Yeah. I don't know how much. We're hoping one day to get the
fox. It seems like every month it's a minute slower.
30. I'm going to call the meeting to order. Thank you all for being here. Chloe. Roll call please.
Mr. Burzynski. Chairperson. Burzynski here, a little fuzzy. I couldn't hear you. Miss Howard is absent. Miss Kaplan,
Mr. Cadena present. Miss Trapani, miss produce. Thank you. Are there any public
comments that are not related to anything on the agenda? Okay, we'll move on. Quasi judicial announcement and swearing in of
speakers. This is a quasi judicial proceeding where the board acts in a quasi judicial rather than a legislative capacity at a quasi judicial hearing. It is not the board's
function to make law, but rather to apply law that has already been established in a quasi judicial hearing. The board is required by law to make findings of fact, based upon the evidence presented at
the hearing, and apply those findings of fact to previously established criteria contained in the Code of Ordinances. In order to make a legal decision regarding the application
before it, the board may only consider evidence at this hearing that the law considers competent, substantial and relevant to the issues. If the competent, substantial and relevant evidence at the
hearing demonstrates that the applicant has met the criteria established in the Code of Ordinances, and the board is required by law to find in favor of the applicant. By the same token, if the competent,
substantial and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has failed to meet the criteria established in the Code of Ordinances, then the board is required by law to find against
the applicant board members any ex parte communication to disclose any conflicts of interest. If you're going to
speak, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm your testimony before the Heritage Preservation Board
will be the truth, so help you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Applications number 26.39.
Pulaski Certificate of Appropriateness for monument sign at 427 East Tarpon Avenue. Carolyn. Good evening. Caroline
Lanford, principal planner with the City of Tarpon Springs. This is application 2639. This first slide shows the location and land use context of the
subject property at 427 East Tarpon Avenue. In our Special Area plan adjacent to an existing residential district. This slide shows the location
of the subject property within the National Register and local historic districts. This is just the basic property information for the subject
property, which is a circa 1910 craftsman style building. It was originally a residence and is currently being used as a B&B. While there have been some
slight alterations to the property, it maintains architectural details and its overall historic massing enough to be a contributing property within both the National
Register and local historic districts, and the applicant is seeking a certificate of appropriateness to construct a monument sign. This shows the
subject property on the 1919 Sanborn map. This is the picture of the subject property from the Florida Master Site. File a picture of the property
from Tarpon Avenue looking north. Just some more photos of the property showing some
context. Going east on Tarpon Avenue. And then some context looking west. And this is the approximate location of the
proposed monument sign. This is from the applicant showing the location of the proposed monument sign. Outside of the
required visibility triangles and the ten foot minimum setback requirement. This is a drawing of the proposed sign
from the applicant. It would be 64in wide by 84in high, which equals 37.3ft■!S. This is a picture from the applicant
showing the approximate location of the sign. The relevant standard for review are new construction consistency. The height and
width of the proposed sign is consistent with adjacent contributing signs. Adjacent contributing structures with respect to criteria. Criterion
three neighborhood and district context. The proposed sign would slightly alter the historic streetscape and change the relationship between open
space and the street. However, the proposed sign conforms to standards and again is similar to signs at other contributing properties within the neighborhood and the historic
district. With respect to adherence to the Secretary's guidelines, the relevant standard is that related new
construction will be undertaken in such a manner that, if removed in the future, there will be no loss of integrity to the historic property. I believe it meets that criterion.
And then with respect to conformance with city of other city codes, it is in conformance with other city codes, and I'm just going to go
through that kind of quickly. So the relevant standard is 89 freestanding signs. The maximum sign height is ten feet within
the Historic Preservation district. It needs to be outside of the required visibility triangles ten feet from the adjoining street.
Right of way line, 15ft from the side property line. With respect to the size of the sign. The maximum allowance for this
property would be 45 total square feet. That's based on one foot per lineal foot of
building frontage. And then the guidelines don't don't really talk a whole lot about new signs, but it's important that
new signs would not obscure or hide significant historic features or details. And that's really the relevant guideline from the Design Review Guidelines manual. So staff is
recommending approval of the project with condition that the certificate of appropriateness would expire in three years. If a building permit has not been issued for the project. And with that, I'll enter my staff
report and presentation into the record and answer any questions you might have. Anybody have any questions for Carolyn? Cindy, miss Blanford, just a couple of clarifications.
So the size of the sign is permitted under the city's code? Yes. Okay. So we don't need a variance or anything for the size. No. Second question is I
saw that this a ten foot setback from the right of way. So that would be from the right of way along Tarpon Avenue. But the location in this, the one exhibit, I guess from the
applicant that shows has a picture of the inn and then has a white outline of the building or the sign. Yes. So that's ten.
That's that's an approximate picture. It shows on the plans. This little blue line is the ten foot minimum setback. And this green line here is showing
their proposed location of the sign. So it's in that circle or not. Yes. So the proposed location is within this circle according to their plans. Okay. My last question I think for
now is there's a sign there today on the east side of the driveway. What's going to happen to that sign? I think that would be a question for the applicant. But if it would
exceed the maximum signage allowance. So yes, they would need to pick between one or the other. They don't they're not allowed to have two signs. They could if the if if there were
if they didn't exceed their maximum allowance. But I think in if I'm recalling correctly the existing sign, I mean, they're getting pretty close at
it at 37. 37.3 and 45 is the maximum area allowance. So if they took the 45ft■!S and dividd it onto two different signs, if
they got if they wanted to and got approval for it. Thank you. I have a question. Will you have the red circle on the one picture is it going to have are
they going to have to do away with that palm tree that is not indicated in anything here shows where it is on the other side of the palm tree. Are they
going to have to take palm tree down? I think that would be a question for the applicant. But looking at the plans they provided, I don't think that would be necessary. Could the
sign not fit on the other side of the parking lot where the little sign is now, or does it obscure anything if they I think where the existing sign is, that would be in the
required visibility triangle, which with the size sign they have now is okay, but the size that they're looking for proposing to put in that would
be obscuring in the visibility triangle. Any other questions? I just have one. Carolyn. I see
that there are three concepts in our paperwork here. Do we know which one that we're using? That would again be a question for the applicant. I went with
concept one as as provided, but we really can't regulate the look or the content of the sign. The only thing that we're regulating is the the placement
and the size. So it's somewhat immaterial what design they're going for, as long as it meets the requirements of the code in terms of placement and size.
Okay. I do think the design guidelines speaks to materials. It talks about a monument sign being the there's a couple things in there, one about a monument sign being made of masonry or stucco. And the
other thing, it talks about a sign reflecting the architecture of the particular building. So we do have design review. We can't, can't, cannot tell them what they put on the sign. That's a First Amendment
issue. If I'm correct, I'm sure Mr. Salzman will come along. So we're not content neutral. Right. Put on it. We're regulating or approving or denying the size, the placement
and the materials used. In this case, the materials being used are aluminum, which is not a historic material. Mr. Brady, you have found something in the
design Review guidelines manual that I did not find. So. Okay. Well, Mr. Pony, if you could please turn on your mic. Sorry.
Please turn on your mic. There we go. Is that better? Is that better? Thank you. I thought
there was a reference. There is a statement that monument signs must have a solid base that is complementary to the streetscape. And the base
should be masonry or stucco. That is that is the statement that is made in the Design Review Guidelines manual. And what are they planning to make their sign out of? I think it
probably these are better questions for the applicant.
Any other questions for Carolyn? Okay. If not applicant presentation, please your name and address. Melissa Pulaski.
And my address is 14909 First Street, East, Madeira Beach, Florida, 33708. I do have a
picture of the design that we did submit. I know you had a question about it. It's the round one. The round one, the
one that was the concept number one was that you have three concepts. I'm not sure how they were labeled when they were in the portal. I didn't see it on
the screen. It's the last, I believe it's the last or next last page. I would think it would be the last one that was submitted, because we went back
and forth with changes. No, you just scroll up. That's the three that he's talking about right there. There's the third one and there's two more above it. Yeah. No, the one that we submitted most recently was the
circle one. The circle one. Yep. And I don't see it on there. What do you mean by the circle one. The circle design that I'm holding in my hand. I don't see
it in that packet. Can you. Absolutely. Just that the board.
So nothing has changed with the size or the materials. Well
this is not in our packet. It wasn't in my pocket. That's not mine. The one that was in my packet is a rectangular sign.
It's a rectangular monument sign. This doesn't I, I mean, we don't know how. I can't tell how tall this is. I can't tell the materials. I can't tell anything about it. So I have
the quote with me. It's the same size. I said the only the design changed exact same size and the exact same materials.
So how tall is it? One second. It is overall height. Size seven feet 84. Overall height
5-1111-5. So 71.5 overall width. I have the quote with me as well. Well that's I mean that's fine but that's not what we have in our packet. That's not what we're asked to review tonight. Okay then I apologize.
