##VIDEO ID:482cIOx4WKM## e e e e e e e e e okay sorry about that we'll call a meeting to order at 2 o' we have a roll call please here bman here Vice shair Hall is absent uh miss haes here and Miss Howard here okay next on the agenda is new business you want to start run oh thought you had something else new or something well I thought i' put together for you is a financial update of fiscal year 2024 that just ends September 30th 2024 you'll see throughout it's un audited because we I wanted to give you some numbers most current but there's still could be some entries straggling in and stuff we always get invoices coming in late so these are unaudited you know preliminary numbers um one to you know general fund being the biggest fund I wanted to show you the revenues of the general funds uh comparing 2024 to 2023 we're at 34,600 about one 1 million over 3% over 2023 for Revenue VES budget wise we're about 2% over the budget with these revenues uh going to expenditures of the general fund were at 34,43 th000 about 1.2 million over 2023 uh this report doesn't include outstanding incumbrances expenditure wise comparing at the budget we're about like 98.5% of the budget as far as expenditures and the general fund uh just trying to detail the revenues by the different categories going by taxes and of course adium taxes that and highlighted in blue that was our biggest increase 1.4 million um other things um another larger increase was charges for services and light blue there 314,000 that's mostly due to um we had another unit with the EMS we went from two units to three units so the county is paying us about roughly $250,000 more fines and forfeitures that's always erratic that 999,000 increase you know some years it goes down some years up but we had a larger uh fine in 2024 interest earnings up 122,000 because the rate of returns we're doing better um the one decreases you'll hear me sort of say during the presentation is between sales tax we saw sales tax receipts going down I think there was there was less construction activity in the city which affected building permits fees are down and impact fees have been down impact fees are not in the general fund though but um like I said the revenues came in at 1, 164,000 more um the good thing is if you look on the far right column even some of a couple them are down if you see we're at 100% or more of budget so that's good where like's say we're coming in over budget on most of those items Revenue wise uh revenues by category taxes are the highest percentage at 54.7% uh I always like to show that the top 10 revenues which you know of course one is the property tax where the we had one highlighted in yellow 1.4 million increase over last year uh property taxes are 40% of the general fund budget um utility utility tax electric and franchise free electric went down a little bit because the rates went down but franchise fee electric went down a little bit more like about 100,000 what we found out and I started talking to some other cities was why is why is ours down theirs was down too but then I found out from dened that Duke Energy had to do a correction they paid us too much in the previous year so basically they cut they brought clawed back three 100,000 bucks from this year's budget from this year's uh receipts for franchise fees uh half since sales tax that's one of the sales taxes we saw that were going down to 54,000 Revenue sharing is also mostly sales taxes down 50,000 um and building permits fees down 46,000 from the previous year you see most of them in the far right column are 100 you know revenues above the 100% except for you know the half in sales tax the revenue sharing and the building per permit fees coming a little bit under budget there uh getting into expenditures by category for the general fund uh Personnel Services uh from 2023 to 24 an increase of 2.4 million operating service operating Services up down 675,000 and capital outlay down 303,000 but down below I mentioned the increase in um Personnel 10.88% is due to salary and benefit increases plus the six new positions operating a decrease of 7.1% it's due to the one time I might have mentioned to this previously we had to do a new accounting standard made made as uh take any subscriptions and capitalize them for like last year it was 1.2 million which inflated the expenses by one two 1.2 million for this expense so that's why you're seen a decrease in the operating Services of 675,000 if if I didn't have that accounting entry last year you would probably you'd be seeing a gain of 600,000 for the operating expenses um capital outlay larger last year we went down because of we had some few items last year between the cemetery mosum roof public safety building Sponge Docks spongebo repairs uh some other building Renovations and planning and the old PD department has some uh Capital Improvements um expenditures by type of service of course Personnel Services is the biggest category in the general fund at 71% now I get into the projecting I say it's all un audited the fund balances of the general fund and this year I don't know if you saw it by breaking it up by the different categor by nonspendable restricted committed assign nonspendable it's a accounting entry but we not required to spend those monies they're prepaid items or leases we can't spend that money restricted is there's basically explanation is we're we're bound to keep that use of sour and use of money restricted by external parties if it's state federal um committed category is based on the city had a commitment either a charter ordinance or resolution to set aside some money but the city can also claw back that money if they did another resolution ordinance to um resend that assigned is it's a assign category is Management's discretion to assign certain items within the fund balance um they say going down the list there you've got the the nonspendable restricted for donations the balances are on the farlight for our right projected as of today 355,000 then you got the committed the cement Cemetery Perpetual care 655,000 Tree Bank 41,000 RightWay 148,000 sidewalks 45,000 compensated absences under the assigned category of almost 1.3 million disaster Reserve 50,000 restricted Reserve used in budget that's 586 th000 that's money used in next year's budget we're required to restrict that aside in the in the previous year's U audit uh disaster Reserve 50,000 I'm sorry I didn't already that we have an insurance reserve of 202,000 the Perpetual exclusive easement 720,000 that's the money from the sale of the cell tower at fire station 70 um maintenance Reserve 67,000 Public Safety reserve 290,000 and then we're required to reserve off the incumbrances at September 30th 2024 in the amount of 262,000 and then down below lastly is the unassigned fund balance last year was 8.6 million I'm so far I'm projecting 9.1 million um I was excited to see some of my expenditures I projected to be higher didn't come in as high um there's one other thing that like last year the unassigned would have been more but we transferred 300,000 back to the sanitation fund because it was going below the minimum fund balance because their yard waste operations are have been operating at a deficit I don't know this year if I got to transfer some money that's why I'm a little bit hes you know got 9.1 million there will we have to transfer some money this year to help out to keep the sanitation fund at the minimum fund balance but we'll still see um like I said fund the unassigned fund balance is increasing 55,000 based on these numbers we're at 20 the unassigned fund balance is at 20% 26% of expenditures and the minimum 20% amount is 7.2 million at September 30th 2024 and these are just explaining those categories I tried to go over earlier like the nonspendable the restricted the committed the assigned and unassigned and why we have to do that restriction I went ahead and tried to project out the the general fund unassigned fund balance uh with a night and if you see the column with the green columns are the unassigned fund balance the green bars the bronze colored ones are the minimum fund balance at the 20% uh The Gray Line is where we're at and projecting going forward so at the 9,181 1852 we're at like 27% of the