all right Hi welcome to the April meeting of the Swamps Zoning Board of Appeals Um the first item on our agenda is to approve past minutes Did we have defer those to next month Defer that next month All right So we'll move
forward with petition 25001 Um I'm gonna constitute the board as um everyone except for Susan Um two of us uh watched the video from the last meeting So we're all up to
date How do you I'm just thinking maybe keep everybody on until it's time to the board later in case some conflict or anything develop during um right did everybody watch I think it's I think I'm just going to
keep it as everyone accepts it so that there's no sort of who where someone's leaning from the conversation that's that's a that's fine disrupting Um this way it's before the conversation happens Um since all three of us were the ones who watched the um
watched on video Um all right So we have um the petitioner here Hi Um from the last meeting the question was did you have the original um
building permit Did you Yes So is that something that you've submitted I I didn't see it on the file Okay Okay Science fair Yeah Exciting Big day So do
we Did we get that um building permit Did we get the building permit Yeah What do you mean Like was it um he said he submitted the burn the building permit I can pull it up Oh do you have it Okay Yeah Thank you That was the only thing that was kind of missing from last
meeting Um one second Okay So there was two So there's one for a deck which is currently on hold and then uh this is the one submitted January 25th
2024 So this one remodel basement 7'6 inch vin ceiling height add bathroom basement remodel bathroom second floor add approximately 6 ft to enclose mud room replace existing windows So this is all of the information really There are no attachments in the file Um the permit
was issued It says inspections are ongoing Okay So it does it does mention that he's adding on to that space Yeah Yeah So and that that was approved by the building inspector the building commissioner Let me tell you who issued
it Uh Jeff I don't know who that is Um if it was January 2024 I would imagine that it was probably Steve Cummings Yeah I had to guess Um there we don't Oh John Jackson is the
applicant That's what it is right here Um I can tell you it doesn't say Oh Stephen Cummings Steve Cummings approved approval step building department review So so it was Steve Cummings that issued the permit our former commissioner
Okay Um all right Does anybody on the board have further questions from that weren't answered last meeting or further research I know we had um new pictures that Tony sent us Um so anybody have any does a petitioner have anything to
add to last meeting Is anybody else here to speak on that petition Hold on Let me hear you Hi Steve Gadman Uh I abut the property Uh the the my fence is actually only 12 feet from
from my house the permit that uh is online on um record I spoke to the former uh builder inspector about that uh because I did see it but he said that he was supposed
to submit plans before he went ahead and build anything He never submitted plans to go ahead and build that and he didn't know that he was going to put that up Um and then when he came to the house he came out to the house to look and he was
shocked when he saw that the the size of it that because he had no plans for it And then when the plans were submitted uh some of the measurements were wrong on the plan Um and even if he submitted a plan to begin with being that close it
should have went for a special permit and we should have had this meeting before he even put the building up that that piece up Uh it's like I've said before I mean I know you've watched the the video so I don't want to repeat
anything that um but we feel closed in in our own backyard It's like looking up at a wall Um I I don't I don't know what to say Um that I didn't already say Um
except we do like I said we do feel closed in in our own backyard and we feel trapped back there All right My understanding of this is that it does fall under the bala I think where um my feeling is that this is um
continuing a non you know pre-existing non-conformity and that is also um but it is not more non-conforming than the pre-existing non-conformity In fact it's less non-conforming as it recedes away from the property line um as the first
sort of checkpoint for the Balta Does anybody else on the board have thoughts about that I I have some thoughts I see it as clearly baltted that it's a pre-existing non-conforming
structure that the sideyard setback is non-conforming with a zero setback It's protected under 486 And the first question under Balterra is the work increasing the non-conforming nature of any
nonconformity And because it's not bringing it it can't possibly increase it beyond zero without encroaching on the neighbor's yard physically Um so if the answer is no
then the next analysis is the step two which is making a finding that it does not increase the non-conforming nature of the existing nonconformity If if the answer was yes that it was
increasing the non-conforming nature then you would get to a special a section six special permit analysis about whether it's more detrimental to the neighborhood But I I think unless you can find that
the the work is increasing the non-conforming nature we don't get to that analysis So I see it too So you just say our hands are tied really whether you like it or you don't like it your hands are tied I I think hands are tied We don't have jurisdiction because
Lalta makes it clear that if there's a pre-existing non-conformity and you're continuing that I mean if this house was angled differently towards the lot it would be even wor it would be even closer But because it's angled away it's actually you know slowly becoming
non-conforming right I mean less non-conforming right If it was running parallel and it went in any just an inch more into the sideyard then I think it would trigger that second step but I I don't think it does Does anybody see
that first question differently on the board that it is increasing the non-conforming nature in any way And it's only that se that that small section that they need the relief It's the red The reds know but not even
because the majority of the red is conforming Okay Right It's conforming It's only that one little section that is technically not It's really I mean they could build the majority of this They could build as of right It would be a conforming It's a conforming edition It's that one little section that's
non-conforming The majority of the addition So do you place Solomon as a penalty because it really should have been discussed before it was built and talk to the neighbor who's supremely offended Is there any mitigation because you built this be you shouldn't have
