Okay, good evening everyone. We are going to call this um meeting to order. It's Wednesday, January 21st. Um, if everyone wouldn't mind rising for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it
stands one nationy and justice for all. >> Okay, so been here This is a joint meeting of select board school committee and the finance committee. Um
I'm Katie Felen, the select board chair. >> I'm Glenn Pastor, vice chair of the school committee. >> Eric, >> I'm Eric Harbin, chair of the finance committee. >> All right. And we will begin our meeting with public comment. >> Oh, yeah. >> You guys call the order. Yeah.
>> Order. Yeah. Sorry. >> Um, that's okay. Um, so we will call to order the meeting of the school committee. Today is 21st of January. We're at a tri committee meeting. Um, and we are at Swansk High School, room
>> 129 B. >> You got it. >> B129. So, we're all set. >> And similarly, I'll call call to order the meeting of the finance committee. >> Thank you, Susan. >> Very good. All right. Now, we will indulge public comment. Seeing none,
we will move on to um the budgeting for the public school districts in Mass facilitated by the Mass Association of School Committees. >> Great. Thank you. Um thanks everybody for coming. We're looking forward to uh answering what we certainly can. Um, as
we've talked a lot about, I think one of the differences that we have on the school committee side is we all have to go to school committee school when we're elected. And there's countless other um, meetings and topics that we can go to.
Um, a couple years ago, Suzanne made the good suggestion suggestion, excuse me, when she was chair that each one of us attend at least one of those lunch and learns every year. And so that's what we do. and uh we fel we felt the best way to continue to educate both the select
board and the finance committee was to hear it from the horse's mouth so to speak. So I'd like to introduce two members of the Mass Association of School Committees uh Tracy Novak and uh Alicia Mallet. Um they were they did intend to come live but the fear that I
had was we're going to have a snowstorm and then they're going to be stuck here because they do not live in the Northshore. So, I'm going to turn it over to uh Alicia and Tracy. They do have a presentation. Please feel free to ask any question. This is your time to
ask the most mundane question. They will answer. What this is going to do is, you know, educate everyone on the ins and outs of our budget, the legal responsibilities that we as a school committee have, the legal responsibilities that you on the finance
committee and select board have, and more importantly, where the guardrails are. And I'll tell you that one of the things we learned at our prep meeting is that we have had some guard rail challenge guard rail challenges when it comes to special education. and some of the things that we have been sharing.
So, it's always an education. I'll turn it over to Alicia and Tracy. Thank you very much for joining. >> Thank you for having us. So, we do have some slides um and I'm going to share them while Tracy starts moving forward.
Our slides are broken down into excuse me um sort of two parts. The first part will be mostly financial and the second part will be about um special education and student privacy protections. So, I am going to share my screen now and Tracy will begin um with the slides.
Hold on one second. While you pull those up, I just want to remind us here that if since we are sharing microphones, Joe asked that we pull the microphone close to us because this is being recorded and people at home will need to hear us. So, Excellent. So, good evening. Um, as was
said, my name is Tracy Novik. Um, I'm among the field directors for the Massachusetts Association of School Committees. Um, I'm the one who specializes in school finance. I'm a licensed school business administrator in Massachusetts. Um, in addition to my responsibilities
for MASC. Um and so the initial part of this is really looking at uh budgeting as a responsibility of school committees in Massachusetts and where the parameters are that of that are. Next slide. So as some of you may be familiar and as
I know the school committee certainly is um the um section of master law that specifically outlines the responsibilities of the school committee is master law chapter 71 section 37. Um, we think of school committees in Massachusetts as having four um broad purviews with an additional fifth
because they're the um the employer of record for the purposes of collective bargainings. Uh, as you're aware, I'm sure they have the power to select and terminate the superintendent. They establish goals for the district. They establish policies for schools in the district. And they also review and
approve budgets for public education in the district. Um and these are very specific authorities that are um granted under state law. Um they are required to be followed. Um they're what is true of every school committee in Massachusetts.
Next slide. One of the things that we emphasize um as was mentioned ongoing professional development in addition to um the requirement for professional development initially for school committee members um is something that we that we encourage and when we're talking about
the role of the school committee in Massachusetts we mention um frequently and emphasize to school committees that their four major responsibilities are interrelated and um mutually supporting. And so when they're talking about the budget, um they and making decisions
about the budget and allocating the budget, they need to be allocating the budget in line with the goals that they have set for the district, which is something that again that they're required to do by state law with the policies that they have set for the district um and with their oversight of the superintendent. And again, each of
those other things also should then be supporting the budget. So simply allocating the budget without reference to the goals um is not is not wise. It's not recommended. Um the oversight of the superintendent among other things um includes the fact that the
superintendent is the day-to-day manager and oversight of the budget generally with the um assistant and under the perview of the school business administrator and the policies that are outlined for the district also need to be aligned with the budget. In fact, there's a whole section of um pol of a
policy manual as well as myriad other policies that have to do with managing school finance um because school finance in Massachusetts is so strictly overseen and so strictly regulated. Um and those are policies that we um strongly recommend to school committees that they
make sure are ongoingly up todate. Um we recently did a review of all of the policies in that section and sent them out to school committees. um we make sure that school committees have up-to-date information regarding um things like the purchasing policy as you would be aware was updated a couple of years ago. So making sure that those
policies then set the parameters for the spending that happens not only by the school committee at the broad level um but also by the administration at a more granular level. Next slide. when it comes to the municipal appropriation. Um, and of course in
Massachusetts, uh, school districts may receive a municipal appropriation from a single municipality as you do in Swampscott or regional schools um, receive municipal appropriations from multiple municipalities. Um, and in some cases, municipalities are appropriating for multiple school districts. Um, it's
important to note that by state law, the municipal appropriating authority appropriates only the bottom line of the general fund budget for schools. Um there is not an appropriation that happens beyond that. Um and there is not
um specific authority within that. Um by state law, the municipal authority may not direct specific appropriations. Um and here on the next slide I um included the master law because it's um one of
the only sections I'm familiar with in master law particularly around school fi around finance um that actually makes a point of saying the same thing three times. Um so this is mass general law chapter 71. Chapter 71 deals with um much of the school committee work and
much of the um you'll find a bunch of the school finance laws in there. But the the first section here and the emphasis added here is mine. Um within section 34 is in acting on appropriations for educational costs. The city or town appropriating body
which I believe in Swamot is actually the town meeting shall vote on the total amount of the appropriations requested and shall not allocate appropriations among accounts or place any restrictions on such appropriations. And that of course is because that's under the purview of the school committee. And
then as the section goes along, the city or town appropriating body make may make non-binding monetary recommendations to increase or decrease certain items allocating such appropriations. Again, that means that the town meeting can have a discussion as they are allocating that bottom line. Um, but they are non-binding monetary uh recommendations
and again emphasized for a third time. The vote of the legislative body of a city or town here again town meeting shall establish the total appropriation for the support of public schools but may not limit the authority of the school committee to determine expenditures within the total
appropriation. Um and that is something that we because school committees in Massachusetts are required to be trained within um their early term of office. When we're training school committees on school finance, um we talk a lot about what level of appropriating authority
they have, but then we also make sure that they understand that in their relationship with their municipal um body or bodies, that the bottom line um appropriation is all that that is happening. There is not further um authority that comes from um those
bodies, whatever those bodies may be. Um in some cases, of course, it's things like state councils as well um to the school committee. It is up to the school committee to determine um upon the recommendation of the superintendent and the administration in line with the goals that are established by the school
committee what those appropriations are going to be within the school committee budget. Next slide. Now when it comes to what the school committee does, school committee receives a recommended budget um from the superintendent. Um it is a
recommended budget until it is voted by the school committee and the level at which the school committee um has authority. Um this by the way is under the 1993 education reform law is at the cost is what we call the cost
center level. And the cost center level um are areas that the school committee jointly with the administration establishes of oversight. They frequently um align with although they are not required by state law to um align with the um chart of accounts
which is how you may or may not be familiar. Your school actually app uh school district is required to report their fund their school finance um back to the state every year. Um those are you often referred to as the 1000 level 2000 level and so forth. They would be things like administration,
instructional leadership, teachers, um operations and maintenance and so forth. Um but the establishment of what those cost centers are is up to the school committee to do jointly with the um administration. And then over the course of the year once that appropriation has been voted by the school committee um it
is for the school committee to interact with the administration and be exercising oversight as to not just um what how much has been expended from each cost center but what the administration foresees happening within each cost center. because in education
um you're going to hear more of this from Alicia on the student end, but because um within the the financial budgetary end, so much of what goes on with school budgeting is people. Um every school district in Massachusetts spends at least 70% of their budget on
salaries because we have teachers and nurses and principles and that's how we educate children. um the uh people do things like go on medical leaves and they go on uh parent leaves and they decide to retire and so forth. And so
salary accounts um change very much over the course of the year and the school committee making sure that they're keeping attuned to that which is so much of their spending um is really one of the the main ways in which the school committee exercises oversight over the course of this of the year from one budget um approval to the end of the
fiscal year. Next slide. >> Um and again the the idea here is that um as we said the um the responsibilities of the school committee are interrelated with one another. And
so cost centers are established with the administration so that the at a level at which the school committee then is able to ensure that the goals that they've established for the district are actually being carried out over the course of the year. Um, when I work with school committees on goal setting, one of the things I make sure they they
think about is the fact that if they establish goals for the district and then they don't actually align the budget of the district with the goals, um, then they've passed some lovely language, but they haven't actually put the dollars behind it. So, it's really key that those responsibilities be seen
jointly um, when it comes to the school committee working with the administration. Next slide. Uh so we have some questions about revolving funds and revolving funds are established specifically by master law and are used to support >> question. Y
>> certainly >> hi this is department chair of the finance committee. Thank you for all this explanation. I just had a question if you could just talk about um how if if one cost center is under running what's process to spend those dollars in
another cost center is there is that kind of decision that go back to the school committee or can the school just do it on their own can you talk through that please >> sure so if the if it's a cost center that has been established and agreed to by the school committee um with the administration transfers between cost
centers that were established by vote of the school committee have to come back to the full school committ and votes on money as as I'm sure everyone who's in this meeting or is aware are required to be done in public session. >> So sorry. Um so does that imply that um within the cost center transfers are are
fine without approval is just outside of the cost center. >> Correct. Within tri cost center approval is under the purview of the administration and in some cases um that is then subsidiary depending on how your cost centers are set up. Um there's usually some discretion um that's given both to department department heads and
also to principles. >> Okay, great. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Um so revolving funds um I think are they often um are a bit of a mystery honestly even to to school committee members as they're coming in because it's this sort of other category of money. Um the thing that I think is
important to to realize is that cost centers are um excuse me that revolving funds are very very strictly regulated as well. Um, there are different sections of mass law that actually specifically spell out each of the revolving funds that school districts in
Massachusetts are allowed to have. Um, and in every case, the um, restrictions on spending um, and the oversight that has to happen of the revolving funds is again spelled out within state law. Um, so I did actually include I know that you'll be getting this presentation. So,
I actually included the Department of Revenue has a spreadsheet that actually has all of them. Um, and I I did include that in the presentation, which you'll see in a second. Um, the Department of Revenue specifically says when it talks about revolving funds, um, it separately
accounts for specific revenues and earmarks them for expenditure by a board of office without appropriation. And so, without appropriation means that it's not going back to the appropriating authority in any way at all. um for particular purposes to support the activity, program or service that
generated the revenue. Um so we see this for example with vocational school districts. Um they may have a a restaurant. Um people who who go to the restaurant pay money. There's a revolving fund that is associated with the restaurant. That fund can only be spent on supporting that restaurant. Um
the border officer just to go back to the the quote here with authority to spend from revolving fund can only incur liabilities and spend from the available unspent and unencumbered balance of actual collections. So this is based on essentially this the money that they have. Um and again it is devoted
specifically to whatever it is the section of master lot is um that that appropriates them. Um in most cases they are very very specific um in terms of whether we're talking about shops that happen um within whether vocational or
um or other school districts. Uh in some cases preschool has a revolving fund. Um one that we hear a lot about is school choice and I know that you have a revolving fund because you have um students who are choosing who are coming over to you from the haunt as well. Um again very strictly regulated in terms
of how they can be spent. um and they have to be spent without appropriation. They that that is the department of revenue is very clear in terms of the fact that they exist within this universe. So I did include just over the next couple of pages at least you can just flip through them. Um I'm not going
to read them aloud to you, but this is the the revolving fund for school department programs. This is just straight off of the department of um local service division of local services website. Um I actually keep this up over my desk because I think it's useful. Um, one of the things that I get questions about sometimes are specifically who is
it that actually um, reports on things? What are the reports that have to be filed? Um, and of course this is all being done, you know, within your finance office of your school um, department. But um, I think I do think it's useful to keep in mind that this is something that is very very strictly um,
laid out in law in terms of what has happened. Now, one of the things that I make sure to talk to school committees about, and this particularly comes up with um revenue like school choice or the kind of sort of tuition that you're getting from the haunt is that um these
are these are highly volatile and these are annual funds. Um so, you know, when we talk about school choice or when you're talking for example about the students who are coming to high school, um you have no control from one year to the next as to how many students are coming. Um and that is entirely where that revenue comes from. So if if all of
the students who are you know coming out of middle school in NAT choose to go to private school you will have no revenue. Um there will be no tuition coming in. Um if you have you know if same thing with school choice any of those kinds of things. Um and this is true really of
any of these right? If everybody decides not to go to the restaurant at the vocational school they're not getting any income. So, um it's really crucial for school committees, um as the authority that oversees all of the budgeting to really think of these as
being um funds that are one time. >> Um Tracy, Tracy, can I just interrupt you? We have a question. >> Of course. Sorry. >> Of course. >> You also have a question where you help. >> Thank you. Um I just want cl I just wanted to understand clarity since we're since you brought up the NAT account. Is the NATO account revolving account a
non-resident tuition account or is it a school choice account? >> So school choice is a specific account within the revolving account universe. You have nothing I believe set up as a tuition account but it is a revolving fund. >> Okay. So when when I look at the list that you provided then I should be
looking under non resident student tuition for the sort of the regulations of that account. Right. I would need to double check and actually see how it had actually been set up and I don't actually have that information. I I would say so, but that is that is my speculating rather than my
knowing that for sure. >> Okay, Nick, >> I I it is it was set up as 7171F. So, it is exactly what you just described. It's non-resident and reimbursements for foster care from the state. >> Sorry, it's it's can't be school choice because we take a vote every year
whether or not we're going to allow school choice and and generally we we don't. So, we don't use that. We don't use that um um revolving. >> Okay. Great. I just want to make sure because there are some differences between the two as you look across. So, I want to make sure we're looking at the right line for it. >> Yes.
>> Thank you. >> Yes. And as as the um the implication is school choice also has a whole bunch of other regulations that >> um determine that as well, which wouldn't be true of your tuition agreement. Um in really in all of these cases, I mean, this is even true of
things like athletic revolving funds. Um they're very it's very important to remember that what you're talking about is a one-time fund. Um that could be something different next year. It might be something um that that they have highs and lows um if you track them over
time. And uh when school districts think about this, and I've run into this in other parts of the state that are particularly heavily dependent on some of these kinds of funds um as part of sort of a core portion of their revenue. um they're having so difficult
conversations about how they manage them because they need to make sure that they're being thoughtful about the fact that this isn't something that they can depend on. Um and that they need to be spent in that in that fashion. Uh next time >> I just have a quick question. >> I have a quick question. Um sorry,
>> don't don't we have a contract with Nan? Are we uh is it that volatile? because my understanding is we have a contract whether or not they send x amount of students or not. >> That's true. Yeah, that's true. So that's >> so we're not >> but I think that you know we're starting
negotiations in two weeks. Um and we're certainly looking to expand on the rates that come to come to the home squad >> as of right now. >> As of right now. Yes. >> Thank you. >> And that's one of the reasons that we do the contract the way we did is so we could have cost certainty. Um so so we
would know where where it was because again the volatility with a contract like that just could cause some challenges for the finance committee especially. So we've always gone with a contract with a fixed amount. You remember when we negotiated bringing
um additional students for one year over that was studentbased but even that was one year and and we had talked about with the number that we were looking for and that's how we ended up at that number just so we could cover plus >> right so today it's a fixed number that
goes up by some percentage I think right so it doesn't matter how many kids they send if they go up or down >> that is correct >> and when when you're when you're doing that formula, is is your goal normally to cover whatever the expenses are per
student? So, for example, if it's $20,000 to educate a student, they share the same >> I think we actually get once you factor in transportation, things like this, a little less. So, it's like 19,000 something per there's 94 kids coming from the hunt, but so the goal is to be
in the ballpark. Yeah. But it doesn't always cover everybody. That's that's especially true just because transportation has just gone through a factor. I'm not sure. >> I think the big question that I always get are swamps taxpayers subsidizing NATO students.
