The Community Redevelopment Agency work session for the downtown Tarpon Springs Redevelopment Area. Thursday, November 13th at 12:30 p.m.
Roll call, please. Chair Collins, vice chair, Eisner here. Commissioner. Gulyas here. Commissioner DiDonato here. Commissioner. Panther here.
Okay, so today we're here to discuss the Tarpon registry. Go over the some of the more details of the project. And
it's going to be led off by. And actually this meeting will be basically run by our city manager Charles Rudd. So thank
you chair. Mayor. What I reason I want to do a workshop was a little more informal setting. So you guys can can we can talk about the agreement and the project and really hopefully
through a consensus be able to when we bring it to you for a vote, a CRA meeting. We've kind of worked out the details and it's much easier vote for us. So today is to is to be
informal and to have a discussion about things you'd like to see or the items I want to go through very quickly, the the points of the agreement as we have them so far. And then I'll turn it over to Casey.
She'll talk about some of the requests that were made for the project and the site plan. You'll see in the agreement. It references an attached exhibit. And so she'll talk about that and the facade treatment and so
forth. So what I've done is sort of taken the agreement and put it in bullet points for each item within the agreement, we have a we'll be selling it as is to them for a purchase
price of $25,000 will be cash paid at closing. We did ask, the applicant asked rather than a bond, they want those the money for a bond to go into the project that we do an
irrevocable letter of credit, which we staff was good with in an amount that would be acceptable to the CRA. And we'll talk a little bit more about that later. The closing
would occur within ten days of these items. Site plan approval, conditional use approval and the Certificate of Appropriateness approval from the HPB. The CRA will convey
the property title by special warranty deed. Will provide title commitment within 20 days of the effective date. The developer will pay all the closing costs. Each side will pay their own legal fees and
the developer will comply with obviously with all of our city codes, ordinances, rules and so forth, and they'll allow us use of the property until the time when the site development
begins, which and Andy, we probably need to put a caveat in there about will provide certificate of insurance to them with them as additional insured for special events. The
exhibit B will be attached, which will be the site plan. And basically they agree to to substantial compliance with the site plan. Obviously they haven't gone through site plan
review, but the idea is the general intent will be will be shown to you and they'll agree to stick with that intent, and then they'll go through our more rigorous site plan review process. We will provide full
impact fee credit, which means the CRA will pay the general fund or the enterprise funds the impact fees, and then we'll credit the permitting fees and we'll do expediting permitting,
which will provide them an abundance of assistance, pre-meetings and so forth. Pre-application meetings to really help them through this process. Shepherd. Through this process, we will reimburse them
the cost of their initial proposal, which was in the invitation to to negotiate. That was stipulated there as a as part of the process. And then we will amend our special
area plan, which is necessary to for the allowable to allow the density that they're needing for the accommodations. And then finally, we'll agree to make improvements to the
streetscapes on Court and Tarpon. So on Court Street, there's just a broken up drive apron and a sidewalk concrete sidewalk. Beside it. There's a nice brick sidewalk, the neighboring property. So we'll
continue that brick across and out to the curb and create tree wells around those palm trees on the front. They have agreed to the balcony, which was brought up, so we will need to
remove the two trees that are out front to make way for that balcony. And we agreed to remove, probably underground, the power line that runs across. That appears to be strictly for
those cobra lights that are in place, or we'll have the Cobra lights removed. And then the buyback provision, basically we would we if we if that gets triggered, we would buy the
land back for what we sold it, plus the appraised value of any improvements that have been done or with the with the letter of credit, we could call the letter and then and finish the project. You know, if it's
it's very close to completion, we would have that option. And then finally, I think the the agreement still needs some milestones. In other words, if you know, if they haven't. And I think we ought to be generous
in that, if it's been two years and maybe things have happened in people's lives and it's just not going, it triggers that buyback. We get the land back and we would start over. So with that, I'll turn it over to
Casey to talk more about sort of the the site plan and the considerations. You all have made some requests and some suggestions and how they've
dealt with those. Hi. Good afternoon. Hey. Good afternoon. So when we last saw you guys, we kind of talked through. I heard what everyone said at the
end of that meeting when we when we voted, we didn't want to sleep a hotel. Right. We wanted to be sure there was something for the public. We addressed the safety concerns. So when Joe and I went back after that meeting, we started
looking at third floor, that ground level. And today, what we want to talk through with you is how that conversation really strengthened what that first floor is going to look like. But the idea of a roof deck is not going forward in
our plan. When we looked at going up to the third floor and bringing the public up there, that required the elevator come to the front of the property, and that would make Court Street go dark again. Right. And part of our intent is to
help activate Court Street, as well as operationally kind of getting things from first floor up to the third floor for, you know, bar food, etc. And then that being the elevator that's kind of running up with our
guest and the public. So what we did is we kind of went back and reworked the first floor. So the first floor does have an opportunity for the public to come and use that space. Right? It's not on the third floor,
it's on the first, but it really will help activate that area. And then Joe's also going to kind of show some stuff with the overhang on the balcony. We knew that was something really important. So I think we hit
all of those marks based on that first feedback. Yeah. Well well said. So essentially that idea of having the rooftop lounge when we really develop that and like Casey said, not only moving the elevator to the
