WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=f1lh9pVELgo

Part: 1

1
00:04:18.691 --> 00:04:57.863
Yeah. I don't know how much. We're hoping one day to get the

2
00:04:57.863 --> 00:05:18.818
fox. It seems like every month it's a minute slower.

3
00:07:40.359 --> 00:07:48.701
30. I'm going to call the meeting to order. Thank you all for being here. Chloe. Roll call please.

4
00:07:48.701 --> 00:08:02.081
Mr. Burzynski. Chairperson. Burzynski here, a little fuzzy. I couldn't hear you. Miss Howard is absent. Miss Kaplan,

5
00:08:02.081 --> 00:08:13.159
Mr. Cadena present. Miss Trapani, miss produce. Thank you. Are there any public

6
00:08:13.159 --> 00:08:24.670
comments that are not related to anything on the agenda? Okay, we'll move on. Quasi judicial announcement and swearing in of

7
00:08:24.670 --> 00:08:35.481
speakers. This is a quasi judicial proceeding where the board acts in a quasi judicial rather than a legislative capacity at a quasi judicial hearing. It is not the board's

8
00:08:35.481 --> 00:08:46.692
function to make law, but rather to apply law that has already been established in a quasi judicial hearing. The board is required by law to make findings of fact, based upon the evidence presented at

9
00:08:46.692 --> 00:08:57.737
the hearing, and apply those findings of fact to previously established criteria contained in the Code of Ordinances. In order to make a legal decision regarding the application

10
00:08:57.737 --> 00:09:09.649
before it, the board may only consider evidence at this hearing that the law considers competent, substantial and relevant to the issues. If the competent, substantial and relevant evidence at the

11
00:09:09.649 --> 00:09:20.426
hearing demonstrates that the applicant has met the criteria established in the Code of Ordinances, and the board is required by law to find in favor of the applicant. By the same token, if the competent,

12
00:09:20.426 --> 00:09:30.669
substantial and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant has failed to meet the criteria established in the Code of Ordinances, then the board is required by law to find against

13
00:09:30.669 --> 00:09:40.246
the applicant board members any ex parte communication to disclose any conflicts of interest. If you're going to

14
00:09:40.246 --> 00:09:53.592
speak, please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm your testimony before the Heritage Preservation Board

15
00:09:53.592 --> 00:10:05.805
will be the truth, so help you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Applications number 26.39.

16
00:10:05.805 --> 00:10:17.049
Pulaski Certificate of Appropriateness for monument sign at 427 East Tarpon Avenue. Carolyn. Good evening. Caroline

17
00:10:17.049 --> 00:10:28.561
Lanford, principal planner with the City of Tarpon Springs. This is application 2639. This first slide shows the location and land use context of the

18
00:10:28.561 --> 00:10:40.906
subject property at 427 East Tarpon Avenue. In our Special Area plan adjacent to an existing residential district. This slide shows the location

19
00:10:40.906 --> 00:10:51.183
of the subject property within the National Register and local historic districts. This is just the basic property information for the subject

20
00:10:51.183 --> 00:11:02.795
property, which is a circa 1910 craftsman style building. It was originally a residence and is currently being used as a B&B. While there have been some

21
00:11:02.795 --> 00:11:14.240
slight alterations to the property, it maintains architectural details and its overall historic massing enough to be a contributing property within both the National

22
00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:23.916
Register and local historic districts, and the applicant is seeking a certificate of appropriateness to construct a monument sign. This shows the

23
00:11:23.916 --> 00:11:36.829
subject property on the 1919 Sanborn map. This is the picture of the subject property from the Florida Master Site. File a picture of the property

24
00:11:36.829 --> 00:11:48.040
from Tarpon Avenue looking north. Just some more photos of the property showing some

25
00:11:48.040 --> 00:11:59.218
context. Going east on Tarpon Avenue. And then some context looking west. And this is the approximate location of the

26
00:11:59.218 --> 00:12:11.463
proposed monument sign. This is from the applicant showing the location of the proposed monument sign. Outside of the

27
00:12:11.463 --> 00:12:21.640
required visibility triangles and the ten foot minimum setback requirement. This is a drawing of the proposed sign

28
00:12:21.640 --> 00:12:34.986
from the applicant. It would be 64in wide by 84in high, which equals 37.3ft■!S. This is a picture from the applicant

29
00:12:34.986 --> 00:12:47.099
showing the approximate location of the sign. The relevant standard for review are new construction consistency. The height and

30
00:12:47.099 --> 00:12:57.843
width of the proposed sign is consistent with adjacent contributing signs. Adjacent contributing structures with respect to criteria. Criterion

31
00:12:57.843 --> 00:13:08.020
three neighborhood and district context. The proposed sign would slightly alter the historic streetscape and change the relationship between open

32
00:13:08.020 --> 00:13:19.131
space and the street. However, the proposed sign conforms to standards and again is similar to signs at other contributing properties within the neighborhood and the historic

33
00:13:19.131 --> 00:13:31.777
district. With respect to adherence to the Secretary's guidelines, the relevant standard is that related new

34
00:13:31.777 --> 00:13:43.255
construction will be undertaken in such a manner that, if removed in the future, there will be no loss of integrity to the historic property. I believe it meets that criterion.

35
00:13:43.255 --> 00:13:51.930
And then with respect to conformance with city of other city codes, it is in conformance with other city codes, and I'm just going to go

36
00:13:51.930 --> 00:14:04.109
through that kind of quickly. So the relevant standard is 89 freestanding signs. The maximum sign height is ten feet within

37
00:14:04.109 --> 00:14:13.886
the Historic Preservation district. It needs to be outside of the required visibility triangles ten feet from the adjoining street.

38
00:14:13.886 --> 00:14:24.964
Right of way line, 15ft from the side property line. With respect to the size of the sign. The maximum allowance for this

39
00:14:24.964 --> 00:14:34.006
property would be 45 total square feet. That's based on one foot per lineal foot of

40
00:14:34.006 --> 00:14:50.622
building frontage. And then the guidelines don't don't really talk a whole lot about new signs, but it's important that

41
00:14:50.622 --> 00:15:02.868
new signs would not obscure or hide significant historic features or details. And that's really the relevant guideline from the Design Review Guidelines manual. So staff is

42
00:15:02.868 --> 00:15:13.312
recommending approval of the project with condition that the certificate of appropriateness would expire in three years. If a building permit has not been issued for the project. And with that, I'll enter my staff

43
00:15:13.312 --> 00:15:24.089
report and presentation into the record and answer any questions you might have. Anybody have any questions for Carolyn? Cindy, miss Blanford, just a couple of clarifications.

44
00:15:24.089 --> 00:15:36.701
So the size of the sign is permitted under the city's code? Yes. Okay. So we don't need a variance or anything for the size. No. Second question is I

45
00:15:36.701 --> 00:15:47.379
saw that this a ten foot setback from the right of way. So that would be from the right of way along Tarpon Avenue. But the location in this, the one exhibit, I guess from the

46
00:15:47.379 --> 00:15:57.623
applicant that shows has a picture of the inn and then has a white outline of the building or the sign. Yes. So that's ten.

47
00:15:57.623 --> 00:16:07.966
That's that's an approximate picture. It shows on the plans. This little blue line is the ten foot minimum setback. And this green line here is showing

48
00:16:07.966 --> 00:16:18.943
their proposed location of the sign. So it's in that circle or not. Yes. So the proposed location is within this circle according to their plans. Okay. My last question I think for

49
00:16:18.943 --> 00:16:30.756
now is there's a sign there today on the east side of the driveway. What's going to happen to that sign? I think that would be a question for the applicant. But if it would

50
00:16:30.756 --> 00:16:41.533
exceed the maximum signage allowance. So yes, they would need to pick between one or the other. They don't they're not allowed to have two signs. They could if the if if there were

51
00:16:41.533 --> 00:16:51.076
if they didn't exceed their maximum allowance. But I think in if I'm recalling correctly the existing sign, I mean, they're getting pretty close at

52
00:16:51.076 --> 00:17:05.690
it at 37. 37.3 and 45 is the maximum area allowance. So if they took the 45ft■!S and dividd it onto two different signs, if

53
00:17:05.690 --> 00:17:17.869
they got if they wanted to and got approval for it. Thank you. I have a question. Will you have the red circle on the one picture is it going to have are

54
00:17:17.869 --> 00:17:29.748
they going to have to do away with that palm tree that is not indicated in anything here shows where it is on the other side of the palm tree. Are they

55
00:17:29.748 --> 00:17:41.927
going to have to take palm tree down? I think that would be a question for the applicant. But looking at the plans they provided, I don't think that would be necessary. Could the

56
00:17:41.927 --> 00:17:53.839
sign not fit on the other side of the parking lot where the little sign is now, or does it obscure anything if they I think where the existing sign is, that would be in the

57
00:17:53.839 --> 00:18:01.913
required visibility triangle, which with the size sign they have now is okay, but the size that they're looking for proposing to put in that would

58
00:18:01.913 --> 00:18:16.094
be obscuring in the visibility triangle. Any other questions? I just have one. Carolyn. I see

59
00:18:16.094 --> 00:18:28.807
that there are three concepts in our paperwork here. Do we know which one that we're using? That would again be a question for the applicant. I went with

60
00:18:28.807 --> 00:18:40.652
concept one as as provided, but we really can't regulate the look or the content of the sign. The only thing that we're regulating is the the placement

61
00:18:40.652 --> 00:18:53.599
and the size. So it's somewhat immaterial what design they're going for, as long as it meets the requirements of the code in terms of placement and size.

62
00:18:53.599 --> 00:19:05.276
Okay. I do think the design guidelines speaks to materials. It talks about a monument sign being the there's a couple things in there, one about a monument sign being made of masonry or stucco. And the

63
00:19:05.276 --> 00:19:16.922
other thing, it talks about a sign reflecting the architecture of the particular building. So we do have design review. We can't, can't, cannot tell them what they put on the sign. That's a First Amendment

64
00:19:16.922 --> 00:19:27.799
issue. If I'm correct, I'm sure Mr. Salzman will come along. So we're not content neutral. Right. Put on it. We're regulating or approving or denying the size, the placement

65
00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:38.610
and the materials used. In this case, the materials being used are aluminum, which is not a historic material. Mr. Brady, you have found something in the

66
00:19:38.610 --> 00:19:49.788
design Review guidelines manual that I did not find. So. Okay. Well, Mr. Pony, if you could please turn on your mic. Sorry.

67
00:19:49.788 --> 00:20:01.800
Please turn on your mic. There we go. Is that better? Is that better? Thank you. I thought

68
00:20:01.800 --> 00:20:14.546
there was a reference. There is a statement that monument signs must have a solid base that is complementary to the streetscape. And the base

69
00:20:14.546 --> 00:20:25.791
should be masonry or stucco. That is that is the statement that is made in the Design Review Guidelines manual. And what are they planning to make their sign out of? I think it

70
00:20:25.791 --> 00:20:35.834
probably these are better questions for the applicant.

71
00:20:35.834 --> 00:20:49.147
Any other questions for Carolyn? Okay. If not applicant presentation, please your name and address. Melissa Pulaski.

72
00:20:49.147 --> 00:21:02.027
And my address is 14909 First Street, East, Madeira Beach, Florida, 33708. I do have a

73
00:21:02.027 --> 00:21:13.704
picture of the design that we did submit. I know you had a question about it. It's the round one. The round one, the

74
00:21:13.704 --> 00:21:23.014
one that was the concept number one was that you have three concepts. I'm not sure how they were labeled when they were in the portal. I didn't see it on

75
00:21:23.014 --> 00:21:36.895
the screen. It's the last, I believe it's the last or next last page. I would think it would be the last one that was submitted, because we went back

76
00:21:36.895 --> 00:21:48.806
and forth with changes. No, you just scroll up. That's the three that he's talking about right there. There's the third one and there's two more above it. Yeah. No, the one that we submitted most recently was the

77
00:21:48.806 --> 00:21:59.951
circle one. The circle one. Yep. And I don't see it on there. What do you mean by the circle one. The circle design that I'm holding in my hand. I don't see

78
00:21:59.951 --> 00:22:14.499
it in that packet. Can you. Absolutely. Just that the board.

79
00:22:14.499 --> 00:22:31.950
So nothing has changed with the size or the materials. Well

80
00:22:31.950 --> 00:22:41.860
this is not in our packet. It wasn't in my pocket. That's not mine. The one that was in my packet is a rectangular sign.

81
00:22:41.860 --> 00:22:55.240
It's a rectangular monument sign. This doesn't I, I mean, we don't know how. I can't tell how tall this is. I can't tell the materials. I can't tell anything about it. So I have

82
00:22:55.240 --> 00:23:04.216
the quote with me. It's the same size. I said the only the design changed exact same size and the exact same materials.

83
00:23:04.216 --> 00:23:20.432
So how tall is it? One second. It is overall height. Size seven feet 84. Overall height

84
00:23:20.432 --> 00:23:32.377
5-1111-5. So 71.5 overall width. I have the quote with me as well. Well that's I mean that's fine but that's not what we have in our packet. That's not what we're asked to review tonight. Okay then I apologize.

