e e e e e e e Booth so good evening everybody the May 23rd 2024 Temple Terrace Board of adjust meeting is now called to order would you please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right uh board members uh would roll call would you please state your name for the record Dr Mark mckenny byon long Stan cope Tony Anderson Eric kraits all right thank you have all the board members received the minutes of the March 28th 2024 meeting yes okay are there any corrections or addition to these minutes there was a yellow highlighted typo I believe somewhere along the top of one of the pages I'm not sure if that got redacted remov okay yeah I not all right great um do I have a motion to approve the minutes so move I have a motion do I have a second second second okay all in favor say I I I any opposed all right the motion passes accepting the meeting minutes for the May 23rd 2024 board meeting all right at this time I will briefly explain the board of adjustment procedures for tonight's meeting please listen and if anyone wishing to speak on any of the matters discussed tonight has questions please ask after I finish explaining the procedures the variance request will be heard and the board May approve approve with conditions or deny the requested variance tonight alternatively the board may continue a case to a specified date upon the request of the owner or applicant a staff report detailing the variance request in the staff's recommendation will be presented to the board by Community Development planner mik Hall did I get it right this time Malik Malik okay thank you my better closer than last time the board May then ask questions of the staff the applicant will present their application and answer any questions from the board next the board will hear from other persons wishing to speak on the application comments should be limited to relevant factors the applicant will be allowed to respond to comments from the public the board will then close the public hearing for discussion on the petition upon no further discussion by the board the chair will ask for a motion the motion must State the reasons for granting or denying the application staff will provide written correspondence to the applicant and owners after this meeting regarding the approval or denial of the application if approved the owner May submit the appropriate building permit applications or the city May proceed in re with reviewing building permit applications that may have already been filed as a result of the board approval of the variance however please note that any action by this board is not final for 30 days and if the applicant moves forward prior to the expiration of the 30 days they do so at their own risk does anyone have any questions about the variance process at this time all right all persons wishing to speak or be heard on the variance petitions tonight please stand up and take the oath and be sworn okay do you swear or affirm that the testimony or evidence your about to give or present is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth right City attorney shasham will ask if board members have had any expar Communications um before I do that I did want to mention just for um if anybody's looking at this agenda carefully it's this item is listed under rearings it should this is not a rehearing because no decision was made last time this is a actually a continued case from last time um if any member of the board has had any expart a communication either oral or written with anyone concerning this application um this is your time to please State for the record what that is if you've received anything in writing you will need to provide a copy of that to the clerk for the record um if you've received any whether it's uh in writing or orally um you need to State now uh with whom you had that communication when that communication took place and the sum and substance of that communication and I'll start directly to uh my left and uh no no no no yes so is this song okay so I have I have spoken with sna I go to a open house occasionally and I met her at one that she was um involved in and we started talking about her situation because we discuss remodeling occasionally and she brought up her home which she was working on so uh I know a little bit about the uh it was I believe three or four months ago I'm guesstimating could have been longer um and uh so she she discussed extensively the the desire for the pool and drainage issues so I have a bit of a background with that and for that reason I think it be more seemly if I recuse myself at this point because not because I have a strong opinion about the case or uh but but I I feel like since there are four competent members of the board here who don't have that um prior involvement uh or knowledge I think it be fine um trust you guys and you're going to do a great job so um thank you there will be a short form that you'll need to fill out um not right this at this moment but you'll need to provide that to the clerk and the clerk can provide you with that form I'm going to I'm going to go and join the audience now so thank you thank you you B okay the Temple Terrace Board of adjustment will now open the public hearing on the variance ba 24-1 for 319 Brentwood Avenue is submitted by Suna Khan the staff presentation will be by Community Development planner Malik Hall please make the staff's presentation regarding variance request ba 2401 good evening board chair members of the public the applicant and staff perfect so we are here today May 23rd 2024 for the contins for variance request 319 brenway Drive folio 20894 which is ba 24-1 the owner an applicant is samna Khan and her agent is Abdul warus professional engineer the zoning district for her subject property is r10 single family residential the flood zone for this property is X the acreage is approximately 40 acres or 17442 Square ft the existing variance for the property is a principal structure sidey yard setback reduction for the West property line which is known as ba 22-05 characteristics of the property are two-story home 4,178 square foot home that includes a garage and a driveway this is the aerial of the property including a front facade so you can see the extent of the um lot coverage of the property and the extent of the the the driveway the rear concrete the walkway and such additional Aerials a bit of a overhead angled aerial and then a closer image of the driveway so the original we're going back to the first public hearing the original variant request was to increase the lot coverage maximum for from 47.5% to 52% the original proposed pull air area was 9115 ft with original dimensions of 40t and 8 in x 22 ft and 6 in the permissible pool area on the property is 123 ft which is approximately 10 ft and 3 in by 12 ft or any combination thereof that would equal 123 Square ft that was the original the next slide will show you the uh her revised plan and the uh updated variants request Miss K is now requesting T ing an increase from 47.5% to 49.9% she has reduced the original request the proposed pool area now including the heat pump and the pump and filter which was on the previous plan on the previous request but those numbers were not um added to the the original request so now those are included so the padding for that is included as well with that updated amount it equals 831 squ ft so we went from 915 to 831 the dimensions have gone from 40t and 8 in by 22 ft and 6 in to 40t and 8 in by 20 ft the permissible pool area on the property is still 123 ft because lot coverage values have not changed to our knowledge there has not been any changes in the on in the improvements this is overhead this is the survey of the property for the updated side plan so everything we're looking at now is just updated for this continuance for her revised plan the lot coverage maximum is 8,285 square ft for the property if that's so that's based on the 47.5% so 47.5% of the property is 8,285 Ft the existing coverage on the property is 8,162 square ft which leaves a remaining of 123 ft so that's a permissible area without the variance the proposed pool area as we said as we just said is 831 Square ft so the proposed lot coverage is 8580 ft so the existing minus what she's will to remove so in order to decrease the amount she's requ questing she has not only reduced the pool but has also reduced the proposed pool but has also uh committed to removing some some coverage some concrete on her property the amount she's willing to remove is 413 Square ft so you remove 413 from the existing and then add the 831 proposed and it comes down to 8,580 Ft 8580 ft is 49 .9% of the property's lock coverage the amount exceeding the maximum is 295 Square ft so as we just said the original lot coverage maximum is 8,285 to get to 49.1 n% it'd be an additional 295 ft which is more than double of the permissible now what's permissible now is 123 and the amount exceeding the maximum is 295 the finer details for the sections that she's want to remove is section one shows 104.5 Square ft she's will to cut under section one uh section two 104 Square ft Section 3 188.50 S ft and then section 4 16 sare ft all this does add up to 43 ft this is the updated pull specs we have as mentioned before the reduction from 22 ft and 6 in to 20 ft but the width is the same it's still 40 ft and 8 in in width and just to make sure this is known the also included section shows the bubbler and umbrella sleeve on the Sund deck brick pavers and Screen walls on a 12x 17 covered patio two floating pool safety alarms so a um a screening actually miss Conan is that a screen enclosure to be exact I okay so that is required for a pool just to make it clear in because I wasn't known uh by code we required some sort of of safety barrier you know for any um I guess any that may end up getting into the pool whether it be someone that's a resident of the property or someone to walk onto the property so that is required and that does also would be in the the um footprint of the proposed pool so it wouldn't add any loot coverage it's also a screened enclosure so to my if it is a screen enclosure it wouldn't add a lot coverage if it's if it's not screened in the roof even if it's a solid roof it' be within the um confines of the proposed so it would not add so I just want to make it clear that the screened enclosure or patio covering whatever it may be as part of the proposed pool would not add any additional lot coverage so I was mentioned before is that these single family residents on her property two stories um 4,178 Square ft has a garage has a driveway and it's it it meets the reasonable use of her property for the drainage concern that was brought up last public hearing the updated plan does not include a Burman Swale so as part of engineering's comments they have now been separated from the actual proposal engine division's comments on the new plan are it appears there are no public RightWay improvements and no utility or drainage easement impacts thus there is no involvement with from engineering until we receive a post construction survey for the driveway because part of engineering's original um response was they need a post construction survey or a survey for elevations to make sure that if there's any discrepancy between what was done in the past from the city Temple Terrace and what was done on their property they can see what's the issues there so I just want to make that clear that the drainage concern is not attached to this variance at this time based on the applicant's revised proposal she has up to 536 Square F feet without the need for variance now I say this because she has clearly shown that she's W to cut concrete so if she were to cut the concrete she has in this proposal but not go for with the variance she's able to have a pool that's 536 ft that's that's over a 20x 20 pool there appears to be no hardship the reason is because you are able to remove lock coverage from your property there is no there's nothing preventing you from removing lot coverage from your property to accommodate for the pool any grievances result from the applicant's opposition to further reduce improvements contributing to lot coverage or proposed lot coverage or any combination thereof we've been shown that this is possible that even if if if it even if the section that she's stated that she's not willing to remove is not accounted for there's other sections of her property that she can remove lot coverage and there's still enough space to accommodate for even the original pool size that is the end of my presentation unless you would like to go over the findings of fact uh let me do do this let me start uh I'm going to start on my left and see if you have any we see if there's any questions from the board and we'll just go left to right tonight I just want to be a little bit clear I'm sorry about the drainage issue I know we talked about in the past so you said it's not included in this variant correct because this is a issue of lot coverage the drainage does not based off our Land Development code does not impact the variance because the drainage issue prevents that one section or at least according applicant the drainage issue prevents that one section that slab on the side from being removed but she has other areas that she can remove lot coverage to the point of still having reasonable use of her home reasonable use of a driveway with a garage so with all this considered if she were to even remove more lot coverage she can have the pool she wants it just has to come from somewhere else that was the only question I thank you um yeah so I just want to understand correctly so basically your argument is that you can that she has that there's enough extra concrete around the house and driveway where she could slash enough to build the 202x 40 pool if she were to take away enough concrete the original pool and of course the reduced pool yes okay um and then if she doesn't want to remove that your argument is that she could still build a 20 x 20 pool 20 x 20 is only if she removes what's proposed in this um revised plan okay got ites so removing this amount of concrete she could only build a pull up to 2020 all right so real quick I just want to ask you um do you have did you do have does the city have any research of a 20x 20 pool is that's the size they come in that's like a real pool that could exist research um we've we you can do a quick Google search that 20 by 20 pools are are realistic sizes for pools um even for a personal pool I I don't know if it's modest I don't have a pool myself but CU what I don't know is if pools only come in 20 x 40 or maybe they come in 20 by 20 I just like I'm not really sure what's like the reasonable I is is this is this a concrete pool I mean this being dug in Port yeah so it'll be it can be it'll be whatever size they want to put it in yeah just I was this may have some context here I was trying to finish my question I was asking though if um okay that if basically so all right I I think I understand so basically you're saying a 20 by 20 that would be a good alternative um would you like to see the plan again would that to give you any perspective uh no that's okay I just was going to ask if the city like if do the so do are you aware if those exist in Temple Terrace though pools that are 20 by 20 I've seen based off of just uh property Aerials when I do my my uh stat my uh permitting review there are some sizable pools in our jurisdiction 20 x 20 U maybe 20 22 by 10 like there are VAR a really simple question because I don't know how big they're supposed to be that was really what I was trying to figure out all right thank you okay Dr Kenny I have no questions all right if there's no further questions from the board regarding this request thank you very much we'll move on we'll go with the applicant's presentation um if you would please come forward state your name and address for the record and make your presentation uh you will have 15 minutes hello again I'm S Khan owner of 319 frw drive this is AB professional engineer um I want to clarify something we keep talking about that 123 ft that's a 10x 12 pool it's not because there's a decking that goes around it because you don't just have bable pool um the pool area includes a sunshelf and a hot tub because that's what would work for my family so it's not just the pool I've discussed several times with the pool company when we're reducing it what is considered a decent sized pool I do think it needs to fit the home that's what I would like I've reduced it already um the reason we didn't give engineering the elevations they wanted we're all intelligent enough to understand that even if there's been a half an inch drop in my driveway from when before from since I ped uh you know since I P the concrete the influx of water coming in is not going to be affected by half an inch we have the volume of what 20 pools coming in it's not going to make any difference so the situation remains where it is so you guys had basically the situation hasn't changed like we're all here last time so I'm not going to I don't want to bore anyone um so I made this reduction thinking this is you guys said if you can come back with something smaller we went from 4 and 1 half% over to 1.69% over what I also did I was allowed to present one option we actually handed in three I just want to run through those quickly and I have them printed out if you need them but the first one was that we said that we could I could leave a $110,000 bond with the city and when the drainage issue was resolved then you know I'd have to cut back otherwise you know that's my bond gone there's another variance where I cut back more on the side driveway which only takes us 1% over it's not my ideal scenario but I'm doing my best to work with my future needs with me and my children and also protecting my proper from a drainage issue that we all know exists I have them printed off before yeah sure sure there's option one and there's an option three double Sid thank you of course Abdul might have something to say to ask no just I just wanted to point out that the drainage issu is kind of woven into this I mean I didn't want to browbeat what we kind of discussed the last meeting um the more you cut closer to the house the bigger the problem gets for her so in option three I'm willing to it's still 7 ft away it's still protecting the property we've discussed it 100 times over I just don't want to take the risk of a foundation failure option two is still preferable but I wanted to show you my willingness to do what I need to do and I might also add that that