##VIDEO ID:w_W9JahzAgM## e e e e e e okay okay welcome to the February 5th select board meeting and um this meeting is being recorded if you could please oh but before I start I just want to say uh thank you to Nate Bine Nathan Kent and Joel duette for taking care of bringing this recording out to everybody um if you could please join us for the pledge allegiance the United States of America stands one nation God indivisible liy and justice for all David could I have those yes so this is always a an exciting time for us because we get to honor um swamp Scot's local Scouts and tonight we have the Girl Scouts with us and these are a special group of Girl Scouts these are the silver medal Awards and so tonight we want to honor them and what I'm going to do is just let's put out your I'm G to call you all down here if that's okay so we have summer Pierce Sophia Armstrong Angley Miller and Alicia Lupi if you girls if you wouldn't mind if you could just um introduce yourselves and then just tell us what your projects were okay I am summer Pierce and for our project me and Alesia um at the traffic triangle in Walker and Sheridan we took out the existing plants and replace them with native plants because it's better for the animals that are around in the native pollinators uh for me and Sophia's project we uh passed bylaw to with plastic uh to uh Tupperware for like um when you're like ordering tank out to like alleviate some of it and also with trash pickup I'm Alesia and for me and Summer's project we took out bad plants to help the animals and Community for me and andle's project we have um starting in the summer be more trash pickups especially by the coast where the trash is constantly overflowing and can go into the beach where it can harm the wildlife there awesome hold on one second girls we might have a technical we all right okay so does anybody do we have any questions from the board no great work girls really impressive honestly thank you I know all the work that invol that is involved I used to work for the Girl Scout so it's incredible what you did congratulations I just have one question we are going to be um putting up a plaque inside town hall that has um every Scout who has achieved an eagle scout award in swamp Scot and a Gold Award in swamp Scot so what does it take to get from silver to gold and is that something that you'll be working towards uh yes silver is the second highest award you can earn in Girl Scouts and me and Sophia are both going on to earn that and how long how long will that take uh in the next couple years probably like two to three because we're currently working on uh Journey which is something that you have to earn before we can start the process of our Gold Award all right great um before you leave can we just borrow those back so we can get Mr Thompson's autograph on them sorry I'll come over there I'm sorry and then I have one more question tonight tonight we read a proclamation for black history month and I was wondering if you girls wanted to read the proclamation all right dog do you have the Black History Month whereas February is Black History Month and we call upon the citizens and public and local officials of the town of Swampscott to honor the history and achievements of black Americans to reflect on the centuries of struggle that we have brought us to this historic moment of time to live up to the founding principles of our nation in the town of Swampscott that all the people are created equal and have the right to be treated equally throughout their lives and whereas this observance affords a special Community opportunity to become more knowledgeable about black Heritage and to honor black citizens who have contributed to swam Scott's economic cultural spiritual and political development and after the Civil War Exodusters migrated from the south and settled in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts they brought with them the desire for economic opportunities freedom from oppression and harassment and freedom to create their own lives these settlers played an important role in settling the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the town of swam Scot as well as the rest of the United States in 1915 Dr Carter Goodwin Woodson noted black scholar in the former enslaved African-Americans founded the association of the study of negro life and history which was later renamed the association for the study of African-American life and history and Dr Woodson initiated black history week February 12th 1926 for many years and the second week of February chosen to coincide with the birthdays of Frederick Douglas and Abraham Lincoln was C celebrated by the black peoples in the United States and in 1976 as part of the nation's by Centennial black history week was expanded and became established as Black History Month month which and it is now celebrated all over North America Canada and Europe while the observance of Black History Month Claus our Town's attention and the continued need to battle racism and to build a society that lives to its democratic ideals this year's celebration and recognition of Black History Month are especially significant as we reflect on the historic challenges facing our community and the nation at this time we acknowledge that black history is American history stories and facts fully inter in the political economic cultural scientific and Democratic fabric that make up our great nation this year we are proud to celebrate the key elements of 2023 George Floyd Justice and policing act Banning choold restricting to no walk warrants and other efforts supported by the swamp Scot Police Department that Define the best practices with community policing including the recent hiring of the most diverse group of SWOT police officers and firefighters in the history of our town these efforts have helped to advance the public trust and safety as we build a brighter more inclusive future with our town our Commonwealth and our nation the town of swam Scot is proud to celebrate Black History Month and pledge to our continued commitment to build a welcoming Community when that reflects the full talents and diversity of the American people and that celebrates swamp Scott's third annual juneth celebration among other efforts by swar and the broader community that is committed to to build a future that is inclusive and ready to confront deep racial inequalities and the systematic racism that continue to plague our community in nation the town of swam Scot commits to doing everything in our power to demand that we all seek a greater understanding and an Implement changes to ensure that racism anti-Semitism and the just unjust treatment of any person is not tolerate in any way shape or form within the town of swamp Scot swamp Scott unites respects embrace sh diversity will host a Black History Month celebration on Tuesday February 25th 5:30 p.m. at the swam Scot High School to share important conversations about swamp Scot's black history and to work to build a more inclusive community and now therefore the town of swam Scot hereby establishes February 2025 as Black History Month in the town of swam Scot Massachusetts and encourage all faith-based nonprofit organizations residents businesses and Civic public and institutions to acknowledge honor value and celebrate Black citizens and celebrate our diverse Heritage and culture and continue our efforts to create a world that is more just peaceful and prosperous for us all in witness thereof we have here unto set our hands and caused to be a fixed at the Great Seal of the town of swam Scot Massachusetts the 5th day of February 2025 well well thank you very much girls Sumer that's impressive great job and we'll see you for the Gold Award right all right absolutely thank you thank you okay so what we'll now move to public comment if there's anyone here for public comment which three minutes and um take your time please remember that the the select board doesn't comment on your public comment if you just give your name and address yes um this is high enough uh Deb Newman 20 bondable Street and I thought there were only two minutes so I'm happy de wait one second they're going out this way you have oh right oh than good all right we're good um so I got some incorrect information from two department heads um one said there were no rodenticides used on public property and the other said he didn't know what was used so I decided to go find out for myself and I checked 12 town properties and found um various bait boxes um five of them are uh carbon dioxide pumps um seven have labels stating that they're uh I'm not going to pronounce this correctly but uh bro vacuum perhaps which is um an anti-coagulant rodenticide um some of those boxes had T-Rex uh type snap traps in them too it's just like a snap trap but it's got teeth um 13 of them had no labels but the Box themselves are called protective Evo Express or EVO Express and eight of those uh were from Modern Pest Services and had a label stating they were smart boxes um which are bait stations that let the Trapper know digitally if someone's been caught uh all 13 of those are designed to hold bait BS made from second generation anti-coagulant rodenticide other poisons or contrapest which is is a contraceptive for rodents um and T-Rex snap traps so we don't know in the unlabeled ones what is there um six of them with No Label or identifying info on different properties like No Label at all nothing uh one had um kic calciferol which is a high dose vitamin D um unfortunately takes about a week to kill a rodent uh because they get kidney failure or heart failure so it takes a while uh one had said that it had Contra pest in it I was surprised to even see that anywhere one was called a Critter Catcher which um is described as a live capture trap with bait to catch small animals like rodents squirrels or other nuisance wild life without harming them allowing for relocation to a different area yet that is illegal in Massachusetts to move uh Wildlife from one place to another unless it's on the property way you found it um so you know my complaint is that we shouldn't be using rodenticides as many people feel and personally I would like the method for killing rodents to be a little more Humane uh than CO2 the best thing is a shockbox maybe coupled with contrapest and you know I have a whole Spiel that I can go through at another time um if you'll allow me to do that so uh one other thing I just want to mention I had also asked that the flyer on the town website um about rodent control be changed to remove the recommendation of glue traps because those are incredibly inhumane and the other thing I asked was to please qualify the recommendation of Simply calling an exterminator you know for residents just call an exterminator if you have an infestation um because they are allowed to dispense rodenticide anti-coagulant rodenticide to homeowners um and you know on the property and they may also not fully disclose that once they remove a rodent even if they catch it humanely um that rodent will be painfully euthanized in a CO2 chamber at their office so thank you thank you Deb is there anyone else for a public comment Mr Smith Frank Smith six Archer um I just came here tonight to say thank you I was here at a previous meeting in which I had requested information that was overdue be released to myself as a result of a public rec records request and at the time that I had made that request it was many days overdue weeks overdue for that matter um but the very next morning um lo and behold the information made its way into my inbox so I just wanted to thank you Miss felcher for what you've done for us in releasing that information and making that accessible um I believe that there is something to be said for this process and I just wanted to say thank you that's all thank you that was nice okay so not seeing any more hands we can move on to the town administrator's report sure thing I am pleased to be able to offer the following report on programs and initiatives that are going on currently in the town of swans guard Town Administrator we continue to meet daily with Amy on the FY 26 preliminary ta budget presentations she claims she's not getting sick of me so I thank her for her patience met with chep ARA and Amy also to continue discussions about the fire department OT budget which continues to be a little bit of a concern but committed to do the best we can met with the capital Improvement committee team Patrick Amy in the school department on Friday to discuss the school's FY 26 Capital Improvement projects Patrick Amy and I met with standard and pause to discuss the draft preliminary official statement for the upcoming sales of bonds and notes that was interesting Kings Beach we open the bids THS this past Thursday for phase 2A of the Kings Beach sewer infrastructure improvements project good news is the engineers estimate was $ 2.7 million an apparent low bidder National Water who has worked for us previously came in at $18 million a great savings there so means we'll be able to do more work essentially yep Public Works staff has dealt with three minor storms over the past week and a half and it looks like we're going to be that was me sorry looks like we're going to be busy over the next few days as well we got a small storm coming tomorrow which I decided not to call a snow emergency for it because it's only going to be one to three Ines and typically when we call a snow emergency it uh hurts the businesses because it doesn't allow the parking on the street closer can you put that closer to you yep uh anybody that's been out on redon Greenwood far staff saw that uh we're dealing with a water breake this one wasn't simple usually when we have a water breake we're able to isolate it with isolation gates the gates aren't working we're chasing it farther and farther down the street have to come up with a plan it's going to cost us a few dollars when I'm going to have to hire a company to come in and put an insuring gate in there that way we can isolate it two of the three sides of work and the third one we're chasing father down devans red and Sim it's come a little bit of a nightmare going to obviously not going to be able to work tomorrow I'm hoping that Friday I'll be able to get ejp in here to put the inion data for us Finance Finance continues to work on the FY 26 budget as I previously alluded to she's also working on Capital Improvement plan development and the annual to meet and warrant Community Development we have held a pre kickoff meeting with pen TRS to discuss the design process for Archer Street also reached out to the neighbors to update them on the process all this is all a credit to Mazi by the way a virtual meeting to kick off the trail design and build will be on Tuesday February 25th information can be found on the town's events calendar thanks Mazy facilities Max is working with Nahant on an energy manager Grant is Max is also working with Jonathan preparing an invitation of the bids for the improvements to the library entrance way town clerk Jarrett processed 163 voter registrations what a bit over a thousand census forms have been returned to the clerk's office and he had to make amendments to 800 of those so assuming most of more small changes but changes that were necessary to made Police Department chief Casada has signed up offices for a free Holocaust training program which was interesting I found that out today the chief also relayed to me that the swampa police department will not be assisting either ice or DHS with any potential deportations unless it's a serious crime they'll get involved but if it's just to come in we're not getting involved with that fire department was awarded a 19,000 Grant to the Commonwealth executive offic of Public Safety this equipment funding will be used for the purchase of fire hose nozzles and Fitts additionally two new highers began working for the P fire department this week bringing the apartment to a full complement of firefighters I asked Graham this morning if he could set up a date to introduce the two new firefighters so said that um the last three were hired were not brought in so he's going to bring BR all five of them and introduce them to us assessing department has accepted exemption and abatement applications through the end of the last month and now will begin the abatement process Health Department Health Department continues to monitor State sites for information on communicable and infectious diseases presently bird flu is pretty prominent Health Department continues to manage coordinate and work on programs and initiatives related to the opioid settlement fundings Health Department also continues to manage the health department podcast which Miss I haven't seen one of those yet and I'm actually looking forward to it so I'll have to get on schedule to see one of those he they're pretty interesting Human Resources sent the employee handbook to Town Council for review and Maran and Mazy last week interviewed a candidate for the open senior plan and position Recreation Department today is week four of the ski Bradford program typically there are two buses with 90 skiers attending this sixe program which is in its 18th year kudos to Danielle planning is on for a new spring event I thought this was pretty interesting the Derby Day event we're going to use our new TV screen and projector on Derby day to have a nice little event that should be interesting with all the hats and everything that go along with that I like that and Danielle is currently working on schedule on a public safety day for this Summit at Philips Park senior senator this year swampa for all ages conference will focus on keys to a successful retirement and will be held on Saturday March 22nd additional information will be on the town's website and Facebook page Library Jonathan is attending a legislative breakfast on Friday to discuss Library needs Jonathan has concerns that smaller libraries are subsidized in some of the larger libraries in town not exactly sure what that entails but I know it was a concern Jonathan Network the platform that all the liar use and because we're smaller we end up subsidized and then more than the lar ones makes sense johathan staff completed building the library's renovation page to help keep patrons updated on the progress and timeline of the front entrance redesign and new children's entrance project once approved by the trustees this will go live and will be updated regularly that's it for my ta report any questions questions a brief one much sure you know the answer um we approved a resiliency scope of work uh that was bid out and awarded to kleinfelder Yes uh any idea when if that's starting anything I can tell you that the contract was signed by both parties and it wasent the kleinfelder and I'll find out when they're looking to start okay thanks welcome any other questions I have uh two questions one is on the um the new projector that we have yes um could we get more can we get um a schedule of more programs that'll happen with that projector yep and on the Holocaust the free Holocaust Coss training yeah so does that mean that there's how is that the training is free or is the town is there overtime involved in this it's just everybody has a chance to take Holocaust training exactly with no impact the OT budget at all that's great y that's really great okay all right so with uh no more questions now we will uh move to discussion education on what an executive