##VIDEO ID:Dvr62HfS6wA## But Mr. Jump, are you ready? Yes, sir. I now call to order the regular session. Meeting of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs on Tuesday, September 3rd, 2024 at 6 p.m. Miss Jacobs roll call, please. Vice Mayor Julius here. Commissioner Eisner here. Commissioner Koulianos here. Commissioner DiDonato here. Hello, everyone. Let's please stand for tonight's invocation. And then right after the Pledge of Allegiance. Dear Lord, please watch over this city, this commission. This commission, city staff, and that we make all the decisions that are in the best interest of Tarpon Springs. Please keep this board focused, United on one common cause to do good by Tarpon Springs. Thank you all out there. Who are here today and at home viewing the meeting tonight. And together we will move forward to make Tarpon Springs a beautiful place. We can all work together to achieve that. Thank you Lord. Amen. I believe Jesus is the father of the United States and. It is. Item one on tonight's agenda is a special resolution. And that is resolution 2024-36, ratification of election results. City attorney, can you please read the title? Of. The resolution 20 2436 a resolution of the board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, ratifying and confirming the results of the Special Municipal election held on. Held in conjunction with Pinellas County. Primary election on August 20th, 2024 and providing for an effective date thereof. Are there any public comments on this item? Mr. jumper, are there any zoom comments? I would like to make a public comment on this item. Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Hearing none, the chair will entertain a motion to approve resolution 2024-36. Ratification of election result. So. Moved. Second. There are no further comments. Roll call please. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner. Yes Commissioner. Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Yes. Yes Item two on tonight's agenda is the oath of office for Commissioner Frank DiDonato and City Clerk Miss Jacobs will be doing the presentation. And also, if I could have the family of Commissioner DiDonato come forward as well. If you could raise your right hand and repeat after me. I, I say your name. Frank Donato. Do you solemnly swear or affirm? You solemnly swear and confirm that I will support that. I will support, protect and uphold, protect and uphold the Constitution. The Constitution of the United States. Of the United States and of the State of Florida. And the state of Florida. And the Charter and laws. And the Charter and Laws of the City of Tarpon Springs. Of the City of Tarpon Springs. That I am duly qualified. I'm duly qualified to hold the office. To hold the office of Commissioner. Seat two and of Commissioner seat two. That I will faithfully perform. That I will faithfully perform the duties of that office. The duties of that office which I am now about to enter, which I am now about to enter. Thank you. I'll just make it quick. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Happy to serve you good. Well, here I am presenting the key to the city, to Commissioner Frank DiDonato. And I was 11 years old when Frank was elected as mayor. And here I am at 37, coming back and giving him the keys to the city. So it's amazing how things can come full circle and thank you so much, sir. Appreciate it. Thank you. Are there any public comments o, presentation to Commissioner DiDonato? Good evening. Anita. Pros 901 Bay Shore Drive. When I served with Frank years ago, our city was very progressive. We did so many good things in Tarpon Springs to make it what it is today. And I'm very excited and happy that he's on the board and that all of you on the board, and may we all move forward in a progressive way to make Tarpon Springs shine again, bring back friendships, harmony and happiness in our community. Thank you, Commissioner DiNardo. It is an honor to have you on the board as our Commissioner. Thank you. I guess. Frank and congratulations. And thank you for running for this commission seat. You are a good man who is sensible, rational, respected, and of high integrity, and who cares for the city of Tarpon Springs. I remember in the 90s, when you. When we. When you were the mayor and you and the commission met my husband, Jim Archer, being one of them, being on them at times. You would have your differences with the commission, not agreeing on a subject, but after the meeting was over and all left, it was good. Y'all left on good terms at the end of the meeting when you had comments, you would have the commissioners speak first, then you would take some time from what they said, adding your own comments and the meeting would always end on a high note. It's very good. Again thank you, Frank, and congratulations. Thank you Becky. Are there any other public public comments? Mr. Jump? Are there any zoom comments? If anyone online would like to make a public comment, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Go ahead, Mr. Hrabowski. Chris Hrabowski, 1602 Gulf Beach Boulevard, Tarpon Springs, 34689. I apologize for being tardy, once again, congratulations, Frank. Making a habit of that. I would like to say that in the next election, I hope that we don't have any more of this ugliness. And this hatred that, people have had to endure. You know, I was asked to do negative campaigning and I refused. And there are many things I could have said, but I refused. And unfortunately, you listened to those people that are spouting hate, and you put some of that out there, and I, I know you wouldn't have said those things. Somebody probably wrote that for you, but you endorsed it, and then you repeated it. Commissioner Koulianos, I don't understand i. And then we run the run the mayor out on this hatred. Costa Vatikiotis you couldn't put up with it. We've had way too much of this here. And there's another election coming up. Let's not continue down this road of hate. It's not productive. It's only bringing damage to our city. And it's unnecessary. And most of it untrue. So what's the point? I mean, when people ask me to do that, I said no, I gotta live with myself. How are you going to do that? I mean, you not only got to live in this town, but you got to live with yourself. It's one thing, you know, to have a difference of opinion. It's another thing entirely to try to cut a man down and destroy them. Now, if you're pointing out corruption and stuff like that, that's good. You want to do that, you want to come up here and try to do things right by the city, but just this hatred has to stop. So please don't continue down that road. Thank you. Are there any commission comments? Okay Congratulations, Frank. You know, I was sitting we had that opening on the commission, and I was having, breakfast with Mike Koskotas, and he was asking, hey, what's going on in the commission? I said, well, we got an opening, and, he said, what about Frank DiDonato? And I was like, oh, he won't come back and do this. And I thought that would be amazing to have Frank DiDonato to have a two time mayor up here with us, to help us steady the ship. And, I guess the rest was history. So I'm glad that I had that breakfast with him. And I'm glad he brought your name up. And I'm glad you're sitting here with us. Thank you. Congratulations Moisturizer. Frank, I would think I was the first person to shake your hand after we got that election results. I'm pleased to work with you. I only have good things to say about you. And I'm pleased to work with you. And I think you'll be an asset to keeping this board calm. So I thank you for your hard work. I know it was a very emotional day for you that day, it was a long day. And hopefully we can make these shorter days when we have our meetings, because I know you're not in favor of them, so thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you. Yes, Frank, I just want to say thank you for running again, it's nice to see a familiar face, too. And I do also want to thank Mr. Hrabowski. It's not easy to run for office here in Tarpon Springs. It takes a lot of grit, got to be courageous to run for seats in office. So I do appreciate him trying. And, you know, it's a good thing to see, competitive elections. So Thank you. On item three, which is the charter review Commission presentation, we have Doctor Kerry Rue, chair of the Charter Revision Committee, and she will be up presenting any charter amendments. You want me to do that from here? Wherever you like, ma'am? It has more space. Sure. Well, first, thank you very much for having me here tonight, I'm going to, basically walk you through the draft ordinance that's been developed by the Charter Revision Commission, I want to thank this board for putting a very strong charter revision commission together, so, you know who was on it, Mike. Kudos, Jim. Koulianos, Merle seaman. Joan Jennings, Tina Bucuvalas. I should say doctor Bucuvalas. John Trapani, as well as, myself and, showing the commitment that these individuals have for their city, their I, the four of the seven of us are even here tonight. I also will say that we had tremendous support from Attorney Salzman as well as Michelle and Irene from the city staff. We had all of you came to talk to us. We really appreciated that, I think almost everybody here did, except for our attorney who, you know, have anything to weigh in on that? So, Mr. Saltzman advised me, as opposed to just handing you a sheaf of papers just to do a very brief walkthrough of the things we discussed and the decisions we made, and I will say this, following up with this, we have a summary of recommendations to make. And these came from comments that were made by you all by our review by the public that came to speak by city staff, that we thought deserved attention but didn't necessarily need to be in charter because it could be done by direction of the board or through ordinance. So those will come later. The attorney has not had a chance to put those together yet, so part two is in the future. Okay. So if you have your document in front of you, I will skip the whereases and go to page four. Irene said that this was in the package. So and I will start with a summary that, it can be a little confusing because the draft ordinance uses sections, the term section with a number to delineate the parts of the ordinance. The the charter does the same thing. So for example, on page four, you see section one and section two that are in non bolded type. Those are actually ordinance paragraphs. And then following section two you have section three. Limitation of powers. And that bold indicates that it is an ordinance paragraph with the changes then noted within. So We did three things. In some cases we deleted content. In some cases we added content, in some cases we changed content. So the deletions are shown by a strikethrough and where something's been changed or added, it's underlined. There are a number of Scrivener error errors that have been corrected in here. And I'll just I'm not even going to really talk about those. We'll just skip that because what is Scrivener correction is it makes something it either corrects language or it makes it more readable, but it does not change the substance of the paragraph. All right. So going on to page five, the first update was to allow drainage and spoilage sites to be one of the reasons eminent domain can be used. That's in paragraph B at the top of page five, the next change is on paragraph H, which sets the limit for, the Board of Commissioners in terms of what their purchase, maximum limit can be without going for referendum, this has been at the last two charters, a source of a lot of conversation. We have suggested that we change this from 350,000 to 500,000. And there's an important second change with that, at the time, that this is, this is made and goes to reference, referendum. We want to have the funding source for the funds used to purchase property identified. So those are the two changes in section H, section I was added. To address the fact that property shouldn't be sold, swapped or, or traded if it's of a value more than whatever the maximum value that the city can purchase property for. So if it's over that that maximum, it has to go for referendum. You just can't just because the city owns a piece of property, you can't swap it out with for another one. All right, going to the bottom of the page on section eight, there's a small change which is a Scrivener update on page six. The bottom half of that page from paragraph H through paragraph L, this represents a couple of things I'm not going to identify them individually. I'm going to talk to them as an overall picture. We recognized in the existing charter. It was very cumbersome with all the dates for updating the plans, etc, because at the last Charter Revision Commissio, these things were just being put into place and those dates are important now they're in place now they regularly get updated so that language needed to change. So that was the majority of it, to align the dates and the reviews of our city plan. The second significant part was that we feel that the sustainability plan is important and should have equal footing with the, comprehensive plan and the strategic plan. So that has been added, in terms of what we would like to see put in the charter, going to page seven, these are two Scrivener errors that are being corrected. Page eight. The first update is a Scrivener error. If you get down to section 11 towards the bottom which is terms of office qualifications and date of annual election. There's two parts here. The first one is to change the seven day qualification period to 30 days, and the second is to notify the public of open seats along with, I should say, and indicating who holds a seat and whether or not they're eligible for reelection. We feel that this is important to, To motivate more engagement with our citizens and our election process and our running for office process. All right. Going to page nine. All of these on this page are Scrivener errors that are being corrected. Page ten. The top of the page there's a paragraph in here, to remove a special the special exceptions inclusions and the. So this represents more how business is done today. Going to page 11. Am I going too fast for you. No, no okay. Good it's a continuation of that same section on oh, I'm sorry, this is on the internal auditor and. After an afternoon of discussion, and with recommendations from this, attorney Salzman, we have suggested that the city attorney be added to the review process of the, independent audit to review before it's provided to the Board of Commissioners. Okay. Further down the page, under city manager, acting city manager, paragraph Q we're adding as one of the duties, prioritizing future capital improvement programs. And the last thing on this page is the addition of a city assistant city manager, the city we feel is large enough to have an assistant city manager, which allows the city manager to pursue longer range vision and longer range projects. The next page is on residency, and this got a lot of discussion, but we have recommending is we've identified for city staff that we believe should reside within the city defined by a specific area, which is the Pasco County line to the north. Klosterman Road to the south, to the west is the water, and to the east is East Lake Road. Those four individuals are the city manager, the assistant city manager, the fire chief and the police chief. We have put an exception in there such that if we have an established city employees who are promoted to one of those positions but do not meet the residency requirements, they don't have to unless they change their residence, in which point they're expected then to move within those boundaries. The second change we've identified is to have all department heads and directors who are not listed above, require them to live within ten miles of the Tarpon Springs city Hall and again, if they if you have an established city employee that is promoted into one of those positions that does not require them to move into the city unless they change their residence, in which point then they would need to, to meet the residency requirement. The bottom of the page, we have a change to increase the amount that the city manager is authorized to expend. Without consent of the board of commissioners, we are recommending that that could increase from 25 to $50,000. Going to page 13, the first thing we are suggesting is to delete the requirement for monthly financial statements to be made available in the office of City Clerk and Collector and made available the quarterlies at the library. These this information is all available online. You can get it from the library via their their terminals, etc. we just feel that with technology it's burdensome to be putting a requirement to have paper copies around, we should leverage the tech the next change is, and actually the rest of the changes on this page have to do with the Sidewalk Improvement Fund, which is always, a popular section to discuss, the first sentence in the charter were recommending being removed. It was important last time to have that sidewalk improvement fund named such because before this, the last charter, it was called the Street and Sidewalk Improvement Investment Fund. Since it's been renamed now, we don't need that sentence further down. We had a lot of discussion and we made a decision to recommend increasing the withdrawal limits from $100,000 a year to $300,000 a year. We are still requiring a match of 100,000 to withdraw funds, but that means that you with with the city investment of $100,000, you can withdraw up to $300,000 for use in a year. And keep in mind, this does not limit the city to only expending $100,000. They can always spend more if needed. All right, that is that's it for 13. Page 14. This is on the section for initiative and referendum. We have making the recommendations to reduce the requirement of verified signatures from 15% to 10% of the qualified electors registered to vote. The second change of that section, is to, change it from 90 days of filing or soon thereafter. Supervisor of elections shall permit and instead replace that with at the next city or county election. That aligns with our current practice. And that's why that change is requested. The second part of that change in amendments, which is to the bottom of the page, and those sections, those updates are all scrivener's errors. There's no change of substance. There And then we get into, the hospital section and the charter, I'll ask you to go to last page, page 15. We wanted to make sure that it's very clear in the charter that the city owns the hospital and property, and we wanted to update the charter to so that the Leasee is designated and the correct name is used. The correct name of the organization who is leasing the hospital is the Tarpon Springs Hospital Foundation, Inc. So that is why those are there. And we've put some emphasis in in terms of city owned hospital property throughout that section. And with that, I've completed my presentation of the recommendations from the for the, for a new the draft ordinance, if there's any questions, I'm happy to entertain them. Thank you. Doctor, are there any public comments on this item? Yes, sir. David Ballard Geddis Jr I live on Georgia Avenue down the street in Palm Harbor. I did go to one of the charter review meetings, and during that meeting they were talking about the sidewalks. And the charter sidewalks were referenced twice. The first time the sidewalks were referenced or referenced in regards to public sidewalks. Later on in the charter, the word public has been omitted. My concern is with the recent trend of private public partnerships, transfer of development rights, variances, eminent domain capabilities, the sidewalk of such not being labeled as a public sidewalk, thereby could be a privatized sidewalk such as our roads that are privatized are toll roads, reclaimed water availability fees, those charges come from a privatized system of reclaimed water charges on my Pinellas County water bill. Should this privatization method pursue, will the sidewalk itself become privatized? I have an issue with, such private public partnerships being given domain capabilities, and I call the, omission of labeling regarding that sidewalk as it's referenced later in the charter, in question, thank you. Thank you, sir. Are there any other public comments? It are there any zoom comments? If anyone online would like to make public comment on this item, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Thank you, Commissioner Eisner. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I did get to watch all of your meetings. I think I may have been tardy onc, I couldn't have thought of a better group of people. I think you did an amazing job, Carey. Thank you. And I think everybody did a great job. I know Joan was keying in on grammar, grammatical errors, and Tina was chirping in. And John Trapani, made some excellent comments. So I was pretty much very impressed with everything, but I did want to go through certain things. That I am either in agreement or disagreement, the 25 to 50,000. I was in agreement of the 350 to 500. I'm also in agreement of, I thought bringing up the referendum to referendum that John brought up was exquisite. It was well thought out. And I agree with that. 100%, changing it from a 3 to 5 year citywide strategic plan, was also good. I have one issue with the assistant city manager, D'albi. I think that should be in the hands of the city manager and not forcing their hand, I think it could be something better worded where it is their right to have it, but not being forced, because when we were interviewing, at least when I was interviewing both city managers, both of them said they never had a city assistant city manager assistant, and they didn't know if they would like one. So why force that down? You know, on them. But that's I think is up to them. But we should have it in there that they have the right to have that help because yes, the city has grown a lot, I also am I know there was a lot of discussion that went on about where is going to be is it ten miles away? Is it ten miles from here? Ten miles from there? I remember the there was a lot of discussion, I think it was more centrally located to go for ten miles from the police fire department section out rather than using, city hall. So that would be the only other, thing. It's not a major deal. It's just I think it's more centrally located. It's more towards the middle of tarpon. And I think that would give us a better, because that's in the event of emergency. That's where they would have to report to in the first place. Nobody's going to report to City Hall. We're going to report to the police station. So I think that's better, I was thrilled that we did the sidewalk from 100 to 300,000, because I know every year we seem to always run out of money and we need more work done. So I was glad with that, my last question is, did we? Because I know before I went away on vacation, there was a comment and I know John Tier Penny was bringing it up about wanting to see the contract. Exactly how it was written with the hospital. Did we get that? Yes we did. Well, we got the lease as opposed to, which is the contract. That was good because I know it was a stickler. And you know, with law you want to have that correct. So I thank you, John, for that input. And I thank you for what you did. And I thank the whole board. The board did an amazing job, I think you guys really put your heads together, and I couldn't have asked for a better board if I picked all of you myself. So it was really good. Thank you, Commissioner Donato. I would echo many of the sentiments that Commissioner Roger just said. I do want, as we re discussing some matters, but I commend you because I've been on that committee three different times, and I know the work it takes to go pretty much line by line by line and reason out, what should be in the charter and what should not? And so I'm grateful for your committee, and I thank you all who served, and we may be looking at you again in five years. We'll see. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Collins. Yeah, I, too, want to congratulate the charter revision Committee. They did a great job. You guys put a lot of hard work in, vice mayor. How is this going to work? Are we? We have 30 days, to approve this. Are we going to have a special workshop for this, or how are we going to do it, city clerk, can you help out with this answer? Yes So this is just a draft ordinance, and presentation. The first presentation by the charter to the Board of Commissioners, the Board of Commissioners will have 30 days to come back and vote and discuss further what they would like, what they'd liked, or what they didn't like. And those recommendations would be going back to the charter for review. At that point, you have the 30 day mark is October 3rd, our next or the latest possible time for the BOC would be October 1st, and we'll probably have a special session just to discuss charter. If there's any charter changes, then it would go back to the charter Revision Commission, and they would decide whether they're going to change it or keep it as it is. If they don't change anything, then it would be back to the it would come back for a first reading on in final form on November 19th, with the second reading being on December third if the board chooses and they don't like something, then they could put their question if the charter doesn't change that, then the BOC would have the opportunity to put their own question as a question from the Board of commissioners, on that and all of that would be put into a resolution question form and be submitted to the. So by mid-December. Thank you. Thank you. Doctor, I just want to thank you for chairing the committee, as well as everyone else who served on the committee. This committee got together once a week for almost, 26 weeks, I believe, if not even longer. Not quite that much. And we kind of loafed for half of July and half of August because we got done early and then Attorney Salzman took his time with the draft, so we had about four weeks off. Well, I will say they were in those some of those meetings that were in there for a good five hours. So they were talking over everything they could and coming together on some issues. So I do want to thank you all for putting the time together. And, soon we'll be looking at everything and coming back with any you know, questions or possible changes at all. But overall, we're looking at a potential how many questions may be on the ballot. Well, no, there's there are more changes. I just jumped over the Scrivener. Okay. Changes. There's a three pages or three and a half pages of whereases. So it gives you an idea how long this is going to be. It's not a short one, but it's not as long as other ones have been either, and we were very, concerned about putting more in the charter, we tried to address it, the changes requested. From the perspective of does this need to be a charter change or can this be done through referendum, or can this be done through, I'm sorry, through ordinances or by direction of the board or, you know, working with the city manager? Because not everything needs to go in the charter, even though it's a great idea. We had great ideas presented to us internal from our commission, as well as everyone who came in, I was I was really I was really amazed at the, the insights that our, our speakers shared. I mean, they were they were insightful people. Your citizens know your city. And it was wonderful to see that, and I have to say that the each one of the individuals that was on the commission, deserves big thank yous because they really they showed up, they listened to each other. Sometimes it got, you know, I wouldn't say we never got into arguments or it wasn't heated like that, but they were energetic at times, you know, and everybody got their opinion, heard. And I was really proud of the commission for listening to each other. So I'll say that and end it there. So thank you very much. Maybe I'll see you in five years if, if any of you are here. Thank you. Doctor root for the presentation. All right. Item four, we have a proclamation for Patriot Day and National Day of Service and Remembrance. Please come up. Chief young, both chiefs. City of Tarpon Springs, Florida. Proclamation. Whereas Patriot Day officially known as National Day of Service and Remembrance, is observed every September 11th in honor of the individuals who lost their lives as a result of terrorist attacks. On September 11th, 2001. And Whereas each year on this date, we remember all the heroes and the bravery shown that day, just as we remember how we came together, united in grief and in purpose and whereas we renew our solemn vow to never forget what happened on September 11th, 2001, and those who lost their lives that day. And whereas on Patriot Day and National Day of Service and Remembrance, we honor every life that was taken too soon. We honor the first responders, firefighters, law enforcement officers, emergency workers, and service members who answered the call of duty and the brave civilians who rushed into action to save lives that day. And Whereas, the city of Tarpon Springs recognizes September 11th as a day of remembrance to honor the memory of the individuals who lost their lives and those who united in response to the tragedy. Now, therefore, I, Panagiotis Kollias, by by virtue of the authority vested in me as acting mayor of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, do hereby proclaim September 11th, 2024, as National Day of Service and Remembrance and Witness. I've set my hand and caused the seal of the city of Tarpon Springs, Florida, to be affixed. This third day of September, 2024. Here you both go, sirs. Thank you. Thanks. I'd like to say a few words. Oh, just, thank you, everybody. And thank you for the commission and the city manager for never letting us forget, for, police chief and myself. This is a day that we'll always remember where we were at that day when we were working. And what transpired. And we always appreciate the city remembering it. And our members of our departments always thank you for this. To thank you all. Appreciate it. And I just I'll just echo fire Chief Young's, comments. And, you know, this goes out to all first responders, but us as a nation, a community as a whole. And that day lives in echoes and remembrance and hopefully nobody ever forgets that the lives that were lost, that day. And, God bless America. Thank you. Are there any public comments on the proclamation? It are there any zoom comments? Anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item? Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. Go ahead. Sir Yes, sir. We do not have any raise hands. I'm extremely grateful for the emergency services that we have in this country. Grateful for them on the Covid issue as well. Nine over 11 we had three buildings that fell that day. Two airplanes causing an issue. I have trouble with the math on that. I think we need to revisit that day. And I'll end my statements there. Thank you. Are there any other public comments on this item? Next we will we will be going to public comments, I am going to ask the residents and those speaking. Once the time is up, I will give you about five seconds after to get your final thoughts out. Then I will ask for the next speaker. If you're looking to donate time on any future agenda items coming up, I ask that you state the minutes that you'll be borrowing from the person before you start speaking. Thank you all. Point of order. I did want to speak on that topic. Go ahead sir. Thank you. So September 11th is a very tough time for me. I'm going to get choked up a little bit, I'm one of the very few people in this room that was on my way into Manhattan, and I saw, the second plane hit. I got to see the tip of the fuselage come out of the second South building, and then vaporize. It was probably the most, clearest, beautiful blue skies you could ever picture. And to watch those buildings smolder, I knew that the second building, with the amount of black smoke was going to go down first. There was no question in my mind I was the distance away of where I saw debris falling off the building, and I didn't realize until I got home that those were people jumping because they didn't want to be burned alive. They stopped filming that after enough people called up because it was a very gory sight to see people fixing their ties, their dresses before they leaped 80 stories down to be dead. It was. It took seven years. My only way that I was able to withstand the PTSD of watching this was that I had no friends that died. I knew people that knew people, but I never had any friends die in this. Seven years into it, I made a call to a friend of mine in Vegas, and it was the first time he shared with me my friend Robert Alan Miller was the guy that you read about that refused to leave his boss at the Fitzgerald in a wheelchair, and he decided to sacrifice his life and bounce this guy down. 80 stories. He never made it out, nor did his boss. My wife was sitting in this room now, watched me cave to my feet when I saw his name. The name. What does that mean? But people from all over gave my sister and brother in law set up a triage for the animals that were looking for, the lost people and their job was to take glass out of the paws of the animals, and they tried to give them oxygen. It was probably one of the toughest times I ever saw in my life. I had to go to a tribute with my sister escorting my sister to this event. I just hope that we never have to go through anything like that ever again. It was the most horrendous thing that I'd ever seen, and I just, I hear more and more about the effects. A close friend of mine worked for Con Edison, which is like our Duke Energy here he was on the pile, working to disconnect all the lines he developed asbestosis and he lives on oxygen these days. There's no amount of money you can give somebody to replenish their health and their well-being. So many people are dying today. And then when I went to the tribute for the dogs, I found out this was six months later. Not one of the dogs lived. They all got asbestosis and they all died from their inhaling. So September 11th to me is like a moratorium. I feel like I lost a part of my heart and I just wanted to share that with you, because watching it on TV was one thing. Watching it live was something else. I every time I watched it on TV, I did not. It was nowhere near what the replication of seeing it live. If you could put back in your head the 3000 over 3000 people died. It was probably one of the most beautiful cave ins of buildings you'd ever seen. A beautiful day, the cloud of crushing glass glittering and 3000 people dying. First responders like our chief and our fire chief. Fire trucks all over were completely destroyed. The cloud of asbestos that covered the city took years for us to clean that up. And then all of a sudden, a big heavy rain came and heavy winds and washed out most of it. It was almost like God said, I need to cleanse the city of what just happened. And that's the story I want to share with you, because it's something that burns in my heart every single year. So thank you for listening. We're now going back to public comments. Please state your name and address. For the record, you will be given four minutes to speak. The Native Produce, 901 Bay Shore Drive. We were very fortunate to have Jim Collins and John Trapani on the charter revision. They gave a lot of history and background because they had served on the charter revision before. Many times, I went to most of the meetings and it was still a learning process for me. I would just like to tell the commissioners and on the board, we need to look at our historic preservation board. When you go up on Tarpon Avenue and you see the building that's been remodeled and changed, it doesn't go in with what we've got up on Tarpon Avenue. The green paint is out of sight. And the change the windows and the historic antique glass from the wind from the windows, and they've changed the front. It looks like a Woolworth's five and dime on Tarpon Avenue. It doesn't keep up with the making of the historic value of our city. So we need next year. So to look at good historic preservation work with the state and other communities like Tarpon, to be able to preserve what we have. We've lost something and we won't get it back now. And it's a shame because it's out of, core with what we've got in Tarpon. So I urge you all to start looking at historic preservation. We don't have to make it so strict that people can't do things with their property, but there are certain things that we need to keep to keep our historic value in our community. Thank you. Oh, and also, mayor, we have a former mayor here, Tom Collins, a former commissioner, David Banther, and another former commissioner, John Trapani. They need to be recognized. They came to our meeting. Thank you. Next speaker, please. My name is Kerry Root. I live at 1061 South Queen Alexis Drive here in Tarpon Springs. When I learned to drive, I had to read a book. So I understood the rules. I had to take a written test, and then I had to take a driver's test, which luckily I passed the first time, but it was upstate New York and that wasn't always a given. The reason I bring that up is because we have rules for the road so we can know how to safely navigate those roads. Those roads we know we can. You know, there's rules of engagement. And they're they're there to keep us safe. They're there to, to protect our communities, our property, ourselves, etc. With city meetings and other types of meetings, we have rules. There too, for how to conduct ourselves, there those rules are usually called parliamentary rules of order. We often refer to that as Robert's Rules. But I saw last week at the end of the meeting, told me that this commission needs to really bone up on their Robert's Rules. The reason I say this is because there are. And I'll just I'll make this very brief. I, you know, going into Robert's Rules, it's pretty extensive. In order to invoke a motion to table, you have to have a motion that you're that that's been put forward and seconded. You can't just say, I'm going to motion to table something indefinitely. Furthermore, if you want to postpone, if you want to take a motion off the table using one of the parliamentary rules, that is to be done using a, a motion to propose postpone indefinitely, not a motion to table indefinitely. And both of those are subordinate motions, which means you have to have a motion. There to begin with. So I would assume that your attorney would help you with the parliamentary rules and help guide you if they see things amiss, like we had last week. But I really recommend that you all figure out what your rules are of engagement, because that's what makes it fair. That's what gives everybody an opportunity to work on a level, playing field, because I didn't see that last week. I understand the why behind what you wanted to do, but how it was done was not appropriate. Thank you very much. Next speaker, please. Susan Swenson, 327 Manatee Lane, Tarpon Springs. I just come up here with a nice note. I was given the honor along with about 7 or 8 other people to attend the APA, American Planning Association meeting today in Tampa. And I'll just tell you, it was a wonderful time. And I think we all collectively learned quite a bit. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker, please. It are there any zoome comments online? If anyone online would like to make a public comment, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. We do have a raised hand. I'll allow the first speaker in. The phone caller. If you can unmute and state your name and address for the record. What's up? Mute I'm sorry. Good evening Peter Lucas, 514 Ashland Avenue. Just a housekeeping thing before I get to my comments, being on zoom and you're listening on the phone and watching on TV, there's about a 10 to 15 second lag. So when we raise our hand for, comments, a lot of times you don't get the hand seen before. So if Mr. Jump can let you know, a hand comes up somewhere in the same discussion area would be helpful. Now, what I'd like to talk about is this last Thursday, the friends got a call from one of our members about some activity on the Anclote 74. One of our friends went out there and observed, and there was a big backhoe out there doing some work out there with some other trucks, we did call and report it to FWC, and they did report to it. Now, I did send you some emails. I don't know if you all had a chance to get to see them yet, but one of them was the May 17th of 2024, staff report from Planning and Zoning by Patrick Muniz. Comment 52 where it says any expired or inactive permits must be reinstated or reissued as of the date of this document. This concludes five things of which the FWC Gopher Tortoise Relocation Permit is the last one. It also says site work may not proceed beyond installation of erosion control measures, and tree protection barricades until expired. Inactive permits are resolved. Now, I did notify the city last week. I sent emails. I've also sent you emails of screenshots from the FWC website. It's Morgan Group development permit GTC 23 00316, and I'm reading from the action report from the tracking permits. And if you look on February 29th, it says after action report approved and it says capacity released. And then on April 19th, a refund check was had been issued. So Morgan Group pulled their permit for this. So this is not a valid permit yet. They were doing site work. Now in questioning the city, they said they were doing soil surveying. Well you don't do soil surveying with a backhoe and they do not have a valid permit. Time is up, Mr. Delafose. They're not allowed to do anything on the property except for erosion control and barricades for the trees. So the Morgan group, your time is up, sir. Your time is up. Next speaker. Thank you. Are there any online comments? And we do have another race hand allow the next person in. Is Sharon Landrum, 45, West MLK. I would like to give my time to Peter Delacruz to finish his statement. Thank you. It's not part of our rules and procedures. Are there any online zoom comments left? And we do not have any other raised hands at this time, sir. Thank you. My name is Frank Perry. I live at 1676 Sea Breeze Drive, Tarpon, I went into Panera Bread, as I do every morning to meet some friends. There And one of the waitresses there. Came up. She's in her 60s, and apparently she was attacked by another one of these homeless characters. And had a black eye. And, then she mentioned it was on Facebook. Somebody had taken some films of him, and he was, screaming dead, dead, dead at the top of his lungs, intimidating patrons. People were moving out of the room. He walked into, it's getting ridiculous again. We had this trouble a couple of years ago. I came here and mentioned, they did call your fellas, and they did a good job. They took them in. I'd never seen this one before. They just keep cycling in and out. These guys, there was one, three days ago. At least six foot six, 350 pounds. Crazy He started screaming. I want the police. I want the police. They said, why? I want the police. And he's getting really upset. And he says, I'm paranoid and I have dark thoughts. Well, the people in the restaurant are thinking, what is going on here? This is insanity. And a few days before that, some another one of these homeless guys left human waste smeared all over the women's bathroom. And the men's bathroom and out into the hallway leading to the bathrooms. It's just ridiculous, your guys took the big boy out without incident. Did a good job, something's got to be done. This is constant. They come here for free food. I got one of them. He was going through their cabinets right out in open view. He's stealing sugar. I guess a lot of those druggies like sugar. He's just stealing them, going through all this stuff in there. Well, people are going to be using these packets of sugar and all this stuff. They don't want to see a guy like that. He was filthy and a mess. I said, hey, get out of there. I was a cop for 30 years and I don't like this crap. And he says, oh, you want to go outside? I said, no, right here under the camera start. He didn't like that. He left. You just get sick and tired of it. I don't know what can be done with the, with this problem, but it's just getting worse. It's going to ruin that business. People aren't going to put up with going into a place and trying to enjoy themselves and then get scared to death, because these lunatics really gets old. All right, that's it. Thank you. Thank you sir. City clerk do we have any email comments? Thank you. Their first one is from Layla Jimenez from 721 Brittany Park Boulevard. I am writing to express my deep gratitude to Commissioner Michael Eisner for his invaluable help in advocating for the closure of public sidewalk access point to Dixie highway abutting our home, especially after burglary on August 8th, 2024. Shortly after our move here, we observed safety risks posed by this access point. Initially, we were unsure of who to approach with our concerns and our efforts to address the issue faced, resistance Commissioner Eisner's approachability and prompt response were incredibly reassuring. From our first conversation, it was clear he genuinely cared, he advised me to bring these issues to the city manager and guided me through the process of addressing our safety concerns. His support was crucial in securing the closure of this access point, which has made our family, our neighbors and the neighborhood feel significantly safer. Commissioner Eisner's dedication to Tarpon Springs goes beyond individual concerns. He demonstrates a profound understanding of community needs and works tirelessly to improve residents quality of life. His ability to listen, act swiftly and find practical solutions makes him an invaluable asset to our city. We are truly grateful for his understanding and proactive steps to enhance our community safety. Tarpon Springs is fortunate to have such a responsive, caring commissioner. We extend our thanks once again for his support and for reaffirming our belief that Tarpon Springs is a safe place to raise a family. The next one is from Lisa Benitez, 733 North Florida Avenue. As a fourth generation tarpon, might I take offense at the name change of the Sponge Docks District? Firstly, it's an unnecessary name change. It has been known as the Sponge Docks by the tourist industry and the change may be confusing. All Greek Americans do not live in that area and never have. Yes, many do and still do, but there were also Americans and Bahamian Americans and other nationalities. So the moniker Greek town is deceptive to be historically accurate would be to call the area fish House. That's what it was known as for several generations. I don't recommend that the name to attract tours, but should be less sponge docks district. Another point is that when Greeks immigrated to the US, they were very happy to be here. They integrated into the community, keeping the traditions and culture, but they were proud to be Americans and could not wait to become citizens. The Greek town moniker is insulting to our forefathers personally. My great grandmother came from Patmos and literally kissed the ground when she got off the boat. She was so happy and proud to be an American and passed that love to us. I truly believe that this name change is the beginning of a nefarious end to the Sponge Docks District that our families built. Work, work their fingers to the bones, and many died in the line of sponge diving. I also believe that the youth and the new people to tarpon do not understand the importance of the sponge docks for us older tarpon nights. It's our soul that is the only two I have. Thank you, Miss Jacobs. We are now going to the consent agenda, item five is attorney fees. Johnson Johnson , LLC. Invoices 1333813434. Item six will be pulled to the side as we have some additional information that will be presented to us. That is renewal of EMS and fire contracts with Pinellas County. Item seven is approved. Florida Department of Law Enforcement Grant number six and 015, item eight is increased. File number 240118-NAS single source purchase of 000M replacement parts and services. Item nine is award file number 240098. Dash s Dash a s liquid emulsion cationic polymer for wastewater treatment. Are there any public comments on consent agenda items? Five, seven, eight, and nine? It. Are there any zoom comments? Anyone online would like to make a public comment? Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. The chair will entertain a motion to approve consent agenda items five, seven, eight and nine. So moved. Second, are there any further comments? Roll call please, Mr. DiNardo. Yes, Commissioner. Koulianos. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes, vice mayor Coolio's. Yes. Item six is the renewal of EMS and fire contracts with Pinellas County Chief Young. Good evening, Chief young. Fire department, this this afternoon about 430, I got a got a call from the county regarding these two items, they had wanted to amend pages, 28 and pay of the, fire contract, and they wanted to amend page 45 of the EMS contract, the city attorney did have a chance to look at this before the meeting tonight, this was just adding some language to a couple of the tables in there about what they will, give us money for regarding the new fire station and vehicles throughout the next five years, they just wanted to add those items to the tables that were there, they felt it was necessary to have them there. They're already in the language, but they wanted to add them to the tables. So any motion tonight would just have to include adding the amended, to the two contracts. Are there any public comments on this ite? It are there it are there any zoom comments? If anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Okay, the chair will entertain a motion for renewal of EMS and fire contracts with Pinellas County and with the amendment of the two contracts. So move second any further discussion and roll call, please. Mr. Donato? Yes, Mr. Collins? Yes. Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor Coolio's. Yes right now we have about 20 minutes, I would like to see if this commission would be interested in moving up. Special consent agenda, item 13. Discuss and approve process for vacated mayor seat. The reason why I ask that there's a lot of people here in the public, and potentially it'd be a good conversation. I just ask one thing. Yes, sir. We do it after before. We've got two consultants from a long way on the approval of the two workman's comp and insurance renewals, which should be short, whether we do that first. And I'd just like to get that done before we go to ordinances. Resolutions. That's fine. Okay. Let's, let's do special consent agenda item ten, which is property and casualty worker's compensation insurance renewals with the Fmit. And we will have, miss Jane Kniffen, HR director, and Lindsay Johannessen from Fmit. Good evening, Jane Kniffen, HR director, short, I'm here tonight to recommend that the commission approve. Excuse me? The renewal of the city's property and casualty and workers compensation insurances with the Florida municipal Insurance Trust for a period of one year commencing October 1st, 2004. Sorry. 2024, I guess it goes without saying that you've heard me say this year after year that our costs and our premiums are mainly, excuse me, driven by claims experience and by the frequency and severity of claims, the one thing that we need to keep in mind is actually two things. The first is inflation. As you well know, we've we've experienced record inflation. And as it trickles down it affects the cost of materials labor and operations. And then something near and dear to our hearts is the fact that we live in a very high risk area, the, reinsurers, are located all over the all over the world. Excuse me, therefore, every time you open the open the newspaper, if you or on your iPad or watch TV, there are catastrophic events throughout the world, reinsurers are becoming a little more risk averse, particularly in high risk areas such as ours. So for this renewal, we have a total of 11.37 increase the worker's comp. The actual mod went down, but our payrolls keep going up. So that affects it, our property is stabilized. We had a large increase last year, but it has now stabilized, most of our increases are as a result of general liability. And auto liability, due to, more claims and higher settlements. So without further ado, I will turn it over to Lindsay, and she can answer your questions and maybe elaborate. Thank you. Thank you everyone. My name is Lindsay. I'm from the Fmit. I handle the west coast of the state of Florida. I've been here a few times, so you may recognize me at this point, and, you know, last year we did as Jane had mentioned, have a pretty significant year on the property side. So you all saw your really large increase last year when the asset survey was completed. So the survey that went around all the city's assets and went ahead and, you know, gave you a valuation on that. So after last year's appraisal phase, that was when you saw really the large driver of the premium was the property, this year it's definitely come to a more mellow state, which is kind of where we typically see renewals, on an average year. So you all are at about 11, 11%, and those were, again, as Jane had mentioned, primarily driven on, your actual loss history. So you do have a little bit of an uptick in your auto liability claims as well as your general liability claims. And those do tend to get litigated. So legal fees that are involved with that, you kno, are reserved for. So, at this point, that's kind of where we stand on the insurance, should be a pretty mild year. It sounds like it was budgeted for as well, this is about where we figured the insurance would come in at, given all the factors that we look at. So can definitely open it up for questions if you have any. Thank you. Ma'am, any questions from the board? Commissioner Eisner, thank you. As these premiums get higher and higher, are we looking into bringing higher deductibles? And so higher deductibles are an option, they weren't really part of the equation this year. We typically have a 5% named storm deductible. That's what we have as a standard property insurance premium. All the others. It's considered an AOP deductible. So you actually have two deductibles with the property insurance. So the only way you would really save a significant amount of money was would probably be deductibles on the named storm, and those right now you're at a 5%. And how much you're at a 5% named storm deductible, meaning at the time of loss, 5% of the total evaluated loss is what is owed to us on a deductible. And then we continue to pay the claim from there. I'm just trying to figure out the amount of, reduction. If we do increase the deductible versus what it opens us up liability wise, right, because there does come a point where it's advantageous to just pick up the deductible and keep your fingers crossed and hope for the best. You know, you can always change it. The following year, but it also helps, keep things under control. It does. So is there any way we could find that out, or is this something that's set in stone and has to be approved today. I'm mistaken. We looked. We looked into that. And with the heavy storm season, I think for this season, we decided not to do that. Okay it wasn't that much of a I think we talked about it. I can't remember when we talked about it, but I think we talked about that. But it is something definitely we need to look at for next year because, you know, in my experience in going through insurance, sometimes it's negligible. And I know that, but also sometimes there's a, you know, a large amount that you can gain from that. So, I mean, if you look through it, I'm not looking to make you do double work, I just was curious if that wasn't worth the risk. This year with what we knew was coming out with the storms and the predictions and stuff. But it is definitely something to keep on the radar to look at. When we look at the for the next time. Right. Fair. Appreciate that. Thank you. All right. Thank you. And I do recognize you now from yeah I saw you at the League conference so yes. All right. Well thank you all for your time. And, I'm available for other questions. Are there more? So this is I don't see Ron. Is Ron Herring here? Let's see. Jane, do you know if Ron used what increase Ron used in his budget, proposa. Ron has completely budgeted for this increase. He's covered. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner DiDonato, are there any public comments on this item? Okay. Hi. Thank you again, sir. My question in regards to the policy and claims that potentially can be made by the city, does the, policy, have limitations and exclusions for potential disasters, either natural or man made, and what would those, limitations, be? Does the policy have exclusions and limitations for potential terrorist activities, chemical or biological in nature, are there any exclusions, made by the policy during times of martial law and any exclusions or claims? During times of actual wartime activities, so I can get you a copy of the actual property policy, which will list out all the exclusions in more, you know, direct detail, there are certainly some exclusions that are considered part of the policy, like war. Other types of like natural catastrophes, but for the most part, all weather related issues, catastrophic weather issues are certainly covered, but yes, war, civil unrest, riots, certain things like that have limitations around them, so I can get you a copy of the policy. I can send it. We'll make sure she sends it to the city clerk's office so he can make a public records request and get that. Okay. Thank you. Are there any other public comments? I t are there any zoom comments? If anyone online would like to make a public comment on this item, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. Thank you. Okay Thank you ma'am. The chair will entertain a motion to approve special consent agenda item ten property, casualty and workers compensation insurance renewals with MIT. So moved. Second, there's no further discussion. Roll call please. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner. Persis. Yes, Commissioner. Ice. Yes. Vice mayor. Yes Next, we have item 11. Employee health care insurance. Insurance renewal with the gearing group, the presentation will be given by Miss Jane Kniffen, HR director, and Sean Fleming from the gearing group. Good evening, H.R. Jane. H.R. director. Excuse me. Losing my voice in here. I have allergies, I'm here to ask that you approve the three items that that we have listed on our on our cover page, one being medical, one being basic life and A, D and D, and the third being long term and short term disability, the last two have no increases. We're just continuing the contract to 2026, in in 2019, we went out for a for bid on a consultant. For our benefits because we wanted to provide the best level of benefits at a reasonable cost. So we engaged Gehring, the Gehring Group, who reviewed all of our policies, did amazing things with regard to negotiating, contracts and rates for health care, they were able to how do I put it? They were able to lower, in fact, the original renewal on this policy or this coverage was actually negotiated down by Mr. Fleming, and lastly, I'd like to point out that, the increase has been budgeted across all the departments in their oh point two three accounts, and at risk of saying this year after year after year, I believe that it's very important for us to take care of our employees because our employees are the ones who are more likely to take care of our residents if we take care of them. So we're asking you to absorb the 8.7% increase in the dependent cost, it amounts to, I believe, $451,000, roughly, and I would like to hand this over. Oh, there he is to Sean, so that he can give you his presentation. Thank you, which 1 a.m. I staring? Okay That's it. Yeah, yeah. So. And you can just use the. This this holds up. Okay. Thank you so much. Well, good evening. Thank you all for the opportunity to be here. I'm aware that you have a stop in about six minutes, so I'm going to go quick on a couple of these slides, just to try and get you there in time, but real quick. Just wanted to give you a high level of what's going on, as far as the health insurance market right now. And I'm going to just kind of sum it up in a couple things, what we call medical trend is a fancy word in the industry for medical inflation. And right now, if you look at that line graph on the right side, you'll see going back to about 2007 before the Great Recession, we had medical inflation at around 12%. And you'll see that we had a pretty significant dip. And then a just point to the increase, the last two years. So price Waterhouse Coopers is projecting medical trend to be about 8% nationally. Typically in Florida, we're anywhere about, 3% higher than that because of retiree population health care systems. What's driving that? A couple of things, claims are up post Covid. We have a higher frequency in cancer claims as well as higher costs with treating that cancer. And then we're seeing big impacts from what we call the GOP one medications. Ozempic Wegovy Manjaro. If you've watched any TV, you've probably seen a commercial for those. So you know what I'm talking about. So it's really putting a lot of pressure industry wide. 70% of Americans are considered obese. So think about just the population taking those medications at over $1,000 a month on average, real quick this slide, I'm going to breeze past it. But this is all the lines of coverage that the city has. We'll talk about the recommendations at the end and then what we have here on slide five is the schedule of benefits. So employees have co-pays for various services, $20 to go to the PCP, 40 for the specialist, they have pharmacy co-pays. And then if they go into the hospital, they have deductible and coinsurance. So, going back to 2020, we released an RFP, we received 25 proposals, five medical. We also did another RFP for some of the sub supplemental lines in 2022. We received 12 proposals that year. So what we look at really, when it comes to medical costs is what we call claims experience. So of the money that is paid to the insurance company, how much do they pay out when our employees go to the pharmacy, the hospital, the doctor, right now, the city's loss ratio before the cost of the health center is about 78%. So when we add that 10% for the health center, that's about 88% loss ratio. Ideally the insurance companies, before accounting for inflation, are looking for about 80% to cover the cost of administering the program, so the good news is we saw a spike last year. We really haven't gone down this year. But the good news is we haven't gone up that much. Just 1.1%, pharmaceutical costs are a big portion of our plan. And then we've seen more catastrophic, claims going through. So getting to kind of the meat of things, the renewal projection when we look just based on claims and the cost of health care health center, called for a 14.8% increase. We were able to get that increase with the Florida municipal Insurance Trust down to an 8.7% increase. That includes no change to the rates or, excuse me, to the schedule of benefits. And no change to the health center. So ultimately, the recommendation is to renew with the Florida municipal Insurance Trust. You'll see that info, on slide ten. All the other lines of coverage we were able to negotiate the renewals to no increase. So lastly, I know I feel like I'm on one giant breath here, but our plan is to release an RFP for next year. Part of the reason for that is the lease for the health center ends. So and on top of looking at the medical plans, we want to look both with and without the health center to make sure that that's still the most advantageous option for the city. And if that isn't, we may be back in front of you with a little bit different recommendation. Whether we structure that differently or with a different partner, we could do it the same way that we're doing it now. So with that, I tried to get done right before your, your start for your public hearings, but happy to answer any questions that you may have. Commissioner Eisner, thank you, so I'm going to ask the same question as I asked before. Deductibles, is it advantageous to add more deductible to the policy to get lower premium, not significantly, if you really want to have a move per se and rates, it's actually more about what we call the out-of-pocket max, which is our second line. And that is if I get diagnosed with something really bad, you know, the most I'm going to spend is a single individual right now is $2,500. So moving that deductible. But not moving the out-of-pocket max doesn't really change the rates in any significant manner. The really the only way to drive that change is to raise that worst case scenario for the employees, you know, so if you were to double that and take them from 2500 to 5000 of exposure, you might see 5% come off the rates. But now you have a much more significant impact to the employees. I know you also get a discount for the amount of people you have, but is there a possibility that there could be two different plans? A person who wants to have full coverage, and a person who wants to have catastrophic coverage? Yes, you can always have two plans. One of the downsides we see with having two plans is what we call adverse selection. And essentially that's kind of the theory that if I'm a high utilizer and I'm going to have a lot of claims and go to the doctor a lot, I'm going to always take that richer plan. And what we see happen with groups that have multiple plans over the years is the people that are the high utilizers shift to those plans and that plan starts needing a 30 or 40 or 50% increase year over year, because it's maybe 10% of your population, but they're driving 90% of the cost. And basically that plan gets so unaffordable that then you end up right back at one plan so you can do it. But typically that's what we see. So I would say the last couple years we've actually seen more groups downsize in plan than go up in the number of plans. A lot more on the one plan model. Do you at least run those numbers to see the comparison? We do run those numbers and take a look at it. When you look, you know, the only thing that's going to get you enough spread in the plans to really make someone want to consider moving is going to a straight, high deductible plan where everything in that schedule of benefits is going to be subject to the deductible. The one downside of that is for employees using the health center, we now have to start charging them. Those are IRS rules, so going into next year, as we as we evaluate whether or not we continue with the health center as the lease is up, I think looking at that is definitely something that will have a little more impact next year. I have one more thing, but I don't know if it's something that you are. You know, that would be addressed to you. But I brought this up a number of times. And when I brought this up, I always understood that this has been discussed before. And this is to the city manager. I would like to know if we could also, people have wives or husbands that also have insurance, yet we provide insurance for everybody if they want it. But can't we do where we provide a we? If you don't want to take the insurance, there could be some form of compensation to defer, but you don't have to have those people on for full whatever it is, seven $800 a month. I would like to, see about that and how that might change things. And that's something we can definitely note and, and look at is because we're going into the new era and so, so yes, we can definitely look at that. It's definitely something we can model, you see various structures, largely, you know, the most effective way to do that is really the cost of the coverage. Overall, we do have some groups that give subsidies, like if you take other coverage, the only thing you need to think about that with that is are you going to give that to current employees? Because it may end up costing you more if you've got people passing on it. So that's something next year, as we look, we can do an analysis of like an opt out or a subsidy. We could do a survey and figure out how many people would be willing to consider that. No, absolutely. You can do a survey with surveys. I'm going to and I say this fully and just I always go back to I believe it was Henry Ford. He said if I asked people in a survey what they want would have wanted, they want a faster horse. So I always keep that in mind when we survey. Well, I, I'd like to keep costs under control. Absolutely. And any way that we can do it, I am willing to do it. I don't know if you were going to ask that question. If you are you going to ask that question? Okay. So I'm not I'll pass on that. All right. Thank you. Commissioner Collins. Jane, the same question is this, this increase already in the budget? Yes. It's budgeted. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner DiDonato, my question. It may be too soon to ask you this, but the clinic that we provide for employees, . It would seem that we would help. That would help to lower some of our overall health care costs. And I've asked to see that figure, and I've I'm waiting on it. Can you help me? Yep. We can, we can have the analysis run. We have to get some of the data from the league and the clinic vendor, but that's an analysis we can provide. We're going to be talking about the clinic in the future, I take it. So I would like to have that information. Definitely. And I think, you know, we could do that now. But also updating it as we come into this point next year as we're making a recommendation to have an update on that for you. Thank you. No, I appreciate the presentation, sir. I think it's important that, you know, when we talk about dependance and it's another tool that, you know, our employees deeply appreciate. It's one of the things we have this, hard for any of these municipalities to compete with is our health care and what we provide to the employees. So I'm happy to support this, are there any public comments on this item? It are there any zoom comments? Hearing none. The chair will entertain a motion to approve employee health care insurance renewal with the gearing group. So move. Second, there's no further discussion. Roll call please. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Coleus. Yes So, city manager and city attorney, I know we're at 735, and we have our ordinances and, hearings. Are we able to move up that special consent agenda item and the reason why the public is here? I don't, I don't know how long these quasi could go for and do some interest, but I understand we do have some timelines to meet, so it's up to you, sir. They're your rules. You adopted them. So if the commission decides that they want to alter them, they can. Okay. Can I make a motion? We extend the, the rules of procedure. We suspend the rules of procedure and move along with the special consent items. I second have you made 13? 12? Can wait to 12. Not essential. Yeah, 1212 can wait. Yeah So. And with that, we have, item number 13 discuss and approve. We have to we have to make a motion. Oh sorry, can I hear a motion to entertain a motion, please? We have a motion on the floor. Just a vote. And is there a second? Yes. Roll call please. Commissioner Donato. Yes, Commissioner. Koulianos. Yes, Commissioner. Eisner. Yes, vice mayor. Coleus. Yes. So, item 13 is discussed and approved. Process for the vacated mayor seat, we understand where we're in the spot that we're in. I think it's important that as we have as many people here as possible to have this discussion, openly. And then that way we can come to an agreement and see how we're going to approach this situation. So city attorney and hand it over to you, thank you very much, so, as you know, the mayor's issued his resignation on August 22nd, there are two documents that I looked at that are controlling here. One is your city charter. And then, as you know, you all have your own rules of procedure that you adopted via resolution. The more, more controlling document, obviously, is your, your city charter, your city charter requires and this is at section 11, with subsection C and D requires the filling of that vacancy within 60 days. 60 days is your shot clock starting with, starting at August 22nd, the key to this is how you fill it. Is prescribed in your rules of procedures, and I'll get to that in a minute. But essentially, your job is to appoint either someone from the commission or someone else who's qualified, to fill the vacant seat, until, until the next election can be held. Okay so what's also key to this is that, it's unequivocal in your charter that you can only have two consecutive terms whether you're commissioner or mayor. So you can't go beyond your two consecutive terms. So keep that in mind as you start thinking about that. So if any mayor or commissioner is appointed to such office, I'm reading from subsection C, as provided herein. Such person may be a candidate for such office for two consecutive terms. So that's somebody that's appointed, and doesn't isn't already taking up a term here on this commission. So keep that in mind as well. So in essence, the, the options are to and you have to do it by majority vote, which would be here, you only have four votes on the commission. So it'd have to be 3 to 1 vote. Okay. Not not a tie vote, and then when you go to the rules of procedure, it does say that it has to be done at a regular meeting. A regular meeting, not a special meeting or anything like that. So it has to be done in a regular meeting. And I'm reading from section three of your rules of Procedur, and there are a couple of steps it says, I'll read them to you, the nomination process shall be explained to the commission and the public by the mayor or the parliamentarian. Be the chair opens the floor for nomination. The each member of the commission upon recognition of the chair, shall have a right to place a nomination for commission before the nominations are closed. So it gives each commissioner a chance to nominate someone. D when all nominations have been made, the chair will so announce and declare nominations closed. E if only one commissioner is nominated, that person will be declared by chair to be appointed and shall serve until a successor is elected. Okay, so essentially you're you're basically putting someone in the seat of mayor until the next election. Okay F if more than one nomination has been made, selection of the commissioner will be accomplished by motion, so this is kind of mixing and matching matching, mixing and matching. The, they're saying, Commissioner versus mayor, but it's still the same process. If you have a vacancy, you have a vacancy. And so it's your job to either select someone from amongst yourself or to select someone else. But I just want you to keep in mind the fact that it does appear that in your charter says that, you know, the term of the mayor and commissioner shall be three years. No person shall be eligible to hold the office of mayor or commissioner or both, for more than two consecutive full terms. So I interpret that to mean that you can't, you can't add more terms to your, to your cycle if you will, by being nominated mayor. So in other words, you can't have three terms. You can finish out the term, if you're appointed. That's clear as mud. Right That's the first the, the very first time you brought it up, it confused me a little bit. Now. Yeah. We'll just have to ask again and clear it up. So Okay, let's go to, commission comment, discussion. Any ideas or approach? Commissioner Eisner, I think Frank was first Commissioner Donato. Well, I, I'm sure as many as all of you up here have looked at this in every way. I know how to. I've discussed it with many people. I've even discussed it with some people I know in other cities, I couldn't think as long back. In my mind, it was far back as I go. I can't remember, a city mayor ever resigning office during with term left. So it's kind of new ground for me. And I'm sure it is there for all of us. I've looked at what's the easiest and the most efficient and quite frankly, I it didn't work out the way I'd hoped because I was looking at some, a former mayor, to, to step in and carry us to march, I did not find one, necessarily that I thought would get three votes. So my next move is we could think about sliding someone over. We have a declared candidate. We could do that and then fill his seat or third. And what I think to be the fairest to all concerned would be to simply appoint a past former commissioner, to serve at an effective date, what? That date is, we can we can determine those are the three things that I see. I'm interested to see what the others at this point say. Yes, sir, Commissioner Eisner, thank you, so, the two things that I was thinking about was one, Commissioner DiDonato was a past mayor. I think I'm throwing it a hot potato in your lap, but I'm okay with that, I listened in the last meeting about how calm he is, how he's done this before. It would take, a gods person to try to keep this board civil. And I think he's the person to do that. So I don't see a problem unless he doesn't want to do that. I don't see a problem in him stepping up to the plate and then we appointing somebody else, my second idea, and I'm this is not in any order, but I also was very appreciative in watching, Doctor Root handle the charter committee, and she ran that quite well, she's very knowledgeable in Robert's Rules, and I personally would be comfortable having her. She's not in taking sides on anybody. And I think that she would be a perfect candidate, to, you know, I hope I'm not sticking you with something, but, I just think we need to have, something that's going to gel us together that we don't have these battles up her, and I'm okay with either one, I just don't think it's appropriate to. We had a little bit of contentious last meeting, and some of that contentious meeting was what caused the mayor to, you know, remove himself. So I don't know if that's a good idea for the rest of us to be involved in moving into that position. So that's where I stand. Commissioner Yanez. I too, I too would think that the first thought that came to my mind was Frank DiDonato gliding over since he's been a mayor. But the problem with that is that Frank would then not. He would he would his term would be finished in, April, and he's run for office to be there, be with us for 18 months. So we would lose him in April unless he decided to run again, which would extend him out. And farther than maybe he wants to. I mean, he can comment on that. I think that it's ambiguous, and I don't want to take any risks of any of us, the remaining three, that if we take that spo, that that would be our second term, which would then preclude anybody from running. And am I correct? So if they're if they're sitting here now and they and they shift over to mayor, are they getting a second term? They would be, they're not forfeiting their term, but basically they would just be continuing the term that they have. Okay. And then they would I don't know how many. What excuse me? I don't know what term you guys are in if you're at 1 or 2 or, but, essentially you can't have more than two terms. So if someone moved into the mayor's spot from here, they would just be that would be a continuation of the existing term. And then there would be assuming that was your first term, and then you would have another term, that you would be able to run for mayor for another term, keep in mind, though, I also want to tell you that if someone does move over, then you do have another vacancy to fill, right? So you have to go through this process again by finding someone else, and then keep in mind that 60 day, if that 60 day window closes, then it does say the governor will appoint. Well, we don't want to get there. So, With that, I mean, I hear what Commissioner Eisner is saying about, the meetings and the contentiousness of. We'll comment on, any anybody else's participation in that. But the, but I would think that going out and getting a, experienced, I to approach some mayors, former mayors and, to no avail. So, I would, I would be fine with the commissioner, that could take over, and one of them is sitting in the audience right now, former commissioner Banther, who I think would be excellent up here, to take us into, through the remainder of, of this term so I could go for that as well. Thank you. Remember, right now, we're just. This is discussion about our process, and I understand we do have some, great people in the auditorium here with, being candidates, I'm looking for a timeline of, October 15th, which would be the fourth regular session meeting. And that would be about 4 or 5 days prior to the 60 day deadline. But we need to potentially fill two positions if we appoint from within, we need to be able to fulfill the vacated commissioner seat that day. And if we choose someone to be appointed as mayor, well, then it would be easier than any of us to move around. We wouldn't have to move around. Very similar to that process that we did in appointing Commissioner DiDonato during, Frank's or during the prior commissioner's resignatio. We need to see a list of people who are interested. Not so much applications, but if you're interested to be appointed as a commissioner, seat, let City Hall know if you're interested in be appointed as a mayor. Let city Hall know, I think we should open up a 30 day window prior to that October 15th deadline. So we have all applicants available and ready, I have no intentions on making that decision. Move forward other than October 15th. We all took an agreement during this. Vice mayor sharing that, you know, we would all share the five month terms as between Commissioner Cooley and us and, Commissioner Eisner and myself, some things happened as we know, and hopefully that alone can unite us because that, that was that was a tough week for all of us. I think. And, I'd like to be able to prove myself as well as, you know, I don't think we should hide our true ambitions and get a wake up call. You know, the very next day when things happen. So I would definitely be interested in showing my ability to run the meetings and be a ceremonial, figure for the city for the next six months. And so I will have no problem if I was appointed by my peers. But I also asked to give me a chance during that process. And so that's where I would like to go with that. And I believe a 30 day notice to anybody wanting to fill the commission seat as well as being appointed for mayor, and we make that decision together as a as a board. October 15th, with everybody who either wants to be appointed as mayor or be appointed as commissioner. A list of all those candidates, for a public agenda item on a regular session. Does anybody have thoughts on that? Question, sir. So I'm at a loss why we would need to have two appointments. There's four of us up here if somebody, one of us moves into the mayoral position, you still only only need one other person. So the same thing. If you're appointing someone from the outside, it's a one person. I don't know where the two people came into play. You have to appoint a mayor, and then you have to appoint a commissioner. So? So if we go that one route. Yeah, but you're not needing to you're doing that from within. So we're only really taking one outsider, but it's still two appointments. Sir, I understand, believe me, but it's I just didn't want anybody to think that we're appointing two people. One would be from within. One would be on an outside. It's still one outsider. That's right. Commissioner Kelly. Yeah. So if. Okay, so the actual date that we have to swear this mayor in is by what, the 22nd or 23rd city clerk, the 60 day period is October 19th. From the day the mayor vacated his office. So we would have to appoint that position prior to October 19th. So why don't. Why don't we consider doing it on? We have a meeting on October 1st, correct? Yeah So why don't we consider doing it on October first just to be safe? I mean, we're in in hurricane season. I mean, God forbid something happens and we have to miss a meeting or it shifts and we don't want to hit that. We're so close between the 15th and the 19th to hit that, you know, deadline that that the governor would then step in. I just think we're only we're giving ourselves only four days. And I mean, my response to that is we need to give enough people time to apply within. I mean, we went through that same situation with, the prior resignation, which we had the special appointment I ended up going into the special election, whic, that appointment was about six months until we had the election. So it's very similar what we have going on here. And as I said, you know, as the vice mayor, you know, I for 60 days, I have that ability. And that's what we all agreed upon to. So we need to give the residents enough time to get people to apply as well as letting people know. And I just don't want to rush it. I don't think one extra meeting is going to make a difference. And after speaking with the city manager, he's got a list of agenda items that shouldn't be too controversial. The only controversial item we've had that was A22 vote for a while was that Moses Tucker agreement that eventually ended up being a development agreement. So I think we did fine not having a commissioner for several months before then. And I don't think one more meeting is going to make a difference. And I believe we'll all come together on that day. There should be no reason why we don't. Commissioner DiDonato. Well, I, I just I remember when I was appointed, it was almost two months after the person I was appointed left office until the time I got it, I, I don't see, you know, I'm okay with waiting because I believe whoever we appoint and bring on needs some time to, to make sure they're caught up with what we do or what we're doing, what we might want to do. So I have no if we appoint someone that has prior experience, that has a job as well, it's certainly they may need to tie up some loose ends as well. So I don't have a problem with, moving it into October. I just the only thing I don't like about it is that we're just waiting. We're we're 4 to 5 strong. That's that's my only question. As far as the commissioners that mentioned me moving over, I'm honored that each of you would say that. And I certainly feel that I can can add to that, but I still think I have some work here to do, and I think I need longer. That's why I ran to begin with. So I do not have a desire to move over to the mayor's seat. But thank you both very much. But but at the same time, we lost almost two months last time. I don't want to see us do that again, if we do, it should be pretty doggone soon after. At that time. That's that's that's how I feel. So, and I, you know, two weeks ago, we had two declared candidates. Now we have one, and I understand the reasoning for the change, but at the same time, in fairness, as I said, the third option may be the answer. It should affect less feelings. We can make an effective date. It doesn't have to be tomorrow, but that's that's where I stand on this. So Okay, if the. If there are no further comments, the. I do have one more thing. Yes, sir. If I may, if we're if we're going to appoint, whether it be for mayor or whether it be to fill the vacant commissioner spot, if we slide somebody it to me, it should be an experienced person who who, is fairly recent and I would I would agree that David Banther would be that person, he's he's kept abreast of what's going on. I don't see a reason to wait and go through. I mean, you had five people when you picked me. I was one of five, if we're filling it with somebody who has the experience so we can get up and run, then we need to go with somebody who has the experience to do it, and again, I'm in favor of moving forward, but if we need a little time to do that and I think we would for a new person, to, to set a date sometime in October. Yes. And I've actually I've spoken with Mr. Banther, so I would support him as as a potential fill in. I I'll tell you the truth, I'd also consider appointing, former mayor Alahouzos. And, you know, we could say what we want, but he's, he's not part of any, you know, group here, and he can. He definitely has some grit. So for five months, I don't know, but we're talking about experience and individuals and not stacking the deck potentially. So there are options out there and that's what it is. You know find me find me. Five people that aren't friends who love Tarpon Springs. And we'll get some stuff done. You know? So, I'd like to entertain a motion that we have, the appointment of mayor or and potentially commissioner on October 15th. The motion dies. Chair will entertain a motion. I make a motion. I make a motion that we, have the appointment on October first. I'll second that. I'm not going to support the issue because I know the importance of what my two colleagues who supported it and seconded it when they agreed to the vice mayorship and the equal mutual sharing of it. I didn't even want to do that the first time. I was so disappointed that we had to break the rules for participation trophies that, you know, I called it back up so we could just give it to Commissioner Eisner. And so he refused it at the time. And so here we are, through the grace of God that, you know, I'm in this spot right now, so I'm not going to support three weeks when I'm sure all four of you would or three of you would wait to get your four meetings in and, and so we're basically not going with the rules that we would agree upon. So I'm not going to support it. Is there any further comments? Roll call please. Mr. Donato yes, Commissioner. Collins. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Yes No. Okay now we're going to go to our ordinance and resolutions. The ordinance 14, resolution 202435, reappointment of temporary part time senior administrator. Well, there was no you got to call public comments on that. Would you like that? Let's have public comment on that item. Date? October 13. Yeah. Okay. Yes All right. So we're going to go to the resolution ordinances resolution 202435 reappointment of temporary part time senior administrator. This is an item, coming up, Paul Smith, Paul Smith, six months time is up. So I want to renew it. Obviously a lot of things he had to do. Was taken up with the city manager search, which was great to have him involved and stuff, but I'd like to renew that agreement. You will note on the agreement that I set the date, January 2nd, because that's the last date I'm here in my capacity, not as city manager, but transition, so normally it'd be a six month agreement, but I didn't feel my place to go beyond that. The board can obviously, decide. And it is up to so if the new city manager comes in and you decide to end it earlier, it's up to a time. So if you want to make it up to six months, like the last one, that would, that would be fine. But I just didn't feel it right to me. Propose it for a time when I wasn't here, I don't need to explain all the good work, the Paul Smith does. He's going to be extensively involved in looking at the new Largo pay plan. A lot of the things you brought up in the budget, to do with the employees and the salaries and stuff. He's got a lot of work to do in that area, that we just didn't get to because of the city manager process. So again, it is up to in my memo up to January 2nd, but if anyone would like to make it for the six months and again, anytime it can be stopped and ended, it's not a guarantee. It's just up to that time perio. So I'm bringing that forward for you to approve. So I don't lose them tomorrow. Mr, Vice Mayor, this is poised as a resolution, so maybe I should read the title, sir. Resolution 2024, Dash 35, a resolution of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, authorizing reappointment of a temporary part time staff position of senior administrator and providing for an effective date of September 7th, 2024. Okay I'm sorry for going too fast. I wasn't exactly in agreement the last time when we put this in a resolution, but the attorney at that time thought it so, so sorry I didn'. Wasn't you? Okay. Are there any other public comments on this item? It are there any zoom comments? There is anyone online who would like to make a public comment on this item. Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. We do have a race handle. All the first person in. If you can unmute and state your name and address for the record. Good evening Peter Lacoste, 514 Ashland Avenue. I wholeheartedly support this resolution. Paul Smith is one of our most institutional knowledge person in the building, and I would hardly support that. But I also have to say dirty, dirty, dirty shame, shame, shame. Vice Mayor. Yes, you cannot make a motion. You have to pass the gavel. Secondly, looks like you're changing rules procedures already in effect because you didn't call for any public comment on that last item. Now you have a new city manager coming in on October 1st. I would highly recommend you have one candidate for mayor, John Koulianos needs to be appointed as mayor, and that will create continuity until March. And if you want to be mayor, then you can put your application back in to run against John in March. Or if Mike wants to run to be mayor, y'all can all do it now. Frank is the elder statesman and I appreciate his passing on. And Frank and I, he knows we've settled our differences, but right now you need to point John as mayor. And then in the interim, as you mentioned, between now and October 3rd or whatever that meeting is, you take applications from anybody who wishes to put their name in the hat for the commission seat of Mr. Giuliani's. So that really is how you should have handled it. But you didn't take any public comment and hear anything as far as a reasonable way to solve this and creating a transition for the new city manager, you're going to have a city, a new mayor from October 1st to maybe March. If you appoint somebody else and then someone gets elected. No that that doesn't make sense. You're going to put a new city manager through two mayors in less than six months. Come on guys, get real. Move John over to mayor. And if you guys Mike or John or Funnyordie want to run against them, do it. But quit playing around for a whole month without a mayor in the seat. And then you can fill the commission seat on that meeting in October third. Thank you for your time. Any other public comments? Have any other raised hands at this time? All right. Back to the Commission. We're going to ask to entertain a motion to approve the reappointment of temporary part time senior administrator with the amendment from four months to six months. So moved second. There's no further comments. Roll call, please. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Mr. Collins? Yes Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Yes ye. I have no, no. Item 15, resolution 2024-23 site plan approval for property located at 599 Island Drive. This is a quasi judicial application, Mr. Vice Mayor, could could we take a five minute recess just. Sure, sure. Well, you don't mind? Sure, meeting in the recess until 815. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Do you want to show us? Daddy used to say that's a gross name. It was previously. It was his favorite show. Same kind of. But that was not. Right. Yeah. Yeah but. But with both feet and legally voted. The meeting is back in session at 8:17 p.m. Next item is resolution item 15, resolution 2024-23. Site plan approval for property located at 599 Island Drive. This is a quasi judicial proceeding. All right. Thank you, Mr. Vice Mayor, as you said, this is, the next three items, 15, 16 and 17 are quasi judicial. I'm going to go through the same procedure for all three of them. So I'm going to start off by introducing the item. Since it is a resolution, a resolution of the board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, approving application number 20 3-1 56, requesting site plan approval to construct a marine related industrial facility. Parentheses. Commercial fishing operation. Close parentheses on a 0.2 acre parentheses. More or less of close parentheses of property located at 599 Island Drive on the west side of Island Drive between Hill Street and, Dawson. I will get better at this boulevard, I promise. Everyone including 34 3490ftâ– !S of existg and new building floor area and located in the SDC marine industrial commercial transect of the sponge Docks and Community Redevelopment Area. Special area plan providing for findings, providing for approval of standards by warrant approved, providing for conditions and providing for an effective date. Okay, so in a quasi judicial hearing, first of all, one of the things I want to ask is does anyone have any conflicts that they feel they cannot, vote on this and they need to abstain? If not, I will go forward. Okay, great. This is a quasi judicial proceeding where the Board of Commissioners acts in a quasi judicial rather than a legislative capacity at a quasi judicial hearing. It is not the Board of commissioners function to make law, but rather to apply the law that has already been established in a quasi judicial hearing. The board is required by law to make findings of fact upon the evidence presented at the hearing, and apply those findings of fact to previously established criteria in the city's code in order to make a legal decision regarding the application before it. The board may only consider evidence at this hearing that the law considers competent, substantial, and relevant to the issue. This evidence can come from professional staff, the applicants, experts, or possibly lay witnesses if based on factual knowledge. If the competent, substantial and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has met the criteria established in the code, then the board is required by law to find in favor of the applicant. By the same token, if the competent, substantial and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has failed to meet the criteria established in the Code of Ordinance, then the board is required by law to find against the applicant. Next, in a quasi judicial hearing, the state law allows for the public and others to meet with you all as decision makers, but that is considered by definition an ex parte communication. You are you are essentially quasi judges. To rectify that situation, to cure any potential prejudice to the applicant or anyone, you would disclose any any ex parte communications, whether they're communications, your own outside research, visiting the site. And it's important that you put that into the record on this item. So does anyone have any ex parte communications that they want to reveal on the record? One second. None. None. But we had a planning and zoning board. We had a planning and zoning board, and there were people here from our commission at the Planning and Zoning Board. So that would be so true. Yes. If you attended, if you attended that meeting and it gave you insight into this, you need to just disclose that you're at that meeting. That was. None. Okay. The other thing is what about if you saw it on the planning and zoning? Anything that is that would that the applicant or anybody that is a party to this needs to know that they wouldn't know otherwise that you have gained knowledge in some other way other than the published material that are part of the record that you read, then you need to disclose it. I watched the meeting. Great. Thank you. Anybody else on this item? Okay, great. So, any also anyone who's going to testify here today also needs to do so under oath. That includes your own professional planning staff. And at this time, anyone who is going to testify on this item, please stand and raise your right hand. All right. I see everyone. Do you swear to tell the truth? The whole truth and nothing but the truth? All right, that's the right answer. Excellent So with that, Mr. Vice Vice Mayor, you have the, operations of this as staff go first. And the applicant, and you open it up for public comment, staff will go first, and we'll have comments for staff. Then the applicant will have. Yes, yes, exactly. Miss Vincent, good evening, vice mayor, commissioners Rene Vincent, planning and zoning director, this is application 23 156. This is a site plan review application for, a I'll call it a commercial seafood fishing operation, for property at 599 Island Drive, historically, there's been similar uses on this property in the past. If you've been here for quite a while, you would remember, I think I may have owned this property and they had commercial crabbing there at one point in time, but, so the applicant is proposing, basically a commercial fishing, not processing, but taking fish on board, bringing them in package them and then reselling them out to and shipping them out to other operations, the property contains about 0.2 acres, and is largely, you know, semi developed at this point in time, this is the location out here, this is your this is Dodecanese Boulevard, this is Island Drive, the just the showing, the specific transect district, the SDB, which is a waterfront commercial district, and this is the aerial photograph to show the site. This is the house that's here that hasn't been used in a house in many, many years. It's vacant, inside, and you see the commercial dockage, just a street level view of the site, some additional views here, the adjacent residents on the, on the left side, on your screen will be buffered with a six foot privacy fence. Again, this is the vacant house, just some other shots of the of the area, you know, kind of the nature of the area. Commercial crabbing, This is just a shot showing you kind of the, the truck route and typical morning truck traffic in and out, this is a survey just overlaying the, aerial photograph on the property. So the site plan, you have commercial dockage, they are proposing to have a small loading area, directly off of Island Drive. They're also providing for. And there's another slide for this to be able to accommodate the larger trucks off of Dodecanese Boulevard. This will be a reinforced concrete, and drive area, a parking lot with four parking spots for the, for the, to the for the workers. This is not open to the public, so there's no, no need to really provide parking for general retail purposes, a pole barn will be put in here. It'll be open air to be part of the processing. And then they're proposing to add some additional, refrigeration units on the site and all that will have to meet building code, this is the showing the truck maneuverability for the larger trucks, this kind of off street loading area. Again, they've indicated that maybe 1 to 2 times per week, they would need, to, to use that type of, truck access, for the site plan review criteria. Again, we've reviewed this through the City Technical review Committee, on multiple occasions. And there are no issues with the site plan approval. There is, two designs, two design standards that we are requesting to be adjusted by warrant. One is for the parking. And actually this calls out that it has to be by warrant because there's no set parking requirement for this particular district. The second is, typically there would be a street screen along masking the area along the frontage. But since this is commercial fishing, and it's more of an industrial operation, we're recommending approval to waive that frontage street screen since it just doesn't work with the entire operation of the property, and it's recognized through the, through that particular transect. District staff recommendation is to, approve this did go to two readings or two hearings with the planning and zoning Board, the, the recommendation and the project's been revised to reflect some additional between those two readings. Some additional things that we wanted to be included on the site plan. Those have been, site data tables been updated, utility availability statements been submitted, the drainage issues have all been resolved and the reinforced apron has been added to accommodate that larger truck traffic. So staff recommendation is to approve with conditions relating to meeting flood code requirements, fire code requirements, connection utility connection requirements are standard. Construction plans have to be submitted consistent with the approved site plan. All Land Development Code requirements must be met in the site. Plan would expire within six months. Planning and Zoning Board reviewed this for the second time at their August 19th agenda, with six members present, and they recommended approval by unanimous vote. So with that, I'll stop and answer any questions you may have. Commissioner Eisner. Thank you, Vice Mayor, was there an issue, with the pickup truck extending too far into the street? I pick up truck. No not as presently designed. So it was readdressed. It was. So how was that? Readdressed between first and second active actions by the Planning and Zoning Board that was addressed. So there I mean, they've added, if you look at the screen, I can point it out for you. They have added for the large trucks coming in. They have added, a pull off area. This will all be reinforced concrete. So for the 1 to 2 times a week that they may need that large truck access, they can pull completely off of Island Drive and not obstruct traffic. Otherwise, the smaller trucks, have a compliant loading area in front of the house. So, and I know this is a little bit off base, but I know there was a contentious, comments about the truck blocking the road. But then or do we have other issues with other trucks blocking the road in general in the area? Yes. We've had previous discussions, but no, I mean, it's a you know, I just didn't understand why we moved this particular truck to have a different type of pickup location, you know, than the other trucks that are blocking that road. This was a solution to a problem. And we did not want Island Drive, you know, obstructed any more than is necessary. So by this alteration it provides a complete off site, you know, beside the road. But it's not blocking Island Drive. So for the times that they do need to have that larger truck access, no further questions. Any other commissioner questions for staff. Does the applicant have any questions for staff? You're turning all your report in. And yes. Yes. Submit report and presentation into the record. Thank you. Okay Now the applicant want to come forward, give their presentation. My name is Greg Presby. I'm with Transit Systems engineering, 565 South Hercules Avenue, Clearwater, I appreciate the, detailed report there. We don't have anything else to add. I'm with the property owner here. If you guys have any questions, please let us know. Thank you. Commissioner. Comments for the applicant. Okay. Now back to the commission, then. Public comment. Public comment at this point, yes. Public comments please. On on this application. Are there any it zoom comments online. Hearing none. Back to the Commission for a motion. Second. All right. Any further discussion? Roll call please. Mr. DiDonato. Yes. Mr. Giuliani's. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Yes Item 16 is resolution 202426. Conditional use approval for property located at 438 Athens Street. Application 24 Dash 48. This is a quasi judicial judicial hearing. Thank you. This is a resolution of the Board of Commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, approving application 24 Dash 48 requesting conditional use approval to allow the conversion of an existing structure to a single family dwelling at 438 Athens Street, lot 26, in the WDI Waterfront Development District Zoning District, providing for findings, providing for conditions and providing for an effective date, before we get started, just want to ask whether anybody has any conflicts with this item with any need to abstain. Yes, I have a conflict, my wife owns property less than 45ft from the subject property. So I'd like to abstain from, from voting all right. So. So the procedure for that, you've already made your announcement in the record. So, what you need to fill out a form that the clerk can give you. And if you would, probably the appropriate way would be for you to step out, so that the remainder of the commissioners can handle this matter. Thank you. All right. I am going to read again, this is a quasi judicial proceeding where the board acts in a quasi judicial rather than a legislative capacity at a quasi judicial hearing. It is not the board's function to make law, but rather to apply law that has already been established in a quasi judicial hearing. The board is required by law to make findings of fact based on evidence presented at the hearing, and apply those facts, those findings of fact, to previously established criteria in the city's code in order to make a legal decision regarding the application before it. The board may only consider evidence at this hearing that the law considers competent, substantial and relevant issue relevant to the issues. This evidence can come from professional staff, the applicant's experts, or possibly lay persons based on factual knowledge if the competent, substantial, relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has met the criteria established in the code, the. Then the board is required by law to find in favor of the applicant. By the same token, if the competent, substantial, and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has failed to meet the criteria established in the code, then the board is required by law to find against the applicant. So at this point, then we would ask for any ex parte disclosures and then we'll swear in witnesses. Yes, I did speak to Miss Collins. It was just by phone in which I did have her direct. Any questions she had for me, I directed straight to city staff and which they started working with her on the process. Okay. And I did watch the planning and Zoning board again. Okay Okay. Great. Excellent So I will swear in the witnesses at this time, anyone who is going to testify before the board on this item, please stand and raise your right hand. Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth I do. All right, good answer. Start with staff. All right, staffs, presentation, please. Thank you. This is application 24 Dash 48. This is a conditional use request to essentially kind of convert an existing, you know, storefront that's been vacant for quite some time. One story building, on at 438 Athens Street to a residential use single family residential use. The property is zoned WD one. As such, single family is does is required to have a conditional use review for compatibility with the area location and context. As I said, it's 438 Athens. As I said, this is in the WD one, which is a commercial waterfront zoning district, that we don't have a lot of land left. WD one anymore, but this area of Athens Street still maintains that designation. So joined by residential multifamily, and on on one side and are 60 single one and two family on the south side. And just a little bit larger area context. So the existing again it's just a small one story building, that was a, I believe a bakery at one point in time, there's a drive down the side of the, of the building to get access to the rear of the property. So there's adequate off street parking for a single family home, this is just the WD one zoning district showing that, the permitted uses, as well as the permitted uses on the site, this is the site photo, so it has been vacant for some time, and again, they wish to renovate this into a single family residence. It's just kind of looking around the area a little bit, there are some. The property was built in 1960. There's some architectural features that are, I won't say unique, but they're indicative of the, the style, you know, the recessed storefront, you know, the display windows, the transo, so we, you know, we call those out since this is identified, it is in the Greektown National Register Historic, place. And it is identified as a contributing structure there. So we wanted to identify what those, architectural features would be, the really the only, conditional use criteria that would be of interest is the impact to historical or environmental resources, as I've already stated. It's a it is a contributing resource to that district. However, there are no design standards currently for that district, but all the other conditional use criteria, we have a positive finding, in our staffing, the preliminary recommendation is to approve the conditional use, with two conditions. One is that, you know, the a building permit for the basically the conversion to single family must be obtained within one year, and kept active, the second is, the scale and massing of the building and the defining architectural features of the buildings. Front facade, shall be maintained, this does not include the attached wood side. New doors and windows may be located on the sides and rear of the structure, and should be appropriately scaled and styled to conform with the storefront vernacular, we did present this, at the planning and Zoning Board, on August 19th, and the board recommended approval by A60 vote. So with that, I'll stop and answer any questions you may have. Any commissioner comments for staff, Mr. Eisner? Thank you, vice Mayor, question. Is this property have the proper setbacks, it is an existing nonconforming for residential. It would be non-conforming in its existing situation. No. So it's a no, right? Okay Because one of the criteria, it says that the conditional use will not adversely affect the adjoining property values, but it does. I disagree this this has been sitting vacant. You know, in its current footprint, whether it's operating as a retail with busy going in and out or as a single family residence. I don't do not believe is going to adversely impact good or bad. You know, the retail value, the surrounding property values. That's my opinion. Okay. So number six states the conditional use will not adversely impact nor exceed the capacity or fiscal ability of the city to provide public facilities, transportation, water and sewer. Okay. But drainage, it would. Because it's on top of another property. Is that correct? It's an existing building that's being converted from one use to another. It's an adaptive reuse, okay. It's not required to provide drainage. Anything more than what's already there. Will this be a one story or a two story? One story? They have to maintain the structure. So is there any rulings on since that is a flood area and everything that's now being built on there is has to be two stories. No, it would have to comply with FEMA regulations and get a certificate of occupancy as a single family residence. So it will have that. Our floodplain manager has reviewed it. They will have to comply with FEMA regulations one way or another. That was the question. Yes. The answer I was looking for. Yeah. I have no further questions. Thank you, any further comments? No. Does the applicant have any comments for or questions for Miss Vincent and staff? Good evening. I don't have any comments other than the adjacent property. Could you give us your name, please? Thank you, we would like to, do whatever it takes to make sure we're in compliance and make sure that it complements the charm of the rest of the neighborhood. And that property does lean on the on the adjacent property, which is. That's the sun. And then the mother lives next door. But that's, if that was a concern, it's mother and son. But other than that, that's it. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Collins. Are there any public comments on this application. Hearing none. I t are there any zoom comments online? Anyone online would like to make a public comment? Please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. Back to the commission for a motion. So moved. Second. No further comments. Roll call please. Mr. DiNardo. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes, vice mayor coleus. Yes. Might. Commissioner Collins. No. No Commissioner. Giuliano's. Item 17 is resolution 202430. Conditional use approval and site plan approval for property located at 525 Hill Street. Application 24 Dash 46. This is a quasi judicial hearing to allow the Commissioner to take his seat so make sure everybody's seated. All right. Great. Thank you, this is a resolution of the Board of commissioners of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, approving applications 24 dash 46 requesting conditional use approval and site plan approval to allow for surface parking lot at 525 Hill Street. Thank you for that. And the T5C, did help me out here to Dawson Avenue main Street, I'm going to take my I'm going to go to school on this one, street transect district providing for findings, providing for conditions, providing for an effective date promise. You will get all this straight sooner or later, okay. Let me read the script here for you, this is a quasi judicial proceedings where the board acts in a quasi judicial rather than a legislative capacity at a quasi judicial hearing. It is not the board's function to make law, but rather to apply law that has already been established in a quasi judicial hearing. The board is required by law to make findings of fact based upon the evidence presented at the hearing, and apply those facts to previously established criteria in the city's code in order to make a legal decision regarding the application before it. The board may only consider evidence at this hearing that the law considers competent, substantial, and relevant to the issues. This evidence can come in the form of professional staff, applicants, experts, the possibly and possibly lay witness testimony based on factual knowledge. If the competent, substantial, and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has met the criteria established in the Code of Ordinance, then the board is required by law to find in favor of the applicant by the same token, if the competent, substantial and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrate that the applicant has failed to meet the criteria established in the code. Then the board is required by by law to find against the applicant, with the same, same thing. If anyone has a conflict, they need to state that now. Okay. I see none then. Then we have to do ex part, disclosures. Any ex parte disclosures from members of the board, planning and Zoning boar. I watched, all right. Planning and zoning board. He watched anybody else? Anybody? None. Okay great. So with that, we are going to swear in any witnesses that are going to testify here, including city's own professional staff. Raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Awesome, great. It's all yours, sir. All right, Miss Rene Vincent, for presentation from staff. Thank you. This is application 24, Dash 46 for conditional use and site plan approval. The city of Tarpon Springs is the applicant on this request. This is city owned property located at 525 Hill Street. This property historically has been informally used as a parking lot, for quite some time, as you know, the city did purchase this property along with some other vacant property immediately adjacent. And then set about, through a temporary use process establishing a more formal parking lot on the site. The purpose of this action tonight is a formal site plan. And conditional use approval to have this, parking lot be established as a permanent parking lot, and no longer is a temporary parking lot. So there are some upgrades, from its temporary use. Locationally, this is, this is Dodecanese Boulevard. The roundabout at the end, this was the property, if you recall. It was also a hotel site at one point in time, this property did get acquired through referendum by the city, just some, locational, you know, it's across from the marine industrial district, a lot of vacant land around it, and then this is in the T5C Dodecanese, Avenue, main Street district, just another aerial photograph of the site before the city. Put some initial improvements in, so today it functions as a temporary parking lot, you can see the handicapped parking has been provided. There's a semi pervious, base on there with parking stops, to delineate, where people are allowed to park. This is the overall site plan. So again, some of this is still is already existing, this will formalize the, the drainage and everything for the site, ensure that and ensure that it meets, the landscaping requirements, they also propose to put in a future sandbag site. Here on the corner, but for all intents and purposes, it will continue to operate the way it's been operating for, since the city. Reestablished it as a parking lot, as a temporary parking lot. And just another view of the site. The conditional use review criteria. Again, we have, eight criteria that have to be observed. We've reviewed all of them and do not find any, adverse issues with the conditional use criteria, nor do we find any issues with the site plan review criteria, the staff recommendation is to approve, we do have three recommended conditions. They do need to have a we do need to have a bicycle rack that meets the design standards of the sponge docks and CRA, smart code, the construction plans have to be submitted consistent with the approved site plan. And in that site plan will expire in six months. If we don't get approved, construction plans signed and sealed, I'm reasonably sure that that's ready to go, we did our public notice. We've received no correspondence on this issue. Planning and Zoning Board did review this on August 19th and recommended approval. There was some discussion regarding some additional suggestions, and these were added. Recommended for approval to be added to this to the, to the site to provide some signage stating rules for use of the parking lot, including no parking of recreational vehicles and no overnight parking, and to provide some additional directional signage to notify people coming into the Sponge Docks area that the city lots available. So, those were not, we didn't formally add those to the resolution, did we? No. So these were just recommendations, but not formally added to the resolution, with that, I'll stop and answer any questions you might have. And we also have our engineer here who did the design work on the on the site plan. Any comments from the board for or questions from the board for staff? I don't think we as the applicant can. So are there any public comments on this item? It are there any zoom comments online? If anyone online would like to make a public comment, please raise your hand and you'll be allowed into talk. And we do not have any raised hands at this time. All right. We accept the presentation into the record. Thank you, Miss Vincent, the chair will entertain a motion. So moved. Second. If there are no further comments, roll call, please. Mr. DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner. Persis? Yes Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor Coolio's. Yes Item 18 is ordinance 202406 future land use map amendment for property located at 42501 US highway 19, North. Application 20 2-02. First reading. All right. Thank you very much. This is ordinance, 2020 4-06, an ordinance of the City of Tarpon Springs, Florida, amending the future land use map of the city of Tarpon Springs, Florida, for a portion of the 64.17 acres, more or less of real property located at 242501 US highway 19 North on the east side of US highway 19 North, that portion being 36.64 acres, more or less in size from future land use map designation are slash OG, which is residential office general to CG, which is commercial general and P which is preservation to the future land use map designation R slash OS recreation. Open space and P preservation providing for findings. Providing for effective date, so what we have here is not a quasi the opposite of a quasi judicial, almost because quasi judicial is the application of policy, as I said. So your comprehensive plan is your ultimate planning policy. So part of your comprehensive plan is your future land use map, it is incorporated in that. So when you are amending your future land use map, you are essentially establishing policy. So that's why this is an ordinance. It's legislative, not quasi judicial, and it will require two readings, I do want to, state a couple of things, a couple other things that, you know, this is driven by state law. So under section chapter 163, part two that defines like how you amend your comprehensive plan. And within that 163 .31 84, which is entitled the process for adoption of Comprehensive Plan or Plan amendments, it does allow for a, it defines what an affected person is. And I bring that up only because, the organization that's represented by attorney, attorney Jane Graham, who's here in the audience, has requested time to speak here today. And then the statute contemplates, a very specific way for people to demonstrate whether they are an affected person should they decide later on to appeal that. So I would, I would encourage you to afford her the not not she doesn't need an enormous amount of time, but at least enough time to put her, oral or written comment, recommendation or objections into the record. This did go through your local planning agency, which is your planning and zoning board, and it will be here before you for two readings. This reading. And once it comes back to you for adoption. So, anyone who chooses to, want to speak to that in the public, has all those opportunities to do that. So with that, I would just say that, you know, with regard to the letter that was received by Miss Graham and pardon me, I don't remember what organization she represents. You know, I would I would afford her some time to be able to statutorily make the case that she wants to make. Okay. Sure. Any questions about that? All right. Sorry I took up your time, ma'am. Oh, all right. Thank you, this is ordinance 2024, dash zero six. This is a future land use map amendment. For property within the site of the larger 64 roughly acre site. Known as Anclote Harbors, it is a residential plan development. That has approved preliminary and final, development plans that are active on the site. And, there were for the final plan development there were was a very long list of conditions of approval, one of them speaks directly to this particular application, there was a requirement to, amend a certain portion of area that's identified. As, significant upland habitat to set that aside and to preserve it. As well as to essentially, ground truth and adjust all the wetland lines on the property based on an actual wetland survey. So that's the application that's before you specifically, we have areas of commercial, general and residential office, general, and some existing preservation that would be amended to recreation, open space and preservation. So this is the overall site on us 19. So this is the this will be a little bit difficult to read, or see at this scale. But this is the overall approved final development plan. What you're seeing in the orange are the areas that are proposed to be amended to recreation, open space, and then what you can't see as well are there's also wetland lines on here that will, be adjusted to properly reflect the actual wetlands and changing those to preservation. So the, the areas of, the areas of longleaf pine and oak habitat that are going to be preserved are shown in the orange site, orange area. And that's the rec open space area, and again, as I stated, there was also, a requirement to adjust the existing preservation category on the on the future land use map to accurately accurately reflect the extent of the wetlands to remain on site. So this is the future land use map as it sits today, this is the commercial general, and preservation areas, where this is the residential office general. And then you've got some preservation areas here. So these lines will all adjust based on the actual, wetland lines as well as the area identified to be set aside to recreation open space. So currently we have about 42 acres in commercial, general and residential office, 14 acres in preservation, and eight acres was undesignated, they're just blanks on the map. And so the proposed future land use, you will have 27.5 acres remaining in commercial General, which is the purple and residential office. General. This other lighter purple color, 14.5 acres of recreation, open space and that is the light green area. And then 22 acres of expanded or adjusted preservation category. And that's the darker green areas. So this is the final disposition based on the on the ordinance of what the future land use map will look like, under our consistency review, we do find that this is consistent with the recreation open space category and the preservation categories, again, the, you know, this was a condition of the final plan development, so we are moving along with that as, as was directed, it's important to note that you're not obligated to approve it, but denial does not. You know, it would. You know, that's doesn't stop the development from happening. And if it if it is denied, more importantly, if it's approved and if the development never happens that recreation, open space and those preservations are now permanently on the map, and would have to come back to the board for some sort of an amendment to try to utilize them in the future, if that were to take place, our staff recommendation is to approve ordinance 2020 406, amending 36.64 acres from commercial general residential, office, general and preservation to recreation, open space and preservation, the Planning and Zoning Board did review this on August 19th, it was approved with a four two vote, there were two members that dissented, there was public comment on the item, that was provided in the agenda packet, it was both a written comment, Miss Graham's letter, and then some materials that were handed out by one person who spoke. So all that's been provided in the agenda packet, with that, I'll stop and answer any questions that you might have. Thank you. Commissioner Eisner, thank you, vice mayor. In the report, there was something that said there was a current biotech report. Did you see that at all? The biotech report's been. That's the biotech that's been in existence? No, there was the there was a comment that said there was a current biotech report on the Eagles. RV yeah. During the during the plan development process, there was a there was a biotech report, you know, on the site there's nothing nothing's been updated other than, you know, the, the, the, the full wetland boundary has been verified at this point. Okay. I mean, I did see that there was a biotech report on for 221, but there was also another line that said that there was a follow up and a biotech report current. So was that the mispronunciation in the staff report? It definitely said current. So I just didn't see the report. That's all I was going to ask you. Then it's a three year old report. We're looking at. Which I wrote down where I saw it. It may have been in the applicant's narrative. Yeah but I don't think it's in our staff room. Staff report. So let me see. Because I read through everything and I did see it. There was a current report. And if you don't, you know, without a date, you don't you don't know what that current means that that that's in the applicant's narrative, not ours. So I'll defer that to the applicant. Okay. I'll remember that. So my next question then to you is why are we approving this? What is the city to gain by us approving this? So you're getting 14 plus acres as permanent recreation open space on the future land use map. So one again, I have to if you take the approach or the thought process, if the applicant walks away and this project is never built, that recreation open space stays on the future land use map. So the only thing that could ever happen in that piece of the property are recreation, open space. It takes residential completely off of the table, and because the property is predominantly in coastal high hazard area, you probably would never be able to increase density. Put density back on that 14 acres again. So there is a benefit to the city long term as the project develops, if it does develop, then it is again, it's putting in place recreation, preserving the rec. Open that rec open space area preserves those habitat, that habitat, along with the conservation easement that's also required not part of the discussion tonight, but the conservation easement was a requirement. So it again, it permanently puts that on the map. So it's better to get it while we can I guess is the answer. But the one of the comments in there is denial of the, you know, future land map amendment would not affect the current deal, which I understand, but it would affect a future development. If the current one is not realized, why would we be approving something in another deal without the whole deal coming back before us? It would have to come back before you. My point is the once you change the land use designation to recreation, open space on for that, for that piece of the property, it's going to take a land use map amendment to change it back. And for the long haul, it's much more limited than what can happen on the site, and it takes residential density out of the coastal high hazard area for the future. And you probably can't put it back on there because of the situation of the land. So I have no further questions. Commissioner Koulianos. So, Renee, let me ask you why why wasn't this land use amendment addressed when the project was first approved? It was it was put as a condition of approval, as part of the plan development process, rather than processing it simultaneously, I, I don't have a better answer for you than that, it just is. It just is, you know, sometimes you would have a development agreement in this case, we don't have that, it was a planned development process, which was which does allow conditions on the site. Okay. So tonight is a yes no on this amendment. This this isn't a negotiation on this. Land use amendment. Correct? It is. They are fulfilling a requirement by the plan development to submit this for recreation, open space, land use. It was a very specific requirement in the list of conditions on the final plan. Development And as you say, it was it was a condition specified like this. Correct. Exact, yes. Land use amendment is what was agreed upon, correct? Okay. So again I go to this is a yes no to this amendment. Correct I would say yes because otherwise you would have to. The only way you can change a condition would have to agree the only way you can change a condition of approval would be to come back and amend the whole, the whole plan development process. So Right. And, okay, so tonight again, this is a yes no on this amendment, you know, unless the applicant wants to do something different, the applicant wants to change it. It's a yes or no on this amendment. Right. So and if I could, just to make it clear on the record that the only requirement was to file the application and present it to you before you, you didn't negotiate away your, your vote here, so you're not compelled to vote one way or the other. It's just the so you didn't contract away that and you approved it. It was just, set to be put in front of you. Okay. So you're not compelled one way or the other to vote as you say? Yes. Or you can still vote yes or no. Right. But what I'm trying to say is you didn't compel yourself, when you approved the development to approve this, right? Which would then be a no. If you don't approve it, it's a no. Yeah. You can vote no or yes. Or you could ask the applicant, are you would you be interested in changing this to that? But I think at that point you may have to look at the conditions and how the conditions of that PD were, were structured. I don't I don't have that. But what's really before you is just a flume change future land use map change. So if we vote no tonight, then more of this land is commercial than otherwise, correct? Correct. Okay And. And rezoning a property after a permit has already been issued beyond this is unusual, right? Like it's not a rezoning. Well, no. It's a land use map amendment. Right. But is it it's not unusual to have conditions of approval. With a planned development, you would more typically see something like this with a development agreement. No, I get that. But Well, I'll address that later. When, Miss Graham gets up, those are my only questions for now. Thanks I have no comments or questions. Public comments. Are there any public comments? Do you want the applicant to come forward first? Oh, yes. Yes, yes. Okay Good evening. Jamie. Mayor of the law firm, Hill Ward Henderson, representing the applicant, 101 East Kennedy Boulevard, suite 3700, and Tampa, I don't want to restate what's already been very well stated by staff, thank you again. Staff for the excellent staff report, we do find this worthy of approval and consistent with the comprehensive plan. I just have a few general comments. We do understand that Miss Jane Graham has requested intervenor status. We presume that is a request for standing, we have maintained in all prior proceedings that, Miss Jane Graham's client does not have standing, and no court has affirmatively ruled that they do, we're also aware, as you heard earlier, that there was the, excuse me, there was the Fish and Wildlife who came out to the site. They did review. They stayed there for an hour looking at the soil investigation. They didn't find anything wrong. They found it totally in compliance and they left. So I just wanted to raise that, and then Miss Trapani had a few other comments. Thank you. And just so I could make it perfectly clear, I'm not. I'm not. I didn't state that, Miss Graham should be given intervenor status because that would be more appropriate to a quasi judicial proceedings. All I did was suggest that she is seeking to be an affected party. So to be given time to speak since she is representing a group. But I'm not suggesting that she be, given or anointed or made a party to this. Sorry Thank you, Mr. Vice Mayor and members of the Commission, Cindy Trapani. Trapani planning strategies at 128 East Tarpon Avenue. I am the authorized agent, along with Miss Meyer, for the applicant. Morgan, I just want to answer perhaps some question that Commissioner Collins was was describing. It is a little unusual to come back with a plan. Amendment after the project has already been approved in full and the reason for that is during the process that the project was approved and we had several approvals, but as part of that process, we had always envisioned that when we had a wetland map approved by Swiftmud, that we would come back to the city and have the city recognize those preservation areas as those wetlands, as preservation on your future land use map. So that's part of what we're doing tonight. The other part is, as we were going through the public hearing process, the staff suggested that part of our, the southeast peninsula where we had proposed a walking trail and some exercise equipment that are recreation uses that that be designated as, you know, preserved as recreation, and then during the public hearing Commission, process, I believe it was, Commissioner Vatikiotis who was commissioner at the time, requested that all of the lands that were not being used for development, that had no buildings, no stormwater, no parking, that all of those significant upland areas be designated as open space. Again, these are upland areas. They are not wet. So we have two parts of our application tonight. One is to maintain those upland areas in perpetuity as rec open space that does not allow residential buildings. And then number two is to recognize the 22 acres of wetlands that we have throughout the site. And that wetland line has been approved by Swiftmud. As you know, that's the only authority that approves wetland. And this is kind of interesting, just to give you a little bit of context to and in 2000, the city approved a plan amendment to put preservation on the site. It was part of the ABR project, which a project that preceded the Walmart site. It was even preceded in this case as well. And the ordinance that adopted, adopted that plan amendment to put preservation stated. And I quote, the distribution of KG and P was preservation at the time is shown graphically on exhibit A. It is based upon preliminary wetland jurisdictional information, preliminary wetland information prepared by King Engineering Associates of Clearwater, and is subject to minor adjustment without further amendment. In accordance with an Environmental Resources Management Permit issued by Swiftmud. Well, that's exactly what happened. As part of this project, we submitted an Swiftmud, approved a specific delineation of the wetlands, which showed where they are exactly and how many acres. It's about 22 acres. And then we submitted that wetland survey, along with the other part that we just talked about to the city to recognize the wetlands as preservation. So as Miss Meyer stated, and your staff has stated, there's a couple of reasons to approve it. Number one is it was a part of our original approval in the RPD. We committed that we would submit it. We have submitted it. We do hope you will approve it. We think it's appropriate to recognize all of our wetlands with the preservation plan category of 22 acres and 14 acres of the site would go to recreation, open space that can never be built with residential uses unless a future commission comes back and changes that. And as Miss Vincent stated, an amendment to the future land use map is a very serious analytical discussion to be done and may or may not be approved, but it it takes the future development off that property in perpetuity, which already is consistent with the site plan that we have approved. So that's a little bit of a longer explanation. I hope you find it helpful. I'm happy to answer any of your other questions, and I thank you very much for your attention tonight. There any questions from the Commission for the applicant? Commissioner Eisner? So, I, Mr. Penny. Good evening, Commissioner. The question that I have is still about this biotech report. I'm trying to find it and listening, but it was clearly stated that there was a current biotech report, and it also had a comment that the last biotech report, it was on the, the I think it was the gulf of turtles, and that was one biotech report. And the other biotech report was on the Eagles and the one on the Eagles. They said that there has been no, sightings and no new, nesting in the new biotech report. Okay. Well, but I don't see it. Well, okay. I can refer you to. It's on page nine of the applicant's narrative that was submitted with the plan amendment. It's a it's a response to the conservation element goals, objectives and policies. And it references a biotech report that was done in 2021, we have not done an updated biotech. Biotech is not updated. The either the gopher tortoise survey or the eagle for the eagle. We already have a take permit, which means that we cannot take the nest down. We cannot harm that nest, but we're required to set back during construction and not build during some times of the year because of eagle nesting. And then we were required to set back from that area. That's why we have, although we don't have the site plan in front of us. The area the nest is along, excuse me, along the river. And that area is where our stormwater ponds are. So we will not be required to update the Eagle nest, because that's been approved. That's that orange that Miss Vincent is pointing to, that that whole area is being, well, first of all, it's going to rec open space is the request. And then second of all, it's basically stormwater. And part of it is stormwater. And then the rest of it is recreation, open space, we will have to update the gopher tortoise survey, and biotech is the right consultant that does that, but there's a very short time frame or short expiration on gopher tortoise studies. I think it's 60 or 90 days. So we really don't they don't do that study until we're really, really ready to put equipment on the site and start constructing. So we're well aware that we do have to update that study. The city is well aware we will do that study when we're prior to constructing on the site. This is off the beaten path a little bit because it's not this, but I still want to ask, how is it that the Army Corps of Engineers didn't get to do the jurisdictional determination? And it was given