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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=Uwrg8Z8H3gg

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6:30 p.m. I would like to call to order the June 15th meeting of the City of Tarpon Springs Planning and Zoning Board. This

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is a quasi judicial hearing, and our attorney representative will explain the quasi judicial portion. Good evening. This is

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a quasi judicial proceeding where the board acts in a quasi judicial rather than a legislative capacity at a quasi judicial hearing. It is not the board's function to make law,

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but rather to apply law that has already been established in a quasi judicial hearing. The board is required by law to make findings of fact based upon the evidence presented at

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the hearing, and apply those findings of fact to previously established criteria contained in the Code of Ordinances in order to make a legal decision regarding the application before it, the board may only

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consider at this hearing the law. Consider the evidence that the law considers competent, substantial, and relevant to the issues. If the competent, substantial and relevant evidence at the hearing demonstrates that the applicant

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has met the criteria established in the Code of Ordinances, then the board is required by law to find in favor of the applicant. By the same token, if the competent, substantial and relevant evidence at the hearing

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demonstrates that the applicant has failed to meet the criteria established in the Code of Ordinance, then the board is required by law to find against the applicant, and at this time

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I'd ask the board if there's been any ex parte communications that need to be disclosed. No. Seeing none, I will proceed to swearing in the

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witnesses. Would anybody who wishes to speak tonight please stand and raise your right hand to be sworn in? Do you swear or affirm that your testimony in

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these proceedings this evening will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Thank you. In my haste,

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I got just a tad bit of order, but that was a very important that we took care of that. Thank you. So we're going to step back just a step, and

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we're going to go with a roll call please. Vice Chair Vessey here. Mr. Rocklin here, miss

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early here, Mr. Collins here, Mr. Morris here, miss Wade here, absent Miss Swenson and chairperson Curtis. And now

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we're going to have our Pledge of Allegiance. Pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to

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the Republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Mr. Rocklin,

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if you wanted to remain standing, we'll have a moment of reflection. I think even though Thanksgiving generally

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falls in November, that we have to reflect and give thanks for all of us in the city that we live in and work in and enjoy.

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We have a lot of diversity here. We have a lot of involved people. We have plans going forward that always seem

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considerably more positive than negative, and we have to thank our higher power, our creator, our God, for that. And we have to thank each other to some degree because it does take a

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team. There's no one individual that runs the show. It's a very Democratic board, very democratic city. There's a lot of exchange of ideas, a lot of

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banter, a lot of disagreement from times to times. But we always wind up on our feet and moving forward. And I just want to say that I, for one, my wife

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and I think the majority of the community is very thankful for that. Thanks. Since we had our.

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Since we've had our quasi judicial announcement and spring of speakers, I did want to just do a clean up of.

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Everybody's got this posted, but just for those in attendance, and I would like to say thank you for everyone coming. It's been a little bit quiet in the last few meetings.

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These are meeting procedure reminders. Please speak in the microphone at all times. Sometimes they get turned off. We're not supposed to have any

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side conversations during the conduct of the meeting. And ask the chair for a break if we need one, and then evidently

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that the staff remind the board during the meeting of the instructions to preserve the integrity of the meeting. Okay.

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Well, then, as I buy some time to get our agenda, I think we are on to our first item of

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business. Go ahead, staff, Miss Mcniece. Okay, thank you. Pat Mcniece, planning supervisor. Your first item this evening is

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a request for site plan modification from Co Hatch of Tarpon Springs. And this is a

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request to modify the site plan approval resolution for this project. The project was

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approved under resolution 2020 242, and it had a series of conditions on it. The request is to remove one of those

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conditions. That's condition number seven. The applicant was required to provide parking for the additional square footage

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of floor area for this project, which they did. And the provision stated that the

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parking be provided until a city sponsored solution was was developed, or until a parking study showed that there was no

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need for the additional parking. The Board of Commissioners did consider a parking study. The city put out a request for

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proposals, and the board rejected the four respondents to that RFP, and they didn't take any additional action. In

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the meantime, the city has expanded parking downtown in in this area, and both parking and enhanced opportunity for

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parking. There's a list of actions. And initiatives the city has provided since that

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since the project was approved. And just as a reminder, the T5B transect that this project is located in, in your special

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area plan does not require applicants to provide parking where there is parking available within a five minute

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walk. Staff has looked at this. We feel that the condition has been met. The city sponsored solutions have been and

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continue to be identified and implemented, so staff is recommending that the board

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approve resolution 2026-22. That would be to remove condition seven from site plan

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approval resolution 2022-42. Are there any questions? In the spirit of organization will

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start at our left for questions for staff, I have no questions. Thank you. I have no questions

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at this time. I'm not looking at the prior. Motion that we

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sustained, but that was a. So please speak up. Do you want me to bring it down? Okay. All

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right. Did we put it that way? I'm trying to recall and I don't have my notes in front of me. Did we put it that way? It was just merely conditional and

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likely to be revoked. Number seven. I'm not sure what you're asking. This is not a conditional use. It's a site plan. It was originally a site

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plan. This would be a modification of the site plan. The condition was added by the Board of Commissioners to the original resolution. Right. The

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condition was added by the the commissioners. So tonight you're asking us to do away with that condition? Yes, we we

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are asking that it be removed because it's no longer needed.

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Okay. Thank you. No questions, no questions. Ready for a

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motion? No. Miss Mcniece, just so I understand. What precipitated the necessity of

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this particular meeting at this time, was there a date? Was there a mechanism that was installed at the original site plan and this needed to be

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cleaned up? How how did this the the request of the applicant. And they did provide an extensive narrative letter that is in your packet that

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that's what precipitated the. The request was they applied for site plan modification. Thank you. And then if you have

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in your notes and I just read the request. How do you have a copy and can you read specifically what the condition

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was that was placed on the site plan approval? Yes. And that resolution is in your packet. The condition read coach shall

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provide for parking associated with building an additional 6750ft■!S. This additional parking shall be required until

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such time that a city sponsored parking solution is implemented, or a formal parking status study indicates that the additional parking is not

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needed. Super. And is there any chance you could put that on the screen? Do you have that on the screen? No, I don't mean to be too difficult. I just was

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just curious so that everyone could read that. Or I mean,

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it's not just for me. It would be for anybody that's present. Let me see if I can zoom in. And so if I may be so bold, I'm

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going to just give a side note. Is that this particular issue, for those that weren't present, then this was a very important and highly discussed and

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debated portion of the site plan applicant for the whole project. And of course, parking is a premium. And at that point

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there was great concern about that. Okay. So all right. So there it is again. And then it was in it's in everybody's

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package. Coach Kohat shall provide. Okay. Super. So if I can drill into this just for a second, I'll ask two questions.

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There will be one, but it's two parts. Has the city sponsored a parking solution? Yes. The

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city's added parking spaces, as mentioned in your memo, since that time, the city has added the parking spaces. Yes, under under lease. We've initiated

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two hour parking in the 100 block of East Tarpon. So that provides for turnover and greater availability of parking.

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We've installed banners at all downtown lots that note free parking. We've installed directional signs and developed

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a walking walking map that shows where the parking is. There is an additional memo from our economic Development manager in your packet that

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lists all the parking. That is, some leased or is owned by the

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city, and there is a map of where that parking is. Okay. I

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just have one more question and it's going to be redundant. But it's important because I was here at those meetings, banners

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aside and crosswalks aside, and I know that the staff has approved, but I think it's really, really important at

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this time. That the city feels that it has implemented a parking solution to the lack of

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parking that Co hatch was required to supply, but has not. This is a really clear statement. Cohort shall. And unless the city will. And has

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done. And so staff is going to say. And the city is going to agree that because I know what you're talking about, those spaces, those were existing

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prior to Co hatch. We haven't created any new parking spaces. We we. Seven yeah sorry I and thank you for helping me here, but I would like to hear staff

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say we've created new parking spaces since the leases existed. Yes, we've we've added leases co hatch was was required by that condition to provide 18

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spaces. We've added more than 18 spaces leased by the city. We have created some new parking spaces on Tarpon Avenue through a modification of the

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bump outs. The rest is outlined in that memo, which I can pull up if you want to go through each one. No, I, I trust you, okay. And, and I, and I did try

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to read it earlier, but I just couldn't get it all. Okay. I just, it, it was very important at that time. I think it's still very important at this time. And I'm kind of putting my flag in the sand because it

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appears, because I drive that road every single day and it's full all the time, and I'm hesitant. This is not part of

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the program. This would be more discussion. I this is a get it out, get out of jail free card that we're about to give away. And it's a very important one because that was part of the

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condition then. And now it seems that maybe something has changed. I didn't personally see that change. I didn't see any new parking spaces created. I feel like there's a little bit of a shell game going on,

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but staff feels in the city feels that way. Okay, no more questions. Okay? Any applicant is here if you want to. And I

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think this at this time, if staff is done, then we'd be ready for any presentation by the applicant. If they fail to

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do so. My name is Cody Bracey, community manager at Co Hatch. I just want to thank you for your time tonight. Tonight is

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the culmination of what for us has been a couple of months worth of conversation, trying to figure out a new solution for us as we continue to try to

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serve Tarpon Springs and be a part of the community here. One of the things that we have found is that the condition in which we agreed to, and just to

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just to recant or just to recall that conversation in 2023, what I heard over and over again, and I deeply respect a lot of the comments

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that were made there. It was not a personal attack about Co hatch whatsoever. It was an issue about parking. And I think coach found its way in the middle of people being

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frustrated about parking and the lack thereof, and they found their way in a project that we needed to solve two problems at the same time. How do we get co hatch approved and

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how do we get and create more parking? That was in 2023, January of 2023. In that in that time, we have not only

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made Co Hatch a place that hopefully serves as much of Tarpon Springs as we possibly can, but all of our members activate and are part of Co

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Hatch. Daily parking has not been an issue for them. We have found additional parking that is a lease that comes out of

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our monthly as a $500 lease a month. It has never been used. We would be glad for our people to use it, but they have said

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that they don't need to. Once again, whether or not Tarpon Springs has adequate parking. That is such a debate that even in 2023 was a part of the

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debate. And that is not something I want to argue or fight today. What I want to say and what co hatch on behalf of Co Hatch. What I'd like to say is the 18 additional spots that

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we provided in a period of time that we were trusting the city and had the promise of the city as we gave the promise that we would be proactive in looking

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and searching for new solutions. In 2026, we feel like 18 additional spaces have been provided. That was not our opinion. That was something that we asked based on a

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request of our team saying, looking at our budget, budgets are tight for everyone right now. We're looking at our budget going, there's 500 extra dollars that we're spending every month. Not utilizing it

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whatsoever. Is this something the city feels like we're ready to do? And that's why we're here today. So I appreciate your time. I'll answer any questions that you might have.

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But in regards to us and co hatch. We'll continue to do what's best for the city, not based on just what we believe but what we're told. But we

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would love this portion to go back into our budget so it can go back out to the community.

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Thank you. I need to say yes. I what is your name? My name is Cody Bracey. Hi, Cody. If you didn't mind just waiting just

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for a minute. So now any board member could ask you some questions and it appears she's ready to go. Go ahead. Well,

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it's not a question. I just wanted to advise the board. Whoops. Okay. So that at this moment we're just questions for the applicant. All right. I was

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just seizing the little break to to talk about a conflict I had. But go ahead. I think we're going to I think we're going to need to hear about the

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conflict. I agree yes. Before everyone arrested okay. It's not a big thing, but I, I do want the board to know I know

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Cody, I would see him all the time. And I say that we don't hang out socially or anything like that. We're not related. But I would see him all the

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time because the Women's Club of Tarpon Springs would use Co hatch. He allowed us to use coach for our meetings. So that's really all there is to

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it. We were very nice to each other. I would see him and he'd say, hi, how are you doing? And back and forth. That would be the extent of our relationship.

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Is that correct? That's correct. Okay. Council. I don't believe

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so. Council. And I'm sorry, sir, this is just a this is just a board discussion. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Did you did you pay

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for the space when you used coach, did I or did did your organization or whoever you were with pay the standard rate? Cody will have to correct me if

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I'm wrong, but I think he allowed us because of our funds and our 501 C three to start out for no cost. We started out for no cost. So yeah, that is a

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benefit to the club. But then I think we started paying. I'm not sure I can answer. Go ahead. Yeah. So coach has a system

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that any nonprofit, any 501 C three that's doing good in the neighborhood. We allow scholarship in form of a discounted subsidized monthly.

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So for example, any nonprofit has that access with that access. Also, we have provided the women's club because their basic need wasn't necessarily using co-working space. It was

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to use the the larger meeting room that we have for their meetings. So we allowed them to use that once a month. Still do, still will. But that that is

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something that we would do for anyone, not just because they were or weren't on a part of a team in Tarpon Springs. What was the timeline of the

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meetings that you would have at coach once a month, from what month and year to what month and year? I can answer that.

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2020, 2025 beginning of 2025. Till present. Thank you. And when did when did you become

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aware that she was on the board? Sir? Today. Okay. Okay. I'm

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thinking if it's how how did you did you lead the club's initiative to reserve that space? Did I read the club's.

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Did you. Did you who? It sounds like there was several ladies that went together. Is that correct? Probably ten. 12. Okay. Were you in charge of setting that up or was it somebody else?

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No, that would have been the president. Okay. So you had no involvement in picking coach or any of. No, no. Okay. Okay.

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Because it's publicly it's a service or a opportunity publicly available because she wasn't involved in picking

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coach, acquiring coach. No other benefit that would be different than anybody of the public would have received. I,

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I'm believing well that it's not an abstaining conflict. Are you do you believe that you can be fair and impartial, ma'am? Absolutely, absolutely. I would

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say I would say, based on the testimony that we we can proceed, sir. And I'm going to express the same kind of conflict because they offer this space to a lot of

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nonprofits, which a lot of us belong to. So Tarpon Community Council also meets there. I haven't been this year, I haven't been able to attend, but in past years I attended. I

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didn't book it. I didn't pay for it. We didn't get anything out of it, except they offer this space to everybody that's a nonprofit. Same issue. I could still feel like I and

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you'd be able to be objective about it. And sir, when did you become aware of this young lady being on the board? Miss Wade?