>> They are not subsidizing NAT students. I think we've answered that question numerous times. When when we go and negotiate with them, we make very sure that NAT is bringing a positive or flat cash flow.
>> Good. So, >> I just I want to be clear about that because >> you just said something different, >> right? The superintendent just said something different. I can understand potentially why that may not necessarily be true in every single circumstance. So, and I don't know if this is
necessarily the moment. I think we have a dedicated section of the agenda about that, but you know, it's a you know, I'd rather know the fact that sometimes it's a benefit, sometimes it's not. I'd rather make sure that we're all kind of clear about that or if we know the way the contract structured is it's always
cost plus that's a different thing but let's just make sure that we're because that definitely sounded slightly different so come back to >> we'll make sure that um we'll go back and make sure that you have the exact answer one way or another. >> Yeah. Okay. I think I think what happens
sometimes too is if the nant if if we're benefiting from fewer students coming from nant but we're getting the same amount of money then then the student per pupil is going up right and on years where we have extra students coming from nant it it goes down exactly and in the
end it's a it in the end we're we're treating it as we're treating it as a level >> as a as a level playing field I just it's it just speaks to it speaks to the benefit of the contract we negotiated Because before this contract was negotiated, it was app per pupil and and
um citizens of Swampscott were paying more for their students than than NATO was and mostly it was because of that volatility too and and we rectified that with this contract and now we are facing now we need to do it again and um it's a little more challenging because Niant
knows knows what we're doing and knows where it's at. You know what I'm saying? So, so it's just something where we we we need to continue to work on to to have that balance. >> Thank you. >> And while we're on the revolving before we go to circuit breaker, is that the
only revolving account? >> No. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> No, we have athletic, we have preschool, we have um facilities. I mean like the rentals. >> Yeah. Okay. Some of the other ones in theus, those are not revolving accounts. Those are reserve funds or they're other
things, right? Please continue. >> Certainly. Um so circuit breaker is so if you think of um I would call these all special revenue funds. So there's special revenue funds. Revolving funds are under special revenue funds. Circuit breaker is another thing that's under
special revenue funds. Um and this is one where you're the the key word here is about reimbursement. Um you're being reimbursed for something the district has already fronted. So the district provides services and Alicia is going to talk at greater length about the requirements around the provision of
special education services um for the from the district uh both at the federal and the state level. Um but then what happens is that the district then is tracking those expenses on a per student basis. um and based on the amount of expenditure per student there are then
reimbursements that come back to the district ancillary to that on that expenditure already being incurred. Um something that I think is is crucial in terms of this because of the way the reimbursement cycle works is that the best practice and this is something that
you know is not uncommonly discussed among school business administrators is that you use the funds in the the subsequent year. you don't use them in the funds in the year in which the reimbursement is occurring. Um in part because this is subject to appropriation which I know is popular probably with
everybody in this room. Um in terms of terminology um while it is something that is very strongly advocated for not only by MASC but also by uh the Mass Municipal Association and and pretty much everyone um it is not something that is always fully funded. Um as you
may be aware uh a proportion of the tuition of out of district uh for out of district students for that fall under the circuit breaker is now being reimbursed due to the student opportunity act. Um but again levels in terms of reimbursement um do do vary and
part of this is about um because every district essentially is applying for these reimbursements. the expenditures that every district is making are then drawing down funds and because you know the district only the state only has um
as much information as they do um because as Alicia will talk a greater length about this is really about addressing student need. Um how far those funds go and how much they actually are are el um have ability to reimburse varies from year to year. This
is one that we sometimes see a supplemental budget will actually add funds to. Um but again, it's one of those where making sure that you're using the funds in the subsequent year is really considered best practice um among those who um are in school finance. And is that my last slide? I
think Alicia, >> it is. I'm going to jump in now. So, um I part of what we do when we talk to our school committees when we're talking about circuit breaker is we also like to give them a little bit of background on how you get to the point where you have
services that you're providing to your students. Um so, just for a little bit of a primer, we're going to start with um one of our key elements of special education rights and protocols is the family education rights and privacy act. That's furpa. So what furpa does is it
guarantees that students and their families are entitled to privacy and special education students in particular are intential int sorry entitled to confidentiality regarding their personally identifiable data information records collected maintained uh pursuant
to part B of IDA um which is the federal law that goes with our um Massachusetts laws. And what this usually works out to for school committee members is when you have discussions about budget, we encourage our members to be very careful
about how they discuss the budget around circuit breaker and special education funds, etc. Because you can tiptoe very close to the line of violating a student's privacy. Um, if you're getting into nitty-gritty discussions about why are there x amount of paras in this one
grade in this one building, it I live in a town too and it very rapidly becomes very identifiable for those kids. Um, the next thing we talk about is the IEP. The IEP is the individualized education
individual education plan, excuse me. It is individualized for eligible students. And the way this is developed is there's a long process at the beginning by which parents, guardians or the staff at the school can identify a student that they think might need more support. And what
they do is they convene a team. There are all sorts of um evaluations that the student would go through based on the difficulties that they're having. But then the team meets together and the team includes a classroom teacher, a special education teacher, the parent or guardian, um a counselor, a school
psychologist. And school psychologists are actually very important in this process. Um they can very much help acclimate the student to their IEP and to the process itself. Um and a very important part of the IEP is that parent permission is um required prior to
implementing the IEP. Um this is and I'm going to mention this later on another slide. The IEP is very often misunderstood as um what is the district offering this student? It's not the district that's making that decision. It's not the parent that's making that
decision. It's the team. And the law requires that if the team comes to the table and decides upon services for a student, be they in district, out of district, um if it's a 504 or an IEP or if it's a health plan, whatever the team
decides by law, the district must provide regardless of cost. Um and they must provide it in what we call the least restrictive environment. That's um LRE. You'll see Massachusetts and education. We love acronyms. It's acronyms all over the place here. So the
LRE is the least restrictive environment. The idea here being that removal from the general education environment only happens if you can't address the students needs in the classroom and that classrooms designated for partially or substantially separate programs must not be significantly
removed from the rest of the school. your students who have IEPs, 504s, health plans, things like that. They should be part of the school community. Um, we do often see sometimes some extra generated costs around this when we're talking about spaces, especially for um
medically fragile students, etc. The least restrictive environment is the standard that the team must use. Um, and then overall the team and the determination made by the team requires that every student enrolled in your
district is um eligible for a free and appropriate public education, FAPE. Uh, we are in Massachusetts the only state constitution that had public education in our constitution from the very start. Connecticut likes to remind us that they
added it later, but we had it first. So the team determines the services and those services must be provided at no cost. The idea behind the services is that you want your students all of your students um to be um learning the
material covered by MCCAST even though it's not a uh um the requirement it previously was the material covered by it is still the requirement. and then the Massachusetts curriculum frameworks and that the students must be making progress commensurate with their peers which is a little bit of a vague term
but again that's part of the team process and the evaluation process to deter to determine what actually is necessary for that particular student. Throughout all of this there are procedural safeguards that the students and their um families their parents
their guardians have available to them. They preserve their student and their family rights. Um they assure the provision of timely information. You'll often hear people say, "Well, we had a request and we responded to it within 10 days and within 45 days there was an
evaluation." The other thing to be uh very aware of when we're talking about special education is parents can disagree and recommend alternatives. The district doesn't always have to accept the alternatives, but there is a resolution session that can happen through Bessie,
which is the Bureau of um special education appeals, and they can determine through mediation what the student will receive, and that is a binding agreement. So, those are the end of our slides. I'm
going to stop sharing here for a second. Here we go. So, I suppose we'll turn it back to you to see if anyone has any additional questions. >> Um, why don't we start with the finance committee? You guys have any questions? >> I have no additional questions.
>> Hold on one sec. >> I'm pushing it. >> You don't need to push. >> Okay. Not pushing it. uh like just roughly, you know, like percentage- wise, what percent of our high school students fall under one of those four or five acron one or more of those four or five acronyms?
>> I'm not asking for an exact number. >> Jason, I don't know it off the top of my head. So, >> so what what percent of our high school students have a um IEP >> or fall under the >> it's a little over a little over 20
>> LE or all this stuff >> is a little bit over 20% probably went up post >> okay but what about >> FA I'm just asking the appropriate sets for everybody that's 100% >> okay all right so 20% roughly follow or some sort of special education or
whatever you want to call it okay thanks And that's pretty on par with the majority of the state there. Um I can tell you that I'm on a vocational technical regional high school um school committee and our percentage is much higher. We have 53% who have IEPs or 504s. Um but it is hovering in the realm
of 20%. It is increasing year-over-year though. Um and we do see some cities and towns who are getting closer to 30%. As the year go years go on. I would just say we're trying to actively the goal is to get it to hover around 20% or below 20%. It climbed with COVID obviously and
we're trying to get it back down. We're working towards that goal. >> Thank you. >> Once you're on an IEP, do you ever get off or is that all you you is evaluated annually or something or >> Yep. And then so usually there's a yearly review and then every three years you can
>> so it's tricky because you know student might be successful with those sort of parameters in place, right? and then it's sort of a risk to come off of it. So that's why getting people off the IP is really tricky even though the kid might be able to fly and and they're doing great. Um I think
sometimes people are reluctant to >> understandably so. >> Right. And then just as a reminder um school districts are are required to um responsible from age three to age 22. >> I think I think it's important too. I
mean, I've had I've had um three kids on IEPs just just of well, five of four and two IEPs and um and one of my students I wanted to keep on an IEP just for the reason you said because cuz but it was a it was a team decision and um I wasn't
allow he didn't stay on the IEP because in the end of the day it's it's the team decision to put put someone on an IEP and take someone off an IEP. So, I mean I think I think Mrs. Raymond does an amazing job of looking out for um our financial bottom line and really and
really she does a great job of working um with the parents and and um the people that are evaluating to to really get a clear picture of a kid and what they need and what they don't need. >> And um I think that that's really important. And then I think that um
what we're doing with tiered um support, multi-tered support for kids is is what Mr. Kalishman was speaking of, how we're trying to get kids co COVID related issues and and some other kids um off IEPs and off the special services by the
multi-tiered tiered supports. And I think that I think that that's part of our that's part of the expense, but but we're way but we're weighing like being proactive and and working this way because it's in the in the end it's a lot cheaper than an IEP. Absolutely. >> So I just think I think like all that
that that's important like kids have to be on IEPs. Kids come off of IEPs all the time. You know, they come off of even in elementary school. Like my kids went on and off in elementary school and and I just think that's an important point. >> AB: Absolutely. And then one of the
things I'll say too is that the number that Mr. Calman just said that's a snapshot in time. >> So that that could be today >> and tomorrow that number can go to 22%. So it's it's a fluctuating number that
we have to make sure that we have enough money allocated for those students. Like sometimes the the students that um on the either end, the three the 3 to 22, those students are easier to from a financial point of view deal with
because you know they're going to carry on. >> But you could have one, two, whatever students move into district at age three and they could be on full support to age 22. I was just going to say and again I'm not trying to blame everything on
COVID still but um you know I think our middle school is has the highest percentage of students on an IP I think it's I think we're hovering around 22 23%. I mean those are kids that were kind of in the thick of it so when they were they were little. So um again like Miss Wright said that the multi-tered systems of support if you're interested
in my presentation tomorrow night um we can talk about why we're investing in MTSS as well. >> Great. Uh Tara. >> Yeah. I I guess I was just wondering how you allocate like the average cost of each IEP. Like I I'm I'm imagining that there's a huge range, right, from very
little services to heavy heavy services. So how do you attribute the costs and kind of what is the range and maybe what's the average? >> Well, I would say that when Miss Raymond gives her state of student affairs, her sort of update on student affairs that
she would probably be better to talk about that. Like you said, a not a district placement could be $300,000 and somebody with a little bit of support for reading might be, you know, >> almost nothing. >> Almost nothing. Yeah. So, it really I would have to have her up here to answer that question. >> Okay.
>> But it is a wide range. Yes. >> Any other questions um from the finance committee? >> Don't be shy. Really, this is the this is your shot. >> Okay. select board. >> I asked mine already, but um can you
explain a little bit how the um special education costs work with the NAT contract? Is that something we can talk about here or no? >> I think like you mean are we paying for special ed costs from the Hunt students
and we're not right. Right, Mr. Calman? So we are like I guess so we are slightly positive again when I was talking about the number earlier. So we were both right essentially we're slightly positive but when you factor in their per pupil it's a little bit less because they pay for the bus but overall we're slightly positive but with rising
cost of course we're starting to negotiate again. Um but once they hit seventh grade those students are our students. So, >> right. >> Yeah. I mean, we're we're not paying for out of district special ed for NATO.
>> No. >> No. But I'm saying but once the >> within our school system though, if we needed a >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Of course. >> Okay. You're talking about out of district. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. for NA. We are not. >> Wait, just so just just so just so you're clear, anything that's out of
district for NAT because I'm pretty sure the contract says they take care of it. But once a student is our student and they're in the seventh grade and say a number of them have to be on an IEP, it picks up the cost of that IEP. I would have to talk to I would have to look
into it because I do remember some times where there's been students who were not appropriately placed or not um they didn't come over with an IP but then we realized pretty quickly and I do believe that Nant helped with that but I'd have to again check with Miss Raymond. Okay,
because this is this is where my question was going, which is like um the the cost of contract is great to have stability and to understand a baseline that we're going to get every year, >> but that is the volatility of that is the fluctuation of special education. And
>> if you know they come over without IEPs and then we determine they have to be on IEPs, that's not covered in the cost of contract unless there's some clause that does that. And also if they I mean what would we're not involved in the IEP process until seventh grade, right? So
>> So I would just say that most of the time the vets as principal of the middle school for 13 years it >> the it wasn't like a new hire that we had to have because somebody came over. It was more like you have to be in this class, you have to get this service that we already have. >> There have been a few times where we'd
need to get a extra tutor like a onetoone something like that that I would have to ask Miss Raymond. I can't remember exactly how we paid for it. >> Okay. That's that's an important clarification. So Mary Ellen, you just said, you know, if someone's going out of district for, you know, to send a child out of district is >> contract
>> not a small feat, right? So there are a lot of things that can lead up to that that would necessitate services or different levels of an IEP, right, that are costly, but are not sending someone out of district, right? So it's two really different things. Out of district, NAN is paying. if they're in
district and they need services, varying degrees of that that swamp Scott's dime once they get here. >> Yeah. But I think to Mr. Kellishman's point, we have services set up. So So you put one more kid. I mean, it's not like everyone's going in the same class, the same grade. So you're So you're
putting kids in spaces that there already are, but there are instances where someone might come here with a completely different >> um issue, special classroom or or a special one to one or something like that. I mean, that's that's that's where the expense comes. But but I think at
the majority of kids, like we Miss Raymond knows who's coming and who's on IEPs. I mean, we communicate with Nahan. It's not a surprise in seventh grade is definitely not a surprise. >> I mean, there have been plenty of times, too, that we've had students come early because we can provide better services and we have more systems in place. So,
you've, you know, the h will pay us to have a fourth grader or a fifth grader come in. So, >> but I think if if you were to say, well, we already have a classroom. We already have um extra teachers or I don't know what you call an extra question ESPs
>> ESP and that they can already benefit from the ESP. That's that's actually I think in all fairness to the Swampscott taxpayer that that percentage of whatever that ESP cost should be on the hunt, not just totally I don't think
it's just purely sunk cost. I think it should be a shared cost between Swamp Scott and but it but it is it is because it's all rolled in the pupil expenditure, right? We have an average per pupil expenditure. We don't we don't we don't break out.
