WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=qzRaFefKSLE

Part: 1

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Call the meeting to order. Call to order. Roll call. Miss hole here. Miss Hills is absent. Miss McKinney here. And Mr.

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Marcus here. All right. New business, number one review discussion. July 7th. BOC work session. City manager and

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finance director. I'll turn it over to you. Well. Sorry, a little flustered here. Yeah. We didn't know if you guys wanted

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to go back through that presentation. I can give some more high level information. We can go jump into some more details. I know you had a bunch of questions. That's okay. No,

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I understand. I didn't realize that you were new to the board as of last year. So yeah, that's a lot of information to take in if. Yeah, yeah. So no worries at all. I'm sorry that I didn't have more information

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to give you. I got out before she got on the board, and then she ended up getting me back. So I'm going to kind of throw it back to you guys. Do you want me to go back through last week's presentation, or do you

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want to kind of get more into specifics? I was there to see it. So I also saw it as well. Okay. And I didn't have any further questions on what, what

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you kind of covered. Okay. So just to kind of give you an idea of where we're at now, which isn't much further along than last week. Right now we

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are working with the different groups for property and liability insurance, getting new estimates from them, as well as the big one right now is, is health. So we met with

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the gearing group on Friday. They presented a couple scenarios, but Tabitha, the HR director myself, we asked them to kind of go back and run some

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more scenarios of what different plans would look like. We're just going to kind of keep pushing back and see like.

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What kind of cost savings we can get, but also sort of the best overall plan for the group.

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So employees, do we have total for the insurance? Tabitha here. No. 405 on insurance. Oh, on on

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insurance. I think it's 303 60 somewhere around there. Oh I'm trying to think the ones that aren't 190 it's about it's just

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over 300. Okay. Yeah. So it's really, I can't give a percentage right now until we, we get some of that information back is huge. But I understand why you're using it because you

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don't know. We didn't know. Yeah. The guesstimate that, you know, kind of came in was 25%. The only city that already got their numbers was Oldsmar and

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their number was 30%. So that's the only gauge we've got. But again, we're anticipating the high number that she originally did. And that's why we're going through this whole process of

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rebuilding relooking, because we kind of we kind of knew we were going to be in that area, but that that's the only one I know of because we meet as city managers every Friday now, one

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meeting in person, then the next three Fridays are virtual. So as of last week, Oldsmar is the only one who had got their estimate and they may be doing some other things. And theirs,

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theirs was right at about 30%. Yeah. And I just I went with 18 because I would rather bring that number down and have good news to share with everybody

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than the opposite. And Mark, I think you agree with that. So still working on that. Hopefully we'll have those the health numbers in the next couple of weeks. Other than

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that, right now we're working on I spent a lot of time with the general funds leading up to June 30th. So now I'm transitioning to the other funds. I don't know if you guys

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remember, but in the PowerPoint presentation for the general fund, I showed what we call a long range plan. So I'm building that for each of the funds to kind of, I, I go off

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of the reserves and specifically, like, I need to know where we landed. What were the actuals in 25? Where do we think we're going to land in 26? And then that helps me build

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those outer years. So specifically. 27 so that's what I'm working on currently are are pulling together those plans for all the funds. Penny fund, CRA, the enterprise funds.

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So those will help you, the EOC and ourselves. These, these are but a lot better, clearer for you when she does that. And and I have a question, if you don't mind, like when a department

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budgets something for, let's say, $300,000, it's and it's explained what it's for. And then for some reason they don't use that. I had asked you in

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this question then can they use that for anything? It stays in their budget. Right. So are you talking about for the year? Just for the year. So yeah, if they if they well, we're kind

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of in a different time right now. So anything that's not going to be spent is kind of running through Mark. Like, okay, we're going to put that in. We're going to let that

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fall back to fund balance that gets saved. But prior to this current year that we're working on, usually if they had an expense and they don't need

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that money, but they have a need for something else, they can, you know, transfer those funds somewhere else. And do they have to go through anybody for that? I don't know. The dollar threshold is here, but

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normally runs through finance and the city manager's department. Yeah. Usually anything other than looking at it other than $100 or something that because I would hate for like trying to put $500,000

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down for something and then say, oh, well, we don't need that anymore, but we're going to use it over here for this. And nobody's monitoring that. I think they all know it in the

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past how we did that. Obviously, when you get lucky enough to have a $300,000 thing come in at 260, you got the rest of the year to go through and you're

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going to have something else at 100,000 that goes 130. So usually departments kept that money just it was there for the next item to come as they got

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towards the end of the year, usually May, June or July. You're getting close to those things. Then they may come to me and ask, listen, we we've saved so far $50,000. We need

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this piece of equipment for 30. Are we allowed to do that with. But they do have to ask. Yes, okay. But usually they wait till the. Because like I say, for every good. And even if you get a bad. You're hoping

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another good comes along to balance that bad. And your money in your own budget is good, right? And the same thing the other way around. If if they budgeted for $50,000 and

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it actually came out to be more and it's not in their budget, so then they have to go to the board and ask for it, right? Well, if they have another line item in their budget that they

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expect savings from, they can just they can transfer it there. However, if overall, if we're increasing the budget that has to be adopted by commission, so

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it has to go through resolution to the Commission. And is there a limit or can under a certain amount just be handled or only over a certain amount has to go to the board? And if you're