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Miss Wade being on this board? Yes, sir. Today. Okay. I think as miss Wade, same same situation based based on the

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examination, I think there's no no conflict there. It sounds like there may have been somebody else that wanted to speak on that issue or another another conflict. Yeah. I was

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actually a member of coach from 2024 to 2025. I left nothing against Cody. I just worked out of my home office more than anything. I was also in a downtown district

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organizational meeting there. It's a nonprofit, and I'm also a member of the the Tarpon Springs Area Historical Society. So as you can see, there are

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many community opportunities here with which coach is helping and we're involved in them. So and you and you as well, do you feel you can be fair and impartial based on

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your prior relationship? Yeah, yeah. Again, it was nothing against Cody or his organization. I just left because I was working from home more than anything. Understood? Understood. Any remaining board

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members that have any issues? Okay. I, I think based on what we've heard, that we're okay to proceed. Each board members declare themselves able to be

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fair and impartial. I'm comfortable with us going forward. I was going to volunteer that. If if anybody feels uncomfortable and thinks that I could not be fair, I'd

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be glad to recuse. But I truly believe I can. Agree. Thank you. Counsel will continue forward with the full board, with no

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one abstaining. Excellent. Does anyone have any questions for. Yeah. Cody, the the the representative from Coach Cody.

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I have a question real quick. So I, I've seen a lot of development since there was a meeting in here and there's a lot of heated argument over parking was probably, I agree,

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one of the most critical decision makers for people on which end of the spectrum they were going to be on in the decision of having coach implemented in our community.

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My question is, I see a lot of things with other businesses thriving. I see you bring the community together. The longest table, for example. That was incredible to see. You're going

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to be saving 500 bucks. Apparently, if if number seven falls off here, right? Is it safe to assume that you'll reinvest that into your

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business and or the community? So one really great thing about what I get to do is I get to use our space, our square

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footage, our meeting rooms to serve our community the best way possible with what we have a few limitations to my role presently, is that I do not get to state where every single

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line, item and budget piece goes. What I know about the character of the company I work for is that that is 100% the goal. Does it. Will it get

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reflected exactly in a person's opinion on what how it should? I can't guarantee that, and I can't guarantee that I will put that budget additionally towards anything outside of

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continuing to make our space and our our members and our nonmembers happy when they come in and also when they leave the way that we serve the community. My individual role as not only

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a community manager, but the way in which I view my role in serving the city. I'm not planning on that doing anything but being helped by tonight's

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decision. If it is decided. Thank you. Any additional questions for the applicant? Go

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ahead, Mr. Roff. Thanks, Mr. for coming tonight, and thank you for letting coach assimilate into the community in the way that I think the

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company was desirous of when you had all your informational meetings and stuff before. I know people fear the unknown to them. It's the end of the world. Ten more cars are going to come

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to town every day. I've seen it in countless communities where I've lived and worked over the four decades that I've been in public service. I didn't see any negative impact to the

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business district because of this, and I travel up and down several times a day, and one of the prior mayors had actually asked me to do an informal survey of availability for

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parking at different times on different days, there is parking. People want to park right in front of where they're going. That's human nature. God forbid somebody has to walk a block. Some people are

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handicapped, some people are encumbered. That's that's a separate issue. But I think pretty much there has not been any negative impact that I can

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perceive on the downtown community district or Tarpon as a whole. My question is, when they caused you to lease those additional spots, where was

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that? Was that in one of these areas? Now that is this church? Yeah. So that was part of the the big picture here. And it

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was deemed to be unnecessary by your attendees and your customers. Yes. And declare to clarify, to make sure that it

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that the revisionist history isn't muddied. What we wanted to do is provide additional spaces, knowing that there had been community tension around.

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We need better parking solutions. This is going to hurt. We don't want to be a part of the hurt. We want to be a part of the help. So this wasn't something that was forced upon us. This was

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something that we worked in collaboration. My my CEO asked the question how many additional spaces would suffice? It was came 18 spots was what

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was come up with in that moment. That was all along the premise that solutions would take place. It is in your judgment and the city's judgment on whether those things have taken place

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or not. We're not going to argue that. We've just asked that question. What's been answered to us is, yes, we think those 18 spots have been

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sufficient. So in regards to our role in the community, in regards to my role as a as a person that cares deeply about Tarpon, I'm not saying that we've solved parking problems

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in Tarpon Springs. I'm saying that solutions have been made in order for us not to have to cover those 18 spaces. Thank

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you. Staff at clarification. Just because I think I, I think I heard someone say that the parking you leased was on the

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map, that they have it. It's not it was on south of us. Okay. Just want to make sure. Did did.

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I'm sorry, could you repeat that? I was having a hard time. I'm sorry. Okay. The parking lot leased, and Cody can

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confirm this if I'm wrong, is on the east side of South Lewis Avenue. Okay, okay. One other thing I'd add. I don't know if it's necessary to tonight, but

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one of the things that we tell every member that comes in for the first time or is starting their membership with us, we tell them that there's one rule in regards to parking downtown

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outside of letting them know where our lot is, that if they ever struggle to find parking, they can always park here. The second thing is that we always tell them they're not allowed to park on the street, and

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that's something that's very important to us because we tell everybody who's a member here, we want you to feel like this isn't a place that you just come. This is a place that you belong to. If you are working downtown, if you have an

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address downtown, you need to act like a downtown business owner. And so we do not park on the streets. That's a rule. It's also something that it's just a rule. I can't enforce it.

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I have no law jurisdiction. It's something that I've gotten a few arguments with some of my members about. And they no longer park downtown. At least

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they better not. Anyway, we are trying to be as proactive as we can on our end as well. Thank you. Are there any additional

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questions, any more staff comments? No. Thank you. Super. Okay. So thank you very much for your presentation. Are

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there any public comments? In regards to this application? Please state your name and address before you start. Thank

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you. Yes, Vasily Farkas 139 East Tarpon Avenue. We own the building and the businesses adjacent to coach, and we have a great relationship. First, I

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want to say we have a great relationship with Cody and Coach and and we welcome all new businesses. I'm probably, you know, one of the most

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pro-business persons around here. The. When we brought up and and in all due respect to

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the to the staff, I don't agree with some of the the staff. Comments of the of the

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resolutions. And and again, I'm here I want to be positive. I don't want to be negative. The. There is a parking problem,

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especially for service oriented businesses. And we have a service oriented business. We have a shoe store, we have a shoe repair. We have an orthotic clinic. We see

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handicapped people, we see elite athletes. We see people that are injured. We see all sorts of from all sorts of people from ages and all different ages. We hear all the

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time. In fact, a lady came today and said, I sent an email to to the city about parking. And I, I not saying this

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because of coach or anything anybody else, but things have changed in a downtown area. People more people are working remotely, so people will come

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to coach or to the new coffee shops, which I think are great. I, I, I encourage more business, I want more business downtown, but that means more people are

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staying all day long. So a lot of parking, a lot of your closer parking is being taken up. Yes, they added two hour

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parking on a. I'm not sure if it's 1 or 2 block area. I think it's one block, maybe two, but it's not enforced. And so and

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not that I want all these people getting tickets downtown, but but it's not enforced. And when we talk about we have plenty of parking within a five

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minute walk or I think it's a quarter of a mile that works in cooler areas. That doesn't work so well in humid Florida. When

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people need have an appointment, whether they're coming to me or they're going to the meat market or a hair salon, which we lost one of the hair salons

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downtown, and be it because they moved to an area that has better parking for appointments. This is a concern because we have all different types of

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businesses, and I'm not saying my business should come before anybody else's, but I lost a large contract with one of my

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safety footwear programs because people said, we can't find parking when we come because they come during their workday, and I now have to

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travel to more customers homes and patients homes to see them. So whether the 18 spaces is approved or disapproved, that's

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not going to solve everything. And, and I think and I welcome that it's nice that there's more people downtown. We want that, but more people requires

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more parking. And we've had this conversation with the city. We keep talking about parking garage. Well, that's if we're

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talking about a parking garage, that means we need more parking. And we we have more restaurants coming downtown, which I think all of this is great, but we need to have better solutions.

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And I wish they'd come. You know, whoever it is with our study, with our survey, come and talk to my customers. Come and talk to us. I'm there seven days a week. And I'm not saying

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I have all the answers, but I, I travel, I go to other places and I see other downtowns that have either angled parking like we used to have downtown or

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back in angled parking, which is a new thing. Now. It's apparently it's safer. And with the legend of the parking

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downtown, like it talks about Truist Bank and their spaces, well, that's available after 6 p.m. The, you know, unmarked

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spaces, they're unmarked. And. I just I think we can resolve this together if we work together and look at some solutions. But I don't think we

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need to look at that. There is a there is a problem here. The library. It's it counts parking at the library with the library.

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It clearly says parking for library patrons only. The signs are there and. So that's,

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that's what I mentioned. That's these are my concerns. And like I said. I'm glad these businesses are here. I want to do new things in my business. I

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want to bring more people here. But we got to have parking and we've got to look at a big comprehensive plan, you know, so I'm going off tangent, but

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this is this is serious. And the longer we wait, it's just going to cost more. We may lose some businesses and you know, things happen. Properties get

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bought up. Orange Street is another area where we could have a lot of angled parking. I'm going off tangent, but my,

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my, my concern is to say, and with all due respect to, to the, to the staff, because I think they do a wonderful job. I don't think we've, we've, we

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haven't solved this this problem long term. These are my concerns. Thank you. Thank you,

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Mr. Fox. Appreciate your kind and thoughtful words. It appears we have another gentleman that would like to make public comment. Please state your name and address before your comments. Good

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evening. My name is John Tier Penny, 22, North Spring Boulevard. Chairman, members of the board, city attorney. Staff.

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No one is against coach. It's. It's like Mr. Cody said. It's strictly parking. It's not personalities. It's not the

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business. It's it's parking. So to evaluate it properly, you have to have the proper data. The data the city staff gave you is deeply flawed. It's

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flawed in two ways. It's flawed in the information they gave you, and it's flawed in the information they left out. Okay. Not to be redundant to what Mr.

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Feckless said, but the parking recounting 54 spaces, they said, you have 325 spaces downtown, 54 at the library says you park there. We're going to tell you

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a way. Okay. It's on the sign. I took a picture of it today. The unmarked spaces, 72 unmarked spaces. How many people realistically coming

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from out of town, Trinity, New Port Richey, Palm Harbor are going to park in an unmarked space that they don't know, and it's going to get towed away. I don't I think those 72 need to

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be taken away. Also, the staff left out that in the development agreement with the new proposed mixed retail hotel building, the city committed to

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give them four parking spaces on Court Street. So those are taken out. The Truist Bank, like Vasily said, they're it's right in the staff report.

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They're no good from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. at night. So that comes up to about 125 spaces, which is about just exactly half of what the city staff has put in

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their proposal. The things that are left out are the new mixed use hotel building. What what's going to happen when that comes in? What's going to happen on the old tea house? That's going

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to be an event center that the of the family that bought it is spending significant sums of money to restore and make it an event space. On Orange Street.

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You have the New Mexican restaurant coming in at the corner of court and alternate 19, and then Mr. Kokolakis

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bought the vacant property between Ring and Safford Avenue on, on on Orange Street, just to the east of the trail. So

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you have all of these things coming in. And personally, I, I do agree with the applicant's letter that the spaces that

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they're leasing are useless. So. But that doesn't relieve the city of the obligation to hold them to account, to provide the

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spaces or some, some in some fashion. If those don't work, then what's the what's the solution? There's there's probably a couple solutions.

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One is that the you, you let them out of the the you let them out of the lease contingent upon paying money towards some of the parking lots that the city's already

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having to lease for these things or the better solution, the global solution is anybody that comes in like that, that

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needs additional parking, has to pay into a parking impact fee fund at. You know, I'm not saying full boat of a parking lot it creates to create a

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parking space, but at some number that, you know, 18 times something and that would help. The other thing I think that was misread, misrepresented a

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little bit is in the downtown district, parking is not required for an existing building, but they're not within the existing building. They more than double the size

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of the building. Okay. They put that building was 6000ft■!S. Thy added 6700ft■!S. So that's where the parking requirement came on.

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Any of your site plans that you did downtown around the city? US 19 you would not approve a new construction without parking, without retention, without all the things that are

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required by code. And that's what created the the fervor that Mr. Vessey mentioned that it was it wasn't new business. Listen. My family has been in

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business on Tarpon Avenue for 115 years this year, 1984, I started buying historically correct buildings with Louis Pappas and Fred Howard, Howard Park, Pappas restaurant.

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Architecturally and historically significant buildings. I don't believe that anyone has brought more business to the downtown core, new businesses, to the downtown

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core than myself and my partner. So we're pro-business, but we made a real effort not to do anything that negatively impacted existing businesses.

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And this well, it's a nice business. It's, you know, people enjoy it. It's it's it turned out good. The parking is an issue. It really is an issue.

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And like Mr. Fackler said, you know, are we like schizophrenic or bipolar or what? On one hand, the staff says, oh, parking is great. On the other hand, we

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have this inspire. We're paying $100,000 to have some planning group from out of town come and tell us that we need a 600 place parking, 600 space

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parking lot, parking garage on Court Street between Lemon and Court. Which isn't. So I would

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ask you to defer it, have the data re rerun more accurately, and maybe take some of the suggestions about. If you want to let them out of the lease,

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make them pay. Pay the city, the 500 bucks a month to. Take, take some of the sting out of parking lots. They're leasing around. They're leasing a parking lot behind the old National Bank. They're leasing

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one from the Greek church. It's just a. Or create the parking, you know, defer it and create parking impact fee fund that that not only coach would pay

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into, but other businesses that come in and have a parking deficiency would pay into. Thank you for your time and thank you for your service. Sir.

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I have a question. Not quite yet. Mr. Tarpon. Yes, thank you very much for those wise words. Now, there isn't usually a

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question period for public comment. Just want to make that clear. But at this moment, if you don't mind, board member has a question. Sir, there was

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something that caught my attention. You said the data I received and I was wondering what data you're talking about. The backup material. I'm sorry.

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Your backup material? Oh, from. Okay, I thought material from parking. Thank you. Just our materials. What you're

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referring to. Yes. I'm sorry I didn't hear you. Yes, the answer is yes. He's just referring to the data that staff provided. Okay. Thank you.

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I didn't hear his. Yes. Sorry. Thank you. Additional public comment. Name and address, please. Lack is 514 Ashland

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Avenue. Excellent suggestion about parking impact fee. Would you repeat that, Mister chair? Any suggestion about a parking impact fee, like a concurrency

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fee? Well, just like we have rec fees, library fees, park fees, water utility, hookup fees. Same thing for parking. And you can do that I would

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think most likely within the CRA. So you would start there. I wasn't really planning on speaking on this, but there are a couple of things that I heard that are really important. The

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gentleman from Coach Cody, and I apologize for referring by first name. He said that there were 18 spaces and they're never used. Well, if they're not used by the people that are the coach people, that means

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they're using the the other parking spaces. That's either between faculties building or the court street or down by the Bank of America or the church.

