Got to rub it in, Doug. >> Thank you. Good evening. Welcome to the Wednesday, February 11th, uh, 2026 select board meeting. We are being recorded. If you would please rise for the pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Sorry. >> Okay, just making sure everybody's awake.
Um we will start with the recognition of a retiring police lieutenant Tom Hennessy. Um Chief is here. Would you like to uh start? Would you mind? >> Sure. Um good evening everybody. I just
want to recognize uh Lieutenant Tom Hennessy who just retired uh last week after almost 30 years of service with the town. Now, if you know anything about Tom, Tom is a he is one of the pride of Swampscott. He grew up in
Swampscott. He lives, breathes, eats everything Swamp Scott. Uh he >> I always say that Tom is the most intelligent person, was the most intelligent person in the police department cuz uh he would always throw it in our face that he went to
Georgetown. So, um but he he didn't want any recognition. He just like Tom um our police union also tried to throw him a a retirement part a retirement celebration and he did not
want any part of it. So um I'll just add that Tom has been a mainstay in our supervisory ranks for many years. He w he has been the MAD officer of the year for uh several years. uh he is the one
who uh allowed us and he wrote the grant for our municipal road safety. He has just been incredible and most most importantly he has uh mentored our younger officers and I I know I wouldn't
have been successful without Tom's help as well. So um just like we all know Tom, Tom doesn't want any recognition. He's very thankful. He's very happy to be retired now. Um, but uh I'm here to accept uh any award or or any uh
recognition for Tom. >> Thank you, Chief. We do have a um a little citation that the select board has signed in recognition of his service to the town and a small token of our appreciation. Um, and you know, as I
always say, when you serve publicly, there's a uh you give yourself to the town in such a way, but your family also gives themsself up so you can serve us. And so we appreciate him and his family for that service.
>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Anybody else like to say anything about Lieutenant Hennessy? >> Um, I would. So I I know Tom Hennessy from the neighborhood in which I live. His parents were my neighbors and um
they were very act they are they were very active in Swampscott. Um his mother always reminded us that he's at Georgetown, graduated Georgetown. Um but with Tom, Tom is a very modest
individual. He is a man of high regard. Like he's a man of his word. He's very honorable individual. And I can tell you as a resident here, knowing when he was working, I just knew we were incredibly
safe all the time. He was very dedicated. So I think um you know he will be he will be truly missed. He spent a lot of time if he stopped by the farmers market, he would talk to kids. He'd let kids come by the police
station. He just got right on their level. And he's, you know, he's just a wonderful guy. And I wish uh I wish him a lot of success. Wish his wife and his family a lot of success with his retirement. And um I hope I see him I
hope I see him working on details and things like that to say hi. So >> we'll probably see him walking around town. I hope >> sure on his uh his uh walks for exercise. >> He's just he's a great guy. Comes from a great family. His father was the assistant harbor master many years
volunteering, never asking for anything. He's just, you know, just a great family. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very um move on to another happy acknowledgement. We are appointing a new
treasure collector. >> Yes, I I'm happy to talk a little bit. We have Liam uh who's joining us, I think, in the >> virtual world. Um >> we see him there. >> Yep. So, Liam will be joining as the treasurer collector. We were lucky enough to meet him in the process of
working to build out the finance team. Um the reviews that we've gotten from folks in uh Kerry, North Carolina, which is where he is right now, have been absolutely glowing. And it's been a very similar uh career path uh honestly to to Patrick's on the team down there where
he started following the completion of his MPA um and has moved up through the ranks and he's currently the budget director down there. Uh he's relocating up here. We are really excited to have him joining us in a position that is incredibly important certainly to the community, but very specifically to
Patrick so that we can take one more role off of his plate and focus him on the finance director efforts. Um, and so we're really excited to have Liam. As I said, he's a graduate of Elon University and an MPA from UNCC Chapel Hill. So, uh, really looking forward to having
having him join us. >> Excellent. Should we put him on the spot and let him say something or you think he's good? >> I think he's probably ready to if you'd like to. Yeah. Should we unmute him for a second there? >> He had a 3.9 out of four. I'm sure he's got something to say.
>> I think you can. All right. There you >> can. >> Can you all hear me? >> We can. >> You passed your first test. You unmuted yourself at the meeting. So, that's a good sign. >> Yes. I've used Teams before, so excellent. It should be a good acknowledgement. Um, no, thank you for
that introduction. Um, I think he hit all of the best parts, but I'm really excited to get up there and um, start doing good work for Swans and um, in my experience in budget as well as in the finance department in a couple different places. I've got a lot of good
experience um, working with cash management as well as working just in municipal finance. And I'm really excited to come up there, learn about Massachusetts, and be a part of the team. Thank you, Liam. We're excited to have you. When does it start?
>> You waiting till the snow melts or something or >> No, we're looking at March. We're finalizing the date. The first half of March, I believe. >> Great. >> Yeah. >> Welcome, Liam. Here we go. >> See you in March. >> Oh, and Cat.
>> It's coming through. You all will need to make a motion to >> Okay, so we need a motion to appoint our new treasur collector, Liam Brilley. >> Motion to appoint. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I I >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. Okay, we will move on to the reading of the 2026 Black History Month proclamation. We have a special guest today to help us if you wouldn't mind. Do you have a microphone? >> Bring a microphone.
>> There you go. Thank you, Nick. Appreciate that. And you can do it from >> uh Thank you, Madam Chairman. Uh my name is Ralph Bedwitz. I'm a member of Shore Diversity, uh the diversity group here
in uh Swamp Scott. Uh uh and one I want to thank the select board and the town administrator for this annual recognition of uh of black of black history month. And uh this is the uh
proclamation that's being uh presented. Uh there's several whereasses on it. And if anyone else wants to uh participate in reading this, just join me and we can pass it on. of Black History Month. Whereas black
history is American history, February is Black History Month, a time to honor the history and achievements of black Americans and to reflect on the centuries of struggle that have brought us to this historic moment, to live up
to the founding principles of our nation and the town of Swampscott, that all people are created equal with rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And whereas this observance affords a special opportunity to become
more knowledgeable about black heritage and to honor black citizens who have contributed to Swampscott's economic, cultural, spiritual, and political development. And whereas the observance of Black History Month calls our town's
attention to the continued need to expose and reduce racism, to develop and practice skills to become anti-racist, and to build a society that lives up to its democratic ideals. This year's celebration and recognition of Black
History Month are especially significant as we reflect on the historic challenges facing our community and our nation at this time. And whereas we acknowledge that black history is American history.
Stories and facts fully interwoven in the political, economic, cultural, scientific, and democratic fabric that makes our nation great. And whereas national policing strategies reminiscent of antibbellum and the Jim Crow
practices test constitutional safeguards, we are proud to celebrate community policing, including assembling the most diverse group of Swamp Scott police officers and firefighters in the history of our town. These efforts have
helped to advance public trust and safety as we build a brighter, more inclusive future for our town, our community, and our nation. And whereas the town of Swampscott is proud to celebrate Black History Month and pledge
our continued commitment to build a welcoming community, one that reflects the full talents and diversity of the American people and that is committed to building to build a future that is inclusive and ready to confront
persistent racial inequities and the systemic racism that continue to plague our community and nation. And whereas Swampscott unites, respects, embraces diversity, will hold a Black
History Month celebration on Tuesday, February 24th, 5:30 to 7:30 p.m. at Swampscott High School to share important conversations about Swampscott's black history and work to build a more inclusive community.
Now, therefore, the town of Swampscott hereby establishes February 2026 as Black History Month in the town of Swampscott, Massachusetts, and encourages all faith-based and nonprofit organizations, residents, businesses, civic, and public
institutions to acknowledge, honor, value, and celebrate black citizens and celebrate our diverse heritage and culture and continue our efforts to create a world that is more just,
peaceful, and prosperous for all. A witness whereof, we have here unto set our hands and cause to be affixed the great seal of the town of Swampscott, Massachusetts, this 11th day of February, 2026.
And it is signed by the uh board of select the select board. >> Thank you very much. >> And thank you for the proclamation. Absolutely. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Ralph. >> Thank you, >> We have an additional proclamation this
evening. Uh, and we have another special guest to read that proclamation. Miss Soul was uh a person that had reached out regarding some of the current events and um offered to help make sure this proclamation came to
fruition. So, for that, I appreciate her time and energy. and she will be presenting the proclamation on the federal immigration enforcement, civil liberties, and the protection of human life. >> Thank you so much. Uh the proclamation on federal
immigration enforcement, civil liberties, and the protection of human life. Whereas in January 2026, multiple incidents involving federal immigration enforcement resulted in the killing, detention, or harm of civilians in the United States, including the fatal
shooting of Renee Nicole Good, a 37year-old US citizen, by an agent of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, ICE, and the fatal shooting of Alex Jeffrey Pratty, a 37year-old US citizen, by agents of US Customs and Border
Patrol, CPB, in Minneapolis, Minnesota during federal immigration enforcement operations. And whereas these incidents have occurred amid intensified federal immigration enforcement actions, including raids, detentions, and deportion operation, deportation
operations carried out in civilian neighborhoods, workplaces, and public spaces. Actions that have caused fear, disruption, and harm to immigrant communities as well as to US citizens, and have undermined a sense of safety in communities across the nation. And
whereas the killing of civilians and the use of force, intimidation or coercion in such settings have prompted widespread national outrage, public grief and civic response, raising profound alarm about the erosion of public trust and the consequences of
government actions that place lives at risk. And whereas such acts of violence and harm, whether directed at immigrants or US citizens, are unacceptable and stand in direct contradiction to the fundamental American rights and values that form the foundation of our
democracy, including the rights to life, liberty, due process, peaceful expression, and freedom from fear. And whereas the town of Swamscott reaffirms its commitment to being a community where every person is safe, treated with dignity, and protected under the law,
and where policies and practices that endanger lives, divide families, or instill fear in our neighbors are incompatible with our shared civic values and responsibility to one another. Now for by the authority vested in the Swampscott Select Board, we do
hereby condemn the loss of life, harm, and fear resulting from these actions, affirm our unwavering commitment to fundamental rights, accountability, and transparency, and declare that the safety, dignity, and humanity of all people are essential to the strength of
our community and to the health of our democracy. In witness thereof, we have here unto set our hands and caused to be affixed the great seal of the town of Swamcot, Massachusetts, this 11th day of February, 2026, and signed by all members of the select board. Thank you
so much. >> Thank you very much. >> Um, madam madam chair. >> Yeah. >> Oh, please. So, you know, I know I know this month um Boston Mayor Woo and several greater Boston leaders, including those from Newton, Lynn,
Somerville, Cambridge, and Chelsea, signed executive orders which banned immigration and customs enforcement from using city property, including city buildings, parks, and parking lots for enforcement operations. This act these actions aim to protect residents from what leaders call aggressive federal
tactics. I think we should do the same in Swamp. Doug. >> Um, well, I just first wanted to say thank you to Kiko for getting us going on this. Um, I think that uh many of us
feel uh hopeless uh in the face of what is happening. And uh I think this is a you know a proclamation one could say does nothing. Um but one could also say it is actually at least using our voices
to express our dismay and anger and um concern about what's happening to our fellow citizens and even non-citizens, people who live here. Um and I just really want to appreciate you and the fact that you're uh taking some steps to
do something uh and allowing us to take a step to do something. And I think if we all take these small steps together uh which is happening uh across the country uh especially our friends in Minnesota uh standing up to what's
happening that um the the tide I think is turning um uh unfortunately extremely unfortunately for these two individuals and their families um way too much has been sacrificed but um if we all kind of
band together I think um the the tide is starting to turn and um we of course need to continue these actions. So, thank you very much. >> So, I just want to say thank you to Kiko also um for reaching out, for drafting
it, for helping us get the words out and and really understand what to say and to the other residents of Swampscott who have reached out. You're not the only one. Um so certainly I echo all of your thoughts. We exchanged a lot of emails about this and you know um it's a
difficult time. It's a difficult issue but I am not of the mindset that um it's the time to stay quiet right if ever there was a time to not be quiet it's now. That's how I feel personally. Um and I would echo what David is asking
for. And I mean I I think that we've certainly heard it from our residents. It's not something that's uh just, you know, a personal feeling of anybody on this board. Um but I believe it's our obligation to actually speak out and um do what's right at this time. So, thank
you. Um, so I have reached out to the town administrator about getting um the request on the next agenda so that we can make a public stance on where the town of Swampscott will fit into um, you know, as other communities have stood up
and said, you know, not in our backyard. Um so just want to make sure that we you know check with all the correct avenues and get it done properly so that we are putting ourselves in the best position to enforce it should we have to. Um also
we did invite the uh chief here. So if you could maybe reiterate I know we had um Captain Cable in a little while ago to talk about some of this stuff but it unfortunately seemed a little different then uh than it maybe does now. So maybe
if we could just reiterate for our community um sort of what the current stance is on um immigration. >> Absolutely. Thank you. We do not enforce immigration enforcement. Uh, in fact, I believe Captain Cable had touched on it,
but uh, we strictly adhere to the Lond versus Commonwealth decision back in 2017 where the Supreme Judicial Court stated that Massachusetts law enforcement officers cannot detain an individual past their state release time. Um, that would be be considered an
unlawful arrest. Um, so again like Captain Cable said, we don't collect any any immigration information. Uh, we do not uh assist with any immigration enforcement whatsoever. And I'll also add uh personally I've been involved
with uh I'm a national co-chairperson for the law enforcement immigration task force. I've been with that um that consortium uh for over nine years and and it truly is a consortium of police chiefs and sheriffs throughout the
country who uh are advocating for sensible immigration reform. Uh, additionally, I provided in my role as the co-chair person, uh, provided uh, subject matter expert testimony uh, in
November of 2025 that was sent to Senator Padilla's office uh, and that was included in congressional testimony uh, back in uh, November 2025. So, uh,
not only do we abide by the law, um, but we also have to be sensible in our humanity and morality in in anything to do with, uh, the topic of immigration, immigration enforcement.