We we don't charge special ed kids more like like everyone has the per pupil expenditure if we're using $20,000 for it that pays for um the services kids need, right? Like period of discussion. like
like kids that need more services, we don't count as more expensive or we don't differentiate them. We take all the money and we average it >> and we meet the needs of all the kids. I I think like I think I get what you're
saying like Nana should pay for for an aid or an ESP and um it doesn't make any sense because you know we are not making Swamot families pay for services above and
beyond. Like there are kids that need a onetoone basis versus um three kids with one ASP. they might need a single one. Should we charge them more because that ESP isn't being shared with three people and just
with one person? It's just it's getting into the weeds of >> Yeah, it gets a little dicey. >> I just think there's no way to there's no way to amortize it fairly or um there's no way to amortize it. It just doesn't make any sense. the ESP.
>> I think we then open ourselves up to, you know, if we have kids in this district who need a one-on-one, are we then going to charge people extra? I mean, are we are we going to get into that? >> Well, if we need an extra one, if we need an extra one-on-one, we're going to do that through our budget, through our taxes, and through our appropriations.
So, swamp Scott taxpayers do pay for additional whatever the additional needs are. That's that's the point here. We we do pay >> but cumulatively we pay for all >> because the cost of educ cost of educating a student goes up. >> Right. >> Not the cost of educating that student.
The cost of educating all students goes up based on that >> based on need. >> Right. >> Right. >> Is that not right? >> Yeah. I mean we're getting just painfully close to an area that I'm just uncomfortable talking about.
um you know where we can try to answer the question maybe directly but we're just getting to a point that I'm growing uncomfortable about talking one set of students versus another set of students. The answer to the question is the
state's very clear on we have one number. We you know the we are appropriated X dollars and every student represent X dollar or Y dollar and whether that student is on an IEP
whether that student is the star of the football team and doesn't need anything as far as student services go doesn't matter. They have a dollar value. I would say just to clarify, Mr. Raymond just actually messaged me saying that uh we do charge nan over and above the one to1. So if it is some if they do have a
onetoone that's coming over we would charge nan. >> There you go. But again, if it was a co-taught class that we already have a >> already absorbed in that >> it's already absorbed >> in the cost per people. >> And just a reminder for everyone, Verpa, this is one of the reasons why trying
not to single out those families. >> Exactly. Yes. >> But a good conversation. I mean, it's good discussion. Is it really it it's >> good? >> Yeah, it is really great clarifying questions because it gets really gray really quickly. So, um, any other
questions? Uh, anyone else? Jason, Nick, any other questions? >> Okay. >> I just have a quick question. So, just to clarify, anything from the haunt that's out of district, they pay 100%. Anything in district is just in the
grand budget. >> Not necessarily. Not if it come a one to one. >> So, first of all, it's greater than a one to >> a one to one aid. >> Yeah. But if they just needed to be in a special education classroom pot teacher, they would reabsorb that. >> Yeah. I mean, I imagine there's 100 shades between one-on-one aid and
>> Yep. >> not much. So, where do you draw the line and how much is, you know? So, I think that's where trying to clarify a little bit. >> That's right. That's the variable in the budget. >> That's we don't know day in day out what will happen. That's the challenge. Um,
with no other questions, I do want to thank uh Alicia and Tracy and don't know if you have any final comments. >> No, I don't think so. I mean, if you guys have any additional questions, you know where to find us. Um, and we sent you these slides. Technically,
technically, I'm your field director, but um, there are four field directors and you can talk to any of us. There are people in the office you can talk to, too. We do tend to tap Tracy in when we talk about financial things because she does have that Masbbo certification and she is um I I think far better at this
than any of the other field directors. So if you need any more assistance, just please let us know. >> Great. Thank you both very much. >> What else? >> Thank you, Tracy. >> What I'll say, if you guys have any questions, feel free to forward them to me. I will forward them to um MASC with
you copied on that so you can see that. Um, we're happy to get any questions answered, you know, as as best as we possibly can. That's the whole goal of this environment. Thank you. >> Thank you. All right, we will move on to
a discussion on the currentus between the school district and the town. I think when we Eric Glenn and I discussed this in tri chair what when I think back over the last couple of years sometimes the existence of theou and the
understanding of theou during budget season can get a little muddled and it's we don't always have the same understanding or the understanding is reiterated and then turns out it's not interpreted the same way. So I thought it would be good to set a baseline
understanding for us all where we can you know go over each NOU understand as best as we can because not the parties who created the MOUS are not here um although we're still bound by them. So if we can understand what the baseline understanding is and how they we operate
within them that'll sort of maybe take that out of some of the issue during the budget season. >> Yeah. I mean, I just felt like it was a good idea for everybody to hear them and talk through them and make sure that the whatever the reason it was that that previous town administrator and that previous superintendent or whatever came to an agreement, it still makes sense
today and we should keep doing it because a lot of them don't have expiration dates. They just kind of go until we change them. So, >> right. I mean, I as we talked could not agree more. I mean, I know when we were looking at some of this was really we actually have that. I think it's a great idea. I think this is something that
definitely should be done once a year just to make sure that if we don't need something, let's let's put the money elsewhere. >> Okay. >> And also, there are some annual requirements under some of these that I don't know if are necessarily being told
that we're sort of not following all of them. So, if that if they should be amended and that should come out or if we should just follow what they say, we should just have that conversation. So, do we feel that we've found them all or do we or we probably can't be 100% confident, but there's some in our package here.
>> I I mean, I don't know of any others, but I'm just curious, Nick. Did you your confidence level that we think we have them? >> High confidence level. >> Okay. >> But if there's anything that someone else has identified, >> yeah, >> please share it. This was based on the conversations Patrick, Jason, and Cheryl and myself had.
>> Okay. Yeah. >> Many of us, you know, Cheryl was in a different role. Patrick was in a different role. Jason and I Jason also in a different role. while I wasn't here. >> Um, so >> no, but if there's documents that I time on the select board, time on FINCOM, obviously we're more than happy to talk
about any of them. And I think they're really helpful for Jason and I. There's looking at them. The fiscal policy one is the one that we need to look at regularly, I think, and that's either a negotiated or historically informed number, I think, at the end of the day how we get there. But, um, it's
certainly useful to look at them year-to-year and to to understand how to move forward. So if there I think a good starting point, this is what we identified. If anyone in the room has anything that was not included in this list, um you know, we'd love to be pointed towards it so we can look in different places and lift up different
rocks to try to find it. >> Yeah, I agree with Nick, too. Um I think we found them all, but I would not at all be surprised if there's something that we find later that is older that just may exist. We just don't
know. And if it does exist and we were not able to find it, we're very likely not following it anyway. >> Right. >> Yes. >> But it could inform future discussions and planning for how we move forward. >> Okay. So, um the first and our packet is uh the employment agreement for Mass Max
Casper. Is there anything on this one other than they there's a split of the cost or is that >> I think that was it was included for us reason >> we included it because it is something >> is it called I don't hear the split I just see that >> yeah I don't see that either >> so I didn't see it in here >> I the split or the actual contract
>> no like how much is supposed to be split 50/50 whatever it is >> it's not delineated in the contract is employment is >> maybe >> it is somewhere else or Patrick can speak to the split. >> Is it 50/50? Is that what we're doing? >> No,
>> 6040. >> 6040. >> Where is it? >> It is somewhere else because I >> It's in the >> No, it's here somewhere. >> It's in the um >> the from 2018. >> Yes, that's it. >> So, that's an interesting question. What's the Where is the 6040 and >> where is it?
>> What's the breakdown? Um, as Eric just said, it's theou from 2018, the fiscal policy one, I think, >> fiscal agreement. >> Yeah, right here. Facilities director, 60% of salary. >> Great. >> So, it is outlined there.
>> Okay. Um going before we get to that one, uh the next one in our packet is the um Clarkou, the Rex usage of that building. This is the most recent that we've signed. So hopefully everybody has knowledge of it.
>> So no. >> Yes, please. >> So most of the most of these were executed by the town administrator and the superintendent. This is a little different. Is there is there a reason and rationale as to why the the chair of the select board and the chair of the school committee executed these instead
of the town administrator superintendent? first reason that would come to mind but this was well underway before I started is because it's related to property and sort of the disposition of property and the the use and sort of a lease that is not something that I can sign it always the leases of property go
through you all other agreements I am able to sign as are you sure because I I I was of the opinion or the belief that the charter actually specifies that the town administrator would execute these documents upon the approval of the select board so maybe it's just nuance
response, but that was just one thing that stood out that stood out to me. I mean, we voted for this in public session that that was just something that looked >> and the the reason I'm saying it is conversations around Hawthorne and whether or not there would be any extension when we still were unsure whether or not for the three weeks that
I was here when we didn't know if Anthony was staying. Um, that was the conversation I had with KP was it would ultimately come before you all because it was disposition of property and that's not something that had devolved to me in the charter. But let me clarify that and I'm happy to tell you on the 11th. >> Thank you.
>> Where my mistake or clarification is >> and and to that point and I'm I'm only guessing is that uh this the chair signed the agreement because the school building is owned by this by the school district
and not the superintendent. The the school district >> lies with the chair. I'm I'm guessing. I I don't know if that if it's needs to be changed, we'll change it, you know, next year when we do it. >> So, just just kind of logistically, I'm
just trying to think how we're going to do this. So, it's the sounds like what we're saying is most of the cost of the uh operation of that building will continue to be borne by the town because the town's rec department is benefiting from it. I think that's the logic. But then it says the district will maintain
existing building systems. It's a nice little sentence, but I don't know how we is it mean somehow that your team Nick will know if there's some kind of maintenance cost going on to charge that to the school or how do we execute on that? >> Max is both sides of that. >> Yeah. So, Max would know. Yeah. >> Right. But I think the general idea if I
remember the discussions the first few weeks was a major system was unlikely but possible and that was not something that could be borne by wreck. >> Yeah. Um, but in Max's opinion at the time, we didn't have an immediate need and there was not, you know, things were
not near the end of the useful life in a way that we were in danger of doing that in a one-year agreement, >> right? Um, you know, Eric, I think this is is when we when we all go to renew this >> next year, I think we should probably have a deeper conversation about >> definitely, >> you know, who's going to cover what.
>> Yeah, exactly. It's coming and like what what happens god forbid if >> a boiler explodes and and >> all of us because it's as we talked at our tri chair one budget there's only so much money to go around what happens and you know we don't want any surprises on
anyone's side so I think when we go to do this next year we'll have to make it much more >> broad >> more definitive >> definitive on on who pays for what just so you know as you guys plan the budget.
You know, that's that contingency may have to be built in on all sides, right? And no one's looking at a million-dollar boiler bill that we don't know how to deal with. >> And I also think this was kind of a prove it. So that if it didn't work, we were whether it was because there was a
major system failure or there isn't demand, we wreck would not be continuing it and there wouldn't be further >> discuss. Okay. At what point will there be a decision made by the schools as to whether or not you want to keep Clark? >> Can't really answer that question. I'm
really unsure. >> Sorry. >> I think a lot of that will determine with be determined with what happens with the middle school. >> I mean, so hopefully in the next few months we know where everybody lies on that and I think that will really be the driving force.
Yeah, I I completely agree with that wholeheartedly. >> Okay, any additional questions on this one? >> Moving on to the util utility reserve usage agreement. >> I I believe this one's expired. It was
an FY25. Make sure that the support was there necessary in a new building. So it is no longer operative unless I'm missing something. >> Does the school school committee agree? >> I agree. >> So I I have a I have a serious question about this. I'd like to know when we
when we're is this the time we're going to discuss thisou because I think that um the school is in violation of thisou. I don't know if this is the arena you want to have this discussion or how you want to go about doing this, but my my
issue here is in the 25 budget, the schools had a line item for $175,000 for the utility at the elementary school. When I read this agreement, it
says to use those funds to offset that amount. That is not what happened here. The full amount short I think 16,000 or 20,000 was used for the utility. So I
think there's a serious problem with thisou and and it appears to me that the schools are in violation of thisou. So >> thank you for your com. Thank you for your comment. just send me an email and we'll try to get you an
answer on that one. >> Well, actually my my question is to the select board and to the finance committee. Am I the only person in this room that feels that thisou is very clear? The
word to me offset means to offset not to fund the entire utility budget. >> Yeah. My my recollection of the discussions when this was put in place was we thought the costs were going to be X or the historical costs were X some
number of to run the utilities of the previous buildings. The worry that and I there was some debate whether it was utilities and maintenance when it was first discussed. I think it might have morphed from you know certain certain costs of running the building not just utilities but the way it was written was
utilities. But yes, I agree that we I'm just making up numbers a bit here that the plan was to have a $200,000 budget for utilities in the school budget and maybe that was 175 and then 200,000 of you know reserve that in case it ended
up being 375 there'd be covered not if they you know that not everything was covered by this money. But I'm generally in agreement with what you're saying Marielle. >> Can you uh is that the is FY25 the year in which
There ended up being nothing put in the budget. >> No school. That's FY26. >> That's FY26. In FY25, there's a line item 175. >> Schools presented a budget 175 for
electricity. It's on page 65 of their school budget presentation, 175. And out of that 175, some of the funding was going to come out of their extended days. So if you go back to page 65 in the school committee line item
budget, they were very clear they were going to use 175. >> And then the final budget that's >> Go ahead. Sorry. >> What was the actual number that they used? >> They used the entire amount. They used the 175.
They used the 175 from >> from the reserve. >> From the reserve. >> It's 200 in the reserve. >> 200 from the reserve. Let me see if I have that. >> I don't think I have the final. I don't have that sheet, but
>> help us understand. So, where where's the So, they use the money out of the reserve and not out of the budget. What is the what's the concern? So, here's the the agreement was that we put $200,000 to offset the bills, right?
That's what it says here. They budgeted 175. Their year-to-ate spending was 196, which means the offset would have been $21,000. >> Okay. >> So, the fund should have 179,000
in it. >> Reserve fund. The reserve fund should have 179 and it does not. >> Patrick, do you know the balance of the reserve fund? >> Where is it? >> That would be Patrick. That would be So,
where's the 179? >> Maybe that's a question we have to send to the school committee. >> Yeah. >> Where's the 179? >> So, to the Yeah. So to the chair, did did those were those were those funds? >> I happy to get you the answer. >> Okay. >> One way or another, the answer is what
the answer is. And we can put this year's discussion behind us. If it's if it's whatever it is, I guess want to claw back the 179. We'll clarif >> I I don't think you have to cut anything. I think it's right in your their revolving account.
>> I didn't interrupt you. Please don't. >> You're right. I'm really sorry about that. I bet you're sorry about that. Um, Suzanne, we will get you the answer and whatever it is will be. It'll be as transparent and we >> we need to go back to whatever year is
let us know. >> So, >> I'm just wondering like have we not ever discussed this in the year or so year and a half since it occur? Like >> many times before I feel like it has and have we not found >> we were given we were given misinformation. We were sent misinformation
and I'm I'm continue to try to give accurate information. I mean, the information is right here. So, what happens is at the end of the year, budgets close at the end of the year. So, you wait until at the end of June. So, on the beginning of July, you go
into July, you reconcile. on September 11th when the schools release their information from the year end and you you look at the end of year numbers it's very clear that there is an issue. So you're saying from September of 2025
correct? September 2025 is when information was finalized at the school committee meeting. >> So nothing was ever discussed from that point to now to clarify. I I find that hard. >> I think it's been discussed. I just don't think we've gotten conclusive >> concurrent answer.
in the 20 at the 25 meeting um when Miss Stella presented um her budget um summary or budget I don't know what that's called. It's like a budget update. She gives like a memo four times a year. And she said we used
all but 4,000 and change of that of that reserve money. So, I think that I think that to your point, Glenn, I think asking Miss Stella to just give a breakdown of of what that money was used for or something is is fair. >> Yeah. >> I mean, is it fair?