session is um one thing that has been uh going on and there's been several comments uh towards the select board that we are having so many executive sessions as a matter of fact on a um recent Town platform there was a email sent out to members of of that group citing the numerous amount of executive sessions that were having so Danielle asked at the last meeting if we could have a little bit of a clarification of what is it executive session so we do have a slide we can show you and help uh educate really what an executive session is and what does it mean and how does it impact the town so Marissa do you have that slide well she's point up Mary Allen are we having the public hearing or no yeah oh yeah actually I'm sorry I jumped one I don't know why I jump one know you're excited to get to the executive session I was so what don't we'll do the executive the public hearing doesn't have a Time on it so we'll just finish this and then jump to the public session public hearing is do you have that a slide that shows how many yes so first there are three on this on this slide here you will see information was put together by Diane Mary so we set it out for chair fiscal year and election year and you will see over o under chairs if you want to look under chair spellos 19 chair tihom 11 chair Duffy 30 chair grishman 26 and Cher Fletcher 26 that's what you have there election cycle 51 to 4:30 20 21 you have 13 22 30 23 25 and 24 2 6 and fiscal year you have 21 year 21 is 15 22 is 22 year 23 is 206 24 is 25 and so 25 is 23 this helps give people an idea of how many executive sessions we actually have and we do have many executive sessions um it's very important we're going to go over now why you have an executive session I'd like everyone to understand that these executive sessions are also a significant amount of time that select boards have to put into it so it's not where you just call an executive session and you sit around and have a cup of coffee there's some serious work that has to go into it the serious amount of time that we take away from our families and other things that we can be doing so I'm hoping that this will give a good idea so now we can go over the description of what clarifies an executive session so you could scroll up Marissa you want to take this oh sure do you want me to read well this was provided by our Council um and this is a handout which they provided which basically States Mass General Law chapter 30A section 21 subsection a um it gives the reasons for um convening executive session one to discuss the repudiation character physical condition or mental health rather than professional competence of an individual or discuss the discipline or dismissal of or complaints or charges brought against a public officer employee staff member or individuals two to conduct a Strate to conduct strategy sessions and preparations for negotiations with non-union Personnel or to conduct collective bargaining sessions or contract negotiations with non- unism Personnel three to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining or litigation if an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigation position of the public body and the and the chair so declares four to discuss the deployment or strategy regarding security Personnel or devices um for example a sting operation five to investigate charges of criminal misconduct or consider the filing of criminal complaints six to consider the purchase exchange lease or value of real estate if the chair declares that an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the negotiating position of the public body seven to comply with or act under the authority of any general or special law or Federal grant and aid requirements eight to consider or in um eight to consider or interview applicants for employment by a preliminary screening committee if the chair declares that an open meeting will have a detrimental effect in obtaining qualified cand applicants this Clause shall not apply to any meeting regarding applicants who have passed a prior preliminary screening nine to meet with a mediator regarding any litigation or decision decision provided that one any decision to participate in mediation shall be made an open session and that the party parties disclosed and I'm sorry and the parties disclosed and two no action shall be taken with respect to the issues involved without deliberation and approval of the action at an open session um reason 10 to discuss Trade Secrets or confidential proprietary information regarding activities by a governmental body as energy supplier Municipal aggregator or energy Cooperative or if in if an open session will adversely affect conducting business relative to other uh entities making selling or Distributing energy and then on the back side it gives the procedure for convenient and executive session which is the process by which each chair must take once it's met one of the options on the front the meeting must be convene uh must convene in an open posted session with executive session listed on the agenda with reasonably anticipated by the chair a majority votes in a roll call a recorded roll call to go into executive session and the vote is recorded the chair must State the purpose of the executive session including all subjects that may be revealed without compromising the purpose of the executive session the chair must announce whether the meeting will reconvene an open session after executive session and then accurate minutes and other records of the executive session must be maintained with all votes recorded by roll call and then there's a subsection here which lists out the rights of individuals as it relates to Executive session when a governmental body wishes to discuss the repudiation character or physical or mental health of an individual or the discipline or dismissal of or complaints or charges brought against a public officer employee staff member or individual it must notify that person in writing at least 48 hours in advance of the meeting not including Saturdays Sundays or holidays the written notice may be waved by the individual the individual may choose to instead have the meeting held in Open Session if an executive session is held the individual has the right to be present for deliberations to speak and to have Council or representative of choice present for the purpose of giving advice but not for active participation the individual may have an independent record of the executive session created by audio recording or transcript at the individual's expense we will also post that on the town website for people's education um Danielle did you have any questions or anything you really wanted to make sure we brought this up yeah no thank you for that I hope that clears it up for anyone that didn't understand it or is under the misconception that there have been more under your term than anybody else thank you well I I mean it's not a full term yet so there will be there will be more and actually I'm I'm very happy to have more um we will not be discussing um anything that has to do with the purchase of land or negotiating we will not be discussing Personnel issues out in public we will not be discussing contract negotiations in public we will continue to practice um sound meetings and you know it's always a vote to go into executive session a chair does not put a board into an executive session a chair calls for a vote so um that's how you end up in executive session you you start in an open meeting you take a vote to move into executive session and then uh that's how the process goes one one question you do want to ask if you look at certain years and you look at what was going on during those years and you're not seeing executive sessions you might want to ask how how are these decisions being made and are your elected officials really sitting there and representing you adequately and I can tell you since I have been the chair I have made sure that I've called more executive sessions so that every member of this board has input and that was actually a request by members of this board so you know an executive session is not something nefarious it's a it's an actual necessity so I hope that helps and please feel free to reach out to any member of this board um the Town Administrator uh to find out any more information yeah just a quick just a quick question um because I didn't see it noticed in the KP law um primmer but if we are to bring if we if if we are to bring someone else outside of town staff into an executive session how how does that typically work because there there was a there was r what are the rules what what are the rules um I don't think there are any written rules but we'd have to double check on that we have done it twice this year um for information and to my knowledge uh there aren't specific rules on bringing someone into an executive session for information but I will I'll look into that for you I no I mean I thought I thought that per I can't cite it but I thought that there had to be a a vote of the board or to to allow an individual who is not a town staff member into those into those executive session meetings since what we are talking about would potentially be priv well is privileged under one of these um various exemptions right I think at both of those sessions uh we did not have discussion in those sessions when uh those two individuals had appeared two individuals that's two separate times that we received information from them and then they were asked to leave but we can look into that but there was there was no discussion while those those two individuals were there at those two separate times I'm not sure that's quite true but that's my recol reculation um does anyone have any other comments or questions okay seeing none we will move on to our public hearing for parties interested in application for an alteration of premises at vinen Square Liquors 371 Paradise Road swamp Scott Mass can I have a motion to move into public so move second second all in favor I I um I do have a question uh why are we getting this now when isn't this work already started I'm sorry we're we're moving we're having application for alteration on a premisis and every time I drive by there I see a lot of construction going on am I wrong that this is already going on correct good morning I'm sorry good morning good evening my name is Elizabeth Pano I am um with me today is Angela and Tara um as you guys Elizabeth sorry just give me one second I'm just going to respond to Mariel's question and then I'll let you take the um [Music] um one is not conent upon the other the the work that's being done right now is issued with the building permit that that happened after Andor came before Planning and Zoning to have the work approved and um because the business is already existing as a liquor store this is just a simple amendment to alter their premises because they are building that addition they're actually not increasing the um sale space at all this is just to allow for more storage and inventory and they're also building some uh additional office space as well so what you're saying is they they don't need they didn't need this application to be doing that that work correct okay great yep so um if can I hand it over to Elizabeth yes please okay Elizabeth Take the Wheel thank you thank you very much for that explanation um this application is to expand the premises for their liquor license to store um you know additional alcohol on the first and second floor um V squ has been um V lior has been in s star for many many years uh they're a great business CI into the town um and being able to expand their premesis will just allow their business to grow further um the new construction is going to be um approximately 2764 Square ft um on the first floor and 2,299 ft of storage space on the second floor um and and that's really the gist of it um if you have any questions or concerns I'm happy to answer any questions that you have does anybody have any questions I just have um I know Marissa had stated that the sort of like the store itself was not CH it's not changing the way it's laid out or it's just not expanding its square footage that's my understanding the store itself is not expanding it's staying as it is the additional um the addition itself is to accommodate more inventory space and office space but I'll let Elizabeth confirm that correct yes that's correct so the only square footage you're adding it will be Storage storage and office and office okay but as it relates to the liquor LIC there's a diagam submitted with our application so you can see what the look like um but retail we don't have the diagrams as it relates to the actual servicing of liquor it's just the storage space that is we don't have a diagram oh um don't know that's okay I can pull it up if don't want mean to try and pull it up or no Okay no Okay so uh if there's no question then can we have a motion to approve motion second second all in favor I I thank you good luck you too good luck Elizabeth okay we don't need to adjourn that do we yes motion to adjourn the public move second all in favor I so mov okay Town administrators preliminary budget for presentation just before it just actually says um this says not including school but I actually had told Diane that we would have questions about the school on here so so Does it include the school so because the school committee hasn't voted on their recommended budget yet that's why at this stage it doesn't officially include the school well if we want to make comments about the school we make comments about the school this presentation does not include the school right okay what well so there what does that wait if if if the line item on the agenda this says does not include the school how can we comment on the school exactly the Pres the presentation references School you will be able to because there's a line item on one of the slides so there's a line item in the budget that references the school but your comment is if if this agenda clearly says does not include right like if somebody if somebody were in the public reading this agenda and they were thinking oh well they're not going to talk about the school budget tonight so I'm not going to show up to this meeting and hear what they have to say then I would think that that is what you would read from this and so if we are going to talk about the school that that might not sure I think it would be helpful to have the the the whole context whether or not we talk about individual line items in the school budget I think it's useful to uh view this in the context of what the what we all know we had a public meeting about it um about what the the school budget is so we have we're thinking about everything together I don't think anything I don't think anyone can preclude us from putting those pieces together and Amy is this is this just a timing issue is a school committee meeting like tomorrow and talking about this they're doing a public session tomorrow but per Charter the school committee has until February 15th to vote their recommended budget to the town yep thank you so right now you're staying within our timing of discussing the preliminary budget yes okay so on behalf of the Town Administrator I will begin tonight's presentation I just hope there a line item for heat in budget so this is just an overview of our annual budget cycle um right now we're in the budget preparation stage which is November through end of February we are presenting the draft budget today to present the town administrator's recommended budget by Mark March 1st you'll have the budget book in advance of that uh finance committee will work on their budget development in March and April leading up to the town meeting voted Budget on May 19th and then throughout the year it's just implementing that budget until we continue the cycle again for Revenue this is just a highlight of the swamp scut Financial policy I'm not going to read the slide this is the exact same wording that I had on the December presentation with the preliminary Revenue projection just an overview of our financial policy with the 2% uh New Growth I mean 2% of the property tax levy plus 425,000 of New Growth um our estimates for local receipts and outside Revenue [Applause] sources here is a breakdown of how the revenues line up in swam Scot so 82% of our revenues come from our tax ly we have about 10% coming from state aid 7% coming from our local receipts and 1% coming from indirect costs through the Enterprise funds I just thought that this was helpful as we go through and talk about where you know local receipts might be down state aid might be up those are in fact the proper directions so to know how much of the overall Revenue that's encompassing so the tax levy limit for FY 26 is $63 million that's based off prop 2 and a half not swamp policy the maximum allowable Levy which is the levy limit plus the excluded debt is 67 million 900 the tax levy per swamp Scots 2% plus 425 polic is 61 million without the debt yep because our policy does not Factor an excluded debt uh based off the governor's proposal for state aid we currently have an increase of 5.88% which is 430,000 that still has to go through a few more Cycles but at this stage we use what we have local receipt estimates have decreased 18.85% or almost $1.2 million um as I stated at the previous meeting this is primarily just due to the decrease in investment income and in building permits so we no longer have all that borrowed money for the new school sitting in the bank collecting interest and then the indirect costs from the Enterprise funds are just over a million dollars so for anyone who may not be familiar those are cost contained within the Enterprise fund but are used to support the Enterprise funds so health insurance for those employees gets paid through the general fund and essentially the Enterprise fund pays that back through these indirect costs does anyone have any questions before I move the slide so overall our preliminary estimate for FY 26 is $4.9 million for reference this is about 1.28% above fy2 going into expenditures the majority of the Departments are complete at this stage um this is just a list of them going through I broke them up by their cost centers to at least make it a little easier to read um biggest items debt and pension are already set for the year items that are still being developed are property casualty and workers comp insurance we are waiting on the premiums we're meeting with the risk assessment team next week from um some of the insurance companies to go through before they quote our new policies the salary Reserve is still being developed um as you're aware we have three bargaining units as well as a few individual vacancies that are contributing to that salary Reserve that is still being fine-tuned um obviously we are still working on the swampit public schools number we have not yet received the assessment from Essex Regional vot Tech employee health insurance we will not be receiving those rates from the GIC until about a week before open enrollments we're anticipating those the end of March as of right now we're still going off the 10.5% rate increase that the GIC had in their original presentation State assessments much like the state aid will continue to evolve as it goes through the House and Senate and then Enterprise funds we're just waiting on updated numbers from linat sewer MW and um our solid waste and recing contract so Amy with