##VIDEO ID:2oqeiwtqJVw## Yes. You have a quorum. It was my fault. And we'll just. Invite the album. Yeah, that's the thing about just being three of us, I think. Yeah. Whatever you are. Yeah, it's 630. I'm going to call this meeting to order. Roll call please. Mr. Rosinski. Here. Mr. Sprecher. Here. Miss Ryan. Here. Miss Howlett. She said she was running late. Okay. Miss Kaplan. Miss Kaplan was not. She's not coming. Okay. Are there any public comments? That is not on our agenda tonight. Does anybody have any comments or questions? No. Okay, we're going to move on. Number four minutes. Unless you guys have anything specific about these two specific ones, we could probably do them together. Yeah. So sounds good. A motion please. I have a motion. We approve the minutes as written for November 4th and December 2nd. Thank you. I'll second. Okay. A vote please. Miss Ryan? Yes. Mr. Sprecher? Yes. Mr. Mrozinski. Yes. Okay. Number five, quasi judicial announcement and swearing in of speakers. And before we go any further, what I do want to say, since there's just three of us here, and if you're the applicants and you're uncomfortable with just three out of our whole group, we don't have to hear you tonight. Do you understand what I'm what I what I'm saying? You have to have three votes. We. So we would have to all. Is that true? We'd have to all vote in favor for it to pass. If one of us votes. No, it won't pass. Now, there is a fourth member that's allegedly on her way, but I have no idea where she is, so I cannot tell you to wait, because I do not know. I just want you to know that we have a person's number. That you. She said she's not going to. Sarah, do you want to take a maybe a five minute recess and see if we can reach that board member? We could do that. You know. You know what? While you guys are deciding, we're just going to take a five minute break and see if she shows up. I know it's a tough decision to make, I understand that. I understand that. So let's just let's just give her five minutes and let's see what happens. Okay. Just a little bit. Oh, man. She was just running in. So we lived on the boat for a while before we moved here. Yeah. So. There you end up costing $100,000. How much? To the point where I was at. I hadn't paid with my own Bible, so I'm, like, paying the time as well. It's like they didn't get all the residue off the gel coat. It's almost. You know, they actually came back. It was worth the price. Of. Well, I'm going to. But I managed to. It's had one guy had some engine trouble and he's telling me that it's the controls. Look at that. It's hard enough to enter something. So it's. How much do I owe you right now with the work? Yeah. There's just some real crazy ones out there. If our control is getting. It was literally just about. Staircase. Window. Start trying to push him and take vacations in there. Don't let that start. 2 or 3 weeks to our windows project. It's all good. I guess it'd be so hard. Let's take a look. A week and a half from doing the house first. And the garage they can do. Yeah. You need to be there. Taking all my art down. We're going to end up having to paint if she's trying to, like, pop. Give it another minute or so by going to number five, which the attorney will do our quasi judicial, judicial, judicial. It's always hard to pronounce that announcement and swearing in of speakers. So you have a few minutes. Thank you, Mister Chair. Appreciate that. As you indicated, this is you have two items on your agenda tonight. They are quasi judicial, as are most of your applications. What that means is that you sit here as quasi judges and you have to essentially take any you have to look for competent, substantial evidence as it's applied to the criteria that's in the code, which will also be expressed by staff. Now, where does quasi judicial, where does competent, substantial evidence come from? One it comes from your expert, your city, your city expert. The staff report. Any any expertise that the applicants might have or if they have experts. But you have to confine your decision to weighing of that evidence to the specific criteria that is in the code. Nothing outside of that. You will also have to disclose any ex parte communication that you may have had, or any independent research that you've done, or if you've talked to anybody about the applicant application, you have to disclose that at openly in public. And then, as you said, we need to swear in anyone who's going to testify before you here today. Okay. Well, before you swear anybody in, we should probably find out which applicants. Are you? Are you the Reed Street or the hibiscus? The reed, both of you. Okay. It's kind of up to you guys. You do have to know if one of us votes. No, it does not pass. I think we should try it. Okay. Okay, great. Then let's swear them in. All right. Anyone who's going to testify here tonight, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth here tonight. All right, you have it, Mister chair. So you want to disclose any ex parte communications? Everyone. Anybody has any. Please put them on the record. No. No. No. Okay. There are no ex parte disclosures in. Okay, then let's move on to application 24 .78154. Reed Certificate of approval to demolish a contributing structure. Carolyn. Moment. I always forget how I get to. Hold one second to breathe for him. Where we're at. Oh, okay. So we have a board. Excuse me. Mister chair, you have a board member that has arrived. So there are four now, four board members that are here. As I would like to ask you, do you have any ex party communications that you want to disclose on this matter? Yes. You. Okay. She's saying no. All right. Okay. And do we need to bring her up to speed or can we just do. We haven't even started the hearing yet, so as long as she doesn't have any ex parte communications, you now have a four member board. Thank you. Okay, so this is application 2478 for 154 Reed Street. This slide is showing you the location of the property. This slide shows you the location of the property within the National Register and local historic districts. This photograph is from the Florida master site. File for the subject property, and the applicant is seeking a certificate of approval to demolish the contributing structure. This is the survey for the property and this photograph shows the property in January 2024. A side view and then we have the property just recently. This photo is showing the water line that the subject property received from the recent hurricanes we experienced. So. The HPB approved application 23 159 in in March of 2024 for this property. This was issued to replace windows doors. The roof install some pavers. Do some work on the soffits and gables. Eaves. Fascia. And these slides are just showing you some of the plans that were submitted as part of that application. And this is just showing you the list of things that were approved. So I don't have any slides to go through the criteria. I just wanted to kind of talk you through the seven criteria that we have when it comes to a demolition. First and foremost, the code states that the demolition of any historic cultural site is not permitted. If that building has been able to has been let to deteriorate, become damaged or vandalized by virtue of neglect or abandonment. So this is our demolition by neglect. Part of the code. And then with respect to our guidelines. Demolition should be a measure of last resort when there's no other feasible alternative. And then we set out the