the other jurisdictions like the city of Tampa and the county they allow for mitigation in terms of creating you know swells to capture sure that additional runoff that might happen because of you know 300 ft of impervious area so we present it to the city the option that we will completely retain any excess run off so there's not going to be an adverse impact surrounding properties the first time this went through actually D Dallas um Dallas Foss his comments included the mitigation Pond and then for some reason it just got swept over when we were here the last time you're if you're finished I'll be happy to open to the board the question I want to make sure that you've had a chance to say everything that you want to say for not completely understanding you'll have a chance for rebuttal and everything else as well but uh okay so at this time are there any questions from the board uh Dr mckenny I I think the options that she she provided explains it uh clearly so I mean looking at the material she provided is detailed so I think I'm able to uh discern a decision or get the information needed from this information okay I just have to ask um mostly I mean I guess I'm looking towards option three as your most viable one that um considering the fact that you've given us three options one of which is a minimum the other two actually require you to have more concrete unfortunately I think we're being that we see that every time somebody proposes is a better plan during these things that works it kind of spoils the other ones so looking at opt that's happened in other things before where the contractor got up and said that there was a better way to do it we like oh no now we can't vote Yes on this but going forwards I was going to ask what is your argument that you can't reduce 1% of lot coverage while using option three like why is it that you can't find 1% more to get rid of I don't I have parked cars on the side where there excess dri way I have four kids my oldest is 15 she oh I'm so sorry okay I like being on c um uh I have four children they're all going to be driving soon I plan for them to stay with me you know until they finish their undergrad at USF so I they're going to be with me for that long we have two garage spaces I want them to feel safe and comfortable and have a place to park on my driveway versus the street okay so hypothetically I just I just F her thought what's more important cars in a drive way or the pool both I I mean I I don't want to the thing is I wouldn't even be choosing right had we not a drainage issue from the city I wouldn't have had to make a choice I offered to cut the whole slab he he stopped me because of the foundation issues I'd already spent money remediating when I bought the house no I have a question is it's this is even though I'm not sure that multiple cars in the driveway is a hardship to the land to be truthful but I do have a question just to one wondering can these parts cars be parked on the street in inad of the driveway this her neighbor's park on the street it's a curved street it's it's a dead trap you can't see cars coming from is it legal to is there any law telling them that they can't park there well we will also just so you know I wanted actually a circular driveway and that was stopped because Glenn Oaks comes out directly in front and that was deemed to be a risk no I understood we're talking about cars not on the driveway on the street which the which is the alleged death trap is it legal for for them to be there park there yeah but you can't park your car on the street there's some code for more than 24 hours so then what does that okay that that's what I'm asking so you're aware of a code that is in place that would make that where they can't keep them there yeah but I'm not I'm not the code person please remember that this is just what I've read in passing so okay I've never heard of this before that's why I was asking yeah okay I believe that the car has to be moved within 24 hours okay so is there a way for you to physically fit the cars onto your driveway even without that extra chunk not with I mean then there would be cars stacked up so if the person in the garage wants to leave now everyone has to get up and reverse out so no it would not be conducive so I wented the circular driveway okay all right I think I understand thank you if I could interrupt a moment I don't know that these all these options were submitted to staff for for their review and consideration and comment before now I can say that as the City attorney I would definitely be recommending to the my client the city that we don't be accepting shity bonds for this and I would also be recommending to the city that any removal of concrete that's supposed to happen happens prior to any permit for building a pool we I would recommend not giving a permit to build any pool until the concrete is removed can I can I make a point to to to the um to the attorneys or to the city's legal council would would you even press the city to like remedy the drainage problem I mean would you uh would you be kind enough to recommend to the city that they fix the problem I mean I don't I don't seem uh to see your enthusiasm to you know directed in that you know uh manner I have drainage problems too so you know this is not a unique thing to this property so the applicant can come in front of City Council herself and ask and tell them about the drainage removal or or the drainage issue but right now we're I don't think that staff is even looking at the all the concrete down the side we're discussing the car or the the driveway that was poured by the applicant that she chose to pour I'm just kind of you know making a point Counterpoint about you insisting that the concrete be removed when she's like you know no that's only promising to like you know place a bond with the city Only The Logical thing it shows where her heart is it shows where her heart is no that's logical thing to do that we don't we don't accept that a thing be done on a promise that something's going to happen we're not going to we're not going to like Drive between the cones and between the rules we're not those kind of people you know I managed like five counties well and I'm going to I I don't think anybody in in here the city or anywhere else is asking you to do anything like that we certainly would not do that and I would not condone that as I don't think anybody else sitting here would I mean we're you know as the board we have things that we can and things that we cannot do some of the things that you would like to see that would be up to the city commission we can't do those things um and we're very we are we're we're having to work within the scope of what we're allowed to legally do you know I mean and I will say this I'm working with this board everybody wants to help where we can I mean we want to do we want everybody to have what they can but we've got to be within the rules because that's that's what we have to do and you know even even if we passionately agree with you we can't violate the rules so I I just just to go on on that premise and I understand that there's drainage issues and everything else but those and and I understand you have brought that forth and I think the board understands the point on that but any conversations with the city about how to remedy that it probably separate from from this hearing so I'm give you I just want to get through that I promise I'm going to turn it back over I promise okay so um you know I I think the board I think we're good on the drainage issues um my only concern is the options that were presented here uh is uh the city hasn't had an opportunity to research or provide I get for L better term yes sir the applicant was told that there there she could put forth only one one option okay well my concern is okay maybe um the city has not been allowed to to do their due diligence or do their their homework if you will the research into the viable options of the other the other options that presented here I'm not I'm not saying I don't want that but I just think it would be prudent for for our our staff what city staff to go ahead and look into those vi the viability of those options to ensure that everything is is is uh is koser for for lack of a bit term if I could just speak real quick I just would say that we're supposed to only consider the evidence that's here that would mean that the considering outside stuff I'm not sure that would be necessarily appropriate to do like the outside research on it well they've also had ample time and all fairness all all options got presented together the other thing I wanted to say um back to the city attorney I let's just say you you want all the slab cut before we start the work I'm trying to uh be efficient with my C as well my plan is when I cut the slab whatever needs to be cut I'm also going to cut the front part of the driveway and I have to repour concrete and raise it and I'm going to raise it a little bit higher than it was before and then I'm going to still see if we have a drainage problem he's brought someone around to give a quote I'm waiting for someone I had to cancel I had a sick K but I have those things in place the point is I cannot do that work because they're going to be coming with all the pool equipment or the pool trucks whatever I can't have a newly ped driveway it's going to take some time to cure I I do have a question for you real quick just hypothetically assuming that if we were to say say that if you were to remove all the appropriate concrete for plan number three in said you had to remove the concrete first then you would be allowed to have a permit granted to build the pool that you're requesting is that something you would accept I would accept it but I feel it's further from my perspective this has dragged on for so long and it's all because of a i yes I made but you got a lot of concrete and you want a big pool well but the thing is I understand that I overpoured I went back and forth do I need one I'm happy to remediate but I happen to have a professional who's telling me how to help me Salvage my home so I I've already spent money and time on this the pool cost has gone up um so I I I will accept that but it's not the best it's not in my best interest I feel like I want to be able to do the work at the same time yep I was going to say if you're you was that was what I was going to ask her if she would accept it she gave her answer and I got what I needed I mean reasonably speaking I think option three is probably what if I had to take a guess any of us would consider um I get the issue with the four kid I have five kids so I get the issue I get the issue with having multiple kids and multiple cars in the driveway and I understand how much of a pain in the butt it is to move cars out of the way but it is what it is right if you want a big pool you're going to have to people are going to have to back out of the driveway my question is I on option number three you have that triangle cut out on the side on the side that you said is where that concrete is there for the drainage issue that's that's yeah what you stated why not cut out the driveway in front of the house that's 130 ft instead because that's where we're going to be parking the cars I'm sorry about that little tiny driveway that leads up because look this is what my kids use this is what I use this is I'm divorce this is where the dad's the kid's dad drops him off I ask him to do something different he will do the opposite so it's a well it's a well-used path for guest with it's the driveway's fault so that little tiny 130 sare ft yeah it I'm just I mean I I I get it aesthetically it probably looks adorable and I get that but if I was having to pick between drainage issue and possibly like the issue of my house falling down I probably keep that number four and it's only a 6ot difference right so or even if you eliminate both you now you're only looking at 45 Square ft please don't think I had the conversation with myself and bought the life out my friend 100 million times over yeah I'm surprised he's not blocked me yet yeah so I I'm just that's I'm I'm I get the aesthetic and trust me I'm all about pretty houses I I've done a lot of work to my house but I'm just thinking if your drainage is the true issue why we can't cut this concrete I would cut that 130 ft in front of my house and then if you want all this to end a lot quicker and easy you cut both and you're only looking at 45 squ ft I I was on vacation um from April the 1st and so I in a hurry submitted this document to Mal beforehand and that version didn't have that extra whatever feet being cut from the side it had the 130 square ft being cut from the front path and I lost sleep over it because it's a functional path we use I'm I'm it has to be pretty but it has to be functional too I know but you also have this big driveway that you want to be completely 100% functional so it's it's checks and balances you got to pick the Lesser two evil it wasn't the drainage issue I would be cutting that aside yeah older I'd have cut it already and that we wouldn't have had to have a variance meeting it would have been a no-brainer but I'm here not because of some it is something I created but the city created it too I'm willing to remediate on my part I don't know what more to do I don't when I talk to the pool lady we sit and we have discussions about what will still be a reasonable size pool yeah but if you cut that little driveway that I know probably looks cute and adorable and your kids probably use it and it's probably wonderful trust me I get it 100% I would recommend keeping that number four and that way you eliminate your potential of drainage issues and again like I If I had to take a guess all of us are probably thinking number three is your best option because you're only asking for 1% which is it shows not only did you make adjustments but it's reasonable option three then but I don't know how that works that's what I was going to ask you are still going to have to State what the hardship is yeah and it can't be somebody's children or their cars or where they choose to park I well and I I do think I mean and I don't know if we're allowed to say there's a hardship because of potential drainage issues with the city like I said I don't know if we're allowed to say that I would ask ask the City attorney but because and if that truly and if there's reports showing that it's going to be a foundational issue I would say that's the hardship for the 175 sare ft just I forgot what I was going to say I did it'll come back to me oh so I was going to say if um if the D I fully believe that even once I've raised the concrete which I plan to do when I'm cutting out the rest of it the problem's not going to get any better so I am I going to have to come back MH because someone's going to have to know that hey we fixed it but this continues to happen the reason I'm not questioning myself is because I'm not the drainage exert but he is yeah but do you have the documentation showing that her house is going to be damaged if that piece of concrete is cut I can sign it behind my license and hang it and hand it to you and if you're a licensed professional I think the city would accept that I don't know I have just Malik or the City attorney but I'm I'm the state engineer yeah I manage five counties for the Florida Department of Transportation so even if you're going to make the determination that a drainage problem here is requiring her to have extra concrete and therefore that's the hardship you are still required to give the minimal variance necessary M so if a 12x10 pool can fit there with no variance she can already have a pool with no variance the question is how big or how small is the minimal variance necessary just because somebody wants a 40ft pole doesn't mean that's the minimal variance necessary is is the drainage issue not the hardship in itself cuz that's where all of this originates from that's what confuses me it it's related I we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for my property being flooded by poor drainage from the city if you cut both that front driveway and that longer piece on side number four you're looking at 45 Square ft if I doing my math rate Malik I'm going to leave that up to you but what would the minimum variant my opinion that's the minimum 45 right she's cutting now she's cut if you look at option three right she's cutting away 1 2 3 4 and that driveway in the front of her house yeah I mean it I and then that reduces it now she's only over by 45 ft it went from what n 900 or something to 45 I can I can accept basically that the that the pool is I mean just CU that considering it's a hot tub and a pole and she needs a deck around it that it's not necessarily that it may not it may be a fairly appropriate size pool considering the for the issue is mostly is that if the concrete's there at the minimum I'd have to agree that cutting out the walkway would be it too I mean and especially I can sort of I think that I'm trying to think of like some I I'm I I what I don't have much information is if I mean I understand that basically all I think there's case law all the is allowed to like live with you or something and then everybody should have if the car could go along with it by be making some type of like Federal interpretation of some existing qu to try to come up with something to make that possible and I'm not sure that I inversed enough in this um but I it does sound to me like if you want to keep the piece of the driveway where the cars are parked and we want them in in variance it does sound like the little one has to go um and all the concrete proposed and I would give you what was extra it's 45 and I really think that's the minimum that we can approve cuz remember we have to look at it from that standard and I I know it's cute but so that's like the type of thing where I probably would vote Yes if that's what we were voting on that's what in my opinion and correct me if I'm wrong but that's probably full concrete if it's an impervious surface like a gravel driveway she could replace that with like gravel or something yes please mhm staff has never reviewed these other options she's brought there's no reason we should be considering them but if you to work consider one you'd have to consider the one that is minimum so if there's one that says 0% that would be the minimum the one that says no variance if we're considering options that would be the one however that's the one I believe with the bonds but staff has not reviewed these additionally the