front but moving the whole hotel lobby to the front, it really changed the whole ground floor, and it made it to to the point where we had a real front of the house and we had a back of the house, which was all
service. And that wasn't our intent from the beginning was to make a really active ground floor. But thank you for pressing us on that roof deck, because that's what enabled us to bring that into the ground floor. And we think it's come
back and even stronger, very active. Not only do we have the through block connection from the courtyard, but now you can actually walk all the way through from the retail. And there's active uses all the way through. Did you want to talk
about the micro retail at all? Sure. So the original ground floor had had those three spots in the courtyard that showed, you know, specific buildings for small pop ups. Right. Micro retailers, what we've done is we've removed those and kind of
opened up that inside lobby, that breezeway, if you will, to the courtyard, you know, really open that up so that if you walk in from the front of the building or the back of the building, you get full exposure
of the ground floor. And then we strengthen the event space on the back side of the building. So with those events could be pop ups that we will still get to meet that need that's, you know, important of giving folks that opportunity
to pop up, right. And kind of meet their market before they go in and create these other businesses. But every day, activation of that ground floor won't be centered around it. We did get the results of a feasibility study back as as we
thought it was. It was financially feasible not only for the second floor, but for the third floor scheme as well, for a total of 24 hotel rooms. The the the market report was a
little lacking in our opinion, from the feasibility study, but it focused mainly on the financial feasibility, which we which does work better because our expenses, you know, remain relatively fixed. We have more
revenue. So we would like to continue to pursue the third floor option if you all are open to it. And then the other thing is, so we just got this feasibility study back and just started looking at the third
floor just last week and looking at some design studies. So we really quickly put some elevations together with the overhang balcony. We have not had a chance to go through and
meet with historic preservation or even closely reviewed the the guidelines for historic preservation. So we didn't want to, you know, put it out and put it on record. But I do have
a copy here of what we're looking at. Are we able to give some paperwork to be viewed by the, by the board to pass it around, or do you want us to
make copies or just. No, just pass it around. Yeah. Would that be okay? Yeah I think.
Legally. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Start over here. What you're about to see is, is really a concept. As I said, we'd like
to refine the design before before going on on record with it. But we do think the overhang balcony does add character. It's more appropriate with the third floor massing as well. Instead
of bringing the columns all the way out to the street edge, we brought them back to about seven feet from the face of the building, and that gives us a little a little bit of a, a
little bit of buffer between the curb to put some potted plants also provide a little bit of, you know, egress for people opening their doors as they're parked there, things of that nature. So we really don't
need the full ten feet depth for the balcony, but we're very happy with it. We think it works well. We'd like to hear your your thoughts on it and see if there are any, you know, outstanding, outstanding issues
as we go through negotiation with that setback with those trees still need to come out. They do, you know. And I looked at them yesterday. I didn't mark them on the survey, but it actually looks like we only
need them to go out like five more feet on either side. So if we want to relocate the trees or plant new trees, I think we could accommodate that. They just can't stay exactly where
they are. Okay. Second. And then we also provided a a milestone schedule from our staff meeting last week. We've
just modified that on, you know, different approvals and, you know, the order of operations for all that that's in the back of that package as well. I
provide that to Renee as well. Yes, they're the same. Thank you. Presentation. Yeah. So
let's let's go through and and have we can have commissioner comments and questions. And the questions can go you know to the the Redevelopers I don't
know why do we call them Redevelopers. They're developers right. Yeah. You could call them the applicant or the developer or the developer team. We could do it however you want it. I think
developer sounds appropriate. Yeah. I didn't know what you were redeveloping because it's already been approved. And we have staff here as well from various departments. So let's do that. Let's just go Commissioner by commissioner we
can ask questions, but we can ask of anybody here. So the are these I don't know who was familiar with the project. I
know you weren't here then when we had the prior deal that we made on that property. I can't remember who it was with, but
CrossFit, I think. Yeah, did Karen's familiar with what was the what were the buyback provisions in that? Did did it ever go to closing. Did that
project ever go to closing? No it didn't. It went through negotiations. But at the time, what the buyback was similar. But we didn't we didn't we
didn't close on it. So okay. So it was never there was never any. No no. Okay. Thank you. So and how does the that letter of
credit work in terms of calling it in or. Yeah I mean are we are we are we guaranteeing the letter of credit. Is that the
city guaranteeing the letter of credit? I think we can address that. Yeah. So typically in the past when it's something you would use in lieu of a bond
from the developer. So the letter of credit essentially they provide a letter of credit. That is it's essentially it's as good as cash. That would
fully finance the project if they walked away or whatever. They're getting their own. Yes, they're they're getting the letter of credit. We are the beneficiary of that if necessary. So we're not on the
hook for the letter of credit. Okay. And then as far as the third floor is concerned I understand it makes sense what you're saying. I know that you
know, it's it's what complicates is, is you have a hotel there, you got people going up and then activities happening from up there, and
then you have people that are trying to sleep in their room, you know, and that could be a problem. But so but downstairs
there could be activity that goes on a little later than normal. Right. Yes. There would be. Okay. Yes. And that probably accommodates the
resident, the the guest of the hotel a little better. Exactly. Using some of that space to activate it for our locals, not just for tourists. Okay, good.
