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Okay, we're okay. Um, good evening and welcome to the August 4th select board meeting. If you could Oh, we are being recorded. If you could please rise for the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

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republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay, we will Yes. >> want to tell people we're not talking about Iraq in case they want to go. >> Okay. Um so we are going to take one

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matter out of order very quickly. Um the item number three under new and old business. The earth removal advisory joint uh committee joint meeting and public hearing is being rescheduled. So if you are here for that portion of the evening, we will not be discussing it on

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this agenda. Uh we will be reposting it for a public hearing in September. So just in case that way you don't have to stick around. All right, moving on to the town administrator's report. >> Thank you. Um, I just wanted to start by

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recognizing the curbside collection transition team. Um, there's been a number of folks that have been really important over the last couple of months, but really in the last two weeks as we've been working through the delivery of the recycling carts and the change in service this week. So, uh, I

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really want to, you know, make sure that a change of this scale that touches every household in the town basically, um, has required a lot of hands to go as smoothly as it has. I know there's still a learning curve ahead and we're still trying to catch up to a handful of changes, but it has been quite an effort

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so far. I want to thank Gan and Natalie uh the customer service team uh and really everyone in town hall who have fielded an extraordinary volume of questions uh in person by phone and email uh and have kept things moving every day. They've been the public face along with Shannon of this transition

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and they've handled it with patience and humor and I really appreciate that. The solid waste advisory committee has been a hu a huge partner particularly for Gino and I but also for all of us at town hall uh as we've worked to make sure the communications are clear, they're reflective of the information residents need and want uh and assisting

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us with verifying sort of the the information on the ground as things have been going the last couple of weeks. Uh I want to call out the DPW staff. They've worked incredibly hard over the last week and continue to this week um to make sure that the swaps for smaller barrels have gone well, that pickups and

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changes that have been occurring are handled as smoothly as possible. And that's really been something that all of them have pitched in on. And this is on top of the duties that they're responsible for on a daily basis. I do want to, you know, I mentioned her, but I want to really call out Shannon's effort because she has been the one that

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has kept the whole team together. Thank you. Uh she has answered calls and emails. Uh if you have emailed or called the trash phone number or email, you are talking to Shannon almost exclusively. She's made sure that everyone at town hall is helping to solve those issues. And I

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really appreciate all of your help, Shannon. Um so that's been, you know, a big part of the last two weeks. Uh, I wanted to give a a brief update on the King's Beach study that's been going on because we do have um the effort to get flow data and other things over uh at

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Kings Beach and in the um Stacy's Brook Culbert as well. The initial effort uh had left uh a level of specificity that we were looking for on the table and we had not yet gotten there. Uh thanks to George Allen, Kelly, uh Began, Wayne,

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Gino, and others. Um we've worked with Kleinfelder and flow assessment, their vendor to underline the importance of that information to us as sort of task number one for us. And that was something that the previous board had all identified as being really important that we understand what the sort of contribution on each side is. So, uh

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we've worked very closely with them. And over the last couple of weeks, they've added a couple of additional meters further upstream. You may have seen them uh during the installation process at Colombia and Pine uh or on Colombia and on PineE and the initial data we're getting. We're optimistic it's starting to line up with the theories that we had

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about what the flow looked like. Um so we're we're looking forward to getting more information and we're uh thankful for their partnership in that. Uh, I know that there had been some reporting last week about beach access at Wales Beach, and I just wanted I let the board know. I want to let everyone else know

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that the conservation commission along with uh, community development is working closely with our town council to to review all of the settlements, agreements uh, and and lawsuits actually that have uh, contributed to this confusion over the years. And we're trying to take another close look at this to understand what access rights

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exist, what may need to be done. Uh and I wanted to make sure the board was aware and the community at large is aware as well that we are moving forward trying to gather as much information as possible. Um I wanted to give a brief update on 89 Burl Street as well. The design is continuing to pro progress

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there. It has been a Max and Marzy effort to this point. We are setting up time uh with potential users in the weeks ahead to get some feedback. Uh the idea there will be to understand if the the design that we put together meets the needs that we anticipate. And then uh you'll also be hearing a little bit

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later tonight there's a a zoning bylaw that would also need to be uh addressed as we go into town meeting that that will be part of this whole effort but we're trying to do parallel track so we're ready to go. Uh finally on the community event side I wanted to um let folks know that Swamptoberfest will not

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be taking place this year. Um as the board is aware and I think many much many of the community is as well the event depends heavily on town staff capacity as well as the yach club. Um, and this year, uh, you know, we decided to take a year off and and work in

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partnership to see if we can re reimagine an even better event for next year. So, we will be back to you in the future to talk about that a little bit. And then I also wanted to highlight that this Sunday is the block the block party on Humphrey Street. So, we hope we see everyone there in support of the community and the businesses in the

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area. And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions folks may have. I have um a question on on on the actual new recycling trash cans. So, do people who asked for the 65, do

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they all have the 65s? >> At this time, um we have deployed I want to say almost 200 and we will be um working on the weight list. So, we'll have a new delivery of additional barrels. And so what is the ETA on the

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new delivery? >> We'll be able to provide that on Friday. >> And so the people that are on that wait list >> will receive an email on Friday with the estimated um date too. >> Great. Um some of the I have had uh over the weekend the number of people stop by

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and they just they're saying even 65 is too big and I would like in the future for us to consider the possibility of smaller 35 even if it's even if it means we're just picking up 50 20 30 I just want to have some type of consideration

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to think about it because there are people that are in their extreme senior that really don't consume very much and they're saying that they really would like to see something even smaller. So, I just want to have a conversation at some point. So, when you're ordering, if

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you could find out, you know, what what the 30 something smaller similar to our trash, what that costs and what the minimum purchases are, that'd be great. Um, we got that update and um where as far as um

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as far as uh Kings Beach besides Kings Beach, do you have any idea when the report is coming from Kleinfelder on that that updated report that we used our ARPA money on? >> No, I'll check with Marzy on that. >> Okay, that's all I that's the only

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questions I have. >> Additional questions? Uh yeah, actually Nick, so can you give a little bit more detail about this situation at Wills Beach or whatever they whatever like what what are we really talking about? Is this So from my understanding, it's a

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homeowner that thinks they have rights to that beach. That's what the discrepancy is. >> And it in its simplest form, yeah, there is a disagreement over access based on ownership. And there were a number of cases. I think one went all the way to

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the SJC >> and settlements that I know KP has taken a look in the past >> and so in light of you know the sort of new um it's not new information but new scenario in the space we want to take a look at that understand exactly what any

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rights and access may be and if there are any remedies that we may pursue uh we would come back to you all with those. >> So KP does have it now >> correct. Okay, great. >> I'm good for now.

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>> Ted is online, correct? I can't see the names on the um on the screen, so I am >> Okay. Do you have Are you good, Ted? >> I'm good. Thank you, Katie. >> You're welcome. >> Thanks, Nick. >> Okay, so um we will move on to public

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comments. Um I have another a number of public comments that came in through email and I'll read them at the end. Um, but if those of you who are here for public comment, if you could please line up at the microphone, it's going to be three minutes. Please state your name and address. Um, and our town

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administrator will help me keep time because he's so good at it. Thank you, Nick. The small person in the room. Thank you. My name is Kathy Smith Scalletki and I don't usually use the Smith, but I am

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today because I'm four generations Swampscott. My grandfather, my father, my uncles, my aunts, myself, and my daughter and her husband and my grandchildren.

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We I'm just I take so personally this town. I remember watching the new ocean house burn down. Um I went to Swampscott High, Junior

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High, High School. This is my town. I am I'm so worried about the thought of you guys deciding to build at the Hawthorne residential.

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We We need this town to stay beautiful and a part of history. We've got so much history. I mean, when I when I would drive home from when

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I would fly in from college and drive home, the first thing that made me feel like I was home was the Hawthorne. I grew up with the Athenuses. We all that have grown up in this town have a

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piece of the Hawthorne. There are so many incredible things that we could do there. I'm an interior designer. I've had a company for 30 years. That building is spectacular. It lends

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itself to so many opportunities. And I'm not going to take up anybody's time going through it, but there there is multiple ways of generating money coming into the town, coming into Swampscott

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without building more homes, without taking up more land in that way. And and I I just feel so heartfelt about standing here and saying

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to you, please please do not do not build condominiums. We don't need more condominiums. We need we need something that's fun and family oriented and

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I don't know, whatever. I mean, I've already sent in all kinds of ideas. I was in California and I was like, "Oh my god, this is what Solom should be." So, that's why I'm here and I appreciate you listening.

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Hi, Cabat Nickel Street. Um, here about the trash. Just a little history lesson. This is from 1994. This is a rubbish fee. Okay, we started at 63 $63

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twice a year again 1995 up to $130. Few years later rolled into the tax base. If you take out the tax base on my house, that $130 is now 705. When this was rolled into the tax base,

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residents were told that there would be no more fees, that it would be included in the tax base. We've since been feed overthrow bags, large item fees, and now we're being feed if we want to change our our barrel that's too big. When mine was dropped off, the center balance on

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those are wrong and it went forward almost walked over the thing. Talking to a buddy of mine in Marblehead the other day, evidently they got the same barrels over there month ago. I guess there's a woman who went

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head over the barrel, cut her head open. I mean, why are we being feed when we were told we weren't going to be feed? It was rolled into the tax base and now you're getting 70590 from me instead of 130. So, I just wanted to rebr it to the attention of the board, to the solid

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waste committee. You're getting a lot more money than you were the town. And I don't know why we're being feed for rubbish when we were told we wouldn't be. Go back in the history books, take a look. Thank you. >> Hello, Olaridge Banks Terrace. Um, I'm

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here to talk to you again about the Hawthorne property. And the one thing I wanted to talk about was just at the last meeting there was a lot of discussion about residential, whether to have it, whether or not to have it. I think most of the members of the board had stated that they would prefer not to

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have it, but there was also discussion about potentially leaving it open to the developer. So, if they can make money and they need residential to do it, and I would just say that I don't think we should try to guess what the developer would need. But if we prefer not to have

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residential, put out the RFP to say we prefer not to have residential and then leave the decision of what to include or not include for a developer to make it profitable for them up to them. But just to let them know that residential is something we would not prefer because if

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you say, "Yeah, we're open to it," you're going to get it. So that's my piece. Thank you. Good evening. I'm Jim Olivetti. Uh I live on 86 Farragate Road with my wife. Uh we've lived here for 15 years and I

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currently serve as a member of the town's tree committee. I'm here to share my views on the Hawthorne RFP which is on the agenda tonight. On discussion number two, residential use. I'm against any inclusion of residential use as a

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possible consideration in the RFP. I believe the residents of Swampscott supported the purchase of the land the Hawthorne stands on to create a public good that would bring benefits to all, not just to a wealthy few who would

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purchase or lease luxury condos on this site. The existing condos on Humphrey Street, including the massive Concordia, certainly are all the exclusive housing options we need downtown. On discussion number three, open space

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proportion. I believe the majority of the Hawthorne property should be devoted to open space. That would include plantings, perennials, flowering shrubs, native trees, an accessible path along the

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cliffside, benches, and picnic tables to encourage folks to meet and talk or just take in the ocean views. Perhaps a small performance shell, and some features for children, such as a splash pad, swings,

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and climbing apparatus, etc. Such an open space park would, to my mind, be an added encouragement for customers to patronize the new boutique hotel across Humphrey Street. While I'm not opposed to inclus

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including dining options on the property, I feel that Sam Walker and the other soontobe added restaurants in Vinnen Square lessen the need to also include them in the RFP. I am sympathetic to those that call for

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parking on the Hawthorne site. I have the privilege of being walking distance from Rosa Brothers where I get my haircuts and Lincoln's Landing for breakfast and Kell's Cream for a cone. It does seem to me a waste of what is

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probably the most precious piece of public property that Swampscott taxpayers own to cover it with asphalt. I would ask the select board to look for other parking management options and not

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include parking in the Hawthorne RFP. Finally, on discussion number five, building demo or reuse. To my mind, town meeting did not vote to purchase a 50-year-old plus restaurant.

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The Hawthorne building sits where the open space parkland naturally would be cited at the W's edge. I would encourage the select board to not clutter the possibility of building reuse in the

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RFP. Thank you. >> Okay, I timed this. This is three minutes. Uh, hi. I'm Tanya Lillick. I'm uh 26 Kings Beach Terrace and I'm also chair of the Open Space and Recreation Plan Committee. My primary comment tonight is

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to urge the select board to allow for the majority of the Hawthorne property to be open space 70% or more. There should be no residential units, only minimal parking, and the existing building should be demolished. Now I will speak to why but I'm going to use

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the economic benefits of open space because I think a lot of people are concerned about how we would fund something like this. So there is and I have references for all of this which I can provide. Uh there is a return on open space. Research has shown that parks and green spaces return between $4

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and $11 for every dollar invested. In Vermont, conservation returns $9 to the economy, and in Maine, it is as much as $11. Residential development costs towns money. Studies show that residential development costs the town more money in

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terms of added services, schools, police, sewer, and the like than the property provides the town in real estate taxes. In New England, for every $1 in tax money that a resident brings into the town, it costs the town on average a$110 to provide services to

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that residents. If land is preserved as open space, the land raises property values, increasing the tax base without increasing taxes. Commercial development is not always a money maker. New commercial development spurs residential growth, requiring

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greater services and infrastructure capabilities. It increases traffic pollution and noise and contributes to the loss of community character and identity. Tourism and outdoor recreation is beneficial. Travelers and residents to parks, trails, and other conserved lands

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spend money locally supporting local businesses. Parks can be revenue generators. And I'm going to use Lynch Park and Beverly as an example. Waterfront Park is considered the crown jewel of Beverly as it offers two beautiful beaches, a rose garden, a splash pad, a playground, and

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lots of open space along the coastline. Private event rental. Beverly generates additional revenue by renting out the property for weddings, events, and photography permits. Uh commercial concessions bids are issued to private vendors to run local

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food concession stands. As you can see, although the economic benefits are not always directly seen, they are there. Having a park is a win-win for both the town economics as well as town beauty, health, and community. Once the space is developed, it rarely goes back to open

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space. Let's do the right thing for the town of Swampscott and give our residents a beautiful waterfront park for many generations to enjoy. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Tony Banditz, uh, Precinct 4. I'm a member of the Open

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Space Committee and also the nonprofit Swampscott Conservancy. And I'm going to speak briefly also in support of open space at the Hawthon. I'm not a native of Massachusetts. I grew up in a suburb of New York City at

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a time when the surrounding farms instead of continuing to grow corn started to grow levitons. Bit by bit, acre by acre, the farmland and other open space in my town was lost to residential and commercial

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development. There is very little open space left. The town is now crowded and congested. There's no space to breathe. I see something similar happening here in Swampscott.

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Over the years, development has eaten up most of all the town's open space, especially the prime real estate along the water. This is infor unfortunate because what makes Swampscott unique is

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its sea coast. It gives the residents a sense of place. The coast should be open, not closed to the public. The town has a chance with the Hawthorne property to give current and more importantly future residents the gift of

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coastal open space at the gateway to our town and not turn this property into yet another cluster of commercial or heavens forbid residential buildings that are going to block access and views of our

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beautiful coastline. This will cost money, but there are many reasons why an investment in open space should not be lost here. And why and while filling that property with buildings some several stories high

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would be a very would be a terrible mistake. The reasons um for open space are set out in a May 15th letter that several committees, town committees, open space, the tree committee, climate action, and the

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conservation commiss conservancy, excuse me, the conservation commission, uh and the nonprofit swamps conservancy sent to the select board. I urge everybody to read that letter. It's detailed. It's uh

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you can get a link to it on the conservy's website which is just swampscottconserveny1word.org. I've also brought some handouts which summarize >> 30 seconds. >> Okay, I'm done almost. >> Let me know. >> I've also brought some handouts which I

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can leave up front if anybody wants to grab one and just peruse it. Thank you very much. And I urge you to get in touch with the select board and the town administrator and urge that they consider primarily open space for the

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hawthone property. Thank you. Hi, my name is Victoria Keller. I'm on Philips Beach Avenue in Swam and I am also here as an open space committee member and also a resident and um I guess I would start out by saying I was

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looking for minutes from the last meeting and I didn't see any online and uh I was concerned because I know this is an issue that's very very important to lots and lots of residents of course I know you all know that as well but in terms of notice to what's going on here what we're talking about the idea that

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there are not minutes from last last uh meeting online where people can get informed and uh be able to reach out to all of you concerned me. Um likewise I I you know can say when this when the town

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decided to purchase this property it's it there was not as as far as I know a clear uh sense of what was going to happen with this property but there was a clear sense that it was not going to become residential property. We have lots and lots of residential property

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that has been purchased and turned into residences in this in this town. This was not for that. This was for the town's people to be able to enjoy themselves in this town over by the beachside. I think it is absolutely a matter of class to take this property

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per have have it only accessible to people who are either I don't know what the idea is renting buying whatever it is those are not going to be towns people that are coming in generally speaking those are going to be out of towners who are going to come in and take these property that it's not fair to the town people that asked you that

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that allowed for this per the purchase of this property this property should remain for the town's people it was voted on for the town's people and that's where it should remain Um, see if I have anything else here. Okay, I think that's it. Thank you very

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much. >> Thank you. Please go ahead. >> We if you have your hand up online, we do see you. We will come to you next after uh Mr. W. >> Uh Bri Brian Watson, Oak Road. Um, I

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watched your meeting last uh time and uh I know there is some difference of opinion about residential on the site, some ambivalence and the select board is trying to consider all sides on this. Um, I'm standing up because I think that a a mixeduse project uh would be

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appropriate for the site. Um, I'd like to see our town and our select board get away from thinking that it's either all condos or it's all park or it's, you know, it's one thing or the other. Many of these things are not mutually exclusive. Um when we think about

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residential, if we if we think about some residential on this site, the word sum is important. And uh this isn't uh this wouldn't in a mixeduse project, the residential use would be one component of many. It wouldn't be the the tail

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wagging the dog. It would be one one element. And we could refine in the RFP if we have concerns about uh residential. We can refine what we prefer as residential. We could specify either condos or apartments. We could

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specify a maximum number in the RFP. We could say no project shall have more than eight or 10 apartments. You know, we could refine and define things uh so that it's not all one or all the other. We could even some communities set, you

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know, I hear concerns about wealthy people moving in and families, you know, stressing our systems and so forth. Some communities have responded to that sort of thing in their town centers by setting maximum square footages of the apartments. So, in the RFP, it's perfectly legitimate, for example, to

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say no unit, whether condo or apartment, no unit shall exceed 800 square feet or 1,000 square feet or whatever the square feet is that we think is appropriate. that tends to get get you either either buyers or renters who would be, you know, uh either elderly without a home

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uh or or young renters. You're way less apt to get, you know, extremely wealthy people if that's not a goal. Um, the other thing I heard mentioned last time was that somehow the the these renters, if there are eight renters or 10 renters, these renters would hold

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some magic formula over the town by by where they could take ownership of the courtyard and they could just be a nuisance. That that's really not how it works in towns. Uh, you you know, if there are complaints and they're reasonable, the town would listen to them and negotiate them just as we do now with parking on Cedar Hill terrace

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or other issues in town. there. The town has agency, too. Uh, and the other thing is people in these projects self- select. If a condo buyer was looking at at a unit on this site or an apartment dweller, he sees where he's moving. He sees what he's going to move. If it's a

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courtyard scheme, say say site plan G1, just for argument sake, he sees a courtyard. It's he knows it's a public courtyard. It's got cafes. It's got restaurants. There tends to be a self- selection involved. I was I was 14 years a tenant at Pickering War in Salem.