reason why you submit one option because you're supposed to submit the minimum if if it was staff's Choice which is is not I would have made a presentation based off of the minimum which is that 0% I would have done research based off that 0% I would have talked to the City attorney where I need to talk to um as far as staff goes to see if this Bond situation is a is something possible and at that point I would have then during the review process would have told Miss con that hey you can't do this choose the next one so the point is not only have these not been reviewed but if it's a matter of minimum variance it would have been the one that is no variance so she wants to submit a new I know this isn't what you want she wants to submit a new one with just this 45 squ ft for us to review at the next meeting she has that option if she chooses a continuance I do not know I think the City attorney would be um knowledgeable of that but I would also like to say that it's based off a hardship whether it's 45 200 300 500 if it does not actually meet a substantial amount of the findings of fact I would not recommend approval well I mean if we have a licensed person telling us that her house is going to fall down if she cuts off all of that concrete on the side but but what other concrete does she have available but that's the existing concrete is self-created yeah but she put it there for the here here's kind of where the issue I'm having too is is can go back to the presentation you got we're not asking I I I mean I think when the drainage issue I I don't think you should cut it off from the side yeah but there is the point is there is a whole lot of other concrete it's in the driveway with which was a decision by the homeowner to pour and there is ample that can be removed cuz believe me I have the same situation I've got three cars I got a driveway this wide and if anything's in the garage it's you know it's the the car Rodeo to get everything in and out where it needs to be I totally get it but you know I can't expand my driveway either from the way my property is it's uh you know and and I do understand everything with the kids but the fact is that there's just simply ample concrete there to remove to do not even require a variance and not have to touch the part that's protecting your house cuz I agree with the engineer I had to spend more money than I ever wanted to own drainage at my house to avoid the very same scenario I completely get it but I where I'm having trouble is is the size of that driveway as a homeowner I should have the choice and the choice that I have is eliminated because of a city created issue with drainage like I do understand what you're saying but we all speaking as if I I have choices to make I don't well well I don't I don't I feel like I'm being penalized by having to cut any other part apart from the part that is there now protecting the house from falling down by something that I did not create well well and that's why I go back I don't think nobody I don't think anybody thinks you should cut the parts down I mean that's a choice if you want to go that way to save the driveway but my choice is for the city to remediate their issue so I can cut back what I need to cut back well and and and I you know what I completely understand that but that is not something that we can address at the board this is we're not the people that can do that they said just so you know the engineers won't commit to anything they want that remediated now but they said well we we don't know maybe it'll be 2 years maybe it'll be three years but they won't commit to anything so as you know if you've had drainage issues if I cut that slab what's it say 2 years 3 years they still haven't done it and that's not even knowing what damage will be causing those two to three years and and you know that's that's the hard part with that for me and I'm speaking for me there's other people on the board so you're not you're not you know that but the you know the hard part that I have is is that you know yes I understand that government moves slow I spent a very long time working for the government uh you know on and off and years in the milit I know how slow things go I know how frustrating it is uh but when you come to this board you're asking for a variance based on the hardship of the property not on the lack of action or the perceived lack of action of the city is on the property it is a hardship my prop but but here's the other part is the hardship is not preventing it's not preventing you from using it as design a pool is something that's nice to have you can have the 123t sorry if I remember the pool uh without making any changes but a pool is not something that's that's a guaranteed right under the city I mean correct me if I'm wrong please but I I mean my understanding is a pool is something you can have but it's not necessarily required to make use of the property as zoned and designed accessory structures are not a right by land in the city of simple terce I don't know if there's other jurisdictions but you're old owed reasonable use of your land and that is a single family homeone on arton uh single family zoning District that is what she has with a very large driveway with a very sufficient garage and a twostory home so as far as we're talking about reasonable use of land it's more than reasonable and and and any variance you grant is permanent it runs with the land so when the kids are all long gone often living in their own homes and somebody else is living here it will still be the same so that's why hardship is not based on the wants or needs even of the person who's asking or their family as a rebuttal I mean uh Mr Sherman said that this 47.5 lot coverage might get revised you know it's this is the only like jurisdiction that has that written in stone and they're defending it very vigorously I mean I don't I can tell you St Petersburg also has a lot coverage requ requirements and you have to seek variances if you want to exceed that so we're not the only ones yeah yeah but but I'm pretty sure those variances are you know if you if you give them mitigation strategies they probably like you know fly through like I said we're going to like offset the adverse impact we can't consider that about if other jurisdictions have these variances that's just it's not within our criter what we're allowed to consider if I mean I'm not trying to throw shade on anybody but if if if if if 0% variance is the option what is the point in having this board well I I the answer to that is is there are there are things and I that we have granted uh because the property has something that stops IT from making reasonable use of and that is the key words you know if you're designed for a single family home and there's something with the property that you cannot build a reasonable size single family home then that's what we're here for we can go through and say you know that yeah we're going to make an adjustment and we have done that uh because and I mean some of they have that you know they put these Lots out and then somebody gets the one at the end that's shaped like you know five trapezoids and some kind of a you know a very weird thing and there's just simply no way to put a home that meets the minimum square footage requirements on the property that's an example of a hardship that's not anything that anybody can do about the the you know I believe me I understand you want a pool I I I I understand everything you're saying and and if I could May a you know wave a magic wand and make the law change and and do that I would do it for you I I I really want to but we can't we have to look for the the hardship is not because you want it I mean and that's it's the hardship has to come from the fact that you can't do something that the land is supposed to allow you to do and a pool does not fall into that category of a reasonable use I mean there's no restrictions from it but we can't give it to you because it's without a hardship can just keep flooding my property and I just have to suck it up that's really what we're talking about it's because the city is in action that is creating have you city council that's that's going to mean exactly have you talked to the city council because that's that's the people that can make this change we can't I'm not sure the city flooded their property either I think that God flooded your property what the structure of the RADS the poor drainers system I understand what you're saying but so you know I'm I'm summarizing but it's something that could be remediated but there's no they won't commit to any kind of a timeline for me but unfortunately we can't just because the city won't do what you think they're supposed to do or even if they're supposed to do it and they just haven't done it whatever the reason we can't Grant a variance for that that's not a hardship that's a I mean it's a nightmare I won't disagree with you on that you know I I have no idea and I have no dog in this fight you know with what's going on between you and the City but that's not a hardship and that's what we're struggling with the one thing I can say though is that I where is basically what triggered an idea in my mind where I had no research about this is there may be some case law that says you have to have the appropriate numbers of cars to fit in the driveway there actually that could exist somewhere I don't really know I I almost wondering if that because we've never discussed that before through this and I've never researched that that that's actually possible that it might that I like you might have been on to something with that but as to that's the only thing I can think of but the walk that doesn't fix the walk the walkway from the road that I don't see why that shouldn't be cut out I mean it has like that's not I can put gravel on right I I I mean I'm trying to think if I if we were but that just basically I I can't see how even at considering the fact that that I as she pointed Tony pointed out is you could remove the walkway we're down to if you got rid of that you add basically the variance to like a mic variance 45t yeah and that's like basically something where it's easy it makes the I I'm kind of thinking that might be the minimum variance if assuming that I I mean it's it's I'm basically we're entertaining basically the 20 x 40 foot is pull is this is tough but I'm saying that even this isn't the minimum if that walkway is there and I'm not even sure the car is parked on the driveway I'm I'm suspicious thinking about like some of this like civil rights type case law there could be through like the waren era there could be something about that without could have come up somewhere in some jurisdiction and it might be helpful but I'm not really sure um I don't want to prolong the process it's gone on for long enough I'm already you know in the red because Pool prices have gone up but I mean the only I mean looking at this if you're cutting off again option three if you're cutting off 1 2 3 and four if you want to leave your your walkway to from the street you can cut off that 2011 extra square feet in the green and that it gives you 0% variance plus some it would just have to marry up yeah you know it would have to marry and it I mean it wouldn't look fabulous but it would it's an option which would give you you wouldn't in need a variance you wouldn't even have to come here today and I think about resell I again I get it and I and in due time if you can go to city council get them to say yes yes we're going to fix this but we can't give you a timeline you can come back here and you can do a variance to maybe put some concrete back down to protect your house if this I totally I again I get it but I'm just saying that 201 sare ft and if you want it to marry up you leave the section four and you cut off the driveway in the front and then you're not looking at a variance at all you don't even need a you don't need our approval we going to increase the size of the original pool and you can you can increase it back to no but you could if you if you get rid of 1 2 3 and four and that 201 one you could take it back to that big original size and leave your driveway your walkway to the front of the house and you wouldn't need any of us unless you want to come back and see us again kind of like having adult conversation I know no I'm just I mean there are options it they're just not fun ones you know and I get the aesthetic part so I we get that but you could go to the council I would even no matter what happens here today I would recommend you go to city council and try to fight that battle I just yeah a site note you know I live on St Augustine they put a water line MH you know to my yard then they kind of jog around came in the road half that Road's dug up and half the speed you know bump is like you know dug up so when you're riding a car it's like you know riding in you and you're kind of being on one side yeah it's been like that for two years M so good luck to miss Khan to have her issue addressed but if you could get a certif a letter from city council saying yes this is our issue we're going to fix it you could come back here and ask for variance for more concrete and I know that's not what you want I know you want to just keep it and leave it but grand kids CH my life today I I totally get it and if you want to go backwards and go to city council first and then come back here and say okay city council say that you could do that too but that's going to grandkids moving forward I know and you also could get rid of concrete ASAP and build your pool like as soon as you're done yeah without us I could also dump my kids and I wouldn't need a B I don't know how they' feel about that so oh okay everybody can breathe for a moment but uh so I mean I I I think you a general idea where the board is um you know I do think that if you want us to consider option three I think that the city needs a chance to review that I I I understand that they only allowed you to submit one but if that's if you want if that's the one you want I do I would recommend we ask you ask for a continuance and that we have the city a chance to review it um you know but I think you've gotten you know a lot of people here that have said there you know there are ways for you to do this that you don't need us um you know and I realize that's not exactly what you want to do and but it's not asking you to damage your property it's not asking you to permanently change your property uh you know it gives you the ability to go back and fight City Hall so to speak um if that's where you want to do that um no no I understand I I understand it I I we've all been there been our own way we've all been there at one point or another and even everybody that works for the city has been there before so they I mean everybody gets it at a personal level but uh you know I want to see you pool I want to see have your pool I want kids to enjoy the pool I want them to be able to park but you know there's just this board I don't think there's anything else we can do for you I mean you've got an extremely talented architect um sorry that's Stephanie Stephanie sorry I said that as soon as I said like you're not we got a great sorry like it's yeah she's the the architect but still you got it I mean that's uh you know so there's there's definitely options that are going to let you do what you want I realize they're not perfect I realize they're not everything you want but they're there and I I say this you know in a smile on my face that you don't need us in the city's going to give you a permit I mean if you do that um I think you fight it on day we said we were going to give you a permit I don't know ask him that but well okay you're going to be a lot more eligible for a permit than you are today does that get me out does that get me out of the hot water yeah the uh well they're probably yeah they're probably not just going to hand it but yes it it certainly put you within the case to get the permit can I just say yeah please could and I don't know Pam if this is a question for you or Malik but could she ask for a continuous to think about her options and then if she needs to come back to us come back to us and if she doesn't she doesn't I don't know how that works yes her choices are is to go forward and have you vote on it today withdraw it or she can ask for a continuance he just out of curiosity so for plans that weren't reviewed and only seen by the board essentially she can still ask for a continuance on this matter she's that would ask for a continuance so you could review it and then come back and give your report based on her new request so if another plan is proposed another set of options what do I do then to prevent this happening I just want to make sure I I do the right process you mean this happening again in another proposal let's say somehow there's two more options in addition to option three I just want to know for my owners I guess the board can say this is the last continuance in this matter okay thank you I I just want to say to that though I presented all of this to Malik on maybe it was I don't know at the end of March maybe the last two days before I went on vacation I just think it's very unfair that we are here now on May the 23rd almost two months later and he's able to on it and the delay the only person it affects is me it's not fair him and I aren't allowed to get together on this to find out what he you told him though that's the only thing like this is my first time seeing the he could have taken St if I'm presenting the options he could have taken it to his staff I'm just saying as in general as a human being who's already dragging this out for so long it just seems like the process is only there to create problems it's not it's not you know you have to come you have to come and present this is what this is my option you don't come in and say Here's three and I want to come forward with all of them I'm trying to be flexible I'm trying to be flexible I'm willing to put money down you know and hold down B that's how flexible I'm willing to be I'm just saying it's just wasted two months but but you should have come forward with the least requested one and we would have moved on and we would have discussed that one here today not come in with one two and three but just three I don't want it to drag on any longer than it's dragged on I'm allowed as a as a human being I'm allowed to you know ask for people to have that consideration I'm trying to be as flexible as possible I I have a question for S are we allowed to vote on option three