And then as far as the also on the third floor, you know, I, I'd like to see, you know, I see your rendering, but I, I'd
like to see it as it sets the in downtown. Right. Like I'd like to see that building and then see it next to everything else. Okay. I think the second,
the second option there. Yeah it it should. That's the real scale of all the existing context. So why don't you talk about. Yeah. But it doesn't really show much referring to
this. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It doesn't really show I mean I yeah I see it, but that these aren't even like real things. Yeah. It's the right elevation of it. Yeah I get it, I get it.
But I if you wouldn't mind kind of letting. And the public wants to see it. Right. What is this going to look like in downtown again. It's going to be the highest building in
downtown. Yes. You know, and again, I don't want to micromanage a project because, you know, you need to have the space. You know, you need to make as much return on the
space as you can to make this a viable project. But, you know, we had I think we had discussed possibly having two storey, having the third set back
slightly so that when you're on the street, you from the from somebody, a pedestrian, they don't really see the third floor, they see the second floor as the sight line, which
then kind of blends in more with everything else down there versus having it all right at the the face. Sure. So that may be something you might want to
consider. Yeah. We we actually did look at that. And we were when we were considering the rooftop lounge, we were contemplating setting back that third floor. The challenge is that if we set back the third
floor on the hotel, we lose those rooms along Tarpon Avenue from where the where the stairs drop. And, you know, just basically how the site has to organize. So when we were doing the the balcony studies, we
thought that the balcony provided that same sort of step back and mass. And that's why we didn't put a roof over the balcony and we just kept it. Basically, there's the first balcony and then there's the
second balcony and then not a roof, so that that mass does step back before it hits the building again. I think if, if we could see it. Sure. In, in,
in reality of the actual buildings that are there now with your building put in that it would give us a better sense of where it is. We can do that. Commissioner Banther. Yes.
Thank you. I had questions too, about the letter of credit, but those have been answered either Charles or Renee. What would be some triggers in the callback? Are those yet to be set, or generically speaking, I guess
what would usually be the be those triggers? For me it's it's mostly time, you know, if it's if it's becomes obvious. You know, I think right now the construction timeline is two
years, right? Total development, total development time is two years. So I think if it's been in my view, it's been a couple of years and it's obvious whatever came in the way, they're not going to work it
out, that we would have the option to go and buy it back. And those will be set forth by staff and then, I assume, proposed to us as the board when. Well, I'm, I'm curious to hear what may be on your minds
in terms of what would trigger that. Again, I recommend being generous because we our goal isn't to get it back, it's to give them the time they need. I mean, I would think three years would would be sufficient, but
an extra year in there for the unforeseen. I'm sure something's going to happen. So we know with some of our projects, some things happen and it may slow it down. Perfect. Okay. And so as I understand it, the ground floor
is all public space per se. And there's the second and third stories. All all like bedrooms. Correct. So nobody would be going up there unless they had a room. Exactly. Okay. I like
that a lot better than the rooftop bar and stuff. I know that's esthetically sounds nice, and it could be, but if you're staying in the hotel, I think it's going to be nice to have residents on the top and then
public on the bottom. And you said a total of now 24 rooms with the third story. Yeah. And and you and you touched on that briefly, but you said there was a feasibility study. You said
that had that has that had that had some like some like concerns for that, for that, for that, for that, for that, for that like amount of rooms or. No. So when we came before you and we proposed the two
floor option, once we were awarded the ITN, we released a feasibility study that is also tied into our our financing. And that study was required anyway. So in that study we had
them look at basically the 12, the 12 room, the 24 room and do some comparisons. And they ran through the numbers and really just verified a lot of our assumptions with it. So you, you feel comfortable with with
the with the 24 rooms, you can withstand that. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Excellent. And I think that that's pretty much it for now. I'm very excited. I'm I'm,
I'm, I'm, I'm very excited about this project as a whole. Thank you. Thank you Commissioner I, I just want to make one comment. So we're saying 24 rooms, it could be 22 rooms if there are some suites
on that third. Yeah, that makes sense. Understood. Thank you. Where I would stay. Is that what? You're presidential? Mike?
Micro rooms. Commissioner DiDonato. His own name. Suite up there. The eyes are suite hanging out on the balcony. That's what's going to be on my
tombstone. He was funny. Sorry. So he thought he was. He was. I just had a few a few things that I basically. You've taken
care of that already. I, I felt that the individual or the shorter segmental balconies, I thought it should be continuous.