My assistant must have messed up. So I guess we're going to have to get on the next agenda. I think it'd be kind of difficult for us to review something that. Absolutely. No, I understand I'm agreeing with
you. I think you might want to hear some comments before you know for sure. Yeah. Can you
show her the one that was in our pocket? That's the rectangular one. Oh, you've got it up on the screen. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So we really don't know what the
square footage is of this new one, do we. We don't know. It's I assumed that this was the final design because this one had the appropriate information
that I had asked for. Yes. From Danielle. I'm texting her right now. Caroline. I mean, I understand, Caroline, that this
group really doesn't have anything to do with the design, but we do with size and setbacks. And I think the setback item is fine. But with
the new design here, we have no idea what the dimensions are, what the square footage. We don't know if it fits. I would think that this board does have some purview over things like
design and materials, some purview over that, but the most relevant things are the size and the placement. And if we don't have the dimensions of that, we don't have the answer
to the most relevant. We don't. We know placement, but we don't know size. I mean, it's, it's considerably different than what's in our packet. Yes.
Considerably. There's a lot of open space, which I'm guessing will cut down on the square inches or square feet. So it
may fall into that category where they could have two signs. We don't know. We don't know.
Not to interrupt because it's not going to change anything. But we are removing the second sign. Yeah. I'm sorry. You said you are we are okay. It's up against the other business sign
that says massages and nails and so you can't see it whatsoever. So people that have even lived in tarpon are like, oh, we didn't even know you were here. So that sign doesn't
serve any purpose. So it's going to come down. I mean, I actually kind of like the oval nature of that sign better than the sign you presented. Thank
you. I would like it even better if you cut off those poles and placed it on the ground like a monument sign and make it shorter. The poles, the two poles that extend from the
bottom of the sign on the new one that you're showing us tonight. So I think the issue with that was visibility, because we don't want to cut down the palm tree. There's a palm tree right there. So we're
trying to rise it up. So when people drive by, but I can ask the sign people if there's a way that we can do that. We're concerned about visibility. I think. Yeah, the issue is the way we're looking at visibility
in a historic district is for pedestrians. And this sign is geared towards cars. So and I recognize that signs are an identifier. I get that, but we all go somewhere we haven't
been before. And what do we do. We Google map it until we get there. And then really what you just need most places just need is a sign that goes, yep, you're in the right place. Here's the Blue Bayou Inn. And
you turn in before you. And I think the new placement of it, I think is better than your old placement, because people are going to see it and then they'll have time to, to turn in. But I think a seven eight
foot sign is out of scale with what else is along Tarpon Avenue in the historic district. So like I said, if you, you know, dropped it down to like a five foot sign overall, but I,
I, I personally like the oval shape a little better. I think it's a little more interesting. And then my last comment is the materials need to reflect the building. And it's not an
aluminum building. And aluminum is not a historic material. So, you know, you've got a, a block stucco building. So if you made
those columns out of stucco, you know, I think that would go a long ways towards improving it too. I know the sign box itself. By that, I mean the
oval is going to be made out of probably not wood. I mean would, would be ideal. But you know, I know in Florida, but I think if you added, you know, made those columns that are supporting the
sign in the same material as the the inn, I think that would be a great deal to tie the building into the sign, which is the goal of the signs. The other option, and I just saw
this today because I was driving around, if you wanted a taller sign, if you look at the sign at hours restaurant, it's a little further west and the brewery that's right next to it,
they both have a pole sign and they have a sign at the top of the pole. So that would get you the height. But it's a decorative pole. It's I mean, it looks very historic. It looks very authentic. So if
that's if the visibility is an issue, that might be another way to skin the cat. Okay. Perfect. Right across the road. Okay. Thank you. Does somebody
want to make a motion to continue to the next meeting? I'll move to continue the application. I guess I'm before I make the motion, I'm a little concerned about the, the timing
of this. If we I understand if we make a if we continue to a date certain. It doesn't need new advertising, but I want to be mindful of the staff's ability to review a new application or a new sign. So
should you want it to be to the next available agenda. And if that happens and it does need new advertising. So I'm looking for your comments, Miss Lanford, about that with something as simple as a sign, if they can
quickly get me the dimensions of the proposed and materials of the proposed design, like within the next two days or so, that would be fine. We can do a date. Certain. Okay, so I'll
make a motion to continue the case to our August agenda and to allow the applicant to resubmit a new sign design that.
With some points of discussion I want to make. I didn't get to tell you fast enough. I think we need to look at our signs for historic districts to be
historic looking new modern signs do not fit on Tarpon Avenue and in the fruit section area or the whole area. That is
the historic in tarpon. I don't want I don't care for aluminum signs. They're too modern for our community. And I think that the sign company could help the
applicant with a more historic type sign and how to put it up. And I think we need to work on that. You all do a tremendous job in the building department,
but that's something we've got to look at as new development comes in. And that's why I will not support this tonight. I was
surprised to see that one. Okay. We we have a motion. Yeah. But you didn't ask me if I wanted to say well, you don't have. Yeah. We don't want to go past. That's what you're going to how
you're going to vote. Okay. I think I need if I might amend my motion, I believe Mr. Saltzman is going to advise me that we need to have a date certain. So the meeting, I believe, is August 3rd. Is that
correct? So the motion would be to continue the case to the August 3rd meeting. Would you accept that? Yes. Okay. And you're good with that. Okay. All right. Any any more
discussion on the motion. Is everyone understand it. Okay.
Let's let's vote. Miss. Yes. Mr. Bonnie. Yes. Mr. Cadena. Yes. Miss. Kaplan. Yes.
Chairperson. Burzynski. Yes. Okay. So you understand what? Yes, absolutely. Get her things within two days. And then the next meeting is August 3rd. And then I took notes of everything
you guys said. Perfect, perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you.
All right. Number 26.55 boil certificate of appropriateness to construct a new carport at
330 Pineapple Street. Carolyn. This first slide shows the the location and land use context within a residential district
in the fruit salad neighborhood. This slide is showing the location of the subject property at the edge of the local historic district, the southern edge. This slide is
giving you the information about the property. It is a masonry vernacular. It is considered Noncontributing and Non-historic. The property
Appraiser's website has it listed as constructed circa 1925. However, it's not extant on the 1926 Sanborn map. There is no Florida Master site file
associated with the property. It is historic. You can. You can tell from from the few remaining architectural elements. But the architectural integrity of the structure has been degraded to the point
where it is considered Noncontributing and non-historic. And the applicant is seeking a certificate of appropriateness to construct a 20 foot by 18 foot carport on
the Pineapple Street frontage of the subject property. These are plans provided by the applicant for the proposed project, showing a two foot
setback from the right of way. This slide shows the facade of the subject property facing Pineapple Street. This is the
proposed area of construction. This is giving a northwest view of the subject property. Some context of Pineapple Street
looking north and to the west, I mean to the south. The relevant standards of review related to this case are new
construction, consistency, and the proposed carport is consistent with respect to height and width of other carports located throughout the
local historic district. With respect to the neighborhood and district context, the proposed carport could be viewed as
adversely altering the historic streetscape by changing the relationship between the open space and the street. The proposed carport does not
conform with district standards. Primarily, the applicant is proposing a two foot setback from the property line. And
we'll go into the conformance with other city code requirements. So when it comes to carports, we can look at it sometimes as an accessory accessory structure. When it's
located behind the established front, setback of the primary structure. But the square footage that they are looking at for this carport, we need to
treat it like a detached garage. And within their zoning district, which is the 60 that requires a 25 foot front
setback for a detached garage. With respect to our design review guidelines, manual accessory structures should be located in the rear yard or the
side yard, or the side yard that is closest to the rear yard. And in those cases where we do allow structures along the public right of way or
within the public view, they should be designed in the same architectural style as the principal building, and the new garage should be compatible with the primary building in
terms of scale, massing and style, and compatible with the street and alley environments of the historic district. You know, we we like to propose
things that are in keeping with the historic style of the primary structure. So for those reasons, staff is recommending denial of the application as it
has been presented. If the PB approves the project, I would recommend that the condition that the certificate of appropriateness would expire in three years. If a building permit has not been issued, and
with that, I will enter my staff report and presentation into the record and answer any questions you might have. Okay. Thank you. Any questions for
Carolyn? Yes, Anita. Go ahead. I call on you. Thank you. I couldn't understand why he said what was the denial? So I am
recommending denial of the proposed carport because it does not conform with city standards. Also, if they're proposing an aluminum
freestanding carport with a 1925 era masonry vernacular home. But it's not going to be
two story. I want to know, ma'am, because that I was asked that question and I told the person that I said, I, I really don't know. The height and width that they're proposing is,
is not it's fairly consistent with other carports that are found throughout the district. It's really the style and the location so close to the Pineapple Street frontage, but
it is going to be aluminum. Yes, ma'am. That's what I believe is proposed. That probably better answered by the applicant. Okay.
Miss Langford, so the proposed setback from pineapple is about two feet, is that correct? Yes, ma'am. That's the required setback is 25ft. Yes. So if
they moved it to the 25 foot mark, that still wouldn't be behind the front facade of the house. Would it have to go further, whatever direction that is west to be behind the front facade of the house, it
looks like the front setback is 30 something feet. Well, it's really hard to tell on this. It's hard to tell from the
plans provided. But if we go to the relevant code section, it does just say in terms of the
code, it says that it needs to be 25ft in terms of the historic district guidelines, we would prefer. That is a recommendation that it be past
the the primary structure. In other words, behind the front facade of the house. Yes. Okay. So in this case, that would be further to the west. Yes. Okay.