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changing the fund, the general fund expended expenditures. It's a dollar. Okay. And then I'm sorry. I'm sorry for all these questions. You guys go ahead because people are

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watching again. Hopefully people are going to watch this meeting because we're putting up there with all the other stuff we're putting out. So there's a lot of people out there who. So these questions

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get them some answers. And okay, I worked, I worked for two different kinds of companies in my lifetime. Okay. One was. In

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retail. I was a manager of a store. And what they, they rewarded us with profit sharing, meaning that if you are able to

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get under your budget for that year, anything that was additional. I'm not talking about sales, profit, any savings then got shared with

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the employees or it was called profit sharing. Anyway, then I worked for recently worked for the federal government funding

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program, and by October 1st, if we didn't spend all our money, we lost it. And then the next year our budget would be reduced because they think we

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didn't need it. So in September, we're out buying all these computers and we're doing all these things, trying to spend the money that wasn't spent out

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of the budget. And I think I like the savings better than I like the hurry up and spend all this money. So I don't know if,

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if like, if a department can save money that would either go into the reserves or, or towards something else, there could be some kind of an incentive for doing that to

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help them to be really careful with. But there's several things that usually happen. One, if they get to that money at the end of the time and there's again, like something they really need, they got to have

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the opportunity to do this department to tell you. Also, sometimes their saving is used to help another department that, for an unforeseen reason, got a serious hit. So that 20,000 may

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go to Chris and Public Works because something happened and there's a big expense. And then obviously it's not it helps us balance because, you know, we

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don't know the balanced budget. It's November or, you know, the budget might end September 30th, but we don't know how balanced is. And so some of that money sits there and waits and see if

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it has to balance for something else. And of course, if not, then it ends up in a reserve thing. But many times the Department of Health, other departments out in savings. But again, a lot of times there's

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like the wish list or something, or maybe something they were going to do in the next budget cycle, and then that saves 50,000 from the next year. Okay. We're just you've got it now. So, so that saves 50,000 from

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next year and that can go to your thing. But a lot of that, a lot of that helping between the departments happen. Yes. In the past many years it is because, you know, you usually know, you know, the

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department's hurting because of whatever happens to do it and stuff. And, you know, the money is available. But way back in the old days, in my younger days and stuff, that used to be

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a thing, hurry up and spend it before September 1st. But people caught on to that. Then, of course, since I knew about it, they couldn't trick me with that kind of stuff. So in the old days they used to happen

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happen a lot. But but in recent times and more better accounting and stuff, it's very easy to catch somebody who's all of a sudden you've got a grocery order, you know, 2000

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rolls of paper towels in the end of September, something to to spend your money. So it got too easy, easy to catch and stuff a long time ago, that kind of stuff. But that did

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happen a long, long time ago. Okay, then I also noticed that like. And I don't understand it, so you can try to explain it to

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me under the there's a lot of, let's see, under the non departmental and I understand

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what that is, but. There's some some of the non departmental. Budget is listed under water

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and sewer. You know what I mean. It's like maybe is the is there funding coming from water and sewer that goes towards. I

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guess what I'm saying is, you know, people are always complaining about their water bill and it's going to go up again. And I understand because there's so much work that needs

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to be done that I totally agree with. Okay. But is the water and sewer department making so much money that they're paying for other things that have

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nothing to do with water and sewer? No. So they're just sharing the load of some of these citywide expenditures.

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But it's a big load. Another big fund. Yeah. Otherwise, so are we people paying for water and paying for I know, like,

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for example, Sherry is on that. So like out of my water bill and I helping to pay for sherry technically. Yeah. I mean, so you can think of it that way,

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but it's also just is there anything we can do about that? So that when I'm paying my water bill, I'm paying for water and sewer and their expenses? Well, because it's,

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it's, I don't know the amount, but it's a long page of expenses coming out of water and sewer. Well, I mean, we spend a lot of time working on water and sewer. It's a huge

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fund. So between all the different projects they have going on, I mean it's just sort of a service. So we could we could split it out to justify

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why it's going up another 7%. Well, that's mostly because rates were reduced for a long time. They lost their reserves. They've got huge capital

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projects that they have to do. And who's going to pay for it. It's not the general fund that pays for that. It's the water and sewer. That's the customers. So that's really why the it

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comes more down to those capital projects being so big. Okay. I just I'm thinking about my own water bill. You know, I used to pay like $79 a month.

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And, and it gradually went up and I was sitting at around 150 for a while. And now all of a sudden I'm up over 200, almost

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300 and and then I'm anticipating, what is it, 7%. It's going to go up again. Yeah, seven, seven and a half. Yeah.

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And is that increase anticipated increase already in the budget. Yeah. You're already counting that money to be spent. Yes. Okay. So it's

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not going to be an additional 7%. No. That's already baked in. Okay. Yeah. And you know, the flip side is okay, well, if we

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take any expenses that come out of the water, sewer fund needs to be paid somewhere. So then that's general fund. So then let's say we increase taxes,

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but we don't know how that's going yet. So there's not really like a good. Rate. Well, now that I know that I can look

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at it closer. But I just that was one of my general questions. I just think of it. Enterprise funds supposed to pay for themselves. And that's all services that you know, what

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they get from pay, what they get from all the players in the city. It's supposed to pay for it for its own. So and I know past finance directors and, and

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I know that's how she thinks and stuff. It's very meticulous because you can't pad extra money, for instance. Okay, we're going to charge more and get it out of water and sewer to help us with general fund.