hypothetically if we are we is that with our discretion to because that's what I um my question that way she wouldn't have to come back you know no we were like permitted to you could however the problem with that is then with staff being considered an expert and they're here as an expert just like the engineer here as an expert the city's expert has not had a chance to make a presentation regarding option number three so you would not have the benefit of that may I look at option number three and see I need time to review it I mean Mr Malik has already had a minute to review um op he's look he's taking a look at three right now let him let him let him look option is just um more being cut and it's the walkway correct correct it's there there's literally an arrow that says remove uh then hold on then that's literally what option 3 says an arrow sh here to to I did not write okay sorry what's the original I don't know that was the one given to me just now by the applicant okay so this is it's actually the side this side driveway is being cut back yeah it gets closer to the house and this would be a cut without drainage issues no there will be drainage issues the drain issues won't stop yeah so you take that I I'll say I'll say this instead CU up to the board if I need review this or not out of principle she has enough concrete on her lot to cut to build the pool she wants whatever number I am given I am simply changing numbers on my presentation to be frank in my staff report to be frank the findings of fact do not change besides the actual metric in the wording of reduction so if we push this further for her which will be a detriment to her and ultimately more work for me and we do have quite a bit you get paid I don't nice you have a house I don't um it will happen it will happen yep the pool will happen as well as long as you cut the concrete so that is up to the board we can do this a third time but I promise you you will be seeing a very similar presentation with the exact same findings of fact so you're saying that based on your your expertise uh no no uh no hardship exists yes that's actually what I said the first time that's what I'm saying the second time regarding regarding option three I should be more specific regarding option three no hardship exists because if it's a reduction in lot coverage that she's willing to cut and there's still more because there's more driveway that's able to be cut for to have her pool without the need for a variance there is no justification for a hardship me ask a question yes go ahead um two questions one if she gets something from the city saying yes this is the city's fault is it a hardship or no I cannot speak to that pam pam do I'm just wondering if the city were to say yes this is our city engineering would that be a hardship I don't know that's why as I said it may be a hardship but that's only part of your chore you still need to look at minimum variance necessary and the extra parking here is as big as the entire pool agre so there is a driveway there but now there's like side driveway there which apparently is not being reduced at all and if that were gone then all of her drainage things could remain her front walkway could remain you just have to stack cars while the kids are still there if all children are given cars agree so her options are essentially for us to vote on option three now because you're saying that AR option two because option two has the same outcome of option three but I reviewed in full option two or she could she could go to city council try to get something to make it a hardship or she could just cut off everything and not have to need any of us I recommend she Advocates with her city council the elected officials of this jurisdiction for her concern um if not I advocate to remove concrete in order to have her pool because I do not see a hardship and if it's removed she doesn't need us or me yes okay the Cent get all these look like it's not a converging process it's just like you know it's just like bureaucracy at like at its finest you know well I am going to say we are um I want the board to have all the questions but we're I I I think we're starting to get to the point where we're kind of talking around in circles a bit um the client has to have the last well I I I got that I got that one but that's what I'm trying to get to so um is there does anybody have any well we got the city back do anybody have any questions for the city I justed okay um I need to ask did you get did you get sworn in no I didn't okay good you swear affirm a testimony or evidence you're about to give or present is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do and then would you please state your name for the record hi I'm Miranda and I am the city planner I just wanted to talk about options and um it's it's standard practice for an applicant no matter if it's a variance a site plan rezoning a plan development to only present one option the board either approve or deny that option or ask for continuance to look at it the reason why is it takes staff we have many projects going on but uh we also have to involve other divisions give their review and they only review one plan staff reviews an analysis of one plan so there's a reason why only option two was brought to you and why we only do one option at a time makes things confusing and we also have to prepare in case you do approve variances or whatever other plans we do have to prepare in case you want to approve it propos conditions for that plan with option three and option one we haven't even prepared conditions for your consideration for those two options so I would advise not considering option three or option one unless she wants to continue thank you thank you you know as a rort to that you know when we design Bridges we just don't say like this is what it's going to be we take input from probably 500 sources including like figuring out if you know an eagle Eagle is going to drop eggs in a nest somewhere so we look it we look at it holistically we don't look at it with blinkers on the eyes you know and that's you know it's you got to have some Flex for the client and she's she's just being being strung out for over 3 months on this and if he's already looked at option b which offered 413 ft I don't know the number off the top of my head 45 is going to be lesser so it's going to be less of a risk all right I'm so I'm going to uh I do the applicant you do have the final word um which I'm going to see if anybody has any more questions on the board before we get I want before we get to that does anybody have any more questions no okay all right then I'm going to you have five minutes uh you have the final word if there anything you in light of all the comments that you've heard I just it's just it's really unfortunate that this is the process not about you guys but really with the city that they can do what they want and you know as a law-abiding citizen I guess screw so that's all all right so I I will ask this this before we go and um close the hearing and everything um um let's can keep me can I if I close the hearing can we still do the continuous or does that have to be done before we close it no you need to well you can you can close it to any discussion more or less and then but you should decide whether the applicant wants a continuance or whether she wants you to just vote right I just needed to make sure I didn't want to do this in the wrong order that was uh okay so I can go ahead so okay with that if there no further comments uh from the board of variants I hereby close the public hearing and the board may discuss the application uh before we go to that I will ask you you know is I think you've had your I think you've had the options do you want to ask for a continuance now I will say this to the to the to the things first of all this board only meets once a month so that's part of the delay second and we I believe if you remember in March we discussed this we were going to have a problem in April with Quorum because of the date so April was that's on us as the board we simply did not have enough available um the next meeting I it would be sometime third week or so of June I don't have the date for no no June meeting okay um we wouldn't have enough time because there another another legal ad would have to be put out another um I think you need your mic on I'm getting the like okay another legal ad would be put out so we wouldn't have enough time to get that legal ad in that deadline is already passed so and then the July meeting we wouldn't be able to do because of the City the planner not being available and then the attorney not being available so it would have to be August so that's that's the unfortunate way we have to deal with it so it would be August um you know if you want to come back you can we can go ahead and I mean we can go ahead and vote um or you can withdraw the application I I'll still continue just because I need some time to think about everything and and and I will say if you with some of the things that have been suggested here you don't have to come back here if you could so I mean just to make sure you've gone that so yeah I could say where basically at least where my brain is gone um the big thing I see though is the red herring here is the walkway is the big extra thing that is where I mean I I that's what makes it the toughest I think on me is seeing that we just have extra concrete I don't have one of those in my house the little extra walkway so um but there's that I mean I think though basically your minimum variance is more like 05% if it even exists it's then 1% what is what I'm not very good at doing math on my head what is 45 Square F feet over 17442 square feet I I what I see is there's more concrete that's that can that the walkway can go though because it goes out to the road and people actually walk in from the driveway so that's kind of like where basically I'm seeing extra concrete as well as you know the parking I mean so um we go yeah too much for let me ask this would you know do would you like us to vote on a continuance oh on a continu yes yes yes no no I'm sorry yeah two key words there at the end done this three times I can I just ask oh just so you know the date's gonna be August 22nd August 22nd okay ham if she decides to withdraw between now and August 22nd she would not have to come back here to withdraw correct she could just withdraw with the like Malik off yes okay mhm ladies and gentlemen I just finally figured out how to run my calculator on the 45 Square ft comes out to 26% yeah okay well then there and that the amount of runoff that you're going to get from 45 Square F feet will not be enough to draw in a squirrel I understand but we're still confined to the the rules and laws and everything as they exist today um and I could say is she could get less parking and less pool if that's what we're going to come down to we're kind of just in that predicament where if there's a variance it's what's really the minimum um so we'd have to accept that that's the pool size that's appropriate for this house and I guess that the pool belongs there or something but um anyways I see well I'm going to say the the applicant has asked for a continuance to August 22nd do I have a motion so moved so moved the second I would just say for me a second I think we should say it's going to be the final continuance next time if we're going to do that okay would you like to amend your motion can do that I can do that I would like to amend my motion to um change it to being the final continuance um for this particular variance request okay do I have a second we have a second all in favor say I I any opposed okay then you have your final continuance to August 22nd um I I I really hope you can figure it out I I really sincerely do I hope you get your pool and I hope it's a fantastic summer you I really do thank you appreciate it all right is new business is there any new matter that any board member would like to raise I do have one but um I will wait until see if anybody has anything I just have one question um there's alternates correct how many alternates do we have oh you well I'm just alternate at the moment and right now you're our only legal per City attorney for the city no no we have two I'm just I mean cuz I'm I'm trying to be ethical here and I mean it doesn't seem fair to certain people to like have to they waiting from May all the way to August is there anything we could do to well both both of our city attorneys are at a conference so that can't be that can't be helped and our and our planner has plans already so and he's the one who's in charge of this one and however I have proposed if we could possibly find another date on the calendar in July that we can have that we can that this room is not being used for something else I'm I'm certainly open to that but you all will have to yeah agree on a date too I'm flexible in June I mean July just the first three weeks only latter part of July out of the country I'm and I I know that it takes time to like put things in the be I'm just trying to think of like as someone who's trying to do delays do can cost a significant amount of money to the we can change the meeting date we do not have to meet on that specific day or not meet is that correct correct if there's a need I'm saying I'm pretty flexible so just I don't think I'm going just is there like some just that we have to look at the calendar because there are numerous meetings that happen in this room yeah every month so I have to make sure that there is a day where everybody is available I'm just thinking can we put a protocol in place where if it's going to be like more than just one month skip that we like do a poll or something and see what other dates are available so we're not skipping two months in a row we tried that with this one before this this meeting happen yeah well attorney I'm just I you know I know it can cause the homeowners money and any situation with any of these variances and I just I completely understand and I and I really don't want to try to get this back in my head three months from now either it's still s i mean a month is long enough sometimes but can you give us some proposed dates that we could do this in July and just see let's see who's available the motion T has already been made so can we change that motion can we put a motion to notify already made in front of the in front of the applicant well the thing is if she chooses if we can come up with a date in July we can let her know that that's the date available if she doesn't want to take that and she'd rather wait till August she can do that too and I'm thinking more like longterm not just for the specific scenario like we're skipping two months and like I said that can cause for anybody who files a variance money for them so like I was just wondering if there was anything in place if there's already something and you already tried thank you I was just wondering no yeah cuz I feel like last year we did this over the summer too I don't think we met over the summer last summer either because of vacations and everything well I think I think we did uh go through and talk about we would meet once every 3 months even if there wasn't a case simply to review and not let this get you guys didn't meet for so long because we had no variances brought to us I just don't remember don't normally skip months um this is this is different because it's a continuance so we didn't when we have these continuances we don't meet the deadline for yeah our well I personally did a variance here and I had to wait 3 months so I am just and I think that yours was a little bit different too um but yeah yeah I'm just try looking at the calendar one more time for July and see if there's anything within the first three weeks yeah that's and and I know we got theth of July holiday in there hope there's a lot going on that makes it difficult so if we can find something then the clerk will send you the dates and see if we can get a quorum for that date and I'm going to unfortunately and I I I may throw another kink in this cuz I don't know what the exact date is but what I was going to bring up if you don't mind me I don't want to interrupt you not I just wanted to so what I was going to bring up is that all of our terms expire in August although I don't know what date that is if it's before after the August 22nd meeting it is before I believe it's before is it 17th or 18th I believe well I can I can remember the 17th because that's my birthday but uh hopefully you'll you'll whyly to be reappointed well and that's what I was going to say is that the business I was bringing up um is that all of our terms are going to expire uh so we will be getting applications at some point here in the next few days or a couple of weeks um to reapply I certainly hope everybody does reapply because I enjoy working with you but um you do need to reapply or you won't be at the August meeting so will you send us that information yes I'm going to yeah so you know and then that will be of course whether we come back or not will be up to the city you know the city council but uh that is forthcoming so I do hope everybody applies and I believe we're still we'll see if anybody else does if we have enough for alternates or if we're going to have to try to put that together again so umg that's what I had with that but yes that's the other thing that we don't get reappointed we may not have to worry about August 22nd we may not be here that is true all right is there any other new business all right any old bus any any old business anybody would like to bring up I did want to say that we could have invited Mr Kravitz back up here because because now that that issue is over if he wants if he has any new business old business or anything else you want to come up and come and discuss cilian I just realized he was hiding back over there I'm sorry and I did too I totally it's okay all right so the next meeting of the board of adjustment will is now officially scheduled for August 22nd 2024 at 6:00 pm if needed um and if we're still here so if not somebody else will be sitting here doing this um you know I appreciate you checking into the July dates and and said so is there any other bids to be brought before the board the chair will entertain a motion to adjourn so move and second second all right any everybody moved any let me try this again is there anybody object to a journey object I want to hang out you want to hang out okay track all in favor say I I all right thank you that concludes this meeting [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] for --------- e e e e e e e e Booth so good evening everybody the May 23rd 2024 Temple Terrace Board of adjustment meeting is now called to order would you please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right uh board members uh would roll call would you please state your name for the record Dr Mark mckenny iron long Stan cope Tony Anderson Eric krait all right thank you have all the board members received the minutes of the March 28 2024 meeting okay are there any corrections or addition to these minutes it was a yellow highlighted typo I believe somewhere along the top of one of the pages I'm not sure if that got redacted remov okay yeah other than that all right great um do I have a motion to approve the minutes so move I have a motion do I have a second I'll second second okay all in favor say I I I any opposed all right the motion passes accepting the meeting minutes for the May 23rd 2024 board meeting all right at this time I will briefly explain the board of adjustment procedures for tonight's meeting please listen and if anyone wishing to speak on any of the matters discussed tonight has questions please ask after I finish explaining the procedures the variance request will be heard and the board May approve approve with conditions or deny the requested variance tonight alternatively the board may continue a case to a specified date upon the request of the owner or applicant a staff report detailing the arience request and the staff's recommendation will be presented to the board by Community Development planner mik Hall did I get it right this time Malik Malik okay thank you my AP better closer than last time the board May then ask questions of the staff the applicant will present their application and answer any questions from the board next the board will hear from other persons wishing to speak on the application comments should be limited to relevant factors the the applicant will be allowed to respond to comments from the public the board will then close the public hearing for discussion on the petition upon no further discussion by the board the chair will ask for a motion the motion must State the reasons for granting or denying the application staff will provide written correspondence to the applicant and owners after this meeting regarding the approval or denial of the application if approved the owner May submit the appropriate building permit applications or the city May proceed in with reviewing building permit applications that may have already been filed as a result of the board approval of the variant however please note that any action by this board is not final for 30 days and if the applicant moves forward prior to the expiration of the 30 days they do so at their own risk does anyone have any questions about the variance process at this time all right all persons wishing to speak or be heard on the variance petitions tonight please stand up and take the oath and be sworn okay do you swear or affirm that the testimony or evidence you about to give or present is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth right City attorney shasham will ask if board members have had any expar Communications um before I do that I did want to mention just for um if anybody's looking at this agenda carefully this item is listed under rearings it should this is not a rehearing because no decision was made last time this is actually a continued case from last time um if any member of the board has had any expart communication either oral or written with anyone concerning this application um this is your time to please State for the record what that is if you've received anything in writing you will need to provide a copy of that to the clerk for the record um if you've received any whether it's uh in writing or orally um you need to State now uh with whom you had that communication when that communication took place and the sum and substance of that communication and I'll start directly to uh my left and uh no no no no yes so is this on okay so I have I have spoken with Suna I go to a uh open house occasionally and I met her at one that she was um involved in and we started talking about her situation because we discuss remodeling occasionally and she brought up her home which she was working on so uh I know a little bit about the uh it was I believe three or four months ago I'm guesstimating could have been longer um and uh so she she discussed extensively the the desire for the pool and drainage issues so I have a bit of a background with that and for that reason I think it would be more seemly if I recuse myself at this point because not because I have a strong opinion about the case or uh but but I I feel like since there are four competent members of the board here who don't have that um prior involvement uh or knowledge I think it'd be fine I'm trust you guys and you're going to do a great job so um thank you there will be a short form that you will need to fill out um not right this at this moment but you'll need to provide that to the clerk and the clerk can provide you with that form sure I'm gonna I'm going to go and join the audience now so thank you thank you you bet okay the Temple Terrace Board of adjustment will now open the public hearing on the variance ba 24-1 for 319 Brentwood Avenue is submitted by Suna Khan the staff presentation will be by Community Development planner Malik Hall please make the staff's presentation regarding variance request ba 2401 good evening board chair members of the public the applicant and staff perfect so we are here today May 23rd 2024 for the contins for variance request 319 brenway Drive folio 20894 which is ba 24-1 the owner an applicant is samna Khan and her agent is Abdul Waris professional engineer the zoning district for her subject property is r10 single family residential the flood zone for this property is X the acreage is approximately 40 acres or 17,44 ft the existing variance for the property is a principal structure side yard setback reduction for the West property line which is known as ba 22-05 characteristics of the property are two-story home 4,178 square foot home that includes a garage and a driveway this is area of the property including a front facade so you can see the extent of the um lot coverage of the property and extent of the the driveway the rear concrete the walkway and such additional Aerials a bit of a overhead angled aerial and then a closer image of the driveway so the original we're going back to the first public hearing the original variant request was to increase the lot coverage maximum for from 47.5% to 52% the original proposed pool area was 9915 Square ft with original dimensions of 40t and 8 in x 22 ft and 6 in the permissible pool area on the property is 123 ft which is approximately 10 ft and 3 in by 12T or any combination thereof that would equal 123 Square ft that was the original the next slide will show you the uh her revised plan and the uh updated variants request Miss Khan is now requesting an increase from 47.5% to 49.1 n% she has reduced the original request the proposed pool area now including the heat pump and the pump and filter which was on the previous plan on the previous request but those numbers were not um added to the the original request so now now those are included so the padding for that is included as well with that updated amount it equals 831 ft so we went from 9115 to 831 the dimensions have gone from 40t and 8 in x 22 ft and 6 in to 40t and 8 in by 20 ft the permissible pool area on the property is still 123 ft because lot coverage values have not changed to know there has not been any changes in the on in the improvements this is a overhead of this is the survey of the property for the updated side plan so everything we're looking at now is just updated for this continuance for her revised plan the lot coverage maximum is 8,285 Ft for the property if that's so that's based on the 47.5% so 47.5% of the property is 8,285 Ft the existing coverage on the property is 8,162 square ft which leaves a remaining of 123 ft so that's the permissible area without the variance the proposed pool area as we said as we just said is 831 squ ft so the proposed lot coverage is 858 sare ft so the existing minus what she's willan to remove so in order to decrease the amount she's requesting she has not only reduced the pool but has also reduced the proposed pool but has also uh committed to removing some some coverage some concrete on her property the amount she's willing to remove is 413 Square ft so you remove 413 from the existing and then add the 831 proposed and it comes down to 8580 ft 8580 ft is 49.9% of the property's loot coverage the amount exceeding the maximum is 295 Square ft so as we just said the original lot coverage maximum is 8,285 to get to 49.1 n% it'd be an additional 29 ft which is more than double of the permissible now what's permissible now is 123 and the amount exceeding the maximum is 295 the finer details for the sections that she's will to remove is section one shows 104.5 Square ft she's willing to cut under section one uh section 2 104 s ft Section 3 88.5 ft and then section 4 16 ft all this does add up to 43 ft this is the updated pull specs we have as mentioned before the reduction from 22 ft and 6 in to 20 ft but the width is the same it's still 40 ft and 8 in in width and just to make sure this is known the also included section shows the bubbler and umbrella sleeve on the Sund deck brick pavers and Screen walls on a 12 x 17 covered patio two floating pool safety alarms so a um a screening actually miss Khan is that a screen enclosure to be exact okay so that is required for a pool just to make it clear in because I wasn't known uh by Cod we required some sort of of safety barrier you know for any um I guess you that may end up getting into the pool whether it be someone that's a resident of the property or someone that walk onto the property so that is required and that does also would be in the the um footprint of the proposed pool so it wouldn't add any lot coverage it's also a screened enclosure so to my if it is a screen enclosure it wouldn't add lot coverage if it's if it's not screened in the roof even if it's a solid roof it' be within the um confines of the proposed so it would not add so I just want to make it clear that the screened enclosure or patio covering whatever it may be as part of the proposed pool would not add any additional lot coverage so I was mentioned before is that these single family residents on her property two stories um 4,178 square feet has a garage has a driveway and it's it it meets the reasonable use of her property for the drainage concern that was brought up last public hearing the updated plan does not include a Burman Swale so as part of engineering's comments they have now been separated from the actual proposal engine division's comments on the new plan are it appears there are no public RightWay improvements and no utility or dream easement impacts thus there is no involvement with from engineering until we receive a post construction survey for the driveway because part of engineering's original um response was they need a post construction survey or a survey for elevations to make sure that if there's any discrepancy between what was done in the past from the city Temple Terrace and what was done on their property they can see what's the issues there so I just want to make that clear that the drainage concern is not attached to this variant at this time based on the applicant's revised proposal she has up to 536 ft without the need for variance now I say this because she has clearly shown that she's wanting to cut concrete so if she were to cut the concrete she has in this proposal but not go for with the variance she's able to have a pool that's 536 ft that's that's over a 20x 20 pool there appears to be no hardship the reason is because you are able to remove lock coverage from your property there is no there's nothing preventing you from removing loot coverage from your property to accommodate for the pool any grievances result from the applicant's opposition to further reduce improvements contributing to lot coverage or proposed lot coverage or any combination thereof we've been shown that this is possible that even if if if it even if the section that she's stated that she's not willing to remove is not accounted for there's other sections of her property that she can remove lot coverage and there's still enough space to accommodate for even the original pool size that is the end of my presentation unless you would like to go over the findings of fact uh let me do this let me start uh I'm going to start on my left and see if you have any we see if there's any questions from the board and we'll just go left to right tonight I just want to be a little bit clear I'm sorry about the drainage issue I know we talked about in the past so you said it's not included in this variant correct because this is a issue of lot coverage the drainage does not based off our Land Development code does not impact the variance because the drainage issue prevents that one section or at least according to the applicant the drainage issue prevents that one section that slab on the side from being removed but she has other areas that she can remove lot coverage to the point of still having reasonable use of her home reasonable use of a driveway with a garage so with all this considered if she were to even remove more lot coverage she can have the pool she wants it just has to come from somewhere else that was the only question I thank you um yeah so I just want to understand correctly so basically your argument is that you can that she has that there's enough extra concrete around the house and driveway where she could slash enough to build the 202x 40 pool if she were to take away enough concrete the original pool and of course the reduced pool yes okay um and then if she doesn't want to remove that your argument is that she could still build a 20 x 20 pool 20 x 20 is only if she removes what's proposed in this um revised plan okay got so removing this amount of concrete she could only build a pull up to 2020 all right so real quick I just want to ask you um do you have did you do you does the city have any research of a 20x 20 pool is that's the size they come in that's like a real pool that could exist research um we've we you can do a quick Google search that 20 x 20 pools are are realistic sizes for pools um even for a personal pool I I don't know if it's modest I don't have a pool myself but cuz what I don't know is if pools only come in 20 x 40 or maybe they come in 20 x 20 I just like I'm not really sure what's like the reasonable I is is this a is this a concrete pool I mean this being dug and Port yeah so it'll be it can be it'll be whatever size they want to put it in yeah just I was this may have some context here I was trying to finish my question I was asking though if um okay that if basically so all right I I think I understand so basically you're saying a 20 by 20 that would be a good alternative um would you like to see the plan again would that to give you any perspective uh no that's okay I just was going to ask if the city like if do so do are you aware if those exis in Temple Terrace though pools that are 20 x 20 I've seen based off of just uh property Aerials when I do my my uh staff my uh permitting review there are some sizable pools in our jurisdiction 20 x 20 U maybe 20 22 by 10 like there are VAR really simple question because I don't know how big they're supposed to be that was really what I was trying to figure out all right thank you okay Dr I have no questions all right if there's no further question questions from the board regarding this request thank you very much we'll move on we'll go with the applicants presentation um if you would please come forward state your name and address for the record and make your presentation uh you will have 15 minutes hello again I'm S Khan owner of 319 Brentwood Drive this is ABD professional engineer um I want to clarify something we keep talking about that 123 ft that's a 10 x 12 pool it's not because there's a decking goes around it because you don't just have water wall pool um the pool area includes a sunshelf and a hot tub because that's what would work for my family so it's not just the pool I've discussed several times with the pool company when we're reducing it what is considered a decent sized pool I do think it needs to fit the home that's what I would like I've reduced it already um the reason we didn't give engineering the elevations they wanted we're all intelligent enough to understand that even if there's been a half an inch drop in my driveway from when before from since I ped uh you know since I reped the concrete the influx of water coming in is not going to be affected by half an inch we have the volume of what 20 pools coming in it's not going to make any difference so the situation remains where it is so you guys had basically the situation hasn't changed like we were all here last time so I'm not going to I don't want to bore anyone um so I made this reduction thinking this is you I said if you can come back with something smaller we went from 4 and 1 half% over to 1.69% over what I also did I was only allowed to present one option we actually handed in three I just want to run through those quickly and I have them printed out if you need them but the first one was that we said that we could I could leave a $10,000 bond with the city and when the drainage issue was resolved then you know I'd have to cut back otherwise you know that's my bond gone there's another variance where I cut back more on the side driveway which only takes us 1% over it's not my ideal scenario but I'm doing my best to work with my future needs with me and my children and also protecting my property from a drainage issue that we all know exists I have them printed off before yeah sure sure good there's option one and there's an option three it's doublesided printing thank you of course Abdul might have something to say to ask no I just I just wanted to point out that the drainage issues kind of woven into this I mean I didn't want to browbeat uh what we kind of discussed the last meeting um the more you cut closer to the house the bigger the problem gets for her so in option three I'm willing to it's still 7 ft away it's still protecting the property we've discussed it 100 times over I just don't want to take the risk of a foundation failure option two is still preferable but I wanted to show you my willingness to do what