And I see you've done that. I understand that the rooftop situation, if I was in on the third floor and in a room trying to sleep and it was a
little rowdy, I don't know that I would appreciate that either. However, I may have missed what you said about the first floor in the opening. Are you going to make that big bigger, I
think is what, 15ft now? You would reject it or is it going to stay at 15 or. Yeah, the courtyard will still stay the same size. We will just have now more space in the middle that will open up to that
courtyard. And within that space you've got more of a lounge environment, right where you've got a small bar, you've got the market where people can, you know, grab something to eat. You've got some tables and chairs where people can meet up,
as well as that outside seating area. I think that concept and what could work really well, I have some concerns in the summer with rains and with heat,
and I'm sure you've thought about that. I don't know what your ideas there are, but I think that that should be considered depending upon what you actually end up putting
down there. But I find the whole concept a good concept. And I'm I'm pretty familiar with going through this process
of, of the buybacks and those scenarios. But we we wish you much success. And I think it will meld into a lot for our community. So really the things
I wanted to say today to change you've you've done it already. So but enhancing that first floor open area I think would. But then consider this the sun
factor and the heat factor and rain that's you know, the last few weeks we've gone on some field trips, if you will, and looked at some other areas that have boutique hotels, and we looked at how their setup was
and how their first floor was, and we saw some areas when we were in Saint Pete that did have courtyard areas, but there weren't people in there, right, because it was warm when we were there, but there were people inside. So that is a
consideration of if there's not if there's nowhere for them to be inside and it's only outside, what do you do ten months of the year? So the big change on the ground floor too, is that when we came before you, before
we had those micro retail. So we had the three block connection that you go through and pass through the courtyard. And we were hoping to grab traffic to, to patronize those, those micro retail units. But
the challenge was, is that those micro retails weren't connected with the retail in the front. And so what we've done now is that whole center section where we had the micro retail now becomes the lounge. And we're we're looking to grab
traffic as they come through into the courtyard, into the building and then pass through into Tarpon Avenue. You can continue to still walk through as you as you could before, but now you can also pass through
the retail. So we think it'll work a little bit better. That's all I have, Commissioner. Yes, well, I got a few more demands, but no, it looks good.
I did, I did provide a sheet just. And you can share it with them if you want to. Just give it to them. Basically where you know how much I've been trying to push to have some type of viewing or experience for this
community, because at the end of the day, I want to make it clear to this board, we're not building a parking garage or have this assumption to build one so everybody can go to the
antique shops. Okay, things are changing in this community, and we have to try to bring a vibrancy to it. I'm curious. So,
Casey, it looks like this bottom floor where you had the micro shops, you're basically going to pull that out, make it more of a lounge restaurant place. Not much. No, not a
restaurant, not a kitchen. And if we if we would have gone up to the third floor and there was a restaurant up there, right? And there was an elevator in front and an elevator in the back. Like that
would be a completely different ball game, right? But that doesn't make sense for this project at this time in Tarpon, to try to put a restaurant on the third floor, will you say at this time for Tarpon? Why do
you believe that? What do you mean? That's I guess, what I should say is that that's not a part of the hotel project to put a restaurant on the third floor, okay? Where it really starts to get really, really
starts to get convoluted. And we spent weeks looking at it and looked look at it very hard and in many, many different ways. But in our original proposal, the hotel entrance is
on courtyard and there's on court and there's a small elevator lobby that's worked for after hours access so patrons can get to the hotel
and to the elevator. So when we when we put that active space on the roof up along Tarpon Avenue, the strange thing was, is in order to get up there, you had to go to the back of
the building, go up the elevator, then go all the way through the corridors with all of the hotel rooms to get to that active area, which didn't make sense. So that's why we moved the elevator core to the front. But when we did that,
that also moved that little lobby space for the hotel to the front and minimize the amount of space that we had for retail along Tarpon Avenue. And then the question was, what do we put on court, you know, to,
to to replace that? But if you look at the typical level where the hotels are, the challenge was now you have general public coming up to the top in different operating hours, but then you have hotel guests as
well, sort of sharing that same circulation. So there had to be a good cut off of, you know, what was accessible by hotel guests, what was accessible by the public. And it is not to say that it's impossible, but
it adds a lot of additional challenges, a lot additional costs. And we started looking at expanding. It started out as like a wine lounge that we were looking at, and then we were like, well, let's do small
plates of food. So let's put a catering kitchen up there. Now we have to get food and we have to get trash back down. We're using the same elevator as the guests. So there were a ton of logistical challenges for a
small project like this, as a reason why we decided to move back to the floor. It takes traffic off Tarpon Ave, right? It takes them off Tarpon Ave and up to the third floor where, you know, we're looking to keep
the traffic on Tarpon Ave and move it around. What is your current f.a.r that you're looking at? It's a 2.0 with the third floor. Yeah, but the am I
assume the second floor is going to be built from front to back and so is the third. Right. And then the bottom floor. Miss Vincent, you may be able to
help me, but the bottom floor has got to have some type of f.a.r that I'm looking at. Correct. The way they have it listed. So it's, it's it's definitely above a 2.0. The lots like 80 500ft■!S or somethg
like that. And we have 16,000ftS of buildable area. It's, it's right at a 2.0. Explain sir would you floor area ratio. Basically the amount the amount
of floor area. And then 2.0 means you can double the floor size of the of the property. But if I, if I remember right, it's permitted by right two
storeys 2.0. But conditional use to be used 2.0 and a three story scenario. So is it because of the courtyard space that's open? Yeah. Could you
help Miss Vincent? You could elaborate a little bit more. So the it's the. Think of it in terms of the gross floor area.