been building this We should be having this discussion with it not built to or do we just fold our tent and say look there's nothing we can do or do we ask him is there some mitigation I think that was I I understand mitigation And my thought on it is the building
inspector issued a cease and desist because it wasn't you know he said didn't get his plans or wanted to come here Um but I don't know that we have do I think that would be the equitable and fair thing to do to have some type of mitigation Absolutely But I don't know
that that's our role quite frankly Okay My thought just one voice Um and I mean could we have this that the plans do need to be submitted as part of the record for this for this building permit
before work begin before work continues Yeah that I know this is part of our but there's this isn't these aren't plans This is jurisdiction not our jurisdiction It's not for us This should be except that he did put the he put the hold because it wasn't submitted and
then it came to us So if we allow it without his approval of the plans we could allow it pending that that everything's properly submitted to the building inspector Well that's how we allow everyone you know every except that usually Yeah I guess But except
that this I guess because this because this permit is already in existence and he physically has it verse right verse a permit that isn't hasn't been pulled yet and hasn't been right I mean he has a permit Yeah But we
talking about your mind Thank you So you're talking about the when first apply for the permit we had Steve who's approved it and the contract didn't feel all the the requestment plans on it on
the time So Steve told me that to get move ahead we have to have survey done drawing with all the measurements and go for a special permit So that's what I thought we going to do in here And uh
I'm I'm not sure if he in decades guys have to go back on him on him and ask uh again for approval Do I have to submit all these uh plans to him first before I come back in here That's what you're talking about Yeah Well typically what
would happen is you would apply for the permit The building inspector would not issue a permit They would say they would look at what you have like your plans and they they if you didn't submit plans they'd ask you to submit them and they you submit them all and then they would review it and if they thought it needed a special permit they would send you here before ever issuing a building
permit But you have a building permit that was issued without this step So I guess we're trying to just clarify where the paperwork should be um between here that we have this plot plan now but the building inspector is not part of the
building permit And there are no we still don't have plans for the work We only have the plot plan Uh we don't have drawings or plans right And because there's the roof change there are other changes that the building inspector might want to see um and should have the
opportunity to review But could we make our finding subject to finding that it's not increased the non-conforming nature of the existing nonconformity and conditioned upon any required documents or plans um
that the building inspector requires as part of his permit process being uh submitted Yeah that's what I would want to do only because he has a he has a permit but doesn't have all that submitted Um
does anybody else have any any questions or concerns or needs to is whatever these plans show will they have the ability excuse me to impact the decision
I I guess from the building inspector's point of view yes But not from the encroachment point of view from the special permit for the encroachment But if the building inspector sees something in the plans that weren't properly represented to us or that were um that
are somehow different and create a new nonconformity Um do we want to know that before we approve this permit Does that matter I I think we're okay because we're going to include as part of the decision
reference to Hancock plan that shows the dimensions and our issues are really dimensional Okay Okay Thank you Does anybody want to make that motion contingent
on any filing any requests with I'll I'll make a motion on it Um I'll make a motion on petition 251 44 New Ocean Street to make a finding
that the property has an existing nonconformity in that the proposed work the work that has been completed or also the proposed work as shown on the Hancock survey dated
11524 does not in increase the non-conforming nature of the existing nonconformity consistent with the Bada case Balta case and um conditioned
upon the petitioner submitting any plans or drawings that the building inspector requires to fulfill um his duties and the requirements under the building code
and our zoning bylaw Second Second All in favor I I do I have to vote on this one Yes we have to have all of them Y um Yeah I
All right So you have your relief Um but it is it is conditioned on meeting with the building inspector and getting all the proper paperwork submitted to the building inspector for final review All right Thank you Thank you very much All right
So we're moving on to petition 253 Um are you here to speak on that petition Sorry Um Arthur Sims All right Just if you want to grab that mic that's right behind you that way Yeah There you go
Thank you Hi Welcome um if you'd like to um run through your petition for us Um essentially um we'd like to put an addition on that
is going to be within the 7.5 foot setback Um as the well first of all the lot is kind of a odd shape It's more of a triangle than a square shape And the main house and
the garage are not square to each other which is causing us a few design problems Um the existing garage uh a corner of it um is actually uh I believe it says 5.8
ft or 5.6 feet from the uh property line And we would like to keep that 5.8 8 or whatever it is 5.9 5.9 and uh stay the same distance
uh from the uh pro you know 5.9 ft all the way down for the addition Um and we're asking uh seeking relief to uh do that if we need relief So wouldn't that require a var
Well it's a similar situation because it's already 59 It's already 59 Yeah So it's similar in the sense that we're we're falling into the that's like that case is taken it's taken over special permit Every special
permit Yeah Yeah I'm non-conforming so I just can as long as I don't go outside my nonconformity Yeah I can build all over Yeah I mean an argument could be made that putting more
building in that I mean the other one was unique in the sense that it was going away from it So it was actually becoming less non-conforming as it went back In this one an argument could be made that you are putting more bulk of building in that um step back and
therefore are you like creating more nonconformity by putting more bulk in that space whereas the other one you were kind of it was going away from the it was angling away but it it can be it seemed it just it's there's a little bit