the 74.9 you're assuming the 2% policy yes plus plus 425,000 of new growth and the debt exclusions that's separate which bubble are you looking at the 74.9 that is inclusive of your third bubble so 2% of the prior tax levy plus 425,000 of New Growth no factoring in of debt exclusion okay this just an overview of the Departments as a whole um I obviously shrunk down the line item to get them to fit on this slide so some of our budgets are flat some you'll notice are down um for any vacancies that we have we have them budgeted at the low end of the range and then have the higher end of the range in salary Reserve um so likewise you will notice a decrease in the town administrator's budget and that is just due to the vacancy itself Human Resources you'll notice a decrease that is the elimination of the de coordinator at the recommendation of the Dei consultant as well as the hiring and recruitment costs for police and fire um in working with our new um HR manager she requested that those funds be removed from the HR budget and moved into the police and fire budgets respectively under veteran service is on the breakdown what is the breakdown of the the actual employee or agent the actual agent there two separate things this agent the service agent is $330,000 a year what was that $30,000 a year MH and do we have a contract with Lynn we do how long is that contract I will double check it m might be going into the last year of it and this is just the back half of our budget um as you will notice we have a slight decrease in our debt service for the upcoming year and that is because we have the additional money is coming in for the school um so when we reban that it's the principle is being banned lower so the interest is less and have you factored in a projection we have money coming in to relieve the debt service but have you looked under Capital as far as refilling some of that debt service with solar options as far as the canopies things that will give we have been factoring those um the debt savings from the additional reimbursements for the school and seeing where that can be reallocated for the solar canopy so that is in the upcoming uh debt forecast great did you say the other day that we don't really expect those monies from the school to significant the debt reduction to impact FY 26 it won't impact FY 26 it will impact the future borrowing years the earliest we'd see it in is FY 27 and then to get a little off topic um the Town Administrator is going through capital on Monday to review to recommend uh projects to cic so that process will keep moving as well um as you'll notice employee benefits is a very big increase and that's based off that 10 and a half% on the rates for GIC when we do our health insurance projection we use the January enrollment numbers and as of right now we're assuming every single plan is going up 105% and based off that plus the contingency of the vacancies we're looking at a little over a million dollar increase in that line obviously the hope is that the rates do not in fact come in that steep um to give us some relief how long do we have on that contract we are under contract until the end of FY 26 and that's dependent on our uh renewal of the PEC agreement otherwise it will auto renew for another two years when do we have to notify them that we are possibly leaving by December of the year it's expiring so it means DEC this coming December and we have that on the calendar we do so obviously some challenges our Revenue has only is only increasing 1.28% over FY 25 which is $950,000 um and as I stated our health insurance alone is going up more than that uh Department our health so our revenue is coming in at 945 and our health insurance is going to is well yeah yeah it's a good thing uh good thing I dye my hair because these gray um the department head requests uh came in at a 6.83% increase or 4.8 million over the fy2 budget um and as I stated ad nauseum the GIC health insurance we also have the salary Reserve so we have police fire and Library collective bargaining agreements that are expiring June 30th of 25 um we have the vacancies for uh Town Administrator building inspector and town planner and then we also have um five individual employment contracts that are coming up for June 30th 2025 I do have an aster here just because they all have a one-year Auto continuation in so they expire but it's not a hard to expire so where are we going so the Town Administrator and my team will continue to work to balance this budget over the next couple weeks um obviously some difficult decisions to ensure that we are providing the town Services um and we're funding those at an appropriate level while also focusing on our fiscal discipline and our Financial policies we'll be publishing the town administrator's recommended budget book by the 20th of this month and then we'll be back to present to the select board on March 5th with a balanced Town Administrator recommended budget after that it goes to the finance committee review who will be recommending to annual town meeting on May 19th wait when does it go to the plance committee it will go to so at that meeting on March 5th um which I believe last year we it was done as a joint meeting I don't know if that's something you want to do again um but it will go to finance committee right after that so it'll begin working on the finance committee to recommend a budget so Amy when you say Department requests were 6.83% um that's just the town side yes and you unless I'm missing it when the column that we're looking at here for 2026 budget team adjustments you don't have a total here do you no I omitted the total and omitted the uh school from this presentation that was convenient to comply with what was in the timeline so can I ask you this um for the town side to stay compliant with the the the fiscal policy what is the gap between what you have what you're where you're at now compared to that policy um $1.7 million so at our 2% so we've gotten the uh 4.8 down to a 1.7 did did we really comply last year with 2.0 or because when I was looking at that grid there was a time when we did dip into the into the levy didn't we yeah so when you use one-time monies like stabilization or free cash to reduce the tax rate it gets added back into the levy the next year so the year where we used um free cash General stabilization and capital stabilization obviously the stabilization funds don't FL through the levy the same way so that year it shows a dip into our excess believe that was FY 23 so what is the impact I'm not sure if you'd have the answer to this but what is the impact on the average on the average tax bill when we go from 2.0% to 2.5% including the 425 in New World what is what does that actually mean um believe it's about $40 on the average but let me double check that one those game show if you don't have it we can no my thing keeps losing connection as I go through I will continue to find it if you guys have more questions okay that's just a that's a question I'd like to know that's a good question in the future here pretty relevant you know at some point we do have to start talking about um we have to start talking about the unused Levy we have to start talking about this publicly because we do have other committees in town that are talking about the unused Levy and as if it's a lottery that we could start jumping into are you wanting to tap the unused Levy marel no I'm not wanting to tap the unused Levy I'm just wanting to talk about you know do we have a need to tap the unused Levy are we is the unused Levy a liability to the taxpayer um what are the benefits for the cons because right now we do have what do we have a $7.5 million unused tax levy mhm and at any point we could be tapping right into that without a townwide referendum um and I think there's a step before that right I mean which is to say you know this 1.7 million over the 2% policy I think another correlator question is what does that equate to on our share of the Town budget where does that put us if if we were you you Andino said pencil's down that's it can't cut anything else 1.7 million what does that equate to in terms of a percentage for our side I will give you that $44 was the average single family impact for for the 2.0 25 for the additional half a percent no I'm I'm talking about above 25 I know but well I mean you do you could extrapolate is it not another $44 if you go from 2.5 to three right yeah so if you assume every 300 every addition 300,000 for rounding purposes is going to be an additional $44 and the average for the average home what is the average home 750 our average home was just shy of 770 so [Music] then what is the 1.7 million equate to in terms of percentage are we at 2.5 or three or four or not saying we're you know that you guys are done but I just I mean if you want us to be done that's the purpose of tonight for the board to give that guidance no thanks did you say half a percent is 300,000 what no no she's saying uh $44 half% for the average tax bill just we have, oh no it doesn't gain us 300,000 to the budget right too many questions go ahead so answer done the extra half a percent going from 2% to 2.5 would give us almost $300,000 added to the revenue I think was what Gina was saying which is the $44 impact so if Doug is asking if we add 1.7 an additional 1.7 to that and you're at like just 5% or be exactly okay but there's still more that's good perspective to have yeah that there so as part of your discussion with your your department heads and looking at the budget has anyone undergone an actual analysis of the FTE in town hall where you've actually gone line by line position by position to see where there might be overlap where there might might be considering the predicament we're in where you're actually looking at the value of each position as it relates to the budget has that happened yeah the short answer is yes you know we'll sat down and I don't want to get into the weeds because it could affect people and I'm trying our best I don't want to try not to eliminate a position but we have had some discussions and there are a couple but I want to try to do everything in my best interest to avoid doing that but we have discussed it I appreciate that but I also appreciate um you know when we're prepared to look at other departmental budgets in this town police fire schools I think it's it's it's upon us to actually make sure we're doing the same due diligence with Town Hall I think that's the only way we can ever sit here and say you know this budget should be smaller this position could go I think it has to start at home first in at least in my view right I agree as hard as hard as that is and as painful as that is I mean I think that's a necessary but what I've learned in the past too you never get the full Savings of that position because of the unemployment too I think there's a little bit of an offset with that that we always have to factor in offset still a sa usually short the offset is generally short term though the other piece too is the GIC I mean have we ever considered coming out of the GIC yes yes yes but have we done the ACT has anyone actually seen the analysis of what the difference is last year yeah we tried and I met with Sean and we had Brokers come in and but then we realized contract wasn't up until yeah this year so we didn't notify we we missed a date to notify GIC that we were contemplating leaving that's so that that forced us into this year because we I mean I have seen a lot of other towns offer incentives to employees to not take health insurance right so literally where you'll give them X if they can provide that documentation that they've got health insurance from a spouse or somewhere like you literally will incentivize them to not take you know because you look at some people and they they're on a family plan and you know maybe it's costing 2,000 a month through the GIC um every month you have to think about how much we're pre you know the percentage of what we're paying I mean it's just it's done in some other towns so I just wondered if we had explored that here we could do that now though couldn't we it would have to be negotiated into the PEC agreement this was looked at a few years ago and we spoke with a number of other communities and they did not see the savings that they thought that they were going to and we discussed all the fail safes of what communities did you contact M was either of those two I I can go back and double check because it was a couple years ago but they they had fail um fail safes in place where you had to have you know been on our insurance for a certain amount of time to get the incentive to come off you have to stay off for a certain amount of time or you have to pay it back you can't have the spouse hopping if both spouses were in town um and they were they were still saying they didn't see the savings obviously that was you know only a year or so out of covid so everything could have changed since okay do you want to talk about any specific lines yeah um so you want to say a little bit about the assessor line and uh the Dei coordinator because we haven't really heard any report out of that consultant so this is just kind of like popping out for me about them recommending not to have this position so the assessor um includes changing the parttime assessor to a full-time assessor and funding that so you'll see an increase in that budget to reflect that change um with that amount I mean why are we recommending more than what the department head is requesting not all of the department heads participated in the budget process so if they didn't turn anything back their request was input at their same as their fy2 well that's no because that's not the case here no right because they're very part-time and it's at 50,000 and now supposed the department had request is 145 and then the budget team is at 177 right if that's just a that doesn't an errant number that's fine but that's doesn't look like a town level salary even if it were full-time so like I said for any of the vacancies it is budgeted at the low end of the range and then any higher amounts are in the salary Reserve so this is funded at an $80,000 department head position which was is in line with a number of our department heads so you're saying that the the assessor's office with a part-time position is now going to um a full-time position at $880,000 M plus plus something else right plus right what else is comprised it still has um it still has an admin in there and then it has a admin stien that is going to another employee who is helping with that admin function when the part-time admin is not in the office okay okay so those that that amounts to like more than the full-time Assessor's salary right that doesn't that doesn't make sense anyway just maybe we don't need to maybe just get explain that or scrutinize that a little bit it seems like y then de on yeah and then Dei when I met with the HR manager she and went through her budget she indicated that the consultant said that we are not at a point to move forward with that position and recommended not funding it so that was based off the department had recommendation is there I mean a line is there a line for are they saying what what are they saying we should be doing I heard not yet not yet right and that the purpose I mean this was a placeholder in last year's budget that's or was it last year the year before even sure last year uh knowing that and then the consultant's the time frame for which we hired the consultant took longer and then that's what the 50 became sort of uh unused um but just because we can't make a recommendation today doesn't mean we can't keep the 50 in there in the hopes that we will be utilizing it for something related to a position there but the consultant is saying there's no position that will be recommended and they're making that claim I have not heard that claim but I haven't either it was also based off you know if we're looking at cutting positions cutting non currently existing Physicians sure I mean that makes more sense than right the Consultants saying are the two of you working with them we are the consultant yeah yeah is there a time when we're going to see any anything about that yeah honestly it to be honest Doug with all the other exciting stuff going on in town it's kind of been on the back burner and that's mostly my fault and you know not to say it's Katie's fault it you know it's it hasn't been the Forefront we have done a little work they have done um they sent out a survey they've put some stuff on social media um and they have gotten some feedback but we we kind of have a timeline for the spring in terms of rolling it out and having a couple of events um so we're in the initial stages um but we haven't quite done as much as I would have hoped by this point yeah that that's fine just be whatever they whatever backup to this recommendation would be nice to see yep you heard it here first Doug just like the rest of us and am you said the salary reserve line is incorporating kind of the catch all for contracts Etc so it's five individual employment contracts that are coming due um three completely vacant um plus the transition of the assessor from part-time to full-time and then the three collective bargaining units so yes quite cat all that all made sense to me except now the assessor in here too so the low end of the salary is in the line and then any additional R so if you post a job from okay you know 60 to 70 your the line will be budgeted at 60 10 potentially in salary Reserve Amy what is comprised of the it line is that solely the the high Q or or whatever it is that that is one line of it so that is um library computer maintenance equipment maintenance for all nons School municipal buildings um that is the highq outside um that is our financial system of munus for the town and school it's our phones it's all the software at the police department fire department um wireless phones building software DPW software um all of our software and SAS subscriptions um and then any a very small amount for any uh hardware and Equipment replacement how long of a contract is uh High q and when does that renew I can double check I believe we have few years left on it so it would have just renewed probably I didn't think we had a contract with them I thought that they just rolled over last year you think it's a contract okay does anybody have any other questions where's the Animal control officer in this in the police department in the police department okay that was moved a few years paring enforcement line item is really what that is um if you are going to see the parking enforcement officer which it currently is Max Casper to fight your ticket um he is the hearings officer so he will meet with you dispute it and give his ruling so that's a stened I assume right yes okay what is Recreation is that salaries what is that what is GF uh the recreation for general fund that you're seeing is the lifeguards so it's the auxiliary staff and then it is the Lifeguard supplies um beach sticker expenses and uh the deposit for the Fourth of July fireworks so where does the where does the recreation staff come out of that comes out of the revolving fund and I know I asked this before and why don't the life Gods come out of the revolving right the revolving fund can only be for programming so because people are not paying to go to the beach we cannot charge the lifeguards to it so everybody gets to use the lifeguards