criteria within the code to review. And so the first would be the historic architectural or cultural significance of the building. This structure doesn't really have any special significance beyond the fact that it is a contributing structure in both the historic and national districts. The second criteria is the importance of the building or structure to the ambiance of the district, or the patterns of land uses reflecting cultural traditions of the community or local ethnic group. So, as I previously stated, this building has no special significance associated with it. But this the ambiance of the street. Reed Street is a very eclectic street, particularly in this block. You have the large former church, the big mission building on one side, several craftsman homes from earlier time periods around 1915. You have a mid century masonry vernacular. You have a 19. It's a 1905 shingle home. And then you're topped off with an 1885 Gothic Revival structure. So it is kind of a little microcosm of our local historic district in one block, in that it just kind of contains a little bit of everything. And this is the only frame vernacular home on that block. And so it is contributing to that kind of eclectic mix of this block. So criteria three would be the difficulty or impossibility of reproducing the building because of its design, texture, material, detail or unique location. This building would not be impossible to reproduce. And the location and setting is not new. New is not unique to a frame vernacular structure. The fourth criteria is whether the building or structure is one of the last remaining examples of its kind in the district or in the city. So the subject property is a 1920s frame vernacular building. Frame vernacular is found throughout the city of Tarpon Springs within our local historic district. We have 146 frame vernacular structures. The majority of these were constructed prior to 1915. The earliest was built in 1883. So of the 146 frame vernacular structures in our local historic district, 3035 of them were built between 1920 and 1929. So this is one of those 35. And I went and I looked at all of those 35 structures, and there is no other extant example of a single story gable front with a nearly full width integrated porch in the district. So in a sense, it is unique because it is the only building that is like this from that time period. Our fifth criteria is the future utilization of the site. So the applicant has not provided any information on plans for future development. However, the zoning and underlying land use would permit more dense and intense development on the property as it's located in the residential multi-family district. Number six is whether reasonable measures can be taken to save the building. The applicant has not really provided any evidence of efforts to save the building. The last building permit that was issued for this structure was for a roof replacement. In 2002. Also in evidence, you know, they received a certificate of approval in March of this year to do some of the work that's contained in their scope of work. Justifying the demolition. So I would really ask the board to review the proposed cost document that was within the application, because a lot of these items really have nothing to do with flooding. And, you know, were extant when the property was purchased two years ago. And just really aren't relevant to the argument that flooding has caused it to no longer be able to be in use. So the last criteria is whether the building structure or traditional cultural property is capable of earning a reasonable economic return on its value, and whether the perpetuation of the building, considering its physical condition, its location, and the anticipated expense of rehabilitation would be economically feasible. In this case, it's kind of tricky. This standard usually compels the board to compare the current property in its value, and the value of the restored property, and analyze whether or not the cost of restoration is justified. However, this determination is really complicated by the fact that this property was purchased in 2023 at a cost of $513 a square foot. When the just market value at the time of purchase was $318 a square foot, according to the property appraiser. So the property appraiser sets the 2024 just market value of the property at 277 seven seven $9. And I can't, I do not render expertise in terms of economic feasibility. There are a few facts that are relevant to this though. The property was acquired at a price that's significantly above its appraised value. The property owner sought and received a certificate of approval in March 2024 to complete some of the work listed in the current scope of work, indicating that some of these deficiencies were already existing in March of this year. The entitlements for this property, if it was demolished, would allow for new development that could exceed its present value. And again, the determination of economic feasibility is really complicated by the existential economic loss of purchasing, purchasing a property at a value higher than what it is worth. So with respect to the current physical condition of the property, the board really needs to determine if the physical deficiencies on this property are the result of neglect and deferred maintenance. Or some other force. So for instance, one of the largest cost items in the proposed cost documents is related to replacing the flooring system. Now flooding will damage your flooring system, especially a wood floor. In the lifetime of wood products really depends on a number of different factors. Moisture is one of them. However, regular inspection, maintenance and repairs would prevent the complete and total failure of a flooring system. And that that would be for the board to determine whether that rises to the level of demolition by neglect. So with that, staff is recommending denial of the project. Due to the inconsistencies with our review criteria. However, if the board determines they want to approve the application, the parameters of guideline 41, which is a requiring them to go in and document the structure, should be followed, and that the certificate of approval will expire in three years. With that, I will take any questions you might have. I think it was maybe the second point you mentioned about if there were no feasible options or something. Can you think of any feasible option? I think this is a hard one. Right. Because what what is that determination of feasible. Yeah. So in March of this year it was determined feasible. But well yes March of 2024. So within the past year the applicant the owner and applicant thought it was feasible to fix it. So that was before the flood though, right? Right, right. But again, I would turn the board's attention to that scope of work that was provided. And you tell me how much of that is related to flood damage. Do you guys have any questions for Carolyn? Any questions? Clarifications. I just don't I don't think you have to speak up so we can all hear it. Okay. Okay. So no no more comments from you guys. Okay. Okay. With that, I'm going to enter my staff report and presentation as evidence. Thank you. And now I'm going to call the applicants up. Applicants come. In. You want to forget? No, I just have it all in my computer. Good evening. Board. I'm Robin Hancock, Cranebrook incorporated, and I have been sworn. I'm Tony Martin, and I've been sworn. Last year, when we brought this project forward, our intent was. It's a