over to Swiftmud? Do you know, as far as I know, Swiftmud is the jurisdiction only jurisdiction in Florida. There's other water management management districts, but in our area, Swiftmud is the only authority that sets wetland lines. Okay. Oh, the only reason I asked that is because I know there was the Army Corps of Engineers gave it over to Swiftmud and Swiftmud then is in from what I've seen in court with I know they were fined for not not they should not have been allowed to be making those decisions. I mean, it has nothing to do with this particular. Yeah, it really doesn't have anything to do this application. I just was curious because you're here, so I figured I'd ask that question. It's a little out of my area of expertise. I don't deal with swiftmud on a daily basis. And how that issue is working its way with the Army Corps and Swiftmud. I'm really not aware. Okey dokey. I can't find what you just said, but I know I read it, it's on there. It's not in line, it's the applicant. I don't know what item it is on the staff thing, but it's the applicant's narrative, it's page. I believe it was page seven. Okay Excuse me, it was page nine. I misread the number. Page nine. It actually doesn't say that there's an updated report. It does not say that there's an updated report. It refers to the study that was done and that those studies were done during the RPD site plan process. That's already been approved. Okay Any further questions for the applicant. And then we would reserve some time for rebuttal. If there are opponents. Thank you. Thank you again for the record, I just want to clarify, I understand that the suggestion was not from the city attorney, that Miss Graham was an intervenor, but we do object to the request that she made for intervenor status. So I just wanted to clarify that. Thank you. Okay. Are there any public comments on this application? City attorney just helped me with what? So I think what the appropriate thing to do is just to establish Miss Graham represents an organization and, maybe establish with consensus of the commission how much time you would like to allocate to her. Keeping in mind this is not quasi-judicial. There's not going to be cross-examination. There's not going to be any of that. So maybe you would want to have a dialog with her to find out how much time she needs. Right Mr. Graham, how much time do you think you need? Good evening, Vice Mayor. I would request 15 minutes, but I don't think it's going to be that much. It should be less than that. That's that's okay with me. As long as the rest of the commission agrees to it. I'm fine with that. Yep. 15 minutes, ma'am. Thank you. Thank you, vice mayor, and also commission. I have a PowerPoint, but it appears that it may not be able to be posted. So I do have printed copies of my presentation. I'm going to give a copy to Miss Mayor, and I'd like to give it to all of you as well. And to confirm, can I is there any kind of, like a screen? I can put this up? Oh, okay. I don't believe they have a visualizer. That's what you had requested, but. Right. I'm not sure. Okay, well. Good evening. Commission. My name is Jane Graham of Sunshine City la. I represent concerned citizens of tarpon Springs, also known as Friends of Anclote River. We're here tonight because we have some comments and objections on what you're looking at tonight. First of all, I think that your new city attorney, Mr. Dickman, did a really good job of explaining that this is a legislative decision that you're making tonight. This is policy. A comprehensive plan amendment is based on adequate data and analysis, and the burden is on the applicant to show that they have provided that applicant data and analysis. Local governments have broad discretion to legislate based on health, safety and public welfare. And courts do uphold your land use decisions when it's rationally related and not arbitrary or capricious. And so something that I will mention and I know Miss Mayor's firm is familiar with this case. Pinellas County v Rickman Group of Florida, that resident opposition motivated by legitimate concerns, provides a rational basis for legislative land use decisions and must be considered in your process. I'd also like to have you take a look at Florida statute 163 3170 71F, which again requires that plan amendments are based upon relevant and appropriate data and analysis of local that the local government may include. So tonight we want to parse out what you're actually voting on and make it clear because you have a couple of things that are kind of mashed together saying, oh, approve it up or down. It's not that simple. We want to parse it out for you. First of all, there's a plan amendment parcel number three, which is 22.0078 acres of wetlands being changed from CG ROG to preservation. This is good. This complies with the requirements to look at what lands as preservation. We ask you to approve that portion of this request tonight. Put that off to the side clean. It's good. The 22.0078 acres. Parcels one and two are ambiguous as to what they actually are asking you to do. And we're asking you to deny the changes within the planned amendment, which downgrade the preservation lands to recreation. Open space. It's too vague, and it lacks the safeguards as to how vulnerable lands that buffer the Anclote River are going to be protected. I ask you how many acres that are currently in preservation are being changed to recreation open space? This information has not actually been provided to you. Another thing I'd like to mention is that the staff report at page eight actually says that this downgrade from preservation to recreational open space is unnecessary. It says it is noted that the preservation of upland and wetland habitat are required component of the approved plan. Development and current RPD and resolution, and the habitat preservation requirement is enforced independent of the final status of the current plume amendment request. Okay, so ask yourself what is the Delta of preservation acres that are currently preserved that are being lost to recreation open space? I've given you all a copy of this and this is it. This is from the staff report in their presentation. This is the current land use versus the proposed land use. And if you look up there, you see that here, the dark green that's preservation. And here that's preservation. And a large chunk of that is being proposed to being changed to recreation open space. You don't have an acreage number of how much preservation acres are being lost. I urge you, the applicant has the burden to tell you data, best available data, and that isn't even in front of you right now. So that's very important. The other picture I've provided you this is from Google Earth to give a perspective of what you're looking at. And if you look at that upper portion and this is also mentioned by Miss Vincent, that this is longleaf long pine xeric oak habitat. That's upland habitat that's valuable environmental habitat up there. And also down there. Commissioner Eisner was talking about a biotech report. Well, I have a picture from the biotech consulting report from May 5th, 2020 that shows where the Eagle nests are on site and they are up here in the preservation area. And they have a buffer of 330 and 660. And I ask you what they're asking you again to do is open up this area that is currently preservation and turning it into recreational. What is that doing for you? What what is the benefit to this to the city to degrade this type of protection? Looking back in history, former Mayor Donato was here for this in 1999 when the property was was originally designated as preservation. It was 11.5 acres on site, so that's what is preservation. And so if there's a transformation of 14 point something acres to a recreational open space, what is that Delta? Are you losing 11.5 acres of preservation that information isn't clear. That's something that you need to really clarify before you can vote on this tonight. Section 2.07.03 are the standards of review for land use amendment. It is our position that it fails to meet the following standards. First, under A1, the amendment is consistent with the goals, objectives and policies of the Prehensive. The comprehensive Tarpon Springs Comprehensive Plan. Secondly, that the available uses to which the property may be put are appropriate to the property in question and compatible, and three shall provide for efficient and orderly development, considering the impact on growth patterns and finally, that it meets the standards of chapter 163. Let's look at the comprehensive plan, how it discusses the differences between a preservation designation under land use and recreational open space. This is on page 41 of the Flume amendment in your current land use. Now you guys are having an update right now, but this is the one that's binding. And so for preservation that preservation land use category is intended for areas that are now categorized or appropriate to be categorized as a natural resource feature worthy of preservation, and to recognize the significance of preserving such major environmental features and their functions. It includes things like tidal wetlands, undeveloped barrier islands, habitat for endangered or threatened species. Compare that with policy 2.6.2 for recreational open space, which is intended for areas appropriate to be used for open space and or recreational purposes. This is where the rub is, because the primary uses for recreational open space are. It could be public private open space, beach access, which that in itself would be fine. But golf course clubhouse that would that could allow golf course on this property and as you've seen in the application, the question is, well, you know, the current Morgan Morgan Group is saying that, well, under our regime or under our plan, we're not going to do this. We're going to be protected. But a land use designation that, as Miss Vincent said, that's long term. That's really hard to change. And so you're actually opening up the doors to allowing a golf course, which, by the way, for those of know, oh, that's okay, I see what that is. So and golf courses, they can have fertilizer atrazine other types of chemicals. This is right by a floodplain. This is right by Anclote River. So these are questions again applicant has the burden. They have to show by relevant and appropriate data and analysis under 163 3170 71F that they're supporting all of this. These are questions. Where is the data in the application that shows that you can diminish the preservation lands right on Anclote River and not have an environmental or coastal protection impact? These are issues also related to the character of the undeveloped land and potentially availability of water supplies, public facilities and services. And remember that much of this site is susceptible to flooding and is located in the 100 year floodplain. This is a FEMA map. This is in the documents that I gave you. All of that blue. That's a E that is that's that's a major flood zone. This is a map of Florida conservation lands, Pinellas County aquatic Preserve. Again, this speaks to the environmental quality of this property and the fact that there truly is a distinction between a preservation property and recreational open space. And that's where you need the information in front of you to really draw the line and be able to make the right decision. And it's not in front of you as far as what acreage is even being changed from preservation, this is in your coastal conservation element. Again, coastal high hazard area. You guys know this National Wetlands Inventory again in your coastal conservation element. This is estuarine, type inventory. You have wildlife habitat. I've included that. There are numerous inconsistencies with the comprehensive plan, most of which involve coastal planning. Under goal one, the city shall preserve, protect, and enhance the natural and functional characteristics of the coastal planning area. The south bank of Anclote River. It looks to low, low density residential and shoreline access for the public here. It doesn't talk about, you know, heightened recreation. And so that's again, that's a question for you. Policy 3.36 says that the city has to continue to monitor current and credible sea rise data and potential impacts. And there are a bunch of others as well. So I urge you to look through this whole list that show that these are major inconsistencies, under the Recreation and Open Space element, objective 1.5 says preserve environmentally sensitive and endangered lands for passive recreation. And so here you are getting this open space recreational designation. But it lacks specificity as to how it would be used in the event that Morgan Group is no longer the applicant on the property. So you're it seems like. Oh, well, Morgan Group says it's fine, but ask yourself what happens if this project falls through? What then? There is a conservation easement, and I'm not going to belabor the point on this, but I do want to mention that Morgan Group relies on the conservation easement as their protection, but it can be modified, and the modification says that it may be amended, altered, released, or revoked only by written agreement between the parties assigns or successors, so what assurances are there if the parcel changes ownership, that it will not be modified and protections revoked? Don't think about today. Think about in the future. What does this look like if this deal falls through, who's going to be left trying to make these tough decisions? It's important to have these this information really clear today to know, are you actually degrading. How many acres are you degrading of preservation land to recreational open space. Again these are the standards. It is our position that it fails based on the highlighted portions. In conclusion, approve the amendment to parcel three. That is good. There's nothing stopping you from saying we're okay with this. There's nothing in the condition. And Attorney Dickman again made a good statement that the condition itself speaks to the fact that you can look at this and consider it, but your hands are not tied. You are a legislative body. You have your separation of powers. You cannot be illegally contract land use. It's usually contract zoning, but contract land use to tie your hands. You don't have to do that. You can make a decision based and you must make a decision based on this information in front of you. So again, approve plan amendment for the parcel three. The 22 acres of wetlands from Krog to preservation. And then deny the changes in plan amendment parcel one and two which downgrade the preservation areas to recreation. Open space. Finally, I'll conclude my client, concerned citizens of Tarpon Springs, friends of Anclote River, has been at this for over 15 years. Obviously, we don't want this to. We would rather not see this being built, as you know, of our history. But that said, we are here. We want to make sure that the decision that you're making today is founded on the best available data. And so that's where our position is. And I do appreciate the additional time. You're welcome ma'am. Thank you. Thank you. One of rebuttal or general public comments. Continue with the public. All right. We're going to go to any additional public comments on this item. Yeah I'm Julia Sasha Bartunek I live at 2645 Meadow Drive, New Port Richey, Florida. Three four, six, five five. And, I'm a member of the Suncoast Sierra Club, Pasco Conservation Committee and we concur with what, Miss Attorney Jane Graham just presented, the Sierra Club is against any further diminishment of preservation areas and any further concretization of high hazard coastal areas. We can see from the recent great public outcry against the great outdoors initiative of such recreational activities being built in our state parks, leading to the withdrawal of the Great Outdoors Initiative sending it including with the governor's approval. Back to the drawing board. Because of the public outcry against, deteriorating or destroying any preservation areas. So technically, 1 or 2 in the 22.0 acres, the 36.64 acres, should ideally all be preserved in perpetuity. Thank you. Hi. Good evening once again, David Ballard. Geddis junior I live on Georgia Avenue in Palm Harbor based on fish and Wildlife Service delineation methods, this property in its entirety qualifies as an intermittently inundated seasonal riparian palustrine wetland system. And all of this wetland should be set aside as an eco structure preserve based on statute 163.3167, section one D, stating that in such scope of the act of this comprehensive planning of such that the agreed upon interests here may dictate and require responsible development practices frequently. I've seen Swiftmud drop the ball on on a lot of, eco structure disestablishing in this state. Development's gone haywire under the act of some of our politicians. This board has the power under statute 1633167, section one D to legislate to dictate and require the preservation of this wetland as delineated by Fish and Wildlife. Wetland inventory. I know I worked on that inventory 25 something years ago. I do believe that we need to find leaders that are resourceful and respectful of our ecosystem. Our ecosystem has been under attack since the early 70s, and some of the development that's taken place in Florida has been some of the most unbridled, uncontrolled development in the history of the world. And our habitat and destabilization of our eco structures, been criminal in my mind. This land needs to be set aside and preserved its vital eco structure. Thank you. Chris Hrabowski, 1602 Gulf Beach Boulevard, Tarpon Springs, 34689. It's an excellent question, Commissioner Eisner. What does the city gain by approving this right? We gain nothing if you prove it the way it is, but you gain everything if you preserve the wetlands and the uplands because nobody believes they're going to build their project, they're going to flip it. And when they flip it, if you leave that recreational, then people can build all kinds of stuff on it, and then you got your traffic problem all over again. But if you preserve it, it's that much less buildable land, more palatable land. And that's good for the city. Preserve all of it. The wetlands and the uplands. That's the solution. And then you give the future of the city, less traffic and less degradation. Thank you. Anita. Protest, 91 Bayshore Drive. How long we been on this? What more are we going to say? Read what the judges have said in their determination of this project. We don't know if we'll ever get anything any better than this. You look up Morgan company and you see. The reputation they have, it takes. There's no shame. The shame is they don't want to see good things happen in this community. And that's what we need to do is take care of the community. Now, ask her if she lives in the city limits. No. She may have a business here, but she doesn't flush her toilet here every night. We have to take care of our sewer, our roads, our water. We're paying through the nose now for lawsuits. Where are we going to go? We need to be progressive board members. We're not going to be here in the next 20, 25, 50 years, ten years. Let's get something good for our community and this Morgan company. They're not going to do anything that's going to shame their reputation. Read about them. They've done some of the finest developments in the state of Florida and throughout the United States. I'm tired of hearing this. It's time to move on. Be progressive and work for our community. Approve this. They're not lying. They're not doing anything wrong. We've been following this for how long? And that's why we have you up here and what we're going to get. Commissioner Eisner, is a better community to help pay our bills, take care of the needs, money wise, that we need for tarpon. They're going to pay water bills, electric bills, penny for Pinellas. Shop in our city, shop in our grocery stores. Look at what it's going to bring to us and permits. That's where your brain should go. We're fighting everything. How long have we been on this? It's time to close it and let them get started with the construction and get the people in here to spend the money in our community. Brian Cruzado, 616 Palm Avenue, Tarpon Springs, Florida. So we really don't want to talk to you guys. I admire your job. I don't know how you do it, to be honest with you, but you know, the planning zoning board, the questions they asked these people, it showed that they really didn't have any idea what they were approving. And I think you guys maybe have a little bit better idea of what you're looking at now, because there's been some explanations. But at any rate, I think if we're going to be progressive, we're going to try to save that land, preserve that land, not ruin wildlife habitat, and not let these people get away with stealing the land. That's what I have to say. Thank you so much. By Charles, 46 Reed Street, Tarpon Springs. This coming January will be 20 years that we had that marathon meeting that lasted until daybreak. The following day, when Walmart was going to build, was proposing to build a supercenter. Sir, can you speak? Can you speak further away from the microphone? It's just distorting a little bit. Just speak a little bit further away. Walmart was proposing to build a supercenter on that property. After that evening, we formed a group called the friends of the Anclote River. We fought Walmart tooth and nail. We took them to court and the reason was, well, there were several reasons. But for me personally, the reason that I joined up was because I wanted to prevent the economic, the ecological degradation of that particular area, which I think is the most sensitive area along the Anclote River in Tarpon Springs. I was driving by one day in my pickup truck, and I saw backhoes out on the property, and they were digging up gopher tortoises to relocate them. So they said in any case, that land was a ecologically sensitive. Then it's ecologically sensitive now. All this business about recreational space and preservation space, to me, those are just numbers. And once this project gets going, there's no telling what they can do to manipulate those numbers. And my final question is all that orange area along the river is that private? I mean, is that accessible to the public if I'm on a boat, if I'm on a kayak in the river, will I not be allowed to beach at that point? I don't know the answer to these questions. All I know is that 20 years ago it was a an area of our community that needed to be preserved. And I think even today, there's no reason why that has changed. It still needs to be preserved. Thank you. Wendy Cruzado, 616 Palm Avenue, Tarpon Springs, we've actually you informed me we've been doing this for 20 years, and I would continue doing this for 40 if I had to, and talk about progressive. Progressive may look different to several different people. It doesn't look to me like continuing to build. And it's not all about money. And we're not going to go back and talk about the traffic and how people could get killed on us. 19. It's about preserving this land at this point. And, you know, I'm telling you to keep it under preservation and deny the request for the recreation. Open space. And I have to laugh because you remember 20 years ago I wore an eagle outfit, a complete outfit, standing in the baking sun, trying to get people to understand about. We have a little bit of land left. Still, the decisions that are made are forever decisions. When somebody gets their legs amputated, you don't grow new legs. These are forever decisions. Every little decision that each one of you makes. And just like Jane, thank you so much for all that you did in preparation was wonderful. And there is no you know, you don't have to give an answer, a go answer to them tonight. This is a forever decision affecting not just you, not just the city. It affects everybody. It affects our wildlife. So I thank you so much for being here tonight. Are there any other public comments? It are there any zoom comments online? We do have several raised hands. So the first person in. If you can state your name that evening board and commissioners Peter Lack is 514 Ashland avenue. I would ask that consideration to allow me a little more than two minutes, because I do have a few things I would like to express and fill in the gaps. So, so you will be given nothing more than that on page eight it says denial of the Flum amendment would not affect the current development, would affect the future development of the current one is not realized. So again, Anita's got it wrong. It's not about Morgan Group and their current development. If they develop it, we just want that land preserved. And if they don't, we want that preserved for future times. Now let's go back to Jane's presentation on page ten, where she explained to you what recreation open space does the primary uses? One of the things she didn't highlight, but I will now. And primary uses it says public recreation facility. Now however, you can go to the comp plan and you look at the definitions of recreation facilities. Besides golf courses, it says facilities. Facilities focus on offering amusement, recreation, personal instructions and or equipment or facilities for exercising, improving physical fitness such as outdoor swimming pools, skateboard parks, arenas, school of dance, gymnastics, martial arts, athletic courts, skating rinks, batting cages, or other similar activities and establishments. So they've promised to their conservation easement to do only a certain amount of things. But however they flip that, you're going to have a new developer come in and say, hey, we want to offer pickleball courts or we want to offer little mini putt putt golf, or we want to offer racquetball courts or tennis courts or another little clubhouse and bathrooms on that parcel one, which is 5.7 acres. And there's enough room for tha. Now, lastly, I'm so glad that Commissioner Eisner brought up, and Cindy discussed it about page nine and the biotech consulting report. Now, as you heard me mention during the previous comments, about Morgan Group not having a current, permit for their IT gopher tortoise speaker, please. Thank you. So as far as the fact that. I'll allow the next person in. Thank you. Hello. Yes. If you can state your name and address for the record. Sure. Mark Washburn, 124 East Lake Drive, Tarpon Springs, Florida. I am the president of Save Tarpon Springs, and I wanted to connect the dots for everybody. I was part of the team 20 years ago. That helped. Recommend the Walmart be, not allowed to build there, but, you know, take over the old Kmart facility, but to connect the dots, let's talk about this. Cindy Tarpon is the stepmother of towns and Tarpon, who played a key role in approving this development. Towns and Tarpon is also the business partner of David Banther, who was also a commissioner at Armstrong. They got approval from Swiftmud right at Armstrong, an attorney and shareholder at Hill Ward. Henderson has been on the governing board of Swiftmud since June 2014, with three appointments in October 2020 and June 2022. His current term runs out in 2026. He is the head of Swiftmud, Connor Donovan, also consistently aligned with the group and also played a key role in pushing this development forward. So I want to appreciate, Mr. Koulianos, for transparency. While on the PNC board, he stated that he would never allow his daughter to live in a development with such a hazardous ingress egress point on us highway 19. One more point the Morgan Group repeatedly claims this project will benefit the city, yet they fail to mention that it will be a gated community and only residents will have access to the boat ramp, natural trails and riverfront. And the general public in Tarpon Springs will be excluded from all these amenities. That's been stated several times. So one more thing that I think is very important is that, I've been talking to friends in Tallahassee that say they now have a huge budget since the canceled several, golf courses and, other amenities that were supposed to be built in state parks. And with all this extra cash on hand, they could consider purchasing this property and turning it into a state park. And heck, if they want to build a few pickleball courts on it and a boat ramp and preserve it for the residents of Tarpon Springs and surrounding area, I'm all for that. Thank you for your comments, sir. Next speaker, please. And we do not have any other raised hands at this time, does the applicant have a rebuttal? Yes, sir. Thank you. Mr. Mayor, first of all, I just want to state and I think your attorney has said it quite well, too. We're not relitigating we're not rehearing the site plan. We're not asking you to do that. I'm sure you don't want to do that. That's been done. It's over and done with. And permits have already been issued for this project. But we are asking you to do is help us fulfill an obligation that was part of that RPD, and I think I can explain