>> Should definitely should definitely find out for sure. >> Yeah. >> According to that presentation, she's saying, you think there's $4,000 in the reserve? >> Yeah. I mean, she says town meeting appropriated 200,000 for free cash for utilities. The Swans cut elementary. We
used all but $4,017 for our agreement with the town. We kept the money unspent so that it would fall back to free cash. >> Right. Just to be really clear, I just want to be super clear here. I I feel that the schools are in violation of thisou and which always worries me with
theseus. So, >> but but again before before we jump to conclusions, I just want to get the information from Miss Stella before we're making >> sure these these accusations against >> the school committee or or anyone else. Let's just get the information and then
we can have we can have a discussion. >> Everything I am presenting here, just so you know, everything I am presenting here and I've presented before is just what is public information, what is right in front of you to offset. >> Yeah. And it sounds like it sounds like
the 4,000 is maybe the 196. >> I have I have no >> plus four is the 200. >> So Glenn, if the question then I think is >> understand >> was the 175 and the line item spent and it I just don't want the question to only be about the 200k reserve like it
should also be addressed with the 175 line item for utilities. >> Right. We need to know the total amounts. Exactly. Yes. Versus the 175 plus. >> Right. So whatever question is sent to me, >> okay, >> I will get you the specific answer of
that. I would ask you be incredibly specific on your ask. >> That's what I ask. >> I think it I think it needs be not just about the spend, but did 175 remain in the budget like somewhere else or whatever. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> That answer one of one of the things said earlier um are we are we in
agreement that this is no long this is done expired because >> right that's a good point. >> I just want to get that clear because the original plan for this I think was We're going to need this until we get the solar panels in place and then until that happens we so but early we just kind of quickly said this is expired we're done. So I just want
>> Exactly. Because there's zero budgeted this year. >> Right. >> And that was that was an issue in itself and I thought we were this is FY26 we're in right now. Right. >> Um that we're >> how are we paying utilities this year? >> 200,000 this year. We we >> we did another 200,000
>> under this agreement. Right. >> It's the second year we've had it. >> So it's not expired. Not not well heading into the current year we haven't we haven't decided the you know the FY27 budget but right now it's not expired. I agreed. >> So this goes to the point that I was making at the beginning that it says
FY25 >> we would I I think without Jason and I going forward reporting to chairs full committees however you all want to do it on what we're doing. I would read this and I think anyone that is not sitting in this room would read this and say that it was done in FY20 like it's a
single year agreement >> say it rolls over. >> No, but it does say it says future recommendations for appropriations to the school operating budget will be determined each fiscal year by mutual agreement between the town administrator and the superintendent if necessary. >> So it's it has a sentence that says this can keep going if you guys agree. So for
26 the mutual agreement we all need to understand was what >> we already agreed and town meeting approved that we put another 200,000 into this fund >> but there should be another >> but is one of these >> should be yeah >> yeah I mean one of the things that we
were >> one of the things that we were guided on is you know these these agreements this is a perfect example um need to be done yearly >> right >> you know especially if we're talking appropriation one way or another, one
fund or another. And you know, technically and and legally, it's at the end of fiscal year, this agreement goes away. So, another agreement has to go in its place or else it's null and void.
Now, there I'm I'm assuming somewhere there is this version dated May of 2025. >> There is not. I I sure as h I sure as hope there is. >> There is not and has produced that. So I >> I've never seen it. So
>> I've not seen it. I've not heard about it. So I would lean towards the side of there is not. I I will I will also say as gingerly as possible is some of the agreements of prior administration
there were severalus that were done that I definitely would not do today >> because it is to Miss Fletcher's point it convolutes what an act what the real budget is and whether the budget it is a
million dollars or a million one. I feel we should be transparent with the community that it should be a million one instead of a million. >> So these type ofus to me really shouldn't exist. If if the school
district I'm throwing it I have no idea. School district needs $200,000 for for electricity should be in the budget should be funded by the town. But then the town then town meeting knows >> it. It's not hidden behind something like this. And there's a couple like
these that I just feel in prior administrations the money was hidden. And this is something I'd like to get away from if at all possible. >> What's the money hidden? The money was in. We had to vote to appropriate $200,000. Town meeting knew that there was an appropriation. town meeting knew
that there was a memorandum of understanding that there would be assistance in the event you went over the 175. So I think the transparency is is absolutely there. I think the point is that it it it's the average resident lay person that's not really in this as
we all are. You know you're having to go through and figure out where there's anou and add that figure in to the bottom line budget. I think to your point Glenn you're just trying to say overall let's just have one number >> budget. I'd like to hear what the finance committee thinks. >> I think I think in general we do that. I
think this was an exception because of the new school. And I think that I think that um >> I I think that this $200,000 could still be in the town budget if we if our electricity expenses were less than, you know, 175,000, which was what we
budgeted for. I mean, this this would still be there and we spent it because it was there to offset the additional costs. But and and going forward, I think I think I don't know what happens to the next year's if this is even if we
I mean obviously a different value has to be um >> assigned to this and I think that we can't do it without um max because you know we have the new solar panels on. I don't know I don't know how long they've been working for. I don't know if
they've been calibrated or or whatever. It's just that was that was part of the plan is like to get it up and running. So I think that >> I I mean >> I I think >> I I have to I have to agree with Suzanne because the I think generally Glenn we
do try to do exactly what you are saying and then there are these one-time situations where to add it to the budget and then to subtract it is almost more painful because it becomes a situation that for the lay person who is not
involved is like well why is why are we taking $100,000 away from schools and even though you can explain that it's utility based it's always going to be a teacher or a class you know like something student facing that feels like it's going to be lost but it was never there long term
>> I mean that's that's exactly why we did this in the first so right >> I think it was a great idea >> it you know if we look at the number of these though there's not just one right there are many so maybe it's now becoming the norm for us to do anou whereas it should be us maybe with a
better budgeting practice right so that it's already included in there, >> right? That's kind of what that's kind of what I'm driving at. I mean, yeah, there's always going to have to be these for >> these one-offs. But the the more we can put in the budget, I think the better. And again, just to circle back, >> we'll get you the answer because I want
to know the answer. I think we want to know the answer >> and then we'll deal with whatever that answer is. >> That's it. >> Yep. >> Okay. Moving on to the September 17, 2020 uh
2018 agreement between the schools >> and the town. >> This one covers >> I'm sorry, Katie. >> Yes, please. >> I really don't want to ask this question. >> We're going back. >> Well, I don't feel like we maybe maybe
this is in the forum, but I don't I don't feel like we just settled anything there. I mean, yes, we need to ask question. That's fine on that. But about the go forward approach here, we just all said a bunch of different things and said, "Okay, let's move along." But I don't know the direction that we just gave. Are we gonna have anou next year
or no? >> So at least >> I mean isn't this wouldn't this be a good place to kind of >> one currently? Do we have clearly we need one currently because you don't have anything in your budget for it? We need one for this year. >> Let's talk about fiscal year 2026 because as Eric said >> I'm talking about 27. >> I know I'm going to start there and then
we'll go to go to the next. >> Okay. So for 2026, the understanding is we've already allocated the $200,000 although theou is talking about it as >> offset >> an offset. It we it sounds like perhaps
it is there is no line item in the budget. >> So it is not being used as an offset. So then that has to be a discussion of whether that follows theou >> there's much choice at this point. Right. Obviously, it doesn't. Right. >> We voted the 200,000 already in order to
dedicate. >> Okay. >> Right. And to your point for for FY27, >> I think it's there's a valid discussion that needs to be had. >> Um I think we'll have more information after we see our budget tomorrow
and it's presented in public. Invite you guys to listen in. and you know when we approve or do whatever we're going to do with the budget on February 5th then that starts the clock we eventually go to finance committee so we can
definitely have those conversations about what do we do for FY27 um I think we'll have more clarity going forward but to your point if we need to come back and have this kind of discussion about that FY27 I think we do that right I think we have that
discussion but tonight we're not going to solve that issue because it's December 21st and we haven't even seen or discussed our budget for next year till tomorrow. >> I get that. But I I'm actually I think on on your side, Glenn, in the sense of
like there's utility costs for the school. >> The solar panels are going to be operating for most of FY27, >> right? >> We're not going to know definitively what that's going to do. So one argument could be that's a good reason to keep having this type ofou
or you can say you can make our best estimate like you do with everything else. Relatively speaking this isn't that big of a cost in the overall school budget. So I'm not really sure why we single this thing out more than any other thing to have a you know a reserve account for it. I know there's an
argument back and forth, but I would think with Max be able to predict within a reasonable amount to just put it in the budget, >> right? >> Like why do we need another one of these? Clearly, it's causing a lot of confusion.
>> Um >> I agree. >> It's a pittance compared to teacher salaries or whatever else, right? That may fluctuate as well for various reasons. So >> you know what we can do is we can have Max Jason let's have Max come to a
future meeting you know after maybe after the you know could be on the 5th what wherever and let's let's talk about this and have him give all of us his reasonable assumption of what's going to happen in FY27 so we all know and to your point right if we need to have this
or X dollars in a reserve reserve account for another year we do that but Max will have that understanding? We certainly don't. No one in this room does. >> So, I'm sorry to belabor the point, but then could we just agree if that conversation is going to occur that for
fiscal year 27 that it would just be used as a backs stop for utility and not to fund the entire line? >> Why don't we have a conversation? Why don't we have the conversation with Max and find out what the needs are because might be able to get pretty close in there and then people can make a
decision as to whether or not to this or to just put it in the line item. >> I see Katie's asking preliminary before that like there's going to be money in the budget for utilities. >> That's sort of right. That's what I'm asking >> as a baseline. >> I don't want to speak >> I would hope so. >> I don't want to speak for Charl, but I I
would as Miss Fletcher said, I would hope so. >> Okay, great. >> And I think just to put a pin like Max does have an idea of what it should generate and now we have a year and a half of data. So, it should be a much better estimate than we would have had a >> couple years ago
>> prior to the building opening. So, >> I'm agreeing with everyone, but I think Max has a lot more information. It would be really useful to dial it in. >> Right. Okay. Great. So, we agree that this exists for 2026. We agree that for 2027,
this will be a conversation between Max and the superintendent and the town administrator to come back to both all three boards to understand what it needs to look like for 27. It is not an assumption that it exists like this for 2027 right now.
>> Excellent. >> Thank you, Doug, for >> a point. >> Okay. So, now we'll move on to September 2018's agreement. Um, this one's a little bit more cumbersome. >> We've already
>> Yeah, a little bit old. >> So, this is related to reporting and I sort of touched on something that I would love to introduce or socialize as an idea going forward, which is from a budgeting standpoint and this year the horse was sort of slowly leaving the barn as I came. But to have an idea of
like the way we should look at budgeting is total revenue, shared expense subtracted from that and then either a historic or negotiated balance between town and school operations. And so that way that informs every future dollar and every I I just this is not what it not what it's specifically getting at. This
is just talking about how we report expenses. But I would love to take the outline of this and be working with the school committee through Jason and through you know all of you as well to come up with something or FY27 will be difficult but certainly to inform this is how we would like to move forward
that it's just a very straight baseline to limit the discussions you know shared services will be something we all discuss and agree on and then can look at year to year certainly to tweak but to really just formalize a process where we all have a really good idea of where
future dollars go, but also, you know, what we can anticipate for spending. And as shared services increase or decrease, that also would, you know, give us a real idea of what might be available to us to spend. Healthcare obviously is one to me that is troubling just because I have no idea how high it will be. Um,
and so making sure that we all agree on what those shared services are, which this starts to do. This gives us that outline. Um, I just wanted to before we get too deep into this, I want to introduce and socialize that as an idea that I would love for us to work on and come back to you all with a framework. It's hard for 27 to be completely frank,
but it will really help us going forward to to give everyone guard rails. >> I'm sorry, Nick. I'm not really sure what that means. Uh, is that how is that specifically different than what it is right now? This is about reporting to Desi and so I I just want to have a
broader discussion is what I wanted to introduce as an idea and I've waited for this is the example to to bring this into the discussion to say we have total revenue we have shared expense and then whether it's a negotiated or we based on historic numbers of what that split in
town and school operations is. So this this is very specific to what Desi is looking for every year. It may be different when we all look at what is important to Swanscott or how we want to prioritize spending. So, I just wanted to use this opportunity to socialize it.
I'm sorry to take us off this 2018 agreement, but this is something that just outlines exactly what the assistant town accountant and town accountant are supposed to be working with the business administration folks on. Whereas, the the idea that I wanted to share was something that I would love to either hear feedback or let everyone think
about and hear feedback in the future. So Nick, >> I think it's a you you bring up a great point because I think that this is exactly the type of thing that you and Jason together can figure out that really isn't something that all of us need to debate because it's pretty basic
in terms of and and is any of this actually being followed now? Is this the >> is this actually in place? >> Speak Patrick >> out of curiosity. >> Yeah. Um I have had a hand in the reporting in the past for this. >> Right. Um so this is being followed.
>> Okay. >> Um obviously it's out of data, hasn't been revised since 2018, right? >> So the reporting has been consistent under this policy each year for um the school's purposes of reporting to DESIE. We prepare the information and review it with the school business manager.
>> Um but it like Nick said, this is an opportunity where this could be definitely revisited. I think >> makes perfect sense that at that level that the two of you would be working on on following this data. Sorry. >> I think uh Amy before she left was
working with Estella on something similar and I think Martha Cyber also had experience in sort of the revenue sharing um setup. And I think in looking around at other towns, I think a lot of other towns do it, you know, where they look at, you know, common expenses,
deduct those, see what, you know, the additional revenue is, and then get allocated between town and school. I think >> I think in Lexington it's like 76% to the school, 24% to the to the town of
additional revenues. Um, and yeah. >> Yeah. I think we did a study with the Collins Center. I want to say it was in 2018 that this is probably part of a result of that. >> Um the to see you know where there might be efficiencies between school and town and overlap. Um so it's a pretty common
practice and I think most towns and school districts it's definitely something that the two of you >> I would also anticipate the fiscal management review that will be done in the spring would give us additional ideas whether it's resurfacing things that have done >> been done in the past. >> Um and I didn't speak to percentages
specifically because I really do think that's a subject both for Yeah, >> historic review, but feedback from the elected leaders that guide Jason and I from a policy level. >> Um, so >> I practically speaking, is it you take
the budget, you take shared expenses out and then you divide or you take the shared expenses along in as part of the budget and then you divide the whole but and say you're responsible for your percentage of healthcare, you're responsible for these or do you subtract
them out first and then divide what's left? You could do either >> the way that I think makes sense. And do you have a comment? >> No, I was just say I think Patrick Patrick could help us understand what historically you've actually done
because this is you're you're this is about the reporting. >> No, I'm sorry. I'm asking about >> what Nick's getting to, which is what our thought bubble is right now, which is how do we maybe want to do this going forward? And I was asking how is it done? Is it done one way over the other.
Is it preferred based on, you know, the municipalities that Eric, maybe you have some knowledge of how do they do it? I'm just curious. >> People do both. The one I've seen the most is there's the total income, total revenue, the shared expenses is just subtracted from that and what's left is what is divided.
>> Okay. >> Following a historic trend or a negotiated number depending on how everyone wants to move forward. Um, so you know, it' be like 75 million, 25 is out, and then you split the last 50 however Okay, there there's obviously also sometimes
>> opportunities for you know whether it's service sharing if with something like HRT it or >> that things could shift back and forth between a shared expense and not but when we're looking at the really it's you know it's healthcare it's right >> op you know it's the things that everyone thinks of that are expenses
shared >> shared broadly I'm sorry go ahead >> and you know and some towns you know have you know different approaches on building the budget and you look at around you know Hamilton went for instance they have multiple joint meetings over like the
whole year and it's there it's not a tri chair but it's quintuple chair because it's two towns and two board four boards and one uh collective school committee and you know they get together and they meet and discuss the budget and so does
you know other towns um and some towns do what Nick said sort of an allocation process and then other towns I think like uh Arlington ington does like a percentage increase, an agreed upon percentage increase to the school budget. That's sort of one percentage for general education, one percentage
for special education, and then um a factor for school enrollment plus an additional amount depending on what their strategic plan is going for. And then that becomes obviously one number, not the sort of split out sort of >> this is what you're getting for special education, you get one number, but sort of how they >> what the formula is
>> set sort of the growth. So like I think it would be interesting to look around and see what are others doing and what's working and how um you know not necessarily that what they're doing is better than what we're doing but you know we can we can try something and
maybe that leads to better result and you know and especially when we have tight budgets and um tight budgets require difficult conversations and decisions so we have to all be on this on board and you know work together. That's a great point because I mean
every town and city and the state is facing the same right similar situation. So why reinvent the wheel. Maybe there is a town that is doing that has a formula of some sort that um is one that would help us here, right? But maybe that's something Patrick and Cheryl can kind of flush out or at least get some
comps to understand to help you too when you you know try to talk about it. >> So back back to the actual >> Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, >> that's a great topic. I but I'm just are we this is seven eight years old now.