All right. Thank you. I'd like to note, is aluminum is it allowed in flood areas? Yes, I
believe so. Does flood down. It would oxidize but it wouldn't rust. I mean it would it wouldn't fall apart. Are you are you concerned about like
hurricane stability or wind stability or rusting, rusting wind and hurricane and just actual flooding down that
street, which just happened? Yeah, it just happened. And if it had to be replaced, they would have to come back again. If it was aluminum instead of a
structure like the house. I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. Maybe. Mr. Chairman. Yes, I want to clarify in this in my head, Miss Langford. So at this
location that's proposed on the plans, they would need a variance to put it at the two foot mark. Yes they would if this board approved that, they would need to seek a variance. Okay. Thank you. How many
structures can you have on a lot that size? There's a house, there's a pool. There's another place in the back. That's really a question that that is locationally based property by
property. There's there's maximum depending on, you know, what we're talking here. If we're talking a potting shed, if we're talking a detached garage, it kind of varies. It's
beautiful there. Let's say that would. Carolyn, would you have treated this any differently if it was a pergola or a gazebo or something? Do we still fall
under the same setbacks? No, I would still be recommending denial simply because of the non conformance with code and the impact to the historic
streetscape. Okay. Thank you, thank you. All right. Is there anything that you would. Recommend or a way that this
would be able to be allowed? What would, in your opinion, in my opinion, I really, truly feel I believe they have alley
access. You know, putting a carport off of the alley would be more appropriate. Moving it behind the fence would be more
appropriate. I can't see it's really about the location there that seems to to not really conform with our historic
district. Okay. All right. Any other questions for Carolyn? Okay. If not, is the applicant
here? And you can state your name and your address as you speak. Okay. My name is Craig
boil with boils aluminum and screening here representing the homeowner, Mrs. Lauderdale. And
also Danielle Sereda. I am here with boils aluminum. Okay. This
is awesome. Okay. So the proposed structure, primary purpose of the structure for the homeowner is, you know, to
protect from the trees above, you can see the, the driveway that's there. It's, it's been an existing driveway that's been in place for quite some time. And this is the primary
parking area for the homeowner. The biggest issue has become, you know, the tree and keeping, you know, the vehicles clean and keeping the area clean and
that debris off of the vehicles. So we were contacted by the homeowner to, to come out and provide an estimate for building the enclosure or excuse me, the carport
structure out of aluminum. The primary reason for the aluminum. I know there was a couple questions regarding the aluminum. Majority of our structures are built out of
aluminum, mostly because of the inability to rust. So that is one one primary, you know, function of the aluminum structure is that it does not have the ability to rust over
time because of the salinity in the air. You can get an oxidation or corrosion that can happen to the aluminum, but it will never rust because it's aluminum. The other the other
reason that we build out of aluminum is because every structure that we build, whether it's a carport, screen, enclosure, pool enclosure, they're, they're all built out
of aluminum and they're engineered site specifically for that location. So when we send it off to our engineers for their approval before
building anything, they are actually pulling up that that homeowners address, seeing how it lies within the wind zone code. And we have to build so that the engineer is satisfied
that it's going to it's going to withstand a hurricane, you know, during, during that time of year. So that's primarily why we're building it out of out of aluminum. In this
particular case, we generally build the carports a little higher, a little taller, excuse me, but a in this case, we actually lowered it a little
bit from the homeowners request so that it was not as high up as we would normally do it, mostly to try and minimize the amount of, you know, hindrance
to the public's view of the house and, and the appearance of, of everything. In addition to that, we, we did increase the size of the posts for the structure to a six by six
aluminum post, which is larger than the required three by three post primarily for appearance. But it is also going to, to aid in the strength, you know, of the
structure being able to withstand the storm. So the biggest issue. You know, being the the two foot setback is
we're conforming to the existing drive and parking area that's there. So we're trying to, you know, set it back as far as we can, but still allow
as you as you can see from that photo right there for the homeowner to take advantage of the protection from the tree and everything above. Let's see
here the proposed work. It's a white structural panel roof, which is an insulated. Insulated aluminum panel roof
over the the parking area. The use existing residential use remains entirely unchanged. As you had mentioned, the home is
built in 1925 but is not part of the historic district. And as far as it being considered a garage, I disagree with that in
the fact that it is all open sides. Generally, a garage is a completely enclosed, you know, structure where you're pulling the vehicle into. But I think
it has to do with the the size, the square footage of it, the square footage was, was determined based upon the actual parking area itself, so
that both vehicles can, can fit underneath that structure. And just going off of the existing parking area. Scroll through
here. There's no new driveway that's being put in, no new parking area. Again, it was an existing parking area that
exists now. So you can see this is just a 3D rendering that we do for all of our customers before we build, so that they can envision the project to
make sure that we're all on the same page. As far as the the overall design, again, generally our, our carports are a little taller than this generally around. We're
building one right now up in, in Pasco County. That's for a motor coach and that's 18 foot tall. So you know, they can get substantially large, you know, tall. But this this we actually
did drop it down so that it stays within the conformity of the house. Protection of the historic character. No
demolition, no historic fabric removed, windows untouched, doors untouched. So we're not doing anything to the
surrounding, you know, home. Every element of the proposed carport has been selected to harmonize with the existing property conditions, rather than introducing new materials
or forms in conflict with the historic setting, the design builds upon what already exists on the site existing white fencing. So the homeowner did
choose a color to try and blend with the design of the home, as well as the fencing. We're preserving the tree, you know,
instead of trying to remove a tree that's been there for quite a long time, we're trying to conform to that tree being
there and just, you know, keep things clean and, and tidy. The streetscape impact carport sided and scaled to avoid dominating the public view.
Again, we could have made it a little bit larger in the initial design stages. And as far as height of the structure, but we did intentionally try to
bring it down to a reasonable, reasonable size existing driveway area, no expansion into the open yard or new
pavement areas. Did you want to? Go? Yes, a little quicker. I'm going to hand it off to Danielle. Let her go down, down,
down. Okay, okay. This is to address the visual impact from the street. The existing tree covers and filters. It softens the view from the street. If
you look, the carport was going closer into the house. The fence is what is going to be on the property line with the tree going back. The carport is
remaining a secondary structure parking area is staying in its current location. There's no change to the existing layout. These are photos within a one
block area of the work location. Some of these are in the front. Some of them are in the back. Some of the ones in the front, as you can see, are aluminum, but they are not as
esthetically cohesive as what we are proposing. And on his point is the closed garage.
This is a completely open air space. My husband John and my sister in law Jackie, we live
there, so I don't know if you have any questions for us specifically. I know one of the things that was addressed was the back alley. We do have a back alley, but there's no room
there for any parking. There's a small guest house and a pool, so certainly that would have been an option if we could have taken on. But there's no we would have a bigger variance
issue there than we would here, even if we could manage to find a space. So that was our reason for doing it this way. Okay,
before we ask you any questions, are you finished with your presentation? I just did want to address one thing. We were already made aware of the variance, and we're already
prepared to move forward with that as a condition. Okay. Any anything else before we ask any
questions. Okay. Thank you. Stay where you are. Any any questions for the applicants? I apologize for me. I become a
grandmother to kittens from the vet. So. So this is going to be one story and it's going to be open. It's not going to be
aluminum legs like we have on the bayou now. And the legs are aluminum. It is the the post. Yeah. The entire structure is aluminum, including the post. Well, what I mean is, are the
legs, are you going to encase it with wood or are you going to see aluminum. I we we can in case it in wood, that would be just an exterior trim that we could do afterward. My
recommendation, if we were going to encase the post would would probably to, to use a, a faux wood, like a composite material so that it's not going to, you know, degrade over time
and, and rot. That's the, the main issue with the wood is that, you know, especially if a flood were to take place again, the majority of that would have to be changed out. The roof
will be. It's considered a mono slope roof. It's a very low slope roof system. So it's not a drastic slope, mostly because of the type of roof system that
we're using. It's a newer it's called an insulated composite panel roof. So what it does is it's it's a foam polystyrene foam insulated with aluminum
skin on the top and bottom, but you don't see any of that. It's actually encased the outer trim of it in a, in a decorative
fascia trim. So. Okay. I guess I don't really have comments from the applicants. Okay, later, later. I don't have any
questions for the applicant. Oh I'm sorry. Okay, I misunderstood. Anything else for the applicants. Okay.
Anybody any public here have any comments? You're allowed to
make a comment. Okay. Well, we need to we need to discuss this now. I, I have a lot of
concerns about the application, mainly related to location and materials. I reviewed the information that we were sent today from the applicant, but that had the last page had a
bunch of photos of different carports. And honestly, I drove down pineapple bath Shaddock lime lemon and I didn't see the
only carport I. The only metal carport I saw was on the alley, which didn't bother me. It's on the alley. Nobody would see it. The other carports are the ones
on pineapple are really attached to the building. You know, they're part of the building. They were built at the same time of the building. So, I mean, it was hard to see to identify where these examples were because there's
no addresses given. But I sure didn't see any of these on the street that this site is located on. I think the location pulling it right out to the street, which is the front door of the street, the
front door of the house, it's the main facade. It totally disrupts that whole streetscape. Not to mention they need a variance. I mean, there's a reason why accessory structures
go in the side or the back of the yard. So I appreciate that they have a smallish site. They've got a lot of things on the site. If there's if the alley is not an option, like I,
I did see they do have the alley. I drove the alley. Another option might be to attach a wooden. Carport to the
north side of the building and have it tucked back in there, you know, adjacent to the if it was attached to the building somehow, not metal, I'm not going to. I don't think
aluminum carport is appropriate. That's the only way I would consider it is if it was tucked up against the house in a wooden style with features from
the house, you know, some way to, you know, make it see, show it as accessory, but not ruin the streetscape along pineapple because this will it's totally
disruptive in my opinion. I mean, I appreciate everybody wants a carport. I understand that. I want a carport, I don't have one on my house and I know other people don't either. It's part of being a historic
district. It's a challenge. And unfortunately, in your case, the alley would have been ideal. Except you have, you know, you have other things. You have the guest house and you have a pool. So. I don't know what I don't
know. I really don't know what this little finger is, is on the north edge of the house. If that's just a walkway or something that you could take out and, and snug the carport, a wooden carport adjacent to
the house, I would consider that, but I, I don't think this is meets the design guidelines.