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Well, why isn't there a requirement to have their people specifically park there? Because that's like a safety valve. And it allows for those

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of us who would like to stop at the Acropolis, or if you need to visit any other store downtown to be able to find a space. Usually I end up having to park, maybe down on the

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other side of the court street lot and cut through. But so in essence, at this point, I don't see the necessity of relieving that safety valve. But I do

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agree with the previous comments that. You need to get a definitive parking plan study done before you really move on

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with some of these other things and where that is in its process, I don't know. But as far as this particular item and the particular request, you

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either defer it or deny it and recommend denial to the Board of Commissioners until and you can again put another condition like was in the condition that

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said a specific, valid sealed study survey has been provided to the city to make a determination on this, Mr. Terrapin said, we have to have all the data, not the pick and

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choose pieces. Thank you. Thank you for your presentation. Do we have any additional Public comment, please and thank you. Hi. Good evening. My name is

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Cindy Trapani, 22 North Spring Boulevard. I just wanted to comment and give some of you some background on the parking study that was discarded by the Board of Commissioners. Some of you may have been here and been

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aware of it, I was involved in it, along with my husband and Mr. Farkas and several other multiple other property owners and businesses. When the commission was evaluated, it issued an RFP for parking

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consultant to do a study of the downtown parking. And we all felt collectively that having an outside out of town consultant come in and do a study on an issue that we

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property owners knew more about than they did, was really not a good use of city money. And so what we said to the commission at the time, when they did as the staff said, they did reject the RFP, that all those bids

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and they did not issue an RFP. But the discussion at the time from all of us that were in the audience, all the property owners, is that we would work with the city in a cooperative

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manner and come up with some creative parking solutions. It's not just parking numbers, it's also parking locations. It's also whether or not this

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two hour limit is working or not working. We didn't even haven't even really implemented that fully yet. It's only been there, I think maybe two months. And then there are some

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businesses that have a need for an immediate turnover. Those service businesses, the meat market, Mr. Farkas businesses, a beauty shop, which we don't have anymore because they had were having problems. So that

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was the idea at the time. It wasn't that we would never study it that, okay, we'll just, you know, get rid of the consultant. The idea was to get rid of the consultant doing it and use the talent and the

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experience that we had downtown along with the staff for a variety of reasons, I guess. Change of administration, maybe change of board members, whatever. It never has been done. So we're certainly

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willing. I say we, my husband and I, I believe Mr. Farkas as well, and I imagine many other property owners and business owners would be interested in working on that and coming up with some solutions. We've kind

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of nibbled at it here and there. There's been a few new spaces found on Tarpon Avenue. There's been a couple on court. I mean, it's just been a very ad hoc process rather than a global

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solution. So if you whatever recommendation you make on the application, we would suggest and hope that you would also make a recommendation to the commission that the study is needed. And it can be done with

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the talent and experience that we have in the city. And this property owners would clearly be happy to work with the city staff to to develop that. So thank you very much. Thank you.

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Thank you. Mr. Any additional public comment? Would the city

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staff have any closing items? No, thank you, Miss Mcniece. So normally this is the point at which I would ask for a motion,

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but I'm going to be a little unusual here. And I'm going to do a summary because I feel that I had a wider perspective of the elements that are being

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discussed here, and that perhaps unintentionally, staff did not provide enough background for the seriousness

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of this application and this issue. So I'm going to take liberty to do that, whether it's appropriate or not. I'm going to weigh in first and say it's a rare occasion that I

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would say that staff did not do a terrific job, but I feel that the backup data in regard to parking is misleading and disingenuous. The dates are

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flawed. They don't apply specifically to this, and I frankly would disregard any of that background data as

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disingenuous and was meeting an end. That's my opinion. But the public comment of those that paid close attention would

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support that. In addition, I think that this application hides a greater issue that you've heard from the public

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comment and that it is much more serious than comes across as just a casual, let's just disregard that. Number seven,

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01:04:26.829 --> 01:04:37.440
it was a very serious application. A tremendous amount of thought was put into it, and that by us revisiting something that was done just

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01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:48.751
kind of casually would set a precedent over such a serious topic that it would create maybe a watershed or a tidal

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01:04:48.751 --> 01:04:58.527
wave of, of, of more comments or more applications. Excuse me, the same way. And I think that

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we've heard from the only term I could use as city fathers, those people that have the widest perspective that can be

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applied are saying, hey, pump the brakes. And they're providing great input as to some alternatives. Unfortunately, the young

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01:05:22.651 --> 01:05:30.992
gentleman that's here, who's well liked and they've played their hand well, it's just a little number for them that they want to get off their

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budget line item. But it just happens to sit right at the precipice of something so important to the city of Tarpon Springs that perhaps instead of letting that boulder roll off

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the hill, we use it as a lever to make our commissioners and ourselves do the more important thing, which is address this issue. And unfortunately,

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that's that little lock pin right there. So again, I'm probably over my skis here, but I thought that it was really important that I, as the chair

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temporary for today, try and said some shed some more light and pull back on what I think is a completely flawed request

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and application. With that being said, I'll welcome a motion. Can we make a comment or not? A motion please?

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Chairman, I would like to. Resolution 2026-22. Removal of condition number seven recommend approval. Do we have

317
01:06:40.462 --> 01:06:54.076
a second? I'll second for discussion. I let me say first I really would like to say this

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regarding. We heard from two businesses tonight, feckless and coach and I've been to both

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01:07:04.887 --> 01:07:16.031
businesses. So I really respect them and I really respect what coach has accomplished in our town. I'm I'm just really

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impressed with what they're doing. And. Mr. Vessey, I'm sitting here thinking, you know, this is not. To be honest, I

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was at first sitting here thinking, you know, they've done so well and and, and I haven't noticed any parking changes. And we heard from a

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01:07:39.421 --> 01:07:49.531
fellow zoning board member who hasn't noticed any changes. But once Mr. Vessey spoke, it was I

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got back to reality and it was it is a horrendous problem for downtown. So I really tend to agree with you that that whole

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problem should be addressed and seriously and soon, because of the poor individuals like backless shoe store and coach

325
01:08:11.153 --> 01:08:22.631
and the hair salon that we lost and things of this nature. So I, I agree with what you're saying. Any additional comments from

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the left? We could start all the way at the end and everyone could share their comment. Yes. Thank you. After reviewing the application, first of all. I

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01:08:33.008 --> 01:08:44.653
think we need to this is not a city vote right now. This is about one condition or not. Condition. Yeah. Condition number seven to be removed for one applicant. We're not here

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01:08:44.653 --> 01:08:56.799
to solve the Tarpon Springs parking problem. And we couldn't do it with this one application anyways. So I think I understand the community. I

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01:08:56.799 --> 01:09:08.010
understand what they're saying. But this is this is what's in front of us. And we are here to resolve this one issue. So I would like to lay that out. Second is 18 parking spots.

330
01:09:08.010 --> 01:09:17.186
United Methodist Church. It's twice the distance of any city parking. They're not being used. I would want to get rid of it

331
01:09:17.186 --> 01:09:28.130
to like to to make their applicants park their like. So we're just going to punish one business out of everybody downtown. That makes no sense

332
01:09:28.130 --> 01:09:41.877
to me. No, no other business gets to pay for. I mean, they could pay for parking, but it's like I, I just don't get that. And I understand no one using

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01:09:41.877 --> 01:09:53.422
it because it's twice the distance. And then. I'm going to stop there. But that's my opinion on this. Thank you. Yes.

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01:09:53.422 --> 01:10:03.932
I just want to tread a little bit lightly on not putting a city's problem solely on the shoulders of one business. I do appreciate everybody who came

335
01:10:03.932 --> 01:10:15.311
out and spoke, because I think every one of you have something of value to bring. I especially liked Mr. Trapani's parking impact fee idea. I like Mrs.

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Trapani's idea of no matter how we vote, to attach a recommendation to forward some sort of parking solution board that could be run by the community, that could really address the true problem. I

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01:10:26.455 --> 01:10:38.701
don't think it prudent to stick these 18 spots that nobody is using. That is actually quite a fair distance from coach on coach. I don't think that's

338
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right personally. But if everybody were to use those, we'd all be in much better shape. You know, everybody, if we could park there and have all those steps in. But I think

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01:10:50.579 --> 01:11:01.757
the bigger problem lies in the city's scope of responsibility. So if we could address that, I really like Mrs. Trapani's recommendation of forwarding

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some kind of. Some kind of opportunity for the commissioners to put together or approve some kind of parking solution board, because it is a major problem. We need to

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figure out how to get people in and out. I personally use Acropolis. I park downtown every day. Maybe I'm part of the problem, but but I really

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do think it's it's an issue that I want to see, Mr. Farkas. I want to see him thrive. I want to see him get bigger accounts that can come and see him. So that, I think, is the

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major issue, and I don't think it's going to be resolved by sticking condition number seven on coach. Yes, ma'am, I agree.

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I don't think it's our job to tell the commission what to do. And I don't think that we should punish one business who did comply with what was required for them. I'm sorry,

345
01:11:59.348 --> 01:12:09.057
but we have no evidence that the hair salon left just because of parking. I've never had trouble parking downtown myself. Never. Now, Mr. Farkas

346
01:12:09.057 --> 01:12:21.769
maybe needs two handicapped spots. If. But otherwise, you just have to walk across the street. It's not that far. And if we do an impact fee kind of

347
01:12:21.769 --> 01:12:32.448
thing, this is, again, not in our lane, but it shouldn't be just for new businesses that I thought we were trying to attract businesses. That's just putting up one more barrier for

348
01:12:32.448 --> 01:12:44.359
them. But. With the we're supposed to rule on the evidence that was presented, the evidence that was presented shows that 18 parking spaces

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01:12:44.359 --> 01:12:54.369
plus have been provided, and they have met the condition that was given to them. That's why I support removing that

350
01:12:54.369 --> 01:13:07.749
condition. Thank you. And special thanks for everybody from the community who came out tonight, because you you folks are eyewitnesses to what

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01:13:07.749 --> 01:13:18.861
happens most minutes of most days down there. And you hear the the input from your customers and those that, you know, a long time in the

352
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community. I have to say, I agree that it's not coach's responsibility to solve the city's problem. However, as Mr. Trapani brought up, there's plans for growth in downtown,

353
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and that's wanted and it's warranted. But you need to plan for that. Dunedin just approved a large parking garage, Clearwater even though they're

354
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building their brains out down there, they are providing parking facilities. Even though they took quite a bit away. The condition for coach was, as

355
01:13:52.760 --> 01:14:03.272
somebody mentioned, a safety valve just in case the worst possible thing could happen. But I have to say that between the C, R a and the newly formed

356
01:14:03.272 --> 01:14:13.582
downtown district and stuff some sort of parking study, coalition of residents, business owners, municipal officials and such is is

357
01:14:13.582 --> 01:14:24.092
definitely needed. And just equally as well, we in the planning and zoning Department have been talking about amending the special transect

358
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districts. And one of those current provisions are that you don't need additional parking spaces when there's a change of use or, or things like that.

359
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And that that may not be really the best thing in today's world. So the fact that the two hour parking limit, which the city put and the library parking is

360
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not enforced, that's a problem. And that's something that can be addressed by the police department and such. And I don't know of anybody who has ever been towed from the library and perhaps the library,

361
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with the exception of them having special events, could partition off that one area to the the south east of the lot

362
01:15:08.369 --> 01:15:19.615
to say this is business parking. When there's no special. And they could plaster up a sign. If there is a special event so that there are. There are ways to make it a little better, a

363
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little faster, and also public information to get out to people where they can park. Because like I said, it's human nature to be right in front of whatever. Mr. fracas has a

364
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special condition there for the clientele that he's services, obviously, and getting a couple of handicapped spots dedicated adjacent to his business is something that the city could

365
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facilitate too. So there are things that we can push for going forward. And I'll leave it up to the to the planning and zoning staff and the attorney, whether we can

366
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analyze any of these things in what we're doing here tonight. But I think we all need to be a little more vocal and proactive to the city board to say, this

367
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is not a want, this is a need. And we want the growth that's going to come with it. So we have to prepare for that proactively rather than

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reactively. So I, I tend to agree that it's not Koch's problem per se. And they did what they could at the time in agreement and have worked very

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cooperatively with the city and with their downtown neighbors. So I think we we need to put the weight on the city, whether it's the departments or the

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commission, to start this ball rolling sooner rather than later. Thank you. Do any other

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board members have any additional comments? Okay, so I have a one. At the beginning of

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the meetings, the council usually lays out how quasi judicial rules and it says, hey, based on the facts, we'll make a decision. It's fancier than

373
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that, but that's more or less what it says. So there's some different opinion on on some certain things, but I'll just

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repeat what I think are the facts, which is co hatch willingly accepted number seven

375
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as part of the site plan agreement and said we shall, because of the additional footage that we build and we're taking advantage of, we shall

376
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provide 18 additional spaces. There was a caveat to that. That said, we shall do that until a certain magic thing

377
01:17:56.471 --> 01:18:07.983
happens. It didn't say, we shall do that, and then we can get out of it at a later date when it's convenient. It said, we shall provide. Pardon me

378
01:18:07.983 --> 01:18:21.062
until it's not a discussion. Pardon me. We shall provide 18 additional spaces. I would politely disagree that the city has provided any resolution

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whatsoever, and I will repeat that. I think that the data was presented is flawed and disingenuous. It's my opinion that the Kohat should continue to meet its agreement to

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provide 18 additional spaces, whether they're people or parking there or not. And that

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this board would set a improper precedent by allowing. The applicant to revise and get

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01:18:55.864 --> 01:19:07.442
back on what it agreed to do. And then if this situation is what helps the Board of Commissioners and the rest of the community address this

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problem, so be it. But the facts say they agreed to provide those spaces, and they should provide those spaces.

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And that's my comment position on that. Okay. If I could just go ahead one more additional for something I amended and I apologize. I just want to say that there's been reference

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made to flawed data and flawed presentation by the city staff, and I'm not here to judge that one way or the other. I really want to point out that what we

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see on a map, what we see on paper, even if it has numbers involved with it, often does not translate into the field here. It's the same thing with

387
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building plans and site plans and things like that. Ideally, it should work like like a clock. It often doesn't, but that is not the fault of the staff. Sometimes that's the

388
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fault of the usage, the direction, the infrastructure and such. So I just want to make that distinction that what we see on the map may actually have those numbers. But just as

389
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coaches spaces are those numbers used to their potential. Is there some facilitation to direct people there as, as they said, that there is additional

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signage provided, but you know how many people look at signs when they're looking for spaces? They're looking for a vacant piece of land. That's an excellent point. That being

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said, within the data, the dates were 2018 to 2025. Coach didn't start application until 2023. So there then therefore, if we wanted to get down to

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01:20:48.310 --> 01:20:58.153
brass tacks, the only parking data that should be allowed is anything post agreement, not anything that started before.