cute little, little house. Put some new windows in it, put a new roof on it and paint it. So whether or not it was economically feasible to do that last year is was never considered. Mr. Tony likes to do projects for the romance, more or less. We try to make the neighborhood better and yeah, try to make it better. The cost? Last year we never really looked at. Is this feasible or not feasible? We wanted to do it. But with the storms, we did take on four feet of flood damage, four feet of water in on that site. The house is loaded with lead paint. Every surface on the outside and inside is hot. So in order to remove and replace the windows from last year's application, we did not have any wood trim to remove or replace. We were just cutting out the old metal windows or the wood sash windows. Whatever the case was, and install new windows in its place without disturbing the lead. The lead paint. With the significant damage that this house received, it was shocking. It's been there. How long? Probably has never flooded like that. But basically you have underlayment, which is like a one by ten board, and then the next sandwich is underlayment going the opposite way. Another one by. And then you have your hardwoods on top. So all that sandwiched layer of flooring is still wet. There's nothing you can do to get all the moisture, all the flood waters out of the different layers. The plaster is on lath. All of that is still saturated. We couldn't go in and do a regular flood mitigation because of the lead paint. We can't touch it. It has to be mitigated. Would we love to save the house? Sure. But it's it has really gotten beyond. To receive that much water in it with the bacteria. The mold. It's hazardous at this point. And there was nothing we could do. We were up against the force of nature here. It is an easy style to replicate. We haven't even discussed anything in its place. But it's a nice lot. And every project Tony does is beautiful. He has the best intentions of the city and the styles. So thank you. The problem I had. I'm sorry. The other thing too, besides the deficiencies that Robin was talking about within the framework of the building, is that the exterior is totally termite ridden. What? Yeah, but, you know, why did I buy a building like that? We renovated the church. I think tarpon is one of the most incredible little towns. You know, we've lived in in Sarasota for many, many years. We bought here five years ago, and after we renovated the church, you know, we saw some other things that could be done we thought could be done easily and had no experience with the flooding in that area. The high tides in that area. We didn't have that experience. We didn't know about it. But subsequent to that, you know, we after we purchased everything, including the home that we're talking about today. After we had purchased it, we began to experience these high tides that were coming in from Canal Street. And, you know, they became a little scary, but we were into it. We're already heavily involved. And then we come to know some neighbors who purchased the rectories right next to us, who flooded very badly. And they have two, four units right next to us that they renovated twice. They're all vacant now, and they don't want to take a chance on doing it again. So everybody's frightened. The only way you're going to build up, you know, Robin made a statement because we kid each other once in a while, because I. I'll do a stupid thing, like buy this building. Just trying to make things better. Instead of looking at the economic feasibility, which is a dream and but never expecting. If all the, you know, if someone would come to you or post that these areas are subject to flooding. So everybody coming in knows that's a different story. Nobody told us that. So yeah, we have to do our own investigation. But you can only take it so far because if you don't see any remnants of things like that, you're not going to consider it. So anyway, we did it and we thought that it would be nice to have, you know, kind of that and the building right next to it again, which also is a flooding problem taken down. So we could make some kind of a plan when we got our heads together and had this done to make something that is more permanent, functional, good for the area. It makes sense. So I mean, that's why we don't enjoy doing this tearing down stuff. But if it was unique, if it was something that couldn't be replicated, you know, I mean, I'd be the first guy to say, let's try. But every everybody's telling you today you got to build up X amount of feet. And it's true. So we're building a home. Thank God we were able to find a little place. And it's going to be to new construction. And in garages today are eight feet. Living areas are 2018 to 20ft. You know, to protect from this. So all I'm saying is that, you know, it's not a life situation that this building be there, you know, but I think it's a you have to make a decision that makes sense for everybody. And that's really what we're looking for. And I think the neighborhood could retain the friendliness, the warmness, the. The cultural aspect and do it right. That's that's all I'm that's what we're looking to do. So like your consideration and you know, any thoughts you have any questions you have I'll be happy to answer to the best of my ability at this time. For the proposed costs that are on this document, is that for the to repair or is that to build new the 337,000? Is that the repair price? 337 that's I have for something I saw the purchase price is 400,000. Then it says, hang on, may I just say something? When we get into square foot situations, it's a very difficult thing. Yeah. Because there, you know, they've changed. And until you really start renovating, the costs just blow up. I've been through that. Okay, we get that, we get that and that. That's not why I'm asking. I'm just trying to understand. Yeah, we totally understand that piece. I'm just trying to understand the proposed cost. Is this a new construction? Is this what it cost to new to, or is this the repair cost? These were repair costs. Okay. That's what I wanted to know. Okay. If you could imagine a brown paper bag and it's sturdy as it's dry and it's sitting there, and then the bottom of it gets wet. The bottom six inches of it gets wet. It's lost its integrity. As FEMA did any. Have they? Have you had any FEMA inspections on the House? No. No. Due to the fact that it's historic, FEMA regulations don't come into play. So I believe that's correct. I'm not sure if that's correct. I live in the historic district, and I totally can understand what you guys are going through, because we got four feet of water in our house, and we are in the historic district. And FEMA never questioned whether we were in historic district or not. So maybe you have to apply. Yeah, I couldn't hear everything, but FEMA didn't make you know, it didn't mention historic district at all. They didn't ask me. That is your I am in the historic district, and I had the same kind of damage that you had. So I believe me, I totally understand. But FEMA doesn't care if you're in the historic district or not. Right. But as far as building permits, we don't have to comply with the 50% rule, which is great. How much water did you have in your home? Inch wise or inside? Three feet. Three feet? Yeah. Right at three feet. Enough to topple refrigerators and ruin everything that was there. Any appliance, the walls, the sheetrock. Right. So, plaster? Yeah. Yeah. And. Again, given