Are we know Patrick's saying we're pretty much living up to it, but are we should we commit to rewriting one for this year if we're going to continue to do it? Happy to do it. Yeah, >> Nick. Yeah, >> I think that makes sense, Eric. I mean, it's >> a lot has changed in seven plus years. So, again, this is one of those things
that needs to be refreshed. You know, this one's every couple years and this will make sure you know to, you know, Mr. Schneider, you're a good point. Is there a way that someone else is doing it that is just cleaner thinks is the best thing? So, I think turning it over
to Jason and Nick and team to come back and see what they can come up with. >> Yeah. And I do think we should be a little bit clear about expirations on these. I mean, I think if if we're thinking about revamping uh budgetary
breakdown in next for next year, then maybe this is a one-year situation, but then if it goes if we do do that and then we have we don't need this or we need this in a different form that maybe it lasts five years or something that makes sense from a financial standpoint so that
>> we're not having to do all the things every year because it's not practical and we won't do them to be fair. And so like let's try to set oursel up for success. >> Does anybody else have any specific questions or comments on this? >> It might be helpful with these if you
get on like a start date because as far as I can tell they're all different start dates. So that's going to be very confusing and time intensive. >> You should just have it. >> I'm sure there's a reason why, but >> something to think about. >> I'd like to task you too with that.
>> Yeah. I mean, I think we could do a start and end and post them on the website. >> Great. >> That's the easiest way to do it so everyone has access. It's not a question of where they are who future Jason and Nick aren't calling each other asking where they're saved. >> You know what this is?
>> That sounds very transparent. Thank you. >> That's a good idea. >> Okay, everybody's good for this one. >> Doug, did we cover all our bases? >> I'm thrilled. >> Okay. Um, next one is the special
education reserve fund. This is from March of 23, but was updated in September of 25, thoughts, feelings. Okay, so I'll start with this one. Um, this one's problematic. This this entire document is problematic. How we do this
is problematic. I you know just as Suzanne mentioned earlier, you know, personally I have um one adult son who profoundly disabled. We went through the district. He's 29 now. So I'm fairly confident. I know a
lot about special ed law and how to circumvent special ed law. But when we had our meeting with the MESC last week, I I mean we we were taken to task about
this particular transfer out. There was some very unhappy people. We met with them and and this a little a little bit of the history and the genesis of all this. Um this goes back to a prior town
administrator. This is the one of the things they talked about and we've talked about at Nauseium for many years is circuit breaker. So we don't up to four or five years ago as the two individuals stated how it's
supposed to work and under state law. We had funds come in for circuit breaker and we had funds remaining in circuit breaker for the falling out. It cascaded through once that was taken away by the
prior administrator and we had to set up this because again as you reheard the law it's the responsibility of not only the school district of the town to fund special education dollars. It's it's
really clear. There's no debating it. It is what it is. So, in a perfect world, we somehow figure out a way to give us a circuit breaker back and that makes a lot of ills go away. But assuming that that probably can't happen this year.
The thing I think I'd like to focus on is the transfer out because and just if you could read it here to request a payment from the special education reserve fund, the school department will provide details of current expenses compared to budgeted.
Current circuit breaker balance and the invoice that invoices that require payment. So we'll start with the invoices that require payment. That's the first little I'd call it a yellow flag that went up. This payment request will be sent to the
town administrator and the director of finance administration to be included in the next AP warrant. I don't quite know what AP means but whatever that >> the expenses will be charged directly to the reserve and the warrant will be approved like other warrants at the school committee and select board
meetings or their designate appropriations may be excuse me appropriations require the majority vote of the school committee. The challenge Okay, I'm sorry. School committee and select board or the designate to utilize
this reserve fund before a request for a transfer can be completed. The school department must provide documentation that the circuit breaker balance has hit the funding floor of $600,000. This is what they were talking about earlier. It's fairly easy if a if a family moves
into town. You don't have to do that. Okay. And this happens. Something happens to a child in district. They've been a gened student general education student for however long they've been here. And an incident
happens and that student now goes from sorry costing $20,000 a year to costing $550,000 a year. Right now we have to come and ask permission for those dollars.
And although there's no names attached to any of this, if someone's paying attention, not that anyone ever does, but if someone is paying attention, not too difficult to figure out who that family or student is. And
I certainly had an aha moment because I haven't thought of that little aspect of it. So, I don't know what to do about that other than we have this reserve fund. If we need it, we tap it. End of story. I don't even know if
that's legal to do. I don't know. But to go through all of this, there are too many parties who know what's going on. And our job in the school department, as you heard what they said about across the state, is to protect the privacy of
the student and the family. So, I'm really uncomfortable with this and I think it's a a discussion we should a general okay has to be very general I'm going to shut it down a general discussion
because it could happen to any one of us sitting in this room and would you want to know and would you how would you feel if other anyone other than the school department who has a fiduciary responsibility to keep that privacy
And now it's shared with other people and you guys don't have that responsibility. You do that because we're great human beings, but you don't have to. So, I am uncomfortable with this.
I don't really know what to do about it. And I'll open it up and you can tell me I'm being completely ridiculous. I don't know if I even disagree with you on that one, >> but >> looks like Suzanne's got a got some good thoughts. I I just this this whole thing came about because a few years back
there was a deal made between a a select board member and a former school committee member and and about trying to balance our budget and and we agreed to or it was determined to pay down half use half of our circuit breaker and at
the time it solved a lot of problems and but Mrs. Raymond had huge reservations and she would agree that this isn't a great idea and she would much rather have the circuit breaker funded to its full amount. And I think that that's what we should be talking about and I think that that discussion has to
include um Mrs. Raymond because she sort of understands how to build up the circuit breaker. But but we do need to get the cir she would much rather have the circuit breaker at the full amount than have this reserve fund because then it's under our control. we don't have to ask for the money and it's the way it I
mean best practices have is to have your full circuit breaker and and um we haven't had it and so we've had to sort of just just do these sort of jerryrig these solutions and I think that we just need to figure out how to how to how to we can't ask you for money to put in the
circuit breaker it's not doesn't work like that it's not allowed right so we have to start we have to start building up our circuit breaker by um by having other money into our budget that I don't I don't know I don't know >> I I have a question to >> be honest with you I don't know how it
works but >> yeah I mean on one of the earlier slides it says it's appropriated the circuit breaker is appropriated annually by the state legislature >> right >> and it reimbures costs already incurred so the onus is on our district to tell
the legislator legislature what we have incurred so is it is it a recordkeeping challenge that that the onus is on our district to kind of prove that we have to spend this money,
>> isn't it? >> No, we've already we've already we've already spent the money. >> We've already spent the money. So, why isn't the legislature just reimbursing us? >> Spend down you have to spend down your circuit breaker every year, right? Yeah. and and we only have 600,000 or change in our circuit breaker instead of
instead of a million, which is sort of what we're allowed to have, right? And so and so sometimes we spend that whole amount >> and then that's what this that's what this reserve is for, right? For them to sort of replenish it or to pay for whatever. But but if we had the whole
amount and we only and we had to spend 800 if we spent 800,000 and we have that 200,000 left over, we're allowed to prepay the next year's tuition. >> So to so we so we're allowed to already to we're allowed to already make a dent in that in that budget for the next
year, right? But right now we don't have that opportunity. We only have 600,000. So if we spend that, we don't have $400,000 left to prepay tuition. And that's what and that's what we need. And I think that that would help a lot because because we would already have that certainty that we had $400,000
worth of tuition already paid, right? >> Well, what I don't understand is how we receive more from the legislature. >> Oh, so it's subject to appropriations because they don't fully fund it. >> Yeah. Right. It it's like so many other
things that they and so the 75% >> mandate >> the 75% reimbursement that they offer is once we meet a threshold on spending on a particular student >> it's 75% above that it's not 75% below that. >> Okay. >> So it's a sort of lagging re because it's reimbursement anyway. So we're
getting it after it's been spent. We get it sort of for the >> the future year not you know we've spent it and we'll have it for next year basically right >> if they fully fund it. >> Thank you. So, I can answer maybe a couple of questions. It is, and we've said this a lot to this group. It's
complicated. Um, Miss Raymond knows this probably better than anybody, but I'm going to, this is, uh, Cheryl yesterday sent me some information, and my question was, what do most districts do for circuit breaker? Do they do like we do it, which
causes a challenge, or do we do like we used to do it up to four or five years ago? is we always have enough money a year before. And before I even get into this, the good part about having the money early and prepaying these bills, we're not paying whatever that cost
increase is the next fiscal year. We're paying it early. That saves us money. But here is Cheryl's um answer to my question. In general, I would say most D most districts carry 80 to 100% of their balance on a going forward basis.
80 to 100%. personal from Cheryl in Ipsswich in Littleton where I worked they both carried their full balance over. Then some questions below is the wording for the balance allowed to carry over. Is there a timeline by which districts need
to spend money received through circuit breaker reimbursement? The answer is yes. Money received through quarterly reimbursement from year end claiming cannot carry forward more than one fiscal year. As an example, FY23 reimbursements must be spent on circuit
breaker eligible expenses in FY23 and or FY FY24 and cannot be carried into FY25. Money received through extraordinary relief reimbursement must be spent on circuit breaker eligible expenses in the
same fiscal year in which it was received. For example, extraordinary relief received by a district in May 2023 must be spent in the FY23 budget and cannot be carried to FY24. The legislature is really clear why they set
this up. and a a vast majority of districts of towns and cities do it the way we used to do it and did it for years and years and years and years and years. And it has been a
challenge since that has changed. And now, you know, as Suzanne said, we're happy to have Martha, you know, make the again make the presentation. But before that, for right now, this
transfer is out language needs to change because again, I'll say if it was your kid, your family, your neighbor, and something happened that you could that the majority of people can figure out,
that is a problem. >> Right. I just want to make clear that I I'm certainly committed to supporting the funding and I would prefer that it not become so personal an issue because
the principle of the thing is that we're supporting this funding and we don't need to be convinced that we need to support it because it could be personal to us. Like I'm committed to it so it doesn't need to be personal anymore. Okay. >> We're statutoily responsible for the funding. So
>> yeah. Yeah, >> we're automatically committed. But I just I just want to add some some light there. There was no school committee member involved in in um making a recommendation on how to how to deal with the 2024 budget. We were at a very
serious impass select board member. >> Excuse me. >> Did you mean just a select board member? >> It was just a select board member. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And that was me. So, as a select board member, we were at a very serious impass and I was asked by both the town administrator and the superintendent to get involved. And I got involved and was
able to bring them together and the superintendent and the town administrator and the director of finance and the school business director were all involved in putting together a budget that worked. And part
of the budget that would work would be to use the funding and to bring the circuit breaker fund down to a level that was an average level over the past eight years. And I think that was like half a million dollars. >> One of the other um stipulations with
doing that was the schools would have to go back to filing for Medicaid reimbursement. The schools had stopped filing for Medicaid reimbursement over a period of four to five years with a loss of approximately $480,000. So that was put into place.
Prior to that, the school committee and the finance committee for well might only be you, Eric, who was on the finance committee. One of the problems that was always faced with the school budget was in the event there was not enough money under special education and
to make sure that there was some type of a balloon or a reserve account so that if that did hit the school budget the school the school budget wouldn't have to tap into its regular funds. It could jump into this special reserve and that
was another mechanism to help protect the school budget. So that's that's the clarity on that. Other than other than the um some of the protection of the identity of a student, I don't know uh what the other challenges have been
because right now how much money is sitting in the special education reserve fund. Do you >> don't know and there's nobody here that can answer that. Huh? >> I think it's I think it's my notes last I look at it's 470,000 >> is sitting in the right special education and then and the circuit
breaker >> that's 600 in theory. That's what we're supposed to carry there. >> Well, that's No, that's the line. That's the line that >> the minimum >> that's the minimum line. But right now, the circuit breaker has >> I don't know what it has. >> Circuit breaker was funded. I I think well I think one 1.2 million 1 million.
>> No, no, we What do you mean funded? >> We don't fund it. The state, >> right? Right. >> I think that like the memo even says the goal when this was written was to have 1.2 2 million which was some average of what we used to carry in the circuit breaker between what we leave in circuit breaker the circuit breaker minimum of
600 right >> plus whatever is in special education which is 470 so it's about 1.1 million right right >> so >> the problem the problem is that for that extra money isn't available for the school to pay down the tuition I mean it's it the money that's in the reserve
doesn't work the same way as if all the money's in the circuit breaker I mean I mean at the end of the day we pay the bills, but but the circuit breaker money allows us certainty um without going to the town, but it also helps us prepay
tuition for for the next year, which is which is a huge savings or which is helps us I I don't I mean I feel like I keep saying this, but um >> So is will your Sorry, I'll just I'll
just add that 80 over 80% of the municipalities do it a different way than we do and I think it's I think it's higher than 80 and get you the detail but they must know something that we don't and again we used to do it the same way that everyone
else did it the same way that is allowed by and by Mass General law. It's not like we're trying to do something that's not allowed. We're the law is really clear. It's black and white. It's been the same for a long time. And what it's meant to
do is to prevent this is to prevent the transfer out where someone knows something about someone. So in a perfect world, we figure out a way when to fund circuit breaker that
the school department has the full circuit breaker to pay down whatever we need to pay down. It saves everybody money. it saves everyone this and they must that's just how it is and if we choose not to do that that's a you
know that's a decision that the town is going to make but for right now today this discussion we need to change the transfer out rule and the lang I mean >> I'm going to disagree with you and then I'm going to agree with you um
>> you wouldn't be the first >> I really think the example, you know, if the names are blacked out when there someone's paying the bill and there's one person paying the bill. I I really don't kind of get the the the the major concern about that, but it's not going to matter based on the second thing I'm
going to say. This feels like theou with utilities. Like I don't understand why we're over complicating this. Um that's what it feels like we've done. And there maybe there was a good history and we were at loggerheads and this was the only way they could get people around the table to come to a solution back in
2024, but we're here in 2026. One way or another, we're going to put the money in, right? Unless I'm missing something. It's the same amount of money. >> Not really. I mean, if we if we undid this this year, we'd have a $600,000 need in our operating budget to fund
this. But we're if we allowed the school to not not spend down to one point down to 600 and keep 1.2 million, I think that means that their budget's going to go up because I don't know what. >> So, is it a one-year time lag issue? >> No. Isn't it
>> because the four the 450 that we put in is going to get drawn down too. So, >> well, nothing's been drawn down yet for us. So, I don't I don't think there's been any spending out of this account since we put it in place. That was part of the logic too was that >> okay then take the 450 and use that to bring the circuit. >> I don't know. You have to ask Nick if we
can just morph it over there. I don't know. But uh >> one way or another it's going to drop the free somewhere it's gonna it's 450 right? >> If we're not spending sorry to we're not spending the 450 then is it the balance like is the balance wrong? Like are we car is >> no remember this is a reserve. So we're not it wasn't to be spent immediately
was when these guys have challenges that were unexpected the 450 is there. It wasn't like it shouldn't be there. So, right. But I mean, I guess the way I understand circuit breaker is you want to prepay tuitions because there's a benefit and you're able to do that from circuit breaker, but you're not able to do that from the reserve.
>> And so, that gives you more flexibility. If all of this if this 450 went into circuit breaker, >> I'm not sure why they couldn't prepay tuition with this reserve. It just says you got to we can't take we can we can't put we can't put money we can't take that 400 and put it in circuit breaker.