>> Thank you. Appreciate. I have a question. Can you just um reiterate what Captain Cable had brought up um in the fall like for residents? What what do residents do if they they feel that
there's an something going on in their neighborhood or they they feel they have any fear whatsoever? Can you just reiterate what was said in the past? >> Certainly. Thank you for that. Uh we are advising anybody uh our community to
contact the police department. If there's ever any question uh whatsoever in anyone's mind whether there is law enforcement activity uh we can I I can tell you we've never had any uh
notification by ICE or DHS, but we can at least confirm. We can respond. We will record uh on our body cameras uh any any uh interactions or suspicious activity uh that the public uh has any
questions about whatsoever. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I think in a time of a lot of fear and unknowing um any steps that the public has available to them to mitigate that
is really important. So if if at all you fear what is happening in your neighborhoods, please reach out. Um and um just hope and pray that we keep our community members safe. So >> if I might add one more thing, uh the
Mass Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association, which represents all police chiefs throughout the Commonwealth, um are compiling national best standards for in dealing with this. that is in accordance also with our laws in Massachusetts. That is
forthcoming. That is a a a big topic right now. Uh I will be providing a summation to our legislators uh in on March 4th in Essex County. Um, since I have a lot of, uh, experience with this,
uh, in Arizona where we had Senate Bill 1070, uh, the most, um, egregious immigration enforcement activity that's ever happened in the United States. >> Well, maybe after that, we can have
another update and find out if there's anything else we can be doing in a time of, like I said, time of hopelessness. It's nice to to be reminded of people who are helping and feel hopeful that uh if you feel helpless that somebody can help. So,
>> I do want to say too um just a thanks to the chief, we're incredibly lucky to have someone that has dealt with this type of issu immigration issues from a different part of the country here in Swamp Scott and it makes me feel incredibly safe to to know that you're heading up our police force.
>> I think that's why I'm so passionate about it. >> Yeah, absolutely. and you've got a wealth of experience and we're really lucky to have you in this role. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay, we will now move on to the TA report. >> Thank you. Um to to the points that were
just being made. Uh I have had conversations with KP Law on the the work they're doing with other communities to figure out David to your point what cities and towns what difference there may be and also making sure that we're doing things that can be impactful and appropriate um on a
regular basis as well. The attorney general's office does a I believe it's like twice a month uh webinar or once a month webinar for communities to have a better understanding of exactly where they are in supporting um the state's response to enforcement. Uh and as you know we have a very active attorney
general in many respects in the interactions with the federal government. So it's again another resource that's made available to many communities and I'll be working with Janelle and the chief uh to have something to come back with you on the 25th. But in addition to that, as you just suggested, it's probably something
that once a month, maybe depending on things like the testimony to the legislators, uh we can make sure that the chief is here and available as well to answer any questions or to give an update on things that he's heard or participated in if that works for you all. >> Yep. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um so getting to the the the rest of the
TA report. Um the first update is for on the HR side for me and obviously we had Liam join us tonight, uh which we're very excited about. In addition, we have a new assistant town accountant who's starting next week. Uh her name is Kylie Gates. Um she's currently CPA, a
graduate of Salem State, and you know, again, was just a great candidate when she got in front of Patrick and myself and and Maryanne and others. So, we're very excited to have her. And then you may notice down um in the first row, we have our new executive assistant for you all and myself, uh Shannon Olirri. Today
is her first day. She's joining us from Danvers. Um, we're very excited. Uh, I know she's probably a little overwhelmed today, but Dianiana has been fantastic about trying to not only shepherd her around the room, around the building, but, um, you know, get her comfortable with all the different things that we'll
be doing to support you all and myself. Um, so there's that. A general update. As everyone's aware, it's on the agenda later tonight. the Hawthorne reuse RFPs came in or the responses came in and we also uh had an opportunity to put together a fivep person evaluator
committee uh that had sent along some information to you all for you to make to make a decision on tonight. We'll get into that a little later. Um the budget we'll also talk about a little bit about later tonight. Uh the idea with tonight's update there is about process
and about some of the drivers that are you know outside of our direct control in town hall uh so that we can all understand where we see some pressures going forward and as we try to nail down those final costs. In addition to that we've asked all the department heads as part of the process to work very hard on
um limiting their expenses uh for level service but also even a a a modest reduction in expenses where possible. Uh and as part of that process, uh we're also looking at service contracts, things from IT to legal to everything like the printers in in the building. Um
I just wanted to highlight that we're taking as broad a look as possible and and ask obviously you all but also anyone in the community if there's any expertise that they'd like to share with us as we're moving through that process. It's uh obviously very welcome for us. Um I want to thank the community development team. I know Marzy's here.
uh Christa and Tim are not but along with our consultant team and the DPW they worked with BBH uh and others on the Pine Street Pine Street project which hit an important milestone last night at the closing of the ZBA hearing. Uh it's been a real collaborative
process throughout where both sides have identified issues or concerns and we've worked to find um you know you know focused solutions that allow us to move forward with the ultimate goal of expanding affordable housing and I I really want to thank Mars and Christa specifically but the whole team uh worked quite a bit on that. So I wanted
to recognize their efforts. Similarly I want to make sure because it's been a while since we've all been here that we recognize the DPW at large. I think we've had three heavy duty snow events and a number of sanding events uh since we were last here together. They've been
doing a fantastic job not only uh in the thick of each storm uh working to clear the roads and and clear routes to the schools, but also in the days subsequent to that where they've worked to expand sidewalks and clear Humphrey and clear parking lots to to better allow for uh
circulation throughout the community. It's a significant effort and it's something that takes days at a time and so I want to make sure they're recognized. They've been out last night and today doing that very thing just on a little 4-in storm. So hopefully they'll get a little bit of a rest but I really want to recognize all of their
effort. Um and last but not least, I I talked about Shannon. I want to make sure we recognize Diane tonight. Uh Diane's been with you all longer than I have uh with her. Um but you know, I'd be remiss to to not call out your service and thank you. you. I know you're not going far going to the police
and fire to support the chiefs. Um, one of whom's with you this evening. Exactly. Um, but personally, I I really want to thank you for making my life as easy as possible over the last few months, even though I might not have done the same for you. Um, it's really been a pleasure to work with you, and it
was very very helpful with me starting to have someone that was so knowledgeable and open about supporting me. So, I wanted to thank you, and I know the the board likely shares that as well. So, not likely. They do share that. I shouldn't have shouldn't have put that qualifier in there.
>> Thank you, Diane. >> Yes. I would just like to say personally, Diane, thank you very much for all answering all the questions, never saying no, always saying I'll I'll find out if you didn't know. um you know, you were always a fixture um
whenever I popped in to see Nick or Gino and um always happy to take up any work and just appreciate um the work that you took on after you when you were supporting Gino, you took on a more expanded role. So, um
appreciate that uh you know, you did that with um professionalism and without skipping a beat. So, thank you very much. And that's that's the end of my report. >> Any questions? Happy to answer questions. >> I do have one question, but we're going
to be talking about um the budget process later on, but uh I do want at one point I do want to start talking about a couple of how do how are we going to talk about the capital plan, but I'll save that for one more. We're talking about the budget.
>> Okay. >> Okay. That was pretty much it. >> The one thing could I just add one thing before your question that I forgot on the HR and hiring side. We also made two conditional offers to uh police officers. Um I think we've already heard back on one. We anticipate hearing back on the other. Both positive, which will
leave us with one vacancy. >> Okay. Um, that's to I'm sure one of the follow-ups. This means we're going to start a new sort of cohort of uh applicants because that was distilled from the 25 or 30 that they had down to nine I think that did oral board and
three that I met with and two that we made conditional offers to. >> So if they accept conditional offers and then they I think what do they have to do? Pass. >> The next step is psychological and health and then >> from there we get them scheduled for the academy. And what would the what is the what CA Academy? What month would they
be? >> We're thinking mostly umies are running every June every month now. So probably June or July as soon as we can uh sorry as soon as we can get them
tested for the psychological medical. Sometimes that takes two to three weeks. Uh and then uh what we what we do is uh there has to be uh PT tests prior to the uh entrance in the academy and also all
the paperwork that we have is sent to the MPTC to enroll. So there was a couple weeks time delay. So like I said probably June or July. >> Have they taken a PT test here yet? No, we uh thanks to the union, we just nixed that
>> to make the process faster. >> So, we uh sorry if I uh didn't hear uh we did offer the uh two conditionals this week. >> So, we uh we're well on our way. >> So, there'll be one vacancy, right? >> Correct. >> As of right now. So, >> correct. >> And it part of the delay obviously just
to highlight because we talked about this with one of the candidates is the the training centers are regionally dispersed. So if Lynfield or Randolph or Northern Essex are not in the rotation for three months, then we would wait to get one that is regionally
geographically easy enough to get to. >> I'm sorry, David. I knew you had a question. I I totally forgot to >> No, no, no. All good. All good. Um No, that's that's great news about the police hiring. So, well done. Um Pine Street, so the hearing closed, so next
steps. Can you kind of can you kind of just sketch that out the next few weeks and does that mean that uh Benth is going to be in line for the for the funding rounds? >> Marzy can jump in, but where I believe we are is there's a 20-day appeal period that's open. Uh at the conclusion of
that, if there's not an appeal, then the decision is accepted and they would then be with I believe in the timeline to to make the funding round that they were hoping to be in all along. their their proposal is to submit an application to the executive office of housing and
livable communities um at the March 19 deadline and at the same time we will as you know we receive funding for the relocation of the culvert um so we will begin the process to seek a um an engineering firm to be able to design the culvert and and to start the project
funding is a two-year funding um we have actually reach re reached out to the department to seek additional funds um to address some of the waterline issues within the project Um and that's something that's being reviewed and we are hopeful to do this sim simultaneously and if not we'll seek
additional grant funding to do that work um probably by the end of this year if not early next year. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. at some point, can we get like um a a long-term ETA because we need to start actively putting together a plan on how
to really uh focus on getting any veteran who would qualify to really do an in-depth push to be able to get Swampscout residents into that lottery. >> Yeah. So that as part of the the process because they will be receiving state
funding, they do have to have a fair marketing uh plan for the project. Um and that will really outline all the all the the steps that individuals need to take. Um and they will do a marketing uh plan. They're required to advertise in local newspapers and to do additional
outreach. But we will definitely work with them to make sure that we bring the information to you. uh we work with um our senior center and then obviously with our veteran agents as well that they're aware of what the process should be and how does one submit an application to go through the lottery
process. >> We should also work back from that timeline to understand the steps that we need to do to ensure that our um veterans relocation project is >> right, >> you know, properly timed out in that timeline. making sure that we have
enough time to, you know, renovate, accommodate, move so that um they're not displaced. >> And I did re remember after our December town meeting that we took a vote here sometime in the fall saying that we were going to establish a certain specific
account um for the funds that came from the from Benet Brrith to go into a specific account. We were supposed to actually uh do something at a town meeting to and and uh
>> solidify that. So we should look back on that vote. >> Sure. >> May and look forward to what we need >> and look forward to the May time meeting. >> Right. Sure. >> Okay. All right.