the choice, like most people in today are, they're saying build them up, but build them up. You know you can't. Cost almost more than building a new. So I think that at some point, historic, you know, unless it was built with block and everything else, historic either has to be replicated, new to look and have the feel with function of what we're trying to achieve in the perpetuity. You know, or it's going to disintegrate in general. I mean, because of our climate and so forth, it's not, you know, I mean, it's just not conducive. Yeah. Basically, to wood, wood exteriors just doesn't work. And so, I mean, you know, like I say, you could put all the romance into it. And believe me, we love that. But, you know, there's got to be some function within the framework of, of creating an ambiance and a look. So Cranebrook incorporated. Is that y'all's company? My company or are you? No, we're not. We're not in business together. No. Okay. Okay. So you're his contractor? Correct. Okay. Sorry. I apologize. That's okay. Trying to understand. So you're the one that prepared the cost analysis? Yes. Okay. Yes. And I can tell you, with every job in the last two years, not flood work job, I can do estimates all day long. And the pricing that comes in from trades and materials are always more than what I think it should be. And then, of course, anytime you remodel, there's always surprises as you come along. But basically. This this house would have to be totally replaced from the roof down. And we already put in for a new roof, which meant some new plywood on the roof underlayment. The one buys on the existing roof. There are a lot of those that have deteriorated from termites. I can show you pictures of several properties that I have renovated in Tarpon, where you push on a two by four that's in the wall and there is nothing left of it. It looks like it's there, but every bit of it is hollow from the termites. So we don't even know if we're up against that on on this property. I didn't even consider it. But basically the, the floor system and the plaster and all of the lead and I do have the report on the lead really made this a seriously tough project. Not that I'm afraid of tough. I've done this too long. I'm not afraid of tough. You know the other thing that I have concerns with is the fact that when we don't have a hurricane because of the location of this particular site, the church is a little higher, which we discovered because we didn't get inundated with most of the homes. Did the water rush, but the house next to it, which was lower, had the same result as the gentleman next to us. You know where they got wiped out. But that. But you get the high tides today because of the system, the. I don't want to call it the sewer system, but the system, the water is actually coming up from the bayou on the back side, over on canal and coming across where probably when this house is built, you only had to deal with the water coming in from the bayou. But just in the two years or so that I've been working with Tony and aware of these properties, we're seeing it. Every King Tide water is coming up and lapping at the floor joists, and if you've got rain on top of it with winds, yeah. Then it's so we're seeing a lot more water in this neighborhood. I don't think it's just a renovation project. I mean, we want to preserve historical, but you've got to get functionality in place first because, you know, nature will take it away. And so really, that's where we're at. You know, we're in areas we shouldn't be living, period. That's so. Anyway. Whatever. We appreciate your suggestions. And you have a suggestion that could be somewhat. Yeah. But you can't even walk into it right now. It's hazardous. Have you have you thought about what you're going to be putting on replacing it with before? What kind of building? What it's going to look like. How big it's going to be. The neighbor or, you know, just just keep it open land or something. You know, just is better than but but it has to kind of conform, you know, to the area. We know that if another frame vernacular to replace it is. I, I don't you know, honestly right now we just we're making the suggestions. I think it's easier to take it step by step and figure out what works, what doesn't work. For sure, it's not going to be a slab house. I think we're in agreement on that. Another quick question is you talked about the lead mitigation, whether you do the repairs or the demonstration demolition that's going to be the same, right? Any, any any demolition. You know, it's got to be the same for the house next to it, which we got a permit to take down. I mean, yeah, that's all it has to be confirmed. And by professionals who, you know, who deal with it. Yeah. That's. Yeah, what we were doing on the first repair were from last year when we got permission to change out the windows. Basically, we were not changing anything that had lead paint in it. We were leaving it intact, just pulling the windows. A lot of them are metal. A few were still wood. And then putting the vinyls back in. We were not going to be pulling or sanding or re doing anything to the existing lead lead paint, but it's in the siding, the window casings inside and out. I guess that's the full exterior. So basically we didn't want to touch it last year. We were working around it, but in order to remove it, yes, whether we demolish it or have to renovate it, we have to follow the mitigation. Okay. So the price would be the same. Yeah. And. Okay. There would just be a lot more of it. Yeah. With the demolition. Because the floor system is now mold. So that's a different type of mitigation. Okay. So your request, as Carolyn pointed out, with the list of repairs here, isn't necessarily related to the flood. Right. You're not saying that you want to tear this down because of the flood. Yeah. Okay. Because there are things on this list that probably didn't have anything to do with the flood that you're talking about. Well, the. Yeah. Like silt fence, driveways. Well, yeah. The termite treatment. Right. I don't know if the flood brought those little buggers out or if they were there before. That's. Of the soil. Pardon me. That's of the soil to. Well, it's still maintain still. It's still termite proofing the house. Yeah. Whether it's in the soil or if you're tenting the house. We have to see kind of what? Some of the boards. They're not. They're not correctable. They should be removed. I, I do understand that. The lead paint. You had the lead paint there did. Maybe when you bought the place last year. Your inspector didn't catch that. Didn't catch all the lead paint. I'm not aware of any inspection that he had during the purchase. These properties are next door to other properties he owns. He wanted to be able to. I don't want to say control, but know have I wanted to be able to fix them up and have a nice little correct area. Started with one element and we thought we bought them because we could fix them up and make it a nice community in that area. But the two were just too far gone and the elements that are there today, you're not going to make it better than what it could be. I mean, it's just the realism of what's going on. And, and soon in some of these areas, I think other people are going to see the same thing. So if you want to keep it, you could always put something in there that looks like because honestly, I didn't I've never seen anybody stop by either of these buildings. Well, pictures of the church. They'll take buildings across