternate? >> No, she's an alternate. >> I was looking to promote her to the member. >> She's a regular member. >> Okay, let's pull water sewer from this.
>> We're pulling water sewer. We're pulling solid waste advisory pulling climate action. >> Okay, just we're we're pulling those three. Wayne will report back on them. Everything else is is fine. What? So I will just say in Shannon's defense,
>> the documentation that was kept for this was difficult to understand and interpret. Absolutely. Shannon's Shannon is putting it in a form where she understands and interprets it correctly. Now we will not have this issue going forward. >> And you've done a great job. >> Thank you for slogging through this.
>> What I would ask in response to Marielle Allen's question is that when we do this going forward for the consent agenda, if you could just put the years served. >> Yep. That way we can make thoughtful decisions on if somebody's been on a board for a long time, right? If that provides a benefit or as a detriment because it's a long wait list of people
who want to get on that board, we can have a more robust. >> Well, the problem is if somebody's on four boards and you have people who want to just serve on one, you know. >> Yeah. And I don't disagree with you, but also maybe they'd be willing to give a different board up over this. And so maybe that's a question we can
communicate prior to just making that decision on our own. >> Okay. So, and I will just >> We really have difficult time getting anybody to >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I will just make one comment that I've reiterated by email to you, Nick, and Katie. >> Yes. >> We have alternates for every board here that it's authorized by statute
according to Mass General Law. And then we have alternates for one that we decided to wake up one day and just >> because we wanted alternates. >> It doesn't make any sense to me. >> It doesn't at all. >> Here's the deal. because we had so many people that were interested and in order to in order to encompass and try to keep people interested, we did it and it
actually worked out fine because >> when they were having meetings and people couldn't make the meetings, you had an alternate that jumped in and you still were able to have a quorum and get stuff done. So that that actually benefited that group >> and originally in its infancy it was a lot of work because they had to create a
whole scope. They had to they took on a lot of different topics and they did a lot of work initially. So >> Right. We want to make sure we're being consistent across the board, too, and not giving special >> special situations to certain boards, right? I mean, every if >> I only bring it up, yeah,
>> recreation has no alternates, for example, right? Like, >> and Harbor Waterfront could have benefited from alternates alternates, but also we had a lot of people who were all interested and there was a, you know, a food fight getting people on there. So, I only bring it up because it's just >> Yeah. No, that's fair. >> These were newer committees. I think as a result, there were there were new
ideas that came about and >> Right. you know. >> Okay. So, the >> You're right. I made my comment. I just wanted to put it out for >> agree. >> And if I we're going to advertise in the um July newsletter as well for any positions that are opening.
>> Thank you. And the link now works at the website. >> Link is up. I'll keep doing it on Facebook and social media. >> Oh, yeah. It's been I've seen >> maybe the item can write an article. I think I already saw one in the patch that we were looking for. >> Yeah. I mean, it's everywhere. It's just we can't get people to do it really. >> Does Aaron write for the patch now? I
said the item first, Ted. >> Oh boy, >> it's 10:15. [snorts] I'd like to go to bed. Can I get a motion to approve the so moved >> appointments minus car rack, >> whatever the acronym is, solid waste and water.
>> Second. All in favor? >> I I >> I would like the board to consider tableabling the select board reports since it is 10. >> So moved. >> And we move to adjournment. Adjournment. >> So moved. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. Hi. >> Oh, I >> whatever.
>> Thank you. Sorry that I called you from the