Not so. Yes. Anything that's if it's, you know, not under roof. If it's not enclosed space, it's generally not going to count against your floor area ratio. So I haven't taken a deep dive on their project. But
you know but this area this first floor is under a roof. Right. That courtyard would be open space. Our total our total
gross floor area is about 16,000ft■!S over three floors. o it ends up being a 2.0 f.a.r because the lots, you know, around 8000ft■!S, even though is
on three floors. But that's because we've opened the courtyard in the middle, and then we have the three block connection on the on the ground floor. I just have to see like basically what you have this
first floor, I guess I have to see it in stories two and three, because I don't know how you're going to build. Basically, you have to build half a building going north to south. I believe if you're going to keep the
first floor open, it's got a roof over it because you have to have the other rooms, I believe. So I just yeah, I got to see how it looks. But I'm going to follow up with the mayor. The reason why I had
really wanted to push a setback on the third roof, obviously for entertainment purposes two, but was not to make sure the downtown was built out of scale. If you built the third story
from front to back, it is going to be out of scale. And it's that's a big concern because I don't mind going up. I don't even mind going up a certain percentage above the f.a.r, but
I don't want the building to look out of scale with the rest of them. And that's why the mayor was I understand what the mayor was coming out with it, and I guess I just need to see
more of what this layout is going to be that way. 24 rooms is a lot. I know we're saying it's feasible, but where's the parking right now for it? You
know, if we really don't have parking for that, unless somehow we get a parking garage and I know we're not even supposed to use the code. The code doesn't matter for what you build over there, so I'm
completely aware of that. I just don't want to go ahead and make you guys think I'm going to approve something that's going to be built out of scale just to get 24 rooms in there. And so I wanted to look sharp.
There's got to be a setback of some sort, and you're going to have to give up a few rooms regardless. You know, I do have enough. Just to piggyback on what he's saying, that we can
have conversation here. You know, that that could create a premium rooms up on top, right? Because they could have those rooms could have balcony space. So they could be set back and
and obviously they become premium. It's not a super setback but it, it it can't go front to back on that third floor. It will look out of scale for the rest of the
downtown. I can show you that upper floor if you bring it on down. Thanks. So it sits right on top of there. So so so that's open a little bit. This
is this is the long Tarpon Avenue. We have four rooms here. And then along Court Street it doesn't go the full. See the width. So that's about a third
of the property. So if you have that and you can actually see on the new plan there that this dotted line here is the open area right here there's a dotted line. That's the that's
the dotted line of the floors up above including the balconies. So that courtyard stays open for three floors. Those rooms are hovering over
the open space. Yeah. It's just straight up the courtyard inside. Yes. So it's not like there's any roof above. No, the
the open space. No. Those were those were better images. So basically if you're looking at it from if you're basically looking at it from the southeast right at it, it's
going to look a little bit more like an L in a way. Yeah. Okay. And that's consistent with the, the rest of the renderings that we did in the, in the ITN of
the courtyard. Those are all, you know, I mean, the minor changes to them, but conceptually they're all the same. It would just be another level like the second floor that we had. This is a good
this is a good picture I believe. What. Yeah. Maybe this board should should look at. But basically seeing that that would be another another floor out there. Commissioner. Those are that's the original ITN. So
those that was what we originally submitted for approval. We just tried to rework the concept of the first floor to get a lounge environment down there and then figure out that third floor, two floors is feasible for our
project. Right. But we had heard loud and clear, we need more than two storeys, right? We need more. So that was where we didn't want to go through and finalize all of these renderings until we had a
conversation with you guys to get feedback on what we've learned and where we're headed. And then we will, you know, pass them out and have them on the screens and do all that. Thank you for providing that.
That shows a lot more open space. And with the F.a.r. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. First floor looks okay. I'd like to see some more renderings just to have an idea.
