Okay, good evening. I'll call the meeting to order. This is select board regular session uh and executive session on April 15th. Uh we are being recorded and please rise for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay, we will begin with the town administrator's report. >> Good evening.
>> Being recorded. I already said it was being recorded, but yes, it is doubly being recorded. >> Good evening. Uh just have a few updates. Uh first, I wanted to uh report on the trash RFP. We received two proposals that meet the criteria that we
laid out. We've developed a list of questions to follow up for each of them. Uh the team that's making the first cut included town staff, uh Gino, myself, um folks from the solid waste advisory committee, Marielleen as their leaison. It was a good discussion. and we went for almost two and a half hours the
other day uh just going through each proposal making sure that we had questions that could be either applied to both or needed to be clarified with one or the other. Um we hope to get those answers back the end of this week, beginning of next. Uh and as of right now, I think tenatively we have Tuesday on the books to have another internal
meeting from there. We'll be able to get a little more detail, but you can anticipate that we will be coming back to you with more information shortly. Uh quick turnaround is the goal and I think the discussion we had the other day was really useful. Um, on the Hawthorne lease, uh, it is something that I know we spoke about last week. We are still
working with KP to integrate the discussions we've had into a lease. So, I anticipate we'd be back before you on the 29th with that for your your final review. I had touched base with the proponents um, today to just explain sort of where we were in time and and they understand where we are, but again,
agreement in principle. It's a question of taking the draft lease that was part of the RFP and then sort of adding in all the other necessary language uh to make a full lease and it also sort of represents the discussions we've had um on the margins. No, no huge changes, but we'll walk through them individually
with you all on the 29th in advance in advance of that discussion as well. Um on the Archer Street project, I wanted to give an update here because I know members of the board have heard and some may have visited as well. I had the opportunity on was it Monday the solid waste advisory Monday afternoon um where
I stepped out the end at the end of solid waste advisory to meet with a few of the neighbors walked the site with them. Uh it was a really good opportunity to hear the concerns directly as opposed to the emails and phone calls that that I've had um and to sort of engage in a broad discussion about it. In addition, uh the
conservation commission, just for everyone's benefit, is has noticed a meeting for the 28th where this is one of the items that they will be going over. Uh and that is a virtual meeting will be available obviously online for folks to attend. Construction work is paused at the very least until after the
concom decision. So there will be no other uh construction done at this time uh as we work through this effort to verify information and and be able to move forward. Um, also last week I had the opportunity to meet with the board of health for the first time uh in one of their meetings because they're
generally in conflict with this meeting. Uh, they had moved to Thursday. So I had the opportunity to sit down with them. We talked a lot about regionalization um, load balancing as we move forward with a different staffing model compared to the past few years going back to 21 or 22 when we went to two full-time. Uh, and it was a really good discussion. Um,
and we also had even George Allen there as well who will be an incoming member. So it was sort of like having four members there for the one evening and I plan to attend again in the near f in the near future. I talked to the chair Argie Cooper uh a couple times since and so the idea is that we will look at regionalization opportunities and see
where the the load balancing um might be beneficial to to find partners in communities nearby. Uh on the finance committee and uh capital improvement committee, Patrick and I since last Wednesday have met with them twice, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. We've had
some really good discussions. Uh it feels like everyone's moving forward towards a a conclusion for where we should land for this year. Um so it's been, you know, a fruitful discussion all around. We had a discussion on uh the capital improvement plan as well as the budget and both are on the agenda
later tonight as a sort of wide openen discussion and entertaining any motions there may be so we can fill you in more. And the things that we've talked about there that I just want to highlight again uh places where there's some flux in the numbers um on healthcare changes due to enrollment could could have a
either positive or negative effect as we get to the end of this month and understand uh what the census looks like. The Essex Tech assessment was preliminary. So that may change up or down again as well. We're hoping to get more clarity as we move forward. Um the
property and liability insurance we are expecting very close to town meeting as we had last year or even shortly thereafter but the number that we have in there I believe is a 9% increase which was their very conservative estimate. So we're hopeful that that will be even above where we need but we'll continue to let you know. And then
there's obviously the opportunity for state assessments and aid to change both positively and negatively. We're basing everything on the governor's budget. Uh the house budget was actually announced today. We have not yet updated anything to reflect it. The biggest change there was that there was a slight increase in
chapter 70 funding uh per student. So, it could have a meaningful impact if that survives through the Senate process and also with the governor, but we're going to have to wait and see where that is. That's a another one of those places that were in flux. And then the trash contract is obviously something that's currently a placeholder that as we get
to the end of the month, we will have more information on where we anticipate landing there. Um, but you know, those are all things that I wanted to highlight. Looking forward to town meeting. I also just want to let you know we met with the outgoing and incoming moderator, the town clerk and myself um to sort of get the benefit of
Mike's experience and make sure that we were pairing everything we could so that Ryan uh is successful. So, we look forward to continuing those discussions. >> Subject to the election. >> Subject to the election with the only candidate running. I I mean, >> well, he's the only one running. So,
>> stranger things have happened. Thank you. >> No, no, I still >> Are you launching a sticker campaign? >> No, no, no. I'm just Okay. very happy for Mr. Hail to be running, but you know, >> Sure. With with the the likely incoming, is that better? I apologize. Um, and
also worked with Katie, uh, our clerk, to make sure that we sort of have everything in line is that it will be her first town meeting here. Uh, and also potentially a brand new moderator unless something >> unforeseen happens. Is that a better couching for you? >> Trying to >> Okay, I know. Um, I think we're both
doing that. >> Yeah, sure. Um and then you know for tonight uh we have the the warrant as part of the discussion. So that's the only other sort of town meeting related thing. Look forward to any further discussion we may engage in. And with that I'm happy to answer any questions you all may have.
>> I had asked you a question uh last week I guess it was about the status of the major climate leader grant. I don't know if you had an opportunity to find out what the status was on that. So the idea currently as the capital plan sits is
that we would seek um climate leader technical assistance in the year ahead to do design for what would ultimately be the canopy here. The future project would be the significant funding towards the canopy construction in and out year. Is there more information that you would
like beyond that? >> I guess that's it. Um, sounds like a little bit of a development, but maybe I'm not tracking it properly. So, okay. Okay. I have a question on the Archer on the Archer
Street situation. Like, how long is that going to take to figure out or like what's what's the whole process there? Is the neighborhood engaged? Because we did get a lot of emails. So I anyone who emailed that an email came to me and now
that I've actually met with the Smiths I have spoken either via email or on the phone or in person with everyone who I heard from or who was forwarded to me by you all. >> Uh the first step will be D has kicked out the or kicked back the question around what was properly delineated to
the concom which is the normal process >> right >> uh that that will begin on the 28th. I'm uncertain of what they will decide then. And I think we'll have to wait and see, but certainly our next meeting currently scheduled for the 29th or the 6th immediately after that. And ei on either one of those dates, I'm happy to provide
a more concrete schedule. The step that we're waiting for right now is stop the construction work while we get through uh the concom uh effort. And if there is, you know, an opportunity to move forward from there, we will communicate with you all where we stand as well as well as the neighbors, obviously, anyone
who's reached out. Uh, and then I know that Frank and his wife have sort of helped to organize the immediate neighborhood and they offered to make sure that anything we get to them will also be shared uh with their immediate neighbors. >> Okay,
>> good. Anything else? >> Okay, we will Thank you very much, Nick. We'll move on to public comment. Um, so as a reminder, public comment is limited to three minutes. uh you'll come up to the mic, state your name and your address, please. If you have a public
comment online, please raise your hand and we will take you in order. Uh we'll try to alternate uh between online and in person. Um I do have some public comments that were sent to me via email that I will read post everybody in the
room. Um and I did have one individual reach out to go first. So please uh Suzanne uh right if you wouldn't mind. guests at my dining room table. >> Also, Nick is going to keep time this evening for sake of these.
>> So, at like 30 seconds, I'll give you a little >> hopefully it will not take that long. I'm just I wouldn't be here if um >> State your name and your >> Oh, sorry. Suzanne Wright. Uh 11 Hardy. Oh, no. Not anymore. Six Humphrey Terrace. I forget. I say all the time. I drive
there all the time. Um, I wouldn't be here um I wouldn't be here except for hearing or reading in the tides that um Miss Fletcher's apology um was maybe less than in less than
genuine. I don't I don't even know if that's really the word, but mostly it was followed by a disclaimer that said everyone violates the code of conduct. Like that makes it okay. But but I um I know this was said about this board,
but I took a lot of um a lot of offense to the comment because I've been a volunteer in this town for 30 years. Um most recently on the school committee for 12 years and um I know that my board and other volunteers in this town take
the code of conduct as an oath. In all my 30 years of volunteering with this town, I have never ever once overstepped or abused my power. And um and it's it's hurtful to hear that that everyone does
that when that is in fact not true. That whole independent investigation um that the select board approved shows Miss Fletcher annoying ignoring procedures, lacking professionalism and respectfulness, and acting less than honesty. And as a school committee member, I've been watching Miss Fletcher
for years, watching her strongarmming, disrespecting, and disrespect disrupting our school personnel. Her attempts at got you accusations and attacks have been disingenuous. They've been harmful to school employees, and in complete disregard for the collaborative efforts that we've all tried between town
boards. I've witnessed the strain she's put on our paid school professionals and the school committee over which she has no responsibility or authority. I've seen the discord and the retention issues at town hall that are direct result of Miss Fletcher's interference and at times personal vendettas.
Finally, I've watched Marielen Fletcher bully the finance committee and other committees and boards, including the select board, and create turmo turmoil, which has rendered this board less effective than than our town deserves and should be demanding. But
as a school committee member, I didn't need the findings of this report to know this about um Miss Fletcher's unacceptable behavior. And and I argue that you didn't either. We've all known about this and we should have been having this discussion much sooner because we have been having it behind
closed doors and and we should have been having it publicly and and shame on all of us. But at the very minimum, Miss Fletcher should be censored. and but really I believe Miss Fletcher should resign and um I hope that you can join me in in calls for her to resign.
Thanks. Um we will take the next public comment from online. Mr. Deto has his hand up. So if you could allow him to unmute. >> Just state your name, address, and you have three minutes. Mr. Deto, >> let me know when it starts. You can go
ahead, sir. >> Thank you. uh Bill Mento, 108 Paradise Road and uh I would like to address something that appeared in the sponsor Tides today
uh with an interview with a member of the select board Danielle Lennon where uh she said your board never violates any any of these code of conducts and I want point out she violated the code of
conduct in the article when she is quoted and we know the ties is on a vendetta of its own but she quoted uh Danielle as saying this guy didn't even live in Swans this is all complete
nonsense how did uh the tides before say from a non-resident unless she knew knew that he was a non-resident from the public record. The redacted
report doesn't say where he lives. There's no mention of where he lives. The only way anyone in the town knows he is a non-resident now is because Danielle released something that was in executive session. That's a violation of the code
of conduct. David and Doug are famous for their February 8th letter right after the LDA with on the Veterans Project. What did they do? They wrote a letter to Ben Bre asking them to use
their termination right and cancel the contract right after and and a clear violation. So much so that it panic to people from Ben and Mary Ellen the Benjamin had a right to them and say
don't worry about it it's the law and it can it's fine now how is the violation I use of use of their authority they sign the letter as Doug Thompson Swanson select board
David swans select board now that leaves Hey. >> Oh, you've gone. >> Sorry. You >> go ahead. >> It doesn't say I'm muted.
>> Nope. Now you're muted. There you go. Go ahead, Mr. Bento. >> Thank you. You know, in the Congress they say I want my time back. >> It's yours. >> Thank you. Uh Katie, uh when you sent that message in that telephone
conversation on November 28th, according to the redacted >> 30 seconds >> report, >> you have 30 seconds, Mr. Dimento. >> Thank you very much. According to that, you sent that had a conversation with David. You sent the report. The code of
conduct clearly says you ought to send that to the town administrator and he is the investigator and no one should have anyone other say but him. But you broke the code of conduct by doing that. In addition, all of this stuff, the release
of the unre of the redacted report is also a violation because the code of conduct says it shall remain an executive matter. I don't care if Mary Allen and half the town wants it public. It says it'll remain in executive session.
>> Mr. >> Thank you very much. And uh >> I will watch the rest of the inquisition. Thank you. >> Thank you. Additional public comment,
please. Good evening. Uh my name is Glenn Pastor, 49 Suffach. Um member of the school committee. I come here tonight not to comment on any specific accusations, but rather to relay experiences which I believe are very
revealing as to the conduct of Mitz Fletcher. I will preface my remarks by saying that the information I bring forth 100% accurate and supported by documentation which I'm happy to provide which I think
you will see a pattern of overstepping and the lack of respect for protocol which apparently is the root of the reason why we're here this evening to start many times at least three that I found
via email and at least two that I found via video. We have asked the school department that any questions regarding the budget or any information needed from the school
department, any and all requests for information must go through the respective chairs of the select board and the finance committee. After those requests requests, excuse me, are received, the chairs would send an email to the superintendent and myself or whoever is
the chair of the school committee regarding the needed material. We are happy to to fulfill any requests handled in this manner as time allows. We've been very clear. We do that because employees of the school department need
to work. That's their job. Their job is not to answer questions 24/7. So I'm going to talk about three recent issues that Miss Fletcher has overstepped and
has broken protocol. Firstly, on Wednesday, February 4th in the morning, Diane Markeesy, who at that time was the executive assistant to the town administrator and select board, sent an email to
superintendent, the superintendent's executive assistant, and to Cheryl Stella. Hi, Marielleen Fletcher is asking for a copy of the proposed school budget and presentation in anticipation of tomorrow's pre in anticipation of tomorrow's
presentation. Can you email that to me, please? Thank you. It's a clear violation of the rules that we have all agreed to play with. I then took that email and I sent it to the board. >> 30 seconds. >> Sorry. >> 30 seconds. >> Okay. Thank you. I sent that to the
board chair. Lastly, and most shockingly, this past Saturday, after everything that happened last Tuesday, Miss Fletcher sent an email to Superintendent Calishman requesting some sort of
information about an endowment. This is 4 days after the last Tuesday event. It's also not the first time that Miss Fletcher has sent an email only to the superintendent. Thank you. >> Thank you. Appreciate it, Glenn.