That's okay. We will now um entertain public comment. So public comment, we will have any comment on items on the agenda that do not have a public hearing. If you have comment on a public hearing item, then that will take place during the hearing. But any other public
comment on non-aggenda or agenda items, um we're open to that commentary now. Limited three. >> Oh, three minutes. Thank you, Nick. Please, Brian. Um, for the for the record, my name is Brian Watson. Um, I know the select
board uh tonight and in the present generally is focused on a possible uh lease of the Hawthorne building and exploring the possibility of u acquiring some portion of the church parking lot. So, I know those two tasks are receiving the board's attention uh at the present.
Um, for future consideration, I want to briefly refer to the letter that I wrote to the select board a couple of weeks ago. Um, you may or may not yet have had a chance to read it. Um, and that's okay. Um, because it aims to convey some thoughts and observations that might be
useful to you when you start to consider larger development plans uh for the site. Um, didn't uh Diane tonight brought the copies with the uh the four site maps at the back. the email copy didn't have those. Um the letter is pretty self-explanatory. Um it's meant
to be both complimentary and complimentary in both senses of the word uh to the work of the Hawthorne committee. Um but it's also supplemental um in that it offers uh some cautions regarding our work. Um the main one is that certain areas of the discussion of
possible plans especially around the topics of building heights, building uses, building square footages and parking quantities could use further exploration and further discussion. Uh when you get to it um with a large committee of 12 people uh some of whom
were very invested in one plan or another uh it was not always possible for certain subjects to be fully and adequately explored. whe when the select board begins to evaluate possible site redevelopment plans whether uh whether
with or without uh additional land uh fuller fuller discussion could occur on on some of those topics at some point in the future uh if the select board is interested uh I'd be happy to participate in those discussions and I'd be happy to draw
various additional site plans uh as needed to study various alternatives uh especially if more land is added to the original site. It might also be useful and valuable to the board to explore various plan concepts on paper in live time in working sessions. Um, when the
time is appropriate, I hope you'll take a look at the thoughts in my letter and the and the attached diagrams and the uh approaches they they illustrate. Thank you. >> Thank you, Brian. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Any additional public comments?
Okay, seeing none, we will move on to new and old business. We have a public hearing on the decision and possible vote to consider the approval of application for multiple amendments of existing section 15 off- premises wine and malt beverage license to an off uh
to an off- premises all alcohol license for 44 Atlantic, Inc. doing business as Richdale Swampscott located at 444 Humphrey Street Swampscott 01907 including a change of manager officer and director and shareholders.
>> We did that last part already, right? >> We did the shareholders part. Yeah, I believe we only >> manager officers all that stuff. >> We did we I believe we did all except the change of license. Correct. >> Um >> so Madam Chair, is there anything new? I
do have uh Thank you, David. I do have one um opposition that came in that I will read into um record. So, this is uh from George Allen, Sarah
Speden, and Gregory Allen of 27 Bay View Avenue and says uh to the Swans Select Board, we oppose the application by 44 44 Atlantic, Inc. for the amendment of the existing section 15 off- premises wine and malt beverage license to an all
alcohol license at 44 Humphrey Street Richdale. We are an immediate abutter behind 44 Humphrey Street at 27 Bay Avenue, I'm sorry, Bay View Avenue. While I realize the financial value of an expanded alcohol license and that such licenses generate substantial revenue for a small business such as
this, the existing wine and beer license should be sufficient for this location. I do not oppose the existing license, but we have a new all alcohol liquor store down the street at 646 Humphrey across from Cindy's Pizza. There is no need for another all alcohol off-remise
license so close in a residential neighborhood. I encourage the select board to deny this application for an all alcohol license. Thank you. >> Hey, I just realized technicality. Do we need to open >> We need to open the public meeting. So, I need to read this again. >> Well, we could. >> Okay. >> Um, so you're right, Doug. Thank you for
that. Uh, so I need a motion to open the public hearing. >> So moved. Second. >> All in favor? >> I, uh, Diane, >> we never closed the public hearing before we continued. >> We had continued it to a date certain, which was not a meeting have.
>> So we readvertised this completely new with new notifications, neighbors, and everything >> to make sure that we had belen suspenders and could do an actual vote on what remain. >> We didn't need to. >> I think we could take it that your reading is now.
Uh so we have an email which we will uh put put into record into the minutes um from an opposing the um change in license. Um any additional questions, comments by the board? I know it's been a couple of weeks since we've met on
this, but >> are there any changes from the applicant? >> No changes. Oh, Chris. Yep. >> There he is. >> Oh, we cannot hear you, Chris. >> You're on mute. Probably
>> you're unmuted, but >> muted. Couldn't hear him. >> You can't hear me? >> Oh, there we are. There you are. >> I'm sorry. Um I think the only issue was as you said the uh the granting of the um uh follow
upgrade if you will. All of the other uh proposed modifications were approved in the December meeting. >> Did you get all that? >> We did. Thank you. Um, so I don't I don't know how any of the
other board members feel. I did a lot of thinking about this because um, you know, we had a a robust conversation about whether or not it was in our right to deny the license, you know, and I think uh, Mr. Dementoto pointed out that of course it is because it's coming
before us as a question. And while I agree with um his logic, I think for me, I looked towards sort of the facts that were available to us based on the case law for reasons for which we could deny
the applicant. And I I personally don't feel like any of those reasons exist here. I understand location and proximity to another license, but I I I feel like we're three square miles. were not that big anyways. There's a great
proximity to other licenses as well, you know. Um, and it it doesn't make sense to me to hold a license when we have a business owner who wants to use it. Um, so I I think generally that that's my two cents about
it, but happy to entertain a motion or entertain other comments about it. I'd be happy to uh move to approve the expansion of the license >> and I'll be happy to second it. >> Okay. So, all
>> and and I just want to acknowledge that, you know, it's not I think good points have been raised here about it. Um it's it's not quite as much of a slam dunk as it was initially to me. uh but still on balance uh for some of the reasons Katie said and you know more generally because
I am very familiar with the way the store is operated. I I am sure that uh the owners will take into consideration what this discussion has been about and uh I would hope that the construction of the the change and the layout will be
done in a way to be very sensitive to the considerations and concerns that people have had. Um but you know having said all that I do think it's appropriate. >> So we have a a motion in a second on um allowing for an amendment of the
existing off- premises wine and malt beverage license to an all alcohol license. So all those in favor >> I >> I opposed. >> No. No. >> Okay. So that passes. I just want to be on record that um my no
is strictly because I feel that it does not benefit the community having um another liquor store within a half a mile of each other. It has nothing to do with the people that own the market
whatsoever. It's just we are a very small community. Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay. Thank you guys for returning so many times. >> Um, >> thank you for listening. Thanking you for listening to us. >> Absolutely. Absolutely.
>> Thank you for your >> I know. I know. But my client will do their best to make you proud. >> Thank you. That we we know for certain uh most of us frequent that location and we know you will. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So I will now entertain a motion to
close the public hearing on the topic. >> So moved. Second. >> All in favor? I >> I >> All right. Thank you guys very much. And we now will move to a uh additional public hearing, a discussion and possible vote to consider the approval of an alteration of premise under the
current wine and malt license filed by 128 Humphrey Street Food Service doing business as Pomona located at 128 Humphrey Street, Swamcott. Uh so I will entertain a motion to open the public hearing. >> Moved. Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? I
>> I >> Okay, >> thank you. >> Thank you. Have a good night. Do we have >> Oscar Guerrero is actually the petitioner is on. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um so Pomona has assumed the
adjacent commercial space which um if you're familiar was once the hair salon um and expanded the restaurant uh to approximately 2,760 ft. They're proposing a bar with 10 bar seats, uh, two handicap accessible
restrooms, and a new dining area with 10 tables, which will include 30 seats. Um, so this would be a change in premise license from a malt beverage malt uh, yeah, a malt wine and beverage license
to a full liquor license uh, service. uh not to take away and then uh a ch an expansion of the licensed area from the current licensed area to um a full the adjoining area also
>> just clarification. >> Yes, >> this is only not a change in the in the type of liquor license, >> right? >> Oh, the letter. >> They already have a full liquor license. >> They have a liquor they have a full liquor license. You're saying?
>> No, no, no. They only have a um a beer and wine or a um >> wine and malt. That's it. >> Yes. Thank you. I'm not asking for anything else, are they? >> Well, the the letter Marcy >> Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. >> I'm just reading the vote. Uh, so that's how I was going.
>> Okay. So, the letter in the packet does say that um they're seeking approval for a change of premises and expansion to uh licensed area, but at the top it says uh sorry, upgrade from beer and wine to all alcohol. Is that not the case?
>> That was not Oscar is on to clarify because that was not not the case. >> Erase your hand if we can. >> Good evening. um >> members of the select board. So that is correct. We're only seeking to consider the approval of the alteration of
promises under the wine and malt beverage license. >> Okay. So you'll stay just wine and malt beverage just in a larger area. Correct. >> Yes, that's correct. >> Okay. Very good. Um any additional comments? Um Mr.
Guerrera? Uh yes. So we have integrated to the former as you explained earlier to the uh salon space into the restaurant and we have completed the installation of the service bar and um this will serve
as the improvement to guest circulation and service flow and we just wanted to mention that for the impact of the community if there's any concern. So the um proposed change will not result in increased noise and we are not seeking
to extend our operating hours or increase any um late night activities. Um so this will definitely not disrupt the surrounding um properties or neighborhood. Um the only intention for this is to enhance the uh guest experience and improve internal operations and create a better balance
throughout the restaurant and obviously to benefit the town of Swam. >> Thank you. Oscar, when are you looking at having this completed and open? >> Uh, we are in the final stages of uh the
uh completion. Um hopefully uh by next week. >> Whoa. Great. >> Any additional questions? And I assume um because right now there's not really
a bar per se in the current space. So you'll the construction of the new bar all your bartenders will be tip certified and go through all that protocol that the ABCC requires. So um >> yes so we are in compliance with all the
requirements for um as far as local state regulations uh and uh tip certification. We haven't had any uh we haven't defaulted at all and we do provide extensive training to all of our bartending the turn bartenders excuse me
and servers serving alcohol. Um so just to clarify we are in full compliance with all that. >> Very good. >> So what is the motion then the motion? >> Do you want to make the motion Mariel?
>> I'm not sure. is not so the yeah just to approve the alteration of premises >> under the >> under the current wine and malt beverages license basically just expanding the space. >> So but it do we have to have a motion to expand the space and a motion to expand
the liquor license for a larger space? We have to be so this just just you're voting on the alteration of premises meaning that uh by by your vote you are allowing uh liquor service to go into the adjacent space.
>> It's I I think it's the same thing we did for um >> G >> for G for uh because when they moved they expanded >> it's considered a an amendment to their current liquor license as an alteration of premises. >> Okay.
So that's Can I >> grab that one? That's >> all right. I move to approve the alteration of premises uh for Pomona under the current wine and lalt beverages license. >> Second. >> All uh any discussion everybody? Let's
go. Okay. All >> No, I wish them luck. >> Great. All in favor of um the motion. >> I I Very good. >> Can't wait to go check out the uh the new Pimono. >> See you next week, Oscar. Thank so much everyone. Have a great evening.