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There's formula you've got to be ready to justify. And if somebody times there that time, you have to really evaluate how much time somebody is in and that's what's charged to people.

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Or if you've got a whole finance department and you know, 20% of the time is finances on water, then it may go under a certain person or stuff, but it's really the formula of 20%

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of their time is spent on water. So water is paid at 20%. Now it might be an individual person. They might not exactly do the whole bit, but someone, the other people in there. And again, our finance directors

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have been meticulous because you can come into real problems if you try to fudge those numbers. And for instance, the CRA, you say, well, this is 100% CRA, and that worker is

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working across town somewhere else, and you see them there all the time and you're charging the CRA, you run into serious problems there. So so the fund pays for actually the

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city work that that goes into it to pay for itself as an enterprise fund. Okay. Also I

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saw in that inter departmental fund application in their budget. There's long term

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insurance, long term insurance you have in front of you. It's

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a on page 142 and it's. I'm sorry, the description is. On

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143. Line 45 long term disability. Yeah. Long term disability. Usually long term disability is paid by the

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employee because it's an additional benefit. I have to look at that. I don't have that answer off the top of my head.

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Okay. I mean, unless anybody in the crowd has it, I might have been I mean, I entered the budget, I might have accidentally put long term, short term, short term, but

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even short term, you know, when I was working, I had if I wanted long term or short term insurance outside of my health insurance, that was something I

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could buy into. I had a choice. Nobody from HR is here. Okay, I'll have to look into that. I don't have all the I don't have everything memorized yet. I

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need a little more time. Yeah. Sorry. You may be the very

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first citizen that I have met that went through every page I went through every. I could tell more than once I could tell I'm. I'm impressed. And when I, I. Okay. And so like

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when I had noted that it said that we're increasing it by 50,000. But when I did it, I was only getting 15. I was using the wrong. And you showed

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me that. But then I went back to just double check what I was doing wrong. Okay. And on that particular one, it was like it

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was $185,000 more for that line. And I was subtracting out the revised budget instead of the

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original budget. And so I was getting less than 185. And you said to use the original budget. Well, on that one line, the original budget budget was

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$6,500. And oh, and it went up to 85. Somewhere in there. The revised budget was like $76,000.

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Well, and so when I was doing the difference, I was doing the difference from the revised budget, not the original. And so then now I'm looking at like, how, how did that get revised?

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Is that because it was at somebody needed something and they had to go to the revised budget right now includes that carryover budget resolution that we did at the beginning of

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the year. So the that carryover is any purchase order that was open at the end of the year, but we haven't received the goods or services yet. We carry that budget over. It's already been committed. We're carrying

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it over. Maybe the invoice came in a week later after the year end. So that's why that budget gets pulled over. Also uncertain capital projects. Sometimes it gets budgeted in

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one year. Projects not done. It wasn't budgeted in the next year that gets rolled over. So that is the big increase there like that. Okay. So when I'm looking at the difference, I'm

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saying well why? Yeah, yeah, that's a big difference. Yeah. So that's probably what that is. I'm sorry for all the questions. No need to apologize. Like I

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said, I'm impressed. I like that you wrote them out. And we can get you some of the answers ahead of time and stuff. And yes, so therefore, I'm not going through all of the

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questions that I asked in email. There were just some things that. I wanted to say out loud.

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And. You know, as far as the employee benefits that I've been asking about that for five years, this is the fifth year I've asked about it. When I

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first started going to board meetings, and I heard that the insurance was confirmed. And then I heard that it was a

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seven, let's say, a 7% increase. And then the board voted to absorb it, absorb that, and also absorb the 7% increase on

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the family part of it. And so that means I'm saying, wow, we're paying for part of the family coverage too, not just the employees. And so I don't know where I got my numbers

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from. It was somewhere. And, and I'm adding it up and I'm saying somebody with a family, this is four years ago because this is the fifth time the

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family plan the employee is paying. They haven't had a raise in all these years. And the city is paying more than what the employee is paying for

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the family plan. And it was like, wait a minute, how many how many times are we going to absorb this? I thought, well, maybe it's the first time we're absorbing, you know? And the next year the same thing

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happened. And then the next year it was like a 14% increase. And it happened again. And I'm saying I never worked a job that my insurance didn't go up.

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Yeah. I'm not sure if they ran the numbers or what they looked at in prior years, but we are looking at that this year. And also, are they given a level of benefits that they can buy for

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the family? I know the employees are covered, but like if are the employees given an opportunity to buy a bronze, gold, silver and gold plan for

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their family? We are looking at like one of the, the quotes or plans. That's like for one vendor, it's two different plans. So because they can, you know, control how much they're

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spending in the past, there's been other they come in and they offer the employees other services, like I forget all of them and stuff, but they've got

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like usually 7 or 10 items that the employee can pick up their selves outside the process. Usually a different place is asking about that long term disability going way back. And, and we're going to one of the

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things we have to see is what is that now? But that was to keep up with the others, because this is not uncommon in the other cities in Pinellas County. I know police and fire.