As Miss Lanford stated. Okay. Actually, I should have taken I should have asked for a motion before we started discussion.
You're perfect. Pardon me. I think you're perfect. But let's. Is there any other discussion?
Okay, I do need some sort of motion. I'll move to deny the application as submitted because of its noncompliance with the design guidelines for
location and materials. I'll second the motion. Okay. Now, any more discussion on that on that motion. And does everyone
understand it? I just want to make sure that when we if we do approve a carport or garage, of course, that the aluminum still
bothers me in a historic district. And, and the reason I asked was the flooding is because I know it doesn't rust,
but still I see what happens with it and the wind so that I will not support aluminum in historic district. And I certainly understand the
strength of the aluminum and wanting that. I suppose I wouldn't be against cladding it with either wood or, as you
called it, the foa foa lumber, the plastic wood. I wouldn't have a real problem with that. It would change the whole look of the of the carport. And I agree, I would the faux wood. I
would entertain that too, but not at this location. That's right on the street. So for you in front location, it's both it's the materials and you know, it's a corner. So you know,
there's two, two streets of course. And so I, I thought before I went there, I thought, well, maybe this is their side secondary street, which I think still I had a concern about the
variance. But it's not this is the front door is there. They're addressed off pineapple. I have a problem with it being so close so close to the to the
right of way. Okay. Any other comments on the motion before we vote? No, let's vote. I
repeat the motion, please. Everyone will understand it's. The motion was submitted to deny as submitted due to design
review guidelines and along with the. It does not conform to the Land Development Code. I think what I actually said was noncompliance as to location
and materials as described in design guidelines. So it's to me it's location and the materials. Okay. That's important. And I have a question. So if we the motion is to deny. So if we say yes,
you're voting to deny. That is correct. Mr. Solomon. Okay. Okay. Everyone understand the motion. Ready to vote. Let's
vote. Miss produce. Mr. Yes. Mr. Cadena. Yes. Miss Kaplan, chairperson. Rosinski. Yes.
Okay. Do you understand what happened? Okay. It was denied. I get it, you got it. Okay. It
doesn't mean you can't reapply, reapply, rethink. Sure. That
property. And we put a lot of money to beautify when that happened. Comments throughout the day. And I'm like, oh my God, let's stop the time to
time and maybe every other problem is not there until you refresh doctoral degree, you know, to say that we are, we're not, we're doing something
that's against the law. But most people would come up with something that's fine. And then there's something that you. And
this is something that. You know, it's. 100 years ago. The rest of us today. Technology.
70% of the liver is natural. And that specialized. I just want to share that he didn't have that problem. So anyway, I
disagree with something you say, okay, except what you're saying, okay. Well, come back and make
all of that those statements again and show us a little something different and we'll see what we could do. And I
think I, I think what we've said is that we would be open to, I wouldn't normally say this, but we would be open to a simulated wood or whatever you guys want to call it to clad it
and you got to get it off the street. I mean, you really have
you. Or not? That's. It's not.
A government. Well, I think unfortunately whatever you do, it's it's going to it's going to reduce the size of your yard.
So I mean, we shouldn't be. Yeah, we really need this discussion. Shouldn't be. We've given you we've given you some suggestions. We appreciate it. We I know you've got a tight situation because you've got a
lot of things going on on the property. But it just and it's not just being in a neighborhood, it's being part of a historic district. So there's another layer of review and that's what we're here for. We're going to we're going to
move on. But I do hope that you rethink and and come back. Sorry. Okay. Next application
26.41. Tarpon registry. Certificate of appropriateness. To construct a two story structure at 144 East Tarpon Avenue. Carolyn. Yes. So this
first slide is showing you the location and land use context within the the special area plan in the T5B district
transect. This slide is showing you the location of the subject property within the National Register and Local Historic District. The property is
currently a vacant lot, so it is non contributing non historic. Just to give. And the applicant is seeking a certificate of appropriateness to construct a new two story
mixed use building on the vacant lot which is both in the national and local historic district. This slide is showing you the former building that
was located on this property. Just to give a little bit of background, it was the GE Noblet building. It was formerly the site of a hardware
store and bakery. It was a rusticated concrete block structure, two story with a balcony that had a shed roof and iron railings, decorative
cornice, and you can see that here. It also had a marble name and date block, which we still have today. And the clerk's
office. Just this. This slide is showing you how in 2008, over time, the building had
been inappropriately altered. And at the time, in 2008, the city looked at acquiring the building. There were. There were three buildings on the
site. This is the structure that was located at 138 East Tarpon Avenue. It featured this arched, recessed entry. The
survey for the property. So when the city looked at acquiring the site, all three structures on the property were found to be unsound. The city
demolished the structures and then the community redevelopment area purchased the property last year. In April of 2005, the CRA issued
an invitation to negotiate for development proposals with mixed use, and the registry was the. The ranked. The top ranked
proposal. So this is showing the proposed site plan for the
registry. The floor plan. This is the second level floor plan. The slide is showing you the proposed elevations at the top
there. That is the west elevation. And these show the south elevation. In the north elevations. The north elevation would be what is facing Tarpon
Avenue. The south elevation would be facing Court Street. And there at the bottom you can see the proposed elevations for the courtyard. You can get a
little bit better sense from these renderings provided by the applicant. So this would be the the Tarpon Avenue elevation
showing they're proposing an alcove entry. And this would be the Court street elevation. And this is a rendering of the
proposed courtyard. So our relevant standards for review would be new construction new construction consistency. The
proposed height would be 30ft and the width would be the width of the property which is 50ft. This is consistent. There would be a slight varying side
setback on the west side that has been proposed. These dimensions are consistent with other contributing structures on Tarpon Avenue. With respect
to the windows, doors and entries. The design review guideline manuals provides us with some some guidance for looking at windows and doors on
new construction. We want types, proportions and alignments that are typical of the type of building being constructed and sensitive to the historic
district. We want some similar window spacing patterns and the ratio of windows to wall on the primary street elevation. And in this case, there's kind of
two primary street elevations should be similar with historic structures. With respect to the proposal, the storefront doors and windows are typical of
commercial buildings. The simple design that is being proposed is sensitive to the historic district and consistent with the surrounding architecture in terms of proportion, spacing and
alignment. And it's not trying to reproduce a false historic appearance. It has a storefront that looks similar to any modern storefront, but is simple in design, so it's not
detracting from the historic district. The first floor entry on the Tarpon Avenue facade would utilize a double full pane doors with sidelights and transom, which is consistent
with the character of the surrounding neighborhood, and on the second floor would be full pane French style aluminum doors providing a fenestration
rhythm. That's and ratio that's complementary to other contributing structures on Tarpon Avenue. Again, without trying to create a false historic appearance with
respect to the Court Street facade, it's very similar to the Tarpon Avenue facade, except they're proposing the use of divided light windows on that second floor, and the
proportion, spacing and alignment are sensitive to the character of the streetscape and the surrounding architecture. With respect to neighborhood and district context, the proposed
construction would alter the existing streetscape, but the argument could be made that it's restoring the rhythm of the historic streetscape with
respect to roof shape and texture. Flat roofs are common throughout the the National Register and the local historic district for commercial
structures. I believe all of the surrounding contributing structures have flat roofs, with the exception of the train depot. With respect to size and
massing in shape, it's compatible with contributing structures in the district and the immediate vicinity. With respect to landscaping, the
landscaping plan would need to be developed to conform with code requirements as part of the building permitting process.
I don't know. And then with respect to adherence to the Secretary's guidelines, again, since we're dealing with vacant LOT, largely it's related to
the new construction being undertaken in a manner that it's not having a negative impact on the integrity of the
historic district itself. And the proposed project does conform with the Land Development Code and generally complies with the comprehensive
plan. And these are just giving us some guidelines for the new construction, many of which I've already spoken about. And
so staff is recommending approval of the project. But I would like to see the following conditions incorporated into any approval that the HPV may
give. So we do still have that historic marble name and date plate. I think it would be great to incorporate that into the construction of the new structure, not in the same
place that the historic structure had it, not in a way that is in any way trying to give the sense that this is the historic structure, but just keeping a little bit of that,
the history of the building in its natural, you know, unique location. I would also suggest that the facade is somewhat
monotonous and including some sort of archway design into that courtyard entrance would be nodding to the building's
historic past, kind of restoring the historic rhythm of the streetscape. Just adding a little bit of visual esthetic interest to the facade. It
doesn't have to be a physical archway. It could just be, you know, something in brickwork or something like that. I'm just putting that out there as, as a potential improvement on, on
the proposed design that might restore some of the historic features of what was once there. And then finally, that the certificate of appropriateness would expire in three years. If a building permit has not been
issued for the project. So I'll enter my staff report and presentation into the record and answer any questions you might have. Thank you. Carolyn.