>> Thank you. You as well. And now we have uh I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing on the topic. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I very good. >> All right. Next is an update and discussion on the fiscal 2027 town
budget process. >> Should you put that slide back up now? Sorry about that. >> Just one page. >> Yeah, >> it's >> for now. >> This is not the budget. This is to make sure that we so when we came before you in the fall we had the projections which were rolling forward uh a small increase
on expense and salaries. uh we have gone through sort of the exercise to work with each department head on what level service looks like which was the direction I got from you all in December but also what a modest reduction we were asking for 5% where possible you know
obviously we're not able to cut we were not asking to cut 5% from um salary at this point it was just a question of looking at expense and seeing where we might have uh some more fat to trim and opportunities uh to move forward uh with some savings Um, so that's sort of where
we were. I just wanted to highlight tonight, and this is a question that I think you were starting to get to. We've submitted the SIP to the capital improvement committee who voted to move it forward to the finance committee. Uh, there were two outstanding items on there that we're trying to dial in
price. Uh, it is a force main study uh to begin the process of understanding what needs there may be other than the air release valves, which are actually part of the capital plan. Uh and then in addition to that for next year is the vacuum truck that DPW and water and sewer has been talking about for a
little bit. Uh it's not necessary for this year. We want to make sure that we get a a real price and that we're able to plan for it going forward if we decide to make that investment next year. Um do you want to ask questions about capital before I get into >> uh a couple of the questions I had on capital after looking at the list and
listening to a couple of the meetings. Um there were some items on there like a $100,000 vehicle. There's the vehicle items that were on there. I was questioning because I I really like to get a better understanding why we need to spend $100,000 for a vehicle that
just one person's going to be driving around um whereas can we scale back and get an electric vehicle um that's really a little bit more suited for one individual and um just where are some
other opportunities we have in capital because you know I constantly Look, I mean our for me the major driver for capital >> in the especially in the future is the middle school >> and making sure that we clear as much
possible and I'd like to see us go as lean as possible on that capital plan so that the funding and I was talking to Katie about this the fun majority of our funding is going towards our infrastructure and when I say infrastructure I mean our our buildings
and our water and our sewer lines. And so and getting away from things that if we can get away from I'm sure that some of these larger vehicles are nice to drive around in, but you know I I also think we're we're
with three square miles and it's not like we have to go that far. >> Mario, can you can you specify what what specifically you're you're you're referencing? >> Um I have to I'd have to get the copy. I don't have the copy of the capital thing. I'd have to I'll get that to you next week or Nick can send that out to
all of us the breakdown. >> So >> for a discussion on it. >> Yeah. >> So I had shared it with the liaison. I'm happy to share it with the entire group when we when we first transmitted it to the capital improvement committee because she's the liazison. I I think if
I can hazard a guess the one vehicle that's 90,000ish I believe is uh an electric vehicle for the chief uh to replace an older vehicle that is also uh it's a question that we asked to be completely frank both Patrick and I
about the need for something of that size you know is hybrid versus electric and it actually is used as part of the emergency management response to move equipment that we have within town as described to us. I am happy to get more information and share with the full
group. >> Y >> um but you know it was it it was one that stood out to us just to say you know let's talk through how we got this vehicle and >> why you want to elect and you know that's sort of we did ask some critical questions of it and happy to ask more and get more context for the full board.
Is that is the 90,000 just the vehicle or is it also like like I know at least for we've had this conversation with police cruisers before it's the purchase of the cruiser and then on top of that it's the technology in the cruiser. It is both in this case. You know, there's certainly opportunities when you talk
about fire specifically to see if there's funds and a need and a desire to have advanced life support and other things there that can, you know, I know in other communities that's something that is regularly added to, you know, command vehicles, >> not because they're responding all the time, but because it is very useful to
have. But I'm I'm happy to, you know, Patrick and I can sit down with the chief and just get more context as part of a future discussion like you're saying over the the full plan. So if there's other items, I'll circulate it to everyone what we shared with Danielle. Obviously, uh if there's other items, if you want to let us know in
advance by reaching out directly to me, we're happy to to gather that to make a future discussion here as useful as possible so that it's not you asking us questions that we have to go get more info from someone else. And this particular vehicle it was this on the
capital plan for a number of years. One question one and question two is the vehicle that this is replacing how what's the age uh of of that of that vehicle. But >> I'm going to turn to Patrick because off the top of my head I cannot answer those
fully. >> Okay. Yes. So, there's two vehicles in particular in the fire department that have been floating out there that are in need. And at least the deputy chief vehicle, which I believe is a 2006 Tahoe, that would be retired and the chief's vehicle as proposed would be
replaced and then the current chief's vehicle would be cycled down to the deputy chief. Um, so that's kind of the cadence, but it's it has been there has been a need identified on the plan previously to replace these vehicles. >> So, this so this isn't just popping up out of nowhere. >> No. Got it.
>> What's What's the age of the current chief's vehicle? Do you know? >> I believe that's a 2016 Ford Expedition, I think is what he shared with us. So, that would be cycled down and used further. >> Yeah. I just want to bring this up. I
want I just like to see us having a little bit more in-depth conversations about it. >> Sure. >> Do we want to go through everything in this year? I was planning the operating budget with expenses and salary. Do you want to do both at the next at the 25th? sit ban that and kind of clear the deck
of other items so we can focus on both. Does that work for the board? >> So, I think it makes sense to have the whole picture. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I mean, I think Marielen's point overall is is an important and a good one, right? I I have to say that it feels sometimes that
I know capital improvement is is scrutinizing these things, but they're in somewhat of a a bubble, right? I mean, you know, you can look at a lot of things and think, "Oh, that makes sense, right?" Um, but you know, when in a
larger context, uh, not only larger capital context, but larger operating context and with the middle school and our overall tax situation, you know, what what is the scrutiny level of just how needed is something right now? I think that's your broader point, right?
>> That is my broader point, >> right? Mhm. Especially with, you know, what it's looking like uh on the state level and on the federal level >> and, you know, what we're walking into. I'm just thinking of a a fiveyear, six year outlook on on
everything here. >> And I think we do I'll speak I I'll speak for myself. I think it's easy to fall into, oh well, we typically spend five, six, seven million dollars, whatever it is, in the capital budget, and that's just our norm. And so if it
fits into that, well then it must be kind of okay. And we kind of go along and then all of a sudden you realize, yeah, well there's debt service on this and that's actually impacting the budget and you know all of those things. So I think we just maybe need to be a little bit more scrutinizing.
>> Sure. Uh I will add we we had talked a little bit about when there are big chunks of debt coming off when we talk about something like the >> I think the point is well made Marielle that we should be thinking about each year and to Doug's point you know 5 million because it's always been 5
million doesn't need to be how we're operating. Um but the big chunks that are necessary for a school even with that exclusion are a little bit further down the road. It's not in the five-year plan. a little bit beyond that. >> So, I think we can be sure to have a
sense of that on the debt schedule of where we start to see >> larger opening and and more um opportunity, I guess. So, we'll make sure that we have that for the next meeting as well, Patrick, just to discuss in a little more detail. >> Patrick, in capital, what we used to
have would be for every request would be a description, a detailed description, and we just pop into the file and look at the detailed description. You don't do you have that anymore where each one is broken down to make it easier for you so that we're not asking you the same questions over and over?
>> Yeah. So, there's a shared drive that I have the committee the capital improvement committee set up with that has all of these submissions we collect from department heads and all the schedules. Um, something that the fincom asked for this year, which is I think the same thing you're asking for is to include that information on a master
schedule so you don't have to go to multiple places to find it. So that's actually something that the capital improvement committee um specifically Ryan is compiling so that there's a a little qualitative description of each project along with the the schedule with the cost, >> right?
>> Um so I'm connecting with him this week so he can get that closed out and turned over to the finance committee. So that'll be that can be shared with you all as well, I imagine. >> Great. Great. >> Okay. I think we also um when we had the first financial summit, we talked about
when we talked about the middle school, we talked about sort of scoping out um sort of a timeline um of a big project versus little projects and how, you know, whether or not we were going to sort of work this peace meal or like go forward and ask
for, you know, like windows, which we've heard about multiple town meetings in a which have never been done yet. >> Um, and like going forward in that regard rather than a full middle school project. And I think there was a an ask
um from Max and Jason to sort of give us, you know, either like a pros and cons or like a timeline to figure out like we could still go forward with Windows and get some funding and then we would within five years still be able to do a big project or whatever the sort of
what the hit would be if we we >> I think we I think we decided to go ahead with the windows, didn't we? >> Yeah. didn't I mean I thought that's what everybody had said but I just wanted in the current >> where yeah so >> the design >> we're finalizing the design so just signed the contract there was a lot of
back and forth because yeah related to liability not to get into too much detail >> um that design will be completed so that the the plan is to have a number a hard number at town meeting >> okay great >> to say we're appropriating it the work won't be done this summer because it'll lead time needed for windows >> for the windows
>> so it's appropriated at town meeting this spring work to be completed next So, summer of 27, not summer of 26, if that makes sense. >> Um, and that was and that was a question that was asked by the capital improvement committee as well, like why are we moving forward with this if we're
in out years, I think they have a number of like 100 million just as a placeholder to say there's a big project, whether it's peace meal, new, whatever. Um, and Max's contention is we are at so far beyond useful life for the windows that it's something that we need to move forward with
>> tabled it >> to maintain learning environment that makes sense. And so that's why we're continuing with the design now to >> with the hope that we have the hard number for this spring. >> But then we've also there there have also been requests for the entire to to
enter the MSBA program as well. So, do we have an update as to that where that stands? What you know what the timing is there? Has there been a final determination that's been made? >> I believe the superintendent would like to come before you all at the end of this month or next month to have that
discussion. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> So, he reached out to me to ask if um he could grab some time for us to have that conversation. So, it's imminent. And that that had been happening in conjunction with us saying like where where could it possibly fit knowing that it's going to be a debt exclusion
regardless but still like you don't want that type of that exclusion on top of what's already being carried. So when do big things like the high school really start falling off and that that's sort of >> part of the process that and the information that we want to provide to Jason so that any discussion here is informed
>> and it's all the same questions you're asking is information that Jason's already looking for. >> Excellent. Great. Okay. Um, so just to to get to this slide, the it's been a good discussion, but I I wanted to highlight this stuff. Um, these are those drivers at the bottom are items
that are significant that we are estimating and that we are in some cases uncertain of uh where we're going to land, in other cases not. So, I'm just going to run down them. Feel free to stop at any point for questions. GIC looked at getting out
number one. The timing is next. It's 27 is when our contract is up. Going into July of 27 would be when we would be able to do that. We are >> maybe Shannon can set us a reminder because we are terrible about remembering dates for the GIC. >> So, and also there's been seven of ours.
We can request once in our contract sort of a global level of information that would help if we had a consultant sit down with us and say here are the options whether it's trying to encourage people with some sort of buyout so that they go to a a spouse or partners and we
not share the savings we give them some of the savings we keep the majority of it uh they would work on something like that but they also work with communities that are within GIC to see which plan might be most advantageous um for for the community itself. So that request is happening to get all of that
information. 27 is when we would be able to get out. Uh that being said on in the budget that we talked about in the fall, we were carrying I believe 14.5% increase. We went at the absolute top end of where they have ever been historically so that we were not having a discussion now saying well I had it at
four and I was hopeful and it's actually much higher. where we will start to get some certainty. Tomorrow the board meets to talk about plan redesign and then on the 26th, unfortunately the day after our next meeting is when they vote on rates. Um I will just say,
you know, I won't say I'm optimistic, but I'm not as pessimistic as I was in the fall after having discussions with folks at the Mass Municipal Association conference and talking to other people that are involved in this process. I don't think that we'll be at that high end, but for the time being, we're going
to keep it there and then understand that's something that can if one of these other drivers comes higher than we anticipate, it will help us make up that difference or ultimately result in a savings in those estimates that we had in the fall. Um, collective bargaining, we're voting or ratifying rather the the
police contract this evening. Uh, >> I I have to I have a question on the GIC. >> Okay. Yeah. So, go ahead. um on the GIC, we were given estimates in February, March, but we didn't have final numbers until in May,
>> right? >> So, how is that going to line up? Is that the same? >> So, the estimates that like last year, as an example, the estimates in December were I think between 9 and 12 and it ended up being like 129 or >> came they came in higher just as we're
walking into >> that. Well, no, that number that number was becoming apparent >> in March and February. >> The final dial in will it will take longer, but we will have a very good idea of where the rates are and where we'll be >> after the vote. I would say early March
to give us and and them time to, you know, do some of the math around it. Okay. >> But they're voting on rates on uh February 26th. So, yes, the final number comes later. But we will have a much better idea if it's single digits, which would be amazing. then knowing that would be fantastic as opposed to
continuing to carry 14.5% and hoping that we come in under her. Um, >> so with GIC, when Doug and I were working on this to get out of GIC, we were informed at the last minute that we had to give them a letter of intent to withdraw from GIC by December.