I need to do and I might also add that that the other jurisdictions like the city of Tampa and the count they allow for mitigation in terms of creating you know swells to capture that additional runoff that might happen because of you know 300 ft of impervious area so we presented to the city the option that we will completely retain any excess runoff so there's not going to be an adverse impact surrounding properties the first time this went through actually Dallas um Dallas F his comments included the mitig ation Pond and then for some reason it just got swept over when we were here the last time you're if you're finished I'll be happy to open to a board the question I want to make sure that you've had a chance to say everything that you want to say for not completely understanding you'll have a chance for rebuttal and everything else as well but uh okay so at this time are there any questions from the board uh Dr mckin I I think the options that she she provided explains it uh clearly so I mean looking at the material she provided is real detailed so I think I'm able to uh discern a decision or get the information needed from this information okay I just have to ask um mostly I mean I guess I'm looking towards option three as your most viable one that um considering the fact that you've given us three options and one of which is a minimum the other two actually require you to have more concrete unfortunately I think we're being that we see that every time somebody proposes a better plan during these things that works it kind of spoils the other ones so looking at opt that's happened in other things before where the contractor got up and said that there was a better way to do it like oh no now we can't vote Yes on this but going forwards I was going to ask what is your argument that you can't reduce 1% of lot coverage while using option three like why is it that you can't find 1% more to get rid of I don't I have parked cars on the side of this exess driveway I have four kids my oldest is 15 she oh I'm so sorry okay I like being on C no um uh I have four children they're all going to be driving soon I plan for them to stay with me you know until they finish their undergrad at USF so I they're going to be with me for that long we have two garage spaces I want them to feel safe and comfortable and have a place to park on my driveway versus the street okay so hypothetically I just I just F her thought what's more important cars in the driveway or the pool both I I mean I I don't want to the thing is I wouldn't even be choosing right had we not a drainage issue from the city I wouldn't have had to make a choice I offered to cut the whole slab he he stopped me because of the foundation shoes I'd already spent money remediating when I bought the house no I have a question it's this is even though I'm not sure that multiple cars in the driveway is a hardship to the land to be truthful but I do have a question just to one wondering can these parts cars be parked on the street instead of the driveway this her neighbor's park on the street it's a curved street it's it's a dead trap you can't see cars coming from is it legal to is there any law telling them that they can't park there well we will also just so you know I wanted actually a circular driveway and that was stopped because Glenn Oaks comes out directly in front and that was deemed to be a risk no I understood we're talking about cars not the driveway on the street with which the which is the alleged death trap is it legal for them to be there park there yeah but you can't park your car on the street there's some code for more than 24 hours so then what does that okay that that's what I'm asking so you're aware of a code that is in place that would make that where they can't keep them there yeah well I'm not I'm not the code person please remember that this is just what I've read in passing okay I've never heard of this before that's why I was asking yeah okay I believe that car has to be moved within 24 hours okay so is there a way for you to physically fit the cars onto your driveway even without that extra chunk not with I mean then there would be cars stacked up so if the person in the garage wants to leave now everyone has to get up and reverse out so no it would not be conducive so I wanted the circular driveway okay all right I think I understand thank you if I could interrupt a moment I don't know that these all these options were submitted to staff for for their review and consideration and comment before now I can say that as the City attorney I would definitely be recommending to the my client the city that we don't be accepting shity bonds for this and I would also be recommending to the city that any removal of concrete that's supposed to happen happens prior to any permit for building a pool we're we I would recommend not giving a permit to build any pool until the concrete is removed can I can I make a point to to to the um to the attorneys or to the city's legal council would would you even press the city to like remedy the drainage problem I mean would you uh would you be kind enough to recommend to the city that they fix the problem I mean I don't I don't seem uh to see your enthusiasm to you know directed in that you know uh manner I have drainage problems too so you know this is not a unique thing to this property so the applicant can come in front of city council herself and ask and tell them about the drainage removal or or the drainage issue but right now we're I don't think that staff is even looking at the all the concrete down the side we're discussing the car or the the driveway that was poured by the applicant that she chose to pour I'm just kind of you know making a point Counterpoint about you insisting that the concrete be removed when she's like you know no that's only promising to like you know place a bond with the city Only The Logical thing it shows where her heart is it shows where her heart is no that's logical thing to do that we don't we don't accept that a thing be done on a promise that something's going to happen we're not kind we're not going to like Drive between the cones and between the rules we're not those kind of people you know I managed like well and I'm going to I don't think anybody in in here the city or anywhere else is asking you to do anything like that we certainly would not do that and I would not condone that as I don't think anybody else sitting here would I mean we're you know as the board we have things that we can and things that we cannot do some of the things that you would like to see that would be up to the city commission we can't do those things um and we're very we are we're we're having to work within the scope of what we're allowed to legally do you know I mean and I will say this I'm working with this board everybody wants to help where we can I mean we want to do we want everybody to have what they can but we've got to be within the rules because that's that's what we have to do and you know even even if we passionately agree with you we can't violate the rules so I I just just to go on that premise and I understand that there's drainage issues and everything else but those and and I understand you have brought that forth and I think the board understands the point on that but any conversations with the city about how to remedy that it probably separate from from this hearing so I'm give you I just want to get through that I promise I'm going to turn it back over to you I promise okay so um you know I I think the board I think we're good on the drainage issues um yeah my only concern is the options that were presented here uh is uh the city hasn't had an opportunity to research or provide a GU if a lot better term yes sir the applicant was told that there there she could put support only one one option okay well my concern is okay maybe um the city has not been allowed to to do their due diligence or do their their homework if you will the research into the viable options of the other the other options that been presented here I'm not I'm not saying I don't want that but I just think it would be prudent for for our our staff what city staff to go ahead and look into those vi the viability of those options to ensure that everything is is is a is Kosher for for lack of a better term if I could just speak real quick I just would say that we're supposed to only consider the evidence that's here that would mean that the considering outside stuff I'm not sure that would be necessarily appropriate to do like the outside research on it well they've also had ample time and all fairness all all options got presented together the other thing I wanted to say um back to the city attorney I let's just say you you want all the slap cut before we start the work I'm trying uh be efficient with my cost as well my plan is when I cut the slab whatever needs to be cut I'm also going to cut the front part of the driveway and I have to repour concrete and raise it and I'm going to raise it a little bit higher than it was before and then I'm going to still see if we have a drainage problem he's brought someone around to give a quote I'm waiting for someone I had to cancel I had a sick K but I have those things in place the point is I cannot do that work because they're going to be coming with all the pool equipment or the pool trucks whatever I can't have a newly ped driveway it's going to take some time to kill I I do have a question for you real quick just hypothetically assuming that if we were to say that if you were to remove all the appropriate concrete for plan number three and said you had to remove the concrete first then you would be allowed to have a permit granted to build the pool that you requesting is that something you would accept I would accept it but I feel it's further from my perspective this has dragged on for so long and it's all because of a i yes I made but you got a lot of concrete and you want a big pool but but the thing is I understand that I overpoured I went back and forth do I need one I'm happy to remediate but I happen to have a professional who's telling me how to help me Salvage my home so I I've already spent money and time on this the pool cost has gone up um so I I I will accept that but it's not the best it's not in my best interest I feel like I want to be able to do the work at the same time yeah I was going to say if you you was it that was what I was going to ask her if she would accept it she gave her answer and I got what I needed I mean reasonably speaking I think option three is probably what if I had to take a guess any of us would consider um I get the issue with the four kid I have five kids so I get the issue I get the issue with having multiple kids and multiple cars in the driveway and I understand how much of a pain in the butt it is to move cars out of the way but it is what it is right if you want a big pool you're going to have to people are going to have to back out of the driveway my question is I on option number three you have that triangle cut out on the side on the side that you said is where that concrete is there for the drainage issue that's yeah what you would stated why not cut out the driveway in front of the house that's 130 sare ft instead because that's where we're going to be parking the cars I'm sorry about that little tiny driveway that leads up because look this is what my kids use this is what I use this is I'm divorced this is where the dad the kid's dad drops him off I ask him to do something different he'll do the opposite so it's a well it's a well-used path for guess with it's the driveway's fault so that little tiny 130 ft yeah it I'm just I mean I I and I get it aesthetically it probably looks adorable and I get that but if I was having to pick between drainage issue and possibly like the issue of my house falling down I probably keep that number four and it's only a 6ot difference right so or even if you eliminate both you now you're only looking at 45 Square ft please don't think I Haven had the conversation with myself B the life out of my friend 100 million times over yeah I'm surprised he's not blocked me yet yeah so I I'm just that's I'm I'm I get the aesthetic and trust me I'm all about pretty houses I I've done a lot of work to my house but I'm just thinking if your drainage is the true issue why we can't cut this concrete I would cut that 130 ft in front of my house and then if you want all this to end a lot quicker and easy you cut both and you're only looking at 45 ft I I was on vacation um from April the 1st and so I in a hurry submitted this document to Malik beforehand and that version didn't have that extra 100 whatever feet being cut from the side it had the 130 squ fet being cut from the front path and I lost sleep over it because it's a functional path we use I'm I'm it has to be pretty but it has to be functional too I know but you also have this big driveway that you want to be completely 100% functional so it's it's checks and balances you got to pick the Lesser two evil it wasn't the drainage issue I would be cutting that aside yeah Al I'd have cut it already and that we wouldn't have had to have a variance meeting it would have been a no-brainer MH but I'm here not because of some it is something I created but the city created it too I'm willing to remediate on my part I don't know what more to do I don't when I talk to the pool lady we sit and we have discussions about what will still be a reasonable size pool yeah but if you cut that little driveway that I know probably looks cute and adorable and your kids use it and it's probably wonderful trust me I get it 100% I would recommend keeping that number four and that way you eliminate your potential of drainage issues and again like I If I had to take a guess all of us are probably thinking number three is your best option because you're only asking for 1% which is it shows not only did you make adjustments but it's reasonable option three then but I don't know how that works that's what I was going to ask still going to have to State what the hardship is and it can't be somebody's children or their cars or where they choose Park I well and I I do think I mean and I don't know if we're allowed to say there's a hardship because of potential drainage issues with the city like I said I don't know if we're allowed to say that I would ask to ask the City attorney but because and if that truly and if there's reports showing that it's going to be a foundational issue I would say that's the hardship for the 175 ft just I forgot what I was going to say I did it'll come back to me oh Sor I was going to say if um if the D I fully believe that even once I've raised the concrete which I plan to do when I'm cutting out the rest of it the problem's not going to get any better so I am I going to have to come back MH because someone's going to have to know that hey we fixed it but this continues to happen the reason I'm not questioning myself is because I'm not the drainage expert but he is yeah but do you have the documentation showing that her house is going to be in damaged if that piece of concrete is cut I can sign it behind my license and hang it and hand it to you and if you're a licensed professional I think the city would accept that I don't know I have just Malik or the City attorney but I'm the I'm the state engineer yeah I manage five counties for the Florida Department of Transportation so even if you're going to to make the determination that a drainage problem here is requiring her to have extra concrete and therefore that's the hardship you are still required to give the minimal variance necessary MH so if a 12x10 pole can fit there with no variance she can already have a pole with no variance the question is how big or how small is the minimal variance necessary just because somebody wants a 40t pole doesn't mean that's the minimal variance necessary is is the drainage issue not the hardship in itself cuz that's where all of this originates from that's what confuses me it it's related I we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for my property being flooded by poor drainage from the city if you cut both that front driveway and that longer piece on side number four you're looking at 45 square fet if I doing my math right Malik I'm going to leave that up to you but what would the minimum variant that and in my opinion that's the minimum 45 right she's cutting now she's cut if you look at option three right she's cutting away 1 2 3 4 and that driveway in the front of her house yeah I mean it I and then that reduces it now she's only over by 45 ft it went from what n 900 or something to 45 I can I can accept basically that the that the pool is I mean just cons that considering it's a hot tub an a pool and she need a deck around it that it's not necessarily that it may not it may be a fairly appropriate Siz pool considering uh the for the issue is mostly is that if the concrete's there the minimum I'd have to agree that cutting out the walkway would be it too I mean especially I can sort of I think that I'm trying to think of like some I I'm I I what I don't have information is if I mean I understand that basically all I think there's case law that all the families allowed to like live with you or something and then everybody should have if the car could go along with it by be making some type of like Federal interpretation of some existing Cas law to try to come up with something to make that possible and I'm not sure that I inversed enough in this um but I it does sound to me like if you want to keep the piece of the driveway where the cars are parked and we want them in very it does sound like that little one has to go um and all the concrete proposed and that would give you what was extra 45 it's 45 and I really think that's the minimum that we can approve cuz remember we have to look at it from that standard and I I know it's cute but so that's like the type of thing where I probably would vote Yes if that's what we were voting on yeah that's what in my opinion and correct me if I'm wrong but that's probably full concrete if it's an impervious surface like a gravel driveway she could replace that with like gravel or something yes please mhm staff has not reviewed these other options she's brought there's no reason we should be considering them but if you to work consider one you'd have to consider the one that is minimum so if there's one that says 0% that would be the minimum the one that says no variance if we're considering options that would be the one however that's the one I believe with the bonds but staff has not reviewed