393
01:20:58.153 --> 01:21:08.663
No plans that we were thinking of only. So this is really easy. Have 18 new parking spaces been created or any new parking

394
01:21:08.663 --> 01:21:22.243
spaces been created. Post codes. Well, we aren't creating any new land and the answer is no. There have not been. There's been a shell game of what we're

395
01:21:22.243 --> 01:21:33.154
calling them and how we're using them. And it appears to me that there seems to be some bias by certain board members

396
01:21:33.154 --> 01:21:45.300
who use coach. Excuse me, I just said it out loud. It appears to me that there seems to be some personal bias. Pro

397
01:21:45.300 --> 01:21:57.946
coach by board member that admitted that they have taken advantage of coach services. And so I would probably ask

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01:21:57.946 --> 01:22:08.056
politely that you recuse yourself from voting. I'm going to decline that. Okay. I just politely asked, and you can

399
01:22:08.056 --> 01:22:22.169
decline. Any more board comments before we vote. So we have a motion. We have a second. Would anyone like to make any

400
01:22:22.169 --> 01:22:32.147
more comment? We want an adjustment on that motion. No, chairman. Roll call please.

401
01:22:32.147 --> 01:22:44.392
Miss. Excuse me, miss Wade. Yes, Mr. Morris. Yes. Mr. Collins. Yes, miss. Early. Yes. Mr.

402
01:22:44.392 --> 01:22:57.038
Rocklin. Yes. Vice chair. Vessey. No. Motion passes. If I may, I'd like to request a five

403
01:22:57.038 --> 01:23:19.361
minute break. We'll reconvene. And at 53.

404
01:31:24.512 --> 01:31:36.123
556 to call the. Planning and Zoning Board meeting of June 15th. Back to order. Thank you for the break.

405
01:31:36.123 --> 01:31:48.402
I've lost my screen. And so we have our second item agenda item. And we'll start with staff presentation. Okay. Thank

406
01:31:48.402 --> 01:31:59.546
you. The second item is a site plan approval for Mango Street Townhomes. This is located on

407
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the south side of Mango Street, just east of Distant Avenue. This is resolution 2020 623. It's on just about four and a

408
01:32:11.359 --> 01:32:21.836
half acres of property that will include .83 acres of right of way to be vacated. This

409
01:32:21.836 --> 01:32:34.048
involves vacation, partial vacation of a plot along with including the rights of way in that area. This is in a

410
01:32:34.048 --> 01:32:45.960
residential urban future land use category. Residential multi family zoning district. This is again a 32 unit townhome community with infrastructure,

411
01:32:45.960 --> 01:32:55.302
facilities and open space amenities. And the applicant agent, Matt Silverman is here with us this evening. And this

412
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comes to us from HP capital Group. This is the location again, Mango Street, Years Boulevard, of course, becoming Mango Street to the east.

413
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That's at the southeast corner. And it's basically opposite the dead end of South Disston Avenue. Here's an oblique

414
01:33:19.393 --> 01:33:33.174
aerial of the site. You have. This area, the. The wooded area is basically the site to the east is the Eagle Ridge apartment community. That's the

415
01:33:33.174 --> 01:33:43.851
housing authorities apartment community that replaced Mango Circle a few years ago. To the west, you have the yard waste facility and the Duke Energy

416
01:33:43.851 --> 01:33:54.361
corridor there. And then we have a mix of housing in this area, single family apartments,

417
01:33:54.361 --> 01:34:07.374
mobile homes. So this will add. A attached single family product to this area. This is

418
01:34:07.374 --> 01:34:18.486
the zoning and land use. Again the land use is residential, urban inside the blue outline. And this will add a new housing

419
01:34:18.486 --> 01:34:30.765
product to this area. We have the mobile home parks, multifamily apartments, and again the yard waste facility

420
01:34:30.765 --> 01:34:42.276
to the west. This shows the ownership of the property. So on the left hand side that's looking north, that's Mango

421
01:34:42.276 --> 01:34:53.053
Street on the left hand side. And in the green shading is the property that the applicant owns and is involved in this

422
01:34:53.053 --> 01:35:05.633
application. And the kind of yellow orange color is the right of way that will be vacated to accommodate this development. So all of those

423
01:35:05.633 --> 01:35:19.680
platted lots you see highlighted will be basically, plus the right of way will become one parcel. We have

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01:35:19.680 --> 01:35:30.457
single family residences and you can see those here in the oblique area that are west of the project. Those are

425
01:35:30.457 --> 01:35:42.002
separated from the project by an alley that will not be vacated. That's a ten foot alley that's unimproved and would. And then you have some

426
01:35:42.002 --> 01:35:54.181
additional vacant lots. Distant Avenue basically ends with the last single family residence there. It is not extended to the south. So we have some

427
01:35:54.181 --> 01:36:05.759
vacant lots to the south of that. This is the site plan. Just want to point out a few things. Basically you've got

428
01:36:05.759 --> 01:36:16.203
and single road and all the facilities with this project are going to be private. It's not going to be a gated community, but it will be

429
01:36:16.203 --> 01:36:29.550
completely private. Now on this picture, North is on the right hand side. So not to be too confusing, some mango street

430
01:36:29.550 --> 01:36:41.428
there is to your right. That's the entrance road. Going into the community. We have five buildings totaling 32 townhomes.

431
01:36:41.428 --> 01:36:52.206
They are providing a half acre open space, kind of mini park facility and of course, stormwater handling. They have

432
01:36:52.206 --> 01:37:02.349
proposed an alternative plan for their sidewalk, which is to suspend sidewalk here adjacent to Eagle Ridge, where there are

433
01:37:02.349 --> 01:37:14.194
no townhomes, and then provide a crosswalk. Between the north and south sides of the road.

434
01:37:14.194 --> 01:37:27.141
And then there is a property, this lot 16, that is owned by the housing authority. So that that is not involved in this

435
01:37:27.141 --> 01:37:39.386
project. But when Stackelberg Avenue is vacated, they will get half of that vacate, which is 15ft. So that's represented here. I will say there's

436
01:37:39.386 --> 01:37:49.430
probably a foot, maybe a foot and a half or so. This line is off a little bit, and the applicant will need to shift that north just a little bit to

437
01:37:49.430 --> 01:38:01.241
make sure that vacated portion is not encroached on. I think the sidewalk there encroaches on it a little bit. So he's aware of that. That will have

438
01:38:01.241 --> 01:38:10.684
to be done before this vacation is heard. And the site plan is approved. The applicant is also

439
01:38:10.684 --> 01:38:24.331
providing reservation of 17.5ft at the front, north side of the project to accommodate future widening of Mango Street. Your

440
01:38:24.331 --> 01:38:34.441
comprehensive plan calls for an 80 foot right of way for Mango Street. Whether that ever happens is is up for question,

441
01:38:34.441 --> 01:38:43.150
but your comprehensive plan does have it in future right of way needs. So within the planning horizon we must plan

442
01:38:43.150 --> 01:38:56.397
for it. So the applicant is providing that the setbacks are measured from the reservation, not from the front property line. And they will provide the

443
01:38:56.397 --> 01:39:08.642
sidewalk on Mango Street next to the street. At this point, as required by code. This is just an illustration of the

444
01:39:08.642 --> 01:39:20.154
open space. So this this shows where the open space park is. And this is kind of an interesting area. Lake Butler Heights was platted in 1911 and

445
01:39:20.154 --> 01:39:30.564
they really meant heights. There's a couple of spots here that are 30ft, 30 foot elevation or close to it. So the applicant will be lowering

446
01:39:30.564 --> 01:39:40.073
the area developed for the townhomes and infrastructure and leaving the open space park. And this kind of shows that at

447
01:39:40.073 --> 01:39:51.618
the current elevation, and that will enable them to preserve some trees. They're also going to put a block wall, of course,

448
01:39:51.618 --> 01:40:05.899
to retain that elevated area. So that will buffer help to buffer those homes to the west a little bit. They won't have

449
01:40:05.899 --> 01:40:16.743
lights, you know, vehicle lights shining over there. This is guest parking that they're proposing next to the park, and

450
01:40:16.743 --> 01:40:29.656
it will provide a natural high topographic area where the community members can enjoy the open space. They did provide a

451
01:40:29.656 --> 01:40:40.067
narrative telling the different options that they might have for use of that open space as a mini park. Of course, that'll

452
01:40:40.067 --> 01:40:52.713
be maintained by the homeowners association. This is just, you know, showing the elevation and

453
01:40:52.713 --> 01:41:02.389
floor plans, the elevation here on the lower left corner is the Mango Street elevation, showing that it won't be just a solid,

454
01:41:02.389 --> 01:41:16.036
solid wall on Mango Street. So the proposal does comply with the multifamily residential zoning district and the Land Development Code, with the

455
01:41:16.036 --> 01:41:26.880
exception of that perimeter sidewalk. We feel like that is the applicant is asking for a waiver for that, which you can

456
01:41:26.880 --> 01:41:39.793
do as part of that preliminary plat. It's a 32 unit community, pretty low, low level density

457
01:41:39.793 --> 01:41:50.571
with just the one street. It's not a through street. So staff feels that the waiver can be supported. This also complies

458
01:41:50.571 --> 01:42:02.749
with the comprehensive plan as consistent with the residential, residential, Urban Future land use category and the intent.

459
01:42:02.749 --> 01:42:13.961
And it provides good a good infill product. And these are market rate townhomes in this area. It complies with the city's concurrency management

460
01:42:13.961 --> 01:42:25.105
system for utilities, solid waste disposal, stormwater and transportation. The park

461
01:42:25.105 --> 01:42:36.283
facilities are not subject to concurrency. We are deficient in many parks, so the applicant providing really more than

462
01:42:36.283 --> 01:42:47.361
enough many park. I think it comes out to senior staff report 300 some square feet per person for that development.

463
01:42:47.361 --> 01:42:59.973
Does assist the city with with not exacerbating that deficiency. The city's level of service requirement is about

464
01:42:59.973 --> 01:43:11.118
3535ft■!S per person. Many park, so that helps. And then the project is expected to comply with the building codes, fire

465
01:43:11.118 --> 01:43:24.464
codes and flood codes. I will say too, that this project will meet our coastal high hazard criteria requiring the elevation of the finished floor

466
01:43:24.464 --> 01:43:33.507
above more than three feet above the flood elevation. This is mostly not in a flood zone. There is some area that's in a

467
01:43:33.507 --> 01:43:43.917
zone, and they'll be about 6 or 7ft above that 500 year flood elevation with their finished floors. So they more than meet

468
01:43:43.917 --> 01:43:53.293
that. So staff is recommending approval of the proposed site plan, subject to the waiver of

469
01:43:53.293 --> 01:44:07.407
the sidewalk in favor of the plan shown in the packet. And eight conditions. First is the project will be master metered.

470
01:44:07.407 --> 01:44:17.617
The second is that the project meet all requirements for tree planting and mitigation. They haven't quite finished calculating that mitigation, so they'll need to do that for the

471
01:44:17.617 --> 01:44:29.996
building permit. The project is subject to public art provision. I did mention the housing authority law. When this is

472
01:44:29.996 --> 01:44:41.942
vacated. One of the things that's prohibited is vacating right of way. If it provides

473
01:44:41.942 --> 01:44:51.551
the sole means of access to a lot, technically, this lot has access from the alley off mango,

474
01:44:51.551 --> 01:45:06.032
so it does meet the vacate standards. But we also wanted to add the condition that the applicant not deny access from

475
01:45:06.032 --> 01:45:15.074
the subdivision roadway. That way there's a some flexibility and, you know, a little bit

476
01:45:15.074 --> 01:45:27.587
more. Access options for them. I mean, for something, for example, there's a fire, you know, obviously fire has access

477
01:45:27.587 --> 01:45:41.001
regardless, but just having that, that access to be able to be taken off that roadway since it will be private, you want to make sure that could happen.

478
01:45:41.001 --> 01:45:48.842
And I don't know, you might ask me, but I have we don't have any information on the housing authority, some plan for that

479
01:45:48.842 --> 01:46:00.754
lot at all. We haven't. They were notified. I'm sorry. The the Tarpon Springs Housing

480
01:46:00.754 --> 01:46:13.667
Authority owns this lot. 16 here. So that's why they're getting that right of right of way. Half of it we don't have we don't have any information.

481
01:46:13.667 --> 01:46:22.709
They did receive notification of the proposed vacate. We haven't heard from them on that construction plans to be

482
01:46:22.709 --> 01:46:36.756
consistent with the site plan. And then the developer must meet the minimum criteria of the Land Development Code. The site plan will expire in six

483
01:46:36.756 --> 01:46:47.167
months, unless a building permit or construction permit has been obtained, and then they will have to come in for final plat. And there's a couple of notes here regarding

484
01:46:47.167 --> 01:46:59.112
the notes that we're looking for on the plan. The packet also has a copy of the homeowners association declarations that are proposed.

485
01:46:59.112 --> 01:47:05.685
All that will be finalized at Final Plan. Are there any

486
01:47:05.685 --> 01:47:26.806
questions? Questions for staff starting. All right. Any

487
01:47:26.806 --> 01:47:39.052
questions for staff? No. No. Mr. Question for staff. All the way down at the left. Thank you. Great presentation. Pat. Three

488
01:47:39.052 --> 01:47:52.332
questions. As I was studying this before coming in site plan. Predicated upon approval of the vacation of right of way. Could the housing authority block

489
01:47:52.332 --> 01:48:04.311
this from moving forward? If they do not give permission, they don't need direct permission from the Housing Authority. The housing

490
01:48:04.311 --> 01:48:14.287
authority has been notified. They can certainly comment on the proposed vacation. And the Board of Commissioners would take consider their public

491
01:48:14.287 --> 01:48:25.532
comments, and the Board of Commissioners would make a decision. Okay. I believe page

492
01:48:25.532 --> 01:48:35.508
four of the application report says owned by the city. When. So is that not correct that the housing development is Tarpon

493
01:48:35.508 --> 01:48:48.488
Springs? Or the housing authority? The Tarpon Springs Housing Authority is not Tarpon Springs City, though. It's not. No, it's it's own. Got it. And

494
01:48:48.488 --> 01:48:58.565
that's its authority, you know, registered with the state just like any authority in the state. Okay. Thank you. It's own

495
01:48:58.565 --> 01:49:10.510
entity. The sidewalk waiver. I was trying to understand that and how it's supposed to go around the entire exterior area

496
01:49:10.510 --> 01:49:23.056
of the property. But where are we? Where's this sidewalk going to go in, and how does it meet the criteria? So looking at

497
01:49:23.056 --> 01:49:34.601
this site plan exhibit, it would go in along the entire perimeter around the cul de sac. And then on the east side,

498
01:49:34.601 --> 01:49:46.046
there would be kind of a hiatus in the sidewalk. There would not be here. Aren't any homes here. And then it would pick back up in front of these

499
01:49:46.046 --> 01:49:56.956
townhomes and go back to Mango Street. There's a sidewalk on Mango Street. There is a crosswalk proposed here to cross the street. And to tell

500
01:49:56.956 --> 01:50:07.867
you the truth, I, I would guess because of the open space park, depending on where they put steps up to the open space park, people are going to cross the

501
01:50:07.867 --> 01:50:17.077
street, you know, almost anywhere. But but they do have a marked crosswalk shown here.