We have another hand raised online. Uh, Miss Dillo, if you could please allow her to unmute her mic. >> Uh, M. Chill, you should be able to unmute. >> I do too. >> There you go. >> Okay. You get me? Okay. Thank you. Um,
I'm Mary D. and I am a former member of the school committee. I'm also a Tommy member from U precinct 4. Uh I would just like to respond um you know there's lots of video that can be brought up um in this
matter and lots of different matters because we are fortunate to have a good recording uh fashion ability. Uh last April 10th uh 2025, two weeks before the town election, um
Miss Wright, who I have worked with for many years for the schools, um I I was sort of shocked, had always had respect for Miss Wright. Um, and I'm shocked to
tune in to a school committee meeting and watch uh a meeting that from my perspective and somebody who studied group behavior and group work for as a professional person training. Um, I
watched a a her race an issue of wanting to set I want to uh get a vote of no confidence. This is last April and I watched the rest of the school committee uh with Mr. Pastor uh the chair
orchestrating to my view as a citizen um getting comment from each of the school committee members. Um, I was stunned that a committee, one committee was actually commenting on another committee in that manner. And in 30 years of
living here, and I've been very involved, I've really not seen that kind of behavior. So, there are many instances of people crossing boundaries here. Uh, I'm not going to comment on the current situation with what what did
not happen with Maryanne um Fletcher, but I I to say that u for Miss Wright to say that she has never violated in all of her time. I have again have the most respect for her. She was somebody who
has done tireless work for this town and um so much so when we were opening the new high school volunteered to be the person who received all the deliveries to the new school and I I heartfel it
heart it it it's I'm just mystified by why this is is the vend the thesis with which this is being pursued. It it it strikes me um as wrong. Um and I think
that people >> have to um really search their souls here about what we're doing. Um these are all these are these are ways of
deflecting um attention away from things that we really need to be paying attention to. And um thank you very much. I wasn't going to speak tonight, but I I I just didn't I couldn't let that just pass by without a comment
being made. Thank you. >> Please approach the mic. >> Hi. Can you hear me? No. >> No. >> Can you hear me now? >> Okay. Um, good evening. My name is Danielle Strauss and I live at 15 Duke
Street here in Swamcot. I've been a resident of this town for 35 years and a town meeting member for over 25 years. My husband, Matt, served on the select board for six years, including two as chair, and I recently retired after 20 years as recreation director. I share
this background because with experience comes insight. I'd like to briefly speak on two topics this evening. First, during my time as the recreation director, I worked under three town administrators and alongside many select board members. Over the years, I have
occasionally seen board members overstep their roles. In some cases, this was addressed. One member was even censured, while in others, it was handled privately or at times not addressed at all. I respectfully ask this board and future boards remain mindful of their
boundaries of their role and remember that the town administrator is the individual entrusted with the day-to-day operations of the town. My second point is to thank and so this is
completely different topic is to thank David Gishman and Doug Thompson for their years of service. I believe this is their last meeting. Um, I'd especially like to thank David and recognize him. Before David joined the select board, the town administrator
instructed me to meet with him and work with him directly regarding community events. At that time, he brought forward ideas such as Bentwater at the beach event and Swamptoberfest. Initiatives that he helped envision and I was proud to bring help bring to life.
Once he became a select board member and liaison to recreation, David continued to work closely with my department. He attended many events with his family, stayed to help when needed, and consistently offered encouragement and thoughtful ideas. He played a role in shaping events like Humphrey Street
block party, helped secure sponsors for several programs, including the Fourth of July celebration, and encouraged me to advocate for our new movie screen. David was not only supportive of the department but also supportive of me personally.
So in closing, thank you David for your dedication to our community, for your partnership with recreation, and for your support over the years because there were many times I needed support because of some of the things that go on
here. So I thank you. >> Thank you, Danielle. Hi there. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> All right. I'm Jackie Camelingo, one Belleview Road former program coordinator for Swampscott Recreation. I'm here because the findings of an investigation were made public last week
and they confirm what some of us have experienced firsthand. The investigation found sufficient credible evidence that select board member Fletcher violated the code of conduct by directing town staff and inserting herself into a police matter. That is not a misunderstanding. That is
an abuse of position. Using the authority of an elected role to influence actions that should be handled through proper channels. And for some of us, this misuse of power is not new. During my time working in the recck department, I received direct texts and phone calls from Miss Fletcher asking me
to carry out tasks. These were not casual suggestions. These were requests made with the weight of her position behind them. As a new employee at the time, that created real pressure. I was being asked to respond to an elected official while also being told by my director that doing so would violate the
proper chain of command. This is what misuse of power looks like. not always loud or obvious, but putting employees in positions where they feel they have to choose between doing their job correctly and responding to authority. When I raised that concern to Miss Fletcher, I was dismissed. When I sought
clarity from another board member as to the proper chain of command, I was told the chain of command was nothing more than an example of the former TA's totalitarian control. As the organizer of the farmers market, I had an interaction uh where Miss Fletcher pointed her finger at me and accused me of screwing with her
livelihood because I approved another dog treat vendor to sell at the market that season. That was not a policy discussion. That was an attempt to use power and intimidation to influence a decision that was well within my role. For context, the market regularly
includes multiple vendors offering similar products. That's how a community market works. That market, that moment marked a clear shift. I went from being, in her words, her favorite employee in town to someone who felt increasingly targeted. After
that, it often felt like the work I had done was being undone, not through process, but through influence. One example of this is the inclusion sports program. When I explained that the rec department was excited to host this inclusive program at the new elementary school, Miss Fletcher dismissed the program as being no different from any
other sports program in town. The following week, we were informed by the school that we could no longer use that space due to complicated arrangements. Again, I won't speculate beyond the facts, but when decisions shift immediately after an elected official expresses opposition, it raises real and
valid concerns about how power is being used behind the scenes. >> 30 seconds. >> After I was told I would not be the rec director, I approached Miss Fletcher and asked a simple question. What changed? I referenced the messages she had sent me 18 months earlier. Her response was anything but professional. Immediately,
she raised her voice, threw her hands in the air, and hollered, "This is harassment. Do you even work here anymore, I was still employed by the town for another two weeks after that." This happened in town hall in front of others. Employees were uncomfortable enough to leave the area. Nothing came of it. What is most concerning is that
these are not isolated moments. They reflect a pattern, one where position is used to pressure, to bypass process, and to avoid accountability. I later learned that everything my director had told me about the chain of command was clearly outlined in the code of conduct. code this board upheld and one that the collector herself had not
signed up until late last summer. The investig investigation now confirms what these experime Thank you. >> Good evening. uh Miguel Contreres 46 Buenav Vista. Um statements that I'll make are views expressed personally by
me, not by the committee or as a member of the school committee. Um but I'm here to speak regarding the recent investigation and the finding concerning the code of conduct violated by Mary Ellen. Uh public service is built on the foundation of trust and transparency.
And when trust is broken through documented actions, not hearsay, but verifiable conduct, we must address it. The investigation reports outlines a troubling progression of events that moves past a simple misunderstanding and
into the realm of intentional misconduct. There's the dishonesty around conduct uh contact. So the member stated that they did not email this citizen in question
and they only later confirmed that they did once they had an attorney confirm for them. So at that point you would kind of assume that that is a misunderstanding. Uh the next part is that
it moved from a misunderstanding into a clear lass of judgment where ill intent could be seen and the use of authority to intimidate as the member actively went to the police station and entered the building and spoke with staff there.
After that initial incident as well, the member reached out to the citizen again uh to follow up with them. So these are not assumptions or interpretations of he said she said but they are documented actions that reflect a pattern of
behavior unbecoming of this board. Tonight the board is considering a motion for censure. If passed Mary Ellen will be stripped of her ability to serve as chair or vice chair will be removed from her subcommittees and will no longer act as
a liaison for any other board. Functionally, you will be a lame duck member, unable to effectively represent the interests of our towns and perform the duties of which you are elected. You will have to check your emails and confirm that you are getting the
communications and read them. So, for the sake of the board's integrity and to allow this town to move forward without the constant cloud of misconduct, having other boards wonder if you're being honest and transparent or do they need
to have a lawyer present to make sure that honesty and transparency is there. I would respectfully ask that you resign from your seat. And if you choose not to, I strongly urge the remaining board members to vote in favor of Asensure to uphold the standards of our code of
conduct and to protect themselves from any legal liability. Thank you. >> There has been no hands raised. Yep. So yes, I am alternating. Liz Smith, precinct 3, town meeting member. I want to address an issue that
goes directly to the integrity of this board and the public trust. This is not a matter of allegation or speculation. An investigation has already established the facts. A member of the Swampscott Select Board unilaterally directed a town employee, a police lieutenant to investigate a complaint against another
member of the board without any vote, any authorization, and outside the chain of command. That alone is a serious breach of governance and abuse of authority. That same investigation also found that this member stated she was out to get a fellow select board member, the very individual who is the subject
of that complaint. That is not just inappropriate, it reflects bias and prejudgment. But there is a second issue. This matter was discussed in executive session under the complaint exemption. But the attorney general has made clear that executive session must be narrowly
limited to the complaint itself. Once this board reviewed the investigative report and began considering what action to take, that became public business and it should have been discussed in open session. Apparently, the select board decided in executive session that a mere apology would be sufficient to rectify
the situation. We the people of Swampscott had a right to hear that discussion and the reasoning that led to that decision. Transparency is not optional. It is the foundation of public trust. An apology is not accountability. It does not reflect the seriousness of
the conduct. Censure is necessary because this investigation is just one instance that follows years of violation of the code of conduct by this select board member. Behavior that is wellknown, frequently discussed, and has never been adequately or publicly dealt with until now. An appropriate next step
beyond censure would be an investigation of this pattern of inappropriate behavior by this select board member. Tonight you have an opportunity to respond appropriately. Censure is on your agenda and this is exactly what censure is for. Rules matter and no
select board member is above them. If standards are not enforced when they are clearly violated, they are not standards at all. The public depends on unbiased and professional behavior by its elected chief executive board. I urge you to vote for Censure.
Katie Arrington, 40 Roy Street. Marielle Ellen Fletcher uses her status and influence as a select board member to congel people into doing what she wants. If you dare to disagree or you don't cave to her demands, she harasses you both by the sheer number of phone calls,
texts, and emails. During those interactions, she will relentlessly call you names. This was the case back in April of 2024 when I ran for select board. We were supposed to have a second debate hosted by the Daily Item. I was unable to attend due to my child's
medical emergency. Select board member Fletcher referred to me in these countless interactions, relentless interactions, as a puppet, stupid, and a waste of a person. It is time for the drama to
stop. She needs real consequences for her actions. The investigation recommends censuring Miss Fletcher through public and or written notice that the official has violated the code of conduct. We should follow through with that recommendation. I urge you to
vote to censure select board member Fletcher. Thank you. Thank >> Whoops. >> Thank you. Anita Farber Robertson, precinct 4, uh, town meeting member. Um,
I have been uh I've lived in Swamskit for 35 years and I've been a a neighbor of uh Mary Ellens for 15 years and she has been an invaluable neighbor and several of the neighbors have asked me
to to come and speak in support of Mary Ellen. I don't want to to disagree with what um people have said have been their experiences because people's experiences are their own and I trust that they are
true. Um among the things I do know is Mary Ellen lives around the corner from the police station as do I. And so I can certainly imagine Mary Ellen walking into the police station and saying,
"Have you seen this email?" Which is what she said she did. And they said, "No." And she said, "Well, here, deal with it." I mean, that's not to me that's not an abuse of power. It might have been sloppy, but it's not really an
abuse of power. But that's I don't want to quibble with the investigation. The the concern I have is this board has had a history over time of bad behavior
to each other that has been egregious. I have seen Mary Ellen be subjected by horrible behavior by Peter Spilios. Nobody did anything about it. Um I I was mortified on behalf of my town. Um we
have seen a lot of bad behavior. I think accountability is essential and it's a good thing for us to say now, okay, from now on we're going to step up and we're going to start cleaning up our act and we're not going to let people misbehave and we're not going to let people shout
at each other. We're not going to let people do things that have been going on for years unstopped. I would like it to stop, but you don't stop it by putting it all on Mary Ellen. Mary Ellen apologized. An apology is what an adult
does when they did a wrong thing. It's not for us to say whether that's a sincere apology. That's mind readading. She did the appropriate thing. I think the thing is for us to take ownership and say from here on in, we will hold
each other accountable and we will no longer yell at each other. We will no longer call each other names and we will no longer impugn negative intent when we can't mindread. I think we need to make a covenant and
agreement together from here on forward to be civil all of us. Mary Ellen, David Gisham, Katie, everybody. Any seconds >> to together. >> If there's no additional comment, I will read the comments that have Oh, sorry.
Go ahead. Good e good evening. My name is Tia Vasilio and I'm a resident on Lewis Road town meeting member and a former member of the board of assessors for nearly nine years. I'd like my comments to be included verbatim in the record from tonight's meeting. I'm here tonight
because I am feel compelled to speak about fairness, accountability, and the standards we choose to uphold as a town. I am deeply concerned with the inconsistency in how accountability is being applied by the select board. Recently, we've watched select board
member Marielleen Fletcher be publicly criticized over a mistake that she has addressed, acknowledged, and apologized for. Tonight, your meeting agenda calls to review this matter again and to consider further disciplinary action. During this time on the board, select
board During his time on the board, select board member David Gishman has demonstrated a pattern of unprofessional behavior at times with deeply personal attacks against town- elected officials, volunteers, advocates, and staff. Yet, no action has been taken by this board.
Where is the accountability? In 2024, while I was serving as chair of the board of assessors, Mr. Gishman publicly and falsely accused me of corruption. That is a serious allegation that he made without ever reaching out to me to ask questions or seek clarification. A former town employee reported that Mr.
Gishman along with the former town administrator also brought this acquis um accusation to the press and encouraged that employee to participate. The employee later released confidential and unredacted documents to the linen item. This matter was investigated by
the town and the findings were formally documented. However, no follow-up was ever taken. Additionally, it was brought to light that a building permit was not pulled for a basement renovation on Mr. Gishman's property. Not only is a permit required by law, but it also directly
impacts the town tax revenue. It appears as though Mr. Gishman was never required to come into compliance with that permit. I personally raised my concerns with all of you on this board and you each left me with the impression that you understood and agreed Mr. Gishman's behavior was toward Mr. Gishman's
behavior toward me was not acceptable. So I have to ask why has there been no public accountability? Why the silence? Several of Mr. Gishman's and other board members actions are clear violations of the code of conduct and this double standard sends a troubling message. It
tells people that some are held to one set of rules while while others are shielded from consequences. I also want to highlight one of the less considered impacts of Mr. Gishman's unprofessionalism and aggressive attacks. The pressure these have put on my family is the primary reason I have
chosen not to run for reelection. When dedicated volunteers and public servants are subjected to unfounded personal attacks without recourse, it discourages good people from stepping forward. We cannot afford that as a community. So tonight I am asking this board to
reflect what standards are you upholding and are they being applied equally? Will you follow through on the examples I have brought to you tonight? Because accountability should be should not be selective. It should be consistent, transparent and fair. Thank you.