Any questions for Carolyn? No. Okay. The applicant please. State your name and address if
you would. Joe Harrington, 7504 North Mobley Road, Odessa, Florida. Casey Smith, 115 North
Gross Avenue. Okay, thank you for your for your time this evening. As as mentioned, we went through the process just about the end of last year, our
development agreement and going through the processes here, both TRC and historic preservation, we've taken care to present, you know, a design that we felt, you know, fits
into the historic fabric of Tarpon Springs without recreating what has been lost. Unfortunately, in regard to the arch, if you if you look back at that original building, the
original building was 40ft wide and there was ten foot gap. And that that third building was added. Yeah. There you go. So that original mass was 40ft wide and two and two stories
tall. What we're doing is taking the full 50ft wide and going two stories tall. And we really spent a lot of time addressing the scale and the proportion. We broke down our
elevations into four equal bays. And through one of those bays, you enter the courtyard into the center. So we do feel like just adding an arch because there used to be one on the street is, is, you know, not
compatible with the, the way that we approve historic properties. Having said that, though, we are open to and as we've been since the very beginning, open to the
community's input, I'm happy to say to this point, we've heard nothing but but great praises and excitement for the project, and we're super excited to have this opportunity. And, you know,
look forward to hearing your comments. Thank you. Okay. Any questions for the applicants?
Thank you. I do have some comments, Mr. Harrington. A couple of things. Big picture. First, you're obviously not using the building lot line to
lot line. You've got, I guess, is that a ten foot, 11 foot opening on the west side that leads to the courtyard? And then you have an open courtyard
in the middle. Your thoughts as to why you didn't want to make the building go lot line to lot line. It does go to lot line, lot line. It's a little confusing on that ground floor plan because we're just cutting through the first level. So
this is the Tarpon Springs elevation as you see, you know, the the edge of the brick is basically lot line to lot line that pass through. Is that right? Bay all the way to the
right on the ground floor? That's the opening through the courtyard. Also, you can see in there, it's, it's small, but we, we presented it in our ITN response that we did
incorporate the marble face block. So we have a little, little exhibit right there. It's also part of our artwork. We're required to provide artwork, but we've we've tied it into the history of Tarpon
Springs with the mural. So that's also right in that area. Oh, can I point again, just let me know what slide you want to.
In here. No. The one that you were. Yeah. No the one. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah. So so the edge of the building is right here. Right here. That's the full
50ft wide on the ground floor. You're just seeing this area. And then there's that ten foot wide walkway that leads back into the courtyard. This is right. Right here is where
we've we put the marble face block, the Noblet face block with a little plaque explaining the history of the building. So. So what is the purpose of the
courtyard in the in the center of the property? It's twofold. So that was one of the strategies that we were able to use to get hotel rooms on this block because it is such a
narrow site. So this provides natural light and views for the hotel rooms above. And then it also opens up and provides this mid block entertainment area
that opens up onto a, a small lounge and then an indoor event space as well. I'll show you
the plan. So this is the this is Court Street here. This is the indoor event space. And then this is the open courtyard. So this courtyard will open to the event space. And it can
also open into the lounge. And then it's open to Tarpon Avenue. So we envision, you know, especially on festival days or when there's a special event that this, you know, comes through and becomes porous. You
can enter the building along Court Street on the center, and actually walk all the way through. Just moving on to before I get into my questions,
I just, I do want to say, I think there's many facets about the project that I really like. I like that it's only two story. Frank personally. I mean, three would have been okay, a little more challenging in terms of
the front facade design, but I like the two. I think there's, I think the uses will be complementary to, to the street, which is not our purview. But, you know, I think that's a good feature. I like some some of
the materials, some of the materials I have questions about. I do like that you've got you're using the bays along there, the four bays along the Tarpon Avenue and frankly, on the Court Street side to
replicate the pattern that we have and the, the, the display windows that we have along many of the buildings along Tarpon Avenue. So there's a lot of good things about it. So please
don't take my comments negative, but I, I don't understand a couple of them and some I just need some more information. So with regard to this is shown on
the site plan. And then it's also shown on the court street elevation on the site plan it says roll up. What's that word
roll up entry. There's three of them along the back along the court street side and on the court elevation. There is what appears to be a industrial roll
up door on the right, furthest right panel. What is that? Yeah, it's overhead sectional door. I think it's called out because we we submitted again we were
going through it and process. And so to close on the land we have to submit for TRC and historic preservation. So one of those site plans is from TRC. And we developed it a little
bit since since submitting for HPV. But these are the elevations. I think this door that you're referring to here, this is on Court Street. This is the main hotel entrance. And what what we tried to do here
was because the building so narrow and it's so long and we have double frontages, we try to make an area of the, of the building to handle where we could bring in our services
deliveries. We're going to have a trash dumpster in there, our grease, our grease trap. And we're trying to keep as much as we can actually off the street and behind closed doors. We'd
like to get our water infrastructure there. We don't know if we're going to be able to do that with TRC. I'm sorry, what was the last thing your water, the water infrastructure, like the backflow preventers and all of that that's out on
the street. So we made some space intentionally to deal with the service aspects of the building. And that's why we decided to put the the roll up door there to help with the,
the scale compatibility. We ran these clerestory windows all the way across. So we're maintaining that datum. And we, you know, we felt that the sectional door was appropriate in scale along with the rest of
the elevation. But that's the thought. Well, I reserve my comments. So on the site plan where it says roll up, what does it say? I think we have we have there's two others, two
others to the on the. Yeah, there, those are not in the plan anymore. So we, we, we're thinking about making these roll up entries and allowing people to pass all the way through. But there's an 18 inch
grade difference from Tarpon Avenue to Court Street that we're making up through the building, and to also provide access to this area. Just we couldn't get the grades to work out. So we've since switched
these to fixed, fixed storefront with only one point of entrance on Court Street. Okay, so that part is outdated. That particular site plan. Yeah,
that was that was from TRC. Sorry about that. Okay. To the
on the Tarpon Avenue elevations. I'm looking at both the elevation and the rendering. I, I like the recessed front entrance. I like the first
level windows that you have showcase windows. I assume you're gonna have some kind of showcase windows in there for whatever retailer goes in there. But when you get to the second floor, the windows go floor to
ceiling. And I think you need to do something about that. It needs the first floor windows have a kick plate along the bottom, and then they have some changing, you know, change out
of the lighting of the lights within the windows. And, and those top the windows on the second floor are just two large panes of glass. And I just don't think that that's historically consistent with
what's going on other places. So if you have some ideas about how to fix that, I would like to hear that. Sure. We we added since since originally designing it, we added these in
to be a French doors. So they actually open up. And then we have the balcony that goes across Tarpon Avenue here along the sidewalk. And each one of these are a private balcony. So
those doors are operable and do open up. They're probably not shown, you know, graphically to your point, you know, that would be the kick plate there and a little bit smaller window.
But the intent is for those to be French doors. So the renderings that we have on that issue are, are not your current thinking and not your current design. They're fairly close. Yeah. I mean that the plans the plan show them as doors, but we
just didn't update the renderings with that specific. These are shown accurately accurately here. And then on the elevation it looks like floor to ceiling glass there too. I don't see anything.
Here's the doors on the elevation page. And again, where we are in the are the process is we're, we're almost through schematic design. So we're still fairly early in the design process for going
through these processes. So I understand that normally when you, you know, have them, all the selections are made, but we're, we're still early in the early in the design process. Okay. Well, that's a big issue
to me that the windows get that that gets fixed and it's, and it's not what we see here. The other thing on the facade is there's two, two story buildings to the north of you.
One is has two frogs in it, and the other one has a healing hedge, which the two frogs building has a second floor balcony and a shed roof on that balcony. The healing hedge,
which has a second floor balcony and a shed roof, approved but hasn't been constructed yet, so I don't. I'd like to see a shed roof on that second floor to be
consistent with what we have across the street, and actually to be consistent with what was on the building originally.
Okay. I'm concerned about that, and I share this concern about the entrance to the courtyard. I mean, I'm not sold on it has
to be an archway, but I think you need to do something to make that a little more obvious. Like this is where you go through people. This is this is the place. I mean, I think it's
kind of I see what you're doing. You've got a little pattern going, but I think something to jazz that entrance up and, you know, open to your suggestions. I think you need something with
regard to that. We do have our mural that's going to run through there. It talks about the history of Tarpon Springs, and it'll run right through this area here. And then we have that historic Noblet face
block as well. The other thing that, you know, may not really come through in the rendering that as you're walking down the sidewalk, you're already passing underneath the balcony. And I do believe it'll be
fairly, you know, straightforward. You'll also see natural light coming through the other end of this. It's only about 35ft until it opens up into the courtyard. So we're definitely going to do
everything, you know, in our ability to help funnel people down that direction as well. But I had a couple questions
about materials. I can just find the right page. So I'm looking at the elevation page and it's so small, it's really
hard to read. So I guess what I'm reading is that the maybe you could go to the facade. One of the renderings, either one. Sure. So I'm assuming that the
the facade is brick. It's real brick. Yes. Okay. What about the windows themselves? The window surrounds are aluminum
or aluminum. Okay. And what about are those what you call eyebrows along the second floor, above those windows? Is that what you're calling an eyebrow? And is that aluminum? Yes. Okay.