502
01:50:17.077 --> 01:50:31.458
So the idea was to. That that portion of sidewalk wasn't necessarily free. I mean, you know, that's impervious, but it's, it's certainly the code

503
01:50:31.458 --> 01:50:41.868
technically requires a perimeter sidewalk along the street. Okay. Yeah. But but that that can be waived. So that's the question is whether

504
01:50:41.868 --> 01:50:52.378
that would be allowed to be waived. And then moving on to

505
01:50:52.378 --> 01:51:07.060
the geotechnical report. Pull this up real quick. My note said unanticipated soil

506
01:51:07.060 --> 01:51:15.068
condition may require removal. Can you speak on that? I'm trying to I'll try to find the

507
01:51:15.068 --> 01:51:30.116
page number. I think they always say that. Yes. So I didn't read it. But yeah, if they were to find. So this

508
01:51:30.116 --> 01:51:38.190
property has been cleared in the past as you can kind of see on the aerial. There is some has been obviously some dumping

509
01:51:38.190 --> 01:51:51.805
on the property in the past. I haven't heard an applicant may be able to speak to this, that there are any past uses or that there have been. This was

510
01:51:51.805 --> 01:52:03.249
platted in 1911 and never developed. So these streets rights of way unimproved have been there the whole time, so I doubt there have been previous

511
01:52:03.249 --> 01:52:13.693
uses on the property. But like I say, if the applicant had any title information that would be a thing. But but that

512
01:52:13.693 --> 01:52:24.504
statement's usually there a lot of times because if we have some buried debris that is not suitable for building a structure on, they would have

513
01:52:24.504 --> 01:52:36.349
to remove that and replace it with okay, correct soil. Now they are going to be lowering the site quite a bit or and the

514
01:52:36.349 --> 01:52:48.394
applicant, again, the engineer can maybe answer some of those questions. No, thank you for that. And finally, the hurricane shelter space impact,

515
01:52:48.394 --> 01:52:58.705
the report that was given was June 26th, 2024. This being two years after that. Does this

516
01:52:58.705 --> 01:53:13.119
change the hurricane impact? Based on this new data of 32 units, the applicant did do the analysis based on the 2024

517
01:53:13.119 --> 01:53:23.629
shelter analysis they applied in 2024. And that is the latest report we have from Pinellas County. I've been trying to see

518
01:53:23.629 --> 01:53:35.842
if there is a later shelter capacity analysis. I've not been able to obtain one yet. So that is the latest data that we

519
01:53:35.842 --> 01:53:46.653
have and that the applicant was provided to do the analysis. Okay. And based on all your findings within that, everything is up to standard.

520
01:53:46.653 --> 01:53:56.629
Yes. Okay. Sufficient capacity to house those that would evacuate to within county to a shelter. Awesome. Thanks, Pat.

521
01:53:56.629 --> 01:54:11.177
Appreciate it. Questions for staff. Thanks again Pat, I appreciate that presentation. I just had a quick question on

522
01:54:11.177 --> 01:54:23.856
the flood drainage. Is that going to adversely affect anyone? I'm not sure if it's been looked at. I'm sure it is in there, but I just want to double check anybody to the

523
01:54:23.856 --> 01:54:35.868
south on Park View Boulevard. I noticed the way that the X 500 floodplain goes. It's kind of angled towards Park View, and this plan I see stormwater

524
01:54:35.868 --> 01:54:46.045
handling up there. I just want to make sure it's not going to go due south, right into those people's houses to the south. Has that been looked at? Yes,

525
01:54:46.045 --> 01:54:58.591
we we have a fairly stringent stormwater handling code. The applicant can maybe provide a summary or some details of, of, of the system, but they must

526
01:54:58.591 --> 01:55:08.267
retain all of their stormwater on site and handle that stormwater on site. Okay. And there's going to be no future plans that we know of, of any

527
01:55:08.267 --> 01:55:17.710
kind of westerly entrance into this community from a distant avenue extension or anything that we know of. No. Okay.

528
01:55:17.710 --> 01:55:28.421
That's it. Thank you. I, I'm sitting here looking at the

529
01:55:28.421 --> 01:55:45.738
discussion about the soil again. I'm sorry, my mic may be off.

530
01:55:45.738 --> 01:56:00.486
We're good. Forgive my voice. There were some terms that I have not heard in my life that

531
01:56:00.486 --> 01:56:13.132
I'm I'm running across in this. The soil determination. Pardon me. And I wonder if you could

532
01:56:13.132 --> 01:56:28.981
sort of give me a bottom line on the state of the soil. It looks like they've done a lot to check it out. They were

533
01:56:28.981 --> 01:56:37.924
obtaining information concerning subsurface conditions. General suitability,

534
01:56:37.924 --> 01:56:52.305
general location, all that good stuff. What is the question? I'm just asking you for a

535
01:56:52.305 --> 01:56:58.811
general summary of the site based on all of this, of all this these studies that were

536
01:56:58.811 --> 01:57:12.558
done in terms of. Sea water level, I mean, what what is this property? Where is it on on that count? What zone are

537
01:57:12.558 --> 01:57:23.736
they in? What type of soil is? I mean, I think what the question was, was asked is maybe relating to is all this soil going to be removed and

538
01:57:23.736 --> 01:57:36.282
replaced? AM I reading that in here? Do you recall? I'm not sure. I'd rather have the applicant answer that. You're getting into some technical

539
01:57:36.282 --> 01:57:42.488
engineering and he would be more appropriate to answer that. I'm sorry. Thank you. That's

540
01:57:42.488 --> 01:58:06.945
okay. I didn't have any other questions. Okay. I wasn't sure if that was done yet, but you

541
01:58:06.945 --> 01:58:18.024
know, a nice quiet is is okay. Okay. I have a couple, but I want to make sure everybody else has asked all the questions they want. A

542
01:58:18.024 --> 01:58:31.370
gentleman mentioned distant Avenue to the west, and I was looking at the survey and this particular element. And there was one aerial photo that

543
01:58:31.370 --> 01:58:42.882
showed the property with the red line around it. It's a good one. Yeah. That's perfect. Okay, so your photo is better than the one that I'm looking at because the one that I was looking at hadn't been

544
01:58:42.882 --> 01:58:53.191
completed yet. And mango just kind of terminated. And maybe that one shows Meredith better. Okay, so hypothetical And the

545
01:58:53.191 --> 01:59:05.471
question will make sense. If the city of Tarpon Springs chose to make distinct, continuous as it should be.

546
01:59:05.471 --> 01:59:16.349
Would that expansion of distance distant? Would it affect any decisions being made today about the site plan, such

547
01:59:16.349 --> 01:59:27.760
as the reservation of 17ft on mango? No. The applicant owns

548
01:59:27.760 --> 01:59:41.107
one lot on distant. But it is not well on that west side. The just distant right of way stops. It doesn't. It was. It doesn't

549
01:59:41.107 --> 01:59:53.286
exist. It's a complicated history. We've looked at this multiple times. They own one lot on the west side. I can show you where that is. This is

550
01:59:53.286 --> 02:00:05.197
the west side. They own this lot. Just. Just an avenue ends right before the lot they own. That lot is not involved in

551
02:00:05.197 --> 02:00:17.376
this project. So this project is completely independent of anything going on over in this area. Okay. And I know you

552
02:00:17.376 --> 02:00:29.388
answered, but I'm going to ask again for the future because I just feel that we're at a no go back zone if this were to be developed. So you say that

553
02:00:29.388 --> 02:00:40.165
distant right of way ends at the end of those lots, but distant was obviously platted all the way through to Klosterman. It was okay. And

554
02:00:40.165 --> 02:00:50.375
that it makes perfect common sense for anybody that's lived here for any period of time and driven those roads that that road should be contiguous at some point. In fact, all we

555
02:00:50.375 --> 02:01:02.054
have to do is wait for a hurricane to go, realize that we only have two avenues north and south, one being alternate 19 plugged, 19 plugged. Why isn't distant going all the way through? So as a planning board

556
02:01:02.054 --> 02:01:13.599
and a planning person, I would think we should be very, very cautious about doing anything that may hinder the eventual

557
02:01:13.599 --> 02:01:25.778
future continuation of distant through to Klosterman. And I'm trying to read the maps, and I'm not an expert, but can you

558
02:01:25.778 --> 02:01:37.356
as a professional, see anything that we would look back on and go, coulda, woulda, shoulda, now we can't do what the

559
02:01:37.356 --> 02:01:47.800
community needs because we didn't plan appropriately back in 2026. No, I don't, I don't

560
02:01:47.800 --> 02:02:01.480
see. Anything that that this project would affect as far as the future extension of distant. And in. Patricia McNeese, I trust that with levity, but

561
02:02:01.480 --> 02:02:11.690
that's. I just had to ask just to make sure I didn't see it either. But I wanted to ask that anything with that stormwater, you know, they,

562
02:02:11.690 --> 02:02:19.098
they do have some frontage along distant and along mango, we are reserving 17ft right of

563
02:02:19.098 --> 02:02:33.212
way for future expansion. Yes. Thought process here. So if we were to extend distant and add sidewalks and a bike lane and

564
02:02:33.212 --> 02:02:42.521
do all the things that were appropriate, are we giving away something now that we wish we hadn't given away? Yes. So the

565
02:02:42.521 --> 02:02:52.965
Mango Street, right. Oh, widening is adopted in year 2045 comprehensive plan. That's why they have to reserve that

566
02:02:52.965 --> 02:03:05.177
right of way. The distant avenue is not. And. That's you know that's a great point. So

567
02:03:05.177 --> 02:03:18.891
if distant avenue were to be made continuous, could you see any reason that some right of way or easement needs to be

568
02:03:18.891 --> 02:03:30.269
recommended or taken into account now, so that as a planning agency, the local planning agency we're seeing into the future and making good decisions for our community?

569
02:03:30.269 --> 02:03:41.847
Yeah, I, I'm not sure what the basis would be. I'm not sure what what we would use. So there is it's no longer a right

570
02:03:41.847 --> 02:03:51.190
of way. The bigger the bigger issue is the Duke Energy corridor. Further to the west. And that that would really be

571
02:03:51.190 --> 02:04:03.769
the issue regardless of of, you know, any contribution from the the applicant, I think I don't know. In other words, I don't think it could be overcome by

572
02:04:03.769 --> 02:04:12.077
some contribution from the applicant, and I don't know what the basis would be for that or the basis for any

573
02:04:12.077 --> 02:04:23.589
amount for a contribution. I think that that corridor, if it if we do, it has got to be

574
02:04:23.589 --> 02:04:35.868
resolved based on on the area that's there. We had a preliminary study of that extension. You may remember that's what the analysis was based on. It wasn't didn't

575
02:04:35.868 --> 02:04:46.645
really identify the need for anybody to give up right of way, whether it's built property or vacant. That is a great answer.

576
02:04:46.645 --> 02:04:58.157
And thank you for your patience as I do that. I do have one more question. With the vacation of the right of way,

577
02:04:58.157 --> 02:05:11.470
is the city giving away any public property? The. The one lot notwithstanding. So the vacation of the right of way is simply. We're just allowing

578
02:05:11.470 --> 02:05:22.013
them to build what might have been planted as a road, but we're not actually contributing any city property to the applicant or the owners. We are

579
02:05:22.013 --> 02:05:32.758
not contributing city owned property. The right of way is public property. The applicant does have to pay a vacation fee

580
02:05:32.758 --> 02:05:41.634
equal to half for half the right of way, equal to the appraised value. So they do have to pay a fee to vacate

581
02:05:41.634 --> 02:05:53.946
that right of way. Which they have deposited in anticipation of if it's approved, then we'll have the fee. If it's not

582
02:05:53.946 --> 02:06:05.791
approved, then it will be refunded. Okay. Yeah, I'm going to just I need to drill into this a little bit more. So the answer is yes, that there is a

583
02:06:05.791 --> 02:06:18.737
vacation of right. Not actual ownership of property. And and why only half? That's what the code requires. I think it's mostly based on the fact that,

584
02:06:18.737 --> 02:06:29.982
you know, 90% of the vacation we run, the request is made by a property owner, and the property across the street is usually another owner. In this

585
02:06:29.982 --> 02:06:41.460
case, you've got one that's another owner. And so they get free, you know, right of way. Whereas the requester pays for

586
02:06:41.460 --> 02:06:53.605
their half. That's the way the code is been for a long time. And that's the way it's written. So the only that's the city's own code code and ordinances.

587
02:06:53.605 --> 02:07:03.782
That's the ordinance of the city of Tarpon Springs that we have half we gave away a, a road a few years ago. Right. Okay. Next to it was. Yeah. To your point, that code was

588
02:07:03.782 --> 02:07:14.960
suspended, was changed a few years ago, but it was reinstated, right? Yeah. Because we're giving away roads for free when they were asked for. Yeah. Okay. Do you know

589
02:07:14.960 --> 02:07:28.640
what that value is? Ballpark. Somewhere around 32,000. So $32,000 and they get all that land. Okay. Well, all the

590
02:07:28.640 --> 02:07:41.220
housing authority, 15ft in the front of their line. I see that one more question. You go there is that this applicant went

591
02:07:41.220 --> 02:07:54.233
through five TRC applications. Yeah. What was the housing authority part of of one of those applications. I know they're an independent body. So the housing authority they've

592
02:07:54.233 --> 02:08:04.309
got that one lot. Did they eventually they're like, hey, we're good with this. We support this. We're going to give away 15ft. No, the housing

593
02:08:04.309 --> 02:08:14.052
authority has not participated. I believe the applicant again, can say I believe they they really tried to approach the housing authority about buying

594
02:08:14.052 --> 02:08:25.531
that parcel. He he can speak to that. I don't believe they got any response. Okay. But I'd like to confirm that. Okay.