85
00:23:32.377 --> 00:23:42.020
My assistant must have messed up. So I guess we're going to have to get on the next agenda. I think it'd be kind of difficult for us to review something that. Absolutely. No, I understand I'm agreeing with

86
00:23:42.020 --> 00:23:56.401
you. I think you might want to hear some comments before you know for sure. Yeah. Can you

87
00:23:56.401 --> 00:24:07.312
show her the one that was in our pocket? That's the rectangular one. Oh, you've got it up on the screen. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So we really don't know what the

88
00:24:07.312 --> 00:24:18.556
square footage is of this new one, do we. We don't know. It's I assumed that this was the final design because this one had the appropriate information

89
00:24:18.556 --> 00:24:29.834
that I had asked for. Yes. From Danielle. I'm texting her right now. Caroline. I mean, I understand, Caroline, that this

90
00:24:29.834 --> 00:24:41.179
group really doesn't have anything to do with the design, but we do with size and setbacks. And I think the setback item is fine. But with

91
00:24:41.179 --> 00:24:53.258
the new design here, we have no idea what the dimensions are, what the square footage. We don't know if it fits. I would think that this board does have some purview over things like

92
00:24:53.258 --> 00:25:04.002
design and materials, some purview over that, but the most relevant things are the size and the placement. And if we don't have the dimensions of that, we don't have the answer

93
00:25:04.002 --> 00:25:14.145
to the most relevant. We don't. We know placement, but we don't know size. I mean, it's, it's considerably different than what's in our packet. Yes.

94
00:25:14.145 --> 00:25:25.323
Considerably. There's a lot of open space, which I'm guessing will cut down on the square inches or square feet. So it

95
00:25:25.323 --> 00:25:37.902
may fall into that category where they could have two signs. We don't know. We don't know.

96
00:25:37.902 --> 00:25:48.279
Not to interrupt because it's not going to change anything. But we are removing the second sign. Yeah. I'm sorry. You said you are we are okay. It's up against the other business sign

97
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:59.024
that says massages and nails and so you can't see it whatsoever. So people that have even lived in tarpon are like, oh, we didn't even know you were here. So that sign doesn't

98
00:25:59.024 --> 00:26:10.001
serve any purpose. So it's going to come down. I mean, I actually kind of like the oval nature of that sign better than the sign you presented. Thank

99
00:26:10.001 --> 00:26:20.578
you. I would like it even better if you cut off those poles and placed it on the ground like a monument sign and make it shorter. The poles, the two poles that extend from the

100
00:26:20.578 --> 00:26:31.189
bottom of the sign on the new one that you're showing us tonight. So I think the issue with that was visibility, because we don't want to cut down the palm tree. There's a palm tree right there. So we're

101
00:26:31.189 --> 00:26:41.866
trying to rise it up. So when people drive by, but I can ask the sign people if there's a way that we can do that. We're concerned about visibility. I think. Yeah, the issue is the way we're looking at visibility

102
00:26:41.866 --> 00:26:51.843
in a historic district is for pedestrians. And this sign is geared towards cars. So and I recognize that signs are an identifier. I get that, but we all go somewhere we haven't

103
00:26:51.843 --> 00:27:03.221
been before. And what do we do. We Google map it until we get there. And then really what you just need most places just need is a sign that goes, yep, you're in the right place. Here's the Blue Bayou Inn. And

104
00:27:03.221 --> 00:27:14.098
you turn in before you. And I think the new placement of it, I think is better than your old placement, because people are going to see it and then they'll have time to, to turn in. But I think a seven eight

105
00:27:14.098 --> 00:27:25.844
foot sign is out of scale with what else is along Tarpon Avenue in the historic district. So like I said, if you, you know, dropped it down to like a five foot sign overall, but I,

106
00:27:25.844 --> 00:27:35.553
I, I personally like the oval shape a little better. I think it's a little more interesting. And then my last comment is the materials need to reflect the building. And it's not an

107
00:27:35.553 --> 00:27:46.364
aluminum building. And aluminum is not a historic material. So, you know, you've got a, a block stucco building. So if you made

108
00:27:46.364 --> 00:27:56.441
those columns out of stucco, you know, I think that would go a long ways towards improving it too. I know the sign box itself. By that, I mean the

109
00:27:56.441 --> 00:28:08.386
oval is going to be made out of probably not wood. I mean would, would be ideal. But you know, I know in Florida, but I think if you added, you know, made those columns that are supporting the

110
00:28:08.386 --> 00:28:19.898
sign in the same material as the the inn, I think that would be a great deal to tie the building into the sign, which is the goal of the signs. The other option, and I just saw

111
00:28:19.898 --> 00:28:31.442
this today because I was driving around, if you wanted a taller sign, if you look at the sign at hours restaurant, it's a little further west and the brewery that's right next to it,

112
00:28:31.442 --> 00:28:43.254
they both have a pole sign and they have a sign at the top of the pole. So that would get you the height. But it's a decorative pole. It's I mean, it looks very historic. It looks very authentic. So if

113
00:28:43.254 --> 00:28:55.332
that's if the visibility is an issue, that might be another way to skin the cat. Okay. Perfect. Right across the road. Okay. Thank you. Does somebody

114
00:28:55.332 --> 00:29:06.744
want to make a motion to continue to the next meeting? I'll move to continue the application. I guess I'm before I make the motion, I'm a little concerned about the, the timing

115
00:29:06.744 --> 00:29:19.224
of this. If we I understand if we make a if we continue to a date certain. It doesn't need new advertising, but I want to be mindful of the staff's ability to review a new application or a new sign. So

116
00:29:19.224 --> 00:29:30.702
should you want it to be to the next available agenda. And if that happens and it does need new advertising. So I'm looking for your comments, Miss Lanford, about that with something as simple as a sign, if they can

117
00:29:30.702 --> 00:29:40.879
quickly get me the dimensions of the proposed and materials of the proposed design, like within the next two days or so, that would be fine. We can do a date. Certain. Okay, so I'll

118
00:29:40.879 --> 00:29:50.855
make a motion to continue the case to our August agenda and to allow the applicant to resubmit a new sign design that.

119
00:29:50.855 --> 00:30:01.366
With some points of discussion I want to make. I didn't get to tell you fast enough. I think we need to look at our signs for historic districts to be

120
00:30:01.366 --> 00:30:11.575
historic looking new modern signs do not fit on Tarpon Avenue and in the fruit section area or the whole area. That is

121
00:30:11.575 --> 00:30:23.254
the historic in tarpon. I don't want I don't care for aluminum signs. They're too modern for our community. And I think that the sign company could help the

122
00:30:23.254 --> 00:30:34.499
applicant with a more historic type sign and how to put it up. And I think we need to work on that. You all do a tremendous job in the building department,

123
00:30:34.499 --> 00:30:44.108
but that's something we've got to look at as new development comes in. And that's why I will not support this tonight. I was

124
00:30:44.108 --> 00:30:55.219
surprised to see that one. Okay. We we have a motion. Yeah. But you didn't ask me if I wanted to say well, you don't have. Yeah. We don't want to go past. That's what you're going to how

125
00:30:55.219 --> 00:31:06.630
you're going to vote. Okay. I think I need if I might amend my motion, I believe Mr. Saltzman is going to advise me that we need to have a date certain. So the meeting, I believe, is August 3rd. Is that

126
00:31:06.630 --> 00:31:17.675
correct? So the motion would be to continue the case to the August 3rd meeting. Would you accept that? Yes. Okay. And you're good with that. Okay. All right. Any any more

127
00:31:17.675 --> 00:31:27.352
discussion on the motion. Is everyone understand it. Okay.

128
00:31:27.352 --> 00:31:43.634
Let's let's vote. Miss. Yes. Mr. Bonnie. Yes. Mr. Cadena. Yes. Miss. Kaplan. Yes.

129
00:31:43.634 --> 00:31:55.880
Chairperson. Burzynski. Yes. Okay. So you understand what? Yes, absolutely. Get her things within two days. And then the next meeting is August 3rd. And then I took notes of everything

130
00:31:55.880 --> 00:32:06.958
you guys said. Perfect, perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you.

131
00:32:06.958 --> 00:32:19.170
All right. Number 26.55 boil certificate of appropriateness to construct a new carport at

132
00:32:19.170 --> 00:32:30.681
330 Pineapple Street. Carolyn. This first slide shows the the location and land use context within a residential district

133
00:32:30.681 --> 00:32:44.395
in the fruit salad neighborhood. This slide is showing the location of the subject property at the edge of the local historic district, the southern edge. This slide is

134
00:32:44.395 --> 00:32:54.805
giving you the information about the property. It is a masonry vernacular. It is considered Noncontributing and Non-historic. The property

135
00:32:54.805 --> 00:33:06.384
Appraiser's website has it listed as constructed circa 1925. However, it's not extant on the 1926 Sanborn map. There is no Florida Master site file

136
00:33:06.384 --> 00:33:16.761
associated with the property. It is historic. You can. You can tell from from the few remaining architectural elements. But the architectural integrity of the structure has been degraded to the point

137
00:33:16.761 --> 00:33:27.972
where it is considered Noncontributing and non-historic. And the applicant is seeking a certificate of appropriateness to construct a 20 foot by 18 foot carport on

138
00:33:27.972 --> 00:33:39.517
the Pineapple Street frontage of the subject property. These are plans provided by the applicant for the proposed project, showing a two foot

139
00:33:39.517 --> 00:33:49.861
setback from the right of way. This slide shows the facade of the subject property facing Pineapple Street. This is the

140
00:33:49.861 --> 00:34:00.071
proposed area of construction. This is giving a northwest view of the subject property. Some context of Pineapple Street

141
00:34:00.071 --> 00:34:11.816
looking north and to the west, I mean to the south. The relevant standards of review related to this case are new

142
00:34:11.816 --> 00:34:22.226
construction, consistency, and the proposed carport is consistent with respect to height and width of other carports located throughout the

143
00:34:22.226 --> 00:34:33.104
local historic district. With respect to the neighborhood and district context, the proposed carport could be viewed as

144
00:34:33.104 --> 00:34:43.548
adversely altering the historic streetscape by changing the relationship between the open space and the street. The proposed carport does not

145
00:34:43.548 --> 00:34:55.793
conform with district standards. Primarily, the applicant is proposing a two foot setback from the property line. And

146
00:34:55.793 --> 00:35:07.004
we'll go into the conformance with other city code requirements. So when it comes to carports, we can look at it sometimes as an accessory accessory structure. When it's

147
00:35:07.004 --> 00:35:16.948
located behind the established front, setback of the primary structure. But the square footage that they are looking at for this carport, we need to

148
00:35:16.948 --> 00:35:27.458
treat it like a detached garage. And within their zoning district, which is the 60 that requires a 25 foot front

149
00:35:27.458 --> 00:35:41.172
setback for a detached garage. With respect to our design review guidelines, manual accessory structures should be located in the rear yard or the

150
00:35:41.172 --> 00:35:52.650
side yard, or the side yard that is closest to the rear yard. And in those cases where we do allow structures along the public right of way or

151
00:35:52.650 --> 00:36:04.195
within the public view, they should be designed in the same architectural style as the principal building, and the new garage should be compatible with the primary building in

152
00:36:04.195 --> 00:36:16.440
terms of scale, massing and style, and compatible with the street and alley environments of the historic district. You know, we we like to propose

153
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:26.517
things that are in keeping with the historic style of the primary structure. So for those reasons, staff is recommending denial of the application as it

154
00:36:26.517 --> 00:36:39.096
has been presented. If the PB approves the project, I would recommend that the condition that the certificate of appropriateness would expire in three years. If a building permit has not been issued, and

155
00:36:39.096 --> 00:36:47.838
with that, I will enter my staff report and presentation into the record and answer any questions you might have. Okay. Thank you. Any questions for

156
00:36:47.838 --> 00:36:59.317
Carolyn? Yes, Anita. Go ahead. I call on you. Thank you. I couldn't understand why he said what was the denial? So I am

157
00:36:59.317 --> 00:37:09.727
recommending denial of the proposed carport because it does not conform with city standards. Also, if they're proposing an aluminum

158
00:37:09.727 --> 00:37:22.439
freestanding carport with a 1925 era masonry vernacular home. But it's not going to be

159
00:37:22.439 --> 00:37:33.517
two story. I want to know, ma'am, because that I was asked that question and I told the person that I said, I, I really don't know. The height and width that they're proposing is,

160
00:37:33.517 --> 00:37:45.061
is not it's fairly consistent with other carports that are found throughout the district. It's really the style and the location so close to the Pineapple Street frontage, but

161
00:37:45.061 --> 00:37:56.173
it is going to be aluminum. Yes, ma'am. That's what I believe is proposed. That probably better answered by the applicant. Okay.

162
00:37:56.173 --> 00:38:09.553
Miss Langford, so the proposed setback from pineapple is about two feet, is that correct? Yes, ma'am. That's the required setback is 25ft. Yes. So if

163
00:38:09.553 --> 00:38:21.031
they moved it to the 25 foot mark, that still wouldn't be behind the front facade of the house. Would it have to go further, whatever direction that is west to be behind the front facade of the house, it

164
00:38:21.031 --> 00:38:28.606
looks like the front setback is 30 something feet. Well, it's really hard to tell on this. It's hard to tell from the

165
00:38:28.606 --> 00:38:42.286
plans provided. But if we go to the relevant code section, it does just say in terms of the

166
00:38:42.286 --> 00:38:54.165
code, it says that it needs to be 25ft in terms of the historic district guidelines, we would prefer. That is a recommendation that it be past

167
00:38:54.165 --> 00:39:06.677
the the primary structure. In other words, behind the front facade of the house. Yes. Okay. So in this case, that would be further to the west. Yes. Okay.