So if you you can take those out and then you put the shed roof. Then you don't need to have the four individual ones. But. So that would be aluminum to I'm sorry I didn't follow
you on the last part. So if you take off the the four eyebrows and make a shed roof over the whole thing, which honestly, I think your patrons are going to be a lot happier with the roof there than just a little
without any shade. And it's consistent with what's, you know, occurring in the area that would that be aluminum as well? More than likely, yes.
Okay. And the. It says number eight is an aluminum canopy. I'm not sure where is that on the court street side. What is
the aluminum canopy? Is there a let me see if I can see it here. I don't know if that was the
canopy on the. It's probably the ones up on the second floor,
but let me. Yeah, it's. The canopy is up on the second floor that we were just talking about. The canopy on the floor,
what we discussed, what we called the eyebrows. Okay, so all that is aluminum. Are there eyebrows on the I forget it are
eyebrows on the Port Street side too? Yes. But no balconies on the Court Street side, no balconies on that side. And the canopy on the above. The first
level on both facades is also aluminum. Yes. Correct. It'll be decorative and it'll be it'll be decorative aluminum. It'll be all custom. It's not,
you know, like just in context of the discussion here, it's not like prefabricated aluminum or anything like that. Okay. That's all my questions, Mr.
Chairman. Okay. Anybody else can't these aluminum items, can you texturize them in any way that they don't look aluminum? Yeah. It'll be powder coated. So it'll it'll have it'll have
a finish. It'll have a color and a finish and a, and a slight texture on top of it. I
was at the city's presentation when there were three of you giving your plans and didn't the. Someone from the city
request some sort of roll up doors for security, for closing closing areas off at certain times that that point we were specifically talking about this
gate here on Tarpon Avenue, which is still is still the case. It's just shown open. But yes, this will be able to be closed after hours. And it was a security reason and it was something that the city, as I
recall, they actually requested. Right. Okay. Well, let's talk about that. Roll up for a second. I think there's a lot of other solutions. I understand the need to have some delivery, some back of
house. I get all that, but I don't get is the roll up industrial door. I think you need a better solution for that. And I'm sure there's a lot of things you could do that aren't clear glass so that people can
see through. I get that you don't want them to see through it, but an industrial roll up door in the main part of Tarpon Avenue, I just don't think is consistent with the historic guidelines. I understand the
need for it, but I I'm not going to vote for that with the historic with the roll up door. And I and I think you need to fix the windows on the front facade as well so that we can
see that change and then see whatever you're going to do as an alternative to the roll up door. Are you opposed to any
roll up door? So if it was a glass roll up door. Or if I mean just, just for the record, so you guys know where I'm coming from, I would never, I
would never propose something, especially in a historic district that I didn't feel was was tasteful and fitting. So I see that you don't want the roll up door as an industrial,
you know, sort of esthetic to it, but we'll select a really nice door. You know, we're not going to select like just the regular, you know, chunky roll up door like panelized. This would be more like an insulated
garage door. The idea here, we did look at having a double door as well instead of a roll up door. But the problem that we kept on running into is that these bays are so strong, and
we didn't want to put another, smaller door in here and confuse that with potentially the entrance. And it didn't fit up with those bays. So while I respect your opinion on the roll up door and can completely
see where you're coming from, we studied it a bunch of different ways and just honestly haven't been able to come up with another solution that works, but we're open to discussion now. I mean, it just
it's just it smacks of industrial to me. And I think, you know, part of the reason that these this building and, and quite a few others along Tarpon Avenue go all not all of them, but many of them do go
through to Court Street. And so you've seen changes to the backs of those buildings along Court Street to make them. Some of them are now open. There's antique store now that used to not be open from Court Street.
Now it's open from Court Street. So I think your building is going to activate Court Street. It's going to activate the south side of Court Street, where the city has been talking to some folks for a long time about putting a parking garage
and some retail. So if this starts to look too industrial, you know, it's going to have an impact on the people to court on the south side of Court Street. So, I mean, I just, I,
it's and I, and I guess I don't, I saw somewhere too that there's another roll up door inside the courtyard, which I guess is not going to be visible from the street. Yeah. You wouldn't, you wouldn't see it. This, it's not in this
rendering. This would be like where you would be standing with the door open, looking onto the courtyard. So that door would be back behind you, but it's not visible from the street. And that's going to be
like a nice glass garage door, essentially. And the purpose of that is to close off the courtyard. No, just so we can open up the indoor event space to the outdoor event space. And
that can flow through as one contiguous space. So can you go to the maybe can you show me where it is on the first floor
floor plan? Yeah, sure. Right here. Yeah. So I think Tarpon Avenue then this would be the three block connection. You
have the courtyard here, and then this would be the door that would open up. And that makes it so that these spaces can work as one. And then these are bifold doors. They open up
as well. They pocket back and then this space will open up as well to the courtyard. So no longer does there pass through. That goes all the way from tarpon to court. You can, you can pass through, you can pass
through the building. And what what changed? That was that 18 inch change in grade. So the way that we handled it in our in our building was there's a series of two small ramps right here by the restrooms. So we're
able to make up that difference of 18in. And then there's some steps here in the courtyard. Just to address the change in elevation, right. Simply. And
you have the other uses on the first floor are. Or the uses on the first floor are a retail or restaurant or whatever space in the front. Yes, this is retail. And then this is a lounge with
small bites. These are the restrooms, back of house, elevator stair. This is the that area, that utility space that we were talking about for trash and grease interceptor.
This is the main entrance into the hotel, especially after hours. And then this is the indoor event space. I forget which building it is on Tarpon
Avenue, the one that used to be the Chevrolet. And they have the doors. They still are there that they're like bifold doors. They fold all the way to the side so that cars could go in
and out. So, I mean, I know it's a historic, a historic door type of door maybe doesn't exist anymore, but something if that's what you're proposing, you know, either place, you
know, on the interior, I'm really less I'm less concerned about the interior because you're not going to really see that. But I think, you know, like I said, there's we need a better solution for that Court
street facade. And if you don't want it to be, if you want it to be glass, but have some some way so that people can't see in it because it's your back of house. I get that, and I'd be
supportive. I normally don't like shaded glass or anything, but I understand in this case that that's what you need. You don't want to put you don't want to have, you know, your back of house on parade for
everybody to see the trash cans and like a frosted glass or something. Yeah, but some kind of frosted glass or something that's functions for what you need, but also still continues
that that view Assad. But I mean, realistically, how long will that door be closed? My understanding at that city
meeting was that the the supervisors did not want that open at all hours for people walking in and out and maybe hanging out in the courtyard.
They wanted that secure. So, I mean, it's not like that door is going to be down all day. It's only going to be at night, right when we're when we do not have the operating hours, when
we're closed, essentially. Yeah. On the ground floor. So I'd say, what are we planning for 10 to 8 I think. Yeah. And I'm sorry, are you asking if that garage door would be open the majority
of the day? No, not if that's our back of house where we're putting stuff in that would not be where people enter through. They would enter through the doors that were to the left of that. So, so at our city
meeting, I think that you're thinking about when there was the full thoroughfare all the way through. So there's not that any longer. So now you've got the event space on the right side, right? And there's doors there where people could
enter and tarpon on court. Well, but there's isn't there one on tarpon also. I'm sorry, that gate on the front side. Yes. So that gate would close after business hours. So probably around 8 p.m. at night. And is
that a gate or is that a roll up gate. So that's a gate. Okay. All right, I misunderstood. I said the gate. The gate you're talking about, Mr. Chairman, is is on the the opening on Tarpon Avenue side. Right. I thought
that was where the roll up was, but the roll ups in the back. I personally don't have a problem with with the roll with the
roll up door, especially if it's on court. Yeah, it's on court. It's just so it's everybody sees the plan. This is the area here. That's our back of house area. This is the
roll up door. This is Court Street. Okay. Thank you. And again, I mean, we we want this to be nice to we're incentivized. It's right next to our main entrance of the hotel. So, you know, having some potted plants out there.