595
02:08:25.531 --> 02:08:35.908
That's all. Thank you very much. Any additional questions for staff? Go ahead. Well, actually my question is Pat, and, you know, you may know the answers

596
02:08:35.908 --> 02:08:48.220
to this, but I thought maybe we could engage our our counsel. To explain, to explain the nature of right of way in terms of legally, in terms of

597
02:08:48.220 --> 02:08:59.798
property law, who owns the right of way, if anyone, and who has access to it, who, who has a stake in that right of way? If I have a right of way,

598
02:08:59.798 --> 02:09:09.408
I assume I can start at a certain point and keep going, but not if somebody owns it, cuts it off. This this

599
02:09:09.408 --> 02:09:19.151
particular plat is the. The streets were dedicated to the public so that these were public roads. So yeah, it's

600
02:09:19.151 --> 02:09:31.830
owned by the public of Tarpon Springs technically. And maybe you're just like any road in the city. If you go on appraiser, just to kind of give

601
02:09:31.830 --> 02:09:44.009
you a context, if you click on a road, 90% of the time, there won't be a parcel that comes up because it's public, dedicated in most plants, right of way.

602
02:09:44.009 --> 02:09:55.353
Now, this particular plant will have a private road that that will be owned by the homeowner's association and maintained by them. On the

603
02:09:55.353 --> 02:10:05.998
right of way. Their road will be private and example might be point Alexis. They have a private road. They maintain,

604
02:10:05.998 --> 02:10:15.707
you know that they can control ingress and egress. But yeah, I don't know if you need anything further from the attorney on

605
02:10:15.707 --> 02:10:28.587
that, but my, my other quick question was. In the geotechnical report, it, it indicates that the scope of

606
02:10:28.587 --> 02:10:38.796
their services, whoever did the report did not include an environmental assessment for determining the presence or absence of wetlands or hazardous toxic materials in

607
02:10:38.796 --> 02:10:52.377
the soil, bedrock, groundwater or air on or above or around this site. No, we don't we

608
02:10:52.377 --> 02:11:03.555
don't require an environmental audit, which sometimes we ask for one. So phase one audit, not required for every

609
02:11:03.555 --> 02:11:15.333
application, staff and past staff has extensively walked the site. It's at anywhere from 25 to 30 foot elevation. There

610
02:11:15.333 --> 02:11:28.313
are no wetlands on the site. If they were to run into some issues as far as some kind of environmental hazard or or past

611
02:11:28.313 --> 02:11:39.591
evidence of some past dumping, for example, then they would they would need to deal with that. You know, in the course

612
02:11:39.591 --> 02:11:52.904
of getting your building permit and remediating for that, I guess I'm kind of concerned. The reason I'm asking is, for

613
02:11:52.904 --> 02:12:02.981
example, those apartments that are behind. What was Winn-Dixie back over there? All that all that apartment complex was

614
02:12:02.981 --> 02:12:16.962
built on top of Springs a spring. And I'm wondering if there's any way we can determine whether there is a spring in that area. I wasn't

615
02:12:16.962 --> 02:12:28.140
around when the the apartments were approved, notwithstanding a spring existing in that location. But. I was I saw

616
02:12:28.140 --> 02:12:37.883
photographs of the aftermath. So that's what I'm curious. I mean, we have apartments by the grocery. Yeah. Okay. I think you're talking about the annex

617
02:12:37.883 --> 02:12:49.827
apartments. It used to be called Icaria. This is a different apartment complex. Oh, I know this is a different apartment complex. So we have we have a wildlife report. We

618
02:12:49.827 --> 02:13:00.539
have a geotech. I think if there if there were groundwater or springs present, you know, we have a habitat report. We we

619
02:13:00.539 --> 02:13:14.986
we'd have something identified. I'm not sure what else we need to for curiosity is to. Is

620
02:13:14.986 --> 02:13:25.397
there anything that we have, any mapping of the springs that exist in Tarpon Springs? I'm sure South Florida, southwest

621
02:13:25.397 --> 02:13:35.941
Florida water management probably has records of historic and current springs. Okay, because I, like I said, I wasn't involved in I, I, I

622
02:13:35.941 --> 02:13:47.385
don't have the information. I just know what occurred in the result. I don't know anything in between with the apartment complex I'm referring to. Yeah.

623
02:13:47.385 --> 02:13:56.428
And I, and I will say that project was vested for many years. And that was a big

624
02:13:56.428 --> 02:14:08.573
factor in the development of that project. Okay. Thank you. Any additional questions for staff before we move on to the

625
02:14:08.573 --> 02:14:20.819
applicant's presentation? I have one question. Is reclaimed water available to this project? I can't remember, but I don't think so. Yeah. No, there was a

626
02:14:20.819 --> 02:14:34.499
discussion on that. I believe they'll be using a well for irrigation because of that. But Matt can speak to that. Well

627
02:14:34.499 --> 02:14:39.271
then no more questions for staff. If the applicant wants

628
02:14:39.271 --> 02:15:00.091
to make a presentation please. Excuse me. Evening Matt. Silver 13825 I Court Boulevard, suite

629
02:15:00.091 --> 02:15:11.670
605, Clearwater, Florida. Please don't be mad at me, but could you spell your last name? Sure, silver rain, SYL as in lion, V as in Victor, E as in

630
02:15:11.670 --> 02:15:20.278
Eric, R as in Robert, A as in Apple, I as in India, and N as in Naomi. So silver with a y.

631
02:15:20.278 --> 02:15:33.225
Rain, silver rain one r. Thank you. Easy enough. So, Mr.

632
02:15:33.225 --> 02:15:44.769
Acting Chairman, members of the board, we are requesting the approval of the Mango Street townhome site plan. As Miss Mcniece explained, it's 32

633
02:15:44.769 --> 02:15:57.115
market rate townhome units on about four and a half acres. It is shy of the maximum allowed. The maximum allowable density. The maximum allowable density

634
02:15:57.115 --> 02:16:07.425
is seven and a half units per acre. We're approving. We are proposing 7.1 units per acre. We are also providing ample

635
02:16:07.425 --> 02:16:17.902
open space. We are preserving some trees on the site. Approximately 40 trees on this site. And as also Pat mentioned,

636
02:16:17.902 --> 02:16:31.149
we are dedicating 17.5 acres, 17.5ft fronting the Mango Street for future right of way improvements. All

637
02:16:31.149 --> 02:16:40.258
infrastructures on the site will be privately maintained by a homeowner's association, which minimizes future maintenance obligations to the

638
02:16:40.258 --> 02:16:49.600
city. Well, we're we're providing a master meter up front that will serve all of the residents. So it'll be one

639
02:16:49.600 --> 02:17:03.948
water bill. I really want to highlight the the staff's effort throughout the review process. In particular, Miss Mcniece, we've worked lockstep

640
02:17:03.948 --> 02:17:15.493
to get this over the finish line, and I humbly ask for your approval. I know we have a few questions. I try to take as

641
02:17:15.493 --> 02:17:26.571
best notes as possible. I want to get through some of your questions. I'll start with Mr. Morris. So that's a standard

642
02:17:26.571 --> 02:17:39.184
note. Yes. So, you know, as the gentleman said, buried treasure. Sometimes we find it some some things happen. We find debris or unsuitable soils, organics.

643
02:17:39.184 --> 02:17:49.327
And those have to be removed as part of the construction process. Mr. Morris, we went

644
02:17:49.327 --> 02:18:00.137
through a very stringent stormwater review. My recollection of the site is in a volume sensitive area, and as

645
02:18:00.137 --> 02:18:11.249
part of our study, we had to prove that we did not discharge more volume of stormwater than previously before it was

646
02:18:11.249 --> 02:18:20.592
developed. And also, we don't discharge at a higher rate. So we don't discharge as fast and we don't discharge as as much

647
02:18:20.592 --> 02:18:34.272
either. Miss early. Also, to answer your question on Geotech, the majority of the site is going to be shaved down, so we

648
02:18:34.272 --> 02:18:46.184
are going to remove some soil and truck it off the site. And the site's soils are sandy soils, the good soils. We haven't found any aggressive

649
02:18:46.184 --> 02:18:57.996
soils as well. And I also wanted to bring up that the the owners electively performed a phase 1SA, which is a

650
02:18:57.996 --> 02:19:08.206
preliminary environmental study to research the site and make sure, you know, it wasn't a brown site and that there weren't any issues that we, you know, we could get ahead of.

651
02:19:08.206 --> 02:19:19.617
Because if something does arise in the middle of construction, you know, we'd have to rectify it. So we did our due diligence to make sure that, to our knowledge, there are no

652
02:19:19.617 --> 02:19:31.229
environmental soil issues on the site. And miss Wade, to our knowledge, there is no reclaimed water available. And we will apply for what's called

653
02:19:31.229 --> 02:19:41.906
a water utility permit with the Water Management district in order to construct a well and to irrigate the landscape areas. So I'd be happy to answer any

654
02:19:41.906 --> 02:19:46.678
other questions you guys may have. Questions for the

655
02:19:46.678 --> 02:20:03.161
applicant starting at the left. No questions. Thank you. No

656
02:20:03.161 --> 02:20:15.740
questions. Thank you. No questions. Thank you. Going to good news. I'm thrilled with this project and I hope it works out. I have a whole list

657
02:20:15.740 --> 02:20:25.649
of things to talk about with you, but not questions on this project. Thank you. And thank you. I was in attendance at one

658
02:20:25.649 --> 02:20:37.061
of the TRC meetings, so I had a little, little advance knowledge and some questions answered before I. I'm a big fan of the buffer between the existing residential and what

659
02:20:37.061 --> 02:20:48.573
you're going to plant there. I think that makes a big difference. The fact that it's going to be a little a little lower shaved down, like you said, is going to be a big benefit to them, get a little

660
02:20:48.573 --> 02:20:59.384
more breeze and things like that. And if I remember correctly, you're not waving the public art component to be off site. You're going to do something there and it's going

661
02:20:59.384 --> 02:21:10.895
to be on that retaining wall so that it's visible to people going up and down the street and guest parking and things like that. That is that is correct. That is correct. We

662
02:21:10.895 --> 02:21:23.508
are doing some research. We're talking to different people trying to put a presentation together. And then my understanding is we then have to present that to an arts

663
02:21:23.508 --> 02:21:33.585
board. So we're working towards that. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Silver. And I actually told a fib. I said I didn't have any questions and I do.

664
02:21:33.585 --> 02:21:42.560
Would that be the will of the board? Okay. Will you be planning on selling these on the open market or privately

665
02:21:42.560 --> 02:21:54.839
with your own staff? To my knowledge. The the owners or developing this site for a home builder. So they will sell the

666
02:21:54.839 --> 02:22:06.350
site to the home builder and the home builders will, they'll sell the homes to private owners. Okay, to my knowledge, that's very likely that they'll be on the open market. So I'm.

667
02:22:06.350 --> 02:22:18.196
If it's the board's will to recuse myself, I am a realtor locally. I'll put that out there. I don't know if that's going to be an issue, but I may end up selling some of these.

668
02:22:18.196 --> 02:22:28.139
We don't know. I don't know if you feel it's an issue and recuse yourself from the vote. That's perfectly. I don't think it'll affect my bias at all, but just want to be open with

669
02:22:28.139 --> 02:22:40.485
it. Thank you, Mr. Silver. Appreciate it. Thank you. On that issue, did they consider doing any. Subsidized units at

670
02:22:40.485 --> 02:22:48.026
all? As of now, that is not the plan. Their plan to be market rate units. It said that over

671
02:22:48.026 --> 02:23:02.840
and over market rate. Do you plan to gain any additional questions for the applicant? No.

672
02:23:02.840 --> 02:23:14.185
So I have I have one it's just kind of a detail element. And actually staff might weigh in after I ask you, is the the term master meters been dropped

673
02:23:14.185 --> 02:23:25.530
a few times? The idea hey, there's only one water bill, which strikes me as a little bit odd considering that they're townhomes and they're going to be sold individually. And that creates some

674
02:23:25.530 --> 02:23:37.775
downstream challenges for whomever the HOA is handling. That particular element. Was the master metering your suggestion, or was that a requirement of the city's

675
02:23:37.775 --> 02:23:51.155
requirement of the city? And that's typical. I found in newer development, even townhome developments, what happens is a and this is what's

676
02:23:51.155 --> 02:24:00.064
typically typically happens. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen in this case. And typically what happens is it's included in the HOA

677
02:24:00.064 --> 02:24:11.275
monthly bill. And that covers water, sewer and trash, you know, trash pickup in some places. I think in this place it will be public. But what

678
02:24:11.275 --> 02:24:21.685
happens is the HOA gets together and they kind of take a guess at how much everybody's going to spend. And then they put it on the bill and so on

679
02:24:21.685 --> 02:24:32.463
and so forth. Or the other way that's done, it's done. And it's not quite as often is the there's one meter and then from

680
02:24:32.463 --> 02:24:43.975
there sub metered and it's, you know, parceled off to, to the different owners. But the HOA is responsible for doing that because when you have a ton of

681
02:24:43.975 --> 02:24:56.520
meters, it's, it's puts a little bit more stress on city staff. So it's a master meter does the trick. So it's only one meter to read. So it's

682
02:24:56.520 --> 02:25:07.465
easier on the on city staff. And it's typically it's a staff requirement. That's a really good answer. And that takes the pressure off Pat for answering

683
02:25:07.465 --> 02:25:18.376
as to why it was required. Because it's better for the city, less meters. One bummer for the HOA to solve that challenge. That was my only question. Any follow up

684
02:25:18.376 --> 02:25:28.419
questions? Anybody else? Yeah, I have one more. Speaking of that trash, where is the trash on your site plan? So there's no dumpster that's going to be

685
02:25:28.419 --> 02:25:42.233
trash roll out. I was surprised about that. So every unit is going to have their own. Yes. Okay. No further questions. I

686
02:25:42.233 --> 02:25:52.576
do, I'm sorry. Okay. Real quick. Yeah. You. But I got one that is directly applies to the last question. Mine too. Okay. You

687
02:25:52.576 --> 02:26:03.821
go first. What the nature of these villas attached villas is that they are townhouses. Townhouses. Now, is each