yeah it's not a it's really not a recreation service you wouldn't you wouldn't want to have people that are doing programs subsidizing the lifeguards that wouldn't be fair so that's why the lifeguards come out as it text it also wouldn't be legal so we can't do that yeah or you could charge people that go to the beach to actually have the LIF card watched or not um was now the time you want to have a philosophical conversation about the budget or um yeah I do you know so you're saying if we stay within our policy if you stay within our policy we're short well we're short before we started 1.7 million right I mean and that's on top of the schools which is similarly over so at what point do we look at the policy do we ever we should look at it every there have there have been calls right 700,000 right I think we're doing a um Financial policy overhaul this summer um and we'll be making recommendations to the finance Comm select board on any changes recommended to that um but as that doesn't really help us now summer does help us as slide three says um in the presentation it is it is a guideline so it says in the event the Town Administrator determines the aforementioned constraint is insufficient to meet the budgetary needs of the town in any given fiscal year the Town Administrator May request the select for vote to authorize a budget that exceeds the above constraints provided the tax levy is computed within the expected prop two and a half leg limitations I think at this point it would be helpful for Amy and Gino to understand sort of where we're positioned on if we're interested in a strict reading of the you know staying in the financial guidelines and or if we are open to budgets that do not understanding the financial impacts this has on the taxpayer but also you know as Amy said we're supposed to be coming upon a sort of re-review of our um Financial guidelines in the summer but that is not going to help us right now we have our budget we have I mean it's all our budget but we have this budget and then we have the school budget then we have multiple collective bargaining agreements coming up we have that in the reserve too understood but I mean it's impact it's an impact and it's an issue that we have to think about I think and I just want to clarify something I think I just said something inaccurate uh just in case anyone was actually paying attention to what I say um which is that 700,000 is over and above what the town suggested recommended to the schools what their budget should be they're not just over by 700,000 compared to a 2% policy correct they're 700,000 over by starting with a much higher number right so they're probably over by couple million dollars as well compared to a 2% policy so where did the $700,000 number come from because were did I hear that it wasn't that with the presentation last week or a couple weeks ago from the school department I thought it was like four something or five 4.79% that's the percentage no right I think it didn't when we listened to Cheryl's presentation I don't remember it being said 700,000 but that could be made I don't know thought it was their requested increase was has that changed 1.5 what was that their requested increase was uh 1.55 no percent I'm talking actual dollars yeah 1 million one million 55 right but over last year which is not the same as right but I thought the deficit that they were working with wasn't seven I thought it was closer to 500,000 is that think you the only did I hear that correctly or no it's not what I heard I think where the $700,000 Gap comes from is with a 3.25% increase over last year's budget leav an increase of $700,000 correct okay correct I just thought it was a smaller I didn't realize it was seven I thought it was closer to five I just think it's really difficult for us to make a recommendation without seeing everything so I would I would I'm sure we're going to have this on another on our next on our next agenda and probably on every agenda moving forward so we can so once the school committee votes their budget we can actually see I'm sure Gino and Amy and the finance team are going to continue to work on the town side to see if there are any savings that we'll be able to pick up and then I would feel comfortable looking at everything together once we have the school which is 60 plus percent of our of our budget inclusive of everything 68 68 okay yeah I just think it's really tough for us to say this is what we're going to do with 32% of our budget when we don't have the other 68% um to talk about tonight but I think it is important you know for whatever whoever's might be listening in the school committee or whatever like the budget as it's proposed now I'm now that I've got these numbers in front of me is effectively suggesting something well it's clearly 4.79% more than last year it's also like 4 and a half perc compared to that 2% policy it's actually like at a four four and a half perc um so when you got four and four and a half perc and it's two-thirds of the budget um either the town side is going to have to be like a 0% increase or you're not going to have 2% overall right well I would think if there's ever a time that we need to address a correction you know because we have all the bargaining going on and we have a decrease a forecasted decrease in Revenue you know I I think addressing it going up to the 2.5 that's allotted would be a a good point if there's the time to do it it's it's it's now and then if we needed to go back to an original policy that would be something in the future um but I think that you know you're making you're making a recommendation to the school to be what was your recomend what was your guidance that you gave them we gave them 3.25% right so even at the 3.25% in the preliminary numbers that we're receiving we have a $700,000 deficit we also have to remember in what is also involved in that budget is there's a request for $515,000 in capital MH and there's also an additional 200,000 that we should look to to put in for the utility stabilization because National Grid has not been able to put on the solar yet so that's still iffy which I I definitely recommend we we do that just because we don't know what's going to happen um Senator kryon is now involved in that okay to try to escalate getting National Grid going um and then we have the additional money that we're going to add into the that that we're looking to add into the um special education so we're talking about a lot of money sure we're not recreating the wheel here to ask you to model multiple sort of I don't want to even admit to you how many Tabs are on the spreadsheet yeah because I mean at this point I think it's it's difficult to see how we could fit into to our current Financial guidelines um not to say we shouldn't strive be the best versions of ourselves and try to do that but you know obviously we need to understand reality also and so modeling multiple budget recommendations I think is where probably the expectation lies at least for me going forward here because as David said I would like to see it all together but I also don't want to just see it once yeah want to see options so the do you want me to delay printing the budget book because the budget book was going to be printed on the 20th Y which would have the town administrator's final recommended budget do you want to instead on your next meeting have another review of the overall budget because the school will have and then we'll produce the budget book after that for the March meeting I mean I think that makes more sense than putting a budget we're not 100% certain we're gonna yeah that's still it's going to be a moving Target I think a little bit longer than we anticipated okay are we all good with this what what's the state of the tri chair meetings with the schools and finance committee we haven't had so I've sent you all updates um minutes are brought Diane in to send you minutes on Tri chair there is no update we haven't had a meeting um are there any on the books or what is what is the plan uh or is there not one or is that like kind of off the table at this point I don't know how that works I think it's off the well I can tell you that um we requested one Eric and I requested one but um the the school Glenn um had reservations about it and I was on board and uh I just asked Glenn and Eric to have a conversation I don't I don't see I don't know where Glenn's position is on this I think Glenn's position is that they're going to be voting on their school budget and their budget is to the Bone and that there's no nothing they can do so that's actually if that's okay okay well so then we shouldn't expect to see anything different than they're voting it they have to vote it by the 15th don't they you know that's one person I don't know you know they have several people working so I don't want to speak for you know the superintendent or the business business manager I you do have Eric Harman with his hand up oh Eric Hartman from the finance committee the chair of the finance committee should be able to unmute now Eric ER you should mute okay hi guys can hear me yes yes I just want to share Mar to your comment about me connecting with the Clen I had a call with cl for about 45 minutes today shared some of the concerns that we talked about just generally from the finance committee as far as understanding the school's budget so my understanding is they are intending to vote tomorrow Thursday night but um we we we were talking about looking at early next week to have a tri chair just to regroup on some of the things that I shared with them today so there is another Tri chair the works great there you go okay that's good to know I guess two comments one is um well I'm sympathetic certainly to the situation for the schools I'm also sympathetic to the situation for the town it feels you know quote easy to say oh well we're going to go to 2.5 this year but then you're creating That Base um so just wanted to make that point the is that you know we had the school committee kind of invited us to kind of a joint session in the finance committee should we do the same at our next select board meeting um where we all kind of sit together and kind of confront the reality now it's trouble is once the school committee votes for it it's a little bit hard for them to unvote it yeah unvote it or yeah they can they can you know just human nature though you know um but nonetheless I think it would be good for us all to not just invite them to come but have a joint meeting and um you know grapple with this together Eric you still there did he leave no he's on she still here just muted yep I'm here what do you think about that um I think it's a good idea I also had a recommendation from another spcom member today that at some point perhaps it should just be a direct power just finance committee and school committee just so we can you know just sit around a table you know literally around the table um and and talk some issues through without having to you know have all three groups here so I'm sure we can do both but um that was just a recommendation thought good idea just to kind of get down grass tax on some of the details I think the issue is it's the select board's it's the select board's budget before it gets passed over to you so before it gets passed over to the finance committee so I'm open I'm open to anyone's recommendation on that but if if if the recommendation of income is that that will alleviate some issues then I have no I have no no qualms about it however it doesn't it sounds like it's going to happen post the school committee voting so I guess it's a little cart before the horse or cart or horse after the cart but if if we think the meetings are all the meetings are all public so I kind I kind of feel like I don't know I guess I don't see any reason why the school why the select board wouldn't be at a meeting at the same time not I don't really see the big benefit of just the committee and the school committee it is the school committee required Amy to vote it by a certain date by the 15th of February so that you know that kind of so their meeting is tomorrow which is what the 6th that would be there okay good no I I think it's to Doug's point I mean he's probably asked for this five times over the past you know six months of financial Summit and when are we all meeting and you know when are we going to start this which we you know first thought about this last summer really right after a town meeting and how we were going to avoid another situation like last town meeting so and now here we are in February when you know it's time to vote their budget for them it's you know it's a little late um I just wish we had started this sooner and had really more opportunity to speak um together and really try to to work it through and um we only did have that one presentation you know which was very informative and um seemed so positive um from Cheryl Stella and uh yeah I just I wish we had more opportunity to to sit down all together and really work through it I think we owe them that I think we owe the the you know town meeting members that I think we owe everybody that to really give it its due diligence as a group so we will have a group meeting again Doug you have anything else to say I think I've said enough David all right so Eric I'll catch up with you um I think I can leave my my mornings free to to book a meeting so I can be pretty flexible on that we're talking Monday or Wednesday morning okay I can take care of that thank you all right so moving along we will uh now move to the discussion and possible vote on the UV pilot program I wasn't planning on taking a vote tonight because we've had no information sent to us previously um this is pretty much just getting to know stuff now so but we can we can can discuss that Mr good evening um here tonight to discuss the UV pilot program and um I've been attending the water and sewer infrastructure advisory committee meetings I'm not a voting member of the committee but I attended the meeting on Monday night and can brief everybody on what was discussed and what was voted on on Monday so the UV pilot program um as you all know uh Kings Beach has high contamination levels I think this keeps cutting in and out uh [Music] Amy this should be better um so as you all know uh Kings Beach has contaminated issues and um uh M has got some slides up right now to to show um those two culverts there basically the main cause of uh of the contamination at Kings Beach is is contaminated storm water that's being collected through two main culverts one comes from the city of Lynn and one from the town of swamp Scot the storm water that uh is tributary to Stacy's Brook uh uh collects contamination in many ways it's um you know sediment it's uh pet waste it's uh contaminated uh connections it's leaking sewers it's uh many many factors that contribute to the storm water that's being discharged down through those two coverts um raising the bacteria levels at the beach um as you well know unfortunately the beach has been closed many days the last few years because the the levels have and above the maximum thresholds so eliminating the sources of the contamination is the best is the best approach right to stop the problem at the root but unfortunately we're not there yet we've made great progress we have multiple projects going on in town that are either lining or replacing uh leaking sewers some of these pipes are 70 or over a 100 years old and um the contractors are working right through the winter installing new pipes uh around town so as we continue to eliminate initial sources of the contamination we've also looked at a program that would treat storm water at the end of the end of the discharge right before it gets out into the ocean so that leads us to the UV pilot program um on this project kleinfelder is contracted directly directly with the city of Lynn but we've been heavily involved because there's two culverts and we're part of the problem just like Lyn's CT is so this this program is basically going to use UV light to kill the bacteria in the water prior to it being discharged out into the ocean down at Humphrey Street where it intersects with Eastern a this project would propose to put two um large tanks there on the street we cannot put them on the DCR property on the grass um so we would utilize the street for this and there are two hatches there's one well there's one hatch to access the swamp Scot covert and there's one manhole in the median on Eastern a to accer to access the lind Culvert so basically what would happen is in the Culvert a small wear wall would be built it wouldn't block the entire cul it would be a couple feet high inside the inside of it and during low uh during dry weather flows the water will hit the Weir wall and a pump will will suck it out of there put it through the tanks treat it with UV light and then put it back in the Culvert to go out to the ocean so this program which would run from June to August would test that technology see if it's effective it would get us familiar with it and see if there's um a long-term solution using UV UV treatment of storm water um as you can see on the on the plan you got the tanks on the street the pumps in the um down in the Culvert and um that would be the the the rough setup of what it would look like down there be going 247 pumping pumping the water the reason the the Weir wall is not the whole way is because if we get large rain of events we still have to be able to get the storm water out um we already know that we have flooding issues down there sometimes with the tide coming in and the um the Culvert carrying large flows it tends to pop the manholes off down there so um we do need to allow enough water to bypass the Weir walls so that it can drain during large storms um next slide so what's it going to cost that's that's probably what everybody's curious um our latest um is this the uh MC is this the that's not what we have yeah it should be 800,000 $7.99 what is the one I I sent you uh the end of the day there so the latest um the latest estimate is 800,000 it's 150,000 for the engineering um and it's uh over 500,000 for the construction C and um and contingencies and everything built in comes right around 800 this I think the the current proposal um is a split cost between swamp Scott and Lynn since we're both contributing to the issue we're both working on uh the solution you mean split 50-50 yes can you yes right now it's 50/50 I I thought it was 700 well first I thought it was 500 last month it was 500 was I thought it was 700 last week and within a couple days it's 800 we better hurry up and approve it what what what after the last discussion I had 7:30 and then this morning I got an updated cost assessment that was 800 what changed the general contractor act probably act uh actual construction costs um the construction cost the the equipment itself is expensive then you got the bypass pumping system and uh um and also just getting down in there and building these um these culs I'm sorry these Weir walls in the CT is also um a challenge but why would it go from seven to eight in not even a month month try couple days couple weeks want me to help you with that I mean I just yeah sure it actually went from 7:30 to 8 because Lynn hired a general contract the wheel walls the fencing around it containment um sound attenuation and that number came in higher than anticipated a lot higher so they're hiring people or hiring people