Still would like somewhat of a setback because if you're still looking at it from the northwest, looking back down, it still will look out of scale from that one side a little bit. So maybe even just a area just
for the hotel guests, you know? So just something to consider. But it looks good. And I appreciate you following up with this because that was a big difference maker looking at
it. Yeah. Does staff have any. Do you want me to speak. You spoke but you can speak again. Thank you. So I don't know who
said what at this point, but I'm because I'm last speaker and then we can go back again. Oh that's right. You didn't speak, I didn't speak, I just tell jokes. But anyway, you
were speechless. Nothing happened. That was that was not going to happen. So I do want to see a rendering of what it
looks like, you know, from both angles. Because like I said, this is an AI type, you know, thing. Not not your registry, but the stores. So I'd like to
see what it looks like going east and going west as well. So one of my questions, of course, was 12 or 24. We got that
answered. I wanted a list of the reasons for possibly a buyback, which was also asked as well. I was curious how many
stores you had on the first floor, but that's now there's none. Or is that what? So the Tarpon registry retail will be on Tarpon Avenue, right. So that's branded hotel items okay. And then there'll be the market
in there that's got grab and go food items that can be enjoyed in the courtyard can be enjoyed upstairs beer, wine, prosecco, splits. And then there'll be the lounge area for folks to get to enjoy from the inside. With a bar set up that's beer
and wine as well, and small bites. So are you going to be preparing these grab and goes on premise? Yep. Will either be creating them, making them ourselves in the kitchen that's on that first floor. You'll see
in the back there's like a small caterer's kitchen or it's something that will have brought in. Okay. Yeah, I didn't really get a chance to look through this, you know, because we just got it. But I
would love to know also what the schematic which was said for the second floor or possibly the third floor as well. So we can have an idea of what that looks like on all
three floors or two floors, whichever you're deciding to do. I still have a you know, one of
my questions was to did you remove the side balcony? But that was just shown that you have that still present, the side balcony, meaning the balconies in the rooms that are on the inside of the courtyard?
Yes, yes. The rooms that are on the inside of the courtyard would have a balcony that overlooks the courtyard. But in the photo you have, we spoke about you putting in like some
sort of a gate to keep people out. That's not in here though. Well, so it is. And and it always has been. So where you see the entrance on the front on Tarpon Avenue, there's a
hole on the right. That's the entrance during the daytime, at night a gate would close there as well as on the backside of the property, so that when we're not in operation, there's
no one. It's right. Yeah. We just didn't put the gate on there, vice Mayor Eisner, but that's that's been the intention all along with both openings. And then it would be this would close down. Okay.
I'm sorry. So how would you. Thank you, I got that. How would you restrict? Because this is this is going to be the infamous thing is the homeless.
How do you restrict homeless hours? No. During the day. Well, if they come in and they shouldn't be there for whatever reason, we'll ask them to leave. I this morning at my shop, I
had a gentleman come in that had no business being in my store, and I asked him to leave if he would have pushed back. We all knew that if he came back to the door, I was going
to call non-emergency. We deal with that as shop owners and probably the restaurants would agree today downtown, so there would be nothing different from then to here. I know what you're saying. The whole thing with me is I'm not looking to
encourage more spots. And the other the other thing is in your shop, you get to see who's in front over here. You're not
really seeing what's going on on the side. And, you know, my thing was, I know that you wanted to do this side. To me,
it looks nice, but it overlooks the rooftops of the people of storefronts that I don't think are are attractive to anybody
to look at. And my thought as I passed out, I don't I didn't do what Commissioner Kulas has done with setting this up, but I think I did give you a copy
of any sort of could it possibly be moved back somewhat and have that seating area in the front? Yeah. The first thing, creating another area
for homeless to congregate. I think we should figure out as a city how to help the homeless population downtown instead of being concerned of of creating more areas for them to
congregate. The side balconies. We did throw the drones up months back, like March. We sent drones up from the field to kind of see what they were looking at. And then we referred back to that as well
when we were looking at the third floor. Right. Because what kind of a view would they have? And the rooftops look just fine for those balconies, you know, to be able to to see out. The third thing that you
mentioned was setting the floor or the building back. I'll let Joe talk to that. But it seems like from what I've gathered in those conversations, you know, that we've had is historically, I don't think HPV, HPV would
approve a building being set back. And it also doesn't add any value to that building. So that courtyard on the inside is where is where folks could congregate, not in the front of
the building. When all the other buildings are lined up on the street. That's true. I just don't know if this would be overbearing. As commissioner
said earlier. Also, you know, and as the mayor said, I would love to see what it looks like from both angles. Yeah, not up close because the building is beautiful, there's no doubt
about it. But I want to see what it looks like in our town from all angles, from a distance away, so that we could really get a visual of what it
actually will do. You know, for the for the city. So I would love to have that with, you know, actually maybe even a photograph. And then you superimpose the registry in
there because I like I said, the you know, the project itself is gorgeous. There's no doubt about it. I just want to see how it fits in the town.