these additionally the reason why you submit one option because you're supposed to submit the minimum if if it was staff's Choice which is not I would have made a presentation based off of the minimum which is that 0% I would have done research based off of that 0% I would have talked to the City attorney whoever I need to talk to um as far as staff goes to see if this Bond situation is a is something possible and at that point I would have then during the review process would have told Miss Khan that hey you can't do this choose the next one so the point is not only have these not been reviewed but if it's a matter of minimum variance it would have been the one that has no variance so she wants to submit a new I know this isn't what you want she wants to submit a new one with just this 45 square feet for us to review at the next meeting she has that option if she chooses a continuance I do not know I think the City attorney would be um knowledgeable of that but I would also like to say that it's based off a hardship whether it's 45 200 300 500 if it does not actually meet a substantial amount of the findings of fact I would not recommend approval well I mean if we have a licensed person telling us that her house is going to fall down if she cuts off all of that concrete on the side but but what other concrete does she have available but that's the existing concrete is self created yeah but she put it there for the here's kind of where the issue I'm having too is is go back to the presentation you got we're not asking I I mean I think when the drainage issue I I don't think you should cut it off from the but there is the point is there is a whole lot of other concrete it's in the driveway which was a decision by the homeowner to pour and there is ample that can be removed cuz believe me I have the same situation I've got three cars I got a driveway this wide and if anything's in the garage it's you know it's the the car Rodeo to get everything in and out where it needs to be I totally get it but you know I can't expand my driveway either from the way my property is it's um you know and and I do understand everything with the kids but the fact is that there's just simply ample concrete there to remove to not even require a variance and not have to touch the part that's protecting your house cuz I agree with the engineer I had to spend more money than I ever wanted to on drainage at my house to avoid the very same scenario I completely get it but I where I'm having trouble is is the size of that driveway um as a homeowner I should have the choice and the choice that I have is eliminated because of a city created issue with drainage like I do understand what you're saying but we're all speaking as if I I have choices to make I don't well I don't I don't I feel like I'm being penalized by having to cut any other part apart from the part that is there now protecting the house from falling down by something that I did not create well and that's why I go back I don't think nobody I don't think anybody thinks you should cut the parts down I mean that's a choice if you want to go that way to save the driveway but my choice is for the city to remediate their issue so I can cut back what I need to cut back well and and and I you know what I completely understand that but that is not something that we can address at the board this is we're not the people that can do that and yeah this just so you know the engineers won't commit to anything they want that remediated now but they said well we we don't know maybe it'll be two years maybe it'll be three years but they won't commit to anything so as you know if you've had drainage issues if I cut that slab what's it say 2 years 3 years they still haven't done it and that's not even knowing what damage will be causing those two to three years and and you know that's that's the hard part with for me and I'm speaking for me there's other people on the board so you're not you're not you know but the you know the hard part that I have is is that you know yes I understand that government moves slow I spent a very long time working for the government uh you know on and off and years in the milit I know how slow things go I know how frustrating it is uh but when you come to this board you're asking for a variance based on the hardship of the property not on the lack of action or the perceived lack of action of the city is it on the property it say a hardship my proper but but but here's the other part is the hardship is not preventing it's not preventing you from using it as design a pool is something that's nice to have you can have the 123 foot sorry if I remember the pool uh without making any changes but a pool is not something that's that's a guaranteed right under the city I mean correct me if I'm wrong please but I I mean my understanding is a pool is something you can have but it's not necessarily required to make use of the property as zoned designed accessory structures are not a right by land in the city of Temple Terrace I don't know if there's other jurisdictions but you're ow owed reasonable use of your land and that is a single family hone on Ron uh single family zoning District that is what she has with a very large driveway with a very sufficient garage and a twostory home so as far as we're talking about reasonable use of land it's more than reasonable and and any variance you grant is permanent it runs with the land so when the kids are all long gone often living in their own homes and somebody else is living here it will still be the same so that's why hardship is not based on the wants or needs even of the person who's asking or their family as a rebuttal I mean uh Mr Sherman said that this 47.5 lot coverage might get revised you know it's this is the only like jurisdiction that has that Ritman Stone and they defending it very vigorously I mean I don't I can tell you St Petersburg also has a lot coverage requirements and you have to seek variances if you want to exceed that so we're not the only ones yeah yeah but but I'm pretty sure those variances are you know if you if you give them mitigation strategies they probably like you know fly through like I said we're going to like offset the adverse impact we can't consider that about if other jurisdictions have these experiences that's just it's not within our criteria what we're allowed to consider if I mean I'm not trying to throw shade on anybody but if if if if if 0% variance is the option what is the point in having this board well I I the answer to that is is there are there are things and I that we have granted uh because the property has something that stops IT from making reasonable use of and that is the key words you know if you're designed for a single Family Home and there's something with the property that you cannot build a reasonable size single family home then that's what we're here for we can go through and say you know that yeah we're going to make an adjustment and we have done that uh because and I mean some of them have that you know they put these Lots out and then somebody gets the one at the end that's shaped like you know five trapezoids and some kind of a you know a very weird thing and there's just simply no way to put a home that meets the minimum square footage requirements on the property that's an example of a hardship that's not anything that anybody can do about the the you know I believe me I understand you want to pull I I I I understand everything you're saying and and if I could May a you know wave a magic wand and make the law change and and do that I would do it for you I I I really want to but we can't we have to look for the the hardship is not because you want it I mean and that's it's the hardship has to come from the fact that you can't do something that the land is supposed to allow you to do and a pool does not fall into that category of a reasonable use I mean there's no restrictions from it but we can't give it to you because it's without a hardship City can just keep flooding my property and I just have to suck it up that's really what we're talking about it's because the city is in action that is creating have you won the city council that's was going mean exactly have you talked to the city council because that's that's the people that can make this change we can't I'm not sure the city flooded the proper either I think that God flooded your property what the structure of the roads the poor drainage system I understand what you're saying but so you know I'm I'm summarizing but it's something that could be remediated but there's no they won't commit to any kind of a timeline for me but unfortunately we can't just because the city won't do what you think they're supposed to do or even if they're supposed to do it and they just haven't done it whatever the reason we can't Grant a variance for that that's not a hardship that's a I mean it's a nightmare I won't disagree with with you on that you know I I have no idea and I have no dog in this fight you know with what's going on between you and the city but that's not a hardship and that's what we're struggling with the one thing I can say though is that I where is basically what triggered an idea in my mind where I had no research about this is there may be some case law that says you have to have the appropriate numbers of cars to fit in the driveway there actually that could exist somewhere I don't really know I I'm almost wondering if that since we've never discussed that before through this and I've never researched that that that's actually possible that it might that I like you might have been on to something with that but as to that's the only thing I can think of but the walk that doesn't fix the walk the walkway from the road that I don't see why that shouldn't be cut out I mean it has like that's not I can put gravel on right I I I mean I'm trying to think if I if we were but that just basically I I can't see how even at considering the fact that that as as she pointed Tony point out is you could remove the walkway we're down to if you got rid of that you add basically the variance to like a micro variance 45t yeah and that's like basically something where it's easy it makes that I I'm kind of thinking that might be the minimum variance if assuming that I I mean it's it's I'm basically we're entertaining basically the 20x 40 foot is pull is this is tough but I'm saying that even this isn't the minimum if that walkway is there and I'm not even sure the car is parked on the driveway I'm I'm suspicious thinking about like some of this like civil rights type case law there could be through like the Warren era there could be something about that without could have come up somewhere in some jurisdiction and it might be helpful but I'm not really sure um I don't want to prolong the process it's gone on for long enough I'm already you know in the red because pull prices have gone up I mean the only I mean looking at this if you're cutting off again option three if you're cutting off 1 2 3 and four if you want to leave your your walkway to from the street you can cut off that 2011 extra square feet in the green and that it gives you 0% variance plus some well it would just have to marry up yeah you know it would have to marry and it I mean it wouldn't look fabulous but it would it's an option which would give you you wouldn't need a variance you wouldn't even have to come here today and I think about resell again I get it and I could could and in due time if you can go to city council get them to say yes we're going to fix this but we can't give you a timeline you can come back here and you can do a variance to maybe put some concrete back down to protect your house if I totally I again I get it but I'm just saying that 2011 sare ft and if you want it to marry up you leave the section four and you cut off the driveway in the front and then you're not looking at a variance at all you don't even need us you don't need our going to increase the size of the original pool and you can you can increase it back to no but you could if you if you get rid of 1 2 3 and four and that 201 one you could take it back to that big original size and leave your driveway your walkway to the front of the house and you wouldn't need any of us unless you want to come back and see us again kind of like having adult conversation I know no I'm just I mean there are options it they're just not fun ones you know and I get the aesthetic part so I we get that but you could go to the council I would even no matter what happens here today I would recommend you go to city council and try to fight that battle I just yeah a side note you know I live on St Augustine they put a water line MH you know through my yard then they kind of jog around came the road half that roads dug up and half the speed you know bump it's like you know dug up so when you're riding a car it's like you know riding and kind of being on one side yeah it's been like that for two years so good luck to miss Khan to have her issue addressed but if you could get a certif a letter from city council saying yes this is our issue we're going to fix it you could come back here and ask for variance for more concrete and I know that's not what you want I know you want to just keep it and leave it but Grand kid by CH my life today I I totally get it and if you want to go backwards and go to city council first and then come back here and say okay city council said that you could do that too but that's going to grandkids moving forward I know and you also could get rid of concrete ASAP and build your pool like as soon as you're done yeah without us I could also dump my kids and I wouldn't need to I don't know how they' feel about that so oh okay everybody can breathe for a moment but uh so I mean I I I think you've got a general idea where the board is um you know I do think that if you want us to consider option three I think that the city needs a chance to review that I I I understand that they only allowed you to submit one but if that's if you want if that's the one you want I do I would recommend we ask you ask for a continuance in that we have the city a chance to review it um you know but I think you've gotten you know a lot of people here that have said there you know there are ways for you to do this that you don't need us um you know and I realize that's not exactly what you want to do and but it's not asking you to damage your property it's not asking you to permanently change your property U you know it gives you the ability to go back and fight City Hall so to speak U if that's where you want to do that um no no I understand I I understand it I I we've all been there been our own way we've all been there at one point or another and even everybody that works for the city has been there before so they I mean everybody gets it at a personal level but uh you know I want to see you pool I want to see you have you pool I want kids to enjoy the pool I want them to be able to park but you know there's just this board I don't think there's anything else we can do for you I mean you got an extremely talented architect that's I'm sorry that's Stephanie Stephanie sorry I said that and as soon as I said like you're not we got a great sorry like it's yeah she's the The Architects but still you got it I mean that's uh you know so there's there's definitely options that are going to let you do what you want I realize they're not perfect I realize they're not everything you want but they're there and I I say this you know in a smile on my face that you don't need us and the city's going to give you a permit I mean if you do that um I think you fight day we said we were going to give you a permit I don't know ask him that but well okay you're going to be a more eligible for permit than you are today does that get me out does that get me out of the hot water yeah the uh well they're probably yeah they're probably not just going to hand it but yes it it certainly put you within the case to get the permid can I just say yeah please could and I don't know Pam if this is a question for you or Malik but could she ask for a continuous to think about her options and then if she needs to come back to us come back to us and if she doesn't she doesn't I don't know how that works yes her choices are is to go forward and have you vote on it today withdraw it or she can ask for a continuance H just out of curiosity so for plans that weren't reviewed and only seen by the board essentially she can still ask for a continuance on this matter she's that would ask for a continuance so you could review it and then come back and give your report based on her new request so if another plan is proposed another set of options what do I do then to prevent this happening I just want to make sure I I do the right process you mean this happening again in another proposal let's say somehow there's two more options in addition to option three I just want to know for my owners I guess the board can say this is the last continuance in this matter okay thank you I I just want to say to that though I presented all of this to Malik on maybe it was I don't know at the end of March maybe the last two days before I went on vacation I just think it's very un fair that we are here now on May the 23rd almost 2 months later and he's able to sit on it and the delay the only person it affects is me it's not fair him and I aren't allowed to get together on this to find out what you told him though that's the only thing like this is my first time seeing the he could have taken St if I'm presenting the options he could have taken it to his staff I'm just saying as in general as a human being who's already dragging this out for so long it just seems like the process is only there to create problems it's not it's not you know you have to come you have to come and present this is what this is my option you don't come in and say Here's three and I want to come forward with all of them I'm trying to be flexible minimum variance I'm trying to be flexible I'm willing to put money down you know and hold down that's how flexible I'm willing to be I'm just saying it's just wasted two months but but you should have come forward with the least requested one and we would have moved on and we would have discussed that one here today not come in with one two and three but just three I don't want it to drag on any longer than it's dragged on I'm allowed as a as a human being I'm allowed to you know ask for people to have that consideration I'm trying to be as flexible as possible I I have a question for are we allowed to vote on option three