And, you know, we're really going to take care to make sure it looks looks great. Sorry. I had another question on the Tarpon Avenue side. Are the
trees going to have to come out to be able to accommodate the the balcony or to accommodate the balcony? Yes, but you'll be replanting those oak trees. We
don't we don't have any area on our property to replant them. I don't know if the city is planning on replanting them. We were out there with an arborist a couple of times, but last
week, and it does look like they are in a declining condition. But to accommodate to accommodate the balcony, they do have to have to go as well as there's some power
poles to do, power poles. An above ground power regular above ground power pole is a it's a I don't I don't think it's a full power pole. It's just feeding what looks to be
the overhead lights, those high pressure sodium lights, the street lights. So that we have a couple of differences from,
from what you're contemplating now as compared to what you submitted, you've changed the windows on the second floor on the Tarpon Avenue facade. I
think we need to add the shed roof to be consistent historically. And then I would like to see something. I personally like to see something besides a roll up window door. I think if we
treat Court Avenue, Court Street as a secondary street, I mean, it's not Tarpon Avenue, I get that. But if we treat it as a secondary street and let it start to disintegrate, it's going to become a secondary
street. And you've got already people have activated the back. The other stores that, you know, back up to court to go all the way through. Have, you know, done improvements to their
backsides on court to. And I think this that should I think that we need a different solution than the roll up industrial door. You know,
there's a, there's a I think it's glass over on. So there's a building behind the Coca-Cola building that's on the same site. It's a little one story building. I think it's a
organic food store. Now. They have, they had a they have a garage door originally, and it might be glass. Okay. Yeah, I can take a take a look. It's
much wider, I think, than what you have. But the, the idea of it. And then if you wanted to put do the frosted glass to. I guess you want the roll up for
the height. Is that the whole problem and the width. Yeah. It just gives us a little flexibility in the future to. If we ever decide, you know, have a have a golf cart to move people around a valet or something like that, we could
pull it in there. We can put our trash cans in there. The trash collection is a bit uncertain. Any, any sort of deliveries we get like we need some extra furniture or something like that. We can bring it in right off the
street, close it in the door. So having that wide open access being that that's our only service point, was the reason why we we showed the overhead
door. And how wide is that bay that has the roll up door. I believe the door is eight feet wide, eight by eight. Yeah. Which is a small roll up door,
but you just don't want to have two doors where you lose the space of the doors opening. Is that the. Well, it's not not only that, but if we did double doors, if we did two, three
doors, you know, we'd have a six foot opening and we could make them tall. But what ended up happening was it threw off the proportion of this facade. So we really tried to keep the
four bays all the way through and on the ground floor. Those bays are completely infilled, you know, with glass. And we've run this horizontal across. So when we broke that with this,
with this bay here and just put in double doors, we looked at doing all this brick and just putting in double doors. We looked at keeping the bay and keeping the side light and doing double doors, but there
just really wasn't a way that we felt good about proposing it, you know, from from a proportion and rhythm, rhythm, the double, the I'm sorry, the overhead door fits nicely
within that opening. It's consistent from storefront to storefront. So that was our thought on, on including it. And like I said, you know, we don't want, we don't want to put all this money into this
building and, and all this time and energy and then, you know, just throw a, a junky roll up door on there. So, I mean, I think we're on the, we're on the same page with it. But yeah.
And how, how tall you said it's eight feet wide. How tall is it? Eight feet eight by eight. Yeah. Oh I'm sorry. No I'm sorry.
It's ten by ten. Ten by ten, 98. By eight, ten. Ten feet wide
and ten feet high. Yes. Okay. I personally don't have a problem with the with that door. Sorry.
When you see it installed on the side. Well, I'm not so sure. Okay. I mean, that's why we're all different people. We all have. And also the comment
about a shed roof. Are you are you talking about a, some sort of canopy over that second level? Is that what you're talking about when you like the
original building? Yeah, just like the original building has. And there's two other examples right across the street. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were
calling a shed roof. Shed roof? I think the people that stay in those rooms are going to be a lot happier with some kind of roof there. Yeah, we didn't want to recreate the exact building that was there. We
wanted to pay homage to it with the Proportioning, you know, the rhythm and obviously something that fit into Tarpon Springs. We did provide cover above these doors because we do
want cover, you know, in in this area, but we don't foresee, you know, I mean, it's just Casey and I were having this conversation today. It's hot in Florida, you know, and especially especially in the summer during the day, I don't
see people, you know, sitting out here during the day. This is going to be, you know, an evening thing. You want to have a nice, you know, glass of wine, put a couple chairs out there for our guests, but I don't
think it's going to make or break. It's also the north side of the building, so it's not getting direct sun. So I don't think it's going to, you know,
impact the utility of the balconies. And I agree that we shouldn't try to make it look just like the original building,
which is why I personally don't think it needs an arch anywhere in the front. And I'm afraid that a shed, the shed roof that we're talking about. Will make
the building look a little too top heavy. This is the only two story building on this on this side of the street till. Until you get all the way down to the end, where the one amazing fine
store is at. So the reason why we held this was we wanted to bring the scale down so it was more compatible with the rest of the one story buildings. Even though we are a two story building, this is still set
back from the edge. So this reads as one mass out in front like a layer. And then there's a second layer that reads the full height. So we did it
intentionally to break down the mass at the street. I can see that. And I, I agree with you. I think it's a wonderful design.
Thank you. As is. I'm afraid that that shed roof, you're going to need, what, six by six posts or something to hold it up. And it's I think it'll look
funny. You'd have to continue them down to the street. We did look at we looked at an option when we were. I mean, we've done, you know, there's probably 50 slight versions of this facade that, you know,
took us to get there. We refined it. And you have a couple of different issues, like you mentioned, you know, just getting the rainwater off, guttering and getting the downspouts down. It adds a whole nother surface to do that.
The scale I believe is, is really important. And, you know, I think just breaking down the whole, the whole scale of the building, setting it back, you
know, again, we want to, we want to propose what we feel, you know, is right is a good project is a project that everybody can be, can be proud of. And this is what that, that
results of that were. I think it was successful. Thank you. Any other questions for the
applicant? Do either of you have anything more to say. No. Oh you're standing up. No. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. All
right. Well then we're going to bring it back to the board here. But before we discuss it, I'd like to have some sort of
motion. To see if we even want to discuss this. I'll make a motion to approve for
discussion. I'm sorry. I'll make a motion in affirmative to approve. For discussion. Okay. Is that is that is that good
enough? Okay. Do we need a second on that? Yes. You're going to second. Okay. Good. Well, we have a motion in a second. So let's discuss. Thank
you to discuss. I think it's great. I can't hear you. I said I don't think there's anything to discuss. I like it well, I think it's a really, really, really good design. I think it's almost there. But I want
to see. He's already said that they've changed the windows on the second floor and the Tarpon Avenue. I want to see that because that's not what that's not what he says is the current design. And so we're approving something that in our practice
is really not what they're proposing. And I really feel strongly about that door in the back, I think. And what I'd like to see what that door is. I mean, I think you can come in with a glass door or some other
material that that is a little has a little more articulation to it still achieves his goal of this. I understand he wants the width and the height. I get that, but a solid barn door,
you know, industrial door. I just don't think it's consistent. What should we vote on it or she doesn't like it? Well, we're still discussing it. Okay. So no vote in my opinion.
Yeah, I am, and the shed roof is consistent with what's along the street. That's what our design guidelines say. I don't think it'll make the building seem taller. I think it'll I
think it will unify the whole building, honestly. I understand he doesn't want to do it, but that's not what I'm talking about. What the design guidelines say. And I think
design guidelines are argue, argue for a shed roof on the second floor. Any other
comments? I think it's a beautiful building. Looks like it belongs to New Orleans Bourbon Street. It's a little more modern than I thought it
would be, but it's a beautiful building. And between developer and the city, they've worked a long time. The building that was there years ago was
beautiful. It never have been destroyed. It's a strong building, and it was consistent with what used to be old Tarpon
Avenue. It was beautiful. I just hate to make changes that don't conform with the historic beauty of our main street, but
I like what I see here, and I do agree about the door. The rolling door. And I just hate to see aluminum Main Street,
but I can understand it and I just don't like it in a historic district. But I see why you have to have it. Well, he said that he would look at
other options for the door to release. Yeah. You mean we amend the motion? Would you amend the motion to say that they would don't have to bring the whole plants back, but the cut sheet or a drawing or
something, or some photographs of a typical door that they would put on the court street side, not bring the whole thing back. But I just I think we're going to be really sorry if we
don't fix that issue, that detail. I'll amend the motion for that. I'll be I think you can approve it. But if he will agree to come back for that
door. But once it's approved, does he have to do it? Well, it depends on how the motion goes. So if you're making a motion to approve, subject to having them
bring back the issue on the doors and have that. Now, here's the question. Are you asking them to bring that back for informational purposes, or are you asking them to bring
that back for your approval approval? So then your motion would be to move to approve everything except that you want the doors to be brought back to
you with a change. Right? Right. And I'm only talking about the the roll up door on the roll up door. One door, one door. So
that the motion would need to be amended to have that okay. Terminology that someone will. Second. Okay. So repeat what you what your motion is. I
think I have to do a. I think we need a motion for an amendment. We need to vote on the amendment before we vote on the motion. Is that correct? Mr. Saltzman, if you want to follow Robert's rules, the
answer is yes. Yes. All right. I'll. Make a motion. No, keep your motion. I'm going to suggest an amendment to the motion that the applicant brings back an alternative for
the roll up door on Court Street. For our review and approval. Do we have a second on the amendment? Second, then you would vote first on the
amendment and then on the motion. So first, we're voting just on the amendment. Yes.
Correct. Okay. So again, yes would be that we're agreeing to having we're we're accepting
the design except for the back roll up door, and they're going to be bringing that back to us for approval. That's what we're voting on first. We're voting
on correct. Bringing back just the just the door issue, just the door, the amendment. Then you will vote. If assuming that's approved, then you'll vote on the whole, the whole
thing, right? Okay, everybody understand that? Okay, good. Let's vote. Miss produce. Yes.