and we're just going to we're proposed so yep they're going ahead and making all the decisions on hiring and cost and we're just supposed to kick in whatever it is they decide their number is okay okay I'm sorry go ahead Mark um so so the goals of this program there we go that's that's the one mer thanks same one we have um so so I can you go to the next slide please project goals so what are we trying to achieve we're trying to familiarize ourselves with the technology we're trying to hopefully get the Beach open if we if the um program works well enough the contamination would come down to a reasonable level where we could open the beach this summer um we would um get an idea of how effective the treatment is so that if we wanted to scale it up to the wet weather flows we'd have a rough idea of what that would entail um those are the main goals of this project so um the water sewer uh infrastructure advisory committee put it to a vote on Monday night um our our kleinfelder was there they they asked a lot of I mean they answered a lot of the questions that everyone had and uh it was a 5 to3 vote in favor of the program it's you know like I said Source elimination is top is the is the is the best option but we're in a tough situation here right people are you know the beach has been closed a lot and it's going to take time to get all these pipes replaced find all these um you know contamination sources so you were on that call the other night yes okay cuz I watched it for the full two hours and three minutes I think it was um and I didn't know that that was you so yeah I was on there but I'm also not a voting member of the committee so um right do you do you happen to know or maybe Liz would know what the roll call vote was on that who voted what because I'd like to know that I couldn't quite discern it from the minutes um from my perspective of watching that meeting it seemed like there was a lot of hesitancy for those that even voted yes so that's that's where my concern is coming in I didn't feel um I think it was Dr vley Mr Patos they had some real serious questions that I don't think they felt they were getting quite full answers on Dr vley brought up a lot of things that that were really concerning to me um but I just would like to see the I would like to know who voted what yep there was three there was three no votes it was it was vley yeah Patos and I think Lauren Fischer yeah was the third one yep and it was odd because is I don't Mr Dan still is that's you yeah thank you um so are you you're a voting member yes I'm altern you were an alternate so at the beginning of the meeting I don't think you were recognized as becoming a voting member but you did end up voting I I got confused so I didn't know is so Mr Dan still is a voting member Liz each meeting I pick alternates to fill any open Spa positions okay so um we had two openings so Terry and Brian both got promoted to voting member they at every meeting so they're essentially full members because I couldn't figure out I know that he voted at the end but I couldn't figure out if he was an actual alternate or not or it was it I promoted him before the vote I'm sorry I appointed him a voting member before the vote right before the vote yeah that's what I thought Brian Drummond yes I remember hearing he was one of the no votes he had a lot of concerns as well okay oh Brian voted yes vot he voted yes okay thank you um I think he was the one that was questioning the scale and whether or not it would be six times or whether it would be just dry conditions or heavy rainfall or you know I think his his questions were about the scale basically yep there was definitely a lot of great questions raised on the Monday night meeting and uh people have some legitimate concerns about the technology because it's it's new right and it's and it's a lot of flow coming through there and I think Dr Bley said it that he was pretty sold on the on the technology itself on uvite and whether or not it would work on dry on but it was more a question on conditions whether or not it would work or was being tested on wet conditions or just solely on dry conditions so I think that was yeah I mean we're you know we're only expecting it to really you know I shouldn't say expecting it um okay it's more for dry conditions right because we know that during the during the wet conditions it's going to go right over the Weir wall anyway so so it's really just this program is about honing in on the dry condition evaluation of the system and can you speak to the pollution aspect of it from the diesel fuel the generators there was a lot of discussion about that how that would be managed or if it would be managed for the you know people that you know will be seeing this thing on 247 in you know in their neighborhood potentially what the negative aspects of that might be yeah I mean you know people have raised concerns it's about its um it being loud with the generators um it could be um a hydrance to the Aesthetics of that downtown area um in terms of the diesel fuel I don't know what what type of you know odor or how much consumption it would be I can't really speak to that okay um but but um you know it's not it's it's something new and different but it's trying it's it's trying to it's a last kind of a last resort okay I that's a bad way of phrasing it's not a last resort it's just trying to get it right before it discharges okay and Mr Paso's questions about the location I think he was um he had a different opinion as to maybe an alternative location being the Pine Street area um can you speak to that at all or if that's if there is potential in that I don't think there was it didn't sound like by the call but if it was discussed I think it was probably before I was here maybe G could chime in yeah yeah so Charlie has the idea if we put it on Pine Street both Lind celv comes down east and a and there is an offshoot that comes over to O it's been blocked it's in a state of disrepair right now but you could potentially set up the UV pilot program I think he's thinking about the BFW site whether it's 124 Pine Street or if it is the VF W site so I think he's thinking alternate locations right he was the only was saying that would also be the potential permanent location so he says know why wouldn't we use that yeah I think it's an expensive location if he's referring to Pine Street um we paid $1.8 million for the piece of property would be willing to pick up that some other issues with that because we have a lot of manholes and connections Downstream that wouldn't be treated from right Pine Street down to the ocean a suggestion you know it's not totally right that's yeah but wouldn't there also be savings associated with it um and certainly you know noise mitigation since you do have that heavy power on site right there at at Pine I would eliminate the need to have to rent generators and fuel right um so there could be some cost savings for the town I mean I you know I mean for me I think we certainly want to learn yep by doing we're not going to learn by not doing uh so we're going to learn by running this test but if if there's if there are ways to save the town of swampit money um I I I certainly would want to explore those those potential opportunities or save the headache of the Butters and residents right so so that is definitely an option but I don't think it would be an option to have this pilot program working by June of this year okay that's the other piece is there is the is the rush to this to just get it for the summer is that why we're we're trying to get this push this through for May or whatever it is right yes poten that's correct okay so so I sat and listened to the meeting I was able to find it this morning on the website I didn't know information was sent to us but I found it on the website and a couple questions that I was surprised at an entire committee how many questions there were were going on and how there wasn't more Unity and how the vice chair um Dr vley was vehemently opposed to this that you know I walked in there thinking well this is probably going to be a slam dunk and I walked out with a totally different view on it um it seemed like there was enormous amount of questions that weren't asked what about the wet weather and how many days would a beach be open but the most important questions that I found are are the questions that I have been asking forever let let say this works it's great where are we going to put it what are the costs what are the long-term operating costs and how long would this process really work for now what I've heard is that it looks like it would be the UV system would last approximately 20 years the operating expenses for it um are still up in the air and who would pay for that and then there's the cost um to ramp it up and the fact that Dr vley kept pointing out that why can't we have some type of an estimate of what this would actually cost is this a 20 million 50 million what is the cost and what is the size and where would we put it long term so that's that's my first my first comment I I was very concerned with how many questions were being put forth by committee members and that there were no answers constant we don't know we have to look we don't know no no answer the other comment that stood out was I think it was um one of the engineers from kleinfelder said that at a recent conference he was at the D and the EPA both said that they were in favor of a outfall outfall versus the UV that the UV was not a a um permanent solution and their focus was more on the outfall and then the last thing is where are we with additional testing have we really identified is there a possibility we can be doing chlorination and dechlorination could we be what is the timeline and actually relining all of these pipes because I think in the presentation that we had in the fall of 22 the relining of all of the pipes wasn't that a three to foure project at $12 million I'm going off of memory on here I think 12 million would complete phase two and there'd be one other phase which would be phase three roughly another $10 million and would that be for the full lining of all these pipes with the 10 10 million we've already committed yes okay so my concerns are that a I listen to I listen to a committee of you know scientists engineers and some business people and they had a lot of different views and a lot of different questions nobody can answer questions even I heard I think two or three people vote Yes but all the questions they had prior to the yes were all the reasons why they shouldn't have it and why they didn't have the information so it's this is this is a real this is a real tough call that was one of those yeah y and and as much as I I guess I don't really see I don't see why there's a rush if we don't have the answers it seems like it just seems like this hasn't been thought out enough and then the my biggest question is options what other options do we have and what have we really vetted super vetted like chlorination dechlorination the pipes the outfall how much how much are we doing there to really find out what can be done that's all I have to say I know both EPA and d uh fully endorse Source elimination M as opposed to UV opposed to UV the outfall and everything first stop Yes option one right yeah so I remember I mean I used to Sean would often say the outfall extension pipe was his if I'm he if I'm remembering right that was his first mhm like gut reaction to What would be the best approach but how have have we explored that have I mean no we pumped the brakes on that a little bit because we know we don't have the support of a state delegation they against it because so our representatives are against it it's gonna impact Nan and they no no so so yes so to that to that effect we do have our state delegation that is requesting that we look into this that we look into this UV pilot and we test this uh and we we test out this technology and again um just to set the record straight um we did receive an email from Liz Smith immediately after the uh the water sewer infrastructure uh advisory committee uh which did notify us of the 5-3 vote I watched the two-hour meeting um I thought there were definitely some good questions that were asked um you know there definitely some answers that that that remained uh certainly but I think just given the fact that this has been such a long and drawn out uh problem that we've that we've been dealing with in town and that the focus has been on uh addressing this and and moving forward and looking to solve the problem this is an incremental step this is an important step so we can figure out how we can learn um about this technology and if this technology which is a technology mainly used for for Wastewater can be can be implemented for storm water yes honestly I think I I don't know if it's going to work for storm water I I I I don't know which is why we want to do this test um and it only makes sense for us to vote today so we can have this in place for the summer beach season um if we're going to if we're going to wait and and have this in place for you know October um it doesn't help us get that information that we so desperately need and to take that step that we so desperately uh want to do we want to we want to be part of the solution here we want to make sure that we're that we're addressing this and if it cost us $400,000 to figure out that UV is not the way um is is is not ultimately the final solution and we're moving on to the pipe at that point we will then have the support in my view the support of our state delegation of from Senator kryon and from representative armeni and from uh the D and the EPA to move full steam ahead with the with the outfall but without taking that incremental step we're never going to we're never going to get there if if if this proves to be a a total solution then we have you know we have other issues that we need to tackle um such as sighting and Etc but we need need to take this step and I I think I'm certainly recommending that you know I'm I'm not excited about having to spend uh $400,000 um but again I'm excited about taking that incremental step that is absolutely necessary to fix U you know a 100e plus problem um in the town of swamp scut and in the city of Lynn and for the region uh and on the NorthShore we need to do this we can't we can't wait I have a couple questions um so there was like a mini mini pilot done already right there was some like extremely small scale testing done yes and that showed I don't know if I've ever actually seen the results of that I I assume they were relatively positive and that's why we're talking about this they show that UV works we know UV works works and they show that it works on water from the covers so at that level of turbidity so that that was the question know about that because it was small scale but also was like pretty uh was non non-turbid water right so that was the question really suped solids y so I guess well yeah we know it doesn't work in turbid water that's why there's a holding tank so that it can settle and then it goes into the UV tank okay and so I guess uh why does it why do we have to go to this scale like this this is this is the first jump we need to make from something that we did for two days or whatever it was and we have to go to this scale right away for three months I mean I know we want to you know keep the Beach open and that would be like a home run right if we this actually worked except for like super rainy days um and if Dr vley thinks at least technology any rainy day plus 72 hours right's I think it's any rain it's not just super rainy days yeah we don't know well this test won't this test won't tell us about rainy days we're thinking less than a quarter of an inch of rain without doing right without doing anywhere else we think so but we have to test that we don't know it depends on how long all the non-rainy days right yeah we think this could potentially have the Beach open where it wasn't last year unless they're post rainy days right because it's Clos the 24 48 Hours it doesn't necessarily have to be closed that long it'll depend on what the testing tells us but we won't have tests for 20 well we won't have test results for at least 24 hours right right but it may be we'll be fine and we won't have to wait 72 hours but isn't that what our signs say that we make people wait well we don't make we don't have result that's the recomendation 72 hours because we're not treating the water so those you're saying those signs would potentially change with this pilot yeah they could but probably not till we've gone through a whole summer I don't know and so why why do we have to do the whole three months that that's not necessary to show whether or not it works right I assume you would know within a month is as long as there's a couple different conditions of rain or whatever during that month you would know but the whole three months is really just assuming that it works the data I think I think by the time you get the equipment out there and set up and build the Weir wall and everything you're going to want to get a longer data collection period if you're going to do all that it might makees sense to go for a few months I in my opinion rather than do it just just for one month because there's a lot of upstart cost there right so would it be reduced if we would the cost be reduced if it was just for one month to Doug's Point not by two3 not by two yeah no generator and some fuel renting equipment the were walls and the renting of the equipment because you got to still build the wall and stuff right a question yeah was that explored at all or was it just kind of from the beginning it was like we're going to do this for three months because we we hope that the beach will be open for the summer yeah it was just we kind of went right to evaluating just let's do the beach season so then the last question you know so um I'm all for trying it um even though I definitely think that we should be putting every last dollar we have into fixing the pipes um because I think that's the real solution I think all these other things are relative Panic moves um but I understand you know if it it helps in the short term that would be great um so where's this money going to come from maybe the state the our state legislatures they are they they're in support of it do they have any money that they're putting towards it that's a big question it is a good questiones anybody know that answer approve oh Lynn is using their ARA money where we Li is trying I'm trying to talk you guys got it Li Lynn is using their Arbor money right their kings be CHP money and I think the legislators would say you guys had two and a half n two they don't US money right but how do we like didn't we have to commit how we were spending that money it's different that Ora money is different because it came from the state and so our commitment was to working on uh cleaning this situation so we we're cleaning the pipes cleaning getting to a better all those obligation rules and everything they so this one was we our to them they appr we can adjust that ear Mark as long as it stays within the general scope of dealing with that beach somebody has I have a couple of questions that's okay yeah um have we because this is in a flood area have we checked with conservation or anybody that we can even put this here we did actually it's outside there around because it's more than 100 ft from the water we didn't look into the