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First floor was shops. Second floor was offices. Third floor was residential. People moved in or rented knowing where you know what they were going to get. You can smell the hamburgers on the second floor. So um it does have it does sort itself out. Uh okay la times up. Y

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>> okay and then the last very last thought is any any good project any successful project which we want >> however put together >> will by its nature reinforce both the the hotel Hadley and the uh Humphrey Street overlay district its very success

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will contribute to the success of the other projects. So I just encourage the select board in the town think in terms of the grays not the absolutes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> We will uh take

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Okay. Um, Miss Newman, first the first hand raised online. >> Hi. >> Hi. Please go ahead. >> Hello. >> Um, Tiff Newman, 20 Street Precinct One.

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So, I've been here since 1966 and I've watched Swampscott become more and more crowded. I agree with Jim Alvi when he said that the condos on Humphrey Street are enough for the downtown.

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Watching Captain Jack become the Concordian from across the street at Newman's Bakery was sad and disappointing and historically it seemed to be the beginning of the end. I have no objection to mixed use of business

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and open space at the Hawland site, but please don't allow housing to become part of it. Thank you. >> Thank you. And Miss Laauo. >> Hi folks. Can you hear me? Okay. >> Yes. Thank you.

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>> Okay. Thank you, Kitty. Um, my name is Laura Lao. 15 at Lro Town meeting member precinct 3. Tonight I speak once again about the process of attempting to harness public input on topics small and large that have lasting effects on our

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community members. The problem remains that there is no written process to alert and inform community members that a topic is scheduled to be reviewed. If there is some process, it is ineffective or not followed. This includes not only

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the elected board members at the elected boards and the committees and advisory but the committees and advisory boards. There are obvious topics that will have lasting impact on our town that people should me be made aware of over and over

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again if people do not show up or low turnout assume the message is not getting out. People don't let uh please don't let people's interest in all things just trash allow you to think that all you have uh to talk about is trash at these meetings. Think like a

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teacher. Trick them into knowing more information. If people are showing up for trash meetings, layer in all the important topics because all the topics are important and advertise in uh and advertise important upcoming events in

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that way. bundling things into a newsletter and saying you told people is simply not effective in getting the word out on important legacy properties like Hadley and Hawthorne. Plainly, I'm very disappointed that the important meeting on Hadley held on July 7th was not given

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in the importance of a standalone email notification. Similarly, these Hawthorne meetings leading up to an RFP on a property that we bought and were shown images of a park, but the language does not support that standalone distinction. We are mis we were misled, I believe,

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intentionally. It was rushed through in another hurry, hurry, we have to do this or else. And the time to more closely review was not available at town meeting that night. I believe strongly the select board should not have the power to create an RFP without town meeting

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review. Would that be chaos? Yes, it would be. But it would give the decisions more weight to know that more eyes have a long view of this incredibly important, tremendously significant decision that will forever change the landscape of our seaside community with

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all which we all hold so dearly. Housing was clear not to be part of this location. This purchase was to prevent another Concordia. I certainly hope that this is not that we were not misled. A modest size multi-use building that can

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house pop-up yearround revenue of venues with rental possibility surrounded by lush open space with purpose similar to Rich Martin Park in Boston by the Children's Museum for all ages. Um, please do better. Uh, please enter this

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document entirely into record and I will email it to you all. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Miss Lao. >> Miss McDermott. >> Wow. Thank you very much. Okay. I didn't realize that was number three. Uh, Miriam McDermott, Precinct 6, Stanley

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Road. I I want to reiterate what many of the speakers tonight have said. I too am an elected town meeting member. I too attended the town meeting where this was discussed

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significantly and many people stood up including Peter Spelios, including Angelo and said this is a once in a generation opportunity. This won't come along again. Protecting the space, protecting this for generations to come.

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town meeting approved the purchase based on specific public purpose. We were told this is for the public good. Then there were meetings about the public good and how that this land would be used. If

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that purpose is changing, town meetings should once again be involved in that decision-making because if the select board can change the purpose of the use of this land, it vacates town meetings role and in many ways town meetings

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purpose. So I think we need to go take this back to town meeting if this was if this is a challenge. And I do appreciate that this is a fiscal challenge for our community, an unanticipated fiscal challenge, but this was a

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decision made in town meeting and it needs to go back to town meeting to be fixed. And I'm going to agree with Mora that having a meeting in August that is thinly advertised does not support that transparency and

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communication that the select board has been saying they're trying to do. So those are my comments. I really hope this goes back to town meeting. There will undoubtedly be a town meeting this fall and this should be on the agenda. Thank you very much for your time and

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thanks for trying to untangle this problem. >> Thank you. I have um couple more public comment that came in through email. This is from Angela Epalo. Um dear select board members, I'm writing to voice my opinion regarding tonight's agenda item

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five, discussion point two, a discussion and potential vote to decide whether residential use will be included in the future RFP for Hawthorne property. I am firmly opposed to allowing residential use at the property. By residential use, I am referring to one's permanent residence, whether rental or condominium. As we are all aware, the

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Hawthorne property is a spectacular oceanfront lot with expansive views of Nant Bay and Boston skyline. A buildable oceanfront property of this prominence and size is unprecedented anywhere on the Massachusetts coast. the site. From time to time, the prop from the time the property was purchased, the intent has

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always been to provide public access to a portion of the lot, specifically the land that borders the oceanfront, and that would it would be a green park space for the public to enjoy. Whatever redevelopment happens on the street side of the property should also be for public good, restaurants, shops, and public gathering space. This type of use

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will strengthen the businesses along Humphrey Street and would complement the hotel planned for across the street. Why residential is a bad idea? Even if residential is only one of the allowed uses mentioned in a future RFP, I feel certain the residential proposal will be all we get. Developers will line up to

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propose condo developments on the site. It's literally a no-brainer. It doesn't take any creativity. Once residents occupy a space like the Hawthorne in the sense of public ownership will diminish. The public use goes away. Even if there is a path to the park, it doesn't feel like it will be ours anymore. The connection to Humphrey Street business

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community would be virtually dead. There is no benefit except for the developers and the new owners to our property. We don't need to float the residential idea out there to find out what will happen. We already know. In fact, before we bought the property from the Athenus family, Leot McCall, a large

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developmental a large development firm, had signed an agreement with them to develop 64 luxury condos on the site. Preventing that from happening was one of the reasons we decided to buy the property. If residential is on the table, how do we encourage any other kind of creative use or synergenic partnership? if there are other ways to

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derive tax revenue for the town without taking the easy lazy route of condos. Zoning. We should not be downsizing a commercially zoned property and killing our commercial tax base. This is the topic that the planning board is addressing throughout the Humphrey Street overlay. Our residential development requires parking. Luxury

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condors will require more than one and a half spaces per unit and we're already woefully short on parking in this area. The public demand for parking is great as evidenced by activity in this area over the past few months. In my opinion, we do ourselves a great deal a great disservice by allowing any residential use of the Hawthorne site. Residential

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use one diminishes our public use of the space. Two, hurts existing businesses on Humphrey Street by a loss of connectivity of stitching the back streets the street back together creates three creates more parking scarcity. Four has no synergy with the hotel. I'm writing this as a private citizen, but

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my comments are informed by 16 years of experience on the planning board. Thank you for your time. Angela Pelo 366 Puritan Road. Additionally, I have comment from Shauna Vera. Good evening. I'm writing you in regards to an agenda item up for discussion during the select board meeting on August 4th. I'm not

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able to attend, but submit my public comment to be included in the meeting minutes. I'm writing to express my strong support for an RFP that prioritizes a proposal with the majority of site preserved as open space. As a working parent with two young children and pets, I moved to Swampscott in large part due to the oceanfront and the

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opportunities that it would provide my family. Shortly after moving here in 2019, I heard of the town's purchase of the Hawthorne property and was overjoyed to hear that it was intended to be preserved uh for preserving open space along the waterfront. Throughout this process, residents have consistently and

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overwhelmingly voiced a desire for a future that maintains significant open space on the property. Public engagement has only has value when it is meaning when it meaningfully informs decision-making. And the feedback received has been clear. The community wants a proposal that preserves the site's unique character while creating a

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welcoming place for residents and visitors alike. Prioritizing open space does not mean sacrificing economic opportunity. Thoughtful planning can successfully balance public access with revenue generating uses. A well-designed waterfront park can host seasonal events, food vendors, community markets, concessions, and other carefully

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integrated amenities that generate ongoing revenue while preserving the public benefit of open space. A strong example can be found at Lynch Park, Beverly, where expansive open space is complemented by attractions and programming that make it a vibrant community destination. Our town has the

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advantage that Lynch Park does not. A waterfront property situated alongside an emerging restaurant district. The combination of scenic waterfront access and exciting new dining opportunities created uh nearby creates an opportunity to establish a destination that encourages visitors to spend time in town, support local business, and

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strengthen our local economy. This is a rare opportunity to create a lasting community asset that reflects the priorities residents have repeatedly expressed. I respectfully urge the select board to ensure the RFP strongly encourages proposals that preserve a majority of the property as open space while allowing for complimentary revenue

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gathering amenities that enhance not diminish the public experience. Thank you for your consideration and for your continued service to the community. Shauna Vera Precinct One. And finally, unless I've missed something, um I have public comment from Brian Longan. I'm

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respectfully urging the town to ensure that the RFP for the Hawthorne property reflects the uh properties consistently expressed by residents throughout the public engagement process and request that my comments are included in tonight's meeting minutes. As the board considers the direction of the property, I encourage you to include the following

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guiding principles into the RFP. One, no residential development. The Hawthorne property represents a rare opportunity to create a lasting public asset rather than additional housing. Once this land is developed for residential use, the opportunity is permanently lost. To preserve a substantial majority of the

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site for open space, at least 70% of the property should remain open space, providing opportunities for passive recreation, environmental preservation, and public enjoyment. Reserving a limited portion of the site for small-cale community oriented commercial use such as seasonal vendors or modest cafes would complement the park without

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detracting from its primary purpose. Three, provide only minimal parking. Parking should be limited to fewer than 30 spaces. is primarily to accommodate visitors with mobility challenges and to address the parking needs identified by the town's citizens survey. A large parking lot would unnecessarily reduce

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valuable green space and encourage on automobile traffic rather than preserving the site's character or demolish an existing building. The current structure no longer serves the community well and constrains the site's potential. Removing it would create greater flexibility for thoughtful site design while eliminating future

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maintenance and liability concerns. The Hawthorne property is one of the few remaining opportunities to create a signature public open space for future generations. The RFP should clearly communicate that the town's vision is centered on conservation, recreation, accessibility, and limited complimentary amenities, not residential development.

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Thank you for consideration, your continued work on behalf of the community. I appreciate the thoughtful deliberation that has gone into this important decision and hope these priorities will be reflected in a final RFP. Sincerely, Brian Long, Open Space Committee. Okay, thank you everybody's patience for

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public comment. That concludes this part of the evening and we will move along to old and new business. Um we will now move to the promotions and recognition section. We had a couple of these slated for last time and we're now coordinating

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them um once a quarter, but we would be remiss if we didn't have these folks come in and be recognized. So, >> yep. I I just have a little bit to read about the three folks that we're recognizing tonight. And if we could if I could get through this and then we can ask all three and their families if here

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to come down maybe to take a photo with the board. Does that work? >> Sure. >> Okay, great. Uh I'd like to start with Heidi. Uh Heidi's um Heidi Weir is retiring from her role as the director of aging services here in Swansott. Uh she brought to this role uh a lifetime

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of experience with older adults uh not just in this area but uh in New York as well. Um her commitment to this work has been personal. She grew up in Swampscott uh returned here to raise her family, served in the Council on Aging and helped to establish uh Swampscott for

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all ages alongside Bob who is uh sitting with her tonight. Um, when the director of aging services position became available, Heidi jumped at that opportunity to bring that experience home and to make a huge difference in the community that she loves that's become such a big part of her life. Um,

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during her tenure, the the senior center grew not only in the number of programs, but also in the range of residents that it served uh in the ways that it supported the community. Heidi put together a great team with Sabrina, Sonia, and many others. uh and the entire team worked to create a welcoming, active and responsive center

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uh where adults could older adults could stay engaged, get the support they need and find ways to thrive here in the community. Um one of the most important accomplishments certainly it's something that stands out to me was helping to uh establish Seaglass Village which expanded the ability of the community to

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support and provide uh meaningful connections for for folks uh and also you know help caregivers as well. Um Heidi's broader commitment to making Swanson a more understanding and inclusive community also include the forget me not initiative which helped not only businesses but importantly for

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me town employees to understand ways that we could best support older adults uh when they may have needs that they don't express or that we need to identify on our own and provide support that's necessary. Um Heidi helped to expand the senior center programming, securing grants, um starting new initiatives, uh you know, and advancing

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the purchase of the electric electric van to improve our transportation and access and the center continued to evolve in response to the changing needs of the community. Her impact is goes well beyond the walls of the senior center, but we really wanted to thank you for your service. Uh and we appreciate all that you did in your time here. Thank you.

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>> THANK YOU. NICK, BEFORE YOU MOVE ON, I HAVE um Sabrina couldn't make it tonight because she is at home um helping her husband recover from a little procedure and there's also a senior center trip to the Willows tonight which is being coordinated which is why there are not

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more folks here to um enjoy in Heidi's retirement. However, she sent a little note and I wanted to read it. Um, sad to miss the well-deserved recognition of the hard work and vision that Heidi Weir provided the Council on Aging. She worked tirelessly to promote the health and well-being of older adults in our

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community and succeeded in increasing awareness, acception, acceptance, and inclusion for those living with memory loss and their caregivers. Heidi expanded the operations of the senior center under extremely challenging circumstances. Faced with the reopening the senior of the senior center after

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the pandemic, Heidi increased the operating hours of the center, grew the programming, transportation, food services, and volunteerism. She created countless community partnerships with organizations like Seag Seaglass Village, Elder Act, Rotary, and the

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Swampscott public schools relationship, which encourages the support of older adults through community first perspective. As a recipient of the 2026 Commonwealth Heroine Award, Heidi emo embodied her passion for community service every day in her work as the director of the Swampscott Senior

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Center. Always a visionary, her creative and resourceful grantwriting skills brought programs like Forget Me Not and Opening Minds Through Art to the Center, helped upgrade our kitchen, and even added an electric van into the cent's fleet of vehicles. As she moves on to retirement, I hope she knows how

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appreciated she is and how many lives she has touched. She has left a lasting impact on the team she created and on everyone she has helped along the way. On a personal note, Sabrina says, "I'm grateful for the mentorship, steadfast guidance, encouragement, and support that Heidi provided me as director.

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Learning from her made a real difference in how I think, work, and grow. Uh, congratulations. Wishing you a retirement filled with joy, rest, and new adventures." Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Uh, next, after 31 years of dedicated service, I want to recognize

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Izzy Abrams, um, who's retiring from the Swanson Public Library, where she served as both the co-head of the department and as a children's librarian. Uh, libraries are often thought of as places to borrow books, but Izzy's career has been about so much more than that. For more than three decades, she helped children discover the joy of reading,

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supported families during some of their earliest learning experiences, and created a welcoming place where memories were made. Throughout her career, Izzy developed programs that became traditions for Swanscott families. Thousands of childrens attended her story times, created projects during Messy Mondays, enjoyed teddy bear

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picnics, and explored the world the natural world around them through visits to the tide pools at King's Beach. She also helped organize other memorable events such as the toy store, the story train to Rockport, bringing families together, bringing together families from communities along the rail line for a day of stories and adventure. These

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programs were more than just activities. They gave children an opportunity to learn, explore, and build confidence on their own and to develop a lifelong connection not only to books, but to the library. Izzy's contributions extend beyond children's programming. For more than 20 years, she's she led the

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library's popular titles book discussion group and created a community of readers and friendship that will continue today and long after her service. Over the course of 31 years, as he has touched thousands of lives in ways that will continue after her retirement. Many of the children she once welcomed are now

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returning with children of their own. That's a remarkable testament to both the length of her service and the lasting difference she's made here in town. And on behalf of the town, the board of trustees and the friends as well as the staff and generations of patrons, we want to thank you for your service to the library.

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And last but not least is uh Glenn Bartum. Long before Glenn joined the fire department, he had dedicated himself to learning everything he could about firefighting. He spent time with other departments. He observed Swap Scott firefighters at work and was asking questions and learning. Glenn was

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preparing himself for a career that he knew he wanted, serving the community that he loved as a firefighter. The late firefighter Mickey Depollo was a particularly important influence on Glenn, and it's no coincidence that Glenn would later name his son Jake. In May 1999, Glenn achieved his goal when

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he was appointed to the fire department here in Swampscott. He brought with him the considerable skills he had developed as a trained carpenter and also the extraordinary passion for public service and for firefighting. Fires in serious accidents may receive uh much of the attention when people

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think about the work of a firefighter. And Glenn was known for his dependable presence and his steady hand on those scenes. But those who served alongside him uh would likely say that his compassion and skill were most evident when he was providing emergency medical care. Over the course of his career, Glenn was a cal calming and reassuring

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presence for hundreds of residents in their hundreds of residents and their families, many of whom encountered him on one of the most difficult days that they would face in their lives. His compassion, professionalism, and commitment to serving others set an example for generations of young firefighters. It's clear from those who have served with him and the career he

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built that he made a lasting impact on the fire department here in Swampscott, but more importantly the broader community. His legacy of service will endure and he'll be missed here in the department. To Glenn's wife Joanna and daughter Alexa, is that Alexa? Did I say that right?

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Sorry. Uh and Jake and Alicia who are not here. Uh thank you for sharing him and allowing him to serve the community for so long. We will be forever appreciative of his service. Thank you very much. Glenn, >> how many We ask folks to come down and take >> Glenn. How many years?