of interpretation but I think that yeah I I think it it because we had it on Belleview we had it on Middle Sex and we asked the question of Robin and she came back on both saying if it that that because I thought the same thing adding
more mass but I was wrong Yeah So there's no discussion If I can say a few things uh we've we've looked at several options here um uh without going into that
setback and our feeling is that the best for the neighborhood I think and for the neighbors um would be expanding into that um within the 7.5 ft setback as
opposed to extending uh further back um into the uh into the ex into the buildable zone so to speak I don't know how you want to phrase it Um again we've looked at numerous different options Um we think this would
be the best for the neighbors I think they would agree from what little we've talked to him as far as sight lines and all that are concerned I mean because the alternative is going back further Yeah And you don't have a rear yard set right He's keeping the 5 foot n but
there's a crook in the in the building wall So that his 5 foot nine is parallel It's not like he's shooting that line straight and it would be then making the 5 foot n less than 5 foot n He's saying "Okay I got 5 foot n over here." Yeah So I'll stick with my 5 foot n It gives me
a little cone in my wall so to speak Yeah That that wall won't be totally straight It's have a ever so slight angle And we don't have anything to say So Well and if it was straight Yeah you wouldn't be able to do it because then it would be encroaching more into the sideline
And why is I guess why can't the argument be made that it's creating more of a nonconformity there's you said that there's a precedent that Yeah It's just because of precedent and we've talked to um our town council about it and um the president the state precedent So our
zoning bylaw is more restrictive than the state Yeah Okay So than the law Yeah So and this is conforming Our law isn't unconform everything This is something where previously they would have had to
move it in to six feet So that just one foot in and then they'd have to then we give them a special permit for the difference if they if it made sense for the project But now we um allow allow it as is because So this is at 59 Okay
Because of the alteration So this is going out like this Can't you see that little bend This only applies though to single and two family non-conforming structures Anything else than that would be subject to the same section Yeah he didn't he didn't go straight through but
it is we we had one case that kind of just brought all of this to light a few years ago Okay I got five We got this literature from town council that and I'll build along the five explain all these protections that we didn't necessarily know existed beforehand So it's clever Yeah I mean it's nestled
back there That's fine All right So um talk to your neighbors on what's that Yeah Yeah Have you spoken to your neighbors Have you shown them the plans Yeah One of the abutters we did we talked to them and explained how you know the other scenarios Which one The one across the street or the abuter on
this on that one Unfortunately this per the person here we rarely see them Been there for you know over a year We saw them five times and we told them that we were looking for an addition But these specific plans we haven't seen them since we put these plans on paper Okay I mean they've been notified They've been notified Nobody reached out to me The AB
we see is is directly behind us and not on the side that the extensions on you know in the in the What's on the property line Is there trees a fence between you and there There are shrubs and trees and the
property line obviously we had it surveyed So what exists there is not some of it's some of the butter is kind of encroached on us like 6 in or a foot Nothing to be for me to be concerned
about Um the house his home is essentially uh side by side with the garage and extending back Um so the uh addition that's being proposed doesn't
even go as far back as his his home goes a little further Yeah he has a patio back there that again if if we stayed in the billable zone to get the square footage that we're looking for At that point we would be covering parts of his patio This way we don't we don't do that
And then to answer your question of what's there is there's the beyond the the the setback there's the shrub stone wall and then like a mulch area about 5t and then there's a little bit of a sideyard on their end Thank you And are
you taking down any trees to do this No All right Um I can I'll constitute the board as everyone but me Um do we have a motion for this We have a lot of examples of this type of thing to write
So there's a there's a pretty easy template I'm happy to any templates or anything I'm happy to make the motion if somebody else wants to sign up for um I had to write Tony's last time so Tony should write You did Yeah she did It was
confusion It wasn't your It wasn't your fault but you're up I'll write this one All right You want me to make the motion I'll make a motion for petition 253 at 49 View Drive to make a finding
that the existing the proposed um work will not increase the non-conforming nature of the existing nonconformity which is the 5.9
foot sideyard setback Um and that's really it It's very simple with the opt Do you have a second Second All in favor I I All right So you have your relief that will be written up and it's a um it's a finding rather than a
special permit Thank you Thank you So what do we what should we do next I guess So the um that will be submitted within how many days I'm sure we'll get it done soon I'm going to do the other the first one tonight Um and send it over to Marissa
will you'll contact them Yeah What happens is we'll the board will submit the decision hopefully within the next I would say by the end of next week and then that has to stay with the town clerk for 20 days that it runs through an appeal period Anybody can come forward and appeal the decision and then
at the end of that appeal period provided nobody came forward Then it gets released to you and it just has to get recorded at the registry of deeds and then submit that to the building department Show that it's been recorded and then you can um pull your permit So we should wait for all this before going
to the building Yeah Because once once the the paperwork is filed by the board with us then it is the appeal period kicks in and you can't do anything during that period because anybody could come forward in less than a month So yeah 20 days Thank you very much Thank you for Thank you All right Thank you
guys Can we get a motion to adjourn To adjourn All right All in favor I