expenditures the expenditures were like 34475 not 27% based on the average revenues and expenditures between both of the expenditures and revenues were at like 4.4 4.5% for both of those are pretty close and then but I also for the unassigned I projected that we put in 1% into the unassigned fund balance and about 2026 I had to do I was trying to keep it at 27% so I think in 2026 I had to increase at the 1.1% to keep it at that 27% but it's making sure we're increasing the fund balance with the with the 1% you all I've mentioned just trying to get into some of the other governmental funds we got the hospital lease fund they say what it was at the end of last year and then on the far right in yellow projecting it to September 30 2024 we got the hospital lease fund at at 3.1 million the arpa fund at 760,000 um all the arpa fund has to be obligated by this December 31st I'm happy to say we've got it all obligated we've spent 9.8 million we just have the 3 million left to spend so we're we're on schedule it's all obligated it has to be all spent out the door two years from now which I think we might have it all gone by this time next year um then there's a local option gas tax 56,000 the school crossing guard fund 11 12,000 handicap fund about 19,000 the impact funds uh the police impact fund same sort of schedule what balance was last year and then under the yellow the projecting at the end of September 30th 2024 police impact 584,000 fire impact for 34 4,000 Library impact 491 th000 Recreation impact 2800 General government 145,000 and transportation impact 135,000 and like I say impacts a I don't know if with less construction activity we were seeing actuals to budget was between the lotties between 20 and 30% of budget so less activity and money coming in from the impacts this last year is that a trend you expect to see continue well I you know I looked into the previous year and what we had we had three neighborhoods being constructed or subdivisions being constructed in 2023 this year from Talking we only had one so I'm hoping there's more development but uh I'd have to probably inquire of the planning department and building to find out what's on the where would go pardon me I don't know where they would [Laughter] be in terms of a development yeah um some other funds we've got the federal and they all got their separate purpose and I on these screens I try to put in you know the legal Authority what the restriction on use is the federal equable sharing we got 76,000 in it public art fund again on the far right column and the yellow is what the balance is projected for two September 30th 2024 uh public art funds 173,000 land preservation 8008 87 876 bucks but they spent money on the property down there at um MIRS and um Safford down there um recycling Grant 44,000 CRA balance of 1.8 million uh getting into the public education fund 24,000 police confiscated trust 34,000 employee benefit cost deferral 80,000 Capital project fund 97,000 sidewalk Improvement fund 1.7 million and the one one cent local option sales tax fund almost 8 million um a good bit of the bill that probably be spent on a some station 70 coming up that we got reserved out between 4.5 and 5 million for station 70 which is out for bid and I'm not sure i' for might I construction will start this year or might be next year next year well that's enough of the the finances for 2020 24 I just thought I'd give you you know an update on Hurricane Helen in Milton which has been keeping us all busy for the last month or so uh this is just a summary page of the force account labor debris damages hurricane H hen hurricane Milton and the total we had Force account labor for hen about 434,000 Milton 681 th000 so a little over almost 1.1 million of force account labor these are the people that work before during and after the storm during the EOC everybody that got worked towards the storm that got overtime it's 100% reimbursable since we it it was used during the first 90 days uh debris removal 33,000 Helen 5 million Milton for a total of 1 5.2 million you're probably going why is it mostly under Milton here well was a FEMA was trying to decide you know we had we had Helen they were starting to do the cleanup for two three days and all a sudden Milton was on the horizon they had to stop so that was the discussion where are you recording it under then FEMA made a vague ruling but they said to put most of it all onto Milton here so that's where we've got un filed under Milton um there's probably going to be more expenses here we got an estimate the other day I'm trying to get I I want to get more of an accurate estimate you know I keep going with people but it's going to go up I'm just not sure I hate to say if it's like another one 1.5 million 2 million but it's it looks like it's going to go up that total from the 5 million uh damages and I just want to say these are the initial numbers provided by departments uh the 3.9 million under Helen 54,000 under Milton and 4.4 million total these are the numbers we're presenting to FEMA that they want to see the initial amounts that we're going to record with them uh but hopefully we've gotten with the insurance adjuster to come out so hopefully a good portion of was insured and covered under insurance if not we'll be uh applying for the FEMA reimbursement for that what's the majority of the damage like where was the damage primarily was it in concentrated areas of like is this public buildings or or Sunset Beach I've got a list a little further here but Sunset Beach was a good bit almost questions in the end but Sunset Beach was almost a million dollars the estimate we've got the erosion on the elfers trail about 900,000 lift stations we got about 12 lift stations that sustain damage about like say 1.5 million worth of 12 of them one River Village was the biggest one loan for that one is like $700,000 for that lift station um so those were the three biggest items the marina Bild building got a lot of water in it I don't know if they're sure if they're going to demolish it or if they're going to try to fix it so that was another 300,000 were the lift stations mostly damaged by like debris coming through the water as it came through the salt water intrusion I believe and all their electrical got it yeah this was the debris and getting in the more specifics as provided by the contractor of course there's hurricane Helen the only thing we've got is the city labor for 133,000 but then we get to Milton with the vegetative and R which is right away to the to the DMS the debris management sort storage um and then from DMS to the where we fin finally locate that nice pile of stuff that's over there uh then CND D which is Con construction and demolition debris right away to DMS and then DMS to the final and then the grinding and compacting of the vegetative and the CND and then there's a management fee for the DMS site and then there's white goods that had to go from right away eventually to their final resting spot uh so this this was the breakdown of the debris totals which with the debris monitoring company that tetr which goes around with there's a Crowder truck you you'll have tetr Tech following these trucks with their iPads recording all this stuff where it is the addresses FEMA wants all this stuff so it total came to almost 5 million we have a we started using a consultant with the last couple hurricanes which is I think is a great help they helped us get there's something that FEMA provides you can file for expedited they they know that cities like us you know maybe you don't have all the money and you got to pay these contractors now to pay for all this so they get we're filed for expedited for 50% of the money which would be almost be 2.5 million it's already been obligated by email we've had the subgrant approved the money goes from FEMA to the state and everything funnels through the state so it's like you do all your paperwork with FEMA in the portal but then all a sudden you got to do all this paperwork with the um with the state as a subgrant agreements and all these other forms they want filled out it seemed like we're on track to be getting the money soon I just our con our cons our person with the state email and said Ron I think we're getting ready for payment