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>> 27. >> 30 years. >> 30 years. >> 30 years. >> Thank you very much. Could we ask the the three folks to come down and take a photo with the board? Yeah. >> Please, please. That's the craziest part of

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>> this right here. All right. Thank you so much. Oh, >> no. Yeah, right. Please. >> The whole police fire department showed up. >> Is that nice?

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>> Yeah, it is. Shoot. Well, if that doesn't prove that public service is a labor of love, I don't know what else could considering if we added up their years, we'd hit almost a century of public service, which is incredible. So, thank you um for

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allowing them the recognition they certainly deserve. And we will now move on to uh a brief presentation by the clerk. If you're ready, I am. Wonderful. >> I'm just gonna share. >> Okay, Nick's gonna share.

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>> Bob, can you just close that door? >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Going to have a party out there. >> Ready? Please. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for having me again. I think this is the second time in a row for your meetings that I've attended. Tonight, we

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have a couple things in front of you. One is the approval of the town election warrant. The second is the appointment of the poll workers. The third is the update that we're going to go through right now. And the fourth is the appointment of the registar seat that we have been looking to fill. to give an

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update on what's coming soon for the clerk's office and elections. The September 1st state primary and the November 3rd state election are coming up this fall, September 1st and November 3rd. Right now, we're of course working for the September election. We've mailed

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out,69 ballots to voters that have requested them and a batch of 278 going out tomorrow. On top of the vote by mail we're processing, we are processing a mailing that went out for inactive voters. So voters who did not return

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their 2026 annual census were made inactive as of June 1st. Little side note, inactive does not mean that voters are no longer registered to vote. They are just listed as inactive on the voter list because we haven't heard from them. And they simply have to provide proof of

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residence at the polls because we did not get their proof of residence from their census. We have received 872 of the over 2,800 that we mailed back. So,

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currently we have 1895 voters still inactive. 1,895. We're waiting to get back. So, if you are a voter and listening, please return your inactive mailing if you have received it. From that mailing, we were able to delete 51 voters that have left

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town to go to other towns in Massachusetts or outside of Massachusetts or even overseas out of the country. When they return that, we can delete them because they signed it. And this is keeping our voter roles accurate and current going through all

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that. The next thing is the election calendar. I left a copy for you with your packets this evening and it is also located on the town clerk's page of the website. It's uploaded on there as a PDF and the second page of it is the early voting

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calendar. So that's on the town clerk web page as well. Just without clicking into a PDF, it's on the front page of the town clerk's election page that outlines everything that's coming up for the September and November elections for deadlines related to the voter

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registration deadline. If somebody moves into Swampscott out of Swampscott, they can register up until 10 days before the election. That's Saturday the 22nd. Shortly after that, we have the deadline for vote by mail application. So, voters have to turn an application into the

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town clerk's office by 5:00 p.m. on I believe it's the 25th of August. Also on the election calendar is the deadline for inperson absentee voting. So, I think that I talked a little bit about that in the spring when I spoke with you guys about the spring annual

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town election. The inperson absentee voting is anybody that is not available on election day or during early voting hours can vote from the moment we have ballots in the office up until noon the day before the election. So, if somebody misses early

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voting hours and they're going to be gone on election day, they can vote up until noon the day before the election. That is also on the election calendar. In the next coming weeks, not next week, but the week after, the 17th and 18th of August, we are going to be testing the

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voting equipment at town hall. That's going to be in the first floor conference room from 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Most likely both days. I did the second day just in case we don't finish up on Monday. It's a public process. People are welcome to come and watch it happen and view how the process works of

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testing the equipment. We test 50 of each party ballot. So together we test 100 ballots through each tabulator that's going to be used on election day and the spares in case something happens with the normal tabulators we use. That's two days in August we're doing

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testing and then I think I scheduled for 3 days in or for the November election because we are going to have either a two-page or three-page ballot. So it'll take a little longer but I wanted to mention that because it is a public process. people can come view it and see the whole thing.

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>> When are those dates again for the for the testing? >> The 17th and 18th. I will post something on the town website as well on the calendar. Yeah, I was waiting to confirm to get the ballots to make sure that I'm going to have them by that date and we got them today. So, um that will be

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going forward. The in-person absentee voting I did mention already anybody can inerson absentee vote up until noon the day before the election and notifications that we have sent out. We have increased the notifications that I believe were happening before. We did a lot for the

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town election and we're going to be doing pretty much the same for the September and November elections this year doing robocalls. Gino's sign that goes by the beach I think that is. We put stuff on the website. If anybody's listening and

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hasn't signed up for the notifications to get those robocalls or emails or text messages, please do. We like to send those out so everybody can be on the same page. And then the November 3rd state election, just to give a

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>> little um blurb on that. >> Sorry. >> That's okay. >> It was me. It was me. I don't know what happened. Sorry. >> That's okay. So, the November election right now, we are set to have nine ballot questions on the September November, excuse me, ballot. So, that's why I said two to three page ballot.

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It's going to be long. We have a lot of questions coming on. And then brief update on the street lifting books. Those are going to be ready next week. We had a little blip with the vendor. So, we're going to be making them in-house and they will be printed and ready available in our office next week for people to pick up or electronically

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if they want a version like that as well. >> What are they called? >> The street listing books. the annual street listing. >> The nosy book. >> Yes, the nosy book. Yes. >> We're not using a vendor for that. You did it in house. >> We are. Yes. >> Well, they used a vendor, but they tried to use >> We were trying to

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>> unresponsive at a point that it became clear we needed to do it ourselves. >> But we'll be looking for a new vendor. >> Great. It's going to be done by me. So, and under the election, it may not be the most beautiful like detailed street listing book, but it's going to have everything that's required. It's going

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to have the map of the precincts, the polling location, all the information that Swamp Scott voters are used to in the NOSY book. Next slide, please. Thank you. So, right here, I included a little graph of the election data from

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the local town election that we had in April. On the left, the pie chart is just the methods of voting that people used. Most people voted on election day. The yellow is voting by mail. So, all the ballots that we mailed out, we mailed out,

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I think, there we go, 68 ballots by mail and 53 were returned to us as voted. The difference in that people didn't return the ballot or they went to the polls on election day and voted. We had 399 voters during the early voting hours and 1337 on election day. I included the

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graph or the chart on the right for the in-person absentee voters just to show a little bit of history within the town. This past year for the spring election, we did 32 in-person absentee voters compared to years prior being two for the 2025 local, one in November, two in

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September, zero in the 2024 local. So, I think it was a lack of advertising of that option being available. So, as soon as we have the ballots, I've been letting voters know, you know, you can absolutely go to in person early voting, but you can do it now if you're not going to be available. Some people are traveling out of the country and they're

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leaving the first week of August where early voting hours are not available to people at that time. So, I wanted to let you guys know that we have increased accessibility to that option and advertised it more so people can take advantage of it.

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Next slide, please. review of the election committee recommendations. So, this is something that I heard very early on when I began here. One of the first things that I heard. So, we have been really paying attention to what we can improve on and

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get going forward for everybody based on what they said. The first one of the recommendations increased outreach. So, I kind of outlined what we've done. We've sent notifications. We used the town website. Mike Bryson did a voter registration booth at the Frederick Douglas event.

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So, he was there. We didn't get anybody, but he was there. Um, and we had vote by mail applications, voter registration cards, and we are constantly letting everybody know of the elections when they come in our office as well. We've used social media through the town administrator's office to spread

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information on Facebook and Instagram. And then we increase signage at town hall. So, if you've been in town hall, either through the side entrance to the library or the back door to the parking lot, you've probably seen the two posters that are on the wall with the election calendar and the early voting

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dates. Those have been hanging up since the board of registars approved the early voting dates. So, that's been a while and they won't come down till after the election. And two new things that we are doing this coming census year is with the census mailing. We are going to be

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sending vote by mail applications with that mailing to households. So, if you are a voter in Swampscott or anywhere in Massachusetts, you most likely got a vote by mail postcard that I mentioned we'd been processing. We're going to send those for the annual town election

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as well for the census forms so people can get them, return them to us. We're hoping that it would be an increase in the voters that vote by mail or that vote at all, just spreading the awareness about it. And then the second thing that we're doing, I don't have too too many details. I thought of it literally this morning at like 10:00

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a.m. We are going to make a brochure guiding I think the header is going to be Swamp Scots Guide to 2027. And it's going to have election information, trash information, information about bills, water bills, excise tax, when stuff is going out. Um, I think there

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was one other page on there, maybe recreation, but we're going to make a brochure of all important stuff that is going on through the year of 2027 that Swamp Got voters can put and residents can put on their fridge and have to reference, including the election information. That was my big one I want

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to send out to everybody so everybody gets it. Everybody has it. So, we're going to be doing that. Everybody will get that in their census in January. One of the other recommendations from the committee was the age of voters in Massachusetts. There have been a few

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cities and towns that requested special acts of the legislator legislature, excuse me, but none of them have been granted. So, you know, if we were to go down that road, we can. However, knowing what's happened with other cities and towns, whoever, if you guys want to decide to

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do that, that's totally up to you and we can work through it. I reviewed the recommendation number 10 which was to move the town election to November and unfortunately due to state statutes that is out of the options. We can do it during February, March, April,

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May or June either before or after the town meeting comes to order to do business. That's the kind of language of the statute. So, with all the information that I've been given and know about the elections, I recommend that moving election day to a

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Saturday would help voter participation. I think that's ultimately the goal for everybody, for the board, for for me, for voters. That is a great solution if town meeting were to vote on it or members of the body

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were to vote on it. That's just my recommendation from moving the election. Could I ask a question on that? Yeah. Um, have there been any surrounding towns or cities that have done that? And what has

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the increase been to their voting percentages? >> I don't necessarily have data, but I know towns do them. I can get data on. >> Sure. I'd just be curious because I think that that's an interesting thought. Um, but I would love to see sort of some

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facts behind it. I think conclusion is likely but >> just to justify a move like that would be good. >> Sure. >> Thanks. I >> have a question as well. Where does the where where does the authority lie for setting dates of the local election in terms of

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early elections or early voting hours rather? >> So I mean whereas like this the state >> dictates this what is our authority to do that? >> So for state elections the select board does not vote on early voting hours because it's mandated. So for local elections, since we're considered to be

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opting in to early voting hours, that is when the select board would vote to set the early voting hours. For the state elections, so September, November, and all the presidentials, we are given a set of guidelines that we have to follow for our population. And I looked at the

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guidelines and developed the schedule off of those guidelines. And either way, state election, local election, federal, the board of registars approves the early voting hours. >> Is there a maximum amount of time, you

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know, like is it is it in between a certain amount, 3 days, 8 days, 15 days? I mean, is there guidance in that? >> So, there's or is it Yeah, there's requirements for um what we have to schedule for the weekend, for weekdays. >> Okay.

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>> Um I actually have it right here. So the number of voters we are in the range of 5,000 to 24,999. We are required to have one day per weekend. So the Saturday, let's talk about the September one. So at least one day per weekend. So we have the Saturday

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and at least 3 hours per day that you are open and at least 6 hours total each weekend. So we have Saturday as the deadline to register to vote. We have to be in office from 9:00 to 5:00 regardless. So I did 9 to5 for the early voting hours on Saturday for the

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September election and the October early voting schedule for November. Both of those Saturdays are 9 to5. >> Okay. >> I want to say we I remember Jared coming in and talking about it before and we like maxed out the most time that we could give in order to try to get the

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most engagement. >> Um so I think that aligned with what you had done last time also. >> Yeah. And that kind of brings in why I mentioned the inperson absentee voting as well because as soon as we have ballots, I mean it's August 4th right now, somebody could come into my office

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tomorrow and vote in person absentee. So even though we don't have the designated early voting hours, people still have the opportunity to vote. And I haven't put up the sign yet, but I had a sign during the spring that it was big on a sandwich board. I don't know if some people saw it, but it said inerson

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absentee voting now available. and we had a voting booth in the old select board meeting room next to my office. We opened those doors so we would have view of who's in there and we advertised as much as we could. That stuff will be going up probably

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end of the week next week. >> Great. >> So I have a comment on the re the review from the election committee recommendations. Those are recommendations to the select board. So one of the concerns I have is age of voters. That's something that the

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select board needs to weigh in and give an opinion on before we go any further with that. >> I'm not sure when you want to put that on the agenda. If you want to put it on agenda, whatever. But >> yeah, I mean it sounds like from what

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she had just mentioned that it's it's in our the ball's in our court, but the towns and cities that have done it there aren't going anywhere. They're not going anywhere. So there there's no rush to sort of accomplish that at this point. We can certainly >> philosophically debate it, but it's it's

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not going to affectuate a real change to voting anytime soon. >> Are there any any rules or anything like can we put um signs or posters in any of the local businesses just saying, you know, voting or whatever if a business

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wants to hang a sign in their window. Are we allowed to do that? And if we are allowed to do that, can you, you know, just make some calls to some of the really popular places and even the the supermarkets that are busy or the banks, whatever?

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>> Yeah, I think it's it would be certainly allowed. The businesses, they're private. Now, Nick, please correct me if I'm wrong, but privately owned businesses, they have the right to probably put anything up as long as it would be lawful for them. I think that that would be fine. um the local election warrant we can post in wherever

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would allow us to post it but I don't think it's as like hey catch your eye there's an election coming type of thing. >> Yeah. I'm just wondering about you know like catch your eye just to remind people time you know >> you can go out and vote just to help increase that number. >> Yeah I think that's a great idea.

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>> Did I hear in correctly or incorrectly that the board needs to approve >> a ballot? No. So, how it works is the couple of things you have in front of you tonight, one of them is the election warrant. So, that is provided to us by

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the state. The language on that, we draft the one for the local election. This one was given to us by the election division. I filled in our information and then at I believe the end of the night, Shannon has the final copy for you all to sign. I'll reach out to Ted to uh get his signature at a later date.

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There was one thing I'm sorry, I forgot to mention, Wayne, with your question. the early voting hours. We are required to operate early voting during our business hours. So, I can't say, "Oh, let's have early voting from 10:00 to 2." If we're open from 8:00 to 5:00, early voting is from 8:00 to 5:00 during

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business hours. >> And if you open on Saturday, then you open whatever hours is to your to your choice. >> Correct. >> As long as it meets the requirements of the six hours per one weekend day. I didn't do Sunday. I figured, you know, give my office a break, the pole workers

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break, >> and we do have that in person absentee option all the time before that, too. >> Great job. Thank you. >> Um, can you do you need wet signature? Can you affix electronic signature to this?

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>> I'd prefer it to be a wet signature. I can wait. I think the warrant has to be posted a couple weeks before we still have some time. I can get to Ted. >> No, no, that's fine. I just want to since Ted's not here. >> I'm happy to come into your office tomorrow and just get signed that >> with such authority, Ted.

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>> Thank you. >> Sailing around the world. >> Um, thanks. >> I wish. >> Okay. So, um, do we need some is there some specific language to approve the warrant or we just need to affix our signature? >> So, the warrant you can vote to approve

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the warrant. I think it's uh titled September 1st, 2026 election warrant. I think some language along those lines would be sufficient to approve the warrant itself. Ju >> just just for the benefit of the public, myself, all all of us watching, what is

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the what's there to to deliberate one way or the other to vote or otherwise? when why why is it necessary for for a state election for the town to authorize a warrant? >> I'm almost positive it's just that way

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in in the laws like the MGL it's stated that the select board has to approve the election warrants period which covers the state warrant in nove for the November election you'll have to approve one with all of the ballot questions on it.

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So, can I make a motion to Yes, you may. >> Can I make a motion to approve the election the election warrant for September 1st? >> So, moved. >> Second. >> Okay, we'll have to do roll call because Ted's not with us. So, go ahead, Wayne. >> Uh, I >> Daniel.

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>> I >> Ted. >> Ian. Hi. >> And I am an I. >> Thanks, Katie. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much for all the information and the wonderful outreach. >> And do you want me to make a motion to

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appoint the election workers that are listed in our book? >> Do is that >> or is are you going to >> So there is specific language on that letter that I presented to you all. I did want to note that with the list of election workers, I included the positions that are in there because there are some town employees that work

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as tally clerks at the end of the night. So after their shift with the town is over, they go home, do their thing, they come and report to the high school at 7:45 to do the tally clerking at the end of the night. And we're also always looking for tally clerks. So if any members of the public, voters, residents

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want, actually it's only voters that could be my apologies, I misspoke. Voters that would like to be a tally clerk at the end of the night, please call the clerk's office and we can get that working for you. Also on the list, there are some people that are unable to work, say, the September election or they're unable to work the November

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election. We appoint a blanket list of the voters. That way, if they decide that they can move their appointment from September 1st and they want to work, that the opportunity is available to them. And if for any reason we have a large amount of people call out for

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election day, it is in the laws that within the 3 weeks before the election, the town clerk has the authority to appoint pole workers if necessary. Okay. >> Do you advertise this on the website? The only reason I'm asking is because I want to make sure that people aren't

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coming to resident comment accusing us of not being transparent. >> So, can you make sure that's on the website, too? >> I can I can certainly add it. Yeah. And we do for election workers send certified letters to the chairs of the Democratic and Republican committees asking for names to be workers. This

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time around, I did not get any names back, but this is the existing list that we've been using, but yes, we can add it on there. >> Thank you. Is there any issue with having someone that's not a resident? I see several listed on here that are not from Swampscott. >> It's just a matter of them being a

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registered voter >> in Massachusetts in the Commonwealth. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um so >> there's some language. Mary Ellen, >> can I So I'd like to make an a motion to appoint the pole workers on the list provided by the town clerk with discretion granted to the town clerk to

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assign the pole workers as she deems appropriate. >> Second. Okay. Wayne >> I >> Neil >> I >> Ted >> I >> Mary Ellen >> made the motion >> and I'm an I. >> Okay.

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>> So we also are doing the appointment of >> Michael Pette. >> Michael Pette. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So moved. >> Oh did you just make a Sure. >> Did you recommend a motion there? >> You you can move it. >> So moved. >> Danielle second. So, all in favor in

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appointing Michael Pette. We'll roll call. Yes. Thank you. Um, and this is for the board of registars for a three-year term expiring March 31st, 2029. Um, he is a registered voter in precinct 4 and he lives on 432 Humphrey Street

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and is enrolled in the Democratic Party in case you were wondering. Wayne, uh, >> I Danielle I, >> Ted, I Mary Ellen motion and I am an I. >> Okay. Great. >> Um,

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>> town meeting zoning update. >> Very good. We will now the item number three is tabled until September. We will move to the town meeting zoning update. >> Can I Can I ask just a quick question?

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Sure. Regarding this, this is uh what we just voted on though. Um, this is a three-year term expiring March 31st. >> A quick >> because it follows the term of the vacant seat. So the position that Michael is filling was expired as of this spring. So this

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is a new term and in master laws it's a three-year term expiring March 31st for the new registars's term to begin April 1st. >> That's a standard date. >> Yes. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> So are we moving on to >> We are.