168
00:39:06.677 --> 00:39:19.156
All right. Thank you. I'd like to note, is aluminum is it allowed in flood areas? Yes, I

169
00:39:19.156 --> 00:39:30.868
believe so. Does flood down. It would oxidize but it wouldn't rust. I mean it would it wouldn't fall apart. Are you are you concerned about like

170
00:39:30.868 --> 00:39:39.109
hurricane stability or wind stability or rusting, rusting wind and hurricane and just actual flooding down that

171
00:39:39.109 --> 00:39:52.456
street, which just happened? Yeah, it just happened. And if it had to be replaced, they would have to come back again. If it was aluminum instead of a

172
00:39:52.456 --> 00:40:04.802
structure like the house. I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman. Maybe. Mr. Chairman. Yes, I want to clarify in this in my head, Miss Langford. So at this

173
00:40:04.802 --> 00:40:16.247
location that's proposed on the plans, they would need a variance to put it at the two foot mark. Yes they would if this board approved that, they would need to seek a variance. Okay. Thank you. How many

174
00:40:16.247 --> 00:40:27.791
structures can you have on a lot that size? There's a house, there's a pool. There's another place in the back. That's really a question that that is locationally based property by

175
00:40:27.791 --> 00:40:38.168
property. There's there's maximum depending on, you know, what we're talking here. If we're talking a potting shed, if we're talking a detached garage, it kind of varies. It's

176
00:40:38.168 --> 00:40:50.414
beautiful there. Let's say that would. Carolyn, would you have treated this any differently if it was a pergola or a gazebo or something? Do we still fall

177
00:40:50.414 --> 00:41:00.858
under the same setbacks? No, I would still be recommending denial simply because of the non conformance with code and the impact to the historic

178
00:41:00.858 --> 00:41:12.736
streetscape. Okay. Thank you, thank you. All right. Is there anything that you would. Recommend or a way that this

179
00:41:12.736 --> 00:41:23.247
would be able to be allowed? What would, in your opinion, in my opinion, I really, truly feel I believe they have alley

180
00:41:23.247 --> 00:41:36.160
access. You know, putting a carport off of the alley would be more appropriate. Moving it behind the fence would be more

181
00:41:36.160 --> 00:41:44.401
appropriate. I can't see it's really about the location there that seems to to not really conform with our historic

182
00:41:44.401 --> 00:41:55.512
district. Okay. All right. Any other questions for Carolyn? Okay. If not, is the applicant

183
00:41:55.512 --> 00:42:10.394
here? And you can state your name and your address as you speak. Okay. My name is Craig

184
00:42:10.394 --> 00:42:17.201
boil with boils aluminum and screening here representing the homeowner, Mrs. Lauderdale. And

185
00:42:17.201 --> 00:42:33.717
also Danielle Sereda. I am here with boils aluminum. Okay. This

186
00:42:33.717 --> 00:42:46.697
is awesome. Okay. So the proposed structure, primary purpose of the structure for the homeowner is, you know, to

187
00:42:46.697 --> 00:42:57.874
protect from the trees above, you can see the, the driveway that's there. It's, it's been an existing driveway that's been in place for quite some time. And this is the primary

188
00:42:57.874 --> 00:43:09.753
parking area for the homeowner. The biggest issue has become, you know, the tree and keeping, you know, the vehicles clean and keeping the area clean and

189
00:43:09.753 --> 00:43:21.198
that debris off of the vehicles. So we were contacted by the homeowner to, to come out and provide an estimate for building the enclosure or excuse me, the carport

190
00:43:21.198 --> 00:43:33.043
structure out of aluminum. The primary reason for the aluminum. I know there was a couple questions regarding the aluminum. Majority of our structures are built out of

191
00:43:33.043 --> 00:43:45.389
aluminum, mostly because of the inability to rust. So that is one one primary, you know, function of the aluminum structure is that it does not have the ability to rust over

192
00:43:45.389 --> 00:43:56.467
time because of the salinity in the air. You can get an oxidation or corrosion that can happen to the aluminum, but it will never rust because it's aluminum. The other the other

193
00:43:56.467 --> 00:44:06.743
reason that we build out of aluminum is because every structure that we build, whether it's a carport, screen, enclosure, pool enclosure, they're, they're all built out

194
00:44:06.743 --> 00:44:17.087
of aluminum and they're engineered site specifically for that location. So when we send it off to our engineers for their approval before

195
00:44:17.087 --> 00:44:28.364
building anything, they are actually pulling up that that homeowners address, seeing how it lies within the wind zone code. And we have to build so that the engineer is satisfied

196
00:44:28.364 --> 00:44:39.710
that it's going to it's going to withstand a hurricane, you know, during, during that time of year. So that's primarily why we're building it out of out of aluminum. In this

197
00:44:39.710 --> 00:44:50.921
particular case, we generally build the carports a little higher, a little taller, excuse me, but a in this case, we actually lowered it a little

198
00:44:50.921 --> 00:45:02.499
bit from the homeowners request so that it was not as high up as we would normally do it, mostly to try and minimize the amount of, you know, hindrance

199
00:45:02.499 --> 00:45:13.677
to the public's view of the house and, and the appearance of, of everything. In addition to that, we, we did increase the size of the posts for the structure to a six by six

200
00:45:13.677 --> 00:45:24.321
aluminum post, which is larger than the required three by three post primarily for appearance. But it is also going to, to aid in the strength, you know, of the

201
00:45:24.321 --> 00:45:33.997
structure being able to withstand the storm. So the biggest issue. You know, being the the two foot setback is

202
00:45:33.997 --> 00:45:46.610
we're conforming to the existing drive and parking area that's there. So we're trying to, you know, set it back as far as we can, but still allow

203
00:45:46.610 --> 00:45:58.222
as you as you can see from that photo right there for the homeowner to take advantage of the protection from the tree and everything above. Let's see

204
00:45:58.222 --> 00:46:09.366
here the proposed work. It's a white structural panel roof, which is an insulated. Insulated aluminum panel roof

205
00:46:09.366 --> 00:46:20.911
over the the parking area. The use existing residential use remains entirely unchanged. As you had mentioned, the home is

206
00:46:20.911 --> 00:46:33.757
built in 1925 but is not part of the historic district. And as far as it being considered a garage, I disagree with that in

207
00:46:33.757 --> 00:46:45.402
the fact that it is all open sides. Generally, a garage is a completely enclosed, you know, structure where you're pulling the vehicle into. But I think

208
00:46:45.402 --> 00:46:55.912
it has to do with the the size, the square footage of it, the square footage was, was determined based upon the actual parking area itself, so

209
00:46:55.912 --> 00:47:06.957
that both vehicles can, can fit underneath that structure. And just going off of the existing parking area. Scroll through

210
00:47:06.957 --> 00:47:18.468
here. There's no new driveway that's being put in, no new parking area. Again, it was an existing parking area that

211
00:47:18.468 --> 00:47:30.981
exists now. So you can see this is just a 3D rendering that we do for all of our customers before we build, so that they can envision the project to

212
00:47:30.981 --> 00:47:41.158
make sure that we're all on the same page. As far as the the overall design, again, generally our, our carports are a little taller than this generally around. We're

213
00:47:41.158 --> 00:47:52.869
building one right now up in, in Pasco County. That's for a motor coach and that's 18 foot tall. So you know, they can get substantially large, you know, tall. But this this we actually

214
00:47:52.869 --> 00:48:03.714
did drop it down so that it stays within the conformity of the house. Protection of the historic character. No

215
00:48:03.714 --> 00:48:11.621
demolition, no historic fabric removed, windows untouched, doors untouched. So we're not doing anything to the

216
00:48:11.621 --> 00:48:26.370
surrounding, you know, home. Every element of the proposed carport has been selected to harmonize with the existing property conditions, rather than introducing new materials

217
00:48:26.370 --> 00:48:38.248
or forms in conflict with the historic setting, the design builds upon what already exists on the site existing white fencing. So the homeowner did

218
00:48:38.248 --> 00:48:48.725
choose a color to try and blend with the design of the home, as well as the fencing. We're preserving the tree, you know,

219
00:48:48.725 --> 00:48:59.536
instead of trying to remove a tree that's been there for quite a long time, we're trying to conform to that tree being

220
00:48:59.536 --> 00:49:11.815
there and just, you know, keep things clean and, and tidy. The streetscape impact carport sided and scaled to avoid dominating the public view.

221
00:49:11.815 --> 00:49:23.627
Again, we could have made it a little bit larger in the initial design stages. And as far as height of the structure, but we did intentionally try to

222
00:49:23.627 --> 00:49:32.269
bring it down to a reasonable, reasonable size existing driveway area, no expansion into the open yard or new

223
00:49:32.269 --> 00:49:43.113
pavement areas. Did you want to? Go? Yes, a little quicker. I'm going to hand it off to Danielle. Let her go down, down,

224
00:49:43.113 --> 00:49:55.491
down. Okay, okay. This is to address the visual impact from the street. The existing tree covers and filters. It softens the view from the street. If

225
00:49:55.491 --> 00:50:05.769
you look, the carport was going closer into the house. The fence is what is going to be on the property line with the tree going back. The carport is

226
00:50:05.769 --> 00:50:16.213
remaining a secondary structure parking area is staying in its current location. There's no change to the existing layout. These are photos within a one

227
00:50:16.213 --> 00:50:27.657
block area of the work location. Some of these are in the front. Some of them are in the back. Some of the ones in the front, as you can see, are aluminum, but they are not as

228
00:50:27.657 --> 00:50:34.164
esthetically cohesive as what we are proposing. And on his point is the closed garage.

229
00:50:34.164 --> 00:50:50.247
This is a completely open air space. My husband John and my sister in law Jackie, we live

230
00:50:50.247 --> 00:51:00.157
there, so I don't know if you have any questions for us specifically. I know one of the things that was addressed was the back alley. We do have a back alley, but there's no room

231
00:51:00.157 --> 00:51:11.635
there for any parking. There's a small guest house and a pool, so certainly that would have been an option if we could have taken on. But there's no we would have a bigger variance

232
00:51:11.635 --> 00:51:22.812
issue there than we would here, even if we could manage to find a space. So that was our reason for doing it this way. Okay,

233
00:51:22.812 --> 00:51:31.788
before we ask you any questions, are you finished with your presentation? I just did want to address one thing. We were already made aware of the variance, and we're already

234
00:51:31.788 --> 00:51:43.366
prepared to move forward with that as a condition. Okay. Any anything else before we ask any

235
00:51:43.366 --> 00:51:57.380
questions. Okay. Thank you. Stay where you are. Any any questions for the applicants? I apologize for me. I become a

236
00:51:57.380 --> 00:52:09.993
grandmother to kittens from the vet. So. So this is going to be one story and it's going to be open. It's not going to be

237
00:52:09.993 --> 00:52:22.271
aluminum legs like we have on the bayou now. And the legs are aluminum. It is the the post. Yeah. The entire structure is aluminum, including the post. Well, what I mean is, are the

238
00:52:22.271 --> 00:52:33.717
legs, are you going to encase it with wood or are you going to see aluminum. I we we can in case it in wood, that would be just an exterior trim that we could do afterward. My

239
00:52:33.717 --> 00:52:45.295
recommendation, if we were going to encase the post would would probably to, to use a, a faux wood, like a composite material so that it's not going to, you know, degrade over time

240
00:52:45.295 --> 00:52:55.839
and, and rot. That's the, the main issue with the wood is that, you know, especially if a flood were to take place again, the majority of that would have to be changed out. The roof

241
00:52:55.839 --> 00:53:08.251
will be. It's considered a mono slope roof. It's a very low slope roof system. So it's not a drastic slope, mostly because of the type of roof system that

242
00:53:08.251 --> 00:53:18.894
we're using. It's a newer it's called an insulated composite panel roof. So what it does is it's it's a foam polystyrene foam insulated with aluminum

243
00:53:18.894 --> 00:53:27.404
skin on the top and bottom, but you don't see any of that. It's actually encased the outer trim of it in a, in a decorative

244
00:53:27.404 --> 00:53:43.586
fascia trim. So. Okay. I guess I don't really have comments from the applicants. Okay, later, later. I don't have any

245
00:53:43.586 --> 00:53:54.030
questions for the applicant. Oh I'm sorry. Okay, I misunderstood. Anything else for the applicants. Okay.