It was December of two years ago. So, which means that we'd have to give them a letter by next December. But one thing that was really interesting is there were different opportunities available out available out there and for example Boston got out of GIC and went with Blue
Cross Blue Shield and different packets. So I just want to make sure we start to get ourselves prepared in advance for >> that's what I heard you saying were >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Literally requesting the information >> and >> you you referenced a potential
consultant or something to help with this. Yeah. >> Is that a decision that you made and are progressing on or is you need anyone or anything from us? >> I've spoken to them last fall right after I got here because I worked with them in Milton and then in the last >> three weeks been reaching out again because I want to get a sense of
anticipated cost because we would need to build it into >> any budget. So I don't have that yet. She wanted to talk a little bit about what the scope would look like for us. whether it's >> everything under the sun we want to look at like we want to leave we want to see about buying people out or whatever the
case is. Uh but they have sort of a a menu of things that they do for different communities that that will be the the kickoff discussion in sort of their pitch where it's a free opportunity for us to learn. Uh and then we'd have to figure out what the scope would be and look at actual contract language and all that.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. Great. So collective bargaining we still have fire. We still have library DPW, excuse me, expires at the end of this fiscal year and came in today to begin that reopening ground rules in a few weeks. So, short way of saying
there's a number of pieces that are still at play. We'll continue to have salary reserves, but also, you know, we would love to be moving towards settling these as well. Um, and as I mentioned, I thought you were trying to stop me from saying this, we'll be ratifying the police contract. So that gives us some certainty over the next three years uh
of what to anticipate there. Um but again it's an open piece in where that lands and where the contracts may land between now and the end of the year have the ability to influence how close we get to using any particular number and excess levy or not. So I wanted to
highlight that waste disposal. Um to be completely frank, when I saw Marblehead, I was super concerned as opposed to just being very concerned. Uh in talking a little bit more, um number one, what we're doing, the solid waste advisory
committee has in their possession right now or the working group a draft RFP that I'm asking them to make sure that they add. You know, I think Doug, you talked a little bit about services that are don't only be dollar driven. let's ask for the services we we may want and then we can make the decision on what we
want to pay for. They're making sure we included that and they're also tearing it apart to make sure we're not missing anything. So, we meet again tomorrow on that. Uh it's also with KP to look at the contract that's within the RFP just to make sure it's good for forum and um anticipating there'll be a couple changes, but we want to get that out as
soon as possible. I think when we think about things that are positive for us in this case, we already have the barrels, everyone's going um automated. All of the all the ser everyone that's gotten back to Juno and I um so we would still
be in at some point there would be a capital expense for the um recycling the barrel of whatever size we end up going with. However, we're partway there because the money has been spent over time on the barrels that already exist and everyone can use even that 35gallon
up to something much larger. It's sort of an arm that meets the size of the uh the tote. So, that it can be two different sizes for recycling versus trash. That's one benefit. Also, I I am thankful I was not a part of the discussions when we went to a barrel of
that size because it is small, but it also limits our tonnage. And so looking at other communities that might either have no barrel right now or they get one that's larger. Um that was a difficult process that the community has already gone through that it could ultimately benefit us in this process because our
total tonnage will be lower meaning the tipping you know comparatively speaking would be less than someone that had 5,000 tons a year instead of 3,300 which is roughly where we are. I'm not sure if I completely filed because if the arms can adjust to the smaller trash or the
recycling the big recycling ones, why is there a big capital expenditure? >> Because we don't have >> we don't have any recycling standard recycling barrels right now. >> It's a free-for-all. >> Okay. >> So, instead of >> we need we need that barrel. >> It's about standardizing it. So,
>> but if people already have one that's a big >> I'm not I cannot possibly answer this honestly. I I know where you're going and I'd love to have the answer for you, but I don't. >> Okay. >> The idea would be that similar to trash, it would be a standard barrel. Everyone has it. The truck is dialed in to be picking that up.
>> I got it. >> And dumping it overhead. >> Got it. >> Um, so that's waste disposal. We want to get that out as soon as possible, but there's some things that I think are at least generally positive. >> Property and liability insurance. We >> just additional question on waste. Um,
if everyone's going automated, what happens to blue bags and what happens to overflow waste? >> That is the blue bags are part of the conversations we've had in anticipation of drafting this. Uh, one vendor said, well, they'll just need to get a second barrel.
>> The second the second vendor said, put it on top. That it is standard practice for someone to just have to jump out if it drops off. >> But most of them, they're like they're doing this hundreds of times a day. they are gentle enough picking it up that something can sit on top and be dropped
in as long as it's the right color and it doesn't have prohibited materials and that type of thing. >> Great. >> So, it's part of the RFP to say that we would like that. And the one vendor who said they can't do it, >> we're we would push them in any negotiation to get them to be willing to do it.
>> Okay. We don't think that the usage of that works in a way that it makes sense to, you know, the answer being you need two barrels if you're getting one extra bag 10 times a year. It's like it just it doesn't make sense logically. So, we're that's something that we've
highlighted in the RFP. >> Yeah. >> Are there I'll stop just jumping ahead. Are there any other questions? >> No. Okay. >> Um, property and liability I think originally we were at 5%. Is that right, Patrick?
>> And the feedback we've gotten from our vendors, it's going to be closer to 9%. Um, as a conservative plan for uh so, you know, as with all of these, we're always willing to have conversations to make sure the coverage is appropriate, the vendors are right. Um, but it's
again one of these items that I wanted to highlight. Did someone have a question? Anyone? >> Is that going out to bid? We we went out to bid just recently. So we we changed brokers and the broker markets each of
our policies whether it's uh property coverage, various liability coverage, workers comp, um police and fire injury policies. They market those to carriers. So they're actually taking our risk profile mark marketing out to various carriers and coming back with the
results from that. So that's the exercise they're doing right now. Um, we have a meeting with them on the 17th, I believe, to go over the results of that. So, they gave us 9% as a a preliminary estimate. >> Did they say why? If we were planning on >> That's what I'm going to find out is
what >> that's what >> they're going to go over in our meeting. They have to talk to the all the carriers first. So, it's a little bit of a waiting game. >> Great. follow. >> Thinking of a question or you just being thoughtful?
>> Do you have a followup? >> No. >> Okay. >> Looks like you might. >> Um >> No, I'm just feeling sick. >> Well, let's see what happens on the 17th. >> You should ask Pat what it's like to listen to me all day talking about trash. >> You're not feeling great. Um, so Essex
Tech admission lottery. This is another one to highlight. It is a Essex Tech districtwide problem for everyone that's not a city. >> Um, because of a lawsuit, the admission process has changed. >> It used to involve interviews and a lot
of subjective decisions being made throughout the process. It is now a blind lottery and they have reallocated the number of spots by community. Uh the result of that is that you know we had I think 30 total students if I have my notes right
>> in there. Now our minimum target is 23 for next year and I think we have 39 applicants as of today. There's a lot. It sounds somewhat frightening and I've talked to other TAs and this is something that I
think at large will be addressed not for this admission cycle but there's going to be a lot of discussion going forward because at the end of the day it was sort of the city's limited their number of students and Marvel had one up to 39 where 23 and I think it's five for 28
and you know it's a it's a it's a big jump the one thing that with it being a lottery and the sort of barrier to entry being much lower now talking to Jason and Superintendent Lynfield and other places more people are applying than they did in the past because now it's
get an application and see what happens >> as opposed to get an an application and go through a process that requires in-person interviews recommendations and all these other things. So in short, we don't know how it will sort of shake out in the end, but it's something that, you know, to use my town Lynfield as an
example, it's driving part of a deficit when they had what they thought was a balanced budget uh earlier this calendar year. So, >> but correct me if I'm wrong, we only pay for who actually goes. Correct. >> Correct. It's an assessment. >> 23. So, we would obviously estimate assume all 23 are going, right?
>> And we would know that >> it can't ever be more than X, right? No. >> So, isn't it >> the only Hold on. The can't be more than X would be 39. >> The minimum is 23 for our target. >> Oh, that's the minimum. >> So, if another town exhausts all of
their spots >> and they have no more applicants and then they go back through the list and there's still 16 from Swanson that are still interested in going, >> uh, the best lottery number would be offered a spot. >> So, if everyone was was Yes. So, so what
does So, 23 for Swampscot really means nothing when it can be more than that. >> It's the It's the floor for how many they would like to have from Swanscott. >> That being said, with 39 applicants, if in reality there's only seven, they're not going to shake the tree to get 16 more. But, >> right, >> if the if the demand exists, it's 23 is
the floor. >> And then if they get through that and other communities are not hitting their number, then they would go back to people that are beyond the the 23. number 24 through 39 in town would be offered a spot if they're interested in going still. So to Mary Ellen's point, I
think why do we know this is a bad thing financially >> at this point? >> We don't we don't I'm highlighting I'm highlighting it could be >> there's uncertainty in it. >> Basically all of these are uncertainties that could take it from >> Well, they're all pretty much bad. >> We just don't know how bad
>> we don't know how bad or No. >> Okay. >> And so just as with GIC, the number could come in lower than we're carrying with this. It could be that in reality there were a lot of folks that were >> applying because it's easier this year and at the end of the day they decided they wanted to stay here that >> one of the pathways to innovation made
more sense than going to >> or Middleton every day you know so >> it's or Danvers wherever they are they're on the border somewhere >> they are you're right it is >> but but just for clarity sake there's 30 there's 30 swamps there's 30 >> currently >> there's 30 currently in the ninth grade class and
>> there's 30 no >> total total >> yeah I think last year was And the other years are single digits. >> That's about the average. >> Don't we have less kids wanting to go there >> than more? I thought that that the number was getting
>> sound like it this year. >> I mean, those are numbers that that apply, right? That doesn't necessarily mean everyone that applies wants to even go, >> right? It's similar to the I mean in some ways to the college process where there's a common application >> used to be very strange to get in everywhere
>> because it's easy and even though they're not interested necessarily in going to all of those places. So it's it's we're uncertain of how many of those 39 would go if they get off >> across the board. >> Okay. >> So with that good news >> is the second slide the good news?
>> No. No. >> Well I I do I do have a question though as we're talking about the budget process. I think you know so we're looking at before we had you know our we would do our budgets 2% plus new growth
etc and then that seemed to be a lot of pressure and we have 2.5% plus new growth I mean and then the third question third variable is what are we doing as far as what are our
thoughts as far as the unused levy I I mean, how are we going to really frame up this conversation? >> So, if I could just what I had asked in December was exactly that. And so, I asked if you wanted to come in at level funding, which would implicate less or
none. >> Mhm. >> And the answer seemed to be no. Do the two and two and a half plus 425. >> Right. >> And so, that's what we've been building out and it shows a deficit. And so, trying to refine that deficit to as hard a number as we can is where we are. Mhm.
>> And I wanted to highlight these are the we've done a lot of that with department heads. I'm sure you know my preference would be to do it a little different than last year. So give me direction that we need to continue to make cuts. I'll sit down with folks and come back. We can iterate that way. Um but I think
really any as of right now anything that we're coming to you at the end of the month with would use excess levy capacity. And from there, I'd be, you know, more than happy to take feedback from you all for Patrick and I to go back and change that. But that was the direction that we
had gotten back in December. >> So, just to remind everyone, >> sorry, I think in December we had said like, you know, basically if we went to level set funding, we would like >> it's draconian cuts to implicate, >> right? I mean, like there would be full
departments lost, I think. So like I don't I think it's got to be somewhere probably in between what is level set and I mean obviously we're looking now to say let's get it to its barest bones
under the 2 and a half plus 425 and then >> when we when we can't cut any further without getting to bone then we have the conversations about do we keep cutting or do we look at how much levy
>> right when you start to look at how much levy we we really have to be really clear on how we're we're working down that number and how long we can sustain that. So just want all the information out there >> and I I think part of this discussion
tonight is to highlight that that work started prior to my being here like you all certainly went through that in past years. These are things that are outside of our ability to cut. These are things that as a community we've decided what we would like for waste disposal. As a
community we make decisions about how we want to pay employees for collective bargaining and that's the priorities and the values of the community are what we're reflecting. And these are I wanted to highlight things that are big expenses that we we can put our finger on the scale in some spots, but they're
largely outside of the realm of the type of thing you're talking about where make sure we cut everything that we can to be as lean as possible on uh salary and expense, you know. >> Very good. >> Other questions.