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>> Okay. I just wanted to give a quick frame for it. Um the idea here was the z the planning board is already looking at these zoning changes potential changes for town meeting. I wanted to make sure that we had uh you know this opportunity before you all but also those that pay attention to your meetings and not the

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planning board's meetings >> uh to be able to see the the topics that are being discussed at this point and have an opportunity for you all to obviously provide input as needed. Are we good? So I'll I'm going to share the screen and then Christo will take take it away.

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Okay. Can you all hear me? >> Um, so good evening members of the select board. Christa McGa, senior town planner. Um tonight I'm going to provide a brief update on several zoning initiatives that are currently under

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discussion with the planning board um that ultimately may be considered for the um December 2026 town meeting. This evening's presentation is intended as anformational update. Um none of the proposed zoning amendments are

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finalized. These are concepts um and they're continuing continuing to be refined through planning, board discussions, legal review, and ongoing public input. The goal tonight is to pro provide a high level overview of each initiative and to answer any questions

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that you may have. So before any zoning amendment can be considered by town meeting, Massachusetts general Law Chapter 4A requires the planning board to hold a formal public hearing, receive public comment, deliberate on the proposed amendments, and make a recommendation to

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town meeting. So residents, property owners, and other stakeholders will have additional opportunities to review and provide feedback on each of these proposals throughout the public process. So I just wanted to make that clear before getting started. point it over here.

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>> Oh, >> I can do it. >> Okay. >> Sorry. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So, the first topic that I'd like to update you on is the proposed commuter rail 40r smart growth district. Chapter 40R is a voluntary state zoning

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program that allows municipalities to create a smart growth zoning overlay district and areas appropriate for higher density housing near transit stations, downtowns, and other walkable commercial areas. The town can establish the development standards for the district. So this includes the building

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height setbacks, parking requirements, landscaping design standards, and whether groundf flooror commercial uses are required. The program also requires affordable housing and qualifying developments and it provides financial incentives to

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municipalities. So this includes a one-time payment when the district is originally approved and then additional payments as new housing is constructed over time. So focusing on the commuter rail for this district actually directly implements the goals

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of the recently adopted Swamcott master plan. The master plan identifies both the commuter rail station and Vinnen square as the town's primary transfer transformation nodes. So this is where growth should be focused. The master plan recommends concentrating future

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housing where transit, utilities, sidewalks, and other infrastructure already exist. So this 40R district can provide the town with an opportunity to proactively plan for future transit oriented housing growth while allowing the town to establish the design standards and

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expectations for the development. And next slide. Thank you. Okay, so this map shows the existing zoning surrounding the commuter rail station together with the current concept for the proposed 40R district. Since the planning board's last public

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hearing on July 13th, we've already made one revision based off public feedback. This is removing the three residential properties on the north side of Porter Place from the conceptual boundary. Um you can see it pointed out um those three properties on the map there.

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So these boundaries are not final yet and will continue to evolve as we work through the planning process. We are currently working with MAPC for technical assistance. MAPC will be providing the buildout analysis. This is to determine how many housing units the district could realistically

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accommodate. State incentive payment calculations associated with the district. So that's based off of that buildout analysis. Um they will be preparing the 40 app 40R application submission for EOHLC and they will also be assisting the town with drafting the

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design standards that govern the future development within the district and MAPC's technical work on the buildout analysis is already underway. Um and so as of right now we are currently on schedule um with this effort for consideration at the December 7th town

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meeting. Did >> you say there was a meeting in July? >> July. There was uh at the planning board meeting, it was a public hearing for a pre-application review of this. So, we presented this um and we heard from residents um who were notified within

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the district that they wish to not be within the district. So, we were getting public feedback on the >> How was that advertised? >> Um so, it was it was advertised through the the planning board advertisement, but we also sent out mailings to all of the properties within the district.

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So, I I just want to make a recommendation in the future if we could step up the advertisement on that because I think there's many people in town that will want to start giving their opinion on how much growth we're actually doing, especially in that area.

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>> Yeah, AB. Absolutely. And part of the overall plan for this is to have um specific community engagement sessions once we've actually determined certain standards um that once we have an idea of what those might be to get feedback from the community on those for building

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heights um and density and things like that. Uh next slide please. Okay. So, this slide provides another look at the proposed 40R district area. Um, you can see just how central the station is. Um, the planning board also

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discussed the opportunity to support the future modernization of the Swam Housing Authority properties. These are represented by the two icons on the map. They're both within the district. Um, so a 40R district could create a zoning framework that allows these properties to be redeveloped over time

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while preserving affordability, improving accessibility, um, and creating additional housing opportunities. Um, so both of those are included in this and will be considered um, as part as part of this effort when we're creating the design standards for the district. Um, as we continue this process, there

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will be additional public meetings, planning board discussions, and opportunities for public comment. um and continued refinement for both the dis district district boundaries and the zoning standards. Um and all of this will happen before town meeting in December, but I do appreciate your

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comments on um getting the word out for those public hearings that we will be having specifically to get public input on this. >> Thank you. >> Okay, so if you could move on to the next slide, please. Okay. So, beyond 40R, the planning board

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has also been discussing several other potential zoning amendments for consideration this year. Um, and you can move on. Um, so there are quite a few of them. Um, so I'll do my best to briefly touch on all of them. I can answer any questions, but it won't be an in-depth

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discussion on all of the proposed language. Um, so these changes include editorial corrections, updates required by state law, commercial preservation, outdoor dining regulations, amendments to the Burough Street Plan development district, updates to our ADU

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regulations, a new building height illustration, um, and revisions proposed by the tree committee. Um, so I'll briefly touch on each um, as we're as we're going through this, but you can move on to the next slide. So, this first category is largely

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housekeeping. These revisions um will implement recommendations from the town's 2024 legal and editorial review that was done of the zoning code. It will improve grammar, consistency, terminology, formatting, and references throughout the bylaw. Um these were all

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recommendations that were created through that review. Um so, there are some examples on the screen. um you know improving consistency by changing board of appeals to zoning board of appeals throughout. Um I went through and added a hyphen to all of the zoning board. Um

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there's a dash between A1. Um you know consistency things like that throughout throughout the code. Um there are a lot of outdated references like DHCD throughout um that has been updated to E OLC. So um up these updates are for

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consistency and correction but it is throughout the entire zoning bylaw. So um that is something that we just went through and made all the changes that were in that analysis. Okay, next slide please. So this next amendment responds to

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recent changes in Massachusetts law. Um state law now prohibits municipalities from requiring special permits for certain childare uses. This proposed amendment will update the table of uses to bring the zoning bylaw into compliance by exempting family daycare

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uses. Um, so 4A section 3 was recently amended and it says that no city or town shall prohibit or regulate family child care home uses um in its zoning ordinances or bylaws. So currently we have it under an institutional use and

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we will just be moving it up to be with child care facility um for family daycare. Great. So this this amendment um responds to a growing concern um about the gradual loss of ground flooror commercial space in our B1 and B2

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districts. Um this is something we have been talking for many months with the planning board about. Um, Swampscott has a limited amount of commercially zoned land and once the commercial space is converted to residential use, it's very difficult to replace that. Um, so this

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specific bylaw um will require if there is conversion of ground floor commercial use in B1 or B2 districts, that would require a special permit review by the planning board. It doesn't prohibit that conversion. It just requires a look to be taken at it. Um and they would

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basically need to justify why they're doing that. Um so that we don't continue to lose groundf flooror commercial mixed uses to become completely residential buildings in town. >> Um >> where are the B1 and B2 districts?

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>> Um ask was asking the same question but didn't want to sound um >> no well you could see some of them are in the railroad but >> it is neighborhood residential so I don't have the full zoning map as part of this presentation. Um just send it around. >> Absolutely. Um but it is neighborhood

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residential. So a lot of them are um like pockets of neighborhood type commercial, right? So it it's like a corner store. So it's the B1 and B2 are scattered throughout. Um some of them are underlying zoning in Humphrey Street. Um which is where we have seen a lot of the conversions happen.

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>> Um and that's actually what sparked the conversation is the conversion of ground flooror mixeduse to completely residential on Humphrey Street. is is why we started talking about it >> just for some historical uh you know perspective to to kind of back up the

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answer that Chris just gave to that it's kind of around you know the train station intersection of uh Paradise and Burl Street a little further up I believe Essex Street has one too those were all zoned that way when our zoning map was first created I don't know several decades ago um and look to give

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you a more precise timeline but anything that's in that zone is dedicated because it's one of those humpers shoot areas or it was that way when zoning was created. >> So this proposed change basically takes

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that area in those two districts and requires an additional level of approval to convert the commercial space into residential or >> on the first floor specifically. So, ground, floor, commercial, and B1 and B2. Um, if they're proposing to change

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it away from commercial since those are business zoning. >> Yep. >> Um, it would just require a review and approval from the planning board for a special permit. >> Thank you. I remember I remember several years ago when we voted to change the home for you

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overlay district I think or it might have been other districts as well that was specifically noting what types of businesses could go in on the first floor. Is that related specifically to this or is this adjacent to that?

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>> Um I'm not sure about the exact um change that you're talking about. >> You never said exact businesses that could go in. Well, there was a section a couple years back where we talked about like banks, but that was like vintage and >> limited. What what Wayne's probably referring to is when the Humphrey Street

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Overlay district was approved back in 201617 or so that what Christa is talking about the plan board viewing here is completely separate from the use table. So the use table remains unchanged as it is today. This solely reflects if you want if you have any

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name you're building on Humphrey Street now. If you want the first floor restaurant or coffee shop or whatever, if you're the landlord and you want to turn that into a condo and apartment right now, you can do that without going before any board or committee. Now, if this were to go through, you'd have to go to the planning board and get a special permit, proving that that is

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going to be a better use of that space than the existing commercial and proving that to the planning board to get a permit in order to do that rather than being able to do it by right. >> Great. Great. Thank you. Okay. Um, moving on to the next one, we have accessory outdoor seating. So,

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during CO, the town adopted temporary outdoor dining regulations. Um, these expired in 2023, but currently still remain in our bylaw. So, this proposal um replaces those expired temporary regulations with permanent standards for restaurants and coffee shops um to

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provide a clear and more predictable permitting process for accessory outdoor seating. So this establishes outdoor seating as an accessory use subject to a principal restaurant or coffee shop use. Um so and one thing to note um to you as

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the select board tonight um for restaurant use to have accessory outdoor seating outside of the property line. So on public property or in the right of way um this would designate the select board needing to authorize that um because zoning doesn't cover anything

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that's outside of the boundaries or on public property. So that would still be select board of review to approve any outdoor. >> Do we have specific standards >> for outdoor seating or is it still the wild west? >> Not yet, but that's proposed as part of this. So um we will be this is the first

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half of the section. And then on the next slide, if you want to advance to the next slide, um we are proposing general standards. Um as well as just some language on approvals. um when it's permitted by right um and when it would

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require an approval um by the board for the additional outdoor seating area. So right now it is still sort of the wild west other than access and like ingress egress type things like that and it's something that I've worked with Rich on to on the enforcement side figure out

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what is available to us now and then this is an opportunity to clean that up so that there's standards that everyone has very clear and reasonable access to. >> Right. and and the proposed standards um have considerations for providing separation from vehicular traffic,

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maintaining clean and safe spaces, providing safe pedestrian access to the outdoor dining area, you know, meeting all state codes, accessibility, health, ABC requirements, and more. So, it kind of clears up all of those are covered under these general standards that you

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see on here. and we have been working with the building commissioner um and the planning board to refine this language and we're continuing to work with them. This isn't final yet, but we're we're this is a draft right now of what we're thinking. >> I don't know about anybody here, but I can tell you that I am getting

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complaints over access and um cleanliness, >> people trying to walk in front of certain specific businesses and it just being a total mess. And >> yeah, >> I I don't know what the I don't I I don't know what the enforcement is or

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what's going on there, but just want to make sure you know that there's a good amount of complaints going on that >> it's hard to enforce when you're in the Wild West and you don't have rules to comply by. >> Well, to be fair, most of those businesses, if they have outreach from the town, they have in years prior

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cleaned up situations. And I'm sure they >> even Yeah. this year when Rich has made contact, you know, to say we need a certain amount of space to move between tables both in the public way and for your they have removed seating to make sure it works >> right. >> But it it would be a lot easier to

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Chris's point if everyone has clear and predictable >> they see from the beginning as opposed to, you know, us making a call and >> trying to have a friendly conversation. There's just rules that will be in place from the time that they're allowed to do it. Do do we need to codify any specific distances like for the you know to

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protect the public way 6 feet 8 feet whatever it is do we need to set a number because I don't see any numbers actually set here other than you know >> so it might be beneficial if we were to take this more specifically at another time >> the one that comes to mind would be ones where there's seating on both sides of

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the sidewalk as an example y there is a a a lane that needs to be open that earlier this year was not as an example When Rich and Marzy made contact with business owners, everyone sort of spread it out by removing seats. It wasn't like, "Oh, we're just going to push it further to the sides." Anyone that we've

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contacted said, "Yep, we will address it and we'll make sure that that space is available." Uh, to Katie's point, but to your point, Marielle, and I think it really would be helpful for everyone, both on enforcement and sort of the education side for businesses if we have some clear standard. We can certainly add the idea of giving those dimensions,

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Wayne, uh to the discussion that the planning board and uh the building commissioner others are having to see, you know, what we should include or if it's already something that Rich points to elsewhere in the code. >> So, would this become an annual approval process or is this a one-time process

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for a period of time? How do how do we consider it? >> Your bylaw. So, >> no, I mean once the bylaw is passed, when the select board when a business comes before the select board for >> approval for outdoor seating, is it an annual approval or is it for the length of their business?

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>> My right. No, >> well, still comes before the Ted refer to the slide number 10. It says, yeah, go ahead, Ted. >> Chrissa, could you just help me clarify this? >> Yep. Outdoor seating may be located on private property or on public property

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with the authorization from the select order authorities having jurisdiction. Just out of curiosity, does 40A give a planning board any control over land use on public property? Like would we be

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able to regulate through zoning any private use of public property? Um, I don't believe so, which is why we are putting the select board in there as the one who um would be able to authorize that. >> So, is it fair to say that all the

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regulations in here for outdoor seating would solely impact outdoor seating that's an accessory use on private property? So, for example, >> Mhm. >> uh we saw uh the Taco Andrews Takaria had a little outdoor thing that was before the select war not long ago

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that's entirely on private property that would be subject to this, but the outdoor seating along Humphrey Street, most of those restaurants are on public property, so they would not have to comply with this. Is that a fair assessment? >> Um, so it's it is intended for both and that's something that we can figure out

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the wording on. um it is written as it's an accessory use to a lawfully conforming primary use of a restaurant. So, and that's permitted by right. So, if there's a restaurant and they want to put an outdoor patio on their property

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without going through site plan review or something like that, they would be allowed to do that because it would be an a permitted accessory used to that primary use. >> Um but if they wanted to do it in the right of way, then they would have to go through approval from the select board. Um the idea is that these standards

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would still apply. That's why we um you know have some standards for you know keeping distance from vehicles. Um that also would apply if they wanted to do if people wanted to do outdoor seating in a parking lot um area um on on their property as well. But the intent is that

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this would hopefully apply to both um and we'll just need to figure out how to make sure that this you know clearly covers both of those. So again, I >> I think just to finish my thought, Katie, I think that is just the hiccup that I'm trying to get over is I've

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never seen zoning be able to be applied as an enforcement mechanism for anything other than private property. So we may just want to ask KP, is this the right way to regulate it for our rights of way or should we kick the rights of way regulations over to general bylaws or

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some other regulatory mechanism? >> Yeah, that's that's a good question to ask them. Um, >> right. So like for example, what happens if you're in Vinnon Square and you know one of the businesses there wants to just at least put some picnic tables or what put tables outside and

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start serving outside. How would this play into that because that's private property or anything any business that has private property even some businesses have space in back of their areas that they might want to have like a a garden tables in their garden or whatever. How

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does that affect them? And my other question is, did any businesses weigh in on this as far as what's good for them? >> Not yet. So, um, this is very early draft in the process. We will be doing, you know, as part of this whole process, we will be doing public engagement, but

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um, as of right now, we've just talked with the building commissioner um, and looked at what other towns have been doing. So, that's where we are right now. Um I do think that that you know will be a valuable part of this process as we go through. Um as this is written

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right now in Vinnen Square um if it's a restaurant or coffee shop um you know that's completely conforming. Um they would potentially be allowed to buy right have an accessory outdoor area so long as it meets all of those general

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standards. So, it has to be away from cars, um, you know, safe, meet all of the plumbing, seating, you know, all of those different, um, building requirements as well. >> So, anything, >> so this is really going to come into play on Humphrey Street more than

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anything, I would suspect. Right. That's really, >> and I think that's Ted, the point about making sure it applies both to public and private >> is really important and some something we'll run down with KP. I one question I do have for the five of you is would you prefer an annual approval? I think that

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would make the most sense as same as liquor and >> entertainment and everything else, right? >> I think things change, right? And so we do want to be able to look at it. I think >> not not just give grant permission >> in perpetuity

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>> in perpetuity because I think it's hard to pull things back once people have it. they feel like it's a right and if this is not a right but something that we're giving folks like then we should have a cadence for re-evaluating it.

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>> Well, I think that's >> a challenge a little bit, right? Because that's not something we've ever done in the past and now we're going to require every business that has outdoor capability to come before us every single year. I would in my mind it kind of I kind of think of if there's a

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change to the original plan that we approve then they'd come before us but I I don't know in my mind that I would picture every single one every year coming um for approval. The one thing I would just caveat for on public property at least >> right that's >> we didn't do this before 20 no one did

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this before 2020 right >> and so it is something that we >> wrestled with both at the state level and at municipal level where it's like everyone wanted to do the right thing then as quickly as possible right >> and then it just became part of >> what people expected >> the community or part of the way the

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business anticipates >> uh operating so it's somewhere I think that falls in between what you are each saying I just wanted to highlight >> I mean philos philosophic Sorry, you finish what you're saying. >> I was just going to say, did we did we consult the disability committee also on what their thoughts might be? Because in

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terms of like accessibility, wheelchair accessibility, I mean, >> that's that lane that that's what Rich has been having conversations about when it's >> Go ahead. I think for when we think about especially use on public way, we

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should think about the cadence by which we reevaluate because the public access to it could change. The need for it could change. And so I think like we need to be very thoughtful about that. What was it? What was its original intended use? And yes, we're granting a privilege to a restaurant or coffee shop

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to be able to utilize it. Hopefully, it's for the public good, but if that shifts, we want to be able to have a mechanism to pull it back. I don't I don't necessarily see the same thing on private property. So maybe there's some sort of distinction we could make, but at least on public way, I think it's

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>> I also think like sometimes these ideas like they grow and grow and they get a little out of hand. And so obviously these conditions need to be >> uh have teeth in them so rich can enforce them because >> we want to be able to facilitate a public um advantage but we don't want it

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to then encroach on neighboring rights and things like that. >> Definitely public. So during co um I think there was an an essence and a philosophy of public good as to why we allotted public ways for

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the use of a private entity at this point. Right? I think the subject nature or the subject matter is slightly changed in terms of what public way is giving to again the ability for

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enhancement of a private business. I think that needs to be taken into account in that is that fair to all businesses. Right. >> Right. Are we allotting the use albeit temporary with I mean by permit but is there a cost they're not paying taxes on

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that extra property yet they're getting extended use and appreciating improved business as a result of it >> we're getting meals and beverage right >> this is but this has been across all towns that have been dealing with this we're not this is not a new conversation

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but I think people were afraid to possibly dive into it because it was we were in COVID. We had a we were in a different different philosophical state of mind at the time, but I think that we've come out of that and and should

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there be are there other examples of other towns who are potentially giving partial use or I don't know what the right technical term is, but an increase in the property tax for a certain small area.