Mr. Yes. Mr. Cadena. Yes. Miss. Kaplan. Yes. Chairperson. Rasinski. Yes. Now, you would
vote on the motion as amended. Okay. So, Chloe, do you want to tell us what we're voting on? Okay, so now you guys just you
voted for the amendment, which was to bring in the roll up door facing Court Street with alternative materials and providing the spec sheet. The
original motion had it to be approved, provided that the the historic marble name and date block shall be incorporated into the construction and archway shall also be
incorporated in the design of the new courtyard, and then the Certificate of appropriateness will expire in three years. I don't I don't believe the date
sign or the. I think I think they've already said that they're going to incorporate the block, but that wasn't part of the original. It wasn't part of her motion. But that's what they're saying they're going to do. I personally don't want an
archway. I don't I think that was not the right thing. Right. And that's Chloe that in your motion. Okay. You did or didn't you. You did not. No, no, I didn't say anything about it.
Right. Well, how's everybody else feel about those two issues? I'd like to go by what that original motion was to motion was to approve. Except
for the door for the roll up door. Right. Okay. There was nothing about archways or date blocks. I'm just stating what the original approval was from Miss Lanford, which was the
approval. And I understand that. But that wasn't part that wasn't the motion. Those were suggestions by Carolyn. Do you want the block in it? We amend it. I think it would be fun to
have that somewhere. Okay. I don't know that that has to be part of the motion. Well, yes you can. I mean, you could say somewhere, I don't want to tell them where to put it. If
they're having a display somewhere, maybe it'll maybe it could be incorporated into the. The courtyard somewhere. I will
amend the motion that the block be incorporated into the building, either in the front or the courtyard at their
discretion. And nothing about archways. We're not doing archways. Okay. Unless you want that to be part of your motion.
Do we have a second to the amended motion? I'll second it. Okay, so we have an amended motion of the original and the
one and the amendment that was previously voted. It can be voted all as one at this point, because the original was was the original motion was amended
and seconded. Correct. Any other way of doing it. And it had nothing to do with archways? No. All right. Just as discussed. Right. It was
discussed, that's all. Okay. So. What we're voting on is approval with the stipulation
of the roll up door coming back to us and incorporating the date block, for lack of a
better word, somewhere, somewhere. Okay, let's vote. Miss produce. Yes, Mr. pony. No.
Mr. Cadena. Yes. Miss Kaplan. Yes, miss. Chairperson. Mrozinski. Yes. Okay, so you understand what we just voted
on. Okay, great. Great presentation. Thank you so much. Carolyn. When can we have them back for the door? I mean, if
we're just looking at the door, if you can get me something very quickly, like within a few days, we could we could come
back in August. So we just. Approved. We have to. Do you have a conditional certificate of appropriateness that I will
send you to tomorrow? You know, I. Discussion outside this building. Yeah. I'm sorry. This
discussion you need to have outside of our board meeting. Absolutely. I'm a little I'm a little concerned about one thing I know we asked them to bring back the door and I understand that. But since we
didn't continue it to that issue to a date, certain they're going to have to re-advertise that issue. Is that right? No, no. Okay. I mean, I just want to I want that's different than rehearing
it. This is just a matter that based on your motion, you said to bring back you didn't say when. So we don't have to re-advertise that issue. Okay. I just want to make sure that they're not hampered by that
time frame. They can whenever they can get it in and get it on the agenda, then it can be heard. Okay. Got it. Okay. I'll need to discuss this outside the purview of our meeting. All
right. Let's move on. Number six, board and staff comments, staff. Any more comments about anything tonight? No, I do not. Okay. What about the board? Yes.
I want to make a comment, please. I was away on Sunday. I was inundated with five phone calls. I want people to know
who are watching this. I don't discuss anything with the commissioners. I don't discuss anything that's coming up with the chairman. If I have
information, I can call the attorney or go to planning and zoning, and I will not tell people how I'm going to vote on an issue. And I didn't like
being accused of that because while I was mayor, commissioner and on boards and the city, never have I ever violated the
law. And I will not do it. So people do not have to call me and ask Mrs. Protas how she's going to vote, or what does she think of the plans of the city?
It's wrong to do that to individuals who sit on this board. We volunteer to get the best for our community that we
can. And I'd like to know, Mr. Chairman, to the fall or something. We need to have a work session. Signs that come
in the historic district. They need us to be a certain design, not modern people who want to build carports or garages have to realize you can't put up
four poles and put a tarpaulin over it or something, and we have to I went through. A community over the weekend,
small town, and they have really worked hard on their historic preservation. The sign sign that says we are a historic preservation community
and we live and work behind it. People need to realize when you're buying a historic district in as large as it is, you're going to have to abide by the rules. And I know the
Planning and Zoning board has a lot of work to do, but I think we need to revise a lot of the rules that we have and add some to support to preserve our
community and keep. We have talked about when when this when we're not as busy with this committee with
applications, we did talk about having some sort of work group, and we'll still do that for sure. To be very hard because we're losing little by little
and you can't get it back. And I trust our attorney to tell us whether it's legal or not. So you can have a workshop we'll work on, on preparing a date.
Okay. Absolutely. Sometime in the fall. Yeah. I mean, if there it would be nice if we actually had we could just do it on your meeting night. And if we don't have anything else
on the agenda, or if it's something really quick to let us look at that too. And we should all we should give suggestions from everybody and the public how they feel
preservation. You know, some of them I know we won't even have to discuss because it'll be ridiculous, but we're we're just losing too much in tarpon.
Mr. Chairman. Yes, Miss Lanford, I struggle not just this meeting, but other meetings in finding the materials called out. It's sometimes it's such
small font. It's really hard to find that I've gone and printed, you know, 11 by 17 copies. So you just encourage the applicants to, you know, make it as clear as they can, like
us. Like the sign until late this afternoon, I didn't see that that sign was an aluminum box. I mean, and it was there. I will say the data was there, but it was really hard to find.
So whatever you can do to encourage the applicants to, you know, put their best foot forward and make it really clear what they're proposing. I mean, the boils aluminum, I figured out by the name that it
was an aluminum carport, but it was a little tricky on the sign to figure it out. Some of the ones on the registry was a little tricky to figure out because the font was so, so small. They called them out,
but it was really tricky to to match up the number to where it is on the building. So I know you, you don't get always perfect applications, but please encourage the applicants. It's, it's, it's in their best
interest to call out their materials. Clearly what kind of materials using on every part of the application. So whatever you can do to encourage them, you can tell them that the
board said so. I hate to I'm not trying to put you on the spot because I know you get you get what you get, but I get what I get and I, I, I share your concerns. And I think at
some point, if, if an application is incomplete, it's not fair to us and it's not fair to the general public to, you know, you've got cases sitting behind it. You've we had we've had a case where the application was completely
incomplete, like the very first case we had today. She brings in a new application tonight. So I mean, we did the right thing on that. We continued it. And she can bring in whatever
new projects she wants for the silence. So please don't take it as it's not a criticism of the staff, it's just impress upon the applicants that your board is looking for the all
the details and the materials for us to make an intelligent decision. Okay. Thank you. I
just wanted to say something real quick to maybe it's more about my style of chairing. Not
everybody knows Robert's rules. I get mixed up myself sometimes, but what I'd like to think is
that we are here. First for the city and for the district. But I'd also like to think we're
here for the applicants. We want to treat them fairly. We want to give them every, every
chance that we can to comply. And anything we can do to help them to do that, I think, is a plus. I want everyone to
understand what we've done, how we've done it, why we've done it. I will sometimes go off.
And let somebody talk, even though we've already decided the case. I felt it was important to make sure that I
understood what we did here. I think it was fair to them. Okay, so I don't always do everything exactly to Robert's rules, but
I'd like to think that I, for the most part, do. And I just wanted to mention that that that's just sort of my style. And I'm going to mention to you when, when I think from a legal
standpoint, you're going, they're going too far afield. It's not you all. Yeah. But I allow certain comments, but I allowed it. Right, right. Okay. So and I'll just I'll interrupt
as I would with the Board of commission if I think something because remember, they could come back before you. Right. And so we we want to allow them to, you know, we don't want to
do anything that they would say, oh, you've already made a decision. Anything else I'm going to bring back before you? I would like to be careful on that. Sure. But I'd like people if we've denied someone, I, I
don't want it to be completely negative. I want to try to keep it a little more positive and let them know that they have that they can still come back
to us. Things that come before you that you're just going to say, yeah, that's never going to happen. I mean, I think that's fair to sure, because you don't want somebody to have to keep applying and they're
Never going to. It's not going to happen. Well, I think what happened on that particular one, and I think what you did was perfectly fine, Mr. Chairman. I probably shouldn't have jumped in, and I apologize for that. I
think those two applicants, the husband and wife owners, they didn't get a chance to speak at the microphone for whatever reason. And so they wanted to vent a little. And, you know, I understand, I mean, I get it. I
think we were trying to help them, tell them what they needed to do to fix it, but I don't think they were. I don't think they heard at all. But that's, you know, they, you know, Miss Lanford can talk to
them when they come back and they have something else she can, you know, be pretty clear. I think we were all pretty clear as a board what we thought were the problems. And and they can come back with a
new application that addresses those. So we'd be open to, you know, a new application. Okay. I'm sorry, Mr. Lanford, besides the one case that we continue
tonight for the sign, do you are there other applications for August? I'm trying to plan a few days out of town. Yes, we do have other applications for August. At least one. I think
we may have two already. Two plus the one that we continue to sign that we continued. Yes, I think so. Okay. Thank you. Okay, okay. Any other comments
by the board here or Carolyn? No. Okay. It is 832. We are
adjourned. Thank you. Chloe. And thank you, everyone.