I do just want to note that the charter requires us to vote on the pass the budget to right by the by the beginning of March. So I think we will be >> couple days late because of the timing of these meetings. >> Yep. >> Um >> for us to pass
>> for us to have to propose it March 1st, right? >> Which we will do. I I do think that >> Do we have to vote on it though? >> I Well, I think we are supposed to. >> Yeah. But I think historically it has been presented in February. You have >> no presented in February.
>> Right. And I I certainly think that as I've said several times, our goal going forward with a fully built finance staff and a full year under my belt, a full fiscal year that I'm here for the whole thing. We will all of this will happen earlier. We anticipate we've already talked about coming in August with the
first >> sort of iteration of what we can expect a very high level. turn that lemon to lemonade, which is to say that that is probably the closest to the charter we've been in recent history is getting that through at that timeline. And that's even with the deficits y'all have
faced with staffing. And so, um, while we're not quite up to snuff as the charter, we are getting better and we will continue to do that. That's the commentary I was going to make about that, acknowledging that because I know sort of being talked about.
>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Patrick. >> Thank you. >> Um, okay, we are moving on to the um MOA discussion between um the town of Swanska and the Mass Coalition of Police Local 417. And this is a discussion and
possible vote to confirm our executive session vote and ratify the collective bargaining agreement between the town of Swampscat and the Mass Coalition of Police Local 417 through June 30th, 2028. Um, this agreement was previously discussed in executive session on
January 26, 2026 under uh Mass General Law section 30A subsection 21 A3. Um, so we discussed in executive session. It's now required um that we discuss publicly in open session um the
memo of agreement between the town and the police union. Are you going to do a summary >> if you'd like to do it? >> I didn't know how you wanted to move forward. What would you >> A summary is good for public consumption? >> Sure. So, and I think the the highlights
that I'll touch on are, you know, from a wage standpoint, um the increases over the three years are 3%, 2%, and 3%. Uh in year two, there's also a post stipend uh that is added which is 2%. Um there's
a number of other housekeeping items and uh small changes, but I think the other large one that we want to highlight and it gets to the point I was just making about sort of the the value judgments that are made in the community. Uh we've added an equivalent of a full Quinn to
support an education incentive for our uh police officers. This will put us on par and I think largely make us more competitive in both retaining and recruiting uh new officers or transfer officers. Uh a lot of the folks uh that
we were seeing come in were coming getting some experience and moving to communities that offered this. Uh and so our hope is that it will certainly improve retention but also help with recruitment. Uh so we're you know looking forward to that bearing fruit. Uh in addition on the town side, there
were some changes made to the calculation of um vacation time which I think ultimately will give a lot more flexibility and control to the chief uh and future chiefs and making sure that we can do everything we can to manage overtime uh and better manage the department overall. So those are some of
the highlights from us. I'm happy to answer any questions there may there may be. that I think on the wage uh the stipen and the education incentive it's really about us doing what we can to make sure that uh we are recruiting and retaining the the best possible
officers. >> Thanks uh Mr. Town Administrator. Um you know we we literally the previous slide was was just talking about drivers of collective bargaining agreement as we're as we're talking about our fiscal year 27 process uh budget process. Um, and
you know, we're we're talking about contracts that are going to be in excess of in excess of our financial guidelines and our financial policies. So, how do we manage our budget? And and I'm not picking on the police contract at all. Um, I understand that there are other
considerations, but how do we, you know, how do we enter collective bargaining agreements that are outside of our financial guidelines without blowing up our our our budgets? How do how do we how do we do that? >> As I was suggesting, I think one of the opportunities
and and goals is to manage overtime better. Certainly, when we're talking about public safety contracts specifically, >> um historically, we have been carrying numbers that do not reflect what we're spending. We're on an annual basis making transfers to cover um to get to
sort of five-year average spends rather than, you know, budgeting appropriately from the beginning. I think ultimately the the goal here is to give the flexibility and control to the chief in a way that he can better manage that. And hopefully uh that will allow us to
manage something that is outside our fiscal guideline because it was a decision that was made that uh this type of investment in this contract made sense both from the the sort of what could be if we ended up in JMLC or somewhere else uh in
in sort of a mediation that is binding uh or if we were going to come to an agreement that allowed us to collectively bargain and though there were some hard discussions come to something that worked for both sides as best as it could at the end. >> Yeah, I think the commentary here is
certainly driven uh predominantly by, you know, when we talked about the teaching contract and we saw, you know, many towns and cities go on strike with their teachers and not come to an agreement and sort of where that left communities. Um, the same too can be said about the police contract and to
end up at JMLC and not be able to truly control a lot of that process as we can here in town when when all the stakeholders are at the table. There's a value to coming to an understanding and
agreement um with Swampscott truly at the value like the heart of that value versus JMLC which is just you know, the average of what everybody else is getting brought down onto Swam Scout. So, I know um you know, KP talked about
that a lot and I think um it's something that we really had to take into consideration at sort of a riskreward conversation. I I also think that we've heard the um police union we've we've
seen the chief here talk about hiring more than any other topic I have think in my entire tenure on the board and that is because we cannot retain talent and a lot of that relates to um not just
wage but also training um and people will start here and then they'll hop somewhere else and and that just creates this cycle of always trying to find talent and that causes overtime. It causes constrination with the union. It
causes us to be like why are we continue to have this question? Why can't we retain talent? Hopefully this isn't an investment in that retention. >> And um you know we can't fully control that. Uh people want to go then they if we're not the right fit or they're not the right fit for us then that's fine.
But I I hope that this moves us in the right direction to be less shortsighted about that on the go forward. >> No un understood. And I and just from my perspective, I'm I'm supportive of this. I I just think it's important that we're
conveying that message to the public and John Q and Jane Q taxpayer. >> Yep. Absolutely. So hopefully the current spend, you know, I'm not going to jump and say it'll be a savings, but it will definitely be an investment in, you know, the future operations and the
idea of investing in our um police force to stay our police force for a long period of time and not having to go through these cycles of hiring. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, I just like to thank uh you, Nick, and you know, the support we have from KP and the police union. I mean, I
wasn't, you know, around for the prior negotiation, but uh given all the kind of uh it seemed to be anxiety about the these negotiations and how they would go and what would happen and all that stuff, I mean, I I feel like we got to a
relatively reasonable position in a relatively uh relatively speedy manner. Um so, I I appreciate that from all sides. And uh with that, I'd make a motion to authorize the chair of the town administrator to execute the agreement um with the Mass Coalition
Police Local 47. >> Second. >> So I think you also need to confirm the previous ex. >> Yes. Yes. >> Oh, so maybe we'll take them if you wouldn't mind making that one first and >> I I wouldn't mind. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> I should. Yes. Um, so I'd move to vote to confirm previous executive session vote and ratify the collective bargaining agreement between the town of Swamcott and Massachusetts Coalition of Police Local 417 through June 30th, 2028.
>> A second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I I also move to vote to authorize the chair, the town minister to execute the agreement and related documents. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> I thank you very much.
>> Thank you. >> Okay, we will move on to the last agenda item under new and old business, the discussion and possible vote on the Hawthorne reuse RFP recommendation. I just want to acknowledge and
appreciate David for sitting on the um evaluation committee. Appreciate you spending that extra time in this process, David. Thank you for that, >> David. And if I could just share the process and then we can turn it over to you all to have the discussion that you'd like. Uh we received the two
responses that we uh had the teams come in spend approximately an hour with uh the evaluation group. The evaluation group was myself, Rich Beldachi, Marzy Alaska, um Max Casper, and David. And so we had
a 20 or 30 minute presentation from each roughly uh with conversation interspersed at different times but certainly Q&A following that. Um and then met to discuss the rankings um on
Tuesday, right? No, on Monday afternoon. Um and the the one-hour presentations were done a week ago tonight. So we had a little bit of time over the weekend to each think about it. We had a discussion about it and as you can see um from the scores uh that are presented up here on
the screen uh they were relatively close very close and in both cases uh certainly opportunities for things to make them home runs because it's 93 and 91 out of 175. So there were opportunities that we saw for improvement in each. But it was a a
lively discussion and um I'm happy to answer questions related to our work at all. Um obviously David can also answer those as we're all on the same involved in the same discussions. >> So my first question is I see the scores
looks like the first one is Max but there are not names on any of the others. Is there a way to figure out who's is whose or >> I I can go back I can figure that out. I if I look at them I can probably tell you three of them. Um while while we're
doing that school that gotcha never mind >> some summary of what >> these are these proposals >> if you yeah I mean I'm I'm happy to >> the public has no idea at this point really >> right it's a procurement that ultimately
you all are making the determination on what's most advantageous >> right >> um I I will give a thumbnail and David if you want to jump in for each of them. >> Sure. Um, limited time only is an activation that is I think most akin to sort of the setup of a a beer hall. It's
as described to us anyway. Um, it would be food and beverage. Uh, the food would be at least in the beginning term uh served out of uh likely food trucks or some sort of mobile concession that would be outside um in the parking lot
was the idea as described to us. uh there would be improvements made inside uh limited in scope to make sure that they could sort of get up and running as soon as possible and limit the resources that would be spent um on an initial startup and then it would it's an opportunity to see you know what would
work and what what wouldn't. They talked about entertainment. They talked about um community events, using it throughout the day for uh different groups so that it's not only used as a place to come and have a beer and a bite to eat, but it could be someplace that a senior group meets at or a community group that wants to meet at during the day. One of
the highlights of their proposal for me anyway was when they discussed the idea of, you know, having a night where it's Swanson Scott youth basketball. And so they're actually partnering with community nonprofits to drive um you know sort of customers in business but
at the same time then returning that by giving them a portion of um any proceeds and that type of thing. So it's a it's sort of the softer touch to get started and and see what works and refine this the the plan as they go. Uh but it's food and beverage service with other
opportunities to expand that um as they see what works and what doesn't with the idea that they want to be activating as soon as the snow is cleared basically so that you have a a spring and summer runway to really build up interest and build a habit of coming down to to the
location. Um >> yeah, I mean yeah their their goal was their goal was really to open you know within the month of May or June. uh you know as as Nick had stated uh it was going to be uh certainly a lighter a lighter touch uh less capital investment
on the internal uh on the inside of the building uh more use of um the outside uh there were going to be you know outdoor outdoor events which would be complimentary uh to the outdoor events that are held at town hall uh or you
know or with uh with the town. And one of the uh one of the highlights for me was really just the fact that they were going to try a number of things. So similar to what the recreation department's doing at Clark where they're trying, you know, a a considerable amount of
programming. Some of it may work, some of it may not. These guys really had that same idea uh you know, and pulling together uh reversible low-risk improvements on the inside of the building um to get it up and running quickly. uh they don't want to have, you
know, a regulatory maze of trying to, you know, pull together a uh you know, a brand new kitchen or or make extensive renovations to a to a building. They understand that this is going to be a short-term 30-month uh lease and um and they want to get going uh and they want
to get going quickly and they're willing to try uh a number of things and really uh invest in the community and support a number of local causes. Um so I I thought it was a a really interesting um proposal >> and Can you just touch upon the finances
so that for folks who don't have all the information we have? >> Sure. >> Could understand. >> Sure. So, they were talking about um they were talking about making an investment that was going to be somewhere between what? 100 and $200,000. >> I think 200 was the number they started. >> Yeah. Yeah. And they were going to pay
they were going to pay the town um rent of approximately $30,000 >> over the course of the term. >> Yeah. Over the course of the term. And uh and there was also going to be um some type of percentage that was going to go to uh to local uh local causes,
local organizations. Um that was not that was not specified. We did not receive a uh you know a draft profit and loss or any type of um financials uh from these from these folks. They did say that they were going to put their own money in and they were
going to raise um raise money for from um from local residents. Um but you know to that effect we we didn't have any additional any additional financial uh information on which to uh to base our decision.