the sub Grant was approved we're doing good so you know knock on wood we might see 2.5 million to offset the cost cost I haven't got any invoices yet from any of the debris people yet so they hopefully we'll have the money before the invoices come um and then um the balance of FEMA and then there was some City labor with Milton 2 of 56,000 so total of 5 million for um debris for Helen and Milton you were mentioning some of the damages I tried to list here Sunset Beach 985 th000 uh public SA safety building was incurring some I think it was mostly leaks in the building water leaking through from the through the the roof uh lift stations 1.4 million some sidewalk damage ERS Trail erosion uh Public Works had a pole barn with 990,000 of Damages and the marina building 300,000 and then I just lumped some of the other smaller stuff under miscellaneous for the total of 4.4 million and like I want to say these are the initial estimates from the Departments that they came up with FEMA will be going out to inspect these sites uh we talked to them yesterday trying to arrange to get them in here I think in the next week or two they go out and they're going to do their inspection of the sites what kind of deductible do we have for the insurance covered items well it's going to depend on the then there's a I'm not sure the individual ones I could probably find that out for you if it was how since it was a name storm is it higher like a like a home I don't know how that works for the city but I hate to say because I'm not sure but I could find that out for you um and this is just summing the summarizing the overtime labor what we saw before for Helen 434,000 and Milton 681 th000 like I say it's 100% reimbursable along with the debris since it falls within the first 90 days is 100% reimbursable funding for the debris um I I say $5 million the expedited hopefully we get soon almost 2.5 million that's leaving uh 2.5 million left to pay of that 5 million uh the balance we planned on coming the sanitation fund 1 million there's 1.5 million available in the sanitation fund we're going to use 1 million of that to cover part of that remaining balance of 2.5 million and a loan to the sanitation fund from the hospital fund to cover the balance of that one .5 million if any more money is needed over that amount as mentioned below we've still got more money in the hospital fund we've also got the sidewalk Improvement fund and if we need to we would U we would charge the general fund for any additional debris removal I tried really hard to catch up on the meeting Tuesday night all the way before today but I didn't and I actually stopped right in the middle of when vice mayor culo said why aren't we just taking this from the unassigned fund and I was watching in YouTube saying yeah why aren't we doing that why are we moving all the money around like that I didn't hear the answer you could and that's I think I mentioned the vice mayor if you want to we can charge it all to the to the um general fund or unassign fund Bal like why aren we using that money instead of money that's meant for other things and I just didn't I didn't get to the answer part we well we are hitting the general fund already if you see most of this overtime most of it's general fund people it's already being hit with the general fund overtime one of my questions too was on your fiscal year the 930 numbers like is that does that include the payroll that's acred through that date or just paid through that date oh yeah it's it's all the payroll and it includes Helen cuz Helen that's what I was wondering so it's it's done on like every every hour work through 9:30 right yeah not paid through yes it's all all the payroll it's and it's all Helen too cuz Helen fell into % where at includes 434,000 H labor or is this your estimate for the total like your 930 number for payroll expenses Personnel at um 2.4 million we're at 100% of our budget amount roughly does that include this whole 434,000 or I'm sorry what SL what slide are you looking at there um it's back aways so basically the overtime from Helen is in your 930 numbers correct 100% so that 434,000 is in the 2.408 that has you at the 100% of budget right cuz I'm just I'm playing the tap forward of my mind for the next however many years until this fiscal year falls off we're going be like why was payroll so high that year and then we're all going to say oh it was Milton and hel well and that's why sometimes when we do these comparative we go back five years we go oh what happened back in 2017 well that was Hurricane Irma you know we had the overtime and debris for Hurricane yes so yeah so without that number we're not as far off so your un aide balance projection at 9:30 though would include that 434 correct so 681 would be coming out of unassigned in fiscal 25 correct actually it's not coming out of unassigned is it is it's oh you're saying it's in the general fund just most of it is in the general fund it would be coming out of all the overtime most of it be coming out of the general fund 434,000 in 2024 and the balance in 2025 right and hopefully you know Bea 100% reimbursable I that's why I like the expedited but I don't know where that shows up on the money incoming where like I can't because we recorded as Revenue it's just like just a line item for Revenue we have a separate yes okay thank you um I think this is where I finished off this is my own slide in my own thoughts so far I talked you know after going to this with with the previous hurricanes we just had vegetative debris you know it would Irma every other ones it' be between 1 million 1.5 million the sanitation fund had the money but now we've got vegetative C and D household goods and all that and I'm going we're getting up in the five $6 Million worth of debris so I'm just thinking should we have start another de I'm just a debris Reserve account um you know this 50,000 that's a might have seen as part of the fund balance and disaster Reserve that was put in the budget back in uh was it U oh I got 1993 you know 50,000 doesn't go too far so I don't know if there's you know some sort of plan or you know I go well you've got unassigned fund balance but or should we have a separate Reserve just for disaster Reserve uh and that was my thoughts of just trying to build up that 50,000 to say okay do we need a million dollar there uh try to fund it with some other reserves fund it through the budget process like we're doing we're talking with the 1% just to try to build up another Reserve pot of money and Heen heaven forbid you know we don't have a hurricane next August or September just having some some money available so that that was only is that a lack of confidence that FMA will continue to reimb reimburse or no I'm just think mostly next year on the Hurricanes see if we yeah if we don't get reimbursed by September 30th 2025 and we don't have that money okay what if another Hurricane's coming in Irma took almost two years to get get the debris money from from Irma um this last year they did better we have a good FEMA consultant now she helped us with um what was the latest hricane idalia we got the money in less than a year um so I'm hoping and she's going to be the same one for Helen and Milton she keeps us on schedule you know go with everything so I'm hoping we get the money by September 30th 2025 if but not are we waiting into October November the next year until we we get the money okay what if there's another hurricane now we still don't have reimbursement for from the previous hurricanes Helen and Milton so I'm a worrier so that's why oh I get it my thing is like okay great so are we going to get commission to vote to have another Reserve fund we whenever we've tried to get them to beef up un unassigned Reserve Bal you know like the unassigned fund balance for me to me all of that is very just making it more complicated when we could just have that unassigned fund balance be beefier because we're in a very prone area and let's just own that and I frankly I feel like we need to redo a whole lot of decisions that were made prior to 9 whatever 24 that's what I've been banging around in my head you know well do we need a separate disaster Reserve or just like I say We'll beef up the UN I mean I think we do need