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>> Maybe it's relevant, maybe it's not. I just want to bring that up. is highlighting this stuff tonight. I mean, because it seems like we're getting we're starting to are we going are we getting into the weeds or are we just doing a highlight here and then revisiting this? >> The idea was I highlighted I think it was >> right what's just I just want to know

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what the purpose tonight is. >> It's a high level review of the things that are before the plan. I think it makes sense if there are from the highlight questions or concerns that we bring them up now because we don't want the planning board to go deep into this without >> like feeling out the path forward. I

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think >> Exactly. And at our planning board meeting on Monday, um we're going to have discussions and I'll summarize the feedback that we received from this session for the board. >> Okay. >> So Wayne's Wayne's comments then about I'm sorry, Ted, one second. Wayne's

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comments about whether or not whether to consider that additional as far as whether or not the fee or tax >> the fee or taxes or additionals that should be added in there >> which would be which would be a part of the the special permit

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>> be part of the special permit that comes before the select board >> right >> for public ways only >> go ahead Ted >> right I was going to that's what I was going to suggest we need to separate this into private property >> yes >> and public property the zoning stuff my my gut is going to come back and tell me

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that KP is going to come and say and I don't want to I'm not a lawyer so I don't want to try and pretend to be one but is going to say use this for private property anything you want to do on public property regulatory or general bylaws or other regulatory matter >> so this is a valuable conversation to have and we should have it but we should

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kind of divorce it from the zoning conversation we're having right now because it's probably going to be a separate conversation >> right yeah right >> there's a liability question too when we allow private use on public property to a degree. We have to figure out who's responsible for what if something should

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happen. Um is there additional coverage? Are we indemnified by the restaurants insurance? Um things like that. >> Looks like they're putting a date on it too. May >> you want me to talk about that? >> No. April or you know >> that we have those.

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>> Right. I agree. >> So at the state level we did require it. I don't know what was done here when it started. I can check. >> Thank you. >> Nothing. Thank you. >> Part of the permit. >> One of the other things that I just want to mention, I believe when we started this, Marcy got a number of grants. I

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don't remember through which agency. >> Um, but a number of grants to essentially double the width of the sidewalks where we had outdoor dining and that was really awesome. Um, and I don't I know it I don't know if the grant funding stopped or what, but we kind of went halfway down Humphrey

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Street and called it a day. But it might be worth on a future board meeting having just a conversation on the public the public side of outdoor dining, creating a regulatory framework, getting an update onto the sidewalk expansion, where that is, if that's over, why it

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is, and next steps in this whole kind of funnel of outdoor dining along Humphrey Street on public ways. >> That's a good point, T. >> Yeah. And not to get too much into Wayne's philosophical conversation, but I do think that there is I I do think if we considered

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um taking away public dining, especially on Humphrey Street where it faces the ocean and it's serving a public purpose, that we we would have public comment in here about people who think that that would be a travesty for that street. So, um, we do definitely want to continue that public conversation to make sure

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like, yeah, we're not in CO anymore, but is the ideology lost that we should be out creating community? Probably. I shouldn't be. So, >> okay. >> Right. I I appreciate the feedback and I think it was a really good point that

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all of this is written right now that it could apply to private, you know, development. Um, and we will looking at the standards. We'll talk to KP law and see if maybe it needs to be just a different >> process for select board. Um, and we

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will we will look into that, but we'll focus more on the the private stuff for the zoning bylaw. >> Next one. >> Yep. Yeah. Um, we can move on to the next one. Okay. So the next one that we are doing is we are reviewing potential

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amendments to the Burl Street Senior Center Plan Development District. So that's the senior center plan development district for the building at 89 Burl Street. Um currently the district the plan development district for this property only allows for

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residential uses. Um, so we are looking to potentially allow for um permitted principal uses like the clubs, lodges, fraternal organizations or other historically permitted uses like nonprofit type uses that were in that

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building that currently are not allowed under the PDD zoning right now. Um, so we are looking to add those additional um primary permitted uses for that site. And just so a little more background, the reason we're coming forward with this is we had an initial conversation

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with the CBA to understand what their anticipated read or the the chair's anticipated read on the prior non-conforming use which has been extinguished by time. >> Uh which is why we feel the need to come back with something so that it would allow us to move forward. >> Yep. Um so we currently have some legal

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questions in KP law on um that one right now. So >> the municipal use would be exempt like if it was for wreck or other purposes or does that have to be listed in the um develop district? Also, >> we don't have we don't exempt municipal

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uses in here. So I think that's one of the reasons why we're looking into what permitted uses can be allowed. >> We also don't have a definition for nonprofit type uses in our code. Um, which is one of the questions that we have for KP Law because

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do you define it by the land use or do you define because >> we want to focus on land uses not um tax designations, you know, when we're in the zoning by >> even expanding this maybe by another comma for municipal uses just because if

415
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>> say Anchor wanted, you know, like if something happened and now Ankor wants to go in there or Charlotte wants to use it as an auxiliary space for wreck or something like that. We don't want to have to come back to town meeting, >> right? >> We want to make sure that building is able to fulfill whatever town need it needs to service. >> Yeah.

416
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>> Rather do it once. >> One of the things we thought about was adding like a a community services facility type use um rather than a non nonprofit specifically that could encompass more um Okay. >> community type uses. So, >> yeah,

417
02:01:21.360 --> 02:01:37.040
>> we're we're working on it. Um but yeah, we're working on the best way to to get that in there. But that's it. Yeah, >> the senior center plan development district. >> That's it as it exists today.

418
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>> That's what I did not know that there it was the senior center part of it was >> Yep. That is the name that it was that it still has that it was given when it was developed. Okay. So next um we have

419
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a change for accessory ding units. So following the recent statewide ADU legislation um the planning board has encountered some scenarios where um a site plan special permit is required for any new development over 500 square ft but the new state law exempts ADUs up to

420
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900 square ft. So, this is um adding some clarification language that would say that um site plan special permit approval for um ADU additions exceeding 500 ft shall not it shall not apply to ADUs. That way,

421
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we'll be in compliance with this the state law and not be requiring it um when we shouldn't be. Okay. Um so, the next one we have an illustration. the building commissioner actually created this. Um, this is not adding any anything new. It's just a

422
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figure at the end of the zoning bylaw to better explain for petitioners and um, board members and anyone who has to interpret how we interpret height in our zoning bylaw. Um, it this is just a helpful diagram to add at the end that

423
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helps um, show how it's measured in our zoning bylaw. Okay. And finally, um this is the last one. Um the tree committee has proposed revisions to the landscaping requirements. Um and they have had

424
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discussions with the planning board um and have had multiple discussions and this is they voted this is the final language on their end that they want to recommend. Um but basically it talks about when you're replacing a dead tree.

425
02:03:39.280 --> 02:03:55.119
um you would have to replace it with the same or greater caliper. Um like for like um however, if the tree is larger than 4 in, um you have multiple options. You can either replace it with a tree of equal

426
02:03:55.119 --> 02:04:11.760
or same caliber or replace the tree with a 4-in calipiber tree and then another tree would be donated to the town that would then equal the caliber of the original tree that was removed. So, um, this has been in review with the

427
02:04:11.760 --> 02:04:27.040
planning board. They're they're going back again on Monday, um, because they incorporated some of the revisions that the planning board had recommended. Um, but this is the most current language that the tree committee is recommending for this section of the bylaw.

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>> This is on public property, right? >> This is actually for parking lots. Um, so this is section 3310. >> Okay. Um, and it's specifically for parking lot dead plantings. You were afraid to ask another >> It's where there's an approved landscaping plan as part of the

429
02:04:44.480 --> 02:05:00.480
>> property. Correct. >> Right. So, it's the the general landscaping and screening requirements, but section 3310 is specifically for parking lot landscaping. >> Okay. >> And that's for private parking lots just for the board's excavation. >> Thank you.

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>> So, that would cover Vinnon for instance. >> Yes. Yep. and that's what sparked a lot of the conversation. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Kristen. >> Thank you. >> Great. Yeah. Thank you all. Um if you have any other questions, I'm happy to

431
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answer them. I appreciate the feedback. Um >> Christa, I just want to tell you how much you appreciated and all the hard work. We went many years without a town planner and we we were specifically waiting for you.

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you do a great job. Thank you. >> Yeah, Chrissy, you're doing great. Thanks for coming tonight and appreciate the update and the work that you and the board have been doing. >> Yeah. >> So, thank you very much. >> Yeah. Thank you all. if you could just make sure that we really hit, you know, the website and

433
02:05:49.119 --> 02:06:04.239
social media for advertising for people to come down. And >> yeah, I appreciate the feedback of getting the um restaurant owners involved in the outdoor seating conversation as well as um the disability commission for that conversation, too. So, that's something

434
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that um you know, we will definitely look into and getting more people involved as we continue to have more drafts of of these available. Where do we fit in the deadline >> timing? >> Yeah. In terms of getting this on for

435
02:06:20.080 --> 02:06:36.159
December, >> I think we're aligned >> for to to have this ready in time. There's a schedule that we're working on that we anticipate being able to hit. If we slip behind, we'll either move it to the spring or wait a full year to bring it back. >> But the goal is and MAPC laid out a schedule they can hit. The planning

436
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board in talking with the chair was okay with it. There could be opportunities where the feedback is significant enough that we need to say December doesn't make sense, but as we go through the process, the PL um our planning staff will make sure that we're aware of that and we'll communicate it broadly. >> Okay.

437
02:06:52.000 --> 02:07:08.560
>> Yeah, we have a timeline in our appendix that outlines the whole process with the warrant um deadlines and everything. So, we're keeping track of it because we want to make sure that um we'll stay on track. You know, I'm I'm just going to be upfront here with the select board that I am very concerned about the overdevelopment

438
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in the railroad area. We've got the Westcot. We've got >> just the basic philosophical reasons why uh as to pretty much what everyone was talking about tonight at open comment. I feel very very uh very similar in in in that particular regard.

439
02:07:26.320 --> 02:07:43.760
>> Yeah. I think Ted and I I won't speak for you, Ted, but I think the the comments that were made last week about um I actually think somebody said at public comment, we can say that we seriously um scrutinize the use of residential without prohibiting it so that we could

440
02:07:43.760 --> 02:07:59.440
still see possible choices that include it. So, we're not limited. What I don't want to happen is I don't want to get sort of a a handful of less than stellar ideas if because of our limitation. And

441
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I totally respect the the idea like that the public has spoken and said that should be the limitation. Um sometimes you know we could see a picture and all of a sudden that spurs a change of heart. I mean look at what happened when we brought up one comment last week.

442
02:08:16.239 --> 02:08:33.440
Marilyn did think, okay, well, maybe that's a possibility and we should think about it. So, I just and I'm not trying to kick the can. I I lean the same way you lean and I I think in the end I agree like I don't I stood before town meeting and argued against what Brian

443
02:08:33.440 --> 02:08:50.159
said about having residential on there because I didn't think it was what originally the intention was. But I also think that we could say that in the RFP while we highly um scrutinize any form of residential here, you know, we're not going to prohibit it from the RFP so

444
02:08:50.159 --> 02:09:04.719
that we can see the best programming possible for that space. And if that includes residential, prove it. Like show us what it brings to the table. that also synergizes the open space that also synergizes the community use that

445
02:09:04.719 --> 02:09:21.920
also synergizes um you know the I don't know the synergy with the commercial corridor um like you have to prove it you don't just get to put it in there but I'm I totally understand why you guys are sitting here saying this and I don't disagree foundationally with

446
02:09:21.920 --> 02:09:38.960
what you're saying I just don't want to lose the opportunity to see something great and maybe we won't. And I I think that the value of that parcel of land lends itself to some pretty great possibilities. And I really do believe in my mind that we will get responses to

447
02:09:38.960 --> 02:09:54.960
that RFP that do not include residential. And I believe it is doable. And it certainly might be a combination of commercial and open space, but I really do believe that residential is not necessary. And I I I I really and I I know we don't want to limit our

448
02:09:54.960 --> 02:10:11.040
possibilities, but I again I think this is one of those cases where we have to we have to take a stand because we cannot just let this go on to infinity where we debate. We're always going to have people with different opinions. We have got to put some guard rails. And I

449
02:10:11.040 --> 02:10:24.960
think that this is a really big one that we that we have to come out and say we do not want residential there as part of that RFP. >> I I agree. I agree 100%. Oh, but Ted is >> Let me present a concept. >> Let me present a concept to you all

450
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because I am the I said this last week and I've said it the week before and I said it during the campaign when I ran. I am not advocating and I do not want and I do not think that land is good for residential. With that being said, I think something needs to happen to that spot. Period. We need to have something

451
02:10:42.560 --> 02:10:59.199
there. And when you look at some of the other comparable RFPs that have gone out in the last few years for towns of 30,000 people or less who have had a coastal property that have gone out to RFP and what the outcome of that has been you can look at Wickford Rhode

452
02:10:59.199 --> 02:11:16.960
Island Nantas uh Nantascad and Hall near Rhode Island uh Waterford Connecticut there's a couple in New York as well many of those RFPs have come back with zero or one response. responses because they have all not they have all demanded

453
02:11:16.960 --> 02:11:32.400
a high use of public access, no investment from the public and they have not allowed for enough of a revenue generation for the land landholder or the developer to make the RFP work. So the reason why I suggest that we need to

454
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be cleareyed and open openeyed about this, open-minded about this is I do not want to be here in a year >> doing this again, >> not having well and coming back to the town saying, "Hey, we put up all these guardrails and these are the responses

455
02:11:47.760 --> 02:12:04.480
we got and they might be none. That's what I am nervous about. I don't want to have this conversation again in here because we structured this in a way that we don't get realistic responses for what this site deserves, right? I mean, based on what I'm seeing, and I encourage you all to go look at some of these other RFPs that that have gone

456
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out, that's where the market is. >> Yeah, of course it is. But, you know, the market isn't it, you know, what's necessarily important to the 15,000 people that live here. I mean, at some point, we can't

457
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just go by profit and market. And and of course, we have to be fiscally logical. I'm not saying just, you know, throw it out the window, but um I I just have to think in my mind that special piece of property can have a use that is other

458
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than residential. It just doesn't does not, you know, I'm not fearful of us not getting any responses. I don't I don't have that feeling at all personally. But um >> I'm not suggesting that I'm not suggesting that we will only get responses if we have residential there.

459
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I'm suggesting that there's two things that could happen. We don't get enough responses or we don't get the quality of responses because we're not putting out an RFP that has enough financial incentive for a developer to expend significant resources on it. >> Or which this scares me just as much if

460
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not more. We get a great idea, but it the financing of it is so extreme that we all have to come to to terms with how much money do we have to go ask Tom Beating for to bond this to find 10 $15 million to help make this an incentive for the town. Right.

461
02:13:24.719 --> 02:13:40.639
>> I just in the financials area that we're in right now, I don't know how we do that when we have a middle school, we have to go bond for $100 million in the next five to seven years. >> Right. Sure. But I think I would feel better by giving town meeting that choice when it was town meeting that made the decision to purchase this

462
02:13:40.639 --> 02:13:57.520
property. Right. I I mean if it gets if that is the worst case scenario where we have to go back to town meeting and say look we did what really you intended. We we tried to act you know as intended when you purchased it but this is what is going to be required to now turn it into something that is revenue

463
02:13:57.520 --> 02:14:14.480
producing. I mean that that to me is is giving the power back to town meeting, right? Which is what a lot of people spoke to tonight. >> I actually don't even think it's revenue producing. I just think that it's coming to fruition. Like it's it I'm not even saying like the the the land has to pay

464
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for itself. I'm just saying to develop the land there will need to be significant investment whether it comes from a developer or whether it comes from a partnership with the developer or whether it comes from us in totality with grants or other avenues right so we have to figure out how whatever

465
02:14:32.000 --> 02:14:48.880
commercial/open space the RFP could come back and said sure we'll build a small commercial space but you have to develop the open space >> so if you want 80% open space fine we'll give it back to you but you've got to develop it so how do we come up with 10, seven more million dollars, right? We

466
02:14:48.880 --> 02:15:05.360
have to go back to town meeting and say, "This is the best RFP. It aligns with all the things you asked us to. We need 7 million more dollars." So, we're in a little bit of a situation. And and I don't mind doing that if we also brought forward and said that's option A. Option

467
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B is also if you allow for 10 residential, it might cost us zero dollars. And I mean, I'm not saying that that it yes, it's a financial trade-off that the town is going to have to make, but if you today say you the we don't

468
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even want to consider answer B. We don't because town meeting doesn't want to consider it. Fine. I'm here to put forward that our job to sit on this board is to have a contingency plan. And we I believe in plan A. We'll put forward plan A. will put parameters on

469
02:15:38.719 --> 02:15:55.520
that say we prefer plan A. We don't want you to come to plan B if you don't consider plan A first. But if no plan A has come to the table, I want to be able to say to town meeting, we had the knowledge of forethought to come up with plan B and this is what it is so that you don't have to wait for us to come

470
02:15:55.520 --> 02:16:12.079
for it again. >> You know, I I respect what you're saying as far as having having to have that other option. However, I do not want to see residential there under any circumstances and I'm hearing that pretty much from every member of

471
02:16:12.079 --> 02:16:27.920
this board. >> I mean to vote on it tonight. We should just get it off the table then. >> Yeah, we should just take it off the table. >> We are wasting so much time talking about this. The only reason I want to bring up my perspective tonight is I want this board to be cleareyed that if we do not offer

472
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>> right >> uh a way for a developer to underwrite the significant investment I think all of us are hoping they will make on their dime in this property >> we will very likely face either bad results from an RFP in terms of quality response or great results but hey we