688
02:26:03.821 --> 02:26:18.603
individual going to own their townhouse roof walls? So, yes, roofs. I think that's under the

689
02:26:18.603 --> 02:26:30.114
HOA typically as well. It depends on how the documents are written. And I can say that from experience because I've lived in a townhouse and you know, when they had to repair the roofs, we had one special

690
02:26:30.114 --> 02:26:40.925
assessment. So we were it wasn't on us to repair the roofs, but it depends on how the docs are written. Well, that's why. Well, the reason I'm asking is I happen to live

691
02:26:40.925 --> 02:26:52.803
in, in a community where even though they're attached villas, each person is the sole owner of their and have to take care of their own roofs and everything else. So it's a

692
02:26:52.803 --> 02:27:04.015
little different. So I wondered if this was going to be or not, or from what you're saying, if the roofs are involved with HOA, then it's not going to be what I'm talking about. It'll be

693
02:27:04.015 --> 02:27:15.459
just a normal HOA kind of thing. Correct. Okay. That's what's typical. Thank you. Thank you. Right, right. If I may, I wanted to follow up on the question. I'm going to want to

694
02:27:15.459 --> 02:27:26.337
continue to drill into the master metering. And then the gentleman's question about trash. So as I understand the city of Tarpon Springs, because

695
02:27:26.337 --> 02:27:36.047
I read my bill, it's not an a la carte service. And the city of Tarpon Springs, if you're in the community, you get a bill that includes your water, sewer,

696
02:27:36.047 --> 02:27:49.727
trash and recycle. As proposed. That cuts against that grain. It's juxtaposed against it where we would have somehow the city is going to master meter the water and the sewer fine,

697
02:27:49.727 --> 02:28:01.973
but yet individual trash collection for each of the homeowners. So that kind of undoes the simplicity of the city of Tarpon Springs. And

698
02:28:01.973 --> 02:28:13.216
staff can weigh in, but it doesn't take much. As someone that lives in an HOA, right, or someone that's lived in a townhome is that it's you're either all in or all out, one

699
02:28:13.216 --> 02:28:22.192
or the other. And I'm not suggesting what the answer is, but I can tell that right out of the gate that I, unless I'm mistaken, that the city doesn't

700
02:28:22.192 --> 02:28:35.472
send out just a trash bill and then send our contracted trash company to go down. So I think, Pat, do you have a comment about how that's going to be addressed? Well, you know, one

701
02:28:35.472 --> 02:28:45.483
of the things about this, because it's a private road, that's what that's a big factor that prompts utilities

702
02:28:45.483 --> 02:28:57.394
department to master meter it. So they will get a bill. Everybody, each townhome will have a tote just like any homeowner, and they'll be able

703
02:28:57.394 --> 02:29:09.573
to bill for 32 totes. Plus, you know, anything generated by the HOA itself. If they're picking something up for the the park

704
02:29:09.573 --> 02:29:20.284
or they don't really have a pool or any of that kind of stuff, no community building. So they'll just bill for 32. I mean, so the city will do that.

705
02:29:20.284 --> 02:29:31.962
The city will set up in our in our Whomever's contract. It will roll down the road, pick up their trash and recycle, and their bill will only include the trash portion and not the

706
02:29:31.962 --> 02:29:43.407
water. No, I'm sorry, I meant to say, when they bill the master meter, it'll have a bill for 32. Oh, so it'll get the trash bill to. Know. They'll

707
02:29:43.407 --> 02:29:55.319
assess for. That is my understanding. Okay, so if I'm wrong, that answers the question. So it's a one size fit. Things will happen. That's

708
02:29:55.319 --> 02:30:07.164
my understanding. I may be wrong. I'm not utilities, but yeah, one of the two things will happen. But they are getting towed service. Okay.

709
02:30:07.164 --> 02:30:19.109
Additional questions. Sure. Mr. Silver, just depending on the esthetics of a community, has a lot to do with the management of the HOA. Are you guys planning in-house HOA or using

710
02:30:19.109 --> 02:30:31.689
a management company? Obviously, I just needed I know this is in the early stages, but I just want to see when we get if and when we get these beautiful

711
02:30:31.689 --> 02:30:40.731
structures. Sure, there's going to be one that doesn't do something. There's going to be one that doesn't maintain it. And past developments like this

712
02:30:40.731 --> 02:30:52.643
that I have worked on. So not necessarily this one. It's professional management. Okay, so there's a professional management company that manages

713
02:30:52.643 --> 02:31:04.455
the HOA. They are board members that are live at the HOA, but they have a professional management company and that management company then contracts out the pond

714
02:31:04.455 --> 02:31:15.232
maintenance, the landscapers that are common areas are if you know, if they have to get, they're going to build a playground and they have to get some bids. They do that kind of

715
02:31:15.232 --> 02:31:26.043
work, right. And they'll also take a hand in enforcement. Correct? Correct. Yes. But typically for HOA, there's no shortage of volunteers for

716
02:31:26.043 --> 02:31:36.887
telling your neighbors. So there isn't. Thank you. Thank you. Any additional questions?

717
02:31:36.887 --> 02:31:46.897
Thank you for your presentation. Sure. If you have any questions, please let me know. Thank you sir. Thank you. Appreciate you

718
02:31:46.897 --> 02:31:57.274
guys. So that's the end of the. Actually staff gets a chance to make any comments on the applicants. No comments. Super.

719
02:31:57.274 --> 02:32:10.654
And is the moment for public comment. Name and address please. Lack is 514 Ashland

720
02:32:10.654 --> 02:32:20.731
Avenue. There were a lot of interesting questions but not enough digging. All right.

721
02:32:20.731 --> 02:32:34.078
There is a wildlife report, but it's from July of 2024. And as far as the geotechnical, can we go back to a picture where it

722
02:32:34.078 --> 02:32:48.192
shows the actual property, the one one more? No, there. Look at the site. It's all wooded,

723
02:32:48.192 --> 02:32:59.736
900 trees on that property. I don't know if any of y'all walked down by there, but it's heavily wooded and as it's been stated, it's high elevation. So

724
02:32:59.736 --> 02:33:08.946
to be honest with you, as far as the hurricane, if anything, people will probably go there because it's higher than other places in Tarpon, 900 trees are

725
02:33:08.946 --> 02:33:19.757
taken out, only 40 being left. Now you brought up a point about the geotechnical. Now, it's hard for me to read this because I got a small screen.

726
02:33:19.757 --> 02:33:29.500
Excuse me. Prior to construction location of any existing underground utilities, blah blah blah. Any material stockpile for reuse can be tested for conformance for

727
02:33:29.500 --> 02:33:42.046
later use. Relocate any existing utilities and such as is recommended as a minimum that the clearing operation extend to the depth needed to remove the material considered

728
02:33:42.046 --> 02:33:51.855
deleterious at least five feet beyond the proposed development area. Here's the important part. Deleterious materials to be removed include roots, organics,

729
02:33:51.855 --> 02:34:04.068
tree stumps or other buried or under surface or on surface debris. You got 900 trees. You're taking out 860. You're

730
02:34:04.068 --> 02:34:15.746
going to have a lot of roots and stumps. And then they want if you look at the elevations, everything is straight. So they're going to have to level that land, either bringing that

731
02:34:15.746 --> 02:34:27.157
30ft down to 15 and the 15 up to 25, I don't know, I didn't see any of those elevations. But you're going to have serious issues of fill and that

732
02:34:27.157 --> 02:34:38.402
stuff. Now it also goes on foundation recommendations on page. Let's see here. It's hard for me to read page ten under

733
02:34:38.402 --> 02:34:49.113
just before construction consideration, the proposed floor slabs may be may be safely supported as a slab on grade, provided any deleterious materials are removed or

734
02:34:49.113 --> 02:35:00.657
replaced with controlled structural fill. And it talks a lot about fill. You got to have compacting 95% water degraded. And I'm not even getting into

735
02:35:00.657 --> 02:35:08.965
the pavement stuff where it says, you got to have six inches of base, heavily traveled, eight, eight, eight, eight inches of base, you're

736
02:35:08.965 --> 02:35:22.212
going to be doing a major, major, major environmental change in this area. Now, can we go back to page seven? Go up

737
02:35:22.212 --> 02:35:32.623
where it's the one with the site plan or one more. One more there. No, go back to the previous one. Sorry. Now, Mr.

738
02:35:32.623 --> 02:35:44.501
Vesey's question about vacations and distant. I've been talking about opening up distance since 2002, and Doctor

739
02:35:44.501 --> 02:35:54.878
Diamandis, who came up here even before me about wanting to open up mirrors and distant. Now, Burke, that little straight up and down thing, that's. Burke if you look on it,

740
02:35:54.878 --> 02:36:06.189
that is being asked to vacate. Well, if you open up distant you could have that place has as a secondary access. You talk about wanting to have access

741
02:36:06.189 --> 02:36:18.001
the way their site is designed. You got a cul de sac and one out you. This can be an opportunity for a private partnership on those. Where

742
02:36:18.001 --> 02:36:28.812
Burke comes down to distant. Yeah, it's maybe about 200ft. There's four lots, two of those lots. Lots 20 and 18 are owned

743
02:36:28.812 --> 02:36:41.758
by the city. They own 17 and 19 is owned by the Rodriguezes. There's a private one in there in between. Perfect time to have a private partnership to

744
02:36:41.758 --> 02:36:52.268
open up that and have them contribute toward opening up distant. You've got to consider opening up distant. Yeah, you can put this project in and it won't affect distant, but

745
02:36:52.268 --> 02:37:05.916
you'll have a cul de sac and a dead end in their project. One last thing about the in the general Preparations site site

746
02:37:05.916 --> 02:37:16.426
should be cleared. Primarily includes removing any deleterious. Removing. Following the clearing operations, the entire site should be proof rolled. Then

747
02:37:16.426 --> 02:37:26.937
you got to. Vibratory rollers should not be used within 50ft of existing structures. Area within 50ft. You're going to have complaints from the people behind there when they're doing

748
02:37:26.937 --> 02:37:39.349
that rolling. That doesn't just affect this area. It vibrates. Lastly, about the ladies questions about springs, I

749
02:37:39.349 --> 02:37:50.961
don't know if many I'll know it further down south on Disston before you get to Klosterman on the west side in the easement, the Duke Easement city has a

750
02:37:50.961 --> 02:38:02.706
well there. Do you know that city has a well there? So there is water action in there because they did fill in the pond by a carrier, which also

751
02:38:02.706 --> 02:38:14.918
is spring fed. And if you look along the trail that's full of water, there is water, groundwater there. You're going to be doing a lot of disrupting. I don't disagree that this

752
02:38:14.918 --> 02:38:26.562
property can be used to provide housing. As the gentleman said, it's going to be market rate. But then the Mr. Morris, I believe, asked, well, who's going to do it? And if you read

753
02:38:26.562 --> 02:38:37.007
in the backup Dr. Horton's affiliated. But if you read about Lakewood Ranch and some of these other Babcock ranches, they'll go in, they'll do the site prep, and then they sell

754
02:38:37.007 --> 02:38:48.752
the lots off D.R. Horton or Lennar or Dream Homes. So are you going to really have any consistency, or is D.R. Horton going to do the whole project? Sounds like they're just going

755
02:38:48.752 --> 02:38:59.329
to do the site work and then sell the lots off. There's a lot of stuff that's not being fully investigated, and I know I've been on this board before.

756
02:38:59.329 --> 02:39:11.174
You don't get your backup till what? What when did it come out? June 8th, 10th, whatever a week. And y'all are busy. You don't have a chance to relent. So I'm

757
02:39:11.174 --> 02:39:19.816
just here to let you know there's a lot of things you got to be cautious about, but you can. And if you go to the next screen where it shows the site

758
02:39:19.816 --> 02:39:32.029
plan, yeah, that one. So yeah, the housing authority opens up. But if you looked at the previous one, why couldn't they just use the roadway that was

759
02:39:32.029 --> 02:39:42.673
already dedicated and just build the sites along that instead of having to create this whole loop and boundaries and this and that. So I don't

760
02:39:42.673 --> 02:39:56.453
know, it just again, you as our planning board have to look out for what we and our comprehensive plan and what we want in our city as versus,

761
02:39:56.453 --> 02:40:07.664
again, companies coming from outside taking advantage of property available to put in what they want versus what it really would be best to match

762
02:40:07.664 --> 02:40:20.577
with the needs of the community. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your public comment. Is there any additional public

763
02:40:20.577 --> 02:40:34.691
comment? Hearing none. We'll close the public comment portion of our show of the meeting. Would anyone like to

764
02:40:34.691 --> 02:40:46.469
rebuttal and close to the public comment, either the city staff or the applicant? No thanks. No. Okay, then we're

765
02:40:46.469 --> 02:40:58.048
going to close that presentation. And this would be a moment that the board deliberates the evidence criteria, motion seconds, and

766
02:40:58.048 --> 02:41:10.660
the clerk will make a roll call. We're ready for a motion. Well, Mr. Chairman, I would make that motion to approve application 2024-34. Resolution 2026-23 for

767
02:41:10.660 --> 02:41:20.771
approval of the site plan as presented this evening. That would include the staff conditions one through eight. It would also include trading that sidewalk portion for the

768
02:41:20.771 --> 02:41:33.683
crosswalk as a as a recommended. And we have a second. Seconded it. Yep. Miss Wade seconded it. Yes, yes. Oh I'm sorry, did you

769
02:41:33.683 --> 02:41:44.127
want another second? Nope. She just got in real fast. Okay. Did you get down that down there? Okay, super. So we have

770
02:41:44.127 --> 02:41:55.071
a motion to accept as presented. We have a second. The moment for board discussion. Chairman,

771
02:41:55.071 --> 02:42:08.585
I would like to see if we would add some recommendation that nothing would interrupt a disdain connection or maybe

772
02:42:08.585 --> 02:42:21.331
recommendation to connect. A part of this. At least amend the the motion. I just want to I do agree that I think that

773
02:42:21.331 --> 02:42:30.907
road should be connected, and then nothing that we're doing now would prevent it or have to come back for a waiver if

774
02:42:30.907 --> 02:42:42.885
necessary. That, or just ask for a recommendation to connect. That's my opinion. What is proper procedure since we

775
02:42:42.885 --> 02:42:50.393
already have a pending motion? Well, we'll finish the discussion first. Everybody will get a chance to weigh in and we'll kind of discuss that.