246
00:53:54.030 --> 00:53:59.702
Anybody any public here have any comments? You're allowed to

247
00:53:59.702 --> 00:54:17.387
make a comment. Okay. Well, we need to we need to discuss this now. I, I have a lot of

248
00:54:17.387 --> 00:54:29.332
concerns about the application, mainly related to location and materials. I reviewed the information that we were sent today from the applicant, but that had the last page had a

249
00:54:29.332 --> 00:54:39.776
bunch of photos of different carports. And honestly, I drove down pineapple bath Shaddock lime lemon and I didn't see the

250
00:54:39.776 --> 00:54:50.653
only carport I. The only metal carport I saw was on the alley, which didn't bother me. It's on the alley. Nobody would see it. The other carports are the ones

251
00:54:50.653 --> 00:55:03.266
on pineapple are really attached to the building. You know, they're part of the building. They were built at the same time of the building. So, I mean, it was hard to see to identify where these examples were because there's

252
00:55:03.266 --> 00:55:14.844
no addresses given. But I sure didn't see any of these on the street that this site is located on. I think the location pulling it right out to the street, which is the front door of the street, the

253
00:55:14.844 --> 00:55:25.054
front door of the house, it's the main facade. It totally disrupts that whole streetscape. Not to mention they need a variance. I mean, there's a reason why accessory structures

254
00:55:25.054 --> 00:55:36.766
go in the side or the back of the yard. So I appreciate that they have a smallish site. They've got a lot of things on the site. If there's if the alley is not an option, like I,

255
00:55:36.766 --> 00:55:47.410
I did see they do have the alley. I drove the alley. Another option might be to attach a wooden. Carport to the

256
00:55:47.410 --> 00:55:57.487
north side of the building and have it tucked back in there, you know, adjacent to the if it was attached to the building somehow, not metal, I'm not going to. I don't think

257
00:55:57.487 --> 00:56:07.130
aluminum carport is appropriate. That's the only way I would consider it is if it was tucked up against the house in a wooden style with features from

258
00:56:07.130 --> 00:56:19.075
the house, you know, some way to, you know, make it see, show it as accessory, but not ruin the streetscape along pineapple because this will it's totally

259
00:56:19.075 --> 00:56:28.818
disruptive in my opinion. I mean, I appreciate everybody wants a carport. I understand that. I want a carport, I don't have one on my house and I know other people don't either. It's part of being a historic

260
00:56:28.818 --> 00:56:40.363
district. It's a challenge. And unfortunately, in your case, the alley would have been ideal. Except you have, you know, you have other things. You have the guest house and you have a pool. So. I don't know what I don't

261
00:56:40.363 --> 00:56:51.173
know. I really don't know what this little finger is, is on the north edge of the house. If that's just a walkway or something that you could take out and, and snug the carport, a wooden carport adjacent to

262
00:56:51.173 --> 00:56:57.247
the house, I would consider that, but I, I don't think this is meets the design guidelines.

263
00:56:57.247 --> 00:57:12.395
As Miss Lanford stated. Okay. Actually, I should have taken I should have asked for a motion before we started discussion.

264
00:57:12.395 --> 00:57:24.908
You're perfect. Pardon me. I think you're perfect. But let's. Is there any other discussion?

265
00:57:24.908 --> 00:57:35.385
Okay, I do need some sort of motion. I'll move to deny the application as submitted because of its noncompliance with the design guidelines for

266
00:57:35.385 --> 00:57:48.031
location and materials. I'll second the motion. Okay. Now, any more discussion on that on that motion. And does everyone

267
00:57:48.031 --> 00:58:00.910
understand it? I just want to make sure that when we if we do approve a carport or garage, of course, that the aluminum still

268
00:58:00.910 --> 00:58:12.488
bothers me in a historic district. And, and the reason I asked was the flooding is because I know it doesn't rust,

269
00:58:12.488 --> 00:58:23.633
but still I see what happens with it and the wind so that I will not support aluminum in historic district. And I certainly understand the

270
00:58:23.633 --> 00:58:34.077
strength of the aluminum and wanting that. I suppose I wouldn't be against cladding it with either wood or, as you

271
00:58:34.077 --> 00:58:46.756
called it, the foa foa lumber, the plastic wood. I wouldn't have a real problem with that. It would change the whole look of the of the carport. And I agree, I would the faux wood. I

272
00:58:46.756 --> 00:58:57.467
would entertain that too, but not at this location. That's right on the street. So for you in front location, it's both it's the materials and you know, it's a corner. So you know,

273
00:58:57.467 --> 00:59:07.977
there's two, two streets of course. And so I, I thought before I went there, I thought, well, maybe this is their side secondary street, which I think still I had a concern about the

274
00:59:07.977 --> 00:59:17.319
variance. But it's not this is the front door is there. They're addressed off pineapple. I have a problem with it being so close so close to the to the

275
00:59:17.319 --> 00:59:32.068
right of way. Okay. Any other comments on the motion before we vote? No, let's vote. I

276
00:59:32.068 --> 00:59:43.913
repeat the motion, please. Everyone will understand it's. The motion was submitted to deny as submitted due to design

277
00:59:43.913 --> 00:59:54.890
review guidelines and along with the. It does not conform to the Land Development Code. I think what I actually said was noncompliance as to location

278
00:59:54.890 --> 01:00:06.235
and materials as described in design guidelines. So it's to me it's location and the materials. Okay. That's important. And I have a question. So if we the motion is to deny. So if we say yes,

279
01:00:06.235 --> 01:00:14.544
you're voting to deny. That is correct. Mr. Solomon. Okay. Okay. Everyone understand the motion. Ready to vote. Let's

280
01:00:14.544 --> 01:00:31.794
vote. Miss produce. Mr. Yes. Mr. Cadena. Yes. Miss Kaplan, chairperson. Rosinski. Yes.

281
01:00:31.794 --> 01:00:45.174
Okay. Do you understand what happened? Okay. It was denied. I get it, you got it. Okay. It

282
01:00:45.174 --> 01:01:00.022
doesn't mean you can't reapply, reapply, rethink. Sure. That

283
01:01:00.022 --> 01:01:12.501
property. And we put a lot of money to beautify when that happened. Comments throughout the day. And I'm like, oh my God, let's stop the time to

284
01:01:12.501 --> 01:01:23.078
time and maybe every other problem is not there until you refresh doctoral degree, you know, to say that we are, we're not, we're doing something

285
01:01:23.078 --> 01:01:35.290
that's against the law. But most people would come up with something that's fine. And then there's something that you. And

286
01:01:35.290 --> 01:01:49.605
this is something that. You know, it's. 100 years ago. The rest of us today. Technology.

287
01:01:49.605 --> 01:02:03.386
70% of the liver is natural. And that specialized. I just want to share that he didn't have that problem. So anyway, I

288
01:02:03.386 --> 01:02:13.396
disagree with something you say, okay, except what you're saying, okay. Well, come back and make

289
01:02:13.396 --> 01:02:23.172
all of that those statements again and show us a little something different and we'll see what we could do. And I

290
01:02:23.172 --> 01:02:34.950
think I, I think what we've said is that we would be open to, I wouldn't normally say this, but we would be open to a simulated wood or whatever you guys want to call it to clad it

291
01:02:34.950 --> 01:02:39.121
and you got to get it off the street. I mean, you really have

292
01:02:39.121 --> 01:02:58.708
you. Or not? That's. It's not.

293
01:02:58.708 --> 01:03:25.134
A government. Well, I think unfortunately whatever you do, it's it's going to it's going to reduce the size of your yard.

294
01:03:25.134 --> 01:03:35.744
So I mean, we shouldn't be. Yeah, we really need this discussion. Shouldn't be. We've given you we've given you some suggestions. We appreciate it. We I know you've got a tight situation because you've got a

295
01:03:35.744 --> 01:03:47.155
lot of things going on on the property. But it just and it's not just being in a neighborhood, it's being part of a historic district. So there's another layer of review and that's what we're here for. We're going to we're going to

296
01:03:47.155 --> 01:03:59.402
move on. But I do hope that you rethink and and come back. Sorry. Okay. Next application

297
01:03:59.402 --> 01:04:10.312
26.41. Tarpon registry. Certificate of appropriateness. To construct a two story structure at 144 East Tarpon Avenue. Carolyn. Yes. So this

298
01:04:10.312 --> 01:04:22.024
first slide is showing you the location and land use context within the the special area plan in the T5B district

299
01:04:22.024 --> 01:04:33.202
transect. This slide is showing you the location of the subject property within the National Register and Local Historic District. The property is

300
01:04:33.202 --> 01:04:43.579
currently a vacant lot, so it is non contributing non historic. Just to give. And the applicant is seeking a certificate of appropriateness to construct a new two story

301
01:04:43.579 --> 01:04:55.124
mixed use building on the vacant lot which is both in the national and local historic district. This slide is showing you the former building that

302
01:04:55.124 --> 01:05:04.567
was located on this property. Just to give a little bit of background, it was the GE Noblet building. It was formerly the site of a hardware

303
01:05:04.567 --> 01:05:17.079
store and bakery. It was a rusticated concrete block structure, two story with a balcony that had a shed roof and iron railings, decorative

304
01:05:17.079 --> 01:05:27.256
cornice, and you can see that here. It also had a marble name and date block, which we still have today. And the clerk's

305
01:05:27.256 --> 01:05:39.502
office. Just this. This slide is showing you how in 2008, over time, the building had

306
01:05:39.502 --> 01:05:53.482
been inappropriately altered. And at the time, in 2008, the city looked at acquiring the building. There were. There were three buildings on the

307
01:05:53.482 --> 01:06:06.762
site. This is the structure that was located at 138 East Tarpon Avenue. It featured this arched, recessed entry. The

308
01:06:06.762 --> 01:06:19.075
survey for the property. So when the city looked at acquiring the site, all three structures on the property were found to be unsound. The city

309
01:06:19.075 --> 01:06:29.985
demolished the structures and then the community redevelopment area purchased the property last year. In April of 2005, the CRA issued

310
01:06:29.985 --> 01:06:40.596
an invitation to negotiate for development proposals with mixed use, and the registry was the. The ranked. The top ranked

311
01:06:40.596 --> 01:06:48.838
proposal. So this is showing the proposed site plan for the

312
01:06:48.838 --> 01:07:04.085
registry. The floor plan. This is the second level floor plan. The slide is showing you the proposed elevations at the top

313
01:07:04.085 --> 01:07:17.766
there. That is the west elevation. And these show the south elevation. In the north elevations. The north elevation would be what is facing Tarpon

314
01:07:17.766 --> 01:07:29.545
Avenue. The south elevation would be facing Court Street. And there at the bottom you can see the proposed elevations for the courtyard. You can get a

315
01:07:29.545 --> 01:07:39.321
little bit better sense from these renderings provided by the applicant. So this would be the the Tarpon Avenue elevation

316
01:07:39.321 --> 01:07:50.065
showing they're proposing an alcove entry. And this would be the Court street elevation. And this is a rendering of the

317
01:07:50.065 --> 01:08:02.411
proposed courtyard. So our relevant standards for review would be new construction new construction consistency. The

318
01:08:02.411 --> 01:08:12.188
proposed height would be 30ft and the width would be the width of the property which is 50ft. This is consistent. There would be a slight varying side

319
01:08:12.188 --> 01:08:25.734
setback on the west side that has been proposed. These dimensions are consistent with other contributing structures on Tarpon Avenue. With respect

320
01:08:25.734 --> 01:08:36.946
to the windows, doors and entries. The design review guideline manuals provides us with some some guidance for looking at windows and doors on

321
01:08:36.946 --> 01:08:47.723
new construction. We want types, proportions and alignments that are typical of the type of building being constructed and sensitive to the historic

322
01:08:47.723 --> 01:08:59.101
district. We want some similar window spacing patterns and the ratio of windows to wall on the primary street elevation. And in this case, there's kind of

323
01:08:59.101 --> 01:09:11.080
two primary street elevations should be similar with historic structures. With respect to the proposal, the storefront doors and windows are typical of

324
01:09:11.080 --> 01:09:21.423
commercial buildings. The simple design that is being proposed is sensitive to the historic district and consistent with the surrounding architecture in terms of proportion, spacing and

325
01:09:21.423 --> 01:09:33.736
alignment. And it's not trying to reproduce a false historic appearance. It has a storefront that looks similar to any modern storefront, but is simple in design, so it's not

326
01:09:33.736 --> 01:09:44.513
detracting from the historic district. The first floor entry on the Tarpon Avenue facade would utilize a double full pane doors with sidelights and transom, which is consistent

327
01:09:44.513 --> 01:09:53.522
with the character of the surrounding neighborhood, and on the second floor would be full pane French style aluminum doors providing a fenestration

328
01:09:53.522 --> 01:10:06.568
rhythm. That's and ratio that's complementary to other contributing structures on Tarpon Avenue. Again, without trying to create a false historic appearance with

329
01:10:06.568 --> 01:10:18.113
respect to the Court Street facade, it's very similar to the Tarpon Avenue facade, except they're proposing the use of divided light windows on that second floor, and the

330
01:10:18.113 --> 01:10:28.424
proportion, spacing and alignment are sensitive to the character of the streetscape and the surrounding architecture. With respect to neighborhood and district context, the proposed

331
01:10:28.424 --> 01:10:37.733
construction would alter the existing streetscape, but the argument could be made that it's restoring the rhythm of the historic streetscape with

332
01:10:37.733 --> 01:10:49.745
respect to roof shape and texture. Flat roofs are common throughout the the National Register and the local historic district for commercial

333
01:10:49.745 --> 01:11:00.789
structures. I believe all of the surrounding contributing structures have flat roofs, with the exception of the train depot. With respect to size and

334
01:11:00.789 --> 01:11:11.734
massing in shape, it's compatible with contributing structures in the district and the immediate vicinity. With respect to landscaping, the

335
01:11:11.734 --> 01:11:22.444
landscaping plan would need to be developed to conform with code requirements as part of the building permitting process.