of pictures across the street and nobody said, oh wow, look at this fantastic thing. And that's, you know, so. You know, everybody wants to look. We're all going to move on at some point in our life. But we'd like to preserve what we have a culturally and historically with that look. And the downtown area is indicative of what we should all become. You know, but with longevity. And that's really what I, what I see for Our Town. Yeah, I get it. And that's actually what we all want to do, too. Here. Did you since you're saying that the reason that the flood was the reason you want to demolish the building, did you put together any costs that just related to the flood and not plumbing of the new bathroom and kitchen? The flood would not have ripped the plumbing out. Did I tell that? That's. That's debatable. The flood was the straw that broke the camel's back. Okay. Believe me, I know what the floods can do. Yeah. So, did did you put together anything that just related to the flood and not like the roof? Okay. It probably needs a roof. Okay. But I don't think the flood damaged the roof cause that. No, you're looking at whether we. We did. We didn't buy a building to tear down. Okay. We bought a building at an income stream who was renting all the time. Right. But if you were to see what the tenants were living with, the conditions, you wouldn't be a happy camper. And so, to fix those up and compound it with. When we learned about the flooding situation and the termites and mold and all of the above. I mean, I don't think it's the kind of place that I would live in. You know, I don't think you would either. And I just think that there's some conditions. You want a square foot price on what it cost to build today? Yeah. Is that what you're looking for? An estimate? No. He's looking for numbers. Just flood because you're saying. Yeah, but what? But right now, your kitchen has to be totally redone. Right. That's all flood related. No, no, but that's what I'm saying. And your foundations have to be redone. That's flood related. You got to build them up. You can't keep it. Actually took the motion of the water, took the little piers. Right. So what I'm what I'm saying is it's more than that. Yeah. We've done investigation. We just don't like throwing money, you know, and making things better. I mean, that's the key. You can cover up any cancer for a moment. Right. That's the moment. Right. But it still, you know, this is 423,000 with a new foundation, plus the purchase price. So? So you you believe that 400 something is all related to the flood? None of it was there before. Back out the roof. But that's about it. I mean, the windows were flooded as well. Well, and it's not like you can cut out four feet and just replace that. If I'm putting in a new foundation as far as the building code is concerned, I have to attach to a firm structure. Starting from the foundation and going up. We have to wind load it. This house obviously is been here a very long time and never was engineered for wind loading. But I know it's a very hard. Thought. But again, back to the paper bag. It's great. And it sits there pretty. But the bottom six inches gets wet. We have we have to replace all of that and then attach it to what's left, which is also, I'm sure going to be eaten with termites because that's just what we find in all these old homes. Is this home sit on lot eight and nine. It's two lots. It sits on. It is two lots. Because it just hit me. You guys were here a while back, and you had that small house we gave you the demo on. That's a third lot all together. Their separate lots, though, separate addresses. Yeah. The structure next to this does not really have a foundation. It's like a slab that somebody poured inside a wood frame building. And we really believe it probably was a garage or a storage structure for this house at some point. So is this house on blocks right now or is it on a foundation? It's on brick piers. Piers. And did I hear you say that it actually moved from the flood on the back? Everything is custom. We don't have pictures of any of that. Is there a picture of the back on this one, Caroline? No, I don't see it. It's just there's a lot. I mean, I think we could have. You could have shown a lot more pictures, so we could have understood more. Because you look at the pictures you're showing, it doesn't. Look, we can't tell from this. Yeah. Like, I'm looking at this. I can't even see the water line on this. But. Caroline, can you. Yeah. Point out where it is. Right here. Yeah, I saw it. I zoomed in to see it. I see? Yeah. You. It's just under or right at the sill on this window? No, on the first one. No, it's right here. Where? The arrow. Yeah. On the next picture, the longer windows. Listen, that water line is way below those windows. These are kitchen windows. All the other windows are low. Like this first one. And the water line is right at the window sill. You can kind of see it here, right there, right at the sill, which is the majority of the windows in the house. Remember which way you look at it. The short windows here are the kitchen windows, which are not original. They're aluminum. Well, sorry, I don't know if I can. Can I ask a question, Caroline, to you or you? Sure. So did it. So did it. Moved off of its foundation or it didn't move off of its foundation? The foundations collapsed. Yeah. Just shifted. They're just little tiny pieces of brick. They're not solid. They're just some stacked bricks under the house. Have you mentioned just. I live in a neighborhood that had four feet of flood, six feet of flooding, and so many, you know, they got in, they got the walls down, and they're totally gutted. And they're selling as is, and they're being purchased by contractors or whoever. A lot of work is taking place in this town illegally. Are they an historic district? Are they? What historic district? Oh, yeah, of course I am. Yeah. And so. Okay, where we build up the foundation, you can lift them 60. A lot of people don't have this little survey and report. I have no idea. Unfortunately, we had done that last year in order to know the conditions that we were up against and know what we could manage to replace and upgrade. There is a lot of work in Tarpon Springs going on that is illegal. I see it every single day. Every day. We're not. That's not what we're here for. That's correct. Yeah. That's not what we're here for. Let's get back to your fight. That battle outside this room. But, yeah, it is a hard decision. But whether it's economical or not is just. Not feasible. So much of the house is gone. Mr. McCarron. I think I saw on the. Hadn't found it yet. I didn't print everything, but one of the one of the requirements, if I remember right, that they you need to know what's going to be built on before before it's torn down. Is that right? In previous demolitions that you have approved, you have made that a condition of approval that approved plans for new construction needs to come in front of them before the building permit for the demolition is issued. That has happened before, but but we don't have to know before it's torn down. You do not. But you can condition any approval with that. But that's after the fact. It's already down. No, no, no, you could you could condition the approval of the demolition. Oh I see. By saying that you need to bring have approved plans for what you're going to build next. I see, before you get your building permit to them. I see. Okay. Or it's demolished. And if anything happens on that site, we do have to come back to you no matter what. That's correct. Did you. Did you get any other quotes or is it just yours? I like to do three quotes whenever I'm getting work done. I can guarantee you it will be a lot more. Well, can, because you didn't see any other quotes. If you can even get somebody to guarantee that. May I interject one second? Sure. A quote. Will you speak into the mic, please? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay, here we go. All right. Quotes are very interesting. Before you get a quote, you have to set the quality expectation of what you're going to be quoting on, because otherwise, you know, the quote is invalid. And what I'm finding today is when that's done, very seldom, you know, do you get wide disparities in quotes, you know, because you need licensed contractors. And if they're not licensed, right, that's a different ballgame. And as Robin said, we have a lot of unlicensed work going on within our confines. Sure. Yeah. And I understand that. I guess what I was wondering if there were any other quotes, perhaps those people, those quotes would not feel all of this was necessary. That's in in this one. I don't know that for a fact. Would not allow another trade in there to make a decision saying that this is savable. Doors, for instance, we already had put in to replace all the doors. Are they salvageable from the flood? Sure. They'll stick every day. They're full of bacteria. They came from Home Depot. They know they wouldn't work in there. They wouldn't. There's no doors will be salvageable. I mean, everything, they all have wood in them. So. All right. Okay. Okay. You're done. You're done. Are you done? Are you guys done? I think so. Okay. Call for public comments. There's nobody here. Good. Staff actually have a rebuttal. I'm sorry. Oh, go ahead please. Yeah. Just a couple of things to note from the applicant's. Presentation. Elevating the structure was included in the cost estimate. And while I feel that elevating the structure somewhat is probably a good idea for the longevity of the structure, it's not required and certainly not required to be elevated six feet, which is what they had in their application. With respect to the lead abatement. Again, you know, you noted that it would have to be done either way, but the applicant's own lead report noted that there was only two instances of lead that was found. You can see here over here the results on the screen. Anything above one. So we have one window here and one window here. So all of those zeros are showing. There was zero but found. I think it's disingenuous to say that nobody told you that a house right next to a bayou might flood. I'm sorry, I and you know, you would also need to do, I guess. Really? I have two comments. Major comments on this presentation. Caveat emptor, buyer beware. And also due diligence. Because if you look at this list of proposed costs, you know, plumbing of the new bath and kitchen, plumbing, the actual plumbing of the bath and kitchen was was not affected by flooding wiring. If you're wiring and outlets are not up to code. That's deferred maintenance or neglect. That's not it's not the flood's fault that your wiring is not to code. The windows and doors they already knew they wanted to replace. That was in their previous application. Again, the flooring system is the biggest thing. You're telling me that you did not have an inspection done on a building you purchased to see what, what condition the flooring system was in? Would is not a paper bag. What is would when it floods? You let the water recede, you open the windows, you get fans in. None. No evidence of that. Sir, it is my turn to speak. So I guess what? My real point is here is if you look closely at these proposed costs, many of them are related to either deferred maintenance or outand out negligence. And our code tells us. That we're not to allow demolitions. It's not going. We shall not be permitted to cause such site buildings or structures to deteriorate, become damaged, be vandalized, or otherwise to fall into a state of disrepair by virtue of neglect and or abandonment. Now our guidelines. Guidelines 42. States. That adds a little sauce to this and says. If it's not, as long as it's not a result of the property owner's financial inability to carry these actions out. So the applicant has not provided any information stating that they have an inability to bring their structure up to code. That was clearly not up to code beforehand. If all of these items are actually required. So in sum, I just think this is a very clear case of demolition by neglect. And I'll answer any other questions on that if you might. So you just said you see it as demolition, a clear case of demolition by neglect, by neglect. Because this structure, that's what they're asking for. You're not saying and I'm not saying it is either the applicant or their agents fault that that happened. I am saying buyer beware. You bought a structure that had been clearly neglected before. You knew you should have done inspections to know the kind of work that was going to need to be done on it in the first place. And then now we're we're at this juncture. But you're not saying that that's a reason. If this group wants to approve this because of neglect. I mean it. I'm not sure how to say it. So are you saying that it would be okay for us to approve this demolition because the house was neglected? Or are we just saying that it's in this condition because it was neglected and it needs to be fixed? The latter it is. No, it is not okay that the House has gotten into this condition because of neglect. This is a new owner of this property. And I'm not saying that. And I'm not casting any blame here. I understand. Okay. I do have one more question for the owners, actually for Cranbrook. Did you remediate this house? Because I don't see any remediation costs. Oh, HVAC, no remediation. Did you bring fans in to dry it out after it had flooded? No, he we did not. It was so bad. He had fans and I don't. This wasn't the first time this thing has flooded because I mean it had a terrible smell in it. You know, when we first bought it, that's hard to identify. Okay. That's all I want to know. Thank you. Yeah. If it were just a situation where a fan or that type of remediation could be done and solve the problem, all of the flooring would have had to be removed in order to air out. And as far as the as far as the Leed report, we only had the reports done on areas that we were going to be working the windows and the fascia, the siding, they hit it with the gun. They said it was hot. It is not on the report for the siding. It is not on the report for the paint and the plaster on the inside. Basically, we had this report done for areas where we had intended to work, which was the roof and the doors and windows. Okay, that wasn't for the whole house. No, these are window frames, window sills, fascias, soffit. But of course, while they're there, it's a matter of just pointing the gun. And you can see the numbers. Well. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Any other questions from you guys? No. Carolyn, are you finished with your rebuttal? I am, thank you. All right. I'm closing public comments. We've already heard from staff. I'm going to bring it back to you guys. But before we could discuss it, I need some sort of motion. And whatever motion, whoever makes the motion does not have to vote that way. We just need that motion in order to discuss. So I need somebody to make a motion so we can move forward. If there isn't any. We don't discuss. And it's over. There's going to be a motion here to make it. Do you have an idea in your head? Well, okay. That I made it a point. If I was going to make a motion, it was always going to be to approve. No, simply because if we vote against it, that's a disapproval. Right. Okay. If I do it to disapprove, then we have it. And we still have to have another one for approval. See what I'm saying? Thank you. Okay, so it's just cutting down a step if we have to. Okay. Okay. So. Got it. Explain that a little louder. Oh, okay. If you vote to if you give a motion to approve. Okay. And it's voted down, then it's disapproved. Okay. But if you give a motion to disapprove and that's voted down, then you have to make another motion for approval. That's working. Okay. Well, we'll we'll clarify. We need to have some sort of motion. Well, that's that's so much I wanted to say that before I did it. Okay. Okay. Because it was confusing to me. Okay. But we'll still make it very clear. Okay. I'm making it. Okay. I'm making it very clear. I vote to approve it as written right now. Okay. Now, do I have a second? Then we can start discussing this thing. Jeff. I'll second. Okay. Okay. Okay. We don't we don't vote, do we? We haven't discussed. We don't we don't. We're not voting on a motion. All we're doing is we're discussing. We're able to discuss now. Now we can discuss. We have a motion to approve. What is? Let's talk about this. Okay. Do you want to say why you did or should we? No. You heard what I did. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'll have to vote that way. Yeah. I have I have a couple problems, and we sort of talked about them already. If this application for demolition is strictly because of what the flood damaged. I do think that this list of work that's needed is terribly inflated. I'm. No, no, I closed public comment. You can't say anything. I believe there are items that we mentioned. A few of us have mentioned. There's a few items on this list that I don't think have anything to do with the flood. All right, that's one. I'm concerned that there was no remediation done whatsoever. Again, I flooded within three days. My house was clean, the mold was being dealt with, dehumidifiers were going, fans were going. I was able to walk into that house. Okay, I did, made sure I did all of that. You guys didn't do anything. And I that's beyond my comprehension. But that's not again, what we're voting on. But it's bothering me. The fact that there was no and I don't know if it's relevant or not. Please tell me if it's not that. When you bought the house, you did zero. Inspection. You could have found all of this out with those inspections. I it's not me to say whether someone should do that or not, but I'm just saying it's something that I think is part of this issue. I think me personally, before voting for a demolition, I'd like to see more quotes. I'd like to see something I'd like to know what is possibly going to be built in its place. Are the costs for that going to be less than the cost to fix this house? More than the cost to fix this house? So I this is these are the things that are kind of bothering me. Well, that's how you doing? Well. Well. Okay. But my. Okay. Go ahead. My main thing is you go through all this and you did not have a plan of what you're doing afterwards. Okay. With a historical society like this in a historical area, we need to know what's going to go on. Okay. You can't. Have a. Craftsman house. Then put a grandiose house in its place. No. Okay. That's not. Well, I know that. You know that. That's. This is what I'm saying, though. We didn't hear nothing about that. We didn't see anything in writing. Okay. We didn't have a proposal, anything like this. And that's one of the main reasons. Another thing that I'm. I'm. Thinking of, you know, with the termites and stuff like that, you should know that. Okay, that wasn't the flood. And, you know, I can understand the flood, and I can understand the mitigation. You're going to have to do mitigation anyhow. Termites. You should have known. You can't put that on there. Okay. We don't even want to hear that. Okay. We're talking about flood damage. Okay. If everybody came in here with termite damage, we'd have a line out the door. Yes you would. Okay. So that's. That doesn't count. Okay. So I think it's on here. I don't believe it's really on here. Well, that's what I was hearing. Okay. My approach on this. No. Hang on. But we're we're talking now. Okay. Okay. And there's one other point. I just put up the mitigation, and that's about it. What do you got? The fact that we didn't do any cleanup at the beginning is an issue. So it leads me to think that the whole premise all along was to demo it. So it's several lots together. So you guys, maybe they just put the cart before the horse. We probably need to know more. We probably need. We need better costing. Should have been just a flood quote. Damage estimate would have helped us make better decisions. Better pictures. I just feel like there's not enough information for us to make that. Make a decision to demo a building like this. Should I rephrase? No, that was good. You made a lot of sense. Okay. We didn't change any. I'm ready. I'm ready to vote. We didn't change any motions yet. No. Do you want to say no? I just agree with everything that's been discussed. I just think there should be more. Information. Input into what is. What his options are. And I don't think it's us that needs to come up with no options or costs or anything. Right? Right. Okay. No, it's. No. We missed something terribly, though. On this cost approach, she can. What? What? It's up to you. You're the boss. What? To let her talk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did close public, but this is kind of important, so let's. Let's talk about it. Go ahead. What did you want to say? Okay. This cost approach was to elevate and repair the house. If we just repair the flood damage, he's spending hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it's going to happen again. I do understand that. And the property as it sits is uninsurable. It's been uninsurable since he purchased it. And if we do all of this work, it's still uninsured. I don't think we have an issue with the res piece. We don't have an issue with the having that that number in here. There's no issue with the res piece being. To me that is part of the flooding. So there's no there's no worry on that. Yeah. The raising what she said the raising part we could call part of the flood. So that's that's fine. Which is all. That's fine. Questioning that part. Okay. Just your number should be I get I get some of the electrical because your outlets probably got wet. So you should have electrical. You should have sheetrock. You should have doors, siding, you know, foundation floors though that should be what you have in the quotes for us to make a better, more informed decision. Which is what this quote represents. Well, that's there's a lot there's more than that. There's other things in here, like I've got 30 years in home improvement and a degree in architecture. I understand what you're saying. You just you need you got to kind of pull it, rope it in so that it's just to the flood damage and why you're looking to do what you're doing. The big piece on the remediation. First step, Tony, is always no matter if you intend on fixing it, because you want to control the damage. So I would always make