flood zone but as far as conservation approval we don't need it don't need yeah we checked with Tony because it's 100 feet away from the resource area okay and the people know to just payback on that people know that it floods there right I mean this equipment is going to be flooded probably yeah right right right it flood I'm not sure it definitely floods there and because it's a combination of the tide coming in right coming over but um I think we move the equipment if we knew that was going happen well the equipment's a big I mean these are large tanks that are are going to be on the roadway I mean I don't think they're going to be I don't think I don't think the water that comes up would would reach the top of them okay generators pipes you know whatever water getting into generators and then coming back into the water that we're cleaning to put back out on the beach seems counterproductive but um um so so we've talked a lot about the wet weather issue and the idea is like the pilot and correct me if I'm wrong but the pilot is meant to give us some data that then we could apply towards wet weather situations which then we could determine whether this is truly a long-term solution yes yeah with cost hopefully with cost put to it mean cost put to the long-term solution I would hope yeah I would hope that our could help us you know once we get you know if yeah an updated estimate would you yes answer is yes yes yes okay um and these are no longer estimated costs this is the true final version of the cost no this is the true final yeah um can't say 100 these are quotes So before was estimates now we have quotes from electrical and construction I think so doesn't mean that nothing will change right we do have a contingency which they reduce to keep the number there's a000 it's got a 6% contingency at this point supposed what did it start with 10 10 and there's no data that we can understand what the costs are long term for this project because this is what I'm afraid of I'm afraid that we know UV Works we're going to have positive um efficacy from this testing we're going to go to implement it and it's going to cost the same exact amount as an outfall and then we're sort of stuck in this position where we invested in this uh process which has an upkeep to it right not that an alol doesn't have upkeep I think we learned our lessons pipes have upkeep but the fact of the matter is I think we're talking about a 20e span and uh sort of a lot of Maintenance to UV lights and um systems and finding a place to house it and and all of that I just don't under I I just I I'm not that I'm not in support of a pilot I just am in support of it I want it to be more of an educated guest and less of a guest I guess I want to say and so if if we have a little bit more data about what it might cost long term then we might be able to say like okay we are getting in a car to test drive it we know we can afford to buy so when they did their original report three years ago I believe the quote for UV was 25 million and I believe the quote for the outall pipe extension was like 100 yeah really high a lot higher I'm sure 25 is low just because costs have risen over those three years and we don't know we we don't know the specs of a permanent solution that's part of what we're trying to figure out but once we have that information I think we can estimate and it will be less than an alal pipe extension but even if we just the pilot as projected and then estimated it for water flow on great conditions in the outfall for both towns couldn't we come up with a dollar amount oh that's just what I think we need to do the pilot we could we could but not but the pilot is us like we have a d we have a dollar amount estimated for the pilot so why couldn't we just take that same sort of data structure and put it to a big you absolutely can you can you can do you can do assumptions on this you can do assumptions but you're you're doing the pilot and see how much rainfall will it work at and then you can extrapolate that how big a system I totally understand that I understand like whatever dollar amount we would get today would be like the lowest dollar amount this would count cost basically because we're basically saying in perfect weather with a very low flow if we took the pilot and Grand scaled it to work in that current perfect condition it's going to cost X10 million right so I understand that would be a lowest dollar amount but at least that would be a dollar amount that we could say like okay we went in making an investment into something that we at least knew we could get into the ballpark I think that would be the 25 million just revised for current conditions so we could ask them to do that could we ask them to do that how many times during the summer we only tested did we test there all the time during the summer or was it it just once a week once a week once a week so in that once a week how many times did we fail the swamp Scout side yeah swamp Scot side we were H last summer that was before I was here so I I I don't know this past summer I only know the summer before I know the summer before we did weekly tests and we over the course of the summer on our weekly test we failed twice wait what we only failed twice would you have remember we only test that was two summers ago two summers ago when we test once a week SW got part of KS Beach yes from our fall where they one little spot well it's where they were testing when the Board of Health test it they go 3 ft out into the water yes right when we're testing we're testing it right at the mouth of the alall which is if you go 3et into the water no I'm asking I'm asking for the board of the Board of Health in the in the water the Board of Health test exactly right whereas at Fisherman's Beach the testing was done in the water um and we were failing constantly at at fisherman and then we're able to really see what happens we have a failure then the uh bacteria seems to last especially on hot days for for a little bit longer and and we were able to see how it really moves but over at Kings the only information we have is the weekly test and I don't know the results from last this past summer but I do know the summer before according to according to Jeff Von we failed on two occasions so you wouldn't want our test because as I said when I don't want your test I want where people swim not in the right the purpose is to get I want Jeff yeah I want Jeff Von's you know the Board of Health test I in in the kleinfelder report just just along the discussion fiscal year 2023 Kings Beach was open for swimming nine days out of the summer season in fiscal year 2024 Kings Beach was open for uh 30% of the swimming days so those are that's information from from Lyn and stuff I'm only referring to this this is the kleinfelder report is what they I'm referring to the town our town Board of Health reports the information so I think the the last thing that I would like to discuss is um the noise the um the issue of pollution coming off of the the mechanics the obstruction of view I think there's going to be some lighting involved here so the lighting to the neighbors like I would like to see what this is going to look like like I know we've not put this out to the neighbors this is probably the first time there may be hearing about it unless they're watched your um committee meetings um but I think for me that's going to be really helpful to understand I understand there's a greater benefit right to the city of Lynn and to the town of swamp Scot but we've already told those folks you can't go on the beach that you're staring at every day and now you can't stare at it either because we're going to put a big tanker in front of your view potentially and you can't maybe sit out on your porch because you're going to hear the noise you know we banned leaf blowers for exactly that reason during the summer months but we're putting this in front of their houses so I just think for me to make my decision I need to understand that part a little bit better because it it's the most beautiful time in town and we're asking them to make a really big sacrifice during that time so I just I need some more information for that and why are we why are we looking to split this do we have the exact same amount of flow as Lynn okay so that needs to come off the table right and we don't have we don't have to build a hatch right the lside needs they took that out oh they did okay great they took it and it still went up and they what and it still went up still went up cost One D we took out uh idex equipment too and it's still went up no so so we have so we have just just so the public is clear uh police detail labor fill maintenance those are going to be split 5050 maybe maybe okay um the police since this is going to sit in swamp skit are we we would use swampit police officers for details yeah we're only anticipating using the police for the setup and the breakdown okay and then is that factored in here yeah to the cost okay it is right yeah we did figure it yep okay but David why would we split 50 no he's asking I'm asking the question okay and then and then are are there any environmental permits that are that are needed here that's a good point I think so not to my knowledge a question en enal permits necessary do you have to pull permits no isn't that crazy that's yeah that we're literally doing something to you know I know they talked about noise attenuation so they're going to put up an 8ot fence around it that's even worse oh beautiful oh good lord oh no a St I'm not hiding anything I'm tell I I and then I did not know that so no and then how much you know are there generators that are whisper quiet that would comply with any noise ordinance or anything looked into electric pumps instead of diesel pumps but then they said we wouldn't get the benefit out of the electric pumps and actually it was cuz we couldn't get the electricity down there right for the electric pumps no they're going to I think they're using electric pumps P me the pumps are electric electric so the pumps are electric but the generators are diesel so the generators are not electric they can't get the power to that location because we'd have to rely on National Grid no because there's not no no there's not 48 V service think it's both if they could bring that in right they could bring they said they couldn't well oh okay but it's both and that service that service does exist at Pin Street I'm going to say according to Charlie yes he was the for former former owner of the property that's the only reason I'm giving him some credibility not some giving him credibility so we have to make a decision tonight no well okay so when when do we have to make a decision by whenever I think that's another good point so I think the reason that if I correct me if I'm wrong the reason that there's a pressure to make a decision is because if the sooner we make a decision the sooner we can order everything the sooner we can get started the sooner it's likely that June will start the pilot and then that there might be June July August swim days open on King's Beach that we would not have open right now if we did not have a pilot but to say it if we need more information and we're not comfortable making a decision and it goes July August September pilot right I mean how much swimming are you doing in June it's still a little chilly but I I mean if it's going to the rush is what you're saying yeah I I just feel like I'd rather make an educated wellth thought of decision and still June July be able to have Beach days open I mean um is that does that sound right I mean is that really right is that realistic do we really have another month and does that push it back a month and is that the way it works or is that not really that logical I think work will proceed regardless over the next two weeks I think if you take two more weeks the work is going to proceed whatever is being done is going to continue because right now it's we we going do planning there's not the only actual work that's take place soon is the hatch for Lynn and they're paying for that because they get both the full-time benefit of it so I think there would still be pressure to hit that June 1st date even if you delay until you have a chance to think about it or answered questions that you un answered but I wouldn't delay it a month I would try to do it and why is it we are not looking at chlorination and dechlorination things that they won't let us have a bigger I believe that used to be chlorinated right it cannot be done the EPA said it cannot be done it was rejected isn't that a violation of the Clean Water Act I mean that that is what we were that is what we were doing previously chlorinating but not they don't all we weren't dechlorination either they they recently asked they recently rejected it again is that correct yes yeah I know that was on the table at the beginning and I know it came on the table pretty quickly so I'm going to so so did we look into a Decor you're saying a dechlorination station is is against the EPA yes they now whether or not they could be pushed yeah I don't know but it was one of the options and it did come off and it was because D or EPA they declinate de at Deer Island waste water so I don't know just tell you was if they're decorin if they're chlorinating and dechlorinating waste water would there be reason why send it a mile out into the ocean right and then they send it out mile out yeah right a mile okay so do we need to kind of aggregate our very specific questions out of all this or are we ready to vote well I'm not ready to vote I mean I have questions that I feel we meet every Friday mayor in the city and I told him it probably wouldn't get voted on this meeting because I used to select what likes to have two readings and I said it would probably come up two weeks from now that we would have an answer on uh 19th so I would think we need an answer to a number of questions one is the what I'd like to have an answer to what Dr vley was asking for in those meetings I don't think he'll have that answer in two weeks at least that's to what my fellow saying it why which what are you referring to Mar question he was asking a number of questions on the what conditions on the wet conditions and I think I think Dr vley was really interested in someone putting together a storm water model that that really mimics what a two-year well you know maybe it's a two-year storm 10year storm whatever it's put through the model being accurate you know be an accurate storm water model that could really give us an indication of the flow and the amount of water that we're going to see down there under a real storm condition that would be the catchman area for the St um Stacy's Brook Watershed subcatchments within that and basically how the how the rainwater is conveyed all the way to the Culvert and using that model to help analyze the situation down there that that's in terms of like analizing it for it being successful under all conditions eventually that's what he's really asking about like not just in these mostly dry conditions for the pilot but like would it really work I think all conditions is it possible that's right I think that was his one of his messages on Monday's meeting was that he wanted to see it what what would it be like if it was scaled up to the real thing would it be effective six times and I don't me to speak for him but I I'm just trying to remember what he said on Monday so the other big question for me is what what are What are the the cost the estimated cost that we're looking at in the future this just say this thing works this thing works what is it going to cost another the other question I have is what is the impact to the neighbors what is the noise levels lighting obstruction of view right what really count there were there were no answers to those questions on Monday night so those are those are things that'll be helped um I just will say you know asking us to go 5050 that makes no sense at all so well I'd like to know flow is do we have any idea what the relative flow is or anything they make it's at least two and a half times what El is two and a half times two and a half times so in in logic I mean if you it should be a 7030 split right if you go by or maybe a 8020 you could turn around and if you went by two and a half times you know what I mean swamps gets taken out most of the headaches because we're putting the p in SW Tak all the Hees I guess right forless we've paid for other things out of pocket that we haven't split 50/50 so if we're living by the beat of Our Own Drum if it's if it was our idea prior we paid for it up front and so we spent swamp Scot money to the benefit of Lynn and we were glad to do that in in order to push things forward seems here like that might not be the case in reciprocity right um I just have the um zoning bylaw that I just wanted to read real quick about the flood zone so just to make sure that we're in um so this is 4. 