336
01:11:22.444 --> 01:11:32.488
I don't know. And then with respect to adherence to the Secretary's guidelines, again, since we're dealing with vacant LOT, largely it's related to

337
01:11:32.488 --> 01:11:42.264
the new construction being undertaken in a manner that it's not having a negative impact on the integrity of the

338
01:11:42.264 --> 01:11:52.374
historic district itself. And the proposed project does conform with the Land Development Code and generally complies with the comprehensive

339
01:11:52.374 --> 01:12:06.688
plan. And these are just giving us some guidelines for the new construction, many of which I've already spoken about. And

340
01:12:06.688 --> 01:12:16.365
so staff is recommending approval of the project. But I would like to see the following conditions incorporated into any approval that the HPV may

341
01:12:16.365 --> 01:12:29.378
give. So we do still have that historic marble name and date plate. I think it would be great to incorporate that into the construction of the new structure, not in the same

342
01:12:29.378 --> 01:12:38.987
place that the historic structure had it, not in a way that is in any way trying to give the sense that this is the historic structure, but just keeping a little bit of that,

343
01:12:38.987 --> 01:12:50.365
the history of the building in its natural, you know, unique location. I would also suggest that the facade is somewhat

344
01:12:50.365 --> 01:13:03.278
monotonous and including some sort of archway design into that courtyard entrance would be nodding to the building's

345
01:13:03.278 --> 01:13:14.356
historic past, kind of restoring the historic rhythm of the streetscape. Just adding a little bit of visual esthetic interest to the facade. It

346
01:13:14.356 --> 01:13:25.567
doesn't have to be a physical archway. It could just be, you know, something in brickwork or something like that. I'm just putting that out there as, as a potential improvement on, on

347
01:13:25.567 --> 01:13:37.446
the proposed design that might restore some of the historic features of what was once there. And then finally, that the certificate of appropriateness would expire in three years. If a building permit has not been

348
01:13:37.446 --> 01:13:46.187
issued for the project. So I'll enter my staff report and presentation into the record and answer any questions you might have. Thank you. Carolyn.

349
01:13:46.187 --> 01:13:58.634
Any questions for Carolyn? No. Okay. The applicant please. State your name and address if

350
01:13:58.634 --> 01:14:10.145
you would. Joe Harrington, 7504 North Mobley Road, Odessa, Florida. Casey Smith, 115 North

351
01:14:10.145 --> 01:14:23.125
Gross Avenue. Okay, thank you for your for your time this evening. As as mentioned, we went through the process just about the end of last year, our

352
01:14:23.125 --> 01:14:33.602
development agreement and going through the processes here, both TRC and historic preservation, we've taken care to present, you know, a design that we felt, you know, fits

353
01:14:33.602 --> 01:14:44.646
into the historic fabric of Tarpon Springs without recreating what has been lost. Unfortunately, in regard to the arch, if you if you look back at that original building, the

354
01:14:44.646 --> 01:14:56.224
original building was 40ft wide and there was ten foot gap. And that that third building was added. Yeah. There you go. So that original mass was 40ft wide and two and two stories

355
01:14:56.224 --> 01:15:07.369
tall. What we're doing is taking the full 50ft wide and going two stories tall. And we really spent a lot of time addressing the scale and the proportion. We broke down our

356
01:15:07.369 --> 01:15:19.314
elevations into four equal bays. And through one of those bays, you enter the courtyard into the center. So we do feel like just adding an arch because there used to be one on the street is, is, you know, not

357
01:15:19.314 --> 01:15:30.459
compatible with the, the way that we approve historic properties. Having said that, though, we are open to and as we've been since the very beginning, open to the

358
01:15:30.459 --> 01:15:42.304
community's input, I'm happy to say to this point, we've heard nothing but but great praises and excitement for the project, and we're super excited to have this opportunity. And, you know,

359
01:15:42.304 --> 01:15:55.250
look forward to hearing your comments. Thank you. Okay. Any questions for the applicants?

360
01:15:55.250 --> 01:16:06.227
Thank you. I do have some comments, Mr. Harrington. A couple of things. Big picture. First, you're obviously not using the building lot line to

361
01:16:06.227 --> 01:16:17.472
lot line. You've got, I guess, is that a ten foot, 11 foot opening on the west side that leads to the courtyard? And then you have an open courtyard

362
01:16:17.472 --> 01:16:28.850
in the middle. Your thoughts as to why you didn't want to make the building go lot line to lot line. It does go to lot line, lot line. It's a little confusing on that ground floor plan because we're just cutting through the first level. So

363
01:16:28.850 --> 01:16:39.694
this is the Tarpon Springs elevation as you see, you know, the the edge of the brick is basically lot line to lot line that pass through. Is that right? Bay all the way to the

364
01:16:39.694 --> 01:16:50.372
right on the ground floor? That's the opening through the courtyard. Also, you can see in there, it's, it's small, but we, we presented it in our ITN response that we did

365
01:16:50.372 --> 01:17:00.749
incorporate the marble face block. So we have a little, little exhibit right there. It's also part of our artwork. We're required to provide artwork, but we've we've tied it into the history of Tarpon

366
01:17:00.749 --> 01:17:10.158
Springs with the mural. So that's also right in that area. Oh, can I point again, just let me know what slide you want to.

367
01:17:10.158 --> 01:17:15.964
In here. No. The one that you were. Yeah. No the one. Yeah.

368
01:17:15.964 --> 01:17:50.799
Okay. Yeah. So so the edge of the building is right here. Right here. That's the full

369
01:17:50.799 --> 01:18:00.976
50ft wide on the ground floor. You're just seeing this area. And then there's that ten foot wide walkway that leads back into the courtyard. This is right. Right here is where

370
01:18:00.976 --> 01:18:12.420
we've we put the marble face block, the Noblet face block with a little plaque explaining the history of the building. So. So what is the purpose of the

371
01:18:12.420 --> 01:18:23.632
courtyard in the in the center of the property? It's twofold. So that was one of the strategies that we were able to use to get hotel rooms on this block because it is such a

372
01:18:23.632 --> 01:18:32.974
narrow site. So this provides natural light and views for the hotel rooms above. And then it also opens up and provides this mid block entertainment area

373
01:18:32.974 --> 01:18:42.216
that opens up onto a, a small lounge and then an indoor event space as well. I'll show you

374
01:18:42.216 --> 01:18:56.030
the plan. So this is the this is Court Street here. This is the indoor event space. And then this is the open courtyard. So this courtyard will open to the event space. And it can

375
01:18:56.030 --> 01:19:06.875
also open into the lounge. And then it's open to Tarpon Avenue. So we envision, you know, especially on festival days or when there's a special event that this, you know, comes through and becomes porous. You

376
01:19:06.875 --> 01:19:18.319
can enter the building along Court Street on the center, and actually walk all the way through. Just moving on to before I get into my questions,

377
01:19:18.319 --> 01:19:30.298
I just, I do want to say, I think there's many facets about the project that I really like. I like that it's only two story. Frank personally. I mean, three would have been okay, a little more challenging in terms of

378
01:19:30.298 --> 01:19:41.943
the front facade design, but I like the two. I think there's, I think the uses will be complementary to, to the street, which is not our purview. But, you know, I think that's a good feature. I like some some of

379
01:19:41.943 --> 01:19:52.554
the materials, some of the materials I have questions about. I do like that you've got you're using the bays along there, the four bays along the Tarpon Avenue and frankly, on the Court Street side to

380
01:19:52.554 --> 01:20:03.765
replicate the pattern that we have and the, the, the display windows that we have along many of the buildings along Tarpon Avenue. So there's a lot of good things about it. So please

381
01:20:03.765 --> 01:20:14.308
don't take my comments negative, but I, I don't understand a couple of them and some I just need some more information. So with regard to this is shown on

382
01:20:14.308 --> 01:20:24.219
the site plan. And then it's also shown on the court street elevation on the site plan it says roll up. What's that word

383
01:20:24.219 --> 01:20:35.864
roll up entry. There's three of them along the back along the court street side and on the court elevation. There is what appears to be a industrial roll

384
01:20:35.864 --> 01:20:47.676
up door on the right, furthest right panel. What is that? Yeah, it's overhead sectional door. I think it's called out because we we submitted again we were

385
01:20:47.676 --> 01:20:58.153
going through it and process. And so to close on the land we have to submit for TRC and historic preservation. So one of those site plans is from TRC. And we developed it a little

386
01:20:58.153 --> 01:21:08.963
bit since since submitting for HPV. But these are the elevations. I think this door that you're referring to here, this is on Court Street. This is the main hotel entrance. And what what we tried to do here

387
01:21:08.963 --> 01:21:19.774
was because the building so narrow and it's so long and we have double frontages, we try to make an area of the, of the building to handle where we could bring in our services

388
01:21:19.774 --> 01:21:30.552
deliveries. We're going to have a trash dumpster in there, our grease, our grease trap. And we're trying to keep as much as we can actually off the street and behind closed doors. We'd

389
01:21:30.552 --> 01:21:41.496
like to get our water infrastructure there. We don't know if we're going to be able to do that with TRC. I'm sorry, what was the last thing your water, the water infrastructure, like the backflow preventers and all of that that's out on

390
01:21:41.496 --> 01:21:52.040
the street. So we made some space intentionally to deal with the service aspects of the building. And that's why we decided to put the the roll up door there to help with the,

391
01:21:52.040 --> 01:22:04.452
the scale compatibility. We ran these clerestory windows all the way across. So we're maintaining that datum. And we, you know, we felt that the sectional door was appropriate in scale along with the rest of

392
01:22:04.452 --> 01:22:16.564
the elevation. But that's the thought. Well, I reserve my comments. So on the site plan where it says roll up, what does it say? I think we have we have there's two others, two

393
01:22:16.564 --> 01:22:27.609
others to the on the. Yeah, there, those are not in the plan anymore. So we, we, we're thinking about making these roll up entries and allowing people to pass all the way through. But there's an 18 inch

394
01:22:27.609 --> 01:22:38.887
grade difference from Tarpon Avenue to Court Street that we're making up through the building, and to also provide access to this area. Just we couldn't get the grades to work out. So we've since switched

395
01:22:38.887 --> 01:22:50.365
these to fixed, fixed storefront with only one point of entrance on Court Street. Okay, so that part is outdated. That particular site plan. Yeah,

396
01:22:50.365 --> 01:22:59.808
that was that was from TRC. Sorry about that. Okay. To the

397
01:22:59.808 --> 01:23:13.521
on the Tarpon Avenue elevations. I'm looking at both the elevation and the rendering. I, I like the recessed front entrance. I like the first

398
01:23:13.521 --> 01:23:25.300
level windows that you have showcase windows. I assume you're gonna have some kind of showcase windows in there for whatever retailer goes in there. But when you get to the second floor, the windows go floor to

399
01:23:25.300 --> 01:23:36.477
ceiling. And I think you need to do something about that. It needs the first floor windows have a kick plate along the bottom, and then they have some changing, you know, change out

400
01:23:36.477 --> 01:23:47.922
of the lighting of the lights within the windows. And, and those top the windows on the second floor are just two large panes of glass. And I just don't think that that's historically consistent with

401
01:23:47.922 --> 01:23:59.000
what's going on other places. So if you have some ideas about how to fix that, I would like to hear that. Sure. We we added since since originally designing it, we added these in

402
01:23:59.000 --> 01:24:09.344
to be a French doors. So they actually open up. And then we have the balcony that goes across Tarpon Avenue here along the sidewalk. And each one of these are a private balcony. So

403
01:24:09.344 --> 01:24:20.187
those doors are operable and do open up. They're probably not shown, you know, graphically to your point, you know, that would be the kick plate there and a little bit smaller window.

404
01:24:20.187 --> 01:24:31.966
But the intent is for those to be French doors. So the renderings that we have on that issue are, are not your current thinking and not your current design. They're fairly close. Yeah. I mean that the plans the plan show them as doors, but we

405
01:24:31.966 --> 01:24:42.911
just didn't update the renderings with that specific. These are shown accurately accurately here. And then on the elevation it looks like floor to ceiling glass there too. I don't see anything.

406
01:24:42.911 --> 01:24:54.222
Here's the doors on the elevation page. And again, where we are in the are the process is we're, we're almost through schematic design. So we're still fairly early in the design process for going

407
01:24:54.222 --> 01:25:04.765
through these processes. So I understand that normally when you, you know, have them, all the selections are made, but we're, we're still early in the early in the design process. Okay. Well, that's a big issue

408
01:25:04.765 --> 01:25:15.843
to me that the windows get that that gets fixed and it's, and it's not what we see here. The other thing on the facade is there's two, two story buildings to the north of you.

409
01:25:15.843 --> 01:25:26.988
One is has two frogs in it, and the other one has a healing hedge, which the two frogs building has a second floor balcony and a shed roof on that balcony. The healing hedge,

410
01:25:26.988 --> 01:25:37.765
which has a second floor balcony and a shed roof, approved but hasn't been constructed yet, so I don't. I'd like to see a shed roof on that second floor to be

411
01:25:37.765 --> 01:25:46.374
consistent with what we have across the street, and actually to be consistent with what was on the building originally.