And so I'd like to see that. And then, you know, personally, like I said, I, I'd like to see it back further. It's not a hill I'm going to die on. If
you feel it's better to have it on the side. You're the you know, you're the design and I just I don't want to have more places for people to hide as
the police are sitting here. I just know it's just. I know you deal with it. I don't want to give them more things to deal with. When it's in the front and it's open, they drive by.
They see it when it's on the side. They have no knowledge of what's there unless you call. And I don't know whether we can just have the rules and regulations to just call for
any other reason. That's why we've taken I'm sure you know, we've taken benches out because people are sleeping in there. There's been suggestions of people putting in single
benches with single seats in between so that you can't. And when I look at this, I see a beautiful place for someone to stretch out. So that courtyard,
like when you're walking to through from Tarpon Avenue, there's not much that's like enclosed. Once you get through there, that's all open. The way that the point of sale system, right, where staff would always
be. Of course there can be staff around the property, but when you look at that, it's on the far wall. And when you're standing in that point of sale, you've got access to both entries. That's all open, as well as those doors into that
courtyard. Will you talk about the height of the rooms and how we work through that from a mass perspective, as well as we also talk to help? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So on the setback, if we were to setback
the building like that, even if historic preservation would allow it, what it does is it takes space out of that courtyard. It makes the courtyard smaller. But the big challenge is that it would take rooms out because we'd
basically be we'd be shortening the whole building. And the whole reason why we have that courtyard is to allow hotel rooms in that middle section of the site, because the because
the site is so long and skinny, that's how we were able to accommodate the rooms. So by pushing the building back, it's squeezing all that out. It would take rooms and it would take them out of the courtyard,
as Casey mentioned, for the for the height, for the three stories, we have a 14 foot floor to floor on the first level. And then we were looking at 12 foot, but we just felt it
was it was really out of scale. Yeah. So what you see in those renderings is ten foot floor to floor, which we can still make work with the hotel rooms. I think we'll end up with like a
nine foot clear in some areas, but we felt it brought the scale down, you know, substantially and felt it felt a lot better. Also adding the balcony because we looked at it with and without the balcony
and adding the balcony with the columns we felt also really helped break down that scale. You know, to get that step back effect. But I don't want to, you know, I don't want to lead anybody in a different way.
There's no three story buildings in downtown, which is why we proposed the two story building originally, because we felt that it was more we didn't want to shock people. We didn't have the opportunity to have a
workshop like this or talk to the public. We didn't want to come in with three story building that felt like it was out of scale. The downtown Tarpon, that's why we did propose to. So I wanted to clarify something. Sorry. I
wanted to just clarify something. My my suggestion of moving the building back was to do away with the side, not to be both. We can't fit the hotel
rooms in there, but if you do away with the side, then we don't have that three block connection, which was another goal of the project to move people between tarpon and court. Right? So if we didn't have
that three block connection, is that what you're thinking? If we took that that off. Yes. Yes. Okay. I can show you on that upper floor plan if you'd like to see my approach before we
spend a whole lot of time on pushing the building back. Does any other commissioner wish to push the building back? No, sir. No, I don't know. Okay, so I think we're I appreciate it,
but I think we spend a lot more time on that. It's wasted time technically, with that walkway. It is somewhat set back. Yeah, it is here. Yeah. Go ahead. Are
you finished? Sorry, I think I just was finished. One item for discussion that I realized I neglected to put in the. What the city will provide is they
have requested four spaces on Court Street that don't currently exist. It's where the apron would be. We would. They were asking for them. Dedicated for. People can stop there,
check in, unload their luggage and then then have them move across the Pinellas Avenue to an empty lot. So that's that's one of the impetus. We're now
doing a trial two hour parking on Tarpon, that one block to see if we can turn over the parking there more readily. Those folks were requesting that. So this might speak to
that. While we consider we're going to dedicate four spaces on Court Street to enable check in at the hotel. I need to get
your feelings on that. I think four would be great for them. I'm not sure about the rest of them. Close by. I settle hopefully at least between 2 or 3 if the support was there. But
if it's four is the vote then force a vote. But they need some to unload. I mean, they got to have the convenience to be able to pull in and out, you know, not parallel. They can just, you know, that little
angle spot, do what they need to do, then park across the street. But I don't see why we can't at least get 2 or 3. I do have a question about parking. Yeah, sure. Is there? This might sound silly, but it
wouldn't be all the time. But is there any opportunity for like, you know, like a like a valet service? If you had a large event or something, you can, you can. I don't know how that works with like public lots, but I assume something
can be done. Correct as valet would be great there. Yeah. Okay. Good. You know, I walked around downtown with Joe Kokolakis and we were just looking, just making
observations about downtown. And, you know, we have 75 spots behind the old flagship bank building. And you and I have had conversations about, you
know, and, and and I'm a bad golfer. And I could hit a pitching wedge from there to downtown. Okay. So it's not a long walk, but we're not. It's just nobody's using it even
when we're super busy and you can't find a spot in downtown, that lot's always wide open. So we've got to utilize that that