Okay, I'm going to read into the record the Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, Miss Lao, could allow her to unmute. >> Please state your name. >> Can you hear me? >> Yes, we can. >> Great. Thanks.
out the road. Sorry, I'm just passively jumping on here because I happened to catch this on the uh the TV. I only heard about this incident last week at the very end of
watching your meeting and I have to say it was um horrifying, David Brushman, to see you making accusations um at somebody else for behavior that you have repeatedly
um presented on board multiple times in your um actions last July and you know exactly what I'm speaking about and so does Doug and so does all the other members I'm sure there um were terrible
irresponsible and nasty and it was all done in retaliation with you and your pal. um you shouldn't be ashamed of yourself and you should have resigned instead and you should have all forced him to resign
but nobody did. Nobody acted on it because people do not all of you and past words as well do not hold each other accountable. For over a year I stood at nearly every select board
meeting to speak to process and accountability and dignity. And has pretty much been ignored. So, frankly, I can't listen to any of you or um many of the things that go on any longer. I've
kind of just tuned it out. And it's a shame because I do realize you all have wonderful ideas. But the the the tone and the the just the nastiness and the phony baloney that seems to permeate the
board at some point. I I just I I find it puzzling that that that we're here yet again, but h other people have kind of gotten off free um or with less
harsh approaches. I I don't know the details uh other than what I heard on last week's meeting about Mary Ellen's role. It sounds terrible. It sounds unprofessional, but it is a long list of unprofessional things that seem to have
happened. Um, frankly, I'd like to see you all gone. I think that that might be an approach, but I'm not thrilled with all the characters that are running for, you know, First Lord now either and the direction that it might take our town.
>> Thank you. >> But, you know, I guess people in Glass Houses, Mr. Christian, and I just needed to say that. Good night. Okay. Um, so I have two, um,
public comments to read into the record. This is from Nate McName. Hi, Chair Felen. I'm writing to you today to express my strong support for Marielyn Fletcher and to urge the select board to move forward from the recent highly public uh, politicized noise surrounding her code of conduct breach. I saw that
the select board meeting this evening yet again has this item on the agenda and unfortunately our family is unable to to attend as we are managing a newborn six weeks. Congratulations, Nate. But I'd like to have this letter read in at the meeting if possible. My wife Britney and I moved to Swampscotta in 2021 and shortly after settling in,
we began tuning into the select board meetings. We were immediately impressed by Miss by Mary Ellen's ability to advocate for issues that truly matter to residents. We quickly came to appreciate her nononsense style and her unique ability to cut through the noise created by former members to make tangible
progress. Since then, we have had the privilege of getting to know Marielle and personally and are proud to call her a friend. She genuinely cares about this town, makes the time to listen to residents priorities, and actively helps people understand the complex issues the board is working through. Recently, Mary Ellen made a well-intentioned mistake by
reaching out to the police related to an implied hit-and-run accident. While this ultimately constituted a breach of the code of contact, she did exactly what a person of high character does. She took full account accountability and issued a public apology. Unfortunately, several members of the board have chosen to make this small issue a primary focus,
actively pursuing greater action against her. What is deeply frustrating as a resident is the glaring double standard. These same individuals have likely committed their own code of conduct breaches, utilizing their own titles of select board members to pursue their own prerogatives, reva housing. And yet
there was no accountability taken by them for those actions. Instead of doing the work the town needs, these personally motivated attacks have gen has generated weeks of acrimonious noise. Local media and Facebook pages are entirely dominated by this distraction, pulling focus away from the
actual issues impacting swamps. We see enough power-seeking acrimony and performative outrage at the national and state political stages. There's absolutely no space for this in our small town politics. I respectfully ask you as the chair lead the board in moving on from this matter. It is time to stop pursuing Mary Ellen and return
the board's focus to the real work that Swampscott needs to get done. Sincerely, Nate McNamera Road Swampscott. Uh second comment. Dear Chair Felen, I am unable to attend the public uh upcoming public meet. I'm sorry, this is uh Amy O' Conor. I am unable to attend
the upcoming public comment and I submit this letter in response to the Clifford and Kenny investigation dated March 25th 26th. The findings in this report are serious. The investigation concluded that Miss Fletcher's violate Miss Fletcher violated the select board's code of conduct by directing police action outside of her authority,
bypassing proper governance channels, failing to treat a fellow elected official with appropriate professional respect, and making inappropriate public statements. This should not be viewed as an isolated incident. While these findings are now formally documented, they reflect a pattern of behavior that I observed during my tenure on school committee. Beginning during her time on
finance committee and continuing through her role as select board. In my final two years on school committee, Miss Fletcher repeatedly bypassed established lines of communication, contacting school leadership directly rather than working through the select board chair, the town administrator, or the school committee chair. These interactions
often involved requests for information at times sensitive in nature and when responses did not align with her expectations escalated to attempts to direct actions despite lacking the authority to do so. This pattern created strain on school leadership and staff and at time placed employees in
difficult and uncomfortable positions. In at least one instance, a staff member felt compelled to block communication during the nature and frequency of the outreach. Over time, this environment contributed to my decision to step away from school committee after 13 years of service. This report raised broader
concerns about the impact of this kind of behavior on staff retention and the working environment for town employees more generally. The conduct described in the report is therefore consistent with the behavior that has occurred over time across multiple areas of town governance. I believe the public deserves to understand the broader context. Thank you for your attention.
Sincerely, Amy O' Conor. Looks like that will conclude public comments and we will move on to new and old business beginning with the discussion and possible vote on the potential resolution to censure. Select board member Marielen Flesher for
violation of chapter 5 section C the code uh section C conduct in relation to town staff and chapter 5 section A conduct in relation to other town officials in the Swamcat um Swamot board and the committee code of conduct.
Um so we um when this came onto the agenda, we approached KP and asked for what would be having not venture down this road before an appropriate form of censure related to the um findings from
the investigation. KP came back and gave us a draft censure uh for all of the violations related to um that were part of the findings. um that is what was reflected on the agenda. However, um as
the chair, I would like to recommend that we only consider um the violation for chapter 5 section C, which is conduct in relation to town staff and given the back and forth communications that have occurred from all the public comment and that have been sent to us on
our on to all of us um regarding the conduct in relation to other town officials. Um, you know, everybody shares some burden of blame here. And so, um, having heard the feedback from the community, uh, my primary focus and
what I asked the board to primarily focus on is the conduct in relation to town staff because ultimately, uh, the public has a way to get rid of us if they don't like us. Uh, that is, they don't get to vote for us, but town staff doesn't. um they're here to work for
this town and to put in their time and energy and they're sometimes put in positions. Um and I think we've heard from quite a few today who that this is not an isolated incident. Um I think
some of us have tried our very best to solve these problems outside of tonight. Um and we are here nonetheless. So that is my request to the board to consider. >> Should we give Mary Helen a chance to
speak first? I assume >> I can speak last. So I guess what what I would suggest is we entertain a motion to amend the center to focus just on the town staff section se section and then we can begin discussion if anybody wants to to
entertain that motion. >> I'll make the motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I I will second that. >> Okay. So we'll begin discussion. Don't be shy, guys. That's a lot to take in for sure. Um,
I do just want to correct one thing for the record. Um, there was no decision about what to do in executive session. Um, so This is a complicated matter as everyone
has expressed and um I think speaking for myself obviously that I value uh as I have shared with Mary Ellen many
times um her deep long-standing commitment to the improvement of the town Um, I know she works. >> I'm closer, done. >> Yeah. Thank you.
>> I don't have to repeat all that, do I? >> No. >> You sure? Okay. Um, I know she works incredibly hard and is very committed to the improvement of the town. So, while I know there are some people that
are very mad and um have experienced uh unacceptable things, I I don't feel like it's my place to make a judgment, nor do I really feel like it's particularly our place um to
uh discuss resignation. Uh what I do feel like is in our purview is um censure and obviously there are many many different opinions about this and
uh equivalencies or false equivalencies in terms of what's happened in the past. What we do have in front of us right now is in my opinion the most extreme example
that I've seen of commitment going way beyond and the board has pursued a very deliberate
process with an outside independent investigation. completely, as far as I'm aware, devoid of any select board influence except for those people that were interviewed as part of the process and returned
a clear problematic fat pattern. And so I frankly don't even really feel like I have a choice at this point. Uh, Mary Ellen did apologize last week. Um,
I will say that I felt that that was not as understanding of the ma magnitude of the offense
in the strength of the apology and it didn't sit well with me afterward. And so I feel as though for those people that have experienced
this type of behavior in the past and particularly as Katie mentioned, especially for town staff who really don't have any other recourse and didn't sign up for um
this type of instruction. Uh I think it's really really important that we draw the line and I know people will be frustrated that we didn't draw it at a different point. Um but I don't think that absolves us right
now of just looking the other way. Um so that's my rationale for why I feel like this is an important step um for us to take. So, I'll go next.
It's a little high. Sorry. So, I I the biggest thing that comes to mind for me today is we're damned if we do, we're damned if we don't. Because there are people who want to sit here and say and hold us accountable for not
doing something. And then there's a whole other group of people who want to say why now? Why is now the time to start picking apart certain issues? Um for me two things can be true.
When a member of the board of assessors was here and had a difficult time with Mr. Gishman, I publicly thought and said to Mr. Gishman sitting to my right how out of line I thought that was. That can be equally true to
how I feel about this situation being equally out of line, maybe more so for me. Um, first I want to apologize for any of the town staff who's here and had the guts to get up here and say
stories that they've probably said in the past and none of us have really done anything about because that is a position where it it's not an enviable position. It's it's it's painful and I apologize on behalf of this board for anything
that anyone has gone through. But the people that came here tonight are not the only people I've heard from. Town staff, board members, committee members, regular people that live in this town.
All of them have equal weight to me. And I'm not going to sit here and go through every single person who's told me something in relation to this situation. Um, I would never do that. But there are lots of people who are afraid to come and say anything today. And I I give
that a considerable amount of weight. Also, none of us I don't think any of the four of us want to be here doing this. I really don't. I know I don't. I did not sign up to be a select board member to sit here and um play good cop, bad cop,
and mediate between two grown adults. I've said that before. Um, I have publicly asked everybody on this board to start being civil, to collaborate, to work together, not with just the other four people on this board, but with the
other committees in this town, the other elected officials in this town. I've done it publicly. I've done it behind the scenes. I've done it every which way from Sunday. And sometimes it just doesn't land and it doesn't work and people don't listen. So to those people
that say why now? Because if ever we have to stand up and say enough is enough, I think this is the time. To me, when I read the report, when I listened to the police, it it it took a different
turn for me. It it felt more severe. I am not blind to other instances that I feel like this has happened. And again, you know, I'm not sitting I'm not sitting here trying to to throw stones at anybody, but I'm here because I'm
blunt, because I'm direct, and because I do what I think is right, and that's all I can offer, right? I can't I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm not that I'm perfect. I've never said that, contrary to uh Mr. Dementoto or anybody else that thinks that. Um I am so sure
that I have not made the correct move every single time. But I am also really sure that I've never done anything like this. And I am not here to get anybody. I'm not here to act like anything other than one of five on this board that is
trying to do things for this town that actually matter. This stuff doesn't this doesn't help the 15,000 people who put us here. And I am so tired, quite honestly, of wasting time dealing with it. Um but at the same time, I'm not going to sherk responsibility. we have
to deal with it, right? And you know, I'm I'm happy to do that. I'm not happy about it. Um, you know, I did certainly, um, I had the tides call and I certainly did give them my full opinion on what I thought about this. I'm not going to go
over it again. I'm happy to entertain anyone who wants to call me or email me and has a question about how I feel um, from my own experience as well as listening to other people out there. Um, you know, but by by no means does this mean that I discount anything that
pointedly Mr. Gishman may have done that I have very often publicly disagreed with and and certainly if he were to remain on this board and and exhibit the same type of behavior like sorry David but I certainly would hold him to task the same way I am
today. Two things can be true. It doesn't mean you're part of one camp because you are taking a stance here. It just means that at some point somebody has to stand up and do what's right. >> That >> pardon? >> How do you know I didn't?
>> How do you know I didn't? >> Let's >> It's not, but I'm happy to answer it. >> I know, but let's not engage. I'm I'm sorry, but there was time for public comment and this is not the time for public comment. So, thank you, Danielle. >> Sure. Appreciate it. Yep.
>> Additional comment. You >> want me? Do we have any more additional comments? >> I'm asking you if you have additional comments. >> Sure. Um, I said last week that I take full responsibility for what I did. I made a mistake.
I violated the code of conduct. I made a mistake and I'm sorry for it. I said I would do better and I would really like it if you could just take your vote so we could start
doing some real serious business and um take care of the issues that that are really important in the town right now with the budget and everything. I have made a mistake. I take full responsibility for it. I apologized last week. I'm apologizing again.
And I really don't know what else to say other than that. I apologize. >> Um, so just quickly before we move to a vote, I just want to say um, nobody up here more than me does not
want to be doing this. I have cultivated a relationship with Mary Ellen over the past four and a half years. And while not everything happens publicly, I have spoken to many board members about their actions, about the way they speak to one another, about the lack of
respect, about how we can uphold ourselves to certain professional standards, about where boundaries exist. And it's an unbelievable mental load for everybody to put that on the chair. I am not responsible for the
grown adults on this board. I am responsible to try and keep order and make sure that town government continues. Um it has likely
I I don't know why things didn't get to this point with David to be honest and I wasn't responsible to take things to this point with David. I am responsible to take things to this point as I sit in the chair position now. And as much as I don't want to be here
and have asked and have tried to get to a point where we aren't here, we are here. And it it has just been a very complex and complicated position to be here. And I
have had a chord ring with me the same way that town staff has about that feeling of pressure, intimidation, disappointment built on relationships. This is all built relationship building, right? And
and it is difficult for me to be here because I don't want to be here, but that doesn't mean it's not the right place to be. And I think at this point we have to put our boundary down and stand up for town staff and just make them understand
that we hear them and we see them and going forward keep that boundary in place and not let it get to the point that Marie Ellen or anybody else on this board has taken it to. Um and and again
I can't say why we haven't gotten there in the past but all I can do is as chair say that the commitment I made when I took chair was that I might have to get here. It's unfortunate that I am and I'm displeased that I am but we're here nonetheless. So,
um I'll entertain uh if nobody has anything additional, we'll entertain the motion as amended, which is um to reprimand and censure um select board member Marielen Fletcher for violations
of the chapter 5 section C conduct in relation to town staff of the uh Swampscott board and committee code of conduct. Uh all in favor >> I >> I >> I >> opposed >> opposed.
>> Well, uh so I don't know if you can vote. Do we have a motion on that? I mean, do we have feedback on that? The opinion of KP is that it's implicit that the person who's the subject cannot vote because it needs to be a unanimous vote and it
would render the entire thing >> pointless >> pointless if the one dissenting vote is the person who is the subject. >> Okay. Uh so going forward then the vote should
reflect for zero zero with Marielle and not being able to vote. Uh moving on to the next item on the agenda which is discussion on the IDE and sewer laterals. Um Gino's here this
evening. >> If I could just speak to it briefly. I this was at the request of Mr. Gresman that we have a you know somewhat brief discussion about the process that has been ongoing dating back to 2017 where
improvements have been made on the IDE work. um in some cases on private property. So, I just wanted to make sure that everyone was sort of on the same page going. Gina's available to share a brief overview and then answer questions that uh the board may have, but we don't have a presentation. Danielle,
>> okay, >> that's why trying to give the it's, you know, it's available to give a brief update and then obviously answer questions as we go. >> Patrick, would you mind passing your Thank you. >> Before we can I just ask a question like why I'm confused. Why are we talking
about this? We're talking about the future on how to do IDE or >> it came up in conversation last meeting about the fact that private sewer laterals were being replaced by the town. >> So they're done in the past.