a separate one we've always talked about the unassigned balance fund being for that day when a hurricane hits the city well it's happened now and now there's really no policy in place on well what's that un assign balance can what can it be used for well and like you say if okay if the minimum 7 .2 million we have almost 9.2 million okay you got 2 million the current unassigned balance and split it and reclassify part of it as a disaster Reserve now right because we because we have that room like you're saying the 2 point whatever million to still stay within the charter yeah and then if we're all saying you know well we're going to take it from the sidewalk fund until we get reimbursed from FEMA like that's the part I don't understand I think they're saying now if we have this disaster Reserve going forward in the future we won't have to borrow from this fund and that fund we've got the fund ready to pay our bills and then replenish it once we get reimbursement correct and then getting down below in the sanitation fund I thought you know they've been struggling with the yard waste operation used to be you know we had 400,000 revenues 200,000 expenses you know that big pile of yard debris got out there last year they ended up the charge increased to reduce the debris so now we're it's operating at a loss where we used to have like 200,000 a Prof now we're like like 100,000 of loss so about 300,000 that's why last year general fund unassigned fund balance could have been 300,000 more but I had to shift money to the sanitation fund to keep their near their minimum fund balance so it's been the cost of hauling out the debris went up from $20 a ton to $646 a ton and a lot of that big pile that was out there last year had to be hauled out at a loss because we only charge the customers $50 a ton but now we're hauling it out at $64 a ton and then they we increased the charge of the dump to um to $90 a ton but it seemed like we started to lose customers we didn't have as many customers coming in so we're still struggling with that operation out there as far as making money but now now all a sudden you've got all this hurricane debris out there in hen and Milton but I had a thought you know trying to one thought I had of trying to increase the reserves out at the um at the yard Wass facility is there's a 95 Cent charge that's been the same since 1996 and the main purpose of it was to provide money to help support the yard yard waste operations it's been 95 cents since 1996 it brings in about 125,000 annually I just threw out there every every dollar increase of course about 125,000 if we increased it three bucks to $4 okay that'd be an additional $375,000 there but this was all my own thoughts I don't think I've mentioned anything maybe maybe staff I don't know Fe On The is the fee on the water bill is that where it's coming through on yes it's all part of the refu and recycling Bill okay but you know with the with the yard waste operations and sort of a flux now and losing money and just trying to think of some ways to try to help prop it back up when you say yard waste is that only yard waste or is that all debris like Furniture the the large dumpsters is that separate no it's just the debris leaves and things okay so is it only yard waste losing money and okay so the solid waste the other way isn't no you know that's not losing because that's mostly going to the contractor we we we got the contractor weights we pay them and uh also with the recycling rates too we they all go to the contractors and I'm asking because if you say it's the it's so it's only the 95 cents per month is only to support yard yard waste generally generally the yard waste facility on normal operations without the storm only takes yard waste it doesn't take the other stuff on normal day the reason I'm asking is because I'm assuming that everybody that gets water pays that 95 cents yes so I was just it's on your utility bill right so the like the service where we pick up the um the solids the furniture the twice a year you know the thing that got put off to January they have a dumpsters out there don't they for the there's a there I'm just saying that's included that's free twice a year you can like you guys will haul off like any thing the the contractor will haul that off yeah I just the the idea of of up upleveling the yard waste piece I just if I were going to put a charge somewhere I would maybe not put it where even if you live in a an apartment or something you're paying more whereas maybe something that everybody pays for I don't know just maybe in my brain that just sounds okay yard waste versus I don't know if there's a fee for the other side there's not I guess um there is a fee I think they have a fee for container services and stuff maybe that's what I'm saying the twice a year thing is there anywhere we collect anything from people who live in the city for that benefit well we collect from the contractors that go in and DP yard waste is that what no are you you twice a year I can put a couch at the edge of the road is there anywhere that I kind of pay ref that's part of the contract with Waste Management two times it doesn't they y'all just I mean I mean we're paying for it it was just part of the contract contract incl in their rates so it's in the just the trash pickup got it okay okay sorry no I just want to make sure I just sometimes when you phrase it yard waste if I'm somebody who doesn't have a yard I might not be real keen on that fee going up whereas at least if it's something I get a benefit for I might yeah be a little more I apologize if I no I was just trying I don't know what all the different things are called it's a it's a lot it's yeah and my I would if we were going to go up that much on that rate I know four $4 itself it's not a lot but it's a huge percentage increase I would make it more transparent on the bill so people know what they're paying you know even if it's a dollar or something to go up a dollar or something like that dollar people wouldn't notice probably I just thre out $4 doll I was hopeful but I we graduated I go large and then I try to come back good negotiating um uh the effect on revenues going forward this year I don't see much besides it was been going to and I'll have a graph on this later but sales tax receipts declining a little bit this year property tax received everybody got their property tax bill I talked to the property payer if if somebody's hes got uninhabitable for 30 days they could apply for a refund from the property appraiser they still have to pay their taxes but then need to get a refund later but from what I understand there was no homes that were uninhabitable for 30 days so I don't see think we're going to see any reduction there I guess you know going forward you know my crystal ball you know our sales tax receipts you know obviously places for tourism places where closed down we'll monitor it monthly as we usually do with the sales tax receipts you know how much if how much we're going down from the previous months the one thing we just didn't know and the unknown was property values you know the property appraiser goes out in January starts appraising the properties but we'll find out in May that's when we get the estimate from the property appraiser of tax bill values so I think the property payers I heard said he didn't think there was going to be a too much of an effect so that's what we're hoping for cuz you know the last couple years have been good tax bill value about two years ago went up almost 14% last year the other year was 12 11 point something and then this last year budget we just worked on it was 99.18% so my quick guess is okay we went from 14 to 11 to 9 we're going about down about 2% a year well next year be 7% of that just a I guess so I don't know if we're going to see we won't see until May you know what the tax will values will be I met with somebody recently who and they sent me a report that um in areas that are affected strongly by a hurricane on average two years later their property values are on average 7% higher and it's because of whenever there's so many homes that have to be rebuilt yeah so a lot of like in my particular Street I expect a lot of homes will be sold for land value so the