473
02:16:44.000 --> 02:16:59.200
need you to kick in 10 15 >> exactly $5 million. So, as long as we're clearing about that, let's take a vote and move on. >> But a quick question. >> Go ahead. Yep. >> What's the difference if we have residential agreements versus a commercial agreement

474
02:16:59.200 --> 02:17:15.920
that benefit? That's a >> what's the under benefit to the underwriting to have commercial only versus commercial is what the question is, right? >> Based Yeah. Yeah. Which under >> commercial only >> in order to finance it? Is there a greater benefit if you have residential

475
02:17:15.920 --> 02:17:31.840
available for a developer? >> Well, it has to be whatever the projected revenue is going to be. >> Why couldn't you through through rental of uh commercially available property? >> It can. >> You're you're always you're always you are always going to have a easier time getting underwriting when you include

476
02:17:31.840 --> 02:17:46.960
residential in a mixeduse facility. Always and every single time. And there's a reason why if you look at any uh lifestyle center conversion project, they all include residential because that's what they needed to make the financing work, right? >> And there's a certain member of your board who three months ago could have given a much more eloquent specific

477
02:17:46.960 --> 02:18:01.920
answer to that. But that's the best I have for my planning and commercial development experience. >> So, so maybe the answer then is to say that we would negatively wait a residential response to the RFP to not eliminate it, but to say that if you if

478
02:18:01.920 --> 02:18:17.359
you that we will negatively residential will negatively impact your w your criteria score however you say it >> I mean at the very minimum we would have to do that as at a very minimum right that that's my feeling I would love to

479
02:18:17.359 --> 02:18:33.679
say no residential altogether that is that is my personal opinion I think it's been clear the number of people that have come here tonight and the way that it's said be be it social media be it email be it in person people taking the time to come down here and say what they

480
02:18:33.679 --> 02:18:49.359
really want or what they really thought that purchase was for. I don't think we can just throw it out the window. I I I wouldn't feel right doing that. Even if it is going to give us maybe some less than stellar responses, which I'm not even sure it's going to, I really can't

481
02:18:49.359 --> 02:19:04.960
even conclusively say that I don't think we won't get a decent proposal that comes out of this. >> I mean, what are our what are our assuming that we don't do residential, what are our expectations of what this final project's going to look like, right? So, if we're thinking along the

482
02:19:04.960 --> 02:19:21.519
lines that it is going to be mixed commercial use and open space, >> I don't even see residential fitting into this. >> No, I don't. >> Well, I don't see the commercial happening without the residential. So, I don't think I don't think they'll get underwriting to build the commercial without the residential. >> When they build Vinon Square, do they

483
02:19:21.519 --> 02:19:38.000
have residential in mind? >> No, they they >> No, they No, I'm talking not I'm saying when they originally built it. >> No. Oh, but when they built it 50 years ago, it was a it was a strip mall. You can't compare first it was a covered mall, then it was a strip mall, but you can't compare uh uh commercial

484
02:19:38.000 --> 02:19:54.399
development in the 1960s to where it is 60 years later, >> right? But Marcus Street, let's look at Market Street, right? They didn't res there is now, but there wasn't originally when they put Market Street. It was all commercial, >> was there not? >> Market Street. >> Market Street in Lfield. >> Market Street has res

485
02:19:54.399 --> 02:20:11.280
>> but not above. No, it's over on the side. The lot's bigger. >> Yeah, I think it's like a little bit of apples and oranges because the lot's much smaller and you're trying to build smaller amount of commercial space. If you had more room, do I think that you could get away with commercial only? Probably. But there's not enough room on

486
02:20:11.280 --> 02:20:29.200
that lot to do that. So, like I think I mean I'm I am happy to say that it's negative a negative impact if you put residential on there. I just don't want to cross it out totally. I am happy. I am not throwing out anybody's opinion by

487
02:20:29.200 --> 02:20:44.160
doing that. I am just keeping the door open so that in case we get to a point where there are no options or very few options, we can still consider that as an option. And we would say to town meeting and to the public, we listen to you. We negatively impacted it and this

488
02:20:44.160 --> 02:21:00.080
was still the best idea. >> And it's not based on revenue drive or anything like that. It's literally based on having something happen on that piece of land, like actually bringing something to fruition. We saw the how thinly the margin of the Hadley was when we negotiated that RFP.

489
02:21:00.080 --> 02:21:16.160
>> I mean, we had to go back and renegotiate certain levers and mechanisms to make that happen. >> And, you know, it's just the the the development is so tight these days. Yeah. that in order to see something come to fruition and I'm not saying I

490
02:21:16.160 --> 02:21:32.960
have a ton of experience but having just gone through what we went through with the Hadley like I just want to be a little bit thoughtful about how that process came to be and give space >> but we were able to do it we were able to do it and not have an iota of

491
02:21:32.960 --> 02:21:48.960
residential >> because we kept well that >> right I'm just saying right we it it we it was able to happen it's happening as we we're in the of it. Well, I think Delmare would love to build a hotel in Hawthorne instead of a to be honest, but

492
02:21:48.960 --> 02:22:05.920
that's not the option. >> To Danielle's point, let's look at it for this way. And I just want to say I from the start have thought we should say residential development is highly highly discouraged and you'll be disen uh disincentivized from providing that.

493
02:22:05.920 --> 02:22:22.640
Period. End of story. Move on. But I don't think it's the right thing to eliminate it. But if the board thinks that way, I'm I'm happy to be part of it and and move on and we can go by eliminating it now. But the one thing I just want to say because this is all part of a you know a tapestry with different colors that have to get weaved

494
02:22:22.640 --> 02:22:37.600
together. >> We are asking for a commercial small footprint commercial. Right. >> Right. We've been encouraged to not have to try and keep it as low stories as possible. So we are also asking to have

495
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some form of parking whether it's public parking or private parking on the site for the commercial and the open space. We're also having conversations of 40 to 60 to now 70 75% open space on that site. So, of all of the things that I just mentioned, how does someone who's

496
02:22:54.479 --> 02:23:09.359
in the development business respond to an RFP and make their money if they're trying to keep 70% of the site open space, have some level of parking for the commercial development they have, one maybe one and a half stories of commercial development that they're going to be allowed to have there, which

497
02:23:09.359 --> 02:23:24.560
is probably 12 to 20,000 square feet. That doesn't lend to a significant amount of money to be able to amortize your expense. But we're not asking for those parameters. We're just asking to not have residential. I'm not going to I'm not going to request a parameter of

498
02:23:24.560 --> 02:23:40.960
um no, you know, 70% open space. I'm not I I wouldn't commit to that. I wouldn't put a number on that. I would say a certain portion of open space. But do you know what I'm saying? The only parameter in my head right now is no residential. That's the only thing that >> my suggestion is every direction we're

499
02:23:40.960 --> 02:23:56.640
going to get pushed is going to pull the the amount of money a developer is going to be able to recoup on their investment in the space and increase the amount of time it's going to take them to recoup that investment. So every decision we make is going to impact how they're going to be able to recoup their investment that they're putting into

500
02:23:56.640 --> 02:24:13.280
this. So my s my reason in bringing this up is >> unfortunately unless we foot the bill for this we have to have that lens in mind if we want something to get done. So again I go back to the residential I think we should disincentivize it but I think we should just vote tonight and move on.

501
02:24:13.280 --> 02:24:28.560
We may have to we may have to come back to town meeting in the next few years and say look >> we need a lot of money to do this because this is the stipulations that you have. I'm fine with doing that. I just all want us to be cleareyed that it's very likely we could have to do that and I want the community to know that we may have to do that. That's just reality,

502
02:24:28.560 --> 02:24:45.120
>> right? I want I want to be able to say to the proponents of open space who thought who thought this whole thing should be open space like hey a bid came in that has this 75% open space 25% commercial mixeduse but it has residential on top or this other

503
02:24:45.120 --> 02:25:00.880
response maybe has 50% commercial 50% open space. Is that a trade-off you want to make? like I want to be able to offer that up as an option. >> But that's exactly what we're doing, right? Because it's then if we have to come back and say, "Okay, it's going to take us seven or eight million." The

504
02:25:00.880 --> 02:25:16.720
decision is yours. It is in the hands of the people that that gave the power to to even acquire this the lot of land, right? As opposed to us just saying what should happen there. So, if we get into a pickle like that and we don't get responses that are going to be, you

505
02:25:16.720 --> 02:25:32.160
know, okay, one restaurant with a park or or whatever we're thinking it's going to be, then okay, we're going to bring it back to you and say, okay, this is what we've got. What do you want to do? Right? What's the decision? >> Where do you want to go? >> As opposed to us just coming in and saying, >> okay, we're going to take any, you know,

506
02:25:32.160 --> 02:25:48.000
we're going to take residential. We're going to take whatever proposals come out of this thing. You know what I mean? And not really enforcing what people wanted to do in the first place. I don't know. I just I would not limit anything else. It you know I wouldn't have a hard stance on parking. I

507
02:25:48.000 --> 02:26:03.680
wouldn't take a hard stance on percentage of open space. But I think this one area is where we have to take the hard stance. No no residential. The rest of it have at it. Like let's see what you can come up with. Let's I special property. Like surely someone

508
02:26:03.680 --> 02:26:19.359
can come up with something that doesn't have residential. That's my my thought. Can I pretend to be the chair and just ask somebody to make a motion so we can move on? >> So I'd make a motion that three times now. >> I make a motion. >> You can make a motion, Ted. Why don't

509
02:26:19.359 --> 02:26:35.840
you make the motion? >> Go ahead, Mariel. Sorry. >> I was going to make the motion, but Ted, if you want. So I'm I'm going to make a motion to eliminate residential use. >> Two, it passes. >> Okay. >> I can just say I am glad that we had this conversation and we put this to bed and we can move on. >> Yeah. And I don't think it is a waste of

510
02:26:35.840 --> 02:26:50.640
time. Yes. Have we talked about it a lot? But I think people need to be able to reference back these conversations and see how we got here. If we whatever situation we get in going forward, they need to be able to say the board had a robust discussion with multiple facets uh

511
02:26:50.640 --> 02:27:06.960
>> considered transparently multiple public occasions and it came to a conclusion >> and I think I just before I just want to say I don't think and this is for the public more so no one was advocating for residential here. We're just trying to get as many options for all of us to be

512
02:27:06.960 --> 02:27:23.680
able to make an informed decision. Period. End of story. Nobody wants >> to see another large building on Humphrey Street. Don't block views that should be open to the public or access. >> I think every member of the board was clear that they don't want to see residential. >> Thank one more time for the people in the back. None of us want to see

513
02:27:23.680 --> 02:27:40.960
residential use here. Just to be clear. >> Thank you. Um, okay. So, do we want to move on to another? Um, I think Danielle had made the recommendation that this was the only parameter we put on and we let >> honestly I I really think that the rest of it we we leave it open-ended. We we

514
02:27:40.960 --> 02:27:58.000
do not put parameters on parking having parking um you know whether it's uh what is the other municipal parking building reuse versus demolition. Not weighing in on that. If someone wants to give a proposal that includes keeping that building and turning it into a big banquet facility or a restaurant, I'm

515
02:27:58.000 --> 02:28:12.160
open to it. I'm not I wouldn't put any parameters on anything else. Synergy. No. I personally I think we've given enough direction at this point to create this. >> Do you do you say parameters as in like

516
02:28:12.160 --> 02:28:28.560
hard stop line in the sands or as in >> propose it all? like >> incentive like should we the more open space somebody has in a proposal the more plus points they get on their application like ruber incentives which is your definition of what you're

517
02:28:28.560 --> 02:28:43.920
defining. >> I don't want to define any of it. >> I don't either. >> I want to leave it completely open-ended with the only caveat that there is no residential. >> That's my personal opinion. The only I do have a question though is in the when we did the Hadley, how did we add in

518
02:28:43.920 --> 02:29:00.319
financing and timeliness of the project? >> Was it in the >> Was there anything was it any guidelines or anything saying that >> in the Hadley RFP? >> In the Hadley RFP, I don't know if we I know we asked for >> this is my hotline.

519
02:29:00.319 --> 02:29:18.640
>> We asked for it uh at the time that >> it's my trash folder. Sorry, it's a lot of folders. I just I don't remember if it was one of the line items that was graded. >> So, while Katie looks for that, and I can look in a second, too, we do need to

520
02:29:18.640 --> 02:29:33.680
prioritize >> like demolition versus reuse because to Ted's point, like we need to be able to communicate what the priorities and goals of the community are to those that are >> responding. And it could be that we draft it without that information right

521
02:29:33.680 --> 02:29:50.479
now and it gives you guys a couple weeks off from discussing this and when we get the draft to you that's when you but we we kind of have to give like a a scale of like this is a priority or a goal and it will be you know it's highly recommended versus recommended. So then

522
02:29:50.479 --> 02:30:05.600
the >> I don't want to give that >> the only area that they should >> understand you may not want to do it but we're we're not how are we able to measure how can we communicate what we're measuring to people that are >> we have to tell people whether their answer is good or bad >> so >> right it has to provide right

523
02:30:05.600 --> 02:30:20.560
>> so it can't be >> it could be that we draft it without that and like I said that you can continue to hear feedback we can come back in a few weeks and there'll be something that you can then say here here are these topics in writing you did a poor job drafting a good job drafting and we have to now >> assign

524
02:30:20.560 --> 02:30:36.960
the open space piece of it is is the second most important factor, right? Maybe some people would think it's first, but to me that would be the next in order of priority, right? it it should if it can incorporate >> I don't know >> I don't know the wording but a decent

525
02:30:36.960 --> 02:30:53.840
amount of open space then it would be higher right >> that's where you guys can weigh in on how how >> the draft we put together you can >> I like are not strong enough >> define when we talk about open space I think I think it's both access but it's also ocean views >> I think um when we talk about openness

526
02:30:53.840 --> 02:31:10.319
blocking the view of the ocean is >> a part of this I think it's what part of the expectation is within the community is certainly part of mine. However, um >> unrestricted community access. >> I I want to I want to I want to, you know, hit a little bit on the building

527
02:31:10.319 --> 02:31:25.520
reuse versus demolition. I've always said that if you wanted I'm not suggesting it's an all or nothing. I'm suggesting that if a developer finds that it's for whatever reason profitable for them to do so,

528
02:31:25.520 --> 02:31:41.200
right, that they could knock part of it down or transform some of the use of it, maybe it's not financially equitable. It's not for me to decide that. However, I would strongly like it noted that I I want a I want a

529
02:31:41.200 --> 02:31:57.040
view from the street of the ocean that may be challenged by how the buildings are developed. Um, I do support having a building closer to the street, but um, it depends also if we have the church

530
02:31:57.040 --> 02:32:14.800
property available at some point because that also opens up a clear view and some obvious open space. So, while that's still in play, it's an uncomfortable I don't say it's uncomfortable, there's too many variables at stake to to clearly say

531
02:32:14.800 --> 02:32:31.760
knock it down or keep the whole thing. That's why I'm I I I want clear view of the ocean, >> right? >> And >> unrestricted community access. >> I like that. Unrestrict unrestricted community access. Um >> Well, hold on. Goed say

532
02:32:31.760 --> 02:32:48.160
>> Ted's trying to talk. >> When we say unrestricted community access, >> I in theory I like that, right? >> Sure. >> A percentage of it, not the entire thing, but there has to be a significant portion that is >> allocated. >> Right. Okay. that that was the only uh

533
02:32:48.160 --> 02:33:04.160
trepidation I was getting. Let's say somebody puts in a mixeduse banquet restaurant, for example, with outdoor seating and they want >> to be able to rent out the park for a wedding one day a week or something like that. You know, we don't want to we want to be able to consider that option without saying no, we can't do that. >> Absolutely. Right.

534
02:33:04.160 --> 02:33:20.560
>> Why wouldn't we just why wouldn't we then just say we we would grant more points to greater usage of these things as prioritized rather than trying to come up with arbitrary numbers. >> Okay. >> So like we would just say like okay if if we all agree that so now

535
02:33:20.560 --> 02:33:35.280
residential's off the table and then we all agree open space is number one. If that if that is what we all agree then we say the biggest portion of open space is the like the more open space the higher the weight that is given. Absolutely. >> And then you say whatever your second

536
02:33:35.280 --> 02:33:51.120
criteria is and maybe it's um >> I don't know building demolition or whatever. Just pick one and then say like okay so if you have 50% open space and the building is demolished now you are higher in weight than just 20% open space. Right. You're like creating a

537
02:33:51.120 --> 02:34:07.120
rubric for them to make to answer the questions. >> Absolutely. so that they could take their financing and say, "Okay, we have the financing and we have the rubric and so now we're going to answer to the highest and best use that the town's dictated." >> Well, >> so we just have to put them in order.

538
02:34:07.120 --> 02:34:24.000
>> So, I just want to things. One is do we know where we stand with >> um the RF? I'd have to request the RFP. Okay. >> I can't access You have it? >> Trying No, I'm trying to get into I've been looking. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, these folders. So, for me, um, the ability to finance it because I don't

539
02:34:24.000 --> 02:34:39.040
want to see like me and Danielle putting in an RFP for whatever and we really don't have the deep pockets. Well, maybe Danielle has the deep pockets to to make a big building and have 80% open space. I just want to make sure that we

540
02:34:39.040 --> 02:34:55.680
financially we have legitimate the so that is that's important. The other thing that's really important is the synergy to the hotel and the commercial corridor and then open space after that because you we're going to have open space no matter what in that area, but

541
02:34:55.680 --> 02:35:12.000
to have something that's going to be able to support the livelihood >> of that area and make the whole downtown work to me is really important. >> We don't want it to be a warehouse, right? I mean, >> correct. >> We don't want it to be a I don't know, >> parking lot. I don't know.

542
02:35:12.000 --> 02:35:28.720
>> Yeah. So the the only thing that I outside of getting all these emails related to residential, the next thing that came through most in public comment is open space. >> So for us to not make that the next I agree >> most important option agree would sort

543
02:35:28.720 --> 02:35:45.600
of invalidate why we took residential off the table in my opinion. >> Well, I think two things that you have a number of committees that have bound together to come in and to be a loud voice. All right, that's one thing. We also have other committees that have been nothing personal, but we've had

544
02:35:45.600 --> 02:36:01.840
other committees that are also loud voices that they want to see economic development and they have contacted us too. So I don't want it to be a battle of who's the loudest and who's sent in the most amount of emails. >> No, but when we came before town we I say we >> the original intent of the

545
02:36:01.840 --> 02:36:17.120
>> not us, but when the board came before town meeting to sell this property to town meeting to purchase, nobody promised economic development on that land. Nobody nobody stood up before town meeting and said we're going to have commercial mixed use here. They used the

546
02:36:17.120 --> 02:36:33.680
word open space. They that is how that is the you know the sort of switch that everybody clicked and decided okay this is why we want to invest in this parcel. So, if we are using and I'm >> fine to say residential's off the table

547
02:36:33.680 --> 02:36:47.920
because that was that does not align with what was sold at town meeting then it would be >> to me disingenuous not to put open space as the number one item that we say to the RFP respondent to say if you are not

548
02:36:47.920 --> 02:37:04.720
prioritizing open space then you better rethink this because that is >> you're going to be scored lower. I'm okay with that. But do we want to give more um inclination as to what we desire for the use of that open? >> No, I don't want to give them financially whatsoever to be honest.