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Some used to yell, especially fire districts, because the fire districts were paying 100% of family, all kind of coverage, and we never came close to there. But this is common in

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the other cities. And back in the days where we didn't have the salaries and I know the salaries that we've got the salaries up, but that was how we tried. We tried to offer a better benefit because we

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couldn't offer the price. But but this is not uncommon. And, but one of the things we have to see, we address the wages last year and yes, you did. And

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so now maybe we need to address the increase. Well, all the city has gone through it, but a lot of cities in the same boat that supplement anywhere from 30 to 100% of all those that

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spouse. I think there's three categories spouse, children and family, which covers both spouse and children. And all the city is going to be wrestling with that, that they can't. That benefit is going to

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have to, you know, you know, go down. So I think every one of them is looking at, I don't know where they are now because I've kind of been out of it. What percentages of other cities and how much the

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supplementation is of it. But that's been going on for 30 years, you know, and, and the employees are all going to be mad at me for even bringing this up. But at the same time,

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I was also looking at individuals. There's two heavy equipment operators as an example. And their difference

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in salary is $8,000. And I would assume that one is making $8,000 more than the other because the the other one, the lower one, hasn't been there as long or doesn't have as much

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experience. Whatever the reason is, it's I'm sure it's justified why he's making $8,000 less. But that one that's making less is getting.

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20 some thousand dollars worth of health benefits. And the one that's making more is only getting $13,000 worth of health benefits. So if you look all

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the way on the end at their total income, the one that's making less is making $8,000 more than the other one. So it's like, how do we justify

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that to the person who's making more that now this guy that's making less than him is actually getting more, not making more, but he's getting more. We're getting more gross,

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but he's paying more. So and that happens quite a bit. You know, once I saw that one, I'm saying, well, wait, let me look some more. And there's several people I think Michelle is a victim of that. That's always

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been the balance that city struggle. When they have a thing, they supplement extra coverage. And you know, there's two sides of the argument. But but it's definitely true. If somebody if you add up pay and

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benefits at the end, there is if you have a family, you get an advantage. I think in the older days, they want to encourage and have and have that kind of stuff and kind of just went tradition along and

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stuff. But that's all the question you asked. Why is it that's been a question, a weighing question they've weighed back for for years and years? I just want it on the record that we need to fix. We

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need to fix it. Yeah, we're definitely we're it was part of the conversation on Friday. Okay, I'll shut up now. I'm

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sorry. No. Anything further? Okay. So it looks like you've kind of got the budget at least draft at least mostly balanced, I think. Right. General fund.

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Yeah, general, like I said before, we're still we still have ins and outs that we're we're working on. So. Okay. And your focus next is on the individual funds. And as there,

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what else kind of high level work are you looking to do on the budget draft besides just the individual? So just as you know, over the next few weeks, over the rest of the summer,

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things come up, right? There's always some random emergency project or so just keeping up with those changes. Yeah, keeping up with the stuff

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that's going to come out of the state with the property tax reform and really where we're going to be focusing, a lot of our energy is planning and

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prepping for. If that property, if that happens, if it passes the next the next step. But what we're going to be doing for this budget now, and we waited to have the, the first

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budget hearing with the commission and then have this meeting with you. Yeah. So the plan was tomorrow we start and as she works on the individual

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department, department by department individual, we're going to look at them and go back to the well before our next August 4th meeting with the commission. And we're going

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back and making another round of of cuts for several reasons. First of all, to cut to get down. You know, we're going to

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be looking to at least fund 3% Cola part, as most of the other cities are doing one more time. As I told you last time, the merit thing, we're going to have to freeze. I mean, that we

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freeze the second half, we're going to freeze. But at least what did you call it, a 3%. What? What did you say? Cola cost of living. Okay. Okay. So we went to a lot of we always used to have just a one pay

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raise thing, but we changed with the pay survey and stuff to like a lot of other cities have a Cola and, and on your anniversary, somebody asked me in a staff member in here asked

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a very good question. Well, the marriage is good and stuff. Why are you doing not doing the merit instead of the cola. Because the cola we give to them the salary now the the

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merit goes on your anniversary date. So obviously we do it. We get the November that thing passes. We're going to need that money back. It's easier to give everybody the amount

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before everything gets freezes, then freezes in January. And then if your anniversary date fell on in October, November, you got your you got your merit. Now, we could always go in and

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take it away, but you don't want to go in and take anything away if we go in the freeze. So what we're trying to get at least that cola which almost every other city I know in Pinellas County are at least

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going to give 3%, whatever they call it, whether it's a cold or what they're going to try to at least give what they're thinking is maybe one last 3% for a while with that thing passes, that's going to be it.

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So it's kind of a the other cities are doing. We need to try to do it if we can. So. But we're also going to go back in and try to get everything else

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because everybody knows in November, again, we'll be convening these meetings and then we need to plan, okay, where are we going to be? Start preparing for the $3.4 million

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that has to come out. Yeah, but but but what we're doing between now and August 4th, after hearing the input here is we're going to go back through again and they're going to tighten or, for instance, look

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at me and say, listen, your budget is blank. We need another 510. We need another 5%. We'll give you an opportunity. And if you don't get there,

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then we're going to do it for you. It's going to probably come out, but we'll give you first dibs to to do it before me and Ashley. Take our hatchet and do it. So we'll, we'll

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probably go back in and try to take most other stuff out. And I don't know how much that's going to be before we get to the fourth and then the fourth at the meeting, you'll watch or

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you'll see and we'll send to you ahead of time. You'll see what's, you know, again, we'll be copying everything with the the rest of your questions you asked, the whole board is going to be copied with, if we do

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other adjustments to the budget before we go before the Commission again on the fourth, we'll send those to you and try to get it a better place where we're close to, where we want

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to be at at the budget by August 4th. So that's what we're going to be doing tomorrow after this meeting, go back into this thing and say, where is from what you brought up? And some commission brought

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up some ideas of some things and just look what the priorities and what, you know, we can we can make do without.