short-term hit is there and then the long-term gain is the report that I read that was interesting and I think the city manager is he still sorry I he had a good thing happened to be gone that day but they had a zoom meeting with the city of Fort Meers Beach where I think the first year they did see a decline but I think the next year they saw where things came back rather well down there so many increasing the values people rebuilding and they got bigger newer homes and that's what I would I would maybe at least hope for yeah me too what about permits aren't we taking a pretty big hit on Z permits and it's already down for the year well the W the permits I think I had an estimate you know maybe about $50,000 on the W on waving of the fees we waved some penalty fees for water and sewer I think that was more around 25,000 I think in total about $100,000 of the fees we've waved between permit fees uh water and sewer penalties uh water and sewer shut off fees I was up right around 100,000 bucks so not too bad but we were talking I I put these slides together I just let me just show you the the history of the of the taxes and stuff and of course this is property tax revenue in the blue bars and the change in in the bronze colored bars for the last 10 years and as you can see in 2023 we went up 1.5 million that was the almost 13 almost 14% increase and in 2024 was the 11% was a little bit over 11% increase in the taxable values and this is why I've talking about the sales sales tax I keep thinking of this term that Greenspan said irrational exuberance or something like that where you see in 20120 we went down what was that that was covid we we went down 79,000 and half cent sales tax money but then the next two years you got 2021 we're up 270,000 2022 we're up 245,000 okay on 2023 we started going down we're down 43,000 and this year we we increase 56,000 I don't know if we're just normalizing here we had everybody traveling and tourism in 20021 and 22 and we're just sort of settling back down um for the 25 budget we were watching this so we budget I think in the half C it's just maybe about 20 or 30,000 over that the actuals for 2024 um Revenue sharing which the main component is sales tax same thing 21 22 the big well we in 2020 we had the loss of it went down 67,000 but then in 2021 we're up 143,000 2022 we're up 251,000 and then we start going back down in 2023 down $31,000 increase and then this year we're $50,000 below the previous year so again I just know if it's just sort of normalizing out and again we budgeted just like 20,000 over that um for 20224 uh the other tax Penny sales tax same thing okay we went down in the 2020 but not in the negatives uh but we still had an increase of 40,000 but 2021 we went up 522,000 2022 we went up 494 th000 and we started going down in 2023 we only had an increase of 63,000 and then this year we're an increase of 8 $700 um I guess getting on to something else I just want to update you on the land dreads site approved by the voters November 5th the invitation to bid the banks went out on 116 the bids are du back tomorrow at noon the lender will be selected next week um and then it's going to go before the board on December 17th to approve the lender and they're going to close on that property either the end of December or the first week of January um some of the financing costs 5.3 million Finance 5.25 million for the land and 50,000 of issuance costs term for 10 years we've estimated 4% interest but I think our financial advisor he said he's more on the conservative side so I think it might be a little bit lower than the 4% at 4% the annual Debt Service is 665 ,000 each year it's a covenant the budget appropriated which means it's backed by all legally available non ad valarium revenues the other thing out there we were hoping the County's been trying to get a a grant for the the construct bracket bridge if they got the grant it would incl include us moving the utility lines but this was the second time they tried but I guess it it didn't pass again they're going to try again I guess um which means currently the city will have to go out for bid for a contractor to move the utility lines they can't construct the bridge until the utility lines are moved they are under the water um the estimate for bid is going out probably late spring we're trying to you know coordinate the timeline with the county so far they say they they would start construction I think latter part of next summer which which means we have to have the utility lines started and you know removed at that cost of 4.2 million uh I think when we go out to bid in March for a bank loan to have the money ready so we can start moving those utility lines but then coordinate with the county to see okay do we have to do it in March or maybe they're behind schedule and it can come later so that's the other financing uh we're looking at doing for the Becket Bridge utility line Rec location with that that's all I've got you got any questions did we uh in the 25 budget did we budget for that debt service on the land since we sort of knew that was a possibility no we didn't put that it was still sort of open back then when we were working on the budget so we'd have to find 665,000 for next year's budget well I've got it when we talked about it I got it planned in for the 665,000 okay what about the other whatever it's going to be another for the 550,000 I'm sorry what I mean I'm guessing if we have to borrow 4 million for that that'll come out of the water and sewer fund and we did know this was coming this Becket Bridge construction has been ongoing for I think five six years now I hate to say but the initial estimate of cost was to move the utility lines was like 800,000 bucks six or seven years ago so it's gone up but we did when we worked on our rates we did have 3 million factored into the rates for this relocation so we just have to we're going to do another utility rate study this winter and we'll factor in the additional million dollars to see how we can cover that within the water and sewer fund so with both of those in place next 25 we will have a little over million dollars in debt service on the two items right correct the one would be coming out of the penny fund the other one would be coming out of the water and sewer fund random question about the earlier thing on the Duke Energy where they said oh we overpaid you last year yeah do we ever get audited numbers for them or can questioning that that just well you know that's a good question we have had hired an auditor to go through and and check all the properties make sure we're getting all our money so that is something we could do again back you're thinking out loud about the disaster fund debr whatever yeah where did that go from here is that something you're going to continue to look at or well it' probably be something probably discussion with the city manager and whether to bring that up to the board I'd just like to look at some Avenues to just have just plan you know before we we knew we we've only experienced vegetative debris but now we had C and D we're going seeing cost going from 1.5 million to 5 million okay maybe we need some more Reserve here somewhere so just opening it up for discussion right now okay and as part of that discussion I would say there needs to be a policy in place of how and when that unassigned balance gets spent what what types of things could it be spent on what approval would be necessary I don't think we have a policy guiding that right now do we on the spending of it on the UN unassigned balances there's some policy in place on well if it's over the minimum you're we're open to spend the money okay so I just want to understand what is the benefit to having it no knowing that knowing that if we CU we we did just get it they're going to do an extra 1% did they agree I can't remember exactly how that went down yes they did they did the 1% a year like to get that stronger the unassigned fund balance stronger is there a benefit to that is it is the whole reason for all of this is because if we take the money to temporarily pay bills that FEMA is going to reimburse and put the money back in an assign balance we have to worry that we might fall beneath the minimum for a short time and