549
02:37:04.720 --> 02:37:20.319
>> I want them to be >> I don't know. I think there's value. I think there's value in the definition. I want to say Paula from the open space recreation committee shared with us. >> Yes. >> On public comment last week, which was just purely the definition of open space for mass general law and I don't think

550
02:37:20.319 --> 02:37:36.720
it was editorialized beyond that. I thought that was valuable and >> I think we can I think we could define it. I think that's great to define what we think what we are saying open space is so that they have a clear understanding of how then to >> sure >> depict that but I don't think we should

551
02:37:36.720 --> 02:37:52.800
be >> putting any more boundaries >> pickle ball courts or something. >> Yeah, pickle ball. >> Yeah. No, >> I had to throw the joke >> or Marzy. No, I think I I think really there is not another direction to go in for number two, so to speak.

552
02:37:52.800 --> 02:38:07.439
>> Yeah, >> but to Mary Ellen's point, financially viable has got to be the is equally as important, if not more. >> So, it was the third uh criteria by which the proposals were evaluated, the financial resources and

553
02:38:07.439 --> 02:38:23.359
confirmation of abilities to secure financing necessary for the scope of the development and the respondents financial proposal to partner with the town. So most advantageous was someone with a positive historical record that >> in here. >> I think it has to be part of >> Yeah, I mean I do. I'm just wondering of

554
02:38:23.359 --> 02:38:37.920
items. >> These were topics that we wanted you all to give us feedback. This is one that I think >> it's great that you highlighted, but we're going to include it. >> I'm only I'm only Okay, I'm bringing it up because it wasn't on the agenda. >> These were items that we thought you all might have disagreement on.

555
02:38:37.920 --> 02:38:53.840
>> Okay. that we wanted to get >> seeing something come to fruition which is why we only limited how many how many months we were going to allow alternate use on that site correct because we wanted to bring something long-term to fruition >> permanent solution >> so I think that is very much aligned

556
02:38:53.840 --> 02:39:10.880
>> and and you gave some some wording of what that financial viability >> the we have it yeah >> okay so if we're saying >> wait what about timeliness >> what about >> has it already for development. Timeliness of development.

557
02:39:10.880 --> 02:39:29.600
>> You mean like we're not saying we're not going to issue >> they can complete this project. >> Correct. Correct. >> I'll have to look more. >> I think it is a criteria, but I don't know that like >> I don't think it's in the top sort of five or six that are laid out here, but I'll look. >> Okay. Um, one thing I just want to

558
02:39:29.600 --> 02:39:46.720
briefly touch on because >> feedback, um, it came up in a couple of the comments that we received today is sale versus lease >> is what? >> Sale versus lease >> because they think uh, a lot of people

559
02:39:46.720 --> 02:40:01.520
are under the misinformation that we just want to sell this to developers. >> I thought we already voted. We voted to throw that out. >> We we did. I'm clarifying for the public who has the misconception through public through their comment to us that they maybe missed

560
02:40:01.520 --> 02:40:18.319
>> the vote on this already and we agreed to lease not to sell. So just to be clear to the public >> town meeting has to vote on the sale of any public property. So there require a lot more of a runway even if we did want to do it which we do not. Period. Hard stop. >> Thank you Ted.

561
02:40:18.319 --> 02:40:33.920
>> Okay. So does this now kind of settle this piece of it with enough clarity that >> yeah I I think if we come back with a draft there might be a most advantageous least advantageous discussion that you all would >> okay >> need to engage in

562
02:40:33.920 --> 02:40:49.600
>> but this is like a direction and we can certainly take a you know if there's something that we don't feel like there's any direction we would leave it completely blank if not >> we can include it in the draft and you all can just direct us to make edits that are necessary and appropriate I think as as long as That's all right with you all. Yes.

563
02:40:49.600 --> 02:41:04.399
>> Great. And so I I just want to be clear for a from the to the public what the next steps are. Town staff will draft a version of an RFP, >> right? >> This will come back on the agenda to discuss.

564
02:41:04.399 --> 02:41:22.479
>> It will be discussed at least twice. I will say at least twice. >> We agree that it will be discussed twice. >> Uh probably more than twice. But this is not the last time for public engagement. There is more time for public engagement and we encourage folks outside of open

565
02:41:22.479 --> 02:41:39.359
space and wreck to come before us and talk about whatever they wish to see. But you mean the backup to the agenda? >> No, just the agenda. When you put it on when you post the select board meetings, are the agendas posted at that time? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, anybody in town will be able to see there's a meeting on a certain date and

566
02:41:39.359 --> 02:41:55.600
here's the agenda of what we're talking about? >> Thank you. >> Yeah. That describes all the things we talked about. out. >> I would also encourage the public at at large to sign up for alerts and emails that you can get directly anytime any agenda by any committee in town is

567
02:41:55.600 --> 02:42:12.720
posted. You'll get an email with a link to that. >> Yep. And that's on the notify me, not on the code red. There's >> this is on the website notify me the right >> the town's website. >> Oh, >> great. Um Yeah. And maybe we can just

568
02:42:12.720 --> 02:42:29.520
>> start reminding people that they can >> we put it in the newsletter. This is the second goound and we'll keep advertising on the socials as well. >> Okay, >> great. >> Maybe we can see if Katie can put it in with the census, too. >> Perfect. >> Amazing. >> Using that census.

569
02:42:29.520 --> 02:42:45.920
>> Okay. And the agendas are posted outside um on the uh inside town hall as well as outside by the library at the kiosk. So, if you don't have a way to access them online, they are typically posted there. >> Okay. >> Just one last note on the RFP. >> No, if I can,

570
02:42:45.920 --> 02:43:01.920
>> please. >> Um, and I I don't think this will be I think we'll probably all be in agreement on this. Um, are we all in agreement that we want to preserve where we we want to incent we want to prioritize development on closer to the street side

571
02:43:01.920 --> 02:43:19.120
and we would rather have open space be on the ocean side to the extent feasible. Is that generally kind of a consensus? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I I just point out the fact that if we again do get the church property, >> right, >> there's the opportunity for a wide a an

572
02:43:19.120 --> 02:43:33.760
asset of the open space itself, >> right, >> with with ocean views. So that's why I until that's settled, I I feel a little bit in a limbo with my determination to to to level the property in its entirety at least. Well, I think

573
02:43:33.760 --> 02:43:50.319
>> yeah, I I take the property leveling. I I guess we should think about that as well, but I was kind of taking that out of my calculation on this only so much as so town staff can have the parameter of if the building is not there, you know, commercial development should be encouraged to be closer to the

574
02:43:50.319 --> 02:44:05.359
streetscape and open space should be encouraged closer to the wateride. >> Yes. >> If the building's still there as you know, we have that conversation ahead of us, I guess. >> Okay. >> Okay. I know I'm not supposed to >> You're not You're not I'm sorry. You can come back to the next time that the RFP

575
02:44:05.359 --> 02:44:22.160
comes up and we will definitely hear public comment >> or email us. >> Yep. >> Katie, will there be a public hearing where there can be free flow back and forth at any point to this or will it only be public comment and then >> I hate that we can't respond to be quite honest. I but that's me. I like

576
02:44:22.160 --> 02:44:39.200
interactive two-way communication. But >> I mean we can discuss the opportunity to have one by itself public hearing where we present the draft and people are allowed to get in. >> We can discuss that idea. We've had that

577
02:44:39.200 --> 02:44:56.160
multiple times in this process already. >> You know, you're sort of damned if you do and damned if you don't because you get criticized for those types of processes because then people feel like okay, you know, I wasn't listened to or I that it's mis being misconstrued or like so yeah, we can certainly consider

578
02:44:56.160 --> 02:45:13.279
it Wayne is what I'm trying to say. Um, all right. Let's move on to item number six, which is discussion on parking enforcement. >> So, the idea tonight was to vote on fines. In the course of continued research, we found that the board in

579
02:45:13.279 --> 02:45:30.720
your wisdom voted in April of 25 >> just like we did >> to raise these. And so, the first one I found was in 23, I think, when you all did the beaches. And then 25 was adding everyone. >> It's not here in 23. I can't that >> well in 25 we were trying to revenue

580
02:45:30.720 --> 02:45:46.240
upon finding that out talked to Gino who was TA at the time and the chief and so there is not a clear understanding of why it was not changed immediately. What was >> I I have a clear understanding of why it wasn't I mean I really feel like

581
02:45:46.240 --> 02:46:03.439
>> you know we we have people in charge and I I really like to know why >> y >> why we didn't print these books saying what the fine was. So to me my understanding is the job didn't get done. That's >> right. I was I was looking for the root cause that we could try to correct in

582
02:46:03.439 --> 02:46:19.760
terms of was there a process that broke or something like that. But I don't disagree with you. >> We're right here. >> There was no process to be honest. >> What's the I mean we said it. We how much more of a process do you do you need >> there was follow through to implement that's the problem >> that's what I want to correct I don't disagree with what you're saying at all

583
02:46:19.760 --> 02:46:37.040
>> so what was approved again for >> $75 >> so 15 months of not charging >> correct >> right >> correct >> that's a that's a performance issue >> and I don't know where the fault lies I'm not going to try to sit here and

584
02:46:37.040 --> 02:46:52.960
figure it out to be honest but I want to know how we're going to go about right now as of tomorrow charging $75 for each fine. >> So the fines in the book now say 25 they can hand notate that they are 75 and they will begin doing that. >> How long will it take them to print new

585
02:46:52.960 --> 02:47:08.800
books or get new books? I asked what the inventory was so we know we have an idea of you know if they've just gotten a delivery I would rather they hand notate them and right >> we don't waste the money on the printing >> if they're at the end then the next round whether it's at the beginning or the end the next round will say 75

586
02:47:08.800 --> 02:47:25.920
>> won't matter tomorrow we're going to >> we're already charging >> but I don't want to sort of burn if we're do do we have inventory >> got to call all those people back over the last 15 months and say by the way you owe another 50 bucks on that >> do we need to have some sort of sticker that goes onto onto the book page.

587
02:47:25.920 --> 02:47:42.399
>> No, the the officer will make the notation by hand and be signing the ticket. >> They're warning $75 for tickets starting tomorrow. >> Nobody's listening to us. >> I don't want to hear it. An email should have been that should be your headlines

588
02:47:42.399 --> 02:47:57.920
tomorrow. >> What? >> How come was skipped? It was a third agenda item. >> I made the announcement at the beginning of the meeting. Nope. I made an announcement at the beginning of the meeting. >> A clear announcement at the beginning of

589
02:47:57.920 --> 02:48:14.479
the meeting that it was going to be tabled to September >> so that we could repost it. >> Yeah, she did. >> She did. >> Sorry, Joe. >> Sorry, Joe. >> I just thought he was really interested in Hawthorne. Okay.

590
02:48:14.479 --> 02:48:30.399
>> So, yes, after >> I I think most of the signs around town were updated to $75 or at least some of them were. >> For example, I believe Ferman's Beach says $75. >> I think that was the only one. >> Yeah. So, the beaches, Ted, we voted on in 23,

591
02:48:30.399 --> 02:48:47.040
>> I think. >> And that increased them to $75. At the time, those the signage by Phillips Fisherman's >> um was updated because it was very worn. We reconsidered when we were talking about ways about the budget about the

592
02:48:47.040 --> 02:49:01.920
school budget and the town bud budget and way to increase revenues. That's when we did the blanket across we should increase it everywhere. It should not just be contained to the um beach area. So, I don't I we should just be clear

593
02:49:01.920 --> 02:49:17.920
with DPW that as we order new signage that it needs to be corrected >> and then any old signs need to be >> honestly if there's any signs that list the fine, it should be removed. >> Okay, great. >> That's what happened by the beaches. >> It's just a prohibition that should be noted so that whatever the whatever the number is

594
02:49:17.920 --> 02:49:34.319
>> that the enforcement is decided by you all. We don't need to be changing the sign. We're changing the book. >> Okay. >> Right. >> Great. Okay. >> Okay. So, great. glad that that's a thing and that >> and then more broadly on parking and I included this in the note to the board I

595
02:49:34.319 --> 02:49:50.479
believe uh we anticipate being back on the 18th with a plan for >> how we can look at resial >> and whatever right >> how we can look at residential parking for you all to react to and provide feedback and say you're going in a good direction you're not >> this is okay it's not you know but we need

596
02:49:50.479 --> 02:50:05.040
>> it would be a significant change if we're talking about like zoned parking as an example and want to bring that before you so you can talk about it maybe come back to another meeting after it. So, the public would have an opportunity, but the idea is to come to the board on the 18th with that to start the process.

597
02:50:05.040 --> 02:50:21.279
>> Is there not like some state um consultants like through MSPCA or something like that that could help with the overall traffic sort of zoning like zones that we were talking about? Is that is that right? >> Is that animals?

598
02:50:21.279 --> 02:50:36.479
>> I think you meant MAPC. >> What did I say? MPCA. adopting cats and dogs. Um, you know who I meant to say. Hopefully >> you have any idea. >> The mass planning metropolitan area planning council something. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you.

599
02:50:36.479 --> 02:50:52.240
>> Area planning council. >> They have there must be a way that we can engage them to help us say like we know our park no just I'm talking about parking in general. We know parking is broken. We need help to figure out what's the best play what's the best play for us to move forward. We don't

600
02:50:52.240 --> 02:51:08.240
have a traffic, you know, enforcement council or anything like that. Help us figure out, >> you know, should we do zone parking? Where should the zones be? Like, I have to imagine that. >> I can't imagine there's anything for free, right? I can't imagine. This is this is something that the town

601
02:51:08.240 --> 02:51:24.800
had MAPC on retainer to do in 2017 and 18. We have a study that they provided the town back then. >> Okay. >> It's 10 years old almost. So, it's, you know, but it gives some general things that the board should look at. And Nick, I think I've sent it to you. It's

602
02:51:24.800 --> 02:51:40.800
circulated to the board. >> That would be great. Thank you. >> I would think we should also think maybe for next year's budget that we should look at applying for a assistance grant for a parking review with them again potentially to have a broader conversation about parking in, you know,

603
02:51:40.800 --> 02:51:55.439
better ways that we can address it and manage it from a holistic perspective with real metrics behind it. Yeah, >> longer term discussion, but we should consider that. >> Yeah, I think >> is that something Marzy can start researching or >> Yes. >> Yeah. Because I also think we've talked about whether or not, you know, certain

604
02:51:55.439 --> 02:52:10.479
areas should have metered parking or how that should work and like I think there needs to be some some teeth behind us doing that if we are going to do that. And I would like to see some rail data. >> Be great. >> Yep. >> I think we need to start looking at

605
02:52:10.479 --> 02:52:28.160
metered parking right now. Well, we I mean it's already been we've already discussed it >> and there already has been some data procured on it, but I just think >> we need to get >> and I think the two go hand in hand because if we were to have Humphrey metered then Blaney would become a place

606
02:52:28.160 --> 02:52:43.520
people want to park or it just without having enforcement and an idea of how we want to manage within the neighborhoods, >> the the closer we are to that area, I think we're setting ourselves up for >> a lot of pain. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I don't

607
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>> I would just like to have both both answers at the same time ideally. >> Okay. >> But how >> I don't want my worry is delay. Oh, go ahead Ted. Are you there? >> Yeah. No, my point I just want to emphasize where you're coming from. How can we take what Miel suggesting which I

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know you have talked about in the past and we've talked about a lot since Wayne and I joined the board. How can we kind of create this into a comprehensive plan of us addressing this as a issue of parking management, parking capacity, and potential parking meters? Because I feel like we need to have a more

609
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comprehensive way to look at this. >> Well, I think on the 18th when they come back, maybe that will help. >> That's our idea is working at a staff level. I think the idea that Ted's suggesting and we can price it out and see what MAPC would would cost, >> right, >> to work with us on something again

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>> knowing that they've got something to work from that they started from. >> Um, and we can figure out if it's something that can be managed within the budget or if we can't this year >> or if Marcy has any grant opportunity. >> Okay, >> good. >> Let's explore it. If the answer is no,

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nothing and then I'm not saying we don't take action, but I think we should just ask that question first. Okay. >> Okay. Anything else on that or saving the rest for the 18th? >> Correct. >> Great. Moving on to seven. Poss discussion and possible vote on the Linway

612
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>> multimod multimodal corridor project. >> Um, >> is this the bike lane? >> You want me to take this way more? >> What is this? The traffic on the bus. >> Wait, wait one second, Ted. Go ahead first. Sorry. Marilyn, >> thank you. Sorry. I just wanted to uh I

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have a role with the department of conservation and recreation that I was appointed as their stewardship council for the Essex County for so since DCR technically owns the property on the liway I am conflicted out of having a conversation about this on any topic that involves the DCR ownership so of

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that property. So I am recusing myself from this conversation. >> Thank you Ted. >> Does that mean you have to leave the room? Lucky you Ted. >> He's he's leaving. Are you are you signing? >> He has to leave. >> Are are you signing off of the meeting,

615
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Ted? Just >> can you just make me not a panelist? >> Uh, yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. Only because I want to know if you're going to come back for consent agenda and all of that. >> He's an attendee now. So, >> much on it.

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>> There isn't. But I just want to >> So, I'm not going to take up a lot of time on this. So, the Linway Corridor project has been out there. It's been in the newspapers. They had public meetings. I don't know if you all went to the public meeting. Um, I went to the

617
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public meeting. I felt that it was a gross waste of my time. I didn't think that they were listening to I don't think they had any intent to listen to what our concerns were. Um, they didn't have a pen or paper, absolutely nothing. So, I received a number of complaints

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from residents during office hours and during non-office hours about what kind of impact that this is going to have on getting to and from Boston for work. Um, I did speak with Erin Nunan at one point. We were she she's on the >> Marblehead

619
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>> Marblehead um select board and she was also commenting on what the impact was going to be for uh Marblehead. So, Marblehead, Swampscott, and NAN, I talked to Katie about us having a, you know, a small committee together so we

620
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could start discussing what the impact is going to be for all three communities and what we can actually do. So, we had a meeting uh about 10 days ago and what we need to do now is to get opinions from the all of our select boards on what you feel is important that has to

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be um addressed or changed. So if you could just look at the um the drawings, look at the summary sheet and put some thought into it and then get that back to me, I can bring that back to >> what other communities are >> Nant. So it's Nan >> Marblehead Marblehead and not Salem.