>> Yeah. So this is direct. We received some additional information from KP about if anything could be done for what we've done in the past and then what can be done going forward if if that was no longer the policy that we wanted to do. >> I can just please >> we're doing it because it was on the
agenda. We wanted to make sure that Gino could answer questions but to your point I think you know questions can be answered around the decisions and the process we've gone through. We do have one option that Patrick can speak to a little bit going forward and that was what we also wanted to share with you
all. Um we have discussed here. It's just that we will lay out what we anticipate looking into and we can of course come back as we explore that a little more. But I'll turn it over to Gino on the >> Well, it was also brought up in the context of the budget, right? >> Yeah. In fact, there were, you know,
David made some claims uh that were astounding to me um that uh from that were referenced by someone else about how much money had been spent on these things. And here we were, you know, nickel and dimeming other things and we were ostensibly potentially all of us
somewhat collectively I will uh it certainly wasn't Geno on its own from my perspective. Um you we collectively had you know engaged down this path, right? And uh it's a it's a gut check uh to see like what are we doing here? >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So quick overview. You've heard this many times. On November 23rd, 2015, a consent decree between the United States and the Thomas Swampskut was entered into US District Court with the intention of identifying and eliminating non-storm water discharges to the store
system as required by the Clean Water Act. So back then, Tom Younger, town administrator, and I met with the EPA. They told us we're in violation of the Clean Auto Act. Said, "How do we want to resolve this?" They said, "It's not up
to us to tell you. You need to resolve this on your own." They hit us. They were initially trying to find us $125,000. is we negotiated it down to $65,000 which still was hefty in my mind when I said we could take that $65,000
and utilize it to repair in our system >> or use chlorine. >> Sorry, >> that was brought up as well because I said we don't have an issue right now because we got chlorinate. >> Anyways, before I left the office, EPA
representative said, I know you asked us how you want to resolve this. We're not going to tell you how to resolve this, but we're going to give you a little information. Why don't you head over to Norwood and meet with the DPW director there? He's under a similar consent decree. And he said, "Success in
cleaning up his illicit discharges." Sure enough, Dave Peters and I make a trip over to Norwood. I meet with Mark Ryan, DPW director over there at the time. Just a little aside, he said, "How long you been the DPW director in Swamps?" At
the time, I said 12 years. He said that's unheard of. Who lasts 12 years in a town >> today? Do you know how many? >> Almost 23. So, one of the things that Mark said to me is, Gino, I'm going to give you a little advice. We lined all the sewer
mains in town. We didn't do the laterals at the time. Once we placed the laterals or relined them, we went back tested. We didn't get the results we were looking for. We had to go back into those neighborhoods a second time. disrupt everybody, put out
a second contract. We weren't getting the economy at scale we should have the first time. By doing the laterals, we got pretty good results. Took that advice, went back to Kleinfelder. Kleinfelder thought it was a good idea. I supported that. I always said it was my recommendation. I don't know if it
was ever my decision. Tom Younger was the DP uh town administrator at the time. We sat and that was the direction we decided to go. Phase 1 A. subsequent phases we've done 1 A, 1 B, 1 C, and we're just almost
complete with 2A right now and we've continued to do it. It's not that I ever hid this from anybody. I've stood up there many of times and said, "We're doing the laterals." If someone had directed me not to do it, may not agree with them, but I have bosses when done it.
As I said, never hid any of these numbers. I can give these to you right now because I know there was some concern. So to date through phase 2a we've invested about $9.8 million into reline and sew mans
and laterals. To date we've spent $2.9 million doing the laterals. So yeah like I said never hit it. It is what it is. Which if you look at construction costs
to replace the laterals really to rely on them, you're looking at about 42% of the contract. When you add in engineering, police details, and other incidentals, that's what gets us to the 9.8 million. Now you're looking at 30% of the cost at
the 2.9 is to sol. And in a nutshell, that's it. And I'm happy to answer any questions. Maybe before we get to questions from Gina, we can move on to Patrick's piece of the conversation, which is I know you
all spoke to KP um about if if there was anything we could do going backwards and you have an answer and then if there anything potentially we could do going forward. >> Mike, >> okay. Um so in terms of the work that
has been performed on the sewer laterals, there's nothing that would enable us to reach back and assess individual property owners for work that was done. Um going forward, there's a mechanism in state law called a
betterment. Um there's a procedure where through town meeting at the approval of the project and then through an assessing board which in this case would be most likely the select board um would choose to pass on costs proportionally to owners benefited from these types of
improvements and those would be um available either you know to pay upfront or through installments through um assessments on the real estate bill for that individual property. Um so that's kind of high level option going forward.
>> Can the um betterment assessment be paid at passing of title also or is it just in installments? >> Yeah. So it's not required to be paid off at passing of title. Um but certainly I think for anyone who's
selling property and getting financing, they'd probably expect that to be paid off at closing. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, how much um how many like how much how much per lateral >> roughly
>> roughly about $3,000 in the line item. It's $2,500 per lateral, but then the incidentals about video and it repairs. I averaged all that together to get about $3,000. >> I just assume you're trying to get at how many laterals have we actually done? >> Yeah. Well, no, actually I was I was
actually, you know, I was getting at like how much of a big benefit have the people, >> you know, received that this has already happened. You know, I mean, is it is it a $30,000 value? No, it's a $3,000 value. Yeah, >> probably not because of the economy of scale on a contract like this. If you
were to call in this company rely on your lateral right now, it's probably going to be between5 and $10,000. >> Yeah. >> But it's only costing us three because we have >> we did >> other contracted work. They're already there volume >> doing 500 right in the contract right
>> so how many laterals then quick math >> I had that number >> do you think we have done >> it's a thousand right >> two thousand >> it's 500 and something as of >> maybe I had that number here >> I know
>> does it matter >> it I it it does matter for the conversation just for equity I think it does matter >> I'm going to get well well 3 million and divide it by >> well >> 3,000 >> 3,000 >> right but it's really in phase one improvements
>> 500 >> we did 470 of them >> okay >> and it was a difficult decision for me because obviously I know a lot of people in town somebody's having an issue with their sewer lateral on the opposite side of the street when I say the opposite side of the street we only line the sewer laterals that crossed over the
drain >> so when someone came to me on the other side of the street said can you do mine too if you know what the obvious answer was No. >> Right. >> I'm confused now. Uh, what am I doing wrong? $3 million >> divided by 3,000 for each one.
>> Yeah, >> that sounds like a thousand to me. >> So, 470. >> Hold on. Yeah, I >> just want to see how many we did in phase 2 A because we did 470 of them in
phase one when you combine A, B, and C. And then I guess there were only 77. So you're still looking at >> So the cost >> might be closer to between five and six. >> Yeah. Maybe even more. >> Five and 6,000 peral. Okay.
>> Right. >> Peral. >> Because it sounds like we're just over 500 total, right? Yeah, 77. And I broke it down for you if anybody wants to see how much they were charging us with each one, each phase. It's here. Why it was a little different is it isn't just the
sewer laterals. They talked about inspection, repairs, there's line items for everything in here. >> Yeah. Okay. >> So, I I just I just have a few questions. So, I understand that KP says we can't require um residents to to
repay the the $6,000 bet betterment benefit, unjust enrichment, whatever we want to call it. Uh here, >> uh is is there is there any way of is there any way of of sending a letter to see if we can potentially I mean this these are this is rateayer and taxpayer
funds, rateayer funds. Um, you know, we did just have an increase of 20 plus percent uh to our water and sewer bills. Um, so I mean, I just have the best interest of the of the taxpayers um and and rateayers at heart. Is there
anything that we can do even on a voluntary basis to say, "Hey, Mr. Mr. and Mrs. John Q public can, you know, we we we took care of this. Is there any way that you can write a check to the town of Swampskit to reimburse these these costs?" I I cannot imagine
that we would be prohibited from requesting someone make voluntary payments to the town. Certainly, I would distinguish unjust enrichment from betterments. Betterments are a technical
term used in municipal government to fund projects like this. So, I just want to make sure my my apologies. >> Okay. I I just want to make sure that we're all wrong. Sorry. >> That we're all on the on the same page. has more legal center than a betterment >> um >> in the way that you utilize it.
>> So I'm I'm sure that we could ask I I would also just underline and highlight that this work is done with the ultimate goal of getting out from under the consent decree. >> Right. >> And so there is a net benefit to the community at large whether someone makes a voluntary payment or not if we were to
make that request of the folks who have um had this work done in their private property. But the the ultimate goal is that we want to get out from under the consent decree as soon as possible and strategically the decision was made early in this process that this would be one of the tools in the toolbox to try to get to that goal. So I think we would
be more than happy to work with KP uh maybe even the former acting town accountant and other like we have other consulting services that to see what is a way that we could frame this what is a way we could send it out. Um I wouldn't want to again sort of balance anything
on that. It would be wonderful if we were to get some to sort of lower the load on the rest of the rate payers, but there's not an expectation that we can set that someone would be required to pay for work previously completed like that. Under understood. Um I guess the other question is you know moving
forward um how are we going to handle these you know these types of the these the how are we going to handle this moving forward? You know, cuz right now we're still fixing, we're still using public dollars >> on private property. >> Yeah. >> Well, I'm a public purpose.
>> I'm going to throw a uh throw a curveball. Sorry, buddy. Um, >> it's not private property. >> Well, half of it is was on private and the other part's on public, >> but it's for a public It's for a public. >> So, that's I'm going to go at it a little bit differently. Is there any private benefit truly to
having one's sewer lateral lined >> shiny and new? >> I mean really is like does it help the homeowner whatsoever? I mean the only benefit that I'm aware of is actually cleaning up the beach, right? I mean >> I think in in fairness
>> recast it a little bit. I think in fairness to the point that I think David is raising, the benefit is that if we identified that there was some significant problem or there was a crack that there was been >> sealed by the the use of this lining
project that we have, then yes, there's a benefit at some point that would become a problem for the the property owner potentially. So there out there there's certainly a benefit that they could derive if there was a leak or something that was solved for by the
work that we were doing. >> Okay. >> Because home to David's point, homeowners are responsible for laterals. It's true for water service and sewer service. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I guess my point's just a tiny bit nuanced, which is
yes, but the public purpose overpowers the private benefit, which was which is to get out of the consent decree to get the beach clean and to be on the right track uh with how we maintain our all of our sewer and water infrastructure.
And I'm I'm not denying David's point that there is a private benefit, but if the public benefit outweighs the private benefit, then is it not a worthy pursuit? And I think it is sort of it is ill faded for the board to go back on something sort of a decision was made
and yes, we're in hard economic times now, so maybe we can't make that decision going forward, but I don't think it's the right approach to go backwards even to voluntarily ask homeowners to to do that. I think I don't think that's the right use of
time, but I do think going forward that we could do a little bit more. I would like a little bit more information about how Betterman's work, how how a resident is notified, how what sort of option they have, whether or not to participate, can they pay it upfront, is
it 100% their cost? I mean, obviously there's a cost savings based on economy of scale that we were just talking about. Um, I just would love to understand People People don't even know that you had to go in line. It's not like a building permit where you know
you're adding something to your home. You're increasing your value and you make a decision not to pull a building permit and pretty much steal from the town. Most people that had this h had this work done didn't even know that they were having the work done or >> correct
>> or was there even a crack in the lateral or we just line the laterals to make sure? >> We came first. Okay. Okay. >> So, some houses were already done and they were in plastics. So, we wouldn't rely. >> Okay. >> And like you said, 90% of them we did from the main. We never went into the
homes. So, they had no idea we did it. >> Okay. Do you know, do we know who has had their laterals done? Is that public information? >> Yep. I have every single address. >> And the decision to do however many of these we did, that was Tom Younger's
decision. Or was it yours? Would you say >> it was my recommendation to let him know and he supported my recommendation? >> Right. >> That was just on phase one and then phase two, three, phase 1 A, 1 B and 1 C was Sean and I
guess technically 2A was me. >> Okay. Did you have so that people can understand this process, did we make the determination on which ones did people actually come to you asking to have their laterals? No, they knew nothing about it. So it was us going through seeing which ones
>> we went out >> were problematic. >> Yep. >> And then letting Did were the homeowners made aware that we were doing this to for them >> when we got out on the street? But prior they no knowledge. >> They had no idea. Did they get any official documentation? Nothing. >> They came at everything from the main. So we had have no idea we're going by
your house to do it. >> Right. And there's for sure a chance that they saw you on the street figuring you were fixing something that did not involve their lateral and they have actually no knowledge that their lateral was even replaced by the town. Correct. >> Exactly. And then some people that I alluded to earlier caught wind that we're lying at one side and said, "Can
you do mine as well?" >> Right. >> We had even a worse story. I felt bad. There's a member of the water sewer infrastructure who paid $10,000 to have his lined and cleaned and two months later we went in and did the rest of the street for nothing. >> And he was looking for
reimbur I said I can't >> right >> so for you to be put I feel like this puts you in a really awkward situation because >> whichever ones you've done and you're being approached by people on the same street I mean I feel that it's not
really fair to you to be put in this this kind of you know situation where you have to make the determination >> yes I can do it for you no I can't do it for you it seems to me like we need some set of parameters we do have right we We only reline the laterals that crossed
over the drain. >> Right? >> Sewer runs center of every street. The drain is on the left side or the right side of that as you're going down the street. >> Right. >> So the only line the sewer ladder was that crossed over the drain because we figured that sewer water was
excfiltrating into the >> I personally would like to see a listing of which ones we've done and where. >> Can we do that for you? just to know, just so it just so the public can know that there can be no other questions put out about this. Um,
so we're all clear, >> you know, where they've been done, what streets, who the homeowner is, whatever it might be. So that that should maybe ease some of these >> Yep. >> you know, questions that we have right now or that I don't personally have, but you know, that others might have, maybe
other board members or people of the public. Um, and I think it makes sense for us to have documentation of who's we have done. Um, just so we can have that, right? I think any homeowner would want that if they if they have >> I have all the addresses.