>> And obviously uh when we when we sent the RFP we um like the lease is triple net. They're >> triple net. They're paying utilities for utilities and but we would obviously still carry insurance. >> Yes. >> Just as we did with Anthony.
>> Just as we did. But it would be I assume the insurance is less if the building is occupied in any use versus vacant. >> Is that >> Yeah. I think the the one question that has remained is you know a a community having an operating restaurant is not
part of the normal risk profile of any >> um any municipal insurance policy. >> Yeah. So >> necessarily a writer something we need >> right so that that would be the question is >> what we had >> is we had that before okay >> but finalizing if that cost would change at all if it's going to be continued as
opposed to I think >> they were well aware at the time that it was a year-to-year lease and this would be the same thing where we're saying it's a short-term >> 30-month use where would we be on that but that yes we would have our insurance they would have theirs we'd be additionally insured
and it's triple net plus utilities and we are we go to great pains in there about the lack of capital investment that we will be making. Um, so that was discussed while we were all at the table just to sort of remind both parties that it's really asis, you know.
>> Yep. Right. >> And if there were a significant failure in the building during the lease, I assume we draft in such a way to say if they did not want to make the investment, they could be out. If we didn't want to make the investment, we could be out, right? >> I believe so. I I want to confirm how that's written.
>> Okay. And there's there's ways out for both. Yes. >> Okay. >> And I just and I just want to state, you know, >> just from the conversation that we had with the uh you know, with with the limited time only group, the name limited time only, they they understand
that they're only going to be uh they're only going to be uh short-term tenants of the property. Um short-term stewards of the property. It's it's in their name and it's it's it's fully um it's fully understood. >> Yeah. I would just highlight to underscore
that I called that out for the other proposal and this was second so I called it out for them as well. I think in both cases they're like, "Oh, in a perfect world everything goes great." And we're like, "No, it's 30 months. It's over. We have no authorization. That's it." And I
actually started the Q&A with that with both groups just to really >> wet blanket to say like, "Can everyone acknowledge that it says that regardless of what you drafted and everyone acknowledged it, but it's an important point, >> but we just hadn't got second to the second. >> I know it's important point to score that."
>> Mike's response was got it. This is I see what's in there. Yes. And limited time only is our name. Yeah. >> All right. Do you want to uh go into the second proposal? Give a little >> doing the second one. >> Sure. Uh so the second proposal is the
Swampscott Center for the Arts. It's a multi- >> performing arts. >> Performing arts. I'm sorry. Um I I wrote it long wrong on my slide. That was why I was >> I mis misqued there. Um they are looking to do a number of things with this
property and it's um I would I think one of the scoring sheets said multi- venue. I think that's one of the best ways to to describe what they came to us with. Um it's the activation of what was the dining room as a you know a space for
live music and other entertainment. Um again there is investment on the inside. It's much greater in this case. They're talking about the kitchen. They're talking about using the um what was the fish market as a Maria's gourmet and um
grab the bagel. Um there's an area that they were discussing using as a way to tell the history of Swampscott and the entrance. There were a lot of different Whereas Mike I gateway nautical museum and gift shop. >> Thank you. I'm not I'm sorry I'm not
reading word for word. Um, so it it's the idea that there's going to be >> the clay fund. >> It's the idea that there would be multiple different sources of revenue obviously for them and activation so that it is not only used in the evening, it's not only used in the morning that there's throughout the day different
uses that are activating the space and drawing um traffic to the area uh or to the building. Um >> Mhm. >> the the term in their case um is a payment of 300,000 over the course of
the the term of the lease. Uh which you know if we're doing it month by month it would be if it in a 30-month lease 10 a month. So but there's also significant investment on the inside um both in the fish market side in the kitchen uh and
in the dining room. Am I missing anything so far? How much of an investment are they to upgrade? >> What was the number that they >> they they warranted that they were willing to spend a million dollars, Danielle? >> Wow. >> And to to underline
>> already supposedly. >> Well, we'll get to that. >> Skimmed that part. I think >> David has feedback for that part. >> Please give the feedback. So, you know, as I as I had mentioned um previously about the uh the first proposal where we didn't have a uh a
profit and loss or anything. Um we we didn't have any we didn't have any information um with this proposal as well. Uh the profit and loss uh was you know it was sign up signed here and we'll we'll we'll give you some
information. Um, you know, the uh the fact that the respondents have secured a a million-doll financing commitment from a local financial institution in support of the redevelopment and activation of the Swampscott Center for the Performing Arts would lead me to conclude as a banker that there has to be a profit and
loss statement that would be evaluated. Um, I don't believe right now since there's not an approval from the select board or there uh or or plans. I don't see how there could possibly be a commitment. There's probably a term
sheet that may a very soft term sheet that may have been uh issued here. Um, you know, but you know, just furthermore, you know, we're we're we're talking about, you know, when we look at this evaluation criteria, we're talking about seven different aspects or we're
looking at the vision for the proposed property. We're talking about relative relevant experience. Um, willingness to work within the town. Um, but the most important thing for me is the ability to execute on the proposed vision. And looking at just just looking at numbers,
restaurants are typically pretty low margin types business type of businesses. So if you're talking about a million-doll buildout and you're talking about a $300,000 payment to the town, I mean, restaurants typically run on just 10% margin, let's say. So, just for
these guys to break to break even, I mean, they're having to do $13 million of of sales um in a 30-month period. Um I I I just to me I don't see that as being as being uh feasible. And you
know, that severely hinders the ability to execute on the proposed vision which is outlined >> um in the proposal. At least that's how at least that's that's how I'm reading it. What was the conversation in your meetings with them >> on that?
>> Well, in the proposal, their proposal, the first sentence uh says to the town of Swampski, on behalf of Johnny Ray and his executive team, we are pleased to submit the proposal for the adaptive reuse and long-term operation of the Hawthorne property as the Swampscott
Center for the Performing Arts. So, even though in the meeting they did indicate that they understand that it's a it's a 30-month lease, um literally in the first sentence they're mentioning long-term operation. Um they didn't give
us any any any financials to be able to substantiate um their investment >> um whatsoever, which is just as a banker is is concerning. Uh, and on another on
what page one, two, three, four, we talk about a collaborative long-term civic asset. I mean, I I I don't know if they're talking about them being there long term, of this property being there long term, but there's multiple mentions of
this being long-term. um which just gives me pause as somebody who sat on that on you know on that committee >> to the question of the discussion that I did want to say just so it didn't get
buried I started the discussion by saying >> says longterm in a few different places >> yes >> for us this is a 30 a decision on the next 30 months that's it >> we don't I don't we don't have to worry we don't have to worry about I mean it's
>> it's we don't have to worry about term it's 30 it's 30 months >> correct right so >> and that that I just want to make sure everyone in the room is on the same page that's all I'm saying >> it's 30 months it's 30 months >> yes that is true Maryland but I think when we talk about feasibility on execution of what the proposal is
it looks like >> I mean putting in 1.3 million for 30 months >> I mean >> I I don't I mean I'm not financial wiz but that why would anybody do that if it's >> and they are organizing as a nonprofit
as well which not it doesn't it actually adds >> in our view I think as a group to the complexity of what was >> but you know they're working with >> that really baffles me >> right and so I I just want to highlight
that in both cases the >> there's a lot of questions >> there was a der of financial information there were things that we would have liked to have had for sure from both of them >> um and we didn't and so this was based on what was written and and what was
said in the room. >> So the way the way I see it is that we would ideally tonight be kind of authorizing someone to kind of continue discussions with one one correct or the other right subject to you know
understanding a lot more. Um, so to me, I kind of put a lot of those, you know, those questions as the next step of really understanding the proposal. Uh, you know, to David's point, you'd have to dig in a lot more, uh, particularly
with this one. Um, you the Center for the Performing Arts and and it is, it's clear, I mean, we're only going to be doing this for 30 months, so that risk is on them, right? >> We're going to have a contract. they
would owe us $300,000. That would be their their risk, >> right? Um the one thing that we didn't say is that this is being proposed by someone who clearly knows how to run these things. I
mean, in Marblehead, right, >> uh runs Warwick, Beacon, you know, these are not people that are just kind of thinking, "Oh, hey, I've never done this before." Like, you know, let me, you know, give it a whirl. Right? So, you know, I think I think that's, you know,
important to me. Um, >> so the the piece that I'm just stuck on and that is definitely important, but this isn't, you know, something in Marblehead that's going to be there for perpetuity. That's not the intent. That's not the message we were kind of
given, I don't feel, from the special town meeting. I think it was pretty clear 30 months at most, right? I mean, I think that was we had to really we wanted it to be longer. We had to come down to 30 months. People weren't
comfortable temporary, right? I just on face value looking at Swampscott Center for the Arts doesn't scream temporary to me. Um, and the the amounts we're throwing out, I can't I just can't wrap my head around why somebody would want to sink in 1.3
million for 30 months and and not have an intention beyond 30 months that, you know, I mean, anyone can tell you, okay, 30 months, sure, but are they really looking to be here for a longer time or have this, you know, change? I I'm just
really cognizant of what it took to get us to even this point. Yeah, >> you know, with with the short leash that I felt like the town, you know, kind of has us on, right? And rightfully so. That was that's what people want and, you know, I don't want to take that for
granted and just say, "Okay, but this person's going to give us the most money, but you know, have a different intent than what people really want us to do with this." >> So, I just want to be clear, what we're asking of you all is to choose the most advantageous proposal to the town.
I appreciate the value judgments you're talking about, but as an RFP process, it's the most advantageous proposal, which does give you some wiggle room. >> Sure. >> But I just want to highlight in once you choose the one that you would like us there within the RFP and within the draft contract, it's 30 days to sign or
we can walk or they can walk, you know, like >> so again, the the cadence is still there of us trying to do something quickly regardless of who you choose. So I just wanted to highlight that that's in what they accepted in responding to the RFP. >> I understand time is of the essence. However,
>> two things. One, >> like this is a public process and not like we are just now discussing publicly what the elements of these both are. >> And so I really think in order to get true public feedback, if we are going to get any, >> we should not vote on this tonight. We
should >> put it on the next agenda and sort of live in it a little bit. let the public understand what's available to us under these proposals. And I I mean I also don't see why we can't ask these questions that we have tonight
>> right >> now to both of the propo I mean I guess they don't have to answer in the process right they could say well until we become the favored choice we don't have to answer that >> so which what questions are we talking >> for the financial pieces like if
you know P&Ls or I mean if there are if they're making representations that there are >> funds being >> I think we just need to make sure we're asking the same thing both from both. Sure. Measuring them >> just more >> I can I can make sure >> the the one concern I have is it's not
part of the IRFP response. I don't know that we can just be taking other data after the fact. >> Okay. >> We requested this. They both were deficient. If you look at the scoring, >> right? >> They had low numbers in those. >> Sure. Okay. All right. Well, >> I just have a because to me it's it's
Sorry, Marilyn. I just want to sort of >> cross this tea really quick. the lack of the financing plan and the financial capacity really speak to a lot of other of the evaluation criteria which is like if you're like how do I feel about execution if I don't even see
>> the finances behind the execution and like I I love living on a want and a prayer but that's not going to work for the best interest of the town of Swamp Scott. I understand that. I I want to be sure and what we can do is take this feedback and make certain with procurement experts that we can request
it. And if the answer is we can't then >> I would highlight that there's actually three options and David and I discussed this at one point. >> It's one of them. One, two, or nothing. >> Or nothing. Right. Right. Right. >> We're not required to do anything. So there's still the opportunity to say ton of uncertainty. Not the right move.