2.6.5 all Public Utility Systems including power Communications gas shall be designated in accordance with the mass State Building Code 780 CMR and shall take into consideration the long-term effects of sea level rise and storm surge critical elements of Public Utility Systems that are sensitive to water exposure shall not be permitted below the base flood elevation and shall take into consideration long-term effects of sea level rise in storm surch so just to make sure we're in compliance with that law with this pilot so let's just make sure we are please okay we talk about the noise and there's noise ordinances in both towns and we would they would be complied with and there would be noise attenuation what the depl were yeah they're aware crime FS aware of that we G uh building code with the decibels couldn't exceed and L do the same thing maybe they're going to get underneath that because whether they like it or not the way they want to get around it is it right they're going to build a fence and they're going to it's not going uh stifle the noise right but I think outside of the deciple of the noise just the consistency of the noise is it a low hum that's happening 24 hours 7 days a week all day long I mean I just it's going to be a little bit more than a low home it's going to be more than a l so I just I'd like to understand what that is at night time it's going to sound worse because because it's quiet yep and so people sleep with their windows open to have the beach freeze and they're going to hear this the whole time I don't there's just at some point there has to be community outreach there just has to we have to engage the community I mean waiting for this right I think the city of Lynn was waiting to see if they had our support and they we were going to have a to the city of Lynn is waiting to see if they have our support for us to talk to our residents no to have a town hall with I'm talking about just ours though really just our resident that are going to be affected by it's in swamp Scot right so that's you know so they don't I mean they could have a town hall great right but we need we need to hear we have Town Hall yeah exactly AG great is the only way this is oh it was floated that they could have the town hall at the restaurant but at the hall Thorn I mean I just I appreciate like their like their intent but they're going to look out for Lynn no no offense to Lynn or anybody else and I it's our responsibility to be primarily concerned with the people of swamp Scott and it's the committee's the committee's part of your objective should be that right in worrying about the people that are going to be affected by this so that's a big piece for us but for that committee as well yeah and I think the the last thing I I know this was brought up briefly but to better understand how you will determine if the pilot is a success so what are the markers of success for the pilot they didn't have that so that we can understand when the data comes in that somebody just isn't saying oh the DAT is great great and then we move on to the next point but so that we can say before we had the data we set the parameters for what was success and then the data drove the success not the success drove the data so I just want to be careful that that is what happens here so we can live by it because if we're going to ask that neighborhood to take on a building that's going to house something way bigger than this going forward it should be backed by the science of it I thinkc is days open for the beach and some sort of you know maybe perent contamination remove from the volume that is entering that makes sense that makesense I think the ladder probably makes more sense because days open for the beach I could be affected by other things right or no rain rain right is that it could be affected by so maybe there's some sort of person I'm not a scientist so I don't well we've talked about it a lot but we haven't come up with okay exact criter just thinking um like if there were if you got 30% Clean Days oh thank you 30% rain-free days and of those 30% we got to be open 100% of the time that would be a data point that would be great see versus we had 70 days the beach was closed out of 200 and whatever days of the summer 100 100 days of summer we're we're going to have Indian summer this year I don't know okay so that's a risky run too' got the summer yeah oh that that's another great point you know if it rains all summer the pilot runs longer it would cost more because we've only rent this equipment for three months but if you don't get data that is usable uh that's a great point you know we should find out what H what's the contingency cuz 6% of the contingency budget would get us how many extra days if we wanted to go extra days might not even get us extra days we might actually spend it before we start so we if we have a rainy year what does the Farmers Almanac say we should check Jesus that's a great question I have no idea okay so I think we're I think it would be interesting Gino for you to come back to us with um how much of this Lynn is willing to pay for if we contribute the land and the in the in the public nuisance can they contribute the money what's the value of that to them period and and if we and if we don't do anything can Lyn just drop a testing site in swamp SW right can they can they can they no they definitely do not miss drop a testing site you don't know who knows they you're dropping that $400,000 you know there's going to be a balance here yeah right right but I that's what I thought you guys would do say what this is what we're going to offer you instead of me going back and saying what's the discount oh sure some Mar ell in there we'll see what I right now right now it doesn't look like I mean their flow is so much higher than ours we've spent you know my understanding is we spent $187,000 on a study and I've been told that we were going to be getting 50% of that study back and I'm hearing that maybe we're not I think maybe that you could use that to your advantage but the agreement was that swamps was going to pay the whole 187,000 okay there's Goodwill there right like we did that said to there's Goodwill there we did that and we we didn't we didn't expect anybody to pull out their pocketbook we paid for it and and it's not that we're not interested in the UV pilot I think that's clear we it seems like we're all very interested we're asking a lot of questions we just are not interested in splitting it 5050 based and not interested in some of the data points we're missing so once we have some of that information back could talk about it I just further just for myself I just want to be really clear spending money on something that we don't know I mean I personally feel that there's enough science out there that says UV works on dry weather I mean it they they do it down in nor Island the issue is is that really worth an investment is is this pilot Pro program even worth an investment we already know that it would definitely were it would work on dry this program is not testing wet it's not going to give us a good idea on wet and we don't know what it's going to be long term so it's like yeah let's let's spend all this money and take away money that we would be using to line our pipes and and then turn around and say okay well it's going to cost 25 million to $50 million to build the UV station and we don't know where we're going to build it and we don't know how we're going to finance it oh and then don't forget we also have to pay for the operations and it's only going to last like 20 years so it's just you know all pair points you know and that's th those are points that came up at the water at the water sewer we know that it we know that it treats bacteria we know we don't know for sure that it works in dry weather under these conditions you they haven't tested it under these types of flow conditions that's the unknown we're trying to stop water pull it pump it let it sit for a while treat it and then send it back out those are the things we're testing not whether it works to kill bacteria you can actually chlorinate it let it sit 24 hours it's a gas it's a gas uh the rainfall piece would you think it's half an inch of rainfall then we have to stop utilizing the it might be a quarter it's going to be or less it really that's chlorinated in an hour or the whole day this is not a pool the machine can keep up okay got understood yeah so if you're that's the other piece we don't know and you know you can't model all those different sure sure no ability that's sorry okay so we are moving on now everybody has their information so how so how quickly can we get answers to these to to some of these questions so if you guys want to compile a list of questions I'll get right over to CL yes I think we did I think we did and I think we should I mean we should probably ask Chris vley what we're missing he is the I would like to know what Dr vley also I I really would like I'd feel a lot better getting answers to the questions you know he's the vice chair of that committee and to hear him to hear him at that meeting was very dis Discerning to me I would have felt better if it was a unanimous vote that's right I mean that would have made it that would that would be it would have made it easy it would have made it easy this doesn't this makes it very hard okay so now we will move on to dismiss thank you yes thank you you thank you Mark thank you Mark nice to see you how's your ankle sorry uh much better thank you you just leave it okay now we're on a discussion and possible vote of a select board representative for the towned administrator search committee um I had emailed everybody and asked to also bring your recommendations on what you want to see in a uh Town Administrator and then if we could also choose who we would like to recommend um I'm not really sure exactly the process we should go about this but we can all huh it is a little bit awkward but we can get through it um so first can we just go around the table and talk about what you want to see in the next Town Administrator Daniel it's a great question why do I have to go first uh I I think the top of anybody's list would be experien right I'd love to see an experienced Town Administrator um I'd love to see somebody with a financial background Municipal background um but I guess before all of that right you want to make sure you have the right you know person of Integrity honesty commitment to the town ideally I would like to see someone that's familiar with a small town because I think that the scale of of a municipality makes a difference right um anybody coming in is going to be you know you have to anticipate a learning curve if they're not familiar with swamp Scott just to understand its population and how this position relates to that population um but really I would love to see someone with experience I would love to see somebody with Municipal experience I think that's a that's a deal breaker right that's that's one of my Prime would be one of my one of my Prime considerations so I think those are all great points um you know I think we're going to kind of build a relatively obvious job description here but um right you know someone that's uh you know I I completely agree with all those things Integrity experience um great manager uh you know this is a team sport and someone who has has the capability to communicate with the people in town uh effectively um not just their own kind of you know voice but in order to ensure the the workings of the town uh are adequately communicated um and you know that's a priority for them yeah that's good enough for now Doug David David oh just just just building upon our conversation from earlier this evening about our budget um I think someone with a strong Municipal Finance uh background is is going to be um is going to be imperative and just being able to juggle um you know uh you know we're we are a small town of 15,000 but we probably operate as a at this at the same uh at the same Pace as a as a small or or mediumsized city um with all of our various projects uh happening so I think I think somebody who's able to um who's able to multitask uh Communications certainly something that we've that we've been talking about for a number of years um I think you know to Doug's point I thought that I think that's important um and really somebody who's uh you know who's engaged and active um you know in the community and really and really seeing a lot of these uh a lot of these things that we've built over the last five or six years um continuing to build as we uh as we build upon that muscle memory and um and really make the town of swampit you know a great place to live uh work and play that's that's my vision Katie um yeah so when I was thinking about this I thought like who could be the perfect fit for this position and I was like maybe like a project manager when I think about it because I thought you're gonna name some I you're gonna say Doug Doug it's Doug Thompson Doug um I'm thinking like a project manager somebody who's used to obviously handling multiple things happening at once but still able to keep all the plates spinning somebody who's able to communicate effectively somebody who's able to delegate so that things are never stopping because um I think that to David's point we're we're rapid paced here right and sometimes we get a hold of an idea and we want to just execute and so being able to say okay this is what I have to focus on immediately and this is how this is what I can delegate so that things aren't stopping I think that there has been a lot of hard work in town about our Municipal finances and we're coming into a season that that is going to be sort of like a pressure point for us so having somebody have that experience is great if they had a ton of other wonderful characteristics though could we get somebody there sure so I don't want to just say like they have to wear all all the all the hats are the best right but to say they have to wear one hat over another I'm not quite there yet I think if you if you found somebody who was able to wear most of the hats but lacked some even hats that we find important then are there ways to get them up to speed on those things so I don't want to pigeon hole and say like oh they have to have you know a background in finance or Municipal Finance I don't know that that's necessarily the case but then I would be looking for strong suits in other areas um to sort of overcompensate for what they might lack so that's how I thought about it so for me um I I you know pretty much I'm in agreement with a well-rounded executive that can manage everything to be a real manager um someone who really understands the role what their relationship is with the select board someone who does have a financial background but not necessarily has to be the end all um but someone who is committed to uh strong finances um someone who can command respect and deal with uh Union negotiations and be be honest and straightforward with what's going on and not you know try to not give us the real update on on what things should be just really put the facts out there um someone that could hold people accountable and keep a standard in town someone who can uh work well with the public work work with the community and understand the community and what all our needs are I mean we are a very unique Community it's we're very involved we're very emotional and um I just think we just it's it's a Well a well-rounded executive and I did speak with um one of the candidates tonight who actually also recommended that we we consider a candidate who does come from a a a town that has Coastal experience so I wanted to throw that out there too so I think we've gone over I think we have gone over everything Marissa on what we're looking for in a Town Administrator and now we just need to choose somebody that we want to represent us and then we can uh I'll send that over to the town moderator the town moderator will make his two decisions and then we will uh set the set the committee in motion um so do we know we end up finding out who the people are recommended by school committee and find yeah um we John what is John John giantis is the school and Eric Hartman is finance oh they're actually picking people from their committee they're so we could pick someone from our committee if we want or we could pick someone from outside we do have the ultimate decision in you know at the end so I mean does this it depends on what the committee wants what do you want to pick within our own or do you want to go outside is there a well I think I thought we sort of already decided that okay just to apply one of ourselves we're going to look like jerks so I don't I would call them back and say we're only kidding but okay um so we are we're very very lucky um we have a pool of a number of people here we have uh Tavon Amore gari Cooper Aon do ro Kristen Dora Thomas Driscoll Jr Ryan hail James kasac Robert Powell Matt Strauss and Tom younger and I will tell you out of this Howard Howard Sid you SK you left to know I don't have Howard on my list yeah it's true it's not on this list is it it's on this one okay so my list came in on on the due date okay okay he was a late ad I think I remember seeing an email from Diane about that okay so so out of this list we have a county clerk uh and magistrate we have past Town administrators we have past select board members we have entrepreneurs HR Specialists and multiple committee chairs this is an amazing list and these people are are really kind to raise their hand and to do this this is hard work and I I really appreciate so um if we have a recommendation if you want to make a recommendation on how to go forward I mean I mean I can only say for me you know I have a number of people here that I think would fit really well I don't know if do you want to just want to recommend a number of people and see who gets the most amount of votes do we want to just put one name out so I'm open to any recommendations here this is hard because I I could pick four people yes EAS this whole group would easily easily do it wish we could just have everybody here I don't really don't so well it's very it's very uh awkward like like for me I okay I would like to throw Ton's name out as um a choice I asked him if he might be interested in putting forth his name um his background is in consumer psychology and he is an entrepreneur as Maryland said he leads Integrations of companies of hundreds of people um he has hired hundreds of um people at a time when when companies buy companies and they need to expand um he um obviously understands like a quick uh the need to be quick in the market and so obviously this process is not infinite right we're hoping to have it done in a relatively quick fashion but what what drew me to sort of ask him to become more involved is that we've spoken a lot about um like how to get leads how to understand who's out there how to um how to how to make sure that the search is prosperous in such a way that we have multiple choices in the end and that we're able to choose the greatest of a great group of people rather than you know maybe the best of a you know smaller group of people um so he was really like very passionate about using technology to like have a data driven approach and I think like as we are talking about being more transparent and being more uh I Danielle had brought up which I thought was a wonderful idea about getting a survey going so that people could feel involved in this process and that it wasn't just something that we put it on the community um all of that takes time but also all of it takes an understanding of how to use how to create the data points like how to how to create the surveys and how to process that how to bring the data in how to read the data and then how to spit the data back out so that we can understand the data as a community he really seemed um that's very much his wheelhouse and is a little bit different from some of the other folks who were put forward who have either already served on this type of committee who seems to be more in traditional type HR roles or executive search function roles so I just felt like he was a little bit something different um because a lot of these folks had as we said we could choose any of them and they would do a wonderful job so we'll see we have one vote for Tavon did you want to say anybody else on here he's my vote so he's your one vote right I mean if I need you're not asking for multiple votes right well you know I'm just saying that you know when I looked at my list I looked and I thought okay well if I were going to recommend a a couple people you know I would be looking I was looking more for people that that had experience in this process that could lead the process through so you know that's why my my my first look was to Aaron de ro because Aon is an HR person um and originally when I had spoke with Naomi drien who was on the selection not on the she was on the select board Naomi had pointed out how Aaron did a great job with organizing everything keeping everything targeted and she had her she had her HR background and then you know I also know that uh Tom Driscoll has enormous amount of experience in municipalities and um a lot of experience hiring in the court systems and then um I had a a really interesting conversation with Tom younger today Tom younger has been on several committees several several Committees of searching for Town administrators and um School superintendents um and he's he's been doing this for a long time so I did and and he's also worked with search committees so he has a lot of background in all that so those are you know I that's how I was looking at it but you know I wanted to hear what other people had to say um so I mean when I look at it when I look at this list it's it's like the All-Star team because you know Aon D Ro I mean I I can't think of a more competent HR professional in our town she really does I mean if you