776
02:42:50.393 --> 02:43:03.707
So thank you for that thought. Continuing on any board discussion. Appreciate the comments about the wildlife

777
02:43:03.707 --> 02:43:16.219
report. I did read the the tree report, and I noticed that there's actually a substantial amount of biomass being removed. That's invasive as well. So I think it's important to keep a

778
02:43:16.219 --> 02:43:29.266
lot of that into perspective. I see that they're replacing the removing 992in total. They're replacing 202 based on 101

779
02:43:29.266 --> 02:43:40.810
healthy trees at two inch centers. So what I like to do is just make sure that we're not affecting not having an

780
02:43:40.810 --> 02:43:51.687
adverse outcome due to the environmental impact there. I think the project itself is a good one. I think we want to

781
02:43:51.687 --> 02:44:02.766
make sure I the wildlife report again, it was from a while ago, but it reported that no species threatened the species were

782
02:44:02.766 --> 02:44:14.611
were there. That's the facts that we have been given. I would like to see more biomass replaced in the project itself.

783
02:44:14.611 --> 02:44:25.822
I did see that they have some select trees in the report, which is nice. I just want to make sure that we're doing justice to the environmental and aspect of it as well. So

784
02:44:25.822 --> 02:44:38.101
I'm not sure how to recommend that, but maybe we throw in a recommendation for. Maybe 10% more biomass that could be

785
02:44:38.101 --> 02:44:49.279
added and replaced. We're replacing invasive species, which is important as well. So we're taking out the Brazilian pepper trees, the camphors that are in there. We can replace it

786
02:44:49.279 --> 02:45:00.657
with healthier biomass. So just something to consider. Maybe we make a recommendation for some kind of impact, maybe even in

787
02:45:00.657 --> 02:45:09.733
the stormwater handling in that area instead of just a plain field or anything like that. We could give that some

788
02:45:09.733 --> 02:45:18.541
consideration. Those are real thoughtful words, and we can take that into account, Mr.

789
02:45:18.541 --> 02:45:33.423
Turley. I think. I think what some concerning me is the age of the environmental report or

790
02:45:33.423 --> 02:45:47.537
wildlife report in two years, who knows what's there. That's unfortunate. But at the same time, I'm trying to also

791
02:45:47.537 --> 02:46:01.251
remember that. This is sort of a precursor. They're not doing a full we want to do this tomorrow site plan. They're just doing enough. And they can

792
02:46:01.251 --> 02:46:09.125
make legitimate representations to any purchaser. That would be my understanding of the

793
02:46:09.125 --> 02:46:22.105
situation I. Yeah, I, I would express some of the same concerns as. Mr. Collins. I'm

794
02:46:22.105 --> 02:46:34.116
sorry. Do I have it? Collins thank you. Mr. Collins. Brought up and the wildlife, the sidewalks, the future extension

795
02:46:34.116 --> 02:46:42.692
of distant. All those things are important. This, of course, is therefore premature. But I

796
02:46:42.692 --> 02:46:55.338
don't know if it's our I mean. They'll have to come back, I presume, with an updated site plan. So at this point, I guess

797
02:46:55.338 --> 02:47:06.715
my question to the rest of the board members is, is this something preliminary that we are doing? Because if it's not preliminary and it's something

798
02:47:06.715 --> 02:47:18.495
serious that's going to happen. I would have different questions. Okay. Board comments

799
02:47:18.495 --> 02:47:30.006
to the right. I think at this stage she's correct. We just need to approve that. And then we can add a lot of conditions on when it comes to the board,

800
02:47:30.006 --> 02:47:38.915
and there'll be more than one reading and will be chances to say, what is that exterior made out of? What is they can add a

801
02:47:38.915 --> 02:47:50.560
lot of conditions along the way. This is. A very preliminary step in all that. If I

802
02:47:50.560 --> 02:47:59.969
understand the process. But at the same time, I don't want to be remiss. I don't want to not take care of something or not address something, rather, that

803
02:47:59.969 --> 02:48:13.183
should be addressed. So perhaps leadership could direct us in that vein. Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Rockland. Thank you. Yeah. I

804
02:48:13.183 --> 02:48:24.394
appreciate the public comments about the environmental concerns, the wildlife, the trees. It's it's an unfortunate cost of progress. And there are people who don't call it

805
02:48:24.394 --> 02:48:35.572
progress. There are people that do. And there's a lot of us in the middle that try to balance it as was brought up. You know, a lot of the trees are not really trees. We've dealt with Brazilian peppers in our HOA

806
02:48:35.572 --> 02:48:45.648
and at a very high cost and mandated by the city, and it creates barren area. And we then fill that in. And we were commended by the city arborist

807
02:48:45.648 --> 02:48:58.561
and such for, for doing that, exceeding what was required. So I would hope that maybe we could include that condition, that any other areas,

808
02:48:58.561 --> 02:49:09.038
especially around the retention pond and such, be considered for additional plantings, that helps to to mitigate some of

809
02:49:09.038 --> 02:49:19.548
the the impact there. I believe that city staff answered the right of way question. As far as the distant extension, I don't think that you know, and

810
02:49:19.548 --> 02:49:29.525
you can never be 1,000% crystal ball. Crystal ball. Sure. But I don't think that they would need more area from the east

811
02:49:29.525 --> 02:49:41.337
side of that proposal. It would mostly come from the West and Duke. And getting Duke to compromise, of course, is usually arduous, as I found out,

812
02:49:41.337 --> 02:49:51.814
is we have a right of way run through part of our community. And that's that's a bridge that needs to be crossed, in my opinion, sooner rather than

813
02:49:51.814 --> 02:50:04.093
later. As a former first responder and municipal official, that was brought up many, many times to the various commission boards, and the county did a study on it.

814
02:50:04.093 --> 02:50:15.638
Forward Pinellas has it in their their wheelhouse to make recommendations to the county board. And I think we need a multi-pronged approach to make that happen sooner rather than

815
02:50:15.638 --> 02:50:27.884
later. Also, the recommendation by the consultant for the Parks and RECs Committee has a lot of possible plans for the solid

816
02:50:27.884 --> 02:50:40.029
waste site, which would include immense plantings, trees and shrubs and things like that. And whether that's five years down the road or ten years down

817
02:50:40.029 --> 02:50:50.239
the road or I make is, yeah, we lost you. Yeah, well, there is hope for the future. As far as all those things go, it's just

818
02:50:50.239 --> 02:51:03.853
a commitment. So I think that I'd be willing to amend my motion to include a galvanizing of the right of way for distant

819
02:51:03.853 --> 02:51:14.697
extension possibility, and also put a condition in that the applicant explore any other areas that additional trees,

820
02:51:14.697 --> 02:51:24.640
hardwood trees can be planted. So that's why I would add that to the staff conditions sidewalk for the crosswalk. And now include the considerate,

821
02:51:24.640 --> 02:51:35.685
the great consideration of additional trees and galvanization by the city staff, and maybe county planning at the right of way for a future

822
02:51:35.685 --> 02:51:48.531
distant extension is set in stone. Okay, did everybody hear the last words that Mr. Rocklin was able to get out? Can you hear him up here? Yeah. Okay.

823
02:51:48.531 --> 02:51:59.875
Is it okay if I take a moment and call up to it to have him check that mic? Because we do need to have that on record, because that was a formal motion was about to say, if not, I probably need to repeat it

824
02:51:59.875 --> 02:52:10.086
into maybe her microphone just okay. So okay, so the motion for resolution 2026-23 based on application 2020 434. Can I

825
02:52:10.086 --> 02:52:20.796
interrupt? Sure. Sorry, is that I, I had some comments to make, so maybe you could hold that revision of motion because I want I, I'm going to try to

826
02:52:20.796 --> 02:52:31.774
hope to clarify and pull some strings together. So Miss Mcniece is sometimes in the plan set. When they're provided,

827
02:52:31.774 --> 02:52:44.287
they would include a planting or the, you know, the part that says where all the trees and shrubs are going to go that page, either I can't see it or I can't find it, or it's too

828
02:52:44.287 --> 02:52:55.198
early in the process for that. Could you is there a reason that there is not a the tree. The tree scope. Why is it not

829
02:52:55.198 --> 02:53:06.309
there? Yep. Yeah. Thank you. I just couldn't get it out. Yeah. They are showing the trees to be left in the open space park.

830
02:53:06.309 --> 02:53:18.120
We. I guess technically we could have required a specific landscape plan, but basically the requirement for planting is two trees per townhome lot and

831
02:53:18.120 --> 02:53:30.433
20% of the pond perimeter, stormwater pond. It was just felt that if they put specific spots, those. Those might change. But we could have we could have shown that that was

832
02:53:30.433 --> 02:53:43.346
in your staff report. The the townhome lots probably they're fairly small. So two trees is probably about the maximum for those could plant more on the

833
02:53:43.346 --> 02:53:53.856
perimeter code requirement is 20% of the pond. But there could be a chance to do that or. Okay, okay. That's good. I think this was a good question.

834
02:53:53.856 --> 02:54:04.200
It was good to be brought up. And I and I'm going to follow up on just 1 or 2 more. So. There was not a landscape plan submitted because there wasn't

835
02:54:04.200 --> 02:54:16.145
one asked for, because the concept is that it's so simple that we don't need one. But that drainage pond, as new

836
02:54:16.145 --> 02:54:26.455
board member has said, turns into the we all know this. We've all seen it, right? It's a big pile of dirt, and then it's a big pile of grass. And golly, I think that this might

837
02:54:26.455 --> 02:54:36.198
warrant a landscape plan. And this is going to coattail on the revises. Hey, let's get a landscape plan. Because if we don't ask, we don't get. And we all know this from past

838
02:54:36.198 --> 02:54:46.676
experience. When the tractors get in there, it's horrific. In the beginning. It just is what it is. It's rough. It's going to be a big pile of sand. Okay,

839
02:54:46.676 --> 02:54:58.554
so we will possible request for a true landscape plan that meets or exceeds the minimum requirements. In addition, I

840
02:54:58.554 --> 02:55:10.399
want to go to the other request. This distant thing that is, I'm concerned about. In Miss Mcniece in your magic fingers,

841
02:55:10.399 --> 02:55:20.910
sometimes there are utility easements that are delineated on certain GIS maps. For example, on the single family residences that are right along.

842
02:55:20.910 --> 02:55:30.619
Dustin. Right now, there might be a utility easement along the front. They're normal and typical on the front of a property. Sometimes they're 20ft. Not saying there is or

843
02:55:30.619 --> 02:55:44.266
there isn't. It Makes sense. In the spirit of protecting the future, possible expansion and connection of distant. That whatever utility easement that

844
02:55:44.266 --> 02:55:55.645
is existing on single family residences located at the top right hand corner. And I think that's the northwest corner of the property that we make accommodation now, simply by

845
02:55:55.645 --> 02:56:06.689
requesting an easement, otherwise known as a right of way reservation. No harm, no foul along the entire extension of the property up through and

846
02:56:06.689 --> 02:56:18.734
including the stormwater pond. So that should the city, at some future time, want to do some work there, we're given the right to be able to address that, that that utility

847
02:56:18.734 --> 02:56:27.309
easement or right of way easement, if it's used or not used, that would address that gentleman's concern. A actual

848
02:56:27.309 --> 02:56:39.955
landscape plan would address a couple of concerns. Anybody anybody's concerned not addressed? I don't think so.

849
02:56:39.955 --> 02:56:50.332
Okay. Mr. Rocklin, would you like to revise your motion? Yes. Thank you. Well, I have a working mic. So the motion, as revised, would read for

850
02:56:50.332 --> 02:57:02.311
approval of application 2024-34. Resolution 2026-23 to include staff conditions one through eight. The trading of the sidewalk continuance

851
02:57:02.311 --> 02:57:15.224
requirement for the crosswalk, which is warranted, and that it also include a landscape plan that exceeds by some reasonable

852
02:57:15.224 --> 02:57:26.001
number what is required currently by code, and that there is exploration of whether it's a utility easement or an increased dedicated right of

853
02:57:26.001 --> 02:57:38.747
way along distant, which is the west side of this property that either that that provides for the possibility of the future expansion of distant, should

854
02:57:38.747 --> 02:57:49.492
there not be cooperation from Duke on the other side? Do we have a second? Second.

855
02:57:49.492 --> 02:57:58.099
Excellent. We have a motion. We have a second. Any additional discussion from the board? Hearing none. We're ready for

856
02:57:58.099 --> 02:58:10.646
roll call, please. Miss Wade. Yes. Mr. Morris. Yes. Mr. Collins. Yes. Miss. Early. Yes.

857
02:58:10.646 --> 02:58:22.858
Mr. Rocklin. Yes. Vice chair. Vessey. Yes. Motion carries.

858
02:58:22.858 --> 02:58:37.306
Thank you for all your work. Thank you all. Okay. At this time? Is that the end of our business? Miss Mcniece one

859
02:58:37.306 --> 02:58:48.017
staff comment. Yeah, I lost, I lost that page a while ago. Okay. Staff comments. Just a reminder for anyone who has not

860
02:58:48.017 --> 02:58:58.894
watched the quasi judicial and sunshine training that Attorney Saltzman conducted the video, please go ahead and do that. Sign your affidavit and get

861
02:58:58.894 --> 02:59:10.171
that to the clerk. There are actually two members that they notified me that have not done it yet. So I'm assuming you

862
02:59:10.171 --> 02:59:20.816
know who you are. I sent it back out today. The link, I don't know. Don't look at me.

863
02:59:20.816 --> 02:59:33.495
Okay. Any any board comments? I do have one. I did bring it up before the meeting. I just I was driving by this site plan

864
02:59:33.495 --> 02:59:46.008
on the screen. I noticed that there wasn't any public hearing, public notice signs that were up and I, I found out they blew down in a storm. But I think

865
02:59:46.008 --> 02:59:58.320
it's important that they get put back up because it was two days ago. There was no signs. Drove all the way around it. But I think I do think it's important. We we do let the

866
02:59:58.320 --> 03:00:08.163
public know. And I know postcards went out, but I always read those signs no matter where they are. So that's just my take on that.

867
03:00:08.163 --> 03:00:20.609
Thank you. Kind of a big deal, to be perfectly honest. Well, and people expect that they expect the signs. Yeah. Well, if I had done my job better, I

868
03:00:20.609 --> 03:00:32.855
would have asked if it had been properly public noticed, because that is a critical feature of all the work that we do. And, well, I'm I mean, I was told all postcards went out

869
03:00:32.855 --> 03:00:40.495
to affected areas, but it's something that, you know, I like seeing. Yeah, that's all.

870
03:00:40.495 --> 03:01:09.725
Agreed. Any more board comments? Well, then. 925 adjourned.