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Okay. All right. That sounds good. And. The for November, it's like a, I guess we don't know what information you like. You said you're waiting to hear more information from the state,

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but there's not like they didn't say, oh, we're going to give you this on this date. They didn't do anything like that. The only thing that's pending right now that's coming up is. So there's like these

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lawsuits of how the the ballot language is written. And I think they're combining the lawsuits and we should know more the first week or two in

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August. Okay. That's really the only thing they're. But as far as I know, it's it's definitely going in November. So when would you actually start that?

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Like if so, August were doing the adjustments to this budget. When are you going to start kind of looking at, okay, this thing is going to I believe that like my understanding is we're, we're going to cut as

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much as we can just to kind of build up our reserves. Okay. And then we'll have a contingency plan, secondary

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plan that if it passes in November, we say, okay, like kind of like what I talked about earlier, like putting through a budget resolution. Like these are all the cuts, but that is a big conversation

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that we'll have to have with commission and of course. Yeah, yeah. So for instance, we may have a position frozen. Yeah. It's still going to be in the budget. It'll still have the dollar amount as frozen come

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November. It's it passes then that then it becomes a permanent for the year frozen position. That money that we have budgeted, however we do it technically, what we call it, I

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call it a reserve, goes into reserves to build up a bunch of money to ease the ease the efforts of when we go to do it ease, we have to go to layoffs.

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We'll maybe have more time, maybe six months for people to get jobs. Or do you know, we if we've got that money in reserve, we can last a little longer to. The inevitable comes when we do

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have to either lose positions, lose thing permanently and stuff. So and that's why I talk about the new exercise, November. Then we'll start identifying those things in the budget that the money's going

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to the big fund to get us to the 3.4 million cut to help us as much money we can build up in there. Yeah, hopefully the 3.4 million maybe goes down to to 1.6 million, something like

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that. Okay. And then we'll be fine until we have to find the next 2 million when it goes to 5 million. But hopefully the build up this money that we kept in the budget, but we know November killed it, the lesser

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of the lesser of cuts we have to make. Okay to get there, ease off again. We were lucky in 2008 when it crashed and stuff. We had been saving for a year and a half before that for

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this, and we had a bunch of money built up and we made it through without serious cuts in services. And there we don't have that luxury this time. So that's why we we're going to have to go to, to this mess.

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And at least we have some time again, if you got to start laying off, at least we have plenty of time to let people know and help them get other jobs or give them enough is not, you know, hey, you got two

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weeks, right? This past November. You got two weeks to go get a job. We'll have we'll have time to ease and phase everything in if if it comes through. And then again, some of the other stuff we're going

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to just have to do without, you know, even stuff we think is essential in here. Now, some of those are just we're just have to make do okay without. So in summary, it's like, let's just

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be as conservative as we can with this budget to give us some, some room, some kind of runway to deal with kind of what's coming down and give some time to say that we're lucky to even be in that

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position. I mean, I think kudos to previous staff for having us in such a good position. I mean, we could have been a little bit better this year, but we're making up ground. But yes, I

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think that Tarpon has done a really good job keeping those reserves up and not having a shortfall every year. That's that's good. And one thing everybody has to remember, if

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it doesn't pass in November, we can't just be, oh, we're good because they're going to come back with something next November. So we we begin our new anticipation of we're still

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going to have to be frugal and be thinking. Hopefully it'll be a version where it's supplies, states, funds. You know, I was looking at a thing of the sales tax and I didn't realize how

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little the sales tax goes back to cities. A ton of it goes to finance all the state government. Some of it goes to the county, and then maybe a little chunk of 15% of sales because they raised sales tax. Well, what's going to do for us

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by the time the state and the county gets cities get 15%. So maybe if they do it next year, do it right. And there's a for some of the money from somewhere, sales tax, somewhere, you know, instead of 15%, maybe

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the cities get 30, 35%, you know, state government, you cut, you cut your money and give it to the cities to finance what you're taking on. Because we don't get much of sales tax. We

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do almost all of our stuff for property tax. Right? Right. That's what they're touching. But they're not giving you a mechanism to make it up. So but but it's not a spend free. We're good. We're set to go

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with everything in November. We're going to have to realize and prepare for okay, what's coming next. And hopefully what next again is going to be some good reform with some fundings

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where you don't you find money from another source and make it up to the city and the services that, you know, people aren't going to realize they lose until they actually loses. People are using. Yeah, yeah.