622
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>> No, we we don't have Salem there. If if you think that we should reach out to Salem, >> you know, we can do that as well if that's if that's your opinion. >> So uh two things. one, there have been business owners of the Linway who have reached out to me as chair just to say

623
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like this is really going to affect us negatively and we want to make sure like that we are united with um other boards and committees that also have concern. >> Um I've passed some of those on to Mary Ellen um to make sure that they're invited to the table to have

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conversations so that we can be >> coming forward with a holistic suggestion for how things could be modified. I don't think that uh just speaking candidly, I don't think we're going to stop it from occurring, but if there are changes that we can make that

625
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significantly impact um the in a beneficial way to our community, like that is what we're pushing towards. Um so I agree with Marielen that we should just educate ourselves on the project and then come back to the next meeting um with some thoughts and ideas. And I

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guess I we Marielle and I did briefly discuss like going coming to the table. If anybody is against going and having these conversations, speak now or else we will consider this the ability to continue on in this fashion. But I just think it's really important if we're going to effectuate any change that we

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have to unite with. >> Right. So the the goal is the goal is to get input from all of our select boards. And so any information that you have, just send that to Nick. Okay. and Nick can put it all together and then that

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will go to the you know this this committee. >> What is the timeline? >> We don't have an exact timeline. What we're looking for right now is we're looking to well we're looking to not dillydally but we're looking to give all the select boards enough time to really

629
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look and see what their opinions are. Um because have our the >> the elected officials Jenny Brendan does can anybody help us or are they not? >> We're going to we're looking to have a meeting with the lieutenant governor. >> So we're So here's the goal. The goal is

630
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to get input from all the select boards and then once we've identified what we want and what we're what we feel would be a good opinion, then we're looking for a meeting with the lieutenant governor. Okay. I >> I would imagine you'd want to get Salem involved if that's the case. as well.

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There might be some influence there. >> Well, >> we'll call Sale. >> Yeah, >> we'll do that. Um, what I would like to do is put it on the next agenda in on the 18th because >> I'd rather have this conversation publicly and transparently so people can come and speak at, you know, public

632
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comment if they have thoughts and feelings that they want us to convey or ideas. >> We did put it on this. I think if you could keep it if you could keep it if you could keep it on the agenda consistently just so that there's an update any kind of update so there just room to always >> yeah we can always you can always update

633
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during your select board time but yes I there is no reason not to put it on the next agenda or in the near future we will continue to do it but >> um so if we could just educate ourselves if there's information people have get it to Nick can facilitate it to all of us and then >> we'll have an open public discussion

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encouraging the public to also Did I send you Did I send you the uh comments from um Pat O'Reill the >> in the hunt? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, if you could send that those out to the select boards. I think if you look at Mr. O'Reilly's comments, that'll also give you another idea of

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>> he's the engineer. >> I I went to the same um event that you did. I my my takeaway was uh very very similar to yours. Um I was very distressed at some of the plans that were being proposed. um and um feel very

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strongly that you know a strong strong feedback to to the state needs to be needs to be had. >> I think the other issue that that we're going to have there is they're looking at putting in the new the new high school at >> Revier. >> Oh yeah. >> And there's also construction going on

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at one of the bridges. So you're going to have all of these different construction sites going at the same time >> and >> a nightmare. It will be truly a a >> a nightmare >> parking lot of traffic. >> Well, >> right.

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>> Hopefully, we can still take the ferry. >> So, >> not not in the winter. >> My understanding from being at that seminar is that they don't have an actual timeline yet for this. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. In terms of a we're going to do it by >> Huh? >> Because I asked. >> Well, when when timelines get put on

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state projects, then they often >> This is fedally funded. What? >> There's also state, but it's state run. No. >> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. >> So, it it's probably something and I don't know this for certain living in like year four and five in the tip.

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>> Yeah. >> And just slides repeatedly because this has been discussed >> many times >> since I worked in Boston at DCR. >> Okay. >> Right. And the federal government >> connections over in DCR land that can >> I don't think that they would necessarily disagree with anything

641
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that's been >> but I don't speak for them. Of course not. >> So >> I happy to reach out. >> Reach out. >> All right. Well, let's let us organize. >> That was just the update. So if if you can um we're going to meet on Wednesday again just to give the update. So my

642
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update is just going to be that I've updated the select board and you all have the information. Um and but if >> if from there any additional information, you'll get it to Nick and he'll get it to us and we'll have a conversation on the 18th. But if if if

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input can be sent to Nick within the week, that would really be appreciated. >> Do you do you think there might be an opportunity if all three or four communities are involved that we can do one more um maybe do a joint session of some sort and have having MBTA come in

644
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and do a presentation to to everyone? >> I think we can shoot for anything >> and then we can have some open questions and discussion with them directly. just we have to be realistic about Okay, the first thing is I think we have to be organized and realistic about what the goal is. >> So if the goal is to educate, I think

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they're happy. If the goal is that like >> a month from now, we're going to say like come in, educate, and then we're going to make some suggestions. We have to be realistic about whether or not they're going to take those on. That that is I think why the thought from the working group is to have conversations at a higher level because it doesn't

646
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seem like >> people are inclined to I just want to make sure that we're working with accurate information that everyone on the board and the other boards collectively are working with accurate information because one of the things we you know you pick up things in the media or so or or social media and

647
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you may not have it exactly right. So I want to make sure whatever assumptions we may or may not be making is is locked into truth with with the MBTA's assumptions and and plan. >> So why don't you put I think that's a great idea. I think just put that down and then send that to Nick and then I

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will deliver that >> and that'll be something we could push for. >> Recorded. >> They they are but they do not do it justice compared to actually when you're seeing and looking at the map and getting explanations. I'll just say that because I've done I've both watched it and was present and being present was

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way more enlightening than it was >> just seeing it on online. >> I I think this project this is this is scary. I don't want to scary but >> this is just like >> impactful. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. We have direction and um I'm glad

650
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to hear that the region is coming together to help it all of its um citizens. Hopefully, we can get something off the ground here. Um Ted, you can come back. I don't know how you would know that if you're not listening. So, we'll move on

651
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to the consent agenda. Um there's three items on the consent agenda. I think we're pulling the um hawker and pedaller application for Mr. Driscoll. >> Why? >> To the consent agenda because Wayne has some questions. >> Yeah. Oh, we do that now or do you want

652
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to >> pull it now? So, the amended consent agenda would be items two and three. So, if somebody want >> make a motion to vote for the amended consent agenda. >> Second. >> Uh Mary Ellen made the motion. >> Uh second. >> Yes or no? I >> Yeah. I Yeah.

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>> Ian's an I. >> I. >> Ted, are you on? >> We promoted him back. >> I >> Okay. >> Um and I So, we will now talk about the approval of the Hawker Pedal application for Mr. Driscoll. >> So, um Mr. Driscoll and his son Connor

654
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came in um two meetings ago or so, I think, asking for permission. Uh I think it was in public comment. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um and uh that that was to be able to paint numbers on the curb side. Yeah. >> Um I think it's a great idea, right? Um

655
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>> he had also written uh to Gino and also a copy of the select board um asking for support. Um I had sent an email to Nick and Gino back in June asking some questions. Um, I just want to bring some

656
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awareness to the board for for why this is a good idea, but there's some process that needs to be in place, I think, for this. Um, so there's there's a there's a couple of things, and I'll just kind of go down the list here. So, one, I don't

657
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think there are any existing any existing bylaws or or DPW rules that would um dictate um how big, what color, what size whatnot. Um, just to note that the curb is in fact the property of the town.

658
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>> Um, and that asking for a homeowner's permission um, well, uh, friendly and all, right, does not actually it's not legally relevant one way or the other. So, we're giving a a business permit for them to do and

659
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transact business by going house to house. Great. the the work that's being performed on public property is what I have >> concerned about. >> Not not concerns per se of doing it or not, but the consistency of how it's done. So, one

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thing I would like to ask Gino and Nick as town administrator is to come up with a standardized some sort of procedure and policy so that we have some level of standardization of size, color, font, um, appropriate paint type quality. One

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of the difficulties of doing this type of work in the Northeast is that we scrape the crap out of these things with during snow and once you see 91 at one point may become something completely different >> like nine >> or nine or just one. Right.

662
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>> Right. >> Um at at what point does that become if you have a couple hundred of these and hey, God willing they'll be successful at it. That's great. At what point does that become an issue for the town to have to fix or an expectation legally?

663
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No. Is it our do we have to do is but is there some town expectation in a year or two from now that hey my my number looks wrong. It's off. What do I do? >> So what I'd like to do is to be able to put a procedure in place in terms of the minimum qualifications to what it has to

664
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look like. Therefore, the homeowner can be allowed to do it his or herself or they can choose to to pay for it through, you know, the just goals, which is fine. Um, so if we can get a a spec that's

665
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good for everyone across the board, I think that would be a solution. And I'd also like, you know, it's subject to approval of the DBW director and also um subject to approval of uh both chiefs because this really is for emergency um

666
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first responder, you know, visualization. So if if we could get that some sort of policy or procedure back that everybody can follow, I'm totally good with it. >> So I have questions, Nick. Do other towns do this? Is this something that like other towns have done?

667
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>> Yes, some communities do. I mean >> like around us that we know of. >> I haven't looked into it. I I know I've seen it. >> Okay. >> In my travels. I mean, you know, it's something that is done, but I don't know that it's uh >> Do we know how much they're going to charge for this or is this >> No, that's not something we would ask

668
03:09:06.640 --> 03:09:22.640
for someone that's, you know, looking. >> Okay. So, my my only thing is a couple years back the football boosters spray painted >> big blue fans. >> Big blue fans on sidewalks. I bought one. It's like still on my sidewalk,

669
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>> which is technically not my property. I guess it's probably the town's and probably half of this town has it on their sidewalk. >> Like I don't know why this is different. Do you know what I'm saying? Like is this why we would go through this formal a process for this? Is that

670
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>> I think at its base the question is because of the public safety side but >> there there's that but there's also there's also the the and I know exactly what you're talking about. Those things aren't expected to last. >> Oh, it's been there for years. >> Has it lasted years on years? I mean I've seen where it's been done and it's

671
03:09:55.840 --> 03:10:12.800
gone within a year or two. Um but these >> what we're asking for is something that's going to be done and >> this is permanent. The intent is highly be highly visible and have more permanence. Um, the other thing I would ask for is whether or not, and and this

672
03:10:12.800 --> 03:10:27.920
has been done again with what you talked about also. I know I think the Girl Scouts or the Brownies were doing um painting on the sewers. Um, >> see, right. Yes. Uh, discharge to the ocean or something like that. >> Correct. So, and I and I talked about

673
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this with Gino today. I'm like, >> what what do we do when you have young miners working in the street? Do they have do we have we have vis we require visibility jackets? I mean some level of >> Is it legal >> of of >> seriously?

674
03:10:44.640 --> 03:11:00.240
>> I just don't I'm trying to protect us from some level of liability here >> with you. Yeah. >> Um do we need safety cones? I'll leave that up to staff. >> Leave that up to you, Nick. >> And and hire a police detail if he's in the street. >> Clearly not.

675
03:11:00.240 --> 03:11:14.800
>> No, >> I don't know. >> I don't actually to be honest. I don't know that clearly not is the answer. I think >> on Humphrey Street or if you're in Paris >> dictate colors, dictate process. So >> Oh, good. Okay. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> You know, this will be a conversation we'll call tomorrow to start. Um

676
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assuming that it's approved >> and happy to address each of these individually and if there's a policy in place that makes it prohibitive or cross prohibitive and that'll be a conversation I can have with them. But as long as those criteria are handled where we have some specification of

677
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size, color, what paint we'd prefer them to use, whatever is if it's cost prohibitive, that just goes into them charging whatever they need to charge, which I'm not dictating their private business. >> I would trust Nick to handle it. But >> yeah, >> it's up to you guys.

678
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>> DPW traditionally handle house numbers, sizing, all that sort of stuff. you do planning for for example for a new subdivision or anything that all gets handled by Mark and Gino at DPW and the ten engineering department. So we'll be f and what is happening there with that

679
03:12:00.960 --> 03:12:17.439
property um both with the fundraising effort and um the potential deal there. Um, I'd also like to know if we're up to date on the rent payments for Hawthorne

680
03:12:17.439 --> 03:12:33.680
now with July being passed and if they have a projected opening date. >> That would be great. Um, that's all I have. >> Wayne, you have anything? >> Um, no, I'm good.

681
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>> Ted, >> no. Nothing for me. Thank you, >> Maryan. >> Yep. So, I have a couple things. One is uh at the next meeting, can you please uh get us the ARPA money update because I think it expires in December. Everything has to be used and I know

682
03:12:50.880 --> 03:13:07.520
that there is an issue with historic money that was given to historic and not being able to get into the property. So, I don't want to lose money, but want to see what we have to do. Um, >> sorry to interrupt, but on that note, if they can't use it, how we re I think we

683
03:13:07.520 --> 03:13:22.479
could reallocate it for that we've already done before. >> I put update and reprogram >> you can get repro so it can get re put it back into the sewers or whatever we have in there. >> Um I want to give an update on just a couple things. The retirement board is

684
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doing very well on their returns. Um and the only thing that they're dealing with is they are dealing with an issue as to whether or not a certain job performance by the police department is considered retirement. So, I know that they have they're waiting on an answer back from

685
03:13:38.319 --> 03:13:53.359
legal and they're just working that out. It's really not a big deal. I think there's some state I think some uh some things have already gone to court so there'll be state precedents on that. Um and on the I talked to Sabrina with the

686
03:13:53.359 --> 03:14:09.680
council on aging and uh swamps for all ages and I just want to pass on a couple highlights. In the month of July, they had almost a 26% increase in ridership with transportation services with July rides going up 248 versus June 197. And

687
03:14:09.680 --> 03:14:26.880
the reason for that is they have brought transportation in on Fridays. Um so that that makes a pretty big deal for them. Um >> due to the um donation by big blue bargain. >> They don't they don't state that here. I can't I can't you know elaborate on that, but I'm I'm going to guess it was

688
03:14:26.880 --> 03:14:42.479
they had some extra funding. So they're able to do more rides on Fridays. >> That's great. >> Um they said in July the van was on the road every Friday allowing us to bring members to the movies, to lunch, even a portion of Friday bingo. So they're getting more people in um during the

689
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day. They're just going out and picking them up. Um so they're going to keep doing that through um August. They're also ser they served um 155 meals in July versus the 140 in June and they're hoping they're going to continue that to

690
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increase their lunch participation. I know Sabrina is also looking at some new ideas is possibly opening up lunch to um people less than senior age. So couple couple of you will be able to go whereas the rest of you do qualify. um the

691
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summer uh integration, their integration art program. Uh that's working out really well. There's going to be an art show on August 13th at 11:30 and um they're very grateful for the support of the Swam High School students. There's

692
03:15:27.520 --> 03:15:43.359
17 17 Swampscott High School students volunteered. I mean, I got to tell you, we have really impressive high school students. I I just they amaze me all the time. I'm at the farmers market and we have a crew that comes down there led by

693
03:15:43.359 --> 03:15:59.200
um Anthony I forget Anony's last name but >> Kalala. Kala >> Kalalala. He is a home run with his group. Um >> so they're looking they're still looking for their outreach coordinator. Um and things are going really well. The one

694
03:15:59.200 --> 03:16:14.080
thing that uh Sabrina is talking about is the possibility of extending having an a larger outdoor patio facility that we can get a threeseason get some more space over there. And um the other thing

695
03:16:14.080 --> 03:16:31.520
that I just want to bring up is um we did bring up at the last meeting the uh issue with parking, resident parking on Ingles Terrace that you're working on. And the one thing that you brought up was the possibility of of safety safety vehicles not getting up there. And I

696
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would like immediately that both of our chiefs, our fire chief and our police chief give us a report in two weeks or at the latest four weeks. >> The fact for me to sit in here that a a fire truck or a safety vehicle cannot get up a vehicle and the only reason

697
03:16:48.000 --> 03:17:03.520
we're even talking about it is because we're talking about resident parking is unacceptable. I want to make sure that every single street in this town is accessible to the fire truck. So I would like the fire department, the police department, whoever to get us a report

698
03:17:03.520 --> 03:17:19.920
notifying us that every single street is acceptable. And the other thing is the fire hydrants and everything and it it was really a horrible horrible loss. So I just want to make sure that that we are using the labor force to really give us an update. It was a few weeks ago on

699
03:17:19.920 --> 03:17:36.800
a Saturday. I was driving to work at 10 o'clock and there were a couple firefighters sitting outside in aderond chairs reading and I thought to myself, "Wow, you know, that's strange." And on my way back from

700
03:17:36.800 --> 03:17:52.800
work at 3:00, there was a firefighter washing a vehicle, a private vehicle. And I have a I have trouble with that. Um because then when I later hear that there's a possibility some of the streets

701
03:17:52.800 --> 03:18:08.560
can't take a fire truck and also the street that we were just talking about that's across from Marshall. What is that? Cedar >> Cedar Hill. >> Cedar Hill. Cedar Hill Terrace. You know, I went down Cedar Hill Terrace about two weeks ago and there's no way a fire truck was getting down there with

702
03:18:08.560 --> 03:18:25.840
the amount of cars that were parked on both sides of that street. You know, >> also Ocean Avenue going down to the beach. Um, this year I don't think we've had any problems, but in the past on a very, very busy day on Ocean A, you cannot get a fire truck when two cars

703
03:18:25.840 --> 03:18:42.000
are parked on the side. Now, we had Pete Kaine here from the planning board tell us that that was definitely possible. It is not possible. So, I I just want to make sure that we we tune up our um our safety and that the select board gets a report on it. >> Okay.

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>> Thank you. I think the hydrants are definitely an issue because I don't think they're all operational. I've heard that from more than one person. >> I have seen >> so I think that is something we need. >> Recently I have seen like some of them were bagged for sorry >> in addition to a plan or an expectation

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of when they would be and what it would take to get them >> up to working. >> Oh, I have >> I'm sorry. Just before I finish, I also just want to thank Ethan be accomplished and I know they were waiting for some feedback. I just want to check in on that, see where that's at. And then I do

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>> just need to have a look taken at them. It was one of the things that we all talked about in May and June. >> So we're going to meet on it, discuss some of it, and then I will bring comments back and whether or not that ends up as a larger meeting or not, we will go from there.

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>> So all right. So I will take a motion if somebody >> move second >> to adjurnn. Um we have to roll call. Ted, >> are you still here? >> He said I. >> Okay. >> Wayne, >> I said I >> I

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and I'm an I. Thank you everybody. >> Thank you. >> Have a good night. Thank you.