then we'll have those repercussions is that why we do the other moving round of money are are you talking about as far as the the debris removal why why do the loan from why not just use it okay if we need three we have three million that we need to spend okay we've got 5 million of debris removal we got 2.5 expedited coming in but we might still have 2.53 million we still got to spend right that's the thing do we do a loan from another fund to cover it until the we get FEMA reur or do you cover you just charge it all to the to the unassigned which of it goes from if it's 9 million 9.1 million we TR we take off 3 million we'll go below that minimum and I and I feel like the only way we ever get them to get that unassigned balance up where we're all more comfortable where we wanted it before is if we do have some of those fluctuations shown I feel like it's a false sense of security to borrow up from other areas to cover so we're like oh look our unassigned F fund balance never drop below 9.1 million that's not true but that's just not a true story and so I don't like that my only concern with going below the minimum is if somewhere it's in the Pol I've got the policy or if I was in case you asked for copies and stuff but if you go below the minimum and we're working on next year's budget and maybe our sales tax revenues are down we we're trying to balance the budget maybe our revenues aren't quite what we're used to and our expenditures are going up we're not allowed to use the unassigned fund balance to balance the budget if we're below the minimum so that was a a factor out there was weighing in my mind that we'd be limited we couldn't use it to balance a budget we haven't used it in the last eight nine years without it like I you know I'm just saying like those all those all those guard rails are in place for a reason and so here we are looking at the false sense of security that we really have plenty of unassigned fund balance which you know I would argue we don't and tried to in front of them in front of commission um million dollars more in debt service like Rising expenditures the possibility of a drop in values next year you know all those things kind of come to a head and you very quickly go from a very financially Strong City to not so much and so I think we tried to convey that to commission several months ago and there were some Chuckles yeah in the meeting and that you know that's annoying to to see and it's like I don't like to be right in terms of I told you so but here we are like that's exactly what we said like what if there's a lot of what ifs here we are with what if yeah if you got what if another hurricane next August September you know exact so I'm just say like I just I also similarly like if it's a disaster Reserve whatever if that's on top of I don't want three years from now it's like oh we can let the unassigned fund balance go a little lower because we've got this disaster Reserve over here and it's like if it does start I I understand why um it was mentioned shell game it does feel a little like that and I know why that has to be that way to make a budget work I I do get it but on the other hand then it just lets everybody have this false sense yeah it's like a balancing act too okay what pot of money are we we're getting to pay for this from right well we could spend less and have a bigger pot to save for a disaster when we live where we live at zero C Level and we you know we're got a place to dump some sand I hope we have a working dock that's not underwater let's let's figure that out so how are we going to do that I don't know but we tried we but we did have the you know you mentioned the 1% we had it in last year's budget we've got it in this year's budget to fund the 1% it's in the budget question on that policy I don't I know it's been there forever and doing some research on the unrestricted fund policies I see most of them I wouldn't say the majority but a lot of them have minimums and maximums ours was only set up with the minimum is there a particular rationale for that other cities yes a maximum they have a maximum but you're restricted fund has to be between if it goes above that maximum they there's other parameters on which that money can be used then I've only seen you know usually you have a minimum fund balance po I haven't heard of a and most well most of those most of those also have a mechanism to put money into that that's the reason they can sometimes go above that level you know and I did a survey just within the last year on the screen I don't know if it was in your back up there but clear waters is 8% minimum Denon 177% Largo 10% with a Target 20% St Pete 20% and gfoa our government Finance Officers Association recommends 177% which is two months of expenditures ours is at the 20% some probably do a maximum so that you're not just sand bagging money every year yeah yeah they may well be but I I did find a the good number of places that ones I looked at had maximums in them so I was just wondering what the history of ours was in maximum so you wouldn't have any more than that if you went above that that money then had other parameters for being utilized by the city commission they could use they could use it for onetime expenses nothing recurring would need additional staff they could use it for one time expens some of the rationale on that being if you're building up all those funds then you're not spending the taxpayers money on the taxpayers you're just building up cash reserves well there is in the policy if you're over the minimum but it says um in the event that the unassigned fund balance of general fund or of the unrestricted net assets of the propriety fund exceeds amount set above set forth above the excess may be utilized for any lawful purpose if it's over the minimum is our policy a policy also States you know if you're you go below the minimum you have two fiscal years to bring it back up to the minimum correct is that part of the charter is it's just a policy investment polic I'd like to see instead of just some any lawful purpose I'd like that a little bit more restricted um I had copies of it if you if you wanted it but yeah I had some additional slides here but I didn't know I know you chairman you were mentioning the investment policy and I put some stuff in here myself you know what what it this is the general fund where it's at 20% in in red I had some thoughts I ran it by our Auditors you know 20% with a Target rate of 25% and then in red I also put if the unassigned fund balance is between 20 and 25% the shity shall budget a minimum of 1% to fund unassigned fund balance and then I added in budgeting the minimum 1% would be waved if the city is undergoing and I put Financial emergency I didn't know if there was some other wording to to call that but I just I just put this together I know you had your question so in that way I like the idea of the disaster Reserve as long as it doesn't reduce the requirement upon like is that a way we can get more ready readily available as long as it doesn't reduce the unassigned the unassigned yeah requirement like as long as it's not like then everybody starts thinking oh we could have less there that's why I was trying to think there might be a couple other reserves which we could help build up that $50,000 Andor if we're budgeting for disaster Reserve along with funding the unassigned fund bals but it's well I like the concept you got but we'd have to look at that a little more yeah my other thing I put in the policy is I might have mentioned this that the water and suit the Enterprise funds water sewer storm water um sanitation they have a 25% minimum the marina and Golf Course were never included because they've been in a deficit for a lot of years they not in a deficit anymore um Golf Course got out of the deficit just last year about 300,000 they're doing again this year they might have a fund balance of six 600 700,000 I just throwing this out there I just thought I just I even put it 5% just to make it small I think it's more like so somebody's looking at it to make sure they've got a report on that we're at least 5% so we don't get into the negative fund balance again with the golf course I mean it was been since we took it over in 96 it was just