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They yeah. It's white people. Yeah. Like living here. So it'd be great to maintain what we can. Yeah. Go ahead, go ahead. I'm sorry. I have some more

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questions. The merit pay, the. We had approved that last budget year. So did that start like in October. So everybody

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is going to get it right from October. Yes. It's not cutting off till October September 30th. So everybody got theirs because you can't cut it off now and

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let the last three months of people. Right. Okay. And then when when we vote in November, that's going to be for this tax

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bill coming. The end of the year will go into effect for January 1st. So yes. So when you get your bill in. November,

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I got to go from fiscal year to tax year. I believe it would be on your next bill because then

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we would it impacts our fiscal year 28. So actually. We won't feel the tax cut until next,

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not this October, but next October. So. Or is it right away? That's what I remember too from the chart you did last time. Yeah. It won't like it's not going to take. Yeah it's

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going to happen. It's going to it's going to going to hit us next October. It's really it's really going to hit us in October. That's why you have time to instead of two weeks, maybe we've got 4 to 6 months

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of people to, to, to get. Okay, we don't have to go immediately. It doesn't hit us. That's what I thought at first. But then were you we're working on a budget, anticipating a cut, but

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the cut isn't going to actually happen until next October, which is the end of the. I mean, this whole budget year is not affected. Yeah. So we still have to get through all 26. We

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got a couple more months of 26 and we have all. 27, which is what we're working on now. But without any cuts, we are. We're trying to have a really lean

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budget because we're trying to build up those reserves to go into fiscal year 28, which is when it'll hit the first cut

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happens, and then 29, the second happens. Okay, clear. The I'm sorry, the public is

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very confused, and I don't know who saw my post that I put up about trying to explain that. No, your property taxes have

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not gone up 50%. They have not because of Save Our Home. I've been in my house for 2020. It'll be 26 years and I'm actually paying less than what

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I was paying 26 years ago. Now it went, it went down, it went up, it went down. You know what I mean? Over the 26 years. But it can only go up so much

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percent because of Save our Home. So there's nobody in the, in the city that their house

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was worth 200,000 and now it's worth 600,000. And they're paying taxes on 600,000 instead of there's there's no way. Yes,

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I bought my house for 145. And and the valuation now is 500. But because of the save our home, I'm not paying taxes on

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600, $500,000. I'm paying, you know, adjusted a little bit every year. But so these are the people that are have been in the same house or they moved. Yeah. No. So the people that

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are buying houses are screwed. Yes. Or I don't want that on record. Because yes, the house next door sold for $500,000.

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And so yes, they're going to pay taxes on $500,000 where I have the same exact house. And I'm not because I've been there for so long and people are, are

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just, they're, they're confused because they're not paying 50%. They want to know why the city, I mean, the city did get extra money because of the home

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values, but it's not people like me. It's people buying new homes. I also wonder if they're just looking at their, you know, mortgage statement and their escrows increasing, which is

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taxes and insurance and God knows what else. So. Right. I'm not sure. So I was trying to explain all that on Facebook and I got comments back,

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suggestions that I promised I would bring to the budget. And these are not mine. Here's a good one. The flock cameras,

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there's a whole organization or a group organizing. She knows she's going to get me going with those those flock cameras, you know, and that came up, I think, at the meeting, the

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other the Board of Commissioners meeting, I think that came up, if I'm not mistaken. They read, they read Facebook and that nonsense. They don't. Okay. That's where that's where that came up from them. There's they're seeing

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all these people acting like they're tarpon people and they're right. And they're from whatever the advocacy groups that do these things. But, you know, they're wanting to know, how much did that cost us and

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how much do we pay? And I'm not responding. I'm just saying I will share these questions with, I think you found or somebody found. And I think that's all it is. But we're looking we

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have a maintenance contract that was in my. That's about there's no new ones in the budget. There's new no nothing else going on. And they have an issue with privacy. They want

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they want to be. But you know what? I live in a smart home and Google knows more about me than anybody I saw. You said that more about me than I know about me. I saw you said that. And with cell phones and all

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this stuff and and he camera. So here's what these logical and I'm not going to go into it because I'll go 50 million years on this thing and you know, I don't care. They can yell all they want. If it saves

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one child that gets kidnaped, you got a tag and you can put that tag in anywhere and get that car or that kidnaped person from Daytona Beach that those I mean, you can just give so many instances. You know,

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and I did look up my tag and I've never been searched. No, it's not about that. But that's what they bring. But but I go past one every day several times. But again, you know, the

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things on Facebook and thing blows up and go. But if you look at what percentage, if it is just 50, what percentage of that is our whole budget? You know, how minuscule and minuscule that is and stuff.

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And, and, and then they said that maybe we need to look at revenues from hotels and bed. And, you know, these Airbnbs, are we collecting any money

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from those people for doing that? They're making money. And so, yeah, they don't have a homestead on their home. But you got to remember, unfortunately, the ones who

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regulate that and say where the money goes to are not local. But we have regulations about where they can be. Yeah. But if you start, we cities can't

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issue taxes or that sort of thing. That's the thing. And guess, guess who from state, county or local? Guess where that money goes to. Okay. And

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then. People were questioning how many administrators have been added since Covid. And that's going back to. Yeah. And

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they can be assured in their taxes went up 50%. Yeah. All new. I mean, the new positions that were put in the budget last year and anyone's at all

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positions, or they can be assured all positions are being looked at to either go by attrition or maybe even cut and reorganize and stuff. So any

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position that's been put in, definitely in the last last year, I don't know how many it was 6 or 8. I, you know, again, I wasn't around for last budget, but those and any other I mean,

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we're looking again when you're talking about maybe 4050, you're looking at all those new ones and yeah, they're nice. If you want to lay more pipe, you need more workers. But we're

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just going to be able to lay the pipe of what our money lets us lay the pipe. So they're they're all being concerned about administration, you know, is it too heavy at the top? Yeah. Well, you see the first

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one frozen was the assistant city manager position. So I'm not getting any help. So so yes, I'm conscious of those positions to the shovel in the ground. People sometimes are

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more important than us eggheads up in the administration. So no offense to y'all. And then the last thing was they wanted to justify us. Little Tarpon

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Springs needing a Swat team and a Swat truck. And how often is that used? And so those are just comments. I don't, you know, I don't need answers. And again, but but all equipment's

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being looked at and stuff and it's always seemed frivolous until the incident happens. And, and, you know, back in the day when it was got school shootings at school and trying

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to get up to it, but people forgot that those vehicles ■in hurricanes and storms and to get over debris and stuff that's used too. But, but again, all of that has to be looked at.