hypothetically if we are we is that with our discretion to because that's what I um my question that way she wouldn't have to come back you know no we were like per to you could however the problem with that is then with staff being considered an expert and they're here is an expert just like the engineer here is an expert the city's expert has not had a chance to make a presentation regarding option number three so you would not have the benefit of that may I look at option number three and see if I need time to review it I mean Mr Malik has already had a minute to review um option two he's look he's taking a look at three right now let him let him let him option three is just um more is being cut and it's the walkway correct correct it's the there there's literally an arrow that says remove uh then hold on then that's literally what option three says an arrow shown here to to remove I did not write okay sorry what's the original I don't know that was the one given to me just now by the applicant Okay so this is it's actually the side this side driveway is being cut back yeah it gets closer to the house and this would be a cut without drainage issues no there will be drainage issues the the drain isues won't stop yeah so you take that I I'll say I'll say this instead cuz up to the board if I need to review this or not out of principle she has enough concrete on her lot to cut to build the pool she wants whatever number I am given I am simply changing numbers on my presentation to be frank in my staff report to be frank the findings of fact do not change besides the actual metric in the wording of reduction so if we push this further for her which will be a det to her and ultimately more work for me and we do have quite a bit you get paid I don't nice you have a house I don't um it will happen it will happen yep the pool will happen as well as long as you cut the concrete so that is up to the board we can do this a third time but I promise you you will be seeing a very similar presentation with the exact same findings of fact so you're saying that based on your your expertise uh no no uh no hardship exists yes that's actually what I said the first time that's what I'm saying the second time regarding regarding option three I should be more specific regarding option three no hardship exists because if it's a reduction in loot coverage that she's willing to cut and there's still more because there's more driveway that's able to be cut for to have her pool without the need for a variance there is no justification for a hardship may I ask a question yes go ahead um two questions one if she gets something from the city saying yes this is the city's fault is it a hardship or no I cannot speak to that pam pam do I'm just wondering if the city were to say yes this is our city engineering would that be a hardship I don't know that's why as I said it may be a hardship but that's only part of your chore you still need to look at minimum variance necessary and the extra parking here is as big as the entire pool agre so there is a driveway there but now there's like side driveway there which apparently is not being reduced at all and if that were gone then all of her drainage things could remain her front walkway could remain you just have to stack cars while the kids are still there if all children are given cars agree so her options are essentially for us to vote on option three now because you're saying that AR option two because option two has the same outcome of option three but I reviewed in full option two or she could she could go to city council try to get something to make it a hardship or she could just cut off everything and not have to need any of us I recommend she Advocates with her city council the elected officials of this jurisdiction for her concern um if not I advocate to remove concrete in order to have repol because I do not see a hardship and if it's removed she doesn't need us or me yes okay the Cent get all these look like it's not a converging process it's just like you know it's just like bureaucracy at like at its finest you know well I am going to say we are um I want the board to have all the questions but we're I I I think we're starting to get to the point where we're kind of talking around in circles a bit um the client has to have the last well I I I got that I got that one but that's what I'm trying to get to so um is there does anybody have any well we got the city back do anybody have any questions for the city I just wanted to okay um I need to ask did you get did you get sworn in no I didn't okay good question you sarir the testimony or evidence you're about to give or present is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do and and would you please state your name for the record hi I'm Miranda and I am the city planner I just wanted to talk about options and um it's it's standard practice for an applicant no matter if it's a variance a site plan rezoning a plan development to only present one option the board either approve or deny that option or ask for continuance to look at it the reason wise it takes staff we have many projects going on but uh we also have to involve other divisions give their review and they only review one plan staff reviews an analysis of one plan so there's a reason why only option two was brought to you and why we only do one option at a time makes things confusing and we also have to prepare in case you do approve variances or whatever other plans we do have to prepare in case you want to approve it propose conditions for that plan with option three and option one we haven't even prepared conditions for your consideration for those two options so I would advise not considering option three or option one unless she wants to continue thank you thank you you know as a rort to that you know when we design Bridges we just don't say like this is what it's going to be we take input from probably 500 sources including like figuring out if you know an eagle Eagle is going to drop eggs on a nest somewhere so we look at we look at it holistically we don't look at it with blinkers on the eyes you know you know and that's you know it's you got to have some Flex for the client and she's she's just being strung out for over 3 months on this and if he's already looked at option b which offered 413 ft I don't know the number off the top of my head 45 is going to be lesser so it's going to be less of a risk all right I'm so I'm going to uh I do the applicant you do have the final word um which I'm going to see if anybody has any more questions on the board before we get I want before we get to that does anybody have any more questions no okay all right then I'm going to you have five minutes uh you have the final word if there anything you in light of all the comments that you've heard I just it's just it's really unfortunate that this is the process not about you guys but really with the city but they can do what they want and you know as a law-abiding citizen I get screwed so that's all right so I I will ask this before we go and um close the hearing and everything um um let's can keep me can I if I close the hearing can we still do the continuous or does that have to be done before we close it no you need to well you can you can close it to any discussion more or less and then but you should decide whether the applicant wants a continuance or whether she wants you to just vote right I just needed to make sure I didn't want to do this in the wrong order that was uh okay so I can go ahead so okay with that if there no further comments uh from the board of variants I hereby close the public hearing and the board may discuss the application uh before we go to that I will ask you you know is I think you've had your I think you've had the options do you want to ask for a continuance now I will say this to the to the to the things first of all this board only meets once a month so that's part of the delay second and we I believe if you remember in March we discussed is we were going to have a problem in April with Quorum because of the date so April was that's on us as the board we simply did not have enough available um the next meeting I it would be sometime third week or so of June I don't have the date for no no June meeting okay um we wouldn't have enough time because another another legal ad would have to be put out another um I think you need your mic on I'm getting the like okay another legal ad would be put out so we wouldn't have enough time to get that legal ad in that deadline is already passed so and then the July meeting we wouldn't be able to do because of the city the planner not being available and then the attorney is not being available so it would have to be August so that's that's the unfortunate way we have to deal with so it would be August um you know if you want to come back you can you we can go ahead and I mean we can go ahead and vote um or you can withdraw the application I'll I'll still continue just because I need some time to think about everything and and and I will say if you with some of the things that have been suggested here you don't have to come back here if you could so I mean just to make sure you've gone that so yeah I could say where basically at least where my brain is gone um the big thing I see though is the red herring here is the walkway is the big extra thing that is where I mean I I that's what makes it the toughest I think on me is seeing that we just have extra concrete I don't have one of those in my house the little extra walkway so um but there's that I mean I think though basically your minimum variance is more like 0.5% if it even exists it's then 1% what is what is I'm not very good at doing math in my head what is 45 sare ft over 17442 ft I I what I see is there more concrete that's that can that the walkways can go though cuz it goes out to the road and people actually walk in from the drive way so that's kind of like where basically I'm seeing extra concrete as well as you know the parking I mean so um we go yeah too much for let me ask this would you know would you like us to vote on a continuance oh on a continu yes yes yeah no no I'm sorry yeah two key words there at the end three times I think can I just ask oh just so you know the date's going to be August 2 August 22nd okay Pam if she decides to withdraw between now and August 22nd she would not have to come back here to withdraw correct she could just withdraw with the like Malik off yes okay ladies and gentlemen I just finally figured out how to run my calculator on the 45 Square ft comes out 26% M okay well then there and that the amount of runoff that you're going to get from 45 Square ft will be enough to draw in a squirrel I understand but we're we're still confined to the the rules and laws and everything as they exist today um and I could say is she could get less parking and less pool if that's what we're going to come down to we're kind of just in that predicament where if there's a variance it's what's really the minimum um so we'd have to accept that that's the pool size that's appropriate for this house and I guess that the pool belongs there or something but but um anyways I see Point well I was going to say the the applicant has asked for a continuance to August 22nd do I have a motion so moved so moved a second I would just say for me a second I think we should say it's going to be the final continuance next time if we're going to do that okay would you like to amend your motion can do that I can do that M I would like to M my motion to um change it to being final continuance um for this particular variance request do I have a second I have a second all in favor say I I I any opposed okay then you have your final continuance to August 22nd um I I I really hope you can figure it out I I really sincerely do I hope you get your pool and I hope it's a fantastic summer I really do thank you thank appreciate it all right is new business is there any new matter that any board member would like to raise I do have one but um I will wait until see if anybody has anything I just have one question um there's alternates correct how many alternates do we have oh yeah well I'm just alternate at the moment and right now you're our only legal per City attorney for the city no no we have two I'm just I mean cuz I'm I'm trying to be ethical here and I mean it doesn't seem fair to certain people to like have to they're waiting for May all the way to August is there anything we could do to well both both of our city attorneys are at a conference so that can't be that can't be helped and our and our planner has plans already so and he's the one who's in charge of this one and however I have proposed if we could possibly find another date on the calendar July that we can have that we can that this room is not being used for something else I'm I'm certainly open to that but you all will have to agree on a date I'm flexible in June I mean July just the first three weeks only latter part of July I'll be out of the country I'm and I I know that it takes time to like put things in the I'm just trying to think of like as someone who's trying to do delays do can cost a significant amount of money to the home can change the meeting date we do not have to meet on that specific day or not meet is that correct correct if there's a need I'm I'm pretty flexible so just I don't think is there like it's not just that we have to look at the calendar because there are numerous meetings that happen in this room yeah every month so I have to make sure that there is a day where everybody is available I'm just think can we put a protocol in place where if it's going to be like more than just one month skip that we like do a poll or something and see what other dates are available so we're not sking two months in a row we tried that with this one before this this meeting happened yeah well attorney reach I'm just I you know I know it can cause the homeowners money in any situation with any of these variances and I just don't I completely understand and I and I really don't want to try to get this back in my head three months from now he it still s i mean a month is long enough sometimes but can you give us some proposed dates that we could do this in July and just see let's see who's available the motion T has already been made so can we change that motion can we put a motion to notify made in front of the in front of the applicant well the thing is if she chooses if we can come up with a date in July we can let her know that that's the date available if she doesn't want to take that and she'd rather wait till August she can do that too and I'm thinking more like longterm not just for the specific scenario like we're skipping 2 months and like I said that can cause for anybody who files a variant money for them so like I was just wondering if there was anything in place if there's already something and you already tried thank you I was just wondering no I yeah cuz I feel like last year we did this over the summer too I don't think we met over the summer last summer either because of vacations and everything so well I think I think we did uh go through and talk about we would meet once every 3 months even if there wasn't a case simply to review and not let this get you guys didn't meet for so long because we had no variances brought to us I just don't remember yes normally skip months um this is this is different because it's a continuance so we didn't when we have these continuances we don't meet the deadline for yeah our well I personally did a variance here and I had to wait 3 months so I am just and I think that yours was a little bit different too um but yeah yeah I'm just try looking at the calendar one more time for July and see if there's anything within the first three weeks yeah that's and and I know we get the of July holiday in there too hope there's a lot going on makes it difficult so if we can find something then the clerk will send you the dates and see if we can get a quorum for that date and I'm going to unfortunately and I I I may throw another kink in this cuz I don't know what the exact date is but what I was going to bring up if you don't mind me I don't want to interrupt you no I want just wanted to so what I was going to bring up is that all of our terms expire in August although I don't know what date that is if it's before or after the August 22nd meeting before I believe it's before is the 17th or 18th I believe well I can I can remember the 17th cuz that's my birthday but uh then hopefully you'll you'll apply to be reappointed well and that's what I was going to say is that the business I was bringing up um is that all of our terms are going to expire uh so we will be getting applications at some point here in the next few days or a couple of weeks um to reapply I certainly hope everybody does reapply because I enjoy working with you but um you do need to reapply or you won't be at the August meeting so will you send us that information yes yeah so you know and then that will be of course whether we come back or not we'll be up to the city you know the city council but uh that is forthcoming so I do hope everybody applies and I believe we're still we'll see if anybody else does if we have enough for alternates or if we're going to have to try to put that together again so um I forgot that's what I had with that but yes that's the other thing that's we don't get reappointed we may not have to worry about August 22nd we may not be here that is true all right is there any other new business all right any old business any old business anybody would like to bring up I did want to say that we could have invited Mr Kravitz back up here because because now that that issue is over if he wants if he has any new business old business or anything else you want to come up and discuss civilian guys I just realized he was hiding back over I'm sorry and I did too I totally it's okay all right so the next meeting of the board of adjustment will is now officially scheduled for August 22nd 2024 at 6: pm. if needed um and if we're still here so if not somebody else will be sitting here doing this um you know I appreciate you checking into the July dates and then said so is there any other bids to be brought before the board the chair will entertain a motion to adjourn so go move and second second all right any everybody moved any let me try this again is there anybody object to the journey object I want to hang out you want to hang out okay I retract all in favor say I all right thank you that concludes this meeting [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]