>> But I I do think too that it was all in the interest of getting, you know, being under this consent decree. And I don't think there was any u nefarious intent or, you know, we're trying to do it for some people, we're trying to do it not for these people. But at the same time, if there was some type of conflict or
ethical issue, I think it's fair, we need to be transparent about it and know exactly who has benefited. >> Um, but I to Katie's point, I really don't see how we could then go back to people and say, "Okay, well, we did this for you. Can you contribute something
back because we're having a difficult financial year?" That doesn't make really any sense to me. Um, you know, >> I don't want to spend the $3 million. I'm a rate payer just like all of you. I'm guessing my bills might be higher than every one of you sitting up there, right? Probably. >> Did you get your ladder all cleaned? Um,
so I don't want to know the answer to that. I actually don't want to have the list. I have no need to know the list. You did what you needed to do, period. Um, but I do think that it's reasonable for us to split the difference here. Um, because there's a public benefit and there's a private benefit. Um, I don't
think there's anything wrong with us going back to the people that actually had it done and voluntarily asking them uh whether or not they'll contribute uh and letting them know if if we're going to do it going forward um and ask people to uh contribute half uh is my
suggestion actually. um if there's some public and private benefit then you know we are in a tough situation um and why not have people contribute um because if it's we're talking a few thousand dollars and you spread that over you
know however with the average period of time that people are in their homes um this doesn't have to be a terribly significant uh impact for people um so that that that's my suggestion is to find a balance >> well I just I find it difficult to tell
people we're going to raise their taxes and we're going to increase their water bills and then we're going to ask them to give us a couple thousand dollars for something we did without their consent or authorization that just so happened to maybe improve their property but at the same time really helped us for a
situation that we're trying to get out >> under consent decree but that's just that's my personal >> that's why I'm only saying half >> can as a better by definition of a betterment can we even assess only half or do we have to assess the full value. >> So the nature of the betterments is
everything has to be laid out in advance. So people are notified. You know a project has to be approved at town meeting. An order of construction has to be passed by an assessing board which would be the select board in this instance. Laying out the area the work is to be done and the the percentage of
cost that shall be recovered through betterments and furthermore the method of allocating that cost you know for different type PE towns do betterments for all kinds of work. Um, and there's measurements, you know, frontage of the lot or, you know, length of lateral,
like there has to be some measurable that's defined in advance of the assessment. >> I think Patrick's going to law school. >> I know. I feel like he is. Um, so then we could say if it was the will of the board that we were going to assess a betterment of $1,000 for every
individual whose house received lateral the lateral repair or lining. Um, and that we were would just ask for $1,000 regardless of what the town's fee was. That is that could be done under Betterments. >> Yeah, in theory you could.
>> In theory. Okay. >> I just wanted to make sure it didn't have to be the full value. >> No. >> Okay. No, I just I I think that's I think that's a very positive step and I just I just don't think that we as a
town can afford to do what we've done in the in the past just given our just given the current situation um and the the the continued work that needs to be that needs to be done. >> So, we're hoping to wrap this up in one final contract. We're going to probably
have to move quickly because for us to utilize the SRF loan that we applied for, we have to have a contract in hand signed by July 1st of 2026. >> And then how would we enact? >> So I think since tonight was a
discussion and not a vote, Patrick and I have the direction to come back on the 29th or the 6th. We will do it one of the next two meetings with an outline of the steps that need to be taken and with a reasonable timeline of how we can get there. Great. >> Well, let me ask one other, you know, we had this whole conversation. We didn't
really ask how many more laterals do you think there are to do? >> Another three or 400 in 2B. >> Okay. It's worth it. Okay. >> It's worth it. >> So, we we can lay out the steps and what
value change we may be able to influence. And although the board will be different, we understand it's a direction to be moving forward with. Well, we there's going to be a conversation about whether or not we're gonna have another meetings before the election, but >> I I don't think that we could necessarily be ready for before the
election is all I'm saying. >> Um, also I do want to say because I there is a distinction between this coming on the backs of rateayers and I mean we used a lot of ARPA funds to pay for this work also. >> So some of the lateral work >> Yeah.
>> is not necessarily coming out of pockets of rateayers. Um if you think about the place by which we funded some of this work also >> right we saved 1.7 million on that. So what was the total dollar value? What was the total dollar value on the laterals?
>> Phase two was paid out of money. So you subtract $579,000. >> But the total number you suggested was all the phase all the 1A phase and 2A >> and 2A. Right. So if you subtracted the 2A you're taking 579,000 out of the
>> out of the 2.9. So 2.3 and change >> was paid with ARPA funds. >> No, the other way around. >> All the way around. >> The other way around. >> Okay. >> So the 600 approximately 600,000 was ARPA. >> Okay. >> We don't want to go back down the ARPA. >> No, but but if you think about if you if
you think about it as far as >> we have money right there. >> Money going into into the work that would have come out of the enterprise fund would have been 1.7 million out of the enterprise fund if we if we have if we had to fund that ourselves. So There
is a savings to all all rateayers >> of 17 >> and there will be even more if we ask people to contribute more. >> Right. >> Yep. >> Well, we'll continue this discussion since vote is not listed on the agenda. So, we will continue this discussion at
the next meeting. Thank you Patrick and Gino joining us. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. We'll move on to discussion and possible vote on the annual town meeting warrant for May 18th. >> Each of you have the draft warrant. Uh it is with KP for final review. We
anticipate getting it back the beginning of next week. Um the articles listed on the warrant represent all of the things that we reasonably anticipate uh including. Um and the one addition based
on our last meeting was a discussion that um I think the the chair had had and uh with Mary Ellen and potentially had heard from others around a potential charter change for the fincom appointments. >> Yeah, have a conversation about
>> I believe it's article 12 or 13. >> Um >> can we just talk about can we talk real quick just about the format on the format >> is the the formatting exactly the same as it was last year.
So just before we get into copy editing, the the actual motion that we would have would give us the opportunity to work to form on with town council and also with you know Patrick and I. But are you suggesting that like the columns are different or
>> Well, I'm just I'm just wondering here um I don't have last year's in front of me, but we have the actuals estimated for 2026. the original estimate >> have last year's warning. >> I'm just wondering if if it was if it's
being if the setup is the same. Patrick, is the setup the same? >> Referring to the budget summary, >> the format should be the same as what was presented last year. >> Okay. But I think did that format I just I'm going to go back and look at some past because I think we dropped a column.
>> I'll go back and look. >> Okay. >> You mean we maybe dropped a column not last year but years prior? >> Yeah. Year before. >> Okay. And then when I was looking at it, it >> um >> look like we're a little short. >> And the other just for form, the other
thing is the one I had shared last week is a format that we will have it in. It looks a lot nicer, but is harder to be editing. So we'll show you that final product in the end. This is just about the content and making sure that the articles listed represent the full um
intended articles to be presented. So, I I do just want to have a discussion before we dive into the nitty-gritty here about article the idea of article 12, which is a change to the appointment process for fin. This is
a charter change. Marielleen had originally brought it up as something to think about. Um, I thought it made sense to bring it forward to the board to discuss. Um but also in the context of
we about every 10 years we have done a charter review committee and 2026 will be our anniversary >> been a couple of small edits but that would be since the last whole >> okay so so it's been we started in 2006 we did it again in 2016 2026 would be
sort of 10 years prior it makes good sense for good governance to be have a cadence um to do charter view um where things aren't working. This isn't the only um you know idea that I've heard in changes to charter. I've heard about
moving elections to November so that this exact issue which we're facing right now at this meeting doesn't happen because new members are coming on as the warrants trying to be opened and closed and the budget and then um so there are a couple of you know ideas being floated
around. So while I think conceptually I agree with the change to appointment process for fincom um I think it should go through a a charter review committee to to be thought through in the context of other changes also but that is just
my two cents. So happy to you know be swayed in any other direction. So I want to give him the reason why I I put this in here is because this article has been floated before >> and because of the importance of
appointing people to those committees that waiting on a I feel that waiting on a full charter review is it just takes so much so much longer. Um, and just doing, you know, putting something in
for a charter change, one article in for a charter change. I really don't see that as a problem. I'm looking at doing something with a little bit more expedience. >> Um, it's really important that we have solid members on these committees or just at least advertise to have members
on these committees and not have one individual choosing it. When when you hear a member of the finance committee, when you ask them, you know, how did you get on the finance committee? And they say, well, I played lacrosse with the moderator's daughter. You know, that's
to me that's a little troublesome. I mean, I think that I mean, there are great people in the finance comm. hasn't taken anything from the partnership, but I really would like to see something a little bit more in-depth or representative of of the public such as asking people to send in resumes and go
through some type of a process. And so we're talking about two things here is what would the process be and I can talk about that and or should we just wait for a charter change now for a charter change committee. Now we did have when David was the chairman um I think we had
sent out information to all the committees asking for any recommendations on their charter changes but that was now two years ago. >> So the question is are we going to delay it even more and make another committee and you know go through the whole
process. It takes about that pro this process of an entire charter change is a long process. So, I thought that it would be a good idea just to at least have the one article in and to address it and to get your ideas. My my idea was
originally to have the select board choose one choose one candidate, the moderator choose another candidate or the select board choose all candidates. There's uh Marblehead does it one and another. >> Winthrup does everything by their their
council which is similar to their select board. I think I forget what Lynfield does. What does Lynfield do? >> Uh it's split but moderator has the majority. I think in Winthrop it's the council president. >> The council president has outsized power
in Winthrop. It's not first among equals. So >> he works directly with the m town manager. I can talk to Tony and >> get more background. >> Well and the receptionist said that it was a town council that voted. So I'm just relaying for her. So I I don't I
think we should have a discussion about it. I don't >> I I don't I don't want to change anything now. I I totally get the fact that it seems a little odd. I don't think that we have any other committee that's basically appointed the whole committee by one person. Um so I get
that for sure. Um but I don't think one year is going to and I do think that there's could be a lot of different things that you might um want to change and what the impact is of the different changes. uh seems to make sense to me that it really should go through a process. So,
>> I think I I think I think we're sitting here on um on the 15th of of April um and the proposed a charter change which is going to be uh you know a dramatic change to the operations of our of our finance committee um you know should be
fully studied. You know we we did propose you know a charter change around uh voting. We studied that. We seated a committee uh and those recommendations were were brought forth to us uh you know in a clear transparent manner um
you know with a presentation. Did it take did it take a long time? Sure. But it also um it also really brought about uh a number of ideas which we can then implement as a town. Um and I think it's important that we that we do take it through that uh you know that process
specifically. I do think we have, you know, very uh very dedicated, hardworking members of uh of the finance committee. So, I you know, I certainly want to want to point um you know, point out the fact that they're working diligently uh on the budget just as we
are, just as CIC is, just as town staff is. So, um you know, I do think that uh that they should be recognized for their efforts. And I I think we should, you know, we should certainly look at that. And to Mary Ellen's point, we did collect a lot of uh a lot of information, a lot of data points from
chairs and committees. Katie, I still have that information somewhere and I will send it over uh to you. I just need to uh to gather it, but I I do I do have it um in a folder. >> Be a starting point for a charter. >> Absolutely. Yep. Um, yeah, I just think
with the advent of a new moderator that maybe we should work with the new moderator to try to set a policy process in place for how the appointments are made so there's some more transparency into how the new moderator will be appointing them in
>> in the meantime. >> It's good, right? I mean it seems to me to be in collaboration with even the chair of the finance committee. You know, I'd like to know what the process is now. If people do submit resumes, how they actually
get appointed, right? They don't just pluck names or do they? Um, I'd like to know what the process is now. um before I decide about recommendation to change, but I would like to to do it in collaboration with the chair of the finance committee, the
moderator, the new moderator coming in, not just kind of, you know, isolated to us in a vacuum, but um because I do think it's it's going to take input from different areas, not just us. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So I think um what we can commit
to do if it works is commit to a charter review committee understanding the time it will take. In in the meantime we can meet with the new moderator and ask for a process and procedure to be outlined for how future appointments will be made so that we can have something some
accountability and transparency for the public to understand if they want to join FINCOM how they go about doing so. And then um we probably should just motion now to remove it from the draft. That way you know >> we just have a clear path forward. So
somebody wants to make that motion. >> I don't even know if we need a motion. >> Well, doesn't hurt. >> Sure. I move removal of article 12 for now. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Okay, great. That's unanimous.
>> All right. So that puts that in a different trajectory. I won't say back burner because that means we're not going to do it, but we are. Um, let's go. How do you want to move through this, Nick? >> Whatever way you all would prefer. The first few articles are standard. It's
really not until we get past the budget with the exception of making sure we have the same information we have historically to the note that Mary Allen gave us. Um, it's not until we get to I got to put on my glasses. Sorry.
>> Has Fincom voted on anything? No, >> no, no. >> They anticipate voting uh I think at the beginning of next week. Is that right, Patrick? >> Yeah, they have a meeting this Thursday and then another meeting on Tuesday. >> The following Thursday. >> Oh, Thursday. Sorry. >> Um so they'll possibly be voting on
articles at either of those meetings. >> Do we even have article two? It goes two and then four first of all three. >> Is there a reason? And then >> Nope. Let me check. >> The reason is me, Doug. Okay, just >> you don't like the number
>> and this isn't me. This isn't me taking responsibility for someone else. It's it's literally >> finance and then it starts article one two is here >> counting Nick. >> Uh there's no page numbers which might be helpful as a takeaway. Um just so I >> Yep, it is.
>> Thank you. >> The bottom of the next page right there where your finger is. So article one is reports of the town boards and committees. Article two, approval of the bills from pri prior fiscal year. Um and then it goes to amend an appropriation for fiscal year 26
operating budget >> and 27 operating budget which then is listed the operating budget. >> So do you want me to just walk through them real quick and Patrick can also jump in or do you want to just speed through the way you were doing it? I mean I think for the time being we
should just until Fincom votes on these we likely unless anybody has some >> so we're not asking yeah we tonight we're not asking you to make a recommendation or opine on the article just >> the hope would be that if the the articles that are included are satisfactory that we could close it with
the motion that allows for the form and the feedback from fine fin. You all would make your recommendations after their votes as you're saying, but that way we can close the warrant at least. >> What do you have a question, Doug? >> We can close the warrant.
>> Your recommendations are not part of this. This process is making sure that a citizen or resident knows the topics that they can anticipate at town meeting. That's what this is. The vote and the recommendation is separate and it's something we want done prior to printing.
>> Okay. But uh you think I know this already, but like it's the budget that's in here. We're not we're not we're not >> validating that that will be the budget that will be in here. You're just saying there will be a budget in here. >> Correct. >> The motion as town council uh suggests
if we wanted to close and go through this exercise would be I move that the board vote to approve the warness draft is subject to further revision as to form by town council and the town administrator and inclusion of the finance committee message and final budget. Which are the two things that are not in here right now
>> today appropriate appropriate >> Wait, can you just >> I'm gonna read it again. >> No, I'm just I'm a little bit lost that what we're looking at doing. So, it's it's open now. >> Yep, it's open. We opened it last week. >> Got that. and
we're looking at just why why aren't we just leaving it open and then why don't we just leave it open and then when we have the information from fincom we just finish it then >> we we could but if substantively nothing is going to change except the budget
that fin recommends and we're not putting another article in then the alternate alternative is we could close it based on the article number sub like headings nothing is nothing is going to get in or out and we could
allow us to move forward with recommendations after the closure. >> It it would give us more time to be preparing everything. Basically, I I'm not there is no substantive change that occurs. The budget will be in it. We'll see the numbers and you'll recommend or
not recommend. The the topics that are the individual articles of the warrant remain the same. So that that's what opening and closing the warrant is. It's the topics. >> Okay. And the budget that goes in here no matter what is the fincom budget.
>> It's their budget. >> Yeah. It's their budget. >> Yeah. We actually uh just as a aside we voted to move the budget to fin. But we don't actually have the ability to approve it once it comes back to us. You're opining on their budget.
>> We will opine on their budget in the sense of whether or not we recommended in the warrant. But >> right, because last year we actually disagreed. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> And there's always the opportunity page by page as the moderator goes through to make individual edits to a line >> by any member or by a board, you know.