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And yeah, it's nice. And if something happens out of the realm of the years, it's nice to have it because you don't have to beg around like everybody in the county is going to be beg for terrain vehicle to save people who get

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through debris. And you're begging everybody else in the county who needs those vehicles? You got one of your own. You don't need anybody else in doing it. But that still doesn't mean with what's going on now that we'll have to

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evaluate those type of vehicles and everything. And yeah, it's nice. We're not dependent on anybody else, but we may just be at a time where we can't afford them and may have to be be cut, no matter the value or

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not the value. And those were not my question. No, but that's all people need to know that that's all a table. There's no there's no I like a big tank like thing to just look at and have out there and stuff. Know

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that that has to be looked at in this, you know, and it's just they, they're not aware of these things because, you know, somebody had also said, we've got a brand new. Ambulance for

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the fire department. And I thought we use Sunstar or whoever it is. And I said that ambulance was totally free to us from the county. That's why

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if these people would use Connect Tarpon Springs in the budget that I have open is going to be open all through the budget to ask those questions. If they would ask questions instead of running

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their non knowledgeable mouths on things about what they don't know, if they'd ask now, if they don't like the answer to the question, then go on social media and blast it. And that doesn't make any sense. But

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these people go on there and have no, you know, all the people, oh man, Mark's back. And he cut those trees that Craig Park and they weren't dead and stuff. And then the guy goes, I looked when they

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cut it and the thing was rotten to the core and I was going to fall on somebody. Okay, all y'all run your mouth. You knew everything about trees on Facebook, but nobody. Because anybody who would have sent in to connect Tarpon or City help,

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we just sent them the arborist report and they had the pictures of the hollow, and it's going to fall on somebody. And, you know, the one person says, oh, we should have a media should have a town hall

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meeting before you cut a tree. You're not. If once you get us something from the city that something's a safety hazard, it comes on right away. We're not going to wait for a limb to fall on somebody's head and hurt them and stuff. But again,

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we have still got open to everybody that's watching this. On Connect Tarpon, you can ask any question, you can ask 50 questions on there about the budget and everything to get your answer with. We're also

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hopefully going to get up next week. I'm hoping for and we're going to add to it a big site on information on the property tax. And we're putting both on.

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We'll put the governor or anybody who supports. We've got some of their articles up there. We've got some of the ones against. Because we cannot remember, we cannot take a position and we could have serious consequences. We take

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The position. We're just throwing all the articles up and encouraging people to find more. Here are some out there both ways. Here are some presentations. Here is all the information, some things about

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explaining the tax thing and you're really not doing. We're going to throw all that on a website and put it the word out to the public to go on there. And then from the time we put

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it up in today, questions like that, it does not need to be on Tarpon community page. It needs to go to connect Tarpon, get your answer. And then if you want to have your 15 minutes of

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fame on a, on a local website, go on there and say whatever you want, but at least you'll have the information and then you can talk without knowledge. We we're working. Hopefully we're going to try to get it

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out to everybody. I'm just being careful to see if I get it out. I'm not violating anything by doing something. But again, it's going to be a neutral site and and we're going to add to it as things

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come out like education. And again, questions if people will send questions to connect tarpon. And we think they're answers that everybody needs to hear like yours that everybody needs to hear, then we're going

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to put that up there so they can help us, let us know what they're not understanding, so we can put the information out there for them to get, hopefully, and you'll get it right as soon as they get ready

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to go up and we start to advertise and we're sending it to the attorney because the attorney has to look at it and make sure we're not putting anything up there that violates the restrictions that we have

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as a city for the law. And and then it's going to go out. And then, of course, everything we add to it will it goes to the attorney first, because we don't want to run into any problems, and we're just going

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to try to flood it with information out there that we've got, encourage people to go find other information. And when you make that vote, just be knowledgeable which way

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you're going and do what you think is the right thing. I would encourage the Florida League of Cities, their website, they have a whole bunch of property tax stuff up right now.

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It's very informative. They just had a webinar on Monday. They recorded it. You can watch it on there. They talk about some of the misconceptions. Originally the language of the

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bill was you can't cut public safety, police, fire. Well, that's not the case anymore. You can you know, if you need to reduce it because some some towns were close. Our public

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safety is almost as much as property taxes. So that's a misconception too. That and I'm not really talking about Tarpon Springs per se, but state wide

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people are thinking, oh well, public safety is safe. Well, not not anymore under the how they changed it. So it's there's a lot of good information for every time I

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try to explain something on Facebook because I have a little following. You do. I gotta check it out. I'm called. I'm one of her followers,

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conspiracy theorist and, and, you know, because I'm trying to teach people. But if I had a link to something like that, I

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could not only defend voting no, I could also say, well, go look at it yourself. And instead of them just thinking, I'm imagining these things and if you don't see it, send it to

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connect tarpon, your concern and your questions so they can answer you and maybe post it and answer everybody else, that's the proper way. Good citizens do things. Yeah. Okay.