It's not allowed. But couldn't you take a tuition bill and send that over to the AP warrant and have have them pay the tuition bill? >> They pay. >> So can I think let me just let's get let's just like get right to the heart of it. Why >> can I why are we complicated? So I think just to level set there's a moral and
legal obligation that we all agree to fund the special ed period. >> Yes. >> Right. >> So when we talk about reserve funds the communities that do it are generally trying to reward not spending all of the appropriated money in by the school committee and by the school department. That money that is in the reserve fund
is money that would have been turned back to to uh free cash, right? And so by not just doing prepay on any number of things and demonstrating that the appropriated number while close was you know a little bit more than was needed that free cash what would have closed
out to free cash is going into the special ed reserve fund. So it's not just we're going to spend every dollar to spend every dollar. That's the motivation between me behind many communities doing reserve funds like this. >> Can you just just so slow that down and let's be very clear about that. You're thinking that the schools would return
400,000 into >> over time. Over time. So we did the transfer in when was that? November. December. >> No, the the the town. >> Yeah, but we we initially funded it with like 400,000 two years ago. And then we were going to fund it again this May
with another 400,000. I think >> they said they needed the money but >> but then they didn't. >> They didn't. But then it seems like now like what you need is you need to get your circuit breaker funding up to where
it was. And the way to do that seems to be that you know we funded this with you know leaving aside the extra money that came out at the end of the year and leaving aside the Medicare reimbursement but there was an additional transfer of initial transfer of 400 something
thousand dollars in free cash into this reserve fund two two and a half years ago. if you could use that money to pay um circuit breaker eligible costs in this current year or next year depending
on how we work out this agreement. Then that would allow you to not spend down the circuit breaker to 600, right? And then for the following year then you would be able to carry a higher balance in your circuit breaker fund and but you would still keep this reserve fund to
catch any Medicare reimbursements or in the event that school department comes in under budget again you could then you know you could use that for any extraordinary expenses that otherwise come in right is is that what you're asking for? I I think you make sense, but I but I think like Miss Stella needs
to I had this conversation before with her and there's a lot of rules about what you can't how what what money can go in the circuit breaker and I sort of get what you're saying like pay it pay a bill out of an appropriation or something and but I don't I don't have I honestly have no idea what that means.
So, I mean, what it means um legally or or fiscally or anything. And I just think this I think it's I think I think we're thinking the same thing, >> but I think that Stella needs to just sort of have this >> discussion with how how it could work.
>> So, we're not going to be able to solve this problem today. >> No, but but you know what's really it's really interesting? I think like the problem I think the problem of thisou is not solvable today but I think it's solvable with with the discussion right
about how how how how this can happen >> right >> and but I think today the the biggest issue with thisou is just how the school committee gets the money and I think that might be solvable like to make it I don't I don't even know what the answer
is because >> I think that this is very um telling what we're going through right now. All of the people sitting in this room cannot really understand or figure out the correct legal way to go about
this. And it it is lost on me as to why we don't have more faith in Cheryl Stella to do that because she is the one that definitively knows that, right? So at the very least we could have a recommendation from her as to how to proceed because she has done it for many
towns in school districts and she's doing it for ours right for all of us to be secondguessing that because we're trying to find a solution. She's really the key missing piece here, right? And I trust her emphatically >> 100% Daniel. >> I would just respectfully get ask for a
recommendation from her as to how she'd like to see this, right? Because she is the one dealing with it on the day-to-day level and has more coupled with Martha Raymond who also has expertise in this area that quite frankly none of us do. Right? I mean I
I've been the HR administrator in Lynfield, right? So I've seen circuit breaker. I've submitted the reports and I have got reimbured for her and I can't tell you half of the answers that we have here tonight. Right. Seriously. Right. So for all of us, we have good intent, but she is the main person that
I personally trust and would go by. Right? So I don't know why we're not asking her for a recommendation. Maybe coupled with Patrick, right? Because you guys live this stuff. This is what you see day in and day out. >> Where's Cheryl? >> Right? So, I mean, I think that that's
kind of, you know, the missing piece here, right? Or Evan, I mean, Liz's husband, right? He has been through this also. He's a school business administrator. Like, these are people that have expertise in this stuff, right? And we're we're trying to recreate the wheel, but I mean, I I I
have to say I have faith in what she's saying or what she'd recommend, right? I I just hate to see us get so adversarial and gotcha and trying to get, you know, one side on the other, you know, being so mistrustful. And I know that history says that that's how we've been, but at
some point we've got to drop down the swords and trust the people that are the experts. It's the only way. >> Yeah, I agree with you, Danielle. I'm not really sure why Cheryl's not here today when we have a financial summit about school. We're not going to discuss
that in this forum. All right. Um, so I agree that's would be great to get there, but what I'm what I don't quite understand the mechanics of and it you know, Eric put me on the spot a little
bit because you you when I suggested, okay, we've got 450,000, we can move it. Maybe it's not that simple. Maybe it's all not one year. Eric, I think had a more kind of complicated but maybe more practical way of getting there. Um,
is the town some someone said, "Is the town worried that the schools are going to it's not like that money can be used for some other purpose, right? Or can it? Money's in this the special ed circuit breaker. It can't be used for
any other purpose." No. Right. >> Yeah. It is incredibly legally clear, >> right? Okay. >> What we can do. So the I think the only difference is that in the reserve there's a difference between prepaid and not prepaid. >> So whether it sits sort of waiting for the balloon to pop right one year
>> and then the money gets drawn on or it's used to constantly prepay future year's tuition and whether it matters is up for conversation. I guess I'm not sure it matters >> right >> but that it matters to the school committee. seemed like you were clear
and I I don't you know I I would I will rely on Cheryl and Nick and others to who know this better than I do but I back when getting back to what Marilyn was saying earlier I think was on this topic that we were stuck and we had we didn't have enough money to move forward with the budget >> right we >> and we had that so to me if we say to
the school we need you to to consider spending down your circuit breaker from 1.2 2 to 600,000. That was to save us money over in their overall budget, >> right? Like a one time hit. >> Okay. But we took it and we did that. >> It was to use the cash. >> You right. But now and if if want to now
put that back to 600,000, >> then to me that goes the other way and you have excess cost in your budget. Maybe you can start with the 450 and you only have to deal with the difference that that if that can be, you know, moved over there, shuffled over, whatever the term is, then that could work. But that's that's my con my
concern is that we we we created this reserve fund and for years as you were saying if we look at a history of the circuit breaker what we carried in there it has gone like this >> because every year we administrator say we need to go down a little bit more you know and that was because we didn't have enough money. So to my mind if we're
going to go the other direction it's going to cost us more money in the current year to build it back up. >> Yes. That that's all that's all I'm saying. And it's going to be a tight budget as we know. So that's why it's not as easy to say okay let's just go back to the 1.2. There will be implications to that decision. Right. I mean, I Eric, I I agree and you know, it
it won't be solved in one-year budget, right? I think we all agree with that. Um I I will say even if we wanted, we're talking about, you know, moving X dollars from A from A to B. I think we
should before we would even consider doing that, we would from a again from when we were meeting, right, it's one bucket of money. We'd want to talk to Cheryl and Martha to gain an understanding. Is it the right thing to do? And if it's the right thing to do,
what are the ramifications of doing that? And to your point, what bills can and cannot be paid? And you know, Martha and Martha and Charlotte, especially Martha, you know, she knows the legality of, well, this looks like it can be paid, but it can't. Well, this looks 99%
the same, but there's little one thing that allows it to be paid. So, you know, maybe a couple weeks from now we have, you know, either at a finance committee meeting, at a school committee meeting and they call in and we talk about this >> because, you know, again, as we talked
about, there's one bucket of money and let's treat it as one bucket of money and let's get answers to questions that, as you know, as you said, Danielle, we just I don't have that expertise, but we we're knock on wood, we're lucky that we do.
So Glenn, I think that that's a good idea on the go forward. I think the request originally was you were uncomfortable with thisou, but we want to meet you where you're at and we just need a little bit more data to understand that and you're committed to getting us that. So we'll go from there
and then we'll be able to make a better decision about what this looks like for fiscal year 27. >> Correct. and potentially future years if something is developed to right >> re-energize circuit breaker and sort of wind down special education reserve.
>> I think that's again it's all an open discussion >> and we all land on something that everyone's comfortable with especially guys however we can't improve it and make sure it's done the right way >> and talk to the people who can help you guide you guys to make that decision but
I can commit that we can have you know, Cheryl and Martha join a meeting to >> again educate a little bit more. >> Great. Does that work for all parts? >> I I would say frankly I don't even know I asked a question where she was but um
more importantly I I think it would be great if they could outline literally the cash flow >> implications of getting to where you want to get to >> because right now I think we're all kind of grasping. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think that's need a spreadsheet basically what
we need. I don't I don't think we need a whole another meeting for that. Like they can think it through and give us the recommendations so that we can understand it. Yeah. Amongst ourselves and then >> that's perfect. >> Back. >> Exactly. >> That works. >> I think it'll help us too, right? To actually see
>> what it looks like. >> Okay. >> Right. Okay. >> Can I ask we add one thing to that? Is if you are prepaying for something, how does that impact >> the following year's budget? >> That's a great question. >> So that you're not paying it and then carrying it to spend. >> Okay. So I wrote that down too, right? I mean fair is fair right if we're
prepaying something >> right >> then >> budget goes down >> what how does that affect the following years >> it's a different budget >> right >> right I completely agree 100% >> okay anything else we are moving on then okay memo of understanding between Swam
public schools and the police department and this uh mostly governs the SRO um the sorry the school resource officer. Um, >> it's pretty lengthy. >> It's pretty lengthy >> because
it's complicated. >> The only piece that Jason and I need to touch base on with the chief is the um the the expense is only FY25 in there. It's FY24 and 25. So, just to make sure, however, we did it this year, but certainly looking forward that we all
agree on what the appropriate number is. And this this could be another one of the things that we make sure we're looking at annually update with either a consistent start and end date or whatever, but it's FY25 only in there. So, we'll make sure we'll look at what we did this year and make sure 27 is appropriate.
>> Yeah. Okay. >> Well, I mean it makes sense too to review it annually just because it is >> kind of performance based, right? And it's, you know, an individual almost an individual contract. >> Okay. Um, >> can I just can I just say one thing? I I
just heard through um some MASC policy stuff that um some people are including in theirou um statement about um the SRO or the police cooperation or support when
there's um ICE agents or some sort of immigration thing that could happen. And I know it's been in the news a lot with the governor sort of preparing um the the government. So I just I don't know if Mr. Kalishman
and and Ruben have some sort of meeting or talk about that. We don't have a policy per se as a school committee yet or maybe ever because I I don't know. But but I just think I think I think it just should be on the radar for for maybe including I mean there's a
statement in there about about um you know equality and non-discrimination based on immigration status and stuff but there's nothing there's nothing about um the police duties in the event that anything like that happens. So I just I don't know. I'm just putting it out there.
>> Yeah, there are certain cities and towns that have very specific um rules. Yeah, I haven't seen anou yet, but not seen >> some other stuff, but >> just it's just >> it's pretty timely >> and and from a select board perspective,
we've had feedback from residents that are concerned. >> Um so it it very much is something that has to be addressed publicly. >> We know we have kids that aren't coming to school. >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, no, I agree completely. >> All right,
that exhausts our list of Jason, do we is there anything else that you have seen in your short tenure? Anyus that aren't included here? >> I think we got them all. >> This is all we could find. >> I'm more interested in Eric and Mary
Ellen since y'all have been a part of many of these and I think if you guys haven't presented it because >> been on these. >> Not that I can think of. >> Okay. So, All right. So, I hope folks thought that
was helpful. I I very much think it was and I think it will continue to be as we talk about how you know how some of these get reimagined or um uh not uh and it evolves over time. And then
hopefully this can help us my light is blinking. I don't know if that mean Oh, there I am. Um hopefully this can help us sort of stop some of the distractions that occur during budgetary season and we can have a clearer understanding when we start budgetary season what the baseline is like we said going forward
and stick to um stick to the budget at hand. So moving on to the next topic unless anybody has anything else looks like no to the general discussion of the revolving fund. We just back back on the um the
200,000 memo of understanding and you guys are going to do some research like is there >> special education? >> I'm not asking for a date but like some we get in the next like few weeks or month or something like that just so we're not suddenly it's miday or early May. >> No no no no. >> Okay. >> Sorry.
>> Um as soon as I get the email from from these guys I'm going to immediately send it to Max and Charl and give them >> 10 days to get back to us. Because we we all need we all need to call certainty, right? You guys need the cost certainty and you know the the more
quicker we can get you the information the better. >> Great. >> Excellent. >> Okay, moving on to Nant revolving fund. >> Glenn, you know, as we have said earlier, we are we will start negotiations. I
believe it's February 11th. Um, there are certain things that we as a district would like to be included in the new agreement. I I can imagine there are certain things not would want in the new agreement. Um,
I have committed to send Eric and to yourself um all the old contracts that we can find and that would include the um updated contract where we had folk had students come over for one year. Um, again to keep everybody in the loop so
you guys can see how this started and where we are currently. Um, I also was clear with um, Eric and yourself that uh, although you're not involved in the negotiations, we will be as transparent as we possibly can, at least to you guys
probably not to share with your boards until it's done. Um, we'll be looking for your expertise if there's if we have questions. Um the negotiating team will be uh Jason, Cheryl, and myself. And from Nant, it's their superintendent and
the chair of their school committee. That's how it's historically been done. But you know, we'll uh I will personally make sure that you guys are in the loop throughout. Um Eric and I spoke often as we went through the teacher contracts and the uh the other two contracts to
wanted to make sure that Eric knew what we were doing. Um again, even though Eric didn't have a vote, we just wanted I wanted to make sure that what we were doing and talking financially was in the ballpark of what everyone had thought. So we'll continue to do that to do that
with Nah. And I think too something we talked about in tri chair was that we we as a select board have talked about regionalization when possible and we have come into some agreements on um in the past and we hope in the future that
continues where there's an economically advantageous relationship between both parties to you know meet in the middle and share costs then it makes sense to do so. So, if you know any I'm sure uh Nick can fill Jason in on some of those
relationships to help leverage or give context to those negotiations, too, so you can understand what else we share and how what it looks like. >> Yeah, completely completely agree. Any place that we can have efficiency is
well worth the opportunity to look into. So, I hate to be the skunk at this party once again, but I have a question on the revolving account. On the NAT revolving account, when we set this up, we set it up for the specific purpose of being
able to move the NAT money into a revolving account so that the schools could have access to the revolving account right away. In September of this year at the school committee meeting, it was um the
information was released that there was $574,000 in this revolving account. It was also described that this revolving account was like a revolving account, like a reserve, similar to the recreation
revolving account and similar to the finance committee reserve. Those were words at the school committee. Those are not my words. When the school committee presented their their budget for 2025 on page 27, they were very clear. They
were using $1,748,90 out of the revolving account to fund middle school and high school teachers, middle school and high school paraprofessionals, middle school and high school guidance, middle school and high school psychologists. I I'm at a loss as to understanding why
there is $574,000 sitting in an account. Um, and I really believe that when the school committee came to town meeting for the 25 budget, four out of five members of the school
committee said that the budget that was being presented was not enough money and they needed another 4 to450,000. that was turned down after a couple days and then at the end of the year there is a surplus of almost actually more than half a
million dollars and that money is now sitting in the NAN revolving account. I I need to have an explanation of what is going on here with this revolving account because when I voted for this revolving account, it wasn't to have a
fund, a reserve fund sitting on the side. And it's my belief that taxpayers overpaid 500 close to $600,000 in taxes. When the select board sat here and went through the budget line by line, literally cutting money out of the
library, couple thousand dollars a library, $1,000 here, just beating up the budget. And then to see this surplus, I need to have a real clear understanding, especially when I'm being presented a budget. And actually, that's on line item page number 27 of your
budget from 25. I think taxpayers deserve an answer to what's going on here. What happened here? >> Just for clarification, you've been referring to for FY25, >> correct? >> 25. >> So on F at the end of FY25, which was
say July 1. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> The report the school comes back and reports their budget, you know, what the savings are and how their budget turned out and this is a report from their budget, >> right? And and the real particular issue
at the end is that for FY26 budget, we were scrutinizing cutting flu shots and this and the other thing and we're and understood that the school budget was very very very very tight. >> Very tight. No money >> and then we found out later that there was this amount of money left in the
revolving. >> Correct. to that. I would say that the budget fluctuates a tremendous amount in that period of time. You could look at our unemployment. You could look at a variety of different reasons, but the
bottom line is we were within 1.3% of our budget. And I know I'm new to this, but I feel like headline news, the school came in under budget. Like that should be a great thing. >> It is a great thing. >> Good. So, yes, we're in agreement there.