sure you get those fans in there and get it dried out, because it would have it would have cut it down some of the damages. It may have saved you a lot of money in the end, but but that's here, nor there. You're where you're at now. We just I think we're I think we're all in a point where we're ready to vote. I think we are. Do we, do we want to add anything like keeping the door open for them coming back? I think if they can't, they Caroline can they can't. They just create a new application? Absolutely. Can. So we don't have to actually they have or have two, two, two routes they could take. If you choose to deny this application, they can appeal it to the board of commissioners. Or they can come back to you with a new application with new information. Can they withdraw? Or defer? I mean, I'm not sure if we can defer when we've already opened hearing. That would be for the attorney. We have to vote on this one. Well, yes, you do have a motion on the table. That's true. You know, if it if it's a matter of you wanting new information or additional information as it applies to the criteria and what I'm some of the criteria I'm looking at is whether reasonable measures can be taken to save the building structure or etc. It seems like you're focusing on that. You can continue an item like this and ask for them to come back with additional information, as opposed to, you know, voting to deny. I mean, in order to take the motion off the table, you have to, you know, withdraw the motion, withdraw the second and so forth. But yes, in a quasi judicial hearing like this, you can continue something if in fact you think there is additional information that the that the applicant can provide and then they can come back and it can be scheduled to a date certain, but but on the motion you got to give some motion is the only one that can pull it back. Right. Yeah. The motion that's on the table. Right. Right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Alrighty then. We're going to we're going to decide this right now. Okay. Okay. Any other comments from the board here? Questions? Okay. Then I will call for a roll. I'll call for a vote. Miss Hallett. But wait, wait, wait. I'm sorry. I always like to say what a yes vote is and what a no vote is, right? So yes, a yes vote means we're not. We know we're approving it. We're approving demolition. No vote, no vote. We're not approving demolition. Okay. Just so we understand. All right, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Kim. Miss Hallett. No. Sorry, Miss Ryan. No! Mr. Sprecher. No! Mr. Mrozinski. No. Sorry. So you you understood that you have a couple options now. Frankly, I would like you guys to come back, but that's not for me to say. Do a little bit more homework, perhaps. Have more photographs. Talk a little bit more about that foundation that shifted. What are you going to do? Well, that was kind of a moot point. Well, not necessarily, Mister Chair. You all have. You all have taken a vote on this. And so it's improper to continue the dialog here. Okay. Sorry. That's why it really frankly, you should not take emotion right away. You should deliberate and talk about it and then see which way you who wants to make a motion? Well, we have to take a motion. No, you did not. You did not. I don't know who told you that, but you did not. Robert's, I thought told us that. I don't know who Robert's is. Who's Robert's? Robert's rules. No, this is quasi judicial. But go ahead. I mean, but I don't think you should continue this discussion because you've already. We've already voted on it. We're done. That's it. We're done. Okay. Next item. Okay. Thanks, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Okay. Application 24 .83. 2026 Hibiscus Street. Certification of approval to add awnings to the contributing structure. So I had contacted the applicant on Friday, and they told me they were going to be here. But they are not here. Okay. So that would be up to you if you want to hear the case without the applicant. So we have we ever set a precedent that if the. Applicant is not here, we don't get. I think I think she needs to be here because this is the same applicant that. Yeah. Yeah. We didn't talk to her about it. Okay. I would, I would recommend since the applicant is not here obviously they they due process. They need to have an opportunity to speak to their application even though they were notified of it. It's probably proper for you to continue it to a date certain. So it doesn't have to be re-advertised. And the date certain would be next month on whatever the date is. Yeah, but just continue it to that date. Okay. Can I just make that we need. What is the date of the next meeting? I don't have a calendar. I'll look it up. One second. I'm sorry. I had already marked the first Monday in February. Yes, that is going to be the third. The third. So I would move to the motion. Would be to continue it to the next meeting on the 3rd of February. Okay. Do we need a motion for that? Do we. What, what you just said. Yeah. A motion to move it to the third. I second it. Okay. Any discussion? Nope. Yeah. Okay. Call for a vote. Miss Howlett. Yes. Miss Ryan. Yes. Mister Sprecher. Yes. Mister Rosinski. Yes. Okay. Number seven. Election of officers. Oh, no. Is this something we do every two months or what? No. It seems like in January. What are we. What are we? Are you happy looking at? Am I happy? Right? Am I happy? I'm not happy. But that's got nothing to do with this here. Yeah. So, election of officers. What do we do? Somebody has to make some sort of. What? Motion? Suggestion or something. So you're talking about chair. Vice chair, right? I assume. I don't know. Run the meeting. So someone's got to run the meeting. And if the chair is missing, the vice chair would stand in. So. So somebody does. Does a member here have to? If you like being chair and everyone likes you being chair, someone can motion to keep the chair as the same. Who is the vice chair. Just do it. Yeah. You all you all can vote if things are moving along nicely and you like it. If we're both willing to do it, do we still have to? Do you both have to be willing to do it? We have to. We are to take a vote. Yeah, I would do it one at a time. So if someone can motion to keep, I motion to keep. Bill, Bill and Bill and Phil. No. You got to do one one at a time. Okay. Okay. I motion to Phil as chair. As chair. Okay. I second. Okay. I agree. Okay. Let's vote. Vote. Just on the one. Miss Howlett. Yes, Miss Ryan. Yes, Mr. Sprecher? Yes. Mr. Moszynski. I'm going to abstain. Okay. No, you don't have a conflict. You can vote for yourself. Yeah, I can vote for you. You can? Yes. All right. Yes. And thank. So now you need a motion to keep the gentleman as vice chair. Oh. Your turn. This is for vice chair. Make a motion to keep Bill. As vice chair. Bill as vice chair. Yes. I second. All right. Any discussion? Let's vote. Miss Howlett? Yes. It's Ryan. Yes, Mr. Sprecher? Yes. Mr. Moszynski. Yes. Okay, great. Just great. Number eight. I mean, I'm assuming you want. You want. It's frankly, it's not really whether I want it or not. Okay. I'm just doing it. No. All right. To come anyway. Okay. Number eight. Board and staff comments. Before we go to staff, do you guys have any comments about anything? About anything we talked about anything. We talked about anything that you want to see happen. Good man. Okay. Staff comments. No. No comments at this time. All right. That enough for tonight? 801 we are adjourned. Thank you everyone.