412
01:25:46.374 --> 01:25:59.287
Okay. I'm concerned about that, and I share this concern about the entrance to the courtyard. I mean, I'm not sold on it has

413
01:25:59.287 --> 01:26:09.797
to be an archway, but I think you need to do something to make that a little more obvious. Like this is where you go through people. This is this is the place. I mean, I think it's

414
01:26:09.797 --> 01:26:20.275
kind of I see what you're doing. You've got a little pattern going, but I think something to jazz that entrance up and, you know, open to your suggestions. I think you need something with

415
01:26:20.275 --> 01:26:32.086
regard to that. We do have our mural that's going to run through there. It talks about the history of Tarpon Springs, and it'll run right through this area here. And then we have that historic Noblet face

416
01:26:32.086 --> 01:26:43.665
block as well. The other thing that, you know, may not really come through in the rendering that as you're walking down the sidewalk, you're already passing underneath the balcony. And I do believe it'll be

417
01:26:43.665 --> 01:26:54.075
fairly, you know, straightforward. You'll also see natural light coming through the other end of this. It's only about 35ft until it opens up into the courtyard. So we're definitely going to do

418
01:26:54.075 --> 01:27:03.851
everything, you know, in our ability to help funnel people down that direction as well. But I had a couple questions

419
01:27:03.851 --> 01:27:16.931
about materials. I can just find the right page. So I'm looking at the elevation page and it's so small, it's really

420
01:27:16.931 --> 01:27:26.708
hard to read. So I guess what I'm reading is that the maybe you could go to the facade. One of the renderings, either one. Sure. So I'm assuming that the

421
01:27:26.708 --> 01:27:37.685
the facade is brick. It's real brick. Yes. Okay. What about the windows themselves? The window surrounds are aluminum

422
01:27:37.685 --> 01:27:49.664
or aluminum. Okay. And what about are those what you call eyebrows along the second floor, above those windows? Is that what you're calling an eyebrow? And is that aluminum? Yes. Okay.

423
01:27:49.664 --> 01:28:00.374
So if you you can take those out and then you put the shed roof. Then you don't need to have the four individual ones. But. So that would be aluminum to I'm sorry I didn't follow

424
01:28:00.374 --> 01:28:11.385
you on the last part. So if you take off the the four eyebrows and make a shed roof over the whole thing, which honestly, I think your patrons are going to be a lot happier with the roof there than just a little

425
01:28:11.385 --> 01:28:20.962
without any shade. And it's consistent with what's, you know, occurring in the area that would that be aluminum as well? More than likely, yes.

426
01:28:20.962 --> 01:28:31.371
Okay. And the. It says number eight is an aluminum canopy. I'm not sure where is that on the court street side. What is

427
01:28:31.371 --> 01:28:48.156
the aluminum canopy? Is there a let me see if I can see it here. I don't know if that was the

428
01:28:48.156 --> 01:28:54.094
canopy on the. It's probably the ones up on the second floor,

429
01:28:54.094 --> 01:29:15.917
but let me. Yeah, it's. The canopy is up on the second floor that we were just talking about. The canopy on the floor,

430
01:29:15.917 --> 01:29:26.727
what we discussed, what we called the eyebrows. Okay, so all that is aluminum. Are there eyebrows on the I forget it are

431
01:29:26.727 --> 01:29:37.171
eyebrows on the Port Street side too? Yes. But no balconies on the Court Street side, no balconies on that side. And the canopy on the above. The first

432
01:29:37.171 --> 01:29:50.485
level on both facades is also aluminum. Yes. Correct. It'll be decorative and it'll be it'll be decorative aluminum. It'll be all custom. It's not,

433
01:29:50.485 --> 01:30:00.161
you know, like just in context of the discussion here, it's not like prefabricated aluminum or anything like that. Okay. That's all my questions, Mr.

434
01:30:00.161 --> 01:30:12.840
Chairman. Okay. Anybody else can't these aluminum items, can you texturize them in any way that they don't look aluminum? Yeah. It'll be powder coated. So it'll it'll have it'll have

435
01:30:12.840 --> 01:30:24.685
a finish. It'll have a color and a finish and a, and a slight texture on top of it. I

436
01:30:24.685 --> 01:30:36.564
was at the city's presentation when there were three of you giving your plans and didn't the. Someone from the city

437
01:30:36.564 --> 01:30:48.576
request some sort of roll up doors for security, for closing closing areas off at certain times that that point we were specifically talking about this

438
01:30:48.576 --> 01:30:58.986
gate here on Tarpon Avenue, which is still is still the case. It's just shown open. But yes, this will be able to be closed after hours. And it was a security reason and it was something that the city, as I

439
01:30:58.986 --> 01:31:10.331
recall, they actually requested. Right. Okay. Well, let's talk about that. Roll up for a second. I think there's a lot of other solutions. I understand the need to have some delivery, some back of

440
01:31:10.331 --> 01:31:21.441
house. I get all that, but I don't get is the roll up industrial door. I think you need a better solution for that. And I'm sure there's a lot of things you could do that aren't clear glass so that people can

441
01:31:21.441 --> 01:31:31.953
see through. I get that you don't want them to see through it, but an industrial roll up door in the main part of Tarpon Avenue, I just don't think is consistent with the historic guidelines. I understand the

442
01:31:31.953 --> 01:31:42.429
need for it, but I I'm not going to vote for that with the historic with the roll up door. And I and I think you need to fix the windows on the front facade as well so that we can

443
01:31:42.429 --> 01:31:51.505
see that change and then see whatever you're going to do as an alternative to the roll up door. Are you opposed to any

444
01:31:51.505 --> 01:32:04.151
roll up door? So if it was a glass roll up door. Or if I mean just, just for the record, so you guys know where I'm coming from, I would never, I

445
01:32:04.151 --> 01:32:14.061
would never propose something, especially in a historic district that I didn't feel was was tasteful and fitting. So I see that you don't want the roll up door as an industrial,

446
01:32:14.061 --> 01:32:25.740
you know, sort of esthetic to it, but we'll select a really nice door. You know, we're not going to select like just the regular, you know, chunky roll up door like panelized. This would be more like an insulated

447
01:32:25.740 --> 01:32:37.018
garage door. The idea here, we did look at having a double door as well instead of a roll up door. But the problem that we kept on running into is that these bays are so strong, and

448
01:32:37.018 --> 01:32:48.462
we didn't want to put another, smaller door in here and confuse that with potentially the entrance. And it didn't fit up with those bays. So while I respect your opinion on the roll up door and can completely

449
01:32:48.462 --> 01:32:59.774
see where you're coming from, we studied it a bunch of different ways and just honestly haven't been able to come up with another solution that works, but we're open to discussion now. I mean, it just

450
01:32:59.774 --> 01:33:10.885
it's just it smacks of industrial to me. And I think, you know, part of the reason that these this building and, and quite a few others along Tarpon Avenue go all not all of them, but many of them do go

451
01:33:10.885 --> 01:33:21.528
through to Court Street. And so you've seen changes to the backs of those buildings along Court Street to make them. Some of them are now open. There's antique store now that used to not be open from Court Street.

452
01:33:21.528 --> 01:33:32.673
Now it's open from Court Street. So I think your building is going to activate Court Street. It's going to activate the south side of Court Street, where the city has been talking to some folks for a long time about putting a parking garage

453
01:33:32.673 --> 01:33:44.418
and some retail. So if this starts to look too industrial, you know, it's going to have an impact on the people to court on the south side of Court Street. So, I mean, I just, I,

454
01:33:44.418 --> 01:33:56.564
it's and I, and I guess I don't, I saw somewhere too that there's another roll up door inside the courtyard, which I guess is not going to be visible from the street. Yeah. You wouldn't, you wouldn't see it. This, it's not in this

455
01:33:56.564 --> 01:34:06.407
rendering. This would be like where you would be standing with the door open, looking onto the courtyard. So that door would be back behind you, but it's not visible from the street. And that's going to be

456
01:34:06.407 --> 01:34:16.884
like a nice glass garage door, essentially. And the purpose of that is to close off the courtyard. No, just so we can open up the indoor event space to the outdoor event space. And

457
01:34:16.884 --> 01:34:27.361
that can flow through as one contiguous space. So can you go to the maybe can you show me where it is on the first floor

458
01:34:27.361 --> 01:34:41.575
floor plan? Yeah, sure. Right here. Yeah. So I think Tarpon Avenue then this would be the three block connection. You

459
01:34:41.575 --> 01:34:51.385
have the courtyard here, and then this would be the door that would open up. And that makes it so that these spaces can work as one. And then these are bifold doors. They open up

460
01:34:51.385 --> 01:35:04.031
as well. They pocket back and then this space will open up as well to the courtyard. So no longer does there pass through. That goes all the way from tarpon to court. You can, you can pass through, you can pass

461
01:35:04.031 --> 01:35:14.775
through the building. And what what changed? That was that 18 inch change in grade. So the way that we handled it in our in our building was there's a series of two small ramps right here by the restrooms. So we're

462
01:35:14.775 --> 01:35:25.952
able to make up that difference of 18in. And then there's some steps here in the courtyard. Just to address the change in elevation, right. Simply. And

463
01:35:25.952 --> 01:35:37.131
you have the other uses on the first floor are. Or the uses on the first floor are a retail or restaurant or whatever space in the front. Yes, this is retail. And then this is a lounge with

464
01:35:37.131 --> 01:35:47.942
small bites. These are the restrooms, back of house, elevator stair. This is the that area, that utility space that we were talking about for trash and grease interceptor.

465
01:35:47.942 --> 01:35:58.919
This is the main entrance into the hotel, especially after hours. And then this is the indoor event space. I forget which building it is on Tarpon

466
01:35:58.919 --> 01:36:08.361
Avenue, the one that used to be the Chevrolet. And they have the doors. They still are there that they're like bifold doors. They fold all the way to the side so that cars could go in

467
01:36:08.361 --> 01:36:21.075
and out. So, I mean, I know it's a historic, a historic door type of door maybe doesn't exist anymore, but something if that's what you're proposing, you know, either place, you

468
01:36:21.075 --> 01:36:31.485
know, on the interior, I'm really less I'm less concerned about the interior because you're not going to really see that. But I think, you know, like I said, there's we need a better solution for that Court

469
01:36:31.485 --> 01:36:43.697
street facade. And if you don't want it to be, if you want it to be glass, but have some some way so that people can't see in it because it's your back of house. I get that, and I'd be

470
01:36:43.697 --> 01:36:53.641
supportive. I normally don't like shaded glass or anything, but I understand in this case that that's what you need. You don't want to put you don't want to have, you know, your back of house on parade for

471
01:36:53.641 --> 01:37:02.916
everybody to see the trash cans and like a frosted glass or something. Yeah, but some kind of frosted glass or something that's functions for what you need, but also still continues

472
01:37:02.916 --> 01:37:13.928
that that view Assad. But I mean, realistically, how long will that door be closed? My understanding at that city

473
01:37:13.928 --> 01:37:25.806
meeting was that the the supervisors did not want that open at all hours for people walking in and out and maybe hanging out in the courtyard.

474
01:37:25.806 --> 01:37:36.917
They wanted that secure. So, I mean, it's not like that door is going to be down all day. It's only going to be at night, right when we're when we do not have the operating hours, when

475
01:37:36.917 --> 01:37:48.294
we're closed, essentially. Yeah. On the ground floor. So I'd say, what are we planning for 10 to 8 I think. Yeah. And I'm sorry, are you asking if that garage door would be open the majority

476
01:37:48.294 --> 01:38:00.441
of the day? No, not if that's our back of house where we're putting stuff in that would not be where people enter through. They would enter through the doors that were to the left of that. So, so at our city

477
01:38:00.441 --> 01:38:11.051
meeting, I think that you're thinking about when there was the full thoroughfare all the way through. So there's not that any longer. So now you've got the event space on the right side, right? And there's doors there where people could

478
01:38:11.051 --> 01:38:23.063
enter and tarpon on court. Well, but there's isn't there one on tarpon also. I'm sorry, that gate on the front side. Yes. So that gate would close after business hours. So probably around 8 p.m. at night. And is

479
01:38:23.063 --> 01:38:35.442
that a gate or is that a roll up gate. So that's a gate. Okay. All right, I misunderstood. I said the gate. The gate you're talking about, Mr. Chairman, is is on the the opening on Tarpon Avenue side. Right. I thought

480
01:38:35.442 --> 01:38:45.686
that was where the roll up was, but the roll ups in the back. I personally don't have a problem with with the roll with the

481
01:38:45.686 --> 01:38:57.898
roll up door, especially if it's on court. Yeah, it's on court. It's just so it's everybody sees the plan. This is the area here. That's our back of house area. This is the

482
01:38:57.898 --> 01:39:09.810
roll up door. This is Court Street. Okay. Thank you. And again, I mean, we we want this to be nice to we're incentivized. It's right next to our main entrance of the hotel. So, you know, having some potted plants out there.