>> Yeah. So, is this exercise um not valuable or I mean I see some of the board members are >> the only reason the only uh it seems a little odd but if it sounds like you find some value in getting it closed so that you can proceed with some work that
you wouldn't otherwise be able to proceed with. So that >> in in many communities the the warrant would open and close in February and March for May town meeting. It's not it's not always the case that towns keep it right up until the minute it's going
to the printer. And so since we do agree on the the article topics and the general, you know, contents, I it's my request, but we can easily continue to put it into form to be prepared for printing if you would prefer not to. It's just another uh
>> you know, topic for a select board meeting that we would come back to for a second time if that were the case. I think the other thing is that we have all belabored the fact that we scatter to try to get the warrant closed at the last minute. And if we don't have to do that because we're all in agreement on
the topics, why are we putting ourselves through that exercise? >> And just for a just blocking and tackling and I know I'm making assumptions about an election, Doug, but assuming that you and David don't somehow remain on the board, >> if you all close it, >> surprise. If you all if you all close
it, the current board is the one that signs it and it's a ministerial act to sign it before the your replacements are sworn in. If you don't close it, I think the most likely outcome is that you all will not have another opportunity to do it. >> But that's assuming we're going to have another meeting before the election.
>> If we have a meeting on Monday, you need to sign it before they're sworn in. So, it just we're we're sort of needlessly condensing things and I'm not sure what the ultimate change is that we're trying to avoid and I'm happy to avoid it if someone can help me
>> understand it. >> Well, there's two things. Uh it's I'm fine if you want to I'm fine to close the warrant. You know, that's fine. There's another conversation about whether or not we have another meeting before the election and whether or not we make any uh opine.
>> Yes. as this board >> a different conversation. >> Yeah. Um but actually there's one thing. Is it on purpose at this point that we do want to have rodenticides in both categories? >> I did put it in both categories to align with the discussion at the last board.
>> But ultimately that's we don't want to prove the warrant in this form do we? >> That is the form in which it would have to move forward. >> Yes. Because they she would have to withdraw her and >> she qualified for the ballot. >> Does she want to opine on it? That's not how this >> she would liberation works. So it would
be it's it's on there we put it and then the citizen would withdraw it. >> So at town meeting is the point at which we would make that change. I've spoken to KP about this. We would >> so we could we could end up having two votes about it. >> No, we would not have two votes. We would indefinitely postpone or after she
knows that we have acted on it, she would then go up and withdraw. Otherwise, you would put people in the position of qualifying with citizen petition, leading them to believe that it was going to be acted on and asking them to withdraw in advance and then we pull we rug. So they they're both there
and then only after action is taken >> would she >> uh as the lead sponsor withdraw or the body itself could indefinitely postpone with a brief description from um whoever the moderator is in the future
about um >> what a circus jumping through >> about how to how to move forward silly. >> Okay. So I I proposed >> motion I motion >> keep going. Yeah. Just >> I I motion to uh >> You want a motion to close the war?
>> So wait a second. So if you want a motion to So if you're motioning to close it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then what does that do as far as our votes on capital and on the budget? >> It's a separate thing, right? We always >> It's going to be totally separate and that won't go to print >> because it always is, right? I mean
>> it will go. First of all, it could go to print if we make them in time. If we make them because often we have had times where our motion it says select board supports four of five >> approval of prior bills >> 50. >> Um the
>> big >> the article um but we also have had instances where I have walked up to the moderator and told him we just voted on this 20 minutes ago and the mo and >> same yeah >> the Warren article has >> So Marilyn you're speaking to the recommendation of the down right?
>> Yep. >> Yeah. So, we still will do that and it will still appear in print if we are able to do it in time and if not the moderator will pull up the screen just like they traditionally do. Hopefully, we can talk to Ryan about that. Sorry to get a little bit off topic, but
has anybody talked to the potential future moderator about the the oldtown moderator used to hold these public sessions which a lot of people felt were helpful in years that were complicated. Is is >> we did not talk about that, but I I'll reach out to them. I'm not sure that this
was not the forum necessarily, Doug, but >> I'm not saying that you would do it now. I'm just saying that he might the potential future moderator might be hearing us. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, um just just I just wanted to point that out from earlier. So, Doug, did you want to make a motion because we
>> I so want to make a motion to close the warrant. >> Can we need to read something specific? >> Oh, yes. You need to read this, please. I move that say that it's my time >> to tell me to tell you to read that the second bullet. >> I move that the board vote to approve
the warrant as drafted subject to further revisions as to form by town council and the town administrator and inclusion of the finance committee message and final budget. >> Can I have a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I I >> wonderful.
Okay. Thank you, Doug, for that eloquent reading. We are now moving on uh to discussion and possible vote on the 2027 preliminary budget as updated. Again, the agenda says possible vote because
we're always going to say possible vote until we vote. Um but FinCom has not voted on the budget. Um I think it is their intention. And I spoke to Eric before this meeting and it is their intention to do so prior to
either the 27th or the 29th because Doug doesn't want to leave us apparently. Um and so then hopefully we could take a vote at that time. But I mean this is sort of the last space before fin votes
for us to have opinions. I mean obviously we can have opinions at any time but if we want them to be thought through and considered and brought into fincom's consideration we need to do it now. So if you have, you know, recommendations that you would
like to make that have not been brought to brought to the table already, I would suggest. >> And so what we included in the packet is the long range financial plan again because we sort of stretched out the information a little bit to show is it 25 and 26? >> Shows 26.
>> It's 26. um sort of to the left side and then to take the year-over-year increases out a couple decimal points so people can get a better understanding of you know >> three and a half looks a lot more frightening at four when we're in some of these numbers. So to make sure everyone understands exactly where we're
aiming um both for this year but also moving forward so we have something to be basing future long-range financial plans from. But we're also happy to answer broader or specific questions that you may have. So you go ahead. >> I was just going to say if anybody
hadn't hasn't watched the thing come from last Thursday I believe there was a lot of discussion about the projections and sort of where people found hope in a hopeless place and where there were wiggle rooms. It is a song. Yep. And
where there was wiggle room and where you know they sort of pulled a little bit back from doom and gloom. Um and tried to find some bright spots um in the projections. And so I think that is sort of the mentality that
that um led them to the place where possibly this might be the budget. Um whereas if the projections were not so great, maybe we would be looking at
where we could find additional um places. I think at this point it was discussed publicly at Fincom that we've we've cut to the bone and if if we need to cut bone we can but uh the
projections maybe allow people to feel a little bit more ease about it. >> I get the gist but I don't quite follow. Um >> do you want to just watch the meeting and then we'll talk about it on Monday? Where's the me where are the meetings listed?
>> The finance I want a one minute summary actually. Um >> go ahead. >> Those are those are recorded and available online. >> Yes. >> Aware. Yes. >> Income meetings. >> Could you Is there one that you can't locate? >> Thursday. >> Thursdays. If we could >> Okay.
>> Produce them for the entire board that would be great. >> With Joe. >> So >> Oh, go ahead. >> I don't know. So, I didn't see Thursday's meeting, but the fact that we're we're going to be asking for an override. We're asking for an override in 2029
because we're using all our unused levy in 26. So, we're saying to people, you actually are getting an override this year, but we don't need to do an override. We don't need your permission because we have unused levy and we're using how many dollars out of the unused
levy for that? We're using 1.7 and another 200,000 in levy capacity is leaving that is not spending. It's debt that is rolling off that we no longer have access to. >> Right. So what is it? 1.7 and then another subtraction.
>> Yeah, it's it's 1.8 total. >> Oh, right here. Thank you, D. >> Uh in the line that says unused levy capacity. >> 1.8. >> 1.8 total. >> So it's 1.6 and 200 rolling off. >> Wait, in 26 we're using 1.8. No, >> no. 27 27 first.
>> Got it. >> We're using 1.6, but it might say 1.8 because that also is reflecting the 200,000 in debt that rolls off, >> even though it's not being used to balance the budget to make sure we're all on the same page. And so what Katie was saying, uh,
so is the budget as it's listed here, what I'm understanding to say is that FINCOM, your gist from listening to that was that this was feeling more solid and you made a bunch of comments at the
beginning uh that amounted to still items in flux. Yeah. >> Yeah. No definitive move in any of the big items that's landed at this point. Health insurance, trash. >> The definitive move in health insurance is to come down from 14 and a half to
10. >> Well, that was that's been >> I know. But the final would be the census, correct? Which we would not go until the first of the very first week of May. >> Yeah. Um, so is that your sense, Patrick, that that's where I'm not asking you to definitively state what
the finance committee's opinion is, >> but that this is feeling more I we have a couple finance committee members here, but this is seeming like it's starting to land. >> Yeah, I think something that they had asked for when the budget was originally passed to finance committee was this
this forecast obviously. So having that in front of them and being able to look at the five-year outlook, I think that brought a little more comfort to the group just understanding where we're headed because that is the lens you have to then look through to see this year's
budget and what's appropriate. >> And I think that's why I was I wasn't completely computing because I think when we looked at this, I felt like that made us more uneasy. Um, and so that's why I wasn't like understanding that the finance committee was actually feeling better about this
year when they looked at this and saw the unused levy going away. Um, so that's why I >> we set them up. >> I feel like we're talking in riddles here. I got to tell you, because some some of us think it's bright or brighter, some think it's not.
>> We all seem like completely on 12 different pages. We do have some members of the finance committee here. Can anybody lend any clarity to >> They have not fin has not voted. So it would be inappropriate for an individual fin member at this point to say whether
or not Fincom will support it. So I hear what you're saying. >> No, I don't need to know if they support it. I just need to know if we're in a dire situation that we've been thinking we're in or if there is something that has significantly changed in the past week or so or whatever to make us think otherwise. >> Let me clarify because I think I maybe
overstated the hope piece. Okay. I think that in echoing what Patrick said, my gist of this was they could not determine whether 2027 was uh is the appropriate path forward
without seeing the projection. >> Once they saw the projection and realized maybe what levers are available to be pulled in future years, they felt like this would be a it's not a positive path forward. We're still in in it in the thick of it
>> and we will be in the thick of it for a while but there are mechanisms and levers to pull in to make sure that potentially I mean one of the board members had said well maybe we could get away with not using an override at all. So like guess that's conjecture because
who knows what will happen in 29 30 31 but so that's my I guess my concern is that we're all sitting here with individual thoughts some positive some not some neutral and we're confusing anybody that might be listening because
we don't really know definitively anything right you're thinking maybe it's a little bit rosier Mary Ellen thinks it's as dire if not worse I don't know what to I think Patrick doesn't know really. None of us do. I mean, so we're all waiting for FINCOM and I just
don't want to give incorrect information out to people because we don't really know yet. >> Danielle, I that's my >> I'm just looking at numbers. I'm looking at numbers that have been provided by our town account, our town administrator. And in 2029, we're
looking at a deficit, which means we would need an override. So 29, 30, 31. And we're not in a better zone until we get to >> never >> 32. No, no, no, no, no, no. We do get
we're in a better situation once the unfunded um liability is is cleared. It gets a little bit better. Plus, we also will have we'll have additional revenues coming in. But do we have a revenue sheet, a forecasted revenue sheet? >> I haven't seen that coming
>> because this just assumes the 425 all the way through. Yeah, I think that's a problem. So, what we talked about >> and I think but just really briefly, this is a snapshot. >> Yeah. >> Based on conservative estimates, especially for revenue, >> but also doing our best to bend expenditures
>> in the right direction. We do not want to balance something by saying we expect all $750,000 of new development to hit in a single year to make it look like 29's really not that hard. The goal here is that this is something I can come
back with you with Patrick in July, in October, and then through budget season every year to show where we are, and you'll be able to compare it to where we where our assumptions were wrong because this will be available to everyone to see. >> These are really conservative. I'm I'm
just admitting it on the especially on the revenue. Yeah. because we do not want to balance our budget on rosy >> right >> pictures as we get closer to each individual fiscal year. My hope and what I would anticipate is that the numbers if they're a deficit will grow lower.
They may or may not to your point Mary Ellen close all the way. I don't want to promise any particular year other than the one that we're in. And to Mary Ellen's point, this is the second year in a row of deficit spending already, >> right, >> by using excess levy. So like we are in this cycle where we've been doing it.
What we talked about a little bit at FINCOM was the idea that we do need to bend expenditures to try to skip along as long as we can with any excess levy or to get closer to the point that Mary Ellen and I think Doug were both getting at where when you get to the end of the funding schedule we still have
maintenance funding for um our pension but there is a little bit of breathing room. That being said, even there, like we we move it immediately to OPB and that's one of the things that FINCOM's like, h maybe you don't want to do that for sure. That's the d the direction that we'll get from you all as we get
closer to that. But we think it's reasonable and responsible to say we are going to move that over to OPED in our forecasts for now because at some point we have to be funding OPED. >> We can't and we cannot go at the 50,000 or nothing at all. Right? >> That cannot continue forever. So there's
it's both rosy and dire, >> right? So there's been no real significant change since last week. No. Safe to say. >> No, I think the significant change was people and I'm speaking for FINCOM just based on being in there felt that they had more context and color around how we had we had arrived at our decisions for
recommendations to you all. >> Okay. >> And now there's something where we're, you know, it's a snapshot, but we're showing what where we were, where our thinking was when this came forward. and we're more than more than happy to be told we really want you to do X or Y with revenue or an expenditure that this
starts to inform longer term planning and that's that's the only real goal with it. It is not meant to say a year from now >> that you all come back and say you guys were so wrong because we'll have told you in July and October we were wrong or things are trending in a direction that we did not anticipate when we spoke. >> Right. So,
>> so we're still basically waiting for direction from FITC comp if >> their final determination certainly on the 27 budget for sure. >> Okay, great. Thank you. >> Sorry for making that more complicated than I know. >> I think Mariela might have questions. Sorry.
>> Uh, no. I mean, I just I I just I look at this and without having a little bit better projections on what revenue is going to be and just looking at the 425, I I'd like to have better projections on the on what the revenue is going to look
like. >> What is because at least in my mind, I can say, okay, well, here's the 425. Should be able to hit the 425, but we're also going to have, you know, this and this hit. But even with anything big, we're not going to have anything hit.
Like the soonest we would have hit over in Vinnon Square, for example, the new buildings, they're not going to hit until 2029 on the two buildings that you see going in right now because you have to remember the assessed value is a year
a year behind. >> We we anticipate assessing as a practice when any construction goes vertical going forward. We are not waiting for a project to be complete to do the assessment. What is complete on July 1st of any fiscal year will be what we are
asking the assessor to go in and assess the value for and that has not that is reasonable and done across the state. It has not been the practice here. >> Okay. So it's incre to your point we don't get it all until next year but we get incre incremental growth in the interim so
that we are capturing that increase in value >> and I think Mary Ellen from the revenue piece the part I struggle with is if we project certain things happening in c certain years and then they don't but the projection what was was relied on to
make a determination for the current year then you put yourself into a pickle where people then feel like, well, we we agreed to this because we thought that and now you're saying that isn't true, >> right? But I think just having it just
having it, you know, having some type of understanding of what you're looking at is helpful. I mean, we should have it. We should have an idea, >> right? You don't have, you know, I guess maybe you don't even have to put it on the sheet. >> I was just on a separate sheet. You should not Sorry. I was confused. as an
appendices. Maybe we could just list out the upcoming potential projects that we think >> we presented it a few meetings ago and it's a total of under a million in new growth >> based on the big projects that does not account for tear downs and rebuilds and all the things that people do to improve their >> okay
>> commercial and residential properties in town but just those big projects it's like a three big chunks that add up to I think it's 800 and something thousand but we will absolutely just include it as a a worksheet that we print along with this it's a good idea Okay.