negative fund balance the whole way and it in fact it was 1.3 million in the whole just four or five years ago I'm just amazed when Co and I think people wanted to start golfing it's just it's just feeling great guns right now for the for the golf course I think it should have a minimum balance and really truth to be known the golf course owes the general fund Monday don't tell them that but well you know I will tell them that every day because you don't Golf out [Laughter] no but my neighbor works there well you know they we used to in fact that the the it was 275,000 when they started years ago I gradually decreas started decreasing at six seven years ago 275,000 250 200 then it was 120 and gradually eliminated would eliminated the in fund transfer to get Al together about two three years ago so there's no transfer from the golf course or Marina to the general fund there never was from the marina but the Marina's a small fund it's maybe $150,000 budget but well since the golf course is in the black now maybe we resume that allocation start recouping some of that money in the general fund I told him I wouldn't I know you I tell him I lied I have had this discussion for I just so I just so happy to see him in the positive after you are that means I can start paying now yeah I'm good with I'll tell them let you guys advis that there you go nothing I can do um I don't know if I had anything on we can allocate all that beer and wine there you go well they they are you know Tommy was up y they got plans for a new Clubhouse you know so they're part of the money that being used but there might need financing too for if you got a clubhouse that's going to be $3 million and trying to finance that over 10 years but he had it all factored in if the rates are still if the revenues are still coming in and so I think they are due for a new Clubhouse out there they have been for a while yeah this screen was just the one that says you know any deficit last sentence any deficit required must be restored no later than the end of the second fiscal year following the occurrence so are those things we want to look at for future meetings yes I agree that it any else new business okay any public comments John rest of the story thank you for having me uh letting me speak I'm John kulanis 1020 Peninsula Avenue do you do that address thing here like we do downstairs all right so um you know you are you guys owe the city and you owe the commission a huge I told you so because you know if we had to listened to you and raised the fund balance of the Reserve I mean the Reserve balance by that 1% if we had done it for 5 years we'd have about about 13 million in the account right now instead of probably more than that probably 14 15 million with with compounding interest and we' be in a little better shape and maybe wouldn't have to go um swipe money from other funds that are unrelated um so you know I don't want to relitigate that that uh what happened on Tuesday night but um you made my point when we take the funds from other places and you just heard the city um City Finance director who I love dearly say we have n $ million no we don't we don't have $9 million we just took the we owe these uh the hospital we owe the sidewalk we owe them money but the appearance of having this Surplus still exists when in fact in reality it doesn't and that's my concern and that's why I was pushing so hard for that on Tuesday I don't want to give the appearance I want it to look like we have no money because we don't right I don't want to have it look like we're um representing something that we don't have um so the um you know it I want you guys to be cognizant and and and the city uh Finance director touched on some of this you know our three sources of revenue we went over this down at the commission meeting you know avalor taxes okay values we're going to know in May whether they're down or not they are and I think think what we heard from the city I was on that call and with the other city with fin with the city manager they had a big now they were hit harder than us so it's proportionate but they were hit hard year one much harder in year two and then had the rebound in year three so we're we're looking to going to be in one of these dips maybe okay um sales tax you know you can imagine that all of our they've been going down naturally and they're going to you can assume they're going to be going down tourism was hit hard by the Hurricanes um and you know we got our half cent our state share and our Penny pinelis which again the city uh Finance director you know relies on that penny for pinelis very heavy and he talks about it quite a bit oh we're going to get our money from penny for pinelis well that is is most likely going to get hit as well um what he didn't touch on is services we get a a big chunk of our money comes from water and sewer fees and we've probably got uh we we're giving a lot of braks to people that uh on their water and sewer fees and we're also um we probably got a lot of homes that the water and sewer the water's been shut off and that we're creating getting no fees from again we'll know in May um yeah so the one thing I worry about and what what the city manager when we were on that call was that what was happening in the community that was that we talk to it the storm with the rebuilding started changing the demographics of the town and yeah they did get more money but you let's say for example somebody lives in the fruit bowl district has a home uh and now they you know with that 50% thing and all that even though they might be exempt because they're in a historic district they're not going to who's they're not going to get a they're not going to get financing how they going to get finan to rebuild on the same land right at at the same level so they and then they can't afford to go up and they sell their land and then somebody comes in and buys it and builds a much bigger house that's a whole demographic change right instead of having the the little old lady that's been there for her whole life um she's has to go and now you've got you know a higher end people but it changes the demographics good or bad it does so those are you know some of the side consequences you know we looked we had lunch with the city manager today and we we got into a pretty esoteric conversation about the role of government right and um what you know when when we first started in our country right we had the role of government was very very small you you you you dug well to get your water you had a gun to do to protect yourself you you know all those things and now slowly government starts doing more and more and more and more for you right like oh oh my house got damaged I'm putting the stuff out there I expect government to come and get the stuff and take it away from me oh and they're going to do it at no cost there is no no cost immediately and they're going to do it right now but there is no no cost okay um you know like oh we got we have that one day where everybody they come around and pick up all your your household goods and you think oh that's for free no it's not no it's not they that's why they you don't think that the waste man management doesn't put that into the charge that they're going to oh you want you want all this pick up you're going to you oh we're going to pay for it and eventually that comes back on you right all of us we're all taxpayers here and we all pay that bill so you know I I don't want to be you know Chicken Little saying you know the sky is going to fall um but I don't want to be stupid and I don't want to be an ostrich with my head in the sand we are going to have challenges and then and I promise you you'll have my ear when you come up to the podium the next time uh because and again I expect that I told you so so um but we you know we're going to have to make tough choices and chrisy you are you're the only one I've ever heard again I didn't come to all your meetings so other people might have said this remember when you were talking about um somebody was up here talking about their department and you said like and you said I you I may not make any sense but I don't it's like you're just bringing me what you spent last year and you say I can need 3% more like you're