So, I understand that it looks like a I mean, I don't think anybody expected it to go to 517. I think it's already down to 410 or so. Um, but we came in under budget by a very small percentage and I think that should
be applauded >> quite frankly. >> No doubt you should be applauded. But the second part of that should be why wasn't that money returned to the taxpayers? Why wasn't that money returned to free cash? Instead, it was moved over into the NATO revolving
account. When at the presentation of that budget, you were very clear on how you were using not you, but how the school was using the NATO revolving account. You made it very clear you're going to use 17 almost 50 >> on out of the out of the revolving account.
>> Excuse me, out of the nant, >> right, >> tuition. >> So, what I would suggest is put your questions in writing and we will get you an answer. >> You know what? I I will not be putting my questions in writing. I'm here at the meeting. I'm asking you. I'm letting people know that there's a serious issue here. I would like an answer.
>> Well, there is no answer tonight. And if you'd like to sit here all night, you can. If you'd like to send me an email, I'm happy to get you that answer. All of us that answer. >> But has the answer clear? >> I mean, this question has been asked,
right? This isn't the first time we're hearing about it. >> Um, it was asked a couple of times already, right? And so I think at this point we we knew this question was going to be asked tonight, right, Glenn? So, and I understand you
might not have an answer and we we have to accept that, but I mean we to Marielle Allen's point, we do need some sort of answer to taxpayers to understand. So, I mean, if it's okay, I would just say the same thing that Cheryl said when we met a few months ago that there were
three options. We could pe prep preaid tuition. >> We could have spent the budget entirely and did not. We could leave leave some unspent and then it would go to the special ed reserve fund or some combo of you some combo of those two. Um,
>> we know that there's going to be tough financial decisions. So, I think with more money in the fund now, we it enables us to tomorrow night, you'll see what we're asking for compared to other towns. Um, and I think it we look it's pretty favorable.
So, >> Tara, did you have a question? >> I mean, I just want to say I just kind of want to reiterate Katie's point. This this question has been raised numerous times. It's on the agenda tonight that nobody's surprised by the questions we're asking. We were actively restricted from speaking to school staff
tonight. Um, we were informed in advance that they would not be answering our questions. So, you had ample time to prepare in in fairness. I mean, I'm not attacking anyone. I'm just saying this is the right it was there's no surprise here. This is not a we're not asking you
something that you didn't expect to hear. So, asking us to send an email with questions is just it's frankly disrespectful. Thank you, >> Glenn. Can I say something? >> Absolutely. >> Um, so if we go back to the report that we had at the beginning of this meeting,
that money goes into, correct me if I'm wrong, it goes into the revolving fund and then it's spent out of the revolving fund. So it would never go back to the general fund. It would stay in the revolving fund as it says right here. It carries forward to the next fiscal year. I think
maybe going out on a limb here. I think it's it was a good business practice to to to just spend the money that you you had to spend and to reserve the money that you could reserve for costs that might come up over the next year that you might need to close your budget the
next year that you might need to if it's possible prepay some costs. So to me it it makes good business and financial sense to do it this way. Liz, I >> I don't disagree that it maybe was a good business decision for the school. I
just don't know if it was a good business decision for if you look at the collective of the town and the taxpayer. So, I think that is the question that I'm trying to wrap my head around. I see why they did it. I think I I see the logic to it. I see your point. Uh it just then becomes our responsibility as
elected officials to understand to the to explain to the taxpayer why they were taxed on something that didn't get spent. And then ne like if we go forth with a budget for the schools for the next fiscal year whether or not they're going to get taxed on additional funds
are they double tax now. So I I agree with what you're saying but like we have to wear all the hats. So >> sure, but so but if we're going to have an open discussion, right? What happens if what happens if they overspend and they don't have the money? Then they have to come back to town meeting. Are
you going to get the money, right? >> Like what happens then? I think it's a policy discussion that we need to have. >> And I think we all have to be cognizant of the timing of how this all works, right? So at the time you're voting a budget. >> I mean, you don't necessarily know what you're going to end with, right? In terms of what you're going to spend. And
I have asked this question of Cheryl Stella and I have she has given me that similar explanation that they had three options none of which um you know where they could have spent it all down to zero right which then we'd all say Jesus
you spent it you spent everything you you came in over budget you didn't do the right thing right or you could have prepaid right they could have prepaid would we have been in favor of that who knows we're not in favor of much any anyway um and then the third opt ion right was to I'm sorry I can't remember
what it was >> thank you a combination of the two like at some point we have to let the experts do what they do and we you know to the extent that I am of the belief that not
everybody in the school department is trying to screw this town >> to put it quite frankly I really don't feel that way considering the superintendent lives here I have faith and trust in in the policies in the way that um they're going about that. I'm
not always looking for the gutcha moment where they screwed up or someone screwed up and I'm going to call them on. That's not what I'm interested in, right? Like how I mean, are we going to micromanage every single move? Is it our purview to do that? I don't think it is. I think it's our purview to approve that one
line item final budget and then it's these elected officials to oversee this gentleman in his school department. Right. And I'm comfortable with the way that Cheryl has done that. >> I I think um to Liz's point though, like you know, we can we can have a policy
like and and I think that part of the discussion on long-term budgeting with the town and everything is sort of understanding how how the school appropriation gets picked and and you know, is two and a half% >> you know, should it be 4% just whatever. We need that. But but we can also have
the discussion about what what's the percentage that's that's okay to leave in a revolving account. Does it should it should should every revolving account go to zero? Should some say you know keep 10% in would be like you know above 10% you give it back to free cash or do what you're allowed to do with it. I
mean we can certainly I mean those that's what that's what our financial team should be discussing. They should be discussing things like that so that so that it's understandable that when something comes back and and you know >> and absolutely and for going forward
that's exactly what we should do but to sit here and penalize professionals that made these decisions a year ago right and not in in basically accusing them of not exercising professional judgment and guidance as fiduciaries like doesn't seem
appropriate. I think it's true when you make a budget. >> I don't think anyone's making accusations about >> Yeah. I think the question is, you know, we were presented with a budget and today, you know, we got further information from the MSA, >> MASC
>> on, you know, for revolving funds, they're earmarked for a specific purpose. And in the budget, the NATO revolving funds are earmarked for paying teachers at the middle and high school, which is where the NAT students go >> and the middle school. >> And the and the middle school. Yeah. And
so, >> um, those monies staying in the revolving fund either means that, you know, that means that those teachers either weren't, I mean, they were paid, but they were paid from other sources. Mhm. >> And then
you know it's but then if they were paid from other sources that then means that other funds were available to pay those expenses >> and then it's sort of like a trickle down effect and it just >> you know it's not questioning what decisions were made. It's just
understanding it seems like we don't understand the budget because we don't understand you know what what the expenses are. No, like the budget we're told varies every day. It can go up 2% or not, you know,
and everything's nothing's predictable, but you still like every budget is a balance of assumptions uh about about the unknowns and an allocation of risk. And you know, in this town, we have school budget and we have a town budget. >> And there's some budget
>> there's some expenses that are shared. some expenses that you know the school generates that totally fall on the town like health care and you know some of the um retirement funds. So there's there's an allocation of risk of who
bears what expense if it's out of whack. >> Um you know special education is 100% on the schools right if that goes up I mean it's on the town as a total but right >> right now it's on your budget. Um, so it we're not saying anyone did anything
wrong. We're just >> see that's what I that's why I differ with you there because I feel like my colleague to my right is saying that and I'm not comfortable saying that. So that's my point. >> I I just want I I just want a very accusatory tool here. I just want an answer.
>> I get it, Mary Ellen. Why? Why there is additional monies and the monies were not returned back to the taxpayer? I'm I'm sorry that I have a fiduciary responsibility. I'm sorry. I do. We all do. You're not the only one questions, but you're not the only to try to vilify
me for questions. I'm notifying you, but I think that your tone and your approach is what has got us to this point of mistrust. And I think that that is what we need to scale back if we're going to get anywhere in the future. Right. That is my point. I think it's been
historical and I think we need to cut it out and try to be a little bit more collaborative and try to solve this problem instead of pointing fingers and waiting for gutcha moments. >> Just answer the questions. That's all it is. >> But you've asked and you've had this question answered because you've asked I don't have the question answer.
>> Cheryl Stella sat here and told us that there was unemployment savings that they had. No, but there were hundreds of line items where where things ended up better than we expected by 1.3% of the budget. I just have to say that again like when you look around the area and
look at what other districts are going to looking for overrides coming to the town for their towns for this excessive amounts of money. We are not doing that. I understand I really do understand what you're saying. I would say that you know we don't have to look far. Marblehead has um revolving accounts. They have like four different revolving accounts
with, you know, $2 million in it that that they can. It's this is not uncommon. No. And it's not I understand this a lot. I'm not saying $500,000 isn't a lot, but percentage- wise a year ago we came if I told you we came within 1.3% of our budget and we were under I think you'd be happy. Like I you know,
from my perspective, I would think this is a good thing. I I do understand what you're saying, but generally speaking, we came in under budget. I'm not coming to you asking for another $500,000 right now. >> I agree. I agree. So can I make >> and we can ask for a we can ask for a detail for exactly and we have asked for
detail as to where this money came from and we have been provided with that right we just don't seem to want to accept it >> also >> one part of the question you're asking Mariel that I think I think is you've been saying why hasn't it been returned to the taxpayers >> that was answered tonight
>> the the revolving fund that's not the way it works right >> no no no no hold on hold on hold on okay >> hold on Because had the money from NAND been spent the way it was budgeted 1.748090
would have been paid out of that revolving account which would have been zero >> would have left zero >> would have left almost zero except for maybe $134,000 >> which means >> the other monies that were coming out of the general fund have to be returned
to out of the school general fund. on have to be returned back to the town. >> That's what it was. So just let's play it back to you. Make sure. Okay. So you're saying the plan that we understood the way FY25 was going to work was that amount of money 1.7
million was going to be spent out of the revolving fund, >> right? >> Less than that was used out of that fund. >> But all the bills got paid. But all the bills got paid which left and if they had spent it that way then there would
have been money left in the school committee budget which would have been returned to the >> I actually don't think that's true. I think it actually goes I think if it's not spent it goes back to the special aid reserve if I'm >> we could look into that but the cap of that >> it does but >> we were at the cap >> we're at the cap of the special ed
reserve so it could not be returned to special you guys >> I don't think anyone knew that at the time >> no you're correct that we were at the cap >> right because in December we got back 9600 and then we gave you back what we said we were going to give you and we did
that because you were close to the ceiling >> correct special but >> by leaving it in the revoling account then you can't touch it. >> Got it. Got it. That's the that's the concern. Got it. Okay. Sorry. Maybe
everyone else got that all along but >> so I just think so there I think there's two questions. one we can put it in writing because that's what the school committee's asked exactly the detailed line items for which we acrewed this 50
574,000K over a 100 different line items where it came from >> if that's the answer we want then that's what we want but I think what is more important is just a a common best practice going forward for the revolving account so we don't get ourselves into
this situation again it is not a critic criticism of any buddies >> how they utilized that account >> without a best practice because they had the ability to and you made a decision >> and you did it but now we are saying like well >> maybe that wouldn't be the decision that
we made and so can we come to an understanding on what is better going forward >> yeah I guess I keep on thinking that it's just interesting what we gave money back >> came within 1.3% of the budget came in under budget and somehow I feel like we're I I know you're not saying that
Navy is pointing fingers, but I do feel like we're the bad guy here >> when >> again it doesn't take a whole lot of research to dig around and see what other towns are facing. So, >> yeah, >> I I keep getting stuck on that, >> right? Because here the the
>> I get that you can see it that way and I understand that. That's all true, too. And it does feel there's a possibility that there was a little gamesmanship that happened to keep the money in the school till Right.
Right. I'm not saying that that's how I feel, but I'm just saying that that is a >> So is that how you feel? >> No, it isn't how I feel. >> So So hold on. So what? >> No, I'm talking right now. Glenn, you've had a plenty of time. I >> I need to stop you, however, because you're talking about a town employee.
>> I just I need to let him talk. And you can Glenn, you can go right after. It's not about a town employee. Go ahead. >> Yeah. I'm just saying if we really hear each other, I'm not I don't think we even have to take a side because I think Suzanne where she went is where we need to go. And Katie reiterated it. We need
to have a policy. But >> I think it's good to get these things out. Yeah. >> So we're not just kind of like >> dodging and weaving and kind of making innuendo like this is this is this is the perceptions that we have. Right. I hear I hear that Mary Allen's asking for
the one the the 1.3% that were under budget. We could have been under budget by more, >> you know, like if if we use if we use that 500. >> No, but isn't that >> it would have it would have dropped to free cash, >> right? Like Right. We would have
>> Yeah. >> given Matt more money >> like a lot of other things. It comes down to a little bit of control. That's what we're talking about. >> Right. That's what that's what I'm saying. >> On the margin, who controls these dollars? That's what we're kind of quibbling over in a lot of these things, right? So, I think the policy about it
will really help us. >> I I agree with I totally agree with the policy council. This is something I think that kind of blindsided people because this isn't this this account as it's existed for a while. >> Like at the end of last year, it had $150,000 in there. That wasn't enough to get our eye up. Right. But now when it's
575, especially after last year, well, no, it was would have been reported in Cheryl's year-end report, but at 150, we wouldn't have been banging our hands on the table about that. Exactly right. >> We're kind of shocked by the magnitude. We don't have a policy and the other thing I don't think we understand is >> you know the what what things can and
cannot be charged against this account because when I think of we're charging NAT tuition. >> We're taking an average for the number of students or you know we're taking the sorry we're taking the revenues that come in that are kind of predetermined but it's not like we have all these invoices that are specifically for NATO. So we're making choices in what's going
against that million7 >> and I don't fully understand this part of the polic formula is >> at least an explanation what what can we charge there? What can we can we charge anything we want there? >> No, >> that's what I don't fully get. >> Yeah, I >> I just go ahead. >> I just want to say this. It's like a a
convol um >> no it's a pylon of events that occurred that brought us to this juncture. Right. So when I first heard about it, it was like, okay, well that doesn't feel great since I went before the select board and
took, you know, line items out of this the town budget, right? Town budget. It's all one budget, but and we went through this very public display and then it turned out there was a surplus. So Jason, that's on us, right? Because we felt away based on our I felt away. I'll speak for myself. I felt away based
on the actions that I took that didn't feel great because I didn't have a full understanding. So then I tried to get a better understanding. I've since gotten a little less heated about that initial feeling. I have a more clarity about the feeling. I am not saying that any that
it's not great that you have a surplus and I'm not saying it's any one employee or particular person's issue that this is all I'm saying is if we can avoid that feeling happening in the future, let's do it right. And the way we do
that is through understanding and policy. >> Agreed. I I agreed. I would just say that wouldn't it feel worse if we were coming to you for more money which could have just as easily happened. It just happened to break in our way this time. Eric just said there was this been in
that account for years. It finally broke in our favor. >> Right. >> Yeah. It would feel worse but doesn't necessarily feel great. >> So what's what's the line? So I think you have to we have to decide what's the line. Do you want all I can say is if 150 doesn't move the needle, right? >> Does 250 move the needle? I mean we're
already at 47 or whatever it is. and and let's let's understand the select board having that conversation about cutting a budget, >> a budget that we had never done that in years, right? So, I had no problem doing that. I wouldn't have a problem doing it again. Did I want to have to do it that
publicly line by line? No. >> It shouldn't have come to that. And had we had had had we done it differently as we as I requested we should have months before that point, we wouldn't have done that publicly. But did it need to be done? Yes. Do we ask the school
department to do it every single year? Yes. >> And we we we hone in on it with a microscope, but never had we done it on this town side. >> I disagree with that. That please I mean you have a finance committee sitting in front of you that spends weeks with the with town staff going through line by line budget review. So please don't say
we don't do that. >> I didn't say you didn't. I said we did it. This >> you don't need to do that in your role. Otherwise, you don't you don't need us. >> So >> So you you're saying we're not supposed to look at the budget? I'm saying you're not supposed to be going and cutting two $3,000 line items to solve the hundred. That's you know that that that I think
we all agree nobody wanted that to be happening. >> Well, do you know what happened before that? Do you understand what the backstory was of of asking us as a collective board to we had discussed it and wanted our chair to talk about it amongst ourselves? I don't know that. No, you don't. So that's my point. What I'm saying is we had we had gone through
the detailed budget review. Not to I'm going to stop soon because >> um and we had come up with we had done reviews and had you know that many versions on the town side, many versions on the school side and we got to this number that we kind of thought we were there and within a couple of weeks of coming to town meeting we had the $250,000
you know healthcare issue we had to then deal with. So that's how we got there ultimately. >> Right. I admit I don't know backstory of what was going on in discussions of school committee but I mean the select board but >> I just >> so my point is we we should have as a as a board been talking about areas of our budget considering we didn't even have a
permanent TA in place right there was um a bit of a lag there so we really needed to be a little bit more in tune and we should have we should have not had to do what we did right to your point but we it doesn't mean that we shouldn't have looked at it at all right >> so if if we're talking about a policy
going forward I the thing what I'm hearing anyway a goal for sort of percentage that we're carrying in any revolving account is useful. We have that type of you know policy guideline in other places in town already but also understanding the prioritization of spending of appropriation versus
revolving. I think that's a lot that's the distinction in the discussion right now. >> Yes. >> Is which dollars we were spending first. >> And so that can be something >> if everyone's comfortable with it that Jason, Cheryl, Patrick and myself can be coming back to both boards and you all
obviously with an idea of what could be next and you all can beat it up and give us better ideas and come up with something but those are the those are the big pieces that are missing like what is the goal what is comfortable what is right to have in there >> and then how do we prioritize spending broadly I don't think we should ever get into dollar for-doll
>> or them or the town operation or the school operation side but a broad policy statement that this is how we would like to be moving forward >> and then we can make the case to you all if we need to do something whether it's on the school operations side or the county operations side or in the shared service side.