look at a resume you can see the same she does have experience leading the process as she did last time which is beneficial in the same token um you know Tom younger has done the role right he has been a Town Administrator I think that there is value in that I mean he can speak firsthand to what what it takes to do the job and he did it here and he did it you know for a number of years um but then I you know I go back to one of the Hallmarks of of what we're trying to do or what I think we're trying to do as a board is engage newer people with maybe a fresh set of ideas and approaches that that we haven't utilized in the past um you know and I look and I notice and I read the resume in the cover letter of Krist and door um who by by her resume if you look at it um she's a team Builder right she's committed to communicating and problem solving and you know building a team of people around her so you know I think there's value in that honestly in Tavon ton I mean he went to you know University of Pennsylvania and Philips exitor I you know this is this is probably the most difficult decision I've seen in a long time he's got CEO experience he hires people left and right um you know he's he's got he checks a lot of the boxes so while I do think experience um is helpful I also want to see somebody with a fresh perspective someone that we don't necessarily see on every single Committee in town somebody that's got an independent mind that is not necessarily going to be um Lock Stock with you know a certain segment of the population in swamp Scott right someone that's going to to think outside of the box which is you know I think I think as we chart a new course for leadership in this town it's important that we get Innovative thinkers and people that are thinking outside of the box and I think if we continue to go with the same people that you know while I appreciate that they're on many committees in town it's you know we're not changing with the times right we're not thinking with a fresh perspective so um I think that if I look in that respect then I have to consider people like Tavon um Kristen um I I you know and but then I feel badly because you know ER D Ro and Tom younger are you know would normally rise to the top of any pile that I that I would have so those are kind of my thoughts all right well let's just talk through this Doug uh well just to continue the pattern of um diversifying the options um to me I uh I agree tons of great people here with you know lots of experience uh in you know swamp Scott and and um you know I think you mentioned it last time Danielle about like you know some of these people are great but they were involved last time so you know even know I uh you know Bob Powell super involved uh great guy done a lot of hiring you know Innovative you know all these other things we said I mean he did it last time you know Aaron did it last time um so to me that kind of you know make room for someone new yeah and different really different perspective um and so I I don't even know this Howard Howard sidel guy um but some ways that's that's what he does that's all he does actually is is hire people senior leaders um for 25 years um intriguing yeah I agree you know he went to Harvard yeah psychology uh so um I I agree there's like there's a lot of good options here but I suppose like I'm intrigued even though I have you know people I'm very friendly with that are on this list and I'm not you know um that I'm sure would be great but to me that's that's interesting especially in the context of the people that finance committee is recommending and school committee's recommending we've got people that are immersed right in town government already um you know we could rely on the moderator to do that balancing um but for me that's so the person I don't even know this packet will go to the moderator right away tonight too what's that this the packet is going to the moderator too okay yeah yeah to Me Howard sidel really stood out as being as being someone who was not involved but for this particular situation could be um it just stood out to me as as as the best uh individual um of the 11 again to to Echo I I I don't think we could go wrong with any of these 11 um but Howard sidel's name uh and experience just really stood out to me as being um as being A Cut Above especially if we're looking to diversify and get people who have not yet uh been involved but whose experience would allow them to to Really uh to really contribute uh in a big way to this uh to this commit uh so that would be my recommendation would be Howard sidel all right so we have Howard Sidell has two recommendations Kristen has one recommendation Mr Amore has two recommendations so I think if I had to make a decision I uh I would go with Mr omore um based on his experience as a CEO and um the things that he has accomplished so that's where I would go with that because my my folks didn't get didn't get a second I would motion to then approve approve Mr amore amore as our selection for selection for the town administrative search committee okay do we have a second second do we need any more more discussion than what we've already had hopefully not okay all in favor I I I okay motion carries didn't vote didn't vote yeah you didn't vote no oh my God I'm sorry I'm getting tired it's okay can we have a vote all in favor I I I opposed opposed opposed yeah okay yeah all right so so um I guess just as a followup I know we've already said we're sending this packet over to the moderator I would say if the moderator would consider Howard as a choice that it was clear that the board and he viewed him as a very well perceived uh selection I know he's got his own choices but just want to say that all right so Marissa you will make sure that the moderat has all of that right I already sent him the packet right before the meeting but I'm happy to follow up and um give him a quick summary of the discussion did you did you send them you sent him the two4 because there were there were two sets of yeah so the one that I sent him is the one that's been included in your packet which has Howard sidel's resume and letter of interest it's the one with the blacked out box that redacted the email address and phone numbers so he has the most updated version got it that was included in the packet okay uh Now we move to the update on the citizens petition petition um that's a we have a certified citizens petition so we will be uh calling for a special town meeting within the next 45 days I've already started the process of getting a um getting a location I'm going to email the moderator in the morning to find out what his schedule is looking like um trying to find out if we if we if we have this a little bit later in that within that 45 days if there's any possibility of getting that bylaw updated for the community for the community preservation act we have to find out from the lawyers what the possibili is on that yeah so you have until um you have to hold the special time meeting honor before March 20th the 45th day right um and depending on how your agenda item eight goes tonight um in discussing that bylaw I have two different warrants drafted already so the motion Lang uh the warrant language is already in there referencing an appendix where the bylaw would go so if you are able to um as a board come together with what that bylaw would look like then I can get that plugged in and uh I've already spoke with Town Council in about 24-hour turnaround on them reviewing and approving the warrant okay so could we just could we end up just having the community could we just have a conversation about that tonight briefly and then come two weeks later and make a decision and could you work behind the scenes and just find out what's in our best I I would love to in fact I'm surprised it's even on here because I had a conversation with Mary saying that I would love to consult with all the people that were working on this and uh she said great um so not really but anyway it's okay get it started okay so so let's then let's move to the community preservation but so where are we though with that uh I believe Town Council has sent numerous uh other towns bylaw examples right is that what you mean marel yeah okay and I mean as a reminder right like so we it got passed and the Next Step here is that we have to form the committee and so that's really what this is about I think the next step is we have to pass the bylaw and then form the committee that's what I've been told you pass the bylaw it will go through the 90day review and then once that bylaw is enacted you'll appoint the committee right that's that's my understanding though but the bylaw identifies who will be on the committee not the individuals names yeah but where which committees they come from that's what we have we have to form the community preservation committee structure that's what this idea of the commit yeah right oh and specifically which roles or which committees you want people to come from all right so let's let's talk about that a little bit tonight so there are five of them that are required y right the first five that are listed here one from the planning board um one from the Conservation Commission one from the historical commission one from Parks and wreck and um looks like a typo there yeah I see d hous right I like what and uh one from I I don't actually know whether or not it's required that it's from the Housing Authority it is required it is it is Authority M okay would make sense I thought it had to be a housing group I didn't know if it could be the affordable housing trust but okay um so then the others are optional and you can go up to nine so five are required you can stop at five or you can add one two three or four more and you can do that uh in various ways uh including um you know someone appointed by additionally appointed by the select board someone appointed by you know you could do it however you want you could have someone elected uh there could be at large elections for roles on the U CPA as well okay and all the rest of this in terms of the duties that's in front of us is like right out of the regulations so there's not really much discussion there as far as I'm aware Amy correct me if you know otherwise um it's really about the members of the community preservation committee yep so the bylaw just has to state that what the makeup of the committee is going to be you know you're five up to nine um if they're going to be appointed or elected who's going to be the appointing authority what their purpose is and how you're going to do the terms so are they going to be threeyear terms are you going to stagger the terms um and after you know I some of these bylaws are only a page so so parks and recck I assume that's the Recreation Commission yeah mhm not the TV show right if only and we can choose to whether or not to have these as the additional people as elected officials you can do elected appointed by moderator appointed by select board there may be another option that I haven't seen do you have a recommendation Doug I do not okay what communities do elected do we know I could look it up but I don't know off hand I don't I don't think many people do that um some do and it's usually one as far as I'm aware but I can confirm that next time and the average size of the committee does it we have we don't have the data yeah I don't have it yeah so most that I've seen have gone for the full nine they've gone for what for the full nine full nine okay because this could be this could be a fair amount of work you know to imagine right this is going to be something like a million dollars a year that's going to be raised by this and there's going to be a lot of projects that are going to be recommended to this group that they're going to have to you know prepare right the first thing they have to do is prepare a study of all the needs and possibilities and resources etc etc that you know the town is interested in receiving proposals for I say the town ultimately committee um and then they have to set up you know a process of taking in the proposals and they have to evaluate the proposals and they got to recommend them then to town meeting so it's not a it's not a Light Lift no okay I think more is probably better in that regard right because many hands make light work although I don't think the work will ever be light for this committee and hopefully we'll have a lot of ways to spend a lot of money for them um so I think it makes sense to stay on the larger side um I also think uh if we do elect it would make sense not to elect all four of the additional folks who come on here that it would be like three appointed maybe one elected if that's the way people are passionate about having an elected person on here um but we all know getting elected is a lot of work and energy and money and so people are inclined to appoint then maybe we could appoint some and allow the moderator to 0.1 or something like that so it's not just centralized in one body yeah yeah I mean my I thought would be keep your keep a committee of have a committee of nine two appointed uh from the select board to appointed by the moderator um if we could potentially get this to a page that would be ideal um you know uh I don't see the need to to have a to have an elected position if I had to it would be one um but I I think I think the appointees from the select board and the moderator would be would be sufficient for this for this committee and whoever is going to come into this this is this is going to be a whole heck of a lot of work as uh as Doug explained so you know so for that reason i' I'd want to be at nine I agree yeah I think we're all in agreement of nine yeah and I think it's really important to stagger terms because last thing you want to do is create a committee and then have brand new committee y age agree people I think the way it's written here is really nine and all of them appointed with the staggered terms make sense I don't see why we would do anything different yeah we don't need to reinvent the wheel here no I think dayon has good language where they have they have the nine Y and then it has two members appointed for an initial term of two years thereafter three one member appointed with initial term of one year thereafter three and one member appointed for a term of three and that way it Auto staggers for you yep I agree with that that's goodine all right so why don't we think about it and come back to our next meeting and pull the trigger on that all right okay okay um what do we have here discussion of executive session minute I I have question this on this agenda I don't know what that agenda I don't know that was that was I think that was an what about code of conduct and handbook that's we don't have we have to take out the code of conduct because we don't have we don't have originally asked Diane just so everybody knows I had originally asked Diane if we could have this discussion because we got comments back from Town Council I then looked at the comments back from Town Council and I can send them all out but some of them are just like yes we agree with that language so we can just accept those and then there's very few left so I wanted to sort of clean it up and then redistribute it to you guys so that we were concentrating efficiently on just the ones that need needed commentary okay so I did not do that yet and I didn't meet with Danielle to go over them so we didn't do that yet and then she just added it on to the next agenda so but you didn't do the code of conduct you did the handbook no we did the handbook right but we wanted it vetted by Council the hand wanted to bring it back code of but didn't we already have that done by the count by Council when we finally voted on it no we we did and we we changed some Lang like we changed some language and so like for example the language about public um social media no I'm sorry the language about um public comment we changed them the language about public comment so that especially had to go back to to Town Council to make sure that we were still within our legal rights y for public comment and how we're trying to manage it so and we're still waiting that was no I have the comments back and I'm just going to go through and sort of accept the comments that they accepted and then put forward to you all what's left because there were one or two comments where we still need to flush some things out or we just can't do it so but I thought we were also we also were working on oh we're going to have a separate attachment for social media and we did that okay that we have to vote on we did not vote on anything right okay we voted on the hand we voted on the handbook we voted on the handbook and then it got vetted so now we I'm just bringing you back the comments the code of conduct we did not vote on social media policy we did not vote on no okay all right all right so we're not doing that okay so that will come back so that's the reason why I was out there so now we can move the consent agenda um I just had a question to Gino yes what is a Jo poll joint poll um that's a good question it just says joint pole joint pole basically What's Happening Here is Elm Place is 26 ft wide when it was laid out was only 13 this is 8 feet into the right away so we got to get it moved 8 ft in yep it's right on the property line between 1469 place and 145 es Street okay we're already approve part of this petition They just added on the mve of the PO it's the second part I we' seen it got it P yes it is yeah it's in here Y and then while we're on while we're on the topic of polls um on Burpee that there's that pole that's the it's the double pole that's kind of leaning over Burpee yep is that is that going to be fixed in 25 I hope so yeah I'm going to get mock on that what happens is we may be responsible for that right now because you have to move the wires from the bottom up I think it might be fire alarm on that that more for us the balls an okay I'll get on it okay I just I drive by I drive by you drive by it every day yeah yeah u i I'll move the consent agenda second all in favor I I okay select board time Danielle I have nothing David nothing dog no Katie good thank you marn I just have one comment and that is the Retirement Board uh want to make sure that I let everybody know that they will be coming to talked to us about Cola increase um so I have sent out the video of their um their Clinic that they did last year if you if you need that again I'll send it out again get yourself educated on that the other thing is they are changing they're making a change in their portfolio because they don't like the return on uh one of their sleeves they're we they're a little too heavy on real estate and that takes a long term to change so they're making an adjustment with their they have a new uh Advisory Group which they're very happy with the advisory grou group is recommending to make this change they're going to make the change and that's what they wanted me to report that joint owned I left out the joint owned okay okay can I have a motion to adjourn I just hope all the I hope all the kids in swamp Scott who are still watching at 10 o'clock at night enjoy their snow day tomorrow I heard that snow day was canceled now it's back to school that was my kids and my husband will be home nice try so um who had the over under on the 10 we said over at 10:30 we said the over under was 3 hours I took motion to adjourn second all in favor thanks everybody