483
01:39:09.810 --> 01:39:19.820
And, you know, we're really going to take care to make sure it looks looks great. Sorry. I had another question on the Tarpon Avenue side. Are the

484
01:39:19.820 --> 01:39:30.364
trees going to have to come out to be able to accommodate the the balcony or to accommodate the balcony? Yes, but you'll be replanting those oak trees. We

485
01:39:30.364 --> 01:39:41.975
don't we don't have any area on our property to replant them. I don't know if the city is planning on replanting them. We were out there with an arborist a couple of times, but last

486
01:39:41.975 --> 01:39:52.719
week, and it does look like they are in a declining condition. But to accommodate to accommodate the balcony, they do have to have to go as well as there's some power

487
01:39:52.719 --> 01:40:05.465
poles to do, power poles. An above ground power regular above ground power pole is a it's a I don't I don't think it's a full power pole. It's just feeding what looks to be

488
01:40:05.465 --> 01:40:16.443
the overhead lights, those high pressure sodium lights, the street lights. So that we have a couple of differences from,

489
01:40:16.443 --> 01:40:26.720
from what you're contemplating now as compared to what you submitted, you've changed the windows on the second floor on the Tarpon Avenue facade. I

490
01:40:26.720 --> 01:40:37.331
think we need to add the shed roof to be consistent historically. And then I would like to see something. I personally like to see something besides a roll up window door. I think if we

491
01:40:37.331 --> 01:40:48.241
treat Court Avenue, Court Street as a secondary street, I mean, it's not Tarpon Avenue, I get that. But if we treat it as a secondary street and let it start to disintegrate, it's going to become a secondary

492
01:40:48.241 --> 01:40:58.719
street. And you've got already people have activated the back. The other stores that, you know, back up to court to go all the way through. Have, you know, done improvements to their

493
01:40:58.719 --> 01:41:09.463
backsides on court to. And I think this that should I think that we need a different solution than the roll up industrial door. You know,

494
01:41:09.463 --> 01:41:20.274
there's a, there's a I think it's glass over on. So there's a building behind the Coca-Cola building that's on the same site. It's a little one story building. I think it's a

495
01:41:20.274 --> 01:41:31.351
organic food store. Now. They have, they had a they have a garage door originally, and it might be glass. Okay. Yeah, I can take a take a look. It's

496
01:41:31.351 --> 01:41:41.662
much wider, I think, than what you have. But the, the idea of it. And then if you wanted to put do the frosted glass to. I guess you want the roll up for

497
01:41:41.662 --> 01:41:52.805
the height. Is that the whole problem and the width. Yeah. It just gives us a little flexibility in the future to. If we ever decide, you know, have a have a golf cart to move people around a valet or something like that, we could

498
01:41:52.805 --> 01:42:03.783
pull it in there. We can put our trash cans in there. The trash collection is a bit uncertain. Any, any sort of deliveries we get like we need some extra furniture or something like that. We can bring it in right off the

499
01:42:03.783 --> 01:42:13.593
street, close it in the door. So having that wide open access being that that's our only service point, was the reason why we we showed the overhead

500
01:42:13.593 --> 01:42:25.372
door. And how wide is that bay that has the roll up door. I believe the door is eight feet wide, eight by eight. Yeah. Which is a small roll up door,

501
01:42:25.372 --> 01:42:36.917
but you just don't want to have two doors where you lose the space of the doors opening. Is that the. Well, it's not not only that, but if we did double doors, if we did two, three

502
01:42:36.917 --> 01:42:46.893
doors, you know, we'd have a six foot opening and we could make them tall. But what ended up happening was it threw off the proportion of this facade. So we really tried to keep the

503
01:42:46.893 --> 01:42:58.205
four bays all the way through and on the ground floor. Those bays are completely infilled, you know, with glass. And we've run this horizontal across. So when we broke that with this,

504
01:42:58.205 --> 01:43:08.682
with this bay here and just put in double doors, we looked at doing all this brick and just putting in double doors. We looked at keeping the bay and keeping the side light and doing double doors, but there

505
01:43:08.682 --> 01:43:20.494
just really wasn't a way that we felt good about proposing it, you know, from from a proportion and rhythm, rhythm, the double, the I'm sorry, the overhead door fits nicely

506
01:43:20.494 --> 01:43:31.905
within that opening. It's consistent from storefront to storefront. So that was our thought on, on including it. And like I said, you know, we don't want, we don't want to put all this money into this

507
01:43:31.905 --> 01:43:44.151
building and, and all this time and energy and then, you know, just throw a, a junky roll up door on there. So, I mean, I think we're on the, we're on the same page with it. But yeah.

508
01:43:44.151 --> 01:43:53.993
And how, how tall you said it's eight feet wide. How tall is it? Eight feet eight by eight. Yeah. Oh I'm sorry. No I'm sorry.

509
01:43:53.993 --> 01:44:00.000
It's ten by ten. Ten by ten, 98. By eight, ten. Ten feet wide

510
01:44:00.000 --> 01:44:23.990
and ten feet high. Yes. Okay. I personally don't have a problem with the with that door. Sorry.

511
01:44:23.990 --> 01:44:35.635
When you see it installed on the side. Well, I'm not so sure. Okay. I mean, that's why we're all different people. We all have. And also the comment

512
01:44:35.635 --> 01:44:47.581
about a shed roof. Are you are you talking about a, some sort of canopy over that second level? Is that what you're talking about when you like the

513
01:44:47.581 --> 01:44:57.958
original building? Yeah, just like the original building has. And there's two other examples right across the street. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were

514
01:44:57.958 --> 01:45:11.304
calling a shed roof. Shed roof? I think the people that stay in those rooms are going to be a lot happier with some kind of roof there. Yeah, we didn't want to recreate the exact building that was there. We

515
01:45:11.304 --> 01:45:21.381
wanted to pay homage to it with the Proportioning, you know, the rhythm and obviously something that fit into Tarpon Springs. We did provide cover above these doors because we do

516
01:45:21.381 --> 01:45:33.493
want cover, you know, in in this area, but we don't foresee, you know, I mean, it's just Casey and I were having this conversation today. It's hot in Florida, you know, and especially especially in the summer during the day, I don't

517
01:45:33.493 --> 01:45:44.404
see people, you know, sitting out here during the day. This is going to be, you know, an evening thing. You want to have a nice, you know, glass of wine, put a couple chairs out there for our guests, but I don't

518
01:45:44.404 --> 01:45:52.979
think it's going to make or break. It's also the north side of the building, so it's not getting direct sun. So I don't think it's going to, you know,

519
01:45:52.979 --> 01:46:06.559
impact the utility of the balconies. And I agree that we shouldn't try to make it look just like the original building,

520
01:46:06.559 --> 01:46:18.538
which is why I personally don't think it needs an arch anywhere in the front. And I'm afraid that a shed, the shed roof that we're talking about. Will make

521
01:46:18.538 --> 01:46:30.583
the building look a little too top heavy. This is the only two story building on this on this side of the street till. Until you get all the way down to the end, where the one amazing fine

522
01:46:30.583 --> 01:46:41.460
store is at. So the reason why we held this was we wanted to bring the scale down so it was more compatible with the rest of the one story buildings. Even though we are a two story building, this is still set

523
01:46:41.460 --> 01:46:50.270
back from the edge. So this reads as one mass out in front like a layer. And then there's a second layer that reads the full height. So we did it

524
01:46:50.270 --> 01:47:02.115
intentionally to break down the mass at the street. I can see that. And I, I agree with you. I think it's a wonderful design.

525
01:47:02.115 --> 01:47:15.829
Thank you. As is. I'm afraid that that shed roof, you're going to need, what, six by six posts or something to hold it up. And it's I think it'll look

526
01:47:15.829 --> 01:47:27.540
funny. You'd have to continue them down to the street. We did look at we looked at an option when we were. I mean, we've done, you know, there's probably 50 slight versions of this facade that, you know,

527
01:47:27.540 --> 01:47:39.152
took us to get there. We refined it. And you have a couple of different issues, like you mentioned, you know, just getting the rainwater off, guttering and getting the downspouts down. It adds a whole nother surface to do that.

528
01:47:39.152 --> 01:47:50.030
The scale I believe is, is really important. And, you know, I think just breaking down the whole, the whole scale of the building, setting it back, you

529
01:47:50.030 --> 01:48:00.807
know, again, we want to, we want to propose what we feel, you know, is right is a good project is a project that everybody can be, can be proud of. And this is what that, that

530
01:48:00.807 --> 01:48:13.053
results of that were. I think it was successful. Thank you. Any other questions for the

531
01:48:13.053 --> 01:48:26.366
applicant? Do either of you have anything more to say. No. Oh you're standing up. No. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. All

532
01:48:26.366 --> 01:48:35.008
right. Well then we're going to bring it back to the board here. But before we discuss it, I'd like to have some sort of

533
01:48:35.008 --> 01:48:47.621
motion. To see if we even want to discuss this. I'll make a motion to approve for

534
01:48:47.621 --> 01:49:00.166
discussion. I'm sorry. I'll make a motion in affirmative to approve. For discussion. Okay. Is that is that is that good

535
01:49:00.166 --> 01:49:12.946
enough? Okay. Do we need a second on that? Yes. You're going to second. Okay. Good. Well, we have a motion in a second. So let's discuss. Thank

536
01:49:12.946 --> 01:49:25.025
you to discuss. I think it's great. I can't hear you. I said I don't think there's anything to discuss. I like it well, I think it's a really, really, really good design. I think it's almost there. But I want

537
01:49:25.025 --> 01:49:36.202
to see. He's already said that they've changed the windows on the second floor and the Tarpon Avenue. I want to see that because that's not what that's not what he says is the current design. And so we're approving something that in our practice

538
01:49:36.202 --> 01:49:47.447
is really not what they're proposing. And I really feel strongly about that door in the back, I think. And what I'd like to see what that door is. I mean, I think you can come in with a glass door or some other

539
01:49:47.447 --> 01:49:59.726
material that that is a little has a little more articulation to it still achieves his goal of this. I understand he wants the width and the height. I get that, but a solid barn door,

540
01:49:59.726 --> 01:50:11.838
you know, industrial door. I just don't think it's consistent. What should we vote on it or she doesn't like it? Well, we're still discussing it. Okay. So no vote in my opinion.

541
01:50:11.838 --> 01:50:22.348
Yeah, I am, and the shed roof is consistent with what's along the street. That's what our design guidelines say. I don't think it'll make the building seem taller. I think it'll I

542
01:50:22.348 --> 01:50:34.627
think it will unify the whole building, honestly. I understand he doesn't want to do it, but that's not what I'm talking about. What the design guidelines say. And I think

543
01:50:34.627 --> 01:50:45.371
design guidelines are argue, argue for a shed roof on the second floor. Any other

544
01:50:45.371 --> 01:50:57.550
comments? I think it's a beautiful building. Looks like it belongs to New Orleans Bourbon Street. It's a little more modern than I thought it

545
01:50:57.550 --> 01:51:10.196
would be, but it's a beautiful building. And between developer and the city, they've worked a long time. The building that was there years ago was

546
01:51:10.196 --> 01:51:19.873
beautiful. It never have been destroyed. It's a strong building, and it was consistent with what used to be old Tarpon

547
01:51:19.873 --> 01:51:30.783
Avenue. It was beautiful. I just hate to make changes that don't conform with the historic beauty of our main street, but

548
01:51:30.783 --> 01:51:42.162
I like what I see here, and I do agree about the door. The rolling door. And I just hate to see aluminum Main Street,

549
01:51:42.162 --> 01:51:54.173
but I can understand it and I just don't like it in a historic district. But I see why you have to have it. Well, he said that he would look at

550
01:51:54.173 --> 01:52:05.685
other options for the door to release. Yeah. You mean we amend the motion? Would you amend the motion to say that they would don't have to bring the whole plants back, but the cut sheet or a drawing or

551
01:52:05.685 --> 01:52:15.228
something, or some photographs of a typical door that they would put on the court street side, not bring the whole thing back. But I just I think we're going to be really sorry if we

552
01:52:15.228 --> 01:52:24.337
don't fix that issue, that detail. I'll amend the motion for that. I'll be I think you can approve it. But if he will agree to come back for that

553
01:52:24.337 --> 01:52:36.716
door. But once it's approved, does he have to do it? Well, it depends on how the motion goes. So if you're making a motion to approve, subject to having them

554
01:52:36.716 --> 01:52:48.227
bring back the issue on the doors and have that. Now, here's the question. Are you asking them to bring that back for informational purposes, or are you asking them to bring

555
01:52:48.227 --> 01:52:59.138
that back for your approval approval? So then your motion would be to move to approve everything except that you want the doors to be brought back to

556
01:52:59.138 --> 01:53:10.015
you with a change. Right? Right. And I'm only talking about the the roll up door on the roll up door. One door, one door. So

557
01:53:10.015 --> 01:53:21.895
that the motion would need to be amended to have that okay. Terminology that someone will. Second. Okay. So repeat what you what your motion is. I

558
01:53:21.895 --> 01:53:31.870
think I have to do a. I think we need a motion for an amendment. We need to vote on the amendment before we vote on the motion. Is that correct? Mr. Saltzman, if you want to follow Robert's rules, the

559
01:53:31.870 --> 01:53:43.482
answer is yes. Yes. All right. I'll. Make a motion. No, keep your motion. I'm going to suggest an amendment to the motion that the applicant brings back an alternative for

560
01:53:43.482 --> 01:53:53.860
the roll up door on Court Street. For our review and approval. Do we have a second on the amendment? Second, then you would vote first on the

561
01:53:53.860 --> 01:54:02.502
amendment and then on the motion. So first, we're voting just on the amendment. Yes.

562
01:54:02.502 --> 01:54:16.582
Correct. Okay. So again, yes would be that we're agreeing to having we're we're accepting

563
01:54:16.582 --> 01:54:27.427
the design except for the back roll up door, and they're going to be bringing that back to us for approval. That's what we're voting on first. We're voting

564
01:54:27.427 --> 01:54:36.736
on correct. Bringing back just the just the door issue, just the door, the amendment. Then you will vote. If assuming that's approved, then you'll vote on the whole, the whole

565
01:54:36.736 --> 01:54:47.146
thing, right? Okay, everybody understand that? Okay, good. Let's vote. Miss produce. Yes.