lot. And we've got to first get attention for people to know to park there. And we got to get, you know, the the proper walkway so people know okay to
flow, you know. Across the street and come up to the light and come downtown. Because we really do have a lot of parking there. You know, even first Friday there's you can find
parking in that lot, but for just regular, you know, Saturday afternoon visitors coming to shop downtown there is that parking. But again, it's not being used. And so
that's something that I think we need to focus on. But like Commissioner Banther said, you know, you could have a valet where you just, you know, drive cars across the street and have some, some young person run
back to the, to the hotel. So and you if you go to any of these communities where you go to Savannah, you go to Charleston, South South Carolina, you go to any of those places that are that have
this, you know, the kinds of hotels you're talking about, those little boutique hotels. You don't park right there, you know, you you most of the time it's valet and somebody goes
and takes your car and they might take your car, like in Savannah. They take your car like four blocks away and some and some fast kid runs back and gets the next car. So, so I
think we, you know, I it can but like the commissioner said, I think it can work. You know, it's it's, you know, downtown like. We talked about private
public partnerships. Right. Which is this is what we're doing here. This is it's a private enterprise working with government to accomplish
something to make our city go forward. And, you know, that's probably going to be the answer when it comes to the whole parking thing with parking garage. And and I can express my opinion on it. And the
commissioners all have theirs. I don't I'm not I don't I'm not in favor of parking garage for what's there now because you guys have no offense. You have adequate parking. Okay. It
would be to expand downtown to make it more vibrant, have more opportunities going down Safford Avenue. You know, going farther up Pinellas, having more activities and creating an
expanding the downtown. To me, that's worth that investment because I don't want a significant investment to build a parking garage or even having somebody else, like in Dunedin and New Port Richey, those parking garages are owned
privately and then lease back to the city. So but they're not cheap. And so I think that that and carrying that one step
further, I know this isn't about this, but it kind of is a little bit. And it kind of goes with what Commissioner Coleus is, has been always looking for.
So and again, I, I tend not to you know, you know we're all and I have no idea what these four other people do on their, on their own time. You know,
we're always trying to do things to help create some something in the town. Right. So but we can't always I can't share it because we have
sunshine laws. And you also don't want to bring attention to something that is in the works that, you know, somebody can then, you know, if you if
you were privately considering buying something to go do something and I and you were talking to me about it, and I go tell everybody in town I could mess up your project, but
I don't mind telling this one. I found a piece of property for the Agora Downtown project, and I've connected them with the owner of the property. It's
going to be very close to where you guys are. It's close to downtown, and it looks like it's a possibility that we get the best of both worlds because we like that project. We just
didn't like it for that spot, but we didn't. We were happy to have it in downtown. I think everyone expressed that opinion. So, you know, we're going to try to do all these things. But
I really I and again, I don't I'm not trying to shut this down. But we kind of put an hour for this meeting. But I really appreciate what you guys are doing. And I think this is
a beautiful project and we're really excited to see it happen. You saw a couple concerns we have, and I think you can address those and come back to us, but I'm excited about it. I
think everybody else is excited about it. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So I think we sounds like we're aiming for the December CRA meeting. I think from what I'm hearing, we still got some
tweaks on your end. And we finalized the language. Gives you time to. You mentioned not want to show renderings till you go to HPB, but we need to see it in the to have the
conversation and look at the requirements before we then presented it and said this is what it was. And then we get pulled back in HPV, HPV. So we just wanted to be sure that we had flushed through all of that
before we said to you guys this would we know would check this off. What you could do, though, is you're welcome to have private conversations with all of us. Okay. So if you do some design things and you want to
create like you can come actually meet here wherever you'd like in City Hall, and you could have, you know, 30 minutes, 45 minutes with each one of us. Okay. And back to
back to back. And that way you can express everybody can have a chance to talk to you and see it themselves and have have more interaction with you again. And then we can come back
publicly together. And then you maybe you can incorporate thoughts you got from everyone without again, we can't you can't share it in the sense that you tell me what Commissioner Gulyas said to you.
Whatever. But you can have interaction with us individually if you like. So we would like that. Is would everybody like to have that meeting once those renderings are so that we can have.
Wonderful. Yeah that would be good okay. I can set that up when you guys let us know when you're ready. Yeah. Okay. Let me give you more of a feeling to to and we had asked a few
weeks ago if we were allowed to have these conversations. And that's where we thought this type of an environment would be better to start. So I'm happy that we can start meeting individually. Yeah. Well,
unless anybody else has any further questions. Quick question. Another question. Also consider before we have this parking issue, I'm sure you may have even thought about
it. Having a valet type golf cart where they can go pick somebody up if they are somewhere and, you know, bring them back and forth. So that's
also another venue for you or avenue that we have coming. Hey, for a sidewalk, you know, we still have seven minutes to use
me if you'd like. All right. Anybody else have anything else? Okay. Meeting adjourned. Thank
you. One. 23. Thank you very much.