>> Yeah. And it's just the use of the unused levy. And you know, I know it upsets people when I say I am not in support of a school sitting the school sitting on a cash revolving fund when we're dipping into when we're dipping into our unused levy.
>> So, I know the hot revolving has come up a lot, but is there a motion you would like us to entertain related to it at this point? because I think we've like it feels a little bit like we live have litigated it. But if if you'd like to make a motion. >> No, I don't I haven't thought of a motion.
>> I'd have to think about one. >> All right. Um, >> are we talking about capital next? >> We can. Is everybody else all set for? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Capital. On to capital. Where is
where are we at with this track? It's been upgraded from a C to a B based on the CIC conversation um this week that I was on with Nick and um so that they have upgraded their from see nice to
have to be strongly recommend. Is that what >> they did hear from a couple of um residents that were on the call as well with comments about the track. >> So they were they reassess that. >> Is that what the yellows mean? Changes.
>> Yes. They also discussed uh Burl Street um as well as the police station fencing which you'll notice are both highlighted. And Nick, I think you were doing something with the vehicles. >> Yes. So the idea with the vehicles that we will reflect in the final version is
that right now there's three. There's one at fire and then two with DPW and um >> facilities. We heard what you said. It was only last week, but about the idea that we should do a a more in-depth utilization. So what we would like to do
is keep one $50,000 vehicle on this in case there's a Glintstone moment where a vehicle needs to be replaced cuz something fell out. But the idea is we may not even use it because we want to engage in that utilization study to really understand what the needs are uh prior to making any expenditure. But we
don't want to be in a situation where we have a catastrophic failure and no ability to address it. >> So I honestly don't you'd have to explain to me what ve why would we need a $50,000 vehicle? Why wouldn't we just use a $30,000 electric Chevy Volt?
Something like that. I don't >> like why do we need 50,000 where I think 30,000 does does the trick? >> Well, >> well, one of them is the DPW director, right? And I think there is there are times
>> Yeah, that's diff, >> you know, if that vehicle would be the Flintstone moment. >> Yeah. Right. >> Something traumatic happens to it, that vehicle does require it to be more than a Chevy Volt. It it it appears to me is
that >> Would you agree with that state? >> I would agree with that one. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, what about just where are all these vehicles? >> I'm just thinking, you know, floods and, you know, all sorts of things, right? So, >> yeah. >> Cars and floods don't mix.
>> Oh, that's true, too. I was thinking about height, but >> dangerous. Hold on here. >> Floods. I I guess, you know, I think that police station fencing and improvements. I think I think this can this can wait it out. That's my opinion.
>> Which one's that? The fencing. >> Yeah, >> the fencing. >> Which went down to AB? >> I guess I'm looking at I'm looking at it that my opinion is we have to have this track and it's a facility that I think the town
needs. It's it's a facility that the town needs and uses. So that's this. So I'm just going over my opinion. >> Does your hope to sort of not necessarily dollar for dollar but get as close to saving by pushing out or eliminating project value? >> Yes. >> Upon that.
>> If I go ahead to say it more specifically uh now that they've ranked the projects, what are they actually asking? >> Because there's not a total total here. >> At the very top there. Yes. So the
there's $480,000 in C-ranked projects. There's 1.6528110 in B-ranked projects, which a million of that includes the track. >> I think for our conversations and purposes, we've made it very clear that that is actually an A rank project. And
so I, if the board will indulge me, I will venture to say the B-ranked projects for us are $652,810 and the A ranked projects are 6,6,725,000 because we are I mean I think this board has made it clear that the track is an
I. >> I certainly think that CIC heard that loud and clear. Yes. And I think that FINCOM has heard that the select board's priority is certainly that as well. >> Okay. So then is it is it what's the
exercise for us right now? Are we literally looking at C projects and saying this is actually a next year project or are we like I'm just trying to take the temperature of my >> you had the opportunity to go back to the school department and see if any of their items are ones that can be pushed
out. I was I was going to say say that a few minutes ago. Jason and I communicated earlier today about connecting to go go through the prioritization again see if there are things that they can push out. >> The the caution that both FINCOM and CIC
has mentioned that we're not these are still you know nice have must have you know there's still things that we anticipate coming forward at some point. So it's not that we're saving this money forever. It's just trying to figure out the things that we can live with. or things we need now and could live
without in the near term. And so Jason and I were going to talk about that tomorrow. We didn't have time this afternoon because of my calendar. >> Right. Because the B's basically are the two school projects. >> The flooring. >> Yeah. >> The flooring. >> Flooring and the space room, middle school classroom, >> middle school classroom space improvements.
>> And I would just assume anything that is like construction adjacent right now, the the projection is just to increase. We're only talking about a year from now. I mean, >> yeah, but you know, >> so like are you really sa what are we
really saving by moving it to next year is all I'm trying to say because if it ends up being if it's a $250,000 project that ends up costing another $100,000. >> Sure, you can make that argument about everything though, right? I mean, you know, >> that's okay.
>> There's a savings and the interest if nothing else per year. So, >> right. It's the middle school. >> All right. So, you're going to be talking to the >> Jason >> superintendent.
>> And you changed the vehicle from 100 to 50. >> Did we update? I didn't know if we >> did. It's not updated. It will be. >> I can do that because fire It's actually going to be less >> push fire out >> cuz fire would be fire is getting pushed >> everything one vehicle for 50 the other
50 on that 100 and the fire 90 whatever 92 >> that will also push for now so that we can actually complete a utilization study and be able to say next year we come back to you all CIC and fin here's what we need here's why here's the usage
so that it's no longer the point that's been made this year well it's falling apart we can't do anything and we a like vehicle. We're going to actually look at it and figure out a process moving forward for future requests. >> Um I missed that, but that's okay. Uh I'm
taking note of the fact um that the high school paving and solar canopy went down, I think, from something to something. >> What? >> It's a C. Um, so this was per my question in the beginning. Uh,
we're going to apply for a grant for something that now we're not prioritizing. The conversation revolved around the net benefit with the inflation reduction act changing and
just very broadly the it's a unknown quantity from the government side what we're going to be getting. Um Max has said repeatedly that the goal here is to do the technical assistance which I think if I'm not mistaken is 150 of that 300 >> right that's
>> um so that we can move forward and be prepared to go into the climate leaders program for that significant slug of money. >> The request of CIC was that we get more information on the payback with a more negative view of potential government support beyond the climate leaders
program. basically >> because without IRA without the inflation reduction >> I get I get that part >> okay I'm sorry >> but you still you're still saving money on energy later um there's all sorts of credits and all that stuff that may or
may not be happening I get that part you're still saving money on the energy load long term so I thought we were all very aligned on this and this is quite shocking to me that this is the direction taken, especially since
the 150 doesn't seem like it's going to cover everything that's necessary to do the study. And now if we don't allocate anything, we're going to apply for a grant and not have the money to actually do the study. They requested more information >> from Max
>> from Max. This is the rankings of the CIC. It is not the decision of the finance committee. Yeah, I'm just trying to follow make sure I'm understanding if I'm missing something in the logic here. >> No, >> no, I think they're waiting for more clarification from Max. >> Yeah, >> that's why they have it graded that way.
>> Are we really clear on what the what the um grants like what what the return we these rebatement the the rebates that we got at the elementary school those different programs? I forgot. I think there were there were two programs. I think there's one still in effect. Are we really clear on what those programs
are? because we got a significant amount of money back and if we turn around and we don't do something and we don't get that money >> I think to Nick's point everything is evolving and a lot of those programs have gone away at the federal level there still are potentially national
grid that was a big or two sources right >> uh so there still are national grid and you know that may be evolving too for sure I understand there's uncertainty in terms of those grants and you know uh rebates and tax credits and all that stuff >> Ryan has his hand up just
>> we're really not supposed to >> be interested. >> I know, but he probably has valuable information. >> Patrick, can you hear from CIC? >> Do we have any Do we have any money left in any of those grants? >> It's up to you all. >> Yeah, I'm asking. >> Uh, which grants are you referring to >> on any of those um electricity, you
know, the stuff that we got from National Grid and >> So, those funds were were spoken for already. I think we've talked about that. >> Yeah. Thank >> Yes. We >> Yeah, we used everything. >> Yeah. So, they go towards the budget last year with that million bucks,
>> right? >> Sorry for the editorial, Patrick. >> No, it's okay. >> Um, I'll just add because I was at the capital improvement committee meeting and this was something that they had asked me to go back to Max previously and get information regarding which is the big
blur you see plopped in in the sheet there. Um, and although the project is of interest, I think they reduced the ranking because with grant funding there's opportunity and risk. So if you spend money now to do design and then you don't get an award for construction
later, obviously the return on constructing the canopy may not be beneficial versus what it would cost to do. >> I think that was a factor. To state that another way, your advocacy for the program would be useful in them understanding that that is a risk that's
>> that we're >> we're willing to take that we can design something and if we don't get climate leaders in year one, we can have it ready to go when we buy the next round, the next pond, the next year of funding, whatever it is that that they're doing. >> The other way to say it is if we don't
do the study, we're never going to get the million dollar. >> That would that was actually said at the CIC. I don't remember who said it, but someone did. I mean this those the exact words we may not get it next year but we'll never get it in the future if we don't >> is that we we don't want to put the time and energy into the pre-work for the
grant funding so we don't get the grant and then we criticize people for not getting the grant and then they come forward to do the pre-work and then we criticize them for the pre-work so we're in this circle marggo round of sort of >> yeah I to the surprise of of no one here I will strenuously
>> Doug will sing at least fund this item, right? >> That's exactly what I was going to say. Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Voluntarily. We'll send him a letter >> right after the Glover. Yeah. Right. Um >> um so um yeah, I think if I'm
understanding this correctly that it was going to cost $300,000 to do this study. The potential grant is 150. >> So our kind of matching basically would be really 150. Um, so you know, just so
the 300 doesn't, you know, uh, surprise anyone or scare anyone away. It's really 150 is our net cost to doing that. That's the risk is the 150. Basically, we wouldn't spend anything if we didn't get the 150 grant. If we get the 150, we're going to spend another We're going to spend 150. That's really what we're
risking. um but to be ready for a $1 million grant. >> All the work we did, the whole, you know, you know, a big part of the climate action plan was built around doing exactly this and major buildings
and they're the major source. Do I have to go through all this? No, you don't. Of course I don't. Okay. Yes. All right. >> Noted. Yep. So, so >> I move that that's an egg. >> I get it. >> I Why is it 300 and not 150? Like it
feels a little fictitious. >> Well, it it always gets put in as the gross, right? >> Oh, the full amount and then the mechanism of funding is 150 through grant, 150 through this. Yes. >> In many cases, they're reimbursement grants. After they're expended, we get it back type of thing as well.
>> Okay. Got it. >> We always find the full amount. >> Yes. We had a similar discussion just for everyone's benefit around Earl Street that >> yes >> there is a number in here but when the co is executed or issued rather the
payment will be coming back so the net cost to the town for that is covered by the um the revenue that is generated. So that was a similar discussion where we were talking about the short-term sort of risk of having it >> the money spent but knowing that it will never turn into the long-term debt or be
bonded with other things that way. >> So are we uh is anyone joining me in that um formal >> I join you I join you >> direction today >> and I think it's shortsighted if we
don't do that. >> Great. So, are you voting on that or >> do you want us to do you want us to just as adopted or what? >> Well, you know what? The only thing that I'm concerned with I I would really like to hear what Ryan has to say about that.
You know, I Nothing personal, Doug, but I'm just hearing one side. And >> I think he just came off of you. >> He did. Ryan, >> hey folks, >> how are you this? >> Uh, thanks everyone. Uh, enjoying the show so far. So just to recap um the
discussion I think what's been said is is accurate that the the committee uh agreed that the risk um so we love the economics of the PV investment. We love the opportunity to to take capital
dollars to reduce our future operating expense. Um the reason we we lowered the relative priority of the uh canopy project was was because the risk of either not receiving the funding
or that the economics of the uh the actual canopy construction would not be as as as kind of juicy as it might be today. So, we're all for appropriating money uh as long as the language is contingent on
um receiving the grant to offset the cost. >> Agreed. >> So, moved. >> Yeah. Great. >> GL. >> So, that's my motion. >> Okay. >> Can I get a second?
>> Second. All in favor of making sure that this is an A and that the language in this reflects that but for the but for the grant funding this will not be funded. >> All in favor? >> Yes.
>> I >> I >> Okay, great. >> That is consider that a settled. Um, so then again I sort of go back to the original question which is like are we I was just looking for a motion
to approve the C like >> I think from from our sim it will ultimately be approved by as well so that you can opine on that. I think it could change the prioritization from 27 to 28 based on the conversation that Jason and I have if there are items that
they would like to keep on the plan, but they can make it through FY27 without. >> Mhm. >> Um he did not talk about a number or particular projects. He just said if you could send over the most recent version that the two of us should connect so that we can see if there are projects that make sense for them to push out.
Okay. >> So that's information I can share with you. We will both share with VINCOM. that can be part of the future discussion. >> I think the big thing is, >> you know, how do we fit in this track? >> So, I think as long as Jason knows,
we're trying to do everything we can to fit this track in here. >> But I don't I don't I mean, it's not like we have a fixed ceiling, right? I mean, you know, there's obviously we can't just spend willy-nilly, but you know, e even if even if you included all A, B, and C, that's 7 million,
>> right? Okay. What is it? We do have a We do have a cap. >> We have a policy to stay below 10% with debt, right, Patrick? >> Yep. 10% of budget, >> right? And so what's the number? >> So if everything in FY27 is passed, we'd
be at like 9.9 >> um as the budget proposal sits today. So we're walking the line. It was the same case last year and the year prior. Um, and so what I said to the capital
improvement committee and the finance committee was, you know, the decisions that you make now will affect capacity to do other things in those out years. There's a lot of competing priorities. So, as you're looking at the items in the plan for 27, yes, we'll meet our policy now. There's a lot of things that
we know that are out there that are big chunky things. Um, especially when you look at projects that are on the larger side but may not go for a debt exclusion, those have to fit within our our levy limit to fund. >> Is that the DPW? >> Um, DPW, I had that planned on the
schedule as a potential debt exclusion. It's $15 million building construction. >> Okay. >> Um, I think that is a reasonable expectation, but there are other things out there. But I I think too when we when we talk about that number though, I think I don't know
if this is helpful for anybody else, but I back out that 750,000 between the 600 and the 150 from the grant >> because really that is >> what we're looking >> right that that is what we don't have an alternate funding source for. That would be paid down.
>> It's just we want to stay away from 10% is where we we want to stay away from that 10%. >> We're not even close though. I mean you're right. >> You said 9.9 >> with us. >> Well, we're at seven, right? Yeah, we're seven. No, no, no. This $7 million >> 7 million >> puts us in the high nines to stay under 10%.