>> Um I'm just trying to get to a point where we have some next steps because I >> Yeah, >> I think we could go on for a long time tonight. >> Yeah. >> Uh so I don't know if that works for folks or or not. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think that's a great idea. >> Y um that's fine. I I just want to just
a couple things. I think questions about whatever was left in the revolving fund I think are fair. Yeah, it's not. It's fair. It's kind of like we were talking about earlier with the $200,000. We'll get you an answer. Whatever that answer is, someone's wearing mud on their face. Someone's
wearing mud on their face. That's fine. I think part of the challenge that we're having is it just doesn't seem fair and equal. You know, it was reported in and Nick to your point, I don't I don't know what the revolving fund on the town side is,
but you know, it was reported by Patrick in October 22nd that FY25 closed on the wreck department revolving fund with $434,700
sorry 69. Are you guys looking at that revolving account asking the same questions you're asking us? Where'd that money go? Shouldn't that lower any Shouldn't that change the budget by
$434,000? >> Well, I'm asking. I'm not telling. >> But doesn't have a line item of millions of dollars to fund the rec department. Wreck has >> most of that money is from user fees. >> It's all all user fees. >> So, it's not going to come back to the town.
I I don't know the answer. >> All user fees. >> Yeah, all user fees. >> Which then can't we make the same point then for the NATO residents that are paying money into that account because they're the ones that are paying the money into the revolving account, not the taxpayer.
It's the same as the person >> partially funding the school that the taxpayers pay for. >> Yeah. But that's the part. >> Yeah. But that's what we're getting into is the part of well, you guys paid that much. It's the user fees. But then you're asking us, well then why didn't
you spend it all? Which then I feel like is an appropriate question to ask you guys on the rec side. Like you're you're pretty much kind of asking us like pay whatever you can through the NATO fund, which they told us tonight that we can
pay for educational expenses uh of non-residents. So it's only for up to a certain point for those students. But it kind of sounds like we are supposed to kind of throw other things in there like why don't we pay for utilities or something like that.
>> No no because what I want to make really clear because you guys are going to go into negotiations with NATO. All of the NAT paid tuition got spent on NAT students in the high school or the middle school. There was no savings. This dollar amount that's in the NATO revolving account is
not a savings of money that NATO should not have paid us. Correct. That's I want to make 100% clear >> what it was was that there were savings and other line items on the Swanscott side >> and so money did not get spent from the revolving account that could have but
rather it was spent out of the school budget. So there was there I because we're going into active negotiations with that. >> There is not a $500,000 savings that they should be seeing because that is not what happened here. So, and the the difference I find in the wreck account,
I agree, we should be discriminatory against the recctor. We should be asking all the same questions, but the budget for the recck department is not anywhere near the budget that the school department has and they selffund basically. >> So, they carry a much larger amount in
the revolving account because they don't have a backup budget. So if they need to pay bouncy houses for something on town hall, they don't have all the line items to be able to do that in the rec department budget from town side. They
pay it out of the revolving account. >> If you look at the historics of that account, at least my understanding of it is >> yes, it keeps a high balance, but it's almost a full cycle of what comes in and what goes out. In the summer, the revolving account is very high. We all can understand why because there's a
million activities happening in the recck department and so there's lots of funds coming in. By the end of September, it goes much lower because they have to pay out the lifeguards and everybody else who's been working all summer long. So it they're they're similar to I mean it's more similar to
special education reserve, but it is way more definitive than that. Yeah. >> So, I mean, I understand the ask, which is please have the same scrutiny that you're asking us >> with recre revolving, and I don't have a problem with that. That's fair. As Glenn's been saying, he's owning where
there's fair. That's fair. But also understand the differences between the budgetary constraints between wreck and the school department. >> Yep. Which totally totally get. Um, but the part that is kind of kind of circling through everybody is the line
item was this, but your overall budget was this, so why didn't it get spent? Which the same argument can be made about the wreck account or any of the other revolving accounts that you have where it's like, yes, that line item for that one revolving account is this much,
but your town side of your budget is this much. So, why is there a difference? Uh, and I know this was brought up before that there were savings. Like if we were paying a teacher $80,000, which crazy um for teaching one year,
but then the next year we're paying them 60, there's already a $20,000 difference there, which is a savings, which is an education expense for an AANT student, which is a savings, which could probably explain why we have a surplus. There were millions of little things that
added up to the surplus. And that's the part that I feel like everybody wants to get into, which is explain specifically where you spent the money and were they actual savings? Because if there were savings, then why
aren't you sending that back to the town? Even though chapter 71 section 71F tells you that it needs to carry forward because it's restricted to just the educational expenses.
>> Yeah, that I think that's the challenge. I mean, listen, this is we we may agree sometimes and disagree, but these are great conversations. They really are. All right, it's hard. All right, people get hut under the collar. That's okay. It's there just some things on the
school budget we just can't share. We we don't have to. That that's the thing. And we've talked a lot. We don't abide by that rule. I mean, there are t and there are towns that, you know, hold on. There are
towns that don't do it that way. We we're trying to be as transparent as possible. We'll get you as much answer as we possibly can >> and then you guys can make your own decisions. >> I got to tell you, Glenn, just from hearing that, that's just the wrong approach.
>> You can't share. Like I I agree with you 90% of what you said tonight, but that's why we're all here. Like that, you know, >> even me who really understands what we're talking about, like it's that sentiment that we really want to get away from, right? We're we're all here
to share, right? So we're not The spirit of what we're asking is just for clarity so people can understand and not be, you know, continuously like misled or feel like they're misled or have a bad feeling, right? So to to say
you can't share I I just think is maybe a bad choice of words, right? Because >> you know we want to be collaborative. That's what we're trying to accomplish. >> May I um >> if I can just >> This is all public. >> Yeah. I I'm I'm not sure if you left a
word out there or not, but uh you know I I thought you were trying to say, you know, we're trying to be as transparent as possible, which I know we are. Um I think you were trying to say there are other school districts that are not nearly as transparent as our school board is uh with with the rest of the
town with their budget. So I think that's what you were trying to say. I don't think you were trying to say we're not going to share. >> Right. If if I said if you're if you interpreted that I did, you know, I apologize. What I was trying to say is there are communities that don't do what we do. They don't
>> break down to the level that we do. >> I'm sure >> and it's hard but again as we talked in Tritra we're trying to do this as >> it's one number at the end of the day it's there's only so much money to go around. Right. The town has X dollars. >> Right.
>> Right. And that's and with the current constraints at a state level that's we have X dollars. X dollars goes to the town. X dollars goes to the school, X dollars goes elsewhere. And that's that's that's what I meant. Thank you, John. I do not mean that we won't. We have done it the last several years. We
continue to answer the questions, continue to share as much as humanly possible to make people as comfortable as we can. But I can tell you the folks we have employed on the school side, and I've said this before
publicly, they're damn good at what they do. And I'm sure the same thing could be said on the town side. And there are just sometimes that the language being used is just tough to hear. And it's not tough to hear for us because you know I the voters can vote me in, vote me out
and do what they want. But we have employees who really work hard and there's no slush funds. There's no, you know, I'm not calling Jason saying, "Hey, you want to go out for a steak
dinner? put it put it on the town. That doesn't happen. Every dollar is accounted for. Yes, there's, you know, there's a question about the NATO revolving fund. We'll catch you the answer. >> May I um interject?
>> We've been here for three hours and I think we've taken this meeting about as far as we're going to go. >> I want to make a motion to adjourn our finance committee. Can I >> before you do that, could I just put can
I um Doug rightsize this particular conversation to figure out what the takeaway is so that we can have some >> please let's have closure. >> Yeah. So I think we don't want to just stop the conversation because we have had some good discussion here but we do need to have a direction on where this discussion should be going and I think
the direction is that we would like to work out some parameters by which on a go forward basis these decisions are made >> um so that this is uh in the future less
shocking and has a d like >> has direction for us that we can understand and we've done that on the town side for our reserve funds. So maybe there is a conversation that could be had with Jason and Missella and Patrick about how we
handled it on our side, however we came to those percentages and then there can be some back and forth and then there could be a takeaway that would come back to all the boards. I don't know. I'm open to suggestions. And >> do we have another little summit like this scheduled?
>> Not scheduled. We do not have one scheduled. >> Is that something that we want to think about and specify what questions we want to address in the next? >> I think we were theorizing the next one might be more about like long-term >> Yeah. >> financial issues as we're heading into budget season. We don't want to we
wanted to be clear on you know as we present something to town meeting this year knowing it's going to be tight the question of okay what's going to look like next year and if we have no concept of what that is >> right >> we that that's not a good place to be. So I think that's what we're at least that's what we've been thinking. >> So that's the next topic.
>> Yeah, that's that's what the tri chair have been talking about. >> So maybe on this agenda. I mean I know some people might want to leave up to discussion of >> I don't think we've done the last two bullets. Right. >> Right. Right. >> Right. Right. >> I have to say I mean this has all been
educational but this whole conversation has been a little bit about moving the puck between you know three feet uh on either side of the red line right you know center ice. this none of this has been about how we actually save money or
generate money. Um this is all about like how much of the you know we've moved it around the field just a little bit. >> I don't think this was a meeting to talk about saving or money. I think it was to get us better prepped as we head into the budget season on a lot of kind of
things that come up every year and stall us and lead to difficult budget. >> And that's great. >> Yeah. And I think we accomplished a lot in that regard. >> That that's great. Um, but it none of this is really going to uh fundamentally
change the decisions that we're going to have to make because we haven't we haven't really explored any dramatic changes to the way that we run our business here. >> Well, >> and you know, for me, like that's what
those last two are potentially about. I don't know how we even get to those discussions if we can't all be in the same room and have civilized discussions about like the past. So that is why we started with some of these things. >> That's great. I'm not I'm not >> Please I'm not saying we shouldn't have done what we did,
>> but I just I feel like it would be derelic to not >> do the last two. >> We're not doing them tonight. And >> I think we have some takeaways, right, from >> we have quite a few takeaways >> from what we, you know, maybe we make a list of that that the school committee is going to get back to us all with um
and then quickly try to address these last two pieces or at least >> the school budget the school committee budget doesn't necessarily need to come up tonight. We have a budget meeting tomorrow night so people can turn tune into that and there's going to be a whole bunch more information because Sherelle's going to be presenting. I mean Okay.
>> I mean that's the place to discuss the budget. Well, what did this Katie, what did you mean by discussion of school committee budget? >> Matt, >> the item was on that agenda in case we veered too far off talk topic about theus and we didn't want to violate open meeting. >> Okay. So, we can skip that.
>> It was a reasonable expectation that it could happen. So, we wanted to make sure it was >> because we were talking about theus and if we veered too far us outside of theus into the budget itself, I was like, how do we make sure we can't say, "Well, we can't talk about that. We're all here." I wanted to make sure we covered ourselves for
>> if we can reasonably anticipate it or something. >> So we can skip that even and then what about discussion of long-term budgeting have that tonight? >> Well, I I'm just saying it's it's on here. I don't know what the was. >> Similarly, it was included in case
because again it could be reasonably anticipated that if we weren't an hour beginning the fourth hour and not had gotten there that it could have come up. We wanted to make sure that people were aware at a very high level with fin at the last meeting. I think we were talking very broadly about how we put
together something that is reflective of what's asked in the charter but also similar to like the capital plan where we can say >> here's a longer term budgeting so that you can understand where we may see deficits again or where we may see need for additional revenue. So that broad
discussion started briefly in the in the last spincom meeting um so that we can put together something that meets the charter really speaks to what you all are asking for as well >> for the prep for town meeting for >> in to be able to go to town meeting with something that says this is this is this year but also this is what you can
anticipate in the years ahead and this is what we see on the horizon whether it's a trash contract that's extended one year and we we know it'll be back up or you know we can start to identify things on the horizon that everyone needs to be thinking about and considering as we make decisions in this year's budget. >> But it sounds like that's the topic for
the next little mini summit maybe. Right. So >> I I never anticipated we were ready to talk about that tonight. Okay. And just for just for the future, it would be helpful for me. I don't I'm not speaking for anybody else, but you know, just really having a tighter timeline. So if we can just say, look, we're dedicating two hours, 6 to 8, we're going to talk
about this. Let's stay on task and let's make sure that we have all of the people who can answer all the questions just so we can be as productive as possible. uh in these meetings moving forward. So >> and information sent to us >> in advance. >> In advance
>> motion to adjourn. >> Yeah. >> Second. >> Wait a minute. >> Sorry. >> Do you want to close out? >> What are the action items? >> Yeah. Well, I mean I think there are quite a few takeaways >> for the school department. >> Has you been taking minutes yet? I'm not
sure if you have not. You haven't take Diane. She we we will we will compile them and we will be good. >> Great. >> We'll talk about it in tri chair and then we'll circ and when we get it we'll it won't be a long time. All right. That
it can't be because before we know it representing to you in March and we want we want clarity as best we can. Right. I I just want to say say one thing you know about last year um about you know we whatever whatever the dollar amount
we were apart you know and I said it then I'm going to say it now you guys didn't know about the 250 you know we were in complete agreement >> you had been here what >> so you know last year when we the school department went to in front of town meeting for the X dollar and it was 147
if memory strikes but you know I just wanted the public to know whoever's listening is that everyone agreed on a budget until the last minute of the health care. So, we had worked really hard to come to an agreement that everyone could live with and then
something happened and it was no one's fault and the town had to do what the town had to do. We had to do what we had to do but everyone was completely fine with it and it was a lastm minute thing. Hopefully that never happens again. But you know the problem was that there
was this data you guys didn't have and because of you guys you know the the state was late or whatever they were doing with healthcare. So there was never an issue with that. It it happened and it aggravated everybody. And you know the goal with the questions we have tonight want to get them way before we
meet in March and hopefully that doesn't happen again. And if there's adjustments that need to be made, we'll make the adjustments. And I appreciate the time and I definitely think we should, to Doug's point, um, you know, the long term, I think we definitely should have. It's a whole separate meeting. I think there
just interesting discussions that can be had of how can we, you know, is there revenue sources that, you know, we could do here on this on the school side. You know, what what do we think is going to happen five years from now? When what's going to happen with the contracts when they expire three years from now? And I
think it's great discussions, but I definitely think it's for a different environment. >> And I would just respectfully ask if we could get Diane if you could send us the takeaways and if we could get an answer maybe in a week turnaround. I mean, I don't really want it to be next month. I'd like to get them sooner rather than
later if possible. >> Okay. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Do you want do you want to close? >> Sorry. >> Does it matter? >> We already have there's one on the floor for us. Okay. All in favor say I. I >> make a motion to please. >> Second.
>> All in favor? >> I can't. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I thank you everyone for your time.