566
01:54:47.146 --> 01:54:55.388
Mr. Yes. Mr. Cadena. Yes. Miss. Kaplan. Yes. Chairperson. Rasinski. Yes. Now, you would

567
01:54:55.388 --> 01:55:12.705
vote on the motion as amended. Okay. So, Chloe, do you want to tell us what we're voting on? Okay, so now you guys just you

568
01:55:12.705 --> 01:55:23.182
voted for the amendment, which was to bring in the roll up door facing Court Street with alternative materials and providing the spec sheet. The

569
01:55:23.182 --> 01:55:35.395
original motion had it to be approved, provided that the the historic marble name and date block shall be incorporated into the construction and archway shall also be

570
01:55:35.395 --> 01:55:46.906
incorporated in the design of the new courtyard, and then the Certificate of appropriateness will expire in three years. I don't I don't believe the date

571
01:55:46.906 --> 01:55:59.918
sign or the. I think I think they've already said that they're going to incorporate the block, but that wasn't part of the original. It wasn't part of her motion. But that's what they're saying they're going to do. I personally don't want an

572
01:55:59.918 --> 01:56:11.430
archway. I don't I think that was not the right thing. Right. And that's Chloe that in your motion. Okay. You did or didn't you. You did not. No, no, I didn't say anything about it.

573
01:56:11.430 --> 01:56:22.909
Right. Well, how's everybody else feel about those two issues? I'd like to go by what that original motion was to motion was to approve. Except

574
01:56:22.909 --> 01:56:34.420
for the door for the roll up door. Right. Okay. There was nothing about archways or date blocks. I'm just stating what the original approval was from Miss Lanford, which was the

575
01:56:34.420 --> 01:56:45.397
approval. And I understand that. But that wasn't part that wasn't the motion. Those were suggestions by Carolyn. Do you want the block in it? We amend it. I think it would be fun to

576
01:56:45.397 --> 01:56:55.808
have that somewhere. Okay. I don't know that that has to be part of the motion. Well, yes you can. I mean, you could say somewhere, I don't want to tell them where to put it. If

577
01:56:55.808 --> 01:57:07.553
they're having a display somewhere, maybe it'll maybe it could be incorporated into the. The courtyard somewhere. I will

578
01:57:07.553 --> 01:57:18.030
amend the motion that the block be incorporated into the building, either in the front or the courtyard at their

579
01:57:18.030 --> 01:57:31.310
discretion. And nothing about archways. We're not doing archways. Okay. Unless you want that to be part of your motion.

580
01:57:31.310 --> 01:57:42.121
Do we have a second to the amended motion? I'll second it. Okay, so we have an amended motion of the original and the

581
01:57:42.121 --> 01:57:53.299
one and the amendment that was previously voted. It can be voted all as one at this point, because the original was was the original motion was amended

582
01:57:53.299 --> 01:58:02.308
and seconded. Correct. Any other way of doing it. And it had nothing to do with archways? No. All right. Just as discussed. Right. It was

583
01:58:02.308 --> 01:58:14.854
discussed, that's all. Okay. So. What we're voting on is approval with the stipulation

584
01:58:14.854 --> 01:58:25.231
of the roll up door coming back to us and incorporating the date block, for lack of a

585
01:58:25.231 --> 01:58:40.112
better word, somewhere, somewhere. Okay, let's vote. Miss produce. Yes, Mr. pony. No.

586
01:58:40.112 --> 01:58:51.557
Mr. Cadena. Yes. Miss Kaplan. Yes, miss. Chairperson. Mrozinski. Yes. Okay, so you understand what we just voted

587
01:58:51.557 --> 01:59:04.904
on. Okay, great. Great presentation. Thank you so much. Carolyn. When can we have them back for the door? I mean, if

588
01:59:04.904 --> 01:59:12.144
we're just looking at the door, if you can get me something very quickly, like within a few days, we could we could come

589
01:59:12.144 --> 01:59:24.657
back in August. So we just. Approved. We have to. Do you have a conditional certificate of appropriateness that I will

590
01:59:24.657 --> 01:59:40.906
send you to tomorrow? You know, I. Discussion outside this building. Yeah. I'm sorry. This

591
01:59:40.906 --> 01:59:51.684
discussion you need to have outside of our board meeting. Absolutely. I'm a little I'm a little concerned about one thing I know we asked them to bring back the door and I understand that. But since we

592
01:59:51.684 --> 02:00:02.161
didn't continue it to that issue to a date, certain they're going to have to re-advertise that issue. Is that right? No, no. Okay. I mean, I just want to I want that's different than rehearing

593
02:00:02.161 --> 02:00:13.339
it. This is just a matter that based on your motion, you said to bring back you didn't say when. So we don't have to re-advertise that issue. Okay. I just want to make sure that they're not hampered by that

594
02:00:13.339 --> 02:00:24.216
time frame. They can whenever they can get it in and get it on the agenda, then it can be heard. Okay. Got it. Okay. I'll need to discuss this outside the purview of our meeting. All

595
02:00:24.216 --> 02:00:35.995
right. Let's move on. Number six, board and staff comments, staff. Any more comments about anything tonight? No, I do not. Okay. What about the board? Yes.

596
02:00:35.995 --> 02:00:47.239
I want to make a comment, please. I was away on Sunday. I was inundated with five phone calls. I want people to know

597
02:00:47.239 --> 02:00:59.051
who are watching this. I don't discuss anything with the commissioners. I don't discuss anything that's coming up with the chairman. If I have

598
02:00:59.051 --> 02:01:09.795
information, I can call the attorney or go to planning and zoning, and I will not tell people how I'm going to vote on an issue. And I didn't like

599
02:01:09.795 --> 02:01:20.272
being accused of that because while I was mayor, commissioner and on boards and the city, never have I ever violated the

600
02:01:20.272 --> 02:01:31.050
law. And I will not do it. So people do not have to call me and ask Mrs. Protas how she's going to vote, or what does she think of the plans of the city?

601
02:01:31.050 --> 02:01:39.325
It's wrong to do that to individuals who sit on this board. We volunteer to get the best for our community that we

602
02:01:39.325 --> 02:01:51.904
can. And I'd like to know, Mr. Chairman, to the fall or something. We need to have a work session. Signs that come

603
02:01:51.904 --> 02:02:03.215
in the historic district. They need us to be a certain design, not modern people who want to build carports or garages have to realize you can't put up

604
02:02:03.215 --> 02:02:14.627
four poles and put a tarpaulin over it or something, and we have to I went through. A community over the weekend,

605
02:02:14.627 --> 02:02:25.771
small town, and they have really worked hard on their historic preservation. The sign sign that says we are a historic preservation community

606
02:02:25.771 --> 02:02:37.650
and we live and work behind it. People need to realize when you're buying a historic district in as large as it is, you're going to have to abide by the rules. And I know the

607
02:02:37.650 --> 02:02:47.726
Planning and Zoning board has a lot of work to do, but I think we need to revise a lot of the rules that we have and add some to support to preserve our

608
02:02:47.726 --> 02:02:59.638
community and keep. We have talked about when when this when we're not as busy with this committee with

609
02:02:59.638 --> 02:03:09.348
applications, we did talk about having some sort of work group, and we'll still do that for sure. To be very hard because we're losing little by little

610
02:03:09.348 --> 02:03:20.559
and you can't get it back. And I trust our attorney to tell us whether it's legal or not. So you can have a workshop we'll work on, on preparing a date.

611
02:03:20.559 --> 02:03:32.137
Okay. Absolutely. Sometime in the fall. Yeah. I mean, if there it would be nice if we actually had we could just do it on your meeting night. And if we don't have anything else

612
02:03:32.137 --> 02:03:42.915
on the agenda, or if it's something really quick to let us look at that too. And we should all we should give suggestions from everybody and the public how they feel

613
02:03:42.915 --> 02:03:53.959
preservation. You know, some of them I know we won't even have to discuss because it'll be ridiculous, but we're we're just losing too much in tarpon.

614
02:03:53.959 --> 02:04:06.605
Mr. Chairman. Yes, Miss Lanford, I struggle not just this meeting, but other meetings in finding the materials called out. It's sometimes it's such

615
02:04:06.605 --> 02:04:17.583
small font. It's really hard to find that I've gone and printed, you know, 11 by 17 copies. So you just encourage the applicants to, you know, make it as clear as they can, like

616
02:04:17.583 --> 02:04:28.026
us. Like the sign until late this afternoon, I didn't see that that sign was an aluminum box. I mean, and it was there. I will say the data was there, but it was really hard to find.

617
02:04:28.026 --> 02:04:38.637
So whatever you can do to encourage the applicants to, you know, put their best foot forward and make it really clear what they're proposing. I mean, the boils aluminum, I figured out by the name that it

618
02:04:38.637 --> 02:04:49.981
was an aluminum carport, but it was a little tricky on the sign to figure it out. Some of the ones on the registry was a little tricky to figure out because the font was so, so small. They called them out,

619
02:04:49.981 --> 02:05:01.327
but it was really tricky to to match up the number to where it is on the building. So I know you, you don't get always perfect applications, but please encourage the applicants. It's, it's, it's in their best

620
02:05:01.327 --> 02:05:11.604
interest to call out their materials. Clearly what kind of materials using on every part of the application. So whatever you can do to encourage them, you can tell them that the

621
02:05:11.604 --> 02:05:22.748
board said so. I hate to I'm not trying to put you on the spot because I know you get you get what you get, but I get what I get and I, I, I share your concerns. And I think at

622
02:05:22.748 --> 02:05:34.426
some point, if, if an application is incomplete, it's not fair to us and it's not fair to the general public to, you know, you've got cases sitting behind it. You've we had we've had a case where the application was completely

623
02:05:34.426 --> 02:05:45.069
incomplete, like the very first case we had today. She brings in a new application tonight. So I mean, we did the right thing on that. We continued it. And she can bring in whatever

624
02:05:45.069 --> 02:05:54.612
new projects she wants for the silence. So please don't take it as it's not a criticism of the staff, it's just impress upon the applicants that your board is looking for the all

625
02:05:54.612 --> 02:06:06.825
the details and the materials for us to make an intelligent decision. Okay. Thank you. I

626
02:06:06.825 --> 02:06:16.902
just wanted to say something real quick to maybe it's more about my style of chairing. Not

627
02:06:16.902 --> 02:06:27.680
everybody knows Robert's rules. I get mixed up myself sometimes, but what I'd like to think is

628
02:06:27.680 --> 02:06:38.524
that we are here. First for the city and for the district. But I'd also like to think we're

629
02:06:38.524 --> 02:06:49.635
here for the applicants. We want to treat them fairly. We want to give them every, every

630
02:06:49.635 --> 02:07:04.416
chance that we can to comply. And anything we can do to help them to do that, I think, is a plus. I want everyone to

631
02:07:04.416 --> 02:07:16.295
understand what we've done, how we've done it, why we've done it. I will sometimes go off.

632
02:07:16.295 --> 02:07:28.574
And let somebody talk, even though we've already decided the case. I felt it was important to make sure that I

633
02:07:28.574 --> 02:07:39.318
understood what we did here. I think it was fair to them. Okay, so I don't always do everything exactly to Robert's rules, but

634
02:07:39.318 --> 02:07:51.230
I'd like to think that I, for the most part, do. And I just wanted to mention that that that's just sort of my style. And I'm going to mention to you when, when I think from a legal

635
02:07:51.230 --> 02:08:02.206
standpoint, you're going, they're going too far afield. It's not you all. Yeah. But I allow certain comments, but I allowed it. Right, right. Okay. So and I'll just I'll interrupt

636
02:08:02.206 --> 02:08:13.318
as I would with the Board of commission if I think something because remember, they could come back before you. Right. And so we we want to allow them to, you know, we don't want to

637
02:08:13.318 --> 02:08:24.363
do anything that they would say, oh, you've already made a decision. Anything else I'm going to bring back before you? I would like to be careful on that. Sure. But I'd like people if we've denied someone, I, I

638
02:08:24.363 --> 02:08:36.675
don't want it to be completely negative. I want to try to keep it a little more positive and let them know that they have that they can still come back

639
02:08:36.675 --> 02:08:48.053
to us. Things that come before you that you're just going to say, yeah, that's never going to happen. I mean, I think that's fair to sure, because you don't want somebody to have to keep applying and they're

640
02:08:48.053 --> 02:08:58.030
Never going to. It's not going to happen. Well, I think what happened on that particular one, and I think what you did was perfectly fine, Mr. Chairman. I probably shouldn't have jumped in, and I apologize for that. I

641
02:08:58.030 --> 02:09:09.875
think those two applicants, the husband and wife owners, they didn't get a chance to speak at the microphone for whatever reason. And so they wanted to vent a little. And, you know, I understand, I mean, I get it. I

642
02:09:09.875 --> 02:09:20.285
think we were trying to help them, tell them what they needed to do to fix it, but I don't think they were. I don't think they heard at all. But that's, you know, they, you know, Miss Lanford can talk to

643
02:09:20.285 --> 02:09:31.096
them when they come back and they have something else she can, you know, be pretty clear. I think we were all pretty clear as a board what we thought were the problems. And and they can come back with a

644
02:09:31.096 --> 02:09:41.139
new application that addresses those. So we'd be open to, you know, a new application. Okay. I'm sorry, Mr. Lanford, besides the one case that we continue

645
02:09:41.139 --> 02:09:51.683
tonight for the sign, do you are there other applications for August? I'm trying to plan a few days out of town. Yes, we do have other applications for August. At least one. I think

646
02:09:51.683 --> 02:10:03.862
we may have two already. Two plus the one that we continue to sign that we continued. Yes, I think so. Okay. Thank you. Okay, okay. Any other comments

647
02:10:03.862 --> 02:10:12.437
by the board here or Carolyn? No. Okay. It is 832. We are

648
02:10:12.437 --> 02:10:36.094
adjourned. Thank you. Chloe. And thank you, everyone.