some of the wetland issue, Renee, if you wouldn't mind, wouldn't mind going back to your slide that shows the current future land use map. Is there any way I can use the, the pointer if you don't mind, well, thank you. I don't think I'm qualified in that pointer. Probably, but I will try. What do I point with? This. Okay. Yeah So this is a current future land use map. As we said earlier, in 2000, the wetlands were the preservation. Preservation was assigned to this property in the ordinance. It only assigned 11 acres as preservation wetlands or preservation. When we did the Swiftmud survey and Swiftmud approved that survey, we now have what is in reality, there's 22 acres of wetlands on the site. The differences are in a couple of places. This is your current land use map. So this wetland goes all the way through there. That's number one, up in here. This is wider wetlands than it than it is today. So, Renee, if you can go now to the current land use map, I mean, the proposed. Excuse me so you can see the proposed all of this is wet now and reflected by Swiftmud. And there's only a small portion of property along the river that's actually wetlands. The area that's actually was preservation incorrectly because it was mapped with very general information, not fieldwork as preservation is a little snippet along here and a little snippet right in here. So in reality, as I said, in 2000, there was 11 acres identified as wetlands. There's actually 22. We're asking you to approve that. And the, the, the reason this was brought forward by the staff and your commission was so that all of the land that was not being developed with buildings, parking, stormwater ponds, that it would be in perpetuity as rec open space and could not be built in some future date by any developer is. That's why we have the rec open space before you tonight. So preservation is only for wetlands? It's not. It doesn't mean you preserve land. That's not the definition in your in your future land use map preservation is wetlands or beaches. We're not a beach. Obviously. This is what we're asking you to make that 22 acres as wetlands. So we're actually increasing the amount of wetlands. We're doubling the amount of wetlands that are being preserved under our request. And secondly, we're asking you for this. The upland areas that are in the light green, which is this area around this peninsula, the southeast peninsula, and then this little area which we don't have any proposed use on it in our future in our site plan. And then this area along the river, which is indeed where the eagle nest is, we're asking you to make that recreation open space. And it's about 14.5 acres. I'd also say that all the concerns that Miss Graham brought up to you were completely addressed in a ridiculous amount of hours, 20 something hours of hearings and approved in that RPD site plan, the master plan and the conditions, the issues about coastal high hazard and sea level rise have all been addressed. There's no need for you to worry about it because it's been approved and dealt with in a very specific, detailed way. I'd also say there seem to be some some suggestion by some of these speakers that this RPD plan that we have that's already approved, that you're not hearing tonight, that is just going to go away. If Morgan happened to go away. Well, first of all, Morgan is not going away. But second of all, even if they did, the RPD site plan that a previous commission approved is in effect forever, unless that applicant comes back into you and the commission approves a new RPD site plan. So that's the only way that it gets changed. Exact same scenario for the conservation easement. The only way that conservation easement gets changed is in an applicant comes back in, whether it's Morgan or some other applicant, and the applicant owner and the city mutually agree to amend the conservation easement. I don't really see that happening. It was it was discussed in great detail, the purpose of it is very clear. It's the same purpose as we're asking for today. So I think, I hope that you would we think you should approve it tonight. I think it's not ambiguous at all. It's very clear what we're asking to do. We're merely asking you to reflect in the future land use map. What has already been reflected in previous decisions on our RPD site plan. And I'll stop there, and I'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have. Commissioner Eisner thank you, Vice Mayor, I finally found what I was looking for. Okay, where is, there was a letter written to us, and it's an opinion on May 16th, 2024. So that's a current letter. It's not the 2021. And who's who's the letter from? Hold on a second. Presented to the city of Tarpon Springs, 324 East Pine Street. Prepared for Morgan Group prepared by Hugh. I've read so many letters about this project. You have to give me a little more context about what's in the letter, sir. Well, it says revised May 16th, 2024, but it's Cindy Dharapani Cynthia Dharapani, owner authorized member of Penny planning Strategies. So are you talking this is I have there is a letter that's dated May 15th, 2024 which was our submittal of our plan amendment, a consolidated application. That's that was not it's my letter. It's not from biotech doing any revised study. I'm not really sure. This is a letter that you've sent to us, it's prepared for Morgan Group and it has revised May 16, 2024. It's the cover letter. When I submitted the consolidated, we had submitted applications previously for this plan amendment, and we actually had two applications pending. The staff asked us to merge them into one. And so we did that on May 15th, 2024. I did that and this is my cover letter saying, here is our application. Here's what I've submitted, so I mean, I don't see anything if I'm looking at the same letter you're looking at it. It's not a biotech report, so I'm not sure. Let me let me read what's in the report though, because that's it was it's a current letter. It's not something back in 21. It's current letter okay. So it says it should also be noted that Biotech Consulting Inc. prepared an environmental assessment report dated July 19, 2021 that was submitted as part of the final development plan application. The biotech report notes that there are two species on the site that are considered threatened or protected. The gopher tortoise and the bald eagle. With regard to the gopher tortoise, the applicant has received and approved relocation permit that allows the relocation of the gopher tortoises to an approved recipient site. Consistent with the requirements so on that question, we received letters, that that was rescinded. Did you is that a current thing that you have approval to relocate the gopher tortoise, or has it been rescinded? As I stated earlier, we did receive a gopher tortoise permit and it expired because they have a very short window, when we are closer to actually starting construction, physically doing the construction, we will reapply with a current gopher tortoise study to Fish and Wildlife. They will approve that hopefully with whatever conditions that they that they attach to it. And then we will be allowed to do the relocation. The city is not going to let us do any construction until we do that. That's the very first thing that has to be done. Well, in addition to some tree barricading, but that getting the getting the gopher tortoise study re-approved is the next step. Of course, that has nothing to do with what we're talking about tonight, but we know that we do need to get a new gopher tortoise study, if that's what you're asking me. So I'm right. It is rescinded. No, it wasn't rescinded. We got expired. We got a permit and they expired. And I think I can't remember if it's 60 or 90 days. So it's a very short time period. But we did have a permit and it is expired for the gopher tortoises. So let me read paragraph two with regard to the bald eagle, the biotech report surveyed the Anclote Harbor site in January 2021, and May 2021, and noted that one bald eagle nest had been abandoned, and the second nest does not appear to be in use by eagles. Now it says this is the this is what I was trying to find for you before. Biotech also reports that during the last year there have been there have not been any observations of the bald eagles, either in the nests or on the site. But I don't have their report. It was part of the RPD site plan. It's not part of this discussion tonight has nothing to do with the plan amendment. That's before you tonight. And does it really matter what report they have done? Quite frankly because bald eagles are regulated by, the federal government. We have a permit from the federal government to do construction at least 330 and 660ft away from that nest. It's not something that the city is involved in. And but we do have an appropriate permit to implement the site plan that we have, that we already have approval on oh point of order. If this document is not in our backup and hasn't been in our backup, I don't know why it's getting introduced as a future land use amendment issue on this application. Is this a this is a document that's in our backup? No, sir. It's not right here. But I don't have the document. The biotech reports are not in your plan amendment package because they're not part of the application. What the plan amendment, what he's referring to is the narrative that I prepared that accompanied the plan amendment applications. So we are I am responding to two portions of your comprehensive plan that address conservation issues. So I'm just explaining what we have done with regard to gopher tortoises and bald eagles in terms of conservation. There is no biotech report included in this plan amendment application. It's not a required element. It's required at your site plan process, which we've already gotten approval on. Okay. So let me let me ask this question. Is the area, The commercial general and the residential office general and preservation does that with is that in the area where these bald eagle are, where the bald eagle is located, is, kind of between the wetlands and it's probably mostly on the recreation open space area. So it's in what we're discussing. It's in the plan amendment area. Yes. So I don't understand why I'm being asked that. It's not something to be discussed. I think we need to clarify. Are you reading from the backup package that was provided as part of the public? You're not. It's not something that's independent. That you found. This is okay. This is in the. Okay. I'm reading this and it's not making sense because I don't have that application. And yet I'm being told that it's not part of what we're discussing, but it is what we're discussing. The gopher tortoises are not within your jurisdiction, so we're not discussing that the eagle nest is not within the city's jurisdiction. So no, we are not discussing that as a point of information. The fact that there are there is an eagle nest, whether it's occupied or not, that's not for me to say, but there is an eagle nest that is in the area of the plan amendment. It is protected by an eagle permit that's already been issued completely outside of the city's jurisdiction. So there's really no need for you to worry about the eagle, because the feds have already taken care of it, and they've given us a permit and said what we can and can't do in proximity to the Eagle. There's no buildings in that in that upper green along the river where the Eagle Nest is. There are no buildings in the site. Plan There cannot be any buildings in the future. If you approve this plan amendment, and there aren't any in the current site plan that's been approved. Mayor. Yes So legal. I'm going to have to contradict you a little bit here. If there are aspects of the comprehensive plan that deal with natural resources and conservation, like, endangered species, native habitat, and if that's part of the data analysis that staff is looking at or that has been applied for, then I think that is relevant, so do I. Well, hold on, hold on. You know, I'm not saying that the application process that, that the applicant's experts is true. You know, they have to the gopher tortoise relocation permits and the process for the bald eagle and things like that. Those are all processes that have to happen. But I do think that it's it is, you know, you have to look at internal consistency of your comprehensive plan. So goals, objectives and policies that might relate to that. Any data analysis that may relate to, you know, preservation of those things. And then anything that's in the state law related to the comprehensive planning, so I think it is something that it's, something that you can ask questions of and, and base your decisions on if you like. Well, it's on page nine of the 12 that we were submitted. The letter is dated the, may 16, 2024 current. And they say that there's a report during the last year and I don't have it. And yet I'm asked to weigh in on this. What I'm asked to make a decision on something without that information. Again, I'm I concur with you. I think that I mean, that that generally the issue of, endangered species, you kno, habitat, things of that nature are. I'm almost certain I can't do it. Verse in, in Bible and verse, but I'm almost certain that your comprehensive plan addresses conservation issues and things like that. And I'm sure I would think that your planning department probably looked at that as well. And that's exactly why we are putting the rec open space on not just this area, but the rest of the upland area for preservation. It's being designated as Rec open space because it's significant upland habitat. The city staff asked us to do that. One of your commissioners expanded the area that we originally proposed to be as significant upland habitat. That's why we're here tonight. Yes, there is an eagle there. That's the whole point. There's other significant upland habitat like vegetative communities and that sort of thing. But I'm sorry, Renee, I think and I think the point being is if I understand what's happening here, is that this is actually Renee. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're actually down planning this area. You're down planning it in the sense that it actually has a density on it as it sits today. That's correct. But with respect to the specific portion of that, Commissioner Eisner, I just want to read it verbatim. It says th. With regard to the bald eagle, the biotech report surveyed the Anclote Harbor site in January 2021 and May 2021, and noted that one bald eagle nest had been abandoned and the second nest does not appear to be in use by Eagles. Biotech also reports that during the last year, there have not been any observations of bald eagles either in either nest on the site. I took that to basically be that you were regurgitating what was in the 2021 report, not that there was a new report. That's correct. That's why I wasn't looking for another report. So correct that that's the way I reviewed that. So all right, Commissioner, let's try to wrap up our comments with the applicant. And, I'm not done. In the next paragraph it says the biotech report also states that Department of the interior, US Fish and Wildlife Service approved a short term eagle incidental take permit on April second, 2021, and it says the permit approves the limited construction activities shown on the final development plan, but does not allow removal of the Eagle Nest. The approval of final development plan indicates the area and the proximity to the eagle nest that will be preserved and not developed, consistent with the approved short term Eagle incidental Take permit if this was handed to me in 21 or in 22, I could understand it. It's being handed to me in 24 to make a decision on that particular area. With nothing current. The permit, the eagle nest, the eagle take permit is has been approved and is valid. There's it's not been expired. It is a valid permit. So there's really like I said the feds take care of that. That's within their jurisdiction. They did give us limited approval. They allowed us to do we cannot do construction during nesting season at all. We then we have to set back any activity, parking lots, etc. from the Eagle nest. All that's in the take permit, that's already been approved. And that permit is still valid. Commissioner, wrap up your comments. I'm done. Thank you. Commissioner Galanis. Mr. Penny, or is the applicant, willing to expand some of the preservation space and reduce some of the, the open recreation space, expand more and make more wetlands on the site? No. So let's go back. Let's go back to, the slide before this one. Okay. So up at the top, I think Miss Graham mentioned, pointed that out that that spot there is, is a wider and deeper than the proposed. That's correct. Spot because it was a mapping error. Okay So obviously let, let let me let's back up a little bit, you know, Mister Washburn, you know, made a comment about me and my daughter's, I'm the only one up here. And just just the way it worked out, I'm the only one up here that actually voted on this project. Yes, sir. Okay, I voted on it twice. I voted no, but that that that's that deal is gone, right? Yes, sir. It is approved and the site plan is approved and the permits have been issued and that's. Yeah, that this project has been approved, permitted. It's gone through courts. It's it is where it is now. We're at a point where we have this one hanging. Chad. Right. This item that has to be dealt with, and it's being proposed, that obviously, the voting no on this leaves more property. In less protected. Right There would be, more lands in the CG and wrong plan categories that are developable properties. If someone if someone came back in with a revised RPG site plan. Right. So is there room given that you were this one of the conditions that you were going to bring this this, land use amendment, proposal here, is there a chance to negotiate any part of this? No, sir. I'm not authorized by Morgan to make any changes to the applicant application that we have. We think it's properly before you. I mean, that's for your attorney to confirm. But what Morgan wishes to do that we think meets condition seven of the RPD is to identify the wetlands, which is about 22 acres. That's been approved by Swiftmud and identify about 14.5 acres of recreation open space, that is the upland habitat and that and those two requests are consistent with our RPD plan. But I'm not authorized by Morgan to make any changes at this time. Okay So this may be a question for Miss Graham. How do we get from where we are to all the rest of this property being preservation? Commissioner? Well, it would be my client's dream to have this entire property preservation. That's not a position that I'm up here taking today. What I what I'm saying is that inasmuch as there are different sections of this request to parse it out and make sure that you are not taking away preservation and opening it up to being open space, that could potentially be used as recreation. And I think it was you and other members of the Commission who look at that map and can see that there is a question of habitat. So preservation under policy, 2.6.1 under Primary Uses lists habitat for endangered or threatened species as designated. And such additional areas so let me get back to my to my question. I hear what you're saying. How do you get there? How do you get there? How do we how do we vote? First of all, we have a project that's been approved with this condition that they bring this land use amendment to us, right? Today we vote yes or we vote no on this land use amendment. You say we can parcel it out and vote yes or no. Fine. We it's a yes or no on this amendment. You're saying you would want no recreation, open space if you had your druthers and you'd want it all preservation? I just don't know how we get there. I hear you saying what you want, but do we, go back after the fact and try to change the land use amendment on a on a on a project that's already been permitted, wouldn't we? I mean, you're an attorney, wouldn't we put ourselves in some form of jeopardy doing that, overstepping like that? I just don't know how we get where you want to go unless they want to participate in this. In negotiating with you. I don't know how we get there, so I would make two points. Commissioner. I think the first point is that you make a good argument for why you should not vote on this tonight, because you do not have the clear information as to what exactly is being voted on and what is being determined. Secondly, as your city attorney had said, the condition speaks to the fact that you're required to consider this, but you're not required to vote up or down. You still have the legislative authority to make a decision based on based on health, safety and welfare to decide however you want to decide. Your hands are not tied to say yes or no tonight. And I think that you're making a really good point for the fact that you don't have the data in front of you to make this decision. So, I mean, if I were you, I would kick this. I mean, if you're not comfortable parsing it out and I probably wouldn't be either because you don't have all the information in front of you. I would kick this back and ask your staff to say, please tell us of the preservation Land. What are you asking to turn into recreation? Open space? You don't have that number. No one has has shown you that tonight. And so I think that that's a question. And, you know, as far as exposing to, you know, different what has already been approved, I think, you know, that, again, goes back to the question of, you know, you are a legislative body. This is a policy decision. Your hands are not tied as to what you do, and you do have the authority to say, I'm okay with part of this, but not all of it. But hold on a second here, I appreciate that, but I'll give them the advice, this is a this is a application coming from a private. This is not a city initiated applicatio. So I think the point that you're making is a good one is that unless the applicant is willing to modify their application, maybe read, you know, add more preservation land. I think the things that they're asking for, you can't force that upon them. You can't, you can say to your staff, I want more information, you can continue it, things like that. But at the end of the day, you can't make the applicant change their application. I think you just said it better than I did. Thank you. Renee, could you answer your, Miss Graham's, concern as that you have not identified the. We did not explicitly stated in the staff report. We do have that number for you. So in the southeastern part of the property over here is about 1.06 acres. And then up on the north bank is about 2.35 acres of that would be going from preservation to recreation, open space. And you've identified all that and that's where you came up with your 27.53 14.5. It's important. It's all in part of that. Yes. It's all incorporated into all that. Yeah Okay. Thank you I got one I got a couple questions for Miss Vincent as. And I'm actually going to use Miss Graham's document right here. The current and proposed. You can just map up there, ma'am, under that, the current section in that northern corner, consists of preservation and commercial general. Currently Yes. So by denying this project, there may be some potential ability to build something commercial in that area. Yes Okay. And yet you're still going to have the preservation. Correct. The smaller a smaller area based on an actual wetland delineation. Okay. Now if we don't if we do approve it, then that area of commercial general becomes much smaller. The recreation open space becomes much bigger, and you still have that outskirt of wetlands. That's your about your your outer boundary with the river and the rec space that eventually comes into the, commercial general. Now we have this southeast portion. Okay That's the proposed, which is that light green is recreation, open space. And that inner that darker green is preservation. The current section is where you see that light green area that is preservation. And then you also have that light purple, which is residential office, general. So if this commission does deny this situation, we've really left the door open for potentially more development on those two spots of those properties, but potentially. And again, any development in the future would most likely come in and ask for the same, you know, doing a wetland adjustment line to ground truth is a very common process under the countywide plan rules, to adjust wetland boundaries, which would typically typically wetlands or preservation. Do you have other areas that can get put into preservation? Of course. But typically, you know, in Pinellas County and under the countywide plan rules, preservation is areas are are wetlands. And so that's why we usually go through a process when we have a project like this where, you know, once you have a verified wetland line that you can go out and stay on the ground. Now we now we update the map to show accurately where what that land actually is. You know, these are so we're cleaning up shape files essentially. So that's how we end up with these discrepancies, especially when these line, these things were created 25, 30 years ago and haven't been modified since. Okay. And, I have no further. Oh, one more thing. This by approving this, we can't condition it to. This is just only for the applicant. This carries on on the property. Correct So that that's out of the question. I have no further comments. I'd really like public comments to wrap up. That way we could get back to the commission and, get this application to discussed. So thank you. Yeah. We did. I think we finished with public comment. Are we finished with public comments? We're coming back to the commission, is there a motion on the table? I make a motion to approve ordinance 2024. Dash oh six, second. Are there any further Commission comments? Yes, we just had to do that in the affirmative, which we did. Yeah Okay. And roll call, please. Commissioner Donato. Yes Commissioner. Collins. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. No. Vice mayor. Yes. Yes. We're going back to special consent agenda. We have our final item of the night, which is special consent agenda. Item 12 board. Pinellas reapportionment plan, item A approve interlocal agreement. I'll just see what was falling on it, yes. We have two, two things to do. As you know, the governor finally signed for us to have the seats. So there's two things we got to do. We got to approve the change in their interlocal agreement, which gives us a seat on the board. Pinellas. And then part B of it is appointment of the commissioner to serve on that board. So part A, that's the agreement that all the cities have to sign with the new reapportionment. So I'm bringing it forward so we can sign that. And get step one out of the way. And then we can move to our placement of a person on that board after a long time and a long, hard fight that a lot of you attended meetings to ensure happened. Sure. Are there any public comments on this item? It are there any zoom comments online, please. And there are no raised hands at this time. Okay, back to the commission for a motion. I make a motion that we approve, the Board Pinellas Reapportionment plan, a approve the interlock, interlocal interlocal agreement, and b appoint reappoint Commissioner Eisner to one on one. Do do them separate. Do you want to do them separate? Okay Yeah, I, I, I make a motion that we approve the forward Pinellas reapportionment plan and approve the interlocal agreement. Second. There are no further comments. Roll call please. Commissioner Donato. Yes, Commissioner. Yes, Commissioner. Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Coleus. Yes Now, I make a motion that we reappoint Commissioner Eisner to the forward Pinellas seat. Second, appoint a point. Be a point. Is the de facto. But now we have. Are there any public comments on this item? It are there any zoom comments online? And there are no raised hands at this time? Okay. We have a motion on the floor with a second and no further. Oh go ahead Commissioner. So I have an issue with this and I need to make sure that Mr. Commissioner Koulianos hears this. I've been instrumental being at every one of these meetings, and I appreciate you nominating me, but I also need to be asked if I'm going to do this, as of the last meeting I heard right from you stating that you did not, indirectly, you did not appreciate me working for you. You know, future in the board because you made comments that you liked, Commissioner Coleus, you made comments about Frank, you made comments about Susan, and there was no comment about me. So I take that as you didn't appreciate working with me. And that's okay. At the same time, I got a comment back from Vice mayor that he wants to run against me. Well, Whit Blanton called me up and asked me if I would be there at the meet and greet, which is in November, and they swear in in January. So it makes no sense to represent Tarpon Springs for January. And February, when in March 12th, we have an election and I am undeclared, whether I am in the election or if I am, I have a announced person that wants to run against me. It just doesn't make sense for me to be, traveling five hours a month to go to these boards with what I feel is not going to help Tarpon Springs. So that's my comment back. And I'm happy to hear whatever you have to say. I just let me respond real quick, please. Weather. First of all, the I don't like you thing is, I don't even know what that means, the, what I think about you or not about you, which I don't think ill of you at all. I think you're a fine gentleman. Has nothing to do with whether you serve your city or not. I don't think you serve the city based on what I think of you. Now, you you. The second point, you made, if you don't think you're going to be around or whatever, then, and you don't want to take that seat that that's your business. Whether I like you or don't like you, you should have no bearing on whether you want to serve your city. That, that, that that sentence may zero sense to me. Okay. So, you you do what you want, I, I know that you've been very active up there. You've attended all the meetings, you have, I mean, I was at a meeting with you. I know how much passionate you are for forward Pinellas. That's why I made the motion. I think you, are have a lot of passion for that. That position and if you want to be there, I personally would be happy to vote for you to be there. That's all I can say. If I may say something, you know, Commissioner Eisner, I think you've done a great job going to all those meetings and, regardless whether you run or not, I think it's a good. And you got grit. You're here, sir. You know, you can you can handle some pressure. So there's no doubt about that. But, you've done a great job in representing the city with Ford Pinellas. I don't see why you wouldn't want to continue to do it. I mean, I think you know best about all the issues that come up forward. And now I don't know if it's a temporary, you know, based on your situation, you know, I'm not sure. You know, I'm not sure where I'm going on the political level so that but I can't speak on that. All I'm saying is you do a great job representing the city. You've done a great job in that position, you've met some great people that, you have your you have your bearings with. And so I don't see why, you know, it'd be a good way for you to, be appointed something, you know, the mayor, mayor and yourself and those board members have worked on. But you have worked on on it harder, there's no doubt. You know, even if I have my disagreements with you, I can't sit there and say, you don't go to ten places and you don't represent the city. I can't say that because you do. You know. So, I would like to see you potentially go there, you know, but it's at this point it's up to you and how you feel. And and your situation, but you know, in the back of my mind, I didn't even think about that. I thought, we're definitely giving it to Commissioner Heiser. He's worked for it. So, you know, I understand we got my mad. You know, I'm a little frustrated with him today for this October 1st meeting thing, but it is what it is. We gotta we gotta move forward. And so, mayor, mayor V leaving us is really opened up my eyes to, you know, and how I need to do a better job being civil, especially this temporary position I'm in. It seems like. So, you know, it's up to you, sir. I'm just not going to do. I don't do things to waste my time or the city's time. And if I don't have the support from this board that I'm going to represent, the comments that came up of last meeting was so bad about. And Commissioner Giuliani's repeated some of them. If you're not from living here and you're a northerner, you're not you don't have the city at heart. These are the comments that would would deter anybody, from from going forward and devoting your five hours, which I do every single month that I go to it. So if I have your support, I'm happy to do it. If I don't have your support and I'm going to hear comments like that, or where I got a Wick card from all these little things that you're making comments of, I don't need to do it. That's my point. It is nothing more, nothing less. Would you still consider it doing? Doing it, sir? I was asked by whit Blanton to do it. I was just asked to be in a panel decision of panel on on school transportation safety for schools, which I agreed to, and I said I'd be there in in Port Tampa. So of course, this is something I sit on the, the school transportation safety Board also that I go to. So but I'm not going to go to it if I don't have the support of the board because it's a waste of time. I made the motion. I understand what the motion is. John. John, I understand what the motion is, sir. Okay, let's let's let's point of order. I mean, first of all, do you want it or do you not? I seconded it because I think I understand that, I understand it, I don't want to do anything. I want to vote for it. Right. I understand what I've been doing this every single month. I understand I've done it before myself. I understand this is why I wouldn't second this. You didn't have my support. So All right, motion on the floor. It's been seconded, roll call, please. Commissioner DiNardo. Yes Commissioner. Collins. Yes, Commissioner. Eisner. Yes, vice mayor. Yes Yes, and. This concludes the regular session. Agenda Are there any staff comments? Police chief? No, ma'am. City attorney. City manager. Yes From attorney Salzman, we need to try to have a shade meeting this week. Hopefully to finalize the grass lawsuit, and I know we got some circumstances. We might have some scheduling problems Thursday or Friday, but Mr. Salzman can do it until the last available time is 1030 the morning of Thursday morning. The last available time 1030 or after 1130 on Friday. He's not available tomorrow and we have to give some notice of this. So probably going to be a half hour. But we may want to dedicate an hour. It's a very you know, you have to just make a final decision. Would it be possible to do it Wednesday night after we're done with that session. And you're not available Wednesday? Oh, it's not available. Mr. Is not available when he's got another conflict. That was my suggestion. But and plus it wouldn't give us any time to notice. We'd be we'd be we'd be saying tonight for tomorrow meeting it'd be it'd be a little short. Although it's probably doable. It'd be questionable to do it then. So and I know, I know you have some things scheduled medically. So are there Friday, Friday is my only day that you're available or not available. Yeah. All right. Friday I'm not available. I won't be in the area this Frida. I'm fine. Anytime Thursday. I am done for. I have a full day. When do we have to have this? By city manager? Well, the problem is I need that. But I tried to get Mr. Salzman tonight because learning. Learning of some medical things that I knew was coming up from Mr. I was trying to get Ahold of him to see if there's another available time. I imagine we could call a meeting to get three of them. The city attorney, if we had to call a meeting just to decide the date and time. If I get three people to together. Yeah. You just you only need a majority to call, have a quorum. I'm just trying to figure out when to. You know, Thursday I would be available, majority of the day, tomorrow we got. I got the luncheon, and then we have the special session. I don't you know, he's on. Mr. Salzman is unavailable Wednesday. That's why the good three members of this board do a Thursday morning or Thursday afternoon. Thank yo. Only he's only available till 1030 on Thursday. But killing me anytime. Up until 10:30 a.m. on on Thursday at any time. You said anytime before. I can do 830. Each. I. You want to get back with us tomorrow on an email? Well the only thing we got to make an announcement. That's why I'm doing it in a meeting. Because you have to make an announcement at a meeting. By statute, the attorney has to, request your advice, and apparently he's requesting it through the city manager. Yes, I see and you have to state who's going to win. It's going to be who's going to be there, what it's going to be about. There's certain things that the statute requires you to do. It has to be done in a public meeting. It's constitute a. Notice. Well, tomorrow's a public meeting. Special session. Right Budget. Can't we make the notice right now. No, I don't think that's enough time. That's. I think you need what, 24 hours? You need 24 hours. Well, I think what he's saying is there's a budget meeting, but they're allowed to be anything added to that. No. So this is a different this is a executive session. So what I'm asking for is asking for I'll get some dates on Monday or Tuesday or so. What would be a special meeting to set the time. And the stuff for the is tomorrow. So the meeting. So you're basically saying you can come back tomorrow at I'd probably make a 6:00. Special session to get an agreement on a date, which would probably be Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday. Yeah but my computer but I believe that the statute says you had the attorney has to request the meeting at a, at a public meeting. Okay Well, that's why I was going to. So is this a workshop? What is this? What are you. Well, the budget thing is I just didn't know by law if you could have another meeting on the night of the separate meeting, it would be a separate meeting. It would be a separate special session. One item to determine a date. But we still have to have 24 hours. Notice that we're having a special session and that won't we don't meet that requirement for tomorrow Thursday. We don't have any availability. Three of us again in the morning. Eight 830 Thursday morning. Is that okay, Commissioner DiDonato? A little early for somebody who's retired, but I can be there. So the only other suggestion is, again, call us, call a meeting at another time to. But again, we're still dealing with the same problem on Thursday. And can we do a good on a call. No, no no. Just a shame meeting. Right Yeah. But we have to have a meeting to announce. Do all the announce. There's got to be a. You can't just do it. We have to have a meeting to announce we're going to be at this date this time. These people that shade meeting. Yeah. So let me just be clear. So that it's not just a shade meeting because you have to open the meeting in the public, go into the executive session or shade meeting and then come back out and adjourn it. But under Florida statute, it says the entity's attorney shall advise the entity. You all are the entity at a public meeting that he or she desires advice concerning the litigatio, then it's the subject matter, of the meeting shall be confined to the settlement. You guys know all this, but. So that's why, city manager's bringing you up at this. At this meeting. Because it has to be set and determined at this meeting. I mean, typically, honestly, the city attorney is the one asking, but I, you know, it's being done through the city manager, Mr. Salzman's latest is Thursday, 10 a.m, 1030. The meeting could be at 1030 because he has to be out. I think by 1130 or 1145, but but we got to commit. The other thing I could do is Monday set a meeting. Set a meeting to have Mr. Salzman there and one item to ask for a date and time for the shade me, I guess, or find out his availability. The earliest next week we'd set a meeting to set the set the meeting, and then have to have the notice and stuff and do it towards the middle of the week. I don't think that's I don't think that's, you know, so I would get with you if let me ask you a question. What is the meeting tomorrow? It's a budget meeting. It's the required statute. It's the statutory required budget meeting, but it's still a public meeting, though, right? It's still considered a public meeting. Right But I'm not sure. I thought there was something to conflict. I don't think you can do any other items on there because the statutory budget, I don't think there's any other items you can put on that. Yeah. I wouldn't risk your budget hearing on it. Yes No. All right. So if you want, I can get a date for Monday. Just tell you we got a special session sometime Monday. I'll have you all. Y'all send me your schedules for if there's any lull times Monday or Tuesday. And then tomorrow I'll get with Mr. Salzman, and we'll just do a one item. Meet him at least three. You have to be able to say, we're setting the meeting within statutory timeframes. Who's in it? And probably be Wednesday or beyond. We'd have to we'd do it Monday. It'd be Wednesday or beyond. We'd do the shade meeting. So that meeting, that special meeting will be just to request the specific meeting for the executive session. Yes. Okay Very good. Yes. I would ask that Mr. Saltzman draft something for you. If he's not going to be here so that he can, it's. Well, he would be there to present it, that he just got a conflict on two. I understand, but even when you ask for this meeting, it says the entity's attorney shall do it. But I testing whether it's done through if it's done through you, I mean, it really needs to lay out exactly who's going to attend and what time it is. And things like that. Okay, I've got an attorney. I'll make sure he goes through you next time so you can request for him to give me. And that would cover the attorney thing. Don't get me involved in that. Sorry but where where are we now with this? You're going to find out. We're at the end. We're at the very end. You got a decision to make on there and stuff. So if it's all right with everybody, I'll get you tomorrow. And I'll. If you have any conflicts on on Monday, time wise, let me know and I'll find out his and he will be here to hold the meeting to ask you. Ask you what date or time. Probably to give at least 48 hours Wednesday, Thursday or Friday when to have the shade meeting, to do that, I don't think it's time restricted. It has to be this week, but obviously we all want to end it. So why don't why don't I do that? If I get consensus, I'll just. I'll just do that. I'm free after 10:00 Monday. Okay Sure. Okay. I'll let I'll let you all know tomorrow. We'll shoot for that meeting to be sometime next week. The actual shade meeting? Yeah. The one meeting you'll meet at the vote on the. And then. And only three have to be there to approve that. As long as we get the date of when you can do so. Keep an eye on your schedule next week for the two meetings we'll hold for it and stuff. That's the way I'll go, any other comments? City manager? No. City clerk, I have none, thank you. All right. Board comments, Commissioner Eisner just said that the mayor, stepped down. Commissioner Koulianos. You know, the. We're here. And I think this is true for all of us here, for the cit, you know, there's, I listened to the attorneys, You know, and I don't want to go through this whole legal fee business, but we they are here to protect us. And I don't know what advice they give everyone else. I asked them pretty specific questions. And if they feel that we shouldn't go down a certain road or it's not advisable to go down a road, then I choose not to go down that road, I don't, you know, I'm not in somebody else's head. I don't know what makes somebody, Make the decision that the mayor made. That's something, you know, he will have to. That's a decision that, you know, he has to live with. We have to move forward. It's again, it's unfortunate, you know, it's a, you know, I run marathons and, you know, I get to 23, 24 miles, and, I can see, you know, I got 2 or 3 miles left. I may not be pretty, but I want to get to the finish line. Now, sometimes we, you know, you have to assess yourself whether you're, just feeling rotten and things aren't going your way, and you still gut it out and get the last 2 or 3 miles of that race done, sometimes you have to assess, hey, I might have a stress fracture. And if I take one more step, I could have real damage to myself. That's everybody's personal decision. So everybody makes their own decision about what they think they can withstand and what they want to deal with, and the mayor made his. I wish him well. I know he's got, a couple new grandbabies that I'm sure he wants to spend time with. And, that's that's that's that. So that's. Okay. Commissioner DiDonato. Yeah I have a couple things. City manager, I don't I don't know what the procedure is now, but I've been asked by a couple citizens to look at, I think, but anyway, it's on him. Okay? MLK and is it Huey? I'll have to double check, but they they they're looking and saying that area could use a street light. So I don't know what procedure you use now to go about that. I think there were I think they're working on that. And we've got a team. If you haven't gotten to me, we've already got a team looking at that whole MLK, Dustin, the whole thing for lighting, sidewalks and stuff. Okay, if you'd have them get with me, I think. I think they're already dealing and identified that. But have them get with me for sure so I can get that team to evaluate what there is and stuff we're looking at that whole area, around that MLK Dist and Levis, that whole area for some improvement. So, so just have them contact me and we'll do some more. Yeah, the other thing, it was asked again about, continuation of Belcher and are we going to have a discussion of prioritizing some of our projects in the future? I'm sure that issue is going to come up sometime. It's coming up. That issue is going to when we get a full board. That's an issue that you decide when you want to hear it. And you want to make a final decision. So this thing, this thing's been lingering 20, 25 years. So yeah. Yes I imagine that's one of your major things. And that's on my list for Mr. Rudd, that it's going to be one of the major things that's going to be coming on the agenda. We can wait till he gets here. Yeah, and we'll be I'll be filling him all the whole since I've been involved in the whole history of it for 25 or more years, I'll let him know where we're at. Ultimately, it's a decision, and last but not least, I just want a point of clarification on on what was it? Item 13. When we're going to actually we're going to wait till the first to pick somebody or are we going to we could do it at 15th. Just make it effective. But the reason why I'm asking is I know people were here tonight that expected us to make some kind of decision in reality. In fact, on the on the agenda, it kind of implies that we would but we didn't discuss. We just only discussed the date that we would expect that, but we didn't really discuss how we're going to do it. So I'm just trying to clarify it, that's all. I'm not questioning. I'm trying to clarify the other question. I do do we also swear in the city manager you're going to be doing that? He'll be he'll be sworn in before he comes to work. Remember, he's going to be coming to work at 8:00. And then that would be that would be the first item on on the agenda. And again, I want to make it clear because the first is his night. So I'm here for three more months. So the passing of the torch is his night. So what is going to start the meeting off? The first is swearing him in and taking the seat. And we met for lunch when he was in town doing his physical preparing for that. So he'll get a swearing in to start in the morning. But an official, an official has he deserves here on that meeting. And that's and I don't want anybody saying that. Oh you didn't honor Mark. You know Mark may come later. This this is his night to start the first and going forward and passing the torch, we can talk about if you're going to say, you know, you're a nice or we're glad you're gone or whatever later and stuff. So just put up another seat here. Yeah, that'll be the first. That'll be the first item on the agenda is swearing him in and he'll take this seat and I'll be either by Irene or over by Renee, and I'll be there to participate. So my understanding is we will do this on the at the, on the first. There'll be almost like tonight with you swearing in. It'll be the, it'll be the first item I'm talking to now. I'm talking back to the process of deciding what we're going to do, whether we move somebody over or take a commissioner, or whether we put somebody directly in. I just want to clarify that. That's all I'm asking. No, we didn't, we. And whenever you're done with your comments, I'm going to ask, can we extend the meeting to 1110, make a motion, please. I'm. I'm done. Can I get a second, please? To extend it to just 11, ten. Okay You know, you can make a motion roll call. Make a motion? I make a motion. We extend the meeting. To 1110 second. No further comments. Roll call please. Commissioner DiDonato. Yes, Commissioner. Collins. Yes, Commissioner Eisner. Yes. Vice mayor. Yes, yes. You know, I first want to bring up mayor Vatikiotis. He. He did a great job of putting up with us. We were an eclectic group. There's no doubt about it. You know, his his leaving should bring us together a little bit more and. And wake us up a little bit. But I'll tell you what. He did a good job in helping me understand some of the comp plan. The strategic plan, and, understanding values in that mission statement and vision statement for the community. And so a lot of the hard work that he helped build a foundation for, and he even started fighting, as a commissioner, will not be lost, especially when we have, servants like ourselves who who believe in the strategic plan and, and our mission and vision statement for the community, so, so his work, you know, and his help for this community will continue as far as the appointment. You know, the residents I was speaking to, they were not happy with making an appointment. Right away today. And I even made it clear to the city manager, we're not just going to appoint somebody at the next meeting because people want to fill this seat so fast. And I'm telling you right now, you know, of course I'd like to be in the mayor's spot. Of course, Commissioner Koulianos would like to be in the mayor's spot, I'd like to support you, too, but I understand you know where you're at right now. There's no. So you have three people right now. We'd get you in, you know, so people. People that what we had three people that would support you for mayor. So you know so and I'm grateful. I'm grateful. So we understand your position. But I do, by not rushing this, you know, we don't have to hear certain things about, you know, power hungry or using the position as you know, leverage towards the future. And I mean that with all of us, because that's what it's going to be. We know it. You know? And that's why I'm serious. When I talk about prior mayors and stuff, you know, you brought up mr. Panther. He's. But he's not a prior mayor. He does have a lot of board experience. He has more than I believe us Board of Commissioners combined. A few of us besides you. Well, then all I'm saying, then let's define what we're going to do is, as I understand, August 1st is when we're supposed to have done something and I would like and I don't know, to this point, what we're doing, I would ask that we did have a list of people who wanted, I don't want just somebody says a name out of nowhere and says, you know, then we all vote on it. There should be a list of people who are interested in being appointed as mayor. There should be a list of people who are interested in being appointed as commissioner. And October first, if we pick a mayor from outside, we don't got to appoint anybody else. But if we appoint a mayor from inside in which I really discourage and you know, for many reasons, then we're going to have to appoint somebody to fill the commission seat. But we really have to ask ourselves, you know, I brought up mayor Alahouzos. He's not my favorite. I'm not sure about anybody else, but not stacking the deck towards anybody. And the guy's got experience. So, you know, just something to consider. I haven't even spoken to him, nor do I plan on it. But, you know, we talk about prior mayor experience and that I have a little grit for these five months. So just something to consider. But as, I think our making that appointment from within is not is not a good look, I'd like to have a consensus from this board to people who are interested to put their names in so the public can see what we're going to choose from. October 1st, as opposed to not have any names to choose from. And we're just putting names out there. I think that's transparent and giving the residents a few days to look over the backup material so that that's that's why I wanted to be October 1st, have 30 days to get people's names in whoever it is, and go from there because this is all it's been two weeks, but it's fairly fresh, you know. So how does everybody else feel? I mean, I, I appreciate that and that's what that's why we had the October 1st date. Yeah. So we weren't rushing. But at the same time I don't want to I don't want it to take two months like it did with me, so I think we're on the same page. The reason I picked the first is that we make a decision by the first. And then on the 15th, or the 14th, whatever. Is the. Is it the 14th just has to be before, like the 15th. Right. And that way the person can get sworn in on at the next meeting. So that way we meet the four days. I just didn't want us to cut it. That close, that if we get at some logjam or something, I don't the last thing we want is the governor to pick anybody. Right That that's the last thing we want. So the reason I picked the first is so we can coalesce, make our decision by the first that that they're not going to get sworn in that day. They'll be sworn in and then attend the meeting on the 15th. So that that's I think we're on the same page. But the magic day will be the 15th, right? So and as far as I, I, I don't I've not solicited this job. I'm, you know, I'm running for mayor. I'm, I'm more than happy to be mayor in April, I'm not soliciting this thing. Really. I'm not. I'm that's why I and when we were having this conversation, I knew we weren't picking anybody. Today, I was at. I just as a, as an example. There's a guy right there that that could that could do the job, and so if there's somebody else that comes up, then I'm more than happy to look at them as well, but that's where I'm at. So it's, it's I'm, I'm, I'm not soliciting this the job I'm going to I'm going to run for the office. And if, if I'm God willing and fortunate to get there, then that's fine. If not, then I got a lot of things to do with my life. So. So trust me, I'll be okay either way. Yeah, but I'm. I'm happy. I just think, by the way, we do it, we have a decision by the first that gives us a good a few weeks to do what we have to do. And then the 15th, that person pops in and we get going. Perfect. Yeah. I would say if we just have a list of those people during that backup item for October 1st, that would be great. That way people can see the potential candidates for the mayor or fill in for commission seat, because that different criteria, obviously, we have them submitted to the clerk's office, please. They have to. Maybe. Yeah. Because there absolutely has to be some, look, look at and to make sure that they're, they're qualified to be up here. So I think I think so letters of interest, whatever however you want to do it, maybe have them submit it to the clerk's office so she can verify and make sure that they're eligible to be, you know, appointed, you know, can I just make a quick comment, please, the last time the process we followed and we have it ready to go, so it would not delay us in any way. And that was the how we did it last time. They filled out the application and we had a whole packet giving them the charter and all the requirements, and they had to submit what people would submit when they come to run for office to make sure their, their resident, they've been a resident at least a year. All the qualifications that are required for someone to run. There you go. That's perfect, so other than that, it was, a privilege and honor and a blessing to be serving as the chair for tonight. It was really cool feeling. It's definitely a different feeling. I'm really upset I didn't get the public comments on item 13. It just slipped my mind with everything happening, I think. Go ahead sir. I too want to wish coastal well. I did do that because I had the other questions and I forgot. But I wish him well. I. I wish he would have stayed, but I wish him well. If there are no further comments before we close. Vice mayor, you did a good job. Thank you. I mean, one hiccup does not make a failure. It was a good job and other than than our that last item, I expected to be here past midnight. So you you kept things. I appreciate it. And I think you did a I think you did a really good job. Yeah, I just wanted to bring it forward so that people could talk. And then it slipped my mind. So I'm sorry. Thank you. All right, well, thank you all. That concludes the regular session. Meeting. Meeting adjourned at 11:07 p.m.