not justifying anything right you don't you remember you were sitting in that chair right there I didn't say quite like that like I was a little different but I yeah you were challenging no no because because what here's what happens in government and I know these people all probably hate me after I get done saying this but I I I I I'm not here for them I'm here for those people that might be watching on this TV screen when somebody comes up and says hey my department I spent $5 million last year uh I need a three I need three and a half% more right um now you think that they're going to come to you and say I only spent 4 million last year I didn't spend the 5 million you gave me so uh I don't I don't I don't want that much or I found all these efficiencies I I don't need 5 million just give me three I'll be good how many times you hear that have you heard any anybody say that no so push back you know make them um explain why they need it not I spent this much last year that's why I needed that's not a reason make him explain it that's what you were trying to do our new city manager make them explain it no but how but no but because but you're you're our first you're our first line of defense you're our first line of defense I don't want to get in the weeds of anybody's job I think our job here is a little bit different than that a little bit but yeah I want to push back it's the um it's the complacency piece and and I'll just say that in my normal day job business I don't give money budgets it's time it's a different thing because money is so easy to like well because we don't we have we have to make a profit okay we come from the private sector where and then I I need four people to run my store every one of them have to be productive I know exactly why I want them I know exactly what they do I'm not saying that we aren't productive in our city I'm not saying there's there's one wasted human being in our city I'm not saying that I'm just saying it needs to be questioned because if we're going to hit tough tough times if we're going to have a couple tough years it where's the Restriction come from there's only so many funds that they can go grab money from to fill the gaps up it it's we have we're going to have to make hard decisions and so when you push it makes them you know sharpen that pencil a little bit more knowing where they're coming that this isn't just an easy oh you know we're going to get some more money I'm going to go I'll just steamroll over that and and and we you know um you know we don't we don't get those hard questions down even downstairs when you know you and you guys do more of the heavy lifting than we do because you spend a heck of a lot more time reviewing this budget than when it comes down to the to the commission and you know the questions you get down there are almost silly right um so and and it's great when you have those big UPS right when they tell you hey we're you your your uh property value just went up 177% sh we're we're drunk with money then we're good we can go maybe this isn't maybe this isn't a 4% maybe it's only a 1% maybe it's a nothing increase maybe it's a decrease I don't know we'll know a lot more in May but anyways I appreciate what you guys do and just continue to be tough St thank you any other public comments board and staff comments I do actually I hate that he's going to miss it make him watch it on the replay I do have go Ahad go ahead and that is I just a a I know that this committee is required as a part of something I just don't know what it is I don't know what it is and maybe Michelle can fill me in on that um not later you don't have to do it today but I I had considered resigning from this board because I did not feel like this um board is taken very seriously and and I this is I know you apologize to me and I'm I'm not calling anybody out but when they did the salary recommendation approval within the board and they didn't even ask what the board recommended nobody in the commission asked we weren't even brought up in hindsight we were brought up there was just a lot of I'm like this is just this is a fake job if you've ever heard about fake jobs I have a fake job and it's just to do the thing and check the box to say we have that I don't know if it's to be a certain type of City I don't I know what it is but I do not think that our opinion is held to the um to to what it should be for the time that's invested by us here and the amount of care and concern that exists and so I want to make sure that whatever can be done by that and it's and is as seen by this right like they didn't listen to the meeting very well in my opinion from the commission and this is about the commission and this the General Air of like oh the budget advisory in my opinion has to exist for whatever reason and then but whatever they say it doesn't really matter it's not like Planning and Zoning where we make a it's not the same it's just different and this is the money and I'm just like are you kidding me of all the things to not have it have any weight whatsoever it's the money and that really doesn't make sense to me um and I just don't want to be here under that uh umbrella of care and concern about the committee that's my comment thank you any other board and staff comments future agenda items other than we need to address the things that Ron brought up today in terms of changes to the investment policy and possibly the unrestricted fund policy we need to look at those again in the future also I would um a change for going into next year's budget generally when we start our budget meetings the budget's pretty much done yes I found and so I would say like maybe our March meeting we'd be given by Ron or whoever uh a list of assumptions that are we're going into the budget with so that we know before it's being built and so we could question them at that time usually start the process in March April um well in March we're usually getting the number from the Departments we have talked about moving that up and trying to start a little bit earlier and especially with city manager rud he maybe getting he might want to get more involved in the budget earlier so yeah we I don't know if March maybe April at the latest for you to try to start going over the assumptions yeah probably March I would say the earlier the better okay I know in well we'll make do but I know in March we're trying to get the audit done and stuff but we we can start I'm sure we could find yeah nothing in just just something talking the major assumptions just an overview of going into this process these are the major assumptions we're going to make so that we know beforehand we start in may with our detail review and we're CED behind the eightball already knowing what what philosophy and hopefully maybe we'll push up the department so maybe when we come to you in March we could already say these are what these departments are looking for and I know the city manager is starting a CIP process asking all the Departments now maybe by then we could have that CIP ready for you to look at okay thank you any other suggestions for future budgets okay what is the date for the next meeting I know December's out because of holidays I don't know when you'll have something else to report back on or in terms of where we're at financially well sometimes we do like um I think as you might be in we might have done one in February trying to figure maybe the first three months of the year where we're at or we've got more final numbers for the audit for 2024 if you want to hear those again yes I know my presentations are [Laughter] riveting I think they're important to know yeah at various stages maybe we could find if anything else comes up or the financings or anything else that's coming up so you're saying February then how about February that good for everybody else okay and what does what would that day Michelle February would be 15th 15th okay oh I'm sorry I'm sorry Val say is on the 14 wrong year okay February 20th for the next meeting anything else then I'll join this meeting at 3:16 okay thank you thank you thank you can't believe great holidays and because of Thanksgiving being late so late you you you lose a weekend you do I and being in retail that sucks e e e e e e for