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Good. So I think we covered agenda item number two with the. That wishes review discussion department budgets. Q and A, I think we kind of covered Q and

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A under one. So. And he. Yeah. Do you have any or do you not know. Okay, cool. So last year so we covered agenda item one and 2 in 1. So we'll move on to

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number three which is update on pending changes for August 4th. So we kind of covered that too. We covered that. Let them know what we're doing from this meeting. So and probably in

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that and stuff is when does when does this board want him. Oh yeah. August 4th. That's what that's what August 4th is the commissions. Right. So and that's when you're looking to have remind me. So you're

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you're going you're we're being conservative. You're going through the the individual funds, you've moved past the general fund. And then the target is August 4th for having

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all that. And we'll get more input from the commission on August 4th. So I'd imagine either the Thursday after the next would be a good. After all that's out there, that would be a good time to come back to to

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you, whether it's that next week or if you want to wait another week, I thought, we're running out of time. As we get to the. We're running out of time. So it would either be the the Thursday after the Tuesday

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or maybe at latest, the Thursday after. We need to come back here to kind of finalize all the thoughts of this board from what they've heard, what they've seen from the what we provided for the Commission on

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the fourth. And then, you know, take our. When do you guys. Sorry, I'm thinking out loud. When do you guys present or do you. We don't have any recommendation. We we can take

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it, but I, I don't think that we haven't we haven't voted on any recommendations this year. And so if you were to do recommendation, does that go with the second workshop? No,

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it'll usually go with the probably the commission meeting before the citizens vote. So it'd probably be that that last Tuesday. And so it's separate

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than the workshop or workshop. Usually they present to the board and stuff. Recommendations in the past has been on millage rate. And I

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think I think the the reserve balance policy trying to keep that high. I think that those are kind of a summary of. So they can really come in. I mean, you know, it can be at a

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meeting we just agenda it their, you know, their recommendations to the board. So sorry. I just wasn't sure. I mean, depending on where we have it, there'd be at least one meeting or the, you know, the second meeting of,

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of August, they could present all everything to the board. Yeah. And maybe that's a question. Do you think I mean beyond the discussions we have I know you said people are watching is would any of this

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sort of be helpful to distill into a concrete recommendation or. I don't see it. I'm just checking if you yeah, I don't I don't think so either. I say

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the millage wasn't really much in usual days we talked, but it was pretty much decided by all the cities real early that you can't ask the people not to vote on the property tax thing

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if you're going to throw a millage. So when people say at the beginning of things, well, we got to go up a mill. I mean, we got to go up large amount of money. And then the, the ones

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who have thought a little more about it are the people that have been around a long time. Wait a second. So you're going to tell the people not to vote for that in November, and you're going to go to your

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budget. That goes October 1st and raise the millage a mill and add all that money to them. Then voters are going to say, we're, you just threw this on us. We got to get some of that money back. So it was pretty

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universal way from the start that that that we need to keep the millage where it is now. All bets are off for next October and, and the millage rate and stuff, but it would

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not be sending a good, good message to the taxpayers out there to do big millage increases before that vote was done that aren't reversed. So so the millage rate, your

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whatever, half a mill mill, you raise it and your bill goes up. So that's why in other times it's more of a discussion for budget advisory and due to the commission. But, you know,

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nobody else was doing it. So what I presented and that the the no raise, that's pretty much consistent of the whole county. So that in past years it was an issue this year really wasn't an issue even to

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give a recommendation on, because everybody kind of decided before that. Okay, so for the next meeting, maybe we put a, we can do it on the 13th

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if you're both available. Yeah. All right. So let's do the 13th. Okay. Okay. Just so you know, it's also code enforcement, okay, at the same time, at the same time. So they can only

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film one meeting. Oh, so maybe we shouldn't do it then if you want it filmed. I mean, it's probably best to. I guess we

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could do the sixth then, because we don't want to get too far down the road. Right. So then a couple days after you were. Yeah. That's. Yeah. That's good. We'll have we'll

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be able to talk about this for you. Okay. We'll be able to talk about the fourth that if we have issues to discuss and, and then issue comes up there where you need to make a recommendation on as a board.

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Okay. There you go. Yeah, that makes sense. Do you want to keep the 20th. Because that would be our regular as well open. Or do you want to do it

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in lieu of, I think the sixth can be in lieu of. But then we can always decide if something happens. Yeah. Okay. Let's do it in lieu of. And then if we're like, no, we got more business to cover and we can

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come back. Okay. So we do the six and then a placeholder on six. Yeah. Right. Okay. Sounds good. Okay, so we got the next meeting set for August 6th at

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two. I think we've covered our points, so I'll just ask the board if you have anything else before I go on to public comments. Anything else? I do not know. I just did the

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department heads see my questions or is it just some of them? That's why some of the ones where we said we'd ask you, they're going to be doing the answer that we're going to be

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sending, and will be copying all of you on that. So. Okay. Thank you. So they're probably some of them are preparing that answer for their okay. I'm sorry guys. Okay. Public

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comments. All right. No public comments. Board and staff comments. All right. No comments. Schedule. Next meeting. Future agenda items.

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We covered that August 6th at two. Any future agenda items beyond just covering the budget? I think that's the main one. I don't have any additional agenda. And again, any questions that come up as

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you're looking at the budget, send it, email it to us and we'll get the answers to everybody. Okay. With that?

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I'll close the meeting at 301.

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Thank you guys. I feel so bad.