>> Yeah. Right. >> Yep. that from my standpoint. I just want to say budgeting I would not love to be carrying this building for an extended period without someone going in. So >> y >> just want to put that plug in. >> And in your comments though Katie I to
me they apply to both even though the amounts are very different. >> Oh absolutely. you know on the one hand you know to David's point was kind of worked in both directions right like uh in terms of these people have run
businesses like this >> maybe based on that that's how they're getting some more degree of assurance from a bank that they actually can get this financing because it's not a one-off that they're just starting to do this right there's a track record that they could be using with a bank to
justify this further investment Right? So, it's a bigger amount, but they have more wherewithal potentially to actually justify that. On the other hand, the other folks are talking about, well, I'm going to pull $100,000 either out of my pocket or I'm going to crowdsource it or I'm going to get some donations. Um, you
know, so if you're actually, you know, there there's there's higher risk, higher reward theoretically in a financial perspective with one and I hear your point, Danielle, you know, and um they clearly want it to be long term. Let's just that's there's no doubt about that, right?
>> But I don't care, right? You know, in a way like it's 30 months like you can you can wish whatever you want, but this is a shortterm gig. >> You know, maybe you show something that's very useful to us and it's a learning exercise either way, but it's 30 months.
>> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yep. So um so I think yeah it'd be good to you know understand from both perspectives more detail about really where their financing is coming from. And then I guess the other question I have and I don't know if you guys had it uh in discussion about this
>> with the Swampscott Center for the Performing Arts >> and since it is going to be would be more of an investment when are they thinking that they actually would be >> live with anything? Right. I I think in both cases part of it is a hope and a
dream because when they were in there they were seeing the space and the view and you know one was talk it was I can't remember who but was talking about like the view and the sunset and how we can get people down there for that. That's fantastic. It is true. It's a beautiful
space. Sure. when you're looking out at the ocean, >> when you turn back into the building, it's expensive and it's going to take a long time to get >> right, >> depending on how much investment to get that work done. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> So, >> you know, I I think >> limited time only was talking very specifically about wanting to make sure
that they're activated as soon as possible, as soon as it's nice enough to be out and about so that again people sort of build a habit and they can work with local nonprofits to get groups coming. Um, at the same time, Swap Swans Setter for the Performing Arts was saying they
wanted to get up and running as soon as possible, too, and we'll get in there and take a look at it. They had, you know, someone that has done sort of HVAC and systems work talking about what it might take. So, I think both of them don't have the full answer on when they
can. They would both like to be up and running this spring. >> Okay. So then I would say the second question is really feasibility and what literally is their plan to get to >> right what is happening. >> Okay. >> Even if you know one of them said I realize I'm not going to be able to
operate fully you know even if it's uh limited time only. I'm not going to be able to operate indoors. I know I will have this active programming happening >> right >> June 1st. Will Swampscott Center for the Performing Arts do that too or you know how will they
>> I honestly don't know how I honestly don't know how we'll be able to ask that within the structure of procurement but I will ask >> you can have followon questions >> well I think they're also listening tonight and they might want to just let you know that anyway >> but you can you can't have follow-on questions that are the same for both biders.
>> We're at the point that we've made a recommendation and we're asking you to take action and and choose the most advantageous. I understand you're asking for more information. I just want to make sure we stay within the bounds of what we can. >> But if we're but if we're not taking a vote, >> what recommendation are you presenting? >> So I I think
>> they're rank their >> Just hold on. If I could the other the rankings are public they're out. People can see them. Number one. >> Number two, if we get too far down asking questions that they were either not in the RFP, it material materially changes who may have responded.
>> Number one. And that's a problem because someone else could have seen it and said, "Oh, if I could have gone in and done X, Y, and Z differently or answered this qu there's a there is an there's a point at which I'm concerned that we're crossing a line." I just want to make sure we don't do that. >> I I don't think it's a bad idea to ask
questions. I don't think it's a bad idea to get more info. I just want to make sure we're doing it the right way. >> Great. Me, too. >> I just have one question because the way I the way I'm looking at it, it says, "Respondent has secured a million dollars in financing commitment from a local financial institute. Um, it doesn't say that they're investing a
million dollars into the building. It says that they have a million dollar commitment which would cover their cost of goods, their operational. It doesn't really lead me to believe that they're looking at putting in a million dollar investment that wouldn't have a return a
return within 30 months. So, you know, when I listen to the budget and listen to this constraints on us and then I look at appendix C here, 300,000 versus 30
is pretty significant. And I understand that we don't have financials really from either of them, which I can understand because these are become I would think that somebody would be concerned about putting out
financials from their personal or their or their business not knowing if they have this they have this secured it would make them you know make them vulnerable. >> How would it make them vulnerable? This is this is a public process.
And this doesn't have anything to do with their with their other business. This has to do with this business. >> Um I think that because you have people who don't even have a a limited they don't have an LLC set up. So if both of these people decided to
quickly put up an LLC, the LLC is going to show zero as far as their financial background. I think what you're looking for here is really do they have a financial commitment? Do they have a bank that's willing to give them a line of credit? >> Um,
>> well, we're just looking for a pro fora, Mary Ellen. We're looking and any bank is going to require some type of >> Well, we don't have that from We don't have that from either. Right. >> Correct. >> Right. >> Correct. >> Right. Right. >> Well, this but they I think they both at least one of them says they definitely
are ready to do that. They just want an NDA or something. Right. >> And that's not possible. >> We would not enter into, >> right? Even >> it's a public record. >> It's a public record. >> We get it. It's a public record. >> Yes. There's no NDA. >> And we Marzie made that clear in advance
of the interview process. >> Let them both know, but it was specifically the one that called out the NDA. I asked her to just let them know that's not a subject of negotiation. That's just a no because it is a public record. When we get it, it's public process. And I think to both the points
that David and Mary Allen are making, these are I think groups and organizations that maybe are not as familiar and this was true of others that pulled the RFP and did not respond that may not be familiar with a public procurement. And there is certainly
it's I would say exposure of information is something that people may not be used to when they're going to a new business proposal like this. It's completely understandable from both sides of that argument. Well, regardless of the what questions we can ask when we'll look into that, I I do
still think it's important that this is a true public process and regardless of whether people come next time or not to publicly have opinions, we need to offer it as an option. So, um my suggestion would be that we put this on the agenda
for the next meeting and um we can, you know, re-evaluate. If we have some additional information, great. If even if we don't the public will have heard at least the sort of uh broad strokes of each of the proposals and and would have time. I think both of the proposal
answers are going to be available on the website probably at this point >> and so the public could access them there and then if they had further questions they could reach out in the meantime. And just to clarify something you said earlier, Nick, you weren't necessarily saying just because the
uh evaluation committee came up with a higher score for one, we're not required to. >> You are not. >> It's important that we're talking about it as the most advantageous to the community. Though when you make that determination, >> that's that's the decision you're
making. The language matters. >> Advantageous to the community. most advantageous. >> Most advantageous, >> which is all-encompassing and not just one >> correct >> area. >> Exactly. >> I also think that we could have we could probably do these rankings three times and we make it three different
>> I mean it shows how close it was that with five people it was two points apart, you know? So, >> I think here is either could be advantageous, >> right? We need a better understanding on the advantageousness of each proposal.
>> Maybe in order to differentiate one over the other. If we can get it, we will try and assuming we'll make it any question can be asked. The the two that I have noted are sort of time to execution. >> Yeah. >> And then a proforma or some deeper level
of financial information that gives a level of comfort to the folks making the decision that you can execute on that >> correct >> plan that you brought before us. >> Yeah. I mean, for me, just the financials are just a catalyst for execution, right? Like, >> I think I'm not I I don't need to do a
deep dive into their P&L. I just want to make sure that that what they're saying they could execute on in a reasonable amount of time from the point they say they're going to start executing. >> I just want to make sure I was asking the right things and we'll work with >> the procurement folks at KP and the IG's
office to make sure we ask the right questions. >> Yeah. Okay, great. >> I just I I think we're It's a It's a really good thing that we do have two applicants. >> Me, too. >> And you know, these are these are two app these are two applicants that show that they're going to add quite a bit to
the community. >> Yeah. >> So, >> good for us. >> Good for us. And thank you to the applicants because they're taking a risk too to come in. I mean, we >> had to convince town meeting that this was even a process worth going down. and to have two choices. Um
I won't say it's shocking because that makes us feel like we didn't know it was going to happen, but it is shocking, right? Because I don't know that I don't know that um you know, we hoped and we thought it could, but um it's nice to see. >> Maybe we could have a limited time only Swam Center for
>> join forces. >> That's not a bad idea. >> Um all right, moving on. David, that's >> Yeah, David, thank you again for the time you put into this and um Nick and town staff. >> Um now we will move on to the consent
agenda. Um we have uh on the consent agenda we have early voting hours um which would like the clerk would like to hold early inerson voting at town hall on Tuesday um April 21st, Thursday, April 23rd, Friday, April 24th from 8:00
a.m. to 5:00 p.m. and Wednesday, April 22nd from 8:00 a.m. to 700 p.m. I think this has been relatively aligned with what we've done in recent years. Yep. Um, we're also looking to uh have two
appointments. Well, uh, sorry, the conservation commission is looking to take a current member of Kong and step them from a full-time member to an alternate and would like to have Jerry Falco appointed as a full-time member in that place. I have discussed um with the
chair uh as the liaison and um and putting that forward as a recommendation. Um, as you all know, Kongcom is a very specific uh committee in town and has very specific uh requirements and attributes um to be
fulfilled. Um and uh they've gone through uh the process and have made the recommendation and therefore I stand in full support of that recommendation. Um and then discussion and possible vote to uh approve Ankor Food Pantry and the minutes for December 10th, December
17th, January 7th, and January 21st. >> Um can you uh I'd like you to remove the 21st. >> Okay. >> Put it on for next >> remove them because we have discussion or remove them just till next meeting. >> Just till next meeting. >> Okay. So the consent agenda as amended would
be all but the minutes for >> and madam chair just regarding Anchor food pantry have has the um has the use and occupancy agreement come in front of >> it has not come before us yet? >> We have a plan for that >> at the
>> anchor food pantry use and occupancy. >> Okay. >> I can I'll run it down. >> Sorry I don't have the answer for you right now. I don't know where it is. >> Okay. I just it it it should just be a one-year extension. And I think we've extended it three or four times at this point. It should just be changing the
date from >> 25 to 26. >> Yep. >> So >> we will make sure it's the topic of >> they did ask the consent agenda. >> Thank you. >> Meeting >> motion to approve the consent agenda as as amended by Mary Ellen removing the
12126 uh minutes. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> Okay. Select board time. Does anybody have >> um water sewer infrastructure will be um
presenting at our next um at our next meeting on the 25th. So they will be uh they will be coming. Um >> topic is goals, right? >> Yep. Yep. Goals. So um feel free to reach out to to Kelly and coordinate.
She'll she'll be there along with um she may have another member or two of her of her committee to join her. >> Very good. >> And will we be having names of additional people to put on that committee at the next meeting?
>> We like you want to have them suggest alternates. Is that what you're speaking of? >> Yes. I mean we have people who have applied. We have alternates. We've been sitting with a committee that has opportunity to have more people on there
and we don't and I just I'd like to get more people as alternates on that committee. I I'd like to hear what the goals are uh from the chair
um first >> and take that into consideration and thinking about subsequent members >> alternate >> alternate members whatever >> they're fully they're full they're full staff now there are two alternates right
now available to be seated I think uh in in myself and speaking to the chair. There was questions about goals and how the board viewed that committee going forward, how the committee viewed itself going forward. And uh my invitation was
that they come before us and have that conversation before we put that other item on the agenda. So, I will stick to that um conversation that I had with the chair um unless there's another member who would like to see it on the agenda
and I would like to suggest that it be put on at either the next agenda or post that goal discussion so that we can give some space >> for the chair and the committee to to get their arms around that. >> So,
anything additional for select board time? Um, I would just like to thank Nate Biststrom, Joe Doulette, and Mr. Moritzky for broadcasting the meeting tonight. Thank
you. Okay. Just I I do just want to acknowledge again, I know we did this during um the town administrator's time, but the ZBA and the work that was done with Benet um to get the veterans housing project um to the point that
it's at. Uh there was a lot of good conversation um and I think got us to a point um where I hope that everybody feels comfortable. Um and then hopefully we will have a go forward um for understanding what that process looks
like from this point um moving to fruition. Um so I want to just thank all the parties for that time and energy for that um and that moving into its next chapter and I will entertain a motion to return. >> So moved.
>> Second. All in favor? I I Yes. >> Thank you everyone.