>> Yeah, but the budget's 88. >> It's It's all the debt service needs to be 10% or less. >> The debt service >> of the budget, >> right? The budget's 88. So 10% would be 8.8 >> minus minus the debt service. >> Minus the debt service. >> Yes.
>> So what is the number we need to be at for capital? >> Okay. >> To be comfortable or within within range. I >> is there a number? >> I think we might have crossed signals here. So the raw number of 7 million is not that's the cost of these projects.
That's not the borrowing cost. >> Right. >> Right. It's the borrowing cost that needs to stay below 10% that we will be at 99 or 98 wherever we are and we have been for the last couple of years if we were to fund all of these projects. >> Got it. Got it. >> And so that then that borrowing cost added in would be what would get us
close. And the point that I'm not sure who just made like the 750 of that would never make it into that bonded longer term debt, right? But that's still not >> that's not going to >> keep us from going over 10% in the long run. >> Is it our gross borrowing numbers, you
know, our entire gross borrowing dollars versus our yearly borrowing dollars? So the metric in the financial policies is total debt service excluded and non-excluded as a percentage of budget. >> Okay, >> does that make sense?
>> So that's our policy and then the rating agencies also stick pretty closely to that >> 10%. >> So they're monitoring our liabilities. They're monitoring our existing debt, >> our debt plans. They're looking at liabilities like OPED and pension and
what we're doing to address those. Those are really big things they look at. >> And then the 10% is the debt service. >> Yes. >> Right. So we're we're really talking about apples and oranges here. Yeah. >> Because we're talking about $7 million. I didn't fully get what when you said it, but >> that feeds into the debt service.
>> Feeds into the debt service. It has nothing to do with this 7 million. It's the >> the lower here, the lower the number we put in. >> Additional 500,000 of interest on this 77 million. >> But is there a number we should be shooting for here? Well, >> it sounds like >> so if we're under 10% it's a number that
you all would decide on your own. It's like that's why that's the idea of looking at a five-year plan is to say like we anticipate these other bigger chunkier things that are going to fall into just normal borrowing. So, it's yes and no. I don't mean to >> Well, no, but I think there's a little
bit more clear answer possibly to Danielle's question is that when you made that comment, Patrick um about 9.8 8 9.9 or whatever. Were you assuming all A, B, and C? >> Yes. >> Okay, there we go. Okay, so even with
all A, B, and C, there >> we're still technically under >> but barely. >> Right. >> Okay. >> Right. >> Correct. >> Got it. >> So the direction it the direction they need is do we want to take something out or are we comfortable at that? Even though we're at almost the ceiling
of the policy, >> I would like to see the result of what you can figure out >> with the school department that could come out. Okay. >> Before we vote >> and and I I I know this is going to make some people happy, some people crazy. Um >> please don't do it.
>> I just want vehicles. Um the uh so clearly the fire >> the 92 is coming out and 50 >> Oh, the 92 is coming out. Yes. >> And then 50 of the 100 on the other page will come out. So it's $140,000 savings.
>> But the hund the cruiser and cruiser laptop and rate are staying that's staying. >> Police is on a they already have their own mechanism by which to evaluate vehicles. Is that right, Nick? >> Yeah. And there's a replacement schedule that they are on and we do everything we can to fund on a that is really one
where like we don't do it this year. just means >> I just wanted to be clear on the road. >> And the EV policy applies, >> correct? >> All right, let's um >> Did we have some discussion last week
about somehow um documenting this borrow street money >> or somehow >> Oh, yeah. You did. >> Didn't we want some type of documentation to solidify to codify what we're allocating.
>> Did you ever get a chance to look into that? >> Yeah. >> Process by which >> I did. Yeah, I did look into it a little bit. >> So, um I believe the funds that we were talking about was base rent from Pine Street Project. >> Yes. >> We would receive
>> in the the language it's like 1.5. Um, so that would be accounted for as um would be treated as sale of land proceeds. You're doing a 99-year ground lease. It's a disposition that goes into a segregated account. It would first be
used to extinguish, you know, any debt that was incurred to acquire the property that resulted in the payment. We don't have any of that because of how we funded it. Um, so then that money would be available for appropriation for any purpose for which a town is authorized to borrow money
for. So really any capital project >> in the capital budget. >> Yeah. >> You said which is where this is coming from now. The 600,000 is coming from right now. >> Right. But there was supposed to be a specific designated account set up per a vote
that we took in December. That's what we asked you guys to >> go find >> in December. That's what someone mentioned. It was December >> 24. December of 24. >> Okay. Yeah. I >> we were setting aside this money solely
for the purpose of you know refurbishing 89 borrow it was supposed to be that's what we had agreed on. >> Yeah. >> So let Patrick did exactly what I asked. Let me call Tom and ask about the sale of real estate because seller real estate
account is something that is part of state law. I'm not sure that a vote can redirect it. >> I mean we had run this through KP. This was not like >> then it'll be a quick answer for me from Tom. Let me just talk to him. If we need to
>> even though I just argued in the opposite need to reopen and close >> then we will do >> Monday we can reopen. >> I'll have the answer tomorrow. If especially if it's something they've already looked at, he'll just go back into the record and share with me. >> Great. because I I had asked Patrick
>> flow through this before we can >> I mean I'm sure we can set something up but I wonder >> if it has to throw flow through the >> sale of real estate >> sale of real estate fund first and then it goes in and then you're saying it can go capital but I but maybe it
>> yeah my my thought my my view just not knowing the exact language of the select board vote is that the state would treat that money a certain way it would go into this account that I'm referring to and then it would be subject to appropriation Yeah, that's that's what we talked about in December is that even though we can
make, you know, we can say what we want, it's town meeting that has to appropriate the money. >> That's my my >> But hasn't already been appropriated. >> We had to put the >> No, we will be the sixth in this. >> We didn't appropriate it. >> No, we couldn't town meeting. >> We're just setting up this account in in
>> right in anticipation >> voting that town meeting. We wanted town meeting to vote on >> approving this account >> so that the money would go dedicated to that. >> Okay. So, let's get some more information so we can have clear direction on what we did in December of
24 and uh how we can move forward to do to solidify that if we can and if we cannot how we can honor the spirit of the vote even if state law precludes us from creating a fund. how we can do our best
to get to the spirit of the vote. >> Please. >> Got it. From the sale of real estate, it's easy to just say that that's how we're funding that capital artic that part of the capital budget. That's that's the easy part to understand everything else is what we will look at tomorrow. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. I mean, just to be uh super clear about it, >> dy >> just to be dugy about it. >> There will be new people here and they may have different priorities and there will be new environments and everything else. And this was a very uh um this was
a semi-healing moment of uh that a long desperate chapter. >> Go backwards. >> So okay. >> Um >> yeah. >> Okay. >> I'll be happy to spearhead it in the absence of in your absence because I do
remember it the same way you do and we did make a commitment and I want to make sure we honor it. So >> yes. Thank you. Okay, so that concludes the discussion on the capital improvement plan. Thank you, Ryan, for chiming in. Um the
consent agenda, I I have a request to remove the minutes again from the consent agenda. So it is just the approval of the hawker pedaller license for Sunun. Um if anybody has any questions, otherwise I'll entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda as amended. >> So moved.
>> Second. All in favor? >> I >> I >> Okay. Um, so select board report and comments before we move into executive session. >> So what are we going to do about another meeting? >> What are we going to do about another
meeting, Doug? >> Yeah. Well, >> about what? >> Why do we need another meeting? >> Oh, cuz Doug doesn't want to leave us. >> Yeah. >> He's having regret. >> Um, >> I mean, the reason we had to meet this week was because of school vacation. >> Mhm. >> Next week. So really Monday would be the
only um the 27th would be sort of like the best next day because we need a couple of things to happen to make that meeting >> needy productive. >> Um so uh in lie of meeting on the 29th
we could meet on the 27th and it would be plus five one more time encore. Or why not just meet on the 29th? >> Because it it seems like most of our colleagues who are won't be here feel
like they have want to finish some business. >> Okay. >> So, um I think we could honor that respect unless somebody has a conflict on the 27th. >> Um we can discuss offline, but we I think we will strive to honor that
request if that works for you. Gentlemen works for you. >> Okay. Um, does anybody else have any additional select board time? >> Um, I do. I had office hours on Saturday
and um, a gentleman had asked me if the town and the schools have an endowment or a uh, some type of a um, way in which you can donate money. myself what he was bringing up is in the event he was
writing his will and he wanted to leave money like to pay for half of a track do we have a mechanism set up like that so um I know Jason Kishman had said something to me about he wanted to do something like that so I did email him asking him did he does he have that in
place but I didn't hear back from him so could you reach out to him and find out then I can contact that gentleman and does the if somebody wants to leave something to the town like in a will or to make a donation. >> Mhm.
>> Are we set up is a town um considered a tax write off? >> I would consult a tax professional for that. We don't give tax advice to individuals. >> Right. But it's the right answer. >> But if the town had an endowment or
something set up like a like an endow 501c3, people could make donations. Uh so I don't think we would have a 501c3. I know that the library as an example received a donation of was it
stock or options from an individual. They can name the town. I we would not set up a nonprofit to receive it. We would just receive it. I think if they had a restriction that they would like and this is the end of my legal advice. If they had a restriction that put on it. Yeah. This is not legal advice.
>> Better. This is not legal advice. If someone has a restriction they would like to put on how the money is spent when it's given to us, they should speak to their attorney to have it drafted that way. >> So I'm just on the other side though. I'm just thinking should we be proactive and find out is there a way you know
should we have something should we have something set up where if people want to make a donation that it benefits I mean private schools have endowments private schools have you know ways in which people can contribute
money to a baseball field whatever they want um I'm just trying to >> I think an endowment and a sponsorship for a field are different things and it goes back to my first meeting when >> we talked about the benches. >> If someone is giving money for refurbishment and we're honoring that
gift and philanthropy with a name or a plaque, >> it is time limited. >> It does not last forever and that process is something that we can absolutely work on. An endowment would be completely different because we're talking about capital projects that require continued investment over time.
If we're talking about a tracker, >> I mean, I think >> there there is a there is a foundation, the Swanson Education Foundation, and it is coming back into uh >> I don't know like it fizzled out for a little bit and now it's coming back. There are two individuals who are running it. I'll get you their names,
Mary Ellen. And this person could reach out to this foundation to endow their work. >> People could also gift things to the schools. They do it all the time. >> They do it all the time. >> They accept them all the time. So, >> but is that a the question has got to be is that a tax write off? >> That's for their tax.
>> That's for their tax professional to understand, not for us to answer. >> Maybe ask the school department. >> No, don't ask the school department. It is for their tax professional to answer. We cannot answer that question because if we answer improperly and they make action based on that improper legal advice, then we will be held liable. So,
it is best they consult their own tax professional. If they if that tax professional determines it is and they would like to make a donation to the school, I I've seen donations come forward for robotics teams and very specific, you know, very specific things and the school committee takes um >> donations
>> takes those donations in public so that people are aware that it's occurring. So the answer is we don't know and yes if they want to donate we will absolutely take it but we cannot comment on whether or not it is a tax there are tax
ramifications. >> Anybody else? >> Yeah just just real quick. I know we're talking about having another meeting um on the 27th. Um, but in the event that we don't, uh, I just want to take, uh, a few moments, uh, tonight and I just want
to recognize and thank my, uh, my colleague, Doug Thompson, uh, for his, uh, for his three years of service, uh, on the select board. Um, you know, Doug uh Doug showed uh two of the things tonight uh that I had uh I had marked up
uh for him. Uh his advocacy for uh for climate action uh and really uh pushing a lot of those projects forward um is is certainly most appreciated and uh his advocacy for uh for veterans uh you know has has been uh has been consistent
these last uh last few years. Uh certainly his um his advocacy to save the Glover. I mean at at times it was it was he uh you know he was standing there um it was it was him with John Leman and uh and Nancy Schultz and it was that was
it was really uh it was really it. you've you've you've you've built um you have really built this organization and and and really positioned uh this to the the Glover to to succeed and to
survive and uh you know, thank you thank you to that. Um but last but certainly not least, uh you know, you're leading the uh leading the way for uh for bringing the Community Preservation Act to Swarmskit is is something that is going to uh to really um to really be
seen the positive impacts for uh for decades to come. So I just want to say thank you, Doug, and I wanted to say that your work mattered. >> Thank you. Thank you very much, David. Um I um one of the reasons that I wanted to make sure that we had another meeting
is that uh and I hope by the fact you saying you're not sure if we're going to have another meeting doesn't mean you're not going to show up. >> Uh uh your your your speech is coming in. So >> also David, you uh had a hand in the CPA too. I know Doug barely took the reigns,
but you for sure participated and made sure that it came to fruition. Um >> actually I'd like to even correct David was the godfather of it. Uh for sure uh the grandfather the the the beginning. Um so yes um it would not have happened
without him. Um, I'll save my comments for the next meeting because there is a next meeting and I will um give two other uh public service announcements which is I don't know if you all follow the Swam Scout
Little League on um Facebook but I do even though my kids don't play Little League and um Reagan Kag Kag Kajano of the Reds threw a complete game no hitter with 10 strikes in her team season
opener. >> Um, so I just want to recognize Reagan. >> Wow. >> Um, yeah, in the opener. I mean, what a season this will be if that's how her debut. And I also would like to recognize
um, Sergeant Brendan Reed, who um, re I'm sorry, Sergeant Kevin Re. Sorry, they must get that a lot. um who was off duty and was um called on by a neighbor who believed their home
was being broken into and step to action. um was able to uh take the uh to I don't know help whatever he did he did his job when he didn't have to to be honest and it just
shows the character of um helping a neighbor um and continuing to do his job even when it's supposed to be his day off. So, want to appreciate and um lift him up uh as a stellar community member
for this uh select board time. So, thank you Reagan and Kevin. At that, if anybody else doesn't have anything, we will entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> Nope. Oh, >> motion enter into executive session.
>> Oh, I lied. Okay. I'm sorry. Thank you for the reminder. We typically don't >> not coming back to public. >> Okay. So we will say again >> the motion >> the motion >> that we have listed we're going to move to the conference room. >> Okay. So >> we'll be coming back to the public. >> Okay. So the motion will be to move into executive session pu pursuant to mass
general law se uh chapter 30A section 21A7 to comply with or act under the authority of any general or special law or federal grant in aid requirements. Proposed seven. the open meeting law um as general law section 30 chapter 30A
subsection 22FG to approve and review the select board executive session meeting minutes from the following dates March 2nd 2026 and April 2nd 2026 where votes may be taken. So I will take the motion we will approve the motion and then we will move
y to conference >> back to public session >> and we will not be entering back into public session. >> So moved. >> Can I have a second? >> Second. Oh. Uh, does this have to be a roll call? No. >> Let's just roll call it just in case. Mary Alan. >> Hi. >> Danielle. >> Hi. >> David. >> Hi. >> Doug.
>> Hi. >> And I have an eye. Okay. >> Let's move.